Doyle RUD Trial Transcript Vol 5

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REPORTER'S RECORD
CASE NO. 09-14-00458-CR & 09-14-00461-CR
CAUSE NO. 12-03-02583-CR & 12-03-0258545
VOLUME 5 OF 11 VOLUMES
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) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
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) MONTGOMERY COUNTY, TEXAS
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) 359TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
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THE STATE OF TEXAS
VS.
SYBIL DOYLE AND ROBERTA

MARGARET COOK
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JURY TRIAL
April 1, 2014
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On April 1st, 2014, the following proceedings
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came on to be heard in the above-entitled and numbered cause
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before the Honorable John Stevens, Judge Presiding, 359th
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District Court, held in Conroe, Montgomery County, Texas.
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Proceedings reported by machine shorthand and

computer-aided transcription.
KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

281-723-9090
APPEARANCES
FOR THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL:
Mr. David Glickler

Assistant Attorney General
ATTORNEY GENERAL OF TEXAS
P.O. Box 12548
Austin, Texas 78711-2548
Tel: (512) 463-3088
Fax: (512) 370-9728
david.glickler@texasattorneygeneral.gov
SBN: 00787549
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Mr. Jonathan White

Assistant Attorney General
ATTORNEY GENERAL OF TEXAS
P.O. Box 12548
Austin, Texas 78711-2548
Tel: (512) 463-3088
Fax: (512) 370-9728
jonathan.white@texasattorneygeneral.gov
SBN: 24054475
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FOR THE DEFENDANT:
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Mr. Jarrod Walker

LAW OFFICES OF JARROD WALKER
300 W. Davis Street
Conroe, Texas 77301
Tel: (936) 539-3335
Fax: (936) 756-7262
jarrodwalker@msn.com
SBN: 00788601
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281-723-9090
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CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX
By the Court.............................................
PAGE
6
FOR THE STATE:

STILLWELL, JAMES
Direct by Mr. White.........................
Voir Dire by Mr. Walker.....................
Direct by Mr. White (Continued).............
Cross by Mr. Walker.........................
Redirect by Mr. White.......................
Recross by Mr. Walker.......................
6
27
28
35
36
65
99
111
McDUFFEE, RICHARD
Direct by Mr. Walker (Continued)............
113
127
128
139
171
175
State rests............................................
176
Motion for Directed Verdict by Defense.................
176
Court's Ruling on Motion for Directed Verdict..........
177
FOR THE DEFENDANT:

GOEDDERTZ, PETER
Direct by Mr. Walker........................
Cross by Mr. Glickler.......................
Redirect by Mr. Walker......................
Recross by Mr. Glickler.....................
177
189
206
207
GRANT, PHIL
Cross by Mr. White..........................
Recross by Mr. White........................
Further Redirect by Mr. Walker..............

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ALPHABETICAL INDEX
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PAGE
GOEDDERTZ, PETER
Cross by Mr. Glickler.......................
Recross by Mr. Glickler.....................
177
189
206
207
GRANT, PHIL
Cross by Mr. White..........................
Recross by Mr. White........................
Further Redirect by Mr. Walker..............
209
223
229
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McDUFFEE, RICHARD
Direct by Mr. Walker (Continued)............
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127
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139
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STILLWELL, JAMES
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281-723-9090
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EXHIBIT INDEX
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FOR THE DEFENSE:
SX-7
SX-8
SX-9
SX-10
SX-11
SX-12
SX-13
SX-14
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
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SX-15
SX-16
SX-17
SX-17A
SX-18
SX-20
SX-21
SX-22
SX-23
SX-24
SX-25
SX-26
SX-27
SX-28
SX-29
SX-33
SX-39
SX-40
SX-49
Cert. Mont. Cty. Elec. Recds Voter Reg...

Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/Doyle........
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/Cook.........
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/Curry........
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/Berntsen.....
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/Goeddertz....
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/McDuffee.....
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds and Voluntary
Homestead Designation/Adrian Heath.......
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds and Voluntary
Homestead Designation/James Jenkins......
Cert. Mont. Cty. Deed Recds/Allison......
Aerial map of Mont. Cty. WRUD borders....
Aerial map blow-up.......................
Cert. Mont. Cty. Appraisal District
Homestead Exemptions.....................
Photos of 16728 Bending Oak, Conroe, Tx..
Photos of 607 Sycamore, Conroe, Tx.......
Photos of 13238 Stonecrest, Conroe, Tx...
Photos of 32 N. Rainforest, The Woodlands
Tx/William Berntsen......................
Photos of 15910 Hartman Rd. Magnolia, Tx/
Peter Goeddertz..........................
Photos of 27907 Hanson Ct. Spring, Tx/
Richard McDuffee.........................
Photos of 43 W. Stony Bridge Ct. Spring,
Tx/Adrian Heath..........................
Photos of 16 Pastoral Pond, The Woodlands
Tx/James Jenkins.........................
Photos of 14993 Boyd Ln, Conroe, Tx/
Benjamin and Robert Allison..............
Photos of 2630 N. Crescent Dr., Spring,
Tx/Laukien...............................
Photos of WRUD Civil Suit Intervenors....
Cert. DPS Records, August 12, 2011.......
Cert. DPS Records........................
Cert. TDofT-Mont. Cty. Vehicle Reg. Recds
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281-723-9090
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ADM
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36
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N/O
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N/A
59
49
49
58
59
49
49
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58
58
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58
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58
58
58
58
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58
102
127
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102
128
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THE COURT:
All right.
We recall 12-03-2583 and
2585, State of Texas versus Sybil Doyle and Roberta Cook, who
are present with their attorney and the State's attorney.
We ready to proceed?
MR. WHITE:
Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
All right.
Bring the jury in
please.
(At this time the jury enters the courtroom.)
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
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Thank you.
I believe we are ready to proceed
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and when we recessed yesterday, Mr. Stilwell was testifying and
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being examined by the State.
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proceed.
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MR. WHITE:
And the State of Texas may
Thank you, Your Honor.
And we would
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had offered State's 6 and it was admitted I think the record
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will reflect.
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THE COURT:
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(State's Exhibit 6 admitted.)
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It is admitted.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED)
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BY MR. WHITE:
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Q.
Mr. Stilwell, before we dive into State's Exhibit 6,
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I just wanted to go back to what we were speaking about
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yesterday.
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growth that the RUD had helped bring to that area of The
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Woodlands.
We had spoken about the business and economic
Is that correct?

281-723-9090
A.
Correct.
Q.
We had spoken about the free use of the roads to the
residents and the fact that the residents aren't taxed for the
use of those roads.
Is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
I want to talk a little bit about what type of tax it
actually is on those business properties because we didn't get
into that specific detail.
A.
Sure.
Can you explain that to us?
As I was talking about the road utility
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district and describing it, I mentioned that there was a
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substantial amount of commercial property that's located inside
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the district.
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utility district is a real property tax, sometimes referred to
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as an ad valorem tax, but if you think of it as a property tax
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that's based on the value of the property.
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Q.
The tax that is on -- instituted by the road
And are those the type of taxes that a homeowner in
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that context would see, perhaps, on their -- I guess their
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taxes at the end of the year from the tax assessor collector?
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MR. WALKER:
Your Honor.
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I'm going to object to relevance,
THE COURT:
A.
Overruled.
For instance, the county assesses on residences a
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county tax.
The school assesses on residences a school tax.
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The township in The Woodlands assesses a property tax on
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residences, as well.
The road utility district does not.

281-723-9090
Only
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on those commercial properties inside its bounds.

Q.
Okay.
And what is the tax base that is being taxed
by the RUD?
A.
Well, that changes all the time as new businesses
come into place and as businesses are being valued differently;
but at about the time that this election took place, there was
more than 1.5 billion with a B, $1.5 billion in the road
utility district tax base.
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Q.
And the Defendants who are in the room with us today
are or are not taxed by the RUD?
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A.
They are not.
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Q.
Are the cost of these roads somehow passed down to
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the consumers and people that shop in the area of The
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Woodlands?
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A.
Well, it's not a sales tax.
So when you purchase an
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item, you don't pay a tax on the bottom of your receipt because
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it's not a sales tax.
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inside the road utility district, shopped both at locations
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inside and outside of the district.
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answer is with an example.
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lot of people like Starbucks coffee.
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five Starbucks locations that are inside the road utility
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district.
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2978, there is a Starbucks that is not inside the bounds of the
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road utility district and the price for a cup of coffee, a tall
I'm very familiar with different stores
And the best way I can
I like Starbucks coffee.
I know a
There are approximately
But by way of example, at the corner of 1488 and

281-723-9090
cup of coffee, by way of example, at the five locations inside
the district and the location that I'm describing that is just
outside the district is the exact same.
The Woodlands township, there's actually a 1 cent more sales
tax that the township imposes.
exact same inside and outside the district.
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MR. WALKER:
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But otherwise, the price is the
I'm going to object to
nonresponsive, the narrative, and relevance, Your Honor.
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Now, the ones inside
THE COURT:
Overruled.
But please ask your next
question.
Q.
(By Mr. White)
And is that consistent with other
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stores inside and outside the RUD that are located relatively
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closely together otherwise?
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A.
That's true.
Similar for Whataburger, for Target,
other stores that have locations inside and outside.

Q.
And you mentioned earlier that your practice is
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inside the road utility district.
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services in your practice, are you having to charge higher
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prices because you operate inside the RUD?
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A.
In terms of professional
My office is inside the RUD and, no, I do not charge
higher prices because of that.

Q.
Okay.
I want to talk in just a tiny bit more detail
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about the elections and whether they're held and not held and
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what that is all about.
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So if there are candidates that are opposing the

281-723-9090
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incumbent directors, is there an election?
A.
Yes.
Q.
If there are not candidates that apply to oppose the
incumbents, as was done in the 2010 election by three of this
group, is there an election?
A.
If there is no opposed race, there is no need for an
election under state law, so there is not an election under
state law.
Q.
And why is that?
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A.
Well, elections cost money.
That is they cost, you
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know, time and effort and you pay poll workers to run the
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polls.
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presumes that the only existing candidate gets at least one
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vote necessary to win the election.
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necessity to have the election.
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Q.
So if there is not an opposed candidate, then state law
Okay.
And so there is not a
Now, in terms of this board, which serves a
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commercial district and not residents, besides the fact that
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there are elections where someone can apply to be a candidate,
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are there other accountability measures that make this board
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and this RUD accountable to the public for its services?
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A.
Yes, there are.
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Q.
And could you name one of those for me?
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A.
Example of one would be open records.
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more examples.
Q.
What is open records?

281-723-9090
I can give you
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A.
Well, under state law, any governmental entity's
records are open to the public, that is, if you wanted to see a
record of the district, you would make a request to see a
record and the governmental entity has to provide you that
record for you to look at.
Q.
So, if a person was concerned about the operations of
a RUD before doing something like registering at a hotel to
vote in an election, would they have been able to get those
records and look at the financial records of the RUD to see
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what was going on?

A.
If they made an open records request, they would be
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provided the records the same way that I made open records
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request and I was provided the records.
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Q.
We mentioned just in passing yesterday that the RUD
is independently audited?
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A.
Yes, we did.
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Q.
Are those audits available as part of open records
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requests?
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A.
Yes, they are.
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Q.
And what is an independent financial audit?
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A.
Because the road utility district is a governmental
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entity that issues bonds, we talked about issuing those bonds
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to build and construct roads, they have to maintain certain
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financial requirements.
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district has an independent CPA or accounting firm perform a
And so each year, the road utility

281-723-9090
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review of its books and records and financial practices and to
make sure that they are following the proper accounting
practices, that they are maintaining the records in the right
way, and that they're properly expending the money for the
purposes for which the bonds were approved for.
independent report of an accounting firm to insure that all of
the practices follow accepted standards.
MR. WHITE:
If I might approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT:
Yes.
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Q.
(By Mr. White)
So it is an
I'm going to show you what's been
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marked as State's Exhibit 36.
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copy of one of those audits?
Is this, in fact, a certified
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
And would that have been available for someone who
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This is the 2009 audit.
was inquiring into the RUD or potentially inquiring in 2010 --
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
-- at the time of this election?
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A.
It looks like it was issued December 9, 2009.
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So,
yes, it would have been available in 2010.

Q.
And what was the opinion of the independent auditor
in terms of whether or not the RUD passed muster?
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MR. WALKER:
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THE COURT:
Sustained.
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MR. WHITE:
At this time, Your Honor, the State
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Objection, calls for hearsay.
will offer a certified copy of the independent audit of the

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road utility district for 2009.
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THE COURT:
And you're talking about -- you're
referring to State's Exhibit 36?
MR. WHITE:
Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. WALKER:
The objection is the same, Your
Honor, hearsay.
(Bench conference.)
THE COURT:
All right.
Okay.
Mr. Walker, on
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behalf of the Defense, has objected to State's Exhibit 36 as
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being hearsay.
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MR. WALKER:
For the purposes of the record, I
need to add to that objection and say relevance, as well.
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THE COURT:
Okay.
And your response to this?
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I'm looking under Rule 902, self-authenticating intrinsic --
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extrinsic evidence of authenticity as a condition to
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admissibility is not required with respect to the following --
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and then No. 2, domestic public documents not under seal.
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it seems like that would fit.
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MR. WHITE:
And
Is that what your position is?
Yeah.
I think I was presenting this
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as a public document that is under seal and this is a copy of
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that.
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THE COURT:
Well, you're saying that's the seal?
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MR. WHITE:
That's the seal.
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THE COURT:
Well, I think that would be under 1.

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But I think No. 2 -- I don't know if that's really much of a
seal.
It's an impression of something that appears like a
seal.
But it certainly Mr. Neill, as chairman of the Board of
Directors, certifying this is his signature seems to fit the
elements of Subpart 2 under Rule 902 for self-authentication.
And I would overrule the objection for hearsay.
However, he also makes the objection for
relevance.
relevance -- how this is relevant to proving one of the
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Can you proffer into the record what the
elements in the case?

MR. WHITE:
Sure.
I think this document is
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certainly relevant as to motive of this group of folks who
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voted to take over this road utility district.
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THE COURT:
That's -- anything else?
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MR. WHITE:
I do have something else, but I'm
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not doing it right now.
I'm sorry.
THE COURT:
Your objection is overruled.
It
will be admitted.
MR. GLICKLER:
Your Honor, just for record
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purposes, I would -- I just want to say that the State's
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position is that is a domestic public document under seal
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because the seal of a political subdivision of The Woodlands
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Road Utility District is a political department or agency and
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under Rule 1005 for public records allows us to produce a copy.
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So although this isn't a raised, shiny seal that we might

281-723-9090
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sometimes see, it's a copy of one.
we don't know how many, so obviously we're not going to have an
original every single time.
THE COURT:
MR. GLICKLER:
This is our third trial of
I just think that that's -That's what the State's position
is.
THE COURT:
All right.
As far as -- under 1001
and 1002 and 1003, admissibility of duplicates, a duplicate is
admissible to the same extent as an original unless there is a
10
question raised as to its authenticity or in circumstances it
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would be unfair to admit duplicate to prove the contents of a
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writing, the original is required except as otherwise provided
13
by these rules.
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same impression as the original, et cetera.
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definition.
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A duplicate is a counterpart produced by the

It has a
The point of the matter is who's to say that's a
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duplicate of it.
Nobody is swearing that that's -- I know what
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an original seal is; but a duplicate seal, I think if you're
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going to go under that field for a duplicate, you're going to
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have to have something that shows that it is a true and
21
accurate duplicate.
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impression of a seal, but is that all that important.
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still admissible under --
I mean, it purports to be some kind of an
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MR. GLICKLER:
25
THE COURT:
Understood.
Isn't it
Understood.
I think if you're going to use a

281-723-9090
16
duplicate, I think a duplicate has to have something stating,
purporting under oath that it as duplicate.
purported duplicate is enough.
meet the definition under Rules of Evidence of what a duplicate
is.
MR. GLICKLER:
THE COURT:
Otherwise, any
And I think you have to still
Okay.
Somebody has to say -- in his
authentication, he doesn't say anything about that seal.
MR. WHITE:
I'm curious because I think I have a
10
different understanding of seals.
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seal?
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THE COURT:
Can it not be a stamped
I think it probably could be, but
13
somebody has to -- I still think something has to refer to the
14
seal as being an authentic representation.
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carrying a badge and saying I'm junior patrolman, I'm a law
16
enforcement official.
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to -- appear to be.
It would be like
Who's to say that is.
It may purport
18
MR. WHITE:
I just wanted to --
19
THE COURT:
The point is if there is another
20
method of getting it that fits the Rules of Evidence and you're
21
safe in that way, but it's something to discuss over -- after
22
5:00.
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MR. WHITE:
24
(Bench conference concludes.)
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THE COURT:
All right.
The objections are

281-723-9090
17
overruled.
State's Exhibit 36 is admitted.
THE COURT:
Thank you for bearing with us,
Ladies and Gentlemen.
admissibility and it has to be put on the record.
like -- I'm sorry.
something has to be placed in the record outside the hearing of
the jury.
We're not talking about you.
It's not
It's just
Thank you for bearing with us.
Go ahead.
10
11
Sometimes we have to discuss things for
MR. WHITE:
Q.
(By Mr. White)

Mr. Stilwell, we'll move along; but
12
the basic point that I'm trying to get at is, did the RUD pass
13
this audit?
14
A.
Yes, they did.
15
Q.
And have they, in fact, passed all of their audits in
16
the last -- let me ask you this.
17
of the audits of the road utility district?
18
19
A.
What timeframe are you aware
I'm generally familiar with their audits from the
year 2000 forward and they have passed all of them.
20
MR. WALKER:
Judge, I'm going object to, one,
21
relevance.
22
keeping me from being a pop gun here, if I could have a running
23
objection based on relevance and hearsay to any information
24
regarding the audits of the RUD.
25
In addition to that, hearsay.
THE COURT:
And for the sake of
I'm not going to allow that, because

281-723-9090
18
if -- we're going to allow him to testify from admitted audits.
But you need to raise your objection each time if there are
items that haven't been admitted into evidence.
that is concerned, referring to items that haven't been
admitted, unless this man was the personal author of those
audits, then the objection is sustained.
Q.
(By Mr. White)
And as far as
Along this theme of accountability,
Mr. Stilwell, do property owners agree to be part of the RUD
when they purchase property in the RUD?
10
A.
Well, there are 2 different ways that a property
11
owner can be a part of the RUD.
12
property that is already part of the RUD, in which case, as a
13
part of that purchase as I mentioned yesterday, there's a
14
disclosure form that the property that they're purchasing is
15
inside the road utility district.
16
One is that they can a acquire
So that's one method.
And the other method is they can ask to be
17
included within the bounds of the RUD.
18
showed you yesterday identified two what were called
19
"annexation parcels," where the property owners had asked to be
20
included inside the bounds of the road utility district.
21
Q.
And the map that we
And would there be any remedies for property owners
22
if they were not happy with the RUD and its operation in terms
23
of promoting business and economy or the use of funds?
24
there a remedy available to property owners?
25
A.
There are multiple remedies.

281-723-9090
Is
19
1
2
3
Q.
And in this case, are the property owners the
taxpayer?
A.
In this case, the commercial property owners are the
taxpayer and the commercial property owners have remedies if
they are not happy with the way that the RUD -- road utility
district operates.
Q.
And what remedies would be available to the taxpayer
in this case?
A.
Generally just like any other governmental entity, if
10
you're not satisfied with something, you talk to your
11
representative.
12
of Directors and if it were me and my office is in the road
13
utility district, my first stop would be to talk to one of the
14
five directors about the operations and to try to see if they
15
might change something.
There are five directors that are on the Board
I mean, that's Step 1.
16
Q.
Would there be any civil legal remedies?
17
A.
Certainly if the road utility district was not
18
operating in accord with their governmental requirements and if
19
they weren't financially handling things properly, a property
20
owner in the district, a commercial property owner could bring
21
a civil lawsuit.
22
23
24
25
Q.
And would there, perhaps, be criminal remedies if
there were some sort of wrongdoing?

A.
Certainly.
If there is mishandling of governmental
funds, mishandling of governmental funds can qualify under a

281-723-9090
20
number of different penal code provisions.
doing and they're not, but if they were, then there could be
penal code violations.
Q.
So if they were
And while you've done work for the RUD and been
involved with the road utility district and are aware of the
goings on of the road utility district, have any of those
things happened?
A.
the district.
10
No.
But to be fair, I have not done legal work for

I have done legal work for three of the
directors of the district.
11
Q.
Fair enough.
12
A.
But, no, there hasn't been any of that that has gone
13
on during the time period that I've been knowledgeable about
14
and involved with the road utility district.
15
Q.
Mr. Stilwell, I want to shift gears and jump right
16
into State's Exhibit 6.
This is the point where we left off
17
yesterday and you had subpoenaed -- testified that you had
18
subpoenaed records from the Marriott Residence Inn to determine
19
nights stayed by these individuals, if any.
Is that correct?
20
A.
That is correct.
21
Q.
And we'll go through these records one by one.
22
23
What is this document, first off?

A.
This is part of the documents that I received in
24
response to the subpoena.
They are from the Marriott and this
25
first is a guest log for James Jenkins and it shows an arrival

281-723-9090
21
day of May 7, 2010, and it shows that he rented -- there it
is -- Room 102.
MR. WALKER:
Judge, I'm going to object to
hearsay as far as anything from the business record.
already is in evidence, but this witness' interpretation of a
business record, I would object to that as hearsay.
THE COURT:
Q.
nights?
10
A.
11
(By Mr. White)
It
Overruled.
And does it show a stay of one or two
It shows two nights.
It also shows a departure date
of May 9, so May 7 to May 9.
12
Q.
And what significance was the day of May 8?
13
A.
May 8 was the date of the road utility district
14
election or election day, if you will.
15
Q.
And what is the number of guests listed on this guest
17
A.
This document lists one guest.
18
Q.
And this is a page of notes that appears to be from
16
log?
19
their internal system at the Residence Inn.
20
listed upon this document?
21
A.
22
rental.
23
Q.
24
25
Who is the guest
This is a follow-up document on Jim Jenkins' room
And one thing of note is that there's been a note
added here apparently that says what?

A.
There were a additional individuals that were

281-723-9090
22
authorized to stay in his room.
Curry and Mr. Goeddertz and Mr. McDuffee.
the hotel had noted were authorized to stay in his room, as
well.
5
6
Q.
So four individuals
And including Mr. Jenkins, that would be how many
adult men?
7
8
That is Adrian Heath and Tom
A.
That would be a total of five adult men for one hotel
Q.
And in the details up here, it lists the number of
room.
9
10
nights as two and what is the number adults listed underneath
11
that?
12
A.
It lists one right above that -- right below that.
13
Q.
At a rate of what?
14
A.
$119 for a night.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
And is this record for another one of the
voters in the May 8 election?
17
A.
Yes, it is.
18
Q.
And who does this one belong to?
19
A.
This is Mr. Tom Curry.
20
Q.
How many nights and how many guests?
21
A.
Well, it shows an arrival date of May 7th and a
22
departure date of May 8, so a single night.
23
guest.
24
25
Q.
And it shows one
This appears to be another stay by Tom Curry.
was this?

281-723-9090
When
23
1
2
3
4
A.
2010.
This was earlier in time.
Departure May 1, 2010.

Q.
election.
This was April 30th of
So, again, a single night stay.
And this looks to be about a week before the

Is that fair?
A.
Approximately, yes.
Q.
Here we have a listing for Benjamin Allison?
A.
Can you lower it a little bit for me?
There we go.
Thank you.
Q.
All right.
10
A.
13993 Boyd Lane.
11
Q.
And are you familiar with that property?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
And where is it located, roughly?
14
A.
It is on the northeast side of Conroe.
15
Q.
And how many nights were listed on this stay?
16
A.
This lists a single night.
17
18
19
What is that address?
I have been to that property.
So an arrival of
May 14th, 2010, and a departure of May 15th, 2010.

Q.
Okay.
Now, this appears to be the week after the
election; is that correct?
20
A.
That is correct.
21
Q.
And what's the number of guests listed?
22
A.
This was two guests.
23
Q.
So if we turn the page, we see we're at the beginning
24
of the record.
25
received?
So is that the entirety of the records that you

281-723-9090
24
1
2
3
4
5
A.
Sure.
Those were all of the stays in 2010 up through
the date of the subpoena in May for those individuals.

Q.
Okay.
So prior to the election itself, how many
total rooms were rented by this group of ten voters?

A.
Prior to the election, there was Mr. Curry on two
occasions before the election and then the night of the
election.
Mr. Jenkins the night before the election.
of three room nights.
10
11
Q.
And then there was the one room rental by
All right.
So you have a total
And two directly before the election; is
that right?
12
A.
Two the night preceding the election day.
13
Q.
Now, this stay here on May 14th to May 15th, what was
14
going on during that time period?
15
this case?
16
A.
Had you become involved in
I had become involved in the case.
And what was
17
going on was immediately following the election, a lawsuit was
18
filed to contest the votes of the ten individuals that we're
19
talking about, including Ms. Doyle and Ms. Cook.
20
lawsuit had been filed, so this date was immediately after that
21
lawsuit had been filed.
22
23
Q.
Okay.
And that
So one week before the election, Tom Curry
rents a night?
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
The night of the election Tom Curry rents another

281-723-9090
25
night?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And James Jenkins rents two nights?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And then after the election contest had occurred and
a suit had been filed, we have a stay from Benjamin Allison and
two guests; is that correct?
8
9
10
11
A.
but yes.
I think that that two would be including Mr. Allison,

Immediately following the election, after the lawsuit
was filed, we have a single night stay listing two guests.

Q.
And is the entirety of the stays at the Marriott
12
Residence Inn that were available during this timeframe
13
involving these individuals?
14
A.
Correct.
15
Q.
And is this the list of the individuals that you
16
requested?
17
A.
Correct.
18
Q.
And would you read Letter A for us?
19
A.
Sure.
20
Doyle."
21
Q.
James Doyle being related to her in what way?
22
A.
Her husband.
23
Q.
And on Letter E, what did you list there?
24
A.
Roberta Cook.
25
Q.
Okay.
Letter A says, "Sybil Doyle and/or James
And were there any documents at all indicating

281-723-9090
26
that the two Defendants stayed a single night at the Residence
Inn before the election?
A.
Not in the year 2010.
Q.
Were you able to obtain copies of the voter
application change form for the ten Defendants?
A.
Yes, I was.
Q.
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's
Exhibit 7.
A.
And are these, in fact, those documents?

Yes, they are.
10
MR. WHITE:
At this time, the State will offer
11
certified Montgomery County elections records, State's Exhibit
12
7.
13
14
MR. WALKER:
May I take the witness on voir dire
briefly?
15
THE COURT:
Sure.
16
Just a second.
For the purposes of the jury,
17
you heard Mr. Walker ask to be allowed to voir dire the
18
witness.
19
only picking a jury, but also when the Court allows a witness
20
to be examined out of order regarding issues concerning
21
admissibility of items, we refer to that as "voir dire," just
22
so the jury understands.
23
Go ahead.
Voir dire has a couple of different meanings.
24
25
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MR. WALKER:

281-723-9090
Not
27
1
2
Q.
I see on here that on State's Exhibit No. 7 -- you
got that in front of you?
A.
I don't anymore.
Q.
Okay.
My copy is the same as the copy you were
looking at, correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And your testimony is that's a certified copy of the
government document, to wit, we have a seal on there; is that
correct?
10
A.
That is correct.
11
Q.
Is that the original or -- not my copy, but the copy
12
that the State offered or -- yeah, that the State offered and
13
showed to you, was that an original copy?
14
A.
15
the original.
16
Q.
17
Okay.
It was a certified true and correct copy of
Well, okay.
We have -- let me go -- we have the
original that is kept by who?
18
A.
The elections administrator for Montgomery County.
19
Q.
So you go there and you want a copy of it, they're
20
not going say, like, well, here's our original and they don't
21
have anything left, right?
22
A.
23
application.
24
true and correct copy of that original.
25
Q.
Correct.
They don't give me the original
They give me a certified copy that says this is a
That's my ultimate question.
State's Exhibit No. 7

281-723-9090
28
that the State offered, was that the original copy that you
received from the -- who is it? -- the election administrator
of Montgomery County or was it a copy of that copy?
4
5
A.
but I believe it was a photocopy of the certified record.
6
7
I believe -- and I don't have it in front of me now,
Q.
on that.
Let me go ahead and show it to you so we can be sure

(Tenders document.)
A.
I believe that that is a photocopy of the certified
record.
10
Q.
That you received that are --
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
14
MR. WALKER:
Same objection, Judge.
The
objection is relevance and hearsay.
15
16
One in the same.
THE COURT:
Overruled.
State's Exhibit 7
admitted.
17
18
19
BY MR. WHITE:
20
Q.
Mr. Stilwell, could you identify this document for
A.
Yes.
21
us?
22
23
This particular one being for Sybil Doyle.
24
25
This is a voter registration application form.
Q.
And is it a new application or change of address
form?

281-723-9090
29
1
2
3
4
A.
This is one that is marked as a change of address
Q.
All right.
form.
And for Ms. Doyle, what is the residence
address that is listed?
A.
She swears on this document she resides at 9333 Six
Pines Drive.
Q.
And I want to look at that quickly.
I can zoom a little bit.
that correct?
Under No. 9, if
There is an oath on this document; is
10
A.
There is.
11
Q.
Could you read that to the jury, please?
12
A.
Sure.
It says that "I understand that giving false
13
information to procure a voter registration is perjury and a
14
crime under state and federal law.
15
may result in imprisonment up to 180 days, a fine up to $2,000
16
or both.
17
signing."
18
Q.
Conviction of this crime
Please read all three statements to affirm before
And under Subsection 4, mailing address, could you
19
read the text that comes after mailing address?
20
instructive guideline for the voter.
21
A.
Sure.
There's an
It says, Mailing address, street address, and
22
apartment number, parenthesis, if mailed cannot be delivered to
23
your residence address.
24
25
Q.
And what is the address that Ms. Doyle listed to
receive mail at?

281-723-9090
30
A.
She listed 16728 Bending Oaks, Conroe, 77385.
Q.
This form appears to be signed and dated on what
A.
It's actually dated April 1, 2010, so four years ago,
3
4
5
6
7
date?
April Fool's Day.

