FB Spirit of Inquiry

FB DISCUSSION ON LEARNING & NOT-KNOWING
Kora Koos 2.11.2010

I wonder how would Arjuna have had reacted to Krishna's teachings as
exposed in the Gita had he had prior knowledge about it? Many of us
have already read the Gita, some know the chapters and verses by
heart, some can jump from one verse in one chapter to another to make
a point or to defend some reasoning. Arjuna started to listen to
krishna's expose with a not-knowing, fresh and attentive mind keen to
learn and understand...Is it possible for us to start at that very level of
Arjuna?
Kusum Padma it is possible if we agree to become an empty glass while we

listen....and if we develop total surrender and love.........
Kora Koos Kusumji proposes three conditions: consent to become empty,

development of total surrender and development of love. That's interesting.
Rajan Sood All cannot be at one level at the same time. But if we all listen to
Krishna's Gita straight either in Sanskrit or Hindi, we will surely get the
essence of Krishna's teachings. All these commentaries have really polluted
the Gita and i include here even Shankracharya's Bhashya.
Kusum Padma all these 3 can be achieved.....coz i am personally

experiencing it...and its only bliss.......hmmmmmmmmmm enjoying.......
Mrityunjayanand Jee Normally a true seeker picks up real pearls from depth
of spiritual ocean, collects all those in bag of righteous impulses very
carefully and leave all those which are of not any use even at that depth very
silently and carefully.
I think, it is wise step. All spiritual commentaries made from any corner of
the globe are respectable and my personal feeling is that no one of such
should be condemned at any level.
Humble wishes.
Kora Koos The main thing here is not about listening to the Gita in Hindi or
Sanskrit. It's about our style of listening. Can we listen without the noises
and interferences of our past accumulated knowledges and beliefs? Can we
listen and absorb what is being conveyed by the words of the speaker
without our background's reflexive reactions? Can we listen with pause, with
poise, with a free attention, that is capable of seeing things clearly, directly,
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not as an intellectual concept by merely understanding of the words with our
own sets of preconceived meanings?
Dwarka Kalantry KKji: " Arjuna started to listen to krishna's expose with a
not-knowing, fresh and attentive mind keen to learn and understand...Is it
possible for us to start at that very level of Arjuna?"
We cannot start at Arjun's level. Arjun is jitendriya, best archer in the world,
born with devi sampada, etc. The basic assumption that Arjun was not
knowing and fresh mind is incorrect. Arjun's problem was that he was
deluded (moh), he acknowledges in 18:73 that his delusion is destroyed due
to HIS GRACE. Arjun is at graduate level and I am at KG!
Rajan Sood @KKji, how can we listen without the interferences of past
karmas. The point is BG will appeal to all according to the level one is at.
Krishna if listened to straight appeals to almost every level, the beginner as
well as the most advanced one.
Kusum Padma we can if we stop the interference of our thoughts...through

meditation it is possible to stop prejudices and past karmas as we will be
burning them through meditation techniques ...and i am not telling you from
any books...this is my own experiences my dear friends...
Kusum Padma anybody can become an Arjuna...it is a state which can be

