Full State Pension For Carers and Parents Who Stay at Home - Society - Guardian - Co.uk

Full state pension for carers and parents who stay at home | So... http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/12/full-state-pen...
Full state pension for carers and parents

who stay at home
Women are 'major winners' in reformed system at expense of
wealthier workers, increasing pension by average of 40 a week
Damien Pearse
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 12 May 2012 14.00 BST
Iain Duncan Smith says the new state pension system will be simpler than the current 'chaotic' one. Photograph: Dan
Kitwood/Getty Images
Mothers and carers who choose to stay at home instead of going out to work will receive
a full state pension for the first time under an overhaul of the UK's retirement system.
Under the reforms, mothers and carers who retire from 2015 will be treated as if they
had worked throughout their lives, giving them a flat-rate payment worth at least 140 a
week and leaving them 2,000 better off a year, on average, the work and pensions
secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, announced.
Currently, people who do not work for a full 30 years receive a reduced pension
entitlement for each year out of employment.
Duncan Smith told the Telegraph that the state second pension will be scrapped, a
1 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
measure that will hit wealthier workers. He defended the changes, saying they would
leave most workers better off and provide a far simpler system than the "chaotic"
currently in place.
"Nobody understands how it works," he said. "It acts as a major disincentive to save. It
penalises women, just for doing the most important thing in the world, which is to make
sure that their families [are cared for]."
The government will publish the full details of the pension reform in the coming weeks.
Duncan Smith said: "This is hugely beneficial for women who have a broken record of
employment. The really critical point is right now they don't get recognised in the
system. But under this system they could build up full points.
"So caring in itself will carry, for the first time ever, a value, and this will be of major
benefit to women. Women will be the biggest single beneficiaries from this programme,
massively."
The overall cost of the state pension will not rise, meaning other changes will be
implemented to fund the reform, said a Department for Work and Pensions
spokeswoman.
Presently, workers can choose to either opt in or out of the state second pension. If they
opt in and make National Insurance contributions for 30 years, they receive the basic
pension of 107.45 as well as their second pension, which can be worth more than 100
a week.
Those with company or private pensions can choose to opt out meaning that they and
their employers gain a discount on National Insurance. This saved money is currently
invested in their own pension schemes. The DWP spokeswoman confirmed that this
system would end.
Everyone will receive a higher pension of 140 a week, but people will not be able to opt
out, meaning wealthier employees could lose thousands of pounds each year.
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Comments
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AdamDixon Recommend? (22)

12 May 2012 2:09PM
Responses (0)
Trying to claw back some of the female vote are we Ian? Report
I think they would prefer a growing economy rather than a Clip | Link
double dip recession!
EqualButDifferent Recommend? (6)

12 May 2012 2:10PM
Responses (0)
Let me guess... Report
TORIES WANT TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN!!!??? ect.... Clip | Link
Armstrongx15 Recommend? (25)

12 May 2012 2:13PM
Responses (1)
The Tories are pissing their pants Report

So something needs to be bunged back Clip | Link
To be taken away somewhere else
stonecoldandmad Recommend? (31)

12 May 2012 2:14PM
Responses (1)
excuse me but many men are carers to, and so are many disabled Report
people, although i'm disable i care for my youngest son, he has Clip | Link
aspergers and learning difficulties. and he cares fo me. my
disabilties make it hard for me to to things that require mobilty,
3 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
he does all of the physical things, i do all the organising, etc. this
NoMoreRulingClass Recommend? (12)
is good news though,
12 May 2012but its an about time too kind of piece of
2:14PM
good news. carers save this country a fortune and we get treated Responses (0)
like
ooo rubbish.
look, something we can comment on. Free speech is a live Report
and well! lol Clip | Link
burningbush Recommend? (22)

12 May 2012 2:20PM
Responses (0)
Once again the Tory's show they REALLY do care! Report

Clip | Link
Only kidding I still think they are a bunch of profiteering trolls....
MrRational Recommend? (12)