Q.
There seems to be a slightly different format, but is
this the same document essentially?
A.
It is also a voter registration application form.
Q.
And who is this form for?
10
A.
This is for Roberta Cook.
11
Q.
And does it contain the same warning for perjury?
12
A.
It does.
13
Q.
All right.
14
A.
It does.
15
Q.
And what address does Roberta Cook, the Defendant,
16
17
And the same oath and affirmation?
swear is her residence address?

A.
She swears her residence address is 9333 Six Pines
18
Drive, The Woodlands, Texas 77380, The Woodlands Residence Inn
19
Marriott.
20
Q.
What address does she list as her mailing address?
21
A.
She identifies 607 Sycamore, Conroe, Texas 77302 as
22
23
24
25
mailing address.
Q.
And this document appears to be signed and dated on
what date?
A.
April 7, 2010.

281-723-9090
31
Q.
And that was roughly how long before the election?
A.
Approximately one month before the election, the
election being May 8th.
4
5
Q.
And are the other eight voters contained also in this
package?
A.
Yes.
That package that I got from the elections
office in Montgomery County was for each of those ten voters
that voted in the road utility district, not the two Laukiens.
They voted in early voting, but the ten that voted on election
10
11
day.
Q.
And the addresses we looked at before, the
12
607 Sycamore for Ms. Cook and the Bending Oaks address,
13
16728 Bending Oaks address, have you been to both of those
14
addresses?
15
A.
I have been to both of those address.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
And James Jenkins, here on his form, also
swears to the address of 9333 Six Pines Drive; is that right?
18
A.
Yes, as his residence.
19
Q.
And as the mailing address, what does he list?
20
A.
16 Pastoral Pond Circle in The Woodlands.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
I have.
23
Q.
Adrian Heath also listing Six Pines Drive.
24
25
And have you been to that address as well?
list an address for his mailing address?

A.
He lists a post office box.

281-723-9090
Does he
32
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes, again, residence 9333 Six Pines Drive and then a
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
And does Mr. Curry do the same thing?
mailing address of a post office box.

Q.
Mr. Berntsen, what does he list as his mailing
address?
A.
He listed his mailing address as 32 North Rain Forest
Court in The Woodlands.

Q.
Now, do we see that address earlier on a candidacy
application form for Mr. Berntsen?

A.
Yes.
He put that when he filled out his candidate
11
application to run for director of the road utility district,
12
he swore that was his permanent residence address.
13
14
15
Q.
appears.
A.
And Mr. Goeddertz, we have a similar situation it

What is the mailing address for him?
He lists 15910 Hartman Road in Magnolia, which,
16
again, was the permanent residence he listed on his candidate
17
application for the road utility district.
18
19
Q.
And Mr. McDuffee, also a similar situation; is that
right?
20
A.
That is correct.
21
Q.
What does he list as his mailing address?
22
A.
On this form, he lists his mailing address as
23
27907 Hanson Court in Spring, which, again, was the same
24
address that he put as his permanent residence address on his
25
candidate application.

281-723-9090
33
1
2
Q.
But on this date, which is April 5th, for
Mr. McDuffee, he swears that his residence is where?
A.
9333 Six Pines Drive, which is the hotel address.
Q.
And on March 31st, Mr. Goeddertz swears his address
is where -- his residence address, I'm sorry?
A.
Pines Drive.
Q.
He swears his residence is the hotel at 9333 Six
And, in fact, all of these ten swear that their
residence is at that address; is that correct?
10
A.
They do.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
A.
Correct.
13
Q.
Mr. Curry, does this appear to be the 1st of April?
14
A.
Yes, 1st of April.
15
Mr. Berntsen on 4-1, April Fool's?
It says 1 A-P-R, 1st of April.
Again, April Fool's Day.
16
Q.
Mr. Heath on March 5th; is that right?
17
A.
Correct.
18
Q.
Mr. Jenkins on April 5th?
19
A.
Correct.
20
Q.
And we just have the --
21
A.
Two Allisons.
22
Q.
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
They also list Six Pines, but list their mailing
25
-- Allison brothers, Benjamin and Robert?
address as what?

281-723-9090
34
A.
14993 Boyd Lane.
Q.
For Benjamin and for Robert?
A.
The exact same address.
Q.
And Robert does this on 4-6; is that correct?
A.
April 6th, correct, 2010.
Q.
And Benjamin on the same date?
A.
Also April 6th, 2010, correct.
Q.
As of all these dates for these individuals,
according to the Marriott Residence Inn records that are in
10
evidence, had any of these individuals stayed a single night at
11
this hotel at the time that they swore that that hotel was
12
their residence?
13
A.
Per the records of The Woodlands Marriott Residence
14
Inn, no.
15
at the hotel, they had not stayed one single night there in
16
2010.
17
Q.
At the time that they were swearing that they lived
Now, did you have an opportunity to review the county
18
deed records for the addresses listed as mailing addresses by
19
these individuals?
20
21
A.
And for the ones that listed post office boxes,
I pulled their deed records, as well.
22
23
Yes.
Q.
9.
Okay.
I'm going to show you State's Exhibits 8 and
Do you recognize these documents?
24
A.
Yes, I do recognize both of these documents.
25
Q.
What are they?

281-723-9090
35
A.
These are the deeds for Jim and Sybil Doyle's home
and for Roberta Cook's home.
being Ms. Cook's home.
4
5
Q.
All right.
8 being the Doyle home and 9
And are these records certified and
sealed by the county clerk of Montgomery County?
A.
They are.
MR. WHITE:
State will offer at this time
certified deed records of Sybil Doyle and Roberta Cook, State's
Exhibits 8 and 9.
10
11
MR. WALKER:
dire.
12
THE COURT:
13
14
15
16
Yes.

BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
As to 8 and 9, this is kind of the same line of
questioning we had with the previous Exhibit No. 7.
17
18
May I take the witness on voir
You went to the Montgomery County clerk and

obtained these records; is that correct?
19
A.
That is correct.
20
Q.
Obviously, they didn't give you the original.
They
21
made a copy and put a seal on it saying it's a true and correct
22
copy, correct?
23
A.
That is correct.
24
Q.
And what I'm looking at here, what's been offered, 8
25
and 9, those are copies of the copy you received; is that

281-723-9090
36
correct?
A.
record.
They are exact photocopy of the certified deed
4
5
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
State's Exhibits 8 and 9
(State's Exhibit 8 and 9 admitted.)
10
BY MR. WHITE:
11
Q.
13
Overruled.
are admitted.
12
I'll object to 8 and 9 based
on relevance and hearsay, Your Honor.
6
7
Okay.
Showing you State's Exhibit 8 on the overhead here.
What is this document, and what does it show?

A.
This is a deed, that is, it's a deed out of the
14
Montgomery County real property records.
15
the -- sorry -- up at the top, it identifies -- I don't know
16
what I just did there -- it identifies the exact location
17
within the deed records that you would find this deed and
18
you'll see it has Mr. Doyle's name on it.
19
20
Q.
And you can see up at
And does this document indicate the purchase of the
property and the ownership of it?
21
A.
Yes, it does.
22
Q.
And when was this property purchased and acquired by
23
24
25
Mr. Doyle?
A.
Well, this is a little hard to tell because this is
actually a correction deed.
You'll see the word right below my

281-723-9090
37
arrow that it's a correction deed.
was in January of 1969 and then this correction deed was for
September 18, 1970.
was back in 1969.
5
6
Q.
So there was a deed that
So it looks like the original transaction
All right.
So 1969 to today was -- correct my
math -- 45 years ago?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And did you investigate the location of the property
that is indicated on this deed?
10
A.
I did.
11
Q.
And is that the same address on Bending Oaks that we
12
looked at earlier on Sybil Doyle's mailing address that she
13
listed on there voter registration application?
14
A.
It is.
15
Q.
Is this also a deed document?
16
A.
It is.
Again, you'll see right up at the top that it
17
is -- I keep doing that -- see if I can get it.
Maybe.
It's a
18
deed.
19
you can find it in the real property record stamped onto it.
And again, it has the identification location of where
20
Q.
And what does this deed indicate?
21
A.
You have to look because it's within the body, but
22
you'll see it has Roberta Cook's name and it has the address
23
607 Sycamore Drive on it, so it is the deed for her property at
24
that address.
25
Q.
All right.
And what date was that deed executed?

281-723-9090
38
A.
Looks like the 24th day of June, 2005.
Q.
Did you investigate the location of the property
described in this deed?
A.
Yes, I've been to that address.
Q.
And is that address, in fact, 607 Sycamore?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And that is in Conroe, Texas; is that correct?
A.
Yes.
Conroe, Texas.
It's -- it's -- postal address is considered

It's located just off of the edge of River
10
Plantation, a little bit south of what you think of as the city
11
of Conroe, if you will.
12
Q.
All right.
Did you have an opportunity to obtain
13
deeds that pertain to the homes of the other eight voters in
14
this election?
15
A.
I did.
16
Q.
I should say the other eight voters who voted on
17
election day and changed their address to the Marriott
18
Residence Inn?
19
A.
Correct.
20
Q.
Okay.
I'm going to show you what's marked as State's
21
Exhibits 10 through 16.
22
requested?
Are those, in fact, the deeds that you
23
A.
Yes, these are each of those deeds.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
And Exhibit 16, does that pertain to the
address that was listed on Benjamin Allison and Robert

281-723-9090
39
1
2
Allison's voter registration applications?

A.
Yes.
3
4
MR. WALKER:
from the documents prior to their admission into evidence.
5
6
I object to any testimony coming
THE COURT:
Q.
(By Mr. White)
Sustained.
All right.
Are those copies of --
certified copies of deed records from the Montgomery County
clerk?
9
10
A.
Yes.
They are exact copies of the records contained
in the deed records as certified by the county clerk.
11
MR. WALKER:
12
MR. WHITE:
State offers 10 through 16.
13
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
14
MR. WALKER:
15
THE COURT:
Overruled.
State's Exhibits 10
through 16 are admitted.
18
19
We object to State's 10 through 16
based on relevance as well as hearsay, Your Honor.
16
17
Judge, we object -- sorry.
(State's Exhibit 10 through 16 admitted.)

Q.
(By Mr. White)
I'm not going to go through each one
20
of these individually, but do these addresses -- and have you
21
been to each one of these residences?
22
A.
I have been to each of those residences, yes.
23
Q.
Okay.
And do these documents show the ownership of
24
these residences by the individuals or by a spouse or parent of
25
the individuals who voted in this election on May 8th?

281-723-9090
40
1
2
A.
Yes.
In fact, each of those deeds show those as the
residences of those individuals who voted on election day.
Q.
All right.
A.
Correct.
Q.
11 being?
A.
This is Mr. Bernsten's, Bill Bernsten's, the 32 North
State's 10 being Tom Curry?
Rain Forest Court.
Q.
You have 12, also?
A.
I do.
10
Q.
And 13 appears to be Rick McDuffee.
11
A.
Yes, it is.
12
Q.
And Berntsen, Goeddertz, and McDuffee being the three
13
No. 12 is the deed for Mr. Goeddertz.
candidates; is that correct?
14
A.
Correct.
15
Q.
14 belongs to whom?
16
A.
Adrian Heath.
17
Is that correct?
And that is the deed for his house in
The Woodlands.
18
Q.
And 15 belonging to whom?
19
A.
This is the deed for Mr. James Alan Jenkins and his
20
21
wife at 16 Pastoral Pond in The Woodlands.

Q.
Okay.
And this was pertaining to my question before
22
about Ben and Robert Allison.
23
belong to?
24
25
A.
Allison.
Who does that property actually
This is the deed for their parents, Peter and Alice

The two boys lived with their parents.

281-723-9090
41
1
2
Q.
And is that the address that they listed on several
State's exhibits that we've already put into evidence?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Okay.
14993 Boyd Lane.
After you had -- or at some point you had
actually physically been to these properties.
or have created a map that plots these properties out on some
sort of aerial map?
8
9
10
A.
Yes, I did.
Did you create
Any time you're talking about addresses,
I find it helpful to have a visual depiction or a map showing

you where things are.
11
Q.
All right.
12
A.
And, yes, I had a map created for that purpose.
13
Q.
I'll show you State's 17.
14
had created?
15
A.
It is.
16
Q.
And what does it plot out basically?
17
A.
Generally, this is a satellite photograph of a
Is that the map that you
18
portion of Montgomery County, Texas, that was -- covered enough
19
of a portion to get in each of the addresses for the homes and
20
residences of the ten voters that we have been talking about
21
and also reflects the boundaries of The Woodlands Road Utility
22
District and the location of the Marriott Residence Inn hotel.
23
Q.
Do you think this map will be helpful to the jury in
24
understanding where these ten individuals lived in relation to
25
the road utility district and the Residence Inn where they

281-723-9090
42
1
2
voted from?
A.
I believe it's very helpful for that purpose.
MR. WHITE:
State's Exhibit 17, an aerial map of the area, including the
road utility district.
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
9
10
Q.
(By Mr. White)
A.
Yes, I did.
12
Q.
Okay.
14
Admitted.
And did you also have created an
exact blow-up of this map?
11
13
No objection, Your Honor.
I'm holding it here behind you.
This is the
blow-up of the map we're talking about?

A.
Yes, it is.
15
MR. WHITE:
Can I have permission to publish
16
this to the jury, Your Honor?
17
Exhibit 17.
It's an exact blow-up of State's
18
THE COURT:
Is it marked in any way?
19
MR. WHITE:
It is not.
20
for identification purposes?
21
22
THE COURT:
can follow along.
23
24
25
Would you like it marked
I think for the record so that we
You want to refer to that as 17-A.
MR. WHITE:
That will be perfect.
and mark it.

(State's Exhibit 17-A marked.)

281-723-9090
I'll go ahead
43
MR. WHITE:
As I attempt to place this on this
easel where the jury can see it, would it be possible for
Mr. Stilwell to step out behind the map.
right in front of him.
5
6
THE COURT:
Q.
(By Mr. White)
I'm going to put it
Sure.
All right.
Tell us -- first off,
there are what appears to be ten addresses on there total.
What are those addresses?
A.
It's ten addresses and the ones that are yellow and
10
alphabetically labeled are the nine addresses for the voters.
11
Again, remember, Benjamin and Robert Allison were two of the
12
voters that lived at the same address.
13
address is the Marriott Residence Inn and it's not depicted by
14
an alphabetic number, but a red dot.
15
16
17
And then the tenth
Would you like me to locate those?

Q.
Yeah.
Let's look first at the Defendant Sybil Doyle
who seems to be marked by a Letter A?
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
Would you show us where her residence is?
20
A.
Right.
So this is State Highway 242 and this is I-45
21
running through the middle of Montgomery County.
22
bit to the east of State Highway 242 on the north side of State
23
Highway 242 is Sybil Doyle's address.
24
25
Q.
So a little
And where is Pete Goeddertz's address in relation to
the road?

281-723-9090
44
A.
Mr. Goeddertz, one of the candidates, he lived -- he
was the one I was describing lived out near Stagecoach.
can actually see the little red border of the municipality of
Stagecoach.
he is outside of the bounds of the city of Stagecoach.
think of Magnolia proper as being off of 1488 near FM 1774.
But his address is on Hartman Road.
8
9
10
Q.
You
His address is actually a Magnolia address because
Okay.
We
It's a Magnolia address.
And let's skip to the Defendant Ms. Cook on
Sycamore Drive?
A.
Sure.
Ms. Cook, as I was describing, lives just off
11
the edge of River Plantation.
12
heading towards Conroe, River Plantation is on the east side of
13
the road and her address is just off of that location.
14
15
16
Q.
So if you took I-45 north,
We just recently talked about the Allisons.
Show us
their address, please.

A.
Correct.
Benjamin and Robert Allison lived at their
17
parents' address at 14993 Boyd Lane, that same mailing address
18
that was on their voter registration certificates.
19
actually all the way up here off to the east side of Conroe.
20
You can see at the very top of the map the Conroe airport.
21
any of you that are familiar with where that's located, you
22
have Conroe proper, Conroe airport, and then heading east out
23
towards Cut and Shoot is where that address on Boyd Lane is
24
located.
25
Q.
That's
So
And approximately how far, if you know, travel time

281-723-9090
45
1
2
is that from the road utility district?

A.
Well, I've been there and I've done that, so let's
say from the address at the Six Pines hotel, you're about
three minutes out to I-45.
downtown Conroe.
And then you're another about 20 minutes out
to that address.
So approximately an hour by the time you add
it all up together.
You're about 30 minutes up to
Q.
All right.
A.
Depending on traffic lights and that sort of thing.
10
Q.
Sure.
11
Have you made the drive from the RUD over to
Mr. Goeddertz's residence out in Magnolia?
12
A.
I have done that, as well.
13
Q.
Do you know the proximate time?
14
A.
Also, again, if you were going from that same
15
location, you're approximately the same time period.
16
little harder to get back to his address because you don't have
17
the I-45 corridor.
18
closer, it's slower speed limit.
19
time, about an hour.
20
21
22
Q.
It's a
So even though it is maybe a little bit

So it takes about the same
And did we identify -- I don't recall whether we
identified that red dot in the center.

A.
Oh, I'm sorry.
The red dot that I was pointing to is
23
the hotel at 9333 Six Pines Drive, The Woodlands Marriott
24
Residence Inn.
25
Q.
And there is some major thoroughfares of the road

281-723-9090
46
utility district and I don't want you to go into any detail,
but could you just point out the ones that the folks would
know?
A.
Sure.
What you see in kind of the coffee color, the
tan color that is on the map are the bounds of The Woodlands
Road Utility District, the same kind of map that we looked at
earlier.
east to west is Woodlands Parkway.
Drive.
So this long road going from right to left or from

This is Lake Woodlands
This is Research Forest Drive just to the north of it.
10
And then on kind of the north-south run, you have Gosling Road,
11
you have Kuykendahl Road, and then right here, although it's a
12
little bit hard to see, you have Grogans Mill Road.
13
kind of north-south corridors.
14
Q.
So those
The only thing I can think of else to do is to point
15
out the other two directors we talked about.
16
The other two candidates for director would be Mr. Berntsen and
17
McDuffee.
18
A.
Mr. Goeddertz.
Could you point out their residences?

Sure.
Mr. Berntsen is on North Rain Forest Court.
19
He was down here in the lower edge of The Woodlands.
20
Mr. McDuffee, I had mentioned earlier lived out in Bender's
21
Landing.
22
southeast part of Montgomery County.
23
Q.
And then
So he is out here off of Hansons Court in the
And there is a Letter C that appears to be in the
24
middle of some roads that the road utility district services,
25
but not in the bulk of The Woodlands it doesn't seem.

281-723-9090
Who is
47
1
2
that and explain that, please?

A.
Sure.
Adrian Heath was one of the voters that we
have talked about.
Bridge Court, which is located not the midst of The Woodlands
on a residential street.
bounds of the road utility district.
between two of the roads where the road surface is in the road
utility district, that being Woodlands Parkway and Lake
Woodlands Drive, but his house itself is not part of the
10
And Adrian Heath's address is on Stony
The residential street is not in the

He is roughly located
boundaries of the road utility district.
11
Q.
Does he pay taxes for the road utility district?
12
A.
No, he does not.
13
Q.
Do any of these individuals listed on this map pay
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
taxes for the road utility district?

A.
No, they do not.
owners and none that I have found.

Q.
On their residence, none of these individuals reside
in the road utility district; is that correct?

A.
None of them reside in the road utility district,
correct.
21
22
23
24
25
Unless they're commercial property
MR. WHITE:
I'm going to take this down and you
can take your seat, if you don't mind.

Q.
(By Mr. White)
What was the purpose of your visits
to these homes?
A.
As I mentioned, there was a lawsuit that I was hired

281-723-9090
48
for immediately following election day.
I was authorized to go and visit each of these addresses and
take photographs of the contents of the homes.
4
5
Q.
And under court order,
And did you do that, in fact, for Sybil Doyle's
residence at 16728 Bending Oaks?
A.
I did.
Q.
Did you do it, as well, for the residence of Roberta
Cook at 607 Sycamore?
A.
I did.
10
Q.
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 20 and 21.
11
Do
you recognize these photographs?
12
A.
Yes, I do on Exhibit 20 and, yes, I do on Exhibit 21.
13
Q.
And who took those photographs?
14
A.
I took these photographs.
15
Q.
And during what time period or what date did you take
16
those photographs?
17
A.
18
month of May.
19
between May 12th and May 30th, so in that two-week timeframe
20
was the date that the Court authorized and ordered that I go
21
take the photographs.
22
Q.
I don't remember the exact date.
It was within the
It was after the lawsuit was filed.
All right.
So in
And how was this period of time when
23
these photographs were taken in relation to the May 8th
24
election?
25
A.
It would have been within the two weeks following the

281-723-9090
49
1
2
3
4
May 8th election.

Q.
Okay.
So you were photographing the condition of
these homes at that time for what purpose?

A.
As you saw, the voter's registration cards that each
of these people signed swore that that was their residence
address; that is, the 9333 Six Pines Drive, the hotel in The
Woodlands.
court ordered and authorized me to go and take photographs of
the property that was located on their deed records to see what
They swore that that was their residence.
10
those properties looked like.
11
Did they have clothes there?
12
Q.
The
Did they have furniture there?

Did they have food there?
And do the photographs taken in State's 20 and 21 by
13
you fairly and accurately depict the contents of the residences
14
that you visited that day?
15
A.
They do.
16
MR. WHITE:
17
MR. WALKER:
18
THE COURT:
19
(State's Exhibit 20 and 21 admitted.)
20
21
22
Q.
(By Mr. White)
State offers State's 20 and 21.

No objection.
They are admitted.
What is this notation on the first
photograph?
A.
Well, I was going out to take photographs at nine
23
different locations that day and as I arrived at each location,
24
I had a legal pad with me and I wrote the name and the address
25
before I took pictures so that on my camera I would have a

281-723-9090
50
separator between the pictures identifying which pictures were
taken at which address.
3
4
Q.
There appears to be a mailbox with what markings on
it here?
A.
mailbox.
address.
The mailbox that you see to the left is the Doyles'

You can see it has their name on it and their street
Q.
All right.
And what is depicted in this photograph?
A.
Well, you have a garage and storage on the lower
10
level and then you had rooms above it.
11
to the left-hand side of the picture is the main residence.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
In fact, yes.
14
Then what you see off
This is some sort of storage structure?

And there's a picture of the contents
of that storage structure later in the photos.
15
Q.
And what do we see in this photograph?
16
A.
When I was identifying the main residence was to the
17
left, this is actually the main residence structure.
18
Q.
There appear to be some sort of pet living there?
19
A.
There was a dog that was on a chain on the location,
21
Q.
And what is this photograph?
22
A.
Well, first, let me apologize to the jury for the
20
yes.
23
quality of my photographs, but when I took pictures that day
24
the Doyles' had their power turned off and so the pictures
25
aren't as great as I would want them to be.

281-723-9090
But this is a --
51
you'll see a computer, a desk and various books and records.
So this was kind of a study or work area in the house.
3
4
Q.
Did any of the other homes that you visited have the
power turned off?
A.
Yes, a couple of them did.
Q.
Okay.
Were you able to get that power turned back on
in the garage or wherever it had been cut off?
A.
No, I did not make that attempt.
Q.
Okay.
And it's a little blurry, but what are we
10
seeing in this photograph in terms of things that -- items that
11
are everyday living items that people have?
12
A.
Sure.
Well, we open the window to make sure that we
13
could get some light in to take a photograph.
14
across the bottom of the picture, you see a couch and then a
15
love seat or a sofa.
There is a fireplace back on this wall.
16
Picture on the wall.
And then off to this side of the
17
photograph was the kitchen area.
18
19
20
Q.
And do we see books and things of that nature that
are items that people would have in their homes?

A.
Yes.
There was a set of encyclopedias on a shelf on
21
this part of the photograph.
22
Television set.
23
other things like that on it.
24
25
But you see
Q.
Bookshelves with books here.
And then television stand that had tapes and
And what types of everyday living items did you see
in the kitchen area?

281-723-9090
52
A.
Sure.
This is the kitchen area and there were food
and spices and I believe medications that were on the
countertop here as well as dishes and cups and glasses that
were out and open on the counter.
Also the refrigerator.
Q.
Were you allowed to open the refrigerator?
A.
I was.
Q.
What was the contents in the refrigerator?
A.
Well, in -- in almost all the homes that I looked at,
there was food, perishable food located in the refrigerators.
10
Q.
And did you open this one?
11
A.
I opened every single refrigerator.
12
took a picture inside this one.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
No.
15
I don't think I
Was there spoiled food in there?
There was not spoiled food in any refrigerator I
looked at.
16
Q.
And do you recall some evidence that would indicate
17
that the power was actually off at this house for a period of
18
time in regard to this refrigerator?
19
A.
Actually, the refrigerator itself was cool, which
20
indicated to me that the power had not been shut off for very
21
long.
22
Q.
And this is sideways, but what do we see here?
23
A.
This was their pantry and I know it's hard to see,
24
but there were regular kinds of pantry items that you would
25
see.
There were canned vegetables and spices and I think there

281-723-9090
53
was a box of cookies and other things that people regularly and
ordinarily keep in their pantries.
Q.
More of the same?
A.
Sure.
And, in fact, if you don't mind zooming in
real quick right over in that area.
were, as I mentioned a second ago, you couldn't see it very
well in the last photograph, but there were medications on the
countertops that were labeled for the Doyles on their kitchen
countertop.
10
You will see that there
Q.
And it seems pretty obvious.
12
A.
Laundry room.
13
Q.
What are we looking at here?
14
A.
This is bathroom countertop.
15
Q.
I'll zoom out a little bit so we can see.
16
A.
Bedroom.
17
Q.
Could you tell whether this was a master or a guest
11
18
What are we looking at
here?
bedroom?
19
A.
You know, four years later, I don't remember.
20
Q.
And what type of clothing do we see hanging in this
21
closet?
22
A.
23
24
25
This was inside the closet in that room and there's
some women's clothing in there.

Q.
these.
I won't make you any comment on every single one of

It gets repetitive at a certain point.

281-723-9090
But this -- is
54
1
2
3
4
5
this another section of closet?

A.
Right.
And this particular closet had men's clothing
in it.
Q.
Does it appear also to be women's clothing?
seeing some black and white paisley here.
A.
There may have been both.
Q.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
A.
Correct.
10
Q.
And we have another closet with clothing?
11
A.
Right.
12
Q.
And contents of a garage or shed?
13
A.
Correct.
15
This
appears to be a different bedroom; is that right?
14
I'm
You can see a lawn mower, ladder, riding
mower.
Q.
All right.
So in the home of Sybil Doyle at
16
16728 Bending Oaks, did you see all the types of things that
17
you would expect to see in a home that's being lived in,
18
resided in by people?
19
20
21
A.
Sure.
Pets, food, clothing, kitchen items, just what
you would normally expect to find in somebody's home.

Q.
All right.
And moving on to the home of Roberta Cook
22
on 607 Sycamore.
23
through the exterior of the home.
24
A.
25
that street.
You have marked mailbox again.
Trash cans out.
Moving
What do we see here?
It was garbage collection day on

281-723-9090
55
Q.
What does this appear to be?
A.
Like a family room or living room, if you will, with
TV, couches, ordinary stuff that folks keep in their house.
Q.
Do we see photographs of family members and children?
A.
Correct.
There were photographers throughout the
house.
case anybody was wondering, this is also a terrarium.
lights were -- the power was on at Ms. Cook's home.
reddish tint.
10
11
Q.
In fact, you see a whole line of them here.
Just in
The
You see a
That was a red light on a terrarium for a pet.
Out of curiosity, this large cage here, do we know
what animal lived in that?
12
A.
I don't specifically remember, but I believe it was a
14
Q.
And those pets were still living?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Okay.
13
17
18
bird.
Did you see them?
What, if anything, did you observe about this
kitchen?
A.
The kitchen had, again, the regular things you would
19
think of with an everyday kitchen in it.
There were items on
20
the countertop.
21
food in the pantry, food in the refrigerator.
There were, in this case, dishes in the sink,
22
Q.
Did it appear that this kitchen was actively in use?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
What did you observe here in this room?
25
A.
This house had multiple bedrooms.

281-723-9090
This is one of the
56
bedrooms in the house.
Q.
Did you catch you in the mirror?
A.
Actually, that was one of the other people that was
present.
That was not me that you see there.
The voters also
had their attorney and some of them attended the photography,
as well.
one of them in the mirror.
And in that particular case, that's a reflection of
Q.
Okay.
A.
In this case you see some long-sleeved and
10
What type of clothing do we see here?
short-sleeved shirts and some jackets.
11
Q.
How about in this photo?
12
A.
Right.
13
some dresses.
14
Q.
I don't know if we can make out down here.
15
A.
You had some women's shoes.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
Over on this side of the closet, there were
And do you see anything over in this area, or
is it just a blur to you?
18
A.
In my picture, I can't see a whole lot there.
19
Q.
Did you know whether or not Ms. Cook had children?
20
A.
She had pictures of children inside the house and
21
there were certainly children's items in some of the bedrooms.
22
Q.
Are these some of those photographs you mentioned?
23
A.
Yeah.
24
Q.
And this appears to be some sort of document here on
25
the bed.
This was just right above the fireplace.
Do you know what that was?

281-723-9090
57
A.
Right.
That document was actually one of the
documents from the legal case that we were involved in at the
time.
4
5
Q.
or was that in the home like that when you found it?
6
7
A.
10
That was in the home exactly as you see it when I
walked in.
8
9
And had that been put there by one of the attorneys,
Q.
So did the home of Ms. Cook at 607 Sycamore contain
all the things that you expect to see in a home that is

actively being lived in?
11
A.
Yes, it did.
12
Q.
And I'm going to show you State's Exhibits 22 through
13
28.
Could you tell us what those are, please?
14
A.
15
Curry's home.
16
Bernsten's home.
17
Peter Goeddertz's home.
18
at Richard McDuffee's home.
19
took at Adrian Heath's home.
Exhibit 27 are the photographs I
20
took at James Jenkins' home.
Exhibit 28 are the photographs I
21
took at Peter and Alice Allison's home where Benjamin and
22
Robert Allison lived.
23
Q.
Sure.
Exhibit 22 are the photographs I took at Tom
Exhibit 23 are the photographs I took at Bill

Exhibit 24 are the photographs I took at
Exhibit 25 are the photographs I took
Exhibit 26 were the photographs I
And do the photos in the exhibits that I just handed
24
you fairly and accurately represent the homes as you viewed
25
them on that day?

