The Top 39 Annoying Things That (Local)

Bands Do

June 17th, 2008 at 3:52pm

Vince Neilstein

Im sure a good portion of our readership are in bands, and Ill bet 99% of those are guilty of at
least some of the below. A venue called The Creepy Crawl in St. Louis has the following posted
on their website [via The Lefsetz Letter], and every single bit of it is so, so true. Enjoy.
Top 39 Annoying Things That Bands Do
1. Bands that feel compelled to bang on their drums and guitars in an annoying display of lack of
talent before the doors open. Usually this occurs when we are trying to talk to someone on the
phone or give instructions to employees. There is a place for this type of behavior, its called your
basement.
2. Out of town bands that show up and say We decided to bring another band with us, dont
worry, they just need gas money and pizza.
3. Out of town bands that watch you order their pizzas with the works and after they arrive tell
you Oh, were all vegetarians, can we get buy-outs instead?
4. Local bands with managers.
5. Local bands that have a girlfriend as their manager (Can you say annoying pain in the ass?).
This usually marks the beginning of the end for most bands at the Creepy.
6. Bands that bring their own personal sound-tech. After seeing him try to operate the
soundboard for 5 minutes the house soundman concludes that this guy has absolutely no clue
how to operate a PA. Accordingly, the band sounds like total shit.
7. Bands that have more roadies than band members.
8. Bands that spell their names with a strange spelling twist e.g., junkeez, katz etc. After meeting
the band, however, we are left with the impression that they didnt intentionally try and spell
their name with a twist but rather they probably just dont know how to spell.
9. The out of town band that was lucky to get the gig, brought absolutely nobody, bitched all
night long about their time slot, when told they had 1 song left in their set play 4 more anyway
who when being paid out $50 in gas money asks Is this the best you can do?

10. Bands that arrive and state that they talked to someone at the club and were told they get to
play 3rd at 10:30 and can play for an hour. When asked the name of the person they talked to
they suddenly forget their name but are sure they talked to someone.
11. Bands who all arrive at the same time but no one is willing to play first. Subsequently the
show doesnt start until 11:30 and everyone has 10 minute sets.
12. Top 3 signs that the band will bring no one to the show 1) 2 Weeks before the show they
say Were gonna pack your place! 2) 1 Week before the show they ask Whats your
capacity? 3) Upon arriving at the gig they ask So how many people do YOU usually get on a
Wednesday night?
13. Bands who draw is so bad that even their guests dont show up.
14. Bands who have no guests because they have no friends.
15. Bands who bring absolutely no one to their first gig and then call back incessantly to ask for
another show and cant understand why they havent gotten asked back. Thats fine, we dont
have to eat this month and we really dig watching you guys rock out to our empty club. Bands
who fit this category dont need to bother calling back because the booking guy will always be
away when you call.
16. Bands who after drawing no one at the end of the night apologize by saying, geez, after you
booked us we booked ourselves to play at the Hi-Pointe last night and we told all our friends to
go to that show, thats probably why no one came tonight. BTW, when do you think we can play
here again? (Note: see above for our response).
17. Bands who pester you to book their bands side-project. Side-project is another name for
self-indulgent crap so embarrassingly bad they cant dignify it with a name and gives them a
cover why none of their friends will come see them perform. (Would you go see your friend
masturbate if they asked you to come watch?). Note to bands: think of your side-project as a
project never to get booked again.
18. Bands who show up wearing All Access laminates around their neck. (Note to these bands:
We honor these laminates for the bathroom and parking lot areas only.) I wanted to be an
astronaut when I grew up but you dont see me walking around wearing a spacesuit at the club.
Were convinced these people are recovering air guitar addicts from the 80s.
19. Bands who right before their set ask to play without a PA so it wont be deducted from their
pay. (This has actually happened before). Sure, well just ask the sound guy to go home for a 1/2
hour.
20. Bands that want to play in front or the side of the stage.

