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11/1/2018 Younger Canadians Not Interested In Raising Families In Condos: Study : canada

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Younger Canadians Not Out for a Canoe, Emerald Lake, BC - /u/liam_l25


1548 Interested In Raising Families In
Condos: Study (huffingtonpost.ca) search
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[–] TomorrowMay [score hidden] 5 hours ago
I'd be happy to live in a condo or apartment my entire Submit a new text post
life if only it came with a garage! Kids aren't exactly a
priority for me, but god damn do I wish I had
somewhere to do hobby projects and change my own subscribe 420,205 Canadians
oil.
5,748 here now
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[–] 78513 [score hidden] 2 hours ago


We decided on this descrip on politely.

You're spot on. Decent shared amenities with a Nous parlons français ici aussi!
garage would go a long way in convincing people.
Developers are stuck in the condos are apartment's Please note that users new to the subreddit might
you own mind set. experience pos ng limita ons un l they become
more ac ve and longer members of the community.
Condos like Fraser or even better, like Niles from
If you experience any issues with this, please don't
Fraser would be much better. Combine that with a
hesitate to contact the moderators.
row of garages and then well talk. 1500 sq feet plus
storage at a reasonable price. Upcoming AMAs
Hell, you could even put in a few "garage bays" | Who | Date | Time |
with lifts for those who want to work on their car Chris an Borys - Journalist | Oct 22nd | 12-3pm EST
and otherwise keep underground parking.
Jenny Yuen - Author |Nov. 5 | 1-3pm EST
permalink embed save parent report reply
Rules
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11/1/2018 Younger Canadians Not Interested In Raising Families In Condos: Study : canada
[–] DrDerpberg [score hidden] an hour ago* Detailed rules can be found here.
In my city, a downtown underground parking The moderators of r/Canada reserve the right to
spot is worth about $50k. Even in not-so- moderate posts and comments at their discre on,
desired neighborhoods they sell for $20k at a with regard to their percep on of the suitability of
minimum. How would developers monetize a said posts and comments for this subreddit. Thank
garage to make that kind of money back? you for your understanding.
permalink embed save parent report reply Do:
[–] silentraquo [score hidden] 44 minutes ago
be excellent to each other!
I'd pay for that (hello from Vancouver). follow reddique e.[4]
report content that is hateful, spam, or off-
I want a garage / workshop, and absent of
topic.
this utopian option, my other alternative is
to buy a detached house or townhouse, and Don't:
that is usually a much larger premium than
$50K, and often comes with other be rude or hos le[2]
disadvantages (lower density / less resort to insults based on race, gender, sex,
walkable neighbourhood / poor transit, etc.) sexual orienta on, or poli cal and religious
beliefs[2]
It's not a huge market for people like me, post users' personal informa on
but developers could definitely monetize at editorialize submission tles[1]
least a few spots like this in a big building. make low content posts (including images of
permalink embed save parent report reply memes, scenery, or generic pictures, etc[6][7]
use link shorteners (i.e. bit.ly, nyurl)
[–] drumstyx [score hidden] 35 minutes ago
This makes me sick I can talk numbers Canadian subreddit network
about houses and condos all day (not that A complete lis ng can be found here.
I'm ok with the prices in southern Ontario),
but when we talk about 10s of thousands Provinces
for something as mundane as a parking
spot, my stomach churns and I want
absolutely nothing to do with an
environment where that happens. I get the
economics of it, I just don't want to
associate with it. Fuck. Toronto.
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[–] OkChipmunk [score hidden] an hour ago
Yes! Just to to any major city in Europe and
you'll see how the buildings with flats are
structured. Generally they're built large enough
to accommodate a family of three or four
people. In fact, you won't see a lot of single
family homes in their downtown because they
are densely populated. We need more flats in + Ci es
Canadian cities similar to European style ones.
+ Professional Sports
permalink embed save parent report reply
+ Other
[–] Nutchos [score hidden] 1 hour ago
Niles from Fraser
Links
Didn't he live in like a mansion?
OpenParliament.ca - Keep tabs on Parliament
permalink embed save parent report reply Official Ci zenship and Immigra on Canada
website
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[–] pureham [score hidden] 1 hour ago Filters
I’ve been saying this for years. I would be all Filter out the Ontario elec on
over that. A condo with my own heated garage! Filter out TRADE WAR 2018

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[–] moltar [score hidden] 1 hour ago moderators message the moderators
There are garages where you can rent space by the
hour and they have all the tools. I don't remember qgyh2
the name now, but I think it was somewhere in Lucky75
Verdun. AutoModerator
There are maker spaces where for a membership Perma
you can go and do anything from wood working to medym
3D printing. There are several of these in town. stygarfield
I think these kind of offerings will only become di omuch
better with time. AbsoluteTruth
EDIT: Regre ulEduca on
http://garageauto7jours.com/ gwaksl
https://www.yellowpages.ca/bus/Quebec/Terrebonn ...and 8 more »
e/Mecanique-Plus-Laval-A-W/4143491.html
permalink embed save parent report reply < > discussions in r/canada X

786 · 211 comments


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So every Canadian is en tled to a free portrait
load more comments (7 replies) of the Queen, just received mine yesterday.

[–] WontSwerve [score hidden] 4 hours ago


Huffpost: Youngpeople want the same quality of life for
their children that they had growing up.
No, REALLY?
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[–] pinkcrushedvelvet [score hidden] 1 hour ago


“Kids these days won’t just live in shitty housing and raise an entire generation that doesn’t know
what it’s like to have a yard and play in the grass, WHATS WRONG WITH THEM?!”
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[–] Frankfurter [score hidden] 39 minutes ago


All these kids do these days is stay inside and play on their videogames, we used to play
outside all the time. /s
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[–] Get_over_crush 678 points 6 hours ago
Is this really surprising?
People want to raise their kids where they have a backyard to play in, and a quiet street too.
They don't want to raise their kids in a what amounts to a nice apartment, where they'd have to deal
with noisy neighbours and a lack of play space.
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[–] GoingAllTheJay [score hidden] 5 hours ago


People want to raise their kids where they have a backyard to play in, and a quiet street too.
Even if you don't want a huge house, I feel like most people would choose this is they had the
option. But if you want to live anywhere near downtown, there is a limited supply and a tonne of
demand for anything that comes close to fitting the mould.
I don't have kids, but I would obviously rather live on one of the central, residential streets that
isn't sketchy, than my condo. I'd rather not have to take my dog down an elevator or stairs (he's
getting old). I'd rather not see cigarette butts falling past my balcony. That shit costs money.
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[–] friesandgravyacct [score hidden] 1 hour ago

there is a limited supply and a tonne of demand


If only the government would investigate the makeup of the demand. All anecdotal evidence
points to a very large portion of it being foreign, but the government is the only one that has
access to the necessary data to know for sure. But for some unfortunate reason, they refuse to
investigate it or even discuss it beyond "we'll look into it further in the next 4 years or so".
What a curious state of affairs.
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[–] igotyournacho [score hidden] 54 minutes ago


There ha$ got to be $ome rea$on they ju$t letting it $lide... but I can't $eem to think of
one right now
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[–] flightless_mouse [score hidden] 5 hours ago

Well, they probably want to experience what they experienced as kids, and space was more
plentiful (and cheaper) once upon a time.
If designed right, though, you can have high density housing and a perfectly fun and nice
childhood. Greener cities with more shared recreational space (e.g., public parks) help. It works
well in some cities.
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[–] dbcanuck [score hidden] 4 hours ago

in europe apartment blocks are much more amenable to families. 2 and 3 bedroom condos are
commonplace. usually they have L shaped configurations in low rise blocks, so you have a
separation of living and sleeping space. there's a courtyard (with planting plots even) for
young kids to play. usually there's some common areas near the roof or in the basement.
here we have skyscrapers that are great for boomers and/or DINK, and highly undesirable
during family years.
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[–] originalthoughts [score hidden] 1 hour ago


