RE: ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW

OF

MICHAEL WARD

Taken at the Area 1 Chicago Police Department in Chicago, Illinois on February 10, 2013

PRESENT: Detective Halloran

Detective Murray

Transcribed by: Marisa Claudio

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Disk 1 00:21:42

File 1

Segment (00:21:42 to 00:22:15)

Woman: Do you have a key?

Ward: Yeah.

Officer: (Inaudible).

Ward: I know (inaudible) that’s the one.

Woman: You can put your shoes back on. You can walk, right. I’ll be back.

Ward: You said back?

Woman: I’ll be back. You all right?

Ward: Yes.

ENDS (00:22:15)

Disk 1

File 1

Segment (00:32:29 to 01:16:52)

Halloran: Sit up young man.

Halloran: Do me a favor, move over – move over that way. You got to go to

the bathroom or anything?

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: You do? Okay, give me one minute; we’ll go to the bathroom.

Let me uh – see if it’s open.

Halloran: Yep.

Halloran: Okay, go ahead. (Inaudible).

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Michael Ward leaves the room at 00:33:24 00:33:24

Michael Ward returns to the room at 00:34:37

Halloran: Okay, have a seat.

Halloran: What’s your name, young man?

Ward: I’m Michael Ward.

Halloran: Michael? I’m Detective Halloran and that’s Detective Murray,

okay. We want to talk to you about a shooting that happened about uh – oh back

on the 29th of January. Before we ask you any questions I wanna do this. I

wanna tell you you have a right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used

against you in court, do you understand that?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Yes, sir, okay. You have a right to an attorney. If you can’t

afford an attorney the court will give you one for free, do you understand that?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Yes, sir. Okay, you have a right to have an attorney with you

during any questioning, do you understand that?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, now understanding these things do you want to answer some

questions we have for you concerning the shooting we’re investigating?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so we’re investigating the shooting that happened back on

the 29th of January over at 44th and Oakenwald, okay?

Ward: What day was that?

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Halloran: The 29th of January? 00:35:27

Murray: It was a Tuesday.

Halloran: Tuesday – Tuesday afternoon, okay?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: So it happens to be the shooting that’s been all over the news – that

young girl that got shot in the park.

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: All right.

Ward: Hadiya

Halloran: Right, do you know Hadiya?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: How do you know her?

Ward: She use to go to Woodsen when I went to Price and we went to the

dances over there.

Halloran: Uh-huh, so you know her from schools.

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Okay, well it’s her shooting that we’re investigating. During our

investigation your name came up. You’re somebody we wanted to talk to, okay.

So goin’ back to that day if you remember the 29th of January it was raining

about two o’clock in the afternoon. Do you know where you were at?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Where were you at?

00:36:23

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Ward: I was leavin’ my house. I got permission from my mother to go

get – pick up my little brother from 63rd and Hyde Park and I drove and get him

and when I left she called me back and said my other little brother (inaudible)

doesn’t have to be left from school ‘cause he has after school so I’mma pick him

till three forty-five. Which then I had free time, so I drove to 42nd and Indiana.

Halloran: Okay, let me back you up a minute now. You said you had

permission. Does that mean you had permission to use – you just mentioned your

mother – your mother’s car?

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: What kind of car is it?

Ward: A white Nissan.

Halloran: A White Nissan? Do you drive that car often?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Do you drive it periodically?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Well see I asked you ‘cause I have uh – where you were stopped

by the police drivin’ that car a couple of days before the shooting. Do you

remember that incident?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so where you alone during that incident?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so you do drive it on occasion.

Ward: Yes, as long --

5
Halloran: Oh. 00:37:15

Ward: -- as she gives me the permission.

Halloran: When she gives you permission. So on this day the 29th, Tuesday

when it was raining, she gave permission to have her car?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Was she at home or was she at work?

Ward: No, she was at home.

Halloran: She was at home. At what time do you take her car?

Ward: At – most of the time I get her car at nine o’clock when uhm –

Mondays and Sundays we usually be my day for gettin’ out her car, but she didn’t

let me use her car all the time because she complains about havin’ gas.

Halloran: Yeah.

Ward: So I got – when she gave me the car told me to go pick up my little

brothers.

Halloran: So when did she give you the car on that day Tuesday.

Ward: She – we switched my day from Sunday to Tuesday ‘cause she

does not have to go to work on Tuesday. So I got the car Tuesday.

Halloran: So her day off is Tuesday from work so you get to use the car on

Tuesday?

Ward: Not the whole day. Just to pick my little brothers up.

Halloran: Okay, so on Tuesday the 29th when does she give you the car and

tell you its okay to take the car.

Ward: To pick my little brothers up.

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Halloran: Yeah, but I don’t know what time you pick your brothers up. 00:38:12

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: What time?

Ward: My little brother got out early so he get out at two fifteen --

Halloran: Hmm-hmm.

Ward: -- and my other little brother had to go after school and he gets out

a three forty-five.

Halloran: So the one little guy he gets out. He gotta get – go to after school

so he didn’t get out ‘till three forty-five.

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: Okay, you’re other little brother he gets out at two fifteen.

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: Okay, when did you take the car? When did you leave the house

with your mom’s car?

Ward: I left the house like two o’ five.

Halloran: About two o’ five and that’s your mom’s white Nissan?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Is that – in the back window does it have printing across the

windshield of the uh – back window like – what’s on there uh – somethin’ motors

or western motors or somethin’? What is that?

Ward: It says Western Ave.

Halloran: Western Ave? Is that where she bought the car?

Ward: Hmm – I think so.

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Halloran: Okay, so there’s that decal across the back window. 00:38:59

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: All right, so you take the car about two o’ five in the afternoon.

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: Okay, you go right from your house.

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: Where’s your house at?

Ward: 362 E 59th street.

Halloran: 362 E 59th street and where do you go with that car right when you

leave the house?

Ward: I leave I turn and do a U back to the King Drive --

Halloran: Hmm-hmm.

Ward: -- but I stay on the side street. I go up 63rd and I turn – I go up

towards 63rd and I turn on 60th ‘cause you can’t turn on 63rd goin’ left.

Halloran: Okay so you --

Ward: So I take 60th.

Halloran: -- you – you make a U turn and get on King drive and go down

towards 60th and you get on 60th street and you’re going where?

Ward: I’m goin’ towards Ellis.

Halloran: Goin’ towards Ellis but where are you going? Where do you

wanna go?

Ward: I’m goin’ to pick my little brother.

Halloran: And what school is that?

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Ward: Hyde Park. 00:39:47

Halloran: Hyde Park Academy and what’s your little brother’s name?

Ward: Armand.

Halloran: Armand?

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: What’s his last name?

Ward: Bridgeman.

Halloran: Bridgeman?

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: Okay, so are you alone when you’re doin’ this?

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: You’re in the car by yourself. You’re in your mom’s car, you

make a U turn. You’re goin’ down King and you get down to about 60th. You

get off of King, you’re on the side streets for whatever reason – construction or

somethin’ did you say?

Ward: No, I got – you can’t turn.

Halloran: You can’t turn, okay, and where do you go then?

Ward: I take 60th straight to Ellis, turn her up – I make a – a right on Ellis

and --

Halloran: Right.

Ward: -- go up Ellis and take 63rd to his school.

Halloran: And you go right to his school.

Ward: Yes.

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Halloran: And now it’s just you? 00:40:22

Ward: No – yeah, it’s just me by myself when I pick --

Halloran: You by yourself in your mom’s Nissan and you pick your brother

up?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, what time you pick him up?

Ward: I picked him up at – he got out the school at like two eighteen –

two twenty.

Halloran: Two eighteen – two twenty, how do you know it was two eighteen

or two twenty?

Ward: Because I was lookin’ at the time when I had to pick him up.

Halloran: Okay, so he come out of school at two eighteen – two twenty.

You throw him in the car.

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, you take any of his friends with him?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Who do you pick up also?

Ward: Jamarie.

Halloran: Jamarie who?

Ward: Jamarie Stanford

Halloran: You picked up Jamarie Stanford? That’s your little brother’s

friend?

Ward: No this is – he been around us a long time.

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Halloran: Jamarie Stanford had, sure. So he’s your friend as well? 00:40:58

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: So you pick up Jamarie Stanford and your little brother Armand.

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: -- at Armands school?

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: Does Stanford go to the same school?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Does he go to school?

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: Didn’t he have a whole bunch of problems with attackin’

Principles and stuff like that? Is he in that school?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so you picked them two up - anybody else?

Ward: That’s it.

Halloran: That’s it and that’s at two eighteen or two twenty.

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: Where do you go then?

Ward: We go down 63rd to 57th. Take 57th to cottage and take Cottage

to 47th and turn down and go to Indiana.

Halloran: So now you’re at 47th and Indiana together?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: And where are you goin’?

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Ward: We make a right and go straight down on 42nd and Indiana. 00:41:38

Halloran: You go to 42nd and Indiana. Where are goin’?

Ward: We’re goin’ to my friend’s house Alvin.

Halloran v: Who?

Ward: Alvin.

Halloran: Alvin?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Alvin – what’s his last name?

Ward: Thompson.

Halloran: Do you make it to Alvin Thompson’s house?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so now it’s you Jamarie and Armand still?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: And you go to Alvin Thompson’s house.

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, what time you get there?

Ward: I got there at like two forty --

Halloran: Two forty?

Ward: -- five.

Halloran: Okay, do you pick anybody else up in the – in this ride that you

just described for us?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so just you three and you make it to Alvin’s house.

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Ward: Yes, sir. 00:42:20

Halloran: What do you then?

Ward: We stayed over there till it was time to pick my little brother up.

Halloran: Okay, do you park the car?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, do you go into Alvin’s house?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Do you give anybody else permission to have your car?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Okay, you and your brother Armand and Jamarie Stanford go in

the house?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: And you’re meetin’ with Alvin?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: And you stay there until when?

Ward: We stay there till like three – probably like three thirty-five, three

thirty-six.

Halloran: Three thirty-five, three thirty- six.

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, and then what?

Ward: We drive up King drive to 60th (inaudible).

Halloran: Who’s we?

Ward: Up to 60th. Me, my little brother and Jamarie --

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Halloran: Okay. 00:42:56

Ward: -- ‘cause that’s what came over there with me.

Halloran: Right, so three again get back in the car and you’re goin’ where

now?

Ward: We’re goin’ up King Drive.

Halloran: To go where?

Ward: To pick my little brother.

Halloran: At what school?

Ward: Woodlawn.

Halloran: Woodlawn School?

Ward: (Inaudible), yes, University of Woodlawn.

Halloran: So now you pick up your other little brother?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, just you three? You pick up anybody else?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Okay, so then you make it over to Woodlawn School and you pick

up – what’s your little brother’s name?

Ward: Ivy.

Halloran: Ivy, okay. How old is he?

Ward: He’s sixteen.

Halloran: Okay, so you pick up Ivy and any of his friends?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Okay, now you got both of your brothers and Jamarie

14
Stanford and you in the car. Do you go anywhere else? 00:43:28

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Where do you go?

Ward: We took my – we – we went to the house.

Halloran: You’re house?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Do you go directly from that second school to your house?

Ward: Yes, sir ‘cause I can turn on King Drive and I – when I leave his

school it’s comin’ down University and I make a left and go straight down King –

I mean 63rd and then make a right – I can make a right on King Drive –

Halloran: (Inaudible).

Ward: -- then back to 59th.

Halloran: All right, so you guys go like that to your house though. Once you

get your other little brother it’s you, your two brothers and Jamarie and you go

directly to your house?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: Okay, what do you do then?

Ward: We got out the car.

Halloran: You parked the car in front of the house?

Ward: Yes, sir.

Halloran: All four of you go in the house?

Ward: Yes, sir, yeah.

Halloran: Yeah, and what do you do next?

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 00:44:00
Ward: I gave my mother back her keys.

Halloran: Okay.

Ward: Kind of kept them in my pocket for a minute but then she got to askin’

about them - let me get the keys and I was like (inaudible).

Halloran: She got to askin’ about the keys and you gave them back to her.

All right, anything else I should – in any of these rides that you took like to – to

get your brother and Jamarie, did you have any conflict or anything with

anybody?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Uhm – when you got Jamarie and your brother and you’re goin’

over to Alvin’s house, did you have any conflict with anybody?

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: Okay and then you get uh – Jamarie and you little brother and you

go pick up your other little brother. Any conflicts? Any – any – nothin’ in traffic,

nothing? Okay, let me ask you somethin’, who do you run with?

Ward: Who I run with?

Halloran: Yeah, I mean now – what – everybody is part of somethin’. Are

you 4- 6 terror are fuckin’ Suwu? Are you Oakwood boy? Who do you run with?

Ward: No, sir. When I come outside I be everywhere --

Halloran: Hmm-hmm.

Ward: -- and I’m fro – originally from Lake Park.

Halloran: You’re from Lake Park. Where at on Lake Park?

00:45:04

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Ward: Well I’m born at 3983 S. Lake Park.

Halloran: You were born at 3983 Lake Park?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: What’d you say? (Inaudible).

Ward: No, I said apartment 602.

Halloran: Oh, apartment 602. So you’re originally from 39 Lake Park.

Ward: Yes.

Halloran: Okay, uh – are you tellin’ me that you don’t run with anybody, or

you run with everybody?

Ward: No, I wasn’t – I was affiliated as a gangster Disciple ‘cause they put it in

my – they put in my rap sheet and we got locked up – ‘cause I got locked up for a

gun case and they asked me what you is and I told them nothin’ and they still put

GD in my background.

Halloran: Okay, aside from what they put in your background, I’m askin’

you who are you affiliated with?

Ward: I don’t gangbang.

Halloran: No, okay. How about Jamarie Stanford – do you know who he runs

with? Who’s he affiliated with?

Ward: Nobody, he live on 40th and Lane.

Halloran: Okay, are you familiar with the guys that call themselves Suwu?

Ward: Yes, I know about them?

Halloran: What do you know about ‘em?

Ward: They 39th and Lake Park. They’re where I’m from

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Halloran: There where you’re from. 00:45:59

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Okay, uh – you know Kenneth Williams?

Ward: Kenneth, yes.

Halloran: Okay, is he Suwu?

Ward: No, not really. No.

Halloran: No, not really? What would he really be?

Ward: Just Kenny.

Halloran: Huh?

Ward: Just Kenny.

Halloran: He’s just Kenny, okay. Is there a conflict between the Suwu crew

and another crew?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: What’s the conflict?

Ward: They into it with Welchworld.

Halloran: With Welchworld?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Okay, where’s Welchworld from?

Ward: Across Cottage.

Halloran: Across Cottage. How about 4- 6 Terror.

Ward: 4-6.

Halloran: 4-6.

Ward: 4-6 Terror just killed one of the boys off Lake Park.

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Halloran: They killed one of the boys off Lake Park? Who they kill? 00:46:40

Ward: They killed Dewan Jackson.

Halloran: When did that happen?

Ward: This happened – when was this Oc – no, it’s – eh – he – it happened in

September.

Halloran: (inaudible).

Ward: Around September 26th I think.

Halloran: Of last year, right? Okay, uhm – 4-6 Terror killed one the Suwu

guys. What’s his name?

Ward: Dewan Jackson.

Halloran: Dewan Jackson, that was in September. How about Kenny

Williams, did he get shot?

Ward: Yeah, Kenny he got shot --

Halloran: When did he get shot?

Ward: He shot around the time he – before like right after he went on the prom.

He was visiting that girl Marquita in the back of the court way and they sho – and

they shoot Kinney and they picked me up. They put me in a Detective – car and

asked me.

Halloran: Who – who shot Kenny.

Ward: Little Deandre Jackson from 4-6.

Halloran: 4-6 Terror?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Deandre Jackson shot Kenny.

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 00:47:29
Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: And Kenny got shot and you said somethin’ about by the court

way. Is that over on Lake Park.

Ward: Yeah, it’s off Ellis.

Halloran: Off Ellis. Right around 40th and something?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: All right, so Kenny got shot by 4-6. The 4-6 where are they from?

Ward: 46 and Ellis.

Halloran: 4-6 and Ellis? How about that park where the girl that got shot?

Who – who operates out of that park? Who runs that Park?

Ward: What Park?

Halloran: Well the – the – the play lot, the park where that shooting

happened? Near Kennecott.

Ward: In the back of Kennecott?

Halloran: Well you know not Kennecott. You know uh – it’s been all over

the news, the little play lot there on Oakenwald where the girl got shot.

Ward: That’s the back of Kennecott.

Halloran: Oh, you call that the back of Kennecott?

Ward: No, it’s like it’s a playground. It’s Kennecott park and then it’s a

playground right around (inaudible)

Halloran: Right, there’s Kennecott Park and then there’s a playground, right.

Ward: Yeah, it’s like they parkin’ lot, the playground – that big field next

to - because I use to got to Kennecott.

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Halloran: You use to go to Kennecott. All right, who’s over there? What 00:48:26

crew is over there in that area? Is that 4-6 Terror?

Ward: Not really.

Halloran: Not --

Ward: It – it is but it’s really not though.

Halloran: It is but it’s really not – what does that mean?

Ward: Like only time around 44 or 45th and shot up, Young Money probably

shot that over there.

Halloran: You’re sayin’ Young money probably shot up the shooting we’re

talking about?

Ward: No, I’m sayin’ though they be blowin’ at that spot.

Halloran: Young Money be shootin’ over at that spot, but specifically they’re

shooting at this girl. Do you know who shot her?

Ward: No.

Halloran: Okay, all right so again to my question. That playground is that 4-

6 Terror? You said it is but it isn’t.

Ward: ‘Cause they – it’s like that they – that’s where they all be at.

Halloran: That’s where they all be. That’s where they hang out. Did you

ever see any of their you tube videos where they’re video tappin themselves in

that little play lot – that playground?.

Ward: No.

Halloran: No/

Ward: No.

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 00:49:35
Halloran: No?

Ward: Yep, yep, as a matter of fact yep. (Inaudible).

Halloran: So you have --

Ward: I seent a video like that.

Halloran: Yeah, so there’s YouTube video and you seen it of them at that

play lot? All right, so I got what you’re tellin’ me about your mom giving you

permission to get the car about two – two o’ five and you go and you pick up your

brother and his friend and your friend Jamarie and you guys go over by Alvin’s

and you give us the route you took and everything and then you go pick up your

other brother and then you go home. The problem with that is that it was two

fifteen – two twenty in the afternoon when this young girl got shot in front of a

dozen of her friends from all of about – I don’t know, forty feet away in the

middle of the day. On the block where all these hard working people are working

real hard to get them grey stones rehabbed and livin’ in them grey stones ‘cause

they are rehabbed and this shit happens in the middle of the day right then and

there. Not only in front of a dozen kids who see the shooter, but in front of the

people that live there – that are there. One other neat thing about all these grey

stones in – in the neighborhood there – you know these people that buy these big

homes and they – they put all this money into it. So you know what else they do?

They put video surveillance equipment on their property, okay. That’s to make

sure nobody comes in and burglarizes their property. Aside from that there’s

pods. You know them pod cameras that the police have in the neighborhood and

all of this?

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Ward: Hmm-hmm. 00:51:06

Halloran: There’s pod cameras all over the neighborhood. So one of the

things we’ve been doin’ since this young girl got shot is talkin’ to everybody we

can talk to. We talked to all the kids in the neighborhood. We talked to all the

people that live on the block there that were home at the time. We’ve talked to

people who have video surveillance equipment that shows the front of their house

and the street of Oakenwald - both south of where the shooting happened and

north of where the shooting happened. We went out and we got pod video. We

also located a whole bunch of Suwu guys that we had the pleasure of talking to

who were quite helpful and we know for a fact that at two fifteen – two twenty

you were not picking up your brother over at whatever school you say it was.

That you were right there at 44th place and Oakenwald where the shooting

occurred. I got nice pictures of your car scopin’ out the park goin’ south all the

way down to 46th street makin’ a right turn, comin’ up back to Lake Park. I got it

goin’ southbound – uh – I mean north fleeing the scene of the shooting. I got you

on video exiting the front seat of your car and doin’ a flip flop and gettin’ into the

driver’s seat and lettin’ people out of your car and it ain’t Jamarie Stanford and

ain’t your brother Armand. So that story you just told us is just that. It’s nice a

nice little story. Now, look you found yourself in the middle of a gang war here.

You can tell me until you’re blue in the face – as blue as this nice little hoodie you

got, that you weren’t there. I got video showin’ you were there. I got people

showin’ you were there. People looked at you and identified you. That’s why

these men went out and arrested you tonight. If you think because it’s taken ten

23
days for this arrest to happen that – that you got away with it, you guys didn’t. 00:53:47

Now you’re gonna have to say what happened and why? Or you’re gonna leave it

to us to do your talkin’ for you. I don’t think for one minute that you meant for

this young to get shot, but the fact is that she did. So you got to explain that. You

got to tell the people why that happened. You can’t lie about it and say I was at

another school. You weren’t. Think about what I’m tellin’ you. Now how would

I know that you guys drove south down Oakenwald down to 46th street and made

a right turn and come back on Lake Park right before the shooting. That would be

scopin’ out the park in our parlence ‘cause I have this on video doin’ just that.

How would I know this – like northbound down Oakenwald right after the

shooting at a high rate of speed –‘cause I have this captured on video from several

different places. How would I know that you pulled up in front of – I’m gonna

say 3983 and got out of the passenger side of your mom’s car. How would I

know that? And how would I know that the other dude got out the driver seat.

You guys played flip flop and you had the dude in the back seat get out and walk

away if I didn’t see all of that. I got one better for you, how would I know these

things if I didn’t talk to some of them people involved. You guys did a shooting

at two fifteen in the afternoon. You had to know that people were gonna see this.

You had to know that those guys who you fired upon were only about forty feet

away from you guys when it happened. So you can’t tell that story you just told

us, you can’t do it. We shot that story all to hell. We waited until we got all of

this evidence that we wanted it before we asked these men to go out and arrest

you. You know why? ‘Cause we wanted to make sure that we covered all the

24
bases so that when you came in here and told us a fairytale we didn’t have to 00:54:59

swing this door open and say, oh, he’s – he’s tellin’ us a story, we got to let him

go. It’s not gonna happen. You’re under arrest for this murder. Now, only you

can explain what was goin’ on in your brain and in your heart at the time this

thing happened. I know what was goin’ on. You’re partner got gunned down

and another man got gunned down. You guys are in the middle of a war. You

yourself said that Park is 4-6 Terror and you guys thought you were retaliating for

a previous shooting. You had no idea that it was that kid. Okay, I can buy that. I

can say it till I’m blue in the face as blue as this nice little hoodie, but you’re

going to need to explain it. Why it happened. I know how it happened ‘cause I

talked to the 12 kids who survived. I know how it happened ‘cause we talked to

every swingin’ dick on that block that would open up the door and tell us here’s

what we heard, here’s what we saw. I know ‘cause we went and got as many

pieces of – of video as I’ve ever seen on a murder case. I’ve never seen so many

clips of video. How did I know about that tag goin’ across the window of your

car? ‘Cause I’ve seen it in more video that I care to say. Young man, you’re

gonna have to explain why this happened or you’re gonna let everybody else do

your talkin’ for ya’. Now you’ve got a problem, you’re between a rock and a hard

place. There’s no doubt about it. The facts are the facts. You guys went over and

did a shooting and then the wrong person got shot, but you were there and you

were involved and you’re gonna have to explain why. Now you know everything

I just told you is true. You know that we have to know these things and the only

way – you know I wasn’t in your car, you know he wasn’t in your car. How

25
would we know these things? ‘Cause we talked to people that were, ‘cause we 00:56:57

watched a video of you in your car, because we talked to witnesses to shooting,

because we’ve done our homework and researched why the shooting would

happen. It’s there man, and it ain’t you goin’ to pick you brother up at school.

