‘THE CIRCUIT COURT OF PULASKI COUNTY, ARKANSAS SIXTH DIVISION BRANDON SCHIEFELBEIN and KATINA JONES PLAINTIFF ys. CASE NO. 60CV-18-1096 THECITY OF LITTLE ROCK and KENTON BUCKNER, individually and in his official capacity as Chief of Police for the City of Little Rock DEFENDANTS SEPARATE DEFENDANT KENTON BUCKNER’S ANSWERS TO PLAINTIFFS’ FIRST SET OF INTERROGATORIES AND REQUESTS FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS Separate Defendant, Kenton Buckner (“Buckner”), respectfully comes before this honorable Court by and through undersigned counsel and, for its Answers to Plaintiffs’ First Set of Interrogatories and Requests for Production of Documents, states: INTERROGATORY NO. 1; Please state if you have been a party to any lawsuit since you were (21) years of age. Al ER: Objection pursuant to Ark. R. Civ. P.26(b)(1). The information sought by this interrogatory is not relevant to the issues inthe pending action, and not reasonably calculated to read to the discovery of admissible evidence. In addition, this interrogatory is unduly burdensome and overbroad. Chief Buckner should not be required to research records of any Tawsult filed against him since he was 21 years old for purposes of the instant action. Defense counsel is willing to discuss with Plaintiffs! counsel whether the scope of this interrogatory can be narrowed. INTERROGATORY NO. 2: If the answer preceding Interrogatory is “yes’ please state with respect to each lawsuit the following information: a. The Court in which the lawsuit was filed b. The names of all parties to the lawsuit.c. The case number for the lawsuit, d. The names of the lawyers representing all parties. ¢. Whether the lawsuit resulted in any final judgement or a settlement. f. The terms of any settlement. g The terms of any judgement. ANSWER: Objection for the reasons stated in the answer to Interrogatory No. 1. INTERROGATORY NO. 3: Since you were the age of (16) other than in an Official Police Report have you spoken or written the word “Nigger”. ANSWER: Yes INTERROGATORY NO. deleted your Facebook account. nce you were the Chief of Police for Little Rock have you ANSWER: Yes INTERROGATORY NO. 5: If the answer in the preveding Interrogatory is in the affirmative please state why you deleted your Facebook account and when. ANSWER: Within the last couple of years a Facebook account related to ear club collectors was deleted due to too many requests unrelated to ear club. INTERROGATORY NO. 6: After Plaintiff Schieflebein [sic] was terminated did you give any direetions to the training staff with Little Rock Police Department to tell recruits to review their social media postings and delete any containing racially derogatory remarks, terms, or words. ANSWER: Yes, The LRPD recruit class was instructed on multiple occasions to ensure that their social media accounts did not contain material that would be violative ofthe departmental social media policy and other rules and regulations of the LRPD. This directive was given orally by Captain Marcus Paxton, Lieutenant Rusty Rothwell, Officer Blisha Ramer, the lead instructorfor the class, and me. In the oral instructions, all recruits were specifically informed that this included material on their social media pages that should be immediately taken down. In addition, I sent a memorandum to all personnel that was reviewed with the class. A copy of the memorandum, dated December 8, 2017 was placed on the class bulletin board where it remains today. A copy of the memorandum is atached to the Answer to the Amended Complaint as Exhibit 4. INTERROGATORY NO. 7: After Plaintiff Schieflebein [sic] was terminated did you send any communications to all members of the Little Rock Police Department advising them to delete social media posts that might contain racially offensive terms. ANSWER: Sce Answer to Interrogatory No. 8. The December 8, 2017, memorandum was addressed to "All Departmental Personnel” and references social media, INTERROGATORY NO. 8: Did any employee of the Little Rock Police Department post on the official Little Rock Police Department page a “like” ofthe singer “21 Savage” ANSWER: Yes INTERROGATORY NO. 9: Did you receive any complaints from the Fraternal Order of Police concerning the “liking” of “21 Savage” by employee Victoria Brown. ANSWER: Yes INTERROGATORY NO.10: Please state if to your knowledge did “21 Savage” use any of the following words in his songs: a. Bitch b. Hoe «Nigga 4. Nigger a¢. Anti-police language a Yes. b. I do not know. ce Yes, d Yes. ©. I do not know. f I do not know. INTERROGATORY NO. 11: Did you reprimand Ms. Brown for “liking” a rap singer who had lyrics in his songs such as “21 Savage.” ANSWER: No. INTERROGATORY NO. 12: Did you receive any form of discipline from Bruce Moore as a result of approving the posting on Facebook by Victoria Brown of a “like” of “21 Savage”. ANSWER: No, I was not disciplined, There was no approval process for a Facebook post. INTERROGATORY NO. 13: Are any members of Little Rock Police Department presently or in the past been under surveillance by the United States Secret Service for their views about President Barrack [sic] Obama. ANSWER: Not to my knowledge. INTERROGATORY NO. 14: Has any member of the Little Rock Police Department written songs that contained the word “Nigga” in it. ANSWER: Not to my knowledge.INTERROGATORY NO. 15: If the answer to the preceding Interrogatory is “yes” please state if that officer or officers were disciplined and what the discipline was or if not discipline why not. ANSWER: Not applicable. INTERROGATORY NO. 16; Please state the name, address and phone number of any individual that you may or will call at the trial of this case. ANSWER: At this time a list of witnesses has not been compiled. At a minimum, Defendants will call Bruce Moore, personnel assigned to the Training Academy, the Plaintiffs and me. This answer will be supplemented when any additional witnesses are identified. REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION NO. 1; Please produce a copy of any document whether electronically stored or otherwise that you have received criticizing your action in terminating either one of the Plaintiffs or both. RESPONSE: A copy of the November 29, 2017, letter from attomey, Robert A. Newcomb is attached. REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION NO. 2: Please produce any document that you sent to members of the Black Police Officers Association after receiving the Complaint from Sergeant Willy Davis about the Plaintiff Brandon Schiefelbeins [sie] post. RESPONSE: See attached letter dated November 21, 2017, that was sent to the late Officer Melvin Vester who was President of the Little Rock Black Police Officers Association at the time. INTERROGATORY NO, 17; Have you directed that any investigation be conducted concerning Brandon Gurley’s friend accessing Katina Jones's Facebook account. ANSWER: No, Gurley had been terminated from his employment.INTERROGATORY NO. 18: Have you notified any Federal Law Enforcement Office of the actions of Brandon Gurley’s friend accessing the restricted Facebook account of Katina Jones. ANSWER: No. INTERROGATORY NO. 19: Please state the name, address and phone number of any employee of the Little Rock Police Department who to your knowledge after making reasonable inquiry has used the word “Nigger” other than as a quote since you have become Police Chief. ANSWER: [ am not aware of a specific case. INTERROGATORY NO. 20: Please state the name, address and phone number of any employee of the Little Rock Police Department who to your knowledge has used the word “Nigga” since you have become Police Chief. ANSWER: I cannot recall a specific incident. INTERROGATORY NO. 21; Was former employce Victoria Brown under investigation at the time she resigned. ANSWER: Yes. INTERROGATORY NO. 22: At the time of Victoria Brown resigning had she damaged a Little Rock Police Department owned vehicle within 3 weeks of her resignation. ANSWER: Yes. REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION NO. 3: Please produce any and all documents concerning any investigation of misconduct by Victoria Brown while she was employed by the Little Rock Police Department. RESPONSE: A copy of an Internal Affairs file is attached. INTERROGATORY NO. ince you were (16) years of age have you said the word “Nigga”.ANSWER: Yes. INTERROGATORY NO. 24: With the last (3) years have you known or heard any of the black police officers make racially derogatory remarks regarding white officers. ANSWER: Yes. INTERROGATORY NO.2 a, The name of the officer. if the answer is “yes” to Interrogatory 24 please state: b. The statement made by the officer. c. The disciplinary action taken against the officer. ANSWER: a. Will provide name of officer under separate cover. b. The officer was concemed about traveling down to the Red River US Army Depot outside of Texarkana with all white officers and wanted a “person of color” to go on the trip. cc. _Aninvestigation was undertaken, a violation sustained and the officer received an oral reprimand. ‘TERROGATORY NO. 26: State if you will supplement your answers within (10) days of learning any information that alters the answers originally given. ANSWER: Defendants will comply with the Arkansas Rules of Civil Procedure with respect to the supplementation of answers to these discovery requests. I, Kenton Buckner, state under oath that the forgoing answers to Plaintiffs’ Interrogatories Directed to Kenton Buckner are true and correct to the best of my knowledge LGC Kenton BucknerSTATE OF ARKANSAS) )ss COUNTY OF PULASKI) SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN to before = d, of May, ait Notary Public My oe jon Expires: Respectfully submitted, ‘Thomas M. Carpenter City Attorney: William C. Mann, Il Chief Deputy City Attorney Alex J. Betton Deputy City Attomey Rick D, Hogan Deputy City Attorney By: White ¢ Mans eI William C, Mann, Il Deputy City Attorney City Hall - Suite 310 500 West Markham Little Rock, Arkansas 72201 (501) 371-4527 bmannG@littlerock.gov CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE [ hereby certify that a copy of the foregoing has been served Robert A. Newcomb, P.O. Box 149, Little Rock, Arkansas, 72203 by placing same in-the U-S-Meil; postage prepaid, and by clectronie detivery-at robertnwemby@uol:com on this_/ 7-day of May, 2018. WAM BEL V ERG / wer— d C Hann William C. Mann, II° ® Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. ef Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Lite Rock and Kenton Buckner : ‘uly 23,2018 | Page 3 TRE CIRCUIT COURT OF PUUASRE COOMTE, AREANGAS eer pean peo wane rere chef gegen, sgntaretanan and trees HES — ean CAPTION . > 3 Wemmese) chrar Rao 2. mR | = Case wo.: GO-ew-18-1094 Pemlasidoa ey tes Momeni ys « 5 oad as |: Rosalapace uy tea | lencealemesr niet vere Ee eas arts | Goa navonsen'a cunerrzcar. le RARE arenes pean s/t cere as epee freee nse es at teh eee ts = ees nt eee ERE BRR PETES Eo a = See 4 ies See tet ee ama tao : 2 ee ae ree qa eee re ria a %, ARKANSAS =— 72201 '5 styled and numbered cause on the 23rd day of July, & ie : 6 2018, before Lee Ann Dickens, Arkansas Supreme Court sensor src: San eee ee oad tr 8 for Pulaski County, Arkansas, at 9:00 a.m,, at the ce ee ee Soi ia yar Hionpespopeae meer 11 agreement hereinafter set forth, a a ee Aster ab caer calairecis SE en ate ee re eet potter ab '19 taken for any and all purposes according to the Arkansas Rules of Civil Procedure. ieee ciel Min-Ui-Seript Grigsby Reporting Services (1) Pages 2-4 (501) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T, Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner uly 23, 2018 | Page 5 Page? | \a PROCEEDINGS 1 Constitution? | 2 (Exhibit Nos. 1, 2, and 3 were marked for 2 A dont recall a conversation or training ~ 3 identification and are attached hereto.) '3- study that specifically dealt with that topic. 