Also the rules from the nicer condo buildings are very unfriendly towards families and
children. They rules are basically made for old people.
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[–] upsidedownbackwards [score hidden] 38 minutes ago


Yea, our place wasn't allowed to ban kids because of laws and such, but there were so
many parts on the agreement such as that you would be fined $xxx if your kid is ever
without parent supervision or $xxx if there's a noise complaint against a child. They
pretty much insured it would be child and pet free.
I loved it though. I had just come out of a complex where the kids ran free and the
pets weren't cleaned up after.
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[–] hedgecore77 [score hidden] 1 hour ago

In Canada, architects don't see the need to have two 6 foot walls facing each other
because everyone watches TV with their neck cranked 90 degrees to the left or right, and
800 square feet is perfect for a two bedroom layout because bedside tables and queen size
beds and up are so passé.
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[–] galexanderj [score hidden] 1 hour ago

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And, some of the complaints like, "noisy neighbors" or "lack of outdoor space for
children and/or pets" is a developer and government problem.
The developers are developing for profit. If they can save some costs by not sound
proofing, they will, even if it creates a better end product and will attract good tenants.
Same goes for outdoor recreational spaces. The government could rectify this by
mandating adequate minimum levels of sound isolation, as well as mandating a certain
"square footage" of outdoor recreational spaces based on the number of units in a
building.
Another way to reduce the public expenditure for parks and green spaces would to be
to add "mandatory green/recreational space" be included in any type of construction
development. "Want to build and maintain 100 car surface parking lot? Sure, so long
as you build and maintain an equivalently large recreational space. You can reduce the
amount to Green space you will be responsible for by creating vertical or underground
parking structures, though there should still be a requirement in these cases too, just
less onerous.
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[–] ma xer [score hidden] 44 minutes ago

Funny enough, I studied the building code and all of what you mentioned does
exist to a certain degree! Likely not to the same extent as you would personally
like, but it is a trade off. Every time a requirement like that is added, places get
more expensive, and the building code has to be applied evenly to all buildings of
that type. So if a builder has a break even sale price of $400,000 per unit in order
to meet all requirements. They’re going to build it somewhere where they can get
their money’s worth, and not at Jane and finch, even though there’s demand there
as well. This is part of the reason why housing has become so expensive in
Toronto.
TLDR: consistently increasing building code requirements are bad for poor people.
Especially when there’s high demand over a large region.
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[–] Ferivich [score hidden] 5 hours ago

My wife and I would love to start a family in a condo. The issue here in Ottawa is that to buy a
condo that meets our space needs we're either buying an older condo that is not worth
upgrading or spending more than a single family home costs.
A three bed, two bath condo at 1600-1800 sq.ft shouldn't be a rarity when it comes to what's
available.
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[–] Zelrack [score hidden] 4 hours ago


spending more than a single family home costs.
I got downvoted to hell when I said this the last time but it's true. A small condo is around
the price of a single family home. Who wants to raise a family in a shitty condo when it's
the same price than a house.
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[–] MrGraeme [score hidden] 3 hours ago


You were probably downvoted because that is usually incorrect.
In Ottawa, for example, the cheapest single family home I could find is this which is a
3b 2ba home built in 1965 for $309,900. This was the cheapest property I could find
that would be suitable for raising a family in and that was listed as a house.
If we want a condo with the same number of beds and baths these are our options
that cost less than the house - $296,000 and $278,888. Both of these properties are
about 25 years younger than the house.
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If we want small condos, then they're even cheaper. 2 bed 1 bath condos can be half
as expensive as houses.
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[–] andrewse [score hidden] 3 hours ago


You forgot to factor Condo fees into the equation. Condos with lower prices often
have the highest condo fees. My parents' condo fees are currently higher than the
mortgage payment on my last house and they have zero amenities such as a pool
or park. These fees as well as special assessments are controlled by an elected
board. Other than voting the condo owners have zero control over the fees which
sometimes increase rapidly.
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[–] Tor easor55 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Thanks for the info. Although there are a few important points that I think this
misses.
First, the article (and OP's comment) are referring to "condos" as high-rises (i.e.
apartment style) in the city centre. They're not really talking about rowhouses that
have condo fees.
Second, there are wild variances neighbourhood to neighbourhood. A fair
comparison requires properties in the same area. It's not uncommon to see houses
(semi-detached at least) selling for similar prices to smaller units in nearby condo
towers.
Example: Hintonburg / Little Italy area houses at $489k and $599k vs nearby
condos at $465k to $625k. The condos look smaller and the prices also don't
include condo fees, which have their own issues.
Anecdotally, when I was looking to buy, the condos I could get for the price I
ultimately paid for my house would have been much smaller.
So when OP says that condos cost more than a single family home, it's not correct
100% of the time but it's not uncommon to see - especially when comparing
similar sized units in the same area.
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[–] skybala [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Tokyo has no housing space but the public parks are top notch for families and young people
to do whatever from dinner to violin practice
But it could be a cultural thing too
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[–] Ninjacherry [score hidden] 3 hours ago

One of the nicest things that I observed in Japan was the amount of little kids playing
outside and going to school by themselves, even in Tokyo. We could have that here,
Canada is pretty safe - it's probably a cultural thing.
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[–] TiengAnh [score hidden] 1 hour ago

We did have that when I was a kid in the late 70s-early 80s. I think parents started to
get nervous about unsupervised kids in the 90s. It could change again.

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[–] Vineyard_ [score hidden] 2 hours ago

little kids playing outside and going to school by themselves


Another possibility is that the parents don't have the time to watch over those kids.
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[–] Stupid_ques on_bot [score hidden] 2 hours ago

no, its because the Japanese give their children a lot more agency and respect
their abilities.
we treat our children like functioning retards in the west.
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[–] GekkostatesOfAmerica [score hidden] 1 hour ago

And as a result, most kids turn out like functioning retards because they have
no respect for authority or autonomy.
Kids will always be kids, but I have an inkling that Japanese children respect
their teachers, policemen, and parents a lot more than here.
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[–] NickKnocks [score hidden] 1 hour ago

I was taking the ttc to school when I 10. It's safe but parents these days worry too
much.
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[–] Jericola [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Green space is fine. However, the playing fields and playgrounds in our community are empty
most of the time. I rarely see kids out playing.
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[–] 403youandme [score hidden] 4 hours ago

There's probably some bias going on here. You're not a kid so you don't really know where
the kids are playing. I remember when I moved to my community I thought it was
absolutely dead and that all the parks were empty, until I went for a jog and ran along the
pathways and saw tons of kids playing and riding their bikes.
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[–] superworking [score hidden] 3 hours ago

I think this is part of the problem even if you were okay with condos most of them aren't
geared for family use anyways unless you're way in the upper range of pricing.
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[–] Urban_Empress [score hidden] 4 hours ago

It's not even an issue of the backyard or quiet street. There are almost no options to have 3 or
more bedrooms in a condo. If they exist they are (or can be) more expensive per unit + condo
fees compared to its low-density counterpart. It's not something an average family could afford.
In my city there are tons of condo townhomes where the fees cover lawn maintenance and snow
removal (and the like). I'm an able bodied person, and would rather do that myself instead of
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paying an additional $300 towards that service. So yea, I'm not interested in raising a family in
condo if I'm spending more for the unit.
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[–] chambee [score hidden] 4 hours ago


I love living in my condo with my first child. what made it possible was that we had tons of parks
nearby. I would have stayed in my condo if it wasn't for the fact that it only had 2 bedrooms. for
some reason 3 bedrooms condos are a concept no developer understand.
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[–] fan_22 [score hidden] 3 hours ago


for some reason 3 bedrooms condos are a concept no developer understand.
The reason is that it cuts into other units. Less bedrooms = more units = more $$
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[–] clothesgirl [score hidden] 1 hour ago

