Well...just finished implementing LDISO's for 6 weeks on a couple of athletes. Here are some more observations.

They shouldn't be
named Long Duration Isometrics. They probably should be called extreme exhaustive isometrics. Because you are taking them to an
extreme joint position and you are litterally trying to break yourself. If you are doing them correctly, the longest you are probably going
to last is anywhere from 30 to 45 seconds...and 45 seconds probably meant you took a break somewhere during that time. Maximal
really means that...if you are pulling into the deepest position or in the case of the subscap hold, pulling down with your scaps
maximally...its about 30 seconds.
I noticed that when we took a couple of days off, we were stronger but then I also found out we couldn't last as long after we had 2 or 3
days of rest. Why? Because we got stronger and could contract more muscles and we could pull harder ecentrically. So the more I look at
these positions, the closer I see some resemblance to DB's. The big difference betweent the 2 are the energy systems. LDISO's don't
recognize energy systems but rather maximal efforts. I'm not saying there are not different energy systems that must be trained for...but
when you train maximally all the time, it just doesn't come into consideration.
The other myth is about taking yourself into a zone. You can't take yourself or use an end picture because if you are thinking about
anything other than pulling down as hard as you can, you are not getting it done. When it comes to fatigue, we also found that there is a
fatigue factor but if you are accustomed to traditional Strength and conditioning...you will enter a dark period and that dark period
sucks. Your body is trying to adapt and its wanting to adapt but because you fed your cns and muscles with so much sub maximal effort,
the system responds by almost going into a period of shock. Best way out of it is pull harder. Within 3 to 4 weeks, you will start feeling
good and you won't be always feeling exhausted...actually you will feel pretty good.
Are LDISO's the only thing you need to prepare for sport? No....but if you are lifting submaximally or doing some other cute exercises
that are anything less than submaximal, you would be better off staying on Ldiso. Do they get you stronger? For some people who are
pretty dysfunctional, the increases can be pretty substantial. For others, one rate max may not increase but work capacity will go
through the roof. Another words, if you can do a one rate max, after you have adapted to extreme iso's, you will find you can keep
repeating your one rate max.
We did about 6 or 7 isos and then back off to 4 isos for each athlete based on what the athlete needed and how they reacted to the
stimulus. If you are going to practice movement and test your new range of motions and stability, not sure how you can always do
7...thats just me. I do have an even greater appreciation for them...but I realized I was doing them wrong...and my guess is that most of
you are probably doing them wrong as well.
Sometimes you will experience what you think is a spasm of the ecentric muscle but might be closer to a stretch relex. A powerful
stretch reflex is one of many attributes you are actually training for. When you do experience that big reflex, take a deep breath and try
and break down a new barrier.
The body is always searching for the easiest and most efficient path. You will see some big jumps and suddenly you will notice you can
go much longer....but don't stay in that realm!!! Now you must dig even deeper to pull harder and contract harder than you previously
did. Why a heart rate monitor, in my opinion, is the best indicator of effort for "this" type of training.
Thats interesting info regarding heart rate. 250 seems very high. We have never gotten above 200 when just performing iso's. So if you
are getting your heart rate that much, my guess is your effort is excellent. We have not spent a lot of time on altitude drops except to
see if there was an adaptation in being able to absorb a lunge drop in perfect position without a compensation. This summer, we did a
lot more inertia training at maximum velocity without weight.
We have started squatting and our capacity has increased substantially and big improvement in position. Maybe next week we may test
1 rate max. I can tell you that we have adapted much better on lower body than upper body. I don't know how anyone could perform
these on their own.
Looking back on my first post of this thread...I know there will be a ton of naysayers. I'm pretty simple person. I like to take the
straightest line. I have tried all of the end picture, diaphragmatic breathing, working to get to certain times and all I got were luke warm
results. The only way for this to work is to totally give everything you have, life or death type effort. Position is key, but thats why you
need a coach or colleague watching. It really is about effort.
Maybe once we figure out the effort, the end picture will come into play. The other thing is that when you are trying to break yourself, it
takes away from the pressure of having to go a long distance. It actually becomes an athletic pursuit to see if you can go harder each and
every set. Getting the muscles to support the joint maximally will free the body to do some things you never thought you could.
Thats a good question and the more I think I have learned, the less I know. When pulling down against the concentric contractions, the
effort is primarily anerobic...you can feel yourself performing valsalva breathing pattern because you continually need a maximum
effort...much like what would happen if you were trying a one rate max. So you are not holding your breath intentionally but it is hypooxic in nature. We go the next rep as soon as we catch our breath...shake our your legs, and enough time to mentally prepare to give

everything. I think 30 seconds between each rep is normal.

I know this isn't the way it is taught, but it comes back to results. Same thing for the one legged squat. Don't just sit there and make sure
your leg is straight with your torso, pull the leg into hyper-extension as hard and as long as you can and make sure the spine also stays in
extension. I have noticed that some athletes get knee pain when performing a one legged squat. Usually, this is a popliteus problem and
pain goes away immediately when popliteus is activated.
Well...learning to pull into the ground with your hamstring is pretty important...but the lunge is about elongating the back hip flexor...so
your back leg should be in extension. Don't let your back knee bend!! If all you can do is 15 seconds with maximal effort, than so be it.
You are trying to make the muscles of each joint very very stable. Don't forget that when you are pulling yourself into the ground, their
are 2 sets of muscles involved in getting you into the right position. The hip flexors and the hamstrings...they both must be recruited
maximally! If you are only thinking about the hamstring, you are only getting half the results...same thing for the wall sit. My youngest
son tested out on back squat. He had not squatted since May. He performed his one rate max 6 times but with much better position. He
probably could have eaked out more but it was at the end of the training session and I wanted to test some other things.
We have gone 7 weeks on iso's...we switched over to wgf methods and I'm thrilled with the lower body adaptations. Our reactive
exercises are solid and in good position. If you put an all out effort, you will be rewarded. Not the end all to your training, but the
beginning.
I copied this off a facebook website, Called "In-Balance Technique" By Dr. John Pietila. This guy is ahead of the curve on a number of
fronts. I don't go along with the 5 minutes thing...we go 3 minutes...sometimes 4. From an energy utilization development standpoint,
he probably is correct. I think I can get the same thing accomplished using other methods. I may be wrong and I could change my mind if
I saw conclusive results. Nevertheless, I do believe he has nailed the extreme positions. I would encourage readers to browse through his
discussion pages as there is a wealth of information.
It seems through all of the discussion there are two major thought patterns. 1. In the extreme position the concentric muscle group
should be pulling us further into position and the eccentric muscle group should be resisting that movement with an equally forceful
contraction. or 2. The concentric muscle group should be pulling us further into position while the eccentric muscle group is relaxed and
maximally lengthening. Which is it? I know that better feedback occurs with greater muscle involvement.I also know that more motor
unit recruitment can occur with great muscle involvement.
So based off of these two ideas the correct way should be for the concentric group to be pulling down, while the eccentric muscle group
should be resisting the movement in the most extreme position. (this position should be slowly but constantly changing toward an even
more extreme position)
In the lunge. Using the position noted by Garrett (thanks buddy) we should be pulling to a lower position with the front leg hip flexor
(acting on hip flexion) and hamstring (acting on knee flexion). We should resist that motion with the front leg glut (acting on hip flexion)
and the quad (acting on Knee flexion). With the back leg we should use the glut to pull into hip extension and quad to pull into knee
extension while the back leg hip flexors resist the motion at the hip and the hamstring resists that motion at the knee.
Given the mechanical advantage of the concentric muscle groups coupled with gravity, eventually they should win causing slow constant
movement further into the extreme position. This will simulate running because like running, all of the muscle groups are working
together. The memory of this position will be implanted into the nervous system, so later it can be recalled and utilized. The longer you
hold the better the imprint into the brain and cerebellum. (it takes a while for this to happen)Over time the brain will connect with more
motor units, thus an increase in strength and performance. The muscle will physically become strongerThe communication between
antagonistic muscle groups will be enhanced. (the breakdown of communication is the cause of bad timing leading to muscle related
injuries)Also lengthening occurs allowing for decreased fatigue, faster contraction, as well as greater range of motion. I feel that in a
normal person, one could move their leg into an extreme position, but literally the brain wouldn't have any idea what to do with it. In
fact the feedback received by the brain my even be confusing because it has never received that feedback before and it doesn't know
how to construct a proper movement patter to return the leg to a normal position. Making a wrong choice for order, timing, intensity,
and/ or duration will lead to a strain/sprain injury. Being uncomfortable is a big part of the process. Isn't that why people give out when
training? The burning feeling, the shaking, the ripping feeling, the inability to catch your breath. Once we get to that feeling we are just
starting to push our boundaries. Giving up at that point is doing nothing to help us achieve our goals. You can train all day long and gain
nothing if you give up every time it gets uncomfortable. Doing the first 20 seconds of a lunge will not challenge your system enough to
create a change. Even if you do it 20 times. Unless you take it to the end of your abilities. DOC
Remember, that the front shin should remain vertical throughout the duration...so that position is fixed. So the only antagonist is the
quad to the hamstring. Lots of resultant forces. But if you want to keep it simple...James said just think of the front leg wanting to go up
or away due to the hip flexor, and the back leg wanting to go in the opposite direction via the glute. (extension)
The key is to go all out...leave nothing in reserve. Don't try to hold on because then you do begin bracing.