281-723-9090
58
A.
Yes, they to do.
2
3
MR. WHITE:
At this time, the State will offer
State's Exhibits 22 through 28.
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
(State's Exhibit 22 through 28 admitted.)
Q.
(By Mr. White)

Admitted.
I'm not going publish these or go
through these Mr. Stilwell, but in looking through all these
homes and taking all these photographs in these homes, did you
10
see in each one of these homes the types of things that you
11
expect to see in homes that are being actively lived and
12
resided in?
13
A.
Absolutely.
14
15
MR. WHITE:
take a quick break if it pleases the Court.
16
THE COURT:
17
us all.
18
be excused.
19
Thank you.
I think it will please

You may
Everyone remain seated while the jury exits.
(At this time the jury exits the courtroom for

the break.)
22
23
Of course.
How about ten minutes, Ladies and Gentlemen?
20
21
Now would be a good time for us to
(At this time the jury returns to the

courtroom.)
24
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
25
You can sit, really, anywhere you want, but

281-723-9090
Thank you.
59
every jury -- and this is my 310th jury trial, by the way.
Every jury picks their own seats early and they keep with those
seats.
find a seat and they like it and they just sit there.
They become territorial.
5
6
Ever jury is similar.
I think we are ready to proceed.

Q.
(By Mr. White)
They
Go ahead.
Mr. Stilwell, did you have an
opportunity to obtain homestead exemption applications for this
group?
A.
Yes, I did.
10
Q.
And I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 18.
11
Are
these the documents that you acquired?
12
A.
Yes, they are.
13
Q.
And they're for the ten voters that we -- pertaining
14
to the ten voters or the nine addresses that we've spoken about
15
earlier?
16
17
18
A.
Yes.
Again, with the Allison -- the two Allison boys
at their parents' address.

Q.
Okay.
19
MR. WHITE:
At this time State offers State's
20
18, which is a certified copy of the homestead exemption forms
21
for the voters.
22
MR. WALKER:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
Q.
(By Mr. White)

Admitted.
First off, could you explain what a

281-723-9090
60
1
2
homestead exemption is?

A.
Certainly.
When you own real property -- I call it
"dirt" in my law practice.
When you own dirt, you can -- if it
is your residence address where you live, the laws of the State
of Texas allow you to designate your residence dirt, if you
will, as a homestead.
protections in the State of Texas.
creditors, that is, your homestead is protected from someone
coming after it to take it away from you, save and except if
That generally carries two different

One is a protection from
10
you have a mortgage on it.
11
designation, that is, as we've already talked about the county
12
and school districts and what have you tax you on your real
13
property.
14
homesteads if you have filed the paperwork identifying that
15
that property is your homestead.
16
is the -- particularly for the tax break.
17
18
19
Q.
And then the second is a taxing
Some of those districts give a tax break on
Okay.
So a homestead exemption form
What does a homeowner have to do to get that
tax break, to qualify for that?

A.
Generally you apply for it and you file that document
20
with the Montgomery County Appraisal District or, in some
21
instances, with the taxing authority.
22
23
Q.
All right.
And is there a residence requirement for
a homestead exemption?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
What is that?

281-723-9090
61
1
2
A.
The address that you designate as your homestead must
be your residence.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Meaning that that is where you live.
Q.
And do you have to swear to those facts in order to
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
Meaning what?
receive a homestead exemption?

A.
Yes.
There is a spot on the document just above the
signature where you swear to the facts in the document.

Q.
Okay.
And whom is this homestead exemption and
application for?
A.
This is James and Sybil Doyle.
16728 Bending Oaks address that we've been looking at.

Q.
And when is this document signed and dated, if you
can see?
A.
It's a little hard, but it looks like it is 2-22 --
looks like that says '10.
17
Q.
So late February of 2010?
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
And we see Pete Goeddertz here.
20
Again, at that
James Jenkins, but
I'm going to skip to Roberta Cook here.
21
A.
Correct.
22
Q.
And is the address for Roberta Cook applying for this
23
homestead exemption the same as you visited and photographed?
24
A.
Correct, yes, the 607 Sycamore address.
25
Q.
And does she also swear to the information on this

281-723-9090
62
document?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Could you read the text below her signature?
A.
Sure.
Below her signature it says, "If you make a
false statement on this application, you could be found guilty
of a Class A misdemeanor or state jail felony under the Texas
Penal Code Section 37.10."
8
9
10
Q.
And you see here the general residential exemption.
And does it indicate whether you can or can't claim a homestead

exemption on any other property?
11
A.
You can only claim it on one property.
It
12
specifically says that you only qualify if you have not claimed
13
a residence homestead exemption on any other property.
14
Q.
And let's see.
Richard McDuffee, Thomas Curry,
15
Adrian and Candy Heath, William Berntsen, Peter Allison on Boyd
16
Lane.
17
that we saw on all the documents that have been before us today
18
have a homestead exemption that was active?
Did each one of these residences that you visited and
19
A.
Yes, it was -- yes, they did.
20
Q.
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 39, 40, and 49.
21
22
Do you know what those documents are?

A.
Yes.
These are records from the Texas Department of
23
Public Safety for driver's license.
That is 39.
40 is also
24
records of the Texas Department of Public Safety also for
25
driver's license and record information.
And then Exhibit 49

281-723-9090
63
is Texas Department of Motor Vehicles automobile registration
information.
Q.
And do all those documents appear to be certified?
A.
They are.
5
6
MR. WHITE:
State offers State's 39, 40, and 49,
which are certified documents of DPS and Texas DMV.
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
(State's Exhibit 39, 40, and 49 admitted.)
10
Q.
(By Mr. White)

They are admitted.
And in reviewing these documents,
11
what address is listed for Sybil Doyle on her driver's license
12
registration?
13
A.
On Exhibit 39, the Texas Department of Public Safety
14
records reflect that Sybil Doyle's driver's license address is
15
16728 Bending Oaks address.
16
17
Q.
And if you see when those records are certified, tell
us what date that's as of?
18
A.
The date of the certification?
19
Q.
Yes.
20
A.
It is as of the 12th day of August, 2011.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
In Exhibit 40, the records reflect that the driver's
And what is the address listed for Roberta?
23
license for her is 607 Sycamore, the same address that we've
24
been looking at.
25
Q.
And on State's 49, which is the DMV records -- we

281-723-9090
64
just have two pages here.
registered to whom?
3
4
A.
And the first one is a vehicle
Well, the owners are James and Sybil Doyle at the
16728 Bending Oaks address.
Q.
And the second document?
A.
Well, it has the owner Roberta Cook, 607 Sycamore.
Q.
Now, I want to ask you one last question -- or a
couple of questions.
that a group of ten individuals tried to vote in the RUD and
10
And what it has to do with is the fact
take over the road utility district.
11
A.
Okay.
12
Q.
And given your testimony about the business and
13
economic growth that the RUD has brought and the free use of
14
the roads to residents, that they're not taxable and that the
15
costs of the RUD aren't passed to in the form of higher prices
16
and the independent audits that are passed and the double A
17
credit rating, what is the downside to this RUD?
18
MR. WALKER:
19
THE COURT:
20
A.
Objection to relevance, Your Honor.

Overruled.
To me, there is close to no downside whatsoever.
It
21
is a big help to our community and to the businesses that are
22
located in The Woodlands.
23
it would be in order to have roads, somebody has got to pay for
24
them and so there is a tax to those commercial property owners
25
in order to pay for the roads.
If I was to identify any downside,
But I think the roads more than

281-723-9090
65
adequately compensate and benefit for that tax.
MR. WHITE:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
5
6
Pass the witness.

May I proceed, Your Honor.
Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
Mr. Stilwell, have we ever met before?
A.
I think we have met here and there in the courthouse
9
10
a time or two or at a bar association function.

Q.
Okay.
And you were talking about this civil lawsuit
11
that you were involved in.
12
correct?
I wasn't involved in that; is that
13
A.
No, you were not involved in that.
You are correct.
14
Q.
As far as these individuals that were ultimately --
15
well, the Defendants in that civil lawsuit, who were they
16
represented by?
17
18
A.
The Defendants in that lawsuit were represented by
Eric Yollick's law firm.
19
Q.
Who is Mr. Yollick?
20
A.
Mr. Yollick is an attorney in Montgomery County.
21
Q.
Have you had a lot of experience in dealing with him?
22
A.
I have dealt with him in multiple different lawsuits.
23
Q.
Describe in a general sense what type of lawsuits
24
25
we're talking about.

A.
The different lawsuits I've been involved with him on

281-723-9090
66
besides this particular election contest were civil lawsuits.
They were generally construction lawsuits.
3
4
5
6
Q.
Has Mr. Yollick practiced for some time in the
Montgomery County area?

A.
He has to my knowledge.
I'm sorry.
I also had some
will and probate matters with Mr. Yollick, as well.
Q.
So you are familiar with his work?
A.
I have known him on opposite sides of cases for about
9
10
15 years.
Q.
And certainly during the course of this business, we
11
have opposite sides of the case, but we learn to respect each
12
other and treat each other professionally; is that correct?
13
Almost -- well, we hope to.
14
15
16
17
A.
It's our aspiration.
We hope to; but with Mr. Yollick, that's not always
the case.
Q.
Okay.
How would you rate him as far as competency as
a lawyer?
18
MR. WHITE:
Objection to relevance, Your Honor.
19
THE COURT:
Response?
20
MR. WALKER:
I think it is relevant, Judge, in
21
the sense that his name has come up in testimony as far as
22
being involved in this scenario and I want to delve into that
23
subject matter.
24
25
THE COURT:
So personal opinions about
attorney's competence, we want to interject into this forum.

281-723-9090
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1
2
MR. WALKER:
me, Judge, I'm fine.
3
4
As long as we're not talking about
THE COURT:
That's what I'm thinking, are you
MR. WHITE:
I don't think the relevance of
serious?
5
6
Mr. Yollick as a witness or a Defendant or anything has been
established to the point of needing to get to this point in
determining his qualifications by testimony of another attorney
at this point.
10
THE COURT:
I am going to allow Mr. Walker a
11
little leeway here to see where he's headed, but be careful
12
about flying too far afield here because I want to make sure it
13
dovetails into issues that this jury is going to deliberate
14
upon, please, which are elements of the charge.
15
MR. WALKER:
16
THE COURT:
17
18
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Thank you.
Back to my question.
You need me to
restate it?
19
A.
Please.
20
Q.
Would you consider Mr. Yollick to be a competent
21
22
attorney?
A.
I -- he is a licensed attorney.
He is not won any of
23
the cases I've been involved with in him and he has multiple
24
judgments against him relating to his work as an attorney.
25
competence, in my mind, is questionable.

281-723-9090
His
68
1
2
Q.
Yet -- I guess we'll get to the ultimate.
He is a
licensed attorney in the State of Texas?
A.
He is.
Q.
Does he have an office location down in the south
part of the county?
A.
He does.
Q.
How long have you been knowing him?
A.
I think the first case that I had involving him was
9
10
about 1997, so more than 15 years.

Q.
Now, let's move on to you.
We're not going to talk
11
about -- ask you to rate yourself.
But let's talk about your
12
areas of practice.
13
the areas of probate law, real estate law, and the general
14
heading of civil trial law.
I believe you testified that you worked in
Is that correct?
15
A.
That is correct.
16
Q.
You don't practice criminal law, do you?
17
A.
I do no criminal law.
18
Q.
And in the course of -- well, obviously, you worked
19
on this case and that would have required you to become
20
somewhat intimate with the Texas Election Code; is that
21
correct?
22
23
24
25
A.
In the civil case, yes, I had involvement with the
election code in the election contest.

Q.
And I want to -- this is elementary for us for what
we do, but I want to make this make sense for the jury.

281-723-9090
So
69
when we talk these general areas, we have different codes for
different areas of the law in the State of Texas; is that
correct?
A.
We do.
Q.
For instance, I've got sitting on my table is a penal
code, Code of Criminal Procedure, right?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And there's other things.
There's a probate code,
correct?
10
A.
They just changed that.
11
Q.
Estate's code, okay.
12
A.
As of January 1.
13
Q.
I'm a little brighter today.
14
It's now an estate's code.
estate code; is that correct?
15
A.
We have a real property code.
16
Q.
Real -- I'm sorry.
17
18
19
20
We also have a real
You're right.
Property code.
And all of these codes typically start out with

a -- a list of definitions of various terms; is that correct?
A.
Many of the laws and many of the codes containing
those laws have definition sections, yes.
21
Q.
Would that be true of the real property code?
22
A.
There are sections of the real property code that
23
have definitions, yes.
24
Q.
And certainly that's true of the elections code; is
25
that correct?

281-723-9090
70
A.
Yes, the elections code also contains definitions.
Q.
Do you know or recall whether or not the property
code contains a definition of the word "residence" or
"residents"?
A.
I do not recall.
Q.
Is it possible it does and you would just have to dig
out the books and look?
A.
I generally dig out the books and look.
Q.
Okay.
But you became familiar with the definition of
10
the term "residence" in the context of the Texas Election Code
11
when you worked on this civil lawsuit; is that correct?
12
13
14
A.
Yes, the election code has a definition.
And, yes,
it was part of that lawsuit.

Q.
I'm going show you -- put it upon the screen here.
15
Would you agree with me that's a -- well, let me hand it to you
16
first.
It won't all fit there.
17
18
Would you agree with me that that's a definition

as contained in the Texas Election Code?
19
A.
That does look like it.
20
Q.
And I want to point you specifically to Subsection B
21
of that definition.
In the course of your practice, when
22
you're dealing with real property --
23
A.
Can you slide that up just a little bit more?
24
Q.
Sure.
25
A.
The bottom part is cut off on my screen.

281-723-9090
There you
71
go.
Thanks.
Q.
In the course of your practice in dealing with the
real property code and this is probably the Civil Practice and
Remedies Code, wherever you have had to look at various codes
and various definitions, can you point me to any definition of
any term that refers me to common law rules as enunciated by
the courts of this state?
8
9
A.
I know that the former probate code and now estate's
code also references the common law; and I'm confident that
10
there are others, as well.
11
of right off the top of my head.
12
Q.
Okay.
But that's the only one I can think
But as far as -- back to the point of the real
13
property code and the term "residence," you don't recall
14
whether that's defined in the property code?
15
A.
I do not know in the property code whether there's a
16
definition of "residence" or "resident" or not.
17
look.
18
19
Q.
22
And if we had property code with us, that's probably
about a two-minute process, right?
20
21
I'd have to go
A.
Yeah.
There's generally pretty good indexes in the
Q.
Okay.
We'll get this that part in a little bit.
back.
23
Let's talk about who were you your clients in
24
this lawsuit.
25
A.
Remind us who your clients were.
Sure.
There were three directors who were existing

281-723-9090
72
directors in the road utility district that hired me.
were Bill Neill.
as it appeared on the ballot and on these papers is Eugene
Miller, and then Winton Davenport, Junior, although he goes by
the name "Buck."
6
7
Q.
They were Gene Miller, although his full name
And prior to -- or first of all, did these
individuals retain you or did the RUD retain you?
8
9
They
A.
RUD.
I was not hired by the RUD.
I did not represent the
In fact, I got a restraining order against the RUD.
10
Q.
And who represented the RUD?
11
A.
Mike Page.
12
Q.
Tell us who Mr. Page is?
13
A.
Mr. Page is an attorney that generally represents
14
governmental entities, special districts.
He represents -- or
15
up until about two years ago, I believe he represented The
16
Woodlands Township, among others.
17
Q.
Where is his practice located?
18
A.
His law firm is Schwartz, Page & Harding.
And I
19
actually think Schwartz, Page & Harding is located in Houston,
20
not here in Montgomery County.
21
Q.
When you said that you were required to get a
22
restraining order against the RUD, was that in the course of
23
this lawsuit?
24
A.
When you say "this lawsuit" --
25
Q.
I'm sorry.
The lawsuit that you were hired to

281-723-9090
73
1
2
represent the -A.
Yes.
In the civil lawsuit as part of the election
case, I got a restraining order to prevent the votes of the ten
individuals from being counted.
utility district from counting the votes that we contended were
illegal votes.
Q.
So I was restraining the road
So this certainly wasn't -- your restraining order
certainly was not against your clients or their interests,
correct?
10
A.
The order restraining the road utility district
11
restrained all of the existing directors from taking any
12
actions contrary to that order.
13
actually restrained my own clients, as well.
14
not against their interests.
15
16
17
Q.
So in that sense, yes, it

However, it was
And that was to restrain the RUD from seating these
three people that were elected?

A.
Right.
There's a process that follows the actual
18
votes being cast where they're tallied, where they're counted,
19
where they're canvassed.
20
And then the district declares the winner of the election.
21
so it was partway through that process, after they were cast,
22
but before some of these other steps were taken, to prevent
23
results from being declared and prevent the three challengers
24
from taking the seats.
25
Q.
That's election code terminology.
Your clients, Mr. Neill, Mr. Miller, and

281-723-9090
And
74
Mr. Davenport, did you know them prior to them retaining you to
represent them?
3
4
5
6
A.
I knew Mr. Neill, but the other two I did not know
prior to them retaining me.

Q.
Had you had any dealings with anything to do with the
road utility district prior to being retained for that lawsuit?
A.
Only in my commercial real estate practice.
Q.
And whom did you know?
A.
I'm sorry?
10
Q.
Whom did you know that was involved in this lawsuit
11
prior to being retained to represent these individuals?
12
believe you said Mr. Neill.
13
A.
I knew Mr. Neill, Mr. Neill being one of the folks
14
that hired me.
15
legal community.
I have known Mr. Page for a long time in the
16
Q.
Yollick, of course.
17
A.
Mr. Yollick, I have know for approximately 15 years;
18
but at the time that I filed the lawsuit, I didn't know who was
19
going to be representing the ten voters.
20
21
Q.
Okay.
What about these two absentee ballots.
What
were the names on that?
22
A.
It was Dirk Laukien and Kate or Katie Laukien.
23
Q.
And do you know those individual -- or did you know
24
25
those individuals prior to your involvement in that lawsuit?

A.
I do know those individuals and I did know those

281-723-9090
75
individuals prior to the lawsuit.
2
3
Q.
And had you represented them before in any lawsuits?
I'm sorry.
That's a bad question.
4
5
Have you ever represented them in any type of

legal work?
A.
I have not ever represented Dirk Laukien or Kate
Laukien.
shareholders or their different forms of entities, members or
managers of.
10
11
Q.
Such as limited liability partnerships, corporations,
things of this nature, correct?
12
13
I have represented entities that they are owners or
A.
I know that I have represented at least one that he
was a partner or owner in, correct.
14
Q.
And certainly your involvement in this lawsuit
15
required that you be familiar with the road utility district in
16
general and its history and its procedures and things like
17
that?
18
A.
It did.
19
Q.
Other than this road utility district, have you ever
20
21
22
had any dealings with any other road utility districts?

A.
I had a little bit of involvement with one other road
utility district in Montgomery County.
23
Q.
How many do we have in Montgomery County?
24
A.
I actually don't know.
25
Q.
This one's -- I saw and I believe it's one of the

281-723-9090
76
first exhibits, that it said Road Utility District No. 1?
A.
Correct.
Q.
When -- wouldn't we assume that would mean that it
4
5
6
7
8
was the first one in Montgomery County?

A.
It may be the oldest in Montgomery County.
I know
the other one I dealt with was younger.

Q.
And the one that we're talking about in this case,
Road Utility District No. 1, when was it formed?
A.
1991.
10
Q.
Are these positions on the board, are they paid
11
12
positions?
A.
I believe that the directors do receive a -- and I
13
don't know what the term is called -- but a per meeting stipend
14
or small sum of money, like 50 bucks a meeting or 75 bucks a
15
meeting, something like that.
16
as a paid, full-time position by any means.
17
18
Q.
But it's not what you think of
Being on that board is not going to be your job,
correct?
19
A.
Correct.
20
Q.
And you testified earlier that there was an election
21
held in 2010, correct, the one we're talking about here?
22
A.
That's correct.
23
Q.
And there's been one subsequent to that; is that
24
25
correct?
A.
That is correct.

281-723-9090
77
Q.
What year was that?
A.
There was one -- I believe it was last year.
Q.
And prior to this election which was held in 2010, do
you know when the last time that they were required to hold an
election?
6
7
8
9
A.
I do not remember there having been an election prior
to 2010.
Q.
And you testified that the primary properties located
within this road constitute what we would call "commercial
10
properties."
Is that correct?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
Yet, one would have to be a resident, according to
And the surfaces of the road.
13
the election code definition, in order to vote for the Board of
14
Directors; is that correct?
15
A.
That is correct.
16
Q.
During the course of your representation during this
17
civil lawsuit, did you become aware of the number of voters
18
that were purporting to be residents of that road utility
19
district?
20
21
22
A.
I did examine a list of people who had registered for
the district, yes.

Q.
And approximately -- well, if you know exactly, tell
23
me exactly; but I bet you're going to have to approximate the
24
number of registered voters that were eligible to vote in that
25
election.

281-723-9090
78
A.
Two different questions.
Q.
You're right.
A.
But I think that the list that I looked at had
approximately 20 people on it, including the ten that we're
talking about.
were truly eligible to vote.
7
8
Q.
That's your interpretation of the -- well, let
me move on from there.
9
10
Okay.
And I believe that there were only two that
We have 20, and that includes the ten people,

including the lady sitting next to me, correct?
11
A.
It did include them.
12
Q.
As well as the other people we referred to and let's
13
say those ten people.
14
voter's roll for that road utility district, correct?
15
16
17
A.
So we're down to ten people on the
There were ten other or so people registered,
correct.
Q.
And in your opinion, as far as those ten, you only
18
found two that were, once again, in your opinion, eligible to
19
vote; is that correct?
20
21
22
23
A.
I know that two were eligible to vote because they
lived in a residence in the district.

Q.
And you're referring to the -- am I saying their name
right, the Laukiens?
24
A.
That's close enough, yes.
Dirk and Kate or Katie.
25
Q.
What about these other eight people?

281-723-9090
Are they dead
79
1
2
3
4
or moved off or what?

A.
For the most part, the other individuals had
registered a business address, which was not a residence.

Q.
Are you familiar -- you said you went around to all
these people's various houses.
residence and that was pursuant to court order; is that
correct?
8
9
A.
You took pictures at their
The ten that we're talking about including Ms. Doyle
an Ms. Cook, yes.
10
Q.
And did you go to the address for the Laukiens?
11
A.
I did.
12
Q.
What address is that?
13
A.
It's on Crescent Ridge Drive.
14
15
16
And I want to say it
was 4320, but I'd have to look to be certain.

Q.
If I said -- well, let's get it exact, because it's
on the exhibits.
It's 2630, I believe.
17
A.
I'm with you, I'd rather get it right.
18
Q.
Let's make -- there we go.
This is State's Exhibit
19
No. 3.
20
your screen.
21
A.
You're good.
22
Q.
And we've got the two people voting absentee and that
23
Tell me if I need to move it around to make it work for
is -- you know those signatures to be the Laukiens, correct?
24
A.
They weren't absentee.
25
Q.
I'm sorry, early voting.

281-723-9090
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1
2
A.
They were early voting and, yes, those are the two
Laukiens' signatures at 2630 North Crescent Ridge Drive.
Q.
Did you take any photographs of that residence?
A.
I did.
Q.
Do you have those with me?
A.
I do not have those with me, no.
Q.
Are they easily retrievable?
A.
I believe that the State has them.
Q.
Okay.
10
11
Does this address at 2630 North Crescent Ridge
also contain any commercial buildings?

A.
2630 North Crescent Ridge Drive is a residence.
12
There is a commercial building adjacent to it with a different
13
address.
14
Q.
And who is that commercial building owned by?
15
A.
I actually am not entirely certain.
16
Q.
And are you familiar with the real estate owned by
17
Mr. Laukien during the course of your representation of the
18
entities owned by him or during the lawsuit you represent these
19
individuals in?
20
A.
I know a few pieces of real estate that are owned by
21
entities or by Mr. Laukien individually.
22
no clue what the entirety of the real estate that he owns is.
23
Q.
But I certainly have
Are you aware whether or not he owns other commercial
24
real estate located within the RUD excluding 2630 North
25
Crescent Ridge?

281-723-9090
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A.
He does.
Q.
Do you know the extent of those holdings, whether
it's Mr. Laukien or his wife or them together or through some
partnership or corporation?
A.
I know there are multiple different answers to that
question.
different fashions that are within the road utility district
that are commercial property that the Laukiens or Mr. Laukien
are involved with.
10
Q.
I know multiple pieces of property that are owned in
Let's go ahead and list the ones you know of, whether
11
that's owned by him individually, his wife individually, them
12
jointly, or through some business entity such as a limited
13
liability partnership, a partnership, a corporation?
14
A.
Sure.
For instance, the Black Walnut Cafe.
The
15
Black Walnut Cafe is owned by an entity that is called "Black
16
Forest Ventures."
17
Woodlands and Mr. Laukien and maybe Ms. Laukien have an
18
interest in Black Forest Ventures.
19
the road utility district that is called Bruker Optics.
20
Optics is a manufacturing facility.
21
Woodlands.
22
bounds of the road utility district and Mr. Laukien has
23
ownership in Bruker Optics.
24
building that's known as "24 Waterway."
25
is owned by an entity called 24 Waterway, LLC, and Mr. Laukien
It's located on Research Forest Drive in The
There is real property in

Bruker
It's located in The
The commercial property is located inside the
There is a multi-tenant commercial

24 Waterway, I believe

281-723-9090
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has ownership in that entity.
Q.
Any others?
A.
I believe that there are others, but I'm not sure
4
5
6
that I could specifically identify them by address or entity.

Q.
I believe you testified earlier as far as the
commercial value --
A.
I'm sorry, I did just remember one more.
Q.
Sure.
A.
There is a property that is close to the intersection
10
of Research Forest and Gosling that is called -- I believe it's
11
called "Black Forest Plaza."
12
Kitchen is located and has commercial lease space in that
13
building at that address.
14
the Black Forest Ventures group, which I already identified
15
that he is an investor in.
It's where Hubble & Hudson
And I believe that is also owned by
16
Q.
Your office is in the road utility district, correct?
17
A.
It is.
18
Q.
You lease that office space, correct?
19
A.
I do.
20
Q.
Does Mr. Laukien have any interest in that building?
21
A.
Does not.
22
Q.
Who owns it, if you know?
23
A.
I know indirectly who owns it.
There is an entity
24
that is named -- that is the ownership entity for that
25
building, but the ultimate owner is the Howard Hughes

281-723-9090
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Corporation.
Q.
Back to the topic I started to delve into, the value
of the property contained within the RUD.
A.
Yes.
Q.
You testified to that earlier.
I don't know if you
gave us the exact number, but I believe it was in the billions.
What was that?
8
9
A.
In 2010, around the time of this election, the value
of the commercial property in the road utility district was
10
about 1.5 billion with a B.
11
statements, as well.
And it's shown in the audited
12
Q.
Right.
And that's in evidence, correct?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
What is the -- what is the amount of assets that the
15
road utility district has?
16
hand?
How much money do they have on
17
A.
Today?
18
Q.
Let's go back to what is in evidence, in the audit in
19
20
21
22
23
'09.
How much did they have on hand?

A.
I believe in the audit in '09, they had funds on hand
in excess of $21 million.

Q.
And they have author- -- the road utility district
has authorization to issue bonds; is that correct?
24
A.
They do.
25
Q.
And, in fact, they've done that; is that correct?

281-723-9090
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A.
They have.
Q.
Now, certainly we have properties all over the
county, all over the state that are, one, in a municipality and
they're not in a road utility district; is that correct?
A.
That is true.
Q.
And as far as maintenance upkeep, et cetera, as far
as the roads within those areas, who does that responsibility
fall to?
A.
Well, there are a variety of different options.
The
10
most common one is the county, but sometimes there are private
11
roads.
12
Q.
Okay.
Let's talk about public roads.
13
A.
Okay.
14
Q.
Would you agree with me that the primary
15
responsibility as far as upkeep or building of those roads in
16
public areas falls to Montgomery County, correct?
17
18
19
20
21
A.
It frequently does.
It depends on the specific
circumstance, but most often it's the county.

Q.
What about the State.
What involvement would they
have in areas such as that?

A.
Well, if it's a state road like a state highway, for
22
instance, I mentioned State Highway 242 earlier.
State
23
Highway 242 was built by and/or is a function of the state as
24
opposed to the county.
25
responsibility.
Most of our highways are not county

281-723-9090
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1
2
Q.
And are there any state highways included within the
boundaries of the RUD?
A.
You know, I don't believe that there are.
Q.
Go ahead if you need to step down.
A.
I think that this is helpful.
There are properties
along the edge of State Highway 242, which, if you were looking
right here again, this is I-45.
Highway 242 that comes across here and the commercial
properties that are at the edge of State Highway 242 are within
This is actually State
10
the bounds of the district; but the highway itself, you'll see
11
is not colored that beige or coffee-colored spot.
12
highway is not part of the district because it falls under a
13
different government.
14
Q.
Okay.
The state
Now, there -- would you agree with me that
15
there are county roads located within the road utility
16
district, public county roads?
17
county roads.
18
Montgomery County would be responsible for the upkeep of those
19
roads?
20
21
A.
I'm sorry that's a bad word,
Roads that are, were it not for the RUD, that
Can you say that one more time because I want to make
sure that I answer it accurately.
22
Q.
In the absence of the RUD --
23
A.
Okay.
24
Q.
-- are there roads contained within the boundary of
25
that RUD that would fall under the -- as far as upkeep and

281-723-9090
86
things of that a nature, they would fall to Montgomery County?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Does the road utility district have assets such as
tractors and asphalt and things of that nature, or do they
contract for those services?
A.
They generally contract for services.
Q.
And who do they contract with in a general sense, if
you know?
A.
A lot of different entities.
10
Q.
And who has the duty or obligation to make those
11
12
13
contracts?
A.
Well, the road utility district enters into contracts
for the building of roads or the improvement of roads.
14
Q.
And they do that through their board of directors; is
15
that correct?
16
A.
That is correct.
17
Q.
Do you know a gentleman by the name of Phil Grant?
18
A.
I do know Phil Grant.
19
Q.
How do you know Mr. Grant?
20
A.
Mr. Grant is part of the district attorney's office.
21
He's another licensed attorney in the county and somebody that
22
I have met through activities with the bar associations and
23
otherwise.
24
25
Q.
And, in fact, he is the first assistant district
attorney; is that correct?