That might have been what your plan was. That might have been what you told

your mother, but that’s not what you did. Now, the guys came and they stopped

you. You were goin’ to celebrate somebody’s birthday tonight? Yes? You had

three car loads of guys and you guys were gonna go out and celebrate somebodies

birthday. I suspect it was at a strip club on Harvey or some nonsense? Again,

how would I know all of these things? I ain’t part of you crew. You weren’t

sending me a text sayin’, hey, come on meet us over here.

Halloran: So, the only thing you really can do is to tell the truth about what

happened and when you do it’s not gonna make you look like an altar boy, I

know. It’s not, but it will be the truth and you’re gonna have to do it.

Murray: I’ve seen remorse go a long, long way. You may not feel that you

want to be honest with us but a least be remorseful that – that little girl go killed.

Halloran: You’ve seen from watchin’ the news. You’ve watched the news

the last week since this happened? You’ve seen all the media attention? It went

all the way up to the white house because the little girl went to the white house in

the inauguration. You have to know that we’ve had every resource available to us.

This isn’t just like runnin’ (inaudible) five hundred and four murders that

happened that just got (inaudible) or just over worked and not cleared. You have

to know that we have every resource at our – our disposal and we’ve used them

26
and when it’s all said and done we asked the men to go out and arrest you. Who 00:58:53

else did they arrest? Did you see? No? Okay, we arrested everybody we were

interested in grabbing out of your whole crew. We cut the rest of them loose but

we grabbed the two guys we wanted.

Murray: You see tomorrow after these twelve kids come in and view you

and the other guy, or guys that we picked up and brought and in - in line up and

they pick you guys out and tell us what they saw you guys do, we don’t need to

hear anything, nothin’.

Halloran: It’d be too late for you to try to be remorseful then won’t it? Now,

look –

Murray: Get up in front of it, man.

Halloran: -- we haven’t lied to you once, everything we’ve told you is the

truth. We haven’t lied to you once and we’re not gonna. We don’t have to. You

are caught dead to right, you really are. I know at some point you were over in

the area 39th and Indiana and picked up too dudes. I fuckin’ know that. Now

how would I know that? We weren’t the two dudes you picked up. I have that

on video. There’s a pod right there by the Rothschild’s. I know you picked up

two dudes.

Murray: And that was right before you pulled up in front of the building on

Lake Park.

Halloran: Young man, you got to do it. You got to tell the truth about what

happened. We were going to do this, we attempted to do this. We did not intend

to do that. Here’s what we did afterwards and then you know what I’d like? I’d

27
like to know where that gun is at so nobody else gets hurt with that fuckin’ gun. 01:00:47

You watch the news, you see a big clamor about guns, guns, guns, guns, guns.

So I want the guns so nobody else gets hurt with that gun. I think those are two

fair things being asked. You have to tell the truth, you have no other out.

Michael, you have no other out.

Murray: Listen, we’ve seen a lot of these things over the years, okay. These

are the – the ones that are tough. You know why they’re tough? And this one

doesn’t need to be tough at all. Hey, listen uh – (audible sound) we saw these

guys there and we want to take retribution for what happened to our friend. Okay,

yes, (inaudible) the girl got hurt – had no intention for her. It doesn’t make you

stone foam – stone cold fuckin’ killer Micheal and you got to remember that.

Remorseful – remorsefulness goes a long way in this society. People make

mistakes, people learn from their mistakes. Fuck man, nobody here is an altar

boy, but people learn from your mistakes and you try (inaudible). This is possibly

the worst thing you can (inaudible) do in your live. (Audible sound) abso

–fuckin’ – lutely it is, absolutely. But get up and (inaudible) and take

responsibility and then you go from there, all right? You can direct upon – you

can have a lot of direction about how this turns out (inaudible), a lot, but we can’t

tell your story for you.

Halloran: You’re not gonna lie your way through this, you’re not. You know

the way these things work. We get all the bits of evidence we need and then we

go arrest you. Not like we go arrest you and then try to figure out what the truth

is. We figured this out. I know about flip floppin’ in that car seat. I know why it

28
was done. I know who pulled the trigger. I know why that was done. I know, he 01:02:42

knows. Don’t make the mistake that if we ask you the question we think we

don’t know the answer to, we do. I let you tell me that whole tale. I let you tell

us that whole tale about where you went, where you went knowing full well it’s

not at all, not at all. Here you are right here. Here you are right here, here you

are there, there you go there. There you are pickin’ up two dudes. There you are

droppin’ off two dudes.

Murray: You would have been better off sayin’, you know what? It was

unremarkable Tuesday. I don’t know where I was.

Halloran: (Audible sound).

Murray: Then – then tryin’ to layout that story like that because you know

what that means? That means you had time to think about how you were going to

play this off.

Halloran: I have video 3983 South Lake Park real nice where you get out of

the passenger side – the front passenger side of your car and you walked over uh -

- and you get in your driver’s seat and the driver gets out and walks up into that

building and then your back passenger gets out and walks away. How did you get

into the front passenger seat of your car that day at that time with these two guys?

How’d that happen? Well the guy in the back seat, that’s Demetrius. The guy in

the front driver seat, that’s Kenny Williams. I know that ‘cause I’m watchin’ the

video, I know that. Now how is it that at that time you got out of the front

passenger seat of your car and got in the driver’s seat and dropped these two guys

off. Tell me that? ‘Cause that’s no part of the story you just told here. No part of

29
that story did you ever once go anywhere near that and I tell you what? You 01:04:27

dropped off Emmett before that?

Ward: Who.

Halloran: Fitz. Ain’t I got the name right? Emmett?

Murray: No.

Halloran: Ernest, they call him Emmette.

Murray: We got so much (inaudible). So many fuckin’ people.

Halloran: Names. You dropped off Ernest right before you pulled up on that

spot. Now how would I know that? ‘Cause I have fuckin’ film of you pickin’

him up. I’ve had conversations. Young man, explain to me that. How did you

get in the front passenger seat in front of 3983 Lake Park to move over to the

driver’s seat and drop Kenny Williams there – yeah, Kenny Williams off and

Demetrius Tucker. How’d you do that? Hmm?

Murray: (Inaudible).

Halloran: I have you on video, I’m watchin’ that.

Murray: Should I give (inaudible) so he can see if he sees that?

Halloran: I – I – I want to get a laptop but I haven’t got it.

Murray: (Inaudible).

Halloran: Answer me that question, who did that happen? Now how would I

even know to say these things if I didn’t see it? Huh?

Ward: I don’t know.

Halloran: Young man, you have to do it. I know, it’s gonna be distasteful

but you have to. Look, you’re not gonna be able to lie your way through this.

30
You’re just not, you’re not. You have to know that this thing has been rollin’ and 01:05:40

rollin’ and rollin’ and we’re talkin’ to people and gatherin’ information. I told

you I know why – I’m gonna go there. I know why you pulled the trigger. I

know why. I know why you had to do it and not the other guy. I know why – I

know why. I know what he said about why he couldn’t do it, okay. I know that.

Now you have to know it. There were thirteen young people in that park your age

give or take a year or two. You have to know some of them have already looked

at your picture and said, that’s the guy right there. Where you wearing the same

light blue hoodie that day? Where you wearing the light blue hoodie similar to

that? No? What were you wearing?

Ward: A black hoodie.

Halloran: A black hoodie, okay. Now explain to me how is it you got in the

front passenger seat of your mom’s car at 3983 Lake Park in the time frame you

told me about this merry ride to pick up your brothers with Kenneth Williams

drivin’ and Demetrius in the back seat. How’d that happen?

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: See you got to know I know what the fuck I’m talkin’ about here.

You got to know it. Now this is just a little print – print out of the video that were

watchin’. That’s you now getting in the driver’s seat. Well we freeze framed it,

that’s you getting into the driver’s seat. Kenneth walkin’ away from the driver’s

seat and uh – Demetrius walked away from the car. Now, that’s clearly you,

that’s clearly your mom’s car. That’s Kenny Williams and that’s Demetrius and I

know Ernest is not in that picture because you just dropped him off. Michael --

31
 01:07:37
Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: -- what happened? Why did this happen?

Ward: Mother fucking Kenneth.

Halloran: And you just said, mother fuckin’ Kenneth. Explain that, why did

this happen. Go ahead, man. You have to, you just have to. It’s your only option

is to tell the truth. I don’t believe for one minute that you left your house with

the intention of killing some young girl. I don’t believe that for a minute, you’re

not that kind of guy but if you don’t explain why this happened people are gonna

believe you’re that kind of guy. You’re right, motherfuckin’ Kenneth. What’s

that mean? Explain that. What you mean by that? Where do you hook up with

Kenneth? Where do you meet him that day? You’re drivin’ your mom’s car.

when do you leave your mom – your mom’s house with your mom’s cow – car

and where do you go to get Kenneth.

Ward: I ain’t even gonna lie to you. I left the crib, I was gonna go get my

little brother.

Murray: Okay.

Ward: Ain’t say this, I ain’t never said I lied but ain’t say this.

Halloran: (Inaudible).

Ward: When I met up with Kenneth --

Halloran: Go ahead, when you met up with Kenneth.

Ward: Dam, hold up. I – kind of forgot how I met up with Kenneth.

Halloran: Well you can’t forget ‘cause it’s --

Ward: I met up with - I met up with Kenny on like 41st --

32
Halloran: 41st and what? 01:09:19

Ward: Pararie.

Halloran: When did you meet up with Kenny at 41st and Pararie?

Ward: Right after I picked up my little brother.

Halloran: Picked up your little brother and did you take your little brother

home?

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: Uh – did you have Stanford with him?

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Halloran: So you and Stanford picked up Kenny?

Ward: I had all the brothers with me and then we went and got Kenny.

Halloran: Okay, so now it’s both your little brothers, Stanford and you go get

Kenny.

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: And what happens?

Ward: We got to my – we go to Alvin crib.

Halloran: Okay.

Ward: And we goin’ up. We all (inaudible) sat down waited till about

three, left out. Drove down Indiana from there on 41st. Saw Demetrius and

Ernest and they asked us to drop them off.

Halloran: So what time do you think this is?

Ward: It’s like well after like three – I was pressed for time ‘cause I had

to get up straight on this drive so –

33
 01:10:21
Halloran: (Audible sound).

Ward: -- about three forty somethin’.

Halloran: Okay, so is it – you – you picked up your first brother at two

fifteen – two eighteen. You picked up your second brother at three thirty. You

picked up Kenny.

Ward: I picked up my brother at three forty-five.

Murray: Three forty-five.

Ward: (Inaudible) get there till about three fifty.

Halloran: Three fifty and then you pick up Kenny how long after that?

Ward: I ain’t never pick Kenny up after that.

Halloran: Well you said --

Halloran: Hold on (inaudible) you’re sayin’ you picked up Kenny before you

picked up your brothers?

Ward: No, I had my two brothers with me already and my other little

brother is still at the school.

Halloran: Okay, and you said you picked up Kenny at 41st and --

Ward: Pararie.

Halloran: -- Pararie. So did you pick him up or not?

Ward: I did.

Halloran: Okay, so what time you think you picked him up?

Ward: At like – right after I pick my little brother up. Like at two thirty.

Halloran: Right after you picked up your little brother at two thirty is when

you picked up Kenny.

34
Ward: Yeah. 01:11:14

Halloran: Yeah, and then what you do – went by Alvin’s house, all of you’s?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Okay, so why do you say, that fuckin’ Kenny? ‘Cause right now

all you’re telling me is jus – that he’s another passenger that you picked up.

Murray: There were a lot of motherfuckers in the car.

Halloran: Yeah, and you went to Alvin’s and then it was three thirty – three

forty-five and where did all you guys go then?

Ward: They ain’t never leave back out with me.

Halloran: Oh, you said you went out and you ran into Alvin or not Alvin uh –

Demetrius and Ernest.

Ward: Yeah, Ernest said drop him off at the crib. Dropped Ernest off at

the crib - Halloran: Oh.

Ward: -- and then we drop Demetrius off on Lake Park.

Halloran: Who’s we?

Ward: Me, Kenny --

Halloran: So Kenny left with you?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Yeah, and what time is all of this happenin’ now?

Ward: At like two thirty.

Halloran: Two thirty, but you were in (inaudible) about three thirty – three

forty-five?

Ward: Yeah.

35
Halloran: Okay, well it’s still got a problem dude. You still got a problem. 01:12:06

Ward: Man, I don’t know but --

Halloran: Well here --

Ward: -- I know I wasn’t on no 44th.

Halloran: Okay, well you got a problem ‘cause you were ‘cause they still

have surveillance video from the homes at – in the 44th or 45 hundred of

Oakenwald. It show your car goin’ past the park southbound. Goin’ all the way

down to 46th and makin’ a right turn. Then they got the got the twelve kids in

the park who were fire upon and a couple of them already identify you. Then I

got the people that live in those homes there who heard shots and look out and see

your mom’s car sittin’ there facin’ east and then goin’ north on Oakenwald. So

then I go over and I get some of them fuckin’ properties on Oakenwald and I got

your car fleein’ the scene of this crime. So where does this, oh, fuckin’ Kenny

come in? Fuckin’ Kenny what? Your story is I picked up fuckin’ Kenny and

he’s just another passenger in my car. Well that’s bullshit, that’s bullshit. You

did the shooting at two fifteen – two twenty – two twenty-five in the afternoon.

Now it might have been rainin’ but it was still two twenty in the afternoon and

you fired into a group of thirteen people. Only one of whom died, twelve others

lived. Do you realize the magnitude of that man? Twelve other people watched

you do this. You ran to your car which was waitin’ on 44th place at two twenty in

the afternoon. So people could hear the gun fire on a block that their not

accustomed to hearin’ gun fire and they look out and they see you and your car

01:13:41

36
fleeing northbound on Oakenwald. Not over at 31st and Indiana or Pararie

pickin’ up fuckin’ Kenny.

Now, you might be right – fuckin’ Kenny. This might be all stemming from

fuckin’ Kenny.

Halloran: Fuckin’ Kenny.

Halloran: Because of what happened to him and the little feud goin’ back and

fort – the shooting where it goin’ back and forth between Suwu and 4-6. You

might be right about that, but this whole story you give is nonsense and you can’t

do it. You can’t do it.

Murray: Kenny didn’t get out – get out of the car and go do the shooting

because they all know Kenny ‘cause he (inaudible).

Halloran: Two twenty in the afternoon - think about it. It’s not eight o’

clock, it’s not midnight. There are a ton of people out there to watch this. Your

remember a man being at the west end in the alley and seein’ a man out there

workin’ on his – his tru – his tow tryin’ to setup a trailer? Remember that adult

man out there?

Ward: What?

Halloran: Well he remembers you. You know what I’m talkin’ about? The

whole path – how would I have your path of escape if I don’t have it captured on

videos and that’s got nothin’ to do with you sittin’ over there at Alvin’s house

chillin’ till three thirty or three forty-five ‘cause you weren’t – and this little tail

you just gave you gave conflicting accounts of your time. You were there you

weren’t there. Two thirty, three thirty, three forty-five you were pressed for time

37
and you had to get on the drive. You can’t do it, it’s not gonna work. If you’re 01:15:25

gonna lie about this little shit we might as well just assume you didn’t give a rats

ass who got killed in that park. If it’s this beautiful young lady who got killed,

you don’t care because if you cared you’d show remorse and you’d talk about

what happened and why it happened the way it did. But the fact is you don’t care

and you want to show the world your contempt. You don’t care. You have no

desire to set it straight. You still think after the things we’ve told you that you’re

gonna lie your way out of this room? You’re not! You’re not! You have a great

big fucking problem and lyin’ ain’t gonna get you out of it. Lyin’ is just gonna

make you look like a cold blooded killer who does not give a care about who got

hurt out there. I got one better for you. Not only did that young lady get killed,

there were two young boys that got wounded too, and you know what? They

ain’t nothin’ about nothin’, they’re just good school goin’ kids. Go ahead; lie

your way out of that too. You just keep diggin’ that deeper and deeper hole.

Now, we’ve touched.

ENDS (01:16:52)

Disk 1

File 2

Segment (00:16:52 to 01:42:25)

Halloran: -- on a few things that you have to know the only way we could

know these things is from learning it the way I told you. People told us who were

in the know. People watched it happened and told us. People identified you and

01:17:19

38
we had the videos. Fuckin’ Kenny, man. How did fuckin’ Kenny get behind the

wheel of your car? Yeah.

Murray: Don’t know?

Halloran: How did fuckin’ Kenny get behind the wheel of your car for you to

get out of the passenger’s seat at 4 at 3983 Oakenwald and switch over to the

driver’s seat? I know ’cause fuckin’ Kenny didn’t wanna pull the trigger. So you

stepped up thinkin’ you were gonna do the right thing in the middle of this gang

war. Well you made a mistake, a terrible mistake and now it’s time to explain it.

Now how the fuck would I know that? I wasn’t sittin’ in the back seat of that car.

(Audible sound). How would I know that Kenneth didn’t want to do the shooting

because he knows these kids or he was afraid they know him?

Murray: (Audible sound).

Halloran: How would I know you were in the passenger seat of your car?

‘Cause we got video of you in the passenger’s seat of your car. We asked you,

how did you get in the passenger’s seat of your car? The only thing you can do is

shake your head. I don’t know. You got in the passenger’s seat in your car

‘cause when you were done firin’ these rounds you ran to the car and Kenny was

sittin’ in the driver’s seat. So you jumped in the passenger’s seat and you guys

speed away.

Murray: How do we know that? People were out there tellin’ us that.

Halloran: It’s a mess, no doubt. Fuckin’ Kenny, well let me ask you this.

Were you goin’ to this little uh – strip club with fuckin’ Kenny tonight? Was he

in one of them other cars? Yeah, he’s not any longer. He’s here, fuckin’ Kenny

39
is under arrest. Now, what do you think Kenny is gonna wanna do? You think 01:19:20
he’s gonna wanna tell the truth about what happened? He certainly is gonna

wanna tell the truth about what happened. He certainly is. Do you know why?

Because in his mind he didn’t do anything wrong ‘cause he didn’t pull the trigger

and he’s over talkin’ to other detectives right now and he’s gonna tell an account

that’s very uhm – suitable, goes right along the lines of the things we already

know. The only thing we really don’t know about what happened that day was

what was going on in here, in your heart and up in your mind. That’s the only

thing we don’t know and we never will unless you explain it, never. But I don’t

have to know what was goin’ on in your heart and mind, I really don’t. All I have

to know is how did it happen and who did it. I know how it happened – car

slowed at the park. Went around to 46, come back up. Parked eastbound on 44th

place, shooter got out – went to the fence line. At one point stood up on a brick

embankment, fired over the fence and shot three people. Ran back to the waiting

car, fled northbound on Oakenwald. Went through a number of streets and

ducked off a couple of people and away he went. That’s all that really happened

though and I already know that. Who was the young man who ran out and did

the shooting? Not fuckin’ Kenny. It was you. How do I know that? ‘Cause

you’ve been identified. Who’s car did I use? Your mom’s. How do I know that?

I got it all over the place, man, people have identified it. You remember that

snowy night – the first snowy night? We were watchin’ your car at your house.

We’ve been on you for a fuckin’ week waiting for the right time to pull the trigger

01:21:00

40
and arrest you. What else man? What else? Michael you have to explain why it

happened. Did you mean to kill some young lady that has nothin’ to do with

nothin’- who had a bright future ahead of her? Or did you mean to shoot up the

4-6 Terror gang members who shot your partner? Did you mean to shoot two

other little boys who had nothin’ to do with nothin’? Do you even care that those

three people were shot? You said you knew the young lady. If you knew her then

you knew how sharp she is and what she had goin’ for her in her life.

Ward: I do.

Halloran: Well if you care then you better prove it and the only way you can

prove it is by explaining the truth about what happened – the facts, and they better

be consistent with what we know ‘cause we pretty much got the facts and then

you got to explain why. Meaning, what was goin’ on in your heart at the time?

What were you thinking? That’s what you hear people say. Adults are always

(inaudible). What were you thinking? What is the reason adults ask that

question? What were you thinking? I was thinking that I didn’t give a rats ass if I

killed that young lady or that young lady, or that young lady, or that young boy.

Or were you thinking I’m in the middle of a gang war and I got to do what’s right.

What were you thinkin’? Now, do we need to know what you were thinkin’ to

send you to court? No, no. The only thing it’s gonna do is show that you’re not a

cold blooded killer and you have some remorse and give you some leverage.

That’s about it. I don’t need to know what’s goin’ on. I’m givin’ you the

opportunity. I already explained to you everything we know about this case. I

told you Kenneth is under arrest – he’s grabbed. We got a whole list of

41
everybody else. Those guys did a wonderful job in grabbin’ a whole bunch of 01:22:57

the motherfuckers. You know what I said? We don’t want them. We don’t need

them, we don’t want them, we’re done with them. We just want him and him.

Why? ‘Cause our investigation is right there. We’re ready. What were you

thinkin’ when you were at that fence line pullin’ the trigger? What were you

thinkin’?

Ward: I wasn’t there.

Halloran: You were there. We have you on video. You were there. You’ve

been identified. You were there. You were not pickin’ kids up at school and

sittin’ at Alvin’s house. We have you scopin’ the park out. We have you fleein’

the scene. We have you dumpin’ off the guys at 39th street. You were there. I

know why you were in the passenger seat of the car, not the driver’s seat. I know

why you were in the passenger’s seat of your mother’s car and fuckin’ Kenny

drivin’ it. It’s a simple question. Why were you in the passenger’s seat of the car

and fuckin’ Kenny drivin’ it?

Ward: Because he was whining and complaining about ‘cause how he got

his Ls.

Halloran: He was whining and complaining about what?

Ward: ‘Cause he got his Ls (inaudible).

Halloran: He got his?

Ward: License.

Halloran: Oh, he got his license. So Kenny was whining and complaining

‘cause he got his driver’s license so you decided to let him drive your mom’s car?

42
 01:24:50
Murray: (Audible sound).

Halloran: And you couldn’t tell me that during this whole twenty minute

conversation we had.

Murray: (Audible sound).

Halloran: No, he jumped in the driver’s seat of the car ‘cause he didn’t have

the balls to go and pull the trigger ‘cause he was afraid that the kids that he was

shootin’ at knows him. That’s why he was in the driver’s seat of your mom’s car.

