Plaintiffs' Reply ISO Their Amended Motion For PI

E-Notice
2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
To: Matthew Vincent Topic
matt@loevy.com
NOTICE OF ELECTRONIC FILING

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS
ANDREW THAYER vs. CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL
2016-CH-09212
The transmission was received on 10/11/2016 at 12:29 PM and was ACCEPTED with
the Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County on 10/11/2016 at 1:31 PM.
MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF MOTION FILED
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265
DOROTHY BROWN
CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT
CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT

COOK COUNTY
RICHARD J. DALEY CENTER, ROOM 1001
CHICAGO, IL 60602
(312) 603-5031
courtclerk@cookcountycourt.com
ELECTRONICALLY FILED
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 16
CIRCUIT COURT OF
COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS
CHANCERY DIVISION
COUNTY DEPARTMENT, CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
ANDREW THAYER,
RICK GARCIA,
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
Plaintiffs,
v.
CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL,
Defendant.
16 CH 09212
Judge Diane J. Larsen
PLAINTIFFS REPLY IN SUPPORT OF THEIR AMENDED MOTION FOR

PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION
It is undisputed that not a single member of the public waiting in line was able to attend
either the May 18, 2016 or June 22, 2016 CITY COUNCIL meetings until long after they started.
The reason: Defendants longstanding practice of giving out preferential seat reservations.
Moreover, Defendant concedes that there was no opportunity for public comment at either the
May 18 or June 22 meetings. These violations of the Open Meetings Acts explicit requirements
necessitate the issuance of a preliminary injunction requiring CITY COUNCIL to comply with
OMA by holding properly open meetings and providing an opportunity for people to address
public officials at CITY COUNCIL meetings.
I.
ARGUMENT
A. Defendant Misstates The Specific Preliminary Injunction Standards In OMA Cases

i. A Relaxed Two-Part Test Applies In OMA Cases
Defendant incorrectly states that general preliminary injunction standards apply rather
than the controlling caselaw specific to OMA cases.
Def. Opp. at 4-6.
As discussed in
Plaintiffs opening brief, instead of the normal preliminary injunction prongs, when a statute
such as OMA explicitly provides for injunctive relief Plaintiffs must allege and show only that
(1) the defendant has violated the statute and (2) the plaintiff has standingthere is no necessity
to prove irreparable damage or the absence of an adequate remedy at law. Roxana Cmty. Unit
Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. WRB Ref., LP, 2012 IL App (4th) 120331 at 24 (citations omitted) (emphasis
added).
Defendant misstates the controlling caselaw laid out in WRB Refining, LP. Def. Opp. 46; Roxana Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. WRB Ref., LP, 2012 IL App (4th) 120331. Contrary to
the explicit language of the case, Defendant contends that even under WRB Refining, LP,
Plaintiffs must still prove additional elements of the traditional preliminary injunction test, such
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as a likelihood of future irreparable harm. Id. at 5. Defendant argues for a distinction between
proving past harm versus future harm, stating that WRB Refining, LP might alleviate the burden
for proving past irreparable harm, but not for proving future harm. Id. Notably, when misstating
what WRB Refining, LP held, Defendant provides no cite or authority other than the quote which
explicitly contradicts its position (plaintiff need allege and show only that (1) the defendant has
violated the statute and (2) the plaintiff has standingthere is no necessity to prove irreparable
damage or the absence of an adequate remedy at law.). Id. The holding of WRB Refining, LP,
is clear and explicit and Defendants attempts to spin the holding into something more
complicated should be rejected. Plaintiffs need only show that they have standing and that
Defendant violated OMA.
ii. Defendants Mislabeled Standing Argument Is Rejected By The
Controlling Caselaw
Apparently recognizing that the normal prongs of the preliminary injunction test do not
apply here, Defendant tries to frame its argument that there is no likelihood future irreparable
injury will occur as a standing argument. 1 Def. Opp. at 6-7. The Court need go no further as
Defendants standing argument is wholly inapplicable under the governing caselaw because
the irreparable injury prong of the preliminary injunction test does not apply here. Regardless,
even if Defendant could argue its standing issue, the argument still fails on the merits. The
remedies section of OMA does not distinguish between remedies for standing purposes. 5 ILCS
120/3. Rather, OMA Section 3 inclusively gives standing to any person when OMA was
violated regardless of whether they are seeking an injunction or other relief. Id.
B. Defendants Closed Meetings Must Be Enjoined
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i.
Defendant Incorrectly Defines Open Meeting Requirements And

Mischaracterizes Its Recurring OMA Violations
Citing Section 2(a), Defendant incorrectly defines a closed meeting as one where public
attendance is not allowed. Def. Opp. at 2. OMA Section 2(a) states: Openness required. All
meetings of public bodies shall be open to the public unless excepted in subsection (c) and closed
in accordance with Section 2a. 5 ILCS 120/2(a). Defendants definition is at odds with the
plain language of OMA.
In addition, the Appellate Court has held that meetings can be
improperly closed meetings under OMA even where members of the public gain admittance.
Gerwin v. Livingston Cty. Bd., 345 Ill. App. 3d 352, 358 (2003).
For example, giving
preferential access to meetings to certain people constitutes a closed meeting under OMA, as
discussed in more detail below. Id.
Defendant argues that the ability to watch videos or streams of a meeting, or the ability to
read a transcript of a meeting, somehow satisfies its statutory obligation to hold open meetings.
Plaintiffs need not allege a risk of future harm to themselves though they have done so
anyways. Both Plaintiffs have furnished affidavits declaring their intent to attend future CITY
COUNCIL meetings. Ex. A (Thayer Aff. 2); Ex. B (Garcia Aff. 2). Furthermore, Plaintiffs
demonstrate, infra, that Defendants seating and public comment policies adopted in response to
this litigation will continue to violate OMA even if they are followed.
3
Def. Opp. at 8. Defendant describes OMA as having some sort of vague policy only allowing
the citizenry to observe the workings of public bodies. Id. This argument is false on its face. 5
ILCS 120/1. OMAs third sentence explicitly states that it is the public policy of this State that
its citizens shall be given advance notice of and the right to attend all meetings at which any
business of a public body is discussed or acted upon in any way. 5 ILCS 120/1 (emphasis
added).
In addition, Defendant repeatedly describes its violations of OMA as two isolated
events. Def. Opp. at 1, 5-6. It argues that if violations are isolated and there is no showing
that CITY COUNCIL is likely to violate the Act in the future then a preliminary injunction is
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not warranted. Def. Opp. at 1, 5-6. Defendants argument is doomed for two reasons. First,
Plaintiffs allege four violations of OMA, two violations that recurred on at least two separate
occasions. Ver. Am. Compl. 32-43. On both May 18, 2016, and June 22, 2016, Defendant
held improperly closed meetings and did not allow any public comment at all.
Second,
Defendant again misstates the law. Plaintiffs need not allege multiple recurring violations, even
though they did. Roxana Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. WRB Ref., LP, 2012 IL App (4th)
120331 24. Plus, Defendant concedes that it is normal for people to be stuck in line trying to
get into CITY COUNCIL meetings an hour to an hour-and-a-half after they have started. Ex. C
(Kipka Dep.) at 22:3-22:6. Moreover, the Appellate Court has explicitly stated that there is a
presumption that any violation of OMA causes a distinctly public harm. Roxana Cmty. Unit
Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. WRB Ref., LP, 2012 IL App (4th) 120331 26. Finally, Defendant has a
100% OMA violation rate as far as Plaintiffs are aware and Defendant has refused to produce
discovery on any meetings besides the May 18 and June 22 meetings. Def. Disc. Resp. RFP
3-4, attached as Ex. D.
ii.
Preferential Seat Reservations Are Not Permitted To The Exclusion

Of The Public
CITY COUNCIL meetings in which not a single member of the public without
preferential seat reservations can attend until well after a meeting has started are not open
meetings under OMA. 2
Rather, giving preferential admission to certain groups or people
violates OMA. Gerwin 345 Ill. App. 3d at 358.

The Appellate Court has previously defined open for OMA purposes: Open means
not restricted to a particular group or category of participants. Gerwin 345 Ill. App. 3d at 358
(citing MerriamWebster's Collegiate Dictionary 811 (10th ed. 2000)).
In addition, the
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Appellate Court has flatly rejected the notion that meetings need only be open in a technical
sense as Defendant suggests. Gerwin 345 Ill. App. 3d at 359. In Gerwin, it was alleged that the
public body gave agents of a company preferential access to the meeting and to that extent
improperly excluded opposition. Id. The Gerwin court held that if true, this was a violation of
OMA and not a properly open meeting. Id. The court further stated that the meeting being
officially open did not refute the claim that the public body gave preferential admission to
certain people and, to that extent, restricted the audience to a particular group. Id. CITY
COUNCIL has a longstanding practice giving preferential access to people by reserving seats for
them. Ex. E (Starks Dep.) at 56:6-12, 58:2-5; Ex. F (Brown Dep.) at 28:21-23. Members of the
public are given not even secondary access, but tertiary access to seats after those with
reservations and their companions without reservations get theirs. Ex. F at 60:17-62:14. As a
result, the May 18 and June 22 CITY COUNCIL meetings were improperly closed meetings.
Defendant spends time describing Thayers reasons for attending the May 18, 2016, meeting.
Def. Opp. at 8; Def. Supp. Opp. at 2. This is of no relevance under OMA. 5 ILCS 120/1.
5
This is not an isolated problem. There are 213 public seats on the second floor of the
CITY COUNCIL chamber and 99 public seats in the third floor gallery. Ex. F at 27:4-13. Of
these seats, 44 on the second floor are permanently reserved. Ex. E at 56:6-12, 58:2-5; Ex. F at
28:21-23. At the May 18 meeting, at least 198 seats on the second floor were reserved ahead of
time. Ex. F at 56:13-16; Ex. G. At the June 22 meeting, at least 190 seats on the second floor
were reserved ahead of time. Ex. F at 59:18-60:1; Ex. G. Defendant concedes that even the very
first people in line at CITY COUNCIL meetings without preferential seat reservations very
regular[ly] would not get the few supposedly unreserved seats because they are taken by other
groups. 3 Ex. F at 60:17-62:14. At both the May 18 and June 22 meetings not a single seat on
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either the second or third floors was set aside for people without preferential seat reservations.
Ex. F at 32:12-17, 34:3-7. This longstanding practice of preferential reserved seating violates
OMAs overarching purpose in the most fundamental way.
In order to implement OMAs broad requirement of openness, there are also a number
of subsidiary requirements public bodies must meet, including the convenience requirement.
Gerwin v. Livingston Cty. Bd., 345 Ill. App. 3d 352, 359 (2003). The convenience requirement
can be violated in different ways. For example, holding a meeting in a location too small to
accommodate members of the public violates the open and convenient requirements of OMA
because members of the public would have difficulty gaining admittance. Id. at 362. The
Appellate Court also stated that a public body knowingly not providing enough seating for
members of the public when the body had one weeks notice of the number of people wanting to
attend supports a finding that a meeting was not truly open. Id. at 362-363.
These other groups are typically groups that had preferential seat reservations, but decided to
bring additional people beyond the number of seats Defendant had already reserved for them.
Ex. F at 60:17-62:14.
6
Here, Plaintiffs experienced far more than mere difficulty gaining admittance, and
CITY COUNCIL had much more than one weeks notice of the number of people wanting to
attend the May 18 and June 22 meetings. Either of these points alone is sufficient to find that
Defendant did not hold truly open meetings as OMA requires. It is undisputed that on May 18,
Thayer, along with about seven others, lined up an hour-and-a-half before the meeting began and
were the very first people in line. Ver. Am. Compl. 9-10; Def. Ans. 9-10. It is undisputed
that on June 22, Garcia, along with one other, lined up about an hour-and-a-half before the
meeting began. Ver. Am. Compl. 22, 25; Def. Ans. 22, 25. It is undisputed that not a
single member of the public, including the very first people in line, gained admittance to either
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the May 18 or June 22 CITY COUNCIL meetings when they started. Ver. Am. Compl. 10,
25; Def. Ans. 10, 25. Further, it is undisputed that for the first hour of the May 18 meeting
and at least the first two hours of the June 22 meeting not a single member of the public waiting
in line got into the meetings. Ver. Am. Compl. 11, 26; Def. Ans. 11, 26. This alone
necessitates finding that both the May 18 and June 22 meetings were improperly closed meetings
in blatant violation of OMA.
Additionally, Defendant had far more than one weeks notice regarding the number of
people that usually desire to attend CITY COUNCIL meetings. Ex. C at 22:10-23:7. Defendant
concedes that almost every CITY COUNCIL meeting has lines over 50 people long. Id. In
addition, Defendant acknowledges that it has lines over 100 people long multiple times a year
and has had at least one line 200 people long. Id. Furthermore, Defendant concedes that it is
normal for people to be stuck in line trying to get into CITY COUNCIL meetings an hour to an
hour-and-a-half after they have started. Id. at 22:3-22:6. This is much more egregious than the
mere difficulty gaining admittance contemplated by the Gerwin court. Despite knowing that
almost every meeting has at least 50 people without seat reservations desiring to get in, and
frequently dozens more than that, Defendant failed to properly accommodate a single person at
either the May 18 or June 22 meetings.
iii.
Defendants New Seating Policy Is Inadequate
Defendant states that its new seating policy, created and adopted in response to this
litigation, obviates the need for a preliminary injunction. Def. Opp. at 7. Even if Defendants
new seating policy were adequate, an injunction would still be necessary under the law. Roxana
Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. WRB Ref., LP, 2012 IL App (4th) 120331 24 (To obtain an
injunction in an OMA case, the plaintiff must allege and show only that (1) the defendant has
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violated the statute and (2) the plaintiff has standing.).

Defendant states that it has changed its policy and that the preliminary injunction issue is
moot. In the context of the First Amendment, both the Supreme Court and Seventh Circuit have
held, however, that [a] defendants voluntary cessation of allegedly unlawful conduct ordinarily
does not suffice to moot a case. Friends of the Earth, Inc. v. Laidlaw Envtl. Servs., Inc., 528
U.S. 167, 174 (2000); see also Nelson v. Miller, 570 F.3d 868, 882 (7th Cir. 2009). Rather, a
defendant claiming that its voluntary compliance moots a case bears the formidable burden of
showing that it is absolutely clear the allegedly wrongful behavior could not reasonably be
expected to recur. Friends of the Earth, 528 U.S. at 190 (internal citation omitted); Nelson, 570
F.3d at 882.
Defendants already formidable burden is intensified where, as here, the
voluntary cessation only appears to have occurred in response to the present litigation, which
shows a greater likelihood that it could be resumed. Northland Family Planning Clinic, Inc. v.
Cox, 487 F.3d 323, 342-43 (6th Cir. 2007) (citing Ragsdale v. Turnock, 841 F.2d 1358, 1366 (7th
Cir. 1988) (We share the district courts concern that the States position on this provision is
asserted only in this litigation.)).
8
Furthermore, Defendant continues to maintain that its former practice did not violate
OMA. According to Defendants logic, Defendant could wait until the cessation of litigation and
immediately resume its former practices in violation of OMA. Injunctive relief is especially
appropriate in situations like this one, where the defendants are otherwise free to return to their
illegal action at any time. See United States v. W.T. Grant Co., 345 U.S. 629, 633 (1953)
(holding that defendants assertion that it has no intention of reinstating the challenged practice
does not suffice to make a case moot); see also Am. Soc'y of Plumbing Engineers v. TMB Pub.,
Inc., 109 F. App'x 781, 785-786 (7th Cir. 2004).
Regardless, the new policy is inadequate for multiple independent reasons. First, the
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policy only sets aside a total of 30 seats that cannot be reserved out of 312. Ex. I; Ex. F at 27:413. Defendant entirely ignores the historic number of people that attend CITY COUNCIL
meetings when it created this policy. As discussed previously, Defendant concedes that at
essentially every CITY COUNCIL meeting there are at least 50 members of the public without
seat reservations desiring to get in, if not 100 or more. Ex. C at 22:10-23:7. Next, the policy
prohibits lining up more than one hour prior to a CITY COUNCIL meeting even though people
have lined up an hour and a half prior to meetings and still were unable to get in when they
started. Ex. I; Ver. Am. Compl. 9-11, 22, 25-26; Def. Ans. 9-11, 22, 25-26.
Furthermore, allowing the public to reserve seats is insufficient and problematic at best.
Ex. I. First, the public should not have to reserve seats at all in order to attend a CITY
COUNCIL meeting and there is nothing in OMA that requires advanced reservations. Second,
the opaque nature of applying for seat reservations leaves the public no way to police the policy
as truly being first-come first-served. It is clear that the first-come first-serve policy is not
always followed. Ex. F at 89:10-90:3 (assistant sergeant-at-arms refusing seat reservations to
one group stating seats were not available and later granting additional seat reservations to
another group). Third, the reservation policy requires members of the public to provide their
identifying information including a description of the group requesting the reserved seating to
subject themselves to a vague, unofficial and unsupervised screening process. Ex. F at 44:2-15;
Ex. I. This unofficial and unsupervised process consists of a lone employee, with no security
training, researching people on Google based on nothing more than a hunch. Ex. F at 45:1447:13. This ambiguous screening process is not even executed in an unbiased manner because
not every group applying for seat reservations is screened. Id. This newly created seating policy
does little to nothing to fix Defendants violations of OMA and instead introduces a fresh slew of
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problems, most notably, that unlike a process in which everyone can see whether a line is
processed in a first-come first-serve manner, a reservation system allows CITY COUNCIL to
violate the policy without the public seeing it happening.
C. Defendant Must Allow Public Comment
i.
OMA Guarantees The Public The Right To Address Public

Officials At Open Meetings
OMA Section 2.06(g) states:

Any person shall be permitted an opportunity to address public officials under the rules
established and recorded by the public body.
5 ILCS 120/2.06(g). Defendant concedes that it is a public body under OMA required to provide
an opportunity for public comment. Def. Ans. at 36, 42. Defendant also concedes that there
was no opportunity for public comment at both the May 18 and June 22 CITY COUNCIL
meetings. Ver. Am. Compl. 20, 31; Def. Ans. 20, 31; Ex. E at 41:22-42:5. This Court
need go no further to find that Defendant violated the plain language of OMA.
Defendant argues that the ability to mail or email a public official satisfies the
requirements of Section 2.06(g). Def. Supp. Opp. at 1-2. The Appellate Court has rejected this
10
position. Roxana Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. Envtl. Prot. Agency, 2013 IL App (4th) 120825,
58 (Here, the Boards rules restricted the opportunity to address that body to written filings. . .
. The Boards actions not only violated the aforementioned specific sections of the Open
Meetings Act but also its overarching purpose.) Restricting the opportunity to address public
officials to writing violates both Section 2.06(g) and OMAs overarching purpose. Id.
Defendant mischaracterizes Section 2.06(g) and states that it need only provide an
opportunity to address public officials at the meetings of its choosing because OMA gives it the
right to enforce rules that it established and recorded regarding public comment. Def. Opp. at
9-11; 5 ILCS 120/2.06(g). To begin, Defendant failed to come forward with evidence that it
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even has established and recorded rules regarding public comment that it may enforce. 5 ILCS
120/2.06(g); See Ill. Atty. Gen. Binding PAC Opinion 14-009 (The plain language of section
2.06(g) of OMA provides that individuals are entitled to address a public body subject only to a
public bodys established and recorded rules.). Instead, Defendant references a tradition of
not providing an opportunity for public comment at CITY COUNCIL meetings. Def. Opp. at 4.
In any event, Defendants argument is unfounded. OMA details the requirements of
every meeting. 5 ILCS 120. If Defendants position were correct, then any public body could
arbitrarily eliminate public comment from any meeting it chose simply by creating a rule doing
so. As the Illinois Appellate Court stated in Environmental Protection Agency, the failure to
provide an opportunity to address public officials at a public meeting is both a violation of the
explicit language of 2.06(g) and a violation of OMAs overarching purpose. Roxana Cmty.
Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. Envtl. Prot. Agency, 2013 IL App (4th) 120825, 57-58. OMA exists
in great part to protect and encourage public debate. People ex rel. Ryan v. Vill. of Villa Park,
212 Ill. App. 3d 187, 193 (1991). Defendants logic would foreclose public debate by continuing
11
to prohibit public comment and foreclosing public debate is completely contrary to the
objectives of the Act. Id. As the Appellate Court has stated, the drafters of the Act recognized
the value of citizen input and participation in government in a democratic society. People ex
rel. Ryan v. Vill. of Villa Park, 212 Ill. App. 3d 187, 192 (1991).
Defendant argues that First Amendment jurisprudence, specifically City of Aurora,
somehow supports its position of not allowing public comment at CITY COUNCIL meetings.
Def. Opp. at 11; Rana Enterprises, Inc v. City of Aurora, 630 F. Supp. 2d 912, 924-25 (2009).
Defendant is wrong for two independent reasons. First, Plaintiffs are not alleging any violation
of the First Amendment; Plaintiffs have alleged four violations of OMA. While the First
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Amendment sets a floor with regard to the right to speak and petition, OMA grants even greater
rights. (Indeed, OMAs provision would be superfluous if it only extended as far as First
Amendment rights.) Second, even if a First Amendment analysis is appropriate, both First
Amendment jurisprudence generally, and City of Aurora specifically, support Plaintiffs. Def.
Opp. at 11; City of Aurora 630 F. Supp. 2d at 924-25. Defendant describes the meeting in
question in City of Aurora as a non-public forum, at which the public had no right to speak.
Def. Opp. at 11. Here, Defendant concedes that it is a public body under OMA required to hold
open meetings and provide an opportunity for public comment. Def. Ans. at 33, 36, 39, 42.
Clearly public bodies subject to OMA may not eliminate the opportunity to address public
officials entirely.
In addition, binding PAC opinions relying on a First Amendment analysis provide
compelling persuasive authority as to what kind of rules a public body may promulgate under
Section 2.06(g) and establish that public bodies may not create rules eliminating the opportunity
to address public officials at a meeting entirely. See Ill. Atty Gen. Binding PAC Opinion 14-
12
009; Ill. Atty Gen. Binding PAC Opinion 14-012. For example, public bodies may impose
reasonable time limits for each speaker to conserve time and ensure others receive an opportunity
to speak as well. Id. They may not use their rules to eliminate public comment entirely.
Defendant also asks the Court to consider OMAs legislative history. Def. Opp. at 9-10.
Defendant states that the fact that the phrase at meetings subject to this Act was considered by
the legislature, but did not make it into Section 2.06(g) somehow indicates that the General
Assembly intended to exempt meetings from the public comment requirement. Id. Legislative
history is irrelevant where, as here, the plain text of the statute provides an answer. Maschek v.
City of Chicago, 2015 IL App (1st) 150520, 44 (If the statutory language is clear, we must
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apply it, without resort to any aids of statutory construction. If, and only if, the statutory
language is ambiguous, may we look to other sources to ascertain the legislature's intent.)
(citations omitted). Nor is legislative inaction a reliable manner of interpreting a statute anyway.
E.g., Bob Jones Univ. v. United States, 461 U.S. 574, 600 (1983) (Ordinarily, and quite
appropriately, courts are slow to attribute significance to the failure of Congress to act on
particular legislation. We have observed that unsuccessful attempts at legislation are not the
best of guides to legislative intent.) (citations omitted). Regardless, Defendants argument is
nonsensical on its face. Section 2.06(g) was added to OMA effective January 1, 2011, in order
to require that all public bodies subject to the Act provide an opportunity for members of the
public to address public officials at open meetings. Ill. Atty Gen. Binding PAC Opinion 14009; Ill. Atty Gen. Binding PAC Opinion 14-012 (emphasis added). If the Court wishes to
engage in speculation about the significance of the phrase at meetings subject to this Act, it
should not follow Defendants interpretation which is illogical and contradicts common sense.
Instead, it is far more plausible that the phrase did not make the final cut because it is
13
superfluous. Section 2.06(g) applies to meetings subject to OMA because that is what the entire
statute is about. 5 ILCS 120/1.
ii.
Defendants New Public Comment Policy Violates OMA
Though Defendant did not note or rely on it in its briefing, it created a public comment
policy (likely in response to this litigation) which Plaintiffs will address. 4 Ex. J. This newly
enacted policy further indicates that Defendant did not even have established and recorded
rules regarding public comment that it could enforce prior to this suit. Id.
The newly adopted policy is inadequate and violates OMA. The policy still does not
provide any opportunity to address CITY COUNCIL at CITY COUNCIL meetings. Ex. J.
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Instead, it only provides for addressing a subset of public officials at committee meetings. Id.
CITY COUNCIL and its committees are separate public bodies. 5 ILCS 120/1.02 (Public
body includes all legislative . . . bodies of the State . . . and any subsidiary bodies of any of the
foregoing including but not limited to committees and subcommittees.).
Next, Defendants policy contains a content restriction on public comment. Id. It states
that members of the public may only address the subject matter appearing on the agenda of the
meeting in question. Id. OMA does not restrict the subject matter members of the public may
address. 5 ILCS 120/2.06(g). Allowing a public body to promulgate content restriction rules
would let the body control what kind of complaints it hears from the public. For example, if a
public body never wanted to hear citizen remarks regarding police misconduct it could simply
never put that issue on the agenda. OMA was created to prevent public business from being
hidden in such a manner. It is the public policy of this State that public bodies exist to aid in the
Defendant adopted this new seating policy on October 5, 2016, and produced the policy to
Plaintiffs on October 6, 2016, just days before Plaintiffs deadline to file this brief. Ex. J.
14
conduct of the peoples business and that the people have a right to be informed as to the conduct
of their business. 5 ILCS 120/1.
D. Remaining Traditional Preliminary Injunction Factors
While not necessary (or even relevant) under the controlling caselaw, Plaintiffs will
address the remaining traditional preliminary injunction factors.
i.
Protectable Right
OMA makes clear that any person may bring suit when OMA has been violated, and may
seek, among other remedies, an injunction declaring actions taken at an improper meeting null
and void.
5 ILCS 120/3.
Thus Plaintiffs have a protectable right in seeking relief for
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Defendants violations of OMA at both the May 18 and June 22 meetings.

ii.
Irreparable Harm And No Adequate Remedy At Law
OMA does not provide for damages claims, but only injunctive relief. As such, there is
no adequate remedy at law. In addition, OMA grants even greater rights beyond the floor that
the First Amendment already provides and it is well established that the loss of First
Amendment freedoms, for even minimal periods of time, unquestionably constitutes irreparable
injury, and [that] money damages are therefore inadequate. Joelner, 378 F.3d at 620 (quoting
Elrod v. Burns, 427 U.S. 347, 373 (1976)). If a policy violates OMA, an injunction is plainly the
appropriate remedy.
II.
CONCLUSION
For these reasons this Court should issue a preliminary injunction requiring CITY
COUNCIL to comply with OMA by holding properly open meetings and providing an
opportunity for people to address public officials at CITY COUNCIL meetings.
15
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Joshua Hart Burday
_________________________________
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Attorneys for Plaintiffs

ANDREW THAYER
RICK GARCIA
Matthew Topic
Joshua Burday
LOEVY & LOEVY
311 North Aberdeen, 3rd floor
Chicago, IL 60607
(312) 243-5900
matt@loevy.com
joshb@loevy.com
Atty. No. 41295
Alan Mills
UPTOWN PEOPLES LAW CENTER
4413 N. Sheridan Road
Chicago IL 60640
Alan@uplcchicago.org
Atty. No. 70272
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, Joshua Burday, an attorney, certify that on October 11, 2016 I served the foregoing
Plaintiffs Reply in Support of Their Amended Motion for Preliminary Injunction via electronic
mail on all counsel of record.
/s/ Joshua Hart Burday
16
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CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 1
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
Exhibit A
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2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 1
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
Exhibit B
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2016-CH-09212
JOSEPH KIPKA
September
21, 2016
CALENDAR:
07
PAGE 1 of 341
THAYER and GARCIA -vs- CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL
CIRCUIT COURT OF
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
2 COUNTY DEPARTMENT - CHANCERY DIVISION

3 ANDREW THAYER and RICK )
4 GARCIA, )
5 Plaintiffs, )
6 -vs- ) No. 16 CH 09212
7 CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL, )
8 Defendant. )
9 The deposition of JOSEPH KIPKA, called
10 for examination, taken pursuant to the provisions
11 of the Code of Civil Procedure and the Rules of the
12 Supreme Court of the State of Illinois pertaining
13 to the taking of depositions for the purpose of
14 discovery, taken before KAREN A. FAZIO, CSR
15 No. 84-1834, a Notary Public within and for the
16 County of Cook, State of Illinois, and a Certified
17 Shorthand Reporter of said state, at 311 North
18 Aberdeen, Third Floor, Chicago, Illinois, on the
19 21st day of September, A.D. 2016, commencing at
20 9:28 a.m.
21
22
23
24
Exhibit C
800.211.DEPO (3376)
EsquireSolutions.com
JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

2
1 PRESENT:
2 LOEVY & LOEVY,
3 (311 North Aberdeen Street, 3rd Floor,
4 Chicago, Illinois 60607,
5 (312) 243-5900), by:
6 MR. JOSHUA BURDAY and
7 MS. KATE MILLER,
8 appeared on behalf of the Plaintiffs,
9
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10 CORPORATION COUNSEL, CITY OF CHICAGO,

11 (30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 1230,
13 (312) 744-7220), by:
14 MR. ANDREW S. MINE,
15 MS. MAGGIE SOBOTA and
16 MS. TARA KENNEDY,
17 appeared on behalf of the Defendant.
18
19
20
21
22 REPORTED BY: KAREN A. FAZIO, CSR
23 CSR No. 84-1834
24
800.211.DEPO (3376)
YVer1f
JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

3
1 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly

2 sworn.)
3 JOSEPH KIPKA,
4 called as a witness herein, having been first duly
5 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
6 EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. State and spell your name.
9 A. My name a Joseph R. Kipka, last name
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10 K-I-P-K-A.
11 Q. Have you been deposed before?
12 A. Yes, I have.
13 Q. How many times have you been deposed
14 before?
15 A. Probably -- maybe two, three times.
16 Q. When was that?
17 A. It was going back at least 12, 13 years
18 ago was the last time.
19 Q. What were those depositions about?
20 A. The last one was a result from an arrest
21 we made, and we were being sued for violation of
22 civil rights, and I don't recall the other one.
23 know I've given them before, but I don't really

24 recall, except for that last one.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

4
1 Q. And the civil rights suit you mentioned,

2 do you remember more specifically what was going on
3 there?
4 A. I believe the gentleman was stating that
5 we arrested him unjustly.
6 Q. You understand that you're testifying
7 under oath, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And nothing is interfering with your
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10 ability to give complete and accurate testimony?

