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tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
DIY - Replacing timing chains,
DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6
4:36 PM 2-28-2004
I had some free time and all the necessary pics, so I put this little DIY together. Hope it's useful to someone.
REPLACING TIMING CHAINS, TENSIONERS AND GUIDES ON A MKIV 12v VR6
The following DIY outlines the procedure for replacing timing chain parts on a MKIV 12v VR6 engine.
NOTE: If you are using this DIY to reinstall an upper chain and time the engine after a head rebuild or headgasket
replacement (i.e., the head came off, but everything else was left in place), make sure to read the section
pertinent to this topic in the DIY UPDATES at the end of the DIY!!!
Since timing chains are considered by VW to be a "lifetime" item, there is no recommended mileage for the replacement (or
even inspection) of timing chain parts. However, while timing chains should realistically out last the rest of the car, the design
of the guides and tensioners used to keep the chains tight on a 12v VR6 is inadequate IMO. It is very common for guides and
tensioners to fail (especially in older VR6 motors) as mileage approaches or passes 100k miles. Unfortunately, failed guides or
tensioners may cause a chain to jump a tooth or more on a sprocket or may even cause a chain to snap. If either were to
happen, serious damage to the engine would result as valves slam into pistons at high speed.
While there is no definitive indication that timing chain parts should be inspected and/or replaced, the most common sign of
trouble is a rattling sound from the driver's side of the engine that occurs between 1000 and 1200 RPMs. This sound has been
described most often as "marbles in a can" or like a sewing machine. Go to this thread to hear a sound clip of the timing chain
noise that was present in my car, and eventually led to the writing of this DIY - Timing Chain Noise Thread. Any noise similar
to the one in the clip in this thread should be considered suspect. When the timing chain parts are in good working order, the
chains are under considerable tension and NOTHING should be loose enough to rattle. If you hear a rattling noise, and it's
coming from one or more of the timing chain parts, it most likely indicates that these parts are either loose or broken and
should be repaired ... or else!
The timing chain setup on a VR6 consists of an upper and lower chain. The upper chain connects the camshaft sprockets to an
intermediate shaft sprocket (outer sprocket) and the lower chain connects a second intermediate shaft sprocket (inner
sprocket) to the crankshaft sprocket. The camshaft sprockets have 27 teeth, the crankshaft sprocket has 24 teeth and the
inner and outer intermediate shaft sprockets have 32 and 18 teeth, respectively. The ratio between the camshaft and outer
intermediate sprockets is 3:2 (or 27:18) and the ratio of the inner intermediate shaft and crankshaft sprockets is 4:3 (or
32:24). This yields a ratio between the camshaft and crankshaft sprockets of 2:1 - i.e., the crankshaft rotates twice for every
one rotation of the camshaft.
Each timing chain has a guide rail (curved on the upper chain, straight on the lower chain) and tensioner rail to keep them
tight. The lower tensioner rail is a one-piece, spring-driven unit, while the upper tensioner is a two-piece design consisting of a
tensioner rail and a separate tensioner bolt.
There are actually two versions of the upper timing chain setup. The early version used a double-row chain, a two-piece
tensioner rail (phenolic plate(?) riveted to a metal backing) and a tensioner bolt that relies solely on oil pressure to apply force
to the tensioner rail (the bolt has a bleed hole in the end to help regulate the amount of force applied). Because of an
unusually high rate of wear of the upper tensioner rail (many are completely worn through the phenolic to the metal backing
plate by 100k miles), the upper chain parts were replaced during the '97 model year with an "improved" setup consisting of a
single-row chain, a single-piece, dense polymer tensioner rail and a tensioner bolt that uses both spring tension and oil
pressure to apply force to the tensioner rail (spring tension extends the bolt to a minimum length, around 18mm, and then oil
pressure extends the bolt to it's final position - this tensioner bolt does not have a bleed hole to regulate oil pressure).
According to the ETKA CD, the switchover point between the older and newer upper chains setups is determined by VIN and is
as follows:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (1 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]
old setup - AAA engine #217000 and before
new setup - AAA engine #217001 and after
The newer setup lasts considerably longer. When I replaced my timing chain parts at nearly 150k miles, the upper tensioner
rail had grooves in it from the chain that were only a fraction of a mm deep. IMO, the rail would have easily last to 500k to 1M
(million) miles based on how slowly it was wearing.
The lower chain parts are the same on all 12v VR6s - AFAIK, no changes to them have been made during the production of
this engine.
The procedure below was based on a '99.5 MKIV Jetta GLS 12v VR6, which has the newer-style upper timing chain parts.
While the older and newer upper parts are slightly different in both form and function, the procedure for replacing them is the
same on all 12v VR6s. Therefore, the procedure below should be generally valid for any vehicle with a 12v VR6 engine. Note:
Torque specs given in this DIY are from the MKIV Bentley manual - these torque values may be slightly different on earlier
model 12v VR6 engines.
The procedure assumes that the transmission, clutch, flywheel, upper intake manifold and other small parts (coilpack, TB,
airbox ...) have been removed from the car and that other steps necessary to remove these have also been performed (front
end of car raised, battery disconnected, etc). The removal of these parts on a MKIV VR6 will be covered in detail in a separate
DIY - a link to this DIY will be posted here when it is finished.
NOTE: If you are only replacing the upper tensioner bolt and/or upper guide rail, you do not need to remove the
transmission, clutch, flywheel, etc. You can replace this part by only removing the upper intake manifold (and
other associated parts) and then following steps 1 through 20 below. To replace the upper tensioner bolt, you do
not need to remove anything. Simply follow steps 10, 48 and 52 to remove and install the bolt.
Please do the procedure at your own risk and be ready to make small adjustments while doing them. Also, please be
observant while removing parts so that they go back together correctly. The procedure is fairly involved and extreme care
should be taken while performing it. SEVERE engine damage WILL result if it is not performed correctly. Depending on how
mechanically inclined you are, it should take somewhere between 2 and 8 hours to perform.
The tools needed to perform the procedures are:

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10mm, 13mm, 15mm and 27mm sockets or wrenches

5mm and 6mm hex sockets or wrenches
spark plug socket
large flathead screwdriver
torque wrench(es) valid for the range of 89 in-lbs to 74 ft-lbs.
VW camshaft locking tool (#3268) or 1/8" metal or dense plastic plate
RTV sealant (ultra-grey, sensor-safe)
pieces of wood for removing and installing rear main oil seal
container and oil
The VW part #s for the parts replaced in this DIY are:

*
*
*
*
021
071
021
021
109
109
109
109
503
513
509
507
D - upper timing chain

- upper timing chain guide rail
E - upper timing chain tensioner rail
B - upper timing chain tensioner bolt (comes with copper crush washer N 013 827 1)
* 021 109 465 B - lower timing chain

* 021 109 469 - lower timing chain guide rail
* 021 109 467 - lower timing chain tensioner rail
* 068 198 171 - rear main oil seal
Note: The above part #s for the upper timing chain parts are for the newer style parts. For the part #s valid for engines with
the older style upper timing chain parts, refer to James' 12V VR6 headgasket/timing chain/cooling system parts list.
All of the above parts were purchased from http://www.vwparts.com and http://www.germanautoparts.com. Some parts were
cheaper from one source while others were cheaper from the other. All parts that I received from these two vendors were
OEM.
Special thanks go to James (James 93SLC - luckily he had done this procedure before on his Corrado), Shashi (DJSBK) and Eric (BCDS2003T), for their help with the procedure. I'd also like to thank James and Beth for hosting
the pics in this DIY on their website.
Let me know if you have any questions.
As always, do this procedure at your own risk. I am not responsible for any mistakes in the below procedure or
those that you make while performing it.
Modified by VgRt6 at 4:39 PM 2-28-2004

Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -
(168,500 miles and counting!
(RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though
)
Wife: 2004 Passat Variant GLS 1.8t
* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6
4:37 PM 2-28-2004
REMOVING OLD TIMING CHAIN PARTS

