GEOGRAPHIC vs GEOCENTRIC LATITUDE – Note 1

A Note on Geocentric Latitude Correction

(courtesy of KP E-zine May 2008 issue, free download @ http://kpastrologer.com)

Geocentric Longitudes

1. Geocentric system was given by Ptolemy and the Geocentric longitudes of the
planetary positions as seen from the center of Earth have been used in the ephemeris. The
Topocentric longitudes are the positions as seen by an observer at any specified point of
the Earth’s surface, and they slightly differ from the Geocentric positions.

2. The charts generally give the Geocentric longitudes of the planets and the cuspal
positions by the Geographic latitudes of birth place, unless the Geocentric latitude option
or correction is specifically mentioned. It is to note that ‘Geocentric’ specified in the
charts of the AstroDatabank, Astrodienst, websites, books etc. means Geocentric for
planetary positions only and cuspal positions are as per Geographic latitude of birth
place. The astrological SWs, except Shri Raichur’s, generally give the same results unless
the default setting is changed to Geocentric latitude option or Geocentric correction. This
is the commonly used system in the calculation and presentation of charts. So it is
necessary to specifically mention Geocentric latitude option or correction, if it is used.

Geocentric Latitudes

3. The Geocentric latitude is the angle between the equatorial plane and a line from the
center of Earth. The Geographic or geodedic latitude is the angle between the equatorial
plane and a line from the point of interest on the surface of Earth. The latitude of a place
shown in the atlas is the Geographic latitude. It is calculated from the surface of the earth
at the locality where the individual is born. The Geocentric latitude of place of birth on
the surface of Earth is determined from the point of interest to the center of Earth, as if
the birth took place there.

4. It has been advocated for the use of geocentric latitudes in calculating the house cusps
of horoscope to ensure better accuracy and precision, in the Astrology and Athrista by N.
Krishna Murthy (1978 May), M.G.G. Nayar (1980), K. Balachandran, Universal Tables
of Houses (1985) by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur, end part of Astrosecrets & KP,
Part II by K. Subramaniam (Edt), How to Cast and Read Your Horoscope? by K.
Hariharan, beginning part of Astrology for Beginners, Vol 5, by K. Subramaniam.
Because the earth is not a perfect sphere but an oblate spheroid, bulged at equator and
slightly flat along the two poles. As the house figures furnished in the UTOH (and all
Tables of Houses generally) are for Geocentric latitudes only, it is essential to convert the
Geographical latitude to Geocentric one in using the tables of houses. The conversion
formulas and the table of minutes for Geocentric correction are provided. (Such table is
available in the KP for Beginners-Part 2)

5. The Geocentric latitude equivalent to Geographic one can be found by the formula:
tan A = tan B x 0.993 30546
where A & B are the Geographic and Geocentric latitudes.
(Log tan A = Log tan B + 9.9970828)

6. Shri Raichur’s SW uses the Geocentric latitude. It converts the Geographic latitude
from the atlas to the Geocentric one and gives the cuspal positions for the Geocentric
longitude of birth place. Now it is understandable why is the difference in the cuspal
positions given by Shri Raichur’s SW for the Geocentric latitude and other KP SWs for
the Geographic latitude of birth place as per default setting. Other SWs will also use the
Geocentric latitude by choosing the Geocentric option or Geocentric Correction option.

7. Nowadays there is a tendency of preferring Geocentric latitude of a place of birth

other than Geographic latitude. So the Geocentric latitude option or Geocentric correction
is incorporated in many SWs like KPAstro 3.0, Astraura, Jyotishya Deepika,
Astracadabra, Solar Fire etc.

Which One, Geographic or Geocentric is Preferable

8. The preference for Geocentric latitude is as follows:

(a) The preference by some KP followers as mentioned in the point 4;

(b) Charles A Jayne preferred the Geocentric latitude which is 11’less (for 40N05) so
that he had used 39N54 in Locality Astrology;
(c) A table of minutes for Geocentric correction is provided in the AFA Tables of
Houses, Placidus System, American Federation of Astrologers;
(d) Making correct prediction using the Shri Raichur’s SW which applies the
Geocentric latitude all the time.

9. The preference for Geographic latitude is as given under:

(a) Robert Hand had shown in Geocentric Latitude: Some Second Thoughts (Essays on
Astrology) that the preference for geocentric latitude was evidently due to an
unfortunate accident in terminology and the use of geographic latitude gave more
accurate results;
(b) Geoffrey Dean, in Recent Advances in Natal Astrology, found the Topocentric
system reasonably effective when he studied it;
(c) Preference for Geocentric in the Western literature is found mainly for planetary
positions, for instance Llewellyn George is for Geocentric for the planetary positions,
not for the Geocentric latitude as mentioned in the Astrosecrets & KP, Part II;
(d) The way of measuring the Geographic latitude seems in line what is required for the
calculation of house cusps and the Geocentric latitude may not fulfill this condition;
(e) If one is tracking objects that are orbiting the Earth in space, then one will probably
prefer to use the geocentric coordinate system rather than the geographical one but
not for tracking a location of birth on the surface of Earth;
(f) One may also argue that since Earth is not a perfect sphere, the Geographic latitude is
supposed to represent the place of birth more accurately compared to a Geocentric
representation;
(g) Commonly applied from Guruji Sri K.S. Krishnamurti’s time till now, as correctly
mentioned by Kousalya Sattainathan that Guruji used Geographic latitude only, in
KP Astrology & Prime Ministers.cation & KP’s Nirayana Horary Tables for 2003, for
Delhi, Kolkata & Mumbai.

