Interview With Klaus-Peter Koepping (English)

7/20/2017 Mr. Koepping, in what milieu have you grown up?
hat milieu have you grown up? I was born in 1940 and grew up in a more artistic-artistic
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Interview Klaus-Peter Koepping, 10.11.2007
Mr. Koepping, in what milieu have you grown up?
I was born in 1940 and grew up in a more musically-

Artistic environment. My mother was as
Actress at the opera. Many of my uncles I did
Early acquaintances, were composers, painters and artists
Translator. They lived later in the GDR, so was the
Contact restricted. They led a precarious,
Unadjusted existence, as I did during my visits
noted. My father worked as an insurance buyer, he
Was a very rational type. He had little to do with
Science, but was very open minded
Everything you wanted to do. There were no guidelines.
Were you as a child about reading to the world

introduced?
Well, perhaps less - more about the musical: opera,

Classical music, concerts. That was through my mother
promoted. Reading, such as adventure stories and
Research reports, was initiated in school. I
Went to the Humanist Gymnasium in Kassel,
Partly the lessons took place in bombed buildings.
The director of the school always took the novices
And tried to evaluate them individually. He often gave me
Books, for example on archeology and Greek
Antiquity. Since I developed a regular interest in
Adventures in the widest sense, but on one
Research base. Heyerdahl reminds me of his
Tiki expedition.
I also liked to read myths and fairy tales. I also read Karl May, but that bored me
Quickly because it was pure invention. I found it much more exciting to deal with people like Schliemann.
So rather the science-based research biographies, excavation or exploration reports - but that came
later. Twenty years later, I knew: this is an ethnography.
Did you get the books from the city library?
No, that was not yet. After the war, around 1951/52, there was also no library at the
High school. These were all the private stocks of this extraordinary director. He was a lover of classical music,
A true Graezist who also taught Latin. A round, strong man with a lot of humor. He was working on one
School, which also accepted laborers. There was an entrance examination, and so he practically decided who he was in the
School. This was a real mix, the students were either from high academic houses or
Workers' children. He also had such a feeling, the individual children books from his collection palatable
: We were always allowed to come into the director's room and look around. This was, of course, terribly exciting, all
these books. From the initial curiosity more often emerged - this was a very clever move from him.
Have your parents supported these interests, or are they more skeptical?
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_f 1/11
7/20/2017 Mr. Koepping, in what milieu have you grown up? I was born in 1940 and grew up in a more artistic-artistic
They have fully promoted, especially my mother and her side of the family who, as I said, have an academic-
Bohemian background. My grandfather was also a grazist at a high school and called himself a professor
Interview of 10.11.2007, conducted in the Berlin private apartment of Klaus-Peter Koepping (approved by K.-P. Koepping am
27.06.2011)
Transcription: Silvia Schneck, Editing: Vincenz Kokot
Contact: Dieter Haller (dieter.haller@rub.de) Internet: www.germananthropology.de
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For Latin, Greek and Hebrew. The oncels also supported me, we had a heavy correspondence. To
Christmas, I always got books, which I previously freely selected. I never wanted anything else
But only books, and so I built up my own library.
Have you spent your entire childhood and youth in Kassel?
No, it was very migratory. In 1945 I experienced the evacuation - that was what was called then. From one day to the
Others we had to leave Cottbus, my birthplace, because the Russians were marching in. One heard the
Gunneronner, the last moves went west. Then we rst lived two or three years in a tiny one
Lower Saxony village. Finally we went to Kassel. Then I went to the Volksschule for a year, then
Followed three years to the Quarta in the Gymnasium there. Then my father was transferred to Aachen, and so came
I went there to the humanist Kaiser-Karl-Gymnasium, among the archbishops. This school was connected with the cathedral
And actually a very traditional institution, but with classical education. That was a mixture that was more likely
Was less advanced - which also gave me a bit negative. I was the only Protestant in one
Class of Catholics. They dissociated themselves somewhat, but I was incorporated by being also at the Catholic
Religious education. The priest also taught philosophy, for example Thomas Aquinas. I found that
Then again interesting, because he did something quite different from the Protestants. So I graduated the rest of the
Higher education until the Abitur in Aachen.
Have you considered this Catholic milieu, above all, analyzing, or have you suffered more?
No, I have not suffered at all. They were also relatively enlightened. Every year one marched once to the cathedral
And to the fair, and in the beginning I also marched with. But I found it terribly funny and funny, these
Rites, and somehow also impressive - the Aachen Cathedral, the incense and these things. But I did
A certain distance from the veneration of the saints.
