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Is it fair to say that code writers life is solitary

Well no wouldnt say that was fair because in the

current era the efforts of one code writer are not usually

interesting Its gotten to the point where you need bigger

groups of people working together and so the solitary

sculptor in his--in his studio thats one man thing and you

dont really have that sense in code writing anymore as much

as it used to be So mean there is sense when youre--

when youre exactly what youre going to accomplish

that you can sort of go off into and it but

your cave do you

need to come out of your cave fairly frequently to stay

connected to the other people working on the same project

Describe the community of code writers versus the community that

you have here

tJh hum extemporaneous philosophizing Lets see whats

interesting about--well one of the things thats interesting

about fl code writing communities is that theyre very

diverse And that--thats--well not as diverse as they

could be In the completely politically correct way then

they should be you know better mix of sexes and better mix

of genders but there are--theres lot of different kind

of people Not everybody is--the--the view of you know

software prograrnrters as robot nerds or all Star Trek fans

or whatever is not S--not accurate and so in some ways

find the community at--at work more diverse than the

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community at church mean in some sense thats--thats

4ct because of the nature of the church community because each

church self-selects for certain kinds of people and so

those are people who have sort of chosen to--to be of

part

that community Whereas maybe at work theres

different--different selection process where you know

different more different array of personalities show up

So the original question was why would someone choose to be

part of one or the other if theyre not really mutually

exclusive of course

Talk about your faith and commitment to non professional

community

ell it actually came as sort of surprise to me because um

kind of--I mean there was not strong language about

religion one way or the other when was growing up In fact

my parents actually took me to church because they thought it

would be think good for me But you know basically

thought it was all sort of nonsense And it kind of--kind of

against my better judgement came to discover that--that God

was real in the things that he said were real and if that was

true then it demanded response from me mean we all

have our stupid things and is dont

my stupid thing that

L/kL4LflS
want to look stupid and so if take
you seriously/God says in

the Bible you have to change your life and one of the

things that is really clear is that you cant grow in

faith and grow in learning to express Gods character to

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73 people and express Gods compassion and mercy to people all

by yourself--that you need to do that in community of

believers And
so was really hard for me at first because

didnt grow up in the church The church culture is you

know its got 2000 years of history behind it and it takes

awhile to figure out how to fit in And you know you go

through phases went to one church that was you know the

people wore suits on Sundays and now Im going to church

where if somebody wore suit we would be pretty sure that

they were And play bass here which also fairly

spy is

informal but its in very you know traditional setting

and so you know eventually you kind of learn that there are

different communities of faith united around the same idea

that allows you not concentrate

to on--on your differences

but instead to concentrate on what it is that Gods doing

with you And so you got to seek those places that--that

free you up to do that And so thats a--thats tough

quest Did that answer the question

Yes Was there moment when God spoke to you

Well did have one moment where God spoke to me that--that

remember really clearly urn but it was not the epiphany that

made me decide to be Christian That was just uh the

people that was hanging out with in college it turned out

that several of them were Christians and sort of went along

with their spiritual stuff just because and hit

suddenly it

me like whoa this is true So in the moment where felt

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God spoke to me was like years and years later Thats

cool thing too though Kind of personal dont know if

can say it on the video

Is this the most important in besides your

thing your life family

Well its hard to say Theres a--I mean if youve been in

Christian church for awhile you know what your priorities

are supposed to be Its like posted on the wall number

one your relationship with God what he has--is having you

do and your responsibility before Number two--

your relationship with your wife and family you know

Number three--your activities in the community of believers

and then number four would be what you do to eat didnt--

and so you want to you know always make sure those

priorities are in line

And so it would be the correct thing to say oh yes

definitely the church is the But though you

dont really know what those priorities are until youre in

fire
and theyre really tested and right now Im in

one of the easiest times life

robably o4Jmy
so can--I can

line it up any way want and its not hard So dont know

what my real priorities are mean would--I would like to

jwer time have the most important thing be my relationship

with God and how God is trying to touch the world through his

relationship with me thats really hard and lot of

times Im running away from the difficulty of that rather

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than to okay
facing up you know what needs to change in me

to make that happen more cause change is painful and all

change is bad

/CC
Have you been tested

Well one of the hardest Lynn and

things Sight after got

married uh our first pregnancy ended months into the

pregnancy The child just died and uh and then the what you

have to go through when it happens you have to actually

deliver the baby Its not just like it goes away Arid so

you go to the hospital you deliver baby only its not

live baby and then back

you go having gone through all the

pain of birth and back home without and then

you go baby

youre left with questions that philosophers have dealt with

over the years that you thought you had sort of answered

like if God cares about the world why does he let there be

sufferingJ And even if he lets there be suffering in the

rest of the world if he cares about me why did he let me

suffer And uh that was a--it was real difficult time

mean every--there have been people who have been through

lot more testing circumstances than that but for us it was

really hard Plus it was really early in our marriage and so

you know theres period of bonding together in your early

years of marriage and that that

really interrupted process

for us and its taken us long time to kind of recover even

from that

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remember a--a there was an epiphany for rue so Im feeling

