\M, JENINE REDDEN Official Court Reporter ‘26th District Court ILS Congress Ave., 3rd Floor Houston, Texas 77002 (713} 755-1104 REQUEST FOR REPORTER'S RECORD Date: TO: M. Jenine Redden, Official Court Reporter 246th District Court FROM: Attorney of Record: SBN: Attorney Foi Telephone: Fax: This will request Reporter's Record in this case. 1. Case number__ 2. Case name 3. Hearing date 4. Date you will need Reporter's Record SSS delivered Please commence the preparation of the record consistent with your work load. ‘Thank you Attorney of Record ~ Dear Counsel: The estimated cost of the record is $ » and I will need a deposit of $ Please return this letter with the deposit amout and I will commence preparation of the record as requested according to my work load. Any balance due should be paid upon completion. ‘You may contact me at my direct line in the court, (713) 755-1104. ‘Thank you, Jenine Redden, CSR: Official Court Reporter 246th District Court10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CAUSE NO. 200126400 CHARLOTTE HARDIN ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT PETTTONER vs. } HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS JAMES DARWIN HARDIN ) DEFENDANT } 246TH DISTRICT COURT Terttrettetettitrttteticttrettt ttt tetrt ttt tt crt rey TRANSCRIPTION OF AUDIOTAPED TITLE IV-4 HEARING BETWEEN JAMES HARDIN, DEFENDANT; MARY QUINN, PLAINTIFF'S COUNSEL AND RANDY BOYKIN, OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL COUNSEL OCTOBER 1, 2003 Perrerrrrrcttretrerrttrttttttttrtittttttttt trier tic? TRANSCRIBED BY: Shelly Dann, RPR Dann REPORTING, LLP. 16720 Stuebner Airline #179 Spring, Texas 77379 (832) 338-5931 Contracted by: James Hardin Dann Reporting, LLP 832-38-593110 al 12 13 a4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 MR. BOYKIN: Mr. Hardin, you're aware (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: Yes, sir. MR. BOYKIN: So, basically, we just -- I think you were here last time, she was (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: No. MR. BOYKIN: Okay. So, basically, we just need to see where we -~ do you have any agreements we can come to on this? And if we can't, then we'll just wait and let the judge decide. We'll see what happens. Do you have any questions, Counsel? MS. QUINN: We just want a contempt order issued. I think Charlotte will not (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: I don't -~ MR. BOYKIN: Can we talk about (inaudible) issues? (Inaudible). MS. QUINN: Yeah. I will. MR. HARDIN: The issue that I have is this whole matter is still on appeal as of yesterday. MR. BOYKIN: No. You're application is on appeal. The original order is still in Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ql. 12 13 14 15 16 aq 18 19 20 21 22 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 effect. MR. HARDIN: Right. MR. BOYKIN: That's what we have (inaudible) was the original. Do you have any (inaudible) to -- MR. HARDIN: Are you aware that I filed an (inaudible)? MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) since the original order. I mean that's -- MR. HARDIN: Are you aware that I filed a motion? MR. BOYKIN: I'm aware you filed an application. I'm aware it was denied. Now you've got it on appeal. MR. HARDIN: No. No. I'm talking about a motion that was filed this week -- MR, BOYKIN: Oh. No. MR. HARDIN: -- for dismissal, because the statute of limitations is up on this matter. It has to be concluded within one year and that one year -- the time spent -- MR. BOYKIN: When (inaudible) concluded? MR. HARDIN: If you look in there -- MR. BOYKIN: That is administrative Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 only, Mr. Hardin, and it is only Iv-D. MR. HARDIN: This is IV-D, isn't it? MR. BOYKIN: I know, but this is a IV-D administrative thing, not a judicial thing. MR. HARDIN: Right. MR. BOYKIN: This is a judicial -- MR. HARDIN: And in there it also brings up the administrative (inaudible). MR. BOYKIN: You can certainly present this to the judge. MR. HARDIN: TI also have a -- MR. BOYKIN: Now, see that's -- and it's not about up. I mean, that not (inaudible). Sure. You go ahead and (inaudible). Okay. Whatever. MR. HARDIN: Go ahead and what? MS. HARDIN: If you want to take it before the judge, you can take it before the judge, James. MR. BOYKIN: If you take it to the judge, then you earned it MR. HARDIN: All I'm saying is I don't see that I have any other -- MR. BOYKIN: That's right. You may not have another (inaudible). ‘That's the reason Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 2i 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 that I'm trying to talk to you about maybe coming to an agreement, rather than have you go before the judge. Because if we go before the judge, the judge -- of course, you can hurt your deal. If he denies that, he could put you in jail on this case. I don't think you want to go to jail. Apparently nobody wants to go to jail. MR. HARDIN: I don't think that's in the best interest of the child. I mean, she is receiving money and I can't -- MR. BOYKIN: Nobody wants you to go -- MR. HARDIN: -- give what I don't have. I'm giving more that what the law even requires of me. MS. QUINN: It's the law, James. The law requires you to give what that court ordered. MR. HARDIN: At the same time -- MS. QUINN: And there's not been a modification. And until there is a modification, you've got to pay that amount of money -- MR. HARDIN: But I can't -- MS. QUINN: -- to the court. MR. HARDIN: I can't give what I don't have, Quinn. I just can't give what I don't Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ai 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 6 have. MR. BOYKIN: Okay. Well, let me say this. The court, evidently, is not convinced that that was too much for you to pay or they would not have ordered it, originally -- MR. HARDIN: No. That was way back. MR. BOYKIN: -- and denied your motion to modify. $0, judicially, two courts -- MS. QUINN: I mean, you don't actually -- MR. BOYKIN: The original order was there, right? The original order was (inaudible). MR. BOYKIN: The court -- or at least the same court has twice said no to amending the child support, so that's not an issue. If it's not an issue, then -~ MR. HARDIN: The court hadn't said that MR. BOYKIN: originally. MR, HARDIN: was agreed. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) said no. twice. Well, it ordered it It ordered you to pay $800 for one -- That was an agreed. It Okay. But it was in the Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 11 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 order. MR. HARDIN: And since then, there's been certain events -- MR. BOYKIN: And then you filed a motion to modify and the court denied that. That's what you've got on appeal. MR. HARDIN: And last time I was here I filed an affirmative defense that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt everything that required under the affirmative defense that I lack the ability to provide the support. I lack the property that could be sold or mortgaged or otherwise to get the money. I attempted unsuccessfully to borrow the money and I know of no source which I can get the money. I provided all that to you the last time I was here. And my circumstances haven't changed. I'm not trying to say I'm not going to pay or anything like that. MR. BOYKIN: Well, you better be paying. I mean, it's not a matter of what you're saying to me. You're saying, "Well, gee, I'm not (inaudible) ." MS. QUINN: And you've arbitrarily taken the position that you're only going to pay -- MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 MR. HARDIN: No. That's not true. I have taken the position that I am paying every single dime that I possibly can. And I can't give that that I don't have. MS. QUINN: That's not -- MR. HARDIN: I mean, the only thing else you guys can do is stick a tap in me and suck my blood out. I don't -- I can't give what I don't have. MR. BOYKIN: Are you in good shape? MR. HARDIN: No, I'm not. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: I don't know. All this has got a pattern. I'm here in good faith. I want -- I love my daughter dearly. I want to take care of her. I want to give her everything that I can and I have been giving everything I can. I just cannot give more right now. It’s not within my ability. MS. QUINN: Well, unfortunately, James, you're misguided attempt at playing lawyer cost Charlotte tons of money because of the stuff you do. She has to get me involved because you don't understand what you're doing. MR. HARDIN: Well, that's your Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 aL 12 i 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 opinion. MS. QUINN: Please get a lawyer. MR. HARDIN: No. I can't afford a lawyer. MS. QUINN: Well, then, if -- MR. HARDIN: And I've brought evidence to this court that proves by their own administrative rules -- and I did it line item by line item and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am doing everything I can. MS. QUINN: Let's do it this way. MR. HARDIN: And it seems like no one is happy unless I'm on a tap with my blood coming out, you know. MS. QUINN: No. No one is happy unless you follow the rules, James. MR. HARDIN: I'm following the rules. MS. QUINN: You're not following the rules. You never have followed the rules. You're confused about the law. MR. HARDIN: You want me to give something I can't give. I can't give it. I don't have it. now MR. BOYKIN: Where are you working Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 qi 12 13 14 16 A 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 10 MR. HARDIN: ‘The same place. I have one contract. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: No. No. MR. BOYKIN: Are you -- MR. HARDIN: I have a contract -- no. I have a contract that is with Horizon Builders and it's due to end in two weeks. So then what are we going to do? MR. BOYKIN: I mean, do you have contracts that last six months and then are renewed. MR. HARDIN: No. It was a three-month contract and -- MR. BOYKIN: What do you make monthly and what do you do for them? MR. HARDIN: It's estimating and project management. MR. BOYKIN: So you're contracts are not long of duration, most of the time, anyway, are they, three months, six months at a time? MR. HARDIN: No. Usually -- this is the first time I've had a three-month contract. Usually I was an employee for somebody else, but I couldn't find a job like that, so I just started by own business and try to get a contract. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 al 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D OCTOBER 1, HEARING 2003 a MR. BOYKIN: three-month contract? MR. HARDIN: MR. BOYKIN: renewed? MR. HARDIN: week that in two more weeks It's in evergreen right now. MR. BOYKIN: MR. HARDIN: other words, date. MS. QUINI James, do you think you are MR. HARDIN: based upon -- MS. QUINN: MR. HARDIN: MS. QUINN: think you ought to pay? MR. HARDIN: what I -- in accordance -- 20 percent of what I make. MS. QUINN: like the And you've got a Yes, sir. Is it going to be I was just told last it would be terminated. It's what? It's in evergreen. In it's ongoing but it's past it's due : What amount of money, supposed to pay? I think I should pay What's the number? -- what -- What's the number you I think I should pay law says, What do you think that is? We need a number of child support you think you Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ll 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 12 ought to pay per month? (Inaudible) where you think you are? MR. HARDIN: It sounds like you're trying to trick me into saying a number that -- I mean -- I'm not -- MS. QUINN: I'm not -- (inaudible) MR. HARDIN: I don't have a number that I think I should pay. I think I should pay according to the guidelines. MS. QUINN: You've been paying 500 haven't you? MR. HARDIN: Yes. MS. QUINN: And that's the number -~ MR. HARDIN: And 61.29 for insurance MS. QUINN: On the insurance, but you realize that's going toward child support because you're paying it to child support, instead of paying it directly. MR. HARDIN: That was because she tried to deny payment that I have her directly MS. QUINN: Well, that's just another reason, James, you really need to get a lawyer What do you think -- how much money are you making? MR. HARDIN: I have my latest Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 13 statement right