This lecture was printed in Incontri Musicali, August I959.

There are four

measures iri each line end twelve lines iri ecch an-it of the rhythmic structure.
There are forty-eight such unite, each he-cing forty-eight measures. The
-ichcle is clioided irito fice lcrge parts, iri the proportion F, 5', Lt, I4, F.
The fcrty~eight rnececree of each criit are likewise so dicided. The text is
pririted in four cchrrnns to fccilitcte c rhythmic reading. Ecch line is to he
reed ccrcee the page from left tc right, riot down the cchirurls in sequence.
This should not he done in an articial rr1cririer{1c-hich might result from an
attempt to he too strictly faithful to the position of the words on the page), hut
with the ruhato which one aces in ecerydey speech.

LECTURE ON NOTHING
I am here

those who wish to get

any moment
sence

I
I

tainment

and there is nothing to say

somewhere
.

If among you are

let them leave at
What we requ.ire

is

;
but what silence requires
that I go on talking
.

a push
:
but the pusher
and the pushed
called
a discussion
Shall we have one later ?

Give any one thought

it falls down easily
p1'oduce
that enter.

"IF
we could simply de~cide

Ur
cussion
now

.,

words

make

not to have a dis-

What ever you like .

there are silences
help make

But
and the
the

silences

and I am saving it
poetry

as I need it

I have nothing to say

and that is
.

This space of time

is organized
We need not fear these

silenoes, -

TU
LECTURE DH HDTHlHG,1"'["i

we may love them

This is a oomposed
talk

,
just as I make

of milk
and we need the

for am making it
a piece of music.

It is like a glass

We need the

glass

milk

it is like an

empty glass

Ur again

into which

moment
.

anything
As we go along

at any
may he poured
[who knows?)

an idea may occur in this

or not.

talk
I have no idea

.
whether one will

If one does,

let it.

He-

Til

gard it as something
seen
though
from a window
If across Kansas

Arizona

'

almost too interting

being interested
needs

momentarily
while traveling

,
.

then, of course,

Kansas
is more interesting,

especially

in spite of himself

nothing on earth
,
It is like an empty glass ,
is it corn
?
Kansas
has this about it:
and whenever one wishes one may return to it

for a NewYorker

in everything.

the Kansas in him

as

who is

Now he knows he

Kansas is like

and for a New Yorker

nothing but wheat
Does it matter which
at any instant,
.

very refreshing.
,.
i
one may leave it,

T11

Ur you may leave it

forever

and never return to it

for we possess nothing

Our poetry now

is the reali-cation
Anything

that we possess
therefore

nothing
is a delight

(sinoe we do not

possess it}

We need not destroy the

at any moment,

.
owned it,

and thus

it might reappear and

Would it be a
hut since we dont,

need not fear its loss

past:

it is gone;

seem to he

and he the present

repetition?
it is free

Only if we thought we
and so are we

IIUISILEHCE

.-I

or

Most anybody knows ah-out the future

and how uncertain it is

.
Tl?

Wliat I am calling
poetry
I myself
have called
nuity
of a piece of music.

when it is necessary

intertedness.

That is,

is often called
it form
Continuity

is a demonstration

to enjoy

Hearing
-

Each moment
How different
that
which is bound up with
secondary them;
their struggle;
the recapitulation
[which is the belief

.
homes

But actually,
within us,

each.

breathtakingly

the telephone
or a sunset
each acts

that our delight

11F
toy

which enables us

come down in a

of dis-

it is a proof

lies in not
possessing anything
presents what happens .
from
this form sense is
memory:
themes
and
the climax;
their development;
own ones own home)
that one may
,
we carry our
unlike the snail

that which is

content.
.
It is the contitoday,

beautiful,

may ring

vacant lot
,

.
possessing neither
and the continuity
Nothing more than
nothing

or making this
only simpler -

in music
than living this way

Simpler, that is

or to stay
But beware of
for at any moment
or the airplane
A piece of string
happens
can he said.
is not different

for me, - because it happens

that I write music

ITPTPT

That music is
cept
simple
measured
accepted,
rare moments

train us

simple to make
comes from
ones willingness to acthe limitations
of structure.
Structure is
hecause
it can he thought out,
gured out,
_
.
It is a discipline
which,
in return
acoepts whatever
,
even those
of ecstasy,
which,
as sugar loaves train horses,

to make what we make

How could I
LECTURE DH NOTHING,-Pl II

-lg".

better tell
tell
contained
forty minutes

what structure
about this,
within
long

is
this talk
a space of time
P

than simply to
which is
approximately

ll?

