Public Hearing For Proposed St. Lawrence Wind Project March 24 2007

PUBLIC HEARING ON THE PROPOSED
ST. LAWRENCE WIND ENERGY PROJECT
Held on March 24, 2007, at 9:00 AM, at the Cape Vincent
Recreation Center, South James Street, Cape Vincent,

New York, before Town of Cape Vincent Planning Board Members
Richard Edsall, Chairman, Tom Ingersoll, Vice Chairman,
Andrew Binsley, Karen Bourcy, and George Mingle. Also
Present were Mark Gebo, Esq., and Kris Dimmick, PE.

Court Reporter was Sally B. Maiorano, Registered Merit
Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified CART
Provider, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and Notary Public in
and for the State of New York.
PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

315-436-7775
2
1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Please take your seats.

2 Please take your seats, we're going to start.
3 Before we start, I need to just read a
4 few guidelines of what we're going to do. And

5 just before we do that we will open the
6 meeting. I will introduce everybody up here.
7 We have Sally, who is keeping a record of
8 this; the town's attorney, Mark Gebo; Kris

9 Dimmick from Bernier Carr. For those of you
10 who do not know me, my name is Rich Edsall,
11 and I'm Planning Board Chairman. We have
12 Karen Bourcy from the Planning Board; Andy

13 Binsley from the Planning Board; George Mingle
14 from the Planning Board; and Tom Ingersoll
15 from the Planning Board, and he is Vice
16 Chairman.
17 Today is a public hearing where the
18 public is going to get to present to the Board
19 their opinions, their recommendations, their
20 disagreements with the draft environmental

21 impact statement, studies that are included in
22 it, studies that are missing from it, studies
23 that should be included in it.
24 This is the opportunity for you to make

25 your presentation. What you will need to do

315-436-7775
3
1 is you will need to come up close so the

2 stenographer gets the record. This is a
3 public record, the same as if you were in
4 court. So what we're going to ask you to do

5 is identify yourself, my name is Jim Smith,
6 and then spell your name if it's a name that
7 you feel needs to be spelled or your name is
8 spelled differently. All right?

9 You will be given three minutes to speak.
10 If at the end when everybody has spoken we
11 still have additional time left, we will allow
12 you to respeak if you have something else you

13 would like to say or -- you also have the
14 right to turn in a written response, and you
15 have until June 15th of this year to turn
16 your written response in. And you can mail it

17 to the town of Cape Vincent Planning Board,
18 PO Box 680. If you don't know the PO box you
19 can just write Town of Cape Vincent Planning
20 Board, Town of Cape Vincent offices, Cape

21 Vincent, New York, 13618.
22 And those records will be all put
23 together, and then the Planning Board will go
24 through them. This is first of several public

25 hearings. As there is additional studies

315-436-7775
4
1 done, additional information gathered, as the

2 Planning Board has an opportunity to go
3 through the information that is being
4 supplied, there will be an additional public

5 hearing. I cannot tell you when because we
6 don't know when everything is going to be
7 done. It could be done in August, September,
8 October, November, March of next year. There

9 is no date set.
10 When that is done there will be an
11 additional one afterwards, at least one more,
12 for the final environmental impact statement.

13 There could be more than those two, but there
14 will be at least those two going forward.
15 When those public hearings are done, the
16 next step is a site plan review process. And

17 there will also be a public hearing or
18 hearings, depending on what's going on, on
19 those as well.
20 What I'm going to ask you to do today is

21 because we are here to listen to your
22 comments, that you do not speak unless you are
23 the speaker. There is no cross comment.
24 There's no cheering, jeering, clapping, or

25 whatever. We expect you to all be ladies and

315-436-7775
5
1 gentlemen.
2 I have someone who is timing the three
3 minutes. When we get to the three minutes I
4 will stand up and ask you to -- I won't ask

5 you, but I'll stand up. The fact that I've
6 stood up should indicate that you're running
7 out of time. All right? But again, you can
8 submit written comment up until June 15th.

9 What will happen when we are done today
10 is we're going to adjourn the meeting so that
11 we can continue, we're not -- the meeting is
12 not canceled, stopped, whatever, we're just

13 adjourning it; the comment period will
14 continue. All comments are going to be
15 addressed to the Board.
16 All right. And the first person I have

17 on the list is Carol Simpson. We would ask
18 you to come up and speak in front of the
19 stenographer and address your remarks, please.
20 MS. SIMPSON: Do I really have to be

21 first?
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Well, you can pass if
23 you want.
24 MS. SIMPSON: Because I was the first one

25 here. My name is Carol Simpson. I'm a

315-436-7775
6
1 resident here, year-round resident now.

2 I visited the St. Lawrence Wind Farm site
3 and looked at the avian and bat study plan and
4 the DEIS to be done by Western Ecosystems

5 Technology, Incorporated.
6 I hope the DEC and the U.S. Fish and
7 Wildlife Service does due diligence and makes
8 sure to find out the impacts on the migratory

9 birds, the bats, and the endangered species
10 here.
11 I'm also relying on these agencies to, if
12 necessary, ensure the relocation of wind

13 towers to accommodate the wildlife in this
14 area. Our area is so unique, where the lake
15 and river meet. It's different from any other
16 place in New York State. We're fortunate to

17 have this rich heritage of wildlife, and we've
18 already seen a decline in some rare and
19 endangered species here.
20 I am for green energy, but in the proper

21 locations. If it's harmful to the migratory
22 birds, the bats, and the endangered species,
23 to me it defeats the purpose.
24 I'm looking forward to seeing the results

25 of these studies from the DEIS, and I hope any

315-436-7775
7
1 negative results endangering our fine

2 feathered friends will be given serious
3 consideration by all the responsible parties.
4 Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Dave
6 Docteur.
7 MR. DOCTEUR: My name is David Docteur,
8 and I visited the Maple Ridge Wind Farm up

9 there, and I think everybody should do that,
10 especially the Gardner Road and the Rector
11 Road and the Flat Rock Road.
12 But some of things -- I only got three

13 minutes, so I just want to make sure I get
14 this. And the fish study, I don't think
15 there's been any study on the fish and the
16 shadow effect that it will have out on the

17 water.
18 Fish are -- they spook to shadows, and
19 there will be shadows out there. They say --
20 these fellows up here say they'll go a mile or

21 two.
22 The shadow flicker. People up there get
23 shadow flicker in their house and on their
24 lawn, and it -- as they admit in this book

25 here that it goes for 3,000 feet, ten times

315-436-7775
8
1 the diameter of the blades. This is the --

2 what shadow flicker is going to do here, it's
3 what they show anyway. This is one map. And
4 here is one with a vegetation. It's in this

5 book. A little less for the vegetation.
6 But in red, that's 50 hours or more of
7 shadow flicker. You can see there's a lot of
8 red on that map.

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Please address your
10 comments to the Board. The Board is the one
11 that needs to see this.
12 MR. DOCTEUR: That's right. All right.

13 The red right on that map. Okay. Shadow
14 flicker goes through your house. It's like
15 dimming lights every second. It's like
16 somebody dimming your lights.

17 And this fellow up there said it goes
18 through his house an hour, an hour and a half
19 sunrise and sunset. Some of the time; not
20 every day.
21 Noise up there, they'll tell you that
22 2,000 feet away they can hear them, but when
23 the conditions are right, the air is moist and
24 the wind's coming from that direction, they

25 can't sleep at night, 2000 feet away. He said

315-436-7775
9
1 that they will tell you that they ought to be

2 at least 3,000 feet. Minimum.
3 Those are the main things. These other
4 things on the -- I would like to say this too:

5 Anyone who would like to go up and experience
6 this, I would be glad to meet them in this
7 parking lot Sunday afternoon at 2:00 and lead
8 a convoy and show you these places, talk to

9 these people that they have to live with these
10 things. One guy is surrounded by them; his
11 environment has been basically ruined.
12 That's all I have for now.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Don
14 Metzger.
15 MR. METZGER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
16 If I could just stay right here, Sally is

17 right in front of me.
18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the
19 opportunity to speak. My name is Don Metzger.
20 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Just spell your name

21 for her, please.
22 MR. METZGER: Yes, I'm sorry.
23 M-E-T-Z-G-E-R. I'm a business owner here in
24 Cape Vincent. I'm not here to speak in favor

25 of the wind turbine farms or against the wind

315-436-7775
10
1 turbine farms. I am asking a special request

2 of the Planning Board that they would consider
3 that if the towers come here, if we have a
4 wind farm in our neighborhood, that the town

5 fathers and the people who are dealing with
6 the regulation of this operation, that they
7 take very specific efforts to have in writing
8 that a bond be posted in U.S. dollars,

9 hopefully in the Cape Vincent Bank, a bond
10 that would cover the costs of the
11 decommissioning and removal of all towers and
12 associated equipment, including the

13 long-distance transmission lines that --
14 150 kV lines that would take the power from
15 here to Chaumont.
16 Why do I want that? Why do I think the

17 Planning Board should do that? I've been
18 around a long enough time to see big
19 companies -- and Acciona and BP are big
20 companies -- I've been around long enough to

21 see big companies, both foreign and domestic,
22 fall. And sometimes the bigger they are, the
23 harder they fall.
24 In 10, 15, 20 years from now if Acciona

25 or BP or one of them gets bought out by an

315-436-7775
11
1 investor in China and then he decides he

2 doesn't want to be involved in wind power
3 anymore, or they go bankrupt or out of
4 business, now we've got all these huge towers

5 in our community that are in a state of
6 nonmaintenance, disrepair, getting rusty,
7 falling apart. And the removal of them would
8 be incumbent upon the town and the property

9 owners. I don't want to see that. I want to
10 see these removed if they need to be at any
11 time from the money of a bond.
12 Twenty years from now, it's a long time,

13 we have to take into account cost of living.
14 So that bond has got to be big enough to take
15 care of cost of living and all associated
16 costs for the removal of associated structures

17 and the remediation of the land from the
18 decommissioning.
19 If that point is clear, I have one more
20 point if I have enough time. Thank you,

21 Mr. Chairman.
22 The other point is I'm old enough to have
23 seen and heard commercial advertising permeate
24 all aspects of our society; you cannot get

25 away from commercial advertising. I don't

315-436-7775
12
1 want to wake up some morning and look out and

2 see a 300-foot high Pepsi bottle over here and
3 a 300-foot high Coke bottle over there, a
4 300-foot high hamburger. No advertising in

5 any form, electronic, verbal, no decals.
6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Last name is Reinhart,
8 Marianna?
9 MS. REINHART: My name is Marianna
10 Reinhart, R-E-I-N-H-A-R-T.
11 Regarding the transmission lines
12 transporting electricity from Cape Vincent to

13 the National Grid, where are the transmission
14 lines located in Cape Vincent? Will they
15 cross the Chaumont River or cross the Ashland
16 Wildlife area? How high will the transmission

17 poles be? And how many will be erected in
18 Cape Vincent? And what will be the distance
19 between them?
20 Also, has the town designated the

21 responsibility of the repair and/or the
22 replacement of roads in the town and the
23 village of Cape Vincent due to damage that
24 will be caused by the heavy-duty equipment and

25 machinery and the massive trucks that will

315-436-7775
13
1 carry the necessary components to make the

2 turbines a complete structure.
3 Will the companies wanting to place the
4 turbines in Cape Vincent post a bond in an

5 adequate amount to cover costs of replacement
6 and repair of the roads so the taxpayers do
7 not have to have that carry -- have to carry
8 that burden?
9 Finally, when this windmill project was
10 proposed, I thought it was the understanding
11 that any windmills would be located east of
12 Route 12. Looking at the proposed map, it

13 shows seven windmills to be located between
14 Route 12 and Valley Road. Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you very much.
16 Joyce Gormel?
17 MS. GORMEL: My name is Joyce Gormel,
18 G-O-R-M-E-L.
19 Mr. Chairman: The draft environmental
20 impact study, DEIS, references in Section

21 311(2)(3) titled Municipal Revenues and Taxes
22 that annual PILOT payments would be negotiated
23 along with road use agreements.
24 As a tax-paying resident in the town of

25 Cape Vincent, I'm very interesting in how this

315-436-7775
14
1 project will benefit all the residents of Cape

2 Vincent. I am concerned about who will be
3 negotiating the PILOT payments for our town.
4 It occurs to me that the Town Board does not

5 have a voting quorum.
6 It is my understanding that two members
7 have recused themselves after consulting with
8 the Jefferson County Ethics Board, and one

9 newly elected member will have to recuse
10 himself because of his potential conflict of
11 interest. That leaves two voting members on
12 the Town Board. Will they be the only

13 individuals who will negotiate with SLW for
14 PILOT payments?
15 Acciona, the company being dealt with,
16 had sales of approximately $6.2 billion,

17 billion, last year. Are there any plans to
18 hire professional help to assist in
19 negotiating the tax relief and other benefits
20 to our community with this, as Billy Fuccillo

21 would say, huge conglomerate.
22 Timing for these negotiations is
23 critical. Where does Cape Vincent stand in
24 the negotiation process? Is the process

25 complete, in progress, or not started?

315-436-7775
15
1 In most existing wind farm projects the

2 PILOT payment is 5% of what the industry
3 should be taxed at in New York State. In an
4 interview with Attorney Richard Graham, who

5 represented Maple Ridge -- the Maple Ridge
6 project, local officials felt that the
7 compensation offered by the developer was low,
8 and that was $5,000 per tower. Compared to

9 what otherwise would have been payable at the
10 full assessed value for each tower.
11 Additionally, the relative distribution
12 between the school district, town, and county

13 became a point of heated debate because of the
14 small dollars involved. Now, you ask what
15 changed the municipality's perspective? The
16 county planning director was successful in

17 certifying Flat Rock Wind Power, LLC as a
18 qualified Empire Zone enterprise. This would
19 allow the developer to pay full property taxes
20 to the taxing jurisdictions and in turn be

21 reimbursed 100% by the state of New York.
22 This was the first time that a wind farm had
23 been placed in an Empire Zone in New York. As
24 a result of these efforts, they are now able

25 to negotiate a PILOT agreement whereby Flat

315-436-7775
16
1 Rock will make annual payments of up to

2 $46,000 per tower to be divided among the
3 taxing jurisdictions.
4 Big surprise, right? Let's do the math.

