OPIOIDS AND AMPHETAMINES INFORMATION FROM BLUELIGHT

Thread: Uppers and downers (opiates + amphetamines): good and bad

I've heard so many opinions and quasi-facts on this subject that I just
wanted to get some legitimate information. The search engine didn't help -- more
of the above.
If some people could post here that could include their source, or descr
ibe the reasoning behind their claim, I would appreciate it.
The question: How do opioids and amphetamines interact? Specifically, ad
derall, which is two salts of d-amphetamine and two salts of racemic amphetamine
.
I've heard everything from the threat of heart failure because of confli
cting "messages" from one's brain to the complete lack of a threat, "amphetamine
s and opioids are just as dangerous as amphetamines on their own."
I understand that they work on two different nervous systems (parasympat
hetic and sympathetic), and so they do not "cancel each other out." That fact se
ems to lend credence to a lack of interaction. However, there is this huge stigm
a attached to doing speedballs and everything that I imagined there could be a g
rain of truth underneath all the bullshit.
Specifically, I'm not asking about speedballs. I'm asking about using bo
th opioids and amphetamines in a single day. For example, I used an opioid this
morning around 7:30. I then enjoyed some adderall (10-15mg) at around 10:30AM. I
've done this in the past, and it doesn't seem to introduce any undue wear and t
ear.
How about spaced closer together? Like, the amphetamines 1-1.5 hours aft
er the opioid? Or alternating, e.g. opioid, 1-1.5 hours, amphetamines, 2-3 hours
, opioids, 1-1.5 hours, amphetamines, etc. It doesn't seem like the best idea to
me, but I want to understand why.
Any information is appreciated.

this past Saturday I enjoyed washing down 20mg of adderall along with 35
mg of Hydrocodone with a few vodka tonics. One of the best buzzes I've ever had
. I wouldn't do it again though, mainly because of the thought of my poor liver
processing all of that shit. There have been a few times where I've taken 20mg o
f ritalin at work, and have had 20-35 mg of hydro a few hours later when I've ca
me home. Amphetamines alone give me a nasty headache after the onset, so that's
the main reason why I usually chase them with some sort of opioid. After reading
what you've taken, I think you'll be okay. I'm sorry I can't give you any more
information, scientifically, to help you explain why though =\
I'm sure there will be quite a few posters that will however, but like I
said, I've done it quite a bit, and have felt fine (no irreg heart beats, hyper
tension headaches, irreg breathing, etc...). Good luck =)

In the days i wasn`t too bad addicted ([ot]they seem to come back 3 week

s clean now) i used a good dose of methadone and amphetamine to go out to a big
carnival party...Usually the methadon was too sedating and the amphetamine makes
me too speedy. But both euphorias just added to each other, i was calm, extreme
ly focused, talkative and on top of the world. I felt way superior to all the dr
unkheads i met. The comedown was non existent because the duration of methadone
well overrides that of speed. I would love to try meth + methadone, too bad its
so rare in germany...

Good stimulants and opiates are the best drug combos ever, like meth and
heroin, heaven, as long as you have enough dope to last through the meth.
I know many people say mixing uppers and downers is lethal even, but act
ually most times they cancel out eachothers dangerous/annoying effects.
The only danger is if you don't know your tolerance to both drugs and en
d up taking too much of the opiate because the speed makes you feel "fine" and a
wake. It can go the other way too, so know your stuff, your tolerance and enjoy
the most failsafe euphoric combo ever.
back in the day one of my favorite combos was 20mg adderal and 40mg hydr
o, and a good 2mg colonzapam. great high, takes away the anxiety from the speed,
and the sedation from the opiates+benzos, The high meets somewere right in the
middle.

Wow, I didn't realize this was such a popular combo to take at the same
time. Thanks for all the replies. I will try to space things out so things don't
get too crazy, but I should be set.
I wouldn't be taking the opioids if it weren't for necessity. :P

The reason you're getting headaches from the adderall is you're dehydrat
ed. Drink only water and don't drink carbonated bevs like coke or seven up and y
our headache will dissipate. also, i find aleve to almost stmulate my amphetamin
e high sometimes. strange, but it does. it's weird. naproxen sodium that is.

oh and it cancels out any headaches too.

Stimulants potentiate benzos, some Codeine 300 + 60mg Ritalin adds to it

Originally posted by davids

Stimulants potentiate benzos, some Codeine 300 + 60mg Ritalin adds to it
Hmm.

First of all, your example doesn't apply to your statement; Codeine is n

ot a benzo, it's an opioid.
Second of all, there is no potentiation occurring for opioids and amphet
amine-derived stimulants when taken together. They affect completely different n
ervous systems within the brain and body (parasympathetic vs. sympathetic), and
therefore have very little effect on one another.
While it may subjectively feel as though one is cancelling the other out
, it is not actually happening that way physiologically. Physiologically, you ar
e feeling the effects of both at the same time.
What my original question was asking was more about potential interactio
ns, if they existed, their danger zones with respect to substances, dosages, and
frequencies, symptoms, risks, etc. for opioids and amphetamine-derived stimulan
ts.
The sheer number of people who appear to have enjoyed the combination wi
th no ill effects is reassuring to me, but I'd still like to read a detailed phy
siological description of what is happening in the CNS and why it is or is not d
angerous in which circumstances. I know how opioids work in the brain, agonizing
the opioid receptors (mu, delta, kappa) and also acting in unknown ways on sera
tonin, dopamine, and noradrenaline/norepinephrine. I know much less about how am
phetamines work in the brain, and the detailed results of mixing the two.
Failing that, simply quoting a source as to its opinion regarding a pote
ntial dangerous interaction would also be helpful.
For example, Heroin Helper says that the only risk associated with speed
balls is the same risk associated with doing the same dose of stimulant on its o
wn. Others differ. *shrug*
Obviously for a middle aged person with some heart disease risks, it's n
ot a great idea to eat many stimulants regardless of how they are accompanied. B
ut I'm not middle-aged yet.
Anyway, thanks for all the responses.

Hmm.
First of all, your example doesn't apply to your statement; Codeine is n
ot a benzo, it's an opioid.
Second of all, there is no potentiation occurring for opioids and amphet
amine-derived stimulants when taken together. They affect completely different n
ervous systems within the brain and body (parasympathetic vs. sympathetic), and
therefore have very little effect on one another.

My scheer apolagies, i was drunk,

Codeine is of course a Opiate, and it has been shown that stimulants CAN
and do INDEED potentiate some OIpie's-hense the 'Bromptons Coctail, Cocaine+amp
hetamine+Brandy given to dying patients in the UK) to see them out.

"stimulants potentiate the anagelsic and antidepressant aspects of Opiat

es/iods."

"Bromptons Coctail"=Heroin+Cocaine+Brandy.

Originally posted by diacetyldeath

I've heard everything from the threat of heart failure because of confli
cting "messages" from one's brain to the complete lack of a threat, "amphetamine
s and opioids are just as dangerous as amphetamines on their own."
Folklore. I don't have the site, but one of the "major" harm reduction/s
afe shooting sites had a paper on amphetamine/opiate combination. There is no me
dical evidence for the "conflicting signals" bullshit- that's what it is- bullsh
it. The only real danger from amp/opiate mixing is that generally, one tends to
shoot more dope while also using amps. In the case of a speedball (coke specific
ally), the coke wears off much quicker than the h. While the coke is active, you
r respiratory depression is not as pronounced. Once the coke wears off, you can
end up in an o/d situation very quickly. It's happened to me. I was shooting a l
ot of speedballs- I hate coke but love the rush, so I'd end up shooting a lot mo
re dope than usual to counter-act the longer coke effects. Once I ran out of cok
e, I'd end up way nodded from the h I shot.
cheers
doc

The Speedracer must be intimately aware of each substances effects, inde

pendent of the other; before engaging in the ritualistic-sport called sPeedBall.
There are many forms of speedball. In a group setting, the best form of
speedball may be an all nite ralley of cocaine and black on tin foil rigs.
If you going out for a night on the town maybe a few meth bumbs and some
pain pills.
My personal favorite is popping two 20 mg adderalls, waiting about five
hours, then swallowing vicodin with crushed up OC bumps. Oh god i almost get a b
oner thinking about it.

yeah like groveller said, you got to be careful when shooting coke and o
piates. that is kinda ironic I also hate coke but i fancy the rush!

I took 1.5 mgs of Klonopins, 4mgs of Seboxin, and a half of a speedy nak
ed lady roll.....everythings fine so far. I took them about 45 minutes apart. Im
not gonna drink though....that where things turn sour..lol DEF. A LITTLE GREEN
THOUGH!!

Quote Originally Posted by Weagle

I took 1.5 mgs of Klonopins, 4mgs of Seboxin, and a half of a speedy nak

ed lady roll.....everythings fine so far. I took them about 45 minutes apart. Im

not gonna drink though....that where things turn sour..lol DEF. A LITTLE GREEN
THOUGH!!
Kpins and suboxone love eachother.
I lovvvvvvvvvvvve an adderall - suboxone combo.
.5-1mg suboxone(intranasal), wait an hour, 30mg adderall(intranasal)+ 60
-70mgs orally. Ohhhhh lawdy

MANY doctors prescribe people on high doses of opiates or other sedative

s an amphetamine to go with it. this is actualy vary commen practice, with both
opiates, and benzos. i know a shit ton of people on dexidrine/xanax, or methadon
e/kpin etc.
its considred vary safe. mainly the harmfulnuss of a speeball comes from
a true speedball (shooting coke and heroin together) that causes Quite the stra
in on the heart.
i used to speedball nearl dailey (not true speedballing i just mean ups
and downs like you mentioned)

benzodiazepines don't have synergistic effects with amphetamines. they'r

e often perceived as very uncomfortable when taken together. opiates and ampheta
mines do. it's not something you want to do regularly. it's not something you sh
ould ever do, but if you're going to do it, start way below your regular dose of
either and don't think that the effects will proportionately mimic an increase
in dose. it's a lot like alcohol mixed with opiates in that you don't know what
you're going to get with an increased dose. you may hit a threshold and spike da
ngerously.

Quote Originally Posted by Subreflex View Post

Kpins and suboxone love eachother.
I lovvvvvvvvvvvve an adderall - suboxone combo.
.5-1mg suboxone(intranasal), wait an hour, 30mg adderall(intranasal)+ 60
-70mgs orally. Ohhhhh lawdy
I'm trying a vyvanse (basically dexedrine) suboxone combo right now. I'v
e been up the entire night on vyvanse taking little doses of it every now and th
en, like 20mg every three hours, after I knew I wasn't going to go to sleep. It'
s 12:35 PM, approximately 16 hours since I started the vyvanse with a total of a
bout 160mg total (I just took my last 20mg) and I did 2mg of suboxone. I did the
insufflated route. Note that I'm sorta used to suboxone. I was doing 8mg a day
a few weeks ago, stopped, and then did some recently a few days in a row. When I
did the buprenorphine my face got pretty warm, as did my hands. I'm not sure, b
ut I think it is counteracting the vasoconstriction that amphetamines cause sinc
e my hands are warming up, but I may be wrong. Amphetamines always make my hands
cold because of the fucking vasoconstriction. It seems to be smoothing out the
edge from what I can tell now though. I still feel pretty amped out, but I don't
feel the anxiety striking me like it did. I would have moments that were remini
scent to a bad trip every hour, especially in social situations. Be careful with

those amphetamines people.

If u r really interested in the exact interaction maybe pick up a medica
l book on the exact physiological effects of amphetamine and opioids. They proba
bly wouldn't be written about at the same time but u can make the connections. T
hen u can come back and teach us all about it. I sure don't have enough knowledg
e to tell what happens on a physiological level when amphetamine is taken with o
piates.
Djsim, moderator in other drugs, is a pharmacist who is currently studyi
ng to be a doctor in Australia. He has lots and lots of knowledge crammed into h
is brain. maybe u can PM him to contribute to the thread. Just a suggestion. He
would be my best option on the most accurate and unbiased information.
Hope that helps.

I got hooked on smack after restarting an Amphetamine habit. Being crank

ed makes the transition to being opiated much more drastic (and pleasurable). So
rt of like the best shots of dope are when you're shitting your pants sick. The
change is so massive it makes the good better. My ex used to shoot meth + dope a
ll the time.
Interesting note: one story goes that the origin of Amphetamines + Heroi
n/Morphine injected together originated with army personnel on leave in Yokohama
, Japan during the Korean War. Burroughs wrote a good deal about the ex-army guy
s at Lexington Narcotics Hospital talking about shooting speedballs in Yokohama.
I'm willing to believe it.
There have been a lot of threads about the specific dangers of speedball
s, but you're right that a lot of that information is irrelevant because of Coca
ine's specific characteristics which seem to be the main danger, followed by the
chance that an opioid naive person would take too much dope not realizing how i
t is effecting them fully due to the stimulation, resulting in respiratory depre
ssion when the stimulant wears off.
Theres a long history of combining opioids and powerful stimulants medic
ally. Brompton's Cocktail and Pipradol come to mind. A whole lot of MMT and BMT
patients on BL routinely talk about their prescriptions to Adderall/Dexedrine/Ri
talin/Concerta/etc.
You may have better luck in ADD. While they may post sources and quote v
arious journal articles, my guess is that the conclusion will be the same- there
are risks, but they are not as grave as combining Cocaine with opioids, and don
e semi-responsibly there is little cause for concern, especially with spaced adm
inistration and low(er) doses.
Cocaine is a weird drug in that it's a triple reuptake inhibitor and tar
gets the mesolimbic reward pathway. Interestingly, MDMA is a serotonin-norepinep
hrine-dopamine releaser, which is intrinsically a triple reuptake inhibitor as w
ell. Almost all of the opiates and opioids target the reward pathway as well via
opiate-peptide receptors which indirectly affect a number of other neurotransmi
tters such as serotonin and dopamine. Amphetamines have serotonin and norepineph
rine releasing properties, so there really isn't too much of a direct interactio
n with opiates and ampetamines in the CNS, but some of the physiological effects
can be exacerbated by the combination. Euphoria is most definitely potentiated
but some of the qualities that give magic to the amps and opes singularly is los

t IMO and is counterproductive for my tastes.

How does ephedrine mix with morphine? Or any other opiate? Been wanting
to mix ephedrine and morphine. I would use a real amphetamine if i had some. Eph
edrine is all i have. "so sad"
i like taking my opiates alone, for some reason when i mixed em with add
erall everything felt canceled out, I wasn't able to fully appreciate the opiate
, or even the adderall in its entirity.
I went through a period where I hated stimulants, and I was all about do
wners. However, when I got on MMT i was introduced to I.V coke, and that really
changed my oppinion. methadone and coke are great, and methadone and amphetamine
s are even better. I find it really works well together, because your not too se
dated and your not too speedy. I'm the type of person that likes to get shit don
e while I'm high, so being over sedated is depressing to me.

Quote Originally Posted by Znegative View Post

I went through a period where I hated stimulants, and I was all about do
wners. However, when I got on MMT i was introduced to I.V coke, and that really
changed my oppinion. methadone and coke are great, and methadone and amphetamine
s are even better. I find it really works well together, because your not too se
dated and your not too speedy. I'm the type of person that likes to get shit don
e while I'm high, so being over sedated is depressing to me.
... Me and a good friend ..well lets call him Swim.! I used to shoot dop
e with my good friend Swim and one day Swim had Hydromorphone"Dilaudid" & some S
trong Coke to for us to boot. I had never shot coke before let alone mixed with
and opiate and WOW..!! Best High Ever.! ..so i feel ya on that ..would do it aga
in if i had access. ..Thanks for the reply ..Rx

Quote Originally Posted by downerman10 View Post

i like taking my opiates alone, for some reason when i mixed em with add
erall everything felt canceled out, I wasn't able to fully appreciate the opiate
, or even the adderall in its entirity.
..I was worried about them canceling each other out. About a year ago i
ate adderall all day ..then later that night i ate about 200mg morphine and did
not feel the morphine at all. I did feel the body fx bout no high.! I thought i
prob used up all my dopamine from the adderall. Thanks for the reply ...Rx

I am prescribed 10mg of adderall 4 times per day. Last fall I contracted

oral HSV. i was one of the unfortunate 10% of the population that didn't get ex
posed to it as a child and it was horrid. My dr said it was the worst case he ha
d ever seen. He prescribed me 7.5mgs of Hydrocodone "as needed but not to exceed
6 per day. When he handed me the script i looked at him very confused and state
d "but i can't take this and adderall together can i?" He explained to me there
is no danger taking the two together at prescribed doses because both have a sim
ilar duration. I like many others were afraid of mixing uppers and downers but h

e further explained the reason why "speedballs" are dangerous:

The reason people die from
caine and the much longer duration
into a hyper-stimulated state then
strong. The result is your body is
depressed state and in worse case
ory failure and death.

speedballs is due to the short duration of co

of heroin. Simply put. Coke shoots your body
it wears off while the heroin is still going
violently pulled from a stimulated state to a
scenarios goes into shock leading to respirat

As with many drugs and drug combinations the danger is directly related
to the dosage. If you can safely handle X amount of adderall and X amount of opi
ate separately then you should be safe taking them together ORALLY. IF and ONLY
IF the dosages are within FDA APPROVED RANGES. Otherwise i say stay away!!!
Again key points: SAFE DOSAGE and SIMILAR DURATION!!! This goes for othe
r stimulants and depressants as well. Know you your body, be smart, and always p
lay it safe. Pushing the envelope leads to pushing up daisies.

Quote Originally Posted by Rx_ View Post

How does ephedrine mix with morphine? Or any other opiate? Been wanting
to mix ephedrine and morphine. I would use a real amphetamine if i had some. Eph
edrine is all i have. "so sad"
Not a bad mix IMO. Ephedrine doesn't really create any stimulant-esque e
uphoria, but it does pack some pep, and can definitely give a mood lift/motivati
on boost on its own. With Morphine, which is one of the drowsiest Opiates, havin
g something like Ephedra or even Pseudoephedrine can help counteract that drowsi
ness and keep you more alert. Unless you want to nod out of course, then you pro
bably want to just skip the Ephedra.
Morphine + Amphetamine? One of my favorite combinations ever
i used to date a girl that woke up every morning and blasted lines of ad
derall and oxy mixed together, and i've taken opiates while on rit or adderall m
any times in the past. it never seemed to harm her or me any more than taking dr
ugs normally would. this is not medical advice or anything, but from what i've w
itnessed/eperienced, there were no severly adverse consequences.
like someone else said, i think the danger of speedballs is when the sti
mulant wears off, you may have taken too much of the opiate and that's when peop
le die or whatever. again, i'm no doctor though, so i'm just sharing my experien
ce and personal understanding of this subject. please don't read this as me tell
ing anyone it's definitely safe bc i don't know.

Well I gotta add my .02 cents on this thread. I don't have a scientific
or physiological answer for anyone but I do know that before I got off the needl
e (started with oxy moved to heroin) I one night had an opportunity to "speedbal
l" with some ice......
Ima tell you I was in love with my heroin alone and didn't think anythin
g would be better but you throw that ice in the mix and I seriously had an orgas
m with that first shot....
It was like adding that third person into a two way of great drugged up

wanting more can't get enough sex.....sheeesh it was amazing.

Luckily I am pretty far down the road of being away from that stuff or j
ust this thought and a few phone calls and I would have been gunning for it.
Sorry, just had to comment about that....
kricket~

People freak out on these boards about the use of stimulants and opiates
or what have you. But the statistics really aren't there. You're talking about
a little bit of adderall and a little bit of some opiate. It would be unrealisti
c for you to worry about heart failure (haha), or some other retarded bullshit.
Like the odds of you're child getting abducted because you let them play in your
backyard unsupervised don't make sense when you see the amount of fear some peo
ple have for shit like that.
Ask this question when you're injecting a gram of meth with a gram of he
roin, and I think a lot of the fear that people discuss in these posts may be a
little more likely. I personally have to have either an opiate or a benzo, like
many people do, whenever I do amphetamines of any kind. Otherwise I enter near-s
uicidal depression every time.

can someone please tell me how to shoot 20mg adderall and break it down
for me in simple terms, no chemistry bullshit plz.

Quote Originally Posted by Iloveballz View Post

can someone please tell me how to shoot 20mg adderall and break it down
for me in simple terms, no chemistry bullshit plz.
Despite this being a terrible idea, I'm sure there are more than a few p
eople who can help you, but this thread is not the appropriate place to ask.
Try searching around, and if you still can't find the info you're lookin
g for, you can always start your own thread, though I'll warn you that it would
be a more or less self-serving thread and will likely get closed. Honestly, just
take it orally or sniff it.

One of my favorite combo's used to be 30mg+ Adderall IR, and at the peak
I would start railing mass amounts of Oxymorphone. Ohhhh, sweet euphoria. Too b
ad my heart can't take that non-sense anymore..

ive been doin meth and oxy for the past week.. i wait a couple hours to
take the oxy because if i take it to early, the meth overpowers it. I love the c
ombination especially with some xanax and a few brews. i would say defiantly dos
e both if ur using adderall it shouldn't over power the opiates too much.

Im about to attempt 1mg suboxone and 130mg of 4-FA, both nasally.

Lets hope all goes well

One time i took 15mg hydrocodone with 30mg adderal. I felt veerrrry good
. I would recommend, although i dont know too much about the health risks. I had
a stomach ache on the comedown btw, not sure if its related.

I strongly dislike the amphetamine/opiate combination, I used to take ma

ybe 30 mg of Dexedrine and 30 mg of oxycodone or 60 mg of morphine, the opiate t
akes away a lot of the "edge" (anxiety) from the speed but other than that, they
took away the nod (opiate) and the ability to go for hours and hours without ti
ring (speed), which is why I did that combo only twice or 3 times. I like to use
opiates to come down off Dexedrine, a few hours after the high from the speed w
ears off I'll pop a morphine and sleep. Sometimes if I can't sleep even with the
morphine I'll take a melatonin, and that works even better.
Last edited by datSTIMfreak; 10-11-2010 at 15:33.

In my own experiences, the only opiate + upper combination I enjoyed was

a genuine speedball. I have recently tried combinations of hydrocodone + Addera
ll, and morphine + Vyvanse. While the initial buzz is fun, it tended to make me
extremely nauseous, and I would get headaches, especially from the morph + lisde
x. Speed can give headaches as it is from the vasodilation, and natural opiates
like codeine and morphine always tend to give me headaches when taken in excess.
IME, the side effects from both drugs tended to get a little overwhelming and I
would feel "yucky" within a few hours.
If you are not interested in trying a true heroin + cocaine speedball, t
ry something like oxycodone + Dexedrine. Semi-synthetic and synthetic opiates ha
ve a better side-effect profile.
However, using opiates when crashing from speed is always great. It kill
s the anxiety, kills the pain from muscle tension, etc. So my verdict is this: u
sing them together can cancel the effects of each drug out, and the side-effects
can be undesirable. If you want to experiment then go ahead; but my recommendat
ion is to use the drugs subsequently, not simultaneously.

I don't care who believes me or not but I've been up for seven days stra
ight on rx amphetamine salts. I was feeling like absolute hell most of last nigh
t because the 30mg adds weren't really giving me effects but they kept me awake.
I would feel horrible and then take one and just feel normal ish
Well i really didn't plan on staying awake for a week but one thing led
to another and it happened, but I'll save the horrid details for another thread.
So anyways i had maybe five subutex through outthe week and every time it truly
felt amazing. My eyes would flutter, and euphoria rushed through my body. It wa
s mostly doing iv shots of 15mg amphetamine mixed with 2mg buprenorphine while a
lready tweaking. You would expect a huge rush but both amps and hope have a dela
yed rush when ivd. But delayed or not it really worked well. I think it might ha
ve had such a pronounced synergy because i do believe but has some effect on the
dopamine system,b more so than most opiates at least. Journalism's pleasure ste
ms largely from dopamine, a well known fact

It is actually neurotoxic because it is a weak base and after the brain

uses it, dop oxidizes.
Back on topic, when the sun game up this morning i was actually thinking
death would be between, i never felt worse in my life
Withdrawing from bup and feeling tired ashell, yet couldn't sleep becaus
e of the adds that stopped gettingme high. Why did i continue taking them? Well
i was dreading the comedown I'm headed for, that's how it got this far. If you d
on't know what it's like being up for a week on amphetamine, i would say that da
y 5 and would consist of a state of psychosis mixed with an overall feeling of d
epression and poor health. Its kind of like my brain was focused on my droid cel
l phone while my bodyfed amphetamine to my mouth like a conditioned monkey when
i would start to crash . Well this morning was the worst i ever felt in my life
and I've went through some pretty horrible withdrawals. This is because i attemp
ted to stop taking it so i could maybe get some sleep. Well i started coming dow
n so hard that i couldn't deal and popped 60 more mg of speed in a defeated stat
e. It gave me a small high but the bup withdrawal started to be a little much so
i rummaged through my room hoping to find some cottons to rinse from my shots e
arlier in t week. Then there it was, a chunk of bup about 2mg in size. It i was
too jittery to shoot it. Do i threw it under my tongue, laid back down on my bed
and started reading the wiki article on my android while i waited for the sub t
o take away the. Sickness. Well about an hour later i became so overwhelmed with
euphoria that i couldn't fuckin believe it
Maybe it was an extra special high because i was so depressed over the w
hole situation of tweaking for a week. Lingered m mixed with being dope sick, th
at a rushing high like thatwas welcomed with b open arms. But as i was writing t
his it started wearing off
Now the intense high is l long gone and I'm crashing hard
I don't know what I'm going to do
I am struggling to not pass out of drop dead because my girlfriend is br
inging me ten subs at 3 and it's 9 am. I know if i fall asleep there is no way i
will be able to e wake up for the subutex. I'm in bad shape guys
The cell phone touch screen that i am using appears warped in amanor tha
t is making the writing very awkward.. i am having delusions. I actually thought
my dad was in here talking to me. I have severe depression, anxiety, and stayin
g awake is starting to get extremely painful
. AlsoI'm nauseated when iv look at this v cell phone and realize I've b
een open it for a breaking week with no sleep. It is becoming almost impossible
to typeon this tough screen. This is way too long, i only intended on tellingabo
ut. My glowing experience now I'm pretty much crying v for help. What should i d
o to stop feeling like i need to stay awake for the bulge that's coming later al
so i don't want to fall asleep, malnurished and dehydrated
Ok writing this is almost impossible now. Please give advice. I I'm goin
g to take another
30the to keep me up until at least some one replied. I'm sorry this was
so long but I'm spunthe help out. Definitely in. Amphetamine psychosis. Please r
eply or even email me with help our advice
. Thankx evilme@angelic.com
.

Do you have any benzos like xanax or valium even?

you're heading for a deep dark place and it appears your anxiety is maki
ng things worse. I can't tell you how safe it would be to take benzos on top of
the opoids you're already on but I know if taken within reasonable doses it will
help you calm down.
Don't take more amphetamines. That's for sure, hopefully someone more cl
ued up than me can make a better or safer assessment/remedy. But you need to dri
nk plenty of water, stop the amphetamines and prevent further panic which is mak

ing your situation worse...

But please, no more amphetamine.
Amphetamine + panic = horrendous frame of mind which will make you od.
Call your girlfriend and see if she can bring you some xanax or similar,
and sooner rather than later.
Good luck buddy, I'll email you this same reply but i sincerely hopea bi
gger expert han me will come along with more helpful ideas.
adderall is gonna cancel out some of the opiate euphoria due to your ove
rstimulation of the PNS. dexedrine is great with heroin/opiates because its only
a CNS stimulant rather than a PNS stimulant, therefore, you get MUCH less annoy
ing "tweaked out" feeling and just pure, intense euphoria. Meth is also GREAT wi
th heroin, but unsafe, and i strongly recommend against it.
Also with this "opiate one hour after the amphetamine, or the other way
around" stuff, I'll narrow it down for you: you have two options, simultaneously
or taking the opiate on the amphetamine comedown. No other way will be satisfac
tory.

Personally I've always taken the stim say IV and along side it a low dos
e of h, then near the end its like I am hammering my plungers direct into my opo
id receiptor.

Okay well let me start with im in my upper 20s and opiates literally des
troyed my life for years. Suboxone is a miracle drug and even though i surely cr
ave a bumped oc80 with 2 xany bars, im 4 years clean.
I also am bipolar and antidepressants and mood stabilzers make it all wo
rse, much worse. Now adderall is great... at first. then it drops me like crack
and makes me very paranoid.
Recently I've been on 50mg vyvanse in the am when I take my 12mg of sub
after and it is truly something. Energy, focus, elevated mood so good. I am also
on 3mg xanax per day which I usually save for the evening but when I throw them a
ll in the morning, I am truly a happy, sharp person.
Medical Marijuana is not legal in my state, but I have tried many differ
ent strains. In the near future I know a couple puffs from a vape pen and daily
excerise and emoyment all seems too good to be true

i noticed when i would take addys and binge all night on them, and stay
awake all the way till morning, i would go to the methadone clinic me and my gir
l and get our dose, and EVERYTIME , it seems the methadone brings back the adder
all euphoria...even when i was on suboxone i got the same effect...its a waste t
aking benzos to kill a speed crash, ur hypertensive, so ur gonna need 3x ur regu
lar benzo amount, more likely u wont sleep, just be tweaked withoput feeling wac
ked out, same with opiates, u willl feel good but when the benzos and opiates we
ar off ur ack to feeling like shit. just drink water eat food take vitamins, hav
e sex or masturbate

Quote Originally Posted by PhorIndicator View Post

The reason you're getting headaches from the adderall is you're dehydrat
ed. Drink only water and don't drink carbonated bevs like coke or seven up and y
our headache will dissipate. also, i find aleve to almost stmulate my amphetamin
e high sometimes. strange, but it does. it's weird. naproxen sodium that is.
This is actually not quite true and I know this from personal experience
, I had taken adderall and antytime you take an amphetamine your blood pressure
goes up, in which a side effect of high blood pressure is a headache, in my case
was an excruciating headache, one like I had never felt before, a different kin
d of headache where i could feel my heart beat in my head, my bf has high blood
pressure so he has a machine in which he can test blood pressure, my blood press
ure was stroke level high, I immediately took a couple of his blood pressure med
s and some aspirin. Mind you, I always have normal blood pressure, I just had a
gut feeling my blood pressure had spiked cuz this was a weird headache like I ha
d never felt and knew stimulants spike blood pressure. I had never taken adderal
l alone before and had always taken with pain pills, which do opposite, lower bl
ood pressure. But it is true adderall does enhance opiate buzz but please taken
with caution, starting with small amounts, BC I'm telling u that was a very scar
y experience for me, and I almost had to break down and go to er and told them w
hat I had taken if my blood pressure didn't drop very soon, and we were ten mins
from taking me but the blood pressure pills finally brought it down to safe lev
els

Are you from Indiana by chance ?

http://www.practicalpainmanagement.c...ulants-opioids
[QUOTE=Ell;7247964]benzodiazepines don't have synergistic effects with a
mphetamines. they're often perceived as very uncomfortable when taken together.
opiates and amphetamines do. it's not something you want to do regularly. it's n
ot something you should
What is a good effect if you have methadon 5 mg ,how much can u take wit
h ms contin 10 mg ??/

Quote Originally Posted by Znegative View Post

I went through a period where I hated stimulants, and I was all about do
wners. However, when I got on MMT i was introduced to I.V coke, and that really
changed my oppinion. methadone and coke are great, and methadone and amphetamine
s are even better. I find it really works well together, because your not too se
dated and your not too speedy. I'm the type of person that likes to get shit don
e while I'm high, so being over sedated is depressing to me.
I'm on mmt and I just got my adderall filled and like always I'm having
a bad comedown. I don't notice the synergy with the methadone. Maybe if I take a
pill before my mmt dose it will feel better.
Anyways I wanted to say that if you can get your hands on lyrica, it is
a miracle drug for coming down off stims. I one was binging on adds and awake fo
r a little over a week.. I was feeling terrible and starting pretty obvious amph
etamine psychosis. I noticed I was getting low on my script of Klonopin and it w
asn't helping anyways so to avoid benzo withdrawal from running out of clonazepa
m early I desperately started searching for an alternative. I tried my baclofen

and it didn't help. Booze didn't help. Bags didn't help. Next I looked at my scr
ipt of lyrica. I swallowed down 5 300mg capsules and about 2 hours later not onl
y did I feel better but it took me completely back to normal. It didn't just hel
p but I felt like I never took an upper before. Seriously that stuff is magic. I
don't know if you consider it a downer but it works many times better than benz
os. Good luck!

when I was first becoming addicted to heroin I shot up meth in the morni
ng to get all ready to go and motivated for the day, then when my people and I w
ere done hitting the day's licks and had the money divvied up for what we really
wanted, we'd cop and shoot H in the afternoon and evening. until I started to t
hink "why the hell am I wasting my money on this shitty meth when I could be was
ting it on a little bit more heroin???" doing that never really seemed to have a
ny ill effect on me. well except that I ended up a full-time junkie in short ord
er.
What effect would result when taking a low dose of adderall during an op
iate high, or at the same time as the opiate. Does one overpower the other (say
if the adderall dose is low compared to the opiate dose). I would guess that the
amphetamine may negate the opiate high, but maybe it makes it more euphoric. An
yone with experience on this please describe the synergy.

Back when I used a bit too much amphetamine and went into amphetamine py
chosis, (esp. when I dosed) I would dose around 150mg of vyvanse then about 4-6
hours then to chill me out since there wasnt much euphoria I was chasing somethi
ng I thought I could still catch. later I would snort 1-4 bags of heroin to chil
l out the pyhcosis. For me it didnt make the high more euphoric but I was a bit
more amp'd up than the usual dope high. The heroin wore off quickly though cause
the amphetamine either overpowered it or it got out of my system quicker.
HOWEVER now that I think of it after my 8 month break from amphetamines
they became euphoric again. I was on about 150mg of vyvanse and I made my way to
the spot to get some xanax. They didnt have any left when I got there so I boug
ht two 30mg roxis. I didnt have a needle so I snorted them, and normally 60mg of
oxy isnt enough to get me high, just feelin nice. The oxycodone mixed with the
d-amp in a good way, I became more uppity, talkitive, and euphoric. How eve the
oxycodone buzz was gone within an hour and during the comedown I was stuck wishi
ng I had saved the oxycodone. I don't know how safe this is but it deff made for
a better high.

I have a script for dexedrine and oxy 30s (roxi) and take them together
all the time. It makes me feel how normal people, who don;t have to take opiate
for pain control, feel. If I choose to get high from the euphoric properties of
the oxy. though, it takes more. But for pain relief, the amphetamine potentieate
s the pain-relieving properties of the opiate. Also, without the amphetamine, th
e tendency to fall asleep from the oxy is a problem. By far, they work best toge
ther.

Dexedrine and Hydrocodone helps me with pain... I am Rx'd both and they

seem to synergies well.

Stronger opiates and amphetamine's feel real nice together. So do benzo'

s and amphetamine's but i dont know if thats a smart thing to do. But it feels g
ood.

im on methadone and when i take dextroamphetamine i usually use ambien a

nd the 175mgs of methadone to come down.... plus it gives me a nice euphoria.

From my experience kratom taken on top of amphetamine sulphate produces

a nice, somewhat erotic feeling.

for me amps completely ruin opiates because its the completely opposite
type of high

I find that Amphetamine synergizes very well with Opioids, especially Mo

rphine, IME.
Opiates + Amphetamines made me sick as hell. Some people like it but I j
ust can't tolerate it.

For me, amphetamines (dex in specific) always overpowers any type of sed
ative that i take before the speed kicks in.. there is only a few occasions wher
e i would say that the polydrug combo of uppers + downers worked in coordination
to make for a better high and that always consists of a 2:1 ratio of uppers to
downers ( i have a amph. tolerance.) specifically, IR benzo's such as alprazolam
or diazepam -or when considering opiates- oxy's, diacetyl, or hyrdomorphone, ar
e the only kind that mixed nicely when taken orally to create a high that intens
ified the euphoria of either drug, exponentially.
Just one mans opinion.
I take prescribed adderall and oxycodone every day. The oxy handles my p
ain for the most part, and never fails to put me in a fantastic mood. The addera
ll I truly fucking need and it transforms me from a good for nothing, procrastin
ating, only do the bare minimum slacker into a driven, fastidious perfectionist.
And after about 8 years, I have kept my daily intake to about 40mgs of adderall
.
My job subjects me to daily interaction with unbelievably annoying, rude
, stupid, piece of shit liar disabled people and plenty of incompetent administr
ators. I work long hours, receive little thanks, and don't get paid for overtime
. And I fucking love it. I have a smile on my face every day, and work my ass of
f and do a kick ass job. This particular combination of drugs keeps me happy, mo

tivated, energetic and sharp during the day, and warm and fuzzy and drousy at ni
ght. Truly a great combination of drugs, and for better or worse they are a dail
y fixture in my life.

I have some 30 mgs xr morphine and 15 mg xr dexedrine and pretty much no

tolerance to either i can anyone describe a good dosage for either of these to
get a good high without one overpowering the other and good synergy. (Also what
route of administration do u advise because I know everyone says dont rail morph
ine but personally railing morphine gets me extremely high and anything that is
not absorbed by the sines then makes its way to the stomach regardless)

When ive been on "street"amphetamine and wanna come to a peace i IV eith

er Heroin(the best ofc or Suboxone.
Its a fine feeling when the opiate takes a bit of control of the wonderf
ull amphetamine buzz.
I recomend this but don't go and do speedball-lights now, like 50% Oxy a
nd 50% Amphetamine in one big shot.

Quote Originally Posted by canucka View Post

For me, amphetamines (dex in specific) always overpowers any type of sed
ative that i take before the speed kicks in.. there is only a few occasions wher
e i would say that the polydrug combo of uppers + downers worked in coordination
to make for a better high and that always consists of a 2:1 ratio of uppers to
downers ( i have a amph. tolerance.) specifically, IR benzo's such as alprazolam
or diazepam -or when considering opiates- oxy's, diacetyl, or hyrdomorphone, ar
e the only kind that mixed nicely when taken orally to create a high that intens
ified the euphoria of either drug, exponentially.
Just one mans opinion.
This is exactly what I came here to say! No matter how much of and opioi
d I will take it seems to not have a any type of sedative qualities when I am co
mbining my d-amphetamine and my methadone at least. I have tripled my dose for t
he day and still have been mildly stimulated 12h+ after taking my dexedrine. The
only thing I have experienced to be helpful in killing an amphetamine high full
-stop is a benzodiazapene such as diazepam or lorazepam. Unfortunately my psychi
atrist believes I can stay sane with 60mg of d-amphetamine a day without somethi
ng to bring me back down at the end. This has led to many multi-night speed-fuel
ed all nighters which can have you a little frazzled along the edges after a whi
le.
Anyone know of something not scheduled or prescription that I could use
for sleep or to mediate the crash at the end of the day using amphetamines? I ha
ve been meaning to get some phenazepam but I have yet to find a supplier whom I
can be sure of the legitimacy. I don't know if this breaks the source rule but i
f someone who has first hand knowledge could PM about sources I can get a foot o
ff this crazy-train and get some damn sleep already!

Valerian is about the best thing you can get OTC that will help knock yo
u out. Take 3-4grams of the stuff and it should help you sleep. Not as good as Z

drugs or benzos but in high enough doses it does have a fairly strong tranquill
iser effect.

I realize this is a year or so later but if you're still in search Lyric

a works really well on the GABAb though it is prescription. If you can't get any
thing rx'd Phenibut seems to work very well to know you right out especially in
a product call MRM Relax All (sorry to source but it really is a fantastic combi
nation for coming down). Also Relora works very similiarly the benzodiazepines a
nd is OTC.

i dont think they synergize well at all they just cancel each other out.
..you just get a speedy feelin a little less than just amphetamines by themself
but its wierd i think it was a complet waste because i like the itch and the war
m feeling of opiates which was cancelled out by the speed

IMO save the opiates for the comedown and use benzo's to level you out o
n amps, I find benzo's make meth so much more enjoyable for me, I am mentally cl
earer and physically more comfortable with benzos in my system. Benzos especiall
y xanax add a great euphoric kick to an amphetamine high, if I mix opiates and m
eth(dont know about Dex/Amp) I often get sick and get a headache plus I need mor
e of both drugs which is more money that I dont have to spend on drugs. Mixing o
piates with amps while your actually still amped is a disappointing waste of her
oin in my eyes and id never do it again. Saving opiates and if possible some ben
zos for the comedown puts the opiates to a much better use I think. I had some s
peed last night and today felt like death so shot some H and now I feel nice, it
s a win situation.
I also find that the more mentally or physically uncomfortable you are b
efore you take benzo's or opiates, the better the drugs feel and after a night o
r few on the speed, especially if youve been dancing or just on your feet consta
ntly you are usually in a shitload of pain and extremely uncomfortable so at tha
t point in my adventures there is nothing better than some opiates or benzo's(so
metimes both though not encouraged, this is treading in dangerous territory)
The rush of a nice blast of H just melting away all that is interfering
with your comfort is so, so satisfying and better than being sober/comfortable a
nd having a shot of H. Its kind of the same how when I used frequently or now be
ing on bupe and methadone in the past I like to wait until I am in severe WD's b
efore I use any H because it makes it that much better at the time due to the pr
evious uncomfort. Afterall H is essentially a painkiller, benzos do seem to have
that same quality of being better if your not feeling mentally or sometimes phy
sically(for eg H WD) well though.
Am I alone on all this? Dont mean to stray off topic at all I just figur
e theres something to the goodness that comes from coming down and having ope's.
Last edited by the_ketaman; 01-01-2012 at 02:23.

One more thing, there is a risk of overdosing on the opiate if you happe
n to take a lot and then you start coming down from the speed and vica-versa. Es

pecially with opiates like methadone that have a long half life(not to mention m
ethadone depresses the system moreso than most other opiates do at similar equiv
alent doses) you really need to be careful you dont have too much because when t
he speed wears off your life could be in danger. Lastly, I wouldnt advise combin
ing opiates and amphetamines unless your experienced with both drugs seperately
and dont take more than you would if you were only taking one of the drugs, in f
act I would say take less.
be safe people

I find that if I try to use any opiates, even tramadols, with meth, it k
ills me. I have tried to use opiates a couple times on the comedown and gotten v
iolently ill. That's just my experience. I don't ever combine the two anymore.

I like speedballs, best of both worlds. It seems the downer takes the ed
ge off and the upper counteracts the sedation, but I still get the euphoria of b
oth.
It's not as bad as mixing two downers, but opiates lower the seizure thr
eshold and block the vagus nerve, which can make tachycardia(heart rate over 100
)worse.Don't know if the vagolytic(vagus blocking) effect of opiates is dangerou
s with stims.

I (unfortunately?) have personally used this combo, only used opiates to

comedown. So I'm the same a the_ketaman.
However, as people have said here is more or less what I've heard elsewh
ere.....
- They really have to be one of the stronger opiates otherwise the amphe
t can easily over-power it (as IknowIsuckDude said)
- None/or minimal actual euphoria (that you might usually get from opiat
es)
I personally would rather just save each, dose a completely separate tim
es and enjoy each heigh for that it is!
It annoyed when I used to buy pills and all they are are basically speed
bombs! I bought a PILL ( == MDx!!!! ) not a bloody speedbomb. If i wanted gear I
would have bought it.
Not to mention the constant debate (re speedballs) which comes up about
how bad it is for you body to be mixing stimulants with depressants (ala Brompto
n Cocktail? :P )

It definitely depends on the person. For me they don't go well together

at all but other people claim its a great combo. However, if I take opioids abou
t 12 hours after taking amphetamines, I enter one of the most euphoric and produ
ctive mindsets I've experienced in my life. In fact, its probably the most eupho
ric and productive mindsets I've experienced. I really want to know what the pha

rmacology behind this is.

Quote Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler

^^^ +1. Like any product/service one pays for, if the consumer is not ha
ppy* with said product, they are fully within their right as a consumer to follo
w the company's procedure and resolve it - which best for both parties - if I re
signed....and hence going back to Uni! in qustion(maybe too muchchoice at that p
oint with their right as a consumer to - in the first insistence acustomer (must
, whether you like it or not) must follow store prodecure/will receive the actua
l productnot(generally) guy, offer a gift-card, or service, ....

* Just wanted it aware

Quote Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler View Post

It definitely depends on the person...
Ah, hadn't heard this before! I'm personally not a fan of not funny basi
c ops presentation - generally they do due tohappy at not enough to generalise t
o bandti-sort jobs.
Quote Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler;10216661+1.
I'm looking into moving into pharmacogenetics,
I really want to know what the pharmacology behind this is.
''
The last segment I separated (the above few) look pretty bare! Nar not t
hat at all - "Pharmacogenetics? - have you been stalking me? :P"
Pharmacology as an entire field is outrageously (expansive and yet) anyw
here from "Comic scentific, realatively new, etc. interest too! I definitely wan
na be handling them but way before it gets too old! lol)helps quite a bi I perso
nally find fascinate.
Good plan and good luck!

Quote Originally Posted by El Patron View Post

I take prescribed adderall and oxycodone every day. The oxy handles my p
ain for the most part, and never fails to put me in a fantastic mood. The addera
ll I truly fucking need and it transforms me from a good for nothing, procrastin
ating, only do the bare minimum slacker into a driven, fastidious perfectionist.
And after about 8 years, I have kept my daily intake to about 40mgs of adderall
.
My job subjects me to daily interaction with unbelievably annoying, rude
, stupid, piece of shit liar disabled people and plenty of incompetent administr

ators. I work long hours, receive little thanks, and don't get paid for overtime
. And I fucking love it. I have a smile on my face every day, and work my ass of
f and do a kick ass job. This particular combination of drugs keeps me happy, mo
tivated, energetic and sharp during the day, and warm and fuzzy and drousy at ni
ght. Truly a great combination of drugs, and for better or worse they are a dail
y fixture in my life.
It seems you've found the perfect mix. I love the Amp/Opiate combo mysel
f but I'm not prescribed Adderall and I sniff bags rather than taking Oxys. Some
times I wish I could be on both drugs at the same time FOREVER lol. The two drug
s complement eachother perfectly for me, although I know it effects everyone dif
ferently. Adderall COMPLETELY kills my appetite, but if I sniff a bag with it I
can eat again. I have no problem eating while on H, it actually increases my app
etite quite a bit. Sometimes when I nod on H, I end up falling asleep for like 2
0 min and realize I just missed the best part!! But with adderall it's like I'm
more aware of the euphoria from the H and can enjoy it without falling asleep. O
ne thing I should add is that IME, the combo is best with smaller doses of adder
all (40mg or less). Anything more than that makes it pointless to take any H wit
h it because the Adderall overpowers it greatly... I'm basically too Amphed up t
o feel or care about anything else. Anything over 40mg + H makes me sick to the
point where I'm puking every 30 min... No fun ??. At least I know better now and
have done enough experimenting to know what the perfect combo FOR ME is. I've d
efinitely found the "sweet spot" ??
... But it scares me that I seek this drug combo to combat depression an
d feel normal rather than getting to the root of my depression. I think if I had
the ability or funds to stay on Amps/H 24/7, I would eventually become WAYYYY t
oo dependant on the mixture, to the point where I would be a huge mess without t
hem. Even if I had a reliable daily supply of both, at some point I'm GOING to r
un out, and then I'd realize how much of a shell of a person I am without them.
The depression I have now is NOTHING compared to the kind of HELL I would face w
hile quitting both Amp/H after 8 years of daily use! I'm pretty miserable for a
few days after just a WEEK of using lol. So It would take me a LONG time to feel
anything even close to normal after 8 years. But to each their own. You know yo
urself better than anyone, and as long as you're happy and healthy then you shou
ld take whatever combo works best for you!
Just curious though, have you ever run out of one of the two drugs durin
g the last 8 years? Or both at the same time? If so, what was it like going with
out them, I mean does it make you feel like a zombie?

