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Instructor’s Manual

for

CULTURALLY SENSITIVE
COUNSELING WITH
LATINOS

WITH PATRICIA ARREDONDO, EdD

Manual by
Lawrence Rubin, PhD
Culturally Sensitive Counseling with Latinos Psychotherapy.net

The Instructor’s Manual accompanies the video Culturally Sensitive Instructor’s Manual for
Counseling with Latinos (Institutional/Instructor’s Version). Video available
at www.psychotherapy.net.
CULTURALLY SENSITIVE COUNSELING
Copyright © 2018, Psychotherapy.net, L.L.C. All rights reserved. WITH LATINOS
WITH PATRICIA ARREDONDO, EdD
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Table of Contents
Teaching and Training: Instructors, training directors and facilitators
Tips for Making the Best Use of the Video 4
using the Instructor’s Manual for the video Culturally Sensitive Counseling Summary of Approach 5
with Latinos may reproduce parts of this manual for teaching and training
purposes only. Otherwise, the text of this publication (including the digital Discussion Questions 11
version available to streaming customers) may not be reproduced or shared
Skill-Building Exercises 13
without the prior written permission of the publisher, Psychotherapy.
net. The video Culturally Sensitive Counseling with Latinos (Institutional/ Reaction Paper for Classes and Training 15
Instructor’s Version) is licensed for group training and teaching purposes.
Broadcasting or transmission of this video via Internet, video conferencing, Complete Transcript 16
streaming, distance learning courses or other means is prohibited without Video Credits 42
the prior written permission of the publisher.
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About the Contributors 44
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Tips for Making the Best Use of the Summary of Approach


Video Dr. Patricia Arredondo on Considerations and Multiple
Perspectives to Inform Practice
My approach to working with Latinx individuals is both similar and of
1. USE THE TRANSCRIPTS course a little different than my work with all other clients. I am motivated
Make notes in the video Transcript for future reference; the next time to a) find the common denominators between us, and of course, build
you show the video you will have them available. Highlight or notate key rapport; b) learn about the individual’s development and critical experiences
moments in the video to better facilitate discussion during and after the across the lifespan—significant milestones; c) build upon their strengths to
video. Streaming customers can make use of the “clips” function to choose problem-solve, affirm their strengths, identify emotions that empower and/
excerpts for teaching purposes. or block their progress, and hold them accountable; d) introduce relevant
2. FACILITATE DISCUSSION psychoeducational practices and resources to support the client’s progress; e)
Pause the video at different points to elicit viewers’ observations and reactions work from a place of authenticity.
to the concepts presented. The Discussion Questions section provides ideas Getting Started
about key points that can stimulate rich discussions and learning.
Initially with all clients, I inquire about previous experiences with
3. ENCOURAGE SHARING OF OPINIONS psychotherapy, individuals they know who may have been in counseling/
Encourage viewers to voice their opinions. What are viewers’ impressions of therapy, and how they got to me. This is a question I raise with all clients,
what is presented in the interview? not just Latinxs. If someone seems to struggle with the English language, I
will ask if they prefer to speak in Spanish since I am bilingual. But I also tell
4. CONDUCT SKILL BUILDING EXERCISES
them that whatever is most comfortable for them is fine with me. Once this is
The Skill Building Exercises section guides you through exercises you can
clarified, I move on to invite them to share why they are seeking counseling.
assign to your students in the classroom or training session.
Rapport-building with Latinx clients is critical to a positive experience, one
5. SUGGEST READINGS TO ENRICH VIDEO MATERIAL that ensures that the client will return for a second session. In the Latinx
Assign readings from Related Websites, Videos and Further Reading prior community, especially perhaps among individuals who are first and second
to or after viewing. generation, counseling may be seen as being for “crazy” people. There may
also be a strong message about keeping family and personal matters private. I
6. ASSIGN A REACTION PAPER
recognize this from my own upbringing.
See suggestions in the Reaction Paper section.
My orientation to psychotherapy has been primarily psychodynamic and
cognitive behavioral. While these may seem like opposite theoretical
approaches, I place a value on the client’s history and past relationships and
events that may be unresolved and affecting them in the here-and-now.
Erikson’s psychohistorical approach readily fits into my focus on the client’s
narrative illuminating cultural background and its role in the person’s
identity development.
Two techniques I enjoy using early on are the genogram and lifeline drawings.
These allow for a faster engagement for client and also for a more immediate
contextual understanding of the client for me. I also have a few key terms
to elicit Latinx clients’ explanations about their situation and how they are
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feeling. Some keywords include stress, confusion, sad (depressed) and feeling be humble, and not to brag; this is particularly true for women. I want
alone. In Spanish, related terms are: “No tengo animo”, synonymous with Marta to recognize her accomplishments as a mother, daughter, and
having low energy or feeling depressed, “Estres”, and “estoy confundida/o” or professional. In turn, when we role-played, I wanted her to be able to
I am confused. commend her mother on her accomplishments as well.
Latinx-sensitive Counseling Practices 4. The situational and contextual interpretations with Marta relate to
reviewing with her the crossroads in her life and her current realities.
Drawing from my co-authored text, Culturally Responsive Counseling with
The situational context surrounds her decision about the doctoral
Latinas/os (Arredondo, Gallardo-Cooper, Delgado-Romero and Zapata,
program in Georgia and leaving her mother. At the same time, we
2014), I recommend the following Latinx-sensitive counseling approaches:
learn that while the mother can live with another daughter, Marta’s
• Utilization of dynamic multidimensional perspectives conflicting emotions about family obligation as the oldest daughter play
a continuing role in their dynamic.
• Integration of culture and therapeutic structures (as I mentioned
always consider context when I apply a psychodynamic or CBT 5. In the session, there was no attention to spirituality and religion. It could
framework) be that in another session I could inquire about self-care and learn about
the role of spirituality and religion for her.
• Application of strengths-based models
6. Addressing social justice principles begins with me the, therapist. I must
• Consideration of situational and contextual interpretations
be mindful of the inequities that Marta has likely experienced as a Latinx
• Inclusion of spirituality and healing practices, when appropriate immigrant woman in the U.S., as a single mother, and as the primary
caretaker for her mother. There are likely systems she has dealt with that
• Implementation of social justice principles created barriers to services for a range of reasons. How she managed
I hope all these practices were evident in my counseling session with Marta, the barriers could be another opportunity to affirm her. Other ways to
but I will elaborate. address social justice in therapy could be as follows: a) Asking Marta
to discuss inequities she has faced and transcended as a Latinx woman;
1. I considered her family history, family separation when leaving b) Inquiring how, from her home country, she and her family engaged
Guatemala, and the adaptability of both her and her mother in the in social justice activism; c) Learning about the connection within her
U.S. Marta is a bilingual, bicultural, educated professional woman and doctoral education between her culture and a social justice orientation.
mother. She is more than her immigrant identity status (See Dimensions
of Personal Identity model (p 10) to get a glimpse of a holistic view of A few caveats about Latinx heterogeneity are provided herein:
Marta). 1. When working with Latinx clients, in the first session I determine
2. Because Marta is a highly educated woman with achievements, she their ethnicity (i.e., Mexican-American, Puerto Rican, Dominican). If
is able to describe her challenges with the decision about moving to someone says, “I am Mexican”, my follow-up question is, “Where in
Georgia for her doctoral program. She speaks English fluently but also Mexico were you born?” Mexican signals someone was born in Mexico,
connects with Spanish language terms. I follow the psychodynamic Mexican-American signals the individual was born in the U.S.
approach, gathering historical context to see the dynamics that may 2. I use the Dimensions of Professional Identity model to become more
be pushing “current buttons.” What comes up is her cultural gender aware of the client’s intersecting identities. This is also a tool for the
socialization as the oldest daughter. The messages are ones that are client to affirm themselves.
playing out in her dilemma as are her feelings of guilt for possibly
“abandoning” her mother. 3. I allow time for “plática” or small talk, to help put a client at ease. With
non-college student clients, “plática” may be a helpful warm-up.
3. I find affirming an individual’s strengths goes a long way to enhancing
the person’s sense of self-efficacy. Latinx people generally are taught to
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4. Adult clients have asked me about my background because they know I constellation helps me better appreciate the interplay of culture, context,
am Latina. I have always shared my ethnic heritage and that I was born and geographic location.
in the U.S. When asked if I have children, I simply say “yes”. For women
• There are culture-specific values to keep in mind that focus on the
in particular, having children can be a common denominator.
importance of relationships for Latinx people and are often part of
5. When working with college students who are struggling to balance the socialization process. These include personalismo, familismo,
responsibilities such as needing to work, go to school, and help out respeto, orgullo (pride) and lealtad (loyalty). Other terms that could be
family on the weekend, I may share with them that I faced similar interpersonal barriers are about verguenza (shame), culpa (guilt), or falta
dilemmas as a first-generation college student. Students who leave home de respeto (being disrespectful).
for college often carry guilt and a burden to achieve so they will not
• With generational changes, mixed-ethnic families, mixed status families
disappoint their families. Often these stressors are in addition to feeling
(some U.S. citizens, some undocumented) colorism, and low-income
homesick.
status, therapists need to check out their assumptions and stereotypes.
6. With professional Latinas who may be more verbal, like Marta in the
• The U.S. behavior towards Latinx persons has been historically
video, I invite more self-analysis. As I said before, I invite these clients to
disrespectful. Mass deportations of Mexican heritage persons in
more fully express themselves with some prompts along the way.
1931, 60% who were U.S. citizens, was done because Mexican people
7. Many Latinx clients and clients from other ethnic background have were taking U.S. jobs. This is a recurring theme in 2018. Thus, Latinx
tapes in their head that may be barriers to feeling good about themselves individuals and families have clouds of prejudice, discrimination, and
and/or decisions they have made. If an individual was reared in a microaggressions to face, often daily. This is relevant socio-political
more traditional home, there may be a structure that was followed for context for the therapist. Learning about ICE, Homeland Security, and
female and male behavior. These cultural norms for women may be other federal agencies and policies that affect immigrants is necessary for
still restricting their decisions as adults. When I recognize that tapes therapists.
are interfering with the client’s goals and confusions, I move to a CBT
• Again, be mindful of the strengths that clients bring, many have faced
approach, involving the work of David Burns in Feeling Good (1984). I
multiple adversities.
engage clients in identifying the “dysfunctional thoughts” that may be
holding them back. Generally, there are cultural messages from family
that a daughter can go to school but must not neglect her family. There
Bibliography
may be guilt-laden messages about how much the daughter and son are
needed. Arredondo, P., Gallardo-Cooper, M., & Delgado-Romero, E. A., Zapata, A. L.
(2014). Culturally responsive situational counseling with Latinos. Alexandria,
8. The gender-related terms of marianismo, machismo, and caballerismo
VA: American Counseling Association.
are introduced in the video. Marianismo is discussed in the Maria
Paradox (Gil & Vazquez, 1997). The Ten Commandments of Marianismo Burns, D. (1984/2008). Feeling good. New York: Harper
are outlined, reminding women of many “no’s” or “shoulds.” The
true meaning of machismo is a reminder for men to live up to Gil, R. H. & Vazquez, M.I. (1996). The María paradox. New York: Perigree
the responsibility of being family caretakers, to be reliable men. Books.
Cabellerismo relates to chivalry and comes from the term horse (caballo).
In the “old” days, chivalry was normative.
• Latinx clients may arrive with individual concerns that often relate
to or are informed by their family relationships and beliefs about
“familia.” Thinking of the individual as part of an interdependent family
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Discussion Questions
Professors, training directors, and facilitators may use some or all of these
discussion questions, depending on what aspects of the video are most
relevant to the group.

