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Posted by: Donna Cunningham | April 28, 2010

Astrologers’ Hang-ups about Money—How they Hurt

our Clients

©2010 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

Apparently, I missed the conference where astrologers voted to drop sex and money from the
horoscope. By popular acclaim, the 2nd house is no longer about money, it’s about values or self-
esteem, and the 8th is now about transformation. At least, that’s the impression I’m ge ing as I read
recent articles, listen to astrologers speaking, and field readers’ questions in this series.

Yes, the 2nd house DOES show what we value most, and therefore how we spend our discretionary
income. Our set of values also gives some clues about what we are and aren’t willing to do to earn
money.

However, in 40 years of doing chart consultations, I have yet to have a client complain of tossing and
turning all night worrying about their values. In today’s difficult economy, a great many are
experiencing fear and suffering over finances. They can find it invaluable to explore what their 2nd
house shows about their finances and their money-management pa erns.

The 2nd House and False Self-Esteem vs. True Self-Worth

I find myself at a loss to understand why self-esteem would be a ributed to the 2nd. To me, the only
way the 2nd house tells you about your self-esteem is if your self-esteem is dependent on how much
money you have. It’s true that vast numbers of people today gain a false self-worth from their net
worth, but that’s very different than truly feeling good about yourself.

True self-esteem is a function of the Sun, along with self-worth, self-confidence, and other self words.
The house the Sun is placed in and the ma ers governed by that house are clues to the things that
make up our sense of self.
Our competence and success or lack thereof in addressing the ma ers of that house has a huge effect
on our self-esteem. In the 6th house, we base it on the quality of our work; in the 7th, it comes from
our partnerships; and on. The picture is further modified by the Sun’s sign, and aspects.

“It’s Not Nice to Talk about Money!”

So why do astrologers persist in focusing on values in the

2nd, rather than talking about money and on transformation
rather than sexuality in the 8th?

A major reason may be that it’s not considered polite to

delve into other people’s income or sexual practices–
certainly not in a social situation or with people you don’t
know well. Most of us would be rather uncomfortable with
bringing these topics up at a dinner party.

However, an astrology reading doesn’t follow the same rules

as ordinary social interactions, where these topics are taboo.
Clients are coming to you for help, and many of them suffer
from financial problems that cause a great deal of stress,
worry and deprivation. Such clients can benefit greatly from
taking an honest look at the ways they deal with their finances.

The thing is this: since it’s hard for people to talk about their money troubles socially, the
opportunity to talk those issues through in the privacy, confidentiality, and (hopefully) non-
judgementality of the consultation room is priceless. They can look at their money management
pa erns honestly and from a detached viewpoint and think about what needs to change. Why would
you deprive them of that chance by skirting the issue of finances because you’re not comfortable with
it?

Astrologers who can’t look at money in the chart aren’t going to be effective at helping the multitudes
of people who are having terrible financial problems during this recession or whatever they’re calling
it these days. That, in a nutshell, is why this series is unfolding on Skywriter right now.

How Addressing Money Issues Helps You Serve the Client Be er

To be truly helpful, we need to become at ease in talking about money and asking clients specifics
about their ways of managing it. The 2nd house can give important insights into the psychological
blockages that lead to unwise a itudes and practices in handling money.

Many gifted and deserving people are acclaimed for their work and still have a money neurosis that
keeps them from enjoying the fruits of their labor, so they live marginally. We also need to be
comfortable asking about debts, if the 8th house is highlighted natally or by transit, or if Pluto or
Scorpio planets appear in the 2nd.

(Practice until it feels okay to bring it up. You can do it tactfully: “Your chart looks like debts might
be a problem. How are you doing in that area?”)

Millions of people are caught in the debt trap that developed while Pluto was in over-expansive
Sagi arius, and so you might suspect that a client is one of them if one of the slow-moving planets
has been in the 8th house for a number of years.
I’m not saying we should do this with every client, but
certainly the ones who list finances and career among their
current concerns—or those whose 2nd/8th axis is ge ing
transits from the Cardinal t-square or the Neptune-Chiron
conjunction.

If this type of discussion is awkward for you–or maybe even

sets off your own anxiety about debt–then read up on credit
problems and solutions and and then practice talking about
it until you’re at ease. It doesn’t make you more spiritual to
avoid talking with your clients about money—it just makes
you less effective.

For instance, statistics consistently show that money

problems are the most common cause of marital disagreements. Yet, many clients will say they want
to talk about their relationship problems, but few admit that money is causing a strain on that
relationship. Thus, when a client raises relationship concerns, do you think to look at the 2nd and 8th
houses for answers? You won’t look or be comfortable discussing this facet of marital strife if money
is one of your blind spots.