4 THEREUPON, 4Q Okay. 5 ‘CHIEF KENTON T. BUCKNER, 5 MR. NEWCOMB: You can go ahead and lay it 6 ‘THE WITNESS HEREINBEFORE NAMED, | § —_—_down. 7 having been first duly cautioned and 7 ‘What do you want to do with — 8 swom by me to testify tothe truth, 8 ‘THE COURT REPORTER: It’s okay. I'll get 9 the whole truth, and nothing but the 9 themlater. 10 truth, testified on his oath as 10 "THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 31 follows, to-wit: 31 Q. (By Mr, Newcomb) I want to hand you~ a2 EXAMINATION a2 MR. NEWCOMB: And there's a copy for 13 BY MR. NEWCOMB) 1B 14 Q Would you state your name, please, for the 14 Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) — what I've marked as Exhibit 15. record. 15 No.2. Is that your letter of termination of Officer 16 A Kenton Buckner, 116. Schiefelbein? 47 Q_ And your address is 700 West Markham, Little 17 A. Yes, sr. 18 Rock, Arkansas? 18 Q Prior to ~ well, let me ask you was the basis 19 A Yes, sir 119. for the issuance of that letter the post that was 20 Q Okay. 20 complained about by the BPOA? 21 The reason I did that i I didnt want you to 21 A The basis ofthis was because after an 22. give your home address when I asked you. 22. investigation it was discovered that Mr, Schiefelbein 23 A Understood. 23. had language specifically o the "N* word on his 24 Q Chief, I want to hand you what I've marked as ‘24 social media post that was — we were notified about 25 Exhibit No. 3 25. itthrough the BPOA — Black Police Officers’ Page 6 Page 8 1 MR. NEWCOMB: And I'll come back in 1. Association «and then confirmed through our 2 order. I got them out of order. 2. investigation, 3 MR. MANN: Okay. 3. Did you confirm through your investigation that ‘ MR.NEWCOMB: Do you want to hand one | 4 ‘he had deleted it from his post prior to the 5 to= there's two copies there, 5 investigation stating? 6 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Have you ever read that before 6 A I don't remember that specifically. 7 today? 7 Q Doyou remember - strike tht. @ A Don't believe that Ihave. 8 Did Sergeant Davis from the BPOA inform you that 9Q Okay. 9 Brandon's post had been taken down according to 10 MR. NEWCOMB: I want to move its 10 Brandon Gurley? 32 introduction as Exhibit 3 11 A. [dont remember that specific information 12 Q (By Mr, Newcomb) I'm going to represent to you, 12. either. 413. Chief, that is from the Arkansas Constitution. Do 13 Q You indicated that the post was the basis for {14 you think as the police chief in Little Rock, 14. his termination — the use of the "N" word init, 15 Arkansas that you are required to comply with the 15 correct? 26 provisions of the Arkansas State Constitution? 16 A And the fact that it caused disruption both in a7 ‘THE WITNESS: Okay. What's your 117 our community and our police department, 18 question? 18 Q_ What members of the community complained about 19 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) Do you think as police chief |19. the post? 20 of Little Rock, Arkansas that you have an obligation [20 A Oh, I don't have specific names. 1 remember 21. to comply with the provisions of the Arkansas State 21 that it was — I was a source of media articles. 1 22. Constitution? 22. believe it was also on television or something that 123A Yessir 23 it was mentioned. It resulted in the — a letter 24 Q_ Has anybody ever familiarized you with the 24 that was sent from the BPOA and was certainly atopic 25 provisions of Article 2, Section 6 of the Arkansas 25. of discussion and buzz throughout our police a - bins } Min-Ui-Script Grigsby Reporting Services 2) Pages 5-8 (S01) 580-117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner Chief Kenton T. Buckner Suly 23, 2018 Page 9 Page 11 1. department and the community —~ individual citizens. 1. social media, There was a letter that was sent out 2 You know, because of Little Rock's history with race, | 2 inreferenoe to that. 1 also personally went to 3 there was no question that it ad caused significant 13 visit the two recruit classes that were in the 4 controversy. 4 training academy at that time, | 5 Q. Giveme the name ofa citizen I can go and talk 5. Q. Why didn't you go through and check police 6 to that called you and said, you know, this is 6 officers’ social media and fire them for having 7 causing me problems. 7 any ~ if any of them had the "N” word on their 8 A. [don't have a name of a citizen that says this, @ social media? 9s causing me problems. 9 MR. MANN: Justa point of clarification, |10 Q Give me the name of — other than the BPOA 10 You're talking about any officer? 411. executive board of any officer that came to you that a MR. NEWCOMB: Any officer. 412 said that it caused disruption and they wouldn't work --|12 A That was a discretionary decision that I made as 13. with Mr. Schiefelbei 13. tonot do something to that effect because [felt 14 A [dont have the name of any officers 14 like we were dealing with a complaint that we had 415. specifically tha said that they would not work with 415. before us and that the decision we had made to make 16 Mr. Schiefelbein, There were two recruits in the 416 sure that the agency was aware of the ramifications 417 class, obviously being Jones and Gurley, who— and __/17-_of any future violations of this nature and we dealt 18 of course said they were offended by the statement. 16 with that as to dealing with the issue we had in 119 I don't know the names of any individuals that were 19. front of us. 20 specifically in the class that were offended by the 20 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Why wasn't Mr. Schiefelbein 21 remarks. But, again, it eaused disruption both in 21. given the opportunity to clean up his Facebook — and |22 agency and in the community. 22 Tm using “clean up” in a delete offensive 23 Q Who the active officers other than the BPOA 23 language ~ ‘24 executive board indicated they had a problem with it? 24 A” Understood. 25 A. Well, there are a number of officers that came 25 Q —where others were? Pege 10 Page 12 11 up and talked about that, Hey. What's going on with 2A. Well, it’s good question. [think it's almost 2 this investigation ~ 2 ikea bullet out of a gun. You can take it back. 3.Q. Tmasking you for names, Chief. Not ‘3. And it was something that was there in front of us 4 generalities. 4 Itwas something that resulted insignificant 5A. And, again, sir, for the record, Ido not have a ‘5 coverage in our community ~ significant disruption 6 name of acitizen. Do not have a name ofa police 6 both in the police agency and in our community. And 7 officer other than the two individuals who 7 [felt that we had to take actions to deal with it 8 specifically brought the information forward who did 8 Q Ifthe BPOA had not sent the letter to the news 9 say at one time that they were offended by the ‘9 media, would Mr, Schiefelbein not been fired? 110 remarks. 110A. [believe that we would have dealt with the 111 Q_ Sof police officers are offended by remarks 11 situation the same way that we dealt wi 12 A. Yes, 12 regardless of how we had determined or discovered 13 Q — that would bea basis of termination of 13. that the language existed on his Facebook page. 44. someone that's an at-will employee? 14 Q_ SoMr. Schiefelbein was singled out because of 35 A. No. [think that's a broad-brushing statement 15. his Facebook post versus other officers who had 16 by you and I don‘ think that was the intent of my 16 Facebook posts ofa similar nature? 17 statement. 17 A_ Mr. Schiefelbein was singled out in that he was 16.Q Okay. 118 the person that was mentioned in the initial 19 Were you aware of any statements ~ I'l come 119 complaint that was discovered by Ms. Jones, passed on 120 back to that later. 20 to Mr. Gurley, given to the BPOA. And that resulted ‘21 Soif—if you— after Ms. Schiefelbein's a being the subject of the investigation and not 22 letter, you gave other officers the opportunity to 22. us singling him out as an individual, 23 clean up their Facebook page, correct? 23 Q. The BPOA requested that he be fired, correct? ‘24 Q. Wessent outanotice tothe department about the [24 A._They did request some sort of that language 25. need t remove inflammatory information from their [25 — I don't know if fire” was used. To be removed Min-U-Seriptit Grigsby Reporting Services (8) Pages 9-12 (501) 380-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner July 23, 2018 Le Page #3 | Page 15. 1 from the ageney was inferred. Yes, sir. 1 was told to him the outcomes that I had came up with 2. Q_ Wel, I think it’s shown that = 2 and that that was kind of the meat and potatoes of 3A. Theexit 3. our discussion. 4Q Theexit 4.Q_ Did you tell him that Mr. Schiefelbein had 5 Did you take that to mean that they wanted him '5- removed the post from his Facebook page prior tothe | 6 fired? 6 investigation? 7A would assume that they wanted him removed, 7 A. don't remember if I had that specific 8 from the police department. Terminated, fired. 8 discussion, | 9 Whatever you want to call it, Yes, | 9 Q Did you talk with him about the termination of | 110 Q_ Well, can we agree fired, terminated, shown to 10. Ms. Jones? ‘11. eit all indicated — would indicate they wanted him 11, A_Atsome point I did. Yes, sit 12 removed from employment with the City of Little Rock? 12 Q_ Before or after the termination? 33 A. That was my understanding, Yes, si. 13 A. Before, Anything of thats 414 Q_ And did you understand that Mr. Schiefelbein had 14 have been {15 acontract with the City of Little Rock to work 15 Q_ Tell me about ~ 16 day-to-day? 16 ‘MR. MANN: Let him finish, a MR. MANN: Object tothe form ofthe lay MR. NEWCOMB: Oh, I'm sorry. 1 18 question. 18 apologize. 419 A_ [don't know what contract youte talking about 19 A. Those kinds of decisions that have ~ had |20 when you say “contract.” 20. significant or potential or perceived impact to our [a © (By Mr. Newcomb) Well, a contract of employment 21 community or our police agency I do some sort of 22. to work on a day-to-day basis. 22. briefing with the city manager as to my decision, 23 A. [don't know if I consider anything that we have 23.Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) Okay. 24 witha recruit asa contract. 24 Did he concur with your decision? 