Geezer Butler talks Black Sabbath, bass playing

and The End

By Jamie Blaine

http://www.musicradar.com/news/geezerbutlertalksblacksabbathbassplayingandtheend

Introduction
FromthethrobofN.I.B.tothestringbendingdoomofGodIsDead?,theoriginalwizard,Terry
GeezerButlerofBlackSabbath,hassetthepaceforbassplayersfornearly50years.Wemeetthe
master...

Withhisapocalypticlyricsandsludgeheavybasstones,GeezerButlerhasinspiredalegionofdevotees
worldwide.BornTerenceMichaelJosephButlertoanIrishCatholicfamilyin1949,hetookuprhythm
guitarandformedhisfirstgroup,RareBreed,attheageof18withpalJohnOzzyOsbourne,eventually
crossingpathswithAnthonyIommiandWilliamWard,whoplayedinCarlislebluesrockersMythology.

Butlersfascinationwithscifi,horrorfilmsandreligionhelpedBlackSabbathcreatetheirown
revolutionarystyle

AfteracannabischargefracturedMythology,RareBreedmergedwithIommiandWardtoformPolka
TulkbeforechangingtheirnametoEarthandfinally,atGeezerssuggestion,BlackSabbath.

Combiningelementsofrock,blues,jazz,classicalandprogwithButlersfascinationwithscifi,horror
filmsandreligion,thenewbandcreatedtheirownrevolutionarystyle.

Sabbathsoundedlikeirongiantslumberingthroughawartornwasteland,likethesoundtracktosome
cataclysmicbattlebetweenSatanandGod,likethehairiestbunchofAstonsadsackssparedbyfate
fromalifeoftoilinginslaughterhousesandsheetmetalfactories.

ArmedwithafuzzedoutFenderPrecision,downtunedandcoupledwithwah,Sabbathsbassistshook
thedevilfromhisstringsandconjuredrunsbothcrushingandnimble,makinghispresenceknowneven
onquieterSabbathsongslikeSolitudeandPlanetCaravan.Butlersplayingwasmammothbut
approachable,ancientyetfresh,legendarywhilefirmlyworkingclass.

Thereisnosignofdrugs,groupies,witchesorboozeonlysteamedvegetables,grilledchickenand
greentea

AbeginnermightlackthecouragetotakeonRoundaboutorYYZbutanyyoungplayercoulddigintothe
monsterrifffromSweetLeafandcomeoutmoreconfidentontheotherside.Simplyput,heisthe
reasonmanyofusfirstpickedupthebassguitar.

Afterapowerhousereturntoformon2015sstunning13albumandthesubsequentselloutreunion
tour,lastmonthsawOzzy,TonyandGeezerhanginguptheirbootsfollowingonelastworldwiderun.
AsSabbathheadedfullcircleforafinalpairofshowsintheirhometownofBirmingham,wecaughtup
withtheavowedvegananddefenderofanimalrightsinTexas,ofallplaces.

"Death,yeah"

Itsnearly100degreesaswereusheredbackstage.TheSabbathcrewareproperEnglish,extremely
politeandgenerous.Thereisnosignofdrugs,groupies,witchesorboozeonlysteamedvegetables,
grilledchickenandvatsofgreentea.Arowofsimpledressingroomsliesbeyondthecateringtent.

Itsabitcoolerinside.ALaklandbasssitsproppedbesideapracticeampandtheresalargetapestryon
thewallofapsychedelicskull.GeezerButler,godfatherofallthingsmetalandrock,standstoextend
thehandofdoom.Mementomori,weoffer,meetinghishandshakewithanodtotheskull.

Death,yeah,hereplies,chucklingwhilerubbinghischin.Itscomingforusall,innit?

Abeginningandanend
HowdoesitfeeltobehereatTheEnd?

Terrible!Horrible![laughs]Ah,bittersweet,actually.Itsgoodtogooutontop.Andwereallgoingout
asfriends,whichisthemainthing.Letsgobacktothebeginning.InthepreSabbathdays,youwereon
rhythmguitar.

Whatbroughtyoutobass?

Well,Tonydidntlikeplayingwithotherguitarists.WewerereallyintoHendrixandCreambass,
guitaranddrumsandthatsthewaywewantedtogo.Idbeenwantingtoswitchtobassandhadnt
gottenonebythetimewestartedrehearsing,soIhadtoplaybassonmyTelecaster.Westartedout
doing12barbluesstuffandIwasjustdoingyourverybasicB/A/B,withnorunsoranythinglikethat.
Onthewaytoagig,IborrowedafriendsHfner:thatwasthefirsttimeIdeverplayedanactualbass.