Murray: I think the fuckin’ Kenny all had to do with – because that – Kenny

is the one who scoped out the park. Kenny was the one who says, he let’s go do

this and Kenny then gives you the fuckin’ gun.

Halloran: That’s why it’s the --

Murray: That’s why the fuckin’ Kenny.

Halloran: That’s right.

Murray: Kenny says I can’t do it because they all know him.

Halloran: That’s right, that’s right.

Murray: A’ight. Kenny was the one that said go take care of business.

Halloran: And you --

Murray: So you go take care of business and sittin’ up here and fuckin’

lyin’ to us just makes it worse and worse because when people fuckin’ find out

that all you did here was come up and pull our dicks for fuckin’ two hours about

this not me, not me, not me (inaudible) all the people identifying you and all the

people comin’ out of the woodwork sayin’ both of them. They’re gonna say,

well you know what? He is a cold hearted motherfucker.

43
Halloran: That’s what the fuckin’ Kenny was about. That’s why you said 01:26:07

fuckin’ Kenny ‘cause he got you into the middle of all this shit.

Murray: Kenny (inaudible) and you do – hey, he said it was 4-6 over there,

I’m gonna go light them up. It wouldn’t matter to us if you light up 4-6 but the

only problem was ain’t no motherfucker in with the 4-6. All fuckin’ honor

students, dude. All from King, all high standings and that’s the problem. That’s

the big problem with this. The second big problem is Michelle Obama came in

for fuckin’ wake and the funeral so you know the President know – the President

knows all about this so you think he’s lyin’ when he said we had all the resources

available to us. Motherfucker FBI callin’ us up – do we need any help? Would

you guys like anything enhanced? What you guys like us to get your cameras for

you? We can go do that house. We’ll take care of this. People all (inaudible).

Never offered anything before (inaudible) in - in any of these murders, nothin’.

But now people say, we got to stop this violence because look, this little girl sang

at the Presidents inauguration. One week she’s at President’s house the next week

she’s dead by her house. That’s what this makes this thing different.

Halloran: By your hand, by your hand.

Murray: That’s what makes this thing different and that’s why it’s so

important that you get out in front of it instead of layin’ behind it tryin’ to tell a

story. You have fuckin’ ten days to get your story together, nice try. You know

what we have. We don’t even (inaudible) anyway. We’re playin’ poker dude.

We already got you beat. You sit here with your (inaudible) voice, with your

blank stare. It ain’t workin’.

44
Halloran: You got a problem, man, because you did pull the trigger. So 01:28:10

that’s your hang up here is you don’t know how to explain it. There’s only one

way to explain it, why. Here’s why, here’s what I was thinkin’.

Murray: Hey, you don’t have to (inaudible) fuck over this thing (inaudible).

He might tell you okay, (inaudible). Don’t’ fuckin’ say a word ‘cause they ain’t -

they ain’t got shit. You know we got shit. You know we got. Don’t you listen to

him. You listen to him once already and look where it got you. You don’t know

what he’s doin’ over there. I know what he’s doin’ over there but I tell you what

if I were – If I were the guy behind the trigger I’d sure be sayin’ somethin’. I

know (inaudible) I had no idea that he was gonna get out of the car and do this.

You want something’ to drink (Inaudible)?

Ward: No, I’m good.

Murray: You want something to drink? Get in front of it, man.

Halloran: Blake touched on a couple of key points there man. Nothin’ we

ain’t said in the last twenty minutes. You got a problem, you pulled the trigger.

There’s no doubt about it. You got to explain why. We knew that when we asked

the men to go out and arrest you. We knew that. You’re not gonna lie your way

through this. You got to know that. The fairytale isn’t gonna swing this door

open for you and say, I’m sorry, we got the wrong guy, go on home. We got the

right guy. We made sure of it. Young man, what the fuck were you thinkin’?

It’s that simple. How old are you?

Ward: Eighteen.
01:30:09

45
Halloran: All right, you’re eighteen. I’ve been working homicide twenty-

two years. Four years before you were even born I was doin’ this. You’re not

the first young man I’ve had who’s stuck between a rock and a hard place who

don’t know how to do the right thing. You’re just gonna have to do the right

thing and that means tell the truth and you’re gonna be able to see we got our

finger on what happened. We got our finger on the pulse. We may not have all

the facts one hundred percent correct ‘cause we weren’t in the car at the time.

That’s the only way all I could have all the facts correct. It’s like a great big

puzzle. Now we’ve got all these pieces and we put it together and once we put

together we make an arrest. Well we’ve put this big puzzle together. We’ve been

doin’ it for years and years and years and I can’t count the number of young men

who have been stuck between a rock and a hard place like you. Some of them

pound on their chest and say I’m you know, BD, GD, Stonefreud from you know

– yeah, that goes over real well in court. Some of them show remorse. Some of

them explain why this terrible thing happened. Some of them let the world know

what was goin’ on in their heart at the time this happened. I am not that vicious

killer I’m being painted out to be. Here’s why this happened. Here’s the reality

of what’s goin’ on over there at 44th and Oakenwald and 39th and Lake Park.

The reality is our people are being killed, our twelve year olds are being shot and

we have to shoot back. That’s the reality. Only the reality you’re lookin’ at now

is, I’m gonna lie my way out of the murder here. I’m gonna lie my way through

this. No you’re not, no you’re not.

01:32:13

46
Murray: You’re not goin’ to . You got it? You’re not goin’ to. You are

gonna go downstairs and you are gonna go to county (inaudible) and you’re

gonna get a public defender and this case gonna last two or three years while you

sit in fuckin’ county jail.

Halloran: Michael, --

Murray: Now --

Halloran: -- what were you thinkin’? Why did you pull the trigger?

Murray: Tuesday morning when your mom wakes up and the news casters

standing on the front door step sayin’, why is your son such a harden criminal?

Or do you want it to be, I talked to my son and said that he was sorry.

Halloran: ‘Cause you have to have somethin’ to say about this? You have to.

You really do have to have somethin’ to say about this. I mean in your heart of

hearts you know this was a horrible thing. This was a lovely young lady, this

never should have happened. So you have to have somethin’ to say about it. Do

you wanna say that I got my facts wrong. Okay, show me where I got my facts

wrong. Prove it to me. Do you wanna say I’m not the harden criminal that

they’re painting me out to be. Okay, prove it to me - but we don’t have our facts

wrong. The only thing we’re unsure of is your heart. How hard hearted are you?

Look, one of the things my partner touched on was it’s real easy when these guys

are out in a set – in whatever group you’re with. I don’t care what it is. It’s the

same bullshit year after year. Hey, man, everybody keep your fuckin’ mouth

shut. Bang your chest, five to the sky – whatever the sign is. Handshake -

whatever the deal is every crew goes through it. Say nothin’ – say nothing to the

47
police. Say nothing to everybody except it always falls apart. When people are 01:34:05

sittin’ in rooms like this, lookin’ at time they always do one thing. They take care

of themselves. When people see the pressure that’s been goin’ on here they say,

oh, wait a minute. There’s reward money? I wanna piece of that. Here’s what I

know. Wanna come in and talk to you – abso – fuckin – lutley. But the point

being when you guys are all out there in the corner or in the club house or in

somebody’s apartment or in the car. You can bang your chest and fist to the sky

or whatever sign you guys throw up and say we’re all one, man. We’re tight,

don’t worry about it, nobody is sayin’ nothin’. That goes right out the fuckin’

window the minute it’s getting to a position like this because people start seeing

the reality and the reality is you guys are not all one, you guys are not –

everybody takes care of themselves and that’s what happens here.

Murray: How about there’s a little group that gets together and they – they come

back and they say, too many motherfucker are runnin’ their motherfuckin’

mouths. Too many motherfucker are – are – talkin’ about what happened. Ya’ll

need to shut up! That happened just the other day.

Halloran: But it didn’t work. It didn’t work. I mean the day after that type

of meeting we’re makin’ arrests. Why do you think that is?

Murray: Oh- oh.

Halloran: ‘Cause that shit didn’t work. Nobody can keep their mouth shut in

somethin’ like this.

Murray: It’s a shame you’re tyin’ to keep your mouth shut --

Halloran: Michael --

48
 01:35:58
Murray: -- ‘cause you know what? We’re doin’ all the fuckin’ talkin’.

Halloran: Micheal, you tried to lie your way out of this. We’ve painted you

the picture about why that lie is not gonna work and we went one further. I did it.

I told you in know the end result in your story. Let’s get to the quick. The end

Murray: (Audible sound).

Halloran: Is that really what you want to tell people? Is that really what you

want a judge and a jury of your peers to consider? You’re defense is fuckin’

Kenny wanted to drive ‘cause he got a new license. Really? No, you – he hit right

on the head when you said it, fuckin’ Kenny.

Murray: Right.

Halloran: This all started because of him. Explain it man, go ahead. Go

ahead, you got no choice.

Murray: It’s the smart play to do. If you ever did a smart thing in your life

gettin’ in front of this one is a smart play.

Halloran: What choice do you have? We’ve presented you a lot of the

evidence we have in this case. What choice do you really have? We’ve told you

about the facts as we know it. What choice do you have other then to tell the

truth? Come on, Michael. Tell us what you were thinkin’. Tell us why fuckin’

Kenny. I know man, it’s tough but you have to.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: I know man.

Ward: I don’t know --

Halloran: You don’t know --

49
 01:38:46
Ward: -- how to.

Halloran: Okay, you’re not gonna lie to us, go ahead.

Ward: I just said fuckin’ Kenny.

Halloran: Okay, what about fuckin’ Kenny.

Ward: He in a jam.

Halloran: He’s in a jam. He got you in a jam. You’re in a jam. You should

--

Ward: I see that --

Halloran: Okay.

Ward: -- instead I’m being charged for that murders (inaudible).

Halloran: You haven’t been charged with anything yet. You’re under arrest

for those murders, for that murder. The other two kids ain’t – they got wounded,

there fine, okay? Fuckin’ Kenny, why did the shooting happen? Why the

shooting at that park happen?

Ward: I don’t know.

Halloran: Sure you know. You were involved in it. Of course you know.

Ward: It looked like from what I saw at the news wrong time, wrong

place.

Halloran: Hey man, I could watch the news all day long except I haven’t.

You know why? ‘Cause I’ve been busy makin’ the news here. We don’t need to

watch the news and you didn’t watch the news to determine wrong place, wrong

time. You know that kid was in the wrong place wrong time ‘cause you were one

of the players involved in the incident. Not because you watched the news. Now

50
if you’re gonna spew that bullshit at me. I’m just gonna go have a cup of coffee 01:40:01

and not waste my time here, okay? And feel free to tell me, hey detective, I’m

gonna to waste your time here tryin’ to blow smoke up your ass and you’re never

gonna believe it. So go ahead with your cup of coffee.

Murray: There’s gonna be a time that we’re gonna be tired of talkin’ to you

(inaudible) and we’re gonna leave. You know what? And when we come back

we’re gonna start havin’ lineups and for everything finger you can – that you get

for your participation out there --

Halloran: You’re gonna wanna explain it.

Murray: -- your – your – our patients to talk to you shrinks.

Halloran: Let me ask you something. Do you think we’ve lied to you about

anything we said?

Ward: I don’t know.

Halloran: You don’t know?

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: I can’t – can’t hear you.

Ward: That I don’t know.

Halloran: You don’t know if we lied to you? (Inaudible) I assure you we

did not. I mean when I mentioned the video and see you guys get out of the car

my partner went and grabbed a little clip of the video to show you that. Of course

we’re not lying to you. Of course you know it was two twenty in the afternoon.

Of course you know that neighborhood and you know how all them greystones

and homes over there are all being bought up and - and remodeled and people are

51
puttin’ money into them and fixing them. Of course you know all of that and of 01:41:20

course you know the path of your car when you fled and of course you know you

stepped up on that concrete embankment and shot over the fence at one point.

Now how the fuck would know that if I didn’t talk to people who were there to

see you do that?

Halloran: I (inaudible) on this one.

Murray: You think you have nowhere to go because we’ve already thrown

at you we know you’re the shooter and you really don’t have. You can’t turn

around and say, yeah, but Kenny was the shooter. Yeah, I was there but I was

drivin’ and Kenny was the shooter. You really can’t do that. You can explain

why you were the shooter.

Ward: I ain’t got nothin’ else to say.

Halloran: You want to take a break? You can take a break. You don’t want

to talk to me you don’t have to talk to me. You got nothin’ else to say? All right

man, when you want somethin’ I want you to bang on that door real loud, okay?

‘Cause I’m gonna be in another room. So bang on that door. You got to go to the

bathroom before I leave? No? Okay, when you do bang on that door.

Ward: (Inaudible) I’m get my cigarette they took?

Halloran: You want a cigarette?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: All right, we’ll see about gettin’ that.

ENDS (01:42:25)

Disk 1

52
File 2 01:47:04

Segment (01:47:06 to 01:47:26)

Halloran: Here you go man. You want your cigarette?

Ward: Dam.

Halloran: What? Dude I don’t smoke. I just give you what we got. All

right? All right man.

ENDS (01:47:26)

Disk 1

File 2

Segment (01:53:02 to 01:54:08)

Halloran: Hey, young man. Sit up. You have to (inaudible). Do me a favor,

take off your hoodie. I’m gonna give you this (inaudible). It’s clean. Here, you

can put that on. You can see it’s clean, we cleaned it.

Halloran: Right, any questions?

Halloran: Any questions?

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: I can’t hear you.

Ward: When do I go to uh – the lineup.

Halloran: Well we’ll do that in the morning. It’s – it’s the middle of the

night. I’m not gonna bring anybody in here at this time. We’ll do it in the

morning.

Ward: All right.

03:17:23

53
Halloran: All right, anything else? All right well, bang on that door if you

need somethin’.

ENDS (01:54:08)

Disk 1

File 4

Segment (03:17:23 to 04:03:01)

Halloran: Wake up young man. Hey, hey, wake up, wake up. Have a seat up

on the bench. You gotta go to the bathroom? I can’t hear you.

Ward: No, sir.

Halloran: No. You got a clear head? You’re awake? Do me a favor, move

over a little bit. All right the last time we talked you said uh – you didn’t have no

more to explain to us at that time. I got a couple of more questions I got to ask

you.

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: You want to entertain them and listen to me and – and field these

questions? Uhm – are you awake? Yeah? Okay, so you want to talk to me for a

couple of minutes here. I got a question about the car – your ma’s car, you know.

You know you guys used this in the shooting and I got to determine what I’m

gonna do with it. You realize that? I mean right now we have it confiscated. I

told you I got a question about that gun that was used and you know because the

big push is get these guns, get these guns and we don’t want any more kids being

hurt with that gun. I’ll ask you this, is the gun in the car tonight? I mean we

03:19:13

54
haven’t gone over to search it yet. The gun is not in the car? Okay. Is the gun

at your mom’s house? I can’t hear you man, you got to speak up.

Ward: No.

Halloran: No? So if we search that house we’re not gonna find that gun,

correct?

Ward: That’s right.

Halloran: All right, I don’t want put your mother through any more

unnecessary nonsense or BS over this incident then she’s gonna have to go

through, do you understand that? All right, what happened to the gun after the

shooting?

Ward: I don’t know.

Halloran: Well did you take it with you? Did Kenneth take it with him? I

watched you get out of your car. It looked to me like he had – if I’m not uh - my

memory is correct. It looked like he had a book bag and another little duffle bag

or somethin’ in hand. Was the gun in that bag? Did he take it with him up in his

building?

Ward: (Audible sound).

Halloran: I can’t understand that, what?

Ward: I don’t know. He had no gun when he was with me.

Halloran: Well no, you guys did have a gun in the car. You used it to shoot

at that park. Of course either he got out of the car with the gun or you took out

with you. Now I would suspect that he got out with it because this whole thing

started with him, not with you. This whole thing was about him being shot, not

55
you. What are you thinkin’ man? You asked me when I came in here and gave 03:21:33

you the hoodie and we took your other jacket, when do the lineups begin and I

told you it’s in the middle of the morning. We’re gonna do that first thing

tomorrow, not bringing all these peopled in at four in the mornin’ and what not.

But what you don’t understand is lineups have already been done, you know?

(Inaudible) that’s why I should have brought one in. We put your picture with a

group of other pictures and we take them and we show them to the witnesses and

they look at a group of photos and they say, that guy right there. That’s already

been done, because that kind of thing has already been done that’s why we go out

and arrest you aside from everything else we’ve talked to. So we’ve already had

lineups done. Tomorrow is gonna be the physical lineup were you gonna stand up

in a room and those same people that looked at the photos and picture are gonna

come in and look at you in person. So lineups have already been done - the

photo lineups, okay? You’ve already been identified. Now, I would stop

thinkin’ about yourself and how you think you’re gonna lie out of this and start

thinkin’ about the great big picture. You got a family, does your family mean

more to you then these guys in Suwu? Then prove it, then prove it because right

now all you’re showin’ the judge and jury of your peers is that that street gang

and that violence that goes on between Suwu and 4-6 Terror means more to you

then your own family. Now I told you we don’t have all - we have some of the

facts. We don’t have it all. We might have a thing or two wrong because the only

thing really know for sure is that we weren’t in the car with you at the time of the

murder. That’s the only way I would have a hundred percent right. So if I got

56
somethin’ wrong then you got to straighten it out. Otherwise it’s goin’ as is and 03:23:43

if I got a detail wrong, if he got a detail wrong then it’s up to you to straighten it

out ‘cause if you don’t nobody else is gonna. But you ain’t gonna straighten it

out with a fairytale. Now I’ve talked to your mother. I’ve explained to her the

position you’re in. All right – well I’m gettin’ a phone call. I got to go take that

phone call and when I’m done I’m gonna come back and finish this conversation,

all right.

Halloran: Here, I’mma sit with him.

Halloran: All right.

Murray: Here’s what he’s tellin’ ( inaudible) is that nobody wants to be in

your position. Unfortunately sometimes people get put in your position, okay.

It’s the worst spot. I wouldn’t want to sit in that seat either but unfortunately

you’re there, okay. You’re very distinctive looking. Meaning your features –

your fate is in a photograph, okay. It comes off the same. He’s very distinctive

looking also, Ken. It would be hard to mistake you two, right? ‘Cause he’s got

the dreads, he’s a little taller, he’s thinner. But none the less to me the thing is

here the physical lineup is basically just a formality of this thing because the

people who picked you out are gonna pick you out again. There was no

hesitation, no anything. It’s all the people that are gonna look at you because

they weren’t sure, but I’m sure they’ll pick you out also. If you waitin’ for that

time when – when – when - to talk after lineups, you shouldn’t do that.

(Inaudible) because then it might be too late. I mean we’re not yellin’ and

screaming, what were you thinkin’. You know, beatin’ you up or anything like

57
that. We’re sittin’ and havein’ conversations with you, okay. If you were my 03:26:21

son I would hope you got out in front of it ‘cause I know my son isn’t a fuckin’

stone hard killer but he did somethin’ wrong and he listened to somebody or

somebody influenced him one way or another and did this bad thing and he’s

gonna get out in front of it. If for no other reason to show his younger brothers

that, listen, I am man. I fucked up, I did somethin’ wrong. This ain’t the way I

want you guys to grow up to (inaudible). Or unless it is. Then so be it.

Halloran: (Inaudible).

Murray: What are your question, man? Do you have any? So we’re just

talkin’ and we’re just – you’re just – you’re either listening or you don’t give a

shit, right?

Ward: Listening to everything ya’ll sayin’.

Murray: Okay, that’s all I wanna hear because you know what? I’ll sit here

and talk to you all night then. If you’re listening to me (inaudible) worth then –

then it’s worth somethin’. If you see (inaudible), you know what? (Inaudible)

give a shit what you’re sayin’ boss. No problem, I will – we don’t have to waste

each other’s time. I mean I’m goin’ tolisten all right. I don’t want to pull on

your heart strings and make you tell me because you know what – it would be the

right thing to do. You know there is no right thing to do here because you know

what? The right thing would be to keep the gun in the car. A lot of guys get

fucked up on that point man. Guns for protection, it’s not for going after people.

So these gun control people are goin’ nut because so many people are havin’ these

03:28:39

58
guns and attacking other people with them instead of using them for what they

were really worth is to protect yourself. That’s why you’re hearing all this

outlash out – out cry about this one. This is why Mrs. – Mrs. Obama came here

for this because it meant that much to her that that girl sang at – at her

inauguration, at her husband’s inauguration. That that girl took time out of her

life to spend a moment in his life. The least she could do is come here, you

know. That’s why she made the plea at the funeral today or yesterday about

hoping the person who did this would come in and do the right thing. It doesn’t

make it any better, but you know what? It doesn’t make it any worse. Darn right

it might mean somethin’, but it is what it is at this point. I can’t promise you

down the line what a judge would do but I do know this. For as many years I’ve

been doin’ this people that show remorse and take responsibility for their actions

are treated differently then the people who sit here and do nothin’ to help

themselves. There’s certain things down the road that this could (inaudible) help

you. I know like I said, I can’t make you any promises but I do know from past

experience that things like that happen. The notoriety of this – of this event it’s

really big now because it’s been a week and because it got national press. In a

week it’ll be somethin’ else and no one will be makin’ big push and a big

screaming match about what happens to you.

Murray: And when it comes down to whether the courts have to do what the

courts got to do. It’ll all play out the way it needs to play out. Don’t think you’re

weak because you’re sittin’ here and you’re givin’ – givin’ up shit, all right.

Don’t think you’re weak at all because the most important part of this is not what

59
you think those other people are gonna thing of you. It’s what you think of you. 03:33:57

This isn’t weak. (Inaudible) at least he (inaudible) he’s sittin’ here listening to us

so that why I think that’s a big (inaudible). So I told him we can sit here and talk

all night with whatever he wants to talk about.

Halloran: Right, you’re gonna have to come to grips with your mother and

then have a discussion with her regardless of what is said in this room ‘cause

she’s gonna be faced with the barrage of the facts and the truth. You’re gonna

have to do that. You’re gonna have to look yourself in the mirror and say and

did I man up. Am I a man or am I like – half a million others knot heads who just

don’t give a shit. Remember how I told you about photo arrays, like lineups –

photo lineups? This is the kind of thing I’m referring to. See that? That’s how

– see how easy that is? That you in the middle of this group photos – that’s an

example of how you got picked out already, all right. The lineups have already

been done. You’ve already been identified. Now I started to tell you before I got

that phone call that we may not have all the facts one hundred percent correct,

well then you got to straighten us out, okay. We’ve might have missed a thing or

two or don’t understand somethin’ or got something a skewed. Well then you got

to straighten us out. But sittin’ there with that tale you told us at the beginning of

the night that’s not gonna do it. That’s just not gonna do it. Sittin’ there sayin’, I

don’t know what happened to the gun ‘cause we didn’t have no gun when started

our day. That’s not gonna do it, it’s not. It ain’t. Sittin’ here sayin’, my family

means more to me then these guys Suwu and then lyin’ about what happened.

That’s not gonna hold it either. You made a mistake that night, that afternoon.

60
You don’t explain why that happened you’re makin’ a just as big a mistake right 03:32:58

now.

Halloran: How old are you?

