00:00 It's recording.

00:02 Ask me if I can ask you Do you give consent to recording this interview.

00:09 I William Moyers give consent for this interview to be recorded and used in an
academic setting for Nancy Moyer's OK.

00:22 I'm here with William Moyers The vice president of Public Affairs community
relations for his very first foundation. How are you doing today. I'm good Nancy.
How are you. Pretty good. Thank you. Good morning. So what does a typical
work day look like for you. You know one of the top drug and alcohol addiction
treatment in the United States.

00:42 Well that's a good question and to answer that I have to first say that I don't
exactly have a typical job at this world renowned Hazel and Betty Ford
Foundation in fact I'm probably one of a kind because I wear many hats. I don't
work on the clinical side of our operation and I'm always very clear with people
that I'm not a clinician I'm not a doctor I'm not a social worker I don't have my
master's in anything. So even though I worked for this famous place part of the
thing that's unusual about my job is that I don't work on the clinical side
although I hope a lot of people get to where they need clinically. Nevertheless
I'm not a clinician so I have an unusual job and that I'm sort of an outside guy in
the organization. I've been a face and a voice for Heysel and now Hazel and
Betty Ford for 23 years now I started working there in 1996.

01:40 And for me a typical day in this a typical job is that I always first thing first check
my email my voicemail my Facebook messages and other forms of
communication every morning to see who might be reaching out asking for
help. I get many many requests for help every day every week every year. And
that's because I'm very public about my situation so I always check first things
first in the morning to see who might be needing help who's come to me or also
to follow up on cases that I've sent you to have one or to other treatment
centers.

02:21 So that's how my date typically starts. I also scan the news to see what is
happening in the real world that might be related to the issues that we deal
with in addiction treatment and recovery.

02:35 I do that very early on and I also check my email from those non urgent
communications and vallies colleagues of mine other staff and other
professionals in the field. Lastly I always very early on in the morning just like I
do before I go to bed at night I always check my calendar to see what's
happening in the day ahead because in this day and age there's a lot of things
happening that change. And so because I travel so much of my job and because I
don't have a routine job because my hours are very different. My calendar is not
typical either. So that's how I. Start my day during the course of my day. I focus
on the responsibilities I have. I am a public advocate for the organization so I'm
 always making speeches and doing the interviews as I said I hope a lot of people
get help. So I'm always involved in that. I also spend 20 percent of my time
fundraising for Hazel and Betty Ford.

03:43 And so I'm always talking to my staff and philanthropy or you know planning
visits with donors or following up with what donors might need. One of the
things I'd do in my unusual day is I deal with a lot of our quote constituents my
patients their families alarm's donors board members customers. So I feel a lot
of queries from people who are doing business with or wanting to do business
with Hazle that spend a lot of my time so you might look at my calendar and say
oh we've got nothing calendar today but my days are always filled with fielding
those requests from people for something.

04:30 So that's how my my day is typically. Also lastly I am very conscious of the fact
that as you noted I work for one of the top drug and alcohol addiction
treatment programs in the United States and in that role you have to be really
responsible. You have to be responsive to people.

04:48 You have to be professional.

04:50 You have to always be aware of the fact that as a representative of this
organization how people see you how they hear you might in fact bomb the
organization. So I'm always being very careful to be a good ambassador in my
day to day work for Hazle.

05:06 How do you people know to reach out to you when asking for help and not
directly to Hazleton.

05:11 Well I'm a very public advocate as I've noted so I'm always giving speeches or
doing media interviews or writing books or posting speeches on the Internet.
And I'm a very publicly identifiable are all looking at it in recovery and also
because I'm not famous That means I'm accessible. I you know I live in St. Paul
and I'm in a house you can find. So I that's how people get to me. And also I
mean I've been doing this for 23 years so I've got a reputation that's most good i
hope. But I also work for an organization that's reputable Hazelden Betty Ford
Foundation. You can't find a brand that's much stronger than that. And so the
point is is that people either find me through hastily or find Heysel and through
me. And that's a really important. With social media. Oh my goodness.

06:11 With social media being what it is today. You know we're all easy to find out all
he did talk to and interestingly enough I get a growing number of queries or
requests for help through social media particularly my Facebook pages.

