Stephen Lewis, founder of EMC2, created the AIM Program of Energetic Balancing after an extensive study of the

intersection of quantum physics and spirituality. Essentially, the AIM Program locates an unbalanced energy frequency
in someone’s consciousness and sets it right by delivering the corrected frequency around the clock. Think of
searching through the frequencies on a radio—when you’re in between stations, all you get is static, but land on the
right frequency, and the station comes through with clarity. People on the program accept only the few frequencies
they require for healing; their consciousness knows what they need.

The Rife frequencies are a very powerful tool to give the body the help it needs to heal. Recent research shows that
viruses, bacterium, parasites and other pathogens are sensitive to a specific “frequency” and can be eliminated by
applying that same frequency until the microbes “disintegrate.” This “electronic antimicrobial system” is rapid,
painless and FREE of Side Effects. It’s like plugging in an immune system.

All living and non-living things have a vibration or frequency. Dr. Royal Rife demonstrated that all microorganisms
have a specific frequency. This frequency can vibrate organisms to the point of collapse. Rife used various square
wave frequencies transmitted radiantly (radio) and by direct micro current to destroy microbes. Seventy years of
research indicates that using square-wave technology does not damage healthy cells. Square Waves can inhibit
Microbial Growth and also seems to improve the oxygen-carrying capacity of blood cells.

http://podcast.drpompa.com/episodes/127-cellular-healing-for-lyme-and-autism
Meredith:
Hello, everyone. Meredith Dykstra here, your host for Cellular Healing TV. Welcome. This is episode 127. So
excited you’re joining us. We have Dr. Dan Pompa on the line, of course, our resident cellular healing specialist, and
today we have a very special guest for you. His name is Michael Payne. He is an expert in autism and Lyme
disease. We’re going to be really delving deeply into those topics today.
Before we get started here, let me tell you guys a little bit more about Michael. Michael Payne is the founder of
Living Well Today International and the creator of Solamar Solution. He graduated from the Medical College of
Virginia at VCU with a Master’s degree in rehabilitation and is a visionary thinker about the disorders of the
21st century complex patient.
Michael has been engaged for many years in helping families with autism and Lyme disease. With a synergistic
blend of functional medicine, restorative endocrinology, and bio-therapeutics, Michael is known as an innovator in
autoimmune and neurological rehabilitation. He’s a popular speaker and has been featured at the Lyme Induced
Autism Conference, several ZYTO conferences, and many autism organizations, and national radio shows.
Welcome, Michael. We’re so excited to have you on Cellular Healing TV.
Michael:
Thank you. Thank you. It’s very exciting to be here. I get to talk to people who are smart and need to know the
message about autism and Lyme.
Dr. Pompa:
Listen, these are some of our favorite subjects here on Cell TV. Why? It’s a cellular problem, and we’re going to talk
about that.
Michael:
All right.
Dr. Pompa:
You know, Michael, you’ve been doing this a long time. You lined up with our cellular message, and you’re one of
our really important, core doctors doing this work and making a difference. First of all, we want to thank you for
being on the show, and we want to thank you for the work that you’re doing. You’re spreading this message, and we
are truly grateful for that.
You know, Michael, I always love starting by asking this conversation. Okay. How in the world did you get involved
with Lyme and autism? Come on. These are the most controversial topics out there. You must have a big target on
your back, and here we come. Why these two?

Michael:
Until this show, I’ve made very – the past five years, I’ve decided not to be very well known, and I tried to cover my
footprints.
Dr. Pompa:
Very smart.
Michael:
We were on that way, and so here’s how we got into it. In nineteen – whatever it was – 1992, I actually broke my
neck, and I was paralyzed. I was an investment banker for 20 years.
Dr. Pompa:
Oh, wow!
Michael:
In ’93, I couldn’t really come out of the house for a couple years – well, for a year. Then I went to therapy, and
someone said, “Well, if you’re not going to be who you’re going to be, who are you going to be?” I went to a place
called Medical College of Virginia, and they said, “You ought to meet with the head of the department.” I started just
taking classes, and one day, I had a degree. I’m really not sure how that happened. I kept working at it and working
at it.
One day, a woman named – a local doctor, who is famous for autism. I said, “You know, I think I can help the kids. I
think we know something of -inaudible- medicine. It’s not just about giving them an antibiotic, or Klonopin, or
something of that nature, and trying to cover the symptoms. I think they have significant gut issues.” I had learned
about that in a place called Functional Medicine. All of us kind of know who Jeff Bland is.
Dr. Pompa:
Yep. Yep.
Michael:
Some of my friends would get in cars, and we’d drive around, and follow Jeff Bland. The first time I ever went to the
meeting, it wasn’t really – I couldn’t understand the words, but I basically flicked my Bic, and went just something
like a 1968 concert. The bottom line was he was very intelligent, and his words helped heal me because I used
things that were anti-inflammatory. I used a lot of things to rebuild bone and connective tissues. It was functional,
not necessarily bio – not necessarily medical.
Functional Medicine was where we started, and I did that for my own. I’m a pretty selfish guy until I started getting at
the 5,000 kids with autism. You can only imagine, as an investment banker, that I might be that way. I really did it for
myself if you really want to know the truth. By 1998, I had enough energy to maybe try something, so I started
wandering back into – some reason, they let me in this medical school downtown, and I got a degree in brain and
spinal cord rehabilitation.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. That’s awesome. Somehow, you ended up in our cellular world.
Michael:
Yeah. It’s kind of interesting. When you’re working with the most difficult people on the planet, Lyme, autism, Lou
Gehrig’s – I don’t do Alzheimer’s. There’s a certain trend – I work with Parkinson’s. I work with actually several what
you would call ALS, I guess. We see, actually, an underlying theme. As we drilled down, we went through Functional
Medicine. I’m a homeopath, or a homotoxicologist. They’d just written an article about me in Europe called Waves of
the Future. I use laser, and hyperbaric, and LiveO2 oxygen. I kept drilling down, and drilling down, and then you
appeared. I used to actually speak for a network marketing company that had some zeolites, and they actually
worked pretty good, but not really where we wanted to go.
Then this whole idea of fractionating it down to a smaller piece – the way I explain it to my patients is we started with
a basketball, and we went to a volleyball, and then we went to a ping-pong ball. Now, we’re down to a BB to get into
the cells and actually clean up the cells. As my life progressed over this past 15 years and 10,000 patients, I just
had a passion for making their lives better.

