Professional Documents
Culture Documents
COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS
(BLUE RIBBON)
DATE
TIME
10:30 a.m.
VENUE
Session Hall
2nd Floor, Senate of the Philippines
Financial Center, Roxas Boulevard
Pasay City
AGENDA
ATTENDANCE
SENATORS:
HON.
HON.
HON.
HON.
GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:
Atty. Marissa O. Cabreros
Mr. Adrian Au
SENATORS STAFF:
Atty. Nicholai Noel B. Lazaro
Ms. Judith Lee
G.H. Ambat
Ms. Khristine Joy E. Pulumbarit
Mr. George A. Dolocanog
Atty. Dante Xenon B. Atienza
Ms. Giselle Anne B. Campos
Mr. Reynold Evangelista
Mr. Ronyll Mendoza
Mr. Julius Gumibao
Mr. Virgilio Terre
Atty. Valerie A. Joy Brion
Atty. Patricia Rebao
Mr. Ryan Martin Macalatan
Mr. Doni Capuyan
Ms. Kathreena D. Tan
Ms. Joan Dairo-Revoltar
Mr. Ricardo Calimag
Ms. Ma. Clarissa Lopez
Ms. Cecile Palines
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
O/S
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Enrile
Enrile
Enrile
Pimentel
Pimentel
Pimentel
Osmea
Osmea
Osmea
Binay
Binay
Aquino
SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Atty. Rodolfo Noel S. Quimbo
- do
- do
Director III, Senate Tax Studies
and Research Office (STSRO)
Director II, STSRO
Supervising Legislative Staff
Officer II, STSRO
the
AMLC,
the
Commission
proper,
the
Insurance
THE CHAIRMAN.
Good morning.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Good morning.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Thank you.
first time, could you please stand and raise your right hand? Those
who are here for the first time, raise your right hand.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth in this proceeding?
Kindly nod to say yes.
Thank you. You may take your seats.
[The following resource persons took their oath and replied in the
affirmative: Ms. Aquino, Mr. Palmares, and Mr. De Jesus.]
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. S. TAN.
one week.
MR. S. TAN.
THE CHAIRMAN.
he not be coming?
MR. S. TAN.
Honor.
10
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
To AMLC.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
By AMLC?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Yes, sir.
But I understood that all the records pertaining to all the four
accounts were there.
THE CHAIRMAN.
been submitted by RCBC to the AMLC. But I am not sure if this is the
same documents that the honorable Senator is referring to.
THE CHAIRMAN.
11
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Thank you.
And for the BSP, in the last hearing, Governor Espenilla, in the
discussion about the penalties of the banks in relation to the charter of
the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas, we were talking about a 30,000 per
transaction or 30,000 per day penalty, if you remember correctly?
MR. ESPENILLA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
make some submissions with regard to some changes that you wish
not only for the Bangko Sentral charter but also for the Anti-Money
Laundering.
MR. ESPENILLA.
12
What is this
30,000?
THE
CHAIRMAN.
Governor
Espenilla,
could
you
please
elaborate?
MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
13
The BSP was queried as to what are the limits in terms of the
monetary penalties that the BSP may impose.
I clarified, Mr.
Chairman, that under the existing BSP charter, we are limited by law
to impose a maximum of 30,000 per day per violation, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE.
maximum penalty? That is the upper part of the range of penalty that
you can exact. What led you to go to that limit, to the upper limit?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, I was just answering what
is the limit
SEN. ENRILE. No, I am asking you, you are a part of policymaking and you are suggesting a policy that you will have to exact the
maximum penalty, and the question that enters immediately to my
mind, what caused that?
MR. ESPENILLA.
should be some review of the upper limit because, for example, in the
situation at hand, in the money laundering case, for example
SEN. ENRILE. Are you suggesting that the banking system has
become deteriorated to such an extent that you have to exact the
maximum penalties so that you can control the situation, or are you
suggesting that you have become so inefficient that you have to exact
the maximum penalty in order to make your efficiency higher?
14
Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. Very small, you said. But that is precisely the
rangethat range was intended by the government to exact severity in
relation to exact situations, isnt it? That is the purpose of that, from
zero to 30,000.
Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. Yeah, if you are efficient and you cannot control
the situation, you dont have to impose a penalty because everybody
15
sumusunod?
Dahil
diyan
ay
ipinapataw
ninyo
iyong
16
Are you
saying that the situation has become a little bit unwieldy that you have
now to impose a maximum penalty for violations?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, we dont think the system
is unwieldy but I think the situation warrants sanction to those who
have violated the law, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. The law is wise, you know, it established a range
from zero up to an upper limit depending upon the condition of the
system. And that is why I am asking you as an administrator whether
you have reached that upper limit that reflects the efficiency of the
system.
MR. ESPENILLA.
I am asking for a
context?
17
SEN. ENRILE. Why not reduce it? You cannot reduce it because
that will be illogical in relation to the situation, isnt it?
MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman, we have to apply or the
Monetary Board has to take into consideration the context of a specific
situation in determining what amount of penalty to impose, Mr.
Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. No, no, no. We are establishing a policy. What
you are suggesting is discretion based on your judgment.
must establish a rule, a guide.
The law
prerogative to do that.
MR. ESPENILLA.
you are not lawmaking, we are the lawmakers and I am asking you, as
a matter of policy whether the situation demands that we increase the
penalties which shows that the situation has deteriorated or that your
efficiency has dwindled.
MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, the situation demands higher
penalties. But I dont think the situation has deteriorated.
SEN. ENRILE. Why do you increase the penalty if there is no
basis?
18
ENRILE.
am
asking
for
the
basis
of
your
arbitrary decision for the people, it is not your decision, this is going to
affect the people.
MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, if I may
SEN. ENRILE.
19
MR. ESPENILLA.
country.
SEN. ENRILE.
least?
MR. ESPENILLA.
Thank you.
20
THE CHAIRMAN.