1. In contemporary society, counselors are more and more likely to


encounter Latino populations, particularly in urban areas, due to both
immigration and relocation. What changes in your own clinical practice
have you noticed related to this demographic shift? What changes have
you made in in your clinical and/or educational roles to address this
change?
2. What are some of your own assumptions about Latinos? Where do these
assumptions come from? How have they been reinforced by the media
or your experience? In what ways have these assumptions impacted your
clinical work with this population?
4. Arredondo suggests that when working with Latino clients we be curious
about geographic origin in our assessment and interviewing. What other
areas of inquiry do you think are important when working with this
population?
5. Arredondo reminds us that the Latino culture is very structured and rule-
governed, particularly with adolescents who are struggling for identity
and connection. If you’ve worked with Latino clients, what have you
noticed in terms of cultural and family norms? How have they impacted
your work with adolescent clients? In what way did your clients’
relationships, rules and family direct your intervention with them?
6. Arredondo maintains that we must “tap the belief systems” of our Latino
clients to build connections and intervene therapeutically. She recalled
clients who prayed in session and the case of a family with an epileptic
    child who, with her support, visited a “curandero” (healer). If you’ve
  worked with Latino clients, have you had experiences in this work that
challenged your own religious beliefs and values? How did you address
them in session? Outside of session?
7. During the early part of Arredondo’s interview with Marta we see the
importance of understanding the relationship between gender and
prescribed family roles. How and when would you explore gender-
driven family roles and obligations with Latino clients in therapy? What
questions are important to ask both male and female clients in this
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regard? Can you remember a particular therapeutic moment when doing


so changed the course of the session or your work with a particular Skill-Building Exercises
client?
Introduction
8. As the therapeutic conversation deepens around family dynamics and how
they impact the client’s impending relocation, Arredondo suggests a After watching this video, assign groups to role-play a counseling session
role-play. What do you think is the importance of role-play in therapy? fashioned around the content of the issues that were presented by Arredondo.
Did that exercise have its intended impact or not and if so, how and why? Or, construct a scenario that is within the bounds of your own day-to-day
experience, but not overly complex. A primary goal is that participants,
9. At the end of the role-play exercise, Arredondo debriefs Marta by reviewing whether psychotherapist, client, or another character, can learn from the
the content, process and impact of the exercise they just completed. experience. More specifically, that by taking turns each participant will have the
What value do you see in this debriefing? Did it move the therapy along? opportunity to practice their clinical skill development.
If so, in what way? If not, how could the debriefing have been conducted
Instructions
differently? How have you use debriefing in your own therapeutic work?
Organize participants into dyads consisting of a psychotherapist and a client. If
10. During the post-therapy debriefing between Yalom and Arredondo, there
time permits, rotate so that each person has a chance to play both roles. The key
is a discussion of the timing and purpose of the various interventions.
point here is not to try to resolve the client’s presenting issue. Instead, it is to use
Would you have concerns about revealing errors you might have this role-play to practice and consolidate some of the information and skills you
made? Can you think of a particular intervention you tried and how it observed by watching Arredondo speak with Yalom and/or work with Marta.
was received by your colleagues or your supervisor? What additional
resources have you sought out to strengthen your therapeutic skills? One person will start out as the therapist, and the other participant will role-
play the client. One option is to base the role-play on the client his video. If you
do this, try not to follow the sequence of interactions in the session. Rather,
use the client and situation as a jumping off point and allow the role-play to
develop spontaneously. Alternatively, come up with your own scenario based on
a client with whom you have briefly worked, one you know well or a completely
fictional client. Depending on the level of skill of the participants, you can
decide in advance whether to focus on the client’s presenting issue or else allow
the therapist to try to figure this out.
Below are a few suggested scenarios that can be played out in this exercise.
Please feel free to use one or a few of these, or as noted above, choose one from
your own experience:
• A Latino high school senior who received an athletic scholarship to study
and play ball at an out-of-state college is struggling with guilt over leaving
his family (grandmother, mother and younger brother).
• A 30-year-old unmarried Latina professional woman wants to share with
her first generation Mexican-American parents that she is choosing to
pursue her career rather than marry and have children.
• A 50-year-old divorced Latino man without children has recently been
dating a man for two years and wants to finally share this with his older
brother and friends.

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Debriefing
Reaction Paper for Classes and
After the role plays, have the groups come together to discuss their experiences
and what the participants learned about using the information from the video
with Arredondo. Invite the clients and then the therapists to talk about what
Training
it was like to role-play their respective characters and how they felt about the Assignment: Complete this reaction paper and return it by the date noted by
process. Do they understand the essence of the issues and challenges of the roles the facilitator.
they portrayed? What worked and didn’t work for them during the session?
What did they find most challenging about this intervention? Suggestions for viewers: Take notes on and respond to each of the questions
below while viewing the video and complete the reaction paper afterwards.
Immediately after the role plays, take a few minutes during which each of the
participants either writes down or discusses their thoughts about the process, Length and style: This is meant to be a brief and concise reaction paper that
both when they were in role as the psychotherapist and when they were in any you write soon after watching the video-we want your ideas and reactions.
of the other roles. Your paper should be between 2-4 double-spaced pages. DO NOT simply
provide a full synopsis of the video.
Advanced Option
An alternative is to do this role-play as a 15-minute exercise based upon one
What to write
of the above scenarios (or one of your own) in front of the whole group. One Respond to the following questions in your reaction paper:
participant will be the therapist, one a Latino client and the third a supervisor
1. Key points: What important points did you learn in watching Patricia
observing the session from behind a fictitious one-way mirror. The rest of the
group can observe, acting as the advising or reflecting team to the therapist. Arredondo speak with Victor Yalom and work with her client? What stands
At any point during the session, the therapist or supervisor can take a few out most to you about how she worked with the client? Did you get a solid
minutes to get feedback from the observation team and bring it back into the sense of the concepts and techniques, and the flow of the interventions in the
session with the client. Perhaps a team member can jump in with appropriate demonstrated case? Why or why not?
or alternate interventions. Other observers may jump in if the therapist or 2. What I found most helpful: As a counselor/therapist, what was the
supervisor get stuck. Follow up with the discussion on what participants most beneficial to you about the ideas and/or techniques presented? What
learned about the challenges of working with the clients around these issues.
specific tips or perspectives did you find helpful and useful for your own
clinical work? What about the way she worked challenged you to think about
something in a new way?
3. What does not make sense: Which of the ideas or interventions presented
did not make sense to you? Did anything push your buttons or bring about a
sense of discomfort or resistance in you, or just not fit with your own style of
working?
4. How I would do it differently: What might you do differently from
Arredondo when assessing or treating a Latino client? Be specific about what
different models, interventions or techniques you might apply.