On the other hand we read early Latin texts. First Homer, later Ovid's love story.
Under the bench we also read Boccaccio and when the teacher caught one of us, he said, "Well, do
Times three extra chapters Greek until the next hour, after all you have read a classical text. "She
Were not so completely defenseless. This was a mixture that I found interesting, because you can also get involved with religion
And rituals as well as the meaningfulness of the things and juxtaposed them: for example the
Relationship between erotic literature and church. It was alive, a little provocative and so useful
For an enlightened thinking.
In 1959 you did your Abitur. Did you know what you want to study?
No, I did not know at all. My father advised me to become an insurance buyer, with the main focus
Jurisprudence. There was a bit of nancial security. Then I actually started, Jura in Bonn
To study, for several semesters. By the sixth semester, I had almost all the bills together, the rst
Examination. But somehow I already had doubts about the jurisprudence from the fourth semester onwards
Especially when I noticed in the repetitories what a meaningless process of this elaboration of the paragraphs is.
I then got to know different areas through different courses: I got to the history of art, I've been looking at
The second semester with Japanology and found oriental languages exciting. I also tried the times
Egyptology, but that was too far away. Japanology fascinated me because of the symbols and
Character systems - less because of exoticism, but because it was difcult to understand. That was also four to ve
Semester well, until the then professor - actually a school teacher - meant that I had to speak Japanese as a language
Learn and therefore be present every hour. Such a thing was very unusual at the time.
I also had a side job as a Bundestagsstenograph. Even as a student, I dealt with stenography
And came to the German championship at the Abitur. I was probably the third-fastest German stenographer
Every championship and full of enthusiasm. The competition of the quick-writing I found fascinating, too
The different types of writing and abbreviation - Japanese characters and stenography, somehow
Me together In the sessions of the Bundestag one had to literally mitstenograph, sometimes over twelve
For hours. So I often could not go to university. The Japanese scientist said that was not the case. I am not at all
Philologist, I translate a lot too freely! He gave me a proper curtain preaching, so in the fth or sixth semester,
And declared that I was not the type for the Japanese. He himself had studied at Thurnwald in Berlin, the sociologist
And
A bitethnologists. That is
piqued and found it an exciting
unfair thing,
that he just
threw methe
outright thing
of his for me.HeWell,
seminar. afterme
directed histo
speech,
Lord I was only
Trimborn, who at that time taught in Bonn about South American high cultures and material culture. So I landed in
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Whose seminar on the baskets of the Arizona Indians. There you had to hold lectures, to different
Braiding techniques. I found this terribly dull! So I went to Trimborn and said that the Andes-
High cultures did not interest me so much, but rather Japan. He looked at me and said I should
His colleague in Cologne, the ethnologist Petri - der would do everything. That sounded so half admiring, half
But it seemed interesting to me.
What was Mr. Trimborn for a man and a teacher?
He was a very accurate and meticulous teacher, very strict. Always something unapproachable for the students, but with one
Wide cultural-historical overview, comparative in its approach. For the time at that time theoretically very
Interesting because he was concerned with feudal structures. I learned much later that there was a French school
gives. He had so much to say, which I found interesting, also about evolutionism. It was surprising how he did
Which applied to the so-called indigenous Hochkulturen, just the eld simply did not grab me.
His assistants, who at that time developed the lessons, were more related to the concrete object. you
Often went from material culture and was also archeologically interested. This was then added to another
Which still overwhelmed me. I did not understand what was going on.
In general, Mr. Trimborn was inuenced by the then Viennese school, but he also adopted a more modern sociological approach
Theories. From today's point of view, he does not seem so far away from Gehlen. But, as I said, I was
Not very long with him. He sent me very quickly to Cologne, where I arrived in 1966.
How do you imagine the Cologne Institute from the perspective of a student?
One still had the free choice, could change the subjects and subjects easily with correspondingly good notes. I got there
Cologne Institute and met the assistant there - a very agile and open - minded man named
On West Africa. He asked me about my regional interests and said that Petri was in Australia.
He immediately offered me a seminar to focus on, as well as to see how that came about.
I had already met the sinologist, Herr Fuchs. He dealt with Tang literature and collected
Modern Chinese folklore reports. He wanted to use me as a Ph.D. student: I should then just like everyone
Magazines of the Chinese people from the past twenty years. For that one must the
Chinese characters that I did not have at the time. Fuchs thought this could be done by the way
And then write a paper about it. I told him that it was too complicated for me, though I did