Atty. Nepomuceno.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
that 550 million entered Midas and it wasnilaro doon sa junket, ano
po?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
look at all the accounts that were played in the casino and we are
determining what is the portion of the ... playing account vis--vis the
entire report of the gross gaming revenue reported to the junket
agent, which is Prime Investment Korea Inc.
THE CHAIRMAN.
in the last hearing, you will give the amount in 10 working days. Iyon
po. I am readingI have the transcript.
21
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Actually, we have a
ballpark figure of the amount. We are able to actually evaluate all the
records. We are still in the process of completing the records that we
will be submitting.
THE CHAIRMAN.
is
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Okay.
report, so we can
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
And you were asked if it is possible for you to bring itto return it to
Bangladesh.
22
Correct.
MS. BACAY-ABAD.
THE CHAIRMAN.
they are under the Office of the President, they need the clearance
from the Office of the President. But again, like you said, which I also
agree, I think, that it is public money, therefore, you need an
appropriation for its release. But nevertheless, the point being that we
23
Leisure Company, through its lawyer, turned over the amount of P200
million to the AMLC for safekeeping to be returned to the Peoples
Republic of Bangladesh.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Mr. Kim Wong, ito ba iyong bahagi nung 450 na sinabi niyo po?
MR. WONG.
Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.
And one last detail, Ms. Abad, when there is civil forfeiture
casein this case, let us be very specific, the government of
Bangladesh has to intervene in the civil forfeiture case.
Because if
24
they do not intervene and say that it is their money, then the court will
declare it as the money of the republic. Am I correct?
MS. BACAY-ABAD.
are here also, so they are listening. But please inform them later on,
make sure that they file an intervention.
Okay. We go to Philrem.
Mr. Palmares.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Pakilapit lang.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Magandang umaga.
Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
25
THE CHAIRMAN.
ito signature.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
bagay na ito.
26
THE CHAIRMAN.
mo rito at mismong notaryo ang nagsabi hindi daw siya ang nagnotaryo nito? I warn you, puwede po kayong makulong dito.
MR. PALMARES.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
po.
27
THE CHAIRMAN.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Paki-kwento mo
anong nangyari.
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Nagsumpa ka?
MR. PALMARES.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Nagtaas ka ng kamay?
MR. PALMARES.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Kanino?
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
kinalaman diyan?
Ano, Mr. De Jesus, anong tingin--
28
MR. DE JESUS.
nakikita ni minsan.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Ni minsan?
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
nakita?
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
kayo?
nakikita.
29
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. AQUINO.
notary public.
SEN. AQUINO.
SEN. AQUINO.
notarized, itong affidavit na ito dahil you are saying hindi kayo ito?
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. AQUINO.
30
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.
Ito po.
Ngayon nakalagay dito notary public-- notary
public ka?
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.
Opo.
May lisensiya ka na notary public?
Opo.
Okay. Lahat dito sa mga nakasulat dito sa ilalim
31
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.
po
SEN. ENRILE.
dito.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Bakit hindi mo
Opo.
32
THE CHAIRMAN.
THE CHAIRMAN.
kuwan.
Alam mo, paano malalaman ito nitong tao na ito, isang
messenger,
kung
hindi
ikaw
ang
naglagay
niyan?
Walang
ito.
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.
akin ito.
33
SEN. ENRILE.
mo.
inyo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
notarized this?
MR. DE JESUS.
Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
Yes?
Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
34
SEN. ENRILE.
registry of documents?
ninyo it is senta copy is sent to the civil registry, I think, hindi ba?
MR. DE JESUS.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
notarial registerthe book where you record all the documents that
you notarized?
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.
Mr. Palmares?
MR. PALMARES.
Sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Saan ka ba nakatira?
35
MR. PALMARES.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. PALMARES.
392 Columbia.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Stay in ka?
MR. PALMARES.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. PALMARES.
36
CHAIRMAN.
Sige.
Sabi
mo
rito
nag-deliver
ka
ng P90,000?
MR. PALMARES. Ninety million, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Im sorry, P90,000,000 at $500,000?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa Solaire?
37
Oho.
38
MR. PALMARES.
$500,000.
THE CHAIRMAN. Saan mo kinuha iyong pera?
MR. PALMARES. Bale po pinick up (pick up) ko lang po iyon sa
opisina namin po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Saan iyong opisina nyo?
MR. PALMARES. Makati po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong address?
MR. PALMARES. Sa Cityland.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong address?
MR. PALMARES. 2401.
THE CHAIRMAN. 2401 Cityland.
MR. PALMARES. Opo, 2401 Cityland.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong street?
MR. PALMARES. Herrera corner Esteban.
THE CHAIRMAN. So kanto siya?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pinick up (pick up) mo?
MR. PALMARES. Oo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong oras mo pinick up (pick up)?
39
40
41
THE CHAIRMAN.
Ibinaba lang po sa
42
Ganyan.
Dalawa pong
zipper.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
MR. PALMARES. At saka po isa pong bag na iyong pambabae
po na ganyan kalaki. Iyong parang shoulder bag po na
THE CHAIRMAN. So ilang bag lahat-lahat?
MR. PALMARES. Bale tatlo po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tatlo. Isang shoulder bag na pambabae.
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
43
Sabi mo may
kasama ka.
Tao iyong kasama mo?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. O, ayun pala.
44
45
pagbaba sa lobby.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sino ang tumulong sa iyo?
MR. PALMARES.
Palmares.
THE CHAIRMAN.
kasama?
46
MR. PALMARES. Hindi na po. Kasi may trolley naman po, sir,
kaya ko naman po itulak mag-isa.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
anong nangyari?
MR. PALMARES. Iyong resibo po binigay ko kay Maam Sheba
po kasi siya na lang po magpa-receive noon, iyon po ang instruction sa
akin, tapos po iyong pera po nandiyan lang po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Teka muna, teka muna. Iyong resibo binigay
mo kanino?
MR. PALMARES. Maam Sheba po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Kay Sheba. Anong ginawa ni Sheba?
MR. PALMARES. Pina-receive niya po.