Do Your own Money Management Pa erns Get in the Way?

I think that another reason so many astrologers prefer to talk about the 2nd as self-esteem or values
and rarely mention money is because so many of us have trouble managing money ourselves, and so
we’re at a loss in dealing with our client’s money difficulties in a helpful way.

I’m not talking about counseling people on their investments—financial astrology is a specialty it’s
prudent to leave to people with solid expertise in that area. But even if the stock market remains a
mystery, knowing our way around the farmers’ market is a skill that pays off.

If we haven’t a clue about how to manage our own money, learning sounder ways of doing that will
make our own lives less stressful and give us tools to use in coaching our clients. We can watch the
shows about people with shopping addictions. We can read books and articles about money and
listen to people like Suze Orman on television.

Can you do that without zoning out? It took me until I was 60 to start learning money management,
and then only because my survival depended on ge ing grounded during a very difficult Saturn
transit to my 2nd house. (Update: read more about the serious consequences of astrologers’
difficulties in addressing their own financial issues here: Living Off the Books—an 8th
House Quicksand (h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/off-the-grid%e2%80%94an-8th-house-
quicksand/).)

Understanding How your own 2nd House Colors the Picture

A great many of us who practice astrology or healing have the outer planets in the 2nd or 8th and
thus relate to the psychological pa erns we’ve discussed in earlier articles about Uranus, Neptune,
and Pluto in the 2nd and how they contribute to money problems.

A fresh look at your own chart will help you understand any discomfort you might have in
broaching this topic. It is important to understand your own 2nd house difficulties, because if you
don’t, not only will it get in the way of a successful practice, it also gets in the way of objectivity about
clients’ financial difficulties. And they will ask!
Worse, YOU WILL TEND TO PROJECT YOUR OWN ATTITUDES AND JUDGEMENTS ABOUT -
MONEY ONTO THE CLIENT’S SITUATION.

Suppose you have Uranus or Aquarius planets in the 2nd, while your client has Moon in Taurus in
the 2nd. You’re bound to have some disapproval of their value system, an a itude that can bleed -
through into the session. Inside you may be saying, “These Taurus people are just money grubbers.
Why aren’t they enlightened like me?” You doubtlessly wouldn’t say that aloud, yet what you do say
will have the undertone of disapproval, unless you’ve developed an exceptional capacity for self-
awareness and self-discipline.

Having Uranus or an Aquarius planet in the 2nd is one position that indicates being able to earn
money at astrology. On the other hand, both the social consciousness and the rebelliousness that
Uranus represents can get in the way of having this work that you love become a solid and reliable
source of income.

With this position, you might tell yourself, “I’m too enlightened to charge money like all you
materialists, I’m just on earth to enhance people’s consciousness.” It is important not to be a knee-jerk
rebel in a way that keeps you from earning a living and meeting your own and the client’s needs.

How the Outer Planets Affect our own Ability to Earn a Living

Those of us in the helping fields in general—and astrology in particular

—suffer from undervaluing their work and undercharging. Astrologers
who hide behind “values” because they find it hard to talk to clients
about their financial issues are often the same ones who have difficulty in
telling clients what they charge.

Many go for 10 years without raising their fees because they suffer from
guilt about charging for their work. They gain valuable experience as
astrologers, yet still charge what they did when they were just starting
out. More astrologers are uncomfortable with that than are comfortable.

Your way of handling the outer planets when they are in the 2nd can
affect your ability to earn a living as an astrologer or healer. For instance,
when Neptune or Pisces placements are in the 2nd, the question of
balancing spirituality with survival arises.

The practitioner may play the role of Rescuer and may be especially vulnerable to enmeshment in
clients’ money issues, because of feeling others’ anxiety or pain psychically. They could be
chronically taken advantage of or feel put upon because they have to do menial jobs to make a living
that get in the way of their dream of being a professional astrologer.

Ask yourself these questions:

Am I uncomfortable talking to clients about money?

Am I being paid what I’m worth for my work?

What does my 2nd house reveal about my own money pa erns?

Readers who are astrologers, do you relate to the issues in this article? How comfortable are you
with dealing with your clients’ money issues? And when was the last time you raised your fees?
Talk to us about it in the comment section!
Articles in the Astrology and Personal Finances series:

Readers Ask: Q & A about the 2nd House (h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/readers-

ask-q-a-about-the-2nd-house/)
The 2nd House and Money Management Pa erns
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/the-2nd-house-and-money-management-pa erns/)
Your 2nd House—A Clue to Extra Income (h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/your-2nd-
house%e2%80%94a-clue-to-extra-income/)
The Unsuspected Role of the 8th House in Fiscal Fitness
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/the-unsuspected-role-of-the-8th-house-in-fiscal-
fitness/)
Uranus in the 2nd—Freedom & Individuality, vs. Financial Stability
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/uranus-in-the-2nd%e2%80%94freedom-
individuality-and-finance/)
Saturn and Uranus Transits to the 2nd/8th House Axis
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/saturn-and-uranus-transits-to-the-2nd8th-house-
axis/)
Neptune in the 2nd—Money, Boundaries, & Codependency
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/neptune-in-the-2nd%e2%80%94boundaries-
codependency-and-money/)
Neptune Transits to the 2nd-8th Axis—Time to Get Real about Money
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/neptune-transits-to-the-2nd-8th-
axis%e2%80%94time-to-get-real-about-money/)
Money and Pluto in the 2nd House—The Haves vs. the Have Nots
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/money-and-pluto-in-the-2nd-
house%e2%80%94failing-for-spite/)
Thought Forms–How They Add to Money Blocks
(h ps://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/thought-forms-101-how-they-add-to-money-
blockages/)

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Posted in A Pluto-Saturn Preparedness Kit, Houses of the Horoscope, Pointers for Professionals,
Vocational Astrology | Tags: 2nd house, 2nd house money, 2nd house self-esteem, 2nd house values,
ARTICLES ABOUT ASTROLOGY, career astrology, career counseling, Donna Cunningham, financial
astrology, money and astrology, money management problems, Neptune and money, skywriter,
Uranus and money, vocational astrology

Great article, Donna! And important insights! I admit I am guilty of associating the 2nd house
with self-esteem and in fact the worse blow to my self-esteem in years came with an eclipse to the
ruler of my 2nd house and it also involved financial revelations. I do believe that our financial
health is a mirror of our self-esteem in many ways. But you are right that we shouldn’t neglect the
money side of the 2nd house, especially in these difficult economic times.

It’s funny though that every time I get an 8th house transit it’s all taxes and insurance and
paperwork!

By: Nikki on April 28, 2010

at 6:38 am

Reply

HI, Nikki, The 8th is definitely the house where the IRS lurks!! Transit after transit, it seems to
be so. I’d say insurance, too, and debts, all places where the bill collector gets active under
transits. When I see charts with Saturn or the outer planets in a long transit to the 8th, I counsel
people to be squeaky clean with their taxes, as any indiscretions will surely be detected. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 28, 2010

at 7:48 am

Reply

Another great article in a continuing series of great articles.

I’ve never had an astrolger ask me about or counsel me about money or sex other than to give
vague hints here and there.
An astrolger advised me to move to Brazil (I am in the USA) and when I asked that astrolger
about how I could get enough money to do such a thing, the astrologer said: Money is not the
issue here. If you really want to do this the money will come.”
I asked him where it might come from: An unexpected inheiritance, the lo o, sell off all my
possessions? What? How?
Huh? I am in debt, am employed but most of my money goes to debt repayment at this time,etc..
I KNOW I have money issues but to me that was an overly facile issue by someone who wanted to
give me radical advice but ignore the practicalities involved. And that astrologer is expensive and
braggs about their expertise right and left.
Another thing that bugs me is astrologers who say” If you were sufficiently developed spiritually
you would have manifested the money to pay me.
I don’t mind paying a decent fee to a good astrologer, but how in the world do we decide who is
good enough to command the big bucks? And in this economy, are the good ones willing to give
us a break or at least set up a payment plan like other professionals will do?
I have had expensive astrology readings where I wasn’t told anything I didn’t already know or
receive any new insights on my life and I have had much cheaper and even free readings that
were spot on.
So, Donna, how do we tell? Some advice here would be good!

By: MEL810 on April 28, 2010

at 8:47 am

Reply

Donna – I LOVE this article! I was thinking about this very topic this morning as I was composing
my astrology tweet for the day about the full moon in Scorpio, which of course has the Taurus
Sun/Scorpio Moon axis. I noted that many of the tweets I saw on my twi er list weren’t talking
about money and I wondered why with such a financial moon – and one squared by Mars with
retrograde Mercury conjunct the Sun. Anyway –all very fi ing for the Goldman Sachs hearings,
among other current events.
By: Amanda on April 28, 2010
at 9:39 am

Reply

Thank you, thank you, Donna. When I was studying to be a Certified Financial Planner we were
taught that money is a subject people consider more taboo to talk about than sex! Although, as
you say, sex is a close second.

I am very comfortable speaking to both business and astrology clients about money because I’ve
had so much experience with it in my other profession. I think with practice it gets easier and
easier, although I never did have much trouble since I’m fascinated by and love money as a
symbol. I think if an astrologer thinks of money as “the root of all evil” they will not want to talk
about it with clients, and maybe they shouldn’t!