Was already inspired by the idea of the differences and differentiations of the people's cultures of East Asia
employ. China was now Communist, but Fuchs had literature on pre-Communist ones
Tactics: On witchcraft and gods gures and similar things. This I found extremely exciting, also because it was not so
A closed high culture.
I then dealt with the Chinese souls' presentations, reading everything there was for four weeks.
Giant volumes on Taoism and Confucianism, sources on bone carvings and
Interpretations of Sweden Karlgren. In the end, I had a twentieth script. As Petri of Field Research
I gave the lecture at the seminar. I did not know how long you could talk
Actually so seventy-ve minutes. After fty minutes the assistant became uneasy and made signs,
While Petri sat and smoked at the far end of the room. It was impossible to see from his face whether he
Listened at all. He was a bit barbed. So I spoke further, was insecure, although the topic was great.
Petri came after me and said I had put his patience to a hard trial, but it was quite interesting
been. He invited me to go for a drink with him. At that time, it was a very unusual attitude for one
Professor. He did this every week after the seminar: one sat until after midnight in a restaurant and had to
To keep up with drinking. This was becoming increasingly violent in the late evening, but also very relaxed. He told
From Australia, from his research at the Kimberleys. I found this fascinating, because he was still very enthusiastic
From research. I think the doctrine bore him a bit, he was more of a kind. That seemed
Unusual for the conditions at the time.
How did it happen that Petri was more interested in eld research?
Most of the professors were very concerned with the theory or with concrete matters, which they then meticulously
To take apart. Petri, on the other hand, mostly related to his own background: he was in Frankfurt
Had been a pupil of Frobenius and had been researching with him in the 1930s with the Kimberleys
Cave painting. Before the war he was regularly in Australia, during the war there was an interruption, and
After the war, he was one of the rst Germans to make eld research. He was every two years
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Between them, he did some research with us: we had to spend some weeks in Europe every year for four weeks
work. Petri determined where to go, before doing a test.
He had also been to Finland, as well as to Greece. He was uent in modern Greek
As a soldier there. He went with us to the mediterranean area, wanted systematically all festivals and customs. Of the
First place where I landed with a colleague, was Corsica, for Easter. We had to prepare everything ourselves - the
Read literature, make contacts, etc. - and even nance yourself, it was relatively cheap. Altogether there were seven
Groups, mostly with two people each.
Were you methodologically prepared somehow, or was it almost the leap into the cold water?
It was the cold water. Petri always said, research techniques can not be taught, which one must make. The
Was revolutionary, I believe. He forced us to do eld research for practically all summer holidays
use. Together with the preparatory period, this went a long way: the scribe, the literature collection, the
Reading in French and English. Many of the colleagues have also developed their doctoral theses over these areas,
The research is very deepened. This was extremely exciting, because you suddenly faced with a completely different world
Was to design and research itself with the people.
In Corsica there were also confusion about the language: what do the Corsics really speak for a language? I
Tried it in French, my colleague tended to speak Italian. So we got along quite well. The monks, at
Where I was quartered, spoke French very well. The villagers, of course, not, they spoke Corsican, somewhere
Between Italian and Old-Latin. Petri expected us to ght. He visited the groups,
Looked at how far they had come and how they got along. He also spoke with the mayors and priests,
Drank with the local people and always arrived equally well. He had such a certain kind, today one would
"Event research" - but with depth preparation. He reminded me of Boas, of his students
Always triumphed, and made them learn all sorts of languages.
At that time I found the great, this adventurous. The group was increasingly welded together; each year
We were traveling together. The researches were then evaluated by Petri, one also got a semblance,
Which was not so important to the faculty. Going into the eld was simply his requirement. I think it went
With him at all not that one worked purely theoretically. He also took a lot of foreigners as students, what
Was not common at that time. There were, for example, Israelis, Bangladeshis and Persians who wrote doctoral theses mostly
About their cultures. It was a very mixed circle.
Finally, I wanted to do a research for my doctoral thesis but not in the Mediterranean or
Australian space, where Petri was a specialist. I wanted to go to East Asia, either to China or Japan. Now I had
Japanese learned, so this was an option very quickly.
Who were your fellow students?
With Kurt Tauchmann, I have been very close friends for decades, he is a specialist for Indonesia. Now he is
emeritus. I have lost some of my eyes. There was a lady who explored Spanish villages, but then in the
French art scene disappeared. Then I remember a lady in West Africa about women's covenants