47
Iyon po
48
MR. PALMARES.
receive.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos lumakad siya papunta doon?
MR. PALMARES. Uh-huh.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pero nasa loob ka ng kuwarto?
MR. PALMARES. Oho. Nasa gilid lang po kami.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa gilid.
What happened, Ms. Salud, with the receipt?
49
MS. BAUTISTA. Tapos dinala nila, iyong group nila, iyong mga
Chinese people. Tapos-THE CHAIRMAN.
standing.
MS. BAUTISTA. No, the money was there in the trolley, doon
lang sa labas.
THE CHAIRMAN. Outside?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Oo.
Solaire, hindi ba nasa right side iyong ano, iyong VIP area?
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. I havent been there.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. So, the VIP area is on the right side tapos
pagpasok mo sa lobby ng Solaire, doon sa VIP area na iyon.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. And then what happened? You gave
the receipt to Mr. Weikang Xu?
Pakikuwento lang.
MS. BAUTISTA. Actually si Mr. Wong was there. So, sabi niya
player niya si Mr. Weikang Xu.
50
51
three, four, five, six, eight--itong eight transactions dito sa number six
nakalagay kasi sa salaysay mo, The other cash deliveries that I made
which took place in the residence of the Bautistas were as follows--
So, kumbaga, nandoon ka noong na-deliver iyong perang ito, tama ba?
So, Mark, naintindihan mo iyong--Ill repeat the question.
Dito sa affidavit mo nakalagay dito na on February 10, may 100
million at saka $3 million; February 11, 100 million, $2 million;
February 12, 100 million, $3.5 million; February 13, 100 million, $6
million. Nandoon ka ba noong diniliver (deliver) iyong perang ito?
MR. PALMARES. Nasa bahay lang po ako, sir, hinahatid ko lang
po iyong ano, iyong cash po, iyong pera.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hinahatid mo siya-MR. PALMARES. Doon po sa kay Mr. Bautista.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mula sa--?
MR. PALMARES.
bahay nila.
SEN. AQUINO. So, iyong perang ito nasa opisina?
52
pera?
MR. PALMARES.
Concon.
SEN. AQUINO. Ah, okay. So, si Concon tatawagan ka, Iyong
perang nasa opisina dalhin mo sa bahay namin, tama?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
53
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
pera?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kasi sa iyong affidavit, nakalagay iyong
beneficiary kung kanino napunta?
MR. PALMARES.
Xu.
Okay.
mo matuturo?
MR. PALMARES.
54
AQUINO.
Hindi
mo
talaga
nakita
personally
na
55
Okay.
Hindi mo
mukha niya, sir, kasi nakilala ko lang siya, sir, sa TV noong sa balita
nakita ko lang.
56
57
58
59
60
SEN. AQUINO.
may
SEN. AQUINO. Ito iyong hundred ten million pesos and three
million dollars?
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hindi mo rin nakita kung kaninong kotse
iyon? Hindi pamilyar sa iyo o pamilyar sa iyo iyong mga kotse?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko po pamilyar, sir. Parang mga dark
color, sir. Madilim kasi, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mark, maibang usapan. Ilang years ka
na nagtatrabaho sa Philrem?
MR. PALMARES. Seven years na po.
SEN. AQUINO.
Seven years.
61
SEN.
AQUINO.
Iyong
ganitong
klaseng
transaction
ba
ganitong transaction?
MR. PALMARES. Iyon po ang sabi, sir, ingatan kasi malaking
pera. Kaya syempre, sir, nag-iingat din.
SEN. AQUINO.
62
MR. PALMARES. Wala po, sir. Ako lang po. Pag ako po iyong
messenger, siya po iyong driver lang talaga.
SEN. AQUINO. So kayo iyong tandem?
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
SEN. AQUINO. So kumbaga, in your seven years, ngayon lang
nagkaroon ng mga transakyon na ganito kalaking pera ang diniliver
(deliver) sa mga casino at ni-release mula sa bahay ng mga Bautista?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
63
Pag
Bihira.
millionbihirang-bihira iyan?
MR. PALMARES. Iyan po talaga, sir, iyong pinakamalaki ko na
hong transaction na naranasan, sir, sa Philrem.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay, sige.
64
65
Sa Cityland din?
Okay.
doon?
66
MR. PALMARES.
Weikang Xu.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Weikang Xu.
Weikang Xu?
MR. PALMARES. Ako po, opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Itong 2-9-16 Weikang Xu, okay. Tapos ikaw
rin naglagay ng pangalan mo dito? Mark iyong nakalagay.
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pero wala pang pirma noong
MR. PALMARES.
magpapa-receive po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mga anong oras ito nangyari?
67
Gabi.
nangyari?
MR. PALMARES. Noong tapos ko pong ibigay noong February
9, kumain po muna ako doon, nagkuwento-kuwento doon sa mga
kasambahay, mga driver doon na driver noong ano. Kumain po ako.
Pagkatapos po, mga siguro magna-nine po iyon, paglabas ko, pauwi na
ako, nakita ko na po na nilo-load na nila iyong
THE CHAIRMAN. Nine oclock ng gabi?
MR. PALMARES. Gabi po. Nilo-load na po nila iyong pera.
THE CHAIRMAN.
ayon sa kuwento mo, mayroon kang 100 million at saka three million
na pick up sa Bautista na bahay, February 9?
MR. WONG. Opo, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Sa kuwento ng Philrem, both of you
have $3 million but then sa pesos, theres a 10 million difference.
Okay.
68
At any rate, noong pinick up (pick up) ninyo po iyong pera, mga
anong oras iyon nangyari?
MR. WONG. Gabi na po iyon, siguro mga 10:00 o 11:00 na.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ten or 11:00?
MR. WONG. Ng gabi po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Oo. Mag-isa ka lang?
MR. WONG. Hindi po. Five or six kamifive.
THE CHAIRMAN. Five or six.
MR. WONG.
69
Okay.
Mark, itong February 11, 12, 13, ikaw ba ang nag-deliver nito?