The other posts are correct but there is another aspect that they aren't considering: most
building code requires bedrooms to have windows (fire code) and it's REALLY hard to design a
condo with 3 bedroom windows that have windows in other rooms, that aren't 1500 sq feet -
making them way out of range for most buyers. If fire code could be amended to recognize
two egress points that don't lead outdoors, three bedroom condos would be MUCH easier to
come by, as they could be created in 800-1000 sq ft.
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[–] ArtHistoryBarista [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I'm actually okay with the idea. I don't intend on having more than one - and maybe my opinion
would change after I had a child. But I'd rather live in a city where they can walk places, take
transit, and have things like museums to visit, libraries, parks to play in.
I grew up in the sticks - huge backyard and a quiet street - but we spent ages in the car driving
everywhere because there was nothing nearby. You couldn't walk to friends' houses, you couldn't
walk to school, library, playground, grocery stores. Nothing was nearby at all and with zero transit
options, I was hugely dependent on getting rides from my parents until I turned 17 and could
drive by myself - and even then I needed to borrow the car!
It's a trade off but a condo is a slightly-more-affordable way to live in a city.
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[–] tacochops [score hidden] 2 hours ago

I have so many fond memories when I lived in the suburbs of walking or biking to my friend's
places and hanging out and playing. Or going to the library, or parks, or the mall. Or playing
outside and making new friends with some of the surrounding neighborhood kids.
Then I moved to the sticks and it's a completely different experience. You explained it exactly
right, there was nothing around, had to get rides to go anywhere and that alone would take a
chunk of time. If you wanted to visit a friend after school you had to make sure someone could
pick you up and give you a ride later. No more spontaneously visiting friends to see if they can
come out to play, everything became planned ahead and you were always dependent on
parents willing to drive you.
There's also the idea of shared interests, when I was a kid in the suburbs I got really into
computers and video games and programming, and there was a group of 10 or so other kids
with very similar interests that we could bond over and share our experiences with and grow
and learn more. In the sticks there was only 1 other kid in my year that had anything close to
a shared interest in computers.
Maybe with self-driving cars they will hit a point where the distance doesn't matter nearly as
much in 2-10 years, but if I had a kid in school today I'd want them to live near other kids
their age.
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[–] ArtHistoryBarista [score hidden] 1 hour ago
Yeah, I remember being really frustrated at the lack of options. The nearest cinema was a
two-room theatre a good 25-30 minute drive from our house and they only brought in
about one new movie a month and would run the film into the ground and then get a new
picture. And they made the WORST choices - they brought in Antz but not A Bug's Life for
crying out loud.
We weren't outdoorsy people (my sister is somehow allergic to most forms of plant-life -
touching grass makes the woman break out in hives) and that's pretty much all there was
to do.
Were pretty whiny kids as a result - my mother tried to ban the word 'bored' one summer.
My grandmother taught us the word 'ennui' and we drove her nuts with that instead.
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[–] Peekman [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I think it's simpler than this.


You want better for your kids than what you had as a kid. Since most grew up in a house, they
want the same for their kid.
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[–] 3irhead [score hidden] 5 hours ago


And crime. My experiences living in lower income apartments and condos was lots and lots of
crime. Waking up seeing the SWAT team throwing a neighbour into a snowbank and cuffing him;
or bullet holes in our family mini-van; having our house robbed more than once.
When I was living in lower income, high density living, I was filing police reports about 1-2 times a
year for crimes that had happened to me. I've since moved to suburb, been living in a detached
house I bought for the last 9 years, and I've only filed a police report once in that time, and it was
because someone hit my car in a parking lot, far away from my home. Night and day really.
We're also not the least bit worried about leaving our house unlocked. When I lived in an
apartment downtown Edmonton, we had some cracked out prostitute just walk into our apartment
and take a shit in our bathroom (without even closing the door). It was one of the most surprising
things I've ever witnessed. Like, if you want your innocence taken away from your kids real quick,
just live in high density areas and there will be plenty of people willing to do that job for you.
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[–] Demonchipmunk [score hidden] 2 hours ago


we had some cracked out prostitute just walk into our apartment and take a shit in our
bathroom
Did you try locking your door?
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[–] NickKnocks [score hidden] 1 hour ago

Ya don't leave your condo unlocked. Drunk people can accidently walk in thinking it's their unit.
(I've done it twice)
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[–] ArtHistoryBarista [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Sure, and my parents house was burglarized three times in five years in a reallllly nice suburb
of Edmonton in the 1990s.
I remember coming home and finding out they'd taken EVEN my big sister's piggy bank. But
not my matching one because I had already emptied it to buy a O'Henry bar. Really upset me
because they were a set.
Crime exists everywhere. Condos don't necessarily equate to crime and suburban housing
doesn't always equate to safety.
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[–] DocJawbone [score hidden] 3 hours ago

100%
This is a total no-brainer
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[–] tropics_ [S] 129 points 6 hours ago

83 per cent of young families would buy a detached home as opposed to any other type of housing.
Only 5 per cent prefer condos.
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[–] levelsixseven 99 points 6 hours ago


You don't say. Who would have thought people prefer an actual house compared to a condo or an
apartment. Crazy times!
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[–] mcrackin [score hidden] 2 hours ago

Lol yeah affording one is another story.


In other news I'd rather live in the British Properties in Westvan than Mission.
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[–] MAGZine [score hidden] 1 hour ago


I like the amenities condos have, not to mention not taking care of the property, being closer
to things, etc.
People who are looking to raise kids unsurprisingly care less about being near bars and
restaurants and clubs.
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[–] gzafiris [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Shit, my fiancee and I would settle for townhomes at this point lol
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[–] OK6502 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

If money was not an issue. The thing is space in a city is a finite resource and it comes at a
premium if you live closer to downtown. As with any finite resource it's about supply and demand.
With little supply and lots of demand prices invariably go up.
And, as a corollary of that, it means it is impossible for everyone who wants one to have a single
bedroom house close to downtown that is affordable. You have to make trade-offs
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[–] SonicFlash01 [score hidden] 2 hours ago

The rest of the people in the condo aren't thrilled at the idea of listening to a newborn either
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[–] Sector_Corrupt [score hidden] 5 hours ago*


I'd be happy to raise a family in a condo, the problem is all the condos we've built are largely too small
for families. If we had more family size units you'd see more people interested in raising families in
them, but when everyone's idea of a condo is "450 sq ft." then yeah, unsurprisingly they're not
popular.

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Edit: Also for more context my wife & I are planning on having children in our current 2 bedroom older
apartment, because 900 sq. ft. isn't all that bad for raising a family in. It won't work forever because
we're planning to have 2 and we want our kids to have their own bedrooms when they're teenagers,
but that still gives us years of raising a family in a perfectly reasonably sized apartment.
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[–] two__sheds [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I have a 3 bed, 1 bath, 870 square foot house and an 8 month old baby. We're planning on having
a second kid in the nearish future. My great grandmother raised 3 teenagers in a house very
similar to ours, right around the corner.
It's not nearly so bad as people make it out to be! With clever use of storage space and minimizing
the junk you keep around, you don't need a huge house to raise kids. It's actually great being in a
small house because it's easier to keep clean.
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[–] mamoocando [score hidden] 4 hours ago


I live in a 2 bed, one bath, 850 square foot house. Our master bedroom just has enough space
for our queen sized bed, the 2nd bedroom would only fit a twin sized bed (it's an office now),
then it's just the kitchen, living room, and bathroom. Which aren't very big at all. How do you
have room for a third bedroom??
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[–] two__sheds [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Our house feels like the TARDIS at times. It's one of those teeny one story rowhouses with
a window on either side of the front door where you wonder how it could even be divided
into rooms. We're lucky we've got 9 foot ceilings or it would be downright claustrophobic.
We do have some rooms that are surprisingly good sized, though!
Front hall 12x3 Dining room 11x12 Living room 15x12 (includes hallway) Bedroom 1
10x10 Bathroom 6x8 Bedroom 2 8x8 Kitchen 13x13 (Yay!) Bedroom 3 10x10
All approximate, of course. I guess I kind of cheated because there's also a basement,
maybe 10x20, that's really more of a crawlspace (parts of it are still dirt) that we use for
storage and laundry.
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[–] Sector_Corrupt [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Yeah I think a lot of the difference is just "good use of storage", "non-wasteful square footage"
and a willingness to pitch things you don't need. I grew up in a house & for much of my
childhood huge chunks of the basement were wasted space. We have childhood toys hanging
around for years after my brother & I were too old for them. Lots of space just seems to lead
to hoarding of stuff longer than necessary.
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[–] OK6502 [score hidden] 3 hours ago


