26/02/2017 ConversationwithProfessorGeorgeHGadboisJr,adistinguishedscholarofIndianlawandjudicialbehaviour|LiveLaw

Conversation with Professor George H Gadbois

Jr, a distinguished scholar of Indian law and
judicial behaviour
BY: RAGHUL SUDHEESH
AUGUST 16, 2013 1:05 PM

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Supreme Court Had Exclusive: Statelessness May

No Jurisdiction To Con nement Of Lead To Many Other
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
Puls Letter Petition: Alok Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, Says Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
Asia Paci c (SNAP)

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George H Gadbois Jr. is Professor Emeritus of Political Science, University of Kentucky,

USA. His research over half a century dealing with the Supreme Court of India has
appeared in various publications since the 1960s. Gadbois is the author of the book Judges
of the Supreme Court of India: 1950-1989, which essays the background and life of the
rst ninety three judges who served the Supreme Court from 1950 to 1989. He has also
authored many other articles and book chapters dealing with Indian courts, judges, judicial
behaviour and judicial policy-making, dating back to 1963.

In this interesting conversation with Live Law, Gadbois Jr. talks about the origin of the
book, Indian Judiciary, some of the best Chief Justices and Judges, people who refused to
accept Supreme Court Judgeship, and much more

Live Law: Can you tell us about the birth of the book Judges of the Supreme Court? Will
there be a second part to the book?

George H Gadbois: I have been interested in your SCI (Supreme Court of India) judges for
over half a century, since my rst visit to India in academic year 1962-63, when I was a
graduate student at Duke University. Af liated with the Indian Law Institute, I was
fortunate to be mentored by Dr. A T Markose, its director at that time. I rather quickly
learned that Indians make good judges. One result of that year was Indian Supreme Court
Judges: A Portrait (Law & Society Review, 1968-69). No, I am not planning a second book
which would cover the post-1989 years. At age 77, its time to fold the tent and enjoy
reading the works of todays generation.

Live Law: What all hurdles did you face in the compilation of the book Judges of the
Supreme Court?

George H Gadbois: There were no hurdles in collecting the biographical materials. Before
Supreme Court Had Exclusive: Statelessness May
meeting each of the judges
No Jurisdiction To I scoured every available
Con source of information
nement Of about
Lead them,
To Many and
Other
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
read something they had written recall that I did the interviewing in 1983 and 1988
Puls Letter Petition: Alok Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
before Kumar,
Prasanna the SCI had
Vidhi a website. The
Fellow judges
Of The quickly
Assembly, Sayssaw that I had Prof.
done myRajan,
Sanoj homework
Governingand
Board
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
was well-informed about the Court. And all were pleased that IAsia wasPaciinterested
c (SNAP)
in their

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backgrounds. Most had never been interviewed. I requested 45 minutes of their time. Very
often the interviews lasted much longer and some were accompanied not just by tea and
snacks, but by lunch or dinner. Most clearly enjoyed the experience, and were quite
forthcoming. Writing up the interview materials was another matter, much more dif cult
than I had anticipated. Its not easy writing about named individuals.

Live Law: Recently, Live Law investigation has revealed that Justice U L Bhat was not
elevated to the Supreme Court for being irreverent to his seniors. What do you think is
the actual reason for Justice M N Venkatachaliah not elevating Justice U L Bhat?

George H Gadbois: I nd Justice Bhats account dif cult to believe. I met Justice
Venkatachaliah and found him to be a consummate gentleman.

Editors Note: Live Law spoke to Justice M N Venkatachaliah about the allegations raised by
Justice U L Bhat and he has con rmed that, if Justice U L Bhat has said so, it might have
happened. However he does not remember the particular incident as it happened almost 20 years
ago.

Live Law: Did you gather any information regarding the Justice M N Venkatachaliah
Court or the rst collegium consisting of Justices M N Venkatachaliah, Ratnavel Pandian
and A M Ahmadi?

George H Gadbois: No, I returned to the University of Kentucky in early 1989, well before
the collegium era began. But by con ning the recruitment plateau almost entirely to rather
elderly High Court Chief Justices, the role of merit is further diluted.

Live Law: Recently Gujarat High Court Chief Justice Bhaskara Bhattacharya has alleged
that he was not elevated to the Supreme Court for opposing Justice Altamas Kabirs
Supreme Court
sisters elevation to theHad Exclusive:
Calcutta High Court. Do you remember any suchStatelessness
instance in May
the
No Jurisdiction To Con nement Of Lead To Many Other
past or during your course of study?
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
Puls Letter Petition: Alok Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, Says Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
George H Gadbois: I know nothing about the Justice Bhattacharya matter. Earlier there
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
was an incident when a particular High Court judge was being considered for appointment
Asia Paci c (SNAP)

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to the Court. His appointment was

resisted by a senior Supreme
Courtassociate judge whose
objection was that the judge had
threatened to shoot his dogs! The
man was not appointed.

