John Dubois 12 15 16

Page 222
1
2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE ELEVENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA
3
4
MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, by and CASE NO.: 12-37012 CA 24
5 Through the Regulatory and
Economic Resources Department,
6
Plaintiff,
7
-vs-
8
John E. DuBois,
9
Defendant.
10 _______________________________/
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
Videotaped Deposition of John DuBois,
20 (Continued - Volume 2)
21 Whereupon, the deposition was taken at
111 Northwest 1st Street, Conference Room 27B,
22 Miami, Florida 33128,
Commencing at 10:34 a.m., concluding at 3:00 p.m.,
23 Taken on Thursday, December 15th, 2016
24 Taken before Teresa H. Miranda,
Court Reporter for the State of Florida,
25
Dynamic Reporting - A Veritext Company

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1 APPEARANCES:
1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record. This is Media
2 On behalf of the Plaintiff:
3 OFFICE OF THE MIAMI-DADE COUNTY ATTORNEY 2 Unit Number 1. We are here today, December 15th, 2016 for
By: Christopher A. Angell, Esquire 3 the continued deposition of John E. DuBois in the case
4 111 Northwest 1st Street, Suite 2810
Miami, Florida 33128 4 styled Miami-Dade County, et al, versus John DuBois, Case
5 Phone: (305) 375-1024 5 No. 12-37012 CA 01.
E-mail: Angellc@miamidade.gov
6 6 The videographers today are Jason Stapleton and
7 On behalf of the Defendant: 7 Sandra Solis, and our court reporter today is Teresa
8 JEFFREY P. LEARY, ESQUIRE
18495 South Dixie Hwy, PMB 107 8 Miranda.
9 Cutler Bay, Florida 33157 9 At this time, would counsel please state their
Phone: (585)747-2952
10 E-mail: Mdcpr.jl@gmail.com 10 appearances for the record.
11 11 MR. ANGELL: Christopher Angell on behalf of
ALSO PRESENT: John Ricisak, MDC County Rep
12 Jason Stapleton, Videographer 12 Miami-Dade County.
Sandra Solis, Videographer 13 MR. LEARY: Jeffrey Leary on behalf of John DuBois.
13 Teresa Miranda, Court Reporter
14 INDEX 14 MR. ANGELL: Also present in the room is John
15 Witness Direct Redirect Cross Recross 15 Ricisak, county representative.
16 John E. DuBois 225
17 16 Thereupon,
18 EXHIBITS 17 John E. DuBois
19 Plaintiff's Page
20 Exhibit No. 7: Composite (three pages) 240 18 was called as a witness by the Plaintiff and, having been duly
Exhibit No. 8: Photograph 242 19 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
21 Exhibit No. 9: Photograph 244
Exhibit No. 10: Photograph 245
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
22 Exhibit No. 11: Composite 259 21 DIRECT EXAMINATION (10:34 a.m.)
Exhibit No. 12: Steve Carney document 263
22 BY MR. ANGELL:
23 Exhibit No. 13: E-mail chain between Mr. Real
And Mr. Ricisak 265 23 Q Good morning, sir.
24 Exhibit No. 14: DERM correspondence to J. DuBois 11/19/10 279
24 A Good morning.
Exhibit No. 15: Miami-Dade Police Department
25 Offense-Incident Report 283 25 Q I know we went over this last time, but I'm going to go
Page 224 Page 226

1 1 over some ground rules again, because it's been a while since we
EXHIBITS
2 (Continued) 2 last met. I think it was August when we had the first part of
3 Defendant's Page 3 your deposition.
4
Exhibit No. 16: Miami-Dade County UCVN dated 01/21/11 285 4 So, just like last time I'm going to ask you questions.
5 Exhibit No. 17: DERM correspondence to J. DuBois 01/21/11 289 5 All you need to do is answer truthfully and honestly, to the
Exhibit No. 18: Miami Herald article posted 03/29/13 290 6 best of your recollection. You may answer: Yes, no, I don't
6 Exhibit No. 19: Photo 299
Exhibit No. 20: Composite of County Request re: 7 know, I don't recall, I don't remember, and you may explain your
7 Schael report and response to same 302 8 answer if you need to do so.
Exhibit No. 21: Photograph of DuBois property 303
8 Exhibit No. 22: Letter to the Editor 306 9 From time to time, your lawyer will object. He will
Exhibit No. 23: Series of three letters to DERM 10 object to form, most likely. When he objects you still have to
9 Written by J. DuBois for Mr. Burch 318 11 answer the question, unless he specifically directs you not to.
Exhibit No. 24: Composite of two photographs 342
10 Exhibit No. 25: Composite - Suarez Surveying and Mapping 12 Answer the question?
Survey and attachment (2 pages) 350 13 During the course of my questioning, please keep in
11 Exhibit No. 26: Composite of 2 photographs (04/11/16) 352
Exhibit No. 27: Campaign material from 2012 election 353 14 mind that I never want to know about any communications that
12 Exhibit No. 28: Composite of images from Miami-Dade 15 you've had with your lawyer directly. Anything that he said to
Citizens For Property Rights website 361 16 you is privileged, and anything you said to him directly, and
13
14 17 just him, in the course of that conversation is privileged. I
15 18 don't want to know about privileged communications.
16
17 19 A Okay.
18 20 Q If you don't understand my question, please let me know
19 21 you don't understand the question, and I'll be happy to rephrase
20
21 22 it. Otherwise, if you answer the question, it will be assumed
22 23 that you understood the question.
23
24 24 This is not a test of endurance. If, at any point in
25 25 time, you need to use the restroom, or need a break, please let
2 (Pages 223 - 226)

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1 us know and we'll be happy to take a break. Even if it's just 1 Mr. Robertson introduced, by continually asking similar
2 to stretch your legs, that's fine. If you receive a phone call 2 questions six or seven different ways, confused Mr. Carney, and
3 of importance that you must take, that's perfectly okay. We can 3 drew him to answer one of those times in a different way. And
4 break for that as well. 4 then, that way, that was in the interests of the County. Where
5 We already discussed that we'll break for lunch at 5 Carney was tripped up was the only portion that was used in the
6 about 12:45 p.m. If you need to break sooner than that, just 6 EQCB Summary Memorandum of the hearing, the one or two-page
7 let us know. And also, we'll break for the day at just before 7 summary.
8 four due to your attorney's other matter, unrelated to this 8 Q Before coming here today did you read Carney's
9 case. 9 redirect?
10 The final thing is I know you are an intelligent man. 10 A What redirect?
11 You can probably anticipate some of my questions before I finish 11 Q Was Carney questioned again by your lawyer after Mr.
12 asking them. However, Madam Reporter can only take down one 12 Robertson questioned him in front of the EQCB?
13 person at a time, so we have to wait until we both completely 13 A You mean during the EQCB?
14 finish speaking before the other one talks. 14 Q Yes, sir.
15 With that said, the first question for you is: Did you 15 A I'd have to read through it again to answer that
16 do anything to prepare for today's deposition? 16 question.
17 A Yeah, I found the section that we were looking for in 17 Q Did you read any -- let me rephrase that.
18 the last deposition that I was looking to cite from transcripts 18 When you reviewed the questioning by Mr. Robertson of
19 which I found. 19 Mr. Carney, the transcript from the EQCB, did you also review
20 Q Last time we were talking about EQCB testimony, is that 20 the questioning by your former lawyer of Mr. Carney?
21 correct? 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question.
22 A Yeah, the witness Carney being tripped up by Robertson, 22 THE WITNESS: There wasn't a whole lot in here,
23 and you asked me to cite where it was that that happened, and 23 that I recall, from my attorney.
24 since then I've prepared for that, to give it to you. 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 Q Did you read the entire EQCB transcript before coming 25 Q Okay. Other than reviewing that portion of the EQCB
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1 here today, or is it just Carney's testimony? 1 transcript, did you review any other materials in preparation
2 A No, I didn't read -- I only read the section in 2 for today's deposition?
3 question. 3 A Not since the August deposition, no.
4 Q And which section, we'll go back to that question. 4 Q Did you have an occasion before coming here today to
5 I think the question was: Where do you believe that 5 review the August deposition transcript of you?
6 Mr. Carney had been tripped up by Mr. Robertson at the original 6 A No, I've never seen it.
7 EQCB hearing? 7 Q Prior, or actually since the August deposition, have
8 A You want me to read it to you? 8 you given any other depositions in any other cases?
9 Q You can just give me a page and line. 9 A No, I've been a little busy with the campaign.
10 A Okay. From 170 to Page 184, Volume 2, Special Agenda 10 Q Have you given any sworn statements in any other cases
11 dated Monday June 3rd, 2013 at 12:41 p.m. That was the 11 since August?
12 transcript. 12 A I don't think so, not that I recall. I mean, it
13 Q Well, I don't want to have you read 14 pages of a 13 depends what you call cases. We have quasi judicial hearings at
14 transcript. 14 the city level where you do make -- you attest to certain
15 Can you summarize what it is that you believe it to 15 things.
16 have been? 16 Q Prior to today's date were you questioned by the
17 A Well, I read fast. 17 Ethnics Commission.
18 Q But Madam Reporter can't type fast, or she can type 18 A Yes.
19 fast, but not that fast. 19 Q Was there a court reporter present for that?
20 But I'll ask it this way then. Those pages encapsulize 20 A Was there a court reporter?
21 what you believe to be Mr. Carney becoming tripped up by Mr. 21 THE WITNESS: Was there a court reporter present?
22 Robertson? 22 MR. LEARY: Yes.
23 A Yeah, and basically what it underscores, along with the 23 THE WITNESS: Yes.
24 rest of the transcript, is the fact that Mr. Carney clearly 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 stated one position, and then, with the legal gymnastics that 25 Q When did that take place?
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1 A That was in the last couple of weeks. 1 Q Since you lived in Miami-Dade County, have you been a
2 Q Was it within the month of November. 2 party to any other lawsuits other than the ones that involve
3 A No, it was this month. 3 Miami-Dade County?
4 Q It was December? And who was present at that 4 A Yes.
5 deposition? 5 Q Do you recall which lawsuits those are?
6 A That had Murawski, and the court reporter, and Jeff. 6 A I have my lawyers do that. I mean, to be honest with
7 Q Anyone else? 7 you, I don't know. I just delegate, so I really couldn't tell
8 A No. 8 you the details on those.
9 Q How long was that deposition? 9 Q There was a lawsuit that was filed Cloisters On the Bay
10 A Well, it wasn't a deposition. I thought it was an 10 Association, Inc., versus John DuBois and Jane Doe, his unknown
11 interview. 11 wife.
12 Q How long was the interview? 12 Do you recall that lawsuit?
13 A It was probably an hour or less. I don't exactly 13 A There was. That was a condo fee. That was over a
14 remember. 14 condo fee. I do remember the details of that one --
15 Q Was anything relative to this case discussed in that 15 Q Was that lawsuit resolved?
16 interview? 16 A -- because I represented myself in that one.
17 A I don't recall anything about this case being 17 Q And was that lawsuit ultimately resolved?
18 discussed. 18 A Yes, I filed a counterclaim, and then the Judge
19 Q Other than having a stenographer or court reporter 19 dismissed their claim against me and upheld my counterclaim.
20 present, was it recorded in any other way...meaning by video, 20 Then they came and begged me to drop my counterclaim, which I
21 audio recorded? 21 did, because I was living there.
22 A Well, I had my phone audio recording on. 22 Q Were you deposed in that case?
23 Q So, you recorded it yourself? 23 A No.
24 A Yes, but I haven't played it back to listen to it. It 24 Q The lawsuit alleges -- well, the lawsuit is against, or
25 was not that eventful. 25 was against you and Jane Doe, your unknown wife.
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1 Q Did you record the entire interview? 1 Do you know who they were referring to?
2 A Yeah. 2 A I have no idea.
3 Q Were any exhibits used at that interview? 3 Q You also had a lawsuit against Civic Construction.
4 A Yes. 4 Do you recall that?
5 Q And were those exhibits retained by the court reporter? 5 A I don't recall that one.
6 A Yeah, they were marked by the court reporter, yeah. 6 Q Do you recall whether or not you were the Plaintiff or
7 Q Do you know if she took them at the end of that? 7 the Defendant in that lawsuit?
8 A I didn't watch her. I really don't know. 8 A I would have been a Plaintiff. Actually that was --
9 Q We did a lot of background at your first deposition. 9 they may have been named -- again, I delegate to my attorneys,
10 I'm not going to go over stuff we already discussed, but there 10 so I don't know the details on these cases, generally, but I
11 were some areas I didn't actually ask you about. 11 believe that one was against a window and door manufacturer that
12 First was prior lawsuits. Have you ever been involved 12 basically tried to rip me off, you know, in excess of $100,000.
13 in any other lawsuits, other than the ones you have opened and 13 Q Well, as the client you would have to direct the
14 have pending now, and the one that you had against Mr. Ricisak? 14 lawsuit to be filed. Your lawyers just can't file lawsuits
15 A Say that question again. 15 without you telling them to do so.
16 Q Have you ever been a party to any prior lawsuits that 16 A Yeah, but the lawsuit was against the window and door
17 didn't involve the County? Let's put it that way. 17 manufacturer. I think Civic Construction was named only because
18 A In my lifetime? 18 they had to be, as a matter of procedure, because they were
19 Q Yes. 19 listed as the general contractor.
20 A Yeah. 20 Q Did this lawsuit concern the construction of the home
21 Q How many? 21 on the property that we're here to discuss?
22 A I couldn't tell you. I mean, I've owned a lot of real 22 A Yeah. Like I said, it was over the windows and doors.
23 estate properties, and there's a lot of tenant/landlord 23 Q And how was that matter resolved, that lawsuit?
24 litigation where people don't pay their rent, or when 24 A Well, the contract I had with the subcontractor for the
25 contractors don't do their work, or whatever. 25 windows and doors, I actually had them sign the contract
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1 personally, as well as their company. So, their company 1 THE WITNESS: Well --
2 basically disappeared because they had ripped off a whole lot of 2 MR. ANGELL: Unless you direct him not to answer he
3 people in Dade County. But apparently, I was the only one that 3 has to answer.
4 engaged him personally in the contract. So, I was able to 4 THE WITNESS: I delegate all my stuff to my
5 continue with the lawsuit, but the guy was basically a deadbeat 5 attorneys. I don't get involved. So, you'd have to ask him
6 and we just never pursued it because we couldn't find the guy. 6 if you want any details. It's just I don't -- I can't help
7 He disappeared. 7 you with the details because I just don't get involved.
8 Q Because you couldn't get service on him? 8 BY MR. ANGELL:
9 A We got initial service on him, but he just disappeared. 9 Q Were you aware that back on July 31st of 2014 your
10 I think he went back to Israel or something. 10 lawyer sent a Request for Admissions alleging that Mr. Ricisak
11 Q The case is closed though, correct? 11 had a suspended license in 1998?
12 A Yeah, I think it was one of those cases where, after a 12 A That, I was aware of, yeah.
13 certain amount of time goes by, the judge or the court notifies 13 Q Were you aware that also in that Request for Admissions
14 the attorney, and says nothing's happened in X number of years, 14 there was an accusation that Mr. Ricisak was DUI in a car crash
15 and then nothing happens, so the Court closes -- 15 that was involved in 1998?
16 Q So, the court dismissed it? 16 MR. LEARY: I'm going to object to the relevance of
17 A Yeah, I think they just closed the case. I don't know 17 any of this line of questions regarding any type of filings,
18 how that works. 18 or anything having to do with a case filed against Mr.
19 Q So, there was no settlement, though. 19 Ricisak.
20 A No, the guy was uncollectible. He was a deadbeat. 20 BY MR. ANGELL:
21 Q Were you deposed in that case? 21 Q Are you aware of that?
22 A I don't recall. I don't think he had an attorney. I 22 A I was aware of the credit reports that said "under the
23 don't recall. 23 influence" from Mr. Ricisak, yes.
24 Q Other than the depo that you did in August in this 24 Q You were aware of that back in 2014?
25 case, and the interview you just did with the Ethics Commission, 25 A I don't remember the day, but I was aware of it.
Page 236 Page 238

1 have you been deposed in any other matters? 1 Q Well, the pleading was filed back in 2014.
2 A Like what? 2 A Okay. If you say so. I don't recall the dates.
3 Q Any other lawsuits? 3 Q Are you currently a party to any pending lawsuits other
4 A Are you talking about forever, or -- 4 than the one against the Ethics Commission, which includes
5 Q Ever. 5 Miami-Dade County as a Codefendant and the one against
6 A -- recently, or since I moved to Miami? 6 Miami-Dade County, Jack Osterholdt and Lee Hefty in federal
7 Q Ever. 7 court?
8 A Have I been deposed in lawsuits? That's a good 8 THE WITNESS: No. Am I?
9 question. I can't recall any off the top of my head. 9 MR. LEARY: I can't answer.
10 Q What other states have you been a party to a lawsuit 10 THE WITNESS: I would say no.
11 in? 11 BY MR. ANGELL:
12 A I told you I was a property owner. I had a lot of 12 Q Other than this case, are you currently a Defendant in
13 rentals. And that was in Virginia, so it would have been 13 any other pending litigation?
14 Virginia. 14 A Other than this case?
15 Q Any other states besides Virginia and Florida? 15 Q Yes.
16 A Not that I know of. 16 A No, not that I know of.
17 Q You also had filed a lawsuit, which is now closed, 17 Q When we last ended your first deposition, we were
18 against Mr. Ricisak. 18 talking about submerged lands.
19 Do you recall that lawsuit? 19 Do you recall that?
20 MR. LEARY: Objection to the relevance of any 20 A Vaguely, yeah.
21 questions regarding this lawsuit, as well as require that 21 Q And we had a conversation about a letter, and you
22 Mr. Benson be privy to any questions that you're asking with 22 testified that it was your understanding that Mr. Ricisak had
23 regards to this lawsuit. 23 modified an official document concerning submerged lands on your
24 MR. ANGELL: It's the substance of the lawsuit. 24 property.
25 Okay. Well, the objection is noted. 25 Do you recall that?
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1 A I recall that what I said was something to the effect 1 BY MR. ANGELL:
2 of something that he submitted to the State, had his writing on 2 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for
3 it, was modified effectively, and the state made a ruling based 3 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.
4 on that about submerged land. And then Jeff, my attorney, sent 4 MR. ANGELL: I'll show it to counsel first.
5 them an unaltered version of the same document, is my 5 MR. LEARY: I know what 7 is.
6 understanding, and that they reversed their decision and said 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 that it's not -- the state found that it is my submerged land. 7 Q Have you ever seen that document before?
8 Q I am going to show you what has already been marked as 8 A From John Ricisak to Terry Wilkinson at DEP, state of
9 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 for the purposes of this deposition. 9 Florida. Copy to Scott Woolam, submerged lands...
10 Can you show me where on Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 you 10 THE COURT REPORTER: Please speak up.
11 believe the submerged lands are that you own? 11 THE WITNESS: No, I haven't seen this.
12 A Well, I believe it's in the area around the D area, D 12 BY MR. ANGELL:
13 like David. 13 Q For the record, it's a composite exhibit consisting of
14 Q You can go ahead and mark that on the diagram. 14 three pages.
15 A I don't know the exact area. My attorney is the one 15 Page 2 of that exhibit, Page 2 of Exhibit 7 has a
16 that handles this stuff. 16 highlighted area, correct?
17 Q So, you're saying you believe it's around the area 17 A Yes.
18 marked as D. 18 Q And Page 3 also has a highlighted area, correct?
19 Does that extend up to the area marked as B? 19 A Yeah, they're highlighted in green.
20 A I don't know. You'd have to ask my attorney. I don't 20 Q Are those highlights the alterations that Mr. Ricisak
21 get involved with this stuff. I delegate the work to him. I 21 made to the document?
22 don't get involved with the details. 22 A I have no way of knowing.
23 Q So, is it your testimony that you believe it's around 23 Q What is your understanding of the nature of the
24 the area marked as D in Exhibit 1, but you don't know 24 alteration that Mr. Ricisak allegedly made to Page 2 and Page 3
25 specifically where? 25 of Exhibit 7?
Page 240 Page 242
1 A You'd have to ask my attorney for the exact details of 1 A Simply what I previously stated. I don't know anything
2 where. 2 more than that.
3 Q Do you know whether the submerged lands that you claim 3 Q So, just that you were told there was an alteration,
4 to own have ever been assessed for property tax purposes? 4 but you don't know the nature of it?
5 A I have no way of knowing that. 5 A I was told, don't know the nature.
6 Q Do you know if you ever paid property taxes on the 6 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
7 submerged lands? 7 Exhibit 8 for identification to the deposition.)
8 A I have no way of knowing that. 8 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for
9 Q How would a person approaching your property by water 9 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 8.
10 know that you own submerged lands? 10 BY MR. ANGELL:
11 A I have no way of knowing that either. 11 Q There's a time stamp on Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 of May 9,
12 Q Is your property marked or posted, in any way, to alert 12 2009.
13 people that you own submerged lands? 13 MR. LEARY: Do you know what day of the week that
14 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance of any 14 was?
15 questions regarding markings of submerged lands on Mr. 15 MR. ANGELL: No.
16 DuBois' property. 16 MR. LEARY: It's a weekend.
17 BY MR. ANGELL: 17 MR. ANGELL: Okay. I'll take counsel's
18 Q Is it marked? 18 representation it's a weekend.
19 A By is it marked, you mean on the property or on land 19 BY MR. ANGELL:
20 maps or what? 20 Q Does County Exhibit 8 fairly depict how the vegetation
21 Q Yeah, is there any sign on your property? 21 appeared on May 9th of 2009?
22 A There's no sign on my property, no. 22 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
23 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I have no way of
24 Exhibit 7 for identification to the deposition.) 24 knowing.
25 25
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1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 A Again, distance from the shoreline and camera angles,
2 Q Does it fairly depict how the vegetation appeared in 2 it's completely different from Exhibit No. 8. So, I couldn't
3 May of 2009? 3 tell you that it looks any different than Exhibit No. 8?
4 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 4 Q Do you believe it to be a fair and accurate depiction
5 THE WITNESS: I have no way of knowing. 5 of how the property line appeared -- sorry. Let me rephrase
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 that.
7 Q Do you believe this to be an accurate photograph? 7 Do you believe it to be a fair and accurate depiction
8 A I have no reason to think it's not an accurate 8 of how your property appeared on June 21st of 2009?
9 photograph. 9 MR. LEARY: Objection to the form, object to
10 Q Do you have any reason to believe that this image has 10 relevance.
11 been altered, in any way? 11 THE WITNESS: Again, as a standalone picture, not
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 12 knowing, you know, the location of where the picture was
13 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't know. 13 shot, I'd have no way of knowing whether it's an accurate
14 BY MR. ANGELL: 14 representation of whatever you're trying to show on this
15 Q My question is: Do you have any reason to believe that 15 thing. I don't know.
16 it has been altered, in any way? I understand you don't know if 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 it has been. Do you have reason to believe? 17 Q But you have no reason to believe that the photograph
18 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 18 has been altered, correct?
19 THE WITNESS: Well, it depends what you call 19 MR. LEARY: Object to form, object to relevance.
20 altered, in any way. I would claim that when you're taking 20 THE WITNESS: I have no reason to believe that the
21 a picture a foot off the water, versus a person standing on 21 photograph has been altered.
22 top of a boat on the water, you're going to get a very 22 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
23 different angle and approximation of height looking at the 23 Exhibit No. 10 for identification to the deposition.)
24 same vegetation. So, I don't know. It depends whether you 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 consider that altered or not. 25 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked as County
Page 244 Page 246
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 Exhibit 10.
2 Q Other than what the camera angle might have been at the 2 There's a date written on this photograph, but do you
3 time that the picture was taken, do you believe that anybody has 3 know when this photograph was taken?
4 gone in and added trees, deleted trees, made things look bigger 4 A Do I know when it was taken?
5 or smaller, using any form of computer program? 5 Q Yeah.
6 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 6 A I have no idea.
7 THE WITNESS: I have no reason to believe that that 7 Q Do you have any knowledge of when your property
8 happened. 8 appeared as it does within County Exhibit 10, what years?
9 BY MR. ANGELL: 9 A With County Exhibit 10?
10 Q But you can't say this is accurate as to how your 10 Q Yes.
11 property appeared from the water on May of 2009, correct? 11 A Do I know what years?
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 12 Q Yes, what years your property looked like that from the
13 THE WITNESS: I can only tell you that I have no 13 water?
14 reason to believe that this picture from this angle is 14 A How would I know?
15 inaccurate. 15 Q Does your property currently look like that from the
16 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 16 water?
17 Exhibit No. 9 for identification to the deposition.) 17 A I don't know. How would I know?
18 BY MR. ANGELL: 18 MR. LEARY: Object to form, object to relevance.
19 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for 19 BY MR. ANGELL:
20 identification as County Exhibit 9. 20 Q Have you ever been on the water and looked at your
21 County Exhibit 9 has a timestamp of June 21st of 2009. 21 property?
22 MR. LEARY: Also, a weekend. 22 A Yeah. I'm not sure I could tell you when was the last
23 BY MR. ANGELL: 23 time. I'm not sure I've ever been in that position or distance
24 Q Does County Exhibit 9 accurately depict how your 24 from the shoreline, and can tell you that I would have ever seen
25 property appeared on that date? 25 that view.
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1 Q We talked last time about mangroves. We didn't talk 1 BY MR. ANGELL:
2 about wetlands. 2 Q Well, do you consider yourself an expert at all in
3 What is your background and experience in the 3 wetland delineation?
4 identification of wetlands? 4 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
5 A My experience on the identification of wetlands I guess 5 THE WITNESS: No.
6 is from hanging around the wetlands. 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 Q Have you ever had any formal training by anyone about 7 Q Have you ever read Florida Statute 62-340?
8 the identification of wetlands? 8 A I don't know because of the number. It's possible I've
9 A Only to the extent that they teach you that stuff 9 read it. I don't know.
10 during ISA, arborist training classes. 10 Q Have you ever read the statute that governs wetlands
11 Q Do they actually teach you about the delineation of 11 and wetland delineation?
12 wetlands at ISA classes? 12 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
13 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 13 THE WITNESS: The only statute I could tell you for
14 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 14 sure I've read related to wetlands is the Mangrove Trimming
15 BY MR. ANGELL: 15 and Protection Act.
16 Q When they discussed wetlands at those classes, in what 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 context was it discussed? 17 Q So, you don't know whether you've ever read the statute
18 A I don't recall. I've had classes since the early 18 that governs wetlands?
19 2000s. I just don't recall what was in all those classes, there 19 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
20 were so many of them. 20 THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
21 Q Have you ever had a class about the delineation of a 21 BY MR. ANGELL:
22 wetland? 22 Q Have you ever personally participated in a wetland
23 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, asked and answered.23 delineation by doing any type of field work?
24 THE WITNESS: I don't recall whether they covered 24 A Not doing what I would call field work. I was in
25 delineation. 25 attendance at what I was told was a wetland delineation by
Page 248 Page 250
1 THE COURT REPORTER: One at a time, please. 1 people at DERM. And then, I was later told by Mr. Ricisak that
2 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 2 they weren't really there for a wetland delineation; they were
3 MR. ANGELL: And just for the record, if counsel 3 there to find violations.
4 does a word search of the prior deposition, he will see that 4 Q Are you referring to the day that DERM came and did the
5 the word delineation was never mentioned in regards to Mr. 5 soil sample testing?
6 DuBois. 6 A Yes.
7 MR. LEARY: The previous two questions have. 7 Q Have you ever participated in a wetland delineation by
8 BY MR. ANGELL: 8 reviewing aerial photographs?
9 Q Do you know why wetlands are important? 9 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
10 A I'm sorry? 10 THE WITNESS: Say that again.
11 Q Do you know why wetlands are important? 11 BY MR. ANGELL:
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 12 Q Have you ever participated in doing a wetland
13 THE WITNESS: To a degree. I mean, I know why 13 delineation -- let me rephrase that.
14 water is important to human life. I know why air is 14 Other than what you just told me, do you know if you've
15 important. I mean, to a degree, the answer is yes. 15 actually ever participated in doing a wetland delineation?
16 BY MR. ANGELL: 16 MR. LEARY: Object to form, and to relevance.
17 Q Okay. Why are wetlands important? 17 THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge.
18 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 BY MR. ANGELL: 19 Q Are you aware that under the law an area can be a
20 Q What is your understanding? 20 wetland even if it doesn't have any wetland vegetation?
21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to the 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to the
22 relevance. 22 relevance.
23 THE WITNESS: Because if there were no wetlands 23 THE WITNESS: I'm not an expert. I'm not an
24 there would be no water, and people need water to drink. I 24 expert, so I really couldn't answer to that.
25 mean, that's one answer. 25
8 (Pages 247 - 250)