achieved....it is not by reading only but by applying the teachings according
to our self....
Kora Koos Sir, the beginner has an innocent mind, ready to learn, ready to
attend, not reacting immediately when something is proposed, but pauses to
reflect and digest and moves slowly. In this regard the beginner has an
advantage over the advanced, whose cup is already filled with so much stuff.
The main thing suggested here is the art of listening, not just to the Gita, but
to life in all its movements and moods as all life is a yoga. Kora was not
referring to the qualifications of Arjuna but to his mental state, which
because he was confused and despondent, created the proper conditions for
learning and understanding.
Rajan Sood Padmaji, wondorful, if you can stop your thoughts. First of all,
please see if they are YOUR thoughts in the first place.
Kora Koos Again, what a brilliant insight Rajanji! Are our thoughts really
ours? Can thoughts be personal or original?
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Rajan Sood @KKJi, when we all began, we were already there, at home.
The problem is now we are deep in the jungle trying to find the way to
home.
Kora Koos Right sir! Such clarity of seeing is certainly not the result of
intense thinking or quoting from others' thoughts. It is direct, immediate,
spontaneous and enlightening!!! Excellent, sir.
Amarnath Mukherjee When the mind is not prepared and one studies the
Shastra, he will invariably miss the point. The Shastra statements will get
distorted to yield an understanding which will cater to the existing
urges(vasanas).These urges will not allow you to understand things as they
should be understood.(Shastra VASANAS)
Dwarka Kalantry KKji: "The main thing suggested here is the art of
listening" The story is said about four shishyas sitting in front of
Dakhsinamurty who did not speak a word and they learnt it all. In another
story, a saint went to meet another, they sat for three days without anyone
uttering a word and departed. The followers did not understand what was
spoken or heard. The art of listening starts with art of not speaking.
Kora Koos AmarnathJi! Thanks for sharing about the shastra vasanas, which
finally act as an impediment to real learning and understanding.
Rajan Sood Koraji, have you read BG in its raw form. Direct translation or
in Sanskrit. It is surely shows the shortest path to home.
Kora Koos Dwarkaji! A brilliant insight from you. The art of listening starts
with the art of not speaking, so beautiful, poetic but so true. Thanks for the
enlightening insight sir. Pranaams.
Kora Koos Rajanji! I read the Shrimad Bhagavad Gita, The Scripture of
Mankind, translation by Swami Tapasyananda, from Shri Ramakrishna
math. It contains sanskrit text and word to word translation into English.
This provides ample space for deeper understanding and broader
appreciation. I believe there are other valuable translations.
Rajan Sood If it is exact translation, then it is fine. You see Krishna spoke to
Arjun, knowing very well that BG is going to be a Shastra. Krishna is the
best person to deliver the message. We should be all ears to Him and Him
only. Nobody in between.
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Kora Koos Sir, in that case you will have to go back to the Mahabharata war
to witness what really took place...Joking of course. Remember, Krishna is
adhiyagnya in you and if you learn the art of listening to your heart, certainly
the whispers of wisdom will reach your meditative ears, dear.
Donna Baier-Stein Glad to see this post this morning. I have been lurking,
reading posts but hesitant to respond because I do not have background in
the Gita. I read parts of it in college, many years ago. But I am interested in
what you are doing here. I will listen and learn.
Umesh Davda @Kora ji ,we are all conditioned by so many versions of Gita,
that we have to start from fresh ,by reading direct from the Original Gita and
make our own mind up, what its suppose to mean from within our heart, but
that will take generations of Births
Kora Koos The forum is really open and free from discrimination as kora is
without any guru or lineage. Thanks for inviting and accepting!
Kora Koos @Umeshji! What is the original Gita? Adhiyagnya shines in the
deepest core of every living entity, beyond mind, intellect, ego, memory,
moral values, impulses... By embracing the meditation taught in the Gita,
access to that core is open and whispers from the divine come to us in the
form of insights.
Umesh Davda so close yet so far away, lots of practice required i suppose to
tunnel through the mind and intellect by removing the dust from it, which
has settled on them from thousands of births, but its the process of removing
that dust is more important to know, so that we can get clear vision of the
Adhiyagya which is residing in every thing that exists
Kora Koos Umeshji! With due respect sir, just reconsider what you've just
said, word by word and the underlying assumptions and beliefs tied to that.
May be it's all a story that you are telling yourself. May be it's not as tough
as your story depicts it! The story pushes Adhiyagnya so far away, when It is
always present as the very LIFE sustaining you and everything tied to you.
Just feel that LIFE in you and everything and connect your heart to it. See
the miracle happen as the story crumbles down...
Umesh Davda many thanks Kora ji
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Om Kiran The Gita is a stage in the Evolutionary Process....the Light has to
glow from within......the Gita is but a reflection of this
Light.....interpretations vary, only becoz the reflection is in direct proportion
to the brilliance of the light within.....
Kora Koos Kiranji! What a beautiful way of putting it all! Brilliant! Thanks!
Narinder Bhandari
Om Kiran Jee ......... narinder somehow could not understand how The
Geetha could be in ' a stage 'in the evolutionary process . The words of
Krishna stand like rock. Inviolate. It is the interpretations that keep evolving
................. ...The Ved-Vani is inviolate. But words are words
................maybe narinder has not been able to understand your words clearly
.....he is only too fallible........ With deep personal regards for you.
Mrityunjayanand Jee
...Really a wonderful discussion is going on. I have a mood to give a little
turn to this excellent thread started by Kora. We are missing a very
important factor in putting our views and what may be that?
Let us go to Chapter eighteen of Bhagavad Gita. Sri Krishn asks:
"Have you, O Parth, listened intently to my words and, O Dhananjay, is your

delusion born out of ignorance dispelled?"
And then says Arjun:
naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtirlabdhā tvatprasādānmayā’cyuta

sthito’smi gatasaṁdehaḥ kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
"Since my ignorance has been dispelled by your grace, O Achyut, and I have
recovered discernment, I am free from doubt and shall follow your precept."
Mark here the used word..."smritirlabdhā".....recovered

discernment....."recovered".....means it was but lost some how.....!!!
"Achyuth ! Because of Your grace, my passion is destroyed, I have......

