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Technical Discussions
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UT for Duplex Stainless
steel welds
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01:58 Nov19-2012

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Dear all,

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UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

27661 views

Jianjun Wu
Engineering,
NDE
China,
Joined Nov
2012

Could some one give me some ideas for UT examination for Duplex Stainless
Steel welds, especially regarding test block check, site implementation and
personnel qualification? Many thanks in advance.

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20

13:21 Nov19-2012

Ed Ginzel
R & D, Materials
Research
Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov
1998

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 01:58 Nov-19-2012 (Opening).

Jianjun, There is some guidance on the methods in the DNV document OS F101
in the Appendix D. DNV OS F101 is available at
http://exchange.dnv.com/publishing/Codes/ToC_edition.asp#Offshore_Standards

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936

18:22 Nov19-2012

David
Mackintosh
Engineering,
Acuren Group
Inc.,
Canada,
Joined Feb
2011

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 01:58 Nov-19-2012 (Opening).

Jianjun, there is also general guidance in ASME BPVC Section V Article 4 T-451,
which recommends a weld mock-up with reference reflectors, procedure and
personnel demonstrations per T-150(a), and, in difficult cases, a trial of L-wave
methods in lieu of S-wave.

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In my company, procedures for UT in coarse-grained materials must be approved

by a level III before use.
David

76

01:09 Nov20-2012

Mario Talarico
NDT Inspector,
Italy,
Joined May
2010
286

01:45 Nov20-2012

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to David Mackintosh at 18:22 Nov-19-2012 .

I indicate in addition to the previous ISO-EN 22825:2006 , Non-destructive
testing of welds - Ultrasonic testing - Testing of welds in austenitic steels and
nickel-based alloys and ASTM B775 Standard Specication for General
Requirements for Nickel and Nickel Alloy Welded Pipe. There are also specific
companies whose purpose is to make some standards compatible with the
materials austenitic and duplex, for example MESC (Shell) with ISO 9765Submerged Arc-Welded Steel Tubes for Pressure Purposes - Ultrasonic Testing of
the Weld Seam for the Detection of Longitudinal and/or Transverse
Imperfections.
Depending on the probes used and executive procedures the application of rules
in a particular case can be problematic.
I practiced all these standards. DNV standard seems to me the better thought
for the purpose.
greetings
mario

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

In Reply to Mario Talarico at 01:09 Nov-20-2012 .
Many thanks to all above. Thanks for your kind support and guidances!

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Post Reply

Jianjun Wu
Engineering,
NDE
China,
Joined Nov
2012
20

If the signal to noise ratio is reasonable(in Chinese JB standard, this value

should be greater than 10 dB), could shear wave probe be used in such kind of
testing?

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Normally, half skip technique is applied. Scanning carried out from both sides
and both surface of the welds. However, sometimes such scanning is limited by
site configuration and coud just be performed from one surface. Maybe
discontinuities buried near test surface are missed in testing. In this case, is it
possible to use full skip technique in test (not longitudinal angle probe)? Of
course, location indication should be corrected. I know the sound beam will be
distorted by the columnar structure, fused bevel area and coarsed grain of the
welds.
Thanks again for all of you.

07:28 Nov20-2012

Jon Wallis
NDT Inspector,
Netherlands,
Joined Feb
2010
593

07:37 Nov20-2012

massimo
carminati
Consultant,
AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni
Srl,
Italy,
Joined Apr
2007

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 01:45 Nov-20-2012 .

You should be using full skip from both sides of the weld to perform a complete
examination especially if the cap is still present.
Your problem with standard shear wave examination is, as you have indicated,
whether sound is transferred through the weld material and at the required
angle. Test pieces and trials are the only way to verify this. If you manufacture a
test piece with side drilled holes, you will need to have the test piece welded, as
with a production weld, and the holes need drilling at points where the
ultrasound travels through the weld, i.e. in the weld body and beyond it.
I don't know what Chinese personnel qualifications require, but European and
American personnel qualifications are not material specific so you can examine
and evaluate any materials with your level 2 or 3. It might be that a clients own
specification or contract demands require specific training.

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

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Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 01:45 Nov-20-2012 .

First of all, you should check which are the applicable codes (what is the
component to be tested, process piping, pipeline, pressure vessel) and then
establish which are the sensitivity requirements and calibration blocks design
accordingly. Then acceptance criteria and from there you should start developing
your inspection technique. All the suggestions make sense and a good guideline
for procedure development is 22825. For near surface defects use creeping wave
probes with long focus as explained in a very recent topic.

