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I'm not trying to reproduce an authentic version of anything, simply adding another shooter to my collection.
Replies:
Posted By: gundoctor
Date Posted: April 06 2008 at 12:19pm
Well, I'll start with the barrel. Turn it down into a little bit of a taper. Needed to add some length to get 16"--so I did so with some 1" rod
which I welded on the barrel. I then shaped this into a "compensator" which will keep the finished product from looking too long. I simply
bored out the "compensator" and cut some slots across it with a small endmilll.
------------Fraternitas in Armum
Top: original Suomi bolt. Middle: pieces prepared for new bolt. Bottom: cut off / discarded part of suomi bolt. I stripped the suomi bolt
and cut if off with a chop saw. Prepared it for a AR15 firing pin setup. And turned the rear portion down to 7/8". Then I used a piece of
square stock to make the bolt body. It was center drilled for the recoil spring and slotted to clear the hammer. Then the front was drilled
7/8" to accept the cut off suomi bolt. I used an endmill to drill this hole the final diameter so it would be flat bottomed.
"ease", but intend to make the final version in steel so I can blue it.
------------Fraternitas in Armum
------------Fraternitas in Armum
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What are you using here in this picture for the trunnion? I can see the front part of the feed ramp, but how is this all going to come together?
------------Nitegunner
Keep legal, stay free & support our 2nd Amendment
you recognized.
To keep the lines of the original thompson the barrel bore would not be centered but near the top of the receiver, and I might change that
before I finish the build. I am showing the prototyping as it occurs to stimulate discussion and interest.
I have considered having a new trunnion / forward receiver investment cast is there is enough interest in the build by others.
pin out the back of the bolt if needed. Hope this makes sense.
That said, your idea is workable if you leave the bolt head removable to access the firing pin.
Doc
No.. this is very interesting. You are going to have a lot of people watching this one.
------------Nitegunner
Keep legal, stay free & support our 2nd Amendment
------------Semper Fi,
Sean
"If people don't kill people, but guns do kill people; Does that mean I can blame my pen for the mistakes that I make when Im writing?"
This shows my firing pin retainer hole. They are real buggers to drill. I built a drill fixture and it has a drill bushing on the top and bottom.
Because I am drilling into a hole, I have to drill from both sides or the drill would shatter. Hi Roc drills are expensive. I destroyed five drills
doing seven bolts. That was a painful lesson. I drill to the center of the firing pin hole and then stop.
------------Tommerr
<br><br>
<br><br>The bolt is discolored because I
annealed it before drilling, intending to reharden and polish it later. That is a M11 9mm recoil spring. This would also be a good setup to
use if you want to do a striker fired build as you would use another spring in the middle for your striker.<br>
The original suomi front receiver pieces were rewelded usiing an internal steel mandrel, and then squared to 1".
The lugged front of the
trunnion was turned down round, and a piece of 1" square stock was drilled to slide over it and welded to the receiver shoulder and front of
the trunnion. I then drilled out the mandrel (which of course was welded to the receiver in the reweld process. This prevented it from ever
being contraband. The entire assembly was then slipped partway into a piece of 1 1/4" x .120 wall square tubing (i.e. the receiver tube for
the original gun with a 1" square bolt) and welded all around, including the cut outs for the original mag well and ejection port.
Another
piece of 1" sq stock was then grooved and welded to the front to provide a place for the forend mounting bar and support for the original
feed ramp / forward mag well which was removed from the suomi front filler. I shaped it to please my eye.
This assembly will now slide into the 1 1/2" x .120 wall tubing (i.e. 1 1/4" bolt size) that will be the suomi thompson receiver. It will then be
welded all around, including the ejection port and mag well.
A lot of trouble, and not the best but this is just prototyping by picking up stuff on the workbench and figuring out how to make it work and
look like I wanted. I think I will mill the top of the trunnion to keep the receiver topline straight before assembly (will require a new bolt
body to keep the bolt head centered with the bore).