5 The developer first offered 5,000 per tower.
6 Now the state of New York will reimburse the
7 developer 100% with our tax dollars. It is
8 not the responsibility of the current citizens

9 of Cape Vincent to absorb, nor the town, to
10 place additional tax burden on private
11 property taxpayers after a one to $200 million
12 wind project is sitting in our township.

13 I look forward to the opportunity to
14 review the results of the negotiations our
15 town drafts with the St. Lawrence Wind Power,
16 LLC. Thank you for listening.

17 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Tom Gormel?
18 MR. GORMEL: Mr. Chairman, my name is Tom
19 Gormel, G-O-R-M-E-L, and I'm a tax-paying
20 resident of the town of Cape Vincent.

21 One section of the draft environmental
22 impact statement, the DEIS, that I am most
23 concerned about is the cumulative impact these
24 96 425-foot towers will have on the residents

25 of Cape Vincent.

315-436-7775
17
1 This subject is inadequately addressed in

2 the DEIS on Page 4-1. We all know about the
3 proposed wind farms in the town of Clayton,
4 the BP wind project in the town of Cape

5 Vincent and Lyme, and most recently we are
6 being told about the wind farm that's going to
7 be on the Wolf Island.
8 All of these projects will have a

9 cumulative impact on the residents of and
10 wildlife and resources in this community.
11 Unlike the Maple Ridge project, which has
12 an approximate population density of 10 to 15

13 people per square mile, Cape Vincent has
14 approximately 600 people per square mile.
15 Clearly the Maple Ridge project should not be
16 used as a model to mitigate cumulative impact

17 on SLW's project.
18 I would like to know what the cumulative
19 impact of all of these projects will have on
20 the residents of our community. Cape Vincent

21 is truly unique in its geographic location.
22 As you know, migratory birds will not cross
23 Lake Ontario, but rather find their way to the
24 juncture of Lake Ontario and St. Lawrence

25 River. In other words, they fly over Cape

315-436-7775
18
1 Vincent; however, what will they do when they

2 experience this project that will stretch from
3 Lake Ontario to Thousand Island School? In
4 addition to that, the birds will be faced with

5 another project in Burnt Rock Road that will
6 go into the town of Lyme, as well as the
7 project in the town of Clayton. How will all
8 these together impact the migratory birds in

9 this area?
10 And finally, I would like to know the
11 cumulative impact of these projects on the --
12 how will the wind-generated electricity be

13 transferred to the National Grid? We have
14 been told that the current transmission lines
15 cannot accommodate the proposed wind power.
16 Electrical power.
17 I am very interested in learning how SLW
18 proposes to mitigate the cumulative impact of
19 all of these projects on the transmission of
20 electricity to the National Grid.

21 In contrast to SLW's DEIS, the Canadian
22 Renewable Energy Corporation noticed --
23 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: If you don't have much
24 you can finish.

25 MR. GORMEL: Okay. The notice of

315-436-7775
19
1 commencement of environmental review for Wolf

2 Island states exactly where and how the
3 electricity will be connected to the
4 provincial grid. How refreshing and

5 forthright to read something like that rather
6 than SLW's statement to be determined.
7 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you.
8 MR. GORMEL: Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Ann Levy?
10 MS. LEVY: Good morning. My name is Ann
11 Levy. I am a -- have a year-round residence
12 on County Route 7. I have this for you so

13 that you can look at if you need to. L-E-V-Y.
14 To the Planning Board, the lead agency
15 and -- of the St. Lawrence Wind Project. Due
16 to the fact that we are unable to post

17 comments on the Acciona website, we wanted
18 everyone to know that we have created a web
19 page whereby all comments, positive, negative,
20 neutral, regarding the DEIS and the wind

21 project can be aired objectively. The new
22 website name is www.stlawrencewind.org.
23 This site has been initiated to tell the
24 story to everyone without confusion and is the

25 home for experienced voices other than the

315-436-7775
20
1 panel and Acciona. The site was created to

2 facilitate communications for submitting
3 emails in order that everyone can share with
4 each other and for the purpose of being a

5 depository for all public information. Thank
6 you.
7 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Cliff Schneider.
8 MR. SCHNEIDER: I have some material

9 here. Hi, my name is Cliff Schneider,
10 S-C-H-N-E-I-D-E-R.
11 Three issues I would like to talk about
12 from the DEIS. One has to do with the bird

13 and bat studies, the other is the visual
14 analysis, and the third is the noise studies.
15 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: We can't
16 hear you, Cliff.

17 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: His -- he'll do the
18 best he can, but his obligation really is to
19 make sure the Board gets the information.
20 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: Maybe if

21 he could just stand over here.
22 MR. SCHNEIDER: I'll try to speak loudly,
23 okay?
24 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: How about

25 a microphone?

315-436-7775
21
1 MR. SCHNEIDER: I don't want to use a

2 microphone.
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: He doesn't want to use
4 it.
5 MR. SCHNEIDER: My comments, first, with
6 respect to the bird and bat studies. You've
7 got a letter from a number of biologists, four
8 of us, that are retired here in Cape Vincent,

9 which we've probably got 150 years of
10 experience. Those are the kinds of things
11 that we've done and stuff. And we have real
12 concerns about there's only one year of study

13 here.
14 Now, if you go back to take a look what
15 what AES Acciona has done when they came here,
16 they've been doing wind studies for five or

17 six years, right? They've had a met. tower up
18 here, they've been collecting that data.
19 It makes good sense when you're making
20 big decisions to have more than one year's

21 worth of data. I would have said they would
22 have been irresponsible with one year of wind
23 date because you really can't see the
24 variation.
25 So what we're saying is let's have some

315-436-7775
22
1 at least a minimal amount of parody with the

2 environmental studies. You can't do in a
3 year; you're going to need at least three.
4 The other thing, the issue of the visual

5 analysis report you've got right there. I
6 have concerns over the author. Who is the
7 author? Where are they from? It mentions
8 there is an author. Where are they from; what

9 are their credentials?
10 Because in essence, when you take a look
11 at that report, with over 50 pages of
12 description and about two paragraphs of

13 analysis, I don't know who this person is, but
14 they're making determinations about our
15 community and the impacts of that visual
16 stuff.
17 Now, if you go to other areas I'll tell
18 you within the DE -- they've got a DEC policy
19 that they quote in there, and they quote
20 things for -- you know, that help them to

21 support some of the things they're going to
22 do.
23 One of the things they say in there in
24 that policy is the fact that you have to have

25 confirmation of those impacts by other

315-436-7775
23
1 individuals, by other certified personnel and

2 that type of thing, or with surveys, and they
3 have not done that. There's only one
4 individual who's making that determination.

5 The other thing: A big part of that is
6 the conclusions. Well, if you go into the
7 conclusions for the St. Lawrence -- what they
8 did here, the Saratoga Associates, it's

9 exactly the same conclusion, if you go on the
10 website and take a look at the report, for
11 Chateaugay and Wethersfield wind parks. Same
12 words, exactly, down to the -- down to the

13 letter.
14 And I'm assuming that, you know, both
15 George and Rich, who have had some experience
16 in the classroom, if someone comes in and

17 copies their homework, you know what kind of
18 mark you're going to give them; you're going
19 to give them an F.
20 So you know, they really have to go back,

21 they got to do a visual perception survey, and
22 they've really got to do a better job on the
23 conclusions.
24 And finally, with respect to the noise,

25 noise is probably the most complicated thing

315-436-7775
24
1 you've got in there in terms of the report.

2 Most of the average people aren't going to
3 make any sense of that. It's probably very
4 difficult for all of us.

5 And I would hope that all of you saw that
6 letter from Jane Davis. She wrote that letter
7 to her councilman in the UK because of her
8 concerns, if you read that. I've got copies

9 of that letter if you haven't.
10 I was the one who requested and asked her
11 to send the same letter here. And the reason
12 that that was important was because of the

13 fact that, one, she was a farmer; two, is the
14 fact that she supported wind farms and
15 windmills; and then third is the fact that in
16 the end when she had all of this disturbance

17 of all of these problems, all she was saying
18 is make sure they do that sound level report
19 properly. And the problem is with this outfit
20 they have not done that properly.

21 And by the way, I've got some CDs of some
22 noise so you can actually listen to it, you
23 don't have to read about. And I have CDs that
24 are available for other people as well if you

25 want to listen. Thank you.

315-436-7775
25
1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: I will say right now

2 that the Planning Board did not anticipate
3 getting copies of CDs. We have no idea how
4 we're going to make them available to the

5 public.
6 So they will not -- even though they're
7 part of the record, we'll have to discuss that
8 at a future meeting. I don't know how to do

9 it without -- unless we're authorized to make
10 copies.
11 MR. SCHNEIDER: Oh, we are. I have been
12 authorized. I got it from a scientist in the

13 Netherlands.
14 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: If you want to send the
15 Planning Board a letter stating that we are
16 authorized to make copies of these, then after

17 severing the letter we probably would make
18 copies. That might be the easiest way to do
19 that then.
20 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: Richard,

21 could I speak off the record for one minute
22 and say you can put one in the library with
23 the DVDs.
24 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Are they all the same

25 or are they different?

315-436-7775
26
1 MR. SCHNEIDER: They're all the same.

2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: I happen to know
3 somebody who knows where the library is.
4 Next is Sally Hirschey.

5 MS. HIRSCHEY: Boy, that's a tough act to
6 follow. My name is Sally Hirschey,
7 H-I-R-S-C-H-E-Y.
8 And I just want to say to the Planning

9 Board, but also to the people in Cape Vincent,
10 before we change the character of this
11 village --
12 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Ma'am, please address

13 your comments to the Board.
14 MS. HIRSCHEY: Before we change the
15 character of this village and town from a
16 quiet village to an industrial zone, I think

17 we need more facts. For instance, instead of
18 the to be determined, to be determined where
19 the line is going to go, to be determined
20 where the 44 miles of new roads are going to

21 go, to be determined the sites of the wind
22 turbines and -- will change it forever for
23 ourselves, our children, our grandchildren.
24 And I think it's a very serious step, and I

25 think it deserves very serious study. Okay.

315-436-7775
27
1 Thank you.
2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Urban
3 Hirschey.
4 MR. HIRSCHEY: Why is it that I'm always

5 following her?
6 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Suggestion: Try to be
7 ahead of her next time.
8 MR. HIRSCHEY: The last name is Hirschey,

9 you have the spelling, first name is Urban,
10 U-R-B-A-N.
11 Section 7 of the draft environmental
12 impact study addresses the feasibility of the

13 scaled down version of this project or no
14 project. Essentially that's a summary of -- I
15 think it's the last section -- it's a summary
16 of the project and addresses the feasibility

17 of that project. I believe that the
18 developer's response to this question is
19 consistent with the prior way in which other
20 issues have been addressed. It is

21 condescending and to my -- and ignores the
22 beauty of this community.
23 When Governor Spitzer compared the North
24 Country to Appalachia, he might have been

25 referring to some unpopulated areas such as

315-436-7775
28
1 the Tug Hill Plateau. He certainly wasn't

2 describing Cape Vincent or the Golden
3 Crescent.
4 Through the use of misleading and

5 outdated facts, the study portrays Cape
6 Vincent as a depressed and stagnant area.
7 Cape Vincent is anything but depressed. It's
8 a beautiful and dynamic community which is

9 attracting a lot of new people, vacationers,
10 and construction.
11 A comparison of the towns of Martinsburg
12 and Harrisburg, which hosts all but 12 of the

13 Maple Ridge wind turbines, to Cape Vincent is
14 meaningful. The combined land area of these
15 two townships is twice that of Cape Vincent.
16 The population, on the other hand, is half of

17 Cape Vincent. And as a matter of fact, that's
18 during the wintertime. During the summertime
19 the population of Cape Vincent is probably
20 four times that of the combined towns of

21 Martinsburg and Harrisburg.
22 During the -- the Tug Hill has few
23 visitors and few roads. Cape Vincent, on the
24 other hand, has many visitors and summer

25 residents that enjoy the beauty and

315-436-7775
29
1 recreational opportunities of this area.

2 The wind turbines on the Tug Hill Plateau
3 do not encroach upon any village. There are
4 no villages, formal villages in these

5 townships. The proposed sitings of the
6 St. Lawrence wind turbine encroaches on the
7 village, on the river, and on the natural
8 beauty of the area.

9 The study points out that the average
10 house in Cape Vincent is $77,000. That's in
11 the year 2000, which is very much outdated. I
12 would also add that -- and that this is much,

13 much less than the average home in New York
14 State. Of course, New York State has a lot of
15 urban areas where real estate is at a premium,
16 so -- but so is the cost of living.

17 The study also fails out to point that
18 the average assessment of homes in Cape
19 Vincent has increased dramatically since 2000.
20 65% of the town assessed value from the river

21 and lakefront properties, which is --
22 continue?
23 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: If you don't have much,
24 continue. Otherwise you'll have to kind of --

25 MR. HIRSCHEY: Okay. I'll end it by

315-436-7775
30
1 this: So the question is should the -- would

2 scaling back the project be a benefit? Yes.
3 A 5-mile buffer zone from the river and lake
4 would absolutely preserve the values of the

5 property values and the quality of the --
6 quality of life of the residences.
7 What if there was no project? Better
8 yet. Ten or twenty years from now if the

9 project is accepted the developers would have
10 made their killing, the towers would still be
11 there, but they would be obsolete by new
12 technology and perhaps waving in the wind.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Paul Mason.
14 MR. MASON: My name is Paul Mason. I've
15 just got a few comments.
16 I have visited a website, Lake Benton,

17 Wisconsin. Southwest Wisconsin. It's very
18 unique to Cape Vincent. It's a tourist
19 section, strictly tourist. And agriculture.
20 They did bird studies. The lady that's in

21 charge out there, they have a center out
22 there, she says the birds are very
23 intelligent, they don't fly into things that
24 they don't -- if they see something they fly

25 around them. They say they're very

315-436-7775
31
1 intelligent, they've only averaged -- they've

2 had these since 1998, and they have 400 of
3 them. Over the years they've been adding.
4 And they average probably one bird per tower

5 since they've had them, a bird kill.
6 Well, I can tell you from experience of
7 walking in the roads that the cars kill a lot
8 more birds than that.

