Allen Trial 1 May 14 2007

1
1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
2 WESTERN DIVISION
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Docket No. 05 CR 50082

)
4 Plaint i ff , ) Rockford, I l l inois
) Monday, May 14, 2007
5 v. ) 8:45 o ' clock a.m.
)
6 MONTRELL MC SWAIN, )
BRADFORD DODSON, and LEE )
7 ALLEN, )
)
8 Defendants. )
9 VOLUME 1
TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
10 BEFORE THE HONORABLE PHILIP G. REINHARD, and a jury
11 APPEARANCES:
12 For the Government : HON. PATRICK J. FITZGERALD

Uni ted States At torney
13 (308 West State St reet ,
Rockford, I l l inois 61101) by
14 MR. MICHAEL F. IASPARRO
MR. MARK T. KARNER
15 Assistant Uni ted States At torneys
16 For the Defendant McSwain: BYRD & TAYLOR

(308 W. State St reet , Sui te 450,
17 Rockford, I l l inois 61101) by
MR. MARK A. BYRD
18
For the Defendant Dodson: MR. DONALD P. SULLIVAN
19 (One Cour t Place, Sui te 101,
Rockford, I l l inois 61101)
20
For the Defendant Al len: MR. JAMES D. TUNICK
21 (53 W. Jackson St reet , Sui te 1362 ,
Chicago, I l l inois 60604)
22
Also Present : MR. STEPHEN SMITH
23 Special Agent , ATF
24 Cour t Repor ter : Mary T. Lindbloom

211 South Cour t St reet
25 Rockford, I l l inois 61101
(815) 987-4486
PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

2
1 (The fol lowing proceedings were had in open cour t , out of
2 the presence and hear ing of the jury: )
3 THE CLERK: 05 CR 50082 , U.S .A. v. McSwain, Dodson, and
4 Al len.
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' d l ike the lawyers to
6 approach the podium, please.
7 MR. IASPARRO: Good morning, your Honor . Michael
8 Iasparro and Mark Karner on behal f of the Uni ted States.
9 THE COURT: Good morning.
10 MR. TUNICK: Good morning, your Honor . James Tunick on
11 behal f of Lee Al len, who ' s present .
12 THE COURT: Good morning.
13 MR. BYRD: Good morning, your Honor . Mark Byrd on
14 behal f of Mont rel l McSwain , who ' s present si t t ing at the table .
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Good morning.
16 MR. SULLIVAN: Good morning, your Honor . Don Sul l ivan
17 on behal f of Bradford Dodson, who is also present .
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . This case is scheduled to go to
19 t r ial this morning. Is there any change of plea for any of the
20 defendants at this t ime?
21 MR. BYRD: Not on behal f of Mr . McSwain, Judge.
22 MR. SULLIVAN: No. Mr . Dodson persists in his
23 innocence.
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The last t ime I was in cour t ,
25 the government had indicated that i t was f i l ing a Sect ion 851

3
1 not ice; is that correct?
2 MR. IASPARRO: And we have, as to both Mr . McSwain and
3 Mr . Dodson, Judge.
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And you ' ve explained to both of
5 them the effect of that not ice?
6 MR. BYRD: Your Honor , we ' ve talked about that , yes.
7 MR. SULLIVAN: I did discuss i t . If I could have a
8 moment to ver i fy that he understood that .
9 THE COURT: Wel l , i t would be i f cer tain quant i t ies are
10 found, i t would be based upon a pr ior convict ion that would
11 increase the mandatory minimum to 20 years . Is that accurate,
12 Mr . Iasparro?
13 MR. IASPARRO: For Count 1, that ' s correct , Judge.
14 MR. BYRD: If we could have a moment .
15 THE COURT: Go ahead.
16 MR. TUNICK: Judge, whi le they ' re taking a moment wi th
17 thei r cl ients, can I raise an issue?
18 THE COURT: You may.
19 MR. TUNICK: Thank you , Judge. Wel l , last night going
20 over the t ranscr ipts in detai l , I not iced some problems, and I ' d
21 l ike to raise i t wi th the cour t . I ' m not sure how you want to
22 handle this . There ' s one t ranscr ipt in par t icular that i t ' s
23 clear that the words are incorrect , and they ' re impor tant words,
24 and I can ident i fy the exact t ranscr ipt and the exact words. I
25 can show i t to the government . I think they would agree that

4
1 the t ranscr ipt is incorrect that they provided me. But the
2 second one is is that there ' s a conversat ion that ' s cl ip number
3 32 wi th --
4 THE COURT: I don ' t have any of this. You know that .
5 MR. TUNICK: I understand, Judge. And i t has Lee Al len
6 on the top. He doesn ' t par t icipate in this conversat ion at al l ,
7 Judge. He ' s not -- there ' s no words at t r ibuted to him in the
8 t ranscr ipt i tsel f , and the reason for that is because he
9 actual ly leaves the room. He ' s on there at the beginning. He
10 leaves the room, and then others engage in conversat ion about
11 drugs.
12 Now, he ' s on the top of the t ranscr ipts, which might
13 indicate to the jury that he was present for this conversat ion .
14 So, I object to -- I know the government wants to use this cl ip
15 because i t shows a very, very shor t per iod of t ime of him
16 working on the door . He leaves the room. He ' s not present for
17 the conversat ion that occurs af ter that , and I don ' t want the
18 jury to bel ieve that he was going back, and they get these in
19 the jury room or things of that sor t , and they say, "Wel l , gee .
20 He was present for this conversat ion when they were never
21 talking about drugs." So, I can ident i fy par t icular words, and
22 also I have a problem wi th this par t icular t ranscr ipt , Judge.
23 THE COURT: Fi rst , as to the words, you can confer wi th
24 Mr . Iasparro, and there ' s a way to remedy that . If Mr . Iasparro
25 agrees that the words are inaccurate, you can delete i t . If

5
1 there ' s a di fference as you interpret the words and the person
2 who t ranscr ibed i t interprets i t , then you ' re al lowed to present
3 that , and the jury is inst ructed , and I ' l l inst ruct them at the
4 t ime they hear the t ranscr ipt or at the t ime that they read the
5 t ranscr ipt that the words that they hear cont rol and that the
6 t ranscr ipts wi l l not be admi t ted as evidence. I do not admi t
7 them. They are just marked as an exhibi t .
8 As to the second issue, I think that should be -- i f
9 i t ' s agreed that he lef t the room, that ' s one thing. If i t ' s
10 not agreed that he lef t the room, that he was present , the top
11 of the t ranscr ipt -- I don ' t think the top of the t ranscr ipt
12 means anything, anyway, what the government puts down.
13 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, two points. Fi rst , defense
14 counsel has had draf t t ranscr ipts for several weeks. This is
15 the f i rst we ' ve heard of any object ions to any t ranscr ipts. As
16 to the second point --
17 THE COURT: Wel l , he ' s raised them now . I t rust you
18 wi l l somet ime before they ' re played go over i t and ei ther
19 correct the si tuat ion or inform me that there ' s a di fference of
20 opinion as to the reading.
21 MR. IASPARRO: Yes, Judge. As to the second issue, at
22 the top of each t ranscr ipt , Agent Smi th, who f inal ized the
23 t ranscr ipts , ident i f ied who the par t icipants are and , by
24 par t icipants, persons in the room at the t ime that that video
25 cl ip was recorded. At the beginning of this video cl ip -- i t

6
1 happens to be what we ' re cal l ing cl ip 32 -- Lee Al len is there .
2 He does leave the room. That ' s something that Mr . Tunick
3 clear ly can br ing out on cross examinat ion i f he wants, but
4 Bradford Dodson is also a par ty to the conversat ion and engages
5 in conversat ion dur ing that video cl ip. So, i t ' s clear ly
6 relevant .
7 THE COURT: Wel l , I don ' t know that the heading -- the
8 heading is not of any evident iary value in the sense of
9 t ranslat ing the words that were spoken. If that issue is going
10 to become cr i t ical , I want to look at the t ranscr ipt , and I may
11 say the heading is not to be considered, and i t ' s not . You
12 understand that .
13 MR. IASPARRO: I do understand that , Judge. It ' s
14 simply included as an aid to the cour t and the jury, number one,
15 and also to ident i fy who the par t icipants are and to show the
16 cour t why these par t icular video cl ips and t ranscr ipts are
17 relevant as to who the par t icipants are.
18 THE COURT: I ' m not sure -- I know why you ' ve got i t
19 there, but i f there ' s going to be a dispute, t ranscr ipts are to
20 aid in understanding the words that are spoken, and i f there ' s a
21 dispute as to who ' s present , then that is determined , also, by
22 the video. So, I may st r ike that . I may not . We ' l l see what
23 happens.
24 MR. IASPARRO: Thank you, Judge.
25 MR. TUNICK: I think that ' s i t for now .

7
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight .
2 MR. KARNER: I have a smal l mat ter , Judge.
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 MR. KARNER: I see that counsel has a laptop on the
5 table. I t ' s not a big thing, but I ' d ask that none of the
6 content of the desktop be displayed to the jury.
7 THE COURT: Are you going to use that?
8 MR. TUNICK: Yes, and i t ' s -- I don ' t know what
9 content -- there ' s a screen saver wi th a picture of my new baby,
10 but I don ' t think that ' s going to prejudice the jury.
11 THE COURT: Wel l , I don ' t want the jury to see what
12 you ' re doing.
13 MR. TUNICK: Judge, I was actual ly si t t ing over there .
14 I was told by the Marshals . I ' m in the corner . I would never
15 intend to inf luence the jury l ike that .
16 THE COURT: That ' s f ine.
17 MR. KARNER: That ' s al l I ' m asking is that the picture
18 of the baby not be displayed to the jurors .
19 THE COURT: I don ' t know -- f i rst of al l , don ' t use
20 i t -- you ' re not going to use i t dur ing jury select ion process .
21 MR. TUNICK: Not dur ing jury select ion .
22 THE COURT: Because jurors wi l l be seated out so that
23 they could see i t . So, i f you put i t on the screen saver
24 wi thout the picture of your chi ld.
25 MR. TUNICK: Some ugly pictures of me, too.

8
2 MR. TUNICK: No problem. That is not a problem.
3 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Fine.
4 Now, you have the correct seat ing arrangements. I t was
5 my understanding that somebody else was going to be here for one
6 of the other defendants. I think she ' s in the -- one of the
7 paralegals.
8 MR. IASPARRO: I bel ieve Mr . Sul l ivan ' s paralegal is in
9 the second row, Judge .
10 THE COURT: You can have a seat . Is she going to
11 assist you dur ing the t r ial?
12 MR. SULLIVAN: I bel ieve so, your Honor . What I did
13 not do is submi t her name on Thursday af ternoon .
14 THE COURT: Wel l , I need her name . Just a minute.
15 What is her name?
16 MR. SULLIVAN: Shi rel le, S-h- i -r-e- l - l -e, Malone ,
17 M-a- l -o-n-e .
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Is your paralegal here?
19 MR. IASPARRO: Ms . Seck is here, Judge . She wi l l be
20 here just to be int roduced .
21 THE COURT: Okay. I see her .
22 Okay. Now, Mr . Sul l ivan, have you had an oppor tuni ty
23 to talk wi th your cl ient , and does your cl ient wish to persist
24 in his plea of not gui l ty and go to t r ial? Have him step
25 forward.

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1 Did you hear my quest ion? You have a r ight to go to
2 t r ial . I ' m just making sure that that ' s what you want to do.
3 Is that what you choose to do is go to t r ial today?
4 DEFENDANT DODSON: Yes, your Honor .
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You may be seated. And your
6 paralegal may be seated i f you can -- i f the Marshals would f ind
7 a seat for her . Do you want her at counsel table?
8 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, i f we can have that oppor tuni ty.
9 She may not spend al l of the t ime there, but i f we --
10 THE COURT: Step forward, please. See i f the Marshal
11 can f ind a convenient place for her .
12 Mr . Byrd.
13 MR. BYRD: Yes, si r .
14 THE COURT: Do you want to step forward, Mr . McSwain?
15 You ' ve heard me indicate that the government f i led a mot ion last
16 week under -- or a not ice that would increase the penal t ies i f
17 you are found gui l ty. Is that -- you understand that?
18 DEFENDANT MC SWAIN: Yes, si r .
19 THE COURT: Do you wish to go to t r ial?
20 DEFENDANT MC SWAIN: Yes, si r .
21 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' ve had a conversat ion wi th
22 him; is that correct?
23 MR. BYRD: I have , your Honor .
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You may be seated.
25 I ' l l need the lawyers back up here. Mr . Byrd,

10
1 Mr . Tunick, and Mr . Sul l ivan, do you want to step forward ,
2 please? I ' l l address you, Mr . Sul l ivan. There was an
3 indicat ion at the f inal pret r ial conference, I gave you an
4 oppor tuni ty on the two defenses that you had stated that you
5 wanted to present and which I prel iminar i ly had said that you ' ve
6 not made a suff icient offer of proof that those defenses would
7 be avai lable. Is there any addi t ional offer of proof that you
8 have at this t ime?
9 MR. SULLIVAN: No, your Honor .
10 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Then the cour t wi l l make i ts
11 rul ing f inal based upon the offers that were made by the
12 government and by the defendant Dodson. I wi l l f ind that there
13 would not be suff icient proofs to raise a publ ic author i ty
14 defense or a coercion defense. I guess i f facts come out , that
15 could always change, but at least as to your opening statement
16 or anything l ike that , you may not ment ion those as being a
17 defense to the case. Do you understand?
18 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, your Honor .
19 THE COURT: There was at least another mot ion that was
20 made by the defendant Dodson, and that has to do wi th a
21 par t icular shoot ing, and as I recal l -- and I ' m t rying to f ind
22 that mot ion -- that has to do wi th the shoot ing that took place
23 dur ing the course of this conspi racy, and the government would
24 expect to offer proofs that the defendant par t icipated,
25 Defendant Dodson par t icipated in that shoot ing, and that that

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1 shows one way in which they accompl ished the object ive of the
2 conspi racy, the conspi racy being to dist r ibute or possess wi th
3 intent to dist r ibute heroin and cocaine.
4 The government ' s f i led a response . I ' ve al ready
5 indicated that I think there is a basis for int roducing
6 membership in a gang, and that ' s because that is di rect ly
7 l inked , I think, to the mot ive for commi t t ing the conspi racy.
8 So, gang membership wi l l be admi t ted.
9 As to the issue of this defendant , Dodson, shoot ing
10 dur ing the course of the conspi racy someone else, I bel ieve that
11 is relevant . Fi rst of al l , since i t takes place dur ing the
12 course of the conspi racy, i t is not 404(b) evidence. Secondly,
13 i t ' s analyzed under 403, and I ' ve got to determine whether
14 there ' s such a prejudicial effect that I should in some way not
15 admi t relevant evidence or l imi t i t .
16 I ' ve determined that I wi l l al low evidence of that
17 shoot ing, but I ' m going to l imi t i t , Mr . Iasparro. I wi l l al low
18 you to -- apparent ly, you ' re going to have wi tnesses who are
19 codefendants who have pled gui l ty who would test i fy to
20 conversat ions that they had wi th Dodson that would indicate that
21 he commi t ted that act ; is that accurate?
22 MR. IASPARRO: That is , Judge.
23 THE COURT: You also had indicated in your response
24 that you thought you ' d have pol ice off icers test i fy to the
25 actual invest igat ion of that shoot ing; is that accurate?

12
1 MR. IASPARRO: Just to the cr ime scene i tsel f , Judge,
2 to establ ish that i t happened.
3 THE COURT: I ' m going to al low one off icer to test i fy,
4 and that off icer may test i fy that on a cer tain date they
5 invest igated a shoot ing and who the vict im was, and I guess they
6 can int roduce the extent of the injury.
7 MR. IASPARRO: That ' s f ine, Judge .
8 THE COURT: That ' s i t . I ' m not going to t ry a
9 mini - t r ial on that event .
10 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, there is also a video cl ip where
11 Mr . Dodson admi ts to the shoot ing, says that he threw a par ty at
12 the McDonald ' s. The cooperat ing codefendants wi l l test i fy to
13 what a par ty is. I t ' s a shoot ing.
14 THE COURT: I wi l l al low statements, as I said, that he
15 made.
16 MR. IASPARRO: Thank you.
17 MR. TUNICK: Judge, how do you plan on deal ing wi th
18 that wi th respect to Mr . Al len? Because, as you know, i t ' s not
19 relevant as to Mr . Al len. He wasn ' t a par ty. I t predates his
20 involvement . I t ' s not relevant that he was an aider and
21 abet tor .
22 THE COURT: If I neglect to say something, you can r ise
23 and say, "I ask the cour t to admonish the jury that this
24 evidence is not relevant to Mr . Al len ," and I wi l l give that
25 inst ruct ion . But I ' l l t ry to do that as much as I can.

13
1 MR. BYRD: Judge, I think that also would apply to
2 Mr . McSwain . I don ' t bel ieve there ' s any evidence that he took
3 par t in that shoot ing. I don ' t bel ieve that he was even
4 present .
5 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, there is one video cl ip where
6 Mr . McSwain is talking to two cooperat ing codefendants, Bobby
7 Harr is and Dupree Turner , about the shoot ing and has pret ty
8 extensive knowledge about what happened.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , he might have got ten i t af ter the
10 fact . He has to have reason to bel ieve that that might occur .
11 Again, I think we ' re get t ing in on a col lateral issue, and I
12 want to be very careful of i t . You ' ve also -- so, I may give
13 that inst ruct ion . I ' ve just got to see how the evidence comes
14 in. I think the government ought to be careful on that .
15 The other issue, is there some other shoot ing that you
16 indicated that you may t ry to show? And from my reading of your
17 offer , i t did not look l ike any of the three defendants
18 par t icipated in that .
19 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, we do not intend to int roduce
20 test imony from any off icers about two shoot ings on Underwood
21 St reet . On August 9th and August 11th, 2005, there were two
22 shoot ings that happened in front of one of the gang ' s drug
23 houses on Underwood st reet wi th a r ival gang. There are a
24 signi f icant number of conversat ions that happened at 1023
25 Kishwaukee, which was the si te of the video and audio overhear ,

14
1 involving those who were involved in that shoot ing. Mr . Dodson,
2 Mr . McSwain , they clear ly had knowledge of i t . Some of those
3 conversat ions also relate to drug t raff icking and wi l l be
4 presented here. They do touch on the Underwood shoot ing to a
5 cer tain extent . We would agree that nei ther Mr . Dodson or
6 Mr . McSwain were present at ei ther of those shoot ings.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , I wi l l -- those conversat ions, is i t
8 on the tape that otherwise you ' re seeking to admi t?
9 MR. IASPARRO: Yes, Judge.
10 THE COURT: Wel l , I may st r ike i t or I may l imi t i t in
11 some way.
12 MR. IASPARRO: I understand.
13 THE COURT: Any other quest ions before we star t? I
14 hope I ' ve cleared up everything.
15 MR. BYRD: No, your Honor .
16 MR. SULLIVAN: No quest ions.
17 THE COURT: We ' re going to get the jury down here, i f
18 they are ready, and we won ' t take a break ' t i l about 10:30. We
19 probably wi l l not get to -- I ' l l probably get through about
20 seven jurors or so, but we ' l l see how that leaves us . So, we
21 won ' t take a break before that .
22 MR. TUNICK: Do you have an ext ra copy of the cour t ' s
23 quest ions? I know i t was on the websi te.
24 THE COURT: I t ' s on the websi te. I personal ly don ' t
25 have an ext ra copy, except my own copy. The lawyers may have

15
1 that .
2 MR. TUNICK: Thank you .
3 THE COURT: Are the jurors ready?
4 THE COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Yes, si r .
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Get the jurors .
6 (The fol lowing proceedings were had in open cour t , in the
7 presence and hear ing of the jury: )
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Wi l l the clerk cal l the case,
9 please?
10 THE CLERK: 05 CR 50082 , U.S .A. v. Mont rel l McSwain,
11 Bradford Dodson, and Lee Al len.
12 THE COURT: Is the government ready to proceed?
13 MR. IASPARRO: The government is ready, Judge.
14 THE COURT: Are the defendants ready?
15 MR. BYRD: Yes, your Honor .
16 MR. TUNICK: Yes, your Honor .
17 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes.
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Thank you .
19 Good morning. I ' m Judge Phi l Reinhard . I ' l l be
20 presiding in the case that has been cal led for t r ial . We
21 appreciate al l of you being here . I know some of you were here
22 when I arr ived at about 7:30, and when we have as many jurors as
23 we have today, i t gets a l i t t le congested, but I appreciate the
24 fact that you were here prompt ly, and we have 72 jurors for this
25 case.

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1 The f i rst par t of this proceeding wi l l be the select ion
2 of a jury, and I ask quest ions of al l the jurors, and my
3 quest ions are designed to f ind out a l i t t le about you and to see
4 whether this is a case that you would be an appropr iate member
5 of the jury.
6 I need t ruthful answers to my quest ions, and I always
7 ask a quest ion "Is there anything else that you should tel l me
8 as i t may relate to your abi l i ty to serve as a fai r and
9 impar t ial juror , " and i f there is something in the back of your
10 mind, that ' s the t ime to answer i t . So, I do need you to be
11 candid wi th the cour t , and we ' l l proceed.
12 At this t ime I ' m going to ask al l of you to r ise and
13 raise your r ight hands. You wi l l take an oath to tel l me
14 t ruthful answers . Please raise your r ight hands.
15 (Jury panel duly sworn . )
16 THE COURT: Thank you. I hope you are able to hear me.
17 I real ize we ' ve got jurors in the back rows. Are there any
18 jurors who are having a di ff icul t t ime at least hear ing me at
19 this t ime? Yes, si r . Are you hard of hear ing?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am. I have t inni tus, about
21 30 percent .
22 THE COURT: Why don ' t you take a seat in the front row.
23 Somebody else raised thei r hand.
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, I have t rouble hear ing.
25 THE COURT: Have you heard me so far?

17
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.
2 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Eventual ly i f somebody wi th a
3 hear ing problem is chosen as a juror , you ' l l be seated a lot
4 closer to me, but I wi l l quest ion you fur ther at a later point
5 i f you ' re cal led as a juror just to f ind out the extent of your
6 hear ing problem.
7 You have heard that this case has been cal led for
8 t r ial . This is a cr iminal case. There are three defendants in
9 this case. The government has brought this case. I ' m going to
10 give you a shor t statement of the case, and then I ' m going to
11 int roduce those people who are the par t icipants who are seated
12 at counsel table .
13 The defendants Mont rel l McSwain and Bradford Dodson are
14 both charged wi th conspi racy to dist r ibute and possess wi th
15 intent to dist r ibute more than one ki logram of heroin and more
16 than 50 grams of cocaine base, which is commonly referred to as
17 crack cocaine. The defendant Lee Al len is charged wi th aiding
18 and abet t ing that conspi racy. I wi l l later inst ruct you once
19 you ' re seated as a juror on the elements of what a conspi racy is
20 and also what aiding and abet t ing a conspi racy is.
21 The defendant McSwain is also charged wi th two counts
22 of possession of a f i rearm in fur therance of a drug t raff icking
23 cr ime, and the defendant Dodson is also charged wi th three
24 counts of possession of a f i rearm in fur therance of a drug
25 t raff icking cr ime. Al l defendants have pled not gui l ty to each

18
1 count against them.
2 The government is represented -- and these people wi l l
3 stand to ident i fy themselves -- by prosecutor Assistant U .S.
4 At torney Michael Iasparro.
5 MR. IASPARRO: Good morning.
6 THE COURT: And Assistant U .S. At torney Mark Karner .
7 MR. KARNER: Good morning.
8 THE COURT: Seated at counsel table is Steve Smi th, a
9 special agent wi th the Bureau of Alcohol , Tobacco, Fi rearms &
10 Explosives. And Lisa Seck is a paralegal who is wi th the
11 U .S. At torney ' s Off ice, and she wi l l be here not al l the t ime,
12 but somet imes to help them wi th some of the elect ronic equipment
13 that wi l l be used.
14 The defendants in the case are as fol lows, and they are
15 represented by the fol lowing at torneys. Mark Byrd is an
16 at torney.
17 MR. BYRD: Good morning.
18 THE COURT: He represents Mont rel l McSwain.
19 DEFENDANT MC SWAIN: Good morning.
20 THE COURT: Donald Sul l ivan is an at torney, and he
21 represents Bradford Dodson .
22 MR. SULLIVAN: Good morning.
23 DEFENDANT DODSON: Good morning.
24 THE COURT: Mr . Sul l ivan is assisted by his paralegal ,
25 Shi rel le Malone.

19
1 MS . MALONE: Good morning.
2 THE COURT: And the last at torney is Mr . James Tunick .
3 MR. TUNICK: Good morning, ladies and gent lemen.
4 THE COURT: And he represents the defendant Lee Al len .
5 DEFENDANT ALLEN: Good morning.
6 THE COURT: I ' m going to go over a few recognized
7 pr inciples of cr iminal law that I want you to be aware of at
8 this t ime. The defendants are charged in an indictment . The
9 indictment is the formal method by which a defendant is charged.
10 I t is not any evidence of a defendant ' s gui l t . I t is simply the
11 way in which a case is brought before the cour t and ul t imately a
12 jury.
13 Each defendant has pled not gui l ty to al l the counts
14 against them. Under the law each defendant is presumed to be
15 innocent of the charge against him. This presumpt ion stays wi th
16 the defendants throughout the ent i re case, and i t is not
17 overcome unless you have heard evidence from the government that
18 proves that the defendant is gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt .
19 The government has the sole burden of proving the gui l t
20 of a defendant . A defendant does not have to offer any
21 evidence. A defendant may rely on the presumpt ion of innocence,
22 and a defendant need not test i fy, and that fact that he does not
23 test i fy may not be considered by you in arr iving at your
24 verdict . A defendant may rely on that presumpt ion of innocence.
25 Each defendant ' s case is to be judged separately. So,

20
1 from t ime to t ime throughout the course of the t r ial , I wi l l
2 give you what we cal l admoni t ions or inst ruct ions that this
3 evidence may be appl icable to a cer tain defendant or defendants,
4 but not appl icable to another . So, remember , each defendant
5 must be judged separately, as must each count . Cer tain
6 defendants, McSwain and Dodson, have several counts that are
7 charged in this case. You must give separate considerat ion and
8 the government has to prove each count beyond a reasonable
9 doubt .
10 You are the sole judges of fact in this case. I wi l l
11 be rul ing on quest ions of law, but nothing I say or do dur ing
12 the course of the proceedings is intended to give you any idea
13 as to what I feel about the facts because i t ' s not mater ial .
14 I t ' s what you people conclude from the facts. And you wi l l ,
15 therefore, judge what we cal l the credibi l i ty of wi tnesses, and
16 that is your funct ion , and you may choose to bel ieve al l of a
17 wi tness ' test imony, some of a wi tness ' test imony, or none of a
18 wi tness ' test imony. I wi l l give you inst ruct ions at the end of
19 the case and throughout the case as to your funct ion in judging
20 the credibi l i ty of the wi tnesses .
21 I have had the clerk provide you wi th a l ist of
22 possible wi tnesses. Have you al l received that? Al l r ight . I
23 see you ' ve nodded. You must read that . I hope you ' ve read i t
24 by now because that gives you a l ist of potent ial wi tnesses. It
25 does not mean that these people wi l l test i fy, but the reason for

21
1 the l ist is that you now can look at i t and determine whether
2 you ' re acquainted wi th any of these potent ial wi tnesses. That
3 does not el iminate you from being a juror , but I wi l l ask you
4 quest ions about that i f you are acquainted wi th any of the
5 wi tnesses.
6 Some of you may have served as a juror before. You may
7 cont inue -- that ' s not any prohibi t ion on serving in this case .
8 Just remember you must fol low the inst ruct ions of law that I
9 give you in this case .
10 Now, I wi l l ask you quest ions about your background
11 when you ' re cal led to the jury box. I t wi l l be fami ly, i t wi l l
12 be employment , and i t wi l l be cer tain other quest ions that I
13 think are relevant to the case. Please give me t ruthful
14 answers. I ' m not t rying to pry into your personal affai rs, but
15 that ' s the only way in which I and the lawyers are able to in
16 this shor t span determine whether you ' re sui ted to be a juror in
17 this case. The fact that somebody ' s excused as a juror , don ' t
18 take that as a personal insul t or that there ' s something wrong
19 wi th you. I t ' s just that for some reason the cour t and the
20 lawyers have fel t that i t would be bet ter to have somebody else
21 serve rather than you .
22 This case is scheduled to go al l week and into next
23 week. From what the lawyers have told me, this case wi l l end on
24 Tuesday of next week. I ' m going to just play i t safe and ask
25 you to be avai lable into Wednesday. I think I ' l l f inish i t

22
1 maybe on Monday. Maybe we ' l l f inish i t on Fr iday. But at the
2 outside, I ' m going to need jurors who can serve through next
3 Wednesday.
4 What wi l l happen in a few minutes is that I ' m going to
5 ask al l of you some general quest ions , and that way some of you
6 wi l l be excused, perhaps, at that t ime. Then the clerk wi l l
7 cal l twelve jurors to the jury box. I wi l l quest ion them
8 individual ly. Some wi l l be excused, and others of you wi l l be
9 replacing them. Eventual ly, we wi l l have twelve jurors. And
10 we ' re going to pick two al ternates. Those al ternates must be
11 here and consider the case as i f they were going to be the f inal
12 jurors because somet imes we need to replace a juror .
13 Please pay at tent ion when I ' m asking these quest ions of
14 the jurors in the box because i t wi l l readi ly make you
15 understand i f you take a seat that there may be something that
16 I ' l l ask you that you can readi ly volunteer .
17 I am going to ask you a ser ies of general quest ions
18 now. I want f inal ly, before I say that , to tel l you that we
19 appreciate you being here. That as a ci t izen, i t ' s real ly an
20 obl igat ion and a r ight that you have to be a juror , to si t in
21 judgment on your fel low ci t izens . This is an impor tant
22 funct ion, and don ' t t ry to get out of i t . We al l may wish we
23 were someplace else today, but I ' ve found that the jurors who
24 have ul t imately served on cases feel that this has been a very
25 rewarding exper ience. So, I recognize that I ' l l have some

23
1 excuses at a later point , but don ' t t ry to just avoid service.
2 I ' m going to ask al l of you a ser ies of quest ions, and
3 i f you have an aff i rmat ive answer , please stand , ident i fy
4 yoursel f , we ' l l get a microphone over there, and you can explain
5 your answer .
6 Now, I have int roduced the people at counsel table.
7 The at torneys, the paralegals, and the defendants. Is there
8 anyone who is acquainted wi th them or thei r fami l ies? If so,
9 please stand. Al l r ight . Your name, please.
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: El len Von Haden.
11 THE COURT: What ' s the last name?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Von Haden.
13 THE COURT: And where are you from?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Poplar Grove.
15 THE COURT: Who are you acquainted wi th?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I know Mr . Sul l ivan.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And what ' s the nature of
18 your --
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We hi red him to do a case for us.
20 THE COURT: How long ago?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About a year .
22 THE COURT: Is he st i l l your at torney --
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.
24 THE COURT: -- on that mat ter?

24
1 THE COURT: Was that the only occasion?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right .
3 THE COURT: Was that a civi l or a cr iminal mat ter?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Civi l , I think. Yeah.
5 THE COURT: Were you acquainted wi th him pr ior to that?
7 THE COURT: And other than that relat ionship, have you
8 ever had a social relat ionship wi th him?
10 THE COURT: Wi thout going into that legal mat ter , do
11 you feel that your associat ion wi th him is such that you would
12 be consider ing that i f you were selected as a juror and,
13 therefore, consider ing something that real ly is improper?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would hope not .
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' ve used the word hope, and
16 that ' s why I ' l l probe that a l i t t le bi t . I want to make sure
17 that when he represented you, was there anything that was so
18 favorable or so unfavorable that i t would be di ff icul t for you
19 to be fai r to the government?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: How about the quest ions i f would I
21 hi re him again? No.
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Then does that mean that -- is
23 there anything that arose out of that relat ionship that would
24 spi l l over and cause you in some way to use those facts in that
25 relat ionship as i t relates to this case? You said you hoped

25
1 not --
3 THE COURT: -- but I ' ve got to probe a l i t t le fur ther .
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: You want a yes/no answer . You
5 would l ike a yes/no answer .
6 THE COURT: Yes. I don ' t need an explanat ion.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I guess i f there ' s a doubt , I
8 should say yes.
9 THE COURT: I ' m going to excuse you.
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
11 THE COURT: But I want to thank you. Is there anyone
12 else?
13 (No response . )
14 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Nobody else has stood. And I ' m
15 labor ing under a l i t t le cold that I have.
16 Are there any of you that af ter reading the l ist of
17 potent ial wi tnesses are acquainted wi th any of those persons?
18 If so, please stand. Al l r ight . We ' l l star t wi th the front
19 row. We ' re get t ing you a microphone. Or the second row, the
20 gent leman. Your name and where you ' re from.
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: James McKinley from Byron.
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Detect ives John Richardson and Dan
24 Ivancich.
25 THE COURT: How are you acquainted wi th them?

26
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Richardson is a neighbor , and then
2 Ivancich, I t reated his wi fe -- or his mother .
3 THE COURT: And for what? Are you a physician?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a physical therapist .
5 THE COURT: Okay. Are you personal ly acquainted wi th
6 him or just his mother?
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . So, I take i t you ' re just
9 acquainted wi th his mother .
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. I ' ve met him too, as wel l .
11 I ' m sorry. Yes.
12 THE COURT: You ' ve met him.
14 THE COURT: As far as Richardson, did you say he was a
15 neighbor?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Neighbor .
17 THE COURT: How long have you known him?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Two years.
19 THE COURT: Next door or just down the st reet or what?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Down the st reet .
21 THE COURT: Do you have a social relat ionship wi th him?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have.
23 THE COURT: He ' s been in your house?
25 THE COURT: You ' ve been in his house?

27
2 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , are you able to
3 independent ly judge his test imony i f he test i f ies in this case
4 based upon not a fr iendship or anything else that you ' ve
5 exper ienced wi th him?
7 THE COURT: You feel that i t would inf luence you?
9 THE COURT: I ' l l excuse you .
10 Your name, si r .
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Aaron Hegge.
12 THE COURT: Where are you from?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Byron. I l ive r ight across the
14 st reet from Jamie.
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . So, you know Mr . Richardson, as
16 wel l .
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I know John very wel l . I buy
18 Gi r l Scout cookies from his daughter .
19 THE COURT: Al l r ight . What ' s your answer to my
20 quest ion? Do you feel that you could judge this case and not
21 consider the fact you know him?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you.
25 THE COURT: Your name.

28
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Toni Gar land.
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m from Ster l ing.
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The Gal lent ines. Laur ie
6 Gal lent ine.
7 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And I ' m not fami l iar wi th who
8 these wi tnesses are. Do you know whether she ' s a pol ice
9 off icer?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t think so.
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And what ' s the nature of your
12 acquaintanceship?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I went to high school wi th Laur ie
14 Gal lent ine, and I know him just to see him, Dean Gal lent ine. I
15 know who he is.
16 THE COURT: And who ' s on the wi tness l ist? Is i t --
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Both.
18 THE COURT: Both of them are; is that correct?
20 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The fact that you know Laur ie ,
21 is that , again, going to affect you? If you were asked to judge
22 this case, can you judge i t on the facts when you hear test imony
23 rather than some background that you know someone?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t think so. I don ' t know. I
25 probably could. I don ' t know.