here that I brought -- MR. BOYKIN: Now, before you -- are you paid by the hour? MR. HARDIN: Sir? MR. BOYKIN: Are you paid by the hour? MR. HARDIN: Yes -- well, I get paid by the week based on my distributions. That's my this month distribution. It all depends on how much ~- the expenses that I have. MS. QUINN: When did you start your own company? MR. HARDIN: It was back in February. I had just started and just got that contract last time I came here. MS. QUINN: And you have to tell us the name of the company. MR. HARDIN: My company? I gave it to these guys. It's called Harding & Associates. And I have the document where it's filed with the Secretary of State and everything here. MS. QUINN: And you're not working anywhere except Hardin & Associates and what are you doing, estimating? MR. HARDIN: Estimating and project Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ql 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 14 management. The only contract I have at this time is with Horizon Builders. MR. BOYKIN: Is he paying 500 a month? MS. QUINN: Yes. That's what he's doing. MR. BOYKIN: I'm looking for my printout. I don't see my printout. MR. HARDIN: I have a copy of that if you need it. Printed off from last night. MR, BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: I did another verified statement of my resources here and, as you can see, I'm in the red. I mean, I'm upside down, That's my whole point. MS. QUINN: Health insurance, I'm sure, is about to go up too. MR. BOYKIN: We'll need to make a copy of that. MR. HARDIN: Do you want the estimate? Can you make a copy of these? MS. QUINN: Yeah. MR. HARDIN: For you guys (inaudible). MS. QUINN: Is that your rate before Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 aL 12 13 14 15 16 ty) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 15 taxes or after taxes? MR. HARDIN: No. That's before. 1 still have to do the taxes and the Social Security. MS. QUINN: This is what we need to do, James: We need to (inaudible) and agree to order of contempt, figure out how much money you can pay back on a monthly basis. And then see if we can... MR. HARDIN: What I don't want to happen is I make an agreement to pay more than I'm already paying right now, which is putting me in the red, and then I lose my contract and then I'm in contempt again. Do you see my point? It's a never-ending cycle, you know. MS. QUIN! : Uh-huh. MR. HARDIN: I'm trying to be as fair as I possibly can. I mean, I'm giving as much as I possibly can and I don't have any vindictiveness against Charlotte. That's the mother of my child. I will always love her for that purpose and I love my daughter more than anything. She's my first child. The last thing I want to do is hurt her in any way. And you're aware from the original proceedings, that's why I just signed everything Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a. 12 13 14 15 16 st) 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 16 over. I gave her everything. All my equity in the home and everything because I wanted my daughter to be taken care of. MS. QUINN: There is no question you owe the money for the original order. (Inaudible.) Should you win a modification, that's the question. You probably should -- I'll tell you that right now, unless you play your cards right, it's not going to happen because that's just the way the law is. MR. HARDIN: The law is bounding me to an impossibility. And you see my point? It's an impossibility. I can't give it. and not only that, but what if I turn around and agree to this and then we go back to trial in an appeals court and they overturn all that? MS, QUINN: They're not going to -~ you don't understand. They are not going to -- all the appeals court is going to do, if they overturn anything -- MR. HARDIN: Is remand it back. MS. QUINN: -- is give you a new trial on the modification. MR. HARDIN: And it's still subject to retroactive from the date I originally filed it. And so you see my point? Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 11 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 17 MS. QUINN: I see your point, but you're wrong. It isn't going to happen that way. And if that did happen, you'd get a credit. MR. HARDIN: TI mean, how is that going to help Charlotte? A credit would mean that she don't get any money at all for a certain amount of time. That's only going to hurt my daughter. MS. QUINN: Unless you stop now, but you keep doing this stuff. MR. HARDIN: I'm not doing anything but giving all I can give. I have no vindictiveness against her. MS. QUINN: Do you have child support (inaudible)? Well, let me ask you this: If we issue an order that says that there is -- you (inaudible) -- let's say you paid the original order, if we -- I don't know if she will, but if she agrees to modify the child support based on what you're currently making, will you pay the $500.00 child support? MR. HARDIN: The insurance. MS. QUINN: The insurance. If she agrees with all that, you would have to agree to drop what you've got going on in the 246th right Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 13) 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 18 now. So it won't cost her anymore money on that. MR. HARDIN: Not the appeals, the one that (inaudible) right now? MS. QUINN: Uh-huh. Yeah. TI don't care what happens in a year. You're the one that brought the appeal. But you have to drop this one petition. MR. HARDIN: (Inaudible.) MS. QUINN: Because it's costing her money to hire me to do this. MR. HARDIN: So all -- MS. QUINN: All that will do to you, if the appeal happens, then you've got a shot at it. If the court grants you're appeal, it means you're going to get a shot at it. But in the meantime, we would finish -- and I haven't talked to her about this. She may not agree to it. She may say no. MR. HARDIN: So where ~~ I want to make ~~ MS, QUINN: I want to make sure, real quick. I need to talk to her. I'm going to suggest to her that she consider going ahead and just agreeing to reduce your child support just to stop the blood. Not yours, hers. MR. HARDIN: Both ways. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 19 MS. QUINN: So that she's not spending all this time and money, worried about all this, having to pay me to drive down to court to look at all these motions and stuff that you've filed. And quite frankly, if these numbers are good, then you probably are due a modification. But if she will agree to reduce it to $500 starting -- what's today -- starting -- MR. HARDIN: The lst. MS. QUINN: Okay. -- October 1, it will be November before we get the order in. Then you would need to agree -- you would have to get rid of the case you've got -- dismiss your case over in the 246th and if leave your appeal pending -- whatever happens on the appeal, happens on the appeal. We'll deal with that down the road. If they grant you you're appeal, they grant the appeal; if they deny the appeal, you still can go back whenever you want to and file a motion to modify. I just want you to get rid of this one here so we're not -- that's not holding over our heads, okay? And then we enter an order today saying that you are in contempt for however much we need to calculate out. We think it's about $8,000, Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ql 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 20 $7,000, and you pay that -- How much do you have? MR. BOYKIN: You've got it on your sheet there. I think it's eight. MS. QUINN: Eight? MR. BOYKIN: 83, something like that. 8,368.25. MS. QUINN: And then you pay that back at the rate of X number of dollars per month in addition to the $500. 1 don't know what. We'll figure that out. Maybe a hundred. It's going to strap you a little, but that's -- MR. HARDIN: That's already more than a little bit. MS. QUINN: And then you pay that back and then you walk away again. Now, I don't know if she'll agree to do that, James. I mean, it's possible about modification, because she's so pissed about it. But all this is possible, if these numbers are correct. (Inaudible) numbers bother me -- MR. BOYKIN: 8,368.25 and the interest is about $35 a month, so it's got -- a payment has got to be made. MS. QUINN: Yeah. We'll have to -- Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1 12 3) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2i 22 23 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 21 about a hundred will do it, I think. If you want me to talk to her about that, I will. MR. HARDIN: So how would that affect -- if I make that agreement, and then the appeals court rules and they go back and then they retroact it, how is that going to effect this order? MS. QUINN: I'm not sure how that would affect that one. If the court of appeals grants him -- MR. BOYKIN: It's a retrial and you go back through another trial again and you start all over. MR. HARDIN: Right. MS. QUINN: But his concern is if he requested a retroactive modification -~ which you realize, that's discretionary -- they don't have to give you retro. So it may or may not affect it. I guess if the court -- I mean MR. BOYKIN: I would expect it -- MS. QUINN: If the court is opposed -- let's say, James -- MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) retroactive (inaudible)? MS. QUINN: Reduce it. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 22 MR. HARDIN: Right. Then that would make this agreement -- MS, QUINN: It would have to give a credit. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible). MS. QUINN: It would have to be a credit. MR, BOYKIN: But I mean, there's 8,000 owed, so you're not going to knock down $8,000. (Inaudible.) MS. QUINN: No. That's true. MR, BOYKIN: You would still have some left. Even if you were to win and get it modified retroactive. MS. QUINN: Even if they do a reduction, it won't be -- it won't give a lot -- MR. BOYKIN: The arrears. MR. HARDIN: So what would that do as far as getting an order saying I'm in contempt, then? Then I'm subject to jail time. MS. QUINN: Only if you don't do what you're supposed to under the contempt order. We're saying -- you're subject to jail time right now, if the judge finds you in contempt. Right this minute, if the judge says you're in contempt, they can haul Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 23 you to jail today. MR. BOYKIN: She is speaking the truth. MS. QUINN: But Charlotte -- MR. BOYKIN: It's the reason we're trying to talk. We don't want you to go to jail. MS. QUINN: We really don't. MR. HARDIN: That -~ MR. BOYKIN: That doesn't mean that. won't send you there. I won't send you there if you don't wake up it. MR. HARDIN: What I'm worried about is that in two weeks I lose my contract and then I just make this deal and now I'm having to pay more than I am now, which has got me upside down, I'm in the red. MR. BOYKIN: We're going to have a compliance in about six months. What's the compliance date up there? UNKNOWN: April 7th, 2004. MR. BOYKIN: April 7th. MR. HARDIN: What does that mean? MR. BOYKIN: You come back -- that means: It's a compliance date to see if you have been doing what you should be doing. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-5931AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 24 1 If you lose your contract and you're | 2 out of a job; if you come in on that compliance 3 date, then you let the judge know that. He will 4 give you some time. That doesn't mean he's going to 5 infinitely let you go -- 6 MS. QUINN: No. 7 MR. BOYKIN: -- but it does mean that 8 he'll take that into consideration. 9 MS. QUINN: And quite frankly, nobody 10 knows what the future is going to be, James. I 1 don't know. You don't know. You could get hit by a 12 bus tomorrow. I don't know that and you don't. 13 MR. HARDIN: I almost did this 14 morning. 15 MS. QUINN: We can't base our -- 16 MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) a7 MR. HARDIN: No, man, It almost hit 18 her too. We were passing each other and it -- 19 MS, QUINN: We can't base our child 20 support on what it -- ai MR. HARDIN: No. I understand that. 22 MS. QUINN: -- the court bases it on 23 what's today. 