MR. PALMARES.
Opo.
Okay.
February 10?
MR. PALMARES. February 10 po, mga ganyan po, mga/mpm
70
71
Thank
you.
MR. BAUTISTA. So when we get the amount of the delivery for
the day, we would tell Maia that this would be the delivery amounts
and they would come.
THE CHAIRMAN.
No.
were the one who told Kim Wong to go to the house and pick up the
You told Mr. Kim Wong.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, all the instructions came from Maia.
THE CHAIRMAN. The instructions to whom?
MR. BAUTISTA. For the cash portion for the pick up.
THE CHAIRMAN. The instructions to you, you mean? Pakiklaro
lang. Pakiklaro lang.
72
THE CHAIRMAN. So Ms. Maia was the one who told you that
Mr. Kim Wong is coming?
MR. BAUTISTA. Well, Weikang Xu, sir. But the interpreter was
Mr. Kim Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO. So just for the record. Mr. Bautista, hindi nyo
po tinawagan si Mr. Wong?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Regarding any of these transactions?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Pero kasama siya doon sa iba, you were saying,
hindi ba?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mr. Wong, pakiulit lang po?
MR. WONG. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Are you saying na si Mr. Bautista mismo yung
tumawag sa iyo na pick up-in na iyong pera on February 9?
MR. WONG. Nagkausap po kami sa phone. Ang sabi niya may
ganito raw pera na kunin na lang sa bahay.
73
Bautista?
MR. WONG. Puwede po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN. Are you asking for the records? Yes.
74
Okay.
instructions sa inyo?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Hindi.
Okay.
75
everything to Philrem.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
76
Senator Bam.
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong, doon sa mga instructions regarding
pagkuha noong cash, tinawagan ka ba ni Ms. Deguito?
MR. WONG. Hindi po.
SEN. AQUINO.
77
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
So sumasangayon ka sa testimony ni
78
79
Their numbers.
Iyong pagkakaalam mo na
numbers nila.
And we will keep it confidential, Mr. Chairman/alicc
80
SEN. AQUINO.
Chairman, for privacy sake. But at least alam natin what were talking
about.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Well keep it confidential.
SEN. AQUINO.
81
Okay.
Mayroon po.
Kukunin ko po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hindi namanKung puwede nyo pong
ipakuha and can you inform the Committee right away para lang
sigurado tayo sa mga numero ninyo. Pag nag-cross reference tayo
MR. WONG. Bukas ko po ibibigay ko po. Isi-seal ko po.
SEN. AQUINO. All right. Thank you, Mr. Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. The counsels of the three parties, can
you just prepare the written consent to Globe having access to the
records for purposes of the Committee?
particular dates only for the time that we are talking about.
82
submission.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes. That is correct, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. That is correct. Okay.
Mr. Kim Wong was not there, Mr. Kim Wong was not there.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Wala si Mr. Kim Wong. Ang nandoon langSi
Ms. Sheba ba nandoon nung pickup? Pinick up (pick up) iyong pera,
hindi ba?
Salud.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sorry. Ako po nasa loob ng bahay.
83
84
THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, okay then. He was not there on the 12th
and the 13th.
Well, we wont ask Mr. Kim Wong because in his storyline, there
is no pickup on the 12th and the 13th. So, 12th and 13th. On the
11th, Mr. Kim Wong was there?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
So, on the 12th and the 13th, Mr. Kim Wong was not there to
pick up the money.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So, who picked up the money?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, the same group of Weikang Xu.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Weikang Xu was in your house?
MR. BAUTISTA. The same group of people who would pick up
everyday.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Weikang Xu was in your house?
MR. BAUTISTA. The Chinese people, yes, sir. Same group of
people, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. How many were they?
MR. BAUTISTA. Five, six.
85
kayo nag-usap?
86
MR. BAUTISTA.
another. I just point it out, they picked it up, reached the paper, they
signed it, they gave it back. Thats it.
THE CHAIRMAN. Hundreds of millions of pesos and millions of
dollars tapos sign language lang kayo? Okay ito, ah.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, this was towards the tail end so everything
went smoothly in the beginning so I didnt see any problem.
THE CHAIRMAN. No verbal exchange whatsoever.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, I dont speak Chinese.
THE CHAIRMAN.
whatsoever.
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. They knew that they were there to get
something. I knew they were there to pick up something so we were
in agreement.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Concon, did this really happen?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr. Kim Wong, sinabi nila nandoon ka daw nung February 11 sa
bahay ni Mr. Bautista to pick up P100 million and $2 million.
Kino-
confirm mo po ba ito?
87
Okay.
between the stories, because Mr. Kim Wong is saying he was not there
and Mr. Concon, youre saying he was there.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mark, ano ang pangalan ng uncle mo, iyong
tito mo, tiyo mo na driver, ano ang first name?
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Huh?
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ronilo o Norlito.
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ronilo. Okay.
Ms. Salud, who is Norlito Palmares?
88
He is listed as a
attention was his address here is 392 Columbia St.Would you care to
comment on thiswhich is the house where Mr. Palmares lives which
is the house of your father.
MS. BAUTISTA.
stayano din siya, stay-in din siya dati tapos lumipat na siya ng San
Juan, I think San Juan is the area.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
89
THE CHAIRMAN.
there is also as far as the phone records that were asking you to
produce hanggang February 14 ang gagawin natin na request. Okay?
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
February 14.
Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask, as I understand these transactions started
with the opening of accounts on May 13, 2015, five accounts in RCBC.
They were dormant until February 5 this year. Then funds flowed from
New York to these RCBC accounts. And later on these funds moved
from those accounts to Philrem. And Philrem distributed these amounts
to different receivers. Thats the way I understood the whole process.
Now, Ms. Deguito, how long did you hold the $81 million in the
accounts that you opened on 13 May, 2015 when the monies were
transferred from New York to those accounts? How long did this stay in
your accounts?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, when it came in, it was credited by
settlements department.
90
SEN. ENRILE. No, I am just asking you how long? How many
days?
