CR4 - Thread: CS flange and SS flange connection http://cr4.globalspec.

com/thread/24411/CS-flange-and-SS-flange-connection

News & Products & Standards Reference Engineering Stay

Home Fr
Analysis Suppliers Library Library Community Informed

Community Search Community GO

Acquired E

CR4 - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion

Login | Register for Engineering Com

Previous in Forum: tesile test of material Next in Forum: details need about hot forging and cold forging

Anonymous CS flange and SS flange connection

Poster 07/23/2008 5:03 AM

Hello

For CS flange and SS flange connection, what kind of bolts and nuts and gasket are suitable for corrosive
gas (High CO2 contents) so as to do gas liquid seperation. Pls advise.

Thanks & regards,

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to

this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Join CR4, The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion!

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

#4 "Re: CS flange and SS flange connection" by Kev_brown on 07/24/2008 5:32 AM (score 5)

PWSlack Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Guru 07/23/2008 5:28 AM

What does the end Client's P&ID and piping standards have to say on the subject?

Er, nuts, bolts and gaskets don't do gas liquid separation without being assembled onto a piece of process
equipment....

Join Date: Jan 2007

__________________
Location: In the bothy, 7 "Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Sha
chains down the line from
Dodman's Lane level
crossing, in the nation
formerly known as Great
Britain, and now
disconnecting as Little
England and Wales (not
too sure about Wales bit,
either). Kettle's on.
Posts: 25377
Good Answers: 659

Anonymous Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Poster 07/24/2008 1:18 AM

AT PIPING, SS304 MATERIAL

AT SEPERATOR (VESSEL) , CS MATERIAL

FOR PIPING, WE SHOULD USE SS FLANGE AND

FOR FLANGE OF NOZZLE OF VESSEL , CS FLANGE.

PLEASE EXPLAIN DISSIMILAR MATERIAL JOINING TOGETHER, WHAT WILL HAPPEN AT CS FLANGE? IT
WOULD BE SPOILED EASILY WHEN WE USE SS B&N&GASKET?

1 of 5 27/01/2017 9:32 AM
CR4 - Thread: CS flange and SS flange connection http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/24411/CS-flange-and-SS-flange-connection

Anonymous Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Poster 07/28/2008 6:34 AM

The problem that you may face is Galvanic Corrosion on Carbon Steel. This can be an issue both for itnernal
and/or external surfaces.

Internal: It depends on the fluid, if it's a good electrolyte (water, seawater...) then it's higly probable that
you'll have corrosion on carbon steel. If the fluid is not a electrolyte then you'll not have to worry.

External: It depends on the exposure, if it's in marine environemnts with humidity condernsation then the
possbiility are higher, if it's a dry environments (desert..) then it will be less probable.

The best thing you can do is to use isolating bolts and nuts.

this MIL standard is a good guidelines:

galvanic corrosion

http://assist.daps.dla.mil/docimages/A/0000/0003/6032/000000032288_000000015001_
PKLGEPJMJZ.PDF?CFID=7257773&CFTOKEN=2528239cb5c45406-EC7E556F-1372-548A-D39AA0E1
5882BE4C&jsessionid=0630f1225e5462258126

S.

corrosion prevention | corrosion control

Anonymous Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Poster 07/24/2008 12:37 AM

It is best to use SS bolts/nuts with SS washers

Kev_brown Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Power-User 07/24/2008 5:32 AM

Guest,

When you are assembling a flanged joint you are essentially attempting to make a perfect seal so that the
medium passing through the pipe does not escape. Therefore the whole system needs to be taken into
account to determine the materials required for the bolts, nuts and gasket.

I work for Hydratight and we provide a free online bolt load calculation program by the name of Boltup.
From using this it will give you an indication of what materials you can use.