We kept drilling down and drilling down. We have a comprehensive rehabilitation program. I don’t treat Lyme. I don’t
treat any of it. I treat neuro-immune dysfunction caused by cellular toxicity. When you came out with your studies
and your message, I said, “Well, this guy sounds just like me. I think I will – as opposed to recreating it, I’d like to get
on this – in this train of thought and see how we can further this program in order to help people because that’s
where the problem is.”

We got down to autism about five, six years ago, and we started running mitochondrial disorder type blood testing. It
turned out, I would say 80% of them could measure mitochondria dysfunction. If you don’t start there, the rest of it is
just a waste – not a waste of time, but it’s – you get violent, vicious cycles in autism.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s remarkable. Years ago, in my research, when I literally started coming up with the 5 Rs – and I could never say
that I came up with it because the way it was organized, I’m telling you, God spoke through me. However, when I
started researching this, it really was a cell energy problem, and so much of it focused on mitochondria. Just
thinking past shows, I talked to Dr. Joe Mercola. Our whole focus was the mitochondria. If you bring up the
mitochondria to Joe Mercola, he literally starts wagging his tail, and he almost comes out of his skin, literally. I’m
telling you, it’s –
Michael:
I’ve been in the same room with Joe, and he does have a tail. I will agree with that.
Dr. Pompa:
He wags that tail. He gets darn excited. He really has a great heart to make a difference, and he experiments –
Michael:
He’s a warrior.
Dr. Pompa:
He’s a warrior. He really is, and he experiments on himself. I do stuff to my kids to experiment on.
Michael:
Yeah.
Dr. Pompa:
It’s easier than just – yeah. Then I interviewed Thomas Seyfried. Cancer, it’s a metabolic issue, right? Warburg, all
the way back in the early 1900’s, showed this is a mitochondrial issue. For those laypeople watching this right now,
your mitochondria is where you produce all of your cellular energy. I’m telling you, it is under attack today. Whether
it’s Lyme disease, which we’ll get to, or autism – and then, hey, Meredith? You sent me over – and Michael, I’ll send
it over to you – just a great article where they’re examining the research. I’m just looking at it now.
This person who wrote the article was disturbed by the fact that they hear all of this research on the mitochondria
and how it’s linked to all these different conditions and diseases, and yet, they weren’t talking about toxins, the
medications, and even the vaccinations that are really damaging the mitochondria. They kind of surfaced over it.
Meanwhile, this is what all the studies are showing, and yet because the drug companies don’t want to go there,
we’re not hearing it in the media what’s happening to the mitochondria because of toxins, Michael. Like I said, even
toxins from medications and vaccinations, doctor-given, iatrogenic disease, where they’re causing the illness – but
even the toxins from our environment.

Unfortunately, people are [slaying] over it, but that’s the issue, Michael, is that people’s mitochondrias aren’t
working. They’re dysfunctioning. Yes, it leads to cancer. You said it in the beginning of this show. You said we see
this – basically all these neuro-degenerative issues that are happening in adults. Really, it’s adult autism. It’s the
same problem, right, Michael? What are you seeing there?

Michael:
It really is. There’s specific parts of the brain. It starts by the fact if you have a leaky gut, you have leaky veins, and
eventually, you have a leaky brain.
Dr. Pompa:
That’s right.
Michael:
Actually, in the Vargas studies at John Hopkins, you would see that inflammatory cytokines – even if you still believe
in the blood-brain barrier, inflammatory cytokines go to the midbrain area and start to dysregulate your circadian
rhythms. They then alter the way you have memory, mood, and behavior, and this inflammation in the midbrain area
actually causes the beginning of all that tissue damage. Parkinson’s is called neurofibrillary entanglement. That is a
slow burn, basically, of the substantia nigra.
You go to probably still some of the chemistries in autism, but – not autism, but Alzheimer’s. What you see is this
instant inflammatory rush through the brain either by virus or by, again, iatrogenic issues that we might be putting
young children through. Basically, what it starts to do is this inflammatory issue specifically in the midbrain, the
meninges – and that’s where the study is. You would like this study that I have. It’s NIH and University of Virginia.
They have discovered and have everything that they have to say. They have discovered that the brain has immune
system in it.

Dr. Pompa:
Ah!
Meredith:
Hmm.
Michael:
Hmm. Strangely enough, because it was so hard to see – it was lymphatic drainage. Because it was so hard to see,
they didn’t know it was there. Then I got 100 responses saying, “Well, don’t they know this in Europe, Mike? You’ve
been saying this for 10 years.” I used to be on a homeopathic board called GUNA, and I worked with GUNA quite a
bit. They talk about cytokines, chemokines, and all this signaling between the nervous system and the immune
system as your first defense.
What happens is when you’re young, especially, you can’t defend yourself against everything that we’re throwing at
these young kids. Their blood-brain barrier isn’t fully developed for probably two years. It doesn’t matter what the
infection is, but then we come out, and we just systematically start the process. You see it in genetically modified
foods. You see it in using antibiotics and imbalancing the microbiome, which generates its own set of problems.
Then you see it in viruses that are attached to certain things like cytomegalo, Epstein-Barr, and the rest. You’ve got
a constant assault against the immune system.

I think this is the most important thing to understand. The immune system says, “Hey, I need some help.” There’s a
feedback loop, and that’s where the signaling is and that new thing they discovered, lymphatic drainage. They said
the nervous system has its own immune system. Wow! There is a feedback, and so the feedback then says, “Hey,
I’m in trouble down here.”