06:29 What you find was enjoyable for. Well things. This

06:34 is a really good question and a really easy one to answer although I could talk
about it for an hour. The two things I find most enjoyable one I love raising
 money for the organization rate raising money is both an art and a science and I
have the art down pretty good. I'm very good with Eleanor's Fostex and I love to
raise money because when I raise a dollar or$500 or a million dollars that
money goes to the mission of the organization and the mission is what to treat
addiction and transform lives. You might by the way want to look up and see
what Hazel Betty Ford's mission is because mine days my weeks. My job is
defined by advancing that mission. So make sure you check on the mission of
Heysel before you can find on the Web site. So I love the race Miles. It's fun
raising money. And of course the other 30 percent of the enjoyment I get in the
job is in helping people.

07:37 I mean it helps lots and lots people I don't even know how many people I help I
find that out sometimes I'll say Oh I read your book or heard my mother heard
you make a speech or I saw you on Minnesota Public Radio and and you helped
me.

07:52 So I love helping people. And what I've discovered over all these years is that
when I help other people I end up helping myself and that's probably been the
most important experience that I've had in 23 years professionally and
personally what I help myself.

08:13 What are your thoughts on chemical use in society not specifically chemical
abuse.

08:19 Well you know there's nothing wrong with responsible drinking. And in states
where for example marijuana is legal there's nothing wrong with responsible
use of marijuana in the sense that.

08:33 Marijuana is like you know alcohol and that can make you feel good or ease
your concerns or enhance a social experience. And so I understand why people
drink beer or enjoy wine or even understand in states where it's legal like I said
why people smoke marijuana. I understand that. I'm not a prohibitionist. I'm

09:00 not you know an anti alcohol advocate. I can't do that. But I understand why
people do. However also I must say that you know alcohol consumption is
ubiquitous in this country and there are a lot of problems with it whether it's
drunk driving or health health issues or breaking the law. I mean the dangerous
use of a dangerous substance results in dangerous problems. And so it's sad to
me to see how pervasive alcohol use is in this country and of course it's sad for
me to see how many of us in society depend on a substance legal or otherwise
to either mitigate our circumstances or enhance them.

09:59 So I'm not a teetotaler. I'm not in that order. I'm not intolerant of moderate
prohibitions like I said on the other hand I recognize the impact that legal and
illegal substances can have on people and families and communities and I'm
always striving to help people overcome their problems with alcohol or other
drugs.
10:23 What do you think should be done on college campuses straight teens since
there is such a fine line between a normal drinking and street game specifically
college students because it's hard to find.

10:42 It's hard to see the difference between a normal college student and one that
binge drinking. Well what do you think.

10:52 Well I think the step up program on campus is a good way to connect sober
called students and students that might have an issue with drinking but it's hard
to find.

11:08 It's hard to see the difference in 20 year olds now and then a few years see who
is continuing on with that.

11:15 And there is definitely a problem.

11:18 On-Call huge college campuses. And your husband and that's the irony of it. You
know what. I was in college.

11:25 I was in college in 1977 to 81. I was a freshman in September of 77 and I just
turned 18 in May.

11:34 So alcohol use was legal in my time. Oh my goodness. There's no doubt in my

mind that from the day I got to college until the day I graduated that it was the
college social experience that aggravated my addiction.

11:54 I became alcoholic in terms of my use probably in my sophomore year and part
of that process that unfolded was as a result of the fact that alcohol was legal at
the age of 18 and I drank it all the time not not just because I had an alcohol
tendency but because it's what we did at football games or basketball games or
you know formal dances or at fraternity parties there there's a story by the way
in today's New York Times it said that a lot of colleges are now considering
getting rid of a quote Greek system posed on the fraternities and sororities
because the Greek system and fosters such a pervasive culture of excessive
alcohol consumption. I think it's tragic that so many college students find
opportunity or need to consume alcohol in college. Know the reality is is that
with the drinking age being 21 it's illegal to use alcohol if you're a freshman or
sophomore or junior.