29
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Wel l , what i t takes is that you
2 may have had a relat ionship wi th her in high school . Have you
3 had one since then?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. Wel l , I haven ' t seen her for
5 probably ten years.
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . People change. Condi t ions
7 change . Al l I ' m asking is i f she were to test i fy, you ' re going
8 to have to judge her credibi l i ty, and can you do that as i f you
9 didn ' t know her?
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Then I ' m going to excuse you.
13 THE COURT: Thank you. Is there anyone else that ' s
14 acquainted wi th -- I have two in the back. I ' m sorry. Al l
15 r ight . Your name, please.
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Jonna Adolphson.
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rockford.
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Off icer Mat t Gibbons.
21 THE COURT: How are you acquainted wi th him?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s a member at the club that I
23 work at .
24 THE COURT: Do you see him regular ly?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.

30
1 THE COURT: What club is that?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Universi ty Club.
3 THE COURT: And have you had any relat ionship wi th him
4 other than in that club?
6 THE COURT: Do you feel that based on what you ' ve told
7 me that you could judge -- i f he test i f ies , you could judge his
8 test imony l ike you would anyone else that you wouldn ' t know?
10 THE COURT: And you ' re convinced of that?
12 THE COURT: Thank you.
13 Your name, please .
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Kathryn Chamber lain.
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m not even sure that I am.
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Detect ive Pat r ick Gi rardi . I 'm a
21 nurse, and I bel ieve he has recent ly come into our pract ice, but
22 I don ' t even know i f i t ' s the same person.
23 THE COURT: Does i t mat ter? In other words , i f you
24 haven ' t met the person, should you recognize -- should he
25 test i fy and should you recognize him as coming into your

31
1 pract ice, would that make any di fference?
3 THE COURT: You ' d be able to judge his test imony l ike
4 you would any other wi tness?
6 THE COURT: And the fact that he might be a cl ient of
7 the place where you work at , there ' s no economic si tuat ion
8 that ' s going to -- you would feel pressured to accept his
9 test imony?
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That ' s al l .
12 I ' ve read you a shor t statement about this case.
13 Anybody heard of i t or know anything about i t? If so, raise
14 your hand.
15 (No response . )
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m not real ly get t ing hal f of
18 this. I have a hear ing aid, but --
19 THE COURT: What is your name again?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rober t Hooper .
21 THE COURT: I ' m going to excuse you. I ' l l excuse you .
22 If you haven ' t heard hal f , that ' s a problem.
23 This is a cr iminal case . I ' m going to go over those
24 pr inciples of law that I ' ve al ready talked to you about . The
25 defendant is presumed innocent throughout the ent i re t r ial . He

32
1 does not have to prove anything or offer any evidence or
2 test i fy. The indictment is not any evidence of gui l t nor is his
3 arrest . The government must prove him gui l ty, each defendant ,
4 beyond a reasonable doubt . You perform your duty as a juror
5 whether you return a gui l ty or not gui l ty verdict .
6 Does anyone disagree wi th any of those pr inciples or
7 not understand them? If so, please stand.
8 (No response . )
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Nobody has stood.
10 Does any juror have any physical condi t ion which would
11 prevent you from your abi l i ty to serve as a juror? And I ' m
12 talking about hear ing or some other medical reason why you can ' t
13 si t here for an hour and a hal f at a t ime. Then we take a
14 recess . Or some ai lment of that type . Yes, si r . Your name.
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ver lan Smi th.
18 THE COURT: What ' s your quest ion?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m good for about two hours . Then
20 I have to get up and go.
21 THE COURT: We won ' t be here for more than two hours.
23 THE COURT: You remind me. And i f you ' re selected as a
24 juror and we go -- I let them go over two hours , you raise your
25 hand. You ' d do that?

33
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Al l r ight .
2 THE COURT: Yes, si r . Your name.
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Jay Jonagan. I ' m having a hard
4 t ime hear ing you when you back away from the mike. When you ' re
5 up in front of i t , I ' m okay, but when you kind of get away from
6 i t , I ' m having a l i t t le t rouble.
7 THE COURT: Have you got ten the substance of what I ' ve
8 said so far?
10 THE COURT: Al l r ight . If you ' re here , we ' l l see i f we
11 can get you a spot --
13 THE COURT: -- that you ' d be able to -- do you have
14 hear ing in one ear problem?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, both .
16 THE COURT: Both of them. Al l r ight .
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have r inging in the ears and
18 about a 30 percent loss.
19 THE COURT: I understand. I ' l l quest ion you fur ther .
20 Yes, ma ' am. Your name.
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mar ie Zammuto. And I wear hear ing
22 aids. I can hear you qui te clear ly, but somet imes i t kind of
23 fades away.
24 THE COURT: Just remind me of that i f you ' re cal led up
25 to the jury box, and we ' l l --

34
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can here you plainly.
2 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. But I take i t you can ' t
3 hear me qui te as wel l -- can you hear me now?
5 THE COURT: Okay. Now , does any juror have any
6 personal , moral , or rel igious bel ief that would prevent you from
7 determining the gui l t or innocence of a person charged wi th a
8 cr ime? If so, raise your hand. Go ahead.
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I spent 27 years as a Chicago
10 pol ice off icer , and I ' ve made arrests wi th gun charges --
11 everything. Homicide , narcot ics. And I think that would
12 prejudice me. I would have to tend to go wi th the off icers.
13 THE COURT: I ' l l excuse you. Anyone else?
14 (No response . )
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Nobody has stood.
16 Is there anything about the nature of this case -- and
17 you ' ve just got ten a l i t t le bi t of i t , but i t involves the
18 al legat ion of conspi racy to sel l cer tain cont rol led substances
19 and that in fur therance of that conspi racy cer tain people
20 possessed a f i rearm. Is there anything about that that you just
21 couldn ' t be fai r in this case? If so, please stand. Your name,
22 please , and your --
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Vicky Johnson , Belvidere.
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a son who ' s a drug addict .

35
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And I ' ve not iced in my
2 quest ioning of other jurors in other cr iminal cases that i t ' s
3 not uncommon to have someone in a fami ly or a relat ion that has
4 had a substance abuse problem. Is this something that you would
5 then feel that you would take i t out against the defendants who
6 are charged here?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Def ini tely. I ' ve had those people
8 cal l ing my house .
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' l l excuse you.
11 THE COURT: As I said to her , there wi l l be others of
12 you who have had persons in thei r fami ly that have had a drug
13 addict ion problem, and what I ' m st r iving for is twelve jurors
14 who can be fai r and independent . That is, al l of us have had
15 exper iences in our affai rs that we ' ve reacted to. I need people
16 who can be fai r and impar t ial and judge this case on the basis
17 of the evidence and on the law that I give you.
18 I wi l l give you inst ruct ions throughout the case and at
19 the end of the case. Is there any juror who i f they fel t that
20 my inst ruct ion was not r ight would not fol low i t? In other
21 words, create your own inst ruct ion. Is there anyone who would
22 do that? If so, raise your hand or stand up.
23 (No response . )
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Nobody has stood up .
25 I ' ve told you that this case wi l l last no longer than

36
1 Wednesday of next week. Is there anyone who could not serve for
2 that per iod of t ime? Al l r ight . A number of people raised
3 thei r hands . I t ' s the summer season. I know people have jobs
4 and vacat ions. Yes, ma ' am. Your name and where you ' re from.
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Lisa Durovey in McHenry.
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: And I ' ve had a t r ip planned for
8 next week where I ' m scheduled to leave on Thursday, and I would
9 just be concerned that --
10 THE COURT: You won ' t go into Thursday.
12 THE COURT: I wi l l assure you that .
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: And then I do have a deadl ine at
14 work that ' s due the 23rd, and I ' d be a l i t t le concerned about
15 making that date , but I understand -- I ' m more worr ied about --
16 anyway, that ' s al l .
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Wel l , the 23rd is Wednesday.
18 You had what on the 23rd?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: A deadl ine at work .
20 THE COURT: I don ' t think you have to worry about that .
22 THE COURT: I wi l l work wi th you on that .
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay. Thank you.
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Lisa Elcock, and I ' m

37
1 from DeKalb.
2 THE COURT: Yes.
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am an educator , and we have
4 16 days of school lef t . My husband -- I have three smal l
5 chi ldren, and my husband lef t yesterday for two weeks for DARE
6 school . He ' s a pol ice off icer in DeKalb.
7 THE COURT: I ' l l excuse you.
9 THE COURT: What was your name again?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Lisa Elcock. I t ' s E- l -c-o-c-k.
11 THE COURT: Yes, si r . Your name.
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ross Lamont from Belvidere.
13 THE COURT: What ' s your comment?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: What was that?
15 THE COURT: What ' s your comment?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a maintenance technician for
17 Sears Holdings Corporat ion , and there ' s mysel f and a coworker
18 who is on vacat ion this week due to his wi fe going into surgery,
19 and I ' m the only other technician in our dist r ict for this area.
20 So, I may be requi red to -- I ' m on cal l for this week.
21 THE COURT: I ' l l consider that . Let me see who ' s
22 cal led and how many others are there. Employment is impor tant ,
23 but I wi l l consider that .
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Hi . My name is Kr isty Kaminski
25 from Cor t land, and I work for a very smal l company. I 'm a

38
1 project manager , which means get t ing the projects going and
2 implement ing, as wel l as our accounts receivable and payable.
3 So, i t is a hardship for me to be out that long.
4 THE COURT: Is i t a hardship for your company?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah. There ' s only eight of us.
6 THE COURT: What would happen i f you ' re sick?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Our bi l ls don ' t go out , and we
8 don ' t pay our bi l ls, and the projects are stal led unt i l I ' m
9 there.
10 THE COURT: I ' l l consider that , but at this point I ' m
11 not going to excuse you.
12 We have some over on the other side.
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: John Gruben from Rochel le,
14 I l l inois.
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My daughter ' s wedding is on
17 Saturday, and I ' ve got to be honest . I think i t ' s an honor and
18 a pr ivi lege to serve, but my mind is real ly not going to be
19 where i t needs to be.
20 THE COURT: I understand. I ' l l excuse you.
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mary Lee from Freepor t . I 'm
22 leaving town on Thursday and would not be able to be here for
23 the ent i re length of t r ial .
24 THE COURT: Are you going on vacat ion?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. We have nonrefundable

39
1 t ickets.
2 THE COURT: Al l r ight . No, I understand.
4 THE COURT: What ' s your name again?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mary Lee.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mike Plocinski from Loves Park. My
8 wi fe is pregnant wi th twins, and we were at the hospi tal over
9 the weekend wi th cont ract ions. So, she could go at any t ime.
10 THE COURT: I understand i t . I ' l l excuse you.
11 Al l r ight . Anyone else?
12 (No response . )
13 THE COURT: Final ly, is there any other reason why
14 somebody could not --
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I just have one, your Honor .
16 THE COURT: Your name, please.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Al Staskauskas from
18 Machesney. My wi fe has cancer , and she ' s due to have chemo next
19 Tuesday, and usual ly I go wi th her to take care of her . She ' s
20 survived for about seven years now, and I ' d l ike to keep her
21 that way, but I thought i t would be maybe a shor t t r ial and that
22 i t wouldn ' t be a problem.
23 THE COURT: I understand. I ' l l excuse you.
25 THE COURT: Anyone else?

40
1 Al l r ight . I am going to have the clerk cal l twelve of
2 you to the jury box, and the f i rst one cal led takes the f i rst
3 seat in the front row . Then the next f ive go to the next f ive
4 seats. So, leave the last seat in the front row vacant . The
5 seventh juror wi l l take the f i rst seat in the back, and we ' l l go
6 al l the way to the next to the last in the back .
7 MR. TUNICK: Your Honor , before we do that , may we
8 approach? We have a quest ion for you.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , you may approach, counsel . Make i t
10 br ief . Whatever you ' re going to ask, we ' re not having a sidebar
11 on i t . Step forward.
12 MR. TUNICK: I t has to do wi th jury select ion.
14 MR. TUNICK: And i f can we do i t on the side, I ' d
15 appreciate i t .
16 (The fol lowing proceedings were had at the sidebar , out of
18 THE COURT: This is the last --
19 MR. TUNICK: Judge, i t ' s very impor tant to me, and
20 that ' s the fact that , you know, the t r ial -- the government said
21 i t would probably go into Tuesday, and you ' ve indicated to the
22 jurors that they wouldn ' t have to serve unless Wednesday -- or
23 up unt i l Wednesday, and I have some very ser ious concerns . This
24 is a very, very close case as to my cl ient , and they ' re going to
25 have to del iberate. I do not want them to be rushed into a

41
1 verdict .
2 THE COURT: I thought you said the ent i re case would go
3 through Tuesday.
4 MR. TUNICK: I bel ieve i t wi l l , Judge. And that gives
5 them maybe a day to del iberate on three defendants and mul t iple
6 counts . I have concerns as to Lee Al len and whether or not
7 they ' re going to proper ly consider this case as to him.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' ve said i t on the record.
11 THE COURT: We ' l l cal l twelve names now.
12 THE CLERK: Sherry Wessel , W-e-s-s-e- l . Kathryn
13 Chamber lain , C-h-a-m-b-e-r- l -a- i -n. Stephen Faivre,
14 F-a- i -v-r-e . Susan Wel ls, W-e- l - l -s . Jerry Anderson,
15 A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. Mar ie Zammuto, Z-a-m-m-u- t -o. Jerry For tner ,
16 F-o-r- t -n-e-r . Sher i Geishecker , G-e- i -s-h-e-c-k-e-r . Jenni fer
17 Meade-Schi l l , M-e-a-d-e hyphen S-c-h- i - l - l . Joanne Tkadletz,
18 T-k-a-d- l -e- t -z. Pat t i Blumenthal , B- l -u-m-e-n- t -h-a- l . Cathy
19 Jager , J-a-g-e-r .
20 THE COURT: The f i rst juror always gets a lot of
21 quest ions, and you ' re the f i rst one that I ' l l be asking the
22 quest ions of , but the rest of you bear wi th me. What I ' m
23 interested in is , as I told you before, t ruthful answers, and we
24 t ry to proceed as expedi t iously as possible.
25 Again, give me your name.

42
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sherry Wessel .
2 THE COURT: How old are you?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 52 .
6 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in the Rockford
7 area?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 28 years.
9 THE COURT: And before that?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Plano, I l l inois.
11 THE COURT: Did you grow up in the Plano area?
13 THE COURT: Go to high school there?
15 THE COURT: Who do you reside wi th?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My husband. I have one son in
17 col lege yet .
18 THE COURT: And that ' s your fami ly?
20 THE COURT: Are you employed?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I am.
22 THE COURT: Where did you work?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rockford Heal th System, payrol l
24 depar tment .
25 THE COURT: How long have you worked there?

43
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Twelve years.
2 THE COURT: Before that?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Insurance agent .
4 THE COURT: And essent ial ly you ' ve been in
5 record-keeping or a secretar ial capaci ty?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That ' s r ight .
7 THE COURT: Your husband ' s employment?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sel f-employed .
9 THE COURT: What does he does?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s a sandblast ing, powder coat ing
11 operat ion.
12 THE COURT: Does he have his own company, or does he
13 work for somebody else from t ime to t ime, or how does he work
14 i t?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s his own company. He ' s the
16 only employee.
17 THE COURT: And how long has he had that?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About 25 years.
19 THE COURT: Now, what ' s your educat ional background?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: High school graduate.
21 THE COURT: What high school?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Plano.
23 THE COURT: And have you ever served as a juror before?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not in federal .
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . But you have served in state

44
1 cour t?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In the county.
3 THE COURT: And was that when you were residing here in
4 Winnebago County?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In Winnebago.
6 THE COURT: How many t imes?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just once that I actual ly served.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And how long ago?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About eight years.
10 THE COURT: What type of case?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t was a lawsui t .
12 THE COURT: Civi l case versus a cr iminal case?
14 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You understand you ' l l fol low
15 the inst ruct ions that I ' l l give you in this case, and they ' l l be
16 almost completely di fferent from a civi l case.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I understand.
18 THE COURT: Now, has anyone in your fami ly -- and when
19 I talk about fami ly, I ' m probably referr ing to your parents or
20 sibl ings or grandparents or chi ldren. Anyone in your fami ly
21 ever worked for the federal government?
23 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever had a claim
24 or brought a lawsui t against any agency of the federal
25 government?

45
2 THE COURT: Has any member of your fami ly ever served
3 in law enforcement?
5 THE COURT: Have you or any fami ly member ever had an
6 exper ience wi th a law enforcement off icer , ei ther par t icular ly
7 good or par t icular ly bad, that may cause you to judge the
8 test imony of a pol ice off icer di fferent from any other wi tness?
10 THE COURT: And would you judge the test imony of a
11 pol ice off icer or any person of prominence or of author i ty the
12 same way you would judge the test imony of any wi tness? That is,
13 you ' re not going to give any more or less weight to that wi tness
14 just because of that person ' s posi t ion?
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Have you or any fami ly member
17 ever test i f ied in a cr iminal case?
19 THE COURT: Have you ever been the vict im of a cr ime?
21 THE COURT: And has anyone in your fami ly ever been
22 arrested or charged wi th an offense other than a t raff ic related
23 offense?
25 THE COURT: Do you belong to any clubs or

46
1 organizat ions?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just my church.
5 THE COURT: Okay. Do you have any object ions or
6 disagreements wi th laws that might prohibi t the possession or
7 dist r ibut ion of cer tain types of cont rol led substances?
9 THE COURT: And are you a member of any group or have
10 you ever taken a posi t ion ei ther for or against gun laws?
12 THE COURT: Do you have a f i rearm in your home?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, we do not .
14 THE COURT: Now, there wi l l be evidence in this case of
15 membership in a st reet gang by cer tain of these defendants on
16 t r ial and others . Such membership is not alone a cr ime. Can
17 you give a gang member a fai r t r ial and requi re the government
18 to prove the defendant gui l ty based on al l the evidence as i t
19 relates to the cr imes charged?
21 THE COURT: Now, is there any quest ion that I haven ' t
22 asked that you have in the back of your mind, wel l , maybe I
23 ought to tel l the judge this?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t know of any.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . If you ' re selected, can you

47
1 promise me you ' d be a fai r and impar t ial juror in this case?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I wi l l .
3 THE COURT: Pass the microphone.
4 Give me your name again .
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Kathryn Chamber lain.
6 THE COURT: Your age?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 64.
8 THE COURT: And I think you said you were from the
9 Rockford area?
11 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in this area?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Twelve and a hal f years .
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Champaign-Urbana for two years and
15 then Fond du Lac , Wisconsin, for the durat ion.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And who do you reside wi th?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My husband.
18 THE COURT: Do you have chi ldren?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.
20 THE COURT: Are they outside the home?
22 THE COURT: How many chi ldren?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Three. And my husband has three.
24 So, I have three stepchi ldren.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Give me just br ief ly what thei r

48
1 occupat ions are.
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One is a computer analyst . One is
3 a nurse. One is st i l l a col lege student . One is a physical
4 therapist . One is in cosmetology. And one is in l ibrary, works
5 in a l ibrary, or a bookstore.
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , are you employed?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am.
8 THE COURT: And you are employed by what?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Swedish Amer ican.
10 THE COURT: And how long have you worked there?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Twelve and a hal f years .
12 THE COURT: And what ' s your capaci ty? What do you do
13 there?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a registered nurse in the
15 cl inic .
16 THE COURT: Where did you work before that?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In a cl inic in Champaign-Urbana.
18 THE COURT: And has that been your profession then?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nursing.
20 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Were you the one that stood up
21 and said you recal l a name?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, I recognized the name, and I
23 didn ' t want any propr iety to be quest ioned later i f indeed i t
24 was the same person.
25 THE COURT: I understand. And you ' re assur ing me that

49
1 i f you recognize the person, should he test i fy, that would have
2 no bear ing on your abi l i ty to judge this case fai r ly?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That ' s correct .
4 THE COURT: Is your husband employed?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, si r .
6 THE COURT: Where and what does he do?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s a physician wi th Swedish
8 Amer ican.
9 THE COURT: And I take i t he ' s been a physician for a
10 number of years?
12 THE COURT: What is his special ty?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Internal medicine.
14 THE COURT: And he goes by the same name as you?
16 THE COURT: What ' s your educat ional background?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a Bachelor ' s of Science in
18 nursing.
19 THE COURT: Have you served as a juror before?
21 THE COURT: Now, has anybody in your fami ly ever worked
22 for the federal government?
24 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever sued or made a
25 claim against any agency of the federal government?

50
2 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever work in law
3 enforcement?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. My f i rst cousin was a local
5 sher i ff in my home town.
6 THE COURT: And is that going to cause you any reason
7 to, let ' s say, bel ieve a pol ice off icer more than you would
8 bel ieve any other wi tness?
10 THE COURT: If he was a sher i ff , I take i t was he
11 elected, or was he a deputy?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, he was the sher i ff .
13 THE COURT: He was the elected sher i ff .
15 THE COURT: And I take i t he probably discussed some of
16 his business wi th you?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not professional ly.
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You could assure -- and I think
19 maybe the defendants and thei r lawyers are obviously interested
20 because of that relat ionship. You can assure us that i t ' s not
21 going to make any di fference.
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , no. We had a huge fami ly, and
23 we never talk business.
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And this was your former
25 husband?

51
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Pardon me?
2 THE COURT: Who was i t?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My cousin.
4 THE COURT: Oh. I thought you said i t was your former
5 husband.
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, my f i rst cousin.
7 THE COURT: Now, have you or anybody in your fami ly
8 ever had a par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law
9 enforcement that could cause you to judge the test imony of a law
10 enforcement off icer di fferent than any other wi tness?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I have had a good exper ience
12 in that my son has a mental i l lness, and I had to have him
13 commi t ted to Singer involuntar i ly, and the pol ice came to the
14 home, and they t reated him wi th respect .
15 THE COURT: Okay. In tel l ing me about that , do you
16 agree, again, though, that you ' re going to judge the pol ice
17 off icers, i f they test i fy in this case, based on not your past
18 exper ience wi th one good off icer , but --
20 THE COURT: -- based on al l the test imony of al l the
21 wi tnesses?
23 THE COURT: And you ' l l do that?
25 THE COURT: And do you agree that you shouldn ' t take a

52
1 person ' s prominence in the communi ty or the fact that they wear
2 a badge as giving that person more weight than some other
3 wi tness?
5 THE COURT: Have you ever test i f ied in a cr iminal case?
7 THE COURT: Ever been the vict im of a cr ime?
10 charged wi th a cr iminal offense?
12 THE COURT: Other than t raff ic.
15 organizat ions?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I belong to the Nat ional
17 Associat ion for the Mental ly I l l , the Nat ional Al l iance for the
18 Mental ly I l l , and Amer ican Cont ract Br idge League.
19 THE COURT: Now, do you have any disagreement wi th laws
20 that would regulate and make i l legal cer tain types of cont rol led
21 substances?
23 THE COURT: And do you have any object ion to laws that
24 also prohibi t cer tain weapons from being possessed?

53
1 THE COURT: Do you belong to any groups or
2 organizat ions that are pro or con gun possession?
4 THE COURT: You heard me ask the f i rst juror about
5 where there ' s evidence of membership in a gang and my comment
6 that just being a member of a gang is not i l legal . And my
7 quest ion is i f there is evidence of gang membership, can you
8 give a person who might be a member of a gang a fai r t r ial and
9 base this case on the evidence and the charge against him?
11 THE COURT: Any quest ion that I haven ' t asked you that
12 you would br ing to my at tent ion as i t may affect your abi l i ty to
13 be fai r and impar t ial?
15 THE COURT: You can be fai r and impar t ial to both sides
16 i f selected?
19 Mr . -- is i t --
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Faivre.
21 THE COURT: Mr . Faivre . How old are you, si r?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Kingston, I l l inois .
25 THE COURT: How long have you l ived there?

54
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Seven years.
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Three years in DeKalb, I l l inois;
4 before that three years in Plat tevi l le; and before that
5 25 years, 30 years in DeKalb.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My wi fe.
8 THE COURT: Do you have chi ldren --
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, two.
10 THE COURT: -- outside the home?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One is staying wi th us at the
12 moment , a son.
13 THE COURT: Is he employed?
15 THE COURT: What does he do?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s a computer engineer .
17 THE COURT: The other chi ld?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The other chi ld is in Cal i fornia.
19 THE COURT: Doing what?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s taking care of two chi ldren .
21 THE COURT: And are you employed?
23 THE COURT: What do you do?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am a market ing manager for John
25 Deere.

55
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And how long have you been in
2 that job?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Five years wi th Case Corporat ion.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 25 years farming in DeKalb,
8 I l l inois.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And in your present job
10 market ing, what do you do?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My job is to work on product
12 concepts that are three to ten years out .
13 THE COURT: How to adver t ise those and --
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. Product concepts and designs .
15 THE COURT: Okay. Are you supervising anyone else?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a Master ' s in business
19 administ rat ion.
20 THE COURT: And have you served as a juror before?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. A civi l case in DeKalb County
22 about 15 years ago.
23 THE COURT: And you understand my quest ion of the other
24 juror that had served before. You ' l l fol low the inst ruct ions
25 that are appl icable to this case?

56
2 THE COURT: The burden of proof is di fferent . Most
3 every inst ruct ion is di fferent . You understand that .
5 THE COURT: Now, has anyone in your fami ly ever worked
8 THE COURT: Tel l me about i t .
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I come from a very large fami ly.
10 So, I ' ve had people at the federal level from Washington D.C.
11 through several state agencies and at the county level .
12 THE COURT: Anybody ever worked in law enforcement in
13 your fami ly?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. I have several relat ives that
15 are in law enforcement .
16 THE COURT: Have they ever worked for a federal law
17 enforcement agency, such as the DEA or the FBI?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. I have a cousin that ' s worked
19 for the FBI , yes .
20 THE COURT: Is he local?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She.
22 THE COURT: Is she local?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Out in Washington state .
24 THE COURT: Does that make any di fference, as far as
25 you are concerned, in judging the credibi l i ty of wi tnesses --

57
2 THE COURT: -- that you have a relat ive who works in
3 ei ther a local or federal law enforcement?
5 THE COURT: Is there anybody, any of your brothers or
6 sisters or parents or grandparents, that have worked in law
7 enforcement?
9 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever made a claim
10 against the federal government or sued the federal government?
12 THE COURT: Other than what you ' ve told me about those
13 persons in your fami ly that have been connected wi th law
14 enforcement , is there anybody that ' s in local law enforcement
15 that ' s in your fami ly?
17 THE COURT: What depar tment?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In both the county sher i ff and the
19 ci ty pol ice depar tments.
20 THE COURT: And would that be in DeKalb?
22 THE COURT: And do you see those persons fai r ly
23 regular ly or not?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Several t imes a year .
25 THE COURT: What ' s the relat ionship? Is i t cousins?

58
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Cousins.
2 THE COURT: And is that , again, going to make any
3 di fference as far as your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
5 THE COURT: And you would judge the test imony of a
6 pol ice off icer l ike anyone else , no more weight or less weight
7 because of thei r job?
9 THE COURT: Have you or someone in your fami ly ever had
10 a par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement that
11 could affect your abi l i ty to judge law enforcement off icers?
16 charged wi th a cr iminal offense other than a t raff ic related
17 offense?
20 organizat ions?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. I ' m a member of the Amer ican
22 Society of Agr icul tural and Biological Engineers, a member of
23 the Knights of Columbus, and I serve on the board of di rectors
24 of the Elwood House Museum in DeKalb.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Do you have any opposi t ion to

59
1 laws that prohibi t cer tain types of cont rol led substances?
3 THE COURT: And the same quest ion regarding cer tain
4 types of f i rearms.
6 THE COURT: Do you own a f i rearm?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I don ' t .
8 THE COURT: And you ' re not a member of any organizat ion
9 pro f i rearm or ant i f i rearm?
11 THE COURT: Now, as i t relates to evidence of
12 membership in a gang, there may be evidence of that , and there
13 may be evidence that a defendant was in the gang. The quest ion
14 is wi l l you judge this case based on whether the government
15 proves i ts case beyond a reasonable doubt and as to the charges
16 that they have brought rather than just associate i f a person is
17 in a gang, he ' s going to be gui l ty? Do you understand that?
19 THE COURT: And do you agree wi th what I said?
21 THE COURT: Anything I ' ve fai led to ask you that you
22 would br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may affect your abi l i ty to
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Only related to cont rol led
25 substances. In a previous posi t ion I was publ icly backing the

60
1 legal izat ion of hemp for indust r ial uses.
2 THE COURT: Is that going to -- now, you understand in
3 this case this is a charge wi th dist r ibut ion and possession wi th
4 intent to dist r ibute heroin and crack cocaine. Do you
5 understand that?
7 THE COURT: Have you taken any posi t ion on that?
9 THE COURT: And do you agree wi th laws that prohibi t
10 that type of cont rol led substance?
12 THE COURT: Can you be fai r and impar t ial to both sides
13 i f you ' re selected?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I bel ieve so, yes.
15 THE COURT: Pass the microphone. We ' re going to go for
16 about 15 more minutes , and then take a break.
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Susan Wel ls.
19 THE COURT: And how old are you?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Crystal Lake.
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Two and a hal f years.

61
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Lake Zur ich.
2 THE COURT: And how long?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: For a couple of years.
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Gurnee before that for a couple
6 years.
7 THE COURT: Where did you grow up?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Cent ral I l l inois, Peor ia area.
9 THE COURT: Go to one of the Peor ia high schools?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. Actual ly, I was out in the
11 boonies. I went to a high school cal led I l l inois Val ley
12 Cent ral .
13 THE COURT: But that was near Peor ia?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, 20 mi les.
15 THE COURT: Now, who do you reside wi th?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: A signi f icant other .
17 THE COURT: And is that person employed?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, he is.
19 THE COURT: And what does he do?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He is a graphic designer for a
21 smal l manufacturer in Wauconda, I l l inois.
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And do you have chi ldren?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m sel f-employed.

62
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have an onl ine Internet craf t
3 business.
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . How long have you had that?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About four years.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked for the same company that
8 Michael did in Wauconda, I l l inois.
9 THE COURT: For how long?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Three years.
11 THE COURT: Doing what?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Graphic design.
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Before that I was in adver t ising.
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now, what is your educat ional
16 background?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a col lege degree , a
18 Bachelor ' s degree, in home economics.
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, si r .
21 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever work for the
22 federal government?
24 THE COURT: Anyone ever sued the federal government?

63
2 enforcement?
4 THE COURT: Have you had a par t icular ly good or bad
5 exper ience ever wi th a law enforcement off icer?
7 THE COURT: And you would agree wi th me that a law
8 enforcement off icer ' s test imony should be judged in the same way
9 as any other wi tness?
13 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever been charged
14 wi th a cr iminal offense other than t raff ic?
16 THE COURT: And do you belong to any clubs or
17 organizat ions?
19 THE COURT: And do you have any disagreement wi th laws
20 that regulate cont rol led substances?
22 THE COURT: And have you ever been a par t of any
23 organizat ion that is ei ther pro gun or ant i gun legislat ion?
25 THE COURT: Gangs . You ' re going to hear evidence of

64
1 that in this case. Wi l l you judge this case based on the facts
2 that are presented in cour t as i t relates to the cr imes that
3 have been charged and not just because the person is a member of
4 a gang?
6 THE COURT: Do you understand what I ' m saying?
8 THE COURT: And that ' s your posi t ion?
10 THE COURT: You could be fai r?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I bel ieve I can.
12 THE COURT: Now, is there any quest ion that I haven ' t
13 asked you that you would --
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can ' t think of anything, no.
15 THE COURT: Can you be fai r and impar t ial?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I bel ieve I can.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Pass the microphone on.
18 Your name, si r?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Jerry Anderson.
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Freepor t , I l l inois .
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Al l my l i fe.

65
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My wi fe Ri ta.
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I have three chi ldren.
5 THE COURT: Tel l me what they do.
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My daughter is a school teacher in
7 Chicago suburbs, my son is a sales rep for Coleman Lanterns, and
8 my youngest daughter is a market analyst .
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . A l i t t le closer wi th the mike .
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I recent ly ret i red.
13 THE COURT: Where did you work?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Newel l Rubbermaid.
15 THE COURT: Okay. And that ' s a big employer over in --
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Was a big employer .
17 THE COURT: Not as big as i t was, I guess.
19 THE COURT: When did you ret i re?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: December 11th was my last working
21 day.
22 THE COURT: And what did you do there?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was a tool and die.
24 THE COURT: Were you a par t of the union, or was that
25 nonunion?

66
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nonunion, r ight .
2 THE COURT: Is your wi fe employed?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, she isn ' t . She ' s on Social
4 Secur i ty disabi l i ty.
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Had she been employed in the
6 last ten years?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. She was at Micro-Swi tch.
8 THE COURT: What did she do there?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She was an assembler .
10 THE COURT: Al l r ight . What ' s your educat ional
11 background?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: High school .
13 THE COURT: Freepor t High School?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Freepor t High , r ight .
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I have.
17 THE COURT: In Stephenson County?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right , in Stephenson County.
19 THE COURT: How long ago and what type of case?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Probably four years ago.
21 THE COURT: What type of case?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just civi l .
23 THE COURT: Civi l case?
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And you ' l l fol low the

67
1 inst ruct ions of law that I give you in this case, wi l l you not?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I wi l l .
6 THE COURT: Anyone ever sued or brought a claim against
7 an agency of the federal government?
10 enforcement?
12 THE COURT: And have you or any fami ly member had a
13 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement that
14 could inf luence your abi l i ty to fai r ly judge the test imony of
15 law enforcement off icers?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No problem.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And have you ever test i f ied in
18 a cr iminal case?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I haven ' t .
20 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever been charged
21 wi th a cr iminal offense?
23 THE COURT: Are you a member of any clubs or
24 organizat ions?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Fraternal Order of Eagles.

68
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Do you have any opposi t ion to
2 laws that regulate cer tain types of cont rol led substances and
3 make i t a cr iminal offense?
5 THE COURT: Have you ever been a par t of an
6 organizat ion that is pro or con legislat ion as i t relates to
7 f i rearms?
9 THE COURT: And as to gang membership, you ' ve heard my
10 quest ions. If there is evidence of membership in a gang, you
11 understand that this case must be judged on how the evidence
12 relates to the cr imes charged and that the government must prove
13 those cr imes charged beyond a reasonable doubt?
15 THE COURT: Just because a person may have associated
16 wi th a gang member or be a gang member of i tsel f is not going to
17 be the test to determine whether that person is gui l ty or not
18 gui l ty of this offense.
20 THE COURT: I t may be relevant , but you understand my
21 quest ions.
23 THE COURT: Now, is there anything I ' ve fai led to ask
24 you that you would br ing to my at tent ion as i t may affect your
25 abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?