That forty minutes

each lmit
is
volving
a square
permits
this

has been divided i11to

divided
root
is the
micromacrocosmic

which I nd so

acceptable

As you see,
It makes very little

I can say anything

diderence

ve
large
likewise.
only
possible
rhythmic structure

parts,
Subdivision
subdivision which
,

and
in

and accepting
.
what I say

or even how I say it.

At
this particular moment,
we are passing through the fourth
part
of a unit which is the
second unit in the second large
part of this talk
.
It is a little bit
like passing through Kansas
.
This, now, is the
end
of that second unit

Til

Now begins the

third unit

second part of that

third l1I1llI-

of the second part

.
Now the

Now its third part

part
length

(which, by the way,

as the third part)
Now the fth

Now its fo1u't.h

is just the same

.
and last part
Til

You have just

microcosmic
point of view
large part.
nothing
111,-SILENCE

es-perienced
the structure
of this talk
point of view
.
From a macrocosmic
we are just passing the halfway point
in the second
The rst part
was a rather rambling discussion of
,

of form,

and continuity

from a

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII------------W

when it is the way we

part
,
accept
ideas.
.
_

now
what it is

need it.
This second
is about structure:
how simple it is
and why
we should be willing

its limitations.
This one
But at any moment
Then
we may

Most speeches
are
doesnt have to have
an idea
enjoy it

to

full
any
may come along
.

of

Structure
structure

without life
is unseen

expresses itself
.
nicant.
soimd
.
because
conference
allowed me
as they ew up and
calendar

Each moment
Blackbirds
delicious

is dead.
.

But Life
Pure life

within
and through structure
is absolute,
alive and sigrise
from a eld making
beyond

and hours for breakfast

.
,

compare
I heard them

I accepted
the limitations
in a Virginia
girls nishing school,
quite by accident
overhead

without

of an arts
which limitations
to hear the blackbirds
There was a social
but one day I saw a

Til

cardinal
,
and the same day
heard a woodpecker.
I also met
Americas youngest
college president
.
However, '
she has resigned,
and people say she is
going into politics
.
Let her.
"Why shouldnt she?
I also had the
pleasure
of hearing an eminent
music critic
exclaim
that he hoped
he would live long
enough
to see the end
of this erase for Bach.
A pupil once
said to me:
I
understand
what you say about
Beethoven
and I think
I agree
but I have a
very serious
question
to
ask you:
How do you
feel
about Bach
i
Now we have come
to the end
of the
part
about structure
.
TEP TIP
However,
it oc-curs
to me to say more
about structure
.
Specically
this:
We are
now at
the beginning
of the third part
and that part
LECTURE UH NDTHIHGIIIS

hm

as we have seen,

devoted
to structure.
But Im still talking
about structure.
that structure
has
form
has no point either.

ginning to get

nowhere

is not the part

about material.
clear from that

Unless some

all I have

Its the part

It must be
no point,
and,
Clearly we are be

other idea crops up

to say about structure

a-bout it that is

.
Tll

Now about

material:

is it interesting

It is and it
certain.
,

isn't
If one is making
the one making must

.
something
love

But one thing is

which is to be nothing
and be patient
with

Utherwise
,

he calls attention to the

whereas it was

the material
material,

he chooses.
which is precisely something

nothing
himself,

that was being made;

whereas
The technique
what structure as a
discipline is
a means

or
nothing is anonymous
of handling materials
on the rational level
of experiencing

he calls attention to
.
.
is, on the sense level
:
nothing

ll?

I remember loving
sound
before I ever
.
and so we make our
lives
.

