Chasse Deposition: Loghry Transcript

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

JAMES P. CHASSE, JR.; JAMES P. )
CHASSE; LINDA GERBER; and MARK 1
CHASSE, individually and in his
capacity as Personal Representative )
of the ESTATE OF JAMES P. CHASSE,
JR.,
Plaintiffs, )
V. )NO. CV-07-0189-HU
CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; )
CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND )
JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS; )
PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER 1
PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE )
OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH
COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and )
JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL)
PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and)
JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER )
OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN )
TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; )
and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE )
NORTHWEST, INC.,
Defendants.
DEPOSITION OF
DIANE LOGHRY
Taken in behalf of Defendants
* * *
July 28, 2008
1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
Portland, ,O,r,egon
Shannon K. Krska, CSR
court Reporter
121 sw Morrison s t , Suite 850
4 0 0 Colurnb~a,Su~te1 4 0
Vancouver, WA 98660
Shtt&Lehmann,Inc. Portland, OR 97204
C O U R T R E P O R T E R S
13601
,~ , 695-5554 (5031
. . 223-4040
Fax (360) 695-1737 www.slreporting.com siinc@qwestoffice.net
Diane Loghry, 7/28/2008 Chasse v . Humphreys, et al.
APPEARANCES :
For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSON
Attorney at Law
8 1 5 S.W. Second, Suite 500
Portland, OR 9 7 2 0 4
For the Defendants MR. DAVID A. LANDRUM

Humphreys, Nice, and Attorney at Law
City of Portland: 1 2 2 1 S.W. Fourth, Suite 430
For the Defendants MS. SUSAN DUNAWAY
Burton and Multnomah Attorney at Law
County: 501 S.E. Hawthorne, Suite 502
For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK

AMR : Attorney at Law
1 2 1 1 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
INDEX
EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NO
Mr. Landrum 3 - 46
Ms. Dunaway 46 - 72
Ms. Back 73 - 86
Mr. Steenson 86 - 89
Ms. Dunaway 89 - 90
EXHIBITS
No. 303 Diagram
Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Diane Loghry, 7/28/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
3
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; MONDAY, JULY 28, 2008
2 9:06 AM
3 * * *
4 DIANE LOGHRY
5 called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants,
6 having first been sworn by the Reporter,
7 testifies as follows:
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. LANDRUM:
10 Q. Miss Loghry, my name is David Landrum, and
11 I'm a deputy city attorney, and in this case I
12 represent the police officers and the City of
13 Portland. The other attorneys in the case are here.
14 And we're going to be asking you some questions about
15 your observations of this incident with Mr. Chasse.
16 Have you ever had your deposition taken
17 be£ore?
18 A. Yes, I have.
19 Q. What -- what kind of a situation was that?
20 A. It was for a - - an insurance for a car
21 accident.
22 Q. Okay. About how long ago was that?
23 A. Maybe three years ago.
24 Q. Okay. Well, there's really three main
25 things to remember about a deposition. First thing is

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
4
1 the court reporter's the most important person in the
2 room so we need to make sure that she's able to
3 transcribe everything that gets said, so you and I
4 need to make an effort to let the other one finish
5 before we start speaking so that she takes it all
6 down. The second thing is you need to keep your voice
7 up and then answer yes or no or whatever it is you
8 need to say but don't say uh-huh or huh-uh or nod or
9 shake your head. And that let's her take that down
10 also.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Do you understand that part?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. And then last part is that it's really
15 important that you and I understand each other today,
16 so if you don't understand anything about the question
17 I'm asking you, just point that out to me and I'll try
18 and rephrase it until we both know what we're talking
19 about.
2o A. I understand.
21 Q. All right, thanks.
22 Let's see. You told the court reporter your
23 full name is Diane Loghry. Have you ever used any
24 other names?
25 A. I'm also known as Diane Gilronan Loghry.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
Diane Loghry, 7/28/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et: al.
5
Could you spell that?

G-I-L-R-0-N-A-N.
Is that a maiden name or - -
It's my maiden name, m-hm.
And what's your date of birth?
November llth, 1960.
And where do you live now?
I live in Camas, Washington.
Because if you're called to trial we'll
probably need to send you a subpoena, and even if
you're agreeable to come in that's something to use at
work to show them you have to be somewhere, could you
give me your address?
A. 1231 N.E. 5th Avenue, Camas, Washington
98607.
Q. All right, thanks.
And do you have a cell phone number?
A. I do. It's 1-360-901-6768.
Q. Thank you.
And how tall are you?
A. Five ten.
Q. And what's your place of birth?
A. I was born in Cleveland, Ohio.
Q. And do you have any degrees beyond high
school?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
6
1 A. Yes. I have a degree in elementary
2 education with graduate work in special education.

3 Q. Where is your elementary ed degree from?
4 A. From Linfield College in McMinnville,
5 Oregon.
6 Q. What year?
7 A. I graduated in 1982.
8 Q. And have you ever had to write any kind of
9 graduate thesis or something like that?
10 A. Like a master's thesis?
11 Q. Right.
12 A. No.
13 Q. Okay. Where do you work now?
14 A. I work for the Camas School District in
15 Camas, Washington.
16 Q. What do you do?
I? A. I am an elementary school teacher.
18 Q. What grades do you teach?
19 A. Last year I taught first grade. What I'm
20 teaching next year is up for discussion.
21 Q. What was your last job before that?
22 A. I was a special education teacher with the
23 Educational Service District 112 in Vancouver,
24 Washington.
25 Q. How long did you have that job?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
7
1 A. The special education one?
2 Q. Yes, ma'am.
3 A. I worked for ESD for five years.
4 Q. And what about prior to that?
5 A. I graduated from college.
6 Q. Okay. In your work with special education
7 students, did you ever have to work with students with
8 behavioral issues?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. What kind of spectrum of behavioral issues
11 did you have to work with?
12 A. It was a variety of disabilities. I worked
13 with students who were very young, I taught in the
14 preschool program, and also did that with the Camas
15 School District. So they ranged in age from three to
16 seven.
17 Q. In the course of that kind of work, did you
18 have to work with some children whose behavioral
19 issues called - - caused them to act out physically?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did you sometimes have to correct or
22 restrain kids physically in that work?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you find that stressful?
25 A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
8
1 Q. Well, in the course of doing that,
2 irrespective of its stressful nature, did you also see
3 it as just a necessary part of the work that you had
4 to do?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Were you ever in a situation where anybody
7 called into question the -- your methods in doing
8 that - - that particular aspect of your work?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. And do you wear contacts or
11 glasses - -
12 A. No.
13 Q. -- at any time?
14 A. Reading glasses.
15 Q. Okay. Ever worn a hearing aid?
16 A. NO.
17 Q. Do you have any medical training?
18 A. I - - I don't know. Like basic first aid?
19 Q. Yeah.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. From basic first aid - -
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. - - or CPR or - -
24 A. Yes, I have basic training.
25 Q. Do you have CPR training?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
9
1 A. I do, although my card's not currently
2 current.
3 Q. Have you ever had to use those - - the skills
4 that you learned in those trainings?
5 A. CPR?
6 Q. Well, CPR or first aid.
7 A. I've had to use some basic first aid, yes.
Q. What kind of situations did you have to use
the first aid training in?
A. Typically with - - with young children if
they bump their head or they've cut something, I've
had to, you know, administer aid at that point.
Q. Have you ever had to call an ambulance?
A. For a student?
Q. Right.
A. No.
Q. Have you ever had to call an ambulance for
anybody else outside of your work?
19 A. Yes.
2o Q. You have.
21 What was that situation, just generally?
22 A. I called an ambulance when my father was
23 dying and I called an ambulance when my son was having
24 a severe croup attack.
25 Q. And was that in Vancouver?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
10
A. That was in Camas.

Q. In Camas.
A. My father was in Vancouver, but - -
Q. In those two situations, I guess really
you'd have to separate the two, but in each of those
situations, was your experience with the paramedics
neutral or good or did you have complaints about it?
A. They were fine.
Q. Okay.
A. M-hm, they were good.
Q. Do you have any training in psychology?
A. Beyond graduate level?
Q. Well, at any level. Did you like take the
undergraduate psychology courses?
A. Yes. I did take undergrad psych, and I also
took counseling courses in my graduate work.
Q. What kind of counseling courses did you
take?
A. I can't be specific as to the title of the
course. One was a communication with parents and how
to deal with parents in stressful situations. I'm
trying to remember. I can't remember. I did an art
therapy course I think.
Q. Have you ever had any training, for example,
in how to communicate with somebody in crisis?
Schmitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
11
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember anything about that
training?
A. I took an adversive therapy training
workshop and how to communicate with someone who is
out of control or out of - - where their behavior is
impacting a situation.
Q. Now, was the -- the thrust of that training
about how to establish some rapport and communication
back and forth with that person?
A. That was a component of it.
Q. And was the - - was part of the purpose an
effort to get that person to maybe focus and try to
bring their level of, I don't know, anxiety or crisis
down somewhat?
A. Yes.
Q. And was that specifically directed at young
children?
A. It wasn't specifically for young children.
It was school-aged children.
Q. M-hm.
Have you found that you've had to use what
skills you picked up in that training in your work?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you describe for us generally when - -

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
when you're employing elements of that training that

you picked up, what's your focus? What are you trying
to do?
A. I need some clarification of what you want
me to answer there.
Q. Well, I guess what I'm getting at is when
you -- when you find yourself in a situation where
you're going to use those skills and you think back to
how - - you know, how do I approach this person in this
situation, what do you try to do in that situation?
What's your - - what's your focus with that person?
A. Well, the focus - - the general goal is to
prevent harm, is to prevent harm to that student or to
any other students that might be in the vicinity that
would be potential victims then. It - - it is trying
to isolate that person so that you can get them to a
place where they're calm and able to control their own
behavior without any kind of physical assistance or
verbal assistance so that then you can work through
whatever was that - - was the antecedent that set them
off.
Q. M-hm.
In your experience, and not talking about
hypotheticals, just talking about your experience, is
that always successful or is it just sometimes