I used to IV heroin to come down off a shot of meth for a little while b
efore I decided I'd rather spend all my money on heroin, though IMO there's not
really much of a comedown after a single shot of meth, but it was a fun process.
man I wish I'd had some opiates back when I was a teenager doing 500mg+ of vyva
nse on the 6th or later day of being constantly twacked. would have made those a
wful 36hr comedowns I had to just to get to the point that I could sleep for lik
e 16hrs before hitting up the phet again for another week a LOT more bearable. g
od did that suck.

Quote Originally Posted by Benten866 View Post

It seems you've found the perfect mix. I love the Amp/Opiate combo mysel
f but I'm not prescribed Adderall and I sniff bags rather than taking Oxys. Some
times I wish I could be on both drugs at the same time FOREVER lol. The two drug
s complement eachother perfectly for me, although I know it effects everyone dif
ferently. Adderall COMPLETELY kills my appetite, but if I sniff a bag with it I
can eat again. I have no problem eating while on H, it actually increases my app
etite quite a bit. Sometimes when I nod on H, I end up falling asleep for like 2
0 min and realize I just missed the best part!! But with adderall it's like I'm

more aware of the euphoria from the H and can enjoy it without falling asleep. O
ne thing I should add is that IME, the combo is best with smaller doses of adder
all (40mg or less). Anything more than that makes it pointless to take any H wit
h it because the Adderall overpowers it greatly... I'm basically too Amphed up t
o feel or care about anything else. Anything over 40mg + H makes me sick to the
point where I'm puking every 30 min... No fun ??. At least I know better now and
have done enough experimenting to know what the perfect combo FOR ME is. I've d
efinitely found the "sweet spot" ??
... But it scares me that I seek this drug combo to combat depression an
d feel normal rather than getting to the root of my depression. I think if I had
the ability or funds to stay on Amps/H 24/7, I would eventually become WAYYYY t
oo dependant on the mixture, to the point where I would be a huge mess without t
hem. Even if I had a reliable daily supply of both, at some point I'm GOING to r
un out, and then I'd realize how much of a shell of a person I am without them.
The depression I have now is NOTHING compared to the kind of HELL I would face w
hile quitting both Amp/H after 8 years of daily use! I'm pretty miserable for a
few days after just a WEEK of using lol. So It would take me a LONG time to feel
anything even close to normal after 8 years. But to each their own. You know yo
urself better than anyone, and as long as you're happy and healthy then you shou
ld take whatever combo works best for you!
Just curious though, have you ever run out of one of the two drugs durin
g the last 8 years? Or both at the same time? If so, what was it like going with
out them, I mean does it make you feel like a zombie?
Oh dear. It certainly sounds like you're well on your way to become a po
ly-drug addict. Are you actually physically dependent on the heroin yet? I might
be interpreting this wrong, but your post seemed to suggest that you're not act
ually totally addicted to either substance yet, but you love the combination and
are beginning to binge on them. Am I reading this right here? It also seems to
me like you're not grasping quite how awful it will be if you have to come off a
serious daily habit. You will wish that you were merely "feeling like a zombie"
and experiencing intense depression if you have to go through *serious* heroin
withdrawal. The added element of coming off of the Adderall simultaneously won't
even be that significant if you've become physically hooked on heroin, quitting
the adderall too may just make the awful depression that accompanies heroin wit
hdrawal that little bit worse, but honestly - like the reverse of how adderall o
verpowers the heroin high, heroin withdrawals will completely overpower the negl
igible adderall "withdrawals".
A little while back, me and a friend decided that we were going to both
get sober at the same time. I had been taking heroin daily for a little over fou
r months whereas he had been taking UK "base", which is the stronger form of amp
hetamine that you can buy on the street here, for over a year. We went away to m
y auntys summer home out in the country to do it, and figured that since we'd be
quitting together that we could be a source of strength for each other which wo
uld make it easier. WRONG. I HATED having him there, because I was insanely envi
ous of how fucking EASY he had it. I was throwing up, insanely physically uncomf
ortable, all my muscles ached, I was running to the bathroom every ten minutes,
I would have hot flashes and be pouring with sweat and then the next minute be s
hivering with chills, I couldn't stay still but I had absolutely no energy, and
my emotions alternated between being irritable and angry and pissed off at the w
orld to completely suicidally miserable, and to make it all worse I couldn't eve
n get a minute of sleep, no matter how much I tried & despite being totally exha
usted, so I didn't even get a break from it. While I was going through this, my
friend was sleeping like 12-14 hours a day whilst my insomnia was driving me cra
zy and during the time he was awake he wouldn't stop eating, to the point where
at one stage I even accused him of sneaking some weed up and not sharing it (tur
ns out that this wasn't what happened & that this is just an effect from coming
off speed), so while I was throwing up with the added fun of stomach cramps thro
wn in, this guy was just pigging out eating constantly. Whilst I was curled up i
n agony, really battling through with this horrible, horrible sickness, thinking

of nothing but just how completely shitty I felt and how badly I wanted to use,
my friend when he wasn't sleeping was just laying there on the sofa watching TV
. Sure, he seemed a little "flat" and wasn't exactly upbeat, but compared to wha
t I was going through his "withdrawal" looked like a fucking walk in the park.
I figure you've never gone through heroin withdrawal based on how you sp
oke about coming off of it and because too much adderall and heroin makes you th
row up, and in my experience that is something that would only happen to an inex
perienced user - mixing heroin and a stimulant when you have a tolerance to the
H shouldn't cause any nausea, as Adderall alone doesn't usually cause it. If you
were mixing the heroin with alcohol or something then I'd relate but as an expe
rienced user, heroin hasn't made me nauseous when I'm ON it for a long time - ir
onically, now it just makes me vomit when I HAVEN'T had any - and I've mixed her
oin with coke, crack, base etc.
This post is already kinda long and I realize the rest of the advice I h
ave to give may be a little redundant if you already have a heroin habit and get
WDs, so I'll save that unless I'm right about my initial assumption. However, I
would add that it's a little concerning that your only problem with regular com
bining of Adderall & Heroin seems to be the potential for feeling shitty when yo
u come off of them. Whilst heroin use can obviously cause a lot of problems in y
our life & there's the risk of overdose, if you're not injecting it heroin is ac
tually a really safe drug for your body & mind. It's not toxic to any organs and
doesn't cause any kind of long-term structural brain changes that are indicativ
e of damage - IMO, most of the problems are associated with addiction, and speci
fically with not being able to fund your addiction. If hypothetically you were v
ery rich and taking heroin daily, then indeed you could say that you are "happy
& healthy" and to continue taking it as it works for you.
However, this isn't the case with Adderall. It is not as benign to your
body as heroin - with long-term use comes an increased risk for high blood press
ure, heart attacks & stroke and an extremely higher risk of developing mental il
lnesses like psychosis, anhedonia and depression. Most worryingly in my opinion
is that amphetamine is neurotoxic. In this respect, you'd actually be better off
taking Ritalin or even smoking crack. While it's not as neurotoxic as meth, amp
hetamine has still been shown to cause damage to dopamine receptors, and this is
not just a case of temporary downregulation in response to the elevated levels
caused by amphetamine - amphetamine has been repeatedly shown to cause fundament
al structural changes in the brain & permanent damage to your dopamine receptors
. This has always especially frightened me, because you can get clean from any d
rug, and with most side-effects of most drugs your body can recover. If that dru
g has permanently altered your brain though, there's no going back. Many long-te
rm chronic amphetamine users are left with varying degrees of anhedonia - an inc
apacity to feel any pleasure in normal day-to-day activities, as well as symptom
s resembling depression due to the reduced capacity for the brain to register do
pamine. This can permanently alter your very personality, leaving you without th
e ability to get truly excited like you used to, making you less talkative, more
introverted, more easily fatigued, and just lacking the animated, joyful "spark
" of life.
I have personally met quite a few people who are clearly "burn-outs", th
ose who have been taking speed for a very long time, and they are a worrying sig
ht. Though long-term heroin junkies aren't the greatest advertisement for heroin
, at least (as long as they're not sick) they still have some happiness & joy in
them and it seems as if behind the opiate haze there's still a normal person th
ere, waiting to come out. With the long-term speed users, they just seem like to
tal zombies. Studies have also found that in long-term speed users, IQ, cognitio
n & motivation is significantly reduced. Bear in mind that all these effects ass
ociated with neurotoxicity have been found in many users to persist years after
stopping using speed, with strong evidence pointing towards the structural & fun

ctional changes to the brain, and especially to the ventral tegmental area, are
permanent.
So, please don't think the only issue with using this combo every day is
how bad it's going to be when you stop. Every binge, you're increasing the chan
ce of the adderall causing neurotoxicity that you won't bounce back from, so tho
ugh it's an extremely pleasurable combination, by no stretch of the imagination
can it be described as "healthy. Was I correct in assuming that you don't have a
real heroin habit yet?

Quote Originally Posted by IknowIsuckDude View Post

Stronger opiates and amphetamine's feel real nice together. So do benzo'
s and amphetamine's but i dont know if thats a smart thing to do. But it feels g
ood.
t
For sure, klonopin and adderall is one of my favorite combinations hard
to beat the feeling although I dont think ive ever mixed opiates and amps before
surprisingly

Quote Originally Posted by 024liakam View Post

t
For sure, klonopin and adderall is one of my favorite combinations hard
to beat the feeling although I dont think ive ever mixed opiates and amps before
surprisingly
If you benzos + adderall is "hard to beat" then you're gonna have a brai
ngasm if you mix adderall with oxycodone or opana or heroin.

I do it all the time. I love taking a shot after being revved up on an a

mphetamine all day.
Quote Originally Posted by Rio Fantastic View Post
If you benzos + adderall is "hard to beat" then you're gonna have a brai
ngasm if you mix adderall with oxycodone or opana or heroin.
Nice, what I like to hear haha, ive never had a chance to try opana but
id love too. Im from west virginia so its mostly heroin around here (parkersburg
) never even seen opana or oxy 30s in this area, shits more valuable than platin
um here

Thread: tianeptine as a mood enhancer while on subutex/opiate tolerant

I am interested in trying tianeptine again for its mood enhancing effect
s, perhaps a few days each week.
I know it is classified as an ssre, but others have suggested and i have
experienced that its MOA has something to do with mu opiod rrceptors or endorph
in system.
Coaxil/stablon abusers regularly inject 150mg of the drug from tablets.
To achieve an opiate like rush.

I myself injected the purepowder when i had a moderate heroin terance i

had to shoot doses of 300mg to achieve this rush but it was opiate like qnd did
stave off withdrawals for some hours.
Which leads me to believe tianeptine would be useless or its effectivene
ss dramatically reduced in persons who are opiate tolerant.
Also i would wonder if buprenorphine would block this drug entirely?
I would like to take doses of 50mg x 3 times a day on an irregular basis
and will experiment with my situation when i have some extra cash to spend.
In the meantime could anyone shed some light or give me an opinion on th
is curious drug and its effects?
Perhaps it is only opiate like in super-theraputic doses?...

I don't see any reason stablon would have a cross-tolerance with bupe.
I'm in the same boat as you precisely so let me know how that works out
for you will ya? I have problems subscribing to threads.
Quote Originally Posted by Tryptamite View Post
I am interested in trying tianeptine again for its mood enhancing effect
s, perhaps a few days each week.
I know it is classified as an ssre, but others have suggested and i have
experienced that its MOA has something to do with mu opiod rrceptors or endorph
in system.
Coaxil/stablon abusers regularly inject 150mg of the drug from tablets.
To achieve an opiate like rush.
I myself injected the purepowder when i had a moderate heroin terance i
had to shoot doses of 300mg to achieve this rush but it was opiate like qnd did
stave off withdrawals for some hours.
Which leads me to believe tianeptine would be useless or its effectivene
ss dramatically reduced in persons who are opiate tolerant.
Also i would wonder if buprenorphine would block this drug entirely?
I would like to take doses of 50mg x 3 times a day on an irregular basis
and will experiment with my situation when i have some extra cash to spend.
In the meantime could anyone shed some light or give me an opinion on th
is curious drug and its effects?
Perhaps it is only opiate like in super-theraputic doses?...
Is there any evidence that tianeptine acts on the opiate system, besides
the fact that it gives an opiate-like high and makes withdrawal less painful? I
would guess that the therapeutic effects are more related to its serotonin effe
cts, so it should still be effective (therapeutically) in someone with opiate de
pendence. That might not be true for the recreational effects though.
edit: It is an effective antidepressant during opiate withdrawal, I stil
l haven't seen anything about using both together though.
Last edited by endotropic; 11-03-2014 at 12:19.

Apparently it has no effect on seratonin, and has recently been found to

work on NMDA and AMPA. Very Nice! Just ordered some.
I have no actual evidence to say it works on opiate receptors but I woul
d be very suprised if it did not have some sort of opiate activity at higher dos
es. It does not ease WD symptoms, it completely eliminates them in sufficient do
sages.
There are others on this forum besides me with more experience using tia
neptine as an opiate like drug. I have consumed only 1.25 grams of the substance
. I did use ~20mg oral doses a few times per day for a few days during opiate WD
until I ran out. It didnt hurt, and I imagine it would have helped a lot more i
n higher doses.
I just find it difficult to get my head around it's method of action. SS
RE? Clearly there is more going on than that. TH, where did you read about it wo
rking on NMDA and AMPA?

"Formerly it was called a Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer. Newer research su

ggests that Tianeptine acts through indirect alteration of AMPA and NMDA glutama
te receptor activity and seems to involve altered neuroplasticity and release of
BDNF.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
Quote Originally Posted by TriputoryHeadicine View Post
"Formerly it was called a Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer. Newer research su
ggests that Tianeptine acts through indirect alteration of AMPA and NMDA glutama
te receptor activity and seems to involve altered neuroplasticity and release of
BDNF.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
This had to of been extremely recent. I was just looking at that article
about two weeks ago and they were still calling it a SSRE.

Hmmm, tianeptine just became a lot more interesting to me.

Although the vast majority of neurons in the mammalian brain are formed
prenatally, parts of the adult brain retain the ability to grow new neurons from
neural stem cells in a process known as neurogenesis. Neurotrophins are chemica
ls that help to stimulate and control neurogenesis, BDNF being one of the most a
ctive.[9][10][11] Mice born without the ability to make BDNF suffer developmenta
l defects in the brain and sensory nervous system, and usually die soon after bi
rth, suggesting that BDNF plays an important role in normal neural development.[
12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDNF
Sounds like tianeptine might actually be a true nootropic if this new re
search pans out. No wonder it isn't prescribed in the US.
Quote Originally Posted by MagickalKat777 View Post
Hmmm, tianeptine just became a lot more interesting to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDNF
Sounds like tianeptine might actually be a true nootropic if this new re
search pans out. No wonder it isn't prescribed in the US.
The increase in BDNF is not a feature particular to tianeptine; it seems
to a be a common shared trait of many antidepressants, and it may be predictive
of their effectiveness in an individual:
What you can see here is a correlation between the BDNF levels and a cha
nge in depression score. It turns out that those patients with the highest level
s of BDNF to begin with, had the best improvements in depression score when trea
ted with antidepressants.
From a SciAm quick summary:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...sant-response/
Anyway, I'm not sure if I'd say this would make it a nootropic in the wa
y you're suggesting. Depression has a dumbing effect, but can we say that this r
elease of BDNF will somehow make non-depressed individuals "smarter"? Maybe we d
on't want excess BDNF! Take a look at this:
Brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) overexpression in the forebrain
results in learning and memory impairments.
Cunha C1, Angelucci A, D'Antoni A, Dobrossy MD, Dunnett SB, Berardi N, B
rambilla R.
Author information
Abstract
In this study we analyzed the effect on behavior of a chronic exposure t
o brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), by analysing a mouse line overexpres
sing BDNF under the alphaCaMKII promoter, which drives the transgene expression
exclusively to principal neurons of the forebrain. BDNF transgenic mice and thei
r WT littermates were examined with a battery of behavioral tests, in order to e
valuate motor coordination, learning, short and long-term memory formation. Our
results demonstrate that chronic BDNF overexpression in the central nervous syst
em (CNS) causes learning deficits and short-term memory impairments, both in spa
tial and instrumental learning tasks. This observation suggests that a widesprea
d increase in BDNF in forebrain networks may result in adverse effects on learni
ng and memory formation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19095063
Now, obviously that's a very different situation, but it illustrates the
problems we have with assuming that more of a good thing is always a good thing
.
Quic
Depression has a dumbing effect
I think that depression exerts a far greater skewing effect on self-asse
ssment of intelligence than it does on intelligence itself.
Now, obviously that's a very different situation, but it illustrates the
problems we have with assuming that more of a good thing is always a good thing
.
Good point, and a good corrective to our tendency toward over-enthusiasm
about singular pathways.
ebola
Quote Originally Posted by ebola? View Post

I think that depression exerts a far greater skewing effect on self-asse

ssment of intelligence than it does on intelligence itself.

Good point, and a good corrective to our tendency toward over-enthusiasm

about singular pathways.
ebola
God point yourself madame, depression and dumbing. Can I have your autog
raph? I'm an Ebola fanboy : P
Whilst it could skew ones perception on their intellect, that is not a d
umbing effect.
The dumbing effect comes from dull affect/apathy, if you don't care abou
t things you once did you don't put in the effort to learn about them.
Doing nothing also has an effect. I've found my verbal communication ski
lls degraded from a few years of not talking that much.
Words become harder to find, information is harder to recall, the will t
o do so isn't even there.
I think depression facilitates stupidity not through a purely emotion ba
sis but through taking away the driving force to not be stupid/encouraging intel
lectual atrophy.
Perhaps America is just depressed... nah
so anyone on suboxone try this recreationally? I would love to get some
if every week or two I could get a nice opaite like high while not screwing up m
y subs.
Hey, it's the Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion forum...
Tianeptine is a mu opioid agonist (and to a lesser extent a delta opioid
agonist).
Check out this thread: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/...be-MOR-ago
nist

Quote Originally Posted by supersmoker27 View Post

so anyone on suboxone try this recreationally? I would love to get some
if every week or two I could get a nice opaite like high while not screwing up m
y subs.
I just want to say: I was quite amazed with this compound and felt compe
lled to create an account here to respond. I have been slowwwwwwwly tapering off
Subs for over a year now (currently taking .25mg/day, yet I start to noticeably
withdraw within ~15 hours from my last dose). I've been experimenting with a wi
de assortment of noots, so figured I may as well try Tianeptine. [no sources no
prices] I decided to take a slightly-megadose for my initial attempt (~200mg), w
hich coincidentally happened to be around an hour after I dosed my Sub. I must s
ay, I felt as if I had blown ~15mg of oxycodone after NEVER having taken Subs. T
he Buprenorphine/Nalaxone seems to have absolutely no effect in blocking whichev
er receptors the Tianeptine makes sweet receptor love to. It also did not in any
way disturb my Suboxone cycle. In all honesty, I seemed to no longer NEED the S

uboxone the next two days while I continued to dose the Tianeptine. AND, to make
things better, I was even able to HALVE my daily Suboxone dose after the Tianep
tine ran out (was taking .5mg, now taking .25mg), and my normal taper reduction
would be more like .5mg --> .4mg. I was amazed. I have since ordered 20g more Ti
aneptine. I would say that the 1g I had ended up being equivalent to ~3 Oxycodon
e 30mg pills
And, from what I've read, even if Tianeptine will have withdrawals, they
should be pale in comparison to the months-long Suboxone withdrawals that were
awaiting me.
Awesome legal, cheap high!
(Disclaimer: The substance above [erm... the nootropic supplement, not t
he life-ruining narcotics supplied by my psychiatrist AKA dealer] is for research
only and should not be consumed by humans.)
Last edited by sekio; 07-01-2015 at 18:20.
This doesn't sound all that suprising given that tianeptine is an opioid
agonist. It is very probably that any opioid you took would produce a similar e
ffect. The tianeptine withdrawal may not last as long as the buprenorphine withd
rawal but the same is true for codeine. I'm not convinced that tianeptine is a g
ood solution for you because tianeptine is abused and produces a withdrawal synd
rome, so in the end it might not work any better than codeine would to wean you
off of buprenorphine.
Last edited by serotonin2A; 07-01-2015 at 21:43.

According to the binding data it shouldn't be causing an opioid high, es

pecially one that is comparable to oxycodone. Tianeptine - Ki Human of 383183nM a
nd EC50 Human of 19470nM at MOR. Enough to activate the receptors, sure, but it's
mood lifting properties are more likely mediated through it's effect on glutama
te receptors in the hippocampus.
For reference some pKi values for other MOR agonists:
Morphine - 4.55nM
Methadone - 3.16nM
Oxycodone - 23.4nM
7-OHM - 8.01 nM
I have used Tianeptine recently and I will say that it has potential as
a drug to include at the end of a taper.

Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint View Post

According to the binding data it shouldn't be causing an opioid high, es
pecially one that is comparable to oxycodone. Tianeptine - Ki Human of 383183nM a
nd EC50 Human of 19470nM at MOR. Enough to activate the receptors, sure, but it's
mood lifting properties are more likely mediated through it's effect on glutama
te receptors in the hippocampus.
For reference some pKi values for other MOR agonists:
Morphine - 4.55nM

Methadone - 3.16nM
Oxycodone - 23.4nM
7-OHM - 8.01 nM
I have used Tianeptine recently and I will say that it has potential as
a drug to include at the end of a taper.
I don't see how you can reach the conclusion you did based on the bindin
g data. The Ki and EC50 determine the concentration that a drug will be active a
t, not how efficacious it is. Just because tianeptine has lower affinity then mo
rphine doesn't mean that it couldn't produce just as strong an effect, as long a
s it is present in the brain at a high enough concentration to occupy mu recepto
rs.
(BTW, I don't think the values you cited for morphine et al are pKi sinc
e they were in nM)

According to the binding data it shouldn't be causing an opioid high

serotonin2a's essentially correct about this: binding affinity and effic
acy are only part of the picture, pharmacokinetics looming large in particular.*
However, I'm seeing tianeptine's binding as being just one order of magnitude w
eaker than oxycodone's, the latter being a pretty strong opioid...so it still se
ems plausible that tianeptine functions as a week opioid (but that this activity
could still plausibly prove key in its subjective effects).
*in some sense, both binding affinity and efficacy are abstractions from
qualitatively unique interactions between ligand and active site, resulting cha
nge in receptor geometry, and following signaling cascade, reducing such process
es to singular quantitative indicators.
ebola
Quote Originally Posted by ebola? View Post
serotonin2a's essentially correct about this: binding affinity and effic
acy are only part of the picture, pharmacokinetics looming large in particular.*
However, I'm seeing tianeptine's binding as being just one order of magnitude w
eaker than oxycodone's, the latter being a pretty strong opioid...so it still se
ems plausible that tianeptine functions as a week opioid (but that this activity
could still plausibly prove key in its subjective effects).
*in some sense, both binding affinity and efficacy are abstractions from
qualitatively unique interactions between ligand and active site, resulting cha
nge in receptor geometry, and following signaling cascade, reducing such process
es to singular quantitative indicators.
ebola
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as stro
ng an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an o
pioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Eve
n weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects. More
importantly, tianeptine has reportedly been abused for it's purported opioid ef
fects and seems to relieve opioid withdrawal.
Quote Originally Posted by serotonin2A View Post
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as stro
ng an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an o
pioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Eve

n weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects. More
importantly, tianeptine has reportedly been abused for it's purported opioid ef
fects and seems to relieve opioid withdrawal.
Tianeptine does most definately alleviate opioid WD symptoms. 300mg IV'd
gave me a rush while I had a moderate heroin habit. This was powder, not Coaxil
/Stablon pills.
Quote Originally Posted by 5ht2a
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as stro
ng an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an o
pioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Eve
n weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects.
heh, this was precisely the point I was trying to make; sorry if I was u
nclear.
ebola

I've been trying 12mg doses here and there the last few days, and it def
initely has an effect. I am currently tapering from 6mg to 4mg suboxone/day. I'm
pretty sure it is helping.
Quick reply to this message

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Multi-Quote This Message

How does that affinity rank it among other weak opioids?

I find it interesting that it's most often compared to oxycodone. I imag
ine that's because of its short half life, generally rapid acting, short duratio
n drugs are the most euphoric, and this certainly falls in that category. I imag
ine most people who aren't getting much out of it just aren't taking enough.
I ordered 10g to substitute for suboxone when I run out. I was thinking
I'd start at 25mg 3x a day and move up to 100 2x over 3-5 days as side effects a
ppear or satiation of cravings occurs.
Quote Originally Posted by Hammilton View Post
How does that affinity rank it among other weak opioids?
I find it interesting that it's most often compared to oxycodone. I imag
ine that's because of its short half life, generally rapid acting, short duratio
n drugs are the most euphoric, and this certainly falls in that category. I imag
ine most people who aren't getting much out of it just aren't taking enough.
I ordered 10g to substitute for suboxone when I run out. I was thinking
I'd start at 25mg 3x a day and move up to 100 2x over 3-5 days as side effects a
ppear or satiation of cravings occurs.
I've taken doses past 200mgs, to the point that I started to get physica
lly sick and not once came close to achieving anything on par with oxy. The high
is very short lasting and lacking in depth, reminds me of fentanyl... it always
feels like somethings missing. It also seems to build tolerance very rapidly. A
fter maybe the first 5 doses It became essentially worthless as a recreational d
rug. I do however stick to rectal and oral dosing, you couldn't pay me to stick
this stuff in my veins. All in all after digging into two batches from different
vendors I found tianeptine very mediocre.

I didn't mean that those who found its effects unlike oxy weren't taking
enough, but those who had no effects weren't. We can all disagree over qualitat
ive effects, but whether it produces opioid effects or not isn't in argument.
As someone who isn't prescribed enough suboxone, I run out often. I was
thinking of taking it 3x daily at 100mg per dose to block withdrawal. Will that
do the trick? Was planning to start with a 25mg dose 3x daily and going up until
I stopped feeling sick.
Hammilton: That's crazy! It seems most Sub docs are all-too-eager to ove
r-prescribe the stuff. Never heard of a patient not getting enough. What's your
script, if you don't mind me asking?
As for the topic here, anyone tried this yet? Bupe and tianeptine concur
rently? Given the inexplicable effectiveness of tramadol while on Subs, I'm hopi
ng we've got another such compound on our hands.
edit: I hadn't realized this thread was in N&P; I came across it through
a Google search and had assumed from the contents that it was in BDD. I'm sorry
if my post isn't N&P-appropriate.

Just 2mg a day. At 4mg a day my cravings are eliminated, that's what I w
as on for years before my previous doc quit doing it. Went to the new doc and he
said he only prescribes 2mg. So if I were smart I'd just take 2mg every day, bu
t I'm always craving then. Take 4mg and I'm fine. So then I run out two weeks ea
rly and scrape by. Fortunately I can usually find some, but I'd like not to need
to find any, that's where Tianeptine comes in, I hope, anyway.
I've got 1 2mg dose left for tonight and then I'll start taking tianepti
ne this weekend. Maybe I should start lower doses now to see if I'll tolerate it
and not die.
That is nuts. I'm all for docs prescribing less bupe but that is obvious
ly too little for most people. I'm Rxed 8mg but only take 4 and still fight crav
ings every day. It sucks and I'm starting to think I'd be better off without any
thing tickling those receptors.
Anyway, definitely let us know how your experiments with the tianeptine
go this weekend. Good luck, hope it's effective for you.

So does Tianeptine work while on Suboxone/Subutex (aka Buprenorphine) ??

? Also would it be a good supplement to add to a detox kit while coming off Subs
?
It's not really a supplement, it's a drug.
I'm using it to come off suboxone right now. Last night was three days w
ithout subs, and 200mg last night allowed me to sleep like a baby. When it first
kicked in it felt very oxy like, but that feeling wore off over an hour. I took
another 140mg when withdrawal started appearing again in the morning and it was
gone very quickly. I'm still a little itchy from it. It's hard for me to see th
is being prescribed in 12.5mg doses, as at over 10x that I'm still entirely side

effect free. This stuff feels more benign than anything I've ever taken. A tiny
line of coke feels more threatening. Actually made me excited to go to work tod
ay.
I'm planning on using ~100mg 2x a day as necessary to hold off withdrawa
l, along with a double dose at bedtime, so 100mg in the morning, one during work
if needed and then again at bed, just until I can get some subs.

Quote Originally Posted by Hammilton View Post

It's not really a supplement, it's a drug.
I'm using it to come off suboxone right now. Last night was three days w
ithout subs, and 200mg last night allowed me to sleep like a baby. When it first
kicked in it felt very oxy like, but that feeling wore off over an hour. I took
another 140mg when withdrawal started appearing again in the morning and it was
gone very quickly. I'm still a little itchy from it. It's hard for me to see th
is being prescribed in 12.5mg doses, as at over 10x that I'm still entirely side
effect free. This stuff feels more benign than anything I've ever taken. A tiny
line of coke feels more threatening. Actually made me excited to go to work tod
ay.
I'm planning on using ~100mg 2x a day as necessary to hold off withdrawa
l, along with a double dose at bedtime, so 100mg in the morning, one during work
if needed and then again at bed, just until I can get some subs.
That's good to hear, I am sure Tianeptine is a great thing to use during
sub w/d's... Has anyone else tried it while on sub??? Besides the one post by o
ne guy in this thread saying it helped him wean down or whatever.. And if so wou
ld you need to take around a 200mg dose to get effects... maybe shall try it soo
n and see if it works.. It seems like this thread needs to get back on track "Wi
ll Tianeptine work/have effects while taking Subs" .

Hi Tryptmite. I am on 50mg of Percocet a day and would like to cut down

to 30mg. YOU say that Tianeptine eliminates WD symptoms Completely? I just want
to make sure I understand before I buy Tianeptine and start to cut back my Perco
cet. Thanks. Peace Always. Bartman57
Hey Plasticity do you think it would work for tapering off or reducing o
piates? I want to cut down using Percocet. I use 50mg daily. Thanks. Peace.
I have the VERY same question. Thanks Hammilton. Thanks.

What did I do worth thanking me for?

I'm now seven days since my last 2mg of suboxone. Well, subutex, actuall
y. Absolutely no withdrawal. It took me a while to get my dose worked out, but 1
50mg 2x a day, and 200-240mg gets me very high. I tried 240mg tonight, and in 10
minutes I was coming up quickly. I'm not going to dose this high again, it's to
o much for me, but it does feel like oxy to me. The only problem is that it is e
xtremely short lived, 1.5hrs is about it. It's no good as a recreational drug, i
mho. Too short lived and not potent enough.

However, for a quick taper, or for something to tide you over for a coup
le days when you're out, it's probably a decent option. Long term use would be r
idiculous, once tolerance would set in you'd quickly be up to taking multiple gr
ams a day. Even with my dosing scheme I'm over a half gram a day. If you were ge
tting high on it 3x a day, instead of just staying well, you could easily get to
1000mg doses. And actually, I could see someone using it many times per day due
to the short duration.
I never believed all the early reporting about how people in Russia were
getting a heroin-like high from Coaxil, I thought it was some other sedative mo
de of activity. I'm glad I was wrong.
Quote Originally Posted by Bartman57
Hey Plasticity do you think it would
piates? I want to cut down using Percocet. I
Quote Originally Posted by Hammilton
What did I do worth thanking me for?

View Post
work for tapering off or reducing o
use 50mg daily. Thanks. Peace.
View Post

I'm now seven days since my last 2mg of

y. Absolutely no withdrawal. It took me a while
50mg 2x a day, and 200-240mg gets me very high.
minutes I was coming up quickly. I'm not going
o much for me, but it does feel like oxy to me.
xtremely short lived, 1.5hrs is about it.

suboxone. Well, subutex, actuall

to get my dose worked out, but 1
I tried 240mg tonight, and in 10
to dose this high again, it's to
The only problem is that it is e

If you were getting high on it 3x a day, instead of just staying well, y

ou could easily get to 1000mg doses. And actually, I could see someone using it
many times per day due to the short duration.
Indeed, when I've lost or skipped methadone take homes I was able to fee
l totally comfortable on it for up to 48 hours. Better at times (using ~1g/day).
When using in the morning before dosing, it gets me feeling well and doing jump
ing jacks rather than having to drag myself to the clinic.
HOWEVER, it has extreme withdrawal when you get to high doses (near 1/4
- 1g per day) that last several days. At one point I was unable to see straight
for about 1 day, meaning I couldn't move around much on foot without falling. Ot
her opioids did not resolve this, which is something of a paradox, since it enti
rely resolves opioid withdrawal.
I plan to use it with a loperamide taper (the two together are a good so
lution to lack of opioids when dependent) and then the most painless tianeptine
taper I can manage over a relatively short duration after having been off methad
one a few weeks. Don't imagine it will be smooth seas, but not the 6-week hell o
f methadone cold turkey or year-long taper suggested by clinic.
Reports from most sources suggest it will stop the withdrawal from any c
ommonly used opioid
I have been on subutex for 8 years with a starting dose of 36+mg/day, an
d down to 8mg/day currently with plans to continue tapering dose. I found this b
oard searching for information regarding any contraindications for tianeptine &
subutex. I do not plan on using tianeptine recreationally, but more for anxiolyt
ic properties. I will keep you posted on how they work together with a higher do
se buprenorphine with no withdrawl symptoms.
Quote Originally Posted by Wordsm11th View Post
I just want to say: I was quite amazed with this compound and felt compe
lled to create an account here to respond. I have been slowwwwwwwly tapering off
Subs for over a year now [at 0.25mg/day] ... so figured I may as well try Tiane

ptine[....]200mg, which coincidentally happened to be around an hour after I dos

ed my Sub. I must say, I felt as if I had blown ~15mg of oxycodone after NEVER h
aving taken Subs. The Buprenorphine/Nalaxone seems to have absolutely no effect
in blocking whichever receptors the Tianeptine makes sweet receptor love to.[...
])
Thank you for sharing. No offense (truly, I mean that) but, to be honest
, I would bet my arms or legs to donuts that a Buprenorphine/Naloxone dose that
low wouldn't have blocking activity against much of anything.
I've taken subox/subutex/methadone/opiod agonists at all imsginable dosa
ges since subox became available in America ca. 2000 (?) and b4 that in other co
untries (seemed OTC in Latin America at 0.1mg 40 count) along with many US -rx-o
nly partnets in self chemistry.
Unless you have an epi/genetic mutation making you at least 8-20 x times
more susceptible than typical humans , there's close to zero chance it would ma
tter if you had 0 bupe in you or .25, due it's asymptotic floor and ceiling leve
ls. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested, since I've been taking Tian with Methado
ne or Suboxone (not sinultaneously, lol!) for... I don't know... a year give or
take. Since I have trouble under 0.5-1mg Subx Ive just gone full megadone, and I
do notice the Tia works stronger the further i am from dosing. I've even saved
up emergency 80mg takehomes, up to three in a row, by sticking to 1g Tia every 4
-6 hours. FWIW.
The affinity of tianeptine at MOP receptors isn't mind-blowing, it's har
d to compare it to weak opioids though as most of them rely on metabolites that
have a much higher affinity anyway.
Wasn't it possible to replicate effects caused by classic morphine-like
opioids by some serotonin-related mechanism? I read it long time ago in a thread
here on BL. Perhaps tianeptine brings about similar subjective effects through
a different mechanism that happens to at least partially cause the same downstre
am effects. I bet it would be possible if we only knew exactly how, e.g. cause e
ffects at a different level of the downstream process.
Just to add another data point here: I definitely feel strong opioid eff
ects from higher doses of tianeptine, and even get an uncomfortable, anxious cra
sh with a desire to redose, like I would from something along the lines of a fen
tanyl analog. I get no such feelings from kratom, or even oxycodone. For me, I h
ad to get rid of the stuff because it was so bad when the crash hit and so good
when it started.
I've got a lot of experience with opioids as a chronic pain patient. Whe
n I tried Tianeptine at normal doses (12.5 mg tid) eight years ago, I had no suc
h problems, but do remember a couple times when I'd take three at a time and go,
"Wow, I feel pretty good!". We didn't have all the MOR data back then, but now,
it's all pretty obvious.
I'd personally never touch it again.

I just want to chime in and state that though this is admittedly purely
subjective, I am 100% certain that tianeptine, taken at sufficient doses acts ev
ery bit as a full agonist, fully capable of substituting for traditional mu agon
ists. The recent literature documenting tianeptine as a mu agonist supports this
as well.
To give an idea of its effectiveness, suffice to say that when not takin

g my standard prescribed opioid (very high dose oxymorphone), I have found that
where 80mg of oxycodone taken 3 times a day still leaves me with some minor disc
omfort, 200mg of tianeptine completely abolishes any trace of withdrawal....the
caveat being that within 3 hrs max, WD rapidly begins.
In situations where I've found myself out of oxymorphone, having access
to both 240mg of oxycodone to get me through the day and a gram or 2 of tianepti
ne, I would choose the tianeptine every time to ameliorate the opana withdrawal.
For a drug most in the US have never heard of, I consider this to be perhaps th
e most significant discovery as of late with regards to tools useful in opioid w
ithdrawal.
Now what information I would love to have, as someone else has asked in
this thread, is, how will tianeptine play with suboxone. Given my near certainty
that tianeptine exerts it's incredible WD alleviating abilities via its clear m
u agonism, I have to believe the suboxone would fully block tianeptine.
But even more pressing is the question of the possibility of suboxone ca
using precipitated WD w someone who is opioid dependent and currently maintainin
g on tianeptine. For example, say I were to switch from my high dose opana to 20
0mg tianeptine taken every 3 hrs to stave off withdrawal. If after a week of thi
s regimen I decide to switch to suboxone, is it likely to cause precip WD?
Again, based on my assumption that tianeptine abolishes opioid WD due so
lely (or at least overwhelminglym so) to its mu agonism, I would hypothesize tha
t suboxone would be liable to creat precip WD just as it would if one were maint
aining on any other short acting full agonist with lower affinity. However, give
n that WD sets in pretty aggressively at then3-4 hr mark, I would think one coul
d avoid PW by waiting a mere 4 hours after last dose of tianeptine.
So...has anyone used tianeptine while on bupe, and if so, what were the
results (the tianeptine dose would have to be at least 150 mg in anyone opioid t
olerant for this to yield valid results.
AND-has anyone opioid dependent who was maintaining on tianeptine tried
switching over to bupe, and if so, what occurred?
Extraordinarily interesting drug. Begs the question of the possibility o
f the existence of, or potential development of a related chemical with much lon
ger duration. Such a drug would be absolute game changer in terms of opioid repl
acement therapy.
Lastly-for the sake of HR..yes IV tianeptine produces quite the opioid r
ush at 200mg and up in opioid tolerant individuals and even more interesting, re
peat dosing, even after a interval of 10 minute does not seem to reduce this rus
h. This is something I've never seen in any opioid. HOWEVER this chemical is the
quickest way to trash your veins that I've ever encountered. And no it's not si
mply the Russians injecting the pills that developw problems- pure tianeptine po
wder is fully capable of trashing your veins in a weeks time. Whether adjusting
th pH could mitigate this I am unsure of, but just...don't.
Hi guys,
I have experience that would be beneficial for this thread. Before getti
ng opiate addicted and getting on Suboxone, I was using Tianeptine recreationaly
at 12.5mg pils x 10 or 15 which makes 125 - 175 mgs of Tianeptine, it gave me s
trong euphoric effect compared to low dose of MDMA x Heroin. I tought this is th
e best drug I have ever tried.
Since starting Suboxone (now 9 months on), I am still prescribed Tianept
ine and sometimes trying to repeat euphoric experience by taking around 150mg, b

ut it has no effect close to what It used to have before starting Suboxone. Some
times I feel better mood, but Naloxone in Subs is greatly dimishing Tianeptine e
ffects and feel almost no euphoria. I think that this is what original poster an
d many more people of this thread were asking...
Btw in Slovakia, doctors and most patients have no clue, that It could b
e used recreationally... which is good, so It does not get banned soon. I hope.
I am 100 percent sure Tianeptine /Coaxil in my country/ has opioid affin
ity and using Suboxone and Coaxil together can mess little bit with mu receptors
, because I feel less euphoria from both, but cant help to stop using them toget
her.. Take care!
Hi guys. My first post. I basically made an account so I could post this
after a while of very educational reading.
I heard about this drug yesterday. The site I ordered from went out of t
here way to discern that I had ordered the sulfate form.
This spurred further research and from what I found, the sulfate is much
longer acting and doesnt require a re-dose. The top result on google only carri
es the sodium.
However, since one of you posted that they would love to see a longer-ac
ting version I wanted to make it known, if not already that a longer acting vers
ion now exists as a sulfate..
Hope this helps someone, as Ive noticed 80% of the posts,on this forum s
eem to have the intent of helping.. Thats what made me join anyway.
Hope everyone is having a good, safe weekend.
Edit: I updated my post. IV TIAN BAD = sent me to the E.R. in 3 weeks w/
2 different complications. Had done I've drugs 8 years w/o a complication. IV T
IAN BAD, no matter which way you prepare it, even dilluting down the solution an
d using a huge 5 cc rig to negate the basic ph, the polarity's still going to be
bad.
I can confirm that Tianeptine (sodium, the common powder) has fully quel
led my 1 1/2 year 10 grams a dayish kratom habit w/d symptoms. I also am an I.V.
drug user and know the only safe way to I.V. tianeptine is to not go over 93 mg
's per 1 cc, or else your solution becomes to viscous (I know polarities and iso
tonics are involved in its solulation, and if you try and make too strong a conc
entration it does indeed become a) glue like b) caustic to veins. It does not hu
rt to shoot but it is definitely for people w/ 5+ years I.V. experience because
it's not one you want to miss. Ever. Reports of necrosis and advanced complicati
ons are mainly linked w/ silica gel in stablon tablets. That being said this shi
t will screw up your veins, and if not for the fact that I already had serious v
ein damage anyway, I wouldn't have gone for it.
The upside: Tolerance doesn't build that fast, at least coming from a lo
w opiod habit like the kratom one I described. It's something you can binge / us
e to quiet something else for about a week max. And when 2-3 cc's worth of solut
ion are I.V'd correctly it does induce a dilaudid like rush. And that's in someo
ne who can fire 2 8 mgs dil's with no tolerance to say of (except for a decade o
f natural/mental tolerance build up/receptor damage) and not feel as high from 1
6 mgs IV dilaudid than i would 200 mgs Tianept. But it has a slightly, just ever
so slightly "different" rush and feel than Dil. Essentially for me it was like

taking a fresh drug in its own class I had never been exposed to. Although I kno
w more about the extreme side of it's use because I'm pretty sure I was I'v'ing
the first day. I could see how for someone not on the other side of quitting, so
meone early in their addiction, could get a hold of this and really fuck their s
hit up. Even abusing it orally would be unwise. Think like those crazy phenibut
habits. Well the reason you find reports of people abusing tianept. like me is b
ecause for us, it seems to work, like every time. I've mixed it w/ coke and foun
d it be amazing, basically a cheap ghetto speed ball if you will (w/ one half be
ing legal and cheap). I mean, I'm a guy whos had serious heroin habits/ binges,
I could get higher for 50 cents worth of tianept than 50 dollars of my citys str
eet dope. But it's a novelty thing in those doses, not a long term replacement /
subsistute.
Sub + Tian. I took a low dose of my one 8 mg sub im using for the detox
from kratom/ tianept. about 3 days ago i took 2-3 mgs of sub/nalax (btw people i
n case u didnt already know nalax is non active, look it up), this is like 2 day
s into my tianept switch from Kratom. No interference no percepitated w/d. that
being said i hadn't taken any sub in weeks and weeks so I would not use that rep
ort as evidence the combo is "ok".
Also as people say, potential for a terrible large habit from say, going
through more than 10 grams in 2 weeks would just get expontially worse. The sho
rt Half life means frequent re-dosing, IV coke like pin pricking, but you're cle
ar headed enough to not hurt yourself like IV coke. I can update to let everyone
know what happens after a roughly 12-16 day 5 gram binge.
UPDATE: Tian IV trashes your vein no matter which way you do it. 2-3 wee
ks and I had cellulitis and a supificial bloodclot. First drug to send me to the
E.r. and it did in 3 weeks. again IV TIAN BAD.
If anyone is considering IV'ng this. AND I CANT TALK YOU OUT OF IT, even
after reading the sentences above this, send me a pm and I will send very impor
tant, explicit directions, because I think I've got it down on multiple fronts a
s far as HR. (still harmful as fuck, but pm me if you want HR, HR is HR, all HR
is good.)
Last edited by jayjay12; 18-03-2016 at 00:38.
Quote Originally Posted by jayjay12 View Post
I can confirm that Tianeptine (sodium, the common powder) has fully quel
led my 1 1/2 year 10 grams a dayish kratom habit w/d symptoms. I also am an I.V.
drug user and know the only safe way to I.V. tianeptine is to not go over 93 mg
's per 1 cc, or else your solution becomes to viscous (I know polarities and iso
tonics are involved in its solulation, and if you try and make too strong a conc
entration it does indeed become a) glue like b) caustic to veins. It does not hu
rt to shoot but it is definitely for people w/ 5+ years I.V. experience because
it's not one you want to miss. Ever. Reports of necrosis and advanced complicati
ons are mainly linked w/ silica gel in stablon tablets. That being said this shi
t will screw up your veins, and if not for the fact that I already had serious v
ein damage anyway, I wouldn't have gone for it.
The upside: Tolerance doesn't build that fast, at least coming from a lo
w opiod habit like the kratom one I described. It's something you can binge / us
e to quiet something else for about a week max. And when 2-3 cc's worth of solut
ion are I.V'd correctly it does induce a dilaudid like rush. And that's in someo
ne who can fire 2 8 mgs dil's with no tolerance to say of (except for a decade o
f natural/mental tolerance build up/receptor damage) and not feel as high from 1
6 mgs IV dilaudid than i would 200 mgs Tianept. But it has a slightly, just ever
so slightly "different" rush and feel than Dil. Essentially for me it was like

taking a fresh drug in its own class I had never been exposed to. Although I kno
w more about the extreme side of it's use because I'm pretty sure I was I'v'ing
the first day. I could see how for someone not on the other side of quitting, so
meone early in their addiction, could get a hold of this and really fuck their s
hit up. Even abusing it orally would be unwise. Think like those crazy phenibut
habits. Well the reason you find reports of people abusing tianept. like me is b
ecause for us, it seems to work, like every time. I've mixed it w/ coke and foun
d it be amazing, basically a cheap ghetto speed ball if you will (w/ one half be
ing legal and cheap). I mean, I'm a guy who's been to Ho Chi Min city and had se
rious heroin habits/ binges, I could get higher for 50 cents worth of tianept th
an 50 dollars of my citys street dope. But it's a novelty thing in those doses,
not a long term replacement / subsistute.
Sub + Tian. I took a low dose of my one 8 mg sub im using for the detox
from kratom/ tianept. about 3 days ago i took 2-3 mgs of sub/nalax (btw people i
n case u didnt already know nalax is non active, look it up), this is like 2 day
s into my tianept switch from Kratom. No interference no percepitated w/d. that
being said i hadn't taken any sub in weeks and weeks so I would not use that rep
ort as evidence the combo is "ok".
Also as people say, potential for a terrible large habit from say, going
through more than 10 grams in 2 weeks would just get expontially worse. The sho
rt Half life means frequent re-dosing, IV coke like pin pricking, but you're cle
ar headed enough to not hurt yourself like IV coke. I can update to let everyone
know what happens after a roughly 12-16 day 5 gram binge.
If anyone is considering IV'ng this send me a pm and I will send very im
portant, explicit directions, because I think I've got it down on multiple front
s as far as HR. (still harmful as fuck, but pm me if you want HR, HR is HR, all
HR is good.)
Hey im new here cant figure out how to pm you but was interested on how
to properly iv tianeptine

Yea, talking about Tian I.V. is kind of a point of contention with me...
.Like it's the only drug to send me to the hospital ever, and it did it in less
than a month with 2 different I.v complications that could have only been tian a
t the time. So I almost deleted my post on it, but then when I went to do that s
omeone had asked a question. and I realized the whole point of blue light and HR
is people are going to do what they're going to do, so you might as well arm th
em with knowledge. So yea the knowledge is that I.V. tian screws your veins up n
o matter how you do it, even w/ a watered down 3 or 5cc rig the polarity of the
fluid isn't going to be right.
To answer about tian and sub: I gave a shot of about 150 mgs to a friend
who is on a quite low dose of sub, between 1-2 mgs a day, shot was for sure not
a miss. (everyone should keep in note tian is not one to miss with) and the res
eaults: He felt NOTHING.
and more news: A freind of mine's oral tianeptine habit got out of contr
ol: a freind gave him I think either 2 or mgs sub, this is literally like right
after hes taken tian, and the sub took about 30 minutes to completely kick all t
hat tian off the receptors and those buprenorphine guys did their lovely lovely
thing just as normal. No percipitated W/d, however length of subjects Tian habit
was only a month, but in excess of a gram a day. So, from this report, Sub take
n directly after tian, the buprenorphine has such high affinity i've found it al
ways just kicks off weaker agonists, i.e. I've done the same with a kratom habit
.