21. Bands that suck and then ask if youll swap them out a shirt. You know, our shirts actually
cost us money and I really doubt anyone at the club wants to wear your shirt. How about if we
swap stickers and call it even?
22. Band members that ask 10 times throughout the night for a water or soda (usually in a nasally
whining voice). Typically this occurs when your in the middle of doing something important like
counting down the drawer or dealing with actual paying customers. They usually like to precede
their requests with a Do you think its possible I could get a. etc. etc. We feel like responding
Do you think its possible you could shut the fuck up and go away?.
23. Parents of bands this could be a whole top 39 list on its own Parents who either a) insist
on standing next to the owner all night and talking his ear off about how great their 14 year old
kids band is (who BTW sound like they had never picked up an instrument in their lives before
they started playing that night) b) insist on standing next to the the soundperson all night and
making stupid suggestions on how to improve the sound of their kids band to the soundperson all
throughout their set c) going to the bar while they wait for their kids band to play, consuming
way too much, and then going to stand next to the owner and talk his ear off about how he used
to jam in a band that was huge 25 years ago but now their kids band is going is going to hit
mega-stardom any day now and makeup for his missed. oh right, this is only supposed to be a
paragraph.
24. Bands that leave gear behind. This happens at least several times each week and then we get
the deluge of frantic phone calls in the following days about have you seen this or that piece of
equipment and on the phone act like we should know where their stuff is. Its amazing how
something that is so important to them the next day gets so carelessly left behind the night
before. Were the Creepy Crawl, not Bobs Nightclub and Repository of Leftover Band Shit.
Keep track of your shit and take it with you when you leave!
25. Bands that send us emails that say: Were XXX from XXX. We wanted to play your club on
XXX date. How about if you book us a show, put a bunch of good drawing locals on that bring a
lot of beer drinkers and then you guys can make a lot of money and we can put on a great show
in front of a big crowd and get paid. That way we all win! Heres an idea, why dont we book a
show with a bunch of good drawing locals that bring beer drinkers, we make a lot of money from
the show and you can keep your sorry asses the fuck in XXX? (Really, were not making this
stuff up, we actually get these emails).
26. Bands who when you tell them they have 1 more song left because theyre running late into
their set decide to play a 45 minute opus full of self-absorbed guitar solos which in the course of
playing covers in its entirety side 2 of Pink Floyds Dark Side of The Moon.
27. Bands that pester you constantly to open for a particular touring band because they swear
they worship their musical footprints and are the heaven endorsed guiding light of their musical
lives. On the day of the show and after you told them sorry but the show was already filled up
they dont even bother to come to the show. However, someone at the show reports hearing they
decided to catch the Story of The Year show at the Pageant that night.

28. Bands that cant play longer than a 15 minute set.

29. Bands that cant draw two people but keep telling you that they can play as long a set as you
like. We can play an hour, an hour and a half, two hours if you want. Thats kind of a like a
doctor rushing to the scene of a car accident and asking the victims If you need me to help
prolong your bleeding I can do that.
30. Bands that bitch and beg to play a longer 45-50 minute set. They do this knowing everyone
else only gets a 1/2 hour slot. We finally relent and rework the whole show to accommodate them
and they still wind up playing the same rush-through-it-because-were-dipfucks 23 minute set
they play every other night they play. Apparently they live in a different time dimension than
everyone else on the planet. They thank you profusely at the end of the set for letting them
headline for their fans but we make sure they buy us and everyone around us shots at full
price.
31. Bands that give big lectures on stage about how important it is to support the scene but at
the end of their set want to get paid ASAP and dont want to wait until the other bands get done.
32. Bands that give long-winded lectures about respect how we need to respect each other, the
world we all live in, ourselves, God, our fellow man, other artists, Picasso, Left-handed
midgets, respect this, respect that etc etc What are these guys in the Mafia? The next morning
you discover the parking spot they were parked in the night before is completely covered with
empty water bottles, soda cans and Taco Bell.
33. Bands that are booked for a show but email every 12 hours to tell you they have changed
their name and to please update your advertising. Call yourself Bobby & the Blowjobs for all we
care, pick a name and STICK WITH IT!
34. Pathetic reasons why bands cancel. Bands that cancel 10 DAYS ahead of time because they
have to go to a funeral! We feel so sad for these bands. Geez, I didnt know your grandpa was
being stored on ice for 10 FUCKING DAYS! Who is he, Walt Disney??? If your going to friggin
lie, try and come up with something half-way believable please.
35. Shows where the 4 local bands collectively cant outdraw the one out of town band you
threw on the bill for gas money but through their own initiative and hustle actually manage to
outdraw the 4 local bands (this BS actually happens!) We feel sorry and embarrassed for the out
of town band who usually when getting paid out their gas money ask us quietly whats up with
the locals, who dont they have anybody come see them? and we tell them as loudly as we can
BECAUSE THEY ARE PATHETIC & RETARDED LOSERS. Invariably (and we do mean
invariably) their has to be the one local band who shoves the out of town band on the way to the
door guy, lives 20 minutes away and brought a negative number of people, (they sucked so bad
they ran off our happy hour crowd early) ask how much did they make and we tell them zero
BECAUSE THE BAND FROM 1/2 A CONTINENT AWAY OUTDREW YOUR PATHETIC
AND RETARDED ASS. Actually we dont say that because were so pathetically nice, we
usually say you guys rocked, let us know when you want to play again!.

