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AMA with typologist Dario Nardi
91 (self.mbti) this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2013
submitted 4 years ago by AncientSpirits 91 points (98% upvoted)
Hello, I'm Dario Nardi, author of shortlink: https://redd.it/18gudp
"Neuroscience of Personality: Brain-
Savvy Insights for All Types of
username password
People", among other books and
such. As the title hints, I run a
remember me reset password login
hands-on neuroscience lab using
EEG and look at links between brain
activity and personality. For you all,
that's Myers-Briggs. I'm happy to
take questions for the next hour (1
PM Pacific time USA) and again
tomorrow at the same time if there
is interest. Check me out at
www.darionardi.com to confirm my
identity.
130 comments share
all 130 comments

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[] Valkyrian 23 points 4 years ago
mbti
Thank you so much for doing this AMA;
subscribe 14,497 personalities
I'm researching MBTI a lot myself, and
~44 personalities
there are still so many things I don't
understand. I apologize for my questions
Description
being this lengthy - I'm just highly curious
about the subject and want to learn as The MBTI, short for Myers-Briggs Type
much as possible. Indicator, draws up 16 types that each of us
can belong to, according to our preferred
1. From what I've seen, there are 2 functions.
groups of MBTI observers: Those
who believe you ONLY use 4
functions in a set order, and those
who feel that everyone dips into all of
For Skeptics
the functions and can easily use
functions that aren't part of their Many dismiss MBTI with unsubstantiated claims.
However MBTI and Jungian theories are useful
orderings. There are many people who
tools for seeing how people construct and
find themselves "in between" types, perceive their world. Check here for more.
because they feel like they're using The MBTI sorts for type and each type has a
functions that are not part of their specific function order. Additionally, every
main 4. Is it possible to be, say, an type uses all four types of functions,
Intuition, Sensing, Thinking, and Feeling.
INFJ with high Introverted Feeling? Or Your type however determines the order
an ESTP with Extraverted Thinking? and attitude of these functions.
2. If you are stuck between 2 types, what You can test it out at kisa.ca, humanmetrics,
odiseajung (en espaol), mypersonality
is the best way to narrow it down? If (requires registration), or John's Personality
it's true that you REALLY DO only use 4 Test; then view your profile here:
functions in a certain order, how do To understand how the 4 letters code for
you know if your behavior is a result of functions
a few functions working together, or a SJ, Introverted Sensors:

single different function? Example: Say | ESTJ Te Si Ne Fi
you can't decide between ESTJ or | ESFJ Fe Si Ne Ti
ESTP. How do you determine whether | ISTJ Si Te Fi Ne
your problem-solving behavior is a | ISFJ Si Fe Ti Ne
combination of Se/Ti, or just Te? SP, Extroverted Sensors:
| ESTP Se Ti Fe Ni
3. Where do you draw the line between
| ESFP Se Fi Te Ni
Introverted Feeling and individualism?
| ISTP Ti Se Ni Fe
Since every human has a sense of
| ISFP Fi Se Ni Te
individualism, does this mean everyone
NF, Intuitive Feelers:
uses Fi by default? Or because
| ENFP Ne Fi Te Si
everyone uses logic to determine how
| ENFJ Fe Ni Se Ti
something internally works, does this
| INFP Fi Ne Si Te
mean every person uses Ti? Where is
| INFJ Ni Fe Ti Se
the line drawn between a FUNCTION,
NT, Intuitive Thinkers:
and something EVERYONE DOES?
| ENTP Ne Ti Fe Si
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| ENTJ Te Ni Se Fi
load more comments (7 replies) | INTP Ti Ne Si Fe
[] Pantuflita 12 points 4 years ago* | INTJ Ni Te Fi Se
What would you advice to someone young Note that each 4 letter type has corresponding
who is passionate about Jung, MBTI and functions that give a deeper and richer
understanding of each type.
personal growth but lives in a country
where only Freud is taught on Psychology
Notable Posts
and MBTI is seen as a flawed instrument?
Ive been reading and researching, and Official Subreddit Policy: Typing Threads
Are Allowed
even helping people with what Ive
Condensed Function Guide, peppermint-
learned in 8 years, but I cant seem to kiss
find a way to make a career of this.
Why arent you using EEG on your Multiple Models and How to Truly
Understand the Types - WhatINeverSaid
workshops anymore? Ive seen that people
AMA With Typologist Neu Dario Nardi
complete the maps manually on their own.
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Notable Books
load more comments (10 replies)
Building Blocks of Personality Type: A
[] raijba 14 points 4 years ago Guide to Discovering the Hidden Secrets
Dr. Nardi, I've just begun to get into your of the Personality Type Code, by Leona
Haas and Mark Hunziker
research findings and it's really
Gifts Differing: Understanding Personality
fascinating! Type, by Isabel Briggs Myers and Peter B.
My question has to do with how we can Myers
apply what you've discovered about type
and mental engagement to teaching and Other Personality Tests
learning. As a soon-to-be high school The Enneagram categorises human
literacy educator, I've wondered about personality into nine types. It's the work
of Oscar Ichazo and Claudio Naranjo.
how the different types engage
While MBTI measures the how we
themselves in reading, writing, and perceive our world and make decisions,
learning. Enneagram describes why we do what we
do, relating to our innermost motivations,
In your Lecture @ Google presentation, fears and desires. In combination with
you said "Engagement = Competence + MBTI enneagram is a potent tool for
motivation." It was also interesting how understanding yourself and others.
Enneagram's subreddit is here:
you mentioned that Se types engage /r/enneagram.
better when they can look out a Socionics was developed primarily by
windowan action that traditional the Lithuanian researcher Aura
teachers have interpreted to as a sign Augustinaviit, an economist,
sociologist, psychologist. Socionics is
that students lack engagement. This quite similar to MBTI but has some
makes me wonder just how many styles slightly difference nuances. It adds focus
of engagement teachers have prohibited to intertype relations and analysis of
functions. MBTI and Socionics are both
in the past and misunderstood. derived from Carl Jung, but are slightly
I'm interested in any findings regarding different in their presentation. The
Socionics subreddit is here:
how other types learn and engage /r/socionics.
because as an Ni-dominant, I understand Socionics types are the same to their
that the vast majority (95%?) of people MBTI counterparts. However, there is
will not engage in ways similar to me, so a discrepancy with introverts. If you
are for example an INTJ in MBTI, you
as a teacher, I'll need to be mindful of the
will be an INTp in socionics.
myriad ways that other types learn.
Moreover, schools seem to reject S Related Subreddits
students at a higher rate than N students
(I believe I read statistics about type /r/enneagram
/r/MBTIDating
retention in high school and college in /r/shittymbti
Gifts Differing, but it may have been in /r/socionics
another source). Apparently a higher
percentage of S students drop out. I think About
it is because they are expected to engage
created by rntksi a community for 6 years
themselves in ways that are less conducive
to their learning.
I'm sorry to ask such a broad and open
ended question. If answering would take too
long, I would greatly appreciate even being
pointed in the direction of any research or
writing done on the topic instead. If you've
covered this topic in any of your books, I'll
buy one :)
I'm really glad you're doing scientific
research into MBTI. Thank you for your
contributions.
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submitted 2 days ago by lioninafishsuit
108 comments share 10 comments
Getting past the sensor/intuitive disconnect
The 16 types in a
stereoTyping in conversation
94 nutshell (aka Thus Spake MBTI)
(i.redd.it)
submitted 6 days ago by _reLight_ INTP
44 comments share
Unverified I'm a Certified MBTI practitioner. AMA. (self.mbti)

69 submitted 3 days ago * by TwistedAsura
212 comments share
Socionics How all types use their 8th function (leontsao.com)

40 submitted 5 days ago by _reLight_ INTP
32 comments share
General Discussion Am I the only one... (self.mbti)

30 submitted 3 days ago by LaziestBadass ESTP
32 comments share
For Fun: stereoTy Post a picture/piece of art that would represent each MBTI
29 Type! (self.mbti)
submitted 1 day ago by Uesugi_Kenshin ENFP
60 comments share
General Discussion INXXs, do you use quotes or analogies to try explain your
24 point? (self.mbti)
submitted 4 days ago by PermyCurlyFry
27 comments share
Question What is the most accurate test online? (self.mbti)

20 submitted 2 days ago by guriinii INFP
53 comments share
General Discussion What ''group'' were you in in high school? (self.mbti)

20 submitted 3 days ago by evilpanda24
70 comments share
General DiscussionINTJ vs ISTJ (self.mbti)

14 submitted 4 days ago by lmariet INFJ
37 comments share
Comments, continued...
[] [deleted] 11 points 4 years ago
What would the EEG scan of an emotionally developed INTJ look like when compared
to an INTJ who has not examined their emotions, how they function, what events
trigger them (seemingly), etc.
Some people claim that they've changed type, but others say it's impossible and that
they're utilizing the same main-thought-process but in a manner that mimics the other
functions. Is that any data to point towards which self-analysis seems to be more likely
true?
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[] AncientSpirits [S] 21 points 4 years ago
In the lab, I've looked at 1 INTJ in midlife and a handful of college age. I stumbled
upon something really interesting that directly relates to your question.
The INTJ, let's call him Joe, showed a solid green (theta) pattern across whole
neocortex whenever he said "wife" or "boss" or referred to his 2 best friends. The
boss was him, by the way, as Joe is the boss in his department at work and doesn't
really have anyone specific above him. I really wondered what was going on. We
spent over a half-hour on a diversion exploring the question. Eventually, we figured
out how to include the theta pattern and why it occurred.
Joe said that when we was younger he had an anger management problem. He
would be easily irritated by a lot of things, and that harmed his close relationships.
Over time, he sought to develop a more "conscious" (his words) mindset when
dealing with people and situations that were really important to him. This mindset
involved intensely focusing in a "mindfulness" kind of way. Part of this involved
thinking about how his own and others' actions affected those around him, and
being mindful of those reactions and heading them off if necessary. This also
involved being thoughtful of others needs. The situations weren't always about
people. He talked about being in traffic and how lack of mindfulness by others
would irritate him. He still has strong feelings about the lack of conscious behavior,
and recognizes there is a paradox in their (a paradox of human nature).
What's interesting is that the solid theta is characteristic of the --TP types
(introverted Thinking ISTP and INTP in particular). And theta is associated with
cutting off input from the limbic system, that dark seat of biases, memories, and
visceral responses. Yet everything he talked about sounded like introverted Feeling.
It seems like he's cultivated an introverted Judging function. Or he's recruited a
particular brain pattern (theta) to solve a problem that relates to Fi, even though that
pattern is usually recruited by Ti. Not sure what to make of it, but I found it
fascinating.
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[] onthejourney 6 points 4 years ago
Man, I would love for you to wire up my clients in session with me. This
addresses my other question about reconciling various functions through
process (which you touched on by following through with your diverted
questioning).
A lot of my work is helping the client rewire their flight/fight/freeze (limbic)
system through conscious perception of their body sensations on a non-editorial
basis (non-judging). Not "I'm feeling anxious, nervous, or angry", but "I notice
my heart is beating faster and I feel a tightness in my chest. As we continue
that work, they're able to disassociate their old "reality" from those sensations,
which at times can be described as "core beliefs".
Unraveling the core belief is very interesting to watch, b/c previous information
and "truths" about the world can no longer be reconciled with the old thought
patterns. I can literally watch a clients eyes dart to and fro through the various
submodality indicators (NLP verbiage) along with other somatic twitches (full
body and localized) as the mind/body re calibrates using this new information.
Man, I would love to see that on brain scan! Thanks for sharing!
Ooo, that's actually really interesting to hear. Ty!

By the way, for anyone who is interested in exploring the topic in more detail, here are
some resources: -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfhQTbcqmA (Free insanely
long video of a presentation at Google) --
http://www.radiancehouse.com/workshops.htm (Workshops on the topic, including
regular 90-minute webinars) -- The book, "Neuroscience of Personality: Brain Savvy
Insights for All Types of People", which you can grab at Amazon (sorry no e-reader
version yet, conversion of all the graphics is a challenge). -- Other... Just email me.
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[] Human_Paladin INTJ 8 points 4 years ago
Simple question: What do you identify as? As in type.

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I identify with INTJ. I selected this in 1992, at age 22, and have maintained that
sense ever since.
[] Sociacademic 2 points 4 years ago*
Thanks for doing this!