Whatbassistswereyouinto?

JackBrucewasahugeinfluence.IwaslisteningtoalotofNoelReddingandCharlesMingusaswell.

Mingus?TheresalotofjazzinearlySabbath

ThatwasTonyandBill,really.AfterTonysaccident[Iommilosttwofingertipsinanindustrialaccident],
helearnedalotofchordsfromDjangoReinhardt,becausehealsohadtwofingers.AndJoePassaswell.
BillwasbroughtuponGeneKrupaandBuddyRich.SoIplayedoffBillsswingfeel,andthatswhat
broughtthejazztoSabbath.

YourbasssoundwasdifferentafterSabbathsdebutalbumin1970.Whatwasgoingon?

Iprobablychangedthestringsonmybass!OnthedebutalbumIwastoopoortobuynewstrings,so
theywerealways,like,10monthsold.Idonlyreplacethemiftheybroke,sothatswhatgavethe
recordthatdull,flatthudsound.

Whatwereyouplayingthrough?

A70WLaneyguitarampwithaPark4x12cabinetwithonlythreespeakers.Icouldntaffordanything
else.WedidntknowwhatweweredoingonthedebutLP.Treateditlikealiveshow,really.Wewerent
allowedinonthemixoranythinglikethat.Twodaystorecordandofftothecontinenttoplaysome
gigs.Astimewenton,Iexperimentedwithdifferentsetupsanddifferentbasses.Itcouldonlyget
better.

Didyouhaveasoundinyourmindyouwerelookingfor?

Idid,butitwassohardtofindbecausetechnically,Iwasntveryproficient.Ifinallyfounditon13.It
tookme40years!

Youwereproficientenoughtolandabasssoloonthefirstrecord.ThatwahonBassicallywaspretty
radical.Howdidthathappen?

WeactuallywroteN.I.B.jammingonstage.SabbathwouldplaytheseplacesinEuropeandhavetodo
eightsessionsaday.WedrunoutofmaterialsowemadeN.I.B.last45minutes!Iusedtodoa10
minutesolobeforeweevenstartedN.I.B.,justtofilltime.WhenwegottothestudioIdidashorter
versionofthesoloandtheproducer,RodgerBain,suggestedusingawahwahtomakeitmore
interesting.IborrowedTonyspedal,simpleasthat.

IdlovetohearabootlegofanhourlongN.I.B.

Metoo,butIdontthinkoneexists.

Mindbending

Youwerebendingyourstringsquiteabit,whichwasntverycommonforbassplayersbackthen.

Again,JackBruce.IsawJackdoitandsimplycopiedhistechnique.Itsuitedthesortofbluesjamswe
weredoingquitewell.

WhatdidyouthinkofSabbathssoftercutslikePlanetCaravanandLagunaSunrise?

Ilikelightandshadeonanalbum,soIthoughttheywerereallygood.Idontlikeeightsongswhichall
soundthesame.Contrastmakesthingsinteresting.Ifyouputonsomethinglighter,itmakestherest
soundthatmuchheavier.

Wereyoulisteningtobassplayersoutsideofrock?Yoursoundhadabitoffunkedgetoit,especially
oncutslikeJuniorsEyes...

Sure,yeah.Ivealwayslovedbassguitar,especiallysoulandR&B.JamesJamersonwasageniusplayer.
TamlaMotownandStaxproducedsomegreatsessionbassplayers.Istilllistentothatstuffnow,and
newerstuff,likeBrunoMars.Funkadelicwasfantastic.

HowdidyoucreatethebasslineforChildrenOfTheGrave?

Ijustfollowedtheguitarriff.TonystartedthetrackwithagallopingriffandIfollowedthatthroughout
thesong.Wealwaysjammedsongsuntilweweresatisfiedwithhowwewantedthemarranged.Id
usuallykeepthefirstfewideasthatIhad.

YouguystuneddowntoC#forMasterOfRealityin1971.Didyoudothattomakethesoundheavier?

Tonystartedtuningdowntoeasethepressureonhisseveredfingers,becauseitwasjustbloodykilling
him,yknow?Lightgaugestringswerehardtocomebybackthen,sotuningdownwastheonlywayto
go.Itunedmybassdownsoasnottocauseconfusionwhenweweredecidingwhatkeyasongwould
bein.