I think i accidentally deleted my last message but thanks for all the in
fo you talked me out of it for now lol but i too had a pretty long term kratom h
abit than ended up with me going back to H now im tapering off subs with benzos
and i tried oral tianeptine but the effect was short lived as others have mentio
ned im only down to like 1mg sub a day but I'm kindof a pussy when it comes to w
d you think itd be worth oral tian to taper all the way down or should i switch
back and forth for a few more days im also afraid of precip wd
Quote Originally Posted by b00mh34d5h0t View Post
I think i accidentally deleted my last message but thanks for all the in
fo you talked me out of it for now lol but i too had a pretty long term kratom h
abit than ended up with me going back to H now im tapering off subs with benzos
and i tried oral tianeptine but the effect was short lived as others have mentio
ned im only down to like 1mg sub a day but I'm kindof a pussy when it comes to w
d you think itd be worth oral tian to taper all the way down or should i switch
back and forth for a few more days im also afraid of precip wd
Quote Originally Posted by jayjay12 View Post
Yea, talking about Tian I.V. is kind of a point of contention with me...
.Like it's the only drug to send me to the hospital ever, and it did it in less
than a month with 2 different I.v complications that could have only been tian a
t the time. So I almost deleted my post on it, but then when I went to do that s
omeone had asked a question. and I realized the whole point of blue light and HR
is people are going to do what they're going to do, so you might as well arm th
em with knowledge. So yea the knowledge is that I.V. tian screws your veins up n
o matter how you do it, even w/ a watered down 3 or 5cc rig the polarity of the
fluid isn't going to be right.
To answer about tian and sub: I gave a shot of about 150 mgs to a friend
who is on a quite low dose of sub, between 1-2 mgs a day, shot was for sure not
a miss. (everyone should keep in note tian is not one to miss with) and the res
eaults: He felt NOTHING.
and more news: A freind of mine's oral tianeptine habit got out of contr
ol: a freind gave him I think either 2 or mgs sub, this is literally like right
after hes taken tian, and the sub took about 30 minutes to completely kick all t
hat tian off the receptors and those buprenorphine guys did their lovely lovely
thing just as normal. No percipitated W/d, however length of subjects Tian habit
was only a month, but in excess of a gram a day. So, from this report, Sub take
n directly after tian, the buprenorphine has such high affinity i've found it al
ways just kicks off weaker agonists, i.e. I've done the same with a kratom habit
.
Also i still have kratom at my disposal but i dont want to get stuck on
that shit again and as far as the subs ive only been on them for a month and im
down to about 1mg a day so any advice on that would be really helpful I'm trying
to quit everything but the systems working against me so im on my own ...
How bad are those kratom wd's anyway? cant be as bad or prolonged wd as heroin
or other synthetic opiates

As a curious side-note, I sort of developed a bit of a tianeptine proble

m, taking about 2 grams orally ever other day (and sometimes, everyday) for abou
t 2 months. The withdrawal was short lived and of relatively low intensity. Afte
r stopping for 2 weeks, I figured that I could use that compound perhaps once a
week at most without any problem. Also, note that very large doses seem to be co
nsiderably longer lasting. In my case, a single oral dose of 1.5 grams can be fe
lt well into the next day (assuming it was taken the previous afternoon), with a

fair degree of residual somnolence, miosis etc.

Note, cimetidine has profound effects when it comes to this compound (in
fact, I've never seen cimetidine work so profoundly). While I can normally take
1.5 grams of tianeptine in a single dose, 800mg of cimetidine turned 1 gram of
tianeptine into a sweaty, somewhat uncomfortable experience with fully pinpointe
d pupils and so forth. In fact, I nearly vomited (something notable, as I am gen
erally insensitive to the pro-emetic qualities of opioids). In a way however, ti
aneptine is more interesting (albeit far more wasteful) in the absence of cimeti
dine, as something else (something beyond MOR agonism) is clearly happening with
this compound at high doses which makes it interesting (maybe NMDA mediated).
That said, though it seems relatively benign (I think), there is an unse
ttling element when taking massive overdoses of an antidepressant in the goal of
eliciting a recreational narcosis (a dirty one at that). Nonetheless, I had a p
henomenally transcendent sexual experience with a slightly to moderately overwei
ght and somewhat homely girl after taking a total of 3+ grams of tianeptine. Gra
nted, given the relatively profound degree of narcosis I was unable to reach com
pletion (and there was some issues with tumescence) but it was an exceptionally
dream-like and ethereal encounter. I may have been hallucinating because she loo
ked phenomenal.
And just to be on topic, tianeptine may hold promise in respect to bupre
norphine withdrawal, given tianeptines short half-life and it's failure to (in m
y case) exhibit profound withdrawal symptoms on its own. That said, those with s
elf-control issues may quickly run into problems with such a short acting compou
nd.
this short acting effect from tianeptine pisses me off. hence why dosing
too high regularly is a problem. do you think if you take very little bit of ti
aneptine mixed with cimetidine will pronounce the positive effect for longer wit
hout the need for redosing and absence of what you described as nasty side effec
ts?
yikes on second note i read about cimetidine it looks like a nasty drug.
im still actively seeking anything to potentiate low dose tianeptine, any clues
and recommendations highly appreciated!

After thoroughly experiencing tianeptine while not on suboxone or other

opiate, and then getting back on the sub bus (ha that's a palindrome) and trying
tianeptine again I can say with certainty in my case that tianeptine has nearly
zero positive effects while on suboxone. Maybe there is some effect at very hig
h dose like 70-100mg but it's a complete waste of material. Tianeptine has much
more value after jumping off suboxone.
i think we all figured out this long ago that suboxies block any opiatic
effect of any drug and now you are just realizing it....
im more interested in what potentiates tianeptine even more, better with
less dose rather than what blocks it or minimizes its effect!
Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
i think we all figured out this long ago that suboxies block any opiatic
effect of any drug and now you are just realizing it....
im more interested in what potentiates tianeptine even more, better with

less dose rather than what blocks it or minimizes its effect!

Off topic at this point, but I've been reading reports of people having
very positive experience combining tianeptine with micro doses of psychedelics,
or dissociatives for a synergistic/potentiating result. These are for the most p
art larger doses of tianeptine, like up to 50mg.
Update 4/28 I skipped my suboxone dose today and was surprised a how muc
h tianeptine I needed to catch any sort of buzz, but it did eliminate WD symptom
s which tend to hit me fast at the 24 hr mark without suboxone. I'm hoping tomor
row I will be able to lower the doses because I should have a lot less suboxone
stuck to my receptors.
why are you taking suboxies anyway they are just few weeks regime for wd
from potent opiates after which they are not worthy of anything. and how much t
ianepts did you take to feel anything? btw you might need more and more of them
since tolerance builds so quick its annoying as hell but it is what it is
Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
why are you taking suboxies anyway they are just few weeks regime for wd
from potent opiates after which they are not worthy of anything. and how much t
ianepts did you take to feel anything? btw you might need more and more of them
since tolerance builds so quick its annoying as hell but it is what it is
..I know...now...but I had the misfortune of being on sub for 18 months.
..and I just was not able to get myself balanced or right in the head after I ju
mped off from a gradual taper. Four and a half months later I got back into the
program, and that was a few weeks ago. I know this time not to be on them for so
long, so I am experimenting with different ways to handle/manage the inevitable
comedown soon...
Anyone familiar with Agmatine? Sounds like it would be good for potentia
ting/lowering tolerance for tianeptine. If I can take that and be able to taper
the tianeptine after I jump off sub that's sounds like a decent plan
agmatine is one of those OTC things where you will need big doses to fee
l anything slightly likely unhelpful. i did the sulfate type for a while but i u
sed huge doses and it barely gave me a nice clean calm feeling but it wasnt wort
h the big doses and also the expense it comes with. tho i never tried it for low
ering tolerance for anything, but i have read this before that it might help so
who knows, interesting to try it before and after opiate use i guess...

I'm trying it for tolerance to opiates atm. I'll report later.

I am currently prescribed 20 mg of Suboxone daily, although I rarely tak
e more than 8 to 12 mg. This morning I took an 8 mg strip (6:30 a.m.) and stagge
red a dose of 6 grams of gabapentin between 5 a.m. and 1 p.m. I received my firs
t shipment of tianeptine this afternoon, and I dosed 100 mgs at 4:45 p.m. 50 min
utes later I didn't feel much of anything, so I started getting my supplies toge
ther for my second dose of Sub (I use grain alcohol to aid absorption). Before I
could even cut open the package, I suddenly realized that I felt slightly giddy
and light headed. I wouldn't compare it to oxy, but maybe tramadol without the
speedy, nasty, and anxious agitation that trams typically cause in me.
My point is that tianeptine definitely has an effect for someone who reg
ularly takes Subs. I'd like to abstain from the bupe for a day or two to see if

the tianeptine would work even better, but my doctor is bitching about my levels
being too low. I'm basically being forced to take way more medication than I wa
nt or need. I am thankful for bupe giving my life back, but many doctors are run
ning a plant that manufactures patients\bupe slaves. It's certainly a Catch-22 f
or any opiate addict that wants to keep a job, a roof over their head, and food
on the table. In the words of a man much wiser than I, "Ain't that some shit".
colemanito, im quite curious about this daring idea of trying tianepts w
ith suboxies for a day or two when off and report result please. i cannot believ
e doctors will keep you on such tight leash. as if being opiate slave aint enoug
h you gotta also be anyone who isnt on opiates bitch
Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
colemanito, im quite curious about this daring idea of trying tianepts w
ith suboxies for a day or two when off and report result please. i cannot believ
e doctors will keep you on such tight leash. as if being opiate slave aint enoug
h you gotta also be anyone who isnt on opiates bitch
I can answer that question. I have done this a few times recently. On 3
occasions between my regular suboxone regimen I have used tianeptine for 2-3 day
s at a time. The doses are pretty ridiculous compared to someone who is opiate-n
iave, about a gram a day by the 3rd day. I can imagine those doses being even gr
eater for someone who is taking 8-12 mg of subs per day, as I am only prescribed
4mg/day. Regardless I had pretty good results. If it weren't for the rapid tole
rance increase of tianeptine I would greatly prefer the effects of tianeptine ov
er suboxone. Much more light-hearted, energetic, and my body felt more balanced
in those days as well. For some reason, maybe it is the partial-agonism of subox
one, I am more likely to have loose stools on suboxone. On those few days of tia
neptine, and even a few days afterwards, I have very 'desireable' stool consiste
ncy...with that said I don't have a colon due to having a complete colectomy whe
n I was an adolescent (ulcerative colitis), so any medication that slows down my
intestinal mobility is highly desired. Suboxone doesn't have that effect on me,
so I have to revert back to my drinking a gallon of water a day and taking more
bathroom breaks than any normal person. TMI, I know, but just trying to explain
why I prefer those few days of using tianeptine maintanence over sub maintenanc
e.
With so much evidence that tianeptine can clearly substitute for opioids
, then I guess the question arises whether it's possible to modify the structure
to make it better. I don't like that carboxylic acid at the end of the chain, I
'm wondering what changing it for an amide would do (might ruin it though as wel
l).
Being at such a low dose of buprenorphine as 0.5-1mg, I suppose, you cou
ld switch to any opioid and maintain on it without withdrawal, so it is true tha
t tianeptine is no miracle drug to taper off buprenorphine, but then again no ot
her opioid seems to be so freely available. Kratom for me sounds much like trama
dol, but if it doesn't feel as dirty I might consider trying it if my buprenorph
ine taper begins to fail at some point. The truth is I'd rather taper the last m
g with codeine or DHC but unless one has access to pharm grade codeine or DHC, i
t makes no sense at all to invest money into OTC products. I might be long way f
rom getting off bupe right now, but somehow I still think it can't be more painf
ul to very slowly taper off bupe than switching to a weak opioid like codeine at
the end.
The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0
v1.0

Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOdure View Post

Okay; sorry another one here. I'm interested in VALID and WORKING potena
tion techniques everyone uses out there to boost they're opiates.
You can include boosting opiates/opioids with more or other opioids; or
other psychoactive drugs. But...
I'd prefer we focus on either opiate boosters, OR easily accessable, non
-psychoactive chemicals. But all others are welcome aside from the obvious: pot,
benzo's, alcohol etc. unless you've got something interesting to add.
Remember, include doses, time intervals, the substance, your tolerance a
nd daily use, the experience, and other specifics! So be concise, to the point,
and specific.
Pharmacological discussion is welcome and preferred! All you doctors, ne
urologists, and chemists are welcome too. Keep my use of big words in line

Antihistamines
Common OTC antihistamine potentiators
Chlorpheniramine
Cyclizine
Dimenhydrinate
Diphenhydramine
Doxylamine
Meclizine
Common Rx antihistamine potentiators
Hydroxyzine
Orphenadrine
Promethazine
Antihistamine-related potentiators
Cyclobenzaprine
Tricyclic Antidepressants
In general, the earlier (first generation) antihistamines are better sui
ted for potentiation due to their sedative properties. Newer antihistamines such
as loratidine, cetirizine and fexofenadine may relief pruritis (itching) but wi
ll not substantially add to the opioid effects. prescription status of various m
edications will vary by location also.
Cannabinoids
GABA-A Receptor Positive Allosteric Modulators (GABAergics)
Alcohol
Benzodiazepines
Barbiturates
Carbamates (see below - Skeletal Muscle Relaxants)
1,4-BDO, GBL, GHB
Nonbenzodiazepines
Quinazolinones
Valerian

NMDA Antagonists
Dextromethorphan (DXM)
Ketamine
Methoxetamine
Nitrous Oxide
Phencyclidine (PCP)
Phencyclidine Analogues
Tiletamine
Skeletal Muscle Relaxants
Baclofen
Carisoprodol
Cyclobenzaprine
Metaxalone
Methocarbamol
Orphenadrine
Opioids
Low Dose Naltrexone
Methadone
Tramadol

Just add Soma brand muscle relaxants to any opiates. Not all muscle rela
xants are good like Flexeril, that stuff sucks. Soma imo is one of the best pote
ntiating pills you could take.
I look forward to this thread....keep suggestions coming!

Does anyone know what dose of Benadryl would be required to potentiate 1

5mg of Oxycodone?

25-50 mg is generally what i take with that dose

I add 30 mg IR morphine when i take 40mg oxycodone and this works nice,
easy come down, i take it 25min after i take the oxy. I also use the CWE method
for extraction of the oxy in my endocet. 155lbs recreational/weekend user not da
ily user.
Was wondering if ingesting a Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitor (cimetidin
e), an hour or so before insufflating a given dose of oxycodone would benefit me
in terms of delaying the elimination of the oxycodone from the body, Or would t
he given route of administration of the oxy negate the use of the cytochrome P45
0 inhibitor?

2mg dilauded crushed mixed with "1 line" of cocaine. Much stronger than
either one by itself.

For the love of god, since the LAST opiate potnetiation thread was a zil
lion pages long, I respectfully suggest that people ONLY post legit questions an
d answers. Let's not bloat this thread with posts like "lol" and "thanks!"
Remember, future generations are going to have to read this entire threa
d looking for suggestions, let's make it easy for them and not fill this thread
with unnecessary posts.

^this. Thank you

Quote Originally Posted by Pink1966Floyd View Post
Was wondering if ingesting a Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitor (cimetidin
e), an hour or so before insufflating a given dose of oxycodone would benefit me
in terms of delaying the elimination of the oxycodone from the body, Or would t
he given route of administration of the oxy negate the use of the cytochrome P45
0 inhibitor?
When you potentiate via enzyme inhibition/induction, ROA is irrelevant.
The potentiation occurs by 'busying' the liver enzymes that break down the drug
of choice so to speak, so as long as the two chemicals get into your blood strea
m, it'll work... now whether or not it will potentiate it substantially is anoth
er question.

This Only works on non-codeine opioids:

A white grapfruit juce and tonic water cocktail
Tagamet and tums, If taking oraly.
DPH
Synergizers:
Soma, low doses of DXM, Narproxen, and cannabis or booze.
If you use the booze, DON'T use narproxen or vice versa.
Also, DXM keeps down tolerance, so it's even better.

I didn't find promethazine anywhere, it works amazing. And not to mentio

n combats opiate side effects.
^the second post wasn't approved while we made the list of common potent
iators but I just approved it, so its on there.

I have 2 5/325 hydrocodone pills but since i have a fairly high toleranc
e level im afraid that if i take these orally i wont get a buzz. i usually have
to take 4 or 5 of these to get a good buzz. what other ways can i take them that
would increase the high? if any.
fuck snorting them and im not going to inject them. help pls
This may get shut down as we aren't here to help you get higher. That be

ing said...
You can extract the hydrocodone doing a cold water extraction, then snor
t it or plug it. I'm not sure about enzymes but bet you want to leave them alone
to get hydromorphone and not overly process the hydrocodone. You might try some
known pontentiaters though (alcohol etc.) but would have to be extremely carefu
l.
edit:
a cold water extraction (CWE) should always be done when abusing product
s containing acetaminophen. It has a very small difference between regular dose
and overdose.
Last edited by amapola; 16-11-2010 at 19:34.

I'm going to merge your thread in with the Ultimate Opiate Potentiation
Mega Thread v2.0. It'll have the information you need.
prometazine xanax and... mixing oxy with dilaudid IV'ed together work th
e best for me

Soma ftw.
What about loperamide anybody use it as a potentiator?
oh i almost forgot soma is great for it thank you love2party
Quote Originally Posted by mrflowers00 View Post
oh i almost forgot soma is great for it thank you love2party
Captain H. listed it in his post. I'm just a big fan of soma with opiate
s, soma by itself, meh.
I tried grapefruit juice for the first time the other day. Surprisingly
it worked, I was skeptical but enough people on this site said that it worked, s
o that was good enough for me. I tried a 100% grapefruit drink I got at the gas
station across the street from the hotel I was in. I saved it for my morning dos
e because it was my last dose till i could get more. My high and nod seemed to l
ast longer. How long I am not sure, because I ended up nodding off in the car (i
was not driving) But I drank a full bottle of juice about 25 minutes before I d
osed (approx. 1/2 gram of heroin IV'd) I will definitely try it again and make i
t a habit
Hey guys, I've been taking hydrocodone for years and I'm looking for way
s to get the most of it. I've tried white grapefruit juice in the past but hones
tly have never noticed much from it. I take around 30 mg of hydro per dose, and
I was thinking of trying Tagament since I've never given it a shot.
How much Tagament to take and when? Do I also need to take an antacid at
some point before the hydro? Thanks for any advice.
Between 400 and 600mg, some people will say as much as 800. Take about a
n hour before your consumption of the hydrocodone, and tagamet (cimetidine) is a

n antacid.
The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0
Quote Originally Posted by hammermal View Post
I tried grapefruit juice for the first time the other day. Surprisingly
it worked, I was skeptical but enough people on this site said that it worked, s
o that was good enough for me. I tried a 100% grapefruit drink I got at the gas
station across the street from the hotel I was in. I saved it for my morning dos
e because it was my last dose till i could get more. My high and nod seemed to l
ast longer. How long I am not sure, because I ended up nodding off in the car (i
was not driving) But I drank a full bottle of juice about 25 minutes before I d
osed (approx. 1/2 gram of heroin IV'd) I will definitely try it again and make i
t a habit
1/2 a gram, shit, do you mean like 2 and a half balloons? Why the fuk wo
uld you have to potentiate 2 and a half balloons of hammer? Sorry but I gotta as
k buddy
Hari Om
edtree

Quote Originally Posted by edtree View Post

1/2 a gram, shit, do you mean like 2 and a half balloons? Why the fuk wo
uld you have to potentiate 2 and a half balloons of hammer? Sorry but I gotta as
k buddy
Hari Om
edtree
I know people who have been heroin addicts for years, and shooting 0.3g
barely gets them off. 0.5g shots aren't unheard of.
Keep in mind this is probably somewhat cut dope (30-50% purity at its wo
rst).

I used to shoot up to 2.5g a day of brown sugar during last weeks of my

9-month adventure with heroin. But it was 20% purity so 500mg of freebase (check
ed, it was from one wholesaler; most home dealers don't even have scales so thei
r "piece" (Polish: sztuka) supposed to be 0.25g then, now 0.2g, was measured rou
ghly). Large doses aren't rare (well, I don't know now as heroin price has jumpe
d 285% up recently and I used it from October '07 to May '08 when morphine was h
ardly accessible and it was before I obtained enough equipment to do complex res
earches).
Back to the topic:
In Poland:
I haven't found a medication with chlorpheniramine that wouldn't have pa
racetamol or phenylephrine and paracetamol. So it's useless. Cyclizine, doxylami
ne, and meclizine, orphenadrine, cyclobenzaprine aren't available in Poland. Dip
henhydramine is available in combination with paracetmamol or naphazoline - usel
ess. Carisoprodol isn't available. So you see this list applies probably only to
the U.S. as a whole and there are people from all over the world on the forums.
In Poland we have these:
1) Triprolidine (Status: OTC); mostly combined with pseudoephedrine but
the dose of pseudoephedrine is too low to cause peripheral stimulant side effect
s. I haven't noticed usage of this as a potentiator. I used it once for my runny

nose and found out it's also good to be combined with my methadone.
2) Promethazine (Status: Rp.); Dipherghan is widely used as a potentiato
r.
3) Dimenhydrinate (Status: OTC); too bad it's expensive per one 50mg pil
l.
4) Hydroxyzine (Status: Rp.); my subjective experiences: causes fucking
nightmares and opioid euphoria is gone. I know it's one of the most used but in
my opinion it's not a good one.
5) Baclofen (Status: Rp.)
6) Atropine and scopolamine (from leaves of Atropa belladonna, a dose of
200-250mg dried leaves is a safe dose and a very good potentiator)
Tramadol isn't a universal opioid potentiator. It's a partial agonist on
opioid receptors, e.g. it's contradicted to use this during methadone usage and
it's not because tramadol (or rather 3-desmethyltramadol) acts on opioid recept
ors. Just from my subjective experience - its euphoric (if it can be called euph
oric, for me it's a dirty hybrid) effects come from mixed action of NAT and SERT
blockade, and some weak action at mu opioid receptors. Noradrenaline and seroto
nin play a big role in analgesic actions of tramadol added to its some action at
mu (without NAT and SERT blockade it's be of less use than codeine, being what
it is, it can be comparable to codeine in some cases - it's Rp. here and the sma
llest dose is 50mg vs. OTC medication 15mg codeine/500mg paracetamol, when Codei
num Phosphoricum 20mg tablets were available here, a Rp.w. script was needed - R
p.w. scripts aka "pink scripts" are those on which morphine and any narcotic ana
lgesics are prescribed, tramadol is the only one available for Rp.
Also, dextromethorphan may reduce tolerance to opioids but it must be ta
ken hours before injection of morphine/heroin/..., this is not suitable for addi
cts who have to repeat their doses again and again. Normally, dextromethorphan h
as been proved to augment analgesic effects of morphine when combined with it af
ter surgery. But when it's taken at once with some opioid, euphoria from opioid
is attenuated.
If one wants to potentiate morphine or heroin, codeine extracted from OT
C tablets is a better choice. When my veins fell deep under, I used codeine i.m.
before morphine, levorphanol or hydromorphone (no, this magnificent drug levorp
hanol that's the real holy grail for me isn't available as a medication) to "bri
ng up" my veins so I see them better. Of course I had to reduce the dose of the
main opioid I injected i.v. in these circumstances.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
I know people who have been heroin addicts for years, and shooting 0.3g
barely gets them off. 0.5g shots aren't unheard of.
Keep in mind this is probably somewhat cut dope (30-50% purity at its wo
rst).
Ah Ok the stuff bin gettin here is pure straight up, the guy I've shot w
ith doesn't even bother filtering it. What I'm interested in is potentiating so
as not to, or slow down the tolerance levels.
Adder are you saying that a cwe of codeine will achieve this? At the mo
when cwe to extract the max usable amount of 450mg codeine I just can't use that
two days in a row as the 2nd dose has virtually no effect. Do you believe thoug
h that the 2nd dose will still have a potentiating effect when combined with IVi
ng?

Hari Om
edtree

Been trying the 400mg of Tagament an hour before hydrocodone dosage, and
whether placebo or not, it does seem to make it more effective.
Quote Originally Posted by edtree View Post
Ah Ok the stuff bin gettin here is pure straight up, the guy I've shot w
ith doesn't even bother filtering it. What I'm interested in is potentiating so
as not to, or slow down the tolerance levels.
Adder are you saying that a cwe of codeine will achieve this? At the mo
when cwe to extract the max usable amount of 450mg codeine I just can't use that
two days in a row as the 2nd dose has virtually no effect. Do you believe thoug
h that the 2nd dose will still have a potentiating effect when combined with IVi
ng?
Hari Om
edtree
Oh nice!
I wouldn't IV codeine for the record, there is more information about th
is in Advanced Drug Discussion.
^^ No no Just drink it about an hr after eating a grapefruit. Read the i
v codeine stuff thanks, nasty!
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin
I wouldn't IV codeine for the record, there is more information about th
is in Advanced Drug Discussion.
I wrote that I had injected codeine intramuscularly before injecting e.g
. morphine. Any opioid effects from codeine injected intravenously are overpower
ed by unpleasant and deadly effects from histamine release (tachycardia combined
with low BP, terrible headache, whole body allergy-like reactions with bumps ar
ound the place where i.v. was done and higher, e.g. if one shot codeine in his m
edian cubital vein, one would get bumps from there up to one's arm).
Adder are you saying that a cwe of codeine will achieve this? At the mo
when cwe to extract the max usable amount of 450mg codeine I just can't use that
two days in a row as the 2nd dose has virtually no effect. Do you believe thoug
h that the 2nd dose will still have a potentiating effect when combined with IVi
ng?
450mg of codeine was totally usable for me ~18 hours after an earlier in
jection and I could do it for weeks. The other thing is I didn't use it for its
opioid effects but for vasodilation resulting from histamine release so I didn't
really need it as a potentiator. Anyway, still I have never dirtied my clear op
ioid high with tramadol. As a side note: the only thing I got from tramadol inje
ction was a strange weak lightheaded feeling with a light improvement of mood. A
fter ~5 minutes it was gone, no opioid warmness. Once I went to a clinic to get
on a maintenance program, of course the physician told me he wouldn't put me on
a program. An idiot gave me a script for tramadol and told me to start at 100mg
x 4 / a day after I told him I had to take 120-160mg morphine / 40mg levorphanol
. Well, I went to the point when I took 1600mg of this shit and it didn't do a t
hing. Thanks to clonazepam I didn't get convulsions... I don't know why I persis
tently wanted to cure my withdrawal with tramadol as I had my methadone anyway a
nd quickly switched to it after 1600mg didn't work. It's funny I still have some
tramadol from that period and it makes me laugh when I see people dying to take

it. And I think "what's the fuss?".

It's useless as a potentiator for reasons given earlier. I know my subje
ctive opinion doesn't make any drug useless but articles showing it's only a par
tial agonist are definitely objective.
Useful link
http://dhost.info/cdun/documents/Opi...ine_Purdue.pdf

Quote Originally Posted by Harrisment View Post

Been trying the 400mg of Tagament an hour before hydrocodone dosage, and
whether placebo or not, it does seem to make it more effective.
I get 600mg an hour before my oxycodone dosage. Definitely makes a bette
r experience and extends the buzz for me. Cimetidine is fairly safe in higher th
an stated doses as far as I've read. I'm sure the effects maximization comes to
a halt at a certain dosage. I'm curious as to what that dose would be.

Quote Originally Posted by Been&Done View Post

Useful link
http://dhost.info/cdun/documents/Opi...ine_Purdue.pdf
It says I can't access the file.
(sorry for the double post!)
I'm getting the same and the title really gives me wonders.
EDIT: OK, that worked (stupid of me I didn't try it as it helps in numer
ous cases...). Well, it's not much of something concrete added to the topic so I
just edit out this post. I believe there was something like that posted before,
only it wasn't just Purdue drugs but all opioid-containg medications in the U.S
. So this might be useful.
Last edited by adder; 25-11-2010 at 23:04.
^^ right click, copy shortcut, paste.

One thing that no one ever seems to think about is your diet. If you are
on a very low carb high fat diet, and your body burns fat for energy instead of
carbs, which takes about a month to do. Fat, like coconut milk, will enhance an
y opiate. I am on a paleo diet, and pain pills work better now than they ever di
d before I changed my diet. And, coming off of them isn't nearly as bad. Carbona
ted alcohol gets you drunk faster, cream helps caffiene get in your system faste
r, and fats help opiate absorption. It's all biochemistry...

Yeah, it's all biochemistry or I'll put it out as neuroscience generally

for one purpose. People who take opioids because they relieve their psychologic
al pain won't spend time for any diets to start working and furthermore they won
't stick to any diets. It's psychology.

They prefer to take an opioid with some drug that will enhance its sedat
ive and depressant properties because this gives an instant effect. Some take dr
ugs that potentate opioid effects (go into synergy as they're also depressant/ad
d their effects which combine great with opioid receptors stimulations etc.) bec
ause their opioid is weak (e.g. codeine) and potentiators may allow them to expe
rience something nod-life, some will take potentiators because their tolerance i
s high and potentiating drug will make their regular dose work.
It's not the diet that is here to help because you have to wait long for
benefits. And why not? This doesn't apply only to people who are high all the t
ime and they shoot up all the time. I don't shoot up anything anymore, I take me
thadone and it's just my personality that opioids have helped me to get through
this life and it's my personality that I don't feel like going on some diet.
Also, why would I start putting more fat into myself? Is it healthy? Of
course you can go to a gym and it's alright but I prefer to have more hydrocarbo
ns with a diet that'll get rid of fat and get stronger and bigger muscles (yeah,
another thing junkies think about, I know).
Does anyone use diphenhydramine as a potentiator here? I tried to use di
menhydrinate (8-chlorotheophylline salt of diphenhydramine). I took ~54.4mg of d
iphenhydramine in this salt and it's much worse than 2.5mg of triprolidine. But
in terms of that Atropa belladonna sedating feeling all of those chemicals feel
different despite their anticholinergic action.
Oh, well, I see this could be effective at (at least) 200mg (=108.8mg) o
r I don't know else. The whole pack (5 x 50mg) might not even be enough. It's st
range, as I don't weigh much and this sedative may easily turn into a deliriant
at e.g. 400mg. I wonder if it would have the same "twilight sleep" effect as smo
ked Atropa belladonna or I would feel like shit...
Last edited by adder; 26-11-2010 at 04:53.
Quote Originally Posted by John_Burrows View Post
For the love of god, since the LAST opiate potnetiation thread was a zil
lion pages long, I respectfully suggest that people ONLY post legit questions an
d answers. Let's not bloat this thread with posts like "lol" and "thanks!"
Remember, future generations are going to have to read this entire threa
d looking for suggestions, let's make it easy for them and not fill this thread
with unnecessary posts.
Hear Hear Mr Burrows. Oh fuk, did I just faux pas
Hari Om
edtree
"I'm high and happy and needed a laugh, please sir I beg you don't kick
me in the arse"
Last edited by edtree; 19-05-2011 at 01:46.
My routine is as follows for oxycodone:
800mg cimetidine 1hr before dose
60mg dxm and 2 1/2 naproxen sodium pills (if I'm not drinking) 30min bef
ore dose.
2250mg of calcium carbonate (3 smoothie tums) to basify the stomach a li
ttle (if I'm eating it, skip if snorting) 10 min before dose.
Then dose.
Then snort half of a unisom (12.5mg of doxylamine succinate I think) whe
n I feel effects. Insufflation of unisom has a higher BA than oral, and I can fe

el the sedation kick in fast. It goes well with the opiate buzz for me. Lot's of
nod. Like now when I'm trying to type this haha.
If I'm not trying to scratch like a fiend I'll subsititute oral diphenhy
dramine (1 pill) for the unisom, but I prefer the unisom effects.
Last edited by RedBaron; 26-11-2010 at 21:57. Reason: more info
I found dimenhydrinate (8-chlorotheophylline salt of diphenhydramine) to
tally useless. I got totally confused instead of opioid potentiation. Alkylamine
s are far better than ethanolamines. And atropine with scopolamine beat them all
. I smoke 200-250mg of leaves of Atropa belladonna 2 hours after drinking methad
one syrup and taking clonazepam and I'm nodding off on a pretty low dose of meth
adone. Anyway I can't kill this damned anxiety when I'm a bit more sober and tha
t's killing me.

I haven't read about mixing Opiates with Rohypnol (Roofies) on here, and
since it was my favorite combo for a long time back in the days. Rohypnol first
and then H, since with the opposite, you don't really feel the Roofies!
I used Roofies either with booze or with Codeine for many years first be
fore doing H.
Later with mixing them, i used to get so out of it that i woke up 1 day
to find myself standing up in the hallway outside my apartment! and at around th
e same time in my life, a buddy of mine was very much into coke and was also usi
ng Roofies to come down, so i remember well (how ironic) the image of having a p
late in front of me with 3 different substances; H, Blow and Roofies
Depending on what time of the day it was or what we would be doing at th
e time, we'd mix with whatever ratio we would find suitable, an create some Supe
rDuperMultiColorfulMegaLine(s) and head to the moon
Good times...what's left from it in my memory...it's very much like a bi
g jigsaw puzzle, and some pieces are lost forever.
"What doesn't kill you, make you stronger"
Last edited by Been&Done; 28-11-2010 at 14:10.
So I am on MMT and am always trying new ways
un. Ya know double dose, benzos, herb, etc. So today
s me a handful of tums and tells me to chew them all
own metabolism of the methadone therefore leading to
o an hour later and WHAM! I was nodding hard. Anyone

to make my methadone more f

a friend at the clinic hand
up. He tells me they slow d
more being absorbed, etc. S
else tried tums before?

Yes, I've tried tums, no I am not on methadone.

You mean I eat calcium carbonate and and my methadone dose works better?
Jesus, and there isn't a single day I don't hold a piece of chalk in my hand...
I even used to eat chalk long time ago and that was justified by a doctor stati
ng that my organism supplements calcium in this way. And no, it isn't calcium su
lfate dihydrate.
Is it another myth or is it for real? And is it about calcium carbonate?
EDIT: Yeah, it's CaCO3 and MgCO3. Magnesium works good for constipation
BTW.

I know where this comes from... Methadone "likes" alkaline environment b

etter, it absorbs from stomach better when pH is higher. So basically, you could
even drink sodium dicarbonate water solution to get the same effect. It's not a
bout some magic in Tums (R), it's just chemistry. And both calcium carbonate and
magnesium carbonate have slightly alkaline reaction but to such an extent it do
esn't hurt your stomach so it's OTC.
So, it's not about methadone metabolism change. It's about methadone abs
orption rate which can really vary orally depending on pH in your stomach. I gue
ss they should start adding some weak antacid to syrups and tablets as 90% absor
ption rate is demanded, right? And it can drop to 50% or even less...
Last edited by adder; 01-12-2010 at 02:49.
Quote Originally Posted by adder View Post
You mean I eat calcium carbonate and and my methadone dose works better?
Jesus, and there isn't a single day I don't hold a piece of chalk in my hand...
I even used to eat chalk long time ago and that was justified by a doctor stati
ng that my organism supplements calcium in this way. And no, it isn't calcium su
lfate dihydrate.
Is it another myth or is it for real? And is it about calcium carbonate?
EDIT: Yeah, it's CaCO3 and MgCO3. Magnesium works good for constipation
BTW.
I know where this comes from... Methadone "likes" alkaline environment b
etter, it absorbs from stomach better when pH is higher. So basically, you could
even drink sodium dicarbonate water solution to get the same effect. It's not a
bout some magic in Tums (R), it's just chemistry. And both calcium carbonate and
magnesium carbonate have slightly alkaline reaction but to such an extent it do
esn't hurt your stomach so it's OTC.
So, it's not about methadone metabolism change. It's about methadone abs
orption rate which can really vary orally depending on pH in your stomach. I gue
ss they should start adding some weak antacid to syrups and tablets as 90% absor
ption rate is demanded, right? And it can drop to 50% or even less...
makes sense to me
Hang on though; is ph balance a personal thing ie something we have to m
easure as individuals?
and does taking substances regularly change ones natural ph balance?
I wonder if regularly taking some form of gut bacteria restorer/pro-biot
ic might help to maintain ones ph levels?
Hari Om
edtree
So taking tums with done... How many tums did you eat?
do you think this could be dangerous for some one such as myself, who do
esn't dose methadone everyday, but takes around 65mg when I do dose? I usually t
ake methadone once or twice a week. I usually get pretty high, but sometimes I w
ouldn't mind a bit more of a high...
I have found methadone gives me a lot of energy, but when I lay down and
really focus on it, I can get a tasty nod and some pretty heavy respiratory dep
ression...

I have a bunch of 5mg Cyclobenzaprine's just laying around. How well doe
s it work with opiates?
^Many people like to use cyclobenzaprine to potentiate opioids... as an
anticholinergic that is closely related to tricyclic antidepressants (which were
synthesized from first generation antihistamines such as diphenhydramine), they
'll have similar potentiation abilities/effects as tricyclics and sedating antih
istamines such as diphenhydramine (benadryl), doxylamine (unisom), hydroxyzine (
vistaril/atarax), etc.
Also, there has been LOTS of discussion inside and outside of the first
potentiation thread so check that out and do a search for more perspectives.

Tums makes sense a lot, just like any antacid medications based on calci
um carbonate. It comes from a strong base and a weak acid so its solution pH is
slightly alkaline. Sodium hydroxide pH > calcium hydroxide so sodium salts of we
ak acids would be even more effective. The question is would they be healthy for
your stomach or healthy at all. Sodium bicarbonate would change one's pH in sto
mach even better and it is an additive in food but alone in higher quantities it
may cause burns (and you can't titrate how much sodium bicarbonate would neutra
lize environment in your stomach).
It's not really potentiation-oriented then. Methadone BA can be as low a
s 40% orally. It's clear that BA will be lower if one takes methadone right afte
r eating a meal (environment in stomach is going to be more acidic). For the bes
t usage BA should be ~80%. Is it maximum? You won't push through stomach everyth
ing and pH in your stomach must be acidic for homeostasis but maybe you can push
a bit more if you make pH in your stomach just a little bit alkaline like pH=7.
05...
I guess most people don't get 80% and some say they start nodding after
taking calcium carbonate (it makes most of Tums). This could mean most people ta
ke methadone not long after their meal. I've taken calcium carbonate two days in
a row now before taking methadone and I didn't get any substantial difference,
I didn't think of that much and some slight change was noticed but it was more l
ike placebo; on the other hand I changed my methadone dose 10mg up a few days ag
o (placebo isn't bad, probably the best drug in the world under certain conditio
ns). I will try it with sodium bicarbonate tomorrow and maybe it'll make better
results.
Not sure if this is the right forum, given that this is still my 0_ post
on BL, but after looking around I've come up lots of good, albeit conflicting/c
onfused, advice: with or without research in support, some say grapefruit juice
potentiates methadone and other say no it doesn't.
Any takers? Many people seem to say that the vitamin C/citric acid in th
e grapefruit juice is what takes away from the drug's effect. So I thought, why
not take a bunch of calcium/magnesium/vitamin d supplement with the grapefruit j
uice, to maybe cross out the effects of the citric acid. Does it even work like
that - calcium supps neutralizing citric acid? I know taking too much calcium is
n't a bad thing, cause you can just drink some OJ and that does something along
those lines. Just not sure if it works the other way around...
I'm actually about to find out... Which is why I thought this might not
be the right place to post.

I took 25mg bendryl fifteen minutes ago (good all around potentiator (I
like sedation) in terms of other opiate use imho), just drank a bottle (450mL) o
f "Tropicana Ruby Red Grapefruit" juice (@30% juice...), along with 2 Grams calc
ium (as calcium carbonate and gluconate), 800mG magnesium (as magnesium oxide an
d gluconate), 75mG zinc and 1200 IU vitamin d (as cholecalciferol). (okay, not m
y genius; all this is in a supp I found AMAZING for sleep issues with benzo/z-dr
ug withdrawal I went through last summer, but that's a whole 'nother bag-o-worms
)
All of that, of course, along with my pretty little 10mg Methadone.
FYI, I've been using 0-8mg suboxone for about two months, and have been
off for about 72hrs, with a bit of H yesterday early PM.
Gonna think about all this while I sip (SLOWLY) a cup-o-kava tea.
Mods, edit at will. Friends, fellows, fiends, and finishers, I am your p
roverbial punching bag...

I'm sure that the zinc-magnesium combo would potentiate the noddy effect
s in a smooth, natural way.
And many people take calcium (like calcium carbonate in tums) to make th
e stomach less acidic before ingesting their opiate.
Personally, I only drink a little GFJ and instead focus on some cimetidi
ne, which targets a specific enzyme in the CYP450 series related to opiate metab
olism.
take
then
then
then

75 mg diphenhydramine
take a once a day vitamin
consume opiates
chief up and feel good

thanks all, I should have remembered about this thread Captain. Results
were mild but very enjoyable - I normally take 100mg of bendryl for the increase
d sedation, but I actually enjoyed the 25mg along with the vitamins. a bit less
intense, but just as relaxing. I'll really have to try the tagamet, cimetidine w
hatever acid reducer. Thanks again. Think I'll wait till Friday to repeat...
I use grapefruit juice and Phenibut and sometimes some scopolamine in tr
avel sickness pills (though I find too much of this can leave you feeling wierd)
.
Nicotine facilitates the euphoria and nod.
Don't like to use weed as it tends to over power the opiate high.

2 pills of ketoconazole will boost the fentanyl for sure(i can't say for
the other opiates cause i haven't tried)but BE CAREFUL MAN!!!ONLY FOR PEOPLE WI
TH VERY HIGH TOLERANCE!!!!You know that with fentanyl we don't play.Can someone
tell me with simetidine and fent?(how much simetidine to take and how much time

does it takes to work?)ketoconazole works slowly(about 3-7 h after you take,and

it works better with full stomach.But i say again BE CAREFUL!!And don't rush, it
will work for sure.First .
Lemon Juice inhibits CYP450 enzymes almost as well as Grapefruit -----------------------------------------------------------------------------(Sorry, no intent to double-post, but methinks this belongs here. PM me
to request I remove anything redundant with other posts.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18968322
Application to drug-food interactions of living cells as in vitro model
expressing cytochrome P450 activity: enzyme inhibition by lemon juice.
Baltes MR, Dubois JG, Hanocq M. Talanta. 2001 Jun 21;54(5):983-7.
Abstract
... Grapefruit juice is a well-known potent inhibitor of cytochrome P450
3A4 activity. With regard to the clinical relevance of grapefruit juice-drug in
teractions, an investigation of other common juices is undertaken with this in v
itro model.... It is demonstrated for the first time that lemon juice significan
tly inhibits by 60+/-3% the CYP3A4-mediated oxidation. Grapefruit juice inhibits
this activity by 82+/-4%. The mechanism of lemon juice inhibition is competitiv
e, whereas it is mixed for grapefruit juice. ...
Lemon juice -- better, lemonade -- works almost as well as grapefruit ju
ice at potentiating almost any opioid. (This does not apply to codeine, which wo
rks by being metabolized into morphine. Others?)
Lemon juice, like Grapefruit Juice, Cimetidine, and other substances, po
tentiates by inhibiting one or more of the CYP450 liver enzymes responsible for
metabolism of opioids.
Star Fruit, too, among others. Useful to check specific fruits, esp. cit
rus, since many have some degree of inhibition.
Here is a table showing selected CYP450 substrates, inhibitors (i.e., po
tentiators), and inducers. Broken down by specific enzyme (e.g., 3A4 & 2D6, thos
e most responsible for opioid metabolism; inhibiting them is good for opis):
http://www.psychresidentonline.com/C...teractions.htm
See also:
http://www.edhayes.com/CYP450-3.html
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0801/p391.html [TABLE 1, TABLE 2]

Hey guys...I know tagamet is supposed to be good but I dont have any of
that. I'm also out of atarax haha. But I've got benzos, muscle relaxers, and the
n most of the normal spine damager/back pain meds.
So what is a really good and not to difficult to obtain potentiator for
oxymorphone?
Milkshake from Mcdonalds, just try it, trust me, eat one 30 minutes befo
re, let me know
are you blowing or swallowing them? if swallowing, i heard having alcoho
l in your system helps BA. probably cant hurt with snorting either.
also, greasy/fatty foods 45min before hand, like mentioned above.

weed brings out the euphoria in an opiate more than anything else, for m
e at least.
valium feels great with opana. so does alcohol.
gotta be careful when mixing CNS depressants though, esp with opana.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
We have a mega thread for opiate potentiation, I'll merge this into that
thread.
Hi Captain H.How are you,i hope you're full..I'll try to be soon,i take
durogesic 100mg for 7 years,h once a week now,snorting and not too much,less tha
n 500 mg.I ate 12 fuckin tagamets and i didn't feel anything,nothing at fuckin a
ll!! Can you suggest me something,all the potentiations are for OC and hydro and
others,fent doesn't play..Anwer me if you know and if you're not boring,and if
you want add me to your friend's list and tell me to do the same.I'm new in BL a
nd i really like it,but if you don't want to add me,just tell me and there's no
problem.I hope that my english was not so bad..See you.