11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. You're not under -- using any
13 medications that would impair you in any way?
14 A. No.
15 Q. And I think my questions are usually
16 pretty clear, but if there's every one that you
17 don't understand or isn't clear to you, just let me
18 know, and I'll rephrase it for you. Okay?
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. And I'm not asking you to speculate at
21 any time. If the answer is you don't know, just
22 say you don't know.
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. You understand that you're being deposed
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

5
1 as a representative of the Chicago City Council

2 with regards to admitting, denying members of the
3 public entry to the May 18th and June 22nd City
4 Council meetings, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. How did you prepare for this deposition?
7 A. We did a -- I guess you call it a
8 session with the assistant state's attorney and
9 talked about, you know, what my duties are and
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10 stuff like that.

11 Q. Who's "we" that you referred to in your
12 last answer?
13 A. Myself, Maggie and Andrew.
14 Q. Did you speak with anyone else besides
15 them?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. Did you review any documents in
18 preparation for this deposition?
19 A. I believe I did, yes.
20 Q. What did you review?
21 A. We talked about and I looked at the
22 seating chart that the City Council does, and I
23 looked at that.
24 Q. And did you look at anything else?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

6
1 A. No, I don't recall.

2 Q. What's your job title?
3 A. I'm a sergeant with the Chicago Police
4 Department.
5 Q. Do you have any other job titles?
6 A. No.
7 Q. So you don't work any other jobs or
8 anything like that?
9 A. Okay. Yes, I do work another job.
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10 work security with the White Sox and United Center,

11 it's the same company.
12 Q. Any other jobs?
13 A. No.
14 Q. And referring to your job as a police
15 officer, how did you get that position?
16 A. I applied for the job going back
17 probably 28, 29 years ago, took the test, passed
18 the test and got the job.
19 Q. And where specifically are you stationed
20 right now?
21 A. Okay. I'm assigned to the First
22 District, which is 18th and State Street, and out
23 of the First District, I'm assigned to the City
24 Hall detail, which is like a foot post on the First
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

7
1 District.
2 Q. How is it you ended up assigned to the
3 City Hall detail?
4 A. The spot opened up and they asked me if
5 I would like to give it a try to work at City Hall,
6 and I said sure.
7 Q. So someone came and asked you rather
8 than you seeing a job opening and applying?
9 A. That's correct.
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10 Q. And who came and asked you?

11 A. I believe at the time it was the
12 commander of the First District.
13 Q. And who was the commander of the First
14 District?
15 A. You're testing my memory here. At this
16 point I don't remember his name.
17 Q. Okay. Do you know why he asked you?
18 A. He was familiar with me from the job,
19 and they had an opening for a sergeant at City
20 Hall, so he wanted to put someone in that he was
21 familiar with, that he could trust and would do the
22 job.
23 Q. Were there other people of the similar
24 position and rank of you that he could have offered
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

8
1 it to?
2 MS. SOBOTA: Object to foundation. If you
3 know, you can answer.
4 BY THE WITNESS:
5 A. I don't know.
6 BY MR. BURDAY:
7 Q. Do you consider your job a desirable
8 position, to be assigned to that detail?
9 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form.
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10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. Speaking for myself, I like the job.
12 BY MR. BURDAY:
13 Q. During City Council meetings, where do
14 you work?
15 A. My main function is on the second floor.
16 There are two metal detectors on the second floor.
17 So we make sure that the area is safe by going
18 through bags and having people go through the metal
19 detector.
20 Q. Is there a term you use to refer to the
21 area with the metal detectors, like the entrance or
22 anything like that?
23 A. Just the second floor lobby.
24 Q. Second floor lobby?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

9
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. That's how you refer to the area with
3 the metal detectors and where you search people
4 when they come in?
5 A. Basically, yes.
6 Q. Do you work anywhere else during the
7 City Council meetings? Do you move around at all?
8 A. I do move around, yes.
9 Q. Where else do you go?
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10 A. You could find me in the City Council

11 chambers itself, on the second or the third floor.
12 I'm also -- when I go up to the third floor, I keep
13 an eye on the lobby in the third floor, and that's
14 basically my main function, between the second and
15 third floor. City Council chambers or in the
16 lobbies.
17 Q. What is the third floor lobby?
18 A. It's just the third floor, but sometimes
19 people assemble up there.
20 Q. Are you referring to the third floor
21 gallery where members of the public will sit to -22 A. No, the third floor gallery is the third
23 floor gallery, and then you've got the hallway that
24 sometimes people hang out in if the third floor is
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

10
1 filled up.
2 Q. And that's what you're referring to as
3 the third floor lobby?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Gotcha. And what would make you move to
6 those areas, away from the entrance?
7 A. If there's a crowd or if there's a
8 problem, being the sergeant, I respond there to
9 make sure that the problem or the crowd is -- has
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10 no problems that's gonna affect the City Council

11 meeting.
12 Q. You mentioned problems in your previous
13 answer. What are you referring to?
14 A. Occasionally, City Council meetings
15 brings groups of protesters, we do press
16 conferences, and we try to protect them so that
17 they can do what they've come at the hall, and at
18 the same time we make sure that the City Council
19 meeting doesn't get disturbed, and nobody's -- I
20 guess you could say nobody's rights are violated on
21 both sides.
22 Q. Could you tell me a little bit more
23 about how you go about doing that?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

11
1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. Well, I could just say that the second
3 floor is the main area where the press conferences
4 are held. So during the press conference, I'm
5 usually out there to make sure that if there's an
6 opposing opposition to whatever the press
7 conference is about, that they respect each other
8 and allow them to do their press conference without
9 making noise. In turn, when the next group is
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10 going to do a press conference, the same thing. So

11 that's our main function is to make sure that the
12 City Council chamber is safe, no weapons, no
13 contraband gets in there, and the outside, that
14 everyone's respectful to the issues that are going
15 on because a lot of people come to City Hall with
16 problems, with things they want to get out, you
17 know, to the media, and that's what we try to make
18 sure that they're able to do that.
19 BY MR. BURDAY:
20 Q. What other problems do you encounter
21 with protesters?
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. I don't know what you mean. I mean,
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

12
1 basically, they can be loud, they can be noisy,

2 that's fine. We just make sure that they stay
3 orderly and they stay safe.
4 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 Q. Do you recall the May 18th City Council
6 meeting?
7 A. Yes, I do.
8 Q. And you worked at the entrance during
9 the May 18th City Council meeting?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And do you recall the June 22nd City
12 Council meeting?
13 A. No, I was not there for that meeting.
14 was on furlough.
15 Q. And who fills in for you if you're not
16 there?
17 A. There is a sergeant up on the fifth
18 floor, Sergeant Dwayne Johnson, and he'll fill in
19 for me when I'm not in the building.
20 Q. Did he fill in for you June 22nd?
21 A. Yes, he did.
22 Q. Do you know Andy Thayer?
23 A. Yes, I do.
24 Q. How do you know him?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

13
1 A. He's an activist that has been coming to

2 City Hall as long as I've been there on different
3 issues. So that's how I know him.
4 Q. And what else do you know about him?
6 BY THE WITNESS:
7 A. Not much more than just my experiences
8 with him at City Hall.
9 BY MR. BURDAY:
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10 Q. What have your experiences with him

11 been?
12 A. He comes to City Hall, and he's an
13 activist, so he'll hold press conferences and tries
14 to get out to the media whatever side of the issue
15 he has, and, you know, whatever group he's with, he
16 represents, and that's what he does.
17 Q. And what's your impression of Andy
18 Thayer?
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. He's a -- let's see. What's my
22 impression of Andy Thayer? Nothing out of anything
23 ordinary, you know.
24
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

14
1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. What would be out of the ordinary?
3 A. I guess if somebody committed a crime
4 where I locked them up or did something outrageous
5 like, you know, fought with somebody, you know,
6 something that would force me to take some kind of
7 police action, then I guess I would remember that
8 person, this person could be trouble for us, you
9 know.
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10 Q. So do you know Andy Thayer to be a

11 frequent protestor?
12 A. No, not -- when you say frequent, I
13 can't say how often, but I know him from the times
14 he has come, but he doesn't come to every council
15 meeting.
16 Q. How often would you -- just your best
17 estimate would you say he comes?
18 A. My best estimate, probably once every
19 couple months would be my -- five or six times a
20 year I'll see him at City Hall.
21 Q. And do you know Rick Garcia?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you know of Rick Garcia?
24 A. No, not really. I think he was with
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

15
1 Andy Thayer in the June meeting, I heard.

2 Q. Where did you hear that?
3 A. When I came back from furlough, and I
4 was told about the lawsuit that was pending, and
5 his name came up.
6 Q. Who told you about the lawsuit pending?
7 A. The state's attorneys did.
8 Q. And they were the ones who mentioned his
9 name?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Have you ever met Rick Garcia as far as
12 you know?
13 A. As far as I know, no.
14 Q. And do you know him to be a protestor?
15 A. No, I don't know him.
16 Q. At the May 18th meeting, were there
17 people in line waiting to get in without seat
18 reservations that you recognized?
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. Andy Thayer was in line at some point
22 for that May meeting.
23 BY MR. BURDAY:
24 Q. And what did you think when you saw Andy
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

16
1 Thayer in line?
3 BY THE WITNESS:
4 A. Nothing out of the ordinary.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
6 Q. Did anyone running the line at the
7 June 22nd meeting -- do you know if anyone running
8 the line at the June 22nd meeting recognized
9 anybody waiting in line?
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10 A. Yes, I think several police officers

11 recognized Andy Thayer.
12 Q. How do you know that?
13 A. My best recollection, I believe I was
14 called to the lobby because Andy Thayer was -- he
15 was talking out loud, saying he wants to get into
16 the meeting, why can't he get into the meeting, so
17 I was asked to come to the second floor to talk to
18 him.
19 Q. Are you referring to the May 18th
20 meeting?
21 A. The May 18th meeting, yes.
22 Q. I had actually said the June 22nd, so I
23 wanted to clear that up.
24 A. I'm sorry.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

17
1 Q. That's fine.
2 A. The June 22nd meeting, I wasn't there,
3 and I didn't really get involved in what happened.
4 I knew it was a busy meeting, but until the lawsuit
5 came up, then I got a little bit more information.
6 Q. So just jumping back to when you were
7 called to the lobby at the May 18th meeting, why
8 were you called to the lobby?
9 A. Andy Thayer was yelling that he wanted
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10 to get into the meeting, why can't he get into the

11 meeting.
12 Q. And what did you do?
13 A. Do like I always did. I went over
14 there, introduced myself, and I told him that as
15 soon as I could get seats for him, him and his
16 group, and I asked how many is in his group, and I
17 believe he said about five, maybe six all together,
18 I says, okay, as soon as I can, let me go into the
19 meeting to find out now. I usually check with the
20 sergeant-at-arms, hey, we got six people trying to
21 get into the meeting and I promised them I would
22 get them in, so I'm getting them in.
23 Q. And what time did that happen?
24 A. I want to say maybe about 10:00
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

18
1 o'clock -- no, about 11:00 o'clock. It was about

2 an hour after the meeting opened.
3 Q. And you mentioned the sergeant-at-arms.
4 Who were you referring to?
5 A. Alvin Starks.
6 Q. And you said that you went into the
7 meeting to see if there were seats available?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Is that correct?
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10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Is that how you normally find out if
12 seats are available?
13 A. Yeah, I usually ask the sergeant-at-arms
14 or his staff, hey, can we fit more people in here.
15 Q. And how often do you ask that at a
16 meeting?
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. If there's people on the second floor
20 lobby waiting to get in and watching, at some point
21 during the meeting I flow back and forth to try to
22 get them into the meeting.
23 BY MR. BURDAY:
24 Q. Just your best estimate of how frequent
800.211.DEPO (3376)
YVer1f
JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

19
1 that is?
2 A. If there's people on the second floor, I
3 would say probably every -- I'm guessing here,
4 which I'm not supposed to guess, I think, but maybe
5 about every half hour, 20, 30 minutes.
6 Q. Is that an official policy or practice?
8 BY THE WITNESS:
9 A. No, it's just a practical practice, just
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10 trying to get people into the meeting.

11 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 Q. And do the people working the entrance
13 do that when you are not there?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And did they do that at the June 22nd
16 meeting?
17 A. I believe they do. That's what they do,
18 yes.
19 Q. Do you know that they did that at the
20 June 22nd meeting?
21 A. Well, I wasn't there, but they -- the
22 police officers that are on the second floor are
23 very good, and they try to -- they do their job
24 every council meeting in the same fashion, so yes.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

20
1 Q. So that's how it's normally handled, and

2 you think that's how they handled it at the
3 June 22nd meeting, but you're not certain that's
4 how they handled it?
5 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form, mischaracterizes
6 the witness' testimony.
7 BY THE WITNESS:
8 A. Yeah, I wasn't there, but I would say
9 that's how it was handled, just like every other
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10 meeting, I have no doubt.

11 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 Q. Does anyone ever come out and let you
13 guys know that seats are available?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And who does that?
16 A. Sergeant-at-arms, his staff.
17 Q. And what staff members have come out to
18 tell you that seats were available?
19 A. You've got Curtis, and I apologize, I
20 don't know their last names, but Curtis, you've got
21 Vader, and you've got -- I can't think of his name.
22 I can't think of his name offhand.
23 Q. And a third person?
24 A. Yes.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

21
1 Q. And do you know what their job titles

2 are?
3 A. I believe they're assistant
4 sergeants-at-arms.
5 Q. Is one of them Lamar Brown?
6 A. Yes, Lamar Brown.
7 Q. Was that the third person?
8 A. That was him. Very good. Very good.
9 Thank you.
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10 Q. And one of the names you said, I didn't

11 quite catch it, it sounded like Vada?
12 A. Vader, Vader. That's what I know him
13 as, Vader, yes.
14 Q. And how often do they come out to let
15 you know there are seats available?
16 A. I guess whenever they have seats
17 available and they know there's people waiting to
18 get in, they come out and say, hey, we got seats
19 available, you got anybody waiting? Yep. Bring
20 them in.
21 Q. How often does it happen even that there
22 are City Council meetings that are under way and
23 people are still waiting to get in that don't have
24 seat reservations?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

22

2 BY THE WITNESS:
3 A. Normally, when the meeting opens up, we
4 don't get everybody in there because of the
5 resolutions, but I would say in my opinion normally
6 by 11:00, 11:30 everybody's in the meeting.
7 Q. So about an hour, hour-and-a-half after
8 the meeting starts?
9 A. Yes.
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10 Q. And this is a good time to ask, what's

11 the largest line you've ever seen at a City Council
12 meeting?
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. There was the Wal-Mart issue where
16 Wal-Mart was trying to build a store in the city,
17 and I think that was the busiest. I mean, we had
18 200 people that never got in or were waiting to get
19 in at some point.
20 BY MR. BURDAY:
21 Q. Okay. How frequently do you see lines
22 over 20 people long?
23 A. Twenty people long, every meeting.
24 Q. Over 50 people long?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
YVer1f
JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

23
1 A. I would say almost every meeting.

2 Q. Over 100 people long?
3 A. That would almost take like a big issue
4 when we start getting 100 people wanting to get
5 into the meeting.
6 Q. How often would you say that happens?
7 A. A couple times a year.
8 Q. City Council meetings normally start at
9 10:00 a.m., right?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How do you decide what time to start
12 letting people in that don't have seat
13 reservations?
15 BY THE WITNESS:
16 A. When the sergeant-at-arms opens up the
17 doors.
18 BY MR. BURDAY:
19 Q. What time does the sergeant-at-arms
20 usually open up the doors?
21 A. Usually, after 9:30.
22 Q. So usually after 9:30, that's the time
23 that you start letting people in line in?
24 A. Yes.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

24
1 Q. How many people were in line at the

2 May 18th City Council meeting at 9:00 a.m.?
3 MS. SOBOTA: Object to foundation.
4 BY THE WITNESS:
5 A. I don't recall how many people were in
6 line at 9:00 o'clock.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. How about 9:30?
9 MS. SOBOTA: Same objection.
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10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. Yeah, I don't recall how many people.
12 There were definitely some people waiting to get
13 in.
14 BY MR. BURDAY:
15 Q. Do you remember -- can you estimate
16 roughly at any time about how many people were
17 waiting in line at the May 18th meeting?
18 A. I really don't remember how many people
19 were waiting at that meeting.
20 Q. Same question for the June 22nd meeting,
21 do you know how many people were in line at the
22 June 22nd City Council meeting?
23 A. No, I don't.
24 Q. Do you know whether any members of the
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

25
1 public were told they could not go to the third

2 floor gallery at the June 22nd meeting?
4 BY THE WITNESS:
5 A. No, that would be -- that never happens.
6 Most of the time, when people are waiting in
7 line -- no, sorry. All of the time when people are
8 waiting in line and the second floor has no more
9 seats, we'll make announcements for people, they
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10 can go up and view the City Council meeting on the

11 third floor.
12 BY MR. BURDAY:
13 Q. Did that happen at the June 22nd
14 meeting?
15 A. I wasn't there, but yes, it would be my
16 answer because it's what we do.
17 Q. So that's your standard practice, but
18 you don't know if that actually happened at the
19 June 22nd meeting, is that correct?
20 MS. SOBOTA: Objection, mischaracterizes the
21 witness' testimony.
22 BY THE WITNESS:
23 A. I wasn't there, so I'm trying to be as
24 accurate as I can, but it happens, we do that
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

26
1 every -- standard practice, yes.

2 MR. BURDAY: Let's take a break for a couple
3 minutes.
4 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.)
5 (WHEREUPON, Ms. Miller entered the
6 deposition proceedings.)
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. Back at the beginning you mentioned you
9 were aware there were protestors at the May 18th
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10 City Council meeting, right?

11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you usually keep track of or are you
13 usually aware if there are protestors at the City
14 Council meeting?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. Yes, I'm usually called that there's a
18 group out and -- I don't even know if you call them
19 protesters, but because at the council meeting they
20 do a lot of press conferences, so a group will come
21 out and do a press conference at the back of the
22 lobby, the opposite side of the metal detectors,
23 and usually talk about what issue they're
24 interested in.
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September 21, 2016

27
1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. And you mentioned in your last answer
3 that you get called. Who calls you?
4 A. Police officers. We've got the same
5 radio.
6 Q. Does anyone else call you besides police
7 officers?
8 A. Not really.
9 Q. And do you do anything to make sure
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10 protestors don't disrupt the City Council meetings

11 in progress?
13 BY THE WITNESS:
14 A. Yes.
15 BY MR. BURDAY:
16 Q. What?
17 A. Well, if they're on the second floor, we
18 try to make sure they don't have any megaphones,
19 any drums, something like that. They can scream
20 and yell all they want, that's their constitutional
21 right, to get the expression out for whatever issue
22 they're there for.
23 BY MR. BURDAY:
24 Q. They can scream and yell inside the City
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September 21, 2016

28
1 Council chambers?
2 A. No, in the lobby of the second floor.
3 Inside the City Council chambers, we ask them to be
4 quiet, respectful and view the meeting.
5 Q. Do you ever not let people into the
6 chambers for any reason?
8 BY THE WITNESS:
9 A. No, except for no seats.
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10 MR. BURDAY: I think we're all set.

11 MS. SOBOTA: We'll read and sign.
12 THE COURT REPORTER: Did you want to order
13 this transcript?
14 MR. BURDAY: Yes, please, and I wrote an
15 additional email address on my card.
16 THE COURT REPORTER: Do you guys need a copy?
17 MS. SOBOTA: Yeah, E-tran will be great.
18
19 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITHE NOT.
20
21
22
23
24
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

29
1 I, KAREN A. FAZIO, CSR No. 84-1834, a

2 Notary Public within and for the County of Cook,
3 State of Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand
4 Reporter of said state, do hereby certify:
5
6 That previous to the commencement of the
7 examination of the witness, the witness was duly
8 sworn to testify the whole truth concerning the
9 matters herein;
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10
11 That the foregoing deposition transcript
12 was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter
13 reduced to typewriting under my personal direction
14 and constitutes a true record of the testimony
15 given and the proceedings had;
16
17 That the said deposition was taken
18 before me at the time and place specified;
19
20 That I am not a relative or employee or
21 attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of
22 such attorney or counsel for any of the parties
23 hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in
24 the outcome of this action.
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

30
1 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set my

2 hand of office at Chicago, Illinois, this 27th day
3 of September, 2016.
4
5
6
7
8 Notary Public, Cook County, Illinois.
9 My commission expires 5/10/20
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10
11 KAREN A. FAZIO, CSR No. 84-1834
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

31
1 I N D E X
2 JOSEPH KIPKA EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. BURDAY 3
4
5
6
7
8 NO EXHIBITS WERE MARKED.
9
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10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

32
1 DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET

2
3 J0431841
4 Thayer vs. Chicago City Council
5
6 DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
7
8 I declare under penalty of perjury that I
9 have read the entire transcript of my Deposition
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10 taken in the captioned matter or the same has been

11 read to me, and the same is true and accurate, save
12 and except for changes and/or corrections, if any,
13 as indicated by me on the DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
14 hereof, with the understanding that I offer these
15 changes as if still under oath.
16
17 Signed on the ______ day of
18 ____________, 20___.
19 ______________________________
20 JOSEPH KIPKA
21
22
23
24
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September 21, 2016

33

2 Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
3 __________________________________________________
4 Reason for change:________________________________
6 __________________________________________________
9 __________________________________________________
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12 __________________________________________________
15 __________________________________________________
18 __________________________________________________
21 __________________________________________________
23 SIGNATURE:_______________________DATE:___________
24 JOSEPH KIPKA
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JOSEPH KIPKA
September 21, 2016

34

3 __________________________________________________
6 __________________________________________________
9 __________________________________________________
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12 __________________________________________________
15 __________________________________________________
18 __________________________________________________
21 __________________________________________________
23 SIGNATURE:_______________________DATE:___________
24 JOSEPH KIPKA
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CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 7
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
Exhibit D
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ALVIN STARKS
September
10, 2016
CALENDAR:
07
PAGE 1 of 741
THAYER vs. CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN

3
4 ANDREW THAYER and RICK )
5 GARCIA, )
6 Plaintiffs, )
7 -vs- ) No. 16 CH 09212
9 Defendant. )
10
11 The deposition of ALVIN STARKS, called
12 as a witness for examination, taken pursuant to the
13 provisions of the Code of Civil Procedure and the
14 Rules of the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois
15 pertaining to the taking of depositions for the
16 purpose of discovery, taken before NANCY A.
17 GUIDOLIN, CSR No. 84-2531, a Notary Public within
18 and for the County of DuPage, State of Illinois,
19 and a Certified Shorthand Reporter of said state,
20 at the Third Floor, 311 North Aberdeen, Chicago,
21 Illinois, on the 10th day of September, 2016,
22 commencing at 1:00 p.m.
23
24
Exhibit E
800.211.DEPO (3376)
ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

2
1 PRESENT:
2 LOEVY & LOEVY,
3 (311 North Aberdeen Street, 3rd Floor,
5 312-243-5900), by:
6 MR. JOSHUA BURDAY,
7 joshb@loevy.com,
8 MR. MATTHEW V. TOPIC,
9 matt@loevy.com,
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10 appeared on behalf of the Plaintiffs;

11 ASSISTANT CORPORATION COUNSEL,
12 STATE OF ILLINOIS,
13 (30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 1230,
15 312-742-0260), by:
16 MS. MAGGIE SOBOTA,
17 Maggie.Sobota@cityofchicago.org,
18 MR. ANDREW MINE,
19 Andrew.Mine@cityofchicago.org,
20 appeared on behalf of the Defendant.
21 ALSO PRESENT:
22 MS. KATE MILLER, Summer Associate.
23
24 REPORTED BY: NANCY A. GUIDOLIN, CSR NO. 84-2531.
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

3

2 sworn.)
3 ALVIN STARKS,
6 EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. Could you state and spell your name for
9 the record, please?
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10 A. Alvin, A-l-v-i-n, D. Starks,

11 S-t-a-r-k-s.
12 Q. You understand that you're testifying
13 under oath; correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And nothing is interfering with your
16 ability to give complete and accurate testimony?
17 A. No.
18 Q. You are not under the affect of any
19 substances that could interfere with your ability
20 to give complete and accurate testimony?
21 A. No.
22 Q. And you can take breaks whenever you
23 want to. There's just a couple of ground rules.
24 You can't take a break while a question is pending,
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

4
1 and you can't discuss your testimony with your

2 attorneys now that the deposition is started.
3 So just let me know any time that you
4 want to take a break. All right?
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. And I think that my questions are
7 usually pretty clear, but if they're not, just let
8 me know, and I'll try to rephrase them for you.
9 Okay?
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10 A. Okay.
11 Q. And if you answer a question, is it safe
12 for me to assume that you understood it?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
15 A. No.
16 Q. You understand that you're being deposed
17 in your personal capacity and as a representative
18 of the City of Chicago on the subjects of reserve
19 seating and admitting denying members of the public
20 entry to City Council meetings; right?
21 MS. SOBOTA: I will object to the question.
22 He is not here as a representative of the City. He
23 is here as a representative of the Chicago City
24 Council, the defendant in this case.
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

5
1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. You can answer the question.
3 A. Well, I will yield to my attorney.
4 MS. SOBOTA: You can ask him to rephrase it if
5 you don't understand it; otherwise, you need to
6 answer the question.
7 BY THE WITNESS:
8 A. Rephrase it.
9 BY MR. BURDAY:
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10 Q. Do you understand that you are being

11 deposed in your personal capacity?
12 A. I understand that I'm being deposed as a
13 sergeant-at-arms for the City of Chicago and the
14 City Council.
15 Q. And you understand that you're acting as
16 a representative for the City Council?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did the lawyers give you any facts or
19 information in preparation for your deposition?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Who did you talk to in preparation for
22 your deposition?
23 A. The two attorneys pregnant -- pregnant?
24 You're not pregnant, are you -- present, forgive
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

6
1 me, Andy and Maggie.

2 Q. Did you talk to anyone else?
3 A. Yes. Jeff Levine.
4 Q. Who is Jeff Levine?
5 A. Jeff Levine is an attorney for the City
6 of Chicago.
7 Q. Did you speak with anyone else?
8 A. No.
9 Q. What documents did you review in
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11 A. We reviewed the seating chart and the
12 documents that you all submitted with the
13 allegations about your clients not being seated.
14 Q. Which documents were those?
15 A. Those were the -- what are these
16 documents? In the Circuit Court of Cook County -17 the Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint and the
18 Plaintiffs' Complaint.
19 Q. Did you review any other documents in
21 A. Those are the ones that I remember.
22 Q. Where do you work?
23 A. The City of Chicago, 121 North LaSalle,
24 the 7th floor.
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

7
1 Q. And what is your job title?

2 A. Sergeant-at-arms.
3 Q. Do you have any other job titles?
4 A. No.
5 Q. How long have you held your position as
6 sergeant-of-arms?
7 A. For five years.
8 Q. And what did you do before you worked as
9 sergeant-of-arms?
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10 A. Prior to that position, I was the

11 Midwest area director for the workplace initially
12 with the United Negro College Fund.
13 For a year prior to the UNCF position, I
14 was a legislative aide for Alderman Michelle Harris
15 at the City of Chicago.
16 Prior to that, I was an assistant chief
17 administrative officer for the Bureau of
18 Administration with Cook County for 11 years.
19 Prior to that, I was a commissioned
20 officer in the military, and prior to that I was in
21 college.
22 Q. And could you describe briefly for me
23 your duties as sergeant-at-arms?
24 A. Yes.
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

8
1 Q. Would you do so, please?

2 A. The responsibilities include -3 primarily the main responsibility is security of
4 the Council Chamber, the second and third floor, as
5 well as managing seven personnel, managing office
6 space, information technology, audiovisual
7 equipment, scheduling conference rooms, scheduling
8 the Chamber, collaborating security with the
9 Chicago Police Department. That's a brief
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10 summation of it.
11 Q. How many people work under you?
12 A. Seven.
13 Q. Who is your boss?
14 A. I have 50.
15 Q. And who are those 50?
16 A. The City Council of Chicago.
17 Q. Does Lamar Brown work under you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Is there more than one person named
20 Lamar Brown working under you?
21 A. No.
22 Q. How often do you work at the City
23 Council meetings?
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

9
1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. You may answer.
3 A. I work every day.
4 Q. How often do you work at the Chicago
5 City Council meetings themselves?
6 A. The City Council meets once a month
7 normally.
8 Q. And are you at each of those meetings
9 when they meet once a month?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Have you ever missed a Chicago City
12 Council meeting?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. When was the last time that you missed a
15 Chicago City Council meeting?
16 A. I don't remember.
17 Q. Who fills your role when you miss a
19 A. My staff.
20 Q. Is it one person in particular that
21 fills your role, or is it a variety of people?
22 A. A variety.
23 Q. What percentage of your time would you
24 say that you spend on work related to the City
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September 10, 2016

10
1 Council meetings themselves?