36 38: Bands that dont correctly understand the definition of these terms
Load-In Time
CORRECT UNDERSTANDING: If a band has a load-in time of say 6:30 from that time they
may attempt to enter the premises and inquire about loading in of their gear. If they by chance
happen to arrive early they can occupy themselves with other activities to fill in the time, such
as: visit the library, worship at a local church or synagogue or beating up the homeless guy living
in the dumpster.
INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING: If a band has a load-in time of say 6:30 they arrive at 1:45
in the afternoon and knock incessantly on the back door. Usually they knock while the owner is
in the basement knee-deep in standing shit working with a plumber to fix a leaking drain pipe.
After trudging all the way upstairs to find 5 snot nosed kids asking if they can load-in now (and
hang out all day!) they are politely told to fuck off and come back at 6:30.
Promoter
CORRECT UNDERSTANDING: This is a person who actively works to promote a show. They
promote by distributing flyers, plugging the show wherever they can and try to get as many
people as possible to come to the show. If they have an out of town band booked on the show
they take financial responsibility to ensure they get paid and are taken care of in whatever way
they need. They also take charge in organizing the show and making sure all the bands know
when they are scheduled to play and how the money works for getting paid.
INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING: This is a person who after asking repeatedly to put on a
show does the following 1) fails to promote show in any way 2) fails to communicate any show
details like lineup or order of the bands to the club (or the bands themselves) 3) makes
themselves very scarce at the show , assuming they show up (they sometimes make a pathetic
phone call just before doors to say theyve just contracted a rare disease called pussyitis and to
please take care of the out of town band). If they do show up and when questioned about things
like band order, whos taking care of the bands etc. only respond with a blank stare.
Gas Money:
CORRECT UNDERSTANDING: Gas Money is a term used to designate an amount of money to
get a touring band to their next show. It sometimes includes a little more than that so they buy
themselves some fast-food on their way or if they are lucky enough to cover a room at a Motel 6.
Generally gas money would be considered anything from $30 to $75 and depends on how well
the show goes.
INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING: $200 is not gas money. $200 is were partying all night on
the East Side and getting privates at Roxys for everyone in the band.
Touring Band:
CORRECT UNDERSTANDING: This is a band that is engaged on a tour. They come to the
Creepy Crawl while on their tour and often come from far away places such as the far corners of
the country, Canada, Europe or Asia. They are on the road for extended periods of time,

sometimes for several months at a time, in a van or bus and experience many new places along
their journey. These bands are always entitled to at least gas money or more.
INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING: Driving up from Festus does not make you a touring band.
A Following:
CORRECT UNDERSTANDING: A following is a collection of fans that attend the
performances of a particular band. This is what bands try to develop to get ahead in the business
and grow over time and is a measure of their general popularity. The larger a bands following
generally means they will be booked more often and on better nights at the Creepy Crawl
INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING: A following does not mean all the people that attended
The Queens of The Stone Age show you opened for to cover the last minute cancellation of a
contractual local opener counts as your bands following (perhaps the rush to the bar by the entire
club and club staff when you started playing was an indicator). And, yes, this means the Jager
girls at the club that night probably didnt come to see you and probably wont be following you
to your next show.
39. Bands that read this list and then send us emails like this one:
dont take this the wrong way i am just a guitar player but ur annoying list was some what funny,
but it makes u guys seem like a bunch of pricks u would not have ur joint with out the annoying
bands. i frequent ur place when my friends play but if u dont treat the bands that deserve respect
with respect they will not play shows and tell others and so on and so forth just a little
concernced.
rick branstetter
This is just a small sample of annoying things that bands do that we came up with at the
Creepy. We could go on and on with this.

871 comments
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jonny 8 years ago
the one that gets me is 22. guy is actually complaining about pouring water in a
cup and handing it to someone. um....isn't that kinda in the job description? you
know there is this new invention called a "water cooler". big orange things with a
"faucet" or "spigot" down near the base of the contraption. you fill them up with
water and put them out on the floor where people can see them. put a stack of
plastic cups next to it and people can actually get water for themselves! i mean
whoa. technology.
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Lecho jonny 3 years ago
I thought the exact same thing. 22 made them just sound like a bunch of whiny
dicks.
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Guest Lecho 3 years ago
it's because they are! :D
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Zhm33 Guest 3 years ago
This would be a moot point if the Venue did the smart thing, and assigned the
Band a Server, who kept up with the band's food/beverage needs, just as they
would any Guest at their establishment.
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Baph Zhm33 2 years ago

The reason why you are a moron and Ellen Reed is actually correct is because this
list is mainly about LOCAL BANDS. Hence the title. I have no idea where all you
whiney pricks get off thinking your crappy local band is magically at the same level
of a band like Metallica or something. I worked as a stage hand for 10 years at a
1,400 seat concert venue. I can tell you from experience that this list is accurate,
hilarious and completely true. It isn't the writers of this list or people who work at
clubs that are usually the assholes. It is the local fucktards who think that because
they are in a band they are entitled to everything that an actual touring, money
making band is entitled to. You're not. The sooner you learn that the better off you
will be and the nicer you will be treated at clubs. Hell, I have worked with 1000's of
famous musicians and a lot of them are more down to Earth and kind than a lot of
the shit brains in local bands who think they are the next Pink Floyd.
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AllenandTaylor Martin Baph 2 years ago
Hey asshat, Would metallica be playing that pissant bar?! No one I know, and I
know a LOT of people in local bands, are dickheads or feel entitled in any way.
asking for a fucking soda is a bother? Fuck off and I hope your place burns down.
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AllenandTaylor Martin AllenandTaylor Martin 2 years ago
OH! It went out of business a while back! HAHA! Wonder WHy?! lol
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brent AllenandTaylor Martin a year ago
These douchenozzle club owners who make bands sell tickets need to learn how to
operate a real business and actually hire good bands and help promote the show.
Why in the hell would you rely on someone else, especially musicians, to make your
business profit. Musicians are musicians. Business owners promote or hire someone
to promote.