Easier to clean and heat!
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[–] phillysan [score hidden] 5 hours ago

because 900 sq. ft. isn't all that bad for raising a family in
It's interesting to see differences in position on this. I live in a house with about 1500sqft of
finished space and the prospect of adding a kid to that leaves me feeling cramped just thinking
about it
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[–] Tumdace [score hidden] 4 hours ago
Thats my wife and I right now.
We went from a cramped 500 sq ft 1 bdr apartment to a 1200-1300 sq ft 3bdr townhome.
We are expecting a kid in March, and we have one of the bedrooms set aside as the baby's
room, the master is obviously ours, and the 3rd bedroom is our computer/crafts room.
Obviously when we have our 2nd child, that bedroom is going to have to be cleared out for our
first child. So now where does all our stuff go lol? I dont want to have to go back to cramped
living again so it might end up that we throw stuff out and live a more frugal life.
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[–] OK6502 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

As a father of two I can say that once you have kids "your stuff" really doesn't exist. It's
their stuff, all over the place. Our kids are young (3 and 5) so right now they take up most
of our time and the space in the house. I expect that will one day change.
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[–] phillysan [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I hear you. The concept of reshuffling and resquishing everything is extremely unpalatable.
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[–] egamble [score hidden] 4 hours ago

How much space do you use on an everyday basis? Do you live alone or with a partner? That
just seems insane to me, 1500 sqft is enough room for a family of 4 easily.
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[–] phillysan [score hidden] 4 hours ago

It's less about the space and more about it's usage. It's a 2+1 bedroom. There's the
master and another bedroom upstairs, and rec / office space in the basemen. I work from
home so I need the office space to remain as such. That leaves one extra bedroom which
then has to pull double duty as a spare room / kids room. So if someone needs to stay in
the spare room, where does the kid go? It could definitely work for a little while, but not
indefinitely.
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[–] egamble [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Spare bedrooms seem very strange to me. For the handful of nights a year someone
might stay over you are dedicating 1/2 of your sleeping space. Everyone's use case is
different though.
I think people are used to have extra space for "just in case" but you pay for it year
round. In the house I grew up in probably 1/4 of the space was just wasted and used 2
times a year. I live in a much smaller house but the living areas (2 bedroom, office and
living/kitchen/dining room) are used daily.
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[–] Tor easor55 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Spare bedrooms seem very strange to me. For the handful of nights a year
someone might stay over you are dedicating 1/2 of your sleeping space.
I'm the same. Personally, it seems wasteful to spend (lots of) more money on a
larger house (i.e. to get an extra room) and on all the furniture that goes in it, for
something that will sit empty and get no use 99% of the time.
Although I absolutely understand that it's nicer to have family stay with you rather
than at a hotel. It seems a pullout sofa or hideaway bed of some sort is a better
solution
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[–] omers [score hidden] 3 hours ago


We have a spare room and honestly it will almost never be used. Family doesn't
visit often and when they do they typically stay with my parents and we don't host
parties where someone would need to spend the night because they drank too
much.
The only reason we have a third room is that the layout of everything else like the
kitchen, living room, etc was preferable in the 3bdrm compared to a 2bdrm and
the only reason it's furnished as a bedroom and not something else is we had
nothing else to put in there. One bedroom is already our actual bedroom and the
other is an office.
If we ever had a kid (not likely) we would repurpose it in an instant. I am not
attached to having a spare room it's just something that's there.
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[–] Lewandirty [score hidden] 1 hour ago*

Yeah. I've never had a spare room.


In my house growing up, on the few nights a year we did have company, one of
the children forfeited their room and slept on an air mattress or something so the
guest could be comfortable. It always worked fine.
Spare rooms seem like such a waste.
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[–] -SetsunaFSeiei- [score hidden] 4 hours ago

How about a pull out couch in the living area for the passing friend who may need a
bed? That’s what most people who are strapped for space do...
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[–] Gi t89 [score hidden] 2 hours ago

Working from home changes the dynamic completely and should probably have been a
disclaimer in your post. Plus acting like you're 'cramped' because you'd have to give a
spare room to a kid seems very 'first world problems' to me.
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[–] SafeDiscussion5 [score hidden] 4 hours ago

But it's not cramped. You can't occupy all of 1500sqft at once. Big houses with 2 living rooms
and 2 dining areas plus a breakfast nook for 3 or 4 people is too much. Unless you're rich and
want the luxury, there's no need for McMansions.

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[–] Smozdc [score hidden] 4 hours ago


My second bedroom is my office and I'd need to move if a kid came around. So if I want for
one room each it goes to a three bedroom if theres only one. Ugh I love downtown tho.
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[–] Runningman1985 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

1050 square foot, 2 bed 2 bath apartment here. We've got one kid so far, my wife wants a
second but I feel like it could get very cramped very quickly.
If we were only having one I'd have no problem staying here - only real issue is the laundry
facilities are 19 floors down - so laundry isn't fun, but other than that the building is clean and
nice.
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[–] thegreatgoatse [score hidden] 3 hours ago

The idea of adding an SO to my ~900sqft condo has me feeling cramped.


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[–] mrcocoapie [score hidden] 2 hours ago

I grew up in a 900 sq ft condo. It was shit.


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[–] tacochops [score hidden] 3 hours ago


While we're talking about raising families in apartments can we also build apartments/condos more
sound proof? The apartment I'm in was built within the past decade and yet I can hear people
having normal conversations in the hallway, I can hear babies crying from the same floor on the
other end of the building, and people yelling randomly, and I can hear the neighbors above me
walking around.
It's terrible for everyone involved and there's not much that can be done after the building is
already made. If the sound problem was resolved I could see myself having a family in a ~950 sqft
apartment, although it would be a bit cramped.
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[–] fauxdragoon [score hidden] 3 hours ago

I could not imagine rasing our three kids in a condo. They're so loud.
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[–] Sector_Corrupt [score hidden] 3 hours ago

That's another issue with modern condos, poor sound isolation. My older apartment building I
never hear any neighbours because we've got a reasonable amount of concrete between units.
Pretty much the only time you hear anything in our building is when people are in the
hallways, because the sound can get through the door but not the walls.
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[–] IdleOsprey [score hidden] 3 hours ago


Exactly this. A 300 sq ft condo is fine for a couple, but you need to make some decent sized ones
for families. Look at European units.
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[–] OK6502 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

I had my first in a 900ft apartment. It was fine. Once we had 2 that changed completely though.
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[–] cryptohobo [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Yup, there was even an article I read once that explained there’s been a boom in breeding micro
sized dogs because it’s more feasible for the condos. Imagine using a Murphy bed that converts to
a kitchen table, having a tea cup bred dog that lives half its normal life span because of health

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complications from being bred so small, and sharing a BBQ on a rooftop patio with 30 other
people. While paying monthly maintenance fees. What a life.
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[–] Sector_Corrupt [score hidden] 2 hours ago

Beats lifeless urban sprawl & a 70 minute commute one way.


Also it wasn't that long ago that people in this country were raising more kids in smaller
houses than we keep building now. These 2500 - 3000 sq. ft. monstrosities are full of
underused space. You don't exactly need to live in a tiny house arrangement to manage 900 sq
ft.
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[–] 0987654231 152 points 6 hours ago

Most people want more space? No way.


