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Former Gravedigger at NCMC
Lives in Ottawa, Ontario
6:55PM
you managed to get yourself blocked, but if you
would like to discuss this in a civilized manner
feel free on here

James Ash accepted your request.

Blocked by whom?

the original poster of that video

Ah.

want to continue the discussion without the

insults and such?

I couldn't help but call you an imbecile, Tim. I

went about patiently explaining the ways you
were wrong when you took us down
"Semantics Blvd.", and before I was even three
lines in, you had fired off like, eight more
replies, several of which contained videos.
Like...good god, man.

i failed to see the ways i am wrong. i have alot

of experience with arms and armor both
modern and medieval. yes those guys are often
somewhat dense but their methodology is
sound

Tim, you've got to take yourself out of the

equation. Presenting yourself as though you're
an authority in the way you're doing only takes
from your objectivity.

You may very well have plenty of experience -

but it doesn't change the fact that those guys
are backyard enthusiasts, not experts. They
were firing (for the most part) low-velocity
rounds at steel targets with convex / rounded
edges. "Ho-ho-ho! It deflected it!!" Yeah, no
shit, guys.
most armor does not have very many flat
surfaces. the same surface that would catch a
bullet would catch a sword. i have seen both
first hand and via vid numerous displays of gun
vs armor and 90 percent of the time the armor
wins

That's true, they were designed to deflect the

projectiles of their day.

and the projectiles of our day follow the same

rules, they are just smaller and faster, but most
armor can handle them

I'm just saying, the only metal portion of most

shields was the centre, the rest being laminates
(usually). And when it comes to firing at a
cuirass? Centre mass? A slow-moving musket
ball or a high-velocity rifle round will punch
right through it.

center mass is ridged and not flat, its a one in a

million shot that would catch

...you might come off wounded with pistol fire

if you catch only a glancing blow, but the
conditions need to be perfect.
Doesn't matter.

i would like to see proof of non costume grade

armor failing vs a bullet

Dude, first off, you have to define your terms.

The right armour will protect its wearer from
the right bullet, okay? No question. But there is
an IMMENSE difference between a sub-sonic
.45 ACP round and say, a 5.56mm .22 caliber
going in excess of 3000 fps with a jacketed
projectile. It will tear through antiquated plate
armour like butter.

Fire glancing .22 LR rounds off reinforced (and

by that I meant that the helmet had a riveted
superstructure by the way, not that the armour
was meant to "reinforce", ie. "protect" the
person wearing it) and you'll get deflected
shots all day long.

steel plate is still used as modern ballistic

armor, a properly hardened breastplate of a
combat grade thickness will stop most bullets
show me one good video of a rifle(standard
rifle not anti material rifle) penetrating a
hardened 12-14 g breastplate and i will
concede the field

"Standard rifle"? What does that mean?

I'm reading military on your page, but you're
not talking like a military guy.

up to 7.62 is pretty standard, given that ak's

are probably the most prevalent firearm in the
world, no barrett 50 cals or elephant guns
thats your opinion mate

Dude, even in that last message you illustrate

that you don't know what you're talking about.
7.62 refers to the caliber alone: .30 cal. For
instance, my .308 is a 7.62 caliber, meaning
that it has the same diameter as the AK round
you just referenced, but a much longer case
length. Hence, it goes way, WAY faster.

So again, when I ask you to define "standard

rifle" (because that is incredibly vague), I am
disappointed when you come back with that.

i am dissapointed that you constantly give me

conjecture and assumptions when i ask for
simple evidence, i even stacked the deck in
your favor

"Conjecture"? "Assumptions"? I'm giving you

facts, dude. Look up anything I just said and
learn that it is top-to-bottom true.
I give points where they're due.

like i said, show me proof and i will concede

the field, you can argue all you like but until
you provide proof its just your opinion. i have
shot steel, i have shot other materials. you have
yet to show me anything but your opinion, and
judging by your opinion you have never had to
shoot much of anything other than targets

For instance, you are not incorrect in stating

that steel plate is still used for modern armour.
However, the plate steel that is used to cover a
soldier's vitals is NOT constructed the way
plate armour of its day was.
Why?
show me?

Dude, did you go to school?

I don't mean to be rude, but...it's plain to me
that you don't have much formal education.
The way you type...the way you link...

once again your opinion mate, but follow the

scientific process if you want to claim such
knowledge, until you prove a point with facts,
not just i said so, its an opinion
have you ever shot a ballistic plate, how bout a
well constructed cuirass

Are you fucking kidding e?

why because i want you to prove your point
instead of taking your word for it

You're saying you want to abide by "the

scientific process," and yet you sent me links to
a couple of metal head losers who play D n D in
their basement and fire .22's at their lame
armour?

so by your admissions even "lame" armor can

stop a decent pistol round, not proving your
point very well
how is a steel ballistic plate made?