Live Law: Your book says Justice V S

Malimath refused to accept Supreme Court Judgeship probably because he would
become junior to his colleagues Justice E S Venkatramaiha and K Jagannatha Shetty.
Justice M N Venkatachaliah who was ve years junior to Justice V S Malimath was
appointed to the Supreme Court without even being a High Court Chief Justice. Did you
notice this fact? Do you think this was the actual reason behind his refusal?

George H Gadbois: During the rst 40 years, less than half the appointees came from the
ranks of High Court Chief Justices. CJI Pathak had a high opinion of Justice M N
Venkatachaliah, correctly so in my view, and reached down to third in seniority at
Karnataka to bring him up to Delhi. Justice V S Malimath was also senior, though by less
than four months, to Justices E S Venkataramiah and K Jagannatha Shetty. If Justice
Malimath declined an invitation to the SCI because a junior was appointed ahead of him, he
wasnt the rst or last to do so.

Live Law: You have studied the system of appointment of judges before the Judges case
and after the Judges case. Which is better according to your opinion?

George H Gadbois: Only the rst judges decision occurred during the years of my book. It
affected mainly the high court appointments. It had a very small effect on SCI
appointments. More
Supreme signi
Court Had cant during theExclusive:
1980s was Shiv Shankars role Statelessness
in appointments.
May
No Jurisdiction To Con nement Of Lead To Many Other
Both as law minister and when he held other portfolios, he was a judge-maker with his own
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
selection
Puls criteria,Alok
Letter Petition: and made lifeBreach
dif cult for chief
Of Privilege, justices.
And Contempt
Human Rights: Interview With
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, SaysProf. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
Live Law: Do you know any country other than India where Judges appoint Judges?
Asia Paci c (SNAP)

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George H Gadbois: I am not well-informed about courts in many other countries. Judges
play some role in selecting their colleagues in some countries, but, to my knowledge,
nowhere else do they have as much power to do so as in India.

Live Law: Who according to you is the best Chief Justice of India and why?

George H Gadbois: This is a very dif cult question. But Id say that Justice S R Das was the
best in the 1950s. He made some excellent choices, most of whom were relatively young
men. Six (Justices P B Gajendragadkar, A K Sarkar, K Subba Rao, K N Wanchoo, M
Hidayatullah, and J C Shah) of the ten appointed during his years (1956-1959) later
became chief justices. He also played a major role in promoting good relations among his
the judges. During the 1960s, my choice is Justice M Hidayatullah (1968-1970). A brilliant
man and a real leader of the court, he enjoyed the respect of his colleagues, and the bar. For
the 1970s, my vote goes to Justice S M Sikri (1971-1973). This will surprise some, but he
presided during a very transformative and dif cult period. The executive in 1971 reclaimed
the power it clearly had to select judges, and all nine of the appointees during his reign
were chosen by the government. Justice Sikri did have a veto, and used it, but for the most
part he and his colleagues found the executives choices to be satisfactory ones. And they
were they included Justices H R Khanna, K K Mathew, A K Mukherjea, and Y V
Chandrachud. For the 1980s, my choice is Justice Y V Chandrachud (1978-1985). His
tenure embraced two presidents, four prime ministers, ve law ministers, the rst judges
case, and the new era of activism led by Justices V R Krishna Iyer and P N Bhagwati. The
court was fractured probably more than ever before. Under all these circumstances, his
tenure was a dif cult period in the Courts life.

Live Law: Who according to you is the best Judge India has ever seen and why?

George HSupreme
Gadbois: This
Court too is a very dif cult
Had question. For the 1950s, theStatelessness
Exclusive: choice is May
relatively No Jurisdiction To
easy. This is Justice Vivian Bose.Con nement Of
A soft-spoken and shy man, he Lead
wasTo Many Other
the most
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
outspoken
Puls civil libertarian
Letter Petition: Alok during theOfrst
Breach decade
Privilege, And(see my Indian
Contempt Judicial
Human Rights:Behaviour, EPW,
Interview With
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, Says Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
1970). During his many years atP.D.T.Achary
the Nagpur High Court, he wasMember, a freedom ghter from the
Statelessness Network
bench, and after arriving in Delhi he was no less a defender of civil Asia liberties.
Paci c (SNAP)
During the
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1960s, my vote is for Justice J C Shah. He served the entire decade, and he outworked all of
his colleagues, usually dictating his opinions immediately after the hearings concluded. He
is remembered by most for his Shah Commission after the Emergency, and his
contributions during his years on the Court have been overlooked. For the 1980s, the
choice is between Justices P N Bhagwati and V R Krishna Iyer. Its my view that Justice
Krishna Iyer was the best of the two. Impeccably honest, a game changer in that he, more
than Justice Bhagwati, spoke effectively for the poor. Though Justice Bhagwati fans may
disagree, Krishna Iyer was, I believe, the founder of Public Interest Litigation and the liberal
expansion of locus standi. Choosing just one from the 1980s is almost impossible. Justices
Chandrachud and Bhagwati served well into the 1980s, and the latter in particular would
likely receive most votes in a poll. Overlooked have been the contributions of Justices O.
Chinnappa Reddy and D P Madon.