Typically, for a CS flange we would use CS bolts/nuts and similarly for a SS flange we would use SS
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: England
bolts/nuts. the most commonly used grades for bolts being A193 B7, B7M, B8 and B16 and A320 L7 and
Posts: 105 L7M. Nuts are usually Grade 2H CS if using a CS bolt.
Good Answers: 3
The type of bolt you use though is controlled in part by the type of gasket you are using. For example, some
Spiral Wound gaskets have a minimum seating strength of 25000psi which in turns means that the residual
bolt stress needs to be higher than this to seal the gasket. But then you need to take into account the
pressure of the medium, operating temperature, external moments on the assembly, type of lubrication
used and some other unknowns. All these factors taken into account will provide you with a required bolt
load to seal the joint and will subsequently provide you with a torque value which you need to take the bolts
to. This torque value should not be above 80%-85% of the yield value of either the bolt or the flange
material.

I cannot stress to you enough how much of an effect the type of lubricant you are using has on the
assembly. A difference of just 0.05 in coefficient of friction values can have serious effects on how well your
joint seals.

There are standards out there such as ASME VIII, EN13445, EN1591 etc which provide bolt load calculations.
Our software is written using the ASME VIII code. I would advise against rushing to get one of these
standards and then trying to hurry through the calculation process though as it is a bit of a mine-field.

Which company are you working for? Check who they go to for this sort of information. I am always happy
to help, however, if your company regularly use another provider for this sort of information then we could
get into a problem area.

Some useful websites:

Boltup online calculator: http://www.boltup.com/

Registration is free and it is a good starting point for calculating bolt loads and looking at different materials.
not all materials are listed on there though so it could be an idea to talk to an expert.

Welding Units Flange Data Disk: http://www.weldingunits.com/downloads/disks.php

2 of 5 27/01/2017 9:32 AM
CR4 - Thread: CS flange and SS flange connection http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/24411/CS-flange-and-SS-flange-connection

Flexitallic - manufacturers of Spiral Wound Gaskets: http://www.flexitallic.com/

Bolt Science: http://www.boltscience.com/pages/info.htm

British Gaskets: http://www.british-gaskets.co.uk/

Some other useful sites which you may or may not have used in the past:

Red Bag: http://www.red-bag.com/

Roy Mech: http://www.roymech.co.uk/

Online Materials Information Resource: http://www.matweb.com/index.aspx

Calculation basis of EN1591 method: http://www.sealeng.com/ase/documents/EN1591_Basis/index_f.html

Gives you a bit of an insight into the level of equations I am talking about. ASME is very similar to this.

Hope this is of help to everyone out there.

Kind Regards

Kev Brown

No more

welderman Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Guru 07/24/2008 8:43 AM

I gave Kev a good answer vote, but have one issue with his answer. How do you take unknowns into
account?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1583
Good Answers: 57

Kev_brown Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Power-User 07/24/2008 8:48 AM

I read that through after posting it and realised I should have written 'variables' and not 'unknowns'.
Thought I would just leave it in to see how many people would read through that without nodding off!!

Gold star for being eagle-eyed.

Thanks for the 'good answer' award. Much appreciated.

Kev Brown

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: England
Posts: 105
Good Answers: 3

Lawrence Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Commentator 07/24/2008 9:37 AM

Join Date: Jun 2007

I have an opinion on the choice of bolting material. I am not usually involved in the specification of
Posts: 66
Good Answers: 5 materials, but my company manufactures pressure vessels, so I see what many companies choose.

It seems that the external environment is more important in choosing bolt material than the internal process
conditions. An exception to this is consideration for the risk of rapid bolt corrosion and failure due to
leakage.

In the absence of a corrosive (or wet) external environment, I would think that low alloy bolting (B7 or B16
with 2H nuts) would be most preferrable.