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Complete Transcript the US. So the therapist or counselor would really need to realize that maybe
some of the-- let’s say they’re working at a college counseling center-- that
VICTOR YALOM: Hello, I’m Victor Yalom, and I’m here today with Patricia they may encounter Latina/Latino students who don’t speak Spanish. OK, so
Arredondo. She’s a psychologist with a particular expertise in multicultural they may make an assumption because they have this last name of Gonzalez
counseling and, specifically, with counseling Latinas. Welcome. or Lopez that they are first-generation immigrants. And in fact, they may be,
but maybe they came as kids and they don’t speak Spanish because they’ve
PATRICIA ARREDONDO: Gracias, Victor. Buenas tardes. gone to school here, this is their country, or they were born here. And so they
YALOM: Buenas tardes. So you’ve had a long and illustrious career as don’t-- not everyone speaks Spanish. That’s number one.
a clinician, as an administrator in higher ed. You were president of the YALOM: So it sounds like determining where they are in that immigration
American Counseling Association, and you’ve written numerous texts cycle-- are they first generation that came to this country? And if so, at what
and articles in the field. But today, I really want to talk specifically about age? Or are they third generation?
multicultural counseling and your work with counseling Latinos and Latinas.
ARREDONDO: Absolutely. Absolutely.
And so let’s start there. I think many therapists, counselors today, are working
with a more diverse population, which is reflecting the diversity of our YALOM: And that’s quite a different sense of identity.
country. And obviously, certain parts of the country have more diversity than ARREDONDO: That’s exactly what I was going to say. I think that sense
others. of identity is different because of one’s immigration status or being born
But Latinos are certainly a fast-growing segment of our population. And so here. And clearly, if someone was born here, they may consider themselves
what I want to find out from you is, I guess, first, what are some things that bicultural-- and that they know what it’s like to grow up in the states, but
clinicians, especially therapists or counselors who are not Latino and maybe they may still have family who maintain traditions, maybe their parents still
don’t have a rich knowledge base of working with that population-- what are speak Spanish, or their grandparents. So they’re living this kind of bicultural
some of the things that they need to know or are helpful for them to know in experience, which can have an effect on your identity-- that’s number one.
working with this population? Number two, with identity-- I mean, we’re living in a society right now
ARREDONDO: You’re absolutely correct. I think any clinician will probably that, social politically, is very negative to anyone who’s considered Latino.
find themselves being close to a Latino population in the United States OK? And you could be Puerto Rican. You could be Colombian or Mexican-
because of the real diaspora of not only immigrant groups but people who American. But the rhetoric is not a positive rhetoric. And that has a way
move now because of economic reasons and the likelihood-- and I was going of affecting how these young people see themselves, or working people see
to say particularly in urban areas where a therapist, a counselor, psychologist themselves, or professionals.
working in an agency, a college counseling center-- is going to see people of I have to say, I get frustrated when I hear negativity about Latinos and how
Latino/Latina heritage. I guess several of the things, to come to your question, we’re taking everything that’s in this country. And so I can only look at that
that need to be taken into account is the fact that probably the largest through the eyes of some of the younger folks who are still in their process of
percentage of Latinos today are born in the United States. And I would say sorting out their identity. You know, who do I want to be? How am I going to
that most people would think that every Latina/Latino is an immigrant. be acceptable?
YALOM: Well, maybe not every, but-- And then, you have the issue in terms of identity-- just to talk about color. I
ARREDONDO: But perhaps a larger percentage are immigrants. mean, the color range among Latinos is something that also has an effect on
how individuals are seen or perceived-- where you have the Latinos from the
YALOM: Right. Yeah, yeah. Caribbean, let’s say-- where there’s a strong presence, historically, of slavery.
ARREDONDO: Well, when you look at the actual percentage of college- And so you may have folks in the same family who are white or who look
going Latinos, they were born in the United States. The Dreamers, we know, more, visibly, African-American. You have that colorism, as we call it, which
weren’t born in the United States. But a larger percentage are now born in is part of the identity. We’re all mestizos. And probably, you know, again, a
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therapist wouldn’t think about that, but we’re all biracial, actually, by birth Dominican Republic, and so forth. So a little girl stood up, and she-- I asked,
because of the colonization that took place. you have a question? She stood up, and she said, were you ever embarrassed
YALOM: From Spain and Portugal. about being Mexican?

ARREDONDO: From Spain, and Portugal to, yeah, what’s today, Mexico, And it was such a powerful statement. And so I asked her, what do you mean?
Central America, Latin America. And she was visibly black-- African-American looking-- but she spoke to
me in Spanish. I knew she was either Puerto Rican or Dominican. And she
YALOM: When you say mestizo, you’re saying mixed blood from the original said, well, oftentimes I don’t feel like I belong here. We almost had this little
European and the natives. counseling session together. And why? Well, because I’m so dark. And she
ARREDONDO: --Native people. And then, you have people who have-- you really just said it. And that makes me ashamed sometimes. So then I said to
have the native people-- the indigenous, and then you also have the African her, yes, when I was about your age, I was embarrassed about being Mexican-
settlements-- particularly, there’s a number of countries where African slaves American-- and just talked that through because it’s an adolescent issue--
were brought and you see that in the color of the people. And sometimes when you look at yourself in terms of your peers and you’re going to school
folks are surprised because they’re speaking Spanish and they look African- here.
American. But that’s, again, part of the history. So sometimes I think that can YALOM: Yeah. And you were born in this country in Ohio?
be confusing to a therapist who looks at someone and doesn’t realize this kind
of history of the mestizo-- the slavery in Mexico, and Latin America, and the ARREDONDO: In Ohio, right.
Caribbeans. And so that has a way of, I think, playing out, too, in terms of YALOM: And so was where you grew up-- were there not a lot of Latinos
identity. there?
YALOM: And so say a little bit more about the colorism that you referred to. ARREDONDO: There weren’t. There was a community of people who had
ARREDONDO: Right. I think even among Latinos, we haven’t talked come from Mexico to work in the steel mill. But that was pretty small. And
about that a whole lot-- about our African roots. And so now, there are more it was all working class. So the immigrants were working class. My mom was
conference presentations on colorism among Latinos. born in this country, but she also was the daughter of immigrants, and they
were working class people, as well. My father worked in the steel mill.
YALOM: And what does colorism mean?
And then when the Puerto Ricans came to Lorain, they were brought in
ARREDONDO: It means that we have this spectrum of color among us, as as part of an agreement between Puerto Rico and the States, because they
Latinx people. And that there’s also discrimination within the culture-- that needed employees to work in some of the industry in the Great Lakes, but
there are ways that we also kind of play out this internalized racism. And so particularly Lorain where I was. We had an influx of Puerto Ricans and,
that’s something terribly important for a therapist to pay attention to. again, a lot of misunderstanding-- because they spoke Spanish differently.
YALOM: So when you say there’s discrimination, are lighter skins treated They looked different than the Mexicans.
differently than darker skins? Mexicans look more dark and maybe indigenous, and the Puerto Ricans
ARREDONDO: It can be. Yeah. It can be. Yeah. I mean there is research that spanned this colorism-- some were more African-American looking, others
shows that, in general, it’s more around African-Americans that people who were white with blue eyes. I remember my best friend in school was a green-
are lighter skinned actually are treated better or get a job more quickly than eyed, blonde Puerto Rican girl. And it’s like, OK, you know-- so that kind
someone who is visibly dark. And I would say the same thing with Latinos. of misunderstanding, though, can be-- can occur in counseling, because I
But I think that internalized racism is something that has to also be explored think we have a stereotype of what a Latino or Latina looks like. And it’s not a
when we’re talking about identity. blonde, blue-eyed, green-eyed person.
I can remember a number of years ago, I was giving a lecture in a middle YALOM: So I think my sense is-- a general principle for counseling or
school in Boston. And we’re talking about being-- where’s everyone from, therapy is-- you want to try and understand your clients, understand their