Tomerr, the chemistry would help on the bolts to allow more flexibility in working with them if they can be safely annealled and
rehardened. Testing steels for chemistry is out of my purview.
I did not anneal the bolt for the suomi thompson. I cut it with a cut off saw (abrasive) with a wet rag around the bolt head. I then used the
lathe to face the rear of the cut off bolt head. This is the same way that I cut and reweld mauser bolts and receivers to shorten them without
changing the heat treatment in the critical areas (receiver ring and locking lugs of bolt).
I do not intend to weld on the bolt head, but planned to use some short pins that are inserted through the bolt body into it--these pins will
then be welded over (but the welding will be pin / bolt body, not to the bolt head. This will "capture" the bolt head in the bolt body. In this
way I hope to maintain the intergrity of the suomi bolt head and its heat treatment. These pins will not take the force of recoil, as that will be
borne by the shoulder in the bolt body.
As an alternative, I am considering leaving the bolt two piece and using a single cross pin to both retain the bolt head to bolt body and the
firing pin.
I've welded on the receiver pieces a good bit, and my guess is that these are mild steel in that they weld very good with none of the spitting
and brittleness usually associated with higher carbon steels.
I am already wanting to change it to 7.62x25 and use the PPSH drum--I just really like plinking with the Romanian surplus.
going to make one in that caliber.
I am definately
Here is the FCG and new safety installed. My 14x24 tap came in so I also got the rear grip attached. I measured the angle for the grip bolt
at 55*, and used a transfer punch to insure I got the hole in the right place.
I also fitted the bolt head to the bolt body, and retained it with a single tool steel pin which also serves as a firing pin retainer. This will allow
bolt disassembly if needed. Tommerr is right, drilling a hole through the hole in the hard bolt head for the firing pin retainer is a pain. I used
a carbide endmill, and it fractured when I was nearly finished--I have no idea why--maybe something shifted. It was brand new . I really
like the lower. Next, I need to get the lower attached to the upper and come up with a good magazine catch design. G3 pins (small ones)
are the right length to attach the lower, but I am thinking of a "no lose parts" takedown design.
The safety won't rotate upward to the position needed to remove it unless the lower is swung down away from the upper (like the HK /
CETME). It is in the safe position below--it won't rotate upward to remove when attached to the receiver--and you can see the small,
temporary detent for the fire position. If feels very "ergonomic".
The "t-slot" (cut with woodruff key cutter) in the lower engaging the rear stock mount.
The M1 butt stock has a "hole" for a 0.600 round boss about 1/2" tall at the front screw. I turned a piece to fit this and then threaded it 1/2 x
20 to screw into the rear stock mount (3/8 x 3/4) which I had welded to the receiver. I then threaded this 14x24 for the short stock screw
and using a transfer punch, marked the rear / long stock screw and drilled and tapped it 14x24.
I made a forend iron to fit in the slot I left in the trunnion. I simply made this out of a piece of 1/2 sq stock and tapped it for the forend
screw. I shaped it to make everything fit like I wanted, not to any particular blueprint or design. I haven't attached it yet to the receiver but I
will probably either pin it or screw it.
I also worked on the mag catch. Since the new lower is deeper than the suomi, the mag catch is too short. However, when I looked at it I
had an idea--why not use it anyway and then make something else to actuate it--probably through the forward part of the triggerguard ala
Thompson. Here is the original Suomi mag catch in the recess I milled in the lower. I have not made the other part (to actuate it) yet., but
it may be a simple "button" that protrudes into the trigger guard or I may make a lever like the Thompson.
Here is what it looks like all together. Holding this combination of two of the finest smg's ever made--the Thompson and the Suomi, and
knowing the Thompson wood was likely on Iwo Jima and the Suomi probably killed Communists by the droves makes me feel pretty good
about rescuing some of that history.
The suomi drum is the perfect size for the horizontal forend--i.e., unlike the Thompson drums it is not uncomfortable using the horizontal
forend. To be honest, it feels good.