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
13
successful and sometimes not?
A. In my experience, it's generally successful,
but not always successful.
Q. Okay. Have you ever been in the military?
A. NO.
Q. Have you ever had any contact with the
Portland Police Bureau, officers from the bureau?
A. I do know a Portland Police officer.
Q. You know a Portland Police officer?
A. M-hm.
Q. What's the name of that officer?
A. His name is Wayne Sphiller (phonetic). He
just retired.
Q. Have you ever had any contact with a
situation like, you know, getting a traffic ticket or
having to call the police in Portland and having them
come to something?
A. I have received one traffic ticket, yes.
Q. Now, aside from the idea that getting a
traffic ticket's not good, been there, too, but
otherwise, was your experience with that officer good,
bad, or indifferent?
A. Good.
Q. What about other law enforcement agencies,
besides the Portland Police Bureau, have you had

(360) 6 9 5 - 5 5 5 4 * * (503) 223-4040
14
1 experiences with other police agencies?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Which ones?
4 A. With the Camas Police Department.
5 Q. What kind of experience was that, generally?
6 A. Well, it's been positive. I've had them in
7 as guest speakers in my classroom. We have a district
8 police officer that we use for educational purposes
9 to, you know, do stranger danger and, you know, as - -
10 as a classroom speaker.
11 Q. And that experience has been good, bad, or
12 indifferent for you?
13 A. Good.
14 I've also had to have interaction with
15 police officers when I've had to make reports to child
16 protective services.
17 Q. And are those experiences generally good,
18 bad, or indifferent?
19 A. As good as they can be in that situation.
20 Q. Sure, I understand.
21 Have you had any martial arts training?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Okay. And so have you always lived in the
24 Vancouver - - well, you didn't because you were born in
25 Ohio. When did you come to the northwest?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
15
1 A. We moved here originally -- the first time
2 we moved here was in 1970, and then we moved back to
3 Michigan, and then we came back here in '74, and I've
4 been here since '74.
5 Q. Have you ever been to a place called the
6 Swindells Apartments? And I'll tell you where it is.
7 It's on Burnside at 4th I think, maybe it's 6th.
A. NO.
Q. You're not familiar with it at all?
A. (Shakes head.)
Q. Did you ever have any contact with
Mr. Chasse, the man that's deceased in this case?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. Have you ever had any contact with
any of his family members that you know of?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Now, did you review any documents
before coming to this deposition today?
A. Yes.
Q. What - - what documents did you review?
A. It was a transcript of my initial interview
22 with one of the officers. I think Courtney, Officer
23 Courtney maybe.
24 Q. Is this the one that was very soon after the
25 event?
Schrnitt & Lehmann, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
16
A. Yes.
Q. Any others?
A. No.
Q. Any other documents I meant.
A. No.
Q. Okay. Have you talked to any lawyers about
these events involving Mr. Chasse?
A. About the events or about this deposition?
Q. No, about the events.
A. No, I have not talked to any attorneys about
the event.
Q. Now, talked to some - - I'm guessing you
talked to some lawyers, somebody about this deposition
itself. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Which ones have you talked to?
A. I believe I spoke with you and I spoke with
you. So Miss Back and, I'm sorry, I forgot your - -
Q. Mr. Steenson.
Or you're gesturing towards Mr. Steenson. I
assume that's who you're talking about?
A. Yes, this gentleman to my right.
Q. And in either of those conversations, did
you discuss more than the - - just the sort of the
timing and place arrangements for the deposition

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
17
itself?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Have you ever gone back to that
intersection at Everett and 13th since the time of the
events we're talking about, and those were on
September the 17th, 2006?
A. Yes, I've been back there.
Q. And when you went back there, was that for
the purpose of seeing it - - seeing the location with
respect to these events?
A. No.
Q. Was that to go to the Blue Hour?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
All right. And you testified at a grand
jury proceeding that related to Mr. Chasse's death; is
that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you talk to the Portland Police
Bureau detectives about this incident involving
Mr. Chasse?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. How many times did you talk to them
besides the time that you had the transcript that you
reviewed?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
18
A. Just that one time.

Q. Let's see, other than - - well, strike that.
1'11 go on.
Now, like I said before, the - - the event
that we're talking about involving Mr. Chasse was on
September 17th, 2006, and that was a Sunday. Is that
how you remember it?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you working that day?
A. NO.
Q. And as I understand it, you were a customer
at the Blue Hour at the time you observed these
events --
A. Yes.
Q. - - is that right?
And you were there with Ms. Gaylord; is that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And were y'all having anything to
drink that day?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you drinking?
A. I think I had a martini.
Q. Now, let me premise my remarks by saying I'm
not trying to embarrass you or give you a bad time and

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
19
1 I'm not going to go very far with this, but do you
2 know how many that you had?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How many?
5 A. I hadn't even had one yet.
6 Q. Okay. And were y'all doing something else
7 that day besides just going to the Blue Hour to have
8 a - - a meal and a visit? Had you been doing something
9 else and then going there?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What were y'all there doing?
12 A. We had gone and see the play Wicked at the
13 Keller Auditorium.
14 Q. And this was after y'all had been to the
15 matinee; is that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now, I'm gathering from what you're saying
18 that y'all had already come to the restaurant, been
19 seated before these events started to unfold out on
20 the street. Is that right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you order what you were going to order,
23 had the waitress been or the wait person been by?
24 A. I believe we had just ordered.
25 Q. And then we'll get to the details of the

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
20
event in a minute, but - - well, I was going to say,

how long did you stay, but what I mean is not so much
in terms of did you stay 20 minutes or an hour or five
minutes or whatever, but in terms of this event taking
place on the street while you were there, how long
were you there after the initial events took place?
In other words, did - - did the police officers and the
ambulance and so forth, did they go away while you
were still at the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And so you were still sitting there
after everything that was going on on the street had
dispersed and gone away?
A. Not totally.
Q. Okay. Well, tell me what you mean by that.
A. There were still - - the ambulance had left.
Q. M-hm.
A. The patrol cars had left. And there was - -
I think there was still one patrol car there and there
was a fire engine there.
Q. Did y'all stay to, you know, eat your meal
and have a drink and then pay and leave or did these
events cause you to get up and go before you'd
finished?
A. No, they did not cause us to get up and go.
Schrnitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
We stayed until we had finished.

Q. Okay. Now, what I'd like for you to do is
just to describe for me, you know, what caught your
attention and then what you saw happen on the street
outside the restaurant involving Mr. Chasse.
A. Okay. Well, we heard it before we saw it.
It was loud. And then we saw a group of men running
around the corner which I guess would be is that
Everett - -
Q. All right.
A. - - and 13th, and we saw the group go to the
ground. There was a lot of yelling which is what we
heard.
Q. Let me stop you there for just a second.
A. Okay.
Q. How many people in this group?
A. There were four.
Q. How many of them - - Mr. Chasse was one of
them?
A. Yes.
Q. And the other three were - - did they appear
to be police officers?
A. Police officers.
Q. Were the police officers dressed
identically?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
22
1 A. Two were in blue and one was in green.
2 Q. Okay. So I stopped you. You heard them
3 coming around the corner, saw them, there was lots of
4 yelling, and then what did you see?
5 A. I saw them take him down to the ground.
6 Q. Okay. Can - - describe for me, as best you
7 can, how that appeared to happen.
8 A. To the best of my recollection, he -- they
9 had his arms twisted behind his back and they were
10 using their bodies to take him down to the ground.
11 And, you know, it happened quickly so - - but I just
12 remember them coming down and their knees going into
13 him and I thought he had hit his head.
14 There was a lot of screaming, a lot of
15 screaming. And ow, ow, ow, and no, no, no. He kept
16 saying that over and over. And they just -- I just
17 remember the arms twisted behind his back and - - and
18 then they had him on the ground.
19 Q. Now, did you see the officers have his arms
20 behind his back before the group went to the ground?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. So the officers had their hands on
23 Mr. Chasse before the group went to the ground?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Did you see any of the officers appear to

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
23
1 wrap their arms around Mr. Chasse's body? Could you
2 see that?
3 A. I don't recall that.
4 Q. Okay. I'll make a brief speech. We'd say I
5 don't remember that in response to a lot of things,
6 but sometimes we mean in my recollection of the event
7 what you are suggesting to me, that didn't happen.
8 Sometimes we mean in my recollection of the event,
9 what you are suggesting may have happened, it may not
10 have happened, I just cannot remember or don't know
11 whether it happened or not. So when you say I don't
12 remember that, do you mean one of those two things?
13 A. Give your speech again. I just lost you.
14 Q. Okay.
15 Okay. I'll try again. Well, here's the
16 thing. Sometimes what we mean is somebody's asking us
17 about an event and we say I don't remember that, but
18 what we mean is what the questioner is suggesting to
19 us, in our recollection that thing didn't happen, I
2o didn't see that happen. Sometimes what we mean is
21 what you're suggesting to me, questioner, it may have
22 happened, it may not have happened, either I can't
23 remember whether it happened or not or I couldn't see
24 it well enough to tell you whether or not that's the
25 way it happened or not.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
24
1 So when you say - - I said did you see them

2 put their arms around Mr. Chasselsbody and you said I
3 don't remember that, do you mean in my recollection
4 that didn't happen or do you mean that may have
5 happened, that may not have happened, I couldn't
6 really say whether it did or not?
7 A. That may have happened but I can't say.
8 There were a lot of arms and there were a lot of limbs
9 and I don't remember if one specific officer wrapped
10 their arms around him or not. I don't remember that.
11 Q. Okay. That's what I was getting at. Thank
12 you.
13 Okay. So I interrupted you. But they had
14 had his arms behind him while all were still standing
15 and then all went to the ground together; is that
16 right?
17 A. M-hm.
18 Q. And who was on the top and who was on the
19 bottom?
20 A. Well, Chasse was definitely on the bottom,
21 and there - - he was down on the ground, there was one
22 officer in front of him down and then there were two
23 behind him, one more up towards his back and
24 midsection and one more towards his thighs and such,
25 and they were on him from the back.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
25
1 Q. Did they appear to be not standing?

