Analysis of A Webinar: "Lexis, Speaking, and The Non-Native Speaker Teacher"

Diccin Inglesa I Orgeira, C.
Guadalupe
Final paper Legajo 102915/8
2016
Introduction
The aim of this paper is to analyse the development of the webinar Lexis, Speaking and
the Non-native Speaker Teacher presented by Hugh Dellar and published in the YouTube
channel of TEFL Equity Advocates on May 20th, 2015; and to establish the similarities and
differences that can be identified in comparison with university lectures.
The theoretical framework for this analysis is based on Malcom Bensons Lecture
listening in an ethnographic perspective and Lynne Youngs University lectures macro-
structure and micro-features, included in the book Academic Listening: Research
Perspectives, edited by John Flowerdew in 1994. While both chapters focus on the study of
university lectures, many of the elements described can also be applied to webinars; though
they are surely affected by the way in which technology mediates their production.
An Ethnographic Approach
In Lecture listening in an ethnographic perspective, Malcom Benson produces a
descriptive theory of learning which interprets it as a specific and developed culture, and
allows for an analysis of lectures based on sociolinguistic features similar to those larger
entities we call cultures. From the nine features described by Benson, only the following
seem to be applicable to the webinar considered in this paper.
To begin with, following Bensons characterization of a lecture as a performance, it can be

said that the webinar seems to share some of the language which is representative of it:
there are repetitions and pauses, and the speakers attitude towards the content is revealed,
especially in the strands of discourse which will be analysed in relation to Lynne Young
concept of Evaluation phases.
Secondly, unlike lectures, the webinar is not related to any university or course; it is a free-
standing speech event which has its own structure, and does not build on previous events
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Diccin Inglesa I Orgeira, C. Guadalupe
2016
nor anticipates a next one. Still, it was organised and supported by TEFL Equity Advocates
and the Belgian English Language Teachers Association (BELTA Belgium), and is, to a
certain extent, connected to other presentations which are hosted by the same institution
and deal with similar topics.
Besides, as a single-standing event, this webinar is not organised in relation to other

learning channels: no previous nor further readings are required and, though encouraged,
active participation is not necessarily expected. Instances of interaction between the speaker
and the audience will be more thoroughly described following Lynne Youngs account of
Interaction phases.
The fourth feature mentioned by Benson is that lectures are organised in specific contexts of
time and place. The context in which the webinar takes place, however, is not as specific as
that of a lecture. Technology has made it possible for the webinar to be broadcast
worldwide, and at the same time recorded and later published online.
As regards the norms and rules of the temporary speaking and listening community, it must
be said that although the relation between the speaker and the audience does not seem
completely asymmetrical, for the register used is quite informal, the speaker holds the floor
of the conversation most of the time, and interaction is scarce. Instances of turn-taking can
only be identified when the host intervenes, and the possibility of asking for clarification is
hindered by the fact that though participants may ask questions at all times through the chat
box, not all of them receive an answer.
Lastly, although Benson describes a specific range of events which occur in connection to a
lecture, including lecturing, listening, note-taking, extensive and intensive reading, writing,
interaction, group work, and role-playing, only some of these events are allowed for in the
context of a webinar. Listening is, in most cases, the main activity, although note-taking
might be taking place as well. Interaction between participants is available through the chat
box, but it is not a main focus in the webinar.
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A Systemic Functional Description

Lynne Youngs model of analysis for university lectures is based upon the Systemic
Functional Grammar framework, which allows for a description of the connection between
contextual factors and the linguistic choices made by the speaker. Thus, she adopts the
concepts of field, tenor and mode and analyses their influence on the linguistic code in
terms of ideational, interpersonal and textual metafunctions.
The participants in the webinar include the speaker, Hugh Dellar; the host, Marek
Kiczkowiak; and the audience, composed of around 25 listeners from different countries.
The degree of formality is low, and the speaker does not impose a distance between himself
and the listeners; in fact, he seems to be quite friendly, and this is reflected his linguistic
choices. The register with which the webinar is delivered is mostly informal: there are
many instances of vague language used by the speaker, such as things like, kind(s) of,
whatever, a bunch of language , sort of, lots and lots, its a bit like, something
like, and any of that stuff. Besides, the speaker utters some expressions which in other
contexts might be considered inappropriate, or even unacceptable: thats bollocks,
bloody, and shit are some examples. Many instances of discourse markers can be
identified as well, among which ok, you know, and so, are most recurrent.
In relation to the functional tenor that Young describes, it might be said that as the
speakers main purpose is to share his opinion on the topic being dealt with, mood is
usually declarative, with scarce instances of commands and rhetorical questions. His
attitude towards the content is strongly expressed in what Young labels Evaluation phases,
which will be described below.
In the webinar, the mode is spoken and usually monologic, except for the beginning and
ending, when the speaker interacts with the host. At the same time, speech can be described
as at least partially planned, for there are slides which accompany the discourse, though not
completely scripted. This characteristic, in a way, accounts for the instances of repetition,
false starts and vague language that can be found throughout the presentation.
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A Structural Analysis: Phasal Description

Young proposes an analysis of lectures based on six different phases which are recurring in
their development. In the webinar, the same phases can be identified, though partly shaped
by the channel in which it takes place.
First of all, several Discourse Structuring phases can be identified. Following Youngs
description, it can be said that this type of phase acts as a prediction of the following
strands of discourse, easing the burden of comprehension of new information. In the
webinar, the speaker uses these phases to provide an overview of the content, and to
introduce different phases.
[01:17] The talk today really is kind of about my own feelings and developing awareness of
non-native speaker teachers, particularly form a kind of lexical point of view.
[08:29] So what Im gonna try to do the next sort of ten, fifteen minutes is to assuage some
of those fears if any of you have them...
The speaker then signals each fear described with a different Discourse Structuring phase:
[08:48] So, the first thing Ive often heard

[14:26] The second fear that I often hear expressed
[24:36] The final fear that I often hear
More instances of this type can be identified as the speaker indicates the beginning of other
phases, such as a Conclusion phase and an Example phase:
[28:18] So just a quick summary.

[26:54] Ok? Just one example
This signposting allows the audience to follow clearly as he moves from one phase to
another.
Secondly, Conclusion phases are effectively introduced by the speaker after a Content
phase, to summarise previously developed ideas. According to Lynne Young, the repetition
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and reformulation of key content allows the speaker to ensure that the information is
grasped by the students or, in this case, the members of the audience.
In the webinar, there are different Conclusion phases which deal with the same topic:
[12:08] So obviously some language is culturally rooted.

