Introduction:

We must first of all know that the entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is
mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption! "`How can you say, "We [the
Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the
scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise,
and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has
made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the
Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a
lie!
See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the
corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of
Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this
corruption.

What is the punishment for

rape in Christianity and in
Islam?

In Christianity:
Christians follow the laws of the Bible only. All of their religious sources, laws and
verdicts come straight from the Bible (if we were to have true Christian countries
where Church would rule over the State), except for Roman Catholics where they
have other Volumes written by Church Fathers and Popes. But most Christians in the
world have no religious resources other than the Bible.
Therefore, let us look at what the Bible says regarding this issue:
Rape is a big crime that could actually take the woman's or the victim's life away. Let
us examine how Christianity deals with the rapist: "If a man happens to meet a virgin
who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay
the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her.
He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy
22:28)" Although this Verse from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only
verse in the entire Bible that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or
anything, but the Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational
and quite ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her
rapist. My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped
female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her rapist?.
Also, the Bible seems to promote raping of single women: "But if out in the country a
man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has
done this shall die. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:25)" This is quite an
interesting verse. We see in Deuteronomy 22:28 that if a man rapes a single woman
then she will be forced to be his wife, while if a man rapes a married woman or a
woman who is spoken for, in Deuteronomy 22:25, then he shall be put to
death. There is absolutely no punishment for the rapist of a single woman in the
Bible. For those Christians who think that they don't have to follow the Old
Testament, well my answer to them is this: The Old Testament prohibits for the
brother to marry his sister, or for the son to marry his mother. The New Testament
doesn't even talk about it. Does that mean that a Christian brother can marry his
sister? or a Christian son can marry his mother? Jesus himself anyway ordered his
followers to follow the Old Testament, so their argument is totally invalid.

Question to Jews and Christians: How is the Bible supposed to prevent some loser
from stalking the most beautiful single woman in town, rape her, and then sue her in
court to become his wife so he can continue raping her for the rest of her life?!

My rebuttal to Quennel Gale's "What is

the punishment for rape in Christianity
and in Islam?" article.
(His Exodus verses have nothing to do with rape!)

The Old Testament condones rape?

(Brother Sami Zaatri's rebuttal to Sam Shamoun)

Rebuttal by brother Karim with lexical

references!

Punishment for rape in Islam:

In Islam, we follow the laws of the Noble Quran, and the Sayings of Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him. If a situation or case is not addressed in neither the
Noble Quran, or the Sayings of our beloved Prophet, then we follow the local verdicts

of our Religious Authorities, where they would decide based upon the cultural and
social situation and causes.
Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran:
"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with
authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and
His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable
for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 4:59)"
"God did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle
from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of God, sanctifying
them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had
been in manifest error. (The Noble Quran, 3:164)"
"Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye
that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner. (The
Noble Quran, 5:92)"
"(We sent) clear proofs and the scriptures. Now, We have sent you this reminder
(Quran) so that you may demonstrate the revelations to them. Perhaps they may
reflect and ponder! (The Noble Quran, 16:44)"
"When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge
it. If they had only referred it to the Apostle, or to those charged with authority
among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them (direct). Were
it not for the Grace and Mercy of God unto you, all but a few of you would have
fallen into the clutches of Satan. (The Noble Quran, 4:83)"
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in
their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just
and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and
prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy
burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him,
honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they
who will prosper. (The Noble Quran, 7:157)"

"Say: "Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible
for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be
on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The
Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"So establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity; and obey the Apostle; that ye
may receive mercy. (The Noble Quran, 24:56)"
"Ye have indeed in the Apostle of God a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one
whose hope is in God and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of
God. (The Noble Quran, 33:21)"
"It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by
God and His Apostle to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys
God and His Apostle, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path. (The Noble Quran,
33:36)"
"The Day that their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire, they will say: "Woe
to us! Would that we had obeyed God and obeyed the Apostle!" (The Noble
Quran, 33:66)"
"It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to
rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and
Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;- (The Noble Quran,
62:2)"
"So obey God, and obey His Apostle: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Apostle is
but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly. (The Noble Quran, 64:12)"
Since the punishment for rape doesn't exist in the Noble Quran, but exists in the
Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, then the verdict or law for
punishing the rapist according to Noble Verses 4:59 and 4:83 above must come from
our beloved Prophet's Sayings.
Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this issue:
The following information was sent to me. Let us look at how Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer,
a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and
when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a
company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They
went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought
him to her.
She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah
(peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man
who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man
who did it to her.
He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about
the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.
He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had
repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud,
Book 38, Number 4366)"
Saudi Arabia today applies the death penalty for the punishment of rape and other
cases as well. The following quote was taken from an article from CNN.COM
regarding the punishment of a rapist. He was punished to death:
"Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer and Washington's closest Arab ally for
more than a half century, follows a strict interpretation of Islam that calls for the death
penalty for murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed
robbery. (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/07/20/saudi.beheading.ap/index.
html)"

Here is an article that I copied and pasted from CNN.COM:

From http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/08/24/saudi.beheading.ap/index.html

"Two

executed in Saudi Arabia

for rape, drug trafficking
August 24, 2001 Posted: 11:48 AM EDT (1548 GMT)
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded a Saudi man
for raping boys and an Indian for drug trafficking, the Interior Ministry said.
In the capital Riyadh, Saudi citizen Dowaihi bin Mohammed al-Qahtani was executed
after he was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping and raping boys, the ministry
said in a statement carried by the official Saudi Press Agency.
Seyed bin Mahboub Amir, from India, was executed in Riyadh for smuggling an
unspecified quantity of heroin into the kingdom, according to the statement.
Friday's executions bring to at least 74 the number of people beheaded this year in the
kingdom, where executions are carried out in public with a sword. Last year, 125
people were beheaded.
Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam that demands the death penalty for

"

murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed robbery.

Very Important Note: In Islam, determining the case as a rape case is important and
would mean the difference between life and death to the man. There is a difference
between a rapist who is caught raping innocent children as shown in the article above,
or someone who forcibly raped a woman beyond her will after stalking her, and
someone went with his girlfriend on his boat (by her own will) to the middle of the
sea, and spent the night there together, and she came back claiming that he raped her.
If a woman seems that she invited a man to have sex with her, or was willing to have
sex with him and both went away and came back later, and then she claims that he
raped her, and he denies that, then her case would be considered invalid, and both of

them would be determined to have had illegal sex, and therefore, both of them would
get punished for it. The point is that, women don't always determine the rape case.
And the men's lives are not under the women's mercy. The woman has to be stalked
and raped in order for her case to be considered a rape case.

My rebuttal to Quennel Gale's "What is the

punishment for rape in Christianity and in
Islam?" article:
This article is a rebuttal to Quennel Gale's article that is located at: http://answerislam.org/Rape.html.

He wrote:
What is the punishment for rape in Christianity and in Islam?
Here we will discuss, Osama Abdallah's misunderstading of Rape in Christianty. He is
desperate in his attempts to discredit the bible and he will even stoop to dumb
accusations like this matter to continue in his superficial endeavors. Here I will post
responses from Nick, a Jew, who isn't a Christian, who embarrassed Osama and his
inability in trying to teach us what the Bible says. I will also offer my commentary.

A10- Rape is a big crime that could actually take the woman's or the victim's
life away. Let us examine how Christianity deals with the rapist: "If a man
happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and
they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He
must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)" Although this Verse
from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only verse in the entire Bible
that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or anything, but the
Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational and quite
ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her rapist.
My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped
female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her
rapist?.
Nick: Osama read properly [dealing with the] Bible verse: "HE must marry the girl"
HE and not SHE!!! This is [the] privalege of [the] girl [to] demand marriage. She or
her father can refuse to marry read EX 22:17.
Quennel: Lets look at Exodus 22:17 from the JPS bible, (Jewish translation which is
much better then NIV) since we are dealing with a Jewish answer:
And if a man entice a virgin that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall
surely pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give
her unto him, HE SHALL PAY MONEY ACCORDING TO THE DOWRY
OF VIRGIN. Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live. Exodus 22:15-17 JPS

We see that Nick has exposed Osama and his lack of knowledge of the Bible based on
this verse. Ladies and Gentlemen this is the type of misinformation that is ever present
on Muslim websites like Osama's. They know absolutely nothing about the Bible.

Also, the Bible seems to promote raping of single women: "But if out in the
country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only
the man who has done this shall die. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy
22:25)" This is quite an interesting verse. We see in Deuteronomy 22:28 that if
a man rapes a single woman then she will be forced to be his wife, while if a
man rapes a married woman in Deuteronomy 22:25, then he shall be put to
death. There is absolutely no punishment for the rapist of a single woman
in the Bible.
Quennel: I will let Nick respond to this and I will respond to the Christian part.
Nick: First of all, [the] raper should pay 50 shekals of silver (quite big amount of
money) - Dueteronomy 22:28. Then girl can demand him marriag and he could
NEVER DIVORCE HER(note HE and not SHE), if she will refuse to marry, then
raper should pay money that [is] used to write Ketuba- marriage contract - Ex
22:17 (in modern Israel it's for example average is about 100 - 200 thousand $).
Quennel: If you look at what the Israeli currency is worth in U.S. dollar amounts,
($.30 for each dollar) that means the average paid out by the rapist would be between
30 - 60 thousand dollars U.S.!!!! That is a large sum of money and it amazing that
God would force the criminal to pay while the U.S. and Islam don't mention any type
of compensation for the victim. Again, another one of Osama's lies exposed for all to
see. In fact lets look at the scripture references for themselves to see how Yahweh God
hates rape:
But if the man find the damsel that is betrothed in the field, and the man take
hold of her, and lie with her; THEN THE MAN ONLY THAT LAY WITH
HER SHALL DIE. But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; THERE IS IN
THE DAMSEL NO SIN WORTH OF DEATH; for as when a man riseth
against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter. For he found her
in the field; the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. If a man
find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie
with her,and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto
the damsel's father FIFTY SHEKELS OF SILVER, and she shall be his
wife, because he hath humbled her; he may not put her away all his days.

This going along with Exodus 22:17 proves that Osama's theory about no punishment
in the bible is the figment of his imagination. He doesn't even know what the bible
says so how can he tell us that there is no punishment for rape in the Bible? Is it
because he doesn't know anything that he is talking about? Yes.

For those Christians who think that they don't have to follow the Old
Testament, well my answer to them is this: The Old Testament prohibits for the
brother to marry his sister, or for the son to marry his mother. The New
Testament doesn't even talk about it. Does that mean that a Christian brother
can marry his sister? or a Christian son can marry his mother? Jesus himself
anyway ordered his followers to follow the Old Testament, so their argument is
totally invalid.

Quennel: This is the part that I will address. For one thing Osama builds a strawman
in claiming that Christians said that they shouldn't follow the O.T. Then he continues
by claiming that the N.T. doesn't talk anything about marrying your sister, etc. Since
Christians obviously know more of what Jesus said than Osama, we follow the O.T.
and because we follow the O.T. there is no need for the N.T. to repeat every single
command for us. We aren't stupid and we can easily read, unlike some people who use
stupid approaches in examining the bible, much like our friend Osama. Christians
aren't allowed to marry their sister or brother because we follow Jesus who is the
fullfillment of the Jewish Law. If Osama picks up a bible and read it instead of posting
text out of content he would easily see this. This is stuff Christians learn in Sunday
school when they are kids, howver since Muslims don't know anything about
Christianity, Osama hopes to play upon their ignorance by feeding them more
misinformation.

My response:
Here we will see how Quennel and Nick are the ones who invented lies and took
verses out of context to cover up for their gospel of porn, the book of women's
vaginas and breasts taste like"wine".

Let us first look at the verses in question:

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes
her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He
must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he
lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)"
"But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and
rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. (From the NIV Bible,
Deuteronomy 22:25)"
As I elaborated in my initial article at: www.answering-christianity.com/que10.htm,
the facts are clear in these verses:

1- Deuteronomy 22:28 is talking about a man raping a virgin who was not spoken
for, for any other man.

2- As a punishment to her, I mean to him, she, I mean he, must marry her, and he
can not divorce her as long as she, I mean he, lives!

3- He must pay fifty shekels as a punishment to her.

4- Deuteronomy 22:25 is talking about a man raping a girl who was spoken for, and
his his punishment is death.
Sound and clear! No more elaboration is required. So what did these two weasels
decided to do? Take some other verses out of context to desperately respond
to Deuteronomy 22:28. Let us examine Exodus 22:15-17 to see who is lying here:

Their lie in Exodus 22:15-17!

Let us now look at the verses of Exodus 22:15-17 in their real context to see if they
truly address Deuteronomy 22:28 or not:
Exodus 22:15-17 (NIV)
15 But if the owner is with the animal, the borrower will not have to pay. If the animal

was hired, the money paid for the hire covers the loss.
16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with
her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.
17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price
for virgins.
Few points to notice here:

1- In Deuteronomy 22:28 above, the girl was raped not seduced. In Exodus 22:1517, the girl had a choice and decided on her own to sleep with him.
Please visit: Is Muta (temporary marriage) allowed in the Bible?

YES, IN

THE BIBLE!

What Christians call "legalized prostitution" is ironically

allowed in their own Bible.

2- Here are the meanings of the words seduce and rape:

a)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=seduce

seduce
tr.v. seduced, seducing, seduces
1. To lead away from duty, accepted principles, or proper conduct. See
Synonyms at lure.
2. To induce to engage in sex.
3.
a. To entice or beguile into a desired state or position.
b. To win over; attract.

b)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rape

rape1
n.
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts,

especially sexual intercourse.

2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.
tr.v. raped, raping, rapes
1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual
intercourse; commit rape on.
2. To seize and carry off by force.
3. To plunder or pillage.

Let us look at more translations of Exodus

22:15-17 for further clarification:
Exodus 22:15-17 (Young's Literal Translation)
15 if its owner [is] with it, he doth not repay, -- if it [is] a hired thing, it hath come for
its hire.
16 `And when a man doth entice a virgin who [is] not betrothed, and hath lain
with her, he doth certainly endow her to himself for a wife;
17 if her father utterly refuse to give her to him, money he doth weigh out according
to the dowry of virgins.
Exodus 22:15-17 (King James Version)
15 But if the owner thereof be with it, he shall not make it good: if it be an hired thing,
it came for his hire.
16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely
endow her to be his wife.
17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to
the dowry of virgins.
Here is the meaning of the word "entice":
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=entice

entice
tr.v. enticed, enticing, entices
To attract by arousing hope or desire; lure: The promise of higher pay
enticed me into the new job. See Synonyms at lure.

So there you have

it. Checkmate to the two
desperate liars!
Rape is the crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual
intercourse.
Seduce is to attract or lead away by tempting.
Entice is to attract by arousing hope or desire.

I dare say that Exodus

22:16 has nothing to do
with Deuteronomy 22:28.

He wrote:
Another small example that shows the weird things in the Bible is the
following: "If a man takes a wife and, after laying with her, dislikes her and
slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, 'I married this woman but when
I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,' then the girl's father and
mother shall bring proof [how do you think they would do that?]that she was a
virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, 'I
gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has
slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is
the proof of my daughter's virginity.' Then her parents shall display the
cloth [the father would literally stick his two fingers covered with a piece of
cloth into his daughter's vagina before she gets married and keep that bloody
cloth for as long as his daughter is married] with before the elders of the town,
and the elders shall take the man and punish him. (From the NIV Bible,
Deuteronomy 22:13-18)" I know very well that the Iraqi and Iranian and
Egyptian Jews do it. The father sticks his two fingers into his daughter's vagina
covered in a piece of cloth and then he goes outside and shows everyone that
she is virgin by displaying the bloody cloth before his daughter's actual
marriage in few hours.
Nick: This is [the] most disgusting false [thing], that I've heard in my life! You are
really sick, IF YOU MAKE UP SUCH THINGS!!!
Quennel: You see how Osama is trying to put false accusations on the Bible! He is
trying to tell Nick something about Jewish culture when for one he can't even speak a
sentence of Hebrew, and when he doesn't even present any credible reference to back
up this slanderous claim. If this was such truth Osama why no reference? Is it because
you can't find one and you had to make this up as Nick exposed you of? Yes. My dear
reader, if the Muslim can't furnish you any credible information to back up their
claims then please laugh and keep going becaus like this, most of their accusations are
nothing more than mere misinformation.

It's quite obvious that the Bible is more like a man made cultural book than a
divine book that is meant to be for all times and all places. Anyway, the Bible
was not even written by its original authors. That is why you see things such as

"And Moses went up to the mountain...." instead of "And I [Moses] went up to

the mountain....", or "And Jesus said to Matthew...." instead of "And Jesus said
to me [Matthew]...." Most of the Books and Gospels of the Bible were written
by third party people that were not even chosen by GOD, which makes the
Bible just a cultural history book rather than a divine book from GOD
Almighty. Please see Question #3 above to see why Allah Almighty allowed
for the Bible to be corrupted.
Nick: Tell me please Osama, why Allah starts his own book with "In the Name of
Allah"????
Quennel: As we see again, Nick has exposed Osama's great theories about the Bible
not being a book inspired by God. For example, why would Allah have to write his
book in this way as well as use third person references when he is supposedly only the
ONE GOD as Islam claims? Lets look at some examples:
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord
of the Worlds, The Beneficent, the Merciful. Master of the Day of
Judgment, Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. SHOW US
THE STRAIGHT PATH, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not
the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray. S. 1:1-7
It doesn't take a genius to see that this truely can't be from Allah. Osama says "And
Moses" etc, but yet Surah 1 says the same thing with Allah. Would he know say that
this isn't from God? Using his own criteria against him, he woul have to. Look at
more of the highlighted parts. Since Muslims believe that the Quran is totally from
Allah using this metholodgy we are forced to conclude that Allah is worshipping
another Allah and that Allah needs another god named Allah to show him the straight
path. If this isn't the case then the Quran isn't totally written by Allah but by men.
More examples of the Quran not being given by Allah is seen here:
"We come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto him
belongeth all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between
these two, and thy Lord is never forgetful." S. 19:6
We must wonder is Allah coming down because he was commanded by Muhammad's
lord. If so is there anther Allah that we don't know about? If we use Osama's
metholodgy we are to believe that this isn't inspired by God. If this isn't Allah coming
down at the command of another one called Allah then these are the words of men and
angels which debunks Islamic idea of all the Quran coming from just God alone.

Osama assumes what he has yet to prove, namely that the Quran is not Muhammad's
words but God's. The claim of inspiration in and of itself does not prove inspiration.
Nor does the fact that an inspired author of scripture that never explicitly claimed
inspiration deny that he was speaking God's words to man.
Furthermore, it is not true that the Quran contains nothing but the words of God since
there are several places where it is clearly not God who is speaking:
"I have been commanded TO SERVE TO LORD OF THIS CITY, Him who
has sanctified it and to whom all things belong. S. 27:91 (read verses 83-93 for
context)
The question begs to be asked if God is speaking who then is the Lord that he serves?
If it is the angels or Muhammad speaking, then the Quran cannot be considered 100%
the word of God. Using Osama's method this is exactly what we find.

My response:
Ironically, even Mary, the mother of your
god, got a finger inserted into her vagina!
From www.answering-christianity.com/fathers_rape.htm:

Fathers sticking their fingers into their

daughters' vaginas before marriage in the
Bible:
The sections of this article are:
1- My personal note and experience with this issue.

2- Males and Females in the Bible did it to females.

3- Fathers sticking their fingers into their daughter's vaginas before marriage in the
Bible.
4- Fathers have full control over their daughters.
5- Why would fathers do that?
6- The entire Bible is corrupted anyway according to its Theologians!
7- How can you justify "digital defloration" to your sister or daughter?

8- Some minority Christians in Europe still do it today!

9- Numbers 31:7, 17-18 further prove that fingers were inserted into virgin girls!
- 3-year old girls were raped by Moses and his men!
10- Rebuttals.
11- Conclusion.