2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. Their legs were - - were crouched or
4 in some way underneath them so that they were lowered
5 down to the level of the ground and his body; is that
6 right?
7 A. One officer had his legs -- his knees, he
8 was kneeing him in the back.
9 Q. M-hm.
10 A. The other officer in front was I think
11 crouching. I don't know if his knees were in contact
12 with the ground. He was down low. And the other - -
13 the third officer was also down bent over. I'm not
sure if he was in full contact but he was certainly
down lower. He was not in a full, upright position.
Q. So does that mean that the one officer that
appeared to be at his - - at his legs, at his thighs,
that part, I'm understanding from what you're saying
that he was the one that had his knees into
Mr. Chasse?
A. No. It was the second officer that was more
up towards his shoulders and back area that was - -
Q. And when you say he had his knees into him,
do you mean to say that he was striking a blow with
his knees or did he just have his knees on
Schmitt & Lehmam, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
26
1 Mr. Chasse's body as if he were restraining him or
2 what do you mean by had his knees into him?
3 A. He was using his knees as a method to
4 restrain.
5 Q. Okay. Did either of the other two officers,
6 either the one at the legs or the one who appeared to
7 be ahead of Mr. Chassers body where Mr. Chasse was
8 laying on the ground, did they appear to be using
9 their knees in the same way?
10 A. There might have - - yes, I think the - - the
11 one at the back was also using his knees to hold to
12 restrain, but he wasn't as far down as the other one
13 was. He was a little higher up.
14 Q. You're talking about in terms of his
15 position with relation to the ground?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay, okay. I interrupted you. So they go
18 to the ground, they're in the positions that you've
19 described. And then what happened after that?
20 A. Well, I heard a lot of get down, get down,
21 no, no, ow, ow, ow. Those were the general comments
22 and they were repeated over and over. And then I
23 heard the officer - - one of them, I believe it was the
24 one in front, say don't bite me, and then I saw his
25 hand go into him. It looked like a punch to me.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
27
1 Q. And where did that punch appear to land on
2 Mr. Chasselsbody?
3 A. It appeared to land somewhere in the
4 proximity of where he was crouched in front of. I
5 didn't see it actually land. I just saw the arm come
6 back and go in. But the officer was kind of blocking
7 - - his body was blocking his head.
8 Q. When you say blocking, you mean blocking
9 from your view?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. So does that mean that you couldn't see
12 where this punch appeared to land, whether it was his
13 midsection or his chest or his head?
14 A. It appeared to be heading towards his
15 midsection, but I didn't see it land.
16 Q. Okay. Did you see any of the other officers
17 appear to strike any blows with their hands?
18 A. I did not see any other fists. I did see
19 their hands being used as restraints.
2o Q. In the interests of completeness, did you
21 see any of the officers appear to use either their
22 forearms or their elbows to strike any blows to
23 Mr. Chasse?
24 A. They definitely used their limbs to control
25 his movements. Whether that was their forearm or

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
28
1 their elbow I couldn't say, but they were using - -
2 they had his arms twisted behind his back and they
3 were using their body to restrain him.
4 Q. Okay. Did you see any of the officers
5 strike any blows to Mr. Chasse with their feet, like
6 they were kicking him?
7 A. I did not see any kicks.
8 Q. Now, besides what you've already told us
9 about them appearing to use their knees as part of
10 their maneuvers to restrain Mr. Chasselsmovements --
11 and I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is that

12 accurate about what you were telling me before?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. Did you see them appear to rear back
15 and strike blows with their knees to Mr. Chassels
16 body?
17 A. I would say that they definitely
18 repositioned themselves. Whether it was a blow or
19 with force I couldnlt say that. But they definitely
2o used their limbs to hold him down. And there was
21 obviously pressure and phtting their whole bodies
22 behind the attempt to hold him down. And it was
23 apparent that they were restraining him.
24 Q. Okay. So I interrupted you again and we
25 were up to the three officers in the positions that

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
29
1 you described and they're trying to restrain him, have
2 his arms behind his back, and they're using various
3 parts of their bodies trying to restrain his
4 movements. How long did this - - would you describe it
5 as a struggle? Is that a fair description?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. How long did this struggle appear to
8 go on?
9 A. I would say it - - it probably took up to
10 five minutes, you know, give or take a minute.
11 Q. Well, in - - in your estimation, in your
12 opinion, as you watched this go on, did that appear to
13 be because the officers were having trouble bringing
14 Mr. Chasse under control? I mean, was he continuing
15 to struggle with them?
16 A. He was obviously in great distress and he
17 was very vocal. Mr. Chasse was - - he was fighting the
18 restraint and - - but in my opinion, I would say that
19 he was fighting the restraint because he was in pain
20 because he was trying - - you could see him trying to
21 get away from the pressure of it.
22 Q. Now, can you describe for me -- well, let me
23 put it this way: If the struggle lasted approximately
24 five minutes, which I'll take your word for, can you
25 describe for me how it seemed to wind down and come to

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
30
an end as a struggle?
A. Well, they got him down on the ground and he
was struggling and then he stopped and then you just
heard him moaning and he was - - and they kind of
pulled off of him. And at that point, that's when the
paramedics came in.
Q. Now, did you see the officers put any kind
of restraints on Mr. Chasselshands or arms?
9 A. He appeared to be restrained at both the
10 feet and the arms.
11 Q. Can you describe for me what the devices
12 used to restrain him, what they looked like? Could
13 you tell?
A. I couldn't tell.
Q. Did his feet - - whatever was restraining his
feet, did it appear to be attached to whatever was
restraining his hands?
A. He - - he appeared to be not in a typical
position. It was almost like he was trying to curl up
into a fetal, but his legs were up behind him and his
hands were up behind him, but he was trying to cover
his - - his midsection.
Q. When you say his feet were up, do you mean
his knees were bent?
A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
31
Q. Did his -- so his leg from his thigh to his
2 shins, did that appear to be at like a 90-degree angle
3 or were his heels closer to his back or were his heels
further from his back than a 90-degree position?
A. It would be hard to describe that because he
was trying to curl into the fetal position and he
was - - his hands were behind his back and his legs
were drawn up behind him but yet he kept trying to
bring his knees to his chest, so I couldn't tell you
if it was a 90-degree angle.
Q. Okay. Now, did you observe any of the
officers to do anything that gave you the impression
that they were calling for somebody, like paramedics
or somebody else to come there, could you see them
using a radio --
A. No.
Q. - - or any device like that?
Now, as I understand what you're telling me,
Mr. Chasse stopped struggling and then soon thereafter
the paramedics arrived?
A. M-hm.
22 Q. Was it - - was it instantaneous or was it
23 within a few seconds or can you estimate how long
24 between the time you noticed him to stop struggling
25 and when you see the -- and when I say the

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
Diane Loghry, 7/28/2008 Chasse v. Hurnphreys, et al.
32
1 paramedics - - 1'11 get to that question in a minute.
2 How long before they showed up?
3 A. Moments, so a few minutes.
4 Q. All right. During the time - - during the
5 time between when you noticed Mr. Chasse to stop
6 struggling and you say the paramedics arrived, what
7 did you observe the officers to do?
8 A. Well, they still were down -- the one in
9 front, they were talking to each other. I assumed
10 they were talking to him. They were searching him. I
11 would say - - and the one at - - that was at his back
12 stood up.
13 Q. Was this the officer in green or was this
14 the officer in blue, do you remember?
15 A. I don't remember.
16 Q. So the - - go on. The officer at the back
17 stood up.
18 A. The one that had been more to -- at his legs
19 stood up, and the other one in front appeared to be
20 crouching by his head, and at that point I could kind
21 of see his head, and he -- he shifted his body so I
22 could see. And then Mr. Chasse was moaning a lot. He
23 was obviously in great distress. And, you know, I
24 couldn't hear what the officers were saying to each
25 other. They appeared to be talking to each other.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Diane Loghry, 7 / 2 8 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
33
And then the paramedics came.

Q. And when you say the paramedics came, are
you talking about an ambulance or fire truck or both
or what do you mean by that?
A. A fire truck and an ambulance came, a
medical response.
Q. Which one got there first?
A. I think they arrived pretty simultaneously.
Q. All right. So the fire truck and the
ambulance pull up and then what happens?
A. And then the paramedics come over. I
believe it was a woman and a man. The woman bends
down. And at that point, you know, I was having a
conversation with Melissa and so I wasn't watching it
a hundred percent because I figured they were dealing
with him and he was getting care and - -
Q. When you say that the - - the female
paramedic bent down, you mean she bent down by
Mr. Chasse?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any of the paramedics speak to
any of the officers before somebody went to
Mr. Chasse?
A. They may have. I don't - - don't recall
that. They were all talking to each other. I don't

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
34
1 know if they did that prior to going to see
2 Mr. Chasse, but they were definitely having
3 conversations with each other.
4 Q. And how long would you say the paramedics
5 were present?
6 A. At the entire -- for the entire length of
7 time they were there?
8 Q. Yes.
9 Well, let me - - I should clarify that a
10 little bit, make sure I'm saying what I mean. The
11 female paramedic bent down by Mr. Chasse and there was
12 a male paramedic with her - -
13 A. M-hm.
14 Q. - - and they were in identical uniforms; is
15 that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And then there were some other guys who got
18 out of the fire truck; right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And their uniforms were different than the
21 two people from the ambulance, do you remember that?
22 A. They were in - - yeah, I think they had dark
23 blue uniforms on.
24 Q. Okay. Well, the point of my asking that is
25 I'm trying to find out if you can differentiate, in

