Debate on Abortion

Moderator: Kim / Pro-Life: A / Pro-Abortion: Jackie

Kim: Hello guys. We are going to discuss abortion today. Are you guys ready?
A: Yes, Im all game.
Jackie: Yes.
Kim: Who would like to go first?
A: Jackie is the affirmative, that is, that she believes abortion is okay. So I guess
she goes first.
Jackie: Who says Im the affirmative? You affirm that abortion is wrong. So it
can go either way.
Kim: Are we going to debate abortion or who is to go first?
A: Ill go first. My arguments are easy. Murder is wrong. Abortion is murder.
Therefore abortion is wrong.
Kim: Thats it?
A: Thats the basic argument. Jackie, do you agree that murder is wrong?
Jackie: Yes, but I dont think abortion is murder.
A: Why not?
Jackie: Because its just a fetus. A fetus is not a human being. Actually, its just a
tissue.
A: Its not just a tissue. It has 46 human chromosomes, its a male or a female,
and its complete, meaning nothing else will be added to it, just growth and
development.
Jackie: It cant breathe, it cant talk, it cant walk, and it cant live without the
mother.

A: If Im a mute, does it mean Im not a human being?

Jackie: No.
A: What if I cant walk?
Jackie: Youre still a human being. My point was that it cant live on its own and
it cannot do the things we can do.
A: Its the same thing when the baby is born. He is still dependent on the mother.
He depends on her to give him food, to be cleaned, etc. We become less
dependent when we grow. There are also others such as the paralyzed that cannot
live on their own. That doesnt mean its okay to murder them. When a baby
depends on an incubator, that doesnt give us the right to murder him.
Jackie: But that thing is basically useless. You believe a zygote is a human being,
but a zygote doesnt even have a brain, organs, or a nervous system.
A: So? A zygote can grow into you. It can grow as an adult.
Jackie: Potentiality does not mean actuality.
A: But it can grow into it naturally. Only a human being can grow into an adult
human being. A fetal ape cant grow into an adult human being. Only a human
being can. You have to be a human being to have a brain, organ, and a nervous
system. So it IS a human being. If it were a human being, then killing it would be
murder.
Jackie: So thats it? You dont care about what the mother feels?
A: I do. Thats why I am pro-life. Havent you heard of testimonies of mothers
after abortion? It basically kills them.
Jackie: What are you talking about?
A: Exactly. You dont even know of mothers who have had abortion that needs
healing. They have emotional problems after abortion. You dont even know that
abortion has a lot of side effects.
Jackie: Seriously, what are you talking about?
A: Im talking about the side effects of abortion. You dont know these things

because the media and schools dont tell you.

Jackie: So youre complaining about the media and schools?
A: Yes. Im complaining with sufficient reasons. Schools are made so that
teachers actually TEACH you things. But what do they do? They forget about
morality. I know lots of teachers who would not even let the class debate on
abortion because she feels its overdone. But she would not think condemning
Hitler, rape, slavery, and incest is overdone. What a total hypocrisy. And the
media doesnt even want to show a picture of an aborted child, but would show
any immoral things they can find.
Kim: Thats an interesting view A, but we are supposed to debate abortion itself.
A: Were not done yet? I thought I already proved that abortion is murder.
Jackie: No you havent. You may have proven that a zygote or a fetus is a
human being, but there are also other factors, such as a womans privacy and
right.
A: You mean a womans right to murder?
Jackie: No, a womans right to give birth. No one should force her to give birth.
Its her body.
A: A woman forced herself into having birth. No one forced her to have sex. And
what were doing is condemning her because abortion is murder. We are forcing
her not to murder.
Jackie: Its her body. She can do whatever she wants. The government shouldnt
tell her what to do.
A: Its my body, but the government tells me not to smoke pot right? Its my
body but people tell me to stop drinking and driving.
Jackie: First of all, drugs are another controversial issue. Second, if you drink
and drive, you affect other people. You might kill someone else.
A: But thats what abortion is. It murders a person. It also affects other people,
such as a pro-life father. Its the fathers baby too. He should have a say.

Jackie: Its the womans body, not the fathers.