281-723-9090
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A.
He is.
Q.
Now, prior to the filing of this lawsuit that we've
been representing, the lawsuit that you filed in relation to
the road utility district, did you have any meetings with
Mr. Grant?
A.
Prior to filing the lawsuit, no, I did not.
Q.
Did you have any phone conversations with Mr. Grant
prior to the filing of the lawsuit?
A.
Prior to the filing of the lawsuit, no, I did not.
10
Q.
Prior to the filing of the lawsuit, did you have any
11
meetings with Mike Page regarding the road utility district?
12
A.
I did not have any meetings with him, but I believe I
13
had at least one phone call and maybe two phone calls with Mike
14
Page prior to filing.
15
I probably had more than two phone conversations with Mike
16
Page.
17
with him about the road utility district.
18
If we go to prior to filing the lawsuit,
Prior to being hired in the lawsuit, I probably had two
Q.
You lost me a little bit.
One or two conversations
19
regarding the road utility district prior to being retained by
20
these three individuals?
21
A.
Correct.
22
Q.
After being retained and before filing the lawsuit,
23
how many conversations with Mr. Page?
24
A.
At least two and maybe three.
25
Q.
Did you have any meetings or telephone conversations

281-723-9090
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with Mr. Grant after being retained in the lawsuit or the
lawsuit that you represented the three individuals?
A.
I did.
Q.
Okay.
5
6
7
And when did those occur in relation to filing
of the lawsuit?
A.
On the day that I filed the lawsuit, I met with
Mr. Grant.
Q.
Any meetings after that or telephone conversations?
A.
I believe that the week that the actual trial
10
started, and I don't remember whether there was a phone call or
11
whether I just stopped in at his office when I was in the
12
courthouse, but I let him know that the trial was starting.
13
one either call or meeting about the time that the actual civil
14
trial started.
15
Q.
So
I don't want to delve too far in your business, but
16
you were certainly compensated for your time and effort in that
17
lawsuit you filed on behalf of those three individuals; is that
18
correct?
19
A.
I was.
20
Q.
You had these ten individuals when you had all these
21
documents -- or during the course of your investigation and
22
your lawsuit -- I don't know quite how to put this -- those ten
23
individuals exist, correct?
24
A.
Yes.
They're real people.
25
Q.
They weren't pseudonyms.
They weren't fictitious

281-723-9090
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names.
These were individuals that go by those particular
names, correct?
A.
That is correct.
Q.
Are you familiar with the requirements of an
application to be a registered voter?
A.
I'm generally familiar with one.
Q.
And we have some of those in evidence; is that
correct?
A.
We do.
10
Q.
And those are required to be filed at some point
11
prior to the election; is that correct?
12
A.
That is correct under the election code.
13
Q.
And what is the timeframe in which a person, prior to
14
the election, has to file those applications?
15
A.
Generally it is 30 days prior to an election.
16
Q.
Now, I know we're parsing the word "residence" a lot,
17
but do you have to be at that residence 30 days before the
18
election?
19
A.
You swear on the application that you reside at a
20
residence.
21
registration application, you're swearing what your residence
22
is.
23
Q.
So at the time that you file your voter's
Let me ask it a different way.
Does a person have to
24
be a resident of a location 30 days prior to the election in
25
order to be eligible?

281-723-9090
90
A.
I think in order to register to vote, you have to
swear that you reside inside the bounds of a territory that you
want to vote in.
residence other than you're swearing to it when you file the
application.
right word would be -- acquire a residence inside of 30 days
prior to an election, but you would not be generally eligible
to vote in that election because you hadn't met the
registration deadline.
But the election code does not require
I believe that you can -- I don't know what the
Does that make sense?
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
You follow what I'm saying?
12
Q.
Yeah.
13
A.
May not have been clear.
14
Q.
Well, it's two lawyers sitting here asking a jury if
15
I tried.
they understand the question.
16
But the 30 days is an application requirement,
17
not a -- not a -- I'm a resident when I become a resident of a
18
location.
19
myself a resident; is that correct?
20
21
22
A.
I don't have to wait 30 days in order to declare
You do not have to wait 30 days to declare yourself a
resident, that is correct.

Q.
Certainly, you would agree with me that when we're
23
talking about these properties that have had ad valorem tax put
24
on their property, that that's a business expense for them,
25
correct?

281-723-9090
91
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
A.
The businesses that pay that tax, that is a business
expense, that is correct.

Q.
And certainly these businesses are in the -- the best
hope is that they turn a profit, correct?

A.
Most businesses are out to make a profit, that's
generally true.
Q.
And these expenses, whether they be rent or supplies
or taxes, those are eventually basis economics, those are
eventually paid by the customer; is that correct?
10
A.
I think that's not necessarily entirely a fair
11
statement.
I'm also an economics major.
12
undergraduate degree.
That was my
13
Q.
You're going to be here another couple of hours.
14
A.
Fine and dandy.
But different businesses factor
15
their expenses different ways.
16
others don't.
17
seen from my own shopping in the road utility district, the
18
major retail locations don't.
19
Q.
Some pass them on to customers;
And for the most part, based from what I have
You talk about the ways that these properties can
20
become part of the road utility district.
21
in -- if you know, back in 1991 when it was formed, what were
22
the boundaries?
23
A.
Back in 1991, I don't know.
First of all, back
I know that the Texas
24
legislature created the district, but I don't know whether they
25
created the district with an existing map or whether they

281-723-9090
92
1
2
called for a boundary election.

Q.
I'm not sure.
And since 1991, have the boundaries or the amount of
land contained within the road utility district, has it
expanded, contracted, or stayed the same?
5
6
7
8
A.
It has increased as different property owners have
petitioned to have their land included within the district.

Q.
Can you name any of those property owners that have
petitioned to be within the district?
A.
I can.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
For instance Wal-Mart at the end of Woodlands
12
Parkway -- at the intersection of Woodlands Parkway and 2978,
13
that certainly did not exist back in 1991.
14
exist.
15
became a part of the district along the way by annexation.
Today it does
And today it is part of the road utility district.
16
Q.
How does that process work?
17
A.
Well, generally a property owner requests that
It
18
property be included within the bounds of a district and then
19
the Board of Directors, I believe, makes the determination as
20
to whether or not to annex it or include it in.
21
property owner request, I generally believe that is a vote of
22
the Board of Directors.
23
Q.
If it's by a
Now, I can speak from personal experience, but I
24
rarely volunteer to be taxed more.
What is the benefit for
25
these businesses to be within the road utility district?

281-723-9090
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A.
Well, generally a property owner who wants a roadway
improvement that is adjacent to their business facility might
be willing to have their property included in order to have the
possibility of getting the roadway improved.
5
6
7
Q.
You mentioned Wal-Mart.
And do they garner some
benefit by being in the road utility district?

A.
I believe in the particular instance of the Wal-Mart
at the end of The Woodlands Parkway, that there was a stoplight
put in by the road utility district at the driveway entrance
10
into the Wal-Mart facility.
11
customers to be able to turn into their driveway.
12
something that Wal-Mart wanted.
13
the road utility district wanted.
14
Q.
I think that made it handy for

I think it's
I think it's something that
And the road utility district would not have the
15
authority to put in, for instance, that stoplight unless the
16
property was contained within the road utility district?
17
A.
And two different things there.
I believe the road
18
utility district paid for the improvement, but I believe that
19
stoplights are the function of the county.
20
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
Okay.
But the improvement to the roads, that was a
benefit to Wal-Mart, correct?

A.
In that particular instance, having that stoplight
there I think was helpful to that shopping center, yes.

Q.
You stated there was some other way for a property to
be brought within the boundaries of the road utility district.

281-723-9090
94
What's the other one?
the other way?
A.
You talked about the volunteer.
What's
I believe at the very beginning of the district,
there was either -- the Texas legislature either had a map
describing the boundaries or there was some kind of a boundary
election.
Montgomery County, and I don't know.
8
9
Q.
That's just before my time, before I was in
Are you aware of the location where the Board of
Directors has their meetings?
10
A.
Today, I'm not entirely sure.
11
Q.
Let's talk about 2010.
12
A.
I am aware of where they held meetings in 2010.
13
Q.
Where was that?
14
A.
They held their meetings in the 24 Waterway building.
15
Q.
And who is that building owned by?
16
A.
That building is owned by 24 Waterway, LLC.
17
Q.
Which is an -- LLC, when we use that term, that's a
18
limited liability corporation, correct?
19
A.
It is.
20
Q.
Do you know who the shareholders of that entity are?
21
A.
I do not know who all of the shareholders are; but as
22
I mentioned earlier in my testimony, Mr Laukien is one of the
23
owners of that facility.
24
25
Q.
Are there rules or requirements as far as how many
meetings or when they have to have meetings?

281-723-9090
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A.
I don't -- I know that they're enabling legislation
calling for at least an annual meeting, but I'm not sure that
they prescribe a specific number or requirement of meetings.
know they meet whenever they need to do business and they have
public postings and public notice of the meetings.
know that there is a minimum number other than an annual
meeting.
But I don't
They've had more frequent meetings than that.
Q.
And have you ever attended any of the meetings?
A.
I have.
10
Q.
Outside of the Board of Directors and maybe support
11
staff and yourself, have you ever seen any members of the
12
public at these meetings?
13
A.
I have.
14
Q.
Anyone that you are -- that you know, know their
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Who would that be?
18
A.
Well, I know that at the meetings there was a road
15
name?
19
vendor that actually was bidding for a road job.
20
or one of the owners of that is the Kellogg Company.
21
Q.
Any other individuals?
22
A.
Sure.
And the owner
I know that there have been members of the
23
Chamber of Commerce, where I'm also on the Board of Directors
24
of the Chamber of Commerce, and they've from time to time
25
attended the meetings.
I believe Amy Milstead has attended

281-723-9090
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those meetings.
Q.
How many meetings have you attended?
A.
I've been to four meetings, I believe.
Q.
Any of the ten people we're talking about in relation
to this election, the two ladies sitting next to me and the
other eight, ever see any of them at any of the meetings?
A.
I did not see the two ladies, Ms. Doyle and Ms. Cook,
at any of these meetings.
However, I did see other members of
the ten voters at one of the meetings that I attended.
10
Q.
Who would that be?
11
A.
My recollection is that Mr. McDuffee, Mr. Curry,
12
Mr. Goeddertz, I believe Mr. Berntsen, and Mr. Heath were
13
present at one of the meetings that I was present at.
14
15
16
Q.
Let's put that in context.
Was that before or after
the election of 2010?

A.
The meeting I'm referring to was after the election,
17
where I saw those individuals where I was in attendance and
18
they were in attendance.
19
20
Q.
You testified about the records of the road utility
district being public; is that correct?
21
A.
They are.
22
Q.
And --
23
A.
State law.
24
Q.
Right.
25
housed?
And can you tell us where those records are

281-723-9090
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A.
I do not know where they are housed today.
Q.
Okay.
2010, when you were representing these three
individuals, were you aware where the records of the road
utility district were located?
A.
No.
Because when I made the open records request, I
contacted an individual over the telephone and they gave me an
address to send the request to.
records were at that address or not.
But I don't know whether the

I simply don't know.
Q.
Where was that address at?
10
A.
The individual that I was asked to send it to was a
11
legal assistant in the Schwartz, Page & Harding law firm.
12
Q.
That's the law firm for Mr. Page --
13
A.
Mr. Page.
14
Q.
-- who represents the -- or at least in 2010
15
represented the road utility district.
16
JUROR:
17
MR. WALKER:
18
JUROR:
19
THE COURT:
20
Q.
Excuse me, Your Honor, can he speak up?

I'm sorry.
I'm having a little trouble hearing.
(By Mr. Walker)
Thank you.
Mr. Page represented in 2010, at
21
least we know, he represented the road utility district; is
22
that correct?
23
A.
He did.
24
Q.
Was the place where you sent this request his office
25
location?

281-723-9090
98
A.
It was.
Q.
What did you request specifically?
A.
I requested some of the elections records, the
That's where I was told to send the request
to.
combination form that I think are already in evidence that were
put upon the screens.
for the road utility district.
I believe I requested the boundary map
Q.
What about the audit we have in evidence?
A.
Back in 2010, I don't remember.
10
I know I requested
it at some point in time, but I think that was later than 2010.
11
Q.
Did they charge you a fee for copying these records?
12
A.
I believe there was a minimal photocopying fee that
13
was based on the number of pages that I requested.
14
per page copy cost.
15
16
17
Q.
It was a
Maybe 10 bucks or less.
To your knowledge, are your three clients still
sitting members of the board of the road utility district?

A.
I know that Bill Neill is the chairman of the road
18
utility district today.
19
believe that either Mr. Miller or Mr. Davenport are still on
20
the road utility district.
21
22
Q.
I don't know for certain, but I do not
You mentioned there was an election last year.
were aware of how many people voted in that election?
23
A.
I actually don't know.
24
Q.
Back to Mr. Grant for a second.
25
You
on this.
I want to be clear
You had conversations with him at some point during

281-723-9090
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this.
Mr. Grant was present, and Mr. Page was present?
Did you ever have a conversation where you were present,
A.
No.
Take that back, I'm sorry.
I believe during the civil trial there was day
that Mr. Grant attended to observe and I believe on a break
that he and I and Mr. Page exchanged pleasantries in the
hallway.
were all at the same place at the same time.
So I think that there was indeed one occasion when we
MR. WALKER:
Pass the witness.
10
THE COURT:
Anything else?
11
MR. WHITE:
Yes, Your Honor.
12
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
13
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
14
BY MR. WHITE:
15
Q.
Mr. Walker raised several topics I'd like to just
16
address quickly with you.
Dirk Laukien, being a business owner
17
or being a property owner in the road utility district, that
18
would make him a taxpayer or not a taxpayer?
19
A.
For the road utility district a taxpayer.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
22
So would he be, perhaps, even a major taxpayer
or not in the grand scheme of things?

A.
I know that his facilities have a substantial amount
23
of value; but as far as what percentage in the overall
24
district, I have no idea.
25
Q.
Okay.
And he is a taxpayer that also happens to have

281-723-9090
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a residential property; is that correct?
A.
He does.
Q.
So the address we talked about earlier, 2630 Crescent
Ridge, is that his personal residence?
A.
It is.
Q.
And how is that property zoned?
A.
It is a residence, and it is zoned residential.
Q.
Okay.
9
10
Is that property zoned separately from the
commercial business properties that are adjacent to it?

A.
It is.
Of course, The Woodlands doesn't have zoning.
11
We generally refer to them as restrictions or covenants.
12
talk about what kind of facility that you can have, but it's
13
the same idea.
14
Q.
Okay.
They
In terms of the taxes on the business property
15
versus the taxes on the residential property, are those set up
16
appropriately or is there some overlap between the two?
17
A.
They are separate pieces of property and they are
18
separately appraised by the appraisal district and they are
19
separately taxed by the tax appraisal district and the entities
20
that tax them, so they are separate.
21
22
Q.
Are you aware if Mr. Laukien an his wife Katie have a
homestead exemption on that property at 2630?
23
A.
I am aware, and they do.
24
Q.
Could you describe that residence for us, because
25
there's been some impression of the overall area in terms of

281-723-9090
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being an office building or commercial properties?
explain the residence?
A.
Yeah.
It is not commercial.
Could you
It is a residential
property.
photographs of, and I have been at the Laukiens' home at their
invitation.
red brick Colonial by any means.
building; but it has a patio, it has a swimming pool, it has
bedroom, it has kitchen, it has bathroom.
10
It is a property that I have been to, I have taken
It is a modern style building, that is, it's not a
It has everything
that you and I might think of when we think of a home.
11
12
It is modern-looking
MR. WHITE:
Permission to approach the witness,
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
Your Honor?
13
14
Q.
(By Mr. White)
15
A.
It just looks a little bit different from the outside
16
17
18
Sorry to interrupt.
because they preferred a modern style of architecture.

Q.
Okay.
Mr. Walker asked you if you had taken photos
of the home and you responded that you had; is that correct?
19
A.
That is correct.
20
Q.
Handing you State's 29.
21
photographs?
22
A.
I do.
23
Q.
Are those, in fact, photographs that you took?
24
A.
They are the photographs I took of the Laukiens'
25
Do you recognize those
house.

281-723-9090
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Q.
And the general timeframe of those photographs is
A.
Again, the month of May 2010.
Q.
Okay.
what?
depict that residence on -- in May of 2010?
A.
7
8
And do those photographs fairly and accurately
They do.
MR. WHITE:
State's Exhibit 29.
MR. WALKER:
No objection.
10
THE COURT:
11
12
Q.
(By Mr. White)
It's admitted.
And since a picture is worth a
13
thousand words, you were describing this home to the jury and
14
for unfortunately these are a little bit blurry, especially
15
when we put them on the overhead.
16
here?
17
A.
But what are we looking at
The thing on the left-hand side of the photo, this is
18
actually the mailbox at the facility.
You can see it's got the
19
address number and the name on the right side.
20
patio entrance into the home.
This is the
21
Q.
And what do we see here in this photograph?
22
A.
This is the exterior of the home.
You can see it has
23
the modern style of architecture that was describing and
24
that's -- this right here is the gate into that patio area.
25
Q.
And where was this photograph taken?

281-723-9090
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1
2
A.
That is one part of the Laukiens' closet, master
closet in this particular instance.
Q.
And this photograph?
A.
That is another part of the master closet.
Q.
What is this photograph taken of?
A.
This is the family room area.
You can see that he --
Mr. Laukien, in particular, liked modern style architecture
inside the home, also.
He had kind of modern furniture pieces.
Q.
And where was this photograph taken?
10
A.
This is in the master bathroom.
11
Q.
And let me ask you this.
You seemed to have not
12
taken quite as many photographs of their home.
13
reason for the number that you took?
14
15
A.
No.
Is there a
I mean, it had what I needed to see and I took
pictures of what I thought was important to see.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
A.
I did take a photo in -- I think that there was a
18
Did you take a photo in each room?
powder room or a half bathroom that I did not.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
This was the family room or living room.
21
So this represented a photo of what room?

Again,
modern couch and TV stand and speaker.
22
Q.
And the final photo was taken where?
23
A.
This is Katie Laukien actually in the picture in the
24
kitchen, and she was actually just about to make dinner when I
25
was taking the photographs.

281-723-9090
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Q.
Okay.
Mr. Walker asked you about the number of
voters that purported to be of residence.
talking about residents -- we're talking about individuals who
had voter registrations that were inside the RUD.
remember answering questions about that?
A.
I did.
Q.
Okay.
8
9
Really, we're
Do you
What I'd like to ask you is what is it that
has to be done to become registered to vote in a specific area?

A.
Well, back in 2010, a person had to fill out a
10
voter's registration application or a card; but occasionally,
11
if I'm remembering correctly, for 2010, when you obtained your
12
driver's license, on your driver's license application there, I
13
believe, was a box that you could check to also request being
14
registered to vote at your driver's license address.
15
Q.
So in addition to filling out a voter registration
16
application and providing an address there, which we've seen
17
some examples of today --
18
A.
19
Q.
20
21
Correct.
-- one would be able to check a box on a driver's
license when you're applying at the DMV, I suppose?

A.
There was back in 2010.
I'm not sure if there still
22
is today, but it was part of a motor voter bill is what they
23
called it.
24
25
Q.
Okay.
And filling out a voter registration
application or checking that box at the DMV or having that box

281-723-9090
105
checked for you, does that make one an eligible voter?
A.
I would -- I would say the answer is no.
It enabled
a person to get a voter's registration card; but unless the
person met the requirements to be an eligible voter, they would
not be.
MR. WALKER:
I'm going to object.
for the ultimate conclusion of the case.
THE COURT:
Q.
(By Mr. White)
That calls
Overruled.
Is residency a requirement for
10
eligibility?
11
A.
It is.
12
Q.
And Mr. Walker asked you about some of these
13
individuals that happened to be registered at business
14
addresses in the RUD.
15
individuals ever vote?
To your knowledge, did any of these
16
A.
They did not.
17
Q.
Did any of them vote in the 2010 election?
18
A.
They did not.
I mean, the ten individuals did and
19
Dirk and Kate Laukien did; but the other individuals that were
20
being referred to that had registered an address inside the
21
district at a business or otherwise did not vote.
22
23
24
25
Q.
Okay.
And do we have any idea who all these people
A.
I did a little bit of investigation into it, and I
are?
have a little bit of knowledge about it.

281-723-9090
106
Q.
Okay.
Did you run across anybody who lived or
claimed to live legitimately in the road utility district that
was interested in voting in elections?
4
5
6
A.
The answer is no, besides the two Laukiens who had an
actual residence inside the district.

Q.
Now, Mr. Walker also asked you about what would
happen in the absence of the RUD.
to Montgomery County, and I believe you said that some might or
they would?
10
A.
The answer is it would fall
There are roads that are inside the bounds of the
11
road utility district that would otherwise be the
12
responsibility of Montgomery County, correct.
13
Q.
So in absence of the RUD that funds those roads
14
currently, if the RUD were gone, what would be the consequences
15
in terms of taxes to the residence of Montgomery County?
16
17
18
A.
I don't currently pay taxes for those roads; but
absent the road utility district, I would.

Q.
And in terms of the business that the road utility
19
district brings in and the purpose for why it was created and
20
set up in the way that it does, was that purpose to spread the
21
tax burden out or to concentrate it on a group of people or
22
even residents of The Woodlands?
23
A.
It is not by coincidence that the major commercial
24
properties that are located on the major roads in The Woodlands
25
form the tax base for those roads.
Businesses need good

281-723-9090
107
access.
users to them.
basis for this district to help support the very roads that
they wanted and needed, which are to the benefit of the rest of
us, too.
Businesses need roads to bring shoppers or service
Q.
And it is by design that they form the taxing
But it's no coincidence.

And is The Woodlands Road Utility District and its
roads, does it bring in primarily outside traffic or does it
bring in Woodlands residence to those retail outlets and
professional services and whatever businesses are there?
10
A.
It is both and, in particular, at the peak rush-hour
11
time periods in The Woodlands, the traffic counts reflect that
12
there is a greater inflow on those roads than outflow, bringing
13
employees, bringing shoppers, bringing people to those
14
addresses rather than from those addresses.
15
Q.
In regard to the questions that Mr. Walker asked
16
about the requirements for voter registration, he presented a
17
scenario where a voter had not registered within the 30-day
18
deadline, but actually was a resident of that district or that
19
precinct?
20
A.
Okay.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
I am familiar with a provisional ballot.
23
Q.
What is a provisional ballot?
24
A.
If a person comes to the polls and says, hi, I'm here
25
Are you familiar with a provisional ballot?
to vote, and the election official looks down at their list of

281-723-9090
108
registered voters or enters it in their computer, depending on
the particular election, and the person is not designated on
the list of registered voters for that election, the voter can
still cast a ballot.
called a "provisional ballot."
express their desire for who they want to vote for and who they
want to elect in the election and then later a decision can be
made as to whether or not it is a legitimate ballot.
provisional in the sense of they get to cast it, they get to
And the kind of ballot that they cast is

It is -- it allows the voter to
10
make their vote.
11
to whether or not they are eligible and legal to vote.
12
Q.
So it's
And then later on a determination is made as
So if a voter is in a situation that was described,
13
where they're actually a resident, but they became a resident
14
within 30 days of the election, do they have to lie on a voter
15
registration application ahead of time or can they just show up
16
on the day of the election and cast a provisional ballot?
17
18
19
A.
They certainly do not have to lie and they certainly
can fill out a provisional ballot.

Q.
In regard to the road utility district tax being a
20
business expense, some questions were asked on that.
Do all
21
businesses generally pay for the infrastructure that serves
22
them in one way or another?
23
A.
In one form or fashion or another, they do.
24
Q.
Not just businesses inside the RUD, but do all
25
businesses?

281-723-9090
109
A.
Businesses everywhere have to pay for the facilities
that they use.
to them, they have to pay for electricity to be brought to
them.
for wires to be installed to bring the services to their
facility.
infrastructure that are required for their businesses.
8
9
They have to -- if they don't have electricity
If they don't have computer services, they have to pay
Q.
So businesses are generally responsible for the
And we talked about land that's actually been added
to the RUD where businesses like Wal-Mart, for example, have
10
petitioned to be included in the RUD.
11
businesses -- some businesses are getting into the RUD.
12
question would be:
13
get out of the RUD?
14
A.
So we know that
My
Are there any businesses that are trying to
To my knowledge, there has not ever been a business
15
that has petitioned to be excluded from or removed from the
16
RUD.
17
Q.
All right.
So if a business like Wal-mart wants
18
better roads, better infrastructure, is the RUD available to
19
consider annexing their property and improving the roads?
20
A.
Yes, with one caveat.
I think that it has to be a
21
business that is adjacent to the existing boundaries of the
22
road utility district.
23
could not petition to be a part of The Woodlands Road Utility
24
District.
25
that.
That is, a business here in Conroe
I don't think that their enabling legislation allows

281-723-9090
110
1
2
Q.
And you were asked also about the Board of Directors
meetings in 2010 being at 24 Waterway, that building?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Which is owned by 24 Waterway, LLC?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And I believe that you testified also that
Mr. Laukien has some interest in that LLC; is that correct?
A.
That -- he does.
Q.
Now, does the Board of Directors and, hence -- I
10
should say does the RUD have to pay rent for office space?
11
A.
12
office space.
13
space inside that building.
14
15
Q.
Today, I do not know where the RUD meets or leases
Okay.
And does the RUD or the Board of Directors
require office space for its daily operations?
16
A.
17
very minimal.
18
staff.
19
In 2010, I do not believe that they were leasing
Q.
I don't believe that they do; or if they do, it's

They don't have paid staff.
At least back in 2010.
It's contract
I'm not sure about today.
Now, if the RUD had to pay rent for the Board of
20
Directors to have offices or meetings rooms or things like
21
that, where would those funds come from?
22
23
24
25
A.
From the taxpayers, that is, the commercial entities
that were the taxpayers for the RUD.

Q.
So if one of the taxpayers or business property
owners donated space for a meeting for the RUD, would that

281-723-9090
111
1
2
reduce their tax bill, essentially?

A.
Essentially if the road utility district was allowed
to use a meeting room, that's another expense that they didn't
have or another expense that they wouldn't have to tax for.
Q.
In regard to open records and how those records are
housed, all the records of the road utility district, does the
RUD pay for office space and storage space for their own
records?
A.
I actually don't know the answer to that.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
I'm not sure where they keep the records.
I just
12
know that when I needed to make an open records request, that I
13
was asked to send it to the Schwartz, Page & Harding law firm,
14
to their attorneys.
15
Q.
Is it possible that they outsource the recordkeeping
16
and their storage so that they don't have to have an ongoing
17
expense of office space?
18
A.
That's perfectly allowable under state law.
19
MR. WHITE:
20
21
22
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
23
24
25
Pass the witness, Your Honor.
When you -MR. WALKER:
What's the exhibit on the Laukien
pictures?
THE COURT:
29.

281-723-9090
112
MR. WALKER:
MR. WHITE:
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Is that admitted?
Yes.
On No. 29, when you took those
pictures, you didn't have to pick the lock.
You called the
Laukiens and said, "Hey, I need to come over and take some
pictures," right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Or, no, I didn't have to pick the lock.
Are you aware of any -Yes, I
10
called them and asked them if I could take pictures.
11
enforcement representatives were around, so...
12
13
14
15
Q.
Okay.
No law
Were there any -- are you aware of any other
residential properties owned by Mr. or Ms. Laukien?

A.
I know I saw a reference to them owning property in
another state, but I don't have any real knowledge of that.
16
Q.
What about Montgomery County, if you're aware?
17
A.
I'm not aware of other residential property that they
18
own in Montgomery County.
19
MR. WALKER:
20
THE COURT:
All right.
21
MR. WHITE:
Yes, Your Honor.
22
THE COURT:
All right.
23
break for lunch.
24
Ladies and Gentlemen.
25
I'll pass the witness.

May this man be excused?
We're going to take a
Can everyone please return back at 1:30,

Thank you.
You are excused.
(At this time the jury exits the courtroom.)

281-723-9090
113
(At this time a lunch break is taken.)
(Continuation after lunch.)
THE COURT:
Who's next?
MR. WHITE:
It will be Richard McDuffee.
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
All right.
We are ready to proceed.
MR. WHITE:
State calls Richard McDuffee.
10
THE COURT:
Mr. McDuffee, please come forward.
11
(Witness is sworn.)
Call your
RICHARD MCDUFFEE,
having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
14
DIRECT EXAMINATION
15
BY MR. WHITE:
16
Q.
17
Thank you.
next witness.
12
13
Please bring the jury in.
Good afternoon, Mr. McDuffee.
Could you please
introduce yourself to the jury?
18
A.
Richard McDuffee, Montgomery County, Texas.
19
Q.
And you're doing well right now, but if you can keep
20
leaning into that microphone which is directly in front of you
21
and we'll be able to hear you.
22
Appreciate it.
Mr. McDuffee, what was your roll in the May 8,
23
2010, Woodlands Road Utility District election?
24
rephrase that.
25
Let me
What connection did you have with that election?

281-723-9090
114
1
2
3
A.
Being friends with Jim Jenkins and others that were a
part of it -- ultimately became part of it.