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
35
1 your memory, between the people that got out of the
2 ambulance and the people that came from the fire
3 truck?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. Did the people from the fire truck
6 appear to be taking some kind of hands-on approach to
7 Mr. Chasse or were the people from the ambulance doing
8 more of that or how did that look to you?
9 A. I would say it was more the people from the
10 ambulance.
11 Q. Okay. And how did Mr. Chasse appear to
12 react to the contact? And I don't necessarily mean
13 physical contact. I'm going to start with the
14 interaction between himself and the people that came
15 from the ambulance.
16 A. Well, again, he was moaning a lot and he was
17 apparently very - - in great distress and physical --
18 you could hear him. You know, he sounded like he was

19 hurt.
20 And I recall Melissa and I having the
21 conversation that - - 'cause when we saw him go down we
22 thought he had hit his head. We didn't know if he had
23 a concussion. I was sure his arm was dislocated
24 because they had it so wrenched behind his back. So I
25 thought that's where the pain was coming from. And so

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
36
1 the paramedic was having - - you know, was
2 administering.
3 Q. Well, I guess what I'm getting at, and 1'11
4 try and be a little more clear, you described the
5 struggle with the officers and then Mr. Chasse kind of
6 stopped struggling, officers seemed to stand up, and
7 then soon thereafter the ambulance and fire truck
8 arrive, and the people from the ambulance are going
9 over there to Mr. Chasse. Did his demeanor change as
10 he interacted with them or did he remain sort of quiet
11 and not struggling?
12 A. I don't remember him struggling again, other
13 than a lot of moaning. And so he might have been, you
14 know, rolling around on the ground a little bit. They
15 did examine him, from what I could see, and then - -
16 and then they picked him up. And we assumed he was
17 going in the ambulance, and they put him in the patrol
18 car.
19 Q. Okay. Let me step back a couple events.
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. How many officers - - was it the same three
22 officers that you had seen from the beginning who were
23 there with Mr. Chasse at the time the ambulance and
24 the fire truck arrived?
25 A. I believe so.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
37
Q. Did you see any others?
A. There was another patrol car that came up as
well.
Q. Did it come up before or at the same time or
after the fire truck and the ambulance?
A. I would say the patrol cars got there first,
before the ambulance and the - - and the fire trucks.
And then they blocked off the street. You know, we
were on -- Blue Hour's on 13th. There was a patrol
car right kind of in front and then one over here off
of 13th that we could see.
Q. Now, you saw the people from the ambulance
over by Mr. Chasse, the officers are standing there,
the guys from the fire struck are standing there.
Right?
A. M-hm.
Q. And at some point you said somebody picked
Mr. Chasse up, you thought they were going to the
ambulance but they took him to a patrol car. Right?
A. M-hm.
Q. The people that appeared to pick Mr. Chasse
up, did they - - could you tell whether those were some
of the three officers that you initially saw?
A. I don't remember if they were the same
officers .

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
38
1 Q. Can you describe for me - -

2 A. They were in blue.
3 Q. Okay. Can you describe for me how they
4 picked him up? In other words, did they pick him up
5 by his heads and legs or by his arms or --
6 A. They picked him up under his arms and he

7 wasn't walking of his own volition.
8 Q. Were his legs still bent at the knee when
9 they were -- when they were taking him to the --
lo A. There was still some --
11 Q. - - patrol car?
12 A. - - bend of the knee, yes.
13 Q. So when you say he was not walking on his
14 own volition, was he walking at all or did they have
15 him entirely lifted off the ground so he wasn't
16 touching the ground?
17 A. They had him off the ground.
18 Q. Did you hear any of the interaction between
19 the officers and the people from the ambulance?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Now, you said that you thought they were
22 going to take him to the ambulance but they took him
23 to the patrol car. Right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Were you surprised by that?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
39
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. Why were you surprised by that?
3 A. Because, to my eye, he was hurt and we
4 assumed he was going to go get medical care.
5 Q. Did you observe anything that gave you the
6 impression that there was any kind of debate about
7 whether he should go in the ambulance or the police
8 car?
9 A. I couldn't speak to a debate. There was
10 discussion. I mean, they were certainly having a
11 conversation, but I was - - I couldn't hear it.
12 Q. Now, what was your - - what was your personal
13 impression as you watched these events unfold? Did it
14 appear to you to be - - and these terms - - I don't mean
15 these terms to mean some specific thing and you may
16 certainly change them if you'd like. I don't want to
17 put words in your mouth. But did you -- did it appear
18 to you to be somehow grossly unfair or particularly
19 brutal or - - you know, what was your reaction, your
20 general reaction, to the events that you saw unfold?
21 A. It was pretty intense and it was pretty
22 violent and there was excessive force used to bring
23 him down. That was my opinion. And it - - it appeared
24 that they were hurting him.
25 Q. When you say they, you're talking about the

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
40
officers?
A. The officers.
And they went down hard onto the ground.
Q. Okay. Now, I donrt want you to
misunderstand me. I'm not trying to get you to change
your opinion, but I'm - - I am interested in trying to
understand it as best I can. So when you said just
now you said it appeared they used excessive force to
bring Mr. Chasse to the ground, can you elaborate on
that a little bit for me and tell me what you mean by
excessive force? Was there something you thought they
could have done differently or should have done
differently?
A. Well, I couldn't speak to what I think they
should have done - - or what - - you know, what - - I
wasn't the person doing that.
Q. M-hm.
A. But it appeared to me that there were three
guys on one guy and he wasn't very big and they took
him down pretty - - very hard.
Q. Did you observe the officers to do anything
that, in your opinion or your observation, appeared to
be gratuitous, like something they were just doing for
the hell of it, or did it look to you like once they
had him down and restrained they were off of him, or

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
41
. what was your opinion about that?

A. I would not say that any of their actions
were gratuitous. They were fully intent on taking him
down to the ground, and it was evident in how they
facilitated that, that by whatever cost they were
taking him down to the ground.
Q. Okay. Now, you talked about -- a couple
times about that it was loud and you heard Mr. Chasse
both saying ow and saying no and you heard him
moaning. Did the volume of his voice change over the
course of the event that you observed?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Sort of describe that for me, how
the - - the volume or quality of Mr. Chasse's voice
seemed to change over the event.
A. Well, as he came running down the street he
was much louder than when he ended on the ground where
it was more of a whimpering, moaning, distressful
sound, so the volume decreased as the incident
progressed.
Q. Did you - - after he was on the ground, did
you hear Mr. Chasse say anything that was distinct
enough for you to understand what he was saying?
A. I heard no repeatedly.
Q. Any other distinct words?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
42
A. Ow.
Q. All right. When you were watching
Mr. Chasse and the officers on the ground, besides
moving his arms and legs, did he appear to turn his
torso from side to side or twist his hips from side to
side?
A. He appeared to try to crawl into that fetal
position. He was trying to pull himself in in kind of
almost a protective mode. He was - - he was trying to
arch himself away, but interior. He wasn't like doing
a - - I mean, I think there were a couple of back
arches, but I think that's when they were bringing his
legs up. But for the most part, he was trying to - -
and he was on his side. He was trying to roll into
himself.
Q. Did you ever see Mr. Chasse with his - - his
front part, his chest and his stomach, his abdomen,
flat on the ground with his back facing the sky?
A. I don't recall that.
20 Q. Did he appear to be on one side or the other
21 the whole time?
22 A. He was on side -- on his side. On his side
23 and on his front.
24 Q. When you say on his side and on his front,
25 do you mean sort of simultaneously, partly on one,

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
43
1 partly on the other, or do you mean he went from being
2 on his side to his front or to his side, or something
3 different? Like I said, I'm not trying to make this
4 up for you. I'm trying to get you to tell me.
5 A. He - - he - - they wanted him face down.
6 That's - - that was the position they were trying to
7 get him into it appeared. And he was more on his left
8 side with partial front down, but you could still see
9 him kind of twisted up.
10 Q. Okay. Now, were you ever able to see
11 Mr. Chassels face clear enough to make any
12 observations about the color of his face, whether he
13 was flushed or whether he was pale or anything like
14 that?
15 A. I couldn't say that.
16 Q. Same thing with his hands, could you tell
17 anything about his hands?
18 A. Other than they were behind his back, no.
19 Q. All right. Now, you also mentioned that you
20 heard one of the officers say don't bite me - -
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. -- is that right?
23 Did you actually observe Mr. Chasse to bite
24 anybody?
25 A. NO.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
44
1 Q. Did you observe his face or his mouth well
2 enough to be able to see whether he had his mouth open
3 or was straining towards anybody - -
4 A. No.
5 Q. -- anything like that?
6 Did you ever see any of the officers use any
7 kind of an object to strike Mr. Chasse?
8 A. I did not see that.
9 Q. Do you know what a -- do you know what a
10 Taser unit looks like?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Did you see anybody use one of those?
13 A. I did not see that, but I did hear somebody
14 say, oh, they just Tasered him.
15 Q. Now, while you were still at the scene - -
16 well, we keep saying that. While you were still at
17 the Blue Hour --
18 A. M-hm.
19 Q. - - did you have any verbal contact with any
20 officer?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Didn't hear anything any officer said?
23 A. NO.
24 Q. Did you see any blood on Mr. Chasse?
25 A. I did not see blood, no.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
45
1 Q. All right. Now, I kind of - - I kind of
2 interrupted you earlier. We'd gotten to the place
3 where the paramedics had been down beside Mr. Chasse
4 and then we jumped to the officers having picked him
5 up, you thought they were going to the ambulance but
6 they took him to the patrol car.
7 A. M-hm.
8 Q. Between the time that the - - the paramedics,
9 the people from the ambulance, first appeared to kneel
10 down or crouch down near Mr. Chasse and the time that
11 the officers picked him up to carry him away, what did
12 you observe happen during that time?
13 A. You know, I think at that point I kind of
14 stopped watching it so intently because I think our
15 food had arrived and I felt like he was getting care
16 and it was getting resolved, so, you know, I - - I saw
17 the paramedics down with him and having the
18 conversation with the police officers, kind of
19 standing around for a while. When I say for a while I
20 mean a few moments, a few minutes.
21 Q. Okay. And what happened after you saw the
22 officers take Mr. Chasse away? What did you observe
23 to happen after that?
24 A. After they put him in the patrol car they
25 left and the ambulance left. And it wasn't long after

