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This culmination of knowledge is put together in the hopes that both theist, and atheist alike would be able to
take something from it & improve upon the human they are. All information considered for this article aims to
be as honest as possible, given our current state of technology & scientific discovery. Unfortunately that means
this article is not balanced towards each side of the debate, and clearly favors that which is more logical, and
trustworthy. While science does not, and does not claim to have all of the answers, it has proven its self
ethically honest when put to debate. When science makes a claim of knowledge, it does so with the
understanding that any new evidence will be compared to its previous claims. Unlike religion, if this new
evidence contradicts a previous claim, rather then religiously discard the evidence, science openly & willfully
reworks the claim to accept this new evidence. As always empirical evidence is put to the test of peer review to
certify its validity. Rather then shunning questions about their findings, processes, and evidence. Science
thrives on the fundamental belief that only through trial and error can a scientific claim be certified to the
highest stages of acceptance. As such, any & all challenges & questions to this article are openly accepted.
There is no greater debate then that between faith and fact. For fact is when man relies on empirical evidence
which leads to a scientific conclusion. Where faith is when man relies on erratic emotions resulting in spiritual
confusion. (quote by Jeremy Moran) Contrary to its teachings, religion provides so few answers, and only
opens the door to an infinite amount of more questions. Unless you are able to withstand the will of natural
human curiosity, withdraw your questions, and resort to blindly follow. There are those who are unwilling to
quell those inner questions, and simply accept those stories of old. We are the free thinkers who question
everything, seeking the greater truth about all of this existence that encompasses us. We are constantly
striving for new evidence that teaches us about the true questions of existence. While its very easy to assert
that God(s) did it, its not so easy to accept this claim without any evidence. In the light of mountains of
evidence contradicting such a claim, it only shows how truly improbable the existence of a supernatural creator
is.
For the sake of clarification, if & when I state IF godthis, or IF godthat. I am simply purposing a theoretical
argument, from the perspective of a theist / deist. Under no circumstances should this be misconstrued as an
actual belief in god(s). Even attempting such a statement goes to show the true lack of educational ethics of
the person presupposing it. For in any argument there are 2 ways to go about debating a claim; we can attack
the claim its self, eroding the validity of it through contrary evidence, highlighting logical errors, and
discrediting evidence provided for the claim. We can also use theoretical debating by presupposing that the
claim is true, then showing how any results of such a claim would show the logical errors of the claim due to
their own contradictions, errors in logic, or chances of probability. When an Atheist states If God, for the sake
a growing list!
For a deeper knowledge base, Jeremy Moran gives you a plethora of source (academic and otherwise):
There is much debate about what it means to be an atheist. Im an Atheist, & like most atheists I understand
what it means to me personally, yet it still remains one of the biggest debated points day after day. Even many
of the standard dictionaries do not help to quell the argument, and only lead to further confusion by providing
erroneous and often offensive definitions of atheism. Including, but not limited to: Doctrination, Godlessness,
wickedness, immoral, etc. Atheism is not a belief, nor a religion. There are no rules, regulations, or
commandments to atheism. Atheism does not hold daily, weekly, or any kind of official gatherings. Atheism is
simply the realization that all claims of supernatural gods are highly unlikely or improbable. There are varying
degrees of atheism, from the agnostic and weak or undecided atheist, to the stronger atheist. Each of these
levels of signifies the degree by which an individual refutes the gods of men. I think addressing these
difference degrees, and providing further definition will help to stem the semantic part of the debate, and get
Those who think that there is only 2 options to a question, yes or no, will find it hard to understand atheism. At
the very basic level atheism is a neutral ground for the acceptance for any & all supernatural gods. The weak
atheist is one who does not accept gods, nor denies them outright. They simply realize that without proof, such
claims can not be accepted as fact. Likewise the weak atheist generally does not say they are 100% certain
that there are no gods. Again, they are undecided or neutral as to the question of the existence of supernatural
gods. Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claimsespecially claims about the existence or
non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claimsis unknown or unknowable. An
atheist of the middle ground are ones who not only do not believe in any supernatural gods, but also feel there
is enough scientific evidence to contradict the claims by all of the worlds religions as to the actions of these
gods to create the universe and life. These types of atheists not only dont believe in any deities, but also
consider the evidence that contradicts these gods is enough to say all of these deities most likely do not exist.
Based on my discussions with thousands of individuals, these atheists make up the greatest percentage of
atheism world wide. The last group to be described here are strong atheists. Id like to first point out that man
people tend to mix up or confuse the definition of agnostic & atheist. A strong atheist are people who state not
only are there no deities, but they absolutely (within a 99% probability) do not exist. For the strong Atheist not
only the evidence contradicting claims of god(s), I.E., origins of the universe, abiogenesis, evolution, etc. leads
to their acceptance of their not being a god or gods, but they also realize that by their very deffinition
supernatural (or above nature / outside of nature) gods are as real as a square circle.
All things considered defining who we are, as atheists, has been one of the largest hurdles weve had to over
come. And still to this day Theists attempt to expand Athesim into something its not. Whether by association,
injecting some extenuating circumsatances, or just plain stretching the truth, the purpose becomes very clear.