Q.
Okay.
And did you participate in a scheme to vote in
the road utility district?
MR. WALKER:
"scheme," Your Honor.
7
8
THE COURT:
Well, how would you characterize it?
Do you understand the question?
WITNESS:
THE COURT:
11
Go ahead.
13
Q.
Can you answer that question?
I believe so, yes.
10
12
Object to the characterization of
(By Mr. White)
Overruled.
Did you participate in a scheme to
vote in the road utility district?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And I use the word "scheme" --
16
THE COURT:
I'm sorry, you can't hear?
17
Please, I've got this volume up at 90 percent
18
and anything more gets feedback.
19
speak into the microphone.
20
with us.
21
Q.
(By Mr. White)
So if everyone can please
Thank you very much for working
In your response to the question
22
whether or not you participated in the scheme to vote in the
23
road utility district was "yes."
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
Okay.
Is that correct?
And are you offended by my use of the word

281-723-9090
115
"scheme"?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you think that that properly characterizes more or
less what it was?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
The basic idea after the original meeting was to get
Well, tell us what the basic idea was.
as many voters as you could to register in the district of the
RUD, that is, a defined boundary inside Montgomery County, and
10
to go and vote for their election, to vote three of us onto the
11
board.
12
13
Q.
And were you one of those members that were to be
elected to the board?
14
A.
Somehow I was selected to been the president.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
Was there one individual that brought the idea to
18
19
20
21
22
23
Was this your idea?
this group of ten?

A.
The one that I would -- correct.
The one who brought
forth to me to be the president was Mr. Jim Jenkins.

Q.
Okay.
And do you know who conceived of the actual
idea to vote in this election?

A.
Jim was the biggest cheerleader for us at the
24
original meeting that was discussed.
25
broke up.
That did not last.
It
But he put forth the idea to reregister into the

281-723-9090
116
1
2
3
district.
Q.
And when you say "Jim," you're referring to Jim
Jenkins; is that correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
We also have another Jim involved in this whole
scheme and that Jim is who?
A.
Jim Doyle.
Q.
And is Jim the husband of Sybil Doyle who's the
Defendant in this case?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
And he's is father of Roberta Cook who is the other
12
Defendant in this case; is that correct?
13
A.
That's what understand, yes.
14
Q.
All right.
15
Mr. McDuffee?
16
A.
17
So where do you live and reside,
I reside on Hansons Court in Bender's Landing Estates
in Montgomery County, Texas.
18
Q.
Okay.
And how long have you lived there?
19
A.
I'm trying to recall the year we built our house.
20
believe it was 2007 Hurricane Ike had passed through.
21
in right after that.
22
23
Q.
Okay.
We moved
So since Hurricane Ike in 2007, have you lived
there continuously?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
What subdivision?

281-723-9090
117
A.
Bender's Landing Estates.
Q.
Bender's Landing, okay.
3
4
5
How long have you lived in this area in

Montgomery County or this area?
A.
Total time would be about seven and a half years.
We
lived in the county moving back from Johnson County, Texas, and
then having the house built.
years.
Q.
Okay.
A total of about seven and a half
Did you ever intend to leave your home and
10
give up your residence in Bender's Landing Estates and move
11
into the Residence Inn hotel?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
What was the idea behind registering to vote at that
14
address?
15
A.
Came from Mr. Jenkins.
16
Q.
Well, let me -- let's leave out who it came from and
17
18
It was that it was --
just talk about what the idea was.

A.
The idea was to get ten or more to change their
19
voting registration to inside of the district to vote in the
20
upcoming election.
21
22
Q.
Okay.
Now, where you reside and where you resided at
the time is Bender's Landing Estates; is that correct?
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
And were you eligible or not eligible to vote in this
25
RUD election from where you lived?

281-723-9090
118
A.
No.
Q.
You were not eligible?
A.
Not eligible.
Q.
And you knew that; is that right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Now, do you pay taxes to the RUD on your home because
of your property that you own in Bender's Estate?
A.
No.
Q.
And to your knowledge, does anyone in this group of
10
ten live in the RUD and pay RUD taxes?
11
A.
No property taxes.
12
Q.
At any time during this whole period going back to
13
2010 and even before, did anyone, to your knowledge, live in
14
the RUD and pay road utility district taxes?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
I'm going to show you what's marked as State's
17
Exhibit 7.
And these are the certified voter registration
18
applications change forms.
Do you recognize these documents?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
And is the one that you're looking at right now in
21
State's 7, is that your voter registration application form?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
And if you'll look on the monitor there in front of
24
you.
Was there some points with this group where these forms
25
were either passed out or talked about that you guys needed to

281-723-9090
119
1
2
fill these forms out?

A.
We were encouraged to fill the form out, to retrieve
the form and submit it.
own form up or if I picked up a blank form at Jim Jenkins'
office.
Q.
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
Okay.
I cannot say if I went and picked my
And how was the address 9333 Six Pines Drive
decided on?
A.
It was well inside of the district.
That decision
would have come from Jim Jenkins.

Q.
And were you aware at the time that it was a Marriott
Residence Inn?
A.
I was familiar with the name.
It was a Marriott
hotel and I had seen it and been passed it many times.

Q.
Now, did ten people, yourself included,
15
simultaneously decide that they're going to leave their homes
16
and move into a Marriott Residence Inn that just happened to be
17
at the same address?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
What was the purpose in changing your voter
20
21
registration address to the Six Pines Drive?

A.
The idea was we would all about unified being at one
22
location and the address was posted on the wall in Mr. Jenkins'
23
office.
24
Q.
25
Now, on No. 9 on this form, can you read that?
need to zoom in a little?

281-723-9090
Do I
120
A.
I got it there.
Q.
All right.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Against providing false information?
A.
Right.
Q.
Did it inform you that it was a crime to provide
Yes, I can read it.
Did you understand that to be a warning?
false information on this form?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did that give you any pause when you signed this form
10
and swore that your residence address is 9333 Six Pines?
11
A.
Can I expound on that answer or just "yes" or "no"?
12
Q.
Sure.
At the time when you filled this form out and
13
provided the residence address as 9333 Six Pines Drive, did
14
this warning here that you would be committing perjury, giving
15
false information, procure voter registration is a perjury and
16
a crime under state and federal law, did that warning give you
17
any concern and, if so, what, or if not, what?
18
A.
Well, it did give concern because it's there.
But
19
information I was given from a lawyer in the county and back
20
case law that it was very seldom ever prosecuted.
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
Okay.
So did you feel that this was true information
when you provided it?

A.
I would say -- I couldn't call the attorney being
fraudulent because I did not research case law.

Q.
Okay.

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1
2
3
A.
So I took it upon his word that it would fly under
the radar.
Q.
Okay.
So when you filled out this form and swore to
the address at the Marriott Residence Inn as your residence,
first off, had you ever stayed there?
A.
No.
Q.
Had you ever rented a room there?
A.
No.
Q.
Had you ever even been in the building?
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
And the advise or whatever it was that you received,
12
it indicated to you, if I'm understanding you right, that there
13
was a low probability of you being prosecuted?
14
15
MR. WALKER:
Object to leading, Your Honor.
I'm
objecting to leading.
16
MR. WHITE:
I was doing a clarifying question.
17
THE COURT:
Overruled.
18
question.
19
20
Let him ask the
If you want to re-urge it, you may.

Go ahead.
Q.
(By Mr. White)
So that I understand you correctly,
21
are you saying it's a fair statement that when you provided
22
that address, that you believed that there was a low
23
probability of prosecution for providing that information as
24
your residence address?
25
MR. WALKER:
Same objection, Your Honor.

281-723-9090
122
Leading.
THE COURT:
Overruled.
Q.
(By Mr. White)
You can answer the question.
A.
Yes.
Q.
And for wherever you were at that time in your
I believed it was a very low possibility.
thinking process, was that a risk you were willing to take at
that point?
8
9
A.
It had to be because I took the risk.
It still was a
little nagging; but, you know, kind of give your faith and
10
trust to somebody who's in the business of the law and actually
11
researching it.
12
13
14
Q.
Okay.
So is this something that the group had
discussed?
A.
The group is hard to say it's a group.
If one of us
15
was in it, it was discussed.
16
Jim Jenkins' office, there may have been two.
17
everybody that was involved in it being inside one of these
18
meetings, I say the chance was very slim to none.
19
20
Q.
If there had to be two people in

But as far as
Did anybody actually move into the hotel and move out
of their homes?
21
A.
No one moved out of their homes to the hotel prior to
22
the election.
23
Q.
Did anybody pack anything more than an overnight bag
24
for the hotel the night of -- or prior to the election, I
25
should say?

281-723-9090
123
A.
I cannot say because I was not present.
I was out of
county and when I returned it was 5:00 in the afternoon -- 4:00
or 5:00 o'clock, correction.
4
5
Q.
Okay.
So were you also one of the ones that did not
spend the night in the hotel before the election?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Okay.
And then you voted in that election on
May 8th, 2010, is it?
A.
That's correct.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
I voted and went home.
How many nights have you spent in the
Residence Inn at 9333 Six Pines in your lifetime?
12
A.
None.
13
Q.
After the election we've heard in this trial that the
14
result of that election which was you and Mr. Goeddertz and
15
Mr. Berntsen winning the director positions by a margin of ten
16
votes to three.
17
18
THE COURT:
two votes otherwise?
19
20
We have heard testimony that -Just a second.
Weren't there only
Isn't that what the record reflects?
MR. WHITE:
Yes, Your Honor.
I lost myself in
THE COURT:
That's all right.
Because I think
that question.
21
22
you said ten votes to three.
23
is not confused and the record is completely accurate.
24
you.
25
MR. WHITE:
Just to make sure that the jury

281-723-9090
Thank
124
1
2
Q.
(By Mr. White)
So the margin was ten votes to two;
is that correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
After the result of that election was in, we have
heard that the result of that election was contested.
correct?
Is that
A.
Yes.
Q.
And after that occurred and the group heard that
9
10
there was going to be a challenge to the election results, what

did the group do?
11
A.
Well, since none of us are really election people or
12
in law, we just had to rely upon Mr. Jenkins and on his
13
attorney of what was happening.
14
Q.
And that attorney's name was?
15
A.
Eric Yollick.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
And what were you advised to do in regards to
the upcoming election contest?
18
A.
Can I put it in context?
19
Q.
Yes.
20
A.
Because the way we were advised was an emergency
21
called meeting at Mr. Yollick's office, 6:00 o'clock.
22
basically walked in and said you're going to trial.
23
24
25
And I
Q.
Okay.
And what was the response of the group to
A.
I think we all went home shaking our heads trying to
that?

281-723-9090
125
understand what was going to happen.
Q.
Was there some concern?
A.
There were a lot of questions, but the bottom line
4
5
6
was get ready to go to court.

Q.
And in the upcoming days and weeks in preparing for
court, what other advice did the group receive?
A.
I'm going back step one on you.
Q.
Sure.
A.
It was a very big tongue lashing by an attorney of
10
only two rooms being rented for ten people and two of them
11
being married women.
12
Q.
Are we talking about Eric Yollick?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
So where was this meeting; do you recall?
15
A.
At Mr. Yollick's office.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
18
group.
A.
And at Mr. Yollick's office, he chastised the
How would you characterize it and what was said?

Chastised the group, I would say sort of.
Mr.
19
Jenkins was kind of the one instigating the rooms and paying
20
for the rooms.
21
being the one night.
22
23
24
25
Q.
Okay.
That just wasn't going to cut it.
Especially
So remind us of how many rooms had actually
been rented prior to the election.

A.
Then night -- I think the day before the election,
they rented one room so they could say we spent one night in

281-723-9090
126
the hotel and went and voted and went home.
2
3
Q.
Okay.
Is it possible that Mr. Jenkins rented a room
and Mr. Curry also might have rented a room that night?
A.
That was never discussed.
Q.
But Mr. Yollick mentioned something about two rooms.
What was that?
7
8
It was get rooms rented.
A.
Mr. Jenkins, as far as I know, paid for two rooms for
the night and that was it.
Q.
Okay.
What did Mr. Yollick say about that?
10
A.
You can't have ten people in two rooms in the
11
Residence Inn.
12
were married and their husband's were not present in the group
13
of ten.
14
Q.
Are those the two ladies in the courtroom today?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
So what were you advised to do going forward in
17
You're only allowed four.
preparing for this election contest?
18
A.
19
as possible.
20
desk.
21
the swimming pool, basketball court.
22
Two of the women
More presence in the Residence Inn.
Have mail forwarded there and held at the front
Have several breakfasts there.
Q.
Be there as much
Okay.
Pictures taken out by

Movement in and out.
I'm going to show you what's marked as -- when
23
I find it here -- State's Exhibit 33.
24
photographs?
25
A.
Do you recognize these
Yes.

281-723-9090
127
1
2
Q.
that were taken at the Residence Inn as you just mentioned?
3
4
A.
Yes.
This would have been in the morning time.
Breakfast.
5
6
And as you flip through those, are these photographs
Q.
And do these photos fairly and accurately depict the
people and places and scenes that we see in them?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And what was the time period where these were taken?
A.
These were all taken during the breakfast time.
10
were serving breakfast at the hotel.
11
of the group would be there.
12
13
Q.
contest when these were taken?

A.
These are post election.
15
Q.
Post election, pre --
16
A.
Trial.
17
Q.
-- trial, okay.
18
MR. WHITE:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
23
25
May I take the witness on voir
dire?
22
24
State's going to offer State's
Exhibit 33.
20
21
These pictures here, most
But these were -- was it leading up to the election
14
19
They
Yes.

BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
Mr. McDuffee, all the pictures contained in State's

281-723-9090
128
Exhibit 33 were after the election at the Marriott, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Did you ever see either of these two ladies, the
4
5
Defendants in this case, at that hotel after the election?

A.
No.
6
7
MR. WALKER:
I would object to relevance, Your
Honor.
THE COURT:
State's Exhibit 33 is admitted.
10
11
12
BY MR. WHITE:
13
Q.
14
Overruled.
In this first photo -- Mr. McDuffee, can you see that
on your screen?
15
A.
Yeah, I can make it out.
16
Q.
This individual right here, can you identify him?
17
A.
That's Mr. Doyle.
18
Q.
Is that Jim Doyle?
19
A.
Jim Doyle.
20
Q.
The husband of the Defendant, Sybil Doyle?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
And can you make out this individual right next to
23
him here?
24
A.
That would be Adrian Heath.
25
Q.
Okay.
That's the head of Adrian Heath.

281-723-9090
129
1
2
And on the other side of the table from Mr. Jim

Doyle is?
A.
Mr. Jim Jenkins.
Q.
And can you make out this other individual?
A.
That is Mr. Tom Curry.
Q.
And the next photograph?
A.
That is myself.
Q.
All right.
A.
Looking over the paperwork supposedly for work.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
You say "supposedly."
A.
Posing.
13
Q.
Okay.
17
And is this one of your business documents
here that you're holding up for the camera?
15
16
Were you really doing
paperwork here, or were you posing for a photograph?
12
14
What are you doing in this photograph?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Okay.
That's the company's logo on the top of the
page.
And while we're talking about it and the
18
advice that you received to go and spend extra nights at the
19
Residence Inn -- well, first off, what was the purpose of your
20
spending those nights?
21
nights.
22
Or -- I'm sorry.
You didn't spend
But what's the purpose of spending time and
23
making appearances at the Residence Inn during this time
24
period?
25
A.
To give a credence for the trial that we had been

281-723-9090
130
there, that we're staying there, and it was kind of a
come-and-go situation.
actually -- young men who actually did -- they kept a room
rented for them at the inn.
5
6
Q.
Okay.
There were two gentleman who
Now, was this a thing where you guys are
actually living here or were you just making appearances?
A.
Making appearances.
Q.
Okay.
9
10
11
And what do you do for a living, Mr. McDuffee?
We were looking at your business documents here.

A.
At that time I had a security license, life insurance
license and several other licenses I had with Prime America.
12
Q.
And in this group of individuals here, who is this?
13
A.
Adrian Heath.
14
Q.
Who is next to him?
15
A.
Jim Doyle.
16
Q.
All right.
And we've got several pictures already
17
with Mr. Jim Doyle in them.
18
you never saw Ms. Doyle and Ms. Cook at the Residence Inn.
19
that correct?
20
A.
I never saw them there, no.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
Bill Berntsen.
23
Q.
Mr. Berntsen.
24
25
But your testimony before was that

Is
Who is this individual in the yellow shirt?
And who is in the blue shirt here holding the

envelope?

281-723-9090
131
A.
That would be Tom Curry.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Again, that was mail he had sent to the residence and
it got held at the front desk.
5
6
Do you have any idea what this envelope is?
Q.
Okay.
Are you saying he sent himself a letter at the
hotel?
A.
I cannot testify as to who sent it.
I just know we
were all encouraged to have mail sent to the Residence Inn and
held at the front desk for us to come and retrieve it from the
10
front desk.
11
12
Q.
Okay.
Did you ever send yourself a letter at the
Residence Inn?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
What's the purpose of sending yours a letter there?
15
A.
Photograph and staff at the hotel knowing you by
Q.
Okay.
16
17
18
face.
Is this Mr. Berntsen here again intrigued with
the newspaper?
19
A.
Correct.
20
Q.
This appears to be Jim Jenkins.
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Who is next to Mr. Jenkins just in front of you?
23
A.
That would be -- the one diagonal across would be the
24
25
Is that right?
Allisons, the brothers.

Q.
And Ben Allison with the glasses; is that correct?

281-723-9090
132
A.
Correct.
Q.
And who is this?
A.
I don't remember -- I had a hard enough time
Do you remember the other --
remembering Allison, so...
Q.
Does Robert sound familiar?
A.
Robert.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you have any idea what that document is?
10
A.
I cannot make it out.
11
Q.
I don't know if it can be made out.
Ben and Robert, yes.
Is this Mr. Berntsen posing again?
I was just
12
wondering if you knew what the significance -- were there
13
significance to the documents that were posed with in these
14
photographs?
15
A.
The imprint was that you were receiving mail there,
16
so you were coming and going from the hotel on a regular basis.
17
So you would have mail sent there so you could get there and
18
pick it up there without having to go someplace else to pick it
19
up.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
A.
It was make sure -- the newspaper especially was to
22
be in photos because the headlines would give date from the
23
Chronicle.
24
25
Q.
And was that the reality of the situation is that you
guys were kind of living at this hotel, or was this just for

281-723-9090
133
appearances?
A.
For appearance.
Q.
Is this photograph of Jim Jenkins here?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
to the hotel?
A.
That would be one of his grandsons.

And do you know why he brought his grandsons
Again, for the appearance.
I don't know if they even
used the pool or just came by and walked in and said "hi" and
left.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
I wasn't there that day, at that time.

Q.
Okay.
Who is the smirking individual holding the
newspaper?
A.
That is Tom Curry with a classic photo of the Houston
Chronicle being held in front.

Q.
Okay.
So this newspaper photo, what was that
supposed to indicate or prove?

A.
Well, it gave you the fact that the day of that
17
Chronicle was published to kind of lend credence to the time
18
the picture was taken.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
And this is another breakfast?
In regards to these breakfasts, had you guys
22
all rented rooms and were you-all guests at the hotel when you
23
were eating breakfast at the hotel?
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
So you guys just stopped by and picked up some

281-723-9090
134
breakfast and coffee and stuff like that.
happened?
A.
Yes, for photo op.
Is that what
I mean, they had two rooms and
they'd move up from there so each room could have four
occupants.
So walk in and sit down as a group.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Who is this?
A.
Mr. Berntsen.
10
Q.
This appears to be a classic Richard McDuffee
11
Another newspaper photo?
newspaper photo; is that right?
12
A.
Yeah.
13
Q.
I'm not sure if we had seen this individual yet or
14
I don't know what was in the paper that day.
not right here?
15
A.
That would be Mr. Goeddertz.
16
Q.
Pete Goeddertz?
17
A.
Pete Goeddertz.
18
Q.
And this is Mr. Goeddertz here again sitting with
19
Mr. Curry?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Across the table from whom?
22
A.
That would be Adrian Heath from that head.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
Mr. Berntsen?
25
A.
And more of Mr. Curry, Mr. Goeddertz, and
Correct.

281-723-9090
135
Q.
And what's this a picture of?
A.
We went out and sat by the outdoor seating
arrangement and someone was taking pictures.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Using the amenities of the hotel.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
What's going on in this photo?
A.
I would say the other end of the table there would be
Here you are again?
10
just chitchat at that end and I found something interesting in
11
the paper I was reading.
12
Q.
And what is this a photograph of?
13
A.
That was the evening that I think four went down and
14
were shooting hoops on the basketball court.
15
Q.
In front of the Residence Inn; is that correct?
16
A.
I believe the sidewalk comes from left to right at
17
the front door.
18
Q.
Okay.
Tom Curry again posing with the basketball at
19
the entrance?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Can you explain this photo to us?
22
A.
Later in the time of this, the Allisons actually were
23
given -- brothers were given a room to stay in the inn and
24
leave from work from there, so they had some clothes hanging up
25
in the closet.
I'm believing that's the Allisons' clothing.

281-723-9090
136
can't swear to that, but that was part of it of leaving clothes
hanging in closets.
3
4
Q.
Okay.
Now, certainly, this isn't all the clothes
that somebody owns, do you think?
A.
No.
Q.
Where were the rest of their clothes?
A.
They had been at their parents' home.
Q.
Here we have Adrian Heath.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Technical difficulties.
11
Be back momentarily, I'm
sure.
12
All right.
Can you tell what Mr. Heath is
13
holding here?
14
A.
Looks like a Montgomery County voter registration
Q.
All right.
15
16
17
18
card.
Now, during this time period, how often
would you try to make an appearance at the hotel?

A.
Two, maybe three times a week.
Breakfast time.
One
19
evening I stopped by.
20
That's why I was aware of the basketball game because you could
21
see it from his window.
22
Q.
Okay.
Mr. Goeddertz had rented his own room.
This sounds like it was a fairly concerted
23
effort, a fairly dedicated effort to make an appearance.
24
would you characterize it?
25
A.
It was dedicated, but it was after the fact.

281-723-9090
How
137
Q.
Okay.
Let me ask you this then.
After the election
contest was resolved, everything is done, did you ever go back
to the hotel and make an appearance?
A.
No.
Q.
To your knowledge, did anybody go back?
A.
Not to my knowledge, no.
Q.
Okay.
And the places that you-all returned to, was
it the homes that you were living in before this whole deal
happened?
10
11
12
A.
I would say everybody did because no one had any
other place to go live except their residence.

Q.
Okay.
All right.
Mr. McDuffee, after the election
13
was over, after the election contest and that suit was come and
14
gone, did you eventually learn that this voting scheme might
15
become a criminal matter?
16
17
And I'll rephrase the question if it helps.
Did
you learn of an investigation regarding this election?
18
A.
Yes, we learned of an investigation.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
I want to say from Jim Jenkins, from Eric Yollick's
21
office.
22
Q.
23
Okay.
How did you learn of that?
And are we talking about a criminal matter
that you learned about?
24
A.
I'm trying to remember -- the intervenors, going to
25
that court --

281-723-9090
138
1
2
Q.
Let me just ask you if you learned at some point
about a Grand Jury investigation?
A.
That's what I was trying to distinguish.
Q.
All right.
A.
Trying to be real honest.
I --
about it.
Grand Jury.
But, yes,
Q.
How did you learn about that?

I remember vividly knowing
And I was given an opportunity to testify before a
Okay.
10
opportunity?
11
A.
And what did you do in response to that
I called the number on -- I guess I was given a --
12
received a piece of mail.
I don't think it was a summons.
13
was a voluntary coming and I called that number and left a
14
voice mail.
It
15
Q.
And at some point, did you and I speak?
16
A.
Yes, you called me that afternoon, I would say around
17
18
19
2:00 or something for you to see what my next step would be.
Q.
Okay.
And at that point, what did you tell me that
you wanted to do?
20
A.
I wanted to come and talk to the Grand Jury.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
You understood that there are potential
criminal consequences for voting in that election, right?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
And did I promise you any special treatment at that
25
time or that you wouldn't be prosecuted?

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1
2
3
4
5
A.
It was -- basically all I wanted to know is when
could I come and testify.

Q.
Okay.
And when you testified, what was your
objective?
A.
To get it off my chest.
To let some light shine on
it instead of doing it in the dark, those dark night meetings
and phone calls.
meetings.
No, I know there's no phone, but the
I was tired of it.
Q.
Okay.
Is that what you did?
10
A.
That's exactly what I did.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
A.
I was not processed or anything else.
Did you get indicted for illegal voting?

I just wanted
13
to testify and get this off my chest, get this behind me.
14
was not promised anything.
15
went that morning.
16
know that is I ruined a 200-dollar tire on my car trying to get
17
here on the freeway.
18
forward to is getting before the Grand Jury and talking to them
19
face to face and answering their questions.
It was a rainy, nasty day.
MR. WHITE:
21
MR. WALKER:
22
THE COURT:
24
25
The reason I
And that's the only thing I looked
20
23
I didn't ask for any favors.
Pass the witness.

May I proceed, Your Honor?
Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
So you voted in the May of 2010 road utility district

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election, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
In addition to that, you were a candidate on the
ballot; is that correct?
A.
My name was to be the president on the ballot, yes.
Q.
Okay.
here.
Let's get a little background information
How old are you?
A.
Currently I'm 65 years of age.
Q.
And what do you do for a living?
10
A.
Right now, I have no license and no jobs.
11
nothing.
I do
I'm retired.
12
Q.
What did you do before you retired?
13
A.
Financial advice, mutual funds, life insurance,
14
several other licenses.
15
them.
16
17
Q.
I never used them, but I had to get
So if I could put that under one heading, would it be
fair to say that you were a financial advisor?
18
A.
To an extent, yes.
19
Q.
And is that the type of work you did during your
20
entire working career?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
What else did you do?
23
A.
I've been everything from a carpenter to an
24
electronics in the oil field, neutron lab.
25
Several different fields.

281-723-9090
X-ray tech.
141
Q.
Do you have a college education?
A.
Two-year degree.
Q.
From?
A.
Back then it was called Houston Community College.
got another two-year, you would say, for becoming an X-ray
tech.
Q.
The -- let's talk about how -- what was your thought
process, what was your state of mind at the time of the
election, okay?
We're talking about -- what was the day? --
10
May 10th of -- no, May 8th of 2010.
11
Okay.
12
before the election?
Did you go up to the hotel the night
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Did you go up to the hotel the day of the election?
15
A.
4:00 o'clock in the afternoon in the parking lot.
16
Q.
So my answer to my question there is, yes, you did go
17
up to the hotel on the day of the election?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Now, when you entered that voting booth -- let's talk
20
about that.
21
22
Where was the voting held?

A.
The voting was held at The Woodlands Municipal
23
Building where people who live in The Woodlands would know.
24
It's where they go pay their property taxes and MUD taxes.
25
It's a little building kind of off in a hidden corner.

281-723-9090
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1
2
Q.
And did go up there by yourself or with anybody else
from this group of ten people?
A.
Mr. Jenkins is the one who drove me.
Q.
And you went in there to the voting booth by
yourself, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And you voted in the election, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Now, back to the point I was getting at.
10
11
12
By the way,
after you voted, what did you do then?

A.
Went over to the South Montgomery County Community
Building and voted in the college bonds.
13
Q.
So there was another election?
14
A.
There were two separate locations.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
A.
From there, I returned to the hotel and went home in
17
What did you do then?
my vehicle.
18
Q.
Did you ever go in the hotel?
19
A.
That day, no.
20
Q.
I'm going to paraphrase your testimony.
You tell me
21
if I get it wrong.
22
about what you knew on that day when you entered that voting
23
booth and voted in the road utility district election, okay?
24
That's what I'm talking about.
25
A.
We need it coming from you, not from me,
That specific moment, okay?
Uh-huh.

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1
2
Q.
Did you know that you were casting an illegal vote at
that time?
A.
As I knew the voting rules at that time and from a
letter I received the district attorney warning of it, yeah, I
was a little apprehension when I went and signed that.
6
7
Q.
Did you know that you were making an illegal vote?
Is it your opinion that you made an illegal vote today?
A.
Today, yes.
It was an illegal vote.
Q.
Let's talk about on the day of the election.
When
10
you walked in that voting booth, did you know that you were
11
costing an illegal vote?
12
A.
I had a doubt, but I did not have a total knowledge
13
of the law saying yes or no.
14
line.
15
Q.
So I can't draw a definitive
Would it be fair for me to say that your -- you had
16
some apprehension, but you did not know that you were casting
17
an illegal vote?
18
19
20
A.
I had apprehension on voting.
I cannot answer that
positively on yes or no.

Q.
And certainly you're not a man that makes a practice
21
of going out and committing felonies, especially felonies where
22
everybody has your address and knows who you are, correct?
23
24
25
A.
I do not believe a felony; but, no, I would not just
jump up and do it.

Q.
So you certainly didn't intend to commit an offense

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1
2
that day, a felony offense of illegal voting; is that correct?

A.
I have to go back to the letter from the district
attorney's office warning us all about the possibility of
prosecution for fraudulent vote.
office.
Q.
That came from Bret Ligon's
And you're referring to a letter, I believe, that
came from his first assistant district attorney --
A.
Mr. Phil Grant.
Q.
-- Phil Grant, correct?
10
A.
Correct.
11
Q.
Let's make sure we don't step over each other because
12
the Court Reporter will kill us both.
13
That letter came from Phil Grant, correct?
14
A.
It was signed by First District Attorney Phil Grant.
15
Q.
Do you have that letter with you?
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
If you saw that letter, would you recognize it?
18
A.
Good possibility.
I looked at mine briefly.
We
19
discussed it briefly.
Could never get a yes-or-no answer from
20
an attorney.
21
Q.
And you know Mr. Grant is an attorney, right?
22
A.
Oh, yes.
23
Q.
Did Mr. Grant's letter say, Mr. McDuffee, don't vote
24
in the March -- I'm sorry -- May 8, 2010, road utility district
25
election?

281-723-9090
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1
2
A.
It was a warning not to.
It was not saying
definitely you go vote, we'll see you the next day in court.
Q.
So did this letter cause you apprehension?
A.
It caused several of us apprehension.
We were at a
gathering for a different candidate that evening after we all
received it and I listened in on a conversation and he was
basically an attorney and saying there is a possibility you
could be prosecuted.
9
10
11
Q.
But it was not such that it stopped you from voting
in that election, correct?