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world view, know something about where they came from and what their that assumption, whereas if you grew up-- were born here-- if you’re first
culture is. And we’re working-- whether that’s a European origin white generation or third generation, we may have had a very different world view. I
client-- everyone has such a different story-- background that we want to guess what I’m asking-- you think it’s important-- like in a first session-- kind
always try and do that. But specifically in terms of Latinas, you’re talking of moving on to some clinical issues. Do I need to find that out right away?
about some of the things to know-- to kind of be informed, and to be attuned ARREDONDO: You know, I really think that understanding where someone
to and to know maybe some things to ask about. So you’ve mentioned identity, came-- where someone grew up is really an important factor for me. I’ve
immigration-- what are some other things that you want to, at least, find out always looked at that, regardless of who my client is.
about? Let’s start there.
YALOM: Sure.
ARREDONDO: You know, and you mentioned immigration and, then of
course, the nonimmigration-- because people will always be surprised when ARREDONDO: OK. That’s one. Number two, I think we’ve talked a lot
I say I’m from Lorain, Ohio. And so I think origins are really an important that-- and certainly for Latinos, family is important. All right. And if you’re
conversation piece-- geographic location-- because that geographic location working with someone who’s never been to counseling and who might be
has provided some kind of a socialization for that Latino person. a little bit embarrassed about talking about the issues or what brings them
there, and that seems like it’s kind of stalling. I would say, well, tell me about
YALOM: So I’m going to know immediately-- if I just see you on the street, your family-- and your mom, your dad, your siblings-- tell me about them.
and I see you’re not white, right-- and you know, I may think you’re Latino. And that’s easier sometimes to talk about-- the others than about myself.
But I don’t know anything. I may assume you’re an immigrant, or you could
be from Chile, or you could be from anywhere. But knowing that you were But you get an idea about how the family-- who the family is-- maybe the
born in this country and grew up in Ohio, that’s going to tell me a lot already. importance of family to that individual who’s there. Because I can tell you
almost every counseling situation I’ve had with a Latina or Latino family--
ARREDONDO: Also, a different cultural context than someone who grew dynamics always come up. In particular in terms of responsibility-- a sense of
up in Texas on the border or someone who grew up in Michigan and their responsibility, a sense of duty. I sometimes pull it out, but they talk about it in
parents were agricultural workers-- or again, someone who grew up in a way that it’s embedded in their dilemma.
Florida, where you have a higher percentage of people of Cuban heritage and
now Puerto Rican. So yeah, I think people’s geographic location really has YALOM: It’s primal.
a way of socializing us as well, and that lived experience for Latinos does ARREDONDO: It’s absolutely primal-- so family system. And even though
introduce us to different kinds of value sets or beliefs about other people. we may have individuals here who are, let’s say, third generation-- they may
YALOM: Yeah. Yeah. still be coming from a-- it’s a very structured culture. The Latino culture is
very structured, and it’s very roles oriented.
ARREDONDO: So I mean, if you grew up in an enclave that was primarily,
let’s say, Puerto Rican, that that’s been a strong influence on the way you see And that, I think, creates some dilemma for younger people who want to
other-- let’s say you see other Latino groups. kind of strike out on their own, but they’ve heard these rules. And your
grandmother did this, and your grandfather did that. And here we are trying
YALOM: So would you say-- well, let me think about it-- so if I’m meeting a to do this for you, and you’re kind of falling out of the rails of the family. So
client who’s white or Euro-American, I may ask them, at some point, where there is, unfortunately, at times guilt that operates.
they grew up, but it may not feel-- I may not even ask that in the first session.
They may come with some specific relationship problem or work problem, and YALOM: Well, we’re going to see a nice example of that in a few minutes.
we delve right into that. Because I make certain assumptions. They may be We’re going to see you doing a counseling session with a young woman who
wrong. is struggling with some of these issues. So we’ll get to that in a bit. So one
of the challenges you know-- I know people teaching multicultural courses
But you know, I may have a sense we have some shared values in some sense always seems to come up-- like, OK, so we want to learn, and I want to learn
or shared experiences, whether they grew up in Nebraska, or Ohio, or upstate from you. Because I know you have a wealth of information about this broad
New York, you know? I may be wrong, but I think it’s easy to kind of make
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Latino/Latina culture, which, as you’re describing, is very diverse in and of And I think that’s something that also has to be explored in working with
itself. But there are some things to know. Latino clients. It could be that religion is still an important part of their
On the other hand, we don’t want to fall into the trap of saying-- kind of family experience or their own experience. I’ve worked with clients over the
maybe the early teachings of multiculturalism. Well, you know, Chinese- years who not only wanted to speak in Spanish but also wanted to pray.
Americans are like this; Chileans are like this. You know, it’s not-- so how do YALOM: In session?
we-- and I think we’ll just to take the risk to do it-- how do we acquire some ARREDONDO: In session. And I think that’s something that maybe younger
general knowledge that may be useful with the caveat that we’re not being students-- maybe younger people wouldn’t-- but also not to close that off.
overly simplistic. We don’t want to stereotype and say all Latinos are like this. And if they’re Catholic, there may be, again, depending on what group it is--
But to ignore the difference is also not helpful and not really respectful. if it’s Puerto Rican or Mexican-- but if they’re of Mexican heritage, there’s
ARREDONDO: Well, let’s talk about a couple of things that this brings up for a particular saints and the Virgen de Guadelupe that people might be very
me. And we can talk about gender. We can talk about religion and spirituality. endeared to.
And just the whole value set of-- and maybe sometimes I think that when we So those are, I think, aspects of a person’s experience that could be explored,
get into the Latinos are like these or Chinese people are like that, we do kind whether, again-- the role of religion, the role of spirituality. Because there’s
of move in those directions. still an emphasis in-- even here in some of the parts of the United States-- of
However, I think there is something to be said for some macro-level relying on healers. I remember a case I had many years ago where the young
comments. Latinos, generally, are very relational. It’s a highly relational girl had epilepsy. And I was asked whether I could see her and I said, well,
interdependent culture. That’s kind of across the board. And so there is an what’s the story? Well, she had this epileptic fit. We took her to a doctor, and
expectation of dependency on one another. That’s why I said earlier that sense nothing’s happening. So I said to the parents, well, is there someone else that
of responsibility-- family loyalty-- and that transcends ages. perhaps she could see? Well, they ended up taking her to a healer--
YALOM: And I think it is fair to say-- and again, with the risk of YALOM: A curandero?
overgeneralizing-- but Euro-American culture is-- if you look at all the ARREDONDO: A curandero. Right. Now they-- even though they had
cultures across the world-- we’re certainly on one end of the spectrum of taken her to a doctor-- a Western doctor-- and given her all of what seemed
being very individualistic. That’s the value of the pioneers, and the ranchers, relevant-- she was about six or seven-- they were convinced that what had
and the cowboys, and the settlers. Of course we value families, and we value happened was some-- they were from El Salvador, so this was the late ‘80s.
relationships. And remember the Civil War in El Salvador, and people had really been
ARREDONDO: That’s right. separated politically. They were sure that someone had given her the evil eye.
YALOM: But what I hear you saying is, in comparison, there’s-- and if we’re So the belief system-- I guess what I’m coming back to, Victor, is the belief
sitting with a client, we should really keep that in the front of our mind-- that system is something that you have to tap. Why do you believe that’s the case?
the way they think of themselves is in relationship and interdependent. I mean, with the client. Because sometimes those beliefs come down through
ARREDONDO: Interdependent and it’s also a culture that’s very generations.
hierarchical. I think that still plays out where you have an expectation of YALOM: And I imagine if you convey, whether directly or, more likely
respect up. And your parents and the grandparents can be all friendly-- perhaps, nonverbally-- being dismissive or not even asking about it--
and there’s a-- white people get together-- but I see it all the time in these ARREDONDO: Skeptical.
social settings is that there’s still that respect that’s brought to the person
who is older-- respect for authorities. If people are churchgoing and, again, YALOM: --then that’s going to convey to the client that there’s no room in the
depending on how religious the family is, there is an enormous amount of therapy to talk about it. We want the therapy to be an open place for them to
power and respect given to the religious leaders. talk about anything that concerns them. And if religion is an important part
of their life and we give them some subtle cue that, well, we don’t really deal
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with religion here-- we’re going to shut off a big part of them. Is that correct? YALOM: Obviously, lesbians can have children.
ARREDONDO: Oh, absolutely. I would say just entertain the conversation. ARREDONDO: They can, but I mean, you understand the stereotype about
It doesn’t mean you have to know what it’s like to be Catholic, or evangelical, that.
or another one of those-- the dominant faiths right now. But creating that YALOM: Yeah.
space and actually inviting the client to, tell me more about that-- you know, I
didn’t-- this is something new for me. Can you tell me more about that? ARREDONDO: Although, the families have become more and more open
to their children who are gay or lesbian. Trans is another topic, but gay and
YALOM: All right, so we can’t go into too much depth with any of these talks. lesbian is more open. But there are certain rules. You don’t talk outside of the
But you mentioned-- we talked a little bit about immigration, identity-- you home about issues at the home.
were talking about religion, family structure, authority, and you mentioned
gender. What is it helpful for therapists to know about that in Latino culture? YALOM: So how does that impact therapy?
ARREDONDO: And gender socialization is very powerful in the culture. ARREDONDO: See that’s why in therapy, yeah, you know, a therapist
And ironically, it’s powerful throughout all cultures, as we know. knowing that can say to a client, gee, Victor, know that this might be hard
for you to come and talk to me about because you really are talking outside
YALOM: Of course. of home-- is that is that something that is a rule you learned? I understand.
ARREDONDO: But looking at it more specifically within the Latino family, You could say I understand that it’s not acceptable, oftentimes, to talk about
the Latino culture, there’s a real strong intersection between the gender business. That’s the family outside of the house. How’s that for you?
socialization and religion. So if we look, historically, at this-- you know, the YALOM: How’s that for you here?
way religion has played a strong role in formation of people. And at that
time, of course, it was Catholicism-- and, you know, what women could or ARREDONDO: How’s that for you here to talk to me, a stranger? And then,
couldn’t do or how they were perceived. I mean, that’s a whole other history you can get into that conversation. He might say-- that person might say, or
story. However, we do have two important concepts that are part of the Latino she might say, well, actually, it’s easier to talk to you because there’s no one
discussion, and it’s marianismo and machismo. at home I can talk to about this, which is often the case-- often the case. That
opens a space.
YALOM: I’ve heard of machismo.
YALOM: I’m just wondering how do you see that play out? If the therapist is
ARREDONDO: OK, marianismo is a very interesting concept. It really is not Latino-- and I’m sure it varies obviously, but is there some times when
about girls being taught to live up to the image of the Virgin Mary-- OK, so maybe they find it easier to talk to someone outside their community?
you’ve got the word Maria in there. So marianismo-- you learn all the rules of
what it is to be a good woman in the image of the Virgin Mary. ARREDONDO: Yes, that’s a very good question. I think that often is the
case. Again, if you’re a highly relational therapist and you know how to invite
YALOM: Wow. That’s a big task. the individual in-- and yes, they may feel like you will judge them less. That
ARREDONDO: That’s pretty powerful. So of course, one of the most sometimes when you work with a Latino therapist, that they already know
important roles for a woman, in Latino culture, is to be a mother. So today, what it’s like to be Latino or Latina.
you have a lot of women who are single, especially if they go to school-- or So they might call you out on stuff, and so that embarrassment might be
women who are lesbians in same-sex relationships, or women who get higher. I remember having clients who said that to me-- that even though
divorced. So the norms, with respect to marianismo, are a little bit on their I was a Latina, there were ways they could relate to me, that they also were
head. uncomfortable.
YALOM: How so? YALOM: Yeah. I know you’ve written-- and we talked about this before in
ARREDONDO: Well, because you’re not fulfilling your role to be a mother, terms of issues around confidentiality with that.
first of all, if you are a lesbian or if you don’t have children. And so-- ARREDONDO: Reassurance-- I mean, like you would with anyone-- but
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I think the reassurance with a client who’s never been to therapy-- and that we have learned about behavior of men. So there is all this language, I
most Latinos have not been to therapy-- and plus being the rules around would say, that’s communicating messages within a Latino family of how to
maintaining privacy-- not talking about yourself or family outside of-- so be-- how to carry yourself, especially outside of the family-- to not bring any
I think that reassurance around confidentiality and dialogue with the shame and embarrassment on the family.
individual about your notes and who gets to see them. You know, if Marta or And so those are some of the struggles, too, for, let’s say, immigrant families
Juan wants to see the notes-- that that’s a possibility-- how you can reassure who have their kids beginning to really acculturate to U.S. norms and
the client. behaviors. And they see that at times it is being not only disrespectful to them
You know, also having worked with single moms who maybe are on but bringing perhaps shame on the family-- things to pay attention to.
assistance-- public assistance. They’re concerned that seeing me would be One more thing is, I would say I’ve always told students to know who is living
a liability and that maybe I would tell the agency that they were there and in the community where you’re doing your work. Because there are different
what was going on for them. So I think-- depending on where the client is populations that settle, let’s say, in Boston when I was living there. The
coming from or how they’re referred and so forth-- I think that reassurance, communities that were most visible who were of Latino heritage were Puerto
especially if they’re immigrants-- Rican, second were Cuban.
YALOM: Yeah, you really want to be very explicit in terms of what the rules So if you’re working with individuals from those populations, why are they
are about confidentiality and about how the mental health system works, there? I mean, how did your family get here? What was the draw? Is it other
what’s going to happen with-- families? When I lived in Chicago, there was a whole community near the
ARREDONDO: All of that. Great Lakes Naval Station of people from Mexico.
YALOM: --your notes. And people said to me, well, you go there, and you think you’re in Mexico.
ARREDONDO: All of that. I just want to come back to the marianismo for a And I said, why? And they said because they all speak Spanish. Some of them
minute. Because one of the messages that is communicated is that men come have never really come out of that community. They haven’t had to. So all
first and women are in the background. their resources are there. A lot of them were working in the service industry
and didn’t need to speak in English.
YALOM: That’s the flip side of it. That’s the machismo.
But their children, of course, were going to school and so forth. But they said
ARREDONDO: And the machismo-- and I’ll talk about that now. But then if you were in touch with the adults and the grandparents that they were still
women are supposed to be long suffering and dutiful. OK, so that’s where the like being back in Mexico. So you want to know who’s there and the status of
roles and the rules come into play. OK, now we know that that doesn’t happen folks.
for everybody, but that’s still a very strong message. For machismo, the true
meaning of machismo is to live up to the responsibility of a man, which is to YALOM: Not only of your client, but the community that they’re in.
take care of your family. So that’s the true meaning. Now that can also be seen ARREDONDO: The community-- the community they’re in. And we haven’t
as a control of your family in a negative way or being controlling of women. talked about documented and undocumented again, which is another matter
That’s often how it’s, I think, portrayed. that comes up when working with Latino clients. You know, you may be
But the true meaning is to live up to your responsibilities as a man. There’s working with an individual in a family where that individual group was born
another term I want to mention, which is caballerismo. Caballerismo, which here, grew up here, but maybe has a sibling who was born in Guatemala or
you’ve probably heard of-- coming from the word “horse,” caballo. So a Mexico and is not here with true documentation-- and the parents.
caballero was a horseman. So caballerismo, again, is all about chivalry and So when you have mixed-status families, too, that’s a big secret. And what
about really knowing the rules of being a man who’s chival, who demonstrates you also hear is people-- Dreamers will say, I didn’t know I wasn’t born here.
chivalry. Because they’ve lived-- as far as they were concerned, they’ve lived in the
So that’s sort of maybe a little bit high-end word, but I think it’s another term states all their lives. But that’s an identity issue.