3 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 A. A large percentage.
6 Q. You will hear a number of objections
7 from your lawyers throughout, and unless they
8 specifically tell you not to answer, you can go
9 ahead and answer the question.
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10 MS. SOBOTA: Assuming that you understood it.

11 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 Q. When was the first time that you became
13 aware that there was reserved seating at City
15 A. May 2011.
16 Q. Do you know if reserved seating existed
17 before you started working there?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did it exist before you started working
20 there?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When did reserved seating at Chicago
23 City Council meetings come into existence?
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

11
1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. I don't know.
3 BY MR. BURDAY:
4 Q. How did you become aware that there was
5 reserved seating at Chicago City Council meetings?
6 A. When I took the job, I had to learn what
7 was going on. So there was staff that was there -8 that was held there when I started.
9 So we went through everything, and they
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10 were teaching me how the City Council operates, and

11 what seats are reserved, whom they are reserved
12 for. So it was a learning curve, a learning
13 process.
14 Q. Who did they tell you seats were
15 reserved for?
16 A. They were reserved for some of the
17 external agencies for the City of Chicago. They're
18 reserved for some of the department heads for the
19 City of Chicago and for some of the aldermen.
20 Q. And how did they inform you of the
21 reserved seating? Did they tell you verbally? Was
22 it written documents?
23 A. There was a bit of both. There was a
24 seating chart that was -- that had been used, and,
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

12
1 of course, I had questions about who were the seats

2 reserved for, why are they reserved for them.
3 Q. Were there any other documents about
4 reserved seating besides those seating charts that
5 you just mentioned?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Why is there reserved seating at all?
9 BY MR. BURDAY:
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11 A. What do you mean, "Why is there?"
12 Q. You can just as easily not have reserved
13 seating; correct?
15 BY THE WITNESS:
16 A. Let me pose you a question. Why is
17 there reserved seating in a restaurant?
18 BY MR. BURDAY:
19 Q. I am deposing you. I will be the one
20 asking the questions here.
21 You could also not have reserved
22 seating; correct?
24
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

13
1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. Reserved seated is required.
3 BY MR. BURDAY:
4 Q. What requires reserved seating?
5 A. There are certain individuals, certain
6 people that need to be at every City Council
7 meeting, and they need to have a seat.
8 Q. Who are the people that need to be at
9 the City Council meetings and need to have a seat?
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10 A. The ones that I have previously stated

11 to you. Department heads of the sister agencies;
12 people of that nature.
13 Q. How do people know that they have the
14 option to reserve seating?
16 BY MR. BURDAY:
18 A. These were seats that were reserved when
19 I got there.
20 Q. So you're saying seats were reserved
21 years in advance?
22 A. I'm saying that they were reserved when
23 I got there. When I took the job, seats were
24 reserved.
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

14
1 Q. So seats were reserved for City Council

2 meetings in the past year back when you first took
3 your job?
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. The seats were reserved the day that I
7 took the job. When I got there, these were seats
8 that were reserved and were already in place.
9 BY MR. BURDAY:
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10 Q. So the seats at City Council meetings in

11 2016 were already reserved when you started your
12 job?
13 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. What seats are
14 you referring to?
15 MR. BURDAY: The seats in the City Council
16 Chamber.
17 MS. SOBOTA: All of the seats?
18 MR. BURDAY: The gallery seats.
19 MS. SOBOTA: All of the gallery seats?
20 MR. TOPIC: Can we swear in the lawyer since
21 she is going to be answering questions?
22 MS. SOBOTA: I'm trying to understand the
23 question so I know if I need to object to it.
24
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

15
1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. All of the gallery seats are not
3 reserved.
4 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 Q. You stated that seats were reserved in
6 the gallery when you first took your job.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. They were -- were those seats reserved
9 for all future meetings when you took your job?
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10 A. Every seat in the gallery is not

11 reserved.
12 Q. My question was: The seats that were
13 reserved, were those reserved for every future
14 meeting when you took your job?
15 A. There is ample seating for the public in
16 the gallery.
17 MR. BURDAY: Would you read back the last
18 question, please?
19 (WHEREUPON, the record was read
20 as requested.)
21 BY MR. BURDAY:
22 Q. Would you please answer that question?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you find it odd that seats were
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

16
1 reserved years in advance?

3 BY THE WITNESS:
4 A. No.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
6 Q. You never questioned that seats in the
7 Chicago City Council chamber were reserved years in
8 advance?
9 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. Argumentative.
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10 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 A. I don't find it odd.
13 Q. How do people go about reserving seats
14 at the Chicago City Council meetings?
15 A. They reach out to me, or they reach out
16 to one of my assistants, and they say: Alvin, or
17 whomever they reach out to, we need two seats
18 reserved in the Chamber for a City Council meeting
19 on said date.
20 Q. And when the City Council meetings
21 occur, how do you make sure people sit in the right
22 seats?
23 A. The seats are marked reserved. The
24 seating chart reflects whatever group is going to
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

17
1 be coming in and where they will be located.

2 Q. Besides the seating chart, do you denote
3 which seats are reserved?
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. Restate your question, please.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. Besides the seating chart where you
9 marked the reserved seats, are the reserved seats
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10 in the Chicago City Council Chamber marked or

11 denoted in any other way?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Do officials at City Council meetings
14 ever speak without speaking into a microphone?
15 A. Officials? Define officials.
16 Q. Aldermen, other people of the Chicago
17 City Council meetings, do any of them ever speak
18 without speaking into a microphone?
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. The alderman do not address the Council
22 or the President of the Council unless they are
23 speaking into a microphone when a City Council
24 meeting is in session.
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

18
1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. So people at the City Council meetings
3 do not speak if they're not speaking into a
4 microphone?
5 MS. SOBOTA: Object to the form. That
6 misstates his testimony.
7 BY THE WITNESS:
8 A. The aldermen do not speak unless they
9 are speaking into a microphone and have been
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10 acknowledged and have been given the authority to

11 speak by the president of the Council.
12 BY MR. BURDAY:
13 Q. Has it ever occurred that one of the
14 aldermen spoke without being given authority?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. Not to my knowledge.
18 BY MR. BURDAY:
19 Q. Is there ever a point that you stop
20 taking seat reservations for a City Council
21 meeting?
23 BY MR. BURDAY:
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1 A. Is there ever a point where you stop

2 taking reservations for City Council meetings?
3 When the seating has reached full capacity, yes.
4 Q. What does full capacity mean?
5 A. There are a total of 238 available seats
6 in the Chamber and that is with the third floor and
7 the second floor. Once that seating capacity is
8 reached, no reservations are taken.
9 Q. How many seats are available on the
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10 third floor?
11 A. 99.
12 Q. And how many seats are available on the
13 second floor?
14 A. On the second floor there are a total of
15 213 seats.
16 Q. Do you ever proactively ask if people
17 would like seats reserved for them?
18 A. Pardon me?
19 Q. Do you ever proactively ask if people
20 would like seats available for them at City Council
21 meetings?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Has anyone else before proactively asked
24 if someone would like seats reserved for them at a
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3 BY THE WITNESS:
4 A. I don't know what someone else is doing.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
6 Q. You understand -- you said earlier that
7 you understood that you are testifying as a
8 representative of the Chicago City Council?
9 A. Yes. I understand that.
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10 Q. What do you do to ensure that there are

11 seats for members of the public at Chicago City
13 A. When a City Council meeting takes place,
14 the seating is a first come, first serve basis. Of
15 the seats that are in the City Council, only about
16 44 publicly -- not publicly, but they're assigned
17 for the individuals that I mentioned before.
18 Q. Only 44 seats are reserved? Is that
19 what you meant?
20 A. Yes. 44 seats are reserved.
21 Q. And the rest of the seats are open to
22 the public on a first come, first serve basis?
24
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. Council, you have to refer to the Rules
3 of Order. There is -- I think it's Rule 840 or 49
4 which states that the Mayor and any elected
5 officials if they have guests that are attending
6 City Council meetings, seating must be provided for
7 them.
8 Most times there are ordinances or
9 resolutions that are being presented; for example,
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10 the Police Department for some great works that

11 they have done, when those individuals come, they
12 will have their families with them, they will have
13 their friends with them. Seating has to be
14 provided to them to accommodate them.
15 Once that person receives the blessings
16 of the Mayor or the acknowledgements from the Mayor
17 and the Council, that body of people leave, and the
18 seats are open.
19 Once there seats are open, the public is
20 welcome to come in and sit.
21 BY MR. BURDAY:
22 Q. At Chicago City Council meetings how
23 many seats are generally open to the public?
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. How many are generally open to the
3 public?
4 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. A great deal. A great number of seats
7 are open to the public.
8 Q. Are over half of the seats in the
9 Chicago City Council chambers usually open to the
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10 public?
12 BY THE WITNESS:
13 A. Maybe less, but yes, there is adequate
14 seating for the public. Let me put it this way.
15 After resolutions and all that has been done, the
16 City Council -- the bodies that the seats were
17 reserved for, for, say, a police or a firefighter
18 or you if you did something great, when those seats
19 and those people have been acknowledged, they
20 leave. When they leave, seats open up.
21 At any time after those open up, there
22 is more than enough seating to accommodate the
23 public. I can't ever remember a time when a member
24 of the public wasn't escorted in and seated.
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1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. Has there ever been a time when no
3 members of the public got into a City Council
4 meeting?
5 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form and foundation.
6 Also asked and answered.
7 BY THE WITNESS:
9 BY MR. BURDAY:
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10 Q. Were you ever pressured to reserve seats

11 or make any changes by aldermen?
13 BY THE WITNESS:
14 A. No.
15 BY MR. BURDAY:
16 Q. Have you ever said no to someone
17 requesting a seat reservation?
18 A. Yes, if the seating capacity was to the
19 maximum.
20 Q. What happened when you said no?
21 A. Nothing.
22 Q. Could you describe the third floor
23 gallery, please?
24 A. The third floor gallery, of course, is
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1 on the third floor of 121 North LaSalle, and it has

2 a seating capacity of about 99 seats. When you get
3 off of the elevator, you will be walking north down
4 the corridor to the third floor. There will be a
5 Magnetometer and a police officer there to checkout
6 anyone or to vet people that would be entering
7 there.
8 You come in, and there's a police
9 officer there to show you where seating is. You
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10 are asked to sit there and be quiet, remove your

11 hat.
12 It's like -- it's as if you are coming
13 to my home. I want to make you as happy and as
14 comfortable and as safe as possible.
15 Q. Is the third floor gallery totally open,
16 or is it closed off in any way?
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. No, it's not closed off. It's open.
20 BY MR. BURDAY:
21 Q. So there is no wall between the members
22 and the gallery?
23 A. Oh, yes. There's -- in the gallery on
24 the third floor -- the second floor gallery is here
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1 and the third is here (indicating). There is glass

2 between the second and third level. So yes, but it
3 doesn't prohibit you from seeing anything, it
4 doesn't prohibit you from hearing anything. It's
5 more there for a safety precaution.
6 In the years past, it was my
7 understanding that some people that have sit in the
8 third floor gallery have taken less than honorable
9 means and thrown things down the stairs at the
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10 aldermen.
11 It also prevents someone from committing
12 suicide. They may want to jump off the third tier
13 onto the second tier. So it's there for safety.
14 Q. How are people able to hear through that
15 -16 A. Speakers.
17 Q. -- wall of glass?
18 A. Speakers.
19 MS. SOBOTA: Make sure that you let him finish
20 the question before you answer.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 BY MR. BURDAY:
23 Q. When was the third floor gallery glassed
24 off?
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2 BY THE WITNESS:
3 A. When I got there, it was glassed off.
4 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 Q. Was the third floor gallery glassed off
6 in response to a particular incident?
7 A. I don't know.
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. I don't know.
11 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 Q. Do you have the authority to do away
13 with reserved seating at City Council meetings?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Who does have the authority to do away
16 with reserved seating at City Council meetings?
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. I believe that's above my pay grade.
20 BY MR. BURDAY:
21 Q. What method do people use to reserve
22 seats for City Council meetings besides e-mail?
23 A. E-mail, face-to-face communication, a
24 letter, a phone call.
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1 Q. Any other ways?

2 A. Texts.
3 Q. What percentage of reservations take
4 place by e-mail would you say?
5 A. I don't know.
6 Q. Do more than half of reservations take
7 place by e-mail?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. Is it possible that less than 10 percent
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10 of reservations take place by e-mail?

11 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. Asked and
12 answered. He said that he doesn't know twice. If
13 you know, you can answer.
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. I don't know.
16 MR. BURDAY: Would you mark this, please?
17 (WHEREUPON, a certain document was
18 marked Starks Deposition Exhibit
19 No. 1, for identification, as of
20 9-10-16.)
21 BY MR. BURDAY:
22 Q. I am handing you what has been marked as
23 Exhibit 1. Take a minute and review it, and let me
24 know when you've reviewed it.
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1 A. Okay.
2 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 1 to be a true
3 and correct copy of the Chicago City Council public
4 seating policy?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Who wrote the Chicago City Council
7 public seating policy?
8 A. It was drafted by our attorneys.
9 Q. Did anyone else participate in writing
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10 it?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. Did anyone else participate in writing
13 it?
15 Q. Who has the authority to enact that
16 policy?
17 A. I do.
18 Q. Does anyone else have the authority to
19 enact that policy?
21 BY THE WITNESS:
22 A. I do.
23 BY MR. BURDAY:
24 Q. Does anyone else besides you have the
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1 authority to enact a seating policy on behalf of

2 the Chicago City Council?
3 A. No.
4 Q. How long did it take you to write the
5 City Council public seating policy?
7 BY THE WITNESS:
8 A. I don't know.
9 BY MR. BURDAY:
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10 Q. How long would it take you to enact a

11 new public seating policy?
12 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. Calls for a
13 hypothetical.
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. I don't know.
16 BY MR. BURDAY:
17 Q. Is there any reason that the Chicago
18 City Council public seating policy, Exhibit 1 in
19 front of you, could not have been in place at
20 Chicago City Council meetings prior to August 30,
21 2016?
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. We never had any issues with the seating
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1 arrangements in the City Council. We have never

2 had any complaints about seating arrangements in
3 the City Council.
4 Every person that has come to attend a
5 City Council meeting has been pleasantly greeted.
6 They have been seated. They have been safe, and
7 they have been taken care of.
8 MR. BURDAY: Can you read back the last
9 question, please?
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11 as requested.)
12 BY THE WITNESS:
13 A. I answered it to the best of my ability.
14 BY MR. BURDAY:
15 Q. Would you answer the question that was
16 asked, please?
17 MS. SOBOTA: He just said that he answered it
18 to the best of his ability. If you would like to
19 ask another question, go ahead.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. I answered it.
22 BY MR. BURDAY:
23 Q. I see that you wrote this seating policy
24 shortly after the lawsuit was filed. You changed
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1 the seating policy in response to the lawsuit;

2 right?
3 MS. SOBOTA: Object. That calls for
4 attorney-client privilege information. I am going
5 to instruct you not to answer why the policy was
6 enacted.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. If your attorney had not told you not to
9 answer, would you be able to answer that question?
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11 BY THE WITNESS:
12 A. I am taking the advice of my counsel.
13 BY MR. BURDAY:
14 Q. Your counsel did not instruct you not to
15 answer that second question that I asked you.
16 A. It was leading from the first question
17 that you asked me. You just reworded it.
18 Q. The question was: If your counsel had
19 not instructed you not to answer, would you have
20 been able to answer the question that I asked?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did anyone else besides you and the
23 attorneys that you mentioned, have input into the
24 content of the public seating policy?
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2 BY THE WITNESS:
3 A. I think that I answered that a few
4 minutes ago. I told you who had input into
5 drafting the seating policy.
6 BY MR. BURDAY:
7 Q. Was there a written Chicago City Council
8 public seating policy before the August 30th, 2016,
9 public seating policy?
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10 A. No.
11 Q. Why was that?
13 BY MR. BURDAY:
14 Q. Why was that?
15 A. If you look at the City Council's -- the
16 website for the Chicago City Clerk, it plainly
17 states when the City Council meets, and that it is
18 open to the public.
19 So there was -- I didn't think there was
20 a need to have a public seating policy, and, more
21 specifically, because we have never had an
22 encounter or a situation where members of the
23 public were not able to attend a City Council
24 meeting or not get seated in a City Council
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1 meeting.
2 Q. Directing your attention to No. 2,
3 General Admission, the first sentence, is there a
4 reason that more than 15 seats on the second floor
5 and more than 15 seats on the third floor could not
6 be set aside for general admission?
8 BY THE WITNESS:
9 A. That is the minimum amount that we have
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10 set aside for the public. If you think back to the

11 question that you asked me I guess about the
12 protocol of seating in the City Council, and I was
13 giving you an example of guests that come through
14 the City Council, once those people have been
15 acknowledged and the seats are vacant, the general
16 public is invited into the Chamber.
17 BY MR. BURDAY:
18 Q. Could you set aside 30 seats on the
19 second floor and 30 seats on the third floor for
20 general admission that may not be reserved?
21 MS. SOBOTA: Objection to form. Calls for a
22 hypothetical. Speculation.
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. No.
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1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. Why could you not do that?
3 A. Because 15 seats on the first floor and
4 15 seats on the second floor and 15 seats on the
5 third floor are more than ample, and the
6 probability of guests coming into the Chamber are
7 not going to exceed the amount of available seating
8 that will be there for the public to come in.
9 And if it did, it would not -- the
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10 seating would not be filled for a whole City

11 Council meeting.
12 Q. Are you saying that more than a total of
13 30 people usually do not attend City Council
14 meetings?
15 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. That's not what
16 his testimony was.
17 BY THE WITNESS:
18 A. No.
19 BY MR. BURDAY:
20 Q. Would you clarify your previous answer,
21 please?
22 A. What I'm saying is there is always
23 available seating for the general public to come
24 in.
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1 Q. Directing your attention to the next

2 sentence, why did you include the provision that
3 lines should not form prior to one hour before the
4 scheduled starting time of the City Council
5 meeting?
6 MS. SOBOTA: I will object to that to the
7 extent that it calls for attorney-client privileged
8 information. I instruct you not to discuss
9 anything that we talked about in drafting this
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10 policy as to why provisions were included.

11 BY THE WITNESS:
12 A. I am going to follow the advice of my
13 attorney.
14 BY MR. BURDAY:
15 Q. You can answer the question to the
16 extent that it doesn't call for attorney-client
17 privilege communications.
18 MS. SOBOTA: So if you know anything outside
19 of the conversations that we had.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. I know of no reason to answer your
22 question. I'm just going to listen to my attorney.
23 BY MR. BURDAY:
24 Q. And directing you to the next sentence,
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1 "The sergeant-at-arms reserves the right to seat

2 visitors in the second floor or third floor gallery
3 based on seat availability."
4 What was the reason for the inclusion of
5 that sentence?
6 MS. SOBOTA: It's going to be the same
7 objection. It's attorney-client privilege
8 information. To the extent that you know anything
9 about that outside of the conversations that you
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10 had with the attorneys, you can answer.

11 BY THE WITNESS:
12 A. It's common sense.
13 BY MR. BURDAY:
14 Q. Would you please explain what you mean
15 by "common sense"?
16 A. If you see seats open in the Chamber,
17 and you know that there are people waiting to sit
18 down, you invite them to sit down.
19 Q. Okay. Directing you to the next
20 paragraph, No. 3, Reserved Seats.
21 What happens if someone contacts you to
22 reserve seats outside of the time frame specified?
23 A. If there is no seating available, the
24 council would say no to them. We don't have any
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1 seating available to reserve.

2 Q. If seating was available, would they be
3 able to reserve it outside of that time frame?
4 A. Again, common sense.
5 Q. Is the answer to that question yes?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Why do you reserve the right to limit
8 group size?
9 MS. SOBOTA: Again, I will object to the
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10 extent that it calls for attorney-client

11 information.
12 To the extent that you know anything
13 outside of the conversations with the lawyers, you
14 can answer. If you know anything outside of the
15 conversations with the lawyers, you can answer.
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. No, I don't.
18 BY MR. BURDAY:
19 Q. How will it be ascertained when
20 individuals vacate their seats for the rest of the
22 A. How will what? I didn't understand you.
23 I didn't hear you.
24 Q. When people vacate their seats at the
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1 Chicago City Council meeting for the rest of the

2 meeting, how will you know that they're vacating
3 their seats for the rest of the meeting and not,
4 say, to go to the bathroom or something else?
5 MS. SOBOTA: You are talking about in the
6 future or in the past?
7 MR. BURDAY: In the future.
8 BY THE WITNESS:
9 A. I have three assistant sergeant-at-arms
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10 as well as members of the Chicago Police Department

11 that are in the Chamber. When the group leaves -12 let's go back, again, and say that it's someone
13 that the Mayor has invited in to recognize and to
14 acknowledge. We know that when those people come
15 there, how long they're going to stay, estimated,
16 depending on how the meeting is going, and what
17 time they are going to leave and when the seats are
18 going to become available.
19 Also, there is a common sense approach
20 to things. If an individual leaves and my
21 assistant sergeant-at-arms are in the Chamber, in
22 which they are all of the time, they normally will
23 ask the person, "Are you returning?"
24 If the person says no, they know there
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1 is a seat available.
2 BY MR. BURDAY:
3 Q. Why did you make it optional instead of
4 mandatory that reserved seats will be released if
5 the individuals do not arrive within a half an hour
6 and have not notified you that they are delayed or
7 on their way?
8 MS. SOBOTA: I am going to object to the
9 question to the extent that it calls for
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10 attorney-client information. If you know anything

11 outside of conversations with the attorneys that
12 answers that question, you can answer it.
13 BY THE WITNESS:
14 A. I will yield to my attorney.
15 BY MR. BURDAY:
16 Q. Do you know anything outside of
17 privileged conversations that you can share to
18 answer that question?
19 A. No.
20 MR. BURDAY: Let's take a break for a few
21 minutes.
23 MR. BURDAY: Back on the record.
24 BY MR. BURDAY:
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1 Q. Which lawyers drafted Exhibit 1, the

2 Chicago City Council Public Seating Policy?
3 A. Counsel, you lost me for a second.
4 couldn't hear you.

5 Q. Which lawyers drafted Exhibit 1, the
6 Chicago City Council Public Seating Policy?
7 MS. SOBOTA: Object to foundation. If you
8 know, you can answer.
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. The attorneys that you see present and

11 Jeff Levine, I believe.
12 BY MR. BURDAY:
13 Q. The attorneys drafted the Chicago City
14 Council Public Seating Policy and you signed it;
15 right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. The reason for all of the provisions in
18 the Chicago City Council public seating policy was
19 because of the advice of the attorneys; right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Setting aside any legal issues, is there
22 any practical reason more than 15 seats on the
23 second floor and more than 15 seats on the third
24 floor could not be set aside?
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1 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. It's also been

2 asked and answered. If you have anything to add to
3 your previous answer to that question, you can go
4 ahead.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
7 A. I have nothing more to add to it.
8 Q. Setting aside any legal issues, there's
9 no practical reason this policy could not have been
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10 in place prior to August 30th, 2016; right?

11 MS. SOBOTA: Object to the form.
12 BY THE WITNESS:
13 A. As I stated earlier, we haven't had any
14 problems accommodating the general public to attend
15 City Council meetings.
16 BY MR. BURDAY:
17 Q. There was no opportunity for public
18 comment at the May 18th, 2016, City Council
19 meeting; right?
20 A. The public gets an opportunity to
21 address the City Council during committee meetings.
22 Q. So at the May 18, 2016, City Council
23 meeting, there was no opportunity for the public to
24 comment; right?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And there was no opportunity for the
3 public to comment at the June 22, 2016, City
4 Council meeting; right?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Not allowing public comment was not an
7 isolated incident; right?
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. My responsibility is for the security,

11 the seating. I don't conduct the City Council
12 meetings.
13 BY MR. BURDAY:
14 Q. The question was: Not allowing public
15 comment was not an isolated incident; right?
16 MS. SOBOTA: And I object to form and
17 foundation. He's not here to testify about public
18 comment. He has not been designated for that
19 purpose. If you know, you can answer.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. I don't oversee City Council meetings.
22 That is a question that you would have to pose to
23 the president of the council or to the City Council
24 members.
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1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. Please answer the question that I asked.
3 A. I did.
4 MR. BURDAY: Would you read the question back,
5 please?
7 as requested.)
8 MS. SOBOTA: The same objections.
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. I don't know.
11 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 Q. Public comment was not allowed at City
13 Council meetings besides the May 18th and June
14 22nd, 2016, City Council meetings; right?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. I don't know.
18 BY MR. BURDAY:
19 Q. You understand that other towns allow
20 for public comment at their meetings; right?
22 BY THE WITNESS:
23 A. No, I don't.
24 BY MR. BURDAY:
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1 Q. Do you have any idea why the Chicago

2 City Council does not allow for public comment?
3 A. No.
4 Q. If there was a public policy that
5 members of the public get a certain amount of time
6 to address the City Council, you could implement
7 that in an orderly fashion; right?
8 MS. SOBOTA: Object to found and foundation.
9 Once again, this witness has not been designated to
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10 testify about public comment.

11 BY MR. BURDAY:
13 MS. SOBOTA: Can I please finish my objection,
14 counsel? He hasn't been designated to testify
15 about public comment. He has also testified that
16 he has no role in that with respect to City Council
17 meetings. If you know, you can answer.
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. I couldn't implement that, no.
20 BY MR. BURDAY:
21 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't catch what you
22 said.
23 A. I said that I could not implement that,
24 no.
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1 Q. What time was the May 18, 2016, City

2 Council meeting scheduled to start?
3 A. 10 a.m.
4 Q. Were there reserved seats at the May 18,
5 2016, Chicago City Council meeting?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. How many seats were reserved at that
8 meeting?
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10 Q. In preparation for your deposition, did

11 you do any investigation into that issue?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What investigation did you do?
14 A. I just went over the seating chart to
15 see if additional seating was reserved, and the
16 documents -- or the seating chart that I had didn't
17 reflect the number other than the standard
18 reservations.
19 Q. What number of seats in the gallery,
20 second floor, third floor gallery at the May 18,
21 2016, Chicago City Council meeting were not
22 reserved and available to the public?
23 MS. SOBOTA: Objection. Asked and answered.
24
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
3 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 A. Who?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you know of Andy Thayer?
9 A. Of Andy Thayer? Yes.
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10 Q. What do you know of Andy Thayer?

11 A. That he is a complainant in the lawsuit.
12 Q. Do you know anything else about him?
13 A. No.
14 Q. What time did you first get to work on
15 May 18, 2016?
17 Q. In preparation for your deposition, did
18 you do any investigation into recalling the events
19 of that day?
21 BY THE WITNESS:
22 A. Other than looking at the seating chart,
23 no.
24 BY MR. BURDAY:
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1 Q. Understood. Can you estimate what time

2 that you got to work May 18, 2016?
3 A. Can I estimate what time that I got to
4 work on May 18th? I estimated about 7, 7:30, 8.
5 Q. What did you do when you first got to
6 work?
7 A. I don't remember. Probably went in and
8 unlocked my door.
9 Q. And what did you do next?
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10 A. Let me give you a normal routine of what

11 I do when the City Council meeting takes place.
12 Perhaps this will shorten some of your questions.
13 On the day of a City Council meeting the
14 meetings convene at 10 a.m. I try to get to work
15 at a reasonable time to make sure that all security
16 is in place; i.e., the canine patrol comes through,
17 sweeps the second and third floor, checks all of
18 the facilities, the bathrooms, the Chamber, the
19 hallways to make sure that there is nothing out of
20 sort.
21 I'll check the bathrooms to make sure
22 that they are all clean. I'll check the lighting
23 to make sure no bulbs are blown. We'll check the
24 audio equipment to make sure that all of the
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1 speakers are working.

2 So that's a normal routine for a City
3 Council meeting. I may have a quick meeting with
4 my staff, and say: We're expecting this group to
5 come today. We're expecting this group to come
6 today. These are some of the guests that we have;
7 you know, to make sure that everybody knows who
8 everybody is.
9 If there's an outside official that's
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10 coming in, you know, there are going to be people

11 that are coming in, treat the people as if they're
12 coming to your house. Treat them with courtesy.
13 Treat them with respect. Treat them with dignity.
14 But keep your eyes and ears peeled to make sure
15 that nothing happens while this body is in session.
16 I will have the same conversation with
17 the Chicago Police Department, and they will tell
18 me what individuals or what police officers not by
19 name but by district, where they're coming from,
20 how many are coming.
21 I will advise them on where they should
22 be located, some of the things that they should be
23 looking out for. I will talk to the police
24 officers that are overseeing the Magnetometers to
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1 make sure that you look in every purse, make sure

2 that you look in every duffle bag, make sure that
3 you look at every purse and under every hat. You
4 look in every toilet. You look in every trash can.
5 You check everything as if Barack Obama was coming
6 to town.
7 So that's kind of how a day goes prior
8 to a City Council meeting convening.
9 Q. As far as you know, that's what you did
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10 the morning of May 18th, 2016?