Ward: Eighteen.

Murray: You could still have a life after this. Nothin’ says you have to go

away for ever and ever and ever. You --

Halloran: What --

Murray: -- you can still have a life after this.

Halloran: -- what’s going on in your mind?

Ward: Shit, think how like man I’m fucked.

Halloran: Well yeah – you – you are in between a rock and a hard place.

I’m not gonna sugar coat it. Yeah, there’s a young girl that’s dead. This is the

worst thing that could happen in your life. Lyin’ about it ain’t gonna make it

better. Tellin’ the truth about it is gonna give some remorse and it’s gonna show

people you have remorse and show people possible to show mercy.

Murray: The man made a mistake and I know that’s what I would say. The

man made a mistake. He’s (inaudible) sure. You got a little pictures in you’re –

in your life before this. You ain’t never (inaudible) get arrested for shooting

anybody. No, you made a mistake.

Halloran: Yeah, you’re in mess, it’s true, and it’s true.

Murray: Mistakes can be explained. They can’t be explained away but the

can be explained. This is why this happened.

03:34:46

61
Halloran: In your short life when did you ever realize that lyin’ about a

problem is the way to get out of it? What -- when has that ever worked? It

certainly ain’t gonna work in this situation. It just makes things worse. You

don’t tell us the truth then we got to listen to what everybody else is saying and

take their words as the truth. My God, what if somebody is tellin’ us is wait a

minute, it was not my idea. It was not because I got shot, it was not because

anything I wanted to do. It was all about him, this is all about him. This was all

his idea. I just found myself goin’ along for the ride.

Murray: He said he wanted to make his bones.

Halloran: Hmm.

Murray: I don’t know why. I definitely wouldn’t let anybody speaking for

me.

Halloran: You gonna want me up on the witness stand speaking for ya’?

‘Cause that’s gonna be part of my job, it’s gonna be part of his job to sit in that

court room and tell the judge and jury of your peers – here’s the facts as we know

it. Here’s the step in the investigation we took, here’s what we did next, here

what we did next.

Murray: Hey, listen --

Halloran: Here’s everything we learned.

Murray: -- and those jury of your peers they not gonna be off of 39th and

Lake Park. Oh they’ll be – they’ll be some people from the – the area and then –

then – things like that. But most of these people are gonna be out from the

suburbs and those that hear about this nasty, nasty crime and it keeps goin’ on and

62
then they’ll remember, oh my God, this is Haydia’s case. The President cried for 03:36:13

Haydia.

Halloran: Certainly ain’t gonna be a jury of Suwu.

Murray: Yeah.

Halloran: Or other gangster disciples. I know right now you’re thinkin’

how the fuck did I get here? How did I get in the middle of this bullshit?

Murray: (Inaudible).

Halloran: And then you’re thinkin’ how am I getting’ out of it?

Murray: Fuck (inaudible).

Halloran: You’re not getting’ out of it, you’re not getting’ out of it. You’re

stuck. You can tell the truth, you can straighten us out if we got somethin’ wrong

but you got to do it.

Murray: You know we keep sayin’ – I keep sayin’ get out in front of it.

You don’t want to be underneath the snowball as you’re throwin’ it. You want to

be out in front, you want to be away from the snowball because it’s gonna

(inaudible). (Inaudible) it’s gonna be – it’s just – it’s gonna steam right – right

downhill man, right into oblivion. Like he said, there’s a possibility you could

still have a life (inaudible). It’s not a possibility you’ve got to stay in your

prison for the rest of your life because of this, okay.

Halloran: You said, fuckin’ Kenny. When you realized you were between a

rock and a hard place you said, fuckin’ Kenny.

Ward: They not even offering niggars thirty years no more.

Murray: Say that again?

63
Ward: They not even offering people thirty years. 03:37:24

Halloran: Well we’re not gonna discuss --

Murray: I’m not gonna discuss (inaudible) offer they’re gonna give you or

anything like that.

Halloran: They’re gonna tell you you’re stuck between a rock and a hard

place. I’m not a judge, I can’t offer you anything. That’s not what we’re doin’.

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: We’re tellin’ you if you appear before a man and you appear

before a woman and you’re lying what’s – what’s – what option do you have –

have give a man? What option do you give a woman? If you appear before

somebody and you show remorse and you explain here’s what truly happened and

here’s why it happened and you turn and you tell the family how sorry you are.

Or are you gonna turn and pound your chest and tell the family the police got it

wrong, all these people are wrong. There the ones who’s wrong. That car is

wrong, that video is wrong, that video is wrong, that video wrong - everybody is

wrong. Then what message are you sendin’? This ain’t about who’s gonna offer

you what. We’re not givin’ into that conversation. This is about you settin’ the

record straight and explaining why this happened. Or you let us do it, you let

Kenny do it for you. You let these other guys do it for you and you let all of

these witness come and tell how horrifying and terrified they were ‘cause all they

were doin’ was standin’ under a canopy tryin’ to stay dry. Or you’ll explain

here’s what I know. Here’s the game we’re goin’ on that I found myself in the

middle of. Maybe it was somethin’ so simple it’s because you had the car that

64
day. Maybe that’s how you got dragged into this. It could be somethin’ that 03:39:04

simple. But if you don’t tell me and you don’t tell him then how the hell is

everybody gonna know. All we’re gonna know is what we see and what we’re

told by others. You hit it on the head, fuckin’ Kenny. You’re right the – you’re

right there. You’re right, that’s lynchman, that’s the swing, that’s – that’s the

hinge that made all of this go into play. I know that, he knows that.

Murray: Go down the block. See who’s out.

Halloran: I know that.

Murray: They out there.

Halloran: Did you see anybody in that park that you wanted to shoot? Or

was it pointed out to you that there’s people in the park – 4-6 in the park. Did you

scope out the parking say, there’s 4-6? Or was it scoped out by Kenny and said,

there’s 4-6 in there. We’re on a mission, or what I say? We’re on drill.

Ward: (Inaudible) I wasn’t even at that park.

Halloran: You were at that park. We’re beyond whether at that park. Of

course you were at that park.

Murray: Got your car goin’ around the block at that park.

Halloran: My God man, we got video of you scopin’ out the park before the

shooting. Now how the hell do you think you’re gonna get by that. Fuckin’

Kenny was just tryin’ out his new driver’s license.

Murray: (Audible sound).

Halloran: Are you tellin’ me that Haydia Pendleton died because fuckin’

Kenny was tryin’ out his new driver’s license? Really?

65
Murray: (Audible sound). 03:40:23

Halloran: God man.

Murray: You can --

Halloran: (inaudible).

Murray: -- (inaudible) that shit dude.

Halloran: I got (inaudible). :

Murray: (Inaudible) how many years you’re gonna do? And you’re gettin’

hung up on that. We’re not even at that stage.

Halloran: I got to tell you man, I sit here and I talk to you and I see that you

look like you were on the verge of wanted to do the right thing and then you say

somethin’ so fuckin’ asinine. We weren’t even in the park. Of course you were,

of course you were. I give you an opening and tell you well maybe I got a couple

of little things wrong, maybe you can straighten it out and the best you do say,

you got it all wrong. It wasn’t none of me, it wasn’t none of him. Okay, he’s full

of shit, they’re full of shit. Our videos are full of shit, our witnesses are full of

shit. This whole ten day investigation is full of shit. Every resources we’ve have

used is all wrong. The only one who’s right in this whole mess is you. Except

when we ask you about your day you give us one account and then we tell you,

hey but you left out the part here. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right, ‘cause you

got me on video so oh – well I went over here and then I went over here and I

picked him up. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but what about this video? Oh yeah, yeah,

well then I picked them two guys up too.

Murray: What do you have a fuckin’ van? No, you have a Nissan, dude.

66
Halloran: So you really tellin’ me you want to drag your two brothers into 03:41:57

this, right? That’s what you’re tellin’ me? Aside from the – the pain and

suffering you’re gonna cause this family – your own family. Now, you want to

add insult to injury and drag your brother’s into it and try and use them as an alibi

for you? Fine, we’ll drag them into it. That’s not a problem. We’ll drag them

into it. We’ll be fine and happy to. That’s really the kind of man you are?

Okay, well then prove it ‘cause your first cock and bull story – that bullshit you

fed us, you tried to use your two brothers as an alibi and when we told you and

showed you one clip of a long series of video we got and then you came off of

that and then you threw some other guys in there and then you threw some more

shit in there and but hey, if you want to use them as an alibi we’ll – we’ll go for it.

We’ll drag them into it too. No problem ‘cause – ‘cause your family is not gonna

go through enough pain and suffering over this, no problem. Stop it! You’re not

a fuckin’ four year old, you’re not challenged. Yeah, you’re stuck between a rock

and a hard place, but you’re sharp enough to know what happened and what needs

to be done here. And you’re also sharp enough to know the pain and suffering

you’ve caused and you’re sharp enough to know the pain and suffering you’re

gonna ‘cause with this nonsense. Yes, you are under arrest. Your mother is

gonna suffer for it, your brothers are gonna suffer for it. Yes, they are – you’re

under arrest. Yep, it’s gonna be hard on your family. Go ahead and fuckin’ lie

about it. Go ahead and drag this out and make it worse. Go ahead and use them

as an alibi, come on. Make it even worse, Stop it. I would think you’re a better

03:43:40

67
man then that. Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know you, I don’t run the streets with

you. I get an impression of people when I talk to them. I’ve been doin’ this for a

very long time. Maybe I got the wrong impression of you. Maybe I thought you

had somethin’ upstairs and you were willin’ to fuckin’ do the right thing. Maybe

I got that all wrong.

Murray: How far did you get in school?

Ward: Senior year.

Murray: Senior year? Where you go?

Ward: Phillips.

Murray: Phillips?

Ward: Yeah, I went to Chicago the university of – it’s called CAT.

Murray: Alternative school or did you drop out?

Ward: I got transferred.

Murray: Transferred, okay. You still a senior? Or you graduated?

Ward: No, I was goin’ to Malcom X for GED.

Murray: Goin’ back – back to get your GED. Okay man, so you know

what’s right, and you know what’ s wrong. You’re not a very – you’re not a

dumb person.

Halloran: Are you an evil person? Are you? Do you have feeling? You

seen on the news for the last ten days all the conversation, all the news stories, all

the pain and suffering that this shooting has caused. It’s got to affect you. You

guys to know that you weren’t gonna be able to lay low and it just – it’ll go away.

Murray: Surprised you guys didn’t go away. If I had ten days to get - to

68
get out of town I would have been gettin’ out of town. I didn’t think there’s no 03:45:36

way you guys were gonna stick around. Did you just think that nobody – nobody

would come forward on this? Did you think those twelve people in the fuckin’

park on a – on a Tuesday afternoon at two o’clock –

Halloran: (Audible sound).

Murray: -- that they would – that they wouldn’t have to have the gumption

or the spirit to identify the person that killed they’re friend. Who was just doin’

nothin’ but hangin’ out at the park. Who had done nothin’ in her whole life but

the right thing - the correct thing? Do you think those people would just sit back

and do nothing? Do you think those people that bought those – those grey stones

across the street and the one that’s right next to the park – the one that you stood

right at the garbage cans and shot over the fence? Do you think that guy who

built that house wants that shit around there? Do you think the people who live

on the blo - behind that (inaudible) red park - the most beautiful fuckin’ house,

do you think they want that shit there? They don’t want that shit there because

they put video cameras fuckin’ everywhere – everywhere. You (inaudible) your

mom. You started calculating your lie about well if they did, but the must tellin’

truth because you know what? They keep comin’ to these videos. You’re car

wasn’t at that park not more than two minutes later, boom! The shooting starts.

I’m sorry, you’re car goes down Oakenwald and two minutes later the shooting

starts. (Inaudible) you’re car goes (inaudible) around on Oakenwald, picked up

on Lake Park, comes back up and parks over there on (inaudible). Doesn’t take

two minutes. Especially two o’clock in the afternoon – two fifteen in the

69
afternoon – two twenty-one in the afternoon Those people that (inaudible) 03:47:42

houses (inaudible). Now they wanna (inaudible). They want to build the area up.

Why? Because the university is takin’ over a lot of property. The President lives

in a house not far from where this happened. The – the rest of the community

wants to get rid of this shit. They tore down all the projects over the place. They

don’t want the shit no more. People are gettin’ tired of shit and so when they hear

gun shots in area where they normally don’t hear gun shots they look out the

window and they see people running to cars and they see people do different

things and they tell us, yep, (inaudible). Yep, sure does.

Halloran: Yep.

Murray: This look like the guy who got out of the passenger’s side and

walked around to the driver’s side and (inaudible). This looks like the guy you

seen come in up (inaudible). How do I get that? How do we get that? People

are tellin’ us.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murray: We don’t need no magic ball (inaudible) Ouija board. We don’t

do suspicion and – and thought.

Halloran: Right, you’re not under arrest for suspicion of murder.

Murray: You’re under arrest for murder.

Halloran: Okay, Kenneth is under arrest for murder. Just you two, just you

two. How do you expect this to end? Where do you see the silver lining in this

black cloud? Don’t you think that young girl’s family deserves to know the

truth? Honestly, you said you knew her from school and what not and you know

70
Halloran: Why don’t you show her how well she did and tell the truth. Tell 03:52:20

the truth. Set us straight if we got somethin’ wrong here, but tell the truth. Don’t

think you’re gonna stand here and say, I wasn’t at the park - don’t. Show here

that she did raise a good man, not a stone killer or gangbanger. Hey, I’ve made

mistakes, he’s made mistakes. You clearly made a mistake. Show your mother

she raised a good man. Not some punk gang banger who just doesn’t give a rats

ass who he shot. Doesn’t give a rats ass about any of the consequences of his

actions. There is gonna come a time when – when I talk to your mom. I told

you I sat on the phone. I couldn’t tell her all that much on the phone, but there

will be a time when I sit with her and I tell her the facts of this case. She is

gonna know the truth about what happened. The truth as far as I know it and as

far as he knows it. She’s gonna say like they all do, why? Why?

Murray: What was he thinking?

Halloran: You know April, I really don’t know the why of it ‘cause he tried

to lie his way out of it and we were stuck at that point. And he got stuck and

confronted in a lie and he told another lie. So maybe he’ll tell you why and then

when we get done tellin’ her the facts of the case and she hears it all then you go

ahead and try and tell her. No, they got it wrong, it wasn’t me and you know

dam well while she’s lookin’ at you she’s gonna know you’re lying to her. That

the route you wanna take? Or hey, yeah, I was with my brothers, man. You guys

got it all wrong. Really? That’s the young man I raised? To drag his other

brother in there. Not only did you make a mistake then – now he’s draggin’ the

other kid into it?

71
Murray: And - and here’s a good point. If you picked up your brother 03:53:38

when you said you picked up your brother, then your brother would be in the car

when you did this fuckin’ murder.

Halloran: But he wasn’t.

Murray: But he wasn’t.

Halloran: But he wasn’t.

Murray: Now I definitely wouldn’t want my brother gettin’ stuck in that.

Halloran: See if I believe for one minute that he was he would be up here in a

row, but I know from everything I’ve learned it was you and Kenneth. Fuckin’

Kenny.

Murray: Fuckin’ Kenny.

Halloran: Fuckin’ Kenny why?

Murray: (Inaudible) Kenny.

Halloran: Why fuckin’ Kenny? “Cause he got a new driver’s license and

wanted to drive my car.

Murray: (Audible sound).

Halloran: (Inaudible) now even you see how lame that is? Well fuckin’

Kenny is seein’ an out and he’s gonna try to take it and you’re gonna be surprised

when trial time when fuckin’ Kenny wants to testify against you to save his own

ass. When you’re out on that street you’re all one and all together. It’s all

wonderful. You guys have fuckin’ drink, you smoke a joint. No police around

you, you guys tough – hard as nails. When the shit hits the wall and everybody is

lookin’ at goin’ away, getting’ charged, doin’ what they got to do – everybody

72
takes care of themselves and fuckin’ Kenny is taken care of himself just like 03:54:59

everybody else does. That’s been my experience, that’s been his experience for

over twenty-five fuckin’ years. The only one not takin’ care of themselves is you

‘cause you’re stuck in a – you guys got it all wrong. I wasn’t there. I was all the

way out on 63rd and King and drivin’ this way and drivin’ that way. No the fuck

you weren’t. Here’s a video clip of you guys goin’ past the part two minutes

before the shooting. You were where? 60th because you can’t turn on the 63rd

Murray: And the fact that you remembered like that means that (audible

sound) (indicating) you had to rehearse it in your mind over and over again. It’s

not the truth. The truth would have been Tuesday we (inaudible). Got me uh – I

don’t know where the fuck I was. But you put yourself so far away from that park

it almost made (inaudible) to listen to your story.

Halloran: Yeah, you gave me a route. I went this way and turned a U turn. I

did this; I went this way because you can’t turn that way. I went this way and did

this. Wow, really? I take my son to school every other day and you know what?

I’d be hard pressed to tell you all them turns I take. You know whether it was

rainin’, traffic was backed up. I cut through this way. You laid it out well-

rehearsed, well done. You certainly didn’t anticipate that we had it on video.

Murray: And you know what? I give you credit for that also. Shows

(inaudible) shows for – fore hought. It shows that you’re not a stupid person.

You attempted to come in here with uh - a bullshit (inaudible) al - alibi about a uh

– this and a certain route you took. Thinking if I’m very specific they’ll have to

believe me and it’s weird you fucked up is where you’ve gotten really specific.

73
Halloran: Don’t you understand that? We wanted you to get specific. Go 03:57:07

ahead, tell me exactly where you were at two eight - two eighteen? You threw

that time at us.

Murray: Yeah.

Halloran: Two eighteen, you know why? ‘Cause that’ the time of the fuckin’

murder. I was all the way down at 63rd pickin’ up my brother. No you weren’t.

I have witnesses put you right there. I have video puts you right there.

Murray: It’s a wonderful thing video. I had thought I’d hate it. Wonderful

thing – cuts out all the bullshit.

Halloran: Young man, stop it. You can’t do this. You’re playin’ a game you

can’t win. You are in so far over your fuckin’ head. You realize the tough

situation you’re in. You realize the pain you cause. You realize the pain you are

now causing. You can only tell the truth. You have nothin’ to lose by tellin’ the

truth. What the fuck could you possibly lose by tellin’ the truth?

Murray: You’re freedom?

Halloran: You better forget all of that bullshit gang banger mentality that you

hear about on the street.

Murray: Don’t say (inaudible).

Halloran: Forget it, it’s bullshit gang banger mentality that gets guys

nowhere. It’s overcome easily and quickly in real life. This ain’t some rap video,

this ain’t some gangster movie. This is real life. So forget about all hard talkin’,

hard bullshit out on the street ‘cause you ain’t out there. Neither is Kenneth and

I’ll be honest with you, Suwu – all them fuckin’ guys is a done deal. This

74
shooting has put the seal on Suwu. There will be no more Suwu street gang. It’s 03:59:13

gonna be nonexistent. Guys can go out and call themselves anything else they

want but they’ll be no more Suwu. I guarantee you that because of all the

resources that have been put at our fingertips. That gang is gone away. Every

swingin’ dick out there that walks around with a pistol, that violates his parole,

violates probation, get’s caught with a gun, gets caught with a bag of dope, gets

caught movin’ a bag of dope – slaps his girlfriend. Zero tolerance, they’re all

gonna go away. No more Subu. It happened to gangs like the El Rukans, they

all got locked up. That may have generated into some other street gang. Well

that’s what’s gonna happen to Subu. They’ll be a few guys left smart enough not

to call themselves Subu because there’s a target on Subu back now and it’ll be

nonexistent. That’s because of you and fuckin’ Kenny.

Murray: And let’s put it this way. They ain’t gonna send you a money for –

to your (inaudible) and you’re gonna (inaudible) buy you a thing for Christmas.

Halloran: Not one of them tough guys is gonna make your life any easier.

Murray: No.

Halloran: None are gonna make your mom’s life easier or your brother’s life

easier.

Murray: They ain’t gonna do your time.

Halloran: None of them. Nobody is gonna make your life easier, nobody

except you - nobody.

Murray: I – I tell you what. You can sit in here and you can – after we

charge you. Officially send you down stairs to the lock up. After that every guy

75
– Suwu guy who was at that meeting the other day is gonna get brought in and 04:01:01

they’re gonna get asked what’d you know? What do you know? If you want to

get out in front of this and you know what? I will guarantee you more than half

if not all are gonna say, well yeah, they got theirs ‘cause too many mother fuckers

were talkin’ so we got to keep our mouth shut. ‘Cause you know what? Half

their guys are on probation and parole for some stupid shit they did and they don’t

want to get bothered and they don’t want to go do your time.

Halloran: Michael, you’re in too deep. You’re not equipped to play this

game and walk out of here, it’s not gonna happen. You’re not equipped to lie

your way through this. That’s not gonna happen. You are equipped to set a

couple of things straight. You are equipped to tell the world who you really are.

You are equipped to try to ease some of the burden and pain that you have caused.

Only you can do that. You watched the news, you watch these dramas. You

watch these shows. A man tells the family I am sorry, it helps. It helps that

family.

Murray: And it helps that man. Don’t be worried about settin’ a time frame

on when you’re gonna get out. Things change daily. (Inaudible) tough, sure

(inaudible) tough.

Halloran: Why’d this happen? Why’d this happen? This time, that day, that

park – why did it happen?

Ward: Got nothin’ to say.

Halloran: You got nothin’ to say? All right, we’ll take a break, all right.

ENDS (04:03:01)

76
Disk 2 07:02:35
File 2

Segment (07:02:35 to 07:02:59)

Murray: Michael, we got to take you down stairs to get fingerprinted and

photographed, come on.

Michael Ward leaves the room at 07:02:59

ENDS (07:02:59)

Disk 2

File 3

Segment (07:16:53 to 07:18:22)

Halloran: (Inaudible) man. Did they take your picture and photograph yet?

They fingerprint you? Okay, then the lock up keeper gave you back to us and we

brought you up here? Yes?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Okay, (audible sound) you gettin’ the general idea that this is for

real and it’s happenin’? Huh?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Yeah, you know last time we were here you said you didn’t want

to tell us anything. You’ve been thinkin’ since we took off? Or did you just fall

asleep and conked out for an hour and a half? Two hours, three hours.

Ward: Went to sleep.

07:17:32

77
Halloran: You went to sleep. All right, well now that you’re awake and you

see you’re being processed for this murder any thoughts? Still gonna try to lie

your way out of it?

Murray: (Inaudible) it’s real simple. If you don’t want to say nothin’ about

it, if you don’t want to say nothin’ about it then just tell us I’m done talkin’.

Okay, that’s fine, all right. Just so we don’t have to keep comin’ in here and

botherin’ you.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: Can’t hear you.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Halloran: You don’t want to talk about it. Okay, all right man.

Murray: Just remember the chance is yours, boss, chance is yours.

ENDS (07:18:22)

Disk 2

File 4

Segment (09:11:23 to 09:11:52)

Murphy: Hey.

Ward: What?

Murphy: You got to use the bathroom at all?