12 May 2012 2:20PM
Responses (2)
Excellent news all round it will also save the Government money Report
in administration as well and it helps the poorest most. Good Clip | Link
sensible stuff.
Roma37 Recommend? (18)

12 May 2012 2:20PM
Responses (0)
They are not trying to get women's votes.... I doubt any of these Report
guys really care!! They have done the sums and this is all that Clip | Link
counts!!! ... Besides, even though for example (i am a woman,
single parent who will have contributed 30 years by the time I
reach 61 years old !!!).... I will not be able to claim my pension
until I am 66 years old (currently).. Once hit by unemployment
(and I have been in the last year.), I could be stuck in poverty for
YEARS waiting for the right to claim this pension.... despite the
fact that I have only 4 years (-) to go to reaching 61 now... it is
just ridiculous.
People started living longer because of improved working
conditions ... with this regime of competition, stress at work,
pressure of unemployment... life expectancy is going to reduce!
People wake up! I cannot understand why the English are so
conservative (and this applies if they vote for ANY of the main
4 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
parties) and not willing to embrace more radical politics ...

PorFavor Recommend? (18)
because ....
12 the
Mayfuture
2012 is looking very grim...
2:24PM
Responses (1)
Response to stonecoldandmad, 12 May 2012 2:14PM Report
"excuse me but many men are carers to" Clip | Link
The article does acknowledge that women are not the sole
beneficiaries - just the major beneficiaries.
It seems a good step that carers are to gain this sort of

recognition but I shall need to see the small print.
hacklesup Recommend? (18)

12 May 2012 2:25PM
Responses (1)
Response to MrRational, 12 May 2012 2:20PM Report
looking at your posting history I rather think that you are writing Clip | Link
from Tory HQ
this plan looks muddled and chaotic ....a reflection of the present
administration in fact
NOT a step in the right direction

12 May 2012 2:26PM
Responses (0)
Response to Armstrongx15, 12 May 2012 2:13PM Report
I've got a horrible feeling you're right. Clip | Link

12 May 2012 2:27PM
Responses (1)
I fear for my adult children when they reach retirement age , I Report
really do Clip | Link
and we have the oldest retirement age in Europe
Hollande has already signalled that it's back to 60 for those who
have completed 30 years
5 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM

12 May 2012 2:28PM
Responses (1)
Sorry folks Report
I just don't trust IDS Clip | Link
Icarntbelieveit Recommend? (24)

12 May 2012 2:29PM
Responses (0)
Have I misunderstood ? Report
Does this mean that the wives in a great many very well paid and Clip | Link
wealthy families will now benefit from a huge pension hike , just
after those same families probably benefited from a huge tax
windfall.
I wonder how many more ways the coalition can hung their
wealthy pals public funds and disguise it as benefiting the
common folk.
I would guess that a great many , if not a majority of women who

remain at home rather than work , do so because they can afford
to.
This sounds like an excuse to expand a universal benefit the

wealthy obtain whilst arguing for austerity everywhere else.
A little like Cameron seeking benefit cuts now he can no longer
claim DLA or a free ccar when his millionaire money could have
saved the state the cost of all his nose in the rough claims.
Maybe I misunderstood.

12 May 2012 2:31PM
Responses (1)
Response to hacklesup, 12 May 2012 2:25PM Report
Actually I am Green councillor but I suppose you need to be a Clip | Link

grown up to be able complement your poltical opponents.
Anyway it what we is the plan muddled and confused. Can you
provide some details and maybe we can have a rational debate?
6 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
nattybumpo Recommend? (8)

12 May 2012 2:33PM
Responses (1)
Response to PorFavor, 12 May 2012 2:24PM Report
I agree, the interests of carers has been ignored for far too long. Clip | Link
But surely the really decent thing to do would be to give them
more money now. Many people sacrifice large parts of their lives
working full time caring for loved ones and are paid a pittance
for doing so. Given that this saves the state a small fortune,
shouldn't we be paying them enough money to live on!
The money that carers get paid is an insult. Pay them more now!
HeedBlerk
12 May 2012 2:33PM
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't

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For more detail see our FAQs.