9 And it's had a negative impact on the
10 fishing because they're into fishing, they're
11 on a lake, and very -- the fishing has never
12 been affected. It's increased the -- like the

13 negative -- it's a negative impact on the
14 environment as far as the studies that they
15 have done, they have never found any animals,
16 the cows roam around them, lay around them,

17 because they're agriculture.
18 Noise has never been an issue. They said
19 that they've never had a complaint. They did
20 noise studies. And that's another thing.

21 With noise studies I've asked some of my
22 neighbors that are opposed if my tractors
23 annoy them, because they're very noisy. I
24 have to wear ear protection when I'm out there

25 in the fields. They didn't realize I was out

315-436-7775
32
1 there with my tractors making noises. And I

2 can hear them from the house when my sons are
3 out there. Tractors make a lot of noise. So
4 I would hope that it's taken into

5 consideration because I haven't been able to
6 hear these windmills up in the hills.
7 Somebody said it will change the looks of
8 Cape Vincent. And it certainly will. It --

9 many, many people find these -- they're very
10 good looking, they're not just -- some people
11 find them abusive. That's their choice. Some
12 people find them beautiful. I think everybody

13 has their own opinion on what looks good and
14 what doesn't look good.
15 And tourism, I asked this lady if it
16 affected tourism, and she said yes, it did.

17 It increased their tourism on this lake.
18 People come.
19 And I guess when I said something about
20 change, it did change because she says

21 everybody has had money in the community to
22 fix and repair, and I talked with a person
23 that did visit that area, they said they could
24 not find -- like we have in Cape Vincent

25 buildings that are falling down, barns that

315-436-7775
33
1 are falling down, houses that have been burnt

2 down and still haven't been tore down. They
3 said it has improved the looks of the
4 community.
5 And I will -- land values increased. All
6 these were positive. So thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Tom Brown will be next,
8 but I need to do one errand first.

9 (A brief recess was taken from 9:39 AM to
10 9:40 AM.)
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give us the name of the
12 lake.
13 MR. MASON: Benton Lake. B-E-N-T-O-N.
14 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: T-O-N?
15 MR. MASON: Yes.
16 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: And where is it

17 located?
18 MR. MASON: It's in southwest Minnesota.
19 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: So it's Lake Benton,
20 Minnesota.
21 MR. MASON: It's Minnesota.
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Okay, so we have that.
23 We're going to continue on now. Tom?
24 MR. BROWN: Good morning. Thanks for the

25 opportunity to present some of my thoughts

315-436-7775
34
1 this morning. My name is Tom Brown. We've

2 been residents in this community now for 38
3 years. We raised our children here. And we
4 love Cape Vincent.

5 Our children have enjoyed the lifestyle
6 we've known here, and I'd just like to make
7 sure that we're heading not in the wrong
8 direction with this proposal. I have already

9 submitted some written comments pertaining to
10 what I considered some of the content and
11 processed deficiencies in the draft
12 environmental impact statement, but what I

13 would like to add this morning is some very
14 personal thoughts relative to how much we feel
15 about Cape Vincent.
16 What I would like to say is that I do

17 support wind power. I think wind power is a
18 good thing. Provided it doesn't destroy the
19 values that are at the heart and soul of a
20 community.
21 For Cape Vincent in my view those values
22 are the scenic shorelines that we all so
23 enjoy. I believe the turbine numbers and
24 placements as presently proposed would

25 transpose our scenic shoreline and adjacent

315-436-7775
35
1 open agricultural landscape corridor into a

2 vast industrial complex. This would not be
3 the Cape Vincent that I have grown to know and
4 to love.
5 Waterfronts are limited and treasured
6 resources. Cape Vincent's waterfront has made
7 Cape Vincent the attractive destination that
8 it is. I think we need to remind ourselves of

9 this and be very careful with what we do with
10 it.
11 I believe by reducing the numbers of
12 turbines and placing them further inland where

13 they wouldn't visually impinge on our
14 shoreline, we could have both.
15 If the town of Clayton can do it this
16 way, then I ask this Board why can't we do the

17 same thing.
18 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. We'll leave
19 the stack right here. Next is Brooks Bragdon.
20 MR. BRAGDON: Good morning. Brooks

21 Bragdon. It's B-R-O-O-K-S B-R-A-G-D-O-N.
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Speak a little louder
23 if you can, Brooks, please.
24 MR. BRAGDON: Yes, sir. Brooks Bragdon.

25 I'm in favor of the windmills. I have some

315-436-7775
36
1 concerns that the way this communication has

2 developed in the community there is no zoning
3 law, and as a result the regulations that
4 would apply to it don't really exist.

5 The particular focus of what I have to
6 say here has to do with historic preservation.
7 Cape Vincent has got a root here with French
8 history. After the American Revolutionary War

9 French individuals that helped to finance the
10 American Revolutionary War bought 700,000
11 acres spreading from Cape Vincent to
12 Alexandria Bay to Fort Drum and back.

13 Cape Vincent was particularly the most
14 beautiful aesthetic point on all of that land
15 and was seen as such. In here we have a very
16 rich resource of properties listed on the

17 national register, and I think it's
18 appropriate to take into account the impact of
19 this development here.
20 I think that the windmills will be very

21 large; they'll be 420 feet. My understanding
22 is that this is larger than what exists down
23 in Lowville. And that overall these will form
24 a complex. Right now these are very, very

25 close to the historic district on the studies

315-436-7775
37
1 that are submitted by the wind farm; many of

2 the historic properties and the historic
3 district itself is within something that's
4 called an APE, area of potential effect.

5 And so I'm concerned here about creating
6 a compromise. I want to be really clear, I do
7 not want to kill windmills, I would like to
8 have windmills, but my experience is by having

9 the stamina to talk and discuss carefully
10 about the different interests involved, it's
11 possible to accommodate everything.
12 I'm very, very strongly in favor of

13 windmills, but I'm also very much in favor of
14 the scenic resources and the historic
15 resources in the community. Because of the
16 fact that we have no zoning law, we have

17 basically a vacuum.
18 I'd like to draw, however, attention to
19 the general vectors within the zoning law.
20 They call for protecting scenic views,

21 protecting historically significant lands and
22 buildings, and so you have an effect here
23 where you have no zoning buffer to protect
24 against the existing assets of the community,

25 but you do have a tremendous impingement, a

315-436-7775
38
1 very, very large complex that would be

2 industrial and commercial in nature and that
3 would be right up on top within the terms of
4 the studies submitted to the state to the

5 historic assets.
6 So I'm in favor of setting them back
7 further and having smaller turbines so that
8 you have a co-existence of the different

9 assets here in the community.
10 I believe from the bottom of my heart
11 that we have a treasure here, we have a unique
12 area, we have a tradition of nature and

13 historic buildings here, which does not need
14 to be trashed, does not need to be ruined for
15 the purposes of having this new development.
16 I stand strongly in the area of

17 individual landowners' rights and will fight
18 for that, but also I think it's necessary to
19 preserve what we have here as a unique,
20 beautiful treasure. Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Johanna
22 Hambrose.
23 MS. HAMBROSE: Good morning. My name is
24 Johanna Hambrose, H-A-M-B-R-O-S-E, and I'm a

25 tax-paying resident of Cape Vincent.

315-436-7775
39
1 Decommissioning or removal of the

2 windmills is addressed in only four sentences
3 of the draft DIS, and it requires much more
4 attention and clarity. Section 2.8

5 anticipates a life expectancy of 20 years.
6 We have all seen how technology has
7 advanced in the past 20 years, and the odds
8 are these structures will be obsolete in well

9 under 10. The draft simply states that the
10 lease agreements between energy companies and
11 the landowners, which agreements are
12 confidential and to which the public are not

13 privy, provide that the windmills will be
14 removed at the end of their useful life.
15 Many questions here. Is the removal only
16 to be paid for at the end of their useful

17 life? Is useful life clearly defined
18 anywhere? Who is the arbiter of useful life?
19 Is this a Boy Scout's promise or are there
20 clearly defined mandates setting forth the

21 party responsible for removal, the source of
22 funding for removal, and what constitutes
23 removal.
24 Section 2.8 clearly disavows any

25 obligation for removal of the underground

315-436-7775
40
1 collection system. Over time money disappears

2 or is reallocated. Who is the guarantor?
3 There are other concerns: Closure is
4 forced by a regulatory agency finding

5 thousands of native and migratory birds, bats,
6 and other animals are maimed or killed each
7 year. Windmills become obsolete well in
8 advance of their useful life due to improved

9 technology or alternative energy sources
10 become more favorably sanctioned by the
11 government, and the tax credits are given to
12 residents for employing solar power.

13 There are too many contingencies not to
14 have a clearly documented and enforceable plan
15 for the decommissioning of these monstrous
16 structures at their obsolescence, abandonment,

17 or the end of their useful life. The units
18 must be bonded or money securely placed in
19 escrow. Four sentences is insulting and
20 telling. Companies disappear, declare

21 bankruptcy.
22 We have all witnessed the abandoned Frink
23 property in the years that passed before the
24 government stepped in to assist with

25 remediation. Let's care enough about

315-436-7775
41
1 ourselves to say no, put the windmills

2 somewhere else. There are more appropriate
3 places for a cluster of 140-story behemoths.
4 I am a taxpayer for green energy, but not

5 when the impact to the environment, the health
6 and welfare of the residents, and the best
7 interests of the community as a whole and not
8 a select few outweigh the benefits of the

9 windmills.
10 They're being placed in an area of
11 considerable population, near schools and in a
12 manner disruptive of the natural beauty and

13 integrity of our waterfront and the gateway to
14 the Thousand Islands.
15 Please do not let the greed of a few to
16 close a deal cause us to make a lasting and

17 irreversible decision which is less than fully
18 informed. Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Harold Hambrose.
20 MR. HAMBROSE: I would like my

21 comments -- I'm making comments on the -- I'm
22 sorry, my name is Harold Hambrose -- on the
23 visual resource assessment. And for those of
24 you who haven't read this document, I just

25 want to quote a few things from it.

315-436-7775
42
1 Under the comments about our views, the

2 author of this document characterizes our
3 views as simply those directed at the
4 St. Lawrence River and Lake Ontario. That

5 suggests that all of us shuffle up and down
6 Route 12 facing the river and never look in
7 that direction. I would say they're wrong.
8 Our experience with this village is in

9 360 degrees.
10 They go on to explain that the local
11 residents, over a period of time their
12 sensitivity to these 400-odd foot structures

13 will be diminished as we grow used to them.
14 What does that mean? I'm sorry, I'm supposed
15 to be speaking to you guys. That visitors to
16 our place are typically moving through this

17 area on a road and looking straight ahead.
18 That's ridiculous. And I say that -- later
19 recreational users of this area, they suggest
20 that those with utilitarian beliefs will

21 actually like the wind towers. What the heck
22 does that mean? Is this a religious event?
23 This author has insulted everyone in this
24 room, no matter what side of this debate you

25 are on.

315-436-7775
43
1 My company is hired by governments and

2 the largest organizations in the world to
3 measure human behavior, cognition, and
4 performance. Down to the nanosecond. And I

5 can tell you the statements in this report are
6 crap. This author has underestimated his
7 readership terribly. How can you, our elected
8 officials, our neighbors who created this

9 comprehensive plan, its thoughtfulness, its
10 sensitivity to the value, potential of our
11 beautiful village accept any of this so-called
12 analysis?
13 An architecture critic on seeing plans
14 for a new building in Trafalgar Square in
15 London, which before its construction had the
16 courage to stand up and say that this design,

17 the proposed building, would be like seeing a
18 carbuncle on the face of a good friend.
19 This report couldn't convey that
20 sentiment anymore clearer without saying those

21 exact words. The visual resource assessment
22 is insulting, it's flawed analysis, and it's
23 conjecture. Reading between the lines it
24 sounds like we're about to permanently scar

25 our town, but the author believes that we're

315-436-7775
44
1 too stupid or too ugly to have that fact make

2 a difference to this debate.
3 In England there's a series of plays at
4 Christmastime called pantomimes, and the

5 audience participates. And when the
6 characters don't see the obvious, the audience
7 screams look behind you.
8 This morning I'm sitting in that chair

9 looking out those windows, and I say to the
10 panel after we're gone, turn your chairs
11 around and look behind you. This is
12 beautiful. This is a gift from God. Take

13 care of it. That's your charge. And this
14 report doesn't recognize any of those
15 responsibilities. Thanks.
16 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Sally Boss.

17 MS. BOSS: My name is Sally Boss. May I
18 stand right here, please? B-O-S-S.
19 I would like to add some more information
20 about the flicker effect. It is -- when the

21 sun comes up and the sun sets and it's shining
22 on the towers it can have a flicker. I think
23 we've all done some studies and paid attention
24 that we know how that works.

25 In my area within less than a half a mile

315-436-7775
45
1 of my home we have three people, my neighbors,

2 who have migraine headaches. If anyone knows
3 anything about migraines or knows someone who
4 has them, light is a big item to set them off.

5 One of our neighbors has headaches sometimes
6 as many as 12 to 14 days out of a month. This
7 is something that she's had every medical
8 problem taken -- every medical situation that

9 possibly could be done for her, and she still
10 has them.
11 I beg that you consider setbacks away
12 from homes much more than what you have done

13 at this present time.
14 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you, Sally.
15 Charles Moehs.
16 MR. MOEHS: My name is Charles Moehs, and

17 I'm a resident here in Cape Vincent.
18 My comments relate to the DIS, and I note
19 that it is devoid of medical issues and
20 solutions. Nonetheless, there are certain

21 susceptible populations which have difficulty
22 with wind turbines. People from the ages of
23 57 to 91 particularly have problems with
24 dizziness and ringing in their ears.

25 Young children, and particularly those

315-436-7775
46
1 with learning problems and other psychological

2 issues, experience increased irritability and
3 interference with concentration and learning
4 to do -- due to what is called the wind

5 turbine syndrome. This was presented several
6 years ago to the state legislature. And there
7 are physicians in various areas who are
8 working on that issue.