Would you mind saying more about which parts of the INTJ descriptions you
identify with?
I ask because I have watched this clip and this clip with you and I find that you
come across very differently from me. Even though I like to think that I make
an effort to be more open and friendly than the average INTJ, I'd say you're off
the charts in this respect! Also, the way you write doesn't resonate with me.
Very often with other INTJs, I feel like I could see myself writing what they've
written, but not so with you.
Of course whatever type you are, it doesn't detract from your work. I'm just
curious.
Edit: For example, this quote of yours from above:
Having permeable boundaries is important--that is, being present as who
you are, assuming you actually wish to be there. Adolescents are perceptive
of phoniness and responsive to genuineness. I tell stories about my life and
family--not intimidate stories, but ones that reveal I too am a person. (...) I
am a secret rebel. That is the source of my smile. Most students are secret
rebels, they just don't have a cause yet. You can give it to them....
Sounds to me like Fi > Te in your function stack.
[] wolfgangpaulig 4 points 4 years ago
Everybody's personality changes when they go up on stage!!! I know this

isn't a great source, but it's just one example. And I certainty cannot speak
for Dario, but I think pretty much everyone becomes different on stage.
http://www.beyondshynessandsocialanxiety.com/authors/daniel-tosh-
social-anxiety-sufferer-how-he-uses-it-to-to-great-effect
I definitely identify with having a stage self. I'm actually very much at
home with other INTJs off-stage. People who know me personally,
including other type experts, see the unstaged Dario. That said, it's not
fake. It's just a performance. John Beebe would prefer to NTJ-SFP as a
spine relationship, and I certainly identify with that. As for boundaries,
even though I mention the importance of permeable boundaries, I still
maintain an acquire awareness of said boundaries all the time. I'm just
aware that many things don't matter, so why not share them to get the
desired effect? And like I say elsewhere, I've done quite a bit of NLP,
especially in my early 20s. No doubt that, along with part of my upbringing
in the Caribbean (an SFP culture), had an impact.
I've given plenty of presentations, and I'm good at it. I even have
myself on video (no, I'm not posting it for comparison, sorry). I don't
come across like DN does.
Also, in my comment I mentioned not identifying with his writing. That's
a separate issue which you don't address. Do you identify with e.g. the
part I quoted in my comment?
[] wolfgangpaulig 3 points 4 years ago*
Well, I'm an INTP, and I'm new here (not new to Jung or personality
type psychology), so, is Fi - introverted feeling, and Te extroverted
thinking? I've noticed that the T/F distinction fluctuates pretty
drastically within me. Sometimes Fi > Te and vice versa, depends on
the situation and my mood. Are they one in the same? If you are Te
are you also Fi? I'm definitely not Fe, and I'm new to this community
and the terminology. I would call myself a rational idealist, in a very
bipolar kind-of way..
INTP is what I associate myself with most often, but it's not who I
am on stage for presentations or in my public speaking class.
Sometimes I like to work on the aspects of my personality that are
lacking, and when I write something or speak, I bring out qualities
that might make me seem one way, when internally, it's the
opposite of how I really am.
And the more we know about these things, the more we are able to
consciously change our appearance for the situation. And I don't
think that other INTP's would have the same writing voice as I do, or
speaking presentation, even though INTP is the state we are most
comfortable in and attracted to.
[] possibeerlity 3 points 4 years ago*
Nardi has always struck me as an SFP. He comes across fun loving and
grounded. Gasp, yes it's possible to be an intelligent and academic focused
SFP. Surprise!
Sounds to me like Fi > Te in your function stack.
Yeah. Also INTJ's are probably the most mistyped type, with ISTJ, ISTP's
and INFJ's being possibly the most common real type.
What's worse, are those that strongly self-identify with a mistyping and
construct a reality around it.
I mean for example (and this goes beyond Nardi), what are the odds that
someone that professionally calls themselves type x for a decade, is
recognized as somewhat of an authority, would actually admit to being wrong
about their own type. Highly unlikely that many people on this earth would
posses the intellectual honesty to welcome that.
He could be an INTJ, I guess, but the odds that any self identified INTJ on the
internet, is actually one, is actually pretty low IMO.
People naturally find it difficult to grasp the abstract and conceptual nature of
Ni dom with Te aux as it plays out.
[] Sociacademic 1 point 4 years ago
Hi possibeerlity, I don't know if you saw, but I sent you a message.

Please check your messages. :)
[] Remcy 6 points 4 years ago
Have you done an EEG on anyone with ADD or ADHD? If you have, how did they differ
from normal EEG scans?
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I generally don't accept subjects who have brain injury, or are on medication that
might affect their mental activity, or have been labeled with a diagnosed mental
disorder. I have accepted a few, but I don't include their results in analysis. I've
looked at a person on Prozac (or its equivalent, I don't recall now). I suspect
several of my students found themselves experiencing ADD or ADHD symptoms at
times, but none with a diagnosis or such. I would say the person on Prozac
presented a marketed different (and very boring) EEG. There are some subjects,
notably the ES-P and EN-P types, with brain activity and behaviors that some
people might call ADD, but I didn't delve into that.
[] JustOneIndividual 1 point 4 years ago
I wouldn't really consider ADHD a brain injury; their brains just work a little
different. Would you accept someone who ADHD who was not on medication?
[] IchBinLecher 1 point 3 years ago
I think that was subsumed in the the statement about it being "Diagnosed
Mental Disorder." ADHD is considered by modern psychology to be a
disorder, albeit a relatively common one.
[] Sociacademic 7 points 4 years ago
Please come back tomorrow!

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I will come back this time tomorrow. :-) And I'll keep answering questions here for
another half hour or so. This is fun! :-)
I will come back this time tomorrow. :-) And I'll keep answering questions
here for another half hour or so. This is fun! :-)
I hope you consider making your AMA thread in advance so we can milk you for
all you're worth optimize our time with you.
Yay!
[] cmVkZGl0 1 point 4 years ago
I can't wait now.

[] NPPraxis 7 points 4 years ago*
Hello Mr. Nardi!

Here's a question for you. I've seen multiple articles and studies "debunking" Myers-
Briggs. Most of the time, they're targeting the way the Myers-Briggs organization
presents it (similar to a horoscope, ignoring functions, and demonstrating how people
test on a bell curve), and the arguments seem completely irrelevant to the Jungian
model.
Here's a question; what kind of experiment could you imagine that would be able to
"prove" the validity, or at least usability, of Myers-Briggs in clinical or educational
settings?
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[] AncientSpirits [S] 11 points 4 years ago*
There's a lot of "haters" in academia with regard to Myers-Briggs. Mainly, they

keep referring to a review of it done over 20 years ago that is misleading and way
out of date. Academia suffers from the "not invented here" attitude as much as
anywhere else.
Naturally, there are others who don't like it as well. They seem to resent the box-
like nature of it, as it's often presented in a simplistic way, which is entirely
understandable.
Then there are statisticians. Alas, these folks don't know about dynamic systems. I
really do liken the psyche to a dynamic system with a finite number of attractor
basins. Just because something is possible in theory doesn't mean it's a sustainable
way to be in the world. Statistics by itself is very 1880s.
Personally, I present whatever models are needed for the situation, and try to do
so in a flexible way. For example, when I present the 4 Keirseyian temperaments
(or rather, Linda Berens version of them), I focus on ranking the temperaments,
with the top as "home base", a place of great comfort where we often return to under
stress.
Neuroscience continues its long march into many aspects of our world and lives. If
type can keep up with neuroscience, it will enjoy acceptance. Otherwise, it will be
treated more like astrology or fall to the wayside. That is one reason why I'm doing
my research, to pave the way for people in the next century to really come to the
dynamic understanding of psyche of the character that Jung proposed.
[] NPPraxis 3 points 4 years ago
Thank you for your thoughts!

A second question; at the point you are at in your research, can you actually
determine someone's MBTI type using an EEG? Predict their test results, or at
least dominant function? (Admittedly, tests are not always accurate, but if they
line up with even a fair amount of accuracy...)
Yes and sort-of about determining type.

If I can link the brain activity with the task they are doing, even if I don't
see them doing the task (which as knowing from a time record what they
were doing when), then I can determine type pretty well.
If I'm just given the raw EEG data, it's harder but I'm working on polishing
an algorithm to sort out folks.
An example is solid blue (delta wave) across the whole neocortex. There are
so many things that induce this depending on type and background. But if I
know the person is doing say, a future visioning activity or active listening
activity or whatnot, then I can link the brain activity to type.
There are other patterns like solid yellow (alpha wave) that indicate Sensing
preference without doubt, regardless of context, except if the context is the
person listening to favorite music with eyes shut (that's when pretty much
everyone gets into either solid alpha or the tennis hop).
Right now, EEG greatly aids in understanding a person. Beyond that, I still
find context, self-reflection, psychometrics, etc are useful to have.
I will return to chat tomorrow at the same time (1 PM Pacific time). Thank you
everyone for your thoughtful questions.
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Everyone, thank you for coming! I will return here over the next week and do my best
to answer lingering questions and followups. Also, to all of you who expressed your
support and passion, I really appreciate it. :-) It's exciting times!
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I think I speak for many others when I say the pleasure is all ours! Thank you so
much for joining us!
[] paddywhack 7 points 4 years ago*
I am quite curious as to how the inferior function for various types manifests within
the EEG scans. For example, as someone who identifies as an INTJ, I would love to
know what's going on when I walk into a crowded social setting and my inferior Se just
gets inundated with sensory input. I feel like my vision becomes incredibly myopic and
I am walking around in the dark with a dimly lit flash-light, so to speak.
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This deserves a whole lot more than I can give it here. Some thoughts:
An INTJ does show the "tennis hop" pattern typical of SP types (who prefer
extraverted Sensing). They may show it when playing certain video games just like
most other people. They may also show it in special, limited situations.
One twenty-something INTJ showed the tennis hop but only with eyes closed when
using his imagination to engage in a fantasy D&D style adventure.
A mid-life INFJ showed the tennis hop when he used his iPad to create music
improvisationally.
Now, the younger INTJ showed a lot of T5 activity. This is linked to responsiveness
to social feedback. In his case, he wasn't necessarily picking up and responding to
feedback after it was given. Rather, he used T6 (also very active) along with T5 to
anticipate what social feedback he will likely get, and then halting or modifying a
behavior if he expected the social feedback to be bad.
As an INTJ who's been around the block, I asked him how effective this technique
was for social situations (not very) and advised him on how we might use
extraverted Sensing (he's type knowledge) to do much better. Eventually, he
developed his own method, a hybrid of Ni and Se. He imagines (perhaps using F7)
that he's in a virtual role-play environment and that the person are computer-run
NPCs, and then he feels a lot more comfortable interacting with them
spontaneously, because he "knows" the outcome of the interaction likely won't
matter. I hope this example hasn't made INTJs sound too odd. His approach made
sense to me, although I get-by in a manner I learned by observing an ESFP.
So ultimately, in this INTJ's case, maybe it was more a temperament issue (fear of
failure or unpleasantness), rather than sensory overload. But I could see a similar
dynamic at play otherwise.
This is linked to responsiveness to social feedback. In his case, he wasn't

necessarily picking up and responding to feedback after it was given. Rather,
he used T6 (also very active) along with T5 to anticipate what social feedback
he will likely get, and then halting or modifying a behavior if he expected the
social feedback to be bad.
Is this the type of stuff that's in your "Neuroscience of Personality" book b/c I'm
having a nerdgasm here. If not, please direct me on where to read more stuff like
that.
This particular session with the INTJ took place after my book came out. But
yeah, there is a whole chapter on a sample session with an ISTP with stuff
like this. With every subject, I get some great insights like this.
[] paddywhack 1 point 4 years ago
Thankyou,
I do a lot of networking and conferences. My business partner is an ESFP and
natural socialite and I find I can't wait to escape it all after a day of constant
bombardment. But I also recognize how Se can be used to focus my Ni with
laser-like precision. I wish I had more conscious control in attaining this state of
"mental flow" but find that my prescient insight triggers at the least desirable of
times, i.e. driving alone or late at night before falling asleep. I also noticed that
if I don't take action while my brain is hot I won't be able to return to that
incredible mental state where I seemingly make connections faster than light.
My minds eye has this picture and I just want to capture it before it fades. It's
like being shown a giant map for an instant and trying to externalize all the
details.
Do you know of any methods or techniques to actively engage this Ni faculty
and keep the mental momentum going?
[] beaker0110 1 point 4 years ago
I too am an INTJ. I perceive myself as a character in an rpg interacting with