25 Q_ Areyou familiar with— has anybody briefed you | 25 A Well, he doesn’t get involved in that as far as Page 14 Page 18 1 on decisions on at-will employees by the &th Circuit 4 concurring with a decision. I can tell you that 2 Court of Appeals that an at-will employment is a 2 there were — I was not challenged oF tried to sway 3. contract for day-to-day work? 3. imaany way the decision that [ made with di 4A 'mnot familiar with that language 4 Specialy for our swom police force, prety much 5. Q_ Areyou familiar with — that ~ strike that. 5 those decisions they end with me. Even though I may 6 So youhave not been briefed by anyone that an 66 have a discussion with the city manager of other 77 atewill employee has a contract for that day of work? 7 folks, the final decision rests with the chef, @ A I've never been told or discussed or used the 8 Q Are you the final decision-maker as you {language that any employee ofthe Little Rock Police 9. understand it within the City of Little Rock on 110 Department is under a contract. Iam aware that they _|10 termination of employees ofthe Little Rock Police 112. are at-will employees. I'm also aware that they have |12._Department? 12 2-year probationary period that they're on. And 12 A. Yes, sir 413 the other language is, is thatthe state of Arkansas 43 Q_ Did you have any discussions with — about the 114 isa right-to-work state, but Ihave never heard the 114 termination with Mayor Stodola? {15 term used as someone under a contract. 415A No, Not that [can recall, I'm pretty sure ~ 16 Q_ Did you~ prior to termination of Mr. |16_ don't remember discussing that with Mr, Stodola. |17- Schiefeibein, did you have any discussions about that _|27 Q__ Any members ofthe board of directors? 18 termination with Bruce Moore? 19 A No. 19 A did 19 Q. Were you aware thatthe original post by Brandon '20 Q_ Tell me about those conversations. 20 was something that occurred prior to his employment ‘21 A. I spoke with Mr. Moore and let him know that the 2 withthe City of Little Rock? 22 decision that I had come to that it would likely of 22 A The—apost— 123. course have significant media attention because of 23 ‘THE WITNESS: The post by Bret (sie) ‘24 the attention that it had already had during the 24 Schiefelbein? 25. investigation so thet he would be aware ofthat. It 25 ‘MR. NEWCOMB: Yes. Brandon. ina 1 eae —! Min-U-Seripti® Grigsby Reporting Services (4 Pages 13 - 16 (501) 380-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckn Page 17 | 2A Yes, I'm aware that it happened before. Yes, 2 A. Again, I don't remember chronologically when the 2 sir, 2 post was removed. I just remember that we were able 3.Q. (By Mr, Newcomb) Please don't take it that I 3. to.confirm that it was a post from Mr, Schiefelbein 4 was being ~ I'm bad about the names. And you had 4nd that the language that was used in there was 5 said “Brett” and I just wanted to make sure forthe '5 language that he had posted, {6 record that you're talking about Brandon where if we 6 Q Did youever~ strike that. 7 were reading it later we won't = 7 When did you understand that Gurley had learned 8 A. Yeah. But think we have two Brandons with @ ofthe post? 9 Schiefelbein and Gurley. And I wanted to make sure 9A. I think we learned of Gurley learning of the 210 that - 110 post once we began digging into the investigation and 33 Q. Yes, sir. And you had said “Brett” and it 11. it was determined that that was where Sergeant Davis |12 wasn't the last name part. It was the first one, 12 had received the information from, 113 A Okay, 13 Q_ Letme see if can ~ and I'm not arguing with 14 Q And will —~ what I'm going to do especially ~ 414 your time line and I'm not going to try to pin you 415 [can do it easier with “Gurley” is I'm going to 15 down to September the 4th, 16 always refer to him by his last name. 16 A Uh-huh, 17 A. Gotcha’ 17Q Okay? 18 Q Okay? 18 mot trying to do that with these quest 19 A Yessir. 19 A/ Ubhuh. 20 ‘MR. MANN: Sure. 20 Q Allright. 21 Q (ByMr. Newcomb) And the other one, Brandon _|21,__Did you understand that Gurley had had the 22. Schiefelbein, we all butcher it one way or another. 22. information from very early on inthe recruit class? |23 So— 23 A. Tmnot sure about early or so, but [think I 24.8 Gotcha’. 24 I do remember that Mr. Gurley had the information for 25 MR. MANN: Welll find out Monday. That's |25 a period of time before it was shared with Sergeant Page 18 Page 20 1 oncof the things I wanted to do. 1 Davis, | 2.Q. (ByMr. Newcomb) [can come close, 1 think 2Q Again, not tying to pin you down, But what 3. it's “Schiefelbein” and I don't know if any of us get 3 what would you define when you're using a “period of 4 itcorrect. And i's not meant as disrespect and not 4 time” to mean? And, again its not asking for an 5 taken as, you know, you, Bill, me—~ Brandon is not 5 exact number of days, but does a period mean, you 6 going to take it as any disrespect. Okay? | 6 know, 3 days or does a period mean a couple of weeks 7A Understood. 7 or more? © Q When you saw the language in the post ~ @ A. [I~ don't remember specifically. 1 | 9A Ubehuh, 9 would say less than a month or so that he had the 10 Q_ —were you aware that that was a statement that 10 information, ‘11. had been made by Kevin Hart? 11. Q. Okay. 12 A Iwas not looking at it at face value, I was 12 Now, did you understand that Sergeant Davis had 13. not 13. the information fora period of time before the BPOA 14 Q Did youbecome aware that those were words that 14 issued this letter? 35 were a saying of Kevin Hart's 15 A. That is correct. I understood that 26 A That was my understanding after the 16 Q_ And did you understand that it was a period of |17 investigation, Yes, sr. 117 time that Sergeant Davis had it before he took it to 18 Q And even knowing that, tha it was a quote from 18 the BPOA? 49 ablack comedian you decided to go ahead with 19, A That is my understanding. Yes, sir. 20 termination’ 20 Q_ Did you understand that Mr. Gurley was having ‘21 A That's correct. ‘21 performance problems in the academy? 22 Q Okay. 22 A {did leam that, Yes, sit. 23 You decided to go ahead with termination even 23 Q._ Now, along those lines, how many tests had ‘24 though it had been removed from his Facebook prior to |24 you did you understand Mr. Gurley had failed? 25. the start of the IA investigation? 25 A. [believe it was two, but I'm not 100 percent Min-U-Seript Grigsby Reporting Services (5) Pages 17-20 (601) 580-8117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner uly 23, 2018 r oi Page2i | Page 23 | 1 sure of that, 1 question, tell me and welll move, But, otherwise, 2Q Okay, 2_ please answer the specifi, you know, question and 3. Were the rules when the academy started that if 3. that specific question was should the BPOA have told 4 you failed two tests you were washed out? 4 you that at least Willie Davis had information that | 5 A. [don’t remember the specific rule about that 5. the offending post had been taken down voluntarily by 6 because it could be — I think a written test — it 6 Schiefelbein after Gurley had talked to him? 7 could be something from a physical performance. But | 7 A_ If they had that information, yes. there is language that says that once a recruit has 8 Q_ And would that be any type of rule violation by 9 failed a certain number of these categories then they 9 the BPOA on withholding pertinent information from 10 are candidates for termination. 110. you and ~ 31 Q_ And would that be something that Captain Paxton 12 MR. MANN: Object to the form of the 12. would be expected to know in more detail? 12 question, but you can answer if you can, 13 A. That would be something that Captain Paxton 13 A 1—TI don't know if it would be a rule 414 would have. And ifhe had a recommendation, he would [214 violation or not. It would be something that we 15. then forward that to Assistant Chief Fulk who is over [25 would have to do an investigation to determine if 116 that bureau, And then, again, the chief would make 16 there's been a violation. 117 the final determination as to whether or not there 17 Q (By Mr, Newcomb) Would you take this as a |1e would be separation from employment. 18 formal request to do an investigation since there's 19. Why did you issue your memorandum to everybody [19 been evidence put on by Mr. Davis yesterday thathe | 20 after firing Brandon? 20 knew thatthe post had been removed when be went to 21 A. When you have something that is significant as 21 the BPOA? 22 this particular investigation was, the kind of energy 22 A Repeat your question 23. that it created, both in our police agency and in our 23 Q_ Mr. — Sergeant Davis yesterday testified that ‘24 community, I felt thatthe responsible thing to do 24 at least he—~ Sergeant Davis ~ had learned from ‘25 was to try to ensure that our employees understood 25. Brandon Gurley that Brandon Schiefelbein had removed Page 24 4 the ramifications of this kind of behavior in the 1 the offensive post prior to the complain; that he | 2 future and try to prevent something like this from 2 knew that when he went to the — Sergeant Davis knew 3 happening again both in our agency and in our 3. that when they drafted the letter ftom the BPOA. 4 community. 4A [don't know if't would result in another '5.Q When Sergeant Davis made his complaint, should 5. investigation 6 the BPOA have told you that they knew that 6 Q Okay, 7. Schietelbein had removed the post prior to their 7 Soit'sall right for them to withhold that 8 complaint? information with impunity? ‘9A. I would expect the BPOA to notify us of any 9 MR. MANN: Object to form, 110 relevant information that they had about the 10 A I'm not sure if they withheld information. 411. complaint or the information that they had so that we |11. Q._ (By Mr, Newcomb) Well, did you sit here 12 could do a thorough investigation, 412. yesterday and Hear Sergeant Davis's deposition? 43 Q_ Was— would you consider that it had been 33 MR. MANN: You mean last Friday? 414. voluntarily removed a factor that you should have 14 MR. NEWCOMB: Friday. I'm sorry. 15. been told about? 15 A Lid, sir. 16 A I think that — again, that we should have known 16 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) And do you remember Sergeant 17 all relevant facts about the case or information that 117 Davis saying that he had been told by Brandon Gurley 118 could potentially impact the outcome of that 418 that Brandon Schiefelbein had already removed the 19. investigation. I think it would be expected to know 419. post and it said apologized to Brandon Gurley if it 20 any relevant information. 20 offended him that that post was up? 21 Q Okay, 21 A_ Ido remember Mr. Davis — Sergeant Davis 22 Chief, 'm going to try ita third time, You 22 stating that Mr. Schiefelbein had apologized for the 23 talk about relevant information and you talk in nice ‘23 post, but I don't remember him saying that it had ‘24 generalities, but I asked you a specific question. 