First, generally as an argument from ignorence by lacking the proper knowledge of atheism or as an
argument from authority theyre clearly lacking, they will assert some kind of claim about atheism based on
their vast knowledge (claimed authority) such as; Atheism is just another religion that worships nature,
humanism, materialism, the universe, etc. Or Atheists DO believe in God because all of their claims for their
not being a god start with there is no god, because he (relating back to my point made in the opening
statements about theorhetical or hypothetical arguments.). They set up these special circumstances in order to
create an easier target for them. They know very well that Atheism makes no claims, we simply do not accept
the religious claims that there is a super natural god or gods. Logically the ONLY way to attack a non position
would be to provide evidence for their own claims which there is NO empirical demonstrable objectively
peer reviews evidence to support their claims. So again, unable to defeat the atheist position, they assert
special extentions to atheism that are far easier to attack. They feel by setting up this new target, then
attacking it, they are somehow attacking atheism as well which simply is NOT the case. Theyd truly like if
atheism was a religion, because beleifs are far easier to attack then true knowledge. As atheists we know this
from fighting their beliefs, they know this as well. By asserting a hypothetical argument somehow equals a
litteral beliefs in a god, they again get to assert Atheism is a belief structure. And by asserting a stereotypical
belief that ALL atheists are materialists, naturalists, humanists, etc. this again allows them to attack these other
isms rather then atheism. Not a single one of these attack tactics holds a drop of logical reasoning or proper
debate capabilities.
them all out in great detail and then link them all into one post for anybody who wants to use them.
Todays will be the Argument from Holy Scripture:essentially, the bible seems miraculous and is therefore
probably true/god exists (this argument is not very popular anymore and apologists seem inclined to avoid
even bringing up the bible in this way, but local preacher types and other intro level theolosophers still resort to
it)
A frequent way this is employed is to claim that the bible makes prophecies that were later fulfilled.
Seven problems with biblical prophecy
I. Vague prophecies.
Imagine you could go back in time, just as a human being with no omniscient knowledge of the future like god
would surely have. You could make very precise predictions of the future without the need to hide in ambiguity.
Some of my predictions would look like this:
In the 21st Century, there will be a system by which information is spread throughout the entire world, and this
social gatherings.
This is what I could offer with a knowledge of what has transpired between then and now that is far inferior to
what gods would have been. Why is it that I could have been infinitely more clear and accurate than god, even
Precise prophecies are risky they have a very high probability of being wrong. The bible almost always shies
away from any such attempt at prophecy (Ill touch on the almost later) choosing to make ambiguous
before thee.
Jesus proudly proclaims this prophecy was fulfilled by John. Compare this hazy line to my rather precise
prophecies from above. Is this really as specific as an all-knowing god can be? Obviously not, as I could do
better off the top of my head give me access to the internet and Ill really give you some VERY precise
prophesies.
against them!
Id wager good money that this would be fulfilled within 20 years. Do I really need divine inspiration for this?
If the scripture from Luke (and the litany of prophecies just like it) constitutes prognostication, whats your
You experience a burst of great energy that should help you achieve almost anything close to your heart. A
new love, a big win in business or even a quiet reconciliation are all possible.
Not very impressive, is it? Prophecies that are not falsifiable (ones that involve no risk) are not exactly
spectacular. Ponder for a moment how bold it would be to predict that the Sun wouldnot rise
tomorrow! Prophecies like that are very easy to get wrong, which explains why the bible almost (again, Ill
Jesus, if he existed (I dont believe he did, see David Fitzgeralds Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show
Jesus Never Existed at All), was a Rabbi, which means he was educated in Jewish literature. A prophecy that
just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Jesus would have known precisely what to do. But this is a great deal more than mere speculation: the bible
with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath
need of them; and straightway he will send them. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the prophet, saying Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and
How difficult is it to fulfill a prophecy you knew about beforehand? Its not.
(Incidentally, in Zachariah 9:10-13, the scriptures go on to show that the person in question riding the donkey
was a military king with an army that would rule from sea to sea. Jesus had no army and no kingdom, and
therefore could not have fulfilled this prophecy. Also, inZachariah 9:8 we have god decreeing that Israel shall
never again be oppressed, which is a flagrantly inaccurate prophecy. It is also a perfect example of how
specific prophecies tend to bite people in the hind-quarters, which is why biblical authors, mystics, and other
shills tend to avoid them see section 6 of this portion of the post.)
IV. Biblical authors lied or wrote allegorically.
Jesus wasnt the only one who knew what the OT or other parts of the bible had to say. Consider for a
moment that its the consensus of the historical community that the gospels were not authored by Jesus
disciples (even the vast majority of Christian scholars concede this point). The gospels were written long after
Jesus death with the first one, Mark, being written about 70 CE and the last, John, coming circa 95
CE. Additionally, historians believe that the gospels following Mark were based upon a reading of that
book. So how hard would it be to corroborate anything from that book? Not very.