13:05 And just because alcohol consumption was legal in my age in my time doesn't
mean that it should be you know tolerated for under age being under the age of
21 today it shouldn't be tolerated because it's legal. It's it's really tragic and I will
tell you one of my big regrets in life is that I wasted so much of my college
experience I wasted it being wasted. And you know none of us can go back and
do over again those mistakes we make in life. But if I can do it over again in the
first place I would do it over would be those years between 77 and 81 when I
 probably was under the influence. Five out of every seven days. It doesn't mean
I was you know drunk or stoned out of my mind.

13:57 But I was probably under the influence or under the post influence five or seven
days. And kind of college student can you be when you're struggling with a
hangover or spending time trying to get alcohol or trying to remember what you
did last night. I

14:20 I I thought it was normal but it was not normal looking back on it. Hindsight is
always 20 20. But I wish I had been not sober at least I wish I had been more
responsible in my use. I was in college.

14:35 Do you think it's a rite of passage to adulthood to drink alcohol because let's talk
about a lot in my classes where you know that is the one thing that
differentiates Oh you're you know it's a child like you can't make your own
decisions and then you start drinking and then you're you know finally in Dalton
you're doing all stuff and you know in other countries the drinking age is 16 or
18.

15:04 And do you think that it is it society it differentiates children from Rudolph and
drinky and it helps that helps the process.

15:21 Well it certainly seems like a rite of passage. I mean it's it's it's weird in this
country that you can serve in the military age of 18 you can vote 18 you get a
driver's license but you can't drink on the other hand.

15:39 Why is it that so many young people today drinking for the same reason that
they drank in my day or 100 years ago. It always seems like a quote rite of
passage quote unquote in the sense that alcohol is.

16:00 A really significant influence in young people becoming of age. I think in part
because young people are maturing and they're finding themselves in their
brains are weighing Riskin And you know pondering pondering those things that
oftentimes lead people to drink.

16:26 Yeah I guess it does seem like a rite of passage you shouldn't have to be but it's
true.

16:32 It does. It is part of the culture of being a young person today whether you're on
a college campus or whether you're you know just young.

16:42 What are your thoughts on the opioid epidemic. What do you think society and
what are the strengths and weaknesses. Is the size you need to address.

16:53 Well the opioid epidemic is that is truly an epidemic. The Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention in Atlanta. They don't oftentimes to clear something an
epidemic. About a year and a half ago they declared opioids an epidemic and it
 truly is. There are people dying in record numbers in this country from use and
misuse of prescription medications like pain meds. And you know of course the
legal ones like heroin. There. It's a tragedy. It's a tragedy. And I think the nation
is falling. Woken up to exactly how threatening opioids are to all of us. And
there's no silver lining in an epidemic is killing people like this but there is a
sliver of opportunity in this epidemic and that's that I think that for the first time
in our nation's history we have recognized that addiction does not discriminate
and that neither should recovery from it and that the war on drugs that we've
been fighting in this country for centuries has failed and that one reason it's
failed is because it's never seen addiction as the public health problem that
addiction is in the past.

18:14 We've tried to legislate our way out of addiction trying to arrest our way out of
our addiction and we tried to you know do toughen interdiction in Colombia
and in El Salvador and in Mexico by spraying poppy fields or burning marijuana
crops.

18:31 And that doesn't work either. You know that's the approach that if you get rid of
the supply you get rid of the demand doesn't work. The only way to the best
way to reduce the supply of any drug is to reduce the demand for it in the best
way to reduce the demand is to treat people who are demanding it.

18:51 So the opioid epidemic has I think woken up. Democrats and Republicans red
states and blue states people of all colors it's woken us all up to the reality that
we as a nation have to approach drug use differently than we ever have. And
the best way to approach it is as a public health problem in the same way we
would approach cancer or HIV AIDS or depression. Those are all be health
issues. And the reason why we've made such great strides in treating HIV AIDS
or depression other mental illnesses because we have recognized that.

19:31 That that's everybody's problem and that we can't find our way out of it if we
don't treat our way out of it.