12 May 2012 2:34PM
Responses (1)
"I fear for my adult children when they reach retirement age , I Report
really do" Clip | Link
I fear that very few people in this country in the "real world" will
ever reach retirement age if this government gets its way. M
Holland has the right idea.
The (lazy shorthand here) increased leisure era, which should be

a reality, has been hijacked by the greedy..
Mark222 Recommend? (2)

12 May 2012 2:34PM
Responses (0)
A great move even though it sounds like something their Report

thinktanks thought up to regain votes. Clip | Link
7 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
PorFavor Recommend?
supertedward Recommend? (1)
(5)
12
12 May
May 2012
2012 2:35PM
2:35PM Responses
Responses (0)
(0)
Response to nattybumpo, 12 May 2012 2:33PM Report
Report
Genuine debate is done a disservice when people oppose the
party they don't favour as a matter of course. This seems like a
Agreed. Clip
Clip
|| Link
Link
great policy, is it too much to admit as such? Yes it can be better,
men can be carers too etc - but surely this is a start. Complaining
about everything regardless of the content is a regressive and
frankly boring way to be.
London3000 Recommend? (4)

12 May 2012 2:35PM
Responses (0)
Lower living costs, from homes, utility bills, food and clothing. Report
Then maybe just maybe you can create a sustainable economic Clip | Link
for all.
These plans show little value for the tax payer.
nattybumpo Recommend? (6)

12 May 2012 2:38PM
Responses (0)
The photo of him at the top of this piece does make him look like Clip | Link
a reject from the Muppet Show....
Sorry IDS, If want favourable comments then do the decent

thing... It's what you claimed you would do when you were in
opposition.......

12 May 2012 2:39PM
Responses (2)
helps the poorest ? Clip | Link
I think you would find that most poorly paid parents will have
both parents seeking to be employed for as many years as
possible.
Thus , any benefit to them is very hard to identify.
8 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
The real beneficiaries

CiggyStardust are the upper wage bracket where they can
Recommend? (11)
afford for12
stay
May at 2012
home2:41PM
parenting as a norm.
They are the demographic who are most likely to lack the Responses (1)
qualification
IDS could stand in years instreet
on the work.corner, handing out free ten pound Report
The majority
notes, and I'dof lowwant
still paidtofamilies will have,
know what by consequence
the catch was. of Clip | Link
dire need, sought to struggle to remain in work for far more than
('specially if he was wearing the slightly gormless expression he's
the qualifying period.
sporting in that photograph.)
Equally disabiility issuies allowed for NI credits to be allocated.
So again,
PorFavor
no gain for the poorer end there either . Recommend? (12)
12 May 2012 2:45PM
Looks a bit like PR bull that can be easily tarted up as a 'for the Responses (2)
people' stance , when in fact , examined properly it is a for the Report
Response to Icarntbelieveit, 12 May 2012 2:39PM
chosen-moneyed-and-privileged-fewer advantage.
Good point - in order to stay at home as a carer, you must, of Clip | Link
course, be able to afford to stay at home as a carer. This is
increasingly beyond the grasp of so many - and is deliberately,
made financially impossible through the benefits system (eg two,
three jobs now to reach the lowest hours required?)

12 May 2012 2:48PM
Responses (0)
Response to PorFavor, 12 May 2012 2:34PM Report
Sorry - just spotted that I missed off the 'e' at the end of M Clip | Link
Hollande's name. Typo, not ignorance, in this particular
instance!