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[–] Saudi-Prince 25 points 6 hours ago


And we could have it too, if we didn't have to devote our economy towards benefitting wealthy
foreigners. Damnit.
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[–] 0987654231 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

We have it, live anywhere other than Toronto and Vancouver.


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[–] minglow [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Toronto?
Lol
1 hour outside of Toronto you're looking at 500k minimum to be above garbage, which
exponentially increases if you want something remotely "new" (not really new).
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[–] 0987654231 [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I'm honestly speechless, is it that hard to imagine something outside the GTA? You
have an entire country.
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[–] Coqui-holla-holla [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I'm not trying to come off flippant here but; there are hundreds of small towns
with too many people and too little work out there. I come from B.C. so I know
that all too well. Industries that attracted people to these communities to raise a
family have all but dried up as we shift toward a service economy. Now you have
towns of 2500 with full time work enough for 1500, and part time jobs making up
the rest. Things aren't much better in the small towns. Things aren't much better
outside of the GFA and GVRD. Its just that the good paying jobs landed there so
obviously they'll become a magnet for people.
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[–] minglow [score hidden] 4 hours ago

First it was "Toronto", then it was"GTA", now its "Ontario".

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I already own a home, I'm just not delusional and acting like there isn't a problem
in Ontario. "Fuck you, got mine" isn't sustainable, you should try something else.
Your logical approach is that 20 somethings move out of their province for home
ownership. Lol
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[–] eeninety2 [score hidden] 3 hours ago


lol that made me laugh.. "fuck you, got mine".. pretty much the mentality for
most people
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[–] engineeredthoughts [score hidden] 3 hours ago*


GTA is where the money and jobs are at. People don't spend hours commuting
from out of town to work in downtown Toronto just for fun. They do it because
they don't have any other option.
Do you think someone living in Barrie would commute to Toronto every day if they
could get the same job in Barrie? Cmon...
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[–] Mistril [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Jobs are a big part of this, most Canadians these days have a bachelors or are
working in industries that only exist in cities. If businesses were willing to branch
out from these hubs sure but why would they?
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[–] Yvaelle [score hidden] 4 hours ago

The frontier is no place for a young family, who even knows what lies beyond the
metro limit?
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[–] Colonel_Saito [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Here be dragons
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[–] bigheyzeus [score hidden] 3 hours ago

left the GTA after 30 years, born and raised in Mississauga - best thing I ever did. I
know jobs are harder to come by, even in the rest of Southern Ontario by
comparison, but it's possible.
People often forget, even if you see smaller numbers on a job offer, a cheaper cost
of living from everything from insurance to commute time/gas can actually mean
more take home pay at the end of the month.
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[–] TheRealNokes [score hidden] 5 hours ago


Ugh, why can't millenials just be happy with the scraps we left for them? /s
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[–] CanCon89 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

You know, if they would just buckle down, work hard, and stop spending money on luxuries like
brunch and public transportation, then they could pull themselves up by their boot straps! /s
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[–] TheRealNokes [score hidden] 5 hours ago


Why are they having so many kids anyway? What like one kid? Back in my day, nobody had
any kids.
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[–] AxeMeAboutMyAsshole [score hidden] 4 hours ago

How can you possibly expect to make more than 19.50 an hour with a university degree?
Entitled brats.
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[–] SmileyKnox [score hidden] 4 hours ago*

They just want children for the baby bonus cheques anyway.
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[–] suprmario [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Don't let them in on the fact that we combined breakfast and lunch to save money.
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[–] awkward_elephant [score hidden] 4 hours ago*


Yep, my father came to this country with three cents in his pocket, walked uphill both ways to his
job putting caps on pens, saved hard for two years and bought a modest 2000 sq ft. house.
And me? I went to school, paying my tuition working a part time job. Got a job right after, worked
my way up, and now I'm senior manager overseeing how to outsource 90% of my company's jobs
to Bangalore.
Seriously, I've got all these new grads looking at me strange when I say the starting salary is $30K
-- that's already $10K more than I made when I started in 1970. Why can't these kids be grateful
for what they have? And I only interview people with master's degrees -- you'd think they'd be
smarter! They're all so dumb and entitled these days, good thing their contracts only last 8
months.
See, I was smart with my money. I've been saving up my money throughout my life, and I bought
my third rental property by 1995. You know what I didn't do? Waste money on rent, go into debt
to go through school, or waste time getting a master's degree. Oh, and eat avocado toast, that's
why you can't afford a home within 2.5 hours commute to the office.
/s
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[–] nekodazulic [score hidden] 3 hours ago

When you get that talk, just look at them with a curious face and say what they did sounds
very smart, and ask if they would be interested in helping you make a similar financial plan. If
they agree, bring them a computer as the first step would be finding a house that you can buy
in the city right now, which could be reasonably mortgaged with a $30k salary. The next step
would be asking them if they are currently hiring in their company and whether it's possible or
not to talk to an actual person right now who had been promoted to management level
sometime during the last 2 years so you can have a good idea of what to expect and how to
prepare yourself.
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Or you know, don't bother with any of that and just remove the person from your life and carry
on, depending on what works I guess.
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[–] mcintac [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Clearly another example of their over entitlement /s


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[–] unknownsoul22 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Housing is over 10 times more expensive than it was a generation ago AFTER factoring in inflation but
yeah we are entitled...
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[–] KF7SPECIAL 61 points 6 hours ago

Damn, what kind of moneybags are raising families at all, let alone in houses?
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[–] ArbainHes a [score hidden] 5 hours ago

House? You were lucky to have a house! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six
of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear
of falling!
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[–] CanCon89 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I imagine that the half of the floor that was still there went uphill both ways?
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[–] PoliteIndecency [score hidden] 5 hours ago

A room!? Why I would have killed for a simple room! When I was a lad me and my forty-five
siblings lived in a hole by the motorway with a bucket for a privy! And we were lucky to have
that bucket! And room with a wall, well aren't you the entitled one!
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[–] N0MAD1804 [score hidden] 4 hours ago

You entitled little shit. You had a WHOLE bucket! My seventy-eight and a half siblings had
to fight for warmth and cover under a single cheeseburger wrapper! We don't even have
that wrapper anymore, it disintegrated in the rain years ago!
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[–] Snoringdragon [score hidden] 4 hours ago

That got me. I'm imagining condos built out of the old Styrofoam burger conatiners
from McD's now. With coffee spoon railings.
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[–] carolinax [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Jeez this image 🤣


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[–] anarrogantworm [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Sounds like luxury.


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[–] Voltrondemort [score hidden] 3 hours ago

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You were lucky to have a ROOM! We used to have to live in a corridor!


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[–] Snoringdragon [score hidden] 4 hours ago


You had half a floor? With a ROOF? Well, aren't you special? ;) Bet you even had a DOOR with
an actual HINGE, too...
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[–] RickyTomatoes [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Developers: "We need more unrestricted zoning!"


Realtors: "We need more supply!"
Urban planners: "We need more density!"
Politicians: "We need more mixed-use housing!"
Millenials: "We need more affordable housing!"
Everyone else: "We need to move away."
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[–] reddit_propaganda_BS [score hidden] 2 hours ago

Foreign investors: "Pocketlint only?, are you SURE you want to sell your ancestors' home to me
only at FMV?! Well ok, Thanks!"
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[–] ApolloRising12 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

Is anyone surprised? I think most people, even without kids would prefer a house. There’s likely a
minority of people that do prefer a condo (no yard work, shoveling, etc). Condos are miserable for a
lot of people. There is always a Neighbour that blares music excessively loud or fights with their
significant other ever day. But a house isn’t a financial option for most people.
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[–] evonebo [score hidden] 5 hours ago

unless you can get a detached house, you're going to have similar problems (although not as
much) with a row house, semi, townhouse.

I personally prefer a condo like you mentioned, i don't have to do anything. The problem is there
aren't big enough condos and some maintenance fee is crazy.