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YALOM: Yeah, so there’s things to be attuned to that may be forefront in COMMENTARY: Any individual, whether Latinx or from other ethnic
their mind every day in terms of their legal status, for example, or legal backgrounds, is of course always part of a family system, and for Latinxs,
status of someone in their family that’s forefront in their mind every day and familia and family-centeredness are particularly powerful. When clients
something that-- come in for counseling, they are understandably preoccupied with their
ARREDONDO: Absolutely-- tension, stress-- distress. presenting problems or dilemmas. As a clinician, having knowledge of the
family constellation helps us to better understand their dilemma from
YALOM: --you know, that I would never think about or my white friends just their point of view—as it typically is interwoven with complex and often
don’t have to deal with. So it’s important to find out about that. So we’re going conflicting family dynamics. Showing an interest in their familia helps with
to, now, have a chance to see you working with a woman who’s dealing with a establishing a therapeutic allianceand can help provide strategic entry
lot of these issues. She’s making a decision. She wants to go off to get her PhD points for intervention throughout the treatment.
in counseling. And she has a lot of tension and guilt with her mother around
this. So anything you want the viewers to kind of look for, be alert to, as we MARTA: And so I kind of felt a little bit guilty because of the expectation that
watch this session? I’m the oldest and that I should be the one looking after her.