Quote Originally Posted by MartinFn View Post

and if you want add me to your friend's list and tell me to do the same.
I'm new in BL and i really like it,but if you don't want to add me,just tell me
and there's no problem
^aww.
how could anyone not "add" him after that?
Hi, i think that if you click your name at the top(and right)on your scr
een,it will show you!do it and i'm sure that you'll understand it
Wow,what the fuck did i understand..i thought that you didn't know how t
o add a friend...maybe the 12 worked..You mean that i'm kind,i have good manners
etc.?
Quote Originally Posted by MartinFn View Post
You mean that i'm kind,i have good manners etc.?
haha, yes, i meant that you asked very nicely.
I like to stimulate my morphine "ms-contin" with Ephedrine: Anywhere fro
m 25mg to 100mg ephedrine mix with 100mg - 200mg ms contin. I know most here lik
e to enhance the sedative and depressant properties, but i like to stimulate. He
lps me get through my work day or just be more productive. Sudafed will work as
well, just not as good.
Qui
I find Damiana really enhances the euphoria when on opiates. Had an infu
sion from 15g of Damiana dry leaf after I'd had my poppy tea, never felt so euph
oric!
Interesting, I looked it up and it's a natural thing and really cheap lo
oks like, 1-5$ LOL, I'll have to order some

I know this has already been mentioned, but I thought I'd add my two cen
ts from personal experience. I find 25 mg of Hydroxyzine nicely potentates anywh
ere from 40-60 mg of Oxycodone.
Quote Originally Posted by Rx_ View Post
I like my morphine ... [with] 25mg to 100mg ephedrine... [to] get throug
h my work day ... be more productive. [&] Sudafed...
Interesting, never heard that about opioids + the "-pheds". (Pero con la
cocaina, claro, si.)
I do use downers of various species for the same. Are the combination's
effects:
Simply "doing 2 drugs at once" (i.e., complimentary effects?), or
Do you believe they actually "potentiate" ?? , for example:
--if combined effects are greater than the sum of the 2 individually;
--qualitatively different effects are due to combo and can't be felt wit
h either alone;
--or duration of effects is extended?
I've always liked mixing ups (mild) with downs (as heavily as supply per
mits): Relaxation with motivation!
Figured effects were strictly complimentary, each mitigating the other's
negatives.
Never sought book learning about this topic specifically, though.
Anyone know if it's "true" potentiation? (IMO, it IS true funness -- & m
as importante, es bien tonic of getthrumyworkdayproductively.)

When I was researching opioids I read somewhere that CNS stimulants have
the potential to increase the potency of opioids

hyoscine hydrobromide is by far the best potentiator i have found.in the

uk it is available otc as travel sickness pills,and is very cheap and far super
ior to benzos etc.give it a bash(3/4 tablets)and i know you wont be dissapointed
.
Quote Originally Posted by the bold one View Post
hyoscine hydrobromide is by far the best potentiator i have found.in the
uk it is available otc as travel sickness pills,and is very cheap and far super
ior to benzos etc.give it a bash(3/4 tablets)and i know you wont be dissapointed
.
I find the Hyoscine Hydrobromide to be effective.
600 mg enhanses the nod, though 1200 mg leaves me feeling really strange
, and my eyesight blurs.
I have a question...Can potentiation be induced after ingesting the drug

to achieve a second high ?

Lets say the most intense part of the drug causes you a rush or nodding
and lasts for about 30 minutes so say if you took the potentiater soon as you be
gan to nod can the poetentiater induce a second round high just as you begin to
come down off the nod?

Hyoscine is scopolamine. But I don't think the doses enhancing the nod a
re like 600mg. 600mg of scopolamine would kill you (look up doses for atropine u
sed in asystole). Also, I guess you mean hyoscine hydrobromide but hyoscine buty
lbromide which is a different thing. Scopolamine used to be used with morphine t
o potentiate analgesic effects.
Scopolamine butylbromide is OTC here but I don't use it. I prefer to tak
e one 6mg dextrobrompheniramine / 120mg pseudoephedrine along with my methadone.
And if I'm not lazy, I make stocks of Atropa belladonna (Deadly nightshade) lea
ves. 200-250mg of leavesp smoked brings that twilight dream.
I usually use 1 or 2 Kwells tablets
nevermind...mistook kwells for another otc sedative
If you are interested in mixing OXY and PROMETH like me than this is the
best pill saving dosage combo:
1. 30mg OC......not OP (I hate the new time release bullshit with that j
elly)
2. 125 mg of Promethazine tablets (benadryl works too)
***note: take the promethazine or benadryl tablets 30 min before taking
the OC.. i would also recommend doing this on a light stomach to maximize the ef
fects..
bassically the promethazine is able to increase the power of the OC by a
lmost half more!!! it also helps you from not scratching yourself to the bone.
HAVE FUN YALL!
Guys please why wont anyone answer my question ?!
I will ask again....can you induce potentiation after you have already i
ngested the drug ?
I asked this earlier and when no one answered so I tried it out, I took
10mg Oxy and soon as I felt it kicking in about 45 mins later I drank a glass of
pure grapefruit juice and just when I thought the Oxy rush was over I then got
a second wave rush induced from the grapefruit juice, but it felt unpleasant.
Now I dont know if what I felt was from potentiating but I asumed it was
because I dont usually get a second rush after the first ones over. So can anyo
ne confirm if potentiating about an hour after ingesting can cause this? People
usually potentiate before they take the drug so I want to know if my method is v
alid? I have a very fast metobolism and it usually takes me around 15 - 30 minut
es for anything ingest to take effects so it wasnt long befor ethe grapefruit ju

ice kicked in whilst I was already feeling the effects of the oxy.

^^Altered, you can, but at the same time you can't....I went through a p
hase where I would take diphenhydramine (and hydroxyzine when I could get it) ab
out an hour or so after taking a Norco...or three. Anyway, the point of the anti
histamine wasn't really to potentiate the hydrocodone, I general pre-load with l
orazepam or cannabis for this purpose, but mostly to knock down the itching. I h
ave since changed my opiate cocktail formula many times over, but the point is t
he diphenhydramine brought some the opiate peak effects back. It was most likely
due to the increased sedation that first generation antihistamines are so damn
good at making combining with the other sedatives (usually lorazepam) in my syst
em.
It is certainly worth more research and testing out personally though!

Thanks for replying, you said pharased that better than I did when you s
aid it "brought some the opiate peak effects back" that exactly what I was askin
g, whether potentiating afterwards can bring back some of the opiates peak effec
ts.

Not a problem, I still think it is hit-or-miss though, and I've noticed

that even though the nice warmth comes back it is short-lived.
The best way to get it back is to take more opiates

Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post

The best way to get it back is to take more opiates
Yea on that note I have another question... Does potentiating give you t
he exact same effect as just taking a higher dose of the drug ? Say you had aces
s to unlimited supply of Oxycodone then I assume one would not need to ever pote
ntiate ? Unless of course potentiating gave you an additional different sensatio
n or high then just taking a higher dose of the drug or made it last longer?
True potentiation would cause it to feel exactly like you took more of t
he same drug, playing with a Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitor (such as cimetidin
e)...shameless copied from Pink1966Floyd's post on the first page of this thread
! does that.
If I had access to an unlimited amount of oxycodone I would still probab
ly take benzos and/or antihistamines with it, mainly to enhance the nod while ge
tting rid of the itches. Oxycodone is one of the more itchy opiates, at least to
me.
Now if I had an unlimited supply of oxycodone and hydroxyzine, that woul
d be another story

Thanks again, you sure are knowledgeable. If there isn't any additional

enhancements from potentiating as opposed to taking more of the drug I dont thin
k I will bother with it.
I thought I read someone say potentiating makes the effects of the drug
last longer in duration which is not something you can achieve by taking a highe
r dose but its probably wrong.

Potentiate OPANA IR- anyone know a good potentiator??

It really depends on you personally, some people get a lot more out of t
aking the extra steps to potentiate whereas other people don't get much of anyth
ing. It has to do with tolerance as well as individual reaction to all the other
drugs you're taking to enhance the original drug you took...remember everybody
reacts differently to every drug. So you really just gotta experiment and find o
ut what works best for you. A lot of times I add other things just to make my su
pply last longer, if I could take more of the opiate in question I would just do
that. So it really depends on your supply situation as well.
This thread has pretty
ferent combinations. It sounds
ou're well aware (I'm sure) of
to combining opiates and other

much everything you too need to play with the dif

like opiates are your DOC (they're mine too :P) y
the cautions that need to be taken when it comes
strong depressants such as benzos and alcohol.

@ blazelate
Read through the second post (on the first page) of this thread, they're
all good potentiators

Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post

A lot of times I add other things just to make my supply last longer, if
I could take more of the opiate in question I would just do that.
Hi again,
Rather then making the "supply" last longer I was wondering whether pote
ntiation makes the "effects" last longer. Say the opiate peak lasts about 30 min
utes, can taking potentiators stretch that to say 1 hr? Because your inhibiting
liver enzymes can it actually cause the drug to be absorbed a lot slower thus ca
using longer duration and more enjoyable high as opposed to just taking a higher
dose of the drug ?
Last edited by Altered Perception; 30-12-2010 at 01:46.
I found that 600mg tagamet taken 30mins after 80mg insufflation of oxymo
rphone did not do anything I could feel, lol

Ropinirole, or any of the D2 agonists seem to potentiate opiates. I read

from some offhand accounts that it does have such an effect. I can attest to th
e fact that Requip indeed makes a difference for me at least. If anything, it he
lps with the stiff legs caused by opiates. And as far as OM potentiation and req
uip... Thats an area you may want to avoid as the combo is extremely pleasant. J
azzed up OM can go both ways.

Oh you talkin bout exorcist type dessert-launching? It's like I swallowe

d an inter-continental-ballistic missile, lol
Quote Originally Posted by Altered Perception View Post
Rather then making the "supply" last longer I was wondering whether pote
ntiation makes the "effects" last longer.
Yes that's exactly what I do with them (grafefruit, cimetidine to extend
my methadone). See, e.g.:
"Background and objectives: Cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4 is the main CYP is
ozyme involved in methadone metabolism. We investigated the influence of grapefr
uit juice, which contains inhibitors of intestinal CYP3A, on the steady-state ph
armacokinetics of methadone.
Methods: For 5 days, 8 patients undergoing methadone maintenance treatme
nt received 200 mL water or grapefruit juice 30 minutes before and again togethe
r with their daily dose of methadone. ...
Results: A decrease in the midazolam ratio was measured in all patients
after grapefruit juice (mean SD before grapefruit juice, 9.3 5.9; mean SD after
grapefruit juice, 3.9 1.2; P < .05). Grapefruit juice led to a mean 17% increase
in the area under the curve** extrapolated to 24 hours for both enantiomers of
methadone (range, 3% to 29% [P < .005]; range, -4% to 37% [P < .05]; and range,
1% to 32% [P < .01]; for R-, S-, and R,S-methadone, respectively). A similar inc
rease in peak level and decrease in apparent clearance were measured with grapef
ruit juice, whereas time to peak level, terminal half-life, and apparent volume
during the terminal phase of R-, S-, and R,S-methadone were not affected by grap
efruit juice. No symptom of overmedication was either detected by the clinical s
taff or reported by the patients.
Conclusions: Grapefruit juice administration is associated with a modest
increase in methadone bioavailability, which is not expected to endanger patien
ts...."
Benmebarek et al. 2004. "Effects of grapefruit juice on the pharmacokine
tics of the enantiomers of methadone." Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics 76,
55 63. http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v...t2004460a.html
I'll be honest, I was kinda disappointed to see it wasn't considered dan
gerously effective. haha no big deal here, right, but normal people would think
I'm sick I bet.
Btw wtf is the "midazolam ratio"? Not a typo (not mine anyway) for metha
done. Some measure developed in research on midazolam (if so: confusing, poor ch
oice)?
** EDIT: "Area under the curve," if I'm not mistaken, refers to the area
between the x-axis (here, representing time) and a line showing values for how
much drug remains in the body at any moment. Calculated by taking the integral.
But it has a simple everyday interpretation: In practical terms, it's close to "
having a total of 17% more drug in your blood, on average, over the entire cours
e of one day." The peak doesn't actually happen to be significantly higher, but
the line (average levels of drug) is somewhat higher throughout, especially afte
r absorption to peak levels (i.e., with GrapeFruit, some of the time there is mo
re than 17% extra drug compared to without GF, sometimes less).
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or provide a simpler translation.
Last edited by socio; 30-12-2010 at 07:07.

Btw wtf is the "midazolam ratio"? Not a typo (not mine anyway) for metha
done? Some measure developed in research on midazolam (if so: confusing, poor ch
oice)?
I was wondering the same thing...

I am planning to use 10-20mg of Loperamide to potentiate pod tea in addi

tion to my normal potentiators of chelated magnesium glycinate, naproxen (naprox
en only once a week, accounting for risk of ulcers), DXM (taken when naproxen is
nt).
The theory is that the Loper will occupy the opioid receptors in the int
estines so MORE of the pod tea opiates go to the brain (still accounting for mor
phine's low bioavailability orally). If the science is unsound in this please do
n't hesitate to reply.
I understand the risk of increased bad stuff like impacted colons and st
uff but I'm a pretty big guy and constipation has never been too much of an issu
e on or off opiates or opioids.
I've decided against white grapefruit juice and/or cimetidine because I
actually feel more warm when the codeine in poppy tea hits me -- I know there's
a limit to how much codeine can be psychoactive at a time.
Quote Originally Posted by Paulycodone View Post
When I was researching opioids I read somewhere that CNS stimulants have
the potential to increase the potency of opioids
Yes, I read that ephedrine in particular can potentiate morphine's analg
esia. I'm not sure whether that means it'll increase the high or just the pain r
elief.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8067229
I use Ephedrine as part of ECA stack at times and have combined it with
opiates before and found no potentiation personally.

Quote Originally Posted by Timland View Post

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8067229
Good find!
Quote Originally Posted by Timland View Post
I'm not sure whether that means it'll increase the high or just the pain
relief.
I've wondered about that too. I suspect that increasing analgesia doesn'
t automatically equal increasing euphoria. E.g. Naproxen/Aleve (which you also m
ention above) has been found to "potentiate" analgesia, but I believe it doesn't
add to euphoria. (But it seems like ephedrine won't decrease the euphoria, and
I like the effects of each alone, so it's worth it to me.)
Last edited by socio; 12-01-2011 at 19:03. Reason: sppelling

40mg hydromorphone (yes 40) and a dime of good heroin in one hit.....nee
d not say you must have a mjor tolorence
you get a great rush that seems to go on & on............

4mg hydromorphone and a 20 of coke weird ass speed ball cocke will over
power the dillies
cy3pa 30min. to 1 hr befor most opiats
xtc and some hydromrphone (smaller dose like 4-8mgs)
you potentiate with xtc? thats funny, because i took some jolly green gr
anules tonight after my dilaudid was wearing off and it sent me back into nod la
nd! in fact, i burnt my finger on my self-smoking cigarette
Last edited by dcraver877; 01-01-2011 at 00:23. Reason: spell

what are your thoughts on using pomegranate juice to inhibit CYP3A4 to r

educe the amount of codeine converted to norcodeine and codeine-6-glucuronide?
Quote Originally Posted by doIhavePotential View Post
what are your thoughts on using pomegranate juice to inhibit CYP3A4 to r
educe the amount of codeine converted to norcodeine and codeine-6-glucuronide?
Not being the major enzyme, and afaik the euphoria isn't due to codeine6-glucuronide, would there's be a significant reason to (attempt to) inhibit thi
s cytochrome? Not to mention it'll be another "thing" to consider re other compe
ting substrates.
Maybe someone with more pharmacological knowledge could help a little mo
re here though.
I got 11 5mg oxycodone without ace any hints on making the most out of t
hem (i also take 24mgs of subs a day) and know the tagament trick. any suggestio
ns?
Does grapefruit juice really potentiate opiates a noticable amount..or i
s it only benzos? lol sorry im retarded this afternoon...
Quote Originally Posted by Paulycodone View Post
Does grapefruit juice really potentiate opiates a noticable amount..or i
s it only benzos? lol sorry im retarded this afternoon...
Benzo's don't really potentiate the effects of opiates, they're just bot
h depressants so the "depressive effects" are compounded.
The theory goes on grapefruit juice is that it, and opiates are metaboli
zed by the same enzyme (CPY2D6) and so, to put it simply, the enzymes (in the gu
t) are busy metabolizing the grapefruit juice leaving the opiate unchanged to re
ach the brain (to produce the euphoria) and/or increase the duration of the high
.
To which degree I've found is very subjective.
Oh and afaik this only applies to codeine (or CYP2D6 substrates)
Last edited by tyrael; 05-01-2011 at 19:34.
Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
I got 11 5mg oxycodone without ace any hints on making the most out of t

hem (i also take 24mgs of subs a day) and know the tagament trick. any suggestio
ns?
From a few pages back (the first I think);
OXYCODONE
-Diphenhydramine
-Cimetadine (Tagamet) take one hour before your opiate

yea that works the best

Maybe somebody with suboxone experience could chime in, wouldn't the dos
e of subs Mongoose is on affect (effect?) the oxycodone? By that I mean, reduce
the effects.
Please excuse the flipping of "affect" and "effect", I still don't under
stand the difference!
^a drug has an effect (noun).
A drug affects a person (verb).
I knew Cane2theLeft would come back on and correct my English usage :P
Good to know, I'll have to write it down since I always seem to keep for
getting and I know it makes me look like an idiot lol
Quote Originally Posted by blazelate View Post
Potentiate OPANA IR- anyone know a good potentiator??
milkshake

First of all, I am aware that benzos are not potentiators of opiates, bu

t the right benzo can provide some pleasant synergy.... I agree that the typical
benzo's (in the US) like alprazolam, lorazepam, clonazepam, etc... do not, for
most people, enhance the effects of opiates.
But... I have had some suprisingly good results using temazepam (30+mg a
t least) (Restoril) with hydrocodone recently.
Anyone else ever notice this?
Also the obvious - potent antihistamines, certain stimulants, grapefruit
juice (depending on the opioid)
Edit: found my answer.
Going to try imetadine, i'm wondering if there's anything else to add th
at might be better then diphydramine, and if valerien would be worth it? I usual
ly take it without anything else to sleep.
Also imetadine, what does it do extend the high? I need to probably be s
lightly more sedated sense oxy is such a stimulating opiod.
Peace.

tums

^^tums are quite helpful, I'm starting to love atlien's one word replies

Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post

Maybe somebody with suboxone experience could chime in, wouldn't the dos
e of subs Mongoose is on affect (effect?) the oxycodone? By that I mean, reduce
the effects.
Please excuse the flipping of "affect" and "effect", I still don't under
stand the difference!
A person on 24mg per day, especially over a long period of time, should
theoretically feel nothing at all from even the entire 55 mg, likely even 24 hou
rs post the last dose of buprenorphine, because the bup will (theoretically) ful
ly block all other opiates at that point.
Can I just be straight up? I'm banging 100mg MS caps, filtered properly
of course, is anything I can add to 'potentiate' the duration or the high?
What if I drink a shitload of white grapefruit juice one hour prior to h
itting up?

I was gunna mix a little speed (methamphetamine) in with the shot. That'
s really nice but really bad for your heart. Also might add a little Phenazepam
I mean, why the f not? I can't get coke so this is my magic 3

Quote Originally Posted by Self-Aware View Post

Can I just be straight up? I'm banging 100mg MS caps, filtered properly
of course, is anything I can add to 'potentiate' the duration or the high?
What if I drink a shitload of white grapefruit juice one hour prior to h
itting up?
Cimetidine might be a good option, and/or some of the antihistamines lis
ted at the beginning of the thread.
Quote Originally Posted by Self-Aware View Post
Also might add a little Phenazepam I mean, why the f not?
Respiratory depression and death are a couple of good reasons why not
Quote Originally Posted by dokomo View Post
Cimetidine might be a good option, and/or some of the antihistamines lis
ted at the beginning of the thread.
Respiratory depression and death are a couple of good reasons why not
Touche
But I'll have a look in the beginning of the thread mate, cheers

I always read that you should take potentiators such as diphenhydramine,

dxm, and grapefruit juice/cimetadine up to an hour BEFORE the opiate....why is t
his the case, espeically in the case of additive potentiators?? I understand why
inhibiting the cyp enzymes BEFORE taking the opiate, but in the case of antihis
tamines and dxm, would it not be better to administer them at once so that they
effect you simultaneously???

Some antihistamines can take a little while to kick in, if you using a M
OA that has a fast onset (smoking, nasal, plugging, IV) then you want the antihi
stamine to probably be kicking or already working when you dose.
When I dose orally, I usually pop my dexclorpheniramine with the dose.
As for DXM, it's probably because if people are using it to keep toleran
ce at bay, they want the NMDA antagonism to be going before they put opioids in.
I have try ketoconazole,2x200 mg,taken ONLY with full stomach,best while
you're eating,it makes a couple of hours to work(or a litl bit longer),but it l
asts for 24 hours at least.I have try it only with fent.and i can say that 2 pil
ls increase it about 60%,with 3 it's 80-100%.I know you don't believe me,but it'
s real true.I don't know about other opiates.But just a thing.ONLY FOR PEOPLE WI
TH VERY GREAT TOLERANCE,DON'T PLAY WITH FENT,YOU DON'T WANNA START TURNING BLUE,
RIGHT?PLEASE,BE CAREFUL AND SAFE!If you take it please don't hurry,it will take
some time to work,but after you'll remember me..And don't forget the food,I usua
lly take it with some bread..PLEASE AGAIN,BE CAREFUL AND SAFE!!..
^^What he said, and even in the case of orally administered opiates, you
want to wait at least 10 minutes or so, just so whatever potentiators you're us
ing have at least started to kick in.
Firstly, it's always better to space out in time ingestion of any 2 drug
s in time because if it's not done, their bioavailability may drop (like they ha
ve to go through some channels in stomach to get into bloodstream, sometimes it'
s the same one).
But I don't think that taking potentiators before opioids is mandatory t
o feel strengthened effects. With drugs like morphine, heroin, hydromorphone etc
. it should be done before because these opioids don't work for too long. And it
really may take some time for some antihistamines to kick in (although there ar
e some that start working in 15-30 minutes).
I myself take dexbrompheniramine along with methadone and I always take
it AFTER methadone. If I do it, it's sometimes even hours and I still feel a pro
nounced effect.
I'd imagine methadone is a special case because of how-long acting it is
. The next question to the OP would be, what opiate are you talking about specif
ically?
There are a lot of long-acting opioids that would meet needs of a regula
r junkie, it's just that there aren't too many of them available commercially.
Methadone is the only one I've had the chance to use

My friend has never tried potentiating opiates w/ OTC products, but afte
r some reading decided to give it a try. He decided that cimetadine and white gr
apefruit would be a good combo, BUT, he cannot find cimetadine (A.K.A. Tagament
[sic?]) or WGJ anywhere, and he's looked a lot.
SO, (and I know its been covered elsewhere but only indirectly or incomp
letely) would red GFJ be sufficient, or even just have a slight effect?
And 2) would "omeprazole" or "ranitidine" be a decent replacement for ci
metadine?
Finally, if any of these products are taken about 2 hours after oral ing
estion of oxycodone, will there be any effect at all?
^ White grapefruit isn't actually white... it's a yellow fruit. I always
used that. As for cimetidine, I haven't used it because it seems to be hard to
find here in Australia. It's Schedule III, so is kept behind the counter and the
pharmacist must be involved in the sale.
Omeprazole and ranitidine won't substitute, as the effect you want from
cimetidine is it's inhibition of CYP3A4, which metabolizes many opioids into the
ir inactive metabolites.
What opioid are you using? And where do you live?
Quote Originally Posted by waldo777 View Post
My friend has never tried potentiating opiates w/ OTC products, but afte
r some reading decided to give it a try. He decided that cimetadine and white gr
apefruit would be a good combo, BUT, he cannot find cimetadine (A.K.A. Tagament
[sic?]) or WGJ anywhere, and he's looked a lot.
SO, (and I know its been covered elsewhere but only indirectly or incomp
letely) would red GFJ be sufficient, or even just have a slight effect?
And 2) would "omeprazole" or "ranitidine" be a decent replacement for ci
metadine?
Finally, if any of these products are taken about 2 hours after oral ing
estion of oxycodone, will there be any effect at all?
If you drink white GFJ, then you don't really need the cimetidine, assum
ing you drink the appropriate amount of GFJ. Red would probably work, but the wh
ite supposedly has a significantly greater concentration of the CYP450 inhibitor
s.
And you should take it 2 hours before ingestion if anything. At 2 hours
after, you won't notice it. The GFJ/cimetidine affect the digestion of the drug,
but the GFJ must be digested before it's effects will begin. So if you take it
after your opiate, then your opiate will break down before the GFJ does, and it'
s too late.
Hope this helps!
And I can find cimetidine/tagamet at walmart, target, large grocery stor
es and any pharmacy (walgreens, CVS, etc), if you are in the US.
Hmm... aren't the majority of opiates metabolized into stronger versions
of the drug?
i.e. Codeine turns into Morphine and another metabolite via your liver e
nzymes.
OxyCodone turns into Noroxycodone and Oxymorphone via these enzymes.
So wouldn't you want to take potentiators after the dose of opiates has

kicked in? That way, you get the stronger effects (in most cases) of the metabol
ite, but having the antihistamine kick in about 30 minutes after would let most
of the drug be metabolized then block the exit of the metabolite from your body
as well as synergyzing, no?
I think after gives stronger and longer effects. Opinions from doctors,
pharmacists or biochemists, etc...?

Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post

Methadone is the only one I've had the chance to use
Buprenorphine is another one that is used for analgesia and in addiction
. Levomethadyl acetate is used in addiction. Beside those there are levorphanol,
phenomorphan, levomethorphan, 14-hydroxy and 14-alkyloxy derivatives of them. L
evorphanol is actually one of my favorites generally, it has no rush no matter w
hat way taken but when it hits it's hours of nodding.
Yeah
real bummer
nly snorted,
ork if taken

friend lives on east coast of USA and can't find tagament ANYWHERE,
for him. He takes oxycodone (oraly for the most part) and heroin (o
plugged one time), from what I've read, the OTC potentiators will w
properly for those 2 compounds---please correct me if I'm wrong

---also, I've seen bits and pieces about Magnesium and fatty foods aidin
g the absorption of oxycodone specifically. Anyone wish to comment about that, o
r if it was already discussed and I overlooked it in this thread, direct me to t
he relevant page(s)?
Thanks

And here Tagamet is money thrown in because 30 tablets cost over 60 PLN
(worth ~$20 but here it's a lot). So I buy Rennie Antacidum, 24 tabs for 10 PLN,
calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. Anyway, I haven't noticed any major
difference. Actually it's no difference if I compare it with mixing my methadone
with 1 crushed retard tablet with 6mg of dexbrompheniramine. I've found it to b
e the best antihistamine with anticholinergic properties to boost opioids effect
s so far (not counting smoking 200-250mg of dried leaves of Atropa belladonna, e
.g. mixed with tobacco).
Quote Originally Posted by muvolution View Post
Hmm... aren't the majority of opiates metabolized into stronger versions
of the drug?
No, the former are pro-drugs, the latter being their active metabolites.
But this is not true for all opiates. Best example is Codeine which itself is n
ot active until metabolised in-vivo into it's most active metabolite morphine (a
mongst others).
you can get tagament at cvs and walgreens. I've seen it at every single
one around here.

Quote Originally Posted by tyrael View Post

No, the former are pro-drugs, the latter being their active metabolites.

But this is not true for all opiates. Best example is Codeine which itself is n
ot active until metabolised in-vivo into it's most active metabolite morphine (a
mongst others).
almost all opiates are "pro-drugs" in some sense of the word. Morphine t
o 3MAM, Oxymorphone to Noroxymorphone, Heroin to 6-MAM and Morphine, etc...
still the question lingers... before or after metabolism?
If you go before you are restricting the amount of the stronger metaboli
te, if you go after, you are letting the drug be metabolized but blocking the ex
it of the active metabolites my stuffing up your liver. NO?

Quote Originally Posted by muvolution

almost all opiates are "pro-drugs" in some sense of the word. Morphine t
o 3MAM, Oxymorphone to Noroxymorphone, Heroin to 6-MAM and Morphine, etc...
Alright but firstly morphine acts on opioid receptors with a good affini
ty itself so it's a good analgesic on its own while e.g. codeine while preservin
g some very little affinity is useless itself and needs metabolism to be effecti
ve as a medication.
And secondly I wouldn't put metabolism of morphine to morphine-3-glucuro
nide (I think you meant that and not 3-MAM) as a good outcome of morphine intake
, this compound is inactive as an opioid and it's a convulsant. If you meant 3-M
AM as a metabolite of heroin, it's also an example of a metabolite that brings l
ittle to nothing to overall feeling of drug intake.
Maybe calling e.g. codeine a prodrug is wrong? It definitely has an affi
nity to opioid receptors (Ki = 600nM but still) although it's very little. Prodr
ug is supposed to be an inactive compound that is metabolized to an active metab
olite.
you can get tagament at cvs and walgreens. I've seen it at every single
one around here.
It's certainly available OTC in the U.S. Other places aren't so lucky.
I find it interesting that codeine is OTC in Aus. but you have to go beh
ind the counter to get Tagamet.
Quote Originally Posted by adder View Post
Alright but firstly morphine acts on opioid receptors with a good affini
ty itself so it's a good analgesic on its own while e.g. codeine while preservin
g some very little affinity is useless itself and needs metabolism to be effecti
ve as a medication.
And secondly I wouldn't put metabolism of morphine to morphine-3-glucuro
nide (I think you meant that and not 3-MAM) as a good outcome of morphine intake
, this compound is inactive as an opioid and it's a convulsant. If you meant 3-M
AM as a metabolite of heroin, it's also an example of a metabolite that brings l
ittle to nothing to overall feeling of drug intake.
Maybe calling e.g. codeine a prodrug is wrong? It definitely has an affi
nity to opioid receptors (Ki = 600nM but still) although it's very little. Prodr
ug is supposed to be an inactive compound that is metabolized to an active metab
olite.
no, I would say codeine is a pro-drug, but what do you call a drug whos
metabolites are stronger than the drug itself?
as far as Heroin and 6-MAM, I'm pretty sure that the high amounts of 6 M

AM found in Mexican "Tar" could be responsible for the effects. I'm not an exper
ienced H user though, so I can't comment.
This is an interesting discussion. What would you say about the argument
of before vs. after in regards to potentiating or prolonging the opiate experie
nce.
It doesn't seem to me that you can do both:
Either you wait for some to be metabolized then dump the enzyme blockers
in or you do it in advance and the drug metabolizes slowly and lasts longer.
Quote Originally Posted by muvolition
no, I would say codeine is a pro-drug, but what do you call a drug whos
metabolites are stronger than the drug itself?
I simply don't do that. It's starting to be a phylosophical discussion a
nd I'm totally towards exact sciences. Let prodrugs be prodrugs, maybe nomenclat
ure isn't perfect but it's understandable. Codeine and heroin are prodrugs becau
se they wouldn't exert any action taken if they didn't undergo metabolism. Morph
ine can do good on its own although it has metabolites with high affinity for op
ioid receptors.
Quote Originally Posted by muvolition
What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to
potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.
There's no argument here for me. Most opioids have relatively short half
-life and their effects don't last for long. Drugs used for potentiating their e
ffects fall into a few groups I'm too lazy to name now (enzyme blockers, enzyme
activators, drugs getting in synergy etc.), anyway, they mostly work longer than
opioids abused. So it's clear for me I take 1st generation antihistamines befor
e some drug I want to take, and if it's orally, then earlier before ingestion th
an if it were intravenously.
Taking orally antihistamines with central anticholinergic action during
opioid action will only work if it's a long-lasting opioid like methadone, ester
s of methadols (actually only those with 6S,3S config that is a-(-) because the
rest either doesn't exert any activity or has shorter action, however 6R,3R-LAAM
has ED50 value over 5 times lower than 6S,3S-LAAM but it's short-acting, anyway
the overall analgesic effect may be more to metabolites as nor-LAAMs and dinorLAAMS are more active than parent compounds, w/e...), buprenorphine, 17,18-dideh
ydrobuprenorphine, levorphanol, levomethorphan... If one takes such a long-actin
g drug, one can dose some drug getting into synergy later. And surely the overal
l action is longer but definitely changed.
Although - like I many times wrote - I liked smoking A. belladonna dried
leaves after injecting morphine or some similar drug but with both drugs (morph
ine from vials i.v.'ed straight to bloodstream, smoke from leaves with atropine
and scopolamine to lungs then to blood) I omitted stomach. So by omitting stomac
h. So dosing something omitting stomach (swallow > stomach > slow and gradual ab
sorption through membrane in stomach > blood > nervous system <= oh my God...) g
ives some time advantage.
I know what I take (or rather what I have to take anyway) and if I want
to make it stronger I also know what to take. I've quit it, I'm on methadone for
which I pay quite a lot and it's not enough still... I went through my hell, I
think of shooting M, I know it'd help me a whole lot better because how much met
hadone I take is a ridiculously small amount compared to my needs. Both things c
ost, I'm losing my life either way so what's the damned difference? What should
I do looking at some kid's post "what should I take so my oxy works better?". La
ugh, cry, don't give a shit? I guess the last one is the right option.

I gotcha man, I'm on bupe now but occasionally use tramadol since it's t
he only opiate I can use anymore (Ha, and I used to slam 50mg of Oxymorph at a d
ay). So I like to get the most out of it, and I think everyone can understand th
at.
You can not give a shit, but your post shows you do, otherwise you would
n't care about helping some kid so he doesn't take too much APAP or screw up in
some other way.
I'm certainly not arguing or trying to get in a philosophical debate, bu
t via oral methods, I still ask:
What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to
potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.
It doesn't seem to me that you can do both:
Either you wait for some to be metabolized then dump the enzyme blockers
in or you do it in advance and the drug metabolizes slowly and lasts longer.
I once had a real shitty experience trying to potentiate. I only took 10
mgs Hydrocodone and 50mgs of Hydroxyzine and it really sucked bad. The Hydroxyzi
ne had me wired out of my gourd and didn't feel any good effects from the HydroC
. I also couldn't shit for about 5 days afterward.
Quote Originally Posted by Regenesis2
I once had a real shitty experience trying to potentiate. I only took 10
mgs Hydrocodone and 50mgs of Hydroxyzine and it really sucked bad. The Hydroxyzi
ne had me wired out of my gourd and didn't feel any good effects from the HydroC
. I also couldn't shit for about 5 days afterward.
Wrong ratio, 10mg of hydrocodone isn't much, it's actually in the range
of doses used for analgesia. So here 50mg hydroxyzine overpowers hydrocodone alt
hough I never liked hydroxyzine, it never worked for me under 100mg, and I would
always get strange nightmares after taking it (I dreamed of dreaming of waking
up and realizing I'm still dreaming and being unable to wake up).
Quote Originally Posted by muvolition
You can not give a shit, but your post shows you do, otherwise you would
n't care about helping some kid so he doesn't take too much APAP or screw up in
some other way.
Sure I do give advice here and there on the board, no one can stop peopl
e getting into addiction and it doesn't matter what the substance is. It's a str
uggle with the windmills. But I find myself in some way a bit disconnected from
the whole society of people who still use various opioids i.v. If I read all thr
eads here on how someone gets high off heroin/morphine/hydromorphone/whatever, i
t'd be even harder for me to stay just on methadone. I suffer from surges of des
ire to shoot up without it. Life is terribly painful for me and not because I'm
an addict but I am so I know what would help me best even if it would only for a
few hours. Sometimes it's that bad, I wake up in the middle of night all sweaty
after some nightmare where it all comes back to me when I'm asleep.
I feel for all those kids getting addicted to some real shit drugs that
have showed up lately and keep showing up. But hey, do they listen? "F*ck off, I
feel great when I take it and I won't stop" is a resultant of what you can hear
when you "preach". So I will always passively support any moves for banning sub
stances like BZP, TFMPP, and many more. It's something more than just people com
ing to this board and everyone's got his/her mind to decide what's good for them
. If nobody asks for help, I don't pry. I have my own problems to solve, and if
I don't solve them, I'm no use for both myself and other people.

Quote Originally Posted by muvolition

What would you say about the argument of before vs. after in regards to
potentiating or prolonging the opiate experience.
I've already replied to that. If I haven't, I probably don't understand
the question. I don't like to get into arguments, I prefer constructive discussi
ons. If one takes some drug potentiating his opioid, he/she surely knows where t
o look for an answer on these forums whether to take it before (and how long bef
ore) or after and why. This has been discussed so many times.
Gona try some Quinine this weekend via some canada dry tonic water. The
tonic, 30mg oral oxycodone, and some doxlamine should have me in nodsville i hop
e. : )
When my friend tried taking 400mg of "tagament" or cimetidine (sic?) To
potentiate his oxycodone, he found that the duration of the pain relief was the
same, and that the actual efficacy or strength of his meds was weakened....has a
nyone else had a similar experience?
waldo777,
I've never heard of this happening, I use Tagamet to boost oxycodone all
the time.
Quote Originally Posted by waldo777 View Post
When my friend tried taking 400mg of "tagament" or cimetidine (sic?) To
potentiate his oxycodone, he found that the duration of the pain relief was the
same, and that the actual efficacy or strength of his meds was weakened....has a
nyone else had a similar experience?
(FYI I used the search engine and trying to search through the mega thre
ad took hours w/ no clear answer, so if someone thinks this should be merged bec
ause its been answered already that's fine),
Thanks in advance
my guess would be that you are naturally a slow metabolizer so by taking
an enzyme blocker, you really kept the drug from turning into more active metab
olites and from hitting you all at once. I would cease use of potentiators til y
ou know the deal. I would also see a doctor for some blood work to check the fun
ction of your liver and kidneys.

I have 8 - 25mg Cyclizine tables right now. They have a racecar on one s
ide, Bonine on the other. I'll take two with a few Percocets. Cyclizine is the b
est. I found them at the drugstore on the bottom shelf, behind a pole.

Anyone have insights on GFJ and Kratom wasnt able to turn up anything co
ncrete upon search.

Has anyone seen/ heard/ tried anything about using a VERY low dose of an
antagonist before using to boost your synaptic and receptor responses?
Like, if I used .125mg of suboxone before doing a full-agonist, will tha

t boost it?
I definitely read it somewhere but I can't remember the source.
EDIT, Found it:
"Ultra-low-dose opioid antagonists
enhance opioid analgesia while
reducing tolerance, dependence
and addictive properties",
Recent Developments in Pain Research, 2005
Last edited by muvolution; 20-03-2011 at 01:44.
Anyone have insights on GFJ and Kratom wasnt able to turn up anything co
ncrete upon search.
I've looked it up before and remember that mitragynine undergoes initial
hydrolysis at an ester bond along with some other methylation none oxidation st
eps so I doubt CYP3A4 is much of a factor in prolonging the high.

One thing thats always worked for me is taking codeine on an

EMPTY STOMACH. so simple, so effective :-)
and if possible, dose when you get up in the morning before breakfast on
an extreme empty stomach
Thanks Alot. I am new to this appreciate the help.

Currently using oxy the past few days, i had promethazine once but ran o
ut, will go get some more, what type of grapefruit juice should i get? Is it gol
den or white? Anything else worth getting to improve the oxy high?
Thanks

Is it true that taking promethazine before using opiates will shorten/we

aken the high due to something with liver enzymes? But taking it after dosing th
e opiates is fine?
Quote Originally Posted by bignbrown View Post
Is it true that taking promethazine before using opiates will shorten/we
aken the high due to something with liver enzymes? But taking it after dosing th
e opiates is fine?
Put simply yes. It has been spoken about many times in previous threads
(checkout v1.0). Basic theory is the enzyme (CYP2D6) is used to metabolise both
promethazine and codeine, so it is thought that the enzymes are busy metabolisin
g the promethazine, leaving more of the codeine around.
Additionally, being a first-generation anti-histamine it can also have a
sedating affect which can help potentiate the codeine high. And since it is an
anti-histamine, it also helps with the itch which I love.

It's often used medicinally in OTC products.

Done and CWE once (~200mg of codeine - average for me) but with no prome
thazine, the next morning I had crazy bruises/scratch marks on my legs!! =/
I really can't give a simply answer can I? Le sigh. Click here to be han
d-held :P
Last edited by tyrael; 07-04-2011 at 03:19.
Hi im new to this and am taking 5mg Percs 5x a day for chornic pain and
i find the pills dont do much of anything for me anymore after a couple months a
nd im looking for a way to boost the pain killing properties because my doc wont
up my doseage, I read about Dimenhydrinate
Diphenhydramine and Cyclobenzaprine will boost them but im wondering how
/why they do? Also whats the doseage for these and when to take them? I have a s
cript for Cyclo aka flexerix for muscle spasms and have taken them around the sa
me time before but they didnt seem to do anything. Any help would be great, than
ks!
I am experimenting tizanidin as a booster for oxycodone. Took two 2mg pi
lls of it hour ago and two crushed 20mg oxycodone half hour ago. The rush feels
more energetic and relaxed when comparing into a alprazolam, Atarax and diazepam
combo I have been using before. Waiting to see how nodding phase compares into
it.
Wow. The nodding phase seems truly intensive but I can clearly hear thin
gs and see some geometric visuals. Feels as intensively as taking 80-100mg of ox
ycodone.
Nodding phase still continues but I can end it by starting doing somethi
ng. This is great.
Edit: In general tizanidin seems to boost oxycodone well. It gave really
relaxed effects in the end and made me get sleep easily. I dont know if it is b
ecause I had no tolerance into it when comparing the other combo but I definatel
y will continue using it for recreational purposes during weekends and keep the
tolerance low.
Last edited by MrRoot; 18-04-2011 at 12:23. Reason: live report
Quote Originally Posted by JayArEm View Post
Hi im new to this and am taking 5mg Percs 5x a day for chornic pain and
i find the pills dont do much of anything for me anymore after a couple months a
nd im looking for a way to boost the pain killing properties because my doc wont
up my doseage, I read about Dimenhydrinate
Diphenhydramine and Cyclobenzaprine will boost them but im wondering how
/why they do? Also whats the doseage for these and when to take them? I have a s
cript for Cyclo aka flexerix for muscle spasms and have taken them around the sa
me time before but they didnt seem to do anything. Any help would be great, than
ks!
20mg of Cyclobenzaprine potentiates Opiates somewhat well for me. It mak
es it easier to nod with smaller amounts of Oxy than normal and makes the euphoi
ra a little bit better. I would start with 10mg of the Cyclo though to see if th
at works, as too much can make you pass the f out.

Diphenhydramine works better than Cyclobenzaprine in MY opinion. I use 5

0-75mg of it about 30 mins before I take Oxy or Hydro and it potentaites the eff
ects all around in general (euphoria, anagelsia, everything imo). Start with 2550mg of the Diphenhydramine, and it's probably not wise to use more than 75mg.

i know ambien and soma and xanax work great but i've read that milk this
tle works very well also, does anyone have any experience with milk thistle, if
so IM me to let me know how it worked cause i just bought some and i'll get back
to anyone else who wants to know how it worked on me.

Quote Originally Posted by JayArEm

Hi im new to this and am taking 5mg Percs 5x a day for chornic pain and
i find the pills dont do much of anything for me anymore after a couple months a
nd im looking for a way to boost the pain killing properties because my doc wont
up my doseage, I read about Dimenhydrinate
Diphenhydramine and Cyclobenzaprine will boost them but im wondering how
/why they do? Also whats the doseage for these and when to take them? I have a s
cript for Cyclo aka flexerix for muscle spasms and have taken them around the sa
me time before but they didnt seem to do anything. Any help would be great, than
ks!
Quote Originally Posted by OxyChem
20mg of Cyclobenzaprine potentiates Opiates somewhat well for me. It mak
es it easier to nod with smaller amounts of Oxy than normal and makes the euphoi
ra a little bit better. I would start with 10mg of the Cyclo though to see if th
at works, as too much can make you pass the f out.
Diphenhydramine works better than Cyclobenzaprine in MY opinion. I use 5
0-75mg of it about 30 mins before I take Oxy or Hydro and it potentaites the eff
ects all around in general (euphoria, anagelsia, everything imo). Start with 2550mg of the Diphenhydramine, and it's probably not wise to use more than 75mg.
I'd be checking the daily APAP consumption here as well.
Diphenhydramine
start though it can be
zymes which process the
Awesome CYP-450

(dimenhydrinate is effectively the same thing) is a good

pretty hypnotic. Check out this thread for inhibiting en
drug.
Chart!

Milk thistle (or Silybum) has been known to show heptoprotective propert
ies. As far as potentiating opiates I've never heard of, no.
Maybe if you're method of ingestion for your codeine is by ingesting cop
ious of Ibuprofen+/APAP then yes it can help! Please safe!
I'm condemned to take 5mg instead of my 10mg/day for the next week till
my refill.
Will WGFJ help potentiate 5mg to the extent of 10mg? Thanks for any resp
onse.

