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INTERVIEW (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/CATEGORY/INTERVIEW/)

A CONVERSATION WITH RICK OWENS

by
Anja Aronowsky Cronberg (http://vestoj.com/author/anja-aronowsky-cronberg/)

Keywords: ARTIFICE AS FORMALISED RITUAL (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/TAG/ARTIFICE-AS-FORMALISED-RITUAL/),

GRACEFUL WAYS TO DEAL WITH THREATS (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/TAG/GRACEFUL-WAYS-TO-DEAL-WITH-THREATS/),
HUMOUR AND ELEGANCE (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/TAG/HUMOUR-AND-ELEGANCE/),
KABUKI (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/TAG/KABUKI/), ON MASCULINITIES (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/TAG/ON-MASCULINITIES/),
RICK OWENS (HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/TAG/RICK-OWENS/)
(http://vestoj.com/app/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-12-18-at-6.43.09-PM.png)

HE SPEAKS TO ME through the ether. Hes a fashion designer known for his love of the
colour black. Hes in Italy, he tells me, starting to think about his next mens collection.
When he speaks, hes gentle, attentive. I get the feeling that I could ask him about his
collection or about the most intimate quirk of his character and he would answer me with
the same forthright earnestness.
 ***

Im a Los Angeles clich. I had a conservative, controlled childhood, then became as

uncontrolled as I could, then realised that I liked control after all. This is the story of my
generation: kids that were too controlled and then became drug addicts and alcoholics before
finding spirituality and Zen. Its so common. Im totally common.

I was pretty effeminate and sensitive as a boy. Its that same old story: sensitive boy in a small
town, trying to fit in. I felt threatened pretty much all the time. Growing up, there was a
certain set of rules or expectations about how to behave. That angered me, and later on I felt
vengeful. I tried to conform, but I never managed to do it very successfully. I was forced to
bend, to act in a way that I was uncomfortable with. Their rules didnt seem fair. They were
limiting and uptight and didnt make sense. I had to become more masculine. I couldnt be
flamboyant; I had to butch it up. It was humiliating. In a way I suppose it helped me form a
sense of defiance and rebellion and when I left to go to art school in the big city, I became as
flamboyant as I possibly could.

I lived in a warehouse by the railroad tracks in L.A. You had to climb in from a set of stairs.
I had this great car with fins on it. I wore platform boots and capes and full make-up. I wore
gloves to bed. But when I went back home to Porterville to see my parents, Id take off all
the make-up and nail polish and put on normal clothes. What would be the point of going
to their house and provoking them? If I wanted to have a relationship with them, I had to
compromise. That isnt a bad thing. And in the later years, when I was completely honest
with them and allowed them into my life, they had to make some compromises too. That
was lovely. In a way, it was the money that made them change their minds about me.
(Laughs.) My parents figured, well as long as hes successful he must be okay. It was kind of
bittersweet because obviously it was a false context, but then life isnt perfect.

Ive always wanted to participate in the world, to be involved. When I was younger I was
timid and had a problem fitting in so I drank to give myself courage, but Ive always found a
way to communicate with the world. The world that I propose to people is not meant to
impose or insist. Its not a manifesto, its a proposal. Its meant to be gentle. Although it was
born out of my reaction to the rules imposed on me, I want it to be an alternative, not the
only option. Thats really important to me.
I like artifice. I dont mean lipstick and Botox Im talking exaggeration and enhancing
ideas, rather than trying to look young. Think of Kabuki or the artifice of a room with a
scroll on the wall and one flower arrangement. A tea ceremony: artifice as formalised ritual.
Well, maybe its not that different from Botox and lipstick after all. Maybe its wrong of me
to think that one is more sophisticated than the other I dont want to be the kind of person
who claims to know what the rules really are. I hate sounding opinionated even though I
probably am. The artifice I like is always exaggerated and borderline ridiculous. Its
challenging the codes of good taste and notions of conservative beauty in a good-humoured
way. Humour is one of the most elegant things in the entire universe, you know.

Im a fifty-five-year-old man with grey curly hair that has been chemically altered to be
black, straight and long. Im a fifty-five-year-old man who has gone to the gym for twenty
years: Ive altered my body in a very calculated way through steroids and working out. I
started going because I was drinking so much that I had to balance that out, but also because
I wanted to change my body. I just wasnt happy with it as it was. My wife was always going
to the gym, and she pushed me to go too. Today its as regular as brushing my teeth, just
something I do to feel right. A grooming habit. Im not saying my body is perfect, but its as
perfect as I can make it. I dont need to rely on clothes to hide flaws or make it look better
than it actually is. Im also very comfortable with my feminine side now. Im definitely an old
queen.

