MPHO MATSIPA
to attend a lecture series, Architecture and
ON AFRICAN INTERCONNECTIVITY
© Jamal Nxedlana, Bubblegum Club
Although Dr. Mpho Matsipa is an Adjunct
Assistant Professor of Architecture at Columbia
GSAPP and a curator at Studio X Johannesburg,
she mostly sees herself as a researcher and
a thinker which she gets to explore at the
University of the Witwatersrand, South Africa.
She completed her degree at the University
of Cape Town which were very formative for
her current interests in terms of engaging
with the spatial legacies of Apartheid. She
worked as a practicing architect for a while
and has been shortlisted in two prestigious
national design competitions. She also curated
several exhibitions, including the South Africa
Pavilion at the 11th International Architecture
Exhibition, Venice Biennale (2008). A full grand
followed, and a 1-year MSc in Architecture at
Berkeley University of California turned into
a 10-year PHD project. The paper, titles The
1 2
On the 15th of December in 2017 I got invited
“I AM
INTERESTED
IN THROWING
OPEN A
SET OF
QUESTIONS ”
Order of Appearances, explored the entangled
geographies of urban informality, urban
redevelopment and the politics of race, gender
and aesthetics in Johannesburg’s inner city.1
Today this South African, Johannesburg-based
Architect, works day and night on a major
exhibition in München called African Mobilities.
The exhibition is a collaboration between
Architekturmuseum der TU München and the
University of the Witwatersrand. It is funded by
the German Federal Cultural Foundation and
is curated by Matsipa herself.2 It is intended to
present the exhibition in several other venues
on the African continent after its opening in
April 2018.
Representation, at the Netherlands Architecture
Institute in Rotterdam. As I looked up some
can access knowledge about the city is through
plans, what do we do with the things that don’t
make it on to the plan? Right? So, what are
the limits of architectural representation in its
more information on the lecturer I read “her
research interests include globalization and
current form? And how do you think about
representation that begins to come from other
urbanism in African cities: spatial justice, culture, realities that aren’t easily captured through this
race and representation”3, after which I found technology? I guess I think of myself mainly as
out the architect was South African. I got deeply a researcher and a thinker who does curatorial
excited as more talks such as these are starting work from time to time.”
to be given at the TU Delft, but never have I
heard it from an African female architect. This interview is a conversation and critical
The moment she walked in with her big afro, her look to the spatial manifestations of South
crystal-clear presentation and her undeniably Africa’s politics, African mobilities, beautification
critical and questioning lecture I knew I wanted processes and the architectural interexchange
to interview her for this course. She articulated between the West and the African continent.
my thoughts exactly as I wrote notes such as
“I am not interested in the statistics - Rework
“WHAT DO WE
colonial structures - Which histories do we
choose to tell - It is not a refugee camp - I am
bored with these representations - Africans
about Africa.”. Instead of giving answers to
everything she made sure to keep us alert and
DO WITH THE
perceptive during the lecture. In our personal
interview she mentioned: THINGS THAT
“I am much more interested in throwing open
a set of questions rather than closing a set
DON’T MAKE
of questions that have already been posed.
Questions that emerge from an established
IT ON TO THE
paradigm that I find problematic and limiting
to one’s imagination to what is possible on the PLAN? ”
[African] continent.”
It was mentioned we needed to interview
someone outside our expertise, from
outside the field of architecture in social and
spatial issues. Mpho not only speaks for an
underrepresented group of people, but she
looks at architecture in a refreshing way as she
grew up aware of social differences, which in
turn define her work.
“I think that what I do is more praxis than
practice. My work with Studio X Johannesburg
is really a way of thinking and producing a
public interface between academic and creative
work and a larger public. In addition, it was
productive for me in terms of getting a sense
of the city, and how people who are not in the
discipline of Architecture and Planning view,
engage and think about the city. It made me
consider different methods. If the only way you
It was during her PHD that Matsipa started to
consider questions of class. “South Africa had
really sensitized me to the relationship between
race and space, the way in which space was
recognized, and the way in which class and
race had collapsed into each other. In many
ways Apartheid spatial planning was a kind of
labelling for the majority Black population. The
major split was between those who live in the
city and those who live in Bantustans. Therefore,
a lot of our language is really just working
through this Black-White and city-countryside
dialectic.”
Her Berkeley education also opened her
scale of thinking from a national focus to a
larger international scale. Questions around
geopolitics, White supremacy, the global
structure of capitalism and the way in which it
is so foundational to the form that many cities
take. “But through this encounter with what is
essentially area studies or development studies,
there is a very particular way in which African
spaces and African experiences are framed.
Where Africans are often seen as ‘subjects
of development’. I felt that that was a kind
of flattening. Different from the Black-White
flattening, but of developed-underdeveloped
countries or cities.” Matsipa therefore has to
be creative in the ways she tries to portray
this message of space in combination with her
location.
“THERE IS A VERY
PARTICULAR
WAY IN WHICH
AFRICAN SPACES
AND AFRICAN
EXPERIENCES ARE
FRAMED”
3 4
The African Mobilities exhibition is an attempt
to reposition, or situate, architectural planning
in the conversation about migration and
mobility. Two terms, Matsipa emphasizes,
which are not necessarily the same thing.