Woah, just blew my orgasmic mind :S. Having thought I had quite a tolera
nce to opiates I brewed a pretty strong tea with slightly acidic water and jim b
ean plus some GFJ and orange ( Also take 600mg+ pregabalin daily) . Drank it in
a really warm bath and phwoar doing "stuff" whilst having extremely sexual/fanta
sy thought trains at the same time as using my own body was absolutely amazing.
Sorry for it being a pretty odd post but still, intense!

would taking a small dose of adderall help potentiation because it's a d

opamine and norpepinephrine reuptake inhibitor?
Last edited by drzoidbergphd; 26-04-2011 at 14:01.
Bought 2 litres of WGFJ. Will tell you the results (both with methadone
and benzos). Stay tuned.

I posted this in BDD but didn't get the responses I was looking for, hop
ing someone here can help me out.
I have a 20mg oxycodone pill I plan on taking later today and would like
to make the most of it. I have taken oxycodone before with the addition of 50mg
dph before taking the oxycodone. I've been reading up on opiate potentiating an
d many people suggest white grapefruit juice. Unfortunately most of the posts th
at I've read have been from before the new "unabusable" oxycodone formula. Now t
hat I have the new pills how will the white grapefruit juice interact with the o
xy? To my understanding the grapefruit juice slows down the liver from metaboliz
ing the oxy, but since the oxy is now time released (Or so I'm told), could drin
king a few cups of grapefruit juice have any potentially adverse effects with th
e new oxycodone pills?
^ I found this on wikipedia:
Slow release versions of drugs are affected by grapefruit, causing the e
ntire dosage to be metabolized at once.
Link
^Indeed. Alcohol has this effect on some extended-release formulations o
f drugs. It's called dose-dumping and can actually be quite dangerous.
lyirca, tagamet, klonopin, diphenhydramine, and weed are my favorites
Will Kratom Boost my methdone>@ 135mg daily..

If you bought everything on the list, you'd be paying more for that than
you would for your dope! How signifigant would the difference be between going
in raw dog with the dope to taking a trivial amount of a good number of the pote
ntiators?
I've tried a lot of them on their own (GF juice, benadryl, Alcohol, Cann

abis), but ive never combined a lot of them although I am willing to give it a g
o. Anybody out there do the whole list with a dose?
If so, was it more intense? Longer lasting? Both? Just a little curious.
...
lyrica = win

Will Kratom Boost my methdone>@ 135mg daily..

Kratom may produce some adregenic and possible non mu opioid effects on
top of methadone but I would think that amount of methadone will blockade the mu
receptors. Kratom also has some antagonists in it which could result in diminis
hed effects. You would probably feel the same and any differences would likely n
ot be a greater methadone high.

^Agreed. Kratom's effects are quite variable from person to person and f
rom strain to strain. At that methadone dose, I don't see any positive effects c
oming from mixing the two.
Quote Originally Posted by waldo777 View Post
Yeah friend lives on east coast of USA and can't find tagament ANYWHERE,
real bummer for him. He takes oxycodone (oraly for the most part) and heroin (o
nly snorted, plugged one time), from what I've read, the OTC potentiators will w
ork if taken properly for those 2 compounds---please correct me if I'm wrong
---also, I've seen bits and pieces about Magnesium and fatty foods aidin
g the absorption of oxycodone specifically. Anyone wish to comment about that, o
r if it was already discussed and I overlooked it in this thread, direct me to t
he relevant page(s)?
Thanks
Dude,go to walmart,they have it.trust me.I lived all along the east coas
t
What are some
other words to make a
ss about side effects
high feel 'warmer' or

ways
30mg
such
more

to make opiates more potent for recreational use? In

oxy dose feel like a higher dose. I could not care le
as itching. What other medicines help make an opiate
euphoric?

Thanks. Do antihistamines actually increase the high or just get rid of

the itching? Or both?
both. godsend foreal

Personally I've never liked any potetiators (forgive spelling) except ma

ybe cannabis and benzos rarely. IMO most make you more drowsy but don't bringe a
true euphoric nod, infact I feel like many otc and unscheduled muscle relaxers

make the high dirty and bring me off my cloud so to speak. The only potentiators
I would consider now a days are ones that can boost bioavalability with little
to no side effects. Benzos and bud are just additional highs I never take em to
boost my opiates.
GF juice and that one med that boost morphines BA seem like ok choices t
o me, but all this is just my personal preference some my like jenkem with their
darvacet lol.

Quote Originally Posted by adder View Post

I found dimenhydrinate (8-chlorotheophylline salt of diphenhydramine) to
tally useless. I got totally confused instead of opioid potentiation. Alkylamine
s are far better than ethanolamines. And atropine with scopolamine beat them all
. I smoke 200-250mg of leaves of Atropa belladonna 2 hours after drinking methad
one syrup and taking clonazepam and I'm nodding off on a pretty low dose of meth
adone. Anyway I can't kill this damned anxiety when I'm a bit more sober and tha
t's killing me.
Alkili content can very widely on the plant so I think if on is to do th
is they should do a tester dose. Although I would think that could be a very dan
gerous potentator esp used on a regular basisI can see a lot of adverse affects
popping up over time.

Quote Originally Posted by JayArEm View Post

Hi im new to this and am taking 5mg Percs 5x a day for chornic pain and
i find the pills dont do much of anything for me anymore after a couple months a
nd im looking for a way to boost the pain killing properties because my doc wont
up my doseage, I read about Dimenhydrinate
Diphenhydramine and Cyclobenzaprine will boost them but im wondering how
/why they do? Also whats the doseage for these and when to take them? I have a s
cript for Cyclo aka flexerix for muscle spasms and have taken them around the sa
me time before but they didnt seem to do anything. Any help would be great, than
ks!
I don't think DHT or most choices listed will boost pain killing propert
ies, just sedation, GFJ might help, also have you considered breaking your dose
up to like 3x a day at higher doses? The drugs are a bit weaker when redosed, I
would imagine queit a bit so after 5 times
Edit: I didn't triple post btw another thread was merged in, before anyo
ne jumps my ass haha
Quote Originally Posted by whippa craka View Post
Thanks. Do antihistamines actually increase the high or just get rid of
the itching? Or both?
Would say they can increase the nod effect, you get more drowsy if you t
ake a few more pills than a normal dose. But it does not increase the actual hig
h.

Promethazine and cyclizine inhibit CYP2D6.

Source: Inhibitory effects of H1-antihistamines on CYP2D6- and CYP2C9-me
diated drug metabolic reactions in human liver microsomes. [PubMed]

i have a question...how much longer will tagamet make xanax, oxy, and kl
onopin last?? like instead of oxy having a 3-4hr half-life, would it have 4-6hr
halflife?

Dont know exactly how long it should extend it but after my last recreat
ional dose of oxy 60mg at once I find myself still nodding ten hours after takin
g the dose. It was my May Day cocktail without methylphenidate.
How effective is Hydroxyzine as an opiate potentiator? I have to conserv
e my pain pills and I want to know if 10 mg Hydrocodone and, say, 50 mg Hydroxyz
ine would set me good. I usually take 30+ mg's of Hydro to get fucked up.

No potentiator is going to come close to tripling the effects of an opio

id.

Well I'm just looking for a buzz or something. Like 15 to 20 mg's gives
me nice buzz, so would 10mg and then some Hydroxyzine give me that nice buzz?

Hydroxizine is a good potentiator, but do not expect it to double or tri

ple the effects of an opiate. It does not increase the opiate high per se, but t
he sedation and anti-histamine effects of hydroxyzine will synergize with the op
iate and increase the sedation.

There's an opioid potentiation mega thread - we can discuss using hydrox

yzine to potentate opiates in there.
Basically, you need to get a feel for hydroxyzine by itself. It's
highly sedating antihistamine compared to doxylamine, but it can help you
uzzed. How much so is probably not going to be easily equated to a higher
of opiates. It'll just feel like you're nodding more. It'll also relieve
f the opiate's induced itchiness via histamine release.

not a
feel b
dosage
some o

Quote Originally Posted by toastedpanda View Post

GF juice and that one med that boost morphines BA seem like ok choices t
o me, but all this is just my personal preference some my like jenkem with their
darvacet lol.
What is "that one med" which boosts morphines BA that you speak of?

Yeah I took 100 mg's of Hydoxyzine today and there was definately sedati
on. I'll probably try mixing 20 mg Hydrocodone with 25 or 50 mg Hydrox, or mix 3
0 mg Morphine with 50 mg or so of Hydrox. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Quote Originally Posted by OxyChem View Post

What is "that one med" which boosts morphines BA that you speak of?
Chitosan. But it's not a drug though. When snorted along with morphine,
it raises morphine's BA.
Quote Originally Posted by StonedNative View Post
Yeah I took 100 mg's of Hydoxyzine today and there was definately sedati
on. I'll probably try mixing 20 mg Hydrocodone with 25 or 50 mg Hydrox, or mix 3
0 mg Morphine with 50 mg or so of Hydrox. I'll let you all know how it goes.
I just get sleepy off of it. It can increase the nod, and also encourage
sedation, especially if you are trying to avoid tolerance to the CNS depression
.
Overall though, without much of a tolerance to opiates, hydroxyzine just
encourages me to go to sleep.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
Chitosan. But it's not a drug though. When snorted along with morphine,
it raises morphine's BA.
Any idea about how much it will increase BA?

Quote Originally Posted by StonedNative View Post

How effective is Hydroxyzine as an opiate potentiator? I have to conserv
e my pain pills and I want to know if 10 mg Hydrocodone and, say, 50 mg Hydroxyz
ine would set me good. I usually take 30+ mg's of Hydro to get fucked up.
it makes you nod pretty damn hard and its a very floaty spacey feeling.
not as euphoric and heavy as opiates but still a good potentiator.
ive never taken it with hydro, just dope
in less than a week i get my oxys so i'ma try out milk thistle i've hear
d good rumors now to put them to the test
hydroxizine is and amazing potentiator when i was using h i COULD use a
quater less and feel the same effects... but i didnt lol
so which antihistamines (i have promethazine on hand) actually will have
an effect on DHC in the enzymes and shit in the liver? I know with normal codei
ne i think DPH if taken at the peak can lenghthen the effects, will promethazine
do the same.
If not i might just go get a beer lol.
Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post
Promethazine and cyclizine inhibit CYP2D6.
Source: Inhibitory effects of H1-antihistamines on CYP2D6- and CYP2C9-me
diated drug metabolic reactions in human liver microsomes. [PubMed]
Damn, bet me to it.

Anyone getting sick of the Do insert potentiator here actually work?

There's 8 pages and 2 threads worth. HAVE A READ! And listen to what Cap
tain.Heroin and NeighborhoodThreat! -_- *le sigh*
Short answer YES* *different once work for different people for differen
t reasons.
Long answer, 1st generation anti-histermines ("the nod"), P450 enzyme (C
YP2D6), other potentiator who works on the MOA, other potentiator who work on si
milar MOA (read: GABA). So I guess the long answer is still; READ, READ, READ.
Last edited by tyrael; 10-05-2011 at 06:20.

This will not be for everyone and is not true potentiating as it is not
elevating the opiate in the blood. I have been on oxycodone for about 6 years. I
have HIV and the earlier drugs I took messed up my nervous system. It was only
when I had a severe thumb infection that I found relief with oxycodone. I notice
d early on that I seem to get a bit of an "up" on it. I researched oxy and found
that it was probably the chemical thebaine that is in it. It is apparently a st
imulant. So what I have done is take some coffee with my pills, as well as those
headache relief tabs from Walmart (green bottle), they contain acetaminaphen, a
spirin and caffeine. Later, I added chocolate and a cigarette. The stimulants se
em to really play well off each other for me. I hope that helps some of you who
are looking to get the most out of your medication.
Thebaine is not in oxycodone. Oxycodone is made by starting with thebain
e. It's one of the 3 main naturally occuring opiates in poppies. Thebaine doesn'
t get you high though, but it will make you sick or kill you. Here's a quick wik
i article on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thebaine
The chocolate and cigarettes increase the level of dopamine in the brain
.
Quote Originally Posted by jmgreener View Post
So what I have done is take some coffee with my pills, as well as those
headache relief tabs from Walmart (green bottle), they contain acetaminaphen, as
pirin and caffeine. Later, I added chocolate and a cigarette.
Excedrin is the name.
Best to take valium before or after the opiate has kicked in?
Quote Originally Posted by bignbrown View Post
Best to take valium before or after the opiate has kicked in?
i dose my benzos with oxycodone, valium works the best because it has mu
scle relaxant properties and peaks in 1-2hours just like oxy
Quote Originally Posted by DexterMeth View Post
Thebaine is not in oxycodone. Oxycodone is made by starting with thebain
e. It's one of the 3 main naturally occuring opiates in poppies. Thebaine doesn'
t get you high though, but it will make you sick or kill you. Here's a quick wik
i article on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thebaine

The chocolate and cigarettes increase the level of dopamine in the brain
.

Excedrin is the name.

This is a good point, just because something is used to make (synth) dru
gs does not mean that it is part of the end product. Thebaine is not "in" oxycod
one and it certainly is not oxycodone. The Wikipedia article that DexterMeth lin
ked explains this as well. Thebaine is used to make various opiates besides oxyc
odone, this includes oxymorphone, buprenorphine, nalbuphine and others. Do not c
onsume thebaine, it can cause convulsions and will be anything but pleasant and/
or recreational.
Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post
just because something is used to make (synth) drugs does not mean that
it is part of the end product.
Oh but everytime I have an XTC I'm eating bleach, nail polish remover an
d drain cleaner aren't I?

In all seriousness though, this little bit of (I would have thought basi
c but ) knowledge needs to be more wide spread.
Along the topic of "little bits of knowledge", I realise it's done for u
se of ease but just reiterating a convo Mr Blonde and I had a while back - someo
ne really needs to write, I guess just for informational purposes on the top of
a thread, the difference between a "potentiator" and an actual drug which potent
iates another. Eerks me a little sometimes.

Oh well I read mixed reviews on using promethazine and vicodin...

I have a promethazine (25mg) and 2 vicodins/hydrocone (10/300).
Does it actually potentate it or not? and if so how should I take it? Li
ke pop the prom 30 minute then pop the vics? Or what? and does breaking the pill
s in half make them last shorter or just the same amount of time?

Quote Originally Posted by Scott. View Post

Oh well I read mixed reviews on using promethazine and vicodin...
I have a promethazine (25mg) and 2 vicodins/hydrocone (10/300).
Does it actually potentate it or not? and if so how should I take it? Li
ke pop the prom 30 minute then pop the vics? Or what? and does breaking the pill
s in half make them last shorter or just the same amount of time?
yes take the promethazine 30mins earlier and then pop both hydros. you d
ont have to break them and for me if i break pills they feel really weird going
down my throat. promethazine with opiates is tha shit!! except it isn't OTC in t
he US so i stick with DPH
Quote Originally Posted by Scott. View Post

Oh well I read mixed reviews on using promethazine and vicodin...

I have a promethazine (25mg) and 2 vicodins/hydrocone (10/300).
Does it actually potentate it or not? and if so how should I take it? Li
ke pop the prom 30 minute then pop the vics? Or what? and does breaking the pill
s in half make them last shorter or just the same amount of time?
Anything metabolized by the (cytochrome P450) enzyme CYP2D6 in theory ma
y be potentiated by promethazine. So yes Vicodin (hydrocodone) will be.
Quote Originally Posted by laCster View Post
except it isn't OTC in the US so i stick with DPH
OTC here in Aus baby! Yaya!
Add vitamin c 30min - 1hour before administering said opioid, if on an e
mpty stomach that is, basically let the vitamin c get into your system, personal
ly i mega dose vitamin c, when i feel the energy lift from it, this is the premi
um time to dose your opioids..... The enzyme that breaks down vitamin c is also
the one that breaks down opiates..... It will increase your 'high' and/or pain r
elief in longevity as well as intensity... Works better with non-codeine based o
piates i.m.o., idk why but it does
OK might sound like a stupid question but what if I drink grapefruit jui
ce (ruby red--and 2 tums) and take a promethazine and like 45 minutes later pop
the norcos, will that potentate it even more?
I also hate grapefruit juice so I'm wondering after I chug that down if
I could wash it down with a cola or pepsi (need more can of soda in the morning
before work).
Sorry if I sound dumb haha just wanna get the best bang for my bucks.

The enzyme that breaks down vitamin c is also the one that breaks down o
piates..... It will increase your 'high' and/or pain relief in longevity as well
as intensity... Works better with non-codeine based opiates i.m.o., idk why but
it does
Different opioids are broken down different ways by your body. Oxycodone
by CYP3A/CYP2d6, morphine by glucuronidation, and codeine needs to be turned in
to morphine by CYP2D6 or at the very least into c-6-g by a phase II mechanism as
well.
OK might sound like a stupid question but what if I drink grapefruit jui
ce (ruby red--and 2 tums) and take a promethazine and like 45 minutes later pop
the norcos, will that potentate it even more?
Grapefruit juice inhibits cyp3a4, I don't know if tums effect absorption
much, and promethazine will sedate you and prevent any itching.

Quote Originally Posted by treesmin View Post

hydroxizine is and amazing potentiator when i was using h i COULD use a
quater less and feel the same effects... but i didnt lol
I'm Rx'd 75mg of Hydroxyzine a day. It used to kick ass when I could tak
e it in conjuction with the Oxymorphone I was sniffing or the Dope I shot.
A friend of mine had IV'd Hydroxyzine with his shot of Dope and he seeme

d to be completely nodding harder than I've seen him he said he was shitfaced.
Sadly now I take my Hydroxyzine simply as an antihistamine to help with
anxiety and to deter me from picking at my skin and such and gettin rashes. I do
n't really think it has much of an effect in potentiating suboxone.
Anyone know if hydroxyzine potentiates Tramadol? I'm having 4 Wisdom tee
th pulled and I'm on probation and suboxone so even tho the doc is gonna offer m
e narcotics to deal with the pain im going to request he gives me tramadol becau
se it is the only thing that will work with my subs, otherwise I'll be turning d
own the painkillers fully which I know in my heart is the right thing to do. (My
brain on the other hand has no regard for any morality and is rly gonna be mad
at me for this X_X)
Sorry if this has been asked already but when using potentiators do you
need to lower your opiate dosage especially if you don't have a high tolerance.
(Of course not including obvious contraindiction's like alcohol.) But for exampl
e if I drink some grape fruit for before dosing do I need to be more careful? Bo
th of these could lead to greater highs than you want and overdose.

Sorry if this has been asked already but when using potentiators do you
need to lower your opiate dosage especially if you don't have a high tolerance.
(Of course not including obvious contraindiction's like alcohol.) But for exampl
e if I drink some grape fruit for before dosing do I need to be more careful?
Yes. Enzyme inhibitors or attempting to increase total absorption will l
et more drug get into your system as if you actually took a higher dose. Combini
ng opioids with other sedating drugs will increase the total sedation.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
Chitosan. But it's not a drug though. When snorted along with morphine,
it raises morphine's BA.
Any idea about how much it will increase BA?
It's in the Bioavailability megathread (which can be found in the OD Dir
ectory - which can be accessed via my signature or the top of the OD Forum). I k
now it's definitely over 50% but don't recall what the source officially said.
im trying lyrica (pregabalin) tomorrow for the first time..ive heard its
a good opiate potentiator? i will be using 0xy 80mg OC's and maybe possibly som
e benzos (i have tolerance to both oxy + benzos)
my question is what would be a good starting dose for the Lyrica? should
i take the lyrica before or after the oxy and how much time before/after? shoul
d i even bother with any of the benzos?(temazepam,diazepam,clonazepam,estazolam)
i only have 4200mg lyrica (pregabalin)
Any help much appreciated,thanks
I havent taken any opiates but the Lyrica (2x75mg followed by another 2x
75mg an hour later) 300mg in total has definately had some effect on the 20mg va
lium and the 4mg clonazepam that i took at around 8am...its now 3.30pm
The joint i smoked at around 8am worked well also.
i just ingested another 2x75mg lyrica tabs (150mg) and am drinking a bee
r,im not sure whether to wait a while drink some beer or take some benzos or oxy
's? or even some mor e lyrica....although i may wait another 30 mins before eati

ng more lyrica.

are there any herbs that make opiates more potent? or just pills and jui
ce?
Quote Originally Posted by Rx ReflexZ View Post
are there any herbs that make opiates more potent? or just pills and jui
ce?
Yeah, marijuana. Besides that, just like the others said, hydroxyzine(vi
staril) works wonders for giving a good nod with opiates. But if I had benzos, I
would definetly potentiate with them.

im sure most of you already know this trick but if you eat red meat 45 m
inutes before you eat your pills, or 5 min before you iv, it increases the bioav
ailabilty ive never nodded off so hard and if you never tried it its like gettin
g that high your chasing from the first time you felt it. i PROMISE YOU this is
no white grapefruit placebo affect lol ...
^^^ Please provide some sort of (in any form) proof if you're going to s
uggest something (as ridiculous sounding) as that. Anything - wiki page, pubmed
abstract, peer-reviewed article, gee anything even like theory/guest/suggestion/
etc as to how something like eating red meat could possibly potentiate opiates.
:/
Sorry, maybe it's just me. But generally anecdotal evidence just doesn't
do it for me mate.
Last edited by tyrael; 12-06-2011 at 04:33.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
Chitosan. But it's not a drug though. When snorted along with morphine,
it raises morphine's BA.
Ah, this is interesting Captain.Heroin. A new one I haven't heard of
(granted I've only read your link but) In the wiki article it speaks abo
ut Chitosan working well as a coagulant. My question, is the dose required to in
crease morphine's BA large enough for this property to cause problems? What poss
ibly contraindications could you think of?
Cheers man.

Quote Originally Posted by tyrael View Post

^^^ Please provide some sort of (in any form) proof if you're going to s
uggest something (as ridiculous sounding) as that. Anything - wiki page, pubmed
abstract, peer-reviewed article, gee anything even like theory/guest/suggestion/
etc as to how something like eating red meat could possibly potentiate opiates.
:/
Sorry, maybe it's just me. But generally anecdotal evidence just doesn't
do it for me mate.

it has something to with the lipids helping the flow of opiates through
your blood stream. whats so ridiculous about that, try it what do you have to lo
se unless your a vegetarian. i have to admit i thought it was crazy when i my bo
y told me about it so one day i was barely even got high after doing a shot of s
ome heroin, i bought burger ate it waited 10 to 15 minutes and i was nodding off
..
Quote Originally Posted by pally pete View Post
im trying lyrica (pregabalin) tomorrow for the first time..ive heard its
a good opiate potentiator? i will be using 0xy 80mg OC's and maybe possibly som
e benzos (i have tolerance to both oxy + benzos)
my question is what would be a good starting dose for the Lyrica? should
i take the lyrica before or after the oxy and how much time before/after? shoul
d i even bother with any of the benzos?(temazepam,diazepam,clonazepam,estazolam)
i only have 4200mg lyrica (pregabalin)
Any help much appreciated,thanks
I havent taken any opiates but the Lyrica (2x75mg followed by another 2x
75mg an hour later) 300mg in total has definately had some effect on the 20mg va
lium and the 4mg clonazepam that i took at around 8am...its now 3.30pm
The joint i smoked at around 8am worked well also.
i just ingested another 2x75mg lyrica tabs (150mg) and am drinking a bee
r,im not sure whether to wait a while drink some beer or take some benzos or oxy
's? or even some mor e lyrica....although i may wait another 30 mins before eati
ng more lyrica.
lol. decisions. i used to make those too...

Quote Originally Posted by GRINCH3369 View Post

it has something to with the lipids helping the flow of opiates through
your blood stream.
Ok, cool. At least we've got somewhere to start . When I get the time I
may do a bit of research myself, or if someone here could explain/give an educat
ed guess of the possible chemical interactions which may cause this potentiation
?
Edit : Hmm, alright so after a quick 10min thought, morphine (for exampl
e) doesn't pass the BBB easily and has a low lipid-solubility. Not quite sure ho
w increasing lipid concentration could help in anyway. If you're talking about h
eroin (being more lipid soluble), by having the actyl- group it allows to pass t
he BBB easily. So again not quite sure how it could help.
Heroin (diactylmorphine) on the other hand is more lipid soluble (you co
uld say a correlation there) however it has a 0% (source wiki) protein-binding h
owever this is a far as I can tell it goes.
So I tried to think of similar function groups, classes, anything which
is common across all (most) opiates and how this could then relate to a lipid "p
otentiating" (using this term very generally so either increasing the efficiency
or duration or nod, etc) and I personally couldn't.
*having said all this. i, in no way, profess to think i'm an opiate expe

rt. just verbalising my thought process

Last edited by tyrael; 12-06-2011 at 22:10.

Pretty sure it has to do with absorption into blood stream not BBB perme
ability. It's a well studied phenomenon for oxycodone. I don't have time to read
and quote them but here...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...0403a/abstract
http://www.springerlink.com/content/qlfl93kl1yg57fhe/
Just type it into google scholar.

Quote Originally Posted by amapola View Post

Pretty sure it has to do with absorption into blood stream not BBB perme
ability. It's a well studied phenomenon for oxycodone. I don't have time to read
and quote them but here...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...0403a/abstract
http://www.springerlink.com/content/qlfl93kl1yg57fhe/
Just type it into google scholar.
Cheers for that amapola, interesting! Although frustratingly neither lin
k (obviously cos they're abstracts) explain why/how by eating a high-fat mean be
fore dosing could increase oxycondone plasma concentrations.
Other then eluding to;
It is superior to morphine in oral absorption and bioavailability, and s
imilar in terms of protein binding and lipophilicity
Source : http://www.springerlink.com/content/qlfl93kl1yg57fhe/

Quote Originally Posted by tyrael View Post

Cheers for that amapola, interesting! Although frustratingly neither lin
k (obviously cos they're abstracts) explain why/how by eating a high-fat mean be
fore dosing could increase oxycondone plasma concentrations.
Other then eluding to;
Source : http://www.springerlink.com/content/qlfl93kl1yg57fhe/
i never took the time to investigate nor did i care to, i simply found o
ut from first hand experience it gets you twice as high with a high fat meal (AN
D IT WORKS WITH ALL OPIATES/OPIOIDS NOT JUST HEROIN)and that was a good enough r
eason to keep doing it. i just reccomend that anyone who has a high tolerance sh
ould try it because its like trying opiates for the first time all over again..
Does the DXM work as an actual poteniator, or more of a tolerance revers
al tool? How much DXM are we talking here? Did anyone actually notice a differen
ce??
i get soma monthly as well as oxycodone. i agree soma does increase the
feeling of oxy but i feel like it also takes away from the euphoria which is my
favorite thing about oxy. so keep that in mind
grinch i am deff gonna try the red meat thing. i love meat anyways....il
l just get stoned tmmrw go drop offf my script, and then go find a good steak an

d eggs. then ill pick up my script smoke another bowl and snort 6-15mg oxys. ill
let that sit for a half hr or so and dose up form there ill c what mg it takes
to get a nod.
Quote Originally Posted by FlyBoy81 View Post
Does the DXM work as an actual poteniator, or more of a tolerance revers
al tool? How much DXM are we talking here? Did anyone actually notice a differen
ce??
Most definitely! I've found 40mg about 45mins to an hour before hand, th
en another 40mg when dosing the opiate. Be sure to reduce your opiate dose howev
er (at least to begin with until you're comfortable with how much it potentiates
). Remember to play safe!
The potentiating MOA is similar to how promethazine (or first-gen. antihistamines), it has a high affinity to certain opiate receptors only in the gut,
allowing for more of the opiate to reach the brain.
Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXM#Pharmacology for a read
^Promethazine and similar antihistamines don't bind to opioid receptors,
though. They 'potentiate' opioids because of their own inherent sedative effect
s.
Theoretically, DXM does have the potential to block certain opioids from
binding at kappa or delta sites, freeing them to bind to mu receptors. However
(as far as I'm aware) this has not been clearly characterized in the research. M
ost of what I've read about DXM's potentiating effects is related to its NDMA ac
tivity.
Quote Originally Posted by Altered Perception View Post
Guys please why wont anyone answer my question ?!
I will ask again....can you induce potentiation after you have already i
ngested the drug ?
I asked this earlier and when no one answered so I tried it out, I took
10mg Oxy and soon as I felt it kicking in about 45 mins later I drank a glass of
pure grapefruit juice and just when I thought the Oxy rush was over I then got
a second wave rush induced from the grapefruit juice, but it felt unpleasant.
Now I dont know if what I felt was from potentiating but I asumed it was
because I dont usually get a second rush after the first ones over. So can anyo
ne confirm if potentiating about an hour after ingesting can cause this? People
usually potentiate before they take the drug so I want to know if my method is v
alid? I have a very fast metobolism and it usually takes me around 15 - 30 minut
es for anything ingest to take effects so it wasnt long befor ethe grapefruit ju
ice kicked in whilst I was already feeling the effects of the oxy.
from what i have read on here it seems like the greapefruit juisce does
not work with codeine based opiates such as--oxycodone/oxycontin or hydrocodone- so maybe you were getting a placebo affect.
Quote Originally Posted by mrflowers00 View Post
in less than a week i get my oxys so i'ma try out milk thistle i've hear
d good rumors now to put them to the test
so whats the deal with the milk thistle. i just picked up one of my oxy
scripts today. sounds intresting can u tell me more

Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post

I got 11 5mg oxycodone without ace any hints on making the most out of t
hem (i also take 24mgs of subs a day) and know the tagament trick. any suggestio
ns?
hello mongoose & welcome.... 5 mg of oxy isn't anything when u look at t
he amount of subs you take a day....first of all im sure u aware you're going to
have to experience some withdraw to switch back to oxy after subs...
the reason being is because u need about 4 days especially on a dose lik
e that until the suboxone isn't binded to all the receptors. so i don't know why
your relapsing off your subs, but the amt of oxy u have is hardly worth the tro
uble of getn off subs and back onto oxy...
plus when you do go back on subs you will have to wait till u sart withd
rawing off the oxy to take one. so alot of trouble and discomfort for not much o
f a reward. i mean youre looking at a max dose of 55 mg, and i promise you wont
feel one bit of that unless you let the subs clear out for four days .youre call
man thats just my $.02
Shoot, I may try this DXM thing, but I do know that the grapefruit juice
thing does work for some opiods. For sure, no placebo effect.
Quote Originally Posted by dokomo View Post
^Promethazine and similar antihistamines don't bind to opioid receptors,
though. They 'potentiate' opioids because of their own inherent sedative effect
s.
You sir, are correct My bad!
Quote Originally Posted by dokomo View Post
Theoretically, DXM does have the potential to block certain opioids from
binding at kappa or delta sites, freeing them to bind to mu receptors. However
(as far as I'm aware) this has not been clearly characterized in the research. M
ost of what I've read about DXM's potentiating effects is related to its NDMA ac
tivity.
I've already heard/read conflicting reports also.

I use only fentanyl patches and only this(and one other i don't wanna sa
y because i'm afraid that someone could have an OD)works.And of course always be
careful with fuckin fent.
MartinFn
Lately I have been plugging my meds (morphine and dihydocodeine) due to
their low bioavailability. I have good results with grapefruit juice in the past
, will it still work with plugging? or should I shoot some up my bum ? lols.
Quote Originally Posted by brighton View Post
Lately I have been plugging my meds (morphine and dihydocodeine) due to
their low bioavailability. I have good results with grapefruit juice in the past
, will it still work with plugging? or should I shoot some up my bum ? lols.
Don't plug the grapefruit juice! It will still work drinking the juice a
nd plugging the morph/diphydro.
Grapefruit Juice is often mentioned which is obviously correct. But also

pure form bergamottin, bergamot oil, or large loads of strong Earl Grey
tea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin
My favorite opiate potentiators are wine and xanax/klonopin, the benzos
by themselves feel "cleaner" but together with alcohol (a sensible amount like a
large glass of wine or a 40oz of beer) and H they pack a punch.. Its that line
of not doing so much you black out and don't remember your rush/high, somehow if
I can't remember it when I come to its much less satisfying..
Obviously you want to be careful with your proportions as too much can e
asily cause you to fall asleep and not wake up..
Phenibut and Chlorphenamine(amti histamine) really potentiates a Poppy P
od Tea high.
Quote Originally Posted by GlassAss420 View Post
.... wine and xanax/klonopin, the benzos by themselves feel "cleaner" ..
..
Funny you should mention the "cleaner" feeling when mixing/potentiating
benzo with wine, because I've personally found that potentiating opies (such as
Codeine, Oxy, Morphine*** - the CYP2D6 substrates!) with DXM - although it defin
itely potentiates said drugs, it find it makes - when compared with them straigh
t - the high feel quite "dirty". I'm not entirely sure how to explain it correct
ly. However at a quick (without any research. Basically just going off a "very l
ittle [read: no :/] sleep over the past 24 hours(ish)"-stretched brain ) guess I
'd say it'll be due to the (additional) dissociative - and to a lesser extent (s
ince they doses required to potentiate said substances are no way near as much a
s what would be required for a straight DXM trip!) - the deliriant effects (of t
he DXM)!
Anyone else care to agree/disagree?
Quote Originally Posted by GlassAss420 View Post
....
Obviously you want to be careful with your proportions as too much can e
asily cause you to fall asleep and not wake up
..
Definitely good advice! I'm putting a +1 for this basically because I ha
d a situation whereby I, took too much DXM (with a 4pk, 30tablet, CWE of a "12.5
mg-ea tablet generic brand") and was in a state of "dissociative-ness" (I'm maki
ng this word up! You all get what I mean! ) and basically in my, err, "inebriate
d" state I came to the conclusion that I was an alien, and the whole world was m
ore or less here only because I was concious! And my life had to consist of basi
cally; living in my room, watching movies, and only get up and out of bed to get
food/fluids .... otherwise the world would cease to exist (if I didn't exist)!
Was an, umm, how would I put it? An extreme experience!* Probably the on
ly time after a trip (whether that be anything from weed, to MDx, to MXE, to LSD
trips!) that I kind of feel like I need to/should (in order to, I guess, possib
ly learn from, or just to make sense of, said trip and) write a trip-report!
***Quick edit (so I don't get flamed! ) re Morph being a substrate of CY
P2D6, just double checked (admittedly only on wiki just yet) and it confirms the
cytochrome P450 (CYP) family of enzymes involved in phase I metabolism however
nothing specifically on the former (specific) enzyme...so don't quote me on that

!
*Note that I say extreme since that's what it was for me! I'm sure this
would/might/always be the "norm" for those majorly into their psych's/dissociati
ves but like I said, for me, this was a very new (and somewhat frightening**) ex
perience.
** Note 2 that when I say "frightening" I found it was initially, but wi
thin, I dunno, say about 15mins (at wild guess considering obviously my temporal
cognition was way out the window!) of kinda "hitting that wall" I guess I just
kinda "went with it" and "accepted it as truth".
Quote Originally Posted by King Hop Head View Post
Phenibut and Chlorphenamine(amti histamine) really potentiates a Poppy P
od Tea high.
I have also heard the Phenibut suggestion for potentiating, basically an
y other depressant - considering it is a metabotropic* GABA(B) (and to a lesser
extent LGIC GABA(A) ) receptor agonist.
Opiates, weed, benzos (although i'd personally be a little hesitant/caut
ious mixing two GABAergic drugs but tbh I'm not entirely sure how much they woul
d potentiate each other! Basically just going on gut feeling here! ) to name jus
t a few!
Hey K_H_H, is Phenibut available OTC (here in Aus I am!). The wiki page
says it's OTC in the US but not too sure about Aus! I think I've had it...but (i
f it is what I think I've had then) I definitely didn't get it OTC! >_<
Also, I had never heard of the AH - "Chlorphenamine" - ....but that's no
t all it is (apparently!)....it seems to have quite a few other (nicely benefici
al!) side-effects! A brief wiki abstract;
In addition to being an histamine H1 receptor antagonist, chlorphenamine
has been shown to work as a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor or SNRI
.[3] A similar antihistamine, brompheniramine, led to the discovery of the SSRI
zimelidine.
Limited clinical evidence shows that it is comparable to several antidep
ressant medications in its ability to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin and also
norepinephrine (noradrenaline). However, extensive clinical trials of its psych
iatric properties in humans have not been conducted. It inhibits serotonin reupt
ake less than norepinephrine reuptake, however the literature is not consistent
in this respect.
....
an allergy medication with both antihistamine and decongestant propertie
s
....
it is also a potentiator of opioids, allowing enhanced suppression of co
ugh, analgesia, and other effects from a given quantity of the drug by itself. I
Although it does seem that there should be more clinical studies on this
drug, ey?!
* just this evening learnt that word (additionally what, I guess you cou
ld say are, the "most common" cells are in the body - eukaryotic/prokaryotic cel
ls plus certain receptors such as metabotropic/ionotropic (LGIC) receptor cells,
blah blah blah! ^^)

Oh, and just to make my post(s) an even 3....apologies for (slightly) hi

jacking the thread! It's all relevant, I swear!

So I am taking oral Terbinafine (Lamisil) for a nail infection. Apparent
ly terbinafine is a moderate CYP2D6 inhibitor. From what I understand, tramadol
is converted to O-Desmethyltramadol through this enzyme. So this would lower the
concentration of O-desmethyltramadol, correct? Also...could I make up for this
by drinking grapefruit juice and thus inhibiting CYP3A4?

I have used toradol and diclofenac - acetic acid derivative NSAIDS - and
they were extremely sedating. Lots of potentiation with opiates.
Keep
eople end up
However when
nzodiazepine

in mind that these drugs are not safe to use frequently, and some p
dying due to complications from extended toradol/diclofenac usage.
I used them, they were surprisingly sedating, much moreso than a be
in normal dosages.

I just recently heard of a drug called isoniazid which is used to treat

tuberculosis but also inhibits CYP 450 3A4. I do not know if this would be a rea
listic way to potentiate opiates so I figured I would go ahead and see if anyone
has any knowledge or experience with it.
Even if it is a viable potentiator, the fact that it is prescribed for t
reating tuberculosis means it is probably impossible to come by anyway. Besides,
the list of side effects sound like a horror movie.
Another group of drugs which inhibit CYP450 are sulfonamides - any reali
stic potential for potentiation there?
Last edited by Project Will; 11-08-2011 at 11:22.

I just use benzos, (preferably klonopin or xanax), and/or benadryl.

About chitosan with morphine. . . Will this work crushing up chitosan in
to powder, mixing 50/50 with a crushed MScontin pill and snorting the powder? Or
is it necessary to CWE the morphine and mix chitosan into the solution? Is ther
e some kind of binding that only happens in a liquid solution or will chitosan p
owder 'piggybacking' with the morphine in my nasal passage allow a higher bioava
ilablity that way? Despite what is said about the 10% BA of morphine taken nasal
ly I can get a buzz from one 60mg MScontin snorted but for some reason it's not
predictable. . . Sometimes I can snort one crushed pill and feel it just like if
I had swallowed it, sometimes barely any feeling at all.

Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post

I have used toradol and diclofenac - acetic acid derivative NSAIDS - and
they were extremely sedating. Lots of potentiation with opiates.
Keep in mind that these drugs are not safe to use frequently, and some p
eople end up dying due to complications from extended toradol/diclofenac usage.
However when I used them, they were surprisingly sedating, much moreso than a be

nzodiazepine in normal dosages.

Oh Diclofenac? By what MOA does this potentiate opiates? This is the fir
st time I've ever heard of NSAIDs causing sedation. Unless my understanding of t
he pharmacodynamics of acetic acid derivative NSAIDs are wrong - inhibition of t
he COX-1/COX-2 (and possibly COX-3) enzymes preventing the formation of prostagl
andins. From what I understand prostaglandins play many a role in the body but s
edation? I'm really interested C.H! If you're able to point to a paper or two th
at'll rock man!
i started off today by taking 3 tums then 30 mins after that took 40mg
f oxycodone and snorted 10mg of oxycodone 30 mins after that i snorted 10mg of
orphine sulphate IR then took 50mg of Diphenhydramine approx 60 mins later the
ffects were very relaxing and i will finish it off later with 10mg of diazapam
nd sit and watch the first day of the English premiership on sky later

o
m
e
a

All an all a nice mellow Saturday night

Tele
RISKY and i don't recommend this as I overdosed and almost Died.........
Xanax 6mg + 1 gram Black tar = OD
Safe ones that keep ur nod goin and prevent the itch......benadryl, Doxy
lamine. good.
Very dangerous when you take first the benzo's and then the opiates, i'm
sure that benzo's are maybe the best potentiators, but i don't suggest it to an
yone. Play more safe, you take the opiates first, and after some hours, you take
the benzo's for relax...safer=better.
MartinFn
DXM should be added to NMDA antagonists
what about UGT2B7 inhibitors like naproxen sodium and quinine? in additi
on, alcohol, a 2D6 inducer, is useful for potentiating the pro-drugs codeine, tr
amadol, and DXM

Does anyone know if guaifenesin will be absorbed by plugging? Swim has c

odeine/guaifenesin syrup but the guaifenesin sometimes hurts swims stomach.
guaifenesin is highly water soluble and should be fine to plug, but i'm
not to sure about the other inactive ingredients in your syrup...
i have cyclobenzaprine as well as promethazine and xanax on hand. all 3
of these are in me and now i'm about to dive into some H and/or opanaER.
IMO - the 3 things i mentioned are great potentiaters for opiates, obvio
usly the xanax is useless if you do NOT have any anxiety issues at all. it will
just make you tired/knock you out (different than nodding) but i swear by it som
etimes to flatten me out if i'm cold sober and on the edge of insanity...

Quote Originally Posted by Project Will View Post

I just recently heard of a drug called isoniazid which is used to treat
tuberculosis but also inhibits CYP 450 3A4. I do not know if this would be a rea
listic way to potentiate opiates so I figured I would go ahead and see if anyone
has any knowledge or experience with it.
Even if it is a viable potentiator, the fact that it is prescribed for t
reating tuberculosis means it is probably impossible to come by anyway. Besides,
the list of side effects sound like a horror movie.
Another group of drugs which inhibit CYP450 are sulfonamides - any reali
stic potential for potentiation there?
Isoniazid is a MAOI, mixing this type of drug can be risky from what I'v
e read.
Yes mixing Benzos with Opiates can be risky, particulary when you take t
he Benzo first. A high proportion of drug related deaths involve the two.
Have mixed Poppy Tea with Etizolam, was euphoric and sedated. If mixing
the two, I'd use an Opiate dose that lower than usual.

Hello everybody, just a simple question: Does meclozine HCL work as an o

piate (fentanyl) potentiator? (and if it does, at what doses..). Thanks,
MartinFn
Quote Originally Posted by Project Will View Post
I just recently heard of a drug called isoniazid which is used to treat
tuberculosis but also inhibits CYP 450 3A4. I do not know if this would be a rea
listic way to potentiate opiates so I figured I would go ahead and see if anyone
has any knowledge or experience with it.
Even if it is a viable potentiator, the fact that it is prescribed for t
reating tuberculosis means it is probably impossible to come by anyway. Besides,
the list of side effects sound like a horror movie.
Another group of drugs which inhibit CYP450 are sulfonamides - any reali
stic potential for potentiation there?
i use this drug Isoniazid and will for, uhg, the next 9 months. i did no
t know it inhibited any enzymes but have not noticed any potentiation. then agai
n, i've never noticed potentiation of any sort from any of the so called booster
s - white grapefruit, tagamet, benzos, etc. weed maybe, but that's not so much p
otentiation as a killer combination. anyway, you should stay away from Isoniazid
unless you need it. it's really hard on your liver..
-cb

Quote Originally Posted by MartinFn View Post

Hello everybody, just a simple question: Does meclozine HCL work as an o
piate (fentanyl) potentiator? (and if it does, at what doses..). Thanks,
MartinFn

Ya mean meclezine? Yeah, its Dramamine, right. Known effect is drowsines

s. I would be wary to mix Fent w/anything anyhow...
Quote Originally Posted by MartinFn View Post
Very dangerous when you take first the benzo's and then the opiates, i'm
sure that benzo's are maybe the best potentiators, but i don't suggest it to an
yone. Play more safe, you take the opiates first, and after some hours, you take
the benzo's for relax...safer=better.
MartinFn
I don't ever see why theres a need for any potentiator.......if your pre
scribed ask your doctor, and express your issues, if they dont care GO ELSEWHERE
! I am one to talk, I am on Methadone and Xanax Bars. I have the worse insomnia
and would rather stay up then take 6mg of Xanax. I just feel its too high of a d
ose. Not that it is for everyone but I only need 4mgs. Not complaining just sayi
ng if you are not prescribed or are and are doing junkie business and have yet t
o see a real haaaarrrrddd nod, its not fun. You have to stay awake if it gets to
o intense of a nod unless you want to die, and at times it can be soooo hard eve
n standing up, not constantly falling over standing up. I hate topics like this,
but to each your own....

I KNOW this is off topic. I just want to express how bad it is mixing op
iates or opioids with benzos or any other drug that will intensify effects.
st
What mg should I NOT exceed of Hydroxyzine if I take them and then insuf
flate Oxymorphone? I have 2 opana 40s. Was planning on doing both gradually toni
ght.
Ive taken two hydroxzyines 25mgs so far.
Personally I would titrate the Opana,starting at a lower dose than usual
. Say have half your usual dose, then 30-40 minutes take a bit more, and so on.
Have a sitter nearbt incase things do get out of hand.
Quote Originally Posted by kanyeknievel View Post
What mg should I NOT exceed of Hydroxyzine if I take them and then insuf
flate Oxymorphone? I have 2 opana 40s. Was planning on doing both gradually toni
ght.
Ive taken two hydroxzyines 25mgs so far.
You should be fine.
Hydroxyzine is less likely to have unwanted side effects when compared t
o other antihistamines.