69
2 THE COURT: Can you promise me you ' d be fai r and
3 impar t ial?
5 THE COURT: Thank you. Pass the microphone on.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mar ie Zammuto.
10 THE COURT: You ' re from the Rockford area?
12 THE COURT: How long have you l ived here?
14 THE COURT: And who do you reside wi th?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My daughter and son- in- law.
16 THE COURT: And do you have -- f i rst of al l , do you
17 have chi ldren of your own?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I do.
19 THE COURT: Other than your daughter .
21 THE COURT: Can you just tel l me what thei r occupat ions
22 are?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She works in machinery, and my
24 son- in- law is a pr inter .
25 THE COURT: Okay. And other chi ldren that you have?

70
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have another boy and a gi r l .
2 THE COURT: What do they do?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My son is ret i red. My daughter is
4 a nurse down in Flor ida.
5 THE COURT: What did your son do?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Pardon?
7 THE COURT: What did your son who is ret i red do?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He was a real tor .
9 THE COURT: Okay. Now , are you employed?
11 THE COURT: I presume that you ' ve been ret i red for --
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve been ret i red for two years.
13 THE COURT: Oh. Wel l , what did you do before you
14 ret i red?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked for Swedish Amer ican
16 dietary.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And how long did you work for
18 them?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Four teen years.
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked in the school board for
22 twelve years.
23 THE COURT: In what capaci ty?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: As secretar ial .
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , is your husband -- were

71
1 you marr ied , and is your husband deceased?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My husband died 18 years ago.
3 THE COURT: What did he do?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He worked as a painter .
5 THE COURT: Okay. What is your educat ional background?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Graduated from Muldoon High School .
7 THE COURT: Have you ever served as a juror before?
9 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever worked for
10 the federal government?
12 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever sued the
15 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly worked in law
16 enforcement?
18 THE COURT: Have you or anyone in your fami ly had a
19 par t icular ly good or bad relat ionship wi th any law enforcement
20 off icer?
24 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever been charged
25 wi th a cr iminal offense other than a t raff ic related offense?

72
2 THE COURT: Do you current ly belong to any clubs or
3 organizat ions?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I current ly belong to my church
5 organizat ions, the Young Seniors of St . Anthony ' s of Padua
6 Church .
7 THE COURT: Do you have any opposi t ion to laws that
8 make i t i l legal to possess or dist r ibute cer tain types of
9 cont rol led substances?
11 THE COURT: Have you ever taken a posi t ion or been par t
12 of an organizat ion that ' s ei ther been for gun cont rol or against
13 gun cont rol?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m in between.
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Have you ever been act ive one
16 way or the other?
18 THE COURT: You kind of -- as far as whether guns ought
19 to be possessed, you have viewpoints on i t , but you could vary
20 that ; is that r ight?
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You wi l l hear evidence of gang
23 membership, and there may be evidence that one or more
24 defendants on t r ial were members of a gang. But what has to be
25 shown is the government has to prove the defendants gui l ty

73
1 beyond a reasonable doubt of the charges that they are charged
2 wi th. Can you perform that funct ion and make that determinat ion
3 and not be swayed that just because a person is in a gang that
4 that makes him gui l ty of the offense that he ' s charged wi th?
6 THE COURT: I ' ve asked a lot of quest ions --
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Or no, si r .
8 THE COURT: What ' s that?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m sorry. I should say no, si r .
10 THE COURT: I ' ve asked a lot of quest ions. Is there
11 anything that you have in your own mind that you would volunteer
12 to me as i t relates to your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
14 THE COURT: You could be fai r and impar t ial?
16 THE COURT: And have no fur ther quest ions?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: You ' re welcome.
20 THE COURT: We ' l l take one or two more . Pass the
21 microphone on down. We ' l l star t over there.
22 Your name, si r?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Jerry For tner .

74
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Around Freepor t . Davis , I l l inois ,
3 which isn ' t too far from Freepor t .
4 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in that area?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have two.
10 THE COURT: Just tel l me what they do.
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My son is in maintenance at Dean ' s,
12 and my daughter is a supervisor at Met Li fe.
15 THE COURT: Where and what do you do?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a t ruck dr iver for CPS
17 Trucking, and I also am a school bus dr iver for Dakota.
18 THE COURT: And how long have you worked --
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About two years both of them
20 places .
21 THE COURT: Okay. And before that , were you a t ruck
22 dr iver?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Farming. Oh, excuse me . Before
24 that I worked for Lancaster Township for about a year and a
25 hal f . Before that , I was a dai ry farmer .

75
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And did you own your own farm?
3 THE COURT: St i l l have your farm?
5 THE COURT: Is your wi fe employed?
7 THE COURT: What does she do?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s a head tel ler at Davis State
9 Bank.
10 THE COURT: And how long has she been there?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Probably 35 years.
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And what ' s your educat ional
13 background?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t bel ieve, no.
20 THE COURT: Have you ever heard of anybody ever suing
21 the federal government from your fami ly?
23 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly worked in law
24 enforcement?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a couple cousins that work

76
1 for the pol ice in Freepor t .
2 THE COURT: Is that going to make any di fference as far
3 as your abi l i ty to judge independent ly the credibi l i ty of law
4 enforcement who might test i fy in this case?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t bel ieve so, no.
6 THE COURT: In other words, just because you have some
7 relat ion that ' s in law enforcement , you can assure me that a law
8 enforcement off icer who test i f ies is not going to get any more
9 weight or less weight just because you have somebody in your
10 fami ly that ' s in law enforcement .
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And have you ever had a
13 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement
14 off icers?
18 THE COURT: And has anybody in your fami ly ever been
21 THE COURT: One of the charges here is possession of a
22 f i rearm in fur therance of a conspi racy. Have you ever taken a
23 posi t ion pro or con legislat ion as i t relates to f i rearms?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve never taken a posi t ion, no.
25 THE COURT: Do you have one?

77
2 THE COURT: For hunt ing purposes?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Hunt ing purposes.
4 THE COURT: Are you a member of the IRA?
6 THE COURT: NRA.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: NRA.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . As far as cont rol led
9 substances, do you have any opposi t ion to laws that regulate
10 cer tain types of cont rol led substances?
12 THE COURT: As far as evidence in this case , you wi l l
13 hear evidence of membership in a gang. Wi l l you judge this case
14 based on the charges that have been brought and the proofs that
15 you hear and not render a verdict just because you may not l ike
16 gangs?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can ' t honest ly say. I work wi th
18 a lot chi ldren, and I see a lot of si tuat ions that I have a
19 feel ing that I ' m a l i t t le bi t par t ial .
20 THE COURT: And does that mean that i f you heard
21 evidence that a person was par t of a gang, but that i t ' s not
22 i l legal to be a par t of a gang, i t may be eventual ly i f the
23 government has evidence of the cr imes that i t has charged the
24 defendants wi th that you may consider as evidence gang
25 membership, but that in and of i tsel f is insuff icient to convict

78
1 anyone . Do you understand that?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, and I ' m not sure how I ' d l ike
3 to answer i t . I just think -- I ' d l ike to think I would be
4 fai r , but --
5 THE COURT: You ' d l ike to think you ' re fai r .
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would l ike to think, and I don ' t
7 know how else to answer that . I can ' t say yes or no for sure
8 because I feel that I ' m a l i t t le par t ial .
9 THE COURT: I ' m going to excuse you. I need
10 somebody -- I appreciate your candor though.
11 We ' l l cal l one person to replace him, and then I ' l l
12 quest ion that person, and then we ' l l take a recess. Cal l a
13 juror . You may leave .
14 THE CLERK: Jeffery Pease, P-e-a-s-e.
15 THE COURT: Take the microphone, please. Your name is
16 Mr . Pease; is that correct?
20 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in Rockford?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Pret ty much al l my l i fe .
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And who do you l ive wi th?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My wi fe and my three daughters.
24 THE COURT: Are any of the daughters working?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My oldest is, yes.

79
1 THE COURT: Where does she work?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She works at Cadbury Adams.
3 THE COURT: And any other chi ldren outside the house
4 that are working?
8 THE COURT: Where do you work?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work at Gates Corporat ion.
10 THE COURT: Is that over in Freepor t or --
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, this is in Rockford .
12 THE COURT: Okay. What do you do there?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Screw machine operator .
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Almost a year now.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked at another screw machine
18 shop, Midwest Screw Machine.
19 THE COURT: And how long did you work there?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked there about eight months .
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Forest Ci ty Machine Works.
23 THE COURT: And for how long?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Eleven years.
25 THE COURT: And were any of those posi t ions -- were you

80
1 a member of the union?
3 THE COURT: Your wi fe. Is she employed?
5 THE COURT: And where?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She works at Ecolab.
7 THE COURT: And what does she do?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s an assembler .
9 THE COURT: How long has she worked there?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I think she ' s been there about ten
11 or eleven years.
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , what ' s your educat ional
13 background?
15 THE COURT: Graduated from one of the high schools?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: East .
19 THE COURT: Was that in federal cour t or in the county?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: State cour t .
21 THE COURT: Across the st reet?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Across the st reet , yes.
23 THE COURT: How long ago and what type of case?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t was probably about a year and a
25 hal f -- take that back. I t was about two years ago, and i t was

81
1 a cr iminal case.
2 THE COURT: What was the charge?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Possession wi th intent .
4 THE COURT: To dist r ibute?
6 THE COURT: What was the verdict?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not gui l ty.
8 THE COURT: And was there just one charge?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: There were several charges.
10 THE COURT: And i t was not gui l ty of al l charges?
12 THE COURT: Had you ever served as a juror before that?
14 THE COURT: And i f you ' re selected here as a juror ,
15 even though this is a cr iminal case, you ' l l have to fol low the
16 inst ruct ions that I give you in this case. They may be somewhat
17 di fferent . Wi l l you do that?
19 THE COURT: Now, has anyone in your fami ly ever worked
22 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever brought a
23 claim or sui t against any agency of the federal government?

82
1 enforcement?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have two cousins who are pol ice
3 off icers.
4 THE COURT: Is that local ly?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One cousin works as a pol ice
6 off icer in a ci ty in Cal i fornia . I don ' t remember the name.
7 And I have another cousin who is on the Cook County Sher i ff ' s
8 Depar tment .
9 THE COURT: Can you judge the test imony of a pol ice
10 off icer or a law enforcement off icer just l ike every other
11 wi tness and not give any more or less weight to the person just
12 because they have a badge?
14 THE COURT: And have you or anyone in your fami ly had a
15 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement ever?
17 THE COURT: Have you ever had to test i fy in a cr iminal
18 case?
20 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly ever been
21 charged wi th a cr iminal offense other than a t raff ic related
22 offense?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have had several cousins, yes.
24 THE COURT: In the Rockford area?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, and in other ci t ies, too.

83
1 THE COURT: And is there anything as a resul t of that
2 that you fel t that they were unfai r ly charged?
4 THE COURT: You come into this case wi th an open mind
5 and could be fai r to both sides?
7 THE COURT: Have you ever had to test i fy in a cr iminal
8 case?
11 organizat ions?
14 make cer tain cont rol led substance i l legal to possess or to
15 dist r ibute?
17 THE COURT: And do you have any opposi t ion to laws that
18 regulate f i rearms?
20 THE COURT: Do you have a f i rearm in your home?
22 THE COURT: And have you ever been a member of an
23 organizat ion that is pro or against f i rearms?
25 THE COURT: As to gang membership , you wi l l hear

84
1 evidence of that . Can you judge this case based on the facts
2 and what the defendants are charged wi th, and the fact that a
3 person may be a member of a gang not automat ical ly say that
4 makes that person gui l ty or tends to make that person gui l ty?
6 THE COURT: You can keep that in mind then?
8 THE COURT: Is there anything I haven ' t asked you that
12 THE COURT: You can be fai r and impar t ial to both
13 sides?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I can.
15 THE COURT: We ' re going to take a 20-minute recess at
16 this t ime. There ' s a lot of people here, and what I ' m going to
17 f i rst tel l you is don ' t discuss this mat ter wi th anybody, and
18 I ' m going to ask that , Dick, take the jurors, the ones in the
19 box, back to the jury room so they can use the rest rooms there .
20 The rest of you we ' re going to ask that you al l leave the
21 cour t room, and then in about 15 minutes we ' l l open the doors and
22 let you come back again.
23 Wi th that , thank you. You may take them.

85
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Make sure everybody ' s back here
2 ready to go a few minutes before 11:00.
3 (Br ief recess. )
6 THE COURT: We ' re going to move along just as quickly
7 as possible . We wi l l go into the lunch hour . I ' m going to t ry
8 to get a jury selected so that you wi l l know that you won ' t have
9 to be here. So, i f I can get that accompl ished dur ing the lunch
10 hour , which would be the normal lunch hour , I ' l l do i t . We ' l l
11 just move into that .
12 Al l r ight . Do you have the microphone there? We ' l l
13 proceed at this t ime. Give me your name, please.
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Sher i Geishecker .
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Algonquin, I l l inois.
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Chicago.

86
2 THE COURT: Outside the home?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, in the home.
4 THE COURT: Are they school age?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, 11 and 18.
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And are you employed?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was ' t i l last week. I got laid
8 off .
9 THE COURT: Where were you, and what were you doing?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: GE. I did IT, f inance, and
11 bi l l ing.
12 THE COURT: And how long had you worked there?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Six years.
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Amer i tech, f ive years.
16 THE COURT: In what capaci ty?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Execut ive administ rator .
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And is your husband employed?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, he is.
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Communicat ions technician.
22 THE COURT: How long has he worked there?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s been doing that work 40 years.
24 THE COURT: Who is i t for?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Appl ied Communicat ions.

87
2 background?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My brother- in- law works for the
9 EPA.
10 THE COURT: The I l l inois EPA?
12 THE COURT: And has anybody in your fami ly ever sued
15 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever work in law
16 enforcement?
18 THE COURT: Have you or a fami ly member ever had a
19 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement?
21 THE COURT: You ' d judge the test imony of a law
22 enforcement off icer just l ike anyone else?

88
5 organizat ions?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Boy Scouts.
7 THE COURT: Do you have any object ion or disagreement
8 wi th laws that prohibi t cer tain cont rol led substances from being
9 possessed or dist r ibuted?
11 THE COURT: Have you ever taken a posi t ion one way or
12 the other on gun cont rol and laws that regulate who can lawful ly
13 possess a weapon?
15 THE COURT: As far as gang membership, there may be
16 l imi ted evidence on that issue. Wi l l you keep an open mind and
17 decide this case based upon the charges that the government has
18 brought and the evidence and not let gang membership cont rol
19 your verdict?
21 THE COURT: You understand what I mean by that .
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , yes.
23 THE COURT: That you ' l l hear some evidence of i t , but
24 you must decide this case based on al l the issues that I wi l l
25 give you at the end of the case .

89
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Um-hm.
2 THE COURT: Anything I haven ' t asked you that you would
3 br ing up that might inf luence your verdict in this case?
7 THE COURT: Thank you. Next juror .
8 Your name, please?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Jenni fer Meade-Schi l l .
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m or iginal ly from Beloi t ,
14 Wisconsin, current ly l iving in South Beloi t .
15 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in South Beloi t?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve l ived in South Beloi t about
17 six years, pr ior to that a year in Mi lwaukee, four years in
18 Oshkosh, Wisconsin, then raised in Beloi t .
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have an 18-month old daughter .
25 THE COURT: Where do you work?

90
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work for I l l inois Mentor .
2 THE COURT: What do you do there?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a foster care case manager .
4 THE COURT: Where is I l l inois Mentor?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In Loves Park .
6 THE COURT: And what is that agency?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s a pr ivate agency cont racted
8 wi th DCFS for abused and neglected chi ldren in foster care.
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have worked for I l l inois Mentor
11 for two years. Previous to that I worked for Chi ldren ' s Home
12 and Aid Society doing the same type of work.
13 THE COURT: And how long have you been involved in that
14 type of work?
16 THE COURT: I take i t you probably get abused and
17 neglected chi ldren who come from fami l ies where drugs may have
18 played a par t in that?
20 THE COURT: Are you able to judge this case on the
21 basis of the facts that you wi l l hear and not let anything
22 interfere wi th that in terms of what your personal exper iences
23 are?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I feel I can be fai r .
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And is your husband employed?

91
2 THE COURT: Where and what does he do?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s a warehouse supervisor for
4 Uni ted Tool & Engineer ing.
5 THE COURT: Has he been there for awhi le?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a Bachelor ' s in human
9 services, and I ' m current ly a ful l t ime student at Universi ty of
10 I l l inois obtaining my Master ' s in social work.
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I have not .
13 THE COURT: Have you or anybody in your fami ly ever
14 worked wi th the federal government?
16 THE COURT: Ever sued the federal government?
18 THE COURT: And has anybody in your fami ly ever worked
21 THE COURT: Have you or any fami ly member had a
23 may affect your abi l i ty to fai r ly judge the test imony of a
24 pol ice off icer?

92
1 THE COURT: Do you work occasional ly wi th pol ice
2 off icers in your job?
4 THE COURT: Is i t a mat ter that you ' d be reading
5 repor ts of pol ice off icers , or would they be repor t ing something
6 to the agency?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I may read an or iginal repor t from
8 a pol ice off icer when a chi ld came into care. Otherwise, the
9 major i ty of my interact ions wi th pol ice off icers is related to
10 runaway teenagers or missing chi ldren .
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Have you ever had to test i fy in
12 a cr iminal case?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Only in abuse and neglect cour t .
14 THE COURT: That would be in juveni le cour t?
16 THE COURT: And is there anybody in your fami ly that ' s
17 ever been charged wi th a cr iminal offense other than t raff ic
18 related?
21 organizat ions?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nat ional Associat ion for Social
23 Workers.
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And as i t relates to the cr imes
25 charged here, do you have any opposi t ion to laws that regulate

93
1 and prohibi t cer tain types of cont rol led substances to be
2 possessed or dist r ibuted?
4 THE COURT: As far as guns are concerned, do you belong
5 to any organizat ion that is pro or con guns?
7 THE COURT: And as far as evidence of gang membership ,
8 you may hear evidence of that . Are you able to judge this case
9 based on the government ' s burden to prove the charges that i t
10 has brought beyond a reasonable doubt and not render a
11 verdict -- to be inf luenced because of gang membership?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I feel I can be fai r in that .
13 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Have you ever -- wel l , is there
14 anything that I have not asked you that you would br ing to my
15 at tent ion as i t may affect your abi l i ty to be a fai r and
16 impar t ial juror?
18 THE COURT: Can you promise me you ' d be fai r to both
19 sides i f selected?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I wi l l be fai r .
21 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Pass the microphone on.
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Joanne Tkadletz.
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m from Rockford.

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1 THE COURT: How long have you l ived here?
3 THE COURT: And how long has that been?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: ' 56. I was in Pecatonica. I grew
5 up in Pec and graduated from Pec in ' 68.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Who do you l ive wi th?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mysel f .
8 THE COURT: Do you have any chi ldren?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have one boy.
10 THE COURT: Is that person employed?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s employed in Chicago. He f l ies
12 ai rplanes.
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I wr i te mor tgages, do ref inance
17 foreclosures, and on the side I sel l carpet for Empi re.
18 THE COURT: Are you a mor tgage broker , or do you work
19 for a company, one company?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Both. I work at Mor tgage
21 Solut ions. I ' m a broker , and I send my business through
22 Mor tgage Solut ions.
23 THE COURT: How long have you been doing that?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve been wi th him about seven or
25 eight years .

95
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I sold memberships to business
3 owners for the U .S. Chamber of Commerce in Washington.
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The other job, what was i t?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I sel l carpet for Empi re.
6 THE COURT: How long have you done that?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About six months.
8 THE COURT: Is that the f i rst exper ience you ' ve had in
9 sel l ing carpets?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Is that a Chicago out f i t ,
12 Chicago area?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t is.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Now , what ' s your educat ional
15 background?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: High school , Pecatonica , ' 68 .
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Never have.
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, your Honor .
22 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever sued the
23 federal government or brought a claim against the federal
24 government?

96
2 enforcement?
4 THE COURT: Tel l me about i t .
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My son is 37. He got a degree in
6 law enforcement and was a pol iceman and did his internship in
7 Racine and was a pol iceman and detect ive in Waukegan , I l l inois ,
8 before he went to pi lot school .
9 THE COURT: I presume he probably invest igated drug
10 cases?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I assume he did, but I don ' t know
12 that he did .
13 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Because of that relat ionship,
14 are you going to credi t the test imony of a law enforcement
15 off icer di fferent than other wi tnesses?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t bel ieve that I would .
17 THE COURT: Obviously, you ' re proud of your son in his
18 chosen occupat ions, and you say you don ' t bel ieve that you
19 would. I take i t what that means is that you have no present
20 feel ing that you would bel ieve a pol ice off icer over somebody
21 else.
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That ' s correct . I make no
23 conclusions pr ior to anything.
24 THE COURT: And did you meet fel low pol ice off icers of
25 your son or not?

97
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not too much.
2 THE COURT: He did from t ime to br ing them back to the
3 home?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. He was in there, and I ' m out
5 here.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Any other persons in your fami ly who
7 are involved in law enforcement?
9 THE COURT: And have you personal ly had any
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, your Honor .
14 THE COURT: And anybody in your fami ly ever been
18 organizat ions?
21 regulate what type of drugs people can legal ly possess?
23 THE COURT: And do you have any -- have you been wi th a
24 group one way or the other that would ei ther suppor t or oppose
25 laws that regulate f i rearms?

98
2 THE COURT: And as far as membership in a gang, would
3 you -- i f I al low that into evidence , would you consider that
4 along wi th al l the other evidence in the case and that that
5 wouldn ' t alone inf luence you to f ind the defendants gui l ty?
7 THE COURT: You understand that the government has the
8 burden to prove the cr ime that they ' re charged wi th. You
9 understand that .
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , is there any quest ion that
12 I haven ' t asked you that you would br ing to my at tent ion that
13 would affect your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: None.
15 THE COURT: You could be fai r to both sides?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can.
17 THE COURT: Pass the microphone on.
18 Al l r ight . Your name, please?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Pat t i Blumenthal .
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I l ive in Belvidere.
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve been there nine years.

99
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was in Dal las.
3 THE COURT: Dal las, Texas?
5 THE COURT: How long did you l ive there?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was there for twelve years . I'm
7 from Schaumburg, I l l inois, or iginal ly.
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m employed wi th my husband . He ' s
14 sel f-employed. I ' ve been wi th him for four years.
15 THE COURT: Tel l me what he does.
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We own a photography studio.
17 THE COURT: Where is that?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We have a studio in Belvidere and
19 one in South Barr ington, I l l inois.
20 THE COURT: And has he been in that type of business
21 for some t ime?
23 THE COURT: And you ' ve been working for him for four?
25 THE COURT: What did you do, i f anything, before that?

100
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was an off ice manager at Lennox
2 Indust r ies for nine years.
3 THE COURT: What was the indust r ies?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Lennox. Lennox Heat ing and Ai r
5 Condi t ioning.
6 THE COURT: I ' ve heard of i t , yes . What ' s your
7 educat ional background?
11 THE COURT: Now, has anybody in your fami ly ever worked
14 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever brought a claim
15 against any agency of the federal government?
18 enforcement?
20 THE COURT: Have you or anybody in your fami ly had a
22 could affect your abi l i ty to fai r ly judge the test imony of a law
23 enforcement off icer?

101
6 organizat ions?
8 THE COURT: As i t relates to the charge here of the
9 conspi racy to possess wi th intent to dist r ibute cer tain drugs,
10 do you have any opposi t ion to laws that regulate the legal i ty of
11 cer tain drugs?
13 THE COURT: And have you ever been in any group that ' s
14 been pro gun or ant i gun legislat ion?
16 THE COURT: And you ' l l hear evidence, probably, of gang
17 membership. Wi l l you decide this case based on al l the evidence
18 and what the charges are and not f ind somebody gui l ty just
19 because there may be evidence that they belong to or were a
20 member of or associated wi th a gang?
22 THE COURT: So, I guess that was a long quest ion .
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I kind of lost i t .
24 THE COURT: I t ' s not going to --
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m not going --

102
1 THE COURT: Decide i t on gang membership alone; is that
2 r ight?
4 THE COURT: Now, is there any quest ion I haven ' t asked
5 you that you would br ing to my at tent ion now?
7 THE COURT: You ' l l be fai r and impar t ial i f selected?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I would.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Pass the microphone .
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Cathy Jager .
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Algonquin.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Two years.
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Hoffman Estates for four and then
20 some hopping around for a whi le . I ' m or iginal ly from Elgin.
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My husband and two chi ldren.
23 THE COURT: Any chi ldren outside the house?
25 THE COURT: Are ei ther of the two chi ldren working ful l

103
1 t ime?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not ful l t ime , no.
5 THE COURT: What do you do and where?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work at a fami ly owned jewel ry
7 store in Crystal Lake , I l l inois .
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Five years.
10 THE COURT: Are you in sales for that?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Some sales. Most ly bookkeeping.
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Again, hopping around. I was home
14 wi th the kids for a number of years. I ' ve always been in
15 retai l . Retai l clothing for nine, retai l books for nine, home
16 wi th the kids for a number of years.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . What about your husband? Is he
18 employed and, i f so, where?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ful l t ime wi th Wi l low Creek Church
20 in South Barr ington, I l l inois.
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: For 25 years he was the sound
23 technician, and now he ' s more behind the scenes projects wi th
24 the sound depar tment .
25 THE COURT: That ' s a large church , is i t not?

104
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Very large.
2 THE COURT: I think I ' ve heard of i t . And is that in
3 the Barr ington area?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: South Barr ington, yeah.
5 THE COURT: And a lot of i t is music related?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s very ar ts dr iven, r ight .
7 THE COURT: And he ' s not a minister there?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Never .
13 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly ever worked for
19 enforcement?

105
1 THE COURT: And you ' d judge the test imony of a pol ice
2 off icer just l ike anyone else, would you not?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would think so, yeah.
7 THE COURT: Current ly do you belong to any clubs or
8 organizat ions?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just our church.
11 would regulate the legal i ty of cer tain cont rol led substances?
13 THE COURT: The same way wi th guns. Do you have any
14 opposi t ion to laws that regulate guns?
16 THE COURT: There wi l l be some evidence, I suppose, of
17 membership in a gang. Wi l l you judge this case on the facts and
18 what the government has charged and not f ind someone gui l ty just
19 because they ' re a member of a gang?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would be fai r .
21 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And is there anything I ' ve
22 fai led to ask you that you would br ing to my at tent ion at the
23 present t ime as i t may relate to your abi l i ty to be fai r and
24 impar t ial?

106
3 THE COURT: I ' m going to ask al l of you a couple of
4 quest ions, and I ' m just going to ask the quest ion, and then
5 star t wi th the f i rst juror and go r ight down the l ine through
6 the f i rst six and then through the last six.
7 My f i rst quest ion is the government has the burden to
8 prove a defendant gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt . Now, i f
9 af ter you ' ve heard al l the evidence in the case you do have a
10 reasonable doubt and you ' ve discussed that wi th the other
11 jurors , would you then, i f you have a reasonable doubt , f ind the
12 defendant not gui l ty?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. I ' m sorry.
14 THE COURT: I wi l l inst ruct you that the government has
15 the burden to prove a defendant gui l ty beyond a reasonable
16 doubt . If af ter you ' ve heard al l the evidence you have a
17 reasonable doubt , then would you f ind the defendant not gui l ty?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , yes. Yes .

107
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And we ' l l do i t the other way.
6 If af ter you ' ve heard al l the evidence in the case and discussed
7 i t wi th the jurors you bel ieve and f ind that a defendant has
8 been proved gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt , would you f ind
9 that defendant gui l ty?
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Those are al l the quest ions
23 that I ' m going to ask these jurors. The lawyers may discuss
24 this for a moment wi th thei r cl ients, and then I wi l l meet the
25 lawyers over at the side here. So, i f the jurors here and the

108
1 jurors out there want to get up and st retch, you can do so. You
2 can even whisper , but don ' t talk , but relax, i f you want , for a
3 few minutes .
4 (Br ief pause . )
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Be seated . I ' l l ask that the
6 lawyers come up here.
8 the presence and hear ing of the jury: ) .
9 THE COURT: Fi rst of al l , are there any chal lenges for
10 cause?
11 MR. IASPARRO: No, Judge.
12 MR. BYRD: No.
13 MR. TUNICK: No, your Honor .
14 MR. SULLIVAN: No.
15 THE COURT: Are there any fol low-up quest ions?
16 MR. IASPARRO: No.
17 MR. BYRD: My cl ient would l ike to have the quest ion
18 asked about whether or not -- per taining to thei r race, whether
19 or not that would factor in.
20 THE COURT: Wel l , I would have given that . I ' l l ask
21 the jurors al l one quest ion in that respect , but I would have
22 given that had i t been requested ear l ier .
23 MR. BYRD: I understand.
24 THE COURT: Do you have any fol low-up?
25 MR. TUNICK: No.

109
1 THE COURT: Do you have any fol low-up?
6 THE COURT: I ' m going to ask a quest ion l ike I ' ve asked
7 the other ones and then go down the l ine and answer that , and
8 I ' l l fol low i t up i f I feel i t deserves another quest ion.
9 My quest ion is this. Two of the defendants here are
10 Afr ican-Amer ican . Race should not make any di fference in this
11 case. Does i t make any di fference in you giving a fai r t r ial to
12 those two, yes or no?

110
3 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now we ' l l proceed. The
4 government , accept or reject number one.
5 MR. IASPARRO: We accept number one.
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Each of you I ' ve given three,
7 and then one joint .
8 MR. TUNICK: Judge, we ' ve decided together on our
9 st r ikes.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Is there any object ion then as to
11 number one?
12 MR. BYRD: No.
13 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' re answer ing for al l three.
14 MR. TUNICK: Yes.
15 THE COURT: I ' l l let you answer for al l three.
16 MR. BYRD: Al l r ight .
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Number one is accepted.
18 I ' l l go to number two. You guys go f i rst . Any
19 object ion?
20 MR. BYRD: We ' re going to object to number two.
21 THE COURT: Okay. Number two wi l l be st r icken.
22 MR. KARNER: Which defendant would that be counted
23 against?
24 THE COURT: I t ' s against al l . You ' re exercising them
25 al l together . Is that what you said?

111
1 MR. TUNICK: Yes.
3 MR. BYRD: Yes.
4 THE COURT: Okay. Just a second here. Number three.
5 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts juror number
6 three.
7 MR. BYRD: We ' re going to object to number three .
8 THE COURT: Number four .
9 MR. BYRD: We ' re good wi th number four .
11 four .
12 THE COURT: Number f ive.
14 f ive.
15 MR. BYRD: We ' re going to object to number f ive.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Number six. You can go f i rst .
17 MR. BYRD: We ' re okay wi th number six.
18 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts juror number six.
19 THE COURT: Number seven.
21 seven.
22 THE COURT: That ' s Mr . Pease .
23 MR. BYRD: We accept number seven .
24 THE COURT: Number eight .
25 MR. BYRD: We accept number eight .

112
1 MR. IASPARRO: The government chal lenges --
2 MR. BYRD: Wai t . I ' m sorry.
3 MR. TUNICK: No, I ' m sorry. You ' re r ight . That ' s
4 correct .
5 THE COURT: Eight is -- I ' m sorry. You accepted?
7 MR. IASPARRO: The government chal lenges number eight .
8 THE COURT: The government excuses eight . Now we ' re at
9 number nine .
11 nine.
12 THE COURT: Number nine.
13 MR. BYRD: We object to number nine.
14 THE COURT: Number nine. Al l r ight . You ' ve used four .
15 Number ten.
16 MR. BYRD: We accept number ten.
17 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts juror number ten.
18 THE COURT: Number eleven.
20 eleven .
21 MR. BYRD: We accept number eleven.
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And number twelve.
23 MR. BYRD: We accept number twelve.
25 twelve .

113
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . We have seven that have been
2 accepted; is that accurate?
4 THE COURT: I ' m going to swear those seven in, send
5 them back to the jury room, and then we ' l l proceed wi th the
6 balance.
7 MR. BYRD: Judge, I don ' t know i f Susan ment ioned to
8 you or not . We had discussed just as a housekeeping mat ter -- I
9 don ' t bel ieve i t was a formal arrangement . On the second
10 superseding --
11 THE COURT: On the second superseding indictment . I' ll
12 get that before we star t the -- I appreciate you saying that .
13 I ' l l get i t before we star t the opening statements when we ' re
14 outside the presence of the jury.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Some jurors are being excused ,
18 and I ' m going to tel l you who wi l l remain. The fol lowing jurors
19 wi l l remain . Ms . Wessel , Wel ls , Zammuto, Pease . How do you
20 pronounce number -- what I cal l number ten? How do you
21 pronounce your name?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Tkadletz.
23 THE COURT: Yes. You are a juror . Ms . Blumenthal and
24 also Ms. Jager . The rest of you are excused. So, i t ' s number
25 two and number three and number f ive and the two in the back. I

114
1 want to thank you. Don ' t think about why you ' re excused. These
2 are just the way jurors are selected.
3 Wi th that , I ' m going to ask that the seven who wi l l be
4 jurors please r ise and raise thei r r ight hands.
5 (Jurors duly sworn. )
6 THE COURT: You are sworn as jurors. I ' m going to send
7 you back to the jury room because you don ' t need to l isten to me
8 quest ion al l of the other people who are going to ul t imately
9 form the twelve jurors and the two al ternates. You wi l l go back
10 to the jury room. You can go out for lunch. I don ' t think
11 we ' l l star t before 1:30. So, be back by 1:30, and be here at
12 1:30. I can ' t proceed wi thout al l of you. So, be here at 1:30.
13 Don ' t discuss the case wi th anybody or among yourselves. Don ' t
14 al low i t to be discussed in your presence. Wi th that , you may
15 take them back.
16 We wi l l cal l f ive addi t ional persons who wi l l be seated
17 in the chai rs that have been vacated. So, the f i rst one wi l l
18 take chai r two, the second one chai r three , the thi rd one chai r
19 f ive, the four th person chai r eight , which is the second one in
20 the back row, and then the next one to that . Cal l some names.
21 THE CLERK: John Newquist , N-e-w-q-u- i -s- t , chai r two.
22 Ji l l Shuet t , S-h-u-e- t - t , seat three. Sandra Sul l ivan,
23 S-u- l - l - i -v-a-n, seat f ive . Michael Thimios, T-h- i -m- i -o-s,
24 seat eight . Benjamin Hol lowel l , H-o- l - l -o-w-e- l - l , seat nine.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Fi rst before I quest ion you

115
1 individual ly, you ' ve al l been out there, and I ' ve asked a lot of
2 quest ions. You ' ve heard the quest ions that I ' ve asked. Is
3 there anybody here who feels for some reason they could not
4 serve and be a fai r and impar t ial juror? If so, would you -- go
5 ahead.
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Ji l l Shuet t . The gang
7 member --
8 THE COURT: Yes.
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: -- thing in the back of my head
10 bothers me. I don ' t know i f I could be fai r .
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Has i t confused you as to how
12 I ' ve said that?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, no.
14 THE COURT: I mean, there may be evidence of membership
15 in a gang, and maybe one or more of these defendants there ' s
16 evidence to show that they are, but just because a person is a
17 member of a gang does not make them gui l ty. They have to be
18 proven gui l ty of the cr imes that they ' re charged wi th.
20 THE COURT: Do you understand that?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, I understand that .
22 THE COURT: And understanding that , do you feel that
23 you would take into considerat ion in a greater degree membership
24 in a gang that might very wel l cause you to f ind a defendant
25 gui l ty?