12 BY THE WITNESS:
13 A. Yes.
14 BY MR. BURDAY:
15 Q. Did you e-mail anyone May 18, 2016, in
16 regards to the Chicago City Council meeting?
18 Q. Did you talk on the phone with anyone
19 May 18th, 2016, about the Chicago City Council
20 meeting?
21 A. Did I talk on the phone to anyone on May
22 18th about the City Council meeting? The phone is
23 ringing all day.
24 Q. Is the answer to the question yes?
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1 A. Yes. I'm certain that I did.

2 Q. Who did you speak with on the phone?
4 Q. Did you communicate with anyone
5 regarding the City Council meeting any other ways?
6 MS. SOBOTA: On May 18th in particular?
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. On May 18, 2016.
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10 Q. Did you monitor who was waiting to get

11 into the May 18th, 2016, Chicago City Council
12 meeting?
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. No.
16 BY MR. BURDAY:
17 Q. Did anyone else monitor who was waiting
18 to get into the May 18, 2016, Chicago City Council
19 meeting?
21 BY THE WITNESS:
22 A. Individuals that wanted to -- or groups
23 that wanted to attend the City Council meeting
24 would have followed the following protocol: They
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1 would exit the elevator where they would be greeted

2 by the Chicago Police Department. They would be
3 asked to line up, and they would be vetted by going
4 through the Magnetometer to ensure that they
5 carried nothing that would harm themselves or
6 anyone in the Chamber.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. What was the procedure for letting
9 people into the May 18th, 2016, Chicago City
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10 Council meeting?
11 A. The individuals will come to City Hall,
12 they will get on the elevator, they will take the
13 elevator to the second floor. When they get to the
14 second floor, they are greeted by the Chicago
15 Police Department. They are lined up. They are
16 vetted by going through a Magnetometer and the
17 police physically going through their bags, their
18 duffel bags, their pockets, their coats, or
19 whatever the case may be.
20 At that point they are asked to wait
21 until there is available seating in the Chamber.
22 If seating is available, once they have gone
23 through that vetting process, they're escorted to a
24 seat in the Chamber.
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1 Q. On May 18, 2016, at 10 a.m., how many

2 people were waiting in line to get into the Chicago
3 City Council meeting?
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. I don't know.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. Did you let members of the public into
9 the May 18th, 2016, Chicago City Council meeting at
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10 10 a.m.?
12 BY THE WITNESS:
13 A. I'm sure that we did. Yes.
14 BY MR. BURDAY:
15 Q. What makes you sure that you let people
16 in at 10 a.m.?
17 A. Because if there's seating available at
18 10 a.m., and the people have gone through the
19 vetting process, they are seated.
20 Q. And how do you know that seating was
21 available at 10 a.m. on May 18th, 2016?
22 A. I don't.
23 Q. You just said that you were sure that
24 you let members of the public in at 10 a.m.
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1 A. I don't know how many seats were

2 available. I am certain if there were, people were
3 let into the Chamber. And another reason that I
4 know people were let into the Chamber is because
5 people were sitting there.
6 Q. Is it possible that the people sitting
7 in the Chamber were sitting in reserved seats?
8 A. All things are possible.
9 Q. Is it possible that the only people
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10 sitting in the Chamber at 10 a.m. were sitting in

11 reserved seats?
12 A. All things are possible.
13 Q. There were members of the public waiting
14 in line at 10 a.m. on May 18th, 2016, for the
15 Chicago City Council meeting that you did not let
16 in at 10 a.m.; right?
18 If you know the answer to that, you can go ahead
19 and answer.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. I don't know.
22 BY MR. BURDAY:
23 Q. It was not an isolated incident that
24 members of the public waiting in line did not get
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1 into the May 18, 2016, Chicago City Council

2 meeting; right?
4 If you know, you can answer.
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. I don't know.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. Did you or anyone else offer members of
9 the public waiting in line for the May 18, 2016,
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10 Chicago City Council meeting another way to see or

11 hear the meeting when they were not able to get in
12 at 10 a.m.?
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. If they weren't able to get into the
16 second floor gallery at 10 a.m., I am sure there
17 possibly could be seating available on the third
18 floor.
19 BY MR. BURDAY:
20 Q. If the members of the public waiting in
21 line for the Chicago City Council meeting were
22 unable to get into the second or third floor
23 gallery, did you offer them any way to see or hear
24 the Chicago City Council meeting?
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2 BY THE WITNESS:
3 A. If they were not able to get into the
4 second or third floor as a result of seating
5 capacity being exceeded, they would have had to
6 wait in the lobby until seating became available.
7 BY MR. BURDAY:
8 Q. Did you let any members of the public
9 into the May 18th, 2016, Chicago City Council
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10 meeting between 10 and 10:30 a.m.?

11 A. I don't know.
13 the May 18th, 2016, Chicago City Council meeting
14 between 10:30 and 11 a.m.?
15 A. I don't know. Let me help you out a
16 little bit here, because your questions are
17 repetitive at different time frames.
18 MS. SOBOTA: Let him ask the questions.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay.
20 BY MR. BURDAY:
21 Q. How many seats were reserved on the
22 second floor gallery at the May 18th Chicago City
23 Council meeting?
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. No seats were reserved on the third
3 floor, I don't believe. I don't think there were
4 any seats reserved on the third floor.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
7 second floor gallery?
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. There was a standard 44 seats that are

11 reserved on the second floor -- the second floor
12 gallery and the Chamber.
13 BY MR. BURDAY;
14 Q. Only 44 seats were reserved on the
15 second floor gallery?
16 MS. SOBOTA: Object to form. That wasn't the
17 witness's testimony.
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. Let me perhaps clarify. There is a
20 standard of 44 seats that are reserved. The other
21 seats are reserved, but not permanently.
22 Okay. There are 44 that are permanently
23 set aside. The remaining seats may be reserved for
24 a short period of time. It may be 30 minutes or it
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1 may be 40 minutes, depending on how long the

2 council presides over whatever that situation is
3 that they're acknowledging a guest for.
4 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 Q. At the May 18th Chicago City Council
6 meeting were reserved seats marked off in any way?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. How were those seats marked off?
9 A. They're marked with a sticker or a piece
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10 of paper that's taped to the seat that says,

11 "Reserved," and it will say in most cases the group
12 that it's reserved for.
13 Q. What time was the June 22, 2016, Chicago
14 City Council meeting scheduled to start?
15 A. 10 a.m.
16 Q. Were there reserved seats at the June
17 22, 2016, Chicago City Council meeting?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Was having reserved seats at the June
20 22nd Chicago City Council meeting an isolated
21 incident?
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. Is it an isolated incident?
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1 BY MR. BURDAY:
2 Q. Yes. That's the question.
3 A. There are seats reserved at every City
4 Council meeting. There is a standard 44 seats that
5 are permanently set aside.
6 Q. What time did you get to work on June
7 22, 2016?
8 A. Probably about the same time that I got
9 to work on May 18th.
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10 Q. So you got to work at around roughly

11 7 to 8 a.m.?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you follow the same procedure that
14 you previously outlined at the June 22, 2016,
15 meeting?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. On June 22, 2016, did you e-mail anyone
18 regarding the City Council meeting?
20 Q. In preparation for your deposition
21 today, did you do any investigation into the event
22 of the June 22, 2016, Chicago City Council meeting?
24
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. The same investigations that I just told
3 you about for May 18th. I looked at the seating
4 chart.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
6 Q. You looked at the seating chart, and
7 that was it?
8 A. That was about it. Yes. I didn't do
9 any in-depth investigation to determine the
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10 allegations that your client brought forth were

11 true or not.
12 Q. Did you do any other research or talk to
13 anyone else or anything else at all to find out
14 what happened on June 22nd?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. I have only talked to the attorneys that
18 you see present here.
19 BY MR. BURDAY:
20 Q. Did you talk on the phone with anyone
21 regarding the June 22, 2016, Chicago City Council
22 meeting on June 22nd, 2016?
23 A. What do you mean did I talk to anyone on
24 the phone?
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1 Q. Regarding the meeting that day.

3 Q. Did you communicate with anyone
4 regarding the June 22, 2016, Chicago City Council
5 meeting besides the e-mail and talking on the
6 phone?
8 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 BY MR. BURDAY:
11 Q. Did you or anyone else monitor who was
12 waiting to get into the June 22, 2016, Chicago City
13 Council meeting?
15 BY THE WITNESS:
16 A. No. I didn't monitor who was waiting to
17 get in.
18 BY MR. BURDAY:
19 Q. Did anyone else monitor who was waiting
20 to get into the June 22nd Chicago City Council
21 meeting?
22 A. No. As I stated -23 MS. SOBOTA: Objection to form and foundation.
24
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. As I stated earlier, if you're going to
3 come to a City Council meeting, you come to 121
4 North LaSalle, and you get on an elevator. You
5 come to the second floor. You exit the elevator.
6 You are greeted by the Chicago Police Department.
7 They vet you by checking you out to make sure that
8 you're not carrying any weapons or anything that
9 will harm you or anyone in the Chamber, running
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10 through the Magnetometer, and if there is seating

11 available, you are seated. If not, you wait in the
12 annex. I'm sorry. Not the annex. In the elevator
13 lobby.
14 BY MR. BURDAY:
15 Q. On June 22, 2016, at 10 a.m. how many
16 people were waiting in line to get into the Chicago
19 BY THE WITNESS:
20 A. I don't know.
21 BY MR. BURDAY:
23 the City Council meeting at 10 a.m.?
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. Everyone who comes through there is from
3 the public.
4 BY MR. BURDAY:
5 Q. Did you let people into the meeting -6 the Chicago City Council meeting at 10 a.m. who had
7 not reserved seats?
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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11 BY MR. BURDAY:
12 Q. It was not an isolated incident that
13 members of the public who did not reserve seats did
14 not get into the meeting, the June 22nd meeting at
15 10 a.m.; correct?
17 The witness never testified whether or not people
18 got in at 10 a.m. If you know, you can answer.
19 BY THE WITNESS:
20 A. I don't know.
21 BY MR. BURDAY:
22 Q. Was the third floor gallery open to
23 members of the public who did not reserve seats on
24 June 22nd?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did members of the public who did not
3 reserve seats sit in the third floor gallery on
4 June 22nd?
6 BY THE WITNESS:
8 BY MR. BURDAY:
9 Q. The members of the public who did not
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10 have reserved seating and did not get into the June
11 22nd meeting, did you offer them any other way to
12 see or hear the City Council meeting?
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. I think that I answered the same
16 question for the -- you asked about the May 18th
17 meeting. If seating capacity was exceeded, people
18 would have had to wait in the elevator lobby until
19 seating became available.
20 MR. BURDAY: Could you read the question back,
21 please?
23 as requested.)
24 BY MR. BURDAY:
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1 Q. Would you answer the question, please?

2 MS. SOBOTA: The same objections. The witness
3 already answered the question. If you have
4 anything to add, you can go ahead.
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. I follow the advice of my counsel.
7 have nothing further to add.

8 BY MR. BURDAY:
9 Q. At any time during the June 22nd, 2016,
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10 Chicago City Council meeting, did members of the

11 public who did not have reserved seats get into the
12 meeting?
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. If they did not have reserved seats, did
16 they get into the meeting? If individuals or
17 groups had completed the business that they had
18 there and they left, yes, they were escorted to
19 seats.
20 BY MR. BURDAY:
21 Q. What time did people with reserved seats
22 leave that City Council meeting?
23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Did people with reserved seats at the
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1 June 22nd City Council meeting leave before the

2 meeting was finished?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Were members of the public without
5 reserved seats escorted in at that time?
6 A. Yes.
8 second floor gallery at the June 22nd Chicago City
9 Council meeting?
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10 A. There's a standard 44 seats that are

11 reserved.
12 Q. Only 44 seats were reserved?
13 MS. SOBOTA: Objection. Misstates the
14 witness's testimony.
15 BY THE WITNESS:
16 A. Let me restate it for you.
17 There is permanently 44 seats that are
18 reserved for the City Council meetings. When there
19 are guests of the Mayor or guests of the aldermen
20 or individuals that are being recognized for deeds
21 that they performed above and beyond the call of
22 duty along with their family and friends, seats are
23 reserved for them temporarily.
24 And what I mean by temporarily is those
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1 seats will be occupied by those individuals until

2 the Mayor and City Council have acknowledged those
3 individuals, and each of the aldermen have spoken
4 about those individuals, and those individuals have
5 gone up to the dais and taken a picture with the
6 Mayor. At that point they are escorted out, and
7 the guests, if they bring them with, follow them.
8 BY MR. BURDAY:
9 Q. And how many reservations of the nature
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10 that you've just described were there at the June

11 22nd meeting?
12 A. I don't know.
13 Q. How many reservations of the nature that
14 you've just described were there at the May 18th
15 meeting?
16 A. I don't know.
17 Q. How many seats were reserved at the June
18 22nd meeting on the third floor gallery?
19 A. None. Zero, I believe.
20 Q. Were reserved seats at the June 22nd
21 meeting marked off in any way?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How were they marked off?
24 A. By a sheet of paper or a note pad with
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1 the name of the organization or group on them.

2 MR. BURDAY: Let's take a break.
4 MR. BURDAY: Back on the record.
5 BY MR. BURDAY:
6 Q. At the May 18th Chicago City Council
7 meeting, who worked at the Magnetometer?
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. Members of the Chicago Police

11 Department. The supervisor for those individuals
12 is Sergeant Kipka.
13 BY MR. BURDAY:
14 Q. Do you know of any other individuals who
15 worked at the May 18th meeting by name?
16 A. I can't remember the officers' names,
17 but there were several police officers.
18 Q. Did members of the public waiting in
19 line who did not have reserved seats at the May
20 18th City Council meeting ever ask those people
21 working at the Magnetometer why they could not get
22 in?
24
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. I don't know.
3 BY MR. BURDAY:
4 Q. Who worked the door -- the Magnetometer
5 at the June 22, 2016, Chicago City Council meeting?
6 A. The Chicago Police Department. Sergeant
7 Kipka is the supervisor of those officers.
8 Q. Do you know any of the other officers by
9 name at the June 22nd meeting?
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10 A. No. I don't remember their names.

11 Q. Did members of the public waiting in
12 line who did not have reserved seats and who did
13 not get in ever ask those people why they could not
14 get in?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. I don't know.
18 MR. BURDAY: That's all of my questions.
19 MS. SOBOTA: I think that we are done. We
20 will reserve and sign.
21 (WHEREUPON, the deposition was
22 concluded at 2:35 p.m., this date.)
23
24
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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
2 ) SS:
3 COUNTY OF DU PAGE )
4
5 I, NANCY A. GUIDOLIN, CSR No. 84-2531, a
6 Notary Public within and for the County of DuPage,
7 State of Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand
8 Reporter of said state, do hereby certify:
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12 matters herein;
14 was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter
15 reduced to typewriting under my personal direction
16 and constitutes a true record of the testimony
17 given and the proceedings had;
20 That I am not a relative or employee or
21 attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of
22 such attorney or counsel for any of the parties
23 hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in
24 the outcome of this action.
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2 hand of office at Chicago, Illinois, this 21st day
3 of September, 2016.
4
5
6
7
8 Notary Public,
9 DuPage County, Illinois.
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10
11
12 NANCY A. GUIDOLIN, CSR No. 84-2531
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
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1 I N D E X
2 WITNESS EXAMINATION
3 ALVIN STARKS
4 By Mr. Burday 3
5
6
7
8 E X H I B I T S
9 NUMBER MARKED FOR ID
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10 STARKS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT

11 EXHIBIT NO. 1 27
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24
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

72

2
3
4 Our Assignment No. J0431835
5 Case Caption: Andrew Thayer and Rick Garcia
6 vs. Chicago City Council
7
9 I declare under penalty of perjury that I
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10 have read the entire transcript of my Deposition

17
18 Signed on the _____day of
19 _______________, 2016.
20
21
22 _______________________________
23 ALVIN STARKS
24
800.211.DEPO (3376)
ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

73

2 Page No. ___ Line No. ___ Change to: _____________
3 __________________________________________________
6 __________________________________________________
9 __________________________________________________
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12 __________________________________________________
15 __________________________________________________
18 __________________________________________________
21 __________________________________________________
24 __________________________________________________
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ALVIN STARKS
September 10, 2016

74

3 __________________________________________________
6 __________________________________________________
9 __________________________________________________
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12 __________________________________________________
15 __________________________________________________
18 __________________________________________________
21 __________________________________________________
23 SIGNATURE:____________________________DATE:_______
24 ALVIN STARKS
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 127
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
In the Matter Of:

THAYER and GARCIA vs. CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL
16 CH 9212
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016
Exhibit F
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

1

3
4 ANDREW THAYER and )
5 RICK GARCIA, )
6 Plaintiffs, )
7 vs. ) No. 16 CH 9212
9 Defendant. )
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10
11 The deposition of LAMAR CARL BROWN,
12 called for examination, taken pursuant to the
13 provisions of the Code of Civil Procedure and the
14 Rules of the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois
15 pertaining to the taking of depositions for the
16 purpose of discovery, taken before KRISTIN C.
17 BRAJKOVICH, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,
18 CSR No. 84-3810, of said State, at Suite 300,
19 311 North Aberdeen Street, Chicago, Illinois, on
20 Tuesday, September 20, 2016, at 12:53 p.m.
21
22
23
24
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

2
1 PRESENT:
2
LOEVY & LOEVY,

(311 North Aberdeen Street, 3rd Floor,
Chicago, Illinois 60607,
1-312-243-5900), by:
MR. MATTHEW V. TOPIC,
matt@loevy.com, and
MR. JOSHUA BURDAY,
joshb@loevy.com,
appeared on behalf of the Plaintiffs;
8

9

10

11

12

13

14
CITY OF CHICAGO,
DEPARTMENT OF LAW,
(30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 1230,
Chicago, Illinois 60602,
1-312-742-0260), by:
MS. MAGGIE SOBOTA,
maggie.sobota@cityofchicago.org,
MR. ANDREW S. MINE,
amine@cityofchicago.org, and
MS. TARA KENNEDY,
tara.kennedy@cityofchicago.org,
appeared on behalf of the Defendant.
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3

4

5

6

7
15
ALSO PRESENT:
16 MS. KATE MILLER, Loevy & Loevy, Law Student.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 REPORTED BY: KRISTIN C. BRAJKOVICH,
24 CSR No. 84-3810.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

3

2 sworn.)
3 LAMAR CARL BROWN,
6 EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. TOPIC:
8 Q. Would you state your name and spell it,
9 please?
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PAGE 4 of 127
10 A. Lamar Carl Brown, L-a-m-a-r, C-a-r-l,

11 B-r-o-w-n.
12 Q. And have you been deposed before,
13 Mr. Brown?
14 A. I have not.
15 Q. You understand that you are testifying
16 under oath, correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You understand that you have to give
19 accurate and complete answers?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Is there anything interfering with your
22 ability to give accurate and complete answers
23 today?
24 A. No.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

4
1 Q. You are not on any medication that

2 interferes with your memory or something like that?
3 A. No.
4 Q. I think my questions are usually pretty
5 clear, but if you don't understand a question, then
6 please just let me know and I'll try to clarify it.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. And if you answer a question, is it safe
9 for me to assume that you understood my question?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. I'm also not going to ask you to
12 speculate. If you don't know the answer to the
13 question, then you can just tell me that you don't
14 know the answer to the question. Do you
15 understand?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Where do you work?
18 A. I work at City Hall for the City
19 Council.
20 Q. What is your job title?
21 A. Assistant sergeant-at-arms.
22 Q. And how long have you held that job?
23 A. Three years.
24 Q. Is that a full-time job?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

5
1 A. It is.
2 Q. Do you hold any other jobs in addition
3 to being the assistant sergeant-at-arms?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Have you ever worked for any alderman?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Which alderman?
8 A. Alderman Michelle Harris.
9 Q. And when did you work for Alderman
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10 Harris?
11 A. Same time as I have been appointed to
12 the City Council, three years.
13 Q. So I think you said the only job that
14 you have is assistant sergeant-at-arms, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. In what capacity do you work for
17 Alderman Harris?
18 A. She's the chairman of the Rules and
19 Ethics Committee, so the sergeant-at-arms' office
20 is under the Rules and Ethics Committee.
21 Q. Would it be accurate to say that
22 Alderman Harris is the alderman who has oversight
23 over your job as assistant sergeant-at-arms?
24 A. Yes.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
YVer1f
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

6
1 Q. Is she your supervisor, or is there

2 someone else who is your supervisor?
3 A. There is someone else who is my
4 supervisor.
5 Q. Who is that?
6 A. Alvin Starks.
7 Q. And does Mr. Starks -- is his job, to
8 the best of your knowledge, under the oversight of
9 Alderman Harris?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How did you get your job as assistant
12 sergeant-at-arms?
13 A. I was appointed in 2013.
14 Q. And who appointed you?
15 A. City Council.
16 Q. Did someone nominate you, or how was it
17 that you came to be appointed?
18 A. Michelle Harris nominated me.
19 Q. At that time had you been doing other
20 work for Alderman Harris?
21 A. I had not.
22 Q. So how did it come to be that Alderman
23 Harris moved to appoint you to the position of
24 assistant sergeant-at-arms?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

7
1 A. I was -- I volunteered from time to

2 time. And I recently moved back from Charlotte and
3 was a volunteer, and she gave me the opportunity.
4 Q. For whom were you a volunteer in the
5 context of your last answer?
6 A. Michelle Harris.
7 Q. And you are also a law student; is that
8 correct?
9 A. Correct.
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10 Q. And what year are you in law school?

11 A. Technically, a 1L-2, so I'm a part-time
12 law student, so second year of four.
13 Q. Do you go to law school in the evening
14 and your day job is assistant sergeant-at-arms?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Does the City pay for you to go to law
17 school?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Did you do anything to prepare for your
20 deposition today?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you meet with anyone in preparing
23 for your deposition?
24 A. Yes.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
YVer1f
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

8
1 Q. Who did you meet with?

2 A. The law department.
3 Q. Okay. How long did you meet with the
4 law department to prepare for your deposition?
5 A. Probably 30, 40 minutes.
6 Q. And did that happen today?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Could you tell me when you met with the
9 law department?
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10 A. Yesterday.
11 Q. Was anyone else present when you met
12 with the law department?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Or just lawyers?
15 A. Just lawyers.
16 Q. You and lawyers from the law department;
17 is that correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Okay. Did you review any documents in
20 preparing for your deposition?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did any of those documents refresh your
23 memory about any events related to this case or
24 otherwise?
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

9
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Which documents are those?
3 A. The answer.
4 Q. Okay. The answer to the complaint?
5 A. I think it was the answer.
6 Q. Are you talking about a court filing
7 that the City made in response to the complaint?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Any other documents?
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10 A. The affidavit, my sworn affidavit.

11 Q. Anything else?
12 A. No.
13 Q. And did you talk about prior depositions
14 or what other people testified about?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Could you explain what your job duties
17 are as assistant sergeant-at-arms?
18 A. To ensure that the rules of order and
19 procedure, pursuant to the City Council, are being
20 followed by aldermen, general public, staffers,
21 et cetera.
22 Q. And could you tell me a little more
23 details about the kinds of activities that you
24 engage in to perform that duty?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
YVer1f
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

10
1 A. We do everything from organize meetings,

2 schedule press conferences, work with the Mayor's
3 Office in advance of City Council meetings to make
4 sure seating is okay in advance of the Council.
5 Q. You work with the Mayor's Office to
6 ensure that seating is okay at City Council
7 meetings?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. How do you work with the Mayor's Office
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10 to ensure that seating is okay at City Council

11 meetings?
12 A. Just one meeting before City Council.
13 We meet just to go over groups that have requested
14 to come to City Council.
15 Q. And when you say -- when you said
16 "okay," in the context your last answer, to make
17 sure that things were okay for the City Council
18 meeting, what did you mean by that?
19 A. Just that all of the groups -- we are
20 all on the same page as far as groups that have
21 requested to come to City Council.
22 Q. And in the context of those meetings
23 that you just described in your last answer, were
24 there ever any discussions about ensuring that
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

11
1 people waiting in line could get into City Council

2 meetings?
4 MR. TOPIC: What is the objection to form?
5 What was wrong with my question?
6 MS. SOBOTA: I don't understand your question,
7 so I objected to form. It was vague. If you
8 understand it, you can answer.
9 BY THE WITNESS:
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10 A. Can you restate the question in a

11 different manner, please?
12 BY MR. TOPIC:
13 Q. Sure. And I'll just reiterate what I
14 said upfront. You can always ask me if you don't
15 understand a question. Okay?
16 A. Sure.
17 Q. You gave some testimony about meetings
18 in which you worked with the Mayor's Office to
19 ensure that everything went okay at City Council
20 meetings, right?
21 A. Sure.
22 Q. In the context of those meetings, have
23 you ever had any discussions with the Mayor's
24 Office or anyone else about ensuring that people
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

12
1 waiting in line to get into City Council meetings

2 are able to get seats?
3 A. No.
4 Q. What are your duties the day of a City
5 Council meeting?
6 A. Preparation, prepare the chamber, make
7 sure dogs have swept the chamber, make sure radios
8 are active for communication between the
9 sergeant-at-arms, make sure that press conferences
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10 are scheduled and set up or requested press

11 conferences are ready. Pass out documents,
12 resolutions and other things.
13 Q. Do you ever work at the entrance to the
14 City Council chambers on the day of the City
15 Council meeting?
16 A. Yes.
18 MR. TOPIC: Same thing. Could you tell me the
19 form problem so I can fix the question?
20 MS. SOBOTA: I don't know what you mean by
21 "entrance."
22 BY MR. TOPIC:
23 Q. Do you know what the word "entrance"
24 means, sir?
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

13
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you understand what I meant when I
3 said "entrance to the City Council chambers," when
4 I asked that question?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Again, I'll just reiterate, you are free
7 to tell me if you don't understand something in my
8 question. Okay?
9 A. Sure.
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10 Q. So let me back up.

11 Am I correct that one of your job duties
12 includes working at the entrance to the City
13 Council chambers the day of City Council meetings?
14 A. On the second floor?
15 Q. Are there -- let me back up then.
16 Is there more than one entrance to the
17 City Council chambers?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How many entrances are there?
20 A. There's a third floor front entrance and
21 a second floor front entrance.
22 Q. Is there a common point that someone has
23 to go past to get to either the second or the third
24 floor entrance?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

14
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And is a City employee stationed at that
3 point that I just described in my last question?
4 A. Police are stationed at that point.
5 Q. So if someone wants to get to either the
6 second or the third floor entrance to the City
7 Council chambers, they have to pass through a
8 common point that is staffed by the Chicago Police
9 Department; is that correct?
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10 MS. SOBOTA: I am going to object -- are you

11 saying there's one point -12 MR. TOPIC: I am not interested in your
13 question.
14 MS. SOBOTA: -- and from there you go to 2 and
15 3?
16 BY MR. TOPIC:
17 Q. Did you understand my question?
18 MS. SOBOTA: I object to form.
19 BY MR. TOPIC:
21 A. Can you restate the question, please?
22 Q. Okay. Am I correct that if I'm going to
23 go to either the second or the third floor entrance
24 to the City Council chamber, there's some point
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

15
1 that I have to pass through and that point is

2 staffed by a Chicago Police Department officer at a
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. It's not -- so it's the elevator lobby
7 where it's general practice to screen folks just
8 for safety measure before they enter into the City
9 Council chambers.
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10 BY MR. TOPIC:
11 Q. Where is that elevator lobby located?
12 Is that on the second floor?
13 A. It is.
14 Q. And if someone wanted to go to the third
15 floor chamber of the City Council chamber, do they
16 have to pass through that elevator lobby, or can
17 they go a different way?
18 A. They would have to pass through the
19 elevator lobby.
20 Q. And if they were going to go from the
21 elevator lobby to the third floor entrance, do they
22 pass any kind of security station?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And where is that located?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

16
1 A. On the second floor.

2 Q. Do you have a name for that station -- I
3 call it a security station, but do you have a name
4 for that so we can just refer to it?
5 A. I don't have a name for it. I'm sorry.
6 It's a general entry point where the magnetometers
7 are stationed.
8 Q. Okay. Why don't I call that the entry
9 point.
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10 A. Entry point.
11 Q. Okay? And I'll call it the entry point,
12 and if ever you are confused about what I'm talking
13 about, just let me know, but I think that will be
14 easier.
15 Are you ever stationed at the entry
16 point for a City Council meeting?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Who is stationed at the entry point?
20 BY MR. TOPIC:
21 Q. Remember earlier I said if you did not
22 know the answer to a question, you could just tell
23 me that?
24 A. Sure.
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

17
1 Q. So when your counsel says, Object to

2 foundation, what she's trying to tell you is that
3 you don't know the answer, but you can tell me -4 MS. SOBOTA: I'm not trying to tell him
5 anything. I'm trying to object to your question.
6 BY MR. TOPIC:
7 Q. Who is stationed at the entry point for
8 a City Council meeting?
9 A. Chicago police officers.
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10 Q. And do you ever have occasion to visit

11 the entry point the day of the City Council
12 meeting?
13 A. Yes, just to check press conferences.
14 Q. Okay. Has anyone ever asked you
15 personally why they could not get into a City
16 Council meeting when they were waiting in line?
18 Q. Where are you stationed -- let's start
19 an hour before a City Council meeting begins,
20 where -- is there a place where you typically are
21 stationed at that time?
22 A. Within the second floor or main floor
23 City Council chamber.
24 Q. Within the chamber, so beyond the
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

18
1 entrance and inside of the chamber?