A.
We had all gone that far, I don't think so.
I don't
12
know any of who were there and any of who came to vote --
13
changed their registration, did not vote.
14
Q.
Say that again.
15
A.
Those who are at the gathering --
16
Q.
Right.
17
A.
And everybody was not present at that little
18
gathering, we all had some kind of questions or listened in the
19
conversation with the attorney.
20
brothers' father who was asking him the question.
21
was a gray area that you could or may not.
22
voting irregularities in Texas that has never been prosecuted
23
and there have been some that were fully prosecuted.
24
25
Q.
So I'll ask it again.
I believe it was the Allison

And again it
There has been
First of all, you mentioned
something about the group and we're going to get to that as far

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as when we say "the group," who we're talking about because I'm
sure that's a shifting number of people, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Did everybody who changed their voting address to
that hotel, did they all vote in the road utility district
election as far as you know?
7
8
9
10
A.
Well, from Mr. Jenkins, he had ten who had changed
their addresses and ten voted.

Q.
And you walked in there of your own volition on that
day to vote, correct?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
Mr. Jenkins didn't have a gun on you, did he?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
He didn't force you to do it?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Mr. Jenkins doesn't have any magical powers that
17
overpowered your will and made you vote in that election,
18
correct?
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
That was a voluntary action on your part, correct?
21
A.
Yeah.
22
Q.
So I'll ask once again, at the time that you cast
23
that ballot, when you're sitting there, I don't know if it's
24
punch card or one of those screens they use now, when you're
25
voting in that election, did you know what you were doing was

281-723-9090
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casting an illegal vote?
Did you know it?
A.
It's illegal if you get prosecuted.
Q.
Well, not necessarily.
That jury gets to decide
whether you're guilty or not.
A.
If I run a red light, is that guilty, a violation?
Q.
Well, unfortunately, I don't -- I'm not sitting up
there on the hot seat.
questions.
You are.
So you have to answer the
But once again, I'm trying to get to the point.
10
What was in your brain?
What was your state of mind when
11
you're casting that ballot?
12
stuff before the election, the meetings and after the election
13
up there at the hotel.
14
did you have moral certainty, did you know that it was illegal?
I know there's a long history of
I'm talking at that specific moment,
15
A.
To the letter of the law, it was illegal.
16
Q.
Did you know that on --
17
A.
I read the back of the card and read it on the screen
18
here and, yes, it was a prosecutable offense by changing,
19
altering, lying upon this form and signing it and mailing it
20
in.
21
Q.
So your statement, your testimony here today is that
22
I knew I was committing a crime, but I thought I could get away
23
with that.
Is that a good summation?
24
A.
It would fly under the radar, ten votes.
25
Q.
Do you recall testifying before any hearing regarding

281-723-9090
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this matter?
A.
I've testified a few times, yes.
Q.
Do you recall giving a different answer when asked if
4
5
You've testified a few times, right?
you knew whether or not your vote on that day was illegal?
A.
There's been several trials and the way I answer the
question, is it 100 percent the way I say each trial?
No.
I -- I change the way I word something.
thought on the day of the vote, figured it was maybe a 50/50
percent chance, toss the coin, more than likely it was going to
Is it illegal?
Do
10
be maybe a nickle toss.
11
But it's blown up into this.
12
white on that day, at that moment I went in that little
13
building and signed on a little piece of paper because they did
14
not have a machine or anything.
15
ever held an election.
16
in the existence, they had never had -- there was no residence
17
in the district, so there was never any elections.
18
19
20
21
22
23
Q.
Not going to be worth time and effort.

So can I say I knew black and
It was the first time they had
From the time this RUD board had been
Let me ask you this.
Did you think that was fair?
Did you think that was right, not having elections?

A.
Well, not since there were actual six voters who
lived in the district this entire time.

Q.
And what was the intent of this plan ultimately as
far as the road utility district was?
24
A.
The instructions I got?
25
Q.
Uh-huh.

281-723-9090
149
A.
Very simple.
Mr. McDuffee, get elected to be the
president, pay off the bills, turn out the lights, and shut it
down.
It's that simple.
Q.
Where did those instructions come from?
A.
Mr. Jenkins.
6
7
MR. WALKER:
Judge, if I could have a second, I
need to go through the record and find the relevant sections.
THE COURT:
Sure.
MR. WHITE:
Your Honor, I have a signal from the
10
witness that he may need a break.
11
12
Can you inquire into that?
MR. WALKER:
It's going to take me a few
THE COURT:
We can all use a little break,
minutes, Judge.
13
14
right?
Let's take a break of about ten minutes, everyone.
15
we are in recess.
And
Thank you.
16
17
(At this time a break is taken.)
18
THE COURT:
19
Everybody be seated.
Thank you.
Mr. Walker, are you ready?

Let's bring the jury in,
20
please.
21
goes in and out.
22
stands up, they can see something.
23
everybody is standing up, people can move without being seen.
24
25
Everybody remain seated while the jury
It's a security thing so that if somebody

They can see that.

courtroom.)

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150
THE COURT:
Okay.
Please be seated.
I think we are ready to proceed.
Mr. Walker, you were on cross-examination.
MR. WALKER:
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Yes, sir.
Mr. McDuffee, back when we took a
break, we were talking about this issue of what you knew, what
was your state of mind when you entered that voting booth to
vote in the RUD election.
yes-or-no fashion, did you know you were committing a felony
10
offense when you cast that vote?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
If you can answer my question in a
Do you recall testifying in previous hearings
regarding this case?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And we had an opportunity to review some of that
16
testimony before you -- during the break, correct?
17
A.
Correct.
18
Q.
And you don't contest the copy of the transcript I
19
have as far as accuracy?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Those were the questions asked of you and those were
22
the answers you used?
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
Did you ever give a different answer to those
25
questions or similar type questions when asked about your state

281-723-9090
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1
2
3
4
5
6
of mind when you cast that ballot?

A.
The best I can remember, I never said that I thought
it was totally legal.

Q.
Let me ask the converse of that.
Did you ever think
it was totally illegal?

A.
illegal.
that --
Q.
Only if I was the Defendant.

Does that make sense?
It would be totally
I mean -- I'm just saying
Let me go ahead and go through these statements as
10
far as -- you testified here today that the first inkling of
11
concern you had regarding this whole process was upon receipt
12
of that letter from the district attorney's office.
13
correct?
Is that
14
A.
Reading the voter registration card is a warning.
15
Q.
Right.
16
A.
And I'm trying to recall when basically the attorney
17
18
19
20
21
22
said that it was a very big gray area in Texas.

Q.
Who was the this attorney that you keep -- you know
Mr. Yollick, right?

A.
Eric Yollick is the primary -- the only attorney I
could give you a name of.

Q.
When you were talking about this other attorney that
23
you sought advice from, it sounds like it was kind of an
24
informal meeting at some political function, right?
25
A.
It was after the election he was in, and he was -- I

281-723-9090
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can't even recall if he won that election or not.
Q.
you voted in?
A.
But the --
Was this -- this before or after the election that
It would have been -- come on, brain.
office previously as a judge of the county.
election.
statewide and he won that office.
He ran for
Lost that
So that's why I kind of get -- and then he ran for
Q.
I bet you're talking about John Devine?
A.
Correct.
10
Q.
Does that ring a bell?
11
A.
Uh-huh.
12
Q.
Okay.
So you -- he ran for a seat here in the county
13
and was defeated and then actually ran for the Supreme Court
14
and was elected a justice of the Texas Supreme Court, correct?
15
A.
Correct.
16
Q.
So your conversations with him, although it's not a
17
formal, sit down in a lawyer's office and consulting with him,
18
you discussed this issue with him before you cast that ballot
19
on May 10th, correct?
20
A.
I did not discuss it with him directly.
It was the
21
Allisons' father who was there at the meeting and the two
22
Allison boys.
23
corner and was asking him and I was leaning over and kind of
24
listening in.
25
Q.
He got him kind of cornered -- caught in a
You were listening in on the conversation between

281-723-9090
153
Justice -- it was probably Mr. Devine at the time and the
Allison brothers, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And was it his advice or his read of the situation
5
6
that this was a gray area of the law?

A.
He was concerned about the letter from the district
attorney's office.
upon voting.
Q.
Okay.
A little bit more casting of dispersion
What did that letter from Mr. Grant, what did
10
that urge you-all to do?
11
to seek legal counsel?
Did it ask you to or did it urge you
12
A.
13
letter, yes.
14
Q.
And did you do that?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Did you have any conversations with Mr. Yollick prior
17
I believe that was in the final paragraph of the
to casting that ballot on May 8 of 2010?
18
A.
No, not directly.
19
Q.
Okay.
And so you received information from
20
Mr. Jenkins regarding the propriety of what you were doing,
21
correct?
22
23
24
25
A.
Yes.
He brought it up with Mr. Yollick and then
addressed it to the rest of us.

Q.
And Mr. Jenkins asked Mr. Yollick, "Hey, are we on
solid legal standing?"
And Mr. Yollick related to Mr. Jenkins

281-723-9090
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1
2
who related to you that you were on solid legal standing?

A.
I wouldn't say he gave it a solid rock.
It was kind
of a little squishy.
time past to that time, I believe the RVers in East County were
accused of illegal voting because they would leave the state
for so many months and they considered that RV park as their
residence.
where they were saying they voted illegally because they
weren't -- but that was their -- every year they came back to
10
11
There was always that possibility, but in
I just remember that one, because that was a case
that park.
Q.
The difficulty I'm having here is just trying to
12
differentiate between your fear of prosecution versus what you
13
knew as far as whether or not this process was illegal.
14
understand that?
15
16
17
A.
You
The difference -- I mean, the difference to me was it
was a prosecutable account if somebody brought it up.

Q.
You understand that in the legal process, the
18
prosecutor merely brings charges.
19
charges doesn't mean a person is guilty of the charge, right?
20
A.
21
then --
22
Q.
Just because they bring
Well, actually tend to go first to a Grand Jury and
Right.
You went through the Grand Jury process.
23
the prosecutor doesn't get to pass judgment guilty or not
24
guilty.
25
A.
You understand that, right?

Right.

281-723-9090
But
155
Q.
So we go on and have trials, right?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And that's where were sitting here today, right?
A.
Uh-huh.
Q.
Okay.
So you had some apprehension about voting
because of the letter you got from Mr. Grant and then what
you're hearing down the stream from Mr. Yollick, the attorney,
what you're overhearing Mr. Devine, another attorney, saying,
you know this is an issue, right?
10
A.
It could be an issue, yes.
11
Q.
But at the time, and this is part of all the
12
information you put together making your decision whether or
13
not to cast that ballot on May 8, 2010, you did not know, you
14
did not know when you walked in that voting booth that you were
15
casting an illegal ballot.
16
didn't know it, did you?
17
A.
You had doubts about it; but you
I'm trying to answer this.
18
double-edged sword.
19
if you get caught and indicted.
20
it both ways.
21
Q.
Because, to me, that's a
You know it, but it's only going to hurt

So for me to say one, it makes
So your testimony today is that when I walked in that
22
voting booth, I knew I was break being the law.
I knew I was
23
committing a felony.
24
but I thought no harm, no foul because I'm unlikely to get
25
prosecuted.
I knew I was casting an illegal ballot,
Is that your testimony?

281-723-9090
156
A.
From the State of Texas, ten votes, yes.
Q.
Let's go over some of your testimony.
Once again
back to the point, you testified in a previous hearing
regarding this matter, correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you recall being asked whether it was legal to go
forward, in other words, vote?
question?
9
10
MR. WHITE:
Objection, Your Honor, improper
THE COURT:
What's going on?
impeachment.
11
12
MR. WALKER:
14
THE COURT:
Okay.
It's as though you're trying to
refresh his memory or something, but just ask him the question.
16
17
I mean, just ask
him the question.
13
15
Do you recall being asked that
MR. WALKER:
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Okay.
In a previous hearing regarding this
18
case did you testify that at the time prior to the election,
19
that you believed it was not a cut-and-dry yes-or-no legal
20
issue.
21
MR. WHITE:
Objection, Your Honor.
If he would
22
just ask him that specific question today and not ask if he had
23
answered that question in the previous hearing, I think we
24
could get to the point where we do proper impeachment -- a
25
proper impeachment, if necessary.

281-723-9090
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1
2
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Okay.
Prior to casting the vote,
did you believe it was legal to go forward?
A.
100 percent legal to go forward?
Q.
I think that's kind of like being kind of pregnant.
It's a yes-or-no question.
illegal.
question was before.
forward prior to the election?
Something is legal or something is
A.
So the question, once again, is the same as the

Did you believe it was legal to go
Again, I can't give you a cut and dry.
My scenario
10
today is unfortunately back then at that time, I had another
11
mind set and my answer was yes or no.
12
If I don't stop at the stop sign at the end of my street, I
13
have broken the law.
14
trying to do something right, I felt right until I got the
15
instructions from Mr. Jenkins.
16
you're referring to about the fact that mobility has to be
17
known about.
18
lights and get the room out.
19
good for The Woodlands and I got the job, right or wrong.
20
intentions was to get on the board and see what was going on.
21
My pressure for me to vote and shut it down and turn the lights
22
out was not my intention.
23
without being on the board, nobody knew what was going on with
24
the board.
25
the records were held in Harris County.
But it's a gray area.
And voting in this election, were we
I testified in previously that
You can't walk into something and say turn the

I want to see were they doing
That was an outside force.
My
So
They held their meetings on Monday morning and all

So how are you going

281-723-9090
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1
2
to go find the documents to read up.

Q.
Let me ask you another specific question.
Did you
knowingly put false information on your registration form to
vote, at the time you did it, did you believe you were
knowingly putting down an illegal residence?
believe that in your mind, did you?
7
8
9
10
A.
You didn't
No, I knew it was illegal address.
The fact that I
wrote the Residence Inn on Six Pines was false.

Q.
Do you recall answering that question differently at
another hearing of this matter?
11
MR. WALKER:
12
THE COURT:
May I approach the witness, Judge.

All right.
Rule 613 talks about it.
13
It says the witness must be told the contents of the statement,
14
the time and place and the person to whom it was made and must
15
be afforded an opportunity to explain or deny such statement.
16
That's Rule 613 of the Rules of Evidence.
17
MR. WALKER:
18
You'll follow that.
That's why I'm approaching the
witness, Judge.
19
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Let me show you this document.
20
A.
That Question 4, I do remember that because it was
21
about put a tent under the Research bridge and call it my
22
residence.
23
a tent up under a bridge or wherever, you can declare that as
24
your permanent residence and vote from it.
25
being made about being at the Residence Inn or under a bridge
That is legal in the State of Texas.

281-723-9090
If you go put
That's a comment
159
in a tent.
2
3
4
Q.
wait.
When you filled out the voter registration form --
When did you do that?

A.
Whatever the date is on it that I signed it.
to have been 31 days before the election.
believe, something.
THE COURT:
filled out the voter's registration form.
about that voter application change form?

MR. WALKER:
11
THE COURT:
12
registration application.
MR. WALKER:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. WALKER:
(By Mr. Walker)
Are you talking
Yes, sir.
That's distinct and different from a
13
Q.
So April 20th, I
Mr. Walker, you asked him when you
10
16
It had
You're correct, Judge.

All right.
I'll clear that up.
I'm going show you what's been
17
marked as State's Exhibit No. 7, several pages before we get to
18
the relevant one.
19
20
Okay.
There we go.
This is the voter registration application that

you filled out, correct?
21
A.
Correct.
22
Q.
And when did you fill that out?
23
A.
April 15, 2010.
24
Q.
Let me give you three options here.
25
When you filled
out that application, yes, no, or it wasn't clear to me, did

281-723-9090
160
1
2
you know you were committing an offense?

A.
Yes, no, or --
MR. WHITE:
Your Honor, I know I'm late on this
objection, but I'm going to object to relevance because an
individual's knowledge that they are committing a criminal act
is not an element of the offense.
not relevant to the issues at this trial.
MR. WALKER:
9
10
It's not required and it's
I believe it is an element of the
offense, Your Honor, based on the indictment that's been

returned against these two individuals.
11
THE COURT:
Actually -- well, the indictment
12
alleges that the Defendants did then and there vote in an
13
election in which the Defendants knew they were not eligible to
14
vote, namely the May 8th, 2010, Woodlands Road Utility District
15
Board of Directors election when they knew they did not reside
16
in the precinct in which they voted.
17
Standby.
And, Mr. Walker, you are asserting in your
18
theory of your case here in defense that the Defendants acted
19
under mistake of law?
20
MR. WALKER:
Correct.
21
THE COURT:
All right.
And you will be getting
22
this instruction, but so this will help you as you process this
23
information, it is no defense to prosecution that a Defendant
24
was ignorant of the provisions of any law after the law has
25
taken effect.
It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that

281-723-9090
161
the Defendant reasonably believed the conduct charged did not
constitute a crime and that they acted in reasonable reliance
upon, 1, an official statement of the law contained in a
written order or grant of permission by an administrative
agency charged by law with responsibility for interpreting the
law in question; or, 2, a written interpretation of the law
contained in an opinion of a court of record or made by a
public official charged by law with responsibility for
interpreting the law in question.
10
That will be the law that you will be
11
deliberating over as relevant in this particular case.
12
called mistake of law defense and those are all important
13
elements that must be met.
14
you in written form at the conclusion of the case, Ladies and
15
Gentlemen.
And these will also be provided to
16
You may go forward.
17
MR. WALKER:
18
19
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
That's
Thank you, Judge.

You voted in the RUD election,
right?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
And you called the Attorney General's office when you
22
23
received a letter regarding this issue?

A.
I cannot positively answer that question, if it was a
24
letter or a phone call left at my residence or how -- it had to
25
have been a letter because I vaguely remember looking at the

281-723-9090
162
bottom -- or the top of it or the bottom and finding a phone
number I could call back on.
Q.
And was it your state of mind at this point, we're
post election, we're post-election contest, we're -- everything
is over with, was it your state of mind that you were just kind
of fed up with this whole mess?
A.
Personally, I was fed up with the way we -- the sheep
were led to it by Mr. Jenkins and Mr. Yollick and all the hoops
we had to jump through and all the, not even half truths,
10
11
out-and-out lies that we had to go through.

Q.
I want to ask you if you're familiar with some
12
documents.
13
sorry -- Attorney General opinions regarding voter residency?
14
A.
Did you ever review any attorney agenda -- I'm
I would say I was dependent upon the words from
15
Attorney Yollick and his summation of what had been written and
16
what trial had taken place over a voting fraud.
17
Q.
Do you -- well, did you ever sit down with Yollick?
18
A.
We had meetings with Mr. Yollick.
After the
19
election, there was a little, bitty probably interview room
20
that he had in his office and there was 10, 12 people crammed
21
around this table.
22
23
24
25
Q.
Let's talk preelection, okay?
focus to preelection.
A.
I want to narrow the
Did you ever meet with Mr. Yollick?
I have been represented by Mr. Yollick in the past
over a Lone Star -- I guess it was Lone Star College case.

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163
met Mr. Yollick through the years prior to that, probably a few
times.
four times before he moved.
Mr. Yollick or having lunch or something, no.
I know I've been in his office like two or three or
Q.
As far as being buddies with
I want to go specifically preelection and regarding
the subject matter of the road utility district.
meet with Mr. Yollick?
A.
Personally, never.
Q.
Okay.
10
Did you ever
So any information that he would have shared
would have come to you through who?
11
A.
Mr. Jenkins.
12
Q.
Anybody else?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
What was your first impression, your first knowledge
15
16
of the road utility district?

A.
Adrian Heath brought the information about an
17
article -- or a reporter on the Internet who wrote a report
18
about the Montgomery County RUD district.
19
Q.
Let me slow you down there.
20
A.
Adrian Heath --
21
Q.
When was that?
22
23
24
25
about it.
A.
Adrian Heath --
This was the first thing you know
Was this during early 2010?

More like it would have been in the first of March,
would have been the month.

Q.
Of 2010?

281-723-9090
164
A.
2010.
Q.
And was this at some meeting?
A.
It was --
Q.
Do you recall where it was?
A.
The first meeting that I ever heard about the road
utility district was at Mr. Jenkins' office when Adrian brought
in the thing about the story of the RUD board and all the rest
of it.
Internet.
I was asked did I ever read the article on the

And I said I read the first few pages of it.
It was
10
long and I don't like to read off the bond restraints, so I
11
closed it.
12
Q.
Who was present at this meeting that you recall?
13
A.
I think Mr. Doyle was there.
14
Q.
Jim Doyle?
15
A.
Jim Doyle.
16
Q.
Adrian Heath?
17
A.
Pete Goeddertz was there.
I arrived.
We were
18
waiting for Adrian to show up.
19
that's when the meeting basically started and laying out what
20
he had learned.
21
22
Q.
Okay.
And when he finally showed up,
You got Jim Doyle, Pete Goeddertz, Adrian
Heath, obviously yourself?
23
A.
Myself.
24
Q.
And who am I missing there?
25
A.
Jim was there.
Jim Jenkins was there?
You got to understand, this meeting

281-723-9090
165
room is about this wide and about this deep and there's doorway
and hallways so it's kind of -- you're not in a real room.
I'm trying to remember, I don't believe Mr. Curry made that
meeting or was there.
dispute between Mr. Jenkins and Mr. Heath and Mr. Heath stormed
out of the building.
And a few minutes later, I left the building.
8
9
Q.
And
It didn't last long because it became a
And I think Mr. Goeddertz followed him.
Was this meeting solely about the road utility
district?
10
A.
Putting light on it for the rest of us to know about
12
Q.
Okay.
13
formal group?
14
A.
11
it.
You said this is a meeting.
Is this some
The group has no formal meetings or times.
If we're
15
going to file a complaint on an elected official for not doing
16
their campaign finance report, Mr. Jenkins and his secretary do
17
all the research and he would get Mr. Doyle or myself or others
18
to come in and sign the complaint and sent it off.
19
was never any monthly meetings.
20
we're going to have a meeting tonight.
21
come on by.
22
Q.
So there
You get a call and say, hey,

If you can make it,
So there is no formal organization.
This is just a
23
group of like-minded individuals who pursued the same type of
24
activities?
25
A.
Kind of.
I mean, nobody had the same ideas, but it

281-723-9090
166
was a way to kind of get at the politicians for not doing their
paperwork.
Q.
This would have been in March 2010, right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
The two ladies sitting next to me, the Defendants in
this case, they weren't present at that meeting, were they?
A.
No.
Q.
What is the next recollection you have as far as a
9
10
11
12
13
14
meeting or a conversation regarding the road utility district?

A.
It wasn't.
It was phone calls and you stopped by and
picked up the new what was going on.

Q.
Phone calls between primarily the people at that
meeting?
A.
Jim Doyle would call you or if you stopped by
15
Mr. Jenkins' office, you would catch up on the latest
16
scuttlebutt that was going on.
17
afternoon when I didn't have anything to do and visit.
18
Tom Curry would be there.
19
they were in the area if they had time.
I was there times in the
Maybe not.
Maybe
And people came by as
20
Q.
So was this issue and plan, was it gathering steam?
21
A.
None of us liked the idea that -- I believe the RUD
22
board had been in existence for six years.
And there attorney
23
had declared there were no residents inside the borders and
24
there was no need for an election.
25
six people who were in that precinct and the attorney never
And a simple search showed

281-723-9090
167
1
2
bothered to go check the files.

Q.
Did Mr. Jenkins, at that meeting, relay any
information as far as legal opinions or any official documents
from any administrative agency such as the Attorney General,
Secretary of State, case law?
A.
The original meeting?
Q.
Correct.
A.
No.
9
10
11
12
Nobody knew what it was until Mr. Heath arrived
and orally gave it to those who were standing there.

Q.
And were there any other meetings held prior to that
date of the election?

A.
Again, it was drop by.
I get a call from Patty, the
13
office secretary, or Jim Doyle telling you this, that, and the
14
other, need to go by the office and you drop by at your
15
leisure?
16
Q.
So did Jim Jenkins ever relate to you that
17
Mr. Yollick had informed him that you-all were on solid legal
18
footing to vote in that election?
19
MR. WHITE:
Objection; hearsay.
20
THE COURT:
Sustained.
21
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
22
23
Don't answer that.
Did Mr. Jenkins ever relate to you that he was

in conversation with Mr. Yollick?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
And at any time leading up to this date of the

281-723-9090
168
election, did you -- had you ever met Sybil Doyle?
A.
I had been to the Doyles' residence maybe a dozen
times.
come out of the house.
formal gathering, no.
6
7
Q.
I think maybe three or four times of that I saw Sybil
Did you ever have any conversations with her
regarding the road utility district?
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
10
We have Roberta Cook here, as well.
Do you
know Ms. Cook?
11
A.
I only know that Jim and Sybil have a daughter.
12
had never met her.
13
and dad's home.
14
15
But as far as being at their house on a
Q.
I don't think I even saw her at her mother
And obviously you had no conversations with her
regarding the road utility district, correct?
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
And on the date of the election, you didn't -- well,
18
let's back up.
19
20
The night before you did not go up to the hotel,

correct?
21
A.
Correct.
22
Q.
So you went up there the next day.
Did you ever
23
actually enter the building, or did you stay out in the parking
24
lot?
25
A.
This will take a moment because I go and dress in

281-723-9090
169
1800 clothing for the state at a park and I came in -- I
volunteer at the state park as a reenactor.
came in that afternoon from doing it most of the day.
thinking I ran into a room I was given a key to and changed
into regular clothing, so I didn't have 18-inch high boots on
and cloth coat and stuff.
out, vote, back to my car and home.
8
9
Q.
And I just -- I
And I'm
But that would have been in, change,
Do you recall ever seeing either Sybil Doyle or
Roberta Cook at that motel that day or hotel?
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
Do you ever recall seeing either of them at any of
12
these meetings at Yollick's office after the election?
13
A.
14
and daughter.
15
Q.
Who else was there?
16
A.
Well, Yollick, I think an assistant of his.
17
No.
Jim Doyle was representing there for his wife
Allisons were there.
Yollick, obviously?
The
Tom Curry.
18
Q.
What about Jenkins?
19
A.
I believe Jenkins was there because he got a tongue
20
lashing from Mr. Yollick.
21
Q.
That's regarding the issue of --
22
A.
Two rooms.
23
Q.
Was Mr. Heath there?
24
A.
That's a hard one, because I mean, take those tables
25
and put them in a room with chairs sides -- on the side, you

281-723-9090
170
put that many people in it.
just -- because Mr. Yollick was at the opposite doorway.
who was at the table?
4
5
6
Q.
So I was standing in a doorway

So
So as far as Mr. Heath, you're telling me you don't
recall whether he was there or not?

A.
I can't -- if he was, he didn't say anything.
mean, the biggest part was between Mr. Yollick and Mr. Jenkins.
I know -- I think Mr. Doyle brought up a question or two.
Allisons I don't think had any questions.
10
11
12
quiet.
Q.
The
They were very
And I didn't of any questions.

All these pictures that we see, that's -- all those
events take place after the election, correct?
13
A.
Correct.
14
Q.
Did you ever see either Sybil Doyle or Roberta Cook
15
16
at that hotel after the election?

A.
The only time I could have seen that they were there
17
was if they were down in the breakfast area in the morning,
18
because I parked, came in, had some coffee, visited with
19
everybody, took pictures, and I left.
20
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
So are you telling me you don't recall whether you
saw them or not?

A.
I never saw them in the breakfast area, but I didn't
arrive there until maybe 9:00 o'clock in the morning.

Q.
Certainly, if we refer to State's 33, they don't make
an appearance in any of those pictures, do they?

281-723-9090
171
1
2
A.
Correct.
In the picture times, it was the ones you
see over and over and over again.
MR. WALKER:
BY MR. WHITE:
Q.
The Allison boys, Benjamin and Robert, what was their
living situation and roughly what were their ages?
8
9
A.
Early 20s.
I think Ben was like 21, 22 and Robert
was somewhere -- they were close together, not years and years
10
apart.
11
were keeping, I believe, four rooms rented.
12
wife actually rented their own separate room.
13
at night, I think I was only there maybe one evening when I
14
went up to Mr. Pete Goeddertz's room?
15
Q.
I know that after the chewing out by Mr. Yollick, they

Mr. Curry and his
So who was there
And were the Allisons living at home with their
16
parents before the civil trial and the moving to the room at
17
the Residence Inn?
18
know?
Were they living with their parents, do you
19
A.
They had a room prior to the civil trial.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
A.
I believe that's correct, because we did the
22
23
24
25
drive-around photograph.
Q.
Were you familiar at all that the Allisons lived with
their parents out in Cut and Shoot -- near Cut and Shoot?
A.
I just knew -- I never been to their home.

281-723-9090
172
remember it was somewhere east of Conroe, but --
Q.
Okay.
These were two young guys?
A.
Yeah.
They're young, single males.
Q.
Do you happen to know whether or not they were
indicted?
A.
I cannot answer that, no.
Q.
Okay.
Do you know -- have you heard of them being
indicted for illegal voting?
A.
I am so far out of the loop, phone calls.
Nobody in
10
the group communicates with me, and I don't communicate with
11
them.
12
13
14
Q.
If I were to tell you they weren't indicted, you
wouldn't have any knowledge to the contrary; is that right?

A.
Right.
Let me correct one thing.
Mr. Goeddertz and
15
I have talked maybe once every two or three months from the
16
duration of this.
17
conversation with the group.
18
Q.
Okay.
But even at that, it's limited to any
I want to talk to you a little bit about the
19
questions that Mr. Walker was asking you in regards to whether
20
or not you knew you were committing a crime.
21
filled out the registration application, change of address
22
form, and, B, when you actually voted.
23
to mislead the jury here.
24
25
Okay.
When you, A,
So I don't want
Are you -- have you heard the phrase "ignorance

of the law is no excuse"?

281-723-9090
173
A.
Correct.
Q.
Did you know that's an actual legal principal?
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
Did you know that you don't have to commit --
you don't have to know you're committing a crime to commit a
crime?
A.
Yeah.
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
10
11
12
13
leading.
Object to leading, Your Honor.

Sustained.
Be careful about
Q.
Go ahead.
(By Mr. White)
Do you know whether or not you have
to know you're committing a crime to actually commit a crime?

A.
Do I have to know it before I do it?
I mean, you can
14
commit a crime in this state I know even if you don't know
15
what's on the law books.
16
Q.
17
18
Okay.
That's exactly what I'm asking.
Thanks.
Did you know when you cast your vote on May 8,

2010, that you did not live at the Residence Inn hotel?
19
A.
Correct.
20
Q.
Did you know that you didn't reside at the Residence
21
Inn hotel?
22
A.
Correct.
23
Q.
Did you know that wasn't your habitation?
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
Your fixed place of living?

