You are on page 1of 58

Chapter 2: Heat Conduction

Equation
Dr Ali Jawarneh
Department of Mechanical Engineering, Hashemite University
Objectives
j
When you finish studying this chapter, you should be able to:
• Understand multidimensionality and time dependence of heat transfer,
and the conditions under which a heat transfer problem can be
approximated as being one-dimensional,
• Obtain the differential equation of heat conduction in various
coordinate
di t systems,
t andd simplify
i lif it for
f steady
t d one-dimensional
di i l case,
• Identify the thermal conditions on surfaces, and express them
mathematically as boundary and initial conditions,
• Solve one-dimensional heat conduction problems and obtain the
temperature distributions within a medium and the heat flux,
• Analyze one
one-dimensional
dimensional heat conduction in solids that involve heat
generation, and
• Evaluate heat conduction in solids with temperature-dependent
thermal conductivity.
cond cti it
Introduction
• Although heat transfer and temperature are
closely related, they are of a different nature.
• Temperature has only magnitude
it is a scalar quantity.
• Heat transfer has direction as well as magnitude
it is a vector quantity.
q y
• We work with a coordinate system and indicate
direction with plus or minus signs.
Introduction ─ Continue
• The driving force for any form of heat transfer is the
temperature difference.
• The larger the temperature difference, the larger the
rate of heat transfer.
• Three prime coordinate systems:
– rectangular
g (T(x,
( ( y,y z, t)))) ,
– cylindrical (T(r, φ, z, t)),
– spherical (T(r, φ, θ, t)).
Introduction ─ Continue
Classification of conduction heat transfer problems:
• steady versus transient heat transfer,
transfer
• multidimensional heat transfer,
• heat generation.
Steady versus Transient Heat Transfer
• Steady implies no change with time at any point
within the medium

• Transient implies variation with time or time


dependence
p
Multidimensional Heat Transfer
• Heat transfer problems are also classified as being:
– one-dimensional,
– two dimensional,
– three-dimensional.
• In the most general case, heat transfer through a
medium is three-dimensional. However, some
problems can be classified as two- or one-dimensional
d
depending
di on theth relative
l ti magnitudes
it d off heat
h t transfer
t f
rates in different directions and the level of accuracy
desired.
desired
• The rate of heat conduction through a medium in
a specified direction (say, in the x-direction) is
expressed by Fourier’s law of heat conduction
for one-dimensional heat conduction as:
& dT
Qcond = − kA ((W)) ((2-1))
d
dx
• Heat is conducted in the direction
off decreasing
d i temperature,
t t andd thus
th
the temperature gradient is negative
when
h hheat is
i conducted
d d in
i the
h positive
i i x-
direction.
General Relation for Fourier’s Law of
H tC
Heat Conduction
d ti
• The heat flux vector at a point P on the surface of
the
h figure
fi must be
b perpendicular
di l to theh surface,
f
and it must point in the direction of decreasing
temperature
• If n is the normal of the
isothermal surface at point P,
P
the rate of heat conduction at
th t point
that i t can be
b expressedd by
b
Fourier’s law as
& dT
Qn = − kA (W) (2-2)
dn
General Relation for Fourier’s Law of
Heat Conduction-Continue
• In rectangular coordinates, the heat conduction
vector can be expressed
r in terms of its components as
r r r
Q& n = Q& x i + Q& y j + Q& z k ((2-3))
• which can be determined from Fourier’s law as
⎧& ∂T
⎪Qx = −kAx ∂x

⎪& ∂T
⎨Qy = −kAy (2-4)
⎪ ∂y
⎪ ∂T
&
⎪Qz = −kAz
⎩ ∂z
Heat Generation
• Examples:
– electrical energy being converted to heat at a rate of I2R,
– fuel elements of nuclear reactors,
– exothermic chemical reactions.
• Heat generation is a volumetric phenomenon.
• The rate of heat generation units : W/m3 or Btu/h · ft3.
• The rate of heat generation in a medium may vary
with time as well as position within the medium.
• The total rate of heat generation in a medium of
volume V can be determined from

gen
V

E& = e& dV (W) gen (2-5)
One-Dimensional Heat Conduction
Equation - Plane Wall
Rate of heat Rate of heat Rate of heat Rate of change of
conduction - conduction + generation inside the energy content
at x at x+Δx the element
= of the element