1- My personal note and

experience with this issue:
When I was young, I did hear about this sick tradition once from my father; that
fathers would stick their fingers covered in a cloth, into their daughters' vaginas few
hours before their daughters' weddings, and display the cloth before everyone to prove
that she was a virgin. I heard that it was practiced among some people in the Middle
East in the very old days, especially in the southern part of Egypt, Iraq, Iran and
Morocco. I wasn't sure exactly who these people were, because Egypt has Muslims,
Christians and Jews in it. The southern part certainly is mixed with all these
religions. So it's quite possible that even some Muslims practiced it, even though
there is nothing about this sick tradition mentioned in any Islamic doctrine.
When I read Deuteronomy 22:13-18 in the Bible, as it is explained in details in the
article, I nearly lost my mind! I was in great shock! The Bible matched exactly what
I heard about when I was young.

2- Males and Females in the

Bible did it to females:
Before we get into the fathers and daughters issue, it is important first to know that
some males in the Bible did it to females. Let us look at the following information:
"There were, of course, others who might examine accused brides. Dwyer, 63, notes
the role of doctors in modern Morocco. In pre-modern times this role was performed
by midwives (see Westermarck, Marriage Ceremonies in Morocco, 229f.; Marcus,
p. 324. M. Friedman, Ribbui Nashim Beyisra'el [Tel Aviv: Mosad Bialik etc., 1986],
169-170, 263). According to theMidrash Hagadol, Isaac himself examined
Rebekah digitally before their marriage (Midrash Hagadol to Genesis 24:67 [ed. M.
Margulies; Jerusalem: Mosad Harav Kook, 1967, 411]; according to Pirke Rabbi
Eliezer, chap. 16, p. 38a, the examination consisted of digital defloration [ref.
courtesy of my colleague, Prof. Judah Goldin]). According to the aprocryphal Book
of James, sec. 19-20, Mary was likewise examined digitally for virginity by
Salome (New Testament Apocrypha, ed. E. Hennecke & W. Schneemelcher, 385;
ref. courtesy of Prof. Tikva Frymer-Kensky and my colleague Prof. Robert A. Kraft)."
(http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jwst/4q159.htm) [Note #13, read toward the end of the
note]
(the article is also located on my site)

An AUDIO file (46

seconds) from
the "Banned from the
Bible" documentary film

proving that Salome

inserted her finger into
Mary.
Interpreter's Voice:
Dr. David Scholer
New Testament, Fuller Theological Seminary
(The film can be purchased from the History Channel's web site)
(now is defunct link)

UPDATE!
*** The polytheist trinitarian pagans changed the link on me! ***
The new one is: http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=73144
I wonder if it has something to do with me linking to it from this site!
The film's name is called "Banned from the Bible"
IF THEY CHANGE IT AGAIN:
Go to www.historychannel.com or http://store.aetv.com
and search for the film by name, and let me know, please!

The reason I copied Mr. Jeffrey H. Tigay's article on my site is to prevent it from
vanishing from the internet someday. Many valuable articles were lost without
permanent preservation on the internet.

Anyway, let us look the "digital defloration" key words in his quote:
Digital: "\Dig"i*tal\, a. [L. digitals.] Of or performance to the fingers, or to
digits; done with the fingers; as, digital compression; digital examination."
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=digital)
Defloration: "\Def`lo*ra"tion\, n. [LL. defloratio: cf. F. d['e]floration.] 1. The act of
deflouring; as, the defloration of a virgin. --Johnson."
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Defloration)
Also, Defloration mean: "1. The act of deflowering.
2. Rupture of the hymen, typically in sexual intercourse."
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=defloration%20)
So in other words, digital defloration means inserting a finger or thumb into a virgin
female's vagina to cause her to bleed and take away her virginity. So when Salome
himself did digital defloration to Mary (Jesus' mother), and Isaac "himself" did digital
defloration to Rebekah, it means that both mentioned men had inserted their fingers
into the mentioned female' vaginas.

3- Fathers sticking their

fingers into their daughters in
the Bible:
Let us look at the following Verses in the Bible: "If a man takes a wife and, after
laying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, 'I
married this woman but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,'
then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof [how do you think they would do

that?] that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to
the elders, 'I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he
has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the
proof of my daughter's virginity.' Then her parents shall display the cloth [the father
would literally stick his two fingers covered with a piece of cloth into his daughter's
vagina before she gets married and keep that bloody cloth for as long as his daughter
is married] with before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and
punish him. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:13-18)"
Here is a more clear translation from Hebrew Resources: "The girl's father and
mother shall produce the evidence of the girl's virginity before the elders of the town
at the gate. And the girl's father shall say to the elders, "I gave this man my daughter
to wife, but he had taken an aversion to her; so he has made up charges, saying, 'I did
not find your daughter a virgin.' But here is the evidence of my daughter's
virginity!" And they shall spread out the cloth before the elders of the town. (From
the New JPS translation, Deuteronomy 22:15-17)"
The New JPS translation of Deuteronomy 22:15-17 makes it even more clear about
having the parents of the girl displaying the bloody piece of cloth before the elders of
the town.
According to the Talmud, the cloth should be "A cloth of less than 3 square
finger-breadths. (From the Talmud, Eruvin 29b-30a and Succah 16a)", and
before it is being used, it should be "soft, woolen and clean. (From the Talmud,
Niddah 17a)"

4- Fathers have full control

over their daughters:
The thing that we all must know is that the father in the Bible has full control over his
daughters. Let us look at few quotes from Talmudic and Biblical resources:
The father has the right to force their daughters into marriage: "The father has the
obligation to marry off his daughters. (From the Talmud, Kiddushin 29a, 30b)",

and "Marrying off one's daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible,
even to one's Slave. (From the Talmud, Pesachim 113a)"
The father even has the right to sell his daughter as a servant (slave girl) to other
men: "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.
If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be
redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with
her. (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 21:7-8)"
There is even pre-arranged marriage before the child is even born!
People before they are even born are arranged for marriage: "A Divine Voice
announces who a soon-to-be-born boy and girl will marry when they grow up. (From
the Talmud, Moed Katan 18b, Sotah 2a, Moed Katan 18b and Moed Katan 18b)"

A small rebuttal to the Christian "Answering Islam" team, between me (Osama

Abdallah) and Jim:
Jim- Defloration is the act of rupturing the hymen during sexual intercourse.
Therefore the man can't stick his hand into the woman's vagina according to Mr.
Abdallah. How can you have sexual intercourse and then stick your hand and a cloth
at the same time in a woman's vagina. Make no sense does it? Then again most of Mr
Abdallah's material makes no sense.
Osama- Who mentioned sexual intercourse here Jim? The woman's virginity can be
taken through a person's hands, a father's finger inside his daughter. As I showed
above, "digital defloration" means inserting a finger or thumb into the woman's
vagina.
I had some Christians raise high objections to this point, and some had even criticized
me of being a "liar". Well, beside from the above references that clearly prove my
point, if you still do not believe me then go and seek it among OLD MIDDLE
EASTERN Jews for yourself. Also, using your own personal common sense, explain
to me what the Bible means by "her parents shall display the cloth" and its
relationship to the girl's virginity? If the husband is the one to take his wife's
virginity through sexual intercourse, then what would having the girl's parents
displaying "the cloth" have anything to do with it?

You might then think, then how would the husband be able to know whether his wife
was ever touched by another man if her father took her virginity away from her before
marriage?
My answer to this question is that some men can tell by instinct whether their wives
had previous relationships before when they sleep with their wives. This however is
very difficult and doesn't apply to all men, especially when their wives are good in
faking it. In the old Jewish culture fathers were to take their daughters' virginity and
must keep the bloody cloth for as long as their daughters were married as a solid
proof.
That is why the Bible mentions "the cloth" and orders the parents to use it as a
proof. Using your own common sense, the cloth would not be a clean one like anyone
you have at home. It has to be a bloody one.
These laws however are not GOD Almighty's Laws, even though they are considered
as such. These are old Jewish Laws that had corrupted the Bible:
"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV
Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise,
and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has
made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible
with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!

5- Why would fathers do

that?
Back in the old Biblical days, if a girl commits fornication, she would bring a big
shame to the family. The family would lose their reputation and respect in the town.
That is why you see Biblical verses such as the following:

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she
profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. (From the NIV Bible, Leviticus
21:9)"
"...and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss. (From the New Jerusalem Bible,
Ecclesiasticus 22:3)"
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born
a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the
separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his
foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her
purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the
sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE
child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall
continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days. (From the NIV Bible,
Leviticus 12:2-5)"

6- The entire Bible is

corrupted anyway according
to its Theologians!
The Bible itself admits that it has been tampered with and corrupted by man's
alterations and corruptions:
"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV
Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise,
and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has
made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

And regarding who wrote the books and gospels of the Bible, well here is a sample of
what the NIV Bible's theologians and historians wrote:
"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark.
They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of
vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel
probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible
Foot Notes, page 1528)"
"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and
inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was
Luke. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1643)"
"The writer of this letter does not identify himself, but he was obviously well
known to the original recipients. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1856)"
"The letter is difficult to date with precision....(From the NIV Bible Commentary,
page 1905)"
"It seems safe to conclude that the book, at least in its early form, dates from the
beginning of the monarchy. Some think that Samuel may have had a hand in shaping
or compiling the materials of the book, but in fact we are unsure who the final
author or editor was. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 286)"
"Although, according to tradition, Samuel wrote the book, authorship is actually
uncertain. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"
"The date of the composition is also unknown, but it was undoubtedly during the
monarchy. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"
"The author is unknown. Jewish tradition points to Samuel, but it is unlikely that he
is the author because the mention of David (4:17,22) implies a later date. (From the
NIV Bible Commentary, page 360)"
"Who the author was cannot be known with certainty since the book itself gives no
indication of his identity. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 368)"
"There is little conclusive evidence as to the identity of the author of 1,2
Kings. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"
"Whoever the author was, it is clear that he was familiar with the book of
Deuteronomy. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"According to ancient Jewish tradition, Ezra wrote Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah
(see Introduction to Ezra: Literary Form and Authorship), but this cannot be
established with certainty. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 569)"
"Although we do not know who wrote the book of Esther, from internal evidence it
is possible to make some inferences about the author and the date of
composition. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 707)"
"The unknown author probably had access to oral and/or written sources....(From
the NIV Bible commentary, page 722)"
"Regarding authorship, opinions are even more divided....(From the NIV Bible
Commentary, page 773)"
etc...
Please visit: Just who were the original authors of the Bible? to see the book's
bibliography to the above quotes.
Also, why don't you visit: Contradictions and proofs of Historical Corruptions in the
Bible, and see exactly what I mean, instead of acting like a total fool and saying things
that even the Bible refutes in it!

7- How can you justify

"digital defloration" to your
sister or daughter?
As we've seen above, it was part of the old Jewish culture to do digital defloration
(inserting a finger into the vagina) to women. Mary, the mother of Jesus, even got
digitally deflowered herself! I'd like to ask all Jews and Christians this simple
question:

How can you justify to your daughter or sister that it is Biblically and religiously
OK to insert a (middle) finger (whether by male or female; it doesn't matter) into
her vagina to take away her virginity?
I mean, beside the woman's husband, who should really have the authority to
touch her in her private like that?
And also, could Jeremiah in Jeremiah 8:8 meant exactly this when he said that the
Jews had so badly corrupted the Bible and turned it into a "lie"?
"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold,
the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah
8:8)"
As we've seen above, Deuteronomy 22:13-18 absolutely could not have referred to the
husband covering his penis with the cloth and inserting it into his wife's vagina. The
verse clearly talked about the cloth being in the parents' possession, and it clearly
referred to having the evidence right before the wedding night.
So, could this digital defloration by the bride's relative (whether it is her father,
mother, brother, sister, or what have you) be nothing but a ridiculous LIE that was
put in GOD Almighty's Holy Mouth as a Revelation sent from Him as Jeremiah
8:8 above clearly suggests?
I'll let you answer this for yourself.
Also, could Islam be the Truth, and the Bible be the mix between Truth and falsehood
as Muslims claim? Could Islam really have been foretold by previous Prophets?
Please visit: The Scientific Miracles in the Noble Quran and Islam.
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was foretold by the name in several Books
and Gospels in the Bible.
The original name for GOD Almighty in Aramaic and Hebrew was indeed "Allah". See proofs
from Hebrew and Aramaic resources. Aramaic was the language that Jesus peace be upon him
spoke during his ministry. Also, according to the Bible, "Yahweh" was not GOD Almighty's
original name. It was "Allah". See proofs from the Hebrew resources.

8- Some minority Christians

in Europe still do it today:
The following two posts were sent to me by Anna C., may Allah Almighty further
Lead her to Islam. Ameen. They contain a link that has a story about old-fashion
Christians in Europe practicing this Biblical law. For the sake of readability, the
structure of every post that is stored on my site is as follows:
Name
Email
Subject
Date (automatically populated)
Content
-------------------------------------------------------------Anna C.
<I decided not to reveal her email address>
http://www.answering-christianity.com/fathers_rape.htm
3/14/2005
I think, on the issue of fathers digitally raping their daughters, that it would also be
interesting to note that this custom was also practiced by the Gypsies that lived in the
Iberian Peninsula.
-------------------------------------------------------------Anna C.
<I decided not to reveal her email address>
http://www.answering-christianity.com/fathers_rape.htm
3/14/2005

http://www.andalucia.com/accounts/myfriendsgypsies.htm
I meant nothing ill by the comment, I just found it interesting to note that this was also
practiced elsewhere.
Thank you for your time!
--------------------------------------------------------------

Note: Because I realize that this contribution by Anna C. will offend many of the
Islam-hating Jews and Christians, I decided to keep her email address anonymous.
The link above contains the following quotes:
"But the gypsy wedding I attended was all rejoicing and beauty - albeit of a rather
uncivilised kind, which made it all the more exciting. The lovely 17 year old bride,
our neighbour Paqui, walked down from El Coro (our gypsy neigbourhood) in a cloud
of white chiffon on the arm of her father, Conejo (Rabbit, as he is known), between
two rows of admiring neighbours - even the payos came out to gape. In the great
round church, the mothers of bride and groom stood by the altar until
the priest had finished his standard sermon and then, with great feeling, sang
lamenco marriage chants into the microphone, one of which, I remember, spoke of the
union of "gitano con gitana". As they left the church, a white dove was released into
the air, a symbol of the bride's purity, soon to fly away."
.........
"Paqui was then taken away by the two mothers and an old gypsy woman with a great
mane of white hair, who, it was explained to me, was a virginity examiner (the
actual expression for what she does is sacar la honra, or "display the honour"), who
had been brought especially all the way from Cadiz, at great expense: 100,000 pesetas
for the night's work, which is more than the minimum monthly wage. The reason why
the sacaora, as she is known, has to come from so far away is, they said, to ensure her
impartiality...
An hour later the three women and Paqui (who looked sheepishly proud, as if she had
just been awarded her high school diploma) were back: the "judge" entered
the church screaming and holding up a large white handkerchief embroidered in
each corner with three red roses (this is because, generations ago, three corners of the

handkerchief were twisted together to form a lancet which actually deflowered the
girl, and came out stained in blood). I drew closer and could observe that there was a
yellowish stain in the middle of the handkerchief, which showed signs of having been
creased. The current, more "civilised" procedure is for the judge to wrap the
handkerchief around her finger and introduce it in the vagina to feel, rather than break
the hymen."
(http://www.andalucia.com/accounts/myfriendsgypsies.htm......the color, underline
and bold emphasis added above are mine)
As we clearly see above, those Gypsy minority in Europe are Christians, and among
those Christians, the digital defloration of virgin women before marriage is still

practiced even until today!

9- Numbers 31:7, 1718 further prove that fingers

were inserted into virgin girls!
Let us look at the verses in question:
Numbers 31:7, 17-18 "They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded
Moses, and killed every man.......Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill
every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has
never slept with a man."
You can read the entire story of the Israelites and the Midianites in the short chapter of
Numbers 31 for more details.

Now, few points to mention here:

1- All of the males (infants, children, grown men, and elderly) were killed.
2- Every woman who was not a virgin was also killed.
3- Every girl who was a virgin was saved as a spoil of war.
First of all, we need to picture the whole scenario here so we can get a better
understanding of what exactly went on. After the Israelite's victory over the
Midianites, and after the capturing of all of their lands and people, the thousands of
the remaining Midianite people were gathered at once. The remaining men and all
male children were taken and slaughtered. The women were all lined up
for checking.
Now how do you think they were able to tell who is a virgin from a non-virgin,
especially that all of the men seem to have been killed first. Certainly a newly wed
girl who didn't have children yet could easily deny that she was ever touched by a
man. Do you think the Israelites just questioned the women and the girls and took
their words at face value? Of course not. From all of the evidence that we have in
this article's sections above, and from the clear picture of what took place from events
in the Numbers 31:7, 17-18 verses, there is no question in my mind that:

1- Every single mother was slaughtered along with the men.

2- Every single "young" girl was literally checked by inserting a finger(s) into her
vagina to tell whether she was a virgin or not. Perhaps most likely also, men did the
checking. As we see in the next sub-section, they even inserted their penises into 3year old girls!!

3-year old girls were literally

raped!

We also need to know that according to the Jewish Talmud's elaboration on the
historical events that took place in the Numbers 31, 17-18, Moses and his men
literally inserted their penises into girls who were as young as 3 years old (three years
old). Here is the proof:

From www.answering-christianity.com/age3.htm:

Children
Sometimes one has to read a passage twice to believe what has been written in the
Sacred Books of Judaism: what has been decreed the way to a holy life by the "sages
of blessed memory... whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism" [131]:

Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is
betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has
acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting
intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has
intercourse with her when she is menstruating, to convey uncleanness to the lower as
to the upper layer [of what lies beneath]. If she was married to a priest, she may eat
food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with
her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If
any of those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her had
intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility
[M.Nid. 5:4].
Sanhedrin 7/55B [132]
R. Nahman bar Isaac said. "They made the decree that a gentile child should be
deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15], so that an Israelite
child should not hang around with him and commit pederasty [as he does]."
For said R. Zira, "I had much anguish with R. Assi, and R. Assi with R. Yohanan, and
R. Yohanan with R. Yannai, and R. Yannai with R. Nathan b. Amram, and R. Nathan
b. Amram with Rabbi [on this matter]: 'From what age is a gentile child deemed
unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]'? And he said to me, 'On the
day on which he is born.' But when I came to R. Hiyya, he said to me, 'From the age
of nine years and one day.' And when I came and laid the matter before Rabbi, he said
to me, 'Discard my reply and adopt that of R. Hiyya, who declared, "From what age is
a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]? From
the age of nine years and one day."'

[37A] Since he is then suitable for having sexual relations, he also is deemed unclean
with the flux uncleanness [of Lev.15]."
Said Rabina, "Therefore a gentile girl who is three years and one day old, since she is
then suitable to have sexual relations, also imparts uncleanness of the flux variety."
That is self-evident!
Abodah Zarah 36B-37A [133]

The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah
(filth):

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old
may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And
sages say, "Three years and one day old."
And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are liable
on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And
she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is
menstruating to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. If she was
married to a priest, she eats heave offering. If one of those who are unfit for marriage
has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If one
of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her did so, they
are put to death on her account. But she is free of responsibility.
If she is younger than that age, intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [134]

Thus, one "of the many important issues worked out in the Mishnah concerns proper
conduct with women," [135] and the "entire society of Judaism that is, the
community formed by the Torah found in the Talmud those modes of thought and
inquiry, those media of order and value, that guided the formation of public affairs and
private life as well." [136]
While it is reassuring to see there was at least some limit as to what the sages would
declare holy and moral, this ruling had severe implications on the interpretation of
other topics as well. The Tannatic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in

157 comments on the above quoted commandment of

Moses to kill the Midianite women as well as the male

children:
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that
has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for
intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man...
But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for
yourselves. From here R. Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a
proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry
into the priesthood." [137]

According to the Tannate Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill
all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having
sexual relations." [138]

Bibliography:
[131] Ibid., vol.XXI.A-D, Tractate Bava Mesia, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1990, p.ix-x.
[132] Ibid., vol.XXIII.B, Tractate Sanhedrin 1984, 150. See also vol.XIX.A, Tractate
Qiddushin 10a-b, 1992, 33. "Menstruating" here of course refers to the ritual "flux
uncleanness" described in Lev.15.
[133] Ibid., vol.XXV.A, Tractate Abodah Zarah, 1991, 168. Emphasis original.
[134] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division
of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.
[135] Neusner 1993, 41.
[136] Neusner 1995, 7.
[137] Kuhn 1959, 157, 652f. My translation. In general, proselytes are not allowed to
marry into the priesthood.