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580

09:27 Nov20-2012

Jianjun Wu
Engineering,
NDE
China,
Joined Nov
2012
20

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to massimo carminati at 07:37 Nov-20-2012 .

Thanks Ed, David, Mario, Joe and Massimo for your valuable experience and
recommendations.

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I have downloaded recommended articles for reference.

Now the reference blocks corresponding to the actual welding process and
configuration are now on manufacturing. Two kinds of artificial reflectors are
arranged in the block. One is side drilled hole (3mm, 0.25T, 0.5T, 0.75T depth)
and the other is 60 V groove (0.5, 1, 2mm depth). Both are made with two set
in base material and fused welds respectively.
Accordingly, two DAC curves will be constructed for each artificial reflectors. One
is aimed at the area near the bevel and the other is in welds.
Regarding Probe selection, now both longitudinal angle probe and shear wave
angle probe will be used in testing because the thickness is just 12mm. Affect of
the grain size is not so significant. In addition. creep probe will be introduced
into site inspection.
Regarding the implementation, if any suspicious indications found in testing, RT
will be utilized to verify the actual nature. I think, at the beginning of the
project, this will do much help to site inspector.
Thanks again for everyone's enthusiastic support.

11:56 Nov20-2012

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Mario Talarico at 01:09 Nov-20-2012 .

Dear colleages,

Udo
Schlengermann

in general, if reference is made to standards it should be checked before mailing,

that the information is actual, otherwise the readers discuss on the base of
obsolete documents or even cannot find the recommended documents anymore.

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Consultant, Standards
Consulting,
Germany,
Joined Nov
1998
161

In this case: EN ISO 22825 has been completely revised. ISO 9765 doesn't exist
anymore, it is replaced by ISO 10893-11. Actual version of ASTM B775 is from
2008.
ISO 22825:2012
Non-destructive testing of welds - Ultrasonic testing - Testing of welds in
austenitic steels and nickel-based alloys.

ISO 10893-11:2011
Non-destructive testing of steel tubes Part 11: Automated ultrasonic testing of
the weld seam of welded steel tubes for the detection of longitudinal and/or
transverse imperfections.
ASTM B775 - 2008
Standard Specification for General Requirements for Nickel and Nickel Alloy
Welded Pipe.
Best regards
Udo Schlengermann

16:33 Nov20-2012

David
Mackintosh
Engineering,
Acuren Group
Inc.,
Canada,
Joined Feb
2011

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 01:58 Nov-19-2012 (Opening).

Now that we've got the standards sorted out, I'd like to ask the respondents
based on their personal experience: how often does UT in coarse-grained welds
generate useful results?

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76

19:33 Nov20-2012
mark

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

In Reply to David Mackintosh at 16:33 Nov-20-2012 .
Dear David,
Good result in coarse grain Welds often depend on operator experience for apply
different techniques. These supplementary techniques is recommended for
characterize of indications with angle Beam L-Wave ;if the weld is flush apply
Normal L-wave for Volumetric defect ,Angle beam shear wave for Side wall
LOF,RTT (Round Tandem Trip)for Central Cracks.
Also there is some guidance on the methods in IIW Handbook on the Ultrasonic
Examination of Austenitic Welds.

20:08 Nov20-2012

Ed Ginzel
R & D, Materials
Research
Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov
1998

Post Reply

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

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Post Reply

In Reply to David Mackintosh at 16:33 Nov-20-2012 .

David, I think your qualifier is most appropriate! How often.? I have worked on
one project where a duplex steel was used and it was as easy to examine as any
ferritic steel I have tested. On a different project, there was sample of stainless
steel 75mm thick. I could barely discern the backwall using a 0 1MHz
compression mode and when I put the same 0 probe over the weld region I
could not even make out the backwall (the weld was ground flush).
Yes, there are standards to go to for guidance, but the recommended techniques
are still limited by the specifics of the sample you are testing. You have no idea
as to the success or failure of the options in the standards until you put a probe
to the part.

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936

02:19 Nov21-2012

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 20:08 Nov-20-2012 .

Dear Ed,

Jianjun Wu
Engineering,
NDE
China,
Joined Nov
2012
20

Yes, experience is the best teacher. When people heard testing at DSS welds,
ideas such as "Coarse grain, colomnar grain and difficult implementation" will
immediately come to his mind. However, sometimes actual situation is different
from what you already understanded.
Same situation is met at the beginning of testing a duplex stainless steel welds
with a 12mm thickness. Even the signal to noise ration gained from shear wave
probe (2.5M) is 20 dB greater than from longitudinal angle probe(2.5M)!
Dear Udo,
Thanks for your timely information. These standards will guide me in actual
implementation with more confidence.