regained....... my memory, I am consistent, being bereft of doubts and am
ever ready to obey Your orders." Whereas, Arjun was perplexed at the time
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of reviewing both the armies, to find his kith and kin therein.
So make the discussion more interesting keeping these into considerations in

view which are..."recovered or regained discernment".....and now after
listening Geeta..again.."consistent"...!
Kora Koos Nashto (destroyed) mohah (delusion) smriti (memory or

awareness or discernment) labdha (obtained, gained) tvat-prasadat (by your
grace), sthitah (consistent, firm), asmi (I am), gata-sandehah (doubts
dispelled), karishye (I will do), vachanam tava (what is said by you).
Kora Koos @ Jee. The twist may be interesting but the text says something
different; it talks about obtaining/gaining insight (smriti) after having
listened (shruti) with a non-wavering attention (aikagrena chetasa).
Narinder Bhandari
No MATTER ........... only a thought, Om Kiran dear ............. finally, the ha-
ha-ha- We feel ...the Truth inside of us ...... the truth that IS ! Truth IS.
Truth is also the relationship......... the relationship of the self with the Self
…….. the Timeless bonding of the Purusha with Prakriti
Expressing in words , perhaps, becomes the the limitation........... OR ..........

perhaps, the Limitation lies in....... the Interpretation of words
Personally, though, all the evolution of Interpretations, newer and newer

blossoms, indicate to narinder , only the Immutable sacredness of the Truth
of the Word. Inviolate. This is, perhaps, narinder-ness’s limitation in the
Herenow.
Did narinder hear the Zen master say, “The moment we speak a word about
the First Principle, it becomes the second. The first can-not be spoken
about.” ...............
SO …….. what do words matter ! LOL
Thank you, and Blessings …………… what a joy to feel the varied
fragrance of Being. AUM
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Mrityunjayanand Jee
@ Kora Koos,
"...Many of us have already read the Gita, some know the chapters and
verses by heart, some can jump from one verse in one chapter to another to
make a point or to defend a reasoning..."
It is really encouraging but the best way... is that when one may lead a
seekers life and live Geeta in true sense. To live in verses of Bhagavad Geeta
and then to link them while expressing is better than simply discussing
Geeta in academic interest and on intellectual level only. Because the first
comes through spiritual experiences while second is based on theoretical
know hows only.
"...Did narinder hear the Zen master say, “The moment we speak a word
about the First Principle, it becomes the second. The first can-not be spoken
about.” ..SO … what do words matter !...."
Yeah.That's true. After a certain... stage, even physical communication with

spiritual mentor is not needed much. All the communications come with in
sitting thousand and thousands kilometers distance away.
Guru catches the impulses whether righteous or unrighteous of every

fraction of moments arising in the mind and heart through each breath of
disciple and directs as per necessities with divine intuitions clearly visible on
thought screen....spotless....really spotless. Words get lost at that stage...as if
it never existed.
What an amazing experience...? Which can not be shared or shown to others

by any means. But...but ...this opportunity can be availed by any one in
human garment. That is certain if any one has a real wish..!...............Humble
wishes.
Narinder Bhandari Very True ...each word True! Is it not that is why .......
The Upanishad's say " Happy the Wise man, for whom 'wrong' and 'right'
have ceased to exist" !" AUM
Kora Koos
The prime interest of kora in opening this thread was to start an inquiry
about our traditional way of understanding, which is to fill up our minds
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with so much stuff and to view and understand reality through that lens.
When the mind is filled with stuff, it hardly has space for real listening, for
fresh investigation because of the thickness of its references and cherished
acquired views. Such a mind feels more as a knower than as a seeker, as an
inquirer. Real inquiry requires a mind that is full of space for learning anew,
for unlearning, for questioning what has been taken for granted, what has
been assumed by others and incorporated in oneself as truth. Real inquiry
also requires the mind to be able to say "I don't know, let me investigate in
real life situations in relationship with real life individuals." This finally
brings us to an important quality which is open-mindedness (OM), which
leads to direct encounter with life and all life issues, whether mundane or
spiritual, which then results in true understanding and love and in right
action. The intention was certainly not to challenge any one's stance or
approach, though to some extent in presenting different approaches, one
mind may have an unintended impact on others. An attempt through this
thread was to try to trigger the quality of mind in us that could push us
deeper than the mere intellectual and theoretical orientation into a state of
mind that could connect to the real Adhiyagnya in us, and through that
connection, receive insights that might facilitate the understanding of the
wisdom inherent in the Gita and incorporate that in our day to day life.
When the spiritual flame is ablaze in us, false concepts and theories are
reduced to ashes and the enlightening One becomes our guide, guru and
antaryami. Kora's endeavour was geared at that, may be it was a clumsy or
maladroit way of proceeding. But this is truly kora as he is! Thanks
everyone for participating and keeping the thread so lively and enlightening.
Pranaam.
Narinder Bhandari Ah, KK ……….“When the spiritual flame is ablaze in

us, false concepts and theories are reduced to ashes and the enlightening One
becomes our guide, guru and antaryami”... and THEN..... the self knows
...knows that there is NOTHING to know ....... NOTHING-Ness is the
DOER , Nothingness the knower….Each word expressed here sings the Joy
of your sincerity and love...... GRACE. We are blessed by your sharing.
Narinder Bhandari Becoming The Buddha ... narinder's present experience