The backyard i don't care about, 5-10 mins walk there is a park.
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[–] ApolloRising12 [score hidden] 4 hours ago

The noise thing is something I’ve never been able to figure out. But it seems like such a
universal issue. People just don’t seem to care if they are disturbing everyone around them. If
you want to listen to loud music, wear headphones. That’s what I do so I don’t bother anyone.
Maybe I’m getting old. I don’t know.
If you have time, the park is definitely a better option. In those moments when you are too
busy cleaning or cooking to take your kids, having an option to play close by would seem to be
very desirable. For older kids, it’s probably not a necessary, as they can go by themselves. I
suspect that’s the big motivation.
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[–] RickyTomatoes [score hidden] 3 hours ago

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People just don’t seem to care if they are disturbing everyone around them.
Having experienced similar issues in my previous condo, I will say that the people who
typically do this are naturally selfish, and/or oblivious to their surroundings. Teenagers and
young adults fit that stereotype well.
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[–] Tumdace [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Less chance for that in a townhouse, as usually nobody lives above or below you (unless
basement is rented out), and the entrances aren't shared usually.
I moved from an apartment to a townhouse, and while the apartment was pretty sound proof,
open a window and you can hear anyone plain as day, or you could hear people in the hall
pretty easily.
I haven't heard a single noise from another unit at my townhome.
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[–] undapanda 72 points 6 hours ago

In the second largest country in the world is it too much to ask for a backyard?
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[–] past_is_prologue [score hidden] 5 hours ago


Houses are pretty cheap in fucking Geraldton. The size of the country doesn't mean much.
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[–] desktopdesktop [score hidden] 5 hours ago

It depends, are you planning to live in a multi-million-person city?


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[–] jeeb00 55 points 6 hours ago

The size of the country is meaningless in this conversation when humans congregate in large cities
and 90% of our population is along the U.S. border. If you want to move to Iqaluit though and
build a house for yourself, be my guest!
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[–] 3irhead [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I think this is honestly a very interesting political question.


I grew up in this little rural town called Vegreville. The biggest employer there was probably
the federal government - we had an Immigration Centre there. The other thing with Vegreville
is that it's historically has a strong conservative voting base.
So when the liberals got into power, they have since made plans to move the Immigration
Centre to downtown Edmonton.
Now the thing is, publicly they say they're trying to make things run more "efficiently" and
"save money." But the studies and reports have confirmed that not only is the move costing
them several millions, but the increased expenses for all the extra office space in Edmonton, is
going to be costing them millions more yearly than what it used to cost running the centre out
of Vegreville.
The whole entire move was pointless and is costing tax payers millions. The ONLY REASON
they did it at all, was because of political motivations. Fracture a town that was a conservative
stronghold.
Property values tanked, people are moving away from Vegreville in droves, and for what
reason? Because they didn't vote Liberal? Fucking ridiculous.
In my opinion, our provincial and federal governments should be trying to encourage growth in
our smaller towns, and they should be discouraging growth in major city centres. Personally I
think there's a sweet spot when places become small cities that can support themselves and
have all the amenities, without growing so big that they take on a whole bunch of problems
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like road congestion, and overflowing schools. I would peg that at populations between
20,000-150,000. It might be kind of relative and my own personal experience is biasing my
opinions here. But I do think with a country such as ours, we really needn't be cramping
ourselves in these big cities. Personally I still choose to live in a small city with a population
around 30,000. I don't deal with traffic issues or crime, my neighbors are extremely friendly
and approachable, it's what living in a community is supposed to be like IMO. Not living in a
condo in a city, where I lock my door and put in my headphones block out all the noise from
traffic and sirens.
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[–] AxelNotRose [score hidden] 3 hours ago

In my opinion, our provincial and federal governments should be trying to encourage


growth in our smaller towns, and they should be discouraging growth in major city
centres.

I'm not a conservative and I approve this message. :)


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[–] tacochops [score hidden] 1 hour ago

In my opinion, our provincial and federal governments should be trying to encourage


growth in our smaller towns, and they should be discouraging growth in major city
centres
100% agree. It reminds me of those news stories where refugees are being hosted in
hotels in Toronto and it's baffling. Why pay to host these people in one of the most
expensive cities in the country? The only reasonable argument I've heard was that the
courts and immigration lawyers are all holed up in Toronto so it's convenient to have them
nearby. If that's the case then we should move them into a handful of small towns and let
the lawyers commute from Toronto. If the lawyers want to be close to their clients they can
setup shop in those smaller towns.
IMO we need ways to spread our population over more of the surface area of Canada. To
do that we need more businesses in smaller towns and we also need to dissuade
immigrates from staying in large cities and instead let them help build smaller towns. I
don't know how that can be accomplished but the way it's working now more and more
corporations seem to think big cities like Toronto are the only place to have their
businesses, which just further drives insane demand for these locations.
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[–] jacnel45 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I think the biggest reason why Canadians congregate near the border is two fold:
1. Poor transportation options. We have no cross country controlled access highways like
most countries. No reliable cross country passenger rail and expensive air travel.
2. Bad weather. Only small parts of this country are hospitable for most of the year. Sure
people can live in the north but there are few avenues for affordable agriculture, making
the entire idea pointless.
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[–] kab0b87 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

cross country controlled access highway


uhhhh https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/TransCanadaHWY.png
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[–] Pixeldensity [score hidden] 5 hours ago

you're missing the controlled access part (ex: 401). Lots of the TCH is still 2-lane road.
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[–] kab0b87 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I've Driven ~75 percent of the Trans canada, Lots of those places do not have near
the amount of traffic to require Full controlled access. (see basically all of
saskatchewan, outside of Saskatoon and Regina)

We have a highway system that reaches Coast to Coast East and west, and an
ancillary highway system that reaches 1500+ kms north of the Canada/US Border

The Location of the transcanada may play a part of where people live, but a lack of
Controlled access highways don't simply because there wouldn't be enough traffic
to justify it.
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[–] zyl0x [score hidden] 5 hours ago

And it's not like they plow and salt the whole thing in the winter either.
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[–] Voltrondemort [score hidden] 3 hours ago

It's still completely irrelevant to the problem. There are vast vast swaths of 4-lane
401 an hour outside of the GTA, with nothing around them.
Our problem is not caused by a lack of a cross-country expressway. At all.
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[–] Oopsie_daisy [score hidden] 5 hours ago

Most of the Trans Canada Highway isn’t controlled-access. And if part of the highway is
shut down for any reason, especially in rural areas, there’s usually no practical detour
(the Nipigon and Latchford bridges are two incidents I remember in my lifetime).
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[–] LucTroth [score hidden] 5 hours ago

My favoruite part is the obvious ferries required for all the islands off the west coast.
Victoria is the capital of BC and you're still paying $150 minimum to get on and off
Vancouver Island, local or not (there's no discount for residents).
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[–] kchoze [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I think the reasons are rather that cities are formed by people following the money rather
than the other way around. So cities grew from locations favorable to trade, where a lot of
money and goods flowed through, which meant they had to be located on major trade
routes and in regions where there were a lot of villages and towns producing goods for
trade.
Once cities are formed and you have big businesses and governments setting up residence
in them, you start a cycle of wealth accumulation in cities, leading to more people moving
in, leading to more wealth being accumulated there, attracting even more people, etc...
Governments tax people of the entire country, and though they redistribute most of that
money regionally as well, they also spend that money in institutions and offices that tend
to be concentrated in major cities, enriching them a lot. Big businesses do the same thing,
they take their profit overhead costs from all over the country and bring it to their
corporate offices and HQs mainly located in major cities. This means a lot of money being
taken from the entire country and being brought into major urban areas, and people end

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up following the money there, because it's easier to get money when there's a lot of it
moving around than when there's only a little of it.
If you wanted to avoid having populations concentrated in cities, you'd need to fight big
corporations, favoring small, local businesses, and to decentralize the government so that
government workers and publicly funded institutions are spread more evenly rather than
concentrated in one or two cities.
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[–] ClubSoda [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Live in a small town they said. You can afford a big house there they said. They neglected to say there
won’t be any family doctors.
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[–] Laimis666 [score hidden] 2 hours ago

In the last year I worked in about 15 biggest condos being built around Toronto and in Toronto. And I
have to say the price/quality/size is just disapointing. If you have an old condo(aka bigger), keep it,
renovate it, the new ones are terrible.
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[–] Farren246 [score hidden] 4 hours ago

Only 5% prefer condos.