1. Unclip the fuel lines (yellow arrows) and rear knock sensor wire (red arrows) from the top of the valve cover, as shown in
the picture below (this may not be necessary on all engines).
2. Loosen and/or remove the ten (10) 10mm bolts/nuts that secure the valve cover. On a MKIV, there are 8 captured bolts
(yellow arrows in picture below) and 2 nuts on posts (red arrows in picture below). I believe that all ten are nuts on posts on
other VR6 engines, but I may be wrong. Once the valve cover is unsecured, pull it up and off of the head, being careful not to
damage the cover gasket (it will be reused).
3. The images below show the two camshafts. On the passenger's end are grooves that are used for timing the engine (yellow
arrows) and on the driver's end are the camshaft sprockets and upper timing chain.
CAUTION: Once the valve cover is off, be careful not to drop any tools or small parts into the engine.
4. Remove all six (6) spark plugs if you haven't already done so.
5. Crank the engine to Cylinder #1 TDC (top dead center) by slowly hand-turning the crankshaft pulley (red arrow in picture
below) clockwise with a 27mm wrench or socket until the little notch on the inner flange of the pulley lines up with the timing
mark on the block (yellow arrows in picture below).
NOTE: When doing gross rotations of the crankshaft, always turn the crankshaft the same direction that it rotates
when the engine is running (clockwise in the picture below). It's OK to rotate it the opposite way for small
adjustments only.
6. The picture below shows a close-up of the notch and timing mark that need to be lined up to set the engine at Cyl. #1 TDC.
7. Once the notch and timing mark are lined up, check the groove on the end of one of the camshafts. The groove should be
above the centerline of the shaft - i.e., there should be more material below the groove (yellow arrow in the picture below)
than above the groove (red arrow in picture below). If the opposite is true, then the camshafts are 180 out of phase. Rotate
the crankshaft one full revolution and line up the notch and timing mark again to set the camshafts for Cyl. #1 TDC
(remember, two rotations of the crankshaft equals one rotation of the camshafts).
8. If everything is lined up properly and the engine is at Cyl. #1 TDC, you should be able to slide the camshaft locking tool
(VW tool #3268) into the grooves. Instead of using the VW tool, I just used two 1/8" thick pieces of Al plate (purchased at
Lowe's) to lock each camshaft individually, as shown by the red arrows in the picture below. You can use pretty much any 1/8"
thick metal or dense plastic plate for this purpose.
NOTE: Since the MKIV VR6 has captured bolts that secure the valve cover, no holes need to be drilled in the
plate(s) for them to slide into place. However, on earlier VR6s, holes will need to be drilled in the plates so that
the plates will fit over the posts that the valve cover is secured to (the VW locking tool already has holes drilled
in the necessary places). Also, if you do not use the VW camshaft locking tool, make sure to secure whatever you
use so that it can not fall into the engine. The VW tool can not fall into the engine, but something smaller may be
able to. I used packing tape attached to the Al plates and wrapped around the fuel lines to keep the plates from
accidentally slipping into the block.
9. If the engine is timed correctly, the camshaft tool(s) (VW or improvised) should slide into the groove easily and should be
exactly parallel to it. The picture below shows that the gaps between the groove and tool on either side of the camshaft should
be equal.
NOTE: Leave the VW or other improvised camshaft locking tool in place in the camshaft grooves until instructed
to remove it. This will keep the camshafts from rotating when the upper chain is removed, maintaining the
correct valve timing.
10. Remove the upper tensioner bolt (yellow arrow in the picture below) from the back edge of the upper timing chain cover
using a 27mm wrench or socket.
WARNING: Do NOT rotate the engine with the upper tensioner bolt removed. Doing so may cause the upper
timing chain to jump a tooth or more and would throw off the engine timing. If you are replacing all of the timing
chain parts, then this is no big deal since you'll be resetting the timing anyway. However, if you are only
replacing the upper tensioner bolt and/or upper guide rail, messing up the timing may result in you having to
remove the transmission, clutch, flywheel and lower timing chain cover in order to access and re-time the
intermediate shaft.
11. The picture below shows the newer style upper tensioner bolt. There should be a copper crush washer (blue arrow)
present to seal the bolt against an oil leak. (Note: Even though the tensioner bolt and crush washer have separate VW part
#s, the parts are one piece on the newer style tensioner.)
12. Remove the bolts that secure the upper timing chain cover. There are eight (8) 5mm hex bolts (yellow arrows in picture
below) that secure the cover to the head and two (2) 6mm hex bolts (red arrows in picture below) that secure the upper and
lower timing chain covers to each other (with part of the headgasket between them - this will be covered in more detail
below).
13. Carefully pry the upper timing chain cover away from the head and lower timing chain cover. Be extra careful not to
damage the part of the headgasket that extends out from beneath the head and between the two chain covers. This is critical
since the headgasket will be reused (unless you are removing the head and will be replacing the entire gasket).
14. With the upper timing chain cover off, you should be able to see most of the upper timing chain parts, as shown in the
picture below. The yellow arrows point to the two camshaft sprockets, which are secured to the camshafts with 15mm bolts.
The blue arrow points to the shutter wheel on the rear sprocket that is used by the camshaft position sensor (this wheel may
be slightly different on earlier model VR6s). The green arrow points to the upper guide rail and the red arrow points to the
upper tensioner rail.
15. The picture below shows a close-up of my original upper guide rail. The yellow shading shows the location of a piece that
broke off and was causing the rattling noise heard in the sound clip in the link above.
16. If you are only replacing the upper guide rail, skip steps 17 through 19 and go directly to step 20. Otherwise, continue on
with the next step (#17).
17. Remove the bolts that secure the lower timing chain cover. There are sixteen (16) 10mm bolts (yellow arrows in picture
below) that secure the cover to the block and three (3) 5mm hex bolts (red arrows in picture below) that secure the lower
timing chain cover to the oil pan. The blue arrows indicate the position of guide pins used to locate the cover when reinstalling
it.
18. Carefully pry the lower timing chain cover away from the block and oil pan. Again, be extra careful not to damage the part
of the headgasket that extends out from beneath the head and between the two chain covers.
19. With the upper timing chain cover off, you should be able to see all timing chain parts, as shown in the picture below. The
yellow arrow points to the part of the headgasket that normally resides between the two timing chain covers, but is now
completely unprotected. Be extra careful not to damage/bend the gasket during the replacement procedure below.
20. Remove the upper guide rail by removing the two (2) 13mm bolts (yellow arrows in picture below) and then sliding the rail
up and off of the lower guide post (red arrow in picture below). You do not need to remove the guide pin. (Note that the guide
pin resides behind the lower chain cover - I suspect that VW used a guide pin instead of a bolt here so that the guide could be
replaced without having to remove the lower cover (and consequently, the tranny, clutch, etc).
NOTE: If you are only replacing the upper guide rail, perform step 29 and the appropriate portion of step 35 to
install the new guide. Once the guide is installed, perform the engine timing check in steps 40 through 43.
Finally, perform steps 48, 49 and 51 through 57 to reassemble everything.
TIP: I recommend that you label bolts as you remove them. Many of the bolts are diameter and length specific to
a location and will not fit in other locations.
21. The picture below shows the notch in the inner intermediate sprocket (red arrow) that should be visible when the
intermediate shaft is timed correctly (MKIV Bentley step #7 and Figure #21 on page 15d-16). Also, the yellow arrow points to
the piece of my upper guide rail that broke off and was rattling in between the block and the inner intermediate sprocket.
22. In order to remove both the upper and lower timing chains, it is necessary to create some slack in the chains. The easiest
way to accomplish this in both chains is to remove the intermediate sprockets. In the picture below, the yellow arrow points to
the inner intermediate sprocket and the red arrow points to the outer intermediate sprocket. To remove the sprockets, remove
the 15mm bolt (blue arrow in picture below)that secures the sprockets to the intermediate shaft. In order to do this, it is
necessary to counterhold the crankshaft to keep it at Cyl. #1 TDC. You can use one of the special VW tools to do this, or you
can just have a friend counter hold the crankshaft pulley with the 27mm wrench or socket and a long breaker bar. The
intermediate shaft bolt is torqued on fairly tight (74 ft-lbs or 100 N-m), so it will take a good amount of force to loosen it. If
the crankshaft accidentally moves slightly while loosening the bolt, turn the crankshaft back to Cyl. #1 TDC BEFORE removing
the intermediate bolt and sprockets. (Note: Leave the camshaft locking tool in place while loosening the intermediate shaft
bolt. As long as the crankshaft does not move significantly, there is no harm in leaving the tool in the camshaft grooves.)
23. Slide the outer intermediate sprocket off of the inner intermediate sprocket and then remove the upper chain from the
camshaft sprockets. (Note that the inner and outer sprockets are keyed so that they will only fit together one way).
24. With the upper chain removed, the upper tensioner rail should fall down through the hole in the exposed headgasket, as
indicated by the red arrow in the picture below. The tensioner rail pivots on a pin, which is indicated by the yellow arrow in the
picture below.
25. To remove the upper tensioner rail, simply slide it off of the pivot pin, as indicated by the yellow arrows in the picture
below. You do not need to remove the pivot pin.
26. Remove the lower tensioner unit by removing the two (2) 5mm hex bolts indicated by the yellow arrows in the picture
below (the tensioner will fully extend when removed if you don't hold the rail and body together or secure it with a U-clip like
the one that comes with a new tensioner).
27. Slide the inner intermediate sprocket off of the intermediate shaft (note that the shaft is also keyed so that the sprocket
only goes on one way) and then remove the lower timing chain from the crankshaft sprocket. Finally, slide the lower guide rail
off its guide pins, which are indicated by the red arrows in the picture above. You do not need to remove the guide pins.
28. All of the timing chain parts that need to be removed should now be removed.
)
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
4:37 PM 2-28-2004
INSTALLING NEW TIMING CHAIN PARTS
29. Clean ALL of the mating surfaces of the timing chain covers, head, block and headgasket of oil and silicone gasket
material. Examples of these areas are indicated by the red shading in the picture below. On a MKIV 12v VR6, there are two
(2) 3mm holes in the headgasket right next to the head/block (yellow arrows in picture below). Remove any gasket material
that is in these holes. Also be sure to clean out any oil from the central upper guide rail bolt hole (green arrow in picture
below). Locking compound is used on this bolt to ensure that it does not back out and catch on the upper timing chain and it is
critical that the bolt hole be clean and dry. Finally, the blue arrow in the picture below points to the oil feed hole for the upper
tensioner bolt. Make sure that this hole is not clogged/blocked with gasket material (it shouldn't be, but check anyway)!
30. Before installing new timing chain parts, double check that the crankshaft is timed correctly. If the crankshaft is timed
correctly, a ground tooth on the crankshaft sprocket (yellow arrow in the picture below) should line up exactly with the split in
the main crankshaft bearing cap (red arrow in the picture below). This should be the case when the engine is at Cyl. #1 TDC
(i.e., the notch on the crankshaft pulley and the timing mark on the block are lined up as shown in steps 5 and 6).
31. The picture below shows a close-up of the ground tooth (yellow arrow) and bearing split (red arrow). Note the difference
between the ground tooth and the "normal" teeth adjacent to it (blue arrows).
32. Slide the inner intermediate sprocket onto the intermediate shaft and rotate the sprocket until the pointer in one of the
sprocket holes (yellow arrow in the picture below) lines up exactly with the vertical mark on the intermediate shaft thrust
washer behind the sprocket (red arrow in the picture below). The intermediate shaft is timed correctly when the pointer and
washer mark are lined up. Note: The picture below was taken out of sequence, and as a result, shows the lower chain, outer
intermediate sprocket, intermediate sprocket bolt, lower guide rail and upper guide rail already installed. They should not be
installed at this point in the procedure. Please disregard this discrepancy between the text and photo.
33. Slide the new lower guide rail onto its guide posts (green arrows in picture below).
34. Install the new lower timing chain onto the crankshaft sprocket, slide it into the lower guide rail and then over the inner
intermediate sprocket (blue arrow in picture above). Make sure that all of the slack is on the rear side of the chain and that
the crankshaft and intermediate shaft timing marks are still lined up correctly. Next, install the new lower tensioner unit and
torque the two tensioner bolts (red arrows in picture above) to 89 in-lbs (10 N-m). Finally, check again that the timing marks
are lined up correctly and then remove the u-clip used to keep the tensioner fully compressed during installation (yellow arrow
in picture). This will apply tension to the lower chain. NOTE: Be very careful not to accidentally pull the inner intermediate
sprocket off of the intermediate shaft after the u-clip is removed or the lower tensioner will fully extend.
TIP: If your lower tensioner is fully extended (as shown in the picture below), it needs to be fully compressed, or
reset, before installation. To do this, use a small screwdriver or similar tool to slide the ratcheting mechanism in
the hole in the tensioner body (red arrow in picture below) toward the pivot point between the body and
tensioner rail and then push in on the rail (yellow arrows in picture below). Remember, if you let go of the rail it
will fully extend again. Either hold it in place with a U-clip or by hand until it is installed.
35. Slide the new upper tensioner rail onto its pivot pin (yellow arrow in picture below) and rotate the rail clockwise through
the hole in the headgasket. Use a piece of tape or something similar to temporarily hold the rail in the upright position
(remove the tape after the upper timing chain and outer intermediate sprocket have been installed). Next, install the new
upper guide rail by sliding it onto it's guide pin (green arrow in picture below) and then installing the two (2) 13mm bolts (red
and blue arrows in picture below). Use Loctite (blue - med. strength) on the central, shorter bolt (red arrow) and torque both
bolts to 15 ft-lbs (20 N-m).
36. Install the upper timing chain across the two camshaft sprockets (the chain should be tight between them) and then down
between the upper guide rail and tensioner rail and through the hole in the headgasket, as shown in the picture above. Next,
install the outer intermediate sprocket (with the upper chain wrapped around it), making sure that the chain is still tight
between the two camshaft sprockets, is tight against the upper guide rail and ALL slack is on the rear side of the chain