Well Charles, I will do my best. The first thing that comes to mind with movement is the cerebellum. It is widely known that the
cerebellum works together with the contralateral cortex and the ipsilateral body. One of it's functions is to help control movement and
especially complex movement. To increase the frequency of firing of the right cerebellum you can have the patient to specific types of
movement depending on what area you want to affect more then others. Generally though, the lateral portions of the cerebellum help
control the lateral parts of our bodies (hands and feet). As we move more medial in the cerebellum we also move more medial in the
body. Elbows->shoulders. These areas are more inter medial parts of the cerebellum. Finally things like the spinal musculature and the
eyes are controlled by the most central part of the cerebellum. So in order to increase activation of the lateral cerebellum the patient
should do a complex movement of the distal extremity (basically the hand or foot). I usually have them make a big figure 8 in the air like
they are waving in a parade, and I have them look at it. So the tricky part of the cerebellum is that as long as the movement is always
changing the cerebellum will become activated. Now consider a movement such as making a fist and relaxing over and over. This action
is not diverse and actually will lower the activation of the ipsilateral cerebellum. Why? Because the cerebellum has surround inhibition.
As we learn to do the activity better and better our cerebellum will start inhibiting areas near the pathway and start selecting only the
specific areas needed to fire to get the exact movement. With a diverse movement all areas of the cerebellum need to fire. This is how
you get better in throwing darts. First dart (new movement) many areas of the cerebellum. As you continue to do the same activity the
areas of the cerebellum not needed become inhibited. At the same time though you become a better and better thrower. Anyways. We
can actually use this to either increase a week cerebellum or decrease an over firing cerebellum.
Also with the cerebellum to work more centrally, eye movements or head movements are the key. For right cerebellar activity move the
head quickly to the right while the patient maintains fixation of the eyes on an object. Your task is to watch their eyes and to move their
head at the highest rate possible while they can still maintain fixation. Obviously if they can move fast to the left but very slowly to the
right they have a decreased right cerebellum. Using eye movements without head movements is simple as well. Have them fixate on
your finger and move your finger at a 45 degree angle about 18 inches away from their face. So for a right cerebellum you would start in
the upper right quadrant and move down to the left and back to the starting position again. Watch their eyes. The cerebellum is to make
the movement smooth. So if you compare right to left and the right is more jerky, that is decreased firing.
A little side note, if you do a test and find a decreased function usually that test becomes the therapy. Remember we can always couple
feedback together. For example if doing an eye movement for the right cerebellum is bad, try doing the eye movement followed with a
right coupled adjustment. The results are super good. So that is the cerebellum.
For Cortex, we know that the feedback and output comes from and goes to the contralateral half of the body. So to drive the left cortex
use movement on the right side of the body. If we use bicep contraction, to get the greatest activation to the cortex we would want to
have high resistance and we want to be moving into a concentric contraction. Concentric contraction fires very highly the muscle spindle
which is attached to the IA nerve. This is the biggest and fastest nerve in the body and it can carry a lot of information. SO that must
mean that what ever it is connected to must be sending a lot of information. So firing the Muscle Spindle (MS) this way will send high
barrages of info directly to the cortex. Now on the other hand, doing the exact opposite actually causes more activation of the Golgi
Tendon Organ (GTO). This is attached to a IB fiber. We know that this type of fiber is inhibitory, so when we fire this by doing an
eccentrically resistant movement we will get inhibition firing to the spine and brain. This is exactly why after stretching there is a
refractory period of decreased muscle activation. Literally meaning if you stretch before a race you will actually run slower. Thus the
invention of the dynamic warm-up. Now Charlie I am sure you are thinking specifically about the different types of exercises and how
they affect the brain. I have theories, but I am not totally sure. So lets look at the first exercise on Charlie's mind. The isometric eccentric
hold.
First of all 90% of people do this exercise wrong. Lets simply look at the squat (which is not simple). The first problem is the position,
knees forward, pushing into the ground with the heals, feet far apart and angled outwards, not at 90 degrees knee bend, head down,
shoulders rounded forward, and not to mention all that but the person won't stop complaining of the discomfort. So these are all bad
things. We want the position to be 90 degrees at the hip and knee, Knees not forward of the feet, pushing into the ground with the ball
of the foot. Back straight and head up. If you can do that you are already half way there. Next mistake. People will be trying to hold
themselves in that position by using the quads. That again is wrong. (yes I know if you turn off your quads you will fall down). But think
of the movement this position is replicating (or what direction are you moving). The answer, yes Charlie, Down. What muscle in your legs
or body will pull you down? Again Charlie has the right answer. The Hamstrings. So in this position you need to be pulling hard (it takes a
lot of brain power) with the hamstring. Yes, you will be pulling against your own quad, but the important neurological exercise is that
you pull very hard with the hamstring.
Now I taught you that the eccentric position causes inhibition, which it does. But it fires through a IB neuron. Not the biggest IA neuron.
The hamstring, which is concentrically loaded, and firing the MS to the IA neuron should be firing at a higher level then the feedback
from the GTO, IB, of the quad. So ONLY in this instance are we actually training the body to do a movement correctly. (using the right
muscles in the right order) We are teaching you to pull down. We are lengthening the quads through inhibition (relaxation not
stretching). One important note is we are training the two together. Why is it important? Because one muscle can only contract as fast as
the antagonist can relax. So the relaxation is the important factor in speed. Here we are training the proper neurological reflexes to
quickly relax the quad and contract the hamstring.
Another important factor of the ISO Extreme is the number of muscles you are contracting. The more muscles you contract, 1. the longer