2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Are you ever in the elevator lobby in
4 the hour leading up to the City Council meeting?
5 A. Rarely am I in the elevator lobby in
6 advance of the City Council meeting.
7 Q. How about -- well, let me back up.
8 Do the City Council meetings typically
9 start at 10:00 a.m.?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And where are you typically stationed at
12 10:00 a.m. the day of a City Council meeting?
13 A. In the chamber, the second floor
14 chamber, main floor.
15 Q. And do you typically remain in the main
16 chamber throughout the entirety of the City Council
17 meeting?
18 A. Typically, yes.
19 Q. Do you recall the May 2016 City Council
20 meeting?
21 A. I do not. We have a ton of groups come
22 through. I don't.
23 Q. Do you know whether during the May 2016
24 City Council meeting, at any point between
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

19
1 9:00 a.m. and the end of the meeting, were you

2 anywhere other than the City Council chamber?
4 Q. And how about in the -- during the June
5 City Council meeting, do you remember that meeting?
7 Q. Do you remember where you were stationed
8 during the June 2016 City Council meeting?
9 A. Yes.
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10 Q. Where were you stationed?

11 A. Within the City Council chamber on the
12 main floor.
13 Q. And at the June 2016 meeting, were you
14 ever anywhere other than in the main Council
15 chamber?
16 A. Not that I remember.
17 Q. Do you use e-mail in connection with
18 your job?
19 A. I do.
20 Q. How do you organize your e-mail? Let me
21 back up.
22 Do you organize your e-mail in any way?
23 Do you use folders, for example?
24 A. I don't have any -- I don't have any
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

20
1 special folders to my knowledge.

2 Q. What is your practice for retaining
3 e-mails? Do you keep them for a long time? Do you
4 typically delete them? Does it depend?
5 A. I don't have a practice for retaining
6 e-mail. I check e-mail, and they are just
7 typically stored in the inbox.
8 Q. Do you have any electronic documents
9 that you store on a computer?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Could you tell me what kinds of
12 documents you store on a computer?
13 MS. SOBOTA: Are you asking in connection with
14 his job duties?
15 BY MR. TOPIC:
16 Q. All of my questions will be in
17 connection with your work for the City of Chicago,
18 not anything separate than that.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. Do you store any electronic documents in
21 connection with your job?
22 A. Could you specify as to what kind of
23 documents?
24 Q. You use a computer for your job, right?
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

21
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you ever store documents in, like,
3 the My Documents folder or someplace like that on
4 your computer?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you have your documents on your
7 computer organized into folders?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you have folders organized by
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10 specific meetings?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And what documents do you commonly keep
13 in folders that are organized by meetings?
14 A. Are you saying "meetings" or "meanings"?
15 Q. I said meetings, as in City Council
16 meetings.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. Let's back up. When I asked you a
19 question earlier about whether you have folders
20 based on meetings, did you understand me to mean
21 City Council meetings?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. So you have documents stored on your
24 computer that are organized at least in part by
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

22
1 particular City Council meetings; is that correct?

2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So do you have a folder for the May 2016
5 A. If it's included in the general folder
6 that I keep seating charts in, then yes.
7 Q. What is the folder you were referencing
8 in your last e-mail -- sorry -- in your last
9 answer? Could you explain what you meant?
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10 A. I'm sorry. Could you restate the

11 question?
12 Q. Sure. So do you have a folder -- let me
13 back up again.
14 When I say "folder," I might mean a
15 subfolder within some other folder.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. Do you have a folder for every City
18 Council meeting that you have worked at?
19 A. Yes. I believe so, yes.
20 Q. So you have a folder on your computer
21 for the May 2016 City Council meeting, correct?
22 A. Can you clarify?
23 Q. What was not clear?
24 A. So what I don't understand is, you are
800.211.DEPO (3376)
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

23
1 asking me do I have a folder specifically for the

2 May 2016 City Council meeting.
3 There's not a folder specifically
4 dedicated just for that meeting. If there is a
5 folder or if there is a document that is named or
6 termed May 2016 City Council meeting, it is within
7 a general folder with other documents of other City
8 Council meetings. There's not one folder
9 completely dedicated to that one City Council
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10 meeting.
11 Q. I understand. Thank you. What is the
12 name of the folder that you referenced in your last
13 answer?
14 A. Seating charts, I believe.
15 Q. And at any time did you gather documents
16 from that folder and provide them to the lawyers
17 for the City?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When did you do that?
20 A. I can't remember an exact date but some
21 time ago.
22 Q. Did you provide the entire contents of
23 that folder or only some of the documents of the
24 folder?
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

24
1 A. I believe I only provided some documents

2 of the folder.
3 Q. Which documents did you provide? Either
4 specifically identify them or categorize them if
5 you need to.
6 A. Just seating charts from a span
7 through -- over a span of several months.
8 Q. Was there anything else from that folder
9 that you provided to the lawyers from the City?
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11 Q. Other than the seating charts that you
12 mentioned, are there any other documents in your
13 seating chart folder that pertain to the May or
14 June 2016 City Council meetings?
15 A. Specifically in my folder?
16 Q. Or I mean anywhere on your computer.
17 Are there any -- let me back way up for a second.
18 Are there any documents that you
19 provided to the lawyers for the City other than the
20 seating charts that you mentioned in your prior
21 answer?
22 MS. SOBOTA: From his computer?
23 BY MR. TOPIC:
24 Q. From your -- well, at all?
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LAMAR CARL BROWN

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25
1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you have any other documents other
3 than -- and that might be -- I may now mean paper
4 documents or electronic documents that relate to
5 the May or June 2016 City Council meetings?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Could you identify those documents as
8 best you can?
9 A. To the best of my knowledge, there were
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10 a few photo line documents that I provided.

11 Q. I'm sorry. You said photo line
12 documents?
13 A. Photo line, yes.
14 Q. Does that mean people who were in line
15 to take pictures with the mayor at the City
16 Council?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Those are documents that you have
19 related to the May or June meeting that you did or
20 did not provide to lawyers for the City?
21 A. I did provide.
22 Q. Okay. Are there any documents related
23 to the May or June 2016 City Council meeting that
24 you have that you did not provide to the lawyers
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1 for the City?

3 Q. Has anyone ever complained to you
4 personally that they were not able to get into a
5 City Council meeting when they were waiting in
6 line?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Has anyone ever complained to you
9 personally about the way seats are allocated at a
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11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Could you describe those
13 circumstances for me?
14 A. Just that there were reserved seats.
15 People had questions about why seats were reserved.
16 Q. Who were those people that had
17 questions?
18 A. Members of the public.
19 Q. And when was that?
21 Q. Do you know whether it was the May or
22 June 2016 City Council meetings?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Any other circumstances in which people
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1 were discussing with you the seating policies for

2 the City Council meetings?
3 A. No.
4 Q. How many total seats are there on the
5 second floor of the City Council chamber?
6 A. 213.
7 Q. How many total seats are there on the
8 third floor?
9 A. 99.
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10 Q. Of the 213 seats in the second floor

11 chamber, did you include with that number seats for
12 the aldermen themselves or just general public
13 seats? What was included in your total of 213?
14 A. These are just seats for the general
15 public.
16 Q. Is there a certain number of those 213
17 seats that are reserved every month for City
18 employees?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How many seats are those?
21 A. Oh, I'm sorry. Can I go back?
22 Q. Yes, please.
23 A. So I misunderstood the question.
24 The seats that are reserved are not for
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1 City employees. They are for committee chairs or

2 the aldermen for permanent seating.
3 Q. You said permitted [sic] seating. Is
4 that a term that you use in the course of your job
5 when talking about seating in the City Council
6 meeting?
7 A. Could you clarify the question or
8 restate the question?
9 Q. You said permitted seating. I'm just
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10 trying to understand, is that sort of common

11 language that you use? Do you typically refer to
12 certain seats that way, as permitted seating?
13 A. Would you like me to refer to them as
14 standing seating arrangements?
15 Q. No, I don't care how you refer to them.
16 I just want to know how you normally refer to them,
17 so I can talk in your language, instead of you
18 trying to talk in my language.
19 A. I would prefer standing seating
20 reservations.
21 Q. Okay. How many standing seating
22 reservations are there for City Council meetings?
23 A. 44.
24 Q. And when you gave me a number of 213
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1 seats, did that include within that total the

2 standing seating reservations?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. For the remaining seats other than the
5 standing seating reservations -- let me actually
6 back up for one second.
7 Are there any standing seating
8 reservations on the third floor gallery?
9 A. No.
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10 Q. Let me hand you what I'm marking as

11 Exhibit 1. The Bates number got cut off, but it's
12 titled Chicago City Council - Public Seating
13 Policy. It's signed August 30, 2016.
15 marked Deposition Exhibit No. 1, for
16 identification by counsel.)
17 BY MR. TOPIC:
18 Q. Just go ahead and take a second and -19 take whatever time you need to take a look at the
20 document, and I'll have some questions for you.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. Have you seen this document before?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. When was the first time you saw this
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1 document?
2 A. Perhaps a few weeks ago.
3 Q. The document that you saw, was it signed
4 and dated at the bottom?
6 Q. Did you ever see a different version of
7 this document?
8 A. No, not that I can remember.
9 Q. Were you ever asked to comment about
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10 this document?
11 A. Can you clarify?
12 Q. Did anyone ask you for any comments
13 about this document or about this policy?
14 A. No.
15 Q. To the best of your knowledge, did you
16 have any input into this policy which is Exhibit 1?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you know who did have input into
19 Exhibit 1?
20 A. I would assume Sergeant-at-Arms Alvin
21 Starks.
22 Q. No need to assume. If you don't know,
23 you can just tell me that you don't know.
24 Was there anyone that you know was
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1 involved in creating this document?

2 A. Alvin Starks.
3 Q. How do you know that Mr. Starks was
4 involved in creating this document?
5 A. He's the sergeant-at-arms for the City
6 Council.
7 Q. Do you know that he was involved in
8 creating this document, or are you assuming he was
9 involved because of his job?
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10 A. I am assuming.
11 Q. You don't know whether Mr. Starks had
12 any input into this document, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And is there anyone that you are aware
15 of who you know had input into this document?
16 A. Not that I know of.
17 Q. Based on -- I'm going to ask you some
18 questions, and I understand that you might not be
19 involved in every aspect of what this policy
20 covers. So my questions are going to be about what
21 you do have involvement in, so you should consider
22 every question with that in mind.
23 Could you identify for me everything in
24 Exhibit No. 1 that is different from the policy or
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1 practices with regard to public seating at City

2 Council meetings for the May or June 2016 meetings?
3 A. Could you repeat the question?
4 Q. Could you identify for me, based on your
5 experience, everything in Exhibit 1 that is
6 different from the public seating policies or
7 practices at the May or June 2016 City Council
8 meetings?
9 A. "Fifteen seats on the second floor and
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10 fifteen seats on the third floor shall be set aside

11 for general admission and may not be reserved."
12 Q. For the May 2016 meeting, were any seats
13 in the second or third floor gallery set aside for
14 people who did not have reservations?
16 Q. And same thing for the June meeting?
17 A. No, not to my knowledge.
18 Q. You are involved in the seat reservation
19 process, correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Are you the person who primarily
22 coordinates seat reservations?
24
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1 BY MR. TOPIC:
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. Are you the person who is
5 primarily responsible for coordinating seat
6 reservations at City Council meetings?
7 A. Does that include sole responsibility or
8 shared responsibility?
9 Q. Either way. So are you -- let me ask it
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10 this way. Which person is most responsible for

11 coordinating seat reservations for City Council
12 meetings?
13 A. I receive most requests for seating
14 reservations for City Council meetings.
15 Q. And who makes the decision whether to
16 grant a seat reservation or not? Actually, time
17 out. Let me back up. Let's talk about the time
18 period for just the May and the June meetings.
19 Okay?
20 A. Uh-huh.
21 Q. So forget about the policy that has
22 changed, but as of the May and June meetings.
23 A. Sure.
24 Q. If ever you need to delineate between
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1 one versus the other, then just let me know that.

2 A. Sure.
3 Q. So for the May and June 2016 City
4 Council meetings, who makes the decisions or who
5 made the decisions about whether to grant a seat
6 reservation?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. Okay. And how about in the earlier
9 portion of 2016, leading up to June, were you the
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10 person who made the decision whether to grant or

11 reserve a seat or not for a City Council meeting?
12 A. I would like to clarify before I move
13 forward. There's not a decision whether to grant
14 or deny. Again, I stated that the policy is on a
15 first-come first-served basis. Even without this
16 policy, the seating is still on a first-come
17 first-served basis. So it's not a question of my
18 discretion in denying. It is just if you get the
19 reservation in in time.
20 Q. So at the time of the May and June 2016
21 City Council meetings, was it the policy or
22 practice that seat reservations were granted on a
23 first-come first-served basis?
24 A. Correct.
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1 Q. Were there ever any exceptions to the

2 first-come first-served policy for seat
3 reservations at the May or June meetings?
4 A. Can you repeat the question? I'm sorry.
5 I sort of gazed off.
6 Q. No problem.
7 At the May or June 2016 City Council
8 meetings, were there any exceptions to the
9 first-come first-served policy for seat
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10 reservations?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And how about the earlier portion of
13 2016, from January through April, was it the policy
14 that -- of the City Council that seat reservations
15 were granted on a first-come first-served basis?
16 A. No.
17 Q. That was not the policy?
18 A. Was it -- I'm sorry. Can you repeat the
19 question?
20 Q. Yeah. Let me try to rephrase it.
21 From January through April of 2016, for
22 Chicago City Council meetings -23 A. Sure.
24 Q. -- was the policy for seat reservations
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1 first-come first-served?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And from January through April of 2016,
4 were there any exceptions that you are aware of to
5 the first-come first-served policy for seat
6 reservations?
7 A. No.
8 Q. How about at all throughout the course
9 of your time in your job as assistant
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10 sergeant-at-arms, has the policy always been

11 first-come first-served for seat reservations?
12 A. Yes, it's been standard practice.
13 Q. Well, you said -- are you using
14 "standard practice" and "policy" sort of as
15 interchangeable terms?
16 A. Yeah. Just how I do my job, yes,
17 it's -- yeah.
18 Q. This is a good time for this question.
19 Prior to Exhibit 1 was there a written public
20 seating policy that applied to Chicago City Council
21 meetings?
22 A. No.
23 Q. So how did you know what the policy was
24 for seat reservations, for example, prior to this
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1 policy?
2 A. Just trained by my predecessor.
3 Q. And the policy throughout your entire
4 tenure leading up to the time when Exhibit 1 was
5 initiated was -- and continuing, I guess, was
6 first-come first-served for seat reservations,
7 correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And are you aware of any exceptions at
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10 all from your time as the assistant

11 sergeant-at-arms in which there was an exception
12 made to the first-come first-served policy for seat
13 reservations?
14 A. I am not aware.
15 Q. And let's go back to Exhibit No. 1. We
16 were talking about any differences between
17 Exhibit 1 and what the policy was prior to
18 Exhibit 1 taking effect, and you mentioned the
19 15 seats being set aside for people without
20 reservations.
21 Could you identify anything else that is
22 different between Exhibit 1 and the policy before
23 Exhibit 1 took effect?
24 A. "No more than two weeks and no less than
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1 48 hours before the scheduled meeting."

2 Q. Anything else?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Just looking at Exhibit 1 and just
5 limited to your job duties -- I'm not asking you to
6 speculate about other people's job duties that
7 might be impacted -- could you, as a practical
8 matter, have implemented Exhibit 1 for the May
9 meeting?
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10 MS. SOBOTA: Just to clarify. You are asking

11 could he have implemented a written policy for the
12 May meeting?
13 BY MR. TOPIC:
14 Q. Let me clarify. I'm not asking whether
15 you had the authority to pass a policy.
16 I'm just saying if someone handed you
17 Exhibit 1 prior to the -- let's say in April.
18 Let's say if someone handed you Exhibit 1 a month
19 before the May meeting, for anything within
20 Exhibit 1 that pertains to your job duties, as a
21 practical matter would you have been able to
22 implement them at that time?
23 A. It would have to go through my
24 sergeant-at-arms first.
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1 Q. And I'm not talking about approvals.

2 I'm just saying as a practical matter. Let me ask
3 it a better way.
4 A. Sure.
5 Q. Is there any reason that, as a practical
6 matter, you could not have reserved 15 seats on the
7 second floor or the third floor for the May or June
8 2016 meetings?
9 A. I could have, yeah.
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10 Q. And have you had any problems

11 implementing this policy that is Exhibit 1 since it
12 was passed?
13 A. No.
14 Q. And has there been a City Council
15 meeting since Exhibit 1 was passed?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And were there any issues with seating
18 at that meeting?
19 A. No.
20 Q. And this two-week to 48-hour change that
21 you referenced, could you have implemented that -22 again, not authority but as a practical matter,
23 could you have implemented that for the May and
24 June meetings?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. On Exhibit 1, Section 3, does that -3 does the first sentence have your e-mail address on
4 it?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And Exhibit 1 indicates under Section 3
7 that an individual or group wishing to reserve
8 gallery seats can do so by calling, and
9 there's a phone number, or e-mailing
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10 lamar.brown@cityofchicago.org not more than two

11 weeks, not less than 48 hours before the scheduled
12 meeting. Do you see that?
13 A. I do.
14 Q. Prior to this policy taking effect, are
15 you aware of any policy -- anything on the City
16 Council website or anything that otherwise would
17 indicate to the general public they could reserve
18 seats by e-mailing or calling?
19 A. Could you restate the question?
20 Q. Yeah. I can ask you a better question,
21 I think.
22 Have you ever gotten a call or an e-mail
23 from anyone who is not a member of the City Council
24 or a City employee or was -- or was directed there
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1 by a City employee, contacting you to reserve

2 seats?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How often did that occur?
5 A. It's hard to tell.
6 Q. So can you -- for any examples of
7 instances in which someone contacted you to reserve
8 a seat but was not a City employee or was not sent
9 there by a City employee, do you know how that
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10 person knew to contact you?

11 A. I do not.
12 Q. Did you ever ask anyone, How did you
13 know to contact me about reserving a seat?
14 A. No.
15 Q. And your understanding of the seating
16 policy for seat reservations is now and has always
17 been first-come first-served; is that correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. In order for you to implement a
20 first-come first-served seating policy, do you need
21 to have a description of the group who has
22 requested seat reservations?
23 A. Are you asking if that is a rule or -24 Q. No. So I'm not asking about the rule.
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1 I'm just asking about how you -- how you implement

2 the policy as a practical matter.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. And the policy is that seat reservations
5 are taken on a first-come first-served basis; is
6 that correct?
7 A. Sure. Correct.
8 Q. In order to implement a first-come
9 first-served policy for seat reservations, do you
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10 need a description of the group reserving the

11 seats?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Why?
14 A. Just to be aware if -- and be
15 knowledgeable about who is coming to the City
16 Council.
17 Q. Why is that necessary in order to
18 implement a first-come first-served policy?
19 A. Well, it's just a safety measure.
20 Q. How is it a safety measure?
21 A. Well, you get all kinds of people and
22 groups that come through a public building, and we
23 want to make sure that there are no dangers posed
24 to members of the public and other people in the
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1 building, specifically on the second and third

2 floor of the City Council.
3 Q. Is there a process for evaluating
4 security concerns with requested seat reservations?
6 Q. Have you ever -- have you ever taken the
7 description of a group that you received requesting
8 seat reservations and asked the sergeant-at-arms or
9 the Chicago Police Department or anyone else about
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10 any security concerns?

11 A. No.
12 Q. And so -- and there is no process that
13 you are aware of for screening potential seat
14 reservations for security issues, correct?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
18 BY MR. TOPIC:
19 Q. Sure. There is no process in place for
20 screening groups who have requested City Council
21 seat reservations for security issues, correct?
22 A. Do you mean prior to this policy?
23 Q. Why don't we start with prior to this
24 policy, yes.
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1 A. Okay. Could you restate the question?

2 Q. Prior to Exhibit 1 taking effect, was
3 there a process in place for security screening for
4 people requesting seat reservations for City
5 Council meetings?
6 A. There was not an official process.
7 Q. Was there an unofficial process?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What was that unofficial process?
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10 A. Well, again, just when a group or an

11 alderman or whomever would request seats to the
12 Council -- to attend the Council, I would ask for a
13 description or a name of the group. That is
14 probably the best definition of it, a name of the
15 group who are coming.
16 Q. And what did you do with that
17 information, when you got the name of a group, to
18 address any security screening?
19 A. Well, it helps identify and locate and
20 seat groups when they come to the Council.
21 Q. I understand that, but I want to focus
22 on the security issue.
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. I don't want to mischaracterize what you
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1 said, but I believe what you said was that the

2 reason that you needed a description of the group
3 requesting seat reservations was to analyze
4 potential security issues; is that correct?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. Okay. So I just would like some
7 specifics about how you have undertaken that
8 security screening in the past, if at all?
9 A. Well, again, I would ask if there were
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10 any groups or names of groups who were coming to

11 the Council and would see if they were attempting
12 to come into the Council and pose a threat to the
13 public or members of the body.
14 Q. How did you go about determining whether
15 the group was a threat to the public or to the City
16 Council?
17 A. Well, I would look them up and see if
18 they were dangerous -- a dangerous group or not.
19 Q. When you say "look them up," where did
20 you look them up?
21 A. Google.com.
22 Q. Do you have any security training?
23 A. No.
24 Q. So when you say that you look them up to
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1 see if they posed a threat, what were you looking

2 for?
3 A. Just news and just to see if they were a
4 violent group or a group that would pose a threat.
5 Q. But you did not ask the Chicago Police
6 Department to conduct that analysis?
7 A. No. We are -- a sergeant-at-arms has
8 immediate jurisdiction, at least to the second and
9 third floors of the City Council.
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10 Q. Did the sergeant-at-arms train you how

11 to look up groups to see if they posed a security
12 threat for a City Council meeting?
13 A. No. Can I use the restroom?
14 Q. Yeah. We can take a break at any time
15 that you want to.
16 A. Okay.
18 BY MR. TOPIC:
19 Q. Welcome back.
20 A. Great.
21 Q. Can you identify for me every group that
22 you remember that you looked up on Google to
23 determine whether they were a violent group posing
24 a security risk when asking for seat reservations
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1 for a City Council meeting?

3 Q. Is that something that you did for every
4 group that reserved seats or requested to reserve
5 seats?
6 A. No.
7 Q. How did you determine which groups to
8 look up and which groups not to look up, to
9 determine whether they were a violent group or a
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10 security risk to the City Council?

11 A. Just a hunch actually. If I had not
12 heard of them before or just not familiar with the
13 group.
14 Q. And can you give me -- you can't think
15 of any examples where you looked up the group?
16 A. I'm sorry. I can't remember.
17 Q. Is there anything that might jog your
18 memory?
19 A. Not that I can think of.
20 Q. Did you use your work computer to look
21 up some groups who requested seat reservations for
22 City Council meetings?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you remember which browser you used?
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2 Q. Do you have more than one browser on
3 your computer?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Which browsers do you have?
6 A. Google Chrome and Internet Explorer.
7 Q. And do you clear the browsing histories
8 on your browsers?
9 A. No.
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10 Q. So it's possible that there's records in

11 your browsing history that might show or at least
12 help remind you what groups you looked up who had
13 reserved or attempted to reserve seats for City
15 A. I could not be certain.
16 Q. But that's possible?
17 A. Perhaps.
18 Q. And when you looked up any groups who
19 were attempting to reserve City Council seats, did
20 you ever have any discussions with anyone else
21 about the results of what you found?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Was anyone else aware that you were
24 researching some of the groups who were requesting
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1 City Council seat reservations?

2 A. No.
3 Q. Was there any other criteria that you
4 used to determine which other groups that you
5 looked up to reserve City Council meetings other
6 than your hunch?
8 Q. When you looked up any groups who
9 attempted to reserve City Council seats, were you
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10 looking for anything other than indications that

11 they were a violent group?
12 A. No.
13 Q. If someone attempted under the -- let me
14 back up. I think in your prior answers when we
15 were talking about researching groups who were
16 requesting City Council meetings, were you limiting
17 it to prior to Exhibit 1 taking effect, or was all
18 of the same true even after Exhibit 1 took effect?
19 A. It's all encompassing. It's before and
20 now. It's -- I have not -- again, I have not
21 researched any groups or done anything of that
22 nature lately but -- so this can only speak to
23 prior.
24 Q. When you said "lately" in your last
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1 answer, what is -- when is "lately"? What is

2 the -- what is the earliest date or most -- I
3 should say, what is the most recent date that you
4 remember or which meeting or something like that
5 that you remember last investigating groups asking
6 for City Council seats?
7 A. Well, you just stated that prior to this
8 policy here, so that is what I was referring to.
9 Q. So for the June or May 2016 meetings,
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10 did you do any research on any groups who had

11 requested seat reservations?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Do you remember whether you did any
14 research on any groups who requested seat
15 reservations at all in 2016?
17 Q. There's a statement in Section 3 of
18 Exhibit 1 that says, "The sergeant-at-arms reserves
19 the right to limit group size and to seat visitors
20 in the second floor or third floor gallery based on
21 seat availability"?
22 A. Uh-huh.
23 Q. Do you know what criteria are used by
24 the sergeant-at-arms to determine whether to limit
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1 group size or where to seat visitors?

2 A. No. Typically, we try to limit the size
3 of groups just so everyone can have a fair shot at
4 having a seat in the chamber.
5 Q. Have you ever had occasion to see the
6 size of a line of people waiting to get into a City
7 Council meeting?
8 A. On occasion.
9 Q. Okay. Do you know whether for the May
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10 or June 2016 City Council meetings you saw the size

11 of a line of people waiting to get into a meeting?
13 Q. Is there anything that might help you
14 remember?
16 Q. What is the largest line you remember
17 seeing of people waiting to get into a City Council
18 meeting who didn't have seat reservations?
19 A. Can you clarify the question?
20 Q. Sure. On at least one occasion you
21 have -- you have seen a line of people waiting to
22 get into a City Council meeting?
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. Is that true?
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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. How big was the line?
3 A. Are you asking for a quantity?
4 Q. Yes, as best you can tell.
5 A. I don't want to speculate.
6 Q. Can you recall an occasion where you saw
7 more than 20 people waiting in line to get into a
8 City Council meeting without seat reservations?
9 A. I cannot.
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10 Q. So you don't -- you don't know how large

11 a line has been in any City Council meeting of
12 people waiting to get into the Council meeting
13 without seat reservations?
14 A. Correct. You are asking me to identify
15 a specific number of individuals who are waiting to
16 get inside of the City Council without reserved
17 seating; is that correct?
18 Q. Well -19 A. I won't ask you questions. I apologize.
20 Q. I have no problem with you asking me a
21 question to make sure -22 A. I want to make sure that we are on the
23 same page.
24 Q. And we have to talk one at time, or
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1 she's going to get mad at us both. Mostly me, not

2 you.
3 So I understand that you probably did
4 not sit and count exactly how many people were
5 there, but I know that typically people are able to
6 at least estimate, you know, within some reasonable
7 range of -- Oh, it was somewhere between 10 and 20
8 people, something like that.
9 A. Uh-huh.
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10 Q. This is all prefaced for me to just ask

11 you, for any City Council meetings that you
12 remember, do you remember approximately how many
13 people were waiting in line to get into the meeting
14 without reservations?
15 A. I don't know. It's hard to identify
16 that when you have people who have reservations,
17 people who don't have reservations standing in the
18 same line or in the same area.
19 Q. Okay. I got it. I want to go back to
20 number of seats in the areas, second floor and
21 third floor. Prior to Exhibit 1 taking effect, is
22 it correct that there was no limit on how many
23 seats could be reserved for a City Council meeting?
24 A. Officially there was no limit.
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1 Q. And are you aware of any instances in

2 which all of the seats for a City Council meeting
3 were reserved? Let's just focus on the second
4 floor first.
5 A. Uh-huh.
6 Q. Are you aware of any instances in which
7 all of the seats on the second floor had been
8 reserved for a City Council meeting?
9 A. No.
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10 Q. Are you aware of any instances in which

11 all of the seats on the third floor were reserved
12 for a City Council meeting?
13 A. No.
14 Q. What is the largest number of seat
15 reservations that you remember having for any City
16 Council meeting on either the second floor or the
17 third floor or both?
18 A. Are you speaking in terms of groups in
19 general or total?
20 Q. I'm looking for the total.
21 A. I could not really tell you the total,
22 but we have intern -- City of Chicago intern groups
23 who come in, for example, and they might have
24 60 seats reserved.
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1 Q. Why are interns allowed to have reserved

2 seats for City Council meetings?
3 A. Excuse me?
5 BY MR. TOPIC:
6 Q. Do you know why interns are allowed to
7 have reserved seats for City Council meetings?
8 A. No, other than the fact that they are
9 reserved through one of the aldermen.
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10 Q. Have you ever turned down requests for

11 seat reservations because you were concerned that
12 people without seat reservations might not have a
13 place to sit?
14 A. Could you repeat the question?
15 Q. Have you ever turned down a request for
16 seat reservations because you were concerned that
17 people trying to get in line without a reservation
18 would not be able to get into a meeting?
19 A. Not that I remember.
22 identification.)
23 BY MR. TOPIC:
24 Q. Let's go back to something else. I'm
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1 going to hand you what I'm marking as Exhibit 2.