9 A variety of problems in this
10 constellation of symptoms include sleep
11 problems whereby noise or a sensation of
12 pulsations or pressures make it hard to go to

13 sleep and cause frequent awakening; headaches,
14 particularly those prone to migraines;
15 dizziness; unsteadiness of gait; and nausea;
16 exhaustion; anxiety; anger; irritability; and

17 depression; problems with concentration and
18 learning.
19 I note with a degree of anger that a
20 group of wind towers are with 1800 feet to

21 within a half a mile of the Thousand Island
22 Junior and Senior High School. I feel this is
23 irresponsible, and the wind -- of the wind
24 power company and those people that would

25 allow this.

315-436-7775
47
1 Setbacks generally of a mile and a half

2 is recommended for schools, hospitals, and
3 homes of residents with issues mentioned
4 above, particularly the young children and the

5 elderly. Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Rollin
7 Hanson?
8 MR. HANSON: Rollin Hanson, R-O-L-L-I-N

9 H-A-N-S-O-N.
10 After close examination of the DEIS
11 report at the Cape Vincent Library, I decided
12 its most basic evidence must be wrong. The

13 view shed is planned for five and a half miles
14 in the report. It's incorrect. On one recent
15 drive to Maple Ridge the turbines are visible
16 from 17 miles.
17 I think the cropping of the most of the
18 photographs -- after cropping most of the
19 photos that a clear idea of the effect has not
20 been presented. With the magnitude of the

21 project every structure and every person near
22 them will be affected in some way.
23 To the Town and Village Board: The town
24 of Cape Vincent has no royal palaces, no

25 national cathedrals, Escurials, or Alhambras.

315-436-7775
48
1 Rather, we have approximately 60 historic

2 indigenous structures and sites threatened by
3 the wind turbines. Most of these historic
4 treasures from our past are probably no more

5 than 200 years old. A Spanish business may
6 feel that from their long, royal, glorious,
7 but exploitive past, that they are
8 insignificant.
9 The Gold of Cape Vincent is represented
10 by these structures. They need to be
11 preserved in their localities and with their
12 ambiances intact. Proper attention will

13 enhance our local quality of life.
14 The current plans for a series of
15 windmills as it is will forever impact them
16 negatively. As well it will the quality of

17 our lives forever. If proper setbacks are not
18 created with them in the plan, the treasures
19 will be lost.
20 Ambiance and environment are crucial

21 factors in modern man's choices of places to
22 live; parentheses, location, location,
23 location. Please let this be so in our town.
24 Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Vincent

315-436-7775
49
1 Paragon.
2 MR. PARAGON: P-A-R-A-G-O-N.
3 What if someone were to give you a really
4 wonderful and unexpected gift? This is

5 someone you didn't know; this is a gift you
6 didn't ask for or deserve; this is a gift of a
7 lifetime. A whole world of wonderful things.
8 In fact, that very thing did happen. God

9 created this whole world and gave it to us to
10 do with as we choose. God was serious about
11 these -- about these being gifts for us to use
12 as we want. This freedom to use our gifts is

13 a God-like quality.
14 For just as God was incredibly creative
15 in making these things that the scripture
16 tells us he saw was good, we are also to be

17 creative in what we do with these gifts. Our
18 world continues to change depending on how we
19 use its resources. We can carry on the
20 process of creating or changing our world, and

21 as a community we have a huge impact on our
22 ecosystem; the air and water and its natural
23 resources.
24 We as individuals can choose how we

25 change our community. Excuse me. We as

315-436-7775
50
1 individuals can also choose how we change the

2 world in which we live, our neighborhood or
3 our town. In a real sense we are the creators
4 of the next generation. We decide what God's

5 gifts will look like to them.
6 In our lifetime we are given an
7 opportunity to follow God's creative example.
8 What will we do with these wonderful gifts?

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Tom
10 Jolliff.
11 MR. JOLLIFF: Good morning. My name is
12 Tom Jolliff, J-O-L-L-I-F-F.

13 And among other things, I have personally
14 been involved with environmental impact
15 statements and including a senior author of
16 two of them.
17 I am not going to be able to say
18 everything that I would like to because of
19 time constraint, and I will submit written
20 comments that will be more inclusive.

21 These aren't necessarily in their most
22 important order. Negative wildlife impacts by
23 itself in my opinion is not sufficient cause
24 for rejection of the subject proposal, rather

25 acceptance or rejection should properly be

315-436-7775
51
1 based on judicial balance of societal

2 benefits, wildlife comparative impacts from
3 other causes, such as, for example,
4 automobiles, and wildlife consequences of

5 alternative methods. In this case producing
6 electricity from burning coal. Given current
7 public sentiment and realities of natural wind
8 resource, each wind turbine denied in this

9 process will of necessity be replaced by
10 burning coal.
11 On the matter of property value, verbal
12 and written statements at various times have

13 gone both ways in meetings of this sort with
14 some claiming negative and others no change or
15 enhancement of property values. However, in a
16 Watertown Times coverage of the June 2006

17 hearing in Cape Vincent on this issue, the
18 reporter referenced a government-sponsored
19 U.S. study that found an increase in property
20 value. And by the way, as a side note to

21 that, that reporter is no longer assigned to
22 this issue.
23 For sound effects my son Michael on Cobb
24 Road in Cape Vincent -- Cobb Road, Copenhagen,

25 excuse me, which is pretty much right in the

315-436-7775
52
1 middle of the Maple Ridge Wind Farm, has the

2 nearest two Maple Ridge units at .49 and
3 .51-mile distances measured by GPS. And his
4 family does not hear them inside their house.

5 Outside there sometimes is a nonirritating
6 woosh that seems distinguishable from other
7 wind sounds.
8 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Tom, you're going to

9 have to speed it up a little bit there.
10 MR. JOLLIFF: Okay. Last item. A common
11 thread in various statements opposing the
12 wind -- Cape Vincent wind proposal is an

13 implied supposition that their position of
14 advocating depriving landowners of otherwise
15 honorable income from their property
16 represents a major opinion among

17 nonresident -- nonlandowner residents who
18 would not directly gain from the project.
19 However, this attitude seems to disregard
20 those who while they may also perceive some

21 negative aesthetic effect, considered their
22 own selfish ideals as secondary to broader
23 values such as the rights of owners and the
24 use of their land, revenue for public works,

25 and a national global need to reduce burning

315-436-7775
53
1 fossil fuel, thereby safeguarding the

2 ecological outlook of their grandchildren.
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give us the rest your
4 comments in written form, we're happy to take

5 them, but we'll have -- to make sure everybody
6 has the opportunity to speak. If there is
7 time at the end we will continue going.
8 Jack Nasca from DEC. Jack, are you out

9 of Albany?
10 MR. NASCA: Yes, I am.
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: As a courtesy to you we
12 will give you as much time as you need.

13 MR. NASCA: I think I will be fine with
14 three minutes, thank you.
15 Good morning. I'm Jack Nasca, N-A-S-C-A,
16 and I'm with the Department of Environmental

17 Conservation, the Division of Environmental
18 Permits. And I am based in Albany.
19 And I just want to say this morning thank
20 you for having the hearing, and that DEC is

21 supportive of renewable energy and the
22 development of renewable energy in New York
23 State. There are many benefits to renewable
24 energy sources; however, the siting of these

25 facilities has got to be done in an

315-436-7775
54
1 environmentally sensitive fashion.

2 As noted in the Department's letters
3 dated December 20th, 2006, January 18th,
4 2007, and March 9th, 2007, the agency has

5 substantial concerns regarding the
6 construction and operation of the proposed
7 St. Lawrence wind power project. DEC has
8 particular concerns for the proposed facility

9 as it is located in proximity to a bird
10 conservation area, two wildlife management
11 areas, contains breeding habitat for the
12 federal and state listed endangered Indiana

13 bat, and it is located in a known migratory
14 passage route and wintering area for Bald
15 Eagles, Short-eared Owls, and other raptors.
16 All of that is consistent with our

17 letters that we have submitted. The possible
18 impact to avian and bat species from this
19 project in conjunction with the proposed Cape
20 Vincent wind power project and the proposed

21 Clayton wind project must be considered as
22 part of this EIS review.
23 If this project were to be approved and
24 constructed, the department would, consistent

25 with the other wind projects that have

315-436-7775
55
1 received permits, include a requirement for

2 the preparation and conduct of a post
3 construction mortality study to determine the
4 actual impacts from two avian and bat species

5 from the operation of the wind farm.
6 Based on our staff's initial review of
7 the draft DIS, the Department has strongly
8 recommended that a supplemental draft EIS be

9 prepared. This recommendation is based on the
10 lack of specific information in the
11 January 24th draft EIS on the issues of
12 concern to the agency. And these specific

13 issues were identified in our January -- I'm
14 sorry, in our March 9th, 2007, letter.
15 The Department staff will continue to
16 review the present draft EIS, and we look

17 forward to the preparation of a supplemental
18 draft EIS to provide the additional
19 information that the department needs to
20 complete its review of this proposed wind

21 power project.
22 And if people have any concerns or
23 comments that they would like to make
24 available to the Department, they can send

25 them to either my attention or to Steve

315-436-7775
56
1 Tomasik, who is the project manager for this

2 particular application. Thank you.
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Will you be able to
4 send a copy of that or --

5 MR. NASCA: It's part of an email. I
6 can't leave it with you, but I can send it to
7 you.
8 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Will you email it?

9 MR. NASCA: Sure.
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Could you spell
11 that last fella's name?
12 MR. NASCA: Tomasik is T-O-M-A-S-I-K.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Just one second.
14 Sandy, will you give him my email address?
15 MR. NASCA: Sure. Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Ed

17 Hludzenski? Ed?
18 MR. HLUDZENSKI: Over here.
19 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Yeah.
20 MR. HLUDZENSKI: Ed Hludzenski. It's

21 spelled H-L-U-D-Z-E-N-S-K-I.
22 After reading the report there's some
23 issues, and the people here have already
24 addressed most of the other issues that I

25 wanted to bring up, there's some that I didn't

315-436-7775
57
1 hear addressed. I missed the first few

2 speakers, so if I'm repeating it apologize.
3 One of the things I would like to see
4 more specifically addressed in this study is

5 property devaluation. Is there something in
6 place or will there be something in place so
7 that if I go to sell my house down the road
8 and the windmills do have a negative impact on

9 property, who's going to make up the
10 difference? Okay. I would like to see that
11 more closely addressed.
12 There seems to be some concern about

13 icing on these towers. The ice can be thrown
14 one or 200 meters under certain conditions.
15 Who is responsible or who is liable for any
16 damage by that ice? Is it the property owner

17 who's receiving the money for the windmill on
18 his property or is it the windmill people
19 themselves?
20 You get a hunter going through there, a

21 piece of ice hits him in the hit head; you get
22 a car driving down the road, piece of ice goes
23 through their windshield, who's responsible?
24 Today is a -- we are a society of lawsuits.

25 Somebody gets hurt, somebody's going to get

315-436-7775
58
1 sued. Who's going to pay?

2 One thing I did not see in there was a
3 study on infrasound. Infrasound is noise
4 produced by vibrations. It does have a

5 negative impact on the human body. It
6 constantly impacts the human body; you don't
7 even know it's there. It's akin, for any of
8 you who have been in the nautical services, of

9 being on a ship. You don't notice the engines
10 until they stop. But they're constantly
11 there.
12 If you go to the website -- go to Google,

13 type in infrasound, you can get a full report
14 in there on the impact of infrasound.
15 And lastly, the fourth item I would like
16 to see addressed more closely is the impact on

17 the water table. Many of the people in the
18 rural community here have wells. I don't
19 know, I haven't seen a picture of these
20 towers, I don't know how deep you've got to

21 go, but your bedrock is very close to the
22 surface. If they've got to go down 20 or
23 30 feet to anchor these things, somebody's
24 going to have to blast. I know that there are

25 places where they've blasted before and its

315-436-7775
59
1 upset the water table, people wind up not

2 having water. Who's going to correct the
3 situation? Are they going to put in a whole
4 brand new water system for the people that

5 don't have pure or clean water anymore?
6 Those are the comments that I did not
7 hear addressed during my presence here. Thank
8 you very much.

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Joe
10 Lawrence.
11 MR. JOE LAWRENCE: Hello. My name is Joe
12 Lawrence, and I just wanted to say that this

13 past week I've spent some time going through
14 the DIS. And -- though it's called a draft
15 for a reason because there is stuff that still
16 needs to be addressed. There's clearly stated

17 in there what has been addressed and what they
18 still intend to address. There's no --
19 they're not trying to hide the fact that other
20 studies may still need to be done, they're

21 addressing that fact in the DIS, and I thought
22 that was important.
23 Furthermore, I work in the agricultural
24 field, and I was very impressed with their

25 references to the New York State Ag and

315-436-7775
60
1 Markets guidelines for having the least impact

2 possible on agricultural production. These
3 towers are meant to co-exist with agriculture,
4 and I think with what's outlined in the plan

5 that that will be very possible for that to
6 happen.
7 On a more -- on a more personal note, I'm
8 not a taxpayer in this town, and I know

9 someone said that there's several people
10 moving into this town. They're not people my
11 age. I grew up here, I love this town, but I
12 can't make a living around here. And I think

13 that though it states that there will only be
14 a couple of jobs actually created specific to
15 the wind towers, there will be several more
16 jobs created by the boost to this community.

17 And I -- because I couldn't find work in
18 the area, I just accepted a job in Lowville,
19 and I'm very excited about moving up there,
20 living amongst the wind towers there and

21 living in a community that supports
22 alternative energy, because that's the bottom
23 line.
24 Everyone talks about the negative

25 impacts. The negative impacts of not having

315-436-7775
61
1 alternative energy far outweigh any of the

2 petty stuff that's been talked about of
3 impacts of having towers. And I'll conclude
4 with that.
5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. That is the
6 last name we have on the list. Is there
7 anyone who did not have the opportunity to
8 sign the list who would like to speak? Is

9 there anybody who has not spoken who would
10 like to speak?
11 We're going to be here until -- just a
12 second. We're going to be here until noon

13 because we advertised it until noon, we will
14 be here until noon, all right?
15 What we will do then if people who -- so
16 one more time, anybody here who has not had

17 the opportunity to speak who would like to
18 speak? We will still stick with the
19 three-minute rule. If someone would like to
20 speak again, I guess what I would probably do

21 is just run through the list so we do the same
22 order, it will make it easier when we're
23 trying to compare information.
24 Mr. Wiley, did you want to speak before

25 we start going through everybody else's? No?