(and it is the experience only that is meaningful ) is ..........The present
experience is that it takes TIME, even though one has been blessed with the
realisation that TIME is a Myth....... it does NOT exist !
...................................................................................AUM
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Kora Koos @Narinder. Sir, enjoy becoming the Buddha! Though being the
Enlightening One is no less meaningful inperience. Hahaha!
Kora Koos Dwarkaji!Chap3.V43: O mighty armed! Thus realising That

which is superior even to the intellect (buddheh param), and submitting
superficial self-identity unto the power of That Self-existent core of being,
eliminate the hard-to-overcome foe in the form of desire to always have
more (kamarupam). This requires going beyond the senses, the mind, the
intellect, the trio which sustains the superficial psychological identity in
order to be open to That which is self-effulgent, self-existent and self-
sufficient. Pranaams!
Narinder Bhandari did HE say ....... did the Budhha say??? ..."The Self is the
Not-self ... that verily is the truth ! ".........AUM
Kora Koos Vasudevam sarvam iti............
Mrityunjayanand Jee @Kora Koos
"...The intention was certainly not to challenge any one's stance or approach,
though to some extent in presenting different approaches, one mind may
have an unintended impact on others. An attempt through this thread was to
try ...to trigger the quality of mind in us that could push us deeper than the
mere intellectual and theoretical orientation into a state of mind that could
connect to the real Adhiyagnya in us, and through that connection, receive
insights that might facilitate the understanding of the wisdom inherent in the
Gita and incorporate that in our day to day life..."
We are all here to enter into such a state of mind that could connect to the
real Adhiyagnya in us. How to receive insights that might facilitate the
understanding of the wisdom inherent in the Gita and incorporate that in our
day to day life...is already mentioned in this seed scripture itself. This is the
exellency of Bhagavad Geeta.
"...When the spiritual flame is ablaze in us, false concepts and theories are
reduced to ashes and the enlightening One becomes our guide, guru and
antaryami..."
That's the final conclusion. Let us make our best efforts for that.
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"...Kora's endeavour was geared at that, may be it was a clumsy or maladroit
way of proceeding. But this is truly kora as he is!..."
Nothing was wrong any where. Very smooth and soothing through out.
Neither it was any challenge nor has been seen as challenge. Humble
wishes!
Kora Koos Thanks Jee! All were involved in real abhyasa, the inquiry to
learn and understand. This forum is really lovely and enriching. Kora has
enjoyed those direct, immediate insights that suddenly flashed into the
sharing. Pranaams.
Mrityunjayanand Jee @Kora Koos,
"....This requires going beyond the senses, the mind, the intellect, the trio
which sustains the superficial psychological identity in to order to be open to
That which is self-effulgent, self-existent and self-sufficient....."
Nice coverage of a very interesting footage.
Sri Krishn says in Bhagavad Gita:
"Above senses there is the mind and above mind there is the intellect, and
the one which lies above all of them is the Soul within, supremely powerful
and yet subtle."
So man is not so helpless after all. He has an armoury of plentiful arms with
which he can wage war with strength and confidence.
He can use his mind against the senses, his intellect against the mind, and
above all these there is his Soul, all powerful and yet unmanifest.
That Soul is the real "us," and so we are strong enough to subdue not only
our senses, but also our mind and intellect.
Knowing the Soul-subtle and in every respect mighty and meritorious, we

must restrain the mind with our intellect and kill this desire, our most
formidable enemy.
Possessed of knowledge of the unmanifest and yet mighty Soul that is
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beyond intellect, and after a due appraisal of his innate strength and
restraining the mind with his intellect,one must slay desire,the worst
enemy.One has to kill this enemy after a proper scrutiny of inherent
capacity.
Desire is a terrible foe, for it deludes the Soul through the senses. So
knowing own strength and with confidence in the might of own Soul, one
should kill this desire-his enemy.
Of course, this enemy is internal and the war to be waged against it is also
internal- of the sphere of the mind and heart.
This hints also to answer few of the points already raised in thread under
discussions for great learnings. Humble wishes.
Narinder Bhandari
Kora Koos Prabhuji! may we never forget What we are, may we never
forget That, may we never forget THIS! INVOCATION. KAIVALYA
UPANISHAD
Om.
...May all the limbs of my body grow strong.
May my speech be nourished and strengthened.
May my nose, my eyes, my ears and my other sense organs
be nourished and strengthened.
All Upanishads are the likeness of the brahman,
the ultimate reality.
May I never forget the brahman,