Dr. Pompa:
That’s right.
Michael:
Here’s the homeopathic version of it. The body gets tired of defending itself, so it adopts to a non-response. It
adopts to a non-response leaving opportunistic infections in a way to take over the microbiome. Then we start
generating inflammatory cytokines than end up in the brain, end up in joints, end up everywhere.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. For our viewers, cytokines, it’s part of the immunity, right? Cytokines drive inflammation to protect itself from a
virus or any type of invader. However, when it becomes chronic, now we have cytokines driving inflammation
chronically. Now we have inflammation chronically in the brain, gut, wherever. Now we have massive interference
and massive disruption at the cellular level. Okay. Let’s take the conversation further.
Michael:
Okay.
Dr. Pompa:
We know this is happening, so great. What are we doing about it? This is a different approach than the medical field
is doing, obviously. I don’t know what they’re doing at this point, if anything at all.
Michael:
I think there’s room for all of us in this if we can get standing, but this is really good science. This is not some kind of
guy standing on the corner going, “I went to this school or this school – or I’ve got an online degree, and” – it is real
science, and it’s science yet to be seen mainly because nobody’s studied the brain.
There was a release today that they mapped the brain. There’s 100 new regions they didn’t know. Of course there
is. It’s called the default mode network. There’s all kinds of microglia and all that kind of stuff that are carrying
message, and it’s a pulse message. When the cells are dirty, there’s mitochondria reactivity in the brain, there’s
oxidated stress. Then it fills with things like aldehyde, ammonia. In the mold people, what we’re seeing is you’re
making your own carbon monoxide.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.
Meredith:
Hmm!
Michael:
You can only imagine a brain steeped in carbon monoxide trying to think or behave. You don’t have any point of
reference, and you don’t have any way to create learning, memory, or behavior that is a responsible – in a
responsible way.
Dr. Pompa:
You know what, Michael? You know, my message is, look, you have to fix the cell to get well, but more specifically,
you have to detox the cell to get well. What you said is so true. We have a faulty cell. The cell itself is making energy
and not able, once it’s dysfunctioning, to get rid of the very toxins it makes. Then the cell becomes more and more
toxic. You’re saying is the brain is becoming more and more toxic. It’s starts producing even more toxins like carbon
monoxide, ammonia, all of these things. They start building up, and this is the key. Really, detox, again, we have to
upregulate cell function so it can do the job of getting rid of these things. Again, a colon cleanse is not – or a juice
cleanse is not going to change what you just described in the brain.
Michael:
It is not because it’s kind of trapped in there, and you need special kind of ideas to provoke the release. The first
thing is cell nutrients, and ATP, and that sort of stuff is really important. We’ve got some other ways of dealing with
that. One of the things that also happens – it’s just like what you say in your education pieces. The first thing that
happens is the cell becomes overwhelmed. It then goes into a state of oxidative stress. It can’t carry the energy from
the energy source into what – basically, there’s a fuel barn over at the nuclear power plant in here, and they carry
the fuel called ATP over to the incinerator on, say – let’s just call it a John Deere tractor, which is really called a
chaperone molecule.
You can’t complete the synthesis, so you don’t have enough energy. The cell becomes overwhelmed, and then the
cell becomes toxic. You’ve got to feed the cell. You’ve got to reduce the inflammation. You got to feed the cell to
make sure it’s starting to do what it’s supposed to do.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely.
Michael:
Then you clear the oxidative stress, and that’s where you have made a big difference.
Dr. Pompa:
R number 4 is inflammation oxidation. You have to clear that. R number 3 is what you just described, the ATP.
That’s restoring cellular energy. Yeah, no doubt. It’s funny because you and I had the methylation conversation. In
the autism world, that was the big thing, identifying the MTHFR genotypes. We thought we solved the whole
problem. As it turned out, okay, great. All these autistic kids have methylation issues, right?
Michael:
Right. It helped some.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. It’s just a part of the picture. It’s one part of the picture, I should say. If you don’t deal with these issues, then
what’s going to happen? Nothing.
Michael:
We had to continue to drill down. I ran over 750 genetics tests from 2004 to 2007.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.
Michael:
I went, “Okay. I don’t think it’s going to take us anywhere.” There were people who did it infinitely much better than I
did. Right brain or left brain, whatever it is, said that they -inaudible-.
Dr. Pompa:
Listen, Amy Ascough did it better than any of us, right? My gosh!
Michael:
Mm-hmm. I didn’t want to use her name in case, but I was the Amy Ascough darling from 2003 to 2006. Nobody
else was paying attention to her, and I said, “I don’t want to do this DAN! method anymore. I actually left my DAN!
doctor that I was working with and became the Amy Ascough darling until about 2006. I ran about 750 panels.
Dr. Pompa:
You went through the same evolution I did with autism, right? It was that the DANs protocol – the basic core of that
was fish oils and probiotic, right?
Michael:
Yeah. Right.
Dr. Pompa:
There was a few other nuances, but that was pretty much it.
Michael:
I’m so glad because I wasn’t very bright in those days. Yeah, that’s what it was.
Dr. Pompa:
People are still doing that, thinking they’re going to get the result. Then it went to the genetic thing. We both came