Austenitic stainless bolting (B8, B8M) are subject to the same stress corrosion cracking issues that 304 and
316 stainlesses are and even more so becuase they are so highly stressed. If you are in a marine (salt
spray) atmosphere, these would be definitely not recommended. Go for PTFE coated alloy bolts instead.
(That's what all of our coastal / offshore customers do.)

cherry Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Active Contributor 07/27/2008 4:29 AM

Join Date: Dec 2007

Hello Lawrence,
Posts: 21

Refer to your comment and advice, your company is a pressure vessels manufacturer. Could you please tell
me your company contact person and email in order to enquiry pressure vessels for gas compressor
packages. what informations do you need for enquiry and vessel sizing?

3 of 5 27/01/2017 9:32 AM
CR4 - Thread: CS flange and SS flange connection http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/24411/CS-flange-and-SS-flange-connection

Do you mean PTFE coated alloy bolts&nuts(low alloy bolting) than SS is suitable for saliferous (corrosive
high CO2>52%) environment? In that case, how about gasket material?

Thanks & regards,

Sincerely yours,

Cherry

Lawrence Re: CS flange and SS flange connection I

Commentator 07/28/2008 9:48 AM

Join Date: Jun 2007

Cherry,
Posts: 66
Good Answers: 5
Let's take the commercial question off the discussion. Email me at lbower@josephoat.com.

On your CO2>52% environment, that sounds like internal bolting. Consult a metallurgist and gasket
manufacturer for recommendations. My comments were directed at external bolting.

Lawrence

Morgan 23 Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Power-User 07/24/2008 9:38 AM

Thank you for an outstanding resource! Excellent contribution.

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: USA Soviet
Socialist Dictatorship of
Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 208
Good Answers: 15

MANNU Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Active Contributor 07/24/2008 11:33 PM

Join Date: Apr 2008

I think the point is getting diverted. The problem is to join dissimilar material....i.e CS with SS.....how to
Posts: 13
join....& what to use.....

Kev_brown Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Power-User 07/25/2008 5:25 AM

I know what you are saying there Mannu but you still need to take into consideration the various areas I
mentioned. All these go towards deciding the material to use as well as the problems with interaction
between dissimilar grades of metal.

I'm no metalurgist so those sorts of problems would have to be directed elsewhere I'm afraid.

We need to look at both the forces coming from the joint which would affect the strength requirements of
the bolts and the interaction between the material grades.

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: England
Posts: 105
Good Answers: 3

tmentesoglu Re: CS flange and SS flange connection

Member 07/28/2008 12:34 AM

Join Date: May 2008

Go to gasket manufacturer Pikotek
Posts: 8

Tugrul

Reply to Forum Thread

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to

this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Join CR4, The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion!

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

4 of 5 27/01/2017 9:32 AM
CR4 - Thread: CS flange and SS flange connection http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/24411/CS-flange-and-SS-flange-connection

#4 "Re: CS flange and SS flange connection" by Kev_brown on 07/24/2008 5:32 AM (score 5)

Users who posted comments: Co

Anonymous Poster (3); cherry (1); Kev_brown (3); Lawrence (2); MANNU (1); Morgan 23 (1); PWSlack (1); tmentesoglu (1); welderman (1)

Previous in Forum: tesile test of material Next in Forum: details need about hot forging and cold forging
You might be interested in: Flange Protectors, Gas Compressors and Gas Compressor Systems, Gas Pressure Regulators

Advertisement

"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." -- Orville Wright

All times are displayed in US/Eastern (EST) (Register to change time zone)

2017 IEEE GlobalSpec. All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. The information contained on this site is by users for users and is prov
information purposes only and does not constitute advice. Any views or opinions expressed by users are personal to them and do not represent the views or opinions of IEEE GlobalS
check any information and use your own judgment or seek expert advice before doing or not doing anything on the basis of what you read here. IEEE GlobalSpec does not verify or w
accuracy or completeness of any information on this site and, to the extent permitted by law, IEEE GlobalSpec shall not be liable for any loss, damage or expense incurred by reliance
any dealings you have with users or other third parties that take place using or facilitated by this site.

Home | Site Map | Contact | Accessibility | Nondiscrimination Policy | Privacy & Opting Out of Cookies

5 of 5 27/01/2017 9:32 AM