116
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I think i t might . I ' m afraid i t
2 might .
4 Now, somebody else raised thei r hand. Yes.
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Good morning, your Honor . My name
6 is Sandra Sul l ivan. I actual ly worked at law enforcement for
7 the last eleven years , Rochel le Pol ice Depar tment . I probably
8 would si t at this f i rst table.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You feel that you obviously --
10 you ' re current ly in law enforcement?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I am, si r .
12 THE COURT: Wel l , you ' re not disqual i f ied
13 automat ical ly, but you feel that wi th your exper ience, you would
14 have a di ff icul t t ime f inding a defendant not gui l ty.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I wi l l excuse her .
17 The young -- wel l , two more .
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Michael Thimios, and,
19 unfor tunately, I feel I might have some bias against a known
20 gang member .
21 THE COURT: Just because of that?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' d l ike to think that I wouldn ' t ,
23 but I can ' t say for sure.
25 Your name, si r .

117
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Benjamin Hol lowel l . I have a lot
2 of fami ly members that have been arrested, and I ' ve been
3 arrested mysel f a lot of t imes, actual ly, and I just -- I don ' t
4 know.
5 THE COURT: You feel i t ' s bet ter you wouldn ' t serve.
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I do feel bet ter i f I wouldn ' t
7 serve.
9 Wel l , we ' l l cal l four more. Those persons wi l l take
10 seats three , f ive, eight and nine. Go ahead.
11 THE CLERK: El izabeth Fornek, F-o-r-n-e-k, seat three .
12 Chr istopher Long, L-o-n-g, seat f ive. Denise Keiner ,
13 K-e- i -n-e-r , seat eight . Kenneth Lippold, L- i -p-p-o- l -d, seat
14 nine.
15 THE COURT: A couple of quest ions . Fi rst of al l , i f
16 somebody -- I don ' t necessar i ly see any of the f ive of you, but
17 i f one of you stood up ear ly on this morning when I asked about
18 general reasons and you might have stated something, but I said
19 st ick around, remind me of that . I t ' s been a couple of hours.
20 I don ' t think any of you are in that . You ' re in the wrong seat .
21 They told you -- you ' re back there.
22 Al l r ight . Now, secondly, is there any one of you who
23 based on al l my quest ions that you ' ve heard feels that there ' s
24 something that you couldn ' t be a fai r and impar t ial juror? Yes.
25 Mr . Lippold .

118
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My father served in law enforcement
2 for many years, was a parole off icer for a couple years, was a
3 correct ions off icer at Statevi l le, was a chief of pol ice in
4 Sugar Grove , and also taught law enforcement for 25 years . And
5 so, I know that I personal ly would probably give more
6 credibi l i ty to a pol ice off icer than to other wi tnesses.
7 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' l l excuse you.
8 Cal l another juror .
9 THE CLERK: Ver lan Smi th, S-m- i - t -h, seat nine.
10 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Mr . Smi th , is there any reason
11 why you couldn ' t serve as a fai r and impar t ial juror?
13 THE COURT: You were the juror who stood up and needs
14 to take a recess every couple of hours.
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Every couple hours .
16 THE COURT: Is that r ight?
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I t ' s only been 45 minutes.
19 We ' l l f inish this pret ty quickly. Hand the mike back.
20 Mr . Newquist ; is that correct?
22 THE COURT: How old are you , si r?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: DeKalb.

119
1 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in DeKalb?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Off and on since I was born. I
3 l ived in Chicago for ten years, also.
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , who do you reside wi th?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have my wi fe and three kids.
6 THE COURT: Any of the kids of ful l t ime working age?
8 THE COURT: Are you employed and, i f so, where?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work for OSHA.
10 THE COURT: And what do you do there?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m an assistant regional
12 administ rator handl ing al l the t raining and out reach programs.
13 THE COURT: That is a federal program, is i t not?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, i t is.
15 THE COURT: And did I ask you how long you ' ve worked
16 there?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Since 1983.
18 THE COURT: Have you in that job ever had any
19 associat ion wi th the U.S. At torney ' s Off ice?
21 THE COURT: In what way?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We worked on several cases that
23 they prosecuted. I have never test i f ied in those cases, but for
24 the evidence on di fferent things l ike a tunnel col lapse or
25 something else l ike that , we ' ve worked wi th them.

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1 THE COURT: Have you ever worked in a case that ' s been
2 out in this division?
4 THE COURT: Or supervised a case out in this division?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was a supervisor for this area,
6 but I can ' t think of a case when I was a supervisor that we
7 handled.
8 THE COURT: So that what your answer is, you don ' t know
9 any of these prosecutors.
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I don ' t know any of the people
11 in the at torney ' s off ice here.
12 THE COURT: I take i t that from t ime to t ime you have
13 talked wi th prosecutors in the U .S. At torney ' s Off ice in
14 Chicago?
16 THE COURT: And you ' ve had cases where i t eventual ly
17 has gone to a cr iminal charge?
19 THE COURT: Would that be against individuals or
20 against companies or both?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: General ly, these are al l against
22 the companies.
23 THE COURT: Al l r ight . As far as you ' re concerned wi th
24 your job, your job doesn ' t depend upon you siding wi th the
25 federal government , does i t?

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1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, i t doesn ' t .
2 THE COURT: And you could be fai r and impar t ial as a
3 juror in this case?
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Let me go forward. Is your
6 wi fe employed?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s a subst i tute teacher .
8 THE COURT: Has she been that for awhi le?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, for ten years or so.
10 THE COURT: In what area?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In DeKalb/Sycamore area .
12 THE COURT: And what ' s your educat ional background?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve got a Bachelor of Science in
14 engineer ing from I l l inois Inst i tute of Technology and a Master ' s
15 in indust r ial management .
16 THE COURT: Did you go r ight into working for OSHA, or
17 did you have other jobs f i rst?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was also in the Mar ine Corps and
19 the Navy intel l igence as an off icer .
20 THE COURT: Were you ever in the MPs, mi l i tary pol ice?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. I t was just l ike radio
22 elect ronic repai r in the Mar ine Corps .
23 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Have you ever been a juror
24 before?

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1 THE COURT: Any other job wi th the federal government
2 other than your current job and the job wi th Uncle Sam?
4 THE COURT: Have you or anybody in your fami ly ever
5 brought a lawsui t against the federal government?
7 THE COURT: Is there anyone else in your fami ly that ' s
8 worked for the federal government?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My wi fe used to work, also, wi th
10 OSHA back in the late ' 80s and ear ly ' 90s.
12 enforcement?
14 THE COURT: And have you or any fami ly member had a
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I ' ve had good exper iences
17 wi th, you know, the pol ice off icers I ' ve worked wi th on the
18 fatal i ty cases and everything else l ike that . No bad ones.
19 THE COURT: And when you work wi th law enforcement
20 off icers that are associated wi th -- that do workup for OSHA,
21 are they local or are they federal?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The pol ice off icers I ' ve deal t wi th
23 have been most ly local ones, l ike Ci ty of DeKalb or Ci ty of
24 Geneva , Woodr idge.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Any invest igat ion that you ' ve

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1 been involved wi th involve drugs?
3 THE COURT: Since you ' ve worked wi th law enforcement
4 off icers, can you judge the credibi l i ty of a law enforcement
5 off icer just l ike anyone else, give them no more nor less
6 credibi l i ty than anybody else?
8 THE COURT: And you ' ve never test i f ied in an OSHA case.
9 Have you ever test i f ied in any other cr iminal case?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No cr iminal cases, just in OSHA
11 cases.
12 THE COURT: Okay. And some of those OSHA cases were
13 cr iminal cases, but you never test i f ied.
15 THE COURT: How about before the grand jury?
21 organizat ions?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just professional societ ies related
23 to work.
24 THE COURT: You ' ve heard what the charges are here.
25 Fi rst , as i t relates to the dist r ibut ion or possession wi th

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1 intent to dist r ibute cont rol led substance, do you have any
2 opposi t ion to such laws?
4 THE COURT: Have you ever been in pro gun or ant i gun
5 groups and involved in legislat ion?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not present ly. I was in the NRA
7 for about four years back in the late ' 80s and ear ly ' 90s .
8 THE COURT: As far as gang membership, you ' ve heard me
9 say that there could be evidence of that . As far as you ' re
10 concerned, wi l l you requi re the government to prove i ts case
11 based upon al l the evidence and based on the charges against the
12 defendant , not just f ind somebody gui l ty because there may be
13 evidence of thei r membership in a gang?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would look at the evidence and
15 make that decision, yes.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Anything I haven ' t asked you
17 that you ' d br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may relate to your
18 abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
20 THE COURT: You can be fai r and impar t ial i f selected?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: El izabeth Fornek.

125
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve l ived in Cary for seven years.
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wheel ing for about two years and
6 then before that Connect icut , where I did my graduate work, and
7 then before that Georgia.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You grew up in Georgia?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About 18 years, yes.
12 THE COURT: Any chi ldren of working age?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m an eighth grade social studies
18 teacher .
19 THE COURT: How long have you been so employed?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About seven years.
21 THE COURT: In that school dist r ict?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Before that I was l ike a subst i tute
25 teacher , and then before that I was outdoor educat ion in

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1 Connect icut .
2 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Your husband ' s employment?
4 THE COURT: What is i t?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , I ' m sorry. He works for Home
6 Depot .
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He works at the Pro Desk wi th
9 cont ractors .
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About two years now.
12 THE COURT: What did he do before that?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He worked on digi tal t ransmi t t ing
14 stat ions for a company cal led Talus.
15 THE COURT: And how long did he work there?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About three, four years .
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He was at Home Depot .
19 THE COURT: Okay. What ' s your educat ional background?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a Master ' s degree.
21 THE COURT: And have you ever been on a jury before?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My father worked for the Depar tment

127
1 of Agr icul ture.
2 THE COURT: That doesn ' t makes you associate wi th the
3 government here in this case.
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay. Sorry.
5 THE COURT: Wel l , you ' re not on thei r side just because
6 your father worked there.
8 THE COURT: Now, have you ever -- anybody in your
9 fami ly ever sued the federal government?
12 enforcement?
14 THE COURT: Have you or some fami ly member ever had a
15 good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nothing in par t icular , no.
17 THE COURT: You could judge the credibi l i ty of a pol ice
18 off icer l ike anyone else?

128
1 organizat ions?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just teachers organizat ions.
3 THE COURT: Al l r ight . In this case one of the charges
4 involves cont rol led substance. Do you have any opposi t ion to
5 laws that make i t i l legal to possess or possess wi th intent to
6 del iver cer tain cont rol led substances?
8 THE COURT: Same way wi th guns. Do you have any
9 opposi t ion to laws that regulate who can have a gun?
11 THE COURT: And evidence of gang membership , i f there
12 be any in this case, wi l l you judge this case based on al l the
13 facts and the charges that are brought?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Could I be fai r? Yes.
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And is there anything that I
16 haven ' t brought up that you would br ing to my at tent ion as i t
17 relates to your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I can ' t think of anything.
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Absolutely.
22 Your name, si r?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Chr is Long.

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2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Hunt ley. I ' ve l ived there four
3 years and Woodstock before that for 15 years and then 15 years
4 in the ci ty. I reside wi th my wi fe and four chi ldren.
5 THE COURT: What do you do for a l iving?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a mold maker .
7 THE COURT: For who?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: For 17 years. I work for a company
9 cal led Plaspros.
10 THE COURT: And how long have you worked for them?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Before that I worked for a company
14 cal led Fabr ique, and then before that i t was Wi l l iam Kl ine &
15 Company.
16 THE COURT: Are they in the Hunt ley area?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One ' s in -- two of them are in
18 McHenry, and one of them is in Woodstock.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Is your wi fe employed?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, she is.
21 THE COURT: Where and what does she do?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She works for the col lege, McHenry
23 County Col lege. She gives out tests.

130
1 THE COURT: Has she been a teacher ever?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. She worked at a Montessor i
3 school .
4 THE COURT: And I take i t the chi ldren are not of
5 working age?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 15 , 11, 6, and two and a hal f .
8 background?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have an associate ' s degree .
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, si r . I have an uncle who is a
15 judge or was a judge in Chicago, but he was a lawyer for many
16 years before that . I don ' t see him very of ten.
17 THE COURT: And that ' s not going to in any way
18 disqual i fy you.
20 THE COURT: What is that person ' s name?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: John Long.
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And anyone else in your fami ly
23 work for the federal government?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I don ' t bel ieve so.
25 THE COURT: He probably worked in state government .

131
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He was maybe -- I ' m not exact ly
2 sure.
3 THE COURT: I don ' t know the name .
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He recent ly had a st roke. So, he
5 doesn ' t do this anymore.
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And anybody in your fami ly ever
7 sued the federal government?
9 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever worked in law
10 enforcement?
12 THE COURT: Have you or any fami ly member ever had a
18 charged wi th a cr iminal offense other than t raff ic?
20 THE COURT: Do you belong current ly to any clubs or
21 organizat ions?
24 regulate cont rol led substances?

132
2 regulate who can possess a f i rearm?
4 THE COURT: And i f you hear evidence of gang
5 membership, wi l l you weigh that evidence along wi th al l the
6 other evidence in the case , but decide this case on al l the
7 evidence and on the charges that are before you?
9 THE COURT: Anything I haven ' t asked you that you would
10 br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may affect your abi l i ty to be
11 fai r and impar t ial?
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Pass the microphone .
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Denise Keiner .
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I l ive in Sycamore .
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Eleven years.
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In Geneva and pr ior to that in

133
1 Sugar Grove .
2 THE COURT: Is that where you grew up, in Sugar Grove?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My husband and three chi ldren.
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a budget analyst at Fermi lab.
10 THE COURT: And that ' s an agency of the federal
11 government?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s a cont ractor .
13 THE COURT: Cont ractor . That ' s r ight .
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Federal cont ractor .
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nine years.
17 THE COURT: And what do you do there?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m in the budget off ice.
19 THE COURT: Before that , where did you work?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked in Elk Grove Vi l lage for
21 ADP.
22 THE COURT: ADP?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The payrol l processors.
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Is your husband employed?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. He works in Batavia at Akzo

134
1 Equipment .
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He ' s a service manager .
4 THE COURT: How long did he work there?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Fi f teen years .
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have my undergrad in account ing
8 and an MBA.
14 THE COURT: Or sued the federal government?
17 enforcement?
21 could affect your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
23 THE COURT: You would judge the test imony of a pol ice
24 off icer just l ike any other wi tness?

135
4 charged wi th a cr iminal offense other than t raff ic related?
6 THE COURT: Do you belong current ly to any clubs or
7 organizat ions?
10 regulate cer tain types of cont rol led substances and make that a
11 cr iminal offense?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am not opposed.
14 opposi t ion to laws that regulate who can possess and what type
15 of guns a person can possess?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Me personal ly, no. My husband is a
17 member of the NRA.
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And as far as gang membership ,
19 i f you hear evidence of that , you would not convict somebody
20 just because of gang membership, would you?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That is correct .
22 THE COURT: You understand from l istening to al l my
23 quest ions that that may be evidence of something, but you
24 must --

136
1 THE COURT: -- l isten to al l the evidence, and you must
2 l isten to what the charges are in this case. Do you understand
3 that?
5 THE COURT: Anything that I haven ' t asked you that you
6 would br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may affect your abi l i ty to
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, nothing.
12 Your name, si r , is?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ver lan Smi th.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I ' ve been in Rockford since
18 1936.
19 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That ' s good enough.
20 Who do you reside wi th?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One. 45 years old .
24 THE COURT: Where does that person work?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He works at Old Time Pot tery.

137
1 THE COURT: Okay. And are you st i l l employed?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I ' m ret i red.
3 THE COURT: When did you ret i re and from what company?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 24 years ago June 1st from
5 Sundst rand.
6 THE COURT: What did you do there?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I worked in the off ice for
8 about 18 years. Expedi ted , whatever .
9 THE COURT: I take i t you were a longt ime Sundst rand
10 employee?
12 THE COURT: Was your wi fe employed?
14 THE COURT: When did she ret i re?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , i t must be ten , twelve years
16 ago now.
17 THE COURT: And where did she work?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rockford Sheet Metal Works.
19 THE COURT: What did she do there?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Off ice.
21 THE COURT: Had she worked there a long t ime?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , a few years.
23 THE COURT: Has she done off ice work? Was that her
24 occupat ion?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. She star ted wi th Nat ional

138
1 Lock. Then later my brother- in- law owned a company, and she
2 worked for him for awhi le.
3 THE COURT: Okay. What company was that?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rockford Sheet Metal Works.
5 They ' re not in business anymore .
6 THE COURT: I understand that . And you indicated to me
7 ear l ier that i f we took a recess every couple of hours, that
8 would be al l r ight?
11 background?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, over 50 years ago.
15 THE COURT: In state cour t across --
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Winnebago County. A bingo case.
17 THE COURT: A bingo case?
19 THE COURT: That was only the only case you served on?
21 THE COURT: What did they do? Was i t gui l ty or not
22 gui l ty?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: A hung jury.
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You understand that you wi l l
25 fol low the inst ruct ions of law that I give you in this case.

139
2 THE COURT: Have you or any fami ly member ever worked
7 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever worked in law
8 enforcement?
10 THE COURT: Have you or any fami ly member had ei ther a
11 good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement?
13 THE COURT: Can you judge the test imony of a law
14 enforcement off icer just l ike any other wi tness?
22 organizat ions?
24 THE COURT: You ' ve heard that one of the charges here
25 has to do wi th a conspi racy to possess wi th intent to dist r ibute

140
1 cer tain cont rol led substances. Do you have any opposi t ion to
2 laws that regulate that?
4 THE COURT: And there also is a charge relat ing to a
5 f i rearm. Do you have any opposi t ion to laws that regulate
6 f i rearms?
8 THE COURT: You say no?
10 THE COURT: There may be evidence of gang membership.
11 You understand that you can ' t convict somebody just because that
12 person is a member of a gang?
15 you would br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may affect your
16 abi l i ty to be a fai r and impar t ial juror?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t think so.
18 THE COURT: Can you be fai r and impar t ial to both
19 sides?
21 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' m going to ask you a ser ies
22 of quest ions. The f i rst quest ion I ' m going to ask, and then
23 we ' l l go down the l ine. You heard me ask this of the other
24 jurors , and that is two of the defendants charged here are
25 Afr ican-Amer ican . They ' re ent i t led to the same fai r t r ial you

141
1 would give anybody. Do you agree wi th that?
7 THE COURT: The government has the burden to prove
8 defendants gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt . If af ter you ' ve
9 heard al l the evidence the government has not met that burden
10 and you have a reasonable doubt , would you f ind the defendant
11 not gui l ty?
17 THE COURT: If the government has proved to your
18 sat isfact ion af ter you hear al l the evidence beyond a reasonable
19 doubt that a defendant is gui l ty, would you f ind that defendant
20 gui l ty?

142
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Discuss this among yourselves ,
2 and then I ' l l meet wi th you on the side. If the jurors in the
3 box or the other jurors want to stand up, you may do so. We ' re
4 t rying to proceed. We ' re into the lunch hour . If someone has
5 to quickly leave to get a dr ink of water or go to the bathroom,
6 now is the t ime to do i t . But I need you back here in about two
7 minutes. I ' l l give you three.
8 (Br ief pause . )
12 THE COURT: Any chal lenges for cause?
15 MR. TUNICK: Judge, I just would ask some fol low-up
16 quest ions to --
17 THE COURT: Wel l , no chal lenges for cause yet .
18 MR. TUNICK: I don ' t think i t r ises to the level yet .
19 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Then any fol low-up quest ions?
21 THE COURT: You had a fol low-up quest ion.
22 MR. TUNICK: Yes, wi th juror number -- I guess he ' s
23 number two now. I wasn ' t clear . Fi rst of al l , how long did he
24 work for OSHA?
25 THE COURT: Oh, I think i t ' s been qui te a long t ime,

143
1 since the late ' 80s.
2 MR. IASPARRO: He said since 1983.
3 THE COURT: What?
4 MR. IASPARRO: He said since 1983.
5 MR. TUNICK: I guess my fol low-up quest ions would be
6 who prosecutes the cases for OSHA, the OSHA violat ions. Who
7 does he work wi th. Does he work wi th prosecut ing at torneys.
8 THE COURT: I thought he said he worked wi th the
9 U .S. At torney ' s Off ice in Chicago. So, I ' m not going to ask him
10 that again.
11 MR. TUNICK: Because there ' s other -- I don ' t think the
12 U .S. At torney ' s just responsible for OSHA violat ions .
13 THE COURT: I ' ve had them in a cr iminal case, and he
14 said i t ' s involved in cr iminal cases. But I think there are
15 other -- you ' re r ight . There ' s administ rat ive problems. But he
16 said he ' s been involved in cr iminal prosecut ions.
17 MR. TUNICK: Wel l , then I would just -- you asked him
18 whether he ' s fami l iar wi th prosecut ing at torneys. I ' d l ike to
19 know whether he ' s fami l iar wi th defense lawyers and whether he ' s
20 had a chance to be quest ioned by them or interviewed by them or
21 spoken to them. Surely, he ' s indicated he ' s spoken to the
22 Assistant U .S. At torney on numerous occasions. And whether he ' s
23 had any negat ive exper iences from that .
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 MR. BYRD: Then on Mr . Long, Judge, we have a fol low-up

144
1 as to his uncle, the judge , and ask him whether he knows whether
2 or not when he was an at torney pr ior to becoming a judge he was
3 a prosecutor . I t sounded l ike he didn ' t know too much about i t .
4 THE COURT: Have you ever heard of a Judge Long?
5 MR. TUNICK: No.
6 THE COURT: You know, maybe i t ' s an administ rat ive
7 judge for al l we know . That ' s why I asked him. I never heard
8 of him in the federal system.
9 MR. BYRD: I haven ' t , ei ther .
10 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' l l see. That ' s Mr . Long.
11 Any other fol low-up?
12 MR. TUNICK: And, again , wi th juror number two, his
13 wi fe also worked wi th OSHA . So, I ' d just l ike to know i f she ' s
14 had any negat ive exper iences.
18 THE COURT: A couple of fol low-up quest ions that I want
19 to ask a couple of jurors. Mr . Long, you said that i t was your
20 uncle that was a former judge, and I think you said he was a
21 lawyer at a cer tain point in t ime; is that r ight?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He was a lawyer , yes, for many
23 years, and then I think the last couple of years he became a
24 judge.
25 THE COURT: Do you know whether he pract iced cr iminal

145
1 law?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I bel ieve he did corporate.
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: And he was a corporate judge or
5 something to do wi th corporate l i t igat ion.
6 THE COURT: You don ' t know whether he was, say, a
7 prosecutor or a defense at torney?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nei ther of those, I don ' t bel ieve .
9 THE COURT: Okay. Mr . Newquist , you had indicated that
10 you ' ve talked wi th the U.S . At torney ' s Off ice in some cr iminal
11 prosecut ions that your off ice probably ini t iated; is that r ight?
13 THE COURT: Do you ever talk wi th the defense at torneys
14 in those cases? Do you ini t ial ly talk wi th them or not?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. These are cases ready for
16 t r ial . They were just -- you know, l ike in the one case I would
17 go out and do an inspect ion of the company, and that case would
18 become relevant to the cr iminal case on another inspect ion. So,
19 we would not deal wi th defense at torneys at al l .
20 THE COURT: When your wi fe worked there, would she have
21 any relat ionship wi th the prosecutors or defense lawyers?

146
1 MR. TUNICK: Judge, I just think I have to move for
2 cause as to Mr . Newquist . He ' s too close to the prosecutors.
3 He ' s been working wi th them and prepares cases for t r ials wi th
4 them. Based on that , his wi fe also the same occupat ion, and the
5 length of t ime he ' s worked for the federal government , I don ' t
6 think he could be fai r .
7 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I think you can exercise a
8 peremptory i f that ' s i t , but I ' m not going to excuse him for
9 cause. He said he can be fai r . He ' s had some contact wi th the
10 U .S. At torneys, but he ' s never test i f ied. So, as far as I ' m
11 concerned, he ' s answered the quest ions that he can be fai r .
12 Wi th that , we ' l l star t -- the government wi l l go f i rst
13 on juror number two.
14 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts juror number two.
15 MR. BYRD: We ' l l st r ike number two.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' re st i l l exercising a
17 chal lenge for everybody.
18 MR. BYRD: Yes.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you . That ' s f ive.
20 Now we go to number three.
21 MR. BYRD: We accept .
23 three.
24 THE COURT: Then we ' l l go to number f ive.
25 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts number f ive.

147
1 THE COURT: Five.
2 MR. BYRD: We accept number f ive.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Now we go to number eight , and you
4 go f i rst .
6 MR. IASPARRO: We accept juror number eight .
7 THE COURT: And go to number nine .
9 nine.
10 MR. BYRD: We st r ike number nine.
11 THE COURT: You don ' t want two 80-year olds .
12 MR. BYRD: Two-hour breaks are good, but --
13 THE COURT: Now, when we come back, Iasparro went f i rst
14 on the last one. So, you guys are going f i rst on whoever we ' ve
15 got lef t , which would be number two and nine.
16 MR. TUNICK: Judge, i f I count correct ly, we have three
17 chal lenges -- or , actual ly, four chal lenges.
18 THE COURT: Four lef t .
21 THE COURT: Wi th thanks, I ' m going to excuse
22 Mr . Newquist and Mr . Smi th . Thank you, but you ' re excused. The
23 other three wi l l be jurors .
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Can I ask why?
25 THE COURT: No, that ' s pr ivate, but we appreciate i t .

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1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Is i t my age?
2 THE COURT: No. You ' re el igible as long as you want .
3 Would the three please r ise, raise your r ight hands,
4 and I ' l l administer the oath.
5 (Jurors duly sworn. )
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You are the next three jurors .
7 You can go back to the jury room. Then you can go to lunch.
8 I ' m going to proceed wi th the jury select ion in just a minute.
9 Don ' t discuss the case wi th anyone or al low anyone to discuss i t
10 in your presence . Don ' t discuss i t among yourselves . Be back
11 here at 1:30. I t might be a l i t t le af ter that when we star t ,
12 but be back at 1:30.
13 We ' l l cal l two names now. Seat number two and number
14 nine. Cal l some names.
15 THE CLERK: Kathleen Capcik , C-a-p-c- i -k, seat two.
16 Mary Meyer , M-e-y-e-r , seat nine.
17 THE COURT: Do you have a microphone? Al l r ight . I' ll
18 proceed. Let me ask both of you a quest ion. Do ei ther of you ,
19 af ter l istening to al l my quest ions, have any reason to tel l me
20 now why you could not be a fai r and impar t ial juror?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The par t about the guns . I was in
25 an establ ishment that was held up, an armed robbery, and I had a

149
1 gun put to my head, and I def ini tely cannot be fai r when i t
2 comes to guns.
3 THE COURT: I appreciate you tel l ing me that . I 'm
4 going to excuse you.
5 Did you have any reason that you ought to be excused?
7 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Cal l another juror .
8 THE CLERK: John Meyers, M-e-y-e-r-s.
9 THE COURT: Mr . Meyers , any reason why as you si t there
10 now you couldn ' t be fai r?
12 THE COURT: How old are you, si r?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I current ly l ive in Crystal Lake
16 for the past 20 years .
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Var ious nor thwest suburbs,
19 seven years in Michigan, and I grew up in Normal , I l l inois.
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Three.
24 THE COURT: Working?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Two are working. One is a student .

150
1 THE COURT: The two that are working, what do they do?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One is an at torney wi th the Federal
3 Trade Commission in Washington. The other is a teaching
4 assistant at the Universi ty of Iowa.
5 THE COURT: Teaching what subject?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mathemat ics.
7 THE COURT: The one who is a lawyer for the -- what
8 agency did you say?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Federal Trade Commission.
10 THE COURT: Has he worked in any other legal posi t ion
11 for any government agency?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She was an ant i t rust at torney for
13 the Depar tment of Just ice.
14 THE COURT: Ever a prosecutor in cr iminal cases?
16 THE COURT: How long has she been a lawyer?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: To the best of my knowledge, about
18 ten years.
19 THE COURT: And there ' s nothing about the fact she is a
20 lawyer for a government agency that in any way puts you on the
21 side of the government , is there?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not to my knowledge.
23 THE COURT: What ' s your employment?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a salesperson.
25 THE COURT: For what company?

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1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: A company cal led Solut ions by
2 Computer .
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Four years.
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sales posi t ions wi th other
7 companies, some of them rather shor t term.
8 THE COURT: Al l of your exper ience has been in sales?
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Since I star ted in the business
10 wor ld in 1976.
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . How about your wi fe?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She is a secretary at Crystal Lake
13 Cent ral High School in Crystal Lake.
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Five years.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She was a housewi fe for
18 approximately 17 years.
19 THE COURT: What products do you sel l?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sof tware.
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a Master ' s degree from the
23 Universi ty of Michigan.

152
1 THE COURT: Has anybody else in your fami ly worked for
2 the federal government other than your daughter?
4 THE COURT: And to your knowledge , in the ant i t rust
5 division of the Depar tment of Just ice , do you know what kind of
6 cases that she ' d be working on? I know they ' d be ant i t rust ,
7 but --
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have no knowledge at al l .
9 THE COURT: Did she get in cour t?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t know the answer to that .
11 THE COURT: And was that al l in Washington D.C.?
13 THE COURT: Have you anybody in your fami ly that ' s ever
14 sued an agency of the federal government?
16 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever worked in law
17 enforcement?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My brother was a civi l ian employee
19 of the Las Vegas Nevada Pol ice Depar tment . His son is current ly
20 a pol ice off icer .
21 THE COURT: And is that going to make any di fference as
22 far as you are concerned in fai r ly evaluat ing this case?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t bel ieve i t wi l l .
24 THE COURT: And you agree wi th me that a pol ice off icer
25 is ent i t led to no less nor more weight because that person wears

153
1 a badge?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I agree wi th you.
4 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th a law enforcement
5 off icer?
12 THE COURT: And do you belong to any clubs or
13 organizat ions?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not .
16 regulate cer tain types of cont rol led substances and make those a
19 THE COURT: And the same way wi th f i rearms. Do you
20 have any opposi t ion to laws that regulate and make cr iminal
21 possession of cer tain types of f i rearms?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not .
23 THE COURT: There may be evidence of gang membership
24 here. Wi l l you decide this case on the basis of al l the
25 evidence in the case and on the charges that the government has

154
1 brought?
3 THE COURT: And the fact of membership may be evidence,
4 but in and of i tsel f i t is not a cr iminal offense. Do you
5 understand that?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I understand that .
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not that comes to mind.
11 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Can you be fai r and impar t ial?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can.
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My name is Mary Meyer .
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m 50.
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m from Sandwich.
20 THE COURT: And how long have you l ived there?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Fi f teen years , except for
22 three years of school .
23 THE COURT: And that ' s in DeKalb?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That ' s in DeKalb County. It ' s
25 south of DeKalb.

155
1 THE COURT: That ' s in DeKalb County, I was going to
2 say. Now, who do you reside wi th?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I l ive alone r ight now.
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m a registered nurse at the
10 Universi ty of I l l inois Hospi tal .
11 THE COURT: Where is that?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That ' s in Chicago.
13 THE COURT: Do you commute there then?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve worked there 17 years.
17 THE COURT: And how long have you been a registered
18 nurse?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Close to 30 years. Pr ior to that I
20 was at Cook County Hospi tal .
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s a diploma program, nursing
23 school .

156
1 THE COURT: Anybody in your fami ly ever work for the
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My sister works for the Clerk of
4 the Ci rcui t Cour t of Kendal l County.
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That would be a county off ice .
7 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever worked or ever
8 sued the federal government?
10 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly ever worked in
11 law enforcement?
13 THE COURT: Have you or anyone in your fami ly had a
18 THE COURT: And you would judge the test imony of a law
19 enforcement off icer l ike any other wi tness , would you not?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, si r , I would.
23 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly ever been
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: An uncle.

157
1 THE COURT: What was i t and how long ago?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t was about 25 years ago. I t was
3 a domest ic case. He was charged wi th shoot ing his wi fe.
4 THE COURT: Is that -- you are aware of i t . Did you go
5 to the t r ial at al l?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Some of i t , but not al l of i t , no.
7 THE COURT: And as far as you are concerned , was there
8 anything about the prosecutor ' s off ice or the defense lawyers or
9 the invest igat ing off icers that in some way causes you as you
10 si t there now to be biased as far as the system goes?
12 THE COURT: That ' s something in the past , but you ' re
13 br inging i t out because I asked you.
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Correct .
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Do you belong to any clubs or
16 organizat ions?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Only nursing organizat ions, the
18 I l l inois Nurses Associat ion.
19 THE COURT: Now, do you have any opposi t ion to laws
20 that regulate cont rol led substances and make cer tain of those
21 i l legal?
24 prohibi t cer tain people from possessing a f i rearm?

158
1 THE COURT: And i f you hear evidence of gang
2 membership, wi l l you t reat that l ike any other evidence in the
3 case, but you would not convict just because of that evidence,
4 would you?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would not convict just because of
6 that evidence, no.
7 THE COURT: You would consider al l the evidence in the
8 case and the charges for which the defendants are charged?
14 THE COURT: You can be fai r and impar t ial?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I can.
16 THE COURT: I ' m going to ask you a couple of joint
17 quest ions l ike I ' ve asked before. Two of the defendants are
18 Afr ican-Amer ican . Wi l l you give them the same fai r t r ial that
19 you would give anyone else?
22 THE COURT: If the government , that has the burden of
23 proof , af ter you ' ve heard al l the evidence has not met i ts
24 burden of proof and that you have a reasonable doubt , would you
25 f ind a defendant not gui l ty?

159
3 THE COURT: If , on the other hand , af ter l istening to
4 al l the evidence the government has proved i ts case against a
5 defendant beyond a reasonable doubt , would you f ind that
6 defendant gui l ty?
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Thank you . Why don ' t you
10 discuss this, and then I ' l l meet you over at the side. If the
11 jurors want to stand up, but don ' t leave the room because I
12 think we ' re moving along here.
13 (Br ief pause . )
14 THE COURT: Al l r ight . If you ' re ready, I ' l l see you
15 over here.
20 THE COURT: Or fol low-up quest ions?
23 MR. BYRD: No.
24 THE COURT: Any fol low-ups?
25 MR. BYRD: No.