you can hold properly, but 2. more areas of the brain are firing and starting to work together. This is the exact mechanism to increase the
muscular recruitment from 20% to 25%. See what just happened there. Now with the same muscles you have just made your bench go
from 200 lbs. to 250 lbs. And the muscle is the same size. (actually the increase goes higher, but from this effect we get about 5% gain on
strength)
Training in this manner will also lengthen the muscles. (meaning doing more then just squat, and training the whole body) We know
from research that the longer a muscle is the faster and harder it can contract. That is why runners in the blocks at a race try to set the
block so their calf is fully extended. So they have push harder and faster. Now thinking of fatigue. To me fatigue is nothing more then a
shortening muscle. A recovered muscle is nothing more then a lengthened muscle. You could actually test the fatigue of a muscle if you
could test the length some how. Anyways. As you fatigue your muscle is shortening and shortening until it get all the way short. At that
point you can no longer continue. What would happen to the duration of the activity if you started with a muscle longer then your
competitors. 1. you would have a stronger output. But 2 you would have more endurance. (this factor comes from to things) But who
doesn't want that in athletics. Sorry I can see I am getting in to a whole different discussion, but oh well. Recovery after an activity takes
time. For many people 2 days. Why, because that is the time it takes for your muscle to lengthen back out. You might say that if you have
longer muscles that it would take longer for your recovery. And maybe so, but we keep training, so we keep lengthening our muscles
(from the training) and we actually can use training to recover our muscles faster.
A quick example. In my clinic we were (by we I mean the other people and not me) training a High School Football team. The team had 2
a day practices at the High School, plus a group of the guys came to the clinic for a 3rd training session. Guess what we did. Good guess
Charlie, Isometric Eccentric exercises. The group that did the 3rd training session actually felt more fresh, less stiff, and less sore the next
day. They were ready for the next day of 2 practices. The guys who just went home after the 2nd practice were so stiff and sore and
fatigued it was very difficult to participate in the practice.
So we actually recovered them by training them, we lengthened their muscles, so they also have a higher output as well as longer
endurance, and now the 3rd thing. Deceased chance of injury.
I coached track for 7 years. I was always the crazy guy making the runners do stupid exercises. But it was worth it. I never forced anyone
to do them. They could opt out if they wanted. But what we did was ISo metric exercise for 15 min. ( which is nice because it leaves us
1:45 for training track skills) We did a 5 min right lunge and a 5 min left lunge. and a 5 min push-up. Then we would either train technical
(hurdles or pole vault) or we would have a running work-out. Then following the training we would again do 5 min. of standing
glut/ham. The number of injures we had was 0. Out of the group who opted out, 4 of them got hurt. One important point to note is 4
people opted out. So this can also be very preventative for injuries. Remember that the more force you can absorb the more force won't
be transferring to areas of your body it shouldn't be.
I'm going to stop now, but Charlie maybe you can continue a little to get me back on track of what you were asking.

Well when you are talking about Cortex it is alway contralateral for making feedback, but could be both for efferents.
Extensors and flexors, good question. Typically when we are talking about distal flexors we can create feedback to the contralateral
cortex. The Cerebellum works by creating a motor program and sending that to the contralateral cortex. (motor planing) then it goes a
step farther to receive the actual plan the cortex sent to the muscle and it receives feedback from the area moving so it can compare the
two. That is why complex movements activate the cerebellum. It is in my opinion that modulating the tone of the flexors and extensors
will not effect the cerebellum very much, but will have an effect in the cortex. By changing the tone of the flexors you can get the
greatest effect in the Cortex.
For example. If you find a weak right cortex the best way to effect that is to decrease the tone of the flexors on the right and increase the
tone of the flexors on the left. Flexors (compared to extensors) have a much higher somatotopic representation in our brain and it is
easier to make a nice big change.
Now tone in the body is effected by cortical output to the PMRF, generally we get increased tone of the ipsilateral flexors. The
cerebellum while is does fire to that area is firing up towards the cortex. (the cortex fires down to the body via PMRF, Cerebellum fires
up to the cortex via PMRF) So if you have increased tone on the right due to a weak cortex on the right you can change that by doing left
cerebellar stim. (left cerebellum up via PMRF to right cortex then back down to body via PMRF to the right flexors) Can you see the
connection. Out put of the cerebellum doesn't go down to the body. Where is the cerebellarspino pathway? None.
There are typical presentations of Cerebellar dysfunction seen in tone. Typically we find weakness of the posterior proximal muscles
ipsilateral to the weakness. Thus the subluxation. When someone comes to you and says how their right neck hurts and is so tight you
should be thinking left cerebellar weakness. Since it is spinel we know it is midline cerebellum, so check the eyes or vestibular system for
positive tests and then use that failed test as feedback for therapy coupled with a coupled cervical adjustment probably from the left.
A miracle will be created and the the patient will think you are the smartest person in the world. Especially if you toss out words like
pontomedularyreticular formation.
Again testing complex movements of the right hand is an output function of the left cortex but modulated by the right cerebellum to
make it smooth. If it is not smooth, cerebellum. If it is over shoot or under shoot, cerebellum. If they don't know where their nose is, not
cerebellum That is cortex specifically parietal lobe of contralateral side.
I hope this helps your case studies.
The trick is, once you are doing it correctly, is that you can't do it for 5 min. Only the people who do it wrong can hold 5 min. I know it is
confusing, but keep trying with squat and one day it will click in and you will understand.
You guys. Always trying to get me to lay it all out for you. Anyways. Here is the stuff. So when you are doing an Iso exteem you should be
pulling into the position and using the muscle that you would normally use to hold that position as the antagonist. I think that part
makes sence. In the squat you should pull down with the hamstring and use the quad as the resistance (antagonist). As your hamsting
starts winning, you start sinking, and your quad will start lengthing. One because of the position and two because of the antagonistic
inhabition caused from the hamstring contraction. This will stimulate the Alpha Gamma loop talked about my Jay so much. So far so
good.

Now the harder part. If you are pulling properly you should fatigue anywhere from 7 to 30 seconds. Then you will be done. That time is
important because that is the time to get to the Aerobic energy system. At that point you should stop and use the aerobic energy system
to recover the first two systems you just fatigued. You will know when you are recovered because you will naturally take one deep
breath and then start breathing normally. At that point start again. The total time should still be 5 min. of work. Most poeple believe you
should train the aerobic system by running on a tredmil or doing some sort of aerobics. But that is only one way the energy can work. It
can also work to recover the other systems. But you have to train it to do that. If you keep exercising then you will use the energy from
that system to go towards the exercise and none will go to the recovery. So by stopping, the energy produced will recover the anerobic
and ATP energy cycles. Then you start again. Anyways. Keep doing that. Then as a test you will easily be able to hold the 5 min squat. Just
like the little kid. He has the recovery system working like it should. So he can hold easily. Plus when you do the test of trying for 5 min.
you are just relaxing in the position. Not pulling like crazy. So that is the difference. Eventually you should be able to cycle through the
energy cycles. Using the aerobic to hold you while it recovers the other two cycles quicly then you can switch back to the ATP and
Anaerobic while the aerobic recovers it self. OK. Lets hear the questions...