ARREDONDO: Probably looking at all of these ways that responsibility to ARREDONDO: Remind me who else lives with your mom or who else is
family is so paramount and how that continues to transcend, even though close by? I mean, what’s the familia constellation right now?
she’s an accomplished woman with a master’s degree and a single mom. But MARTA: Well, she lives with me. She has lived with me for several years. My
that sense of responsibility is strong-- how she talks about that. sister lives about three hours away from where I live. And she has her family,
YALOM: OK, well, we’ll see. That’s kind of a central thing you’re dealing younger children, and my brother’s still back in Guatemala with his family,
with in the session. So let’s take a look, and then you and I will meet back with grown children, and he has a family of six. So they’re pretty much a little
afterwards and discuss that. bit away from her. And because I’m single now, maybe she feels that I should
be the one looking after her because I don’t have that many responsibilities--
ARREDONDO: Fine. Thanks. so familial responsibilities.
ARREDONDO: Hola, Marta. How are you doing today? ARREDONDO: You don’t have family responsibilities like your siblings?
MARTA: I’m doing better. Better, but still-- you know, I’m still thinking MARTA: Exactly. I have a young son. But for her, it’s like one versus three
about my decisions and what I need to do and not to feel-- trying to find the versus five.
right decision so I don’t feel guilty about moving away or leaving my mother.
ARREDONDO: What about your young son? How does he fit into this
ARREDONDO: Well, we’ve talked about this now for about four sessions, picture? We haven’t talked very much about him.
and you’ve been thinking about it obviously and still have the indecision. Tell
me-- you know, we talked about pros and cons and how you’ve been assessing MARTA: No, well, I have been talking with him about the move. You know,
the pros and the cons. he’s indecisive. He wants to go because he wants to explore. But at the same
time, he doesn’t want to leave his friends. And so I think that’s another thing
MARTA: You know, I have gone over that-- what we did in the last few that I’m trying to balance before I make a decision. Although, I know that will
sessions-- and there’s a lot more pause for me as an individual. But yeah, when be a better environment for him to go with me. Yet it’s something that I had to
I see out of the collectivistic side-- a lot of negatives there. And I think it was deal with.
because something that my mom just said yesterday, I think, or this week. She
said, ‘me estas abandonando’. But I think I see that more manageable. Because as a parent, I have that
communication with them. I can talk about it.
ARREDONDO: She thinks you’re abandoning her.
COMMENTARY: As discussed, the gender roles and expectations in
MARTA: That I’m abandoning her. Latino families are socialized from early on and strongly reinforced, so it’s
ARREDONDO: That’s kind of guilty there. That makes you feel a little guilt. important to be aware of these and often ask clients how these expectations
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have affected them. Here Marta is struggling with a major life decision ARREDONDO: Why?
that puts her in conflict both with expectations from her mother, as well MARTA: Because at that time, she had some friends. They were close to a
as cultural norms of what is expected of the oldest daughter. So I ask her young boy, and I think that made it a lot harder for her.
about this because I want her to hear herself talk about learned expectations
verbalized to Latina girls. The oldest daughter is the mother’s helper, often ARREDONDO: Well, it sounds like you have made changes. I mean, you
sacrificing playtime to take care of others, and Marta, as the oldest daughter move to the States. Your mother, of course, has made change as well. That’s
in her family may be harboring resentment and guilt at the same time. My not easy for a woman to become divorced and leave. So there is something
intention is to unpack these thoughts with her, to explore her responsibilities that I hear about her that’s-- I mean, there’s some courage in her coming to
growing up, and how this is playing out in her current struggle. With my the States with two children. What are the similarities between you and your
mom, it’s a little bit different because she’s so stuck on her own thoughts, mom in some-- there might be something here.
and beliefs, and expectations. MARTA: I think there are. I think she’s courageous in living as they are in
ARREDONDO: Let’s talk a little bit about that because, again, you’ve come coming to another country to get a better future for us. And I think that it
from a very structured family environment, and you’re the oldest daughter. must have been really hard for her to leave her children behind. And yet right
And growing up in this Latino/Latina environment, I’m sure there were now that I hear you saying-- that it just-- I just thought about, she has made
messages that you received about your role as la hija mayor-- as the oldest a lot of changes, a lot of decisions to better her family. And yet she doesn’t
daughter. Are those coming back as a replay? Can you talk about those? understand the decision I try to make to become better to educate myself, to
become a professional, which is interesting.
MARTA: I think, in a sense, you may be right. The messages I received
growing up-- I was the one that needed to look after my siblings because my ARREDONDO: So she went through all of these changes herself. But
parents divorced when I was young. And my mom worked a lot. And then somehow, you doing this is not setting well with her right now.
when she came to the US, I was the one looking after the siblings when we MARTA: Right, like not accepting it or not acceptable.
stay with our grandmother. And the aunt-- when she went back home, she
ARREDONDO: You know, what I hear in this, too, are some of the family
wanted to bring us all with her; yet she decided only myself-- to bring me and
expectations about daughters.
my sister.
COMMENTARY: The messages to many Latina girls are very strong about
ARREDONDO: How was that?
roles and responsibilities, and not to be self-centered or egoísta--that family
MARTA: It was difficult because I had to leave everything behind. And so always comes first. The oldest daughter often holds the responsibility for the
that kind of reminds me-- now with my son-- you know, what he might go parents, or in this case, her mother. Sometimes parents are proud of their
through that I went through when I had to leave Guatemala. But at the same daughter’s accomplishments but they do not know how to express it because
time, for me, I have always been-- I think different than my two siblings with- it is something unfamiliar to them; for example, in this situation Marta’s
- in terms that I think about, OK, what would I gain? What are the positive mother may have had a very limited formal education in Guatemala. So
aspects of doing this? So I was excited. it might have been useful for me to have asked Marta about her mom’s
ARREDONDO: The positive aspects? reactions when she earned her bachelor’s and master’s degrees. In Latino
families-- that the daughters, especially the older daughter, is expected to
MARTA: Of moving away. do the caretaking. And you seem to have the resources. You’ve already gone
ARREDONDO: Of moving away-- meaning moving to the States? to school. So she probably thinks, what more do you need for school? What
MARTA: To another country-- yeah, to the States. And so for me, it was an more school do you need, right?
adventure in a sense. For my sister, it was a little bit different. MARTA: Right.
ARREDONDO: What was it like for her? ARREDONDO: You’ve gotten, already, a master’s degree. And now, you’re
MARTA: It was detrimental. talking about another degree? And that might seem to her a little bit odd or
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perhaps a little egoista that you’re doing something like that instead of her? I wanted to do?
don’t know. MARTA: Right, I understand.
MARTA: Yeah, I think it seems like-- for her, the expectation was, you know, ARREDONDO: What will the life situation be for your mom if you do leave?
graduate from high school and then get a bachelor’s degree. And that was her What is her life going to be like if you move away?
expectation. And I can see because he comes from a big family, they didn’t
have those opportunities. So for them, even just to graduate from high school MARTA: I have talked to her about it-- some options-- what can we do so she
was a big achievement. And so then they expectation for me and my siblings doesn’t feel that I’m just leaving her or taking her somewhere. I talked to my
was, OK, get a bachelor’s degree, and she should be OK. Why go for more? sister. And my sister could have her in her home. And she would like to have
And so I think what you said about-- that she might think I’m being selfish. her, because she has two younger children, and she feels mama would be a lot
I’m thinking about myself only. of help for her. But my mom is stuck in this thought that, oh no, like I’m just
‘la voy a dejar allí’ -- I’m just going to leave her there and forget about her.
ARREDONDO: Which is different, of course. She was thinking about all of
you when she made the move to the States and brought the two of you-- you ARREDONDO: So it sounds like she’s depended on you a lot. But she’s been
and your sister. So there are some similarities, but there’s also differences in this stage for a few years, obviously. She must have also-- I’m just thinking,
because the madre-- she was ‘cuidando’ the kids, right? She was taking care of what other resources she has that have been part of her life since she’s been
you, and she doesn’t see it quite that way with you leaving her. I mean, I hear here? I know you guys go to church and that she has otros amigos around that
more of the role-- that you’re not fulfilling your role. she used to work with. So how does that fit in? Have you talked about that
with her?
MARTA: Exactly. And I think that’s why it’s bringing this guilt. Because in
her eyes, I’m not fulfilling my role. MARTA: We have. She’s not in very much contact with her friends-- work
friends. She worked in LA, so it’s a little bit further from where we are right
ARREDONDO: And you feel that, too? now. And so she has lost contact since she retired. So she doesn’t have a lot
MARTA: And I feel that. In a sense, I feel that because we have this cultural of communication with the people she knew She’s not close to her siblings,
gender role norms that were engrained and somehow-- generational. They either. And so everybody just kind of...
come from my grandparents. And so leaving her-- and I think the conflict I’m ARREDONDO: Dispersed?
having is that she’s becoming resentful with me.
MARTA: Yeah-- all over the country. But she’s not close with any of the
ARREDONDO: How does that manifest? How is she’s showing her brothers or any of the sisters. So in a way, I think that’s probably what she feels
resentment towards you? that-- she has that dependency with me. Because there’s nobody else, and I’m
MARTA: She usually doesn’t talk about her feelings. And I think that’s the one that can take her or will take her to wherever she needs to go.
something that was not allowed in her family. But she says things like, oh, COMMENTARY: Women from different ethnic and educational
‘solo piensas en ti’. backgrounds have been my primary clients over the years. Not speaking up
ARREDONDO: You’re only thinking about yourself. or disagreeing has been a message to many adult women both at work and
MARTA: I’m only thinking about myself. How about your son? You know, in relationships. For Latinx familias that adhere to traditional cultural
he’s little. You’re taking him away from the family. My son has been the norms, communication is often a one-way/top-down versus a back-and-
favorite for her from all the grandchildren and the youngest of the boys being forth discussion. This is apparently what Marta learned. Advocating for
born here in the US. So I can see that attachment with him and not wanting herself to her mother may feel disrespectful and something that she lacks
him to go also. But at the same time, it’s OK, well, what do I do? I want to be a confidence doing, and thus doing a role-play can be a useful tactic to get the
role model for my son. And I feel that if I go further in education, then I can conversations that go on inside her head into words. I have found with many
be that. And at the same time, this is a personal accomplishment for me. Latina clients it can be a very effective way for them to stretch themselves
and to practice expressing their needs and desires more directly, as well as
ARREDONDO: For you to complete a doctoral program-- something you’ve
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respectfully. about you. In many ways, it’s easier to be in touch. I know when we came from
ARREDONDO: Let’s try something, Marta. OK, I’ll be you, and you be your Guatemala, it was so hard for you to be in touch with your parents. And I
mom. OK? Let’s kind of roleplay a little conversation you’ve been having with know you went through some hard times. And I don’t want you to go through
her and see how that conversation happens. So your mom-- so what does hard times, but I know we can talk on the phone. We can e-mail. And of
Mom typically say to Marta? Because you’ve been going through this for the course, you’ll come to Georgia to see me.
last few months. What does mom say? MARTA: But you know I don’t like the cold, so I stay here in California.
MARTA: ‘Recuerda que tiene su hijo’ -- So you have a son, and he should be That’s why I don’t want to move over there with your sister because it’s too
your priority. cold up North.