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
46
1 that, maybe about five minutes, we got up and left.
2 And it appeared that there was some vomit on the
3 ground and there was a police officer - - or it was one
4 of the -- it might have been a fireman cleaning the
5 scene. And it didn't - - as hard as he hit his head,
6 it didn't surprise me if he had vomited because - -
7 that's what it looked like to me.
8 Q. Okay. Can we go off for about two or three
9 minutes and I'm probably done.
10 We can go off.
11 (Recess: 10:15 to 10:18 AM.)
12 Q. (By Mr. Landrum) All right. Well, I'm going
13 to stop there, Miss Loghry. Thank you very much. I
14 think some of the other attorneys might have questions
15 for you.
16 A. Okay.
17 EXAMINATION
18 BY MS. DUNAWAY:
19 Q. You said that you went to see a play earlier
20 in the afternoon; is that right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What was the play about?
23 A. Wicked.
24 Q. M-hm.
25 A. It's the true story of the Wizard of Oz.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
47
1 Q. Okay. What does that mean, the true story?
2 A. It's - - it was based on a book and it was
3 told from the - - the viewpoint of the wicked witch,
4 that she really wasn't so wicked.
5 Q. And how is it that you know Miss Gaylord?
6 A. We went to high school together.
7 Q. And where was that?
8 A. At Hudson's Bay High School in Vancouver,
9 Washington.
10 Q. And earlier you testified that when you were
11 working with children in special ed that occasionally
12 you would have to restrain them?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What techniques would you use to restrain
15 them?
16 A. Well, restraint was always the last
17 recourse, that was always the last option. So if I
18 had to do a physical restraint, typically I did a hand
19 over hand and you wrap your hands - - you grab a wrist
20 and you cross their wrists and you're coming from
21 behind them so that their arms are crossed in front of
22 them and then they can't -- and then you can
23 physically move them to another point to get them away
24 from causing harm to others or to themselves.
25 Q. Did the children occasionally cause harm to

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
48
other children then?

A. They could, yes.
Q. They could.
And you actually witnessed that - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - that they did?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive any training in regard to
how to restrain the children?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you receive that training?
A. It was through a workshop put on by the
district.
Q. And who did the training? I mean, you said
the -- but specifically you said the school district,
but what was the background - -
A. I can't remember. I can't remember who it
was. I'd have to go back and look and see.
Q. Was it someone from - - with a law
enforcement background?
A. It was not somebody with a law enforcement
background I don't believe. It was somebody that was
an educational consultant with training in dealing
with difficult children.
Q. And how long ago did you receive that

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
training?
A. 15 years ago.
Q. And how many times? How many times did you

receive training?
A. That course was - - was several Wednesday
afternoons so it was like - - you know, like three
Wednesday afternoons that for four hours each so a
total of 12 hours of training on that. And then there
was another course I took about controlling student
behavior, that was through the University of Oregon.
And that was probably 18 years ago.
Q. And out of all those hours, the only
physical restraint that they taught you was to come up
behind and - -
A. No, that was not the only physical. There
were others. That was my most successful method.
It's the one that I found caused the least amount of
stress for everybody involved.
Q. Okay. What other restraints did they teach
you then?
A. There were some that you could take children
down to a sitting position and restrain them in a
sitting position using your legs to - - to hold them
down.
Q. You would take them down from a standing

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040
position to a sitting position?

A. Yes. And you could - - it's almost like a
cradling hold on them, again, coming from their back
because that is the most protective position.
Q. So coming - - you would come up behind them
and then use your body weight to bring them down into
a sitting position?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you never had to use that particular
hold?
A. I had to restrain a child on the ground one
time and did have to use my legs because he was
kicking and I put one leg over his legs. But he was
sitting in front of me so I had his arms like this and
I put one leg in front of him to hold him so he could
not kick the person who was trying to talk to him.
Q. Okay. Who was trying to talk to him?
A. The principal.
Q. How did the principal happen to wind up
there?
A. He was escorted to the principal's office.
Q. Oh. So this all occurred in the principal's
office?
A. He was - - I escorted him down in the hold
and I tried to put him in a chair in her office so

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
51
1 that he wasn't in the classroom causing harm to other
2 children, and then I had to restrain him again, a
3 second time, in the class -- in the principal's office
4 because he was continuing to be out of control.
5 Q. And how old was he?
6 A. Six.
7 Q. And I believe that you said that the group
8 of children that you were using these restraints on
9 were in the age group of, say, three to seven - -
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. - - is that right?
12 And you said you're five ten?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. So I'm assuming none of these children were
15 bigger than you?
16 A. (Shakes head. )
17 Q. Okay. When - - when the group was still
18 running, were you able to make out anything that
19 Mr. Chasse was saying?
2o A. I heard him say no, no.
21 Q. So as he's running down the street you're
22 hearing him say no, no?
23 A. M-hm.
24 Q. Did you hear anything that the officers were
25 saying?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Diane Loghry, 7 / 2 8 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v . Humphreys, e t a l .
52
A. Get down, get down.

Q. So as they're running they're commanding him
to - -
A. Get down.
Q. - - to get down?
Not to stop running, but just to stop and

get down on the ground?
A. I heard - -
MR. STEENSON: Objection, argumentative,
misstates her testimony, leading.
MS. DUNAWAY: I'm asking.
MR. STEENSON: Let - - let her finish her
answers.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) Did you hear them saying
that they were - - he was to get just down on the
ground, not to stop but just to get down on the
ground?
A. I heard - -
MR. STEENSON: Still misstates her
testimony, go down.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) I'm asking if that's what
you said?
MR. STEENSON: And I can make my objection.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I said that they said to
get down on the ground.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
53
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) They did say get down on

the ground?
A. M-hm.
Q. But you never heard them say stop?
A. I don't recall them saying stop, but it was
loud. And I heard Mr. Chasse and get down, get down
from the officers more than I heard anything else.
Q. Get down.
So they may have said stop?
A. They may have, I don't recall.
Q. You just didn't hear it?
A. I don't recall if they said it or not.
Q. And how would you describe Mr. Chassels
stature?
A. He was of slim build, maybe five eight, five
nine, I don't - - he was running and I didn't really
ever see him fully upright.
Q. And how was he dressed?
A. He had on dark pants and a - - I think maybe
a flannel shirt or something, you know, some kind of a
shirt, T-shirt.
Q. And - - and what color hair did he have?
A. He had dark hair.
Q. Dark, darker than yours?
A. I would say it was probably a medium brown.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
54
1 Q. So that would be darker than yours?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. And did he have any facial hair?
4 A. I don't recall.
5 Q. And do you recall if he was carrying
6 anything?
7 A. I didn't see him carrying anything. His
8 arms were twisted behind his back.
9 Q. Well, before he was -- when he was running
10 did you see him carrying anything?
11 A. When he was running they already had ahold
12 of his arms trying to get him down.
13 Q. Okay. And who's they?
14 A. The police officers.
15 Q. Okay. So three police officers had ahold of
16 two arms?
17 A. As they came around the corner - -
18 Q. M-hm.
19 A. - - and they were yelling and they were
20 telling him to get down, they had ahold of his arms
21 already wrenched behind his back and he continued to
22 run. That's why they a11 came down together.
23 Q. Okay. I'm trying to figure out who's they.
24 You said - -
25 A. The police officers. I'm not sure if it was

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
55
1 six hands on him or four hands - -
2 Q. Or two.
3 A. - - or two hands - - it was at least four. I
4 know they each -- they had arms behind his back.
5 Q. Okay. I'm trying to get the picture in my
6 mind.
7 A. M-hm.
8 Q. And there's between two to four hands on
9 him - -
10 A. Yes.
12 And while he's running they're able to grab
13 ahold of his arms and pull his arms behind his back,
14 is that what your recollection is?
15 A. Say that again, please.
16 Q. They're running down the street, there's
17 three officers, there's between two to six arms
18 amongst the officers, and while he is running they are
19 able to grab his arms and pull his arms behind his
2o back - -
21 A. As they came - -
22 Q. - - is that what you're saying?
23 A. As they came around the corner they had

24 ahold of his arm and they were pulling his arms behind
25 his back which caused - - I mean, it appeared that's

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
56
1 maybe what got him off balance, too, because he was

2 continuing to run and was saying no and - -
3 Q. So he was still running with his arms kind
4 of pulled behind his back?
5 A. Yeah. But not for very long.
6 Q. And you're not sure if it was two officers
7 or one officer or three officers?
8 A. No.
9 Q. And then if I understood - - as I'm trying to
10 kind of like envision what you're saying like a movie
11 in my head while you're testifying for Mr. Landrum, if
12 I understood it, the picture I got in my head was that
13 all of a sudden at some point then they all go down in
14 a heap.
15 A. It -- it did appear that they called tumbled
16 down together, yes.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. But it was evident that they were the force
19 that took him down.
2o Q. Okay. So - -
21 A. He did not go down of his own volition.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. He did not choose to go down.
24 Q. Okay. Much like the students when you
25 pulled them down, right, from a standing position into

