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HighAccuracyRTKPositionswiththeLEA6
usingRTCMviaNTRIP
PostedbySteveZeetsonAugust1,2012at8:24aminGPS
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Iwasjustthinking...
HasanyonelookingintorealtimecorrectingtheLEA6(orotherDIYDronesGPS)usingRTCMvia
InternetProtocol(NTRIP).I'massumingyouwouldjustneedtohaveacellularmodem(orphone)on
thecopterconnectedtotheinternet,receivingtheRTCMdataandpassingitalongtotheGPSunit.I
checkedtheUBloxwebsiteanditsaystheLEA6hasaninterfacefortheRTCMprotocol
(http://www.ublox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/LEA6N_ProductS...).Manystate'snow
offerarealtimeGNSSnetworkviaNTRIP,somearefreesubscriptionswhileothersarepaid
subscriptions.
I'mnotaprogrammersoI'munsurewhatitwouldrequireonthatendtomakeitwork.
HereissomeexamplecodeIfoundfor.NET(http://www.sharpgis.net/post/2005/01/21/Differential
GPSusingRTCM...)
Anythoughts?

Steve
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PermalinkReplybyBarrettAmesonAugust1,2012at10:15am
WhatIwouldhavegiventoknowaboutthisstuff3yearsago...
Definitelylooksfeasible.Onmylistofthingstotestout.FirstIneedtobuyaplane...
I'dbewillingtowritethesoftwareifsomeoneelsefurnishesthebird.
Reply

PermalinkReplybyJakeStewonAugust1,2012at1:13pm
Whyusethis?SamedatacomesfromWAAS.Whynotmakesurethat'sworkingfirst?
Idon'tthinkthat'sevencurrentlyenabledintheMTGPSontheAPM.
Reply

PermalinkReplybySteveZeetsonAugust1,2012at1:38pm
Jake,
WAASisaWideAreaDifferentialGlobalPositioningSystem(DGPS)orSBAS(Satellite
BasedAugmentationSystem).Youtypicallywillsee1mlaterallyand1.5mvertically
accuratepositions,bestcase.
WhatI'mtalkingaboutisaDGPSthatusesanetworkoffixed,groundbasedreference
stations.Thereferencestationsthatarebroadcastingcorrectionshavebeensettommaccurate
positions.Youcanget1cmlaterallyand2cmverticallyaccuratepositions,bestcase.

IhaveusedtheserviceinmyareaandIknowthatitsupportsbothsinglefrequencyanddual
frequencyreceivers.Ihaveonlyconnectedadualfrequencyreceivertothenetworkandwould
liketoseeifasinglefrequencyreceiver(liketheLEA6)wouldworkandwhatkindof
accuraciesyoucouldget.However,Idon'thavethesoftwaretomaketheconnection.
Reply

PermalinkReplybyJakeStewonAugust1,2012at1:52pm
Whatyou'retalkingaboutisessentiallythesamesystemasfarasIunderstand.TheWAAS
getsit'sdatafromthesamegroundbasedreferencestations.
TheionosphereisthemainsourceofGPSerror.Groundbasedreferencestationstrackthis
errorandsendthecorrectiondatatothesatellites.Thesatellitesthensendthisdataoutintheir
signals.That'scalledWAAS.
Theonlydifferenceinthesystemyou'redescribingisthatthedataisarrivingfromtheinternet
ratherthanovertheGPSsatellitesignals.That'swhyI'mnotunderstandingwhatthepointis.
HowisusingtheinternetbetterthanusingtheWAASsatellitesignals?
Therehastobesomereasonorpeoplewouldn'tbedoingit.ButIthinkthemainreasonisthat
peoplehavetheirownreferencestationsthatareclosertowherethey'reoperatingratherthan
usingthepublicWAASreferencestations,whichmightbefurtherawayfromtheirlocation,
updateslower,orhavesomeotherlimitations.
SoIcanseewhyyoumightwanttodosomethinglikethisifyouwantyourownreference
station.WhynotjustuseaGPSatyourGCS?Youcouldcorrectonceatacertainreference
point,thenmoveyourstationtotheoperatinglocationandthenusedriftcorrectionfromthere.
Youwouldn'tneedtheinternettobeinvolvedtodosomethinglikethat.
Reply