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Travis Squier brent 8 months ago
What makes you think you decide what their business does and how they do it.
Business promoters promote their buiness, not your band. Read the list again, irony
is dripping off you.

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pheet007 brent a year ago
We haven't talked about clubs where owners refuse to sign a contract or guarantee
a minimum wage. Not to mention the days when, in LA in the '80's, you had to pay
to play, and it was not cheap. Whether that kind of thing still goes on I don't know,
but it isn't right. And some of this clubs are absolute shit holes. If I were a lot
younger and had a band, I seriously doubt I'd waste my time on a bar or small club
scene. Let somebody else play covers and cuts off "The Black Album" for the drunk
assholes.

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CHEWBACCA Baph 2 years ago
Having worked in the Industry my self for many years , as an in house stage tech
and local crew and stage manged , managed venues , band booker , promoter etc...
I have worked with the likes of Metallica , Iron Maiden , Fear Factory , Megadeth ,
Foo Fighters , Def Leppard , Jimmy Page , Aerosmith , Deep Purple , Smashing
Pumpkins , Hanoi Rocks , Fantomas , Avril Lavine , BB King , just to name a few
And they are all less demanding , less mentally & emotionally exhausting !!!
Local bands how - ever , playing pub sized venues or landing a support slot opening
for an international in a bigger venue... can be the biggest pains in the arse i have
ever had the misfortune of dealing with !!!

A bunch of winging , wining, tanty, throwing precious princesses , total diva's !!!
Barely lift a finger to promote their own shows , and then complain to me about it
when no one turns up to see them , and demand to be treated like they are filling
stadiums !!! Where''s my limo , smoked salmon , champagne , strippers , cocaine ,
helicopters ??? Thats the kind of attitudes I have had to deal with , then of course
your the biggest arsehole in the world if you tell them the truth about them selves
to them !!! 80% of them are total Fucktards !!!
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TREX CHEWBACCA 2 years ago
I've handled pretty much the same as you mate (Reading, Glasto, etc etc etc)...
and I have to agree with you totally! - whiny little fuck bags. I've been playing for 18
years and not once as a local band did we make demands, ask for anything special
or other. Practice at home,rehearse your set,know your fucking set and rock out.
Once you've done your time and you have at least 2 personal groupies that follow
you around, then and only then... can you ask NICELY for a glass of water. Until
then... GET IT YOUR FUCKING SELF YOU LAZY SNOT FACED LITTLE PRICK!
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Baph CHEWBACCA a year ago
@Chewbacca I have also worked with Fear Factory, Megadeth, Foo Fighters,
Smashing Pumpkins and B.B. King. And I will raise you Marilyn Manson, Tool, Pantera
<--as an opening act in 1990. Green Day, Run DMC, GWAR, Nine Inch Nails,
Soundgarden, Slayer and even The New Kids on the Fucking Block. LOL, not kidding.
There was one show and I can't remember who headlined. But the opening act was
some douchey little band from Michigan. (I'm in Ohio) This whiney opening band
was demanding all sorts of shit including putting up their back drop. Even though
the head liners back drop was already up there and it is a huge pain in the ass to
have to switch back drops between bands. The name of this no-name, whiney,
douchey, opening band was Kid Rock. What an ass.
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Audeath Emmanuel Baph a year ago
The dude paid thousands$$$ for his flag.. it suck when the tech dont want them
to use the actual setup... 5 minute is an easy move to make the event looks better...
I know there is tons of stupid local shits but there is also some noob promoter kids
and bar owner who want to do cash with beer and absolutely dont cares about
bands and the actual events... I agree Kid rock is probably an ass!

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BAR CHEWBACCA 2 years ago
I think the guys that you describe in your last paragraph (whining, tanty throwing
princesses) are all in this comment section :)
They can't believe the audacity of someone writing a list that exposes how much of
a pain in the ass they are and how worthless their bands will be because of it.
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Butterflyeleven Baph 2 years ago
Well said! The whole list is hilarious & TRUE!!!
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Ed Butterflyeleven 2 years ago
It totally IS a true and hysterical list! It's incredible how many butt-hurt musicians
are on here and insanely offended by this - as if it's talking about them personally
(maybe it is). I don't get it.
If this list isn't funny to someone, it's because they're not in the scene.

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Anat Rosenblum Baph 7 months ago
100% correct.

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FU.pussies Baph 2 years ago
Puss!!!

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Baph FU.pussies a year ago
@FU pussies Moron. Try reading a book without pictures for you to color in.

