DISCUSSION REPORT OF PHILOSOPHY OF

RELIGION

General Information:
Interviewer: Martinus Adrian Siswanto / 34414016 (Students Number) /
Catholic Ortodox
Interviewee: Ishak Arifin, 19 years old college student from Surabaya who
believe in Budhism.
Location and date/time of discussion: McDonalds Manyar Surabaya /
19:00PM 15 MAY 2015

Discussions General Description:

We discuss religion pleasantly while eating in McDonalds at Manyar
Surabaya. With phone recording, every single thought of him is well
recorded and saved. The discussion started with my friends explanation
and opinion about Buddhism and as well as Buddha in general. In after I
try to criticize more about Buddhism using the argument that has been
represented in the class. However, my friend tries to answer that with his
knowledge that was based on one of the monks in Surabaya. At the
middle of the discussion, he expereinced some confusion in his religion
although still convince that Buddha is right.

Discussion Content
Firstly my friend who named Ishak is coming from Buddha family
with Mahayana denomination. He was born in Buddhist family and was
learned Buddha since elementary school, so he has quite a deep
knowledge of Buddhism.
Starting the discussion, I begin with asking him one of the fundamental
questions that will lead the content of this discussion. Why Buddha? At
first glance, his answer, of course pointing out the fact that Buddha is
inherited in his family. But I try to re-ask him to get a better explanation. I
turned out asking: What is so special about Buddha compare to other
religion?.
Trying to answer those question, my friend with serious tone answer
approximately like this: Buddha is the main character of Buddhism
philosophy. He begin living like a king, treated like a prince, but prefer to
leave all the comfort. Buddha also emphasizes on how important love and
kind to everybody.
Then I replied: So do you think other religion like Islam and
Christianity dont teach love and kind?. After thinking a while, he
answered that Buddha is more than ordinary religion. It tends to
philosophy teaching rather than religion, and Buddha doesnt emphasize
on God like other religions. He also added that Buddha himself never
forcing his followers to worship God, and also not forcing them not to pray.
After hearing his explanation, I try to ask is that true that Buddha
himself, Siddartha Gautama, never believe in God or Holy God? And he
seems already knew that Buddha is alike with Atheism from his response.
He admits that Buddha never claimed there is a God who creates the
universe and its existence. But according to him, Buddha also never forbid
his followers to worship any gods.
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Buddha also states if there is one creature rule the universe, has the
power to stop all evil that happens in it but let it happen, then the
creature was responsible for all these crimes. For that reason, Siddartha
Gautama prefers to solve the number one problem: suffering, rather than
debating and seeking the prima causa of the universe.
He added that Buddhism was designed to release suffering in Earth,
not to answer the beginning of the existence. Rather than depends on
God, he said that Buddhism rely on its own individual. Every individual
should be able to independent and not rely on anything including God.
After I heard a lot on his explanation about the divinity of God, I
begin to ask him with one simple question: What is the source of Truth, if
there is no God, in Buddhism?. I also ask why suffering problems is more
important than seeking the true creator of our universe.
He replied it with a very simple answer: if as long as your life is not
parasitizing other. You will get good karma and your chance to rebirth in
better form is higher. There is also several criterias about what
livelihood should be avoided; such as fraud, unloyalty, necromancy,
cheating, and high loan interest. He also implied that suffering is more
important issues as we always bounded with suffers in daily life.
Not satisfied enough with his explanation, I try to response again
with what is the example of suffering. Then he begins to explain sufferings
one by one according to what he has taught by his parents and monk.
Basically he explains that sufferings are the main element of Empat
Kebenaran Mulia or Four Noble Truth. The first truth is that human lived
and born bounded with a suffer. Living in whatever form and condition is
suffering. Not get what you want is also suffering. He pointed out that
suffering is always bothered human, and the goal of Buddhism is get away
from it.
The second noble truth is the source of sufferings. He implied that
the ultimate source of suffering was endless lust of human. He gives the
analogy like thirsty people try to drink salt water to end the thirsty. Not
solving the problem, even the thirsty get more since salt water is salted.

The third noble truth is the disappearance of suffering. The

disappearance of suffering is only can be found in Nibbana, which
described as a place with no suffering and pain. He stated that Nibbana
means padam. Padam in context of greediness, hatred, and inner
darkness.
And finally the fourth noble truth that he implied as last, The Path to
the Cessation of Suffering. He said the path of this was called Noble
Eightfold Path or Jalan Mulia Berunsur Delapan in Indonesia. In sum up,
he said you must do a good karma to lead from Samsara to Nibbana. Good
karma is consist of right remark, right livelihood, right act.
After listen on his detailed explanation, I try to make a response and
end up asking: Why you believe there is heaven (Nibbana) if there is no
God or Creature? Would you think that the universe is coming from
nothing?.
Because my question is quite hard, I give him sometimes to think
about it. And suddenly my friend is confused about his own religion and
cannot answer clearly and logically. He only said that it is what he knew
about Buddhism, rather than he requested me to meet and ask monk
personally to that question because he dont know.
Enough with striking him with one critical question, I begin to ask
more about rebirth and what majority Buddhist pray for even without God.
I am also asking about Kwan Im that usually worshiped by Buddhist.
He implied that Kwan Im is the example of a bodhisattva, who has
been successfully reached the highest degree in Buddhism. Many people
including him pray to Kwan Im to get clue and inspiration so later on he
could also reach the highest enlightenment in Buddhism. Although that,
he said that praying towards it doesnt necessarily mean that Kwan Im is
God like Christianity worshiping Jesus.
And he also explains about rebirth in Buddhism is never ending
cycle of human birth. Just like cells where the new cells always replace the
old cells. He implies thats how rebirth worked in a simpler way. The
differences with reincarnation are that rebirth not acknowledge the
transfer of the soul to one another body.
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After that, I ask something: What was the point of life if you know
that you are gonna live again tomorrow?. Interestingly he said again that
the

purpose

of

Buddhism

is

reached

the

highest

enlightenment,

bodhisattva, so we can finish the rebirth process and released from

suffering.
At the end of the discussion, we can still discuss one more topic that
is the differences of many denominations of Buddhism especially that
common in Indonesia like Theravada and Mahayana.
After asking that, he responded that there are only minor differences
between Theravada and Mahayana as far as he knows. He said that if
Theravada, Nibbana is the final goal. While in the other hand, Mahayana
acknowledges that Nirwana, higher than Nibbana, is the highest goal.

Aside from that, he said that Theravada taught the way through
Nibbana is through Savaka Boddhi. While his denomination, Mahayana, is
taught the way through Nibbana is from bodhisattva like Buddha and
Kwan Im.
That is the last question of what I can ask and argue with him. After
answering my last question, the discussion was finished because he has
something to do outside. In conclusion, Buddha is more way of philosophy
teaching rather than religion and taught people to release suffering.
Buddha admits if there is heaven, but there is no God as the creator of the
universe.