[14:17] We need to be aware of language which is culturally rooted and actually we need to
root it out of the EFL classroom.
Still, after some time, the speaker brings this idea back, together with an Evaluation
segment:
[28:18] So just a quick summary, ok, before we kind of wrap up. As I was saying, I think
some lexis is culturally rooted, but the more rooted the piece of lexis is, the less
useful or less relevant it is to EFL students.
Evaluation phases are used by lecturers to express, as Young explains, judgement on

information given to the audience. In addition to the instance mentioned above, occurring at
[28:18], several evaluation phases can be identified throughout the webinar:
[13:28] I dont want this kind of language in my course books. I dont think its
appropriate. I dont think its relevant.
[32:35] Its a really good thing to get students to look at, to think about, and to talk about
the language a bit more.
Although Young claims that lecturers primarily evaluate points they have already made,
an instance of evaluation is seen at the beginning of the webinar, before any Content phase
has taken place:
[00:55] HUGH: Its a real pleasure to be here and obviously, you know, one of the reasons
Im here is because I think the work that Marek and TEFL Equity are doing is
really really important. And you know I find it kind of depressing that were still
even having to have these discussions about the value of non-native speaker
teachers.
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Another type of phase described by Lynne Young is the Interaction phase. The author
states that it serves to indicate the extent to which these lecturers maintain contact with
their audience in order to both reduce the distance between themselves and their listeners
and to ensure that what has been taught is in fact understood. In the case of the webinar,
the possibility of interaction with the audience is affected by the channel. Still, the speaker
acknowledges the listeners and encourages them to ask questions and make comments
through the chat box:
[04:19] And just among you the people listening to this particular presentation
[37:58] But if any of you have got any questions you want to ask or something, please do.
Besides, he even involves the listeners in an exercise, asking them to analyse some
sentences and to discuss the concept of culturally rooted language:
[09:16] Im gonna show you a bunch of language, okay? Some different expressions. All
Id like you to do is have a look through and just try to decide [] So if you
wanna type in the text box- the chat box
The fifth phase presented by Young is that which contains Theory or Content. In the
webinar, these phases consist of comments on the speakers personal experience as a
teacher and his views on education.
[03:03] And I would suggest that lexis is very much the key to this kind of fluency, and
what this means is, at low levels, students [] need to learn lots of verb-noun
collocations, ideally with the grammar embedded.
[18:07] I think a third fear that I sometimes hear expressed by non-natives is this fear of
getting caught out. [] This is exactly the same whether you are a native speaker
or a non-native speaker, and in a sense theres only one solution to it. [] you put
your hands up and say listen, Ive never heard it. It cant be very useful.
[26:22] I think another issue is actually in monolingual classes where you share a first
language and the first kind of nationality with the vast majority of your students,
[] youll be able to hang language onto that in a way that a native couldnt do
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It is worth noting that most Content phases are accompanied with an Example phase,
which is the last type developed by Young. Strands of this phase are used by speakers to
illustrate theoretical concepts through concrete examples familiar to students in the
audience. In the webinar, Example phases usually consist of anecdotes drawn from the
speakers teaching experience.
[19:21] I had a proficiency student a few years ago, Swedish woman, and she came in one
day and asked me about a particular expression
[26:54] Ok? Just one example, I mean Ive taught a lot of Japanese kids over the years, and
one of the things that I can do is I can explain certain words in English by hooking
it onto Japanese
Conclusion
Although the examples and explanations provided above seem to indicate that many of the
features attributed to university lectures can be useful in the description of webinars, there
are also plenty of differences which cannot be accounted for following Benson and
Youngs theories. Nevertheless, this genre is still new and constantly evolving as
technology advances, and thus more inquisitive and specific work is needed in order to
develop a model of analysis which will become an aid to the learning process of native and
non-native students of English, and at the same time will open the door to more thorough
and fruitful study in this field.
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Bibliography
TEFL Equity Advocates. Dellar, Hugh. (2015), Lexis, Speaking and the Non-native
Speaker Teacher. [Online]. Available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyEv58tyTaQ
Last accessed 29/10/2016.
Benson, M. (1994), Lecture listening in an ethnographic perspective. In J. Flowerdew

(Ed.), Academic Listening: Research Perspectives (pp. 181-198). Cambridge University
Press.
Young, L. (1994), University lectures macro-structure and micro-features. In J.