MS. DEGUITO. Until February 9. So, two banking days po, Your
Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Two banking days.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Okay. So, after two banking days, they were no
longer within the control of RCBC, correct?
MS. DEGUITO. I am sorry, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Correct?
MS. DEGUITO. I am sorry, Your Honor, puwede pong paulit?
SEN. ENRILE.
equivalent.
SEN. ENRILE. I am just asking you if its true or not.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Its true?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Okay. Then where did they go, to Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
91
February 5?
MS. DEGUITO. February 9, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Nine and 10?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. So, they were gone after that?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. And they went to Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. And how long did this money stay with Philrem?
Ms. Bautista, how long did you hold these funds, until all of it
was gone from your control? How many days?
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, from February 5 to February 13.
SEN. ENRILE. From?
MS. BAUTISTA. From February 5 hanggang February 13 po.
SEN. ENRILE. You have control over this fund from February 5?
92
MS. BAUTISTA.
mo sa RCBC? Sa bahay?
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po, nasa RCBC account po namin. Nasa
RCBC account po namin.
SEN. ENRILE. In what currency?
93
MS. BAUTISTA.
pesos.
SEN. ENRILE. In RCBC account?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. And then from there you draw?
MS. BAUTISTA.
94
95
96
MS. BAUTISTA.
Opo, sir.
figures.
MS. BAUTISTA. Two billiontwo, nine, eight, five, zero, zero,
five, zero, zero, zero point 14 (2,985,005,000.14).
SEN. ENRILE. So that is the
MS. BAUTISTA. Iyon po iyong na-convert sa pesos.
SEN. ENRILE. So with a balance of?
97
Okay.
98
daily
SEN. ENRILE. What was the average kung iba-iba?
MS. BAUTISTA. Forty-seven, seventy-twoaverage.
99
every day. You are a money changer, you must know that.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, ang average po is 47.65.
SEN. ENRILE. Now, if you convert $18 million to that average,
what was it in pesos?
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, 857.7 million po.
SEN. ENRILE.
Okay.
handled by you.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Dumaan po sa amin iyong pera lahat.
SEN. ENRILE. The whole amount passed through your hands.
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, sir. Galing po sa bangko, galingkami
po ang nag-ano sa mga casino.
SEN. ENRILE. And you were the ones who distributed it to the
beneficiaries supposedly.
100
mga numbers pero nung kinolekta nung Page natin, wala namang
ibinigay. So Id just like to confirm.
Ms. Deguito, kailan niyo isusulat iyong mga telephone numbers
na mayroon sa inyo?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, kasi iyong isang telepono ko nasa bahay.
But I texted na para i-send sa akin iyong mga numbers, and I will give
it to you later.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
So today?
101
No, no.
photocopy.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Picture.
Chairman
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, sir. Yes, please.
SEN. ENRILE. who this Weikang Xu is and how often was he
in the country and whether he was in the county at the time material
to this incident?
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Mr. Senator. There is already a reply of
the Immigration.
SEN. ENRILE. What was their reply?
THE CHAIRMAN. Nandiyan at saka saI think your office has
been furnished a copy.
102
Pero
103
nandoon. And I think the lawyers will be preparing the waiver for the
phone records, if we can kindly receive that today as well?
Okay, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN.
mike, please?
MR. CALLEJA. Mr. Chairman, we will just prepare the waiver,
even tomorrow. Well prepare it in the office.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chairman, just a minute. According to this,
this is a communication of the
THE CHAIRMAN. Well get back to you.
Okay, Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE.
Foreign Affairs to the Committee, and it says that the Philippine Consul
General in Chongqing, China informed the departmentthat the post
has not issued a visa to Mr. Weikang Xu.
104
will
read
into
the
record
what
was
written
in
this
Kagawaran
ng
Ugnayang
Panlabas,
Office
of
the
105
Executive Department.
Senator?
106
Yes.
Senator?
SEN. ENRILE. Huh?
THE CHAIRMAN. What is the specific request?
SEN. ENRILE. I leave it to the Chair. You are confronted with
the documentwhere the Chair is confronted with the document
saying that there is no such visa issued.
I see.
The Bureau of
On April 1, 2015, he
107
to explain something.
Director General.
THE DIRECTOR GENERAL.
108
109
Correct.
110
MR. DE JESUS. Hindi po pumasok ito-SEN. ENRILE. What are you going to do? In fact.../smv
111
SEN. ENRILE. In fact, I do not know whether you can say that
this is fake because this is a free-flowing signature.
MR. DE JESUS. This is not my signature, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Whose signature is it?
MR. DE JESUS. Thats what I do not know, sir.
SEN. ENRILE. But if I am a judge, we appear before a judge on
this witness, he is more credible because, in fact, his statements are
spontaneous and he pointed to you as being there. How can you say
that?
And then you had a signature and its a free-flowing including
your initial. Nobody can forge that kind ofcan do that forgery.
MR. DE JESUS. This is not my signature. In fact, I am
submitting to this honorable Senate the following document that will
show my real signature.
SEN. ENRILE. Yes, but the question is, as an attorney, who has
custody of your notarial book to be able to enter Document No. 52, in
its Page 12, in its Book XLV 111, Series of 2016? Who has custody,
hindi ba ikaw?
MR. DE JESUS. Wala po akong custody nito.
SEN. ENRILE. Huh?
112
113
114
115
SEN.
OSMEA.
So,
its
the
branch
that
makes
the
recommendation.
MR. L. TAN. Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.
recommendation?
MR. L. TAN.
Yes.
It depends
L.
TAN.
Well,
in
most
cases,
Your
Honor,
the
recommendation
SEN. OSMEA. No. Mr. Tan, I am talking about this particular
case.
Ms. Deguito, did you recommend the filing of an STR?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, the process in the bank normally
SEN. OSMEA. Did you recommend the filing?
116
those like you will recommend for an STR because iyon nga po may
proseso siya na the following day siya niri-reveal lahat, nasa isang file
siya, may system siya, sir. So, nandoon po lahat kung ipa-file mo siya
ng CTR or STR.