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Page 251 Page 253
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 THE WITNESS: Well, the filling --
2 Q So that is you don't know? 2 BY MR. ANGELL:
3 A I couldn't tell you with accuracy. 3 Q I mean, filled without a permit and filled without any
4 Q The question is: Are you aware? So, either you're 4 other form of exemption under the law.
5 aware of that, or you're not aware of that. I'm not asking you 5 A Filled without a permit may or may not be legal. It
6 if -- 6 depends whether it was done before the statutes were in place.
7 A Repeat the question. 7 Q And my question is assuming that it was --okay. I'll
8 Q Sure. The question was: Are you aware that an area 8 ask it as a hypothetical for you, and your lawyer will object.
9 can be a wetland under the law, even if there is no wetland 9 Let's assume that in 2015 there's a wetland. And let's
10 vegetation in the area? 10 assume that that wetland is filled without a permit, and has
11 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to 11 never been historically filled.
12 relevance. 12 Are you aware that filling that wetland without a
13 THE WITNESS: I'm really not sure, at this point. 13 permit, it would still be considered a wetland even once it's
14 BY MR. ANGELL: 14 filled?
15 Q Are you aware that an illegally filled wetland is still 15 MR. LEARY: Objection to form, and object to the
16 considered a wetland under the law? 16 relevance.
17 MR. LEARY: Objection to form, object to the 17 THE WITNESS: Well, given the recitals by the
18 relevance. 18 experts who are members of the EQCB Board, that explicitly
19 THE WITNESS: There's a lot of different answers to 19 stated that -- one of them explicitly stated during our
20 that question. I mean, I can't respond. The question is 20 hearing that he did not consider that putting soil down or
21 not specific enough. 21 putting sod down was illegal filling of wetlands. So, I
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 think it depends on who the expert is as to -- I think
23 Q Well, the question is: Are you aware that an illegally 23 there's degrees, and I think there's not a clearcut "yes" or
24 filled wetland is still considered a wetland under the law? 24 "no" answer to your questions.
25 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. That states a 25
Page 252 Page 254
1 legal conclusion. 1 BY MR. ANGELL:
2 THE WITNESS: And I'm not sure you're enough of an 2 Q What you just referred to the EQCB, that's not
3 expert to ask that question properly. 3 contained in the EQCB order, correct?
4 BY MR. ANGELL: 4 A You mean the two-page final order?
5 Q Well, do you believe you're enough of an expert to 5 Q It's not in contained in order, correct?
6 interpret my question? 6 A It's in the transcripts.
7 A No, but I believe there's been some discussion in this 7 Q But the transcripts are not the order. It's not
8 case regarding legality as to when and by whom the stuff was 8 contained in any actual binding order, correct?
9 filled. 9 A It doesn't matter. He's an expert. The guy who stated
10 Q I'm not asking specifics about your case. 10 it was considered an expert by the County.
11 I'm asking you, generally: If a wetland exists and a 11 Q That's not my question, sir.
12 wetland is illegally filled, are you aware that it's still a 12 My question is: Is it stated in any actual order?
13 wetland under the law? 13 MR. LEARY: Objection to the form, and objection to
14 A But I don't know -- I don't -- 14 relevance.
15 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't understand how that relates
16 THE WITNESS: I don't know what you mean by 16 to the question you're asking.
17 illegally filled. 17 BY MR. ANGELL:
18 BY MR. ANGELL: 18 Q My question is: The statement you just made, is it
19 Q As in filled without a permit and -- 19 contained in the order? I understand that you may not
20 MR. LEARY: Objection to relevance. That is not 20 understand how it's relevant.
21 accurate -- 21 A What I'm stating is that --
22 THE WITNESS: Filled without -- 22 Q But that's not my question.
23 THE COURT REPORTER: One at a time. 23 A Sorry. What I'm stating is that, by your own experts
24 MR. LEARY: -- that filling requires a permit. 24 who sit on the EQCB Board, there are clarity issues on what's
25 MR. ANGELL: My question isn't finished. 25 legal and what's not legal filling. So, for me, as a nonexpert,
9 (Pages 251 - 254)

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Page 255 Page 257
1 to make comments on whether I think that filling without a 1 THE WITNESS: No, not to my knowledge.
2 permit, or illegal filling -- I can't answer these questions. 2 BY MR. ANGELL:
3 Q So, we can agree then that you don't have enough 3 Q At any point in time prior to the current lawsuit being
4 expertise to say whether or not the filling of an area of 4 filed, did you have anyone do a wetland delineation on the
5 wetlands would be legal or not legal, correct? 5 property?
6 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to the 6 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
7 relevance. 7 THE WITNESS: You'd have to ask my lawyer because
8 THE WITNESS: I've already stated I believe that 8 he was directing -- he was taking care of the requirements
9 experts from the County have disputed the issue of what's 9 for the environmental study that the court ordered.
10 legal and what's not legal with wetland filling. I'm not an 10 BY MR. ANGELL:
11 expert on wetlands, so obviously I would be even in less of 11 Q I'm talking about before this lawsuit was filed, did
12 a credible position to make such a statement. 12 you ever have a jurisdictional wetland delineation done?
13 BY MR. ANGELL: 13 A Not to my knowledge.
14 Q Do you believe that there are any jurisdictional 14 Q Are you aware under what circumstances a permit is
15 wetlands that existed on your property when you purchased the 15 required to fill a wetland?
16 property? 16 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question.
17 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and object to 17 THE WITNESS: I am more aware now than I was
18 relevance. 18 before.
19 THE WITNESS: At the time that I purchased the 19 BY MR. ANGELL:
20 property I was not aware of what a jurisdictional wetland 20 Q What is your understanding?
21 was. I had never heard the term before. 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 relevance.
23 Q Prior to beginning the construction of your home on the 23 THE WITNESS: My basic understanding is that if
24 subject property, did anyone tell you that there were 24 you're filling something in a jurisdictional wetland you
25 jurisdictional wetlands on the property? 25 need to get a Class 1 permit, which is what we were doing, I
Page 256 Page 258

1 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 1 think, for the submerged land. But, as I said, I delegate,
2 THE WITNESS: The only authoritative information 2 and I do not get involved with the details. You'd have to
3 that I have with respect to that question is the ADID 3 ask my lawyer more details on that.
4 document, which states that it is not probable, and not 4 BY MR. ANGELL:
5 possible for jurisdictional wetlands on my property. 5 Q As you sit here today, do you believe that any
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 jurisdictional wetlands exist on your property?
7 Q When did you acquire the belief that that's what the 7 MR. LEARY: Object to form, and object to
8 ADID says? 8 relevance.
9 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 9 THE WITNESS: I believe in what the ADID says, and
10 THE WITNESS: Because that's what Steve Carney told 10 I believe the answer is no.
11 me. 11 BY MR. ANGELL:
12 BY MR. ANGELL: 12 Q I'm going to refer you back to Exhibit 1.
13 Q Was that before the construction? 13 Is there anywhere, on Exhibit 1, on your property, that
14 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 14 you believe to be a jurisdictional wetland?
15 THE WITNESS: Well, he actually. He is the one 15 MR. LEARY: Object to form and relevance.
16 that did the initial work on my property, environmental work 16 THE WITNESS: I'm not an expert, so I'm just
17 on my property, that went to the County. And, again, I 17 relying on what the ADID says.
18 don't -- I didn't understand or don't recall what would have 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 been in his original documents that were sent to the County, 19 Q Were you required to raise your property in order to
20 but you have them on file and they were exhibits in the 20 meet FEMA flood criteria?
21 EQCB. 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 THE WITNESS: All I know is I was required to raise
23 Q Before you began the construction, did you have anyone 23 the property. I don't know who made that requirement.
24 perform a wetland delineation on the property? 24 Whether it was FEMA, or the County, or who, I have no idea.
25 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question. 25
10 (Pages 255 - 258)

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Page 259 Page 261
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 what that is, that runs on the southern boundary?
2 Q Do you know why you were required to raise the 2 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
3 property? 3 BY MR. ANGELL:
4 A I have no idea. 4 Q Just referring to Photograph 1. We'll get to the other
5 MR. LEARY: Objection to relevance. 5 photographs in a minute.
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
7 Q Was the property raised? 7 THE WITNESS: Looks like sand.
8 A Yes. I couldn't tell you the details of that. You'd 8 BY MR. ANGELL:
9 have to ask my general contractor. 9 Q Do you know how that got there?
10 Q Do you know by how many feet the property was raised?10 A I don't know.
11 A I have no idea. 11 Q Do you know who put it there?
12 Q Do you know what portion of the property was raised? 12 A I don't know.
13 A You'd have to ask my general contractor. 13 Q Do you know where it came from?
14 Q Do you know if the raising of your property caused any 14 A I don't know.
15 flooding issues on neighboring properties? 15 Q I'll refer you to the next photograph of the composite
16 A You'd have to ask my general contractor. 16 exhibit. There's another pile of fill down at the bottom
17 MR. LEARY: Object to form, and object to 17 right-hand corner of that photograph.
18 relevance. 18 Do you see that?
19 BY MR. ANGELL: 19 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
20 Q You don't know? 20 THE WITNESS: Okay.
21 A I've never gotten a complaint. 21 BY MR. ANGELL:
22 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 22 Q Do you know where that pile of fill came from?
23 Exhibit 11 for identification to the deposition.) 23 A I have no idea. This is over 12 years ago.
24 BY MR. ANGELL: 24 Q Do you know who put the pile of fill there?
25 Q I'm going to show you what I've marked as Composite 25 A I have no idea.
Page 260 Page 262
1 Exhibit 11. We'll go one photo at a time. 1 Q Do you know what happened to that pile of fill?
2 Starting with the first photograph of Composite Exhibit 2 A I have no idea.
3 11, there's a mound of fill on the property. 3 Q Referring to the final photograph in Composite Exhibit
4 Do you see that? 4 11, there is another area of fill.
5 A I don't have Composite Exhibit 11. 5 Do you see that?
6 Q This is Composite Exhibit 11 (indicating). 6 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
7 A This says 21. 7 THE WITNESS: Another area?
8 Q No, the exhibit number is the sticker on the corner. 8 BY MR. ANGELL:
9 I'm sorry. Yeah, that's from another -- 9 Q Yes. There's a large area of fill depicted on the
10 A Oh, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 11. 10 third photograph.
11 Q Yes, sir. 11 Do you see it?
12 A It's Composite 21. 12 A Okay.
13 Q For this purpose it's going to be Plaintiff's Composite 13 Q Do you know how that fill got there?
14 11. Sorry for the confusion on the writing on the top. 14 A You'd have to ask the general contractor.
15 There's a pile of fill depicted in that picture. Do 15 Q Do you know where that fill was placed?
16 you see that? 16 A You'd have to ask the general contractor.
17 A Okay. 17 Q Do you know what the purpose of that fill was?
18 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 18 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
19 BY MR. ANGELL: 19 THE WITNESS: You have to ask the contractor.
20 Q Do you know where that fill came from? 20 BY MR. ANGELL:
21 A I don't know. You'd have to ask my contractor. 21 Q When you say I have to ask the contractor, who
22 Q Referring still to the first photograph, the southern 22 specifically are you speaking of?
23 boundary is depicted in that photograph. Do you see that? 23 A I believe, at that time, it was Civic Construction.
24 A I see where it should be. 24 It does look like it's in the area where the drain
25 Q There's a line of white material there. Do you know 25 field is, though, for the septic.
11 (Pages 259 - 262)

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Page 263 Page 265
1 Q You're referring to the third photograph still, 1 BY MR. ANGELL:
2 correct? 2 Q In 2004 there was an e-mail exchange between Mr. Real
3 A Yeah. 3 and Mr. Ricisak, and it involved some correspondence with you as
4 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 4 well.
5 Exhibit 12 for identification to the deposition.) 5 Do you recall that e-mail exchange?
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 A I have no recollection of that.
7 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for 7 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
8 identification as Exhibit 12. This document was created by 8 Exhibit 13 for identification to the deposition.)
9 Steve Carney. 9 BY MR. ANGELL:
10 Have you ever seen this document before? 10 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for
11 A I don't recall. 11 identification as County Exhibit 13.
12 Q According to what Mr. Carney marked on it -- 12 Go ahead and review this document, and when you're done
13 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance -- 13 let me know. And just for the record, it's four pages.
14 BY MR. ANGELL: 14 A Okay. (Witness peruses exhibit.)
15 Q -- there's fill areas? 15 (Comments held off the record.)
16 MR. LEARY: -- on any questions regarding Exhibit 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 12. 17 Q You can go to the last page, which should be the first
18 BY MR. ANGELL: 18 part of this e-mail chain. There's a portion that is allegedly
19 Q According to what Mr. Carney has marked on Exhibit 1219 written by you. It starts: "Willie, I've read the e-mail from
20 at the top...that says "DuBois Property: Fill area from 20 Ricisak."
21 aerials..." he's made a large pink drawing on that diagram. 21 Did you write that?
22 A Okay. 22 A At this point in time, I couldn't tell you. I have no
23 Q Did you direct this diagram to be created? 23 reason to disbelieve it. It sounds like something I would have
24 A I don't recall. 24 written at the time. I recall portions of it.
25 Q Do you know if you've discussed this diagram with Mr. 25 Q It's the same thing. It's just two sides.
Page 264 Page 266

1 Carney? 1
2 A I don't recall. 2 MR. LEARY: Oh, that one is double-sided. So, you
3 Q Back on March 9th of 2004, Mr. Ricisak, on behalf of 3 are talking about the last page?
4 DERM, came to your property to seek access to your property. 4 BY MR. ANGELL:
5 Do you recall that happening? 5 Q Yeah, the last page.
6 A I don't recall. 6 A Some of it doesn't make sense but, for the most part,
7 Q Do you recall him being denied access to the 7 it seems like an accurate representation.
8 property -- 8 Q You reference, in the portion that appears to have been
9 A No. 9 written by you, that you reviewed transcripts.
10 Q -- by your general contractor? 10 A Where is that? Can you point that out to me?
11 A No. 11 Q Sure.
12 Q And in March of 2009 were you aware that DERM had 12 A Which page are we on?
13 already issued a warning to your neighbors, the Burches, for 13 Q I may have messed myself up. Hold on. Yeah. Last
14 alleged environmental violations on their property? 14 page on the second line.
15 A I believe that they were issued a Cease and Desist 15 MR. LEARY: It's on the back of the last page.
16 Order with Mr. Ricisak's name on it some time around that time. 16 THE WITNESS: Back of this one?
17 Q And you were aware of that around that time? 17 BY MR. ANGELL:
18 A Vaguely '08, '09, 2010, something like that. 18 Q Let me give you one that matches counsel's. I
19 Q I'm asking about 2004, are you aware they were parties 19 apologize. I meant to hold onto that.
20 to enforcement action in 2004? 20 MR. LEARY: You should review that one first.
21 A Who? 21 THE WITNESS: No, this was the first page. I read
22 Q The Burches. 22 that.
23 A No. 23 MR. ANGELL: They may not have it in order. I
24 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. That's not 24 apologize if they're out of order.
25 correct, either. 25
12 (Pages 263 - 266)