You are comparing apples and oranges. You

don't know what "ballistic plate" is. You don't
understand metallurgy. You're also so dumb
that in one breath you refer to "the scientific
method" and in the next, describe a "standard
rifle," with no concept of what caliber denotes.

and yet you have not offered one shred of

"proof"

...I'm sorry man, but you're a dumb person.

The problem being, you don't know the topic
well enough to know proof when you see it.
If you had shot half of these firearms or had
done any reading whatsoever, you wouldn't
need someone to build you a bibliography.
...it's a logic thing.
...you lack the ability to reason.

your logic is wrong

Dude, you're a fat, fucking imbecile.

i have seen both ballistic and medieval armor

shot with a variety of rounds, you have yet to
show me anything

How's this for logic:

Put on your best medieval breastplate.

back to the last bastion of defense of those not

well equipped to prove a point

Dude, the problem with talking with an ill-

educated person is having them understand
just how stupid they are. It's what you might
call...a paradox.
You're too stupid to understand how stupid
you are.
...bit of a catch twenty-two.

i have seen the tests, you have offered me

nothing except blind faith in your paradigm

Again, you revert between talking about pistols

to rifles in every message you make. You talk
about "standard rifles" and then refer to them
as 7.62's. What yardage are we talking about?
What are the variables? The controls, Mr.
Scientific Method?
What are the specific parameters?

i was allowing you to set most of the

parameters of the test, but it is clear from your
rather heated response that you got nothing

I talked to a moron like you last summer in

person.
...he was a lot like you, actually.
Overweight, with a niche interest.

is it so hard to offer the slightest shred of proof,

if it is something you know so well then you
should have it readily at hand
but you insist that you are right and when i
don't blindly accept your logic you resort to
name calling and insults, which does very little
to prove your point

What you fail to understand is that this is your

standard bar discussion. "Oh REALLY?" the
person inevitably says. "Well I sure would like
to see the statistics on that!" ...in truth, no they
wouldn't. No pie chart or similar table will
change their opinion, because the truth is, like
you, they are imbeciles.

You've "seen it" happen, you keep saying.

Logically, my showing you something where it
doesn't isn't going to undo you having seen it.

not looking for a pie chart, i even offered to

concede the field based upon the slimmest of
evidence, but you would rather throw a
tantrum and stomp your foot and say your
right

...that was an analogy, you idiot.

I wasn't offering you a pie chart.

you wanna talk metallurgy then tell me how a

ballistic plate is made, and how a cuirass is
made
no your not offering me anything

Look, were you lying about being in the

military or something?

show me some of that incredible knowledge

and wisdom you have

Because if you had any firearms experience,

you wouldn't be talking like such an idiot.
...with respect to firearms, anyway.
Did you finish high school?
still waiting
for anything, just a hint that you might be more
than bluster and talk behind a keyboard

You're in Illinois, huh?

still nothing

How's this: I'll draft a legal document and have

it notarized, okay? We'll both sign it. In this
document, you will agree to wear your BEST
cuirass / breastplate, okay? Tailored to the
specifications of the medieval. And you can
take your pick. I, on the other hand, will be
choosing my so-called "standard gun," okay? I
think I'll choose a .30-06.

Liking it so far?
Me being so sure of my position and you of
yours, surely you will have no problem with
this scientific method?
Actually, maybe we should rig a device so you
could fire at yourself.
You'd never do it.

in other words you got nothing, i'm bored of

this, come back and talk to me when you can
offer facts and reasonable discourse instead of i
said so so everyone should believe that its
common sense

In other words, I gave you everything but you are unfortunately too stupid to understand it.
"...ah, insults...the last bastion of---"
You have no education / no military / no firearms experience.
...none of any consequence.

i have yet to offer a single insult, but i would not expect you to understand any of that, have a nice day and i will eagerly
await your proof

You're merely a fat guy who reads comic books and thinks he knows what he's talking about. You've already proven
that you're a fucking idiot.

You have no knowledge of this topic.

I can't "prove" anything to an imbecile like yourself.

A gunnery sergeant would have no luck with you either.

It's like trying to explain a specific colour to a blind person - they have no point of reference.

"Mint green? Well...it's SORT of like HUNTER green? Know it?" "No, I'm blind." "Oh, right."
Anyway, you are really fucking dumb. In many years of talking with morons on the internet, you're a top-5 moron. Of that
you should be proud.