worked. There was also one of the Deltgens, but he disappeared in the arms business. It was, as I said, one
Colorful cluster, but not many ethnologists have said: Tauchmann is next to me the only one who has the
Ethnology; The others went to other professions. The people from overseas are probably to their universities
But what happened to them I do not know. The contact lost very quickly when I was in 1966/67
On research to Japan. I had chosen the area together with Petri. He accepted all subjects, though
They had only to do with eld research.
We also submitted a research project, which I had designed, since I needed a scholarship. It was new to me that
He himself wrote his application, not the professor. I also had the handicap that I did not
Ethnology. But already at the mentioned beer evening Petri had offered me my doctoral thesis with him
To write. This was a bit precarious, because of course the faculty had its rules: one had at least eight
Semesters have studied ethnology - I had no semester. I was actually a lawyer and a kind
Mixed with the Japanese. Thanks to Petri, three years of my studies to the
Ethnology, so I had fullled my duties.
Did you feel like you were missing something?
Yes. Petri also forced us to prepare seminar papers during the semester. That meant that the
Entire literature of a subject, a theory or a school. One had to be at the very least
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And a lecture lasting forty-ve minutes. You sat for a whole semester concentrated
Of the work and knew the sources inside and out. It was not like it is today, where ten courses are attended
Various small things, all of which are not related.
Was Petri the only professor in Cologne?
As I said, there was the assistant, Mr. Besuchelt. He taught psychological anthropology. And there was still
Mr. Funke. He also gave courses, which were however rather so travel reports. We did not like it all, it was too
unfounded. We were only there to get the appearance. If you were going to Petri, that was a whole
Different style, because you had to ackern properly. We also sat together as groups to get complicated things
explore. This was only possible by talking to three or four other students and reading the literature.
Have you tried in your own doctrine to bring about this diversity and self-responsibility?
I did not come back to Germany, but went rst to Japan, to my research. At the same time worked
I as a journalist, about Japan and China. I wanted to go to China, but this was by an entry ban
prevented. This was the famous period of cultural revolution; I took them about Japanese and international
Press sources and wrote about it for German newspapers.
The ethnological research project dealt with the revival movement in Japan. My rst year was
Financially covered by the fellowship, then I got the support of the Friedrich-
Ebert Foundation. However, I wanted to stay longer in Japan and had to nance myself. Through the
Journalistic activity, I had a broad horizon and I am concerned, for example, with foreign policy
China question and the oil question. The Vietnam War was just beginning. I was a member of the Correspondence Club, met there
You can attend lectures three to four times a week. I felt that journalism was a very interesting one
Scene, because the people on the spot researched, quickly researched, had to write quickly. I also wanted to learn,
To write an article overnight. It was a different track. Then I had this background from the
Ethnology, Petri and his profound seminars. So I learned a lot.
I used to do all this in America. I had previously taught in English in English, but
Now I had to read through American teaching books how the subject was made there. That was very
Restrictive but universal. This, of course, is not the deep, but the broad range of ethnological
Thinking. I found this very impressive, because the Americans had the physical with the cultural and social, the
Linguistic and archaeological - so to speak a bit like the old anthropology.
What happened after your time in Japan?
I went to America in 1969 to get a job there, but I did not nish my doctoral thesis
to have. I had only collected data and attended a conference in Tokyo, where I also gave a small lecture,
Some American colleagues. It was the sixties, the Americans said it was necessary
They anthropologists, who are specialized in Asia and Japan. I took this literally, according to the motto: Come
Then you get a job. When I arrived in the USA, of course, it was not so fast. I drove off
Vancouver down the whole coast, landed in Berkeley and had a contact named George DeVos. He was
Ethnologist and Japanese researcher. Then there was Mr. Smelder, who was already very well known. I knocked everywhere
The doors - that goes in America, of course, you come in and talk for two hours. I liked that, it
Was quite different from Germany. The US colleagues were very helpful in the search for jobs. It was
Just beginning of autumn and everywhere in Southern California people were looking for people for ethnology. I called
Various new departments at and in Fullerton, I had the manager at the apparatus, who promptly
invited. So I went down and signed a contract, as an "assistant professorship."
It was then also the famous time of the student revolution, I got it all. Before I went to Fullerton
, I had spent three months in Berkeley over water - about three hundred
Dollar for a lecture. I also taught a little. The Americans were very relaxed at that time