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Ellen Reed Zhm33 2 years ago
A server. who the fuck do you think you are? Royalty. ya just a person who can get a
drink before going on stage. Im a promo and a musician and this list stopped me
putting on gigs. you are a person ,same as the guy givin ya a gig. he has no server
ya dick
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chrischevko Ellen Reed 2 years ago
This was barely readable^^
101


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Forrealz Ellen Reed 2 years ago
How hard is it to have a server serve drinks? Lord, you're an idiot.
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Angrybartender Forrealz 2 years ago
Serving drinks is easy. It's the not making any money part and having to deal
with your stupid bands bullshit that is the problem.
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DrinkingOnTheJob Angrybartender 2 years ago
Yes! In some situations the band is being paid a percentage of the bar sales(as is
in my establishment). It drives me insane when I'm busy behind the bar slinging
drinks and a band member starts shouting what he needs over everyone else. The
faster I pour the more money we all make. The patrons need to have a good time
and return for more shows above all else.
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calling all gods DrinkingOnTheJob 2 years ago
Amen !! I get bands for my bar lol
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eddie Angrybartender 2 years ago
There was a club here in CT that designated a server for the band, and a generous
tip went far- to the point where my first drink was by my monitor before I was done
loading in (and before I even ask).
The point, and the point of this whole damn article, is that it is all in how you treat
people.
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Joe Scott Angrybartender 2 years ago
Why don't you quit your fucking job then douch bag! People like I would love to
punch in the fucking face! here`s an idea why instead whine about bands and their
problems and maybe try to help instead like help with advertising like they use to
do. If people don't know a particular is playing then how the hell are they going to
show up? Clubs seem to forget that That actually use to work . I`m not saying that
band are not a part of the problem but the clubs could help more too not just for
them selves either! Whiny bunch of bitches!
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SheWlf Ellen Reed 2 years ago
I think he meant at places that already have servers on the floor, not having
someone serve the band exclusively. I cocktailed at a venue where when you had
the section of the floor where the stage was, you took care of the bands along with
your tables, and the bands tipped accordingly.
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Alexander Zhm33 2 years ago

Because they don't have servers at shitty bars.

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jon smyth Zhm33 2 years ago
who the fuck are you? Lars fuckn ulrich???
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Michael Perkins Zhm33 2 years ago
and so that comes out of their cut for the night.

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John Billigen Lecho 3 years ago
ill tell you what i would never even want to book my band there they do sound like a
bunch of whiny little bitches most of the Bars that we play for one dont charge a
cover so we charge a set amount for shows, and that is always agreed upon when
the show is booked, this club seems like it wants the band to do everything, yeah
sure the club provides the venue but if the club does nothing to promote the gig
especially for an out of town band then thats on the club not the band, we have play
some travel shows for a couple clubs and have done well with internet promotions
but normally ill tell the booking agent that we cant promise a huge turnout from our
local fans because of DUI laws they just cant be expected to drive to come see us, it
has always been my understanding that Clubs would hire a band or dj to come
entertain the clubs crowd
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Ellen Reed John Billigen 2 years ago
I was a promo in Ireland and the bands got up to this shit with me also. they knew
I was a single mum with no job and sometimes topping up money with my social
welfare and they were still dicks. and if ya gonna need a drink, get it before ya go
on, How can I do it when Im at the door trying to get you your money so I dont have
to pay it again eh.The 1 guy at the bar cant do it.
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Forrealz Ellen Reed 2 years ago
No one gives a shit that you're a single mother. So are millions of other people.
Perhaps you should get a different job?
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Joel Wilson John Billigen 2 years ago
Amen Brother JohnIf I travel 2 hrs. or more with my Motorhead tribute and no one
is in attendance, DON'T blame us. Try learning how to run a cluband ADVERTISE!!!
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Baph Joel Wilson a year ago
A lot of times it isn't the sole responsibility of the club/bar to advertise a show.
Yes some clubs are bad at it or do nothing. But a band that is a tribute band should
take it upon themselves to advertise their own show as well. Hell, ANY band should
do this if you are on the local circuit. Go and read stories about how much the L.A.
punk band Black Flag would print up flyers and spend entire days putting up flyers
all over the place. Hence their shows usually had good attendance. Point is that
both the club and band are there to make money, therefore it is the responsibility of
both parties to promote the show.

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Ellen Reed Lecho 2 years ago
go look at oing gigs for anybody and some good bands are loosing outmy post. 22 is
there because if you know your gonna need a drink, get it before you go on
stage.How can I get you a drink when Im on the door and there 1 man t bar. Bands
like this have put me off doing any gigs and good bands are loosing out.
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Forrealz Ellen Reed 2 years ago
I am glad you are no longer doing gigs you sound like a complete moron.
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The Icon Forrealz 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I'm in a band and you sound like a prima donna douchebag, Forrealz.
Fuck you. You're nobody special. Just another guy in a band that means nothing to
most of the world. It sounds like you're one of the assholes that gives us all a bad
name. Die motherfucker.
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Freeze jonny 3 years ago
Did you motherfuckers really write days worth of comments about a fucking water
cooler? Good god almighty....
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Ed jonny 3 years ago
So you think putting A WATER COOLER in a CLUB is a good idea? How long you think
it'll be before it's totally trashed?
Looks like you BOTH missed the point of 22...being that "Typically this occurs when
your in the middle of doing something important..."
And no, getting you water is not in their job description.
If your timing is consistently bad when whining about something, you're going to
make any staff sick of you. If you were their shoes, you'd feel the same way.
This whole list describes nothing but the club owners wasting their time with
worthless bands that bring no one to their clubs yet want to be compensated
regardless. They're not going to spend MORE money on making sure there's a nice
water cooler for you.
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matt Ed 3 years ago
Why are you acting like club owners have no control over these bands... I mean
come on, who booked them in the first place? If you don't want whiny kid bands
don't book them. Easy!
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Ed matt 3 years ago
They don't know a band until they've already booked them. Would you rather
they not give anyone a chance in the first place? They get good bands, but then
there're the annoying ones that promise big audiences and then, don't come
through. At all. Yet they still want to be compensated.
Check out the list again - they say that those bands don't get asked back to play.
So they're way ahead of you - they don't book them again.