117
Hindi.
Its a
office?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, sir.
office who extracts everything and sends it to the branch through the
system and then we will do
SEN. OSMEA. No, no, no.
118
she knows
119
SEN. OSMEA.
120
SEN. OSMEA. All right. So, Ms. Deguito, why did you not file a
suspicious transaction report in this particular case?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, it is not within my duty to file. It is
my duty to approve the filing of the STR.
SEN. OSMEA. No, maam. It is very clear here that the front
liners
are the branch managers. Who will file if not the branch
manager? Who? The bishop? The barangay captain? Hindi naman nila
alam iyon.
MS. DEGUITO.
that files.
SEN. OSMEA.
knows your customer. They never met any of these five characters
who supposedly opened those accounts. You were the only one. And
under the know your customer, you cannot expect Mr. Tan or Mr. Raul
Tan to know your customer. You are the one who traders a suspicious
transaction report. And in this case, you did not, am I correct? Is the
committee correct in assuming that you never filed the suspicious
transaction report in this particular--?
MS. DEGUITO.
121
MS. DEGUITO.
that you sent in filing a suspicious? What does it look like physically?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA. Is it a piece of paper that you fill out and send
to head office or is it merely an encoding of an electronic message
to?
MS. DEGUITO.
122
you dont have the line function here. I think it is Mr. Raul Tan who
was head of treasury who should be able to answer this.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir. The question pertains as to who filed the
report, Your Honor?
SEN. OSMEA. Opo.
MR. R. TAN.
February 10.
SEN. OSMEA. Ano po ang tawag diyan, SRO?
MR. R. TAN. SCRO.
SEN. OSMEA. What does it stand for?
MR. R. TAN. Senior customer relationship officer.
SEN. OSMEA. Senior customer relationship officer. Who would
that be?
MR. R. TAN. Ms. Torres.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Torres.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir. But actually excuse me, Your HonorIt
was actually the head office who instructed SCRO to file the STR and
they were delayed, Your Honor.
123
SEN. OSMEA.
124
SEN. OSMEA.
suspicious
instructing us to file the STR. It was sent past 9 oclock in the evening.
It was read the following banking day which is February 9.
SEN. OSMEA. On February 9. And what time did you read it?
MS. DEGUITO.
asked her to do the filing already because it was really her duty to do
the filing.
SEN. OSMEA. And you filed it on February 10?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, can she answer for that?
SEN. OSMEA. Yes, Ms. Torres.
MS. TORRES.
125
system, doon po namin ini-input iyong mga details. Saka hindi lang po
siya basta-basta ipa-file. Marami po siyang kailangan. So hindi po
isang upuan matatapos mo siya.
SEN. OSMEA.
asked them, you directed them to file an STR on February 5 and they
said it was too late for them to read the message. On February 9, the
first working day, your systems were reportedly down. Is that correct?
MR. R. TAN. Based on the record, its not, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. It was not?
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Torres, bakit mo sinasabi na sira. Nandito
naman, sinasagot ni Mr. Raul Tan na hindi naman sira?
MS. TORRES.
126
MS. TORRES.
evening. My question is, when did she receive it? You must have had
acknowledgment.
MR. R. TAN.
was sent in the evening when the request for hold was done and
then
127
SEN. OSMEA. Alam mo, you can send something blind but the
person who is supposed to be the recipient does not acknowledge
receipt, then you cannot assume that he read it.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. When did you learn that she had read while she
said
MR. R. TAN.
February 9.
SEN. OSMEA. Early morning February 9.
MR. R. TAN. Thats what she said.
SEN. OSMEA. But she said thathow could she read it when
she said the systems were down?
MR. R. TAN.
No, no. Sir, not the system but she read the
128
MS. TORRES. Sir, ang sinasabi kong down is the Base60, hindi
po iyong email.
SEN. OSMEA. Basic?
MS. TORRES. The system for STR. Iyon po yung offline.
SEN. OSMEA.
129
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. So there was a reason, Mr. Raul Tan.
What was the reason you asked them to file an STR? Do you give
reasons or you just give a preemptory order and say, Mag-file ka ng
STR?
MR. R. TAN.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right.
Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
SEN. OSMEA.
130
SEN. OSMEA.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
were seven.
SEN. OSMEA.
Seven.
131
SEN.
OSMEA.
You
decided
to
have
the
Suspicious
File
our AMLC department with the branch, but there was difficulty in
getting the information and the filings from the branch itself.
SEN. OSMEA. Why?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Incomplete information.
We
dont really know but there were many calls that were made to them
and it took a long time and on the 11th, the information came in and
the committee met and it was filed, Your Honor.
really from the branch but we met on the 11th and filed on that date.
SEN. OSMEA.
So thats February 5,
you received the request from New York and from Bangladesh and
then you made your move on February 11.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
132
Why did
not the Federal Reserve Bank of New York file a complaint or ask the
bank to stop payment?
But in
133
not
Chairman.
SEN. OSMEA.
Bangladesh Bank who owned the money which made the complaint,
but their bankers in New York never made a complaint.
MR. ESPENILLA.
134
SEN. OSMEA.
you say that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York should have also
made representations with the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas? We cant
put that into the law but we just want to know what the protocol is.
MR. ESPENILLA.
It isnt like we
are trying to find fault, but again we are trying to trace the process. It
would seem strange to me that almost a billion dollars would have
been taken out of an account with the Fed New York and they wouldnt
move on it.
135
buhay ninyo.
All right.
You
just react when you hear of something. You dont actively seek. You
dont tell, say, people at treasury, If theres anything suspicious, let
us know also.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Well, Your Honor, we do. Our
compliance office does regular lectures and advises the entire bank
and all the units of what their obligations are under the AMLC laws. So
its proactive in that sense, and then it depends on the feedback that it
gets from the system, our computerized system as well as from the
branches or the different units. But we review the inputs that are
placed in the system on a daily basis to see if there are any
transactions which can be deemed suspicious. So we also can tell the
branch, for example, if they fail to do so like this instance although the
head office told them. But we can tell them, You need to file
Suspicious Transactions Report given what we see unless you can
justify. And then if there are arguments, Your Honor, we decidethe
committee decides.