160
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You folks go f i rst on
2 Mr . Meyers.
3 MR. BYRD: We ' re going to excuse Mr . Meyers .
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Mary Meyer .
5 MR. IASPARRO: We accept Ms. Meyer .
6 MR. BYRD: We accept Ms. Meyer .
7 THE COURT: Al l r ight . We have seven that you ' ve
8 chal lenged, one that you ' ve chal lenged. We ' l l t ry and get the
9 last one.
10 MR. TUNICK: Judge, I ' m sorry. How many st r ikes on the
11 al ternates?
12 THE COURT: I just al lowed one, I think. Each side
13 one.
14 MR. TUNICK: Okay.
15 THE COURT: You don ' t have carryovers.
19 THE COURT: Mr . Meyers , you ' re excused . Ms . Meyer ,
20 you ' re going to be one of the jurors. Please r ise, raise your
21 r ight hand.
22 (Juror duly sworn . )
23 THE COURT: You wi l l be al lowed to leave. Go back to
24 the jury room, so you know where i t is. Come back at 1:30. And
25 don ' t talk wi th anybody about this case, including your fel low

161
1 jurors .
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay. Thank you, si r .
4 We ' l l proceed. We ' re looking for the f inal juror of
5 the twelve, and then we wi l l proceed to picking two al ternate
6 jurors . Wi th that , cal l a juror .
7 THE CLERK: Ray Spindler , S-p- i -n-d- l -e-r .
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' ve been out there. Is
9 there any reason why you feel you couldn ' t be a fai r and
10 impar t ial juror?
14 THE COURT: Where do you l ive?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rockton.
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Eight years.
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rockford. For my whole l i fe .
20 THE COURT: Who do you reside wi th current ly?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wi fe.
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Three.
24 THE COURT: Are any of them working?

162
1 THE COURT: What ' s your employment?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Pipef i t ter .
3 THE COURT: How long have you been in that work?
5 THE COURT: Do you work out of the union?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yep.
7 THE COURT: What about your wi fe? Is she employed?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Physical therapist .
9 THE COURT: Is she pr ivately employed or wi th a cl inic
10 or what?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: OSF.
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Fi f teen years .
14 THE COURT: What is your educat ional background?
16 THE COURT: Any mi l i tary?
18 THE COURT: Have you ever served as a juror?

163
1 enforcement?
4 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience in law enforcement that
5 could affect your abi l i ty to fai r ly judge a law enforcement
6 off icer ' s test imony?
8 THE COURT: You would t reat a law enforcement off icer
9 the same as any other wi tness, not give them any more or less
10 weight just because they wear a badge?
18 organizat ions?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just the union.
21 regulate the type of cont rol led substance a person may possess
22 and make that conduct i l legal?
24 THE COURT: Do you have any -- same way as far as
25 f i rearms. Do you have any opposi t ion or belong to any groups

164
1 that have opposed regulat ion of f i rearms?
3 THE COURT: As far as gang membership, you ' ve heard
4 that there may be evidence of that . That evidence alone is not
5 suff icient that a person is gui l ty of an offense, but i t may be
6 considered along wi th al l the other evidence. Do you agree wi th
7 me?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right . Yes.
9 THE COURT: Is there any quest ion I ' ve fai led to ask
10 you that you would br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may affect
11 your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
13 THE COURT: Would you be fai r and impar t ial?
15 THE COURT: Two of the defendants here are
16 Afr ican-Amer icans. They ' re ent i t led to the same fai r t r ial that
17 any other person is ent i t led to. You agree wi th that?
19 THE COURT: The government has to prove the defendants
20 gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt . If af ter you ' ve l istened to
21 al l the evidence and discussed i t wi th the other jurors you do
22 have a reasonable doubt , would you then f ind the defendant not
23 gui l ty?
25 THE COURT: If , on the other hand , the government does

165
1 prove i ts case beyond a reasonable doubt as to a par t icular
2 defendant , would you f ind that par t icular defendant gui l ty?
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Fi rst the lawyers can confer ,
5 and then I ' l l see you over there.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Any chal lenges for cause or
9 fol low-up quest ions?
11 THE COURT: Any chal lenge for cause or fol low-up?
13 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I think you go f i rst on this
14 one.
15 MR. BYRD: We excuse Mr . Smi th.
19 THE COURT: Wi th thanks, I want to excuse you.
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay. Thanks .
21 THE COURT: Cal l another juror .
22 THE CLERK: Timothy Swain, S-w-a- i -n.
23 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Mr . Swain , any reason why you
24 couldn ' t serve in this case and be fai r?

166
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The last 30 years.
7 THE COURT: And who do you l ive wi th?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My gi r l fr iend .
11 THE COURT: Is she employed?
13 THE COURT: Where does she work?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Gray ' s Foods.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Has she worked there awhi le?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, about three years .
17 THE COURT: What does she do there?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s a manager .
19 THE COURT: Okay. And your employment?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sel f-employed .
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a pr int ing company.
23 THE COURT: Commercial?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, smal l . I ' m the only
25 employee.

167
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . How long have you had that?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Over 20 years now.
3 THE COURT: Okay. And I take i t i t ' s just you, or do
4 you have par t - t ime help?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, just me , and she helps me,
6 too.
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: High school grad.
14 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever sued the
18 enforcement?
20 THE COURT: Have you or anyone in your fami ly ever had
21 a good or bad si tuat ion involving a law enforcement off icer?
23 THE COURT: So, you could judge a law enforcement
24 off icer just l ike you would judge anybody else?

168
3 THE COURT: Has anyone in your fami ly ever been charged
7 organizat ions?
10 would regulate cer tain cont rol led substances and make them a
14 opposi t ion to laws that would regulate the type of guns that
15 cer tain people can possess?
17 THE COURT: And you ' ve heard me talk about gang
18 membership. That alone, you cannot convict somebody for i t . Do
19 you understand that?
21 THE COURT: But there wi l l be evidence of that ,
22 probably, and you ' l l consider that evidence along wi th al l the
23 evidence in the case?
25 THE COURT: And i t won ' t prejudice you i f you heard

169
1 evidence of gang membership?
3 THE COURT: Is there anything I ' ve fai led to ask you
4 that you would br ing to my at tent ion now as i t may relate to
5 your abi l i ty to be fai r and impar t ial?
9 THE COURT: Wi l l you give -- two of the defendants are
10 Afr ican-Amer icans. Wi l l you give them the same fai r t r ial that
11 you would give anybody else?
13 THE COURT: And you ' ve heard me say the government has
14 the burden to prove each defendant gui l ty beyond a reasonable
15 doubt . If the government did not meet that burden and you had a
16 reasonable doubt , would you f ind a defendant not gui l ty?
18 THE COURT: And i f af ter you ' ve heard al l the evidence
19 you bel ieved that the government has met i ts burden to prove a
20 defendant gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt , would you f ind that
21 defendant gui l ty?
23 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' l l see the lawyers over there
24 as soon as they ' ve had an oppor tuni ty to discuss.
25

170
3 THE COURT: Any chal lenges for cause or fol low-ups?
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I think you go f i rst on this
6 one.
7 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts Mr . Smi th.
8 MR. BYRD: We accept Mr . Smi th.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' l l swear him in. And what
10 I ' m going to do is we ' l l cal l two as al ternates . I t ' s the f i rst
11 one that we both agree upon that wi l l be the f i rst al ternate.
12 Do you understand what I ' m saying?
14 THE COURT: The f i rst one that is agreed, not
15 necessar i ly that wi l l be in the f i rst al ternate , but the f i rst
16 one both of you agree upon .
19 THE COURT: You ' re going to be a juror this week .
20 There ' s not going to be much pr int ing this week . Would you
21 please r ise , raise your r ight hand?
22 (Juror duly sworn . )
23 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You wi l l be excused now to go
24 back to the jury room. Then go to lunch. Be back here at a
25 quar ter ' t i l 2:00. That gives you a l i t t le over an hour .

171
1 A JUROR: Okay.
2 THE COURT: Don ' t discuss the case wi th anyone or al low
3 i t to be discussed in your presence. Do you understand? Al l
4 r ight . Take him back .
5 We ' re going to proceed now wi th the select ion of two
6 al ternate jurors . Would the f i rst person cal led take the last
7 seat in the front row and the next person take the last seat in
8 the back row.
9 THE CLERK: Carol Daly, D-a- l -y. Gaylord Morr ison,
10 M-o-r-r- i -s-o-n.
11 THE COURT: I ' l l ask each of you the same quest ion.
12 You ' ve been both out there for qui te some t ime. Is there any
13 reason why ei ther of you feel that you could not be a fai r and
14 impar t ial juror in the case?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I feel l ike I could not , the more I
16 hear . My husband and I have raised four chi ldren, and that ' s
17 al l we ' ve preached is --
18 THE COURT: Wel l , okay. If you say you cannot be fai r ,
19 I wi l l understand. I wi l l excuse you .
21 THE COURT: How about you, si r? Is there any reason
22 why you could not serve as a fai r juror?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: There might be some quest ions that
24 I wouldn ' t be able to understand qui te how to answer them.
25 THE COURT: Would you prefer not to serve here?

172
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: If i t ' s possible, yes.
4 THE COURT: Cal l two more.
5 THE CLERK: Judi th Stavrakas, S- t -a-v-r-a-k-a-s.
6 Richard Michonski , M- i -c-h-o-n-s-k- i .
7 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Before I star t , let me ask you
8 this. Is there any reason ei ther of you feel that you could not
9 be fai r and impar t ial in the case?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have just -- I have had a niece
11 that ' s been in jai l wi th drug problems, and I also am not fond
12 of al l of the guns that are avai lable to people in our society
13 today. I t real ly bothers me.
14 THE COURT: Wel l , is that something that you feel that
15 you would factor in and consider in judging this case?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m not sure. I guess I would l ike
17 to think I ' m fai r , but i t bothers me wi th the gangs and the guns
18 and --
19 THE COURT: I ' l l excuse you . I know i t ' s t roubl ing
20 you, and i f you ' ve made that expression, I guess that ' s what I
21 want to hear , i f someone has a doubt .
23 THE COURT: You, si r?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m f ine .
25 THE COURT: You ' re okay. We ' l l cal l another juror .

173
1 THE CLERK: Mel issa Walker , W-a- l -k-e-r .
2 THE COURT: Any reason that you could not serve as a
3 fai r and impar t ial juror in this case?
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' m going to ask you both --
6 I ' l l star t wi th you, Ms. Walker , and ask you quest ions. How old
7 are you?
9 THE COURT: Where are you from? Where are you l iving?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ever since I was born.
13 THE COURT: Who do you l ive wi th?
15 THE COURT: I take i t your chi ldren are how old?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Babies.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And are you employed?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am.
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Blue Cross Blue Shield as a
21 customer service representat ive .
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: A year .
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Great West Insurance for ten years.

174
1 THE COURT: Where is that? Is that in Freepor t , or is
2 that here in Rockford?
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: They had an off ice here , but i t
4 closed .
5 THE COURT: Okay. And same posi t ion?
7 THE COURT: Your husband ' s employment?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. Oh, I ' m sorry. He ' s a
9 supervisor at Rockford Blacktop Const ruct ion.
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thi r teen years.
12 THE COURT: What is your educat ional background?
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a Bachelor ' s degree in human
14 resource management .
17 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly ever worked for
20 THE COURT: Have you ever sued the federal government?
22 THE COURT: Has anybody in your fami ly ever worked in
23 law enforcement?
25 THE COURT: Have you or anybody in your fami ly ever had

175
1 a par t icular ly good or bad exper ience wi th law enforcement that
5 THE COURT: And you would agree that a law enforcement
6 off icer is -- just because he wears a badge or she wears a badge
7 is not ent i t led to any greater or less weight than any other
8 wi tness?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Several .
15 THE COURT: When and what type of cr ime, i f you know?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , there ' s too many to name .
17 THE COURT: Okay. Wel l , then tel l me the relat ionship.
18 Has i t been any in your immediate fami ly, that is, brothers or
19 sisters?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Cousins.
21 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Cousins. And parents? Not
22 parents.
24 THE COURT: And have you ever at tended a t r ial where
25 any of these cousins have been on t r ial?

176
2 THE COURT: I take i t you ' re not too happy wi th them
3 being -- that they have been charged wi th offenses. Let me
4 rephrase that . You seem l ike you ' re disappointed in them having
5 been charged or not .
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , I mean, I don ' t one way or
7 another . I mean , you know , I ' m not happy that somebody --
8 anybody --
9 THE COURT: Have they been convicted of -- not only
10 charged, but convicted?
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t keep up, real ly. So, I
12 don ' t know.
13 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' m t rying to delve into how
14 close you are to those persons who have been charged and,
15 secondly, whether you fol lowed thei r cases and have any
16 disagreements wi th ei ther the pol ice charging them or know
17 anything about the conduct that they have been charged wi th.
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I didn ' t get into i t that deep.
19 I t ' s just l ike maybe my mom told me, you know, so and so, and
20 oh, okay, and then changed the conversat ion.
21 THE COURT: Do you see those persons at al l?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Rarely.
23 THE COURT: And do you know whether any of those
24 persons were involved in any gang act ivi ty?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I wouldn ' t know.

177
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And as far as you ' re concerned,
2 the fact that some of your relat ives have been charged is real ly
3 not going to factor into your decision in this case?
5 THE COURT: You can judge this case solely on the
6 evidence you have before you?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh , yeah .
8 THE COURT: And is there anything else in relat ion to
9 those persons who have been charged that you think would be
10 impor tant to disclose at this t ime?
12 THE COURT: Do you know whether any of those persons
13 have been charged in federal cour t?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t know. I don ' t think so.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Do you know i f i t ' s drug-related?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t know.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now, let me ask you . Do you
18 current ly belong to any clubs or organizat ions?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Just church.
20 THE COURT: And you ' ve heard me talk about the
21 charge -- at least one of the charges involves a conspi racy to
22 dist r ibute and possess wi th intent to dist r ibute cer tain drugs .
23 Do you have any opposi t ion to laws that make that a cr iminal
24 offense?

178
1 THE COURT: You ' ve also heard me say that several of
2 the defendants are charged wi th possessing a f i rearm in
3 fur therance of the drug conspi racy. Do you have any opposi t ion
4 to laws that make that i l legal?
6 THE COURT: You ' ve heard me ment ion there may be
7 evidence of gang membership. Gang membership of i tsel f is not a
8 cr iminal offense , but i t may be relevant to al l the issues in
9 the case. Wi l l you be able to judge this case on al l the issues
10 in the case and on the charges that these defendants face?
12 THE COURT: Is there anything I haven ' t asked you --
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nope.
14 THE COURT: -- that would affect you in any way in
15 being a fai r juror?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nope.
17 THE COURT: You would be a fai r and impar t ial juror ; is
18 that correct?
20 THE COURT: Pass the microphone back, please.
21 Al l r ight . Si r , your age?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' m 50 years old.
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I reside in Marengo.
25 THE COURT: In where?

179
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Marengo.
2 THE COURT: Okay. How long have you been residing
3 there?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Cary, 14 years.
11 THE COURT: Outside the home?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Outside the home.
13 THE COURT: Can you tel l me what they do for a l iving?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My daughter is current ly going to
15 SIU as a student , and my son is employed at McDonald ' s.
16 THE COURT: Are you employed, and what do you do?
18 THE COURT: Where do you do i t?
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work for Flext ronics as a tool
20 and die design engineer .
23 THE COURT: Your wi fe, is she employed?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, she ' s not .
25 THE COURT: Has she been employed in the last

180
1 ten years?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She has . She used to work as a
3 chi ropract ic assistant about four or f ive years ago.
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a tech school degree.
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was on the -- I served on the
8 grand jury down in the cour t at Woodstock about six or
9 seven years ago.
10 THE COURT: And you know that in a grand jury
11 proceeding, you just determine whether there ' s probable cause --
13 THE COURT: -- to charge somebody.
15 THE COURT: Did you hear many cases?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: There were several , yeah. We were
17 there al l week. So, we did hear several .
18 THE COURT: Okay. I don ' t know how they do a grand
19 jury proceeding in that county, but i t sounds to me l ike you
20 were there for one week.
22 THE COURT: And that was the extent of your grand jury
23 service?
25 THE COURT: So, you would hear evidence on a number of

181
1 cases?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That ' s r ight . There was several .
3 THE COURT: And did you work every day?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, we did, and i t was very
5 interest ing.
6 THE COURT: Were there any drug cases that you recal l?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I don ' t bel ieve there were.
8 THE COURT: Any gun cases that you recal l?
10 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And you understand the
11 di fference between the grand jury and this jury?
13 THE COURT: And there ' s nothing that ' s going to -- that
14 you gained from that exper ience that wi l l hold over here? This
15 is a total ly separate mat ter . You understand.
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Has anybody in your fami ly ever
18 worked for the federal government?
20 THE COURT: Has any fami ly member ever sued the federal
21 government?
24 enforcement?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Two of my cousins were Cary pol ice

182
1 off icers, but not my immediate fami ly.
2 THE COURT: Is that in any way going to inf luence you
3 in this case?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I don ' t think so. I t was
5 several years ago.
6 THE COURT: Wel l , you understand that just because a
7 person carr ies a badge or has a badge, they have no more weight
8 that you give them or any less weight than any other wi tness.
9 Do you understand that?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, that ' s r ight .
11 THE COURT: Have you or anybody in your fami ly had a
13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My brother- in- law several years
14 ago, but nobody in my immediate fami ly.
15 THE COURT: And was he -- when I say bad or good
16 exper ience, which was i t?
17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He was arrested for a drug
18 violat ion.
19 THE COURT: And is that in any way going to inf luence
20 you?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don ' t think so. I t was about
22 20 years ago.
23 THE COURT: And did you bel ieve that he was gui l ty or
24 bel ieve that he was not gui l ty or don ' t you know?
25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We knew he was gui l ty.

183
1 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And did you have any complaint
2 about the way the off icers t reated him?
4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Have you ever test i f ied in a
5 cr iminal case?
6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have not .
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Wel l , my brother- in- law .
10 THE COURT: Other than that .
11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Other than that in my immediate
12 fami ly, no.
14 organizat ions?
16 THE COURT: Now, one of the charges is the conspi racy
17 charge to dist r ibute or possess wi th intent to dist r ibute
18 cer tain cont rol led substances. Do you have any disagreement
19 wi th laws that regulate that?
22 opposi t ion to laws that regulate guns?
24 THE COURT: You ' l l hear evidence, perhaps, of gang
25 membership. That in and of i tsel f is not a cr ime.

184
2 THE COURT: If there is such evidence, i t wi l l be the
3 evidence that you consider along wi th al l the other evidence in
4 the case as i t relates to the charges that have been brought .
5 Just because a person is a gang member , is that going to be
6 enough for you to convict?
8 THE COURT: You ' l l give a person a fai r t r ial ; is that
9 r ight?
11 THE COURT: Anything I ' ve fai led to ask you that you
12 would br ing to my at tent ion at this t ime as i t may affect your
13 abi l i ty to be a fai r and impar t ial juror?
14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I don ' t think so.
15 THE COURT: You could be fai r and impar t ial?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I could.
17 THE COURT: A couple of quest ions that I ' m going to ask
18 both of you . Two of the defendants are Afr ican-Amer icans . Is
19 there any -- they are ent i t led to the same fai r t r ial anybody
20 would get . Do you agree wi th that?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do, yes.
23 THE COURT: The government has the burden to prove the
24 defendants gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt . If af ter you ' ve
25 heard al l the evidence as to a par t icular defendant the

185
1 government has not proved i ts case beyond a reasonable doubt and
2 you have a reasonable doubt , would you then render a not gui l ty
3 verdict as to that defendant?
6 THE COURT: And i f , on the other hand, af ter you ' ve
7 heard al l the evidence the government has proved i ts case
8 against a defendant beyond a reasonable doubt , would you f ind
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You people talk, and then I ' l l
13 hear you at the side.
14 (Br ief pause . )
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Any chal lenges for cause or
18 fol low-up from the government?
20 THE COURT: Any chal lenges for cause or fol low-ups?
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The government wi l l go f i rst on
23 the f i rst one. That would be Ms. Walker .
24 MR. IASPARRO: The government accepts Ms. Walker .
25 MR. BYRD: We accept .

186
1 THE COURT: You go f i rst on the next one.
2 MR. BYRD: We excuse Mr . Michonski .
3 THE COURT: Al l r ight . We ' l l pick -- you ' re out of
4 chal lenges.
7 THE COURT: Ms. Walker wi l l remain. Mr . Michonski ,
8 you ' re excused. I want to thank you.
9 Ms . Walker , would you stand and raise your r ight hand?
10 (Al ternate Juror duly sworn . )
11 THE COURT: Go back to the jury room. You ' re excused
12 for lunch. Be back at 2:00 o ' clock. Don ' t discuss the case
13 wi th anybody.
14 Cal l another juror to take the second seat .
15 THE CLERK: Rober t Highsmi th , H- i -g-h-s-m- i - t -h.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Mr . Highsmi th, any reason why
17 you couldn ' t serve as a juror in this case?
19 THE COURT: How old are you , si r?
22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Roscoe.
23 THE COURT: How long have you l ived in Roscoe?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Five and a hal f years.

187
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Arkansas, two and a hal f years.
3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Roscoe, f ive years .
4 THE COURT: Where did you grow up?
5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Terre Haute, Indiana.
9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, she does . I ' ve got two
10 stepchi ldren wi th her .
11 THE COURT: Can you tel l me what they do for a l iving?
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One is a pol ice off icer in Madison,
13 Wisconsin. The other one ' s a computer exper t .
14 THE COURT: The one who ' s a pol ice off icer , do you see
15 him of ten?
16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I t ' s a she.
17 THE COURT: Do you see her of ten?
18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Maybe once, twice a month.
19 THE COURT: And do you ever discuss cases wi th her?
21 THE COURT: You ' ve heard me ask the quest ions about
22 other jurors who have relat ions who are in law enforcement . Is
23 that in any way going to affect you and are you going to
24 consider i t at al l that you have a stepdaughter who is involved

188
2 THE COURT: Do you know what that person does in terms
3 of law enforcement?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s a pat rol off icer on the
5 st reet .
6 THE COURT: And how long has she been in that?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Eight years.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . But she doesn ' t -- she ' s not
9 assigned to a par t icular uni t , meaning --
11 THE COURT: -- a narcot ics uni t or --
12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She just pat rols a cer tain area.
13 THE COURT: I got you. Al l r ight .
14 And you would judge the test imony of a pol ice off icer
15 just l ike anyone else , not giving that pol ice off icer any more
16 or less weight as a wi tness?
18 THE COURT: Tel l me your employment , si r .
19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I ' ve been ret i red for ten years
20 from Chrysler Motors.
21 THE COURT: Out at Belvidere plant?
23 THE COURT: And what did you do there?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: When I ret i red, I was in
25 maintenance .

189
1 THE COURT: And your wi fe, is she employed?
2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She ' s ret i red , too.
3 THE COURT: Where did she work?
4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Beloi t Corporat ion . She was a
5 computer programmer .
6 THE COURT: How long had she worked there?
10 THE COURT: Have you ever been a juror before?
15 THE COURT: Anyone in your fami ly ever sued the federal
16 government?
18 THE COURT: Anyone besides your stepdaughter in your
19 fami ly work in law enforcement?
22 par t icular ly good or bad exper ience in any pol ice si tuat ion?
23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a grandson that was arrested
24 for armed robbery.
25 THE COURT: Was that in the Rockford area?

190
1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, that was down in Flor ida .
2 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And is there anything as a
3 resul t of that that in any way causes you to be prejudiced
4 against the government?
6 THE COURT: Was the person prosecuted by the State of
7 Flor ida author i t ies?
8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, he was.
9 THE COURT: And as far as you ' re concerned, is there
10 any other exper ience that your fami ly has had wi th law
11 enforcement?
15 THE COURT: Any persons in your fami ly been charged
16 wi th a cr iminal offense other than the one down in Flor ida?
19 organizat ions?
20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I belong to the UAW union.
21 THE COURT: You ' ve heard me say that one of the charges
22 is a conspi racy to dist r ibute or possess wi th intent to
23 dist r ibute cer tain cont rol led substances. Do you have any
24 opposi t ion to such a law?

191
1 THE COURT: There also is a charge here regarding
2 possession of a weapon in fur therance of the conspi racy. Do you
3 have any opposi t ion to laws that would regulate who can possess
4 a weapon?
6 THE COURT: You heard me say that there is maybe
7 evidence of gang membership by one or more of the defendants.
8 That would just be evidence, but that ' s not suff icient of i tsel f
9 to convict somebody. Do you agree?
10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I agree.
11 THE COURT: And you ' d weigh that evidence, i f there is
12 gang membership, as i t relates to al l the other evidence in the
13 case and the charges in order to determine whether a person is
14 gui l ty or not gui l ty?
15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Correct .
16 THE COURT: Anything that you have in the back of your
17 mind that you want to tel l me as i t may relate to your abi l i ty
18 to be fai r and impar t ial?
21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Beg your pardon?
22 THE COURT: You can be fai r and impar t ial to both
23 sides?
24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can be fai r and impar t ial .
25 THE COURT: And you wi l l give the two defendants here

192
1 who are Afr ican-Amer ican the same fai r t r ial that you would give
2 anybody else?
4 THE COURT: If the government does not prove i ts case
5 beyond a reasonable doubt , that is, i f you had a reasonable
6 doubt as to a defendant , would you render a not gui l ty verdict?
7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would render a not gui l ty
8 verdict .
9 THE COURT: If the government does prove to you beyond
10 a reasonable doubt that a defendant is gui l ty, would you f ind
14 I ' l l see the lawyers over at the side.
17 THE COURT: Any chal lenges for cause or fol low-up?
20 MR. BYRD: No.
21 THE COURT: You can go f i rst .
22 MR. IASPARRO: We accept , Judge.
23 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That juror is accepted as a
24 second al ternate . I ' m going to swear them in and excuse the
25 rest . I ' l l probably take the not gui l ty pleas at this t ime,

193
1 probably resume here at a quar ter af ter . Al though, I ' d l ike --
2 I ' ve got a couple of things I want to talk to you about before
3 we actual ly star t the opening statements. So, be back here
4 about ten af ter , and have your cl ient back here .
5 MR. BYRD: We ' re going to do the pleas?
6 THE COURT: We ' l l do the pleas before.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight , si r . You are an al ternate
10 juror . Do you want to r ise, please? Raise your r ight hand.
11 (Al ternate juror duly sworn . )
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You are the -- you can join the
13 other jurors; al though, they may be out for lunch. Take an
14 hour . I t ' s f ive af ter 1:00 now. Be back here by f ive af ter
15 2:00.
16 A JUROR: Okay.
17 THE COURT: Don ' t discuss the case wi th anybody.
18 A JUROR: Right .
20 For those of you who remain, I want to thank you for
21 being present in the cour t room. I usual ly t ry to complete the
22 jury select ion process by noon, but somet imes i t goes longer . I
23 wanted to go into the lunch hour simply because then you would
24 know whether you ' re going to be a juror or not . I want to thank
25 you.

194
1 You ' re going to have to check wi th the Clerk ' s Off ice ,
2 unless they ' ve al ready told you whether you ' re st i l l subject to
3 jury service in the future , meaning in the next month or so. I
4 don ' t know what that is.
5 Wi th that , you ' re excused wi th our thanks.
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Would the lawyers and thei r
9 cl ients please step forward?
10 Al l r ight . I have been informed by my deputy clerk
11 that when the second superseding indictment was returned that
12 there was never a formal arraignment before me or before the
13 magist rate judge . Is that your understanding, Mr . Iasparro?
14 MR. IASPARRO: That ' s r ight , Judge.
15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Each of you should know that
16 there is what ' s cal led a second superseding indictment that was
17 returned when, Mr . Iasparro?
18 MR. IASPARRO: That was returned, Judge, on
19 February 20th, 2007.
20 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That was some t ime ago. And I
21 take i t the lawyers have al l received copies of the second
22 superseding indictment .
23 MR. TUNICK: Yes, your Honor .
24 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, si r .

195
1 THE COURT: And discussed that wi th your cl ients?
2 MR. TUNICK: Yes.
5 THE COURT: And I think the change that I ' ve been told
6 about is that -- i t doesn ' t relate, I bel ieve, to Mr . Lee Al len.
7 MR. IASPARRO: That ' s correct .
8 THE COURT: I t would just relate to Mr . McSwain and
9 Mr . Dodson, and i t just is a di fferent way in which the in
10 fur therance -- the way in which the counts other than the
11 conspi racy count are al leged. I t more par t icular izes the
12 conduct , that is , the conduct is possession of a f i rearm in
13 fur therance of the conspi racy. You al l have explained that to
14 your cl ients; is that correct?
15 MR. BYRD: Yes, si r .
16 MR. SULLIVAN: We discussed i t .
17 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Now , I take i t that they -- as
18 to defendant Lee Al len, he would plead not gui l ty?
19 MR. TUNICK: Yes, Judge. We would plead not gui l ty and
20 waive the formal reading.
21 THE COURT: Thank you. Do you, as wel l , plead not
22 gui l ty?
23 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes. Don Sul l ivan on behal f of Bradford
24 Dodson . We would enter a plea of not gui l ty, and we would waive
25 reading of the formal charges.

196
1 THE COURT: Thank you. Mr . Byrd.
2 MR. BYRD: Your Honor , on behal f of Mr . McSwain, we
3 would waive formal reading and persist in our not gui l ty plea.
5 I t is now ten af ter 1:00. I ' l l need the lawyers and
6 the defendants back here at ten af ter 2:00, and we wi l l resume .
7 I do want to discuss just br ief ly a couple legal mat ters. It
8 may relate to the opening statements. So, that ' s why I want to
9 discuss that , but we wi l l star t the t r ial . I ' l l be giving
10 prel iminary inst ruct ions to the jury and then your opening
11 statements, and you people -- you have wi tnesses, Mr . Iasparro,
12 I take i t?
13 MR. IASPARRO: We do, Judge.
14 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Anything else?
15 MR. TUNICK: Judge, could we be let back in the
16 cour t room -- I not ice i t was locked last t ime -- dur ing the
17 lunch hour?
18 THE COURT: Wel l , we t ry to keep i t locked for a
19 reason . Do you want to -- would you prefer to -- we could put
20 you in a -- i f you want to do some work, I ' l l give you a
21 conference room.
22 MR. TUNICK: The problem is I have my computer here.
23 If I could just -- i f we could just --
24 THE COURT: Tel l me how long -- when you want to get in
25 here.

197
1 MR. TUNICK: I ' l l be back in 20 minutes, 25 minutes.
2 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I wi l l al low him -- and do you
3 want your cl ient in here?
4 MR. TUNICK: No, I don ' t need my cl ient .
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You just be back here at ten
6 af ter . But al low him in and then lock i t up.
7 THE COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Sure .
8 MR. TUNICK: Thank you , Judge.
9 THE COURT: And i f you want to get out , you ' re going to
10 have to bang on the door .
11 MR. TUNICK: I ' m used to that .
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That ' s al l .
13 (Whereupon, the wi thin t r ial was recessed to 2:10 o ' clock
14 p. m. of the same day. )
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

198
1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
2 WESTERN DIVISION
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Docket No. 05 CR 50082

)
4 Plaint i ff , ) Rockford, I l l inois
) Monday, May 14, 2007
5 v. ) 2:10 o ' clock p.m.
)
6 MONTRELL MC SWAIN, )
BRADFORD DODSON, and LEE )
7 ALLEN, )
)
8 Defendants. )
9 VOLUME 1
TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
10 BEFORE THE HONORABLE PHILIP G. REINHARD, and a jury
11 APPEARANCES:
12 For the Government : HON. PATRICK J. FITZGERALD

Uni ted States At torney
13 (308 West State St reet ,
Rockford, I l l inois 61101) by
14 MR. MICHAEL F. IASPARRO
MR. MARK T. KARNER
15 Assistant Uni ted States At torneys
16 For the Defendant McSwain: BYRD & TAYLOR

(308 W. State St reet , Sui te 450,
17 Rockford, I l l inois 61101) by
MR. MARK A. BYRD
18
For the Defendant Dodson: MR. DONALD P. SULLIVAN
19 (One Cour t Place, Sui te 101,
Rockford, I l l inois 61101)
20
For the Defendant Al len: MR. JAMES D. TUNICK
21 (53 W. Jackson St reet , Sui te 1362 ,
Chicago, I l l inois 60604)
22
Also Present : MR. STEPHEN SMITH
23 Special Agent , ATF
24 Cour t Repor ter : Mary T. Lindbloom

211 South Cour t St reet
25 Rockford, I l l inois 61101
(815) 987-4486

199
3 THE COURT: Is everybody here?
4 MR. IASPARRO: I bel ieve so, Judge.
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Before I al low the defendants
6 and the government to address me as to any issues that they may
7 have before I br ing the jury in, I do want to make sure that
8 both sides understand my rul ings as i t relates to the mot ion in
9 l imine regarding the shoot ing evidence that would be against the
10 defendant Bradford Dodson as i t relates to the McDonald ' s
11 shoot ing.
12 I have indicated to you that Rule 403 appl ies and that
13 what I ' m t rying to do in the 403 analysis here is that I ' ve
14 found i t ' s relevant , but to make sure that evidence is not
15 unduly prejudicial against the defendant Dodson .
16 I have read the government ' s response to Dodson ' s
17 mot ion , which speci f ies what this shoot ing is about and what
18 evidence they would propose to offer . And , as far as I ' m
19 concerned, as I ' ve al ready stated, I bel ieve that i t , number
20 one, is relevant because that relates to the reason and the
21 extent to which the defendants operated thei r drug conspi racy,
22 al legedly, and used weapons in fur therance of i t , and that to
23 protect thei r turf and to enforce thei r rules, they used
24 weapons, which is charged -- at least two of the defendants are
25 charged wi th possessing a weapon in fur therance of the offense .