Ward: (Audible sound).

Murphy: Got to use the bathroom? You’re – you’re hungry? All right,

I’mma get you – you – McDonalds or somethin’? You all right with that? All

right, like what?

78
Ward: Mcdouble. 09:11:42

Murphy: Mcdouble? With fries or somethin’ – a coke? All right, you don’t

– you don’t have to use the bathroom at all right now? All right, we’ll be back all

right.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: (Audible sound)

ENDS (09:11:52)

Disk 2

File 5

Segment (10:16:18 to ?)

Murphy: You knockin?

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: What’s you got to use the bathroom? All right, give me one

second. I got (inaudible).

Disk 3

File 1

Segment (10:17:02 to 10:18:47)

Murphy: Hey, you got to use the bathroom? All right, come on. Walk with

your hands behind your back, okay?

Michael Ward leaves the room at 10:17:09

Michael Ward returns to the room at 10:18:23

Murphy: All right, you just went for a washroom (inaudible). Need

anything else right now? Oh you got that food, but they don’t sell burgers until

79
ten thirty so you got to wait until then. 10:18:33

Ward: All right.

Murphy: Cool with that?

Ward: I need some – can get something to lay on or somethin’?

Murphy: A what?

Ward: Some to lay on or somethin’?

Murphy: I don’t think we have anything to lay on. You need some water or

anything o – other then that? Want some water?

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: Okay, I’ll get you some water.

ENDS (10:18:47)

Disk 3

File 1

Segment (10:30:55 to 10:31:16)

Murphy: Here’s some water. Just gonna take the top for it. Good?

Ward: No, I had a question.

Murphy: Yeah, what’s up?

Ward: (Inaudible) the investigation or am I being charged?

Murphy: Uh – you haven’t been charged with anything yet. You’re here for

investigation. Well come back in a little bit. When I bring you food we’ll come

back and talk to you in a little bit, all right.

Ward: All right.

Murphy: Huh.

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ENDS (10:31:16) 11:50:25
Disk 3

File 2

Segment (11:50:25 to 11:51:10)

Murphy: Your lunch here.

Ward: Hmm.

Murphy: Your lunch is here. It’s a coke, right? That’s what you want?

Straight?

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: (Inaudible).

Ward: (Inaudible) yet?

Murphy: Huh?

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: You what?

Ward: You said you gonna come back and talk to me (inaudible).

Murphy: Yeah – yeah give me a couple of minutes here, all right. Go ahead

– go and eat and then we’ll come back, all right.

Ward: Uh-huh.

Murphy: You’re all right.

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: What’s a matter?

Ward: I need to know how long this – how long can they keep me in the

investigative.

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Murphy: I’ll come back and explain everything to you, okay. Eat your 11:50:59

lunch, we’ll come back and we’ll talk to you in a little bit, all right.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: You’re welcome for the food though. You could have a bologna

sandwich right?

Ward: Cool.

Murphy: All right.

ENDS (11:51:07)

Disk 3

File 3

Segment (12:31:01 to 13:16:50)

Murphy: (Inaudible) what’s up man? Get up. Hey yo, you all right? Sit

up, sit up.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: Did you eat?

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: You got that smoke? You wanna smoke?

Ward: You ask me?

Murphy: Hmm-hmm.

Reiff: (Inaudible) at the desk.

Murphy: I’ll go get it.

Reiff: What’s goin’ on, man? You’re Michael? Is it Michael?

Ward: Yeah.

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Reiff: That’s how it’s pronounced? All right, how was the food? So- so? 12:31:35

Not good.

Ward: (Inaudible) couldn’t eat all of it.

Reiff: Probably upset huh? All right, he’s gonna get you a smoke. He

said you had some questions for us? What’d you want to ask him?

Ward: Yeah, I asked him if I’m under arrest or am I under investigation?

Reiff: Yeah, you’re – you’re under arrest. Uhm – you talked to those

detectives last night, right? Halloran and uh – Murray I think. We looked over

everything and talked to those guys. Uhm – me – you know what – they told you

this. Maybe you didn’t remember but you’re under arrest for - for the murder of

the girl right now, okay. Uhm – state’s attorney are involved. Have you ever

been to Cook County Jail before? You have been. For what?

Ward: Gun case.

Reiff: What kind of case?

Ward: I can’t (inaudible).

Reiff: Oh you don’t smoke?

Ward: I smoke but I can’t (inaudible).

Reiff: What? That’s garbage?

Reiff: (Inaudible) bad – bad smokes?

Reiff: What do you like (inaudible) or somethin’? Newports?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: All right, so like they said. Uhm – they laid everything out, man,

you know. There’s some other stuff too but their – you know what you’re up

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against, all right. Uhm - you’re gonna be standin’ in a shit load of lineups. It’s 12:32:46

gonna happen in a few hours, okay? There’s a lot of people out there. You know

that, all right, ‘cause you were there. But the bottom line is your world is gettin’

real small right now. You’re opportunity to explain your actions that day it’s

gettin’ – it’s gettin’ less and less and at some point, you know if you decide you

want to tell us a story after you be – you’re gonna get picked out a bunch of times

in these lines up. It’s not gonna hold the value that it could hold before that

because you know – you understand what that means? If someone is sayin’ I

wasn’t there, I wasn’t there, I wasn’t there and all of a sudden now they realize,

oh fuck , I’m gettin’ – standin’ in lineups and you’re gonna go in lineups with

some other guys and these people are gonna look at you and their gonna look at

you and there’s gonna be a bunch of them and you start gettin’ picked out, picked

out, picked out – which we anticipate that you will, okay. Now you come back in

this little room and then you want to tell us why it happened or what was your

intentions that day. It’s not gonna be as believable anywhere near as – as it would

be at this time now or when you talked to those guys last night because that’s –

that’s a guy who now realizes that we weren’t bullshitin’. Okay, that the evidence

is – is amazing against you right now. It’s amazing, it’s comin’ from every

direction. It’s comin’ from the outside, it’s comin’ from people who were out

there on the scene. It’s comin’ from people who were near the scene. It’s comin’

from video cameras. It’s comin’ from people you know, okay, and we anticipate

that that’s gonna continue to grow. We already got a mountain of evidence

against you, all right, and – and Halloran and Murray were tryin’ to give you an

84
opportunity to explain your actions – a why. I don’t think anybody believes that 12:34:18

you’re a cold hearted killer. That you want – that you set out that day to a fifteen

year old beautiful girl, you know that had her whole life in front of her. Nobody –

I don’t know if anybody really believes that but the story that’s gonna be told

about you is that you are, okay? The whole Suwu gang war shit, that’s all gonna

– that – that’s the way it’s all gonna play out for you. I mean they weren’t – they

told you all of this. I know they did. They weren’t jokin’, okay? You’re not

leavin’ this room. You’re gonna get charged with this case. You’re gonna go

away for murder, okay. The only question is, are you gonna tell your side of the

story or not?

Ward: I’m sayin’ though, that’s why I keep askin’ yesterday like if I told

ya’ll my side of the story what does that have anything to do with me still goin’

away?

Reiff: Because it’s – what – what happens to you from this point forward,

okay – when – when you’re case goes up – comes up in front of a judge and jury.

People are gonna – are gonna hear your end of the story if you tell it – the truth,

okay? And what was in your heart that day. If me and him go rob a bank, all

right, because let’s say he – let’s say his – his – he’s got a sick kid or somethin’

and the kid is gonna die and he need money for a cancer operation or whatever

and the reason behind us goin’ to hit that bank is because he needs money to pay

for an operation. Now we go in there that day and we rob the bank, okay.

Everything goes fine, we get the money, we come outside the bank all of a sudden

there – there’s some off duty police officers walkin’ down the street and sees us.

85
They – he starts shootin’ us, we shoot back. He ends up gettin’ killed. Wait, we 12:35:57

hit a – innocent bystander. She goes down and dies. We get in the car, we take

off – we’re goin’. Now we’re in the same room that you’re in right now and they

come to me and him and they ask me – us separately, what was in your heart that

day? Do you wanna go down as a cold blooded bank robber that didn’t give a

fuck? If he doesn’t tell that story of about his sick kid or whatever is goin’ on in

his world. Why he – what led him to rob that bank that day. No one is ever

gonna know it and you can’t go to court and say, you know what? Three years

ago this is what was in my heart. I didn’t mean to do it or whatever was goin’

through your mind. No one is ever gonna believe that shit ‘cause you’re – at that

point you’re a desperate man and I know that this has got to be upsetting, man.

You saw her, you knew the girl. You knew her, you saw her pictures on the

news, all right? I mean this is a huge case. This is a – she’s a beautiful girl, okay.

If you didn’t mean for it to happen, if there’s somethin’ that we don’t know then

tell us. Tell for yourself, you ain’t doin’ it for me.

Murphy: Mean you didn’t mean – you didn’t mean that, right? I mean I – I

can’t imagine --

Reiff: Or did ya’? You know what I’m sayin’? I mean, you got to tell

your side of the story. Just like if you did what I just told you. If he never says

about his sick kid or whatever and then that was really true no one would ever

know it and they just say you know what? These were a couple of jag off bank

robbers and two people are dead because of them, fuck ‘em. We’re gonna give
12:37:19

86
them everything we got. No mercy. If there’s somethin’ in your heart that you

know what you were (inaudible) at. There was a gang issue.

Detective: Yeah, you – I mean you gotta – you’re gonna – it’s – you’re gonna

make peace in your own heart is what – is what it’s gonna come down to. It’s

whether you’re gonna wanna do that or not and you know we – you know --

Reiff: And – and --

Murphy: Go ahead.

Reiff: And the people who are gonna be judging most importantly are

gonna – are gonna see that come out of your own mouth. They’re gonna hear it

and they’re gonna see it. They’re gonna know that – you know what, he said that

shit before he started gettin’ picked out. They’re gonna know if it’s true and if

it’s not true, it’s not true. But if you did give fuck about this, if you did have

sleepless nights or whatever it is that you felt bad about. If it did but wasn’t

meant to happen like it went down you have to tell us. You have to say it – you

have to say it out loud or no one is ever gonna know, no one is ever gonna believe

it.

Murphy: What I’m thinkin’ is that you’re – you’re – it’s – it’s – it’s a very

scary situation. You’re scared inside, you know and I can tell you that you’re

gonna make – you’re gonna – you’re gonna be quicker if you – if you make peace

with yourself and you – you know, explain to us what happened and people are

gonna see that you’re – you know that you do have a heart. You’re not – you’re

not – you’re not this big thug. You’re not this – you know, you made a mistake.

That there’s a mistake that was made out there. You didn’t intend to shoot that

87
girl, you know what I’m sayin’? Maybe it was someone else that you were tryin’ 12:38:41

to scare or whatever. I don’t – I don’t know the reason. That’s – you know these

things that we have are a lot of people out there. What we don’t know is what

you were thinkin’ and we’d like to know that, we want to know. You know we’re

– you know mistakes – mistakes are made. It’s how you – you come back and

show yourself as a man and you know, you explain what you were thinkin’ and

what – uh – why you were out there and what was goin’ on through your head,

you know. Those are the things that we’re (inaudible) you know – you know

what I’m sayin’?

Ward: Yeah, they said that he locked Kenny up too?

Reiff: Hmm-hmm.

Ward: Where is he at?

Reiff: He’s here. He’s in the building? Do you not believe that or – it’s

true.

Ward: (Inaudible) tell me (inaudible).

Reiff: I can show you his mug shot photo with the date on it from – from his –

about the same time you got nailed. I mean this was - this was all – this was all

part of the plan okay (inaudible).

Murphy: It’s – it’s not – like he’s explainin’ and the – and like the other

detectives explained to you. It wasn’t by accident that they would you know.

Ward: Yeah.

12:39:49

88
Murphy: We did a lot of investigating. There’s a lot of people that were out

there. There are a lot of people that were talk to. There’s a lot of cameras that are

out there. You know so it’s not an accident that we came to you. There’s a lot of

investigation, there’s a lot evidence that was piled up against you. It’s not a

matter of whether you did or you didn’t do it. It’s a matter whether you’re going

to tell us and you know essentially you know lighten your heart a little bit and

show maybe some remorse or – and then – like and say it was an accident or

whatever. There’s – there’s nobody in this room has a doubt of what happened.

(Inaudible) what we want to know was inside your head. What – what – you

know (inaudible).

Reiff: (Inaudible) right?

Ward: Hmm?

Reiff: You got a mom, right? April? Okay, when you were little, when

you were a little kid and you – and you messed up. When you were five, six years

old if you can remember that far back. If you – somethin’ – if you broke a vase

or somethin’ or – or whatever. You broke a window playin’ ball. What was the

one thing you – most of us are get – get our asses whipped but what’s the one

thing you can always say to mom that made a – made it better. No matter how

bad a thing you did.

Ward: I’m sorry.

Reiff: Yeah, exactly and you know what? That shit don’t change when

you’re twenty, when you’re thirty, when you’re sixty. Okay, everybody makes

12:41:09

89
mistakes. If you’re sorry about what happened, Michael, you got to say it. You

got to say it, you got to explain your actions.

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: Okay, I can’t – I can’t emphasize that enough.

Murphy: I mean you were – (inaudible) – like his anolo – or he was

explaining about how you broke a vase, whatever, you were first afraid of your

momma, right. Your mom would find out and whoopin’ your ass and if you

would lie to your mom or didn’t tell your mom what happened, what happened?

It came – it came five fold, right? It came out that much higher. She’s like, you

didn’t tell me? If you would just come to tell me and – and what’d you do? And

if you did tell her, what’d you do? You felt a little bit better about yourself, right.

You felt – you – you – you told the truth. You – you know you – you explained

what happened. Yeah, you may get a punishment – you are gonna get a

punishment for breakin’ that vase, but that punishment probably isn’t gonna be as

fivefold as if you – you sit here, you stay stone faced, you stayin’ cold, you know

what I’m sayin’? If you didn’t tell your mom and those are – those are the things

you got to think about. Does that make sense? Does that make sense to you,

yeah? Yes or no.

Ward: No, I’m starting to thing now by you sayin’ that this shit better off

for me tellin’ what happened and --

Murphy: The truth.

Ward: -- you could see what --

Murphy: Well we --

90
Ward: -- ya’ll could do for me or -- 12:42:24

Murphy: What we want is (inaudible).

Ward: -- (inaudible). I’m just gonna take all of it.

Murphy: What- we want the truth --

Reiff: The truth --

Murphy: -- is what we want.

Reiff: -- man, we want the truth.

Murphy: We don’t want – we don’t want, hey you want to do this for that,

no. We want the truth of what happened from the beginning to the finish. That’s

all we want, that’s it. Does that make sense to ya’?

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: What – I mean, what – what are you thinkin’? (Inaudible) go

ahead.

Ward: Shit. I told them yesterday?

Murphy: What?

Reiff: Well you lied yesterday.

Murphy: You lied (inaudible)

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Murphy: Yesterday wasn’t the truth. You know – you know that, right?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: It – I mean it sucks dude, but you know what? You got to deal

with the hand your dealt, okay. I know you – I know how it is, man. We do this

12:43:05

91
shit all the time. Gang on Gang, GD and BD, Vice Lord on Stones – it don’t

matter. It’s all the same shit.

Murphy: That – that bullshit aside you are a human being. You specifically,

you have a family. You have a mother that you love, correct? Right? You have

brothers – I mean, I’m not worried about you know, with the gang – the gang

bangin’ bullshit or whatever the – the shit you might have gotten caught up in.

You are human being in there, you understand? We treat you like a human being.

You know, we’re not – we’re not treating you like a gang bangin’ thug ‘cause you

know why? I – we’ve met gang bangin’ thugs. I think you made a mistake is

what I think. This is my personal opinion, okay. I think it was a mistake, she

shouldn’t have gotten shot out there. Maybe you were tryin’ to scare some

motherfuckers or whatever and show who – you know maybe a little (inaudible).

I don’t know, I – again I don’t know ‘cause I’m not inside talkin’ with you freely.

You know, I’m pullin’ these things together because of the things that we’ve

talked about, because of the things we’ve investigated – the video that we’ve

seen. The people that we’ve talked to that you know personally. Those things

have all – and then we develop an idea of what we think happened. And then

sitting here talking to you for ten minutes I can see it, I can see you know – you –

you got to be a little concerned ‘cause you know she was a good girl. She was a

good person. Do I believe that you’re a bad person? No, I believe you’re a good

person that made a big mistake, you know what I’m sayin’?

Reiff: You can’t change what you did. All you can do is do the best you

can for yourself now and when these people are gonna be lookin’ at you in a

92
couple years - want to make a decision on what – what – what’s gonna happen to 12:44:46

you ultimately on this case. The number one thing is they already know you did

it. They’re gonna know you did it. That’s number one, number two is did he

give a shit about it. Did he explained why.

Ward: They got me on camera doin’ it?

Reiff: They got you – dude, you’re on so many god dam cameras I can’t

even care to explain - countless, okay.

Ward: The officer last night told me I ain’t even on camera --

Reiff: Listen --

Ward: -- he got me up from these buildings.

Reiff: -- there are cameras all over the place, okay. I’m not gonna give

you the details of every camera you’re on but there’s how many people in the

park? There’s like – there’s over ten kids in the park. There’s people by their

houses, there’s people everywhere.

Murphy: It’s broad daylight.

Reiff: It’s broad daylight.

Murphy: Daylight. You know --

Reiff: Let me go ahead --

Murphy: -- it’s not the middle of the night.

Reiff: I don’t want to confuse you anymore. I’m gonna explain to you

one more story so you can understand what I’m talkin’ about. You’re not a

dummy, I can tell that by talkin’ to you, all right. You like sports? You watch

sports? Somewhat? Baseball – the whole steroid thing? You understand that?

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You know what the – what’s goin’ on with that? How all these guys were doin’ 12:45:42

steroids in the last ten- fifteen years - Mark Maguire, Sammy Sosa --

Murphy: (Audible sound) excuse me.

Reiff: They (inaudible) the home runs. All those guys that were

involved in that – the guys that said fuck you, I never took a steroid in my life.

They can’t even get a vote for the hall a fame now, where’s they would have been

a shoe in. The guys that actually said, you know what? I fucked up. I was – you

know I was hurt, I was just – I did it. I did the steroids, it was a mistake. They

took responsibility for what they did was wrong. No matter how fuckin’ bad you

do, no matter what mistakes you make, if you stand up like a man and you take

responsibility for when you explain your actions. People who are gonna judge

you are gonna see you in a different light and I know you know that’s true. That’s

basic human function, okay. If he doesn’t tell that story about his kid being sick

and dyin’ and you were sittin’ on that jury about what’s gonna happen to him,

you’re like fuck him. Fuck him, he’s a fuckin’ bank robbin’ thug. If has tears in

eyes and he talks about how he – it – it wasn’t supposed to go on like that and he

was doin’ it for the – this other reason, you’re gonna look at him differently and

you know that’s true and so is everybody else. That’s what we’re talkin’ about

here. You can’t get out of this, dude.

Ward: All right, can I speak to Kenny then?

Reiff: You can’t talk to him right now.

Ward: Dam.

Murphy: He’s here, okay.

94
Reiff: He’s here. 12:47:04

Murphy: I can show you the picture with his – with the date on it. Last

night it was the arrest. Like you don’t – you don’t talk to him. Why you want to

talk to him about it?

Ward: I just want to ask him somethin’.

Murphy: Oh -

Reiff: What are you --

Murphy: -- we can’t – we can’t let you do that.

Reiff: Okay, you know that. It don’t work like that. Don’t worry

(inaudible).

Murphy: Tell us (Inaudible). I mean, did you mean – did you mean to shoot

her?

Reiff: Start with the beginning and it all fuckin’ folds out and you know

what? You’re gonna never feel better then you’ve ever felt since this happened.

That shit in the pit of your stomach is gonna start to come out. It’s gonna start to

relieve.

Ward: Uh – it’s – it’s hard.

Reiff: I know it sucks.

Ward: It’s hard.

Murphy: What’s – what’s – what’s hard man? Tell me, explain to me

what’s hard.

12:47:58

95
Ward: (Inaudible) it ain’t no point in sayin’ nothin’ ‘cause even if – even

if I was never – even if I didn’t do it I – and I still in this predicament. I’m still

getting’ a honey years.

Murphy: What if we bring – what if bring her mother in. I mean what if we

were to bring her mother and you just said that same line. There’s no point in

even sayin’ anything. What would you say to her mother? You know what I’m

sayin’? Would you say, you know I’m sorry. Or would you say, hey, there’s no

point in even talkin’ to you. I don’t think you’re like that man.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: I mean are you?

Ward: I’m not --

Murphy: (Inaudible).

Ward: -- I’m not that type of person that --

Murphy: Right.

Ward: -- but its hard and you know like life is crazy like my – my best

friend got took from me a couple of months ago for the same exact thing. A

straight honor student --

Reiff: I know who he is. I know who you talk about.

Ward: Every day they – they murder my man cold blooded. Police said

fuck us in our face about the shit. They said fuck us. So how we – what we

supposed to about that? And they come through killin’ us every day. Like

literally we don’t even go down there no more.

Reiff: Who you talkin’ about?

96
Ward: Don’t nobody go over (inaudible). 12:48:55

Reiff: Talkin’ about 4-6?

Ward: Yeah, don’t nobody go down there.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: Don’t know body go – they shot – they shot one of the little girls

off our block. They shot her with a – a whole forty with a thirty shot and – shot

her with it. Shot one of the big – one the – a dude that ain’t even from over there.

Shot him lit up - shot him. They tried to kill Kenny and killed Dewan.

Reiff: I know.

Ward: And don’t nobody give a fuck about us down there.

Reiff: See that’s where you’re wrong. We work all these cases.

Murphy: We ran --

Reiff: I understand you may --

Ward: They say, fuck us in our face.

Murphy: (Inaudible).

Reiff: Okay, okay, all right – let me --

Murphy: Go.

Reiff: -- look, I understand what you’re sayin’. I know even in – am I

wrong by sayin’ this? That you guys feel you got to take the matter into your own

hands. Is that what you’re tryin’ to say?

Ward: We ain’t got no choice if --

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: -- we out there getting’ killed every day.

97
Reiff: Hey, we understand that. We do this shit all the time. I’ve been 12:49:38

doin’ it for almost ten years, okay. I understand that but you got to explain it.

When you – when you went to the park that day with Kenny. You – you tell me,

what was your intention? Was your intention to kill a fifteen year old beautiful

girl that had her whole life ahead of her? Or was it somethin’ else? You have to

tell us.

Ward: Nobody ever plans on killin’ no fifteen year old girl. No --

Reiff: Did you?

Ward: I ain’t kill no fifteen year old girl.

Reiff Did you plan on it?

Ward: I (inaudible) said I did it and I can’t say that.

Reiff: Michael we know you did it, okay. Why – we were past that.

Okay, we’re here that you would get to explain your actions that day. The hardest

thing is the start. That hardest thing is to say – it’s to begin to admit what you

did, that you messed up and then from there the shit will flow, and that’s when

people are gonna know that you’re tellin’ the truth. When the emotion comes out.