“A lot of the discourse of the movement of
Africans is couched in a profound concern in
the number of Africans that are moving into
North America or Western Europe. This is a very
particular discourse, one that comes out of a
European concern - let’s say, about the scale of
migration that is happening. I think that there
are possibilities and opportunities for a more
fine-grained understanding of the ways in which
Africans move. Which is not just about crossing
the Atlantic or the Mediterranean, but the way
in which Africans move in the present, and have
moved historically within the continent.”
When I asked her whether she has looked at
spatial solutions for this movement, especially
as the ‘refugee problem’ is often mentioned in
Western Europe she answered: “My curatorial
strategy was more of an invitation than a
proclamation or solution. Firstly, Africa is vast,
there isn’t only one Africa, there are so many MAKOKO CANAL© Olalekan Jeyifous
different Africans on the continent. The idea
that there would be a solution and that the
refugee is the single figure for thinking through
the university, supports knowledge exchanges, “it is about expanding the field until such
those solutions, I think, is deeply problematic.”
and connects South African academics to spatial time that we have institutions that take a kind
She mentioned looking at networks that move
thinkers elsewhere in the world. She “is very of international and global African agenda
across the African continent, but also reach
interested in creating a platform where it really seriously in architecture.”
out globally, such as the marketplace. It should
has visibility and is advanced as a discourse”.
not just be about circulation of goods and
She explained the way to accomplish that for As her focus lies on the African continent
capital, but also of people, culture and ideas.
now, is to be a staffrider. A burst of laughter I was curious about her thoughts on the
This idea of the contact point focusses on the
enterprises that immigrants, migrants and
filled the air as she saw the confused look on
my face. She quickly looked up the definition to
communication between Western and African
disciplines. Matsipa explained there is no
refugees produce, one beyond the spatiality
help me out: ‘A person who illegally rides on the shortage of Western architects connecting
of the refugee camp. “For me mobility is
outside of a suburban train.’4 Somebody who with African architects. “There is a constant
something that happens not just through war,
but also something that happens through
displacement, and desire. That Africans are not
latches on to an existing infrastructure that is
moving in one direction, it might even be the
flow of visiting studios from Tu Delft, ETH,
Colombia, from Science Po etc. So, you know
wrong destination, but rides the train as far as we are receptacle for all kinds of proclaimed, or
just moved by violence, but also by their own
desire for modernity, for different subjectivity,
it will get them. Rendering African perspectives
visible is not a unique intervention. “There are
presumed, expertise on the continent. I think
that it is important for Africans to define the
for a different kind of positioning in the world
many academics and intellectuals who are terms of reference for questions on African
and for themselves. Tapping into those kinds of
doing this work in their different disciplines urban systems, questions of the future, and
aspirations and rendering them visible I think is
an important project.”
and even in architecture. You have an initiative
like the African Architectural Awards that are
questions on history, on their own terms. I
also think that the terms of engagement need
really about celebrating African creativity to change. It would be disingenuous not to
The idea of mobility, circulation and
interconnectivity is a central theme in Matsipa’s
and innovation and all that stuff, which really
is about trying to generate an energy and
acknowledge the asymmetries between Western
and African architects, in terms of the kind
career. She often hosts talks, has many
discourse and exchanges amongst architects of resources that are available. One doesn’t
opportunities to engage with students through
on the African continent.” She later adds that hear of large teams of South African design
students going to TU Delft to explore problems
of poverty in the Netherlands and propose
solutions for how Dutch people should live
right? It is very much a one-way thing, where
Africans are presumed to be on the receiving
end of the kind of epistemological charity.
In addition, I think that there is a lot of very
complex nuanced, refined thinking that Africans
have to do in order to negotiate the obstacles
in their environment.”
I followed up asking whether she thinks the
West sees the potential Africa has when it
comes to architecture? If it is more so that the
West sees Africa as a ‘charity-case’, after which
she quickly replied: “No, I think that the kind
of ‘humanitarian aid Architecture’ is only one
genre of architecture that one finds on the
continent. It is probably one that gets a lot of
publicity, but there are other kinds of global
practices that build multi story buildings, huge
masterplans on the African continent. If we
think about the West’s role in Africa historically
there has been no shortage of Europeans and
Americans finding phenomenal opportunities
for themselves and others in the continent. I
think that for me a more pertinent question
would be: ‘Do African architects have the
same kind of opportunities to build large
scale projects in Europe, in the same way that
European architects get to build large scale
projects in Africa?’ Matsipa notes that the idea
of architects experimenting on the African
continent is not new. Think about le Corbusier
and his engagement in North Africa, refining
their thesis about the future on the continent.
“I THINK
SEGREGATION
HAPPENS ON
MULTIPLE
SCALES”
5 6
My thoughts then started to drift to a different,
but related topic. This idea of exploration and
experimentation of course also manifested itself
during colonial times. When the Dutch, and later
the British, invaded South Africa they created
this multi-layered, complex structure that still
exists in this post-Apartheid country. Matsipa:
“I think segregation happens on multiple scales.