npcs. This method got me through deployment in Afghanistan. Not really a
question, just happy that another person takes this approach.
[] MagicNine 6 points 4 years ago
First, time to gush: When I found your work with brain EEG's and MBTI, I freaked out.
This was back in 2012. I had been looking for something exactly like this for the
longest time. And then I found out you taught at UCLA. I freaked out because I too
was a student there at the time and had recently gotten into MBTI. And when I say got
into it...I mean obsessed somewhat (I'm an ENTP), where I was kind of fine tuning the
original theory and creating my own based on some of my own observations on
interaction patterns between types. I was going to ask to be a test subject. Then I
found out you had already left... Oy vey :p
Ok, now that that's out of the way, time for my questions. First, I read some of your old
experiments and in one of them you put different types into groups to "Make a
presentation about the making of this presentation" and then observed what happened. I
remember that you noted that ENTP's (who are college aged at least) tend to not be too
good in group projects like this because they focus too much on social engineering. Why
exactly do you think this is? Does this change with age? How should ENTP's be oriented in
relation to a group for the best outcome?
Also, in one of the presentations you did that I saw a video of, you stated that 50% of left
handed people have a brain much differently organized than 95% right handed people
and the other 50% of people, especially in relation to language or something. Could you
expand on this?
What do you think of the popular belief that seems to be online everywhere that must
ADHD people are ENTP's? Also on that note, do you have any insight into Dr. Barkley's
view that ADHD-C,HI,and PI are actually two different disorders which he has named:
ADHD-C and ADD/SCT (previously ADHD-PI)
Are you looking into getting higher resolution or different kinds of brain scans for further
investigations? fMRI? or would that be too troublesome/expensive?
What's the most surprising/interesting thing you have discovered recently? I remember
when I first read about the Christmas Tree pattern of Ne and I was just like "It all makes
sense now."
Haha sorry to overload you with questions, but I've always wanted to ask you all these
questions. I love your research, and I hope you continue it.
Thanks!
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Here's my last post for today.

I'm still at UCLA nominally as a fellow. I'll be there next week for a luncheon. Some
faculty are trying to launch a social media and games related program. Good luck!
Yes, I ran a group dynamics seminar. Students were organized into small groups of
5 to 8, given meeting space for a month, and tasked to give a group presentation
at the month's end. The topic of the presentation: their group's process while
preparing to give that presentation. Circularity at its finest. ;-) Devilishly fun too.
And yes, after running something like 5 dozen of those, I've found 4 type-gender
combinations that tend to cause a ruckus in their groups, and not in a good way.
Male ENTPs were one of those 4. I suspect it has something to do with extraverted
Feeling (Fe) that is not so well-developed but of great interest to the ENTP. Over
the years I defined the bad apple: Someone who is extraverted but lacks the ability
or will to respond smoothly to social feedback. Young ENTPs aren't known for their
social feedback skills. Of course, other types like INTPs aren't either, but then
INTPs are introverts, so their lack of competence doesn't harm the group in the
same way an outgoing ENTP can. I suspect the whole type pattern plays into it:
The desire to play host and to explore ideas in a messy way while dismissing
people's beliefs and not attending to possible consequences. Now, I'm describing an
unpleasant version of young male ENTP. I've had some fine versions too. Among
those who were harmful to their group process, male ENTPs were well-represented,
but there were certainly ENTPs, particular female ones, who would catch on more
quickly or otherwise manage to be sufficiently sensitive. I can think of several who
were real assets in fact, though they came from ethnic households (Persian, etc),
which might explain their experience.
I don't know a lot about handedness. I'm just reporting what I've read. In fact, when
I visited ASU, a faculty member there who works with EEG said lefties aren't so
different, no big deal. Then I tested a lefty, with an eye toward verifying his neocortex
organization, and he turned out to have a right-hander's brain organization.
I don't know a lot about ADD/ADHD. I know two adults who are diagnosed with ADD:
One an INTP and the other an ESTP. Their experiences and the things that trigger
their ADD are almost opposite. This got me thinking, if ADD/ADHD relates to
dopamine, there are heavy concentrations of dopamine receptors in both the motor
and prefrontal regions on the brain. So, maybe the form of ADD/ADHD has to do with
where receptors are. I may be quite wrong. I'm just going on memory of things I've
read and wondered about.
I might do higher resolution EEG, but the cost and inconvenience of fMRI--I'll let that
to others. Eventually, there will be new technologies like infrared scanners that can go
deeper into the neocortex, making the choice a moot point.
Yeah, Christmas tree! I recall meeting a guy in Auckland once, he wanted to hear
about my work -- in 30 seconds. I was guessing ENTP, so I mentioned the Christmas
tree pattern. It worked for him.
[] MagicNine 4 points 4 years ago*
Good to hear you're still around then.

Totally agree for the ENTP being disruptive like that with an underdeveloped Fe.
College is right about the time that Fe, develops for an ENTP. I have noticed a
dichotomy for ENTPs though at this age. Those that were forced to develop Fe
early on in their life due to environmental pressures (ex: I lived in 6 cities in 3
different countries before college, was born in a foriegn country, another ENTP
friend was yelled at a lot for speaking out too much when young, and a third
friend had an INTJ dad who raised him very well, and some other factors) are
fairly balanced ENTPs. We're also much more introverted, to the point where we
all exhibit INTP tendencies at times. Based on our problem solving skills, I'm
pretty sure we'd all show decent F3 and strong F4 activity along with P4b.
We're also much more intellectual with better grades.... Interesting how that
works out.
...So forcing Fe (F7 & T5) also leads to F3 and F4 to develop stronger activity?
It makes sense because the data coming in from these regions would have to
be processed by F4 and then F3 to develop new social behavior. What are your
thoughts? It almost seems like early Fe makes ENTPs combine with a bit of
INTP.... The sample size is quite small though. haha I was most definitely an ENTP
as a child though. Always climbing things and whatnot. My brother was the calmer
INTP.
A female ENTP would fit a similar pattern I would imagine, although I know one
that is definitely low on the Fe T5 activity.
More 'standard' ENTPs fit your description of a more unpleasant version. They're
also much louder and talkative. They're still great to be around though when
there's no work to be done. :p
How do you get along with ENTPs? INTJs are fun to be around for me.
I asked about the handedness thing because A) I'm left handed B) When I was
young, my parents thought it would be cool to have a bilingual kid, so they spoke
English to me while our housekeeper spoke Japanese to me, and then when I
started speaking, which wasn't until almost age 4, I spoke my own Japlish
language that I had to go to therapy to sort out. This makes me think that my
language processing is more in the right hemisphere than in a typical person. Only
speak English now. I have a hard time with new languages, especially speaking,
but the thing is that I don't really think in words sometimes. I call it abstract
thinking.
The interesting part is that I've asked a lot of people if tend to think abstractly or
more in words, and most people have no idea what I'm talking about with
'abstract' thinking. Just to make sure, is this what C4 'aesthetic recall and holistic
sensation' is? If I looked over the brain scans on your facebook correctly, C3
seems to be much more used than C4 except for Ne aux, Ne dom, and Ni+Fe
types. My INFP friend is a costume designer who has the hardest time putting into
words what he's thinking but has an amazing imagination. Have you looked into
C3 & C4 relations with language and thinking?
For the ADD/ADHD thing, I think you're dead on. As to the papers I read,
consensus seems to be that ADD is searching for stimuli due to lack of arousal
while ADHD is being distracted by stimuli. So in theory an INTP has ADD and
because of a lack of arousal in the motor cortex, while an ESTP has ADHD because
of a lack of process control in the prefrontal cortex. Cool stuff. As to your friend
from Auckland...Hehe... Ni predicts type, Te gives path of least effort. How INTJ of
you. I always find you INTJs funny in the most subtle ways.
Oh my, I've rambled a bit. Time to get to the questions I actually had.
Have you looked into type development over time? Are there certain types that
tend to develop more parts of the brain as they get older than others? I'm
guessing for example that ISTJs stay relatively constant and ENFJs tend to
develop faster because they mirror others and internalize it a bit. And for the
types that do show development faster, is usually a conscious effort to do so? I
guess environmental factors would also affect it.
Have you ever scanned children's/adolescent's brains?
Are certain types 'morning people' and others 'night owls'? I imagine this has to
be so.
What's Ni like? It sounds very calming and focused. Is it basically just flow all the
time?
Are there any other researchers doing research similar to this that you know of?
Which types are best at compensating for their weaker functions?
And lastly, and the one I'm most curious about, have you ever done scans of two
people of different types interacting with each other? I'm curious to whether
there's a pattern where certain types activate specific regions in another type
when interacting, especially for types with wildly different brain activity. It would
be hard to control for individual variations between each type though I would
imagine.
Thank you again. I find it all fascinating. Here's to hoping that all of the MBTI
internet doesn't crash reddit tomorrow when you come back.
There are so many questions here to respond to...

I looked at college students ages 17 to 25. Then recently I'm looking at
midlifers ages 37 to 45, though I had a 60 year old recently, for kicks.
Kids have very different EEG waveforms compared to adults. I'm not trained
or experience in kids at all.
I schedule EEG lab sessions based on whether the subject self-reports as
more of a morning person or afternoon person, to get them when they are
likely at higher energy.
I don't think there are researchers doing quite what I'm doing, which is very
much in the tradition of classical science, exploring and observing and
writing log notes etc along with the usual protocol and statistics based stuff.
When I debrief someone after they do a task, I learn stuff I wouldn't know.
For example, when given a classic task involving betting (situations of risk
and uncertainty), it's useful to ask how they believe they are deciding.
That's generally not done in psychological experiments unless the point is to
compare self-report with behavior, or such. Basically, I'm unusually
comfortable working with a lot of variables at once.
There are some published studies on EEG and type. Well, one
comprehensive one I can think of. But it just correlated frequency bands
and regions with MBTI preference dimensions. They didn't do research.
They did a formal study. And of course there were a lot of things they didn't
know to even look for, so they didn't find those things, or at minimum, they
didn't report them.
I haven't scanned two people at the same time. Others have, but they're
not using type.
Regarding what you said early about non-standard ENTPs, having had many
ENTP students with which I've become acquainted, I agree. It fits my
experience as well. How exactly that happens I don't know. But Beebe would
say that Ti and Fe work in tandem. So that developing good use of T5, for
ENTPs, would require reasoning regions like F3 and such as well.
I'm a personal development coach/therapist who works a lot from the proposed
theories of Carl Jung. I just discovered this subreddit today and hence your work so I
apologize if this has been covered.
In your studies in neuroscience and EGGs, have you been able to notice any
differences in people who have reconciled opposing functions (as mentioned in this
excerpt)
What happens when a function is rejected? For example, someone uses extroverted
Intuiting center stage for heroic results and rejects extroverted Sensing, relegating
it to a negative shadow role. Both of these functions are used to perceive the
outer world but they are used to focus attention in diametrically opposite ways.
Much of my work involves bringing these subconscious programs to consciousness for
resolution. Using various Neuro-linguistic Programming techniques, the client and I
give shape and form to these functions which can result in tremendous
personality/behavior changes (from seconds (instant) to over the course of a few
weeks).
To your knowledge, has any brain imagery research been conducted on people going
through psychological/behavioral change work (therapy, coaching, counseling)? I
swear at times, people's neural pathways (long engrained) are literally being rewired
right in front of me.
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I'm a big fan of Ericksonian methods and NLP when they're done well, and for
ethical purposes, which sounds like where you're operating.
I find the brain can get into cycles or patterns of responsiveness and thinking that
are habitual, that fail to tap the diversity of resources that the brain offers. Here
are two examples, not from my own work, but pretty interesting:
When people are subjected to TMS (trans-cranial magnetic stimulation), particular
brain regions work better or worse. In one study out of Australia, people showed
markedly improved artistic ability for 3-4 hours after TMS before reverting to their
prior "low-talent" mode. Apparently, we humans have more latent artistic ability
that we might think. The model here: The TMS shocks a region of the left
hemisphere that normally sounds out a signal blocking activity from a region in the
right hemisphere normally associated with artistic ability. The TMS treatment
temporarily turns off the blocking signal, allowing the suppressed brain region to
get more active.
In my lab, I've seen something like this twice, with two female ESTJs, both
illustrators. Their normal EEG pattern was pretty left-brained. But when they switched
to drawing, their whole EEG suddenly changed to look like the INFJ artist I had in the
lab earlier that quarter. The INFJ's brain always looked that, but the ESTJs somehow
easily switched to that mode.
Naturally, if a tiger were to saunter into your room right now, your emotional state
would suddenly change. Since emotions are linked to behavior and cognition--e.g.
embarrassment and region T5--it's not a surprise that we can elicit a shift in
emotional state via an NLP swish pattern exercise very quickly.
I haven't looked specifically at therapeutic contexts yet. That is in the cards once I
have the portable EEG system in place.
[] onthejourney 1 point 4 years ago
Thanks for answering, I love hearing about research that gives credence to my
experience in practice, particularly when it goes against current academic
thought. I really appreciate your time.
I look forward to hearing about your future work. Deep NLP and Ericksonian
work when combined with the understanding of how the body/mind stores
anxiety/trauma/emotions has resulted in my most effective and profound work.
It would be awesome to have a before and after picture of the brain akin to
weight loss progress photos ;) I look forward to reading your work, off to
amazon :)
The EEG catches everything as it happens. It shows how much you like a
picture of someone in the fraction of a second, just as it's exposed to you.
And so on for a million things. I imagine we'd see instantaneous change in
the brain activity, at least for some NLP and Ericksonian exercises. Of
course follow up would be interesting and useful too.
Have you ever had a participant watch their own EEG brain map live?
I feel like this would be fascinating to see for myself. I foresee
something like this being of value for an individuals state management,
maybe integrated into a future iteration of Google's Glass Project.
Yes. I didn't help or do anything interesting. The reason is that the

