U.S.

Department of Justice investigation into the mental health

screening imposed by the Florida Supreme Court on bar applicants.

U.S. Dept. of Justice Robert A. Burgoyne, Esq. FL Board Bar Examiners

A FOIA response May 18, 2017 confirms a U.S. Department of Justice investigation into the
mental health screening imposed by the Florida Supreme Court on bar applicants. Nelson D.
Hermilla, Chief, Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts Branch, Civil Rights Division, wrote,

Dear Mr. Gillespie:

This is in response to your April 29, 2015 Freedom of Information Act request, received
by the Civil Rights Division, seeking access to records on the U.S. Department of Justice
investigation into the mental health screening imposed by the Florida Supreme Court on
bar applicants.

The records you have requested pertain to an ongoing law enforcement proceeding. After
consideration of the responsive records, I have determined that access to the documents
should be denied pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(7)(A), since disclosure thereof could
reasonably be expected to interfere with law enforcement proceedings. I have further
determined that certain information within these records that is exempt from disclosure
pursuant to 5 U.S.C.552(b)(7)(A) should also be denied pursuant to 5 U.S.C.
552(b)(5), since the records consist of attorney work product and include intra-agency
memoranda containing pre-decisional, deliberative material; and 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(7)(C)
since disclosure of information contained in these records could reasonably be expected
to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy...

The Florida Board of Bar Examiners (FBBE) https://www.floridabarexam.org/

The FBBE 2015-16 proposed budget cites a "federal investigation" and a $100,000 increase in
attorneys fees: "This is primarily due to the increase in attorney fees with regard to the federal
investigation by $100K". (Page 14). "Bob Burgoyne of Norton Rose Fulbright has been retained
to represent the board in the federal investigation." (Page 41)

FBBE 2015-16 proposed budget (82 pages): https://www.scribd.com/document/308326151/

This Press Release: https://www.scribd.com/document/353820938/
 u.s. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division

Freedom ofInformation/Privacy Acts Branch - BICN

NDH:ANF:AKL 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
15-00439-F Washington, DC 20530

Mr. Neil J. Gillespie

8092 SW 115th Loop
Ocala, FL 34481 MAY 18 2011

Dear Mr. Gillespie:

This is in response to your April 29, 2015 Freedom of Information Act request, received
by the Civil Rights Division, seeking access to records on the U.S. Department of Justice
investigation into the mental health screening imposed by the Florida Supreme Court on bar
applicants.

The records you have requested pertain to an ongoing law enforcement proceeding. After
consideration of the responsive records, I have determined that access to the documents should
be denied pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(7)(A), since disclosure thereof could reasonably be
expected to interfere with law enforcement proceedings. I have further determined that certain
information within these records that is exempt from disclosure pursuant to 5
U.S.C.552(b)(7)(A) should also be denied pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(5), since the records
consist of attorney work product and include intra-agency memoranda containing pre-decisional,
deliberative material; and 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(7)(C) since disclosure of information contained in
these records could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal
prIvacy.

You may resubmit your request once the Justice Department has closed this matter, and
we will be happy to provide you with any documents that may be released which will not
jeopardize the Department's currently active enforcement interest in this matter.

If you are not satisfied with my response to this request, you may administratively appeal
by writing to the Director, Office of Information Policy (OIP), United States Department of
Justice, Suite 11050, 1425 New York Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20530-0001, or you may
submit an appeal through OIP's FOIAonline portal by creating an account on the following web
site: https://foiaonline.regulations.gov/foia/action/public/home. Your appeal must be
postmarked or electronically transn1itted within 90 days of the date of my response to your
request. If you submit your appeal by mail, both the letter and the envelope should be clearly
marked "Freedom of Information Act Appeal."

Sincerely,

;V---irdh ::p, ~(/t/~~

Nelson D. Hermilla, Chief

Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts Branch

Civil Rights Division

 jfloriba fjoarb of fjar <!examiners

ADMINISTRATIVE BOARD OF THE SUPREME COURT OF FLORIDA

DARYL M. MANNING TIPPIN-MOORE BUILDING

CHAIR 1891 EIDER COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32399-1750
GREGORY A. HEARING
VICE CHAIR
(850) 487-1292
MEMBERS
NANCY MCCLAIN ALFONSO
SCOTT L. BAENA
DONNA E. BLANTON
MARK R. FRIED
MICHELE A. GAVAGNI
DAVID C. LYLES
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
MILES A. MCGRANE Ill
BARBARA J. PITTMAN
ROBERT G. BLYTHE
KENNETH D. PRATT
ERAL COUNSEL
SCOTT N. RICHARDSON
JANET M. SERMON
VICTORIA VILCHEZ
TARA L. NEWMAN
ELIZABETH J. WALTERS
PETER L. WECHSLER DIRECTOR OF ADMINISTRATION
June 10, 2015

The Honorable R. Fred Lewis

Justice
The Supreme Court of Florida
500 South Duval Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1925

Dear Justice Lewis:

Enclosed for review and approval by the Supreme Court are nine copies of the Board's
proposed budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2015. The Board approved the budget
on June 5, 2015 during the annual policy session.

