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Centrifugal Pump Minimum Flow Physical Properties on the Internet

Started by pasquale, Dec 13 2006 01:42 PM Centrifugal Pumps: Basic Concepts of
Operation,...

Rupture Disks for Process Engineers - Part

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Keeping Ejectors Online
Posted 13 December 2006 - 01:42 PM
pasquale Measure Discharge Flow from a Horizontal
Pipe

Hi all, Trickling Biofilters for Hydrogen Sulfide

Odor...
I need to know all about centrifugal pump minimum flow and about the way of
Centrifugal Pumps: Understanding
sizing the minimum flow bypass valve (on the return minimum flow line) Cavitation

Forms of Corrosion
Posted 14 December 2006 - 12:11 AM
Nirav
Relief Valves: "What Can Go Wrong"
Scen...
hello pasquale,
Rupture Disks for Process Engineers - Part
3
I suggest you to read the attached article which will help you to understand
how centrifugal pumps are controlled. This was published in "Hydrocarbon

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Processing", July 1995. Top Downloads

Shell and Tube Heat E

The minimum flow of centrifugal pump depends very specific to pump model and selected impeller of the same. These are, in and Design
general, decided by pump vendors based on process data specified by Chem.Engr.
Various Engineering C

At any point of time during operation, pump should not be run below this flow. It will damage the pump & its internals. Process Heat Transfer
Therefore, there are various ways to ensure that pump will always have atleast the flow equal to minimum required. I'm
Process Engineering C
listing some common ways.
[1] Minimum flow by-pass control valve Physical Property Dat
[2] Minimum flow by-pass restriction orifice (continuous flow)
Pipe Size Optimization
[3] Minimum flow by-pass auto recirculation valve. Stainless Steel Pipes

Experience Based Rul

The configuration to be used depends entirely on your system design & philosophy. For example, the option [2] above will Engineering
always have minimum flow from pump going back to its suction vessel. Which means this is addtional flow over and above
Distillation Theoretica
process requirement flowing continuously. Which means you are consuming more pump power all the time.
Thermodynamic and T
On the other hand, option [1] would provide you flow through minimum flow line only when the main process flow is going of Water and Steam

below the minimum pump flow. I hope you understand the difference from option [2]. Distillation Pilot Plan

Now in brief, to size the control valve on min flow line, you must consider following.
# Total max flow through control valve = Pump min flow
# Pressure drop of control valve = Approximately (pump discharge pressure - operating pressure of suction vessel - pressure
drop through minimum flow line).
You need to carry out detailed hydraulic calculations of pump system to find out pressure drop accurately.

I hope it helps.

Posted 14 December 2006 - 07:15 AM

pasquale

Thanks Nirav,

I know the attached article and I fully agree with you about the way of designign a centrifugal pump bypass line.

actually my problemi is a little bit different because I'm working on a basic engineering project so I don't know really the
pump and I have no contact with the pump vendor.

So, as a rule of thumb, how I can estimate the pump minimum flow ?

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I have estimated as minimum flow value 40% of the pump design flowrate and for the pump differential pressure at this flow
I've used 110% of the design discharge pressure.

These values sounds to you?

Thank in advance

Pasquale

Process Engineer

Rome Italy

Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:57 AM

Nirav

Hi pasquale,

I think 40% should be enough for estimation purpose of minimum flow (in case if you are going ahead with control valve on
your by-pass line). You can check with similar kind of pump in your past data, if you have.
You need to be more careful if you are implementing restriction orifice concept since higher estimation may lead to
unnecessary higher operating and probably capital cost of pump.

In any case, I would suggest you to put a "note" on process datasheet of pump as well as min.flow control valve which says that
the min.flow should be confirmed/updated during detailed engineering based on vendor's input. This is what I have observed
in my experience.

Thank you,

Posted 15 December 2006 - 07:06 AM

pasquale

Hi Nirav

Thanks for your reply.

I never have done a detailed engeneering project untill now, so my datasheet are full of this kind of note....!!

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Have you a pump vendor datasheet with all the data for a centrifugal pump?

Can you attach it to a reply?

What do you think of my estimation of pump's differential pressure at minimum flow (110% of design discharge? is good).

Thanks in advance.