2 It is titled Reserved Seating Chart, City Council,
3 May 18, 2016. Do you recognize Exhibit 2?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What is it?
6 A. It is a seating chart, reserved seating
7 chart for City Council.
8 Q. Is there any way to tell on Exhibit 2
9 which seats are not reserved? Is it the empty
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10 boxes or the empty spaces or not at all? I'm

11 having a little bit of a hard time following this.
12 A. The empty boxes are unreserved seating.
13 Q. Just so I don't mess it up, could you
14 look at Exhibit 2 and tell me how many seats were
15 not reserved?
16 A. 15.
17 Q. Do you know why aldermen are allowed to
18 reserve seats?
19 A. I don't.
20 Q. Who prepared Exhibit 2?
21 A. I did.
22 Q. Do you have a document similar to
23 Exhibit 2 for every City Council meeting for your
24 time at the City Council?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Oh, one other question. Exhibit 2, this
3 is just for the second floor; is that correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. I see referenced third floor gallery
6 kind of in the middle towards the bottom. Do you
7 see that?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Does that indicate that 90 of the third
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10 floor gallery seats were reserved?

11 A. No.
12 Q. How many seats were reserved for the
13 City Council meeting on the third floor in May of
14 2016?
15 A. None.
16 Q. Do you have an understanding of -- well,
17 you wrote it. What did you mean when you wrote,
18 3rd Floor Gallery, Posse Scholars (60), Gates
19 Scholars (30)?
20 A. The third floor gallery of the City
21 Council is open seating at all times. In the event
22 that we have overflow on the second floor, we move
23 all groups or any other public person attempting to
24 go into the second floor gallery to the third
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1 floor.
2 Even though it's identified here on the
3 chart here for these groups to go up to the third
4 floor, it's still not reserved. So for clarity, if
5 in the event there are already 60 or 70 people on
6 the third floor waiting for the meeting to begin
7 and the Posse Scholars and the Gates Scholars came
8 late and were not able to get into the third floor,
9 they would have to wait outside as well.
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10 Q. Do you know, what time did you tell or

11 did someone tell the Posse Scholars and Gates
12 Scholars to arrive at the City Council to be
13 seated?
15 Q. Is this common, that if there's
16 additional groups of people who you expected to put
17 on the third floor, that you would note that on the
18 seating chart?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And do you -- do you directly
21 communicate with those groups, or does someone else
22 do it about the seating for the meeting?
23 A. Yeah, someone else does.
24 Q. Okay. And do you know who that is?
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1 A. The Mayor's Office.

3 marked Deposition Exhibit No. 3,
4 for identification.)
5 BY MR. TOPIC:
6 Q. Okay. I'm going to hand you Exhibit 3,
7 which is the June City Council meeting seating
8 chart. Do you recognize Exhibit 3?
9 A. Yes.
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10 Q. And what is Exhibit 3?

11 A. The reserved seating chart.
12 Q. For the?
13 A. For City Council.
14 Q. For the June 22 meeting?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Did you create Exhibit 3?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And could you tell me how many seats
19 in the second floor were not reserved for the
20 June 22nd City Council meeting?
21 A. 21.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. 22 -- I'm sorry. 23.
24 Q. 23?
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1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. Now, for seats that are not reserved at
3 a City Council meeting, how are those seats given
4 to the public or to anyone to view?
5 A. They are not given. They are just open
6 seats, so they are out for anyone who wants to sit
7 in them.
8 Q. So if someone is the first person in
9 line for a City Council meeting without a
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10 reservation, for both the May and the June

11 meetings, they should have gotten a seat at
12 10:00 a.m., correct?
13 MS. SOBOTA: Objection, calls for speculation.
14 BY THE WITNESS:
16 BY MR. TOPIC:
17 Q. Sure. And my question is based on your
18 experience with the seating charts and working with
19 how seats are allocated.
20 If a seat is not reserved, that means
21 it's -- it should be open to the first person in
22 line to get into the meeting, right?
23 A. I couldn't tell.
24 Q. Who would know the answer to that
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1 question, to the best of your knowledge?

2 A. If there's an open seat in the second
3 floor gallery, there are other Mayor's Office staff
4 that stands in the back who are also seating
5 groups, so whether the first person in line is able
6 to get into that seat, I could not tell you
7 specifically at that time if they were able to get
8 into the seat.
9 Q. You reference "other seating groups" in
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10 your last answer. What does that mean?

11 A. Groups that are on this list here, on
12 the reserved seating chart.
13 Q. So my question is about the seats that
14 are -- that were not reserved, so the -- on
15 Exhibit 3, you identify there were 23 seats that
16 were not reserved; is that right?
17 A. Sure.
18 Q. So other than the first people -- the
19 first 23 people waiting in line to get into the
20 City Council meeting, based on your experience, who
21 else might take those seats?
22 MS. SOBOTA: Objection, calls for speculation.
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. I couldn't tell you. There are -- many
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1 people in these groups bring more than what are

2 allocated initially. Sometimes groups bring less.
3 It's very -- it's a very regular occurrence that
4 when you have a big meeting where interns are being
5 honored or aldermen are bringing groups to be
6 honored to the Council, that they bring more people
7 to the chamber than the number that we were given
8 or I was given.
9 BY MR. TOPIC:
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10 Q. And the "more people" in your last

11 answer, they would get open seats at the City
12 Council meeting before people who were waiting in
13 line, correct?
14 A. Yes.
17 identification.)
18 BY MR. TOPIC:
19 Q. Let me hand you what I'm marking as
20 Exhibit 4, which is Bates stamped C 82. Go ahead
21 and take a minute and look at Exhibit 4, just to
22 familiarize yourself, and then I'll have some
23 questions when you are ready.
24 Do you recognize Exhibit 4?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is Exhibit 4 an e-mail chain between you
3 and Claudia Chavez about guests for the May 18th
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Is Ms. Chavez the person who creates
7 these charts, the different groups that are going
8 to be attending the meeting?
9 A. To my knowledge.
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10 Q. This is not the first time that you saw

11 an e-mail like this from Ms. Chavez, right?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. Did you typically get an e-mail like
14 this in advance of every City Council meeting?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. You see it says in a few places, "Will
17 leave after resolution"? What do you understand
18 that to mean? It's in the right-hand column in a
19 few places, so on the top table on the far right.
20 A. Uh-huh.
21 Q. Do you see it says, "Will leave after
22 resolution"?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. What do you understand that to mean?
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1 A. At the conclusion of the resolution, the

2 group will leave the City Council.
3 Q. And do you -- can you tell me from
4 looking at this or do you know what time the
5 resolution was for the JROTC cadets on Exhibit 4?
6 A. I could not tell you.
7 Q. So you see it says, "10:00 a.m. Council
8 meeting" on the table for JROTC cadets?
9 A. Yes.
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10 Q. What do you understand that to mean?

11 A. That is the meeting start time.
12 Q. And for all of these groups on the
13 topmost e-mail on Exhibit 4, it says in the
14 right-hand column, "10:00 a.m. Council meeting,"
15 correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And that means that you were expecting
18 all of these people to be seated at the 10:00 a.m.
19 start of the City Council meeting or earlier,
20 correct?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. And for some of the groups of people,
23 you were expecting that they would leave after the
24 resolution that was pertaining to them but before
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1 the City Council meeting ended; is that correct?

2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And at the bottom -- well, let me back
4 up. There's three tables. There's a 9:30 a.m.
5 group, a 9:45 a.m. group, and an 11:00 a.m. group.
6 Do you see that?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. What do the different times associated
9 with those groups mean to you?
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10 A. Those are photo line.

11 Q. What is the photo line?
12 A. It is where groups line up to take a
13 photo with the mayor.
14 Q. Do you know approximately how much time
15 at each City Council meeting is spent with the
16 photo line?
17 MS. SOBOTA: I'm going to object to the form
18 of the question.
19 BY MR. TOPIC:
20 Q. I'll ask you a new question.
21 For the May 2016 meeting, do you know
22 how much time was spent on the photo line?
23 MS. SOBOTA: Same objection.
24
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1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. I don't.
3 BY MR. TOPIC:
4 Q. So but there was a 9:30 photo line, a
5 9:45 photo line, and an 11:00 a.m. photo line; is
6 that correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you know approximately how long each
9 photo line was?
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10 A. No.
11 Q. And were seats for all of the people on
12 the topmost part of the e-mail on Exhibit 4
13 reserved on the second floor or third floor or
14 otherwise?
15 A. Seats are only reserved on the second
16 floor.
17 Q. And which people had reserved seats on
18 the second floor that are listed on Exhibit 4 on
19 the topmost part of the e-mail?
20 A. Can you clarify the question?
21 Q. I saw that you were comparing to
22 Exhibit 2; is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And in order to determine which people
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1 on Exhibit 4 had reserved seats on the second

2 floor, are you -- do you refer to Exhibit 2?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And how do you make that comparison?
5 A. Well, just to see if here on the chart
6 on Exhibit 2, whether they were seated or slated to
7 be seated on the second floor.
8 Q. And how do you -- how do you do that?
9 Do you compare the description field in Exhibit 4
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10 to the legend section on Exhibit 2?

11 A. Just the name. Just try to track the
12 name. If the name is on the sheet, then that's
13 the -- it's likely they were seated on the second
14 floor.
15 Q. Okay. Where it says here that groups
16 will leave after resolution, is anything done to
17 ensure that those groups leave after the
18 resolution?
19 A. I don't know.
22 identification.)
23 BY MR. TOPIC:
24 Q. I hand you Exhibit 5, which is Bates
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1 stamped C 11. Same exercise. Just take a second

2 and get familiar with it and then I'll have some
3 questions.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And this is an e-mail chain that you
7 were a part of, correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And in this e-mail chain, Justin Heath,
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10 who is the director of policy for Alderman

11 Villegas, first reserved four seats and then
12 requested an additional three seats; is that
13 correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And was the request for three additional
16 seats granted?
17 A. Yes, to my knowledge.
18 Q. And to the best of your knowledge, did
19 these -- did the additional three people take seats
20 at the May 2016 City Council meetings?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. I'm sorry? Yes?
23 A. Yes.
24
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3 identification.)
4 BY MR. TOPIC:
5 Q. Okay. I'm handing you what I'm marking
6 as Exhibit 6, which is Bates stamped C 114. Just
7 let me know when you are ready.
8 A. Ready.
9 Q. Am I correct that Exhibit 6 is an e-mail
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10 between -- an e-mail chain between Evelyn Rodriguez

11 and you in which Ms. Rodriguez requested two seats
12 to be reserved for the May 18 City Council meeting?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And did you grant seat reservations for
15 two people for Ms. Rodriguez for the May 18th
16 meeting?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And to the best of your knowledge, did
19 those two people who reserved seats through
20 Ms. Rodriguez use those seats for the May 18 City
21 Council meeting?
22 A. Yes. Restroom break?
23 Q. Sure. No problem. Any time.
24 A. Thank you.
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2 MR. TOPIC: Okay. Back on the record.
3 BY MR. TOPIC:
4 Q. Do you recall, other than Exhibits 5 and
5 6, any other requests for seat reservations that
6 had been made on May 17th for the May 18th meeting?
7 A. I do not.
8 Q. Was it a common occurrence that you
9 might get additional requests for seat reservations
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10 the day before a meeting?

11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Was there -- what was your -- well, let
13 me back up.
14 Prior to the new policy taking effect,
15 there was no cutoff, so to speak, by which a
16 reservation had to be requested; is that right?
17 A. No.
18 Q. No, there wasn't, or, no, I'm not
19 correct?
20 A. There was no cutoff.
21 Q. Okay. Did you try to, you know, at
22 least informally set expectations with the aldermen
23 that you would like to get the reservations by a
24 certain time in advance?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And how far in advance was it that you
3 would try to get the reservations?
4 A. The Friday before.
5 Q. And when do you typically make the
6 seating chart? How far in advance of the meeting?
7 A. The day before the meeting.
8 Q. Do you know, is it typically, like, in
9 the morning or at the end of the day or did it
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10 depend?
11 A. Typically, mid to late afternoon.
12 Q. And sometimes you would get requests for
13 seat reservations that occurred after you had
14 already made the seating chart; is that correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And am I right that you don't then
17 update the seating chart to reflect those
18 additional reservations?
19 A. Sometimes I do update and sometimes I
20 don't update.
21 Q. Do you know for the May 18th meeting
22 whether you updated the chart to reflect these sort
23 of evening before or afternoon before requests?
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1 Q. Okay. Do you -- and I apologize if I

2 asked this before.
3 Do you know whether there were people in
4 line for the May 18th meeting who were not able to
5 get into the meeting at 10:00 a.m.?
6 A. No, I'm not aware.
7 Q. Okay. And same question for the June
8 meeting, do you know whether there were people
9 waiting in line at 10:00 a.m. who were not able to
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10 get in to see the meeting?

11 A. No, I'm not aware.
12 Q. And did you say that the Chicago Police
13 Department operates the station, so to speak, where
14 people need to pass through security to get into
15 the City Council meeting?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And have those officers who operate
18 security for the meetings ever asked you directly
19 or indirectly whether there were available seats
20 for people who were waiting in line?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Was there a sort of common practice or
23 procedure for how the Chicago Police Department and
24 you would communicate about what seats were
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1 available or not?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Do you remember for the May 2016 meeting
4 whether the Chicago Police Department asked you
5 directly or indirectly whether there were available
6 seats for people waiting in line?
8 Q. And same thing for the June 2016
9 meeting?
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11 Q. In your experience -- in your
12 experience, are you always the person who the
13 police department asks whether there's available
14 seats, or are there other people to ask?
15 MS. SOBOTA: Objection to foundation.
16 BY THE WITNESS:
17 A. There are other people that they ask.
18 BY MR. TOPIC:
19 Q. Who are the people that the Chicago
20 Police Department asks or has asked about available
21 seating for a City Council meeting?
23 MR. TOPIC: He just said that he knows there's
24 other people. How does that not have foundation?
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1 MS. SOBOTA: You asked for the names of the

2 people. I'm objecting to foundation that he knows
3 who police officers talked to. You can go ahead
4 and answer, if you know.
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. The Mayor's Office.
7 BY MR. TOPIC:
8 Q. The police department has spoken with
9 the Mayor's Office about what seats are available
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10 in the City Council chambers?

11 A. Yes. The group leads, yes.
12 Q. What are group leads?
13 A. They are folks who bring the groups who
14 are identified in Exhibit 4 down to City Council
15 chambers for photo line.
16 Q. So Mary Urbina might be an example of
17 such a person? Sorry. Go back to Exhibit 4 for a
18 second.
19 I see a field for group lead, but it's
20 not filled in. Oh, Justin Heath is one. Is Justin
21 Heath an example of someone who the Chicago Police
22 Department has asked about available seats for
23 people waiting in line at a City Council meeting?
24 A. I can't confirm.
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1 Q. Are there any specific people that you

2 can recall the police department asking whether
3 there was available seats?
4 A. Yeah, maybe Mary Urbina-McCarthy and the
5 Mayor's Office staff.
6 Q. And what is the nature of that
7 communication, in your experience? For example,
8 does the Chicago Police Department inform someone
9 in the Mayor's Office, There is people waiting in
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10 line, can we let them in? Is that an example of

11 how those communications have gone in the past?
13 Q. Do you know anything about how they
14 communicate with each other?
15 A. I do not. What I have been asked is are
16 the groups -- are the seats full, not whether or
17 not they can let anyone in.
18 Q. Okay. So you have been asked in
19 connection with City Council meetings whether there
20 are seats available; is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And for the May 2016 City Council
23 meeting, did anyone ask you after the meeting began
24 whether there were seats available?
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2 Q. Same question for the June meeting?
4 Q. Are you aware of any communications in
5 which City Council staff and the police department
6 or the Mayor's Office looked at the number of
7 people who previously had been in line without
8 being able to get into a meeting to determine how
9 many seats should be allowed to be reserved at a
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10 future meeting?
11 MS. SOBOTA: Could you read that back?
12 (WHEREUPON, the record was read by
13 the reporter.)
14 BY THE WITNESS:
16 BY MR. TOPIC:
17 Q. If there was a discussion like that,
18 based on what your job duties are, would you expect
19 that you would be part of that discussion?
20 A. Probably.
23 identification.)
24
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1 BY MR. TOPIC:
2 Q. I'm going to hand you what I'm marking
3 as Exhibit 7, which is Bates stamped C 351. Take a
4 second.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And is this an e-mail chain that
8 includes you and the assistant to the Chairman
9 Ariel Reboyras about seats for the June 2016 City
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10 Council meeting?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And in this e-mail the assistant to
13 Chairman Reboyras was asking for seats for eight
14 guests; is that correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Were you able to reserve eight seats for
17 Chairman Reboyras? I'm sure I'm butchering the
18 pronunciation.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You were able to reserve eight seats?
21 Sorry. That was -- yes, you were able to reserve
22 eight seats -23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- in connection with Exhibit 7?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. When you said, "We're full," what -- did
3 you know that you were full and then later realized
4 that you were not full, or how do you reconcile
5 that you told them that you were full but then they
6 got seats?
7 A. Well, I just moved some seats around.
8 That is pretty much it. I typically don't like to
9 scatter groups. I like to keep groups together.
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10 And when stating that I was full, is

11 that all of the sections themselves were full, and
12 I may have pushed some seats back to sort of fill
13 in the eight seats.
14 Q. When you say "push some seats back," you
15 mean you rearranged some of the seating so that you
16 could accommodate additional reservations?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Has seating ever been rearranged to
19 accommodate people waiting in line?
21 Q. And do you know whether the eight seats
22 that were reserved in Exhibit 7, whether those
23 guests sat in those seats for the meeting?
24 A. I'm not sure.
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3 identification.)
4 BY MR. TOPIC:
5 Q. I hand you what I'm marking as
6 Exhibit 8, which is Bates stamped C 357. Do you
7 recognize Exhibit 8?
8 A. I'm not done reading the e-mail.
9 Q. Oh, I'm sorry. Take your time. Do you
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10 recognize Exhibit 8?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And this is an e-mail chain between you
13 and Julia Ellis about seating for the June 2016
14 City Council meeting, correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Who is Julia Ellis?
17 A. A former employee for the City Clerk.
18 Q. Do you know what her job is with the
19 City Clerk?
20 A. To the best of my knowledge, she was
21 legal.
22 Q. Had you interacted with Ms. Ellis in the
23 past in connection with your job?
24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. And in this e-mail Ms. Ellis is

2 requesting four seats to be reserved for the
3 June 2016 City Council meeting; is that correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Did Ms. Ellis already have a reserved
6 seat and was asking for three more seats? Is that
7 how you understood this?
8 A. No.
9 Q. So this was a request for a total of
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10 four seats; is that correct?

11 A. Yes, to my knowledge.
12 Q. And you told Ms. Ellis that you were
13 unable to accommodate her guests for the Council
14 meeting, correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And the reason was because you were at
17 capacity already?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And did that change? Did you ever later
20 reserve seats for Ms. Ellis and her guests?
21 MS. SOBOTA: For June?
22 BY MR. TOPIC:
23 Q. For June. I'm sorry.
24 A. I don't believe so.
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1 Q. You don't believe that you reserved

2 seats for Ms. Ellis and her guests for the June
3 2016 meeting?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Do you know whether your response
6 to Ms. Ellis in Exhibit 8 was before or after
7 you rearranged seats to find eight seats for
8 Chairman Reboyras in Exhibit 7?
9 A. I think it most -- I think it may have
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10 been after.
11 Q. Which was -- which occurred later?
12 A. I think the Julia Ellis reservation -13 well, request came later.
14 Q. I know it came later than your e-mail
15 exchange with Chairman Reboyras in Exhibit 7.
16 Let's go back -- let me withdraw the question and
17 go back to Exhibit 7.
18 In your e-mail chain in Exhibit 7, you
19 said, "We're full. I will do my best to find
20 something. I will confirm later today." Do you
21 know when that confirmation occurred?
22 A. No, I do not.
23 Q. And do you know whether that
24 confirmation -- not the e-mail in Exhibit 7 but the
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1 confirmation that is referenced in it, did that

2 occur before or after you received Ms. Ellis'
3 e-mail?
4 A. I don't know.
7 identification.)
8 BY MR. TOPIC:
9 Q. Let me hand you Exhibit 9, which is
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10 Bates stamped C 390.

11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Does this Exhibit 9 refresh your memory
13 about when you informed Chairman Reboyras that
14 there were seats available or reservations
15 available?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And that was at about 2:08 p.m.; is that
18 right?
19 A. Yes.
23 BY MR. TOPIC:
24 Q. I'm going to hand you what I'm marking
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1 as Exhibit 10, which is Bates stamped C 394.
2 think I gave you both. Okay.

3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 10?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. This is an e-mail exchange between you
7 and Abigail Foerstner at Northwestern University
8 about seating reservations; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
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10 Q. In the top part of the e-mail you state,

11 "It is a public meeting and seats will likely open
12 up as the meeting moves forward, but please keep in
13 mind we are anticipating heavy presence from
14 ride-share and home-share supporters." Do you see
15 that?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How did you know that you were
18 anticipating heavy presence from ride-share and
19 home-share supporters?
20 A. Just the substance of what was to be
21 legislated at the meeting.
22 Q. What was going to be legislated at the
23 meeting?
24 A. There was a ride-share ordinance, I
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1 believe, and home-share Airbnb ordinance.

2 Q. And those were ordinances that the mayor
3 was introducing; is that correct?
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. I'm not sure if it was the mayor or the
7 body, but yes.
8 BY MR. TOPIC:
9 Q. And how did you know to anticipate a
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10 heavy presence from ride-share and home-share

11 supporters?
12 A. Prior meetings.
13 Q. What do you mean?
14 A. The substance of ride-share and
15 home-share, specifically ride-share typically draws
16 a lot of Uber drivers and taxicab drivers to the
17 City Council, whether they are for or against it.
18 Q. There had been meetings prior to the
19 June 2016 meeting in which there was potential
20 legislation being discussed related to ride-share
21 and home-share?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you have any discussions with anyone
24 about anticipating a presence of ride-share and
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1 home-share supporters -2 A. No.

3 Q. -- for the June meeting?
4 A. Sorry. No.
5 Q. And why did you say "supporters"? Why
6 did you say "ride-share and home-share supporters"
7 specifically?
8 A. Prior experience.
9 Q. What experience are you referring to?
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10 A. Former meetings when ride-share

11 legislation was before the body, meaning Uber
12 drivers who depend on Uber to earn a living, came
13 to City Council to voice their support or lack
14 thereof for the ordinance.
15 Q. So were you anticipating -- let me back
16 up.
17 Were there any reserved seats at the
18 June 2016 meeting for ride-share and home-share
19 supporters?
21 Q. And do you know whether there was a
22 heavy presence of ride-share and home-share
23 supporters at the June 2016 meeting?
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1 Q. Would people who were supporters of

2 something being introduced at a City Council
3 meeting go through the same process of getting in
4 line to get into the meeting, if they did not have
5 reservations, based on your past experience?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. So if there were people not associated
8 with ride-share or home-share who were in line for
9 the June 2016 City Council meeting before any
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10 ride-share or home-share supporters arrived, in

11 your experience then the people in line first
12 should have been allowed in before the later
13 arriving home-share and ride-share supporters,
14 correct?
15 A. I'm not aware of whether these groups
16 arrived.
17 Q. I guess my question is, is there any
18 reason why ride-share and home-share supporters
19 without a reservation would be in the City Council
20 chamber before people who were arrived earlier and
21 were in line? Any reason that you can think of?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Is there any practice of allowing people
24 into the City Council chamber without reservations
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1 when they have expressed a particular interest in

2 an issue being discussed at the meeting?
4 BY THE WITNESS:
5 A. Clarify that question, please.
6 MR. TOPIC: I like how I phrased it and I
7 don't remember. Would you mind reading it back?
8 (WHEREUPON, the record was read by
9 the reporter.)
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10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. No.
15 BY MR. TOPIC:
16 Q. I hand you Exhibit 11, which is Bates
17 stamped C 384. Do you recognize Exhibit 11?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. It's an e-mail chain with you and
20 various other people about reserved seating for
21 City of Chicago interns; is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Would you turn to the third page of
24 Exhibit 11. There's an e-mail that is timestamped
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1 8:31 a.m. Do you see that? It's from Gail Beitz,

2 B-e-i-t-z, to Peter Polacek, P-o-l-a-c-e-k. Do you
3 see that?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And who is -- do you have any -- let me
6 back up.
7 Who is Gail Beitz? What is her job?
8 A. Gail Beitz is staff to president pro
9 temp Margaret Laurino of the 39th Ward.
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10 Q. I'm not asking you to speculate what

11 other people thought. I am just asking based on
12 your experience in connection with your job what
13 you think.
14 Do you have any idea why Peter Polacek
15 asked Gail Beitz about seat reservations?
16 A. Maybe because he had interns and she had
17 interns, City Council interns.
18 Q. Was it your understanding or your
19 recollection that there was a set number of total
20 seats that were going to be reserved for interns
21 for the June meeting?
22 A. Can you repeat the question?
23 Q. Sure. For the June 2016 City Council
24 meeting, is it your recollection that there was a
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1 set number of seats being reserved for City

2 interns?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So for lack of a better term, is it your
5 understanding that Mr. Polacek was asking Ms. Beitz
6 for some of the seats that she otherwise would have
7 been using? I'm just trying to understand as best
8 we can what was going on here.
9 A. I'm not sure.
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10 Q. Okay. Going to the front page, at 2:59

11 you told Peter that you would reserve eight spaces
12 for interns, correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And you had previously told Julia Ellis
15 that there were not seats available for her group,
16 correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Why did you give those additional seats
19 to Peter Polacek and not to Julia Ellis?
20 A. Because they were interns and they were
21 going to be sitting in the same group, and Julia
22 Ellis did not get a reservation because although
23 groups are able to reserve the chamber, it is my
24 sole interest in not at least filling every seat in
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1 the chamber with reserved seats, just so members of

2 the general public are able to get into the main
3 floor lobby -- main floor chamber.
4 Q. So my question though is at some point
5 on June 21st you realized that you could make eight
6 spaces available for Peter, and my question is why
7 didn't you make those seats available instead for
8 Julia Ellis or at least some of those seats?
9 A. Again, they were interns, so they were
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10 here on behalf of -- or requesting seats on behalf

11 of the City. And, again, they were interns, so I
12 just threw them in with the rest of her group.
13 Q. When you say "with the rest of her
14 group," it was -- you granted additional seats
15 beyond what the group had been allocated, correct?
16 A. I don't remember. The numbers change a
17 lot with regard to how many interns that they are
18 bringing.
22 BY MR. TOPIC:
23 Q. Okay. I'm handing you Exhibit 12, which
24 is Bates stamped C 302. Go ahead and take a second
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1 and look at it.