24 been removed before we were notified of it. 25 Ifyou not capable of answering the specific 25 Q Ifthe deposition shows that, would you agree Min-U-Script Grigsby Reporting Services (© Pages 21 - 24 (501) 580-5117Brandon Schiefetbein and Katina Jones v. ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckn: Chief Kenton T. Buckner 20 Poge 25 | Page 27 | 1 formation from you = at | 1. duty as chief of police to initiate investigations if | 2. least Sergeant Davis did. I don't know if the other | 2 you lear that there's a potential violation by an 2 board members knew about it, 3 officer? 4A. [don't know if | would go that far-reaching to 4A Thave a duty to consider as to whether or not | 5 say that he withheld something from me. Iwould just. | we would conduct an investigation for that. ‘ information that we've now been made aware | 6 Q_ Will you consider conducting an investigation of 7 of. 7. Sergeant Davis over withholding — apparently 8 Q Should you have been made aware oft before the | & formation from the police department 9 investigation of Schiefelbein if that was known to 9 about the Schiefelbein incident apologizing and 10. Sergeant Davis? 10 removing his Facebook ~ 11 A. If Sergeant Davis knew that, yes, sit. a MR. MANN: And I would just object tothe 432 Q And if Sergeant Davis withheld that information |12 _form with respect tothe implication from the 113. by not disclosing it, was that a potential rule 13° question that there was some sort of |14- violation? 14 intentional withholding of information, But | 45 MR. MANN: Object to form. 15 with that objection, you may answer, 16 A Iwould have to doan investigation to determine |16 A_And Iwill take that into consideration. 117 if it was a rule violation, 17 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) Would you let me know if you 38 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Okay. 118 take it and do an investigation? 19 Would you please take this asa formal request 19 A Iwill, 20 to doan investigation of Sergeant Davis on that 20 Q Doyou remember if do you know Sergeant Van 21. point? 21 Thomas? 22 MR MANN: May interject here? Ifyou, 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Robert ~ Mr. Newcomb -- want to have an 23 Q. Whois Sergeant Thomas? 24 investigation made on that particular po! 24 A_ He isa sergeant over our recruiting unt. 25 theresa process in contacting Internal 25 Q Doyou remember whether Sergeant Thomas verified Page 25 | Page 28 1 Affairs. Ifyou wish to do that, that is 4 that Mr. Schiefelbein had removed the offending post | 2 fine 2 from Facebook? 3 ‘MR. NEWCOMB: I'm asking the chief of 3.A_ Again, I don't remember any specific language ~ 4 police and are you instructing him not to 4 written or conversation about the removal of Mr. 5 doit? 5. Schiefelbein's controversial post 6 MR. MANN: No. I'm not instructing ~ 6 Q_ Did you read the investigation prior to 7 MR. NEWCOMB: Are you instructing him to | 7 terminating Schiefelbein? 8 ignore knowledge of a possible violation? 8A Idid, ° MR. MANN: Well, I'm telling you there is 9 Q_ Soif Sergeant Thomas's statement is in therein 110 _aprocess that ean be followed, and - like 20. the internal affairs file you would have read it and 12 everyone else in the community does. And I'm 22 known about it? 32 ing him not to doit or to do 32 A Atsome point. Yes, sir. 13 anything. I'don't contol the police 13 Q Did the police department instruct the recruits 34 department as you know. And I'm just simply 14 in the class that Ms. Jones and Mr. Schiefelbein was | 35 saying that the chief perhaps can explain to 415. in at the start oftheir time with the police 46 you the process for initiating an 1A. |16 department to remove any offending posts? 17 investigation. Ifyou wish to follow that, 17 A_ [don't know if that was done at the beginning, 18 _thatis just fine 18. of their reeruit class o not. 319 Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) Let me ask ~ Chief, if you 19 Q_ Sothey ~- what notice would they have had to 20 become aware of a violation or potential violation by [20 remove ~ prior to your memo, okay, to remove ‘21. your police officers, do you have the authority to ‘21 potentially offensive posts from their social media? 122 initiate an investigation without a complaint from a 22 A Iddon't know when ori that specific 23 citizen? 23 conversation would have taken place with the recruits 24 A. Idohave the authority. 26. prior to this incident. 25 Q_ And you can do it without a— do you have « 25 Q_ Thecity produced the Internal Affairs Min-ti-Seript® Grigsby Reporting Services () Pages 25-28 (S01) 580-117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner ‘July 23, 2018 Poge 28 . Page 31 1. investigation of Mr. Schifelbein, Mr, Gurley and 4 Q Now, ifthe BPOA had not sent their leter to 2. Sergeant Davis, which was case No. 2017-029. Andi'm | 2 the news media and made it an issue of news, would 3 not going to ~ I don't want to burden this record 3 Mr. Schiefelbein have been fired? Assuming for this ‘4 with it, But were you familiar that I have received | 4 purpose that the post was not offensive tothe person | 5 as part ofthe answers to interrogatories the | 5. who was tagged init — you understand that that's | 6 Internal Affairs file? | 6 true 7A Yessir. |-7- A. [donot understand your question 8 Q And it’s a complete and accurate copy of the | @ Q Just—I havent got there yet. 9 Intemal Affairs file conducted by the police 9A. Okay. 10 department on this question? 10 Q We know that the Internal Affairs investigation 4a A Tmconvinced that the report that we conducted _-—11._ showed that the two African Americans that were with ‘12 was complete, I don't know obviously specifically 412. Schiefelbein when the picture was taken and the tag 13. what you have, but Im assuming that what you 13. of “night night" was put on there were not offended 14 received isa copy of our complete report. | 14 by it, correct? 415 Q And you relied on that report in making your 15 A. Fm—yes, sir. You are correct. jon to terminate Mr. Schiefelbein? 16 Q We're also aware that there was no a7 A Idid, 17 investigation ~ no evidence other than that “night |18 Q Now, when a recruit is called into Internal 118 night" that Mr. Schiefetbein had had any racial 419 Affairs, they have an obligation to answer all 19 animus toward African Americans? 20 questions, correct? 20 A That's my understanding. Yes, sir. 21 A Thats correct. 21. Q_ We knew that Mr. Schiefelbein had removed the ‘22 Q. They — ifthey refuse to answer questions, what ‘22 post from the public viewing and completely off of ‘23 would be the consequences? |23_ his Facebook once Brandon Gurley told him he was 24 A They would be subject to discipline upto and |24 offended by it? 25 including termination. 25 A Again, I've said five or six different times 1 Page 90 Page 32 1 .Q. They dont even have a Sth Amendment privilege 1am not aware of do not remember information being 2 against self-incrimination either, do they? 2 brought forward that Mr. Schiefelbein had removed the 3A. Not- 3 things in question. ‘ MR. MANN: Object tothe form. 4. Q Ifthats in the Internal Airs file 5A. Not for an administrative violation in Internal 5A Okay, 6 Afairs. No, sir. 6 Q_ — would you agree then that that was — at 7.Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) Well, i'm called in to 7 east there was evidence ofthat? 8 Internal Affairs, do Ihave a right to refuse to 8 A Ifit’s inthe file, then, yes, sir, I would say 9 answer questions about criminal conduct? 9. there would be — that would be evidence that ~ |10 A Not in an administrative process you cannot, 10. there was evidence of that. Yes, sir. aa sir 431 Q_ And ifthere was text messages exchanged that 22 Q And Internal Affairs is an administrative |12- are inthe file showing Mr. Scheifelbein apologized 13. process, correct? 13. to Mr. Gurley fort offending him, are you aware of 14 A. That is correct. 14 that? 415 Q__Itis completely separate and apart from your 15 A Lam aware ofthat, {16 Criminal Investigation Division? 16 Q Ifthe BPOA had not sent their complaint to the 117 A Thatis correct. |117- news media, would Mr. Gurley still have been — 18 Q They donot share their files per se withthe 18 excuse me— Mr. Scheifelbein sill have been 19 Criminal Investigation Division? 19 fired — 20 A Comet. 204 Yes sir. ‘21 Q._ And by “per se,” I'm talking about the 21 Q = ornot? | ‘22. statements of the individuals under investi 22, A Yes, si 23. the officers. They may share other statements, 23 Q. Soif you leam of other police officers who hed 24 correct? 24 posts of an offensive nature using the "N* word, 25.A Correct, 25. would you commit to firing them or disciplining them? Min-Ui-Seript® Grigsby Reporting Services (8) Pages 29 - 32 (501) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner July 23,201 7 cx Page 3 | 7 Page 35 1 A. If wedo an investigation and confirm that they 1A. Thats correct. 2_ have official offensive posts in their social media 2. Q After you terminated Mr. Schiefebein, did you 3. outlets ~ specifically the "N" word, then, yes. 3. delete your Facebook page account? 4 They would potentially face the same outcome as the 4A Thave taken my Facebook account down a couple | 5: thre individuals in question for this investigation. 5 oftimes, [think at one point during some time — | 6 Q And if they had it on there before you put out 6 during or after this incident my account had been 7. your memo about please clean up your Facebook, that | 7 down. @ would stil be a basis for termination? 8 Q And in the interrogatory answers, you indicated 9A I don't understand your question. 98 youhad used the "N" word, correct? 10 Q. You sent out a memo urging that the officers 10 A Ihave, 11 review their social media and make sure there's no 14 Q _Inwhat circumstances have you used the "N" word | 12 offensive language on it, correct? 12 since you tumed 21? 13, A. Correct. 13 MR. MANN: Just to clarify, we're talking | 14Q. Okay. 114 about the “N” word with both “ER” and“ |15 Ifofficers had the offensive language on their 115 areyou wanting to {16 social media prior to your memo and i's shown to 16 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Let's go tothe “ER” to begin, 117. you, would you stake disciplinary action against - |27- with and then we'll come back with the “A” version. a8 ‘MR. MANN: Let me just interject and ask 18 Okay? 119 —_youtoclarify, Are you talking about the 19. A_ Uh-huh. Yes, sit ‘20 probationary recruit class? 20 Q_ Tho— using tin the “ER” version? 22 MR. NEWCOMB: Everybody. 21 A_ don't know when or where or the context in 22 MR. MANN: You're talking about any |22 which it would have been used in the “ER” version, 23 officer 23. but [have used the word. 26 MR. NEWCOMB: Any officer, 24 Q_ Directed it toward other individuals calling 25 MR. MANN: ~- on the Little Rock Police 25 them that? Page 34 Page 36 1 Department? 1 A Iteould have been, Again, I don't remember the 2 MR. NEWCOMB: Yes. 2. specific incident. I just know that I have used the 3 ‘THE WITNESS: If any officer in the 3 word. 4 police department had something prior to the 4. Have you used the word while you ~ other than 5 letter, would — if L was made aware of i? 5 inywriting reports — I'm excluding as a police | 6 Q (ByMr. Newcomb) Would you take disciplinary 6 officer | 7 action against them? TA Yessir. 