Especially in ethnology and social sciences. There sat people who brought their dogs
With, there were the hippies and families with babies, and there were people from the Black Power movement. Very exciting!
Compared to Japan or Germany this was really unusual. I lived in Oakland, in the neighborhood
The Black Community. I as a white man rented me a at, with wife and two children. That was nice
Dared, I ran a bit blue-eyed, but it went quite well. I came into the conversation with the blacks and they loaded
Me to their meetings - it was funny, but also very fascinating.
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When I began to teach in Fullerton, the letters came from Germany asking for my doctoral thesis
has been. So I sat down for about two months, worked up my data and then wrote down the next day -
Always go to the Hamburger-Shop, refuel, write, teach during the day. I sent the work
Finally to Germany, but Petri was constantly on research trips and hardly came to read. There was something
Because if you did not make your doctorate in the US within the rst three years of employment, you ew
Get out In the end, Petri accepted my work and wanted me to go to the oral exam for Germany
come. The test was insanely funny. Petri had an apprentice from Vienna, who had no idea of my affairs
would have. He was from the cultural history school. On the other hand, I emphasized modern functionalism, the
Parsonianism and the American school. This had been treated relatively little in Germany, only Petri
Knew all this. The colleague from Vienna was sitting there and could not join me.
The second test I made with Mr. King; I had also studied with him for a while. It was about Durkheim, around
Classical sociology. This was one of King's favorite subjects, and I knew he would ask questions.
But rst he went to Japan, said to the colleagues that one of me as eld research specialists still
What could learn. My remarks about Japan should then be combined with the concepts of Durkheim. The
Was a bit precarious, but it ran quite well.
The third test was in Japanese. I had a colleague, who was ready, a modern one
Japan to make. It was difcult at the time to nd someone in Germany who was not simply a classic text
From the 8th century - what I could have done, but very stagnant. The auditor, Professor Bruno Lewin,
Was a literary scientist from Bochum, his assessor was a Sinologist. They submitted a text that did not
From which time he came, or from which he acted. I had twenty minutes to read through
And subsequently to explain. He had nothing at all with my eld, the Japanese religious sciences,
to do. It was a literary work from the 19th century, very difcult to read. In 1868, there was one in Japan
Language change, the older language forms are incredibly complex and difcult to see. Thus it became the
Worst test of all. It had also been a gamble, the examination at that time to such specialists
- in my studies, which was very freely chosen and, so to speak, consisted of composed pieces.
How did you perceive German ethnology as compared to your experiences in Japan and Japan?
USA?
As very old-fashioned and so to speak stuck in the literature, in old theories, in the text research. There was
Also hardly a relevance in relation to the modern eld. This began only from the early seventies
change.
What more disliked me were the conditions of the dependency hierarchies. I noticed very clearly that the
Assistants are only the better pencil sharpeners of the professors. They had to deal with the
Student education and doctoral studies, without writing their own postdoctoral thesis
To be able to. I also saw how the assistants were dependent on moods of the professors: When the boss times
Sour, then for four weeks nothing was going on between them. This whole form of trainee training
Was not a training, but a risk ght. Added to that, people who are long enough somewhere at a
Institut, then there also arrived. This sitting did not suit me. The American form of teaching and the
Learning, however, had impressed me from the beginning. I found this more adequate; All were colleagues, no matter how old
One was. It was an equally legitimate conversation.
So you went back to Fullerton?
Yes, I went back there, but I did not like the social environment. After a total of three years I became
"Associate Professor," with the doctor's hand in his hand. I stayed another year, but California was close to me
Uniformized and technized. The whole construction, which was quite inhuman. I looked around for a place,
In which I could pursue ethnology and carry on the studies of Japan. The Americans found this interesting,
but you had to have relations to the large institutions and professors. A now deceased
Colleague said that one must work your way through performance, at least ten years, then you may be at
one of the best universities in the East. Added to this was that the teaching requirements were reformed in California at the time: Each
Professor
two hundrednowstudents,
had to serve fourtocourses
you had withthem
look after threeall,
hours percongresses,
to the week. In any teachers came
publications, about
lectures and so
continue. I thought that was a bit hairy.
Finally, I saw an ad in the newspaper: In Brisbane, Australia, an anthropologist and lecturer was sought -
my journalistic side came back to me. The ad was signed by Peter Lawrence, the very one
was great researcher on messianic cults in New Guinea. I knew him as a theorist, had many of his