As someone with my Sun in my 6th house, the quality of my work is the most important
contributor to my self-esteem. As I gain more and more experience I find it natural to raise my
prices for my accounting and financial planning work. I am paid very well for these skills.

Since I’m just back to practicing astrology, I feel I need to charge less until I gain solid experience.
If I charge too much, I feel under too much pressure to be really, really good – as good as I know I
will be when I get more experience under my belt. I expect my charging for astrology will go
about like my charging for business work goes: the more confidence I build the more I will charge.

By: Ellen Longo on April 28, 2010

at 10:50 am

Reply

I can relate to that, Ellen. When I raised my price to $300 at one point, I felt a tremendous
pressure to be world-class, and eventually, as the economy softened, went back down. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 28, 2010

at 11:15 am

Reply

Sun in the sixth. When I do something well, I feel invincible.

By: nray on April 28, 2010

at 10:52 am

Reply

My 2nd and 8th are completely empty…Libra-Aries axis..I feel I charge a ‘fair’ price to my clients.
I know what’s the upper and lower limits locally (and internationally) and charge ..in the middle.
I also always discuss money AND sex with clients. Most clients are happy to have someone
prepared to listen to them about these ‘issues’. Mind you I wouldn’t go into discussing them if the
client wasn’t happy with the subject.
I also recommend to countless clients the wonderful book ‘Your Money or Your Life’ by Alvin
Hall…
Funny Donna, how your blogs always arrive just when I’m ‘on the subject’ with a client..I was just
emailing a lady back about an appointment later this week…on this very issue, so once again
Donna your uncanny accuracy for ‘being in the zone’…thanx, great blog, luv it:)
In peace
Mary
xx

By: Mary English on April 28, 2010

at 12:54 pm

Reply

As always, wonderful POV, Donna… $ is something I’ve had to learn the hard way to talk about…
and I agree with Ellen- this was a hugely taboo subject when I was growing up…

so now, talk about it I do… a lot of my clients ask me about it, or are self-employed so need
perspective on it….

I honestly never related to the “self-esteem” part of the 2nd house, but I did get “values”-
especially linked to how you value $, do you treat it like you want it to stay around and grow and
do you ask for what you are worth…? all indicated in the 2nd house.

I see the 2nd as your relationship with money and your body (your most valuable possession), as
opposed to the 8th house (how your money is merged with another- or how your body likes to
merge with another… or others!).

What I talk about in a session depends on what the client came to me for- but my Scorpio side
never falters at a deeper exploration and is delighted by your opening this topic under its full
moon…. looking forward- Pamela

By: Pamela on April 28, 2010

at 1:09 pm

Reply

I think we would probably all be lying if we all said we’ve NEVER go en the heebie-jeebies before
when looking at a tough part of a client’s chart. This could anything from money, to sex, to
difficult family dynamics, to self-defeating behaviors – you name it. However, while we may feel
some initial trepidation about broaching what some would consider “taboo” topics, I think it is
important to remember that we are being paid for our professional advice, much like a counselor
or therapist. To avoid dealing with these issues simply because it makes us feel uncomfortable
does our client (and ourselves) a HUGE disservice!

The key is understanding that it is our professional obligation to shed light on some potentially
difficult areas, and that we must also go about this with sensitivity and resolve do our absolute
best to present this information in a manner that the client will be receptive to. Our own
discomfort or “issues” surrounding an area should not color how we counsel our clients – we
need to be able to retain objectivity and help to guide them clearly and honestly. Glossing things
over or omi ing the less-than-pleasant parts does not give them the complete and honest truth, as
it will only allow them to continue to be “in the dark” about a particular ma er.

As Uranus, planet of Awakening, is the planetary ruler of astrology, I can’t help but state the
obvious in saying that the main function of our job is to provide our clients with a new level of
awareness. Voluntarily skirting around certain issues is pre y much the antithesis of what this
profession stands for.
On the flip side of this coin, I have heard stories about other “professionals” in this field who dish
out their brand of “advice” with no regard at all for the feelings/sensitivities of the client, which is
equally as upse ing. They tend to speak in absolutes and leave the client feeling helpless and
exposed, which is completely counterproductive – not to mention victimizing. As astrologers we
will invariably have to deal with some private, sensitive areas and I strongly feel we have an
ethical duty to be honest, but also to be respectful and sensitive to where our client is at.

We should also know exactly where our own limitations lie in what we can provide to our clients.
Some of us may feel as if is our job to provide a client with “all the answers” or “fix all their
problems” – a certain level of detachment is essential to maintain in this profession. It is, after all,
their path – they have to walk it. We can’t do it for them.