& ΔE
& &
Qx −Qx +Δx + Egen,element = element
Δt
( )
(2-6)
& & & ΔEelement
Qx − Qx+Δx + Egen,element = (2-6)
Δt
• The change in the energy content and the rate of heat
generation can be expressed as
⎪ Eelement = Et +Δt − Et = mc (Tt +Δt − Tt ) = ρcAΔx (Tt +Δt − Tt ) (2-7)
⎧Δ
⎨&
⎪⎩Egen,element = e&genVelement = e&gen AΔx (2-8)

• Substituting
S b tit ti into
i t Eq.
E 2–6,
2 6 we gett
& & Tt +Δt − Tt (2-9)
+
Qx − Qx+Δx gen
e& AΔx = ρcAΔx
Δt
Δt
• Dividing by AΔx, taking the limit as ΔxÆ 0 and ΔtÆ 0,
and from Fourier’s law:
1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂T
⎜ kA + &
⎟ gen
e = ρ c (2-11)
A ∂x ⎝ ∂x ⎠ ∂t
The area A is constant for a plane wall Æ the one dimensional
transient
i heat
h conduction
d i equation i ini a plane
l wall
ll is
i

Variable conductivity:
y ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂T
⎜k ⎟ + egen = ρ c
& ((2-13))
∂x ⎝ ∂x ⎠ ∂t
∂ 2T e&gen 1 ∂T k
Constant conductivity:
y + = ; α= ((2-14))
∂x 2
k α ∂t ρc
The one-dimensional conduction equation may be reduces
t the
to th ffollowing
ll i fforms under
d special
i l conditions
diti
d 2T e&gen
1) Steady-state: 2
+ =0 (2-15)
dx k
∂ 2T 1 ∂T
2) Transient, no heat generation: = (2-16)
∂x 2
α ∂t
d 2T
3) Steady-state, no heat generation: 2
=0 (2-17)
dx
One-Dimensional Heat Conduction
Equation - Long Cylinder
Rate of heat Rate of heat Rate of heat Rate of change of
conduction - conduction + generation inside the energy content
at r at r+Δr the element
= of the element

ΔEelement
Q& r −Q& r +Δr + E& gen,element =
Δt
(2-18)
& & & ΔEelement
Qr − Qr +Δr + Egen,element = (2-18)
Δt
• The change in the energy content and the rate of heat
generation can be expressed as
⎪ Eelement = Et +Δt − Et = mc (Tt +Δt − Tt ) = ρcAΔr (Tt +Δt − Tt ) (2-19)
⎧Δ
⎨&
⎪⎩Egen,element = e&genVelement = e&gen AΔr (2-20)

• Substituting
S b tit ti into
i t Eq.
E 2–18,
2 18 we gett
& & Tt +Δt − Tt (2-21)
+
Qr − Qr +Δr gen
e& AΔr = ρcAΔr
Δt
Δt
• Dividing by AΔr, taking the limit as ΔrÆ 0 and ΔtÆ 0,
and from Fourier’s law:
1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂T
⎜ kA + &
⎟ gen
e = ρ c (2-23)
A ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ ∂t
Noting that the area varies with the independent variable r
according to A=2πrL,
rL the one dimensional transient heat
conduction equation in a long cylinder becomes
Variable conductivity: 1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂T ((2-25))
⎜ rkk + &
⎟ gen
e = ρ c
r ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ ∂t
1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ e&gen 1 ∂T
Constant conductivity: ⎜r ⎟+ = ((2-26))
r ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ k α ∂t
The one-dimensional conduction equation may be reduces
to the following forms under special conditions
1 d ⎛ dT ⎞ e&gen
1) Steady-state: ⎜r ⎟+ = 0 (2-27)
r dr ⎝ dr ⎠ k
1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ 1 ∂T
2) Transient, no heat generation: ⎜r ⎟= (2-28)
r ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ α ∂t
d ⎛ dT ⎞
3) Steady-state, no heat generation: ⎜r ⎟=0 (2-29)
dr ⎝ dr ⎠
One-Dimensional Heat Conduction
Equation - Sphere