EEG console shows a huge volume of ever-changing information, so
it's really overkill for being a biofeedback machine. I'd suggest, if
someone wants to develop something like more F7 activity, then
they could have a device that beeps or whatever only when F7 is near
or passes a threshold. Too much information can be overkill.
So, like an individual head sensor that could clip over the ear,
attached via Bluetooth to some device with vibrational feedback
to allow the wearer be present?
I could only imagine (in my naivety to the complexities of the
human brain) the marketability of such a gadget IFF there was
solid data to predict a desired effect.
For example:
I want to smile more, so every time I smile my brain lights up in
a particular predictable pattern, you capture individualized data
and when wearing it. Now as a consumer with my personalized
active cognitive enhancer I can in real time I get a vibrational
indicator or something. To whatever the consumer wants to bring
a conscious awareness to. The applications are endless really.
[] soc_awk_girl 3 points 4 years ago
That's very interesting as a question, I've been wondering about that too. How
would psychological problems impact the results... Would it lack presence in those
with psychiatric disorders, but in touch with reality, while showing disturbance in
those with personality disorders? What about flattened affect by PTSD? Would it,
for example, dull a person's use of Fe?
I was pitched into a cycle of frustration seeking the correct sorting of my own type
after constantly scoring inconsistently, and not understanding why, despite
answering consistently. My Ni and Ti were about to conceptually throttle somebody,
but then your test appeared and made things much clearer to me... I consistently
report a Ti>Fe preference, so on other tests that would show up as iNtj, which I
know I am not, because I hate Te... or being forced to use external organization in
any form... I hate having to use it so much, always have, I don't think there will be
any reconciliation. Ti, on the other hand, is one of my good buddies :D
How would psychological problems impact the results... Would it lack

presence in those with psychiatric disorders, but in touch with reality, while
showing disturbance in those with personality disorders? What about
flattened affect by PTSD? Would it, for example, dull a person's use of Fe?
That's exactly why I don't use personality typing in my work until much further
into the relationship. Initially, I focus on current behavioral expression. What's
going with my client now, where are they now?
As you mentioned, PTSD (disassociation, trauma, anxiety) can result in dramatic
skewing of information, both flattened and/or heightened. Typically, once we work
through the adaptive/masking behaviors (the things we learn to do to protect
ourselves (emotionally, psychologically)), a person's "true" identity begins to be
revealed.
Furthermore, often times, our resistances (what we hate/judge) are great
indicators of masking behaviors that are deeply ingrained to protect our psyche or
ego.
Thanks, that's as I had suspected. :D I had to work around and filter out
the impact my own PTSD and things had on me, and try to understand
where my defenses and natural biases lie through metacognition to even
get to the point of accepting the type I finally have settled on. I initially had
read about Jung, and actually found the game "Persona 4" very well
demonstrated shadow projection, which led me into type theory, and it is
the masking behaviors in behavioral psychology that probably intrigue me
the most. I love seeing through to the core of a person, even if they don't,
and to compensate for the ways I am naturally gullible, I focus on specific
points that can be applied on a more general level as assets to problem
solving. Micro-expressions make more since when you take type theory into
account and have established baseline behavior in a person, then I have
studied psychopath and sociopathy, among every other form of personality
disorder, and a large majority of abstract psych... hehe, I'm a aspie, and it's
part of my core obsession. I appreciate your research very much, it adds a
broad dimension to this puzzle, so that I realize the puzzle I had been
working on was really just the structure of a single piece. Eventually, I hope
to reach a point where there is a collectively applicable way to induce
epigenetics and either influence the DNA or mental circuitry through
conditioning or substances(through any form of metabolism, not just direct
brain-blood barrier passing of a salt) that will not only mask, but cure
psychiatric ailments, taking into consideration ways my methods may
attempted to be abused by those with mal intent, and taking counter-
measures. You're an inspiration, sir :D
I initially had read about Jung, and actually found the game "Persona
4" very well demonstrated shadow projection, which led me into type
theory, and it is the masking behaviors in behavioral psychology that
probably intrigue me the most.
That's really cool, I'll have to see if I can acquire that game and a
system to play it on!
I love seeing through to the core of a person, even if they don't, and to
compensate for the ways I am naturally gullible, I focus on specific
points that can be applied on a more general level as assets to problem
solving.
It's a beautiful thing to see a person's core isn't it? If you're curious into
the ways we all are naturally gullible, the science of persuasion and
marketing can be a real eye opener.
Micro-expressions make more since when you take type theory into
account and have established baseline behavior in a person, then I have
studied psychopath and sociopathy, among every other form of
personality disorder, and a large majority of abstract psych... hehe, I'm
a aspie, and it's part of my core obsession.
Check out Somatics by Thomas Hanna. It really goes into how the body
holds and expresses various experiences and how muscular and body
therapy modalities can be so effective at releasing "psychological" issues.
I hope to reach a point where there is a collectively applicable way to
induce epigenetics and either influence the DNA or mental circuitry
through conditioning or substances.
I have no doubt we already can. While I don't have the official scientific
research or evidence to prove it. I have no doubt that using the various
personal development techniques (NLP, CBT, Trauma therapies) are doing
that very thing. The future is now. We just have to support people like Dr.
Dario Nardi in gathering the evidence!
You're an inspiration, sir :D
Thank you for saying so, ENFP as charged!
[] raijba 5 points 4 years ago
In your "Lecture @ Google" you mentioned an INFP who played sports and had
irregularly high activity in a part of the brain that would be really good for playing
sports.
So is it nature or nurture? Did the increased brain activity in that region come from
playing the sports, or do you think he played sports because it satisfied some sort of
"craving" inherent to that part of his brain?
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Gosh, "chicken and egg" that is!

In general, I find males have more P3 activity. P3 is involved in some many things
around visual-spatial integration, from physical boundaries to arithmetic to team
sports, that it's hard to say what the drive is. No doubt my fellow academics in
social science would ascribe it all to culture or upbringing. I take more of a mixed
view, that nature provides an tendency and nurture may work with or against that.
In other ways, that student was classic INFP. In fact, we was the one who sustained a
solid blue EEG pattern while engaging in a political dialog for 10 minutes--a master of
active listening.
@Dr. Nardi,
I have some questions after a few years of deeply studying psychology, performing
longitudinal studies, and cross-examining results from different forms of personality
tests/synthesizing correlations and trying to form an appropriate theory...
In relation to typology, I am well aware of many contradictions between type theories,
but have been encouraging people to take your test for cognitive functions for years.
Because, as you said, people are messy, their are natural differences between function
levels when they self-report, but I have noticed some patterns in results over the
course of the past 3 years: when a person is of a given type pattern, though they may
not match the given function order exactly, the inversion of their original function
order tends to occur to reflect what the normal cognitive orientation may be. For
example, I have seen among iNfjs: Ni-Ne-Fe-Fi-Ti-(with some variation usually
involving the last three functions), but this pattern is true regardless of type...
Because of the pattern being so prevalent, when people ask for help interpreting their
results, I take their shadow into account as well. If somebody is unsure of if they are
an iNtj or an enTj, and their Te edges a bit ahead of their Ni, but they have a strong
identification with the iNtj profile, their functions would usually show Te-Ni-Ne-Ti-Fi-Fe-
Se-Si, and I use proportions of likelihood to help determine best fit according to the
test, and explain they are likely to be a iNtj despite the results saying enTj, because
the rest of their function order meets the iNtj profile very closely. Is this an
appropriate way of attempting to discern, given that I don't have access to equipment
other than an online assessment? (I do it over the internet, and you're so lucky ;P)
Have you noticed the pattern of types reporting an almost equal preference for each
function and its inverse while corresponding to a type pattern in your research, too?
You said the primarily we rely on our first two functions, but if our first two functions
are task-inappropriate, like a Ni-dom in a brainstorming session looking for many
different possibilities and not insistence that they use one in particular or criticism,
would the Ni-dom fall back on extraverted intuition instead?
Does the pattern indicate a preference, or is it reflective of the literal cognitive
orientation?
What is your understanding of the shadow in terms of what may trigger it, and how it
would translate into actuality?
Thank you so much for doing this for us, btw... I've seen interesting things happening
in the realm of MBTI, and hilarious mistyping because of the problems in the other
tests' structures...
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Glad to hear you are getting some good use out of that cognitive processes online
assessment, and it sounds like you've explore it more than I have. After a few
years of developing it, I stopped looking at the data as my interests went
elsewhere. So I can't confirm (or deny) your analysis method.
Culture and upbringing do a play part. So Americans need to know how to display
or mimic extraverted Thinking (TJ) behaviors. Whether their brains work that way
is another matter.
I do find people can over-estimate their proficiency with functions in the opposite
attitude. That is, an INFJ might report comfort doing Ne and Fi, and generally,
neither the behavior nor the brain activity support the self-assessment.
By way of anecdote, I recall an INFJ at a type conference engaging in my a chat
about analogies and how INFJs do these well. An ENFP and an INTP came over to
us and one of them cracked a joke. The joke was an abstract analogy that sounded
like jibber-jabber to someone who doesn't do Ne. But I've spent years with ENFPs
and I understood the joke immediately and added to it, though how I managed to
add to it effectively, well, that was pure random serendipity. The INFJ didn't get
the joke at all. In fact, she seemed unaware a joke had occurred. Nor could she
add to it. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if, in her creative writing time, that
INFJ effectively uses metaphor and such all over the place. But she can't do it in
real time or apply it on dozens of questions or problems at once.
In the EEG, I have never seen an INFJ or INTJ -- either college age or among the 3
midlifers -- meet the criteria for the "Christmas tree" pattern so common with ENTP
and ENFP, and present at times for INTP and INFP. That form of cross-contextual
thinking is just not happening in the brain.
I'm confident that people can learn to produce the "products" of all 8 functions.
Steve Myers has done some great work on "products" on the functions. But that's
different from actually using those functions.
[] undercoverhugger 2 points 4 years ago
Ah "Ne humor," fascinating stuff. It's interesting to hear you reference a