12 May 2012 2:49PM
Responses (1)
Response to Icarntbelieveit, 12 May 2012 2:39PM Report
Well all carers regardless of gender who have had to look after Clip | Link
people all their lives without the opportunity to have much
employment will be welcoming this. They are some the poorest
in society but hey it doesn't fit in with your views so it must be
bad.
beauchampkid
9 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
12 May 2012 2:50PM Recommend?

ado16 Recommend? (4)
(8)
12 May 2012 2:52PM Responses
I think this could act as an incentive for people who should be Responses (0)
(0)
out working to stay at home. Yes, extend pension contributions Report
Report
Must be betting on quite a few more disabled people committing
to genuine carers looking after people
suicide then to pay for it. B*****d! with needs that go beyond Clip || Link
Clip Link
the ordinary, but not people who choose to spend their days
watching loose women and waiting for Asos to deliver while their
coffeetable Recommend? (8)
kids are at school. I think it will operate as a reward for those
12 May 2012 2:53PM
'without gumption' (to borrow the words of a fine ex leader). Responses (0)
So they bloody well should - pay women the same pension as Report
men. However, I hope no woman is going to be naive enough to Clip | Link
vote for the Tories on the basis of this naked attempt to woo
them. Keep focused on everything that they've been doing for the
last two years to erode gender equality and get women out of the
workforce. Raising the state pensions of women who haven't
been in the workforce is just one more way of trying to persuade
women to accept housewife status.

12 May 2012 2:54PM
Responses (1)
Actually I am Green councillor but I suppose you Clip | Link

need to be a grown up to be able compliment your
poltical opponents. Anyway it what we is the plan
muddled and confused. Can you provide some details
and maybe we can have a rational debate
for a start ,we can look at this comment from I an'tbelieveit
Does this mean that the wives in a great many very

well paid and wealthy families will now benefit from a
huge pension hike , just after those same families
probably benefited from a huge tax windfall
sandgrinder Recommend? (6)

12 May 2012 2:54PM
Responses (0)
10 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
ResponseMrRational
to CiggyStardust, 12 May 2012 2:41PM Report
Recommend? (3)
IDS12 Maystand
could 2012 2:57PM
on the street corner, handing out free Clip | Link
Responses (1)
ten pound notes, and I'd still want to know what the
Response
catchtowas.
PorFavor, 12 May 2012 2:45PM Report
Really? Clip | Link

You andNever heard of benefits for carers have you. It's not much
me both.
but in you view of the world all carers must be rich people who
He'd have to have done something dodgy to get them in the first
can afford the time. This may be the opposite of reality of course.
place.
If you are rich enough you pay someone to do it.
What's guaranteed is they wouldn't be his.
There's not a scintilla of Christian charity in the man.
DrGee Recommend? (5)
12 May 2012 2:57PM
Responses (0)
Would it be too much trouble for politicians to stop f**king Report

around with our pensions every few years? It's becoming Clip | Link
virtually impossible to know what can be expected upon
retirement, a date which seems to be moving off into the distant
horizon as well.
I suppose the proposal to offer carers a full pension will require

that people have to prove they were caring and for what period.
Sounds pretty complicated to me and open to abuse. Unless, of
course, it's a pension that everyone will get, carer or loafer.

12 May 2012 3:00PM
Responses (0)
Interesting yes indeed a few stay ay home rich wives who have Clip | Link
never worked may in fact benefit. That does not mean the main
benficiaries are not the poorest who will be the most welcoming
of this change.
CONSTANTINOPLE10 Recommend? (5)

12 May 2012 3:01PM
Responses (1)
well curious how they let us have free comment on" nice" stuff Report
like these while on other far more seroius stuff they don't. Clip | Link
11 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
philipwhiuk Recommend?
holierthanthou1 Recommend? (3)
(0)
12
12 May
May 2012
2012 3:03PM
3:04PM Responses
Responses (0)
(0)
IDS Report
Nowhas seemed
where did i one
put of theRope?
that betterHoney
Toriesi'm
in terms
off. of this stuff so Report
it's unsurprising he's fronting this one. Clip || Link
Clip Link
right2education Recommend? (5)