What can be used to potentiate tramadol's ANALGESIC effects? I'm on flex

oril, gabapentin, pantaprazole, and wellbutrin continuously, and I have meclizin
e and diphenhydramine readily available. Also, will the tums and grapefruit juic
e help? I just know that tramadol is a weird opioid and wasn't sure if the conve
ntional methods would help with absorption and/or potentiation. I also know that
O-desmethyltramadol is what causes the pain-killing effects so I was wondering
if the grapefruit juice would actually hinder its effects.
Just wondering how carbamazapine affects poppy tea. I remember reading t

hat it converts codeine or whatever into morphine quicker but at the same time m
akes it leave the body quicker. As the other night I did a tiny dose of pods , o
nly about 3 or so in a cafetier and had taken a couple carbamazapine + pregabali
n (both prescription) before hand and the high was extremely euphoric.
I love the tried and true white grapefruit juice concentrate and immodiu
m or loperamide about 8 mgs I promise youll feel better than if you didnt try it

anyone every try mucuna pruriens extract ? Or l-tyrosine?

so far I've been using both and they are phenomenally effective
Quote Originally Posted by Mercc96 View Post
Just wondering how carbamazapine affects poppy tea. I remember reading t
hat it converts codeine or whatever into morphine quicker but at the same time m
akes it leave the body quicker. As the other night I did a tiny dose of pods , o
nly about 3 or so in a cafetier and had taken a couple carbamazapine + pregabali
n (both prescription) before hand and the high was extremely euphoric.
Yeah, it would be nice to know. I was also given carbamazepine, but I wa
s fearing loosing "soul" because of it. Now I have quite a lot of them
By losing soul what do you mean? I'd love to know your experiences with
the drug via pm or something
What does L-tyrosine do to potentiate opiates? I thought it was like lev
adopa or something
http://www.pharmacytimes.com/publica...eractions-0909
I've searched a few threads about potentiation, and saw people talking a
bout medication and potentiations I have never heard of in my life. I would like
to know how to intensify oxymorphone and oxycodone. I'm sure someone can answer
this quickly for me, I'm just being a little slow right now. I heard grape frui
t juice or whatever, anything else??
Cimetidine (tagamet) or some antihistamines such as benadryl (diphenhydr
amine) are some other readily available potentiators.
Last edited by Tommyboy; 22-09-2011 at 22:06.
Quote Originally Posted by Tommyboy View Post
Cimetidine (tagamet) or some antihistamines such as benadry (diphenhydra
mine) are some other readily available potentiators.
Are these easy to get? And is the grapefruit juice a proven theory? I ha
te to make a stupid thread about this, but I read the Opiate Potentiation thread
and got nothing out of it!
Quote Originally Posted by Opaner View Post
Are these easy to get? And is the grapefruit juice a proven theory? I ha
te to make a stupid thread about this, but I read the Opiate Potentiation thread

and got nothing out of it!

They are available at any store really. Anything from a convenient store
, to a pharmacy, to a grocery store. The cimetidine is for heat burn, and you kn
ow what the benadryl is for. I listed the generic names because they are cheaper
. If you take the benadryl (diphendydramine) only take one, which I think is 25m
gs. If you take upwards of 100mgs, you can have a very bad experience, and some
people report seeing bugs and stuff on the walls.
The grapefruit juice is proven, but it has to be the pure white grapefru
it juice. I am not sure if it is used more for benzo potentiation though.
BTW, it is merged into the potentiation thread now.

Diphenhydramine HCl is also used as OTC sleep aids. It's the "PM" in "Ty
lenol PM" but it can also be found by itself. I just buy the 50mg gelcaps.
Has anyone tried any of these potentiation s with oxymorphone?
Quote Originally Posted by Opaner View Post
Has anyone tried any of these potentiation s with oxymorphone?
Since oxymorphone is just becoming popular now, I don't know if many peo
ple will have tried potentiating it, but I am sure someone will chime in if they
have. Potentiating opiates is potentiating opiates though. I have used the prod
ucts that I mentioned above with morphine, oxycodone, and heroin, so I am sure t
he effects will be the same when it comes to oxymorphone.
The effects are very subtle though, except with the diphendydramine, sin
ce it is somewhat sedating, and many find that it makes opiates a little more no
ddy.

Quote Originally Posted by Tommyboy View Post

Since oxymorphone is just becoming popular now, I don't know if many peo
ple will have tried potentiating it, but I am sure someone will chime in if they
have. Potentiating opiates is potentiating opiates though. I have used the prod
ucts that I mentioned above with morphine, oxycodone, and heroin, so I am sure t
he effects will be the same when it comes to oxymorphone.
The effects are very subtle though, except with the diphendydramine, sin
ce it is somewhat sedating, and many find that it makes opiates a little more no
ddy.
This isn't the case with Tramadol though, I've heard.
That's because tramadol is a unique drug, and potentiating it is best do
ne not by enzyme inhibition or induction, but simply by "ramping" your dose. Tha
t is, taking your dose in small increments over a set period of time, like an ho
ur or two.
I personally start with 100-150 mg, and take another 50-100mg over the c
ourse of an hour or so, every 15-20 minutes, until I reach my desired dose.
Because of tramadols unique action, each dose you take increases the fol
lowing doses BA. I can attest to this working quite well, and can reduce or remo
ve the over-stimulated feeling and some of the other unpleasant side effects tra

madol can occasionally spring on you.

Try it if you didn't already know this, I recommend it.
As far as the sedating stuff goes, I wouldn't combine benadryl with tram
adol in hopes of potentiating it, mostly because I enjoy the initial stimulation
and the sedated feeling that comes later on in the day. I think it would dampen
it too much for me, at least if I took it too early. I like my tramadol for bre
akfast, though.
I take it for chronic pain...
So should I start with 100mg when I wake up, and take another 50mg every
3 hours? lol
I normally take 2 pills QID (~Q4-5H). I'm not trying to get fucked up on
this, just wanting to get my pain levels down.
EDIT: and I don't take diphenhydramine to get fucked up lol...I take 100
mgs to try to be able to sleep lol...
Would dramamine help with the pain relief?

I would start with two tablets, then 20-30minutes later take another 1-2
tablets.
Then use the rest of your daily pill allotment as you see fit for the pa
in throughout the day.
Ah...I get 8 pills/day...
So you think it would be better if I, in essence, half-ass double dose,
then take the rest in a TID manner (2 pills q6h)?
Just for clarification, anything prescribed TID or once/8 hours, I take
as q6h because of sleep, the same with BID being 8 as opposed to 12, and QID bei
ng 4-5 instead of 6...that reminds me...I haven't re-dosed my wellbutrin lol.
Do me a favor and be careful taking wellbutrin and tramadol together. Th
at combination (in the dosage of 150mg tramadol, 300mg wellbutrin) gave me a sei
zure.
I should have known better. I knew they both lower the seizure threshold
. I forgot about that little tidbit of info, until I woke up awhile later thinki
ng I took a nap to the story of how I seized on the bed for 15 minutes. Then it
hit me, lol.
It probably won't happen to you or anyone else hopefully, but hell I tho
ught I should just put that out there. It's good to know all the risks, I think.
To answer your question: I'd start with two pills first thing, then take
one or two more twenty minutes later. Then in a couple of hours have another, s
ooner if you're really hurting. Rinse and repeat.
Quote Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
Do me a favor and be careful taking wellbutrin and tramadol together. Th
at combination (in the dosage of 150mg tramadol, 300mg wellbutrin) gave me a sei

zure.
I should have known better. I knew they both lower the seizure threshold
. I forgot about that little tidbit of info, until I woke up awhile later thinki
ng I took a nap to the story of how I seized on the bed for 15 minutes. Then it
hit me, lol.
It probably won't happen to you or anyone else hopefully, but hell I tho
ught I should just put that out there. It's good to know all the risks, I think.
To answer your question: I'd start with two pills first thing, then take
one or two more twenty minutes later. Then in a couple of hours have another, s
ooner if you're really hurting. Rinse and repeat.
My father had convulsions on wellbutrin after he took 200mg(?) or so of
ultram. He had a little clonazepam in his system, so it didn't require an ambula
nce like his seizures have before, so it certainly can happen.
@Doug: 8 tramadol a day? That is ridiculous! I mean is it working out fo
r you?
Nope lmao...I'm at the maximum daily dosage...I can't shit but 2 times a
week and I'm still at a 5 on the pain scale with my meds in me. When I first to
ld the doc my meds weren't working for me, I was told, "Well, the next step up i
s hydrocodone, and you're too young for that."
On the Wellbutrin, I take Bupropion SR 150mg BID, usually 8-10 hours apa
rt...
Is it worth it to take things like benadryl or other old school anthista
mines if you're gonna IV ? When I eat oxycodone yeah, benadryl are actually a li
fe saver as I tend to be allergic a bit to them (fucking urticaria all over my b
ody at times). With dilaudid IV 8mg I get a crazy rush and then a much shorter h
igh than if snorted. Would benadryl prolong it or something ?
They will enhance the effects no matter what your opiate ROA is.

I don't think benadryl will 'prolong' the effects of the IV hydromorphon

e, anymore than smoking pot will 'prolong' it. But it will certainly work togeth
er for your benefit, and won't hurt in the least. Like NeighborhoodThreat said,
it will enhance the effects no matter what RoA you use. I think hydromorphone is
best plugged or snorted, but I've always been willing to trade-off the initial
rush for longer lasting effects. To each his own. ;p
When I have a short supply of dillies like right now, especially low dos
age (2mg), I find that slamming them all quickly will prevent the withdrawals th
at if i were to snort all 40 of them over 5-6 days...
Quote Originally Posted by Nickles View Post
This Only works on non-codeine opioids:
A white grapfruit juce and tonic water cocktail
Tagamet and tums, If taking oraly.
DPH
Synergizers:

Soma, low doses of DXM, Narproxen, and cannabis or booze.

If you use the booze, DON'T use narproxen or vice versa.
Also, DXM keeps down tolerance, so it's even better.
What does DXM stand for? doxylamine

^dextromethorphan

Quote Originally Posted by amapola View Post

^dextromethorphan
Please be careful if you're planning on using DXM to potentiate opiates!
Often (in actual fact, all except one) OTC product in Australia (containing DXM
) contains other ingredient which can in best case scenario just make you sick).
If you plan to, make sure you get a product which contains only DXM (and genera
lly artificial sweeteners or other non-active ingredient) - the one in Aus (and
sold elsewhere in the world) is Robitussin Dry Cough Forte.
I generally ingest 20-40mg of the DXM, 45mins to 1hour before ingesting
the opiate (codeine generally in my case), and then another 20mg-40mg at the sam
e time as the opiate.
Play safe!

I usually takes 30-35mg of Oxycodone (percocet 10/325) for pain relief b

ut is looking for a way to lower that dose. I have read this entire thread and w
asn't able to find any concrete answers to te following question. How much shoul
d the oxy dose be lowered when potentiating with one or all of GFJ, DXM, Tums an
d Tagamet? I would really like to find a combination that allows for a lower dos
e of oxy but wants to experiment SAFELY. Also, will these method cause problems
with the amount of APAP present in this dosage (roughly 1g)?
Last edited by trip0r; 02-10-2011 at 14:21.

Quote Originally Posted by trip0r View Post

SWIM usually takes 30-35mg of Oxycodone (percocet 10/325) for pain relie
f but is looking for a way to lower that dose. SWIM has read this entire thread
and wasn't able to find any concrete answers to te following question. How much
should the oxy dose be lowered when potentiating with one or all of GFJ, DXM, Tu
ms and Tagamet? SWIM would really like to find a combination that allows for a l
ower dose of oxy but wants to expiriment SAFELY. Also, will these method cuase p
roblems with the amount of APAP present in this dosage (roughly 1g)?
Well first off "SWIM" shouldn't be taking that much APAP on a daily basi
s. More importantly, did YOU read the rules? There is NO FUCKING "SWIM"ing ON BL
UELIGHT. I am sick and tired of seeing this bullshit. Are none of you smart enou
gh to read the goddamn forum rules that you are required to agree to before you
come here??? SWIM is strictly prohibited. Also, are you really gullible enough t
o think that using "SWIM" when you are obviously tlaking about yourself is going
to help you avoid self-incrimination??? If they want you, they will fucking get
you, because this magical "SWIM" doesn't exist and it is your IP address postin
g this bullshit.
So if YOU are asking me how to potentiate your oxy, I will help you, but

I will NOT fucking give advice to you, on the basis of "SWIM". So learn to read
, and quit being a goddamn tool.
Edited. Thank you for pointing out the rule but there is no need to be s
o hostile about it.
Thank you. I normally wouldn't be so hostile, but this is the 4th time i
n the last week that someone has used that SWIM bullshit. And I hate SWIM, in fa
ct I refuse to post on boards that make you do that stupid shit, because it does
NOT PROTECT YOU!!!
Ok, on to "your" question.
First, if they are 10/325's, then the APAP should be no problem. Unfortu
nately, potentiating them will be a problem. You see, the liver breaks down oxyc
odone, like it breaks down all drugs, causing it to wear off. Unfortunately, the
liver also metabolizes a portion of the dose into oxymorphone, which is much, M
UCH more potent than oxycodone itself, and helps give it that kick that we love
so much. Now, the enzyme that destroys oxy is CYP3A4; the enzyme that converts r
oughly 10% of the dose is CYP2D6.
Thus, your best bet would be to inhibit ONLY CYP3A4, and not CYP2D6, so
that you can slow down the metabolism of the oxy, while still getting a full oxy
morphone yield. Unfortunately, almost every drug that inhibits cyp3a4 also inhib
its cyp2d6, which means there is not much you can do. But, some people have a ma
lformed CYP2d6 anyway, which means they can inhibit enzymes, while still getting
the same effect.
Your best bet is to take 600-800mg of Tagament with THE DOSE YOU WOULD N
ORMALLY take. This is becuase your dose will last longer, but most likely be a t
ad weaker, though not much. Remember to take it about 30-45 minutes before you d
ose. Preferably, you want around 37.5mg diphenhydramine hydrochloride and 15-30m
g DXM, for synergy. Try it once, and report back.
(Also, I will post a couple of links for you, detailing the various CYP
inducers/inhibitors/substrates, and some interesting stuff about oxy) If I remem
ber...
Edit: In the name of harm reduction, IF you mix anything with your dose
aside from the tagament, you should lower it by 5-10mg the first time, just to b
e safe, though if you have a tolerance it honestly shouldn't matter unless you g
et into some HARDCORE potentiation like I do!!!

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. I'll report the results.
all I know is when I take 100mg methadone "normal dose" of methadone in
morning I feel nothing just normal but not sick, although if I take 2 ultra stre
ngth tums then take those 8 10mg tabs I feel the methadone 3x stronger.
Tried normal dose with 30mg of DXM and 400mg of Tagament. Didn't notice
a difference in effectiveness from this combo. The only difference is a spacey f
eeling from what I assume is the DXM, which I don't particularly like. I don't t
hink I will be trying this combo again.
I tried searching the thread, but didn't find any definitive answers.

I've heard White Grapefruit

? What is it exactly that is in the
curious to know chemical names, and
uch a way that allows the Opiate to

works best, but what about Ruby Red, and why

Grapefruit that potentiates the Opiate? I'm
specifics and how they effect the brain in s
potentiate itself.

Quote Originally Posted by J.Wallace View Post

I tried searching the thread, but didn't find any definitive answers.
I've heard White Grapefruit works best, but what about Ruby Red, and why
? What is it exactly that is in the Grapefruit that potentiates the Opiate? I'm
curious to know chemical names, and specifics and how they effect the brain in s
uch a way that allows the Opiate to potentiate itself.
It's a flavanoid present only in white GFJ, er, a few chemicals. Bergamo
ttin is the main one, IIRC.
@tripOr: 400mg tagament probably wouldn't make much of a difference. If
you like nodding out, OTC anti-histamines d muscle relaxers??? And at 30mg DXM,
you wouldn't have gotten any recreational effects, takes 50-100mg to break the t
hreshold.
Grapefruit juice inhibits the cytochrome P450 liver enzyme system which
is what breaks down or metabolizes a number of drugs. I believe it slows down or
stops the enzyme activity which means an increase in the level of the medicine,
for a longer time. It only affects a few types of opiates.
Some people swear by this, that they can tell a huge difference. Others
beg to differ. But for the people that say it works, say it's only like the pure
white grapefruit juice that will do the trick. It is probably mostly placebo. F
or me, the only thing that really worked was Tagamet(name brand) or Cimetidine.
I noticed a slight difference/increase with my daily methadone dose. I think it
pretty much does the same thing grapefruit juice does.

Quote Originally Posted by lorne667 View Post

It's a flavanoid present only in white GFJ, er, a few chemicals. Bergamo
ttin is the main one, IIRC.
So Ruby Red Grapefruit Juice not from concentrate wouldn't chemically ha
ve any effect? I hear some people say it's actually counter productive in absorp
tion of the chemical.

Quote Originally Posted by J.Wallace View Post

So Ruby Red Grapefruit Juice not from concentrate wouldn't chemically ha
ve any effect? I hear some people say it's actually counter productive in absorp
tion of the chemical.
No, ONLY PURE 100% WHITE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE IS USEFUL. And to Runrunrun, i
t is not placebo, there is a remarkable difference IF you inhibit the enzyme eno
ugh with the proper drugs. I found it works best with methadone, as I am one of
those weird people who prefers methadone over many other opiates(I mean extreme
potency, killer half life, no fucking pro-drugs to worry about, and full agonism
without overt drowsiness or speedy effect OR the requirement to bang the shit t
o get any effect) and man, I have taken so much klonopin and methadone with WGFJ
and a handful of tagament(not to mention atarax) that I have fucking woke up hi
gh the next day!!! But he is 100% right about one thing: Tagament is superior to

WGFJ, for most intents and purposes. I mean, WGFJ is technically considered a m
ore potent inhibitor than cimetidine, but cimetidine covers a wider range of enz
ymes, not to mention that is is a helluva lot easier to pop a few tagament than
it is to drink a liter of fucking juice.
Just remember, one glass of WGFJ won't help that much, just as 1 tagamen
t won't. It takes a few glasses of WGFJ and/or 600-800mg of tagament to work. Ju
st watch out though, becuase once you find the magic potentiation combo, you may
very well end up like me, so dependent on the potentiators, that without them,
your dose is almost useless, as you have to take higher doses AND dose more ofte
n if you don't have them.
(BTW, it would only be counter productive becuase of the acidity. Also,
let me stress again it must be white!!!
So I've been drinking this nasty grapefruit juice for nothing? -.I got the Simply brand, but all they had was "Simply Grapefruit" not "Si
mply WGF"
does the white make that much difference?
lorne,
I guess I have just haven't tried enough pure wgfj. I am in mmt at the m
oment. I used to get a script for mdones though. And man I was like you, before
I started banging, I preferred methadone. I could take 90-100mgs at one time and
be high for 2 days. I always had an eye out for mdones before I got my script a
nd then when I did, I was greedy as hell with them. But like I said, once I star
ted the iv route, methadone just didn't do the same.
This has definantly been asked before, but i cant find it...but i am won
dering what to take to increase hydrocodones euphoric effects?
Im looking to increase the warmth and overall content feeling of my hydr
ocodone. so, any ideas?

if you would search you find alot on this but try taking some dimenhydri
nate
yeah i have done a few hours worth of research and i have found drugs th
at potentiate the sedative and relaxant effects of opiates but not the warmth an
d actual euphoria of them. is that otc or prescription?

soma
Certain enzyme inhibitors may increase the duration of the effects, but
don't really add to the euphoria. At least not very much, negligible at best. An
tihistamines will add to the sedation factor of the buzz, but won't add to the e
uphoria either.
I find marijuana to be the best addition to opiates for overall euphoria

increase, other than that, don't expect miracles.

There is nothing OTC that makes opiates more euphoric, sorry. Potentiato
rs will either help analgesia/sedation (antihistamines, anticholinergics) or mak
e the drug last longer/be converted to active metabolites more effectively (enzy
me inhibitors/inducers respectively) but they won't actually make your drugs fee
l any 'better'. The best general-purpose OTC potentiators are generally sedative
antihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl), dimenhydrinate (Gravol), promet
hazine (Phenergan), or doxylamine (Unisom) taken as recommended for allergies (u
sually 25mg diphenhydramine equivalent).
If you want to get into mixing drugs though you can try mixing either ma
rijuana, dissociatives, or other depressants with your opioid. I reccomend only
adding one drug at a time and only using drugs you are experienced with. (Don't
do a cocktail of Vicodin and Soma if you've never done Soma.) But be warned that
mixing depressants like Soma, benzos, barbiturates, and alcohol with opioids ca
n cause an increased risk of unconciousness, vomiting, and death.
Another option is trying a different opiate, or simply taking more.
Guidelines for OD ||| OD Standards ||| OD Directory Read Me First! ||| N
PD Rules
Please read the links above or PM me if I lock your post. R.I.P. F28

clonidine and hydroxyzine if you can get prescriptions for them (fairly
easy to get)
i swear by them
Quote Originally Posted by HdoubleODeezy View Post
clonidine and hydroxyzine if you can get prescriptions for them (fairly
easy to get)
i swear by them
what do they do for you?
Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
There is nothing OTC that makes opiates more euphoric, sorry. Potentiato
rs will either help analgesia/sedation (antihistamines, anticholinergics) or mak
e the drug last longer/be converted to active metabolites more effectively (enzy
me inhibitors/inducers respectively) but they won't actually make your drugs fee
l any 'better'. The best general-purpose OTC potentiators are generally sedative
antihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl), dimenhydrinate (Gravol), promet
hazine (Phenergan), or doxylamine (Unisom) taken as recommended for allergies (u
sually 25mg diphenhydramine equivalent).
If you want to get into mixing drugs though you can try mixing either ma
rijuana, dissociatives, or other depressants with your opioid. I reccomend only
adding one drug at a time and only using drugs you are experienced with. (Don't
do a cocktail of Vicodin and Soma if you've never done Soma.) But be warned that
mixing depressants like Soma, benzos, barbiturates, and alcohol with opioids ca
n cause an increased risk of unconciousness, vomiting, and death.

Another option is trying a different opiate, or simply taking more.

Although it sounds well informed, I believe this post contains some misi
nformation. You can definately get an oral opiate potentiator (multiple) OTC. Th
e most common is cimetedine which comes in either the form of Tagemet (product)
or in some generic store brand form (go for that one). EDIT: Cimetedine is reall
y the best one out there.
Also as you stated diphenhyrimine and diphenhydrinate (spelling may be a
bit off) work but only take a tiny bit as they can cause some unwanted effects
at higher doses.
It's not talked about too much but DXM (dextrometamorphen) or something
like that can potentiate your opiods at small doses like 70-100mg. Again don't g
o off the chain with any of these because it will do bad things to your opiate b
uzz. But at certain smaller doses they definately DO work and DO increases the d
uration and intensity of opiates.
^^^ Actually he did mention tagament. It's just that tagament(and all P4
50 inhibitors) don't add to the euphoria per say, but simply enhance the drugs e
ffects. Of course this will make them feel more euphoric, in fact, I can't reall
y get euphoria from methadone unless higher-than-I-need doses are taken, but tag
ament helps add it. It's all about personal preference and metabolizm, but a lot
of people confuse actual potentiators with drugs that produce synergy. As an ex
ample, a few klonopin will always make an oxy high more enjoyable, but WGFJ will
actually enhcance the oxycodones effects directly, by reducing CYP3A4 metabolis
m(contrary to popular belief, WGFJ doesn't inhibit CYP2D6, at least not effectiv
ely) and slightly increasing potency and greatly increasing duration. Meanwhile,
the clonozepam doesn't alter the oxy's effects in any way, but it has it's own
effects that make the oxy *feel* better.

Oh man I appalogize I didn't see it. Yeah all his info is legit as is yo
urs.. Theres no way a 30 feel like an 80 but if you use basic potentiation you c
an definately achieve an enhanced effect, just don't ruin the high by oversatura
ting it with other drugs.
^^^ Exactly. I couldn't of said it better myself man!
Quote Originally Posted by burn out View Post
what do they do for you?
(im scripted them for anxiety and blood pressure along with a zillion ot
hers for mental health/ bipolar.. blah blah..)
Clonidine increases the nod greatly (hell if you take enough it will hav
e you nod without any opiates lol).. and hydroxyzine is an antihistamine that ge
ts rid of anxiety and produces a decent amount of *synergism*(i wanna use that w
ord cautiously because it's not the word i am looking for but i can't think of a
better one ATM).
Also it potentiates it like other antihistamines and helps against the i
tching if you don't like it.
Quote Originally Posted by HdoubleODeezy View Post
(im scripted them for anxiety and blood pressure along with a zillion ot
hers for mental health/ bipolar.. blah blah..)

Clonidine increases the nod greatly (hell if you take enough it will hav
e you nod without any opiates lol).. and hydroxyzine is an antihistamine that ge
ts rid of anxiety and produces a decent amount of *synergism*(i wanna use that w
ord cautiously because it's not the word i am looking for but i can't think of a
better one ATM).
Also it potentiates it like other antihistamines and helps against the i
tching if you don't like it.
It is "synergy", LOL, not "synergism". Synergism isn't a word, as far as
I know. But your usage of synergy/synergism is perfect in this sense, that's ex
actly what antihistamines do, though some also inhibit CYP2D6 to an extent.

So, to recap:
Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
There is nothing OTC that makes opiates more euphoric, sorry.
The point is there is no alchemy. Although, the increased duration of ac
tion is worth the effort of taking a few Tagamet, or drinking a couple glasses o
f grapefruit juice before you dose, IMO.
Last edited by Oxide; 24-10-2011 at 03:04.
My preferences: Carisoprodol (Soma), Promethazine, and Hydroxyzine. Cari
soprodol adds to the euphoria remarkably
I've always noticed a bit of a difference taking Tagamet with methadone
and as well as St. John's Wort with subutex/suboxone.
Pure white grape fruit juice is supposed to help in the same way as Taga
met does with methadone but I have personally never noticed a difference though
enough people swear by it, I'd say it's worth a try.

lyrica, benzos, marijuana, anti-histamines (first-generation) and tagame

t. oh yah, and did i mention lyrica?
There are
if you're looking
, you're probably
lcohol or benzos,

a lot of OTC drugs that will increase sedation and stuff, but
to increase the actual euphoria or mental effects of an opiate
gonna need another "drug of abuse". You're best bet would be a
be careful

Quote Originally Posted by Keif' Richards View Post

There are a lot of OTC drugs that will increase sedation and stuff, but
if you're looking to increase the actual euphoria or mental effects of an opiate
, you're probably gonna need another "drug of abuse". You're best bet would be a
lcohol or benzos, be careful
In the interests of harm reduction for combining moderate doses of opiat
es with alcohol, what is a rough estimate of the safe amount of alcochol before
there starts to become a danger of CNS depression with dangerous slowed breathin
g & heart rate ?
Would someone need to drink enough to become very drunk before this beco
mes a danger ? or could just even a few beers or glasses of wine be potentially
dangerous ?

To the OP, I am personally not a believer in anti-histamines + opiates,

because they inhibit the release of histamine (cause of the actual warmth, itchi
ness). I'd recommend a small, and I mean small dose of benzos for what you're lo
oking for. It may not add to the warmth, but it will add to the contentedness yo
u are in search of. It will a bit more anxiety-relieving.

Just an empty stomach....

And a shot of patron silver...not heavy drinking just one shot....empty
stomach...nice warm feeling is definitely affected
^I don't think the type of liquor matters.
Nothing is going to make much of a difference unless you take something
else that causes euphoria on its own. In that case you are only mixing drugs ins
tead of boosting one up with something harmless.
I think 4 beers would equal 4 shots, though. Liquor has the advantage of
being a small amount of stuff that the stomach has to work with, and won't dilu
te the opiates in your system as much as beer.
Quote Originally Posted by shellybabe View Post
And a shot of patron silver...not heavy drinking just one shot....empty
stomach...nice warm feeling is definitely affected
Liquor & opiates is always a bad idea...especially on an empty stomache,
you'll get a gut-ache from hell
Nothing wrong with either, by thereself - in moderation....

Ok so I know that both diphenhydrinate and diphenhydramine exist and are

readily available otc (motion sickness pills, Tylenol PM, benadryl ect...)
But is one more effective than the other in terms of potentiation or eve
n as a drug in general? They seem like they are damnnn close in intoxicant prope
rties to me... Too close to say that one works better than the other.
I've came to the conclusion that both are equally as effective as a slee
p aid (all I use em for other than with opies) and as potentiators.
Can someone clear this up for me.. or just throw me what info you know o
n the subject.
Thank you..
Mangoman
^ Yeah, they are pretty much equal. The main difference is that Dramamin
e(diphenhydrinate) is less potent per mg, but this is compensated by the fact th
at Dramamine has 50mg per pill, vs 25mg for Benadryl. Remember that Dramamine ba
sically is benadryl, but is chemicall altered, to add anti-emetic properties. So
about 25mg out of every 50mg Dramamine is (almost) literally Benadryl.

The other difference is the aforementioned anti-emetic effects of Dramam

ine. This means equal doses of both can be taken, Dramamine will be a little les
s potent, but also cause less drowsiness. Basically which one you choose is abou
t personal preference, and whatever drug you are taking. For example, I prefer D
ramamine with Methadone(momma showed me that a LONG time ago ) but Benadryl with
most other things. Though if I can get hydroxyzine(Atarax/Vistirel) then it is
the best, and promethazine(Phenergan) is good too.
But again, they ultimately have the same drowsiness/potentiation abiliti
es at equinelgisic(sic) doses.

i always take xanax with oxy, not because i want to get more high but ju
st so i can take less oxy cos the shit is so expensive here... if you are gonna
do it always reduce your doses because respitory depression is fuckn scary
also if you have opis available i would just take more, just as good eup
horia and safer than mixing drugs.
Quote Originally Posted by Mango733 View Post
Although it sounds well informed, I believe this post contains some misi
nformation. You can definately get an oral opiate potentiator (multiple) OTC. Th
e most common is cimetedine which comes in either the form of Tagemet (product)
or in some generic store brand form (go for that one). EDIT: Cimetedine is reall
y the best one out there.
Also as you stated diphenhyrimine and diphenhydrinate (spelling may be a
bit off) work but only take a tiny bit as they can cause some unwanted effects
at higher doses.
It's not talked about too much but DXM (dextrometamorphen) or something
like that can potentiate your opiods at small doses like 70-100mg. Again don't g
o off the chain with any of these because it will do bad things to your opiate b
uzz. But at certain smaller doses they definately DO work and DO increases the d
uration and intensity of opiates.
I take 45-75 mg of DXM as well an hour before my morphine/ms contin dose
, and it prolongs the duration & strength.! Also I noticed I can take less morph
ine.
I also like to take 50-100 mg ephedrine with my morphine, or vicodin. It
makes for a nice come up, and strengthens the opiate
This thread could not have had better timing, lol. I needed help with hy
drocodone as well. Thanks everyone! I will most likley be going with benedryl, I
'll make sure to report back with the results.

I'm sure these have all been mentioned, but just in case:
- Tums
- Grapefruit juice (** Preferably fresh squeezed white grapefruit **)
- Naproxen (Aleve)
- Certain Anti-histamines
- Benzodiazepines (Be careful. Use discretion and a somewhat small (i.e.
therapeutic) dose of Benzos.)
There are several others , but those are the main ones really.

My Opiate pre-dose (typically 10-15 min prior to the Opiate dose) is thi
s:
- 8 to 16oz Grapefruit juice (Fresh squeezed white when I can find white
grapefruit... Usually red (or white from concentrate) because I can rarely find
white grapefruit)
- 3 1000g Tums, so 3g of Calcium Carbonate
- 660-880mg Naproxen (Either 3-4 Aleve or 1 prescription Naproxen usuall
y). Don't use this much if you're doing it multiple times throughout the day (mo
re than 2-3 or so I'd say). I don't recall Naproxen being a potentiator to ALL o
piates though, so check that out. It definitely is for Hydrocodone.
sometimes I'll throw in the following
- 25-50mg Benadryl
- 1-2mg Klonopin
Follow that pre-dose technique (the Benadryl and Benzo aren't needed as
much as the others are IMO) and you'll probably get 50-100% more effect out of t
he Opiates (or that's how it seems to me), and the peak will last a good deal lo
nger. 20mg of Hydrocodone easily feels like 40mg if I do this pre-dose (minus th
e Benzos and Benadryl) and lasts a lot longer. It doesn't change the feel of the
high either... If anything, it just adds some more warmth / floatiness.
As everyone has pointed out that to increase ones actual euphoria, poten
taters and the like are not going to help out much, and so other "drugs" as in r
ecreational drugs by themselves can be used. Many mentioned other "downers" like
benzos and alcohol, but you should take it very easy with those as it can reall
y upset the stomach and make you nauseous (alcohol in particular) or become fata
l (both) due to respiratory depression.
I however would like to mention mixing in some Cocaine or Crack. And thi
s is not at all meant as a judgment but seeing as you are posting specifically a
bout Hydrocodones this leads me to believe you may be a little less experienced
with drugs in general, Cocaine/Crack maybe hard for you acquire, or you may not
at all desire to try either on their own or mixed with your Hydrocodone. But i c
an tell you, that being high on an opiate (usually Heroin for me) and taking a n
ice big crack hit is pretty much one of the most euphoric sensations I know of,
only sex and orgasm come to mind as something bette
Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Happy View Post
As everyone has pointed out that to increase ones actual euphoria, poten
taters and the like are not going to help out much, and so other "drugs" as in r
ecreational drugs by themselves can be used. Many mentioned other "downers" like
benzos and alcohol, but you should take it very easy with those as it can reall
y upset the stomach and make you nauseous (alcohol in particular) or become fata
l (both) due to respiratory depression.
I however would like to mention mixing in some Cocaine or Crack. And thi
s is not at all meant as a judgment but seeing as you are posting specifically a
bout Hydrocodones this leads me to believe you may be a little less experienced
with drugs in general, Cocaine/Crack maybe hard for you acquire, or you may not
at all desire to try either on their own or mixed with your Hydrocodone. But i c
an tell you, that being high on an opiate (usually Heroin for me) and taking a n
ice big crack hit is pretty much one of the most euphoric sensations I know of,
only sex and orgasm come to mind as something better.
This IS the holy grail of potentiations. It's all downhill from here...

Phenibut, Gabapentin, Etizolam (or other Benzo type drug) Damiana, Hydro
xyzine.

dlpa, l-tyrosine (dopamine precursors)

magneisum maleate, zinc picolinate (nmda antagonists, potentiators)
dxm, k, mxe (nmda antagonists)
protein (amino acids)
I think people highly underestimate a proper diet when trying to potenti
ate opiates. If you eat a high protein diet, your highs are going to be a lot be
tter because your body has more stores of amino acids.
Quote Originally Posted by Tear-One View Post
2mg dilauded crushed mixed with "1 line" of cocaine. Much stronger than
either one by itself.
Interesting... the first time I consumed either of these chemicals was i
n combination. Now all I need to do is remember the experience
25-75 mg Diphenhydramine has been my choice for opioid potentiation.

What do people think about the potentiating/synergising effect methoxeta

mine seems to have on opiates? From my experience, you don't need very much at a
ll (I'm talking 10-20mg dosages for a relatively MXE tolerant person) to be nodd
ing heavily off a mid-range dose of opiate (for example 10mg of MXE had me noddi
ng (really fucking heavily) off 60mg of o-dt).
Pretty nifty stuff.
[sigline][/sigline]Zero Opinion First Opinion [B][URL="http://www.blueli
ght.org/vb/forums/57-Second-Opinion"]Second Opinion[/URL][/B] Third Opinion Four
th Opinion

Quote Originally Posted by JSPete View Post

What do people think about the potentiating/synergising effect methoxeta
mine seems to have on opiates? From my experience, you don't need very much at a
ll (I'm talking 10-20mg dosages for a relatively MXE tolerant person) to be nodd
ing heavily off a mid-range dose of opiate (for example 10mg of MXE had me noddi
ng (really fucking heavily) off 60mg of o-dt).
Pretty nifty stuff.
I haven't tried MXE, nor do I have any real interest in doing so. I have
tried ketamine though.
Qu
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
I haven't tried MXE, nor do I have any real interest in doing so. I have
tried ketamine though.
Is ketamine a potentiator as well?
[sigline][/sigline]Zero Opinion First Opinion [B][URL="http://www.blueli

ght.org/vb/forums/57-Second-Opinion"]Second Opinion[/URL][/B] Third Opinion Four

th Opinion

Quote Originally Posted by JSPete View Post

Is ketamine a potentiator as well?
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/5...=1#post8955179
NMDA Antagnoists #1
Of course Pete. I'd assume MXE potentiates in the same way of course jus
t a different chemical antagonizing NMDA receptors.
Ketamine has always been very interesting for me, amazingly potent for p
sychedelic effects.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
I haven't tried MXE, nor do I have any real interest in doing so. I have
tried ketamine though.
Ya not really missing much, imho. For me MXE felt like a "dirty/syntheti
c/non-natural" version of Ket.
I really feel like cannabis is the BEST potentiator, at least for me. It
also seems (is) a much safer combination of drugs to be using at a time (safer
than, for example - a bbenzodiazapine). If I smoke weed after I do some H, or ox
y, or dilaudid (you get the picture) I am NODDING like a m*therf*cker.
That all being said, xanax also seems to work very very well (for me). I
do not recommend combining opioids with xanax (or other benzos): esp without ex
perience with both substance on their own, and/or a decent tolerance to each. It
is quite nice, though.
H + some dank weed + 1mg xanax = loveliness.
Quote Originally Posted by JSPete View Post
What do people think about the potentiating/synergising effect methoxeta
mine seems to have on opiates? From my experience, you don't need very much at a
ll (I'm talking 10-20mg dosages for a relatively MXE tolerant person) to be nodd
ing heavily off a mid-range dose of opiate (for example 10mg of MXE had me noddi
ng (really fucking heavily) off 60mg of o-dt).
Pretty nifty stuff.
That combo is the fucking beez, and MXE in itself has easily taken me ou
t of opiod withdrawals more than once.
If you're not down for tripping (at all), I guess you could always go wi
th tiltamine and narcotics. This can't be even close to safe to do, and correct
me if I'm wrong.

you guys really got to try pure nigella sativa (black seed) oil. I am ab
le to drastically reduce my opiate dosages when I use this. Yesterday, I had to
go home from work because the 2mg of sub i usually take was making me unable to
stand up straight and I was borderline puking. It was THAT strong. my pupils wer
e like a pinhole.

Interesting...I've never heard of black seed oil...

After reading this thread I'll try a mix that seems to work for a lot of
people. I'm on 70mg of methadone and the only time I've really nodded hard was
when I took about 210 or 280. I have a huge tolerance. I don't feel much after t
aking a dose of 200mg of oxycotin with 3 klonopins. And no they were not fake. I
didn't buy them from anyone.
So I'm going to try 600-800mg of dxm, about 60mg of dyphenhydramine, and
about 600mg of tagament. And maybe some tums and 3mg of klonopin. With someone
with a tolerance like mine, does this seem like it'll make me nod hard?

Hey cocksucker, (lol) you know to take the tagamet ~15-20 minutes prior
to dosing the oxy and clonazepam right? Also, adding white grapefruit juice to t
hat would actually help. Cimetidine doesn't do it all by itself. I'd have to loo
k up the specifics, but GP juice hits the CYP450 harder IIRC and cimetidine hits
both GABA-A & B more efficiently. I think GP juice hits one of the those two (A
or B) even harder than the other.

Well I heard to take it 30-45mins. And I'm not trying to potentiate oxys
, my deal is with methadone.
Today I can only afford tagament, dyphenhydramine and GFJ. But I also ha
ve omeprazole 40mg (prilosec). It's a proton pump inhibitor.

CocksuckerNJ(LOL) elavil and methadone both prolong the qt interval, thi

s can cause an arrhythmia called torsades de pointes, which is often fatal.

Quote Originally Posted by woamotive View Post

....cannabis is the BEST potentiator, at least for me. It also seems (is
) a much safer combination of drugs....
I'd agree with this - there's no drug interactions on a pharmacological
level. So other then potentiating by way of being "depressants" (although tbh I
don't think you'd really call cannabis a depressant!), I would say it's safe.
Imo (and I'm going just on personal experience and cannabis would be my
least DOC) I reckon any potentiating effects would be due to the way THC/cannabi
s(noids) seem to enhance what one is feeling - ya feel like ya nodding and eupho
ric, it'll enhance it.
Thoughts?
Best opiate potentiator I've ever tried would be Tramadol! (second being
DXM and excluding other opiates [yeah I know is an opioid, but I'm not counting
that since I've found Tramadol's analgesic efficacy to be terrible] ).
Most of the other suggestions are (I've found) generally rather weak CYP
450 (specifically CYP2D6 being the most active enzyme) effectors (obviously gene
ralising here. referring to the most common opiates & their metabolisers - codei
ne, oxycodone, morphine, etc )

Quote Originally Posted by DexterMeth View Post

.....adding white grapefruit juice to that would actually help. Cimetidi
ne doesn't do it all by itself. I'd have to look up the specifics, but GP juice
hits the CYP450 harder IIRC and cimetidine hits both GABA-A & B more efficiently
....
Umm, not quite for either actually
Firstly the Grape Fruit juice, even on BL you'll get many varying opinio
ns as to whether this works. True the theory goes that it is broken down via the
CYP450 pathway - to what extent or even whether this is 100% is (afaik from pap
ers/forums/people I've read) still very much up for debate! Secondly, CYP2D6 nor
Grape Fruit Juice touches in anyway GABA.
With Cimetidine, clearly depending on how indepth you want to go, but as
a drug it actually has a few MOA - predominately being an antihistamine (specif
ically an H2-receptor antagonist) - however since it does have other MOA/effects
it is used (off-label of course lol) for other treatments.
Last edited by tyrael; 31-12-2011 at 16:53.
Quote Originally Posted by THC2LSD View Post
CocksuckerNJ(LOL) elavil and methadone both prolong the qt interval, thi
s can cause an arrhythmia called torsades de pointes, which is often fatal.
Ah, cheers for that THC2LSD, I did not know this so good to know! Its ge
nerally wouldn't effect most people though, right? Other then those on heart med
ication and/or taking drugs such as antiarrhythmic, beta/channel(K+/Na+) blocker
s, and the like drugs, or those which side-effects may interact?

Good read...

I have a lot of different potentiators on hand which should i use? I don

't want any of these if they will dull the effects of the euphoria
tagamet
k pins
alcohol
white grape juice
tramadol
muscle relaxer (not soma)
benadryl
is there any effect to eating while on oxy?
I have a question.
A we days ago I posted a thread about how I've been using large amounts
of Benadryl (200mg) for sleep and a rash that I've had. Now I've scheduled a doc
tors appointment for the rash part, and I'm thinking of switching to melatonin a
nd valerian root for the sleep issues.
But what I want to know is, will stopping the diphenhydramine produce so

me withdrawal symptoms from the 1mg of suboxone I take every day? I've searched
the web and have found conflicting reports as to whether diphenhydramine potenti
ates opioids, or just synergizes with them. If it potentiates, than I imagine th
at it's raised my tolerance to suboxone, and stopping the diphenhydramine will p
roduce mild withdrawal, as I get use to taking my dosage of suboxone without the
Benadryl at night.
I'm also assuming that potentiating opioids in effect raises tolerance,
but I could be wrong about that, because I've read that certain potentiators lik
e DXM might help curb tolerance, and st.johns wort actually revs up the metaboli
sm of buprenorphine
I find 3-4 350mg Soma's to do wonders potentiating Hydrocodone. I'll tak
e 10mg Hydrocodone (I get 180 a month for back surgery) and 3 or more somas and
i'm gone.

Why would you do a CWE on 2 pills lmao. You are going to end up with alm
ost no hydrocodone left. I agree CWE's are good but that is if you have a minimu
m of 10 pills or so.

Hello out there. I experimented the last few days with a recipe I found
online to boost my methadone. I take 10mgx4 a day for chronic pain. The recipe w
as;
600mg of Tagament 45 min before dose with a 100% White Grapefruit juice
and Tonic water cocktail.
35mg of DXM, 25mg of Benadryl, and 1 Alleve 35 minutes before dose
2 Extra stength Tums 20 minutes before dose
Then I took 20mg of my Methadone at once. Well, I didn't feel a darn thi
ng. I followed it to a T. Maybe it wasnt enough Methadone but I only have so muc
h cause I get stamped scripts from my pain Dr. I was dissapointed for sure. I he
ard so much about all of these things and this recipe seemed reasonable and safe
. I ssay screw it. Their is really not much you can do with Methadone. I guess i
ts just not engineered like that. I don't know. To me, its not worth mixing all
this crap for a maybe slight increase in euphoria. I hope this helps someone out
whos on Methadone. I know this is a harm reduction site and we are all curious
and want to learn more about whatever interests us. It probably works for some p
eople. Guess everyone is different. I weigh 270 lbs and have blood clots in my a
bdomen, groins, and thighs. It sucks and it hurts! 40mg just aint enough for the
pain but my Dr has raised it from 10mg a day really quick up to 40mg so I reall
y cant complain. Ill just do the best I can with what I got. I take Gabapentin 9
00mg a day. Doesnt do much of anything. Im also prescribed Hydroxyzine 50mg. It
usually makes me sleepy. Im gonna try taking 100mg tomorrow night with my done a
nd see what heppens. I hope this helped a little. If anyone has any cool ideas o
n methadone, let me know asap. Ya'll take care.
Last edited by closeau; 02-02-2012 at 18:19.
So, what is a potentiating medication? Does it actually potentiate the a
ction of the opioid, or when mixed with an opioid, these drugs will make opioids
perform better? In other words, it is because they are mixed, with different ef
fects on your CNS, not because a potentiating medication has some pharmacologica
l role in increasing the effects of opioids?

Well, in terms of how BL users use the word "potentiating" I've found th
ey use it in 2 lose meanings;
1. Potentiation on a pharmacological level. That is, the MOA of one drug
is the same/similar to that of another and basically the end resulting effects
are compounded. Eg, opiate + other depressants / marijuana.
2. Potentiation on again, a chemical level. However this time, more losi
ng coupled. That is, one drug (although not exhibiting the same effects), for so
me reason or another they still interact. Eg, opiates + white grapefruit juice.
I mentioned "lose meaning" since the strict definition isn't use here (f
or obvious reasons). So "potentiation" also includes increase in duration for ex
ample.
The above is very general. If the answer doesn't suffice I can go into m
ore details if needed. Also check out Captin.H's awesome thread for a break in d
rug classes.
Hope that sort of answers your question?

Edit: tbh I was going to write another definition which people use as "p
otentiation" but I've drawn a blank! If I remember I'll add it in.
Last edited by tyrael; 17-02-2012 at 14:29.

Hi tyrael, That is what I gathered actually. I can understand that Phene

rgan will "potentiate" opioids because of the hypnotic properties of Phenergan.
Likewise, I can see that Soma would potentiate opioids/benzos for the same reaso
n as well as a muscle relaxant compounded effect.
I guess I agree with the definition, it just isn't what I first thought
of. I thought that potentiating meant you were using other compounds to increase
the effect of the opioid itself, on its own merits, not because of a drug inter
action. Does that make sense?
Yep for sure! There's a class of drugs which do exactly that via somethi
ng called "allosteric regulation". Basically, it's an "effector molecule" which
binds to the active site and either increases ("positive modulation") or decreas
es ("negative modulation") the efficiency (via multiple, different ways) of the
ligand.

Diazepam is an agonist at the benzodiazepine regulatory site, and its an

tidote flumazenil is an antagonist.
Source : Wikipedia

Check out Benzodiazepine's MOA.

Quote Originally Posted by atlien3 View Post

milkshake from mcdonalds, just try it, trust me, eat one 30 minutes befo
re, let me know
roa???
Hey guys. Got some 30mg ABG morphinee sulfate ER's. I am a bit tolerant.
I swallowed and chewed up 5 last night with about 2 mg kpin... not much
of a feeling, can tell i was on opiates, but barely.
This morning i took cimitidine (targamet) 30 min before and took my .5 k
pin along with another 30mg and i didnt feel it right away or anything, but then
i was soo much higher than last night.
Am i correct that cimitidine could do this to morphine ER tablets... and
does anyone know how to change them into IR style... ( like whats the best bang
for your buck ROA, cause with cimitidine it was good i believe) THANKS!