{Last year

That was because

I was talking
this year
I am talking
of course will go on
talking
pupil said,
three tones,

after trying to compose

I

her materials

Had she

,
there would not have

and
been

l l 4 ,4 5 I I. E H C E

took a music lesson

by what we love

when I talked here

about something
about nothing
for a long time
a melody
felt limited

I made a short talk.

but
and

.}
The other day a
using only
.

concerned herself
with the three tones -she would not
have felt limited
Til
since materials
are without feeling,
any limitation.
It was all in her

mind

whereas it belonged

materials

by not being

nothing;

something

materials

characteristic

in the
It became something

it would have been

nothing by being
Should one use the

Now theres a question

of one's time

that ought to get us

somewhere

It is an intel

.
autobiographically

I shall answer it
.

lectual question

slowly

and

Tl?

I remember

as a child

,
especially

loving

all the sounds

even the imprepared

when there was one at

ones.
a time

I liked them
.

A ve-nger exercise
full of beauty
gradually liked

.
all the intervals

I realize
that I be-gan liking the octave
major and minor
thirds.
I liked these thirds
least
Grieg,
I became passionately

Later on I

As I look back
;
Perhaps,
.
fond

I accepted the
of all the intervals,

Through the music of

of the fth

1v

Or perhaps you could

call it
for the fth did not make me
vote my life to

puppy-dog love
want to write music:

playing the works of Grieg

When later I heard

to water, to all the

I took, like a duck

seconds,

for one hand was

didnt like the sound

Bach
was the
.
as I
really liked the
liked Brahms

. modern intervals:

the tritone,
and the fourth
I liked Bach too
about this time
of the thirds and sixths.
way
many things
keep on
remembering,
thirds,
and this explains
.

,
it made me want to de

modern music,
the sevenths,
.
,

the
but I

What I admired in
went together
I see that I never
why I never really

Til
LECTURE DH HCITHIHC-iqI"l I5

Modern music
fascinated me
with all its modern
intervals:
e
sevenths,
the seconds,
the tritone,
and the fourth
an
always,
every now and then,
there was a fth,
and that pleased me
.
Sometimes there were single tones,
not intervals at
all,
and that was a de
light.
There were so many 1
tervals in modern music that it fascinated
me rather than that I loved it, and being
fascinated by it I
decided
to write it.
V-lriting it at
rst
is ditcult:
that is,
putting the mind on it
takes the ear off it
.
However,
doing it alone,
I was free to hear
that a high sound
is diiferent
from a
low sound even when both are called by the
working alone
,

same letter.
I began to feel

'
Studying with a
meaning;
in their progressions
.
I worked at it
feeling for it
gressions called

After several years of

lonely.

nr

teacher,
they are not just
a sound

I learned that the

intervals
sounds
but they imply
not actually present to the ear

Tonality.
.
:
deceptive cadences.

I never liked tonality

Studied it.
for instance:
The idea is this:

as to imply
the
fool everyone by not
fooled
.

presence
of a tone not actually
landing on it
land somewhere else.
?
Not the ear
The whole question is very intellectual

However

modern music

with all its modern

have them

intervals
,

have

.
But I never had any
there are some

progress in such a way

present;
then
What is being .
but the mind

still fascinated me
ll-F

void having

progressions that would

not actually present

did

not

to the ear
appeal to me

that the separation of

mind and ear

that a clean slate

not only contemporary ,

.
directly

They had not been

Eut in order to
so that one had to a-

make one think of

sounds that were

Avoiding

.
had spoiled
was necessary.
but avantgarde."
intellecto.alized;

and didnit have to go through any abstraction

llt':_.~"5lLEl'iCE

.
the mind had xed it

I began to see
the sounds
This made me
I used nomes
the ear could hear them
about them

I found that I

liked intervals.

I liked noi.ses

liked noises

even more than I

just as much as I had

liked single sounds

ll?

Noises, too
,

had been dis-criminated against

having been trained

to be sentimental,
on the side of the
underdog
I got police
permission
to play
I ever found
was that produced by
pickup arm
of a phonograph and then
really shocking,
half sentimentslly
only
to be no truth,

and being American,

I fought
for
.
sirens.
means of a coil of wire
amplied.

noises. I liked being

The most amazing noise
attached to the
It was shocking,

and thunderous
.
Half intellectually
and
, when the war came along,
I decided to use
quiet sounds
.
There seemed to me
no good,
in anything big
in society.
Til

But quiet sounds

love
,

were like loneliness

.
independent

or friendship
values,

Life, Time and

I still feel this way
:
-
intellectualisation
though they are
not worn out
new sounds.
And if one