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read stuff. His lyrics were sound, deep, lined historically and philosophically. I found this very
Interesting.
In Australia there was the Anglo-Saxon system in the academic eld, it requires less competitive like this
Behavior that the Americans at that time already had and we now get in Germany. So I applied
naively in Brisbane and also received a personal reply from Lawrence. He was enthusiastic about my
Qualication, but said that as Europeans would feel comfortable there as in the backwoods. He was also there,
to leave his chair in Brisbane to go to Sydney.
The committee in charge in Australia then decided not to let me specially own in, but my tness
to refrain from an overseas specialists examine - by Harding, a colleague and student of Lesley White, the
Ethnologists from evolutionary school. He invited me to dinner to Santa Barbara and we got
fantastic. He asked a few questions and ofcial thought I would t than to America rather to Australia.
The University in Brisbane he conveyed a positive opinion and so I was invited in 1972 there.
It was a bit of a shock: to live suddenly in the tropics, in a country town with a small center.
That was very old fashioned, very British, very colonial. I came here purely center, to the "Department for Sociology and
Anthropology "whose boss is a sociologist, Professor John Western was. Lawrence was already gone. I visited him in
Sydney and he gave me a few tips, so I cope better would nd myself in Queensland. That was very helpful. The
Australians are so different from the Americans and then they were very anti-American set. Even there
There were student protests that were brutally suppressed by the right-wing government.
it said to you, again faced with a new country and a new academic environment
to be?
Yes, it was a challenge, especially thematically. The subtropical climate, I was in turn used to in Japan.
At the university in Brisbane was dressed very informal and also the residential areas in the suburbs were very open
and naturnah applied. There was a scary great scenery there, that then fascinated me yet. the academic
District had a high level, there were very well-trained people. The students were - compared to
my experience in the US and Japan - on a better knowledge. So it was a change, but a
positive.
In 1985 I took over in Melbourne Professor of a new chair. There was a whole
built ethnological institute and I applied it. It was very stressful and nancially
restrictive. Although I led my research in Japan on, went every year for three months away, but it was always
something detrimental to the new professorship. At the Faculty were twelve or thirteen disciplines together, each
Part was given a certain sum of money. Ethnology as a new subject had always ghting something to the
to get the same proportion as the established areas. I also had to build a master's program and
to attract new teachers to the territories Japan, China, India and Indonesia. It was a very mixed
Department, with a focus on Asia. We set up a "School of Asian Studies" and the university top
expected them becoming established well. That we were successful, but the whole rivalries
various faculties, the permanent nancing work and public events that was me
after nearly ve years simply too much.
If you have then applied in Germany?
I had occasional contact with Germany was, for example, during the holidays often in Heidelberg
Area, on the Neckar. My family liked Germany very well. I increasingly got contact with the faculty in
Heidelberg, stronger than at other institutions. I was in between whatsoever at various German universities,
as a guest lecturer in Mainz and Aachen. Thus I learned the German Ethnology again to know better. The
System was less demanding in terms of the requirements for a professorship. You did not have, as in
covering Australia, both the teaching and the organization, as well as research and funding. In addition
the contact with Mr. Burkhardt, who just returned from England and had a different idea of Ethnology, the
I really liked. Besides his language skills and the Anglo-Saxon tradition that works empirically and
crop specic
unusual mix ofarea of research
ethnology does,
at the he especially
time, brought with modern philosophy and postmodernism - a very
in Germany.
During my fourth year in Melbourne, it was found that in Heidelberg one point was accidentally released.
Burkhardt advised me to apply for a job there. I reected back and forth and consulted with my family: Heidelberg
quite pretty, there is a good university where many other interesting subjects are represented. So I applied,
Early nineties.
Interview on 10/11/2007, performed in the Berlin private apartment of Klaus-Peter Koepping (Release K.-P. Koepping on
27.06.2011)
Transcription: Silvia Schneck, editing a: Vincenz Kokot
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Did you and Burkhardt joint plans to bring the Institute in a certain direction?
Yes, there should be a mixture. He always wanted to teach the postmodern theories, for example,
Lyotard and Foucault. That was almost unheard of in Germany. For this purpose he wanted the empirical strand and
different areas of Komperatistik have because he represented India and I was a specialist in Japan. There should be a
Ethnology be going away of exoticism and primitivism. We wanted modern non-European
View companies comparison, the with in-depth anthropological methodologies from
Anglo-Saxon come - but with a cap of postmodern theories, constructions and compounds.