[138] Ibid., 157, footnote 86, 653.

10- Rebuttals:
Please visit Further Rebuttals to Jim about Fathers raping their daughters in the
Bible.

11- Conclusion:
The Bible is a book that had been badly corrupted by the man-made Jewish cultural
nonsense through the "scribes". As we've seen above, GOD Almighty condemned the
scribes in Jeremiah 8:8 and said they turned the Bible into a lie. The scribes are man
made laws and lies that had been inserted into the Bible as Divine Revelations from
GOD Almighty. Certainly, the "fathers inserting their fingers into their daughters'
vaginas" law is a scribes' corruption in the Bible.

Further sites to research:

X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.
Raping girls at the age of 3 is allowed in the Jewish Holiest Book, the Talmud.
What is the punishment for rape in Christianity and Islam? See how the Bible
tolerates it and even indirectly promotes it to happen to single women.
Contradicting errors even in Porn in the Bible.

History of man's corruption in the Bible. The Bible was not even written by the
Prophets of GOD and the Disciples of Jesus.
Christianity is the cause of our social corruptions today.
Women rights in Christianity?
Response to the so called "Pornography" in the Noble Quran.
Church Priests/Ministers who changed their sex and still preach in their Churches.
Priests with the AIDS.
Back to women in Islam and Christianity section.

References/Bibliography:
1- The Jewish Talmud.
2- The NIV Study Bible, 10th Anniversary Edition.
General Editor: Kenneth Barker.
Associate Editors: Donald Burdick, John Stek, Walter Wessel and Ronald
Youngblood.
Published at: Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI 49530, USA
ISBN: 0-310-92589-4.

He wrote:
Punishment for rape in Islam
The following information was sent to me. Let us look at how Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:
"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for
prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he
went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to
me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did
such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had
had intercourse with her and brought him to her.
She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah
(peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the
man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am
the man who did it to her.
He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And
about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.
He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had
repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu
Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"

UsSalaamu Alaikum dear brother Osama

I pray that you receive this with great Imaan and in good health. I like to
contribute this for the website, it is an authentic ruling of Islamic Shariah about
[The Punishment of Rape in Islaam]. It also quash the notion of enemies of
Islaam about the women witness because it clearly proves the importance of a
SINGLE woman witness [which decide the fate of man's life] which man don't
have in any religion.

A RAPE IN ISLAAM
The following quote, from the book "Role of Muslim Women in Society" by
Afzalur Rahman (Seerah Foundation, London, 1986),specifically addresses the
issue of _rape_ (as opposed to adultery):
During the time of the Prophet, _Hudud_ punishment was inflicted on the
person who committed adultery on the evidence of the woman who was raped
by him. It is reported by Wa'il ibn Hujr that a woman went out in the time of the
Prophet to go to prayer, and a man who met her attacked her and got his desire
of her. She shouted and he went off, and when a company of the _Muhajirun_
came by, she said: "That man did such-and-such to me." They seized him and
brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allah
has forgiven you," but of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said,
"Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)
This tradition leaves absolutely no doubt of the validity of the evidence of
women in _hudud_ cases. It establishes, first, that in a case of rape, the solitary
evidence of the raped woman, in the absence of their evidence, is considered
sufficient to convict the rapist of the crime; and second, that the evidence of
women is admissable in _hudud_ cases, and that there are no plausible grounds
not to admit their evidence in the Islamic Shari`ah.
In the light of the above hadith, in answer to the original question, it shows that
the evidence of a *single* person, the female victim, can be sufficient to
convict someone of rape according to the teachings of the Messenger of Allah
(s.a.w.)....
The whole confusion over the rape issue to me seems to be that when people
ask about rape, all the answers that are given relate to _adultery_. _Rape_ and
_adultery_ are very different things, since in adultery usually both people are
consensual, whereas in the case of rape the woman is an unwilling victim. To
blindly apply the Islamic rules for adultery for the case of rape to me seems to
be completely absurd and totally unjust, particularly when the above hadith
demonstrates that the situation for rape is different than that for adultery.
To prove a case of adultery, usually you require four eye-witnesses who saw the
act of coitus, except in the special case of when one spouse is accusing another,
when if the accused swears innocence the innocence is accepted, as taught in
the Qur'an. For the case of _rape_, however, the above hadith demonstrates
quite graphically that _four witnesses are not required_, and therefore the case
of rape is _different_ from adultery.

Of course, a bit of sensible thinking also clearly shows why blindly applying
the laws for adultery to the case of rape is unjust.... Unfortunately, though,
many Muslims seem to see no problem with applying the laws of adultery to
rape!
I wonder about to what extent such people have really thought about the
issue....

Nick: Hahaha, right now you blamed [the] Bible, that it doesn't give punishment for
rape (and I showed you that it is not [the] truth) but YOU COULDN'T FIND
PUNISHMENT FOR RAPE IN THE QURAN AND [now] BROUGHT SOME
HADITH!!! QURAN IS A BOOK, THAT DOESN'T GIVE ANY PUNISHMENT
FOR RAPE!
Quennel: Osama's challenge was that there was no punishment for rape in the Bible,
what he fells to state to his reader is the simple fact that the Hadith is his only source
for providing any punishment for this matter!!! Notice the hypocracy and the change
in tone when it came to Islam. Even the Hadiths he use, are considered weak and he
wouldn't even accept them if they put up a particular argument against Islam. The
Hadith literature was composed 200 years after the death of Muhammad. That means
the earliest source that Osama can come up with comes after the fact. One must
wonder why he could only find one Hadith quote and then had to rely on a book to aid
in his arguments. Notice that there are no quotes from Bukhari or Muslim, which are
considered the most authentic Hadiths in Islam!!! Why Osama. And most importantly,
why you couldn't even find a single verse in the Quran dealing with this matter? Does
Allah believe that rape of women is not important to address? Seems like it. Lets look
at how Muhammad looked at women from Osama's own Hadiths and his book the
Quran:
Here we see that not only did Muhammad receive a fifth of the plunder, but also women of his
choice to cohabit with.
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 19, #2991:
Anas said:
A beautiful slave girl fell to Dihyah. The apostle purchased her for seven slaves. He
then gave her to Umm Sulaim for decoration her and preparing her for marriage.
Muhammad was so captivated by this woman's beauty that he gave up seven slaves for her! This
serves to debunk the Muslim myth that Islam came to set slaves free, whereas Christianity drove

men into slavery.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 19, #2992:
Anas said:
Captives were gathered at Khaibar. Dihyah came and said, apostle, give me a slave girl
form the captives. He said, Go and take a slave girl. He took Safiyyah. A man then
came to the prophet and said: You gave Safiyyah chief lady of Quraizah and al-Nadir to
Dihyah? This is according to the version of Yaqub. Then the agreed version goes: She
is worthy of you. He (Muhammad) said, Call him along with her. When the prophet
looked at her, he said to him: Take another slave girl from the captives. The
prophet then set her free and married her.
And,
Narrated Abdul Aziz:
Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there
yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too
and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar
quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet. He uncovered his thigh and I
saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, Allahu
Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then
evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The
people came out for their jobs and some of them said, Muhammad (has come). (Some of
our companions added, With his army.) We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and
the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave
girl from the captives. The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took
Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, O Allah's Apostles! You
gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza
and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along
with her. So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya,
Take any slave girl other than her from the captives. Anas added: The Prophet
then manumitted her and married her.
Thabit asked Anas, O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)? He said,
Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her. Anas added,
While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent
her as a bride to the Prophet. So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, Whoever has
anything (food) should bring it. He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some
brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So
they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage
banquet) of Allah's Apostle. (Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367)

My response:
Two points were raised here:

1- Punishment for rape in Islam.

2- Slave girls in Islam and the Bible.

Point #1:
(Punishment for rape in Islam)

From www.answering-christianity.com/que10.htm:

Punishment for rape in Islam:

In Islam, we follow the laws of the Noble Quran, and the Sayings of Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him. If a situation or case is not addressed in neither the
Noble Quran, or the Sayings of our beloved Prophet, then we follow the local verdicts
of our Religious Authorities, where they would decide based upon the cultural and
social situation and causes.
Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran:

"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with
authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and
His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable
for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 4:59)"
"When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge
it. If they had only referred it to the Apostle, or to those charged with authority
among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them (direct). Were
it not for the Grace and Mercy of God unto you, all but a few of you would have
fallen into the clutches of Satan. (The Noble Quran, 4:83)"
Since the punishment for rape doesn't exist in the Noble Quran, but exists in the
Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, then the verdict or law for
punishing the rapist according to Noble Verses 4:59 and 4:83 above must come from
our beloved Prophet's Sayings.
Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this issue:
The following information was sent to me. Let us look at how Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:
"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer,
a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and
when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a
company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They
went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought
him to her.
She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah
(peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man
who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man
who did it to her.
He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about
the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.
He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had
repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud,
Book 38, Number 4366)"

Some Muslims do not believe in this Saying as an authentic one, because it didn't
come from a "Sahih" (authentic in English) source. It came from "Sunan Abu
Dawud". Sayings of our Prophet's companions and wives narrated in "Sunan Abu
Dawud" are indeed authentic. But Sayings from other people such as Wa'il ibn Hujr
above are doubtful. The only volumes that had been double and triple checked and
are absolutely authentic to the Muslims are the "Sahih" volumes as I mentioned. With
"Sunan Abu Dawud" we have to be extra careful, for it contains truthful and untruthful
narrations about our Prophet peace be upon him.
Saudi Arabia today applies the death penalty for the punishment of rape and other
cases as well. The following quote was taken from an article from CNN.COM
regarding the punishment of a rapist. He was punished to death:
"Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer and Washington's closest Arab ally for
more than a half century, follows a strict interpretation of Islam that calls for the death
penalty for murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed
robbery. (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/07/20/saudi.beheading.ap/index.
html)"

Here is an article that I copied and pasted from CNN.COM:

From http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/08/24/saudi.beheading.ap/index.html

"Two

executed in Saudi Arabia

for rape, drug trafficking
August 24, 2001 Posted: 11:48 AM EDT (1548 GMT)
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded a Saudi man
for raping boys and an Indian for drug trafficking, the Interior Ministry said.
In the capital Riyadh, Saudi citizen Dowaihi bin Mohammed al-Qahtani was executed
after he was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping and raping boys, the ministry
said in a statement carried by the official Saudi Press Agency.

Seyed bin Mahboub Amir, from India, was executed in Riyadh for smuggling an
unspecified quantity of heroin into the kingdom, according to the statement.
Friday's executions bring to at least 74 the number of people beheaded this year in the
kingdom, where executions are carried out in public with a sword. Last year, 125
people were beheaded.
Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam that demands the death penalty for

"

murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed robbery.

Very Important Note: In Islam, determining the case as a rape case is important and
would mean the difference between life and death to the man. There is a difference
between a rapist who is caught raping innocent children as shown in the article above,
or someone who forcibly raped a woman beyond her will after stalking her, and
someone went with his girlfriend on his boat (by her own will) to the middle of the
sea, and spent the night there together, and she came back claiming that he raped her.
If a woman seems that she invited a man to have sex with her, or was willing to have
sex with him and both went away and came back later, and then she claims that he
raped her, and he denies that, then her case would be considered invalid, and both of
them would be determined to have had illegal sex, and therefore, both of them would
get punished for it. The point is that, women don't always determine the rape case.
And the men's lives are not under the women's mercy. The woman has to be stalked
and raped in order for her case to be considered a rape case.

Do I agree with applying the above Saying of our beloved

Prophet peace be upon him and not agree with applying his
Sayings in the case of Apostates in Islam, andPunishment of adultery in
Islam?
The above Saying of our beloved Prophet doesn't conflict with the laws of the Noble
Quran, because only adultery/fornication was addressed in the Noble Quran and not
rape explicitly for the "illegal sex" cases. In the case of "Apostates in Islam" and
"Punishment of adultery in Islam" articles, I showed clearly that the Sayings of
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him were temporary and Allah Almighty meant
for them to be temporary, because Islam was still partial and the Muslims had to deal

with many hypocrites from the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], and fix
many social problems and corruptions that people used to live by before Islam. Allah
Almighty in the Noble Quran set the Bigger Law for the two situations that must be
followed for all times and all places.
It is important to know that many Muslim scholars believe in applying the punishment
for adultery to the rapist, since as I said, the Noble Quran only addresses
adultery/fornication for the "illegal sex" cases.
I personally think that since the Saying of our Prophet didn't exist in any of the
"Sahih" volumes, which are the authentic volumes for his Sayings, then following this
Saying in all cases would be seem to be unfair to the rapist, because (1) We don't
know if the rapist in the Saying was a single or married man, which would make
the difference between flogging him 100 stripes and stoning him to death; and (2) We
don't have other witnesses other than the narrator for the validity of the Saying.
Important Note: Even the "stoning to death" for the married adulterer/adulteress is
ambiguous, because it seems that Allah Almighty had replaced this law with the
"flogging of 100 stripes" one. This is verified at this article.

Point #2:
(Slave girls in Islam and the Bible)

From www.answeringchristianity.com/prisoners_of_war.htm#killing_captives_is_f
orbidden:

Here is how Deuteronomy

20:13-14 read:
Deuteronomy 20:13-20
13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite
every male thereof with the edge of the sword (even the unarmed ones):
14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city,
even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil
of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are
not of the cities of these nations.
16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an
inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the
Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God
hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done
unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou
shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat
of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to
employ them in the siege:
20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt
destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh
war with thee, until it be subdued.
In the following verses we see the following:

1-

All men, including the unarmed ones, were to be executed (Deuteronomy

20:13).

220:14).

All women and children were to be taken as spoils of war (Deuteronomy

3-

For the others, kill and destroy every creature that is breathing - that is all men,

women, children and animals (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

My open challenge to Jews

and Christians:
Jews and Christians today often talk about the lie of "Islamic Terrorism". I openly
challenge any Jew or Christian to produce ONE, JUST ONE Noble Verse from the
Muslims' Noble Quran that condones killing of innocent children, women or even hostile
enemy men who drop their weapons before Muslims (surrender).

See the Rights of Prisoners of War in Islam.

Allah Almighty Said in the Noble Quran:
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew
the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of
the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs,
yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The
Noble Quran, 5:32)"
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God
loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
Allah Almighty also Commanded UNCOMPROMISED Justice:
"O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For justice, as witnesses To Allah, even as
against Yourselves, or your parents, Or your kin, and whether It be (against) rich
or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (Of your hearts), lest ye
Swerve, and if ye Distort (justice) or decline To do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted
With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)"
Yet, we see mass slaughters as shown above and in the following links, and even rape
of 3-year old girls in the man-altered, man-fabricated and man-corrupted bible:

He wrote:
The Hadith shows how Muhammad was so fascinated with women until he couldn't
even control himself as shown above. Osama can't find a single verse talking against
rape in the Quran, the reason why is because women are nothing more than sex object
in the sight of Allah and the Quran:

As to the righteous, they will be in gardens and in happiness... (to them will be
said,) "Eat and drink ye with profit and health, because of your (good) deeds."
They will recline (with ease) on thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We
shall join them (in the original: marry them) to companions with beautiful,
big and lustrous eyes... And We shall bestow on them, of fruit and meat,
anything they desire. S. 52:17, 19, 20, 22 (see also 4:57; 76:12-22; 55:54-56;
47:15)
Even more astonishing is this description:

"Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and

vineyards, and maidens of SWELLING BREASTS (kawa'eb), like of age,
and a cup overflowing." S. 78:33 Arberry (see also Dawood, Rodwell)
Ibn Kathir, one of Islam's premiere commentators, notes:

"Kawa'eb" - "SWELLING AND FIRM, NOT SAGGING." (Quoted from M.

Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton, Place of Women in Pure in Islam, p. 30)
To imagine that God would reveal such a verse, wherein he would actually say that in
paradise one will find women who literally have firm breasts is incredulous.
The idea of having sexual relations in Paradise has led some Muslims to interpret
these passages metaphorically. This in turn has prompted the assumption that the
description is merely a poetic attempt to describe that which is indescribable.
Unfortunately for these scholars, Muhammad will not allow for such an interpretation.
In Sahih Muslim, no. 6793 and 6794, we are told:

"In Paradise... every person would have two wives (so beautiful) that the
marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be
none without a wife in Paradise."
According to Ibn Kathir's commentary on S. 56:35-37, a Muslim will be given
seventy specially created females with two of his earthly wives, for a total of seventytwo maidens in Paradise.
In Mishkat Al-Masabih, Muhammad indicates:

"The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual
intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! Can he do that? He
said: 'He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.'" (Bk. IV, chp.

XLII, Hadith no. 24; transmitted by Tirmizi who classified this Hadith as
sound)
Even more amazing is this statement from Muhammad:

"The Prophet was asked: 'Do we have sex in Paradise?' He answered: 'Yes, by
him who holds my soul in his hand, and it will be done dahman, dahman. And
when it is finished she will return pure and virgin again.'" (Ibn Kathir's
commentary on S. 56:35-37)
An editorial footnote to Ibn Kathirs translation indicates that the word dahman means
intercourse done with such "shove and disturbance." (Ibid.)
Finally, the Quran speaks of women as tillage that one can plow into anyway they
choose:
"Your women are a tillage for you, so go to your tillage as you will." S. 2:223
According to some Muslim sources, this verse was revealed to condone anal sex:
Narrated Jabir:
Jews used to say: "If one has sexual intercourse with his wife from the back,
then she will deliver a squint-eyed child." So this Verse was revealed:"Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will.
(2.223)" (Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 51)
Need we say more? Men can plow into women anyway they choose, which explains
why Hajj Allah doesn't talk about any verse dealing with rape. Muhammad killed
many men and married their wives so why should Allah have anything to say about it.
We see that Osama's idea of rape in the bible is flawed and we see that he can't
provide a single verse showing that the Quran talks against it. Nick a Jewish friend of
us both exposed him and it is very embarrasing to say that least that a guy like this is
trying to teach Christians and Jews what the Bible says. Osama looks good to ignorant

Muslims but however you will never see his site proclaimed anywhere over the
internet.
Osama's link discussed is here: Question #10 Rape in Islam and Christianity

My response:
It's funny how the polytheist trinitarian pagan makes fun of Islam on something
his gospel of porn, the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste
like "wine" supports.

From: The 70 Houris for men, who will live like kings, in
Heaven is actually supported by the Bible!

Does the Islamic Paradise

really contradict the Bible's
Paradise? Will there be
physical pleasures in Heaven?
Note of contradiction:

Below you will see how the NT said that Heaven has
no marriage in it, while Genesis called Eve a "wife" and our "mother".

More and more we hear of ignorance from Christians who criticize Islam for claiming
that Paradise will have physical pleasures in it similar to the ones that we have here on
earth. Personally, I've heard cheap comments before about the 70 Houris for men in
Heaven and how the Prophet, peace be upon him, "promised horny desert men" sex in
Paradise.
Bashing is easy, and believe me, nothing is easier than bashing the gospel of porn
bible for claiming that women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and that sisters
can look lustfully at their biological brothers and wish to have sex with them in bed.
All of the quotes from the gospel of porn are locate at: X-Rated Pornography in the
Bible.

Note:

The exact number of 70 Houris is not mentioned in the Noble Quran. It is

only mentioned in the Hadiths (collections of the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad,
peace be upon him). But Houris were mentioned in the Noble Quran. So the number
is most likely true, even though the Hadiths were collected centuries after the natural
death of the Prophet. In other words, the possibility of the Hadith being corrupt (most
of the Bible is mostly corrupt), is slim because the Noble Quran supports the narration
by mentioning the Houris as shown at the end of the article. Please visit: What parts
of the Hadiths and Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and Why?
Now having said all of that, let us now get technical here. The answer to the questions
above is quite simple and requires no 50-page lengthy article to prove it.