out of that realizing, “Okay. We’re really not any further along as far as really helping these cases,” so same
evolution we went through. Now, here we are today, both at the cell, going, “This is the issue.”
Michael:
Mm-hmm. This is the issue, and there’s so much richness of what we need to continue to do there. Some of the
things that we’ve wrapped around that is actually pulse technologies that were supported. They call them rife
machines, and Tesla lights, and things like that. We do all of them, but the reality is – and we’re waiting to see.
We’re building our own kind of equipment through a lot of expert engineers around the world to see how this can be
restorative.
Most people think about it just killing things, but there are restorative frequencies to the cell. You and I both know
that the cell gate, the calcium channels and other things, are gated by a voltage. Until you clear the metabolic waste
inside the cell, there’s no way to recharge the voltage. The voltage opens and closes the calcium channel.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.
Michael:
There’s something called a G alpha protein that regulates that. We’ve got to turn that one on, as well, to enhance
detoxification and removing the metabolic waste. There may be more to it.
Dr. Pompa:
It’s such a relief and a breath of fresh air when you resonate with someone else that realizes that true detox is a
cellular issue. You kept saying that word. “We have to get the cell to remove the debris. We have to get the cell” –
yes! Yes! That’s the truth. Really, that’s what my 5 Rs is is that roadmap. Remove the sources, right?
Michael:
That’s right.
Dr. Pompa:
R number 2 is we have to regenerate these membranes, the outer and that mitochondrial membrane. That leads
right into R 3, restoring cell energy. You said it. We’re reducing the oxidative stress and inflammation, and then
finally methylation. Finally, methylation.
Michael:
Finally, methylation. I spent years talking about, “Well, yeah. That is a COMT. If we’re going to get the MTHFR to
talk to the CMT, and the CBS, and the SUOX, we have to make it work a certain way, and we have to enter these in
at a certain time.” It just didn’t work.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. No. It’s too complex. Michael, my gosh, it’s like every few months that we realize, “Oh, there’s another
pathway that adapts to this pathway, and this new” – we’re so far behind.
Michael:
What I called it was we’re in the middle of a spinning Rubik’s Cube, and we just hope all the colors line up on one
side sometime. That’s basically what it was.
Dr. Pompa:
It’s true. Ultimately, I think we love the complexity of things. However, the answer is always something more simple
than that. How about remove the interference, and the body does the healing, honestly? It sounds trite, but it is
honestly that simple. We have to go all the way upstream and say, “Okay. We know this is breaking in the cell. We
know that cells are malfunctioning. What’s causing it, and what can we do to fix it and remove it?” No. It’s not
looking at the next genome – Rubik’s Cube, that’s for sure.
Michael:
That’s where we came. Then when a lovely doctor that we’ll be working with – and again, medical people need to
know about it, as well as rehabilitation people. They should be working side-by-side with this idea.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no doubt.
Michael:
Dr. Caldwell, between us, we’ve seen 30,000 autistic kids. She’s seen 20; I’ve seen five or ten. It’s been really
important. We’ve got a couple, again, that every time – a couple of kids that we’ve introduced it to very rapidly, and
it’s been very good. Some of the great examples of what we’ve experienced already is when we added the
homeopathic remedies staged in just after we’ve gotten the cell a little cleansed. We’ve been able to kind of – not
kind of, but specifically remove remnants of cytomegalovirus. Again, I don’t know if I want to be saying that on any
kind of YouTube. We’ve been able to mitigate the infection, and people stop crashing from their CMV infection, or
EBV.
The other ones have been actually even more metabolic. A 62-year-old woman who – just so much clearer in her
thinking. She’s been a health nut forever, and at this point, the clarity in her thinking, the brain fog – so what I think
it’s doing is removing the ammonia, even as well as the aldehydes.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.
Michael:
We’ll get data on that as time goes by. Probably the most interesting one is this 60-year-old doctor who had Lyme.
She’s not by you, but she’s on the West Coast, there – that we work with. Auto crash, brain injury, been in recovery
for a number of years. I’ve had her for the last two years. Between this and some homeopathic remedies that we
use, she actually had a big response just this past week in her thinking. Strangely enough, it is CytoDetox plus
BIND. It really does help. I think you’ve got to have a binder and –
Dr. Pompa:
The CytoDetox, you referenced in the very beginning of our conversation. It’s unique because not only does it get
into the cell, it crosses into the brain. It’s a unique particle because it does bind a lot of these wastes that you’re
talking about, the ammonia, these very small particles, even biotoxins. There’s research even showing how it can
bind virus and these types of things. It’s really an interesting particle to work with, something that goes into the cell,
cleans up the cell, but also the brain.
When you put it in a system that we call true cellular detox, where we’re grabbing it to make sure it goes all the way
out of the body, it has to be at the cornerstone of what we do. I’m interested, Michael, and I know that our viewers
are, as well, some of the pulsed therapy that – you’re a real expert here. We get it. Some of our viewers understand
rife machines for killing, and you’ve mentioned that. Hitting the same frequency, and viruses, Lyme, spirochetes,
they can die. That technology has been around for a long time.