That was in our view an interesting concept.
We were attached to the South Asia Institute, because after Mhlmanns resignation, there was no in Heidelberg
general ethnology. It was therefore difcult to teach within this structure. We were the only
Subject that was both towards research and towards teaching. However, Burkhardt was
Unfortunately, very quickly sick. So I had to take over the entire South Asia region, but at the same time
this new type of Ethnology develop. This then resulted in a conversation with the then Rector. He asked if
we do not want to establish an institute for general ethnology. He had plans and be considered whether I would be willing
to take over. It could have been a great start, but Burkhardt then died, after a long illness.
Since the balance between the South Asia Institute and general anthropology has been structurally not yet established,
it was a very precarious history, as the new professor was appointed. This went on for a long time.
This new professor was then Mr. Wassmann?
Yes. The site at the South Asia Institute also had to be busy, because then came Mr. Sax. However, it took several years,
to back the structural possibility existed that the South Asia Institute and the Institute for general
could cooperate ethnology.
How do you assess the development of ethnology in Germany in the nineties one, also in comparison
to what you last hear a thing ?
In the twenty years that I have not spent in Germany, you could also nd out that because
were specic schools - for example, in Cologne, where developed a very dedicated empirical direction, with
network research. When I left from Germany, in the early seventies, this was still a very fresh
Approach, meanwhile, there was quite a hike Institute full of excellent people. In addition, throughout a developed
methodologically very mature, based on eld research training of graduate students. There was an opening for
Anglo-Saxon way, which could see it - not literature, but the research was now considered as a basis.
It was different than it was in the previous generation.
It has also increasingly sociological, partly application-oriented, especially in the African Studies: GTZ,
International Organization, AIDS research. Perhaps even came a bit too fast, the foundations were indeed
not yet laid. When I returned to Germany, I was in the second year regular courses
application-oriented ethnology. There was a great need then to think that. The question is also whether
ethnology should be an application science. Our colleagues in America and the Australians were
then again more cautious.
Do you think the German ethnology took over at that time rather the form that theories and approaches, but
less the basics?
Yes. Institutionally could not provide the basics, of course, the English an American or
can offer Ethnology. Even in Fullerton that time there were twelve points, calculated from assistant to professor.
So you could, of course, cover several areas, different theoretical directions, various empirical forms.
The fertile soil there were only when you thought times on applications, such as on land rights
turn reservation
and specialists. issues.
In Germany,
But that
everything
could notshould
make any
be possible
person well,
covered
but with
then one
gaveor two professorships - the
not the point! So you have to specialize; then it will be very tight again, and everything is on the edge
hang. To date, this has not changed. We lack the nancial latitude to institutions with twenty
to have teaching staff. This hierarchical system that always tailored to the tip, so the professor
and all that is actually impossible Others, such as the academic staff, dismisses as a side thing and can
not go well for long. If you take the requirements seriously, then come the end only
Nervous wreck out.
27.06.2011)
8th
Page9
The question of what to do with this perspective is very difcult, of course. One can have a possibly
Numerus clausus introduce, can the doctrine might move to the lower and central structure - but since I
ad hoc no answer. It probably should go there, that not all institutions to cover the entire subject.
Thus, institutions must be very specialized such as in parts of the African Studies. But this means that the connection
a fundamental teaching with the training of specialists would have to be rethought and employees default.
Perhaps there is a way that some people actually make only the teaching. That will not t all, but
perhaps a dichotomy's sense: On the one hand there were places that the students the basics of the subject
convey, on the other hand there was the research and research consulting. That you have to make today, that's
not like before, when they threw us into the deep end. Also, the informant can not be anything more
expect.
If the eld-oriented research in your opinion, a key element of German Ethnology?
In any case. When the German ethnology to remain competitive, it must have a eld of research.
You can not be reduced only to the teaching of how this happens in many institutions now. It is also hard feelings when
practically no longer be the very high hierarchies, so the professors see, only to retreat
and do their research. Ideally, they should be the stimulators of research, conduct research and
show the direction in which an institution is what research approach it represents. They can of course not
cope alone anymore, in the amount of administrative details. In Heidelberg, I was for years in