Flowerdew (Ed.), Academic Listening: Research Perspectives (pp. 159-176). Cambridge
University Press.
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Appendix
Lexis, Speaking and the Non-native Speaker Teacher
Speaker: Hugh Dellar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyEv58tyTaQ
Published on 20 May 2015 (YouTube Channel: TEFL Equity Advocates)
Hugh Dellar is a teacher trainer and a teacher with over 20 years of international
experience. He has spoken at numerous ELT conferences and given professional
development sessions on a range of topics around the world. This is how he summarised his
webinar: "That much everyday language use is highly formulaic is now widely accepted.
However, there has been much debate as to whether such a view of language has any
relevance for non-native speaker teachers of English as an International Language. There
have been countless claims put forward to explain why non-natives may well struggle with
less traditional modes of teaching. However, there are sound reasons why non-natives have
the upper hand when it comes to teaching lexically. Ill be outlining these reasons whilst
also addressing the flexible cultural positions language can be utilized in, the lunacy of
demonizing translation and the wonders of local knowledge!"
[00:02]
MAREK: So. So yeah I'm really looking forward to this webinar. I think it's a very
important topic and I think it's going to be hugely interesting. So. Yeah I'm all ears myself
as well. And once again big thanks to DELTA Belgium and James Taylor for helping us
put this together. And you can tweet about it too at TEFL equity and share this event as
well on Facebook.
[00:30]
HUGH: You non-native speakers Marek with your fancy idioms like I'm all ears. You're
going to get people confused and not going to know if youre native or non-native. Things
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were much easier in the old days when non-natives never used to use idioms properly. So
hello everyone. Hi. Thank you very much to Marek for putting me on.
[00:55]
At the risk of sounding a bit like Bono or something, it's a real pleasure to be here and
obviously, you know, one of the reasons I'm here is because I think the work that Marek
and TEFL Equity are doing is really really important. And you know I find it kind of
depressing that we're still even having to have these discussions about the value of non-
native speaker teachers. Um, the talk today really is kind of about my own feelings and
developing awareness of non-native speaker teachers, particularly from a kind of lexical
point of view.
[01:36]
Some of you may know that with my teaching, with my writing, I guess I'm one of the first
wave of post lexical approach teachers, post lexical approach writers; and a lot of the time
when we've been working with big publishing houses, and when weve been doing
conferences, we're often told of about the lexical approach. It's all right for native speaker
teachers you know non-natives have had no problem with it. I have a problem with it. And
you know non-natives prefer to stick to grammar.
[02:00]
And this is something that kind of interested me and puzzled me, and my whole talk really
is a response to some of my thoughts about those kinds of issues. I have this thing where I
meet a lot of non-native speaker teachers and most non-natives are very much at the
opposite end of the spectrum in their English use to where I'm at with my ability to use
their own first languages, because time and time and time again and, you know I noticed it
with Marek just a few minutes ago, what I'm impressed with when I meet non-natives is not
grammatical accuracy. I mean I never stop and think.
[02:37]
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Oh, He used the third conditional. What I notice is much more peoples use of idioms,
people's use of phrases of metaphors. I hear people say things like Im all ears, oh it is the
end of the world, it might be worth a try, it shouldn't be a problem. And, for me, that's very
much what marks someone out as being a proper fluent user of the language.
[03:03]
And I would suggest that lexis is very much the key to this kind of fluency .And what this
means is at low levels students wanting to have basic kinds of conversations, they need lots
and lots and lots of lexis. They need to learn lots of verb-noun collocation, ideally with the
grammar embedded. So just things like you know what are you doing this weekend? Im
going shopping. What are you doing now. Do you want to get something to eat. Hey,
you've made a mistake. They need adjective-noun collocations; things like the traffic was
really heavy, that's a difficult question. They need huge number of little mini fixed
expressions. So how's it going, not too bad, not very often and not as often as I'd like to, not
as often as I used to.
[03:50]
And as they get better, ok, obviously, they need to keep on learning more of these kinds of
things. But also, they need to start learning more idiomatic language. You know, go on,
carry on, I'm all ears, oh its on the tip of my tongue, oh it completely slipped my mind.
And they need to start using more metaphorical kind of language, often extended
metaphors. You know ,we got a bit sidetracked, we're wasting precious time here, I've
reached a bit of a crossroads in my life.
[04:20]
And just among you the people listening to this particular presentation, ok, if you could
somehow cut into your minds and access all of the language that exists in your head, you
know tens of thousands of these kind of blocks of language, you use them all the time;
when you when you're catching up with people, complimenting, making small talk,
bitching, flirting, you know going about your everyday life; and you can't function without
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that kind of prefabricated chunk-based language, because one of the problems with
speaking is the sheer speed the speaking happens at. Just putting thoughts into words takes
time. Learning to string everything together takes time. Being able to keep the floor takes
time. If you then add two or three extra people into the conversation, they may often be
more fluent than you. It's quite amazing that anybody manages to say anything, actually.
[05:23]
And I think it's worth asking, how do we do it? And I think one thing that's really clear is,
actually, when we're speaking fluently, ok, we're not using this kind of fallback plan of
grammar plus words. Actually,what we are doing is reusing whole collocations, sentences,
even whole conversations that we've had before. When you say things like going to work
on a Monday morning tomorrow and you have that kind of Monday morning conversation
where you go something like, hey how are you, did you have a good weekend? Yeah not
too bad, didn't do very much, wasn't very busy. I stayed in Saturday, did a few bits and
pieces for work, and then went out to dinner with some friends on Saturday evening, and
Sunday just went for a jog etc.. You're not creating that using your knowledge of grammar
and words, you're basically remembering wholes and repeating wholes; and if we want our
students to be able to do this fluently, and I would suggest we do want our students to be
able to do this fluently, then what it really means is, in the classroom and outside of class,
they need to spend a lot of time studying lexis, processing lexis and using lexis. Ok?
[06:46]
In a sense that's two thirds of what I wanted to talk about, because that's lexis and speaking
covered, okay? I think it's very hard to argue that spoken fluency doesn't involve these kind
of aspects. And maybe you're wondering how all of this connects to those of you out there
who are non-native speaker teachers; and, in a way this is one of the reasons I'm really
happy to do this talk for TEFL equity because, as I'm sure you all know, still there's a lot of
prejudice out there still against non-native speaker teachers. Theres this kind of parental
expectations. You know, if only my little child could be put in front of a native speaker,