Revised budget estimates for the current fiscal year 2014-15 plan for income to exceed
expenses by $281 K including capital expenditures totaling $179K.

For fiscal year 2015-16, income is expected to exceed expenses by $30K including capital
expenditures planned at $72K.

I believe the Summary of Recommended Budget at Tab 1 is an accurate and concise

description of the budget.

The chair of the board, Lt. Colonel Manning and/or I would be pleased to respond in writing or
in person to any questions that you and the other members of the Court may have regarding the
budget.

Most respectfully yours,

--
-~--

Michele A. Gavagni
Executive Director
 ~j
i
Capital Expenditures 2015-16
. .
For 2015-16 plan on spending $71,916 on capital expenditures. Capital expenditures greater
than $10K are detailed below. See account 77000 for all Capital expenditures.
-~ j
Plan $24,550 for a one-time software license purchase for digital access to applicant credit :rj,
l .. :
report data, which would allow the data to be imported directly into a Notes database, allowing I

the credit report to be electronically attached to applicant files. The annual licensing costs
..,.r. J i
after the initial purchase would approximately $3, 000 beginning in 2016-17. :L i

Plan $12,865 for surveillance camera/video equipment to be installed. The plan is for a total of
7 'cameras to be installed, 2 inside the building and 5 outside the building. The 2 inside
cameras would be located in the lobby and the secure room. The 5 outside cameras would be
:~ 1
located at the east entrance door, the west entrance door, the main entrance door and 2 to
cover the back of the building. This will provide additional monitoring and security for the office :;j
and staff.

Plan $18,400 for 2 A/C condenser units. Due to the age of the equipment, and the Florida
code regulating the replacement of A/C units, anticipate 2 units being replaced per year as
~1
needed. ri
.L J
Professional Fees
:Ir 1
This account is planned to increase over the current fiscal year by $124K. This is primarily due ;L
to the increase in attorney fees with regard to the federal investigation by $1 OOK.

BUDGET INCOME ~1
Investment Income
:[ j
The board adopted a new Investment Policy Statement and investment strategy with SunTrust
Foundations and Endowments Specialty Practice, effective July 20.13. The Investment Policy
Statement provides for a diversified structure and asset allocation to the board's investment ' 1 ~
portfolio which will produce a rate of return that may help delay the need for future fee
increases for the applicants beyond the 5-year cycle anticipated with the last fee increase, r l I

which went into effect in July 2010. Anticipate investment income based on a conservative , I :
l j i

average portfolio rate of 3.0% for next year.

'' J 'i
The portfolio is divided into two accounts, a short term account that makes up approximately L .
10% of the total portfolio and a long term account that makes up the remaining 90% of the
portfolio. f 1i
lj
The short term account is funded with investments that can quickly be liquidated to fund the
reserve accounts established by the board in the event of a disaster or emergency. These
investments have short term maturity dates and on average they produce less than 1% annual
percentage yield. I

: 1i
ij
'l'
l j
6
 2014-15 2015-16
Now that we are full strength, it is anticipated that the Office of General.
Counsel will be able to handle all future formal hearings and drafting
documents without assistance from outside counsel barring exceptional
!1 circumstances. Through 03/31/15, $0 has ,been paid for services rendered.
ll
Estimate $0 for the remainder of the current fiscal year with an overall
11 expenditure of $0.
lj
For next fiscal year, we estimate that outside counsel will not be used to
handle formal hearings.

Year Total 6Mo

11-12 20,130 0
r] 12-13 0 0
l
13-14 28,725 9,863
*14-15 0 0
[J *15-16 0

2014-15 hold level 0

2015-16 estimate 0
Legal Assistance for Out-of-State Depositions
Occasionally, out-of-state attorneys are used for legal services (such as
talcing depositions) to assist the Office of General Counsel in preparing for
fl a formal hearing. Through 03/31/15, $0 has been paid for services
lj rendered.

r1 Estimate $2,000 for the remainder of the year with an overall expenditure
ll of $2,000.