PermalinkReplybySteveZeetsonAugust1,2012at2:35pm
TheWAASgroundbasednetworkiscomposedofabout20orsoreferencestationsinthe
CONUS.ThenetworksI'mtalkingaboutarecomposedofagridofreferencestationsspaced
every50km,orso,aroundeachstate(thathasone).TheoneI'veusedhasaround80reference
stationsspreadthroughoutthestateandalsoshareswiththestationsfortheborderingstate's
networks.Usingadensegridlikethis,willlowertheionosphereerroreffectsdramatically.
YoucoulduseaGPS"basestation"atyourGCS,butyouwouldneeditpreciselysetupona
knownpointwithahighlyaccuratehorizontalandverticalpositionalreadyestablished(ifyou
wantittobeaccurate).BeingthattherearealreadysomanyContinuouslyOperatingReference
Stations(CORS)NetworksaroundtheCONUS,whynottapintothose.Thenyoudon'tneedto
haveasecondGPSandaknownpointtosetupover.
Reply

PermalinkReplybyJakeStewonAugust1,2012at3:15pm
Thanksfortheexplanation.Iwonderwhythesestationsaren'tincorporatedintotheWAAS
network?Maybetherejustisn'tenoughbandwidthonthesatsignalstodomorethanafew
dozenpoints.
Soundslikeyouhavesomegoodideas,Ijustdon'tusuallyhaveinternetaccesswhereIfly.I'd
bemoreinterestedinapersonalreferencetypesetup.Idon'tthinkitshouldbethathardtofind
goodreferencepoints,especiallyifyouhadmappedyourflyingareaandreferencedittogoogle
earth.Iwouldthinkitwouldbeprettyeasyto"zero"yourgpsataknownpoint,movetothe
actualareayouwanttooperatefrom,thencorrectforanyfurtherdrift.
Witha$30GPSunitforyourGCSyoucouldsavethe$30/monthdataplanforthecellphone
internetservice.Justanidea.
Doyouhaveanylinkstoinfoonthesereferencestationnetworks?I'mcurioustoseeifthere's
anyinmyarea.
Reply

PermalinkReplybySteveZeetsonAugust1,2012at5:10pm
Jake,
TheWAASnetworkissetupspecificallyfortheFAAandtheywanttomakesureitis99.999%
reliablesowhenyou'relandinganairplane,youdon'tloseyourcorrections.Theyareonly
guaranteedaccurateto7.6maccuracy(horizontalandvertical)atthe95%confidencelevel,
whichisjustfinetolandaplane.
ThenetworksI'mtalkingaboutaresetupbyeitherFederal,State,City,orprivateentitiesand
arenotasreliable(theyarestillfunctional99%ofthetime).But,theyaremuchmoredense
andmuchmoreaccuratewhenyoureceivecorrectionsandaretypicallyguaranteedtocm
accuracy(horizontalandvertical)atthe95%confidencelevel.
GoogleEarthisnotveryaccurate.Maybeonlyafewmetersatbestinmostplaces.Iwould
liketoseea10cmorbetteraccurateGNSSsolutionforthecopters.WhichiswhyIwas
wonderingabouttheRTCMviaNTRIPcorrections.Mostpeoplehaveadatapackagewith
theirphoneandcoulduseitfortheinternetconnection.
IwouldalsoliketoseetheDGPSsolutionusingtheGCSasyoustate(especiallyinareas
wherecellularreceptionislimited).Ihaveusedthattypeofsetupwithdualfrequency
receiversanditworksgreat,cmaccurateaswell.Theproblemisalwaysfindingahighly
accurate(afewcm'sorbetter)pointtouseasareferenceforthereceivers.Ifyouhaveadual
frequency(prettyexpensive)receiver,oronethatcanstoreaRINEXfile,thanyoucancollect
15minutes(ormore)ofdataandpostprocessthecoordinatestowithinafewcm'susingthe
NGSOPUSRSonlineprogram(http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/OPUS/).Thenyoucanhavea
highlyaccuratepointanywhereintheCONUS.Otherwise,highlyaccuratepointsarehardto