You mentioned the healing component of some of these. We’ve heard, maybe, PEMF, different – there’s all types of
different frequency machines. How do they work? What do they do? What are some really good ones that you might
recommend to our viewers that could be part of their therapy?

Michael:
Yeah. That’s a really great question, and thank you for letting me talk about it. We’ve been at it about six years. The
reason is, again, we kept getting to these places where we couldn’t push through the barrier. What we needed to do
is find a pulsing idea, and a pulse. That’s the key.
The first thing that we do with it is we restore collagen. Think about it, Doctor. The first place that all of this injures is
basically the collagen. The collagen is the base regulating system of the body. Once the cell is healthy, we really
need to have that to be able to travel. Guess where it travels. It travels across the ligaments. It travels across the
collagen. Even your bones are very much alive because it has a periosteum around it. That’s collagen. Frequency is
traveling through your collagen to restore those cells.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. I know PEMF is a pulsed electromagnetic type of frequency. Is that one of the devices, just one? There’s
many, and I know [00:28:16]
Michael:
We have that as actually secondary. I’ll tell you who we use. We use Pulsed Technology in Plano, Texas, and we
use BCX Ultra. The people thank me for both of those. It facilitates a more rapid healing. What we’re trying to do is
restore the energy flow because you’ve been cut off for so long, you don’t even know how to retrain the energy.
Something like a frequency of 1028 restores collagen. When it restores collagen, now that you have your cell
healthy, it can send a message – you have 45 brain cells in your heart – 45,000 brain cells in your heart. If the
collagen is healthy, the information can travel back and forth.
Dr. Pompa:
It’s a unique way to R number 3. I always say that if we don’t restore cellular energy, it’s very difficult even to get
anything else working in the cell. It’s impossible to detox. It’s impossible to downregulate inflammation of the cell.
This is an interesting way, it sounds like, to get the energy going. Is that really the whole point of it?
Michael:
The whole point of it – there’s two kind of energy that you’re really going to see in the future. One is pulse
technologies, and two is biophotonic. What that means is laser. A lot of chiropractors have lasers, but yet again, all
they do is use it to manage pain and a few things like that. There’s places in the brain that should be treated, as
well.
For that one, we use a 250-watt laser, a 100-watt laser, which sounds very powerful, even a 45-watt laser if you
can’t afford the other ones, and basically, that allows, again, the information to flow through the system. It pushes
out, especially in the mitochondria – you should be more interested of laser. The light comes into the mitochondria
and converts from light to energy. It restores energy in the mitochondria. Laser’s a fantastic one, but you got to
expand your vision of how you’re going to use it.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. What are some of your favorite lasers for that very purpose?
Michael:
I’m very limited in that one. A couple of mine are actually – but the Q.Light is very good. I don’t go up to the $45,000
lasers. I do have a $22,000 that’s made by a person here in Richmond, Virginia.
Dr. Pompa:
I’m just wondering, it’s like, “Okay. Great.” A lot of our docs use these things, like you said, probably more for pain
than even the folks that you’re talking about as far as getting the mitochondria to produce the ATP that it needs. Is
there anything on the market for just the average user that they could purchase that’s in a reasonable price range?
Michael:
Yeah, Q.Light, between $3,000 and $5,000. It has – Yeah – not 22,000. The 22,000s are – I think they’re reserved
for people who have to really treat difficult cases.
Dr. Pompa:
Right. I want our viewers to see, too, it’s a piece of this puzzle, right? Remember, this is one R.
Michael:
It is one often – I’m glad you talked about it, but it is, in fact, one R.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. It’s really unique. This science here interests me greatly. I’ve followed rife for Lyme for years. I had an old
Doug Coil rife machine. It still works. You’re using some of the rife technology not just to kill bacteria, Lyme disease,
etcetera, but you’re using some of the rife technology for stimulating healing?
Michael:
Yes. When you go to higher frequencies, not just at 727 or any of those kind – some of the machines that I have are
generating frequencies at 39,000.
Dr. Pompa:
What are some of the Lyme frequencies that actually resonate at the same frequency Lyme does? What are some
of those frequencies?
Michael:
Forty thousand will push it out, 40,000 hertz, or if you go down to six – if your machine does six, ten, or forty, it’s a
good start. It’ll start healing the body in a way – it’ll bring it to a higher vibratory rate so there won’t be any, shall we
say – your body will heal itself. It’ll push everything out. Forty thousand is my favorite because everybody gets
better. Nobody gets bored in a meeting if you play 40,000 across the room. Everybody just starts getting – but you
can go down to 10,000. You can go down to 6,000. We’ve been up as high as 300,000 for certain – like Ehrlichia
and those kind of things.
There’s a woman named Charlotte [Bone], or [Char-Bone] and Nina Silver. If people need to do a lot of reading,
Nine Silver’s book is the definition of frequency medicine for Lyme disease.

Dr. Pompa:
You could pick up rife machines – there’s always rife machines for sale. If you get on these Lyme logs – people
have picked them up for $500. Again, people use them, and then stop using them, and they sell them. It’s kind of
like the exercise equipment you see -inaudible-.
Michael:
The reason that they’re selling them is because they got rife fatigue because of all the literature, really, saying, “Let’s
blow these things up. Let’s blow these things up.” None of them talk about restoring brain function and neuro-
immune communication. That’s what we’re leaders in.
Dr. Pompa:
Exactly. That’s why I wanted you to talk about it because I think that people have to understand this is a whole new
technology using this type of machine. Okay. What are some of the frequencies that you’re using for that, healing
these – getting the brain to heal – I should say, the body to heal the brain?
Michael:
Again, they have to be higher frequencies, and they’re between 40,000 and 60,000. You really have to go much
higher. You have to have a machine that will generate them. The first thing is I have personal frequencies, and I
could go get those for you, to be honest with you, but it’s kind of like having a cell phone. I don’t know what my
wife’s phone number is right this minute. I just hit a button because I programmed it in a long time ago.
Dr. Pompa:
Exactly. It’s so true. Yeah.
Michael:
I’m just going to tell you it’s 40,000. If you don’t know, 40,000 is the number.
Dr. Pompa:
Hey, people love this. This is great. I guarantee you we have a lot of viewers who have these machines, use these
machines. I’m always asked the question, and I’m like, “Hey, look. I’m not the expert here.” I use one. I have a lot of
my clients who use them, but there’s a lot of experimentation that has to go along with finding the right frequencies.
Michael:
It might be, because I just don’t want to say it online. Sorry.
Dr. Pompa:
I don’t blame you. That’s exactly right. Okay. With the autism cases and what we can easily make this transition into
Lyme – Meredith, you look like a little angel sitting there.
Michael:
You did. What is that?
Meredith:
The sunshine is beaming in, so it’s very dramatic.
Michael:
I thought I was back at Lourdes having a whatever you call it – and ascension moment.
Meredith:
Oh, a spiritual experience here on Cellular Healing TV.
Dr. Pompa:
I was worried that you were ascending. I was worried that you were being raptured out at this very moment.
Michael:
My real worry was they gave a rapture, and I didn’t get to go.
Meredith:
Awww! We don’t want you to miss out.
Dr. Pompa:
Michael and I are left here. It’s so funny because I was reading the Bible this morning, and that was actually one of
the places I was reading. It talked about the rapture in Matthew. I was just always perplexed by how that’s all going
to happen. But anyways, that’s another subject. We got off track.
Michael:
That is another subject, but I got a long story there to tell you. I actually used to run these things called Emmaus
Walks, and then I went and actually walked in the wilderness for 40 days in a placed called Spain, northern Spain.
Meredith:
Fasting? Did you fast?
Michael:
Are you kidding? I tried, but I can’t speak to an angel right now and say that I did fast all the way. I really had a lot of
pistachios and native cheese. I walked from a place called Lourdes to a place called Santiago.
Dr. Pompa:
Over your left shoulder, there’s an angel, and then of course Meredith looking all angelic, this is very…
Meredith:
We have angels on the show today. We have a very spiritual presence here.
Michael:
Yes. That’s good. That’s good.
Dr. Pompa:
No doubt. Listen. The work that you’re doing is amazing. Ultimately, we got to fix this brain and this brain, and
ultimately, it boils down to fixing the cell. Tell us a little bit more before we transition into some of these Lyme cases,
which is a modern-day epidemic. Anything else that our autistic viewers or kids with autism should know?
Michael:
Yeah. It is a neuro-immune communication issue. The gut is wrapped in all kinds of immunity and brain cells. There
has to be feedback between the brain and the gut. Now, that’s been easily said, but that’s really autoimmune.
There’s so much junk in the cells and so much debris along the gut-associated lymphoid tissue that they always
have high histamines and cytokines, and they’re always in a state of inflammation, which basically separates or
creates a separation between memory, learning, and behavior – the centers of the brain responsible for memory,
learning, and behavior.
They are fully functional. They’re very bright. They just happen to be separated from certain functions in their brain. I
have great hope that I’m still working towards something that will help them. You can talk about all of it, but until we
really clean up the process, healthy mommy, healthy baby, and be concerned, and be critical, like Andrew Wakefield
talks about – we’re not badmouthing vaccines. Just examine and see what their role will be.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. People just need to do the investigation for themselves. The movie, Vaxxed, that Wakefield put out,
everybody needs to see that movie. It’s not an anti-vaccine movie. All it is is that William Thompson, the gentleman
who worked for the CDC, basically was told to fudge the numbers, change the numbers, to make it look like there’s
no connection with vaccination. That’s really what the movie’s about. It’s about a cover-up. It’s part of an education, I
think, that all of us need.
The pediatricians interviewed in that movie, they said, “Well, of course I believe the CDC. Well, of course. These
people are brilliant at the CDC.” Yet when they saw what happened, they, too, were stunned that the government
body there to protect us was fudging numbers. Look, I just tell people educate themselves, Michael. I’m not telling
you to vaccinate, not vaccinate. I’m telling you you better make wise choices today.