12 May 2012 3:08PM
Responses (0)
So hard working parents who both work and bring up their own Report
children are now made to pay for those often upper classes and Clip | Link
feckless who choose to stay at home.
Hard working parents or even couples are also penalised if one of

them falls ill for more than twelve months or one of them loses
their job and is unable to find another within six months.
IDS claimed it would pay to work yet all his policies so far like
Labour's punish those who do make the effort while rewarding
those who do not, except of course the mega rich who he throws
money at too. Tory party motto = reward non-work and mega
rich while shafting everyone else.
punders Recommend? (0)

12 May 2012 3:14PM
Responses (0)
the female vote Report

Clip | Link
bendyleopard Recommend? (3)

12 May 2012 3:17PM
Responses (0)
Carers who *choose* to stay at home? Report
Being a carer and being a housewife/husband/home-maker is Clip | Link

the same thing?
Welcome to planet IDS, where nothing makes sense.
TrinityX Recommend? (2)

12 May 2012 3:18PM
12 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
unprogressive Responses
Recommend?(0) (1)
Interesting. Laudable on the surface... but this is from the
12 May 2012 3:18PM Report
government who wants mothers to stay out of the workplace to Responses (0)
make Clip | Link
What jobs available
has been for husbands,
announced is a tax isn't it?
on company pensions. Report
Both employer and employee will lose out. Clip | Link
This policy is saying that doing the right thing and saving for old
age is to be discouraged, and that the State should be the only
provider of pensions.
Odd that a government that is meant to be encouraging people to
take responsibility is now penalising those who do.
And people call this government right wing!
This policy will destroy private pension provision, and make
millions of people dependent on the State.
This is a policy that will widen the gap further between private
and public sector pensions, will force most private schemes to
close, will stop people saving for old age and is utterly bonkers.
I expect a consultation, followed by a further listening exercise,
followed by yet another u-turn by a government that is proving
to be the most incompetent comedy act since Laurel and Hardy.
madasballoons Recommend? (3)

12 May 2012 3:20PM
Responses (0)
Smith is quite mad you know. Report

Clip | Link
lesmondo Recommend? (5)

12 May 2012 3:22PM
Responses (0)
this is one big con trick ,if you never work and don't contribute Report
nothing you will still get 138 now because pension credit will Clip | Link
take you to this .so the government will scrap pension credit, and
the extra 2 that takes you to 140 per week will disqualify you
from claiming council tax and rent rebate so you will be worse
off.
also all the public sector workers will be thousands worse off
because all public sector pensions opt out of the second pension .
so really we will all be worse off apart from the government they
must thing just because we don't have a private education that
13 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
we are allvercol
thick ,good try though IDS you noob
Recommend? (1)
12 May 2012 3:23PM
Responses (1)
What a miserable bunch of whingers. The Tories do something Report

nice for once and you still have to whine on. Clip | Link
holierthanthou1 Recommend? (0)

12 May 2012 3:24PM
Responses (0)
666,this is an announcement from pathetic control,it is our sad Report

duty to inform you ,that despite our greatest endeavourers we Clip | Link
decided we really don't give a shit,goodbye.

12 May 2012 3:25PM
Responses (0)
No, it doesn't fit in with what Smith tries to make it say on the Clip | Link
tin.
It could easily have been made to apply to those falling into a

wage earning bracket that was defined , and characterises the
fact they were lower paid and had no real choices, and assumed
the role of carer becuae they had to.
Thus, the measure could have sought to redress penalisation of
people who became carers and suffered for it.
Instead it seems to advocate the concept of universal benefits at

a time when they are saying austerity is the key.
Compensating the wealthier for a choice they could afford to
make is not a sensible measure in toimes when Austerity is the
key ( or efficiency as they are tryinmg to detoxify it now)
Yet, lo and behold. Still more money tossed at the richer end.
I am not criticising it because it opposes my view, in essence it