The Creation of Adam and

Eve in Heaven!
Before we begin, I'd like to describe what the Garden of Eden is according to Islam
and the Bible:

In Islam:

Narrated Abdullah bin Qais: "Allah's Apostle said, "Two gardens, the utensils and the
contents of which are of silver, and two other gardens, the utensils and contents of
which are of gold. And nothing will prevent the people who will be in the Garden
of Eden from seeing their Lord except the curtain of Majesty over His
Face." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 401)"
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Qais: "The Prophet said, "(There will be) two Paradises of
silver and all the utensils and whatever is therein (will be of silver); and two Paradises
of gold, and its utensils and whatever therein (will be of gold), and there will
be nothing to prevent the people from seeing their Lord except the Cover of
Majesty over His Face in the Paradise of Eden (eternal bliss)." (Translation of
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 536)"
To see the details of Heaven in the Noble Quran, please visit:
Would you describe Heaven and Hell in Islam?

In the Bible:
When GOD Almighty created Adam, peace be upon him, in the Garden of Eden (one
of the Gardens of Heaven), He created him in our physical form today:
Genesis 2:7-9
7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his
nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put
the man he had formed.
9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the groundtrees that were
pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life
and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:14-16
14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And
the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it
and take care of it.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the
garden;
The earth that we are living on today is the worst and lowest land that GOD Almighty
Created. It is called the waste land, and it is the punishment that Adam and Eve
received when they disobeyed GOD Almighty:
Genesis 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good
and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of
life and eat, and live forever."
23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground
from which he had been taken.
24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden
cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of
life.
Isaiah 51:3
3 The LORD will surely comfort Zion and will look with compassion on all her ruins;
he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the
LORD. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing.
Ezekiel 28:13
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby,
topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your
settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were
prepared.
Ezekiel 31:9
9 I made it beautiful with abundant branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden in the
garden of God.
Joel 2:3
3 Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like
the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste nothing escapes them.

Several important points to notice:

1- Eden is a vast Heaven (as also shown in the verses below). Adam and Eve
initially existed in a Garden that existed in the Heaven of Eden, which is why it was
later called the "Garden of Eden".

2- Notice how GOD Almighty literally took Adam and placed him in the Garden of
Eden (Genesis 2:15) and then banished him and his "wife" (see Genesis 3:17, Genesis
3:20 below) out of it into the waste land, earth (Genesis 3:23, Ezekiel 28:13, Joel 2:3).

3- The names of the rivers such as Tigris and Euphrates don't mean that these are
the same rivers that we have here on earth, in Iraq today! It is quite possible that
Adam named several earthly places on earth the same as Heavenly ones to keep the
good memories of the Blessed Days alive. There is a city in Yemen today called
"Eden". Yemen as a land and its city of Eden are far from being a place like Paradise.
As we further see in the following verses, Eden was called the "Garden/Heaven of
GOD" while earth was called "waste land".

4- The book of Genesis is not original. It is a rewrite and it also had been tampered
with. While it is similar to the Islamic Accounts regarding Adam, Eve and Heaven,
but only the Noble Quran and the Islamic Claims are original and truly Divine. See
the Bible's own theologians' comments regarding the corruption of the book of
Genesis.

Further proofs from Wikipedia Encyclopedia:

Also, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden:
"In the tale the garden is planted "in" Eden, and accordingly "Eden" properly denotes
the larger territory which contains the garden rather than being the name of the garden
itself: it is, thus, the garden located in Eden."

As we clearly see above:

Eden was called

the Garden/Heaven of
GOD!
Our Earth was called
a "waste land"!
After GOD Almighty finished Creating Adam, He decided to create a mate for him.
GOD Almighty literally took Adam's rib (which proves that Adam had a physical
body) and created Eve, peace be upon her, from it. There is no question that Adam
and Eve had physical bodies that even had genitals in them too! The proof for this
is simply our bodies today, and the purpose of our genitals is to enable us
to "multiply" (Genesis 8:17, Genesis 9:7). That is why GOD Almighty Created a
male and a female. I wonder how Adam and Eve were supposed to "multiply"if they
didn't have genitals.
Now before I go any further, let me raise the following questions:

1- Why did GOD Almighty Create genitals for Adam and Eve in Heaven?
2- Why did GOD Almighty, from the first place, create male and female in Heaven?

The answer is simple and its given above: To multiply!

Later on after Eve was created, we are taught that she ate the forbidden fruit after she
got tempted by the devil, which caused both Adam and Eve to be kicked out of
Heaven. Now, let me raise the following questions:

1-

Did Adam and Eve have sex during the days before they got kicked out of

Heaven? If not, then why not? Wasn't she created to be his mate? Did they not then
have physical contact with each others for the, perhaps, long years that they lived with
each others in Heaven before getting kicked out of it?
Genesis 3:17
To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about
which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of
you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
Genesis 3:20
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
These verses called Eve a "wife" and a "mother". Now assuming that Adam and
Eve never got kicked out of Heaven, then how would exactly Eve become a "mother",
who already was a "wife" in Heaven?

Wouldn't it be through sexual intercourse with Adam

that would eventually lead to impregnation?

Also, the fact that Eve was Adam's "wife" in Heaven and was meant to be eventually
the "mother of all the living", then there is no doubt that Adam and Eve
did consummate (have sex) in Heaven! Otherwise, how exactly was Eve
a "wife" to Adam? What do husbands and wives do?

2-

Since GOD Almighty Created love and sexuality, and Adam and Even certainly

had genitals in Heaven, and they loved each others, and they were a husband and a
wife, then give me one logical reason why they couldn't have possibly had sex in
Heaven!

So now that we established that sex did actually occur in the "Bible's" Heaven, or to
say the least, it was not sinful at all, and that it was GOD Almighty's intent to have it
exist in Heaven, then let us now move on to the ridiculous contradictions that the
man-altered and man-corrupted (according to the bible's theologians) New Testament
have created among its followers, the Christians.

The Christians' beliefs

regarding Heaven:
Christians believe that we will be like "spirits" or "Angels" in Heaven without
physical bodies. They believe that once a "Christian" dies, then he/she will go and
live with GOD Almighty as a spirit in Heaven:
Matthew 22:29-30
29. Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the
power of God.
30. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will
be like the angels in heaven.
Obviously this contradicts the very teachings of their very own Bible about Adam and
Eve having physical bodies in Heaven and that they had sex (they were a husband and
wife).

If we will not marry in Heaven, then why was Eve

called a "Wife" in the Genesis verses above?
Wife, marriage, hello??

The man-made contradictions and garbage in the Bible are

sound and clear!
If Eve was not a "wife" to Adam, then how exactly was she supposed to be
our "mother"? Was she Adam's girlfriend? Aren't fornication and adultery
considered a sin in the Eyes of GOD Almighty?
By the way, even if Adam and Eve never had sex, which is a ridiculous theory given
the evidence above, the fact that they had physical bodies (Eve was created from
Adam's rib) in Heavensoundly refutes the lies that were told in the New Testament
about us being only spirits in Heaven!
Briefly, let us look at what GOD Almighty Said in the Noble Quran about the humanBelievers in Heaven:
"They will recline (with ease) On Thrones (of dignity) Arranged in ranks; And We
shall join them To Companions, with beautiful Big and lustrous eyes. And those who
believe And whose families follow Them in Faith -- to them Shall We join their
families: Nor shall We deprive them (Of the fruit) of aught Of their works: (Yet) is
each individual In pledge for his deeds. (The Noble Quran, 52:20-21)"
"For them will be a Home Of Peace in the presence Of their Lord: He will be Their
Friend, because They practised (righteousness). (The Noble Quran, 6:127)"
"And We shall remove from their hearts any lurking sense of injury;- beneath
them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: 'Praise be to God, who hath guided us
to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance

of God: indeed it was the truth, that the apostles of our Lord brought unto us.' And
they shall hear the cry: 'Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its
inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness).' (The Noble Quran, 7:43)"
"And they will say: 'Praise be to Allah, Who has removed from us (All) sorrow: for
our Lord Is indeed Oft-Forgiving Ready to appreciate (service). (The Noble Quran,
35:34)"
"But it is for those Who fear their Lord, That lofty mansions, One above another,
Have been built: Beneath them flow Rivers (of delight): (such is) The promise of
Allah: Never doth Allah fail in (His) promise. (The Noble Quran, 39:20)"
"But those who believe And work deeds of righteousness -- To them shall We give A
Home in Heaven -- Lofty mansions beneath which Flow rivers -- to dwell therein
For aye -- an excellent reward For those who do (good)! -- Those who preserve in
patience, And put their trust In their Lord and Cherisher. (The Noble Quran, 29:5859)"
"And We shall bestow On them, of fruit and meat, Anything they shall desire. (The
Noble Quran, 52:22)"
"(To them will be said:) 'Eat and drink ye, With profit and health, Because of your
(good) deeds. (The Noble Quran, 52:19)"
"Therein will they Recline (at ease): Therein can they Call (at pleasure) For fruit in
abundance, And (delicious) drink; (The Noble Quran, 38:51)"
"(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers
of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of
wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are
for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be
compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling
water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)? (The Noble Quran, 47:15)"
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/heaven_hell.htm)

Open challenge to Christians:

If Heaven has no physical bodies in it, then where did Adam's rib come from which
GOD Almighty used for creating Eve? And what form were Adam and
his "wife" Eve in? Did they have physical bodies?
If you're answer is yes they had physical bodies, then my mission is accomplished in
this article. And to those who have bashing-mouths in regards to Islam promising
men (who will live like kings) 70 Houris in Heaven, along with other pleasures and
Mansions, I think this article will shut their mouths up once and for all, insha'Allah (if
Allah Almighty is Willing).
And by the way, the 70 Houris are 70 servants! They may not necessarily all be for
'sex'. But whether they are or not, that's completely irrelevant, because sex did exist
Heaven!

Also, Out of the Entire Noble Quran, only

five Noble Verses talked about the
Houris, and in only referencing them(only
mentioning them by the name).
So don't think that Islam brags about sex and lust in the
Noble Quran!
It is only the gospel of porn bible that brags about women's privates and calls their
vaginas and breasts taste like "wine".

Another Checkmate to
Quennel Gale, the
ludicrous liar!

Rebuttal to Sam Shamouns article

A Series of Answers to Common Questions
By

Sami Zaatari

http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm

By the end of this article you will see for your self of what a bad job Shamoun has
done in this article. By far this is the worst article I have read, and the worst
explanation or response he has ever given, and the worst article I have ever read by
a Christian. Rather than solve the problem, Shamoun causes yet another problem
as you will see by the end of the article.

He wrote:
Some Muslims claim that the following passage from the Holy Bible condones rape:
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and
they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the
girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy
22:28-29 NIV

At first glance this passage does seem to condone rape. That is, until one takes a careful look at
the context as well as the original languages. We must remember that the Holy Bible was not
written in English. The OT was written in Hebrew, with parts of it written in Aramaic. The NT
was written in Koine or common Greek. This means that if we want to know whether an English
translation has faithfully and accurately translated the inspired author's intended meaning we
must turn to the original language of the sacred text. Once this is done, it will become quite
apparent that the Holy Bible does not sanction rape at all.
In the first place, the word which the NIV translates as rape comes from two Hebrew
words, taphas and shakab. Here are the meanings listed by the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew
Lexicon in reference to these two words:

taphas -

#
1) to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield

08610

a) (Qal)
1)
to
lay
hold
of,
2) to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
b) (Niphal) to be seized, be arrested,
c) (Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)

be

seize,
caught,

arrest,
be

taken,

catch
captured

AV - take 27, taken 12, handle 8, hold 8, catch 4, surprised 2, misc 4; 65

(Source: Blue Letter Bible <http://www.blueletterbible.org/>)

Here is one example of how this word is used:

"The priests did not ask, Where is the LORD? Those who deal (taphas) with the law
did not know me; the leaders rebelled against me. The prophets prophesied by Baal,
following worthless idols." Jeremiah 2:8

shakab -

#
1) to lie down

07901

a) (Qal)
1)
to
2)
3)
to
4)
to
5) to rest, relax (fig)
b)
(Niphal)
c)
(Pual)
d)
(Hiphil)
e) (Hophal) to be laid

lie,
lie
lie
to
to
to

lie
to

down,
(of
down

be
be
make

sexual
(in

lain
lain

AV - lie 106, sleep 48, lie down 43, rest 3,

(Source: Blue Letter Bible http://www.blueletterbible.org/)

lie

with
with
to

lie

lien

2,

misc

on
lodge
relations)
death)
(sexually)
(sexually)
down

10;

212

My Response:
Thank you for the vocabulary lesson.

He wrote:
As Brown-Driver-Briggs demonstrates, the word can be used in relation to sexual intercourse as
well as for other things. The following examples help demonstrate that shakab does not
necessarily imply a forced sexual act:
"And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, Speak to the children of Israel, and say to
them: If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him, and a man lies
(shakab)with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is
concealed that she has defiled herself, and there was no witness against her, nor was she
caught-" Numbers 5:11-13 NKJV

Here, the word shakab refers to a voluntary sexual act between two consenting parties, in this
case to a woman who voluntarily chooses to commit adultery. It is clear that the woman in
question wasn't forced into having sex. Again:
"If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in
water and be unclean until evening." Leviticus 15:18

My Response:
That is all nice. The damage is yet to come.

He wrote:
These examples clearly demonstrate that these terms do not in and of themselves necessarily
imply that rape is in view. This is reflected in the way Deuteronomy 22 has been translated by
the following translations:
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie
with her, and they be found; KJV
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not espoused, and taking her, lie with her, and
the matter come to judgment: DOUAY-RHEIMS
If a man shall find a damsel [that is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and
lie with her, and they be found; WEBSTER BIBLE
If a man find a lady who is a virgin, who is not pledged to be married, and lay hold on her,
and lie with her, and they be found; WORLD ENGLISH BIBLE
When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain
with her, and they have been found, YLT
When a man findeth a damsel that is a virgin who is not betrothed, and layeth hold of her and
lieth with her, and they are found, ROTHERHAM
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with
her, and they be found; JPS 1917 OT
"If a man find a damsel who is a virgin who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her and lie with
her, and they be found, THIRD MILLENNIUM
If a man find a damsel, a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her,
and they be found, DARBY
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with
her, and they be found; AMV
If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are
found, RSV
If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are
caught in the act, NRSV

If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and
they are discovered, NASB
If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are
found, ESV
If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with
her and they are found, AMPLIFIED
Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If
they are caught, CEV

My Response:
Now every single translation he has shown, except the last one show that the verse
does in fact imply rape. Let us quote:
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie
with her, and they be found; KJV

And lay hold on her. Now tell me how does he lay hold on her? Does he do it softy
and gently? Of course not, this verse does show rape. LAY HOLD ON HER, the
verse does not show her being okay with it, when some one comes and lay holds
on you. That is a forceful action taking place, not a simple normal common thing
which does not involve force or aggression. Definitely in the context it shows lay
hold on her in a forceful manner. A man finding a VIRGIN WHO IS A LADY and
LAYS HOLD ON HER and then LIES with her. The text and does indeed show
forceful action.
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not espoused, and taking her, lie with her, and the
matter come to judgment: DOUAY-RHEIMS
If a man shall find a damsel [that is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie
with her, and they be found; WEBSTER BIBLE
If a man find a lady who is a virgin, who is not pledged to be married, and lay hold on her, and
lie with her, and they be found; WORLD ENGLISH BIBLE

This is the same thing, LAY HOLD ON HER.

When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain with
her, and they have been found, YLT

This verse explicitly shows rape and forceful action by the man. He CATCHES
her, CAUGHT her, and then lays with her. That is definitely rape, a man catching
or caught a woman and then having sex with her. The text shows rape.
When a man findeth a damsel that is a virgin who is not betrothed, and layeth hold of her and
lieth with her, and they are found, ROTHERHAM
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her,
and they be found; JPS 1917 OT
"If a man find a damsel who is a virgin who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her and lie with her,
and they be found, THIRD MILLENNIUM
If a man find a damsel, a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and
they be found, DARBY
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her,
and they be found; AMV

This is the same as the KJB and the other Bible's which say lay hold on her, the
text shows rape.
If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
RSV
If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught
in the act, NRSV
If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and
they are discovered, NASB
If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
ESV
If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her and
they are found, AMPLIFIED

This translation also shows rape taking place. A man SEIZING a woman, what
does that mean? That is definitely rape, a man seizing a women and then laying
with her without a doubt is rape, or by seize Christians would like us to think it
means just a man carrying her and both of them laughing and having a good time.
The translations are for all to see, the text shows rape, there is no way around it. So

thank you for all the translations, they still show rape. The damage has yet to be
done.

He wrote:
Now someone may want to argue that the preceding examples do not combine the two words
together as is the case with Deuteronomy 22. Hence, the use of the word taphas in conjunction
withshakab in Deuteronomy implies that the sexual act was forced upon the maiden without her
consent. A careful reading of both the passage itself, as well as its surrounding context, dispels
such a notion. We quote the passage again, yet this time adding the surrounding context for
further clarification:
"But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the
man forces (chazaq) her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.
But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin
deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even
so is this matter. For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman
CRIED OUT, but there was no one to save her. If a man finds a young woman who is a
virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and THEY ARE found
out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of
silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to
divorce her all his days." Deuteronomy 22:25-29 NKJV

Although vv. 25-27 refers to a woman that is betrothed, the point is still clear. By screaming, the
woman indicates that she is being forced to have sex without her consent. Hence, when the
woman does not scream this indicates that she willfully chose to engage in the sexual act with
the man. This is further seen from vv. 28-29 where both the man and the woman are held
accountable, i.e. "and THEY ARE found out." This is unlike the woman of vv. 25-27 who is said
to be not guilty.

My Response:
Now let me just expose Shamoun very badly, not only has he failed to show what
he is saying is true as I will show. He has also managed to insult every female rape

victim out there. I will first expose him on how he insulted every female rape
victim, quoting what Shamoun said:
By screaming, the woman indicates that she is being forced to have sex without her consent.
Hence, when the woman does not scream this indicates that she willfully chose to engage in the
sexual act with the man.

Shamoun has shown his ignorance and has shown how unintelligent he is. So tell
me Shamoun, if a woman is being raped does she have to scream? Did it not occur
to you that several rape victims were UN-ABLE to scream? That they were
threatened with death if they would do so, and that even those who do try to
scream and have screamed are forcefully silenced. The attacker often covers the
victims mouth so they cannot SCREAM or make noise. They do this by either
force with their hands, or they cover it with duct-tape or some other material. So
Shamoun tell me, if a woman is being raped and does not scream because she is
unable to does this mean she is enjoying it and willingly taking part in sexual
intercourse? Shamoun has insulted every female rape victim by such a silly
comment. But believe it or not, that is not the final damage he has done in his
article, more to come. So that stupid point is soundly de-bunked, just because she
does not scream does not mean she is not being raped, and if the Bible thinks like
that, then the Bible is tremendously mistaken.
Secondly let me show that the context does in-fact show rape:
But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the
man forces (chazaq) her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But you
shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of
death

The passages before verse 28 and 29 is talking about a YOUNG WOMEN who is
not a VIRGIN
for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. For he
found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman CRIED OUT, but there was no one
to save her.

The verses are talking about a YOUNG WOMEN, the next verses are talking about
a young VIRGIN WOMEN, big difference!

If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin , who is not betrothed, and he seizes her
and lies with her, and THEY ARE found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the
young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled
her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.