281-723-9090
174
A.
Correct.
Q.
And did you know that you didn't reside at the
Residence Inn when you signed your voter registration
application for your change of address?
A.
Yes.
Q.
During one of those meetings at Eric Yollick's
office, after the election, during that civil trial period --
or before the civil trial, do you recall a meeting where you
and the other members of the group were asked to come up with
10
your personal reasons for moving, in quotes, to the road
11
utility district?
12
MR. WALKER:
13
THE COURT:
14
A.
Yes.
Object to relevance, Your Honor.

Overruled.
It was a Saturday.
No air conditioning in the
15
building and you had to hang around until he called your name
16
to present your story.
17
Q.
(By Mr. White)
Okay.
So had you been asked to come
18
up with a story why you were, quote, unquote, moving to the
19
RUD?
20
21
A.
It was a reason why you were moving from your
comfortable home to the Residence Inn.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
A.
A credible story.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
A.
And mine was ruled the weakest.

281-723-9090
175
Q.
What was your story?
A.
I wanted to be in the middle of the district for my
mutual funds and life insurance policies.
Financial applications.
5
6
7
Q.
Okay.
And after you told Mr. Yollick your story,
what was his response?

A.
Work on it.
MR. WHITE:
9
10
11
12
13
Selling those.
Pass the witness.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
This coming up with the story, Mr. Yollick is present
at those meetings?
A.
We were to audition to Mr. Yollick in his office on
14
that Saturday afternoon as to why we had changed our address to
15
the Residence Inn and why.
16
Q.
Was Jim Jenkins present?
17
A.
We came and went as we needed.
I believe I -- the
18
Allisons may have been there, I think were ahead of me.
19
Somebody else may have been in the office.
20
and go.
21
Q.
22
recall?
23
A.
24
25
It was, again, come
Did you ever see Mr. Jenkins there or do you not
On the day that we were doing our audition, no.
likely he did his in the morning with Mr. Yollick.

Q.
And you didn't see Sybil Doyle there, did you?

281-723-9090
More
176
A.
No.
Q.
Didn't see Roberta Cook there, did you?
A.
No.
MR. WALKER:
I pass the witness.
MR. WHITE:
No further questions.
THE COURT:
MR. WHITE:
Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
You are excused, sir.
Next witness, please.
10
MR. WHITE:
State rests, Your Honor.
11
THE COURT:
All right.
12
break, Ladies and Gentlemen.
13
about ten minutes, then report back.
We're going to take a
Relax, stretch your legs for
14
We are in recess.
15
16
17
THE COURT:
Mr. Walker, on behalf of the
18
Defense, the State has rested its case-in-chief.
19
Defense?
20
MR. WALKER:
Yes, sir.
What says the
On behalf of both
21
Defendants at this time, the Defense will make a motion for
22
directed verdict based on the fact that the State has failed to
23
prove a prima facia case of the Defendant's guilt.
24
State has failed to produce any evidence to where a rational
25
jury could find the element of knowledge on the part of the

281-723-9090
Namely, the
177
Defendants.
2
3
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
the jury in.

Ready to go forward?

courtroom.)
THE COURT:
The jury is seated in the courtroom.
10
The parties are ready to proceed.
11
case-in-chief.
MR. WALKER:
13
we'll call Pete Goeddertz.
Defense is ready to proceed and
14
(Witness is sworn.)
15
THE COURT:
16
Please have a seat, sir.
PETER GOEDDERTZ,
18
19
The State has rested its
What says Defense?
12
17
Let's bring
Thank you.
7
8
In all due respect,
denied.
Well presented.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:
20
Q.
State your name for the Court, please?
21
A.
My name is Peter J. Goeddertz.
22
Q.
How old are you, Mr. Goeddertz?
23
A.
Huh?
24
Q.
How old are you?
25
A.
66.

281-723-9090
Thank you.
178
Q.
Where do you live?
A.
15910 Hartman Road, Magnolia, Texas.
Q.
And are you employed?
A.
Yes, I am.
Q.
What do you do?
A.
I'm a tile contractor.
Q.
How long have you lived in Montgomery County?
A.
About 40 years.
Q.
You understand we're here talking about the election
10
for the Road Utility District No. 1 of Montgomery County back
11
in 2010.
You understand that?
12
A.
What was the question?
13
Q.
We're here talking about the road utility district
14
election held in 2010; is that correct?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Did you stand for a position on the Board of
17
Directors of the road utility district in the 2010 election?
18
A.
Yes, I did.
19
Q.
Did you also vote in the road utility district
20
election held in May of 2010?
21
A.
Yes, I did.
22
Q.
When did you first become aware of the existence of
23
24
25

A.
aware?
I really couldn't say.
I mean, when did I become
It was sometime before that.
It was told to us about

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it.
We were told about it.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Well, those that voted, I would assume, yes.
Q.
Give me some names?
A.
I know a Bill Berntsen, Rick McDuffee, Jim Doyle.
Who was the "us"?
Jim Jenkins, myself, Tom Curry, and those two young fellows.
Q.
You referring to the Allison brothers?
A.
Yeah, the Allison brothers, right.
Q.
There's two ladies sitting at the table here with me.
10
Do you know either of these two people?
11
A.
I know Sybil.
12
Q.
You know Ms. Sybil Doyle.
How do you know her?
13
A.
Well, through Jim Doyle.
Our paths have crossed.
14
Q.
What about the other lady sitting at the table with
16
A.
No, I'm not familiar with her.
17
Q.
And how long have you known, approximately, Jim
15
18
me?
Doyle?
19
A.
Probably at least ten years, maybe longer.
20
Q.
And in what context do you know him?
21
A.
We were active politically.
22
Q.
And do you also know Jim Jenkins?
23
A.
Yes, I do.
24
Q.
In what context do you know him?
25
A.
Well, the same.
We were active politically.

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180
Q.
Eric Yollick?
A.
Yes, I am.
Q.
How do you know Eric?
A.
I guess I met Jim through Eric.
6
7
8
And are you familiar with an attorney by the name of
I met Eric through
the Republican Party, and that's how I met him.

Q.
Prior to 2010, were you aware of the existence of the
road utility district?
A.
No, not really.
10
Q.
And when did this first become -- start to become an
11
12
issue in your life?

A.
I believe Adrian mentioned it and then I guess we
13
discussed it, I guess, and they had a plan of action and then
14
we proceeded.
15
Q.
16
17
Let's be careful with the pronouns there.
We
discussed it, who is the "we"?

A.
Well, you know, I really -- I'd say it was discussed
18
I guess would be more accurate.
19
who, I really couldn't tell you.
20
be Jim and Adrian and, you know, a few others of us.
21
Q.
It was discussed.
And with
I mean, obviously, it had to
Did you ever attend a meeting at Mr. Jenkins' office
22
in the early months of 2010 regarding the road utility
23
district?
24
25
A.
Yes.
That's where it was discussed.
and, you know, I guess for other things, too.

281-723-9090
We had meetings
Other purposes.
181
1
2
Q.
Do you ever recall Mr. Yollick attending these
meetings?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you ever recall seeing either of these two ladies
I don't -- I don't recall Eric.
at those meetings?
A.
No, I don't.
Q.
Through the course of these meetings, was there
eventually a plan discussed or come up with on how to deal with
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Tell me how that came about.
12
A.
I can't tell you how it came about.
I just know it
13
did come about and we acted on it and -- you know, we had a
14
plan and we acted on it.
15
Q.
What did -- what did you-all do?
16
A.
Well, we registered to vote in another district, you
17
know, applying for a new voter registration with an address
18
that was in that district.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
And during the course of these meetings, was it
discussed the legality of this plan?

A.
Yes.
Yeah, it was.
And we obviously believed that
what we were doing was, you know, within the law.

Q.
And what did you-all do?
We need to get that clear
for the record.

A.
Well, we stayed at the inn -- well, first of all, we

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changed our addresses and we stayed at the inn, you know, to
meet the qualifications what we felt to vote in that district.
Q.
You personally, did you review any -- let me give you
a list of things.
regarding this subject?
6
7
8
9
A.
Did you review any Attorney General opinion
That is probably the single most influential piece
that we -- you know, to -- yes, we did.

Q.
And did you review any Secretary of State's opinion
regarding this issue?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Do you recall ever reviewing a Texas case, Mills v.
12
Bartlett.
13
A.
No, I can't -- I don't think I recall that.
14
Q.
Did you ever have any discussions with Mr. Yollick
15
16
regarding the legality of these -A.
Not personally, but we met with Eric and discussed,
17
you know, our concern.
18
Grant.
I think we got a letter with Phil
19
Q.
We're going to get to that in a minute.
20
A.
Okay.
21
Q.
Let's stay with this --
22
A.
All right.
23
Q.
And so you -- these meetings with Mr. Yollick, did
24
25
they occur before or after the election?

A.
Before.

281-723-9090
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1
2
Q.
And did Mr. Yollick express an opinion that you were
on firm legal standing to follow through with this plan?
MR. GLICKLER:
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
Objection, Your Honor, hearsay.
Sustained.
May I be heard on that?
Yes, sir.
I wanted to respond that I'm not
offering for the truth of the matter asserted.
state of mind of this witness and, we'll get to it at some
10
Simply for the
point, but also the state of mind of my clients.
11
THE COURT:
Please approach.
12
(Bench conference.)
13
THE COURT:
Here's my problem on that.
Is that
14
under the mistake of law defense, it says for what the basis
15
that you can believe and rely on.
16
that.
17
lawyers' advice.
And I'll let you get into
But it doesn't talk about Yollick or any of the defense
18
MR. WALKER:
19
THE COURT:
Right.
So with that, to me, that's
20
confusing, misleading, and irrelevant to the issues for the
21
jury to deal with.
22
because I believe that what they knew is defined and how do you
23
prove knowledge.
24
what can be used to assert that and as long as you follow those
25
elements, I'll let you get into that.
But these last two trials, I have allowed
And for the mistake of fact, it talks about
But Yollick's advice is

281-723-9090
184
truly confusing to this jury, to say the least.
example of what the bar association ought to be representing.
MR. GLICKLER:
To me, our
I would like to add that it's not
relevant to the mistake of law in and of itself, that it's Eric
Yollick's opinion.
witnesses so far, there's been no evidence whatsoever that
these Defendants were involved with Yollick so far with
McDuffee and Goeddertz.
weren't there.
10
When they had meetings, these two
So what's in his state of mind as to what he
did wouldn't be relevant to what the women did either.
11
12
But more importantly, through the three
MR. WALKER:
He said he did take meetings with
Yollick.
13
MR. GLICKLER:
But that wouldn't be relevant to
14
Ms. Doyle or Ms. Cook because they weren't present, which he
15
said they were not.
16
would be to argue the prejudicial factor.
17
to mistake of law what Eric Yollick might have said.
18
And so in addition to being irrelevant, it
THE COURT:
But it's irrelevant
Nonetheless, I'm going to sustain
19
the objection.
20
hearsay from Yollick is far afield from being able to show that
21
these ladies knew what Yollick was saying.
22
connected that one, so that, to me, is hearsay and another
23
reason that I would grant it under these circumstances the
24
record slows it to be.
25
So find again -- this is, again, third-hand
We haven't
So I'm going to sustain the objection.
MR. WALKER:

281-723-9090
185
(Bench conference concludes.)
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
5
6
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
Objection is sustained.
May I proceed?
Yes, sir.
At -- well, did you ever go up to
the hotel there within the road utility district?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
When did you do that?
A.
Before the election.
10
Q.
How long before the election?
11
A.
A day.
12
Q.
And did you rent a room there?
13
A.
Yes, we did.
14
Q.
And did you spend the night there?
15
A.
Yes, I did.
16
Q.
Who else spent the night there?
17
A.
I guess most of us did.
18
Q.
Let's talk about specifically about these two ladies.
When?
Those that voted did.
19
Did you see them at the motel or hotel the night before the
20
election?
21
A.
No, I didn't.
22
Q.
You're saying you didn't see them there, or you don't
23
recall?
24
A.
I don't recall seeing them there.
25
Q.
And --

281-723-9090
186
1
2
A.
That does not mean they couldn't have been there.
just didn't see them.
Q.
And did you vote in the election the next day?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
And did you see either Ms. Doyle or Ms. Cook there at
the hotel the day of the election?
A.
I don't recall.
Q.
But in any event, there were a certain group of you
that were there that went over to vote; is that correct?
10
A.
Yes, that's correct.
11
Q.
Where was the voting location in relation to the
12
hotel?
13
A.
Not far.
A couple of blocks.
14
Q.
And as mentioned earlier, you were on the ballot as a
15
candidate in the road utility district Board of Directors
16
election; is that correct?
17
A.
That's correct.
18
Q.
Did there come times after the election where you
19
made appearances there at that hotel?
20
A.
Yes, we did.
21
Q.
And how often did you do that?
22
A.
Seems like for almost a week.
23
Q.
And at any point did you see either of the two ladies
24
25
at the table with me at the hotel during that period?

A.
I don't recall seeing them.

281-723-9090
187
Q.
And at the time you cast your ballot in the road
utility district Board of Directors election, did you have
knowledge that you were casting an illegal vote?
A.
No.
Q.
What was your opinion as far as your vote?
A.
Well --
7
8
No.
MR. GLICKLER:
as to his opinion.
Objection, Your Honor, relevance
He's not on trial.
THE COURT:
Any response?
10
MR. WALKER:
11
THE COURT:
12
MR. WALKER:
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Go ahead.
We're talking state of mind and
13
we've heard ample testimony regarding a group here and as far
14
as what the state of mind of this particular witness is is
15
certainly relevant to this trial.
16
MR. GLICKLER:
Your Honor, the objection of
17
relevance goes to the fact that it's a mischaracterization of
18
the law.
19
issue in this case, ignorance of the law is no excuse, is no
20
defense.
21
casting an illegal vote.
22
knew he was eligible to vote as that phrase is defined not the
23
election code.
24
before this jury for these Defendants is not relevant.
25
As the Court has identified, mistake of law being an
And the question is not whether he thought he was

The question is whether or not he
Therefore, his opinion on the ultimate issue
MR. WALKER:
If we go back to the mistake of law

281-723-9090
188
definition, he is saying he's relying on this -- I believe he
testified about this Attorney General opinion.
THE COURT:
Again, let's -- this witness'
opinion and what his state of mind is, is one thing.
not the one on trial.
MR. WALKER:
Correct.
THE COURT:
All right.
But he's
So why does his personal
opinion and reflection, how does that make it relevant to this
jury in making a determination on the indictments that are
10
against these ladies?
11
MR. WALKER:
12
the road utility district.
13
The group dynamics of the vote for
MR. GLICKLER:
My response there is, Your Honor,
14
this witness as well as the preceding witness for the state
15
have both pretty much testified nothing but to the fact that
16
Ms. Cook and Ms. Doyle weren't really part of the group.
17
that dynamic wouldn't be relevant to them.
18
THE COURT:
So
I'm going to allow you some
19
opportunity to connect what their knowledge may be through him;
20
but as yet, it's just still his opinion, which hadn't connected
21
to -- in the record to the Defendants.
22
Defendants who are on trial, not the witness.
23
you an opportunity to build that up.
24
25
MR. WALKER:
Q.
(By Mr. Walker)
And again, it's these

But I'll give
Okay.
Mr. Goeddertz, you voted voluntarily

281-723-9090
189
in the election, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
No one forced you to do that?
A.
No.
MR. WALKER:
6
7
8
9
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GLICKLER:
Q.
Mr. Goeddertz, you lived in Montgomery County for
almost 40 years, correct?
10
A.
That's correct.
11
Q.
And you have lived in Montgomery County for almost
12
13
40 years at 15910 Hartman in Magnolia, correct?

A.
14
15
MR. GLICKLER:
Your Honor, may I approach the
witness?
16
17
That's correct.
THE COURT:
Q.
(By Mr. Glickler)
Yes.
State's Exhibit No. 12,
18
Mr. Goeddertz, is a copy of the warranty deed on your property
19
that was executed in 1976, almost 40 years ago, correct?
20
A.
Correct.
21
Q.
And for almost the entire length of those 40 years,
22
you've been registered to vote at that address, correct?
23
A.
That's correct.
24
Q.
And during the course -- State's Exhibit No. 24, do
25
you recognize this series of photographs?

281-723-9090
190
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
Is this your house at Magnolia?
A.
Yes, it is.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And all that time you were voting where you lived at
Where you've lived for 40 years?
Magnolia, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Okay.
Now, in this election, State's Exhibit No. 2
10
shows that you weren't just any one of the ten voters.
11
were a candidate for the board, weren't you?
You
12
A.
That's correct.
13
Q.
And Mr. Jenkins recruited you run for the board,
14
correct?
15
A.
Correct.
16
Q.
And you did not have to reside in the road utility
17
district to be a candidate for the board, correct?
18
A.
That's correct.
19
Q.
And what you did there was completely legal, correct?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
And no one has ever accused you of a crime in running
22
for the board, correct?
23
A.
Right.
24
Q.
State's Exhibit No. 7 are a series of voter
25
registration applications.
And the fifth page is yours,

281-723-9090
191
correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And you executed this change of registration for a
voter address on March 31 of 2010, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
That's was after you had already declared yourself as
a candidate, correct?
A.
I would imagine.
Q.
Go ahead and I'll show you your form.
10
I don't know.
You executed
your form, notarized March 4, 2010, correct?
11
A.
I think we had to do it before.
12
Q.
And then four weeks later, you registered to vote?
13
A.
Correct.
14
Q.
From the address which is -- we all know now is the
15
Residence Inn, correct?
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
And when you signed this document saying this was
18
your residence, you never set foot on that property at that
19
time, correct?
20
A.
Correct.
21
Q.
And you listed your mailing address as the same house
22
on Hartman in Magnolia that you'd been at for almost 40 years,
23
correct?
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
Now, on the night before the election, that was the

281-723-9090
192
first night you ever stayed at the hotel?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
You didn't rent a room yourself, did you?
A.
No.
Q.
You stayed in a room that was rented by Mr. Jenkins,
correct?
A.
I don't know who rented the room.
Q.
Okay.
A.
I think we contributed, though.
10
Q.
Everybody kicked in a few bucks?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
Who stayed in the room you were in that night?
13
A.
Seemed like Rick McDuffee.
14
Q.
Was Mr. McDuffee married on May -- was he married on
15
Did you pay for your -We contributed.
May 7, 2010, at the time?
16
A.
Was he married?
17
Q.
Not was that the day of his wedding.
But when he got
18
to the hotel on May 7, 2010, was he married at the time.
19
he have a wife?
20
A.
I assume.
I don't really know.
21
Q.
Do you know Rick McDuffee?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Does he have a wife?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Did he have a wife on May 7th, 2010?
Did
I guess he did.

281-723-9090
193
A.
I guess, yes.
Q.
Was she at the hotel?
A.
No.
Q.
Did you see Jim Jenkins at the hotel?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Was his wife there?
A.
No.
Q.
Did you see Adrian Heath at the hotel?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Was his wife there?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
You don't recall seeing Ms. Doyle or Ms. Cook that
13
I didn't see her.
night, do you?
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
The next day, May 8th, 2010, the date of election,
16
you went down and voted and you were Voter No. 1, weren't you?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Is that your signature?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Okay.
And I'm showing you for record purposes
21
State's Exhibit 4, which is those combination forms from the
22
election, listed the address as the Residence Inn address,
23
correct?
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
And there's nine other names.
You don't know those

281-723-9090
194
signatures, do you?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you know who you rode over to the election with?
A.
I really couldn't say.
Q.
Okay.
A.
No, I didn't.
Q.
Do you even recall seeing them?
A.
Yeah, I did see them there.
Q.
So you saw them on May 8, 2010, not at the Residence
10
Inn.
Did you ride with Ms. Cook or Ms. Doyle?
You saw them where you were voting?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
And you're familiar with the photographs taken
in State's Exhibit 33?
You've seen these before?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
These were all taken after the election, correct?
16
During the --
17
A.
I couldn't say that.
18
Q.
Well, we'll get into that --
19
A.
-- when they were taken.
20
Q.
We'll get into that in a minute.
21
I'm going to leave
those up for you for now.
22
23
I don't know --
You were voting in this election because you saw

a problem with the road utility district, correct?
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
The whole reason that you changed your residence

281-723-9090
195
address for voting was so that you would eligible to vote in
this road utility district election, correct?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
You didn't change your address to the Residence Inn
because you wanted to live at the Residence Inn, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
You wanted to be a registered voter so you could vote
in that district.
correct?
And that was your purpose for that address,
10
A.
That's correct.
11
Q.
Before that time, throughout your whole adult life,
12
had you been politically active?
13
A.
Oh, yes.
14
Q.
And you're not politically active anymore, are you?
15
Not like you were?
16
A.
Not as, but I'm still participating.
17
Q.
Until you got into this plan of action, did you
18
operate under the general principal that you vote where you
19
live?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
And you lived on Hartman in Magnolia, right?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
And you voted from that address for almost 35 years
24
25
before this election, right?

A.
Correct.

281-723-9090
196
Q.
And you vote from that address today?
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
On May 7th and May 8th of 2010, where
were the bulk of your belongings?
A.
Probably on Hartman.
Q.
Okay.
7
8
9
10
Then do you recall going back to the hotel
after you found out there was an election contest?

A.
I'm sorry.
I didn't -- I don't understand the
question.
Q.
Do you recall going back to the Residence Inn after
11
you had met with Eric Yollick after you found out there was not
12
election contest, a lawsuit about the election?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
And did go back to that hotel at the direction
of Eric Yollick?
16
A.
Yes, somewhat.
17
Q.
Did you have meetings at Eric Yollick's office where
18
he urged in an adamant way that you-all needed to have a
19
stronger presence at the Residence Inn?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
And did he particularly chastise anyone in the group
22
about the lack of rooms that had been rented prior to the
23
election?
24
A.
I couldn't rightly say that.
25
I don't know.
He may or may not have.

281-723-9090
197
Q.
Okay.
Well, earlier on direct examination you
testified that you guys on the night of May 7th, you stayed at
the inn to meet the qualifications for voting, right?
A.
Correct.
Q.
So as you understood it, you had to at least spend
the night there?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Like once?
A.
Spend some time there.
10
Q.
And that would be good enough to make you a
11
At least.
Yeah.
I don't know.
registered voter?
12
A.
Yeah.
Yes, it would.
13
Q.
Okay.
Now, you'll admit that at the Residence Inn,
14
there are no records that you, Pete Goeddertz, ever actually
15
rented a room?
16
A.
I did rent a room in my name.
17
Q.
After the election?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
After Eric Yollick told you-all to go back?
20
A.
Yeah.
21
Q.
Did you attend the meeting at Eric Yollick's office
22
after the election where the contest was discussed?
23
A.
Yes, I did.
24
Q.
Do you remember being asked to slow up at his office
25
and a Saturday when the air conditioning was off?

281-723-9090
198
A.
I don't remember that.
Q.
Do you recall ever having to go meet with Eric
Yollick and give him a credible story as to why you were moving
into the Residence Inn that had nothing to do with the
election?
A.
No, I don't remember.
Q.
You don't remember having to do that?
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
What was your reason for -- did you come up
10
with a reason or state a reason as to why you were moving into
11
the Residence Inn?
12
A.
To who?
13
Q.
To Eric Yollick at any time?
14
A.
Did I state a reason why I was -- I don't understand
15
the question.
16
Q.
Okay.
I'm -- you don't recall having to explain why
17
you were staying at the Residence Inn to Eric Yollick for any
18
reason?
19
A.
Do I have --
20
Q.
If you don't recall, you don't recall.
21
A.
No, I don't recall.
22
Q.
All right.
23
A.
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
24
Q.
Did you have meetings with Eric Yollick after the
25
Let's get to the crux of the matter.
election, before and during the civil lawsuit at his office?

281-723-9090
199
A.
Yes, I believe so.
Q.
And was the status of your residence as well as the
other people in the lawsuit, was that discussed at these
meetings?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
And the status of people's residences being
listed at the Residence Inn, was that also discussed?
A.
I'm sorry.
The status?
Q.
The status of people listing their residences at the
10
Residence Inn.
I know it's difficult.
It's the same word
11
twice.
12
their residence, was that also discussed?
But the fact that people were calling the Residence Inn
13
A.
Yes, it was -- yes.
14
Q.
Okay.
Let's talk about residence, okay?
I'll show
15
you -- from the election code.
16
touched this machine in a while, so I'll probably mess it up a
17
lot.
18
This is the first time I've
But do you recall seeing this definition of
19
"residence" the election code when you changed your voter
20
registration in March of 2010?
21
22
23
24
25
A.
Do I recall seeing the definition of "residence"?
No, I don't recall.

Q.
Okay.
You said you read the Attorney General
opinion?
A.
Yes.

281-723-9090
200
Q.
And you read the Secretary of State's opinion?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
Do you recall those two opinions both laying
out in almost precisely this format, this law, the definition
of residence under Section 1.015 of the Texas Election Code?
6
7
8
9
A.
I can't say what it said.
All I know is that after
reading that, we feel -- I felt that we met qualifications.

Q.
Okay.
Let's talk about that.
The first line says,
"In this code, residence means domicile.
That is one's home
10
and fixed place of habitation to which one intends to return
11
after any temporary absence."
12
Okay.
13
A.
No, not specifically.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
right?
But let's talk about it.
Just Line A.
Domicile is a house,
A dwelling?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
A home and fixed place of habitation.
For almost 35
18
years at the time of this election, you lived in Magnolia at
19
Hartman, right?
20
A.
That's correct.
21
Q.
That was your domicile; was it not?
22
A.
Yes, it was.
23
Q.
It was your home, right?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
It was your fixed place of habitation?

281-723-9090
201
A.
Yes.
Q.
And when you were done with this election, you
returned to Hartman in Magnolia, right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And if you were asked that question under oath on
May 8th of 2010, that would have been your answer, right, the
house on Hartman was your home, your fixed place of habitation?
A.
I'm not sure what May 8th was.
Q.
May 8th was the day you voted in this election?
10
A.
Well, if I was asked, I would have to say that --
11
Q.
By the end of the weekend, you returned to the house
12
on Hartman in Magnolia, right?
13
A.
That's correct.
14
Q.
With no intent to return to the Residence Inn?
15
A.
No, I didn't think so.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
And I'm going for the rest of my questioning
call it "the hotel," because that's what it is.
18
A.
All right.
19
Q.
So that I don't say "residence" so many times that I
20
confuse you.
21
That's Paragraph A.
Paragraph B, "Residence
22
shall be determined in accordance with the common law rules as
23
enunciated by the courts of this state except as otherwise
24
provided by this code."
25
That's a bunch of legalese.
You didn't go to law school, did you?

281-723-9090
202
A.
No.
Q.
You don't know exactly what that means, right?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you care?
A.
Well -- not really.
6
7
8
You don't care, do you?

I'm not going lose any sleep
over it.
Q.
Reading that sentence doesn't help you answer
questions about what you did on May 8th of 2010, right?
A.
No, not really.
10
Q.
We'll go to C.
"A person does not lose the person's
11
residence by leaving the person's home to go to another place
12
for temporary purposes only."
13
14
Mr. Goeddertz, isn't it true that you went to

the Residence Inn for a temporary purposes?
15
A.
Unless my house sold.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
A.
I put my house up for sale.
18
Q.
All right.
19
A.
Okay.
20
Q.
But unless your house sold, which we'll get to, you
21
I'll talk about that.
were going to return to the house?
22
A.
Yeah.
23
Q.
And were you at the hotel for a temporary purpose,
24
25
right?
A.
Yes.

281-723-9090
203
Q.
Fair to call the hotel "a temporary residence"?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Because you only stayed there with the intention of
only staying there one to two nights?
A.
Yes.
Q.
"A person does not acquire a residence in a place to
which the person has come for temporary purposes only and
without the intention of making that place the person's home."
9
10
Isn't it true that you went to the hotel for

temporary purposes?
11
A.
To establish a residency.
12
Q.
A residency, but not a home, correct?
13
A.
Yeah.
14
Q.
The power was still on?
15
You got to speak up.
She's
losing you.
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
That's why I'm doing most of the "correct."
18
you have to say is "correct."
19
Reporter, because I'm usually correct.
20
So all
We make it easy on the Court
Section E talks about prison inmates and isn't
21
relevant.
So those answers you gave me as to residence, those
22
are the same answers you would have given under oath on May 8
23
of 2010, right?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Now, you mentioned selling your home.

281-723-9090
204
A.
Yeah.
Q.
You have a unique situation with your ex-wife, right?
You're still -- she's your ex-wife, but you're still --
A.
Yeah.
Q.
-- involved?
A.
Yeah, I love her.
Q.
Right.
A.
She has a residence; I have a residence.
Q.
You vote separately, separate residences?
10
A.
Yeah.
11
Q.
What do you for a living?
12
A.
I'm a contractor.
13
Q.
And what does she do?
14
A.
She's a beautician.
15
Q.
Did she have a real estate license back in 2010?
16
A.
Yeah, she did.
17
Q.
You act surprised; but we've talked before, haven't
A.
Yes.
18
19
20
21
22
Okay.
But she has her own home?
we?
Maybe I'll ask you.
I don't know.
You seem to
know a lot more than I do.

Q.
Like Mr. Walker said, I don't have to answer the
questions.
23
A.
I'll just ask you.
24
Q.
I'm sorry.
25
A.
Yes, she does.
Your wife had a realtors license, right?

281-723-9090
205
1
2
Q.
And at the time of this election, you went ahead and
you actually put your house up for sale, right?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
Okay.
5
6
And is it fair to say that you put the asking
price up well above what you thought was a fair market value?
A.
I put the asking price at what she suggested.
thought it was too high, but she said you could get that for
that property.
Q.
You thought it was too high?
10
A.
I guess I did.
11
Q.
And did you get any offers?
12
A.
I got a lot of calls.
13
Q.
And once they found out the asking price, what
14
happened to those calls?
15
A.
They disappeared.
16
Q.
So it wasn't a realistic attempt to sale the house,
17
really, was it?
18
A.
No, I can't say that.
19
Q.
It wasn't a fair market value being asked, was it?
20
A.
Well, I would always start high.
21
Q.
Right.
22
It was.
And if you got that high, you would have sold
the house?
23
A.
Oh, yeah.
24
Q.
But you didn't get it?
25
A.
No, I didn't get it.