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Page 267 Page 269
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 Q What specifically did you retain them to do?
2 Q I'm referring to the page that looks like this 2 A It appeared as though there was communication between
3 (indicating). 3 the different agencies in an effort to -- I mean, this is the
4 A Okay. That's my first page. 4 stuff that -- in this thing I just read, Mr. Ricisak apparently
5 Q I'm sorry. That was my error. 5 admits that they came up with a story about the red something
6 It says: "I'm particularly concerned that the 6 hawk, or whatever. "I recall that a red-shouldered hawk flew
7 transcripts I read from you and my superintendent..." 7 over the site during the visit," which is what he told to one of
8 What do you mean by transcripts? 8 my employees there in an attempt to get access to the property.
9 A It appears as though I made a statement that my 9 That kind of stuff was continual, not just with DERM,
10 superintendent gave me some notes. 10 but with the other agencies as well.
11 Q Do you still have those notes? 11 Q Yeah, my question was what did you retain the private
12 A I don't know whether it was -- whether the notes were 12 investigation firm for? What did Florida Intelligence do for
13 verbal or written. I mean, I don't. 13 you?
14 Q Other than what is contained within the -- 14 So, you retained them to look into correspondence
15 A I have no way of knowing. 15 between other government agencies?
16 Q Sorry. Other than what's contained in the exhibit 16 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
17 which you've now reviewed, do you have any other recollection of 17 THE WITNESS: Correct. Yeah, that was the concept.
18 what those transcripts would have said? 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 A You're kidding? 19 Q Did you retain them for any other purpose?
20 Q No. 20 A I don't recall the details back then. They actually,
21 A You expect me to remember any of this stuff from 2004? 21 since DEP backed off completely with their crap, I just dropped
22 Q You'd be surprised what people remember, so I've got to 22 it, at that point.
23 ask the question. I assume it's a no, you do not have 23 Q Did you have an actual retainer agreement with them?
24 recollection of anything dealing with those e-mails? 24 A I don't remember.
25 A I have no idea. I have no clue. 25 Q How long did they work for you?
Page 268 Page 270
1 Q Mr. Ricisak states in a reply to Mr. Real that you can 1 A I don't remember.
2 contact him directly about any concerns that you have. 2 Q Was it more than a month? Was it a year?
3 Did you ever do that? 3 A I don't recall. I really have no idea.
4 A I'm sorry. Can you point that out? 4 Q Did they ever furnish you with any reports?
5 Q Sure. 5 A Like I said, it was mostly preliminary discussions. I
6 MR. LEARY: Does he say that to Mr. DuBois? 6 don't even remember if they actually started working on it or
7 BY MR. ANGELL: 7 not. I spoke to them about it. I don't remember how far we
8 Q It's on this page (indicating). 8 went, or what was done. I just don't recall because, as I said,
9 A Please forward...speak to me directly. Okay. But 9 the people at DEP immediately backed off.
10 according to this e-mail, I wasn't copied on this. 10 Q Do you know if they ever contacted DEP?
11 Q Right, but were you ever told that Mr. Ricisak told 11 A I don't know.
12 Mr. Real that? 12 Q Did you ever contact DEP in 2004?
13 A Really? You're going to ask that question? 13 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
14 Q Yeah. 14 THE WITNESS: Well, I think this e-mail they were
15 A I have no idea. 15 copied on, were they not?...one of these e-mails?
16 Q Did you ever contact Mr. Ricisak about your concerns? 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 A I don't recall. It's possible. I don't even recall if 17 Q Well, those e-mails aren't directed from you; they're
18 I spoke to anybody at DERM, at that time. 18 from Real.
19 Q There's also an e-mail, on this exhibit which we've now 19 My question is: Did you personally contact DEP?
20 reviewed, that says that you were going to retain Florida 20 A I think there was an e-mail. I don't remember if it
21 Intelligence, a private investigation firm. 21 was from me, or Real, or whoever, whereby they were either sent
22 A Yeah. 22 or copied a bunch of the people, including the our mayor, who
23 Q Did you do that? 23 was mayor back then. They were all copied on the communication
24 A Yes. I mean, yeah, I talked to them and told them I 24 about Florida Intelligence investigating the communication
25 wanted them working on the case. 25 between the various government entities.
13 (Pages 267 - 270)

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Page 271 Page 273
1 Q In that e-mail where you talk about retaining Florida 1 just say you're certifying them. That's how the process works.
2 Intelligence, you said they're going to take a statement from 2 THE WITNESS: What do I do?
3 Mr. Real. 3 MR. LEARY: You can do what you choose to do.
4 Did they take a statement from Mr. Real? 4 MR. ANGELL: But I've got to ask the questions.
5 A I don't recall. 5 So, I can't move on until I do.
6 Q Did they take a statement from any DERM employees, to 6 THE WITNESS: All right.
7 your knowledge? 7 BY MR. ANGELL:
8 A I don't think so. 8 Q You said that there are two or three firms that you
9 Q Did they take a statement from Donald Keirn of DEP? 9 retained.
10 A I don't believe so. 10 Do you recall the names of any of those firms?
11 Q Did they ever take a statement of the Department of the 11 A I'm not answering the question unless I'm compelled to
12 Interior officer that you referenced? 12 do so.
13 A As I said, I believe we dropped it because DEP backed 13 Q You can just say: I'm certifying the question --
14 off as soon as they got the e-mail. 14 A I certify it. Excuse me.
15 Q Did you ever learn the identity of the Department of 15 Q --because I've got to ask them, so it makes it faster
16 the Interior officer? 16 for us.
17 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 17 Do you recall where any of those firms are located?
18 THE WITNESS: I don't recall the Department of the 18 A Certify that question.
19 Interior being involved. 19 Q Do you recall if you had a retainer agreement with any
20 BY MR. ANGELL: 20 of those firms?
21 Q Do you still employ Florida Intelligence? 21 A Certify the question.
22 MR. LEARY: Objection to relevance. 22 Q Do you recall what years you employed those firms?
23 THE WITNESS: I have no relationship with Florida 23 A Certify the question.
24 Intelligence. 24 Q Do you recall what the scope of work was with those
25 25 firms?
Page 272 Page 274
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 A Certify the question.
2 Q Do you currently employ any private investigation firm? 2 Q Do you recall if they ever gave you any reports or
3 A You mean at this current moment? 3 documentation?
4 Q Yes. 4 A Certify the question.
5 A No. 5 Q Do you recall how much you paid those firms?
6 Q During the pendency of this case, other than Florida 6 A Certify the question.
7 Intelligence, have you retained the services of any private 7 Q Do you recall specifically who you worked with at those
8 investigation firms? 8 investigation firms?
9 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 9 A Certify the question.
10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 10 Q Do you recall if you tasked any of those firms to do an
11 BY MR. ANGELL: 11 investigation of any DERM employees?
12 Q Who? What firm? 12 A Certify the question.
13 A There were two or three. 13 Q Do you recall if you tasked those firms with the
14 Q I'm sorry? 14 investigation of any county employee?
15 A There were two or three firms. 15 A Certify the question.
16 Q Which firms? 16 Q Do you recall if you tasked those firms to perform any
17 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance of any 17 form of surveillance on anyone related to this case?
18 questions regarding firms retained by Mr. DuBois. 18 A Certify the question.
19 THE WITNESS: I don't feel compelled to answer that 19 Q Do you recall if you had either/or any of those private
20 question. 20 investigation firms pull any financial records on any DERM
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 employee?
22 Q So, are you certifying that question and refusing to 22 A Certify the question.
23 answer it? 23 Q Do you recall if you had any of those firms pull any
24 A (Nods head affirmatively.) 24 phone records of any DERM employee?
25 Q Okay. I have to ask the questions anyway, and then you 25 A Certify the question.
14 (Pages 271 - 274)

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Page 275 Page 277
1 Q Do you recall if you had any of those private 1 THE WITNESS: Correct.
2 investigation firms gather any social media documentation or 2 BY MR. ANGELL:
3 information on any county employee? 3 Q You also state in that same e-mail, in the second
4 A Certify the question. 4 paragraph that: "Furthermore, since the last time DERM was
5 Q When was the last time you employed a private 5 onsite two days before my construction permit was issued in
6 investigation firm in furtherance of this case? 6 February of 2003..."
7 A Certify the question. 7 A What page are you on?
8 Q I think I'm done with those. 8 Q Same page, the paragraph that starts with: "I do not
9 A All right. 9 believe that Mr. Keirn saw any mangroves being cut because there
10 Q Let me refer you to something. 10 were no mangroves being cut. Furthermore, since the last time
11 Also on Exhibit 13, the last paragraph of the e-mail 11 DERM was onsite, two days before my construction permit was
12 that says: "Finally, please let DERM know that once we are 12 issued in February of 2003, there has not been any mangrove
13 finished with construction on the property, I plan to have an 13 cutting, nor will there be any mangrove cutting prior to the
14 onsite meeting with DERM to lay out a comprehensive plan for the 14 completion of construction."
15 mangroves, the boat dock I want to put in, and the landscaping 15 A Okay.
16 plan. However, none of this would begin until we are done with 16 Q The construction of your home was completed in 2007,
17 construction." 17 right?
18 Did that meeting ever take place? 18 A Well, the Certificate of Occupancy was issued in
19 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question. 19 December of '06.
20 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Where was that? 20 Q Okay. So, the construction was finished in '06?
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to
22 Q Paragraph beginning with "finally" just above where it 22 relevance.
23 says "John." 23 THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
24 A At the end there? 24
25 Q Yes, sir. 25 BY MR. ANGELL:
Page 276 Page 278

1 A (Witness reads to himself). 1 Q Was any mangrove cutting done on your property between
2 What's your question about that? 2 February of 2003, and we'll say the Certificate of Occupancy in
3 Q Did that meeting ever take place that you reference in 3 2006.
4 that e-mail? 4 A I don't recall.
5 A I don't think so. 5 Q Were any mangroves removed from your property between
6 Q Why not? 6 February of 2003 and the completion of, or the issuance of the
7 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to the 7 Certificate of Occupancy in 2006?
8 relevance. 8 A You need to be more clear on the question. You're
9 THE WITNESS: Because DERM spent a great amount of 9 talking about trimmings, or entire trees?
10 time, after everybody else was finished -- well, during the 10 Q I'm talking about entire trees being removed.
11 construction of my house, finding noncompliance issues in 11 A No...at least not live ones.
12 order to hold up my Certificate of Occupancy. So, it took 12 Q Well, do you know if any trimming took place between
13 years, and I think there were over 150 noncompliance issues 13 2003 and 2006?
14 that they came up with. 14 A I don't recall. It was a long time ago.
15 BY MR. ANGELL: 15 Q Would you keep any documentation, if there had been any
16 Q Is that why you decided not to ask for that meeting? 16 documentation of any trimming during those years?
17 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 17 A I think you have better documentation than I do.
18 THE WITNESS: Well, it doesn't take a rocket 18 Q On January 27th of 2010, Mr. Ricisak left a business
19 scientist to figure out that there was a little bit 19 card at the front of your property with a written request for
20 animosity there on their part. 20 you to contact him.
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 Do you recall that?
22 Q So, is that a yes, that you decided not to call for 22 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
23 that meeting? 23 THE WITNESS: You said -- say the date again.
24 MR. LEARY: Object to relevance, and object to the 24
25 form. 25 BY MR. ANGELL:
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1 Q Sure. January 27th of 2010. 1 Q On December 22, 2010 were you aware that two employees
2 A No. The first time I recall seeing his name, other 2 had come to the front gate of your property?
3 than on the Burch stuff next door, would have been like December 3 A I don't recall.
4 of 2010 when the ticket was issued. 4 Q You actually spoke with Mr. Ricisak on December 22nd of
5 MR. ANGELL: I'll take this back. We're done with 5 2010 --
6 this. Sorry, sir. 6 A When he was on the boat.
7 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 7 Q -- when he was on the boat, correct?
8 Exhibit 14 for identification to the deposition.) 8 A Yeah.
9 BY MR. ANGELL: 9 Q Describe to me the first time that you met Mr. Ricisak
10 Q I'm showing you what's been marked for identification 10 on December 22, 2010.
11 as Exhibit 14. 11 A I documented it --
12 A Yeah, this was December of 2010. That's what I said I 12 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
13 thought. 13 THE WITNESS: -- at the time. And, I mean,
14 Q Did I give you the same page twice? 14 obviously that documentation is going to be an accurate
15 A Yeah. It's what it says here, and that's what I said. 15 recollection, whereas what I remember now is not going to
16 Q I think I may have given you the same page twice. I 16 be.
17 did. Sorry. Let me give you this one because it has a back to 17 BY MR. ANGELL:
18 it, and I want to make sure you see it. This is Exhibit 14, 18 Q Okay. I understand that.
19 which is now double-sided. 19 What is your recollection, as you sit here?
20 So, you are familiar with that document? 20 A Something to the effect that you can only trim to six
21 A Yeah, I recall getting this. 21 feet, and I said, yes. Then I told him that -- he asked if he
22 Q The very last paragraph of that document says: If you 22 could get access to the property, and I said no. And we had
23 wish to discuss about the matter to contact the undersigned. 23 words about the Cease and Desist that I said was completely
24 Did you do that? 24 inaccurate, and that I'd be sending a letter. That's pretty
25 A I don't recall, probably not. 25 much what I recall from that.
Page 280 Page 282

1 Q Why not? 1 Q Do you recall if anybody else was with Mr. Ricisak at
2 A Why would I? 2 the time?
3 Q So, you didn't have any concerns that you wanted to 3 A Yeah, a Luis Fernandez, Hernandez, something like that,
4 discuss with Mr. Ricisak, at that time? 4 I think was with him.
5 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 5 Q Did you speak with him at all?
6 THE WITNESS: Well, I think it was around that time 6 A No. Maybe that was a different boat trip I saw
7 when he came up on a little boat. And I said I would tell 7 Mr. Fernandez on with him. I don't recall.
8 him why his Cease and Desist was factually incorrect. And I 8 Q Do you recall if anybody was with you on your property
9 believe I did send him something after that. 9 when you were speaking with Mr. Ricisak that would have heard
10 BY MR. ANGELL: 10 the conversation?
11 Q Well, do you recall what date it was exactly that he 11 A I don't think so.
12 came up to your property in a boat? 12 Q On December 22nd of 2010 did your property have
13 A The date he came on the boat I thought was December 13 surveillance at the front gate?
14 22nd of 2010 because I was having a Christmas party that day. 14 A What kind of surveillance?
15 Q Prior to December 22nd of 2010, have you ever 15 Q Like video surveillance.
16 personally spoken to Mr. Ricisak? 16 A In 2010?
17 A Prior to coming -- not to my recollection. 17 Q Yes.
18 Q On December 22nd of 2010 were you aware that before 18 A I probably did. I don't recall.
19 they approached your property by water, two DERM employees had 19 Q I assume you would no longer keep that footage or have
20 come to your front gate? 20 that footage?
21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to 21 A From 2010?
22 relevance. 22 Q You never know.
23 THE WITNESS: You mean while I was not there? 23 A No.
24 24 Q On December 22nd of 2010, did you have security footage
25 BY MR. ANGELL: 25 or security cameras that would have captured anyone approaching
16 (Pages 279 - 282)

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1 from the water? 1 Q Mr. Ricisak issued a Civil Violation Notice or a ticket
2 A To be honest, I don't recall when I put the video 2 to you that was dated January 21, 2011.
3 surveillance stuff in. It may not have been there in 2010. 3 Do you recall that?
4 Q Do you have video surveillance now? 4 A Yeah.
5 A Yes. 5 Q How did you first become aware of the ticket?
6 Q I understand you have video surveillance that would 6 A I think somebody brought it to my attention. I think
7 capture the front gate. 7 it was hung in a plastic bag or something on the front gate.
8 Do you also have any that would capture anyone coming 8 Q Did you retrieve it yourself from the front gate, or
9 from the water? 9 did someone bring it to you from the front gate?
10 A I do now. I don't remember exactly when it was put in. 10 A I don't recall.
11 It was put in subsequently to when the majority of the system 11 Q Other than the ticket, was there anything else inside
12 was put in. 12 the plastic bag?
13 Q Would you still have records as to when that was put 13 A I don't recall.
14 in? 14 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
15 A No, I mean, I would have put it in myself. 15 Exhibit 16 for identification to the deposition.)
16 Q So, you did it yourself? 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 A Yes. 17 Q I'm showing you Exhibit 16.
18 Q Do you know an individual named Jim Roff? 18 Is this the ticket?
19 A No. 19 A It looks like it. Yeah, yes.
20 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 20 Q When you got the ticket, did you read the ticket?
21 Exhibit 15 for identification to the deposition.) 21 A When I got it? Of course, I read it.
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 Q At the time that you got the ticket, what was your
23 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for 23 understanding as to why the ticket was issued?
24 identification as Exhibit 15. 24 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
25 A Miami-Dade Police Department. 25 THE WITNESS: Well, it was pretty wet and
Page 284 Page 286
1 Q Have you ever seen this document before? 1 weathered. I put it down. I ended up reading it, I think
2 A I have no idea. 2 it was about 3 days before the due date, or the deadline or
3 Q You've never seen this before? 3 whatever, to pay. And I couldn't go to court because I
4 A No. 4 didn't have time. I had some business meetings. So, I just
5 Q Do you have any knowledge of the matter described in 5 paid the ticket. It looked like -- I mean, it looked like
6 this police report? 6 the same thing they give you for parking tickets, so I
7 A I'm not sure what the police report matter is. 7 figured if I paid it, it would just go away.
8 Q There's a paragraph towards the bottom that says 8 BY MR. ANGELL:
9 narrative. 9 Q Do you recall when you paid the ticket, a month?
10 A Okay. "This unit responded to the above location 10 A It was a few days before whatever the 30-day deadline
11 reference a suspicious incident. C1 advised Z1 called his cell 11 or whatever they give you to pay it was.
12 phone and said he found his house keys. C1 advised this officer 12 Q You say that the ticket was wet and weathered.
13 he hasn't lost his keys and did not know Z1. C1 was advised to 13 What do you mean by that?
14 change his locks to prevent..." 14 A Well, it was sitting outside for days, so obviously
15 I have no idea what this is. 15 with the rain and the sun it got weathered.
16 Q So, you have no knowledge of what's contained in this 16 Q Were you able to read any portion of the citation?
17 report? 17 A Yes.
18 A I have no idea. 18 Q Was there any portion of the citation you were unable
19 Q Were you ever made aware that Mr. Ricisak had been a 19 to read?
20 victim of identity theft starting in 2013? 20 A I believe I was able to read the whole thing.
21 A No. 21 Q The citation says that you have the right to appeal the
22 Q Have you ever become aware of the identity of anyone 22 citation.
23 who's responsible for Mr. Ricisak's identity theft issue? 23 You did not do that, correct?
24 A I had no idea he was a victim of identity theft, nor 24 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
25 would I know anything about it. 25 THE WITNESS: So, what it says here on the ticket,
17 (Pages 283 - 286)

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1 which is what I read -- and I didn't have a lawyer, and 1 deposition in the Burch case?
2 obviously I'm not a lawyer. 2 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to the
3 What the ticket says is: "Failure to pay civil 3 relevance.
4 penalty and correct violation, or file a request for 4 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Vaguely, I know that they
5 administrative hearing by dates shown, shall constitute a 5 tried on a couple of occasions. They sent me a couple of
6 waiver of your right to a hearing and such waiver shall 6 letters to my P.O. Box.
7 constitute an admission of violation." 7 BY MR. ANGELL:
8 So, what that said to me, in layman's terms, is if 8 Q Were you ever successfully subpoenaed for a deposition
9 I don't pay the ticket it's an admission of guilt, so I paid 9 in the Burch case?
10 the ticket. 10 A I don't know what you mean by successfully. I never
11 BY MR. ANGELL: 11 gave my deposition, no.
12 Q Right above it, it says "you shall," and then Paragraph 12 Q Were you ever personally served with the subpoena?
13 Nos. 1 and 2, you may request an administrative hearing before a 13 A No.
14 hearing officer to appeal the decision of the code inspector 14 Q Did a process server ever come to your home address to
15 officer on or before 20 days upon receipt? 15 serve you with a subpoena?
16 A Yeah, I missed the 20 days. That was the problem. 16 MR. LEARY: Objection to relevance of any questions
17 Q Well, it says "upon receipt." So, nonetheless, you 17 regarding services in an unrelated case.
18 didn't attempt to appeal, correct? 18 THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge.
19 A Yeah. I paid it like three days before, because I had 19 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
20 planned on going to the hearing, but then I missed the deadline 20 Exhibit 17 for identification to the deposition.)
21 so I just paid it, because otherwise, according to this, it 21 BY MR. ANGELL:
22 would be an admission of guilt if I didn't pay it. 22 Q I'm showing you Exhibit 17.
23 Q Did you have any questions about the ticket before you 23 Do you recognize that document?
24 paid it? 24 A I'm guessing this is the letter that came with the
25 A I just read what I read to you, and assumed that I 25 ticket?
Page 288 Page 290
1 would be admitting guilt if I didn't pay it, so I paid it. 1 Q Yes.
2 Q Did you discuss the ticket with anybody at the time 2 A Okay.
3 that you received it? 3 Q When was the first time you actually read that letter?
4 A No. 4 A I don't recall.
5 Q Did you discuss the ticket with anybody prior to paying 5 Q Did you read it before paying the citation?
6 it? 6 A I don't recall.
7 A No. 7 Q Did you ever attempt to contact Mr. Ricisak about the
8 Q The ticket that you received, was it an original or a 8 letter or the citation before paying it?
9 copy? 9 A No.
10 A How would I know? 10 Q Did you ever attempt to talk with anybody at DERM about
11 Q Well, I'm asking if you know. Do you know? 11 the letter or the citation before paying the citation?
12 A It was a pink one, so I assume that was the original 12 A No.
13 document. 13 Q Okay.
14 Q Were there any other documents with the ticket? 14 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
15 A I believe subsequently I found out that there was that 15 Exhibit 18 for identification to the deposition.)
16 letter that was with it. 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 Q What do you mean subsequently there was a letter with 17 Q I'm showing you what has been marked for identification
18 it? 18 as County Exhibit 18, which is two-sided.
19 A Well, when I was given the ticket I had just looked at 19 A Okay.
20 the ticket and realized I had to pay it within a few days. 20 Q Do you recall that incident?
21 Q When you were given the ticket was the letter with the 21 A Oh, yes.
22 ticket at the same time? 22 Q Can you describe the incident for me?
23 A I don't recall. 23 A Yes. Sure.
24 Q Were you aware that at about the same time you received24 Q Well, as in how did you become aware that this had
25 the ticket, the County was trying to subpoena you for a 25 happened on your property?
18 (Pages 287 - 290)