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
57
1 a sitting position? They didn't go down of their own
2 volition; correct?
3 A. No.
4 Q. So Mr. Chasse didn't go down of his own
5 volition either?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Okay. From where you were sitting, how did
8 you see Mr. Chasse hit the ground? What position was
9 he in?
10 A. He came around the corner. He landed on the
11 ground on his left side hitting hard. Is that what
12 you asked me?
13 Q. Okay. On his - - so he landed on his left
14 side. I thought earlier you had said he landed on
15 his - - so that his head hit?
16 A. His head did hit. He hit on his left side.
17 Q. Okay. So what you saw was you saw his head
18 hit hard - -
19 A. M-hm.
20 Q. -- is that right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And at the end of this, the - - the reason
23 why you were concerned about injuries was that from
24 where you were sitting you thought his injuries were
25 possibly a concussion and possibly a shoulder

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
1 dislocation - -
2 A. Yes.
4 And did you see any other injuries?
5 A. NO.
Q. What were the - - the statures of the police

officers?
A. I'm sorry, the stature?
Q. The statures.
A. The statures.
I would guess - - I mean, I - - as I recall,
they were probably - - none of them were super tall. I
would - - I would say that they were all between five
nine to six feet tall, built. You know, they had - - I
mean, average build. I wouldn't consider any of them
super buff or super slim or any -- I mean, they were
just average build.
Q. Okay. Did you hear any commands being given
by the officers when Mr. Chasse was on the ground?
A. I think they said stay down and then I heard
the don't bite me, and that was it.
Q. And after the struggle was over, did you see
any injuries on any of the officers?
A. No.
Q. Did you see any of the paramedics who

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
59
1 arrived on the scene give any medical attention to the
2 officers?
3 A. Not to my recollection, no.
4 Q. And I think that you testified that the
5 struggle went on for about five minutes. Is that
6 right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Were you at all surprised that Mr. Chasse
9 was able to keep the officers at bay for five minutes?
10 MR. STEENSON: Objection, argumentative,
11 leading. Go ahead.
12 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) You can answer.
13 A. Can you restate that?
14 Q. Were you surprised? You described
15 Mr. Chasse as being thin, about five - - about five
16 nine, you described the officers as being between five
17 nine and six feet, pretty average build. And you also
18 testified that the struggle went on for five minutes.
19 Were you at all surprised that Mr. Chasse was able to
20 keep these officers at bay for five minutes?
21 MR. STEENSON: Same objections.
22 THE WITNESS: Surprised? I'm not sure if
23 surprised is the word. I was - - I thought it went on
24 a while. I thought that - - I thought he was in great
25 distress and that - - whether it was adrenaline pumping

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
60
1 through him, that he was trying to protect himself. I
2 don't know why he continued to struggle, but he was - -
3 he did struggle.
4 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) And he - -
5 A. So was I surprised? I guess a little bit, I
6 don t know.
7 Q. Well, wouldn't you have thought that three
8 officers should have been able to get him under
9 control in a shorter period of time?
10 MR. STEENSON: Objection, calls for
11 speculation.
12 THE WITNESS: I -- I don't know.
13 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) Well, did he continue to be
14 combative during the entire five minutes?
15 MR. STEENSON: Objection, argumentative,
16 leading. Go ahead.
17 THE WITNESS: No, he was not combative
18 during the entire. He was -- he was still struggling
19 and -- he struggled. He - - and he - - and he tried to
20 get out of their hold.
21 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) So he continued to be
22 resistive the entire time?
23 A. Yes, he was resistive, yes.
24 Q. Okay. And from where you were sitting, the
25 officers continued during that time, to try to stop

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
61
1 him from resisting?
2 MR. STEENSON: Objection, calls for
3 speculation.
4 THE WITNESS: Yes, they tried to restrain
5 him. They - - they wanted him to stop. They wanted
6 him to be quiet on the ground.
7 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) Which he was refusing to
8 do?
9 A. He - - he was struggling and he was still
10 saying no and he was moaning during that course of
11 that five minutes, so he was still struggling.
12 Q. Okay. So for five minutes he continues to
13 struggle and resist, the officers continue to try to
14 get him to stop struggling and resisting - -
15 A. M-hm.
16 Q. - - is that correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. How was it that you found out that
19 Mr. Chasse died?
20 A. I happened to be watching the 11 o'clock
21 news that evening and heard that a man in police
22 custody had died, and then the next morning Melissa
23 Gaylord called me and said, oh, my gosh, it's - - it's
24 the same guy we saw, so that's how I found out that
25 that was the same man. I didn't know it was the same

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
62
1 until that next morning.
2 Q. Do you remember - - do you have a normal
3 station you watch for the 11 o'clock news?
4 A. Channel 8 .
5 Q. And then when were you contacted by the
6 detectives?
7 A. A few days later.
8 Q. And how was it that they knew to contact
9 you?
10 A. Melissa had given them my name.
11 Q. When you were answering questions for
12 Mr. Landrum I believe that you said that you thought
13 that the officers had used excessive force.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. What specific acts were taken by
16 the -- the officers that you believed were excessive?
17 A. They used a lot of bodily force to hold him
18 down there. I mean, they -- there was a lot of
19 intensity in their faces to keep him down there. You
20 could see that they were working hard to keep him
21 there. And when I saw the officer appear to strike
22 him, that seemed excessive to me.
23 Q. Okay. So the first thing that you believe
24 to be excessive was that they were holding him down;
25 is that right?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
63
A. The - -
MR. STEENSON: Misstates her testimony.
THE WITNESS: The intensity of how they were
holding him down seemed excessive.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) Well, was - - from where you
were sitting, were they holding him down more than
Mr. Chasse was trying to struggle?
MR. STEENSON: Objection, to the extent it
calls for speculation.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) That's all right. You have
a right to your opinion.
A. Yes, I think they were holding him harder
than he needed to be held.
Q. Why is that? Why do you think that?
A. Because he - - because he - - he stopped
struggling and they continued to hold him.
Q. Okay. What were they doing when he stopped
struggling and they continued to hold him?
A. What were who doing, the police - -
Q. What were the officers doing, m-hm.
A. They continued to apply pressure to his back
with their knees and - - and then they were doing the
restraining with whatever devices they were using.
Q. So he stopped struggling but they were still
holding him down?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
64
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And that's what concerned you?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. Were they doing anything other than
5 just holding him down?
6 A. I don't recall. I mean - -
7 Q. Well, at what point during this - - at some
8 point did you see handcuffs applied?
9 A. A - - well, his arms were continuing to be
10 wrenched behind his back and the force -- that was the
11 part that I thought was really excessive, too, was the
12 arms. I mean, he was not moving his arms at all
13 because they were - - they were so pulled behind his --
14 and up, you know. I mean, it was a very unnatural

15 position for your arm to be in. And I couldn't say if
16 it was handcuffs. They applied some kind of a hand
17 restraint.
18 Q. And the -- he was handcuffed with his arms
19 behind his back?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay, okay. So they were holding him down
22 and that concerned you; correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And they were pulling his arms behind his
25 back and that concerned you?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
65
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. What else concerned you that leads
you to believe that there was excessive force?
A. That he was moaning so loudly, you know, and
was obviously in great distress.
Q. Okay. Anything else?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you -- did you witness any
strikes being - -
A. I saw the officer in front appear to strike
him.
Q. But when you were considering whether or not
there was excessive force, that wasn't one of the
things that you considered - -
A. Yes, that was - -
Q. - - excessive - -
A. - - that was something I thought was
excessive.
Q. At some point I believe you said that you
heard someone say, one of the officers, don't bite me?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Do you know - - have any recollection
whether or not the officer who said don't bite me was
also the officer who punched him - -
A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
66
Q. -- punched Mr. Chasse?
It was the same officer?
A. Yes.
Q. Did it seem to you like it just wasn't a
fair fight?
MR. STEENSON: Objection, vague,
argumentative.
THE WITNESS: Fair is such a relative term.
He - - there were three guys on one. It seemed like - -
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) It just wasn't a fair
fight?
MR. STEENSON: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: That three guys on one, it was
obvious who was going to win the fight.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) M-hm.
Have you ever seen anybody arrested before?
Before Mr. Chasse, had you ever seen anybody arrested?
A. Yes.
Q. Where?
A. I saw somebody arrested at a mall one time.
Q. Can you describe the circumstances of that
arrest?
A. He was caught shoplifting, they turned him
around, put his handcuffs on and took him out. He
didn't argue or struggle.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
67
1 Q. Have you ever seen anybody arrested where
2 there was a struggle?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And have you ever seen a fight? I mean, not
5 on TV, not in the ring, I mean, not a - - you know, not
6 even in martial arts, but have you ever seen - - been
7 somewhere where ordinarily in my experience it would
8 be two males engaged in some kind of physical contact
9 in a bar, on the beach, somewhere?
10 A. I don't remember ever being in - - you know,
11 witnessing a fight.
12 Q. Could you pass that over.
13 (DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 303 was marked for
14 identification.)
15 THE WITNESS: Am I going to have to read
16 something?
17 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) You just have to look at
18 something.
19 Does that look familiar?
20 A. M-hm.
21 Q. Can you figure out what that is?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Okay. Can you first mark - - you see the
24 tables - -
25 A. M-hm.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
68
Q. - - for the Blue Hour?