281-723-9090
206
1
2
Q.
Would you have gone and lived with her, maybe, if you
had sold the house until you found another place?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
But not the Residence Inn?
A.
Probably not.
MR. GLICKLER:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
9
10
11
No further questions, Your Honor.

Yes.
BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
Showing you what's marked as State's Exhibit No. 7,
12
Texas voter registration application.
13
that your application?
And here on Page 5, is
14
A.
That's correct.
15
Q.
Did you fill that out?
16
A.
Yes, I did.
17
Q.
And what did you put as your mailing address?
18
A.
15910 Hartman.
19
Q.
And does all the information, the address, the date
20
of birth, the phone number has been redacted, but all the
21
information contained in there correct?
22
A.
That's correct, yes, sir.
23
Q.
Now, let me ask you a silly question.
24
25
Goeddertz, right?
A.
Am I saying your name right?
Yeah, that's fine, yeah.

281-723-9090
You are Peter
207
Q.
And you spelled that correctly; is that right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And what did you do with that form after you filled
it out?
A.
We submitted it.
Q.
Did you have any conversations or meetings or
anything with anyone outside of -- I'll use the term "the
group"?
election, prior to the vote?
10
11
Anybody that did not vote in the road utility district
A.
No, I can't say that.
I believe I discussed it.
probably discussed it with Linda.
12
Q.
Who is Linda?
13
A.
My wife -- my ex-wife.
14
Q.
Anybody else that you can recall?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
You weren't trying to vote under a cover of darkness,
17
18
Well -- no.
were you?
A.
19
No.
I thought everybody knew what we were doing.

MR. WALKER:
20
21
22
I don't -- I don't recall.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GLICKLER:
Q.
Mr. Goeddertz, do you recall that the Attorney
23
General opinion and Secretary of State's opinion that you read
24
was specifically about four-year college students of Prairie
25
View A & M University and their right to vote, correct?

281-723-9090
208
1
2
A.
I was not -- no.
That came up at some point, I
believe, and I don't recall when, though.
Q.
You don't recall when or where?
A.
No.
Q.
Because you don't really recall those opinions now.
Four years later, you don't recall them very well, do you?
A.
saying?
Q.
10
Well, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
What are you
The Secretary of State's opinion and the Attorney
General's opinion that you said you read four years ago --
11
A.
I believe they were connected.
12
Q.
-- about -- by the Prairie View A & M situation?
13
A.
Yes, I believed that.
14
15
MR. GLICKLER:
Okay.
No further questions, Your
Honor.
16
THE COURT:
Anything else?
17
MR. WALKER:
18
THE COURT:
19
MR. WALKER:
20
THE COURT:
21
Next witness, please.
22
MR. WALKER:
23
THE COURT:
24
(Bench conference off the record.)
25
THE COURT:
No, sir.
Yes, sir.
You are excused, sir.
Thank you.
May we approach, Your Honor?

Yes.
We'll take a ten-minute break,

281-723-9090
209
Ladies and Gentleman.
you very much.
Stretch your legs a little bit.
Thank
We're in recess.
THE COURT:
jury is ready.
7
8
I told them ten minutes.
THE COURT:
proceed.
All right.
I think we are ready to
You may call your next witness, sir.

MR. WALKER:
12
(Witness is sworn.)
13
MR. WALKER:
14
THE COURT:
15
I call Phil Grant.

Your witness.
PHIL GRANT,
17
18
They have had five.
courtroom.)
11
16
Let's see if the
9
10
Everybody ready?
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:
19
Q.
State your name for the Court, please?
20
A.
Phil Grant.
21
Q.
Mr. Grant, how are you employed?
22
A.
I'm the first assistant district attorney at the
23
24
25
Montgomery County District Attorney's Office.

Q.
Does that put you as second in command in the
district attorney's office?

281-723-9090
210
A.
Yes.
Q.
And who is your boss?
A.
Brett Ligon, the elected district attorney.
Q.
You are not elected.
You are hired by Mr. Ligon to
serve in your role; is that correct?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
How long have you been a prosecutor?
A.
Since 1996.
Q.
And what jurisdictions have you practiced in?
10
A.
I was in Harris County for a little over eight years.
11
Williamson County for about four and a half years and then
12
Brett asked me to come down here and be his first assistance.
13
I started January 1st of 2009.
14
15
Q.
And is that the entirety of the time Mr. Ligon has
been in office?
16
A.
That's correct.
17
Q.
Give me an overview of the district attorney's
18
office.
19
A.
How many prosecutors are down there?

We have a little over 40 prosecutors, about a hundred
20
total staff, including legal assistants, paralegals, and
21
investigators.
22
Q.
And in total, how many employees approximately?
23
A.
About a hundred.
24
Q.
And I'm sure the jury is somewhat aware, but tell me
25
what the duties of the district attorney for Montgomery County

281-723-9090
211
1
2
are?
A.
The duties of the Montgomery County District
Attorney's Office are to prosecute all adult criminal offenses
from Class C traffic tickets, all the way to capital murder
cases.
limited civil matters, but mainly civil jurisdiction is with
the county attorney's office.
8
9
Q.
We prosecute -- we prosecute it all.
We have some
And does this involve any violation, whether it be in
the Penal Code or, in this case, election code or any other
10
felony -- or criminal offenses in the State of Texas that
11
occurs in Montgomery County?
12
13
14
15
A.
Any of the adult criminal offenses, no matter what
code they're in, we're responsible for prosecuting.

Q.
Does the district attorney's office have a public
integrity division?
16
A.
We do.
17
Q.
And describe to me what Public Integrity Division is?
18
A.
Well, the purpose of that division is to basically
19
investigate any type of crime that would cause the public to
20
question official government operation.
21
different things from officer-involved shootings to teachers
22
that engage in sexual misconduct with students, any type of
23
theft or misconduct by public officials.
24
investigate anything involving governmental operation.
25
Q.
So we handle lots of
And we also tend to
And as -- by way of example, if a police officer, I

281-723-9090
212
don't know, is accused of a burglary, would this typically fall
under the heading of public integrity?
A.
Only if it was -- he was in his official capacity
when he did it.
DWI, we're not going investigate that.
in some type of misconduct while they're on duty, that becomes
our responsibility.
8
9
10
11
Q.
If a police officer is off duty and they get a

But if they're involved
I guess I need to be more clear in my question.
used an example of an officer gets a DWI.
You
Obviously, your
office still prosecutes that officer, correct?

A.
Yes, we still prosecute it.
It wouldn't fall in the
12
Public Integrity Division, though, unless it was in the course
13
of their official capacity.
14
Q.
Same thing, if an elected official, if they're
15
accused of some sort of malfeasance within their office, that
16
would fall under the heading of the Public Integrity Division?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
At some point -- well, let's get right to the
case here.
20
I'm going to show you what's marked as
21
Defendants' Exhibit 1 and ask you if you recognize that
22
document.
23
A.
I do.
24
Q.
Is that an accurate copy of what it purports to be?
25
A.
It appears to be, yes.

281-723-9090
213
1
2
MR. WALKER:
I'm going to tender it to opposing
counsel and ask that it be admitted.
MR. WHITE:
No objection.
THE COURT:
Admitted.
(Defendants' Exhibit 1 admitted.)
Q.
Let's go through this document.
What is it?
A.
It's a letter that I drafted and sent out to a number
of individuals that registered to vote in an election back in
2010, it looks like.
10
Q.
And who was this specific letter addressed to?
11
A.
Sybil Doyle.
12
Q.
Do you know Ms. Doyle at all?
13
A.
I don't.
14
Q.
Do you know of a woman by the name of Roberta Cook?
15
A.
I don't think I do.
16
Q.
But in any event, you sent out this letter to all of
17
18
the -- where did you get that list from, the registered voters?
A.
From the Montgomery County elections, I believe.
It
19
was -- we sent it out to everybody that was registered to vote
20
in that upcoming election.
21
22
Q.
Do you remember an exact or approximate number of
letters that you had to send?
23
A.
I don't, not off the top of my head.
24
Q.
And in your letter, first paragraph here, you
25
It wasn't many.
indicate that your office had received an official complaint,

281-723-9090
214
alleging fraudulent voter registration.
complaint was received from?
A.
Do you recall who that
I believe it was received from The Woodlands Township
via James Stilwell, I believe.
And maybe some -- some other
attorneys that were involved in the road utility district, as
well.
Q.
And who is Mr. Stilwell, to your knowledge?
A.
He's a civil lawyer down in The Woodlands.
Q.
And so what do you recall as far as your interaction
10
or your conversations with Mr. Stilwell prior to the drafting
11
of this letter?
By the way, when was the letter drafted?
12
A.
April 21, 2010, it looks like.
13
Q.
And when did you -- describe the content or how
14
15
extensive your conversations with Mr. Stilwell were?

A.
We met a few times, I believe, in between voter
16
registration and the election.
17
We did some research.
18
Woodlands Road Utility District just so I could get a better
19
understanding of what that governmental entity was.
20
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
I went down to The Woodlands.
Met with some folks involved in The
Had you ever heard of that before this whole thing
came up?
A.
I had heard of road utility districts before, but not
specifically this one.

Q.
As far as the complaint in your dealings with
Mr. Stilwell, what else did you do?

281-723-9090
215
A.
We took in the information that they brought us
regarding the people that are registered to vote there.
We did
some independent investigation, figured out what we believe was
going on, and determined that the best course of action was to
send this letter out.
Q.
And you say "we."
A.
In consultation with my boss, we made this decision.
Q.
That's Mr. Ligon, right?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Anybody else involved from the DA's office as far as
11
12
Who is "we"?
the investigation or discussion of this issue?

A.
Adrienne Frazier was an attorney working for our
13
office that was assigned to the Public Integrity Division at
14
the time.
15
of looking at this situation and briefing me on the law and the
16
kind of structure of the road utility district.
17
Q.
She was my subordinate, but she was involved in kind
And I think we skipped over that point.
But did you
18
consider this to fall under the Public Integrity Division of
19
the district attorney's office?
20
21
22
23
24
25
A.
The integrity of the electoral process is something
that that division handles, yes.

Q.
Back in the 2010, what was the makeup of the Public
Integrity Division?
A.
It was myself, Adrienne Frazier, and some assistance
from our chief and assistant chief investigator when necessary.

281-723-9090
216
Q.
And you said that there was some independent
investigation done by your office.
that investigation was?
A.
Do you recall what nature
We went down and interviewed a couple of folks that
were registered to vote in that area to determine whether or
not they really had a legitimate residence, which they did.
Q.
Do you recall who that was?
A.
The Laukiens.
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
Went down and consulted with the road utility
What else, if anything?
11
district's attorneys, did independent research on the structure
12
of the road utility district, looked at the history of the
13
elections, pulled all the electoral records that we could that
14
we thought were relevant, did some research on the individuals
15
that had registered to vote in this election to determine
16
whether or not they actually resided in the road utility
17
district.
18
the decision to send out the letter.
19
Q.
And once we had concerns about that fact, we made
At the time you're doing this investigation and
20
drafting this letter, what was the concern?
What did -- what
21
was Mr. Stilwell -- what were they thinking was going to
22
happen?
23
A.
Well, our concern was that there were people that
24
were going to try to vote in this election that didn't actually
25
reside in the road utility district.

281-723-9090
217
Q.
And by this time, were there additional people
besides the Laukiens that had registered to vote in that
district?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you recall any of those names?
quiz time.
Well, it's not pop
Let me give you the names.
Do you recall Adrian Heath?
A.
Sure.
Q.
Do you recall Jim Jenkins?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Do you recall either Roberta Cook or Sybil Doyle?
12
A.
Obviously, Sybil Doyle if I sent her a letter.
13
Q.
But you don't have any independent recollection of
14
investigating regarding her specifically?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
But she got a letter, so she was on that list of
17
applicants -- or actually the registered voters in that
18
district, correct?
19
A.
We sent it to every registered voter in the district.
20
Q.
What did you suggest that these registered voters do
21
22
in your letter?
A.
Well, the purpose of the letter was to encourage them
23
to review the relevant statutes out there on voter registration
24
and where you could vote and encourage them to vote
25
appropriately.

281-723-9090
218
Q.
And you also referenced them to a couple of websites?
A.
Yes.
Q.
What were those websites?
A.
The Attorney General's office and the Secretary of
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
State.
Q.
And what were those -- what do we've from those tow
entities that you referred them to?

A.
There were some opinions that I thought were
informative on the current state of election law in the state

of Texas.
Q.
And I don't remember if you said or not, but you also
encouraged them to seek legal counsel?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Do you know Adrian Heath?
15
A.
I do.
16
Q.
How do you know Mr. Heath?
17
A.
Prior to this incident, Adrian Heath had been a
18
person I had run into at various and a sundry of conservative
19
functions.
20
local government and would make me aware of those.
21
call on occasion and discuss things with me.
22
pretty fair amount of interaction with Adrian Heath prior to
23
this incident.
24
25
Q.
He was very vocal in some of his opinions about

He would
So I had had a
There's a certain amount of politics that goes with
your job and certainly with your boss' job.

281-723-9090
So you know who
219
the dead flies are.
in the county are, in a general sense, right?
A.
You know who the politically active people
I was learning those people.
I was only a year or so
into Montgomery County politics, so I was learning some of the
folks in the area.
6
7
Q.
And certainly you would put Mr. Heath under that
heading, correct?
A.
He was active.
Q.
Let's talk about Jim Jenkins.
10
Do you know Jim
Jenkins?
11
A.
Yes, sir.
12
Q.
Tell me about Mr. Jenkins.
13
A.
I had met with Jim Jenkins on numerous occasions
14
about some of his concerns regarding local entities.
15
Q.
Same thing for him, politically active guy?
16
A.
Very involved.
17
Q.
Do you recall having conversations with Mr. Heath
18
regarding specifically the election for the Board of Directors
19
of the road utility district?
20
A.
I believe he did call me after I sent out this letter
21
and I had a conversation with him about the election.
22
have stopped by.
23
had at least one conversation with him specifically about this
24
after I sent the letter.
25
Q.
He may
He would stop by on occasion, but I know I
You specifically recall one telephone call, but there

281-723-9090
220
may have been other conversations either by telephone or in
person regarding this issue?
A.
That's the best of my recollection.
Q.
Four years have passed since this happened, right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
Let's talk about Mr. Jenkins.
Do you recall
having any telephone conversations or in-person meetings with
Mr. Jenkins specifically about the Board of Directors election
for the road utility district?
10
A.
I don't recall any with Mr. Jenkins.
11
Q.
And your letter went out prior to that election; is
12
that correct?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Did you send any other communications in writing or
15
did you have any conversations with any of the registered
16
voters after this letter and prior to the election?
17
A.
Not that I recall.
18
Q.
Does your letter tell any specific voters that you've
19
drawn the legal conclusion that they are not eligible voters
20
for that RUD?
21
A.
No, sir.
22
Q.
What does your letter -- in a nutshell, what does
23
your letter tell them to do?
24
A.
I think it cautions them to not vote illegally.
25
Q.
And you referred them to resource materials, as well,

281-723-9090
221
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Would illegal voting -- that would be a criminal
offense, right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And that would fall under the auspices of the
Montgomery County District Attorney's Office; is that correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And the gentlemen to my right, did they work for your
10
office?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
And did your office pursue criminal charges against
13
14
15
16
17
They work for the Attorney General's office.
either Sybil Doyle or Roberta Cook?

A.
We referred the investigation to the Attorney
General's office, so I would have to say yes.

Q.
You got the complaint -- well, you got the complaint
before it ever happened?
18
A.
Right.
19
Q.
And then once the election took place, you received
20
further complaints, I'm assuming, did you?
21
A.
22
the election.
23
Q.
24
25
Yes, sir.
And we did additional investigation after
And who did you receive complaints for after the
election?
A.
Well, I mean, the same individuals were involved in a

281-723-9090
222
kind of keeping us up to date on who had actually voted and
what the results were.
documentation, et cetera, from a hotel where some of these
folks had stayed, some other things like that, and then
packaged it all up and shipped it to the Secretary of State.
6
7
Q.
And then we went out and obtained
And Mr. Stilwell, was he one of the people that you
spoke with?
A.
Post election?
Q.
Correct.
10
A.
I'm sure.
11
Q.
I'm drawing a blank on his name now, but the attorney
12
for the road utility district?
13
A.
I think it's Page, Mike Page.
14
Q.
You are correct.
15
16
17
18
19
Mr. Page.
Did you speak with him after the election?

A.
I probably did.
I don't have any independent
recollection, but I'm sure I did.

Q.
Certainly during the course of this whole mess, you
dealt with Mr. Page, right?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Recalling conversations with anyone that had voted in
22
that election after the election?
23
A.
I've had a few conversations with Adrian Heath since
24
the election.
25
other conversations with Pete Goeddertz and maybe some of the
And I've had -- I think I've had a couple of

281-723-9090
223
1
2
other guys at various and sundry election events.

Q.
You crossed paths with these people at the fish fry
or the barbecue or whatever that has some political aspect,
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Have you ever expressed the opinion in any public
sense that you find the definition of "residence" in need of
clarification?
A.
I think I have, yes, sir.
10
Q.
In what venue was that?
11
A.
I believe I was quoted in a Conroe Courier article,
12
13
14
15
something to that effect.

Q.
If you would just paraphrase what you said.
I don't
have it in front of me.

A.
I don't recall exactly what I said.
I think I was
16
expressing some frustration with the Secretary of State's
17
opinions on the matter.
18
Q.
And as part of your investigation, you made yourself
19
familiar with the definition of "residence" in the election
20
code, correct?
21
A.
Yes, sir.
22
MR. WALKER:
23
I pass the witness.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
24
BY MR. WHITE:
25
Q.
Mr. Grant, you testified that your main concern when

281-723-9090
224
you sent these letters out was that folks who didn't reside in
the road utility district were going to vote there.
correct?
Is that
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And so the purpose of your letter was to -- I believe
you testified to encourage them to research the law and not
vote illegally.
8
9
A.
Is that right?
That's right.
I mean, there was an argument to be
made that they had already committed a criminal offense for
10
filling out a registration form in the first place.
11
office tries to take the tact in the Public Integrity Division,
12
at least, of education first, prosecution second.
13
was to educate them, help them make the right decision, and
14
therefore, help them avoid prosecution.
15
16
Q.
19
20
21
So my hope
Was that your hope in writing that letter, that you
would be able to avoid prosecution of these individuals?
17
18
But our
A.
It was my hope they made the right decision, yes,
Q.
And why is it that you take that tact with crimes
sir.
like this, particularly with voting offenses?

A.
I think people are passionate about politics and
22
sometimes they let that go to their heads and they don't really
23
make smart decisions in that regard.
24
passionate.
25
think sometimes what the consequences of their actions are
These guys are
I mean, they are -- and I just think they don't

281-723-9090
225
going to be.
Q.
It would have been possible for you to write a letter
that said you probably will be committing a crime if you do
this and we highly recommend that you don't do it.
write that letter, right?
You could
A.
I could have written it that way.
Q.
Is there a policy reason, especially in regard to
voting offenses, that you wouldn't right the letter in that
way?
10
A.
Well, there were some people that were registered to
11
vote in that district properly in my cursory investigation
12
prior to the election and you don't want to discourage people
13
that have the right to vote from voting in the appropriate
14
place.
15
attorney to provide legal advice to citizens.
16
of ethical sticky situations when we do that, if we advise
17
somebody incorrectly.
18
could do in this particular circumstance was to educate.
19
them to the resources and hope they made the right decision.
20
Q.
So -- and it's not my job as an assistant district

You get in kind
So we felt like the only thing that we

Point
Now, on the topic of not discouraging voters, not
21
disenfranchising voters, I want to talk a little bit about the
22
Secretary of State's position on residency and your views of
23
issue of residency.
24
When you read the election code definition of
25
"residence," Section 1.015, which not sure if it's up on the

281-723-9090
226
screen?
MR. WALKER:
MR. WHITE:
Here, I'll get you mine.

Got a copy right here.
A.
I'm familiar with it.
Q.
(By Mr. White)
And being familiar with this specific
definition under Subsection A, if says in this code, "Residence
means domicile, one's home, a fixed place of habitation to
which one intends to return after any temporary absence."
Do you find that that definition under the
10
election code lacks clarity?
11
A.
I don't think that definition lacks clarity, no.
12
Q.
And Subsection B is a little bit of legalese that
13
says, "Residence shall be determined in accordance with the
14
common law rules as enunciated by the courts of this state
15
except as otherwise provided by this code."
16
When we add that last portion and we look at
17
that, "except as otherwise provided by this code," that tells
18
us that we can -- if we have a problem in our heads that we
19
created by looking at other sources, we come back to this code,
20
right?
21
A.
Correct.
The code controls.
22
Q.
And so if we were reading the common law court cases,
23
court opinions or certainly a Secretary of State opinion on
24
court cases, we would come back to this code if we had any
25
confusion, right?

281-723-9090
227
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And the code goes on to say in Subsection C, "A
person does not lose the person's residence by leaving the
person's home to go to another place for temporary purposes
only."
And that's pretty clear, isn't it?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And Subsection D, "A person does not acquire a
residence in a place to which the person has come for temporary
10
purposes only and without the intention of making that place
11
the person's home."
12
And is that pretty clear to you?
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
And so a person who has gone to, let's say, a hotel
15
for the temporary purpose of voting in that election and then
16
returning home, that's not a situation that lacks clarity, is
17
it, in your opinion?
18
A.
Not in my opinion.
19
Q.
And so when we talk about residency and lack of
20
clarity, is it really -- would it be more accurate to say that
21
the residency law is flexible enough to accommodate folks that
22
have special situations?
23
A.
Yes.
And that's where it does allow some
24
flexibility, where you have people that have two fixed
25
residences for different parts of the year.

281-723-9090
Maybe people that
228
summer someplace and winter someplace or students that go to
college.
where they go to college if they want to and they can register
where their mom and dad lives.
flexibility for those special circumstances.
Q.
That was one of the big cases.
Students can register
And the law allows certain
In fact, the two opinions that you referenced in your
letter to the targets of this letter and the Defendants of --
Doyle, at least, in this case, were written specifically on a
situation involving four-year college students at Prairie View
10
A & M University; is that correct?
11
A.
That's correct.
12
Q.
And as far as you know, Ms. Doyle wasn't a student at
13
a four-year university at the time you sent this letter?
14
A.
Not that I'm aware of.
15
Q.
And unless I'm mistaken, there's not a four-year
16
university inside The Woodlands Road Utility District, is
17
there?
18
19
20
21
22
A.
Lone Star Montgomery might touch it.
about that.
Q.
Okay.
That's not an institution that has on-campus
living, is it?
A.
No.
23
MR. WHITE:
24
25
I'm not sure
Okay.
Pass the witness.
REDIRECT-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WALKER:

281-723-9090
229
Q.
As a practicing attorney, you have to deal with
various codes; but your primary focus would probably be with
the Code of Criminal Procedure and the Texas Penal Code,
correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And would you agree with me that a lot of our various
codes, whether it be the real property code or the penal code,
a lot of times they lead off or early in the code, they have a
section dealing with definitions?
10
A.
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
I think it's 107 in the penal code; is that correct?
12
A.
I'm going to trust you.
13
Q.
We'll talk about that one out in the hall.
14
15
Okay.
But that is a common thing within Texas

jurisprudence; is that correct?
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
And the -- when you expressed your frustration with
18
the definition of "residence," we're pretty much -- or you tell
19
me.
20
on that Subsection B of the definition of "residence" in the
21
election code?
Was your reference -- or your level of frustration based
22
A.
Where it references common law?
23
Q.
Correct.
24
A.
No, not really.
25
Q.
Okay.
Where did your frustration as far as the

281-723-9090
230
clarity of that definition come in?
A.
I think the Secretary of State is my frustration.
Q.
Their interpretation of that definition; is that
correct?
5
6
Some unofficial interpretations they have made, yes,
Q.
Okay.
sir.
7
8
A.
Tell us who the duties of -- in a broad sense
of the Secretary of State in Texas?
A.
Come on.
Basically the Secretary of State is in
10
charge of maintaining a lot of governmental operations or
11
controlling a lot of governmental operations.
12
13
Q.
I think they're in charge of corporations, et cetera,
as far as administration?
14
A.
All that kind of stuff, yes.
15
Q.
They are also charged with conducting elections; is
16
that correct?
17
A.
They do have a large responsibility in elections,
Q.
At the time you sent that letter that's Defense
18
19
yes.
20
Exhibit No. 1, what information was within your knowledge as
21
far as what the plan of these individuals who had registered at
22
that hotel?
23
A.
What was my understanding of their plan?
24
Q.
Yeah.
25
A.
Was that they register for a night at the hotel prior

281-723-9090
231
to filling out their registration form, which I'm seeing up
here, and their plan was to go spend the night again the night
of the election and claim they had a temporary residence at
this extended-stay hotel.
5
6
7
8
Q.
Were you involved at all with the presentation of
these cases to a Grand Jury?

A.
I don't remember if I was or not, to be honest.
It's
possible.
MR. WALKER:
10
I pass the witness.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
11
BY MR. WHITE:
12
Q.
Would it surprise you to learn that the Defendants
13
never stayed a single night at the hotel before they swore that
14
that was their residence address on their voter registration
15
application forms?
16
A.
That would surprise me.
17
Q.
Would it surprise you that these two Defendants never
18
stayed a night at the hotel before they voted in that election?
19
A.
That would surprise me.
20
Q.
Would it surprise you that these two Defendants had
21
never stayed a single night at that hotel in their lives and
22
voted in that election?
23
24
25
A.
That would be problematic.

MR. WHITE:
Pass the witness.
FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

281-723-9090
232
1
2
BY MR. WALKER:
Q.
Does the definition of "residence" contained in the
election code have anything to -- does it state anything about
spending the night?
A.
I believe it does, yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
A.
I mean, maybe not with those words; but a domicile is
8
9
where you live.

Q.
It's where you spend the night.
Right.
Are you familiar -- did you -- once this
10
issue came to -- on your plate, did you research the common law
11
as interpreted by the courts of the state?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Are you familiar with the case of Mills v. Bartlett?
14
A.
You're going to have to show it to me.
15
Q.
I don't have it.
16
A.
Do you know what the facts are?
17
Q.
Mills v. Bartlett is an election case involving -- I
18
19
20
believe it's around Waco.

A.
Not familiar off the top of my head.
I have to look
at it.
21
Q.
Fair enough.
22
A.
Yes.
But you did do that research?
23
MR. WALKER:
I pass the witness.
24
MR. WHITE:
No further questions.
25
THE COURT:

281-723-9090
233
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we're going to
break for the evening, all right?
instructions the Court has given to you and we will see you in
the morning at 9:00 o'clock.
recess.
Please remember the
Thank you very much.
(Proceedings adjourned.)
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

281-723-9090
We're in
234
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY
I, Karen D. deShetler, Deputy Court Reporter, in and
for the 359th Judicial District Court of Montgomery County,
State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing
contains a true and correct transcription of all portions of
evidence and other proceedings requested in writing by counsel
for the parties to be included in this volume of the Reporter's
Record, in the above-styled and numbered cause, all of which
10
11
occurred in open court or in chambers and were reported by me.

I further certify that this Reporter's Record of the
12
proceedings truly and correctly reflects the exhibits, if any,
13
admitted by the respective parties.
14
I further certify that the total cost for the
15
preparation of the Reporter's Record is $2,950 and will be paid
16
by the Defendants.
17
18
WITNESS MY OFFICIAL HAND this the 13th day of

February, 2015.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
/s/Karen D. deShetler
Karen D. deShetler, CSR 1688
Expiration Date: 12/31/2014
Deputy Court Reporter
359th Judicial District Court
Montgomery County, Texas
P.O. Box 132498
The Woodlands, Texas 77393
Telephone: 281-723-9090

281-723-9090

Doyle RUD Trial Transcript Vol 5

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Doyle RUD Trial Transcript Vol 5

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1

THE STATE OF TEXAS

SYBIL DOYLE AND ROBERTA

On April 1st, 2014, the following proceedings

came on to be heard in the above-entitled and numbered cause

before the Honorable John Stevens, Judge Presiding, 359th

District Court, held in Conroe, Montgomery County, Texas.

Proceedings reported by machine shorthand and

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

FOR THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL:

Mr. David Glickler

Mr. Jonathan White

FOR THE DEFENDANT:

Mr. Jarrod Walker

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

FOR THE STATE:

Motion for Directed Verdict by Defense.................

Court's Ruling on Motion for Directed Verdict..........

FOR THE DEFENDANT:

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

FOR THE DEFENSE:

Cert. Mont. Cty. Elec. Recds Voter Reg...

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

We recall 12-03-2583 and

are present with their attorney and the State's attorney.

Yes, Your Honor.

Bring the jury in

(At this time the jury enters the courtroom.)

I believe we are ready to proceed

and when we recessed yesterday, Mr. Stilwell was testifying and

being examined by the State.

And the State of Texas may

Thank you, Your Honor.

had offered State's 6 and it was admitted I think the record

(State's Exhibit 6 admitted.)

DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED)

Mr. Stilwell, before we dive into State's Exhibit 6,

I just wanted to go back to what we were speaking about

We had spoken about the business and economic

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

We had spoken about the free use of the roads to the

use of those roads.

I want to talk a little bit about what type of tax it

actually is on those business properties because we didn't get

into that specific detail.

Can you explain that to us?

As I was talking about the road utility

district and describing it, I mentioned that there was a

substantial amount of commercial property that's located inside

utility district is a real property tax, sometimes referred to

as an ad valorem tax, but if you think of it as a property tax

that's based on the value of the property.

The tax that is on -- instituted by the road

And are those the type of taxes that a homeowner in

that context would see, perhaps, on their -- I guess their

I'm going to object to relevance,

For instance, the county assesses on residences a

The school assesses on residences a school tax.

The township in The Woodlands assesses a property tax on

The road utility district does not.

KAREN D. DESHETLER, CSR

on those commercial properties inside its bounds.