Of course people prefer houses. I'd prefer a $50M mansion. But I can't afford it. Now I do own a
house, but I own it because I want to start a family and because I can afford it. But in Toronto, where
housing is unaffordable to all but the super-rich, if I wanted to start a family I would probably upgrade
from an apartment to an affordable condo.
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[–] SeriousSteve23 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

affordable Toronto condo


Pick one
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[–] jetplanze [score hidden] 5 hours ago


It's normal to raise families in places in Asia and Europe but it's definitely not part of the mainstream
culture here. As others have mentioned, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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[–] armadillo_armpit 6 points 6 hours ago


Not interested but ultimately (if they live in Toronto or Van or soon MTL) will be forced too.
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[–] Flarisu [score hidden] 4 hours ago

People aren't raising families now - period. Marriage is way down, childbearing is way down, but condo
development is up, so more people live in condos out of necessity.

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I don't think those two correlate. There is more condo ownership and less family raising, but they're
each victims to different generational forces.
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[–] Sheer_Purple [score hidden] 3 hours ago

Who woulda thunk that glorified expensive apartments are not the long term lifestyle people want?
See yah in my back yard smoking weed and grilling burgers.
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[–] Squadz [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I guess I'm the outlier. I prefer condos to homes, 100%.


Also, as someone who's close to having kids, my only negative for condos is the fact that I'd have a
screaming baby in the beginning waking my neighbours up (wish they cared as much as I do about
noise).
Other than that, I have no issues with condo living.
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[–] Gossipmang [score hidden] 5 hours ago


I prefer condo living too. Although I do want to upgrade from 760 sq ft to at least 1000 when I
have a child.
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[–] yhsong1116 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I agree with the study.


Doesn't seem like I have much of a choice though.
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[–] whywouldyouthat [score hidden] 5 hours ago

Yard work, renovations and home maintenance are the most popular hobbies in the country.
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[–] SorosShill4421 [score hidden] 4 hours ago


I have a detached house and love it, but I wouldn't be devastated if I had to raise my kid in an
apartment. I wouldn't want to do it in one of those 30-storey McTowers, but in a low-rise with decent
amount of public space, why not?
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[–] NorseGod [score hidden] 4 hours ago

That's funny, the only way we're going to be able to buy a house is by forgoing children.
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[–] Serpic0 [score hidden] 3 hours ago


My brother lives in a condo. His one-and-a-half year old daughter so much as walks around or drops a
Lego and the shitty neighbours below him report it to the strata council. That’s why you don’t raise a
family in a condo.
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[–] YawnY86 [score hidden] 1 hour ago

I live in a condo. I wouldn't want to be raised here, it's like a seniors home and most of the seniors
aren't friendly. They treat the whole building like it's theirs. I can't even leave a bike on my balcony
without someone calling the board and complaining.
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[–] JDeeezie [score hidden] 2 hours ago

Who the frig wants to raise a family in a condo? A condo is for like 2 people
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[–] dhc8driver [score hidden] 4 hours ago


Wow, is this a surprise to anyone?
Everyone says "SFH need to go" but yet everyone wants one. Myself included.
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[–] Bu hole_Alamo [score hidden] 3 hours ago


God. The experience of going over to my buddies’ divorced dad’s condos in elementary school was
steeped in sadness. Watching Nick at Nite while eating delivery pizza and drinking a glass of milk in
those dim cavernous living rooms...
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[–] carolinax [score hidden] 3 hours ago

This is why I've chosen to raise my family outside of Canada :(


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[–] Calvinshobb [score hidden] 1 hour ago


We tried it, it was very hard with two adults and a baby. once we got the second baby it was near
impossible for us. Things as simple as toys, and where to put the double stroller and the highchairs,
pottyseat etc. Our city does not have an Ikea or any options to equip a "tiny home" with fold down
tables, collapsible everything, loft beds etc., those things would of made life easier, but still very
difficult.
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[–] shamisen-says-meow [score hidden] 1 hour ago

We 👏can't 👏afford it 👏
How many times are people going to publish these articles until they get it?
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[–] meglomania [score hidden] 1 hour ago


I grew up in a condo and have fond memories of living in a condo. I would like to say the way Condos
are designed in Canada was nothing like the condo I grew up in. The common space is uninviting, the
corridors are bland, huge thick wooden doors are shut, noise isolation is to be desired. The lobby is too
small and play spaces are smaller, there's no place for kids to run around and play indoors (when the
weather gets bad). Hosting guests over is cumbersome, organizing an event with neighbors involves
dealing with Strata/HoA. Condos here are designed to be utilitarian like a hotel rather than building
with a community living in it. I can see why there's such deep disinterest.
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[–] LOOK_AT_MY_ALL_CAPS [score hidden] 4 hours ago


And people laugh at me for wanting to live in Saskatchewan. We got space...we have lower costs of
living. We have a pretty ok tech industry right now, and the province only at 1,000,000~ people. I'll be
able to live quite comfortably. Our housing is also fairly cheap comparably with the rest of the nation
Also cheaper internet and cellphone plans. My buddy works as a general labourer, bought he first
house 5 years ago for $230,000.

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[–] Coqui-holla-holla [score hidden] 4 hours ago

This is a reasonable comment I hope more people pay attention to.. but I do have a question. If
suddenly you had a surge of 250,000 people move to your city (I'm assuming Saskatoon?) would
the city be able to handle that in the way of employment and housing? Is there availability of
both?
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[–] skitchawin [score hidden] 4 hours ago

I doubt it's Saskatoon, Regina, or even smaller communities like Weyburn or Estevan at
$230,000. Housing prices in the cities are pretty inflated, I recall having friends from Regina
visit in Quebec and they figured we must have paid about $400K for our house (we had paid
$150K) based on the pricing there.
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[–] fredy31 [score hidden] 5 hours ago

I just bought a house. I'm 27.


And really, Condos do not have much advantage anymore.
1- They just build and build and build them. Making a used condo SUPER hard to resell later.
2- You are basically stuck in an apartment. No backyard to play in or relax in. You have your little deck
for your unit, but cant really host the family for an outside BBQ.
3- Now they are pretty much as costly as a small house. And over that you need to put about 300$ a
month of Condo Fees.
So yeah, the discussion about going for a condo or a house didn't last long. We bought a 200k house,
and most condos we saw were pretty much the same price before the monthly fees.
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[–] Tumdace [score hidden] 4 hours ago


Must be nice to pay 200k for a house.
Unless I want a rundown piece of crap that I have to put 100k into just to make it liveable, or I
want to have a 1.5 hour commute, I'm looking at $350k at the very least (KW).
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[–] fredy31 [score hidden] 4 hours ago*


I'm 25 minutes out of Montreal by bus, maybe 15 in car. (Takes me about an hour to get to
work. May be a little long for a lot of people, but I enjoy listening to podcasts.)
We had a lucky break yes. But the condos we've seen were maybe 190k, but with a 300$ per
month for Condo fees. So you save about 50$ a month on mortgage, but need to pay a 300$
that you don't pay with a house. (But a house has other fees that add on top of the mortgage,
but not 300$ a month worth.)
Our house is small too. Should be good if we have 1 kid, 2 might be a little squeezed. But it's
in front of a park!
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[–] Zym [score hidden] 3 hours ago