Still, mistakes are plentiful. It is clear that the authors of Luke and Matthew both read theGreek translation of
Isaiah 7:14 and consequently thought that Jesus should be born of a virgin. However, the Hebrew text uses
the word alma which simply means young woman. It does not imply virginity in any way. This is why Mark
and John dont seem to be aware of Marys virginity, and do not sync up with Luke and Matthew on that
It would not take omniscience (or even mild competence) to write a story about some dude who fulfills every
prophecy in a book you already have. You or I could do it easily (J.K. Rowling has pulled it off herself, and
come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The bolded disparity is very important, because the Micah scripture was referring to a military leader from the
clan Bethlehem Ephratah (many versions of the bible still use the word clan in the Micah scripture, though it
is always omitted from the Matthew) rather than a man from the village of Bethlehem.
But heres a quirk: there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Jesus, if he existed, was born in
Bethlehem. None. Zilch. Believers, thinking the two passages refer to the same thing, simply insert Jesus
Not all claims leave such open-ended space for the believer to insert facts though. This is one of the good
things about the gospels (at least as far as we skeptics are concerned): they provide historical claims that can
be tested empirically. Such as the claim in Luke that Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census be taken
of the entire Roman world (the census covered only Judea, and has some other interesting implications about
There is also no documentation of any out of the ordinary celestial events at that time, even though such things
were very accurately recorded then. Another example would be the historical absence of any corroboration to
the idea of Herods slaughter of innocent children (the closest thing we have are Josephus and Philo writing
about how he murdered some of his family members). This tends to be the kind of thing that historians write
When prophecies are having to compete with history, they stop being prophecies. There is no corroboration
of biblical prophecy outside of the bible and plenty of historical conflict with whats in it.
VI. Numerous prophecies were unfulfilled.
Remember how the bible tends to almost universally avoid specific prophecies because of how you can
actually get those wrong? Well, heres where the almost comes in. Look at Ezekiel 26:
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings,
from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much peopleAnd I
will make thee [Tyre] like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no
more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
I use an ellipse () to skip the gory description of just how Nebuchadrezzar will conquer Tyre. Feel free to
go read it for yourself. However, Nebuchadrezzar did not defeat Tyre try as he did. Alexander the
Other versions of the bible spell out that god expressly says that Tyre shall never be rebuilt (see the bolded
section). Of course, Tyre was rebuilt and remains one of the oldest inhabited cities to this day (2750 BCE
present).
This is why the authors of the bible tend to avoid specific prophesies, like you or I could make if we went back
in time. Imagine if the author had just written, Tyre will be destroyed. You can bet that Christians would have
been chalking up Alexanders work to biblical prophesy. See how other ambiguous passages easily conform
to just about anything? Fortunately for those of us who demand falsifiable data, the type demanded in science,
Ezekiel (and a host of other biblical writers who wrote unfulfilled prophesies) goofed.
The bible speaks of an omniscient god, and that clearly cannot be the case if even one prophecy is
wrong. Thats clearly the case we find ourselves in. Ask yourself if the above really looks like the product of
omniscience.
Hey, he cant get things right all the time. Who do you think he is, god?
VII. Self-fulfilling prophecies.
These are prophecies along the lines of saying, Tomorrow Im going to go fishing and then going fishing the
following day. A similar case would be saying youre going to rebuild a temple and then doing it. You can find
many cases of this in the bible, and Christians all-to-eager to brand them as fulfilled prophecies.
So, my advice? Go find a site that lists biblical prophecies and read them. Ask yourself how difficult or
miraculous such prophecies would be to make. Though I wouldnt recommend it (in my opinion, the bible is
one of the worst-written, least-informing, and most awful books ever written), you could evenread the
Remember, there is a stark difference in approach from people who view doubt as an important tool in keeping
ones self from being scammed and those who view doubt as a threat to believing as you should. Doubt: its
your friend.
Getting past prophecies, the bible does not at all look like what an all-knowing being would write (or even
influence). Consider the fact that the bible contains scripture instructing us on the proper way to keep slaves
(Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:2-6) , which includes how to sell your daughter into sexual slavery
(Exodus 21:7-11) and how we should beat them (Exodus 21:20-21). It also contains instructions on the proper
Consider for a moment what could have gone in place of stuff like this. Explanations of DNA, electricity? How
to build a telescope? Perhaps it could have mentioned how to avoid diseases (rather than Jesus telling us to
not bother washing our hands in Mark 7:1-15), or even explained that they werent caused by demons but
The bible, given its position on slavery and ritual animal sacrifice, is obviously not the kind of book any decent
(or competent) moral philosopher would write. The paltry non-offenses worthy of death in the bible include
many of the ten commandments (commandment 1: no worshiping other gods, Deuteronomy 17:3-7;
commandment 2: no graven images, Deuteronomy 12:2-3; commandment 4: keep the sabbath, Exodus 35:2;
commandment 5: honor your mother and father, Leviticus 20:9; and commandment 7: no adultery,
Leviticus 20:10), along with being gay, being a witch, being a fortuneteller, pre-marital sex (its only pre-marital
There are two responses to this. The first is that supposedly god had to have some way of instilling morality in
his subjects. But hes all-knowing (or at least smarter than us), surely a better, less painful way could be found
(or created). The second is that this blood-thirsty, hedonistic type of enforcement was the best we could do at
the time. This is simply not true. Several philosophers managed better. Mahavira, the Jain Patriarch,
summed it all up very nicely in a single sentence well over 500 years before Jesus was supposed to have
Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture or kill any creature or living being.