I used to play in local bands for several years, and I can vouch for at least 90% of
this list. Easily. The amount of people I saw doing exactly what they're talking about
here is totally true. And it's funny as hell to read about it now!
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dchris24 Ed 3 years ago
"they don't a band until they book them"? Seriously? Any self-described booking
agent or promoter who doesn't have a good idea about the bands they're booking
needs to find a new job and is as much or more of the problem then shitty local
bands.
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Ed dchris24 3 years ago
They're not there to wipe kids noses. Bands say all the right things to get into a
club, then when they show up, it's a different story. Are you not reading the list?
The amount of whining musicians that feel victimized by this list makes it even
more hilarious - and makes the list even MORE on point :)
PS oh yea, they DID get out of the business: this club closed.
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dchris24 Ed 3 years ago
Oh, Ed....yes, I've read the list, but it's apparent, as I and others have noted on
here, that you have no idea what you're talking about and that's why you (oops,
your friends) are no longer in business.
I have no doubt that these things on these lists happened. I also have no doubt
that this is what happens and what you can expect when you're a shitty promoter or
booking agent dealing with shitty, unprofessional bands. I don't see much whining
on here, and certainly none from me. I've never done any of these dumbshit things

on this list, nor do any bands I've associate with or play with. What people are
responding to is the fact that there are plenty of amateur, idiot "promoters" who
have just about as much business doing booking as these dumbass bands do
playing-zero.
Regarding "bands say all the right things"....that's why you have "new talent"
nights, etc....to test the bands out and weed out the idiots before placing them, and
yourself, in a weekend/headline situation that makes both of you look stupid. I could
expound further, but as your prior comments have shown, I don't think you have a
clue as to what you're talking about.
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ceedee dchris24 3 years ago
Well said and i agree, sounds like unprofessional employed establishment dealing
with amateur bands. I know this sort of things happen but rarely with professional
venues and promoters, one should do a list on these as well so we all can see why
these things happen
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Ellen Reed ceedee 2 years ago
This happens to everybody who puts on gigs. big and small. If you dont like this
list then you must be 1 of the people doing this shit then eh.
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Scott Patrick Pomroy Ellen Reed 2 years ago
Really now? I have put on hundreds of shows without these problems. How do
you ask? We research the out or town bands. There's a thing called the internet that
helps with that. Nowadays if you can't find anything about them on the internet it's
probably because well they suck!!!!!
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17 Things Local Bands Just Dont Get

1. Trashing other bands in your scene isnt hurting their rep. Its hurting yours.
2. Acting disinterested with folded arms at the back of the room at other bands
shows does not make you cool. Singing along at the front of the stage does.
3. Looking like a rock star isnt as important as sounding like one.
4. Image is actually important. Cargo shorts are for dads at a barbecue. Not for
musicians on stage.
5. Being respectful and friendly will take you much further than being superior and
entitled.
6. Going to other bands shows is THE most important thing you can do to support
your scene.
7. Your scenes gatekeepers are friends with each other. Get in with one and youll
get in with them all. If you piss one off, prepare to be blacklisted.
8. You dont need press to pack a show. You need a strong work ethic
9. Physical promotional materials are still incredibly important. Get out into the
world and put up some posters and hand out some flyers. Dont spend all of your
time on Facebook.
10. Facebook is dying. If your entire promotional plan relies on it, youre doomed.
11. You need to conquer your hometown before you can hit the road. If no one cares
about you locally, what makes you think people will care about you anywhere else?
12. Touring means nothing unless people actually show up to your shows. Do not
tour unless you know how youre going to get a crowd at every show.
13. Playing around town all the time weakens your draw. Spread out your shows so
you can promote one big show every 6-8 weeks.
14. HOWEVER, when youre starting off, you need to play out everywhere and
anywhere all the time to get practice. Record every show. Once YOU love listening
to your live set (and non-friends and non-family tell you they love your band) then
you can book real shows and charge a cover.
15. If you suck, you do not deserve to be paid. Get good first. Then you can start
charging.
16. No one in the industry cares about how good your music is. They care about
how successful you have become on your own.