may the brahman never forget me,
may I never be forgotten.
Absorbed in the brahman, may I realize the dharma,

the natural and eternal law of the universe
described in the Upanishads.
Om, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.
PS please notice the emphasis on Brahman NOT forgetting the self .
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Kora Koos @Narinderji! Sir, This is That, Which is What We Are! All
pointing to the Undivided Life Underlying the Universe as captured by the
Experiencing Awareness and as reflected by the seat of experience
processing in a unit of consciousness.
Chit shakti vilas!!!
Dwarka Kalantry Jee: "Knowing the Soul-subtle and in every respect mighty
and meritorious,we must restrain the mind with our intellect and kill this
desire, our most formidable enemy." Also "The soul is above all" Bhagwan
is asking us to slay the desire. The soul does not do anything it is witness
observer then who kills this enemy?
Kora Koos
Excellent question for enquiry sir! So how do we approach this question?
Can it be by the surrendering of the superficial, ever-desiring identity,
willingly and effortlessly - surrendering unto That which is self-existent,
self-sustaining and self-sufficient? So that there is only pure surrendering
without a centre or surrenderer desiring to derive personal benefit or
advantage or pleasure from that act. In such a selfless surrendering or let-go,
the desire to be and have more for self (Kama) just dies naturally, leaving
full space to Pure wordless witnessing of the whole field of experience
(Kshetragnya)...
Krishnah Jogiah When he cup is full, we can't pour into again. But is there
any particular method to empty the cup? To 'unlearn' is more difficult than to
learn.
Kora Koos
Krishnah, true sir, to unlearn is difficult if we take that to mean a method, a
technique. Starting from unlearning is a natural state for everyone;
unlearning takes place when we see clearly that knowledge is always part of
ignorance and t...hat both knowledge and ignorance make up the sense of
'me' ego, which for its own security and continuity keeps accumulating stuff
from all quarters based on the pleasure and power principles. To unlearn
means to turn attention away from the self-centred and accumulative
impulse and to let it rest effortlessly on what is actually taking place both
within and without. This disconnection with self-centredness, which is
unlearning, emptying, is also yoga when the clouds of learned and
accumulated stuff cover the self-effulgent sun of direct knowing without a
knower, direct seeing without a seer...
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Rajan Sood Dear Krishnahji, the whole purpose of spiritual seeking is '
emptying the cup' only. Krishna through BG tells the process of unlearning.
Kora Koos Can we keep this flame of understanding that "the whole purpose
of spiritual seeking is emptying the cup" ablaze in our mind and see what
happens within us as we do that?
Rajan Sood There is no learning required only unlearning. There is no doing

only non-doing required. Non-doing means 'Inaction in action and action in
inaction "(BG verse 18 ch.4 ). Nothing else is required.
Kora Koos Rajanji! Impressive! Learning means accumulation and

conditionings because all knowledge carries the shadow of ignorance and
they strengthen the self. Unlearning means putting a stop to that absurd
movement. Then learning takes a new dimension, direct, immediate seeing
of life and events, which triggers insights and real wisdom, unburdened by
traditional beliefs and conditionings.
Rajan Sood Perfect Koraji. Learning strengthens that which is Unreal Self,
which is mind and memory. Unlearning puts the mind to unuse and in the
absence of active mind, the Real self comes into picture on its own. Please
see verse 16 chap. 2 for this.
Kora Koos So what is unreal ‘talking machine’ in the mind has no real
substance while what is real ‘silent enlightening awareness’ never ceases to
be. About these two, finally the awakened seers realise the truth...
Rajan Sood That is what it is. The mind, intellect and ego are unreal and also
not in our control. So see who is writing and who is reading. Who is
hankering after enlightenment?
Kora Koos Sir, it is Life and consciousness in one form talking and sharing
with Life and consciousness in another form. Just see the beauty of it. The
test of unreality is whatever appears and disappears in consciousness cannot
be true; whatever remains permanent in consciousness is real. Just try this
test out and enjoy the discovery unless you have already done that sir!
Hankering after enlightenment is an inbuilt impulse in many or most
individuals because the shadow feels that it is originated and sustained by a
hidden Light. The inner ghost in the house wants mukti because deep down
it feels its own fragmentation and the resulting sense of being unholy-
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debarred of wholeness. This dissatisfaction with self haunts mind and
intellect and drives them in the quest for fulfilment, holiness, enlightenment-
-the Wholeness of LIFE, beyond all fragmentation.
Rajan Sood This is very well put and you have answered why mind hankers
after enlightenment. But my point was who is hankering after this. It was
only to say "You are not THAT ".
Kora Koos In just 4 words, you shared a most beautiful realisation! Thanks
dear, love u.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Let us further continue this thread. Just to move ahead,
let us find the final conclusion in few words first. What has to be discussed
here? And to what conclusion we have already reached?
Rajan Sood You continue sir and please tell us your conclusion.
Mrityunjayanand Jee I was not part of discussion. Hence it should be got