[ J For next fiscal year, estimate $2,000 for legal fees by attorneys as needed
Ll for out-of-state depositions.

r1 Year Total 6Mo

lj 11-12 0 0
12-13 0 0
13-14 0 0
*14-15 2,000 0
*15-16 2,000\ 0

2014-15 decrease from 4,000 based on 6 month level 2,000

2015-16 estimate 2,000
:Jl
l
Acct. #63020 - Litigation Expense
The Board relies upon James Dean of the law firm of Messer, Caparello &
[J Self to handle litigation matters when the Board is a party to a suit filed in
state or federal court and Robert Larkin of Allen, Norton & Blue, P.A. to
handle employment litigation matters. Bob Burgoyne of Norton Rose
Fulbright has been retained to represent the board m the federal
investigation.

5
 http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/people/90775/robertaburgoyne

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Washington, DC
T:+1 202 662 4513

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Related services
Commercial litigation
Employment and labor
Energy disputes
Dispute resolution and litigation

Key industry sectors

Energy
Financial institutions
Infrastructure, mining and commodities
Life sciences and healthcare

Bob Burgoyne has been an attorney in the Washington, D.C. office since 1982 and a partner since
1991. Bob provides general counseling to clients on a broad range of issues, and he handles complex
civil litigation in federal and state courts across the country at both the trial and appellate levels. His

7/15/2017 12:16 AM
 http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/people/90775/robertaburgoyne

litigation has included antitrust claims, copyright infringement disputes, APA challenges to federal
regulatory action, accreditation-related disputes, disputes involving higher education, disputes relating to
the administration of standardized tests, government contract appeals, discrimination and other
employment-related claims, claims under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), loan and other
commercial contract disputes, and disputes under long-term fuel supply contracts, particularly long-term
coal contracts. He has participated in rulemaking proceedings before federal agencies and has
represented clients who are the subject of federal and state agency investigations.

In addition to handling litigation, Bob regularly assists clients on issues relating to regulatory compliance;
employment matters; negotiating and drafting contracts, including contracts relating to strategic joint
ventures; and preparing and implementing organizational policies.

Education
1982 - J.D., cum laude, University of North Carolina
1978 - B.A., summa cum laude, Philosophy, Ohio Wesleyan University

Note and Comment Editor, North Carolina Law Review.

Bob was admitted to practice law in the District of Columbia in 1982 and in Pennsylvania in 1996.
He is admitted to practice before the United States Supreme Court; the U.S. Courts of Appeals for
the District of Columbia Circuit, Second Circuit, Third Circuit, Fourth Circuit, Fifth Circuit, Seventh
Circuit, Ninth Circuit and Tenth Circuit; the U.S. District Court, District of Columbia; and the local
District of Columbia courts.

Representative experience
Bob's representations include:
An association in a nationwide antitrust class action lawsuit involving graduate medical
education; the case was dismissed as to all defendants and the dismissal was affirmed on
appeal
An oil and gas producer in a multi-defendant case alleging an antitrust conspiracy to
increase the price of natural gas; summary judgment was granted for the defendants
A standardized testing organization in a copyright infringement lawsuit against a test
preparation company; the organization prevailed following trial and was awarded more than
$10 million in damages plus attorneys' fees and costs
Defendant investors in a multi-party lawsuit involving a failed telecommunications system in
which a syndication of banks was seeking hundreds of millions of dollars in damages
A foreign sovereign in litigation brought against the sovereign in the United States, with
billions of dollars in potential liability at issue; the sovereign prevailed in a unanimous
decision by the United States Supreme Court
A company in connection with an intellectual property lawsuit in Beijing, China; the case was
decided in favor of the company and its co-plaintiff in both the lower court and on appeal to
the Beijing High Court
Various organizations in lawsuits involving internet-based copyright infringements

7/15/2017 12:16 AM
 http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/people/90775/robertaburgoyne

Two multilateral lending institutions in a lawsuit involving a failed road concession in South
America
A mining venture in litigation with two utilities that attempted to get out of a long-term
(25-year) lignite mining contract and to recover substantial monetary damages; the venture
prevailed in the trial of certain issues and obtained partial summary judgment on others,
following which the case settled
A multilateral lending institution in connection with an arbitration proceeding involving a
power project loan default
A multilateral lending institution in a lawsuit involving the sale of distressed debt
A company in a non-compete and misappropriation of trade secrets lawsuit against a former
employee
A large coal producer in various cases involving long-term coal supply contracts and
significant dollar amounts; in all of the cases, the courts ruled in favor of the producer
A company in its appeal of a jury verdict involving an employee terminated for violating the
company's drug policy; the verdict was overturned on appeal and judgment was entered for
the company
A quick-service restaurant chain in a lawsuit seeking specific performance of a commercial
property contract of sale
An organization in a "pattern and practice" discrimination lawsuit brought by the United
States Department of Justice under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA); the case was
favorably resolved by way of a settlement that included dismissal of the lawsuit
An association in two cases brought by a law school that was denied accreditation; the
school asserted antitrust and state law claims; summary judgment was entered for the
association and affirmed on appeal
A university in litigation involving an NCAA eligibility rule
A university in litigation involving an insurance coverage dispute
A university in litigation brought by a professor
A university in litigation involving ADA compliance
A state licensure entity in connection with an investigation by the United States Department
of Justice alleging ADA violations
Numerous nonprofit testing entities in connection with ADA-related investigations by the
United States Department of Justice
Various higher education and health care organizations in an amicus brief to the United
States Supreme Court involving diversity as an admissions factor