I agree 100% with Giuseppe. If you are not out of your comfort zone you are only creating adaptation towards being slower and weaker.
So what I mean is if you could pull down for 20 seconds. Then your training session should consist of pulling down for 20 seconds,
staning up until recovered (monitor by heart rate or breating rate) then going again for 15 reps (300 seconds of work) You must complete
this entire workout for 21 sessions in a row. Note I said sessions. You can do more then one session per day or 1 session every other day.
What ever you like. After 21 session you should retest again, ( you should be closer to holdeing for 30 seconds) Then divide that number
into 300 to find the number of reps. So 30 sec. for 10 reps. Most people will test between 7 and 30 seconds. A highly highly highly
conditioned athlete may reach as high as 45 seconds.
Now after a while you will want to see how good you are doing. So then you need to test yourself. You can do that by maxing on the
squat, doing a running test, or trying to hold the squat position normally like a 3 year old kid would do. In a relaxed postion not pulling
down hard. Hopefully this makes sense. Let me know.

I will try to address some of the peripheral mechanisms underlying iso extremes and some points of contention/questions I have with
the above explanation. Undoubtedly I'll miss some thoughts I had while reading the comments above, but hopefully they'll come to me
in subsequent posts.
First, my understanding of IA and IB afferents is that IA, which are afferents from the muscle spindle, respond to both magnitude of
muscle stretch (absolute muscle length) and rate of stretch, both serving as excitatory impulses to the agonist. Conversely, IB afferents
originate from the GTO of the musculotendinous region, are most responsive to tension in the muscle (though this is an
oversimplification), and inhibits the agonist. At the same time that muscle spindle activity increases in a lengthened agonist, it inhibits
motoneuronal excitability to the antagonist. Relatedly, if the IB afferent is excited, it inhibits the agonist while exciting the antagonist. On
a very elemental level, Ia and Ib afferents have opposite effects. With this in mind, I believe that Ia afferents (from muscle spindle) are
most active during an isometric at long muscle lengthens (think EDI) or rapid and heavy eccentrics. If the muscle is concentrically
contracting, the stretch on the muscle spindle is not as great as possible, thereby Ia afferent impulses are not at max frequency.
Furthermore, if a desire of the iso extreme is to relax the lengthened antagonist, is it counterproductive to have this muscle at long
muscle lengths, where Ia activity may feedback to the ventral horn to increase excitability?
Second, I think there are several mechanisms that can explain the inhibition of a muscle following static stretching. It may be that the
GTO plays a role, I don't know. I also suspect that there are descending supraspinal inputs that reduce the central integrated state of that
lower motoneuron. What I'm pretty sure may be happening, is that the actomyosin crossbridges of the actual muscle spindles are
resetting to longer resting lengths during the stretch. Hence, when the stretch is stopped, there is inhibited feedback from the muscle
spindle via the Ia afferents, thereby lowering motoneuronal excitability of that muscle. Another topic of interest is revealed during
propioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF), a type of stretching similar to an iso extreme, in which the agonist is contracted
voluntarily at the extreme angle in order to further lengthen the stretched antagonist. Now, in the past it was thought that due to
reciprocal inhibition, contracting the agonist would concurrently send an inhibitory impulse to the lengthened antagonist. This is similar
to what Dr. J is proposing above. But when looking at integrated EMG readings, it was found that this variant of PNF actually increased
motoneuronal excitability of the antagonist! This suggests that the simple mechanism of reciprocal inhibition is not explaining what is
going on during PNF, and this may have applications to iso extremes.
Third, is a fatigued muscle just a shortened muscle? I must admit that I'm not entirely well-read on the neural alterations that occur with
fatigue, but is the shortened state of the muscle explained just on a neural basis? That is, does the muscle shorten because of increased
motoneuronal tone? Well, as an exclusive mechanism, no. Much of the reduction in force output, rate of force development, and rate of
relaxation of a fatigued muscle seems to occur in large part due to chances in the metabolic environment of the muscle (increased
hydrogen ions, inorganic phosphate, potentially magnesium). The subsequent shortening of muscle that occurs with DOMS seems to be
attributable in large part to a loss of calcium homeostasis across the sacrolemma and the sarcoplasmic reticulum. With a constant, low
level amount of calcium in the muscle, there is a chronic muscle tone...shortening the muscle. Interestingly, atleast with exerciseinduced muscle damage, and DOMS, there does not appear to be increased neural input into the muscle to explain the shortening, as an
EMG of a sore muscle shows little activity. Show how can iso extremes help recover muscles? This is speculation on my part, but I
believe that the activity may interact with neural factors as Dr. J proposed, but that such activity may also help restore Ca+2 homeostasis
and some of these other metabolic imbalances. Furthermore, training the muscle at longer lengths can actually prevent soreness in 2
primary ways, I believe. Creating high loads at long lengths will theoretically cause more sarcomeres to be added in series, and secondly,
the Ca+2 entering the cell (through stretch activated channels) can 'prime' the adaptive pathways which guard against the oxidative
damage that can occur during the inflammatory response which normally occurs following exercise-induced muscle damage. Also,
activation of autonomic functions may help restore muscle function faster. So, if we can train in such a way that prevents muscle
damage, we can train more frequently (more than once every 2 days or whatever conventional thought is).
Fourth, I don't know how the aerobic pathways and ATP/glycolytic pathways can operate at separate times. When beginning any muscle
contraction, all energy systems are utilized. The intensity of the exercise will determine which system will predominantly provide energy,
but all are active. ATP/PCr burns up in about 10 seconds, glycolysis then becomes the primary energy provider of ATP, then if activity
continues the aerobic system will become primary. But all systems are active from the start. No doubt the aerobic system will restore
phosphagen/glycolytic capacities, but I don't know how this can happen during continuous exercise if that exercise was just at a
sufficient intensity to deplete these faster energy supplies. Instead, I would think that something has to give...metabolites accumulate,
force output decreases, all the while the aerobic system is trying to keep up. Cycling through the energy systems seems impossible to me
unless a significant drop in intensity occurs, as would be possible during break. But to sustain a maximal contraction for 5 minutes, while
perhaps possible from the neural commands standpoint (though slight decrease in impulse frequency ala 'muscle wisdom'), the force
output of the muscle would undoubtedly decline as metabolites accumulate.
Lastly, why 21 sessions? It would seem that such a number must be an average time course for the average person to develop the
appropriate trait. Is it just an issue of motor learning? As people come to training in different preparedness, it would also seem that
there would be a good deal of variation around this norm.
I welcome any questions/comments/disagreement

Joe, I understand your point. I also think there is a lot of overlap between the stimulation achieved by performing correct exercise and
the stimulation achieved by the In-Balance technique, so further discussion is warranted.
To get this going again, I'd like to touch on the first of Ben's points. You mentioned, Ben, that the 1A afferent of the antagonist
(lengthened muscle) in iso extreme position will send an excitatory signal to try to activate and shorten that same muscle (to protect
itself so it doesn't get too long and tear). To continue to lengthen the antagonist muscle, we therefore have to work against this reflex
with conscious effort of the agonist. Can such effort reset the stretch reflex to occur later, allowing the muscle to go to a greater length
before such protective mechanisms occur?
The 1A also provides the greatest magnitude of afferent feedback. Do you think another purpose of the maximally-lengthened state
might be to maximize afferent feedback to the brain, so that those neural pathways mature and the brain can communicate with that
muscle more effectively? I have encountered in various places the notion that if the brain can control a muscle at its extreme range, then
it can control that muscle through its entire range. This point seems both relevant and important, and I'd appreciate any further
elaboration on the mechanics.
Also, can you or Dr. J please clarify the "alpha-gamma loop" in this context? If the alpha motor neuron of the agonist fires (in concentric
contraction), there will be slack on the muscle spindle and the gamma motor neuron of the same muscle will have to fire to keep tension
on the spindle. That seems like a positive feedback loop -- as more alpha MN's fire, so too must more gamma MN's. Is that what Dr. J is
referring to above?