So you can see it for yourself. There is a huge difference between the previous
verses and verses we are dealing with, the verses before 28 and 29 are talking
about a YOUNG WOMAN who is raped. The next passages are talking about a
YOUNG VIRGIN WOMAN. So that is what Shamoun missed. So it is clear, in the
case of a YOUNG WOMEN, the man who rapes her shall die. However so in the
case of a young VIRGIN WOMEN, the man will have to marry her and pay her
father 50 shekels of silver, so it is all clear for everyone.
Secondly note, in the case of the YOUNG WOMEN, it is when they are NOT
FOUND and she is screaming, in the case of a YOUNG VIRGIN WOMAN it is
when she is FOUND and NOT SCREAMING showing more difference to the way
they deal with different types of rape. In the case of the young women when she is
being raped and screaming and no one sees it happening, and they find out later,
the man is put to death. In the case of the young virgin women, when she is being
raped and is not screaming, meaning she is being forced in some physical way
which is why she is not screaming, and some one finds them, then the rapist has to
marry her. Now here is where Shamoun does the damage, Shamoun is trying to
show that verses 28-29 show the virgin is willingly taking part in sexual
intercourse, however so here is the problem.
Problem one is that then this would mean this is having sex without being married,
a grave sin, secondly it shows the Bible condones sex before marriage because
they were CAUGHT and nothing happened to them, but instead they got married to
each other and got away with it! That is what Shamoun believes and is trying to
show, so basically Shamoun's argument shows the Bible allows sex before
marriage and the people who commit it dont get in trouble for it but get away with
it! Thank you for exposing your self, but however so, that lame argument does not
work either, because Shamoun has not paid attention to the verses he posted. Here
is proof that those verses are not about wilful sexual intercourse by both parties,
take note:
But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces (chazaq) her
and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die . But you shall do nothing to the
young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man
rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. For he found her in the
countryside, and the betrothed young woman CRIED OUT, but there was no one to save her

Now here we see the verses saying the women shall not die, but only the man,
why? Because if you have sexual intercourse before marriage the penalty is death,
however so the verses is clearing the women up of any wrong-doing because she
did not WILLINGLY take part but was rather forced to, so there fore she shall not
be put to death for such a sin. However so here is why Shamoun's cheap argument
does not work, let us quote the next passages:
If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies
with her, and THEY ARE found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young
woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he
shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days

AND THEY ARE FOUND OUT. Shamoun is trying to make an argument that both
parties are willingly taking part in such an act, however the reason this does not
work is because both of them were CAUGHT IN THE ACT, therefore if that is the
case then BOTH OF THEM WOULD BE PUT TO DEATH for such a grave sin.
However so, why werent they put to death if they were both taking part in sexual
intercourse in which they BOTH agreed to? The preceding verses(26-27) show that
the young lady should not be killed for such a crime because she is innocent and
did not commit no sin in taking part in sexual intercourse, meaning she did not
wilfully have sex but was forced, so therefore she was not killed meaning that if
she DID TAKE PART IN SEX ON HER OWN ACCORD then she would have
indeed been killed. Shamoun is saying verse 28 is showing the women was
willingly taking part in the act, then there fore she should have been killed along
with the man for taking part in the sin! However they were not killed! Meaning it
was not a one night stand and that she was indeed raped! AMEEN, the proof is
there for all to see!
So not only does Shamoun cheap argument fail very badly, we see that the rape
victim has to marry the rapist if she happens to be a VIRGIN. If the victim is not a
virgin then the rapist gets killed! What absurd laws, the virgin has to marry the
rapist, while the non virgin does not, very bad laws indeed. So Shamoun not only
showed he believes the Bible allows sexual intercourse before marriage which it
does not as I showed from the text. He COMPLETLY failed to show the OT does
not allow the rapist to get away with it, very nice work indeed by Shamoun. The
facts are clear for all to see, the lovely context which Shamoun refers to is his
ultimate downfall.

He wrote:
Also notice that in v. 25 a different word is used when signifying rape, namely chazaq. If the
inspired author wanted to imply that the woman in vv. 28-29 was being raped, he could have
used this same word chazaq; especially since this is the word he uses in the preceding verses to
refer to an actual rape incident. The fact that he didn't use it should further caution us from
reading rape into vv. 28-29.

My Response:
The facts speak for themselves; all can see it for themselves. The text and context
shows rape, I completely crushed you this time.

He wrote:
Also notice that in v. 25 a different word is used when signifying rape, namely chazaq. If the
inspired author wanted to imply that the woman in vv. 28-29 was being raped, he could have
used this same word chazaq; especially since this is the word he uses in the preceding verses to
refer to an actual rape incident. The fact that he didn't use it should further caution us from
reading rape into vv. 28-29.
This is supported by other OT passages. In the places where rape is mentioned none of them use
the word taphas. The words chazaq and anah are used:
"Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to see the
women of the land. And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the
land, saw her, he seized (laqach) her and lay (shakab) with her and humiliated (anah) her.
And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob. He loved the young woman and
spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, Get me this girl
for my wife. Now Jacob heard that he had defiled his daughter Dinah. But his sons were
with his livestock in the field, so Jacob held his peace until they came. And Hamor the
father of Shechem went out to Jacob to speak with him. The sons of Jacob had come in
from the field as soon as they heard of it, and the men were indignant and very angry,
because he had done an outrageous thing (nbalah) in Israel by lying with Jacob's
daughter, for such a thing must not be done." Genesis 34:1-7 ESV

And:
"Then Amnon said to Tamar, Bring the food into the chamber, that I may eat from your
hand. And Tamar took the cakes she had made and brought them into the chamber to
Amnon her brother. But when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her and
said to her, Come, lie with me, my sister. She answered him, No, my brother, do not
violate (anah) me, for such a thing is not done in Israel; do not do this outrageous
thing (nbalah). As for me, where could I carry my shame? And as for you, you would be
as one of the outrageous fools in Israel. Now therefore, please speak to the king, for he
will not withhold me from you. But he would not listen to her, and
being stronger (chazaq) than she, he violated (anah) her and lay(shakab) with her. Then
Amnon hated her with very great hatred, so that the hatred with which he hated her was
greater than the love with which he had loved her. And Amnon said to her, Get up! Go!
But she said to him, No, my brother, for this wrong in sending me away is greater than
the other that you did to me. But he would not listen to her. He called the young man
who served him and said, "Put this woman out of my presence and bolt the door after
her. Now she was wearing a long robe with sleeves, for thus were the virgin daughters of
the king dressed. So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her. And Tamar put
ashes on her head and tore the long robe that she wore. And she laid her hand on her head
and went away, crying aloud as she went. And her brother Absalom said to her, Has
Amnon your brother been with you? Now hold your peace, my sister. He is your brother;
do not take this to heart. So Tamar lived, a desolate woman, in her brother Absalom's
house. When King David heard of all these things, he was very angry. But Absalom
spoke to Amnon neither good nor bad, for Absalom hated Amnon, because he
had violated (anah) his sister Tamar ... But Jonadab the son of Shimeah, David's brother,
said, Let not my lord suppose that they have killed all the young men the king's sons, for
Amnon alone is dead. For by the command of Absalom this has been determined from the
day he violated (anah) his sister Tamar." 2 Samuel 13:10-22, 32 ESV

Notice that neither passage uses the word taphas, providing additional support that this word in
of itself doesnt necessarily imply the use of force. It also demonstrates our point that if the
inspired author had rape in view he could have simply used chazaq, or even laqach, since these
are the very words he used elsewhere to indicate that a rape had occurred.

My Response:
Nothing of importance.

He wrote:
The final line of evidence demonstrating that Deuteronomy 22:28 does not condone rape comes
from Exodus:
"If a man entices (pathah) a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies (shakab) with her, he
shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give
her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins." Exodus 22:16-17

Note that in this passage the word pathah is used in place of taphas. Brown-Driver-Briggs
Hebrew Lexicon defines pathah as:

#
1) to be spacious, be open, be wide
a)
(Qal)
to
be
spacious
b) (Hiphil) to make spacious, make open

06601
or

open

or

wide

2) to be simple, entice, deceive, persuade

a) (Qal)
1)
to
be
open-minded,
2) to be enticed, be deceived
b)
c) (Piel)

(Niphal)

1) to
2) to deceive

to

be
persuade,

be

simple,

deceived,

be
be

naive
gullible
seduce

d) (Pual)
1) to
2) to be deceived

be

persuaded

AV - entice 10, deceive 8, persuade 4, flatter 2, allure 1, enlarge 1, silly one 1, silly 1; 28
(Source: Blue Letter Bible <http://www.blueletterbible.org/>)

As can be seen, the word can mean entice, persuade, deceive etc. The following passage uses the
word in a slightly similar fashion to that of Exodus, namely how God will allure or draw Israel
back to his love:
"Therefore I am now going to allure (pathath) her; I will lead her into the desert and
speak tenderly to her. There I will give her back her vineyards, and will make the Valley
of Achor a door of hope. There she will sing as in the days of her youth, as in the day she
came up out of Egypt. In that day, declares the LORD, you will call me "my husband";
you will no longer call me "my master." I will remove the names of the Baals from her
lips; no longer will their names be invoked. In that day I will make a covenant for them
with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the
ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down
in safety. I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in righteousness and justice,
in love and compassion. I will betroth you in faithfulness, and you will acknowledge the
LORD." Hosea 2:14-20

It is clear from the context that Exodus is referring to a man persuading or enticing a woman into
having sex. Hence, this passage lends support to the fact that the woman in Deuteronomy 22:28-

29 consented to the sexual act, and wasn't forced into having sex. In other words, there was no
rape involved between the man and the woman.
This concludes our exegesis of Deuteronomy 22:28-29. We prayerfully hope that by the grace of
our risen Lord and eternal Savior Jesus Christ, this short paper will be of great help to those
Christians who have been confronted by Muslims with the accusation that the Holy Bible
condones the raping of women. Hopefully, both Christians and Muslims will see that the Holy
Bible nowhere condones rape.
In the service of our great and eternal triune God forever and ever. Amen. Come Lord Jesus,
come. We will always love you, risen Lord of eternal Glory.

My Response:
So in fact you have shown that your Bible allows for sex before marriage.
Although Shamoun's cheap argument of the situation being a one night stand is a
complete joke which I literally crushed, it is still bad enough that Shamoun
believes in it meaning he believes his Bible allows for sex before marriage.
However so the fact is that the Bible has differing laws on rape, if the victim is not
a virgin, the rapist gets killed. If the victim is a virgin then she has to marry the
rapist.
Keep doing such services for your triune God, it only helps us Muslims prove our
case against the bible better. Well that is the end of the rebuttal, Shamoun has hurt
himself bad.
In service of ALLAH the true God, forever we serve you, and indeed Jesus the son
of Mary was just a messenger.
AMEEN

He wrote:
The Quran Affirms:
Paul Passed On The True Gospel of Christ

Sam Shamoun

It may come as a surprise to some to hear that the Quran implicitly affirms that the
teachings of the Apostle Paul, which has become the foundation of Christianity, are
derived from Christ. In other words, the Quran indirectly testifies that Pauls theology
wasnt something that he simply concocted in order to win converts from the Gentiles,
but came from God through Christ.
Before presenting the evidence, we would first like to clarify our reasons for
appealing to the Quran. We do not believe that the Quran is Gods Word. However, we
do believe that the Quran is an early record of what the first Muslims believed. As
such, the Quran becomes an important source of information for discovering the
official beliefs of the first Muslims.
In light of this, it bears repeating that the Quran testifies that the Christianity
proclaimed by Paul (i.e., "Pauline" Christianity) is true Christianity.

My response:

So far there is nothing of substance to argue about here.

He wrote:
We base our position on the Quranic claim that Christs true believers would prevail
over the unbelievers till the Day of Resurrection:
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee
(of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee
SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, TO THE DAY OF RESURRECTION:
Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein
ye dispute." S. 3:55
O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: as said Jesus the son of Mary to the
Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the Disciples, "We
are Allah's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion
disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, AND
THEY BECAME THE ONES THAT PREVAILED. S. 61:14
According to these passages, Allah gave Christs followers the power to prevail over
the disbelievers, and made them superior till the day of resurrection. Yet the ones that
prevailed were the Apostles such as Paul, as well as his followers. This means that if
the Quran is correct, then Pauls message is the truth since it has become dominant
and has prevailed over all other opposing messages.
Sayyid Qutb comments on S. 3:55:
... It was also the will of God to elevate the followers of Jesus above the unbelievers
until the Day of Resurrection ...
It is not difficult, on the other hand, to explain Gods statement that He had placed
those who follow Jesus above the unbelievers, and that this elevation continues until
the Day of Resurrection. Those who follow Jesus are the ones who believe in Gods
true religion, Islam, or surrender to God. Every prophet is fully aware of the true
nature of this religion. Every messenger preached the same religion and everyone who

truly believes in the Divine faith believes in it. These believers are indeed far superior
to the unbelievers according to Gods measure, and they will continue to be so until
the Day of Judgement. Moreover, they prove their superiority in our practical life
every time they confront the forces of un-faith with the true nature of faith and the
reality of following Gods messengers. The Divine faith is one, as preached by Jesus,
son of Mary, as preached by every messenger sent before him and by the messenger
sent after him. Those who follow Muhammad at the same time follow all the
messengers sent by God, starting with Adam until the last messenger. (In the Shade of
the Quran - Fi Zilal al-Quran, Volume 2, Surah 3, translated and edited by Adil
Salahi & Ashur Shamis [The Islamic Foundation, 2000], pp. 97-98)
The problem with Qutbs claim is that the Christian believers that prevailed over all
were not Muslims and their message certainly wasnt Islam. Hence, either the true
followers of Christ were vanquished, thus falsifying the Quran which says that they
would dominate. Or, the Quran is false since it contradicts the true message of Christs
followers.

My response:
I've refuted your points in great details using ample Arabic analysis from Lisan AlArab dictionary at:
Did Noble Verses 3:55 and 61:14 give false prophecies about Jesus' true
followers being above the blasphemers (trinitarians and other infidels)?

He wrote:
Maulana Muhammad Ali writes regarding S. 3:55:
... This verse contains four promises relating to Jesus triumph over his enemies as
against their plans ... And the fourth promise is that those who follow Jesus shall be
made dominant over his rejectors till the day of Judgment. The truth of this
fourth prophecy is witnessed TO THIS DAY in the dominance of the Christians

over the Jews. (Ali,Holy Quran [Ahmadiyyah Anjuman Isha'at Islam Lahore Inc.
USA, 1995], pp. 147-148, fn. 439; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Here are his statements regarding S. 61:14:
... The description applies to the triumph of the teachings of Christ over those
who opposed the dissemination of his teachings, and speaks prophetically of the
ultimate triumph of Islam over all other religions of the world. (Ibid., p. 1058, fn.
2501; bold emphasis ours)
Ali fails to mention that the teachings that dominated were those passed on by Paul
(which is actually the same message preached by Christ and the other disciples)!
A. Yusuf Ali, in his translation The Holy Quran - Text and Commentary, p. 1543,
footnote 5448, states:
A portion of the Children of Israel - the ones that really cared for Truth - believed in
Jesus and followed his guidance. But the greater portion of them were hard-hearted,
and remained in their beaten track of formalism and false racial pride. The
majority seemed at first to have the upper hand when they thought they had crucified
Jesus and killed his Message. But they were soon brought to their senses. Jerusalem
was destroyed by Titus in A.D. 70 and the Jews have been scattered ever since. "The
Wandering Jew" has become a bye-word in many literatures. On the other hand,
those who followed Jesus PERMEATED the Roman Empire, brought many new
races within their circle, and through the Roman Empire, Christianity became
the predominant religion of the world until the advent of Islam ... (bold and
capital emphasis ours)
What this Ali failed to note is that the form of Christianity that permeated the Roman
Empire is what Muslims degradingly call "Pauline" Christianity. Hence, that Pauls
message dominated is a sign that his Gospel was that which God entrusted to Christs
true followers. If it were argued that Pauls version of Christianity is an aberration of
the truth, this then means that the Quran is wrong for claiming that God had caused
Christs true followers to prevail. It would mean that Paul was able to thwart Allahs
purposes, being able to prevent the true believers from dominating over their enemies.
Here are the late S. Abu Ala Maududis comments on S. 61:14:

... Those who disbelieved in Jesus Christ are the Jews, and those who believed him are
the Christians as well as the Muslims, and Allah granted them domination over the
disbelievers of Christ. This is meant to requires [sic] the Muslims that just as the
believers of Christ have dominated over his disbelievers in the past, so will the
believers of the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be Allahs peace) prevail over
disbelievers. (Meaning of the Quran, Volume V, english rendering by A.A. Kamal,
M.A. [Islamic Publications (Pvt.) Limited, 13-E, Shahalam Market, Lahore-8
Pakistan], p. 516, fn. 21; underline emphasis ours)
As we had noted earlier, the obvious problem with Maududis explanation is that the
message of Christs true believers directly contradicts the message of Islam. That is,
unless one wants to claim that Christs true message got distorted and a false message
prevailed over it, a claim which then contradicts the plain reading of the passages in
question.
As Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi, while commenting on the last part of S. 61:14,
states:
... (and neither the Messenger NOR THE MESSAGE could be destroyed). (Tafsir-UlQuran Translation and Commentary of the Holy Quran, Volume IV [Darul-Ishaat
Urdu Bazar, Karachu-1, Pakistan; First edition: 1991], p. 356, fn. 270; capital
emphasis ours)
Again, if "Pauline" Christianity is a corruption of Jesus true teachings then the
message was destroyed and Allah failed to bring to pass what he said would happen!
Noted Muslim commentator Ibn Kathirs statements are most interesting.
Commenting on S. 3:54, he writes:
"This is what happened. When Allah raised Isa to heaven, his followers divided into
sects and groups. Some of them believed in what Allah sent Isa as, a servant of Allah,
His Messenger, and the son of His female-servant.
However, some of them went to the extreme over Isa, believing that he was the son of
Allah. Some of them said that Isa was Allah Himself, while others said that he was
one of a Trinity. Allah mentioned these false creeds in the Quran and refuted them.
The Christians remained like this until the third century CE, when a Greek king
called, Constantine, became a Christian for the purpose of destroying Christianity.

Constantine was either a philosopher, or he was just plain ignorant. Constantine

changed the religion of Isa by adding to it and deleting from it. He established the
rituals of Christianity and the so-called Great Trust which is in fact the Great
Treachery. He also allowed them to eat the meat of swine, changed the direction of the
prayer that Isa established to the east, built churches for Isa, and added ten days to
the fast as compensation for a sin that he committed, as claimed. So the religion of
Isa became the religion of Constantine, who built more than twelve thousand
churches, temples and monasteries for the Christians as well as the city that bears his
name, Constantinople (Istanbul). THROUGHOUT THIS TIME, the Christians had
the upper hand and dominated the Jews. ALLAH AIDED THEM AGAINST
THE JEWS BECAUSE THEY USED TO BE CLOSER TO THE TRUTH THAN
THE JEWS, even though both groups were and still are disbelievers, may Allahs
curse descend on them." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 2, Parts 3, 4, & 5
(Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, Verse 147), abridged by a group of
scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri
[Darussalam Publishers & Distributors Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First
Edition: March 2000], p. 171; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Ibn Kathirs explanation doesnt solve the problem since if the Quran is correct then
the Christianity that Ibn Kathir attacks is indeed the truth. Otherwise, Ibn Kathirs
comments imply that Allah either allowed a false form of Christianity to prevail, or
failed to grant Christs true believers dominance over those seeking to pervert the true
teachings of Christ!
Hence, Muslims are in a dilemma that they cannot easily resolve. Namely, to accept
the Quran is to accept "Pauline" Christianity. Yet to accept "Pauline" Christianity is to
reject the Quran, since the Quran contradicts the core teaching of Paul as has been
preserved in the pages of the Holy Bible and amongst true Christians historically.
A Muslim may wish to argue that these verses refer to Muhammad and the Muslims as
those who truly believe in Christ and dominate till the Resurrection Day. This
explanation fails to resolve the issue. The passages do not say that Christs followers
would only prevail from the time of Muhammads advent, but from the time that
Christ was taken to God and unto the Day of Resurrection.

My response:
We first of all need to know who Jesus is in Islam. Jesus peace be upon him was
Allah Almighty's Messenger to the People of Israel. His Message was simple: "They
do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of
Israel ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' (The Noble Quran, 5:72)"
"And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere
disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say,
"We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came
down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow (in
Islam)." (The Noble Quran, 29:46)"
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor
is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
"Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth- Lord and
Cherisher of all the worlds! To Him be Glory throughout the heavens and the earth:
and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!. (The Noble Quran, 45:36-37)"
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as
between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners
with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than
Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims
(bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
Please visit: What is the Wisdom of Islam?
The early Christians did not believe in the polytheist trinity paganism. Even
Christians today don't agree on who Jesus really is. They all say "Jesus is the Son of
God", but when one tries to dig deeper into what "Son of God" really means, he will
find clear contradictions and conflicts among them. Some believe that Jesus is the
Creater of the Universe, and some believe that Jesus is a Creation from GOD
Almighty.
Trinity did not prevail in this world, and it will never prevail in this world. Up until
the 1400s, Islam had the dominating power over the world. The Islamic Empire

stretched from the borders of France all the way to the borders of China! The
followers of Jesus are the modern Muslims of today. Anyone who believes in GOD
Almighty as the Absolute One and True Living LORD, then he is a follower of Jesus
peace be upon him.
Let us look at what Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran about the polytheist
pagan trinity that Paul invented:
"They do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O
Children of Israel ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' (The Noble Quran, 5:72 )"
"They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god
except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous
penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (The Noble Quran, 5:73)"
Jesus himself used the word "Muslim" during his ministry:

From www.answering-christianity.com/luke6_40.htm:

Jesus using the word "Muslim" in Luke 6:40:

This article was give to me by brother Tamer, may Allah Almighty always be pleased
with him.
Let us look at Luke 6:40 from my N.I.V. Bible "A student is not above his teacher, but
everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher."