correlates with my views.
However, it is the little scam where someone will benefit because
family money , or privileged salary , will mean they will benefit
for having , by affordabnle CHOICE, spent their children's
years driving the runabout rangerover on the school run.
14 of 15 5/12/12 4:52 PM
So much bendyleopard
for austerity. They carry on tossing money at those who
Recommend? (2)
do n ot need it and
12 May use3:25PM
2012 those who do as the alibi.
Responses (0)
The people you use as a tool in your post can be served by this ,
Response to PorFavor, 12itMay 2012 2:45PM Report
just as those not needing could be excluded.
IAre
have
youseen no signcarer
conflating that is seen
with as the way they wish to proceed.
parent? Clip | Link
I think
Just thatyou really
most characterise
carers the stance
(as in caring that itpeople)
for disabled does fitarent
in with
your view
doing so it is they
it because ok. are wealthy enough to be able to stay at
home. Paying for outside carers to come in is beyond the
financial reach of most folks-its VERY expensive.
They have to care full time and get the princely sum of 58 quid.
I do agree with you though, if you mean a parent doing childcare,

it is really difficult for most families to afford to live on 1 salary
these days.
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Full state pension for carers and parents

Expats Insurance Specialists! 100k international clients in Spain

AdamDixon Recommend? (22)

EqualButDifferent Recommend? (6)

Let me guess... Report

TORIES WANT TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN!!!??? ect.... Clip | Link

Armstrongx15 Recommend? (25)

The Tories are pissing their pants Report

stonecoldandmad Recommend? (31)

burningbush Recommend? (22)

Once again the Tory's show they REALLY do care! Report

MrRational Recommend? (12)

Roma37 Recommend? (18)

parties) and not willing to embrace more radical politics ...

Response to stonecoldandmad, 12 May 2012 2:14PM Report

"excuse me but many men are carers to" Clip | Link

It seems a good step that carers are to gain this sort of

hacklesup Recommend? (18)

Response to MrRational, 12 May 2012 2:20PM Report

NOT a step in the right direction

PorFavor Recommend? (5)

Response to Armstrongx15, 12 May 2012 2:13PM Report

I've got a horrible feeling you're right. Clip | Link

hacklesup Recommend? (18)

hacklesup Recommend? (22)

Sorry folks Report

I just don't trust IDS Clip | Link

Icarntbelieveit Recommend? (24)

Have I misunderstood ? Report

I would guess that a great many , if not a majority of women who

This sounds like an excuse to expand a universal benefit the

MrRational Recommend? (3)

Response to hacklesup, 12 May 2012 2:25PM Report

Actually I am Green councillor but I suppose you need to be a Clip | Link

nattybumpo Recommend? (8)

Response to PorFavor, 12 May 2012 2:24PM Report

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't

PorFavor Recommend? (12)

The (lazy shorthand here) increased leisure era, which should be

Mark222 Recommend? (2)

A great move even though it sounds like something their Report

London3000 Recommend? (4)

nattybumpo Recommend? (6)

Response to hacklesup, 12 May 2012 2:28PM Report

Sorry IDS, If want favourable comments then do the decent

Icarntbelieveit Recommend? (20)

Response to MrRational, 12 May 2012 2:20PM Report

helps the poorest ? Clip | Link

The real beneficiaries

PorFavor Recommend? (1)

Response to PorFavor, 12 May 2012 2:34PM Report

MrRational Recommend? (5)

Response to Icarntbelieveit, 12 May 2012 2:39PM Report

12 May 2012 2:50PM Recommend?

hacklesup Recommend? (6)

Response to MrRational, 12 May 2012 2:31PM Report

Actually I am Green councillor but I suppose you Clip | Link

for a start ,we can look at this comment from I an'tbelieveit

Does this mean that the wives in a great many very

sandgrinder Recommend? (6)

Really? Clip | Link

Would it be too much trouble for politicians to stop f**king Report

Carers who choose to stay at home? Report