A: A zygote or a fetus is not the womans body. Its an entirely different person.
Jackie: Its a different person according to you.
A: No, its a different person biologically, and objectively. If its not a person,
when does it become a person?
Jackie: When its born. When it doesnt depend on the womans body.
A: Okay, so when a doctor is doing a c-section, and cuts open the stomach, that
thing is not a person? Its not a person until the doctor actually picks up the child
above the stomach and cuts the umbilical cord?
Jackie: But that child is already fully-grown.
A: So? Abortion is legal even though it is 9 months old.
Jackie: Some may say that abortion is wrong when the baby is 7-9 months old. It
may depend on age.
A: Can I murder a premature baby?
Jackie: No, because its already born.
A: So youre basing your judgment on the location of the baby? Do you know
how stupid that sounds?
Jackie: Well, who gave you the right to impose your values on someone else?
Whats right for you is not right for someone else.
A: Can I murder your grandmother? To me, thats not wrong.
Jackie: Okay, now who is sounding stupid?
A: You are. You are the one who says morality is subjective. If morality is
subjective, then you cant condemn any actions, including the holocaust. And we
can debate on moral relativism, but I can guarantee you that you wont win that
debate either.

Kim: No debating moral relativism today.

Jackie: A, its easy for you to condemn abortion. You are not even a woman. You
dont know how it feels to be pregnant.
A: Do I need to be a slave or a slave owner in order to condemn slavery? Of
course not. The North condemned slavery when they didnt have slavery. The
law back then also said that slavery was okay. That black people were just
property, but the North still condemned it because they had a higher standard to
condemn the Dred Scott decision, which is the moral law. And I hold to the
moral law, that is, that murder is wrong; against the Roe vs Wade decision.
Jackie: What if abortion is the only choice of the mother?
A: What do you mean the only choice? If she doesnt want the child, she can
give it up for adoption.
Jackie: Have you been in reality lately? Do you know how many foster homes
we have? Do you know how much unwanted children we have? How many
adoptions have you had?
A: That still does not give us the right to murder babies. Its just illogical to
conclude that.
Jackie: What about in cases like rape or incest?
A: Is it still murder? Yes. Therefore its still wrong.
Jackie: How would you feel if someone in your family is forced to have a child?
A: I might feel bad, but I dont make my judgments from my feelings. I would
suggest adoption if she doesnt want the child. Its better than murdering the
baby.
Jackie: Its only you that says its a baby for goodness sake.
A: If its not a baby, then what is it?
Jackie: Just a part of a mothers body.
A: A person does not have 4 eyes, 4 ears, 2 noses, and 2 mouths. So if a baby is a

boy, then the mother has a penis too? (Peter Kreeft)

Jackie: Very funny.
A: Actually, its stupid. Your logic is terrible.
Kim: I think we exhausted this enough for today.
A: I disagree.
Kim: Well, we can debate this anytime. Its just that I have to go. Let me ask a
question. Jackie, why is being Pro-Abortion, or Pro-Choice important to you?
Jackie: Because if the government makes abortion illegal, the government takes
away the freedom of a woman. Every woman should stick for each other. Every
woman should have the right to do what is right for her. Society has
discriminated women enough. We should not discriminate them again.
Kim: Okay. A, why is being Pro-Life important?
A: First, let me address some of what Jackie has said. First, if society has
discriminated against women, dont you think it wouldve taken them more than
5000 years to protest against this discrimination? The point is that women
were more humble then. Women have lost that virtue. Its sick how abortion,
feminism to be more exact, looks down upon mothers and virgins. If they didnt
look down upon them, we wouldnt have this holocaust. They like to praise
women who do a mans work and look down on women who stay home and take
care of the child.
The fact is that being a mother is the most beautiful thing you can be. Every
woman should be AGAINST abortion. A mother always sees the beauty of a
human being more than the man. Its because a woman is made to be a mother,
either literally or spiritually. She has the arms to hold a baby. It sickens me how
this feminism crap brainwashed women. The truth is that there is nothing
feminine about feminism. Feminism is masculinized womanhood. Abortion is
against womanhood. What we need is good philosophy on women, and that is, to
get back to the virtues that women once had. They should embrace meekness,
love life, and protect life. This is why I am pro-life, because I embrace what I
have learned from true women, which are mothers.

A.L.
See also Questions and Answers on Abortion by American Life League, edited
by P

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