theyll somehow magically learn English through osmosis. The school employment policies
and the kind of things Mareks fighting against which still favor native speakers. Natives
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often get better wages. The qualifications that are required are often less on the part of
native speakers than they are on not natives. And I think all too often, the native speakers
get the fun stuff. You know we get to do the fluency, and the conversation classes, and the
non-natives still get dumped with the kind of bilingual grammar classes or whatever. And I
think as a result, it's changing but not as quickly as maybe it should. As a result, a lot of
non-native speaker teachers end up with a kind of, I don't know, inferiority complex,
especially when it comes to teaching lexis; and for me this seems ironic, because teaching
lexis is vital to students who are hoping to become as fluent as you guys are.
[08:29]
So what Im gonna try to do for the next sort of 10 15 minutes is to assuage some of those
fears, if any of you have them, okay? And to try to persuade you to actually in lots of ways
the ideal lexical teacher is a non-native speaker teacher rather than a native speaker teacher.
[08:48]
So, the first thing I've often heard sort of muted or put forward is this idea that somehow
lexis is more culturally rooted than grammar. Grammar somehow easier, supposedly, for
non-natives to teach because it's not tied in to sort of cultural baggage. So I'm going to
explore the degree to which culture is actually rooted, to which lexis is actually rooted in
culture.
[09:16]
OK. Im gonna show you a bunch of language, okay, some different expressions. All I'd
like you to do is have a look through and just trying to decide from the expressions that you
see which of them do you feel are culturally rooted, okay? Which of them do you think
require a specific knowledge of British culture or American culture in order to explain them
to your students. So if you wanna type in the text box, the chat box, which of these
expressions do you think are culturally rooted or how many of them are culturally rooted?
Okay? Ill give you a couple of minutes to think while I catch up with the chat box.
[10:05]
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Sergei and Natalia, in there first. Nose pierced, thats interesting, Ill come to that in a
minute. People dont have their nose pierced in Brazil, then. Bet they do. I bet not only
noses as well. Last three, last three. Shankill Road Yeah. Ok. So I think were reaching a
consensus here, ok. My feeling would be I mean, arguably the last four, because you know
thumbs up is a kind of cultural construct I suppose, although I think actually it's it's very-
very widely used around the world, you know, sticking your thumbs up to mean it's a good
thing or it's a- it's ok. I would argue that the last three things here, okay? You cant explain
these or understand these things if you don't know some aspects about Britain.
[11:09]
So if you don't know what lad-lit is, you don't know about the whole boom in the late 80s
early 90s of kind of male oriented literature, of who- of which Nick Hornby was at the
forefront; and you know that the whole way in which there was a Nickhornbyisation of lad-
lit, where suddenly books aimed at men were all about music and football, you can't
understand that sentence. If you don't know that the Shankill Road is an area in Belfast
which was at the epicenter of the troubles, the fighting between the Catholic and the
Protestant communities, and the paramilitary groups connected to them. If you don't know
that you don't understand, that it's like the Shankill Road round there means it's wild and
dangerous and a bit crazy. If you don't understand that the old loony left is what the right
wing newspapers, which is most of them here these days, used to call the Labour Party back
when it was actually a sort of left wing party, as a way of demonizing them for being a real
left wing party, you cant understand the last sentence.
[12:08]
So, obviously, some language is culturally rooted, ok? I would say particularly those three.
Actually, the rest of the expressions, even the idiomatic language, even things like that like
a fish out of water, beggars can't be choosers, even things like she's had her nose pierced.
You don't need any knowledge of Britan to explain those things, ok? You don't need to
refer to Britain or to America or whatever to explain most things. You can explain them by
referring to Singapore or Holland or whatever. The idioms may well have locally
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equivalents, so maybe in your own first language you may well have things like I felt like a
fish out of water. In lots of languages it seems to be basically the same.
[12:52]
So I think you know we need to be honest and accept that some lexis is culturally rooted,
ok? But, the good news is, I think, the language which is culturally rooted is basically
useless to students who are learning English as a foreign language, or English as a Lingua
franca. Students are not learning to be British, they're not learning to come and live here;
they're just learning the English language. And for me as a teacher, even as a teacher
working in London, and as a course book writer, and even as a course book writer of
advanced course books, I don't want this kind of language in my course books, I don't think
it's appropriate, I don't think it's relevant.
[13:32]
I also think we need to resist this idea that language somehow encodes or contains culture.
For me it just seems crazy. Language is a tool for encoding whatever values you wish to
impose on it. Um, recently through the door I've had all kinds of political leaflets, from
extreme right wing organizations, trade unions, socialist coalition organizations,
legalization of cannabis organizations; all of these texts express different cultural positions,
but they're all expressed through English, and there is no inherent culture contained within
the language, ok? So I think, you know, we need to be aware of language which is
culturally rooted, and actually, we need to root it out of the EFL classroom.
[14:26]
The second fear that I often hear expressed, and that native speakers often use as a kind of
weapon over non-natives, is this idea that you know if you're not native your English isn't
as good as some perfect imaginary native speakers English. The reality is actually for
many of you, your English, particularly as a kind of medium for international
communication is far more competent and far more proficient than many native speakers
is. But I think the reality is, you know, for lots of non-natives that's not always going to be
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the case. It may well be true that my own personal English happens to be better, whatever
that might mean, broader, wider, richer, you know, more flexible than perhaps some non-
native speakers might be. I live in London, I read a lot, I know lots of slang and idioms and
obscure bits of lexis.
[15:23]
All I would say about that is, actually from a teaching point of view, so what? Ok, if you
imagine you're standing in a desert, and you're looking out across the horizon, and on the
horizon much in the distance there's a little camel, and the camels slowly trotting across
the horizon. If I ask you what you see, what you're going to report is the 2 percent of the
picture that you're looking at that's changing. You're going to say, oh, there's a camel
walking across the horizon. You're not going to notice or report or pay attention to the rest
of what you're seeing, because 98 percent of it isn't actually changing.
[16:00]
And I think it's very similar with language, you know, it's easy to fixate on the 5 percent
that might be different between me and you, or, you know, a non-native and a native. It's
much easier to forget that 95 percent of our language is basically the same; the same as
British English and American English is, you know, it's basically the same language. And,