Can you mark, put -- put your initials where
it was that you were sitting?
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. And - - and also like position them
on - - where on the table actually.
A. I put an X on the side of the table.
Q. Okay. Can you put your initials there?
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. Can you put a No. 1 where it was that
you first saw Mr. Chasse and the officers?
A. Is this - - okay. This is - - this is the
building and this is the sidewalk? I just want to
make sure I'm - - this is the curb?
Q. Right.
A. This is the sidewalk?
Q. This is the sidewalk, right here.
A. Okay.
Q. So where was it that - -
A. I probably saw them first like right about
here.
Q. Okay. And can you put - -
23 A. Or you want a No. l?
24 Q. - - a No. 1.
25 A. M-hm.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
69
1 Q. And can you put a No. 2 on where the

2 officers were with Mr. Chasse when they went down?
3 A. I'd say it was probably - - it was probably
4 around here.
5 Q. Okay. And then a No. 3 where they were when
6 the struggle was over?
7 A. It was still in the same vicinity.
8 Q. Same area?
9 A. M-hm.
10 Q. Okay. Now, I don't know if you're going to
I1 have enough room on there. Could you put a stick
12 figure just showing me where Mr. - - how Mr. Chasse was
13 lying, direction of his head and his feet.
14 A. It's a good thing I teach preschool.
15 Okay. He was facing this direction, but it
16 was more over in this area.
17 Q. Okay. And when the -- the struggle was
18 over, from where he was lying, from where you have the
19 stick figure for Mr. Chasse, can you put an arrow
20 indicating the direction that his face was - - was
21 facing at the end of the struggle? So was it
22 facing - -
23 A. It was facing us.
24 Q. When he was lying on the ground, was he
25 facing the Blue Hour or --

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
70
A. M-hm.
Q. - - away?
A. Yes, he was facing the Blue Hour.
Q. And you put an X - -
A. I put an arrow by his face.
Q. Okay. Did you stand up to watch?
A. Did I stand up to watch?
Q. Did you stand up to watch?
A. No.
Q. What were the other - - I'm assuming there
were other patrons who were at the Blue Hour at that
time?
A. Yes.
Q. What were they doing during the struggle?
A. We were all watching it.
Q. And everybody was just kind of sitting down
watching the struggle?
A. No. I believe that some people closer to
the Everett side were standing up.
Q. Was there anyone sitting in - - at the table
to your - - that would be - - it would be on your left-
hand side?
A. The last table in the row?
Q. M-hm.
A. Yes, there were.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
71
1 Q. Did you know those people?
2 A. No. But we had a conversation with them.
3 Q. You did?
4 A. M-hm.
5 Q. Okay. Who were they? I mean, what was your
6 conversation?
7 A. They were two gentlemen in for a food show
8 from out of town.
Q. From - - do you remember where they were
from?
A. I think maybe one was from San Francisco, I
think maybe the other one was from New York.
Q. Do you remember anything about that
conversation?
A. I do, only because my husband also works in
the specialty foods area. And they mentioned a
company that he worked with, that's where they had
been, and so that's how the conversation kind of got
started.
Q. Was that conversation before or after the
incident with Mr. Chasse?
A. It was before -- or kind of during.
Q. During, during the entire incident?
A. I'm not sure during the five minutes or
during the entire length of - -

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
72
1 Q. The entire incident meaning from the time

2 you saw them until everybody's gone.
3 A. It was probably during and after.
4 Q. Did you talk with those people about the
incident as it was occurring?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember anything that - - that
they said to you about the incident?
A. Welcome to Portland, that - -
Q. That's what they said?
A. They made kind of a joke about it and then,
you know, just how awful and not exactly what we
wanted to see on a Sunday and was he okay. I mean, it
wasn't any - - I couldn't speak to specifics. I don't
recall.
Q. But you did talk with them and you talked to

them about -- I guess about your husband's work a
little bit?
A. Yes.
Q. And where does your husband work?
A. My husband works for New Seasons Markets.
Q. ~ n you
d never got their names?
A. No.
(Discussion off the record.)
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) That 's all I have.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
73
1 EXAMINATION
2 BY MS. BACK:
3 Q. I'm sorry to put you through this. I know
it's a long morning.

A. That's okay.
Q. It's just in the process of the deposition
this is really just the one opportunity that we have
to talk to you before trial - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - to kind of figure out what you have to
say about this and so it's really important that we
all just understand, from your perspective, what you
saw and what you heard, so we're really not trying to
put you through an ordeal.
My name is Jean Back. I represent the
ambulance company and the paramedics that arrived that
day. And I just have a few questions for you - -
A. Okay.
Q. - - with respect to what you saw.
A. Could I ask - - I never was introduced to
her.
Q. Oh, absolutely.
MS. DUNAWAY: Oh, I'm so sorry. Susan
Dunaway, Multnomah County and the green uniform.
THE WITNESS: The green, okay.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
74
1 Q. (By Ms. Back) Okay. So my - - most of my

2 questions are just going to basically concern what you
3 remember about that point - - period of time when the
4 paramedics were there. And I guess what I want to
5 know first is what do you remember about the emergency
6 vehicles arriving, not police vehicles but the other
7 vehicles, and which one arrived first, if you can tell
8 me ?
A. I think they arrived pretty simultaneously.
I would say that the emergency services arrived first
and then the fire truck.
Q. Okay. And do you remember seeing people get
out of those vehicles?
A. I saw the paramedics get out of the truck.
Q. And what do you remember about - - did you
remember seeing what they did when they got out of the
truck?
A. They got out of the truck. They went and
got, you know, the box with supplies I was assuming
and they put on gloves and - -
Q. Do you remember what color of gloves they
were wearing?
A. Maybe purple.
Q. Okay. And do you remember how many there
were?

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040
A. How many paramedics?

Q. M-hm.
A. There were two.
Q. Were they - - what sexes were they?
A. One was a man and one was a woman.
Q. Okay. And what do you remember seeing?
Which one got the box?
A. I think the woman got the box.
Q. Okay. And then what do you remember seeing?
A. And then I remember her going down by his
head, Mr. Chasse's head, and - - and then at that point
I kind of just stopped watching.
Q. Do you remember at all, between the time
that she left her vehicle and the time that she got
down by his head, any conversations with the police
officers there?
A. I do recall her talking to one of the police
officers.
Q. Now, could you hear, from where you were,
what they were saying?
A. No.
Q. At - - but you could hear Mr. Chasse?
A. I could hear him.
Q. Okay. And at this time, was - - was he - -
what was he doing? Was he laying - - how was - - what

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
76
1 was he doing? I don't want to put words in your
2 mouth .
3 A. He -- he was lying on the ground in that
4 kind of semi-fetal position, his hands were behind his
5 back, his legs were pulled up behind him, and he was
6 kind of crouched into himself and he was just moaning
7 a lot.
8 Q. Could you tell at any time - - let me
9 backtrack just a bit to after he was restrained. Did
10 you ever observe a time when he stopped moving?
11 A. There was a - - a short period of time that
12 he stopped - - that it got real quiet.
13 Q. And now, you've had - - been in the position
14 where you've had to restrain children before.
15 A. M-hm.
16 Q. Have you ever had an occasion or
17 experienced, after a child kind of fights to be
18 restrained, if they stop just kind of go quiet for a
19 while? Is that a - - something that you've ever
2o experienced?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did - - did it seem like that's what was
23 going on with Mr. Chasse at that point in time?
24 MR. STEENSON: Objection, vague.
25 Q. (By Ms. Back) That he had just been

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
77
restrained and - -
A. I think he had - - yeah, he was restrained
and I don't - - yeah, he seemed quiet at that point.
Q. Did - - could you tell whether he was
breathing?
A. I couldn't tell that. I assumed he was
still breathing 'cause he was moaning still, so --
Q. He was still making noises?

A. Not - - not continual (indicating verbally),
you know, kind of moaning but you'd hear (indicating
verbally) .
Q. Did you hear anything else coming from him
besides what you're describing as moaning?
A. No. He just kept saying no, it hurts, ow.
Q. Any other words that you could make out?
A. Hm-m.
Q. And so let's get back in time to when the
paramedic gets there. And I'm not - - I don't want to
put words in your mouth, so - - but my recollection is
you said you thought you observed some conversation
with the officers?
A. M-hm.
Q. Okay. And then what happened after that?
A. It appeared that they, you know, examined
him and --

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
78
1 Q. Now, let's go back to say - - 'cause, you
2 know, Mr. Landrum went over the rules of depositions
3 but I really don't want you to guess. I want you
4 to - - if you can't - - if you don't know the answer --
5 and I'm not trying to lecture you, but we - - none of

6 us want to - - we want to know exactly what you know,
7 and if it's a guess it's not going to be helpful to
8 you or to us. So do you know - - you say it appeared.
9 Did you see them examine her at - - examine Mr. Chasse
10 at all?
11 A. I saw her go down by him. She appeared to
12 be interacting with him in some manner.
13 Q. So that means that you actually saw her
14 saying something to him?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. And then I saw her stand back up and talk to
18 the police officer again.
19 Q. Did you see her -- did you see any sort of
2o testing going on in terms of - - have you ever been to
21 the doctor and had your blood pressure taken?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Did you see anything like someone
24 taking his blood pressure?
25 A. I did not see that.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
79
1 Q. But it -- at the same time, it could be that

2 you -- your attention was drawn away?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. 'Cause you didn't see everything that
5 was going on with respect to what the paramedic was
6 doing with him?
7 A. I did not see everything, no.
8 Q. So there could have been testing or
9 attention given to him that you didn't see?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. Did you see anyone else, besides the
12 female paramedic, attending to Mr. Chasse or talking
13 to the female paramedic and helping to attend to
14 Mr. Chasse?
15 A. The other paramedic went down as well and - -
16 Q. What - -
17 A. But - -
18 Q. I'm sorry, go ahead, finish your sentence.
19 A. But I didn't see him doing any kind of
20 testing or - - I didn't -- I didn't see him giving any
21 aid.
22 Q. When you say the other paramedic, can you
23 describe what the other paramedic looked like?
24 A. I want to say he had dark hair, but that's
25 about the -- all I can remember. Caucasian.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
80
1 Q. Did you remember whether he got out of the
2 ambulance or whether he got out of the fire truck?
3 A. I don't recall.
4 Q. What - - how many of the people that got
5 there were the emergency medical people, the people
6 from either the ambulance or the fire truck? Do you
7 remember the number of people?
8 A. Maybe five.
Q. Total, from both vehicles?
A. In addition to the police officers?
Q. Right.
A. Yes.
Q. Just the emergency medical - - so you've
testified two from the ambulance and you think
three --
A. Maybe three, three firemen.