Murphy: Would it – would it help if we (audible sound) would it help if we

showed you that arrest report or showed you that we have him in here? Do you

not believe that?

Reiff: Do you think he has more to lose then you? Or less then you?

Ward: I (inaudible) I mean --

Murphy: Listen here --

Ward: (Inaudible).

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Reiff: Hold on -- 12:50:47

Murphy: ‘Cause you’re – you’re startin’ to go off and I ain’t doin’ none of

that (inaudible) and listen I think you’re losing focus of what was explained to

you already and the details that were explained to you earlier about --

Ward: No, I understand --

Reiff: -- you (inaudible) right.

Ward: -- (inaudible) ‘cause me and Kenny is being charged for this

murder.

Murphy: You haven’t been charged with anything yet. Let’s make that

clear. You haven’t been charged with anything.

Reiff: We anticipate it’s gonna happen here --

Murphy: Right.

Reiff: -- real shortly, okay. You’re under arrest for murder, both of you,

okay. I anticipate you’re both gonna get charged. In fact I’m pretty sure of it,

okay. Without anything else, without you standin’ in even one line up based on

all the shit that we have already. You’re gonna stand over ten laps and you’re

gonna get picked out a bunch of times.

Detective: Let me – but the question --

Reiff: I believe that.

Murphy: -- yeah, the question of the matter is, is whether again whether you

are remorseful for it and – uh – and – and you want to talk to us about that. You

understand what I’m sayin’? Because the thing is – is you know you – we give

you all this – we give we all this information explaining to you that we have you

99
know plenty of – you know, charge you with and the lineups that we’re gonna be 12:51:49

conducting later on this evening. We – we conduct those lineups and everybody

picks you out then, you know what? You’re gonna ge – you’re gonna go and

you’re gonna - if you – you choose to say nothin’ then you’re gonna go in the

court, you know you’re gonna do whatever and you’re not gonna – it’s gonna be

tough, it’s gonna be tough because --

Reiff: You have to understand you’re – you’re --

Murphy: -- it’s very difficult.

Reiff: -- you have to understand you’re gettin’ this case. That’s – there’s

no - there’s no doubt about that, okay. You got murder, you’re gonn – you’re

gonna be fightin’ murder. How fuckin’ – how bad it is for you is up to you, okay.

You’re right there, you’re right there about explaining your actions --

Murphy: You’re (inaudible).

Reiff: -- and you’re afraid --

Murphy: You know I could have made a mistake is what I’m thinkin’.

Reiff: -- and I can’t understand why – why you won’t just explain your

actions. You’ve got everything to gain --

Ward: You got to look at it from my point of view though.

Murphy: What is your point of view?

Ward: I nigger still finna go down like you said.

Reiff: But uh – we just spent like the last twenty minutes explaining to

you the people – okay, I – I don’t want (inaudible) confuse you but I wanna to

make sure you understand.

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Detective: Newport. 12:52:59

Ward: Thank you please.

Reiff: Okay, when this trial – when this thing goes to trail usually takes

like several years, okay. When it does go to trail it’s still gonna be a judge or it’s

gonna be jury that’s gonna decide what’s gonna happen to you. You know what

those two things are obviously, right? Okay, they’re not robots. They’re people

with – with emotions, okay. Those are people that gonna judge when they say,

you know what? Am I gonna – what am I gonna do with Michael.

Ward: They’re gonna let me go.

Reiff: Let me finish, okay. There ain’t no gettin’ out of it dude. You

can’t – emotion or not. You – you can’t shoot a little girl to death in the middle of

the day in front of a shit load of people and cameras everywhere and walk away

from it – you just can’t, okay? This is a uh – we’re past it. What’s the - where

we’re at now is you explaining your actions to minimize maybe your

responsibility and maybe to show that you’re human, explain your actions, okay?

Why did Michael fuckin’ fire into that park that day? Was he tryin’ to kill a little

girl? Was he tryin’ to kill a 4-6 Terror? Was he tryin’ to kill everybody? What

was it that he was tryin’ to do because nobody knows and I speculate all day long

what I think you were doin’, okay. You don’t want me doin’ that, you don’t want

Halloran doin’ it. You don’t (inaudible), you don’t Murray doin’ it, you don’t

want Stand doin’ it, okay. That’s the bottom line. We’re detectives. We’re here

– you know what I’m sayin’? We’re gonna get the truth out. Those people are

gonna judge you and they’re gonna make a decision on you what they see from

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you and what they hear for you and it fuckin’ comes after you’ve (inaudible) 12:54:30

when you’ve been seen on lineup, after lineup, after lineup, after lineup, after

lineup and they’re takin’ your picture and you’re like, fuck! I knew I should have

said somethin’. I knew I should have said I was sorry or whatever it is you felt.

You can’t do that shit in four hours from now. No one is gonna buy that for shit.

That’s the act of a desperate man. Now’s the time to say it. Tells us what

happened, tell us what happened after the fact. Okay, take responsibility for it. I

don’t think it was supposed to happen and neither does he, but fuck it. You

wanna just go down as a Suwu who doesn’t – (inaudible) who doesn’t give a fuck

and likes to kill people. I know you don’t want to do that, so don’t do it and

maybe you can let the mom know what you’re – what you’re tellin’ us. That shit

will go along way for you, you understand me? Like he said, if mom was standin’

right there with tears in her eyes and she heard the words out of your mouth sayin’

that shit, or she knew from us tellin’ her. It would make a big difference.

Murphy: Sayin’ I’m sorry or --

Reiff: If that’s the fact.

Murphy: If that is in fact the truth.

Reiff: Unless you don’t care.

Murphy: This is an arrest report, right? You know who that is?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: You understand?

Murphy: So we’re not lyin’ – we’re not lyin’ to you we had – he’s here so I

mean.

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Ward: Ya’ll askin’ the same questions as me? 12:55:52

Muphy: Of course.

Ward: And he told ya’ll?

Murphy: Well we’re not just gonna get into what he said.

Ward: Yeah, we’re both fucked. He might as well, might as well.

Reiff: We know he didn’t pull the trigger and you did. So you know how that

usually goes, right? I can tell you one thing he ain’t sayin’. He ain’t sayin’ that

you were sorry about shit. Is that the way you want it – like I said, not only – not

only --

Murphy: You see --

Reiff: -- by you not sayin’ it he’s not sayin’ that you’re sorry about it.

Okay, so if you want to go down like that.

Murphy: I mean you’ve seen this in the media. You’ve had – I mean it’s

been – it’s been on national news.

Reiff: You (inaudible).

Murphy: And – and they’re gonna at some point they’re gonna see that

you’ve been arrested and you’re gonna part of that media story and they’re gonna

– and what are they gonna say? They’re gonna say, well – what – why did this

happen?

Ward: Is a Michelle Obama gonna come talk to me too?

Reiff: No, they don’t talk to you.

Murhpy: No, (inaudible).

12:56:49

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Ward: That be – that’s really fucked up though how this girl went to the

inauguration and shit --

Murphy: But there’s a rea --

Ward: -- and --

Reiff: You’re gettin’ off track.

Murphy: You’re gettin’ off track.

Ward: Hold on but watcha call it, no.

Reiff: All right.

Murphy: Just go ahead, go ahead.

Ward: ‘Cause this shit is crazy though ‘cause --

Murphy: It got blown up.

Ward: It’s fucked up though ‘cause that girl was never supposed to been

there but ya’ll look at it as like she was out there tryin’ to stand there – (inaudible)

waiting on the bus stop ‘cause it was rainin’.

Reiff: So what do you mean?

Murphy: What do you think?

Ward: Well what – when it ain’t.

Reiff: Well tell me what it is?

Ward: ‘Cause it was Woodlawn around there --

Reiff : It was what?

Ward: -- and she was out there with Woodlawn.

Reiff: So there - there was Woodlawn in the park when this happened?

12:57:25

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Ward: She was out there (inaudible) - she was out there with them

niggers.

Reiff: You talkin’ about the terror town guys.

Ward: Yeah, she was out there with them.

Reiff: Then tell us what was goin’ through your mind then when you saw

these guys. Who do you know that was there? What terror town guys were

there? Do you know any of them by name? Nicknames? How do you know

there were Woodlawn guys then?

Ward: Dam I feel a lot better – you what – can I speak to my mother?

Just one time – one time, I just need to talk to her and get a lot off my chest.

Reiff: You - you can talk to your mom at some point, okay, but we’re –

we’re talkin’, all right.

Murphy: It’s – it’s not gonna be right away, but you will be able – I c – I’ll –

we can get to you – speak to your mom.

Reiff: You want to get a lot of your chest with your mom, is that what

you’re sayin’? All right, we can do that, all right, but not – not right now. Okay,

you’re in some point we’ll talk to Halloran and those guys.

Ward: Hurt – my heart hurt now and it’s hard --

Reiff: Well --

Ward: -- for me to say ‘cause I really --

Reiff: Now is the time to tell us. Are you – how old are you man?

Ward: Eighteen.

12:58:16

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Reiff: All right, you’re grown man now. You’re young, but you’re a

grown man, okay.

Murphy: You know I mean, how do you know that – how do you know

there’s Wood lawn guys out there? You – I mean you obviously ‘cause you guys

go back and forth for a long – a long time frame. So you recognize --

Ward: I use to hang with them.

Reiff: You use to hang with them?

Ward: We was all together at that point of time and they killed

(inaudible).

Reiff: Were you in the same – you guys were like – you’s guys were all

GD, right?

Ward: No, we all went to the same grammar school.

Reiff: Well Woodlawn – Terror town, right? Same thing? GD’s right?

Suwu – GD’s.

Ward: No, Suwu most.

Reiff: Most okay, all right. You guys all went to the same school? What

school?

Ward: We started at Jackie Robinson. I transferred – well they made us

transfer to Price ‘cause Price was gonna get closed and we was already in two of

them when – ‘cause our daddie’s was into with Woodlawn.

Reiff: You’re daddie’s were? So it’s been goin’ on for a long time, all

right.

12:58:14

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Ward: And so she – after that we squashed it with their goof eyes but they

got on some other shit and killed one of the guys on Cottage.

Reiff: When was this?

Ward: About 2010.

Reiff: And that’s what got it all fired up again?

Ward: That’s when guns came into the situation ‘cause once they killed

Jamaini on Cottage there was no goin’ back.

Reiff: And then what – and then Terrice?

Ward: That took us over there. That was his cousin.

Reiff: Right, and Terrice fought back, right?

Ward: No, (inaudible) Terrice with uh – 40th walked up --

Reiff: Well that’s debate --

Ward: -- to the car.

Reiff: That’s debatable, but yeah.

Ward: Yeah, 40 walked up on they park with cannons and they was like,

shit, we’re gonna kill one ya’ll like we killed Jamani. So we lookin’ like, dam,

why everybody tryin’ get on there with us.

Reiff: Right.

Ward: And so I’m like, dam motherfuckers ain’t finna keep standin’ for

this ‘cause they think we some straight bitches like – the roaded up on every day

with a gun. Like they sit on Lake – there’s police that sit on Lake Park every day.

Murphy: Hmm-hmm.

13:00:04

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Ward: One of our guys seemed to get killed on Lake Park by the same

niggars, and this niggar got seven years for that shit - seven motherfuckin’ years.

Reiff: Which case?

Ward: For Dewan Jackson ‘cause he told and he got seven years. I’m –

this a bitch. How the fuck he get seven years ‘cause he a juvenile? That’s fucked

up.

Reiff: That’s already been – he’s already done – the sentence?

Ward: He done.

Reiff: That happened in September, right?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: You sure about that?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: What he – what he plea?

Ward: He told.

Reiff: Oh.

Murphy: He told (inaudible) told a cop.

Ward: Yep, ‘cause he pulled up in the car on Lake Park while we was all

out there --

Murphy: Hmm-hmm.

Ward: -- sittin’ at our own vehicles. As soon as the police pull off – the

detective unit. As soon as they pull off – after fuckin’ with us from standin’

outside all day, me and (inaudible). Can’t go in our park no more, they shut the

park down. He say we cannot stand in the park no more because it’s – it’s too

108
many of us to be standin’ in the park when there is kids out there. I’m, dam, what 13:00:59

that got to do with us so they move us and have us standin’ on the corner all day

and I’m like, dam, so then everybody should go in the house now. Everybody

should go in the house.

Murphy: So was that – was that --

Ward: No --

Murphy: -- I mean was this the final straw then or?

Ward: That was the final straw. It was over with. Once they killed

Dewan Jackson that took my heart away. Like why would they do that? That

was my whole little brother. We group like this (indicating). From the 6th floor

to the 8th floor. I loved that boy and they killed him. They shot him in the head.

Reiff: Budda.

Ward: Right there in front of me.

Reiff: Budda.

Ward: That little boy, Budda, killed him in front of me. That shit hurted –

hurted me to a point where everybody had to go, but not that girl though. That

girl had nothin’ to do with it. She was just there. She got shot, shit (inaudible)

but like, dam. (Inaudible) Dalfo, Diandre – all then niggars where out there

though.

Reiff: In the park.

Ward: -- and she didn’t – she – they threw that (inaudible) – they threw

her in the way. That’s what’s fucked up. They threw her in the way?

Reiff : What? Like they were tryin’ to shield themselves?

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Ward: Yeah, they threw her in the way. 13:02:09

Murphy: (Inaudible) So where – where were you?

Ward: I was drivin’.

Reiff: Well you were drivin’ initially but then what?

Ward: Shit, then Kenny went over there --

Murphy: He drove over there?

Ward: -- (inaudible) do it.

Reiff: Say it again?

Murphy: What?

Ward: He ain’t wanna do it.

Reiff: Okay, we did he want – why didn’t Kenny want to do it?

Ward: Because he said he got shot and his arms fucked up and he ain’t

wanna do it.

Reiff: Was there another reason why he said he wouldn’t do it? Was he

afraid of somethin’?

Murphy: You want another one?

Ward: Please.

Murphy: All right, we’ll get it for you.

Ward: And it was just fucked up.

Reiff: What was Kenny afraid of besides the fact his arm hurt? What he

afraid somebody would recognize him? I mean just – just come out with it, dude.

You know what I’m sayin’? Ain’t no reason to hold back somethin’ dumb like

that.

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Ward: He -- 13:03:04

Reiff: You’re in this predicament because of that, right?

Ward: I ain’t wanna do it.

Murphy: You didn’t wanna – you didn’t want to do it? Why? Were you–

you scared (inaudible) or?

Ward: I ain’t wanna do it. I told them niggars I ain’t wanna do it and he

was talkin’ about some – a motherfucker is gonna do it to you if you don’t want to

do it and I’m like, dam, why I got to do it for you, man. I was gonna wack your

goof ass – he didn’t wanna do it (audible sound).

Murphy: I know (audible sound).

Reiff: It’s fucked up man.

Murphy: You made a mistake, okay. Is that what it was?

Ward: I didn’t even want to do it. I (inaudible) and I’m like, dam --

Reiff: This is the shit I’m talkin’ about, okay. This is it – this is a kid

who gives a fuck, all right. You’re not a harden fuckin’ criminal. You’re not a

killer.

Ward: I didn’t want to do that shit, man. I liked it that girl --

Murphy: (Inaudible)

Ward: -- and he wouldn’t do that shit. Them bitch as niggars man – they

some bitches. And they gonna take (inaudible) and then (inaudible). Put girls in

they way and get scared and run but then come back – and then they came back

the same day.

Reiff: They came back at you.

111
Ward: They came back the same day. They – on the same day they came 13:04:10

down there five car swol. Try to shoot us down broad daylight and go why you

do shit about it? What the fuck we supposed to do and then I – I leave with – I

leave, we goin’ south (inaudible). I did go and get my little brother and I dropped

him off and I’m like, yeah, we finna go to Alvin crib. We see Kenny right there.

Man, these little niggars just went in the hood so we’re all go in the hood. I’m

like, dam.

Reiff: Slow down (inaudible).

Murphy: (Inaudible), slow down.

Ward: I’m with Kenny.

Reiff: Who’s car?

Ward : My mothers.

Reiff: The Nissan, the Sentra?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: So it’s just you and Kenny now?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: Who’s got the gun?

Ward: Kenny.

Reiff: What kind of gun is it? Come on, no bullshit. What kind of gun is

it?

Ward: I don’t know what kind of gun it is.

Reiff: It is it an automatic? Is it a revolver?

Ward: (Inaudible).

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Reiff: (Inaudible). 13:05:09

Ward: (Inaudible) nice little gun.

Reiff: Say it again.

Ward: I don’t even know what kind of gun it is.

Reiff: What color was it?

Ward: Black.

Reiff: Black – you knew – you have to know if it’s a – like is it a cowboy

gun – revolver or is it –

Ward: One of them --

Murphy: It’s got – it had a wheel on it? Or did it have a – when you – when

you shot it something would jump out? Do you remember?

Detective: Did it look like this? Or did it have the (inaudible) like a --

Ward: It wasn’t like that and it wasn’t the – I knew a revolver. It wasn’t a

revolver.

Reiff: It was not a revolver is that what you’re sayin’?

Ward: (Inaudible) revolver.

Reiff: So he brought the gun. Is that his gun? Is that with gun he --

Ward: No, that was the gun anybody had.

Reiff: So it’s like wh – Suwu, the Suwu gun?

Ward: No, it was – it was a loaner. I don’ t know where he got – I ain’t

gonna lie to you. I don’t know where he got the gun from. I just know I was told

if you don’t do this, this is what’s gonna happen?

Reiff: Who told you that?

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Ward: Kenny. 13:06:00

Reiff: And what’d he say what was gonna happen if you didn’t do it.

Ward: I was dead.

Reiff: He was gonna kill you?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: Or somebody else was gonna kill you?

Ward: Some – no, they was a – it was – it was a – it was that word. Like

you know the word – where you get the word like (inaudible).

Reiff: What was the word? You got to tell us (inaudible).

Ward: (Inaudible) fucked if you don’t do it.

Reiff: So you’re fucked if you don’t do it.

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: All right, so go – so let’s back up now. You’ve – you had the – you

dropped – you picked up your brother, that wasn’t bullshit? Which brother?

Ward: My little brother Armand.

Reiff: Armand from school?

Ward: Yes.

Reiff: What time?

Ward: At two.

Reiff: Two o’clock. What’s school?

Ward: Get out at two fifteen at Hyde Park.

Reiff: So you pick him up at two o’clock.

13:06:41

114
Ward: But he got out early so they got – I got him a two and when we

picked him up we went down to Alvin crib.

Reiff: So who’s in the car? You and Kenny?

Ward: No, it’s me and my little brother.

Reiff: Just the two of you.

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: So you drop – what do you (inaudible).

Ward: And me mother told me to go get my other little brother at three

forty-five. I’m like, dam, okay. I ain’t never – he ain’t never want to do it. I’m

like, no, screw that. It’s rainin’ outside. We ain’t on none of that. I’m not the

type of person that’s gonna go and shoot somebody. Hey, they try to prey on me

‘cause I’m the littlest.

Reiff: So --

Ward: So I’m like dang, what ya’ll want and they man, go keep – man,

we got to go kill again (inaudible).

Reiff: Well slow down, you’re jumpin’ ahead though. It’s just you and

your little brother in the car.

Ward: (Inaudible) yeah.

Reiff: So what do you --

Ward: My other brother had nothin’ to do with it.

Reiff: W – okay, so what do (inaudible).

Ward: (Inaudible) we ridin down and we end up seein’ Kenny right

before we get to Alvin crib --

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 13:07:22
Reiff: Okay.

Ward: -- and – and we pick Kenny up

Reiff: So where’s Kenny at?

Ward: (Inaudible) I’m like, Kenny, whatcha’ on, bro. I’m like, dam, he

was like, man, I ain’t on nothin’. Let’s go in the hood real quick. So I’m like, all

right, hold on let me drop my little brother off at Alvin crib real quick.

Reiff: So you drop off your little brother at Alvin’s crib. What’s Alvin’s

last name?

Ward: Thompson.

Reiff: Alvin Thompson’s house. Why drop him off there?

Ward: ‘Cause that’s where we were supposed to go but I’m not knowin’

none of this shit. I’m not knownin’ was – what the fuck goin’ on. I’m like,

a’ight, let’s go, come on, a’ight, ‘cause it’s my hood so you feel me? I’m uh –

I’m all right, let me drop my little brother off real quick ‘cause he wanted to go

over there to go see one of his – one – Antonio Car, he on house arrest so he go

see him and shit, drop him off. He, come on (inaudible) let’s go in the hood real

quick. We go in the hood. We sittin’ out there. It’s like five cars pull up.

Woodlawn bitch, what’s up? They get to blown dam. You know how – not –

nobody at our street, nobody came to Lake Park after that shit, now. We

(inaudible) I’m like a’ight.

Reiff: Whoa, whoa, slow down.

Murphy: Slow down a little bit.

13:08:17

116
Reiff: All right so you’re – you drop off your brother at Alvin’s house to

see Antwon Car, is that right?

Ward: No, Antonio Car.

Reiff: Antonio Car. Now he’s gone, he’s at – he’s at Alvin’s house,

right? You’re drivin’ your – your Nissan Al – Sentra and Kenny is in the front

passenger seat? You – does Ken – you see Kenny with the gun now, right? At

what point do you see Kenny with the gun?

Ward: When we – when we - soon after that shit happened --

Reiff: All right, let’s – let’s talk about what you just said happens. I got

– you confuse me. What happened – you dropped your little brother off and

there’s a confrontation?

Ward: No, it’s a con – after we get on Lake Park and we drop him off

42nd - take 39th straight down.

Reiff: Where was Alvin’s house? I’m sorry.

Ward: 42nd and Indiana.

Reiff: So you leave 42nd to Indiana and now we’re – which direction –

we – where you go to?

Ward: Down Indiana.

Murphy: You got towards 39th? Okay, you get 39th and then what?

Ward: We get on Lake Park. We go up Cottage, turn – go around the li –

the track right there.

Reiff: Hmm-hmm.

13:09:08

117
Ward: Take down Ellis and go up Lake Park. So we park in front of Lake

Park. Then we switch, we get in the car. I’m like a’ight. Well finna --

Murphy: What’s – what’s he sayin’ to you at this point? I mean what’s

(inaudible).

Reiff: Yeah.

Ward: (Inaudible) sayin’ yet ‘cause it – there wasn’t nothin’ happenin’.

Reiff: Yeah, but - but you switched for a reason.

Ward: No we ain’t --

Reiff: That’s what we’re sayin’.

Ward: I jumped the gun like we ain’t switched just yet.

Reiff: All right.

Ward: We – I’m – we pull up (inaudible) yeah. He – we sittin’ out there

talkin’, hollerin’. I’m like, oh yeah, whatcha’ all on? Niggars like man, shit, we

ain’t on nothin’ . Then we see a car hit the block. We - oh, who the fuck is that?

It’s like four niggers with dreads in the car. I’m like, oh, one is Woodlawn, boy.

That’s a little Adolfo and them (inaudible).

Reiff: Adolfo and them?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: In what car?

Ward: In like a – a black truck, jeep.

Reiff: A black jeep truck?

Ward: Yeah.

