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Modern Catch As Catch Can: Written By Kris Iatskevich - Damage Control MMA
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[http://damagecontrolmma.bizlift1.netdnacdn.com/wpcontent/uploads/2009/08/Eddy.jpg]
Eddy Wiecz Carpentier
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(you can see the half boston crab in a MMA fight at 6:00 in, in the clip above)
Much like today, the Catch wrestlers of old were always looking for new ways to pin and
submit their opponents. Their livelihood depended on it. In the past, these men dedicated
themselves to the very real tradition of wrestling and engaged in completely real
professional bouts. Furthermore, this wrestling was not the collegiate, free style or GrecoRoman wrestling we see today. It was submission wrestling, using techniques these men
called hooks
These submission wrestlers, called hookers, shooters, pistols by those in their trade,
were the sort of men who sought real challenges and were not afraid to learn or show
anything, Of course, this lead to a blend of wrestling styles. European styles mixed with
Russian, Indian, and Japanese styles. So anyone claiming to know the true system of
CACC is either ignorant or trying to confine it to a mould that never existed before. There
is no one way of doing things, only principles and rules for you to use and play with.
These principles and rules are what define Catch as Catch Can Wrestling and give it its
unique flavour. I do admit that there are some Catch techniques and set ups that I have
yet to find in other grappling systems, but what really sets it apart are the underlying
principles behind the techniques, the philosophy of the art if you will.
After making its way to North America, around the end of the 19th century, the English
Lancashire CACC wrestling style was blended with the rough and tumble American
mentality of the era and a more aggressive catch-as-catch-can style of wrestling emerged,
creating some of the most outstanding grapplers of that period.
In all the annals of history you would be hard pressed to find tougher and more skilled
mat men than the Catch-As-Catch-Can Wrestlers. These old time shooters took on all
comers from all over the world and emerged victorious through a flood of blood, sweat,
tears, and broken bones.
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[http://damagecontrolmma.bizlift1.netdna-cdn.com/wpcontent/uploads/2009/08/CatchToeHold.jpg]
You can get a feel for the type of person who would study
this art back in the day.
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content/uploads/2009/08/CatchWrestlingPoster.JPG]
Here you see typical wrestling holds,
arm bars similar to in jiu-jitsu, and
throws found in sambo
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[http://damagecontrolmma.bizlift1.netdna
-cdn.com/wpcontent/uploads/2009/08/CatchWrestlingAd.jpg]
An ad for a "Catch As Catch Can"
Wrestling Bout
Karl Gotch after honing his skills at the infamous Snake pit in Wigan were he learned
CACC, travelled to india and studied Pehlwani (Indian Wrestling) and then to Japan were he
studied Judo and Sumo. My coach Edouard Wiecz Carpentier, , practiced Greco Roman
Wrestling, Boxing and Savate before turning his attention to Catch as Catch Can. Later, he
also became an avid Judo player.
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Much like many of their contemporaries, these men were cross training even before we
had coined a term for it.
I often thought that, were Karl Gotch, Billy Robinson, Edouard Wiecz and many of the old
time greats in their prime today, they would be at the forefront of MMA fighting, as it is
results oriented instead of performance oriented like pro wrestling. Given their training
and dedication, they would have been at the top of the mma food chain.
Unfortunately, while many of the Old Timers kept a
very open mind towards training. Some coaches
today seem to adopt a very dogmatic approach to
teaching.
[http://damagecontrolmma.bizlift1.netdna
-cdn.com/wpcontent/uploads/2009/08/Eddy-PaulLeduc-Bob-legs-Langevin.JPG]
Eddy Wiecz Carpentier, Paul Leduc,
Bob "Legs" Langevin
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That is why it is called Scientific Wrestling; test it, prove it, use it, teach it to others to help
them.
These men will champion catch (their own brand of catch) and will have proven beyond a
shadow of a doubt that they know their subject. It is truly an exciting time!
Exciting times indeed!