From me, Osama Abdallah:

Evidence from the English translation of Luke 6:40 that further prove that the
word 'Muslim' was used by Jesus:
Luke 6:40 (KJV)

40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Luke 6:40 (Darby)
40 The disciple is not above his teacher, but every one that is perfected shall be as his teacher.
Luke 6:40 (Young's Literal Translation)
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but every one perfected shall be as his teacher.
Luke 6:40 (21st Century King James Version)
40 The disciple is not above his master, but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Luke 6:40 (American Standard Version)
40 The disciple is not above his teacher: but every one when he is perfected shall be as his
teacher.
The perfection here means a spiritual one. What the verse is saying is that knowledge is not
what matters! The teacher or master is higher in knowledge than his student. But the student
can be as high as his teacher, or even higher, by being a true 'MUSHLAM' or Muslim, a
spiritually perfect and well-disciplined person!

"Ein talmeed na'leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she'MUSHLAM yihyeh k'rabbo."
Taken from the Aramaic bible society. See also the PDF file at this link.

This is further proved by the Arabic translation:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206:40;&version=28;

The Arabic word "baseera", which is what is falsely translated for "MUSHLAM" by the
deceiving polytheist trinitarian pagans from the Arabic translators, actually means "having
spiritual knowledge or discipline"! Even in their twisted translation, the word clearly is used
for spiritual discipline and not just technical knowledge of our worldly knowledge today such
as Science or Mathematics or anything else.
In other words:

1-

My math teacher can be more knowledgeable than me in math, but with

my baseera (being a very good Muslim that is), I can be an equal or even better person than
him or her!!

2-

My master, if I were a slave, can be higher than me in authority and worldly reputation, but

with my baseera (with my Islam), I can be an equal or even better person than him!!
Even their wrong word clearly supports Islam, because the verse is crystal clear in Aramaic!!
The most accurate and honest translation for the Aramaic Mushlam is none other than the
Arabic Muslim, which means Believer!

Continuing with brother Tamer's article....

Let us look at what Jesus said in Luke 6:40 in the language of Aramaic translated into
Hebrew as shown below:

"Ein talmeed na'leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she'MUSHLAM yihyeh k'rabbo."
Taken from the Aramaic bible society. See also the PDF file at this link.
Note: Aramaic and Hebrew are read from right to left, which is opposite to English.
Translation in English: "No student can be above his teacher, but everyone that is
a MUSLIM, can be as his teacher."
Important Note: The Hebrew word "Mushlam" comes from the root "Sh L M".
"Shalom" which comes from the same root means "peace". The Arabic word
"Muslim" comes from the root "S L M". "Salam" means "peace". "Salem" means
"safe". Also taken from the Aramaic bible
society, http://home.comcast.net/~rzuberi/index_files/page0005.htm,
andhttp://home.comcast.net/~rzuberi/articles/Being_Like_The_Teacher.pdf.

Another Important Note: In case the pdf file gets lost from the "home.comcast.net"
site, I have uploaded it to my site. You can access a copy of on my site at this link.
Also, please visit: Jesus peace be upon him spoke Aramaic during his ministry.
See Jesus predicting the coming of Muhammad after him in the Bible.

Most recent discoveries:

Recently Father Pecerillo, a famous Franciscan Archiologist, found more than twenty
churches in Madaba at the south of Jordan. From the Forth Century we found houses
in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine with this inscription in Arabic :"Bism Allah al

Rahman al Rahim" which showed that Christians were the first to use this name,
Allah for GOD Almighty, which proves that the name of GOD Almighty in the Noble
Quran, "Allah" is the correct one. This also proves to us that the Bible is not all
found. There are still missing pieces in it that disprove trinity.
For more details and proofs, visit: Jewish and Christian Arabs used the word "Allah"
for GOD before Islam. See historical and
most recent discoveries in the Middle East.

archeological evidence and

Paul was not a follower of Jesus. Paul never even met Jesus in person. Paul actually
used to persecute Christians. While going on his way to Damascus, he claimed that
Jesus appeared to him and anointed him to be "his apostle". Paul, however, had
proven himself to be a big liar in the Bible. Please visit:
Famous Theologians and Historians believe that Paul was not truthful.
How can you say that the Bible has corruption in it when Saint Paul in 2 Timothy 3:16
clearly said that "All Scripture is God-breathed"?
Paul, Peter and John are in clear contradiction with each others regarding the
disbelieving husbands to believing wives!
Paul nullified and contradicted the point of Baptism.
Is circumcision allowed or not allowed in the Bible? See the clear contradiction
between Jesus and Paul.

He wrote:
This is perhaps why men such as Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Kathir, al-Tabari and al-Thalabi could
view Paul in such a positive light. They seemingly realized that Paul had a tremendous
influence in the growth and spread of Christianity, and had been sovereignly used by

God as his instrument of domination over the unbelievers. (see the article The
Apostles of Christ: Messengers of God or Mere Disciples?)
To summarize the Islamic evidence, we discovered that
The Quran records the domination of Christs true believers
over the disbelievers.
This domination would continue till the Day of Resurrection.
Pauls message dominated and became superior to all other
opposing messages.
This implies that if the Quran is right then Pauls message must
be correct.
Yet, these factors introduce the following problems for the Muslims:
The Quran contradicts the core teachings of the Apostle Paul as
well as the message of the Holy Bible as a whole.
Since the Quran and early Muslim commentators clearly testify
to the accuracy and legitimacy of Pauls preaching, this means
that the Quran cannot be the word of God. Rather, it must be
the word of fallible men such as Muhammad and/or others.
This also implies that the author(s) of the Quran was (were)
unaware of the true message of the Holy Bible and of the
Apostle Paul, and thought that it agreed with his (their) own
preaching. The author(s) presumably thought that in
acknowledging the testimony of the Holy Bible he (they) would
therefore be legitimizing the prophetic claims of Muhammad.
Had he (they) been aware of the true message of the Holy
Bible the author(s) might not have given so much credence to
both Paul and the Holy Bible.
This concludes our paper. We pray that our risen Lord and immortal Savior will use
this to bring precious Muslims into his glorious love and truth. Amen. Come Lord
Jesus, come. We will always love you by Gods all powerful, sovereign grace.

My response:
Like I mentioned above, the early Christians rejected trinity. Islam also dominated a
large part of the world for so many centuries. Allah Almighty also cursed in the Noble
Quran those who follow the trinity lie. Therefore, trinity is not supported in the Noble
Quran, and the followers of Jesus in the Noble Quran are those who Worship Allah
Almighty as the Absolute One and True Living GOD Almighty. They are the
Muslims. And like I showed above, Jesus himself used the word "Muslim" during his
ministry.
The reason why trinity is stronger than Islam today is because the Muslims
themselves are corrupted. This is no surprise. Allah Almighty did warn us from
Muslim hypocrites and corruption. Please visit:
Muslims be careful from the Muslim hypocrites.
If the current Muslim nations are too corrupt, then Allah Almighty will change them
with better ones. In this article I showed from the Noble Quran how Allah Almighty
might be changing the current corrupt Muslim nations with new ones from the
Western nations.
Muslims are commanded by Allah Almighty to raise the wrath of the fight-seeking
disbelievers toward them, and to fight evil with courage.

Paul and Muhammad (PBUH)

A rebuttal by Shadid.
Paul on Lying
I disagree with Sam, Paul is actually admitting to lying. We know this from His
statements such as in 1Corinthians
9:19-23. Here Paul admits to FALSELY acting like certain types of people just to get
them to accept his teachings.
" For though , I be free from all men, yet I have made myself servant unto all, that I
might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a jew, that I might gain the jews,
to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under
law, ( clear proof of his deceit as he said in Romans 10:4 " For Christ is the end of the
law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" , yet he admits to pretending to be
under the law just to trick and gain those who still believe in the law)." To them
without law, I act like I am without law, that I might gain them that are without
Law.To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things
to all men, that I might by ALL MEANS( even deceitful means) save some. "
Next Sam says Paul claims it was deceitful men who slandered him. However we see
earlier on in Acts 21:21-26 The Elders of the apostles ordered Paul to go and purify
himself for teaching that the Jews should for sake Moses and no longer circumcise
i.e , teaching his lies. In verse 24 of Acts 21 They say :
" Them take, and purify yourself with them ( the others brothers who need
purification), and be at charges with them, that they shave their heads: and all may
know that those things that they heard about you( your lies about no more

circumcision and no more following Laws of Torah etc) are nothing ( i.e. were'nt
true), But that you yourself also walkest orderly, and keepest the Law"
Now If Paul knew he was right in what he taught he should have protested and said, "
I need no purification". However we see in Acts 21:26 " Then Paul took the men and
the next day purified himself with them in the temple."
Now recall the elders of the disciples wanted him to do this so others would see that
the things that Paul was teaching ( no more circumcison, No more law of torah) and
he was actually teaching these things, But they wanted to stop further uproar and
prevent the spread of his wrong teachings, by having him go in the temple and purify
himself amd show others that the rumours were'nt true , even though they were true,
but if people saw him still following the laws of temple purification the people would
assume the rumours were " nothing"- Acts 21:24
We further see that Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:16 " But be it so, I did not burden
you: neverthe less, BEING CRAFTY( another word for tricky, cunning, deceitful), I
caught you with GUILE( another word for insidious cunning or deceitfulness in
attaining a goal).Paul here admits to catching with deceit, and trickery. So all the
verses Sam gave regarding Pauls view on lying and deception, is nothing more than
Pauls double talk.
Muhammad on lying
Now I cant see how Sam sees Surah 16: 106 and The story about Ammars family as
underhanded deceit. I mean come on Sam, This is about people being tortured because
of being Muslim, and here they are given permission to say what the torturers want to
hear inorder to stop the torture. I mean, how could Sam miss that?? And take note that
even though this permission was given, many of the oppressed and tortured Muslims
chose death or continued torture rather than give the tortuers what they wanted ( No
Compulsion in religion p 1,2 By Ali Zahi Ramadan)
Next Sam further Twist Hadith by again implying that Muhammad made allowances
for under handed trickery or deceit. Again he is clearly wrong. He mentions the
narration in which it is said that a person is not counted as a liar " If it is dealing with
a battle ( what fool would tell his enemies the truth of their operations?? Would a
captured Christian CIA agent tell the truth to enemy interrogators???) . The 2 nd case
is for bringing about peace between to persons who had anomosity with eachother,
and the 3rd case for a Husband to his wife or vice versa to bring about reconciliation.
So we see the aims are not underhanded but honorable. Is it wrong to make peace with

2 people by saying " look so and so says he made a mistake and then go to the other
and say such and such said he made a mistake, and by this they stop arguing and
having ill feelings for each other?? And as for the 3rd, How many husband tell their
wives " Your are the Most beautiful woman in the world, or when they go on in years,
he says you still look the same as we met 30 years ago". Surely she may not really be
the most beautiful woman in the world, and surely she has aged since 30 years ago,
but it makes her feel good and keeps joy and peace in the house. So this is what is
meant by these hadith. I mean come on Sam, are you blind, or are you just a deceiver
like Paul?? I think you are the latter!
Next we are introduced to NON MUSLIM writer William Muir. He again repeats the
same from what I dealt with previous, i .e the 3 cases, but a 4th is added. The 4th
being really about battle and not ordinary travel as the reference is made to the battle
of Tabuk and other battle in which Muhammad didnt want to tip off the enemy to their
strategic military plans. Again Imagine Christians in the Pentagon being honest and
truthful about Classified US Military operations.
Next a hadith in Sahih Bukhari volume 4, number 361 is mentioned. Again This
hadith in no way shows any allowance for down and dirty underhanded deceit. The
hadith shows That If a person said something they would or wouldnt do, Then later
sees there is more benefit in doing other wise, then the oath should be done away
with. Its similar to Jesus in Matthew 12 :1-13 in which The Pharisees had a problem
with the actions of Jesus and his disciples on the sabbath. They were hungry and
needed to eat so they plucked ears of corn and ate. The Pharisee in their lack of
wisdom and insight saw this as wrong, But Jesus reminded them of a case with David
and those with him doing that which was not normally allowed ( eating the bread of
the temple which was only for the priest). But though they were wrong, they needed
to break that rule rather than starve. Again Jesus healed a man, and they had an issue
with that in this same chapter of Matthew 12:9-13. Again Jesus explained that it was
more beneficial to save or heal ( a sheep , or more a man) Than stick to the normal
practice of observing the rule of the sabbath. So again, Come on Sam, are you not
reading these hadith throughly and with an open mind, or do you just have an axe to
grind. I think its the latter, cause they are so clear as to what they are saying, I dont see
how you could miss it.
Response To Allah being a deceiver
Next Sam makes a whole long drawn out issue of Surah 4:142 , Surah 2:9, Surah 3:54.
Surah 8:30. He also goes into the word Makara( schemer). However It is so simple to
see Sam is again the deceiver here. We see here in all these surahs that They show that
the evil doers had plotted a underhanded plot or scheme against Allah , or Muhammad

and the muslims, But Allah having knowledge of all things, Turns their plan and
scheme against themselves. No where does it says Allah deceives people about the
truth or plots against good and honest persons. Everyone of the surahs is in the context
dealing with the plan of evil doers having their evil plan or scheme turned against
themselves. Its similar to your bible Sam where in Jonah 3:10 we see God was going
to do evil .
" And God repented of the EVIL, that he had said he would do unto them: and he did
not do it" Jonah 3:10
So I could play Sams game and say "See, Your bible admits your God can do evil" .
But The context doesnt mean evil in the context of low down satanic evil. Just as
Allah scheming against the evil doers doesnt mean a deceitful satanic scheme by
turning their under handed plot against themselves. Its so clear That Sam is either not
Troughly reading what he sites, or he is intentionally ignoring the clear and easily
understood meaning and context, inorder to try and slander Islam.
Muhammad on Husband Wife Relations
Sam had given a challenge for similar verses from the Quran commanding husbands
to view their wives as their own bodies. Afterward Sam said he was
confident( ignorant) that no such verses could be produced.
Well Sam , your wrong, see here :
"O mankind, Be dutiful to your Lord, who created you from a single person, and from
him He created his wife, and from them both He created many men and women and
fear Allah through whom you demand MUTUAL RIGHTS, and do not cut the ties of
the wombs ( kinship)! Surely , Allah is ever an all watcher over you" Surah 4:1
Here it is clear that The spouses Have MUTUAL RIGHTS over each other.They are
told they came from the same person ( adam).
" And Among his signs is this, that he created for you WIVES FROM AMONG
YOURSELVES, that you may find repose and comfort in them, and He has put
BETWEEN YOU ( husband and wife) AFFECTION and MERCY. Verily in that are
indeed signs for a people who reflect" Surah 30:21.
So yet again another verse in which man is told the woman is to be seen as to himself
as Allah said " He created for you WIVES FROM AMONG YOURSELVES".
It is through this bond that they are interconnected and through these bonds that some
of their rights upon one another are established. (The Fiqh of Marriage p4 Jamal
Zarabozo)
Based on these 2 clear verses from The Quran Sams Challenge is answered, and I say
he should be removed from the " answering Islam " team since it has become clear his
work is lacking in thorough research and honesty.

Responses to Sams -Muhammad on Husband and wife relations

Here Islam will answer back to some of the items Sam mentioned in this
section.Surah 2:223 was mentioned in which it is stated that a husband may approach
his wife when or how he wills. He followed it by giving a hadith connected to that
verse from Sunan Abu Dawuud , Book 11, Number 2159 which gave the reason upon
which this verse was revealed. At the end he says instead of respecting the Womans
refusal to engage in a particular sexual position, This verse , Surah 2:223 was
revealed.
However , I say why didnt the woman respect her husband since a different position
caused no harm and her only reason was she was sticking to some ignorant custom
that some people of the book, limited themselves to. Thus the verse was revealed to
dispell the ignorant custom made up by some people of the book, and thus one should
not feel shame or guilt for using some other position.
Next Sam quotes ;
" Women have such honorable rights as obligations, but their men have a degree
above them" Surah 2:228
Allah explains why Men have a degree above the women in Surah 4:34, Come on
Sam, you need to do better research, see here.
" Men are the PROTECTORS and MAINTAINERS of the women, with what Allah
made some of them to excell others, and with what they (men) SPEND OUT OF
THEIR WEALTH to support them"
So there is the reason. Plus , I mean Sam surely you dont take issue with this when
your own bible says :
"Wives,submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the
HUSBAND IS THE HEAD OF THE WIFE( not vice versa)" Ephesians 5:22,23
Concerning what the older women should teach the younger women, we read:
" To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, OBEDIENT to their own husbands"
Titus 2:5
So surely No christian has a thing to say when your own scriptures say as well that the
man is head of the women and the good Christian women is OBEDIENT to her
Husband.
Sam then went on to quote some things from the comments of Ibn Kathir, but I dont
see problems other than Sams lack of comprehension of what he was reading. For
example, He quotes Surah 3:14 and boldens the part that reads " fair in the eyes of
men ( Meaning from mans point of view) IS THE LOVE OF THE THINGS THEY
COVET: WOMEN, ( Sam didnt bolden the rest I wonder why???, but the verse doesnt
just stop at women) and sons; heaped up hoards of gold and silver etc..." He then

boldens towards the end of the verse " SUCH ARE THE POSSESSIONS OF THIS
WORLDS LIFE ( meaning these are the materialistic things people desire in this
earthly life) but with Allah is the best of the goals" Surah 3:14.
Its so clear by that this verse is saying that man in his materialistic ways seeks the
women, the sons, the wealth, etc.. But the best Goal is not the aquiring of those things,
the best goal is with Allah in the hereafter.This is in line with Ibn Kathirs explanation,
plus the next verse Surah 3:15 proves that as it clearly says;
" Say: shall I inform you of things BETTER THAN THOSE ( better than those things
mentioned in the previous verse that in mans eyes he loves to have and posess)" The
things that are better are that which is obtained in the hereafter as a reward to those
who believed and did good deeds and received Allahs grace and mercy.
I mean come on you dont need to be a highly educated islamic scholar to understand
what the verse is saying. Really Answering islam, Sam should be removed from your
team as his work is very poor and ill researched as Im so clearly showing.
Alhamdulilah.
Other errors and lack of comprehension of Sam include a misquote of a very well
known Hadith. Sam quoted it as " The best members of this Ummah are those who
HAVE THE MOST WIVES" This is a clear error. The Correct hadith states;
" The best of this Ummah are those who ARE BEST TO THEIR WIVES"( not who
have the most wives) Hadith of At Tirmidih.
His lack of comprehension shows again as he quotes some Hadith in which he keeps
emboldening the parts that says, women. He is playing a mind manipulation game
here getting you to think that these hadith are saying Muhammad Loved women in the
context of a Playboy womanizer. However that is not the case. The true meaning is
That he loved women out of sincere concern for them and he was given revelation that
improved life for them, The Quran was the 1st to give Women a right to inheritance
(Surah 4:7, 11,12 & 176). The Quran put an end to The Female infanticide that the
Arabs practiced ( Surah 16:59, Surah 43:17, Surah 81:8,9),in which out of shame for
having female babies , they would bury the female infants alive . Muhammad
instructed his followers to educate the females ( Bukhari Hadith V 1.97, Bukhari
V3.720, Bukhari V4.255, Bukhari V4 .655, Bukhari V 7.20). Muhammad showed his
love for women, by instructing his followers that their Mothers get 3 times the honor
over their fathers. (Bukhari V 8.2, Abu Dawud 5120). So yes we see Muhammad did
indeed love women.
Lastly He quotes or rather MISQUOTES surah 4:34. He quotes it as saying "Men are
superior to Women". However All the translations I have state the arabic word
"qawwamun" as Maintainers or maintainers and protectors which is correct , see
( English -Arabic translator Dictionary p 534,535 By F. Steingass). Sams is wrong, its
doesnt say men are superior, but does say Men have authority over women, just like I

showed earlier your bible says the same thing, so take issue with your own book if
you have a problem with that.
And of course the famous, " Its says beat them" part of the verse of Surah 4:34.Glad to
see he didnt leave out the fact that it refers to a disobedient wife of which there were 2
prior measures mentioned inorder to bring about order before it says to beat them. All
of the Scholars of islam have clearly explained that this verse in no way is saying to
beat upon women such as we hear about for example in the US, where women have
Black eyes, are sent to the Hospital, broken limbs etc.Heres what is said about it.
"One of the Great INJUSTICES is severe physical abuse.... The ayah in the Quran
where Allahs gives the husband to "beat Her lightly" is grossly taken out of context.( "Prevalent Problems in Muslim Marriages" p19 By Rabiyah Abdul Khair)
" And if those measures miserably Fail( The 2 prior measures given in the verse), then
chastisement is allowed, BUT IT SHOULD BE MILD CHASTISEMENT, AND NOT
A SEVERE ONE CAUSING HARM TO ANY PART OF THE BODY"-( Adul
Hameed Siddiqui , Translator and Commentator , THE HOLY QURAN, Lahore:
Islamic Book Centre part III, p323)
" They are to be taken by the hand and disciplined"- ( Al Durr Al Manthoor Fi Al
tafseer Al Ma thoor , Vol 2 p151 by Al Syuti)
" The striking MUST NOT BE a vicious striking and must be done with something
like a handkerchief, siwaak( Toothstick), or hand" -( The Fiqh Of marriage p244 By
Jamal Zarabozo)
And of Course the best is from Muhammad himself , which is why the others say Its a
" Light beating"- " ....Give them a Beating without causing injury to them" -(Al
Bukhari and Muslim).
So its clear . I end by Saying, its truly disturbing to see the either willful
misinformation, or just out right ignorance of Sam in his attempts to slander this way
of life we call ISLAM. Alhamdulilah, the responses are clear and exposes , the so
called " answering Islam" and shows they have not really answered anything. They
have just thrown out misinformation that with careful and thorough, honest reading
can easily be exposed.
MrDebate_The_ Hate/ Bro. Shadid

Defining the meaning of the word "Son":

After you finish reading this article, please visit: "Son of God" is same as "Servant
of God" in Hebrew. Bible agrees with Islam, not with pagan trinity.