1 ∂ ⎛ 2 ∂T ⎞ ∂T
Variable conductivity: ⎜r k ⎟ + e&gen = ρ c (2-30)
r ∂r ⎝
2
∂r ⎠ ∂t

1 ∂ ⎛ 2 ∂T ⎞ e&gen 1 ∂T
Constant conductivity: ⎜r ⎟+ = (2-31)
r ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ k
2
α ∂t
• ∂T
L
Large Pl
Plane W
Wall:
ll Q = − KA x
∂x
• ∂T
Long Cylinder: Q = − KA r , A r = 2π r L
∂r
• ∂T 2
Sphere: Q = − KA r , A r = 4π r

∂r
General Heat Conduction Equation
q

Rate of heat Rate of heat Rate of heat Rate of change


conduction -conduction
+ generation
= of the energy
at x, y, and z at x+Δx, y+Δy, inside the content of the
and z+Δz element element

& & & ΔEelement


Qx + Qy + Qz −Qx +Δx − Qy +Δy − Qz +Δz
& & & + E gen ,element = (2-36)
Δt
Repeating the mathematical approach used for the one-
dimensional heat conduction the three-dimensional
three dimensional heat
conduction equation is determined to be
Two-dimensional

Constant conductivity:
y ∂ 2T ∂ 2T ∂ 2T e&gen 1 ∂T
+ 2 + 2 + = ((2-39))
∂x 2
∂y ∂z k α ∂t

Three-dimensional

∂ 2T ∂ 2T ∂ 2T e&gen
+ 2 + 2 + = 0 (2-40)
1) Steady-state: ∂x 2
∂y ∂z k
∂ 2T ∂ 2T ∂ 2T 1 ∂T
2) Transient, no heat generation: ∂x 2 + ∂y 2 + ∂z 2 = α ∂t (2-41)

∂ 2T ∂ 2T ∂ 2T
3) Steady-state, no heat generation: 2 + 2 + 2 = 0 (2-42)
∂x ∂y ∂z
Cylindrical Coordinates

1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ 1 ∂T ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂T
⎜ rk ⎟+ 2 ⎜k ⎟+ ⎜k ⎟ + e&gen = ρ c
r ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ r ∂φ ⎝ ∂φ ⎠ ∂z ⎝ ∂z ⎠ ∂t
(2 43)
(2-43)
Spherical Coordinates

1 ∂ ⎛ 2 ∂T ⎞ 1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ 1 ∂ ⎛ ∂T ⎞ ∂T
⎜ kr ⎟+ 2 2 ⎜k ⎟+ 2 ⎜ k sin θ ⎟ + egen = ρ c
&
r ∂r ⎝ ∂r ⎠ r ssin θ ∂φ ⎝ ∂φ ⎠ r ssin θ ∂θ ⎝ ∂θ ⎠ ∂t
2

(2-44)
Boundary and Initial Conditions
• Specified Temperature Boundary Condition
• Specified Heat Flux Boundary Condition
• C
Convection
i Boundary
d Condition
C di i
• Radiation Boundary Condition
• Interface Boundary Conditions
• Generalized Boundary Conditions
Specified Temperature Boundary
Condition
For one-dimensional
F di i l heat
h t transfer
t f
through a plane wall of thickness
L for example
L, example, the specified
temperature boundary conditions
can be expressed
p as
T(0, t) = T1
T(L, t) = T2 (2-46)

The specified temperatures can be constant, which is the


case for steady heat conduction,
conduction or may vary with time.
time
Specified Heat Flux Boundary
Condition
The heat flux in the positive x-
di i anywhere
direction h in i the
h medium,
di
including the boundaries, can be
expressed by Fourier
Fourier’ss law of heat
conduction as
dT Heat flux in the
q& = − k = positive x- (2-47)
dx direction

The sign
Th i off the
th specified
ifi d heat
h t flux
fl isi determined
d t i d by
b
inspection: positive if the heat flux is in the positive
direction of the coordinate axis,
axis and negative if it is in
the opposite direction.
Two Special Cases
Insulated boundary Thermal symmetry

k
∂T (0, t )
=0 or
∂T (0, t )
=0 ( 2 )
∂T L , t
=0
∂x ∂x ∂x
∂x
(2-49) (2-50)
Cylindrical Thermal Symmetry:

Spherical Thermal symmetry:


Convection Boundary Condition

Heat conduction Heat convection


at the surface in a
selected direction = at the surface in
the same direction

∂T (0, t )
−k = h1 [T∞1 − T (0, t ) ] (2-51a)
∂x
and
∂T ( L, t )
−k = h2 [T ( L, t ) − T∞ 2 ] (2-51b)
∂x
Radiation Boundary Condition

Heat conduction Radiation exchange


at the surface in a
selected direction
= att the
th surface
f iin
the same direction

∂T (0, t )
−k = ε1σ ⎡⎣Tsurr
4
,1
1 − T (0, t ) 4
⎤⎦ (2-52a)
(2 52a)
∂x
and
∂T ( L, t )
−k = ε 2σ ⎡⎣T ( L, t ) 4 − Tsurr
4

,2 ⎦
(2 52b)
(2-52b)
∂x
Interface Boundary Conditions
At the interface the requirements are:
(1) two bodies in contact must have the same
temperature at the area of contact,
(2) an interface (which is a
surface) cannot store any
energy, and thus the heat flux
on the two sides of an
interface must be the same.
TA(x0, t) = TB(x0, t) (2-53)
and
∂TA ( x0 , t ) ∂T ( x , t )
−k A = − k B B 0 (2-54)
∂x ∂x
Generalized Boundary Conditions
In general a surface may involve convection, radiation,
and specified heat flux simultaneously. The boundary
condition in such cases is again obtained from a surface
energy balance, expressed as
Heat transfer Heat transfer
to the surface
in all modes
= from the surface
In all modes
Important Comments:
11- The positive direction of heat transfer to be in the positive
positi e x or
r direction
2- Set the conduction boundary condition equal to –kdT/dx

dT dT
−q o = − k (0) dT −q o = − k (0)
dx qo = −k (0) dx
dT dx dT
qo = k ((0)) qo = k ((0))
d
dx dx
dT dT
dT −q L = − k (L) −k (L) = h[T(L) − T∞ ]
−q L = − k (L) dx dx
dx
dT dT
dT qL = k (L) k (L) = h[T∞ − T(L)]
qL = k (L) dx dx
dx
Example: Consider a large plane wall of thickness L= 0.4 m, thermal
conductivity k = 2.3 W/m ·°C, and surface area A= 20 m2. The left
side of the wall is maintained at a constant temperature of T1 = 80°C
while the right side loses heat by convection to the surrounding air at
T = 15°C with a heat transfer coefficient of h = 24 W/m2 · °C.
Assuming constant thermal conductivity and no heat generation in
the wall, (a) express the differential equation and the boundary
conditions for steadyy one-dimensional heat conduction through g the
wall, (b) obtain a relation for the variation of temperature in the wall
by solving the differential equation, and (c) evaluate the rate of heat
transfer through
g the wall.

k
T1=80°C
A 20 m2
A=20 T∞ =15°C
15 C
h=24
L=0.4 m
W/m2.°C

x
Assumptions:
1 Heat
H conduction
d i is i steady
d andd one-dimensional.
di i l
2 Thermal conductivity is constant.
3 There is no heat generation.
g
Properties The thermal conductivity is given to be k = 2.3
W/m⋅°C.
Analysis (a) Taking the direction normal to the surface of the wall
to be the x direction with x = 0 at the left surface, the mathematical
formulation of this problem can be expressed as

d 2T
2
=0
dx
T (0) = T1 = 80° C
dT ( L)
−k = h[T ( L) − T∞ ]
dx
(b) Integrating the differential equation twice with respect to x yields
dT
= C1 T ( x ) = C1x + C2
dx

x = 0: T (0) = C1 × 0 + C2 → C2 = T1
x = L:
h(C2 − T∞ ) h(T1 − T∞ )
− kC1 = h[(C1 L + C2 ) − T∞ ] → C1 = − → C1 = −
k + hL k + hL

h(T1 − T∞ )
T ( x) = − x + T1
k + hL
(24 W / m2 ⋅° C)(80 − 15)° C
=− 2
x + 80° C
(2.3 W / m⋅° C) + (24 W / m ⋅° C)(0.4 m)
= 80 − 1311
.x
(c) The rate of heat conduction through the wall is