a lot of the 5 percent that may be different is going to be language which is very, very, very
low frequency language among native speakers. Some of it may be regional, some of it may
be class-bound, some of it may be dialectual, all of it is going to be of little or no use to
students of English as a foreign language, ok?
[16:45]
I think also just knowing a word or knowing a phrase doesn't mean you can say anything
useful about it. I get lots of native speakers on my CELTA courses where I watch them try
to explain words and students will ask them something like, you know, what does it mean
beggars can't be choosers? And theyre sort of amazed that people don't understand. So
they'll say, well, you know, if you're- if you're- if you're begging, if youre a beggar, you
know, you can't- you can't choose things, you can't be a chooser. And they really struggle to
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explain it because theyve never had to think about what it means themselves, or theyve
never had it explained to them themselves. If you're a non-native speaker teacher, youve
learned English, ok? I haven't, I just picked it up by accident. So in a sense you're a much
better role model for your students. Your students can actually hope to become you. They
can never hope to become me, short of dying and being reincarnated in North London. And
the fact that for many of you, you're working in monolingual contexts, where you share a
first language with your students, it means you understand intuitively, in your blood, in
your bones, in your DNA, the kind of problems that your students are going to have when
they're moving from that first language into English. And you know that because you've
been there, you've walked that same road.
[18:08]
I think a third fear that I sometimes hear expressed by non-natives is this fear of getting
caught out, ok? Well, you know, maybe the course book has a phrase you'd never seen in it,
students might ask you about an idiom or a phrasal verb, you know, there might be a tricky
question that gets you caught out. I'm guessing quite a few of you have sometimes felt like
this. Yeah? If you have, all I would say about this is, join the club, ok? Welcome to being a
teacher. This is exactly the same whether you're a native speaker or a non-native speaker,
and in a sense, there's only one solution to it. You have to basically just put your hands up
and say, I'm not sure this is how I think its used. If that doesn't work, you put your hands
up and say, listen, I've never heard it, it can't be very useful. You might be thinking it's easy
for me to say that because I'm a native speaker and people will believe me, but actually in a
way it's worse because if I get caught out, ok?, what does it make me look like? If you get
caught out you know you look like a diligent non-native who's doing their best.
[19:19]
I had a proficiency student a few years ago, Swedish woman, and she came in one day and
asked me about a particular expression and I said to her you know, it's not English. Yes it
is. I said that you must have misheard it or something, trust me it's not English. She then
pulled out a magazine and pointed to the page and there was this expression. So then what I
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had to do this to sort of go right, well it is English, but I've never seen it before, you'll
probably never get to see it again, I've never heard it, it cant be very useful, forget it.
[19:53]
I think also it's probably heartening for non-natives to realise that lots and lots of native
speakers, if they're going to get any good at teaching, have had to sweat like crazy about all
the grammar we've had to teach from the course books, you know, when I first started
teaching I was just half a step ahead of most of my students. I would go home, and I would
memorise all of the grammar explanations in the back of the book, so that when students
asked me the next day, why can't I say I've been there yesterday? I would be able to repeat,
oh that's because we don't use the present perfect simple with a definite past time marker.
And the students would look at me like I was a genius, but it was simply because I stayed
one step ahead. In the same way, you know, I still worry when people ask me, what's the
difference between sick and ill? What's the difference between injury and wound? What's
the difference between kill and murder? And theyre difficult questions for anyone to
answer, ok? This ability, yeah I still consult the dictionary every day when I'm going to go
and teach, even if I'm teaching my own material. I look in a good learners dictionary, I get
explanations and particularly I get examples, so I've got the examples up my sleeve. And
this development of collocational awareness, this ability to access usage in real time, is
difficult and it doesn't come easy to anyone, native or non-native. But we all have to get
better at doing it. And it's a bit like the Buddhist journey of a thousand miles, you know,
its a bloody long road to go down, but you only go down it by making the first step. And
for me it's one of the things that keeps teaching fascinating, the fact that I'm constantly
learning and thinking about how the language works. And that's the same for me as it is for
all of you guys.
[21:47]
A fourth fear that I've often heard expressed particularly by non- natives is this feeling of
not being sure you can trust your intuition, this feeling that you might try to correct you
students or reformulate your students but it will be wrong by the standard of some
imaginary perfect native speaker, ok? Again, if youve ever felt this, all I would say is so
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what? There is no native speaker watching you teach, I hope, you know, check for cameras
maybe hidden on the walls. But-but you speak the best English in your class, and in a way
your goal always has to be getting your students closer to your English rather than to the
English of this imaginary perfect native speaker.
[22:37]
And, um, Ill give you an example of this. A couple of years ago I was running a teacher
training course and I was talking to the trainees, CELTA course, they were mixed native,
non-native, about how I wanted them to start listening to the students a bit more, and
reformulating more, rephrasing based on what the students were trying to say. You know a
little kind of (inaudible)-like moments; and the first teacher to start doing this was a Polish
woman called Kasha; and she- it was a pretty intermediate class she was teaching, and she
heard a Spanish guy say, this is no good use my time. And she wrote up on the board, tt's
double u of my time, and at the end she just stopped and said, ok, I heard some great things.
Juan Luis I heard you say it's no good use your time. I know what you mean. A better way
to say it would be- Its- That's right. It's waste of my time. And she wrote this up on the
board. And during the feedback I was pointing out, did you see what Kasha did, it was
great, she's the first one of you to pick up on all of this and to rephrase things. One of the
native speakers, whod never done any correction of any of the students at all, basically sort
of went yeah, but she was wrong, and Kasha immediately realised oh my god it should have
been Its a waste of time, and started kind of beating herself up. And for me you know it
was doubly annoying. It was annoying because the English guy suddenly noticed Kashas
mistakes and felt able to correct it but never noticed his students mistakes. And it was
annoying because Kasha thought this was a problem, whereas for me, the criteria shouldn't
be, would a native speaker say it? As though all native speakers agree about all of these
things; but the criteria should rather be, will my students sound better? Ok? And I would
argue, you sound much better saying it's waste of my time than it's no good use my time.
[24:36]
The final fear that I often hear is this idea that monolingual classes are really different from