Whattuningdoyouusenow?

D,CandC#,dependingwhichsuitsOzsvoice.Iusuallytakeeightorninebassesontour.Threemain,
threebackups,oneforthedressingroomandonespare.

YouplayedsomeamazinglicksonVol.4in72buttheyredifficulttomakeoutinthemix.What
happened?

Thatalbumwasverybadlyproduced,asfarasIwasconcerned.Ourthenmanagerinsistedon
producingit,sohecouldclaimproductioncosts.Thosefirstalbumshavegrownonmeovertheyears,
butatthetimeitwassodifferent.Iwasnthappywiththebasssound,ever.Inevercouldcapturethat
livesoundinthestudio.

Whatgearwereyouusingonthoseearlytours?

Laney4x12cabsand100Wguitaramps.IhadaFenderPBass,DanArmstrongbassandthentheJohn
BirchandJaydeecustombasses.

Customrides
HowwereJaydeeandBirchcustomisingforyou?

Theybuiltshortscalebassestomyspecs.Iactuallyhadthefirstguitarwithcrossesonthefretboard!
Tonylikedtheideaandhadaguitarmadewithcrossesonhisfretboardtoo.Ilovedthelookofthose
basses,andstillhavethemnow.

Inearlyclipsyouplayedallfingerstyle,sometimeslownearthebridgeandothertimeshighonthe
neck,evenbashingthestringswithyourfistnowandthen.Didyoueveruseapick?

Onlyoccasionally,ifIhadblistersonmyfingers,orwhentheskinwassensitivefromplayingsomuch.
OnmysoloG/Z/RalbumsIusedapickonsometrackstogiveamoreaggressivesound.Also,acoupleof
songsweresofast,Ihadtouseapicktodistinguishthenotes.IusedoneonChildrenOfTheSea,I
believe.IstillplayreallyhardwithmyfingersbutIdontbashaboutasmuch,especiallysinceIvegot
arthritisinmythumb.Itakecareofmyhandsalotbetterthesedays.

YourtoneonHeavenAndHell(1980)ismassive.Whatwereyoudoinginthestudio?

Iwasusingmyfullstagerig,sixcabinetsandsixampheads!Ididntknowanybetteranditwastheage
ofexcess.Allthatanditstilltookweekstogettherightsound.MartinBirchwasproducing,andhe
helped.RonniesfriendCraigGruberputbassonDieYoung,butapartfromthat,everythingelsewas
mine.

ThatlineonthetitletrackyourenotfollowingTonythere.Howdidyoucomeupwiththat?

ThebasspartforHeavenAndHellwasactuallywrittenbythekeyboardplayer,GeoffNicholls.Ilikedit
somuch,Ididntfeeltheneedtochangetheverseparts.OnthatalbumIdfollowTonysrifftomake
somepartsheavier,butthenIdgooffontangents.Ihadbeenoutofthebandawhileandcamebackin
reallyfreshandwantingtoprovemyselfagain.Also,sinceIwashearingthewholealbumforthefirst
time,itgavemeanotherperspectiveasopposedtohearingitahundredtimesadayovertheprevious
year.

MobRules(1981)hasevenmorebitethanHeavenAndHell

Thatsright,yeah.Thebasssoundwasbymistake!Wewereontourandneededtowriteforthenext
LP,sowebookedJohnLennonsstudioinhishouse.Itwasntlongafterhedied,actually.Theyhadthis
obscure,batteredoldItalianbassamp.Ihavenoideawhatitwas,butIpluggeditinandgotthisreally
greatrawsound.WeuseditontheHeavyMetalsoundtrackandittookmeagestogetthatsoundagain
fortheLP.

Yourbasshadareallywickedgritonthosetours

Westartedfromscratch,really.IwasusingJBL12and15speakersinhugePAcabs,Crownampswith
AlembicpreampsandcustomBCRichbasses.

TheIronbird
WhatwasthatBCRichyouplayedatLiveAidin1985?

TheIronbird!Thatthingwasimpossible!ItsgotareallyspikybodyandIwhackedmythumbrighton
thepoint.Neverplayeditagain.Stillgotit,though.IvegotallthebassesIveusedovertheyears.Ive
stillgotmyParanoidbass,theHeavenAndHellbass,theCaliforniaJambass.Mosteverything,really.I
donthavethebassfromthefirstrecordbecauseweswappeditfortheoneIusedonParanoid.