24 MR. HARDIN: Right. - 25 MS. QUINN: So if something changes, Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 25 then you have the right to come back and say, "Well, wait a minute." But you've got to do it in right form. You're not a stupid man, James. You're not. You really want -- you've got some smarts, but you've gotta go using them the right way. And really you're trying to do stuff yourself that -- I could no more do an estimated job than the man in the moon, I'm not trained for it. You can't be your own lawyer, You're not trained for it. You're screwing yourself up more than your helping yourself. You really don't -- MR. BOYKIN: Well, let's put it this way and paint that picture: If I went out to estimate, I could probably do some estimates. It would take me much longer, be much more involved, and I would probably make more mistakes than I -- MR. HARDIN: I have to work every single night on this stuff because of the (inaudible), you know. MR. BOYKIN: It becomes an obsession and -- MR. HARDIN: I just want it to end. No. It ain't an obsession. MS. QUINN: We want it to end too. We want it to end to. And if you weren't having to Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 26 work every single night on this, then maybe you could go get a part-time job and you'd be able to make he money you need. MR. HARDIN: But the point is, if I don't, I'm ending up in jail. I'm between a rock and a hard spot. MS. QUINN: That's right. MR. BOYKIN: Do you understand that the judge is going to want to see if you're contract isn't renewed and you're not able to -- the judge will take that into consideration. MS. QUINN: (Inaudible.) Do you want me to go talk to Charlotte about this or not? I'm going to go talk to her. I don't know that she's going to do this. MR, BOYKIN: The judge will take that into consideration and probably will give you another (inaudible). If you -- if it's like a year and you say, "I didn't tell the judge." The judge is going to have to do something. MR. HARDIN: That's understandable, you know. The issue at this time, the only reason I'm behind is because Adam broke his back. I was completely out of work. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a. 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 ai 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 27 MR, BOYKIN: If they -- if you're appeal was granted and they sent it back to the trial court and you retried it and you came up with a different solution than last time; and once you've got that order, then you need to get it to us and we would then put it in the computer and it would reshuffle all the figures. So, in other words, you might -- instead of owing 83, you might only owe -- MR. HARDIN: 23 or 33. MR. BOYKIN: Yeah. It would work in your favor. MR. HARDIN: I'm not opposed to paying the extra, you know. It's just that -- MR. BOYKIN: In the meantime, between MR. HARDIN: -- right now I'm upside down, as you can see. I'm in the red. MR. BOYKIN: I understand. MR. HARDIN: And to add $100 is only going to hurt me worse. MR. BOYKIN: And I understand (inaudible). I understand too that you filed another modification just like the first on in the 246th, again. Is that correct? MR. HARDIN: No, sir. That's not correct. What I filed in the 246th -- the first Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 28 one, that's on appeal right now, was for child support; and the second one that I filed that's going on in the 246th right now is for access and visitation. MR. BOYKIN: Was that MR. HARDIN: Because I never get to see my daughter. I don't understand -- MR, BOYKIN: Let me ask you this: Was that covered in the first one too, that you asked for -~ MR, HARDIN: Yeah, at first, because I had moved to Dallas with my job. But then they laid off our whole department, so we had to drop that because I was back in Houston. MR. BOYKIN: Okay. So you dropped that issue then? You didn't go forward? MR. HARDIN: Right. And that's the problem right now, is I don't even have standard -- MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) on that then if it's an entirely different issue, then the (inaudible) on -- MR. HARDIN: I even did a hearing and everything else showing him that it's a public policy that you can't entangle those two issues. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 29 And he said that his whole worry is about stepping on the court's toes, the appeals court. And I kept telling him, it's two -- it's apples and oranges. The one in the appeals court is for child support. The one I'm here now -- I just want standard visitation. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) is the child support? MR. HARDIN: Yes, sir. And I don't understand. Why can't I have standard visitation with my daughter? There is nothing in those records that shows I'm an un- -- MR. BOYKIN: You don't need to be arguing with me. MR. HARDIN: I mean, everybody -- even you, are going, "Why ain't judge hearing it?” Nobody understands it except for him. The public policy says they're totally separate. MR. BOYKIN: The judge (inaudible). So I don't know -- MR. HARDIN: There were two mediators next to me that day in court and I looked at them and I go, "He can't do this," and they looked at me and they're like, "No, he can't. MR. BOYKIN: Well, if it makes you Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 30 feel any better, he's come down with a couple of decisions that fly in the face of case law, statutory law. And then he comes back and says, "Well, I may have made a mistake on that." MR. HARDIN: The problem is, meanwhile, I don't even have standard visitation with my daughter. I have to pay all this money -- I only get her on Saturday mornings until Sunday afternoon, That's all I get her. I don't get her Wednesdays. I don't get her Christmas. I don't get her at all. MS. QUINN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: ‘That's not fair. MR. BOYKIN: Everything, in due course, will be worked out, This is not a situation where she's in an emergency situation where she's being abused or something. MR. HARDIN: No. MR. BOYKIN: In due course, everything will be worked out and you'll -- if you're entitled to it, you'll get her. MR. HARDIN: But that's what she's saying. She wants me to drop -- MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) feasible to get your visitation. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 at 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 31 MR. HARDIN: No. But the problem is that I have another daughter now who's nine months old and, you know, she has relationship with her half- MR. BOYKIN: relationship. a right to establish a sister. She'll establish a What I'm saying is these legal issues need to be worked out and there will be plenty of time for her to establish a relationship. MR. HARDIN: MR. BOYKIN: What is it, one weekend or every Saturday and Sunday? MR. HARDIN: third and fifth weekends. MR. BOYKIN: MR. HARDIN: I (inaudible), you know. (Inaudible) weekend. is it every weekend, I get her the first, Saturdays? I get her Saturday at 9 a.m. and I bring her home at seven on Sunday. MR. BOYKIN: That's one overnight. It looks like you're missing, under the standard, other than the holiday visitation is the Friday night MR. HARDIN: Wednesdays. MR. BOYKIN: Wednesdays. Friday night and the There are no more Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ql 12) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 32 MR. HARDIN: What do you mean? MR. BOYKIN: No more Wednesdays. MR. HARDIN: When did they do away with that. MR. BOYKIN: This last legislative session. It's Thursdays. MR. HARDIN: Oh. It's Thursday now? I was going to say, I remember looking at the new one, because when I filed my order in the 246th for this, I took it out of the new legislation. MR. BOYKIN: You better look at it, September Ist. MR. HARDIN: Yeah. That's when it went into effect. That's what Judge York and I were talking about at the last hearing. So that Thursday is actually -- where it used to be -- MR. BOYKIN: Wednesday night, from about 8 to 10 or so. MR. HARDIN: Yeah. Now it goes where you can return them to school the next morning. MR. BOYKIN: Now, that Wednesday night visitation usually was a phone call or a short period, take them to a movie or out to get a Coke or get a hamburger or something. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2a 22 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 33 [ MR. HARDIN: Right. I thought that's what changed, though, is this MR. BOYKIN: ‘They purposely did not mean that you could keep them all weekend. MR. HARDIN: No. No. I mean overnight. In other words, hypothetically -- MR. BOYKIN: No. There is no Thursday night overnight, just Thursday, what, six to ten or six to nine, something like that -- 6:30. MR. HARDIN: See that's why she's wanting me to drop. That's the suit that I have right now going is to try to have more time with my daughter and she wants me to drop that one to make this deal, you know. You know, I mean, whey can't her client agree to let me see my daughter more? MR, BOYKIN: She's probably asking me the same question. "Why can't we (inaudible) 2” To tell you the truth, you may -~ work it all out, even the holiday visitation; other than the real short three hour visitation, like on your birthday or (inaudible). Most of them work out. You, probably, getting her every other weekend will probably get close to the amount of time that you would get, even with the holidays -- because even with the holidays -- I think it's Christmas, Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 ai 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 34 like a week before or a week after. And one of those weekends will probably be your weekend anyway. So all your getting is a little extra time there. Alternate years, you split the other holidays, like Easter and Thanksgiving. MR. HARDIN: And summer vacations, too. MR. BOYKIN: Summer vacations is one month. MR. HARDIN: Right. MR. BOYKIN: You get that. MR. HARDIN: That's a whole month, though, I can be with my daughter, where right now, I can't. MR. BOYKIN: For that month, you would have gotten, probably, two weekends anyway because that's your -- MR. HARDIN: Well -- MR. BOYKIN: You're getting every other weekend. MR. HARDIN: No. I'm saying with her one month. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) every other weekend. MR. HARDIN: Yeah. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 al 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 35 MR. BOYKIN: Well, you get 30 days -- MR, HARDIN: Straight. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) So you take July. So (inaudible). In July you get from the Ist to the 30th. MR. HARDIN: That ain't bad. MR. BOYKIN: Two of those weekends in July, you would have gotten her anyway. MR. HARDIN: Right. But I've got five days during the week she's with me where -- MR. BOYKIN: Then, of course, she has a right to have visitation during that 30 days, too. MR. HARDIN: Right. And I'm not opposed to that. I mean, I think my daughter needs to be with both her parents, you know, not just one. And I thought -~ when I was reading in the Title Iv-p stuff, it said that both parents can file. And that if I show evidence to the Office of Attorney General -- a packet with you guys -- MR. BOYKIN: For what? MR. HARDIN: For assistance. MR. BOYKIN: What kind of action. MR. HARDIN: For modifying this. MR. BOYKIN: The modification? MR. HARDIN: Yes, sir. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 36 MR. BOYKIN: In fact, I think I told you that last time. MR. HARDIN: And the thing is, you know, I've given all the information that I can give you and the Office of the Attorney General hasn't tried to set it according to -- MR. BOYKIN: You need to -- MS. QUINN: We're willing for you to bring the modification documentation to show what your relationship is with the office, the contract that you've got. (Inaudible) two weeks for that to happen. We'll set that up for three weeks from now, whatever. (Inaudible) at that point, (inaudible) to do the child support. I'm willing to look -- I'm willing to -- I want to see the documents. MR. HARDIN: I gave that stuff to you the last time, the contract and everything. MR, BOYKIN: You just gave me (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: Correct. And that has the contract. MS. QUINN: And still not giving you the modification. They're just going to keep on. I'm talking about modifying the amount. But we will talk about that and we'll talk about the case that's Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 37 going on over in the 246th right now. MR. HARDIN: (Inaudible.) MS. QUINN: With what you've got, we may agree to reduce it. MR. BOYKIN: And agreed order. MS. QUINN: But I'm going to want you to -- and not mention the appeal -- you can do whatever you want to on the appeal. Part of that agreement to modify would be I get documents showing what's going on with your finances and get a really clear, true picture. And you get rid of that case that's going on in the 246th so that she's not spending any more money on (inaudible). That would be (inaudible). But for today's purposes, only contempt. I think what we want to do is go ahead and find the contempt order be in place with -- MR. HARDIN: (Inaudible.) MS. QUINN: -- and have a payout, whatever that is. And then, I think, really, the (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: You guys are, but I don't have a hundred extra. MS. QUINN: James, the only option is just take it from there. And if that's what you Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 13 14 15 16 aly) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 38 want to do, we will do that. MR, HARDIN: I want to do whatever is easiest for everybody, but I don't have another hundred to give. That's my point. I'm not saying I'm not willing to pay something extra, I just don't -- MS. QUINN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: -- you guys have it. I'm in the red weekly. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) what you want, what you think, I mean, you're sitting here saying, "No. No. No." I want to get -- I want to hear something that -- MR. HARDIN: Anything -- any other than what I'm paying now, I would have to borrow from my wife. MS. QUINN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: I mean, I would have to talk to her and see how much she could give me each month. MR. BOYKIN: Why don't you go talk to her. Is she here? MR. HARDIN: No, sir. MR. BOYKIN: Why don't you get her on the phone right over there and you can talk. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 39 MS. QUINN: We're going to have to have a number, James. If we're going to do this today -- MR. BOYKIN: And we may agree with that number and we may not, but I mean, we need to -- MS. QUINN: Because what we were talking about doing is put an agreed order in place, a finding of contempt for the 8,000, that you pay an X number of dollars per month. And then I'm saying, I will sit down with you, if you will (inaudible) my office (inaudible). In three weeks, you're telling me that this contract is going to end and you'll bring me all the documents that I ask for, which I want to see every record of income you've had for this year. MR. HARDIN: Any record of income. MS. QUINN: Yes. MR. HARDIN: That's not a problem. MS. QUINN: Okay. MR. HARDIN: There's only been one contract that I've had. MS. QUINN: I want every record of income from the first of this year. I want to see the contract with Horizon. I want to see the Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1. 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 40 financial statement, like you put together there, with the expenses on them. And then we'll talk -- I'll talk with Charlotte about whether or not she will agree to reduce it to something that you can live with, that 500 number, maybe. MR. HARDIN: Why can't we do this meeting and stuff and then come back and do this contempt order? MS. QUINN: Because it's set now and I'm not going to give that up. MR. BOYKIN: You're set for trial. MS. QUINN: It's set for trial. MR. HARDIN: Well, it was set for trial the last time I talked to you. MR. BOYKIN: No. It was set for a court appearance. MR. HARDIN: It was set for what? MR. BOYKIN: A court setting -- a hearing setting. MS. QUINN: No. I'm not going to -- I want it over with today, this part over with today. There's too much stuff hanging. MR. HARDIN: TI agree. MS. QUINN: So, we get this part over with today, I don't have any problems. I want an Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 41 appointment set today as to when you're going to come to my office and bring me all this stuff. MR. HARDIN: All right. At the same time, I mean, I can't agree to bring you this stuff and then when I get there, you go, " jope. This ain't what I asked for, you're in” -- you know, "you're in contempt of our agreed order." MR. BOYKIN: If you've got some of it today, why don't you go ahead and give it to her today. MR. HARDIN: I just did. I gave her a copy of the -- MR. BOYKIN: Okay. MS. QUINN: Well, what you gave me ~~ MR. BOYKIN: She says what she wanted, she wanted ~~ MR. HARDIN: Is a copy of the check -- my check stubs for September and my accounts from the beginning of the year to present. MR. BOYKIN: Does that show what you made? MR. HARDIN: That shows -- right. Yes, sir. MS. QUINN: Well, eventually, though, what I need to see are the bank accounts. I need to Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 lt 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 42 see the bank account. MR. HARDIN: See, that I can't agree to. I have a partner. My partner isn't going to agree to let her bank statements and stuff be dragged into my litigation. MR. BOYKIN: What do you mean? It's the company akin. MR. HARDIN: It's a what? MR, BOYKIN: A company akin. MR. HARDIN: But I have a partner and my company -- MR. BOYKIN: It's a company account, right? MS. QUINN: And you're a partner in the company. MR. HARDIN: Yes. MS. QUINN: That means I get it. MR. BOYKIN: That means she can get it -- I believe she can. MS. QUINN: Yeah. That's what -- MR. BOYKIN: I mean, that's not going -- MS. QUINN: Nobody is trying to screw you, James. TI just don't want -- MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible) partner Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 a1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 43 (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: I'm just saying I don't know how my -- you know, my partner is going to react to giving over bank statements and stuff that I-- MS. QUINN: I don't really care how they feels. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) MS. QUINN: --~ I'm entitled to it and I'll either get them by agreement or I'll get them under subpoena. That's the rule. And I don't want to be hard-assed about it, but I will. MR. HARDIN: I don't either. But this lady, she is a -- MR. BOYKIN: You have that lady call us if she objects. MS, QUINN: Yeah. MR. BOYKIN: And if she objects, then she'll do it by -- MS. QUINN: Because I need proof. I need proof of what you're making. And you come in here -~ and I appreciate you brought this, but these are just paycheck stubs. This doesn't tell me -- for all I know, you're also cutting yourself a $5,000 on the side that nobody knows about. We know Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 44 how you did with the IRS, James. MR. HARDIN: How I what? How I what? MR. BOYKIN: You did with the IRS. MS. QUINN: I don't have -- MR. HARDIN: What does the IRS have to do with this? MR. BOYKIN: It's a matter that's setting up a planned desire to scheme, James. If you can -~ MR, HARDIN: Well, there is no scheme. MR. BOYKIN: -- get away with things MR. HARDIN: There is no scheme. MR. BOYKIN: Then how can we -- MR. HARDIN: I've got verified affidavits in here. MS. QUINN: Well, I understand you think it's a verified affidavit, but you -- MR. HARDIN: It just upsets me because it seems like everytime you get a chance, you gig me, you know. And that ain't right. MR. BOYKIN: She's -~ MR. HARDIN: That's not applicable here. Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 aL 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 45 MR. BOYKIN: Okay. Wait a minute. Let's not let this get out of control here. All she's asking for is what she's entitled to under the law. MS. QUINN: I have to do it. MR. BOYKIN: We're not trying to get you. This is not about you. This is about the information. MR, HARDIN: I'm just saying, if it was about the information, she shouldn't have brought up the IRS, That's not even relevant to this. MS. QUINN: It is relevant, James -- MR. HARDIN: It's not. MR. BOYKIN: -- because I can't trust what you give me. That's my concern, MR. BOYKIN: If she can't trust that you're giving her everything because of the IRS, then -- MS, QUINN: And see, you're showing that this is a verified statement. MR. HARDIN: Right. MS. QUINN: It's from you, James. MR. HARDIN: Right. MS. QUINN: TI need something from Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 qa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 46 somebody else, not you. I need bank records. I need -- MR. BOYKIN: See that's where your bank records would show -- MS. QUINN: -- Horizon. MR. BOYKIN: -~ the income coming in and the income going out. And that is up to you to that. The bank produces those. MS. QUINN: It's not something that you've produced, in other words. MR. HARDIN: Right. MR. BOYKIN: It's called independent evidence, is what it's called. MS. QUINN: And that's what needs to happen. I really need independent evidence. But I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to sit down with you and look and see what it is. And I'm willing to put in writing today what I want, when we're going to do this meeting. I don't have any problem with that. MR. HARDIN: All right. I mean, that I'm comfortable with as long as you tell me exactly what you're wanting, because I don't want to agree that I'm going to bring what you're asking for and then when I get there, you say, "That ain't what I Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-59317 10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 al 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 a7 wanted.” MS. QUINN: I'll write it down. 1 don't have any problem with that. MR. BOYKIN: Do you need to call your wife? MR. HARDIN: Yes, sir, I do. MR. BOYKIN: There is a phone right over there. (Inaudible.) Push the talk button and now dial your number. (Dialing phone.) MR. BOYKIN: Is it ringing? MR. HARDIN: Hey, this is James. I'm down here at the court and trying to set up an arrangement where they agree to lower the support and do a $35 or more payment to the court. And I told them I don't have that I would have to talk to you and see if I can get it from you, so that's all I'm calling for. MS. QUINN: James, did you file a (inaudible). MR. HARDIN: No. MR. BOYKIN: What did she say? MR. HARDIN: She didn't answer. MS. QUINN: What can you bring (inaudible)? Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 41 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 al 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 48 MR. HARDIN: All I have is bank records. That's I can bring that. I mean... MS. QUINN: This is what I've got. "Agreed meeting with James Hardin and Mary Quinn to determine whether modification of reduction of child support appropriate and to turn over all sources and amounts of income of James Harding for January to September 2003 and 2002 wW-2, 1099 and income tax return, which you don't have that. MR. HARDIN: I don't have that. MR. BOYKIN: When was the last tax return you filed. MR. HARDIN: 1994. MR. BOYKIN: You asked me what we mean about IRS, James. That's exactly it. I mean, we're all supposed to file returns. MR. HARDIN: All? There's a -- I disagree with that. MR. BOYKIN: Of course you (inaudible) . MR. HARDIN: When I met with them -- no. I don't owe them. I met with them and they said I don't owe them. MR. BOYKIN: You met with them and (inaudible). Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-593110 1 12 3) 14 15 16 17] 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AUDIOTAPED CONVERSATION TITLE IV-D HEARING OCTOBER 1, 2003 a9 MR. HARDIN: About my taxes, yeah. MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.) MR. HARDIN: Yeah. And I showed them -- MR. BOYKIN: Okay. You -~ MR. HARDIN: There is a difference between taxpayers and nontaxpayers. And they recognized the difference and left me alone. MR. BOYKIN: What -~ did you tell them you didn't make any money during that? MR. HARDIN: Absolutely not. I told them I wasn't engaged in a taxable activity. And -- MR. BOYKIN: (Inaudible.)? MR. HARDIN: No. You can work and still not be engaged in taxable activity. MR. BOYKIN: Where you working? MR. HARDIN: Was I working? Yeah. MR. BOYKIN: Did you make more than, what, 6 or $1200 a year? MR. HARDIN: Yeah. MR. BOYKIN: Then you have to file a return. MR. HARDIN: Not according to them. MR. BOYKIN: Does that mean you don't owe money, but you do have to file a return. — Dann Reporting, LLP (832) 338-5931