multilingual classes. And obviously, you know, in some ways they are, but in other ways
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2016
they're not. We don't have time to do this but if you imagine doing this you know you take
10 people that you know from your country and you all choose these things, probably
you're going to pick different songs, different films, maybe different public figures, maybe
different dishes, maybe different things you worry about, or different things you're looking
forward to. And I think the point is to always bear in mind as a teacher, simply sharing
nationalities doesn't mean you have anything in common with people. Ive been woken up
on Friday morning to a government that I absolutely wasn't expecting to see ruling the
country I live in, and wondering what on earth is wrong with people where I live, and
having that feeling that I had a lot in the 80s growing up, of um not relating to the vast
number of English people who were around me. I can report that, you know, myself and
many many English people are very different; whereas me and many of my foreign friends
are very very similar, and Im sure you've all had that experience as well. And you know
being monolingual doesn't mean monocultural. All of your students will bring different
tastes, different experiences, different opinions, different interests to class; and I think the
best way we can all deal with this, and I'm sure we will try to, is to treat the students as
people. As a course book writer it's something I'm very conscious of because I think, you
know, we need to stop asking students to somehow represent national cultures; we need to
basically ask them to represent themselves.
[26:22]
I think another issue is, actually, in monolingual classes, where you share a first language
and the first kind of nationality with the vast majority of your students, if you are a non-
native, you will know more about the mic-macro-culture of your students. You will know
about the cultural phenomenon , the characters, the events, the TV shows, the trends that
they all know about, and youll be able to hang language onto that in a way that a native
couldnt do unless theyd lived in that country for a long time.
[26:54]
OK just one example, I mean, Ive taught a lot of Japanese kids over the years; and one of
the things that I can do is, I can explain certain words in English by hooking it into
Japanese. So if someone asked me, what does right-wing mean? I can say oh you know in
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2016
Japan like the (word in Japanese) parties, theyre right-wing; and the students will
understand that in a way that, you know, it's much easier than me trying to explain 50 or 60
different things. If they ask me, what does lead a sheltered life, like, mean? You kind of can
explain it like you know the (word in Japanese) people, uh you know, those kind of kids.
And because I know those things in Japan and I know those cultural phenomenon and the
Japanese words for them, I can hook the language onto those kinds of things. And that took
me a long time to learn how to do. Non-natives, you can do that instinctively because you
know the language, the culture, the phenomenon that your students will know about. I also
think that, you know, teaching more lexis rather than grammar helps to provide the
language that the students can hook onto. And you know, looking at the comments here,
Natalia and people absolutely, culture is not a monolithic block; and what you can do with
lexis is, you can just kind of give the students lexis to word their own worlds, you can
provide them with the vocabulary to express their own realities.
[28:18]
So, uh, just a quick summary, ok, before we kind of wrap up. As I was saying, I think some
lexis is culturally rooted, but the more culturally rooted the piece of lexis is, the less useful
or less relevant it is to EFL students. The vast majority of your English is the same as the
vast majority of mine. That's why you're able to sit here and listen to me, and interact with
all these other people around the world in English. The English I know that maybe you
don't does not belong in an EFL classroom. You know, maybe it belongs in a North London
pub; and you are a better and more realistic role models for your students, they can aspire to
become as good as you. And the fact that youve learned English, and also speak Russian,
also speak whatever your first language is, means that you're more aware of all the kind of
problems that your students are going to have, than a native speaker would be, unless that
native had lived in that country for a long time, and had learned the language of his
students, ok? You will get caught out, it's not because you're a non-native, it's because
you're a teacher, ok? Going back to Higors point earlier, um this development of language
awareness and this thinking about how language works, it doesn't come naturally to
anybody, it's difficult. It takes time and it's- it's the joy and the beauty and the wonder of
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2016
what we do as teachers. One of them. There is no secret native speaker spying on your
classes, I hope. You speak the best English in your class. Getting students closer to where
youre at should be the general goal. As I was just saying, I think you know lexis allows
students to express their lives and personalities far more than a heavily grammar dominated
syllabus. It gives them more more more colors to paint with. And it really means that the
monolingual classroom is still allowed to be multicultural. And the fact that you know
loads about the culture world your students live in means that you can use this knowledge
to hang English onto. You can use the kind of first culture and the first language as a bridge
to kind of glue the English to.
[30:24]
Im gonna just finish really by a few things I've been thinking about a lot over the last few
years as a writer as well as a teacher, which is things that I think teachers can demand from
course books in order to help deal with the realities of the monolingual classroom. And I
think the first thing is, actually, that there needs to be input richness. If students arent
living in English speaking countries they need more input, not less. And I think what
happens is coursebooks and often teachers scramble around looking for hot new topics. But
actually, there's nothing much to say about them. If any of you have ever had to teach those
lessons about things like dangerous sports. You know, it goes nowhere in the class. It goes
usually like, so do you do any dangerous sports? No, I dont, theyre too dangerous. You?
No, theyre too dangerous. Finished. The other problem is often of course, students know
each other quite well and they don't want to talk about what happened in their own country
or whatever. A few years ago I was in Germany, and I was watching a teacher teach. And
she put this incredible amount of effort into preparing this class.
[31:40]
Hey, I am working.
CHILD: Dada, mummy needs you.
HUGH: Why?
CHILD: (something inaudible about ice lollies)
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2016
HUGH: I'll get them in a few minutes, let me finish working. Yeah? You can wait on the
ice lollies
[31:56]
Excuse me. And she prepared this class for this German teenage class, and she was really
struggling with them; and at the end I kind of grabbed one of the bored looking young
German teachers-students at the end and said, you look bored, you didn't enjoy the topic?
The topic was the environment. And she sort of went, look, it's not because I'm not
interested in the environment, right? But we talked about it in civil responsibilities class,
weve done it In politics, weve done it in a religion class, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said
well, what would you rather talk about, what would be a good topic for you? And she said,
this is an English class, right? Why don't we talk about English? And I think actually, what