8 A_ I would have taken the same course of action 8 Q_ —you might goto a scene and you're writing or | 9 that I took with these three, I would have conducted 9. recording or somehow repeating what a witness said to | 10 am investigation and they would potentially be facing __|10._you and they used in their report the "N" word in any 12. discipline, 11. Version oft. Okay? I'm not counting those 32 Q When you terminated Mr. Schiefelbein, were you [12 situations, okay, Chief? 413. aware that he had been on military orders prior to 13. A Yes sir. 414 starting his reruit class? 146 Q. Okay. 15 A. Iwas made aware ofthat during the 15 After you became a police officer, did you use 16 investigation, 16 the “ER” version ofthe "N" word toward anybody? 17 Q_ Did you have any discussions with 1A to 17 A. Again, | just know that I've used the word, 18 discuss — to interview the members of the unit that 18 When, where and the context in which the word has 119. Mr. Schiefelbein served in with the military to see 19 been used I do not know. Ian tell you that I've 20. ifhe had evidenced any racist comments? 20 never posted that kind of language on any of my |21 A. Theonly individuals that I believe that we 21. social media platforms. 22 specifically spoke to where the two African males 22 Q My question, though, is have you ~ singe you | 23. that were depicted inthe post. 23 became a police officer other than the course of your ‘24 Q And those two members indicated they were not [24 duties of making reports, you've used the “ER” '25. offended by it, corect? 25 version of the "N" word? Min-Ui-Seriptt (0) Pages 33 - 36 Grigsby Reporting Services (601) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner “The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner ly 23, 2018 i Page a7 | Page 38 | 1 A. Thave sed the “ER” version of the "N" wo 1. Q. He had it on his, didn’ he? | 2 Q Since you became police chief in Little Rock, | 2A. Well, there was a secondary complaint or a third ‘3. other than, you know, a police report or quoting a | 3. complaint made I believe by Ms. Jones about those two 4. police report — I'm excluding, you know, that —- 4. individuals, When we went to verify that those posts 5 have you used the “ER” version of the "N" word? 5 existed, they were not there. 6 A Lwould say yes. 6 Q. When you went to verify the post of Mr. 7Q Okay. 7 Schiefelbein, it wasn't there, was it? | 8 Now, ifthe public was aware of you doing that, 8 A Again, that I don't remember. 9 do you think that would cause disruption in the 9 Q Well, if it's in the Internal Affairs file then 110 community? 10 you would have known it atthe time you made your |21 A- It could potentially cause disruption in the 11 decision to fire him? 32 community. 32 A [would have known. 13 Q__Ifit was known to members of — the black 13 Q And you would have considered that, that it had |14 members of the police department, would it cause them — |14 been removed as insufficient not to fire him? 15. to have problems with you? 15 A No, If ifit was a case to where we had no 16 A_ It could potentially cause me to have problems. 16 evidence of it or no admission that he was a7 Yes, sir. 117 responsible forthe post, that certainly would have 18 Q Now, going to the “A version ofthe word. 18 ificantly different than verifying it there 19. Okay? Have you used the "N" word ending in'“A" since |19 or not verifying it there or the admission thatthe ‘20 you tumed 21? 20 post belonged tothe individual. 21 A Yes, sir, And for me or my usage because of not 21 Q Well, when they go to Internal Affairs and are 22 kno ‘what specific time or the context in which it 22 asked about is this a post of yours, can they refuse 23 would have been used""A” or “ER,” it~ the response [23 toanswer that question? 24 tothat question isthe same as the “ER.” I don't 24 A Inan administrative process, no, si. They '25 know the context or the time specifically when the 25. cannot. Page 38 Page 40 1 word has been used, But the “A,” too, has not been 1Q Andifthey said, Oh, no. I don't have that 2 on my social media platforms. 2 post 3 Q. Now has the Little Rock Police Department hired | 3 A Right 4 any individual who threatened to blow up their 4 Q —and you had evidence that there was that 5 school? 5 post, would that be a lie in Internal Affairs? | 6 A I~ Thave no knowledge of a conversation where 6 A_ Well, I don't know if 1 would consider it a lie. 17 we hired someone who threatened to blow up their 7 L would have to beable to definitively @ school. 8 9 Q Are you familiar with iirtuctamr 9 MR. MANN: Let him finish. 10 Sag? 10 A Iwould have to be able to definitively say that 11 A @attttihdiigen. The name does not ring a bell. 11. they have lied about the statement that they have 12 Q_ If somebody when they were a juvenile had 12. made. 413. adjudicated as a juvenile but it was known inthe 413 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) So if they dont admit to {14 community that they had threatened to blow up @ 14 lying, its — but the evidence is contradictory, 15 school, would that cause the same disruption as Mr. 15 that wouldn't be enough? 16. Schiefelbein’s post? 16 A. {dont understand your question. 17 A I don't think that there is a parallel word to 17 Q Well, ifthe police department had a document '18 the "N" word as it relates to racial tension, racial 118 that purported to be from their Facebook ~ 19. devisisness that compares to the "N" word. 19 A. Ubshuh, '20 Q But you had two recruits who had the "N" word on |20 Q_ — and they denied that they was their Facebook, 21 their social media that weren't fired, correct? ‘21. what would ~ and checking the Facebook and it wasn’t 22 "THE WITNESS: Which specific recruits are [22 there any longer, would that be allright? 23, you referring to? 23 A_ I would say it's either unfounded or 24 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Wa 24 unsubstantiated. 25 A Yes, si 25 Q Weren't there background checks on the officers Min-U-Seriptt Grigsby Reporting Services 17 (10) Pages 37-40Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T, Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner ‘uly 23,2018 Page ai Page 43 1 that were hired in Ms. Jones's class and Mr, Gurley's | 4A. “Provided several copies of sereen shots from | 2 class? 2 the Facebook account ofa black female identified as 3 A Wedo background checks for our classes. Yes, | 3. Pug Jones.” 4 sit. 4Q Correct. 5. Were there recommendations that Mr. Gurley not | §_—_So that was the source of the start of the 6 be hired? | 6 investigation of Ms Jones, correct? 7A. Idon't remember if Mr. Gurley was recommended 7 A “MS. ——"— 8 not tobe hired. ° "THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, [can't 9 Q Why didnt your background checks find Mr. 9 dothatifyou're— 110. Schiefelbein’s post? 10 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. {11 A__From the social media standpoint, I do not n ‘THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sory. 432. believe that we were either doing that level of 12 MR. NEWCOMB: Just read itto yourself. 15. background checks or atleast to what degree that we —|13.-——That will help just where she doesnt have to 414. were doing it that we do today. “= [15 Q Did ~ did you know ~ strike that. 15 A Yes, Ms, Odgie delivered that from Mr. Gurley |16 Was the investigation of Officer Jones initiated 116 who was out of town for work. 17 because there had been a complain filed with HR and |17 Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) And the third paragraph says 418° that was taken also to intemal Affairs? 118. the examination identified Katina Jones as Pug Jones, 19 A. believe Ms. Jones's case was the result of Mr. 19 correct? | ‘20 Gurley ~a complaint from Mr. Gurley. 20 A That's correct 21 Q. You don't happen to have the internal 21. Q__ Because of these posts that were ~ screen 2 jon of Ms, Jones with you, do you? 22. shots ~ excuse me ~ that were brought by Ms. Ogdie, 23 A. Tdon't have any eases with me. 23. you authorized an Internal Affairs investigation of 24 ‘THE COURT REPORTER: Wouly0u like moto |24 Ms. Jones, comet? 25 lth sent it to me? 25 A. Ibelieve so. Poge 42 Poge aa 1 MR, NEWCOMB: Yes. It would be the 4.Q Ifyou look at Page 1-2 wasnt tri 2 Internal Affairs file that looks like this 2 tick you, Chief. It's about the fouth paragraph. 3 first page. 3A. Yes, sit. 4 "THE COURT REPORTER: Okay, Faith ssid | 4 Q_ So you~ the motivation for starting this 5 —_youmarked it. Okay. Here you go. 5 investigation were the sereen shots, correct? 6 Q (ByMr, Newcomb) Now, you said that Mr. Gurley | 6 A” Yes, sir 77 brought the complaint tothe police department. Is 7.Q Ifyou go down to the last paragraph ~ that what you remember? 8 MR. MANN: Same page? 9A. Tdonit know if Mr. Gurley physically brought 9.Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Same page on the sixth line 10 the complaint, but I think it was some information 10 down, the last word in that line is “he.” T mean, 412 that Mr. Gurley made the accusation, or his lady 111 you can read the whole — why don't you read the 32 friend 112 whole paragraph and then | want o ask you some 113 Q Iwano show you ffom the— Exhibit No.7t __|13_ questions. Okay. Read it to yourself, please [14 Ms. Jones's deposition and direct your attention to (34 MR. MANN: Ihave Paxton coming at 10:30. 115. the second full paragraph —~ the bottom would be Page 1 ——_‘s that still a good time? 26 I-1, There's io ~ memo from Sergeant Stephens to |16 MR, NEWCOMB: Well, I~ and we can go 417. Liewenant Branford. 17 ofthe record 10 A Okay. 18 (THEREUPON, after a brief discussion was 19. Q Okay. 19 held ofFthesrecord and a short break was 20 Itsays December 28th that Jennifer Odgie~ and |20.-—_taken from 10:00 am, to 10:05 am. the 21. I'm probably mispronouncing it as bas as I did the 21 proceedings resumed as follows, to-wit) (22. other day: 22 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) You've had an opportunity to 23 A. Uh-huh, O-D-G-LE. 23. read the last paragraph on the Page 1-2? ‘24 Q Was the one that brought copies of screen shots [24 A Yes, sir. All right. 25. to the department, corect? 25 Q Okay. l et eg 2) Min-U-Seript Grigsby Reporting Services (11) Pages 41-44 (S01) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Kat Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner 7 eh uly 23, 201 re : i Page 48 Page 47 | Did you seein there that Mr. Gurley 1A. Weknew that that was a potential ~ a 2. reading from ~ i's about the sixth or seventh line 2. possibility due to the accusation being made by Mr. ‘3. down at the bottom where it tarts “Mr. Gurley could 3 Gurley. ‘4 not explain how his friend had access tothe Facebook | 4 Q_ Okay, | account other than saying his friend had the computer _|$_—_And are you aware about the provisions ofthat | 6 skills necessary to access Facebook accounts that | 6 act excluding the use of hacked material? 