ARREDONDO: I’m working hard to make sure you and Miguel are my ARREDONDO: Well, give it a try, OK? It’s all new for me, too. It is going to
priorities. That’s never going to change. And I think that you will see that be somewhat of an experiment, but I know what I want at the end, and that is
Miguel will also benefit from this move, just like I did when you brought me to have another degree that I will be able to use. I’ll come back to California,
here-- and how I learned how to make some changes, and make some friends, and I’ll be able to, actually, do more with it and do some of the work that I
and go to a new school. So that’s something that you showed me, and I do think you want me to do, which is to help other people. I know that’s been
want to show Miguel that he can also do this. important to you. And that’s an example you’ve shared with some of the
volunteer work you’ve done.
MARTA: ‘Ustedes estaban mayores’-- You know, when I brought you here,
you were older. You were already an adolescent. He’s only a young child. So I want to follow that. And I think this degree is going to really help me
work with other Latinos, other immigrants. And in the long run, we’ll be
ARREDONDO: Well, that’s true, mom -- ‘si, es cierto’. However, you know, I together. It’s not going to be a long time. And you’ll come and visit. The cold
think it was actually harder for us. I don’t know. You and I never talked very won’t be so terrible.
much about it, but I had to leave all my friends. And I didn’t speak English
when I came here. MARTA: ‘Pero te vas a olvidar de mi’ -- I know you’re just not going to have
enough time to call me or to come visit me.
And I don’t know-- that was hard. I don’t know if you remember, but you
and I managed that. And we were big supports to one another. I don’t think ARREDONDO: ‘Bueno’ Mom, that’s never been the case. When I went away
I would have-- what happened to me is really a lot because of you. And so I to school once, I was always in touch with you. I never forgot about you. And I
want to continue to live some of what you planned for us when you brought don’t want to forget about you. I want you to believe that. We’ve been together
us here. through many hard times, and I think we’ve come to depend on ‘una a la otra’.
I know that right now, this is a little touchy, but I hope you know that I’m
MARTA: ‘Si, pero era differente. No era como ahora’ thinking of you as I make this decision tambien.
ARREDONDO: What was different? MARTA: Vamos a ver.
MARTA: That was different before. ‘En ese tiempo’-- You know, we have ARREDONDO: Vamos a ver. OK. Gracias, Mom. How was that, Marta?
family-- relatives around, and so you were playing with your cousins. Isn’t
that the situation with your son? MARTA: It was helpful to see-- to have this roleplay with you. At the same
time, I’m thinking, uh, she’s very defiant, and she’s very narrow-minded. And
ARREDONDO: Oh. So you think Miguel is going to not have any familia she’s closed to any possibilities. But I think I’ll get an idea of how, maybe, I
there or any friends? And so now, you’re concerned about him? can talk to her about some of the changes she had to make and put herself in
MARTA: Yeah. my situation and see how she reacts.
ARREDONDO: You know, mom, this is a real important decision for-- not ARREDONDO: You know, you have a very strong connection with her. I
just for me, but for all of us. And I think the more we talk about it, maybe the mean, you have been through--
more we can sort it out. Because I really don’t, in any way, intend to forget MARTA: We do. Yeah. We do.
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ARREDONDO: You have a very strong connection, and there there’s love conversation or conversations with her in Espanol. Yeah.
between the two of you. And that probably has to be a little bit more talked MARTA: And I think that’s a great idea. Definitely focus on that and see how
about-- about your emotional connection-- how much you care about her and it goes.
go down that road in terms of demonstrating the care for her. I know that in
many familias, we don’t talk about emotions a lot. We kind of, that’s-- we just ARREDONDO: OK, well, we’ll get together next week, and I hope that still
don’t. I mean, I know that that was my family experience. I never heard my works for you.
parents say I love you until they said it to the grandkids. They never said it to MARTA: Oh, yes. Yes.
us. So it’s hard to do that at times. But I’m sure that she has also appreciated
ARREDONDO: And keep some of your thoughts in the journal that we’ve
what you’ve done for her over the years.
talked about-- trying to maintain the journal, just whatever comes to mind
MARTA: And I think she has expressed that in different ways. But I think and how you can-- also, I think a lot of this is about yourself-- giving yourself
you’re right. She comes from a family that never expressed emotions. And so I permission. I mean, let’s understand that you’ve been socialized ‘como una
don’t recall ever she saying to us, I love you, or anything like that. You know, mujer latina’ -- And you’ve got all of these built-in messages ‘de ser una hija
it’s just hugs or-- but never-- Not the words. Yeah, not with words. Yeah. Not buena’ -- to be a good daughter.
with words.
There’s something, too, as we reflect on the skills you’re going through, and I
ARREDONDO: At the same time, you do have a really deep emotional believe you’re familiar-- because you’ve learned this in school tambien-- the
connection. There is a lot of ‘simpatia’ between the two of you. Tambien, a lot concept of marianismo. And what that tells us as women and needing to be
of ‘orgullo’. I think she’s got to be very proud of you. dutiful wives, daughters, hermanas-- and I guess I want to encourage you to
MARTA: And I can see that, although she doesn’t express it. But she reflect on that and how those messages are still perhaps very forefront for you.
expresses it in her own way, saying, oh, ‘tu eres como yo’. It’s not that the messages will go away, but you have to look at how deep they
are for you. ‘A ver como’ You can unpack those a little bit. ‘Que te parece’?
ARREDONDO: Ah, you’re like me, in terms of--
MARTA: ‘Si, yo pienso que’ My mom comes from a very-- strong gender
MARTA: You’re like me. Strong. roles.
ARREDONDO: Prideful. ARREDONDO: Strong gender roles.
MARTA: Right, exactly. Strong woman. MARTA: Yeah, very strong gender roles. And I can see how that
ARREDONDO: Well, that probably needs to be reflected back to her-- said marianismo-- the messages that were sent to her-- somehow relaying all the
back to her. Mom, ‘yo soy como tu’ -- you know, I’m strong. I’m like you. And expectations that she has for me.
this is what you’ve taught me. You know, just to reaffirm that bond you have ARREDONDO: Very good. OK, so you can think about that sort of in the
with her. ‘Y también los valores’ -- That you’re respecting her. You know that way-- it interferes on the same time to give her the structure. So maybe take
you’ve always respected her and admired her. ‘Todos esas cosas’ I think. some notes in your journal about that, and ‘nos vemos la semana que viene’.
MARTA: And I think that that will be a good point to address with her. I MARTA: OK. Gracias.
know the values, and-- because she has very strong values.
ARREDONDO: OK, have a good week, Marta.
ARREDONDO: Yeah, the familia comes first. But as well, you want to just
point out to her-- as you have this talk, I mean it’s more you want to try to do MARTA: Thank you.
it this way and have more of that kind of equitable ‘platica’ with her. And you ARREDONDO: OK.
two communicate in Spanish, I guess?
YALOM: OK, that really did encapsulate a lot of the issues that we were
MARTA: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, she doesn’t speak that much English. talking about-- her immigration-- she came to this country as a teen. Now,
ARREDONDO: OK. OK, so that’s powerful to be able to have that she’s willing to move on, and that’s making central-- what is she dutiful to? Is