Yet to do: Forward takedown pin ( in lower). Sights. Shorten rear of receiver about 1/2" / shape and make an "end cap" that includes a
recoil spring guide rod, pin barrel in, pin forend iron in. Finish mag catch., redo welds in trunnion. SHOOT IT! Polish and finish.
Here is why we do this: Some people simply don't respect these fine machines. They destroy them, make them illegal / hard to own, and
look down their noses at those that appreciate them. My hybrid is not really a replica of anything, but it is a tribute to those fine arms
makers who have had their creations intentionally destroyed in the name of "progress".
Mine uses a pps43 bolt, a soumi barrel and a 2xtm magwell. It will take drums or stick mags.
I really like the way you have done the trigger group and I have redesigned mine to more closely resemble the original. Great stuff!
Im waiting on the AR site parts to get a rear sight fabricated. Gundoctor, thanks for the FCG idea. Didnt mean to steal your idea but I couldnt
help it.
Fantastic!
You just convinced me I have to build one of these! Not like I really need another project.
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A HUGE second to dcorb's post, Im already buying parts and supplies to get started
whatever it takes to get ALL the info you have to offer on this project.
Keep us posted.
Jacattak
ps. Do you have any suggestions for repairing a broken extractor on the suomi magwell section ? I was welding the front section back
together and I didn't realize it was PINNED ON
! Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED !
Additionally, I am considering making my own ejectors in the style of the Thompson. This is a simple design that simply screws in--would be
easy to make and then heat treat and I believe would work great with the Suomi bolt in the square tube Suomi-Thompson build.
------------Fraternitas in Armum
broken ejector!!)
I must make an apology to all, I have neglected to say, "new guy here, and I have learned SO MUCH" just snooping the posts before I
joined, you guys have an absolute GALAXY of info, especially for a novice like me. Thank you all.
Looking forward to learning ALL I CAN !!
Jacattak
You have to buy kits and parts when they are available and people haven't figure them out yet. I buy kits for kits, kits for their parts, and
individual parts to make kits. Any of this stuff will only stay cheap and available until (1) enough demand is created for it and/or (2) the
supply dries up (3) the rest of the parts (receivers, compliance parts, barrels, etc) to finish "partial kits" are readily available. Welcome to
1+2+3 for every "parts kit" that I know of. I will wager that buying 200 of anything would be nearly impossible today--while a year ago you
could buy this quantity of just about any kit out there. The one stepchild appears to be the PPSH43, which can be bought sans barrel for less
than the mags are worth. That will last only until someone figures out something neat to do with it.
------------Fraternitas in Armum
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/products/thomsp
1;ns-ta5-pistol/?right=related - http://www.tactical-life.com/online/products/thomspons-ta5-p istol/?right=related
------------if you can't laugh at your OWN mistakes, life isn't worth living
I did not anneal the bolt for the suomi thompson. I cut it with a cut off saw (abrasive) with a wet rag around the bolt head. I then used the
lathe to face the rear of the cut off bolt head. This is the same way that I cut and reweld mauser bolts and receivers to shorten
them without changing the heat treatment in the critical areas (receiver ring and locking lugs of bolt).
I do not intend to weld on the bolt head, but planned to use some short pins that are inserted through the bolt body into it--these pins will
then be welded over (but the welding will be pin / bolt body, not to the bolt head. This will "capture" the bolt head in the bolt body. In this
way I hope to maintain the intergrity of the suomi bolt head and its heat treatment. These pins will not take the force of recoil, as that will be
borne by the shoulder in the bolt body.
As an alternative, I am considering leaving the bolt two piece and using a single cross pin to both retain the bolt head to bolt body and the
firing pin.
I've welded on the receiver pieces a good bit, and my guess is that these are mild steel in that they weld very good with none of the spitting
and brittleness usually associated with higher carbon steels.
The underlined quote above interrests me greatly... can you provide any elaboration, or even photo's? I have thought about this many
times... but was never quite sure it could be done
------------Semper Fi