As an addendum to the original article, Coach Iatskevich asked me to include the following
links for reference:
first is an article written in 1905 and debates catch wrestling vs Jiu jitsu
http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_leonard_0802.htm
[http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_leonard_0802.htm]
second Is an overlook of the history of MMA and it,s link to catch wrestling
http://www.kocosports.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=18493&z=9
[http://www.kocosports.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=18493&z=9]
third is the story of Ad Santel vs judo
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/ad-santel-and-catching-our-history-11623
[http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/ad-santel-and-catching-our-history-11623]
From Kris Iatskevich: I know some of these stories seem a bit negative,I personally dont
like comparing systems. But what you get from them. is the understanding of how much
these arts influenced each other.
Kris Iatskevich has studied different fighting arts for the last 30 + years.
Catch Wrestling under the guidance of Eddy Wiecz Carpentier since 96
Lead Instructor for the Scientificwrestling.com certification program
Black Belt and Regional rep. for SAW (submission arts wrestling) Hidetaka Aso
Black Belt Judo
Canadian rep for FIAS Sambo
President of Catch Wrestling Canada Association
Owner and Head coach of the Quebec Toe hold Club
You can learn more about him, his system and more at his official website:
http://www.catchwrestlingcanada.com/ [http://www.catchwrestlingcanada.com/]
__________________________________________________________________
As a final note from me (Brian Yamasaki), I would like to add that I own both of Coach
Iatskevichs Competition Catch as Catch Can DVDs and consider them some of the best
DVDs I own. They contain an enormous amount of useful information and give a fresh
perspective to the art of Submission Wrestling. I highly recommend either or both of
these wonderful volumes.
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[http://www.catchwrestlingcanada.com/spec_sheet.html?
catalog[product_guids][0]=c1db38d2-5213-4c9889ef-7b62b47ca278]
Competition Catch As Catch Can Volume 1
[http://www.catchwrestlingcanada.com/spec_sheet.html?
catalog[product_guids][0]=90f19948-1e2c-4c8ebf4a-74d97dfcff24]
Competition Catch As Catch Can Volume 2
Related Posts:
The Catch Wrestling Shin Lock [http://damagecontrolmma.com/2009/07/the-catchwrestling-shin-lock/]
Keeping Catch Wrestling Alive [http://damagecontrolmma.com/2010/12/keeping-catchwrestling-alive/]
MMA Catch Wrestling Technique: The Gotch Toe Hold
[http://damagecontrolmma.com/2011/10/mma-catch-wrestling-technique-the-gotchtoe-hold/]
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Tags: Cage Fighting, Catch as Catch Can, Catch Wrestling, Kris Iatskevich, Leg Locks, MMA, Neck
Cranks, Old School Wrestling, Pro Wrestling, Sambo, Spine Locks, Submission Wrestling, Toe Holds
MMA
Techniques:
The Snatch
Single Leg
MMA
Techniques:
The Snatch
Speak
Softly And
Carry A Big
Kick
Single Leg
A Solid
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Game For
Takedowns
and
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A Solid
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Game For
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and
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Speak
Softly And
Carry A Big
Kick
Our MMA
Students in
Action Nasty
Knockouts
and
Omoplata
Arm Break
Our MMA
Students in
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4 Principles
That
Changed
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4 Principles
That
Changed
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Game
Billy
Robinson:
Turn In
Stand Up
From
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Billy
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Great article and nice laying out of the lineage in a short, but informative fashion.
Kris is an absolute credit to not only Catch, but to the grappling/mma community.
Id like to also echo the sentiments regarding the dvd series.. it is one of the most
exhaustive series on the subject.. I consider it part of my Holy Trinity of catch tutorials..
the other two being WAR: Catch Wrestling Lessons with Billy Robinson and the Yoshiaki
Fujiwara Submission Master Clinic.
Im honored to also consider Kris a very dear friend.
Thanks for sharing this guys.
Reply
Martin Roy
August 31, 2009 at 6:54 am
Yes,
Kevin, you said it all!
Reply
wylothar
Great article, I like to see how close the ideology of Sambo and Catch relate. If it works
they will use it and make it part of them.