315-436-7775
62
1 Yes, sir.
2 MR. HENCHY: May I?
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Did you speak yet?
4 MR. HENCHY: No.

5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Oh, okay. Then give us
6 your name, please.
7 MR. HENCHY: My name is Harold Henchy, I
8 live on Mason Road, and I will be very

9 brief --
10 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Would you spell your
11 last name, please?
12 MR. HENCHY: H-E-N-C-H-Y. I'll be brief

13 because I believe it's all been said.
14 My only concern is to the elected
15 officials in this town. It's incumbent upon
16 you when you were elected, and my concern is

17 quality of life, and in all your deliberations
18 do not overlook quality of life with these
19 wind towers coming -- possibly coming into
20 this area. Thank you very much.

21 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Okay. Any -- yes?
22 Come on up if -- anybody who hasn't spoken yet
23 come up and give us your name, please.
24 MR. JOHN LAWRENCE: I'm John Lawrence,

25 and I'd just like to make a quick comment.

315-436-7775
63
1 I think the members up here in the front

2 have -- all know where the office is, but
3 there's been many comments and issues brought
4 up that I believe would be easily addressed if

5 the folks would stop by the office, downtown
6 Cape Vincent, and do their homework before
7 asking questions. If they truly want answers,
8 they're available down there. And I encourage

9 everybody to go down and stop by just to see.
10 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. And if you
11 don't know where the office is, it's in Jared
12 Wiley's old beauty salon across from the fire

13 hall.
14 Would anyone else like to speak who has
15 not had the opportunity to speak?
16 Carol Simpson, would you like to speak

17 again? Dave Docteur? Don Metzger?
18 MR. METZGER: Mr. Chairman, a question:
19 Do I understand you to say that you will
20 accept verbal comments here in this building

21 today until 12:00?
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: We advertised a hearing
23 from 9 to noon. We will not shut the door
24 until noon.
25 MR. METZGER: So someone who's not in

315-436-7775
64
1 this structure at this time can come in here

2 later this morning --
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Correct.
4 MR. METZGER: -- and present a

5 three-minute presentation until noon?
7 MR. METZGER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Marianna, do you have

9 anything else you would like to add?
10 MS. REINHART: Yes, I have two questions.
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give me one second just
12 so I can go back to my right file here,

13 please.
14 MS. REINHART: Sure.
15 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Okay.
16 MS. REINHART: We had driven through the

17 Maple development also with the wind power,
18 and we noticed that there were maintenance
19 buildings. And we were wondering -- we know
20 they'll be needed here. We were wondering

21 where they would be placed in association with
22 the town and the wind turbines.
23 And also, will the main office of the
24 wind turbine company remain in Cape Vincent

25 where it is now or move to another location

315-436-7775
65
1 during or after the project is completed?

2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Joyce, do you have
3 anything else you would like to say?
4 MS. GORMEL: No, thank you.

5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Tom? I'm sorry, my --
6 I'm sorry.
7 MR. GORMEL: I just want to say that the
8 purpose of the DEIS is to document everything,

9 the mitigations and that. And that someone to
10 stand up and say stop down to the office
11 doesn't mean anything. It has to be in
12 written form.
13 And I wanted to comment further about the
14 lack of clarity of certain sections of the
15 DEIS. I'm speaking specifically in the
16 section titled Executive Summary in the

17 Table 1-1, Pages 1-9 and 1-10. There is a
18 statement that says the proposed turbines
19 would maintain appropriate buffers from
20 property lines, nearby residences, roads, and

21 other nearby visibly sensitive -- visually
22 sensitive areas. The word appropriate is
23 frequently used when describing proposed
24 mitigation. What exactly is appropriate?

25 Another proposed mitigation stated,

315-436-7775
66
1 settlement agreements could be used to

2 purchase landscape screening, trees and
3 shrubs, or exclusionary treatments such as
4 curtains or blinds.
5 My wife is thinking that custom-made
6 curtains would be appropriate for our house.
7 Or is SLW thinking the Family Dollar store up
8 in Clayton?
9 And I think that's the whole thing, is
10 let's get it in black and white and not leave
11 it to us to stop down to the office and ask
12 them. Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Let me rephrase what I
14 think you just told me, because I want to be
15 sure.
16 I think you just rephrased it if in

17 mitigation it turns out that, using your
18 example, that SLW is going to buy wind -- or
19 drapes or whatever you want to call them for
20 homes, what's the quality going to be.

21 MR. GORMEL: That's right.
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Okay. Ann?
23 MS. LEVY: No, thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Cliff?

25 MR. SCHNEIDER: Yeah, I didn't get a

315-436-7775
67
1 chance to comment more on the sound issue.

2 And I know Karen and George, and I don't know
3 if you were there, Rich, too when we went up
4 to Maple Ridge with all those Board members.

5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: No, I was not. But I'm
6 on Maple Ridge on a regular basis.
7 MR. SCHNEIDER: I go through there as
8 well. We stopped under those windmills during

9 the day, and you sit there and say they're
10 quiet, they have a little woosh; it's not a
11 big deal.
12 So why do these people halfway around the

13 world and here in this country as well have
14 problems? Well, the difference is, and I
15 suffer from a little problem called ringing in
16 the ears, or tinnitus.

17 Now, during the day when I'm out here
18 it's not a problem at all because you've got
19 all kinds of noise around you, the ambient
20 noise is kind of high. But at night it's a

21 different story. When you're sitting in a
22 quite bedroom and all of a sudden when there
23 isn't any other noises, it's really loud and
24 it's annoying.
25 I don't know whether anybody in here

315-436-7775
68
1 suffers from that type of thing, but you tend

2 to do little things at night to mask the
3 sound. But the point is the issue isn't
4 during the day, the issue is at night.

5 And the issue in particular is when you
6 have a situation called atmospheric stability
7 where it's very quiet at ground level, but at
8 the hub height those things are still going to

9 be turning and still turning out all the
10 noise.
11 Now, the sound level report doesn't
12 consider any of those things. So the purpose

13 of that tape and that CD is just to give you a
14 sense of an idea. You can't go through those
15 reports and really understand all that
16 gibberish.
17 But that you're going to hear from a wind
18 farm on the Dutch-German border. It was done
19 by a scientist right there from complaints
20 from Dutch citizens. What they do right there

21 is at night at a home about 2600 feet away you
22 hear that noise. And that's what the issue
23 is. It's not during the day when you drive by
24 and it's not a problem, the issue is at night.

25 And that's the type of thing that the

315-436-7775
69
1 sound level report hasn't considered at all.

2 And it also has not considered the quality and
3 character of the noise. If it's just that
4 nice, broad what they call broadband

5 background noise, white noise or whatever, we
6 seem to tolerate that very well. But it's the
7 character of it which is this pulsing sound.
8 And the pulsing sound comes from when that

9 blade goes right by the tower.
10 Now, the thing is the sound level report
11 none of these people addressed those issues,
12 and those are the issues that very well might

13 drive some people in this town nuts and very
14 well might end up having phone calls to you
15 folks saying what's happened, what have you
16 done.
17 So that's the issue, and I would hope
18 that somewhere along the line you can get
19 those people to address that.
20 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: So, Cliff, just to make

21 sure I've got this right, what you're saying
22 is that a nighttime study is exceedingly
23 important.
24 MR. SCHNEIDER: They have to separate

25 nighttime levels from daytime levels. They

315-436-7775
70
1 have to address -- you know, background

2 levels, they assume the background on there,
3 that they got the citation from a publication;
4 they didn't go out there and measure it.

5 If you go and take a look at the Clayton
6 DEIS, they did a much better job. I still
7 have problems with those.
8 So they have a number of things that they

9 have to address. I'll have that in written
10 comments for you.
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: When you're referring
12 to the character of the noise, can you just

13 take another minute and go through that one
14 more time for me?
15 MR. SCHNEIDER: Okay. For those of you
16 if you go down by the beach or something like

17 that, you hear the surf, it's a pleasant
18 sound, it's kind of like a white noise.
19 But if you take a listen -- you listen to
20 maybe a backhoe in reverse, you find that's

21 really annoying. So -- that's really
22 annoying.
23 And so the quality and character of the
24 noise, it isn't that nice, surf-like kind of

25 thing, it's that character, that pulsing that

315-436-7775
71
1 drives you nuts. And that's what drives these

2 people nuts; that's what drove Jane Davis in
3 the UK nuts.
4 And thing is, this report done by Tetra

5 Tech, they don't go into any of that stuff.
6 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Good point. Thank you.
7 Sally Hirschey?
8 MS. HIRSCHEY: No, I'm fine.

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Urban?
10 MR. HIRSCHEY: Yeah, I have some
11 questions. One of the comments on the Maple
12 Ridge people living close to a tower, they

13 use -- the closest examples was .49 miles,
14 which is 25, 2600 feet. I think the offsets
15 in the DEIS allow for 1200 feet between a
16 residence and the towers. That's really,

17 really pushing the envelope.
18 And the other question I had was from
19 Mr. Nasca, I think there was a recent bird
20 study report from the Maple Ridge Farm. Could

21 you enlarge upon that?
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Well, we'll ask him to
23 speak then. We're not -- you need to address
24 your comments to us. He'll be given an

25 opportunity to speak.

315-436-7775
72
1 MR. HIRSCHEY: Okay. But that's -- I

2 think there is a recent report that might
3 impact how we feel about that.
4 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: We're just going to

5 keep this going the same way because it's
6 worked well. Paul Mason?
7 MR. MASON: I'll pass.
8 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Tom?

9 MR. BROWN: Thank you. I guess I would
10 only like to add that thanks for the
11 opportunity -- for this comment opportunity
12 this morning. But I think what's really

13 important, I would implore not only this
14 Board, but all of the officers in our
15 community to carefully consider what's been
16 said here today and I assume will continue to

17 be voiced as this process moves forward,
18 because what we're talking about will likely,
19 if it comes to fruition, change the nature,
20 the culture of this community forever.

21 That's something I think that should
22 weigh heavy on you people especially, and all
23 the town officials that will be required to
24 make the right decisions in the interest of

25 the entire community and all the residents of

315-436-7775
73
1 the community. Thanks again for the

2 opportunity to speak.
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Brooks, did
4 you want to add anything else?

5 MR. BRAGDON: Just one thing, please,
6 Mr. Chairman. The history of the historic
7 preservation is with the Historic Preservation
8 Act of I think 1966. And I have this pamphlet

9 here from the Federal Advisory Commission on
10 Historic Preservation. And what it points out
11 is that it was created to address a certain
12 situation where there were lots of

13 developments in the '50s and '60s, and they
14 came in and did a lot of harm to cultural
15 resources.
16 So it came in to create a certain buffer.

17 Once again, it was created to create a certain
18 sense of compromise, not of absolutes, but of
19 compromise.
20 The situation that I referred to before

21 where in the town of Cape Vincent we just were
22 not able to create a zoning law is somewhat
23 parallel to that. You have now the windmill
24 proposal coming in in a certain vacuum where

25 there really isn't zoning here.

315-436-7775
74
1 Now, I know there's an answer to that,

2 and that is that there is site-by-site review.
3 But that's kind of like something where we
4 have not been able to function on a normal

5 basis, we have had a little bit of sniping,
6 people saying, oh, well, you have a conflict
7 here, you have a conflict here so you can't
8 vote, you can't comment, you can't vote, you

9 can't comment.
10 I really support the Board. I have a lot
11 of faith in the goodness, the depth, the
12 willingness to sacrifice, the sense of care on

13 people of the Board, but we've been deprived
14 of the wisdom to put into effect the types of
15 setbacks that individuals have called for, and
16 we have a certain vacuum now.

17 These turbines have been labeled
18 utilities. But if you take a look at them in
19 a narrow sense, they are very different from
20 what we consider utilities to be in the past.

21 They have an overall commercial/industrial
22 effect. They are an army of very, very large
23 structures. And they're going to have such a
24 radical presence, a dominant presence, a big

25 presence, a sound presence, a light presence,

315-436-7775
75
1 a light presence at night, that they are going

2 to change the very relationship that we have
3 to the land, the sense of unique position here
4 in time and space, the very sense of the

5 historic structures. And they're going to
6 have a big, big change on that.
7 So I'm asking, begging you to have a
8 certain sense of a common good, a certain

9 sense of compromise, and a certain sense of
10 fully taking into effect the one-time impact
11 that this is going to have on the very nature
12 of the community here. And to not

13 underestimate what it is.
14 I think this is a very, very lovely
15 community, and a very, very unique point in,
16 you know, the United States and Canada. And I

17 think it shouldn't be underestimated.
18 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Johanna?
19 MS. HAMBROSE: I think I've said enough.
20 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Okay. Carol?

21 MS. SIMPSON: No, thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Sally?
23 MS. BOSS: No, thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Charles?

25 MR. MOEHS: Yes.

315-436-7775
76
1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give me one second to

2 get to the page.
3 MR. MOEHS: Well, I have an additional
4 comment related to the setbacks.

5 I notice that the setback from a property
6 line is 75 feet. The turbines themselves are
7 150 feet in radius. Which means that
8 theoretically the turbine blade will be

9 crossing over another --
10 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Let me stop you. Your
11 information of 75 feet is not correct.
12 MR. MOEHS: It's not correct.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: No. And I will come
14 back and address -- I have a few comments I'll
15 make at the end. So that is not a correct
16 statement, I'll just stop you right now.

17 MR. MOEHS: All right. I have another
18 comment, and that is about the blinds, the
19 curtains that could be purchased to mitigate
20 certain issues. And I find that that's

21 offensive.
22 I think if somebody is in their home they
23 should be able to use their home and be able
24 to look out their windows and see what's going

25 on. And for somebody to say that they're

315-436-7775
77
1 going to put a blind up so that you aren't

2 going to get a flicker, that that's not
3 appropriate.
4 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: I'll go through the

5 list before I make a couple of corrections.
6 Rollin Hanson?
7 MR. HANSON: No, I think Mr. Bragdon has
8 said it all for me.