200
1 So, i t ' s very relevant to those issues. However , the cour t
2 admonishes the government that the proof of the McDonald ' s
3 shoot ing wi l l be l imi ted, and I ' m t rying to make sure then that
4 i t ' s br ief and that i t doesn ' t have gruesome detai ls , and i t ' s
5 not cumulat ive.
6 So, in that respect as to the McDonald ' s shoot ing, I
7 wi l l al low -- my understanding is that cer tain of the
8 codefendants who are going to test i fy and according to some of
9 the evidence that is on tape that there are statements made by
10 the defendant Dodson that would be relevant to that issue . And
11 so, I wi l l al low br ief test imony in that regard on that subject .
12 I wi l l also al low one pol ice off icer just to test i fy to
13 the bare detai ls that there was a shoot ing, that there was a
14 McDonald ' s shoot ing, but I don ' t want him to get into more
15 detai ls much more than that as to who was the vict im and what
16 day i t was that they invest igated i t . Not much more .
17 Now, the government has said that i t also wants to
18 int roduce evidence of another shoot ing, and I have said I ' m not
19 sure that that would be al lowed. Af ter looking at i t fur ther
20 and looking at the case law, I am going to prohibi t the
21 government from br inging in any evidence dur ing thei r opening
22 statement as i t relates to that . I ' l l have to see where the
23 t r ial goes, but you ' re not to ment ion that other shoot ing or any
24 other shoot ings in your opening statement . Now , I may consider
25 i t at a later point , but you ' ve got to br ing i t up outside the

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1 presence of the jury before you enter i t .
3 THE COURT: So, that ' s my rul ing as to that . Any
4 quest ion about that?
6 THE COURT: The other issue relates to gang membership,
7 and I ' ve al ready said that I would al low evidence of that , but I
8 just want to clar i fy to make sure that both sides again
9 understand why I ' m doing i t , because I ' ve looked at both an
10 older case about gang membership , which was Uni ted States v.
11 Lewis, which is 910 F.2d 1367, but also I have had a case that
12 went up to the appel late cour t several years ago, and the law is
13 wel l stated in that case, Uni ted States v. Montgomery, which is
14 at 390 F.3d 1013.
15 And the Cour t of Appeals has stated that we want to
16 make sure that the judges examine wi th care and thoroughness the
17 admission of evidence of gang involvement evidence because that
18 is l ikely to cause undue prejudice. Wel l , I have considered i t .
19 I ' ve considered the fact that the government has presented me
20 wi th a lengthy evident iary proffer regarding admission of
21 coconspi rator statements, which also speci f ies al l these
22 statements that are being made, and i t appears to me to be that
23 from the beginning several persons were members of this gang,
24 which or iginated in Chicago, came out to Rockford, and that the
25 membership cont inued, added members, and that McSwain and Dodson

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1 were ear ly members, and that ' s the glue that kept this
2 conspi racy together , al l these older members, and that i t ' s a
3 uni t ing factor , and i t helps prove the conspi racy. And i t also
4 shows the mot ivat ion for having f i rearms for protect ion of thei r
5 t rade, and I think the tapes wi l l show evidence of violence and
6 how the gang kept together discipl ine wi thin the membership, as
7 wel l as protect ion of the assets that were der ived from this
8 i l legal operat ion.
9 So, I think i t explains mot ive behind the cr imes
10 charged, not only the conspi racy, but also the possession of the
11 weapon in fur therance of i t , and I ' m al lowing the gang
12 membership, a l imi ted amount of evidence as to that regard, but
13 I ' m going to tel l the government not to dwel l on that . You may
14 put i t in, but don ' t dwel l on i t .
15 So, I think that ' s an elaborat ion of my rul ings. Right
16 now we ' re ready to go into my prel iminary remarks to the jury.
17 Is there anything else that ei ther side has to br ing up?
18 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, Agent Smi th wi l l test i fy for the
19 government f i rst . One of the exhibi ts we intend to int roduce
20 wi th him is a summary exhibi t that has been prepared that
21 out l ines the actual video cl ips that the government wi l l play.
22 I ' ve given copies of that to defense counsel . I ' d l ike to give
23 a copy to you, as wel l .
24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Any defense lawyer want to say
25 anything before we star t?

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1 MR. TUNICK: Yes, your Honor . For purposes of today,
2 we have one video screen. I t ' s not -- I ' d have to move over . I
3 real ly don ' t want the jurors to think that we ' re operat ing in
4 concer t l ike --
5 THE COURT: Wel l , i f you want to si t -- do you want to
6 move your chai r over a l i t t le?
7 MR. TUNICK: To this table?
8 THE COURT: No, just sl ide i t over .
9 MR. TUNICK: To see this screen?
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 MR. TUNICK: I was thinking for purposes of tomorrow i f
12 i t ' s possible we could set up another screen.
13 THE COURT: Another screen there?
14 MR. TUNICK: Yes.
15 THE COURT: Do you have another one?
16 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, we do not have another of these
17 moni tors.
18 THE COURT: Another moni tor is al l we ' re asking.
19 MR. IASPARRO: That ' s the cour t ' s equipment . We don ' t
20 have one.
21 MR. BYRD: There ' s one here. Perhaps we could move
22 this one over to the table .
23 THE COURT: I ' l l look into i t .
24 MR. TUNICK: Thanks.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . You ' re ready to proceed?

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2 THE COURT: Get the jurors.
5 THE COURT: Good af ternoon. I t ' s nice to see al l of
6 you again. I think I recognize you. We wi l l proceed wi th the
7 t r ial .
8 I ' m going to give you some prel iminary inst ruct ions,
9 and I hope this wi l l assist you in your understanding of the
10 case. You wi l l receive wr i t ten inst ruct ions at the end of the
11 case, and you ' l l be al lowed to take those into the jury room,
12 but from t ime to t ime throughout the t r ial , I wi l l give you
13 inst ruct ions, and I wi l l rule on mat ters of evidence and law,
14 but I ' m going to now explain a few things that hopeful ly wi l l
15 give you some insight into your responsibi l i t ies.
16 Fi rst , you wi l l be the sole t r iers of fact , and you ' l l
17 determine that by l istening to the evidence, and that wi l l be in
18 the form of wi tnesses , i t wi l l be in the form of exhibi ts , and
19 some of the exhibi ts wi l l actual ly be -- you ' l l see a video of
20 some of the events.
21 The determinat ion of the jury on issues of credibi l i ty
22 of wi tnesses is solely up to you , and as I think I told you
23 ear l ier , you can decide to bel ieve completely a wi tness, bel ieve
24 some of what a wi tness says, or nothing of what a par t icular
25 wi tness has said . And I wi l l give you inst ruct ions later on as

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1 to what you should look for in terms of evaluat ing the
2 test imony. But again remember that nothing I say or do dur ing
3 this t r ial has any bear ing on any feel ing that I have as to the
4 gui l t or innocence of these defendants. That ' s up to you .
5 Now, you wi l l hear evidence that there are other
6 defendants that have been charged in this conspi racy. You are
7 not to consider any of the -- t ry to speculate or consider that
8 fact , except i f a test i fying codefendant test i f ies, then you may
9 l isten to that test imony and evaluate i t for yoursel f . But
10 today we have three defendants on t r ial , and those are the only
11 ones that you ' re to consider . Don ' t speculate on why others are
12 not before you.
13 Next , you wi l l hear the lawyers in a few moments make
14 opening statements. What they say is designed to tel l you what
15 they think the evidence wi l l show, but i t ' s not evidence. The
16 evidence is what you hear from the wi tness stand and what
17 exhibi ts I al low into evidence. At the end of the case, the
18 lawyers wi l l make arguments, which are cal led f inal arguments,
19 as to what they think the evidence has shown. Again , that ' s not
20 evidence, but i t ' s what they think i t has shown .
21 Dur ing the course of the t r ial , there wi l l be
22 object ions made by the lawyers, and they should be making
23 object ions. That ' s thei r r ight , both sides. I wi l l rule on
24 those object ions . And i f I sustain an object ion, that means the
25 quest ion that was asked was somehow improper , and you should not

206
1 consider the quest ion . Don ' t speculate on what the quest ion
2 might have been designed to get at . If the wi tness answered the
3 quest ion before I had a chance to rule, st r ike that from your
4 considerat ion. When I sustain an object ion -- and don ' t t ry to
5 think why is he rul ing this way. I ' ve ruled, and you cannot
6 hear that quest ion. If I overrule an object ion , that means the
7 quest ion was proper , and you may consider that answer along wi th
8 al l the other evidence in the case.
9 Now, you must decide this case based on the evidence
10 that you hear in this cour t room. Don ' t discuss the case wi th
11 anyone , including your fel low jurors, unt i l I tel l you you can
12 discuss i t wi th your fel low jurors, and that won ' t be unt i l al l
13 the evidence is in and the f inal arguments are over wi th. So,
14 keep your thoughts to yoursel f .
15 Don ' t read, see, or hear anything about this case on
16 radio, television, or in the newspaper . I don ' t know whether
17 there wi l l be any press coverage of this. But just remember i f
18 you should spot that , you ' re not to consider i t , not to read i t .
19 If you inadver tent ly heard something, simply disregard i t .
20 Don ' t do any independent invest igat ion of this case.
21 Don ' t t ry to look up on your computer about whatever you might
22 be interested in . Don ' t talk to your spouse. Don ' t go to the
23 dict ionary. Don ' t do anything. Just rely on what you hear in
24 cour t . And that ' s the way you proper ly hear a cr iminal case.
25 Here are some basics that I ' ve al ready told you about ,

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1 but I want to rei terate, and that is that al l defendants are
2 presumed innocent . The government has to prove each count as to
3 each defendant beyond a reasonable doubt , and the defendants,
4 just because they ' re charged in an indictment , i t ' s no evidence.
5 And the defendants do not have to test i fy. They can rely on the
6 pr inciple of presumpt ion of innocence .
7 Each defendant ' s case must be decided separately, and
8 each count must be decided separately, and , as I told you , the
9 evidence may be signi f icant ly di fferent as to each defendant ,
10 and I wi l l at tempt to from t ime to t ime say this evidence is
11 only appropr iate to a cer tain defendant or defendants and not to
12 another . And counsel wi l l probably assist me in that role in
13 object ing and asking that I consider i t only against a cer tain
14 defendant , but I wi l l t ry to keep t rack of that . But , remember ,
15 you wi l l decide this case separately on each defendant and on
16 each count .
17 And wai t unt i l al l the evidence is in before you make a
18 f inal conclusion . You wi l l make tentat ive conclusions on the
19 basis of what you hear , but don ' t get so f ixed that you ' re going
20 to disregard other evidence that you hear .
21 Now, the government wi l l explain to you the charges in
22 a few minutes, and I just want to elaborate on what you should
23 be looking for . Two of the defendants are charged wi th a
24 conspi racy, and a conspi racy is to commi t an i l legal act , and in
25 this case the i l legal act is the possession and intent to

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1 del iver cer tain cont rol led substances . In this case i t ' s heroin
2 and crack cocaine, which is commonly known as cocaine base.
3 In order to prove a conspi racy, which a conspi racy is
4 two or more people joined to commi t an i l legal act , you must
5 f i rst f ind that there was such a conspi racy, that two or more
6 people entered into agreement for an unlawful purpose, and,
7 secondly, you must prove that a defendant -- and these are the
8 defendants McSwain and Dodson -- knowingly became a member of
9 the conspi racy wi th the intent ion to fur ther the conspi racy.
10 So, as to those persons, you have to determine whether they
11 joined a conspi racy wi th the intent ion to fur ther the
12 conspi racy. And f inal ly as to conspi racy, you wi l l determine
13 the amount of cocaine base or heroin that was involved.
14 As to the defendant Lee Al len, he is not charged wi th a
15 conspi racy. He ' s charged wi th aiding and abet t ing the
16 conspi racy, and the government must prove as to him that the
17 conspi racy that was charged as to the other two existed and,
18 secondly, that the defendant Al len knowingly aided the
19 conspi racy wi th an intent ion to fur ther the conspi racy, and
20 then, thi rd , the amount of mixtures of cocaine or cocaine base
21 which were the object of the conspi racy.
22 And aiding and abet t ing is as fol lows. The person must
23 knowingly associate wi th the cr iminal act ivi ty, par t icipate in
24 the act ivi ty, and t ry to make i t succeed. Essent ial ly, that ' s
25 what the government must prove as to conspi racy and aiding and

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1 abet t ing a conspi racy.
2 As to the other charges against the defendant Dodson
3 and McSwain , they must show that each of them on the occasion
4 that they ' re charged wi th possessed a f i rearm in fur therance of
5 that conspi racy. So, that means i t must have gone to advance or
6 assist or help promote or commi t that conspi racy that has been
7 charged in Count 1.
8 I ' ve given you notebooks. Wr i te your names on the
9 front of the notebooks, and the reason I say that is because
10 they wi l l be col lected at the end of the day. Nobody wi l l look
11 at them. They ' l l be put on my desk, and then at the end of the
12 t r ial , they ' re dest royed. They ' re not evidence . They ' re not
13 anything other than for your personal convenience.
14 If you wish to take notes, take them. If you don ' t
15 wish to take notes, you don ' t have to take them. I t ' s purely up
16 to you what you want to do. Now , this case, as I told you,
17 might last at least through this week and into next week. So,
18 i t might be helpful , i f you think i t ' s helpful , to take cer tain
19 notes because the case is not just a two or three-day t r ial .
20 You also should know that just because somebody wr i tes
21 something down and later when you come to del iberate the case, a
22 person says , "Wel l , I wrote i t down, so this is a fact ," wel l ,
23 others ' memor ies may be di fferent , and i t ' s your col lect ive
24 memor ies which count . So, just because a person wrote i t down ,
25 they could have been mistaken in how they wrote i t down.

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1 Because I ' m going to tel l you, I t ry to take notes, and I f ind
2 i f I ' m wr i t ing something down and then the next quest ion is
3 being asked and the answer is coming out , i t ' s di ff icul t to take
4 notes and l isten to a sequence of answers. So, that ' s why
5 you ' re for tunate . You ' ve got twelve minds that wi l l get
6 together at the end of the case. But take notes to the best of
7 your abi l i ty. Some of you may be used to in your professions or
8 occupat ions at taking notes, but i t ' s your col lect ive memor ies
9 that count .
10 Dur ing the course of the t r ial , you ' re not al lowed to
11 talk wi th each other when wi tnesses are on the stand . I do not
12 al low jurors to ask quest ions. And i f you cannot hear a
13 wi tness, don ' t hesi tate -- or i f you can ' t hear a lawyer ask a
14 quest ion -- now, the lawyers wi l l be up at that podium, but
15 somet imes they ' l l turn thei r head or do something. If you want
16 the quest ion repeated , just raise your hand, and I ' l l have i t
17 done because we want you as jurors to understand al l the
18 evidence and be able to hear i t .
19 I think this case wi l l go as smoothly as possible.
20 Occasional ly I might have to meet wi th the lawyers i f there ' s an
21 object ion that I don ' t ful ly understand, and I might have a
22 sidebar outside your hear ing, and we ' l l resolve i t there. But
23 for the most par t I ' ve asked the lawyers when they have
24 object ions that they can ant icipate, we ' l l do those dur ing the
25 recess or at the end of the day, so that I don ' t ant icipate you

211
1 wi l l be going in and out of the cour t room at al l , except on your
2 regular breaks that you ' l l be taking, one in the morning and one
3 in the af ternoon . We ' l l be working from 9:00 to 5:00, and I ' m
4 t rying to get you to hear this case in as quick a fashion as you
5 can so that you can remember everything.
6 Final ly, let me tel l you that this is a smal l
7 cour thouse. We ' ve got one elevator . You ' l l probably be coming
8 up on the elevator , and you may come up wi th the lawyers, you
9 may come up wi th any other par t icipants in the t r ial or
10 wi tnesses. Don ' t talk wi th them other than to nod your head and
11 say hel lo. I don ' t want you to engage in any conversat ion wi th
12 these people, and I have inst ructed the people present here
13 along those l ines.
14 I need al l of you here prompt ly at the r ight t ime. You
15 can see that i f some juror is late, we just can ' t wai t -- I
16 mean, we need everybody because we have wi tnesses l ined up
17 throughout the day each day. So, I ' m insist ing that al l of you
18 please be prompt . I don ' t think any of you come from that far
19 away. I don ' t think we have anybody over at the Mississippi , do
20 we, in Carrol l or Whi teside County? So, I think the far thest
21 may be an hour , hour and a quar ter . But be here on t ime.
22 Final ly, the lawyers wi l l address you in a few minutes,
23 and then you ' l l hear the t r ial . My cour t repor ter here is
24 taking notes, but these are not automat ical ly t ranscr ibed into a
25 t ranscr ipt . So, you don ' t have that avai lable. So, remember

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Iasparro - Opening Statement
1 the test imony. Wi th your col lect ive minds , you ' l l be able to do
2 that .
3 Wi th that , we shal l proceed. Mr . Iasparro or whoever
4 is going to proceed for the government , go ahead.
6 OPENING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT
7 MR. IASPARRO: For most people the urban st reet gang is
8 nothing more than a feature ar t icle in a Sunday newspaper , a
9 12-minute segment on 20/20 or 60 Minutes, a Hol lywood movie
10 about young out laws in a faraway place. What wi l l unfold before
11 you in this cour t room over the course of the next several days
12 is the real i ty of st reet gang l i fe in Amer ica, st reet gang l i fe
13 r ight here in this communi ty, r ight here in Rockford , I l l inois .
14 Between 2001 and September of 2005, members and
15 associates of the Ti tanic Stones st reet gang, a st reet gang
16 which has i ts roots in Chicago, I l l inois, operated in excess of
17 a dozen drug houses here in Rockford, sel l ing large amounts of
18 heroin and, star t ing in the summer of 2005 , crack cocaine to
19 drug customers here in the st reets of Rockford.
20 On t r ial in this cour t room are two core members of that
21 Ti tanic Stones st reet gang, Mont rel l McSwain and Bradford
22 Dodson , two men who from at least 2003 unt i l September 2005 sold
23 heroin and at t imes crack cocaine in Rockford, I l l inois, out of
24 mul t iple drug houses operated by the Ti tanic Stones, regular ly
25 possessed f i rearms at those drug houses in fur therance of the

213
1 drug t raff icking conspi racy they were members of , and in the
2 case of Bradford Dodson used gun violence to fur ther the goals
3 of this conspi racy.
4 Also before you is a man named Lee Al len, a man who
5 aided and abet ted the Ti tanic Stones st reet gang, that drug
6 conspi racy, and he did so by for t i fying the doors at several of
7 the gang ' s drug houses, for t i f icat ions in the nature of
8 two-by-four cross braces, which he and his brother Cl int Al len
9 instal led across the doors , for t i f icat ions in the nature of
10 barrel bol ts which were instal led at the top and bot tom of the
11 doors which made i t more di ff icul t for , number one, r ivals to
12 get inside and, more impor tant ly, for pol ice off icers to get
13 inside , more di ff icul t and more dangerous. Those for t i f icat ions
14 that this defendant and his brother did at several of this
15 gang ' s drug houses aided this conspi racy. I t fur thered i ts
16 goals, i t helped this conspi racy succeed, and i t helped cause
17 the damage that this conspi racy ul t imately did to this communi ty
18 in Rockford , I l l inois .
19 Star t ing in 2001, a man by the name of Darrel l Davis,
20 who also went by the nickname Duck and somet imes the nickname
21 Clue, began coming out to Rockford, I l l inois, and began sel l ing
22 amounts of heroin on the st reets of Rockford, and ul t imately his
23 sales became so st rong that he recrui ted associates, some
24 members of the Ti tanic Stones st reet gang that he knew from
25 Chicago, to come out here and help him in the sale of that

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1 heroin on the st reets of Rockford and ul t imately set t ing up drug
2 houses to sel l heroin from. Some of those members were Steven
3 "Li t t le Steve" Easter , Ambrose "Brose" Jones, Anthony "Bones"
4 Glover , Mont rel l ' ' Trel l ' ' McSwain, Bradford ' ' Hust ler ' ' Dodson,
5 and others. Those persons came out to Rockford . They worked
6 for Darrel l Davis. They sold drugs on his behal f . They
7 operated at his di rect ion.
8 Here ' s how the conspi racy worked. Darrel l Davis would
9 ident i fy houses that he wanted to operate as drug houses. He
10 typical ly had a female rent the house on his behal f in that
11 female ' s name to distance himsel f from that house. He would pay
12 the female for doing that . They ' d set the house up as a drug
13 house, physical ly move in furni ture, and then begin sel l ing
14 drugs. When the conspi racy was operat ing at i ts st rongest ,
15 there was one house on the East Side of Rockford and one house
16 on the West Side of Rockford, and when there was a house on both
17 sides and i t was going ful l t i l t , the gang could make as much as
18 $5,000 a day sel l ing heroin.
19 Di fferent gang members, including these two defendants,
20 McSwain and Dodson, were assigned to work at var ious drug
21 houses . They were given shi f ts , and these shi f ts rotated . When
22 i t was Defendant McSwain ' s turn to work at a drug house, he ' d
23 work there for a mat ter of days , a mat ter of weeks, whatever the
24 case may be , sel l ing drugs , and they sold drugs at 6:00 a .m.
25 just l ike they did at 6:00 p.m. This is a 24-hour a day

215
1 business, and they operated those drug houses 24/7.
2 Darrel l Davis was the leader of this conspi racy, and
3 nobody is going to disagree wi th that . He had his source of
4 supply for heroin and later crack cocaine in the ci ty. He went
5 into Chicago in his Cadi l lac Escalade , and he picked up heroin
6 and he picked up crack cocaine, and he brought i t back to
7 Rockford, typical ly brought i t back to his gi r l fr iend ' s house
8 over on Chestnut , a gi r l name Jameah Fl int , who you ' l l hear
9 test imony about .
10 1534 Chestnut is where Darrel l Davis and somet imes his
11 helpers mixed and packaged the drugs for st reet sale . Darrel l
12 Davis would get the drugs in a large quant i ty at a wholesale
13 rate. He ' d mix i t up wi th what is commonly cal led Dormin , dorms
14 for shor t , which is a sleep aid . Empty the capsules of Dormin ,
15 mix i t wi th the heroin to increase i ts volume. In the case of
16 the crack cocaine, he would mix the cocaine, powder cocaine,
17 wi th baking soda , cook i t on a stove, and form i t into the base
18 form or rock form of cocaine.
19 Those were then packaged into the user dosages, user
20 quant i t ies, typical ly $20 bags, which this gang referred to as
21 dubs. Darrel l Davis would take a pack of those $20 bags, a pack
22 of those dubs, to the drug houses, del iver i t to the workers, to
23 men l ike Mont rel l McSwain and Bradford Dodson, and say, "Here
24 you go. Sel l this." Maybe i t ' s a $2 ,500 pack of drugs.
25 Darrel l Davis ul t imately picks up $2 ,000, and these guys get to

216
1 keep $500 of i t . The customers at these drug houses , somet imes
2 wai t ing in l ine to buy $20 bags of heroin, $20 bags of crack
3 cocaine. When the houses were sel l ing both, heroin was referred
4 to as sof t , crack cocaine referred to as hard.
5 Over the course of this conspi racy, the Rockford Pol ice
6 Depar tment executed a number of search warrants at Darrel l
7 Davis ' and the Ti tanic Stones ' drug houses . Drug houses at t ract
8 at tent ion. Law-abiding ci t izens who l ive in those neighborhoods
9 not ice when there is a large volume of t raff ic in and out on a
10 regular basis of houses in thei r neighborhood. They cal l the
11 pol ice . The Rockford Pol ice Depar tment executed a number of
12 search warrants which you ' l l hear test imony about at a number of
13 these houses.
14 As par t of those search warrants, they saw a pat tern
15 develop, and that pat tern was every t ime they hi t a house , two
16 to three workers at that house, for t i f icat ions on the doors,
17 which made i t di ff icul t for them to get inside at t imes, and
18 of ten by the t ime they eventual ly would get inside, they only
19 recovered, i f at al l , smal l amounts of cont rol led substances,
20 smal l amounts of heroin, smal l amounts of crack cocaine. We ' l l
21 get back to that a l i t t le later , but one of the predominant
22 reasons for that were the for t i f icat ions which al lowed men l ike
23 Mont rel l McSwain and Bradford Dodson to get r id of whatever
24 cont rol led substances they had, f lush i t down the toi let ,
25 swal low i t in cases, which you ' l l hear test imony about , gave

217
1 them t ime to get r id of the evidence.
2 As t ime went on, 2001 turns into 2002, ' 3, ' 4. This
3 gang gets st ronger . St ronger and st ronger , and they get bolder
4 and bolder , and one of those acts of boldness played out on
5 February 8th, 2005, at the McDonald ' s restaurant at the corner
6 of Cent ral and Auburn St reets here in Rockford. Somet ime before
7 a man named Jul io Al len had commi t ted a home invasion at one of
8 the gang ' s drug houses, r ipped off Steven Easter , who was
9 working at the house, caused some injur ies to Mr . Easter and
10 some other folks who were working at one of the gang ' s drug
11 houses , and i t was t ime for payback.
12 Members of this gang knew who Jul io Al len was. Darrel l
13 Duck Davis gave the order . He gave the order to that man
14 si t t ing r ight there, Bradford Dodson. He said, "Get him, " and
15 that ' s exact ly what Bradford Dodson t r ied to do. He went to
16 McDonald ' s that night about 5:00 o ' clock in the af ternoon , took
17 out his gun , and he f i red several rounds through the plate glass
18 window , hi t t ing Jul io Al len in the but tocks. I t was a
19 superf icial wound, but a shoot ing in retal iat ion for a home
20 invasion that Jul io Al len had commi t ted nonetheless. An act of
21 boldness, gun violence in fur therance of this conspi racy that
22 you ' l l hear test imony about .
23 In the spr ing of 2005, the Rockford Pol ice Depar tment
24 got together wi th the Bureau of Alcohol , Tobacco, Fi rearms &
25 Explosives, a bureau that ' s par t of the Depar tment of Just ice,

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1 and they decided enough is enough. These acts of violence,
2 boldness, the st rong gang that ' s on the st reets of Rockford has
3 to come to an end. So, they targeted the gang as a whole , and
4 that ' s what br ings us into this cour t room today.
5 Beginning in the spr ing of 2005, the ATF and the
6 Rockford Pol ice Depar tment gathered as much histor ical
7 informat ion as they could about members of the Ti tanic Stones,
8 about thei r operat ions, the way that they worked. They were
9 aided by persons who wanted to provide informat ion anonymously.
10 One of those persons was one of the females that I ment ioned
11 before who had been approached by members of the gang, Steven
12 Easter and Darrel l Davis, to rent a house on thei r behal f .
13 Unbeknownst to them, she was working wi th the ATF and the
14 Rockford Pol ice Depar tment .
15 Fear ing for her safety, but nonetheless concerned about
16 what was going on in the st reets of Rockford, she agreed to wear
17 a wi re in her meet ings wi th Steven Easter and Darrel l Davis, a
18 wi re in meet ings where they discussed a house that was to be
19 rented and used for drug t raff icking. That house turned out to
20 be 1023 Kishwaukee, a house that you are going to be int imately
21 fami l iar wi th before this t r ial is over .
22 The ATF orchest rated the cont rol led meet ings between
23 this conf ident ial informant , Darrel l Davis , and Steven Easter ,
24 secured the proper cour t author i ty to wi re up that house. The
25 technical people of ATF and the Rockford Pol ice Depar tment went

219
1 in, and they wi red that house for video and audio, and they had
2 cameras and microphones in the ki tchen, dining room, and l iving
3 room of 1023 Kishwaukee, and on August 9th , 2005, when those
4 cour t orders were signed, the keys were turned over to Darrel l
5 Davis and Steven Easter , and wi thin a mat ter of hours they
6 star ted moving in. They star ted moving in . Bradford Dodson
7 there helps carry furni ture in on day one, August 9th, 2005,
8 wi thin hours of the keys being turned over .
9 Ladies and gent lemen, what you are going to see in this
10 cour t room is the ul t imate in real i ty television . Drug deal ing,
11 guns, talking about violence. This is real l i fe st reet gang
12 l i fe on the st reets of Rockford, I l l inois. I t ' s very real , and
13 at t imes i t is ext remely chi l l ing.
14 August 11th, 2005 , Mont rel l McSwain on video, "We ' ve
15 been jukin ' for four years ." Jukin ' , you ' l l hear from men l ike
16 Bobby Harr is, Ambrose Jones, and Dupree Turner , codefendants who
17 have agreed to cooperate in this case , jukin ' is sel l ing drugs .
18 Mont rel l McSwain says on camera , "We ' ve been jukin ' for
19 four years, " which is the t ruth . They had been jukin ' for
20 four years.
21 McSwain ment ions the two spots, they could make up to
22 f ive grand a day. I t ' s not a number that we pul led out of thin
23 ai r . That ' s something that they say. And you ' l l hear how much
24 heroin , how much crack cocaine were going through these houses ,
25 just 1023 Kishwaukee in par t icular , and you ' l l know that $5,000

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1 a day is a very real est imate.
2 August 12th, 2005 , Bradford Dodson makes a comment ,
3 "Crack is free enterpr ise. " He and his coconspi rators are in
4 the house talking about a r ival ry wi th another gang here in
5 Rockford, and Dodson makes the comment that "Crack is free
6 enterpr ise. Anybody can sel l crack," referr ing to crack
7 cocaine.
8 Anthony Glover says, "I shoot f i rst and ask quest ions
9 later , " and Bradford Dodson responds, "On Stone ," a phrase that
10 you ' l l hear t ime and t ime and t ime again, "On Stone. " Remember
11 the name of this gang, the Ti tanic Stones. That ' s something
12 that these gang members say when they real ly mean what they just
13 said or they agree wi th something that was just said to them.
14 "I shoot f i rst and ask quest ions later ." Bradford says, "On
15 Stone. "
16 A l i t t le later in that conversat ion, Bradford Dodson
17 says, "I threw a par ty at the McDonald ' s because of Bone. " Bone
18 is a man named Anthony Glover , who ' s par t of that conversat ion .
19 A par ty, you ' l l hear , is a slang term for a shoot ing, and you ' l l
20 hear evidence of the shoot ing that Bradford Dodson did at the
21 McDonald ' s.
22 August 19th, 2005 , Bradford Dodson walking into the
23 l iving room, Dupree Turner r ight there, Bradford Dodson pul ls
24 out a big pack of dope and says , "I ' ve got this big pack of dope
25 in my pocket ." There ' s no secret about what they ' re doing

221
1 there. They talk about i t freely because they don ' t know the
2 eyes are in the sky, but they were.
3 August 26th, 2005 . On that date the ATF and the
4 Rockford Pol ice Depar tment executed a search warrant at 1525
5 12th St reet , another of the gang ' s drug houses that they had
6 only been operat ing for a couple of days. We knew i t was a new
7 drug house. Darrel l Davis drove a Cadi l lac Escalade . On that
8 Cadi l lac Escalade, pursuant to cour t order , was a GPS t racking
9 device , unbeknownst to him, and the pat tern that developed from
10 that GPS t racking device showed that whenever gang members were
11 out of dope at 1023 Kishwaukee or other dope houses, they
12 chi rped Darrel l Davis on a Nextel phone, a walkie- talkie feature
13 of Nextel phones some of you may be fami l iar wi th.
14 Shor t ly af ter that chi rp was received, Darrel l Davis in
15 his Cadi l lac Escalade , usual ly dr iven by a man named Ambrose
16 Jones, went to 1534 Chestnut , that house I told you about a
17 l i t t le ear l ier where they mixed and packaged drugs, picked up a
18 packet of heroin or crack cocaine, dropped i t off at the drug
19 house, whether i t be 1023 Kishwaukee, 1525 12th St reet .
20 The pol ice depar tment and the ATF knew that Darrel l
21 Davis had just made a drop at 1525 12th St reet . They had a
22 search warrant in hand, and they hi t 1525 12th St reet . They
23 excused that search warrant . And lo and behold inside are
24 Steven Easter , Bobby Harr is, Dupree Turner , Anthony Glover , and
25 Mont rel l McSwain . Steven Easter is frant ical ly at the toi let in

222
1 the bathroom of that smal l apar tment , and he ' s f lushing. He ' s
2 t rying to f lush the dope. But i t got clogged. I t was a bad day
3 for Steven Easter and this gang.
4 The big pack of dope that had just been del ivered got
5 clogged, and the pol ice and the ATF were able to recover i t .
6 And what they recovered was a ful l pack, 95 individual ly wrapped
7 $20 baggies of heroin . 95 t imes 20. You can do the math . Just
8 one pack. And those packs were del ivered several t imes per day
9 to mul t iple drug houses when the gang was operat ing east and
10 west , up to $5,000 per day easy.
11 On that day, August 26th, 2005, af ter the search
12 warrant , many of the gang members ret reated back to 1023
13 Kishwaukee, a house they ' re st i l l using to sel l drugs out of .
14 They ' re concerned that pol ice may come and execute another
15 search warrant there. They don ' t know i f the pol ice know about
16 1023 Kishwaukee yet . So, they want addi t ional for t i f icat ions
17 done at that house. And who did they cal l? They cal l Cl int
18 Al len and his brother , this defendant , Lee Al len.
19 Cl int Al len and Lee Al len show up , and Cl int says, "I
20 want you guys to be safe," al l in the context of two-by-four
21 boards being brought in, bol ts and locks and al l kinds of
22 hardware that these defendants buy, Cl int Al len and his brother
23 here buy at a local hardware store, br ing to a drug house , and
24 put on the doors to for t i fy the doors . At one point Lee Al len
25 turns to some of the gang members and says , "Hey, I didn ' t

223
1 guarantee the doors over on 12th St reet ." I t ' s not his faul t
2 that pol ice got in. And there ' s addi t ional conversat ion about
3 how many hi ts i t took the pol ice to get in the house .
4 August 28th, 2005 , Mont rel l McSwain to a customer , "I
5 sel l heroin , baby." August 28th , 2005, Mont rel l McSwain to
6 Bobby Harr is and Dupree Turner , "I sel l crack. I shoot guns so
7 you can sel l crack." And September 5th, 2005, perhaps the most
8 tel l ing statement in the ent i re case, Mont rel l McSwain just
9 couldn ' t keep his mouth shut , "We got the biggest and best dope
10 in Rockford ." And they did for a long t ime. 2001 to 2005.
11 What you ' l l see at 1023 Kishwaukee, in summary, is
12 these defendants in act ion . Sel l ing drugs , possessing f i rearms,
13 talking about drug t raff icking, talking about gang membership,
14 talking about the use of f i rearms, for t i fying the doors wi th
15 only one purpose .
16 And nobody from the government is going to pretend that
17 Lee Al len as he si ts there today or back in 2004, 2005 was a
18 gang member . He cer tainly was not a member of the Ti tanic
19 Stones . He ' s charged wi th aiding and abet t ing this conspi racy.
20 He aided and abet ted i t by for t i fying those doors, al lowing this
21 conspi racy to succeed , making i t more di ff icul t --
22 MR. TUNICK: Object ion to that character izat ion, Judge.
23 That ' s not the law.
24 THE COURT: I ' ve explained what the law is, and the
25 jury wi l l get an inst ruct ion on i t . Go ahead.