7 have been locked or have been deleted.” Did you see 7 MR. MANN: Object to the form. 8 that? 8A. I'mnot aware of the language of the act. 9A Yes. 9. Q (By Mr, Newcomb) Without the material, which 10 Q Did that indicate to you that the friend ad 10. are basically — if you flip over to Exhibit 2-2, the 411. somehow accessed without permission Ms. Jones's a 112 Facebook account? a2 MR. MANN: Page 2-2? 13 A That was.a possibility. Yes, sir. 13 ‘MR. NEWCOMB: Page 2-2 through 28. 14 Q And are you familiar with the Stored Electronic 4 ‘MR. MANN: Just making sure. 15. Communications Act? 15 MR. NEWCOMB: I’m not going to ask him 36 A Tamnot 16 questions about the individual —1 just | 117 Q_ Are you aware that it isa federal offense to 17 wanted to have him confirm something about | 18 use in common parlance hack in to somebody else's 18 those if he can |19 account? 19 "THE WITNESS: Okay. Go ahead, sir. 20 A. I believe it's a federal offense or could be a 20 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) Are these the Facebook screen 21. potential federal offense. Yes, sit ‘21. shots that were provided tothe police department via 22 Q Doyou have obligation to report potential 22, Mr. Gurley's friend? ‘23. federal offenses tothe FBI, secret service or an 23 A They appear to be. Yes, si ‘24 appropriate federal agency if you become aware of it? 24 Q__ Without 2-2 through 8 being provided to the 25 A. If Tm aware ofa federal offense violation, |a5 police department, would there have been any Page 46 Page 48 yes, sir, We would report that, 1. investigation of Ms. Jon 2.Q Okay. 2 A. don't know. It just depends on what you 3 And this— but you dida't know that hacking in 3. discover in an investigation, from testimony or from 4 toMs, Jones's computer ~ I'l rephrase that. That 4 other things that could potentially lead to that. | '5- the person accessed a closed, locked computer wasn't ‘5 can't say that one thing would automatically lead to 6 acrime? 6 another. 7. A Tknow that if someone is — has in fact done 7Q_ Andy question isa lite bt different, 8 that, it could potentially be listed a a crime, 8 Chief. Without these sereen shots being provided to 9.Q. And Mr. Gurley said ~ 9 the police department ~ 20 MR. MANN: Let him finish. 10 A Ubshuh. 412A Butyou have to understand with Mr. Gurley 11 Q —would there have been an investigation of Ms. | ‘12 addition to his conduct concerning the investigation, | Jones? 13. he was also charged with untruthfulness. So he was 13 A. Yes. sir. 114. kind ofall over the place throughout this whole 14 Q On what basis? 15. ordeal. 15 A. On the basis that Ms, Jones admitted to our 446 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) understand that but these _|16_ investigator that she had the post on her page 17. e-mails ~ excuse me — these posts on Facebook by 17. basically confirming what was given during the 118 Ms. Jones that started the investigation ~ 16 complaint — 19 A. Yes sir. 19.Q Okay. J20 Q —by Sergeant Stephens ~ 20 A — so there was a corroboration of that 2a A Yes sit 21. information. ‘22 Q —yowrall knew that they —“yourall” being the 22 Q Let me try one more time. ‘23. police department based on Sergeant Stephens’ memo _|23__Without the Facebook shots provided to the 24 knew thatthe source of those e-mails was somebody _|24_police department by Mr. Gurleys friend -- |25 accessing without permission Ms. Jones's account? 25 A (Witness nods head up and down.) Min-U)-Seript® Grigsby Reporting Services (12) Pages 48-48 (S01) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner July 23,2018 a Page 49 | - Page 51 1. what — there would not have been an 1 statement was that 21 Savage says it’s okay to be ~ 2 investigation, would there? 2_ it's cool to bea police officer, 3A. Without the screen shots of - provided by Mr. 3. Were you a familiar with his lyrics from his 44. Gurley would there have been an investigation of Ms. | & songs? '5 Jones, no. Prior to this information coming forward, 5 A I'm familiar with some of hs lyrics. Yes, sir. {6 Ms. Jones was not the subject ofan investigation, 6 Q_ Would you consider that his — the language that 7. Q_ And as we sithere today = 7. you are familiar with degrades women? 8 A. (Witness nods head up and down.) 8 A. could see how that would be perceived that way | 9 Q —you have not provided the information about 9 from women, Yes, sir. |10_ the screen shots being provided to the police 10 Q Well, do you consider it to be demeaning of 111. department to any federal agency? 411 women, the language that you're aware of on his 32 A Ihave not 12 songs? 3 MR. MANN: Do you still want him tohave —|13 AT would have to know what specific language 14 this? 24 you're talking about. a5 MR. NEWCOMB: Just in case. Imightbe __|15 Q__ Well, did you check out his songs after the 16 through, but we might as well ~ 16 complaint came from the FOP? a7 MR. MANN: Sure. 17 A. [didn’t go and check out his songs. 1 18 MR NEWCOMB: I'm trying to find it on 18 again, 1 was vaguely familiar withthe artist before 19 the I'm going to mark this as 4 t0 your 19 that ‘20 deposition, Chief. I've got copies. Here's 20 Q Well, I want to show you~ and Ill ask you ‘21 —_acopy for you, Bill. 21 about it~ your answers to interrogatories. 22 MR. MANN: Thank you 22 A. “Did you receive any complaints from the 23 (THEREUPON, Exhibit No. 4 was marked for 23. Fraternal Order of Police liking 21 Savage. Yes.” 2 identification and is attached hereto.) 24 Q_ Then what ~ did I ask you if you were fa 25 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) With respect to Exhibit No.4 |28withany of his songs ~ language? Do you see those | Page 60 Poge 62 1. that Ijust gave you, okay. the first sheet, you had 1 words? 2. not seen it prior to Friday, had you? 2A Yessir 3A. [dont recall seeing the sheet. 3. And you admitted that you knew some of them. Go 4.Q Would you flip over tothe second and third 4 tothe next page. 5 pages of it? 5A. Yessir. Yes, sir 6A. Okay. 6 Q And was that — when did you become aware of is 7.Q_ Did you send that e-mail out to all members of 17 songs containing — the words I talked about that you @ the police department on July 31st? 8 admitted to, was that before or after the post? 9A Idid. 9A. Before ‘10 Q What caused you to send th 20 Q And when the police department ~ excuse me. So 11 A There were some disagreements about a rap artist |11_you were referencing support ~ strike that. 32 by the name of 21 Savage where a panelist guest at a_--'12-—- Knowing those words, did you write Exhibit No, 13 N.O.BLLE, conference—N.O.B.LE. is an acronym for 13 4, page 2 and 3 of it? |14 the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement 14 A Exhibit No. 4, Page 2 and 3, 415. executives. It was a youth summit that basically was [15 ‘THE WITNESS: Now what was your question? ‘16 trying to bridge the gap between law enforcement and |16 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) 1 said you've now admitted 17, youth, And there were a few hip hop artists there 17 before the like of the 2 Savage you were aware of 18. that were a part of the panel discussion, 18 his use of the word that you admitted to in the 19 Q And was there « complaint about ~ strike that 19. interrogatories, correct? 20 Did the Little Rock Police Department issue a 20 ‘THE WITNESS: Before who liked? ‘21. excuse me ~ not issue ~ post on their official 21 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Ms. Brown liked on the ‘22. police department website or ~ no -- Facebook -that 22. Facebook of the Little Rock Police Department 21 | 123 it iked 21 Savage? 23, Savage? 24 A_ [don't remember about the like or follow thing. 24 A Yes. Iwas aware of his lyrics before then, 25 I remember that Victoria Brown said that —the basic /25.Yes, sir. i 2 i J Min-U-Seripti Grigsby Reporting Services (13) Pages 49 - $2 (S01) 580-8117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner duly 23,20 [ Page 53 z Page §5 1 .Q And in response to that post, you wrote = 1.Q Doyou remember a letter from the FOP? 2 excuse me, 2 A Idoremember getting a letter from the FOP. 3. In response to the complaints by the FOP -- 3. Q_ And the FOP complained because the language 4A. Yes,sir: 4 glorified gang members? So eee pote the memo or email in notsure | 8A. I doremember language like tha. Yes, sc | © how you would classify it that offended — well, | 6 Q_Doyouremember them complaining tha ithad | 7 itsays what it says, but you wrote that, correct? | +7 Iyrcs that were degrading to women in some context? 8A Correct 8 A. [don't remember that sentence, I remember 9 Q Did Mr. Moore talk to you about the complaints 9. about the violence, 10. he had received concerning 21 Savage being liked on 10 Q_ Do you remember them complaining about the 411 the police department Facebook? 111 language of (quote) we kill one, we kill five, which 432 A. Tdon't know if he had mentioned if he had 412. was directed tothe killing of the police officers in 13 himself received complains. I think that my 1 Dallas, Texas? 14 understanding is that he was aware that ithad caused | 14 AI remember that reference, 15. acontroversy within the department. 15 Q_ Do you think somebody — that the police 16 Q And had it caused a controversy within the 16 department — strike that. 117 community? 17 That Ms, Brown should have known that liking [28,4 Idont know ifthis had rose tothe communiy 18. somebody that has no problem with the murder of five |19. standpoint. That one fm not sure, 19 police afficers wouldnt cause disruption? 120. Q Okay. |20 MR, MANN: Object tothe form. Go ahead. 21 Butyou did know it had caused a problem within [21 A_ Ms. Brown was a relatively new — year-or-so, 22 the police department? 22. year-and-s-half civilian employee in our police 23. A Yes,sir. 23. agency, She came into contact with Mr, 21 Savage ‘24 Q And had significant issues from the FOP, 24 while atendinga law enforcement conference, The 25. comect? 25. law enforcement conference host, N.0.B.L-E, invited | Page 54 Page 55 1 A. From members ofthe FOP. Yes sir. 4. 21 Savage to be a part ofa panel, Because ofthe 2.Q_ And you had, in fact, otten a formal letter 2. context to which she came into contact with his hip 3. from the FOP complaining about the post? 3 hop artist, I don’ think that she saw the unintended 4A. That's correct 4 consequences of putting someone like that as an 5 Q Did you terminate Ms. Brown? 5 example of saying it's cool tobe a police officer on 6A. Ldid not {6 our website and there was some unintended 7 Q. She caused disruption inthe police department 7 consequences ofthat. @ by like 21 Savage, didn’t she? {8 But the context to which she met the artist and ° MR. MANN: Object tothe form. 9. the context to which the artist was used by the law 10 A. The post that she put with 21 Savage did cause 110. enforcement organization asa bridge to speak to |i. isruption within the police department, 112 youth, T eould see how she thought it would be okay ‘12 Q. (By Mr. Newcomb) But she wasn terminated for _|32 to post that. Of cours, it didnot work out that 13 i 13 way. 14 A She was not terminated because in contrast to 14 Q. Doyou know an officer named Thaddeus McRae? 