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Vincent Paragon?
10 MR. PARAGON: Well, it's pretty much been
11 said for the last several months. I think one
12 thing is that I would like to see not happen,

13 and that is a divided community.
14 This community has been a very close-knit
15 community since its inception. And now I see
16 division. And for the sake of progress, if

17 you will, turbines, we end up with a divided
18 community.
19 I have to say what price glory, because
20 it would be a sad, sad thing if it comes down

21 to a divided community.
22 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Tom Jolliff?
23 MR. JOLLIFF: Yeah, a couple items. My
24 name is Tom Jolliff, J-O-L-L-I-F-F.

25 One is the suggestion that wind turbines

315-436-7775
78
1 would violate Cape Vincent's natural virtue is

2 untrue because that virtue basically
3 disappeared the day that nonnative people
4 first set foot and becomes further prostituted

5 with each additional man-made thing or
6 activity.
7 In addition, it's hypocritical because
8 the suggestion essentially proposes that

9 everything the suggester has or does is okay
10 and defendable, but wind turbines are not.
11 If one were to give me the choice between
12 more noisy people and white machines just

13 sitting there doing their job, maybe you
14 wouldn't like my answer.
15 Another item issue is don't put the
16 things close to the river and lakeshore, put

17 them back further inland or beyond some point
18 that is just not feasible. If anybody were to
19 go to Acciona's office downtown and look at
20 the wind resource maps, it becomes very clear

21 that the present proposal for turbine sites is
22 totally consistent with available, viable wind
23 resources, and it is just not feasible to put
24 them someplace where you don't have that. And

25 if you look at that map, you'll see that there

315-436-7775
79
1 are very limited areas in New York State that

2 have those wind resources.
3 And as I said before, each one of these
4 that are denied, it won't be moved inland, it

5 will just be replaced by coal-fired plants.
6 And as we speak there's a new surge of
7 coal-fired plants on the planning board for
8 construction across the nation right now.

9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Is Jack still here and
10 would he like to speak again?
11 MR. NASCA: No, I don't need to make a
12 statement, but I can respond to the one

13 question the gentleman raised.
14 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Sure.
15 MR. NASCA: There is a mortality study
16 which has just been completed for the first

17 year of operation at the Maple Ridge Wind
18 Farm. And that study is currently undergoing
19 internal review by experts from our agency and
20 the Fish and Wildlife Service and other

21 members of what they call a technical advisory
22 committee.
23 And I expect that probably within the
24 next four to six weeks, but don't hold me to

25 that, that information should be -- that

315-436-7775
80
1 report should be completed and that

2 information should be made public.
3 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: How does the Planning
4 Board get access to that?

5 MR. NASCA: When that document is
6 available I would expect that it will be
7 placed on the website for the Maple Ridge
8 facility, but again, I can't guarantee that.

9 If -- when it becomes available we
10 will -- if anybody wants a copy, we'll either
11 make copies for you or direct you to where you
12 can get it.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Well, we would like to
14 be -- because we don't have time to surf the
15 website and find when it shows up.
16 MR. NASCA: Okay. I would suggest then

17 you talk to the -- your -- the developer here
18 and ask that they provide -- get a copy from
19 Maple Ridge when it's available. That's
20 probably the quickest way you'll get it.

21 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Ed, would you like to
22 say anything else?
23 MR. HLUDZENSKI: I've got a couple more
24 points I could throw out there; you don't have

25 enough to do.

315-436-7775
81
1 The people who keep talking about the

2 benefits of green energy, nobody's ever
3 brought up the point at any of these meetings
4 that for every wind-powered turbine you have

5 up there, you've got a power plant spinning in
6 the background. Because if you shut down the
7 turbine, you can't let the lights go out.
8 You're idling a power plant someplace to

9 provide that emergency power when the turbine
10 is shut down for maintenance, not enough wind,
11 or too much wind.
12 There's a study done in Spain -- I'm

13 going to give this to the Board -- that talks
14 about the fact that you have to have your
15 coal-fired plants running.
16 Secondly, they talk about California and

17 Denmark, which have the longest experience in
18 the field of wind power. They're no longer
19 banking on wind power for the future. Maybe
20 you should read the new California energy

21 plan.
22 As far as property devaluation, there's a
23 study out of England, talks about the risk of
24 leukemia is 70% higher for children close to

25 power lines, which comes up with a second

315-436-7775
82
1 study that cancer fears have dropped the

2 property values in the area of the power
3 lines.
4 And I will give these -- and remember,

5 perception is reality. If you think you're
6 going -- your kids are going to get cancer,
7 what are you going to do? You're going to
8 move. You're going to sell your house, and

9 you're going to sell it cheap. Thanks.
10 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Joe Lawrence, do you
11 have anything else to say?
12 MR. JOE LAWRENCE: Yeah. I would just

13 like to say a little bit more about the
14 positive impacts outlined in the study, like
15 the reduction of carbon dioxide and several
16 other gases.
17 If we say alternative -- or wind powers
18 are going to be our answer to our energy
19 crisis, no one here is going to try to say
20 that. They're part of an answer. There's

21 several things being worked on besides wind
22 power that -- as alternative energy.
23 But we're not talking about necessarily
24 replacing every coal-fired plant, we're

25 talking about not building more because our

315-436-7775
83
1 population continues to grow and our use of

2 energy continues to grow.
3 So we're just talking about offsetting
4 this growth, this continued demand for more

5 energy as we live more and more luxurious
6 lifestyles. And it's -- it's silly not to
7 think of it that way.
8 I'm 24 years old, and I have a lot of

9 life ahead of me, and alternative energy and
10 renewable energy forms are the only thing that
11 are going to allow this country to continue.
12 And it's going to be dozens of different

13 alternative energy points, not just wind
14 powers everywhere, it's not just willow
15 biomass everywhere, it's going to be all of
16 these together that help us overcome the

17 crisis that we're in now.
18 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Harold, do you have
19 anything else you want to say?
20 John Lawrence, do you have anything else

21 you want to say?
22 All right. I would like to address the
23 public comments only --
24 MR. HOWARD: Can I make a comment first?

25 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Sure. Who are you?

315-436-7775
84
1 MR. HOWARD: George Howard.

2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Just give me one second
3 to get my notes here.
4 MR. HOWARD: Sure. It would be a new

5 sheet.
6 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Spell your last name.
7 MR. HOWARD: H-O-W-A-R-D. I work for a
8 large aerospace company. In fact, I'm chief

9 engineer for a large aerospace company. And I
10 deal with the likes of Bowing and Airbus, on
11 the phone every day with them. And I think it
12 really is all about compromise.

13 I'm a proponent of wind energy, alternate
14 energy. Wind energy isn't on the top of that
15 list, but I am a proponent of alternate
16 energy. But it has to be done in favor of the

17 whole community and the whole landscape.
18 But I think the key to all this is really
19 compromise. And I hope the Board is looking
20 at another plan of compromise in that it's not

21 94 towers or nothing.
22 And certainly on our side -- I say our
23 side. I hope we're doing the same thing and
24 not saying it's no wind towers or all wind

25 towers, you know, you can't have anything.

315-436-7775
85
1 It's got to be compromise. That's the only

2 way that this is going to get resolved to the
3 likings of everybody and to the benefit of
4 everybody. It's got to be a compromise.

5 And I hope the Board is looking at a
6 compromise solution because we can beat each
7 other up all day long and nobody is really
8 going to win from it. But I think both sides,

9 if they were to give somewhat, I think a
10 compromise solution could be -- you know, we
11 could reach that very quickly and put a lot of
12 this to bed. Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Is there anybody else?
14 Because I don't want to necessarily have you
15 all stay here waiting until noon for somebody
16 else to show up.

17 Let me give you a little background.
18 Several years ago, probably three or four now,
19 we tried to work out a solution, were wind
20 powers going to come to Cape Vincent, was

21 there going to be zoning in place, was there
22 not going to be zoning that place specific for
23 them. That process failed. Didn't work out
24 for a number of reasons.

25 Then the Planning Board tried to adopt

315-436-7775
86
1 what was then the consensus for the law as a

2 administrative guideline to file. We were
3 threatened with a lawsuit if we did it, so we
4 had to drop that.

5 So what the Planning Board has to work
6 with is the current planning document. Our
7 only leverage is that we can make life
8 miserable for the wind turbine companies and

9 work very slow.
10 There was a ruling that says they're a
11 utility; therefore, we have to work within
12 that concept of the Planning Board Law.

13 However, I'm going to say a year ago, but it
14 might have been nine months ago, please don't
15 quote me, there was -- one of the meetings we
16 had it was raised in the audience how close

17 are you going to let these wind turbines come
18 to my property if I'm not in the project?
19 Which we had not looked at as Planning Board.
20 We had not looked at exactly how we're siting

21 these towers at this point in time.
22 What was mentioned then, and that was
23 before they were trying to do the law, was a
24 thousand feet from a nonparticipating property

25 line. Not 75 feet. All right?

315-436-7775
87
1 The Planning Board would not allow

2 somebody to put a tower 75 feet from a
3 nonparticipating property line. Isn't going
4 to happen. All right? If the wind turbine

5 company won't move it, their project will take
6 20 years.
7 We're going to try to stay -- we can't
8 follow them as administrative guidelines

9 because we'll get sued. We're going to try to
10 follow the concept as best we can of the law
11 that the town proposed. They hashed it out,
12 it looked like they thought it was a pretty

13 good deal. We'll try to follow that.
14 All we are doing in this process, this
15 hearing, and the next two hearings, is looking
16 at the environmental impacts, because you know

17 what at the end of the day, if the
18 environmental impacts say the towers can't
19 come here, they can't come here. But we need
20 to find out. It needs to be done and over

21 with. If they can't come here, let's know
22 now, let's not fight this thing for the next
23 20 years. Do the studies, find out whether or
24 not they would even be allowed in the area

25 under the environmental review process. All

315-436-7775
88
1 right?
2 Now, they're either going to be allowed
3 or they're not going to be allowed or they're
4 going to be compromised, which is an excellent

5 term. If we get to that point and they are
6 either allowed or compromised, then we have to
7 go through a site plan public hearing.
8 And there are a number of great comments

9 that came out of this meeting of things that
10 we need to look for when we get to the point,
11 if we get to the point, where turbines come
12 in. Who's going to be pay to take them down,

13 who's going to pay to do the roads, and
14 there's a number of items. Those would all be
15 part of the site plan review process,
16 including who's going to do the PILOT

17 agreement or whatever.
18 We are nowhere near that phase where
19 we're going to answer those questions because
20 in my attitude until we get done with the

21 environmental review process and find out
22 whether wind turbines are going to be allowed
23 or not be allowed, that's kind of spinning
24 your wheels on something that may never

25 happen. Once you get through that process,

315-436-7775
89
1 then the site plan process takes over and

2 we'll address those items.
3 Is anybody here who has not spoken wishes
4 to speak? Yes.
5 MS. DRABICKI: I just actually have a
6 question. It's been indicated that -- I'm
7 sorry, Judy Drabicki, D-R-A-B-I-C-K-I.
8 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give me one second,

9 please. Okay.
10 MS. DRABICKI: The DEIS indicates that
11 there's a bird and bat study or plan in the
12 DEIS; therefore, there obviously has to be a

13 bird and bat study, not just a plan. That
14 hasn't been submitted yet.
16 MS. DRABICKI: The wetland delineation

17 hasn't been done, historical phase 1, phase 1A
18 have not been done, among other studies that
19 the developer has acknowledged.
20 Right now the time frame for commenting

21 closes on June 15th. Has the Board
22 considered or would you offer comment on what
23 you anticipate to provide for comment period
24 after we finally are able to see those

25 studies?

315-436-7775
90
1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Sure. Let me address

2 that. When we -- we're stopping comment on
3 June 15th so we can now look at everything,
4 because there's some excellent points in here

5 today, a lot of these points we have heard
6 before, there are a couple new ones, you know,
7 I'll be right up front, nighttime study of
8 sound. You know? I thought a sound was the

9 same 24 hours a day. What did I know. All
10 right?
11 So there's some things we're going to go
12 back and think about, and we may tell the

13 developer you now need to do those studies. I
14 have picked up probably three going through
15 this that I think are significant enough that
16 I need to go back and say what are you doing.

17 After June 15th we will go through the
18 data and we will make a determination
19 sometime, maybe early July, what other studies
20 have to be done, all right? We're going to do

21 it at one of our regular public meetings. We
22 will call them in, we'll say we think you need
23 to do A, B, C, D, or E.
24 Then when they get these other data done,

25 the other -- as the studies get done, they are

315-436-7775
91
1 going to post the information, they're going

2 to do supplemental reports that they're
3 placing in the same place as they handed out
4 the original document, the library, the town

5 clerk, et cetera. They also are -- on their
6 internet site have a table of contents. When
7 they add a new item they are going to -- you
8 know, it will be dated June 16th, they added

9 the bird study, I'm making that up now, all
10 right?
11 Once those are on, once we feel there is
12 enough information to reconvene the public

13 hearing, we will reconvene this public
14 hearing, do additional comments with an
15 additional period of written comment. Okay?
16 Now, humor me and let's assume that at

17 that point we now have enough information, we
18 think, to make a determination on the
19 environmental impacts, not that we're ready to
20 vote on it, but we have enough we think we got

21 a handle. Maybe at that point in time they
22 are going to be ready, they've submitted
23 supplemental documents, right, we're all
24 buried in paperwork, and they're going to

25 submit their final EIS.

315-436-7775
92
1 When they submit the final EIS, all

2 right, then at that point in time we will do
3 another public hearing. But we're not going
4 to let them submit their final EIS to us until

5 they have completed all the studies required,
6 period. So I can't tell you when this public
7 hearing would be.
8 Does that answer your question?

9 MS. DRABICKI: What the Planning Board is
10 doing is one thing, but the opportunity for
11 public comment, and then as I'm sure you know,
12 the developer has to respond to the public

13 comments, that's the time frame that I'm
14 really asking about before you get to the
15 FEIS.
16 What I'm hearing you say is that whenever

17 those studies come in, there will be a minimum
18 period of time for a public hearing as well as
19 public comment. So it could be three years
20 from now. So that's what I'm --

21 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: I can't tell you --
22 first of all, there is no time frame locked in
23 stone. No matter what you've read, where
24 you've read it, or who you've heard it from.