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she dutiful to herself, her son, or her mother? And obviously, that’s kind of the heard. We want them to just do well. But there is this kind of an alienation
central thing she’s dealing with right now. that occurs when you go back home-- and I’ve had people talk with me about
ARREDONDO: Lots of conflict for Marta-- lots of conflict. And you can it-- people like Marta-- who will go back home and their parents will say, well,
also see her talk about the internalized messages about what it means to be we’re glad you’re home. You can help us with this. They might ask them how’s
a woman-- talked a little bit earlier about marianismo-- and to be a dutiful it going in school. And they’ll just say, that’s nice.
mom as well as a dutiful daughter. And those are deep messages, which YALOM: So they feel like somehow they’ve left the tribe.
doesn’t leave a lot of space for her to think about why she needs to keep ARREDONDO: Yeah, and they feel a little loss there. They feel a loss. That’s
moving. I mean, that’s where the conflict is. And somewhat, again, what she’s what they feel. It’s a loss because their parents or their grandparents don’t
discussing is-- and she’s kind of coming to realize that maybe she and her understand what they’re doing in school, especially if they’ve moved away.
mom are more alike in some ways. What are you doing there? That’s just still a little bit not typical for many
YALOM: Well, I thought you did a really nice job of making those individuals.
connections-- of kind of making the parallel between her mother made the YALOM: And as you said before, since inter-dependence and belonging to
decision to immigrate to this country for the betterment of her family, and family community is so important, that must be very hard. And you really put
then you pointed out that took a lot of courage on her part. So you kind of a lot of emphasis in terms of her mother-- what is her mother’s community?
tweaked that into focusing on the strength. What is her network?
Her thinking is like she’s betraying the family. She’s betraying her mother by ARREDONDO: Yeah.
moving. And you tried to say, look, you’re doing the same thing your mother
did. And it’s not just about you. It’s about your future. It’s about your son’s YALOM: And also trying to-- she was talking about, well, where is her
future. So I thought that was kind of a masterful intervention you made. mother gonna go? Can her mother live with her sister? So I do get more of
a sense that, again, we’re all social beings, but that’s kind of a primary lens
ARREDONDO: Thank you. And that’s where I want Marta to go is to talk you’re looking through when you’re working with Latinos. Where are they in
with her mother that way-- kind of in that authentic way. Look, we’re really that network of family and relatives?
more alike. I mean, I’m following what you’ve done-- and affirm her mother’s
courage and resiliency to come here with very little resources and to create a And if they make a decision like she’s making, how is that going to impact
life that-- Marta has a master’s degree. that web? It’s not just about a lot of Western psychology-- and self-help is all
about you. How are you going to get to the top of Maslow’s hierarchy? Self-
So I mean, that’s a reflection on mom. And her moving on to get a doctoral actualisation is about self. You’re saying that’s not the predominant way that
degree, or aspiring to that, is something her mother, also, I guess, inspired in things are viewed.
some ways, probably influenced. One of the things that also occurs to me that
Marta and I didn’t talk about-- it comes up oftentimes with Latinos who go ARREDONDO: Absolutely not. And I think, too, the idea of looking at the
on to get advanced degrees-- in particular is that sense of distance between strengths, as I say, I like to always work with Latino clients and put strengths
themselves and their parents. into the picture. Because the messages we’ve learned socially-- and I still see
it going on-- is that you have this great obligation and responsibility. So when
The question often is, you’re still going to school? What are you doing? What a client comes in, they may just come in feeling like the guilt about it versus
is that going to do for you? You know, we don’t get the message as Latinos-- looking at the assets-- how they are making contributions, how they have
that you have to be a doctor, or an attorney, or an engineer. That’s not a already been a good daughter, or son, or a parent.
message that-- it comes in other cultures. We know that.
So playing on the strengths-- also the problem solving. Because as we know,
YALOM: But you’re saying that’s not a predominant message? it’s easy to get locked into one way of thinking. And if the cultural norms are
ARREDONDO: No, it’s not a predominant message. We want our kids to so strong, then we don’t think in terms of other alternatives. You know, well,
do better than us, but we don’t say, be this. That is not a message that I’ve if I do this, what are the benefits of this? I said to Marta, so what is your pro

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and con list? you were born here. So yeah, I think not to make assumptions where someone
I said that to her at the beginning. Because she was-- in our first few sessions, was born-- also to not make silly statements.
she was pretty stuck on, it’s either this-- I’m either going or I’m not going-- Let’s say I’m working with a client who is this green-eyed, very white, Latina
and how it was so laden with the cultural script she had-- having to break to not say something like, oh, you don’t look like other Latinos I know. I
out of that. Because that cultural script weighs one down-- can weigh the mean, that’s probably not a very appropriate thing to say. But you know,
therapist down. The therapist can actually get into that unfortunate script and those things are commented upon. I think if we look at it from the cultural
think that they have to come up with a solution on behalf of the client. competency standpoint, it’s terribly important for the therapist to recognize
YALOM: One question. If anything comes to your mind-- what are some-- his or her blind spot, number one.
I’m sure you’ve supervised clinicians, I imagine, and non-Latino clinicians-- Number two is, look at themselves as cultural beings. How far or close
what are some mistakes, if you want to call it that, or areas that were-- non- are they to their own immigration? How much do they value their ethnic
Latino clinicians working with Latinos-- make, or get tripped up, or have heritage? If they are not religious people-- and maybe they are kind of anti-
some blind spots? religion. So how much of that is a possible problem or barrier? So I think the
ARREDONDO: Sure. Sure. therapist has to examine their own awareness about their heritage, and the
values that they bring, and the assumptions they have about someone’s visible
YALOM: Anything come to mind? ethnicity-- someone’s visible color.
ARREDONDO: Yeah, I think one is that they may want to bring Spanish into YALOM: Always get to know yourself and your own values.
the session.
ARREDONDO: Always get to know yourself and what that means in this
YALOM: If they speak Spanish, you mean? relationship. Because again, if you’re a woman working with a woman client,
ARREDONDO: Right, and their Spanish is not that good. So I think it’s very you may find that there are many things you’re related around because of
important to be careful about that. Maybe your client speaks English as a the socialization that you have gone through as a woman. It’s not exactly the
second language, but let them work-- let them do that and not impose your same, but as I said, there’s that second-class citizen-- the nurturing role for
poor Spanish on them. Unless maybe there’s a reason where you may want to women in general that we still have an expectation around. So that may be an
say to the client, is this-- this a word I’ve heard-- triste which is sad. Are you alliance that would come up eventually in a counseling session-- but I think
feeling triste? So I mean, you might want to do something appropriate, but paying attention to what you don’t know. And if you have the opportunity to
don’t try and speak Spanish. consult with a colleague who is Latino/Latina, do that.
YALOM: Don’t try to show off your Spanish skills-- YALOM: Sure.
ARREDONDO: Exactly, that’s not the place to do it. Yeah. ARREDONDO: By all means there are people out there-- there are certainly
books you could read now that weren’t around-- including one of mine. But I
YALOM: --as a way of showing that you understand them.
would say, just be humble about what you don’t know.
ARREDONDO: I think probably another error-- and I think we’ve talked
YALOM: Yeah, well, I certainly realize a lot that I don’t know. And
about this at the very beginning-- is to think that the client is an immigrant.
fortunately, through our conversation, I know a little bit more. I wish I had
OK. I think that’s still a big assumption that-- people have asked me, what are
more time with you, but perhaps at a later date. I want to thank you for
you, or something like that.
sharing all of your expertise and knowledge and also being willing to show
YALOM: “Where are you from?” this session on camera. That’s been, hopefully, very valuable for our viewers.
ARREDONDO: They’ll ask me, and I’ll say, oh, I’m Mexican-American. And So thank you so much.
then they’ll say, oh, where in Mexico are you from? I mean, so sometimes ARREDONDO: It’s been my pleasure. Un placer. Gracias.
people don’t understand when you get that hyphenated identity that it means
YALOM: Gracias.
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Culturally Sensitive Counseling with Latinos Psychotherapy.net

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About the Contributors More Psychotherapy.net Videos


We have videos covering a wide range of experts, approaches,
Video Participants therapeutic issues and populations.
Victor Yalom, PhD (Interviewer) is the founder, CEO, and resident We continually add new titles to our catalogue. Visit us at
cartoonist of Psychotherapy.net. He has produced over 50 training videos in www.psychotherapy.net or call (800) 577-4762 for more
the field of psychotherapy and counseling. He maintained a private practice in
psychotherapy for over 25 years, and has conducted workshops in existential- information.
humanistic and group therapy in the U.S., Mexico, and China. Approaches
Patricia Arredondo, EdD is an extensively published Counseling ACT Integrative Therapy
Psychologist and Nationally Certified Counselor who was the first Latina
Adlerian Therapy Interpersonal Psychotherapy
president of the American Counseling Association and founding president of
the National Latino Psychological Association. President of the Arredondo Art Therapy Jungian Therapy
Advisory Group (AAG), she is considered a national expert and leader in Body-Oriented Therapy Mindfulness
the areas of multicultural competency development within the business
and counseling fields both domestically and internationally. Her research Brief Therapy Motivational Interviewing
interests are broad and along with 100 refereed journal articles, she is best Career Counseling Multicultural Therapy
known for her 2014 Culturally Responsive Counseling with Latinos (ACA
Press) and Becoming Culturally Oriented: Practical Advice for Psychologists
Child Therapy Narrative Therapy
and Educators (APA Press, 2006). Arredondo is a highly sought speaker and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Object Relations Therapy
consultant on a wide range of topics related to diversity practices and social Consultation/ Supervision Person-Centered Therapy
justice. Currently, she is a Visiting Professor with Arizona State University,
Fielding University Faculty Fellow and faculty with the New Leadership Couples Therapy Positive Psychology
Academy, University of Michigan. Dialectical Behavior Therapy Psychodrama
Emotion Focused Therapy Psychodynamic Therapy
Evidence-Based Therapies Reality Therapy
Manual Author Existential-Humanistic Therapy REBT
Lawrence Rubin, PhD is a Florida-based psychologist and mental health Family Therapy/ Family Systems School Counseling
counselor who is on the clinical faculties of St. Thomas University and the
University of Massachusetts-Boston. He specializes in the assessment and Gestalt Therapy Social Work
treatment of children, teens and their families. Larry recently joined our team Group Therapy Solutions-Focused Therapy
as editor, and when not working, likes to stare wistfully into the setting sun
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