The Buddha managed to realize that punishment was to teach, not to torture or kill. Lao-Tsze came up with
the golden rule long before it was borrowed by biblical authors. Zoroaster produced the rule of action (if you
dont know if its good or bad, dont do it) during that time. In the 4th century B.C., Socrates had determined
not right to return an injury, or to do evil to any man, however much we have suffered from him.
Cicero had managed to figure out that forgiveness was better than violence as well.
Let us not listen to those who think we ought to be angry with our enemies, and who believe this to be great
and manly. Nothing is so praiseworthy, nothing so clearly shows a great and noble soul, as clemency and
readiness to forgive.
The Hindus (whose holy texts predate the old testament) produced the idea of turning the other cheek when
Krishna said,
If a man strike thee, and in striking drop his staff, pick it up and hand it to him again?
Clearly we could have done better at the time. And if human beings could do better then what reason do we
have to believe the bible was so much as influenced by omnipotence? Omnipotence would not be so wrong.
None of this barbarity was ever necessary, and could not be the product of an ethically wise mortal, let alone
an omnipotent, caring, father-figure type of god. The bible looks like something that was written by people
ignorant of almost the entirety of human knowledge. We should treat it that way.
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Often this amounts to Jesus rose from the dead and Gods existence is the best explanation of that fact, but
sometimes they use other miracles (faith healing, for example). People citing miracles as evidence can also
fall back on fulfilled prophecy in the bible, at which point it becomes an argument from holy scripture.
Miracles that arent very miraculous
These are miracles that, while improbable on a small
accumulate 8 to 10 inches of snow on top of it. This was to occur on a Thursday night, so you can bet there
were plenty of people praying for milder weather so driving conditions on the weekend would be safer. And as
fate would have it, there was a tiny hole in the middle of the front that drifted right over us. There was no ice,
and snow didnt start until that morning. We only got about two inches. Since Im a bitter atheist and wanted a
Im sure many of those praying considered it proof that a god heard their prayers and answered them (while
simultaneously ignoring similar prayers of people North and South of us which got hammered with dangerous
weather, or from all the religious students who wanted a snow day and were no doubt praying for a regular
blizzard). It should be plainly obvious, however, that a more likely explanation for this occurrence would be
that the weathermen simply goofed or that the hole in the snowstorm had to hit somewhere.
Many miracles are presented by believers as anything that beats the odds. Because most of us live long
lives with lots of things happening during that time, some things with lows odds of occurring are bound to
happen. This should seem mundane, but many people interpret it as god answering prayers. But does the
corollary hold true? Had the snowstorm done what it was supposed to have done (as it did in other states, as
well as most of the rest of Missouri), would that suggest to the prayerful that god didnt exist at all?
Often when people use prayer for ordinary things as evidence that a miracle has occurred, they are falling
victim to the lottery fallacy. If only one person bought a lottery ticket at three million to one odds and won, it
would seem fishy. However, if three million people buy tickets, we should expect someone to win every
time. This is why pointing out that something rare happened doesnt do us much good for establishing a
miracle. If you pray for something to beat the odds often enough, you will occasionally be pleasantly surprised.
These types of miracle claims often include a non-sequitor of some sort as well. I was once in a debatewith a
person who claimed a friend of his had a 99.9% chance of surviving a car wreck, and cited prayer for his
friends well being and as the reason the friend survived (one would think the doctors should get some of the
credit). I pointed out that in this country, just under 61,000 people die from car crashes every year. Even if I
were to grant the 1 in 1000 chance of living (which I didnt, that number was just pulled out of thin airyoull
encounter this a lot with miracle claims), that means 61 people every year would survive at those odds. This
The non-sequitor in this case is that prayer had anything to do with it. Sure, he prayed, and if his story is true
then his friend did, in fact, recover. If correlation always equaled causation, that would be the end of it. But as
anybody who has paid attention during any intro science class knows, that is not the case. What if I told you
that aside from praying at the hospital, this person also wore an orange t-shirt, had pancakes for breakfast, and
had $21 in his wallet? Perhaps there was another atheistic friend sitting there just wishing and hoping the
victim would recover. Why was prayer more responsible than any of those other variables? Just because a
variable is present doesnt mean it had an effect on anything. One might say that theyve seen people in
orange shirts in hospital rooms before, but that the patient still died. Surely you dont believe that every victim
of an accident (or even most of them) who is prayed for lives, do you?
Even if I conceded that I had no clue whatsoever how somebody could survive such an accident, that does not
mean that someone else does. I dont know is a wonderfully honest phrase much better than making up
answers.
So, the steps Id recommend when dealing with non-miraculous miracles are:
1. Check for competing and conflicting attempts for miracle confirmation. They cant both be true.
2. Check for the lottery fallacy.
3. Look for non-sequitors.
4. Argument from Ignorance?
Miraculous miracles
These would be things
explanation sufficed,
somebody being
somewhat
underwhelmingthis is
miracles). These
who already
believed. This creates a problem all by itself. If god is giving some people irrefutable proof of his existence
and not others, thats not fair. The common tactic here is to say that such miracles are probably happening
around the non-believer all the time but the non-believer is just being close-minded. Thats just an ad
hominem. As far as we know, our minds are open, we just want to employ check against gullibility. So what
gives with god giving some people undeniable proof but not others (like me)?