Training,
This discussion is about training, but these opinions are mine alone. This discussion says nothing about the thought, technique, or has
any reflection of Jay Schroeder or Denis Thompson. If you want specific information about their treatment or training protocols you
should contact them directly and ask.
In training there are some principles that must be remembered at all times and applied at all times.
1. The first step in training an athlete is position.
2. The second step in training an athlete is to absorb force in position.
3. The third step in training and athlete is to create force from the position.
4. The components of training are, Force, Velocity, Velocity Endurance, and Strength Endurance.
5. Every stimulus creates a predictable response. The response may be good or bad, but it is always predictable.
6. Training should always be done to the maximum, using velocity of movement, length of time, amount of load. Training any less then
maximum will only create a less then maximum response.
So for training an athlete the first place to start is with the ISO Extreme training. We do this to teach position and to get the energy
systems working. In this phase of training there are a myriad of poses one could choose. Some examples are the front deltoid raise, wall
push off, standing glut/ham, squat or wall squat, standing straight leg raise, upright row, push-up, and the Iso Abs. The components to a
good position are a 90-degree angle from the limb into the ground or wall, pulling into position, the position should be the maximal
down position (with exceptions), and the duration should last for 300 seconds or more.
In the lunge the front leg (shin) should make a 90-degree angle with the floor at all times, no exceptions. With the wall push-off the
forearm (the part from the wrist to the elbow) should make a 90-degree angle with the wall. In the standing straight leg raise the thigh
(the part between the knee and hip) should create a 90-degree angle with the body. I hope by now you are getting the 90-degree rule.
In the lunge the front leg should be pulling into position with the hamstring. This is because we create force into the ground by pulling. If
you are pushing into the ground with the quad of the front leg you are actually making a breaking step first, then you must pull with the
hamstring (as a normal movement requires) but you must also play catch-up. What a waste of energy, breaking and then pulling to
catch-up. Why not just pull the whole time to create more forward action. Mostly for this rule try to think of the direction you are trying
to go. Wall push-off, towards the wall, squat, towards the ground, front deltoid raise, towards the ground. Pull Pull Pull.
The maximal downward position. This rule is very important and often confused with the 90-degree rule. For example, many people
think the lunge position should have a 90-degree position of the knee, but in actuality the 90-degree rule is applied to the leg-ground
relationship. It has nothing to do with the angle of the knee. For some people it will be above 90-degrees and for some people it will be
below 90-degrees. As long as the person is as low as they can possibly go. Another good example is the iso push-up. The person should
create the 90-degree angle between the floor and the forearm, not at the elbow. The person should be trying to get as close to the floor
as possible. Pulling towards the floor is the only way to activate the appropriate muscles. If the persons chest is hitting the floor, then
some other device needs to be used to allow the person to go beyond the distance of the floor. In this case chairs can be used.
300 seconds = 5 minutes. Why this amount of time? No one knows. Some people might claim to know, but they wont tell you because
they dont know. Some claim this is the amount of time for all of the energy systems to rotate through. Some claim that after research
they found that after 3 minutes of Isos we found gain A, with 5 minutes we found gain B, and with 7 minutes we found gain C. When
comparing the results they found the amount of work in relation to the amount of time spent 5 minutes was the optimal amount of time
for the amount of benefit. But this study doesnt exist or to say in another way I have never seen it. But regardless a total work time of
300 seconds should try to be achieved per exercise. This means when doing the right lunge you stay with the right leg forward for as
many sets as it takes to reach 300 seconds. Then and only then can you switch to the other leg forward. This is a very common mistake
to switch back and forth. Never do that.
The energy systems are either anaerobic (without oxygen), or Aerobic (with oxygen). The anaerobic energy systems can be further
broken down into ATP, ATP + CP, and + glycogen. The aerobic energy systems can be further broken down into Glycogen, Lactic acid, and
Fatty Acids. But basically it goes like this. We have stored ATP in our muscles, which is ready for use at any time. This type of energy will
only last about 1-3 seconds. Once the ATP runs out it is up to the rest of the energy cycles to produce ATP for energy. Creatine phosphate
can produce ATP for about 4-45 seconds, and glycogen from 45-120 seconds, lactic acid from 120-240 seconds, and finally fatty acids
after 240 seconds. So for example the glycogen system is a system that will generate ATP for the muscle to use. Since this system is
slower at producing ATP than the Creatine Phosphate system the power output of the muscle will be less. The rate-limiting factor is the
ability to regenerate ATP. You can actually tell what energy production system is the most inefficient by watching the time it takes an
athlete to fatigue.
All three energy systems contribute at the start of exercise but the contribution depends upon the individual, the effort applied or on
the rate at which energy is used. As an exercise starts ATP stores which are in the muscle will be used first. After about 2 seconds the
creatine phosphate (also stored in the muscle) will regenerate the broken down ATP. ATP (adenosine triphosphate) forms ADP
(adenosine diphosphate) which releases energy the muscle can use. The creatine phosphate just gives another phosphate group back to