Pasquale

Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:47 PM

pleckner

Pasquale,

You indeed do have contact with a pump manufacturer...the INTERNET. If you are in a plant, just look around to see the
brand of pump the facility typically uses. If you are in an E&C, then the project must have a prefered bidders list. Choose a
pump brand, contact the vendor via their website or even call them and discuss. They will be very happy to give you FREE
help.

Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:41 AM

palusa

Pasquale,

at a very early stage, without specific info from Vendors, for 'normal' non critical pumps, a minflow 20-25% of rated flow can
be considered as a ballpark figure.

For larger pumps (say >150-180kW) or in critical service (e.g. bfw) a larger amount 30-40% are advisable...in this case
however info from OEM are vital.

For non critical pumps, the minflow could be carried out through a continuos bleed and a restriction orifice (routed to the
suction tank); considering a 'typical' non-flat pump curve, a 110% head at 25% seems ok.

In case of larger amount, minflow is normally ensured through special recirculation valves on pump discharge, opening at
specified pump head.

Hope this can help.

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_Lf

Posted 18 December 2006 - 12:26 PM

pasquale

Hi Palusa,

Thanks for the informations, the data that you told me sounds good to me.

I've senn that you post from Bologna, so 'sei italiano'?

I work in Rome as process engineering of a enginnering company.

I hope to see other your post in this forum.

Ciao

Pasquale, rome

Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:53 AM

Nirav

QUOTE (pasquale)
Have you a pump vendor datasheet with all the data for a centrifugal pump?

Can you attach it to a reply?

Hello pasquale,

There is a very good detailed reply by Palusa on thumb rules to determine minimum flow.

Most Vendors fill relevant data in the datasheet as described in API-610.

You may have it with you. But I'm attaching 1st page of this typical format for your reference.
1st page mainly contains all process related data. You can find pump minimum flow under the headnig "performance" on this
page.

Thank you,

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 09:59 PM

palusa

Good discussion and data on this subject can be found in

I.Taylor "Pump Bypasses now more important", Chemical Engineering, May 11, 1987, pg. 53.

_Lf

Posted 20 December 2006 - 06:58 AM

pasquale

Hi Palusa,

Do you have a copy af this article?

Pasquale

Posted 20 December 2006 - 08:41 PM

palusa

Pasquale,
attached the article.
Hope it helps.

_Lf

Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:10 AM

pasquale

Hi Palusa

Thanks for the article it is very interesting and it is what I need!!

Merry Christmas

Pasquale

Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:40 PM

JLMONTREAL

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Centrifugal Pump Minimum Flow - Cheresources.com Community http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/3260-centrifugal-pump-minimum-flow/

Hi, Palusa

do you mind to forward me a copy to JLmontreal@gmail.com?

Thanks.
Joe

Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:11 PM

JLMONTREAL

QUOTE (Nirav @ Dec 13 2006, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=9042)

hello pasquale,

I suggest you to read the attached article which will help you to understand how centrifugal pumps are controlled. This was
published in "Hydrocarbon Processing", July 1995.

Hi,

I am wondering if there are different opinons on the necessity of BYPASS LINE ACROSS A PUMP. I have depicted my
understanding below for this issue. Please show your opinions so that it may help me to better understan this application.

The articles quoted above and that recommended by Palusa have discussed this topic mainly in the point of process control
and minor discussion for equipment protection. These articles told the readers that a recycle loop is not so necessary.

To my understanding, a bypass is necessary for a centrifuge pump (there is no doubt for positive displacement pump) in
majority of applications, particularly in continuous plant.

Besides some reasons cited in above articles, I would talk from the point of operation and plant management.

1. Pump test-run. Pump test-run has to be performed after installation before put into service. The pump needs to be started
(normally with water) and kept running at least for several hours, even several days, so that technicians may find if there are
some problems caused by pump fabrication, installation or even piping design by inspecting the vibration of pump and
piping, noise, temperature and etc.. This practice is necessary to prove the reliability of a pump INSTALLED. Manufacturer
warranty won't cover installation problems and associated piping problems. However, at this moment the equipments and
piping are not cleaned enough, there may be dust, welding debris, rags in the pipe, so water cannot be discharged to
downstream vessels because there may be tender instrument components or other sensitive components in the downstream
pipes or equipments. This water cannot be discharged into gully directly because of water cost and waste water cost. The best

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way is to recirulate water via a bypass pipe.