19:40 So I think you're great epidemic is a true tragedy it's one that was fostered by
the by ignorant doctors ignorant pharmacists and a very persuasive
pharmaceutical industry that tried and succeeded in convincing doctors and
nurses and assist patients convincing all of us that the best way to treat pain is
by taking a pill and you know there's nothing wrong with treating pain with
medication. But if you're going to use the date of medication to treat that pain
then you have to put into place safeguards to protect the consumer of that pain
medication and to also help them manage their pain whether it's pain from. You
know cancer treatment or whether it's dental pain. Pain is pain. Nobody enjoys
it. But we have to come up with alternatives to how we saw a quick fix and a
little simple pill.

20:50 Doing drugs in the United States should be decriminalize because I've heard
that. And other countries I think Portugal decriminalized all right drugs and their
rates of drug addicts has gone down or maybe deaths.
21:08 You need to check that out. Look here is I don't think there's a simple answer to
that. To the issue of we we we we banned alcohol in this country between 19 19
and 19. Thirty three. And you know what. For a little while and we banned
alcohol.

21:28 The problems caused by it went down for a bit. But by the time prohibition
ended in 1933 those problems were back at the levels they've been before. So
look look look at look at what happened with the use of pain medication in this
country that's a legal drug.

21:45 And look how it took over and has caused this epidemic we were just talking
about. Why would we want to legalize other drugs if we can get our arms
around the legal use of alcohol or the legal use of pain medication. Yeah. I you
know I believe that a drug is a drug is a drug and that drugs are dangerous
particularly to people who are vulnerable like I am. On the other hand there's
no question that this war on drugs has failed and has led us to punish
disproportionately people of other colors than me. So that's why 80 percent of
the people in prison today are there because of an alcohol drug issue and the
majority of them are white black or brown or red. And and so this is the war on
drugs is not something that that. Has worked. And we need to decriminalize
substances while at the same time enhancing people who possess those
substances to get help.

22:56 Is a problem. So I'm not in favor of the legalization of any more substances
because of what's happened with opioids. Look what's happened with alcohol.
On the other hand the war on drugs has failed. We do need a new approach.
We can't punish our way out of it. And and so I don't think you throw the baby
out with the bathwater. I think we have to stop. It. I think you have to take a
sensible approach to a public health problem.

23:27 Yes.

23:30 And what is your own personal experience with chemically youth during the
addiction recovery.

23:39 Well you know because they come on I started using willfully at the age of 15
marijuana and I very quickly found the answer to what ailed me and what ailed
me was this whole in this whole part about the hole in the soul that that for me
that was that sense that I wasn't good enough why I needed to be better than
when I smoked marijuana for the first time in 15 I found the answer to being
imperfect enough to try so hard to be perfect. But you know I have a vulnerable
brain.

24:12 I'm wired differently and that doesn't absolve you of responsibility but it helps
to explain why I could smoke marijuana the age of 15 and 15 years later be
living in a crack house unable to stop my use of crack cocaine malt liquor and so
you know I'm that I'm an alcoholic and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
24:37 What I've learned over the decades is I wouldn't frankly I wouldn't trade for
anything because here I am a person who's OK in his own skin. I'm

24:48 a person who works in the field of addiction treatment and recovery. I help
people I get value from that I get a sense of belonging I get I get a sense of
purpose and purpose in my life.

25:00 Sometimes I wish I could be a quote Normy you know but I'm not and there's
nothing I can do about it.

25:09 So you know I'm not proud of the fact that I I'm in that I did things under the
influence that hurt other people and hurt myself and wasted a lot of money.

25:22 Not proud of that.

25:25 And I wish it hadn't been true that I became an addict. Now all on the other
hand as I said I know from adversity comes opportunity and both of the
opportunities that come my way that had been good for me have been a result
of my overcoming addiction and trying to live a better life as a person of
recovery as long as I am. You know when I I know now that when I die that my
obituary will reflect the fact that I help other people I help thousands of other
people and wow what a gift.

26:04 So sometimes I'll be at a baseball game or at a party and people be drinking

wine that smells good or I remember being in a Mexican restaurant not long ago
and watching people drink margarita on the rocks which I always loved. And

26:19 I said oh I didn't crave it but you know I kind of wish there for a moment that
you know I could I could drink responsibly but I can't I can't.