Now in Isaiah 9:6 "....there has been a son given to us,.........",

Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods" (Elohim; plural to El); you are all sons of
the Most High.' " "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim", which is plural of "EL". It is
the same exact thing as "EL" used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, since "gods" is a
combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called
"god" or "God" in the Bible it wouldn't make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD
or Jehovah. I also want to point out that any "Son of GOD" in the Bible is a "god" or
"God".
Please visit: The "GOD (El)" title was given to others before and after Jesus in
the Bible.
Also, let us look at John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only
begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed
but have everlasting life." Ironically, Trinitarians from my personal experience with
them rely on this verse (John 3:16) very heavily when trying to prove that Allah or
Jehovah came down to earth to die for our sins. They claim that Jesus being God's

unique son, makes him the only Son for God, which ultimately lead us to the
conclusion that Jehovah is Jesus.
Also, let us look at Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered
Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one
and only son...." Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was 13 years
older than Isaac. Yet we see that "his one and only son" expression was used for
Isaac. The Bible uses expressions like this to magnify people or to glorify someone
on a certain occasion. The Bible in this verse glorifies Isaac for being the chosen
sacrifice to God, according to what the Jews and Christians claim in their corrupted
Bible. So Jesus being God's "only begotten Son" in John 3:16 doesn't make him God
nor the only Son of God.
Please visit Isaac and Ishmael in Islam and Christianity.
Now, Let us look at Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my
firstborn." Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called "Son", but
also his first born !!. Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we
must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!
Also, let us look at Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my
firstborn." Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.
Let us also look at Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son;
this day have I begotten thee." Here in this verse we see that God not only called
David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son !!!.

Swapping Game: Let us play a little swapping game between the verses
of John 3:16, Exodus 4:22, Jeremiah 31:9, and Psalm 2:7. Let us take "his only
begotten Son" from John 3:16and replace it in Exodus 4:22, and let us take "even my
firstborn" from Exodus 4:22 and replace it in John 3:16.
Do you honestly think that the little swap game above would change anything in the
meaning? Would you still have believed in Jesus as Jehovah if the above swap was
true?

The above swap proves that the word "Son" doesn't mean actual biological "Son" at
all. It just means that Jesus is a "Son" of Jehovah in a way that Jehovah loved him so
much that he chose him to be his messenger to the people of Israel.

Another Swapping Game: Let us replace "I begotten

thee" from Psalm 2:7, and replace it in John 3:16, and take "his only begotten
Son" from John 3:16 and replace it in Psalm 2:7
Again, do you honestly think that the little swap game above would change anything
in the meaning? Would you still have believed in Jesus as Jehovah if the above swap
was true?
Clearly, the above swap proves that the word "Son" doesn't mean actual biological
"Son" at all. It just means that Jesus is a "Son" of Jehovah in a way that Jehovah
loved him so much that he chose him to be his messenger to the people of Israel.

Jesus worshiping his God:

Let us look at Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and
prayed to his God." Here we see that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher
than him and stronger than him. Jesus was God's servant and he prayed to God so
God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to
continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.
Also, let us look at Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell
upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away
from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " Here in this verse we see two things:
(1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience.
(2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not
have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD
had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe, the all
knowing, most powerful??!!

Also, let us look at Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off
and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I
drink it, let your will take place.'" My comments on this verse are similar to the above
one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen.
Jesus couldn't will it by himself.
Also, let us look at Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed
for the third time, saying once more the same word." Here we see that Jesus for the
third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above.
How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe if he (1) begs, and (2) lacks power??!!

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "To Intercede or

Not To Intercede? That is the Question!" article:
The following article is a rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article that is located
at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/intercession.html.

Important Note:
There is a little attempt of twisting translations done
by Sam Shamoun!

He wrote:
Qur'an Contradiction:
To Intercede or Not To Intercede?
That is the Question!

The Quran has much to say about intercession on the Day of Judgment. In fact, the
Quran says contradictory things regarding intercession as the following passages
show.
1. There Will Be No Intercession
a. The Quran
O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made
you excel the nations. And be on your guard against a day when ONE SOUL shall
not avail ANOTHER in the least, neither shall intercession on its behalf be
accepted, nor shall any compensation be taken from it, nor shall they be helped. S.
2:47-48
O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made
you excel the nations. And be on your guard against a day when NO SOUL shall
avail ANOTHER in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from
it, nor shall intercession profit it, nor shall they be helped. S. 2:122-123

These two passages make it clear that intercession will not avail ANY person, not just
the Israelites, since the references to "NO SOUL" and "ONE SOUL" not availing
another naturally includes every human being.
O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in
which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the
unbelievers - they are the unjust. S. 2:254
"Not your desires, nor those of the people of the Book (can prevail): Whosoever
works evil, will be requited accordingly. Nor will he find, besides God, any
protector or helper. If any do deeds of righteousness, - Be they male or female - and
have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them" S.
4:123-124
And warn with it those who fear that they shall be gathered to their Lord - there is no
guardian for them, nor any intercessor besides Him - that they may guard (against
evil). S. 6:51
Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are
deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul
delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or
intercessor except Allah: if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be
accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts:
they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous:
for they persisted in rejecting Allah. S. 6:70
Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our
protector": and on Allah let the Believers put their trust. S. 9:51
Allah it is Who created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them, in
six Days. Then He mounted the Throne. Ye have not, beside Him, a protecting
friend or mediator. Will ye not then remember? S. 32:4
Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He,
then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own
soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs. It is Allah that takes the
souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on
whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but

the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for
those who reflect. What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say:
"Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?" Say: Unto Allah
belongeth all intercession. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. And
afterward unto Him ye will be brought back. S. 39:41-44
Again, what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is? (It will be) the Day
when no soul shall have power (to do) aught for another: For the command, that
Day, will be (wholly) with Allah. S. 82:18-19
The Quran asks:
Is he on whom the word of doom is fulfilled (to be helped), and canst thou (O
Muhammad) rescue him who is in the Fire? S. 39:19 Pickthall
This verse evidently implies that Muhammad cannot save anyone from hell.
Amazingly, the Quran says that even prophets and angels can only hope for Gods
mercy:
Say: Cry unto those (saints and angels) whom ye assume (to be gods) beside Him, yet
they have no power to rid you of misfortune nor to change. Those unto whom they
cry seek the way of approach to their Lord, which of them shall be the nearest; they
hope for His mercy and they fear His doom. Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be
shunned. S. 17:56-57 Pickthall

b. The Hadith
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "(On the Day of Resurrection) camels will come to their owner in
the best state of health they have ever had (in the world), and if he had not paid their
Zakat (in the world) then they would tread him with their feet; and similarly, sheep
will come to their owner in the best state of health they have ever had in the world,
and if he had not paid their Zakat, then they would tread him with their hooves and
would butt him with their horns." The Prophet added, "One of their rights is that they
should be milked while water is kept in front of them." The Prophet added, "I do not
want anyone of you to come to me on the Day of Resurrection, carrying over his neck

a sheep that will be bleating. Such a person will (then) say, O Muhammad! (please
intercede for me,) I will say to him. I can't help you, for I conveyed Allah's
Message to you. Similarly, I do not want anyone of you to come to me carrying over
his neck a camel that will be grunting. Such a person (then) will say O Muhammad!
(please intercede for me). I will say to him, I can't help you for I conveyed Allah's
message to you." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 24, Number 485)
Narrated Abu Huraira:
When Allah revealed the Verse: "Warn your nearest kinsmen," Allah's Apostle got up
and said, "O people of Quraish (or said similar words)! Buy (i.e. save) yourselves
(from the Hellfire) as I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Bani Abd
Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment, O Safiya, the Aunt of Allah's
Apostle! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Fatima bint Muhammad!
Ask me anything from my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah's
Punishment." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 51, Number 16)
Narrated Um Al-Ala:
That when the Ansar drew lots as to which of the emigrants should dwell with which
of the Ansar, the name of Uthman bin Mazun came out (to be in their lot). Um Al-Ala
further said, "Uthman stayed with us, and we nursed him when he got sick, but he
died. We shrouded him in his clothes, and Allah's Apostle came to our house and I
said, (addressing the dead 'Uthman), O Abu As-Sa'ib! May Allah be merciful to you. I
testify that Allah has blessed you. The Prophet said to me, "How do you know that
Allah has blessed him?" I replied, I do not know O Allah's Apostle! May my parents
be sacrificed for you. Allah's Apostle said, As regards Uthman, by Allah he has died
and I really wish him every good, yet, by Allah, although I am Allah's Apostle, I do
not know what will be done to him. Um Al-Ala added, By Allah I shall never attest
the piety of anybody after him. And what Allah's Apostles said made me sad. Um AlAla further said, "Once I slept and saw in a dream, a flowing stream for Uthman. So I
went to Allah's Apostle and told him about it, he said, That is (the symbol of) his
deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 852)
Narrated Kharija bin Zaid bin Thabit:
Um Al-'Ala an Ansari woman who had given the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's
Apostle said, "'Uthman bin Maz'un came in our share when the Ansars drew lots to
distribute the emigrants (to dwell) among themselves, He became sick and we looked
after (nursed) him till he died. Then we shrouded him in his clothes. Allah's Apostle

came to us, I (addressing the dead body) said, "May Allah's Mercy be on you, O Aba
As-Sa'ib! I testify that Allah has honored you." The Prophet said, How do you know
that? I replied, I do not know, by Allah. He said, As for him, death has come to him
and I wish him all good from Allah. By Allah, though I am Allah's Apostle, I
neither know what will happen to me, nor to you." Um Al-'Ala said, "By Allah, I
will never attest the righteousness of anybody after that." She added, "Later I saw in a
dream, a flowing spring for 'Uthman. So I went to Allah's Apostle and mentioned that
to him. He said, That is (the symbol of) his good deeds (the reward for) which is
going on for him." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 145)
These hadiths state that Muhammad cannot and/or will not intercede for Muslims,
especially those who failed to pay the Zakat.
The preceding passages are quite clear and unambiguous that no intercession will
avail any soul on Judgment Day, and that Allah is the only intercessor since all
intercession belongs entirely to him.
This has led some Muslims to deny that the intercession of prophets and messengers
will be permitted on the Day of Judgment. Shaikh Gamal al-Banna, in an article
titled The Islamic Concept of God and Prophet, writes:
Islam stresses the human character of the Prophet ... Therefore, any kind of
mediation is not permissible or recognized in Islam. Prophets are mere messengers
of God; they cannot forgive anyone if he commits a sin or exempt him from the
punishment he deserves. They cannot also intercede with God on anybody's
behalf, for Islam does not recognize the idea of intercession as such." (The Muslim
World League Journal, May-June 1983, Volume 10, Number. 8, p. 9)
The following Muslim article states:
There is a traditional view which exists among present day Muslims regarding the
concept of intercession which is based on hadith literature. This view is not
supported by the Quran. The Quran repeatedly holds each individual responsible for
his or her own conduct ...
The true concept of God who is running the affairs of the universe is only contained in
the Quran, as it is given by god Himself to mankind. One of the attributes frequently
mentioned by god about himself is 'Aziz-ul-Hakeem' which is translated as the

Exalted in Power, the Wise. The very concept of intercession means to give
someone advantage which one does not deserve and is against the concept of
justice. God the Wise can never be expected to do that. This concept if accepted,
brings down the whole building block of 'din' as presented in the Quran by god.
We all know that a person who accepts intercession in worldly life can never expected
to deliver justice. (Source; bold emphasis ours)
Another Muslim article, in trying to refute the claim that the Quran contradicts itself
regarding this issue, argues:
The concept of intercession, which is strictly prohibited in the Quran, is the act of
interceding on behalf of another person to have his/her sins forgiven on Judgement
Day ...
The myth of intercession is one of Satan's most effective tricks to dupe millions of
people into idol worship. Millions of Christians believe that Jesus will intercede for
them with God, and millions of Muslims believe that Muhammad will not only
intercede on their behalf, but will actually take them out of hell!
Consequently, these people have made Jesus and Muhammad their Saviours and as a
result have idolized them! (Source; bold and underline emphasis ours)
Someone may claim that these verses are referring to unbelievers such as the idolaters
who will not be given any intercession. This claim cannot be sustained since some of
these passages make no mention of idolaters or unbelievers. In fact, some of them are
actually directed towards the God-fearing believers (cf. 2:254; 6:51).

My response:
First of all, Noble Verses 2:47-48 and 2:122-123 used the Noble Arabic Word "tajzee",
which means:

1- To reward.
2- Make up for.
3- To pay for.

The word "tajzee" is derived from the root word "jaza", which means "to reward".
There is a very popular Islamic term that is used among Muslims world-wide, similar
to "As'salamu Alaikum" (peace be upon you), which is

"Jazaka Allah Khayran"

which means May Allah Almighty Reward you with Good
Almighty Reward you Greatly.

--OR--

May Allah

The Arabic word for intercession is "shafa'aa", and not "tajzee".

Very important point!

We must also notice that in all of the Noble Verses above that speak about
intercession, Allah Almighty is clearly Saying that those who stray out of His Path
will receive no intercession. This is clearly stated in the Noble Verses above. Let's
look at the following quotes from them:
"...Nor will he find, besides God, any protector or helper..."

"...there is no guardian for them, nor any intercessor besides Him..."

"...it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah..."
etc...

Even in Noble Verse 2:254, which seems to give a general speech, when we look
closely at It, it too is Saying that those who stray from the Path of Allah Almighty will
find no intercession for them:
"O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you BEFORE the day comes
in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the
unbelievers - they are the unjust. (The Noble Quran, 2:254)"
The Noble Verse is clearly Warning the Believers that if they don't spend from what
was given to them by Allah Almighty for the Holy Cause of Allah Almighty, whether
it is for Charity or Jihad, then they will find no Forgiveness in the End.

To understand this further, let's look at the following Noble Verses:

Let us look at the following Noble Verses to see exactly where Allah Almighty Stands
on this topic:
"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth
anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin
Most heinous indeed. (The Noble Quran, 4:48)"
"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does
good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham
for a friend. (The Noble Quran, 4:125)"
"The Religion before God is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of
the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had
come to them. But if any deny the Signs of God, God is swift in calling to
account. (The Noble Quran, 3:19)"

"The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on
Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion,
and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than God, hard is
the (way) to which thou callest them. God chooses to Himself those whom He pleases,
and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). (The Noble Quran, 42:13)"
"They say: 'Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).' Say
thou: 'Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not
gods with God.' (The Noble Quran, 2:135)"
"Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed
his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with God. (The Noble
Quran, 3:67)"

It is clear that the Divine Religion that was sent to Abraham peace be upon him is the
Only Way that Allah Almighty Accepts. As He clearly Said in Noble Verse 4:48
above, He does not Forgive the sin of associating idols (humans or idols made from
stones and/or wood) with Him.
From this, we can now understand what situations would intercession by the Prophets,
peace be upon them, be accepted, and what situations intercession would not.
Definitely, intercession for the Muslims and the True Monotheistic Believers will be
accepted for only a select people (and not for everyone) as shown in the Noble Verses
below that Sam Shamoun had provided:
"...Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth?..."
"...No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been
obtained)..."
"On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has
been granted by (Allah) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him."
etc...

Intercession for the

disbelievers will never be
accepted!
He wrote:
2. There Will Be Intercession
a. The Quran
The next set of passages contradict the preceding passages regarding the
permissibility of intercession:
Allah! There is no god but He,- the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber
can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there
can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth
to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of
His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the
earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most
High, the Supreme (in glory). S. 2:255
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is
firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No
intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This
is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition? S. 10:3

On the day when We shall gather the righteous unto the Beneficent, a goodly
company. And drive the guilty unto hell, a weary herd, They will have no power of
intercession, save him who hath made a covenant with his Lord. S. 19:85-87
On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has
been granted by (Allah) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him. S.
20:109
And We did not send before you any messenger but We revealed to him that there is
no god but Me, therefore serve Me. And they say: The Beneficent Allah has taken to
Himself a son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants They do not precede
Him in speech and (only) according to His commandment do they act. He knows what
is before them and what is behind them, and they do not intercede except for him
whom He approves and for fear of Him they tremble. And whoever of them should
say: Surely I am a god besides Him, such a one do We recompense with hell; thus do,
We recompense the unjust. S. 21:25-29
"No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has
granted permission. So far (is this the case) that, when terror is removed from their
hearts (at the Day of Judgment, then) will they say, what is it that your Lord
commanded? they will say, That which is true and just; and He is the Most High
Most Great." S. 34:23
Those who sustain the Throne (of Allah) and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to
their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe: "Our
Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those
who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the
Penalty of the Blazing Fire! And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of
Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their
fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might,
Full of Wisdom. And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost
preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed: and
that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement." S. 40:7-9
And those unto whom they cry instead of Him possess no power of
intercession, saving him who beareth witness unto the Truth knowingly. S. 43:86

How many-so-ever be the angels in the heavens, their intercession will avail
nothing except after Allah has given leave for whom He pleases and that he is
acceptable to Him. S. 53:26

b. The Hadith
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
The Prophet said, "A man keeps on asking others for something till he comes on the
Day of Resurrection without any piece of flesh on his face." The Prophet added, "On
the Day of Resurrection, the Sun will come near (to, the people) to such an extent that
the sweat will reach up to the middle of the ears, so, when all the people are in that
state, they will ask Adam for help, and then Moses, and then Muhammad (p.b.u.h)."
The sub-narrator added "Muhammad will intercede with Allah to judge amongst
the people. He will proceed on till he will hold the ring of the door (of Paradise) and
then Allah will exalt him to Maqam Mahmud (the privilege of intercession, etc.).
And all the people of the gathering will send their praises to Allah. (Sahih Al-Bukhari,
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 553)
... 'Surely! Allah wrongs not even of the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant) but if
there is any good (done) He doubles it.' (4.40) The Prophet added, "Then the
prophets and Angels and the believers will intercede, and (last of all) the
Almighty (Allah) will say, Now remains My Intercession. He will then hold a
handful of the Fire from which He will take out some people whose bodies have been
burnt, and they will be thrown into a river at the entrance of Paradise, called the water
of life ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 532s)
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "For every Prophet there is one invocation which is definitely
fulfilled by Allah, and I wish, if Allah will, to keep my that (special) invocation as to
be the intercession for my followers on the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih AlBukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 566)
Narrated Mabad bin Hilal AlAnzi:
We, i.e., some people from Basra gathered and went to Anas bin Malik, and we went
in company with Thabit Al-Bunnani so that he might ask him about the Hadith of

Intercession on our behalf. Behold, Anas was in his palace, and our arrival coincided
with his Duha prayer. We asked permission to enter and he admitted us while he was
sitting on his bed. We said to Thabit, "Do not ask him about anything else first but the
Hadith of Intercession." He said, "O Abu Hamza! There are your brethren from Basra
coming to ask you about the Hadith of Intercession." Anas then said, "Muhammad
talked to us saying, On the Day of Resurrection the people will surge with each other
like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, Please intercede for us with
your Lord. He will say, I am not fit for that but you'd better go to Abraham as he is
the Khalil of the Beneficent. They will go to Abraham and he will say, I am not fit
for that, but you'd better go to Moses as he is the one to whom Allah spoke directly.
So they will go to Moses and he will say, I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to
Jesus as he is a soul created by Allah and His Word. (Be: And it was) they will go to
Jesus and he will say, I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Muhammad.
They would come to me and I would say, I am for that. Then I will ask for my
Lord's permission, and it will be given, and then He will inspire me to praise Him
with such praises as I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those praises and
will fall down, prostrate before Him. Then it will be said, O Muhammad, raise your
head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your
request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted. I will say, O Lord,
my followers! My followers! And then it will be said, Go and take out of Hell
(Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley
grain. I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall
down (prostrate) before Him. Then it will be said, O Muhammad, raise your head and
speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request);
and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted. I will say, O Lord, my
followers! My followers! It will be said, Go and take out of it all those who have
faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed. I will
go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down in
prostration before Him. It will be said, O, Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for
you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and
intercede, for your intercession will be accepted. I will say, O Lord, my
followers! Then He will say, Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is
faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire. I will
go and do so."