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1 A So, in the morning -- this was on a Monday, about 7:00 1 MR. ANGELL: On Exhibit 1.
2 clock in the morning. I just happened to be outside looking 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
3 down the channel, my channel. 10 days prior to that, I had sent 3 BY MR. ANGELL:
4 an e-mail to Tom Robertson, county attorney, and to DERM giving 4 Q And the mangrove tree that you say was, in your words,
5 them notice of a 10-day notice to trim under the exemption. 5 hacked up, where was that?
6 Areas identified in Exhibit 1, I believe, to be D like David and 6 A All the way at the end of the island, Section B,
7 C like Charlie. And then, the County said no to C -- I forgot 7 completely out of visibility from the house or the property.
8 whether it was both areas, but definitely C was included. The 8 Q Did you see any other damage to any other mangroves at
9 County said no to C. And then, 10 days was the Monday morning 9 that time?
10 in question, which would have been Monday, March -- does it say 10 A No.
11 the date here? If Friday was the 29th, it would have been the 11 Q You offered a reward of $50,000 for any information
12 24, 25th I think. 12 leading to the arrest of the responsible person?
13 Q I think it's 25. 13 A Right.
14 A At 7:00 in the morning I went out, and I noticed in the 14 Q Is that right?
15 channel, that there was what looked like a broken part of a red 15 A Yes.
16 mangrove that was almost like somebody had tied their boat to it 16 Q Did you ever figure out who was responsible?
17 and broke a piece off. 17 A At the time, I wasn't sure whether it was the
18 So, I thought that was strange. So, I grabbed the 18 individual at the end of this table, or whether it was some
19 little pontoon boat to go around the island, to come down and 19 political -- as a result of some of the politics in my village,
20 take a closer look. And when I, luckily, went around the end of 20 people on the other side that were trying to set me up. But
21 the island, all the way at the end of the island I noticed 21 then, over time, after interviewing some of Mr. Ricisak's former
22 somebody had come the night before. And the reason I knew it 22 employees, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't from the
23 was the night before I'll tell you in a second, but they came 23 politics of people in Palmetto Bay.
24 the night before -- 24 Q Well, the person sitting at the end of the table would
25 Q You read my mind. Go ahead. 25 be the reporter actually.
Page 292 Page 294
1 A -- and started hacking the largest old white mangrove 1 A John Ricisak.
2 at the end of my island, which was almost, you know, like a 2 Q So, you believe it could have been Mr. Ricisak or a
3 historical tree on my property that all the residents that lived 3 political opponent, right?
4 on that property and the neighbors kind of used to use it as a 4 A To the best of my belief, yes.
5 tree house. I used to take naps in that thing in the 5 Q Then you said that you interviewed people that used to
6 afternoons. And then, I realized that it had happened the night 6 work for Mr. Ricisak.
7 before -- well, that morning at about 3 a.m., because my dogs 7 A Correct.
8 stay outside at nighttime, and were barking their brains out at 8 Q Who did you interview that used to work for Mr.
9 3:00 in the morning. And they normally don't bark that much. 9 Ricisak?
10 So, you know, half the time, I grab a weapon and go 10 A I'm going to ask that that question be certified.
11 outside and see who's out there. For whatever reason, I just 11 Q All right. Then I've got to ask you all the questions
12 decided to go back to sleep unfortunately. And then, in the 12 that go along with that. So, just say certify it after each
13 morning when I saw everything that was hacked there, I realized 13 question if you're not going to answer.
14 that somebody had come on my property during high tide, at about 14 The individuals that you questioned about Mr. Ricisak,
15 3:00 in the morning, which was high tide time, and destroyed the 15 that you interviewed, did you interview them personally, or did
16 tree, or partially destroyed the tree. 16 you have someone do it for you?
17 Q The area where you first noticed a broken mangrove 17 A Personally.
18 where you believe a boat had been tied to it, where was that on 18 Q Did you take any written statements from them?
19 the property? 19 A Let's go with certify the question.
20 A It was in the blue area right about there (indicating). 20 Q Did you take any notes?
21 Q Referring to Exhibit 1? 21 A Let's go with certify the question.
22 A Right near the letter. 22 Q Did you take any recorded statements?
23 Q Right under the letter -- the letter is A? 23 A Let's go with certify the question.
24 24 Q Was a court reporter present for any of these
25 MR. LEARY: A? 25 statements?
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1 A Certify the question. 1 the DERM employees -- oh, sorry. Let me rephrase that.
2 Q Were affidavits created for any of these statements? 2 Was anyone else present when you interviewed the people
3 A Certify the question. 3 who used to work for Mr. Ricisak?
4 Q Were any of these statements video-recorded? 4 A Certify the question.
5 A Certify the question. 5 Q Did you have a lawyer present when you interviewed any
6 Q How many people in total did you interview? 6 of these people?
7 A Certify the question. 7 A Certify the question.
8 Q Where were the interviews conducted? 8 Q Did your lawyer interview any of these people?
10 Q Who else was present for the interviews? 10 Q Other than these people giving you their opinion about
11 A Certify the question. 11 Mr. Ricisak, and statements about Mr. Ricisak, did any of them
12 Q How did you determine which people to interview? 12 claim to have any first-hand knowledge of Mr. Ricisak's alleged
13 A Certify the question. 13 involvement in the mangrove alteration that was recorded in the
14 Q How did you know who worked for Mr. Ricisak? 14 Miami Herald on March 29th 2013?
16 Q Was the sole topic of the interview the mangrove issue 16 Q Do you, yourself, have any physical evidence to
17 that was reported by The Herald on March 29th, 2013? 17 demonstrate that Mr. Ricisak was responsible for this incident?
19 MR. LEARY: Object to the form and relevance. 19 Q Do you, yourself, have any surveillance footage of the
20 BY MR. ANGELL: 20 area?
21 Q What other issues did you discuss with the people that 21 A Certify the question.
22 used to work for Mr. Ricisak? 22 Q Do you have any surveillance footage that shows the
23 A Certify the question. 23 person responsible?
24 Q Had any of those people been to your property prior to 24 A Certify the question.
25 you interviewing them about Mr. Ricisak? 25 Q How was the media alerted about the incident?
Page 296 Page 298

1 A Certify the question. 1 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
2 Q Are you still friends with any of those people that you 2 THE WITNESS: How was the media -- I don't recall.
3 interviewed? 3 I mean, I notified some of the media.
4 A Certify the question. 4 BY MR. ANGELL:
5 Q I should rephrase it anyway. 5 Q Did you do a police report as well?
6 Are you friends with any of those people that you 6 A Yes, there was a police report that I had. I called
7 interviewed? 7 the police.
8 A Certify the question. 8 Q On August 26th, 2015 DERM did an inspection on your
9 Q Do you employ any of those people that you interviewed? 9 property to look at survey stakes that were done by Exacta
10 A Certify the question. 10 Surveyors.
11 Q When did those people stop working for Mr. Ricisak? 11 Do you recall that?
12 A Certify the question. 12 A Yes.
13 Q When you say that they worked for Mr. Ricisak, did they 13 Q You were present that day, right?
14 work for Mr. Ricisak in his individual capacity, or as part of 14 A Yeah.
15 the County? 15 Q Did you or anyone in your employment direct the
16 A Certify the question. 16 placement of those stakes by Exacta Surveyors?
17 Q Were these people that Mr. Ricisak used to supervise? 17 A No.
18 A Certify the question. 18 Q At the time that the inspection was being done you were
19 Q Did any of these people say anything positive about Mr. 19 accompanied by Jose Luis Castillo, is that correct?
20 Ricisak? 20 A Correct, yeah.
21 A Certify the question. 21 Q What is your relationship with him?
22 Q When you interviewed these people, did you interview 22 A He's been my campaign advisor.
23 them about any other DERM employee, other than Mr. Ricisak? 23 Q Was he there for the purpose of the inspection, or was
24 A Certify the question. 24 he there for something unrelated?
25 Q Was anybody else present when you did the interviews of 25 A We were friends also, so he was just in the
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1 neighborhood. 1 Q In May of 2016 the mean high waterline was staked on
2 Q Did you ever have him do any work on this case? 2 your property.
3 A I don't recall him ever doing any work on this case. 3 Were you aware of that?
4 Q Do you recall why he was present that day? 4 A Okay.
5 A Actually, I don't recall. 5 Q Were you aware of that?
6 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 6 A If you say so.
7 Exhibit 19 for identification to the deposition.) 7 Q Were you present when the mean high waterline was
8 BY MR. ANGELL: 8 staked?
9 Q Also present that day was this man in Exhibit 19 9 A I don't know.
10 (indicating photo). 10 Q Do you know who staked the mean high waterline?
11 Who is this man? 11 A I have no idea.
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 12 Q The mean high waterline was not staked prior to the
13 THE WITNESS: That's a friend. 13 issuance of Mr. Schael's report as required by the court order.
14 BY MR. ANGELL: 14 Were you aware of that?
15 Q What's his name? 15 MR. LEARY: Object to relevance.
16 A Leo Cordera. 16 THE WITNESS: Like I said, I delegate everything,
17 Q Why was he there that day? 17 and that was a delegated project. So, you'd have to ask my
18 A I think he had just finished bringing back my drone 18 attorney.
19 from repair, and he was testing it. 19 BY MR. ANGELL:
20 Q There was a drone used that day, that was your drone? 20 Q The court order also required that a jurisdictional
21 A No, he has his own drone. He has one with video. Mine 21 wetland boundary be staked prior to the issuance of Mr. Schael's
22 doesn't have video. 22 report.
23 Q So, he was flying a drone that day? Which drone was he 23 Do you know if that was done prior to the issuance of
24 flying? 24 Mr. Schael's report?
25 A He was flying his drone with the video, and I think he 25 A You'd have to ask my attorney.
Page 300 Page 302

1 had just brought my drone back and we tested that as well, I 1 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
2 think. 2 BY MR. ANGELL:
3 Q And why was he flying a video drone? 3 Q Do you know where on your property Mr. Schael claims
4 A Because he wanted to take video of my property. 4 the jurisdictional wetland boundary to exist?
5 Q Did you direct him to record? 5 MR. LEARY: Object to relevance.
6 A No. 6 THE WITNESS: I do not get involved with details.
7 Q Do you still have -- well, do you have the recording, 7 I have no idea.
8 or does he have the recording? 8 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
9 A Yeah, I think it was stored somewhere on one of the -- 9 Exhibit 20 for identification to the deposition.)
10 not YouTube, but one of those -- I can get it for you, if you 10 BY MR. ANGELL:
11 want. 11 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for
12 Q So, it was stored on some social media site? 12 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 20. It consists of three
13 A No, it was like a drop box type of thing. 13 pages. Once you review them I'm going to ask you a few
14 Q Do you have access to it? 14 questions.
15 A I think so, yes. 15 A Okay.
16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Excuse me. We need to take a 16 Q The response -- the first page of this exhibit, first
17 break in a couple of minutes. I need to change the tape. 17 page of Exhibit 20 is a request by the County regarding the
18 MR. ANGELL: Okay. Do you want to break now? 18 report issued by Mr. Schael, and the second two pages are the
19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:10. We are going 19 response to that request.
20 off the video record. 20 Did you participate at all in drafting that response?
21 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken from 12:10 21 A No.
22 p.m. until 12:15 p.m.) 22 Q Did you review the response before it was sent?
23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record, Media 23 A I don't recall reviewing it, no.
24 Unit No. 2. 24 Q The request for additional information, the first
25 BY MR. ANGELL: 25 request says: Please identify the locations and approximate
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1 number of mangrove trees trimmed and/or altered in violation of 1 Q Well, this stand of vegetation you've been questioned
2 Chapter 24 of the Miami-Dade County Code on the subject site. 2 about before at the EQCB.
3 Then it goes onto request square footage of canopy removed. 3 Do you recall that?
4 The response provided by your lawyer and Mr. Schael 4 A I don't recall the specific questions regarding it,
5 states that the only area on the subject property believed to 5 but, yes, that was a topic of discussion.
6 contain mangrove trees trimmed, altered, or removed in violation 6 Q Do you recall the topic of discussion being
7 of Chapter 24 is along the southern boundary. 7 consistently that this band of vegetation has been removed?
8 Were you aware that this was their response to that 8 A No, not that the entire band of vegetation has been
9 question? 9 removed, but maybe it has. I don't recall.
10 A I was aware that over the years of the case that was 10 Q Now, the band of vegetation...and I'll mark it with red
11 the issue, as to where the property line was, and what mix of 11 from here to here, which I will supplement this for the
12 trees was in there, and which trees were on my side versus their 12 exhibit...has been removed.
13 side, yes. 13 Do you recall that?
14 Q I don't have any more questions on this for you. 14 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question.
15 Moving us right along, and going to Exhibit 21. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't know how much vegetation was
16 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 16 removed out of this picture. I couldn't tell you.
17 Exhibit No. 21 for identification to the deposition.) 17 BY MR. ANGELL:
18 BY MR. ANGELL: 18 Q Would you agree that the same amount of vegetation
19 Q Does Exhibit 21 show the southern boundary of your 19 shown in that picture is no longer there today?
20 property? 20 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question. 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
22 THE WITNESS: I can say that part of the southern 22 THE WITNESS: I'd have to go out today and look.
23 boundary is definitely in Exhibit 21 somewhere. 23
24 BY MR. ANGELL: 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 Q The part of the southern boundary that is depicted in 25 Q After the break I will provide you with a larger
Page 304 Page 306

1 Exhibit 21, is it the boundary between your property and the 1 photograph so you can see the area.
2 Burch property or part of that boundary? 2 A Thank you.
3 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 3 Q We'll do it that way, so that way you can orient
4 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I just said that. 4 yourself.
5 BY MR. ANGELL: 5 A If you do side by side that would be helpful.
6 Q The vegetation that is depicted on the southern 6 Q Yeah, that way you can orient yourself. We can do it
7 boundary between your property and the Burch property in Exhibit 7 that way.
8 21, does that still exist today? 8 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
9 A I don't know. I'd have to take this picture and walk 9 Exhibit No. 22 for identification to the deposition.)
10 the property to answer that question. 10 BY MR. ANGELL:
11 Q Well, this is the area of the alleged violation in 11 Q I'm showing you what has been marked for identification
12 which the palm trees were planted. 12 as Exhibit 22.
13 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 13 A Letter to the Editor.
14 THE WITNESS: I don't even know where the property 14 Q I know you're reviewing it, so I'll let you review it
15 line is from this picture. 15 before I ask you questions about it.
16 BY MR. ANGELL: 16 A Okay. Very well written.
17 Q Can you not orient yourself based upon this picture? 17 Q Did you write that letter?
18 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 18 A It's very well written, so it must have been me.
19 THE WITNESS: I still don't know where the line is 19 Q Did anybody else assist or participate with you in
20 on my property, since the surveys are many feet apart in 20 writing that letter?
21 terms of where the property lines are. 21 A Well, I wrote the letter.
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 Q Yeah, I know it was published by somebody else, but the
23 Q Well, you're familiar with what the last survey was of 23 content of the letter, was that all you writing it, presenting
24 your property, correct? 24 it?
25 A I don't know where the property line is. 25 A Well, I got the information from Mr. Burch, but I wrote
22 (Pages 303 - 306)

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1 it. 1 Burch with the maintenance of any erosion issues?
2 Q You stated in that letter to the editor that Mr. Burch 2 A I have never done any such work on his property, no.
3 was cited for simply doing historic maintenance on his property. 3 Q And now it's April Burch's property, so the same answer
4 A That's the way he explained it to, yeah. 4 for April Burch, you haven't assisted with maintenance or
5 Q So, all that information you got from Mr. Burch 5 erosion filling?
6 himself? 6 A Same answer. I have not done any work on that property
7 A Yeah. 7 to help with erosion or mangroves.
8 Q Did you also get any of that information from April 8 Q Has anyone in your employment ever helped with mangrove
9 Burch? 9 maintenance or erosion issues on the Burch property?
10 A I don't believe so. I spent hours and hours and hours 10 A Not under my direction, and not to my knowledge.
11 sitting with Mr. Burch when I first moved down here, when I was 11 Q Other than Mr. Burch, do you know of anyone else who
12 living on -- well, after I had bought the property, just hanging 12 did mangrove maintenance on his property?
13 out there with him. And he had very good memory, very good 13 A Just this guy, Bob.
14 recollection of the history of the area, his property and all 14 Q Bob has come up before. Do you know Bob's last name?
15 the stories. And so, we spent a lot of time together. 15 A I don't know his last name.
16 Q Do you know what the historic maintenance that you 16 Q Bob used to live on the property?
17 reference in the letter to the editor consisted of? 17 A He was there for extended periods of time. He was a
18 A I'm sorry? 18 friend of April's.
19 Q Do you know what the historic maintenance consisted of? 19 Q Do you recall what years Bob was on the property?
20 I mean, what does that mean that he did historic maintenance? 20 A Well, he was the one that did -- when DERM entered into
21 A Well, the way he explained it to me is over the years 21 a stipulation agreement with the Burches, they couldn't afford
22 he would maintain the trimming of his mangroves for his water 22 to pay a company, so Bob came into town and sat on the
23 view, his water access, his road down to the point. And his 23 bulldozer, the heavy equipment, and did most of that work
24 horses -- obviously, he had horse farms since the 1940s. Every 24 initially, for months.
25 time there was erosion on the property as a result of heavy 25 Q Do you have Bob's contact information?
Page 308 Page 310

1 rains and hurricanes, he would restore it. 1 A Let me see. (Witness checks cell phone.)
2 Q Did he discuss with you if he ever put any fill on his 2 I don't, but April does.
3 property from the year 2000 onward? 3 Q Okay. Did you ever actually observe, at any time,
4 A Not specifically that he put fill on his property from 4 Mr. Burch doing any of the maintenance work to his own property
5 the year 2000 onward. 5 before he passed?
6 Q Did he ever make any mention to you of him arranging 6 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
7 for any part of his property to be filled after the year 2000? 7 BY MR. ANGELL:
8 A I had no conversation with him about that specifically, 8 Q Let me rephrase that.
9 no. 9 Did you ever observe Mr. Burch doing any mangrove
10 Q Did you ever participate with Mr. Burch in the 10 maintenance to his property?
11 maintenance of his property? 11 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
12 A I sent some of my workers over. I remember one 12 THE WITNESS: I don't think so. I mean, when I
13 incident where the top corner of his barn needed some repair 13 first got down here, I did see him do some work, some tree
14 work, so I sent them over for that. And the people -- I used to 14 work, but back then I wouldn't have known whether it was
15 ride my lawnmower -- if I'd cut the grass myself, when I first 15 mangroves or not.
16 moved down here, I would cut their grass for them. And that's 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 continued since he died in April; either myself or whoever is 17 Q Other than Bob doing the bulldozing work, and some of
18 cutting my lawn goes over and cuts their lawn for them. So, 18 the restoration work on the Burch property, did you ever see Bob
19 yes, we continue to help them. 19 do maintenance work on the Burch property, as far as mangroves
20 Q How about with mangrove maintenance, did you ever 20 are concerned?
21 participate with Mr. Burch in mangrove maintenance? 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
22 A I have never touched a mangrove on their property in 22 THE WITNESS: I believe he did. I'm not sure. I
23 terms of trimming. I may have bumped into one, but not 23 never actually saw him do it.
24 trimming. 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 Q How about any erosion issues, have you ever helped Mr. 25 Q This letter to the editor, which is Exhibit 22, that
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1 letter, was it written by you before or after DERM's enforcement 1 A He was the son of my neighbor when I bought the
2 action against you had begun? 2 property, so I met him on the property. And he used to spend a
3 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and to the 3 great deal of time -- before I owned the property it was the
4 relevance. 4 Walberg's property, and he spent a great deal of time when he
5 THE WITNESS: Well, it's 2011. It's April of 2011. 5 was growing up there on the Walberg's property.
6 I believe it was actually not only after the citation, but 6 Q And, actually, at the last deposition, the first date
7 actually after there was kind of a town hall meeting hosted 7 we took your deposition I asked you a bunch of questions about
8 by Commissioner Bell in the Redlands or in Homestead. 8 Mr. Kunde and his relationship to your property. I only have a
9 BY MR. ANGELL: 9 few small follow-up questions, so I don't have to rehash
10 Q We talked about that last time. 10 everything I asked you before.
11 A Yeah. 11 At one point in time, Mr. Kunde's son, Clifford Kunde's
12 Q It's almost -- 12 son, lived on the Kunde property.
13 A You don't want to talk about that anymore? 13 Did you ever meet him?
14 Q I don't have anymore questions about it. 14 A Say that again.
15 I'm going to try and find some small areas to go into 15 Q Clifford Kunde had a son who lived on the Kunde
16 before we go onto something else, because we have about 10 16 property in 2010, roughly.
17 minutes before we can break. 17 A Oh, yeah.
18 A I mean, we can go up until I get the call. It could be 18 Q Did you meet him?
19 1:00, or whenever. 19 A Yes.
20 Q I think I actually have to take care of something, 20 Q Did he ever do any mangrove maintenance work on your
21 so... 21 property for you?
22 A All right. 22 A I don't think he ever stepped foot on my property.
23 Q Let me ask you about Eugene Flinn. 23 Q So, he was never on your property?
24 A Okay. 24 A Not that I know of.
25 Q First, I want to preface it by saying that I know Mr. 25 Q Okay. After you took possession of your property in
Page 312 Page 314
1 Flinn was deposed in the federal case. I'm not asking questions 1 the year 2000, did the Kundes, or anybody in their employment
2 about the federal case. That case is still pending in the 2 ever perform any mangrove maintenance or trimming on your
3 vortex of Federal Court somewhere. So, I just want to ask you 3 property?
4 about Mr. Flinn in relation to this case. 4 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
5 A Uh-huh (affirmative expression). 5 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't know.
6 Q Do you think Mr. Flinn has any knowledge or information 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 concerning the allegations made against you in this case? 7 Q Did Clifford Kunde ever advise you to get a permit to
8 A The allegations made against me? 8 trim mangroves on your property?
9 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 9 A No.
10 THE WITNESS: In terms of specific... 10 Q Did George Kunde ever advise you to get a permit to
11 BY MR. ANGELL: 11 trim mangroves on your property?
12 Q Sure. Do you believe that Mr. Flinn has any knowledge 12 A No.
13 of the mangroves trimming on your property in violation of the 13 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
14 Mangrove Trimming and Preservation Act? 14 BY MR. ANGELL:
15 A No. 15 Q I don't have any other small areas, so we'll keep
16 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 16 going.
17 THE WITNESS: You mean first-hand knowledge? 17 I know that the Burches keep horses. Have you ever
18 BY MR. ANGELL: 18 kept a horse on the Burch property?
19 Q Yes, any first-hand knowledge. 19 A No.
20 A No. 20 Q What was your relationship -- you've talked to me
21 Q Do you think Mr. Flinn has any first-hand knowledge 21 briefly about your relationship with Elliott Burch.
22 about the allegation that you've illegally filled wetlands on 22 Did you consider Elliott Burch a friend?
23 your property? 23 A He was a neighbor, and I am friendly with all my
24 A No. 24 neighbors.
25 Q Clifford Kunde, how did you first meet him? 25 Q How often would you see Elliot Burch while he was
24 (Pages 311 - 314)

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1 alive? 1 mangroves on your property?
2 A Before he was wheelchair bound, probably...I don't 2 A I don't know.
3 know...I'd say maybe 30 times. 3 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
4 Q 30 times total? 4 BY MR. ANGELL:
5 A Yeah. 5 Q And since the year 2000 did April Burch ever remove any
6 Q Since 2000? 6 mangroves from your property?
7 A Yeah. 7 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
8 Q How about April Burch, do you consider her a friend? 8 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
9 A Yeah. 9 BY MR. ANGELL:
10 Q How often do you see April Burch? 10 Q Mr. Burch gave a deposition in the Burch case.
11 A I see her probably once every two or three weeks. 11 Have you ever read that deposition?
12 Q When did you first meet April Burch? 12 A No.
13 A I don't recall. I mean, I don't recall actually. 13 Q Were you ever provided with a summary of that
14 Q Did she reside on the Burch property the entire time 14 deposition?
15 that you owned your property? 15 A I might have been given a summary or seen some
16 A No. 16 excerpts, but...
17 Q Do you know what year she resided on the Burch 17 Q Did you ever discuss his deposition with Mr. Burch?
18 property? 18 MR. LEARY: I'm going to object to the form and
19 A You'd have to ask her. I mean, if you're talking about 19 direct him not to answer that, because the answer could be
20 for legal residency, I don't know. 20 privileged information.
21 Q Do you know if she was living on the Burch property 21 MR. ANGELL: Conversations with Mr. Burch?
22 when you purchased your property? 22 MR. LEARY: You said about Mr. Burch's --
23 A No, I believe -- as it says in here, that Mr. Elliot 23 MR. ANGELL: I'll rephrase it.
24 Burch was living there alone. 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 Q When did you first meet Elliot Burch? 25 Q I'm sorry. If I said that all you have to do is say
Page 316 Page 318