this means is, it's a really good thing to get students to look, at to think about, and to talk
about the language a bit more,ok? And that this can be one way of getting round the
problem of having nothing to talk about. And I think the teachers books have a
responsibility to help you do this. I think teachers books should kinda help teachers to
exploit and to explain language, and they should really encourage teachers to get better at
asking better questions about language.
[33:04]
If any of you know the website that I run, lexical lab, I'll just type up the address there.
Recently we've been posting quite a lot about questions that you can ask, and I think
questions are really important in the classroom, and some questions are better than others.
And you know, say you're teaching phrasal verbs and you've got something like fall out.
Joe and I used to be really good friends but we fell out a few years ago. For me, when
you're checking this, you need to do more than just check the answers, you need to explore
it a little bit, you need to ask you know, so number six, that's right fell out. What happens
when friends fall out? Yeah, they have a big argument, they stop talking. What kind of
things to people usually fall out about? Yeah, it could be money, could be girls; and if you
fall out about money, why, what happens? If you fall out about a girl, why, what happens?
What do you then need to do if you want to become friends with someone again? And as
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2016
you're asking these kind of questions, you're exploring the language around the language
that you're teaching. You're getting at the co-text, you're using the students to get to that
kind of connected language, and you're showing them the web of language that connects to
the words you're teaching. And I think, you know, teachers books and course books needs
to include more of this kind of thing. Um, we're actually just working on second edition of
Outcomes at the moment. The course books I've been writing with Andrew Walkley, and
we've started including a lot more of these questions just directly in the course book, as
opposed to in the teacher's book, because I think they know they're useful and they're
important and theyre a different kind of talk.
[34:35]
The final things I think you can do is, I think, one of the problems that often happens with
students is, speaking becomes very difficult. A lot of the time English language material
makes speaking veer between grammatical accuracy and freeform fluency. You get a lot of
mashed topics, you get, you know, discuss which ones better, pizzas or Paris; discuss the
pros and cons of wings, tell a ghost story, talk about crop circles. I think actually English is
much better, and monolingual classes work much better, if you start by teaching typical
conversations that try to ensure that students learn how to have the same kind of
conversations in English as they have in their first language. And, you know, you're kind of
youre valuing stories, you're valuing anecdotes, as things to hook the language onto,
youre encouraging students to personalise the lexis. If you're teaching phrasal verbs like
fall out, you get them to talk about anyone they know that have fallen out with anybody.
You get them to, you know, use the lexis that you're giving them to word their own worlds.
[35:44]
Finally and this is the talk onto itself really, I really think course books and classrooms
need to accept the inevitability and uses of translation a lot more. Interestingly, I think,
translations really only a problem when you apply it to a misrepresentation of language.
The two areas of language that are most resistant to translation are grammar, ok? Grammar
doesn't work by translating it from one language to another. If I translate, Im going there
tomorrow, I'll go there tomorrow, I'm going to go there tomorrow, into Indonesian, it comes
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2016
out as one sentence (sentence in Indonesian), ok? It doesn't help me understand the
difference between the English. The other problem with translation is single words. If I ask
you what the translation for rough is in your language, it obviously depends. A rough
guess, you might have one expression. The sea was very rough, you might have another
expression. I feel a bit rough, you might have another expression. And youve got really
rough skin, there you might have another expression. Actually, the only time translation
really works is when you accept that language is lexical, and you're translating whole
phrases, whole chunks, grammaticalised little bits of language. I think translation is really,
really important, ok? But I think it needs- and it's a great advantage nonnatives have
because, you know, unless you're a very very fluent in the local language native speaker,
non-natives can do this intuitively. Translation can be a really useful aid-memoire,
particularly when you're translating into first language, and then translating back into
English later,ok?
[37:32]
I'm going to stop, Im two minutes over five o'clock. And I'm going to be around just for a
few more minutes, if anyones got any questions, if you want to type things in. Theres my
email, there's our Web site, theres our Facebook page, where we often have discussions
about these things.I'm very curious about who the Spencer Davis Group is. Youre afraid to
disappear, but if any of you have got any questions you want to ask or anything. Please do,
what things youre still worried about. Extra fears I haven't thought of.
[38:12]
MAREK: Sorry. I'll jump in as well, Hugh, just to- just to thank- thank you a lot for doing
the webinar. And if you're interested in learning more about teaching lexis and non-native
speakers, um, Higor Cavalcante from Brazil is uh is going to give a webinar on a similar
topic in two months, on the 19th of July. And it's going to be um- the title is Can we talk
about our English? The importance of language development for teachers; so I think it's
very very closely related to Hughs webinar here. So I hope to see at least some of you
there. It's going to be on July 19th, um, and you will be able to find more information on the
TEFL equity website, and I'll paste the link for you here. And therell be more information
25
2016
about Higor's webinar later on. And also this webinar has been recorded, so the recording
will be up on YouTube and TEFL Equity, um, in a week maybe. So uh, youll be able to
come back to it, and watch it, and share it with your friends who might have missed this
webinar.
[39:37]
HUGH: Hopefully youre going to edit out all the bits of me swearing at the beginning
about the technology. Crash course in swearing!
MAREK: But- but it was a great webinar, Hugh. I thought it was really, really interesting.
HUGH: Thank you. You havent got any questions? Desperate to get back to your
weekends.
MAREK: Yes, Maria, the recording will be available for free on line. And thanks again to
James Taylor and BELTA. And we'll make it available maybe in about a week.
MAREK: Right, Hugh, you haven't been swearing in German, at all.
HUGH: Swearing in German, I can.
MAREK: But you haven't.
HUGH: Not recently. MAREK: I mean in this webinar.
HUGH: No, I haven't, I havent. Almost the only German I can speak is swearing, thinking
about it, which is quite disturbing. Higors doing the right thing now, Off for lunch with his
mum.
MAREK: That's that's a very interesting thing as well because it seems that, in Poland, the
mother's day and the Father's Day they're on completely different dates to the rest of the
world. And I'm always confused when I'm abroad because I- I can never remember it isn't
when the dates in Poland.
HUGH: Yeah, I dont do any of that stuff. My parents know I love them. But we don't need
an official day to do all this.
MAREK: That's true.
HUGH: All right, it's looking like no questions. It's an easy audience, preaching to the
converted.
[41:40]
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2016
MAREK: But I've got a question, I've got a question, Hugh.