Coach kris iatskevich recently also became an advisory position for the American Sambo
Association. The ASA is going to soon have a Catch/ Sambo DVD coming out soon with
Coach Iatskevich and Coach Stephen Koepher president of the ASA.
http://www.ussambo.com.
With the high praise for these video series. The will be high on my list to get. Probably
next.
Reply
KevinDillard
September 3, 2009 at 6:45 am
I went back and watched the match with the Boston Crab finish in the second.. does
anyone understand what the yellow card foul was supposed to be in the first round?.. I
know the fighter pulling guard punched the other guy in the face/ear, but not sure what
about that constituted a foul?
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Reply
Coach Randy
Judo, Sambo , Wrestling (Freestyle/Greco Roman/Folk style) , Catch as Catch Can and BJJ
Hey Brian, may I ask whered you find the time to learn all of this or are you still in the
process of learning it all? Do you mind telling your readers how much time youve spent
with each style? Thank you.
Reply
Dr Sick
Coach Randy,
I am a full time student of the arts. I find time anywhere and everywhere I can, and make
time whenever possible. Its not easy. Not for anyone, myself included. I just do as much as
I can, when I can. And I am definitely STILL IN THE PROCESS OF LEARNING. I dont think Ill
ever learn it all. Nor do I want to.
Guro Inosanto likes to tell us about the Stay Green Mentality. Once a fruit ripens, it can
then only grow stale and rot. Learning, especially in the Martial Arts is a constant process,
your game changes and evloves, peoples ideas change and cycles eb and flow. Age
changes you and you must adapt to it in order to keep up and stay healthy.
The more I know, the more I know I dont know. Ive spent a fair amount of time (its hard
to qualify) with Judo. My Grandfather was a 3rd Degree Black Belt. My Father is a 2nd
Degree which he earned at the Kodokan Institute in Japan. I never took formal lessons
from either of them, but I grew up around it and soak up as much as I can when possible
(my Father no longer actively practices).
Ive never taken a formal Sambo class. Id love to, given the oportunity. What I know about
it is only what Ive read and learned from the internet.
I wrestled my second year of Jr. High (and was terrible I think I only won 1 match). I
restarted my formal wrestling studies in 2004 via seminar under Ricco Chiapparelli and
again with him in 2005 along with Sean Sherk. In 2006 we would occasionally bring Chris
Wells out to Mushin Self Defense to teach once in a blue moon. After that Chris began
teaching takedowns at the Bernales Institute on Wednesday nights. Ive worked with him
whenever possible since that time (about 2007). He has been a really good friend and
wonderful teacher to me.
Catch As Catch Can is the most recent art to tickle my fancy. Id seen it there and there on
the internet and such, and to be honest, it had a real influence on Shooto which was the
Art the Sensei Erik Paulson began studying and teaching before he began Combat
Submission Wrestling. So bits and pieces of it have been in the mix since I began studying
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CSW in 2000-2001 with Brandon Kiser. But my study of it in its own right, for CACCs own
sake as opposed to aspects of it within the contexts of CSW really began in 2009 when Jake
Shannon moved from CA to UT and needed a place to host a Billy Robinson seminar.
Since that time I have attended 2 (1 Day) seminars with Billy Robinson and picked Jake
Shannons brain whenever possible. Kris Iatskevich has been a helpful correspondant
online, but as of yet I have not had the opportunity to train with him in person.
I began my study of BJJ in 1999 with my Cousin Kelly Sheffield at the Seattle School of BJJ
under Glen Barber (I think that was his last name). I travelled up there to train at the
school twice over a two year period. My cousin would come out UT and update me once or
twice a year as well. In 2000-2001 I began training under my current, primary instructor
Will Bernales (BJJ Black Belt), I began with privates and then joined his group classes and
have been with him ever since. Under Khuen Khru Will I study Muay Thai, CSW, BJJ, Kali,
JKD and a little Silat. Since 2000 I have supplemented my BJJ training under Khuen Khru
Will with seminars with: Jean Jacques Machado, Rigan Machado, Royce Gracie, Professor
Pedro Sauer, Steve Maxwell, Alex Derizans, and Nick Diaz. Each week I take a BJJ lesson
either from Khuen Khru Will, Mike Diaz (BJJ Black Belt), Chris Wells (BJJ Black Belt), or Paul
Sizemore (BJJ Black Belt). I am currently a first stripe Blue Belt in BJJ.