25 The process is they have studies to do.

315-436-7775
93
1 Now, I am not a environmentalist, okay?

2 I don't know how long it's going to take them
3 to do wetland delineation. They'll either get
4 it done this summer or they won't. If they

5 get it done this summer, that document will be
6 out and be available.
7 When they get their bird studies done,
8 one of the things I want to look at is the one

9 from Maple Ridge, okay? Even though they're
10 different areas, we want to look at them. All
11 right? Maybe we order another year, maybe
12 two. I don't know, I can't comment on how

13 long they're going to do the studies.
14 When the studies are done and there are
15 enough of them done to make it worthwhile to
16 do another public hearing, we will do a public

17 hearing, and there will be a comment period,
18 all right? And people will -- one of the
19 things that we have been -- the Planning Board
20 has been criticized about is not getting the

21 information out, then we were criticized for
22 getting it out.
23 What we're saying is we want the public
24 to comment, we want you to look at it. You

25 are all an expert in something, and because at

315-436-7775
94
1 the end of the day the answer may not be

2 there's going to be 96 sites, because I don't
3 think anybody believes there will be 96 sites,
4 the answer is is this project allowable under

5 SEQR, and if it is how many can be put in, you
6 know, what do you work out here, all right?
7 And I guarantee at the end of the day there
8 will be some people unhappy on both sides.

9 Our job is to do the site -- after the
10 SEQR is done, if the SEQR is successful for
11 the wind turbine company, our job is then to
12 do a site plan and do the best job that we can

13 with the cards that we were dealt.
14 So have I answered your questions?
15 MS. DRABICKI: Yes. Except I would point
16 out that the DEIS does say they want to start

17 construction in spring of 2007 -- or 2008. So
18 there is a date.
19 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: You know what? The
20 only way that that is ever going to happen is

21 if the information is done, they have a site
22 plan done, we've gone through all these
23 hearings, and the Planning Board has stamped
24 an official site plan document, including some

25 sort of a performance guarantee, construction

315-436-7775
95
1 project follow-up, et cetera. All right?

2 One of the issues, and -- that I will --
3 that I've already raised is that in the -- if
4 you get to the construction phase, that you

5 have to be concerned about erosion, silt
6 runoff, right, damage to the streams, the
7 waters, the fisheries. I know that in other
8 areas of the state I see a lot of construction

9 sites. Sometimes it's done well and sometimes
10 it's done poorly. What we're requiring is
11 that in the performance contract that we set
12 up as part of the site plan that we have our

13 own independent supervisor making sure that it
14 is done correctly. All right?
15 So their date, they can put on whatever
16 date they want. The process right now is

17 until we accept their studies as final,
18 complete, and their final environmental impact
19 statement, the time frame runs ever how long
20 it takes; one year, two years, five years, or

21 less. I don't know.
22 MS. DRABICKI: Are you including the
23 involved agencies as well, like Lyme and DEC,
24 in that whole time frame?

25 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Here is the deal:

315-436-7775
96
1 Yeah, anybody would who wants to comment can

2 comment.
3 MS. DRABICKI: No, I mean the time frames
4 of what they need to do their comments, DEC

5 and Lyme.
6 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: They have until
7 June 15th. If that's not enough time, I
8 don't know what to do. The only -- Lyme is

9 only impacted in this one. This is not the BP
10 project; this has nothing to do with BP.
11 MS. DRABICKI: They have a transmission
12 line.
13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: They have a
14 transmission line, all right? Which they will
15 have to go to Lyme and get their own permit to
16 put it up. Whenever they're ready to even

17 apply for that.
18 As part of the original letter that we
19 sent out to Lyme and everyone else, the 30-day
20 notice was in there per the regulation, and

21 they signed off on that. They just didn't
22 respond back. So technically the public
23 hearing does cover the impact of the
24 transmission line.
25 You know, we're already into the middle

315-436-7775
97
1 of this. Then Lyme all of a sudden, you know,

2 got waylaid in another project, and they're
3 saying wait a minute, this is way beyond our
4 control.
5 There is no towers here in the Lyme
6 project. All there is is a transmission line
7 or not a transmission line, depending on what
8 goes on. All right? I mean, the transmission

9 line will be covered through this SEQR
10 process. Anybody who wants to comment can
11 comment. The Public Service Commission has
12 already commented; I've already talked to

13 them.
14 And I'll be honest with you, the
15 environmental impact on that depends on how
16 long the tower is going to be -- how long the

17 transmission line is going to be. Because
18 there's a different set of laws relating to
19 that.
20 So yes, this process handles the

21 transmission line. It was part of all the
22 information that was sent out originally.
23 Lyme didn't respond, but they got the letters,
24 we have proof they got the letters. We don't

25 want to get into an argument with the town of

315-436-7775
98
1 Lyme, they apparently had some confusion over

2 the project or somebody just filed it and
3 didn't bother to tell somebody. I don't know,
4 I can't comment on them. This has nothing to

5 do with the BP project. Right now BP and Lyme
6 are working that out or not working it out.
7 When they work it out or don't work it out
8 they'll let us know, and then we'll figure out

9 what Cape Vincent is going to do or not do.
10 Any other questions? Judy, do you have
11 any other? Yes.
12 MR. METZGER: Mr. Chairman, the Public

13 Service Commission report that you say you've
14 seen.
15 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: No, I talked to the guy
16 on the phone and asked him some questions.

17 MR. METZGER: So there's no report that's
18 available to the public.
19 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: No. Basically it has
20 to do with at what point do you no longer do a

21 SEQR process and at what point is there
22 another process involved in transmission line
23 construction. Right now this still fits under
24 the SEQR process. It's a clarification of an

25 issue. If it crosses -- if it becomes more

315-436-7775
99
1 than 10 miles, it's not part of the SEQR

2 process; it's got a different thing it has to
3 go through.
4 Wait a minute. Who was -- Paul?

5 MR. MASON: Paul Mason. You approve a
6 site plan only after the Ag and Markets and
7 the Conservation and all your other agencies
8 approve. You're the final approval after all

9 of those others say yes or no, it can be here
10 or it can't be here.
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Paul, if you come in
12 for a trailer park today, we will -- and let's

13 assume that we're going to approve because it
14 fits in with everything else. We're not
15 giving you final approval until the Health
16 Department signs off, Niagara Mohawk signs

17 off, the DEC signs off. We don't give -- we
18 would say to you we'll give you temporary
19 approval, but you've got to get Public Health,
20 DEC, State Highway, whoever, to sign off.

21 There is no guarantees. And we have said
22 this from day one, there is no guarantee
23 anybody gets a turbine. I want to make that
24 clear. You have to go through the process.

25 But they have the legal right to go through

315-436-7775
100
1 the process, and that's what we want to have

2 happen. We want to get through the
3 environmental review process to find out are
4 they even allowed under the environmental

5 review process. That's what we're doing here
6 today and we'll be doing at least the next two
7 meeting, if not more.
8 Other questions? Yes.

9 MR. GORMEL: Speaking of these -- this
10 transmission line, you're speaking like it's a
11 done deal, you're just -- and --
12 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: The transmission line

13 under the Lyme zoning apparently is an
14 allowable use.
15 MR. GORMEL: It is. But how is BP and
16 how are these all --

17 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: BP is out of it right
18 now. There is no BP involved in this at this
19 point in time.
20 MR. GORMEL: So when I spoke of the

21 cumulative impact of different projects,
22 you're ignoring Clayton and you're ignoring
23 BP?
24 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: First of all, the

25 cumulative impact -- we aren't -- all we're

315-436-7775
101
1 doing now is in data collection. We aren't

2 making any decisions here.
3 MR. GORMEL: No, SLW should be making
4 some comments in their DEIS.

5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Our purpose is to take
6 the DEIS, expose it to everybody who wants to
7 look at it, find out are there any additional
8 studies that need to be done, and then go back

9 and say to the developer these are the studies
10 we want done. We are not prepared today or
11 next week or the week after to go to them and
12 say what studies are going to be done.

13 If somebody comes in on June 14th and
14 has a -- I thought Cliff's argument on night
15 noise was excellent, personally. So if
16 somebody came in on the 14th with that

17 argument and we had not heard it before, we
18 would probably say, whoa, stop the presses,
19 we're going to require some kind of study on
20 this.
21 We're not locking ourselves into saying
22 this is all over prior to June 15th. After
23 June 15th we are going to go through
24 everything.
25 I would like to point out in the issue of

315-436-7775
102
1 compromise that the Planning Board is a

2 part-time activity in the town of Cape
3 Vincent. All right?
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can retire,

5 Rich.
6 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Yeah. Doing so -- and
7 by the way, I am employed, and I do not make
8 my living in Cape Vincent; I'm on the road

9 throughout most of the state.
10 That being said, is that there seems to
11 have been some confusion over how quick we can
12 get letters out in a book at the town clerk so

13 people can come in and look at them, a letter
14 that someone else sent. Our problem is that
15 we don't have anybody to do that. I would ask
16 you to be kind and courteous to the town clerk

17 if you're looking for information.
18 And in the spirit of compromise, let's
19 all be nice. We're not trying to hide
20 anything, but at the best once a week I will

21 try to go up there, date stamp the letters,
22 and put them in the file. However, I am going
23 to take some vacation, so it may only be every
24 two weeks.
25 I would ask you as courteous citizens to

315-436-7775
103
1 not give the town clerk a hard time if your

2 letter is not in there because it's probably
3 down in my bin. And if I'm lucky I'll get
4 back in town one night during the week to open

5 it and make copies for the Board, make copies
6 for the town clerk, make copies for our clerk,
7 and disseminate them. That's the best that we
8 can do.
9 Am I spending part time on your
10 information? No, I am not. We have volumes
11 of stuff at home, my computer and copier and
12 my assistant, who gets paid nothing, are

13 working full time supplying me with data and
14 the rest of the Board. We're doing -- we will
15 make sure the studies are done correctly, we
16 have a town attorney, we have an engineering

17 firm; we're relying on them for the expertise.
18 We're coming into the summertime,
19 everyone should be happy. Let's try to be
20 polite. As someone else pointed out, it's --

21 we don't want -- whichever way these things
22 go, we want to end up with a community where
23 people still talk to one another. We're going
24 to give you multiple opportunities to review

25 additional data and make comments. We're not

315-436-7775
104
1 going into this blind or with any kind of

2 preconceived notions. I don't know what the
3 end result will be. There is probably a more
4 than reasonable chance that there could be

5 some environmental impacts that cannot be
6 mitigated.
7 If you were asking me to bet on this, I
8 wouldn't give you Vegas odds. All right? I

9 don't know because I don't know what's going
10 to be found. You don't know until the stuff
11 is done.
12 Then when the studies are done, I'll

13 guarantee you we'll be having another public
14 hearing, and then if you want to stand up and
15 say that these bird studies are not good,
16 you'll have to give us reasons why they're not

17 good. And if we believe you more than we
18 believe them or whatever we work out, we'll
19 make them keep doing them. There's no
20 drop-dead date. And if I can push it out far

21 enough, I can get, like, retired from the
22 Board.
23 Other questions? Yes.
24 MS. FALCON: My name is Mary Falcon.

25 I've not spoken before.

315-436-7775
105
1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give us one second.

2 MS. FALCON: It's Falcon, F-A-L-C-O-N.
3 Personally, I haven't come to grips with
4 the thought of War of the World structures out

5 here in the field when you're driving, things
6 like that, I can't personally -- I can't
7 envision it out here yet.
8 But I've been reading a lot about water

9 runoff and the dangers it has to the
10 environment and things like that.
11 I was encouraged that you mentioned,
12 Rich, that, you know, that will be part of

13 what's looked at, but apparently pet ways and
14 everything like that is dangerous. And I --
15 the reason I'm thinking about this is someone
16 was burning debris out on the river just

17 today. I mean, burning debris. I don't know
18 if that's detrimental to the river or not, but
19 I'm more cognizant of the issues regarding the
20 river now.
21 And I just want to make sure that, you
22 know, farms close to the river will be -- if
23 they get the turbines they'll be part of this.
24 I want to make sure that water runoff and any

25 kind of issues, you know, if something happens

315-436-7775
106
1 that there are contingency plans for it.

2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Good point. Which is
3 the reason we're not cutting this thing off
4 until June 15th. There is always good

5 comments out there.
6 Anyone else like to comment?
7 MR. DOCTEUR: I would like to just ask
8 the Board --
9 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Hang on one second,
10 Dave, I need to get to the right spot in my
11 notes here. Okay.
12 MR. DOCTEUR: I would just like to invite

13 the Board to go with me up to Maple Ridge Farm
14 and talk to the people that can talk up there.
15 Many of them can't because they've signed
16 contracts. But the ones that can that are

17 really impacted, come and look at. And I'll
18 take you up most any time, but really I think
19 it would be good or for anybody else here.
20 Because then we can talk about what's in the

21 book and what we think, but you can see it
22 right there. And live it. See the people
23 that actually live with it.
24 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Yes, sir?

25 MR. METZGER: Mr. Chairman, permission to

315-436-7775
107
1 speak again.
2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Yes, go for it. We're
3 here until noon.
4 MR. METZGER: Thank you. Don Metzger,

5 owner of a business in Cape Vincent for the
6 last 30 years.
7 The FAA -- if the towers go up, if they
8 do, whether it's 96 or two or whatever, if

9 they go up, they're going to be required by
10 the FAA to have the flashing red lights that
11 flash every five seconds on -- at least on a
12 minimum of half of the towers. So let's pick

13 80 towers as the -- and let's assume 80 towers
14 go up. If they go up, you have to have a
15 minimum of 40 red lights.
16 I want the Board to be aware of that

17 fact, that the nighttime will be affected as
18 well. You're talking about daytime visibility
19 and that the nighttime will also be affected
20 by the lights that have to shine by federal --

21 FAA regulation in unison to delineate the farm
22 from the air. So if you feel that the lights,
23 40 for 50 or 60 lights flashing in unison
24 every night, all night long is a good thing,

25 fine. If you feel that you would not like to

315-436-7775
108
1 see those lights, you have to take that into

2 consideration as well.
3 I appreciate the Board's consideration in
4 that matter.
5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: And if you've not
6 driven through the project in Maple Ridge at
7 night, I have multiple times, snow, no snow,
8 whatever, you need to do that. It is

9 different. You need to look at that. If you
10 want to be an informed citizen, that's one of
11 the things that you should look at.
12 Anyone else with comments? Yeah, we'll

13 go with Tom first.
14 MR. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, I was just
15 going to remark to you that I take
16 encouragement this morning as I see the raptor

17 symbol on your shirt that we will have
18 adequate bird studies.
19 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: I have no conflict of
20 interest on this project; I have no bias. Let

21 the record show -- no.
22 Yes, Urban.
23 MR. HIRSCHEY: Urban Hirschey again. By
24 the way, I commute to Lowville and go up

25 Number -- is it Number Four Road or Number

315-436-7775
109
1 Three Road to Copenhagen? Those turbines are

2 very impressive, particularly at night when
3 they all fire off at once. It's -- yeah.
4 It's worth a trip.