& dT h(T1 − T∞ )
Q wall = −kA = − kAC1 = kA
dx k + hL
2
2 ( 24 W/m ⋅ °C)(80 − 15)°C
= (2.3 W/m ⋅ °C)(20 m )
(2.3 W/m ⋅ °C) + (24 W/m 2 ⋅ °C)(0.4 m))
= 6030 W
EXAMPLE: Aspherical container of inner radius r1 = 2 m, outer
radius r2= 2.12 1 m,
m and thermal conductivity k = 30 W/m · °C is
filled with iced water at 0°C. The container is gaining heat by
convection from the surrounding air at T = 25°C with a heat
t
transfer
f coefficient
ffi i t off h = 18 W/m2
W/ 2 · °C.
°C Assuming
A i the
th inner
i
surface temperature of the container to be 0°C, (a) express the
differential equation and the boundary conditions for steady
one-dimensional
di i l heat
h t conduction
d ti through
th h the
th container,
t i (b) obtain
bt i
a relation for the variation of temperature in the container
by solving the differential equation, and (c) evaluate the rate of
heat gain to the iced water. k T1

T∞
h
r1 r2
Assumptions:
1 Heat conduction is steady and one
one-dimensional
dimensional since
there is no change with time and there is thermal symmetry
about the midpoint.
2 Thermal conductivity is constant.
3 There is no heat generation.

Properties: The thermal conductivity is given to be k = 30


W/m⋅°C.

(a) d ⎛ 2 dT ⎞
⎜r ⎟=0 T (r1 ) = T1 = 0° C
dr ⎝ dr ⎠
dT (r2 )
−k = h[T (r2 ) − T∞ ]
dr
(b) Integrating the differential equation once with respect to r gives

2dT dT C1
r = C1 = 2 T (r ) = −
C1
+ C2
dr dr r r
C1
r = r1: T (r1 ) = − + C2 = T1
r1
r = r2: C1 ⎛ C1 ⎞
− k 2 = h⎜⎜ − + C2 − T∞ ⎟⎟
r2 ⎝ r2 ⎠

r2 (T1 − T∞ ) C1 T1 − T∞ r2
C1 = and C2 = T1 + = T1 +
r2 k r1 r2 k r1
1− − 1− −
r1 hr2 r1 hr2
(c) The rate of heat conduction through the wall is

& dT 2 C1 r2 (T1 − T∞ )
Q = − kA = − k(4πr ) 2 = −4πkC1 = −4πk
dr r r k
1− 2 −
r1 hr2
(2.1 m)(0 − 25)°C
= −4π(30 W/m ⋅⋅°C) = 23,
23 460 W
2.1 30 W/m ⋅°C
1− −
2 (18 W/m 2 ⋅°C)(2.1 m)
• Heat Generation in Solids
The quantities of major interest in a medium with heat
generation are the surface temperature Ts and the
maximum temperature Tmax that occurs in the medium
in steadyy operation.
p
Heat Generation in Solids -The Surface
T
Temperature
t
Rate of Rate of
heat transfer
from the solid
= energy generation
within the solid
(2 63)
(2-63)

For uniform heat generation within the medium


Q& = e&genV (W) (2-64)
The hheatt ttransfer
Th f rate
t by
b convection
ti can also
l beb
expressed from Newton’s law of cooling as
- Q& = hAs (Ts − T∞ ) (W) (2-65)

e&genV
Ts = T∞ + (2 66)
(2-66)
hAs
Heat Generation in Solids -The Surface
Temperature
For a large plane wall of thickness 2L (As=2Awall and
V=2LAwall)
e&gen L
Ts , plane wall = T∞ + (2-67)
h
For a long solid cylinder of radius r0 (As=2πr0L and
V πr02L)
V= e&gen r0
Ts ,cylinder = T∞ + (2-68)
2h
For a solid sphere of radius r0 (As=4πr02 and V=4/3πr03)
e&gen r0
Ts , sphere = T∞ + (2-69)
3h
Heat Generation in Solids -The maximum
Temperature in a Cylinder (the Centerline)
The heat generated within an inner
cylinder must be equal to the heat
conducted through its outer surface.
dT
d
−kAr = e&genVr (2-70)
dr
Substituting these expressions into the above equation
and separating the variables, we get
e&gen
−k ( 2π rL )
dT
dr
( )
= e&gen π r L → dT = −
2

