Professional Documents
Culture Documents
IN RE:
',
A P P E A R A N C E S
For the Debtor:
Teresa Giudice
(Audio Operator:
Transcriber:
Alyson Guida
Isabel ~. Cole
COLE TRANSCRIPTION, L.L.C.
Certified Court Transcribers
P.O. BOX 1216
OCEAN GATE, NEW JERSEY 08740-1216
1-732-237-3200
THE COURT:
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This is number 1
on the calendar.
Good morning, Your Honor
MR. KOPELMAN:
Michael
THE COURT:
MR. SYWILOK:
MR. RAINONE:
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Anthony
Carlos Cuevas
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THE COURT:
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Thank you.
I'll hear
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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there was a $2500 retainer that Mr. Kridel received from the
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cause of action.
We vehemently
D R A F T
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petition events.
THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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Okay.
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unadministered asset.
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There
THE COURT:
the lawsuit?
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MR. SYWILOK:
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THE COURT:
D R A F T
I'm suspecting
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MR. SYWILOK:
THE COURT:
All right.
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MR. SYWILOK:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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There was no
Go ahead.
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case.
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
Yes.
Excuse me.
Hold on.
I'm sorry.
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D R A F T
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MR. KOPELMAN:
to the Debtor.
5 ', the bankruptcy case and the relationship between the Debtor and
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Mr. Kridel.
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that's how she's suing for damages, but the creditors have
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suffered, too.
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itself.
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the estate and if I win I'm going to keep all the money to the
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THE COURT:
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spoken on it?
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MR. KOPELMAN:
D R A F T
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but --
MR. KOPELMAN:
THE COURT:
Right.
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artificial.
THE COURT:
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It's
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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and --
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THE COURT:
Third Circuit.
Third Circuit.
I don't.
D R A F T
point.
MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
point.
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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subsequent to O'Dowd.
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It's a 2002 case and the panel was Judge Pogue of the
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Honor.
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right now.
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
Sure.
"A cause of action is consider property
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filing and the Debtor could have asserted the claim on his own
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D R A F T
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THE COURT:
That is
agree and everybody agrees, I do not think you will get any
argument that the Butner case by the Supreme Court says that
right?
MR. CUEVAS:
But there is
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15 ~,
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MR. CUEVAS:
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opinion.
THE COURT:
of paperwork.
May I approach?
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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Yes.
Thank you.
D R A F T
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her hiring Mr. Kridel, paying him a $2500 retainer and then
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That's what
Certainly,
So we think it is
I believe based on
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the timing that was laid out then the Trustee was not aware of
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apparently --
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I am sorry.
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
The motion --
Is
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petition, no, the Trustee was not aware of that -That was the motion to dismiss.
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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estate or not.
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THE COURT:
D R A F T
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that the Court is bound by any state court that has been
issued?
No, I wouldn't because the Trustee was
MR. KOPELMAN:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
THE COURT:
Yes.
Oh.
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MR. KOPELMAN:
to listen to my question.
My question is simply you would not disagree that I
I did not talk about the
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You need
MR. KOPELMAN:
Right.
D R A F T
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
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All right.
is?
MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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Yes.
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order.
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Yes.
D R A F T
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THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
All right.
So --
K.
Thank you.
you not agree with or would you argue that I am not bound by,
Mr. Kopelman?
MR. KOPELMAN:
THE COURT:
FEMALE VOICE:
THE COURT:
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That's Exhibit L?
Yes.
K, Your Honor.
Oh, I am sorry.
MR. KOPELMAN:
K.
L is the transcript.
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bound by it.
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I don't think
THE COURT:
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have issues.
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complaint?
There is
D R A F T
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MR. KOPELMAN:
THE COURT:
Tell me some
authority.
MR. KOPELMAN:
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surprise.
THE COURT:
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papers.
MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
The order
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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must say I'm just not familiar enough with this order to
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D R A F T
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I just don't think it's binding insofar as
or doesn't mean.
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THE COURT:
Well, thanks.
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I see some
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THE COURT:
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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All right.
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MR. KOPELMAN:
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THE COURT:
D R A F T
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MR. CUEVAS:
here, we're not only talking about legal malpractice but also
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THE COURT:
O'Dowd has
Is
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MR. CUEVAS:
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malpractice.