13:09:54

118
Reiff: So they roll pass you guys on Lake Park. Are you guys by 39th

and Lake Park?

Ward: Yeah.

Reiff: All right, so now you just still – you and Kenny (inaudible).

Ward: It’s just them. Now they hit Lake shore drive. It look like they

come back around. Like he on that car and then like three more cars come

through. I’m – dam, hold on. They only (inaudible) then we hear shots but I’m

– oh, they – but they not blown at us (inaudible).

Reiff: Wait a minute so – so – so (inaudible) you say you hear gun shots?

Ward: Yeah, it was gun shot (inaudible).

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: So I’m like, dam they just blew at the guys down there by 3939.

But then I’m like --

Murphy: But you – you like heard that? You didn’t see that, right?

Ward: Yeah, no.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: We see then blowin’ but you figure it ain’t (inaudible).

Murphy: Oh, we wanna – I wanna get this story straight - clear.

Reiff: You both have (inaudible).

Ward: Yeah, I don’t know who’s blown out the --

Reiff: Right.

Ward: -- car but I know it was Woodlawn.

Reiff: You assumed it was them.

119
Ward: Yeah, no, we knew it was Woodlawn, but I don’t who was blowin’ 13:10:32

directly out the car. I’m like (inaudible).

Reiff: Right, right, which car? The jeep?

Ward: Yeah, so we leave and then they got a van too.

Reiff: So they got a jeep, a van, a what – and another car?

Ward: Yeah, and another car. I don’t know what kind of car it was but

(inaudible).

Reiff: Three cars?

Ward: Yeah, and they got a jeep, a van and uh – a little green car.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: And then they ride off and I’m like, a’ight. He was like, man,

screw the niggars who blew at the guys. Come on we gone. I was like a’ight we

gone. So we go up Ellis and shit. He turned down this way. I’m like, a’ight, we

turn down this way. Now, we don’t see they ass so we turn and where they all be

at we see them. You know Kenny see them. Kenny say, there they go, right there

(inaudible). I’m, a’ight, what you – what the fuck you (inaudible).

Reiff: Are you drivin’?

Ward: I’m drivin’.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: He – what you finna do? I’m, what the fuck you (inaudible)?

What you mean? He act like we got a cannon.

Murphy: Wait Kenny, Kenny is sayin’ to you, what you fittin’ to do?

Ward: No, he – I’m sayin’ --

120
Murphy: Or you’re sayin’ that to him? 13:11:25

Ward: I’m – boy you act like – okay we see --

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: -- these niggers. What the fuck you finna do? He, shit, I got it on

me.

Reiff: So he said I got it on me.

Ward: Yeah, I’m like dam, (inaudible).

Reiff: What does that mean? What does that mean to you?

Ward: He got cannon.

Reiff: Sounds like a gun.

Ward: I’m like, dam.

Reiff: He’s got a cannon, he’s got a gun.

Ward: Yeah, so I’m like oh, okay. So we was goin’ --

Murphy: You said this is my mom’s car.

Ward: So I told him G --

Murphy: (Inaudible).

Ward: -- G, this is my – I’m like, well this is my own G, car boy. I ain’t

on none of that shit. He was like, no man – (inaudible) boy they killed Dawan.

Boy, and that shit he really (inaudible) back in my head like (audible sound).

Reiff: So now what?

Ward: Fuck it, we go around. I’m like, a’ight. We see him deep as shit

in that park. Wasn’t just no King kids. They was deep as fuck in that park. Like

13:12:11

121
thirty of they ass out there. I’m, dam, and then as we comin’ up we see Zack –

light – real light skin – Zac from Woodlawn.

Reiff: Is he – is he a Terror.

Ward: Yeah, he 4-6 Terror but he go to University.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: All them little shorties ain’t Woodlawn but they Woodlawn, you

feel me? They all knew – knew .

Reiff: They hang out there.

Ward: They all knew niggers that come over there --

Reiff: Right.

Ward: -- and they just – like little Budda was a new nigger that killed

Dawan. Nobody knew shorty (inaudible) then he came through and killed one of

the guys. (Inaudible), but we know him now. We did our homework.

Reiff: Right.

Ward: We know all them shorties now. So I’m like, dam, man a

motherfuckers need to just go ahead and just stop this shit screw it and they like,

no (inaudible), you – you act like you ain’t with it. I’m like, (inaudible) with all

shit he – we got to do this shit like. (inaudible). So we go (inaudible) he man

either you gonna do it or we gonna do it to you. I’m like, what the fuck you

supposed to me by that? (Inaudible).

Reiff: So he – so he says what – you’re either gonna do it or we’re gonna

do it to you? Okay.

13:13:07

122
Ward: And then he passed me the gun. I’m like (inaudible). I should

have killed his ass right now so I ain’t gotta do shit.

Reiff: Are you still drivin’ at this point?

Ward: Yeah, - no, we done parked and everything.

Reiff: Where’d you park at when this happened?

Ward: That’s what I’m sayin’ like I don’t know how ya’ll got on the side

of Greenwood and jumpin’ the fence. I’m – no, I --

Reiff: Dude, don’t worry about what we have --

Ward: I ain’t (inaudible) none of that shit.

Reiff: -- and tell us the truth, you know what I’m sayin’.

Ward: Motherfuckers pull up on the side, park. I get out.

Reiff: Where is this happenin’? What block.

Ward: This happenin’ on – what’s this? The (inaudible) Greenwood.

Reiff: Greenwood and what? How far south?

Ward: 45th.

Reiff: So you park the car 45th and Greenwood. He tells you – make

sure I got this right. You either do it or we’re gonna do you? Is that what you

said? And then he hands you the gun? All right, but I don’t want to put words in

your mouth. Tell me --

Ward: Yes.

Reiff: Then what happens then? Are you- you’re still in the driver’s seat?

Ward: Hmm – yeah, we park and we got –

Reiff: So what happened when he got out?

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Ward: He gave me the gun. 13:14:03

Reiff: Gave it outside of the car? Okay, then you get inside of the car?

Or do you get back in?

Ward: I walked around.

Reiff: And got in were? Did you ever get back in the car at all? Just go

and do the deal? Where did he go?

Ward: He got in the driver’s seat.

Reiff: All right, so tell us when you walked out? How far did you have to

walk?

Ward: Not far, just walk around and I seent all of it.

Reiff: All right, so when you walked up was there – by – by the park,

where did you stop?

Ward: I ain’t--

Reiff: Was there a fence there?

Ward: I ain’t need get close to the fence.

Reiff: All right, so what – who’d you see? What- before you shot?

Ward: I seen Zac.

Reiff: Zac who you think is – or you know to be – I’m sorry –

Ward: He’s with Woodlawn.

Reiff: -- he’s a terror. Who else?

Ward: And like four other boys and it was like they separate from the

crowd.

Reiff: Okay.

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Ward: They separate; they act like – in the back of the park -- 13:14:49

Reiff: Right.

Ward: -- is where they got shot at but as they runnin’ off they – they grab

a girl and they threw her in front and she got shot.

Reiff: (Inaudible) slow down I don’t wanna miss somethin’ all right, -

this important. So you come up with the pistol. You say anything? Does

anybody say anything to you? You start firing. What was your intention? To

shoot Zac and anybody that was with him? I mean I’m askin’ you (inaudible).

Ward: Exactly --

Reiff: Just --

Ward: -- exactly who I saw.

Reiff: You were tryin’ to shoot Zac, okay. How many times did you

fire the gun?

Ward: Six.

Reiff: Six times? Was the gun empty?

Ward: I don’t know.

Reiff: All right, so you fire six shots towards Zac who was – you said

was with a group of other four dudes that was a – separated from the group. Now

what’s this thing about the – throwin’ the girl in front of him. Did you see that or

you just thinkin’ that happened?

Ward: No, I saw it. He tossed her ass.

Reiff: Who did?

Ward: Zac, he tossed her.

125
Reiff: Well show us how he did it? 13:15:47

Murphy: (Inaudible) stand up. We’re – we’re – so you’re over here

(indicating).

Ward: I’m over here. (indicating).

Murphy: You’re Zac.

Ward: I’m Zac and this is – and it’s like is about – there is many people

standin’ with Zac and he facin’ me.

Murphy: (Inaudible).

Ward: And (inaudible) he – (indicating) --

Murphy: So he saw it comin’?

Ward: -- turned. Then nobody see me. That’s the – that’s the (inaudible).

That’s why I’m like --

Reiff: -- snuck up on.

Ward: That’s why I’m like they can possibly see my face ‘cause --

Reiff: Hold on, finish --

Ward: -- nobody saw me.

Reiff: -- finish showin’.

Murphy: So – so Zac turns and then does what? Where – how does he –

how does he (inaudible).

Ward: He runs – as he runnin’ he grabs her. She like in the way as he

runnin’. He grabbed her just like this (indicating) and he tossed her that way and

he got to runnin’ as I’m blowin’ at him and she got shot.

13:16:17

126
Reiff: So you let six go – six shots and then what – you run back to the

car? Toss (inaudible) at that point what happens then?

Ward: He drove off.

Reiff: What --

Murphy: Did you --

Reiff: Go ahead.

Murphy: Did you see her fall to the ground after – did you know that you

had shot her at that point?

Reiff: Did you know you hit anybody at that point?

ENDS (13:16:50)

Disk 3

File 4

Segment (13:16:54 to 13:34:05)

Reiff: Okay, so you take off. You get in the car. Which way you guys

goin’?

Ward: We went down Lake Park.

Reiff: Back towards 39?

Ward: (Indicating).

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: But we never went in Lake Park, though. We went towards 39 –

we didn’t go (inaudible) we stopped it was like on 42nd - like on 42nd we went

down.

Reiff: Okay --

127
Ward: and we left – 13:17:19

Reiff: 42nd --

Ward: -- and I dropped Kenny off and then (inaudible).

Reiff: You’re forgetin’ – forgettin’ somethin’.

Ward: What?

Reiff: You picked – you picked a couple guys up.

Ward: No, that ain’t happen yet.

Reiff: Okay, I’m sorry.

Ward: That ain’t even happen yet – and we leave and I’m like, (inaudible)

what the – what the fuck was all this about, bro? Now what if we get caught?

What if somethin’ happen? What if I lose my life for this shit ‘cause ya’ll wanted

to kill me for I do it. He, man – shit, it is what it is bro. I’m, no, no.

Murpy: So at that point you didn’t know if you hit anybody at all at that

point?

Ward: Nobody knew.

Reiff: You just shot --

Ward: Nobody knew, nobody expected that girl to die, none of that.

Reiff: So where did you – where did you (inaudible).

Ward: We didn’t even know she was even from King ‘cause we’re – King

kids – ‘cause Kenny use to go to King and they know they ain’t supposed to be in

park.

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Ward: They know they wasn’t.

128
Murphy: So after you say that – or after you say that to him what -- you 13:18:05

guys continue driving? Where – where do you go?

Ward: We went to – went back to Alvin crib.

Reiff: Alvin’s crib?

Ward: We ain’t never went in though. We sat there for --

Murphy: You --

Ward: -- a second.

Murphy: Out in front?

Ward: Yeah --

Reiff: Who --

Ward: -- and I’m sitting there --.

Reiff: -- who was drivin’ the car?

Ward: -- in car and that shit -- Nick (inaudible). I mean not Nick – I’m

talkin’ about Nick – uh, Kenny ass.

Reiff: Kenny still drivin’. You were crying?

Murphy: Okay.

Reiff: Let me just ask you a question. If you didn’t know anybody was

shot why were you crying?

Ward: Because I didn’t wanna do it.

Reiff: You were just upset about the fact that he made you do it?

Ward: I didn’t want to do it at all

Reiff: Okay, so then what happens next?

Ward: Shit we drive off. Pick up Ernest and Demetrius --

129
Reiff: Okay. 13:18:47

Ward: -- and drop them off at the house.

Reiff: Where’s that at now? You guys stop over at --

Ward: We’re stopped at Oakwood. Dropped Ernest off and then – ‘cause

we need – we saw them at the green line ridin’ down back off Indiana --

Reiff: Right

Ward: -- and picked them – well they say, we – we all goin’ (inaudible).

This nigger Kenny get to tellin’ everybody like some type of goofy. I’m wow!.

Reiff: He start runnin’ his mouth.

Ward: Yeah and I’m oohhh.

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Ward: He was tryin’ to get me in a jam, boy.

Reiff: Right.

Ward: Fuck you gonna make somebody do some shit and then try to tell.

Get to tellin’ them and now they tellin’ the – the whole hood. They tellin’

everybody – I’m ---

Reiff: Now (inaudible) let get back up. So after you guys – you – after

you do this you’re back in the car. You guys head to Alvin’s house. Is that right?

And then Alvin lives in what – what – 40 --

Ward: 42nd.

Reiff: -- and?

Ward: Indiana.

13:19:35

130
Reiff: So you go from the park after the shooting you go right to Alvin’s

house. You sure about that? You don’t stop anywhere? Alvin’s house. You sit

and talk in the car, you never get out? Nobody comes in the car? And then you

guys leave there and then which – what – what is your intention now. Where are

you drivin’ too?

Ward: We drove to – no, our intentions was – oh, we had to go – he had

to go get his book bag.

Reiff: Where was his book bag at?

Ward: His book bag was at another person – at another person uh – car.

Reiff: Cards house?

Murphy: No, car – someone else’s car?

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: Who’s car?

Ward: I don’t know who the fuck they was, he just got his book bag back

with his school shit in it.

Reiff: But did you guys stop and get the bag? Where at?

Ward: On – right before we pick Ernest and them up. The same – like

right before – like a good block before him. Like (inaudible).

Reiff: Did somebody let him in the car? Did they hand it to him?

Ward: No, they handed to him.

Reiff: Who’s the person to hand to him?

Ward: I don’t know him.

Reiff: A guy, a girl?

131
Ward: A girl and a dude. 13:20:31

Reiff: Two – a girl and a guy? Black, white?

Ward: Black.

Reiff: You don’t know who they were? Do you know what kind of car

they were in? You don’t know what block it was on?

Reiff: You do, you just don’t wannna --

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: -- you don’t want to get them involved. Is that with – with --

Ward: Huh?

Murphy: You do know what kind of car it is? You sure?

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Murphy: Hold on a minute, ‘cause are – are you catchin’ this (inaudible).

Reiff: Yeah, yeah (inaudible) like give their names.

Murphy: Are you afraid to give their names? Is that what the problem is?

‘Cause we can obviously tell that you know what kind of car it is. You pull up

next to the car. You’ve been great with all the detail and then till you get up to

this car and then you don’t know what kind of car it is. You don’t know who it is.

Reiff: Yeah, (inaudible) --

Murphy: You’ve been hang out with these guys for a long time. You knew

– you know who the people are.

Ward: Yeah, but I don’t know who they – I guess his family members or

somethin’.

Reiff: All right --

132
 13:21:14
Murphy: All right, so you have no idea.

Ward: They ain’t got nothin’ to do with it so --

Reiff: Right, so you leave from there. You said it – was it how far away

from there and did you run into uh – the other two guys.

Ward: The next block on 40th (inaudible).

Reiff: And what happened there?

Ward: (Inaudible) was on 39th. Literally on 39th and Indiana. They live

across the street from Rothchild – (Inaudible) and they was like, oh (inaudible)

ya’ll comin’ from. I’m shit – the motherfucker is ride and he –

Reiff: Right.

Ward: -- then he pick – he like, yeah, ya’ll need a ride? So he dropped

four of them up.

Reiff: All right, so they get in the car. Who gets in the car?

Ward: Demetrius and Ernest.

Reiff: Okay, now you guys have a conversation. Obviously you’re

talkin’ about what just happened, right? Don’t – don’t - don’t lie, you haven’t –

you’re tellin’ the truth now. Let it all hang. There’s a conversation in that car

about what happened, right? Right? Okay, tell us about that.

Ward: Wasn’t nothin’ really said. It was, man where ya’ll is comin from,

shit? Motherfuckers said do it to the Niggars. That was it, that’s all (inaudible).

Reiff: You don’t know what they said --

Murphy: You said what?

Ward: Do it to the niggars.

133
Reiff: Did you say where? You had to say somethin’ else then that. They 13:22:06

were gonna what, what? They – they would be asking a million questions

(inaudible) --

Ward: Naw, they – they already knew what it is.

Reiff: I know but they’re – I mean they’re gonna ask question.

Ward: No.

Reiff: I mean – all right, so what happens at that point? Where do you

guys go?

Ward: Shit, moments after they was like uh – still like – Ernest was like

enough said. That’s all you got to say.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: ‘Cause he was, you know (inaudible).

Reiff: You didn’t want to talk, you don’t wanna talk with him.

Ward: No, ‘cause he never knew --

Reiff: (inaudible)

Ward: -- what’s goin’ on. So he had enough said and then we pull off.

We drop off Er – we go to the gas station, get some gas on 35th.

Reiff: 35th and what?

Ward: King Drive.

Reiff: 35th and King? Okay, what gas station over there?

Murphy: I don’t know..

Reiff: All right.

13:22:39

134
Ward: So ya’ll (inaudible) BP – No, not BP. Uh – right down 35th King

drive.

Reiff: All right, who gets gas?

Ward: I do.

Reiff: You get out of the car to pump gas? How do you pay for it?

Ward: With money?

Reiff: Cash? All right --

Ward: (Inaudible).

Reiff: -- so you go inside the gas station and pay cash?

Murphy: How much?

Ward: Only ten dollars.

Reiff: All right, so then who – are they all in the car still? So what

happens when you get back in the car? Now, you are – are you drivin’ now or do

you get back into the – you’re still in the passenger’s seat, right? Okay, tell us

from there. What happens from there?

Ward: Then we pull up, we drop Ernest off. Go to Lake Park, I drop

Demitrius and Kenny off.

Reiff: So now you’re at 39th and Lake Park and you drop off Demitrius

and Kenny? Is that right? What about Ernest?

Ward: We’ve dropped – I said (inaudible). 1

Reiff: Oh, I’m sorry. You said all three? And then what do you do?

Ward: I went to pick my other brothers up (inaudible).

Reiff: So you got back in the driver’s seat and you drove off? Okay.

135
Murphy: What about the – I’m sorry, I missed the part – what – what about 13:23:32

the gun? I mean

Reiff: Yeah.

Murphy: Where --

Ward: No, I ain’t even never had a gun. I gave the gun back to him.

Reiff: I know --

Murphy: As soon as you got back into the car you gave it back to Kenny?

And then when – when did he – here did you drop him off at?

Ward: At the building.

Murphy: And he took it with him inside the building? Did he say – did he

ever tell you where he went or where it was?

Ward: No.

Murphy: Do you know where it is?

Ward: I’m pretty sure that gun about gone.

Murphy: All right, how do you know that?

Ward: ‘Cause ain’t nobody gonna keep no gun.

Murphy: No I under – I understand you (naudible)

Ward: I was (inaudible)

Murphy: -- but the thing (inaudible).

Ward: -- some news that bitch was gone.

Murphy: Right, okay.

Reiff: What – what about uh – after this? Who did you talk to about this?

Murphy: You had it (inaudible).

136
Reiff: I already know you talked to some people ‘cause we talk to ‘em 13:24:12

but yo – I mean, who did you tell about this?

Ward: I ain’t a tell a soul.

Reiff: So who was runnin’ his, mouth? Kenny? Just Kenny? You didn’t

tell anybody?

Ward: ‘Cause that’s not somethin’ uh – I would --

Reiff: I just don’t (inaudible).

Ward: -- brag and tell anybody about it.

Murphy: (Inaudible) yeah, yeah.

Reiff: We’re just askin’, all right.

Ward: And then she couldn’t have asked me like bro, what made you do it

out of all people. I’m shit --

Murphy: Who (inaudible) say that?

Ward: My brother?

Reiff: Stu? What’s his name?

Ward: Who?

Reiff: Who’s your brother?

Ward: Armand.

Reiff: Armand asked you why’d you do it? So you told Armand?

Ward: No, I ain’t tell Armand any --

Reiff: Then why would Armand ask you that?

Ward: ‘Cause my Armand (inaudible) my little brother – he – he know

what’s goin’ on.

137
Reiff: All right, so it – what – what did you say (inaudible). 13:24:51

Ward: But the word got around so quick he knew. I’m like he – dam, bro.

I know you ain’t do that shit.

Reiff: Okay.

Ward: I’m --

Reiff: All right (inaudible)

Ward: They forced me to do that shit, boy. They – (inaudible) go down,

shit.

Reiff: All right.

Murphy: So – let me ask you this.

Ward: I’m -- (inaudible) but.

Murphy: Let me ask you this. Okay, so there’s – in – in gangs that you have

a rank or somethin’, right? I mean you’re – you’re probably a – a lower guy, is

that right? And is – is Kenny considered higher then you? What’s you – what’s –

what’s – does he have title or somethin’ that’s – what’s he called?

Ward: One of the big guys.

Murphy: They just call him the big guy? Is that mean he – is there guys that

are higher then him? What are they called?

Ward: The big guys.

Murphy: That’s it and then (inaudible) I mean you just know that

(inaudible).

Ward: There’s the little guys --

13:25:40

138
Murphy: How – how do you differentiate who’s got – are you – just ‘cause

you’re young – younger? Is it (inaudible) based on age or is it based on

experience or – I mean can you be a higher rank then Kenny at some point? Or

will he always be higher then you? You know what I’m sayin’?

Ward: No, I don’t know about all that?

Reiff: Well just (inaudible) couple little more things.

Murphy: All right.

Reiff: So you guys are before it happens you and Kenny are in your

Mom’s car, you’re drivin’. You’re near 39th and Lake Park and this is when you

spot this jeep and then you said a van and then a green car – is that right? And

you said it was loaded with who you thought were or were who? Terror --

Ward: 4-6

Reiff: 4-6, you hear shots at some point, is that right? Now, I don’t want

to put words in your mouth but tell me. You said you didn’t see any gun. You

didn’t see anybody come out with any gun, but you heard shot – that’s correct?

Ward: Hmm.

Reiff: Okay, how – did you assume? Am I askin’ – saying that correct.

Do you assume shots came from those guys ‘cause who else would be shootin’ in

that area other then 4-6 – is that right? All right, you go to the park.

Ward: I didn’t go to the park.

Reiff: I – I’m talkin’ about after that. All right you guys in a parking.

You told us that Kenny basically --

Ward: No --

139
Reiff: -- forced to do -- 13:26:54

Ward: -- (inaudible) everything out.

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Ward: Everything out.

Reiff: From what you told me it’s Kenny’s idea. Is that right?

Ward: No – yeah. No, I was – you feel me? I ain’t – I ain’t wanna sit up

here and waste nobody time but bro I couldn’t - it’s – you know is you ain’t

supposed to say nothin’ when you get into these predicaments but it hurt and I

feel that I – I should never even been in this predicament. I should have never

been here.

Murphy: You probably shouldn’t have been --

Ward: -- it wouldn’t been -

Murphy: -- you right.

Ward: -- it wouldn’t have been me. Me (inaudible) don’t do none of this.