1 A It was either right after I bought the property, or 1 and I'll rephrase it.
2 when I was looking at it. I don't recall. So, probably around 2 Did you ever have any conversations with Mr. Burch
3 2000/2001. 3 about his deposition?
4 Q Since the year 2000 did Elliott Burch ever trim any 4 A No.
5 mangroves on your property? 5 Q Did you ever have any conversations with April Burch
6 A I don't know. 6 about Mr. Burch's deposition?
7 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 7 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
8 BY MR. ANGELL: 8 THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
9 Q Since the year 2000 did Elliot Burch ever alter any 9 BY MR. ANGELL:
10 mangroves on your property? 10 Q Mr. Burch testified in his deposition that you assisted
11 A I don't know. 11 him with writing a series of letters to DERM.
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 12 Do you recall that?
13 BY MR. ANGELL: 13 A Yes.
14 Q Since the year 2000 did Elliott Burch ever remove any 14 Q Do you recall assisting with him with letters?
15 mangroves from your property? 15 A Yeah.
16 A I don't know. 16 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
17 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 17 Exhibit No. 23 for identification to the deposition.)
19 Q Since the year 2000 did April Burch ever trim any 19 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked as County
20 mangroves on your property? 20 Exhibit 23.
21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 21 A Okay.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 22 Q There's three letters contained in County Exhibit 23.
23 23 A Okay.
24 BY MR. ANGELL: 24 Q Is that the total number of letters that you assisted
25 Q Since the year 2000 did April Burch ever alter any 25 Mr. Burch in authoring?
25 (Pages 315 - 318)

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1 A I believe so. They didn't have a computer, so they're 1 Mr. Leary?
2 definitely printed out from my computer. 2 MR. LEARY: Object to relevance, and object to the
3 Q What was the level of participation you had in the 3 form.
4 drafting of these letters? 4 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. I made the
5 A I don't recall. 5 introduction initially.
6 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 BY MR. ANGELL: 7 Q Were you aware of Mr. Shubin's intent to withdraw from
8 Q Did you write them yourself? 8 the case before he withdrew?
9 A Well, I told you they didn't have a computer, so I did 9 A Well...
10 input the text. 10 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
11 Q So, was it dictated to you by Mr. Burch? 11 THE WITNESS: It depends when. I mean, he probably
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 12 mentioned it to me when he was doing it, but how far before,
13 THE WITNESS: I don't recall actually how much or 13 I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't recall that.
14 in what form the communication was in. 14 BY MR. ANGELL:
15 BY MR. ANGELL: 15 Q Were you ever present for any communications by the
16 Q Were any of these letters authored solely by you 16 Burches with their lawyer?
17 without input from Mr. Burch? 17 A With which lawyer?
18 A I don't believe so. 18 Q Any of them.
19 Q How did you become involved in drafting these letters 19 A No.
20 on behalf of the Burches? 20 Q Did you assist the Burches, in any way, in obtaining
21 A As I said, because they didn't have a computer. 21 the services of an environmental consultant to work their
22 Q So, did they ask you to help them? 22 property?
23 A Yeah. 23 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance of any
24 Q And was it April Burch that asked you, or was it Elliot 24 questions regarding the Burches' retention of attorneys,
25 Burch? 25 professionals, anything regarding an enforcement action
Page 320 Page 322

1 A I don't recall. 1 which has been initiated against them by the County.
2 Q Did you assist the Burches, in any way, in obtaining 2 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question?
3 their legal representation in the county case against them? 3 BY MR. ANGELL:
4 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and to relevance. 4 Q Sure. Did you assist the Burches, in any way, to
5 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I asked John Shubin if he 5 obtain the services of an environmental consultant?
6 wanted to represent them, because they didn't have any money 6 A No.
7 and they needed an attorney. 7 Q Do you know who their environmental consultant was?
8 BY MR. ANGELL: 8 A Yes. Ed Swakon, I think.
9 Q Eventually Mr. Shubin left the case, correct, the Burch 9 Q Did you participate, in any way, in the payment for Ed
10 case? 10 Swakon for his services in the Burch property?
11 A He's not on the case now, to the best of my knowledge. 11 A No.
12 Q Well, eventually there came a point in time where Mr. 12 Q Did you participate, in any way, in the payment of Mr.
13 Leary also became involved in the Burch case, is that right? 13 Leary for his services on the Burch case?
14 A Yes. 14 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance and to the
15 Q Were you aware of that when it happened? 15 form.
16 A Obviously I was, yes. 16 THE WITNESS: Mr. Leary was not paid by me for work
17 Q Did you assist the Burches in retaining Mr. Leary's 17 done on the Burch case.
18 services? 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and to relevance. 19 Q Did he work pro bono on the Burch case, if you know?
20 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure what you mean by assist. 20 A You'd have to ask him. I don't know. He doesn't share
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 information on cases other than my own with me, including the
22 Q Did you suggest to them that they use Mr. Leary? 22 Burch case.
23 A They met Jeff before they decided to use him. It was 23 Q Did your organization, Miami-Dade County Citizens for
24 their decision, not mine. 24 Property Rights, represent Ms. Burch?
25 Q I understand, but did you suggest that they use 25 A I don't know. You'd have to ask Jeff. I have not seen
26 (Pages 319 - 322)

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1 their agreement. I have no idea what it involves. 1 Q Who was that?
2 Q Did you ever see their agreement with Ed Swakon? 2 A The Araizas.
3 A No. 3 Q James Araiza?
4 Q Have you ever discussed the Burch property with Ed 4 A Yeah.
5 Swakon? 5 Q A-R-A-I-Z-A.
6 A I bumped into him while he was at the property doing 6 THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you.
7 some work there, and I chatted with him probably once or twice. 7 BY MR. ANGELL:
8 Q Were you aware that Mr. Swakon submitted an 8 Q Do you know if April Burch is still trying to sell her
9 environmental assessment report for the Burch property? 9 property?
10 A I have no idea of the details of any of the work done 10 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance.
11 over there. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
12 Q Have you ever seen that report? 12 BY MR. ANGELL:
13 A No. 13 Q Do you have any ownership interest in the Burch
14 Q Did you ever discuss with Elliott Burch his testimony 14 property?
15 before he gave his deposition? 15 A No.
16 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 16 Q At this time, it is almost -- it's 10 to 1, so I'm
17 THE WITNESS: No. Because I didn't see his 17 going to break anyway because I have to get the other exhibit,
18 depositions I have no way of knowing the answer to that 18 and I have to return a call.
19 question. 19 A Okay.
20 BY MR. ANGELL: 20 Q So, we will break for 30 minutes. If you're not done
21 Q Before Mr. Burch gave his depositions, were you aware 21 with your matter by the time we get back, we'll wait.
22 that he was going to go give a deposition? 22 A Well, I would just say continue, and then when the call
23 A He did not tell me that. 23 comes in, that's when I would have to take a break, because
24 Q How about April Burch, were you aware that April Burch 24 basically it's a project that's going on, and they have to call
25 was going to go give a deposition in the Burch case before she 25 in to me at some point.
Page 324 Page 326
1 gave a deposition? 1 Q I understand. I have to tend to something else, so
2 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 2 it's going to take me probably 15 to 20 minutes anyway.
3 THE WITNESS: I was aware, but I didn't know when, 3 A Okay.
4 and we didn't discuss it. She had mentioned that she was 4 Q I have to respond, so I need to take 15 or 20 minutes.
5 being deposed, but that was the extent of the conversation. 5 A So, you're doing that now?
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 Q Yeah, I'd prefer to do it now.
7 Q Did you discuss -- that was the extent of the 7 A Okay.
8 conversation? 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I think we should go off the
9 A Yes. 9 record.
10 Q So, did you discuss any possible questions or 10 MR. ANGELL: Sure.
11 testimony? 11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. The time is 12:51. We're
12 A No. 12 going off the record.
13 Q She gave a deposition in your case as well. 13 (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken from 12:51
14 Were you aware of that -- I'll rephrase that. 14 until 1:34 p.m.)
15 I deposed her in this matter. Are you aware of that? 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's 13:34. We're back on the
16 A Okay. I am now. 16 record.
17 Q So, you were not aware before the deposition that she 17 BY MR. ANGELL:
18 was deposed? 18 Q Okay. We're back from the lunch break.
19 A It's possible that it was mentioned to me, but to be 19 Earlier before we took the break I was asking about
20 honest with you, I just don't recall. 20 Exhibit 21. You said you could not orient yourself, based on
21 Q Have you ever had discussions with the Burches about 21 just that one photo, so I have gathered a series of other
22 purchasing their property? 22 photographs to help us.
23 A No. I mean, not for me purchasing the property. There 23 I've renumbered 21 to be 21a. So, this is 21a that I
24 was somebody else I knew that was interested in the property, 24 was asking about earlier that shows the boundary of your
25 and I made the introduction. 25 property and the Burch property, or a portion of the boundary.
27 (Pages 323 - 326)

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1 I would say that that area is also depicted in County Exhibit 1 1 A I don't know.
2 as Area E? 2 Q You don't know?
3 A Okay. 3 A How would I know?
4 Q Does that help you orient 21? 4 Q Well, you live on the property, correct?
5 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 5 A Yeah, but it looks completely different.
6 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 6 Q Okay. Is it gone --
7 BY MR. ANGELL: 7 A Well --
8 Q Now, I also show you 21b, what I'm now calling 21b, 8 Q -- the band of vegetation?
9 which is an area that I drew a red mark on to show you which 9 A Well, the paddock is gone, so I have no reference point
10 section of vegetation we are referring to. 10 to know whether the vegetation is there or not.
11 A Okay. 11 Q So, let's refer to Exhibit --
12 Q Using 21b and Exhibit A, do you see where it is that 12 A Are we comparing exhibits?
13 we're talking about? 13 Q We had stated that you were able to orient yourself on
14 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 14 to Exhibit 21a.
15 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 15 A So, this and this look the same.
16 BY MR. ANGELL: 16 Q Correct.
17 Q I will also show you what has been marked as Exhibit 17 A Right?
18 21c. I'm going to refer to one photo on there. I don't have a 18 Q So, we'll go back to Exhibit 1.
19 copy. 19 In Exhibit 1, what is currently in the area marked as E
20 MR. LEARY: No, that's okay. I just wanted to see 20 in Exhibit 1?
21 what it was. 21 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I'd have to go on the
23 Q Referring to, if we can, the bottom photograph of 21c, 23 property and look.
24 this part (indicating). For the record, there's four pictures 24 Do you have a picture of the current property?
25 depicted in 21c. 25 BY MR. ANGELL:
Page 328 Page 330
1 A You're talking about this one (indicating)? 1 Q I do. We can take a break and I can get that, but I
2 Q Yes. I'm referring to the bottom right photograph in 2 want to be clear.
3 21c. 3 You're telling me that, based on Exhibit 1, and
4 A All right. 4 comparing Exhibit 1 to the Exhibits in 21 --
5 Q Does that help orient you with 21a? 5 A One?
6 A Yes. 6 Q In 21.
7 Q I'll also show you 21d. 7 A 21.
8 A Okay. 8 Q And 21b, you cannot tell where --
9 Q Which contains one photograph. 9 A They look the same, right? Don't they?
10 Does D help you orient 21? 10 MR. LEARY: Object. No, you can't.
11 MR. LEARY: Is that the same? 11 THE WITNESS: I mean, are you saying that there's a
12 MR. ANGELL: Bottom corner has the date. 12 difference between these two?
13 MR. LEARY: What is it? 13 BY MR. ANGELL:
14 MR. ANGELL: It's in '02. 14 Q Do you know -- without seeing a picture of the property
15 MR. LEARY: No, no, I know. 15 as it currently existed today, do you know if this band of
16 MR. ANGELL: '02. 16 vegetation is still here?
17 MR. LEARY: That's 2002? 17 A You're talking about this section here (indicating) --
18 MR. ANGELL: Yeah. 18 Q Yes.
19 MR. LEARY: Okay. 19 A -- that has the grayish-blue colored trees in it?
20 BY MR. ANGELL: 20 Q I'm talking about the section marked with the red pen.
21 Q So, referring now to that band of vegetation that is 21 A The part that you marked with a red pen is the
22 sort of outlined by the red pen in 21b -- 22 section -- the one to the left of it that's not marked are the
23 A Okay. 23 green trees. The one that you marked is where the bluish gray
24 Q -- in reference to all the other exhibits in 21, is 24 trees start.
25 that section of vegetation still present today? 25 Q Okay. We'll take a break.
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1 A You're asking me if just the ones inside, where the red 1 is that there's a lot of cleared land here in 21e, and 21f
2 lines are, are gone? 2 has more grown vegetation.
3 Q Yes. 3 BY MR. ANGELL:
4 A I don't know. 4 Q What we're focusing on, again, is that area on the
5 Q We'll take a break. 5 southern boundary that is now depicted in a number of
6 A I need a picture. 6 photographs numbered as 21.
7 Q I will get a photo for to you help orient you as to how 7 A All right. But what are you asking me to compare? E
8 the property currently exists. 8 and F?
9 A The problem with the current picture today is that 9 Q Sorry. I lost my mike.
10 there is no circular paddock there. 10 A Yeah, there's palm trees here on 21f near the southern
11 Q We'll talk about it when we get back from the break. 11 property line on the east side, and there's a palm tree there,
12 A Okay. 12 also. I mean, I can't see from this black and white area.
13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 13:39. We are off the 13 Q You're not saying that this here --
14 record. 14 A I can't tell.
15 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken from 1:39 p.m. 15 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of the question.
16 until back on 1:44 p.m.) 16 BY MR. ANGELL:
17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Time is 13:44. We are back on 17 Q -- in 21e is palm trees, correct?
18 record. 18 A I can't tell the difference from an aerial view like
19 BY MR. ANGELL: 19 that, between these.
20 Q Okay. I'm going to show you what has been marked for 20 Q Are palm trees still located in this area as shown in
21 identification as 21f. 21 21f?
22 Do you recognize 21f? 22 A Well, this is -- let me see that one.
23 A Yes. 23 Q Well, I'm asking about this right now.
24 Q And in 21f is there a section of the property that has 24 In this area of 21f, are there still palm trees as
25 palm trees on the border between your property and the Burch 25 depicted --
Page 332 Page 334
1 property? 1 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
2 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 2 BY MR. ANGELL:
3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 Q -- on the boundary between your property and the Burch
4 BY MR. ANGELL: 4 property?
5 Q I'm going to show you what is 21e, is that same section 5 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
6 of the border between your property and the Burch property shown 6 THE WITNESS: From the aerial view it looks like
7 in 21e? 7 palm trees here.
8 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 8 BY MR. ANGELL:
9 THE WITNESS: What are you asking me to compare? 9 Q Before these palm trees were put in, in 21f, what kind
10 I'm not clear. 10 of vegetation existed there?
11 BY MR. ANGELL: 11 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question.
12 Q Do you see that same boundary? 12 THE WITNESS: I'm assuming that that's this general
13 A Yes, it's a picture of the same areas. 13 area here (indicating) --
14 Q Okay. What is depicted in 21e where there are palm 14 BY MR. ANGELL:
15 trees? 15 Q That would be correct.
16 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 16 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
17 THE WITNESS: Well, what you can see in 21e -- what 17 THE WITNESS: -- on 21B, which the red area that
18 is this? 21f? 18 you have highlighted doesn't look like there were palm
19 BY MR. ANGELL: 19 trees, but they're bluish-gray colored trees, distinct from
20 Q F. 20 the green trees to the left of them, which I don't know what
21 A This is different than 21f. 21 they are from this aerial view.
22 Q Well, a lot of the property is different, but the 22 BY MR. ANGELL:
23 southern boundary is different, correct? 23 Q Okay. Those trees that you have identified --
24 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 24 A Yes.
25 THE WITNESS: Well, the big difference you can see 25 Q -- as bluish gray, that you can't identify what they
29 (Pages 331 - 334)

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Page 335 Page 337
1 are, when were they removed from that portion of the southern 1 A Well, kind of the southeastern quadrant on the south
2 boundary? 2 side of my driveway, as I said, I used to mow the lawn myself
3 A I don't know. 3 there. And it was so bumpy in the area that I had it leveled
4 Q What happened to them? 4 out and put sod on top.
5 A Well, it looks like the Burch property had a lot of 5 Q When you say you had it leveled out, did you have
6 clearing and development done on it, so it looks like they were 6 anything else placed there besides sod?
7 removed somehow. 7 A Well, there was top soil.
8 Q Do you believe that the Burches removed that band of 8 Q What did the top soil consist of when you say top soil?
9 trees depicted in 21b? 9 Is it just dirt or soil?
10 A Looks that way, looks like that whole area was -- I 10 A I don't know. I don't know.
11 don't know whether it was entirely on the Burch side. I mean, I 11 Q Any of the white fill that we see throughout other
12 don't know where the property line is on this picture, on 21b, 12 photographs?
13 so I don't know whether that vegetation was on my property, 13 A I wasn't --
14 their property, or what part of it was. 14 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question.
15 Q Did you -- 15 BY MR. ANGELL:
16 A But if I couldn't tell, I'm sure that Bob, who was 16 Q I'm sorry?
17 clearing this, or whoever was clearing it on the Burch side, 17 A I wasn't the one that leveled it off.
18 wouldn't have known either. 18 Q Before the EQCB, on the very first hearing that you
19 Q Well, you're not talking about the restoration work, 19 testified at, you testified that you placed sod on the southern
20 correct? Because that restoration was done when Bob did 20 boundary.
21 restoration? 21 A Yes.
22 A Well, I'm telling you that in the 2009 picture all the 22 Q Do you recall testifying as to that?
23 vegetation in this area is gone. 23 A Right, that's what I just said, again.
24 Q Correct. And you don't know when it was removed, is 24 Q And you also testified at the EQCB that the southern
25 that right. 25 boundary of vegetation that is now gone, as depicted in 21b, had
Page 336 Page 338

1 A Sorry? 1 contained mangroves.
2 Q Is it your testimony that you don't know when that band 2 Do you remember testifying to that?
3 of vegetation was removed? 3 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of the question.
4 A I don't know. I'm sure you're going to tell me. 4 The WITNESS: Are you talking about on my side or
5 Q Is it your testimony that you don't know who removed 5 the Burch side?
6 that band of vegetation? 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 A I'm guessing it's whoever did the work to remove the 7 Q I'm talking about that was your testimony before the
8 vegetation on the Burch property. 8 EQCB. You were asked --
9 Q Do you know why that band of vegetation was removed? 9 A On my side, or the Burch side? That wasn't specified.
10 A Why it was removed? I certainly would have no reason 10 Q It wasn't specified whether that contained mangroves.
11 to remove it. 11 Do you remember testifying to that?
12 Q Do you know how long after its removal your palm trees 12 A Well, I think they were asking about a picture, not the
13 were put in that location? 13 aerial like this is, but a land view from the Burch property
14 A I don't, but obviously I wanted trees there to block 14 that shows some mangroves on it, that I confirmed, that I agreed
15 the view of the office building that I had to look at. 15 were mangroves.
16 Q But that band of vegetation, on the southern boundary 16 Q As you sit here today, do you know if this area on your
17 that we're talking about in 21b, that's marked with the red pen, 17 side of the property had mangroves?
18 that band of vegetation was there when you purchased your 18 A I don't know where the property line is.
19 property, correct? 19 Q The area that faces your side of the property, sir, did
20 A I had no reason to remove it. 20 you know if that contained mangroves?
21 Q How many palm trees did you plant in that area? 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
22 A I'd have to go on the property and count. I don't 22 THE WITNESS: In this section highlighted in the
23 know. 23 red, I don't know.
24 Q When you had palm trees placed in that area, did you 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 also have sod placed in that area? 25 Q And before the EQCB, as you testified here today, you
30 (Pages 335 - 338)

800-726-7007 305-376-8800
Page 339 Page 341
1 testified that you placed palm trees in that area. 1 depicted in 21b outlined in red, were you aware, at the time
2 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 2 that it was removed, that it was being removed?
4 Q Do you recall giving that testimony? 4 THE WITNESS: I didn't remove it, so how would I
5 MR. LEARY: What area? 5 know?
6 THE WITNESS: Not exactly. 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 BY MR. ANGELL: 7 Q When did you discover that the vegetation depicted in
8 Q The area depicted in 21b, which is the topic of our 8 21b, and outlined in red, was removed from that area?
9 conversation. 9 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
10 MR. LEARY: That was not the topic of conversation. 10 THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
12 Q Do you recall testifying that you placed palm trees on 12 Q How soon after the vegetation depicted in 21b, as
13 that area of the southern boundary? 13 outlined in red, how soon after the removal of that vegetation
14 A I did place palm trees in the area, yes. 14 did you plant palm trees in that area?
15 Q You also testified that there was -- well, actually, 15 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
16 let me rephrase that. 16 THE WITNESS: How soon after what?
17 Were you aware of the placement of sod in that area 17 BY MR. ANGELL:
18 where you planted the palm trees at the time that the sod was 18 Q How soon after the removal of the vegetation in 21b --
19 being placed, or did you learn about it after? 19 A I just got --
20 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question. 20 Q I'm not done with my question.
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 How soon after the removal of the vegetation in 21b, as
22 Q I'll rephrase it. 22 outlined in red, was it before you planted palm trees in that
23 Did you direct sod to be placed in that area? 23 area?
24 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 24 A I just got through telling you I don't know exactly
25 THE WITNESS: Which area? 25 when they were removed, so I can't answer that question.
Page 340 Page 342
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 Q On April 10th of 2013 you had Ricisak served with a
2 Q The area where you planted the palm trees. 2 civil lawsuit, and that was a day before the EQCB hearing.
3 A You're talking about before or after the palm trees 3 Why did you serve him then?
4 were planted? 4 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question,
5 Q After you planted the palm trees in the southern 5 and object to the relevance. And, again, a standing
6 boundary of your property, did you direct sod to be placed 6 objection to anything relating to a civil action filed
7 around the palm trees? 7 against Mr. Ricisak.
8 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question. 8 BY MR. ANGELL:
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. When we were out there last 9 Q Why did you have him served the day before the EQCB?
10 time I showed you the whole area up to what I thought was 10 A I'd like the question certified.
11 the property line where the sod was put down, and that I had 11 MR. LEARY: It's also potentially privileged
12 put it there, or had it put there. 12 communication between Mr. DuBois and his counsel, at the
13 BY MR. ANGELL: 13 time, and I would direct him not to answer that question.
14 Q Were you aware of the removal of the vegetation 14 MR. ANGELL: He is certifying it.
15 depicted in 21b outlined in red at the time that it happened? 15 MR. LEARY: If that's what you want to call it.
16 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 16 MR. ANGELL: That's what it would be if you direct
17 THE WITNESS: As you well know, from when you were 17 him not answer the question.
18 at the site visit with the surveyors, I was given clearly 18 MR. LEARY: That's fine. Certify it.
19 wrong information, by a substantial amount, as to where the 19 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
20 property line is. So, I can't answer that question with 20 Exhibit 24 for identification to the deposition.)
21 accuracy as to whether it was on my property, whether it was 21 BY MR. ANGELL:
22 Burch vegetation or my vegetation that you're referring to. 22 Q I'm showing you what is Exhibit 24. It's a composite
23 23 exhibit. We're going to go page by page.
24 BY MR. ANGELL: 24 I'll go one page at a time, starting with the first
25 Q Regardless of whose vegetation it was, the area 25 page of the exhibit.
31 (Pages 339 - 342)