Personally, I don’t find it difficult to talk about much of anything with a client – money or
otherwise. I may wince internally a li le bit when I see something difficult in a chart, but I take the
time to make sure I’m addressing the issue at hand in an honest and compassionate manner –
that’s really all I can do. If I played my cards right the client is able to open up and is willing to
ask themselves “How’s that REALLY working for me?” I can counsel, advise, and guide to the
best of my ability, but ultimately it is they who have to take the steps and make the necessary
changes when something isn’t working for them.

By: Alethea on April 28, 2010

at 1:18 pm

Reply

Aloha Donna This is a great article, and especially insightful for beginning astrologers who are
thinking of doing professional work. From what I’ve read here, it seems like finding a competent,
non-judgemental, compassionate astrologer is a hard task for someone who is seeking help on
life’s most pressing issues.

The standards for professional astrologers are not widely known by the public, and I’ve met quite
a few who are basically self-taught, have not had a teacher or mentor to evaluate them, or taken
any proficiency tests. And yet, they go “professional”, charge large fees for services, and haven’t a
clue as to how to conduct themselves in a consultation with a client. That can put the real
professionals with years of study, experience and competence in a precarious position when
charging a fee to equal their expertise.

I love the study of Astrology and all the great teachers and mentors who are so willing to pass on
their knowledge to students, and hope someday that the profession will be recognized by society
as a viable counseling tool, and not a game of stupid predictions and bossy instuctions from
incompetent people. Meleanna

By: Meleanna on April 28, 2010

at 1:45 pm

Reply

Meleanna,
Years ago, I knew a self-taught ‘pro’ astrologer who consistently crossed the line with women,
even advocating an ‘energy exchange’ for a reading: (Re: sex) If this man had been in any other
profession, he would have been stripped of his credentials and brought up on sexual
harassment charges.
This guy finally got married and went into business with his wife. She started charging huge
bucks for a chart reading and would always insert her particular co-dependency with into her
 work, saying all the women needed ‘male energy input’ into their charts from her husband.
She had no previous experience with chart reading prior to charging $100 a reading for charts.
And this was back in the 80’s when $100 was quite a bit for an astrologer that was not
nationally known.
I am not a professional astrologer but gee golly, I can read charts much be er than either of
those two. I started studying in 1969 and even hung out with the AFAN folks back when they
were in DC.
I just lack the sense of entitlement that those folks had.

By: MEL810 on April 29, 2010

at 5:28 pm

Reply

Hoo boy, Meloh! Some years back, I was part of an independent commi ee/effort to bring
the problem of astrologers who sexually harassed their clients and students to the a ention
of the organizations and the public. Some extremely devastating cases had come to light.

We wrote articles about it and took the problem to the major astrology groups. Several of
them already had provisions about it in their codes of ethics, but they all, universally, were
extremely loath to address the issue. Even raised the he said/she said problem. They felt
there was no way to penalize astrologers who did it, no legal teeth to enforcing the codes of
ethics anyway.

I always say that if we were taken seriously as a profession, we would need malpractice
insurance. And financial exploitation of clients belongs in the mix too. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 30, 2010

at 2:38 am

Hmm, I don’t know. I definitely agree with you that the 2nd and 8th Houses are primarily about
money, and that it is entirely stupid not to relate them to money when dealing with clients-
ESPECIALLY when finances are of huge concern. And yes, I’m totally with you on astrologers
projecting their own financial anxieties and undervaluing their own work, because I see a lot of it,
and I’m actively trying not to do it myself. When I do readings for clients, I do a SHIT TON of
homework, and I go really deep, and I try to be very a entive to what they most need guidance on
instead of just navel-gazing and projecting- so it kind of sticks in my craw when I meet other
astrologers who charge like $40 a pop for a reading and then they find out what I charge and
they’re like OMG WHY DO YOU CHARGE SO MUCH and I’m like WHY DON’T YOU YOU’RE
WAY MORE TALENTED THAN I AM.

But… I am going to make the argument for the 2nd-8th Houses reflecting values and self-esteem
too. This is my reasoning. The 1st House is the house of self, that is, you as you are. Most people
can’t help being their 1st House, as the qualities indicated there just kind of come “naturally.”

The 2nd House, however, has to do with acquired things. Money is acquired. Objects are
acquired. And, importantly, critically, so is self-esteem and self-worth. Like you said in your
article, self-esteem is often tied to things like money and objects and values, and like money and
objects and values, it’s extremely impermanent. Also, it has to be worked towards.

“Liking” yourself is just not the same as valuing yourself, i.e. believing that you deserve the most
basic things on Maslow’s hierarchy or what have you. Incredibly enough, some people who
acquire money and security don’t really think they deserve it. Some people deliberately don’t eat
because they don’t think they deserve to. Some people spend years of their life in therapy working
to build self-esteem because due to their circumstances, it is just not something they can easily
conjure up. It’s ACQUIRED.