Admissions
Washington D.C. Bar License

Rankings and recognitions

Fellow, Litigation Counsel of America
Chambers USA Leading Individual, Washington, DC: Commercial Litigation, Chambers and
Partner, 2009 - 2013

7/15/2017 12:16 AM
 http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/people/90775/robertaburgoyne

Washington, DC & Baltimore's Top Rated Lawyers, LexisNexis Martindale-Hubbell, 2012

-2013

Publications
"State-Action Antitrust Immunity in the Wake of North Carolina State Board of Dental
Examiners v. Federal Trade Commission: What Does It Mean For State Bars And Bar
Examiners?" The Bar Examiner , June 2015
"Handbook on Diversity and the Law: Navigating a Complex Landscape to Foster Greater
Faculty and Student Diversity in Higher Education," published by the American Association
for the Advancement of Science, with participation by the Association of American
Universities (co-author), 2010
"ADA Update: The Status of Eleventh Amendment Immunity and the Rooker-Feldman
Doctrine as Defenses to Claims Asserted Against Bar Examiners Under the ADA," The Bar
Examiner, August 2007
"'Global Warming' Litigation," Fulbright & Jaworski LLP Litigation Update, October 2005
"Supreme Court Clarifies the Meaning of 'Disabled' for Purposes of the ADA," The Bar
Examiner, February 2002
"Understanding Attorney - Client Privilege Issues in the College and University Setting,"
NACUA Monograph, 1998
"The Copyright Remedy Clarification Act of 1990: State Educational Institutions Now Face
Significant Monetary Exposure for Copyright Infringement," Journal of College and
University Law, 1992
"Criminal Prosecutions Initiated by Administrative Agencies: The FDA, the Accardi Doctrine
and the Requirement of Consistent Agency Treatment," Journal of Criminal Law and
Criminology, 1987

Speaking engagements
Bob has spoken at numerous national conferences on topics that relate to standardized testing
and higher education, commercial litigation, and statutory compliance issues. He has also given
numerous in-house presentations to clients and to the Boards of Directors of clients.

Memberships and activities

National Association of College and University Attorneys (NACUA)
Board Member, Wakefield School, The Plains, Virginia (2002-2010)

Board Member, Community Association (2008-2014)

7/15/2017 12:16 AM
 u.s. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division

NDH:TAW Freedom oflriformationlPrlvacy Acts Branch -BIeN

950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20530

Mr. Neil J. Gillespie

8092 SW 115th Loop
Ocala, FL 34481

Date Received: May 11,2015 FOI/PA No.15-00439-F

Subject of Request: Information pertaining to the U.S. Department of Justice investigation into
the mental health screening imposed by the Florida Supreme Court on bar
applicants.

Dear Mr. Gillespie:

. This is to inform you that your request for records from the files of the Civil Rights
Division was received. by tIle Division's Freedom of InfonnationlPrivacy Acts (FOI/PA) Branch
on the date indicated above. Your request has been assigned the FOIIPA number shown above.
Please refer to this number in any future correspondence concerning this request. In connection
with review of your FOIIPA request, the following paragraph(s) are applicable:

111 searching its file for records responsive to your request, _

located records that originated with the Civil Rights Division. These records were
referred to the Civil Rights Division as the originating component for review and release
determination, Upon completion of our review, the releasable document(s) will be sent
directly to you.

XX As a result of the large number of Freedom of Information and Privacy Acts requests
received by the Civil Rights Division, some delay may be encountered in processing your
request. In an attempt to treat each requester fairly, we have adopted a policy of
processing requests in the approximate order of receipt. Please be assured that your
request is being handled as equitably as possible. We appreciate your patience and will
provide you with a response at the earliest possible date.
 Please note that the Civil Rights Division utilizes multi-track processing in which
processing ranges from faster tracks for requests (seeking access to documents already
processed for prior requests) to much slower tracks for complex requests involving
voluminous amounts of responsive documents or extensive consultation. At your option,
you may wish to call the number below and limit the scope of your request to enable your
request to be handled in the most expeditious manner available to fulfill your interests.