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Page 343 Page 345
1 MR. LEARY: There's only two? 1 photograph dated 09/29/08.
2 MR. ANGELL: Yes, there's only two. 2 Do you see a mound of fill just past your palm trees in
3 BY MR. ANGELL: 3 the photograph on the Burch property?
4 Q Starting with the first page of -- actually, we can do 4 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
5 both at the same time. 5 THE WITNESS: I see a large area that looks like
6 Go ahead and look at Exhibit 24, both pages, please. 6 it's been disturbed, yeah.
7 A (Witness complies.) 7 BY MR. ANGELL:
8 MR. LEARY: There's two dates on this second page. 8 Q What do you believe that area to consist of?
9 Why is that? 9 A It looks like somebody took a dozer and cleared off the
10 MR. ANGELL: I'm sorry. Are you asking something? 10 vegetation.
11 MR. LEARY: Yeah, why are there two dates on the 11 Q The whitish area depicted in that photograph, did it
12 second page? 12 appear to be mounds to you?
13 MR. ANGELL: Well, I'm sure you can make inquiry of 13 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
14 whoever created this document when you take their 14 THE WITNESS: Hard to tell from this.
15 deposition. 15 BY MR. ANGELL:
16 MR. LEARY: I guess we'll have to depose them 16 Q Does it appear to be higher than the other areas of the
17 again. 17 property shown just below?
18 THE WITNESS: It's on my first page, actually. 18 A I can't tell from this picture.
19 BY MR. ANGELL: 19 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of the question.
20 Q So, referring to -- 20 BY MR. ANGELL:
21 A Mine is out of order, or his is out of order. 21 Q Can you tell if those are fill or not, the mounds?
22 Q Doesn't matter. We will refer to the one with the date 22 A They have the color of fill, but then, again, if you
23 of 01/30/06 and 12/31/05. 23 scrape vegetation off of the ground it will probably give you
24 Do you see that? 24 the same color pretty much everywhere.
25 A Uh-huh (affirmative expression). 25 Q Do you recall ever seeing that white area on the Burch
Page 344 Page 346
1 Q There is a horse paddock at the top. 1 property?
2 Do you see that? 2 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
3 A Correct. 3 THE WITNESS: Do I recall seeing it?
4 Q Just to the right of the horse paddock there is a mound 4 BY MR. ANGELL:
5 of fill. 5 Q Yeah, in 2008, when you were living in the house, do
6 Do you see that? 6 you recall seeing?
7 MR. LEARY: Objection to form. 7 A I don't recall.
8 THE WITNESS: No. 8 Q Do you know how that area got to look like it does --
10 Q There is a white-colored area. 10 BY MR. ANGELL:
11 Do you see that? 11 Q -- as depicted in the second page of the exhibit?
12 MR. LEARY: Object to the form. 12 A You would have to ask the Burches.
13 THE WITNESS: You mean larger than the paddock, 13 Q So, you don't know?
14 itself? 14 A I don't know.
15 BY MR. ANGELL: 15 Q Did you ever witness anyone dumping fill in that area?
16 Q Correct. 16 A I don't recall.
17 A Yeah. 17 Q You don't recall, or you never saw anyone?
18 Q Do you know what that area is? 18 A I don't recall.
19 A I have no idea. 19 Q Have you ever seen anyone dump any fill on the Burch
20 Q Do you know if that area is fill? 20 property?
21 A I don't. 21 A I do not recall.
22 Q Do you know how that area came to look like it does in 22 Q Do you know why that area was filled?
23 the picture? 23 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
24 A No idea. 24 THE WITNESS: You'd have to ask the Burches. How
25 Q I want to refer you to the second page, which is a 25 would I know?
32 (Pages 343 - 346)

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Page 347 Page 349
1 BY MR. ANGELL: 1 Ms. Clingerman were on the Burch property, you also went onto
2 Q Well, you sort of testified that you had numerous 2 the property.
3 conversations with Mr. Burch while he was alive, so that's why I 3 A Okay. Yeah, I mean, these are not particularly,
4 am asking you. 4 memorable items for me.
5 Do you know why that area was filled in the Burch 5 Q Do you remember the time when you went on with Swakon,
6 property? 6 Clingerman and Ricisak on the Burch property?
7 A No. You would have to ask them. I mean, other than 7 A I've been on the property, around that property line,
8 what I said before, which was generically that Mr. Burch told me 8 on various occasions over the years.
9 that every time they have erosion from hurricanes they'd restore 9 Q Do you remember why, in 2013...when Swakon, Clingerman
10 it to its historical condition so that the horses can run 10 and Ricisak were on the Burch property discussing the
11 without sinking. 11 enforcement...you went onto the property?
12 Q That photo is from 2008, correct? 12 MR. LEARY: Objection to form and to relevance.
13 A According to the note on it. Is there a question? 13 THE WITNESS: Not off the top of my head, no.
14 Q Did you ever discuss the filling of that area of the 14 BY MR. ANGELL:
15 property with April Burch? 15 Q Do you recall why you went onto the property on March
16 A I don't recall having discussed it with her. 16 11th, 2016 --
17 Q I know I touched briefly upon Swakon's report that was 17 MR. LEARY: Object to form.
18 done for the Burch property. You said you've never seen it. 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 Other than with your lawyer, have you ever discussed 19 Q -- when Mr. Ricisak and Ms. Clingerman were on the
20 the findings in Swakon's report with anyone? Mr. Schael or 20 Burch property?
21 anyone? 21 MR. LEARY: Object to the form and to relevance.
22 MR. LEARY: Objection to relevance, object to form. 22 THE WITNESS: What date?
23 THE WITNESS: I don't recall ever discussing it 23 BY MR. ANGELL:
24 with anybody, including my attorney. 24 Q March 11, 2016.
25 BY MR. ANGELL: 25 A This year?
Page 348 Page 350

1 Q When the Burch property was being remediated and fill 1 Q Yes, sir.
2 was being removed from the area, did you ever ask for any of 2 A On the property, not exactly.
3 that fill to be given to you for use on your property? 3 Q On those days that you went on the property while the
4 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance and to form. 4 DERM personnel were present, did the Burches invite you onto the
5 THE WITNESS: No. 5 property?
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 A I don't know.
7 Q On October 7, of 2013, while DERM representatives were 7 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to
8 on the property, on the Burch property with Ed Swakon, you came 8 relevance.
9 over onto the Burch property. 9 BY MR. ANGELL:
10 Do you recall that? 10 Q Do you know why it was, or what the catalyst was for
11 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 11 you to go onto the property?
12 THE WITNESS: What was the date? 12 A I don't recall.
13 BY MR. ANGELL: 13 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
14 Q It was October 7 of 2013. 14 Exhibit No. 25 for identification to the deposition.)
15 A Is that the time I took a picture? 15 BY MR. ANGELL:
16 Q You'd have to tell me. 16 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for
17 A I recall being there once with Mr. Ricisak and taking a 17 identification as Composite Exhibit 25. There you go, sir. You
18 photograph of something. 18 should have two pages, correct?
19 Q That would have been the time that Mr. Ricisak -- well, 19 The first page is a map of a specific purpose survey.
20 let me rephrase this. 20 The second page is a close-up of a portion of that survey?
21 On the October 7th, 2013 date Ms. Clingerman and Mr. 21 A Okay.
22 Ricisak were present. 22 Q Have you ever seen this survey before?
23 A Okay. 23 A I can't even read the writing with my glasses as to who
24 Q However, also on...because I don't want to confuse 24 did the survey, it's so small.
25 you...also, on March 11, 2016, when Mr. Ricisak and 25 Q This was a survey that was done as part of the Burch
33 (Pages 347 - 350)

800-726-7007 305-376-8800
Page 351 Page 353
1 settlement agreement. It was done by Juan Suarez of Suarez 1 to be moved?
2 Surveying and Mapping. 2 A Yes. Some of the palm trees in here were those that
3 A Okay. 3 were removed.
4 Q Did you ever see the survey that was done by him? 4 Q Are you able to tell at all which ones? I mean, I know
5 A Are you talking about this (indicating)? 5 that's not the best picture.
6 Q Yeah. 6 A I know that one was moved (indicating).
7 A No. 7 Q I'm sorry. Let me see what you're pointing to.
8 Q As a result of survey that was done by Juan Suarez, 8 A This one would have had to have been moved
9 were the palm trees that you had planted, that we just talked 9 (indicating).
10 about on the southern boundary, did any of those palm trees have 10 Q On the first page of the exhibit, the second palm tree
11 to be moved? 11 toward the center?
12 A I had to move, I think it was two or three palm trees 12 A Yes, the one most on the left.
13 that were on the wrong side of the property line, that they had 13 Q Okay.
14 indicated, or that DERM basically told the Burches they had to 14 A Yeah. And I think this one, where the guy's foot is, I
15 be moved in order for her to proceed with her agreement. 15 think we just trimmed off the overhanging roots and straightened
16 Q Did you move them, or did Ms. Burch have them moved? 16 the line out. And then, I think there's one other one that was
17 A I had them moved. 17 moved, also.
18 Q Did you pay for the trees to be moved, or did Ms. 18 Q Forgive me for a moment, as I have technical difficulty
19 Burch's remediation volunteer to do it? 19 with the mike. There we go. Sorry about that.
20 MR. LEARY: Object to form and to relevance. 20 I'll take that back from you.
21 THE WITNESS: Actually, the people that moved the 21 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
22 trees disliked DERM so much they didn't even charge me for 22 Exhibit No. 27 for identification to the deposition.)
23 it. 23 BY MR. ANGELL:
24 BY MR. ANGELL: 24 Q I'm showing you what has been marked for identification
25 Q Who actually removed the trees? 25 as 27.
Page 352 Page 354

1 A It was -- what's the guy's name? Hold on. Let me see 1 Do you recognize that?
2 if I can find it. He used to have a big landscaping company in 2 A This is my election from 2012.
3 the Redlands. It'll come back to me. Can I get back to you on 3 (Witness reads to himself.)
4 that one? 4 Yes, I do recall this. It was campaign material in the
5 Q If you have it... 5 2012 election.
6 A I don't know. 6 Q Did you have this campaign flyer created?
7 I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in the August depo. You 7 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance of any
8 don't recall? 8 questions regarding campaign materials from 2012.
9 Q I do not recall. 9 THE WITNESS: My campaign did. I didn't, but yes.
10 MR. ANGELL: Do you know who it is? 10 MR. ANGELL: Okay. You're done with your
11 MR. LEARY: No. 11 objection?
12 MR. ANGELL: Instead of making him sit here and 12 MR. LEARY: Yep.
13 search, you can tell me later. 13 MR. ANGELL: I just wanted to make sure she got
14 MR. LEARY: Yeah, I mean, if you'll remind me I'll 14 everything.
15 remind him to get the name. 15 MR. LEARY: Yeah, it's a standing objection for any
16 MR. ANGELL: We'll move on. 16 questions relating to campaign materials from the 2012
17 MR. LEARY: I never even spoke to the guy. 17 election.
18 MR. ANGELL: We are almost finished, so... 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's 19 Q Did you approve Exhibit 27 before it was distributed?
20 Exhibit No. 26 for identification to the deposition.) 20 A Did I approve what?
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 Q Did you approve Exhibit 27, the flyer, before it was
22 Q I'm showing you what has been marked for identification22 distributed?
23 as Exhibit 26. There's two photos in 26. Both were taken on 23 A Before it was printed and sent out?
24 April 11, 2016. 24 Q Yes.
25 Do these pictures show that some of the palm trees had 25 A Yes.
34 (Pages 351 - 354)

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Page 355 Page 357
1 Q And, as you just read, it describes you as the 1 There's a lot of things we did. I'd have to go back
2 environmental ambassador to Palmetto Bay. 2 and take a look.
3 What does that mean? 3 Q Does any of the legislation that you have been a party
4 A Just what it says. 4 to passing concern mangroves?
5 Q I don't know what it means, so I'm asking. 5 A Not that I -- any of the legislation that I was a party
6 A It's one of these statements to educate our voters to 6 to, did you say, to passing?
7 the fact that I work very hard to improve the environment for 7 Q Yes.
8 Palmetto Bay. 8 A Palmetto Bay doesn't have legislative authority to
9 Q So, it's not like an official title in which someone 9 change legislation for mangroves.
10 has deemed you some sort of ambassador, correct? 10 Q They can do urgings for mangroves.
11 A It's not capitalized, so I would assume not. 11 A A what?
12 Q So, what you meant by environmental ambassador, if I 12 Q You can do an urging, correct?
13 understand you correctly, is that you do a lot for the 13 A Urging?
14 environment for Palmetto Bay? 14 Q Have you ever done an urging related to mangroves?
15 A I do a lot of pro-environmental things, yes. 15 A You mean like advocacy? What do you mean urging?
16 Q What pro-environmental things have you done for 16 Q Maybe you don't do them.
17 Palmetto Bay? 17 The Board of County Commissioners for Miami-Dade County
18 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 18 passes ordinances, resolutions, and will sometimes pass an
19 THE WITNESS: I volunteer my time on the Tree 19 urging or resolution. It's a request for --
20 Committee at Palmetto Bay. 20 A Oh, I've never heard of one before.
21 BY MR. ANGELL: 21 Q -- a government entity to do something.
22 Q Which we discussed last time. 22 No? Never heard of an urging?
23 A Yes. 23 A No.
24 Q What else? 24 Q Has any of your legislation had anything to do with the
25 A I'm a very good steward of green space in the Village. 25 protection of wetlands?
Page 356 Page 358

1 I have one of the largest green space properties in the Village. 1 A It all does. I mean, anything related to enhancing the
2 And when I bought the property, the property was -- prior to me 2 environment does.
3 purchasing it, they were attempting to subdivide it into seven 3 Q Give me an example of a specific piece of legislation
4 single-family home lots, and I bought it and kept it as a 4 that you've worked on that concerns the protection of wetlands.
5 single, large green space. 5 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and object to the
6 Q Anything else? 6 relevance. This is getting absurd.
7 A I'm sure -- 7 THE WITNESS: You can certify the question, at this
8 MR. LEARY: Object to form and relevance. 8 point.
9 THE WITNESS: I'm sure there are other things, but 9 BY MR. ANGELL:
10 I can't recall off the top of my head. 10 Q Okay. We talked briefly about, or attempted to talk
11 BY MR. ANGELL: 11 about private investigative firms that you hired, and you
12 Q It also says that you're a public advocate of 12 certified a bunch of those questions.
13 restructuring and new legislation to strengthen Dade County's 13 You have retained 5326 Consultants, Inc., correct?
14 protection of the water supply. 14 A We can certify that question, too.
15 What have you done in that regard? 15 Q Okay. We can certify it, but I'll make you aware that
16 A What have I done? 16 you've already disclosed one of those documents in public
17 Q Yes. 17 records, which means you waive any privilege to that, if a
18 A I'll get back to you on that one. I have to look at 18 privilege actually existed.
19 all the legislation that I passed in Palmetto Bay. 19 A I'm not asking for privilege. I'm asking to certify
20 Q Do you recall any legislation that you passed 20 the question.
21 concerning environmental issues? 21 MR. ANGELL: Are you going to certify that?
22 A Well, certainly we've supported the Million -- was it 22 MR. LEARY: I'm not directing him not to answer.
23 the Million Tree Canopy Initiative? We've supported spending 23 Question. He requested to certify the question.
24 exorbitant amounts of money on beautifying the median strip of24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 US-1 throughout Palmetto Bay. 25 Q That's fine. Do you know who Stacy Blau is...
35 (Pages 355 - 358)

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1 B-L-A-U? 1 until 2:33 p.m.)
2 A You can certify that question, too. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Time is 14:33. We're back on
3 Q Are the services of 5326 Consultant, Inc., still being 3 the record.
4 utilized by you? 4 (Whereupon, document was marked as Plaintiff's
5 A Certify. 5 Exhibit No. 28 for identification to the deposition.)
6 Q What was the scope of their work? 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 A Certify. 7 Q I'm going to show you what has been marked for
8 Q When did their work begin? 8 identification as Exhibit 28. It's a composite.
9 A Certify. 9 Do you recognize Exhibit 28?
10 Q Was what the duration of their work? 10 A Yeah, it's a picture of two great people.
11 A Certify. 11 Q Well, it's a picture of many, many people actually, if
12 Q Do you have a retainer agreement with them? 12 you go through, but you recognize it, right?
13 A Certify. 13 A Yeah.
14 Q How long did they work for you? 14 Q What is it?
15 A Certify. 15 A It is a picture of Miami-Dade Citizens For Property
16 Q Did you hire them personally, or did you have someone 16 Rights website I believe.
17 else hire them? 17 Q It's a printout of the website pages, right?
18 A Certify. 18 A Yeah, of the pages.
19 Q Do they work in conjunction with any of your other 19 Q Your Citizens For Property Rights website, was it
20 private investigator firms? 20 always like a dot com, or did it used to be dot org at one
21 A Certify. 21 point?
22 Q Were they tasked with investigating any specific 22 A I don't know, or both. I don't know.
23 individual from DERM? 23 Q Do you know which one it is now?
24 A Certify. 24 A You'd have to ask Jeff. He's the web manager, and he
25 MR. LEARY: We have a standing objection to 25 puts all the content on and he does everything.
Page 360 Page 362

1 relevance to any of this line of questioning, as well, going 1 Q And just so we're clear, we're talking about Exhibit
2 back to the first questions relating to 5326 Consulting, or 2 28, which is a printout of the website from Miami-Dade Citizens
3 Ms. Blau, or any other investigative services which may or 3 For Property Rights, that company, correct?
4 may not have been retained, used, utilized or, in any way, 4 A Yes.
5 communicated with by Mr. DuBois. 5 Q What is the purpose of that organization?
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 A To provide legal services to help people that are
7 Q You did task them with investigating John Ricisak, 7 unjustly treated by government organizations like Dade County,
8 correct? 8 some of the Dade County agencies.
9 A Certify. 9 Q Is it a law firm?
10 Q And they've produced a printout report from the 10 A I don't know. You'd have to ask Jeff.
11 internet concerning information of John Ricisak, correct? 11 Q So, you don't know if it's a law firm?
12 A Certify. 12 A I don't know what you would classify it as.
13 Q You've reviewed that document in the past, haven't you? 13 Q Well, let me ask it this way. Is its sole purpose to
14 A Certify. 14 provide legal services?
15 MR. LEARY: Continued objection to relevance. 15 A It has a lot of purposes.
16 MR. ANGELL: I understand that you have a standing 16 Q What are the other purposes?
17 objection to relevance. 17 A Education.
18 BY MR. ANGELL: 18 Q Your Articles of Incorporation state that the purpose
19 Q Have they furnished you any additional reports 19 is to educate citizens of Miami-Dade County --
20 concerning their investigation. 20 A There you go, education.
21 THE WITNESS: Certify. I've got to take a call 21 Q -- on their property rights, and how to stop the
22 now. 22 government from infringing on such rights.
23 MR. ANGELL: Go right ahead. 23 So, is that one of the purposes?
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Time is 14:18. Off the record. 24 A Yeah, I just said education, yeah.
25 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken from 2:18 p.m. 25 Q And the other purpose is to act as a law firm?
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1 A I don't know whether you'd classify it as a law firm or 1 BY MR. ANGELL:
2 not. 2 Q Do you have educational materials that are produced for
3 Q But it does provide legal representation to people, 3 the purpose of educating people, other than the website?
4 correct? 4 A You'd have to check with Jeff on that. I don't run
5 A You'd have to ask Jeff on exactly what services it 5 day-to-day.
6 provides. 6 Q Is your information made available someplace other than
7 Q Well, I can't ask him. I can only ask you. 7 the website where a member of the public could access it?
8 A He's the one that provides the services, so I wouldn't 8 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance, object to
9 know. 9 form.
10 Q But is it your understanding, as the principal of this 10 THE WITNESS: Same answer.
11 organization, that it does, in fact, provide legal services to 11 BY MR. ANGELL:
12 people? 12 Q Do you distribute written material anywhere?
13 A Yes, we provide legal services. 13 A Jeff runs the day-to-day. My principal function is
14 MR. LEARY: Object to these questions regarding the 14 funding and helping with the political connections.
15 operation of this particular non-private organization. 15 Q How many educational sessions with members of the
16 BY MR. ANGELL: 16 legislature have you had?
17 Q What educational events has your company held? 17 MR. LEARY: Object to form and relevance.
18 A We educate our state legislators on issues relating to 18 THE WITNESS: I guess it depends what you call
19 predatory behavior of government agencies. 19 educational session. So, it's hard to answer that question.
20 Q Are those public educational forums? 20 BY MR. ANGELL:
21 A Well, the public educational forum is what we provide 21 Q Well, in any way you define that term, how many
22 on the website to educate people. 22 meetings have you had with members of the legislature in order
23 Q So, the education that you give to different people on 23 to discuss with them, or educate them on property rights and how
24 the legislation, is that done in person? 24 to stop government from infringing those rights?
25 A It's different for everybody. We have different 25 A Well, we haven't had meetings with the legislature;
Page 364 Page 366