Is there better solution to test run a new installed pump without a bypass pipe? One solution may be to establish water
recirculation in entire system. But if any component has problem, the recirculation in entire system has to be stopped
completely, so test-run can't be performed for other rotating equipments. With a bypass pipe, different jobs may be
performed in parallel. This can save lots of time, particularly in a big plant.

2. Pump switch during normal operation. If a pump needs maintenance, it has to be taken offline without disturbing normal
process status. The operator needs to start standby pump and keep it running for certain time under recirculation via bypass
line. If the pump is believed running correctly, then operator switch it in service.

Once the repaired pump is installed, it has to be started up and kept running for some time under recirculation to check if it is
well repaired.

In terms of management, even in some plant, the standby pump needs to be started and kept recirculation for certain while
periodically to confirm its good status.

Without bypass line, I don't know how to perform these activities.

3. Safety. As above mentions reasons plus the reasons in the quoted articles, if a bypass installed for a pump, it will minimize
the on-off frequency to a pump, increase the pump's working life,increase plant operation flexibility and minimize the
shutdown of the plant, increase plant stability, and concequently reduce plant cost. And more important, the stability of a
plant can minimize safety problems in chemical plant. The more fluctuation, the more possibility of safety problems.

That is for sure that installing a bypass will increase capital cost. However, comparing the benefits with the extra cost, there is
more better-off. And also, it can save cost from point of management as mentioned above.

Please input your opinions, I would appreciate all input.

Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:22 PM

Art Montemayor

Joe:

I‘ve started to track this thread and I immediately spotted what I believe is troubling you (and probably others) when you
try to understand the need for centrifugal pump protection regarding its inherent need to have a minimum, positive flow
established through its casing.

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The problem is that some engineers are using the wrong terms when they mean something else. I think you also are
falling into the same trap. I also have had trouble with these types of communications in the past – especially when
discussing piping arrangements and design with pipers and construction people. The fundamental problem is the use of
the generic term “Bypass”.

First, lets all agree on the definition of “bypass” before employing it. The definition of a bypass line or piping circuit is a
section of pipe run that is used to literally go around a piece of downstream equipment – eliminating that portion of flow
from going through the equipment. In other words, the flow is eliminated from going through the in-line equipment and is
allowed to continue on downstream, to its designed ultimate target. When we do this, we have bypassed the downstream
equipment.

That is NOT what one does when one needs to ensure a minimum flow through a centrifugal pump. I have been on top
of this very application for the last 6 months on several, very huge centrifugal water injection pumps equipped with
Variable Frequency Drives. These pumps are for a major international oil company and they are multi-staged, 3,000 psig
discharge, 2,000 hp and 7,000 hp in size. These are serious and important issues for these pumps and are not to be taken
lightly. The usual method to ensure that a centrifugal pump has a minimum flow through it is to divert its discharge to
one of two targets in the event the designed target is throttled beyond the official minimum flow rate:
Recycle the flow back to the source (in some cases this might have to be the pump’s own suction line;
Cascade the flow to a lower pressure system that can take the flow;

The above two actions do not constitute a bypass. The flow is either recycled or it is sent to a different system. The
flow does not go around a system or equipment in its normal downstream process path. By using the term bypass a lot of
confusion is being created, in my opinion. It is not intentional; it is just mis-used. It does not accurately describe what is
happening and it leaves the wrong mental imagery and interpretation.

Your comments have nothing to do - nor are they related to – with the subject of this thread: Centrifugal Pump Minimum
Flow. I’m not trying to be critical or negative. You raise some very good questions and comments, but I think they
belong in a thread of their own and I would title that thread “Centrifugal Pump Flow Controls Design”.

I would love to participate in Centrifugal Pump Minimum Flow discussions and also on Centrifugal Pump Flow Controls,
but I don’t think both can be handled within the same thread with a minimum level of confusion.

Could you start a new thread on your subject matter? I think your points are important and they often come out –
especially in operating plant environments.

Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:57 PM

JLMONTREAL

Thank you Art.

I fully agree your definition for BYPASS. I thought it could be understood and kept using the same words through my post. In
fact, I used to use PUMP RECIRCULATION LOOP.

I would create a new thread as FUNCTION OF CENTRIFUGE PUMP RECIRCULATION LOOP, so that we can concentrate on
its function from the point of flow control, operation and/or other standpoints.

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Please make your correction if you have better title for the new thread.