Coca~Cola
,
but
I begin to hear
the ones I had thought
I begin to hear
not worn out
.
Thinking
had
stops thinking about

.
something else is
worn out,
the old soimds
.
They are just as
worn them out
them,

,
or
Permanent, I thought
at least from
I must say
happening
the old soimds
worn out by
,
as
Ubyiously, they are
audible
as the
.
suddenly they are

Til

esh
you will become a
worn out

and new.
ghost
wore them out

If you think
."
.

you are a ghost

Thinking the sounds
So you see

this question

where we were:

nowhere

brings us back

if you like

where we are
I have a story:

or,
.
There was once a man

LECTURE

UH

HUTHIHGIIIT

standing on a high elevation. A company of several men who happened to be walking on the road
noticed from the distance the man standing on the high place and talked among themselves about
this man. ne of them said: He must have lost his favorite animal. Another man said

No, it must be his friend whom he is looking for. A third one said:

He is just enjoying the cool air up there. The three could not
Tl?
later?) went on until

cnssion
place where the man

{Shall we have one

was

asked:

Cl, friend

lost your pet animal

.
E
either
the fresh breeze
I am not
,
are you

?
No, sir,
The second man asked :
Have you not
No, sir
,
I have
.
The third man asked:
up there?
No, sir
.
~
standing up there
for

questions

.
standing up there

if you say no
T

agree

and the dis-

they reached the high

One of the three

,

have you not

I have not lost any

lost your friend
not lost my friend
Are you not enjoying
,
What, then
,
to all our

The man on high said

Ill

I just stand

I'll

If there are

no questions,

there are no answers

If there are questions

,
nal answer

then, of course,
makes the

there are answers

questions
up until then,

,
whereas the questions,
than the answers
.
bussy
how he wrote
I take all the tones
there are,
use all the others
.
When I was yolmg,
people told me:
.
Now Im fty
.

music.

leave out the ones I

Satie said
Youll see when
Pve seen notliirig
ill

Here we are now

of the fourth large part
More and more
nowhere.
,
llB,r'5ll.EHCE

Slowly
we are getting

but the

seem absurd
seem more intelligent
Somebody asked
DeHe said:
dont want,
and
:
youre fty years old
.

TIP

at the beginning
of this talk.
I have the feeling
that we are getting
,

as the talk goes on

nowhere

and that is a pleasure

.
only irritating
,

It is not irritating
to be where one is
to think one would like
to be somewhere else.
a little bit after the
beginning

fourth large part

.
Here we are now

It is
of the

More and more

of this talk
we have the feeling

that I am getting

nowhere

Slowly

as the talk goes on

'

TIP

slowly
we are getting
which will continue

it is not a pleasure

pleasure
,

if one is irritated
it is a pleasure
it is not irritating
and slowly
we were nowhere

we are having

of being

slowly

is sleepy

,
nowhere.

.we have the feeling

That is a pleasure

If we are irritated
Nothing is not

,
,

but suddenly
and then more and more
(and then more and more
Originally
and now, again

1.
;
the pleasure

nowhere.

If anybody

let him go to sleep

Til

Here we are now

third unit '
of the fourth large part
More and more
nowhere.
_
Slowly

at the beginning
of the
of this talk.
I have the feeling
that we are getting
,
as the talk goes on

nowhere

only irritating
,

we are getting
It is not irritating

to think one would like

a little hit after the

fourth large part

and that is a pleasure

to be where one is

to be somewhere else.
beginning

It is

Here we are now

of the third unit

of this talk
we have the feeling

More and more

that I am getting

nowhere

as the talk goes on

Slowly

of the

Til
,

slowly
we are getting

,
nowhere.
.

we have the feeling

That is a pleasure
LECTURE DH

HDTHIHGIIIQ

pleasure
I

of being
is sleepy

which will continue

it is not a pleasure
if one is irritated

it is a pleasure
it is not irritating
and slowly
we were nowhere
we are having
slowly
,

,
,
).
;
the pleasure
nowhere.
let him go to sleep

If we are irritated
Nothing is not
a
but suddenly
and then more and more
(and then more and more
Clriginally
and now, again
If anybody
.