"Christmas tree pattern" being a common with Ne-doms. I also remember you
mentioning the "infp halo" in your Google video. Are there other shorthand
names you use for definitive patterns displayed by dominate functions? What
about introverted intuition?
I can not express my gratitude for your participating in this AMA. I'm sure the
fruits of your insights will resonant throughout this community, and hopefully
positively impact the platform for future discussion. Thank You.
There's the extraverted Sensing "tennis top", and in fact the extraverted
Thinking "economy mode" is very much like the tennis hop, but with less
alpha and more theta activity. Introverted intuiting is "zen state", though I
refer to that as "flow" state in general. The solid blue flow mode occurs for
most people when they do some activity for which they have expertise,
particularly creative expertise. Where dom-Ni folks differ is that they use this
mode to address challenge tasks for which they have no obvious expertise.
Brain-wise they act "as if" they are experts, which may explain why INTJs in
particular, and NJs in general, can sound so convincing at times on subjects for
which they have little actual experience.
[+] [deleted] 4 years ago (1 child)
What is "subconscious" or "unconscious"? Folks have been using this terms a fair
amount along with "shadow". Dr. Jung concerned himself with the question and
dynamics of consciousness. Let's steer away from his definitions for a moment to
consider what we know from the brain. Multiple options may be true.
What's unconscious is:
A. What we are not attending to at the moment. All that's required is to bring up a
topic or task to shift attention, though there may be defense mechanics to surmount.
B. What we lack a representation for. The limbic system is home to phobias, bonds,
drives, etc. When we observe our own behavior or get feedback, we start to develop a
mental model (that we store in our neocortex). Dialog and tools like personality type
are useful to build representations that provide a language, lens, lever, etc.
C. What is not developed or differentiated. Among the eight Jungian functions (aka
mental processes), a typical person shows clear activity for 2, less activity for 2 more,
and potentially some evidence for a few others. Perhaps with training and other means
of brain development, we might gain use of these. So here, unconscious actually
means "undifferentiated" or "undeveloped".
D. What we choose to reject as "other" or undesirable. We are aware of something,
maybe we can do it, and may even focus our attention on it, and we don't like it. It's
"not us". It's the enemy. There are ways to help people sort practical challenges (that
may be genuinely undesirable) from the people or qualities that embody those
challenges (and who are human too). Empathy and compassion are part of this.
E. What we reject without even awareness, that which is "shadow", undeveloped and
probably related to activity in the limbic system, but we lack mental models for it
(thus, don't understand it) and by definition, do not incorporate into our thinking,
beliefs, or lives.
I suspect there are other ways to talk about unconsciousness that is brain-based. This
is a start.
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[+] [deleted] 4 years ago* (1 child)

Dr. Nardi, what is your take on what some people have referred to as "primary-tertiary
loops?" I don't think she uses this phrase exactly, but in Lenore Thompson's
"Personality Type: And Owner's Manual" she talks about how some people develop
functions unevenly, resulting in difficulty or unbalanced personalities.
The most common pattern of this unevenness was a favoring of the first and third
functions which result in an INTJ, for example, favoring a perception-judgment combo
of Ni and Fi, and thus excluding the extroverted Te point of view. Conversely, an
extrovert would exclude her introverted point of view. Both lead to similar yet different
flavors of unbalance that make these people difficult.
Anecdotally, I've met some people who's behavior I could explain using the framework,
but I don't know if this hypothesis actually holds any water. What do you think? Was
there any research on things like this or explanations for personality weirdness in
general?
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Hi raijba. I'm afraid I have to go. However, I will keep answering questions when I
have the time over the coming week. Understanding un-balance and non-
sustainability of psyche are really important topics!
Much appreciation for everything you've written :) This is far and away the
most I've seen an AMA-ist contribute to his AMA.
I'm not familiar with this term and it's been a while since I read Lenore's book.
That said, yes, I imagine people get into these kinds of loops. INTJs can be
moralistically rigid when Ni and Fi combine in an unhealthy way. They can also
work together nicely when we use Fi to filter and/or question the products of Ni. By
question, I don't mean in a belittling way, but in a helpful way of adding texture
and meaning to Ni, or at least sorting out the wheat from the chaff. When Ni
produces a whole bunch of stuff, sometimes it's good to just ask, which of these
possible projects or visions is most important and focus on those. I haven't looked
at this concept in any deliberate way using EEG.
[] NPPraxis 1 point 4 years ago
Just wanted to chip in that I really like this question. I know an ENFP I would
strongly perceive as having Ne and Te as dominant functions and is particularly
narcissistic. I also know an older INTJ with a bad past who is a particularly
stubborn and difficult to reason with conspiracy theorist. (Ni-Fi?)
Anecdotally I have seen a ton of cases I feel like I could attribute to dominant-
tertiary loops.
[] Chodycody 3 points 4 years ago
Leave it to the intp to be late to the show...

Just want to say thank you for all your fantastic information! Basically all my questions
were answered.
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You're welcome :-).

[] anarkandi 2 points 4 years ago
Thanks for doing the AMA Nardi! I bought your book as a personalized pdf, and it was
very interesting. :) However, it kinda challenged some of my main theroies, for
example that J's use the left side of the brain, and that P's use the right, that
introverteds use the back, and that extroverts use the front. I have it written down
here: http://www.peoplerhetorics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/smiley.jpg
Compass regions for Feeling and Thinking Introversion. Explorer regions for Sensory
and Intuitive Extroversion. Articulator regions for Thinking and Feeling Extroversion.
Worldview regions for Introverted Sensing or Intuition.
I wonder if you'd throw this deviation out of the window immiditaly or if you think
there may still be some merit to this division? :)
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I get this question quite a bit, especially in relation to Benziger's presentation of

quadrants. I'd say the compass view has a 75% match with actual neocortex
organization. That's less a guesstimate and more from a count of regions and
subregion and their contributions and how those relate to the compass. For
example in the upper-right you have "worldview". It's quite true that the F8 region,
in the upper-right, is involved tremendously with our worldview. We can bring in T4
and even some of F4, as these relate to ethics, intentionality, and
concepts/categories. But what about the other subregions there? How do C4 and
half of F4 relate to worldview? Maybe if you had 8 regions... But then why not go
all the way and just explore the brain-map as is.
[] anarkandi 1 point 4 years ago
Have you considered that Worldviews will rely alot on compassing because
dominant functions work alot with our tertiary, which provides us with relief,
support and stimulation? May also explain why ISTP's and INFJ's are so alike in
your EEG scans, if you turn around the tertiary both types become incredibly
alike in most ways, and that may also lead to Ni-doms using the upper-right
area alot. Just my hyphothesis.
[] MrRozay 2 points 4 years ago
Dr. Nardi,
have you noticed any interesting patterns between 2 different types interpersonally?
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If you mean looking at two people's EEGs at the same time while they are
interacting, then no. Alas, one machine tapped my funding. Someday I'll do two or
more. Other people are looking at couples and small groups using EEG, though not
with Jungian/Myers-Briggs type in mind.
[] IanKettler 2 points 4 years ago
Dear Dr. Nardi, thank you for taking your time to do this AMA. I have a question about
a section of Marti Olsen Laney's book The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an
Extrovert World
A section of Laneys book maps out the human brain and explains how neuro-
transmitters follow different dominant paths in the nervous systems of Introverts and
Extroverts. If the science behind the book is correct, it turns out that Introverts are
people who are over-sensitive to Dopamine, so too much external stimulation
overdoses and exhausts them. Conversely, Extroverts cant get enough Dopamine, and
they require Adrenaline for their brains to create it. Extroverts also have a shorter
pathway and less blood-flow to the brain. The messages of an Extroverts nervous
system mostly bypass the Brocas area in the frontal lobe, which is where a large
portion of contemplation takes place. (page 71-75)
As stated in the book there should be done more research on this topic my question is
if this came up in your research and if not what are your thoughts on this quote?
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Hi Dr. Nardi! If you don't mind a personal question, would you say something about
why it is that you identify as an INTJ and how you think you are typical as well as
atypical for the type?
Yesterday I wrote this comment about how I see Fi as being higher in your function
stack than Te, and since then two others have agreed that you don't seem like an
INTJ:
First comment:
Yeah, I own his book and have seen him in videos. He really doesn't come across as
an INTJ or resonate as one much to me at all.
Second comment:
Nardi has always struck me as an SFP. He comes across fun loving and grounded.
Gasp, yes it's possible to be an intelligent and academic focused SFP. Surprise!
Of course your type doesn't matter for your work, but I would really appreciate if you
would indulge my curiosity nevertheless! :)
(Incidentally, have you ever scanned your own brain?)
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Some things to consider. I've been certified in type for over 20 years. I started in
the British school system in Barbados and went to university in Japan for a while.
I've done NLP and specifically sought to model new behaviors -- particularly as a
public presenter -- with a "Get Things Going" style (ENFP et al in particular). People
who know me sometimes ask, where is this public Dario the rest of the time? It
takes a fair amount of energy to maintain it. I'm also lucky enough to be studying
and reporting on something that is, by its nature, interesting and meaningful to
people, and worthy of passion. Of all the descriptions I've read over the years --
and I've read a lot -- I'd say all of the INTJ descriptions fit me to a "T". That is my
internal experience, even if people might see otherwise. More importantly, when
people treat me "as if" I'm an INTJ, particularly when I'm tired or stressed or
whatever, they get a good result. Treating me as if I'm an ENTP doesn't work, for
example, even when I might look like one :-).
Thanks for replying, I really appreciate it! :)

Here is what I, as an INTJ, think as I read your answer:
I've been certified in type for over 20 years.
I do not consider certification to be indicative of typing expertise.
I started in the British school system in Barbados and went to university in
Japan for a while.
What do these facts have to do with being an INTJ?
I've done NLP and specifically sought to model new behaviors -- particularly
as a public presenter -- with a "Get Things Going" style (ENFP et al in
particular).
Ok, so you're saying some of what we see of you on camera is learned
behavior? Would you specify what it is you do that you've had to learn?
I'm also lucky enough to be studying and reporting on something that is, by
its nature, interesting and meaningful to people, and worthy of passion.
It sounds like the direct impact on, and the reaction of, other people is
important to you? Not very INTJ methinks...?
I'm curious to know which other public people, dead or alive, you would name
who you think are INTJ and who resemble you?
Thanks again for indulging this personal line of inquiry! :)
Who's an INTJ? Maybe Ayn Rand, Hillary Clinton, Nikoli Tesla... don't really
know for sure, but I suppose I relate to such folks even if I might not agree
with them. Who do I identify with? How about Soren Kierkegaard and his
notion of "knight of faith". No idea what type Soren would be.
As for those other questions...
Behavior is the most outward and most pliable aspect of personality.
If we develop aspects of brain function, say the F7 region, then that shifts
more than cognitive capabilities. It influences how we feel and behave,
because behavior, thinking and emotions all interrelate. I've worked on the F7,
F4, P4, T4, and O2 regions in particular--mostly right brain stuff it turns out--
though I don't know about those regions at the time.
I prefer to model whole patterns through a semi-hypnotic process, to get an
organic and honest result, and of course modeling should be ecological with
self, relationships, environment, and goals. What I just said isn't a bunch of
abstract words. It means some very specific stuff if you are familiar with the
psychotherapeutic lingo.
I meet a fair number of INTJs who are so linear and left-brained that someone
has to draw them a diagram before they get the joke or the abstraction or
whatnot. I meet other INTJs who are much more organic and quick in their
understanding, they can fill in the skipped steps and hidden linkages, for
whatever reason.
Barbados has an ESFP culture--if we can correlate cultures with type-- and
living in a different cultural at an impressionable age of socialization will
influence a person. Living in other cultures also provides reference points,
perspectives to help separate "self" from "society". I forget how many people
don't think about culture or have never even left their own culture, even if
they have travelled widely.
As Linda Berens says, "When we know who we are, we are freer to be who we
are not." :-)
Thanks for getting back to me!