And while the 2nd House has to do with money that we earn, and ultimately the self-worth and
self-esteem that we build, on a material earthly level, the 8th House takes it a step further- as the
opposite, it forces us to re-evaluate that self-worth as it relates to something much bigger and
larger and out of our control. Yes, all of us will inevitably depend on someone else’s money at
some point, and it will hugely shape our own relationship to money. But the 8th House’s other
associations (sex, death, etc.) do the same thing to our self-worth, and how we fit into a larger
picture.

I think it’s interesting that these associations are sandwiched between the 7th House (other
people) and the 9th House (worldview, philosophy, but in an intellectual way)- because the 8th
House embodies something that is somewhere between these two but still enormously powerful
in a very visceral way.

It is a very interesting discussion, though, because money, sex, death, the spiritual, and so forth
have all become wedged into the same taboo zone. In fact, I can’t even remember which astrologer
it was who once wrote something to the effect of “I’m not even going to TOUCH that shit” about
the 8th House, which certainly doesn’t help educate people. I stand my ground, though, that the
self-esteem/self-worth is just as strongly figured into that polarity as money.

By: lucywatchthesky on April 28, 2010

at 2:26 pm

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This is a fabulous exchange, Lucy, Donna F, Meleanna, Alethea, et al! I find much to ponder in
all that you are saying, but am above all grateful that we have a community of professionals
here who can discuss ideas such as these. Donna C.

By: Donna Cunningham on April 28, 2010

at 4:08 pm

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Amen to that!

Maybe it’s because I’m new-school, but because the primary theme of the 2nd is that of
being “the house of value” I personally find it intrinsically tied to how we come to value
ourselves. I’m not saying this in the sense that what we have (or don’t have) on the material
level should be the sole determining factor of how we feel about ourselves, rather that the
sense of self-worth cannot be had without first having a clear psychological definition of
what we “value” and whether or not we “own” these qualities.

For example, do we value honesty, compassion, or self-reliance? What would happen if we

failed to live a life in accordance with these values? I think it would be accurate to say we
would undoubtedly have a pre y crappy sense of self-esteem if we did not honor what we
value. If the 2nd tells us what we value – materially or otherwise – then I think it must also
give us some indication of how we feel about ourselves.
 Having said all this, I was also very interested to hear Donna’s take on this. Part of the
beauty of this forum is that it provides us with a vehicle to discuss our different
perspectives and experiences with astrology. I think it’s worth remembering that astrology
is an interpretive art and what holds true for one person may not always jive with another’s
point of view. We can all discuss it though, and hopefully learn something from one
another in the process!

By: Alethea on April 28, 2010

at 5:01 pm

Donna thanks again for yet another article on that freaky subject for me (Pluto & Uranus in 2!) –
money!!!! Particularly pertinent right now – having just lost a bundle in an investment, having a
manuscript rejected, and having very li le in the way of astrology work coming in (as in none)

– okay I live in the govt centered, capital of NZ – they ARE a conservative bunch here (yet NZ is
Aquarian? weird – our national b’day is 6 Feb)…. So anyone doing astrology here finds it difficult.

But back to the point – Lucy I really enjoyed your thoughts thank you. I agree with what you say
about self-worth, and with such a complex picture here myself, I can tell you I have thought alot
about this subject. SO much of my self-worth seems to be linked to my capacity (or lack thereof) to
generate income! It’s almost ridiculous. I have a loathing of ‘money issues’ – so Donna thanks for
the lecture – I do need to address this in myself.

This deep inner ‘reliance’ on others – I hate it -but somehow feel powerless to change it. I feel as if
everything I a empt in the wider world doesn’t really amount to much….

I guess I am keeping the sabotaging beliefs alive and well! I have ‘acquired’ this idea around my
own self worth AND it is interwoven, inextricably linked to money. And yes, I do feel I am
‘spiritual and no concerned with all of that material stuff’ on one level – but underneath, lurks the
monster of insecurity that will give me no peace with that. HELP….
Again, thank you for relevant and pertinent info at this time Donna. I think you’re fab!

By: Linda NZ on April 28, 2010

at 4:20 pm

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HI, Linda, thanks for sharing so honestly. As for self-sabotaging beliefs, we’ve all had them.
The new post I just put up addresses how such thoughts and beliefs can become “thought
forms” that actually a ract experiences that confirm those beliefs. (“Thought Forms–How
They Add to Money Blocks”) Check it out! Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 29, 2010

at 5:15 am

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Saturn is transiting my 2nd house. I am enormously grateful to you for this series at this time.
With Uranus conjunct Jupiter in Libra in the 2nd I am welcoming Saturn’s discipline, but it has
been so very difficult and hard. I am learning. Thank you.