When we left Anas, I said to some of my companions, "Let's pass by Al-Hasan who is
hiding himself in the house of Abi Khalifa and request him to tell us what Anas bin
Malik has told us." So we went to him and we greeted him and he admitted us. We
said to him, "O Abu Said! We came to you from your brother Anas Bin Malik and he
related to us a Hadith about the intercession the like of which I have never heard." He
said, "What is that?" Then we told him of the Hadith and said, "He stopped at this
point (of the Hadith)." He said, "What then?" We said, "He did not add anything to
that." He said, Anas related the Hadith to me twenty years ago when he was a young
fellow. I don't know whether he forgot or if he did not like to let you depend on what
he might have said." We said, "O Abu Said! Let us know that." He smiled and said,
"Man was created hasty. I did not mention that, but that I wanted to inform you of it.
Anas told me the same as he told you and said that the Prophet added, I then return
for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him me the same as he
O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for
you will be granted (your request): and intercede, for your intercession will be
accepted. I will say,O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, None has
the right to be worshiped except Allah. Then Allah will say, By my Power, and my
Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of Hell (Fire)
whoever said: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah." (Sahih AlBukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 601)
It is reported on the authority of Abu Zubair that he heard from Jabir b. 'Abdullah,
who was asked about the arrival (of people on the Day of Resurrection). He said. We
would come on the Day of Resurrection like this, like this, and see, carefully, that
which concerns "elevated people". He (the narrator) said: Then the people would be
summoned along with their idols whom they worshipped, one after another. Then our
Lord would come to us and say: Whom are you waiting for? They would say: We are
waiting for our Lord. He would say: I am your Lord. They would say: (We are not
sure) till we gaze at Thee, and He would manifest Himself to them smilingly, and
would go along with them and they would follow Him; and every person, whether a
hypocrite or a believer, would be endowed with a light, and there would be spikes and
hooks on the bridge of the Hell, which would catch hold of those whom Allah willed.
Then the light of the hypocrites would be extinguished, and the believers would
secure salvation. and the first group to achieve it would comprise seventy thousand
men who would have the brightness of full moon on their faces, and they would not

be called to account. Then the people immediately following them would have their
faces as the brightest stars in the heaven. This is how (the groups would follow one
after another). Then the stage of intercession would come, and they (who are
permitted to intercede) would intercede, till he who had declared: "There is no
god but Allah" and had in his heart virtue of the weight of a barley grain would come
out of the Fire. They would be then brought in the courtyard of Paradise and the
inhabitants of Paradise would begin to sprinkle water over them till they would sprout
like the sprouting of a thing in flood water, and their burns would disappear. They
would ask their Lord till they would be granted (the bounties) of the world and with it
ten more besides it. (Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0367)
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that his son died in Qudaid or 'Usfan. He said to Kuraib
to see as to how many people had gathered there for his (funeral). He (Kuraib) said:
So I went out and I informed him about the people who had gathered there. He (Ibn
'Abbas) said: Do you think they are forty? He (Kuraib) said: Yes. Ibn 'Abbas then said
to them: Bring him (the dead body) out for I have heard Allah's Messenger (may
peace be upon him) as saying: If any Muslim dies and forty men who associate
nothing with Allah stand over his prayer (they offer prayer over him), Allah will
accept them as intercessors for him. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2072)
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I shall
be pre-eminent amongst the descendants of Adam on the Day of Resurrection and I
will be the first intercessor and the first whose intercession will be accepted (by
Allah). (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5655)
These hadiths say that Muhammad will not only be permitted to intercede, but that
many Muslims undeserving of Paradise will be taken out of hell because of his
intercession!

3. Discussion
Now there are some Muslims who also point to the following passages as proof that
Allah will accept the intercession of his prophets:
Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been
rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon

them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so
when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who
trust. S. 3:159
(Abraham) "O our Lord! cover (us) with Thy Forgiveness - me, my parents, and (all)
Believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established!" S. 14:41
(Abraham) "Forgive my father, for that he is among those astray;" S. 26:86
So know (O Muhammad) that there is no Allah save Allah, and ask forgiveness for
thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your
place of turmoil and your place of rest. S. 47:19 Pickthall
And when it is said to them, "Come, the Messenger of Allah will pray for your
forgiveness", they turn aside their heads, and thou wouldst see them turning away
their faces in arrogance. S. 63:5 cf. 4:64; 9:103; 24:62; 60:12
Several comments are in order. First, even though the Quran commands the prophets
and messengers to pray on behalf of others, there are other passages which show that
their prayers are not always accepted by Allah:
And do not plead on behalf of those who act unfaithfully to their souls; surely
Allah does not love him who is treacherous, sinful; S. 4:107
Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though
thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is
because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and Allah guideth not
wrongdoing folk. S. 9:80 Pickthall
And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dieth, nor stand by his
grave. Lo! they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and they died while they
were evil-doers. 9:84 Pickthall
And Noah called upon his Lord, and said: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my
family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!" He said: "O
Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that
of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the
ignorant!" Noah said: "O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for

that of which I have no knowledge. And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on
me, I should indeed be lost!" S. 11:45-47
Interestingly, the following hadith demonstrates that Abrahams alleged prayer for his
parents in S. 14:41 and 26:86 was not accepted:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection Abraham will meet his father Azar
whose face will be dark and covered with dust. (The Prophet Abraham will say to
him): Didn't I tell you not to disobey me? His father will reply: Today I will not
disobey you. Abraham will say: O Lord! You promised me not to disgrace me on
the Day of Resurrection; and what will be more disgraceful to me than cursing
and dishonoring my father? Then Allah will say (to him): I have forbidden
Paradise for the disbelievers." Then he will be addressed, O Abraham! Look! What is
underneath your feet? He will look and there he will see a Dhabh (an animal,) bloodstained, which will be caught by the legs and thrown in the (Hell) Fire." (Sahih
Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 569)
This hadith also provides support that the prophets' intercession will be of no avail,
even though this refers to an unbeliever. At the same time, this contradicts those
traditions stating that their intercession does avail!
Second, the prayers in these references do not take place at the Day of Judgment. As
such, they cannot be used to establish that Allah will allow prophets and messengers
to intercede on behalf of others.
Finally, these passages only add to the confusion since they do absolutely nothing to
resolve the problem. They simply provide further proof that there are irreconcilable
contradictions within the Quran.
A Muslim may bring out an additional argument to resolve the issue. There are two
contradictory passages that actually appear alongside side each other, namely S.
2:254-255:
O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in
which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the
unbelievers - they are the unjust. Allah! There is no god but He,- the Living, the Selfsubsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the

heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He
permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or
behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth.
His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in
guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory). S.
2:254-255
A Muslim may claim that this passage demonstrates that there is no contradiction in
the Quran, since it explains that no intercession can avail unless Allah permits it.
Again, a couple of comments are in order. First, even if we were to accept such an
explanation for this passage, seeing that the two verses exist side-by-side, it wouldnt
solve the other set of conflicting passages which are often far removed from each
other. Based on the laws of logic, however, a contradiction remains a contradiction
whether the contradictory statements are several chapters apart or found in the same
paragraph.
Second, there is a debate regarding the proper understanding of this passage. For
instance, does this passage teach that the only intercession acceptable to God is that
which he permits? Or does this passage actually mean that God can permit
intercession if he wanted to, but wont do so since he has determined that all
intercession belongs exclusively to him?
For an example of the latter interpretation, note the following comments taken from a
Muslim article:
Those who support intercession, however, quote the following verse from the Quran
to support their views: 'God! There is no God but He, - the living, the Self-subsisting,
Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on
earth. Who is there to intercede in His presence except as he permitteth? He knoweth
what (appeared to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they
compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His throne doth extend over
the heavens and the earth, and he feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them.
For He is the most High the Supreme (in glory)' (2:255). It is instructive to quote the
verse immediately prior to the above from the Quran:

"O ye who believe! Spend out of (the bounties) We have provided for you, before the
Day comes when no Bargaining (will avail), nor Friendship nor Intercession. Those
who reject faith - they are the wrong-doers" (2:254).
This verse puts beyond doubt that there is no intercession, as is repeated in the
verse (4:123-124) quoted above. Clearly, there is no need to go into more detail
regarding the interpretation of the verse (2:255), otherwise there appears to be a
contradiction in the Quran which is not possible. According to the Law of Requital
every human deed leaves its effect on the human personality. The Quran has used
metaphor to draw parallels with our experience in society. For example, we see in a
court how the accused is tried in the presence of witnesses for both the defence and
the prosecution. Sentence is then pronounced based on the evidence produced.
(Source; bold emphasis ours)

My response:
Again as I mentioned above, the following Noble Verses will clear up the confusion:
"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth
anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin
Most heinous indeed. (The Noble Quran, 4:48)"
"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does
good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham
for a friend. (The Noble Quran, 4:125)"
"The Religion before God is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of
the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had
come to them. But if any deny the Signs of God, God is swift in calling to
account. (The Noble Quran, 3:19)"

"The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on
Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion,
and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than God, hard is
the (way) to which thou callest them. God chooses to Himself those whom He pleases,
and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). (The Noble Quran, 42:13)"
"They say: 'Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).' Say
thou: 'Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not
gods with God.' (The Noble Quran, 2:135)"
"Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed
his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with God. (The Noble
Quran, 3:67)"

It is clear that the Divine Religion that was sent to Abraham peace be upon him is the
Only Way that Allah Almighty Accepts. As He clearly Said in Noble Verse 4:48
above, He does not Forgive the sin of associating idols (humans or idols made from
stones and/or wood) with Him.
From this, we can now understand what situations would intercession by the Prophets,
peace be upon them, be accepted, and what situations intercession would not.
Definitely, intercession for the Muslims and the True Monotheistic Believers will be
accepted for only a select people (and not for everyone) as shown in the Noble Verses
below that Sam Shamoun had provided:
"...Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth?..."
"...No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been
obtained)..."
"On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has
been granted by (Allah) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him."
etc...

Even in Noble Verse 2:254, which seems to give a general speech, when we look
closely at It, it too is Saying that those who stray from the Path of Allah Almighty will
find no intercession for them:
"O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you BEFORE the day comes
in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the
unbelievers - they are the unjust. (The Noble Quran, 2:254)"
The Noble Verse is clearly warning the believers that if they don't spend from what
was given to them by Allah Almighty for the Holy Cause of Allah Almighty, whether
it is for Charity or Jihad, then they will find no Forgiveness basically.

Again, intercession for the disbelievers will never be accepted!

He wrote:
Such glaring contradictions make it hard for any open minded and intelligent
person to take seriously the claim that the Quran is the word of the true God.

My response:
I'd like to ask this smarty who he himself claims that the bible contains "variant
readings" in his silly attempt to not admit that his bible contains overwhelming
amount ofCONTRADICTIONS and man's alterations and corruption in it, to use his

very own standards that he just uttered above against his bible, if he is truly not a
hypocrite.
Let's see if the "glaring contradictions" in his bible will make him, Mr. "intelligent
person" not "take seriously the claim that the" Bible "is the word of the true
God":

From http://www.answering-christianity.com/bible_quran_differences.htm:

Irrefutable contradictions, and proofs that the original

authors of today's Bible are UNKNOWN!
Muslims and Christians both agree that the Noble Quran does not agree with today's
Bible in everything. Just because the Bible might disagree on something in the Noble
Quran, it doesn't at all negate the claim of the Noble Quran or make it false. There is
a certain flow of logic that the Noble Quran presents which we the Muslims believe
that it is the truth.
The Bible's contents today were not written by their original authors. For example,
we read from the book of Matthew so many verses such as this one:
"...And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at
the receipt of custom: and HE (Jesus) saith unto HIM (Matthew), follow ME (Jesus)
and HE (Matthew) arose, and followed HIM (Jesus). (Matthew 9:9)"
Did "Matthew" write this about himself? Why then didn't Matthew write for example:
"he (Jesus) saw ME, and my name is Matthew. I was sitting at the receipt of
custom" etc.
Similarly, we read in the books of Moses things such as "And the LORD said to
Moses...", or "Moses went to that place....", etc... We also read in the Old
Testament about Moses' burial. Now if Moses alone supposedly wrote his books,
then how is it possible for him to write about his own burial when he is already
dead??!!

Such evidence can be found in many places throughout the Old Testament and the
New Testament. The so called "Original letters/Gospels" that were written in Greek
and Hebrew, were written by third party people!

Considerthefollowingfewexamplesthatconsistofhistoricalcontradictionsin
theBible:

IISamuel10:18talksaboutDavidslewthemenof700chariotsoftheSyriansand40,000
horsemenandShobachthecommander.
IChronicles1:18saysthatDavidslewthemenof7000chariotsand40,000footmen
IChronicles9:25saysthatSolomonhad4000stallsforhorsesandchariots.
IKings4:26saysthathehad40,000stallsforhorses
Ezra2:5talksaboutanexileArahhaving775sons.
Nehemiah7:10talksaboutthesameexileArahhaving652sons.

IISamuel24:13SoGodcametoDavid,andtoldhim,andsaiduntohim,shall
SEVENYEARSOFFAMINEcomeuntotheeinthyland?orwillthoufleethree
monthsbeforethineenemies,whiletheypursue.thee?
IChronicles21:11SOGodcametoDavid,andsaiduntohim,ThussaiththeLORD,
Choosethee.EitherTHREEYEARSOFFAMINEorthreemonthstobedestryed
beforethyfoes,whilethattheswordofthineenemiesovertakeththee;
HowdidJudasdie?
"Andhecastdownthepiecesofsilverintothetempleanddeparted,andwentoutand
hangedhimself."(Matthew27:5)
"Andfallingheadlong,heburstasunderinthemidst,andallofhisbowelsgushed
out."(Acts1:18)
2Samuel6:23ThereforeMICHALthedaughterofSaulhadnochilduntothedayof
herdeath.
2Samuel21:8ButthekingtookthetwosonsofRizpahthedaughterofAiah,whom
shebareuntoSaul,ArmoniandMephibosheth;andthefivesonsofMICHALthe

daughterofSaul,whomshebroughtupforAdrielthesonofBarzillaithe
Meholathite.
2Kings24:8Jehoiachinwaseighteenyearsoldwhenhebegantoreign,andhe
reignedinJerusalemthreemonths.Andhismother'snamewasNehushta,the
daughterofElnathanofJerusalem.
2Chronicles36:9Jehoiachinwaseightyearsoldwhenhebegantoreign,andhe
reignedthreemonthsandtendaysinJerusalem:andhedidthatwhichwasevilinthe
sightoftheLORD.
26thyearofthereignofAsaIKings16:68
36thyearofthereignofAsaI2Chronicles16:1
HowoldwasAhaziahwhenhebegantoreign?
22in2Kings8:26
42in2Chronicle22:2
WhowasJosiah'ssuccessor?
Jehoahaz2Chronicle36:1
ShallumJeremiah22:11
Also,youroriginalscripturesarealldoubtfulaccordingtotheBible'sowntheologians
andhistorians.It'squitehilariousthateventheBibleitselfadmitsthatithasbeen
tamperedwithandcorruptedbyman'sgarbage:
"`Howcanyousay,"We[theJews]arewise,forwehavethelawoftheLORD,"
whenactuallythelyingpenofthescribeshashandleditfalsely?'(FromtheNIV
Bible,Jeremiah8:8)"
TheRevisedStandardVersionmakesitevenclearer:"Howcanyousay,'Weare
wise,andthelawoftheLORDiswithus'?But,behold,thefalsepenofthe
scribeshasmadeitintoalie.(FromtheRSVBible,Jeremiah8:8)"
AndregardingwhowrotethebooksandgospelsoftheBible,asIquotedabove,here
isasampleofwhattheNIVBible'stheologiansandhistorianswrote:

"SeriousdoubtsexistsastowhethertheseversesbelongtotheGospelofMark.
Theyareabsentfromimportantearlymanuscriptsanddisplaycertainpeculiaritiesof
vocabulary,styleandtheologicalcontentthatareunliketherestofMark.HisGospel
probablyendedat16:8,oritsoriginalendinghasbeenlost.(FromtheNIVBible
FootNotes,page1528)"
"Althoughtheauthordoesnotnamehimself,evidenceoutsidetheScripturesand
inferencesfromthebookitselfleadtotheconclusionthattheauthorwas
Luke.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page1643)"
"Thewriterofthisletterdoesnotidentifyhimself,buthewasobviouslywell
knowntotheoriginalrecipients.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page1856)"
"Theletterisdifficulttodatewithprecision....(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,
page1905)"
"Itseemssafetoconcludethatthebook,atleastinitsearlyform,datesfromthe
beginningofthemonarchy.SomethinkthatSamuelmayhavehadahandinshaping
orcompilingthematerialsofthebook,butinfactweareunsurewhothefinal
authororeditorwas.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page286)"
"Although,accordingtotradition,Samuelwrotethebook,authorshipisactually
uncertain.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page322)"
"Thedateofthecompositionisalsounknown,butitwasundoubtedlyduringthe
monarchy.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page322)"
"Theauthorisunknown.JewishtraditionpointstoSamuel,butitisunlikelythathe
istheauthorbecausethementionofDavid(4:17,22)impliesalaterdate.(Fromthe
NIVBibleCommentary,page360)"
"Whotheauthorwascannotbeknownwithcertaintysincethebookitselfgives
noindicationofhisidentity.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page368)"
"Thereislittleconclusiveevidenceastotheidentityoftheauthorof1,2
Kings.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page459)"

"Whoevertheauthorwas,itisclearthathewasfamiliarwiththebookof
Deuteronomy.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page459)"
"AccordingtoancientJewishtradition,EzrawroteChronicles,EzraandNehemiah
(seeIntroductiontoEzra:LiteraryFormandAuthorship),butthiscannotbe
establishedwithcertainty.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page569)"
"AlthoughwedonotknowwhowrotethebookofEsther,frominternalevidenceit
ispossibletomakesomeinferencesabouttheauthorandthedateof
composition.(FromtheNIVBibleCommentary,page707)"
"Theunknownauthorprobablyhadaccesstooraland/orwrittensources....(From
theNIVBiblecommentary,page722)"
"Regardingauthorship,opinionsareevenmoredivided....(FromtheNIVBible
Commentary,page773)"
etc...