adjacent to the tensioner rail. Remember that the sprocket is keyed and can only match up with the inner intermediate
sprocket one way - it may be difficult to mate the inner and outer sprockets - do NOT move the lower chain assembly to get
the sprockets to match up. Finally, check again to make sure that the timing marks are all lined up. If they are, install the
intermediate shaft bolt (white arrow in picture above) and torque to 74 ft-lbs (100 N-m) - remember to counterhold the
crankshaft again when doing this, as was done in step 22.
37. Remove the u-clip from the lower tensioner unit if you haven't already done so.
38. Check again to make sure that the timing marks are lined up (you can never do it enough times!
39. The new timing parts should now be correctly installed, as shown in the picture below.
).
40. Before sealing everything back up, it is a good idea to test out the timing of the engine. To do this, the upper timing chain
cover and upper tensioner bolt need to be temporarily reinstalled. Reinstall the upper timing chain cover (be careful not to
damage the headgasket) and secure it to the head with four (4) or more of the 5mm hex bolts (it's not necessary to use all
eight of them). Next, install the upper tensioner bolt - thread it in fully and tighten it hand-tight (there's no need to torque it
to full spec for this test).
41. Remove the cam locking tool (or plate(s)) from the grooves in the camshafts.
42. Using the 27mm wrench or socket, rotate the crankshaft clockwise two (2) full rotations and then line up the timing marks
on the crankshaft pulley (notch on pulley and mark on block - see steps 5 and 6). This will cause the camshafts to rotate one
(1) full rotation. If the engine is timed correctly, you should be able to slide the cam locking tool (or plate(s)) back into the
grooves in the camshafts. If this does occur, then you've timed the engine properly and you can seal things up.
Congratulations.
If this does not occur, then there is a problem with the engine timing. You'll either need to figure out
what is wrong and fix it, or remove everything and start again from scratch.
If you've been checking the timing marks
throughout the installation procedure as suggested, the engine will most likely be timed correctly.
43. Remove the upper tensioner bolt and upper timing chain cover.
44. Since the lower timing cover is off, it is a good idea to replace the rear main oil seal, especially if the engine has significant
mileage on it or you noticed some oil leakage when the transmission was removed. If you are not going to replace the rear
main seal, go directly to step 48.
45. To remove the old rear main seal (yellow arrow in picture below), support the lower timing chain cover with a few pieces
of wood with the inside surface of the cover facing up, as shown below. Using a screwdriver or other similar tool and a
hammer, carefully pound the old seal out of the cover. The old seal may be in there tight, so you may have to pound pretty
hard to get it out. Be careful not to mar the mating surface of the timing cover or the new seal may not seal properly when
installed. Just take you time and pay attention and it should come out without any problems.
46. To install the new rear main seal, flip the timing chain cover over, apply some oil to the mating surfaces of the cover and
seal and then carefully pound the seal into the cover using a hammer and a wide board, as shown in the picture below. Move
the board around the perimeter of the seal while pounding to make sure that the seal goes in straight. The seal is installed
fully when the outer edge of the seal lines up with the outer edge of the cover (at this point the board will no longer pound the
seal in any further, so it's pretty much idiot-proof).
47. The picture below shows the new seal installed in the lower timing chain cover. Also shown is a plastic insert (yellow
arrow) that is provided with the seal to make the installation of the seal around the crankshaft flange easier when installing
the lower timing chain cover. (We tried to use this piece when installing the cover, but it actually got in the way and kept
popping out of the seal prematurely. We eventually gave up and just installed the lower cover without it without any
problems.)
48. Before permanently installing the upper tensioner bolt, it is a good idea to bleed the air from it and fill it up with oil. Fill a
coffee can or other container with about 4 inches of motor oil, as shown in the picture below. Place the tensioner bolt in the
can with the plunger end down and the head end up (so that the feed hole is at the highest point). While submerged, press
down on the bolt in the can to compress the plunger fully. This will force any air out of the tensioner. Release the tensioner
while submerged to fill the tensioner with oil. Repeat this a few times until you're confident there is no more air in the
tensioner. Leave the tensioner bolt in the oil until it's ready to be installed.
NOTE: The above procedure is for the newer style tensioner only. To bleed the older style tensioner, insert a thing
wire into the bleed hole in the end of the plunger to activate the check valve inside and then press down on the
plunger to compress it fully. Some people like to extend the tensioner slightly so that there is some tension on
the upper chain when the engine is started the first time. If you want to do this, submerge the tensioner in oil
and pull out on the plunger. Doing so with the tensioner submerged will ensure that oil and not air fills the
tensioner. Make sure you do not extend the tensioner too far or too much tension may be applied to the upper
tensioner rail, causing premature wear. Use a iterative trial and error process to find the appropriate plunger
length.
49. Apply RTV sealant to the mating surfaces of the timing chain covers. These surface are what contact the red shaded areas
in the picture below (don't forget about on top of the oil pan and on both the top and bottom of the headgasket. Use ultragrey import RTV to seal the timing chain covers since it is O2 sensor-safe. Make sure that the oil feed hole for the upper
tensioner bolt (yellow arrow in picture below) will not be clogged with RTV when the upper cover is installed.
50. Install the lower timing chain cover first. Apply some oil to the edges of the crankshaft flange and to the inner mating
surface of the rear main seal. Carefully position the lower cover, using the guide pins to line it up correctly. As you slide the
cover into place, make sure that the rear main seal is sliding onto the crankshaft flange correctly. Go slowly and make sure it's
done correctly ... the first time. Also, as you slide the lower cover into place, lift up on the headgasket in order to keep it from
scraping all of the RTV off of the top edge of the cover. After the lower cover is in place and you're confident that the rear
main seal is seated correctly and the RTV seal is sufficient, install the nineteen (19) bolts that secure the cover to the block
and oil pan and torque them to 89 in-lbs (10 N-m).
51. Next install the upper timing chain cover. Again be careful to avoid the headgasket scraping the RTV off of the bottom
edge of the cover. It may somewhat difficult to install the upper cover due to engine brackets and the thermostat housing
being in the way. I actually recommend that you practice maneuvering the upper cover into position BEFORE applying any
RTV. This way you won't get RTV all over everything while trying to figure out how to get the upper cover in place. Once the
cover is in place and you're confident that the RTV seal is sufficient, install the ten (10) bolts that secure the cover to the head
and the lower timing chain cover. Torque the eight (8) 5mm hex bolts to 89 in-lbs (10 N-m) and the two (2) 6mm hex bolts to
18 ft-lbs (25 N-m).
52. Remove the upper tensioner bolt from the container of oil, wipe it off and then install it in the rear edge of the upper
timing chain cover. Torque to the bolt to 22 ft-lbs (30 N-m). (Note: The MKIV Bentley gives conflicting values for the
tensioner bolt torque. In multiple places it lists it as 22 ft-lbs (30 N-m), but in one place it lists it at 30 ft-lbs (40 N-m). I'm
not sure which one is actually correct, but either one would probably be OK. I torqued mine to 22 ft-lbs and have not had any
problems.)
53. Remove the cam locking tool (or plate(s)) from the grooves in the end of the camshafts.
54. Reinstall spark plugs and torque to 18 ft-lbs (25 N-m).
55. Reinstall valve cover (make sure the valve cover seal fits correctly) and torque the ten (10) captured bolt or nuts to 89 inlbs (10 N-m).
56. On a MKIV, reattach the fuel lines and rear knock sensor wire to the top of the valve cover.
57. That's it!
)
VgRt6
VWvortex
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99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
4:38 PM 2-28-2004
DIY UPDATES ...
* 2/28/04 - Click here to see pics of the timing chain parts I removed during the DIY alongside new parts
* 8/2/04 - IMPORTANT INFO FOR THOSE REINSTALLING AN UPPER TIMING CHAIN AFTER A HEAD REBUILD OR
HEADGASKET REPLACEMENT
The following information is critical for timing the engine correctly when the upper chain has been removed and the lower
timing chain, timing chain cover and tranny have not been touched. There has been some confusion recently during the
reinstallation of heads and upper timing chains, and I hope this clears it up for everyone.
NOTE: This section does not
apply is you are retiming the engine after replacing and/or reinstalling both timing chains, as described in the main part of the
DIY above.
If possible, before removing the upper timing chain so you can remove the head, set the crank to Cyl. #1 TDC and don't
rotate the engine until the head and upper timing chain have been reinstalled. If this is your situation, then the following
information does not apply to you. Since this situation is not always possible (either the crank was not set to TDC before the
upper chain was removed or the crank was turned with the upper timing chain disconnected), before reinstalling the head
and upper timing chain, you MUST make sure to rotate the crank until Cyl. #1 is at TDC AND and you can see the
notch in the intermediate sprocket, as shown by the red arrow in the picture below.
If you do not do this, there is a strong possibility that when the upper timing chain is reinstalled, it will be one half of a tooth
off relative to the lower timing chain. To make sure that this situation does not arise, turn the crankshaft until Cyl. #1
is at TDC and then check for the notch in the intermediate shaft. If it is not visible, turn the crankshaft another
revolution and check again for the notch. Repeat the process until the crankshaft is at TDC AND you can see the
notch in the intermediate sprocket. You may have to rotate as much as 3+ revolutions (4 would get you back to your
starting place) in order for both to occur simultaneously. The amount of crankshaft revolution necessary will depend on how
far off the crankshaft was from TDC or how much the crankshaft was rotated with the upper timing chain disconnected.
The reason that the above procedure is necessary is due to the fact that the 4 timing sprockets (crank, inner intermediate,
outer intermediate and camshaft (2)) do not have the same number of teeth. As a result, a full rotation of the crank sprocket
does not produce one full rotation in the other sprockets. The impact of this is that setting the crankshaft to Cyl. #1 TDC does
not always simultaneously set the intermediate sprocket to the correct position for the reinstallation of the upper timing chain.
If you want to read a more detailed explanation of why this is a problem, check out the following thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1406495. Here are some posts of mine from that thread for the curious, but lazy
...
"Setting the intermediate shaft to the correct position is a critical part of the timing process and is something that not
everyone who tries to do the job realizes. The position of the intermediate shaft is critical since it has two sprockets on it with
a different number of teeth. If the inner intermediate sprocket is off by one tooth (relative to the crankshaft), then the outer
intermediate shaft is off by a fraction of a tooth. This fraction is what messes up the relationship between the intermediate
shaft and the camshafts. If both sprockets on the intermediate shaft had the same number of teeth, then it's position in the
timing process wouldn't matter. Unfortunately, in order to have the 2:1 crankshaft-to-camshaft rotation ratio and to have
sprockets of reasonable diameters, the VW engineers had to make the two intermediate sprockets different sizes."
_____
"Since the crankshaft has 24 teeth, rotating the crankshaft 360 will cause 24 teeth on the inner intermediate sprocket to
rotate 24 teeth. The inner inter. sprocket has 32 teeth, therefore, the inner intermediate sprocket will rotate 3/4 of a turn or
270. If the inner inter. sprocket rotates 270, then the outer inter. sprocket must also rotate 270. The outer inter. sprocket
has 18 teeth, 270 (or 3/4 of a turn) of which is 13.5 teeth. If the outer inter. sprocket rotates 13.5 teeth, then the camshafts
will rotate 13.5 teeth. This make sense since the camshafts have 27 teeth and two rotations of the crank (720) will cause the
cams to rotate one full rotation, or 27 teeth.
Notice that the camshafts do not rotate by an integer number of teeth when the crankshaft is rotated 360. Instead, it rotated
by something plus 1/2 of a tooth."
_____
"Timing the engine starting with both chains off is actually much easier to do (and to understand) than what blownmk2vr6 is
trying to do (installing the upper chain after taking the head off). When the chains are off, all you have to do is line up the
three marks separately and then put the chains on. If one of the chains is on (most likely the bottom chain), then you also
need to understand the relationship between the sizes of the different sprockets. Since they all have a different number of
teeth, one full rotation of one shaft does not produce one full rotation of another shaft. Take the crankshaft and inner
intermediate sprockets for example (this will help explain what happened to blownmk2vr6). The crank sprocket has 24 teeth
and the inner inter. sprocket has 32 teeth. Because of the 3:4 ratio in the number of teeth, the crankshaft has to be rotated
FOUR times to have both the crankshaft sprocket and inner intermediate shaft sprocket end up in the same configuration as
before starting (a full 96 teeth have to pass - 24*4=96 and 32*3=96). If you only rotate the crankshaft one full rotation, the
inner intermediate sprocket will be 90 off (cams will be 1/2 tooth off). If you rotate it twice, the inner intermediate sprocket
will be 180 off (cams will line up due to both inner and outer intermediate sprockets having an even number of teeth). If you
rotate it three times, the inner intermediate sprocket will again be at 90 off, but in the other direction (cams will be 1/2 tooth
off). After the fourth rotation of the crankshaft, the intermediate will be at 360 and everything will line up (cams will line up).
A similar relationship exists between the camshaft sprockets and the outer intermediate sprocket. Their ratio is 27:18 or 3:2.
Therefore, it requires TWO full rotations of the camshafts to have the camshafts and intermediate shaft end up in the same
configuration as before starting (a full 54 teeth have to pass - 27*2=54 and 18*3=54). If you only rotate the camshafts one
full rotation, then the outer intermediate sprocket will be 180 off. After the second rotation of the camshafts, the outer
intermediate sprocket will be at 360 and everything will line up. This relationship is not as important to understand as the
one between the crankshaft and intermediate shaft since it's unlikely that only the upper chain would be on the engine. It's
very likely to have only the lower chain attached though since headwork and a headgasket job only requires that the upper
chain be removed."
Modified by VgRt6 at 7:26 AM 8-3-2004
)
JettaVR6power
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (VgRt6) 5:14 PM 2-28-2004
Offline
167 posts
Tryon NC
1999 Jetta GLX
(A3)
Nice!
This definitely needs to go in the FAQ section. Three beers for this one!
GIAC v.11 chip
MigAce312
Member
Offline
2366 posts
Atlanta GA
WOW!!! Thats gotta be the holy grail of timing chain write-ups....Awesome job man!
QUE VIVA COLOMBIA HIJUEPUTA!!!