qLj
angry and upset and separated and just decided to go out

and take walk and so went out to local school and

yard

Im walking just around the play ground of the school yard

Around and around and around and Im basically just yelling

at God going Okay God you know what is going on I--I-

Im chucking it Im out of here you know You--you didnt-

-you didnt hold up your part of the bargain You were

supposed to keep me safe and you didnt keep me safe and

just had tremendous sense that the--the sadness that felt

about my son would only--I mean that there would be day

in heaven that that sadness would be And

gone just--there

was certainty in me that there was heaven and that God

was there in heaven and that my son was there in heaven and

that my son was there or would be there

mean theres big theological debate about what order

things happen but that--and that on that day would be

completely satisfied with the answers and that just felt

yearning for that day Just huge Its like oh man do

ever want to be there now And do understand that--that

longing for that day when--when all the delayed justice you

know including my little thing all happens And--and then

realized cant chuck this because--because want to see

that day come and have lot of questions that dont

know the answers to and know
4--and so then you went

okay well now Ive come to my peace with God

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And then when my daughter was diagnosed with diabetes it was

like all over again oh didnt believe that

really was

saying believed it but didnt really believe it because

here am again angry at God So know so

you you

1330 know there are some people who believe that God is looking at

people and going he really needs test right now what

horrible thing can send to him to test him and refine him

and give him chance to increase his character dont

really believe in God that--its little bit arrogant to

decide what God believe in God is whoever he is and

have to respond to that but that Ive

my understanding come

to of God is that urn the way it works is that because he

allowed there to be free will there is pain and misery in the

world but he is able to turn and misery to good if will

we

let him he didnt select the misery for me but he isnt

neglecting me even when bad things happen and he is there to

do things with me even--even then And so know

you through

those things there are uh lot of--of you know growth

through trial through both of things that a--and--and the

marriage thing has been real difficult too

We were very close to divorce times and its

many

thing where you intellectually say have committed to this

intellectually and will not look stupid and one of the

said
things was will not divorce my wife You know and

then went well need divorce

to my wife now How do

rationalize this so that its okay Because said

wouldnt do that you just feel trapped You know if I--if

get divorced cant feel like have any integrity about

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21 myself but if stay married Im dying inside All right and

going through feeling like that every day thats another

really really tough thing that--that has you know given me

more strength Im not having that problem now

just wanted to clear that up We are long way down that

road okay

Talk about your view of the nature of spirituality in the

technology field

Well there is sense in the scientific community that

the most important thing is to understand the entirety of the

world without the need for there to be any external

influence And all the places where it would be

uncomfortable for there to be an external influence then they

really dont want to talk about that think that

theres place for very intelligent rational discussion

of who we are as thinking beings and quantum physics and

whats for breakfast tomorrow and all those that--that

things

involves an invisible creator who is--actively involved in

trying to communicate with us and hes anxious to reveal

himself to--to anyone who will work and hes also really

involved in doing that so Im--Im--its kind of like Gods

business cant convert to--to--to believe in
anything

God Thats something that only God can do and so the fact

that the Silicon Valley is Godless--it doesnt bother me

that much

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It is--I mean it is little strange at work sometimes

because theres cultural thing against people who both

believe in Christian God and really believe that the Bible

is basically true because uh there are branches of the church

who those are their two main tenets and who have done foolish

things in the last 50 years that--that have sort of come into

the culture as theyre now stereotype and so if look

you

like that stereotype its uncomfortable And whats really

hard to do is to say well Im stupid too know There
you

are stupid Christians and there are stupid nonChristians

and Im going to identify with the people who really believe

the Bible and if youre going to stereotype me and Im going

to have to live with that because its more important for me

to be--to have integrity about that then to look smart

and feel like theres fundamental difference between

well okay wouldnt be Christian didnt

if believe

this--theres fundamental difference between faith in Jesus

Christ and God and faith in--in something beyond

ourselves one think that the faith in something beyond

ourselves is seed that but

can grow wish--I wish
-i wish the road to heaven were wide and that lots of people

could--could go in but thats not the way its setup and

thats one of the many questions that S--that will be

answered in the last days is how--how--how that means--how is

that just Right And --i mean theres--I wont mention

her name know some people who believe that if youre
basically good you know God will take care of you and God