I like the Linda Berens quote, but I have to say I remain skeptical that it
is possible to transcend type to the degree that would be the case here.
For your information, Soren Kierkegaard, with whom you say you
identify, is widely considered to be an NF type.
Anyway, thanks again for indulging this personal line of inquiry, and
please keep up the good work! :)
I'd like to take a crack at my interpretation of your interpretation, for

funsies and because he clearly seems like an INTJ in videos and his writing.
I've been certified in type for over 20 years.
But combined with his research, it clearly is.
I started in the British school system in Barbados and went to university in
Japan for a while.
An international experience early highly influences N. Why? Because you are
exposed to many ways of thinking and living before your way of thinking is
set, and you tend to develop a global and relative perspective on everything.
I've done NLP and specifically sought to model new behaviors -- particularly
as a public presenter -- with a "Get Things Going" style (ENFP et al in
particular).
Ok, so you're saying some of what we see of you on camera is learned
behavior? Would you specify what it is you do that you've had to learn?
Typing has to do with cognitive processes and how someone thinks. It is highly
correlated with behavior, until someone is aware of their natural behavior.
Then, other behavior can be practiced and then used later that isn't quite their
natural self, such as going into presenter mode. Still, the 'mask' can't be worn
forever, but while it's on it can be hard to tell true type if you don't know what
to look for.
I find that that word choice, sentence structure, interpersonal communication,
and mannerisms when responding to questions or non rehearsed behavior is
highly telling of someone's true type. Watch for that, not rehearsed behavior
as much. It's all about asking the right questions.
I'm also lucky enough to be studying and reporting on something that is, by
its nature, interesting and meaningful to people, and worthy of passion.
It sounds like the direct impact on, and the reaction of, other people is
important to you? Not very INTJ methinks...? I'm curious to know which
other public people, dead or alive, you would name who you think are
INTJ and who resemble you? Thanks again for indulging this personal
line of inquiry! :)
Sharing a passion is exciting for anyone, especially when the audience is
interested. It's gives a sense of validation for the work. Fi and Fe both enjoy
the appreciation of others. Fi: "I feel good that people appreciate my work."
Fe: "I'm glad that I can entertain and interest these people."
You seem like a very left brained INTJ. Lots of Fp1, F3, C3, T3 and (right) F8.
This isn't criticism or anything, just calling it as I see it. Very preferred aux Te
function.
Doing an expertise is generally associated with a state of flow, which can be
easily misinterpreted with the Tennis Hop of SP. Presenting can also seem very
F because it is practiced.
But to me, I see the Ni and then Te. He gets these insights of people from
brain scans and instinct (Ni) and categorizes and explains (Te). Contrast this
with watching someone and linking their mannerisms to figure out a type (Ne)
and then analyzing (Ti) which an ENTP (me) does. And anything SP/SJ/F just
doesn't fit in my mind at all, but that's probably because I recall groups of
people of certain types I know and how they interact and then compare.
(Again, very Ne-Ti). So -NTJ is definite, and then he says he's an I himself.
Also, he's very cerebral imo. ENTJ's seem to be a little bit more ... active and
more expressive with their movement. And they are quicker to jump to an
explanation.
But that's just my analysis. Everyone has their own style. :)
Let me reply to your first two points first:

But combined with his research, it clearly is.
How exactly would certification improve one's typing expertise? I'm not
certified, but a close friend of mine is and he told me that he didn't learn
a single thing at the certification workshop that he didn't already know
and also that he knew more than the people administering the
workshop. Hence it seems to me that in a group of MBTI enthusiasts
discussing a given typing, it is irrelevant to mention that one is certified.
It doesn't lend one's typing more credence.
An international experience early highly influences N. Why? Because
you are exposed to many ways of thinking and living before your way
of thinking is set, and you tend to develop a global and relative
perspective on everything.
Are you saying that one's upbringing affects whether one becomes an N
type? Personally I believe type is mostly genetic. Edit: And I know lots
of Sensers who grew up in expat families and were 'exposed to many
ways of thinking and living' early on. They still prefer Sensing.
1) My mistake, I agree with you. I read it as Dario was an expert,

not necessarily someone who is certified.
2) I think it's more 50/50 (or similar) because the brain is highly
influenced by the environment as it develops. Even with expat
families (I'm one), they can still be quite isolated with whom the
interact with. i.e. Bubbles of expats... The kids may not be truly
exposed to the culture on a personal level. Also, it depends on how
controlling the parents are, or even someone's emotional reaction to
other cultures.
A loose metaphor is that genetics is the size of the canvas, and the
environment is the painting. A huge canvas can hold a small or large
painting, but a small canvas can only be painted on so much. (In this
case, the small painting = S, large = N) ... Maybe this is why N= 25%
and S=75% roughly for the population. 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/4 So in this
senario genetics is more influential, but not totally.
The plasticity of the brain forces me to believe though that environment
is a factor. And a international experience only tends to cause N, not
force it.
In the absence of good studies we'll have to agree to disagree on

the influence of nurture vs. nature in the determination of type.
However, even if I thought an international upbringing was a
factor in determining N/S, if someone were to ask me to explain
why I identified as an INTJ because they didn't think I seemed
like one, I would never think to counter with this piece of
information. So long as it is not uncommon to have an
international upbringing and nevertheless prefer Sensing,
mentioning an international upbringing does nothing to convince
the questioner. It is irrelevant.
So in his answer about why he identifies as an INTJ, Dario Nardi
started out with two irrelevant pieces of information, and though
I don't care to go exhaustively through his answer, the rest of it
only further reinforces my impression that he is not an INTJ. I
believe any INTJ who didn't know who Dario Nardi was would
agree. (I add the caveat because so many INTJs mistakenly think
anyone they admire must be another INTJ.)
[] MagicNine 2 points 4 years ago
I would quote the abstract of this paper:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9529660
The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator was administered to a
sample of 61 monozygotic twins reared apart (MZA), 49
dizygotic twins reared apart (DZA), and 92 spouses, who
participated in the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart
(MISTRA) from 1979 to 1995. Twins' scores on the
continuous scales were subjected to behavior genetic
model-fitting procedures. Extraversion-Introversion and
Thinking-Feeling yielded heritabilities of about .60,
consisting largely of nonadditive genetic variance.
Sensing-Intuition and Judgment-Perception yielded
heritabilities of about .40, consisting largely of additive
genetic variance. Spouse correlations for three of the four
scales were near zero and not statistically significant; one
spouse correlation (Sensing-Intuition) was modestly positive
and statistically significant.
So there is clearly some genetic correlation with .60 and .40,
but clearly there is also a difference which must be
environmental. Just the fact that I can choose to develop certain
functions if I focus and practice them over several years clearly
shows that there is an environmental factor. The brain adapts;
there is no doubt.
And he's not you. He was just typing, stream of thought
probably. I think you're over analyzing it. You can't type
someone on a post that short. You have to read tons and see
how someone interacts with the world in the moment to even
begin drawing conclusions.
lol He's not you, you're not him, I'm not you. We all do our own
thing. I think you're drawing premature conclusions, which
tends to be a J behavior at times.
I've watched his entire Google talk and another, shorter

video and read his book as well as several of his articles.
I'm not typing him from a post that short. Methinks you're
the one jumping to a conclusion here.
And thanks for the study, but I stand by my claim that an
INTJ would not choose to explain his type the way Dario
Nardi did.
[] Choogly 2 points 4 years ago
Hi, just reading through the comments here and your replies to them has been very
exciting. Finally, someone mapping cognitive functions to areas of the brain! Maybe it's
been done, but I've never seen it done before (and explained so clearly too!).
A bit self centered of me to ask, but which area of the brain is associated with Fi, and
what are the kinds of tasks this area usually handles?
Have you done any neuroimaging research on the Fi-Si loop in INFPs? I'd be interested
in knowing how that manifests itself physically.
Also, do your books describe each function and their corresponding region in the brain?
I'd love to learn about that. As it stands now, I'm still quite ignorant about the
cognitive functions, especially compared to everyone here. I know what they mean and
have a rough idea of how they work, but a neuroscientific model would be very helpful
to getting a real grasp on them.
Your research is very inspiring to me as a psychology student by the way, keep up the
good work!
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Sure thing... I'd say each function shows up as a pattern rather than in a specific
brain region, those certain regions are often used as really effective ways to meet a
person's psychological needs.
My book, "Neuroscience of Personality", does describe each of the 8 functions,
based on the brain results.
Here are some highlights for introverted Feeling.
--Evaluate personal importance along a spectrum from love/like to dislike/hate.
Shows as moderate to high activity in F8 region. --Use whole brain to listen to
others. Shows as solid light blue (delta waveband) across the entire neocortex for
up to 10 minutes at a time (though usually less). --Attentive and curious what is
not said, yet hard to embarrass and often don't use feedback. Shows as activity in
T5 region, but only when not engaged in conversation, often when lacking social
feedback. However, once the feedback is given, the region goes quiet, as the
dominant-Fi type tends to not adjust their behavior just to make others happy.
--Focus on word choice and voice tone. Major activity in regions T3 and T4. --May
have strong response to specific words. Shows as spikes in F8 region when they
hear words or speak words that represent what's very important to them (my
guitar, my dad, competence, etc).
[] Choogly 1 point 4 years ago
Thanks! What you wrote was very interesting, I'll have to look up the
regions/patterns you described. What's strange is that it's not hard to
embarrass me, and I'm quite sure I'm INFP. Then again, I'm a bit atypical as
far as INFPs go, which made typing myself quite difficult. Hope I get a chance
to read your book!
Hello Dr. Nardi, I have a question. I have recently become interested in

graphoanalysis, and I was wanting to ask if you have any special perspectives on how
that might tie in with MBTI? Or does it at all?
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There is a book I enjoyed some 20 years ago by Andrea McNichol, who worked for
the FBI. It's "Handwriting Analysis: Putting It to Work for You". While it doesn't
mention type specifically (if I recall), I was learning type at the time and saw a
variety of connections, such as backward slanted writing and Thinking preference.
Okay. Thanks for the reply, I will look into this.