the ADP to form ATP again. This process will continue until all of the creatine phosphate is used up (about 6 seconds).
Once all of the creatine phosphate stores are depleted the body resorts to stored glucose to produce ATP. The breakdown of glucose in
an anaerobic environment is called anaerobic glycolysis and results in the production of pyruvate and hydronium ions (H+). The H+ must
be transported into the mitrochondria to be used in the Kreps cycle. As the exercise continues the H+ ions start to build up and create an
acidic environment inside of the muscle. To prevent the build up of H+ ions pyruvic acid can accept the H+ and carry it out. This
combination forms lactic acid. The lactate diffuses into the blood and takes some of the H+ with it. As the H+ builds up and the
environment becomes more acidic the contraction of the muscle will be impaired. The low pH (acidic environment) will also stimulate
the free nerve endings in the muscle causing a burning sensation.
Lactic acid is not responsible for the burning sensation in the muscle when exercising very fast. This sensation is due to the excess H+
ions because they cannot be removed fast enough. Lactic acid is also not responsible for DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness). Lactic
acid is also not a waste product. Once the lactic acid diffuses into the blood it eventually arrives in the liver where it participates in the
cori cycle to form glucose again. This glucose can be released back into the blood to be used as energy. Typically the process of moving
the lactic acid from the muscle to the liver takes at least one hour. The lactate can also be converted directly to ATP in the muscle for
immediate use or to glycogen for later energy.
Keep in mind that lactic acid is only formed when the environment in the muscle is without oxygen. During aerobic exercise there is
enough oxygen to allow NAD to properly move the H+ ions into the electron transport chain in the mitochondria. The goal of training is
to create efficiency of movement of the H+ ions out of the muscle into the mitochondria. This can be done by increasing the
microvasculature in the muscle (more O2) and by increasing the stored amounts of the other metabolites.
ATP, the energy of the muscle is also commonly misunderstood. Many people think this is the energy for muscle contraction. Actually,
this energy causes muscle relaxation and lengthening. Think about two common examples. When reaching your threshold of work how
does your muscle feel? Tight or loose. Normally it feels tight. The other example is a dead person. They have muscles that are very stiff.
Rigor mortis is caused because there is no more ATP to cause muscle relaxation. This is important because in order for a muscle to
contract it must first be relaxed and lengthened.
This is where the first concepts come in. A lengthened muscle is a recovered muscle (ready for contraction) and a shortened muscle is a
fatigued muscle (not able to contract and shorten because it is already short).
Iso metric training teaches the muscle to work in a lengthened position because as we work the muscle it will be shortening. Starting
with a longer muscle will give us more time to the full fatigue. Starting with a shorter muscle will give us less time to reach full
shortening, assuming both muscles are shortening at the same rate.
We also do Iso metric training to teach the body what muscle to use to move the limb into a particular position. The nervous system
learns from repetition. Five minutes of pulling into the same position is enough time to teach the nervous system something. The body
must also be able to move into the position under its own power. Doing as assisted movement into a position will not create the same
result as an unassisted movement into the same position. The brain must be able to recognize the position and know how to use the
muscles to move into and out of the position. It can only do that though training.
When a person moves a joint the muscles on either side of the joint alternate to support the joint. They do not turn on at the same time.
Typically the muscles can alternate around 15 times per second. The faster the joint moves the slower the alternation. By holding a
position we are creating the fastest alternation between the flexors and extensors as possible. We are teaching the muscles to
communicate with each other and the brain about joint position. This communication only occurs when both groups of muscles are
being contracted. What does this mean? While doing a Iso push-up the direction is down. So the athlete must be pulling down with the
posterior muscles, but at the same time he must be holding the position with the anterior muscles.
One of the main reasons many people use the iso training is to get away from stretching. This is because we know that a muscle that is
not contracting can not absorb force. The force will transfer to the tendons and ligaments and make them become weaker and weaker
over time. We also believe a longer muscle can contract faster and harder then a shortened muscle. So we train in a lengthened position.
There is not much of a difference between stretching the pectoralis muscles and/or doing an iso push-up with out contracting the
anterior muscles as well. There is a small difference, but both will cause weakening of the tendons and ligaments of the anterior part.
Also since holding the position causes the fastest possible alternation of the two muscle groups it is similar to training at the fastest
velocity. Any movement other then an actual maximum velocity movement will have a slowing effect of these reflexes.
When the proper reflex is stimulated (or an abnormal reflex for that matter) the body will try to make that pathway the preferred
pathway. It will lay down myelin and other proteins making the nerves stronger and faster. Because other pathways are not being used
they will loose protein and myelin. These reflexes can happen automatically when a person is put into an Iso exercise, but the brain also
has the ability to modify, and even override all reflexes in the body. It is very important to have the brain focused on what is happening.

Iso extreme training does all that I have said above. It causes the maximal firing of the proper reflexes for a prolonged duration causing
neurological learning. It also is long enough duration to cycle through all of the energy systems, stimulating them to become more
efficient. With contraction of large groups of muscles we also get more neuromuscular junction growth, which equals a larger
recruitment of the number of muscle fibers, which means a stronger contraction. Longer looser muscles will also have a higher ability to
increase the blood flow clearing the H+ ions. Iso extreme will also cause the actual growth of the muscle fibers. Literally the fibers will
become longer. This means longer muscles and looser bodies.
How long do the Iso Extreme exercises have to continue? Well for some people forever, for others one year or more, and for others a
few months. It depends on many factors like, how fast the persons nervous system adapts, how fast the energy cycles adapt, the
amount of effort the athlete puts into the exercises. Five minutes of doing the exact same thing takes a tremendous amount of
concentration. But eventually you should reach a level where the athlete can hold all of the positions for 5 minutes without
accumulating so many H+ ions the muscle quits, and have efficient enough energy systems to produce ATP fast enough to continue the
relaxation of the muscle. Only move on to the second type of training after all of the systems of the body (digestion, immune, energy,
neurological, cardiac, ect.) have fully adapted to the stimulus.
The proper way to do an Iso Extreme Exercise, in my opinion, is to constantly pull down into position while also at the same time resist
that movement with the antagonist. The position should be the closest position to the end range of motion as possible, but so that if the
antagonist (the lengthened muscle) was to be relaxed a noticeable downward movement of less than one inch would occur. The
instruction people have for the Iso exercises do not say this because this is a learning process that the athlete must figure out on his
own. The least amount of instruction to do an exercise is the best. Until that day, he will have to stay on the Iso exercise program. Never
rest against a relaxed, stretched muscle group.
Once the proper position has been achieved and the energy systems are in place to support a high amount of work, the next process is
to teach the athlete to turn on at a high velocity. Using the brain of the athlete to turn on a muscle group is way to slow. We teach the
athlete to turn on by causing a life or death situation where the body reacts reflexively with out using the brain initially. These life or
death situations are not really life or death, but it does a good job at getting the body to react. This type of exercise is called an altitude
drop. A weight is dropped from a distance and the athlete is expected to stop the weight as abruptly as possible while maintaining the
position. This can only be accomplished if all of the supporting muscles turn on as fast as possible. An altitude drop can be done in any
position, squat, lunge, push-up, front deltoid raise, because the method can be applied in that position. Typically the athlete would start
with a light weight and progress up to heavier weights as he was able to absorb the force properly. In the case where the weight can not
be changed we can still vary the height of the drop. An example of this is jumping down from the plyometric box. In this exercise the
weight (body weight) is constant and we vary the height the athlete drops from.
The third step to training an athlete is to teach them to create force from the position. This type of exercise is called the rebound. This
exercise uses dropping weights, but it is different. The athlete starts in the beginning position, for example elbow flexion of 90 degrees
for the biceps curl rebound. The athlete lets go of the weight and moves from the start position into the Iso Extreme position then
returns to the starting position. The only catch is along the returning path the athlete will run into the falling weight. He must absorb the
weight, plus create excess force to overcome the weight and return the weight to the starting position. The full range of motion must be
used for each repetition. This type of exercise also teaches the body to move into the extreme position, but at high velocity. In the Iso
Extreme the muscle groups alternated back and forth as fast as possible. In the rebound each group fires just once. This firing pattern is
very powerful and actually stimulates the antagonist muscle group to relax properly. For example in the biceps curl rebound, the athlete
is starting at a 90 degree elbow flexion position. He lets go of the weight, fully extends his elbows then returns to the starting positions
while catching the weight at the same time. Here we can see the triceps fires very powerfully to extend the arm while actively inhibiting
the biceps. The limit of the triceps to extend the arm is the ability of the biceps to relax. This relaxation is also important because
relaxation is lengthening, which is also recovery. This type of exercise teaches the muscle groups to stimulate recovery of the antagonist.
Unlike the altitude drop, where heavier weights are used, here we start with heavier weights and move to lighter weights. Lighter
weights are harder because the athlete must move much faster. There is a much greater level of coordination involved to let go of the
weight and catch it again.
There are also many other variables and or ways to modify or change the exercises. This all depends on what result you are trying to
create. Remember that with any stimulation there will be a predictable result. That means we know what we should see after an
exercise. If we dont see the result, the stimulus was wrong. Sometimes we give the athlete a bad stimulus as a test to see how he copes
with the stimulus. For example, we may exercise a particular muscle group such as the latissimus dorsi to fatigue, then have the athlete
max in the bench press. The test is to see if the athlete is able to hold position in the bench (shoulders down, chest separated etc.) It
doesnt matter if he can lift the weight as long as he doesnt break position he passes the test.