By: diastella on April 28, 2010

at 10:42 pm

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 Hang in there, Diastella, I am planning to post a couple of pieces on transits to the 2nd. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 29, 2010

at 5:17 am

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..on the subject of counselling that has been raised a few times, before I went ‘professional’ I
studied a Certificate in Introduction to Counselling Concepts and joined the Astrological
Association.

Confidentiality is also important to remember.

I (as I’ve been in this job for so long) don’t talk about my clients in coffee shops…you don’t know
who you’re si ing near and this is a small, small world..

I’ve had far too many clients come and see me who ‘saw’ Mystic Meg on Brighton Pier, or
someone at a party who ‘read’ for them and told them they were going to die age XX…..very 8th
house stuff…and I’ve had to point out to them where I thought the person concerned might have
got that idea from…then have to re-assure them that they’re fine.
I agree with Meleanna there are people who work like that (or cause grief if you ask me!) and it’s
my job to be as professional as I can…
…however, we’re dealing with people…not planets and I think that’s where the problem comes
in….and I also have a supervisor where I can ‘take’ troublesome clients issues and talk them
through, so I don’t inflict my ‘stuff’ on the client.
I’m not perfect, no-one is, but an awareness of confidentiality, boundaries, projection, body-
language all help:)
In peace
Mary
xx

By: Mary English on April 29, 2010

at 12:49 am

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HI, Mary, The idea of having a supervisor or mentor to talk over issues that come up for the
practicing astrologer is such an excellent support system, but it’s rare, unfortunately, in the US.
I think it would be especially helpful for astrologers who are just starting out. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 29, 2010

at 5:11 am

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I’ll stick with Donna’s sex and money interpretation.

Of course, I have three planets in Scorpio, and Pluto links to my Sun with an opportunistic sextile.

By: palfano on April 29, 2010

at 7:45 am

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Great article, Donna. I have Uranus in the 2nd in my natal chart. I have grappled with all the key
points you make about this placement.

The tight economy has encouraged healing in my case. I’m finally ge ing comfortable with
making money from astrology. I realize that my devotion and huge investment for years of many
resources—time and money—to get to my present state of astrological insights deserves the same
decent living as any other profession. I’m watching so many people pushed out of their comfort
zone with the economy and surprisingly good results, in many cases, for the nudge. Makes me
envision a laughing God, grown impatient with the human resistance to change, giving us some
affectionate shoves in new directions by pu ing a clamp on our wallets.

I agree that self-esteem is primarily a Sun issue. The 2nd speaks to me of our relationship to
materiality. That can be money or ways to make it … but for me, the relationship to values is what
we care about enough to “put our money where our mouth is.” I’m going to start watching how
that shifts with transiting planets into the 2nd, joining Uranus, the resident free spirit. Venus is on
its way, and I’m afraid to envision the decorating scheme, LOL!

By: Joyce Mason on April 29, 2010

at 11:56 am

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“Put my money where my mouth is.” Great summary of the money=values equation. I’m so
glad to hear you’re back doing charts–we need you, Joyce. Next you’ll be back doing flower
essence consults!

I’ve known Joyce and her work since the 1980s, folks. Do check out her site and blog. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 30, 2010

at 2:14 am

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Donna, thanks for the positive testimonial! I’m doing a lot of pondering this Mercury
Retro about how far I want to go back into the Aquarian waters while still keeping focused
on my 1st love, writing. I’ve had my toe in, doing a few readings again in the past six
months. It felt be er than ever, so I’m sure it’s a cosmic nudge in the right direction.

By: Joyce Mason on April 30, 2010

at 9:55 am

Hi Everyone,

Dont you think we can stop pussy-footing around with “taboo” subjects and tell our truths? That
will free us up.
Nice blog,Donna,

As Ever,
Molly K.

By: Molly on April 29, 2010

at 5:07 pm

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I do think I’m lucky that I can comfortably talk sex and money with clients, I never realized how
much a problem it was for so many people! I think with a couple of planets in Capricorn as well as
a Saturn-Venus trine with Venus ruling my 2nd house makes me practical when it comes to
dealing with money issues. I also think the 2nd and 8th offset each other very well … how often
do money issues interfere with emotional and sexual intimacy within a relationship? The
conversation on this thread has been eye opening! Thanks again!