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THE COURT:
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There were several parts to the lawsuit that stemmed from the
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filing of the petition, then the acts that occurred after the
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MR. CUEVAS:
D R A F T
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malpractice.
THE COURT.
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petition.
THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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admittedly --
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THE COURT:
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D R A F T
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and I think what he says is, "In the most liberal light based
true."
MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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does the Trustee not -- just that portion, we will get to the
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trustee?
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
left in the complaint.
MR. CUEVAS:
Yes.
D R A F T
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THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
and the target letter was issued on or about March 24, 2011,
from the filing of the petition and what happened through the
case.
Well, let's take it from this.
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MR. CUEVAS:
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18 ( Honor.
One, the cause of action did not accrue until (1) she
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lost her discharge; (2) she was indicted; and, (3) she was
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actually sentenced.
So you do not have a cause of action
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
Yes.
-- until the damages occur -That's correct, Your Honor.
D R A F T
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-- which is what the cases say?
THE COURT:
at that moment?
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
No.
So then no pre-petition case could live
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of cases that says if you misfiled under the wrong chapter that
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has accrued.
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Your Honor.
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was not given any notice of the, I think the complaint lists
16 'out that she was not advised that she could file anything other
17 '~ than a 7.
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MR. CUEVAS:
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Honor, is not the basis for the malpractice action, Your Honor.
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Sure.
D R A F T
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MR. CUEVAS:
1
2 (bench?
THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
All right.
Your Honor, one of the things that we
This case
the period that this case was active there was significant lift
stay activity.
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secured debt.
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liquidated such that the only piece of property that they own
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and what we've done with the (11:48:25), Your Honor, is gone
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So,
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because she even thinks that she has a claim arising against
D R A F T
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The
the service.
THE COURT:
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There
is Home Depot.
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THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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As of May
15 123rd, Your Honor, the only two claims, Your Honor, are
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THE COURT:
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paid.
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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payment plan.
D R A F T
They are on a
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MR. CUEVAS:
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MR. CUEVAS:
What you
8 ~I ,can say is that there is a payment plan to pay them that has
9 'been agreed to.
MR. CUEVAS:
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for a year and before that she was embroiled in her criminal
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and saying there was $8 million of debt and that's why this
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inaccurate.
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tell you what claims he intends to satisfy and what claims are
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owed him.
So in
THE COURT:
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working on the case because the case was closed and he does not
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MR. CUEVAS:
D R A F T
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THE COURT:
prejudice, and since at the point that the case closed there
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
Yes.
That is what he knows.
MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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You may.
information?
MR. CUEVAS:
Yes.
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THE COURT:
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D R A F T
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1 IHonor?
THE COURT:
When did
this, in Ms. Giudice's argument, when did this occur; when did
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Your Honor.
THE COURT:
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proceeding?
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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that?
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MR. CUEVAS:
Hold on.
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D R A F T
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THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
Ray Lyons?
Yes.
Mr. Lyons for purposes -- retired judge.
Said basically that it was his opinion
that nothing wrong had happened to her and that's why she
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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when she --
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THE COURT:
I'm not an
But in terms of
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discovered.
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property of the estate from the Trustee and I have Ms. Giudice
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time or, if she in fact discovered them from that time that
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D R A F T
'rte
MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
All right.
But in terms, Your Honor, of the
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bases for that claim are post petition, especially the issue of
what Mr. Kridel did with the content of the target letter, the
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THE COURT:
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saY that when You look at whether it was personal to the debtor
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MR. CUEVAS:
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been satisfied.
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THE COURT:
D R A F T
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MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
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They
Am I
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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authorities.
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Laundry.
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Honor.
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THE COURT:
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that those same creditors that have payment plans could share
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MR. CUEVAS:
D R A F T
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but the fact that they're not here protesting I think speaks
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I do not
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that the only person that has contacted the Trustee regarding
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Honor --
THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
He lost.
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apple.
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for reconsideration.
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THE COURT:
So he
22 '~, read into his actions, I did notice that, and I assumed that he
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reached out for Mr. Sywilok because he lost, but still, how the
24 ' estate acts in its own right should it have the right to really
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D R A F T
Yes, he waited
~~
Once could say
perhaps he should have contacted him when the suit was filed,
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However,
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That is unequivocal.