Live Law: Can you tell us about the people who refused to accept Supreme Court
Judgeship, particularly lawyers and the reasons for it?

George H Gadbois: According to chief justices, at least eight senior advocates (the number
is probably larger) declined invitations to become SC judges. These were H M Seervai
(1957 and again in the early 1960s), Lal Narayan Sinha (1958 and the again in early 1960s),
Nani Palkhivala (1961 and again a few years later), S V Gupte (1964), Fali Nariman (1979
and perhaps again later), K K Venogopal (1979), S N Kacker (1979), and K Parasaran (1979
and perhaps later). Had they accepted, and assuming the seniority convention, Seervai
would have been CJI for nearly ve years. Palkhivala, who was only 41 in 1961, would have
been CJI for 14 years (1971-1985), and Fali Nariman, if appointed in 1979 would have
been chief for four years, assuming, of course the continuation of the seniority convention.

The major reason for senior advocates declining invitation was money. As late as the mid-
1980s, Rs.Supreme
5000 perCourt Had
month was the salaryExclusive: Statelessness May
of the Chief Justice and Rs. 4000 for the
No Jurisdiction To Con nement Of Lead To Many Other
associate Hear
judges, unchanged since 1950. One
Dangwimsai MLAsof the senior advocates toldGrave
Constitutes me in 1983 that
Violations Of
Puls Letter Petition: Alok Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
a junior of four years standingOfatThe
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow
theAssembly
bar makes, Says
as much as a Supreme Court judge. The
Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
income of prominent advocatesP.D.T.Achary
was increasing in leaps and bounds, Member, Statelessness
and Network
far exceeded the
Asia Paci c (SNAP)

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salaries of the SCIs judges. Each pair of judges shared one car, while some senior advocates
had two. Other reasons were the low pensions and the prohibition of practice anywhere in
the country after retirement.

At least as many High Court judges declined invitations. An abbreviated list includes M C
Chagla, Dr. P V Rajamannar, and P B Chakravartti, Chief Justices of Bombay, Madras, and
Calcutta respectively. Others were Satish Chandra (Chief Justice at Allahabad), M M Ismail
(Chief Justice at Madras), and V S Malimath, the Chief Justice in Kerala. Some were
reluctant to leave the glamour of a prestigious high court chief justiceship to become the
most junior judge of the SCI. Some declined at least in part because a junior was already in
Delhi.

Live Law: You mentioned to me once that refusal of judgeship by some eminent lawyers
cheapened the Court. Can you elaborate this statement?

George H Gadbois: Yes, I do believe that the refusal of leading advocates to accept an
appointment cheapens and diminishes the Court. Leading advocates were happy to get rich
practicing before the Court, but had no interest in becoming judges themselves. In the
United Kingdom, nine of every ten barristers accept offered judgeships. In becoming judges
they are giving back to the profession. In India, a lucrative private practice trumps the
dignity, honour, security, and prestige that comes with a judgeship and denies the nation
and the Court of able judges.

Live Law: Justice A N Ray granted you the only interview he ever gave to anyone. How
was this possible?

George H Gadbois: When I rst wrote to Justice A N Ray requesting an interview, I

included a couple of articles I had published earlier. This enabled him to see that I was
Supreme Court Had Exclusive: Statelessness May
rather well-informed
No Jurisdictionabout
To him and the Court. He responded
Con nement Of that he would
Leadbe
Topleased to
Many Other
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes
spend some time with me. The rst half hour was a little tense, but duringGrave Violations Of
the last 2 1/2
Puls Letter Petition: Alok Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
hours both
Prasanna Kumar,ofVidhi
us were
Fellowcomfortable
Of Theand relaxed.
Assembly It was an excellent
, Says Prof. interview. Mangos,Board
Sanoj Rajan, Governing
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
other snacks, and tea were served, and we enjoyed each othersAsia company. We stayed in
Paci c (SNAP)

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touch over the years. That interview was one of my rst, and I regret that I didnt take up
his invitation to return to Calcutta for more conversations.

Live Law: In your book, the judges are broadly divided into two generations (from 1950
to 1970 and from 1970 to 1989). You indicate that the second generation of Indians were
being more Indian in the outlook they brought to Delhi than the rst generation. You
attribute this difference to the fact that the latter were mostly educated in the West. Is
there anything more to this?