26:35 And so. So

26:38 being an alcoholic and an addict has taught me a lot about the power of
addiction but it's also taught me a lot about recovery and the fact that there's
much more to recovery than just not drinking or not drugging it to be a person
to recovery means to strive to do better will be better. Even though we'll never
do it to perfection and and my recovery has allowed me to has allowed me to
work on myself. I mean first and foremost recovery is about not using right. But
what beyond that is the fact that it's allowed me to see my flaws to be able to
make amends to people who are hurt. That has nothing to do with being an
alcoholic. It has everything to do with being a person who's responsible in
recovery. And so I think that from the first day like I said from a person comes
opportunity and I've been given so many wonderful opportunities.

27:38 You could even say that you Nancy and your brothers are a direct result of
addiction recovery in my life because if I hadn't been an addict or an alcoholic I
wouldn't have made it out to St. Paul Minnesota to go to treatment and if I
 hadn't gone to treatment at Hazelton in 1989 I wouldn't met your mother and I
hadn't met your mother.

27:59 At some point you guys wouldn't be here. I would have a different life. But

28:03 by looking it any of us can see the great things that come from the bad things
that happen to us then we're going to be OK. And I look back on my life I think
oh my god I wish you so much money. I hurt people I wasted those years in
college. I was not a good person. Know those are all true. They'll always be true.
Those are facts by. I got you and I got Thomas and I got Henry and I got this
great job. I got the sense of self-worth and you know all these things that I'm
that are called My life today.

28:40 All of these things this dog that you're on the floor of a cat over there in the
corner. This house is beautiful.

28:47 They know these things would have been true if I hadn't been sick with the
owners of addiction and hadn't gotten well from it.

29:00 So I wouldn't necessarily wish my life body and I wouldn't trade it for me.

29:07 Last but not least how does the stigma towards addicts and alcoholics in
recovery affect you personally in your life.

29:18 Well it's sad to see so many people who are ashamed of being sick with this
illness. It's sad to see that level of denial that people and families have when it
comes to recognizing addiction in their own lives the lives of those people that
mattered. And it's really sad to see that I hate the stigma of addiction I hated.

29:41 You know I've made my life's calling to shine a bright light on my own
experience into the dark corner of shame private shame and public intolerance
stigma of addiction has caused people to die. They

30:00 won't get help. I don't know where to turn for help or they don't have the kind
of help that they need. It's caused members of Congress or state legislatures to
enact laws that don't really reflect the reality that addiction is an illness it's a
treatable illness that treatment works and recovery is possible instead we
stigmatize it or think that it only affects people who live in north Minneapolis or
under bridges or uneducated on the east side or you know addiction is anybody
problem. And it's also everybody's responsibility to come up with solutions that
allow people and families and communities to overcome it. I think the stigma of
addiction still exists. And part of it exists even among us in recovery because
when we really recover too many of us hide behind our coverage we just go
back to you know.

30:56 I mean how would anybody know that I was a recovering person if I didn't share
it with them. And yet I know too many people don't want to talk sober or that
 their child is you know in recovery or something. And then we don't stand up
and speak out to people in recovery then we foster that stigma as well. It's
important that people in recovery do stand up and speak up so they can not
only put a face on what the problem was but all based on solution. And the
other day when I first started doing this work it was to unmask the stigma of
addiction what I have discovered by unmasculine this stigma is that when I
stand up and speak out in public that I become a beacon of hope for other
people and that's why so many people come to me because they're like oh wait
you're pushing that recovery.

31:47 I didn't know that. Well can you help me get so free we you know in the same
way that women with breast cancer or gay men with HIV AIDS had that get in
the streets and march and put a face on it. We have to do the same thing
whether we're old timers like me or young people like you. We all have a
responsibility to do our part to you go talk about recovery and the positive
experiences that we had from it.

32:16 So I'm always beating the drum to get us to stand up and speak out and balance.

32:25 You know there's a lot of families in St. Paul Minneapolis Minnesota across this
country who lost loved ones as a result. This is what I tell them all the time is
you can still be advocates too even though you lost a loved one. You need to
stand up and speak out to.

32:39 So I don't like the stigma but it's a great opportunity for us to rally around hope
and to help and to really prevent so much.