A fellow Yellow Jacket
Bypassed '95 GLX
Jmunk
Member
6:23 PM 2-28-2004
Offline
230 posts
Warren Pa
95, VW, Jetta GLX
VR6
Very nice. I'm not afraid of doing the job like how i was before. How much did you spend in parts and how long did it take you
to do this ?
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
6:27 PM 2-28-2004
Re: (Jmunk)
It took about 4-5 hours to do everything in the DIY. Unfortunetely, the work that is not covered in the DIY to get to the chain
covers (i.e., removing the tranny) takes a lot longer and is more difficult. Removing the tranny has got to be one of the most
difficult things to do on a car!
Here's what I paid for the parts and where I got it from ...
Adirondack Auto Brokers

Upper timing chain - $39.00
Lower timing chain - $29.00
Lower tensioner unit - $39.75
Impex Foreign Auto Parts

Upper guide rail - $13.40
Upper tensioner rail - $8.54
Upper tensioner bolt - $25.50
Lower guide rail - $4.65
Rear main seal - $12.07
The total for all the parts was $171.91 plus shipping (and tax if you live in either NY or MD).
Gary
)
StreetRyda
Member
6:59 PM 2-28-2004
Offline
363 posts
Right over there in
New York
99.5 Bora VR6
do you do this with the motor out of the cars?
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
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5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
7:09 PM 2-28-2004
Re: (StreetRyda)
You can do it with the engine in or out of the car. It should be obvious from the pics that I did it with the engine in the car.
Gary
)
Bimmer Beater
Member
7:34 PM 2-28-2004
Re: (VgRt6)
Offline
469 posts
Rota Spain/ St.
Augustine, FL
WOW!!! What an AWESOME thread!!! Thanx for the info and great pix. I've gotta ask, though, as I'm not too computer saavy,
(Past)2001 Jetta
how'd you the arrows, see-through highlights, and how do you insert a picture in your signature for threads? Thanks.
VR6, SORELY
missed (Current)
R32, Deep Blue
Pearl/leather.
Wanna Lick, PSYCH .:R32 Deep Blue Pearl w/ Black Leather. YUMMY.....(ME) '03 Flex silver Beetle Turbo S.....also pretty damn yummy! (Wife)
VgRt6
VWvortex
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Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
7:58 PM 2-28-2004
Re: (Bimmer Beater)

Thanks.
IM sent.
Gary
)
Dansk Ventoe
Member
Re: (VgRt6)
9:22 PM 2-28-2004
Offline
2114 posts
Danmark/WA
Thank you.
-Joe
FS: Stock 12v cams, TT chip 259N...
James 93SLC
Member
Offline
857 posts
Northeast OH
93 Corrado SLC
Quote, originally posted by VgRt6
Special thanks go to James (James 93SLC - luckily he had done this procedure before on his Corrado),
Shashi (DJ-SBK) and Eric (BCDS2003T), for their help with the procedure.
Aww shucks
Nice writeup Gary.
You left out the step about cursing the tranny mount bracket bolts
Highlight of my winter
James
There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
93 SLC ...Turn2, TT Exhaust, Koni, TT Chip
The 12V VR6 headgasket/timing chain/cooling system parts list
Corrado Hood Release parts
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (James
93SLC)
Offline
Quote, originally posted by James 93SLC
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Aww shucks
9:54 PM 2-28-2004
You say that now, but wait until the pics of you wearing the VR6 timing chain bling bling get posted!

Nice writeup Gary.
You left out the step about cursing the tranny mount bracket bolts
I'm saving all of the ranting for the tranny/clutch DIY. Stupid 3" of Loctite ... on one bolt!!!