Apartheid was a very brief period in the history
of South Africa, (1948 - 1994) and was preceded
by an earlier period of segregation, during
the British imperialist segregation period. It is
not that there was no segregation and then
there was segregation. The nationalist party
basically consolidated and refined instruments
of segregation which the British had already
produced before them and established a very
racialized imagination of the city. While at the
same time erasing a kind of history of African
settlements that might have occurred and that
did occur before them.” Which consequences
did the end of Apartheid have on the South
African City? “I think that Johannesburg [more
than many other South African cities] has
desegregated quite radically in the last 23
years. One sees instant results of desegregation
in many different forms. Johannesburg is a
fascinating city, because it also still has this
kaleidoscopic quality where you can move
from one environment to a radically different
environment within a very short space and time.
So, I think that historically movement across the
city as a racialized body and as a gender body
was always fought with all these blockages and
the city is still very difficult to navigate. Maybe
not only because of race, but also because of
La ville radieuse, 1924, Le Corbusier
class. The way one encounters the city from the
perspective of a car, the kind of mobility and
freedom of movement, is very different from
when you drive a car to when you don’t. For me
this is one of the biggest enduring differences
of what is essentially a modernist city.”
The forms of desegregation take place on a
small level from removing signs, to bigger ones
such as creating multi-race neighborhoods
again. However, one process in particular
stands out to me: beautification of South
African cities. There have been many historical
examples of state governments displacing
people from their homes to create grand
boulevards (Haumanisation in Paris), to be able
to recreate a new state. In a way the same thing
was happening in South Africa (especially for
the 2010 World Cup), where many initiatives
were taken to ‘hide its history’. Which role do
art and architecture play in this? Something I
was eager to ask Matsipa. “The beautification
is really something that is tied into a state
project of projecting itself in a certain kind of
power. I think that architects and, to a certain
degree, artists have historically been pulled
into this relationship with the state to produce
this image of beauty and grandeur and power.
Along with a new kind of citizenry. You are
producing the environment, and through it are
introducing new kinds of urban culture and
how people should inhabit the space. Many
people have thought through this question
of modernity in the city, and how it produces
new kinds of subjectivities. I think that city
managers in Johannesburg at the end of the
20th century are really tapping into this old
European tradition of presenting the city as
prosperous, as an ideal investment location, by
making the city more attractive to investors.
Also, with the hope that by beautifying the city,
they would attract a new kind of citizen, or that
the citizens who inhabited it originally would
be transformed into a different species. That
was responsive to the ways in which culture
was being reintroduced to the city.” She then
pointed out that the beautification process is
the way in which art and architecture take part
of a larger political project. “Art cannot claim
this completely autonomous status outside of
politics, outside of capitalism, but is actually
implicated in those networks of power. The idea
of the good life, the idea of the good city is
“ART CANNOT
CLAIM THIS
COMPLETELY
AUTONOMOUS
STATUS
OUTSIDE OF
POLITICS“
also an idea that is rooted in Europe, a kind of
European special imaginary. For the city to be
beautiful, in order for the city to be modern, it
has to tap into this kind of European tradition of
modernization and beautification. If the city is
European and if it conforms to European forms
of ‘trendiness’ and ‘beauty’, what is to be done
with the people who inhabit the city who are
not of that phase? The aesthetics of the city is
not really divorced from kinds of ideologies of
race and culture, and also ideologies of a certain
kind of cultural supremacy.”
Matsipa ends with her fascination for the
South African artist Mary Sibande. “Art was
brought in to hide the aspects of the city
that people found embarrassing or ugly or
that didn’t conform to a set of standards that
were determined elsewhere. There is a kind of
scaffolding or façade work that happens in that
context, but at the same time Mary Sibande’s
work is very important and critical. Because it
surfaces histories that many different iterations
of colonial government have tried to erase
from the city. It has tried to erase black people
from the city, it has tried to erase black women
from the city, it has tried to erase working class
people from the city. Her appearance on the
city skyline was a kind of complicated, double
moment. Where on the one hand it is part of
this beautification strategy, but on the other
hand it’s surfacing all of these subjugated
histories and subjugated figures on the city
skyline for the world to see.”
 Much like she did for Mary Sibande’s work,
Mpho Matsipa tries to give voice to the often
unheard social and political discourses that
relate to architecture and planning in (South)
Africa. She tries to unravel the many layers
these topics have and exposes the more
intricate questions to the world. She left me
inspired to think about new ways to answer
them, considering architecture will never be the
only answer. I hope you had the same energy
after having read this interview.
ARDP130 DESIGN AS POLITICS 2017 - 2018
Long Live the Dead Queen, Johannesburg, Mary Sibande
“IT SURFACES
HISTORIES”
SOURCES
1. https://www.arch.columbia.edu/faculty/179-
mpho-matsipa
2. http://www.architekturmuseum.de/en/
exhibitions/preview/2018/african-mobilities/
3. https://www.evensi.nl/architecture-and-
representation-lecture-by-mpho-matsipa-
het/229977767
4. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/
english/staffrider
ROBYNE SOMÉ