Take the miracle of Jesus rising from the dead. If this really occurred (I dont believe it did), then there is an
evidence-based reason to believe in his doctrines for all those who witnessed it (barring any reasonable
examinations to make sure they werent being duped). Likewise, for those who supposedly witnessed
Muhammad ascending to heaven aback a winged horse (in the Hadith), they have solid reasoning to believe in
the doctrine of Islam. Unfortunately, none of us nowadays have seen such things. Does god just love us
less? There is no extra biblical evidence that Jesus rose from the dead, and wed be fools to believe such an
impossible event took place without some kind of substantial evidence. We have none.
Furthermore, how much sense would it make for god to say to a handful of people, Heres irrefutable evidence
of my existence, which Im not going to give to anybody else. Now Im going to need you to go out and tell
people youve seen a miracle and that they should listen to what you say (if god really wanted a relationship
with me, it seems he could do better)? How do we know those people are not just embellishing? Even the
bible talks of how gullible and eager to accept miracles some people were. In Acts 28:6, Paul survives a
snake bite and the people are practically tripping over themselves to label him a god.
When people claim such miracles happened but only a handful of people saw them, they are denying you the
chance to investigate as anybody would do if they didnt want to get scammed. After all, countless miracle
claims have been disproven upon investigation is asking you to accept one at face value really fair? How are
you to know these people arent lying, as has been the case many, many times with such claims?
It was Carl Sagan who first said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Its easy to
Not only are these statements (or beliefs, if you really subscribed to them) progressively unlikely to be true, but
in order for any sane person to accept them as true requires increasingly more evidence. If admonished with
the first one, it is easy to accept it as true because lots of people own footballs. However, once you get to the
last one, you would need an inordinate amount of evidence to confirm that I own a teleportation pad, as no
Consider this same idea when applied to men being born of virgins and rising from the dead to fly into the
clouds. That is where a healthy bit of skepticism comes into play, and this is a check against being taken
There are many types of evidence you could have for a claim. Video evidence, corroborating scholars, post-
event evidence (like a meteorological impact), etc. Eye-witness testimony is literally the worst evidence you
can have as it is highly unreliable. In the United States alone, there have been over 250 exonerations of
people convicted on eye-witness testimony by DNA evidence, with many more being overturned on other
evidences.
For extraordinary claims, we should demand more. So when people claim to have witnessed a miracle, we
should rightly wonder why their evidence for that miracle is so shoddy.
or natural processes to explain it (either evolution would work too slowly or not as well, or life would have to
have begun too complex for chance to explain it, and so on).
A popular type argument for gods existence is the god of the gaps argument. Its an extension of the
argument from ignorance. Such arguments begin by pointing out something science has not explained and
saying that is where god is. A popular iteration is Science cant explain why I love my daughter/wife/etc! Of
course, this specific argument is patently wrong. We do understand the science of love and attraction it
comes down to simple, mindless chemicals. Although even if we couldnt explain love or anything else, that
does not mean that religious people can. The proper answer is simply I dont know, not I dont know,
therefore I DO know!
But god of the gaps arguments are losing space as science explains more and more things. The other way
theyll try and get around science infringing on claims their religion had previously tried to secure with god of
the gaps arguments is to claim that science and religion are not in conflict.
Science and religion are in conflict, and religion has been getting its ass kicked
We so often hear the faithful claiming that science and religion address different questions. The claim is
subsequently made that religion is the best means of explaining the who and why to the universe while science
best explains the what and how. However, while religion makes assertions of explanatory power, I think its
quite a leap to say that religion/faith explains anything. Sam Harris makes this point beautifully by proposing
two questions:
1. Think of one thing for which we once had a religious answer, but for which we now have a scientific answer
(this one should not be difficult).
2. Think of one thing for which we had a scientific answer, but for which we now have a religious answer (dont
waste too much of your time).
If religion did explain things or if it truly claimed mastery over a sphere of knowledge that science is not fit to
handle, then the claims of religion would not be continually being replaced by scientific explanations. Order of
the stars? Miracle. (Crap, turns out it was gravity) Disease? The devil. (Nope, just germs) Lightning? Gods
A look at the universe reveals it to be the work of a fairly incompetent engineer at best, as it took billions of
years of trial and painful error to reach its current state. A perfect designer would not require such a system. It
is also still riddled with a host of simple errors that are just what we would expect to see in a universe that
operates on a series of mindless rules, but that are just bizarre if a god created anything. These are things like
the existence of the appendix, babies heads being bigger than the birth canal, and the clunky nature of
DNA. Did you know that cancer and a whole host of other maladies are the result of a flaw in DNA
replication? What intelligent designer, let alone a competent one, would use a system that contains basic
flaws perceptible to even a moderately informed mortal? Additionally, why would god saturate the DNA chain
with junk DNA or place markers on the DNA chainthat help us monitor the evolution of DNA which inevitably
and a why? We shall see that complexity/order does not require an intelligent hand, and the cosmos appears
An argument that often comes up in an effort to disprove evolution is the Law of Entropy Argument(theyll often
refer to it as the Second Law of Thermodynamics argument). It will be advanced that the second law states
that all interactions produce more disorder than order, so for things to be ordered we would need interference
from a designer of some sort. However, this is not at all what the second law says. What the law really says is
that when a reaction occurs within a closed system (a system in which energy/mass remain fixed) then the
disordered energy will always be greater than the ordered energy. During such reactions, the disordered
energy is emitted into whats called dissipative systems. As long as the ordered energy is less than the
A good example of this would be our atmosphere. Its pretty ordered its been there for millions of
years. However, the friction of the molecules contained therein creates heat that is then radiated into space as
disordered energy, giving us order in a closed system. Our solar system is another example. If you get a giant
cloud of hydrogen such that it hits a critical mass for gravity to take effect on it, it will compress into a young
star and possibly a new solar system (see the Jeans instability).
greater order.