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and --
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THE COURT:
argument.
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
No.
You may.
Because it's really compelling that the
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Trustee is not able to cite one case in which he can state that
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yes, under New Jersey law these causes of action are property
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of the estate.
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THE COURT:
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D R A F T
r~
MR. CUEVAS:
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accrual.
THE COURT:
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chapter.
THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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and did they say that it only applies in the situation when
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MR. CUEVAS:
18 'Your Honor.
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THE COURT:
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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Bernstein's opinion.
D R A F T
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THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
to Witko and Holstein, and here it's more analogous, this case
loss of a discharge.
that it wasn't until the discharge was actually denied that the
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different than the case law you just filed under the wrong
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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then that would the damage that would occur, but then that
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D R A F T
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
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Honor, the cause of action would accrue when you had to pay
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more legal fees because those would be your damages under New
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Jersey law.
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THE COURT:
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states, it's on Page 236, "Although the accrual date for state
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D R A F T
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MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
Segal v Rochelle.
See, I think the Segal case, Your Honor,
THE COURT:
8 ' petition and it was asserted that those loss carry-overs would
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the target letter which is the real basis for the breach of
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that letter from his or her client and doesn't tell that
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D R A F T
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THE COURT:
that you cited where it says on Page 237, "A cause of action
MR. CUEVAS:
here was one act that was pre-petition but the vast bulk, as
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Your Honor, and the most serious acts and the most detrimental
THE COURT:
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what was not done for Ms. Giudice prior to the filing of the
talk about the post petition, but you know, when I read the
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the accrual, but again, using cases that you have cited to as
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determined.
D R A F T
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MR. CUEVAS:
Okay.
2 ~Strada.
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THE COURT:
petition situation and I think that's the leading case for the
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actually noted the fact that you did not cite to it because
under Strada you have some issues.
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MR. CUEVAS:
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Witko and --
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
The Eleventh?
-- Holstein.
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20 'claim itself accrued.
THE COURT:
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cause.
It says for
D R A F T
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convinced otherwise.
MR. CUEVAS:
I do not know.
It becomes an argument I
not open this case is, one, this claim is very personal to Ms.
Giudice.
Under the
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O'Dowd criteria, you will never find a case that fits more
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fine, but when I look at your own chart and when I look at the
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judgment report there are creditors that exist on this day for
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Ms. Giudice.
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paid.
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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D R A F T
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that they have the opportunity to be paid now perhaps and they
MR. CUEVAS:
Okay.
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THE COURT:
though.
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the damage that that debtor claimed was that he had lost all of
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his property and Judge Lyons said, "That was not a damage
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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been satisfied and we are candid in saying to you the last bulk
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that remains out there is her home mortgage and the taxing
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That's it.
D R A F T
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THE COURT:
and note that there are A through F of taxes that are owed as
far as --
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MR. CUEVAS:
Your Honor.
THE COURT:
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
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still creditors.
MR. CUEVAS:
THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. CUEVAS:
All right.
They're
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THE COURT:
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today, right.
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information today.
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body, even if they are owed $5 they are still creditors and
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no creditors.
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MR. CUEVAS:
D R A F T
39
Decision
No, we cannot because I do not have to
THE COURT:
I have to find
look at; the timing, and there is not that much time that has
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creditors.
MR. CUEVAS:
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merits.
15 ,purposes of reopen.
I am saying for
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there.
I have to tell you, while I think you did a fabulous
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further.
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the case law leaves the door open because while there are
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D R A F T
I think
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Decision
that I noted from the exhibits, I think that there are a lot of
In fact, your
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have just stated and I have started to through and line up the
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plans, the fact remains that creditors still exist for this
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Debtor.
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to be examined further.
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D R A F T
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Decision
1
would suggest I should say, that the parties bring that issue
cause of action.
So this is not
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can look at it, and I think at that point Mr. Cuevas perhaps
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you will get some of the evidentiary hearings that you are
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looking for.
It
MR. CUEVAS:
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THE COURT:
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All right.
MR. KOPELMAN:
Thank you.
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it.
Thank you.
(Adjourned 12:22: p.m.)
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I N D E X
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The Court:
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Dated:
Decision
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June 9, 2016
D R A F T