15. the three individuals that were fired, Mr. —~ the 35 A Ido. 116 words that you're asking me about in the 16 Q_ Did you promote him to sergeant? 117 imerrogatory, none of those words were placed on our 17 AI think Ldid. Yes, sir. ‘18 Facebook page nor were any of those associated with Q [she lieutenant now? 19. the post, Ms,— the FOP took issue with Mr. ~ 21 19 A He'salicutenant, 20. Savage's history of talking about violence on the 20 Q_ Did you promote him to lieutenant? 21. heels of the Power Ultra Lounge shooting and they 21 A. I did promote ~ I know I promoted him to ‘22. felt that that was in poor taste. At no time do 1 22. lieutenant. '23. believe that they aniculated that they have an issue 23. Q Has Mr. MeRac had incidents that ae in his ile 24 with Mr, Savage's description or language about women | 24. that the community would be upset about? 125 orthe "N" word. 25 A. I know he has significant discipline history | l pene J Min-U-Seript Grigsby Reporting Services (14) Pages 53-56 (601) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner H uly 23, 2018 (ae ie Page 57 Page 89 || 1 over his 20-year span or whatever, but it's possible 1 Department? | 2 that someone inthe community could be upset about | 2 A. No, si. | 3. his discipline issues, 3 Q_ Did you direct Ms. Brown to delete 21 Savage 4.Q. Well, are you fami 4 from the Facebook? 5 history where he stood on the hood of a carat about 5A ldid. L4th and Main talking about Fuck the pigs. Fuck the | 6 Q_ Was thatat the direction of anybody else? Did 7 cops? 7. Mr. Moore direst you to do that? {8 A. [dont remember reading something like that 8A Noir. 9 about him. | 9 Q Didhe suggest that you do that? 10 Q Would that cause disrespect of him by fellow 10 A No,sir. 411 officers ihe had had made those kind of comments | Q_Did you talk to Mr, Moore ~ did Mr. Moore talk 22 and they knew i 12. toyou about her like of 21 Savage prior to you 13.A Iteould. 12 having her take it down? 114 Q__Did you review his personnel fle when you 14 A. Wetook it down fairly early I think when it was 15. promoted him to lieutenant? 15. controversial, Tm not sure chronologically when Mr. 16 A_ [did review his file. 116 Moore and I spoke. I believe I learned of the 17 Q_ Soyou would have seen tha information? 17 controversy while Iwas stil in Atlanta, 18 A I dont know if would have saw the specific 18 Q_ Did Mayor Stodola talk to you about i? 19. language or fact findings inthe case. When Treview 29 A. I don't recall talking to Mayor Stodola about 20. thei files for discipline, one ofthe things that I 20 it 21. fist look at is I look at the types of discipline 21 Q Any board members? 22 that they have, the amount of days that they have and [22 A Don't recall speaking to any board members about ‘23. then the dats that are stamped on there a to what 23 it ‘24 peri that it actully occurred. 24 Q Did the mayor have any conversations with you ‘25 Q_ Did you ever consult with the FOP leadership 25. about the termination of Ms. Jones? Poge 8 | Page 60 41. about whether its members would object to working 1A. Noysir. 2 with Ms. Jones? 2.Q_Didhe have any conversations with you about the 3A Thave—no, Ihave never had a conversation 2. termination of Mr. Schiefelbein? 44 with FOP about Ms, Jones. 4A Nosit, And when Isay Ihave no conversations 5 Q_ What about Me. Schiefelbein? 5 with him about the mayor, that's during the process 6A Have not. 6 oF as part ofthe investigation I've had no 7-Q Now, on Brandon Gurley, no matter what you 7 discussion with the mayor. Now, could he have said, @ decided about on the post he made — his seléposton | 8 Hey. Tread something or I saw something, Is that 9. Facebook, you would have fired him any way because of | 9 true or something — something to that effect, but 20 Iying in the Internal Affairs investigation? 10. nothing about ~ substantive or decision-making with 31 A_ Sustained untruthfulness results in termination 11 our process. 32. in our agency. 12 Q_ Did the mayor ever indicate whether he agreed 13 Q Regardless of whatever else there may be, 13. with your decision? |4 comect? 14 A Wehave never had that kind of discussion. as MR. MANN: Object othe form. 15 Q And that was either to Ms, Jones or Mr. 16 MR, NEWCOMB: That's probably too broad, [16 Schiefelbein? 37 PMwithdeaw it 17 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sr. 38 Q Are you familiar with a former officer named 19 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) But inhi particular case, 19 Jason Butler? 20. uniruthfulness would not be excused or justified? 20 A Lam, sir. ‘22 A Itwould not. Sir. 21 Q. Onhhs firs incident that he was suspended for, 22 Q_ IsMs, Jones eligible for employment? 22. did anybody recommend that he be terminated? 23 A Not withthe Little Rock Police Department. 23 A_ I don't remember the offense to which you are 24 Q_ IsMr. Schiefelbein eligible 24. referencing. 25 Q. For employment with the Little Rock Police 25 Q. Had he had any ~ did — specifically do you Min-ti-Seript Grigsby Reporting Services (15) Pages 57 - 60 (501) 80-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner | 1 remember whether @ captain referred to him as a 2 “predator?” 3A Ido remember that language. 4. And who was that captain? 5A. [believe it was Captain Mike Davis. 6 Q_ And that was in regards to how Mr, Butler was 7 interacting with women using his postion asa police 8 officer, correct? ‘9 A. Something to that effect. Yes, sir. Q And you disagreed with Captain Davis that you 11. didnt think Mr. Butler was a predator, correct? 12 A Based upon the behavior for the file to which -- 13. where that language was used, I did not feel like 114 that predator” was appropriate language because in |15 my mind [kind of associated predatoral language 116 with criminal behavior versus inappropriate 117 violations of our policies and general orders. 18 Q. So would you consider somebody who has a pattern ‘of sexual harassment as a predator even if it wasn't criminal? ‘21 A I would have to know the context ofthe sexual harassment. ‘23 Q Now, Mr. Butler ultimately resigned, correct? 124 A That's correct. 25 Q And his resignation was during an investigation ‘of him picking up a girl and taking her home? A That's correct. Q Picking her up in his role as a police officer? ‘A. don't know if he picked her up in his role as place officer. I believe at some point during their encounter she leamed he was a police officer, ‘but I don’t remember if he identified as a police officer in the beginning of that interaction with those two. (10. Q_ Okay. 11 Buthe resigned, correct? 12 A Hedid resign. 13 Q And have you asked that he be decertified as a 114 police officer? 15 A We plan to do that at some point. 16 Q When did he resign? 17 A A couple of weeks or so ago. 18 Q Butas we sit here today, he hasn't been -- 119 there's not been a request for decertification? 20 A Ithas not, sir. 21 Q Any particular reason it hasn't? 22 A Well, we have processes in our police department 23. and I just know that that particular request has not 124 made it to my desk yet, but it is something that has 25. been discussed and that we plan to pursue. Page 61 Page 62 Grigsby Reporting Services Chief Kenton T. Buckner July 23, 2018 Page 63 5 A African American males. Yes, 6 Q Doyou have any similar program for Hispanic 7 males? @ A. Atthis time we do not. No, sr. 9. Doyou have any program such as it for Caucasian 10. males? 11 A We donot. 12 Q__Isa~ does the program require thatthe 13. officers assigned to itbe African American? 14 A. Itdoes. 15 Q_ And who funds that program of segregation? 16 MR. MANN: Object to the form. 17 A. The program is partially funded through private 18 dollars and then also salaries and benefits ofthe 119. individuals that work there are paid for by the City 20 of Little Rock. 21 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) Do you think thatthe citizens 22 of Little Rock may be upset that their money is being ‘23 spent for a program that only benefits one class of 24 individuals? 25 A. That's possibility | e Page 64 @ Do you support that program? A. -do support the program. Q Why havertt you started ~ strike that Do males ~ young males in the Hispanic community face problems of unemployment higher than whites, criminal arests higher than whites on a percentage basis? MR. MANN: Object to the form. 9 Q_ (ByMr. Newcomb) If you know? [10 A. Yeah, Twas going to say I don’t know if 111 would able to definitively say that particular 12 statement. No, sir. I don't know if I would be able 13. to say that 14 Q_ Have you gotten any legal opinions atthe city 115. supporting a program that is racially ~ strike that. 16 ‘That prohibits by the terms of it other than blacks 117 to participate init as legal or not? 18 A. First, there are opportunities for other races 19. toparticipate in activities of the program, but they 20 are not allowed to be (quote) (unquote) members. Te ‘21 issues and questions that you raise I have raised 122 these questions with our — at a city board meeting 23. specifically because of some other things that were 24 going on. So 'm aware thatthe ~ that city 25 officials are aware of the existence of the program. | (16) Pages 61 - 64 (501) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner Suly 23, ‘Page 65 Page 67 1 And itis my understanding that it was developed 1A twas determined that she did make the 2. because of the disproportionate impact to African 2 comments. I do not believe she received discipline 3 American males in our city and specifically their 3 asa result of the comments when we considered the | 4 involvement in our criminal justice system and their 4 totality of circumstances in the context ofthe | 5 performance in the academic environment of our public | 5 statement that she said, 6 schools. 6 Q Okay. 7. Have you done any studies of whether the same 7 Can you provide under the protective order a copy 8 problems ~ issues — I don't care what — I'm not @ of that investigation? 9 trying to trick you, I'm just trying to figure out & ° MR, MANN: Sure. 10 word that would apply also in the Hispanic community? |20 Q (By Mr. Newcomb) And also on the individual who 11 A. I believe that there's disproportionate issues 11. had the complaint about going to Red River? 12. in our Hispanic community and we have done things to |12 A Yes, si 13. try to address that, 13 Q_ And I'm staying off the names tight now. 14 Q- But you haven't set up any program where the 14 Captain Washington's I used that because that had 15. members of it would be limited to Hispanic males? 115. already been inthe news medi 16 A. Youth I have not had a program specifically |ae a Yessir. 