You are on page 1of 4

2/14/2011 Impulse line sizing

from the Please settle the issue.. department...


Impulse line sizing
Posted by Rich Miller on 23 August, 2010 - 9:26 am
We are having a debate at work about the impact of different diameter impulse lines on sensor response speed and
accuracy: if a sensor were to be installed with 1" pipe instead of 1/2", how would this change the performance of the
sensor?

The claim is that smaller lines offer better performance but I have yet to hear a good argument as to why this should
be so.

I am asking if anyone can tell me what are the effects, is there an "ideal" size for an application, and what criteria
would influence this sizing (i.e. media, temperature, compressible vs non-compressible)?

Posted by S am on 24 August, 2010 - 5:23 am


Hi there,

The reason why we sometimes use different size instrumentation tubing has nothing to do with accuracy or
response times.

Most transmitters/instruments have standardized on 1/2" ports, so it is useless to install 1" tubing and still have a 1/2"
bottleneck at the transmitter so that is one of the reasons why we just use 1/2" tubing in most applications.

You might find some applications with 1/4" tubing but that will only be on very clean water or gas applications or
also due to a 1/4" port size of the instruments. No point to install 1/2" tubing in applications with 1/4" instrument ports
either.

If 1/4" tubing have been installed on a normal 1/2" application, it is not exactly the right way but it will be fine if
there is no possibility of blockage, but you always should install the biggest size tubing the ports of the instruments
will allow you, not to increase response or accuracy but to prevent the possibility of blockage in the lines.

In valve applications we sometimes increase the tubing size to increase the speed of the valve but that is to get a
higher volume of air through quicker, and is not a pressure transfer function so this is not the same thing as your
question since this is air flow.

The time it will take for a change in pressure to be transferred through the liquid or gas to the transmitter sensor
varies, and basically depends on the ratio of wave speed, due to the viscosity and density, and distance from the
tapping point to the transmitter.
The actual pressure in the line have no effect on the transfer function and will be the same in a high pressure as
well as in a vacuum application. The size of the tubing or pipe also have no effect. This is true for a gas as well.

In instrumentation the only place there is a bit of a longer delay is in capillary applications, also again due to the long
lengths and also the extra diaphragm on the chemical seal. When you work in a sugar mill you will also be able to
see a time delay, this time due to high viscosity.

In a normal water, oil or gas application the tubing have to be really very long before you will see any time delay. I
would estimate from about 20 meter or longer you will start to see a small delay. Below that there is obviously also
a delay but it is in milliseconds and are seen as instantaneous with the naked eye.

www.control.com/thread/1282569975 1/4
2/14/2011 Impulse line sizing
Posted by David on 24 August, 2010 - 8:57 pm
1) Both ISO2186:1983 and ISO2186:2004 were referenced for the study
"Best Practice Guide: Impulse Lines for Differential Pressure Flowmeters"

The table on page 5 gives pipe/tubing diameters for various run lengths and for a variety of media, including "very
dirty fluids".

http://www.idc-online.com/technical_references/pdfs/instrumentation
/Differential%20pressure%20meters_nel.pdf

(eliminate any spaces the forum inserts into the URL above)or use this tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/2colxrg

2) ISA-77.70-1994 (R2005) Fossil Fuel Power Plant Instrument Piping Installation

The design of instrument sensing and sampling lines in a power plant is covered by ANSI B31.1, "Power Piping,"
latest version with addenda.

4.1.1 Process tap connections


All of the material between the root valve(s), including the root valve(s) and process connection, shall be the same
material as the process pipe or vessel or shall be a material compatible with the process fluid, pressure,
temperature, and connection methods.

The connection shall be a minimum of inch (12.7 mm)nominal pipe size for service conditions when pressures
are 900 psig (6.21 MPa) or less, and temperatures are 800F (426.67C) or less. The minimum size shall be
inch (19.05 mm) for conditions that exceed either of those limits.

Posted by Roy Matson on 25 August, 2010 - 5:02 am


Sam,

That's very interesting & though provoking. Do you think 1/4 inch tubing would have a speed of response
advantage in the case of an orifice plate or pitot tube on gas flow. i.e. less volume has to flow through the small
orifices with changes in pressure.