2 A. Okay.
3 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 12?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And is this a request for reserved
6 seating from the chief of staff for Alderman
7 Ramirez-Rosa for two seats for the June 2016 City
8 Council meeting?
9 A. Yes.
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10 Q. And you noted in your response at 4:13

11 that, "Wednesday will be packed and we are already
12 full," correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And what was the resolution of this?
15 Did you provide two seats to Alderman
16 Ramirez-Rosa's guests?
18 Q. Is there anything that would help you to
19 remember?
20 A. I'm not sure.
21 Q. Do you know whether you ever provided a
22 further response by e-mail to Ms. Trevino?
24 Q. Would you typically -- I mean, somebody
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1 made a request for seats and you said you would

2 check on it. You would typically eventually
3 respond to them, correct?
4 A. Typically.
5 Q. And do you typically communicate over
6 e-mail with people asking for seat reservations?
7 A. Yes.
8 MR. TOPIC: Why don't we take a little break
9 for a couple of minutes.
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10 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

12 BY MR. TOPIC:
13 Q. I have two videos that we produced in
14 this case, and I want to show them to you and then
15 ask you some questions. Obviously, I can't hand
16 them to you. I have them on my computer, and I
17 don't have a projector. The easiest thing is, I
18 will situate it over here. You can see it. Your
19 attorneys can come around so they can see it too.
20 Everybody can see it.
21 I'll identify for the record, the first
22 one is Bates stamped Thayer No. 1.
23 (WHEREUPON, the video was played.)
24
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1 BY MR. TOPIC:
2 Q. Okay. First question. Are you the
3 person who is on the video we just looked at?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. Do you recall what meeting that
6 video was taken at?
7 A. I don't.
8 Q. And in that video you referenced
9 resolution groups; is that correct?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What is a resolution group?
12 A. Groups that are being honored before the
13 City Council or via a mayoral resolution and via
14 aldermanic resolutions.
15 Q. And where was that video taken? Let me
16 just back up for a second. I know you did not take
17 the video, but you can see where the video was
18 taken. So just go with me that that is an actual
19 video that was taken. In fact, let me just back up
20 even further.
21 Do you disagree that you made any of the
22 statements that we saw on that video?
23 A. I made those statements.
24 Q. And where were you when that video was
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1 taken?
2 A. In the second floor elevator lobby near
3 the entry point.
4 Q. Do you know why you were at that
5 location at that time?
6 A. As any other time when I step out of the
7 chamber, I'm going to check on press conferences.
8 Q. So do you know whether you were checking
9 on press conferences at the time? What happened, I
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10 guess, is my question?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How did those circumstances come about?
13 A. Again, I don't want to speculate, but
14 the only reason why I would step out of the chamber
15 is to go check press conferences because my primary
16 role is to get folks in their seats in the chamber
17 on the day of Council.
18 Q. So why did you respond to those people
19 in that video?
20 A. Why did I respond to them?
21 Q. Correct.
22 A. They were suggesting that I would not
23 let them in.
24 Q. So do you know who the person was who
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1 was allowing or not allowing people in at the video

2 that was taken there?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Do you know whether it would be the
5 Chicago Police Department or someone else?
6 A. I wouldn't.
7 Q. I'm going to play the video again and
8 probably stop it along the way with some more
9 questions.
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11 BY MR. TOPIC:
12 Q. Do you know whether the people who said
13 they were waiting since 8:15 were waiting since
14 8:15?
15 A. I would have no idea.
17 BY MR. TOPIC:
18 Q. Why did you make reference to resolution
19 groups in this video?
20 A. I made reference to resolution groups
21 because those were the groups that had reserved
22 seats in the chamber.
23 Q. So were you communicating to these
24 people that the reason that there were not seats
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1 for them was because there were seats for

2 resolution groups?
4 BY THE WITNESS:
5 A. No.
6 BY MR. TOPIC:
7 Q. Why were you referencing resolution
8 groups then?
9 A. Well, you just asked me if there were -ELECTRONICALLY FILED
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10 if the reason I was referencing resolution groups

11 is because there were no seats available for them
12 in the chamber. I did say that there were -- there
13 was public seating in the chamber but at the moment
14 the chamber was full. That's on the video.
15 Q. You said there was public seating
16 available in the chamber but at the moment it was
17 full?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What does that mean?
20 A. I'm just going based off of what I have
21 on the video, what you are seeing on the video.
22 Q. So you were saying that it was -- there
23 was public seating available because all of the
24 people who had reserved seats were members of the
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1 public?
2 A. I'm sorry. Could you restate that?
3 Q. Let me back up.
4 A. Okay.
6 BY MR. TOPIC:
7 Q. When you said "plenty of general public
8 available," what were you trying to communicate?
9 A. Well, I believe that the gentleman in
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10 the video who was filming, at least, was suggesting

11 that I would not let them in the chamber because
12 there were no seats for the public. I told him
13 that, yes, there are seats for the public, but as
14 stated in the video, at the moment there were no
15 seats available.
16 So as a general matter, there is public
17 seating available, but at that time the chamber was
18 at capacity.
19 Q. And it was at capacity because people
20 had reserved seats or because people had earlier
21 got in from the line, or do you know?
22 A. I don't know.
23 Q. All right. I have another video I'm
24 going to show you. You are not depicted in it, so
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1 maybe it does not jog your memory at all. Let's

2 just go ahead. This is Thayer No. 24.
4 BY MR. TOPIC:
5 Q. Do you recognize any of the events
6 depicted in the video that we just watched?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you recognize where that video was
9 shot?
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10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Where?
12 A. In the elevator lobby on the second
13 floor.
14 Q. And just looking at what people were
15 wearing or signs they were holding, does that give
16 you any indication as to what meeting that likely
17 was?
18 A. I believe it may have been the June 22nd
19 meeting.
20 Q. And did you ever have any discussions or
21 were you aware of any discussions about the group
22 of people chanting in the elevator lobby that they
23 were not able to get into the June meeting?
24 A. No.
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1 Q. Just a second. The resolutions that you

2 mentioned for various people being honored, do
3 those ever start before 10:00 a.m.?
4 A. No.
5 Q. And in your experience do people always
6 stay until the end of City Council meetings?
8 BY THE WITNESS:
9 A. Can you restate the question?
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10 BY MR. TOPIC:
11 Q. Sure. You are present in the Council
12 chamber for most City Council meetings, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Has it ever happened that the chamber
15 was full at the beginning of the meeting and at
16 some point it was not full anymore before the
17 meeting ended?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Does that happen typically?
20 A. Sometimes, yes.
21 Q. And is there a process for communicating
22 to whomever is responsible for the security
23 entrance that there are now seats available?
24 A. Is there a process? I'm sorry.
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1 Q. Let me back up. So someone is

2 responsible for determining whether to allow people
3 who are in line into the chamber, correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And I know that is not you, right?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. And are you aware of any process or
8 procedure or custom by which someone who is in the
9 chamber and sees whether seats have become vacant
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10 communicates that back to people who control access

11 to the chamber?
12 A. No.
13 Q. You are not aware of any process like
14 that?
15 A. No.
16 Q. And you have not ever personally
17 communicated to the people in control of the
18 entrance that there are now seats available and
19 they can let people in, correct?
20 A. No. Well, yes, that's correct.
21 MR. TOPIC: Okay. I have no further
22 questions.
23 MS. SOBOTA: Nothing. We'll read and sign.
24 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT.
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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
2 ) SS:
3 COUNTY OF C O O K )
4 I, KRISTIN C. BRAJKOVICH, a Certified
5 Shorthand Reporter of said state, do hereby
6 certify:
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10 matters herein;
12 was reported stenographically by me,
13 was thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
14 personal direction and constitutes a true record
15 of the testimony given and the proceedings had;
18 That I am not a relative or employee
19 or attorney or counsel, nor a relative or
20 employee of such attorney or counsel for any of
21 the parties hereto, nor interested directly or
22 indirectly in the outcome of this action.
24 hand and affix my seal of office at Chicago,
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102
1 Illinois, this 27th day of September, 2016.

2
3
4
5
6
7 C.S.R. Certificate No. 84-3810.
8
9
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10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

103
1 I N D E X
2 WITNESS EXAMINATION
3 LAMAR CARL BROWN
4 By Mr. Topic 3
5
6
7 E X H I B I T S
8 NUMBER PAGE
9 Deposition Exhibit
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2016-CH-09212
PAGE 104 of 127
10 No. 1 29
11 No. 2 55
12 No. 3 59
13 No. 4 62
14 No. 5 67
15 No. 6 69
16 No. 7 76
17 No. 8 79
18 No. 9 82
19 No. 10 82
20 No. 11 87
21 No. 12 90
22
23
24
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

104

2
3 Our Assignment No. J0431846
4 Case Caption: Andrew Thayer and Rick Garcia vs.
5 Chicago City Council
6
8
9 I declare under penalty of perjury that
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 105 of 127
10 I have read the entire transcript of my deposition

17
18 Signed on the __________ day of
19 _______________, 20______.
20
21
22
23 ___________________________________
24 LAMAR CARL BROWN
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

105

2
3 Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________
4 Reason for Change:_________________________________
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 106 of 127

23 SIGNATURE:________________________DATE:_________
24 LAMAR CARL BROWN
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

September 20, 2016

106

2
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 107 of 127

23 SIGNATURE:________________________DATE:_________
24 LAMAR CARL BROWN
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

(
11:00
65:5 66:5
24:14
25:5,23
26:22
29:13
32:2,7,12
34:3,9,20
35:7,13,
21 36:3
39:8
50:9,15
51:10
56:3
57:14
65:21
68:20
73:3,8
75:22
77:9
79:13
80:3 81:3
84:19
85:18,23
86:9
88:23
91:7
12
90:20,23
91:3
(30)
57:19
(60)
57:18
15
37:19
39:6
56:16
17th
70:6
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 108 of 127
29:11,15
30:16,19
31:24
32:5
36:19
37:4,15,
17,18,22,
23 38:4,
8,17,18,
20 39:11,
15 40:2,6
44:2
49:17,18
50:18
53:21
92:22
18
56:3
69:12,20
18th
63:3
69:15
70:6
71:21
72:4
1L-2
7:11
21
2
2
10
14:14
55:21
56:1,3,8,
14,20,23
57:2
66:22
67:2,6,10
53:7
82:21
83:1,4
10:00
18:9,12
60:12
64:7,14,
18 72:5,9
99:3
20
52:7 53:7
2013
6:13
11
68:1
87:13,16,
17,24
114
69:6
2016
18:19,23
19:8,13
22:3,21
23:2,6
59:21
213
27:6,10,
13,16
28:24
21st
90:5
22
59:14,23
2:08
82:17
59:23,24
61:15,19
24
98:2
66:12,18
67:1,9
74:14,17
2:59
89:10
40
8:5
44
28:23
48
3
14:15
40:2,6
50:17
59:3,6,8,
10,16
61:15
30
38:1
40:11
48-hour
39:20
4:13
91:10
8:5 29:13
5
302
90:24
5
351
77:3
67:21,24
68:4 70:4
357
79:6
384
87:17
390
82:10
69:2,6,9
70:5
394
83:1
60
54:24
58:5
39th
88:9
3rd
57:18
22nd
59:20
98:18
23
September 20, 2016

Index: (30)..70
7
76:22
77:3,5,24
78:22
81:8,15,
17,18,24
4
4
62:16,20,
21,24
63:2
64:5,13
70
58:5
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

83:7
8
8
79:2,6,7,
10 81:6
82
62:20
8:15
95:13,14
8:31
88:1
9
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 109 of 127
ability
3:22
access
100:10
accommodate
78:16,19
80:13
accurate
3:19,22
5:21
active
12:8
activities
9:23
82:6,9,12
actual
93:18
57:9
addition
5:2
90
99
27:9
9:00
19:1
9:30
65:4 66:4
9:45
65:5 66:5
A
a.m.
18:9,12
19:1
60:12
64:7,14,
18 65:4,5
66:5
72:5,9
88:1 99:3
Abigail
additional
58:16
68:12,15,
19 70:9
71:18
78:16
89:18
90:14
address
40:3
44:18
admission
32:11
advance
10:3,4
18:6
63:14
70:24
71:2,6
affidavit
9:10
September 20, 2016

Index: 8..attend
afternoon
71:11,23
analysis
46:6
areas
53:20
ahead
29:18
62:20
74:3
90:24
98:2
analyze
45:3
Ariel
77:9
answers
3:19,22
49:14
arrangement
s
28:14
anticipate
84:9
arrive
58:12
anticipatin
g
83:13,18
84:24
85:15
arrived
86:10,16,
20
Airbnb
84:1
alderman
5:5,7,8,
9,17,22
6:9,20,22
44:11
68:10
91:6,15
aldermanic
93:14
aldermen
9:20
27:12
28:2 55:9
56:17
62:5
70:22
allocated
26:9
60:19
62:2
90:15
anymore
99:16
arriving
86:13
asks
73:13,20
apologize
52:19
72:1
applied
36:20
appoint
6:23
appointed
5:11
6:13,14,
17
approvals
39:1
aspect
31:19
assistant
4:21 5:3,
14,23
6:11,24
7:14 9:17
36:9
37:10
77:8,12
assume
4:9
30:20,22
assuming
31:8,10
allowed
55:1,6
56:17
76:9
86:12
approximate
ly
53:12
65:14
66:8
allowing
86:23
95:1
April
35:13,21
36:3
38:17
attempting
45:11
48:19
57:23
Alvin
6:6 30:20
31:2
area
53:18
attend
44:12
attempted
48:13
49:9,13
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

attending
63:8
attorneys
92:19
August
29:13
authority
38:15
39:22
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 110 of 127
availabilit
y
50:21
aware
31:14
36:4
37:9,14
40:15
42:14
43:13
48:23
54:1,6,10
72:6,11
76:4
86:15
98:21
100:7,13
B
B-e-i-t-z
88:2
B-r-o-w-n
3:11
back
7:2
13:10,15
18:7
19:21
21:18
22:13
24:17
27:21
29:6
33:17
37:15
46:19
49:14
53:19
55:24
61:4 65:3
70:2,13
74:17
76:11
78:12,14
81:16,17
85:15
87:7 88:6
93:16,19
97:3
100:1,10
based
21:20
31:17
32:4
50:20
60:17
61:20
76:18
86:5
88:11
96:20
basis
34:15,17,
23 35:15
42:5
Bates
29:11
62:20
67:24
69:6 77:3
79:6
82:10
83:1
87:16
90:24
92:22
began
75:23
begin
58:6
beginning
99:15
September 20, 2016

Index: attending..change
48:5,8
browsing
48:7,11
begins
17:19
building
42:22
43:1
behalf
90:10
butchering
77:17
Beitz
88:1,7,8,
15 89:5
big
52:2 62:4
C-a-r-l
3:10
bit
56:11
cadets
64:5,8
body
45:13
84:7
85:11
call
16:3,8,11
40:22
bottom
30:4 57:6
65:3
boxes
56:10,12
break
46:14
69:22
92:8
bring
62:1,2,6
74:13
chain
63:2
68:6,9
69:10
77:7
79:12
81:18
87:19
chairman
5:18
77:8,13,
17 81:8,
15 82:13
chairs
28:1
called
3:4
calling
40:8,18
calls
60:13
61:22
capacity
5:16
80:17
97:18,19
care
28:15
bringing
62:5
90:18
Carl
3:3,10
Brown
3:3,10,13
case
8:23
92:14
browser
47:24
48:2
categorize
24:4
browsers
cetera
9:21
chamber
12:6,7
14:24
15:15
17:23,24
18:1,13,
14,16
19:2,11,
15 27:5,
11 51:4
62:7
86:20,24
89:23
90:1,3
94:7,14,
16 95:22
96:12,13,
14,16
97:11,17
99:12,14
100:3,9,
11
chambers
12:14
13:3,13,
17 14:7
15:9
74:10,15
change
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

39:20
80:19
90:16
changed
33:22
chanting
98:22
Charlotte
7:2
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 111 of 127
chart
24:13
56:2,6,7
58:3,18
59:8,11
61:12
67:5
71:6,14,
17,22
charts
22:6
23:14
24:6,11,
20 60:18
63:7
Chavez
63:3,6,11
check
17:13
20:6 92:2
94:7,15
checking
94:8
Chicago
14:8 15:2
17:9
20:17
29:12
35:22
36:20
43:9 46:5
54:22
72:12,23
73:4,19
74:21
75:8
87:21
95:5
chief
91:6
Chrome
48:6
circumstanc
es
26:13,24
94:12
City
4:18 5:12
6:15 7:16
9:7,19
10:3,6,
10,12,14,
17,21
11:1,19
12:1,4,14
13:3,12,
13,17
14:2,6,24
15:3,8,15
16:16
17:8,11,
15,19,23
18:4,6,8,
12,16,19,
24 19:2,
5,8,11
20:17
21:15,21
22:1,4,
17,21
23:2,6,7,
9,17
24:9,14,
19 25:5,
15,20,23
26:1,5,
10,22
27:2,5,17
28:1,5,22
29:12
31:5
32:1,7
33:6,11,
14 34:3,
11,21
35:7,14,
22 36:20
39:14
40:15,23,
24 41:1,
8,9 42:15
43:2,20
44:4
45:15
46:9,12
47:1,10,
22 48:13,
19 49:1,
5,9,16
50:6
51:6,10,
17,22
52:8,11,
16 53:11,
23 54:2,
8,12,15,
22 55:2,7
56:2,7,
23,24
57:13,20
58:12
59:7,13,
20 60:3,9
61:20
62:11
63:4,14
64:2,19
65:1,15
68:20
69:12,20
72:15
73:21
74:10,14,
23 75:19,
22 76:5
77:9
September 20, 2016

Index: changed..complete
79:14,17,
19 80:3
84:17
85:13
86:2,9,
19,24
87:21
88:17,23
89:1
90:11
91:7
93:13
99:6,12
clarify
4:6 22:22
28:7
30:11
34:12
38:10,14
51:19
66:20
87:5
clarity
58:4
Claudia
63:3
clear
4:5 22:23
48:7
Clerk
79:17,19
commonly
21:12
communicate
58:21
72:24
75:14
92:5 97:8
communicate
d
100:17
communicate
s
100:10
communicati
ng
95:23
99:21
communicati
on
12:8 75:7
communicati
ons
75:11
76:4
compare
67:9
column
63:18
64:14
comparing
66:21
comment
30:9
comparison
67:4
comments
30:12
committee
5:19,20
28:1
common
13:22
14:8
28:10
58:15
70:8
72:22
complained
26:3,8
complaint
9:4,7
complete
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

3:19,22
completely
23:9
computer
20:9,12,
24 21:4,
7,24
22:20
24:16,22
47:20
48:3
92:16
concerned
55:11,16
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 112 of 127
concerns
43:4,10
conclusion
64:1
conduct
46:6
conferences
10:2
12:9,11
17:13
94:7,9,15
confirm
74:24
81:20
confirmatio
n
81:21,24
82:1
confused
16:12
connection
19:17
20:13,17,
21 75:19
77:24
79:23
88:12
contact
41:10,13
contacted
41:7
contacting
41:1
contents
23:22
context
7:5
10:16,22
11:22
continuing
37:5
control
100:10,17
coordinates
32:22
coordinatin
g
33:5,11
correct
3:16 7:8,
9,15
8:17,18
13:11
14:9,22
22:1,21
25:17
31:12,13
32:19,20
34:24
37:7,8
41:17,18
42:6,7
43:14,21
45:4
52:1,14,
17 53:22
57:3,4
59:15
60:12
62:13
64:15,16,
20 65:1,2
66:6,22
68:7,13
69:9
70:19
71:14,15
75:20
77:14
78:17
79:14
80:3,4,
10,14,15,
18 81:4
83:8 84:3
86:14
87:21
89:12,16,
17 90:15
91:12
92:3 93:9
94:21
99:12,13
100:3,19,
20
Council
4:19 5:12
6:15 9:19
10:3,4,6,
10,12,14,
17,21
11:1,19
12:1,5,
14,15
13:3,13,
17 14:7,
24 15:3,
9,15
16:16
17:8,11,
16,19,23
18:4,6,8,
12,16,19,
24 19:2,
5,8,11,14
21:15,21
September 20, 2016

Index: completely..criteria
22:1,4,
18,21
23:2,6,8,
9 24:14
25:5,16,
23 26:5,
10,22
27:2,5
28:5,22
29:12
31:6
32:2,7
33:6,11,
14 34:4,
11,21
35:7,14,
22 36:20
39:14
40:16,23
42:16
43:2,20
44:5,12,
20 45:11,
12,16
46:9,12
47:1,10,
22 48:14,
19 49:1,
5,9,16
50:6
51:7,10,
17,22
52:8,11,
12,16
53:11,23
54:2,8,
12,16
55:2,7
56:2,7,
23,24
57:13,21
58:12
59:7,13,
20 60:3,9
61:20
62:6,12
63:4,14
64:2,7,
14,19
65:1,15
68:20
69:12,21
72:15
73:21
74:10,14,
23 75:19,
22 76:5
77:10
79:14
80:3,13
84:17
85:13
86:2,9,
19,24
88:17,23
91:8
93:13
94:17
99:6,11,
12
counsel
17:1
29:16
count
53:4
couple
92:9
court
9:6
covers
31:20
create
59:16
creates
63:6
creating
31:1,4,8
criteria
49:3
50:23
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

custom
100:8
deny
34:14
cut
29:11
denying
34:18
cutoff
70:15,20
department
8:2,4,9,
12,16
14:9 15:2
43:9 46:6
72:13,23
73:4,13,
20 74:8,
22 75:2,8
76:5 95:5
D
dangerous
45:18
dangers
42:23
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 113 of 127
date
23:20
50:2,3
dated
30:4
day
7:14
12:4,14
13:13
17:11
18:12
70:10
71:7,9
94:17
decision
33:15
34:10,13
decisions
34:4,5
dedicated
23:4,9
definition
44:14
delete
20:4
delineate
33:24
depend
20:4
71:10
85:12
depicted
97:24
98:6
DEPONENT
100:24
deposed
3:12
deposition
7:20,23
8:4,20
29:15
55:21
59:3
62:16
67:21
69:2
76:22
79:2
82:6,21
87:13
90:20
description
41:21
42:10
43:7
44:13
45:2 67:9
details
9:23
determine
46:23
47:7,9
49:4
50:24
66:24
76:8
determining
45:14
100:2
differences
37:16
directed
40:24
directly
58:20
72:18
73:5
director
68:10
disagree
93:21
discretion
34:18
discussed
84:20
87:2
September 20, 2016

Index: custom..earlier
11:23
48:20
84:23
98:20,21
document
23:5
29:14,20,
22 30:1,
3,7,10,13
31:1,4,8,
12,15
55:20
56:22
59:2
62:15
67:20
69:1
76:21
79:1
82:5,20
87:12
90:19
documents
8:19,22
9:2,9
12:11
20:8,12,
20,23
21:2,3,6,
12,23
23:7,15,
23 24:1,
3,12,18
25:2,4,7,
10,12,18,
22
dogs
12:7
discussing
27:1
draws
84:15
depositions
9:13
discussion
76:17,19
describe
26:12
discussions
10:24
drivers
84:16
85:12
duly
3:1,4
duties
9:16 12:4
13:11
20:14
38:5,6,20
76:18
duty
9:24
E
e-mail
19:17,20,
22 20:6
22:8
40:3,22
63:2,11,
13 64:13
66:12,19
68:6,9
69:9,10
77:7,12
79:8,12
80:1
81:14,18,
24 82:3
83:6,10
87:19,24
91:22
92:6
e-mailing
40:9,18
e-mails
20:3
earlier
16:21
21:19
34:8
35:12
64:19
86:20
97:20
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

earliest
50:2
earn
85:12
easier
16:14
easiest
92:17
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 114 of 127
effect
37:18,23
40:14
44:2
49:17,18
53:21
70:14
electronic
20:8,20
25:4
elevator
15:6,11,
16,19,21
18:3,5
94:2
98:12,22
Ellis
79:13,16,
22 80:1,
5,12,20
81:2,6,12
89:14,19,
22 90:8
Ellis'
82:2
employee
14:2
40:24
41:1,8,9
79:17
employees
27:18
28:1
empty
56:9,10,
12
encompassin
g
49:19
end
19:1 71:9
99:6
ended
65:1
99:17
engage
9:24
ensure
9:18
10:6,10
11:19
67:17
ensuring
10:24
11:24
enter
15:8
entire
23:22
37:3
entirety
18:16
entrance
12:13,21,
23 13:3,
12,16,20,
21,24
14:6,23
15:21
18:1
99:23
100:18
entrances
13:19
entry
16:6,8,
10,11,15,
18 17:7,
11 94:3
estimate
53:6
Ethics
5:19,20
evaluating
43:3
Evelyn
69:10
evening
7:13
71:23
event
57:21
58:5
events
8:23 98:5
eventually
92:2
exact
23:20
EXAMINATION
3:6
examined
3:5
examples
41:6
47:15
exception
37:11
exceptions
35:1,8
36:4 37:9
exchange
81:15
83:6
September 20, 2016

Index: earliest..fair
Excuse
55:3
exercise
68:1
Exhibit
29:11,15
30:16,19
31:24
32:5
36:19
37:4,15,
17,18,22,
23 38:4,
8,17,18,
20 39:11,
15 40:2,6
44:2
49:17,18
50:18
53:21
55:21
56:1,3,8,
14,20,23
57:2
59:3,6,8,
10,16
61:15
62:16,20,
21,24
63:2
64:5,13
66:12,18,
22 67:1,
2,6,9,10,
21,24
68:4
69:2,6,9
74:14,17
76:22
77:3,5,24
78:22
79:2,6,7,
10 81:6,
8,15,17,
18,24
82:6,9,
12,21
83:1,4
87:13,16,
17,24
90:20,23
91:3
Exhibits
70:4
expect
76:18
expectation
s
70:22
expected
58:16
expecting
64:17,23
experience
32:5
60:18
61:20
73:11,12
75:7
85:8,9
86:5,11
88:12
99:5
explain
9:16 22:9
Explorer
48:6
expressed
87:1
F
fact
55:8
93:19
fair
51:3
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

familiar
47:12
68:2
familiarize
62:22
field
67:9
74:19
fifteen
32:9,10
filing
9:6
fill
78:12
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 115 of 127
filled
74:20
filling
89:24
filming
97:10
find
81:7,19
first-come
34:15,16,
23 35:2,
9,15
36:1,5,11
37:6,12
41:17,20
42:5,8,18
firstserved
34:15,17,
23 35:2,
9,15
36:1,5,11
37:6,12
41:17,20
42:5,9,18
fix
12:19
floor
13:14,20,
21,24
14:6,23
15:12,15,
21 16:1
17:22
18:13,14
19:12
27:5,8,10
29:8
32:9,10,
13 39:7
43:2
50:20
53:20,21
54:4,7,
11,16,17
57:3,5,
10,13,18,
20,22,24
58:1,4,6,
8,17
59:19
61:3
66:13,16,
18 67:2,
7,14 90:3
94:2
98:13
floors
46:9
focus
44:21
54:3
Foerstner
83:7
folder
21:3
22:3,5,7,
12,14,15,
17,20
23:1,3,5,
7,8,12,
16,23,24
24:2,8,
13,15
folders
19:23
20:1
21:7,9,
13,19
folks
15:7
74:13
94:16
forget
33:21
form
11:3,4,7
12:17,19
14:18
15:4
32:23
43:15
65:17
87:3 96:3
99:7
forward
34:13
83:12
found
48:21
foundation
16:19
17:2 55:4
73:15,22,
24 74:2
84:4
free
13:6
Friday
71:4
front
13:20,21
89:10
September 20, 2016

Index: familiar..group
full
75:16
78:2,3,4,
5,10,11
81:19
91:12
96:14,17
99:15,16
full-time
4:24
32:11
40:17
54:19
90:2
97:7,16
gentleman
97:9
get all
42:21
give
3:18,22
47:14
89:18
98:15
future
76:10
G
Gail
88:1,7,8,
15
gallery
29:8
32:13
40:8
50:20
57:5,10,
18,20,24
61:3
Gates
57:18
58:7,11
gather
23:15
gave
7:3 11:17
28:24
83:2
gazed
35:5
general
9:20 15:7
16:6 22:5
23:7
27:12,14
good
36:18
Google
46:22
48:6
Google.com.
45:21
grant
33:16
34:5,10,
13 69:14
granted
34:22
35:15
68:16
90:14
Great
46:20
group
40:7
41:21
42:10
43:7
44:10,13,
15,17
45:2,15,
18 46:4,
21,23
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 116 of 127
47:4,9,
13,15
49:11
50:19
51:1 64:2
65:5
74:11,12,
19 89:15,
21 90:12,
14,15
93:11
98:21
groups
10:13,19,
20 18:21
42:22
43:20
44:20
45:10
46:11
47:7,8,21
48:12,18,
24 49:4,
8,15,21
50:5,10,
14 51:3
54:18,22
57:23
58:3,16,
21 61:5,
9,11
62:1,2,5
63:7
64:12,22
65:9,12
67:15,17
74:13
75:16
78:9
86:15
89:23
93:9,12
95:19,20,
21 96:2,
8,10
guess
37:5
86:17
94:10
guests
63:3
77:14
78:23
80:13,20
81:2
91:16
H
6:9,18,
20,23 7:6
heard
47:12
Heath
68:9
74:20,21
heavy
83:13,18
84:10
85:22
held
4:22
Hall
4:18
helps
44:19
hand
29:10
56:1 59:6
62:19
67:24
77:2 79:5
82:9,24
87:16
92:15
histories
48:7
handed
38:16,18
home-share
83:14,19
84:1,10,
15,21
85:1,6,
18,22
86:8,10,
13,18
handing
69:5
90:23
happen
8:6 99:19
happened
94:9
99:14
hard
41:5
53:15
56:11
Harris
5:8,10,
17,22
history
48:11
hold
5:2
holding
98:15
honored
62:5,6
93:12
99:2
hour
17:19
18:4
hours
38:1
40:11
September 20, 2016

Index: groups..initiated
hunch
47:11
49:6
38:8,11
39:21,23
implementin
g
39:11
inbox
20:7
idea
88:14
95:15
identificat
ion
29:16
55:22
59:4
62:17
67:22
69:3
76:23
79:3
82:7,22
87:14
90:21
include
27:11
29:1 33:7
included
22:5
27:13
includes
13:12
77:8
indication
98:16
indications
49:10
identified
58:2
74:14
indirectly
72:19
73:5
identify
24:4 25:7
31:23
32:4
37:21
44:19
46:21
52:14
53:15
61:15
92:21
individual
40:7
impacted
38:7
individuals
52:15
inform
75:8
informally
70:22
information
44:17
informed
82:13
implement
38:22
41:19
42:1,8,18
implemented
initially
62:2
initiated
37:5
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

input
30:16,18
31:12,15
investigati
ng
50:5
inside
18:1
52:16
involved
31:1,4,7,
9,19
32:18
instances
41:7
54:1,6,10
interacted
79:22
interchange
able
36:15
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 117 of 127
interest
87:1
89:24
involvement
31:21
issue
44:22
87:2
issues
39:17
43:14,21
45:4
J
interested
14:12
interferes
4:2
interfering
3:21
intern
54:22
Internet
48:6
interns
55:1,6
62:4
87:21
88:16,17,
20 89:2,
12,20
90:9,11,
17
introduced
86:2
introducing
84:3
January
35:13,21
36:3
job
4:20,22,
24 5:13,
23 6:7,11
7:14 9:16
13:11
19:18
20:14,21,
24 28:4
31:9
36:9,16
38:5,6,20
76:18
79:18,23
88:7,12
jobs
5:2
jog
47:17
98:1
JROTC
64:5,8
Julia
79:13,16
81:12
89:14,19,
21 90:8
June
19:4,8,13
24:14
25:5,19,
23 26:22
32:2,7,16
33:18,22
34:3,9,20
35:3,7
39:7,24
50:9
51:10
59:7,14,
20 60:10
72:7 73:8
76:2 77:9
79:13
80:3,21,
23 81:2
84:19
85:3,18,
23 86:9
88:21,23
90:5 91:7
98:18,23
jurisdictio
n
46:8
Justin
68:9
74:20
K
kind
15:22
20:22
September 20, 2016