Thanks.
joe

Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:00 AM

Minti

Hi,
i want to know about centrifugal pump minimum bypass flow, can you please send me the files to study which were mentioned
in the discussions above at my email amit.us.pande@gmail.com (mailto:amit.us.pande@gmail.com)

1) published in "Hydrocarbon Processing", July 1995.

2) I.Taylor "Pump Bypasses now more important", Chemical Engineering, May 11, 1987, pg. 53.

Thanks & Regards

Amit

pasquale, on 21 December 2006 - 07:10 AM, said:

Hi Palusa

Thanks for the article it is very interesting and it is what I need!!

Merry Christmas

Pasquale

Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:30 AM

krvishwa

Can you please me the article to my mail ID krvishwa@gmail.com

Regards
Vishwanath

Minti, on 25 August 2010 - 05:00 AM, said:

Hi,
i want to know about centrifugal pump minimum bypass flow, can you please send me the files to study which were mentioned in the
discussions above at my email amit.us.pande@gmail.com (mailto:amit.us.pande@gmail.com)

10 of 14 3/2/2012 1:35 PM
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1) published in "Hydrocarbon Processing", July 1995.

2) I.Taylor "Pump Bypasses now more important", Chemical Engineering, May 11, 1987, pg. 53.

Thanks & Regards

Amit

pasquale, on 21 December 2006 - 07:10 AM, said:

Hi Palusa

Thanks for the article it is very interesting and it is what I need!!

Merry Christmas

Pasquale

Posted 10 August 2011 - 01:39 AM

Hello!

If someone could forward me the two articles it would be much appreciated!! :-)

jo_leblanc@hotmail.com (mailto:jo_leblanc@hotmail.com)

thanks!

Jo

krvishwa, on 17 February 2011 - 05:30 AM, said:

Can you please me the article to my mail ID krvishwa@gmail.com

Regards
Vishwanath

Minti, on 25 August 2010 - 05:00 AM, said:

11 of 14 3/2/2012 1:35 PM
Centrifugal Pump Minimum Flow - Cheresources.com Community http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/3260-centrifugal-pump-minimum-flow/

Hi,
i want to know about centrifugal pump minimum bypass flow, can you please send me the files to study which were mentioned in the
discussions above at my email amit.us.pande@gmail.com (mailto:amit.us.pande@gmail.com)

1) published in "Hydrocarbon Processing", July 1995.

2) I.Taylor "Pump Bypasses now more important", Chemical Engineering, May 11, 1987, pg. 53.

Thanks & Regards

Amit

pasquale, on 21 December 2006 - 07:10 AM, said:

Hi Palusa

Thanks for the article it is very interesting and it is what I need!!

Merry Christmas

Pasquale

Posted 25 December 2011 - 03:45 PM

TheEdge

Hi guys,

Thank God I found this forum! This is a great place to learn and there is just so much to information shared here. I am very
new in pump and piping know-how.

I would just like to find out what is the common practice for pump recirculation line. It is just that my current company
practices one and my previous company practices another. The former recirculate back to the vessel supply while the latter
recirculate it back to the pump suction. I am quite confused about this.

Thank you in advance for your guidance here.

Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:44 AM

WSBAE

Dear all,

12 of 14 3/2/2012 1:35 PM
Centrifugal Pump Minimum Flow - Cheresources.com Community http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/3260-centrifugal-pump-minimum-flow/

In my case, canned motor pump have been used.

This pump has a large amount of minimum flow. The largest minimum flow is almost same of pump rated capacity(appox.
90%), and the smallest minimum flow is appox. 5% of pump rated capacity. And, in some case, those have a reverse
circulation line to prevent pump cavitation.

Just being there to see.

Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:34 PM

mishra.anand72@gmail.com

Does not minimum flow to be maintained through pump depends upon specific heat value of process fluid being pumped?

Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:17 PM

deltaChe

In Bechtel Design practice, the minimum flow can vary form 10 to 50 percent of the rated flow.
If a continuous minimum flow is provided by means of a continuous flow recirculation line with a restriction orifice, the
recirculating lfow should be added to the rated flow. Hope this help.

Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:36 PM

breizh

Hi ,
Take a look at this resource.

Breizh

Attached Files
(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=4472)
minimum flow centrifugal pump.pdf (http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?app=core&
module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=4472) 217.72K 61 downloads

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