If you were to take almost all the energy out of the equation in dealing with water you would get ice
(specifically, ice crystals), the most complex form of water. Ice crystals are highly ordered, and we know
precisely what natural mechanisms create them. Nobody feels the need to invoke a crystal-making god to
explain them because we already have a complete understanding of the process; mindless forces operating
Order out of chaos is easy to observe, and it is responsible for virtually every instance of complexity in the
universe. This is why if we were to find ourselves in a disordered universe, in which things were observed to
exist in a state of greater disorder rather than forming complex systems, we could conclude that something,
Because we know that the universe produces order on its own, there is no need to appeal to god to explain it
since we know that complexity gets produced without intention all the time. Therefore design cannot be an
answer without evidence to support it. Without such evidence, its just a lack of imagination.
Abiogenesis
Abiogenesis is the science surrounding the origin of life. It is important that we are very specific on what we
mean when we say life in this context. Many religious people will assert that the odds of an operable strand
of DNA assembling on its own are so astronomical that we my as well consider it impossible (or more probable
that a god had a hand in it). However, this is not the question that should be asked. As we shall see, we only
need to be interested in the origin of a self-replicating molecule, which is highly probable in an early Earth.
The first DNA strand would not have held much information, but instead it would have held just enough to get it
started so it could evolve. It would need only an array of polypeptides, which biologists believe were plentiful in
the pre-biotic Earth. Of course, youd also need a little luck (however, spread out over a vast planet of similar
events, such a lucky event would become probable: go here and run a text search for lottery fallacy): you
would need fluctuations of temperature sufficient to remove portions of the pools from thermal equilibrium, and
these occur in just the same way that organized convection cycles arise naturally when water is heated. With
these things in place, as they likely were in the beginning stages of our planet 3.8 to 4.4 billion years ago, the
Once the first self-replicating molecule gets started, it only needs evolution to take care of the rest. My post
Contrary to what many creationists advance, the universe does not need a who or a why it appears to be
chugging along just fine with its mindless processes and inanimate objects. Also, note how differently science
and religion work. In science it is never noble to pretend to know things you do not. Yet, this is precisely what
the argument to design is: pointing to a piece of complexity weve yet to explain (or have already explained and
the creationist just doesnt know it) and claiming that because we currently lack an explanation that the believer
does know how that little piece of order came to be and dont you know, it was god. In doing so, they are
claiming to have knowledge about the cosmos that the collective battery of science lacks. Only in faith could
Other times the creationist will cite people like Francis Collins or Michael Behe, who have degrees in science
or math, to defend their position. It is easy to point out that no papers on proof for gods existence from such
people has made it into peer-review (if such papers have even been submitted, which I doubt). Whether by
web site or by referencing the individual, the theist is purporting to place their trust in the hands of an expert:
which is an excellent and necessary step in forming a coherent world view (go here and read the section
Should we defer to experts?). However, when we are deferring to experts its important to make sure thats
what were actually doing. So often we confuse deferring to experts with ignoring the consensus of experts in
order to accept an unscrutinized opinion from a lone-expert that conforms to a position we are emotionally
attached to. It is here that we need to refine our understanding of acceptable sourcing.
What if I was arguing that a Flying Spaghetti Monster existed? Here are some experts assessing the likelihood
development of so-called String Theory. In String Theory, all fundamental sub-atomic particles are visualized
and described mathematically as microscopic vibrating strings. Although as yet unproven, many physicists
believe that String Theory has the potential to become the long-sought Theory of Everything, through which
the fundamental physical nature of all matter and forces will become understood. Obviously String Theory IS
correct, although misnamed (a secular humanist conspiracy perhaps?). As NOODLE Theory clearly
unambiguously reveals, He has created the fundamental subatomic particles that form all matter in this
universe in His own quivering image! You, me, the Earth, the starseverything in the universeare all built of
trillions of tiny jiggling noodles, microscopic copies of our Divine Saucy Maker. ~ Steve Lawrence, Ph.D
So why dont we believe these people, even though theyve got schnazzy letters after their names? Well, for
starters we dont believe them because the only place we can find their assessment of the Flying Spaghetti
Monsters existence is on a web site that has no culpability for error. With no scrutiny, you can say anything
Why shouldnt a sane person buy either of them? There are many reasons.
1. Vague crediting
If you simply say, Heres what a scholar said, I have no means to go and check the sources validity. Your
source may be some wacko with a web page. Consider the first example above, the 100 proofs that the Earth
is flat from a scholar. That scholar was geologist William Carpenter, who wrote a book back in the 1800s that
even then was eviscerated by the scientific community. You can see who wrote it because I linked to the
article, but what if Id just quoted the article, attributed it to a scholar and called it good?