Highlight of my winter
Mine too.
Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 -
Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -
)
SilberArrow6
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (James
93SLC)
9:59 PM 2-28-2004
Offline
252 posts
Awesome Gary! When the time comes...
wilmington NC
1999.5 VW Jetta IV
Congrats on your anniversary btw! Mine's June 6th.
GLS VR6
OhTwoEmm Inside
02J and hardware Sold
Wolfsburg Edition Shifter Knob Sold
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
(SilberArrow6)
10:05 PM 2-28-2004
Quote, originally posted by SilberArrow6

Awesome Gary! When the time comes...
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Congrats on your anniversary btw! Mine's June 6th.
Thanks. Congrats to you too.
)
mhjett
Member
Offline
1502 posts
Grand Rapids MI
1995 Jetta GLX
VR6 1987 GLI
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (VgRt6) 1:15 AM 2-29-2004
Wow, what a post
I can't imagine the work you put into this post, on top of the actual work on your car.
Question for you, I don't think I have any timing chain noise to speak of on my 95 VR. I've heard before and read in your post
here that you can do the upper guide rail without removing the tranny, etc. I've thought about doing this just as a
preventative thing, and also to see how my guides/rails are wearing. Would this be worth it/a good idea? It's the old-style
tensioner rail that was prone to fail, not the guide, is there a difference in the old guide?
Thanks
1995 Jetta GLX

http://www.michiganvw.org
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (mhjett) 1:24 AM 2-29-2004
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
The older style upper tensioner rail is definitely the part that is most prone to failure. However, the design of the upper guide
rail is poor as well and can also fail. On newer setups where the upper tensioner rail is a lot more robust than the old design,
IMO it's the upper guide rail that most likely to fail. The design of the upper guide rail is not very good IMO and unfortunately
it hasn't ever been changed - the old and new versions are exactly the same. VW did change the part# recently from 021 109
513 to 071 109 513, but as far as I know they look exactly the same.
Check out these pics of my old timing chain parts. My old upper guide rail is an absolute mess! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264688
That being said, it's up to you as to whether you should check/change the upper guide rail. Replacing it can't hurt, but if it's
not making any noise, then why bother? If you have some extra time and feel like you need to take something apart, then go
for it. Otherwise, do nothing and consider yourself lucky that you have no timing chain noise ... yet.
Gary
)
SleepyTT
Member
Offline
3604 posts
Rockaway, NJ
1995 VW Passat
GLX
Good Job, VgRt6....

Very good guide for when i change my Timing chains in March when its 60 outside.
95 VW Passat GLX
94 VW Jetta *project car*
Longwood Motorsports - Rt23 Stockholm, NJ
StreetRyda
Member
8:47 AM 2-29-2004
Offline
363 posts
Right over there in
New York
99.5 Bora VR6
was anything remove to make it EZ to get around
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Re: (StreetRyda)
9:25 AM 2-29-2004
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Quote, originally posted by StreetRyda
was anything remove to make it EZ to get around
Once the transmission and the parts near it are out of the car (necessary to get to the lower timing chain cover), there is
plenty of room to do the job.
Gary
)
Benbuilt4u
Member
Re: (VgRt6)
10:08 AM 2-29-2004
Offline
1110 posts
Northern VA
this seal guide actually works flawlessly when used correctly in this picture you have it on backwards.
Good write up. to date Ive done 15 of them for people. Ive ordered the most chain guides from any one dealer in the country.
oh and i don't use rtv it'll seep eventually i use the VW oil pan glue. the white stuff it works flawlessly and was meant for the
same application.
1997 GTI VR6 02M 6 speed, Climatronic

1992 Civic Si HB JDM TYPE R Turbo 400 WHP
Only MK3 with a 02m 6 speed
950HP VR6 GTI
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Offline
10:14 AM 2-29-2004
Re: (Benbuilt4u)
Quote, originally posted by Benbuilt4u
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
this seal guide actually works flawlessly when used correctly in this picture you have it on backwards.
Oops. Thanks for the correction.
That explains what happened.
Anyway, it went on in no time without it. It may help out, but isn't necessary.
Gary
)
vdubjb
Member
Re: (VgRt6)
1:18 PM 2-29-2004
Offline
10279 posts
Brooklyn, Ny ny
1992 vw corrado
Post of the decade!
92 slc cca #1624

Black w/Beige leather, "Factory" moonroof
Braced,Swayed, Weitec tx,K&n,giac, TT Euros/HID's
"Who is Jeff Gordon?....."-Ralf Schumacher Corrado club of NYC
gholland93
Member
1:27 PM 2-29-2004
Re: (VgRt6)
Offline
222 posts
Sacramento ca
'93 Passat VR6
In your picture number 12, I beleive, to access the timing chain cover, this might be a dumb question but aren't the coilpack,
some hoses, thermostat housing removed?
VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Quote, originally posted by gholland93

In your picture number 12, I beleive, to access the timing chain cover, this might be a dumb question but aren't
the coilpack, some hoses, thermostat housing removed?
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
1:42 PM 2-29-2004
Re: (gholland93)
That's correct, except that the thermostat housing doesn't need to be removed.
This DIY only covers the actual replacement of the chain parts, not the steps necessary to access the valve and timing chain
covers. That's why I put this statement in the introduction ...
"The procedure assumes that the transmission, clutch, flywheel, upper intake manifold and other small parts (coilpack, TB,
airbox ...) have been removed from the car and that other steps necessary to remove these have also been performed (front
end of car raised, battery disconnected, etc). The removal of these parts on a MKIV VR6 will be covered in detail in a separate
DIY - a link to this DIY will be posted here when it is finished."
Gary
)
MacDalund
Member
Re: (VgRt6)
3:43 AM 3-1-2004
Offline
215 posts
Saint Paul MN
2000 Jetta GLS
VR6
Again, my favorite vortexer Gary!
Griffy
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (VgRt6)
1:17 PM 3-1-2004
Offline
230 posts
C.ville VA
98 GTI VR6
Holy crap! Whatta post! Awesome. Great. Awesomely great.

Many, many thanks. I actually think I can do this myself now.
God, sometimes I just love the Vortex. <sniff>
--Griff
VikingVR6GTI
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (Griffy)
1:50 PM 3-1-2004
Offline
3272 posts
Apple Valley MN
96 GTI VR6
WOW!
Thanks so much for taking the time to document all this and post it up here. This should for sure be in the FAQ's up
top. Nice work, excellent pictures, and great detail. Thank you thank you THANK YOU!!!!
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Slayer
Member
(VikingVR6GTI)
3:42 PM 3-1-2004
Offline
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Willimantic CT
2001.5 Audi S4,
2003 Buell XB9R,
1995 Golf GL VR6
swap, 1990
Corrado G60
Great post.. i'm gonna mirror this on my site
Support Crisis! - Ecard - Blood Burden video (requires quicktime) - Forums

I refuse to lay down and DIE for an American dream thats a BIG FAT LIE! - Karyn Crisis
GTIVR6PL
Member
(VikingVR6GTI)
Offline
1275 posts
Middletown/Queens
4:06 PM 3-1-2004
CT/NY
03 GTI 1.8
Yet another great write up from Gary, thats a lot of writing and work, thanks a lot man, your write ups helped plenty to
many, myself included, great job!
chicks love it, its the shaggn' wagen.

03 GTI 1.8T
01 GTI VR6 - R.I.P
VgRt6
VWvortex
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(GTIVR6PL)
4:08 PM 3-1-2004
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5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Thanks.
)
VgRt6
VWvortex
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Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (Slayer)
8:50 PM 3-1-2004
TTT
)
VgRt6
VWvortex
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Bump.
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VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
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99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Bump for those who missed it earlier this week.
)
Risky GTI
Member
Offline
153 posts
Upcountry, Maui HI
97 GTI VR6
This is absolutely w/o a doubt the best DIY post I have ever read.
Well done.
mavric
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (Risky
GTI)
11:14 PM 3-4-2004
Offline
328 posts
bend or
1992, vw raddo vr6t
is there gonna be a tranny removal one soon?
Slowly learning to work on a VW....its a little harder then the 350's im used to. It sucks not being able to rebuild my engine in
a day
IBD12NV
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Offline
366 posts
man that is one very nice write-up. great job!!!
ONE BAD BORA

GERMAN THUNDER II (DUBWAR Photos)
Old photos
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (mavric) 6:52 AM 3-5-2004
Quote, originally posted by mavric
is there gonna be a tranny removal one soon?
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
There will be at some point. I have all the necessary pics and lots of notes. I just need to find the time to do it. The DIY will be
MKIV specific, but should also help everyone else out as well.
Gary
)
VgRt6
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TTT
)
Roanzz
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86 posts
Craptown MA
95 Jetta GLX
I had seen it and knew it was good, but I finally took the time to read the whole thing (don't feel like doing any work today)
DAMN!!!! THIS IS SO HOT. So much better than the Bentley instructions.
Thanks, Will be doing this in a couple of mounths.
Also, any word on the tranny removal DIY???
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (Roanzz) 5:38 PM 3-29-2004
Offline
The tranny DIY will be up as soon as I can find some free time. I started a new job right after putting the timing chain DIY
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
together and have no more free time.

time you do your though.
I n other words, I haven't started on the tranny DIY yet.
It should be up by the
Gary
)
vr6Cop
Member
6:11 PM 3-29-2004
Online
4082 posts
Nashville TN
Gary thanks for the timing chain DIY. Mine have been rattling for a while, but I've been too busy/skeered to do it. I figure if I
can do a set of cams with just a Bentley, I can do this with your DIY
Looks like I have some work to do pretty soon
Cheers, Adrian
TN Dubs W
AIM: vr6Cop
George Pataki on Kerry: "This is a candidate who has to Google his own name to find out where he stands."
COCOTASO
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Re: (vr6Cop)
8:24 PM 3-29-2004
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956 posts
NY NY
This is the greatest post ever.
Autokrieg.....
Want boost? Get boosted http://www.cm-performance.com New Yorks Premier VW tuning shop.
kreuzer
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that are pure
excrement
montreal,Canada
'01 Golf, '97 Golf,
'93 Subie Loyale
rustbox ed.
Re: (COCOTASO)
9:08 AM 4-9-2004
WOW WOW WOW!!! What an incredible thread . Thank you so much for taking the time to snap pictures and out this together.
Now I can do this myself!!!
I have a question pertaining to the timing mark and the possibility of the cams being 180 degrees out of phase...My motor is
in apart at the moment with the head being separated from the block and no cams in the head. It is out of the car. If I install
the head, and If I line up the timing mark on the block at the crank pulley. and put in the cams, lining them up with the
aluminum plates, logic tells me that everything should be fine.
Because the crank is at the proper position, I assume the pistons would be in the same place if I did another rotaion of the
crank to that spot again....tell me if I'm ok with my logic.
Thanks!
Modified by kreuzer at 6:09 AM 4-9-2004
I stopped by the local dealership and asked the service advisor what they would charge to put my car back together for me.
He laughed in my face.
-----------------Need a custom guitar or bass? shoot me an IM. Unlimited options with woods, styles and finishes.
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Re: (kreuzer)
10:56 AM 4-9-2004
Quote, originally posted by kreuzer