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1 MR. IASPARRO: From the video and audio footage at 1023
2 Kishwaukee, from the pol ice off icers who wi l l test i fy about the
3 many search warrants done at this gang ' s drug houses over the
4 years, from codefendants and fel low gang members Ambrose Jones ,
5 Bobby Harr is, and Dupree Turner , from al l of those sources of
6 informat ion , you ' re going to be lef t wi th a por t rai t of gang
7 l i fe in Amer ica, gang l i fe in Rockford, I l l inois, at t imes only
8 mi les and blocks from this federal cour thouse. A very real , a
9 very chi l l ing scene of gang l i fe in Amer ica, of a drug
10 conspi racy as i t works on the st reets of Rockford, I l l inois, of
11 the coordinat ing members Mont rel l McSwain, Bradford Dodson doing
12 what they did best , and Lee Al len, to fuel his drug habi t ,
13 helping them as best he could.
14 This gang is about a drug conspi racy. I t is about
15 drugs, guns , and violence. You wi l l hear test imony about that
16 over the course of the next several days. I wi l l have an
17 oppor tuni ty to address you again at the end of the case. I
18 thank you for your at tent ion now . When I do address you again ,
19 I wi l l be asking you to return verdicts of gui l ty. Thank you
20 very much.
21 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The next person from the
22 defendants wi l l be Mr . Tunick, who wi l l speak on behal f of his
23 cl ient .
24 MR. TUNICK: Thank you , Judge.
25

225
Tunick - Opening Statement
1 OPENING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT ALLEN
2 MR. TUNICK: Now, the government has charged a
3 conspi racy, and i t ' s in this indictment . And as Mr . Iasparro
4 told you, the charge of the conspi racy is from 2001 to September
5 13th, 2005, and the conspi racy al leges, as the prosecutor set
6 out , that a gang cont rol led several drug houses and dist r ibuted
7 narcot ics from these drug houses .
8 Now, Lee Al len isn ' t charged as a coconspi rator , and
9 they made that clear . He ' s al leged to have somet ime -- not in
10 2001 or 2002 or 2003, for that mat ter , or 2004 -- somet ime af ter
11 this conspi racy had been going on and dist r ibut ing drugs out of
12 several drug houses, somet ime in 2005 he put locks and bol ts and
13 some other brackets on some doors in these crack houses, in
14 these houses. That ' s what he ' s charged wi th. He ' s charged wi th
15 aiding and abet t ing the conspi racy by put t ing bol ts and locks on
16 the doors.
17 Now, the law is, as the judge told you , that he has to
18 have the intent to fur ther the conspi racy. He has to associate
19 wi th the cr iminal act ivi ty, intend to make i t succeed. That ' s
20 the law. You ' l l see that Lee Al len, his whole intent , was to
21 fur ther his drug habi t . He was addicted to opiates, and I ' m
22 going to get into that in a second. But he did not intend for
23 this conspi racy that he did not have knowledge about -- the
24 government had a camera and video in there . Lee Al len didn ' t .
25 He was just a drug user , a funct ional drug user .

226
1 He ' s a mechanic. He used to own his own auto repai r
2 shop in Rockford . He was a mechanic. Now working six days a
3 week. Now he is a mechanic in someone else ' s automobi le shop,
4 l ikely due to his addict ion to opiates. And I ' m going to talk
5 fur ther about his intent .
6 Now, wi l l you see in this case any evidence that Lee
7 Al len dist r ibuted narcot ics? Absolutely not . Wi l l you see any
8 evidence that Lee Al len assisted in the dist r ibut ion of
9 narcot ics? Never . Wi l l you see evidence that he assisted wi th
10 the purchase of narcot ics for resale? No, absolutely not . Wi l l
11 you see evidence that he assisted in the t ranspor tat ion of
12 narcot ics? There wi l l be no such evidence , ladies and
13 gent lemen. Wi l l you see evidence that he assisted wi th the
14 concealment of narcot ics? The government wi l l not produce
15 evidence of that , ei ther . Wi l l you see evidence that he
16 concealed assets , that he assisted in the t ransfer or
17 concealment of currency? No, no, no.
18 Wi l l you see evidence that he assisted wi th providing
19 these locat ions where drugs were sold , that he assisted in
20 helping these coconspi rators f ind the locat ions to sel l? No,
21 no. You won ' t see any evidence of that . Wi l l you see evidence
22 that he was aff i l iated or a member of the Ti tanic Stones? No.
23 The government conceded that in thei r opening statement . Wi l l
24 you see any evidence that he shared any of the prof i ts of the
25 sale of the drugs? Absolutely not .

227
1 Wi l l you see evidence that he provided or concealed
2 weapons or he provided intel l igence informat ion? No, absolutely
3 not . Wi l l you see evidence that he assisted in the mixing and
4 packaging of narcot ics? No, you won ' t see any evidence of that .
5 Wi l l you see evidence that he recrui ted others to assist in the
6 sales of narcot ics? No.
7 The only thing he ' s accused of doing is put t ing locks ,
8 bol ts, and brackets on two doors or two houses ' doors, actual ly.
9 The government might say three, but the evidence you ' l l see was
10 two.
11 Now, why is Lee Al len here? Why is he here? You have
12 to be asking yoursel f that quest ion. He ' s accused, as they set
13 out , of aiding and abet t ing this conspi racy, but there ' s
14 dist inct legal requi rements to aiding and abet t ing a conspi racy,
15 and the government must prove that beyond a reasonable doubt .
16 They have to prove those elements beyond a reasonable doubt .
17 They have to prove that he intended to make this conspi racy
18 succeed, that he associated knowingly wi th this cr iminal
19 act ivi ty. They won ' t be able to prove that , ladies and
20 gent lemen. They wi l l not even be able to prove i t . They won ' t
21 come close to proving i t beyond a reasonable doubt . And that ' s
22 why at the end of this t r ial I ' m going to ask that you f ind him
23 not gui l ty.
24 Why did Lee Al len get involved in this? You ' l l see.
25 He was addicted to opiates . His brother , Cl inton Al len, who the

228
1 government is going to cal l as a wi tness against his own
2 brother -- and you ' l l see why, you ' l l understand why when he
3 gets on the wi tness stand. But his brother int roduced him to
4 some people who sold narcot ics where he can get his f ix and that
5 he became -- you know , when you see someone a lot of t imes, you
6 become fr iendly wi th them. I t ' s just a mat ter of course, no
7 mat ter who they are. If he knew everything that the government
8 knows through three secret video cameras and audio cameras, he
9 probably wouldn ' t have been involved in this.
10 Now, when you see the tapes, you ' l l see that Lee Al len
11 says, "I got my f ix. I can get out of here. I don ' t even want
12 to stay here. I don ' t even want to be here." Okay. His intent
13 is not to fur ther this conspi racy or this al leged conspi racy.
14 These guys know he ' s an addict . They cal l him a hype. They
15 cal l these people hypes. The people that are sel l ing narcot ics,
16 they know Lee Al len. They know how to use him. They know for a
17 lousy bag that probably cost them two dol lars, maybe a dol lar ,
18 they could get him to f ix the doors, something they couldn ' t get
19 a locksmi th to do for two dol lars. They used him. You ' l l see
20 that on the tapes. You ' l l see how they play him.
21 Now, Lee Al len, he cooperated wi th these guys. He
22 cooperated wi th law enforcement . Detect ive Cunningham
23 interviewed him, and Detect ive Cunningham, says , "Wel l , do you
24 know these guys?" "Wel l , yeah. Yeah , I know them." "Did you
25 do anything?" "Yeah, I put some locks and brackets and some" --

229
1 whatever else -- "bol ts. I put them on the doors." And
2 Detect ive Cunningham says, "Okay. Thank you." I think he even
3 signed a wr i t ten statement that Detect ive Cunningham wrote.
4 Then they give him a grand jury subpoena. They put
5 him -- Mr . Iasparro puts him in front of the grand jury wi thout
6 a lawyer . He doesn ' t have a lawyer . He might have done
7 something wrong --
8 MR. IASPARRO: Object ion, Judge.
9 THE COURT: Don ' t argue that issue before -- you may
10 proceed.
11 MR. TUNICK: Wel l , Judge, I ' m just saying --
12 THE COURT: You can tel l that he test i f ied before the
13 grand jury, and that ' s i t .
14 MR. TUNICK: Al l r ight . He test i f ied voluntar i ly. He
15 test i f ied on his own vol i t ion. He didn ' t take the Fi f th
16 Amendment . He was put on the grand jury by Assistant U.S .
17 At torney Michael Iasparro, and he told them, "Yeah, I put some
18 nuts and bol ts on the doors." Next thing you know, he ' s charged
19 wi th aiding this conspi racy.
20 Now, as I told you, aiding and abet t ing is a very
21 dist inct federal cr ime, i ts own elements. And you ' l l see a lot
22 of people did things. You ' l l have to determine for yoursel f
23 whether his act ions meet the law , meet the law beyond a
24 reasonable doubt . But you have to hold your duty as jurors
25 close to you at al l t imes because he ' s presumed innocent , and

230
1 Lee Al len, as he si ts there r ight now , he ' s absolutely presumed
2 innocent , and you ' l l be advised that the presumpt ion stays wi th
3 him throughout the course of the ent i re t r ial . And i f you
4 presume him innocent and you hold the government to i ts burden
5 of proof beyond a reasonable doubt , there ' s no way that you can
6 f ind him gui l ty of aiding and abet t ing this al leged conspi racy.
7 You ' l l see the evidence yoursel f . You ' l l hear the
8 wi tnesses. You ' l l see the tapes. He ' s on a couple tapes . He ' s
9 on a couple tapes put t ing bol ts and locks on the doors. You ' l l
10 see those tapes. But you ' l l never see his intent to fur ther the
11 conspi racy. You ' l l never see him associate wi th the conspi racy,
12 the cr iminal act ivi ty, wi th knowledge , wi th the intent to make
13 i t succeed. You ' l l never see that because that wasn ' t his
14 intent . His intent was to get a f ix for himsel f , and that wi l l
15 be clear to you. I said he was a heroin addict . As he si ts
16 there today, he ' s not .
17 Look. Al l we ask of you is that you be fai r and
18 impar t ial , you uphold your dut ies as jurors. That ' s your duty.
19 That ' s why we picked you people . Al l we ask is that you keep an
20 open mind through the course of this t r ial . Let me ask the
21 wi tnesses quest ions before you make up your mind. The
22 government ' s going to put them on f i rst . I ' m going to get a
23 chance to ask them quest ions, i f they say anything about my
24 cl ient . But keep an open mind. Hold the government to i ts
25 burden of proof . Presume him innocent . Approach this the way

231
1 your job as jurors is supposed to, and there ' s only one
2 conclusion you can come up wi th. You wi l l f ind him not gui l ty
3 af ter the close of evidence in this case.
4 I ' l l have one more chance to talk to you folks. At the
5 end of the case af ter al l the evidence is in, as the judge told
6 you, we ' l l get a chance to summar ize the evidence, summar ize the
7 facts that you heard, and show you how i t appl ies to the law,
8 the law that -- the only law that appl ies whether you f ind him
9 gui l ty or not gui l ty, and I ' l l get one more chance to do that .
10 But when I do that , you wi l l see abundant ly clear through the
11 course of this t r ial , he didn ' t intend to make this cr iminal
12 conspi racy succeed. You ' l l see his intent , and you ' l l
13 understand why he should be found not gui l ty. Thank you very
14 much.
15 THE COURT: Thank you, counsel . Next?
16 OPENING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT MC SWAIN
17 MR. BYRD: May i t please the cour t , your Honor ,
18 counsel , ladies and gent lemen of the jury, good af ternoon . My
19 name is Mark Byrd, and I represent the defendant Mont rel l
20 McSwain, who is seated back at the table and who ' s been si t t ing
21 next to me al l morning.
22 I ' d l ike to begin my opening comments on behal f of
23 mysel f , as wel l as my cl ient , to thank you for agreeing to si t
24 as jurors in this case. For Mr . McSwain this ordeal began back
25 in September of 2005, which is when the indictment in this case

232
Byrd - Opening Statement
1 was f i led. I t ' s now May of 2007. I t ' s been approximately
2 20 months since these charges were brought against him, and he ' s
3 glad to f inal ly have his day in cour t and to have his case heard
4 by you .
5 Mr . Iasparro gave a very dramat ic and a very elaborate
6 presentat ion of what he bel ieves that the evidence in this case
7 is going to show , but as you ' re going to learn throughout the
8 t r ial , the evidence in this case comes from what you ' re able to
9 see on the videotapes and hear wi th your ears on the audiotapes
10 and the test imony that you hear from the var ious wi tnesses in
11 this case, plus you ' l l see many exhibi ts.
12 Mr . McSwain, as is Mr . Al len , as his at torney told you
13 and as Judge Reinhard has told you, is presumed innocent of the
14 charges against him. I t remains wi th him throughout the t r ial ,
15 and the only way that that presumpt ion of innocence can come off
16 him is i f you bel ieve at the close of the evidence in this case
17 that the government has proved each and every element of the
18 three charges against Mr . McSwain wi th proof beyond a reasonable
19 doubt .
20 Now, Mr . Iasparro painted a very compel l ing picture of
21 what he bel ieves that the evidence is going to show. Al l that
22 Mr . McSwain can ask from you as jurors is that you keep an open
23 mind, that you test this evidence, you wai t unt i l you have heard
24 al l of the evidence before making a decision as to his gui l t or
25 innocence on each of these three charges, and that you al low us

233
1 as defense counsel to probe into that evidence to t ry to show
2 you that i t does not r ise to the level of proof beyond a
3 reasonable doubt .
4 Now, in this case Mr . McSwain is charged, according to
5 Mr . Iasparro and according to the indictment , wi th being
6 involved in a conspi racy to possess wi th intent to dist r ibute
7 and to dist r ibute in excess of a ki logram of heroin and in
8 excess of 50 grams of crack cocaine. That ' s a lot of drugs,
9 ladies and gent lemen. A ki logram we al l know is
10 approximately -- wel l , a thousand grams or roughly 2 .2 pounds of
11 heroin , and 50 grams of crack cocaine is 50 grams.
12 Now, in Mr . Iasparro ' s opening statement , he al ready
13 al luded to one of the problems that the government has in this
14 case as far as proof and proving, in par t icular , those amounts .
15 He said that doors were for t i f ied, and, as a consequence,
16 whenever we would get into one of these drug houses, al l we came
17 up wi th was a very smal l amount , a miniscule amount of drugs.
18 And, ladies and gent lemen, that ' s al l you ' re going to hear in
19 this case and al l you ' re going to see in this case is a very
20 smal l amount , cer tainly nowhere near the 1 ,000 grams of heroin
21 that the government has represented that they ' l l prove to you
22 beyond a reasonable doubt , and a very smal l amount of crack
23 cocaine, a very smal l amount compared to the 50 grams of crack
24 cocaine that the government told you they would prove beyond a
25 reasonable doubt .

234
1 Now, you ' re going to watch extensive videos . You ' re
2 going to see a lot of di fferent people on those videos,
3 including Mr . McSwain . I ' m not going to deny that . I t ' s very
4 clear . You ' re going to see i t wi th your own eyes. You ' re going
5 to hear him wi th your own ears. But what ' s real ly impor tant in
6 this case, amongst a lot of impor tant things, is that you hold
7 Mr . McSwain accountable for what the government proves against
8 him and not al low some of the wi ld violence that Mr . Iasparro
9 told you you ' re going to hear about to spi l l over onto
10 Mr . McSwain , i f the evidence doesn ' t establ ish that he should be
11 held responsible for that .
12 We ' re going to watch probably somewhere at least f ive ,
13 six hours ' wor th of the video and audiotapes from this house on
14 Kishwaukee Avenue. You ' re going to see a lot of people saying
15 things . And there ' s no quest ion at the t ime that the people are
16 on the tape saying things, they weren ' t aware that they were
17 being taped . They weren ' t aware that they were being videoed.
18 Please keep in mind that Mr . McSwain should be t reated as a
19 separate defendant and hold the evidence that he should be held
20 responsible for against him.
21 The evidence is going to show, as the indictment
22 al leges -- the indictment , I should say, al leges that this
23 conspi racy began somet ime in 2001 and cont inued unt i l
24 approximately September 13th of 2005. Wi th respect to
25 Mr . McSwain , i t ' s going to show that he was not even present in

235
1 this area unt i l somet ime late in 2002 , late fal l , ear ly winter
2 of 2002. That becomes impor tant , especial ly when we ' re looking
3 at the types of amounts that the government has represented that
4 they ' re going to show to you beyond a reasonable doubt .
5 If this conspi racy existed, Mr . McSwain was not present
6 to be a par t of i t unt i l the end of 2002, which narrows the t ime
7 frame for him, and I bel ieve even Mr . Iasparro said that
8 Mr . McSwain did not get involved unt i l somet ime in 2003, 2004.
9 Now -- or I ' m sorry. At least 2003, which is consistent wi th
10 what I ' m tel l ing you the evidence wi l l show, that he was out of
11 commission unt i l late 2002 .
12 Keeping these videos and audios that you ' re going to
13 hear in context is a very impor tant thing, and i t ' s going to be
14 a chal lenge for you. I can give you a couple examples al ready
15 just based on what ' s been said by Mr . Iasparro in his opening
16 statement . He said Mr . McSwain couldn ' t keep his mouth shut ,
17 and you ' re going to see him on tape saying boldly and proudly,
18 "We ' ve got the biggest and best dope in Rockford," and that
19 sounds pret ty bad. I t sounds l ike that thought was formed in
20 his head, and he makes that statement . We have the biggest and
21 best dope in Rockford .
22 But i f you l isten to the whole tape, l isten to i t
23 careful ly, you ' re going to hear that what actual ly happens is he
24 and Dupree Turner and I bel ieve one or two other people are in
25 another room, and you hear Dupree Turner say, "We have the

236
1 biggest and best dope in Rockford." Then they walk out into the
2 area on video, and you hear Mont rel l McSwain laugh at what
3 Dupree Turner said, and then he repeats i t , "Yeah, we have the
4 biggest and best dope in Rockford."
5 So, r ight there al ready is a big di fference between
6 Mont rel l McSwain pronouncing that we have the biggest and best
7 dope in Rockford , which sounds l ike he ' s agreeing, he ' s a par t
8 of this and that he along wi th the others have the biggest and
9 best dope in Rockford , but what real ly is being said -- and
10 you ' l l have the oppor tuni ty to see these type of nuances
11 throughout the t r ial on the videotapes and hear them wi th your
12 own ears -- is he ' s merely repeat ing what Dupree Turner said,
13 laughing at i t because he thought i t was funny.
14 Ladies and gent lemen, you are going to see Mr . McSwain
15 on the tapes at this house on Kishwaukee, and you ' re going to
16 see him sel l ing drugs . I ' m not going to l ie to you. I t ' s on
17 there. I t ' s plain. He ' s very recognizable on the tape. What
18 you ' re not going to see is him having anything to do wi th the
19 kind of amounts that the government is al leged is going to be
20 shown, in excess of 50 grams of crack cocaine and in excess of a
21 ki logram of heroin.
22 Mr . McSwain is a product of the st reets of Rockford and
23 the st reets of Chicago. He ' s uneducated, he ' s unski l led, and he
24 occasional ly deal t drugs from t ime to t ime to get money to make
25 ends meet . But what the government ' s evidence wi l l not show is

237
1 that he conspi red to dist r ibute as par t of this conspi racy the
2 kinds of amounts that the government has al leged and that are in
3 the indictment .
4 In addi t ion, Mr . McSwain has two charges for possession
5 of a f i rearm dur ing the course of a drug t raff icking cr ime. And
6 you are going to see Mr . McSwain on tape playing wi th guns, and
7 I say playing wi th guns because that ' s what he ' s doing. You ' l l
8 see him holding guns. You ' l l see him taking the cl ips out ,
9 put t ing them back in. You ' l l see him pretend on one video, I
10 bel ieve, to actual ly be shoot ing the gun. But i f this t r ial
11 were only about whether or not Mont rel l McSwain possessed guns
12 and al l the government had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt is
13 that he possessed guns, that would be the end of the inqui ry.
14 I ' d say sign the gui l ty verdict and go home conf ident because
15 you wi l l see him possessing guns.
16 What the government must show beyond a reasonable doubt
17 is that Mr . McSwain possessed f i rearms on these two occasions,
18 these two counts , in fur therance of a drug t raff icking cr ime.
19 Now, why is that impor tant , and what is the dist inct ion of i t?
20 Wel l , al ready Mr . Iasparro tel ls you that the evidence is going
21 to show a lot of gang violence. I t ' s going to show some
22 evidence of a shoot ing at a McDonald ' s. What i t ' s not going to
23 show is that Mont rel l McSwain had anything to do wi th that
24 shoot ing. I t ' s not going to show that he was present at that
25 shoot ing. I t ' s not going to show that he played any par t in the

238
1 planning out of that shoot ing or the carrying out of the
2 shoot ing.
3 In fact , none of the evidence that the government is
4 going to show in this case is going to show Mont rel l McSwain
5 ever using a f i rearm in fur therance of a drug t raff icking cr ime.
6 I said you ' re going to see Mont rel l McSwain deal ing wi th an
7 occasional customer and sel l ing drugs to those customers. On no
8 occasion are you ever going to see him showing his gun to the
9 customer to t ry to keep them in l ine. You ' re not even going to
10 see him do l ike this ( indicat ing) . You ' ve al l seen that on TV ,
11 just so they can see a gun in there. You ' re not going to see
12 that wi th any of the customers. You ' re not going to see i t in
13 fur therance of a drug cr ime as i t relates to Mr . Mont rel l
14 McSwain.
15 Now, they ' re playing wi th guns in the house , and I ' m
16 not going to deny that many of these individuals were violent .
17 Many of these individuals that Mr . McSwain knew and that were a
18 par t of this gang were very violent individuals . You ' re going
19 to hear a lot of things in this case about other defendants.
20 And again i t ' s of cr i t ical impor tance to Mr . McSwain and his
21 r ights to a fai r t r ial that you not let that informat ion
22 per taining to other individuals and thei r violent propensi t ies
23 spi l l over onto him. You wi l l not hear any di rect evidence of
24 Mr . McSwain or any credible evidence of Mr . McSwain being
25 involved in any shoot ings or using those guns that he possessed

239
1 in fur therance of a drug t raff icking cr ime .
2 You ' re going to hear him make some statements on tape ,
3 and, again, t ry to keep that in context as we t ry to probe and
4 explore that evidence because you ' re going to see that he made a
5 lot of comments. One of them Mr . Iasparro has al ready al luded
6 to where he said that "I shoot so you can sel l crack ."
7 But what they ' re not going to have is any evidence of
8 any shoot ings that Mr . McSwain actual ly carr ied out , was
9 involved in , was present at , planned, induced, or anything else.
10 What i t ' s going to come down to, I respect ful ly submi t , is
11 Mr . McSwain on tape talking to some of the other guys that were
12 in that house, people who were members of this Ti tanic Stones
13 gang, basical ly saying things to t ry to make himsel f look l ike a
14 big shot to these other guys, t rying to make himsel f look and
15 seem impor tant to them. But what wi l l be missing is di rect
16 physical evidence of Mont rel l McSwain ever ut i l izing these
17 weapons in fur therance of a drug t raff icking cr ime.
18 So, where are you going to hear that evidence from?
19 The government is going to cal l four or f ive wi tnesses that
20 they ' ve al ready talked about . They cal l them cooperat ing
21 wi tnesses, and these are the wi tnesses and the purpor ted
22 evidence that the government hopes wi l l f i l l in the gaps for
23 you, f i l l in the cracks, f i l l in the holes that are missing in
24 thei r evidence. These are defendants who at one t ime were
25 charged along wi th Mr . McSwain, Mr . Dodson , and Mr . Al len who at

240
1 some point decided that they were not going to exercise thei r
2 r ight to have a t r ial by a jury, they were not going to exercise
3 thei r r ight to have the government prove them gui l ty beyond a
4 reasonable doubt , and they decided that they were going to plead
5 gui l ty.
6 These wi tnesses -- you ' re going to hear a l i t t le bi t
7 about the process that a cooperator or a cooperat ing wi tness
8 goes through before they get to hi t that wi tness stand and tel l
9 you what they ' re here to tel l you. You ' re going to hear about
10 how they go through meet ings and preparat ion, the whole process.
11 You ' re going to see that many of these, i f not al l of them, are
12 convicted felons . You ' re going to see and hear that al l of them
13 or many of them faced vast , ext raordinary sentences, some that
14 could be longer than thei r own age at this point , some looking
15 at possible l i fe impr isonment for thei r act ivi t ies in this
16 conspi racy, and then you ' re going to hear what they have
17 received in exchange for thei r wi l l ingness to come in here and
18 test i fy.
19 Ladies and gent lemen, credibi l i ty is going to be a huge
20 factor in this case, especial ly when these wi tnesses t ry to f i l l
21 in the gaps , f i l l in the holes, because the di rect evidence wi l l
22 not suppor t what they are saying. Mont rel l McSwain has opted to
23 have you si t in judgment of him and make the government prove
24 him gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt . I bel ieve that when the
25 evidence has al l been heard and we ' ve had an oppor tuni ty to

241
1 review i t , test i t , and put i t in i ts proper context that you
2 wi l l f ind him not gui l ty of both the charge of conspi r ing to
3 dist r ibute in excess of one ki logram of heroin and in excess of
4 50 grams of crack cocaine and not gui l ty of possessing a f i rearm
5 in fur therance of a drug t raff icking cr ime .
6 Mr . McSwain is not going to win any popular i ty contests
7 in this t r ial , and i f the government only had to prove him
8 gui l ty beyond a reasonable doubt of being someone that you would
9 not want to invi te over for Chr istmas dinner or not al low to
10 date your daughter , again, I would say sign the verdict and go
11 home. You ' re going to see him on tape saying things , playing
12 wi th guns, and occasional ly deal ing drugs, but the government is
13 requi red to prove much more, and unt i l they do and unt i l they
14 can, the only verdict that you can return consistent wi th your
15 oath is a verdict of not gui l ty. Thank you.
16 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Thank you , counsel .
17 Mr . Sul l ivan.
18 OPENING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT DODSON
19 MR. SULLIVAN: Good af ternoon, ladies and gent lemen.
20 I ' m Donald Sul l ivan. I ' m the at torney for Bradford Dodson. I 'm
21 going to join in many of the same comments that cocounsel
22 Mr . Byrd made to you, but wi th some dist inct ions. Once again,
23 we would ask that you be reminded that as he si ts here today,
24 Bradford Dodson is considered and presumed to be innocent .
25 When we come to t r ial , i t should be pret ty extensive.

242
Sul l ivan - Opening Statement
1 I t wi l l last a long t ime. I t ' s going to take a big chunk out of
2 your l i fe, and you ' re going to view int imately -- have inside
3 view of a par t of l i fe that , wel l , most of us wouldn ' t want to
4 l ive. Some people do l ive that way.
5 You ' re going to see Mr . Dodson on those tapes. You ' re
6 going to see his other codefendants, and you ' re going to see the
7 government ' s wi tnesses there, too. Like Mr . Byrd says, nobody
8 here is up for a popular i ty contest . There ' s going to be a
9 showing of the baser side of l i fe.
10 We ant icipate that the government ' s evidence is going
11 to take about a week to put on, as you ' ve been told, and there ' s
12 going to be a substant ial amount of evidence presented. You ' re
13 going to view many hours of videotape and audiotape. But what
14 we ' re asking you is to consider that not everything is as i t
15 seems. There are explanat ions. There are other factors that
16 could explain where we are . There ' s two sides to every story.
17 So, that being the case, we would l ike you to not make up your
18 mind ahead of t ime or dur ing the presentat ion of a por t ion of
19 the case, but wai t unt i l the end . Wai t unt i l Mr . Dodson has an
20 oppor tuni ty to present his side of the story.
21 The government said that they were going to show
22 evidence that Bradford Dodson was helping move furni ture into
23 this drug house. Wel l , they ' l l show him, and they wi l l show
24 furni ture, and they ' l l also show Mr . Dodson has bandages over
25 both of his hands. And al though he is holding up at one point

243
Sul l ivan - Opening Statement
1 one end of a couch, you wi l l see that he is unable to sustain
2 that act ivi ty, and i t gets dropped. Hmm. Wi th an explanat ion ,
3 maybe things are going to be a l i t t le more clear .
4 You ' re going to see Mr . Dodson holding a gun on several
5 occasions. His hands are bandaged. You ' l l have to draw your
6 own conclusions, but we would suggest that what he was not doing
7 was possessing a f i rearm in fur therance of a conspi racy.
8 There ' s going to be a suggest ion that Mr . Dodson ,
9 because he shows up in some tapes, was there for a conspi racy
10 extending a longer per iod of t ime. We would suggest that he ' s
11 not , and he wasn ' t . He wasn ' t there. So, we ' re going to ask
12 that you consider and requi re the proofs to be shown very
13 st r ict ly as to when Mr . Dodson was actual ly involved . The fact
14 is is Mr . Dodson wasn ' t even present dur ing large por t ions of
15 the per iod of t ime in which this al leged conspi racy was going
16 on.
17 And then there ' s going to be a suggest ion that Bradford
18 Dodson shot Jul io Al len. Ladies and gent lemen, he did not . He
19 wasn ' t there. There were some statements that may be presented,
20 but what won ' t be presented is evidence that Mr . Dodson shot
21 Jul io Al len because he didn ' t do i t .
22 We ' re asking you, again , consider him innocent as he
23 si ts here today. Do not make up your mind unt i l we have an
24 oppor tuni ty to present our side of the story. Keep an open
25 mind. And I bel ieve at the conclusion of the case, you wi l l

244
Smi th - Di rect
1 agree wi th me that the government has fai led to present
2 suff icient evidence to draw a conclusion that he is gui l ty
3 beyond a reasonable doubt , which means that then you would
4 return a verdict of not gui l ty. Thank you very much .
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Those are the opening
6 statements. Is the government ready to proceed?
8 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Pul l the podium around. If
9 anybody wants to take a stand-up break, st retch break, you can
10 do so. Otherwise, cal l your f i rst wi tness .
11 MR. IASPARRO: The government cal ls Special Agent Steve
12 Smi th.
13 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Face me, please. Raise your
14 r ight hand.
15 (Wi tness duly sworn. )
16 THE COURT: Be seated, and speak into the microphone,
17 please .
18 STEPHEN SMITH, GOVERNMENT ' S WITNESS, SWORN
19 DIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. IASPARRO:
21 Q. Good af ternoon, si r . Would you state your name and spel l
22 your last name for the record?
23 A. Steve Smi th, S-m- i - t -h .
24 Q. Mr . Smi th, how are you employed?
25 A. I ' m a special agent wi th the Bureau of Alcohol , Tobacco,

245
Smi th - Di rect
1 Fi rearms & Explosives .
2 THE COURT: Pul l i t a l i t t le closer .
3 BY MR. IASPARRO:
4 Q. ATF is shor t for that?
5 A. That ' s correct .
6 Q. How long have you been an ATF agent?
7 A. 21 years of act ive duty.
8 Q. And you are current ly assigned to the Rockford satel l i te
9 off ice; is that correct?
11 Q. What are your pr imary dut ies, si r?
12 A. We pr imar i ly invest igate violat ions of federal f i rearms
13 laws, somet imes federal drug laws.
14 Q. Agent Smi th, are you the case agent and have you been the
15 case agent assigned to an invest igat ion involving the Ti tanic
16 Stones st reet gang in Rockford, I l l inois?
17 A. Yes, I have.
18 Q. When did the ATF get involved in that invest igat ion?
19 A. Off icial ly began our invest igat ion in the spr ing of 2005,
20 approximately Apr i l of 2005.
21 Q. How was i t that the ATF got involved in that invest igat ion?
22 A. We had over a per iod of t ime received numerous pol ice
23 repor ts related to the Ti tanic Stones . Also, we had been
24 receiving informat ion from conf ident ial informants concerning
25 them.

246
Smi th - Di rect
1 Q. In gather ing the informat ion, did you team up wi th any other
2 law enforcement agencies to invest igate that par t icular st reet
3 gang?
4 A. Yes. We teamed up wi th the Rockford Pol ice Depar tment .
5 Q. And as par t of the invest igat ion , did you develop one
6 conf ident ial source in par t icular who was associated wi th the
7 leaders of that st reet gang?
8 A. Yes, we did.
9 Q. And was that conf ident ial source able to make recordings of
10 meet ings wi th two par t icular members?
11 A. Yes, she did .
12 Q. And who did she make recordings of meet ings wi th?
13 A. Wi th Darrel l Davis, also known as Duck .
14 MR. TUNICK: Excuse me , your Honor . I ' m going to
15 object as to Lee Al len as to this test imony. Relevancy, the
16 t ime frame.
17 THE COURT: I t is relevant only to the extent that for
18 somebody who is charged wi th aiding and abet t ing, the government
19 obviously has to prove that the conspi racy exists, but as to him
20 being a par t of the conspi racy, there ' s no evidence that would
21 be relevant to him, as the government concedes.
22 Wi th that warning, he may test i fy, and you may consider
23 the test imony only in the sense as to that defendant as I have
24 just stated .
25

247
Smi th - Di rect
1 BY MR. IASPARRO:
2 Q. Agent Smi th, what was the purpose of set t ing up those
3 meet ings between that par t icular conf ident ial source and Darrel l
4 Davis and Steven Easter?
5 A. They had or iginal ly approached the conf ident ial informant
6 asking her to at tempt to acqui re a rental proper ty in her name
7 and then turn over custody of that proper ty to them.
8 Q. Unbeknownst to them, was she working wi th you and the
9 Rockford Pol ice Depar tment?
10 A. Yes, she was .
11 Q. What was the purpose or what was to be the purpose of the
12 proper ty being turned over?
13 A. Davis and Easter were then going to turn the proper ty into a
14 drug house that involved the Ti tanic Stones.
15 Q. Agent Smi th, based upon that informat ion, did you set up a
16 ser ies of meet ings wi th the conf ident ial source and those two
17 persons?
18 A. Yes, we did.
19 Q. And did you take other steps wi th the goal in mind of being
20 able to survei l a par t icular drug house?
21 A. Yes, we did.
22 Q. Can you out l ine that par t of the invest igat ion?
23 A. Through assistance from local businesses, we were able to
24 acqui re a residence at 1023 Kishwaukee. At that point we were
25 able to equip that residence wi th both recording and -- both

248
Smi th - Di rect
1 audio and video recording devices.
2 Q. Could you tel l us the layout of that residence, 1023
3 Kishwaukee?
4 A. The residence was a single fami ly residence , and basical ly
5 i t was a four-room house plus a bathroom. There was a ki tchen ,
6 dining room, l iving room, and one bedroom. We had two video
7 cameras and two recording microphones in each of the three
8 pr imary rooms, ki tchen, l iving room, dining room.
9 MR. IASPARRO: May I approach, Judge?
10 THE COURT: You may.
11 BY MR. IASPARRO:
12 Q. Agent Smi th, I ' m going to hand you a ser ies of photographs
13 marked Government ' s Exhibi ts 172A through 172HHH. I ' d just ask
14 you to br ief ly f l ip through those and tel l us i f you recognize
15 those, and then I wi l l di rect your at tent ion to speci f ic
16 photographs .
17 A. Yes. These are photographs of 1023 Kishwaukee St reet , the
18 house that we provided to the conf ident ial source.
19 Q. Photographs both of the exter ior and inter ior of that house?
21 Q. And when were those photographs taken?
22 A. Those were taken on I bel ieve September 15 af ter the
23 invest igat ion.
24 Q. Do those photographs fai r ly and accurate depict the inside
25 and outside of 1023 Kishwaukee as i t appeared dur ing the

249
Smi th - Di rect
1 invest igat ion?
2 A. Yes, i t does .
3 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, I ' d move to admi t the 172 ser ies
4 and ask to publ ish cer tain photographs.
5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That ' s 172A through 172HHH?
7 THE COURT: Is there any object ion to the foundat ion?
8 MR. BYRD: No, your Honor , not on behal f of
9 Mr . McSwain .
12 THE COURT: Thank you. I wi l l admi t those exhibi ts and
13 al low the government to publ ish or display cer tain of the
14 exhibi ts to you at this t ime.
16 (Government ' s Exhibi ts 172A through 172HHH were offered and
17 received in evidence. )
18 BY MR. IASPARRO:
19 Q. Agent Smi th, before I get into the photographs, you
20 ment ioned that the house was equipped wi th video and audio
21 recording equipment ; is that correct?
23 Q. And that the keys to that residence weren ' t turned over
24 unt i l a par t icular date; is that correct?