136
SEN. OSMEA.
differently?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Well, first thing I would have
done differently is to have made sure that the branch manager would
not have made so many decisions given thatthe way that it turned
out.
SEN. OSMEA.
everybody thinks that the branch manager does not have so much
power in a bank. But the truth is the branch manager is the CEO of
their branch.
cts
137
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
we know now, seeing what we see now, what changes then are you
prepared to implement?
MS.
FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
independent verification.
Yes.
Its
really
the
138
independent verification.
Raul Tan?
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
Yes.
Sir, were working on centralizing some of the
functions from the branch to the head office. Thats one. Second, we
are
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA.
139
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
The hold
similar request in the future, what can happen is the head office will
now initiate a hold centrally on the accounts or the account. And then
the verification as to the validity of that remittance into the account
will now be handled separately from the business unit in the
verification on KYC and all the validity of the transactions will be
handled outside of the branch.
SEN. OSMEA.
isang noticelets say, again from the Federal Reserve Bank of New
York or from Bangladesh Bank saying Stop payment, thats a spurious
transaction, you would now be able to move immediately on the same
day that you received the notice.
MR. R. TAN.
centrally hold the account when we get the request and then do an
independent verification separate from the branch.
SEN. OSMEA.
140
MR. R. TAN.
Si
Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
Immediately.
Well, upon verification ng request and
head.
SEN. OSMEA.
141
MR. R. TAN.
The compliance
are composed of the business unit heads and theyre not front liners,
they really will come after the fact.
committee and its the anti-money laundering committee for us, Your
Honor, would be to determine if this is proper account for an STR, for a
suspicious transactions report.
We also weigh.
We dont want to
curious.
142
everything.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
None.
reviewing everything.
SEN. OSMEA.
143
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
everything.
SEN. OSMEA.
month.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
on me now.
Committee.
SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
about Jupiter.
How are the forex transactions or the forex deposits or
remittances into Jupiter compared to the other branches, 470 add(?)
branches that RCBC has?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
SEN. OSMEA.
probably not.
144
SEN. OSMEA.
SEN. OSMEA.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.
SEN. OSMEA.
account?
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
SEN. OSMEA.
business transaction?
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
145
SEN. OSMEA.
has no business connections with Mr. William Go, select Mr. William
Gos account?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. DEGUITO.
146
MS. DEGUITO.
At isinauli niya.
Trading.
SEN. OSMEA. So, nagbi-BA siya?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
147
SEN. OSMEA. All right. How long has that account existed,
the peso account.
MS. DEGUITO. Since 2014mga third quarter of 2014 po.
SEN. OSMEA. So, less than two years.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Was it an active account?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Is Mr. William Go here?
He didnt turn up today.
All right. Sabihin mo nga sa amin kung bakit sinabi ni Mr. Kim
Wong na hindi ho siya nag-direct na ideposit mo lahat sa account ni
Mr. William Go. Sinasabi mo, siya ho ang nag-utos sa iyo. Who do
you expect the Committee to believe.
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, Im sorry. Ulit po. Sorry po.
SEN. OSMEA. Alam mo iyong may-ari ng account iyong apat.
Theoretically, if they exist, the owner of the four accountswhatever
their name wasshould have been the ones
instructions.
Wong?
MS. DEGUITO.
just
like
any
other,
Mr.
Wong
acted
as
their
authorized
148
representative
instructions.
SEN. OSMEA. Is that allowed? Ms. Macel, you can get your
pantsuit off if
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
And, in fact,
Your Honor, in her letter to us she categorically told us that it was Mr.
Lagrosas himself who gave her instructions on the transfer of funds
to William Go. So she is contradicting her own written statement to
the bank, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. May we have a copy of that statement, please?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, Your Honor. We will give
it to you.
SEN. OSMEA. Yes.
Ms. Deguito, bakit mo sinabi kay Atty. Fernandez na si Lagrosas
mismo ang nagbigay ng utos sa iyo.
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, during that time it was a show cause memo
that she was mentioning. Noong panahon po na iyon hindi pa po ako
handang magsalita kung sino po iyong mga referral ng account, sino
ba iyong mga tao na nakausap ko, kaya po ganoon ang naging advice
ng abogado.
149
SEN. OSMEA.
Lagrosas made the balance inquiry, pre-signed forms were sent to the
branch for the withdrawal and transfer
accompanied with a note with
of funds.
seeing this, I was initially confused because I was not aware of any
connection between the holders of the subject
Centurytex did not
William Go to make
accounts and
Hence,
I called Mr.
I was
150
MS. DEGUITO.
Mr. Go. So, those were the two people she spoke with, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. So, it was Mr. Lagrosas who instructed you to
transfer the funds to Mr. Go.
MS. DEGUITO.
memo.
the show cause I wasnt ready to name the personalities behind those
referred accounts.
SEN. OSMEA.
It doesnt
matter.
name Mr. Kim Wong, that is what you are saying, so you would lie and
say it was Mr. Lagrosas who gave you the order, ganoon ba?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
151
So, you
152
company.
MS. DEGUITO. If I could recommend a remitting company kasi
nga there will be transfers to
SEN. OSMEA.
Inaamin mo ikaw
ang nag-recommend sa
Philrem.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
any
Wala.
153
MS. DEGUITO.
Bakit hindi
mo?
MS. DEGUITO. Ang concern po kasi, hindi ba, iyong bank rate
versus the rate of Philrem is far better. So, magkaiba po siya ng rate.
SEN. OSMEA. Philrem changed $61 million with RCBC. How
can Philrems rate be better then?
MS. DEGUITO. Iyon po kasi ang pagkakaalam ko. At saka po
kaya ko rin
know each
Bautista?
MR. WONG. Medyo matagal na ho pero wala ho kami negosyo.