17. Go out of your way to help others in your scene. It will eventually come back
around.
Ari Herstand is a Los Angeles based singer/songwriter and the creator of the music
biz advice blog Aris Take. Follow him on Twitter: @aristake
10 Things You Should Never Say On Stage
1. Were Having Technical Difficulties
Even if your guitar just caught fire. Well actually, that would be hilarious if you said
it then. But when bands sheepishly admit it into the mic, its uncomfortable and kills
the vibe. Technical difficulties are your fault. Even when theyre not. Its your stage.
Its your show.
You should know your gear inside and out. If something is cutting out or screeching
or feeding back, you should either know immediately what it is and be able to
remedy it in 13 seconds or know how to quickly figure out what it is.
Its your job, as the performer, to command the attention of everyone in the room
from start to finish.
2. I Forgot The Lyrics
The worst is when singer/songwriters sing a line like I forgot this next line la la la.
That is so annoying. Not funny. If you cant memorize your lyrics then bring a lyrics
sheet on stage as reference. Or make shit up on the spot.
The only thing worse than shitty lyrics is forgotten lyrics.
3. I Want To Thank My Girlfriend
Its like having a one on one conversation with someone in the audience off the mic.
Uncomfortable for everyone else in the house.
Leave her out of it. It makes you look whipped. If she did something truly awesome,
then you can say something like wed like to thank our friend Sarah for getting this
song into the hands of the music supervisor at Parenthood.
If your girlfriend needs to be publicly thanked for her support then you have bigger
issues you have to work out.
4. Im Sorry
Dont ever apologize on stage. It makes you look weak. I dont care if you just
dropped a baby. Dont apologize.
Making excuses for your shittyness makes everyone in the house uncomfortable
and feel bad for you. I hear it all the time: I forgot the rest of the song. Sorry. Im
sorry if this song sucks, we just wrote it. Im sorry there arent more people here.
We havent rehearsed this much, it might suck.
Own the stage. Own the room. Own your set. Or dont show up.
5. Your City Sucks
Should be a no brainer, but I cant tell you how many touring bands Ive seen make
fun of the city they are in ON STAGE. It may be fun to joke about in the van, but
your audience takes pride in their city. No matter if you think their city is cool or not.
Never say anything negative about the town you are in while on stage unless you
want a beer bottle thrown at you.

6. This Song Is About My Grandma Who Died Of Cancer. Love You Nana.
Dont depress your audience. You can play a song about your dead grandma, but
you dont need to tell the audience thats what its about.
People dont pay money to come to shows to be sad. They come to be happy. To
have fun. To be enlightened. To be inspired.
If you cant communicate the power of your song by just playing it, then maybe the
song isnt really that good.
7. Im Broke
Dont make your audience feel bad for you. It removes the mystique and coolness
factor. You can say help us get to the next city and pick up a T-shirt. That offers an
emotional appeal in a positive light.
But saying were broke, so buy a t-shirt, just turns your audience off.
Guilting your fans into buying your merch never works.
8. You Guys Suck
Even if 95 out of the 100 people are screaming above your acoustic set while
smashing glasses and vomiting in the corner, 5 people are engulfed in your set.
Never insult your audience. They always have one ear to you even if you are just
background music.
You may think no one is listening, but youll be surprised at how many compliments
you get and how much merch you sell once you hop off stage.
9. Any Requests
Youre never going to get the songs that you actually have prepared and there will
always be that one asshole who yells Free Bird as if he just came up with the joke.
Play your set as is. If someone drove 300 miles to hear one song, shell yell it out
whether you ask for it or not.
10. How Does It Sound
This is a slap in the face to the sound guy. Never ask the crowd that. It should sound
amazing. If it doesnt, then its either your fault or the sound guys fault. Either way,
you just pissed off the one person not in your band who can actually make you
sound WORSE.
Photo by meddygarnet on Flickr used with the Creative Commons License
Ari Herstand is a Los Angeles based singer/songwriter who has played over 550
shows and the creator of Aris Take. Listen to his new album, Brave Enough, on
Spotify. Follow him on Twitter: @aristake

The 13 Most Insidious, Pervasive Lies of the Modern Music Industry

Lie #1: Great music will naturally find its audience.

The Lie: The greatest music and artists will eventually connect with their audiences,
naturally, thanks to a perfectly-lubricated, social, and borderless internet.
Our kids are going to watch exactly what they want to watch, not necessarily
whats marketed to them, then Topspin CEO Ian Rogers said as recently as 2010,
while constantly underscoring that quality is hyperefficient.
The Truth: Just like the analog old days, most great music gets left behind and
wallows in obscurity if not substantially backed or otherwise supported financially.
In fact, the biggest songs on the planet are often those blasted the loudest on the
biggest platforms and oftentimes, granted the most money from major labels (ie,
Katy Perry, Pitbull, Flo Rida, etc.)
Lie #2: Artists will thrive off of Long Tail, niche content.
The Lie: The musical landscape will increasingly be dominated by smaller and
smaller artists, with smaller (but stronger) audiences. And, they will all make more
money through direct fan relationships.
Forget squeezing millions from a few megahits at the top of the charts, Chris
Anderson famously wrote in his groundbreaking Wired article that started a
misguided revolution. The future of entertainment is in the millions of niche
markets at the shallow end of the bitstream.
The Truth: Instead of unleashing a torrent of successful niches, the internet has
actually made blockbusters bigger than before. All while artists starve down the
tail.
So, while the tail is very interesting, the vast majority of revenue remains in the
head, Google CEO Eric Schmidt brutally revised just a few years later. And this is
a lesson that businesses have to learn. While you can have a Long Tail strategy,
you better have a head, because thats where all the revenue is.
Lie #3: The death of the major label will make it easier for artists to succeed.
The Lie: No more major labels to choke the supply! No one to hold the artist back!
The Truth: Sadly, the avalanche of unfettered, unwashed content was never quite
filtered by the music fan. Instead, it was all mostly tuned out, except by a small
number of trusted curators. Which means, most artists are deluged in all that stuff,
and have a hard time gaining traction.
Weve had 10-11 years of American Idol, so youve had 100 or 110 top ten people,
and you can count on your hand the number of careers that have sustained off of
that, Irving Azoff said late last year. So that just tells you that even with the
massive exposure of network TV, how hard it is to make it in the music business.