TIP
Here we are now
fth unit
of the fourth large part

More and more

nowhere.
1'
1|

only irritating
fourth large part

at the begimiing
of the
of this talk.
I have the feeling
' that we are getting

Slowly
,
as the talk goes on
we are getting
nowhere
and that is a pleasure
It is not irritating
to he where one is
It is
to think one would like
to be somewhere else. Here we are now
a little bit after the
beginning
of the fth unit
of the
of this talk
.
More and more
we have the feeling
that I am getting
nowhere
.
,
as the talk goes on
Slowly
ill

pleasure
i

of being

is sleepy
IEDISILEHCE

slowly
we are getting
which will continue
it is not a pleasure
if one is irritated
it is a pleasure
it is not irritating
and slowly

we were nowhere
we are having .
slowly
,

,
nowhere.

we have the feeling

That is a pleasure

If we are irritated
Nothing is not

,
,

but suddenly
and then more and more
(and then more and more
Originally

).

;
the pleasure
nowhere.
let him go to sleep
TIP

and now, again

If anybody
.

Here we are now

at the middle
of this talk.

of the fourth large part

More and more

I have the feeling

nowhere.

Slowly

we are getting

nowhere

.
only irritating
,

that we are getting

as the talk goes on

and that is a pleasure

It is not irritating
to be where one is
to think one would like
to be somewhere else.
a little bit after the
middle

fourth large part

.
Here we are now

It is
of the

of this talk
More and more

we have the feeling

that I am getting
Slowly

nowhere
,

.
as the talk goes on

Til

slowly
we are getting
which will continue

pleasure
,

,
nowhere.

we have the feeling

That is a pleasure

If we are irritated

,
,

but suddenly
and then more and more
{and then more and more

it is not a pleasure

if one is irritated
it is a pleasure
it is not irritating
and slowly

we were nowhere
,
of being

we are having
slowly

is sleepy

Nothing is not

}.

Originally

and now, again

the pleasure
nowhere.

If anybody

let him go to sleep

Til

Here we are now

ninth unit
of the fourth large part
Ivlore and more

at the beginning
of the
of this talk.
I have the feeling
that we are getting

nowhere.

as the talk goes on

nowhere

and that is a pleasure

,
.
only irritating
,

Slowly
we are getting
It is not irritating
to think one would like
a little bit after the

fourth large part

to be where one is

to be somewhere else.
beginning

of the ninth unit

of this talk

More and more

It is

Here we are now

of the

we have the feeling

LECTURE Clhl HDTHIHGIIII

that I am getting
Slowly

nowhere

as the talk goes on

Tll

slowly

we have the feeling

we are getting

nowhere.
.

That is a pleasure
If we are irritated

which will continue

it is not a pleasure
if one is irritated
it is a pleasure

,
pleasure
,

it is not irritating
and slowly

we were nowhere
,
of being
is sleepy

we are having
slowly
,

Nothing is not
,
,

but suddenly
and then more and more
[and then more and more
Originally
and now, again

).
;
the pleasure
nowhere.
let him go to sleep

If anybody
.

TIP

Here we are now

eleventh Luiit
More and more

nowhere.

at the beginning of the fourth large part

Slowly

,
.

we are getting
It is not irritating

only irritating
,
fourth large part
.

_ to think one would like

a little bit after the
More and more
that I am getting

Slowly

of the

of this talk.
I have the feeling
that we are getting
,
as the talk goes on
nowhere
to be where one is
to be somewhere else.

and that is a pleasure

.
It is
Here we are now

beginning
of the eleventh unit
of this talk
.
we have the feeling
nowhere
.
,

of the

as the talk goes on

TIP

,
pleasure
,

slowly
we are getting
which will continue
iit is not a pleasure
if one is irritated
it is a pleasure
it is not irritating
1.

TIIIEILEHCE

-L

,
nowhere.

we have the feeling

That is a pleasure

If we are irritated

Nothing is not
but suddenly

and then more and more

{and then more and more

and slowly
we were nowhere

}.
;

Originally
and now, again

we are having

the pleasure

of being

slowly

nowhere.