TheneverythingchangedforBornAgain

[Groans]Idontevenliketothinkaboutthatalbum.TometheresonlyonetrueSabbathandthats
Tony,Ozzy,Billandme.ThatstheultimatetrueSabbath.ButIratherliketheRonnieJamesDioeratoo.
EverythingelseIdontreallyconsiderSabbath.

Yousay13isthefirsttimeyouveevertrulycapturedyourbasssoundonrecord.Howdidyougo
aboutworkingwithRickRubintodothat?

WhenSabbathreformed,IwentbacktomyoldwayofplayingfingerstylebecauseIwanted13to
soundasclosetoourfirstthreerecordsaspossible.Buttheengineer,GregFidelman,istheonewho
capturedit.Ricktoldhimwhathewantedandhemadeithappen.Itwasamixtureofanoriginal1969
Ampeg8x10bassrig,anAmpegHeritage8x10,andvariousplugins.IalsousedaBillNashPBassaswell
asmyLaklands.

DamagedSoulisasstrongasanythingintheSabbathcatalogue

Thatwasalastminuteaddon.Weusedtojamforanhourtoloosenupbeforewerecordedanything,
andthatwasan18minutejamthatwasluckilyrecorded.Wetriedtocutitproperlybutitdidnthave
thesamefeel,soweeditedthelongversiondowntoaroundeightminutes,addedvocalsand
harmonica,andvoil!

HaveyoueverconsideredreturningtoSabbathsrootsforabluesproject?
Thefollowupto13wasgoingtobeabluesalbum,butthetourgotintheway.Itwouldtake
somethingliketwoorthreeyearstodoitproperly,andwethoughtwemightnotallbeherebythat
time,soitwouldbebettertodothisfinaltourfirstandthenmaybewelldoabluesrecordlater.

Ifyoudiditjamstyleitwouldnttakethatlongtodoblues?

Probablynot.Youdhavetomakeitvariedinsteadofdoing10tracksofthesameold12barblues
though.ButevenbackintheHeavenAndHelltourdays,Tonywouldgoupintohisleadandwewould
justjamaroundbluesriffsforeightornineminutes.Andeverynightwasdifferent.Sothatisathought.

Touringdemands
Whatdoesittaketodoatourlikethisin2017?

Lotsofsleep,manycupsoftea,someB12shotsnowandthen.Idontdrinkanymoreordoanykind
ofdrugs.

Howwouldyouhaveansweredthatquestionin1972?

Cocaine.Cocaine...(pauseandlaugh)Cocaine.

Whatsortofwarmupdoyoudopreshow?

Someruns,maybeasongortwo,dependsonmymood.Blues,alot.AndImstillwritingnewstuff
quiteabit.

Whatsongstillgivesyouathrilltoplayafteralltheseyears?

Ah,DirtyWomen.Itsdifferenteverynightsothereslotsofroomtoimprovise.

Isthereatemptationtoreviseorupdatepartsastimegoesby?

Idontexactlyplaytherunsoffthefirstalbums.Thoseweredoneinsuchashortamountoftime.You
onlyhadonetakeintheolddayssoyouplayeditsafe,basically,pardonthepun.Liveyoucanstretch
outandtrynewthings.Sometimesitworksandothertimesitdoesnt,butitkeepsitfresh.

Whatsyourfavouritebasslinefromtheclassicera?

ProbablyAfterForever.

Youalwayscomeoffasveryhumbleaboutyourrole.Whydothinkyoureconsideredsuchan
innovator?

Idontknow!It'skindofahardquestiontoanswer,really.Ithinkitsbecausewealwaysstucktowhat
webelievedin.Sabbathwasturneddownbysixrecordcompaniesbeforewegotadeal.Butwestuckto
whatwewantedtoplayandrefusedtochange.Ithinkthehonestycomesoverinourmusic.

Nearly50yearsin,doyouhaveanyregrets?

No,lifealwayshasupsanddowns.ImthankfulIwasabletohavealife,asIthinkalllifeismiraculous
andsacred.

Whatwillyoudooncethefinalshowisdone?
Ihavenoidea.Watchabitoffootball,Isuppose?ImightnotplaymusicpubliclybutIllalwaysbe
writingandIllstillplayeveryday.Itsmyhobbyaswellasmycareer.IstilllovetocollectguitarsandI
stillloveplayingbass.