concluded through the initiators of the posts. The original thoughts are there.
Rajan Sood We concluded that mind is unreal and so stands abandoned.
Kora Koos This has been an exploration into learning and unlearning, which
led to actual insight into what is real and unreal. When the unreal is seen as
unreal, then there is space for the real to shower its enlightening light!
Mrityunjayanand Jee @Rajan Sood,
".....We concluded that mind is unreal and so stands abandoned...."
Fine Rajan ji. But what is in practice of normal being? Let us be realistic
with the existing conditions within us. At which stage, you feel that mind is
unreal and it stands abandoned? What was the puopose of Arjun asking this
question in Chapter six, verse thirty four of Bhagavad Gita:
cancalam hi manah krsna pramāthi balavad dirham

tasyāham nigraham manye vāyoriva suduskaram
"For I find restraining the mind as difficult as restraining the wind, because
it is (equally) restless, turbulent, and mighty."
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The mind is so fickle and restless (by nature it is something that chums and
agitates), obstinate, and powerful.
So Arjun is apprehensive that trying to restrain it is going to prove as futile

as tying up the wind. Checking the mind is, therefore, as well nigh
impossible as checking a storm.
And in reply, why Sri Krishn has not consoled him just by answering that:
"Hey...don't bother....mind is unreal and stands abandoned?"
Rajan Sood M.Jee why do you forget that Krishna concluded the BG
similarly by telling Arjun to surrender his mind totally unto him in the very
last verse of BG i.e. 66 of chapter 18. This is not my or Koraji's conclusion.
This is Krishna's conclusion in BG.
"......This has been an exploration into learning and unlearning, which led to
actual insight into what is real and unreal. When the unreal is seen as unreal,
then there is space for the real to shower its enlightening light!........."
And that is the real and total task Kora Prabhu ji. To see real as real and
unreal as unreal. Is this so easy to get understood in black and white
sharings? What are the practical way outs to understand this serious
mystery? Where we all are trapped?
Truth is never extinct, at any time-past, present or future and the unreal has
never any being. God is the only reality, eternal and immutable.
We know this but still running behind any absurd which is unreal.
Why....and then how to reach to that level where real looks as real and
unreal as unreal?
Kora Koos Jee. This is the difficulty of the onlooker. Being away from this
harmonious and living discovery that flowed spontaneously through diving
into the ocean of inquiry, the onlooker wants to get a taste of the beauty of
the depth while remaining on the shore.
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Kora Koos Jee! So you feel it was just a black and white sharing, an
intellectual gymnastic undertaken for mutual gratification by two deluded
egos!
"....Why do you forget that Krishna concluded the BG similarly by telling

Arjun to surrender his mind totally unto him in the very last verse of BG i.e.
66 of chapter 18. This is not my or Koraji's conclusion. This is Krishna's...
conclusion in BG...."
I remember each words of Bhagavad Gita and every thing am trying my

level best to keep in my memory. But I always try to share on ground level
where normally we are at present. Not coming to my memory where Sri
Krishn had concluded about this mind only being unreal. Can any one of you
please let me remembered?
Mrityunjayanand Jee
@Kora Koos,
"....This is the difficulty of the onlooker. Being away from this harmonious
and living discovery that flowed spontaneously through diving into the
ocean of inquiry, the onlooker wants to get a taste of the beauty of the depth
while remaining on the shore...."
Yeah.I agree. That is my point of worry too. That way, I am thinking also.
Thanks for getting my apprehension confirmed.
Rajan Sood Krishna says to Arjuna in Verse 65 chapter 18, "Give your mind
to me......." and in Verse 66 that "leave everything else and surrender all to
me.......'. And the conclusion of mind being unreal, well it was done much
before in verse 4,5 chapter 7 where he classified mind as his lower or gross
nature. Now it need not be explained here that gross nature of God is unreal
only.
"..... So you feel it was just a black and white sharing, an intellectual
gymnastic undertaken for mutual gratification by two deluded egos!...."
16
I even do not know much about myself. How can I guess for others?
Kora Koos Asato ma sadgamaya: May we move from the unreal (asat) to the
real (sat). How through shravanam (listening intently, respectfully, honestly
to each other questions and responses), mananam (inquiring further for
clarification and insight), nidhidhyasanam (digesting and absorbing the
insight into one's life). This was the way we proceeded, prabhuji.
Kora Koos Jee. Then explain your mind clearly, please. What were behind
those words, with due respect.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Yeah..and that should be also. I agree. And that is we