By: Nikki on April 30, 2010

at 5:15 am

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I do think that an astrologer having earth planets (other than Neptune, perhaps) in the 2nd
would be quite an asset in both advising and modeling healthy, practical money management
skills to clients. We all bring a certain background to our astrology practices, and that is why
we are all different. Donna

By: Donna Cunningham on April 30, 2010

at 7:47 am

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Donna, we need that commi ee back, because sexual harassment still happens. Especially
considering all the huge generational gaps that exist in the community right now, there are certain
older men (no names, of course) who are only really enthused about the new generation because
they really believe they have the right to any Pluto-in-Scorpio with a vagina. I’ve experienced it
myself, and I’ve heard tons of stories from friends about certain astrologers who have, if not
actually propositioned them, made them seriously uncomfortable at events and via e-mail. And
the higher organizations damn well should take it seriously, because for every douchehound
astrologer who sexually harasses his colleagues and clients, that’s about ten more people who
decide that astrology is bunk and we really are all a bunch of manipulative David Koresh sex
maniacs.

By: lucywatchthesky on April 30, 2010

at 6:05 am

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You go, Lucy!! They are certainly out there and I only wish I could name names. There is one
who is famous but also notorious, and more than one gal who worshipped him from afar
because he’s so grandiloquent has scheduled an expensive appointment with him at a
conference and been shocked when he put his hand down her blouse. It infuriates me that
there’s nothing that can be done. Donna

PS. I guess we ARE doing the 2nd/8th axis, after all.

By: Donna Cunningham on April 30, 2010

at 7:51 am

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Oh boy, where do I begin hehe? My second house is ruled by Cancer (making my 8th Capricorn of
course) but my 4 Cappy placements all land in my 7th, not 8th. No planets are in my 2nd, so in
going to the ruler – my Moon is in the 3rd (Leo), and I feel the aspects are really important in this
case: trine Jupiter in Aries/11th, opposite Venus and Saturn in Aquarius/9th, square Neptune in
Scorpio/6th, and exactly parallel to Pluto/4th! (For those who need to know – a parallel is a
declination measurement and can act similarly to a conjunction).

So right away, anyone can see the Moon opposite Saturn as an issue – and with Saturn in
rulership and almost at the midheaven, Saturn wins, not the Moon! Venus opposite the Moon
(wants vs. needs) is also a bit tricky, and I still figure out ways to reconcile those energies. The
Pluto influence can feel pre y fearful, but I am conquering that over the years.

The hardest aspect to me is the square to Neptune!! For a long time, despite my best efforts to
understand, I would think I finally get it, but then it would just slip away (and when Neptune was
transiting my 8th, this was more evident!). Marrying a Pisces with a good relationship with
Neptune is helping me understand this energy and how to operate with it.

I think the Jupiter trine has saved me more times than I can count and keeps my spirits up. I have
always been able to manifest the bare minimum of what I need in the nick of time, but find it
difficult to build more than that.

This has reflected by me learning lessons only to have more and different lessons thrown in right
after. I am ge ing MUCH closer now, and I believe the key (besides ancestral healing, energetic
healing, etc. that would stray this way off topic) is a good relationship with Neptune. In those
areas, I need to trust SPIRIT and not be concerned how it will all work, and just KNOW it will
because I ask for it with right intention.

By the way, one of my other observations is when the Moon is in hard aspect with Saturn, there
can be geographical issues involved, and that certainly has also been the case with me – and I am
figuring out how to get around those challenges, mostly via internet. Would like to see how others
experience, and handle, these aspects (especially the Neptune ones) if they have them!

By: AarTiana on May 3, 2010

at 9:31 pm

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Interesting discussion. I like to think of the 2nd house as what we value and do we live up to what
we value in a good way. If we stay true to our own spiritual values we feel good about ourselves.
My 2nd house is empty except for the Asteroid Ceres that is in a 4 degree conjuction to Vesta at
the end of the 1st house.. The 2nd is ruled by Pluto or Mars. Pluto ( 10th H) squares Ceres in the
2nd house and represents the old saw between the changing of the seasons and being in harmony
with this cyclic change. Sometimes my finances are good and gets me what I need and at other
times its tight but I get by.
I use to practice WOLF eating….ie Feast when the feasting s good and fast whether I need to or
not. This keeps my body fit for change.
I do soul charts for my friends…usually 30 hand wri en pages and charge them 100.00. I figure
people have hard times in the economy and I do not need to charge more than this. I do not do
public advertising or do it for a living. I do Tarot at public events once in a while and do people in
general and feel like a councilor when I do this and my greatest pleasure is that people are
satisfied and give me positive feedback so I feel like it really helped them.
If people can not pay my asking price I do trades and one freebie to amp the day. I use to do Hand
readings for the public and have had all kinds from all walks of life and levels of discussions. This
is very interesting for me and I value the experience.

By: Barehand on August 17, 2011

at 8:17 am
 Reply

@Barehand: Enjoyed reading that. Thank you for sharing!

By: nray on August 17, 2011

at 8:21 am

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