Since your letter did not include authorization or a certification of identity, we will close
your fue for now. We will re-open your request on receipt of the required authorization
forms. The Privacy Act, and the Department of Justice Privacy Act regulation, 28 C.F.R.
16.41, require each person requesting records indexed or maintained under his or her
name or another person's name, to furnish the Department with proof of identity/consent
to disclosure.. Please complete the enclosed fonn and return it directly to the Freedom of
Information/Privacy Acts Branch, Civil Rights Division, US Department of Justice,
Washington, D.C. 20530.

Should you wish to appeal the identification/consent requirement, you may do so by

writing to the Director, Office of Information Policy (OIP), United States Department of Justice,
1425 New York Avenue, N.W. Building, Suite 11050, Washington, D.C. 20530. Your appeal
must be received by alP withil1 sixty (60) days from the date of this letter in order to be
considered timely.. The envelope should be marked nFOIIP A AppeaL II You may also submit
your appeal via DIP's electronic portal (at http://www.justice.gov/oip/efoiawportaI.html).
Following review by the Department, judicial review of the decision of the Attorney General is
available in the United States District Court in the judicial district in which you reside, in which
you have your principal place of business, or in the District of Columbia.

If you have any further questions, contact this office by calling (202) 514-4210.

Nelson D. Hennilla, Chief

Freedom of InformationIPrivacy Acts Branch

Civil Rights Division

VIA Email: CRT.FOIArequests@usdoj.gov April 28, 2015

Nelson Hermilla, Chief

FOIA/PA Branch
U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
FOIA/PA Branch, Room 3234
Washington, D.C. 20530
Tel. (202) 514-4210

RE: Freedom of Information Act Request (FOIA)

Dear Chief Hermilla:

This is a Freedom of Information Act Request (FOIA) for a DOJ letter of December 2014.

The Daily Business Review reported the U.S. Department of Justice is investigating the mental-
health screening imposed by the Florida Supreme Court on bar applicants. In a December letter,
the DOJ notified Chief Justice Jorge Labarga of the probe and asked for information about the
mental-health questions posed to applicants, conditional admission procedures and whether
hearings were held concerning those for whom medical records are requested

http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/home/id=1202721703206/Justice-Department-
Investigates-Florida-Supreme-Court-on-Bar-Mental-Health-Screening

I request a fee waiver because I am indigent. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Neil J. Gillespie
8092 SW 115th Loop
Ocala, Florida 34481
Tel. (352) 854-7807
Email: neilgillespie@mfi.net
 http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/report_doj_is_investigating_mental_health_screening_of_bar_applicants_by_fl/

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Home / Daily News / Report: DOJ is investigating mental-health

DISABILITY LAW

POSTED MAR 26, 2015 04:20 PM CDT

BY MARTHA NEIL (HTTP://WWW.ABAJOURNAL.COM/AUTHORS/5/)
The U.S. Department of Justice is investigating the mental-health screening imposed by the Florida
Supreme Court on bar applicants.
In a December letter, the DOJ notified Chief Justice Jorge Labarga of the probe and asked for
information about the mental-health questions posed to applicants, conditional admission procedures
and whether hearings were held concerning those for whom medical records are requested, reports the
Daily Business Review (http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/home/id=1202721703206/Justice-Department-Investigates-Florida-
Supreme-Court-on-Bar-Mental-Health-Screening?mcode=1202617074542&curindex=5&back=GA&slreturn=20150226170134) (sub. req.).

A Florida Supreme Court spokesman declined comment but Greg Coleman, who serves as president
of the Florida Bar, told the legal publication the Board of Bar Examiners is pondering potential changes
in its questions.
This has to be decided on a case-by-case basis, he said. There is no broad brush. Its a complicated
area because theres a balance that must be struck between looking at someones background and
deciding whether they are a threat in becoming a lawyer.
See also:
ABA Journal (http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/state_bars_may_probe_applicants_behavior_but_not_mental_health_status):
State bars may probe applicants behavior, but not mental health status, says DOJ
ABAJournal.com (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/louisiana_settles_ada_probe_by_feds_over_mental-
health_questions_on_bar_app): Louisiana Supreme Court settles ADA probe by DOJ over mental-health
queries on bar application

Copyright 2017 American Bar Association. All rights reserved.

 http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_prof_confesses_i_am_a_sociopath/

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Home / Daily News / Law prof confesses: I am a sociopath