Maybe I should move to Montreal. If I want a house for under $500,000 in the Vancouver
area I would have to drive over an hour and a half to work and back again every day.
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[–] fredy31 [score hidden] 3 hours ago

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You would have to do it soon. I heard that the wave of chinese buyers that make the
costs baloon up in Vancouver and Toronto is coming to Montreal sooner than later.
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[–] blondetailedsquirrel [score hidden] 4 hours ago


Exactly! Plus as the condo ages the fees climb, making it harder to sell. Who wants to pay a
mortgage, pay $1000 in condo fees and have to deal with a condo board? No thanks.
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[–] fredy31 [score hidden] 4 hours ago

We had stories like this:


Condo board is mostly composed of old, retired people; decide the meetings are wednesday at
10AM. Guy is working 40h week, so he cannot show up every week at this meeting. Comes
back home one night with a sheet on his door 'No cats allowed from now on. And the cats
already owned are not grandfathered in.' Had to give away his 2 cats.
Really, a Condo board was the biggest dread I had if we bought a condo. Yes, you might get
one that goes well and everything is fine. But you only need one that thinks this board is Game
of Thrones to make it shit for everybody. And you don't know that before you buy your condo.
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[–] SeriousSteve23 [score hidden] 3 hours ago


Before you buy condos, there are steps you can take to make sure you get a good board.
Lawyers can look into the finances of the board, the reserve fund, the rules they've put in
place, history of implementation, etc. It's not be-all-end-all, but more often than not it's
obvious fairly quickly if a board is garbage versus an amazing one. The last thing you want
to do it get hit with a random lien due to incompetence.
For example, in my family's condo tower in Mississauga (new unit), the fees were low the
first year because it was handled by the builder. People bought in droves because of that.
After that, they dumped it all on a makeshift group of condo board members that had no
experienced and it all went to shit. Fees are over 500/mo now.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, my parents own another condo in a little tower in
Ottawa that was built in the 80s and that condo board is basically drowning in money. The
reserve funds is several millions big. Because of that they throw tons of special events, the
green spaces are amazing, amenities are modern and up to date, each unit got brand new
plumbing, balconies and insulted patio doors, they can invest in modern heating/cooling
systems to the per-month price is less and they save more money in the long term, lobby
gets updated every couple years, they have free garbage collection for large items, etc etc.
An experienced real estate lawyer and preferably a realtor knowledgeable in condos should
be able to tell you whether or not it's a good buy. Tons of shady people in that business
that want to make a quick commission, but if they're on your side you can avoid the bad
ones, and end up with a condo board that really works for you and makes living in one
advantageous.
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[–] PeterNygardisaLizard [score hidden] 3 hours ago

My condo president doesn't use the internet and doesn't have a cellphone and wants to do
the budget by hand with a pen and paper.
At a previous condo we had to basically beg the board to allow us to install an air
conditioner and upgrade our furnace to high efficiency - they thought the intake/output
pipes were an eyesore.
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[–] NepalesePasta [score hidden] 3 hours ago
Duh. Condos are the most boring and terrible form of housing. Like everything bad about suburbs and
everything bad about apartments combined.
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[–] petalsandpinecones [score hidden] 3 hours ago

I don't want to live in a condo, children or not.


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[–] SuperficialJerk [score hidden] 5 hours ago

Oh yea, bring on 350,000 more immigrants every year and "younger Canadians" will not have a choice
where they will raise their kids.
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[–] methshin [score hidden] 4 hours ago


I'm in the minority, I really don't want to look after an entire house, in addition to what I already have
on my plate. I love my condo, and it's more than large enough to raise a family in it. Not having a
private backyard is a bit sad, but there are plenty of parks very close by.
Maybe when I get older and have more time on my hands, I'd look for something out in the country,
but as it stands, I need to be in the city, and my professional life limits my free time.
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[–] TiBlode [score hidden] 4 hours ago


Duh. A condo is just a big apartment.
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[–] Quardah [score hidden] 4 hours ago

YOU

DONT

SAY
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[–] Deep-seated-hustler [score hidden] 3 hours ago

The culture here is to build condos cheaply but charge a lot for them still. I definitely will move out of
the big city if I have a family one day.
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[–] Morguard [score hidden] 3 hours ago

This is why I moved to London. Got a 15 year old detached for 350.
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[–] Ligh hrower1 [score hidden] 3 hours ago


No shit, duh. What is this article?
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[–] Dimsumdumdum [score hidden] 3 hours ago

I would raise my family in a condo, affordable three bedroom, with basement storage, and common
areas like a playroom. With excellent soundproofing so I don’t have to worry about kids bothering
anyone, and in a complexe of buildings surrounding a park and splash pad. Ideally with a daycare and
elementary school within walking distance.
But this doesn’t exist, it could very easily, but it doesn’t. So I live in the burbs, and I’m happy.
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[–] Yewbert [score hidden] 3 hours ago*


Because it's objectively terrible, you've gotta do what you gotta do but let's not pretend condo living
isn't awful for raising families. Your neighbors will hate you (a friend is being asked to stop the kids
running around and playing after 5pm or face a fine, and have nasty notes left on their door almost
daily for example) and you'll share the limited outdoor space with dozens of others and their pets.
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[–] studabakerhawk [score hidden] 3 hours ago


I once toured an open house of a one bedroom condo in downtown Toronto. It was going for about
$500,000 twelve years ago. It was clearly occupied by a single parent and a kid. The kids play area
was a shelf lined with funko pops that was also the dining area. Outside was a park filled with
homeless and mental patients. Looking at how much money that person must have been making and
how they were living was a big influence on convincing me to leave.
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[–] kellerrrrr [score hidden] 2 hours ago

I sure hope not. I constantly hear little kids running and screaming in the hallways of my condo
building. I get you can't afford a bigger place with a yard, but you shouldn't let your kids disturb 100s
of people because of it.
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[–] SmoothTriminal [score hidden] 2 hours ago

In other news, people prefer having more over having less.


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[–] klf0 [score hidden] 2 hours ago


What Canadian home buyers and developers seem to fail to understand is that there is something
between a detached home and a single storey apartment condo. It's called a townhouse, and they
come in many configurations. Generally, you lose the large yard (not necessarily entirely), but we all
gain in denser cities with better services.
If I knew anything about development and had a lot of money, I'd get involved in developing
European-inspired townhouse developments in Canada. And they wouldn't suck.
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[–] flu ersnip3 [score hidden] 1 hour ago

TIL Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver are the only cities in Canada.
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[–] ask_if_im_a_rapper8 [score hidden] 49 minutes ago


Really though. Young people with no marketable skills are complaining because they can't make it
with their $15/hr job, but refuse to move out of the overcrowded cities because they want their
rooftop patios and tapas. There are plenty of affordable places in Canada to raise a family.
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[–] themastersb [score hidden] 1 hour ago

Yeah. Homes are locked out to younger Canadians due to foreign home buyers and then the
government wonders why Canadians aren't having kids so they import people to keep our work force
up.
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[–] eminemondrugs [score hidden] 1 hour ago


i moved out at 16, went from a god awful basement suite to two greasy apartments to a pretty nice
one, and now i’m in a townhouse. i couldn’t fathom having a child, let alone a child and a partner,

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share that small of a space. moving to a “house” has been a phenomenal change. i have a yard for my
dog, a private place for friends to stay, room to rotate my summer/winter closet, store seasonal
decorations + extra boxes for gift giving. sacrificing those things was fine when i was 16, but it’s not
practical for a family.
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[–] BigWiggly1 [score hidden] 1 hour ago


Also breaking:
Sometimes water falls from the sky. Depending on time of year, it appears to fall as solid flakes.
Investigations are ongoing to determine the cause of this phenomenon and whether or not it is
harmful to humans.
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[–] rsenkiw [score hidden] 1 hour ago


As if this “news”?! Does anyone think that people want to raise a family in a condo and not that it’s
unaffordable to live elsewhere? Come on.
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