I’m not type of nigger to do any of this and I’m like dam, I (inaudible) made me

do that shit and then they tell me like, oh yeah, well it is what it is, shit

(inaudible). Man, you niggars gonna kill me? For really? Is ya’ll serious. I was

done fuckin’ with it. That’s why I even stopped goin’ to Lake Park. I’m like

Reiff: (Inaudible)

Murphy: There’s not a whole lot of loyalty in a gang is there. I mean, you

know because you don’t want to do somethin’ they’re gonna kill you?

Ward: And I wasn’t even never even part of that gang.

Murphy: Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

140
Ward: Like I’m not Suwu. I am Lake Park, were not Suwu. There’s no 13:27:46

tattoo (inaudible), none of that. I’m not Suwu. I don’t gang bang, it’s not what I

was raised to do.

Reiff: But is he --

Murphy: But you were upset --

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Murphy: You’re guy – you’re guy got hit, you’re --

Ward: Like (inaudible) wasn’t (inaudible). We wasn’t guys, we was – we

was almost brother like --

Murphy: Right.

Ward: -- if we (inaudible) we was blood we’d have been brother.

Reiff: We’re talkin’ about --

Ward: Dewan.

Reiff: Dewan who gets killed in September by Budda, right? And Budda

only does seven years and – from what you hear ‘cause he’s a juvi. Now, I’m

gonna ask you this uhm – you know I appreciate you being honest at this point. I

think you’re being pretty honest. I think there a few things you’re kind of tryin’

to help yourself a little bit with. One of the things I wanna ask you about is – wh

– this thing with Kenny basically forcing you to do it. It’s kind of what you’re

sayin’. All right, you’re not a kid anymore when you’re eighteen, okay. Kenny

did what he did and you did what you did. What you’re doin’ – what say by there

can affect what happens to him. I understand that if we would just went did what

he was supposed to do and it was his idea you wouldn’t have been the shooter, but

141
it’s the other way around. But if he didn’t do or say what he said then let’s get 13:28:53

that shit out right now. Don’t do shit to him that’s gonna fuck him up worse than

– you see what I’m sayin’? This is the part we go back to about being a man.

Don’t – don’t do that man. Don’t do that. If it that part didn’t happen, if you

were like – you do it because whatever, you’re avenging your friend gettin’ killed

in September or whatever. You told us you were there to shoot Zac, right?

Nobody else – you were firin’ shot at Zac, is that correct? We know Zac wasn’t

armed right? Nobody was armed, right.

Ward: Hmm.

Reiff: Well you didn’t see any guns. You didn’t see any guns, right?

Right? Okay.

Murphy: You (inaudible) just answer (inaudible).

Reiff: Just say yes when I say it.

Murphy: You know.

Reiff: Okay, you didn’t see any gu – okay so now you didn’t intend to

kill the girl. You were shootin’ Zac. You say Zac grabbed her, put her and put

her in front of here. You think that – you believe that’s why she got shot, is that

right? Okay, what I’m tellin’ you is if that shit didn’t happen about – ‘cause that’s

not real believable about how he basically forced you and you felt (inaudible)

come on, you know.

Ward: No, that’s what I’m sayin’ he said it in words like I understand

(inaudible).

Reiff: (Inaudible).

142
Ward: (inaudible) of his mouth. He – he – it’s like this he, man screw 13:30:00

that. You know what time it is if you don’t do it.

Reiff: You know what time it is (inaudible) do it.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Reiff: And what did that mean to you, honestly – no bullshit.

Ward: Honestly to me that meansyou know what you gonna get when you

come back from that shit (inaudible).

Reiff: And what did you think (Inaudible).

Murphy: What – what (inaudible) what would that be?

Reiff: An ass kickin’ --

Ward: To me from what I know and how I was raised and what I seen as I

was comin’ up – means death. Ain’t no gettin’ around that. You will die and I

done seen that happen to a lot of people – Peeski, Big Al, all of them. I’m not – I

ain’t (inaudible).

Reiff: All right, well let’s go back to the gun because – well that’s a –

that’s the truth, that’s the truth, okay. The gun, I don’t believe you don’t know

who’s gun it was and what kind of gun it was. That’s not believable. Okay, you

probably know guns better then I know guns, okay. I know you know whether it

was a revolver or whether it was and automatic and I know you know who’s gun

it was and where the gun was before that and what (inaudible) and where the gun

is now.

Murphy: You have enough --

Reiff: I --

143
Murphy: -- experience. You know all the – you just said yourself, you know 13:30:58

all these guys and why – what – you know the inner workings of the gang and all

that shit and you know why when shootings occur. What – you know what a gun

is and what (inaudible) look like. That’s why – that’s why he’s sayin’ it’s not

very believable.

Reiff: So we’re sayin’ --

Ward: (Inaudible) I’m ho - I’m honestly don’t know what type of gun it

was, I really don’t.

Murphy: But you know what – do you know what there’s types of guns.

What – you know what types do you know?

Ward: I know --

Murphy: You’ve seen a gun before?

Ward: I know 38’s --

Murphy: (Inaudible).

Ward: -- 9’s – Smith and Westerns – a AK – a SK --

Reiff: Right.

Murphy: An AK is what?

Ward: An AK is a fully automatic.

Murphy: And an SK is what?

Ward: A semi-automatic.

Murphy: Right, and now is an SK like a revolver or an AK like a revolver?

Ward: No.

13:31:42

144
Murphy: That’s what I’m sayin’. Is that you know you’re educated enough

to know the differences between those guns. So when he hands you a gun it’s not

an AK, right?

Ward: No.

Murphy: Okay, it’s not an SK?

Ward: But wasn’t a revolver though. It was --

Murphy: Was it a black gun? Was it a silver gun? Was it a gun – it’s not a

gun that has a revolver, okay. So when you shoot it what happens?

Reiff: Shell case.

Murphy: Shell casing comes out, yes?

Ward: I didn’t see no shell cases.

Reiff: You didn’t see any come out?

Murphy: What is it – is it like squareish? You – could you draw it? You

don’t know – you don’t understand what I’m sayin’? This is – this is – this is the

– the point we’re ---

Reiff: Yeah, we want --

Murphy: You’re educated enough. You know – you’ve been on the street

long enough to know the game. You know what a gun is, you know – you know

the differences between the guns, you know what I’m sayin’?

Ward: No, I don’t’ what gun it was though.

Reiff: All right, you know where that gun is now? So if we – if we get

information at some point where you did know where the gun is that’s gonna hurt

you, you know what I’m sayin’? So if you know where the guns at now or who

145
has the gun, or what happened to the gun – anything like that, you got to tell 13:32:44

us.now. So that way it doesn’t look like you were tryin’ to hide the gun or you

were part of hiding the gun. All right, nothin’?

Murphy: All right, you – you done with all this food?

Ward: I can --

Reiff: Well eat.

Murphy: Eat it – yeah.

Ward: I’ll try to eat it, but --

Murphy: All right.

Reiff: (Inaudible) do you wanna (inaudible).

Murphy: (Inaudible) or you’re good?

Reiff: Yeah, well take a – now you can relax, all right. The truth’s out.

Eat your food and then we’ll come back in a little while if you – you need

somethin’ right now? What do you want?

Ward: Can I get like two cigarettes. That really did me so I’m a need

some.

Murphy: Yeah.

Reiff: All right.

Murphy: We’re gonna get you a cigarette.

Reiff: Sit tight.

Ward: Excuse me --

Reiff: (Inaudible).

Ward: -- I got a question.

146
Reiff: What? 13:33:20

Ward: What happens from here?

Reiff: All right, you’re gonna be standin’ in a bunch of lineups in a – you

know, in a few hours probably – a lot.

Ward: Will I be in a line up with Kenny?

Reiff: No, separate lineups. Okay, here’s here, he’s gonna be standin’ in

his own line ups, all right?

Ward: But if they (inaudible) they’ll point me out?

Reiff: What do you mean? Say that again.

Ward: ‘Cause --

Reiff: You’ve already been identified, dude, from the pictures.

Murphy: You would – you wouldn’t be here if you weren’t --

Reiff: Yeah.

Ward: -- identified yet.

Murphy: Oh.

Reiff: You’re just gonna be here (inaudible).

Murphy: You know what I’m sayin’?

Reiff: -- with everybody that was out there and including people who

were – you know, down the block in the alley. All the places are gonna be

identified. They’re gonna be lookin’ at you in linups, all right. Anything else?

You good?

Murphy: You have a pen?

Reiff: Just relax dude, all right.

147
Ward : You get then cigarettes? 14:04:00

Murphy: Yeah, (inaudible) did.

Ward: This shit is like – this shit is crazy.

ENDS (13:34:05)

Disk 3

File 4

Segment (14:03:00 to 14:08:35)

Murphy: What’s up?

Ward: I have to use the bathroom bad.

Murphy: All right, hold on one second, all right. You want smoke this?

You gotta - one or two?

Ward: Pee.

Murphy: All right, hold on. I got to grab somebody else if you really got to

go to the bathroom. You want – you want this now? You w – so how bad you

got to go to the bathroom?

Ward: All right, pee bad but I’ll take this right now.

Murphy: All right, take (inaudible) give me a couple of minutes. Is that his

garbage?

Ward: No, I still got food.

Murphy: Okay, you’re cool, you’re straight.

Ward: Hmm.

Murphy: I got --

Ward: (Inaudible).

148
Murphy: All right, I’ll be right back, all right. 14:04:21

Murphy: (Inaudible) all right, just put the – put the smoke right in there.

You don’t have to put it out. Just – just leave it on the edge. You’re gonna be

back in a minute, right?

Ward: It’ll burn out.

Murphy: Oh, all right. Just walk with your hands behind your back, all

right?

Michael Ward leaves the room at14:04:32

Michael Ward returns to the room at 14:06:04

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: All right, have a seat, have seat.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Murphy: All right. Just suck on that if you want.

Ward: Huh? You heard me dog?

Murphy3: All right, just have a seat man. We’ll be right back with

(inaudible).

Ward: All right.

Ward: I ain’t goin’ to jail, I’m not goin’ to jail.

Ward: (Inaudible) ‘cause it’s that time.

ENDS (14:08:35)

Disk 3

File 5

Segment (14:34:28 to 14:34:49)

149
Ward: This is just sad for you (inaudible). Finna died, bro. (Inaudible) 15:28:50

die (inaudible). Fucked up though these decisions I’ve made. (Inaudible).

ENDS (14:34:49)

Disk 4

File 1

Segment (15:28:50 to 15:32:30)

Murphy: Hey, (inaudible).

Reiff: Okay, you want a smoke? Did you smoke all those cigarettes?

Ward: Hmm (inaudible).

Reiff: Oh – you good? All right, hey uhm – (audible sound) we need to –

when you were at (inaudible) – what’d you end up doin’? Like what were you

wearin’ when this happened?

Ward: Black.

Reiff: Black what?

Ward: Black shirt --

Reiff: What --

Ward: -- black jacket.

Murphy: What --

Reiff: What kind of jacket?

Ward: Hoodie.

Reiff: A hoodie?

Ward: (Audible sound).

15:29:22

150
Reiff: Is it like any type of brand? Like what - what – who made the

jacket?

Ward: Just a regular black (inaudible) a regular black Old Navy hood.

Reiff: Old navy hood so no jacket then? Like sweatshirt like that?

Murphy: Was it like a zip up?

Ward: Like this.

Murphy: Like – it’s like a sweatshirt.

Reiff: What kind of jackets do you have?

Ward: A blue zip up Lacosta that I just bought yesterday that I had on

today.

Reiff: That’s what they – when you got grabbed that’s what you had on?

What else do you got?

Ward: A black Nike throw over.

Reiff: A black Nike throw over? What else?

Ward: A – a white Nike jacket. I just bought a Lacoste – another Lacoste

white jacket.

Reiff: Okay. You have anything else – like Northface?

Ward: Northface.

Reiff: Northface jackets? Nothin’ like that? So everything you got is

like Nike?

Ward: And Colombia.

Reiff: And Colombia, okay. What’s your Colombia jacket?

Ward: Black.

151
Reiff: Black, does it have any like - does it say Colombia on it? Where 15:30:22

at? Across the front? Okay, were you wearing that? You sure?

Ward: (Audible sound).

Reiff: So you’re sayin’ you were wearing a black hooded sweatshirt?

Nike? Did it say anything on it? What – what pants were you wearing?

Ward: Some Levi’s.

Reiff: Jeans? What about your shoes?

Ward: Black Nike boots.

Reiff: What color were the jeans?

Ward: Blue.

Reiff: So blue jeans Levis, black Nike boots and a black hooded

sweatshirt? Nothin’ else? You sure about that?

Ward : I’m positive.

Reiff: What’d you do with all your clothes?

Ward: In the house.

Reiff: Where are they at? In your house, in your bedroom - in your Ma’s

house? Okay. You’re sure you don’t have any other type of jackets? Just the

Columbia and the Nike stuff.

Ward: Got some old jackets in the house though. Some older ones I don’t

wear.

Reiff: Like what kind are those?

Ward: Coats.

15:31:38

152
Reiff: Okay, hmm- but the coat with the - the hooded sweatshirt you had

on. It was just like that, (indicating) right? That’s a hooded sweatshirt to me. Is

that what you’re referring to? Describe it exactly.

Ward: It’s black, (inaudible) strings, you know a Nike jacket.

Reiff: A Nike jacket? It’s – are you talkin’ about the same thing or two

things?

Ward: (Indicating).

Reiff: One thing? Where does it say Nike at?

Ward: You don’t see Nike, it’s a check mark.

Reiff: Oh, a check mark right here? Small one or a big one?

Ward: Small one.

Reiff: Okay, small little white check mark and it was black? Okay, all

right. So that one they took from you - you weren’t wearing that one? All right.

Murphy: Anything else?

Reiff: No, that’s it for me. Did – did you get to eat?

Ward: Well it’s kind of nasty.

Reiff: Did you (inaudible)? All right, sit tight, we’ll get you somethin’

else later if you’re still hungry all right - sit tight.

ENDS (15:32:30)

Disk 4

File 1

Segment (15:37:28 to 15:37:34)

Ward: (Inaudible) bitch. Someone comes and just bam! (Inaudible).

153
ENDS (15:37:34) 16:51:37

Disk 4

File 2

Segment (16:51:37 to 16:53:51)

Detective: What’ up, man? You drinkin’ soda? Wanna cigarette?

Ward: (Inaudible).

Detective: Okay, did you finish eating?

Ward: Yeah, I’m done.

Murphy: You’re all right? You want me to throw that out for you? I’ll get

the garbage can.

Detective: All right.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Detective: That’s soda? You want the soda – what do you want to keep

there? You still got food?

Ward: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, just leave it in there then. Now, don’t worry about the

(inaudible) good.

Murphy: You wanna keep the pop though?

Detective: (Inaudible). Need anything else?

Ward: Ya’ll about ready yet?

Murphy: No.

Detective: Ready for what?

Ward: For the lineup.

154
Murphy: No, not yet. 16:52:19

Ward: How long that’s finna be?

Detective: They got - we got to – we got to run a bunch of lineups so it’s

gonna be a couple of hours. It’s a four thirty right now Sunday.

Murphy: Remember all those people that were out there. I mean --

Detective: So it’s four forty-five. So it’s gonna be about another hour – for a

couple of hours. Why where you wanna go? You got to go downstairs or

somethin’?

Ward: Yeah.

Murphy: It’ll be a little bit.

Ward: No, I’m sayin’ can I get cell or somethin’? I can’t – I can’t take

this here.

Detective: Let us do these lineups and we’ll get you downstairs.

Murphy: Yeah, yeah we’ll be back here man. We’ll give you --

Detective: You cool? What’s up? What’s a matter?

Ward: I can’t take this shit.

Murphy: Yeah.

Ward: I just – I – can I sit in the - the cell downstairs or somethin’?

Murphy: No, you got to sit here (inaudible).

Detective: When – when were – when we’re that – how about if when we’re

done with that – line ups, we’ll take you down. Uh – might have a couple more

questions for you and between that before the lineup.

16:53:14

155
Ward: I got another question. Like for a written – do you have down a

written statement of me confessing?

Detective: No, we don’t write nothin’ down. We’re – we’re just – we’re

talkin’ to you right now. Do you want – one other thing you uh – you want to tell

us who has that gun man? What’d you do with that gun?

Ward: I ain’t got – I ain’t have not gun. I (inaudible).

Murphy: Huh?

Ward: As long as I ain’t got a written statement.

Murphy: No, you ain’t got no written --

Ward: (Inaudible) I want to take everything back I said ‘cause I did not

tell the truth.

Detective: Okay, all right (inaudible).

Murphy: (Inaudible).

ENDS (16:53:51)

Disk 4

File 3

Segment (17:19:53 to 17:21:58)

Detective: Michael, are you hungry? Or did you eat already?

Ward: This was nasty. I ain’t really eat it.

Detective: What is it?

Ward: McDonalds?

Detective: You don’t like McDonalds?

Ward: Yeah, it was kind of nasty. I couldn’t eat it.

156
Detective: Okay, I got Burger king. You don’t like (inaudible). 17:20:08

Ward: I’ll take some Burger King.

Detective: You want a stack (inaudible) or do you want a – you like a stacker?

Ward: Yeah, ma’am

Detective: Okay, you got somethin’ to drink then, right?

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Detective: That bottle is empty?

Ward: No, it’s not empty.

Detective: Well that’s – that’s not empty? Okay, that means you don’t want

no more? You want me to get rid of it or what?

Ward: Uh - like how – how long they’ll (inaudible).

Detective: They tell told you you’re gonna stand lineups, right?

Ward: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so that’s gonna take all day.

Ward: That’s gonna be all day.

Detective: Hmm-hmm, all right?

Ward: So (inaudible).

Detective: Yeah.

Ward: He got to go to the lineup too?

Detective: Yeah.

Ward: And then uh – for – I’m under investigation right?

Detective: Yeah.

Ward: And I ain’t like – ain’t told – I ain’t said I did anything.

157
Detective: Okay. 17:21:06

Ward: They keep askin’ me --

Detective: Okay.

Ward: -- like was I with him and did we had a gun and I keep tellin’ them

no and they keep making me talkin’ about some (inaudible) so they sayin’ yeah.

I’m tellin’ them no.

Detective: Okay, so what are you tellin’ me?

Ward: So do I need – can I speak to an attorney?

Detective: Is that what you want? We could get you – you get your own

attorney – if you want an attorney you get your own attorney, you know what I’m

sayin’? When – if you hit the courts, the courts will appoint one to you. That’s

when they give you your rights, remember?

Ward: Hmm-hmm.

Detective: Okay, so you don’t want to talk to no detectives no more? Is that

what you’re sayin’? Well speak to me.

Ward: Yes.

Detective: Okay, so --

Ward: Hmm --

Detective: -- you tell – you tell me you want a Lawyer? Say – speak to me.

Ward: Yes.

Detective: Okay.

Ward: Uh – (inaudible) I have to use the bathroom too.

Detective: Let me get some male officers to take you to the bathroom.

158
Ward: All right. 17:26:21

Detective: All right.

ENDS (17:21:57)

Disk 4

File 3

Segment (17:26:21 to 17:33:24)

Halloran: Say young man, you got to go to the bathroom?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Come on; put your hands behind your back.

Michael Ward leaves the room at 17:26:30

Michael Ward returns to the room at 17:33:17

Halloran: Okay, man.

ENDS (17:33:24)

Disk 4

File 3

Segment (18:08:22 to 18:08:52)

Halloran: Wake up young man. Do me a favor, take off the hoodie. That’s

the one we gave you last night, right? Okay, give me the hoodie. All right, we’re

gonna take you in another room. We’re gonna run a series of lineups. Remember

I told you we’re gonna do lineups? Now is the time we’re gonna do that. So

we’re gonna go across the hall and do these lineups, come on. You got to go to

the bathroom before we do this? All right.

Michael Ward leaves the room at 18:08:52

159
ENDS (18:08:52) 19:00:31

Disk 4

File 4

Segment (19:00:31 to 19:00:42)

Michael Ward returns to room at 19:00:31

Halloran: All right, have a seat. Now we took you in another room, set up a

series of lineups right and we brought you back here, correct? Okay, we’ll be

back.

Halloran: You don’t want this hoodie right now do you?

ENDS (19:00:42)

Disk 4

File 5

Segment (19:22:51 to 19:47:14)

Halloran: Okay, why don’t you stand up. Take up the hoodie, we’re gonna

do uh – some more lineups, okay.

Michael Ward leaves the room at 19:23:08

Michael Ward returns to the room at 19:46:37

Detective: All right.

Detective: I got it. I got (inaudible).

Detective: All right, we’re returning you back from doing the lineups –

brought you right back here, okay. You got your sweatshirt?

Ward: Yeah, am I’m done?

Detective: For now.

160
Ward: There’s more? 19:46:52

Detective: I don’t know, maybe. There might be more, I’m not – I don’t

know to be honest with you.

Ward: (Inaudible).

Detective: Okay.

Ward: Can I get somethin’?

Detective: Whatcha’ want?

Ward: Can I get a Newport?

Detective: I-

Ward: (Inaudible)

Detective: -- they find you any cigarettes?

Ward: I had a one – (inaudible)

Detective: Oh, you did? All right well I --

Ward: They – they – they did that one but one time I get all Newports

after that.

Detective: All right well I – I see what I can do ‘cause I don’t smoke. Let me

see what I can find all right.

ENDS (19:47:14)

Disk 4

File 5

Segment (20:14:42 to 20:15:05)

Detective: Michael, sit up buddy. Take your sweatshirt off for me.

Ward: Dam.

161
Detective: We’re gonna do it again. We’re gonna put you in a line up. What 20:14:52

position do you want to be in?

Ward: One.

Detective: I’m sorry?

Ward: One.

Detective: You want to be in position one, come on partner.

Michael Ward leaves the room at 20:15:05

ENDS (20:15:05)

Disk 5

File 1

Segment (20:29:56 to 20:30:32)

Michael Ward returns to room at 20:29:56

Halloran: All right. So we had you back over in the lineup (inaudible) as

much pictures in the different lineups, correct?

Ward: Yeah.

Halloran: Yeah, okay.

Ward: What is that for?

Halloran: To photograph the lineups we conducted. I mean no surprise there.

You know, you asked for a lawyer. I’m not gonna ask you any question, but

you’re askin’ me a question. So I can answer your questions. What was the

lineup for? What was the photo’s for?

Ward: The photos.

20:30:21

162
Halloran: The photos are to document the lineups we conducted. Anything

else? Okay.

Ward: So where do I go from here.

Halloran: From here we go to downstairs to the lock up.

ENDS (20:30:32)

Disk 5

File 3

Segment (22:39:08 to 22:39:43)

Halloran: Wake up young man? Hey, wake up, wake up. Come on – all

right, do me a favor. Grab your garbage there and throw it in the can there.

Halloran: Okay, return my hoodie.

Ward: Will I get mine back downstairs?

Hallroan: Huh?

Ward: I get mine back downstairs?

Hallroan: What?

Murray: You get a what?

Halloran: He wants his back downstairs. No, we (inaudible).

ENDS (22:39:43)

163