In the case of a pitot tube the HP connection often has much smaller ports than the LP connection, I wonder how
this effects the reading with sudden flow (pressure) changes.

The main advantage I see in using larger more rigid tubing, it's easier to support.

Regards
Roy

Posted by S am on 25 August, 2010 - 11:30 am


To last Roy post,

There is a difference between pressure transfer capability and flow through a tubing or pipe. I have already
given an example where we increase the tubing size on a valve to increase the volume of air flow per second.

To understand the transfer function look at a sealed capillary transmitter with say 10meter capillary lines. There
is no flow from the chemical seal to the transmitter it's all a sealed unit but the pressure change at the chemical
www.control.com/thread/1282569975 2/4
2/14/2011 Impulse line sizing
seal diaphragm is immediately transferred to the sensor at the transmitter. Why is that?
If you press on the diaphragm with your finger you are essentially reducing the occupied space of the contained
liquid inside the capillary line and therefore the pressure inside the capillary increases and that increase in
pressure in seen by the transmitter sensor. The same thing happens in a piped installation since all the space is
occupied by the process liquid or gas and can also bee seen as a sealed system. Any increase in pressure in this
sealed system will immediately be transferred everywhere including to the sensor of the transmitter.

There is no better way to explain pressure transfer than that, so think about it and make the distinction between
pressure transfer in a line and flow volume through a line.

To the last David post,

I would also like to respond to David's response in that yes we, do need to look at the rating of the tubing for a
application since you get various wall thickness tubing with different ratings. Selecting the right size, material and
rating is only for safety purposes of the installation, not response or accuracy purposes.

Posted by Roy Matson on 26 August, 2010 - 7:17 pm


>To last Sam post,

I think you misinterpreted my question or i didn't explain it properly (more likely)

In a gas flow meter if the transmitter is remote from the measuring element a sudden change in flow will give
a sudden change in DP this pressure change will take a while to reach the transmitter because it has to flow to
compress the gas to the new pressure.

In this case I would expect the transfer to take place more quickly in a small diameter tube than a large
diameter tube because the flow is restricted by the small diameter orifice in the flow element e.g. the HP
opening of an Annubar is only about 1mm in size.

I agree with your capillary example.

Posted by S teve Myres on 27 August, 2010 - 11:57 am


When running tubing from a four-way valve to an air cylinder in automation, you pass a sweet spot in tubing
size beyond which increases in size slow cylinder reaction. Above the sweet spot, the additional volume
required to charge the tube itself hurt you more than the reduced restriction helps you.

I believe you said you're sensing flow in a gas. This effect would be very minimal in a non-compressible
liquid, as the lines are already full in this type application, and the system wouldn't suffer from the increased
volume.

Posted by S am on 29 August, 2010 - 4:30 am


To the last Roy post,

In my first post I have already mentioned that it is useless to install a 1" line if the tapping size or the
transmitter port size is 1/2". In your Annubar you ideally would want to go for a 1mm line which is obviously
not available and impractical so we normally use the smallest lines available, 1/4"(6mm). Since Pitot tubes
and Annubars are only suitable for use on very clean liquid or gas there are no blockage concerns.
www.control.com/thread/1282569975 3/4
2/14/2011 Impulse line sizing

We should not start splitting hairs on this issue since there are a lot of other factors that comes into play in
the total response time of a loop. This is only one of them, and keep in mind we are still talking in terms of
millisecond responses here. You will only see actual delays with the naked eye when you work with very
long impulse lines (20meter+)which is obviously another factor of consideration during a installation. The
impulse lines are always kept as short as possible to increase response times, except in steam application
where we keep them quite long to assist in cooling down the liquid before the transmitter. Some people
prefer to use catch pots in steam applications but I have my own views on that.

Your use of this site is subject to the terms and conditions set forth under Legal Notices and the Privacy Policy.
Please read those terms and conditions carefully. Subject to the rights expressly reserved to others under Legal
Notices, the content of this site and the compilation thereof is 1999-2011 Nerds in Control, LLC. All rights reserved.

Users of this site are benefiting from open source technologies, including PHP, MySQL and Apache. Be happy.

Fortune
First Corollary of Taber's Second Law:
Machines that piss people off get murdered.
-- Pat Taber

www.control.com/thread/1282569975 4/4

You might also like