My main areas of study are CSW and Muay Thai which Ive studied under Khuen Khru Will
(Full Instructor TBA Muay Thai) and Ajarn Surachai Sirisute since 2000. I have since
achieved an Associate Instructorship in Thai Boxing Association Muay Thai. Currently, I
take 1 lesson in Muay Thai every week under Khuen Khru Will Bernales. I have also
supplemented my Muay Thai Training with 6 or 7 (I cant remember off the top of my head)
week long Thai Camps with Ajarn Chai, Ajar Inosanto, and Ajarn Greg Nelson as well as the
rest of the TBA senior and full instructors. In addition to 8 seminars with Ajarn Chai here in
UT. Ive also studied the TBA method of AP (American Pugilism) Boxing (one of the TBAs
component parts).
I have studied CSW since 2000 as well under Brandon Kiser (Utah State CSW
Representative), Coach Will Bernales, Ajarn Greg Nelson and Sensei Erik Paulson. I have
achieved a rank of Coach Level 3. I am currently taking 2 lessons a week in CSW. One
under Coach Kiser and 1 under Khuen Khru Will Bernales. I have supplemented this with 5,
3 day CSW camps in CA with Sensei Paulson, Ajarn Greg Nelson, and whomever he brings
out as guest instructors (Sifu Larry Hartsell, Ricco Chiaparelli, Sean Sherk, Marvin Cook). In
addition I have attended 3 seminars in Utah under Sensei Paulson.
In passing Ive worked on Kali and Silat (more Kali than Silat), as well as picked up a Brown
Belt in Taekwon-Do.
I think that every art has something to offer and every teacher can give you a real unique
insight into the game. I try to keep an open mind and train in as much as I can. I am saving
Kali, Yoga and Tai Chi for my older days when I am no longer able to move as well in the
more combative, contact oriented arts a time that has been creeping up on me fast!
As my Instructor Khuen Khru Will likes to say, its not the years its the hours. I studied
under Khuen Khru two or three times as much in my younger years but since that time,
family commitments and running my own school have slowed me down a bit. But I feel
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that constant and consistent training under skilled instructors such as Khuen Khru Will and
my other mentors is essential to continued growth and progress.
Reply
Dr Sick
I also have to thank all those who have contributed to the efforts to Damage Control MMA
and Taking It To The MMAT, I have learned a great deal from these contributors and their
wonderful techniques! Thank you!!!
Reply
Coach Randy
Ok Brian/Dr, Sick,
Im still catching my breath from reading your resume or life time committment of
learning, however I do commend you. I dont exactly agree with Dan Inosantos
explanation of Once a fruit ripens, it can then only grow stale and rot. If you follow
football, the ever popular Wildcat Formation is really stemmed from the old Double Wing
Formation with tweaks in rotations, motion and formation. I know this is a forum about
Kris Iatskevichs history and explanation of CACC but it parallels what I just described
about the Wildcat Offense. Basically influence, education, assimilation, progression and
execution determines the finish product. I wish you all the best in your lifetime endeavor
of the martial arts.
I for one do not have the time, money or interest to dabble into other styles UNLESS I
know it can compliment my concepts, style, philosophy and overall objective-WINNING.
Reply
Dr Sick
Coach Randy,
May I respectfully ask, what if the game changes? If everyone adhered to the ripened fruit
mentality, wed still be seeing granny shots in basketball. The slam dunk was not created
by those who allowed themselves to be content with a ripened view of the game and their
own potential. The ripened vision of basketball would never have allowed for the
development of the post up and triangle offense. The game has shifted due to zone vs. no
zone defense being allowed and disallowed.