Index: input..legislation
57:6
28:11,17,
18
kinds
9:23
20:11
42:21
large
52:10
largest
51:16
54:14
knew
41:10
knowledge
6:8 20:1
25:9 26:2
30:15
32:15,17
43:5 49:7
51:15
61:1 63:9
68:17,18
69:18
75:12
76:15
78:20
79:20
80:11
85:20
late
58:8
71:11
knowledgeab
le
42:15
lead
74:19
Laurino
88:9
law
7:7,10,
12,13,16
8:2,4,9,
12,16
lawyers
8:14,15,
16 23:16
24:9,19
25:20,24
leading
18:4 34:9
37:4
L
L-a-m-a-r
3:10
leads
74:11,12
lack
85:13
89:4
leave
63:17,21
64:2,23
67:16,17
Lamar
3:3,10
legal
79:21
lamar.
brown@
cityofchica
go.org
40:10
legend
67:10
language
legislation
legislated
83:21,22
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

84:20
85:11
limit
50:19,24
51:2
53:22,24
limited
38:5
limiting
49:16
list
61:11
listed
66:18
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 118 of 127
living
85:12
lobby
15:6,11,
16,19,21
18:3,5
90:3 94:2
98:12,22
locate
44:19
located
15:11,24
location
94:5
long
4:22 8:3
20:3 66:8
looked
46:22
47:15
48:12,18
49:5,8
76:6 93:3
lot
84:16
90:17
M
mad
53:1
made
9:7 34:5,
10 37:12
70:6
71:14
92:1
93:21,23
95:20
magnetomete
rs
16:6
main
17:22
18:14,15
19:12,14
90:2,3
make
10:3,16
12:6,7,9
42:23
52:21,22
67:4 71:5
90:5,7
95:18
makes
33:15
34:4
manner
11:11
Margaret
88:9
marked
29:15
55:21
59:3
62:16
67:21
69:2
76:22
79:2
82:6,21
87:13
90:20
marking
29:10
56:1
62:19
69:5 77:2
79:5
82:24
Mary
74:16
75:4
matter
38:8,21
39:2,6,22
42:2
97:16
mayor
25:15
65:13
84:2,6
Mayor's
10:2,5,9
11:18,23
59:1 61:3
74:6,9
75:5,9
76:6
mayoral
93:13
meaning
85:11
meanings
21:14
means
12:24
60:20
64:17
meant
September 20, 2016

Index: limit..meetings
13:2 22:9
measure
15:8
42:19,20
medication
4:1
meet
7:22 8:1,
3 10:13
meeting
10:12,18
12:5,15
15:3
16:16
17:8,12,
16,19
18:4,6,
12,17,20,
24 19:1,
5,8,13
22:4,18,
21 23:2,
4,6,10
25:19,23
26:5,10
28:6
32:12,16
34:11
38:1,9,
12,19
39:15,18
40:12
46:12
47:1 50:4
51:7,11,
18,22
52:8,11,
12 53:13,
23 54:2,
8,12,16
55:18
56:23
57:13
58:6,22
59:7,14,
20 60:3,
9,22
61:20
62:4,12
63:4,8,14
64:8,11,
14,19
65:1,15,
21 69:12,
16,21
70:6,10
71:6,7,21
72:4,5,8,
10,15
73:3,9,21
74:23
75:23
76:2,8,10
77:10
78:23
79:14
80:3,14
81:3
83:11,12,
21,23
84:19
85:3,18,
23 86:3,
4,9 87:2
88:21,24
91:8 93:5
98:16,19,
23 99:15,
17
meetings
10:1,3,7,
11,22
11:2,17,
20,22
12:1
13:13
18:8
21:10,13,
14,15,16,
20,21
22:1 23:8
800.211.DEPO (3376)
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 119 of 127
LAMAR CARL BROWN

24:14
25:5
26:22
27:2
28:22
32:2,8
33:6,12,
14,18,22
34:4,21
35:3,8,22
36:21
39:8,24
44:5
47:22
48:14
49:5,16
50:9
51:10
53:11
55:2,7
60:11
68:20
72:18
75:19
84:12,18
85:10
99:6,12
member
40:23
members
26:18
42:24
45:13
90:1
96:24
memory
4:2 8:23
47:18
82:12
98:1
mentioned
24:12,20
37:18
99:2
mess
56:13
met
8:8,11
Michelle
5:8 6:18
7:6
mid
71:11
middle
57:6
mind
31:22
83:13
87:7
minute
62:21
minutes
8:5 92:9
mischaracte
rize
44:24
misundersto
od
27:23
moment
96:13,16
97:14
month
27:17
38:18
months
24:7
morning
71:9
move
34:12
57:22
moved
6:23 7:2
78:7
moves
83:12
September 20, 2016

Index: member..ordinances
numbers
90:16
office
5:19
10:3,5,9
11:18,24
59:1 61:3
74:6,9
75:5,9
76:6
O
N
named
23:5
names
45:10
74:1
nature
49:22
75:6
needed
45:2
news
46:3
nominate
6:16
nominated
6:18
Northwester
n
83:7
note
58:17
noted
91:10
number
27:11,16
28:24
29:11
40:9
52:15
53:20
54:14
62:7 76:6
88:19
89:1
oath
3:16
object
11:3
12:17
14:10,18
15:4
16:19
17:1,5
32:23
43:15
55:4
65:17
73:22
84:4 87:3
96:3 99:7
objected
11:7
objecting
74:2
objection
11:4
60:13
61:22
65:23
73:15
occasion
17:10
51:5,8,20
52:6
occur
41:4 82:2
occurred
71:13
81:11,21
occurrence
62:3 70:8
officer
15:2
officers
17:9
72:17
74:3
official
44:6
Officially
53:24
open
57:21
60:5,21
61:2
62:11
83:11
operate
72:17
operates
72:13
opportunity
7:3
order
9:18
41:19
42:8,17
66:24
ordinance
83:24
84:1
85:14
ordinances
84:2
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

organize
10:1
19:20,22
organized
21:7,9,
13,24
overflow
57:22
oversight
5:22 6:8
P
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 120 of 127
P-o-l-a-ce-k
88:2
p.m.
82:17
packed
91:11
paper
25:3
part
21:24
66:12,19
68:7
76:19
83:10
part-time
7:11
pass
12:11
14:7
15:1,16,
18,22
38:15
72:14
passed
39:12,15
past
13:23
45:8
75:11
79:23
86:5
98:14,22
99:2,5
100:2,10,
17,19
pay
7:16
people's
38:6
people
9:14
11:1,24
25:14
26:15,16,
24 32:14
37:19
42:21,24
44:4
51:6,11,
17,21
52:7,12
53:4,5,8,
13,16,17
55:12,17
58:5,16
61:18,19
62:1,6,
10,12
64:18,22
66:11,17,
24 68:19
69:15,19
72:3,8,
14,20
73:6,14,
17,19,24
74:2,23
75:1,9
76:7
78:19
86:1,7,
11,20,23
87:20
88:11
92:6
94:18
95:1,12,
24 96:24
97:19,20
perform
9:24
period
33:18
permanent
28:2
permitted
28:3,9,12
person
32:21
33:4,10
34:10
41:10
57:23
60:8,21
61:5 63:6
73:12
74:17
93:3
94:24
personally
17:15
26:4,9
100:16
pertain
24:13
pertaining
64:24
pertains
38:20
September 20, 2016

Index: organize..position
40:9
photo
25:10,11,
13 65:10,
11,13,16,
22 66:4,
5,9 74:15
phrased
87:6
15:2 17:9
43:9 46:5
72:12,23
73:4,13,
20 74:3,
8,21
75:2,8
76:5 95:5
policies
27:1 32:6
pictures
25:15
place
17:20
43:19
44:3
55:13
places
63:16,19
play
95:7
played
92:23
95:10,16
97:5 98:3
plenty
97:7
point
13:22
14:3,4,8,
11,24
15:1
16:6,9,
10,11,16,
18 17:7,
11 18:24
90:4 94:3
99:16
Peter
88:2,14
89:11,19
90:6
Polacek
88:2,14
89:5,19
phone
police
14:4,8
policy
29:13
30:13,16
31:19,24
33:21
34:14,16,
21 35:2,
9,13,17,
24 36:5,
10,14,20,
23 37:1,
3,12,17,
22 38:11,
15 39:11
40:14,15
41:16,20
42:2,4,9,
18 43:22,
24 50:8
68:10
70:14
portion
34:9
35:12
pose
45:12
46:4
posed
42:23
46:1,11
posing
46:23
position
6:23
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

Posse
57:18
58:7,11
potential
43:13
45:4
84:19
practical
38:7,21
39:2,5,22
42:2
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 121 of 127
practice
15:7
20:2,5
34:22
36:12,14
72:22
86:23
practices
32:1,7
predecessor
37:2
prefaced
53:10
prefer
28:19
Preparation
12:6
prepare
7:19 8:4
12:6
prepared
56:20
preparing
7:22 8:20
99:11
president
88:8
press
10:2
12:9,10
17:13
94:7,9,15
pretty
4:4 78:8
previously
76:7
89:14
primarily
32:21
33:5
primary
94:15
prior
9:13
24:20
36:19,24
37:17
38:17
40:14
43:22,23
44:2
49:14,17,
23 50:7
53:21
70:14
84:12,18
85:8
pro
88:8
presence
83:13,18
84:10,24
85:22
problem
12:19
35:6
52:20
69:23
present
8:11
problems
39:10
procedure
9:19
72:23
100:8
process
32:19
43:3,12,
19 44:3,
6,7,9
86:3
99:21,24
100:7,13
produced
92:13
September 20, 2016

Index: Posse..reading
7,12,13,
16
pursuant
9:19
push
78:14
pushed
78:12
put
58:16
Q
projector
92:17
quantity
52:3
pronunciati
on
77:18
question
4:5,8,9,
13,14
11:5,6,
10,15
12:19
13:4,8
14:3,13,
17,20,21
16:22
17:5
21:19
22:11
27:23
28:7,8
31:22
32:3 33:2
34:17
35:4,19
36:18
40:19,20
43:17
44:1
51:19
52:21
55:14
57:2
60:15,17
61:1,13
provide
23:16,22
24:3
25:20,21,
24 91:15
provided
24:1,9,19
25:10
91:21
public
9:20
26:18
27:12,15
29:12
32:1,6
36:19
40:17
42:22,24
45:13,15
57:23
60:4
83:11
90:2
96:13,15,
23 97:1,
65:18,20
66:20
72:7 76:2
81:16
86:17
87:5
88:22
90:4,6
93:2
94:10
99:9
questions
4:4 20:16
26:15,17
29:20
31:18,20
52:19
62:23
68:3
92:15
95:9
100:22
R
radios
12:7
Ramirezrosa
91:7
Ramirezrosa's
91:16
range
53:7
Rarely
18:5
read
76:11,12
87:8
100:23
reading
79:8 87:7
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

ready
12:11
62:23
69:7,8
realized
78:3 90:5
rearranged
78:15,18
81:7
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 122 of 127
reason
39:5 45:2
80:16
86:18,21
94:14
95:24
96:10
68:4 77:5
79:7,10
83:4
87:17
91:3
98:5,8
recollectio
n
88:19,24
reconcile
78:4
record
70:2
76:12
87:8
92:21
reasonable
53:6
records
48:10
Reboyras
77:9,13,
17 81:8,
15 82:13
refer
16:4
28:11,13,
15,16
67:2
recall
18:19
52:6 70:4
75:2 93:5
receive
33:13
received
43:7 82:2
recent
50:3
recently
7:2
recess
46:17
70:1
92:11
recognize
56:3 59:8
62:24
reference
61:9
95:18,20
referenced
23:12
39:21
57:5 82:1
93:8
referencing
22:7
96:7,10
referring
50:8 85:9
reflect
71:17,22
refresh
8:22
82:12
regard
32:1
90:17
regular
62:3
September 20, 2016

Index: ready..reservations
23
research
50:10,14
remind
48:12
reiterate
11:13
13:6
repeat
32:3
35:4,18
55:14
88:22
relate
25:4
rephrase
35:20
related
8:23
25:19,22
84:20
reporter
76:13
87:9
remain
18:15
remaining
29:4
remember
16:21
17:17
19:3,5,6,
7,16
23:20
24:10
26:20
30:5,8
46:22
47:2,16,
24 48:1
50:4,5,
13,16
51:12,14,
16 53:12
54:15
55:19
58:14
71:24
73:3,7,10
76:1,3
85:24
87:7
90:16
91:17,19,
request
44:11
55:15
68:15
80:9
81:13
91:5 92:1
requested
10:13,21
12:10
41:22
43:4,20
47:4,21
50:11,14
68:12
69:11
70:16
requesting
43:7 44:4
45:3
48:24
49:16
80:2
90:10
requests
33:13
55:10
70:5,9
71:12,23
researched
49:21
researching
48:24
49:15
reservation
32:18
33:16
34:6,19
55:17
60:10
70:16
81:12
86:19
89:22
reservation
s
28:20,22
29:2,5,8
32:14,22
33:6,11,
14 34:22
35:3,10,
14,24
36:6,11,
24 37:6,
13,20
41:16,22
42:4,9
43:4,8,
14,21
44:4 45:3
46:24
47:21
49:1
50:11,15
51:18
52:8,13
53:14,16,
17 54:15
55:11,12,
16 69:14
70:5,9,23
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

71:3,13,
18 78:16
82:14
83:8
86:5,24
88:15
92:6
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 123 of 127
reserve
34:11
40:7,17
41:1,7
47:4
48:13,19
49:5,9
56:18
77:16,20,
21 80:20
89:11,23
reserved
26:14,15
27:17,24
32:11
39:6 47:4
48:13
52:16
53:23
54:3,8,
11,24
55:1,7,9
56:2,6,9,
15 57:10,
12 58:4
59:11,19
60:2,20
61:12,14,
16 66:13,
15,17
67:1
68:11
69:12,19
76:9
78:22
80:2,5
81:1
85:17
87:20
88:20
89:1 90:1
91:5
95:21
96:24
97:20
reserves
50:18
reserving
41:13
42:10
resolution
63:17,22
64:1,5,24
67:16,18
91:14
93:9,11,
13 95:18,
20 96:2,
7,10
resolutions
12:12
93:14
99:1
respond
92:3
94:18,20
response
9:7 81:5
91:10,22
responsibil
ity
33:7,8
responsible
33:5,10
99:22
100:2
rest
90:12,13
restate
11:10
14:21
22:10
28:8
40:19
43:17
44:1
60:15
97:2 99:9
restroom
46:13
69:22
results
48:21
retaining
20:2,5
review
8:19
ride-share
83:14,18,
24 84:10,
14,15,20,
24 85:6,
10,18,22
86:8,10,
13,18
right-hand
63:18
64:14
risk
46:24
47:10
Rodriguez
69:10,11,
15,20
role
94:16
rule
41:23,24
rules
5:18,20
9:18
September 20, 2016

Index: reserve..seating
S
safe
4:8
safety
15:8
42:19,20
SAITH
100:24
sat
78:23
scatter
78:9
schedule
10:2
scheduled
12:10
38:1
40:11
Scholars
57:18,19
58:7,11,
12
school
7:10,13,
17
screen
15:7
screening
43:13,20
44:3,18
45:8
seat
32:18,22
33:5,11,
16 34:5,
11,22
35:2,9,
14,24
36:5,11,
24 37:6,
12 41:8,
13,16,22
42:4,9
43:4,8,
13,21
44:4,20
45:3
46:24
47:21
49:1
50:11,14,
19,21
51:1,4,18
52:8,13
54:14
55:11,12,
16 60:11,
20 61:2,
6,8 69:14
70:5,9
71:13
80:6
88:15
89:24
92:6
seated
58:13
64:18
67:6,7,13
seating
10:4,6,10
22:6
23:14
24:6,11,
13,20
27:1
28:2,3,5,
9,12,14,
19,21
29:2,5,7,
12 32:1,6
33:13
34:16
36:20
39:17
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 124 of 127
41:15,20
52:17
56:2,6,12
57:21
58:18,22
59:7,11
60:18
61:4,9,12
71:6,14,
17 73:21
78:15,18
79:13
83:8
87:20
91:6
96:13,15,
23 97:17
seats
12:2
26:9,14,
15 27:4,
7,10,11,
13,14,17,
20,24
28:12
29:1,4
32:9,10,
12 37:19
39:6
40:8,18
41:2
42:11
44:11
47:4,5
48:13,19
49:9 50:6
53:20,23
54:2,7,
11,24
55:2,7
56:9,14,
18 57:10,
12 59:18
60:2,3,6,
19 61:13,
15,21
62:11
66:11,15,
17 67:1
68:11,12,
16,19
69:11,19,
20 72:19,
24 73:6,
14 74:9,
22 75:3,
16,20,24
76:9
77:9,13,
16,20,22
78:6,7,
12,13,14,
21,23
80:2,6,
10,20
81:2,7
82:14
83:11
85:17
88:20
89:1,6,
15,18
90:1,7,8,
10,14
91:7,15
92:1
94:16
95:22,24
96:1,11,
24 97:12,
13,15,20
99:23
100:9,18
16:3
43:4,10,
14,21
44:3,18,
22 45:4,
8,22
46:11,24
47:10
72:14,18
99:22
sees
100:9
sentence
40:3
separate
20:18
sergeantat-arms
4:21 5:3,
14,23
6:12,24
7:14 9:17
12:9
30:20
31:5
36:10
37:11
38:24
43:8
46:7,10
50:18,24
sergeantat-arms'
5:19
sections
78:11
set
12:10
32:10,13
37:19
70:22
88:19
89:1
security
15:22
shared
33:8
section
40:2,6
50:17
67:10
September 20, 2016

Index: seats..special
sheet
67:12
shot
51:3 98:9
show
48:11
92:14
97:24
sic
28:3
sign
100:23
signed
29:13
30:3
signs
98:15
16:19
17:4
20:13
24:22
32:23
38:10
43:15
55:4
60:13
61:22
65:17,23
73:15,22
74:1
76:11
80:21
84:4 87:3
96:3 99:7
100:23
sole
33:7
89:24
similar
56:22
someplace
21:3
sir
12:24
sort
28:10
35:5
36:14
71:22
72:22
78:12
sit
53:4
55:13
60:6
sitting
89:21
situate
92:18
size
50:19
51:1,2,6,
10
slated
67:6
SOBOTA
11:3,6
12:17,20
14:10,14,
18 15:4
spaces
56:10
89:11
90:6
span
24:6,7
speak
49:22
70:15
72:13
speaking
54:18
special
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

20:1
specific
21:10
52:15
75:1
specificall
y
23:1,3
24:4,15
43:1 61:7
84:15
85:7
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 125 of 127
specifics
45:7
speculate
4:12 38:6
52:5
88:10
94:13
83:1
87:17
90:24
92:22
standing
28:14,19,
21 29:2,
5,7 53:17
step
94:6,14
table
63:19
64:8
stop
95:8
tables
65:4
store
20:9,12,
20 21:2
taking
37:18
40:14
44:2
49:17
53:21
70:14
stands
61:4
Starks
6:6,7
30:21
31:2,3,11
spell
3:8
state
3:8 83:10
spent
65:15,22
stated
34:14
50:7
97:14
statement
50:17
statements
93:22,23
staffed
14:8 15:2
stating
78:10
staffers
9:20
station
15:22
16:2,3
72:13
stamped
62:20
68:1 69:6
77:3 79:6
82:10
stationed
14:2,4
16:7,15,
stored
20:7
21:23
student
7:7,12
subfolder
22:15
substance
83:20
84:14
suggesting
94:22
97:10
supervisor
6:1,2,4
support
85:13
supporters
83:14,19
84:11
85:1,5,6,
19,23
86:1,10,
13,18
swept
12:7
sworn
termed
23:6
terms
36:15
54:18
stay
99:6
speculation
60:13
61:22
staff
61:3 75:5
76:5 88:8
91:6
3:2,5
9:10
standard
36:12,14
start
17:18
18:9
43:23
64:11,19
99:3
spoken
74:8
18 17:7,
18,21
18:11
19:7,10
September 20, 2016

Index: specific..time
testified
3:5 9:14
testifying
3:15
testimony
11:17
Thayer
92:22
98:2
thereof
85:14
talk
9:13
28:17,18
33:17
52:24
thing
12:18
32:16
73:8
92:17
talked
74:3
things
10:17
12:12
talking
9:6 16:12
28:5
37:16
39:1
49:15
thought
88:11
threat
45:12,15
46:1,4,12
taxicab
84:16
threw
90:12
Technically
7:11
time
5:11 6:19
7:1,2
17:21
20:3
23:15,21
29:19,24
33:16,17
34:19,20
36:9,18
temp
88:9
tenure
37:4
term
28:4 89:4
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

37:4,10
38:22
46:14
52:24
56:11,24
58:10
61:7
63:10
64:4,11
65:14,22
69:23
70:24
79:9
94:5,6,9
97:17
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 126 of 127
times
57:21
65:8
timestamped
87:24
title
4:20
titled
29:12
56:2
today
3:23 7:20
8:6 81:20
told
78:5
80:12
89:11,14
97:12
ton
18:21
top
63:19
83:10
TOPIC
3:7 11:4,
12 12:18,
22 14:12,
16,19
15:10
16:20
17:6
20:15
24:23
29:17
33:1
38:13
43:18
46:18
55:5,23
59:5
60:16
62:9,18
65:19
66:3
67:23
69:4
70:2,3
73:18,23
74:7
76:16
77:1 79:4
80:22
82:8,23
84:8
87:6,15
90:22
92:8,12
93:1
95:11,17
96:6 97:6
98:4
99:10
100:21
topmost
64:13
66:12,19
total
27:4,7,13
29:1
54:19,20,
21 80:9
88:19
track
67:11
train
46:10
trained
37:2
training
45:22
Trevino
91:22
true
49:18
51:24
turn
87:23
turned
55:10,15
two-week
39:20
typically
17:20
18:8,11,
15,18
20:4,7
28:11
51:2 53:5
63:13
71:5,8,11
78:8
84:15
91:24
92:2,4,5
99:19
U
Uber
84:16
85:11,12
Uh-huh
33:20
50:22
September 20, 2016

Index: times..violent
53:9 54:5
63:20
upfront
11:14
unable
80:13
Urbina
74:16
understand
3:15,18
4:5,15
11:6,8,15
13:2,7
14:17,20
21:20
22:24
23:11
28:10
31:18
33:2
44:21
53:3
63:17,24
64:10
89:7
Urbinamccarthy
75:4
V
vacant
100:9
vague
11:7
version
30:6
versus
34:1
undertaken
45:7
video
92:23
93:3,6,8,
15,17,19,
22,24
94:19
95:1,7,
10,16,19
96:14,21
97:5,10,
14,23
98:3,6,8
University
83:7
videos
92:13
unofficial
44:7,9
view
60:4
unreserved
56:12
Villegas
68:11
update
71:17,19,
20
violent
46:4,23
47:9
49:11
understandi
ng
41:15
57:16
88:18
89:5
understood
4:9 80:7
updated
71:22
800.211.DEPO (3376)
LAMAR CARL BROWN

visit
17:10
website
40:16
visitors
50:19
51:1
Wednesday
91:11
voice
85:13
volunteer
7:3,4
volunteered
7:1
W
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 127 of 127
wait
58:9
waiting
11:1 12:1
17:16
26:5
51:6,11,
17,21
52:7,12,
15 53:13
58:6
61:19
62:12
72:9,20
73:6
74:23
75:9
78:19
95:13
weeks
30:2
37:24
40:11
whomever
44:11
99:22
September 20, 2016

Index: visit..Yesterday
Y
year
7:10,12
years
4:23 5:12
Yesterday
8:10
wishing
40:7
withdraw
81:16
word
12:23
work
4:17,18
5:9,16
6:20
10:2,5,9
12:13
20:17
47:20
worked
5:5 11:18
22:18
working
13:12
60:18
wanted
15:14
written
36:19
38:11
Ward
88:9
wrong
11:5
watched
98:6
wrote
57:17
wearing
98:15
800.211.DEPO (3376)
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 1
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
Exhibit G
C000437
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 1
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
Exhibit H
C000438
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 1
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
Exhibit I
C000488
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
CALENDAR: 07
PAGE 1 of 2
CIRCUIT COURT OF
CHANCERY DIVISION
CLERK DOROTHY BROWN
STATE OF ILLINOIS )
)SS.
COUNTY OF COOK )
I, SUSANA A. MENDOZA,City Clerk of the City of Chicago, in the County of Cook and
State ofIllinois, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the annexed and foregoing is a true and correct copy
of that resolution now on file in my office regarding Amendment of City Council Rules of Order
and Procedure by adding new Rule 58 to allow public participation at any committee meetingopen
to public under Open Meetin sg Act, which resolution was adopted by the City of Chicago at its
regular meeting held on the fifth (Sth~v of October, 2016.
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that the original, of which the foregoing is a true and correct
copy, is entrusted to my care for safekeeping, and that I am the lawful keeper of the same.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my

hand and affixed the corporate seal ofthe said City of
Chicago aforesaid, at the said City,in the County and
State aforesaid, this fifth(5th)day of October, 2016.
[T. P.]
_____~v~~~.-- ..
SUSANA A. MENDOZA,City Jerk
Exhibit J
C000489
SUBSTITUTE
RESOLUTION
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CHICAGO

The Rules of Order and Procedure of the City Council of the City of Chicago for the 2015
- 2019 term are hereby amended by adding a new Rule 58, as follows:
Public Participation
RULE 58.
Any member of the general public may address orally or in writing any committee
of the City Council at any meeting required to be open to the public under the Open Meetings
Act (5 ILCS 120/1, et seq.). Any such person who orally addresses a committee of the City
Council shall:
10/11/2016 12:29 PM
2016-CH-09212
PAGE 2 of 2
(1) be physically present inside the assembly room where the committee's meeting
takes place and submit a request to testify;
(2) limit his or her remarks to three minutes;
(3) limit his or her remarks to the subject matter appearing on the agenda of the
meeting;
(4) refrain from profane language, obscene conduct,, or disruptive comments; and
(5) comply with the order of the Chairman of the committee meeting.
The committee Chairman has authority and discretion to: (i) curtail or limit public
comment if the witness fails to comply with this Rule, and (ii) allow reasonable variances from
the three-minute time limit in appropriate, non-discriminatory, circumstances.
.-`;
r~ ,h~
dward M. urke
Alderman, 14th Ward
Q~~
Michelle A. Harris
Alderman, 8th Ward
C000490
Chancery DIVISION
Litigant List
Printed on 10/11/2016
Case Number: 2016-CH-09212
Page 1 of 1
Plaintiffs
Plaintiffs Name
Plaintiffs Address
State Zip
Unit #
THAYER ANDREW
0000
GARCIA RICK
0000
Total Plaintiffs: 2
Defendants
Defendant Name
CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL
Defendant Address
State
Unit #
Service By
0000
Total Defendants: 1

Plaintiffs' Reply ISO Their Amended Motion For PI

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Plaintiffs' Reply ISO Their Amended Motion For PI

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E-Notice

NOTICE OF ELECTRONIC FILING

CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT

PLAINTIFFS REPLY IN SUPPORT OF THEIR AMENDED MOTION FOR

A. Defendant Misstates The Specific Preliminary Injunction Standards In OMA Cases

Def. Opp. at 4-6.

Defendant Incorrectly Defines Open Meeting Requirements And

In addition, the Appellate Court has held that meetings can be

For example, giving

Preferential Seat Reservations Are Not Permitted To The Exclusion

Rather, giving preferential admission to certain groups or people

violates OMA. Gerwin 345 Ill. App. 3d at 358.

Defendants New Seating Policy Is Inadequate

violated the statute and (2) the plaintiff has standing.).

Defendants already formidable burden is intensified where, as here, the

OMA Guarantees The Public The Right To Address Public

OMA Section 2.06(g) states:

Defendants New Public Comment Policy Violates OMA

Thus Plaintiffs have a protectable right in seeking relief for

Defendants violations of OMA at both the May 18 and June 22 meetings.

Irreparable Harm And No Adequate Remedy At Law

Attorneys for Plaintiffs

2 COUNTY DEPARTMENT - CHANCERY DIVISION

September 21, 2016

10 CORPORATION COUNSEL, CITY OF CHICAGO,

September 21, 2016

1 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly

23 know I've given them before, but I don't really

September 21, 2016

1 Q. And the civil rights suit you mentioned,

10 ability to give complete and accurate testimony?

September 21, 2016

1 as a representative of the Chicago City Council

10 stuff like that.

September 21, 2016

1 A. No, I don't recall.

10 work security with the White Sox and United Center,

September 21, 2016

10 Q. And who came and asked you?

September 21, 2016

September 21, 2016

10 A. You could find me in the City Council

September 21, 2016

10 no problems that's gonna affect the City Council

September 21, 2016

10 going to do a press conference, the same thing. So

September 21, 2016

1 basically, they can be loud, they can be noisy,

September 21, 2016

1 A. He's an activist that has been coming to

10 Q. What have your experiences with him

September 21, 2016

10 Q. So do you know Andy Thayer to be a

September 21, 2016

1 Andy Thayer in the June meeting, I heard.

September 21, 2016

10 A. Yes, I think several police officers

September 21, 2016

10 to get into the meeting, why can't he get into the

September 21, 2016

1 o'clock -- no, about 11:00 o'clock. It was about

September 21, 2016

10 trying to get people into the meeting.