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says it doesnt matter if youre good or bad what

2O5asicallY
matters is what your relationship is with me because Im
allowing you to choose who youre going to spend eternity

with and Im going to respect your choice and so if you

rejected me but were really nice to all the in the

people

world well then Im going to respect your choice and that is

really clear in the Bible There are some things in the

Bible where youre going well its not really clear what

the interpretation of this but this is of the

one

things Just--its just like dead clear that thats the

central issue

Now if youre serious about your relationship to God hes

going to talk to you about other

your relationship to people
right that--that follows but thats not the central issue

and so Im saying theres difference between faith in

something beyond ourselves or--or wishing to experience

spiritual things for me and the culmination of those desires

which is an actual relationship with God And lots of people

are spiritual

Is Silicon Valley Godless place

Yeah mean there are couple of senses in which it--in

which it--its Godless think that were surrounded by

some really excellent universities and theres
again some

sense in which the that

way you scientifically examine

things If you say number one assume there is no God

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right and that everything is mechanical how do explain

this Thats the sort of the underlying assumption for how

you examine things scientifically And so cant have

you

number one assumption like that in how you process

information not work its way into everything and it really

has and Im not saying that crackles the things that

weve discovered by scientific investigation even that thats

bad think that were discovering the wonder of the things

that--that God has made and its really--I mean its and
good

it has potential mean think technology is

potential to really do good things for many people but uh at

the same time theres this underlying assumption that there

is not God that has worked its way think in

especially

universities and so in an area thats sort of permeated by--

by that that works its way into the culture too And so in

that way it feels kind of Godless around here and then

you know really shouldnt comment on this since Im just

as foolish as everyone else but Ill just go ahead and do it

while admitting that Im foolish isfheres just tremendous

quest for material wealth here to--to strike it

rich Its--

you know I--I said this before Et like the Gold Rush all

over
aainand thats --if you were in church and you

had been through--been church enough to understand what

they were what would

saying they say about that is that its
idolatry and idolatry is just exalting something other than

God and giving it the place of God in your life and theres

an idolatry that money is going to take care of you

tv2ciust
bring you peace things like that so you know you have like

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two--two fundamental sentences One there is no real God

Two money will--will make it better Right and so those

things are what contribute to an atmosphere that ends up

feeling fairly--fairly Godless

How do the advantages youve enjoyed by your association with

Netscape affect you and your beliefs

Yeah well have pages of notes about this very

phenomenon because didnt get immediately happy after

became rich and even though have an immense amount of time

Im still fighting with my wife about how spend my time and

you know you lie to yourself and you say that you know Im

.@
too busy at work to deal with these issues If didnt
only

have this work then you know these--these things wouldnt be

problem And then you find out that no theres really

something wrong in who you are and selfishness and the

your

way that interacts with--with people And

other for me
mean feel like God has allowed me be
graciously to stupid

and to experience okay you know that--Ive taken that

problem away and youre still having trouble with that

arent you And yup yup yup yup okay Im starting to get

it slowly that you know theres a--a--deeper--a deeper type

of understanding with how relate with people

to and with him

that he--hes trying to get me to reach One of my things is

that anytime get upset need to do make

something to the--

the hurt feeling andI would

go away eat--would be one thing

that would do or wouJ buy things Those would be the

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two things And you know you can walk around my house and

like theres home theater system because one day when was

too close to stereo store was feeling depressed and it

didnt make me feel any less depressed and every time do

this I--I you know about three weeks later uhhh

just go
what is going on Ive got dont know seven different

basses because thought each bass was going to make me

happier person And 0--it starts--it starts to make you

feel Ive
just little sick to just go oh got all this

stuff and here am doing it again but its--its hard

cycle to break So that--so one of the things about becoming

sort of financially independent is that again if can look

you

at it yourself with integrity it--it really takes lot

away

of excuses for--for not facing to what God is

up really

saying to you

and then the other thing thats kind of fun is theres the

thing I--I might have said this before like when you graduate

from high school and you go on to college youre just like

well what want

gee do to be when grow up You know

could be an astronaut or could be doctor or could be

whatever and uh kind of get to do that again only Im

lot smarter than was when was 18 Or Im the same

smarter and wiser or whatever And so thats kind of fun

thing for me is to think okay well what--what do want to

do What--whats do want to look back on and Im

say

really glad did that there are people who are able to

do that in the midst of circumstances

really trying or their

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life is not all together and they say you know have this

passion for this so Im going to go do it And can kind of

do it from calm fl state And really admire the people

who are really able to--to do that without the know

you

sort of get an easy transition and Im just uh--just glad

get to do it the easy way because wasnt able to do it the

hard way

What will you be doing five from now

years

of tape

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