250
Smi th - Di rect
1 Q. What date was that?
2 A. That was August 9th, 2005.
3 Q. Who physical ly turned over the keys to 1023 Kishwaukee?
4 A. The conf ident ial informant turned the keys over to Darrel l
5 Davis on that par t icular date.
6 Q. What was so special about August 9th, 2005?
7 A. August 9th, 2005, is the date in which we received cour t
8 author izat ion to record and intercept audio and video act ivi ty
9 at 1023 Kishwaukee.
10 Q. Agent Smi th, I ' m going to hand you Government ' s Exhibi ts 1A,
11 1B, and also 2A and 2B and ask you to take a look at those.
12 Star t ing wi th 1A and 1B, si r , can you tel l us what those are?
13 A. These are the order author izing the intercept ion of visual
14 nonverbal conduct and act ivi t ies at 1023 Kishwaukee and then the
15 author izat ion to intercept oral communicat ions.
16 Q. And those orders were good for how long?
17 A. Thi r ty days.
18 Q. And were they updated? Were they extended 30 days af ter
19 they were entered?
20 A. Yes. On September 8th , 2005, they were extended an
21 addi t ional 30 days.
22 Q. And turning your at tent ion to Government ' s Exhibi ts 2A and
23 2B, are those the orders that were entered on September 8th,
24 2005, extending the author izat ion?

251
Smi th - Di rect
1 Q. Was i t your test imony that the keys to 1023 Kishwaukee were
2 not turned over unt i l the orders were signed on August 9th,
3 2005?
5 Q. I ' d l ike to di rect your at tent ion now to Government ' s
6 Exhibi t 172A. Agent Smi th , what does 172A depict?
7 A. This is the west side or rear of the residence at 1023
8 Kishwaukee.
9 Q. And 172C. What does 172C depict?
10 A. Looking at both the east or front of 1023 Kishwaukee and
11 also the nor th side of the same residence.
12 Q. 172G. What does 172G depict?
13 A. This is a view of the rear door in the ki tchen area of 1023
14 Kishwaukee.
15 Q. Agent Smi th, I not ice that there is some hardware at tached
16 to that door . Could you explain what that is?
17 A. There ' s two crossbars in which a two-by-four is f i t ted into
18 them, and then there ' s a bol t lock and a secondary bol t lock.
19 Q. Agent Smi th, you ment ioned that these photographs were
20 taken, I bel ieve , on September 14th or 15th, 2005?
21 A. One of those dates, yes.
22 Q. And was that dur ing the execut ion of a search warrant at
23 1023 Kishwaukee?
25 Q. And why were these photographs taken on that date?

252
Smi th - Di rect
1 A. The case had concluded , and we were closing down the
2 operat ion.
3 Q. Between August 9th, 2005, and September 13th, 2005, was
4 there ongoing moni tor ing of the act ivi t ies of persons at 1023
5 Kishwaukee?
6 A. Yes, there were.
7 Q. Can you descr ibe -- you ment ioned cameras and microphones at
8 1023 Kishwaukee.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Can you descr ibe a l i t t le bi t more about the technical
11 aspect of how those worked?
12 A. We had a di rect l ine feed from 1023 Kishwaukee to a
13 commercial bui lding approximately three-quar ters of a mi le away
14 where we establ ished both a l istening post we cal l i t and a
15 command post . The l istening post was divided into three
16 sect ions. Each sect ion deal t wi th one par t icular room in the
17 house. So, there would be a sect ion for the ki tchen , a sect ion
18 for the dining room, a sect ion for the l iving room. There was
19 one moni tor observing those sect ions. There was a supervisor in
20 that room at al l t imes, and he would observe the moni tors .
21 The individual moni tors had the abi l i ty of swi tching
22 from one of two cameras under our cont rol , and you ' l l see that
23 in the video where they ' l l be going back and for th t rying to get
24 the best shot or t rying to get a room shot .
25 Q. Were there procedures in place to ensure the accuracy and

253
Smi th - Di rect
1 authent icat ion of the recordings of each of the rooms, ki tchen ,
2 dining room, and l iving room?
3 A. Yes, there was.
4 Q. Could you descr ibe those procedures?
5 A. At the conclusion of each shi f t , the shi f t supervisor was
6 responsible for removing the DVD from each of the rooms
7 involved. In some cases there might be two DVDs. He was then
8 requi red to make copies of those DVDs . Fi rst tag the DVD , make
9 copies of i t , and then place the or iginal one into a sealed
10 envelope, and i t was turned over eventual ly to my custody to put
11 in permanent evidence storage.
12 Q. Were there working copies made from the or iginals?
13 A. Yes. They made them pr ior to seal ing the or iginal envelope.
14 Q. Whi le recording was going on -- is i t fai r to say you were
15 there a large amount of t ime?
16 A. Yes, I was.
17 Q. And were the act ivi t ies at 1023 Kishwaukee moni tored 24
18 hours per day?
19 A. Yes, seven days a week .
20 Q. Was everything that went on at 1023 Kishwaukee recorded?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Can you explain a l i t t le bi t about that?
23 A. Yes. We ' re requi red by cour t order to minimize both our
24 oral and visual intercept ion i f the conversat ion or the act ivi ty
25 is not cr iminal related. So, there were t imes when they may be

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1 just playing games. They may be carrying on conversat ions about
2 spor ts . I t was up to the moni tor and the supervisor over him
3 then to discont inue the recording of that par t icular room at
4 that par t icular t ime. He would then check in at a later t ime to
5 see i f the conversat ion or the act ivi ty had changed to something
6 more cr iminal in nature.
7 Q. I ' d l ike to di rect your at tent ion now to a few more
8 photographs . 172K. Do you recognize that?
9 A. Yes, that is the ki tchen at 1023 Kishwaukee .
10 Q. Agent Smi th, I bel ieve i f you tap the screen in one of the
11 bot tom corners, i t wi l l clear .
12 172M. Do you recognize that photograph?
13 A. That ' s the dining room area .
14 Q. 172N?
15 A. And that would be the l iving room area .
16 Q. And 172P?
17 A. That ' s a view looking from the dining room into the l iving
18 room.
19 Q. Agent Smi th, the photograph depicts some furni ture in the
20 dining room and the l iving room. Was that furni ture there when
21 the keys were turned over to Darrel l Davis?
22 A. There was some furni ture there. They also moved in
23 furni ture.
24 Q. 172Q. What does that depict?
25 A. That ' s in the dining room area. I ' m sorry. That ' s the

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Smi th - Di rect
1 l iving room. Yes, I ' m sorry. That ' s the l iving room area.
2 Q. 172T. What does that photograph depict , Agent Smi th?
3 A. I bel ieve this is in the l iving room, also. There ' s crown
4 molding -- I ' l l point i t out here -- running around each of the
5 rooms. I t was behind that crown molding we hid our cameras and
6 our audio mikes and the wi r ing that went wi th i t .
7 Q. 172W. What does that depict?
8 A. This is the l iving room at 1023 Kishwaukee.
9 Q. Is the front door also shown?
10 A. Yes, i t is.
11 Q. And what about that front door do you not ice?
12 A. The door has been reinforced. There ' s crossbars and there ' s
13 a dead bol t .
14 Q. Agent Smi th, were those cross braces and two-by-fours there
15 when the keys were turned over to Darrel l Davis on August 9th,
16 2005?
17 A. No, they were not .
18 Q. 172LL. What does that depict , Agent Smi th?
19 A. That ' s looking at the cei l ing. I t appears to be in the
20 dining room area .
21 Q. 172NN. What does that depict?
22 A. This is a view from the l iving room into the bedroom.
23 Q. As the case agent responsible for overseeing this
24 invest igat ion, Agent Smi th , you ment ioned that you were at the
25 l istening post , as you cal led i t , a signi f icant amount of t ime

256
Smi th - Di rect
1 between August 9th and September 13th , 2005; is that correct?
3 Q. The back bedroom window over that t ime per iod, what
4 signi f icance did that back bedroom window take on?
5 A. This was where the customers actual ly came up to. They
6 would approach the house from the -- i t would be the west side
7 or the rear and come up to that bedroom window, and the drugs
8 and money were exchanged through that window.
9 Q. In addi t ion to the cameras that were in the ki tchen, dining
10 room, and l iving room, were there cameras si tuated on ut i l i ty
11 poles on the exter ior of 1023 Kishwaukee?
12 A. Yes. There was one camera mounted on the west end of the
13 house looking away, and we could moni tor , video moni tor only,
14 customers walking up to the door and customers depar t ing.
15 Q. Were there any cameras in this back bedroom i tsel f?
16 A. No, there was nothing.
17 Q. 172SS, please. You ment ioned a back al leyway, Agent Smi th?
19 Q. And does 172SS depict that back al leyway?
20 A. I t does .
21 Q. Agent Smi th, I ' m wheel ing up to you a car t containing a box
22 marked Government ' s Exhibi t 3. Are you fami l iar wi th that box ,
23 si r?
24 A. I am.
25 Q. What does Government ' s Exhibi t 3 contain?

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1 A. This contains the or iginal DVDs that were recorded at the
2 l istening post from 1023 Kishwaukee.
3 Q. Between August 9th, 2005, and September 13th, 2005?
5 Q. The or iginal recordings, are they al l in a sealed condi t ion?
6 A. Yes, they are.
7 Q. Agent Smi th, do you have an approximate number of hours that
8 were recorded between August 9th , 2005, and September 13th,
9 2005?
10 A. We roughly est imated approximately 2,000 hours of
11 recordings.
12 Q. September 13th, 2005, we ' ve ment ioned that date a number of
13 t imes. Why was that the end date, Agent Smi th?
14 A. Due to var ious ci rcumstances, some members of the house
15 determined that we were, in fact , l istening in on them at 1023.
16 Q. And were arrests made shor t ly af ter that?
18 Q. Government ' s Exhibi t 3, the or iginal recordings that I
19 showed you, are those in a sealed condi t ion, and are they in the
20 same or substant ial ly the same condi t ion as when you tagged them
21 into evidence --
22 A. Yes, they are.
23 Q. -- over that t ime per iod?
24 You ment ioned that working copies were made of al l of
25 the recordings; is that correct?

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Smi th - Di rect
2 Q. On a shi f t by shi f t at t imes and cer tainly a dai ly basis,
3 did you as the case agent have a responsibi l i ty to review what
4 was going on at the l istening post and at 1023 Kishwaukee?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. Did that include reviewing some of the recordings?
7 A. Yes. Actual ly reviewing the recordings, and then each
8 moni tor , as he was watching act ivi t ies in his room, would type
9 what we cal l a l ine sheet , and that would be his summary of what
10 he saw happening in his par t icular room, and I would review
11 those l ine sheets and determine the impor tant ones.
12 Q. And in preparat ion for t r ial , did you, wi th the assistance
13 of other ATF employees, prepare DVDs from the working copies of
14 speci f ic video cl ips that the government may or may not present
15 at t r ial?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Can you explain the process that you took to do that?
18 A. We have a visual informat ion branch in Washington at our
19 headquar ters. I took the appropr iate DVDs out there , and they
20 were able to take the selected scenes that we needed for cour t ,
21 download those scenes onto a hard dr ive, and then create new
22 DVDs just for the scenes or cl ips, as they ' re cal led here , that
23 you ' l l see in cour t .
24 Q. Were you there when that process was under taken?
25 A. Yes, I was.

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Smi th - Di rect
1 Q. And did you review the cl ips that were downloaded and then
2 the DVD that contained the downloaded cl ips?
3 A. Yes. I reviewed 112 cl ips both pr ior to and then af ter they
4 had been downloaded on thei r own.
5 Q. And in reviewing the 112 cl ips both pr ior to and af ter they
6 were downloaded, did you determine whether they were ident ical
7 repl icas?
8 A. Yes, i t was an exact dupl icat ion.
9 Q. Agent Smi th, in preparat ion for t r ial again , did the ATF
10 arrange for t ranscr ipts to be made, to be prepared, of the
11 conversat ions of those 112 video cl ips that you ident i f ied?
12 A. Yes. We used a cont ractor to prepare the t ranscr ipts of the
13 actual conversat ions.
14 Q. And did you then receive draf t t ranscr ipts from that
15 cont ract employee?
16 A. I did.
17 Q. Did you yoursel f review the t ranscr ipts and compare them to
18 each of those 112 video cl ips to ensure thei r accuracy?
19 A. Yes, I did.
20 Q. Agent Smi th, I ' m handing you f i rst Government ' s Exhibi t 4
21 and 4A through 4Q. Do you recognize those , si r?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Fi rst star t ing wi th Government ' s Exhibi t 4, what is that?
24 A. This is a DVD of video cl ips 1 through 17.
25 Q. And 4A through 4Q?

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Smi th - Di rect
1 A. These are the t ranscr ipts of the conversat ions that occurred
2 on Government ' s Exhibi t 4.
3 Q. And have you compared those t ranscr ipts to the video cl ips?
4 A. Yes, I have.
5 Q. Based upon your review , are those fai r and accurate
6 t ranscr ipts of the conversat ions contained in video cl ips 1
7 through 17 on Government ' s Exhibi t 4?
8 A. Yes, they are.
9 Q. In order to shor tcut this a bi t , Agent Smi th, I ' m going to
10 hand you Government ' s Exhibi ts 5 , 6, 7, 8, and the corresponding
11 t ranscr ipts for Government ' s Exhibi t 5. They would be 5A
12 through 5S. Government ' s Exhibi t 6, 6A through 6X. For
13 Government ' s Exhibi t 7, 7A through 7DD. For Government ' s
14 Exhibi t 8, 8A through 8X. Do you recognize those, si r?
15 A. Yes. These are the four remaining DVDs of the cl ips that
16 wi l l be presented in cour t accompanied by the t ranscr ipts that
17 were made from them.
18 Q. And the t ranscr ipts corresponding to each par t icular video
19 cl ip on those DVDs, are they fai r and accurate t ranscr ipts of
20 the conversat ions in those video cl ips?
21 A. Yes, they are.
22 Q. Agent Smi th, I would next l ike to hand you Government ' s
23 Exhibi t Number 9 for ident i f icat ion. Do you recognize that ,
24 si r?
25 A. Yes.

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Smi th - Di rect
1 Q. What is Government ' s Exhibi t 9?
2 A. This is a summary of the video cl ips that wi l l be ut i l ized
3 here in cour t .
4 Q. You ment ioned the number 112 video cl ips. In preparat ion
5 for t r ial involving these three defendants , did you fur ther
6 narrow the number of video cl ips down for this par t icular t r ial?
7 A. Yes. I think the 112 was approximately just over 11 hours .
8 We ' re down now to approximately around six hours.
9 Q. And can you br ief ly explain the summary table that is
10 contained in Government ' s Exhibi t 9?
11 A. Yes. I t ident i f ies the video cl ip number , along wi th the
12 government ' s exhibi t number , the date and t ime in which the
13 recording was made, the room in which the recording was made,
14 and par t icipants who you wi l l see in that par t icular cl ip .
15 Q. In reviewing -- let me take a step back.
16 As the case agent and the person responsible to oversee
17 the invest igat ion, were you able to ident i fy several
18 par t icipants and persons who were involved in conversat ions and
19 other act ivi t ies at 1023 Kishwaukee over the intercept ion
20 per iod?
21 A. Yes, I was.
22 Q. Do you recognize -- are any of those persons in the
23 cour t room today?
24 A. I do.
25 Q. Would you point those persons out and descr ibe what they ' re

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1 wear ing, please?
2 A. Mont rel l McSwain wear ing a tannish shi r t . Bradford Dodson
3 next to him in a whi te shi r t .
4 MR. TUNICK: We ' l l st ipulate that Mr . Al len is on the
5 video.
6 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The others so st ipulate?
8 MR. SULLIVAN: I ' l l so st ipulate.
9 THE COURT: Thank you. They have st ipulated, which is
10 an agreed statement of fact that these three defendants are on
11 some of those videos dur ing the t ime per iod in quest ion at the
12 locat ion in quest ion.
13 BY MR. IASPARRO:
14 Q. Agent Smi th, Government ' s Exhibi t 9, the last column that is
15 ent i t led par t icipants , can you again descr ibe that?
16 A. I t wi l l l ist the individuals by name who appear in that
17 par t icular video cl ip .
18 Q. And wi th respect to each of the video cl ips contained in
19 that summary table, have you personal ly reviewed each of those
20 video cl ips and thei r respect ive t ranscr ipts to determine thei r
21 accuracy and authent ici ty?
22 A. Yes, I have.
23 Q. And are you also aware that those video cl ips and
24 t ranscr ipts have been downloaded into a cour t room presentat ion
25 sof tware for t r ial purposes?

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Smi th - Di rect
1 A. Yes, I am.
2 Q. And have you reviewed the cour t room presentat ion format to
3 determine whether they are fai r and accurate as to the
4 t ranscr ipts and the video cl ips?
5 A. Yes, I have, and they are.
6 MR. IASPARRO: Your Honor , at this t ime I would move
7 for the admission of Government ' s Exhibi ts 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8
8 and, for the jury ' s assistance, the respect ive t ranscr ipts as to
9 Government ' s Exhibi ts 4, 5 , 6, 7, and 8 and ask for permission
10 to publ ish cer tain video cl ips, both wi th Agent Smi th and other
11 wi tnesses who wi l l test i fy later in this t r ial .
12 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Is there any object ion at this
13 t ime to those exhibi ts, meaning Exhibi ts 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8?
14 Now, I ' l l get to the other ones , but is there any object ion to
15 those?
19 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Those wi l l be admi t ted.
20 (Government ' s Exhibi ts 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 were offered and
21 received in evidence. )
22 THE COURT: And the next -- what did you move?
23 MR. IASPARRO: I also moved Government ' s Exhibi t 3,
24 Judge, which is the box containing al l of the or iginal DVDs.
25 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I wi l l admi t -- I thought I had

264
Smi th - Di rect
1 included that , but that shal l be admi t ted.
2 (Government ' s Exhibi t 3 was offered and received in
3 evidence. )
4 THE COURT: My next quest ion is did you move for the
5 t ranscr ipts?
6 MR. IASPARRO: I am moving for the abi l i ty to publ ish
7 those, Judge, just to assist the jury in viewing the video
8 cl ips.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' l l ask the lawyers -- or I ' l l
10 indicate to the defense lawyers that Mr . Iasparro seeks to
11 publ ish the i tems in suppor t of each of the Exhibi ts 4 through 8
12 as t ranscr ipts, and the t ranscr ipts wi l l not be admi t ted as
13 evidence, but they wi l l be used to aid the jury in l istening to
14 the audio por t ion of the tapes, and they would be l imi ted to
15 that purpose only.
16 So that the jurors understand, you wi l l see and hear
17 the video and the audio por t ions of some of these tapes that
18 have been admi t ted into evidence , but in order to assist you,
19 government agents have prepared what they bel ieve to be an
20 accurate t ranscr ipt of what was said and who said i t , and I am
21 going to provide you wi th those copies that help you understand
22 what you see and hear , but those t ranscr ipts are not evidence.
23 The sole evidence wi l l be what you hear and see . But this just
24 aids you. And so, i f you hear something that is di fferent than
25 what appears to be on the t ranscr ipts , i t ' s only what you hear

265
Smi th - Di rect
1 or see that is evidence.
2 I think I ' ve made mysel f clear . If the defendants
3 contest any aspects of the t ranscr ipts as being accurate, I wi l l
4 give them an oppor tuni ty to cross examine or int roduce any other
5 evidence as i t relates to those t ranscr ipts.
6 Wi th that , ask your next quest ion .
7 MR. IASPARRO: Thank you. I ' d ask for permission to
8 publ ish video cl ip number one, Judge.
9 THE COURT: Al l r ight . How long wi l l that take?
10 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, video cl ip one is -- the por t ion
11 that we ' re going to play is six minutes long, Judge.
12 THE COURT: I t ' s about ten minutes af ter 4:00. I sor t
13 of promised you that I ' d take a recess every two hours, and you
14 came in about 20 minutes af ter 2:00. Would you l ike to take a
15 break now, just a shor t ten-minute break, or would you l ike to
16 go to ten minutes to 5:00 and not take a break? Is there
17 anybody that wants a break now? If so, just raise your hand.
18 No hands. Show the tape.
20 BY MR. IASPARRO:
21 Q. Agent Smi th, I ' d di rect your at tent ion to the screen in the
22 cour t room.
23 THE COURT: Are you wishing to hand those t ranscr ipts
24 out now or not?
25 MR. IASPARRO: Judge --

266
Smi th - Di rect
1 THE COURT: Oh, I see.
2 (Videotape played . )
3 BY MR. IASPARRO:
4 Q. Agent Smi th, what are we seeing in video cl ip one?
5 A. We ' re seeing Darrel l Davis wi th his back to us and other
6 members of the Ti tanic Stones, including Steven Easter , Bradford
7 Dodson , and Ambrose Jones moving furni ture into 1023 Kishwaukee.
8 This is on August 9th , 2005.
9 Q. The day the keys were turned over?
10 A. The day the keys were -- just a couple hours af ter the keys
11 were turned over .
13 THE COURT: Does the audio go any higher than that?
14 MR. IASPARRO: I ' d l ike to play cl ip six next , your
15 Honor .
16 THE COURT: You may play i t . If i t ' s pret ty loud, turn
17 i t down.
19 BY MR. IASPARRO:
20 Q. Agent Smi th, based upon the summary that you prepared ,
21 Government ' s Exhibi t 9, cl ip six is on what date, and who are
22 the par t icipants?
23 A. Cl ip six is August 11th, 2005, at approximately 5:07 a.m.
24 The par t icipants you ' l l see in this cl ip are Steven Easter and
25 Bradford Dodson.

267
Smi th - Di rect
1 THE COURT: Who was the other one?
2 THE WITNESS: Bradford Dodson.
4 BY MR. IASPARRO:
5 Q. Agent Smi th, you ment ioned Steven Easter is a par t icipant in
6 this conversat ion. Can you see where he is si t t ing?
7 A. Yes. He ' s count ing the money i t appears r ight here.
8 Q. And where is Bradford Dodson?
9 A. He ' s si t t ing on the couch r ight over here.
10 Q. Agent Smi th, based upon the invest igat ion and your
11 exper ience as an ATF agent , are you fami l iar wi th the term
12 bi rds?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What does that refer to based on your exper ience?
15 A. A bi rd is a ki lo.
16 Q. And you heard the par t icipants in that conversat ion ment ion
17 a person by the name of Jo Jo.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Are you fami l iar based upon the invest igat ion wi th who Jo Jo
20 is?
21 A. Yes. That ' s Joel Turner .
22 Q. And the conversat ion turned to Jo Jo giving deals based upon
23 the invest igat ion. What did you understand that to mean?
24 A. Jo Jo was sel l ing dope on special deals.
25 Q. And also based on the invest igat ion, did you learn what the

268
Smi th - Di rect
1 term juking meant?
2 A. Juking is sel l ing drugs. Or I ' m sorry. Juking is actual ly
3 using drugs .
4 Q. Using drugs or sel l ing drugs?
5 A. Sel l ing. I mean, I ' m sorry. Using. I ' m confusing i t now .
6 He ' s jukin ' , he ' s high.
7 Q. Agent Smi th, I ' d l ike to next play cl ip seven. Based upon
8 Government ' s Exhibi t 9, the summary you prepared, what is the
9 date and t ime of cl ip seven, and who are the par t icipants?
10 A. That ' s August 11th. This is 7:50 a.m. in the dining room
11 wi th Steven Easter and Bradford Dodson.
13 BY MR. IASPARRO:
14 Q. Agent Smi th, the person that just got up from the couch, who
15 is that?
16 A. That ' s Bradford Dodson .
17 Q. Based upon your knowledge of the house and this video cl ip ,
18 where did Bradford Dodson go?
19 A. He went from the dining room into the l iving room and then
20 into the bedroom.
21 Q. Is i t fai r to say that microphones at the house were rather
22 sensi t ive?
23 A. Yes, they were, depending what posi t ion the individuals
24 speaking were at , the level of thei r voice . So, the volume
25 could shi f t suddenly.

269
Smi th - Di rect
2 BY MR. IASPARRO:
3 Q. Agent Smi th, based upon your invest igat ion and the video
4 cl ip that you just wi tnessed, what just happened there?
5 A. Bradford Dodson returned to Steven Easter , told him that she
6 wanted sof t , meaning heroin, and Easter told him where the
7 heroin was and took that and then walked back to the window.
8 Q. The back window?
9 A. That ' s correct , the bedroom window.
10 Q. I ' d next l ike to play cl ip 11 based upon Government ' s
11 Exhibi t 9, Agent Smi th. When was cl ip 11, and who were the
12 par t icipants?
13 A. Cl ip 11 is August 11th , 2005, at 3:52 in the af ternoon.
14 I t ' s the l iving room. You see Steven Easter and Mont rel l
15 McSwain.
17 BY MR. IASPARRO:
18 Q. Agent Smi th, based on the context of that conversat ion in
19 cl ip 11, where Mont rel l McSwain said, "We ain ' t stopped jukin '
20 in fours years," what did jukin ' mean?
21 A. Jukin ' in that context is sel l ing drugs.
22 Q. And the term cluckers is also used or was also used in that
23 cl ip. Based upon the invest igat ion, did you learn what the term
24 cluckers means?
25 A. Yes. Cluckers were any type of customer that was buying

270
Smi th - Di rect
1 dope, drugs .
2 Q. I ' d l ike to next play cl ip 12, Agent Smi th, based on the
3 summary you prepared.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What is cl ip 12?
6 A. This cl ip occurred on August 11th , 2005, at 4:20 in the
7 af ternoon in the l iving room. Steven Easter and Mont rel l
8 McSwain are present .
10 BY MR. IASPARRO:
11 Q. I ' d next l ike to play cl ip 26, Agent Smi th.
12 A. That would be August 12th at 10:04 p.m. in the ki tchen, and
13 you ' l l see Lee Al len.
15 BY MR. IASPARRO:
16 Q. Agent Smi th, what was Lee Al len doing in that video cl ip?
17 A. He was prepar ing hardware to put on the rear door of 1023
18 Kishwaukee.
19 Q. I ' d next l ike to play cl ip 34.
20 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, this cl ip is about two minutes
21 long.
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. This is August 13th at about 4:20 a.m. in the l iving room
25 wi th Anthony Glover , Lee Al len.

271
Smi th - Di rect
2 BY MR. IASPARRO:
3 Q. Agent Smi th, Anthony Glover just lef t the room. What did he
4 do?
5 A. I t looked l ike he walked to the window .
6 Q. The back bedroom window?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What is Lee Al len doing?
9 A. He ' s working. He looks l ike he ' s cut t ing a board there,
10 working on the front door at 1023 Kishwaukee.
12 BY MR. IASPARRO:
13 Q. At the end of that cl ip, Anthony Glover appeared to throw
14 something on the coffee table?
15 A. Yes. I t appeared to be drugs that he threw back down on the
16 coffee table.
17 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, this would be a good place to
18 stop for the af ternoon.
19 THE COURT: Al l r ight . We shal l conclude today ' s case,
20 and we wi l l resume tomorrow at 9:00 o ' clock in the morning. So,
21 I need al l of you here by, say, 8:45 because we ' l l star t
22 prompt ly at that t ime . We wi l l have coffee and donuts or bagels
23 or something for you at 8:30. So, please be here.
24 Don ' t discuss the case wi th anybody, l ike I ' ve said
25 before . Final ly, there could be press repor ts on this case, and

272
1 somet imes press repor ts go back and review pr ior press repor ts
2 which may have repor ted this case in the newspaper back some
3 t ime ago, and that ' s not evidence. And so, that ' s why I caut ion
4 you don ' t read, see, or hear anything about this case because i t
5 may discuss mat ters that are not in evidence, and you should not
6 consider i t , and i t may correct ly or inaccurately discuss
7 mat ters that went on in cour t today. And so, you just should
8 not expose yoursel f to this.
9 So, please don ' t read, see, or hear anything about i t .
10 If i t should be on television, quickly walk out of the room or
11 don ' t watch the news tonight . The same way wi th radio. Get
12 some nice music on, and don ' t l isten to news repor ts . And the
13 newspaper , read al l the sect ions except that have to do wi th
14 this case.
15 Wi th that , we ' l l see you al l tomorrow, and thank you.
18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . This case is concluded. Is
19 there anything that has to be brought up at this t ime or that
20 you know of?
21 MR. IASPARRO: I don ' t bel ieve so, Judge.
22 MR. TUNICK: Judge, I just wonder i f I can leave my
23 pr inter here. Is that possible?
24 THE COURT: I don ' t have a problem wi th i t .

273
1 MR. BYRD: Judge, you had indicated you ' d look into
2 having that put over there , maybe, on the table .
3 THE COURT: I wi l l do so.
4 MR. BYRD: Thank you.
5 THE COURT: Be back here ready to go at ten to 9:00 in
6 case there ' s a mot ion or something. Yes.
7 MR. SULLIVAN: Judge, i f I can interpose at this
8 moment . If any of the defendants make a mot ion , I would ask
9 that a mot ion for one would be considered a mot ion for al l .
10 THE COURT: If i t ' s an object ion --
11 MR. SULLIVAN: I meant object ion.
12 THE COURT: If you make an object ion and i t ' s not going
13 to be that i t doesn ' t per tain to my cl ient , I ' l l l isten to the
14 object ion. That can stand for al l .
15 MR. TUNICK: I have one other issue, Judge. I ' m used
16 to the pract ice in the Nor thern Dist r ict where we ' re tendered
17 the exhibi ts, the actual copies of the exhibi ts . For example,
18 they had the order author izing the wi re, the Ti t le III
19 author izat ion, and the pictures . They int roduced the pictures ,
20 and I ' m at a loss to see why they just don ' t tender copies to
21 the defense lawyers.
22 THE COURT: They general ly do. Or show those to you.
23 MR. TUNICK: Show . But I ' m not given copies. I mean ,
24 this is a voluminous case. I mean, i f --
25 THE COURT: I understand. I understand what you ' re

274
1 saying. Showing them the or iginals doesn ' t real ly help is what
2 he ' s saying because he doesn ' t know which ones of al l those
3 photographs you ' re going to offer .
4 MR. IASPARRO: Judge, there are l i teral ly --
5 THE COURT: I mean not offer , but publ ish.
6 MR. IASPARRO: There are hundreds and hundreds of
7 photographs , as you might imagine in this case.
8 THE COURT: But you know which ones you ' re going to --
9 you ' ve obviously picked out a dozen or so that you used. If
10 you ' ve got that , you can make a photocopy of that .
11 MR. IASPARRO: Fine.
12 THE COURT: That ' s not a problem on the photos.
13 Anything else?
14 MR. IASPARRO: I would note, Judge, that al l defense
15 counsel had the oppor tuni ty to view these photos. None did.
16 THE COURT: I understand. But when i t comes down to --
17 what you ' ve done is l imi t i t to a dozen or so. I think they
18 ought to -- you can pass one copy, and they can look at them
19 before you star t quest ioning the wi tness.
20 MR. IASPARRO: That ' s f ine, Judge .
21 MR. TUNICK: Thank you .
22 THE COURT: Al l r ight . That concludes i t . You may
23 take the defendants back. Do we have a CSO?
24 Mr . Iasparro, would you contact the Clerk and see
25 whether they can move that moni tor over?

275
1 MR. IASPARRO: I wi l l , Judge .
3 (Whereupon, the wi thin t r ial was adjourned to Tuesday,
4 May 15, 2007, at 8:45 o ' clock a. m. )
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Allen Trial 1 May 14 2007

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1

1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Docket No. 05 CR 50082

12 For the Government : HON. PATRICK J. FITZGERALD

16 For the Defendant McSwain: BYRD & TAYLOR

24 Cour t Repor ter : Mary T. Lindbloom

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1 (The fol lowing proceedings were had in open cour t , out of

2 the presence and hear ing of the jury: )

3 THE CLERK: 05 CR 50082 , U.S .A. v. McSwain, Dodson, and

5 THE COURT: Al l r ight . I ' d l ike the lawyers to

6 approach the podium, please.

7 MR. IASPARRO: Good morning, your Honor . Michael

8 Iasparro and Mark Karner on behal f of the Uni ted States.

9 THE COURT: Good morning.

10 MR. TUNICK: Good morning, your Honor . James Tunick on

11 behal f of Lee Al len, who ' s present .

12 THE COURT: Good morning.

13 MR. BYRD: Good morning, your Honor . Mark Byrd on

15 THE COURT: Al l r ight . Good morning.

16 MR. SULLIVAN: Good morning, your Honor . Don Sul l ivan

17 on behal f of Bradford Dodson, who is also present .

18 THE COURT: Al l r ight . This case is scheduled to go to

20 defendants at this t ime?

21 MR. BYRD: Not on behal f of Mr . McSwain, Judge.

22 MR. SULLIVAN: No. Mr . Dodson persists in his

24 THE COURT: Al l r ight . The last t ime I was in cour t ,

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1 not ice; is that correct?

2 MR. IASPARRO: And we have, as to both Mr . McSwain and

4 THE COURT: Al l r ight . And you ' ve explained to both of

5 them the effect of that not ice?

6 MR. BYRD: Your Honor , we ' ve talked about that , yes.

7 MR. SULLIVAN: I did discuss i t . If I could have a

8 moment to ver i fy that he understood that .

9 THE COURT: Wel l , i t would be i f cer tain quant i t ies are

10 found, i t would be based upon a pr ior convict ion that would

11 increase the mandatory minimum to 20 years . Is that accurate,

13 MR. IASPARRO: For Count 1, that ' s correct , Judge.

14 MR. BYRD: If we could have a moment .

15 THE COURT: Go ahead.

16 MR. TUNICK: Judge, whi le they ' re taking a moment wi th

17 thei r cl ients, can I raise an issue?

18 THE COURT: You may.

19 MR. TUNICK: Thank you , Judge. Wel l , last night going

25 can show i t to the government . I think they would agree that

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5 MR. TUNICK: I understand, Judge. And i t has Lee Al len

6 on the top. He doesn ' t par t icipate in this conversat ion at al l ,

7 Judge. He ' s not -- there ' s no words at t r ibuted to him in the

8 t ranscr ipt i tsel f , and the reason for that is because he

9 actual ly leaves the room. He ' s on there at the beginning. He

12 Now, he ' s on the top of the t ranscr ipts, which might

14 So, I object to -- I know the government wants to use this cl ip

15 because i t shows a very, very shor t per iod of t ime of him

22 also I have a problem wi th this par t icular t ranscr ipt , Judge.

23 THE COURT: Fi rst , as to the words, you can confer wi th

24 Mr . Iasparro, and there ' s a way to remedy that . If Mr . Iasparro

25 agrees that the words are inaccurate, you can delete i t . If

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2 who t ranscr ibed i t interprets i t , then you ' re al lowed to present

6 t ranscr ipts wi l l not be admi t ted as evidence. I do not admi t

7 them. They are just marked as an exhibi t .

8 As to the second issue, I think that should be -- i f