are doing.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Rajan ji,
Please let me know the straight reply of Sri Krishn for this question of
Arjun:
cancalam hi manah krsna pramāthi balavad dirham
tasyāham nigraham manye vāyoriva suduskaram
...
I normally follow the same words which has been used in Bhagavad Gita.
Never try to move zig zag to form some personal opinions using words on
my own.
Rajan Sood Verse number & chapter number please. I need to read Hindi
translation.
Kora Koos So now the thread comes to a beautiful point whereby we see the
way to move together, as one inquisitive attention, enveloping several minds
involved in abhyasa, from the unreal to the real. Through this process of
fresh, open, unburdened, ...free inquiry, real learning has taken place. It has
not produced more knowledge but has triggered the power of insight, the
ability to see things clearly through an expansion of the space of attention
and a liberation of the earlier contracted and compacted energy of
awareness. As long as the spirit of true inquiry is lively and the space and
energy of attention (chidakasha, chitshakti) is not compacted, the unreal's
impact on consciousness will be to a limited degree only. Submitted most
humbly!
17
"....Then explain your mind clearly, please. What were behind those words,
with due respect...."
That is what I have raised in my post: What has to be discussed here? And to
what conclusion we have already reached?
Mrityunjayanand Jee Chapter six,Verse thirty four Rajan ji. And I need
straight answer in words of Sri Krishn, not by any other fabrication.
Kora Koos With due permission may kora add the following answer with
regard to krishnaji's words: abhyasena vairagyena ca grihyate. The hard-to-
control and fickle mind can be overcome through abhyasa (immediate
spiritual inquiry) and vairagya (dispassionate attitude). This was verily the
methodology adopted throughout this thread and can be verified through
examination.
Mrityunjayanand Jee
@Kora Koos,
"...So now the thread comes to a beautiful point whereby we see the way to
move together, as one inquisitive attention, enveloping several minds
involved in abhyasa, from the unreal to the real..."
That is in my regular practice,...nothing new and I try to intervene only when

I see some how some where deviations.
"....Through this process of fresh, open, unburdened, free inquiry, real

learning has taken place. It has not produced more knowledge but has
triggered the power of insight, the ability to see things clearly through an
expansion of the space of attention and a liberation of the earlier contracted
and compacted energy of awareness...."
This can be claimed only within Kora Prabhu ji depending upon own
spiritual practices. It has different measure stick for each individual. And I
avoid in any sort of claiming at any stage due to my own personal reasons
and strict spiritual disciplines under which I have grown up.
"...As long as the spirit of true inquiry is lively and the space and energy of
attention (chidakasha, chitshakti) is not compacted, the unreal's impact on
18
consciousness will be to a limited degree only..."
No one can deny. Yes.....what is ..is. But again it is individual asset and I
like to keep confined with in me only.
Rajan Sood Arjuna asks Krishna that this mind is very turbulent and
powerful and i consider controlling it as difficult as the wind. And Krishna
answers that this mind can be controlled by repeated practice and
DISPASSION. --------. Now dispassion can... happen only after
SURRENDER. ---------. Please keep in mind this is a continuous dialogue
between a guru & disciple. Krishna is telling Arjuna in chapter 12, verse 12
that Surrender is much much superior to doing practice to the extent that He
gives lowest rank to doing practice. And how can we leave aside the
conclusion by Krishna in chapter 18 where He is asking Arjun to surrender
his mind in all respect.---------. When we started we were talking only of
conclusion. So let us stick to the conclusion of Krishna.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Rajan ji,

Which will happen how is a different point and that I always prefer to share?
We are here simply for learning and sharing that. But I am talking about the
conclusion which you have reached, not Sri Krishn. Please get me reminded
straight where Sri Krishn is telling that mind is unreal?
Rajan Sood Please see verse 4 & 5 chapter 7 where Krishna classifies mind
as his lower or gross nature. And a person of your calibre should know that
gross nature is only Unreal.
Kora Koos Please, revered sirs, let's not compact our attention through such
discussion, especially on this eve of deepavali so that the inner light is not
smothered. May the gnyanadipam in all of us keep shining and may we
never act as an obstacle to that light. Aum Tat Sat. Leaving the thread
happily with the insights and love.
Rajan Sood Wait a minute Koraji.
Kora Koos ok sir
Rajan Sood M.jee, here is something that you may relish, even if one is able
to control mind by practice, which though is not possible without dispassion,
19
the person doing practice will be trapped by EGO. Now no practice on earth
can surpass ego which is the last step to PARBRAHAM.
Kora Koos
......
Two birds, inseparable companions cling to the same tree.
One of them eats the sweet fruit, the other looks on without eating.
On a similar tree, the subservient-self sits grieving, absorbed, deluded by its