[] hmwith ENFP 2 points 4 years ago

Thanks so much for doing this. You're fantastic. I know that I'm really late to the show,
but I've been really into the MBTI for several years, but there's something that's kind
of a gray area, as far as what I've read: typology in regards to those with personality
disorders.
Could you provide more information about how personality disorders can affect
function use? Could one perhaps be using incorrect functions, or having them brought
into play by his/her disorder(s)?
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[] soc_awk_girl 1 point 4 years ago
I know some of the following questions are a bit left-field, and may be out of line with
your direct field of study, but as somebody who is a psychology professor, because
your specialty lies with neuroscience, I was hoping you could answer some other
questions I have.
How do you think cognitive orientation develops? Do you believe it is genetic, starts in
the prenatal environment, occurs through conditioning, is a product of circumstance, a
combination(in that case, could you guesstimate a proportional distribution)?
Is it true that the Perceiving functions/Irrational functions are more stagnant in terms
of capacity, and less confluent in development or do you think certain developmental
stages are key for development of given functions?
Are we born predisposed to a dominant function, and might it be because despite
being in the womb, we still have senses, and therefore can begin assimilating
information depending on what sensory information we are exposed to, causing the
connections to become so deeply wired, that to undo them would require completely
destroying our whole brain structure through something like trauma?
How flexible is personality type in general? Can a paradigm shift in a given person, not
just a Ni-dom, instigate a whole new orientation, or would it just cause a push towards
another direct... in which case, what would the cognitive orientation be?
I have seen so many people mix up what "cognitive preferences" mean, as some
believe preferences in that context literally means what you prefer, and interpret that
as meaning they can change personality types completely as they change function
usage. I've also seen people who think that dominant function automatically equates to
objective superior use of that function in relation to types who don't possess it as a
dominant function... When you say "cognitive preference," is the understanding you
use it by more in line with the terminology cognitive orientation, because it is
something more along the lines of sexual orientation, involving unconscious drives,
rather than something we purely alter consciously?
...it's a source of mass confusion throughout the MBTI community. When applied to
the bell curve and fluid intelligence, is it possible for somebody who has a genius
score, but greater disparity between their dominant and auxiliary functions than
another individual to actually have a higher level of mastery including application of
that function appropriately and swiftly?
Is it true that an iNfj may have better mastery of introverted thinking than a inTp,
despite Ti being their tertiary preference?
Do you believe intuition is directly tied to high scores in fluid intelligence because of the
way it probes for capacity in generalized problem solving and pattern recognition in a way
that corresponds to the use of generalized intuition as understood by your theory?
Hypothetically, if somebody were to experience a manic episode of bi-polar disorder,
would their cognitive use switch to the more extraverted form of their core preference, or
would they engage in their extraverted functions more?
Likewise, would depression have an adverse effect? -I'm really just interested in guesses
here, or any other well-versed individual who could contribute. It's okay if you haven't
done the formal research; I'm interested because I have been formally diagnosed with bi-
polar disorder, and in a manic phase, I experience a longwinded flight of ideas, and
transition into a state infused with high energy levels like I would not normally experience
at my baseline. I've noticed my intuitive thought pattern becomes less focused and
willing to follow through with an idea that may be brilliant because it is constantly
interrupted by an influx of novel ideas, and it's more difficult for me to follow through
with the development and fruitation of a goal to the end; my Ne bounces all over the
place. Is it possible for the cognitive orientation, under that circumstance, to change after
being conditioned since the onset of an illness to fall into a different functional pattern
depending on mood state, thus allowing a person to experience separate lines of
cognitive functions and enhanced creativity when compared to the general population?
Bi-polar disorder has come to be known as the primary disorder correlated with creative
genius in the scientific community for psychology as I currently understand based upon
abstracts and several results from studies that have been generated and added to Google
Scholars references/archives online, as well as reported through the media...
Between transitions between extreme highs and lows of energy, and the way the
resulting thoughts merge together to produce new ideas, how might this translate to
cognitive orientation and consequently cause the reputation and notoriety bi-polar
disorder has acquired?
Since individuals with bi-polar disorder are over represented in the artistic and linguistic
community, and even in the fields of science, is it possible that the source of this
creativity comes from the propendency to shift gears involuntarily, bearing in mind
memory is state dependent, bearing unexpected results that would not follow if the
person's energy level was more normalized?
Since we each have a certain amount of electricity allocated to each part of the brain on
average, and the distribution changes situationally, reinforcing neural connections, would
people who require less material resources to produce the same amount of electricity
neurologically tend to have deeper brain patterns and developed functions, and would
this tie back into fluid intelligence or the G-factor in IQ?
Typing your theory back to Phineas Gage, what are the implications of brain damage and
neuroplasticity after brain damage?
What cognitive functions are the most influenced brain the elastic factor, and is it
dependent on personality, do you think it might be a common human characteristic
(translation of personality, as I have read, is conveyed through the prefrontal cortex or
frontal lobes)?
How much of our behavior, in terms of neuroticism, resiliency, experiencing of emotions
and such? (is that Si, rather than Fe/Fi because Fx functions are judging functions based
on morality rather than sensation or the perception thereof without value judgments
reflective of our moral compass?)
What are some major differences two individuals of the same cognitive orientation may
experience?
In terms of Tx vs. Fx types, is it true that because each type would tend to have
underdeveloped inferior functions that act in a form of opposition to the dominant, would
it mean that Tx types spend less time forming moral judgments on average than they do
basing their values on correctness of a situation, to the point of lacking tact, though more
so in types with a Fi inferior as opposed to a Fe inferior, and Fx types are less efficient in
terms of basing goals on objective criteria devoid of ethical values, or that may even
contradict their values?
Why is there a tendency for the cognitive functions outside of our primary to drain out
energy when they are still in our primary function order (despite the anima potential
energizing us from the follow through of the adult function's aspirations)?
Is our dominant function's pattern of neural firing reinforced by a dopamine release, by a
lack of the experience of energy being drained because of the depth and ease of
connections from prior development, a lack of some other neurochemical's bioavailability,
and when do you guess it might be safest to say when a personality type's functional
pattern is clear enough that we may assume with a good probability a person's best fit
pattern is set, assuming nothing happens to interrupt natural development?
What causes us to preference one Adult function over the other potential one that would
follow our dominant function?
If somebody is born with a physical disability, for example being born deaf, would that
cause an individual to develop intuition more to compensate, or would the energy be
transferred to development of other sensing functions instead if they're a dominant
sensing type?
I have been wondering these things forever. Educated guesses would be so well
appreciated but I know better than to take your response, if you say not to, as being your
final word and anything more than a theory based on your current assimilated system of
understanding regarding theory you have learned of or produced.
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How might cognitive orientation develop? I suspect like a lot of other things, it's
either 50/50 nature/nature, or it's 33% each of genetics, womb environment, and
upcoming. Or something similar.
I suspect these factors make wiring fairly strong and hard to change in later life.
However, if someone experiences trauma following a rich positive early childhood,
then I believe that person can greatly recover given the right interventions, perhaps
by "rewinding" to a previous, healthy sense of self.
In hypnosis utilizing Timeline Therapy (Tad James, et al), it's helpful to return to
positive memories in early childhood and anchor into those.
Are Perceiving functions/Irrational functions more stagnant in terms of capacity?
Maybe not. That sounds like the POV of the Rational functions. The Irrational functions
are just harder to talk about. I suspect the E--P types develop in their capacities just
as much as everyone else.
Having used type for 20 years, among the people I've known through the time, none
have changed type, in my opinion. However, their esteem, emphasis, and expression
of type have varied, sometimes markedly along E/I dimension in particular depending
on confidence, fit with environment, intimate relationships, etc.
Yes, I agree the word "preference" is confusing. I don't know if it meant something a
little different 70 years ago (Isabel Myers' early era in type). Is "orientation" is a
better term today? People still interpret that as an absolute category (like sexual
orientation) rather than like handedness (where we require both working well
together, but one in the lead). Instead of saying "prefer Intuiting" we should probably
say "lead with Intuiting" with words like "start" and "default" also fairly appropriate.
Just a thought: Imagine if we understood politics or religion or sexuality or such in the
way we are asked to understand type. I suspect we are wired to resist the kind of
thinking asked by type.
Regarding general intelligence, I've met INFJs with more accurate mental models and
effective definitions than their INTP counterparts in the same technical domain.
Similarly, I can imagine an ESFP having more effective organizing skills than her ESTJ
peer. I've seen ENFJs with more effective use of extraverted Sensing than ISTPs in
the same domain. There are many possible reasons: -- better integration of self and
the various functions -- an environment that is more appropriate (e.g. INTP alchemist
versus ISFP chemist--who does chemistry better?) -- different developmental space
(or developmental level, if you're into that)
I've encountered evidence of "intelligent" and "stupid" versions of most types. Some
mask it well. For example, ENFPs can fake being highly intelligent by mimicking the
intelligent people around them and/or confounding their extraverted Intuiting with
being intelligent. But to match a genuinely smart ENFP versus a pretend-smart one...
makes me laugh.
These statement beg what I mean by "smart" and "intelligent". I don't buy into
definitions of these that exclude selection pressures. So "generalized problem solving"
doesn't mean much to me. Solving of what problems? I won't get too much into this,
except to say that I prefer to consider mental processes that lead to behaviors that
experience environmental and evolutionary pressures. Coming from this point of view,
being "smarter" isn't better. In fact, it involves being in a niche, at the sidelines of the
general population pool. The "average smarts" ENFP might be much more effective
and satisfied in everyday life compared to a genius ENFP simply because he sits at the
middle of population mean. Maybe smart means you have more children who survive
to have children? Or you more effectively spread more memes? Tough questions.
I don't know much if anything about dysfunction like manic-depression, bipolar, etc.
It's not my thing, just like Transactional Analysis is a really powerful tool, but it offers
a way of viewing people that I feel is too negative for my taste. That said, my guess is
that manic-depression involves a see-saw between the left and right prefrontal
cortexes. And with regard to creativity, studies link "ah ha moments" during problem
solving to a switch over from the left to right hemispheres (namely, from the Fp1-P3
trunk to the Fp2-P4 trunk). So your hypothesis is plausible.
Regarding electricity allocation, when analyzing voltage measures as picked up by the
EEG, I was sort of surprised to learn that all regions actually generate the same
average voltage across all individuals. What varies from region to region (and person
to person) is the statistical variance of voltage. That is, for region X, one person
might show a fairly steady voltage while another person might show wild swings in
voltage; yet the average voltage is the same for both of them. The wildly-swinging
regions seem related to regions we tend to rely on more, though not exactly. The idea
is that a well-used region might be less active because it's efficient, yet it's also a
favorite region (we are motivated to use it), so when presented with challenges, it
easily gets really revved up.
Personality only seems to be "housed" or "conveyed" through the pre-frontal regions
because that's where all the integration takes place. It's like looking at a company of
100 people and saying only the top 2 executive officers house or convey the
company's personality. That's not entirely inaccurate, but it's misleading. By way of
analogy, network analysis of intra-company emails show that many times there are
individuals in a company of no particular official importance who nonetheless drive
most of the company's productivity, values, opinions or whatnot. Also, some people
show relatively much more activity in the prefrontal regions than other regions, at
least in my lab environment. Among these are the dominant extraverted Intuiting
types (ENFP and ENTP) along with most introverted types.
Emotions, behavior, and cognition are all blended together in the brain. Separately
them out is a simplification. For example, facial analysis, responsiveness to social
feedback, and feelings of embarrassment are all tangled up. So I don't attribute
specific functions as helping as be more or less implicated in emotional satisfaction or
competence. That said, introverted Thinking correlates to theta-waves, which
correlate with suppressing the intrusion of distracting limbic signals into the
neocortex. So there is a particular "emotional climate" related to each function.
With regard to Feeling versus Thinking types, some research about EQ and type (by
Roger Pearman?), strongly suggested that Feeling types develop emotional
competencies in a particular, steady order that affords decent coverage of all the
competences, while Thinking types develop emotional competences to meet
environmental demands, often in a haphazard order, and thus can be quite adept in
some emotional areas and severely deficient in others. I use the term "EQ" as a
reference to the work. It's not a system I attend to much, at least how it's used in
corporate America. Similarly, I've met Feeling types have very solid logical reasoning
skills in limited domains, often mistaking those competencies with general logical
reasoning, which tends to be more much evenly developed in Thinking types. To this,
we should add general intelligence is still an issue, as discussed above.
Regarding the inferior function and energy (what Jung called libido)... Personally, as
an INTJ, I find certain forms of extraverted Sensing greatly relaxing and energizing,
while many other forms are draining. When I was in Australia last year, I was
incredibly energized by scuba diving and feeding animals. Yet an ESFP can wear me
out very quickly, mainly due to their very high pace and demand for rapid responses.
I prefer ISFPs for that reason--much slower pace and enjoyment of the pleasant
sensations.
I don't know much about neurotransmitters, so I can't comment about dopamine.
What prompts your auxiliary/parent/adult function? I don't know, and I'm not sure
the psyche works like that. I tend to think in terms of 16 whole types, each with its
unique themes. Each type is an organic pattern, a strange attractor. The 8 functions
models is a fairly formal framework we use to analyze those patterns, but the sum of
those functions don't equal the type pattern. I hope that makes sense.
Someone might ask, why not 32 or 64 types, or whatever? Warning: What I'm about
to say is very esoteric. If you look at a fractal like one generated by the Logistic
Equation (http://www.stsci.edu/~lbradley/seminar/images/bifurcation.gif), you'll
often see that bifurcation goes from 1 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 8, and then it starts to breaks
down, slowly at first (8 to 16 okay, 16 to 32 maybe), but then quite rapidly (there are
not 64 clear bifurcations there. Having personally played with fractals, I've seen this a
lot.
I suspect congenital physical disability affects expression of personality, brain
development, etc. But I couldn't say how. That's not my area.
[] DomMk 1 point 4 years ago*
I'm not Dario but I do have some knowledge on a few of your questions so I'll shed
some of my insight, whether it will be useful or not is up in the air :p
Is it true that an iNfj may have better mastery of introverted thinking than a
inTp, despite Ti being their tertiary preference?
I'm not exactly sure how familiar you are with Jung's work so I apologize if this is
just a rehash of what you already know. I hope Dario does take the time to answer
your questions, especially the ones on functions as I am also quite interested.
Seeing as you are a professional psychologist if you do see some inaccuracies
within what I have said or have insight of your own to add then please don't
hesitate to reply! :)
Jung's work has to do with type and functions within the conscious and
unconscious. Your Dominant and Auxiliary functions are what make up your
conscious and Tertiary and Inferior functions your unconscious. The dominant has
the greatest presence within the conscious and your inferior function, which is
opposite in attitude, has the greatest presence within the subconscious.
Nowhere does he explicitly state anything about the relative mastery or superior use
of ones particular functions, only about their presence.
Functions are developmental but to say that an INFJ could have greater mastery of Ti-
-which is apart of their subconscious--compared to an INTP whose Ti is ultimately is
their most developed and differentiated function--which takes up the greatest part of
their conscious--might be a bit of a stretch.
It would be akin to theorizing an ISTP having greater mastery of Ni than an INFJ or an
INTJ having greater mastery of his Fi than an INFP. Assuming infinite variability and
possibility then chances are may be people such as those I mentioned above but
realize that even though that Jung never stated it couldn't happen he never said that
it could either.
There is a lot about human cognition that we do not know, if we were to stick with
Jungs work then the only thing we know for sure is the dominant function exists
within the conscious and the suppressed inferior function exists within the
subconscious (which is opposite in attitude to the dominant). It was actually Myers
who came to the conclusion that, through interpretation of Jungs work and various
experiments/tests of her own, there exists an additional auxiliary and tertiary
functions (which are opposing in attitude to the dominant and inferior, respectively)
within the subconscious and conscious.
The deeper you go the more you realize that lot of information about the functions
that isn't from Jungs original work are result of conjecture and interpretation, it is a
breath of fresh air to see people like Dario producing something more empirical for a
change.
[] AncientSpirits [S] 1 point 4 years ago
I will try to come back to your question over the next week (my next 3 days are
really busy). There are a lot of things to ponder here.
[+] [deleted] 4 years ago* (1 child)
[] onthejourney 1 point 4 years ago
Thanks again for doing this. After reading your answers here, I did a crash course on
your material via Google :D
1) Any plans to have your apps "Personality Types" and "Love Therapy" made for
Android?
2) When you say an area has activity (low/high), does this correlate to any of the
specific brainwaves (beta, alpha, theta, delta) or simply high activiy that could span
across all the brainwave frequencies?
3) Regarding the development of a portable EEG, is this something that a layman could
purchase for their own research or is it a proprietary device? Along the same lines, is
your raw data available for people like myself to cross-reference with our own work?
4) I noticed that you had a link to bio-medical.com on your site. Is that the source of the
equipment and software that you use? If so, can you share specifically what models and
versions of their product and software that you use in your research?
5) Would you be willing to share any speculation/possibilities/curiosities as a result of
your research on any of Jung's more esoteric ideas ? (ie, collective unconscious,
animus/anima, etc)
Some other general comments.
As an ENFP, I've tamed a lot of my brain activity through the practice of meditation (daily
and having gone to a 10 day silent meditation course - I run about 50/50 E/I). Just
throwing it out there, I'd love to see mediation as a variable amongst same and differing
MTBI types. Ann Holm mentions a little about it here -
http://www.annholm.net/tag/christmas-tree-brain/
In your Google talk, you talk about engagement = motivated and/or competent, in
particular to the handwriting exercises which I loved as it fundamentally boils down to the
subjects assigned meaning to the task. In using various CBT techniques (Cognitive
behavioral therapy), we actually work to disengage parts of the brain (typically limbic
related) that are conditioned/associated to firing for a given thought process. Since the
perceived meaning is built on historical context and experience, using NLP, one can
remap this historical context and experience as it is typically tied to emotional content
through the amygdala. It's just great to see additional evidence of the processes at work
in the brain.
In your Google talk, you talk about the CEOs of your brain, I thought I'd mention a book
you might be interested in. It's called "Why everybody else is a hypocrite: Evolution and
the Modular Mind" by Robert Kurzban
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1) Presently, no plans to port Personality Types or Love Therapy due to the cost. I
approached Google to do a swap of services. After all their HR department uses
type and invited me to speak! But they weren't interested.
2) When I say a region is high/low activity, this is a blend of amplitude and
frequency. The brain gives off signals that are measured as voltage. The voltage
levels go up and down in waves, like a sine wave. The voltage is then analyzed to
determine how much of each frequency is present. Sometimes a region will be low
amplitude and high frequency, or vice versa, or high or low in both. So for the
purpose of the book, and for statistics, I needed a way to condense the
information.
3) The back of the book, page 194, describes the equipment I used. The particular
model, Mindset 1000, is no longer available but later models are available. My raw
data is available as data files as are the programs I use to process the raw data,
but I won't be giving out anything until my patent is processed. The upcoming
version 2.0 version of the book will coincide with the patent, hopefully, and contain
more of the original data, and well as having the data available to folks.
4) bio-medical.com was the place, though I haven't looked at them in a while. My
next round up of gear (the portable EEG caps) will surely come from elsewhere.
5) I posted elsewhere in this past hour about consciousness (including unconscious
and subconscious). I suspect these are broad terms that point to multiple related
phenomena. In terms of archetypes, we'd need to operationalize those in some way. I
haven't ventured there yet. They might explain some differences between types.
I have all my EEG subjects do some meditation. Recently, a had a 60 year old ENTJ.
He has been practicing various medication techniques for two decades. He tried two.
They had much less of an affect on his brain activity than he was hoping for. They
quieted his brain, but then ENTJs and ESTJs already have fairly efficient brain activity.
He was hoping they would link him more to his body and other people, perhaps by
inducing more alpha or activity in regions F7 or whatnot. Of the two, one was fairly
successful in that respect.
What you just said about CBT etc... YES!
I'll take a look at that book, thank you for the reference!
[] omfgninja 1 point 4 years ago
I have about 78 questions, but I'll only ask one. What are your thoughts on the court
cards?
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They make for a fun exercise in the lab. When I asked people to craft stories from
a handful of randomly drawn cards, it's amazing what people focus on and their
process to make the stories. For example, some people are really concerned about
the intended meanings of the cards, even asking what they mean, while others just
use the imagery as jumping off points.
[] omfgninja 2 points 4 years ago
I would love to see what people have to say about them. What made you think
of adding the cards as part of your experiment process? Also, if you don't mind
me asking, what deck are you using for this? RWS? I'm quite curious.
[] MrRozay 1 point 4 years ago*
Dr Nardi, One more question. Could you explain how frequency and amplitude play a
role in the typology EEG patterns? (Or maybe point me in a direction that explains it)
permalink embed
The EEG cap picks up voltage (mV), which is a measure of electrical force, from
each of the cap's pick-ups. The amount of voltage rises and falls over time
(fractions of a second) like a sine wave. As we look at the voltage data, we see
waves, and the character of those waves -- coming fast or slow -- is called
frequency (Hertz). The height of those waves is then called amplitude. Since EEG
data is messy rather than highly regular, we can't really say exactly which frequency
is "the" frequency, only which one or ones are dominant. To simplify things, EEG folks
group the frequencies into bands (delta, theta, alpha, beta, gamma). So even when I
say the whole EEG map was green (theta band), that just means a particular set of
waves were more present in the voltage than some other sets of waves.
The EEG machine represents data in various ways, each using a slightly different
algorithm or window. So when I run the experiments, I see the same raw data
processed various ways, each in a different window, providing slightly different
information. A common representation uses colors to represent frequency bands
(such as blue for delta) and brightness or dullness of the color to represent amplitude.
But there are other views that use bars to represent amplitude, and so forth.
With that out of the way, I describe in "Neuroscience of Personality" a variety of
correlations between personality type and frequencies and amplitudes. For example,
"solid bright blue" relates to a flow or waiting state, where all regions of the neocortex
are dominated by very high amplitude delta waves. Anyone might show this pattern.
The link to type is what tasks or events correlate with it. Then there is the "Christmas
tree" pattern typical of Ne types. That pattern is high amplitude combined with a
range of ever-changing frequencies. In contrast, the "tennis hop" pattern has the
ever-changing frequencies but is very low amplitude.
[] MagicNine 1 point 4 years ago*
I've thought of some more questions as I've been observing communication between
types to maybe clarify the nuerobiology behind what I've seen. No hurry though, just
some random stuff.
Only Ne dom/aux types tend to see Christmas Tree patterns, correct?
When someone gets excited, what type of activity do you see? Is excitement all blue
flow, or more red high activity in the dominant areas of a person's brain? Do some
types get and lose excitement more easily, while others don't get excited as often but
once they are they stay in that state longer?
When a more left brained type is tested on creativity related tasks, what usually
happens? Do they try to use the right brain at all, and to what extent? I guess I'm
asking if other types show TCT in some way.
Do some types talk faster, while other types pause more when thinking, and how does
this correlate to any areas or patterns of brain function?
Have you ever seen a difference in how a type functions when the same task is
presented in a different way? i.e., Using different words, long vs. short explanations,
abstract vs. concrete explanations, directing a subjects behavior vs. self directing
subjects, etc.
More from anecdotal experience, do you see different activity in "smarter" vs "dumber"
subjects.
Do some types struggle with expressing what they're thinking with the right words?
Any related activity?
Do you measure/observe the corpus callosum at all, beyond watching out for TCT?
You said there's more activity in Fp1/Fp2 for dom Ne and introverted types. Do you think
this explains loosely why it's said ENTP's are the most introverted of the extroverts? Also,
would the higher activity in the region for all these types be associated with feeling more
removed from one's environment, kind of like being a bit more cerebral. It's a little hard
to explain what I'm trying to get at.... like, does greater activity tend to correlate with
someone that has a "stronger mind"? i.e. More mind over body consciousness... or just a
more conscious person maybe
And this one is kind of unrelated, but a huge question for me I've researched endlessly:
What is consciousness on the atomic/chemical/molecular level, physically? Of course we
don't know fully, but to what extent do we know. I've read a ton about the physical
structure of memory and whatnot, so know I'm more interested in the inner workings of
the PFC.
Thank you again. Lol... I'm a biz/econ major with a minor in accounting and most of a
math minor, but I've never been so into anything such as this. Time to shift careers
maybe? :p
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a few functions working together, or a SJ, Introverted Sensors:

load more comments (4 replies) rntksi INFP

Unverified I'm a Certified MBTI practitioner. AMA. (self.mbti)

Socionics How all types use their 8th function (leontsao.com)

General Discussion Am I the only one... (self.mbti)

Question What is the most accurate test online? (self.mbti)

General Discussion What ''group'' were you in in high school? (self.mbti)

General DiscussionINTJ vs ISTJ (self.mbti)

[] AncientSpirits [S] 21 points 4 years ago

[] onthejourney 6 points 4 years ago

[] [deleted] 2 points 4 years ago

Ooo, that's actually really interesting to hear. Ty!

[] AncientSpirits [S] 7 points 4 years ago

[] Human_Paladin INTJ 8 points 4 years ago

Simple question: What do you identify as? As in type.

[] AncientSpirits [S] 9 points 4 years ago

[] Sociacademic 2 points 4 years ago*

Thanks for doing this!

[] wolfgangpaulig 4 points 4 years ago

Everybody's personality changes when they go up on stage!!! I know this

[] AncientSpirits [S] 4 points 4 years ago

[] Sociacademic 4 points 4 years ago*

[] wolfgangpaulig 3 points 4 years ago*

[] possibeerlity 3 points 4 years ago*

[] Sociacademic 1 point 4 years ago

Hi possibeerlity, I don't know if you saw, but I sent you a message.

[] Remcy 6 points 4 years ago

[] AncientSpirits [S] 6 points 4 years ago

[] JustOneIndividual 1 point 4 years ago

[] IchBinLecher 1 point 3 years ago

[] Sociacademic 7 points 4 years ago

Please come back tomorrow!

[] AncientSpirits [S] 9 points 4 years ago

[] onthejourney 6 points 4 years ago

[] Sociacademic 2 points 4 years ago

[] cmVkZGl0 1 point 4 years ago

I can't wait now.

[] NPPraxis 7 points 4 years ago*

Hello Mr. Nardi!

[] AncientSpirits [S] 11 points 4 years ago*

There's a lot of "haters" in academia with regard to Myers-Briggs. Mainly, they

[] NPPraxis 3 points 4 years ago

Thank you for your thoughts!

[] AncientSpirits [S] 5 points 4 years ago

Yes and sort-of about determining type.

[] AncientSpirits [S] 7 points 4 years ago

[] AncientSpirits [S] 7 points 4 years ago

[] Sociacademic 5 points 4 years ago

[] paddywhack 7 points 4 years ago*

[] AncientSpirits [S] 14 points 4 years ago

[] onthejourney 2 points 4 years ago

This is linked to responsiveness to social feedback. In his case, he wasn't

[] AncientSpirits [S] 4 points 4 years ago*

[] paddywhack 1 point 4 years ago

[] beaker0110 1 point 4 years ago

I too am an INTJ. I perceive myself as a character in an rpg interacting with

[] MagicNine 6 points 4 years ago

[] AncientSpirits [S] 11 points 4 years ago*

Here's my last post for today.