SEN. OSMEA. Not even
MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam, sir, iyong Philrem.
SEN. OSMEA. Hindi mo alam na
154
No business
with Mr.
Opo.
Tapos sinabi ko po
si Michael
Bautista.../admasicap
155
orPero kilala niya si Concon so I had to tell him that na its Concons
business.
SEN OSMEA.
Kim Wong? Mr. Kim Wong, iyong sinabi ni Ms. Deguito, Gamitin natin
ang Philrem, anong sinabi mo?
MR. WONG. Hindi po kami nagkausap noon, paano ko ho siya
makilala? Dumating na ho siya sa Solaire, sabi niya, Ako si Concon,
sabi niya, ng Philrem. Ano bang Philrem? Tinanong ho sa akin ng
treasury ng Solaire, Philrem. Hindi ko ho alam.
SEN OSMEA.
Deguito?
MR. WONG.
Teka muna.
156
Okay.
Explain ng ano?
cash
157
SEN OSMEA.
MR. WONG.
Sino?
Iyong si Ding ho at saka si Gao.
Si Gao ang
nagsabi
SEN OSMEA.
Hindi.
Eighty plus.
Siya mismo?
158
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
Tanong
ninyo sa kanya.
SEN
OSMEA.
Concon,
Mr.
Bautista,
who
made
the
He did.
MS. BAUTISTA.
contact with Maia to bring the funds there thats why it was my
delivery in Solaire.
All right.
159
was delivered to him. But we want to know--Mr. Kim Wong must have
known that you were coming to deliver the cash so, therefore, Ms.
Deguito told Kim Wong that you were going to deliver the cash to Kim
Wong at Solaire. Is that correct, Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, Im sorry.
SEN OSMEA.
Wong doon po sa Solaire, you were the one who made that
arrangement obviously?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, hindi po.
SEN OSMEA.
arrangement?
MS. DEGUITO. Magkakilala po sila, hindi lang po siguro alam
ni Sir
SEN OSMEA.
160
SEN OSMEA.
instruct sa kanya.
galing sa iyo?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, hindi ko po alam, pero wala po kasi akong
instruction na ganoon.
SEN OSMEA.
SEN OSMEA.
ko
pera?
161
MS. DEGUITO.
MS. DEGUITO.
lalabas from the branch out of the $81 million are those of the
Bloomberry and Eastern Hawaii. And everything else, ang instruction
na was just to convert everything to peso and I was just waiting for
that peso to come back to the branch.
SEN OSMEA.
All right.
hindi ba?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN OSMEA.
Hindi po.
From the bank branch of Philrem doon po sa
162
SEN OSMEA.
All right.
Okay.
163
SEN OSMEA.
deposit it back?
SEN OSMEA.
opened December.
SEN OSMEA.
164
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
in her reply she said on December 8, 2015, I again received the call
from Mr. Lagrosas requesting me to set-up additional peso accounts
for all of them.
SEN OSMEA.
MS. DEGUITO.
165
166
MS. DEGUITO. Opo, iyun din naman po iyong sabi niya. As per
instruction iyung Chinese na iyon, ise-set up siya ng pesos accounts,
iyong mga limang ibinigay din sa aking noong una.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Now, was this a savings account?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir, savings account.
SEN. OSMEA. So who held the passbooks?
MS. DEGUITO. I delivered it to Solaire noong December din po.
SEN. OSMEA. You delivered it to Mr. Kim Wong?
MS. DEGUITO.
Bautista?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, when I delivered in Solaire.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. He was with Mr.?
MS. BAUTISTA. Mr. Kim Wong and other Chinese
SEN. OSMEA. Totoo ba iyan, Mr. Kim Wong?
167
akin, kailangan may recipient ho. Iyung 80 million plus 20 million, may
recipient ho. So sabi ko kay Gao, Gao, sino ba ang player mo? Tapos
si Ding, sabi niya, Sige, ibigay mo na sa akin iyong cash hundred
million first, i-deliver dito raw sa Midas.
168
Ding Zhise naglaro sa Solaire, siya ang head tapos puwede ibigay
maski kanino iyung pera. Pero siya po iyung nagko-command, iyung
pera po.
SEN. OSMEA. So malaking player itong si Weikang Xu.
MR. WONG. Hindi po. Natalo ho siya sa Midasmay record ho
sa Midas. Natalo yata siya ng mga 70 million.
SEN. OSMEA. Pesos, dollars?
MR. WONG. Pesos po. May record ho sa amin iyung April, May,
ganoon po, sa Midas po.
169
makabawi pa. Pero puwede niyang hindi ibigay kumbaga inilagay lang
po sa pangalan niya po.
SEN. OSMEA. You know, the Committee finds a lot of holes in
all your testimonies and so we will have to continue this. Well
suspend. Well continue this.
By the way, we asked Ms. Salud Bautista to identify your chief
accountant and you still have not identified and the Committee
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, Im so sorry, but my accountant
already resigned.
Im the president of the company and my husband and I
SEN. OSMEA. If we dont have the name of your accountant,
Im going to recommend that the Committee cite you for contempt.
You will receive a letter showing cause why you should not be cited for
contempt. The Committee has the power to force that information.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, we are the owners of the company and we
are accountable for the actions that our company has done.
170
SEN. OSMEA.
Of
course, youve got a top-notch lawyer helping you there so you can
ask him. Hell be here to protect your interest but the Committee will
be sending you a show cause order why you should not be cited for
contempt. And at the next hearing, if youd still dont have the name,
bring your overnight bag already.
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Compaero.
Senator Enrile, would you like to propound anymore questions?
No more.
By the way, it is the birthday of our Chairman, Senator
Guingona, so he said he would like to suspend this hearing to give you
all a chance to go up to his office and have lunch with him. [Laughter]
Of course, he doesnt expect you. But lets all surprise him and
ask him for some free food.
Thank you all for coming and we will let you know when the next
hearing will be called to order but you have been placed on record. All
right.
Thank you.
171
/mhb
172