Lie #4: There will be a death of the major label.

The Lie: Major labels will die out completely, while unleashing a utopia of contractfree, liberated artists.
The Truth: Majors are weakened but far from dead. But more importantly, they are
still controlling popular music and its consumption, and building and maintaining
artist careers. Its the reason why Jay-Z is still signed with a major, and why
Macklemore did a deal with Warner Music Group.
Its also the dirty little secret behind Amanda Palmers current name brand (youre
welcome, Roadrunner).
Lie #5: Digital formats will produce far greater revenues than physical.
The Lie: The absence of major manufacturing overhead, shipping, and brick-nmortar retailers will drastically reduce costs and pave the way for greater revenues
and income.
The Truth: Digital sales volumes are not only lower, but an era of singles eviscerated
marked-up, album bundles. And the current era of digital dimes means that pertrack, per-stream, or per-whatever payouts are far lower.
These days, artists that can actually sell physical (like vinyl and CDs) make more
money. The same is true for nations: Japan is now the largest recorded music
market in the world, thanks largely to strong CD and physical sales (and even
rentals).

Lie #6: The real moneys in touring

The Lie: If artists just give away their music for free, and let it be social and freeflowing, theyll make it up on the road.
The Truth: Fabulously true for artists like Pretty Lights and plenty of EDM artists, but
not most other artists. In fact, most artists are struggling to survive on the road,
and even established names have been forced to can tours because the money just
doesnt make sense (see Imogen Heap).
Lie #7: Theres an emerging middle class artist.
The Lie: Internet-powered disintermediation will create a burgeoning middle class
of artists. Not the limousine, Bono-style outrageous superstars, but good musicians
that can support families and pay their bills.

The Truth: There is no musician middle class. Instead, the music industry has
devolved into a third world country, with a wide gulf between the rich and
struggling/starving poor.
And, those ambitious middle-class artists that try to make ends meet by spending
350 days on the road are probably not raising very good families.
Lie #8: Kickstarter can and will build careers.
The Lie: Superfans will come out in droves to support their favorite artist projects,
and power their awesome careers.
The Truth: So far, its happened for Amanda Palmer, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Murder
by Death, and a few other artists. Which is great for those artists, but most
irrelevant for the broader artist community.

Lie #9: Spotify is your friend.

The Lie: Streaming on Spotify will make artists money, if they just wait long enough.
The Truth: Spotify will make Spotify and Wall Street tons of money, if theyre really
lucky. And theyve already made tons of money for major labels, not artists.
And even superfans rarely stream enough to equal the nice, upfront, transparent
royalty offered by an iTunes Store download.

Lie #10: Google and YouTube are your friends.

The Lie: Google and YouTube have anything but their own profit-maximization goals
in mind.
The Truth: This is business, not altruism, not matter how it gets spun. And, the
interests of Google and rights owners are diabolically opposed and will continue to
be so. Which also means that anything that is DMCA-compliant is ultimately great
for Google, and fantastically bad for content owners.
So if you want exposure, go to YouTube. If you want a paycheck, find it somewhere
else.
Lie #11: If Pandora could just lower royalties, they could then survive, and really
help all the artists out there.
The Lie: Sadly, Tim Westergrens bubble is making him one of the biggest
boogeymen of the modern-day music industry. In an impassioned (but largely

deceiving) letter to artists, Westergren asked artists to sign a Congressional petition

asking for lower royalty rates for internet radio.
The Truth: What Westergren forgot to mention was that by signing the petition,
artists were also supporting their own rate cut, which led to high-profile protests
from groups like Pink Floyd. Meanwhile, Westergren whose Pandora cashouts now
surpass $1 million a month has devoted endless amounts of time towards both
publishing and recording royalties in the courts and Capitol Hill.
Lie #12: T-Shirts!
The Lie: Not only is the money in touring, but artists will make a killing off of merch
table sales and t-shirts.
The Truth: Very, very few artists are (a) supporting themselves through touring, and
(b) if they are, making tons of money from merch. Sadly, the greatest merch tables
sales came from CDs that is, up until the early 2000s or so. It supported tours
then, it doesnt support anything now.

Lie #13: Streaming is the future

The Lie: Access will trump everything, and lead to a better, richer music industry for
everyone.
The Truth: Lets see what this green pasture ultimately looks like. Spotify is
hundreds of millions deep in financing without a profit; Rhapsody is laying people
off; YouTube has been subsidizing free music access for years.
So heres your future: YouTube, which has driven the price of recorded music most
aggressively towards $0, will be around tomorrow. Spotify, Rhapsody, Deezer, Rdio,
and Pandora may not be so lucky.