I wouldnt say my clothes are radical, but for somebody my age I suppose theyre a little bit
ridiculous. What I wear is a logical answer to the way I live and what I need to do. I dont
really have anything I want to say every day with my clothes so theyve become a sort of
uniform. I have twenty copies of the same outfit. I wear sneakers of my own design. Ive
become very known for sneakers which is ironic considering that when I first started doing
them it was almost a parody. I thought sneakers were the most boring things on the planet.
They represented complete banality to me. But I was going to the gym and I needed some so
I started doing my own exaggerated version, and theyve become a signature of mine. Its one
of the things I sell the most of now. The ones I wear are on a stretch leather sock: theyre
kind of a sneaker combined with an opera leather glove. I wear those, and baggy shorts that
end below my knees. The sneaker-socks cover my knees because I think its a bit rude to
show bare, hairy knees everywhere. Its more discreet to cover up. I also wear a silk jersey
tank top and a black cashmere turtleneck. When I go to the gym, I just take my sweater off
and push my socks down and I have my gym outfit. I dont really do anything that cardio
vascular, just weights and stretching so I dont get sweaty. Its all very practical. My shorts
obviously reference skateboarders or Mexican gangs in L.A. from the Eighties, or they can
reference a sort of Buddhist monk situation. The black turtleneck could be read as a
reference to the Beats in Saint-Germain in the 1960s: its architectural, formal and severe.
Over that I always wear a black bomber in nylon, partly because Montana always wore one in
the Eighties, and partly because leather has become too heavy for me. The tank top doesnt
represent anything. In short, Im a fifty-five-year-old man wearing evening glove running
shoes with shorts probably not every fifty-five-year-old mans dream look. (Laughs.) But
for better or worse Ive established myself as a fashion designer in Paris, and as such youre
expected to uphold some kind of aesthetic eccentricity. If I showed up in a suit, people would
be disappointed.

Im not really interested in clothes, for me personally I mean. I never buy them. You know,
the interior designer Jean-Michel Frank had forty identical grey flannel suits in his closet: I
always thought that was the height of modesty and extravagance at the same time. I love
that. I dont remember when I decided to start wearing this uniform but Ive been doing it
for a long time. In the Nineties I wore tight black jeans, black platforms, a black T-shirt and
a leather jacket. That was my uniform then. After that I wore army surplus shorts over
sweatpants with a T-shirt and a leather coat for a long time, probably until I came to Paris.
In Paris I replaced the leather coat with a sable-lined one, but I still wore army surplus pants.
Eventually that morphed into what I wear today. I have a set look for a couple of years and
then I make a change. When I see people changing styles all the time, it makes me wonder:
dont you know who you are? I dont mean to be critical, but I question their sincerity.

In my uniform I can go anywhere to the opera or to a rave. There are rare occasions when I
alter it, out of respect for the situation. I went to a state dinner at the White House this year,
and I wore my shorts and sneakers but with a long black silk duchesse blazer and a black silk
turtleneck. I didnt want to be rude. I want to live the life I want to live, but when I go to
somebodys house I respect their vibe. Being polite is more important than being defiant. I
dont want to make people feel uncomfortable. Ive shown nudity and bizarre stuff at my
shows but a fashion show is a sophisticated aesthetic arena where people expect a certain
element of surprise and challenge. I wouldnt do those runway shows for my mothers church
group. That would not be polite.

The most successful mens fashion is conservative with just a hint of rebellion. Imagine
something classic, but with a ripped lining or a hidden strap that implies S&M. Thats the
stuff that sells the most in stores. I do clothes like that myself. Its a funny period for
menswear. Its so popular and yet so restrained. Were so prudish today. I dont know why
the catwalk isnt more exaggerated I guess flamboyance ran its course. One of the
inspirations for my mens clothes is Neil Young. He doesnt care about dressing up. Hes a
poet and hes masculine but hes sensitive too. He seems honest, with a sense of honour. I
dont think honour tops the list of womens attributes but its one of the appealing things
about a man. We expect men to build the house, and women to make it a home. In a very
primal way we still want men to be providers and women to add grace.

Fashion is popular because its a mystery. Its the ebb and flow of the subtle things we
propose as designers, and that people respond to like flocks of birds turning all of a sudden in
the middle of the sky. Thats what makes it fascinating. Its all about instincts and subtle
references that certain people can grasp in a very vague way. Its a pattern or code that is
understood by a group of people at the same time. To be a designer you have to change
enough to maintain interest, but not change so much that you come off as insincere. Its a
tricky balancing act. I wonder when the day will come when I no longer understand what is
relevant in the world, and I continue refining a vision thats no longer significant. Weve seen
that happen, and I dread the day it happens to me.

My father died this year so Ive been thinking a lot about mortality. He was a very
confrontational man, very analytical. He liked putting people into a corner intellectually it
was a form of bullying. He could be so critical of the way people live their lives and in the
end he became very bitter. I never had the chance to ask him why he, after all those years of
thinking, couldnt find serenity. He wasnt able to negotiate the ending of his life in a
graceful way. He was so observant, and he believed in being a resolved human being
someone who thinks correctly and still he never managed to make peace with the fact that
he was dying. It made me think about the world and about how to find graceful ways to deal
with threats. Thats what I would like to do. Id like to end up in a garden with a wall around
it, reading and playing with kittens. Thats probably the best I can hope for. Im not going to
have grandchildren. Well, I guess in a way I will because I surround myself with people, and
some are having children. I love seeing babies around. So I suppose I will have the comfort
of being in a garden and playing with kittens and babies. I dont know what could possibly
be better than that.

This interview was originally published in Vestojs new issue On Masculinities, available for sale
in Paris and on www.vestoj.com December 17, and in the rest of the world from January 5.

Anja Aronowsky Cronberg is Vestojs Editor-in-Chief and Founder.

By Anja Aronowsky Cronberg

> READ OTHER ARTICLES BY ANJA ARONOWSKY CRONBERG

(HTTP://VESTOJ.COM/AUTHOR/ANJA-ARONOWSKY-CRONBERG/)

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