Recall my opening in which I express my frustration at having to point out the obvious. This is a mistake that a
Consider the second example above where I cite a peer review journal, but dont tell you what the journal
is. Had I not included a link, you would not have seen that the journal was Creation Science Quarterly, a
dubious publication to give its owners the impression of submission to peer-review, but which has been
ignored by the scientific community as a waste of time for its shoddy science (if you have an academic search
It does no good to get into a link-war when there is no scrutiny paid to the scholarship of the links. I could
easily have a link-war defending the position that the Earth was flat, if that were the case. So when the theist
utilizes poor scholarship, simply point out that they are on their way to a good academic conclusion: they are
realizing that experts, not laymen like us, should be the deciding force in what science says. Then simply point
out that if they were to really listen to the experts, as they are insisting they are, that the experts in peer-review
The universe does not look fine-tuned to produce life. We exist on a teeny piece of dust that has an
atmosphere and orbits within our stars habitable zone. 99.9999999999999999 (and on and on, you get the
picture) percent of this universe is positively lethal to life. If the universe was designed to produce life, the
designer did a piss-poor job of it. Moreover, even our little spec of dust is contaminated with disease, natural
disasters, and toothy animals who would love to have us for dinner. This is awful design.
However, black holes thrive in a vacuum, and most of the matter in this universe goes toward feeding
them. There are far more black holes in the universe than grains of sand on the Earth. If you want to talk
about what this universe appears designed to do, it appears designed to produce black holes. In this sense, it
is as though mankind were a fly trapped in an air bubble on the bottom of the ocean. Were going to die in
short order due to the environment around us, unless we take matters into our own hands. In the mean time,
we can look at all the enormous fish floating around. It is at this point we must ask ourselves for whom
Neptune created the sea; for the fly or for the fish?*
We dont know what the universe would look like under different conditions
Nobody gets to say what could exist if the constants of the universe were to change because they are all
derived from each other. We dont, for instance, know what the fine-structure constant would look like if even
one of the variables were altered the strength of the electromagnetic charge would be almost impossible to
predict. If the electromagnetic charge is impossible to predict, then we cant know what chemistry would look
like under these different conditions. If we do not know what chemistry would look like, its impossible to
predict whether or not life would be possible. People who make the fine-tuning argument, who say that life or
whatever would be impossible, are claiming knowledge they do not have. That is not good science, and it is
something you will be punished for with a tremendous amount of shame if you try it in peer-review.
Even under different conditions, the universe would still look like something. It doesnt matter what the odds
are for this current configuration, some configuration is inevitable. Imagine if you could lay out plastic cups all
across the state of Nebraska and toss a ping pong ball out of an airplane as you flew over. Whichever cup it
landed in, Im sure the odds would be astronomicalbut somebody has to win the lottery in this case.
Consider gravity. Often youll hear the claim that if gravity were even slightly more or less powerful that life
could not exist. This is ludicrous. Gravity is about 10^-39 (a thousand billion billion billion billion) times weaker
than the electromagnetic force, so you have a lot of wiggle room here. In fact, the force of gravity is so weak
that it is irrelevant in determining molecular dynamics in all of our equations. In computer simulations dealing
They will also say that if any of the three remaining forces (electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, strong
nuclear force) were altered in the slightest that life would be impossible. Recent work in peer-review has
produced proof that a universe without the WNF, the second strongest of the fundamental forces, would look
Careful wording in life would be impossible arguments usually refers to life as we know it. To say that life
would be impossible if any of the universal constants were different assumes that life could not exist in any
other configuration, which is knowledge that we do not have (why not silicon-based life, rather than
carbon?). We do have an undeniable mountain of evidence establishing that life conforms to the environment
around it over time (natural selection), but we have never once seen the environment mold itself to
accommodate life. As we understand it, the universe and the Earth existed long before life and therefore could
not have been molded to accommodate life, so this observation makes sense. The point here is that assuming
the universe was fine-tuned to us and not the other way around is probably not the best starting point.
Moreover, as I showed in the previous section, life as we know it would be possible in universes with varying
physical forces.
Mystery
Science is full of mysteries. There is so much we do not know about this gloriously complex universe. But in
science we acknowledge our mysteries for what they are: unknowns. Beautiful unknowns, but unknowns none
the less. In science we would never invoke a mystery as an answer, that would be foolish. Yet this is precisely
what the theist attempts to do with fine-tuning arguments. Even if science had nothing to say about the
formation of life, the appearance of the universe, etc, what does that mean? That god did it? Of course not. It
would just mean we didnt know.
Cases for the truth of a claim are not built by disproving (or in the case of creationists, impotently ragging on)
other ideas. They are built on positive evidence for that claim, like the kind you will universally find in peer-
reviewed science.
To set it up syllogistically
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause
2. The universe began to exist
3. Therefore the universe has a cause
The above is the Kalam Cosmological Argument, and it has been run through the shredder by philosophers
repeatedly. William Lane Craig, one of the champions of Christian apologetics, loves this argument (it is
through him that most Christians who advance this argument came across it).
Lets dive in
Did our universe begin?