LAW PROFESSORS

POSTED MAY 17, 2013 01:11 PM CDT

BY DEBRA CASSENS WEISS (HTTP://WWW.ABAJOURNAL.COM/AUTHORS/4/)
Corrected: Could this have been written by one of your law
professors? Remorse is alien to me. I have a penchant for deceit.
I am generally free of entangling and irrational emotions. I am
strategic and canny, intelligent and confident, but I also struggle to
react appropriately to other peoples confusing and emotion-driven
social cues.
The paragraph is published in a Psychology Today
article by an
(http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath)
author who says she is a law professor and a diagnosed
sociopath. Above the Law (http://abovethelaw.com/2013/05/sociopath-
law-professor-admits-to-being-a-sociopath/#more-245084) notes the truly chilling
article, but blogger Elie Mystal opts to turn the snark meter way
down on this post because, well, I dont want to be murdered.
The article is adapted from a memoir released on May 14, called
Cover of Confessions of a Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight,
Sociopath, written under the pseudonym M. E. Thomas.
published May 14.
Thomas writes that she has never murdered anyone (though she
certainly wanted to), nor has she spent time in jail. She is a
Sunday school teacher in a church that teaches it is actions, rather than thoughts, that count.
She admits to good actions, such as buying a house for her closest friend, as well as bad,
including setting up a rival for disappointment in a relationship and beating a childhood friend.
Before becoming a trial lawyer, the author says she prosecuted misdemeanors in the District
Attorneys office and was an associate in a law firm. My sociopathic traits make me a particularly
excellent trial lawyer, Thomas writes. Im cool under pressure. I feel no guilt or compunction,
which is handy in such a dirty business. Misdemeanor prosecutors almost always have to walk
into a trial with cases theyve never worked on before. All you can do is bluff and hope that youll
be able to scramble through it. The thing with sociopaths is that we are largely unaffected by fear.
 http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_prof_confesses_i_am_a_sociopath/

Besides, the nature of the crime is of no moral concern to me; I am interested only in winning the
legal game.
Thomas says she was not a victim of child abuse, though she grew up in a family with a violent
father and an indifferent, sometimes hysterical, mother. I loathed my father. He was
phenomenally unreliable as a breadwinner, and we often came home to find the power shut off
because we were months behind in our electricity bill. He spent thousands of dollars on
expensive hobbies, while we were bringing oranges from our backyard to school for lunch. The
first recurring dream I can remember was about killing him with my bare hands.
Edited at 5:43 p.m. to correct the title of the book, which was an editors mistake.

Copyright 2017 American Bar Association. All rights reserved.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath
 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

invitation. I m the sort of date you would love to take to your ex s weddingfun, exciting, the perfect
 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

you that they otherwise wouldn t? Some might call it manipulation, but I like to think I m using what
 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

that I associated with childhood (https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/child-development)

 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

she retreated to when my father punched things. The doctor questioned: If you felt pain, what have
https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath
 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

but she was clumsy with itheavy-handed in certain circumstances and a pushover in others. She
 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

predilections, the same pet peeves, and the same style of distracted, quasi-formal communication. In
https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath
 https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

$10,000, and I am considered a helpful professor. I love my family and friends. Yet I am not
 http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/the_legal_field_attracts_psychopaths_author_says_not_that_there_is_anything/

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Home / Daily News / The Legal Field Attracts Psychopaths, Author

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POSTED NOV 13, 2012 11:30 AM CST

BY DEBRA CASSENS WEISS (HTTP://WWW.ABAJOURNAL.COM/AUTHORS/4/)
CEOs and lawyers are among the professions with the most
psychopathsevidence that psychopathic traits arent all bad,
according to a new book by an Oxford research psychologist.
The book is The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What saints, spies and
serial killers can teach us about success. The Washington Post
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-wisdom-of-psychopaths-what-saints-spies-
and-serial-killers-can-teach-us-about-success-by-kevin-dutton/2012/11/09/23d86a1e-
2360-11e2-ba29-238a6ac36a08_story.html) and the Wall Street Journal
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203846804578100812431855282.html)
have reviews.
Its a matter of degree, author Kevin Dutton argues in the book. At
Courtesy of Scientific the high end of the scale are serial killers like Ted Bundy. But
American / some psychopathic traits can pave the way to success and help
Farrar, Straus & people deal with the stresses of living, Dutton says. His Seven
Giroux. Deadly Wins are ruthlessness, charm, focus, mental toughness,
fearlessness, mindfulness and action.
Dutton says some professions attract people with psychopathic tendencies, and lawyers
are second on the list. The Post quotes one successful lawyer who spoke to Dutton. Deep
inside me theres a serial killer lurking somewhere, the lawyer says. But I keep him
amused with cocaine, Formula One, booty calls, and coruscating cross-examination.
Dutton developed his list of the top psychopathic professions through an online survey last
year, he told Smithsonian.com (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/The-Pros-to-Being-a-Psychopath-
176019901.html?c=y&page=1) in an interview. Any situation where youve a got a power structure,
 http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/the_legal_field_attracts_psychopaths_author_says_not_that_there_is_anything/

a hierarchy, the ability to manipulate or wield control over people, you get psychopaths
doing very well, Dutton said.
Digital Spy (http://www.digitalspy.com/odd/news/a437450/professions-with-most-psychopaths-revealed-lawyers-
journalists.html) listed Duttons top 10 most psychopathic professions:

1) CEO
2) Lawyer
3) Media (TV/radio)
4) Salesperson
5) Surgeon
6) Journalist
7) Police officer
8) Clergyperson
9) Chef
10) Civil servant

Copyright 2017 American Bar Association. All rights reserved.