Michael:
Right. I’ve just got to say as the years have gone by, I can’t really – I’m probably saying the same thing some
government guy might say. It’s so multi-factorial at this point. The vaccines may just be the tipping point.
Dr. Pompa:
No. I agree. Listen, I agree. I don’t think the vaccines in and of themselves are the only problem. I think that kids
born with massive lead levels to moms who have lead, have silver fillings in their mouth – dump their mercury into
the child. I could go on and on. The fact is you’re right. Autism is an autoimmune condition. We know that moms that
are autoimmune, their chance of having a baby that are autoimmune or babies that are vaccine-damaged go
through the roof.
We are in an epidemic of toxins that are damaging the cell, and that’s this show, right? The vaccine is the thing – it’s
just one more thing. I do not believe –

Michael:
To step back from that just a little bit and say, I think in April when I come to your conference, we’ll be announcing
Healthy Mommy/Healthy Baby program worldwide because I’d like to have people 27 months is what I’d like to have
them. I’d like to detox them for nine months, clean them up, get them ready, get the hormones balances, get the
Starbucks out of their system, and birth control pills, and actually remove the debris and the remnants
homeopathically of the abhorrent vaccines.
Healthy Mommy/Healthy Baby has been one of our programs, but we just haven’t launched it. We just do it locally.
We’re going to use your pieces as a core for many – we’re going to have many wrappers around it. Healthy
Mommy/Healthy Baby should be one of them. Autism should be another one.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no doubt. Absolutely. Look, it’s generational. Lead affects four generations. We got lead out in the 1970s.
Four generations physically inherit it from mother to child. It’s genetically inherited because it’s turning on certain
genes, and it will affect four generations from the 1970s, just bringing it out alone with the four generations,
approximately 300 to 400 years.
We’ve been a mercury generation from mom to baby, and now the glyphosate generation, which we know
glyphosate’s being sprayed on everything that we’re eating, putting in our bodies. Seneff’s work showed that it
makes these heavy metals and other toxins go where? Deep into the brain, into the tissue. Man, I tell you, this is
where we have to wake up. If we want to affect autism, we better affect the mother’s health. I could not agree with
you more. It starts with a healthy mother, man. I’m on that, as well.

Michael:
It’s not their fault, but if they want to reduce the chances of that baby interacting with the current environmental
toxins, the generational environmental toxins, then we need to do something about it.
Dr. Pompa:
It’s not their fault. Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more, Michael. Okay. Lyme disease, there’s nothing more
controversial. I remember it wasn’t but 10 years ago that standard medicine said it didn’t even exist, Michael. How
far have we come?
Michael:
Kris Kristofferson said he had it, and Christina Aguilera said she had it. When important people get it, maybe
somebody will listen. It’s particularly bad – it started on the East Coast, and the birds migrated. When I used to be
called into a place called Albany, New York, they’d drive me out, and I’d see 40 people, and give a talk on new ways
of dealing with Lyme and autism, mainly Lyme in that case.
There’d be generations of Lyme disease people that literally – their blood was thick. They looked blue. If you hadn’t
been around them, they didn’t even know they were blue-looking. They’d been pharmacists and don’t even
remember going to pharmacy school. They have four kids, and all the kids have Lyme disease. That has kind of
come on down through, and ground central last year was Pennsylvania. It went through New Jersey. It’s here in the
top of Maryland and northern Virginia now. That doesn’t mean everybody else isn’t exposed. Lyme disease is a, yet
again, from the proteins and other things created in Lyme disease, is an autoimmune, neuro-immune dysfunction.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely.
Michael:
It is, in fact, an infection. It is, in fact, an infection that disrupts the brain. Then there are parasites associated that
are co-infections, like Brucellosis nematodes. There are Ehrlichias. There is such a vast – one person here has Lou
Gehrig’s or ALS, and it’s basically Rocky Mountain spotted fever moving through her nervous system into the
valvular areas of her brain.
The reality is that most of these brain-shrinking diseases are related to low-grade or even massive infection. I don’t
even know if you need a tick bite to have it anymore.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. No. I think that moms can pass it to children. There’s research now showing it can be sexually transmitted.
Yeah. Most people go, “I don’t remember being bit by a tick.” Here’s the interesting thing, Michael, is that there’s
places on the East Coast where it’s estimated that 90% of the people have been infected with Lyme, but yet all of
them aren’t sick, right?
Michael:
No –
Dr. Pompa:
Just like Epstein-Barr virus – we could go down a lot of lists. People have these viruses, but they aren’t sick, so what
does that tell us?
Michael:
It tells me that the neuro-immune response is different and stronger in their body. Here’s the bad news until lately,
but men could be out swimming in creeks and have chiggers and ticks. I would run people and find 600 times the
level of antibodies for Babesia or for Borrelia, and they didn’t even have a symptom.
Dr. Pompa:
No. I know. I see it, too, and it’s remarkable. I think that there’s two things here, at least from my perspective.
Genetics play a factor, of course, right, but then there’s also the other environmental load. These people that have
heavy metals that they’ve bioaccumulated for years, they get one of these bacteria or viruses, and their body is
already challenged. The immune system’s already distracted. These things have a place to hide from the immune
system, and lo and behold, it’s the perfect storm. It seems that your already neurotoxic load plays a significant role
in who gets sick.
Michael:
Look at the similarity again in autism. If I have a neurotoxic mother, autoimmune mother, the chances of that other
serial immune injuries will tip me to a chronic illness. If I come out relatively strong, and I have good neuro-immune
response, then I may not be affected the vaccine, or by the viruses, or by the Streptococcus that we just saw in a
local woman that works for me. We saw Strep infection at birth, and they put him right into the NICU because they
forgot to give them something that would – so right to the NICU. So many babies are going right to the NICU.
You’re right. If you have the toxic cellular burden that you and I are talking about, the likelihood of accepting it – you
know, it’s a vector disease, and here’s how vectors work: You’re shooting something into the vector, and the
immune system, unprepared to handle it, says, “Wow! I don’t know what that is. Should I fight it, or should I not?”