Yes, it did, at the Big Bang. But what can we deduce from this fact? If time and space did not begin to exist
before the Big Bang, then there was no time for god to do anything and no space for him to exist and do
anything in. If there was time and space before the Big Bang, then even if we had no idea what came before
the Big Bang, that doesnt mean that god is the automatic winner. The academically honest thing to do would
be to admit ignorance until we do know. However, we are slowly crawling our way past Plancks Wall.
The problem is that we cant reliably see what happens before the Big Bang at this time. We can do just fine at
T=+10^-43 (the smallest fraction of a second after the Big Bang, also called a Planck Unit. Gohere to get a
decent grasp of how big a Planck Unit is), but at T=0 were required to do a lot of division by zero, which
means physicists are kind of hosed when it comes to figuring out what happened there. This means that going
after T<0 is downright impossible given the math we presently have to work with.
However, this may be changing. Recently with Loop Quantum Gravity, we have produced workable models
that do take us back to T=0 and reveal a universe before ours that condensed and bounced back out (New
Scientist; 7/7/2007, Vol. 194 Issue 2611, p16-16, 1/2p). Another feasible explanation for what occurred before
T=0 is Brane Theory (AIP Conference Proceedings; 2004, Vol. 743 Issue 1, p410-416, 7p).
All pre-Big Bang ideas are still being tested, but thats the whole point they can be tested. They all predict
certain ways that the early universe would behave that can be compared to observable reality. Take
multiverse theory, for instance. Did you know that when you smash atoms together in a reactor it produces the
same ratio of particles every single time? Did you also know that we have established that the ratio of particles
produced by the Big Bang is the same ratio as when we smash atoms? This suggests that a Big Bang type of
event is naturally what happens when enough matter is crushed under enough pressure (like, say, in the
trillions of black holes in the universe). Of course, since nothing can escape a black hole, these events would
have to occur inward into another pocket of space-time (hence multiverse). If this system is true, the
So even though our universe began, there are far more plausible explanations in terms of science than a god.
Infinite regression
This is often used to establish that our universe had a beginning without the theist realizing that it favors a
naturalistic outcome. The idea here is that if you assume that everything has a cause then you get into a
regression of asking what caused x? What caused the thing that caused x? What caused the thing that
caused the thing that caused x? And so on and so forth. Eventually you just get to the point where you say
that this regression goes on forever, which theyll say is impossible, or that something simply always existed.
Now if we take the second conclusion, that something always existed, why does that lead to god? We know
that the universe produces amazingly complex order all by itself with no appeal to god being necessary. So if
something always existed, why not matter and the laws of physics? This would be even more probable since
we know those things to exist already. If we get it down to a conclusion that something always existed, either
god who created matter and the laws of physics, or just matter and the laws of physics, Occams Razor makes
god a superfluous variable and the latter explanation more probably true.
Does everything that exists have a cause?
No.
This is the very first premise of the cosmological argument and it is advanced on the idea that it is plainly
perceptible through common sense. One should note though, that it is precisely that type of reasoning that
Physical events at the subatomic level are observed to have no evident cause. Examples include an atom at
an excited energy level dropping to a lower level and emitting a photon and the decay of a radioactive
nucleus. In fact, the majority of an atom, the building blocks of matter, are a matter of virtual particles
fluctuating in and out of existence without any apparent cause. And if our current experiments with the LHC
turn out the way we think they will, it will mean have even larger implications on things occurring without
perceptible causation. These type of things are the whole reason we have acquired a very firm understanding
So why does science operate under cause and effect? Because at the macro level this is how things work,
even if they dont at the quantum level. Our inability to combine general relativity with quantum mechanics has
been the main problem keeping science from marching past Plancks wall. Even Einstein himself tried to
reconcile the two and failed. It is as a solution to this conundrum that Loop Quantum Gravity was conceived.
Could a universe come from nothing?
Yes.
The theist often asks the pointed question, Why is there something rather than nothing? The easy response
is, Why is non-existence a more natural state than existence? or Why is there a god rather than nothing?
Now take a moment and think about nothing. Does it have qualities? If nothing has qualities, doesnt that
make it a something? Physicists therefore tend to define nothing as as simple as you can get. But we know
that simplicity is unstable in this universe, naturally moving towards complexity. Nobel laureate Frank Wilczek
took this through to its natural conclusion by saying, The answer ot the ancient question Why is there
something rather than nothing? would then be that nothing is unstable. In short, the natural state of things is
Whats more, in a no boundary universe, physicists have calculated the odds of something existing rather than
nothing, and it is over 60% (Stenger, The Comprehensible Cosmos, supplement H.).
For a full explanation on the nature of nothing and why our universe could originate from nothing,watch this
The first premise of the cosmological argument, that everything which comes into existence has a cause, is not
I realize that science is counter-intuitive at times. Its important to understand that our newest, most
exhilarating ideas are derived using the same methods that you trust to make your cell phone work or to make
airplanes fly. You likely do not understand the laws of electromagnetism operant in making your computer
monitor work, but you realize that the experts do. Yet, for the believer, they stop trusting the same experts
when it comes to cosmology, often in deference to what a group of people ignorant of almost all human
discovery decided to scribble down in the desert thousands of years ago. This misappropriation of trust