Conclusion

10. The maximum difference between Geocentric and Geographic latitudes is only about
11 minutes, not so much like in the case of Ayanamsa that it may not change the sub-lords
and results of KP analysis, except in the border line case. I use and prefer the Geographic
latitude as it is commonly used and well tested but I keep my mind open to experiment
with the application of Geocentric latitude correction. By choosing the Geocentric option
or Geocentric Correction option, the SW will give the results for the Geocentric latitude
of birth place. It is necessary to mention Geocentric latitude, if it is used to avoid
confusion, otherwise it is understood that Geographic latitude is used.

GEOGRAPHIC vs GEOCENTRIC LATITUDE – Note 2

KP for Beginners- Part 2

(courtesy of KP E-zine May 2008 issue or KP Navrtnamala part-2, free download @
http://kpastrologer.com)

Geocentric Correction

12. In the calculation of cuspal positions, these days there is a tendency of preferring
Geocentric latitude of a place of birth other than Geographic latitude assuming for better
accuracy. "Geocentric Correction" is supported by many SWs like KPAstro 3.0, Astraura,
Jyotishya Deepika, Solar Fire. It is to note that the ephemeris gives the Geocentric
positions of the planets (i.e. the positions are as seen form the center of the earth), and the
charts with the common indication of Geocentric are generally Geocentric for planetary
positions only but Geographic for cuspal positions. It is supposed to be the same with the
example charts in the KP Readers as it is said that Guruji Sri K.S. Krishnamurti used
Geographic latitude only. So it is better to mention "Geocentric Correction", if it is used,
to make it clear in comparing with the commonly used Geographic cuspal positions.

13. In using the "Geocentric Correction", the Geographic latitude of birth place given by
the atlas is to be converted into the Geocentric latitude by subtracting the minute for
correction given in the Table 14. The minute for correction increases up to around 11
minutes till 45 latitude and then declines. As 1 min roughly covers 1.8 km, this maximum
11 min would cover about 20 km. This difference is not much with compared to the
differences in Ayanamsa values to change the sub-lords except in the border line cases.
However, the better accuracy is preferable like taking the correct suburb of birth in the
case of big cities like Kolkata, Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai. A short article will be
presented on different views on which one, Geographic or Geocentric latitude, is more
accurate.

Table 14: Geocentric Correction to Latitudes

(Subtract from Geographic Latitudes)
Geographic Correction Geographic
Latitude in in Latitude in
Degree Minute Degree
0 0.0 90
1 0.4 89
2 0.8 88
3 1.2 87
4 1.6 86
5 2.0 85
6 2.4 84
7 2.8 83
8 3.2 82
9 3.6 81
10 3.9 80
11 4.3 79
12 4.7 78
13 5.0 77
14 5.4 76
15 5.8 75
16 6.1 74
17 6.4 73
18 6.8 72
19 7.1 71
20 7.4 70
21 7.7 69
22 8.0 68
23 8.3 67
24 8.6 66
25 8.8 65
26 9.1 64
27 9.3 63
28 9.6 62
29 9.8 61
30 10.0 60
31 10.2 59
32 10.4 58
33 10.6 57
34 10.7 56
35 10.8 55
 36 11.0 54
37 11.1 53
38 11.2 52
39 11.3 51
40 11.4 50
41 11.4 49
42 11.5 48
43 11.5 47
44 11.6 46
45 11.6 45

14. In the Example Chart 2, Geographic latitude 23N is converted into Geocentric
latitude 22N52 by subtracting 8min for 23deg as given in Table 25.

Note: By entering the converted Geocentric latitude to a SW not supporting this option,
the results using the Geocentric latitude can be obtained.

GEOGRAPHIC vs GEOCENTRIC LATITUDE – Note 3

Geographic or Geocentric Latitude for KP Horary Analysis?

(courtesy of KP E-zine Nov. 2009 issue, free download @ http://kpastrologer.com)

Question & Answer Section

QUESTION-2

Geographic or Geocentric Latitude for KP Horary Analysis?

For doing KP horary analysis, which Lat do you suggest:

1) Geographic Lat
2) True Geocentric Lat
3) Apparent Geocentric Lat

I am finding that using Geocentric Lat, majority of the times the main house CSL is
missed by one planet up or down from those that appear in RP. For example if there is
Mer in RP then let say the main house CSL is 10th house then the 10th house CSL is
either Sat or Ket.

ANSWER-2

The Geographic latitude may be preferable for doing KP horary analysis because of the
following reasons.

1) KP Horary is Guruji KSK's brain child born on Geographic.

 2) KP Horary Ascendant is according to the 249 sub table and other cusps are
calculated on the basis of that Asc. position.
3) Not yet sufficient research evidence that Geocentric can give better accuracy, as
discussed in the Geographic or Geocentric article.
4) Not yet widely used as Geocentric option is not yet supported in the mostly used
Western Astrodienst (www.astro.com) and Vedic J Hora.

GEOGRAPHIC vs GEOCENTRIC LATITUDE – Note 4

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/1456?threaded=1
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/messages/1578
http://www.4shared.com/office/r9uN59Hv/Astro-secrets__KP_Part3.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/26323?threaded=1