If anybody

is sleepy

let him go to sleep

Here we are now

teenth unit
More and more
nowhere.
,
.
only irritating
,
fourth large part

at the begimiing of the thirof the fourth large part

of this talk.
I have the feeling
that we are getting
Slowly
,
as the talk goes on
we are getting
nowhere
and that is a pleamre
It is not irritating
to he where one is
.
It is
to think one would like
to be somewhere else.
Here we are now
a little bit after the

beginning of the
of this talk

thirteenth unit
.

of the

More and more

we have the feeling

that I am getting
Slowly

nowhere
,

.
as the talk goes on

TIZF
,
nowhere.
.

we have the feeling

That is a pleasure
If we are irritated

slowly
we are getting
which will continue

,
pleasure

it is not a pleasure
if one is irritated

it is a pleasure
it is not irritating
and slowly

,
of being

we are having
slowly

is sleepy

Nothing is not
but suddenly

,
,
_

and now, again

the pleasure
nowhere.

If anybody

let him go to sleep

Til

and then more and more

{and then more and more
Originally

).

we were nowhere

lll

LECTURE OH HOTHll'lG,"123

Tl?

TTJF

That is nished
Read me that part

now.

It was a pleasure

And now
,
again
where I disinherit everybody
The twelvetone

method is a control
note. _
There is not enough
like
anyone may
,
E

There is too much

of nothing in it
a bridge from nowhere
go on it

row
of each
there there
.
to

corn or wheat
.
I thought there were eightyeight tones
You can quarter them too

.
this is a pleasure.
."
is a method;
single
.
A structure is
nowhere
noises or tones

I2-=l_r5ll.El"|lCE

,
Or can we y from here

and

Does it matter which

.

TEF

If it were feet
'2

would it be a twotone row

to where

I have nothing

against the

but it is a
method,
We really do need a structure
we are nowhere
.
uses the twelvetone
row
love it.
I love it

not a structure

I love it
.

{My own music does that

And it seems to me
shakuhachi music

to Japanese

twelvetone row;

Much of the music I

so we can see
love

but that is not why I

for no reason
for suddenly
quickly for me
I could

I am nowhere

-1
listen forever
or the Navajo

TIIF

Yeibitchai
stand

near Richard Lippolds

any length of time

Chinese brorrses

1.
I possess

which others
the need to possess
nothing _
Record collections
that is not music

Or I could sit or
Full Moon
how I love them

mq

But those beauties

tend to stir up
and I know

have made,

I
I-

Tl?

The phonograph

is a thing,

.
A thing leads to other things,
leads to nothing
.
T
AHFUHB joining
TB lifl
records

any piece of music

111-El even

not a musical
whereas a

instrument
musical instrument

Would you like to join a society called

[Just so no one would
think we were
becomes president
automatically
youve destroyed
you must show
or, in the case of
tape,
To imagine you
is to miss
There is no point
or the point
3 1:3-11g-pl,g_1,ri11g
record

Oapitalists Inc.
Communists.)
at least one hundred
one sound mirror
own
the whole point
is nothing;
is a thing.

Til
LECTURE ON HOTHIHGIIIE

it

A lady

from Terras

said:

I live in Texas

We have no music

music in Teaas
in Teras.

in Texas.
is because
Remove the records from Teaas
and someone
Everybody
which is

it is a process
and when you sing
you are

The reason theyve no

they have recordings

will learn to sing

has a song
no

song at all :

of singing
,
where you are

,
.

All I know about method is that when I am not working I sometimes

think I know something, but when I am working, it is quite clear that I know nothing.
TllllF'

Aernole lo LECTURE ON NOTHING

In keeping with the th-ought expressed aboue that a discussion ts nothing more
than an en-tertainrnent, I prepared sir answers for the rst sir questions asked,
regardless of what they were. In I949 or 5[l, when the lecture was rst
deltuered 1at the r-lrtists Club as described in the Foreword), there were sir
questions. In I960, howeoer, when the speech was deltuered for the second
ttrne, the audience got the point after two questions and, not wishing to he
entertained, refrained from aslcing anytlitn-g more.
The answers are:

IIEISILEHCE

l.

That is a oery good question. I should not want to spoil it with an

answer.

2.

My head wants to ache.

3.

Had you heard Marya Fround last April in Palermo singing Arnold
Schoenl:-ergs Pierrot Lunaire, I doubt whether you would asl: that
question.

4.

According to the Farmers Alrnan-ac this is False Spring.

5.

Please repeat the question . . .

And again . . .
And again . . .

ti.

I lraoe no more answers.