Quote Originally Posted by Atlien3 View Post

Milkshake from Mcdonalds, just try it, trust me, eat one 30 minutes befo
re, let me know
Cow Puke...WhodaThunk ???

anyone on the cimitidine and morphine sulfate ER intereaction...

Edit: Hehe, nvm, I thought Sturdychinfilms' post (below) was questioning
what ROA meant. I'll leave the below here anyway, someone will find it useful I
'm sure

Quote Originally Posted by sturdychinfilms View Post

Roa?
Route Of Administration.
Basically means by which path the substance gets into the body;
- Sublingual (subling / SL) - under the tongue
- Buccual - on the inside of the cheek
- Intra-nasual (IN) - in the nose
- Intra-ventrical (IV) - in the vains
- Intra-muscual (IM) - into the muscle
- Intra-rectally (IR) - up into the rectum
- Sub-cutaneous (sub-cut / SC) - injected into the sub-cataneous layer o
f the skin (less common or hardly ever used recreationally)
These are the most common ROA's (there are more).

Quote Originally Posted by blazelate View Post

anyone on the cimitidine and morphine sulfate ER intereaction...
Taking cimetidine before morphine should decrease the rate at which the
morphine is eliminated, therefore extending the duration of the effects.
i've got some diphenhydramine hydrochloride 50mg tablets, i gather i sho
uld take them 30-45min before injecting, but how many? just one?

yeah
take
then do your
Have

i would say one or two would work (no more than that tho)
them and when you feel them "kick in" (you'll get slightly drowsy)
shot..
fun. Be safe!

Quote Originally Posted by i against i View Post

i've got some diphenhydramine hydrochloride 50mg tablets, i gather i sho
uld take them 30-45min before injecting, but how many? just one?
HOOD's spot on, but I'd like to elaborate
you can take them anytime really up to injection (or even right after).
most people don't like more than 50mg, although some like me dig more 100-150mg.
does diphen affect you strongly/make you overly sedated? if so, probably
want to stick to 50mg-<100mg. If not feel free to experiment. Most people find
the diphen overpowers the opioid of choice at and over 100mg. but like I said th
ere is always the freak such as myself who like 100mg+.
regarding tagamet - I find that it increased the intensity of the peak/h
igh more so than actually extending the over all effects. But it might just be s
ubjective, as maybe it is making my suboxone's peak (normally short) seem more i
ntense by stretching it out a bit.

thanks peeps, i took one about ten mins before (fuck waiting!), tbh have
n't really noticed any difference, new batch as well so no comparison.
don't know diphen's solo effects, never used before, but sleeping pills
(seroquel, zopiclone, temazepam) that i've used never really seemed to do much.
except total blackout at high doses

when it kicks in you should get more of a noddy feel to your high.. is i
t a good new batch that you got?

it's average, not much legs.

lost my supplier of dihydrocodeine, not good. i fucking love that opiate

!
still got a shit load of tramadol (both immediate and extended release)
and i'm one of the few people who find it euphoric.
hope i can get a new supplier for dihydrocodeine though...

codeine and DHC never really seem to do anything for me beyond a mild mi
ld mild warmth. but then again i've only tried them after using h, but even say,
2/3 weeks with no opiates still barely anything.
different strokes for different folks. could have something to do with h
ow much you use too, but for one I do not like codeine. the high neither lasts l
ong enough nor is powerful enough for my tastes. and for some reason codeine w/d
has been significantly for me worse than heroin w/ds (longer).
Out of all the potentiators Captian H listed which single drug do you th
ink potentiates opiates ( Particularly Oxycodone ) the best and strongest.
ime clonidine (but I he didn't post that)... come to think of it, I don'
t know what something like tagamet isn't up there is that list...

My typical opiate of choice is Hydrocodone, which I use recreationaly ab

out once a week. I have tried many different methods of potentiation, and have t
hus far found nothing that is truly effective in increasing the positive effects
of the opiate.
Grapefruit juice: I have tried this on multiple occasions and have found
it to make my high very uncomfortable. I would drink half a bottle (of the simp
ly grapefruit) and my friend would do the same. We both reported the same effect
s every time we did this. I don't really know how to explain it other than it ma
de me feel uncomfortable. Gave me an odd head feeling and did not increase eupho
ria what-so-ever. Perhaps someone else has had similar effects?
Promethazine: Just makes me really sleepy - no increase in positive effe
cts. Does help with nausea and itching, however.
Benzo's: IMO they cloud the opiate experience for me. There is no synerg
y between the two, I just feel spaced out and high.
Alcohol: Never tried it. Not a fan of mixing acetaminophen and alcohol.
Doesn't seem like it would do much other than cloud the high like benzos.
Weed: Is great for when I am on the "after high". Amazing synergy but on
ly if consumed whilst coming down.
Diphenhydramine: Didn't really notice anything other than increased slee
piness (which I assume many try and pass off as potentiation) and decreased itch
ing.
Never tried Dramamine or DXM, both of which sound pretty awful... especi
ally DXM.

IME the best method of potentiation has been an empty stomach, breaking
pills in half, and of course a week break. Does anyone have any insight on this?
In your opinion is there anything worth while?

Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic man View Post

My typical opiate of choice is Hydrocodone, which I use recreationaly ab
out once a week. I have tried many different methods of potentiation, and have t
hus far found nothing that is truly effective in increasing the positive effects
of the opiate.
Grapefruit juice: I have tried this on multiple occasions and have found
it to make my high very uncomfortable. I would drink half a bottle (of the simp
ly grapefruit) and my friend would do the same. We both reported the same effect
s every time we did this. I don't really know how to explain it other than it ma
de me feel uncomfortable. Gave me an odd head feeling and did not increase eupho
ria what-so-ever. Perhaps someone else has had similar effects?
Promethazine: Just makes me really sleepy - no increase in positive effe
cts. Does help with nausea and itching, however.
Benzo's: IMO they cloud the opiate experience for me. There is no synerg
y between the two, I just feel spaced out and high.
Alcohol: Never tried it. Not a fan of mixing acetaminophen and alcohol.
Doesn't seem like it would do much other than cloud the high like benzos.
Weed: Is great for when I am on the "after high". Amazing synergy but on
ly if consumed whilst coming down.
Diphenhydramine: Didn't really notice anything other than increased slee
piness (which I assume many try and pass off as potentiation) and decreased itch
ing.
Never tried Dramamine or DXM, both of which sound pretty awful... especi
ally DXM.
IME the best method of potentiation has been an empty stomach, breaking
pills in half, and of course a week break. Does anyone have any insight on this?
In your opinion is there anything worth while?
Out of all those, weed is the only one that worked for me...and trust me
bro i tried everything to make those little pills work better. I wasnt a big fa
n of weed..so I just jumped strait to the hard stuff..which i do not suggest doi
ng..ever
Alcohol induces the cyp2d6 enzyme that metabolizes codeine to morphine i
n the liver , I'm not sure what opiates your talking about but promethazine inhi
bits this enzyme so it makes it convert less , DXM also induces cyp2d6 so u shou
ld give that one a crack , same with alcohol (30-60mg DXM max , a drink or two h
alf an hour before , and another half an hour after) anyone correct me if I'm wr
ong about any of this .
Quote Originally Posted by PeacePipeChief View Post
Alcohol induces the cyp2d6 enzyme that metabolizes codeine to morphine i
n the liver , I'm not sure what opiates your talking about but promethazine inhi
bits this enzyme so it makes it convert less , DXM also induces cyp2d6 so u shou
ld give that one a crack , same with alcohol (30-60mg DXM max , a drink or two h
alf an hour before , and another half an hour after) anyone correct me if I'm wr

ong about any of this .

Can you describe how they potentiate the opiate? Meaning, how do the mak
e the feeling feel any different? I'm crossing my fingers for "more euphoria".

-Edit, Sorry it's so long, Didn't realize how much I was rambling on, th
is is just my experience in the past, take it for what its worth, be safe, messa
ge me if you have any questions, Ill do my best to help/answer. I believe we already have a thread for this.
I used opiates for about 6 years. So, I've tried everything.
I realized overtime, that most of it is nonsense and really doesn't make
much of a difference when thinking of euphoria.
When mixing opiates, I found that most of the things I felt were a 'syne
rgy' with the opiates, and didn't help in terms of potentiation. (not a real wor
d I don't think)
Diphenhydramine made me drowsy, easily irritable, foggy, and the dry mou
th drove me crazy. Helped with the nod a tiny bit though
Promethazine made me foggy,tired. Helped with nausea a great deal, and s
lightly increased the nod.
As for grapefruit juice, well, it depends on what opiate you're doing. (
maybe, from my experience anyways.)
Morphine ,codeine, hydrocodone, all seemed to have a tiny bit of a boost
when drinking with grapefruit juice. (On Hydrocodone, I'd say when taking 60mg
with drinking grapefruit juice, it would feel like 65mg, nothing to rave about)
Alcohol, Well, I don't drink, I hate the taste, love the effect, but the
taste will literally make me puke before I even attempt to swallow, same with s
mell of some alcohols.
Benzodiazapines just increase the effects opiates have on the central ne
rvous system.
Benzos leave me feeling a little blah, I usually love the euphoria of op
iates, but when I take benzos, I would say I lose some of that euphoria, and end
up in a nod.
Dramamine was the same as diphenhydramine for me, not a whole lot going
on other that being drowsy.
DXM, I've had some pretty mixed results with. (I have to say I don't rem
ember very clearly, as most of my time experimenting with DXM and opiates, I was
at the worst point in my addiction, and don't remember things very clearly, as
I was under the influence of benzos,dxm,weed,opiates,and ambien on a daily basis
. Needless to say, between the Ambien,Benzos, and Weed, I don't remember much)
DXM does seem to do something with Opiates, though I've never been able
to point out exactly what that is.
I would notice that when I took DXM with Opiates, things seemed to kick
in a bit faster (I would dose dxm 45-90 minutes before I would take my opiates)
Seemed to make my body warmer than normal. It might have some effect, bu
t Im doubting its anything worth doing every time you take opiates.
To be completely honest, I've found the most effecient way of increasing
the effects opiates have on my by eating a meal or food loaded fats soon after
taking your opiate. That has always worked well for me.

I'd try natural alternatives before taking other drugs, to increase one
drugs effects.
If you can get a little boost out of drinking a tiny bit of grapefruit j
uice, taking opiates, eating a meal loaded with fat, more power to you.
But, I think , you will find, as most other people who have tried to inc
rease the effect of opiates, you can't really make it stronger with 'potentiator
s' , sure, you might be able to get a feeling of 5-10mg+, but, it really doesn't
seem to make enough of a difference to really be of any significance. Sorry I c
ouldn't help more.
I never used dxm to potentiate opiates. but mxe. and that works. bulletp
roof. a small dose of mxe and you should need less of your opi.
Nmda antagonists taken with an opi also keeps opi tolerance at bay.
For this purpose there was even a dxm/morphine product on the way. if it
wasnt a hoax.

vitamin E potentiates opiates i think, or it could be the opposite

Kalonji seeds (Nigella Sativa) broken down in a coffee grinder - boiling

water poured over & steeped will add to the effects.
The oil works even better (much more expensive) Middle Eastern, Asian fo
od stores are yer best bet, or can def' order online
but like everything, depending on how often you medicate, the potentiati
ng effects will pass, unless you stick to 1 to 3 times every couple of weeks...
To the OP:
For the most part inducing/inhibiting liver enzymes in regards to opiate
s is never going to make them stronger. You can't end up with more of an initial
drug. However, what it usually does it makes it last longer by preventing it fr
om being metabolized.
I always found cimitidine worked great for inhibiting CYp3a4 which helps
for clonazepam, suboxone, and methadone Great stuff. Not sure if cyp3a4 has a r
ole in the opiates the op is taking? Anyone/
Can doxylamine or diphenhydramine be plugged along with oxycodone? or wi
ll those AH's irritate the rectum?
I have a question, I currently take 75 mg down from 90 and have for a ye
ar and a half. I have a surplus of unused methadone in my fridge, I am wondering
if on days I feel like I need to get a buzz if I up my dosage by say 15 mgs, if
I will get buzz from it.

Is it safe/worthwhile to take Amitriptyline and or Promethazine/Diphenhy

dramine before taking Codeine or Dihydrocodeine?
I read many mixed reports.... Especially regarding Diphenhydramine havin

g a negative effects with regards to potentiation of Codeine based Opoids (Codei

ne/Dihodrocodeine)
Although i read that they work as great potentiators when it comes to Ox
ycodone etc..
Also this Tagamet/Cimetidine, i have never seen nor have i ever asked fo
r in a pharmacy in the UK although im sure its available OTC im just unsure of t
he answers to the questions that the pharmacist will ask me? I guess they are fo
r heartburn?
Also is it safe/a good idea to take a low dose of Amitriptyline (20-30mg
) with any of these Opoids as a potentiator?
Thanks BL crew
I wanted to make this thread to share my own strategies and techniques f
or increasing the effects of opiates for those who take them orally. Most of thi
s pertains to oxycodone, as I have more experience with it than other opiates.
I'd like any feedback from people letting me know whether they agree or
disagree that these strategies/techniques areeffective.
1. Take your dose on a relatively empty stomach - after your pills disso
lve in your stomach, you don't want the opiate to get soaked up by food, otherwi
se it will take much longer for the opiate to enter your blood stream. Taking it
on an empty stomach also helps the opiate bypass your liver; the bulk of your d
ose will head from your stomach to your liver all at once, and your liver won't
be able to metabolize as much of it during first pass metabolism. If your opiate
gets absorbed by food in your stomach, the rate at which it heads to the liver
will be much slower, and the liver will metabolize more of it overall during fir
st pass metabolism. Also, drugs absorbed in the small intestine have to spend mu
ch more time passing through the liver than drugs absorbed in the stomach, so yo
u want as much of it absorbed while its in the stomach as possible. If the drug
ends up getting absorbed by food or diluted among the other contents of your sto
mach, a lot of your dose could end up traveling with food into the small intesti
ne.
2. Eat a small amount of fatty foods with your dose - Opiates are fat so
luble, and foods that are very high in fat (like butter for instance) will help
the opiate get absorbed by the blood vessels in your stomach. But, be careful no
t to eat too much food, as you don't want the food to end up absorbing the opiat
e as mentioned in Tip #1. I'd recommend something like a chunk of butter on 1/4
of a piece of toast, or a glass of 2% milk. But, make sure the food you're eatin
g is warm, and not cold - the reason for which I'll talk more about later.
The food will also help you by starting up your metabolism just a little
bit, and by getting your digestive system moving - this will help absorption. B
ut you don't want your metabolism to fire up too much, or else the opiate will l
eave your system sooner as well; so the trick is to aim for just the right amoun
t of food, and not too much.
This technique will help especially if the opiate/opioid has to be metab
olized into something else before it is centrally active. Opiates this applies t
o include codeine, tramadol, hydrocodone, and to an extent, oxycodone. With thes
e kinds of opiates, you want the liver to metabolize them into their centrally a
ctive metabolites -- so more food is recommended for potentiating these kinds of
opiates. However, you can still end up eating too much food, which will have th
e negative result mentioned in Tip #1.

3. Swallow your pills with warm water - the heat will increase bloodflow
to the stomach, and help the opiate enter your system sooner. Cold water will s
low down blood flow in the stomach, resulting in the opiate taking longer to ent
er the system.
______
Following these tips, oral adminstration can be just as effective if not
more effective than other methods of administration. Under the right circumstan
ces, oxycodone in particular can actually kick in sooner if taken orally instead
as opposed to being insufflated. Oxycodone's oral bioavailability is also much
higher than its insufflated bioavailability. So taking oxycodone orally can be s
uperior to snorting in every way: it lasts longer, the effects are stronger sinc
e more of it enters your system, and it kicks in just as fast if not faster.
Last edited by SpunkySkunk347; 24-06-2012 at 17:54.
There is already a pretty long thread on this and it is covered very wel
l. I will have a dig about.
DXM is something that you should Really consider if using opiates, both
for tolerance and dose reasons
This technique will help especially if the opiate/opioid has to be metab
olized into something else before it is centrally active. Opiates this applies t
o include codeine, tramadol, hydromorphone, and to an extent, oxycodone. With th
ese kinds of opiates, you want the liver to metabolize them into their centrally
active metabolites
Hydromorphone is quite active as it is. Cytochrome metabolism results in
glucuronidation at the 6-position, which would presumably render it inactive. I
think you meant hydrocodone

Quote Originally Posted by alkap555 View Post

Hydromorphone is quite active as it is. Cytochrome metabolism results in
glucuronidation at the 6-position, which would presumably render it inactive. I
think you meant hydrocodone
yeah I just caught that; I meant to put in hydrocodone, not hydromorphon
e, thanks for the clarification though.
What do you all think about using hot water to help increase blood flow
to the stomach?
Opioids aren't absorbed in the stomach, they are absorbed in the small i
ntestine.
Empty stomach and and a hot coffee work pretty well.

Quote Originally Posted by SpunkySkunk347 View Post

hydrocodone, and to an extent, oxycodone. With these kinds of opiates, y
ou want the liver to metabolize them into their centrally active metabolites -so more food is recommended for potentiating these kinds of opiates. However, yo
u can still end up eating too much food, which will have the negative result men
tioned in Tip #1.

Yeah this is good, I notice that a small snack before hydrocodone really
makes the high better, and definitely lasts longer.
Hydrocodone on a completely empty stomach makes for a really short high.
..
So a light snack before, and maybe something fatty right after taking it
, like bacon. Then you're good

Quote Originally Posted by enoughorangejuice? View Post

Can doxylamine or diphenhydramine be plugged along with oxycodone? or wi
ll those AH's irritate the rectum?
i wouldn't do it; I remember people saying that antihistamines have some
bizarre effects if taken any other way besides orally.
I once had to have diphenhydramine IVed in an ambulance, and it wasn't v
ery comfortable to say the least :P

So this is what I have done.

Took 1000mg cimetidine aprox. 1hr before dose
4 nite time medicine pills *ingredients per capsule*(15mg DXM/325mg acet
amenophen/6.25mg doxylamine) TOTAL:60mg dxm,1300mg acetaminophen,25mg doxy
and 100mg diphenhydramine..
then after my dose kicks in,I took 5mg diazepam(wudve taken more,but did
nt have more.
I guess my question is with all these in me,will the cimetidine raise th
e amount of any or all of these meds to a toxic or fatal amount?
OH..and my doc at the moment is 12mg hydromorphone...it is exalgo's in w
hich I cut the pill so i have just the white dilaudid part,and let it sit in wat
er until completely dissolved,and i use an eye dropper to snort the hydro.
The cimetidine doesnt raise serum levels of other substances; Cimetidine
specifically hinders a specific liver enzyme that our body uses to metabolize c
ertain opiates. Taking the cimetidine will just prolong the effects of the opioi
ds, not making them more powerful.
SO ..IM WONDERING WILL CIMETIDINE BE GOOD TO TAKE WITH HYDROMORPHONE TO
MAKE IT LAST LONGER??? i have heard by some that it is not a good choice for pot
entiating hydromorphone.i would like to get an answer soon if possible
Would Diphenhydramine potentiate Tramadol?
If so, how much should I take?

true 100% juice white grapfruit juice, about 300-500 ml ( 2 cups ) half
hour before
parachute
pop like 3 tums
smoke a bowl

end result is another world

Hello there i am new here, though i have been reading for years. I have
tried nearly every opiate potentation technique and have been rather dissapointe
d. In my opinion i believe i have came up with the best, though everyone is diff
erent.
About an hour before you dose your opiates take 400mg of tagamet, and 66
0mg of naproxen sodium (sold under the brand name aleve 220mg per pill)
Throughout the hour before you dose consume atleast a half liter of toni
c water containing quinine.
^ Have you tried DXM and diphenhydramine?
Also, it's worth noting that after naproxen you should restrain from dri
nking alcohol
i always find taking zimovane or lunesta as they are in the states works
a real treat. i get 7 a week of my doc and i always take them before i go up an
d score. im on 40 mls of methadone too. and i do b mangled lol.
Hello all,
Due to a few recent mistakes that led to premature subsequent opiate ses
sions, my opiate tolerance has climbed while the experience has declined. My fri
end came across a pretty complex potentiation formula which, had he not successf
ully tried it, would have seemed undesirable. My usual tolerance is 30 mg hyrdro
codone, it is now at 40 mg. It has been a week since my last session, I am plann
ing on following this method and taking only 30 mg.
Here is a link with detailed information on this method if anyone is int
erested: http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...d.php?t=305596.
Basically it consists of taking approximately 7 different potentiators a
t varying times before actually taking the opiate. Many of these I have seen bef
ore but never have I seen all 7 being taken together.
The formulation is as follows:
* T-45) 600mg Tagamet HB(Cimetidine HCl), a large glass of tonic water (
or another source of quinine), and a large glass of (white) Grapefruit juice, pr
eferably from concentrate.
* T-35) 30mg DXM HBr, 4mg CPM, 25mg Benadryl(Diphenhydramine HCl), 330mg
Naproxen(Aleve).
* T-20) 2 Tums OR 1.5 Tbsp. of Baking SODA. (Obviously this step only ap
plies if you are eating your opes)
* T-0) Parachute\chew\rail\bang your opiate\opioid.
Does anyone see any red flags or potential bad combinations I should kno
w about? Everything seems rather benign, but taking all these pills/OTC medicati
ons makes me nervous. My friend, as well as many others on the site he found it
on, swear this is the best way to potentiate opiates. I will be trying this toni
ght (unless someone warns me otherwise, of course) so I will report back and let

you guys know how it went. Do you guys think 30 mg is too low a dose for my 40
mg tolerance?
I'm sure I will receive the wrath of Tricomb for something, but I did se
arch before posting and I checked the massive potentiation threads and couldn't
find this specific method. Have mercy on my inquiry

Quote Originally Posted by amapola View Post

This may get shut down as we aren't here to help you get higher.
Serious? I thought that was the WHOLE point

That's out of context and an ancient post... Plus amapola is a fallen bl

uelighter... may he rest in peace.

Quote Originally Posted by

Just add Soma brand muscle
xants are good like Flexeril, that
ntiating pills you could take.
somas are a brand name for
muscle relaxent

TheLostBoys View Post

relaxants to any opiates. Not all muscle rela
stuff sucks. Soma imo is one of the best pote
a sedative type drug, commonly confused as a

^carisoprodol is a skeletal muscle relaxant.

There is an EXCELLENT opiate potentiator out there. I'm a daily user of

about 70-100 mg of hydrocodone a day and it works very well for me. Do a google
search for opiate potentiator by no warning. Even after 9 years of using and hig
h doses it still works for me. I highly recommend it.
There is an EXCELLENT opiate potentiator out there. I'm a daily user of
about 70-100 mg of hydrocodone a day and it works very well for me. Do a google
search for opiate potentiator by no warning. Even after 9 years of using and hig
h doses it still works for me. I highly recommend it.
I read it, interesting thanks for the info
I love using Soma's together with opiates, to me at least it is by far t
he best way to get the most bang for your buck when using opiates (especially if
you like a more "nodding" opiate high). I just took 8 Norco's an 4 Soma's and I
feel great....I wouldn't recommend taking that much of either unless you are to
lerant to both or else you could be really nodded out. If you have no tolerance
I would recommend 10-20mg of hydrocodone and maybe 1-2 350mg Soma's to start, th
at should do nicely. It's important to know your body and how much you can an ca
n't take cause it could be a potentially dangerous combination if you don't know
what your doing. Anyways thanks for taking the time out to make this awesome th
read and everyone have fun an be safe.
Just wanted to add that I've been on opiates for 3 plus years so my tole
rance is up there pretty good, I can take 300mg of opiates in a day and be just
fine, so my tolerance is up there. I take pills whether it be OC's, Oxycodone, H
ydrocodone, etc. I didn't use H and haven't had the pleasure of trying Fendynal,

hydromorphone, an Oxymorphone.
Mike
Last edited by ZombieAssassin; 30-10-2012 at 18:12.
i was just thinking about you amapola
Quick question. If you have already taken methadone say an hour ago, is
there anything you can take to potentate it since its already in your system? I
mean I've always taken stuff before to potenate it, Tagamet, quinine, DXM, tums,
etc. but what about after about an hour of taking the done?
Because of methadone's slow onset and long duration, I don't think there
is anything wrong with at least trying some potentiation techniques. I usually
take my methadone with tagamet and diphenhydramine but that has more to do with
when I take my IR Oxycodone (90+ minutes after taking my 10mg of methadone every
6-8 hours).
Be safe
Just used Kalonji seed oil, (or you can buy the seeds, thoroughly crush
about a cup & steep in barely simmering water) along w/ my prescribed 30 mg. (pe
r dose) oxycodone, It definately increased all beneficial aspects (analgesia, in
creased euphoria (warmth)...Beware of (naive) store owner trying to sell you bla
ck sesame or black cumin seed.
So if you taking a hydrocodone what is a better potenator Tramadol or cy
clobenzaprine??
Either is fine, but DO NOT take both tramadol and cyclobenzaprine. I was
accidentally prescribed both and had 2 seizures as a warning for either will sp
ecifically mention NOT TAKING THE OTHER.
So: a) Flexeril b) Tramadol
NOT both
I go for tramadol before flexeril, btw. The serotonin heavy tramadol has
always been a solid potentiator with typical opiates.

In the evening I typically take: 2) 10/325 Percocet, 1) 250mg Soma, 1) X

anax, and possibly a Zanaflex and EsgicPlus depending on my pain level and if I
have a pounding headache or not. If all but the Esgic is taken I get alot of rel
ief and at times a good sense of wellbeing. On major pain days I will add a 3rd
Perc and I feel pretty good. So, in my 5th year of working up to these drugs I c
an tell you that Soma is indeed a good companion to enhance Percocet, Zanaflex i
s excellent but I am very tolerant already after 6 months and despite what I hav
e read I see no effect on the action of Percocet from benzos. Benedryl used to h
elp, but does not any longer....does help my seasonal sinus issues tho. All of t
he above works better with a meal. (for me)
Be careful, I am 6' 2" and 200lbs and take thousands of these a year and
still, occassionally will take a nap during dinner after after taking my meds a

nd working 10 hours.....I cant imagine how much I would have to consume to get t
he "high" so many are chasing. I havent felt that sensation since starting Zanaf
lex and my breif use of Ametryptiline. (spelling?)
this grapefruit potentator info is interesting, as without knowing any o
f this have been glugging down big glasses of grapefruit juice (always white, ne
ver the pink stuff) before taking pain meds for years, does the human body insti
nctively crave potentators?
Quote Originally Posted by BiggDirty01 View Post
Either is fine, but DO NOT take both tramadol and cyclobenzaprine. I was
accidentally prescribed both and had 2 seizures as a warning for either will sp
ecifically mention NOT TAKING THE OTHER.
So: a) Flexeril b) Tramadol
NOT both
I go for tramadol before flexeril, btw. The serotonin heavy tramadol has
always been a solid potentiator with typical opiates.
Awesome my thinking exactly, and I do know about the interactions betwee
n Tramadol and cyclobenzaprine but its a big interaction so thanks for the heads
up.
Would Tessalon Perles 200mg work well for potenation of oxycodone or Tra
madol???
No.
I haven't read this gigantic thread, but I spent a while hooked on poppy
pod tea, but did everything in my power to potentiate. If anyone is curious, I
was able to keep my dose around the same for about 6 months of daily use with th
e following. Not sure how this works for other opines, but if I understand corre
ctly, it should work for most.
1 Benadryl, 2 if I'm feeling like I have weak tea or want to nod my face
off
4 15mg dxm tablets about 45 min before opiate intake. Supposedly stops t
olerance, seemed to work for me.
3 tablets of cimetidine, I don't think they come in multiple sizes. Anyw
ay, they need to be ingested 45 min prior.
440 mg of naproxen sodium (2 220mg pills). This is just alive, seems to
make a diff for me!
Lastly, depending on the day,I would use loperamide as well.anywhere fro
m 4 to 10 mg. that said I feel this increased tolerance since it is also an opia
te. Even though it doesn't cross the bbb, it makes a huge difference for me.

I experimented with all types of things over this week. I tried benzos,
benadryl, tagamet, weed, fatty foods, white grapefruit juice. I found the best o
ne was fatty foods. I ate a greasy burger 30 min before dosing and the oxy (neo,
swallowed) seemed way more intense. Any time i ate after that, it would boost t
he buzz again. Works surprisingly well. But of course, weed works very nicely as
well.
Longtime Lurker, First-time Poster! Love the site! :-D

I have read through this thread and the entire v.1 thread. I wanted to a
dd just a few things, specifically about DXM, loperamide, and d-phenylalanine.
Anyone who has robotripped knows that the onset can take quite some time
. DXM (dextromethorphan) sometimes takes roughly 3-4 hours to become fully effec
tive. It is my theory then that DXM should be taken 3-4 hours before taking your
opiate. Well, for me, it's a little more than theory. I've tried this, and I lo
ve it! I will take 60mgs of DXM 4 hours before taking my DOC (morphine ir, 45-90
mgs), and it helps me feel the effects of my DOC so much better! I am not a fan
of robotripping, and if you aren't either, keep your DXM intake to <100mgs, whic
h for many is the smallest threshold for 1st Plateau.
I have also used loperamide for "potentiation". Loperamide is the red he
aded step-child of the Demerol family and is not a centrally active opioid (not
without help, anyway). However, it still has some of the same side-effects as ot
her opiates like constipation, which is why loperamide is marketed as an antidia
rrheal (Imodium AD, etc.). These side-effects come from the loperamide attaching
to opiate sites in the gut, relaxing the smooth muscles of the gut and allowing
for more fluid absorption, reducing diarrhea.
Loperamide also has a long onset, about 3-4 hours, so that is when I tak
e it to "potentiate" my DOC. My theory behind this is that the loperamide, once
in the gut, attaches itself to the opiate receptors there, thus occupying them,
and allowing my DOC to be directed elsewhere in my body, including and especiall
y my brain.
P.S. Loperamide is good for w/d's. It won't get you high in the head, bu
t it'll work peripherally to help stop the w/d symptoms.
Lastly, I use d-phenylalanine (DPA). I've seen it mentioned once or twic
e, but there was not much fanfare for it at all. I sing it's praises!! D-phenyla
lanine has been shown to somehow inhibit the enzymes decarboxylase and enkaphala
nase(sp?), which indiscriminately metabolises endogenous and exogenous opiates.
When these enzymes are inhibited, your opiate will remain in your system for lon
ger. In some cases, MUCH longer.
I have been taking d-phenylalanine for many months now. DPA becomes more
effective the longer you take it, and can remain effective for several weeks af
ter discontinued use. It cannot be used to "potentiate" one-time doses; it must
be taken consistently for at least a couple weeks...which may be one reason that
contributes to it's lack of attention. However, when taken consistently, my DOC
lasts 50-100% longer. Morphine is a relatively short acting drug, and for me, i
t would last about 6-8 hours. After taking DPA on a regular basis, the same dose
now lasts 12 hours or more, and my peak lasts for 1-2 hours longer than before!
! I absolutely love my DPA! :-D
I should mention that it also helps with my lower (lumber/sacral) pain,
especially around my pelvis, even without opiates. DPA helps the body accumulate
natural endorphins, so it is effective even without extra opiates, tho that's n
o fun.
I hope I get to help someone with my personal experiences. Remember to k
eep it safe, and have fun! :-)
Ak Thunder,
So do you take D-phenylalanine supplements? Like from the vitamin sectio
n at the store? I looked this up and what an awesome find. What daily regime are
you taking?

I sometimes take DL-phenylalanine 1 g with 200 -300mg of tramadol and it

makes the high more euphoric and slightly more speedy in parts. Not sure what t
he pharmacology is on this though so if someone could explain it would love to k
now.
Xegh oooo nice to know I like trammies too!
I have rx's for morphine sulphate IR and hydrocodone as well as adderall
. I've been under the assumption that the adderall will potentiate the pain meds
but is this true? Thanks in advance!
Promethazine and opioids go very nice together. My favorite potentiator
atm

I have a question about Loperamide. I have heard for a long time that it
's good for wd's, but I am seeing more and more about using it to potentiate. As
we all know, opiate/opioid users have problems with constipation ...
Are there dangers when using as a potentiater? I'm SO backed up all the
time due to my long term use of fentanyl and oxycodone as is...I'm just wonderin
g how much lope would worsen the issue?
Thanks.

Quote Originally Posted by macd610 View Post

I have a question about Loperamide. I have heard for a long time that it
's good for wd's, but I am seeing more and more about using it to potentiate. As
we all know, opiate/opioid users have problems with constipation ...
Are there dangers when using as a potentiater? I'm SO backed up all the
time due to my long term use of fentanyl and oxycodone as is...I'm just wonderin
g how much lope would worsen the issue?
Thanks.
It seems for some the constipation from lope is worse than other opioids
but for me and many others the constipation is no worse than common opioids. Ma
ke sure to stay hydrated tho! Lope has been known to dehydrate like no other!

Is this the most current Potentiation Megathread? Hope so, looks current
, anywho...
Just a caveat to those looking to potentiate whatever opioid with Cimeti
dine AND DXM, beware the former potentiating the latter. It's not a big deal if
you're taking dosages of DXM that you wouldn't feel (45-90mg for a variety of pe
ople it would seem), however if you don't have a lot of experience with DXM I'd
tread lightly. Especially if you've never felt the dissociative effects/1st-3rd
plateaus.
I stumbled upon DXM while using it to detox from a dope habit a year plu
s ago. Maybe four months ago, in an attempt to detox from my bupe that I've been
taking since that previous kick, only for a little to enjoy a small stash of fu
ll agonists from the surgeries that ended my short mod career in OD ( ), anyways
I was down to .25-.5mg (approx) IM (yay to proper hygiene and no abscesses!) of
bupe (no naloxone) per day. I'd stabilized on that for a week or ten days. The
first day off took maybe 200-300mg DXM. Got high, was able to ignore physical an
d most of the psychological acute w/d symptoms. Day two took maybe 175-190mg DXM

. However, that afternoon I was jonesing and said fuck it... 400mg Cimetidine 30
minutes prior to taking 25mg hydromorph IM. As soon as I began to feel my nerve
s calm down from the opios, I was like, "Oh, shit... Why am I so fucked up right
now?" Felt like I drank 40 and took 20mg valium, but of course not that nice, j
ust the mental cloudiness such combo would bring.
Then I realized, back when I kicked my three year daily dope habit (just
under a decade of regular but not necessarily dependent opioid use) was when I
originally discovered Cimetidine. Of course it wasn't for potentiating opiois at
that time, but the DXM (after five or so days of 2nd-3th plateau trips DXM tend
s to lose it's magic for many, especially considering I had been taking Piraceta
m for months). Doesn't work for very long, but I remember the huge grin that spr
ead across my face the first time I used 400-600mg to potentiate a 2nd plateau t
rip.
Right, Cimetidine potentiates DXM, not to mention a lot of other substan
ces as well. So moral of the story, unless you are intending to get fucked up fr
om DXM and your Opios, be careful how much DXM/Cimetidine you take to potentiate
. I personally find the effects of even a 1st plateau dose of DXM ruins any opio
id (that is to say, I get fucked up and dissociated just enough from say, 100-12
0mg of DXM, to be much less able to notice let alone enjoy the subjective effect
s of a good opioid buzz).
When EVER you want to use Tagamet/Cimetidine to potentiate ANY opioid or
other drug cocktail for the first time, for the sake of the HR fairies, make su
re you first check out this Awesome CYP-450 Chart! that soundphaRm posted back i
n '05.
You never know, I mean unless you already do, how something like Cimetid
ine will affect other chemicals in your body. I mean, even unexpected interactio
ns/contradictions aside, using something like Cimetidine to potentiate opioids/w
hatever isn't as simple as it will potentiate your DOC's buzz or not. How such i
nteractions can effect you is, in other words, anything but self evident. As the
following quote illustrates it's a bit more complex than that:
Quote Originally Posted by allegator View Post
Approximately 60% of hydrocodone is metabolized via CYP2D6 to hydromorph
one and CYP3A4 to norhydrocodone. Cimetidine will inhibit both and while hydroco
done itself has some activity, it is probably not something you want to do. Use
this chart http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/1...-CYP-450-Chart! and take somet
hing that inhibits CYP3A4 (like grapefruit juice) and something that induces CYP
2D6 (only one I know off the top of my head is a shot of booze) to get the best
results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884456/
You could also delve deeper into the research for the 40% that isn't P45
0 and see if you could inhibit that with additional competing substrates at what
ever the phase II mechanism is.

^ great post.
When I saw the length, I thought it would be rambly but it was a good st
ory and very well-written. It's nice to see you posting around here. I hope you'
re doing well!
Quote Originally Posted by macd610 View Post
I have a question about Loperamide. I have heard for a long time that it

's good for wd's, but I am seeing more and more about using it to potentiate. As
we all know, opiate/opioid users have problems with constipation ...
Are there dangers when using as a potentiater? I'm SO backed up all the
time due to my long term use of fentanyl and oxycodone as is...I'm just wonderin
g how much lope would worsen the issue?
Thanks.
Loperamide certainly produces a far greater a ratio of constipation:cent
ral opioid effects than most other opioids which is why it is still sold OTC. Wh
at are you doing/taking to offset the constipation right now? Obviously fluid in
take combined with a high fiber diet is essential but alone is often insufficien
t and CAN even exacerbate the problem; fiber bulks up your fecal matter and when
the opioids are sucking all the water out of it, you are just getting larger ro
ck-solid pieces you need to push out. In severe cases, high fiber intake in opio
id users can increase the likelihood of bowel impaction.
It is really important for anyone using opioids regularly - whether recr
eationally or therapeutically - to be using stool softeners and/or laxatives (pr
eferably gentle laxatives). When I was prescribed daily opioid doses for chronic
pain, I was using Senna-S which is a combination of the gentle laxative sennosi
des and the stool softener docusate sodium so it's a great medication that be ta
ken daily and will help you be able to evacuate your bowels regularly but not un
comfortably force out brown water like many stronger stimulant laxatives do. It'
s also available OTC.
There is a novel new agent called methylnatrexone which is kind of like
the loperamide of antagonists - it only blocks the opioids effects peripherally
so when combined with agonists, prevents them from causing constipation without
reducing the analgesia, euphoria, etc. I'm hoping more combination drugs will co
me out that utilize this or more physicians prescribe it concomitantly for pain
patients.

Quote Originally Posted by Lynx2525 View Post

I've been under the assumption that the adderall will potentiate the pai
n meds but is this true? Thanks in advance!
Short answer: No. Long answer: Strictly speaking, still no, although the
effects of the adderall will probably compliment the opioids increasing your ov
erall buzz/high, although technically the amps aren't "potentiating" the opioids
.
Lastly, I use d-phenylalanine (DPA). I've seen it mentioned once or twic
e, but there was not much fanfare for it at all. I sing it's praises!! D-phenyla
lanine has been shown to somehow inhibit the enzymes decarboxylase and enkaphala
nase(sp?), which indiscriminately metabolises endogenous and exogenous opiates.
When these enzymes are inhibited, your opiate will remain in your system for lon
ger. In some cases, MUCH longer.
I have been taking d-phenylalanine for many months now. DPA becomes more
effective the longer you take it, and can remain effective for several weeks af
ter discontinued use. It cannot be used to "potentiate" one-time doses; it must
be taken consistently for at least a couple weeks...which may be one reason that
contributes to it's lack of attention. However, when taken consistently, my DOC
lasts 50-100% longer. Morphine is a relatively short acting drug, and for me, i
t would last about 6-8 hours. After taking DPA on a regular basis, the same dose
now lasts 12 hours or more, and my peak lasts for 1-2 hours longer than before!
! I absolutely love my DPA! :-D
I should mention that it also helps with my lower (lumber/sacral) pain,
especially around my pelvis, even without opiates. DPA helps the body accumulate
natural endorphins, so it is effective even without extra opiates, tho that's n
o fun.

I've only been on it for like a week, but I've found dlpa (1000mg, 50:50
d/l, on an empty stomach, with b complex, and two glasses of water) to work wel
l for my depression. I can't imagine it's not anything but related largely to my
opioid ways, as I've been forced to cut way back the last two months and am hav
ing to find alternatives (hell, like there really are any when it comes to how w
ell they've worked for me). That said, exercise, this dlpa combo, seems to have
made a big diff. I've heard lots of good and bad things from people about DLPA,
from all sorts of people, with all sorts (or lack there) of habits, but given lo
w cost in the US I'd highly recommend it if you're into supplements/working out.
I do, however, refuse to take it with any kind of stim stronger than a cup or t
wo of coffee (i.e. taking it an hour before 30mg of dextroamp was not one of my
brightest).
Quote Originally Posted by Cane2theLeft View Post
When I saw the length, I thought it would be rambly but it was a good st
ory and very well-written. It's nice to see you posting around here. I hope you'
re doing well!
...
There is a novel new agent called methylnatrexone which is kind of like
the loperamide of antagonists - it only blocks the opioids effects peripherally
so when combined with agonists, prevents them from causing constipation without
reducing the analgesia, euphoria, etc. I'm hoping more combination drugs will co
me out that utilize this or more physicians prescribe it concomitantly for pain
patients.
Thanks! Lots of ups and downs but even though I've been depressed a lot
the last couple months I really have little to complain about other than being p
oor-as-shit (I mean, really, who doesn't enjoy working as an actuary ). Lol I kn
ow, I haven't touched my stash of dextroamp today, so while I'm not too succinct
, as always, at least I'm on topic (kinda ).
This methylantrexone sounds very, very interesting. On the one hand, I'm
so glad my days of heavy lope use are gone (even if there were only four or fiv
e of them spread out over months). On the other hand, I have to keep in mind, de
spite some really negative side effects, moderate to high dosages of lope can re
ally make a difference in w/d. I just hated how dehydrated it made me, that and
the slight stimulation. But primarily the dehydration (no matter what I drank, w
hat lotion I used, that sucked).
Serious constipation was never an issue for me with lope, even taking up
ward of 180mg. BUT I had a serious habit at the time, so it I hadn't been on it
I know I would have been pissing out my ass (for like a month if not longer, had
I not resumed my habit). So if you're that bad, it's not necessarily a huge dan
ger. Still though, something to move things along throughout the bowels is a rea
lly sound idea. For some reason I have never had much luck with common laxatives
(of the stimulant variety primarily), but Polyethylene Glycol 3350 has worked w
ell in conjunction with really constipating opioids. Actually, the worst one of
those for me is bupe, especially when I end up taking 12-16mg/day (rare) followi
ng a serious two-three week dope binge, especially when I take that bupe for con
secutive days. Last time, I cringe at the memory, is one of two times I literall
y had to stick my fingers into my ass to pull out the shit (literally). I was ac
tually amazed at how hard that shit was in there, pun intended. Rock hard. Like
granite.
I have found one particular post on opioiphile rather relevant to this d
iscussion, at least about how to properly use the lope for w/d: http://forum.opi
ophile.org/showthrea...l=1#post496524
Honestly though, are people talking about using lope for potentiating? I

could see that, at mid-high dosages, if I had been clean for a week or two. But
other than that one situation (in which seeds would work a lot better anyways),
naw.
This methylnatrexone does sound very cool though - the possibility that
I won't have to deal with constipation for the rest of my life and actually get
a chance to address my ibs sooner than later would be much appreciated. Plus I c
an think of a chipper or two who would love not being unable to shit for a week
after using a little dope for two days. Research time...
Note: Oops, I said I don't do well with stim laxatives then I tell you a
ll how Polyethylene Glycol 3350 works well for me... hehe, it's early. That's th
e one exception I've found to that rule (or I hadn't been taking enough on earli
er attempts).
Cane, what's the proper guidelines for taking stim laxatives? Frequency,
dosages, etc. Drinking enough water also would seem to be key, something I don'
t think I really did on my first attempts. I'm sure it varies from person to per
son, from habit to habit, but generally speaking, what have you found to work we
ll? Funny I've never really pursued learning more about laxatives given my hobbi
es
Last edited by toothpastedog; 05-02-2013 at 09:55. Reason: Had to make i
t LONGER!
I've read through both versions of the mega potentiators threads. I'm no
t asking for help to get higher, more like an opinion or suggestion.
My tolerance is moderate. I haven't used any drugs in the last 5-6 days.
I have one oxy 40mg XR, one .5 mg Xanax, a bottle of 100% ruby red grape
fruit juice, two honey buns with high fat content (41g) , aleve, tums, benadryl
and thinking of grabbing some tagament.
So my question is, if you had this combo at hand, which would you use, i
n what chronological order and what mg of each?
Dude Jesus Christ..... Oxy has 80-90% absorption rates in your stomach a
lready, not any reason to be stuffing your face with "honey buns". The more food
in your tummy, the less effective oxy (or any drug) will be. Sure fat helps a l
ittle, but as in eating like a single piece of bacon or something.
You have a fat list of stupid potentiators. You only need one. White gra
pefruit juice. Ruby will work, but much less concentrated. White grapefruit juic
e. That is it. Tagamet comes second in terms of usefulness, but if you have the
WGFJ you don't need it
Just drink 1/3 of the WGFJ about 15 minutes before taking oxy. They will
be much more powerful and last longer. You can continue sipping the juice as lo
ng as you want, or don't. Be careful, this will make the oxy more powerful, take
less than you normally would
The only thing you have thats going to significantly potentiate the oxy
is the Xanax. As mentioned above you need white grapefruit. IMO ruby red is wort
hless. Aslo, dont bother wiith Tagamet. Besides inhibiting CYP3A4, cimetidine al
so inhibits CYP2D6, which is responsible for converting about 15% (i think) of y
our oxycodone dose to oxymorphone.