1 markets that we focus on. 1 we've had meetings with individuals.
2 So, if it's the general public, it's best done through 2 Q What individuals have you had meetings with?
3 social media and a website like you have in your exhibit. 3 A Various senators and house members, like Senator Hayes,
4 Q I'm asking about legislative people -- 4 the Dade County Delegation --
5 A Legislative people. 5 Q When did you meet with the Dade County Delegation?
6 Q -- since you said you have educated legislative people. 6 A -- members, I'm sorry members of the Dade County
7 A Yeah, we have. 7 Delegation.
8 Q Are those in-person education sessions? 8 (Whereupon, Mr. DuBois receives a phone call.
9 A Yes, they are, very often. 9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 14:39. Off the record.
10 Q And with what governmental people have you had these 10 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken from 2:39 p.m.
11 educational meetings with? 11 until 2:45 p.m.)
12 A State senators, state house members, county 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 2:45.
13 commissioners. 13 BY MR. ANGELL:
14 Q Are you present when those meetings take place? 14 Q How often does Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights
15 A I am typically present. 15 have educational training?
16 Q Are there materials that are provided in those 16 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance and the form.
17 meetings? 17 THE WITNESS: Mr. Leary does most of it, and I
18 A Just mostly verbal communications, sometimes business 18 don't manage day-to-day, so I wouldn't be able to answer
19 cards. 19 that question.
20 Q Is there ever a standard packet of educational 20 BY MR. ANGELL:
21 materials provided? 21 Q Do you know how many were done in the month of
22 22 November?
23 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and relevance. 23 A I have no idea.
24 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't call it a standard 24 Q Do you know how many were done in the year of 2016?
25 package, no. 25 A I have no idea.
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1 Q Do you know if any are scheduled for the year 2017? 1 Q Okay. So, I'm asking: Does your funding of the
2 A I have no idea. 2 organization pay for its employees?
3 Q Where is the actual office located for Miami-Dade 3 A Yeah, it pays part of Jeff's salary, yeah.
4 Citizens For Property Rights? 4 Q How many employees do you have at Miami-Dade Citizens
5 A You'd have to ask Jeff where he works out of. Like I 5 For Property Rights?
6 say, I provide funding. I don't get involved with day-to-day 6 A You're looking at him.
7 operations, so -- 7 Q So, just the two of you?
8 Q When you say -- 8 A Well, just him. I'm not an employee.
9 A -- he spends some of his time here with you. He spends 9 Q Okay. How many other people work for Miami-Dade
10 some of his time out of his home office. He spends some of his 10 Citizens For Property Rights?
11 time at my technology company headquarters in Sunrise, and some 11 A None.
12 of his time at Palmetto Bay in my office there. 12 Q So, just Mr. Leary and yourself?
13 Q Well, when he's working for your company, for Eyecast 13 A Well, let's put it this way. None are on payroll. He
14 -- that's who you're referring to, right? 14 may have some people that do volunteer work to help him. I
15 A Yeah, but he doesn't actually work for Eyecast. He 15 don't know. You have to ask him.
16 uses the office. I was just saying he uses the office there. 16 Q Do you know of anybody that works as a volunteer?
17 Q I thought he was the lawyer for Eyecast? 17 A I just said I don't know. You'd have to ask him.
18 A He is not paid as a lawyer. He's done some work, and 18 Q What are the funding sources besides yourself for
19 the office there is just as convenient as the office in Palmetto 19 Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights?
20 Bay, so he's welcome to use that, or his home office, or the 20 MR. LEARY: Object to the form of that question.
21 Palmetto Bay office. So, he's kind of roving. 21 THE WITNESS: As I said, under the IRS 501(c)4
22 Q So, he's not -- I thought...and correct me if I'm wrong 22 guidelines, it's not -- funding sources are not disclosed.
23 because maybe my memory is incorrect...I thought you testified 23 They're anonymous and not necessary to be disclosed.
24 in your August deposition that Mr. Leary was the lawyer for 24 MR. ANGELL: I assume you're certifying it?
25 Eyecast. 25 MR. LEARY: Yeah, Certify the question.
Page 368 Page 370

1 A He is listed -- 1 BY MR. ANGELL:
2 Q Right. 2 Q Do you know if a schedule is kept by anyone concerning
3 A -- on his Linked-In, I believe, as general counsel for 3 the educational sessions that your business has conducted?
4 Eyecast. However, we don't pay him at Eyecast. He just kind of 4 A I'll repeat. I don't get involved with day-to-day
5 helps out when he's asked. 5 operations. You'd have to consult with Mr. Leary.
6 But, to answer the question that you were asking, in 6 Q Your website states: Many of our Citizens and John
7 terms of where his office is, he uses various office locations 7 DuBois funded Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights as a
8 to sit and do his work. 8 not-for-profit organization to help.
9 Q So, is there no principal place of business for 9 Who are those many citizens?
10 Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights? 10 MR. LEARY: Object to the form.
11 A You could say there is a bunch of different places of 11 THE WITNESS: I've already answered the question.
12 business that he uses. 12 501(c)4 IRS does not require identification of donors or
13 What is your question? 13 funders for 501(c)4's. That's the reason for the
14 Q So, if Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights was to 14 distinction between an 501(c)3 and a 501(c)4.
15 meet with a person to consult about taking on a case, or to give 15 BY MR. ANGELL:
16 them education, is there an office that person would go to? 16 Q I understand your position.
17 A Jeff would set that up. Very often it's on the 17 MR. ANGELL: I assume you're certifying the
18 client's site, or in one of the locations I've mentioned. 18 question?
19 Q Then you said that you fund the non-profit. 19 MR. LEARY: Yes. Certify the question.
20 A Yeah, I provide most of the funding, yeah. 20 BY MR. ANGELL:
21 Q Does that include paying for the salary for the people 21 Q Have the Burches provided any funding to the non-profit
22 that work for the non-profit? 22 organization?
23 A It's a 501(c)4, so we actually don't disclose all 23 MR. ANGELL: Are you making that certified?
24 funding sources and financials on that. It's not public 24 MR. LEARY: Yeah.
25 information. 25 BY MR. ANGELL:
38 (Pages 367 - 370)

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1 Q The organization Miami-Dade Citizens For Property 1 practices, we take direct action in front of local authorities
2 Rights, when was it founded? 2 so that you don't have to.
3 A That would have been about 3 years ago. 3 Do you know any of these thousands of others that are
4 THE WITNESS: Is that right? 4 referenced?
5 MR. LEARY: I can't answer. 5 A No. I don't know them personally.
6 BY MR. ANGELL: 6 Q Do you know how many lawsuits Miami-Dade Citizens For
7 Q Was it founded after the enforcement action against you 7 Property Rights has filed on behalf of its clients? I
8 as initiated by DERM? 8 understand you don't know who the clients are.
9 A After the enforcement action? You're referring to the 9 MR. LEARY: Objection to relevance, and to form.
10 enforcement action of 2011? 10 THE WITNESS: I have no idea. You'd have to ask
11 Q I'll rephrase that. 11 Mr. Leary.
12 Was it founded before or after the lawsuit was 12 BY MR. ANGELL:
13 initiated against you that we're here for today? 13 Q Your website also says that you have a dedicated team
14 A Oh, it would have been after. 14 of professionals committed to protecting your property rights
15 Q Last time you were here you didn't know of anyone that 15 through legal services, advocacy and legislative changes.
16 the Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights represents. It's 16 Again, the actual organization is only you two, correct?
17 been a few months since you were asked that question. 17 A No, it's only Jeff from an employee point of view.
18 As you sit here today, do you know the names of any of 18 Q Do you ever retain outside counsel to assist?
19 the people that Miami-Dade Citizens For Property Rights 19 A You'd have to ask Jeff. I don't know.
20 represents in legal matters? 20 Q What legislative changes has Miami-Dade County Citizens
21 A I don't know the names. I know there's a Treehouse 21 for Property Rights lobbied to enact?
22 person, but I don't know her name, that he's picked up as a 22 MR. LEARY: Object to the form and to relevance.
23 client since we last talked. 23 THE WITNESS: That is going to have to be
24 Q Anyone else? 24 certified.
25 A Not that I know of. 25 MR. ANGELL: I guess we are certifying it?
Page 372 Page 374

1 Q Do you know if they represent April Burch in any 1 MR. LEARY: Yes.
2 capacity? 2 BY MR. ANGELL:
3 A I don't. 3 Q Your website has a quote from a small business owner
4 Q The website also says or invites people to get involved 4 named Alan Smith.
5 with hundreds of other homes and business owners who have fought 5 Who is that?
6 hard to keep their properties and businesses. 6 A I have no idea. You're going to have to ask Mr. Leary.
7 Do you know who any of those people are? 7 Q Have you ever met Mr. Smith?
8 MR. LEARY: Object to the form and as to relevance. 8 A I don't recall ever having met a Mr. Smith.
9 THE WITNESS: I mean, I've spoken probably in front of 9 Q Do you know what the nature of his claim was?
10 groups, but I don't recall having taken an attendance list. 10 A No idea.
11 BY MR. ANGELL: 11 Q Have you ever heard what the outcome of his claim was?
12 Q Well, it says hundreds of business that have fought 12 A I told you I don't get involved with cases other than
13 hard to keep their properties and businesses. 13 my own.
14 Do you know what businesses? 14 Q So, you don't know if it was a DERM issue, or if it was
15 A Yeah. Well, one of them is like in the Redlands with 15 a regulatory issue?
16 probably close to 100 people there, and they all have businesses 16 MR. LEARY: Object to the form and to relevance.
17 there. They run farms. 17 THE WITNESS: I have no idea.
18 Q You're talking about farms. I mean, it says 100s of 18 BY MR. ANGELL:
19 businesses. What businesses has the -- 19 Q Your website has a quote from a man named Bradley
20 A Farming is a business. 20 Grosh...G-R-O-S-H.
21 Q Yeah, I understand that, but it says 100s of 21 Do you know who that is?
22 businesses, so what are the names of some of these businesses? 22 A No idea.
23 A You'd have to ask Mr. Leary. 23 Q And you have no information about his case, I assume?
24 Q The website goes on to say: By joining thousands of 24 A I didn't create the website or the content. Mr. Leary
25 others who have been injured by the predatory government 25 did. You'd have to consult with him to get those answers.
39 (Pages 371 - 374)

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1 Q Your website also states that: Miami-Dade County has 1 of Miami-Dade County.
2 unlimited economic, legal and enforcement resources working 2 A Absolutely.
3 against you. 3 Q Who are the other dark lords of Miami-Dade County?
4 Do you believe that to be a true statement? 4 A Well, one is Tom Robertson?
5 A In practical terms, yeah. 5 MR. LEARY: Standing objection to relevance.
6 Q So, do you believe that Miami-Dade County has unlimited 6 BY MR. ANGELL:
7 economic resources? 7 Q Tom Robertson is from my office.
8 A In practical terms, yes. 8 A Yes.
9 Q What do you mean by that? 9 Q How about Jack Osterholdt, who you've seen in Federal
10 A What do I mean by that? In practical terms they have 10 Court --
11 unlimited resources. 11 MR. LEARY: I'm going to object and direct Mr.
12 Q Well, unlimited resources infers that they have an 12 DuBois not to answer that question.
13 unlimited budget, unlimited money, unlimited staff. 13 BY MR. ANGELL:
14 A In practical terms, from an individual that has an 14 Q Do you consider him to be a -- let me finish the
15 enforcement action taken against them, it does appear that way. 15 question.
16 Q Well, you know that that's not true. Miami-Dade County 16 Do you consider him to be a dark lord of Miami-Dade
17 has a budget. 17 County?
18 You're aware of that, correct? 18 A Absolutely not.
19 A We're talking about two different things. 19 Q What about Lee Hefty, do you consider him to be a dark
20 Q Well, that's what your website says. It says: 20 lord of Miami-Dade County?
21 Miami-Dade County has unlimited economic -- I'm just reading 21 A Absolutely not.
22 what your website says. You are the principal of the 22 Q What about Mayor Jimenez, do you consider him to be a
23 organization, and it says: Miami-Dade County has unlimited 23 dark lord of Miami-Dade County?
24 economic, legal and enforcement resources working against you. 24 A Absolutely not.
25 A From a practical point of view -- 25 Q What other DERM employees do you consider to be dark
Page 376 Page 378

1 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance. 1 lords of Miami-Dade County?
2 THE WITNESS: -- for individuals that are targeted, 2 MR. LEARY: Object to the relevance and to the
3 that is the case. 3 form.
4 BY MR. ANGELL: 4 THE WITNESS: Ms. Clingerman is another one.
5 Q Your website doesn't say: From a practical point of 5 BY MR. ANGELL:
6 view, Miami-Dade County has unlimited, economic -- 6 Q Joanne Clingerman. Who else?
7 A It's just semantics. 7 A That's about it for now.
8 I don't think you could -- if you ask anybody that has 8 Q What about Lisa Spadafina?
9 had an enforcement action taken against them by the County, I 9 A She's working her way up to the title.
10 think you would get the same sense from them, that the resources 10 Q How about Mike Spinelli?
11 that the County does and can provide cannot be matched by them, 11 A I don't know him.
12 which, from a practical point of view, makes it unlimited. 12 Q Barbara Brown?
13 Q Your website also says: Miami-Dade Citizens For 13 A I have no reason to believe that.
14 Property Rights will help you battle the dark lords of 14 Q The answer is no?
15 Miami-Dade County government. 15 A No.
16 Who are the dark lords of Miami-Dade County government? 16 Would you like to hear my definition on what I mean by
17 Because I've looked and we don't have a title of dark lord 17 that.
18 anywhere in our entire government agency. 18 Q By all means, tell me what you define dark lord as,
19 A We have one sitting in the room. 19 since it's referenced on your website with no definition.
20 Q Are you referring to me? 20 A Yeah, people that are willing to lie to achieve their
21 A No, I would never call you a dark lord. 21 means, and deceive people to achieve their means when in
22 Q Well, then who specifically are you referring to? 22 government, which I believe is totally inappropriate.
23 A The predatory enforcement agents that work for some of 23 Q And what actual evidence do you have that Ms.
24 the county agencies, including Mr. Ricisak. 24 Clingerman lied about anything to achieve her means?
25 Q So, it's your position that Mr. Ricisak is a dark lord 25 A The record speaks for itself with respect to the first
40 (Pages 375 - 378)

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Page 379 Page 381
1 letter I wrote about Ms. Clingerman that was submitted to the 1 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to
2 director of DERM. 2 relevance.
3 Q Your letter doesn't have anything substantial as far as 3 THE WITNESS: It's not my expertise.
4 physical, tangible evidence to it. 4 BY MR. ANGELL:
5 So, what physical, tangible evidence do you have that 5 Q Do you know whether or not your website comports with
6 Ms. Clingerman lied about anything to achieve her goals? 6 the Rules for the Florida Bar on how a legal services website
7 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, and to the 7 needs to appear and what it's allowed to say?
8 relevance. 8 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to
9 THE WITNESS: Well, when the director of the agency 9 relevance.
10 takes what I perceive as my side on it, I think that's an 10 THE WITNESS: It's not my area of expertise, so I
11 endorsement of my assertions. 11 wouldn't be able to comment on that.
13 Q Well, there's actually no document from Mr. Renfrow. 13 Q You would agree it is your business because you are the
14 You're referring to Mr. Renfrow, correct -- 14 principal of the agency?
15 A Yes. 15 A Yeah, I fund it.
16 Q -- not the current head of the agency? 16 Q And you are listed as an officer.
17 A Right. 17 A Yes.
18 Q There's actually no document from Mr. Renfrow that 18 Q So, you're also responsible for making sure it comports
19 substantiates your claims that he found Ms. Clingerman to be 19 with all laws, correct?
20 lying or dishonest, correct? 20 MR. LEARY: Object to the form, object to
21 MR. LEARY: Very conveniently. 21 relevance.
22 BY MR. ANGELL: 22 THE WITNESS: What you asked isn't a question of
23 Q Correct? 23 comporting to laws.
24 A So, that's your opinion. 24 BY MR. ANGELL:
25 Q Well, do you have a document that says it? Because I 25 Q You're a principal to something that's holding itself
Page 380 Page 382

1 would like to see it. I haven't seen it from all our discovery 1 out as a law firm by providing legal services to people.
2 requests. 2 A I never said we classified ourselves as a law firm;
3 A I don't have a document. 3 You're saying that.
4 Q Do you have a document that finds Mr. Ricisak has, in 4 Q Do you know how the Florida Bar classifies a law firm?
5 fact, lied to achieve his ends, that was authored by someone 5 A That's not my area of expertise.
6 other than you? 6 Q But you are the principal, nonetheless?
7 A When they, Mr. Ricisak and Ms. Clingerman, advised 7 A Yes.
8 Ms. Burch's former attorney that they would go easier on her if 8 MR. ANGELL: I don't have anything further.
9 she "rolls on me." Yeah, coercion to lie, to me, is adequate 9 MR. LEARY: Okay.
10 justification for that. 10 MR. ANGELL: We are going to have a hearing on the
11 Q What was that former attorney's name? 11 certification of the questions.
12 A You've heard it. 12 THE WITNESS: Right.
13 Q No, I'm asking. 13 MR. ANGELL: So, I'm going to have you back again
14 A It is Shubin. 14 in this type of a setting.
15 Q Shubin? 15 You have a right, just like last time, to read this
16 A Yes. 16 transcript when it's typed up, or you can waive that. I
17 Q It's your testimony that Mr. Shubin told you that? 17 assume because you were reading last time, you're going to
18 A Yes. 18 read this time.
19 Q Do you know if the manner in which Miami-Dade Citizens 19 THE WITNESS: Say that again.
20 For Property Rights functions, in how it provides legal 20 MR. ANGELL: Is he going to read or waive?
21 services, if that comports with the Florida Bar Ethics Rules? 21 MR. LEARY: He'll read.
22 A Say that again. 22 MR. ANGELL: Okay. He'll read. It's noted for the
23 Q Do you know if how your non-profit organization goes 23 record.
24 about providing legal services, if it comports with the Rules of 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 15:00. We're going
25 the Florida Bar? 25 off the record.
41 (Pages 379 - 382)

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Page 383 Page 385
1 (The deposition was concluded at 3:00 p.m.) 1 Veritext Legal Solutions
2 One Biscayne Tower,
3 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 2 South Biscayne Blvd.,
4 Suite 2250, Miami, FL 33131
STATE OF FLORIDA 3 (305) 376-8800
5 COUNTY OF MIAMI-DADE 4
6 ____________, 2017
I, Teresa H. Miranda, Notary Public in and for the State of 5
7 Florida at large, do hereby certify that JOHN E. DuBois was by 6
me first duly sworn to testify the whole truth; that I was RE: MIAMI-DADE COUNTY vs. JOHN E. DUBOIS
8 authorized to and did report said deposition in stenotype; and 7 CASE NO: 12-37012 CA 01
that the foregoing pages, numbered from 222 to 383, inclusive, DEPOSITION OF: John E. DuBois
9 are a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of 8
said deposition. Jeffrey P. Leary, Esquire
10 9 18495 South Dixie Hwy, PMB 107
I further certify that said deposition was taken at the time Cutler Bay, Florida 33157
10
11 and place hereinabove set forth and that the taking of said
Dear Mr. Leary:
deposition was commenced and completed as hereinabove set out.
11
12
Please be advised that the original transcript of the foregoing
I further certify that I am not an attorney or counsel of
12 deposition is available at our offices for reading and signing
13 any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any
by Mr. DuBois. Please have Mr. DuBois review the testimony, and
attorney or counsel of party connected with the action, nor am I
13 once he's signed it, please remit back the errata sheet with any
14 financially interested in the action. corrections to our offices.
15 The foregoing certification of this transcript does not 14
apply to any reproduction of the same by any means unless under If we do not hear from you within 30 days of this letter, we
16 the direct control and/or direction of the certifying reporter. 15 will send the original transcript to the attorney who took the
17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 9th day deposition.
of January, 2017 16
18 If you have any questions, please call (305) 376-8800.
19 <%Signature%> 17 Thank you for your cooperation.
___________________ 18
20 Teresa H. Miranda 19
Commission No. EE 223777 Teresa H. Miranda,
21 My commission Expires: 20 Court Reporter
May 09, 2019 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
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19 ________________________________________________________________
20 ________________________________________________________________
Please forward the original signed errata sheet to this office
21 so that copies may be distributed to all parties.
22 Under penalty of perjury, I declare that I have read my
deposition and that it is true and correct subject to any
23 changes in form or substance entered here.
24 DATE:_______ SIGNATURE OF DEPONENT:_____________________
25
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293:12,24 297:23 338:12 344:23 planted 304:12 possession 313:25
363:24 364:8 345:18 348:15 339:18 340:2,4,5 possible 249:8
368:15,16 371:22 353:5 361:10,11,15 341:22 351:9 256:5 268:17
personally 235:1,4 pictures 327:24 plastic 285:7,12 324:10,19
249:22 270:19 352:25 played 231:24 posted 224:5
280:16 289:12 piece 291:17 358:3 pleading 238:1 240:12
294:15,17 359:16 pile 260:15 261:16 please 225:9 potentially 342:11
373:5 261:22,24 262:1 226:13,20,25 practical 375:5,8
personnel 350:4 pink 263:21 288:12 241:10 248:1 268:9 375:10,14,25 376:5
peruses 265:14 place 230:25 253:6 275:12 302:25 376:12
phone 223:5,9 275:18 276:3 343:6 384:20 practices 373:1
227:2 231:22 278:12 339:14 385:11,12,13,16 predatory 363:19
274:24 284:12 364:14 368:9 pmb 223:8 385:9 372:25 376:23
310:1 366:8 383:11 point 226:24 preface 311:25
photo 224:6 260:1 placed 262:15 251:13 257:3 prefer 326:6
299:10 326:21 336:24,25 337:6,19 265:22 266:10 preliminary 270:5
327:18 331:7 339:1,12,19,23 268:4 269:22 preparation 230:1
347:12 340:6 307:23 313:11 prepare 227:16
photograph 223:20 placement 298:16 320:12 325:25 prepared 227:24
223:21,21 224:7 339:17 329:9 358:8 361:21 present 223:11
243:7,9 245:17,21 places 368:11 373:17 375:25 225:14 230:19,21
246:2,3 260:2,22 plaintiff 222:6 376:5,12 231:4,20 294:24
260:23 261:4,15,17 223:2 225:18 234:6 pointing 353:7 295:10 296:25
262:3,10 263:1 234:8 police 223:24 297:2,5 298:13
306:1 327:23 328:2 plaintiff's 223:19 283:25 284:6,7 299:4,9 301:7
328:9 345:1,3,11 239:9,10 240:23 298:5,6,7 321:15 328:25
348:18 241:3 242:6,9,11 political 293:19 348:22 350:4
photographs 224:9 244:16 245:22 294:3 365:14 364:14,15
224:11 250:8 261:5 259:22 260:10,13 politics 293:19,23 presenting 306:23
326:22 333:6 263:4 265:7 279:7 pontoon 291:19 preservation
337:12 283:20 285:14 portion 229:5,25 312:14
photos 352:23 289:19 290:14 259:12 265:18 pretty 281:24
physical 297:16 299:6 302:8,12 266:8 286:16,18 285:25 345:24
379:4,5 303:16 306:8 326:25 335:1 352:7
picked 371:22 318:16 342:19 350:20 prevent 284:14
picture 243:21 350:13 352:19 portions 265:24 previous 248:7
244:3,14 245:11,12 353:21 361:4