 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-pros-to-being-a-psychopath-96723962/?c=y&page=1

No
According to author Kevin Dutton, psychopaths have a distinct set of personality characteristics.
Pictured is Anthony Perkins as Norman Bates in Psycho. (Photo by: Mary Evans / UNIVERSAL
PICTURES / Ronald Grant / Everett Collection)

By Amy Crawford
smithsonian.com
October 28, 2012

When most of us hear the word psychopath, we imagine Hannibal Lecter. Kevin Dutton would prefer that we
think of brain surgeons, CEOs and Buddhist monks. In his new book, The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints,
Spies and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success, the Oxford research psychologist argues that psychopathic
personality traitscharm, confidence, ruthlessness, coolness under pressurecan, in the right doses, be a good
thing. Not all psychopaths are violent, he says, and some of them are just the sort of people society can count on in
a crisis.

To further his psychopathic studies, Dutton is seeking participants for his Great American Psychopath Survey,
which he says will reveal the most psychopathic states, cities and professions in the United States. Try it for
yourself at wisdomofpsychopaths.com.

Psychopath is a term that gets thrown about a lot in our culture. Are psychopaths misunderstood?

Its true, no sooner is the word psychopath out than images of your classic psychopathic killers like Ted Bundy
and Jeffrey Dahmer and a whole kind of discreditable raft of senior politicians come kind of creeping across our
minds. But actually, being a psychopath doesnt mean that youre a criminal. Not by default, anyway. It doesnt
mean that youre a serial killer, either.

One of the reasons why I wrote the book in the first place was to debunk two deep-seated myths that the general
public have about psychopaths. Firstly, that theyre either all mad or bad. And secondly, that psychopathy is an
all-or-nothing thing, that youre either a psychopath or youre not.

What is a psychopath, anyway?

When psychologists talk about psychopaths, what were referring to are people who have a distinct set of
personality characteristics, which include things like ruthlessness, fearlessness, mental toughness, charm,
persuasiveness and a lack of conscience and empathy. Imagine that you tick the box for all of those characteristics.
You also happen to be violent and stupid. Its not going to be long before you smack a bottle over someones head
in a bar and get locked up for a long time in prison. But if you tick the box for all of those characteristics, and you
happen to be intelligent and not naturally violent, then its a different story altogether. Then youre more likely to
make a killing in the market rather than anywhere else.

How are these psychopathic traits particularly useful in modern society?

Psychopaths are assertive. Psychopaths dont procrastinate. Psychopaths tend to focus on the positive. Psychopaths
 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-pros-to-being-a-psychopath-96723962/?c=y&page=1

dont take things personally; they dont beat themselves up if things go wrong, even if theyre to blame. And
theyre pretty cool under pressure. Those kinds of characteristics arent just important in the business arena, but
also in everyday life.

The key here is keeping it in context. Lets think of psychopathic traitsruthlessness, toughness, charm, focusas
the dials on a [recording] studio deck. If you were to turn all of those dials up to max, then youre going to overload
the circuit. Youre going to wind up getting 30 years inside or the electric chair or something like that. But if you
have some of them up high and some of them down low, depending on the context, in certain endeavors, certain
professions, you are going to be predisposed to great success. The key is to be able to turn them back down again.

Youve found that some professions rate higher than others when it comes to psychopathic traits. Which jobs
attract psychopaths?

I ran a survey in 2011, The Great British Psychopath Survey, in which I got people to fill out a questionnaire
online to find out how psychopathic they were. I also got people to enter their occupations, what they did for a
living, and how much money they earned over the course of a year. We found a whole range of professions
cropping upno serial killers among them, although no one would admit to it. The results made very interesting
reading, especially if youre partial to a sermon or two on a Sunday, because the clergy cropped up there at number
eight. You had the usual suspects at the top; you had your CEOs, lawyers, mediaTV and radio. Journalists were a
bit down the list. We also had civil servants. There were several police officers, actually, so as opposed to being
criminals, some psychopaths are actually out there locking other people up. Any situation where youve a got a
power structure, a hierarchy, the ability to manipulate or wield control over people, you get psychopaths doing very
well.

What would be a bad career choice for a psychopath? Which professions scored low?

