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Number of Nodes is less than Number of Elements

hs.simanto

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08-16-2014 12:58 PM
Hi!

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As we know Prior to running an analysis, the geometry is broken up into small pieces called elements. The corner of
each element is a node. The calculation is performed at the nodes. These elements and nodes make up the mesh.
I have found on several cases that node number is less than element number...

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Is it possible that in any case node numbers will be less than of element numbers??
Thanks!

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As your example points out, models with lower element counts tend to not support our rule of thumb of 5 elements
per node. The ve to one ratio is more appropriate for meshes containing million of elements. In your coarse
model, if mesh enhancement is turned on, the you are generating a fair number of 6 node wedge elements, which
results in a lower element to node ratio. So, I amend my earilier statement -The node to element ratio is a function
of element types employed and the surface area to volume ratio of the geometry meshed. Tetrahedral elements
usually lead to a 5 to 1 element to node ratio. Hexahedral elements have a more equal element to node count. If
mesh enhancement is enabled, 6-node wedge elements will populate the boundary layer of your uid region.
Wedge element also will lower your element to node ratio.

Over the years we have developed a mesh count estimator. This is used to populate the "Approximate element
count:" item on the screen you showed. But, this estimate is very approximate. Years ago, I plotted Actual
elementsversus Estimated element in a x-y plot for many models. As you might expect that was a fair amount of
scatter away from the slope = 1 line.

To answer to your question, "Is it possible to nd the exact number of nodes of those approximate element count
apart from any ratio?". The answer is no. Nodal estimate would probably have the same error bounds as the
element estimator. Improvements in node count estimation could be had, if one could estimate the types of
element being used everywhere in the model. This can be done to some degree of accuracy in the boundary layer
meshing zones, but in general, this is dicult to do.

Dave.
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Re: Number of Nodes is less than Number of Elements

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08-17-2014 09:25 AM in reply to: hs.simanto

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The node to element ratio is a function of element types employed and the surface area to volume ratio of the
geometry meshed. Tetrahedral elements usually lead to a 5 to 1 element to node ratio. Hexahedral elements have a
more equal element to node count.

Dave.

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hs.simanto

Re: Number of Nodes is less than Number of Elements

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08-17-2014 10:45 AM in reply to: waited

Hi Dave!
Thanks for your reply!
For the situation like in the picture below, Approximate element count is 4470
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And after generating the mesh

1365 Total Nodes, 650 Fluid Nodes , 715 Solid Nodes
4985 Total Elements, 1597 Fluid Elements , 3388 Solid Elements

From these results, how can i get approximate node count if the "1365 total node" is representing " 5 to 1 element to
node ratio " ?
Is it possible to nd the exact number of nodes of those approximate element count apart from any ratio?
Thanks :)
Simanto
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08-17-2014 12:44 PM in reply to: hs.simanto

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As your example points out, models with lower element counts tend to not support our rule of thumb of 5 elements
per node. The ve to one ratio is more appropriate for meshes containing million of elements. In your coarse model, if
mesh enhancement is turned on, the you are generating a fair number of 6 node wedge elements, which results in a
lower element to node ratio. So, I amend my earilier statement -The node to element ratio is a function of element
types employed and the surface area to volume ratio of the geometry meshed. Tetrahedral elements usually lead to a 5
to 1 element to node ratio. Hexahedral elements have a more equal element to node count. If mesh enhancement is
enabled, 6-node wedge elements will populate the boundary layer of your uid region. Wedge element also will lower
your element to node ratio.

Over the years we have developed a mesh count estimator. This is used to populate the "Approximate element count:"
item on the screen you showed. But, this estimate is very approximate. Years ago, I plotted Actual elementsversus
Estimated element in a x-y plot for many models. As you might expect that was a fair amount of scatter away from the
slope = 1 line.

To answer to your question, "Is it possible to nd the exact number of nodes of those approximate element count apart
from any ratio?". The answer is no. Nodal estimate would probably have the same error bounds as the element
estimator. Improvements in node count estimation could be had, if one could estimate the types of element being used
everywhere in the model. This can be done to some degree of accuracy in the boundary layer meshing zones, but in
general, this is dicult to do.

Dave.
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hs.simanto

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08-17-2014 01:35 PM in reply to: waited

Thanks for your help! :}
Simanto
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