Q. And do you remember what - - what the firemen
were wearing?
A. I think they were in dark blue.
Q. And the person that cleaned up the street at
the end of the day, what - - what was that person
wearing?
A. They were wearing a dark blue uniform.
Q. And what color hair did they have or - -
A. I don't remember.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
81
1 Q. But they weren't police officers in the dark
2 blue uniform?
3 A. I don't - - I don't recall it being a police
4 officer, but it might have been a police officer.
5 Q. Okay. And did you hear Mr. Chasse interact
6 at all with the paramedic?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did you hear, again, after the first
9 interaction that you saw between the police officers
10 and the paramedic, did you hear any subsequent
11 conversations between the police officers and the
12 paramedics?
13 A. NO.
14 Q. And is it fair to say that - - that the
15 paramedics didn't observe any of the struggle that you
16 observed?
17 A. No.
18 Q. That they didn't observe Mr. Chasse being
19 arrested or restrained?
2o A. I -- there was one officer still down by
21 Chasse with his knee in his back still.
22 Q. When the paramedic - -
23 A. When the paramedics arrived, there was still
24 an officer down by him when the paramedics got there.
25 Q. Could you tell whether there was an officer

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
82
continuing to help keep Mr. Chasse calm while he was

being attended to? And if that's an unfair statement,
tell me.
A. I - - I don't remember. I mean, I didn't
hear him offering comforting words or -- or anything
like that if that's what you're asking me.
Q. No. I'm just asking whether - - at any time
while the paramedics - - let me rephrase this and maybe
that will help. At any time while the paramedics were
there, did you observe Mr. Chasse to start to become
combative at all or struggle more?
A. I don ' t remember that.
Q. Okay. Were there people watching this whole
event that were closer to where Mr. Chasse was than
you were?
A. Yes.
Q. And - - and where were those people?
A. They were -- I mean, obviously these tables
closer in were closer to him.
Q. You were the farthest table away?
A. No.
Q. No.
The second to - -
A. Second to the farthest table away.
Q. Okay.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
83
1 A. And so these people down here could see it
2 probably a little bit better.
3 Q. How about pedestrians, were there
4 pedestrians?
5 A. I think there was a guy on this corner,
6 there was somebody walking a dog.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. There were some people walking by.
9 Q. Were you close enough to see whether
10 Mr. Chasse's eyes were open during this - - any of this
11 time or closed or --
12 A. NO.
13 Q. What, did you see Mr. Chasse moving his arms
14 or his legs or his body at all when the paramedics
15 were there?
16 A. NO.
17 Q. And again, to be fair, you weren't watching
18 the whole thing; right?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. Okay. You - - you obviously have some
21 experience in dealing with a population, at least a
22 younger population, that might have some emotional
23 disabilities or mental disabilities?
24 A. M-hm.
25 Q. At -- did it appear to you, even with your

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
84
1 experience, that Mr. Chasse had any sort of mental
2 disabilities?
3 A. I mean, did I make an assumption or did I - -
4 Q. Is that something that was obvious to you?
5 A. It was apparent that he was a person of the
6 streets. He was not somebody who had just come out of
7 the hills of Portland.
8 Q. What made that apparent to you?
9 A. His manner of dress, his - - he had a more
10 scruffy appearance.
11 Q. But of course there can be people that were
12 living on the street that don't have --
13 A. Of course.
14 Q. -- mental disabilities?
15 A. Of course.
16 Q. So aside from his appearance of being
17 someone that - - I mean what you've just testified to,
18 with your experience and training, could you - - was it
19 obvious to you that he had a mental disability?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did you see, at the end or at any point in
22 time when the paramedics were there, did you see any
23 sort of conversation between the police and the
24 paramedics before Mr. Chasse was taken away from the
25 scene?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
85
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And did you see any sort of papers being
3 exchanged --
4 A. NO.
5 Q. - - during that time?
6 Did you hear any of that?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did you hear any of the medical personnel,
9 and specifically from the ambulance company, the two
10 that you believe to be from the ambulance company, do
11 anything that you considered unprofessional?
12 A. I questioned why they didn't put him in the
ambulance.
Q. Aside from that?
A. No.
Q. Did hear them say or behave in any way - -
A. No.
Q. - - that you felt was unprofessional?
Did you hear either of the AMR paramedics
make fun of Mr. Chasse or - -
A. There was some laughter, but I didn't - - I
couldn't say it was specifically directed at
Mr. Chasse.
Q. Was it the AMR paramedics that were
laughing?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
86
A. There was some jovial exchanges between all

of the officers and paramedics, so I couldn't - - I
mean, I - - I couldn't say what it was in regards to.
Q. Can you say specifically that it was one of
the two AMR paramedics that was -- as there were a
number of people around there, that it was one of them
that was participating in that?
A. Yes.
Q. And which one?
A. I would say it was the woman.
Q. And did you hear what was said?
A. No.
Q. I don't think I have anything further.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. STEENSON:
Q. A few questions.
A. Okay.
Q. According to a police report that I've
looked at, you were interviewed and it was tape-
recorded by telephone on September 21 of 2006 by
Detective Rhodes - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - does that sound about right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then if I understand, you've looked at a

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
87
1 transcript of that interview more recently?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Do you recall, when you looked at the
4 transcript, whether it seemed to be accurate in terms
5 of the things that the two of you said to each other?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Is it fair to say your memory of events was
8 probably a little better then than it is today?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. At one point you said to the detective "I
11 heard the -- an officer say don't bite me and - - and
12 then I did witness that officer hit him three times."
13 So is it the officer who said don't bite me that you
14 saw hit Mr. Chasse three times?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. You mentioned, in response to Mr. Landrum's
17 testimony -- or questions, about one of the officers
18 using his knees. Is that the same officer who said
19 don't bite me?
20 A. No.
21 Q. You indicated that after Mr. Chasse was
22 restrained that he was searched. Do you recall that?
23 A. I remember them going through his pockets.
24 Q. By that you mean one of the officers?
25 A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Diane Loyhry, 7/28/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
88
1 Q. Did they remove anything from his pockets or
2 could you tell?
3 A. I couldn't tell.
4 Q. Did you hear anyone that night, including
5 the police officers, the paramedics, or the fire
6 fighters, mention anything about drugs or drug
7 paraphernalia or anything like that?
8 A. I think that I heard one of the other
9 patrons of the Blue Hour say something and so you know
10 how people will start - - you know, there was an im - -
11 there was some implication that maybe that's what - -
12 it was a drug deal or something gone bad.
13 Q. That was by a patron, though, not one of the
14 officers or - -
15 A. I don't recall it being an officer.
16 Q. Did you ever see an officer tap or kick

17 Mr. Chasse after he was restrained? And I mean that
18 not -- not in a way to necessarily injure him but to
19 check on him to see whether he was breathing or how he
20 was doing.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you remember which officer did that?
23 A. It was the one that was down towards his
24 feet. He did kind of tap his feet a couple of times.
25 Q. Okay. Do you remember what color uniform

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
89
that was?
A. I think blue.
Q. All right. And when they picked up
Mr. Chasse and carried him away, did he - - did he moan
or scream or make any - - any noise?
A. He was still moaning, yes.
Q. Did the -- did the volume of his voice pick
up when he was picked up and carried away, do you
recall?
A. He had kind of settled down on the ground
and then when he got picked back up he did appear to
be moaning again --
Q. Okay.
A. - - a little louder.
Q. That's all I have.
MS. BACK: Anybody else?
MR. LANDRUM: No, that's all.
MS. BACK: Susan, you done?
FURTHER EXAMINATION
BY MS. DUNAWAY:
Q. I just want to make sure that I heard you
right because I was kind of reading. I just want to
make sure that I heard you tell Mr. Steenson that you
would agree that your recollection during your
detective interview was better than it is now?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
90
1 A. It was probably more clear then, yes.
2 Q. Okay. So what I'm reading in the detective
3 interview would be more accurate than what your
4 recollection is today in regard to Mr. Chasse?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And actions he took?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And things he said?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And the volume of his voice?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. That's all I have.
13 MS. BACK: Nothing further.
14 (The deposition concluded at 11:22 AM.)
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
91
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 STATE OF WASHINGTON )
) ss.
3 COUNTY OF CLARK )
4 I, Shannon K. Krska, a Certified Shorthand

5 Reporter for Oregon, do hereby certify that, pursuant
6 to stipulation of counsel for the respective parties
7 hereinbefore set forth, DIANE LOGHRY personally
8 appeared before me at the time and place set forth in
9 the caption hereof; that at said time and place I
10 reported in Stenotype all testimony adduced and other
11 oral proceedings had in the foregoing matter; that
12 thereafter my notes were reduced to typewriting under
13 my direction; and that the foregoing transcript, pages
14 3 to 90, both inclusive, constitutes a full, true and
15 accurate record of all such testimony adduced and oral
16 proceedings had, and of the whole thereof.
17 Witness my hand and CSR stamp at Vancouver,
18 Washington, this 8th day of August, 2008.
19
20
21 Shannon K. Krska
22 Certified Shorthand Reporter
23 Oregon CSR No. 90-0216

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040

Chasse Deposition: Loghry Transcript

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Chasse Deposition: Loghry Transcript

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE )

For the Defendants MR. DAVID A. LANDRUM

For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Could you spell that?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

1 A. Yes. I have a degree in elementary

2 education with graduate work in special education.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

A. That was in Camas.

Schmitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

when you're employing elements of that training that

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schrnitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

A. Just that one time.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

event in a minute, but - - well, I was going to say,

Schrnitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

We stayed until we had finished.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schrnitt & Lehmann, Inc.

1 So when you say - - I said did you see them

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

1 Q. Did they appear to be not standing?

Schmitt & Lehmam, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

11 and I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is that

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

And then the paramedics came.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

18 you could hear him. You know, he sounded like he was

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

1 Q. Can you describe for me - -

6 A. They picked him up under his arms and he

lo A. There was still some --

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

. what was your opinion about that?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.