No real surprises, actually. There were craftsmen, care workers. Nurses were in there. Accountants were pretty low
on psychopathy. One of the interesting ones: doctors. Doctors were low on psychopathy, but surgeons were actually
in the top ten, so theres kind of a dividing line between surgeons and doctors.

Can psychopaths have a positive impact on society, as opposed to just using their advantages to get ahead?

Ive interviewed a lot of special forces troops, especially the British Special Air Service. Theyre like Navy Seals.
Thats a very good example of people who are pretty high on those psychopathic traits who are actually in a perfect
occupation. Also, I interview in the book a top neurosurgeonthis was a surgeon who takes on operations that are
especially riskywho said to me, The most important thing when youre conducting a dangerous operation, a
risky operation, is youve got to be very cool under pressure, youve got to be focused. You cant have too much
empathy for the person that youre operating on, because you wouldnt be able to conduct that operation.
Surgeons do very nasty things to people when theyre on the operating table. If things do go wrong, the most
important facet in a surgeons arsenal is decisiveness. You cannot freeze.

You noted in the book that youre not a psychopath yourself. Despite my profession, I scored pretty low on
your survey as well. Can normals like you and me learn to develop these psychopathic traits, even if we
dont have them naturally?

Absolutely. Normal people can work out their psychopath muscles. Its kind of like going to the gym in a way, to
develop these attributes. Its just like training.

Psychopaths dont think, should I do this or shouldnt I do this? They just go ahead and do stuff. So next time you
find yourself putting off that chore or filing that report or something, unchain your inner psychopath and ask
yourself this: Since when did I need to feel like something in order to do it?

Another way you can take a leaf out of a psychopaths book: Psychopaths are very reward-driven. If they see a
benefit in something, they zone in on it and they go for it 100 percent. Lets take an example of someone who is
kind of scared of putting in for a raise at work. You might be scared about what the boss might think of you. You
 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-pros-to-being-a-psychopath-96723962/?c=y&page=1

might think if youd dont get it youre going to get fired. Forget it. Cut all that stuff off. Psychopath up, and
overwhelm your negative feelings by concentrating on the benefits of getting it. The bottom line here is, a bit of
localized psychopathy is good for all of us.

You just came back to England this week from the Himalayas. Did that trip have anything to do with your
research into psychopaths?

I was running a rather odd study over there. Psychopaths and Buddhists, in terms of their performance in the lab,
have certain characteristics in common. Theyre good at living in the present. Theyre mindful. Both are calm under
pressure. They focus on the positive. But also, both are good at mind reading. Theyre very good at picking up on
micro-expressions, basically lightning-fast changes in facial scenery; our brain downloads onto the muscles of our
face before it decides on the real picture that it wants to project to the world. These micro-expressions are invisible
to most of our naked eyes. But it seems that expert Buddhist meditators are able to pick them up, probably because
they are able to slow down their perception. Theres a recent study that seems to show that psychopaths are also
good at picking up on micro-expressions. We dont really know the reason for that, but it could be that psychopaths
might spend more time just studying us.

What I did was I hot-footed it over the mountains of Northern India on the Tibet border with a laptop. On the
laptop were 20 pleader videosclips of press conferences organized by the police where youve got folks
pleading with the general public for information as to loved ones whove gone missing. We know that 10 of these
guys have actually done the deed themselves, and 10 people are genuine pleaders. I put them on a laptop, basically
took them to the mountains, caves and remote cabins of these expert Buddhist meditator monks in the high
Himalayas, and got them to tell me which of the 20 were false and which were true. Ill be testing psychopaths very
shortly, and I am going to see who gets more out of 20. Is it the Buddhist monks, or is it the psychopaths?

It was an epic journey. If you dont like heights and you have a nervous dispositionwere talking about foot-width
edges, thousand-meter drops. Pretty dicey. I mean, you have to be a bit of a psychopath to get to these guys.

This interview series focuses on big thinkers. Without knowing whom we will interview next, only that he or
she will be a big thinker in their field, what question do you have for our next interview subject?

Ask them to take my test and tell me what they score. How psychopathic do they think they are?

Our last interviewee, Alison Dagnes, a political scientist whose book, A Conservative Walks Into a Bar, looks
at the liberal bias in political satire, asks: What is your work going to mean for the future?

There was a story in the news not too long ago in which there was a U.S. computer company that deliberately
advertised for people who have Aspergers-like traits, because they know these people are very, very good at
focusing on data and seeing patterns. So perhaps one of the things that could happen in the future is that certain
kinds of industries might actually deliberately screen for people whose psychopath dials are turned up more than
normal.

About Amy Crawford

Amy Crawford is a Michigan-based freelance journalist writing about cities, science, the environment, art and
education. A longtime Smithsonian contributor, her work also appears in CityLab and the Boston Globe.