Wgfj works well. Tagamet worked well for me. Dxm (in the recommended dos
e) is a nice synergizer, and certainly lowered my tolerance, however briefly. Go
od luck.
Meh, I always found the potentiation from eynzyme inhibitors negligible
but some people swear by it. Only things that work for me are alcohol, benzos, a
ntihistamines and of course more opioids.
Quote Originally Posted by Dagda Mochta View Post
Meh, I always found the potentiation from eynzyme inhibitors negligible
but some people swear by it. Only things that work for me are alcohol, benzos, a
ntihistamines and of course more opioids.
I don't think the enzyme potentiators got me higher, but I definitely fe
lt the effects for longer than usual. The bonus of this is not having to redose
as soon. More opes is obviously the most effective, but not necessarily the safe
st. I keep a log, so I have some data in terms of what I've taken when.
Quote Originally Posted by twotoomany View Post
More opes is obviously the most effective, but not necessarily the safes
t.
I disagree. If you're looking for increased effects I think its safer to
take a larger dose than to start mixing drugs and fucking around with your enzy
mes.
For the ope experienced, with a decent supply line, I agree whole hearte
dly. I guess I just don't know where this guy is coming from. His "moderate tole
rance" may be nil, or he may be able to handle a huge dose. Either way, it sound
s like he has just the one 40.
Incidentally, this is why I like this site. We can disagree, but still h
ave reasonable discourse on the topic!
Quote Originally Posted by RedRum OG View Post
Dude Jesus Christ..... Oxy has 80-90% absorption rates in your stomach a
lready, not any reason to be stuffing your face with "honey buns". The more food
in your tummy, the less effective oxy (or any drug) will be. Sure fat helps a l
ittle, but as in eating like a single piece of bacon or something.
You have a fat list of stupid potentiators. You only need one. White gra
pefruit juice. Ruby will work, but much less concentrated. White grapefruit juic
e. That is it. Tagamet comes second in terms of usefulness, but if you have the
WGFJ you don't need it
Just drink 1/3 of the WGFJ about 15 minutes before taking oxy. They will
be much more powerful and last longer. You can continue sipping the juice as lo
ng as you want, or don't. Be careful, this will make the oxy more powerful, take
less than you normally would
Holy shit, I am absolutely rolling in laughter. Eyes are watering. Don't
know Why, but this post just struck me as super funny (in a good way .
I love the part about the honey buns and the fat list of stupid potentia
tor comments.
OT, though.. I am on approximately 250mg/day and I have never found anyt
hing to really help to any noticeable degree.
I am confused about 1 thing... on all the literature that comes with pre

scriptions such as this, it tells you that eating will help reduce side effects.
Then on the other hand, I hear people speaking of taking in lots of fat to pote
ntiate?
Quote Originally Posted by macd610 View Post
I am confused about 1 thing... on all the literature that comes with pre
scriptions such as this, it tells you that eating will help reduce side effects.
Then on the other hand, I hear people speaking of taking in lots of fat to pote
ntiate?
A high fat meal supposedly increases peak plasma concentrations and the
rate of absorption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8901078
As for decreasing side effeects, its generally recommended to take anyth
ing that may cause nausea with a small amount of food.
Quote Originally Posted by Dagda Mochta View Post
A high fat meal supposedly increases peak plasma concentrations and the
rate of absorption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8901078
As for decreasing side effeects, its generally recommended to take anyth
ing that may cause nausea with a small amount of food.
Thanks for the link and the info, Dagda Mochta!
Cat
You're welcome.
This has been talked about a lot. Going to merge it with Opiate Potentia
tion Mega.
so does naltrexone potentiate it by clearing out the opiate receptors? I
thought it had a stronger binding-affinty compared to most (full-agonist) opiat
es?

OK so yes i know there are hundreds of vitamins and minerals out there b
ut now I will be a little more specific.
I am sure everyone knows those "Vitamin Water" bottles they sell at stor
es these days and my question is...say if you drank one of them before doing an
opiate, lets use oxycodone lol.
Would drinking it have any effect on your opiate high, negative or posit
ive ?, any slight potentiation...?
So to be even a little more specific this is what the bottles contain :
Vit A
Vit B3, B6, B12.
Pantothenic acid
Vitamin C
Lutein ( w.e the hell that is lol..)
So what do you guys think would this help in any way to increase the eff
ects, do nothing, or just weaken them.?
Would really appreciate if you guys can give me some answers, i really c
ouldnt find much else on this anywhere...

Thanks.
I'll merge this in with the opioid potentiation thread. Did you do a sea
rch? You didn't find anything, but did you look? This has absolutely been covere
d before.
I'd recommend you use pubmed to find articles that deal with specific vi
tamins.

Quote Originally Posted by EEhouseEE View Post

OK so yes i know there are hundreds of vitamins and minerals out there b
ut now I will be a little more specific.
I am sure everyone knows those "Vitamin Water" bottles they sell at stor
es these days and my question is...say if you drank one of them before doing an
opiate, lets use oxycodone lol.
Would drinking it have any effect on your opiate high, negative or posit
ive ?, any slight potentiation...?
So to be even a little more specific this is what the bottles contain :
Vit A
Vit B3, B6, B12.
Pantothenic acid
Vitamin C
Lutein ( w.e the hell that is lol..)
So what do you guys think would this help in any way to increase the eff
ects, do nothing, or just weaken them.?
Would really appreciate if you guys can give me some answers, i really c
ouldnt find much else on this anywhere...
Thanks.
For Vitamin Water it would do nothing or even slow the absorption, becau
se opioids like to have a more alkaline stomach and Vit C etc is acidic. In my e
xperience Vitamin Water does not seem to have any perceptible effect on opioids
though.

If you're super determined to find a way to take the 2 hydro condone you
have a limited number of options.
1. Oral
2. Snort/shoot (good luck with the massive quantity of powder)
3. UP DA BUTT

Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalFeelings View Post

Ak Thunder,
So do you take D-phenylalanine supplements? Like from the vitamin sectio
n at the store? I looked this up and what an awesome find. What daily regime are
you taking?

I apologize for the long delay, ChemicalFeelings!!

I take 4-6 grams 1-3 times a day of the d-phenylalanine.
What a find indeed!! Tell me about it!!! I was pretty stoked after readi
ng the research about it, although much of the available research is sadly outda
ted. Still, what IS available convinced me to try it.
I love it, but I'm afraid of now being dependent on IT in order to keep
this same level of highdom I get now. And boy, do I gotta be careful!! Especiall
y with fent!
Last edited by AlaskaThunder; 18-02-2013 at 05:34. Reason: copy & pasted
too much info

Am I the only one who didnt really get anything from potentiation? I tri
ed both White Grapefruit Juice and Tagamet and neither did anything. The only th
ing that ever made the high different was if I took at least like 60-70 mgs of D
XM, and I think that was just more the effect of DXM then changing how the dope
hit me.

Quote Originally Posted by cerebral_pauly View Post

Am I the only one who didnt really get anything from potentiation? I tri
ed both White Grapefruit Juice and Tagamet and neither did anything. The only th
ing that ever made the high different was if I took at least like 60-70 mgs of D
XM, and I think that was just more the effect of DXM then changing how the dope
hit me.
If you take too much DXM, enough to get you into 1st Plateau, it'll inte
rfere with the opiate high. 1st Plateau is different for everyone, but it typica
lly begins at >100mgs. Incidentally, I take 30-45mgs a few hours beforehand.
What are you trying to potentiate, cerebral_pauly?
I tried it back when I was using Heroin but honestly the only thing that
really made it better was different stuff or another opiate thrown on top.
The best potentiator of opiates is opiates. haha!

The only thing that potentiates opioids for me,specifically my methadone

dose, is a small to moderate dose of benzodiazepines, say 1 mg of clonazepam an
d,
100 mg's of dimenhydrinate usually works good for me....but thats just m
e.
In my experience taking 50-100mg of Hydroxyzine before taking say a Oxy
30 and it will defintely make it more euphoric.
Science wise I have no clue how this works but I noticed it seems a lot
'cleaner' then using a Benzo.

Quote Originally Posted by Anon610 View Post

In my experience taking 50-100mg of Hydroxyzine before taking say a Oxy

30 and it will defintely make it more euphoric.
Science wise I have no clue how this works but I noticed it seems a lot
'cleaner' then using a Benzo.
I'll take hydroxyzine (50-75mgs) at the same time as hydro's, or a low d
ose of morphine. I do not like the nods, tho, and I HATE falling asleep and wast
ing it, so I will take some ephedrine with it. And/or I'll drink copious amounts
of caffeinated beverages, like coffee or Rockstars.
Hydroxyzine is a potent enzyme inhibitor.
I don't like nobs either, prefer speedy affects of hydo instead of nobs
like oxy. I drink tons of coffee and coco cola.
Just been having a hard time finding the right potenator for me.

Freaking auto correct, nods!!

Can someone please tell me when to take the potentiator? I'm not sure if
I would get the total benefit if I take them together. I think but I need someo
ne to tell be if I should take the Potentiator and hydrocodone at the same time
or before and if before then how long before should I take the potentiators befo
re the hydrocodone. How many minutes before because it seems to me that you shou
ld get the potentiators working in your body your body pluggingup the enzyme. Bu
t I'm not sure so doesanyone know the answer? Thanks
Quote Originally Posted by v_fulcher View Post
Can someone please tell me when to take the potentiator? I'm not sure if
I would get the total benefit if I take them together. I think but I need someo
ne to tell be if I should take the Potentiator and hydrocodone at the same time
or before and if before then how long before should I take the potentiators befo
re the hydrocodone. How many minutes before because it seems to me that you shou
ld get the potentiators working in your body your body pluggingup the enzyme. Bu
t I'm not sure so doesanyone know the answer? Thanks
It depends on what you are using and what ROA's.
It seems you are taking hydrocodone orally.
If you are going to be using antihistamines/benzos for potentiation, tak
e it alongside the hydrocodone. You could take it a few minutes before the hydro
codone too.
If you are going to be smoking weed, or smoking/IVing anything else, do
it when you are feeling the hydrocodone.

So yea I did some reading on potentiating opiods and decided to ingest 5

00ml white grapefruit juice from concentrate, about 500ml of tonic water contain
ing quinine, 30mg of dxm and then the guide recommended 1.5 tablespoons of bakin
g soda.
Threw the baking soda in a glas with a small amount of water and knocked
it back in one.
What followed from ingesting this was violent stomach pains and cramps f
ollowed by projectile vommiting all over my room, my stomach still feels rather
painful now nearly half hour later.

Whats worse is now due to the vommiting i am unsure if all the previousl
y ingested grapefruit juice and quinine would have taken effect.
So yea wtf was there supposed to be a certain way of ingesting the bakin
g soda where it doesnt explode in your stomach?

1.5 Tablespoons of baking soda? I think therein lied your problem.... Wh

y not just use Tums instead??

^Yeah, use Tums instead. And that's a lot of baking soda! If you are ins
istant on using baking soda just mix a teaspoon with a large glass of water and
drink it, don't mix DXM and tonic water and tons of baking soda and grapefruit j
uice. That sounds gross. Baking soda should be mixed with plenty of water, not t
aken in large amounts with a tiny bit of water. And why do you need 4 potentiato
rs at once?

I have benadryl, promethazine, and Xanax. What is the best to potentiate

opiates and are there any other OTC supplements that will increase the intensit
y or duration or reduce tolerance? I want to avoid Xanax as I already have a tol
erance from using about 10 mg a week for a while now and personally I find benzo
s add much more sedation but detract from euphoria.
I haven't noticed much effect from grapefruit juice. Trying to potentiat
e some H which I insuffilate or smoke.
Is DXM any good and is 50 mg. reasonable dose?
Cheers
For those looking for a hydroxyzine-like drug to potentiate opioids but
only have access to OTC drugs, then take a look at Bonine (Meclizine 25mg tablet
s, chewable), or Dramamine Less Drowsy (Meclizine 25mg). The half life is less t
han hydroxyzine, but it has unique anti-emetic effects shared with mirtazapine a
nd Zofran, through 5-HT3 activity. It also has 5-ht2c antagonist effects, but no
t as strong of a 5-ht2c antagonist as hydroxyzine, but it's OTC and relatively c
heap if you get generic.
Also, cyclizine has been OTC in the US since 2009, and cyclizine greatly
potentiates opioids, and is sold as Bonine for Kids, similar to hydroxyzine but
apparently it's an experience of its own. People tend to combine these piperazi
nes with open-chain methadone-class opioids, as they have unique synergy, and ca
n be much more dangerous than using it to potentiate a [closed chain] opiate or
non-methadone class synthetic opioid such as tapentadol.
Hydroxyzine also metabolites a fair share of it through your liver into
cetirizine, it's one of it's main metabolites. One source even claims up to half
of hydroxyzine is metabolized into Cetirizine (Zyrtec) but hydroxyzine is able
to readily cross the Blood Brain Barrier, unlike Ceterizine (OTC Zyrtec and gene
rics) and probably meclizine (Dramamine II/less drowsy).
Only reason I mention it (besides being totally relevant) is that IMO hy
droxyzine is perhaps the best antihistamine with the LEAST amount of anticholine
rgic / drying out effects, and because it's main metabolite is cetirizine which

is another potentiator (just one that doesn't cross BBB) so your kinda killing t
wo birds with one stone w/ Hydroxyzine HCl.
I think that diphenhydramine is by far the best anti-itching anti-histam
ine but it definitely can cause too much anticholinergic effects like constipati
on, which is usually already a problem for opioid users, which is why I prefer t
o take a higher dose of hydroxyzine (50-100mg) to compensate for the same anti-i
tching relief that 50mg diphenhydramine would have provided.
I find none of these antihistamines to be sedating, at least not at the
doses I use (100mg and less).
Promethazine is another really good one but it's NOT one that you should
be using regularly due to it's ability to induce extra pyramidal effects like t
he antipsychotics it's so chemically related to. (Hydroxyzine is also reported t
o sometimes cause this after prolonged (4 month+ daily) high-dose usage, but is
generally regarded as much less benign than promethazine and other antihistamine
s).
I have a question that may be answered already but couldn't find it. Any
way does Thorazine potentiate Hydrocodone if so when and what does should I take
? Any replys are welcome and thanks in advance.
Thorazine is chlorpromazine right? I imagine it'd aid the nod but typica
l neuroleptics are something I wouldn't envisage adding to opiates.

Bioperine is definitely one of the best potentiators I've ever used. It

spikes the bioavailability of just about every pill, herb, and supplement. When
mixed with diphenhydramine, oxys seem to nearly double in strength. All using le
gal supplements. You can find Bioperine at most Vitamin Shoppes

PillBlaster, your
ntains about 9% of it) is
cyp3a4 inhibitors, i had
ds cool to me..think i'll

post gave me hopes...I know piperine, (black pepper co

a CYP3A4 inhibitor, i've tried to potentiate fent with
very good results with the strong ones, bioperine soun
try it.

MartinFn
I forget to mention my opinion about hydroxyzine, as i see that a lot of
people says that it works great..i've tried it at doses from 50-125mg, it didn'
t make shit, diphenydramine too. (But i'm talking about fent potentiation, don't
know with other opiods..). And of course, everybody's reaction to one certain d
rug may be much different, so that's maybe doesn't mean anything, it's just my p
ersonal opinion (well, it's not an opinion, it's a fact, cause i turn myself to
guinea-pig and try it, with no results, but anyway..). Hallo to all BL nation.
MartinFn
Quick question I have a bottle of fioricet 5mg and only 2 Endocets 5mg.
If I'm reading right the fioricet can be a potentiator to Opiates if so how much
should I use for 2 5mg Endocets? Ahh shit I wish I had a better stash right now
but this is what I'm working with so I mite as well try n get the best out of i
t. Any help would be appreciated.

The d-phen is making the morphs last up to a whopping 16+ hours!!! I LOV
E this shit man!!! Hahaha!!!!
Also, I start to peak at 7-8 hours, with a powerfully slow build up that
starts at about an hour after administration.
Last edited by AlaskaThunder; 08-06-2013 at 23:16. Reason: Additional in
formation about peaking.
Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaThunder View Post
The d-phen is making the morphs.....
By this I assume you mean the D-phenylalanine (isomer)? I personally fou
nd it increased the duration of a noticeable effect* yet no increase of the peak
concentration levels let alone for any extended time amount at these levels whi
ch seem (concurrently or separately) doubtful. The analgesics properties of D-ph
enylalanine are thought to be via a reduction in the enkephalin degradation (enz
ymatically, not important here) of which predominately effects DOR (delta opioid
receptors), whilst morphine more closely mimics the endogenous endorphins and h
ence has affinity to MOR (-opioid receptor). DOR of which are not known for their
euphoric effect.
I would presume your slow peak (a 7 -8 hour peak on morphine - no matter
what ROA - is extremely long!) would be due to the slow degradation of the morp
hine. And lasting effect more a psychosomatic response. Sorry mate.

* Which makes sense since I'm on bupe which is - in addition to all the
other opioid-receptor activity - is a DOR (d-opioid) receptor antagonist so the
prevention of this would cause an extended effect.
Last edited by tyrael; 09-06-2013 at 01:14.

my mutha fucka....benadryl aka diphenhydramine is a potentiator, ...luci

d dream exp...
i have tolerance to oxycodone and dilaudid, in the range of 30mg oxy and
16mg dilaudid. i like to take 2 robaxacet 8s with them but dont feel a big boos
t like i used to with oxy, with dilaudid its different. so i got some benadryl 2
5mg a pill, would it be safe to take 2 robaxacet 8s (325 acetaminophen, 400 meth
acarbamol, 8 codeine) one 25mg benadryl and 40mg oxycodone. i never took 40mg be
fore but 30 dosent do much anymore.
I take a strong antihistamine called atarax hydrocosine 25mg x 3 prescri
bed for idiopathic anaphylaxis and I find they make a huge difference to the fee
ling of calm disassociation when taken with oramorph and tramadol. Have been tol
d by specialist that the amount of drugs (prescribed) I take would drop an eleph
ant !
Sorry for the false implication, Tyreal! What you described about the ef
fects of d-phenylalanine much more eloquently and more accurately describes my e

xperience. The high itself is not intensified, but the duration is much much lon
ger than without.
Last edited by AlaskaThunder; 25-06-2013 at 07:40. Reason: Forgot to dir
ect my post to Tyrael.

Ok, maybe a little intensified than without. But the duration is what ha
s me in love. haha
Quote Originally Posted by tyrael View Post
By this I assume you mean the D-phenylalanine (isomer)? I personally fou
nd it increased the duration of a noticeable effect* yet no increase of the peak
concentration levels let alone for any extended time amount at these levels whi
ch seem (concurrently or separately) doubtful. The analgesics properties of D-ph
enylalanine are thought to be via a reduction in the enkephalin degradation (enz
ymatically, not important here) of which predominately effects DOR (delta opioid
receptors), whilst morphine more closely mimics the endogenous endorphins and h
ence has affinity to MOR (-opioid receptor). DOR of which are not known for their
euphoric effect.
I would presume your slow peak (a 7 -8 hour peak on morphine - no matter
what ROA - is extremely long!) would be due to the slow degradation of the morp
hine. And lasting effect more a psychosomatic response. Sorry mate.

* Which makes sense since I'm on bupe which is - in addition to all the
other opioid-receptor activity - is a DOR (d-opioid) receptor antagonist so the
prevention of this would cause an extended effect.
Don't forget the effects DPA has on inhibiting decarboxylase, an enzyme
that immediately and indiscriminately metabolizes all opiates. DPA should be eff
ective no matter what your opioid DOC is. :-)
[P.S. I am impressed with your response, Tyreal. Clearly, you did some r
esearch before responding. I greatly appreciate that in my dialogues. If I knew
how to throw you some kudos, I would.
Also, let me know your experience with d-phenylalanine, how you took it,
side-effects, etc., if it's not too personal.]
Last edited by AlaskaThunder; 02-07-2013 at 04:40. Reason: Added a post
script for Tyreal
I'm an oxycodone user. I used to attain euphoria at 250mg doses orally.
What can I do to make it fun again? If I cannot attain the same effects that I d
id previously, I will end my usage of oxycodone.
Last edited by bronson; 02-07-2013 at 14:57. Reason: Edited entire threa
d. Please refrain from using third person narritives as per the user agreement.
Thanks!

Related reading:
The Ultimate Opioid Potentiation Thread
The Ultimate Opioid Potentiation Thread v2.0

You'd be surprised how effective the search engine could be.

Oh I'm sorry that was a misunderstanding

I thought he was personifying oxycodone, the "friend" I was referring to
Love ya chrom

Merging this to The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0 as per mod
request.
Quote Originally Posted by Ho-Chi-Minh View Post
Oh I'm sorry that was a misunderstanding
I thought he was personifying oxycodone, the "friend" I was referring to
Love ya chrom
Love you too HCM
It's no worry. I'm just making sure your political power and character a
re channeled in the correct manner. Being gentle is the preference with novice u
sers
Thanks for the move bronson!

so if planning on taking 70 mg hydro, then CWE another 150 how much bene
dryl to take with the first and second dose.
the first dose will be taken 1 hour before the 2nd dose? iv had good luc
k with 75 mg should i stick to that or no?
I am not sure if this has been mentioned or not but there are a list of
herbal supplements in which the herbs are mechanism based inhibitors of CYP3A4.
Mechanism based inhibitors inhibit an enzyme drastically and in some cases, they
can deactive that particular enzyme in your body until it goes through the proc
ess and makes more.
I will see if I can find the list but the one that is easy to get and re
ally common is Schizandra Fruit which comes in Schizandra Fruit extract and can
be bought at any vitamin or herb shop. You need to be careful though because if
you do not have that enzyme, your body may have issues cleaning out any substanc
es that are cleaned out by that enzyme and can lead to toxicity issues.
I actually have a spreadsheet somewhere that has a long list of potentia
tors which are all based on enzyme manipulation for opioids including Kratom. I'
ve got to find that because lots of good info that I researched over a long peri
od of time reading medical studies.
Quote Originally Posted by FastRaceCarGuy View Post
so if planning on taking 70 mg hydro, then CWE another 150 how much bene
dryl to take with the first and second dose.

the first dose will be taken 1 hour before the 2nd dose? iv had good luc
k with 75 mg should i stick to that or no?
Personally, that sounds like a miserable time and you are basically goin
g to pass out or close to it.
Regardless, it is kinda of hard to answer that question when you do not
state what your goal is.
Try UYB, i.e. plugging. The most effective roa after I.V.

Quote Originally Posted by BaddTripp View Post

I have 2 5/325 hydrocodone pills but since i have a fairly high toleranc
e level im afraid that if i take these orally i wont get a buzz. i usually have
to take 4 or 5 of these to get a good buzz. what other ways can i take them that
would increase the high? if any.
fuck snorting them and im not going to inject them. help pls
Try UYB, i.e. plugging. The most effective roa after I.V.
I have found that benedryl DOES potentate subs,tho my experience was on
a much larger scale.not planned that way,but hallucinations,audio,and visual got
pretty bad.I could not tune my own guitar. I,m old schooled(over 60),The drugs
around 45 yrs ago are all but gone off the market and took alot of good people d
own.
I'm sick of meth clinics,and the docs are dropping out and going to subs
. WEll they still cash in on subs wo all the risk. Subs to me are better than be
ing in opiate wd....but not by much! After ditching the dryl,amazed I was still
breathing, and still had a wife, one morning my feet and legs were really swolle
n...pitting edema. I'm pretty healthy for my age. but this edema means
your kidneys, liver, whatever are shutting down. When taking the sominex
(dryl), I thought I was sleeping a bit between horrific nightmares,hallucinatio
ns ,etc.After stopping the dryl and lowering the subs and ativan doses ,I don't
sleep much at all. I had a bunch of other weird infections,tendon problems....I'
m just trying to say, if you are the very adictive type, binger, etc. I would te
ll ya to ditch the benadryl That shit is pure garbage!

I didn't see a post about Tizanidine (Zaniflex in the US)...... I have h

eard this works.....

Quote Originally Posted by jaypee View Post

Does anyone know what dose of Benadryl would be required to potentiate 1
5mg of Oxycodone?
I am prescribed 50mg's of Benadryl IM q6h by my doctor. In the ER I've s
een it IV. JUST DON'T GO SUBCU, the box states for IV/ deep IM injection. The re
ason for deep IM injection is tat it can cause necrosis.

Just sifting through this thread...and I got mad and more mad to the poi
nt where I was feeling a slight jolt of anger down my spine, neck and arms....it
's Tagamet, not Tagament, Tagment, Tegmet or simetidine. fuck.

Alright so I used some of the recommendations listed

800mg Cimetidine half our before
30mg hydrocodone
Half our later 1 toast with good amount of butter.
Results feeling amazing.

Cimitedine will definatly increase your buzz and the oxy will stay in yo
ur system longer if u take cimitidine(tagemet)
Take about 400mg an hour before taking oxy or any other opiate
Last edited by tricomb; 23-09-2013 at 17:29. Reason: double posting

A white grapfruit juce and tonic water cocktail

Tagamet and tums, If taking oraly
This was the correct reply.

Hi all,
How much more effective is it to plug a solution containing say 150mg of
dihydrocodeine, than to use the same solution orally (and before it's been in y
our ass :P)
Anyone have experience with citrus cpy-450 inhibition?
I've had some fairly surprising potentiation of morphine, and on a few o
ccasions, black tar and decently pure heroin from earl grey tea, and constant co
mment tea. The latter exhibiting the most pronounced affects.
Apparently theres a bunch of different cpy-450 inhibitors in bergamont/b
itter orange rinds. Bergamottin being the most widely known one, along with 6',7
'-dihydroxybergamottin.
IME, the potentiation was stronger than floridas natural grapefruit juic
e with bigelow constant comment tea.
Be careful, one cup of tea had me nodding HARD, after a moderate nasal d
ose of off white "china white" heroin administered nasally in a sprayer. A dose
that would normally be nothing more than pain relief, turned into a heavy duty n
arcotic experience.
Just a heads up, be safe with teas with citrus components that can have
strong cpy-450 inhibition, at least from my experience in the matter.
Good way to potentate certain opioids is by stimulating the efficiency o
f certain liver enzymes responsible for converting morphine. Juice from white gr
apes is the most potent natural way to do so, then certain medications (antibiot
ics) also can potentate the enzymes, like chloramphenicol for example.

More obvious ways are benzodiazepines and anti-histamines, but I find th

ose to take away from the opiate experience.
The sad thing is that once you go over the tolerance step where you can
no longer catch a nod, there's no way to get it back without staying absent for
some time. Opiates work in a way that will always satisfy the mind once ingested
, unlike stimulants and alcohol that just won't work in a satisfactory way once
tolerance develops.
Quote Originally Posted by daytryptr View Post
Anyone have experience with citrus cpy-450 inhibition?
I've had some fairly surprising potentiation of morphine, and on a few o
ccasions, black tar and decently pure heroin from earl grey tea, and constant co
mment tea. The latter exhibiting the most pronounced affects.
Apparently theres a bunch of different cpy-450 inhibitors in bergamont/b
itter orange rinds. Bergamottin being the most widely known one, along with 6',7
'-dihydroxybergamottin.
IME, the potentiation was stronger than floridas natural grapefruit juic
e with bigelow constant comment tea.
Be careful, one cup of tea had me nodding HARD, after a moderate nasal d
ose of off white "china white" heroin administered nasally in a sprayer. A dose
that would normally be nothing more than pain relief, turned into a heavy duty n
arcotic experience.
Just a heads up, be safe with teas with citrus components that can have
strong cpy-450 inhibition, at least from my experience in the matter.
Neither heroin nor morphine are metabolized by cyp450 3a4. Morphine unde
rgoes glucoronidation and heroin is hydrolyzed then undergoes glucoronidation.
So eithera.) your "heroin" and "morphine" were something that IS metabolized by c
y450 3a4 (such as your 'chine white' being cut with fentanyl) or
b.) it was in your head.
Sorry to piss in your tea - Also a friendly tip, twining's earl grey tas
tes far better than bigelow
Placebo effect definitely.
Even with my oxycodone or oxymorphone, I've eaten like no joke almost 12
grapefruits (topped with brown sugar ) and had ZERO effect on the efficacy of t
he opioids (also tried with benzodiazepines) and felt if anything, less effectiv
e.
I used to use dhc, and later iv subutex and one thing that really enhanc
ed the effects of both was dipenhydramine. (Not in a benadryl formulation, but t
he pure dph hcl tablets commonly sold as sleep aids.) With dhc, 100mg was enough
. As an IV solution a quarter of this was more than enough, Filtered carefully o
f course; there are crazy binders in dph. Of course, it more than merely potenti
ates these opiates, but combines to create a very unique and pleasurable buzz. D
ph is a sedative of course, so caffeine or strong coffee can counteract this eff
ect, causing a more stimulating buzz.

Avoid large doses of dph; it's a delirant in high enough doses, and not
particularly pleasant.....

Yeah, its prob cut with fent then. Theres no way its placebo. I had no i
dea those teas potentiated/inhibited cp-450 before i drank them. And the effects
i felt, were far more powerful than what was expected from the opiate(oid) dose
.
So it can't be placebo, since i had no idea i was potentiating it, until
after the fact, when i looked into the affects of bergamont oranges and cp-450.
Makes sense if you think most of the dope around is cut with fent to a degree o
r another.
I seriously doubt it was placebo though, as that would require prior exp
ectancy that the tea would potentate the dose. Which was not there.
You can't say it can't be the placebo *effect* because if you were consc
ious of the disparity between what it would exert naturally versus how expectati
on changes/amplifies it, then it wouldn't be the placebo effect. My point is tha
t you don't know what it would have felt like without the 3a4 inhibitor so there
's no way to tell what, if any, impact that had.
If you're using street drugs, if there was a change, it's more likely va
riance in the potency of the product rather than fentanyl adulteration (or even
another variable such as environmental tolerance or something else along those l
ines). Fentanyl makes for a far different and less euphoric high than heroin and
is less commonly used as an adulterant in most places because heroin is far che
aper than regulated (or even illicitly synthesized) pharmaceutical opioids. Powd
er heroin is cut with fentanyl at times (often from diverted veterinarian suppli
es) but given the regulation of such, the additional liability of adding a pharm
aceutical heist on top of importing and distributing and your consumer generally
not wanting a product that is cut with a less enjoyable alternative, it's far f
rom ubiquitous.
(...cue the "no way, my stuff is consistent" and/or "I would know if it
was stronger so there's no way" retort )
My only purpose in responding is to point out that you can't know someth
ing like that your heroin was cut with fentanyl by speculating after the fact wh
en there are so many variables you aren't controlling for and even if you were,
without lab testing, it's impossible to know.
Even if you'd used that batch before, subtleties such as inconsistency o
f the distribution of the cut or the proportion of nasal spray you used being ab
sorbed by your nasal mucosa providing for less loss of bioavailability by incide
ntal oral ingestion could also produce what you believe to have experienced.
Last edited by Cane2theLeft; 19-09-2013 at 08:49.
Quote Originally Posted by PaulAtreides View Post
Hi all,
How much more effective is it to plug a solution containing say 150mg of
dihydrocodeine, than to use the same solution orally (and before it's been in y
our ass :P)
I tried plugging about 200mg of DHC this evening (I say about, as it was
a CWE)

I plugged it at 7pm tonight - it took an hour to kick in - which surpris

ed me, I thought it would work very quickly. Without going too much information
on your ass, I used a butt douche beforehand, to ensure my ass was empty and the
refore the DHC was absorbed where it should be.
Anyway, it was far, far more effective than orally - feels about 5 times
as strong and more than 2 hours later (given it kicked in at 8pm) I'm still fee
ling very euphoric. No itching or flushed face and chest like I get with plain c
odeine. It feels excellent I must say.

Quote Originally Posted by Cane2theLeft View Post

You can't say it can't be the placebo *effect* because if you were consc
ious of the disparity between what it would exert naturally versus how expectati
on changes/amplifies it, then it wouldn't be the placebo effect. My point is tha
t you don't know what it would have felt like without the 3a4 inhibitor so there
's no way to tell what, if any, impact that had.
If you're using street drugs, if there was a change, it's more likely va
riance in the potency of the product rather than fentanyl adulteration (or even
another variable such as environmental tolerance or something else along those l
ines). Fentanyl makes for a far different and less euphoric high than heroin and
is less commonly used as an adulterant in most places because heroin is far che
aper than regulated (or even illicitly synthesized) pharmaceutical opioids. Powd
er heroin is cut with fentanyl at times (often from diverted veterinarian suppli
es) but given the regulation of such, the additional liability of adding a pharm
aceutical heist on top of importing and distributing and your consumer generally
not wanting a product that is cut with a less enjoyable alternative, it's far f
rom ubiquitous.
(...cue the "no way, my stuff is consistent" and/or "I would know if it
was stronger so there's no way" retort )
My only purpose in responding is to point out that you can't know someth
ing like that your heroin was cut with fentanyl by speculating after the fact wh
en there are so many variables you aren't controlling for and even if you were,
without lab testing, it's impossible to know.
Even if you'd used that batch before, subtleties such as inconsistency o
f the distribution of the cut or the proportion of nasal spray you used being ab
sorbed by your nasal mucosa providing for less loss of bioavailability by incide
ntal oral ingestion could also produce what you believe to have experienced.
This post is spot on. Read, Learn.
so i just got a bottle of delsym cough and it has just DXM in it, whats
the best amount to dose before doing some dope to help further tolerance and pot
entiation it?
also i have another question, i took 100mg of vyvanse earlier today arou
nd 4am this morning when i woke up, would i be ok to take dxm around 130-2pm? I
have a pretty damn high tolerance to amphetamines/vyvanse they don't really get
me high anymore if that matters.
Last edited by tomatalli; 14-12-2013 at 09:19.

As a fellow spelling/syntax nazi, I share your frustration.

Quote Originally Posted by tomatalli View Post

so i just got a bottle of delsym cough and it has just DXM in it, whats
the best amount to dose before doing some dope to help further tolerance and pot
entiation it?
Delsym Cough is serious stuff.
If you're just doing it to potentiate an opiate, i'd say 400mg DXM (if y
ou're experience using DXM as an opiate potentiator). If you are NOT experienced
using DXM as an opiate potentiator, stay around the 110-125mg range. Then, just
gradually work your way up.
Pound for pound. Delsym is the best DXM product on the market right now
for potentiating opiates. It's also like $15 a bottle around here, so my buddy P
sycho Sid usually ganks it for me.
Sorry for the confusing replies, I'm learning here.
Lyrica works for me
I am wondering if promethazine goes well with hydrocodone?
I know people seem to go on and on about how great it potentiates codein
e with this whole lean business.
Since hydrocodone and codeine are chemically similar I wonder if there i
s anything to gain from taking some promethazine with it? My main goals are to n
ot be in pain or dope sick. I am running a bit low on my normal rx of morphine.
Also would does promethazine do anything with morphine?
^^^
Yeah it is combined with hydrocodone as well as codeine in the cough syr
ups that people abuse. There is a similar synergy as when it is used with codein
e.
It'll fuck you up with any opiate you take it with, really.. if that's t
he effect your looking for.
I am trying promethazene for the first time as a potentiator to my half
tenth shot of H. I already dosed the opioid and then took a k3 prmthzne pill...I
'm sure this will be a relaxing night...My only concern is that I am asthmatic a
nd the anhistimine may cause an adverse reaction...but we'll cross those bridges
when we get there lol
Quote Originally Posted by rollinballs85 View Post
Lyrica works for me
I can't even begin to describe the intense suicidal thoughts I had when
I took Lyrica. I was scared out of my mind, and have sworn never to go back to i
t, no matter how bad the pain gets (and more often than not, it is shocking). I
went through Norspan patches, which not only didn't work, but also left burn mar
ks on my skin. I've had CT guided injections, general steroid injections, and en
ded up then moving to the tablets to try and help. Lyrica first, as above = no g
ood. OTC anti inflammatory meds = would have to take too many to help. Then move

d into the Tramadol (ok, but still in pain) and oxycodone range (real relief, fi
nally). This is over 12 months ago, though, and I am still unable to return to w
ork full time. The 5mg oxycodone hcl tablets seem to be the only thing that have
worked, however, due to the duration of time I have been taking them, they are
relieving pain for shorter and shorter time spans. I have been RX'd 4 p/day endo
ne, and that's it. For the last two months, though, I have had to self-medicate
up to one extra pill per day at times (which I'm not entirely proud of, and am a
ware it can make me out to look like a seeker to some doctors). With a month bet
ween doctor visits this time, I have had to try and make do with what's availabl
e, to help with my pain. So, apart from the odd OTC 15/500 codeine/paracetamol a
ssistance (with help from threads on here), I've now taken to self medicating wi
th tramadol 100mg SR 1 in morning, one @ night, and continuing with normal RX of
endone. Is the doctor likely to prescribe me both moving forward (i.e. should I
tell them), or should I try and do the grapefruit thing before and after each e
ndone once the RX is filled again? Or both?
I am very new here, so please forgive me if this post is in the wrong pl
ace, too long, too much detail etc. I have written something similar on another
thread, but it seems that here is where I might get the help I need. I would rea
lly appreciate it, if possible, and thank you sincerely for reading regardless.
Ps. Since reading about getting the spelling right (^ ^ ^), I've really
tried to get it right in this one. Hopefully I pass.
Anyone like a bump of K when on opiates to potentiate? I find sometimes
it adds to the euphoria in a really nice way.

^ I did find it to be quite a synergistic combination the one time I tri

ed it years ago.
I have to say, I've never used Benadryl for anything other than allergie
s, but the gellcaps do wonders for spider bites. Take one orally, spread one acr
oss the wound....
Last edited by LilikoiSeed; 25-01-2014 at 08:48.
For me, a nice, warm cup of sweet tea is fantastic on opies - I get terr
ible sugar munchies when opiated so I add 3+ spoonfuls of sugar, can't be too he
althy.
You should use organic local honey instead of sugar!
^^^
+1 I love organic honey. I'm all about a spoonful of that shit and some
lemon in my tea. That's how a boss does it.
Today I took Tagamet 600 mg 45 minutes before my double dose of Percocet
. Worked like a charm. The dose lasted all day and was far more euphoric. I will
do this faithfully from now on in order to save my medication so I can make sur
e not to run out.

Whats the difference between all the oxys? So far ive noticed 3
Oxycodon
Oxycotty
Oxyneo (abuse proof right?)
Is there more types
Is endone a type of the above or in its own category?
Whats a safe amount to use first time recreationally?
^Might be better to ask that in a general opioid thread, rather than a p
otentiation thread like this one.
Also, where did you see "Oxycotty"?! never heard of that one before....
sounds like a fabric softener!
(Endone is a brand name for pills containing oxycodone, usually in small
amounts only, I believe)

My stupid phone likes to cut off the last letter before a new line. Its
annoying and i dont care enough to fix it :-P
I didnt want to start a new thread cos figured they might be basic quest
ions and someone could just- tell me. I think i meant oxycottin but am too lazy
to look up the spelling
So 5mg endones are not strong?
I think i meant oxycottin but am too lazy to look up the spelling
Ah, that's be Oxycontin - as in continual release.
Endones are not particularly strong, no. Oxycodone is a potent opioid, t
hough for sure. It really depends on your tolerance.
By the way, there's an existing thread called the "Synthetic Opioid Mega
thread" which has lots of info in there. Probably easier to find it by typing th
at phrase into Google rather than using BL's search function.

Fexeril not all great,I have bottles and bottles of it, didn't work for
me, wish I had soma, docs here won't give it
Last edited by jeff71268; 16-03-2014 at 16:42. Reason: spelling
Quote Originally Posted by infectedmushroom View Post
Anyone like a bump of K when on opiates to potentiate? I find sometimes
it adds to the euphoria in a really nice way.
I agree with this statement.
Anyone like a bump of K when on opiates to potentiate? I find sometimes
it adds to the euphoria in a really nice way.

A small oral dose of MXE taken around 40 minutes BEFORE taking an opiate
can be an outstanding combination. It's something that only people familiar wit
h both substances should try, however, because it can be hard to get the amounts
right and can be dangerous for those without a fair tolerance.
Due to being an opiate addict, I very rarely am able to get high on opia
tes anymore (too expensive to do anything more than maintain a minimum standard
of functionality. But I was amazed at the synergy MXE had with codeine when I tr
ied that. I wasn't expecting much because codeine hasn't done much for me for ye
ars now, and so I was really surprised that the low dose of MXE seemed to mimic
codeine's effects and enhance them to the point where it was actually a euphoric
experience.
The trick of the thing I found was getting the MXE dose just right. Too
much and it overpowers an opiate high and can increase respiratory depression si
gnificantly. Potentially very dangerous. Too little and nothing much happens. Ge
t just the right amount and time it so both MXE and the opiate start becoming no
ticeable at the same time and it can be awesome.
Too awesome, in fact. When the MXE was all gone I found that my toleranc
e seemed to have blasted upwards, and I was getting even less than usual out of
my daily maintenance doses.
Ok, here's a question? If a person who takes oxycodone gets stimulate fe
eling when its really a downer, is it safe for them to do other uppers with it,
when its supposed to be worse mixing up and downer??
Hi Jeff
Your question is too broad and we don't have enough information to comme
nt in detail. Oxycodone is a bit of a special case for "downers" because while i
t is an opioid and CNS depressant it is often said by users to create a light an
d stimulating high, compared to other papver somniferum-based substances like mo
rphine, codeine, and heroin. So if you were thinking that your reaction to oxy w
as paradoxical, it isn't.
I think to answer this question, we need to be more specific: uppers and
downers covers WAY too many substances of different classes and methods of acti
on. What kind of stimulant were you thinking of taking with the oxy?
Quote Originally Posted by Halif View Post
Hi Jeff
Your question is too broad and we don't have enough information to comme
nt in detail. Oxycodone is a bit of a special case for "downers" because while i
t is an opioid and CNS depressant it is often said by users to create a light an
d stimulating high, compared to other papver somniferum-based substances like mo
rphine, codeine, and heroin. So if you were thinking that your reaction to oxy w
as paradoxical, it isn't.
I think to answer this question, we need to be more specific: uppers and
downers covers WAY too many substances of different classes and methods of acti
on. What kind of stimulant were you thinking of taking with the oxy?
Ok, they say mixing percocet and coke is bad,percocet is down and coke u
pper, but percocet brings me up??

If you're just doing it to potentiate an opiate, i'd say 400mg DXM (if y
ou're experience using DXM as an opiate potentiator). If you are NOT experienced
using DXM as an opiate potentiator, stay around the 110-125mg range.
Saw this a page back and did a double take.... am I reading that right?
400mg of DXM to potentiate opiates!?!? Wouldn't that be like chugging most of a
bottle of cough syrup? And surely that amount of DXM would overpower and/or comp
letely impinge on any opiate experience.
Even 110-120mg sounds too high.
I've used DXM many, many times before taking an opiate and find that 4060mg is as much as is needed. Going 100mg or over isn't really potentiating opia
te effects so much as two drugs working at the same time.

I went back to 15mg of hydrocodone (as I had run out) but I had found so
me benedryl. I took one benedryl with them and it did feel a bit stronger. That
single pill was 25mg of diphenhydramine (an antihistamine).

Quote Originally Posted by Halif View Post

Saw this a page back and did a double take.... am I reading that right?
400mg of DXM to potentiate opiates!?!? Wouldn't that be like chugging most of a
bottle of cough syrup? And surely that amount of DXM would overpower and/or comp
letely impinge on any opiate experience.
Even 110-120mg sounds too high.
I've used DXM many, many times before taking an opiate and find that 4060mg is as much as is needed. Going 100mg or over isn't really potentiating opia
te effects so much as two drugs working at the same time.
I saw this too and my jaw just about hit the floor! When I use DXM to po
tentiate, even 30mg seems a little too much for me. 400mg and I'd think taking m
y DOC was just an OEV! haha!! Yikes!

Apparantly even nicotine increases desired effects of opioids, from some

reading I did last night.

Well this is meant to pass judgement. You are a piece of work. You must
be high on crack right now. This thread isnt discussing the illicit use of stree
t drugs in combination with the use of illicit opiates like street heroin. Which
by the way, Heroin in its pure form makes for an extremely potent and relativel
y safe pain killer. But I somehow doubt you are using a pharmacetical grade of d
iecetylmorphine. The shit these Mexicans are bringing in is flat out scary. You
dont know what you are getting. Could be 7% pure, could be 80% pure. Could have
dog shit in it, u woukd never know. Then you are topping it off with chemically
processed cocaine?? Thats a whole new definition of a potentiator. Most of us ar
e simply looking for a combination of medication that maximizes the pain killing
properties of the opiates we take. Im seeing now that I am very naive. I though
t this was a place to come discuss things with people that are going through the
same daily battles as I am. Its people like you that make it difficult for genu
inely sick people to get the medicine they need. Junkies like you are the reason

doctors and healthcare professionals hesitate to prescribe and administer poten

t opioids to people that really need them. Do you know how many doctors and phar
macists come browse these forums? They see morons like you spouting off a the mo
uth about how you're gonna take a hit of crack right after you push a bag of sma
ck. Im sure im gonna get kicked off this site, which Im happy about. But you sho
uld go to the forums where the tweakers go and babble non sense all day. Wow, yo
u got me on a roll. And I do take large amounts of opiate pain killers. And I do
look for other LEGAL drugs to combine to help enhance their effectiveness. I'll
even go as far as saying im addicted to my medicine. But not by choice, I have
a very good reason to need a drug to control my pain. People that use and abuse
drugs like you, have no place in everyday society. You are a burden on hard work
ing, honest people that try to move forward everyday. You just get in the way by
staying still and only dwelling on one thing. So, sorry to all who I just offen
ded, but I dont give a fuck. Coming to this site was a mistake, it way the straw
that broke the camels back. Im so sick.of looking out my door, walking through
my neighborhood, and seeing these leeches of society, so selfish, so caught up i
n feeding their habit, so insistent on pursuing this lifestyle, that they have n
o regard for their fellow man. They dont care that they will rob and steal and h
urt another, just so they can have what they think they need. If you are in pain
, go to the doctor, get some legit meds. And stay away from the crack cocaine. G
et rid of the smack, and quit acting like its so cool to act like an idiot.
Well, this will be erased in less than 5minutes. Just haf to get that ou
t. Its an epidemic.

I find that a good first gen antihistamine or benzo helps potentiate als
o if taking orally have one or two caffeine tabs they help increase the absorpti
on

Many people in this forum are talking about Quinine from Tonic Water. On
Wikipedia I read, Tonic Water contains maximum 83mg/l. Would that be still enou
gh to potentiate the lovely opioide buzz? Considering you drink 1-2 bottles over
a day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water
Apparantly even nicotine increases desired effects of opioids, from some
reading I did last night.
If I'm an opioids and smoke a cigarette, I feel the sedation gets much s
tronger.

They have a compound here that works as an excellent potentiator for mys
elf and contains chlorpromazine, promethazine, and phenobarbital that's called "
Vegetamin A". I thought it was hilarious when I read the name on the blister-pac
k; am I wrong? Regardless, a great potentiator except for the dry-mouth and a li
ttle more noddy than I would like; just giving my opinion, not complaint. I alre
ady knew each was a potentiator in itself, but I think each has a hepatic metabo
lization which means first opies, then the med despite it's late onset.
I once had some nformation downloaded and bookmarked, but due to the fac
t my PC has since crashed and I no longer have said info, I was wondering if any
one, off the top of their head, could tell the name of the little known hepatic
enzyme that can is an excellent potentiator, can actually reduce tolerance (yes
friends, you heard me right), yet requires a script? No, not CYP 450 which I don

't think could be encapsulated anyway.

LEFT OFF AT PG 23:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/534200-The-Ultimate-Opiate-Potentiation-Thre
ad-v2-0/page23?highlight=OPANA