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previously 242:1 produced 360:10 313:16,21,22,23,25 provides 363:6,8

principal 363:10 365:2 314:3,8,11,18 380:20
365:13 368:9 professionals 315:14,15,18,21,22 providing 380:24
375:22 381:14,25 321:25 373:14 316:1,5,10,15,20 382:1
382:6 profit 368:19,22 317:1,6 321:22 public 356:12
printed 319:2 370:8,21 380:23 322:10,24 323:4,6 358:16 363:20,21
354:23 program 244:5 323:9 324:22,23,24 364:2 365:7 368:24
printout 360:10 project 301:17 325:9,14 326:25,25 383:6
361:17 362:2 325:24 329:4,23,24 330:14 published 306:22
prior 230:7,16 properly 252:3 331:8,24,25 332:1 pull 274:20,23
232:12,16 248:4 properties 232:23 332:6,6,22 333:11 purchased 255:15
255:23 257:3 259:15 356:1 372:6 334:3,4 335:5,12 255:19 315:22
277:13 280:15,17 372:13 335:13,14 336:8,19 336:18
288:5 291:3 295:24 property 224:7,12 336:22 338:13,17 purchasing 324:22
301:12,21,23 356:2 234:21 236:12 338:18,19 340:6,11 324:23 356:3
private 268:21 238:24 240:4,6,9 340:20,21 345:3,17 purpose 260:13
269:11 272:2,7 240:12,16,19,21,22 346:1,20 347:6,15 262:17 269:19
274:19 275:1,5 244:11,25 245:5,8 347:18 348:1,3,8,8 298:23 350:19
358:11 359:20 246:7,12,15,21 348:9 349:1,2,6,7,7 362:5,13,18,25
363:15 255:15,16,20,24,25 349:10,11,15,20 365:3
privilege 358:17,18 256:5,16,17,24 350:2,3,5,11 purposes 239:9
358:19 257:5 258:6,13,19 351:13 356:2,2 240:4 362:15,16,23
privileged 226:16 258:23 259:3,7,10 361:15,19 362:3,21 pursued 235:6
226:17,18 317:20 259:12,14 260:3 365:23 366:14 put 232:17 261:11
342:11 263:20 264:4,4,8 367:4 368:10,14 261:24 275:15
privy 236:22 264:14 269:8 369:5,10,19 370:7 283:2,10,11,12,13
pro 322:19 355:15 275:13 278:1,5,19 371:1,16,19 373:7 283:15 286:1 308:2
355:16 280:12,19 281:2,22 373:14,21 376:14 308:4 334:9 336:13
probable 256:4 282:8,12 290:25 380:20 337:4 340:11,12,12
probably 227:11 292:3,4,14,19 protecting 373:14 369:13
231:13 279:25 293:7 295:24 298:9 protection 249:15 puts 361:25
282:18 315:2,11 300:4 301:2 302:3 356:14 357:25 putting 253:20,21
316:2 321:11 323:7 303:5,11,20 304:1 358:4 q
326:2 345:23 372:9 304:2,7,7,10,14,20 provide 305:25
quadrant 337:1
372:16 304:21,24,25 307:3 362:6,14 363:3,11
quasi 230:13
problem 287:16 307:12,14,25 308:3 363:13,21 367:6
question 226:11,12
331:9 308:4,7,11,22 368:20 376:11
226:20,21,22,23
procedure 234:18 309:2,3,6,9,12,16 provided 303:4
227:15 228:3,4,5
proceed 351:15 309:19 310:4,10,18 317:13 364:16,21
229:16,21 232:15
process 273:1 310:19 312:13,23 370:21
236:9 243:15 251:4
289:14 313:2,2,3,4,5,8,12
251:7,8,20,20,23
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252:3,6,25 253:7 253:24 255:2 realized 288:20 346:3,6,7,16,17,18

254:11,12,16,18,22 263:16 272:18,25 292:6,13 346:21 347:16,23
256:3,25 257:16 273:4 287:23 really 232:8 233:7 348:10,17 349:15
267:23 268:13 289:16 294:11 250:2,24 251:13 350:12 352:8,9
269:11 270:19 302:14 303:14 268:13 270:3 354:4 356:10,20
272:20,22 273:11 305:4 306:15 reason 243:8,10,15 372:10 374:8
273:13,18,21,23 311:14 312:1 313:7 243:17 244:7,14 receipt 287:15,17
274:1,4,6,9,12,15 313:9 321:24 245:17,20 265:23 receive 227:2
274:18,22,25 275:4 324:10 354:8,16 291:22 292:11 received 288:3,8,24
275:7,19 276:2 358:12 360:2 336:10,20 370:13 receives 366:8
278:8 291:10 363:14 382:11 378:13 384:3 recess 300:21
294:10,13,19,21,23 385:16 recall 226:7 229:23 326:13 331:15
295:1,3,5,7,9,11,13 quote 374:3,19 230:12 231:17 360:25 366:10
295:15,18,23 296:1 r 233:5,12 234:4,5,6 recitals 253:17
296:4,8,10,12,16 235:22,23 236:9,19 recognize 289:23
r 325:5 374:20
296:18,21,24 297:4 238:2,19,25 239:1 331:22 354:1 361:9
384:1,1
297:7,9,15,18,21 247:14,18,19,24 361:12
rain 286:15
297:24 303:9,21 248:2 249:20 recollection 226:6
rains 308:1
304:10 305:14 256:18 263:11,24 265:6 267:17,24
raise 258:19,22
322:2 323:19 264:2,5,6,7 265:5 280:17 281:15,19
259:2
333:15 334:11 265:24 268:17,17 307:14
raised 259:7,10,12
337:14 338:3 269:6,20 270:3,8 record 225:1,10
raising 259:14
339:20 340:8,20 271:5,18 273:10,17 232:1 241:13 248:3
read 227:25 228:2
341:20,25 342:4,10 273:19,22,24 274:2 265:13,15 300:5,20
228:2,8,13,17
342:13,17 345:19 274:5,7,10,13,16 300:23 326:9,12,16
229:8,15,17 249:7
347:13 358:7,14,20 274:19,23 275:1 327:24 331:14,18
249:9,10,14,17
358:23,23 359:2 278:4,14,21 279:2 360:24 361:3 366:9
265:19 266:21
365:19 366:19 279:21,25 280:11 366:12 378:25
267:7 269:4 285:20
368:6,13 369:20,25 281:3,25 282:1,7,8 382:23,25
285:21 286:16,19
370:11,18,19 282:18 283:2 285:3 recorded 231:20,21
286:20 287:1,25,25
371:17 377:12,15 285:10,13 286:9 231:23 294:22
290:3,5 291:25
381:22 288:23 290:4,6,20 295:4 297:13
317:11 350:23
questioned 229:11 298:2,11 299:3,4,5 recording 231:22
355:1 382:15,18,20
229:12 230:16 302:23 305:3,4,6,9 300:7,8
382:21,22 384:22
294:14 305:1 305:13 309:19 records 274:20,24
reading 286:1
questioning 226:13 315:13,13 316:2 283:13 358:17
375:21 382:17
229:18,20 360:1 318:8,12,14 319:5 recross 223:15
385:12
questions 226:4 319:13 320:1 321:4 red 269:5,6 291:15
reads 276:1 354:3
227:11 229:2 321:13 324:20 305:10 327:9
real 223:23 232:22
236:21,22 237:17 337:22 339:4,12 328:22 330:20,21
265:2 268:1,12
240:15 248:7 341:10 345:25 331:1 334:17
270:18,21 271:3,4
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336:17 338:23 rehash 313:9 365:8,17 366:16 repair 299:19

340:15 341:1,8,13 related 249:14 372:8 373:9,22 308:13
341:22 274:17 357:14 374:16 376:1 377:5 repeat 251:7 322:2
redirect 223:15 358:1 378:2 379:8 381:2 370:4
229:9,10 relates 254:15 381:9,21 rephrase 226:21
redlands 311:8 relating 342:6 relevant 254:20 229:17 245:5
352:3 372:15 354:16 360:2 relying 258:17 250:13 296:5 297:1
refer 258:12 363:18 remediated 348:1 310:8 317:23 318:1
261:15 275:10 relation 312:4 remediation 324:14 339:16,22
327:18 329:11 relationship 271:23 351:19 348:20 371:11
343:22 344:25 298:21 313:8 remember 226:7 reply 268:1
reference 266:8 314:20,21 231:14 233:14 report 223:25
276:3 284:11 relative 231:15 237:25 267:21,22 224:7 284:6,7,17
307:17 328:24 383:13 269:24 270:1,6,7 298:5,6 301:13,22
329:9 relevance 236:20 270:20 277:23 301:24 302:18
referenced 271:12 237:16 240:14 281:15 283:10 323:9,12 347:17,20
373:4 378:19 245:10,19 246:18 308:12 338:2,11 360:10 383:8
referred 254:2 248:12,18,22 249:4 349:5,9 reported 295:17
referring 234:1 250:9,16,22 251:12 remind 352:14,15 reporter 222:24
250:4 260:22 261:4 251:18 252:15,20 remit 385:13 223:13 225:7
262:3 263:1 267:2 253:16 254:14 removal 336:12 227:12 228:18
292:21 327:10,23 255:7,18 257:22 340:14 341:13,18 230:19,20,21 231:6
328:2,21 340:22 258:8,15 259:5,18 341:21 231:19 232:5,6
343:20 367:14 261:6 262:18 remove 316:14 241:10 248:1
371:9 376:20,22 263:13 269:16 317:5 336:7,11,20 252:23 293:25
379:14 270:13 271:17,22 341:4 294:24 325:6
refusing 272:22 272:9,17 276:8,24 removed 278:5,10 383:16 385:20
regard 356:15 277:22 280:22 303:3,6 305:7,9,12 reporter's 383:3
regarding 236:21 285:24 289:3,16 305:16 335:1,7,8 reports 237:22
237:17 240:15 295:19 298:1 335:24 336:3,5,9 270:4 274:2 360:19
252:8 263:16 299:12 301:15 336:10 341:2,2,8 represent 320:6
272:18 289:17 302:1,5 311:4 341:25 348:2 322:24 372:1
302:17 305:4 314:13 318:7 319:6 351:25 353:3 representation
321:24,25 354:8 319:12 320:4,19 renfrow 379:13,14 242:18 245:14
363:14 321:2,10,23 322:14 379:18 266:7 320:3 363:3
regardless 340:25 323:16 325:10 rent 232:24 representative
regards 236:23 342:5 347:22 348:4 rentals 236:13 225:15
248:5 348:11 349:12,21 renumbered representatives
regulatory 222:5 350:8 351:20 354:7 326:23 348:7
374:15 355:18 356:8 358:6 rep 223:11 represented 233:16
360:1,15,17 364:23

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represents 371:16 responsible 284:23 264:3 265:3,20 rip 234:12

371:20 293:12,16 297:17 268:1,11,16 269:4 ripped 235:2
reproduction 297:23 381:18 278:18 280:4,16 road 307:23
383:15 rest 228:24 281:4,9 282:1,9 robertson 227:22
request 224:6 restoration 310:18 284:19 285:1 290:7 228:6,22 229:1,12
237:10,13 278:19 335:19,20,21 294:1,2,6,9,14 229:18 291:4 377:4
287:4,13 302:17,19 restore 308:1 347:9 295:14,22,25 377:7
302:24,25 303:3 restroom 226:25 296:11,13,14,17,20 rocket 276:18
357:19 restructuring 296:23 297:3,11,11 roff 283:18
requested 358:23 356:13 297:17 342:1,7 rolls 380:9
requests 380:2 result 293:19 348:17,19,22,25 room 222:21
require 236:21 307:25 351:8 349:6,10,19 360:7 225:14 376:19
370:12 retain 268:20 269:1 360:11 376:24,25 roots 353:15
required 257:15 269:11,19 373:18 380:4,7 roughly 313:16
258:19,22 259:2 retained 232:5 ricisak's 264:16 roving 367:21
301:13,20 269:14 272:7,18 284:23 293:21 rules 226:1 380:21
requirement 273:9 358:13 360:4 297:12 380:24 381:6
258:23 retainer 269:23 ride 308:15 ruling 239:3
requirements 273:19 359:12 right 261:17 run 347:10 365:4
257:8 retaining 271:1 268:11 273:6 275:9 372:17
requires 252:24 320:17 277:17 286:21 runs 261:1 365:13
reside 315:14 retention 321:24 287:6,12 292:20,22 s
resided 315:17 retrieve 285:8 292:23 293:13,14
s 223:18 224:1
residency 315:20 return 325:18 294:3,11 298:13
374:20 384:1
residents 292:3 reversed 239:6 303:15 311:22
salary 368:21
resolution 357:19 review 229:19 316:1 320:13 328:2
369:3
resolutions 357:18 230:1,5 265:12 328:4 329:17 330:9
sample 250:5
resolved 233:15,17 266:20 302:13,22 333:7,23 335:25
sand 261:7
234:23 306:14 385:12 337:23 344:4
sandra 223:12
resources 222:5 reviewed 229:18 360:23 361:12,17
225:7
375:2,7,11,12,24 266:9 267:17 367:14 368:2 371:4
sat 309:22
376:10 268:20 360:13 379:17 382:12,15
saw 277:9 282:6
respect 256:3 reviewing 229:25 rights 224:12
292:13 310:23
378:25 250:8 302:23 322:24 361:16,19
346:17
respond 251:20 306:14 362:3,21,22 365:23
saying 239:17
326:4 reward 293:11 365:24 366:14
311:25 330:11
responded 284:10 ricisak 223:11,23 367:4 368:10,14
333:13 367:16
response 224:7 225:15 232:14 369:5,10,19 370:7
382:3
302:16,19,20,22 236:18 237:10,14 371:2,16,19 373:7
says 235:14 256:8
303:4,8 237:19,23 238:22 373:14,21 376:14
258:9,17 260:7
241:8,20,24 250:1 380:20
263:20 267:6
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268:20 275:12,23 332:17,25 333:12 380:21,24 381:6 shows 297:22

279:15,22 284:8 333:22 337:11 382:1 326:24 338:14
286:21,25 287:3,12 343:24 344:2,6,11 session 365:19 shubin 320:5,9
287:17 302:25 345:2,5 351:4 sessions 364:8 380:14,15,17
315:23 355:4 352:1 353:7 380:1 365:15 370:3 shubin's 321:7
356:12 372:4,12,18 seeing 279:2 set 293:20 368:17 side 293:20 303:12
372:21 373:13 330:14 345:25 383:11,11,17 303:13 306:5,5
375:20,20,22,23 346:3,6 setting 382:14 333:11 335:11,17
376:13 379:25 seek 264:4 settlement 235:19 337:2 338:4,5,9,9
schael 224:7 302:3 seen 230:6 241:7,11 351:1 338:17,19 351:13
302:18 303:4 246:24 263:10 seven 229:2 356:3 379:10
347:20 284:1,3 317:15 share 322:20 sided 266:2 279:19
schael's 301:13,21 322:25 323:12 sheet 384:20 290:18
301:24 346:19 347:18 385:13 sides 265:25
schedule 370:2 350:22 377:9 380:1 shoreline 245:1 sign 234:25 240:21
scheduled 367:1 sell 325:8 246:24 240:22
scientist 276:19 semantics 376:7 short 300:21 signature 383:19
scope 273:24 359:6 senator 366:3 331:15 360:25 384:24
scott 241:9 senators 364:12 shorthand 383:9 signed 384:20
scrape 345:23 366:3 shot 245:13 385:13
search 248:4 send 280:9 385:15 shouldered 269:6 signing 385:12
352:13 sending 281:24 show 239:8,10 similar 229:1
second 266:14 sense 266:6 376:10 241:2,4 242:8 simply 242:1 307:3
277:3 291:23 sent 237:10 239:4 244:19 245:14,25 single 356:4,5
302:18 343:8,12 256:19 270:21 259:25 263:7 sinking 347:11
344:25 346:11 289:5 291:3 302:22 265:10 283:23 sir 225:23 229:14
350:20 353:10 308:12,14 354:23 302:11 303:19 254:11 260:11
section 227:17 septic 262:25 318:19 327:8,9,17 275:25 279:6
228:2,4 293:6 series 224:8 318:11 328:7 331:20 332:5 338:19 350:1,17
327:10 328:25 326:21 350:16 352:25 sit 254:24 258:5
330:17,20,22 serve 289:15 342:3 361:7 281:19 338:16
331:24 332:5 served 289:12 showed 340:10 352:12 368:8
338:22 342:1,9 showing 279:10 371:18
security 282:24,25 server 289:14 285:17 289:22 site 269:7 300:12
see 248:4 260:4,16 service 235:8,9 290:17 306:11 303:2 340:18
260:23,24 261:18 services 272:7 342:22 352:22 368:18
262:5,11 279:18 289:17 320:18 353:24 sitting 286:14
292:11 293:8 306:1 321:21 322:5,10,13 shown 287:5 293:24 307:11
310:1,13,18 314:25 359:3 360:3 362:6 305:19 332:6 376:19
315:10,11 323:2,17 362:14 363:5,8,11 333:20 345:17 six 229:2 281:20
327:12,20 332:12 363:13 373:15

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sleep 292:12 south 223:8 337:1 stacy 358:25 statutes 253:6

small 311:15 313:9 385:2,9 staff 375:13 stay 292:8
314:15 350:24 southeastern 337:1 staked 301:1,8,10 stenographer
374:3 southern 260:22 301:12,21 231:19
smaller 244:5 261:1 303:7,19,22 stakes 298:9,16 stenotype 383:8
smith 374:4,7,8 303:25 304:6 stamp 242:11 stepped 313:22
social 275:2 300:12 332:23 333:5,10 stand 305:1 steve 223:22
364:3 335:1 336:16 standalone 245:11 256:10 263:9
sod 253:21 336:25 337:19,24 339:13 standard 364:20,24 steward 355:25
337:4,6,19 339:17 340:5 351:10 standing 243:21 sticker 260:8
339:18,23 340:6,11 space 355:25 356:1 342:5 354:15 stipulation 309:21
soil 250:5 253:20 356:5 359:25 360:16 stop 296:11 362:21
337:7,8,8,9 spadafina 378:8 377:5 365:24
sole 295:16 362:13 speak 241:10 268:9 stapleton 223:12 stored 300:9,12
solely 319:16 282:5 225:6 stories 307:15
solis 223:12 225:7 speaking 227:14 start 330:24 story 269:5
solutions 385:1 262:22 282:9 started 270:6 292:1 straightened
somebody 285:6 speaks 378:25 starting 260:2 353:15
291:16,22 292:14 special 228:10 284:20 342:24 strange 291:18
306:22 324:24 specific 251:21 343:4 street 222:21 223:4
345:9 305:4 312:10 starts 265:19 277:8 strengthen 356:13
someplace 365:6 350:19 358:3 state 222:24 225:9 stretch 227:2
son 313:1,11,12,15 359:22 239:2,3,7 241:8 strip 356:24
soon 271:14 341:12 specifically 226:11 277:3 362:18 study 257:9
341:13,16,18,21 239:25 262:22 363:18 364:12,12 stuff 232:10 237:4
sooner 227:6 269:1 274:7 308:4 383:4,6 239:16,21 247:9
sorry 245:5 248:10 308:8 376:22 stated 228:25 242:1 252:8 267:21 269:4
254:23 260:9,14 specifics 252:10 253:19,19 254:9,12 269:9 279:3 283:3
267:5,16 268:4 specified 338:9,10 255:8 307:2 329:13 styled 225:4
272:14 275:20 spend 313:2 statement 254:18 suarez 224:10
279:6,17 297:1 spending 356:23 255:12 267:9 271:2 351:1,1,8
307:18 317:25 spends 367:9,9,10 271:4,6,9,11 375:4 subcontractor
333:9 336:1 337:16 spent 276:9 307:10 statements 230:10 234:24
343:10 353:7,19 307:15 313:4 294:18,22,25 295:2 subdivide 356:3
366:6 spinelli 378:10 295:4 297:11 355:6 subject 255:24
sort 328:22 347:2 spoke 268:18 270:7 states 236:10,15 303:2,5 384:22
355:10 281:4 352:17 251:25 256:4 268:1 submerged 238:18
sounds 265:23 spoken 280:16 303:5 370:6 375:1 238:23 239:4,7,11
sources 368:24 372:9 stating 254:21,23 240:3,7,10,13,15
369:18,22 square 303:3 statute 249:7,10,13 241:9 258:1
249:17

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submitted 239:2 surprised 267:22 taken 222:21,23,24 265:22 280:7

323:8 379:1 surveillance 274:17 244:3 246:3,4 291:23 305:16
subpoena 288:25 282:13,14,15 283:3 300:21 326:13 323:23 330:8
289:12,15 283:4,6 297:19,22 331:15 352:23 333:14,18 335:16
subpoenaed 289:8 survey 224:10 360:25 366:10 336:4 345:14,18,21
subsequently 298:9 304:23 372:10 375:15 348:16 352:13
283:11 288:15,17 350:19,20,22,24,25 376:9 383:10 384:2 353:4 378:18
substance 236:24 351:4,8 takes 379:10 telling 234:15
384:23 surveying 224:10 talk 247:1 271:1 330:3 335:22
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800-726-7007 305-376-8800
FLORIDA RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE
Rule 1.310
(e) Witness Review. If the testimony is
transcribed, the transcript shall be furnished to
the witness for examination and shall be read to or
by the witness unless the examination and reading
are waived by the witness and by the parties. Any
changes in form or substance that the witness wants
to make shall be listed in writing by the officer
with a statement of the reasons given by the
witness for making the changes. The changes shall
be attached to the transcript. It shall then be
signed by the witness unless the parties waived the
signing or the witness is ill, cannot be found, or
refuses to sign. If the transcript is not signed by
the witness within a reasonable time after it is
furnished to the witness, the officer shall sign
the transcript and state on the transcript the
waiver, illness, absence of the witness, or refusal
to sign with any reasons given therefor. The
deposition may then be used as fully as though
signed unless the court holds that the reasons
given for the refusal to sign require rejection of

the deposition wholly or partly, on motion under
rule 1.330(d)(4).
DISCLAIMER: THE FOREGOING CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES
ARE PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
THE ABOVE RULES ARE CURRENT AS OF SEPTEMBER 1,
2016. PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE STATE RULES
OF CIVIL PROCEDURE FOR UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.

VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS
COMPANY CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENT
Veritext Legal Solutions represents that the

foregoing transcript is a true, correct and complete
transcript of the colloquies, questions and answers
as submitted by the court reporter. Veritext Legal
Solutions further represents that the attached
exhibits, if any, are true, correct and complete
documents as submitted by the court reporter and/or
attorneys in relation to this deposition and that
the documents were processed in accordance with
our litigation support and production standards.
Veritext Legal Solutions is committed to maintaining

the confidentiality of client and witness information,
in accordance with the regulations promulgated under
the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability
Act (HIPAA), as amended with respect to protected
health information and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, as
amended, with respect to Personally Identifiable
Information (PII). Physical transcripts and exhibits
are managed under strict facility and personnel access
controls. Electronic files of documents are stored
in encrypted form and are transmitted in an encrypted
fashion to authenticated parties who are permitted to
access the material. Our data is hosted in a Tier 4
SSAE 16 certified facility.
Veritext Legal Solutions complies with all federal and

State regulations with respect to the provision of
court reporting services, and maintains its neutrality
and independence regardless of relationship or the
financial outcome of any litigation. Veritext requires
adherence to the foregoing professional and ethical
standards from all of its subcontractors in their
independent contractor agreements.
Inquiries about Veritext Legal Solutions'

confidentiality and security policies and practices
should be directed to Veritext's Client Services
Associates indicated on the cover of this document or
at www.veritext.com.

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