comebyinmostlocations.
HereisalinktotheCORSstationsthatareregistered(orBlueBooked)withtheNGS(National
GeodeticSurvey)http://geodesy.noaa.gov/CORS/GoogleMap/CORS.shtml.Asyoucansee,it
isaprettydensenetwork.Typically,iftherearealotofCORSstationsinastate,thenthey
havesomekindofRTN(realtimenetwork)setupwhereyoucanreceivecorrections(eithervia
NTRIPorradio).Sometimestheyareownedbypublicorprivateentitiesandsometimesthey
haveafeeassociatedwiththem.
Reply

PermalinkReplybyJakeStewonAugust1,2012at8:00pm
Soundslikeagreatidea!ThemoreaccurateyoucangetyourGPSthemorethingsyoucanuse
itfor.
IwonderifyoucoulduseacheapSDRtopickupradiocorrectionsignals?I'vebeenlookingat
gettingonetopickupADSBsignals.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320880882036?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_...
Ican'tseemtofindanyinfoonradiotransmissionthough,somaybetheinternetistheonly
sourceforthisdata.
Nearestsiteisabout8kmawayfromme.Iwonderhowmuchhelpthatwouldprovide?
I'mnotreallyconcernedwithcmaccuracy.Mymainconcernisthatthegoogleearthimagery
locationandmyGPSlocationmatchesup,andI'dbeveryhappywith1mresolution.1foot
accuracywouldenablejustabouteveryuseIcanthinkof.
Reply

PermalinkReplybySteveZeetsonAugust2,2012at7:37am
Yes,GPSaccuracyisimportant.
I'mnotsureaboutwhatallcanbeusedtopickupthesignals.Idoknowthattheytypically
broadcastinthe450470MHzrange.Allyouneedistheexactfrequencytheyarebroadcasting
andthenyoushouldbeabletoreceivethem,withtherighthardware/softwaresetup.
8kmisn'ttoofar.Typically(iftheyuseradios)thesignalwillcarryforabout10km,depending
ontheterrainandthewattageofthebroadcastingradio.
TheissueyoumighthavewithgoogleearthimageryisthatonceyougetanaccurateGPS,
you'llrealizethatgoogleearthimageryisn'talwaysthataccurateandyoucan'tmatchit.
DoyouknowanyonewhoisworkingongettingtheGPSataGCSworkingwiththeGPSinthe

copter?I'dbegladtohelptestitoutorhelpinanyotherwayIcan.
Reply

PermalinkReplybyJakeStewonAugust2,2012at8:21am
I'mnotawarethatanyoneisworkingonaGPScorrectionscheme.The"followme"featureis
coordinatingtwoGPSlocationsthough,Ithink.

PermalinkReplybyKevinSchumacheronAugust2,2012at9:44am
Iwouldlovetogetrealtime<10cmaccuracy.
Anotheroptionwouldbeusingsomepostprocessing.IsthereawaytologtherawGPS
observationsintheAPM2withLEA6,andpostprocess(RTKLIB)withbasestationdata.
Thenupdatethelogfilewiththecorrectedinformation?
Iwouldbehappywitheitherprocess.
Reply

PermalinkReplybySteveZeetsonAugust2,2012at11:44am
Iagree,theabilitytopostprocesswouldbeagreatstart.Realtimecorrections,eitherthough
theinternetorviaradiolinktoanotherreceiver,wouldbethebest.
Nowifwecangetsomeonewhoknowshowtowritethecodeandmakeitallhappen.
DoesDIYDroneshaveaGPSsoftwaredeveloperintheircrew?
Reply

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