George H Gadbois: No, there really isnt much more. The rst generation largely because
their rather privileged backgrounds and education in England meant that they were more
cosmopolitan, and also more detached from the real India than the post-1970 judges.
Particularly with the arrival of Justices P N Bhagwati and V R Krishna Iyer on the same day
in 1973, the Court commenced to deal with the real issues of India, particularly the plight
of the downtrodden, the largest segment of the population.

Live Law: Critics argue that you have been polite in your book to judges and there is
hardly any criticism on them. How do you take this?

George H Gadbois: Yes, there have

been some objections that I was too
kind to the judges. The reviews have
ranged from the book being a
masterpiece to disappointing. I
had no intention of evaluating the
judges. It would have been absurdly
presumptuous on my part to attempt
to evaluate or critically
Supreme assess the contributions
Court Had Exclusive:of 93 judges. Is there anyone in IndiaMay
Statelessness who
No Jurisdiction To Con nement Of Lead To Many Other
could do that? My intent was to provide descriptive biographical essays for them, and
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
provide
Puls Lettersome information
Petition: Alok about howOf
Breach and why they
Privilege, had been selected.
And Contempt The Interview
Human Rights: interviewsWithcan
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, Says Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
fairly be labelled soft. The book was written
P.D.T.Achary
for a broad audience. Its not a law book and
Member, Statelessness Network
not a political science book, and its bereft of unnecessary jargon. AsiaHad
Paci Icnot
(SNAP)
written it,
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there was no one else on the horizon who would have or could have written it. Had I not
stepped up, a lot of history of the Courts rst 40 years would have been lost.

Live Law: Do you think we need more direct appointments to the Supreme Court from
the Bar and the Academia?

George H Gadbois: I do. Today it seems that High Court Chief Justices feel that they own
the Court. Sadly, during my years,
leaders of the bar were happy to
exploit the Court for riches, but
refuse to serve on it. And there has
been a sea change in the quality of
some of the newer law schools
during the past generation. Law has
gone from ones last choice to a very
promising and lucrative career. There must be brilliant academics whose presence would
grace the Court. There is only a minimal correlation between promotions largely on the
basis of seniority and merit. To say that appointments have been on the basis of merit is
silly and just not true, unless merit is de ned not by the just the usual indicators, but also by
age, geographic region, caste, religion, and high court seniority.

Live Law: You gathered so much information before the advent of the Right to
Information Act. How was this possible?

George H Gadbois: I experienced no dif culties. I did my homework before meeting the
judges, and literally all were cooperative, some more than others, of course the interviews
focused on their backgrounds but often morphed into conversations about many other
matters. ISupreme
learnedCourt
a great
Haddeal. It was a privilege to get to know them. On several
Exclusive: occasions,
Statelessness May
No Jurisdiction To
I left an interview thinking that India was Con nement Of
getting Lead To Many Other
better judges that it deserved, given the
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
lowLetter
Puls salaries and Alok
Petition: working conditions.
Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, Says Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
Asia Paci c (SNAP)

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Live Law: Have you studied about capital sentencing in India? Even the Supreme Court
admits it is judge centric. What do you think?

George H Gadbois: No, I know little about that matter in India.

Live Law: What is the biggest problem plaguing Indian judiciary? Is there corruption in
judiciary in India according to you?

George H Gadbois: Everybody talks about the arrears. I wonder if there is another court in
the world with some 50,000 cases pending. My focus has been on the judges, and it is
impossible for me to believe that narrowing the eld of selection to only high court chief
justices is a good idea. There must be brilliant judges on the high courts who will never get
to the SCI because they were appointed too late to become chief justices of their high
courts. I realize that seniority is part of Indian culture, but an argument can be made that
making it the primary criterion does not serve the nation well. Im going to pass on the
corruption query. There was little talk of it in the 1980s, but its working its way up to the
front burner now.

Live Law: What are your future plans? Do you plan to conduct more research on Indian
Judiciary or Courts?

George H Gadbois: I may do a few more small things, but nothing close to as large a project
as the book. But that is subject to change!

Live Law: How was your experience in India?

George H Gadbois: You asked about my overall experience in India. I have loved being over
there. Ive spent four academic years there (1962-63, 1969-70, 1982-83, and all of 1988).
Plus several shorter visits. Im fortunate that
Supreme Court Had
I had these opportunities. I actually
Exclusive:
see the
Statelessness May
No Jurisdiction
book in part as a tokenToof my thanks for the
Con nement Of
privilege of spending parts of Lead To Many
my life Other
in India.
Hear Dangwimsai MLAs Constitutes Grave Violations Of
Puls Letter Petition: Alok Breach Of Privilege, And Contempt Human Rights: Interview With
Prasanna Kumar, Vidhi Fellow Of The Assembly, Says Prof. Sanoj Rajan, Governing Board
P.D.T.Achary Member, Statelessness Network
Asia Paci c (SNAP)

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