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07:20 Nov21-2012

Jon Wallis
NDT Inspector,
Netherlands,
Joined Feb
2010

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 20:08 Nov-20-2012 .

This is why the only way to see what is possible in testing 'exotic' materials is to
have a simulated production weld manufactured of the same material, wps etc
with correctly placed side drilled holes. As Ed says, Duplex (and other austinitic
materials) can test just as easily as fine grained carbon steel but it can also be
coarse and uncooperative.
Trial and error!

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593

06:03 Nov26-2012

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 02:19 Nov-21-2012 .

Download

collin maloney
NDT Inspector,
- Plant
Inspector
Applus RTD,
Australia,
Joined Nov
2000
118

07:50 Nov26-2012

Jianjun
I have attached a very good reference for you. I was taught by one of the author
compainies (VAI) and believe that the only way to test austenitic SS is as per
David's reply - an actual mockup or part of the PQR with the same welding
parameters and artificial reflectors is required to prove the test. There are too
many variables in this type of testing to take any other approach as illistrated by
Ed.
Hope youn find the document useful, it went a long way to making the lights go
on in my head!!!

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

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Post Reply

In Reply to collin maloney at 06:03 Nov-26-2012 .

Dear Collin,

Jianjun Wu
Engineering,
NDE
China,
Joined Nov
2012

Thanks for your useful reference book!!!

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20

22:13 Dec03-2012

Mario Talarico
NDT Inspector,
Italy,
Joined May
2010
286

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

Post Reply

In Reply to Jianjun Wu at 01:58 Nov-19-2012 (Opening).

David, sorry for the delay. During this time I can not detach my hands just from
....... austenite!
Jianjun, I also have positive experiences for use of shear wave with welds of
duplex up to thickness of 30-35 mm SAW process: a good pulser and a good
crystal composite from 2 Mhz. The advantage compared to the use of
longitudinal waves is the ability to work full skip. As a precautionary measure, to
check the first indications to be repaired with longitudinal waves prior to repair.
Of course there are some limits that are function of the standard used: for
example, it is very difficult to get a signal from radial hole dn 1.5 with full skip
during transversal examination 30-35 mm thickness, also if duplex material
(then not completely austenitic).
For thicknesses greater, need to ensure a good sensitivity keeping in mind that
the upper part of the weld is critical, really critical: place of hot cracks and
defects of various kinds. If interpass temperature is not respected, is where the
donkey falls! Eventually move to procedures with removal outside cap and go
directly up to the defects, placing the probe on the weld zone. We do not speak
of austenitic structure! You can lose the echo of inconel weld corner, even in 1015 mm thickness!
When using longitudinal waves, incorrectly this signal is expected after the one
in longitudinal waves, being half-speed: low shear wave angle can make life
difficult and in reality all is function of the geometry. For example during
complete scanning with probe E-R 45 of a weld cap flat grinded and smoothed
(therefore seemingly simple activity !), the internal root penetration generates
signals with path corresponding to half thickness, with variable amplitude
function of the local shape penetration. This is also when the probe has not yet
passed the weld CL! I am seriously considering the use of shear wave focused to
replace, at least in some case (if I remember correctly also approved by DNV).
All the rules that have only internal-external notches imply the use of shear
wave full skip and can therefore be a source of 'embarrassment in case of failure
of the procedure due to coarse grain. In fact, what to do if you do not see
rebond from the the external notch? In the absence of reference reflectors
positioned in the body weld you can not define the limits of failure and even
monitor the sensitivity, eventually with some half skip technique. Similarly it
seems to me that, for these materials, a rules defining reference reflectors
without specifying the methods of detection of the same, leaves some space for
poor applications, although they are expensive, as personally I could verify.
Greetings.
Mario

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11:34 Mar26-2013
S.K. SURESH

Post Reply

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

In Reply to massimo carminati at 07:37 Nov-20-2012 .
why do not use the ultrasonci Testing in SS & DSS Materials.

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How do calibrate the CS to SS material without SS Reference Block

12:31 Mar12-2016

Post Reply

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 13:21 Nov-19-2012 .
Mr.Ed,

Indra
NDT Inspector,
R&D and
Teacher
USA,
Joined Dec
2015

The link does not seem to work, can you give me a pdf copy if you have one or
the right link.

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Thanks
Indra

13:54 Mar12-2016

Post Reply

Re: UT for Duplex Stainless steel welds

In Reply to Indra at 12:31 Mar-12-2016 .
New location at http://rules.dnvgl.com/docs/pdf/DNV/codes/docs/2013-10/OSF101.pdf

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Ed Ginzel
R & D, Materials
Research
Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov
1998
936

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