Great Articles above. I really enjoyed the one about hypoxia with low level work. I don't think hypoxia is causing death of the
mitochondria. It would take hours to create enough hypoxia in the area to produce cell death from training alone. Although training
(maintaining a constant muscle contraction) does cause mild hypoxia there still is a small amount of blood flow. But this may help
explain while doing Iso metric work causes faster changes in the strength of the muscle then regular training.
I was thinking that in a hypoxic situation the break down of glycogen to pyruvate and then to lactic acid may cause such a high level of
acid in the muscle that maybe it could actually be damaging to the structure. But now I don't think that.
I don't actually do very much of the training with my team. Mostly stick with the injuries. But I have trained some other teams. (Track
and field). I used the Isometric work every single day. Although the kids felt "heavy" like you described they all ran faster, or could lift
more each day. I also found that after a rest period the kids would have a super compensation. Their abilities were even more
heightened. I would train them each day with Isometrics, then switch the exercises a few days before a big track meet with the aim of
super compensating on the day of the track meet. It worked really well. But there were also many track meets I didn't do this for. The
reason being that the longer I could train them daily the bigger super compensation I got. If I super compensated them each week for
the upcoming meet the difference was small. If I waited 2-3 weeks, then there was a very large improvement. I also found following the
track meet or game the athlete needed a recovery period before beginning the training period.
In Soccer it is different because every game is very important. In order to have the athletes ready to perform at the top you may need a
different training cycle. Try to think of the training as the stimulus and the response occurs in the time following the training.
I will try to talk with a few poeple at the team tomorrow and find their opinions.
Ciao Ciao

Dr J.,
I would like to discuss your difference in opinion (with Jay) regarding how to properly execute iso extremes. I struggled with (and
perhaps continue to) this issue myself for a while now, as I think you know.
You argue that one should pull maximally into position (agonist) while still contracting the lengthened antagonist so that the athlete has
approximately 1" to go before hitting rock bottom. Rock bottom, you argue, would occur if performing a static stretch or just pulling into
position without activating the antagonist. The problem I see with this approach is that as time proceeds, and one fatigues, there will be
less and less pulling with agonist and more and more bracing with the antagonist and one tries to maintain the position. That is, when
using bodyweight, I may be able to pull violently with the agonist initially, as the 'fresh' antagonist can produce sufficient force to
counteract the force of gravity and the contracting agonist. However, as metabolic byproducts accumulate, the force output of the
antagonist will decrease, yet gravity remains the same. Thus, to maintain position without collapsing, one would (perhaps
unconsciously) reduced the pulling force of the agonist. You could then argue, that at this point, one should cease the exercise, rest, and
perform subsequent sets as you've suggested. But such an approach leaves a lot of room for guesswork, in my opinion. When does one
decide to cease the exercise? That is, my position could still appear correct (e.g. pushup - shoulders down, chest elevated, pecs
separated from sternum, upper arm at 45 degree angle relative to side, lower arm perpendicular to floor), but I'd now be doing purely
an isometric hold. Under such circumstances, where the agonist is no longer contracting or contracting much less than beginning, would
not the 15 Hz oscillation you described as vital to the power of iso extremes then be diminished?
Now, I can see your argument against not contracting the antagonist, assuming that if one did not volitionally contract the antagonist,
he'd be transferring force into a passive muscle. In such a case, the force to keep you off the ground would have to be supplied by the
connective tissue and specifically the series elastic component (SEC - tendons, fascia, titin, etc.) This could be bad, as you noted, as
stretching not only can weaken connective tissue (creating joint laxity, instability), but also can inhibit subsequent power/force output of
the muscle. Yet this is how jay suggests they be performed, as I understand it...pull as hard as possible into position with agonist, don't
brace at all with antagonist.
My own past confusion was seeded in the issue of alpha-gamma coactivation of the lengthened antagonist, and the claim that iso
extremes are very high velocity contractions. Your idea of a 15 hz oscillation of antagonistic pairs seems like a feasible mechanism to
explain the 'high-velocity claim', but I'd still be interested to see what the action potential frequencies running down the motoneurons
would be. Does sprinting producing higher impulse trains than iso extremes? What about the impulse machine? If so, can iso extremes
still truly be considered high velocity training? Furthermore, we need to distinguish between speed-strength and max velocity as they're
not the same trait (though perhaps a force-velocity spectrum is more appropriate than thinking of a force-velocity dichotomy). But to
get back to my point regarding alpha-gamma coactivation, it is obvious that a lengthened muscle will have the potential for greater
afferent feedback from the Type Ia (bag) and Type II (chain) intrafusal fibers. Because iso extremes don't, however, have a dynamic
stretch, the afferent feedback would not be as great as say an altitude drop/rebound. Furthermore, my biggest point of contention was
that without volitional efferent drive to the motoneuron (think EDI), the afferent feedback would still not be as great. Thus the alphagamma coactivation of a lengthened antagonist in iso extremes would be far less than when performing something like an EDI where
there is a maximal voluntary contraction of the lengthened muscle.
This study is a potential resolution to the issue
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3434629
(sorry, don't know if full article is available online, but it is in american journal of physical medicine if you have access. I also have it in pdf
file, so email your email address if you want a copy. my email is ben.rothrauff@gmail.com)
What I think the big finding is that pulling with agonist actually increased EMG activity of stretched antagonist. So Sherrington's
reciprocal inhibition is not all that appropriate in this case, or rather the basic reflexes can't always be applied as directly as has been
done in the past). If such an explanation were applied to iso extremes, pulling maximally would reflexively increase firing of the
antagonist, possibly avoiding some of the issues you suggested concerning stretching. But equally important to note is that an EMG
signal of 55% (relative to EMG during max voluntary contraction of antagonist) was attained when maximally contracting agonist to
stretch antagonist. So my contention of submaximal alpha-gamma coactivation during iso extremes appears valid, at least for untrained
subjects, as used in this study. Who knows what would be happening in elite athletes. Maybe there's a study.
Anyone, feel free to comment. I could keep typing, but this is long enough, and hopefully some questions will allow me to focus my
contribution to the conversation. I also have some questions/thoughts about altitude drops/rebounds, but that can wait.
Misa - I will check out your many articles over the next few days, though I've read many of them. Thanks for your efforts.
As a side note, I'm BenR on the WGF forum. I don't comment a lot, but follow the threads.

Ben,
As you know, Jay gives the athlete the least amount of information about how to do an exercise properly. Then he lets them struggle
with the exercise for months or even years trying to feel the exercise. Because of this no one really knows how to do any of the
exercises. But through discussions with some of the athletes who have actually felt the training I have also reached my understanding.
I think your conclusion of when you feel the agonist stop pulling you need to stop the exercise, rest, then repeat until the total time of
300 seconds is reached. Sure there is some subjective parameters involved, but that is where the athletes participation comes into it.
Sitting there in a position for 5 minutes using the wrong muscles is not the participation needed. The athlete cant rely on the coach to
tell him when to stop, he must feel it on his own. So what happens?
You pull maximally, you get tired, you stop, rest, then repeat. Eventually your are able to do your 10 sets of 30 seconds, but then
something happens. What is it? You pull down into position and then you notice that you cant go 30 seconds anymore. Why? Because
you are pulling now with a much greater force then you were before. So you fatigue quicker. So now you start again. Sets of 30-second
reps 10 times. Eventually you finally get to the point where you can do it, but then bam. You turn on even harder and you realize you
cant do it anymore. This is the secret. Turning on as hard a possible. You will never be able to turn on as hard a possible for 5 minutes
because you run out of energy. But you will be able to turn on harder and harder for a shorter time. This is the athlete participation.
Who always wins, the fast. Not the one who can hold the longest. To be fast you need to turn on harder.
I also read the article you posted. The goal of using the Iso extreme position is not to create an inhibition of the antagonist muscle. The
goal is to teach the muscles to work together to stabilize the joint. This can only occur if all the muscles are contracting. Remember that
the position is the end ROM (almost), couple that with a feeling, the brain does the rest automatically. Meaning that it will always know
what muscles to use to get to the end ROM, no matter the beginning position.