If it’s a vaccine, it goes into the vector and re-writes the code. If I don’t have the right genetics, it may say, “I don’t
know what that is. Should I be fighting this thing, or should I not?” Your immune system turns on automatically to
fight it, and it can’t fight anything else because it’s so busy fighting something that it didn’t have to fight. It doesn’t
have anything left over to fight the opportunistic infection.

Dr. Pompa:
You brought up autoimmune with autism, those people watching this would probably go, “What? Autism’s
autoimmune?” I did a talk several years ago, and I got – people were willing to fight me on that, that, in fact, is
autoimmune despite the literature that I felt supported that.
You said that Lyme disease is autoimmune. I’m sure many of our viewers, that’s the first time they’ve heard that. I
believe autoimmune is misdiagnosed, or I should say it this way, underdiagnosed because we just don’t have the
tests to really determine it. We don’t have names for it. It sounds like you’re in agreement with me, that autoimmune
is at the root of most unexplainable illnesses today.

Michael:
Mm-hmm. I’m in complete agreement with you because what it does, it creates an inflammatory neuro-immune
response in the meninges. That’s in the new study by NIH in the University of Virginia. It affects –
Dr. Pompa:
Michael, what are the meninges? What are the meninges?
Michael:
What’s that?
Dr. Pompa:
Tell our viewers what the meninges are.
Michael:
The meninges are coverings of cells and covering of neurological cells.
Dr. Pompa:
What you’re saying is their own immune system is attacking those areas. Correct?
Michael:
Right. What I’m saying is that the foreign objects traveling into the nervous system and even in the brain, the
microglia and other things are activating to fight it. That constant inflammatory response produces yet again another
thing, ammonia, peroxynitrites. The microglia activation begins the inflammatory process.
Dr. Pompa:
Right. The body’s driving this inflammation because it’s driving its own immune system.
Michael:
A homeopath might say, “Which is a great response.” A chiropractor might say, “That’s a great response,” but left
unattended and chronic, destroys the system.
Dr. Pompa:
Boom. That’s it. We want that response in an acute illness, but the problem is when it continues and continues,
that’s the difference there that we’re talking about. You know, Michael, in your years of experience, what’s the
answer, honestly? How do we shut off the immune system, Michael, because that’s really whether it’s autism, or
whether it’s Lyme, or whether it’s a neurodegenerative disease? How do we shut it down?
Michael:
Yeah. Really good question. We’re still looking for it, and we’re getting closer. Here’s the story: It’s not a drive-by
doctoring situation. You don’t just drive by and doctor it. “Oh, here’s your doxycycline for two weeks.” It’s a drive-by.
You don’t do a drive-by with this.
Again, what acupuncturists do, what homeopaths do, what chiropractors do – where I’m unique, I went to medical
school and studied brain and spinal cord injury for three years. It’s what I do, but it’s not usually from a medical
school. It’s usually from a chiropractic school or – anybody who understands energy. What is happening is it’s a
disruption of energy, cellular and all that wonderful stuff we don’t understand, that is prana, chi, or Holy Spirit
surrounding the cell.

We don’t completely understand that, but that is getting disrupted, so you’re really separated from your source. You
don’t have anything to. The answer is multi-factorial, or actually the response is multi-factorial. It has to be a
rehabilitation process, not a drive-by doctoring process.

Dr. Pompa:
I would encourage our viewers to watch an episode we did. Meredith could probably tell us the number here if she
looks it up. It was on the multi-therapeutic approach, Michael. You’ve heard me teach doctors this. It is a multi-
therapeutic approach. I want people to understand it’s not that one thing. Everyone goes looking for that one thing.
We incorporate the cellular detox that we’re talking about. We incorporate target supplements to really reduce
inflammation and to change the things – pathways that we’re talking about. We talk about [buffer] exercise. We
utilize ancient healing, fasting, intermittent fasting, diet variation, all of these things. We could add frequency to that,
Michael. We could add the emotional healing to that. The thing is it’s a multi-therapeutic approach.

We’re doing all of these things, and that’s the only way that these chronic conditions will get well, bottom line. The
cellular healing. We agree. The cellular detox – we’ve got to get the cell working. The multi-therapeutic approach is
really all about getting that cell working. I encourage you to watch that episode. Meredith, I don’t know if you
remember which one it was, but –

Meredith:
I do. Episode 117 was your multi-therapeutic approach.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. We’re going to have an article on it, as well, and I did a video about it because, Michael, I’m so passionate
about it. I think that’s my frustration in the doctoring word, even criticism of the alternative world, that it’s not so
simple as taking a bucket of this or that. It’s not so simple. You have to do all of these things that we’re talking about
in an integrative approach.
Michael, you know this. I preach this. My goal is to teach them, you all, this process. It took you years to get sick. It’s
not going to be months; it’s going to be years, ultimately, to where you can say, “I’m healthier today than I was even
before those symptoms started.” It is. It’s years.