17 at youth, Ihave developed a Hispanic citizen's 17. Q. Have you made any inquiry of whether Chief Fulk 18 police academy to where anyone in the public can 18 had used the "N" word in any fashion since she was 19 attend specifically targeting Hispanics because 1 19 217 20 realized that there is a gap between the Hispanic 20 MR. MANN: Object to that question. (21 community and our police department, 21 ‘That's part of an objection to — you've ‘22 Q You indicated in your answers to interrogatories 22 talked about moving to compel us. But at '23 that there was a situation where an African American |23.—_ this particular point, I ~ 24 officer complained about going to Red River Arsenal 24 MR. NEWCOMB: Well, the question was a 25. with all whites? 25 little bit different than whether she sa Page 66 Page 68 1A Yessir. 1 it, Lasked whether he had made any inquiry 2 Q Without going into the name of the officer on 2 of her whether she had said itor not. ‘3 the record, [ understand that that officer received a 3 MR. MANN: I understand, But based upon | 4 reprimand; is that correct? 4 the fact that the eity objected tothe 5A. That's correct. 5 interrogatory to begin with, 6 Q Was that expressing — did you take that \6 ‘MR. NEWCOMB: Are you instructing him 7 officer's complaint as being that she did not want to 7 not to answer? {8 associate with — or he didn't want to associate with 8 MR. MANN: Yeah. To preserve our 9 whites? 9 objection 10 A. After looking at totality of circumstances, I 10 Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) Did you have any conversation 411. think it was bad humor along racial lines that 111. about whether to terminate either one of these |12 offended some individuals. 112. individuals with Stacey Witherwell? 13 Q_ She wasn't terminated or he wasnt terminated? 33 MR. MANN: And you mean Ms. Jones and Mr 114 A He was not terminated. 14 Schiefelbein? 15 Q_ Tread in the paper so that's why I'm saying 15 MR. NEWCOMB: Yeah. 116 that there was a complaint made by former officers _|16 A I vaguely remember possibly the HR being made 417. Ralph Brashears concerning Captain Washington making |17- aware of our decisions ther, but I can't 100 percent 418 some racially - what could be racial comments about _|18 say when or if we discussed it with Ms. Witherwell. |29. the makeup of squads. Are you familiar with that? 19 Q_ (By Mr. Newcomb) Let me say what I think you 20.A Yessir. 20 said, and — kind of where it's clear in my mind. ‘21 Q_ Was there any investigation done of whether 21, You can't — you can't remember whether you talked 22 Captain Washington had made racial comments? 22. with her before or after the terminations? 23.A. There was an investigation 23 A. Yes, sir. Or if talked to erat all about 24 Q_ And what was the results ofthat investigation 24 the terminations, bu I think at some point they were ‘25 as to what — whether she made those comments or not? |25 made aware of it. Im just not 100 percent sure. Min-U-Seript Grigsby Reporting Services (17) Pages 65 - 68 (S01) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner ‘The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner i ‘uly 23, 201 f Page 8 | age 7 |. Q Okay. 1 MR. MANN: [think you~ may 1 | 2 And, again, because it—when you sty they were 2 interject? | 3 made aware oft, do you have any memory of making | 3 ‘MR. NEWCOMB: Yeah, 4 them aware of what was going on occurred prior tothe | 4 MR. MANN: [think we can redact the name 5 terminations or after the terminations? 5 fromany filing. 6 A. That I don't remember. ‘ MR. NEWCOMB: Okay. 7.Q Okay. 1 MR. MANN: If you want to ask him, go 8 Did you have had any conversations with any 8 ahead. '9_members ofthe Civil Service Commission before or ° MR. NEWCOMB: | was just trying to ~ 110 after the terminations of the two? 10 A. Sir, and! don't remember the name. 1 remember 11 A [don't remember discussing this with civil 411. the discussion with Chief Finks about an officer, but 12 service. 412 Idon't remember the officer's name. 13 Q After you put out the memo that we talked 13 Q (By Mr, Newcomb) Do you have any records atthe 114. about - 'm going to call it clean up your social 14 police department that would indicate the officer's 15. media 15 name? 16 A. Yes sir 16 A [don't know if| would have any records. I'm 17 Q. did you have the Internal Affairs Division or 117 pretty sure Chief Finks will remember the officer's 116 supervisors check their employees Facebook pages to |18 name, though. 19. see if they complied with the order? 19 Q. Would you check with Chief Finks and give that 20 A. Our workforce, no, sir. Ido not remember that 20 name to~ okay. 21. kind of instruction to Intemal Affairs. 21 Did you no, would you agree that there's a 22 Q_ Did you instruct them to — when you say '22 generational difference in how the “A” word and the ‘23 “workforce,” would that include recruits, 23. “ER™ word is viewed? ‘24 and former officers? I'm just trying to have it 24 A. [believe thatthe generational difference is '25 clarified as to 25 one interpretation ofthat word, but I believe that Page 70 Page 72 1A don't remember giving that instruction to 1 there are many. 2 either, but I would not have asked Internal Affairs 2 Q Would you~ do you understand whether the “A” 3. todo recruits. That would have been done by the 3 version of it is more acceptable inthe millennial 4 training academy. 4 generation than iti inthe older baby boomer 5 Q_ Doyou remember asking the training academy to 5 generation? 6 go through the recruits Facebook pages to see if 6 A_ Lamaware of that. Yes, sit. 17 there was anything improper after you issued your 7 ‘MR. NEWCOMB: I'm not sure really which 8 memo? 8 generation you belong to because you're in 9 A Idon't remember doing tha ether, 9 between the two. 10 Q And what about before the memo? 10 ‘THE WITNESS: Iam, 32 A_ don't remember any blanket investigation of a MR. NEWCOMB: What do they ~ off the 12. our recruits or officers other than individuals who 12 record. 13 were the subject of investigations. 33 (THEREUPON, after a brief discussion was 414 Q- Are you aware of any officers writing songs and 14 held offthe-record, the proceedings resumed 15. publishing them that had in tthe use ofthe °N* 115 as follows, to-wit) 16 word in either variation? 16 Q_ (ByMr. Newcomb) Do you think your memo and the 17 A. T'mnot aware of an officer having the "N" word 117 rules and regulations make it clear that quoting 48 in their — in a lyrics. I do remember something 418 artists in your own Facebook post violates Section 19. about an officer who on the side was doing some form 191-4003? ‘20 of music that said that they had offensive language. 20 ‘THE WITNESS: What section is that? ‘21. I don't remember if they identified it specifically 2 MR. NEWCOMB: It's the good ~ i's sort 22 asthe "N" word. 22 ofthe ~ well, where's the termination 23.Q. Okay. 23 letter? 124 Who how do I want to handle this, Would you |24 MR. MANN: I's right here. 25. agree to provide that name and the file? 28 ‘THE WITNESS: Repeat your question. Grigsby Reporting Services (18) Pages 69-72 (501) 580-5117Brandon Schiefelbein and Katina Jones v. Chief Kenton T. Buckner The City of Little Rock and Kenton Buckner ‘uly 23, 2018 fr Page 73 | 2 Page 75 [1 @ (yMr.Newsomb) Do youthink hat tht policy | 2A That a possibility | 2 leary makes the use of quotes ncudng the “A 2. Q Did any officer come to you and say that they | 3. word —"N-1-G-G-A"— violates that policy? 3. would not be comfortable working with Ms, Jones 4A Yes,sir. 4. because of her language from when she was 16? 5. Q_ Inwhat way? 5A. No,sit. 6 A. Because if it would bring justified criticism of 6 Q_ Any member of the community make any comments 7 the officer or the department, it would be a 7 about Ms, Jones's use of the language from the time 8 violation, 8 she was 16? 9 Q. Soany type of comments that would bring 9A. I don't remember any specific individuals. 1 10 justifiable criticism would be a violation? 410 just remember that it received significant attention 11 A Potentially 412 and coverage the same as the Schiefelbein/Gurley 12 Q_ How do you know which ones — which words do and. |12 incident. 13 dont? 13 Q Was there any media attention conceming Ms. 14 A. Its subjective, 14 Jones prior to your termination of her? 15 Q_ Subjective by you? And I'm not meaning that 15 A. During the investigation, yes, sr, Just the 16 any chief? 16 investigation 17 A Subjective by any chief or any member ofthe 47 Q. What media sources did it have that covered Ms. 18 department or any member of our community 18 Jones during the investigation part? 19 Q Do youhave any beliefs whether Sergeant Davis [19 AT don't remember the specific outlets. 1 know 120 isaracist? 20 that a number of our local outlets mentioned the ‘21 A. Thave no information to lead me to think that |21. incident and I know that there were some outside of 22. Sergeant Davis is racist 22 our city and state that had information about it as 23 Q. Doyou have any information that leads you to 23 well. 24 believe Sergeant Davis does not like Caucasians? 24 Q And where i's real clear as faras your 25 A Ihave no information that would lead me to 25. testimony goes, okay, you're saying that that existed Pogo 74 Page 76 1. believe that Sergeant Davis does not like Caucasians. 1. prior to the termination of Ms Jones and the public 2.Q Doyou have any information that Brandon Gurley | 2 release of her termination? 3. did not like whites? 3A Prior to her being terminated, yes, sit. There 4A Something to that effect was said I think during ‘4 was coverage about the investigation. Yes, sir. '5 the investigation ~ maybe in one of our interviews 5.Q Okay. {6 or something or maybe Im getting a deposition mixed 6 —_Andif there wasn't ~ none can be found, are 7 imthere, But I remember that it's been alleged that | 7. you saying that that would show you were untruthful? {8 he took issue with white co-workers and employees. 8 A. [believe that the information that I'm giving 9 Q. InMs. Jones — 9 you here today I'm testifying tothe best of my 10 MR. MANN: Okay. 110 knowledge and recollection and in no way, shape or jaa MR. NEWCOMB: He was checking on 111 form have I meant to mislead or be untruthful in my a2 something. 12. statement, a3 ‘THE WITNESS: No, sir. I'm good. Go 13 Q Soan inaccurate statement doesn't necessarily 24 ahead. 14 mean i's an untruthful statement? 15 MR. NEWCOMB: Oh, okay. 1 just didn't 15 A That's subjective, too. You could say Tm 16 know if you were having to check on 116 lying and Mr. Mann would say that he was misquoted, 17 something. 17 Q__Lwant to ask you about this document that 1 ae ‘THE WITNESS: No, sit. 18 have marked as Exhibit ! — and I realize the source 39 Q (ByMr. Newcomb) What would have happened to |29. of this is highly unreliable, It alleges — if you ‘20 Ms, Jones if she had refused to open her Facebook 20 will look at Page 2 of it, italleges that you that ‘21 pages for Sergeant Stephens? ‘21 you, Chief, goby the screen name of “negropapi” ~ 22 A There would have potentially been discipline 22 N-E-G-R-O-P-A-P-L, Is that you? 23 issues with that, 23.A. Yes, sit. 24 Q Would that have been up to and including 24 Q_ Do you use your city phone to receive responses ‘25 termination’ 25. to your posts? Min-U-Seripti Grigsby Reporting Services (19) Pages 73 - 76 (S01) 380-5117