Joe,
Sorry for the very very very slow reply. Anyways. CNS Fatigue. Good question. With CNS fatigue you need to differentiate muscle fatigue
signs and symptoms from CNS fatigue. The big difference is that with a muscle, the basic principle is to work the muscle to full fatigue,
then the muscle will respond to meet the demand in the future by growing stronger. This is how we train muscles. Any training which
does not take the muscle to the "end" will not have a high enough stimulus to cause the muscle to grow. It will actually have the
opposite effect of allowing the muscle to degenerate.
With CNS fatigue it is different. When you stimulate a neuron or group of neurons you need to make sure there is fuel. Glucose and
oxygen. With plenty of fuel you can start to create a stimulus, but the stimulus must be within the range of frequency the neuron can
handle, not more. As a neuron fires it will start to replicate protein and slowly get stronger and stronger. This will allow it to slowly
handle more and more stimulation. If a neuron is stimulated beyond its level it will swell with water and explode, Dying permanently. Or,
if it is stimulated within its frequency, but runs out of fuel, the same thing will happen.
So normally while looking for CNS fatigue you need to try to look at pools of neurons that loose their function, or are fatiguing very
quickly. Typically I look at the eyes. Since the nervous system can fatigue in just one little area an easy thing to do is look at pupil size.
One eye bigger then the other could be a sign.
It is really difficult to say "signs of nervous system fatigue" because there are so many other variables. For example, if the cortex fatigues,
there will be a loss of sympathetic inhibitory signals, which would be noted by an increase in sympathetic function. Typically goose
bumps, or flushing of the skin. So in this case, we get a hyper function, caused by fatigue of another area rather then a loss of function.
Normally training (muscles) will not be able to cause a high enough stimulus to cause nervous system fatigue. The muscle fatigue would
be the limiting factor, and the nervous system would have the ability to go beyond that. This is in a normal person, a person with a
compromised nervous system could have nervous system fatigue just by moving their eyes into the wrong position.
Training with the ARP can cause enough nervous stimulation to cause fatigue. This would be noted the next day as 1. feeling the ARP on
0/20, 2. not being able to progress past 2.0 power. 3. A manic or depressive mood. This is why it is only recommended by me to use the
ARP for recovery, preparation, and short training sessions. Using the ARP on 0/20 is a good way to help the recovery of the neurons
though. That is why treatments and training are followed by 5-10 min of 0/20.
OK. Well I hope I answered your questions. If not, let me know and I will try again.

Jerome,
I fully believe that a 5 min. lunge done correctly is impossible because as you progress beyond 45 seconds the type of fuel available for
muscle contraction is produced too slowly. The number of contractions per second drops off, which also means the intensity of the
contractions decreases drastically. So now no matter how hard the athlete tries to pull, the contractions will not be maximum. I think to
see that the athlete is doing it correctly, they should fatigue around 30 seconds. If they maintain the position they are fakers.
One nice thing about being human is the ability to control and modify our reflexes. That is why the mental participation is necessary.
Even with very powerful co-contraction, combining with mental participation, equals anything you want to do. The options are limitless.
I think it is better to cortically modulate our reflexes to serve us, rather then be a reflexive being.

Joe,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The comments about over thinking the exercises are so true. Everyone wants to analyze every
aspect of the exercise until it's not even an exercise any more. That is a huge problem. People don't need to know why it works, or if the
exact position is caused from what muscles pulling. Just picture your end, while you are in the position and (like you said) the brain does
everything else.
I will tell you though, concentrating on the PIPES, like you should, is more exhausting then doing the stupid lunge.
Thinking about your position takes away from PIPES, which decreases the effectiveness of the training.
I'm glad someone finally commented on the seminar. I was waiting.
n that position, you're squeezing your abs. Scapula are retracted (down and back towards your hips) per the correct position for most
iso's, and they should raise off the ground in the crunch. You should be crunching as high as possible while maintaining the correct leg
position (thighs perpendicular to ground. shins parallel).
I'm glad to hear you made some good progress with your iso's. It's also amazing to me how many players actually do stagnate or get
slower during college. Those are years when you can make some huge gains, and it seems like they're wasted. Your emphasis on pulling
is good too; that's the whole key. Most people get so side-tracked on the 5 minutes thing that they just fight through it and never get the
benefit of doing right. 30 seconds correct is much better than 300 seconds wrong.
You can certainly do iso's for those five weeks and make progress. Just bear in mind that iso's aren't the end. They're meant to train you
to become efficient so that you can express all of the strength that you have inside of you. For that reason, we have to constantly
monitor to be sure that the adaptations from the iso's are transferring to useful endeavors. Your sprint times, for example. Another way
to monitor how you're progressing is to introduce other forms of training, like altitude drops. If you're iso's are working, you should be
able to perform altitude drops more effectively (pulling aggressively, stopping quickly and in perfect position). When you have achieved
some degree of proficiency in your extreme iso positions, and that means different things to different people, I would start adding in
altitude drops.
Also, here is the sequence of iso extremes as taught by Jay. I recommend sticking relatively close to this order, as many of the exercises
help your body recover from the previous exercises or potentiate for the following one.
-Lunge
-Standing Hamstring
-Wall Squat
-1 Leg Squat
-Push-up
-Preacher Curl
-Scapular Pull-up
It is important to do all of them, because your body works as a unit and muscles on both sides of all your major joints need to know how
to work together for stability and efficient mobility.
For what it's worth: If you were training with me during that period and demonstrated proficiency in your iso's in the first two weeks, I'd
switch to a alt drop-iso hold methodic. For example, pull yourself aggressively into a push-up altitude drop style, iso extreme for 10
seconds, then push up and repeat.
Steven,
I have been coaching track and field for over 8 years now. I never use my ARP machines with the team. Mostly because of the liability of
using it on school grounds. Anyways. I do 5 min of ISO push-up, followed by 5 min lunge on each leg. Then we do a normal practice. At
the end of the practice I have every one do 5 min. of Standing glut/ham. That is it, and I have never had a muscle related injury in the
whole 8 years.
Dr. J.
Steven,
Go do a leg extension test for a 1 rep max. Then do a Leg curl for a 1 rep max. After those two tests, you will know why there isn't much
effort put on the quad. Especially when the keep to speed and power is the hamstring.
When I do the Standing glut ham (right or wrong) I pull down with the abs and hip flexors, and then use the glut's and hamstring to pull
the feet into the ground like if I was trying to pull my feet backwards like a standing long jump.
Quad contraction comes from the standing straight leg raise. What a beast of an exercise.

Standing on one foot and keeping the spine and pelvis in an aligned and neutral position, flex the other hip to 90 degrees of hip flexion
with the knee also at 90 degrees of flexion. Next try to extend the knee as much as possible while simultaneously maintain the 90
degrees of hip flexion. Hold the position.
As fatigue sets in the lower leg should slowly move back to the original position of 90 hip, 90 knee. Try to fight this movement. At no
time should the thigh be moved up or down. It is critical that it maintains the position of 90 degree hip flexion.
When 90 degrees of knee flexion is finally reached you may stop the exercise.
It is very uncomfortable and difficult. Have fun. Let me know what you experience.
Dr. J.