In MMA, the game has also seen changes over the years which can cause a shift in tactics
and training. The addition of time limits is a big factor IMHO. No longer is it a question of
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whether or not you can submit or knock someone out. Its a question of whether or not
you can submit or knock someone out in 5 minutes or less (for pros). If you keep training
fighters to use the wait it out style prevelent in the early days I dont think its going to
help anyones objectives of winning.
Judo has just recently outlawed any wrestling style leg shots. This will change the game.
How it is scored, how it is played, and how it is practiced and trained. Those fixed on the
old way of doing things will be left in the past, those who adapt and develop new
strategies and tactics based on the new rule structures will be the ones in the winning
circle. This requires change, and a mindset accustomed to new ways of thinking and
perceiving advantages.
Regardless of the sport, I think a continued education is very helful in creating a winning
strategy. You may not use the new material for your own game, but you are at least
familiar with how someone else may attack you. Take the Rubber Guard stuff for
example. Whether you use it or not, it is helpful to be familiar with it so that you
understand the mindset and capabilities of your opponents.
Im not disagreeing with you. Im asking a question and offering other points of view. There
are those who can ripen, stop their education and win everything they do. I am not one of
them. But to be honest, winning isnt my primary personal goal. I just enjoy learning the art
for the art sake. Im in it to meet wonderful people. That is how I feel I win.
Best of luck and thank you for supporting Damage Control MMA.
Reply
Coach Randy
Brian/Dr. Sick
What you had stated basically agrees with what I had stated;
the ever popular Wildcat Formation is really stemmed from the old Double Wing
Formation with tweaks in rotations, motion and formation
As to your question, what if the game changes? for which I had stated;
Basically influence, education, assimilation, progression and execution determines the
finishED (typo error) product. However, its never truly finished as people will come up
with schemes to defend it for which its is your responsibility to counter-the-counter. As
Billy Robinson had said in an interview, Physical chess match.
I wasnt there when you spoke to Dan Inosanto and perhaps there should be more
clarification but Im going by what you had stated in an earlier post and I just dont agree
with the ripened fruit theory. If you met my wife, she will take ripe fruit and make wine;
mince/chop it up for homemade ice cream flavors, make cakes and pies or pickle them for
a later date. Basically, if you feel your fruit has ripened much to say like how some people
refer to themselves as being old school then I can see where you can grow stale, not just
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for your own sake but for your students/athletes as well. I for one make adjustments on a
need-only basis not to go along with the old cliche of If it aint broke, dont fix it! but it is
my duty to asses needs and weaknesses.
Another thing you have to understand, if you are learning/doing just to meet people,
personal development or as a hobby you are defnitely in a different scope than I am or
any other coach for that matter. People can tolerate a loss here and there, continued
losing will not only force you to take a look at yourself, youll be out of a job!
Reply
Coach Randy
I am a full time student of the arts. . .The more I know, the more I know I dont know.
Brian/Dr. Sick
You stated the following above. This is just a suggestion if/when you decide to do it, its up
to you. Get a stack of flash cards-since you study alot of arts then get a very big stack.
Write every SINGLE move you know from CACC-BJJ-Boxing-Muay Thai-Judo-Kali-Silat-Tae
Kwon Do & Wrestling.
Based on your own personal proficiency of each move score it from 1-10. Each card scored
10-9, have it rubber banded and set to the side. Each card scored 8-6, do the same BUT
put a post it note on it saying, WORK ON IT. Each card scored 5-1, just rubber band it and
put a post it note on it saying, FOR A LATER DATE.
Put yourself in situations like distance, positions, height, weight, strength
advantages/disadvantages and see how 10-6 stood the test. Keep a journal of your
findings.
Best to you.
Reply
MABookGeek
Great Article. Do you happen to know the source material for that CACC poster? It looks
like its from a French book. I like to collect old Judo/Jiujitsu/Grappling books, thats why I
ask.
Reply
Sylvain
December 12, 2009 at 11:48 am
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