WOW WOW WOW!!! What an incredible thread . Thank you so much for taking the time to snap pictures and out this
together. Now I can do this myself!!!
I have a question pertaining to the timing mark and the possibility of the cams being 180 degrees out of phase...My motor is
in apart at the moment with the head being separated from the block and no cams in the head. It is out of the car. If I install
the head, and If I line up the timing mark on the block at the crank pulley. and put in the cams, lining them up with the
aluminum plates, logic tells me that everything should be fine.
Because the crank is at the proper position, I assume the pistons would be in the same place if I did another rotaion of the
crank to that spot again....tell me if I'm ok with my logic.
Thanks!
Modified by kreuzer at 6:09 AM 4-9-2004
You are correct. All you have to do is make sure that the three timing marks/conditions are set before putting the chains on.
Set the crank pulley to the mark - this will set the pistons at the correct positons. Put the cams on a rotate them until the
plate slides in the end of the shaft - this sets the valves at the correct positions. Finally, make sure the intermediate sprocket
is aligned with the timing mark - this does not affect the valve or piston position, but makes sure that the chains will line up
with the teeth on the camshaft and crankshaft sprockets correctly.
The only problem I see (but am not sure since I've never had my head off) is that it may be difficult/impossible to rotate the
cams into position with the head on the block and the block at #1 TDC. It makes sense to me to install the cams on the head
with the head off of the block and then install the head/cams afterwards.
Gary
)
corpsedub
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2019 posts
san francisco
outstanding write..give me confidence to do this myself!!
vwmk1gti
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1:54 PM 4-9-2004
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60 posts
Victoria BC
1979 Rabbit GTI,
1995 Jetta VR6
Great write up
DIRTYSOUTHDUBS
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91 posts
orlando fl.
rt.now.. 97vr6 jetta,
porche924gts
i fallowed this diy and did this job myself i am a lil bit wrench freindly and it worked out great and saved me 1500.00 bux
thanx bro you are the man
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(DIRTYSOUTHDUBS)
Offline
10:54 PM 4-92004
Quote, originally posted by DIRTYSOUTHDUBS

i fallowed this diy and did this job myself i am a lil bit wrench freindly and it worked out great and saved me
1500.00 bux thanx bro you are the man
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Glad to hear that the DIY actually works! Thanks for the reply.
Gary
)
roland98gti
Member
Offline
88 posts
meriden ct
98 gti vr6
GREAT JOB ON WRITE UP JUST LOST #5 EXHAUST VALVE HEAD AT 6500 RPM DUE TO AUTOTECHS SPORT VALVE SPRINGS
PUT 2 INCH HOLE IN PISTON AND RUINED ENTIRE ENGINE DON'T KNOW IF LIFT WAS TOO MUCH OR SPRINGS ARE CRAP
GOING WITH SCHRICKS NOW SHOULD HAVE SPENT THE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE
VgRt6
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(roland98gti)
11:38 PM 4-9-2004
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99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
)
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
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5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
TTT ... want to keep this in current threads.

Gary
)
VR6 Mk3
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1:15 PM 5-7-2004
Offline
4105 posts
Rochester/Albany NY Amazing write-up, this will help me out a lot
96.0 Jetta GLX
-Nick
dubR.com
Jetta
More Pics: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1383565
aceclimber722
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (VR6
Mk3)
8:09 PM 5-7-2004
Offline
486 posts
Clemson sc
92 Montana green
GTI
Thank you VgRt6.
1997 Green GTI VR6(Sold
1992 Montana Green GTI 16v
airmaster
Member
7:18 AM 5-8-2004
Offline
1 posts
Fremont CA
1993 passat glx vr6
Thanks for all the good input. I ripped the head off of my 130k vr6 and found the reveted timing chain tensioner through the
metal backing. Looks like I have to fix that schreech in the clutch as well. Anyone got any ideas on where I can get a good set
of mid-range to top end cams?
Airmaster
nuugen
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Re: (airmaster)
10:58 AM 5-8-2004
Offline
2321 posts
akron oh
'86 Scirocco 2.8
VR6. '90 Coupe
quattro 20v. '90 90S
quattro 20v. And
another 5kcsq-t
Make it a STICKY
People going slower than you are MORONS....

But people going faster than you are idiots
"Peter, where were you Saturday?! Lumbergh was looking for you!"
"Micheal, I did nothing on Saturday...I did absolutely nothing, and it
was everything I thought it could be!"
b3wagon
Member
Re: (nuugen)
1:34 PM 5-8-2004
Offline
167 posts
Ottawa on
1991 VW Passat
Wagon
wow- awesome job guys

nice sound clip link aswell
gotta make this sticky
vwmk1gti
Member
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60 posts
Victoria BC
1979 Rabbit GTI,
1995 Jetta VR6
Great Post
VR6 Oh my
Member
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957 posts
Albany NY
92 Jetta 95 GTI VR6
(vwmk1gti)
9:53 PM 5-18-2004
AWESOME post Gary! I just got my 95 GTI and it's my first VR6...and of course i had already heard about the possible timing
chain issues i'd run into. I'm happy to say that i don't have any at the present (114k) but i'm sure i'll be hanging onto this car
for quite some time...and will end up doing the chains at one point or another...
This needs to be a sticky for sure...thanks again Gary!
Chuck
"in the future please refrain from attempting to circumvent the language filters and especially from advising other users to kill
themselves"
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (VR6 Oh
my)
10:21 PM 5-18-2004
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Thanks.
Gary
)
billiethebutcher
Member
7:23 AM 5-29-2004
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87 posts
az
some people are too
stupid for their own
good
how long did it take you to pull the trans and rip and tear into the car.. start to finish...
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
8:31 AM 5-29-2004
Re: (billiethebutcher)
It took us about 4 days working on it part time (included a full Saturday and an almost full Sunday). I figure it was about 20
hours start to finish. We we learning as we went a long though, so it would have taken us less time. Also, it took us over 2
hours just to remove three bolts from the driver's side tranny mount (specific to the MKIV). There was 2-3" of loctite on each
Replacing the chains was only about 3-4
bolt and we could only turn the bolts with a 3' breaker bar 30-45 at a time.
hours and removing engine bay parts and replacing them was only about 6 hours or so, so removing the tranny was the
biggest part (about half of the time).
Gary
)
VWDrvrsWtd
Member
9:26 PM 6-2-2004
Re: (VgRt6)
Offline
1884 posts
Middle TN
Fantastic write-up.
To the top it goes.
Proud to be a straight white Southern VW owner

28Jan86 11Sep01 1Feb 03 | Don't buy parts at West Suburban VW, Maywood IL
Waffles belong in a breakfast bar - not the White House. Vote GOP.
VgRt6
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99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
10:21 AM 6-16-2004
Re: (VWDrvrsWtd)
Bump so it doesn't get archived ...

Gary
)
vadimsel
Member
3:02 PM 7-19-2004
Re: (VgRt6)
Offline
4 posts
NY NY
VW Jetta VR6
I'm sorry, but it mentioned that you have audio file with the noise that bad timing chain produce. I didn't find it. Can you put
the link again?
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
3:45 PM 7-19-2004
Re: (vadimsel)
Offline
http://www.agthompsonfamily.co...e.wma
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Right click on the above link and select Save Target As.
Gary
)
DHill
Member
Re: (VgRt6)
11:15 PM 7-27-2004
Offline
1980 posts
Columbus OH
98 GLX Jet + other
stuff
Bump for a good thread.
| Polish ANYTHING! | NO BUSH '04 | Car Lounge Vid Thread | VW Parts Links |
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Re: (DHill)
6:19 PM 8-2-2004
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
I just added some important info for those using this DIY to reinstall an upper timing chain after a head rebuild or headgasket
replacement to the DIY UPDATE section and the end of the DIY. Make sure to read this section before attempting to do this.
Gary
)
First < 1 2 3 4 > Last
Quick Reply



mhjett
Member
Re: (VgRt6)
8:43 PM 9-6-2004
Offline
1502 posts
Grand Rapids MI
1995 Jetta GLX VR6
1987 GLI
bump for this great post, about to do this on my car...
1995 Jetta GLX

a2vr6cti
Member
Re: (mhjett)
12:23 AM 9-9-2004
Offline
190 posts
Owings Mills MD
1992 Volkswagen
Passat 16v, 1989
Volkswagen GTi VR6
great post. thanks VgTr6
Buy my 1992 16v Passat GL 5speed. Runs really well, and has been well maintained. The interior isn't so great and
neither is the body. Asking $1000. It's a great beater or 16v swap.
http://www.mis-one.com/videos/ThisisYoutoo.mov
Scrubby_4
Member
Re: (a2vr6cti)
11:32 PM 9-9-2004
Offline
287 posts
Baltimore Md
Cliff what are you looking at this for.....???
Gotta get my post count up somehow
inopias
Member
4:11 AM 9-14-2004
Re: (Scrubby_4)
Offline
223 posts
East Brunswick NJ
96 jetta glx vr6 stock
ttt
IIIDJD
mkIII GTI VDUB

Member
9:14 PM 9-15-2004
Re: (inopias)
Offline
99 posts
tyngsboro ma
97 VW GTI VR6 RED
stock- yeah ok! every
thing but leather
thanx for the great post figured it out in the time i takes u to figure out all this in the bently and do it and put it
back to gether ,you can use this 1 and install cams in the same amount of time kill 2 birds with 1 stone i love it
thanx for the huge time save and money saver!!!!
they say braging is a right for having a nice car . i say if your car is so nice y should u have to brag, the car should
brag for you.......bragging is like the old saying "its better to be called dum than to open your mouth and prove it.
pet peave: braggers
VgRt6
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Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
and rude, inconsiderate , self centered @s$ hole$
9:17 PM 9-15-2004
Re: (mkIII GTI VDUB)
You're welcome.
Gary
Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v her though
(RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved

KIEZERJOSE
Member
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 12:30 PM 9-18-2004
(VgRt6)
Offline
3556 posts
QUEENS NY
98 VR6 jett
Bump
good pics man
I'll set you up like kiezer and walk straight at the end.
FS- NEW vr6 fan control module, NEW top and bottom VR6 motor mounts, VR6 air intake box, turn signals
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1434714
http://www.fourseasontuning.com/
L33TX43RT
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(KIEZERJOSE)
1:21 PM 9-182004
Offline
999 posts
Broward County FL
It's only a Passat...
THere should've been a 'sticky' on this thread, ages ago...
Michael
1996 VW Passat GLX - 5-speed
http://members9.clubphoto.com/...phtml
Euro_Parts
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(L33TX43RT)
2:51 AM 9-222004
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473 posts
Worldwide Shipping
69' Hemi
Just pointed towards this thread!!! VERY VERY handy!!!! I gotta use the 'search' more lol
CHECK OUT MY MEGA MK2 GOLF EBAY SALE

BUY MY STUFF OR MY PET PUPPY WILL NOT EAT!!!
'Keep your friends close... and your enemies closer..'