Collaborative Research Center operates, the writing and administrative work took on immense proportions - which had indeed rst
nothing to do with the actual research. There are so many different forces in different directions
pull, an agreement is almost impossible. Because you really have to think about personnel changes: Easy
to start only Max Planck Institute, does not help.
If the trade because more go out in public in order to provide the necessary resources in advance?
The publicity is likely to anthropologists actually not difcult, we do have a kind of "Exoten-
Bonus". Knowledge of foreign cultural, which is excellent present for all German ethnologist and
is they often communicated well in public so also might work meaningful. Only we can not
sell why this is necessary. Despite all intercultural Litts debates here inside you do not see why the
thousandfold learning about outer diversity can contribute something to the West German GDP-product. The
economic side is increasingly emphasized. Like all scholars, we now have the problem of the
compared to having to explain politicians why we are useful. That was never the case earlier, but I know the
even from Australia and from the English-speaking world. Since we are in a dilemma because the Ethnology yes from
wants exoticism away, more to the picture to the fact that other people are like us. The public image to the effect
to correct, that would be interesting and also in the interest of most anthropologists who work in Germany. But
which runs contrary to the expectation horizon.
I see another problem: Some other scholars, mostly desk workers, so become
in the debates of exoticism and speculate, for example, about cannibalism and the cannibals of modern
Society - which attract a lot of people issues. Because there are some who rumreisen here in Germany and such
talk things. Here is forgotten that there are anthropologists who the integrative, free knowledge
, Who live in other parts of the world ranging from the slum to the Kingdom. To the extent of knowing what
we have, there are excellent people in all areas. But that would not move back into the public because
We then that the exotic would get out again and were back in the old quandary. This is what the
Englishman already problematic very early. Ardener in Oxford rewrote the problem: There is the idea that strangers
to understand, to understand one's own better - that's the old Malinowski set. According Ardener the problem
that we make the others so similar that its strangeness is lost. That's in the
intercultural debate very much the train that you actually denies the strangers. Ardener argues that we the
bring in foreign again and allow to exist as strangeness should - that the concept of otherness. That's another one
bit my track and should continue to be focused. With the DGV is Symposia would make to see,
where the German ethnology actually is. I think there are still very different points of view within
the tray. That can be good, but for the external representation we must consider how we actually
want to arrive. This is quite clear in America. In England it is relatively clear, because they are from the Cultural
had to distinguish Studies. But also, you can see how the ethnology, cultural studies, the Media Studies, the
Communications and performance art goes in. All this is processed and has both positive and
negative sides. Only the ethnologists probably have a bit afraid to discussions with these subjects
involved.
27.06.2011)
9
Page10
On the other hand we still have not created a renewed self-image. In one must also think times.
Mr. Hauschild has done research for example, about the Nazi era: Whether a postwar anthropology from the outset
represents bias, which does not exist in other countries, although as a colonial history is present. Whether one in
these countries is less inhibited, but rather aggressive apart puts it. perhaps in America
less than in England, where it still cooks very high. The Americans also had their race riots and then
the ethnologists have also latched. The American anthropologists have certainly done much to
problematize things they might be able to look a bit lighter than the German position. It would be
very interesting, the time to explore dialogue. These are very different strands coming together there. The
German Ethnology is relatively complex, much kleinkammeriger and interwoven with the story. as have
We perhaps a problem that is not always expressed, is perhaps not perceived.
27.06.2011)
10

Interview With Klaus-Peter Koepping (English)

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Interview With Klaus-Peter Koepping (English)

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7/20/2017 Mr. Koepping, in what milieu have you grown up?

Interview Klaus-Peter Koepping, 10.11.2007

Mr. Koepping, in what milieu have you grown up?

I was born in 1940 and grew up in a more musically-

Were you as a child about reading to the world

Well, perhaps less - more about the musical: opera,

Did you get the books from the city library?

Have you spent your entire childhood and youth in Kassel?

What was Mr. Trimborn for a man and a teacher?

Who were your fellow students?

Was Petri the only professor in Cologne?

What happened after your time in Japan?

So you went back to Fullerton?

If you have then applied in Germany?

This new professor was then Mr. Wassmann?

If the eld-oriented research in your opinion, a key element of German Ethnology?

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