Michael:
It’s so interesting, again, because my degree is in rehabilitation. We write programs. We don’t write prescriptions.
We create programs. One of the things – it might be even old information – it takes 18 months for nerve endings to
heal.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Michael:
Most people leave their program after six to nine months.
Dr. Pompa:
You know, it’s funny, man. We know that biblically, seven years it takes the soil to regenerate; seven years, the
number of regeneration, biblically. I always said when I looked at what I did, the lifestyle changes, the cellular detox,
the healing, I literally healed over a seven-year period. Even though I got portions of my life back in the first year, it
was a seven-year period. I’m very up-front with people. “It takes time, and you have to learn these processes. You
have to learn this multi-therapeutic approach.” Most people don’t want that, Michael. They want the pill. They want
the pill.
Michael:
They want the pill, and I can’t help that. That’s where the spiritual side – we’re even talking about – repair, restore,
and reconnect is the way we say it. We don’t even call it – I did a Sunday school lesson one time that said, “We
don’t need any more E-R words,” super, bigger, faster. We don’t need super, bigger, faster because they are E-R
words. They should be R-E words, which would be rejuvenate, repair, restore, reconnect. Ultimately, if you do not do
source spiritual work, you can’t sustain your recovery.
Dr. Pompa:
Wow! Michael, that’s a powerful statement. You said it. You even brought it to the cell. It’s that something around
the cell that we have not identified, science, right now, can’t identify, and it’s something spiritual, isn’t it?
Michael:
It is. I’d love to tell – I’m going to go ahead and say it. I promise, but this is – I’m 62 now. I don’t care what I say.
There’s actually, in cytochrome c, there’s this – it looks like a gold coin in Mario Brothers, spinning inside the
mitochondria. It’s sitting there spinning, and on one side is life, and on the other side is infinite source. God is on the
other side of cytochrome c. This is where the vibration piece comes. The vibration piece is so important because if
your original source is vibrating at an 8.3 Hertz or whatever it is, whatever the standing wave in the universe is,
everything in this world right this minute is an Orwellian inversion. It’s like every matrix, everything is off, and we
simply can’t apply our own spiritual technologies because we are in kind of a zombie response. We just are not. I
used a lot of crazy words there, but – a few years ago, I would say, “I can see dark. I can see light in people,” but
over the past two years, after – I’ve been seeing 18- to 25-year-olds that simply don’t have any thoughts.
Dr. Pompa:
I see those, too.
Michael:
Huh?
Dr. Pompa:
I see those, too.

Michael:
Yeah. The bottom line is I used to think the kind of people who said what I had just said were really crazy, but I’m
not sure anymore.
Dr. Pompa:
You know what? I’ve come a long way on that, myself, Michael.
Michael:
Yeah. The reason I do frequency work is to bring the vibration of the body up. It’s the quickest way I know how.
Dr. Pompa:
I don’t know if you saw the episode where I interviewed Bruce Lipton. You know who he is? Wrote Biology of Belief,
brilliant stem cell biologist. The conversation went in that direction. Our thoughts change the vibration of our cells. It
can drive inflammation. It can downregulate inflammation. We talk about neurotoxins, but we know that wounds in
our life – we’ve had so many past shows on this – create a different vibration effect in our memory, our membranes,
our DNA. My gosh. When we remove these emotional toxins, the physical, the chemical, change the vibration in the
cell, it’s multi-therapeutic approach.
Michael:
It’s a multi-therapeutic approach including spiritual source.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.
Michael:
My joke has been – I’m really not allowed to talk about all this because I’m still a registered Republican, and by
charter, we’re supposed to not be empathetic or empathic. It says it right in the charter. Nobody laughs anymore,
and I said it was a great joke before George. The bottom line is that the cell is still it. I got there at the same time you
did, and you just had really nice videos and teachings on it. I was pretty taken back by the idea that somebody could
verbalize it. Ultimately, in Lyme disease, there is a lot of different components. As you said, a thought actually has
negative covalence in the cell, or it has an energy. Let’s put it that way. I don’t know what the exact words are – that
does change the chemical reactions in the cell, so a thought can be stored in that way.
Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely. I’ve learned to interview people before I even take them on as a client to coach because I want to see
what their thoughts are. It’s very difficult to change for people. You can tell by their language whether they’re
helpable at that point or not. Maybe one day it will change; however, there’s a time when someone is helpable and
when they’re not. You can tell them by the words that they speak, ironically enough. All the greatest work that you
do can be useless with the wrong thoughts and the thought patterns. It’s a major, major interference. That’s for sure.
Michael, we’re blessed to have you on our side, no doubt.
Michael:
Thank you. I’m so glad.

Dr. Pompa:
As a cellular healing doctor, we just need more of us, Michael, and that’s my passion is creating more and more of
us with a like mindset and share information. We share information with the united goal to change the world and
make a difference. For me, it’s about really answering the prayers of a crying world. There’s so many people crying
out for answers. So much crap is out there, Michael. Our goal is to make a difference and bring the real deal, and
you’re bringing the real deal, Dr. Michael. We really appreciate that. We really appreciate you coming on the show
and sharing just a lot of great stuff that we have in common and we’ve done for years.
Michael:
Yeah. Thank you very much. It’s my pleasure to be here. I’m pretty sure that we’re going to keep talking about this
somewhere in some venue somewhere.
Dr. Pompa:
No doubt about it. We sure will. Yeah.
Michael:
Okay.
Dr. Pompa:
All right, Meredith.
Meredith:
That’s for sure. I thank you so much, Dr. Payne, for joining Cellular Healing TV. What a wealth of knowledge you
are. I still have lots of questions for you, so maybe we can you on again in a future show because there’s so much
alignment with what you and Dr. Pompa believe and this message. What you guys are teaching is so important to
bring to the world. Thank you both for the show today. So grateful for both of you and for all of you listening. Hope
you got a lot of value out of the show today. I know I sure did. Thanks so much, and we’ll see you next week. Have
a great weekend, everybody.