SLC4EVER
VWvortex Moderator
Offline
6911 posts
San Diego CA
'93 VW Corrado SLC
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 11:30 AM 9-22-2004
(L33TX43RT)
Quote, originally posted by L33TX43RT
THere should've been a 'sticky' on this thread, ages ago...
Check the FAQ, there is a link in there already....
-Dak
93 SLC Black on Black
225 at the wheels N/A...35/18 that is.
FS: OE OBD1 MAF sensor - like new
"I drive way too fast to worry about my cholesterol."
Duzz
Member
(SLC4EVER)
Offline
89 posts
riceville TX
2000 GTI
is it necessary to remove the upper tensioner bolt if your only replacing the upper guide rail?
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(Duzz)
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5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Yes. You need to remove the upper timing chain cover to replace the upper guide and you'll need to remove the
tensioner bolt before removing the upper cover.
Gary

mhjett
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline
1502 posts
Grand Rapids MI
1995 Jetta GLX VR6
1987 GLI
Just did the chains and a clutch following these instructions a few weeks ago. Thanks man
problem is an oil leak now
It went great, only
Need to look at it further....
1995 Jetta GLX

VgRt6
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(mhjett)
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5527 posts
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99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Gary

swifty
Member
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125 posts
Southern Cali
'96 Jetta VR6
Kompressor
(VgRt6)
Hey Gary. I'm not sure if you can help, but I think I followed your directions (as best I could) when re-installing my
head after a head gasket replacement (which lowered my compression to 8.5:1 for a 15psi supercharger system).
The first time, I installed the timing chain incorrectly (most likely 1/2 a tooth off) and, when I started the car, the
chain was audibly clanking loudly and the engine seemed like it wanted to jump out of the engine bay (like a
flopping fish out of water
). Then I re-aligned the timing chain making sure the engine was at cyl #1 TDC (by
matching up the nick in the crank pulley with the little line on the block) and made sure the notch in the
intermediate sprocket was showing.
The car now runs as smoothly as it had before the head gasket replacement but it seems to be overheating after
running for 3-5 minutes (but does not over heat at idle...only after the throttle pushes the engine over 2K rpm a
couple of times
) because coolant is being spewed from the overflow tanks pressure release holes. I checked for
visible leaks and did not see any steam leaking from anywhere accept the coolant overflow tank. The Bentley said
that a poorly timed engine will cause over heating. Do these symptoms sound like I screwed up my timing? If so, is
there a suggestion beyond what you have already wrote to correct it. If it does not seem like the timing, can you
recommend a place to get a coolant pressure testing tool? or can you think of any other suggestions?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
FS: VR6 underdrive crank pulley http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1497972

FS: VR6 OBDII Camshaft Position Sensor http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1620680
zero666cool
Member
(swifty)
Offline
816 posts
Glendale CA
89 Black VR6 GTi, 87
16V Blue GTi (race
setup), 87 16V Red
GTi, 92 8V Green GTi,
90 8v Black GTi
great post, really helpful, so those upper and lower chains are the only chains available? My VR6 makes some chain
noise too, it is not too bad, but I was wondering whether I should fix the problem by changing the guides only or
should I change the chains too? I'm not sure how many miles does the engine have, since I picked it up as MK2
VR6, but the previous owner said something like 70 k or something around it.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/mad_toy
Parting out a 92 GTi, automatic http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1544915
Let me know if you need anything, most of the stuff are gone already (seats, door panels etc..)
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(swifty)
Offline
Quote, originally posted by swifty

Hey Gary. I'm not sure if you can help, but I think I followed your directions (as best I could) when reinstalling my head after a head gasket replacement (which lowered my compression to 8.5:1 for a
15psi supercharger system). The first time, I installed the timing chain incorrectly (most likely 1/2 a
tooth off) and, when I started the car, the chain was audibly clanking loudly and the engine seemed like
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
it wanted to jump out of the engine bay (like a flopping fish out of water
). Then I re-aligned the
timing chain making sure the engine was at cyl #1 TDC (by matching up the nick in the crank pulley
with the little line on the block) and made sure the notch in the intermediate sprocket was showing.
The car now runs as smoothly as it had before the head gasket replacement but it seems to be
overheating after running for 3-5 minutes (but does not over heat at idle...only after the throttle
pushes the engine over 2K rpm a couple of times
) because coolant is being spewed from the
overflow tanks pressure release holes. I checked for visible leaks and did not see any steam leaking
from anywhere accept the coolant overflow tank. The Bentley said that a poorly timed engine will cause
over heating. Do these symptoms sound like I screwed up my timing? If so, is there a suggestion
beyond what you have already wrote to correct it. If it does not seem like the timing, can you
recommend a place to get a coolant pressure testing tool? or can you think of any other suggestions?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
It sounds to me like the engine is timed correctly. My guess is there might be a problem with the new HG, but I'm
not positive. I don't think I can be much help on this one unfortunately. I'd start a new thread about this - most of
the knowledgeable VR6 guys probably don't visit this thread all that often.
Gary

VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(zero666cool)
7:27 AM 9-282004
Offline
Quote, originally posted by zero666cool
great post, really helpful, so those upper and lower chains are the only chains available? My VR6 makes
some chain noise too, it is not too bad, but I was wondering whether I should fix the problem by
changing the guides only or should I change the chains too? I'm not sure how many miles does the
engine have, since I picked it up as MK2 VR6, but the previous owner said something like 70 k or
something around it.
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
I'd say it would depend on what type of chain setup your engine has. Can you find and post the engine code and
production number? If it's an AAA engine, it will be on the passenger side of the intake manifold behind the fuel
lines. If it's an AFP, it will be on the back of the intake manifold. I'm not sure where the BDF engine number is
located. If you have an AAA engine with a production number of 217000 or lower, then you have the older doublechain setup. I'd consider replacing everything in these case. If you have an AAA #217001 or later, AFP or BDF,
then you may be able to get a way with only replacing a guide.
Gary

zero666cool
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline

I'd say it would depend on what type of chain setup your engine has. Can you find and post the engine
code and production number? If it's an AAA engine, it will be on the passenger side of the intake
manifold behind the fuel lines. If it's an AFP, it will be on the back of the intake manifold. I'm not sure
where the BDF engine number is located. If you have an AAA engine with a production number of
217000 or lower, then you have the older double-chain setup. I'd consider replacing everything in these
case. If you have an AAA #217001 or later, AFP or BDF, then you may be able to get a way with only
replacing a guide.
816 posts
Glendale CA
16V Blue GTi (race
setup), 87 16V Red
90 8v Black GTi
Gary
Thanks, actually I don't know what the engine code is on this, I think the engine is out of a corrado, but it used to
have a 97 jetta engine? So the chain position differs on differ engine codes? I thought they are all on the driver
side, hmm, there is a metal cover covering the chain right?
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
(zero666cool)
All VR6s have the chains on the driver's side covered by two metal covers. What differs between the engines is the
upper chain (single or double row), upper tensioner rail and upper tensioner bolt.
Gary
swifty
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline

It sounds to me like the engine is timed correctly. My guess is there might be a problem with the new
HG, but I'm not positive. I don't think I can be much help on this one unfortunately. I'd start a new
thread about this - most of the knowledgeable VR6 guys probably don't visit this thread all that often.
125 posts
Southern Cali
'96 Jetta VR6
Kompressor
Gary
Thanks for the suggestion. You have been so helpful to so many who ask questions, that I feel bad asking yet
another.
You were correct before that there was a problem with my head gasket. I believe that I have fixed the HG but I
continue to get a Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance code (P0341 with my OBDII scan tool) and
the engine oscillate between 300-1200 rpm at idle about half the time.
Here is my question, specific to your expertise. I was wondering if my timing would continue to be off if I
had pulled the head from the car, without making 100% sure that the engine was at Cyl #1 TDC, but
had followed your DIY instructions for the timing correction. That is, after putting the head back on (and
before installing the upper timing chain) I made sure the camshafts (which hadn't been removed from the head)
could have the camshaft alignment tool (tool #3268) installed correctly. Then, I made sure the block was at cyl #1
TDC using both the markings on the crankshaft pulley and the indicators on the flywheel (which were a little off so I
slightly averaged the two). After both of these steps were taken, I installed the cam sprockets and upper timing
chain, which was a little tight on the non-tensioner side.
My symptoms are as follows: The engine will surges at higher rpms than idle while I am driving. At first I thought it
was my ECU adjusting to my new fuel management chip, so I unplugged my MAF sensor (throwing the car into limp
mode) which usually takes away that problem. But when I did that the car will not go over 2K rpm with loosing all
power (which never happened before when the MAF was unplugged).
The weird thing is that whether the CPS is plugged in or not I will still get the same P0341 code, even after I erased
the code. I thought for sure the code would change to a CPS low input code or something but it just stayed the
same. I even replaced the sensor with a new one from the dealer but the code just pops right up after starting the
car, even after just erasing the code. I would care about the CEL light but the car stalls as soon as I take my foot
off the gas, runs very poorly and seems quite hot.
I also did not bleed my old style upper timing chain tensioner but didn't think this could cause such extreme
driveablity problems.
I will also take your earlier advice and start a thread of my own else where, but thought I would just ask you
anyway. Sorry the run on at the keyboard

VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(swifty)
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Don't worry about asking questions. I may not always have an answer, but don't mind reading the questions.
When you set the bottom end to cyl#1 TDC, did you set the crankshaft to the correct position (using the crank
pulley marks or the flywheel marks) AND make sure that the notch on the intermediate sprocket was visible? If not,
then it's possible that the timing is one-half of a tooth off.
I'm not sure why you're getting the code. Maybe the timing is causing it. I was going to say that the sensor was
bad and suggest that you change it, but you already did that. This is definitely a question for another thread.
I can check my Bentley CD at home tonight to see what it says about your code, but I'm not sure how helpful it will
be.
Gary

swifty
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline
125 posts
Southern Cali
'96 Jetta VR6
Kompressor
Thanks for your reply, Gary. I will keep my ears on the other boards. One issue, which I think may be a
contributing factor to my current problem, is that the code started after installing a head spacer that raised the
height of the top of the engine. This increased the distance between the intermediate sprocket and the camshaft
sprockets. I have been told that this distance is liveable, as long as one advances the timing when dealing with the
now offset timing chain. However, I do not know which direction the upper timing chain must travel to
"advance the timing." That is, if their is slack on the non-tensioner side of the upper timing chain (resulting from
the new spacer), should the slack be moved clock wise (from looking at the crankshaft) or counterclockwise? Or is
this thinking an incorrect way to adjust for the spacer?
Modified by swifty at 3:26 PM 10-1-2004

KIEZERJOSE
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline
3556 posts
QUEENS NY
98 VR6 jett
I know this might be a little off topic but do you know if there is a DIY on cams and valve springs?
I'll set you up like kiezer and walk straight at the end.
FS- NEW vr6 fan control module, NEW top and bottom VR6 motor mounts, VR6 air intake box, turn signals
http://www.fourseasontuning.com/
zero666cool
Member
Offline
816 posts
Glendale CA
16V Blue GTi (race
setup), 87 16V Red
90 8v Black GTi
(VgRt6)
All VR6s have the chains on the driver's side covered by two metal covers. What differs between the
engines is the upper chain (single or double row), upper tensioner rail and upper tensioner bolt.
Gary
So the upper chain varies, do you know what possibly corrado engines use? I was going to buy this whole setup
from this guy, I'm glad I put a hold on it, where can I find the engine code? Can you tell me which engine code
used what kind of chain?
Thank,
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(zero666cool)
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
AFAIK, all Corrado engines used the older double-upper-chain setup.

Gary

zero666cool
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline
816 posts
Glendale CA
16V Blue GTi (race
setup), 87 16V Red
90 8v Black GTi
there isn't any variety in the double chains right? the only differ is single and double?
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
(zero666cool)
Only difference is single or double row.
Gary

ubercruizinvr6
Member
Offline
410 posts
Orange County CA
1998 GTI VR6
(VgRt6)
someone may have mentioned this down the line....but helpful hint;
on an A3 VR6, the thermostat cover part of the thermostat housing has to be removed in order to remove the lower
timing chain cover. There is a bolt that is around 2.5 to 3" long that must be removed, and theres really no way
around it without pulling that t-stat cover. so, may want to have some G11/G12 and water handy if you're about to
attempt the job.
other then that, BUMP for one of the most informative and helpful VR6 DIYs on this site. Thanks Gary!
Track your Dub; It likes it rough.

Der Strmwagn--still evolving.
Volkswaffe
zero666cool
Member
(ubercruizinvr6)
3:42 AM 10-52004
Offline
816 posts
Glendale CA
16V Blue GTi (race
setup), 87 16V Red
90 8v Black GTi
sorry to take over your post Gary, but it seems I couldn't find the engine code
, but some ppl told me that the
engine is obd 2 at the RPG, the previous owner told me it is off a corrado and they were telling me that it should be
from a 94 corrado if it is from a corrado, I don't know much about the VR6 engine, so I don't know. What kind of
timing chain did the 94 corrado use?
thanks
VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(ubercruizinvr6)
Offline
7:22 AM 10-52004
Quote, originally posted by ubercruizinvr6

on an A3 VR6, the thermostat cover part of the thermostat housing has to be removed in order to
remove the lower timing chain cover. There is a bolt that is around 2.5 to 3" long that must be
removed, and theres really no way around it without pulling that t-stat cover. so, may want to have
some G11/G12 and water handy if you're about to attempt the job.
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
Did they change this on the AFP engines? There's no such bolt on the AFP. The lower cover comes off no problem
without touching the T-stat housing.
Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't heard of this bolt before.
Gary

VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
(zero666cool)
Offline
7:23 AM 10-52004
Quote, originally posted by zero666cool
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
, but some ppl told

sorry to take over your post Gary, but it seems I couldn't find the engine code
me that the engine is obd 2 at the RPG, the previous owner told me it is off a corrado and they were
telling me that it should be from a 94 corrado if it is from a corrado, I don't know much about the VR6
engine, so I don't know. What kind of timing chain did the 94 corrado use?
thanks
If it really is an AAA engine out of a '94 Corrado, then it uses the older double-upper chain setup.
Gary
Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 -
Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v her though

mhjett
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline
1502 posts
Grand Rapids MI
1995 Jetta GLX VR6
1987 GLI
The lower cover comes off no problem without touching the T-stat housing.
Gary
I just did timing chains on my MkIII GLX, and we had to loosen the T-stat cover to get the lower cover bolt out...
expensive G12 went all over the floor.
1995 Jetta GLX

VgRt6
VWvortex Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown MD
99.5 Jetta GLS VR6
(mhjett)
That's intersting. I wouldn't have guessed that the AAA and AFP timing chain covers or T-stat housings were
different.
Why does the T-stat housing need to be removed? Is on of the bolts behind it? Can someone post a pic?
Gary

ubercruizinvr6
Member
(VgRt6)
Offline
410 posts
Orange County CA
1998 GTI VR6
I'll post one up when I get home. the bolt head basically is about an 1/4" away from the housing itself. That is
pretty strange that VW would change the t-stat housing from Mk III to Mk IV...

Volkswaffe
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The 2nd C2
VR6T
12v VR6 Engine Forum
DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6
10:22 PM 10-6-2004
We need a dedicated DIY forum.......for only substantiated, "correct" information.

Thanks for a Professional write up.....
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mhjett
Member
10:32 PM 10-6-2004
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (ubercruizinvr6)
Offline
1502 posts
Grand Rapids
MI
1995 Jetta GLX
VR6 1987 GLI
Yeah, one of the timing chain cover bolts is behind the T-stat housing. It's a long bolt, and it can't be pulled far enough out unless the T-stat housing is pulled away from the engine. Don't have a pic for you...
We were studying your pic Gary when we followed your DIY and couldn't figure out HOW you got the bolt out without removing the T-stat housing.
1995 Jetta GLX

VgRt6
VWvortex
Moderator
Offline
5527 posts
Germantown
MD
99.5 Jetta GLS
VR6
12:27 AM 10-7-2004
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (mhjett)
My friend who helped me do the timing chain job (James 93SLC - had previously done it on his Corrado) said we needed to take the T-stat housing off, but when we got to that step, we realized we didn't need to.
This is really strange. I'm anxious to see your pic and compare it to one of mine.
Gary

ubercruizinvr6
Member
Offline
410 posts
Orange County
CA
1998 GTI VR6
well most of the pictures i have are 'after the fact' i only took pictures after the cover was pulled.....but the actual 'thermostat housing' is fine and can stay in the block. the part that actually needs to be removed is this:
The thermostat cover.
3:23 AM 10-7-2004
Here is the best picture I have of the thermostat cover and how it interferes with removal of the lower timing chain cover:
hopefully that pic explains it.

Volkswaffe
James 93SLC
Member
Offline
857 posts
Northeast OH
93 Corrado SLC
9:15 AM 10-7-2004
My friend who helped me do the timing chain job (James 93SLC - had previously done it on his Corrado) said we needed to take the T-stat housing off, but when we got to that step, we realized we didn't need to.
Gary
I had taken off the whole thermostat because I was also removing the head at the same time. When we did Gary's I just figured it would be in the way, but alas I don't think we had any bolt clearance issues by leaving it on.
This is indeed a bit strange
James
There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
93 SLC ...Turn2, TT Exhaust, Koni, TT Chip
The 12V VR6 headgasket/timing chain/cooling system parts list
Corrado Hood Release parts
VgRt6
VWvortex
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Germantown
MD
99.5 Jetta GLS
VR6
9:21 AM 10-7-2004
Re: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6 (ubercruizinvr6)
Thanks. That picture explains everything. We had no problem getting that bolt out. I wonder if they changed the shape of the T-stat cover or shortened the bolt. I'm going to take a look at some of my pics and see if I can figure out what's different.
I'm planning on adding this info to the main DIY post and giving you credit.
Thanks again.
Gary

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VWvortex Forums: DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6

My Profile | Active Users | Help | Search

VWvortex Forums 12v VR6 Engine Forum

DIY - Replacing timing chains,

DIY - Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (1 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

The tools needed to perform the procedures are:

10mm, 13mm, 15mm and 27mm sockets or wrenches

The VW part #s for the parts replaced in this DIY are:

D - upper timing chain

* 021 109 465 B - lower timing chain

Let me know if you have any questions.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (2 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

Modified by VgRt6 at 4:39 PM 2-28-2004

Modified by VgRt6 at 5:45 PM 8-2-2004

Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -

(168,500 miles and counting!

REMOVING OLD TIMING CHAIN PARTS

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (3 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (4 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

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http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (16 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -

(168,500 miles and counting!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (17 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

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Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -

(168,500 miles and counting!

DIY UPDATES ...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (27 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (28 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -

(168,500 miles and counting!

GIAC v.11 chip

QUE VIVA COLOMBIA HIJUEPUTA!!!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (29 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

Adirondack Auto Brokers

Impex Foreign Auto Parts

Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -

(168,500 miles and counting!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409&page=1 (30 of 40) [10/7/2004 6:03:08 PM]

do you do this with the motor out of the cars?

Now: 1999.5 Jetta GLS VR6 Then: 1990 Passat GL 16v -

(168,500 miles and counting!

Re: (Bimmer Beater)