2k
rdr

Integrating from r =0 where T(0) =T0 to r=ro


e&gen r02
ΔTmax,cylinder = T0 − Ts = (2-71)
4k
The maximum temperature
p To in:
Plane Wall of thickness 2L

Solid Sphere of radius ro

Where: ΔTmax = To − Ts
Assumptions
1 Heat
H t transfer
t f isi steady
t d since
i there
th iis no change
h with
ith ti
time.
2 Heat transfer is one-dimensional since there is thermal symmetry about
the center line and no change in the axial direction.
3 Thermal conductivity is constant.
constant
4 Heat generation in the heater is uniform

Properties The thermal conductivity


y is given
g to be k = 20 W/m⋅°C.

Analysis The resistance heater converts electric energy into heat at a


rate of 2 kW. The rate of heat generation per unit volume of the wire is
Q& gen Q& gen 2000 W
g& = = = = 1.455 × 10 8 W/m 3
V wire πro 2 L π (0.0025 m) 2 (0.7 m)
The center temperature of the wire is:

g&ro 2 (1.455 × 10 8 W/m 3 )(0.0025 m) 2


To = T s + = 110°C + = 121.4°C
4k 4(20 W/m.°C)
Analysis This insulated plate whose thickness is L is equivalent to one-
half of an uninsulated plate whose thickness is 2L since the midplane of
the uninsulated plate can be treated as insulated surface. The highest
temperature will occur at the insulated surface while the lowest
temperature will occur at the surface which is exposed to the
environment. Note that L in the following relations is the full thickness of
the given plate since the insulated side represents the center surface of a
plate whose thickness is doubled. The desired values are determined
directly from

g&L (2 × 10 5 W/m 3 )(0.05 m)


T s = T∞ + = 25°C + 2
= 252.3
252 3 °C
h 44 W/m .°C

g&L2 (2 × 10 5 W/m 3 )(0.05 m) 2


To = T s + = 252.3°C + = 254.5 °C
2k 2(111 W/m.°C)
Variable Thermal Conductivity,
Conductivity k(T)
• The thermal conductivityy of a
material, in general, varies with
temperature.
• An average value
l for the
h
thermal conductivity is
commonly used when the
variation is mild.
• This is also common practice
for other temperature-
dependent properties such as
the density and specific heat
heat.
Variable Thermal Conductivity for
One-Dimensional Cases
When the variation of thermal conductivity with
temperature k(T) is known, the average value of the thermal
conductivity in the temperature range between T1 and T2
can be determined from T

2
k (T )dT
kave =
T1 (2-75)
T2 − T1
The variation in thermal conductivity of a material
with can often be approximated as a linear function
and expressed as
k (T ) = k0 ((1 + β T ) (2-79)

β the temperature coefficient of thermal conductivity.


Variable Thermal Conductivity
• For a plane wall the
temperature varies linearly
during steady one-
dimensional heat conduction
when the thermal conductivity
i constant.
is t t
• This is no longer the case
when
h th
the thermal
th l conductivity
d ti it
changes with temperature
(even linearly).
linearly)
k(T)

T1
T2

L
Properties The thermal conductivity is given to be

k (T ) = k0 (1 + βT )

Analysis
⎛ T +T ⎞
.
k ave = k (Tave ) = k 0 ⎜⎜1 + β 2 1 ⎟⎟
⎝ 2 ⎠
⎛ ((500 + 350)) K ⎞
= (25 W/m
W/ ⋅ K)⎜1 + (8.7 (8 7 × 10 - 4 K -1 ) ⎟
⎝ 2 ⎠
= 34.24 W/m ⋅ K

T −T (500 − 350)K
Q& = k ave A 1 2 = (34.24 W/m ⋅ K)(1.5 m × 0.6 m) = 30,820 W
L 0.15 m

You might also like