HUGH: Tell me Marek.
MAREK: What would you, I mean, sometimes, or often actually, when, you know, as a
non-native speaker you can't explain a word because maybe you just don't know it, or you
just don't know how to explain it.
HUGH:Yeah.
MAREK: And your students kind of go, you can see in the faces, they're kind of saying, oh
you don't know it because you are not a native speaker.
HUGH: Yeah.
MAREK: If my teacher was from England he would know this expression. HUGH: Yeah.
MAREK: How would you-
[42:09]
HUGH: So, there's two things. I think the first thing is, you know, thats bollocks, basically.
You know that just because someone's a native speaker does not necessarily mean they
know any more than you do. I think the second thing is, it's just the importance of planning,
ok? And it's exactly the same if youre native or non-native. The more you can plan in
advance how you're going to deal with the language that comes up, the easier it's going to
be for you in the classroom, I think. And you know I still do this. My planning is much
much much more focused on the language I'm going to teach these days. So, I'll look at the
pages of material I'm going to take in, Ill think about what possible questions I might get
asked, Ill look at the language I'm going to be teaching, I'll think oh Im not sure about that
word there, how's that different from this word, Ill look them up, Ill get examples ready
and I'll try and be as prepared as I can on the language front, so that we- I just don't get put
in that kind of situation. Um, it may still sometimes happen where you get caught out, I get
caught out. And I think in those situations all you can do is just to kind of go, ah, you
know, I know you thought I knew everything. But even I don't know everything. Only the
Buddha is perfect, you know. I'll do my homework and I'll look it up and I'll come back and
tell you next week. And, you know I do that almost weekly. I'm sure most of you do too.
And you know maybe your students are delusional not to believe that people like me
27
2016
wouldn't do that or shouldn't do that. But you know they're wrong. And you know, as Higor
said very early on, it's just a teaching thing, thats just to do with teaching. And I just think
it's making your preparation as language focused as you can, and being as prepared as you
possibly can be. And when you get caught out you do what everyone else does which is to
go away and learn from your mistakes, and next time you get asked that question you're
better off.
[44:07]
MAREK: No, I, I totally agree. I think and I think students also, after a couple of classes,
they shouldve warmed up to you as a non-native speaker, they don't see it any more as a,
that you don't know the word, they dont see it anymore as your fault because youre a non-
native-
HUGH: Oh, very much I mean I think-
MAREK: Ive been in a situation like this once and uh, when I was teaching in Budapest
and uh, they asked, I can't remember what the word was, but I just said I really don't know,
I have no clue what it means. And I said I'll go and look in a dictionary. And then all of a
sudden, a native speaker colleague pops into the classroom. So, you know, the attention
turns to him. And one of the students asked him oh so surely you'll know what this word
means, because Marek doesn't know. Funnily enough he didnt. He was just like I don't
have a clue, sorry I, don't know.
[45:03]
HUGH: Yeah. I got a question from Sergey here.
<Chat box: Sergey Skvortsov (Russia): Most chunks which can be found in the Outcomes
series are meant to be used in dialogues (be it natives or other non-natives). The majority of
students dont have the opportunity to go to a pub after the lessons and trying them out
because they dont live in an English speaking environment. So they dont seem very into
learning or practicing them in the classroom. Is there a solution to this problem?>
Hey, Sergey. Yeah. I mean most chunks which are found in the Outcome series are meant
to be used in dialogues. Yes, they are, not necessarily in the pub, but in spoken language, or
in written language. And you know if students don't live in English speaking environments,
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2016
how do they practice them? Is there a solution? I mean either way I think when youre
teaching, youre not only teaching for the present moment, ok? You're teaching for the lives
yet to come for the students, and you have to teach language on the assumption that at some
point the language will be useful for them, even if it's not yet. And sometimes part of that is
selling to the students the idea that, you know, maybe now you think you don't need this,
but at some point in the future you will.
[45:59]
I noticed see I was in Poland a couple of years ago in d for a conference, and I stopped
two young lads in the street and said, Sorry do you speak English? Theyre like 13 14. And
you could see them kind of go, oh shit, shit, this is the moment the teacher said's going to
happen, one day we're going to speak to a native speaker. And they sort of suddenly sort of,
you know, lived up to the experience, and suddenly said well, yes we do, how can we help
you? And it was great, because it was obviously them kind of getting to use some of the
stuff that theyre learning in the classroom. And I think that's what you have to do. You
know, you have to basically say, ok, you may not be using this English yet, you may not
have a chance to practice yet. But you know you still need to learn English which will be
useful at some point in your life, because sooner or later, you will be using English, you
know; and selling some kind of vision of their future selves to them, in which this stuff will
be useful. And if it's language which is similar to what they do with the first language, you
know, if it's kind of at least resembling the kind of conversations they already have, at least
it feels natural it feels sort of normal. You have to in some way turn the classroom into the
kind of practice space or the practice arena, you have to recycle that language a lot, you
have to revise it a lot, you have to kind of encourage them to perform it in the classroom a
lot; and you have to accept that you know they won't use all of it. Some of them may never
use any of it. You know they just might not. In the same way that some of us who did
geography or physics in high school don't use any of what we did. I mean I did eight years
of physics, and I can't remember any of it and I haven't used any of it. I don't think it made
me more stupid having learned it, though.
[47:44]
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2016
Sergeis still typing. And then in a few minutes I shall disappear and go and find lollies for
my kids Anyone else who does have questions afterwards, by the way, if something pops
up in your head, please feel free to email me. Sergeis still typing. The suspense. And
Ayleens typing. Type faster! OK. Sergey. Oh, go, get the lollies. So one-finger typists
over there in Russia. Go on, Ill just wait to see what Ayleens typing. Ayleen. In some
extent most of the language can be chunks what size should the chunk be? Yeah, I mean, I
dont have a fixed answer to that Ayleen, I guess, U:m. I think, yeah in a way, you think the
first lesson you ever teach absolute beginner students where you teach a whole sentence,
you teach what's your name ok, so you got four words in there. I think we need to be
thinking about things like that, we need to be teaching whole sentences, we need to be
teaching groups of words together, we need to be giving students a lot of repeated exposure
to those kinds of things. At the same time, obviously, you know, students do need to learn
single words. In a way I guess they need to learn the most frequent single words, and then
they need to learn what those words do. So if theyre intermediate they may need to learn a
word like point, ok? They need to understand the basic idea of that, and then they might
need to learn things like, get to the point, sorry I don't get your point, um, what's your point,
there's no point. Um, you know they need to learn all those little kinds of things, but not
just those; theyll need to learn what's the context in which you might say those kinds of
things, what's the equivalent in the first language, some of which may use the translation
for the word point, some of them may not. So the only way I can really answer Ayleen's
question is to say well, that's what I've tried to do in the course books Ive written is to
define some of those things and to show. But I don't think it's helpful to have a fixed size or
fixed border for things, I think, it depends on the language you know, it may be, some
student you need to learn things like, how long have you been doing that, ok? Which is
what. How- long-have-you-been-doing-that. It's a seven word chunk, ok? But you need to
learn that as one big sentence. At the same time you might learn gotta go, ok? Which Ive
just seen pop up there. Gotta go is a two word chunk, ok? So, it depends. Thanks for
attending. You're welcome. All those kinds of things. Some chunks are just a bit longer
than others. Depends on what you're trying to say, but you need to learn the most common
ways of trying to say a range of different things that you're going to want to say.
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2016
[51:17]
OK everyone I'm going to disappear off, because my kids demand lollies and it is still
sunny outside. So thank you very, very much, Marek, for hosting me and thank you very
much to everyone for being here. Yeah.
[51:33]
MAREK: Thank you for the webinar, Hugh. It was really interesting.
HUGH: Hey, thank you, I wish I could stay longer and chat to everyone, and I'm sorry for
all the messing around with the technology at the beginning.
MAREK: No worries. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
HUGH: Thank you. You take care, you guys yeah
MAREK: All right. Take out
HUGH: See ya.
31

Analysis of A Webinar: "Lexis, Speaking, and The Non-Native Speaker Teacher"

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Analysis of A Webinar: "Lexis, Speaking, and The Non-Native Speaker Teacher"

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Diccin Inglesa I Orgeira, C.

To begin with, following Bensons characterization of a lecture as a performance, it can be

Besides, as a single-standing event, this webinar is not organised in relation to other

A Systemic Functional Description

A Structural Analysis: Phasal Description

[08:48] So, the first thing Ive often heard

[28:18] So just a quick summary.

[12:08] So obviously some language is culturally rooted.

Evaluation phases are used by lecturers to express, as Young explains, judgement on

Benson, M. (1994), Lecture listening in an ethnographic perspective. In J. Flowerdew

Young, L. (1994), University lectures macro-structure and micro-features. In J.

Speaker: Hugh Dellar

Published on 20 May 2015 (YouTube Channel: TEFL Equity Advocates)

MAREK: But I've got a question, I've got a question, Hugh.

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