5 I do have a question about Paragraph 2-3,
6 which is the Public Needs and Benefits. And
7 in which it says that the proposed project
8 will result in estimated annual reductions of

9 approximately 236 tons of nitrogen oxides,
10 669 tons of sulfur dioxide, and substantial
11 quantities of other pollutants. That's pretty
12 impressive.
13 My question is it says an annual
14 reduction, but at what percent of efficiency
15 or capacity of the turbines is that based
16 upon? Because as I understand, wind turbines

17 on average produce about 10% of their
18 capacity. And you can substantiate that by
19 going to the NYSERDA website, and there is an
20 article published by General Electric which

21 states that the average annual production is
22 about 10% efficiency. And I also understand
23 that Maple Ridge is about 12.5% efficiency.
24 So I don't know if these numbers are

25 100%, you know, of capacity or what. And I

315-436-7775
110
1 think we should find out.

2 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Okay. Good question.
3 That's what we're here for, you know, people
4 read the things, they -- everybody picks out

5 something different.
6 What I would like to see people do is
7 examine the information, ask their questions
8 over the next whatever how long it takes,

9 rather than down the road say, well, I wish I
10 would have known, or you didn't tell me.
11 Anyone else with questions?
12 We're going to take like a ten-minute

13 break.
14 (A brief recess was taken from 11:09 AM until
15 11:21 AM.)
16 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: We're reconvening the

17 public hearing, so will you please take your
18 seats?
19 Questions came up, someone asked me again
20 during the break, and I would like to go

21 through the June 15th deadline again.
22 When you do a public hearing and allow
23 for comment period, there has to be a date
24 given when that's the end of that comment

25 period for that public hearing. June 15th

315-436-7775
111
1 is the date. However, I've also said that

2 we're doing an additional probably at least
3 two public hearings as we go forward, and each
4 one of them will have a public comment period.

5 It's kind of like when you were in
6 college, if you went to college, and the
7 professor tested you on everything all year
8 long at whatever time you took the test. Or

9 didn't, depending on the professor.
10 In this case it's a test from day one all
11 the way through. So each comment period is on
12 the studies going back to day one.

13 Now, do we have anyone who would wish to
14 comment now? Yes. Please come up, state your
15 name, and we'll go from there.
16 MR. BYRNE: John Byrne, B-Y-R-N-E.

17 I had a couple of comments I'd like to
18 make on comments that other people had brought
19 up that I thought they were a little bit
20 interesting.
21 When they do the noise studies, a lot of
22 times what they'll do is they'll compare them
23 to a suburban area or a street corner. The
24 reason my wife and I moved here about a year

25 ago was for the fact that it's very quiet

315-436-7775
112
1 here. It's not a suburban street corner.

2 It's a very rural setting, and we love the
3 wildlife, we love the quietness of the area.
4 I do believe that the wind turbines could

5 be done in a good way that would be great for
6 the community as a whole, I just think that we
7 do need to look at this and study this. But
8 that's one thing where we need to look into

9 that.
10 Noise is a exponential function or
11 logarithmic function, and it does not behave
12 linearly like most people might think. When

13 you're comparing them it's much different.
14 The other thing I noticed was last summer
15 when we were up here you can sit out on a
16 night sky, look up and see the stars. I don't

17 know if anyone else ever does it, but you can
18 also see satellites going overhead. There's
19 not a lot of interruption as far as light
20 goes.
21 Once you have these red flickering
22 lights, that might play a role. If that can
23 be mitigated or kept to a minimum, I think
24 that would be helpful as well. As far as it

25 being a good thing for the community, we all

315-436-7775
113
1 know the big thing that it's going to bring to

2 the community is money. I don't think that
3 it's been stated, at least I haven't read how
4 much money it will bring to the community. I

5 think that's an important part of this because
6 we all want to benefit the best that we can.
7 Every person in this room that has property in
8 Cape Vincent knows how much we pay in taxes.

9 I think that the wind turbines should pay just
10 as much as everyone else. The wind turbines
11 are going to be more visually -- they're going
12 to stick out more than other people's

13 properties. Why should they get let off easy
14 and only have to pay $5,000 per turbine, or
15 whatever they might pay, when I have to pay
16 two and a half percent of what my property is

17 valued at or whatever that value is?
18 I think these are important things that I
19 would hope that the Board would take into
20 account, and I do -- would like to say that I

21 have a lot of confidence in the Board, I'm
22 sure they'll make the right decision, and take
23 that for what it's worth. Thank you very
24 much.
25 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Thank you. Would

315-436-7775
114
1 anyone else like to comment? We'll be here

2 until 12 if anyone's wishes to comment. Yes?
3 MR. MOEHS: I'm Charlie Moehs. I guess I
4 would like to comment.

5 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Give me one second,
6 Charlie, so I can get to the right set of
7 notes. Yes.
8 MR. MOEHS: A lot of us have spent a fair

9 amount of time reviewing all the information,
10 looking at the DEIS, making copies of it,
11 those kinds of things, and I know that you
12 people are very diligent in trying to keep up

13 with everything and make proper decisions.
14 But the -- there are several issues with
15 the wind towers. One was just brought up by
16 this gentleman, which is what is the benefit

17 to the community. What is it really going to
18 bring to us? What are -- are we going to have
19 tax abatement, those kinds of things.
20 And we've heard a lot of hearsay that

21 there are no tax abatements and in some
22 situations taxes will go up. Or when you ask
23 people in the Lowville area you get differing
24 comments. And so I think financial issues are

25 important, but there is not good information

315-436-7775
115
1 about that, and I'm wondering if there's a way

2 of disseminating what the information is, and
3 perhaps you haven't done any real negotiation,
4 but it would be nice to know what are your

5 negotiating points, what are you looking for.
6 What do you think you want to come up with
7 here, and how is that going to benefit the
8 individual landowner.
9 Another issue is the power. Many people
10 have talked about the fact that we're going to
11 get power. And of course we're not going to
12 get any power at all, but there are options

13 where power could be available. And there are
14 programs and projects that are different.
15 We've talked about compromise here today.
16 So I wondered whether any thought has been

17 given or can be given to a compromise program
18 where income could flow into the community and
19 where power can flow into the community as
20 well. Certainly a few of these towers could

21 be dedicated to the town.
22 And lastly, I wondered whether it
23 wouldn't be a good time to think about a
24 citizen's committee that would help in some of

25 these deliberations and discussions.

315-436-7775
116
1 Certainly there are a lot of smart people

2 around the community that have experience and
3 knowledge, Mr. Brown, Cliff Schneider, various
4 other people that -- or Urban Hirschey that's

5 on different boards. Where not use some of
6 these people? Let's get them together and
7 help them speak for what's going on in the
8 community.
9 MR. HIRSCHEY: I would like to follow up
10 on that.
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Go for it.
12 MR. HIRSCHEY: I just had an idea.

13 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Just give me one
14 second, I've got to get to the right spot.
15 Okay.
16 MR. HIRSCHEY: When Fort Howard closed

17 their mill in Carthage they had a lease on a
18 power dam -- a hydro project in Carthage which
19 they assigned to the Carthage Industrial
20 Development Corporation, which returns to that

21 industrial organization $250,000 a year in
22 royalties or rent, lease. That has made a
23 tremendous difference in Carthage in how it's
24 been able to lift itself up by its bootstraps.

25 And that money is used to improve -- as a

315-436-7775
117
1 matter of fact, the CIDC got a -- one of ten

2 awards for historical preservation in downtown
3 for last year. And it was a wonderful reward.
4 But I'm just thinking the same thing

5 could happen if it were negotiated properly,
6 that there could be money put into some sort
7 of a development -- community development
8 which could encourage businesses and other

9 commercial ventures within the -- and for
10 instance, repairing some of the waterfront.
11 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Anyone else? Yes,
12 John?
13 MR. BYRNE: One thing I forgot on my list
14 was --
15 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Speak up, please.
16 MR. BYRNE: -- fencing and/or shrubbery

17 that I believe that people would probably put
18 up to try to shield. And I believe it's in
19 the DEIS statement that they were proposing to
20 put up.
21 I don't think that the town wants to
22 become a town driving down the road and having
23 fences and shrubbery up all over the place and
24 you can't see anything, especially with the

25 properties along the water. The properties

315-436-7775
118
1 along the water, you would think that you

2 would want to keep them unfenced and
3 unscreened so that people can enjoy the view
4 of the water.
5 But if people choose not to look at them,
6 I believe that they would probably put that
7 stuff up, and that would have a long-term bad
8 effect on the community because nobody would

9 choose to either ride their bicycle down
10 the -- I believe it's called the St. Lawrence
11 Seaway Trail, or whatever it might be called,
12 they might not choose to do that because they

13 don't want to ride down a tunnel. They would
14 rather ride down an area where they can look
15 out and have a nice view of things.
16 Thank you.
17 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Anyone else? Well,
18 we'll be here until noon if you have a
19 comment. Yes? Come on up, state your name.
20 MR. JOHN LAWRENCE: I'm John Lawrence,

21 and I mentioned earlier about stopping by the
22 wind office. And I wasn't sure if that was
23 misunderstood, as a couple comments after, but
24 I just meant to educate ourselves with facts

25 about everything. Because down there they

315-436-7775
119
1 have facts about this project; they have facts

2 about other projects; they have studies and
3 everything. So I just wanted to clarify
4 myself.
5 And also the visual aesthetics in this
6 town are obviously a huge deal. That's why a
7 lot of people are here.
8 And I'd also like to bring to light wind

9 towers or none, they are going to change, I've
10 heard the number 20 years a few times in this
11 meeting, so let's say 20 years, things are
12 going to be different here. There's -- I

13 challenge you to count the number of farms
14 now, and in 20 years it's not going to be
15 nearly the same. And all this land, which
16 might be helped to be preserved as the

17 farmland now with wind -- income from wind
18 towers would maybe be brushland, which would
19 cause the effect that was just brought up of
20 hedges and stuff anyways because there

21 wouldn't be anything to look at.
22 So there's -- there's aesthetic effects
23 both ways because of the agricultural economy
24 right now that will not last the way it is.

25 Thank you.

315-436-7775
120
1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Let me know if you want

2 to come up, we'll be here. Otherwise we're
3 just going to chat among ourselves or
4 whatever.
5 (A recess was taken from 11:35 AM until
6 12:00 PM.)
7 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: We are adjourned. This
8 record will remain open until June 15th for

9 written comment. Thank you all for
10 participating. Have a great day.
11 (The proceeding was concluded at 12:00 PM.)
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

315-436-7775
121
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3
4 I, SALLYANNE B. MAIORANO, Registered Merit

5 Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified CART
6 Provider, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and Notary Public in
7 and for the State of New York, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that I
8 attended the foregoing proceedings, took stenographic notes

9 of the same, that the foregoing, consisting of 120 pages, is
10 a true and correct copy of same and the whole thereof.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 _________________________________________
20 SALLYANNE B. MAIORANO, RMR, CRR, CCP, CSR

21
22
23 Dated: April 2, 2007
24
25

315-436-7775

Public Hearing For Proposed St. Lawrence Wind Project March 24 2007

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Public Hearing For Proposed St. Lawrence Wind Project March 24 2007

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

PUBLIC HEARING ON THE PROPOSED

ST. LAWRENCE WIND ENERGY PROJECT

Held on March 24, 2007, at 9:00 AM, at the Cape Vincent

Recreation Center, South James Street, Cape Vincent,

Present were Mark Gebo, Esq., and Kris Dimmick, PE.

and for the State of New York.

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 CHAIRMAN EDSALL: Please take your seats.

4 few guidelines of what we're going to do. And

8 this; the town's attorney, Mark Gebo; Kris

12 Karen Bourcy from the Planning Board; Andy

20 disagreements with the draft environmental

24 This is the opportunity for you to make

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 is you will need to come up close so the

4 court. So what we're going to ask you to do

8 spelled differently. All right?

12 you to respeak if you have something else you

16 your written response in. And you can mail it

20 Board, Town of Cape Vincent offices, Cape

24 through them. This is first of several public

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 done, additional information gathered, as the

4 supplied, there will be an additional public

8 October, November, March of next year. There

12 for the final environmental impact statement.

16 next step is a site plan review process. And

20 What I'm going to ask you to do today is

24 There's no cheering, jeering, clapping, or

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

4 will stand up and ask you to -- I won't ask

8 submit written comment up until June 15th.

12 not canceled, stopped, whatever, we're just

16 All right. And the first person I have

20 MS. SIMPSON: Do I really have to be

24 MS. SIMPSON: Because I was the first one

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 resident here, year-round resident now.

4 the DEIS to be done by Western Ecosystems

8 sure to find out the impacts on the migratory

12 necessary, ensure the relocation of wind

16 place in New York State. We're fortunate to

20 I am for green energy, but in the proper

24 I'm looking forward to seeing the results

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 negative results endangering our fine

8 and I visited the Maple Ridge Wind Farm up

12 But some of things -- I only got three

16 shadow effect that it will have out on the

20 these fellows up here say they'll go a mile or

24 lawn, and it -- as they admit in this book

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 the diameter of the blades. This is the --

4 here is one with a vegetation. It's in this

8 red on that map.

12 MR. DOCTEUR: That's right. All right.

16 somebody dimming your lights.

24 the wind's coming from that direction, they

PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

1 that they will tell you that they ought to be

4 things on the -- I would like to say this too:

8 a convoy and show you these places, talk to

12 That's all I have for now.