own impotence.
But when it sees the Other Ruling-Self, in all Its glory, then its grief passes
away.
Mundaka Upanishad
Rajan Sood Right Koraji, the matter is simply of knowing and seeing.
Thanks it was a good session today.
Om Kiran yes..the starting at the level of Arjuna is important, to comprehend

the Consciousness of Krishna..........else even the Gita can become just so
much Knowledge , without any awareness ....
Kora Koos OmJi! Welcome back with a brilliant insight to share! Thanks
Om Kiran this thread of yours fascinates me, Kora....it gives expression to

something i have been perceiving or rather sensing for quite sometime now
Kora Koos Well dear, it was a honest and horizontal sharing with several
minds accepting to operate on the same level with a given mindset eager to
learn freshly here and now without having to jump back into the reservoir of
stored information. There is the feeling that Arjuna showed us the way to
right learning through the art of inquiring without holding to his own
preconceived opinions and defending his personal stances; he was OM-Open
Minded and invites us to follow his approach of open-minded inquiry.
"....Please see verse 4 & 5 chapter 7 where Krishna classifies mind as his
lower or gross nature. And a person of your calibre should know that gross
nature is only Unreal...."
20
Basically I have no caliber now at this stage Rajanji. Of course, there was a
time when this used to happen some how, but now it looks like a very simple
word for me. It is all lost with the passage of time.
But, yes, I remember the verses quoted by you. Sri Krishn says:
"I am the creator of all nature with its eight divisions-earth, water, fire, wind,
ether, mind, intellect, and ego."
From Sri Krishn, God, has arisen nature with all its components. This nature
with its eight parts is the lower nature.
And then he says:
"This nature, O the mighty-armed, is the lower, insensate nature, but against
it there is my conscious, living nature which animates the whole world."
The nature with eight parts is God’s lower nature. But, along with this, there
is his conscious nature which impregnates and gives life to the whole world.
But the individual Soul too is "nature" because it is associated with the
other, lower nature.
I hope you agree with all these. And both are God's nature. Sri Krishn is
wise enough not to use "Unreal"...as being sung here in chorus. Now there is
a question:
If God is real....how HIS lower nature may be called "Unreal"? Is God's

lower nature is unreal for us at the stage we are? Is it so?
Now let me add Verse Six of the same chapter also where Sri Krishn says:
"Know that all beings arise from these two natures and that I am both the
creator and the end of the whole world."
All beings spring from these animate and inanimate natures. These are the
two sources of all life. God (Sri Krishn) is the root of the whole universe,
both its creator and destroyer. It springs from him and is also dissolved in
him. He is the spring of nature as long as it exists, but he is also the power
that dissolves nature after a sage has overcome its all limitations. At that
satge, Sri Krishn himseLf is a "Doom" too which is a matter of intuition.
21
Though I have not yet, but hope, some of us have overcome it's all
limitations and every thing is brought to their intuitions which is expressible
through words. And of course, Kora Prabhu ji has already claimed for being
the witness of any such "Doom".
Kindly guide me if I am misleaded some where in presenting my views.

Humble wishes.
Kora Koos Moreover, Adhiyagnya is always seated as the Enlightening

Presence in the hearts of all inquirers, ready to guide them forward along the
path of self-inquiry, self-discovery and self-realisation. Our boldness rested
totally on that Presence being there within and among us in that inquiry.
Some may laugh at this, some may see this as disguised arrogance... but this
is a judgement at their own level. We can only welcome them to join us with
the utmost respect and affection.
".... Please, revered sirs, let's not compact our attention through such
discussion, especially on this eve of deepavali so that the inner light is not
smothered. May the gnyanadipam in all of us keep shining and may we
never act as an obstacle to that light. Aum Tat Sat. Leaving the thread
happily with the insights and love...."
Inner light always glows in it's own way Kora ji. I feel, Deepawali is not one
day celebration simply.
Kora Koos Thanks for this enlightening remark sir. Wish you the best of
deepawali ever and ever, today and ever after.
Om Kiran hmm....the reservoir of stored information is a rich heritage we

cannot deny...in fact it a legacy we cherish...but as u say, this is what i am
alluding to..the open-mindedness.... the Arjun-Krishna Consciousness..
.there is an Arjun inside... us and the all pervading Krishna Consciousness
too within......we have to be open to hearing their voices speak to us from
within and from without....the mistake we make is in trying to kill the Arjun
inside us, in a bid to worship the outer form, of Krishna , reducing him to
medals in our necks, and to stone images to be worshipped , forgetting His
essence gets stifled inside us with our self-erected barricades...
22
Kora Koos Exactly, Omji! Whenever we compact and constrict our
attention, for some reason or the other, can we be open-minded? When our
attention, here and now, is clouded by interferences and references, can we
be open-minded? These are not rhetoric questions but real, genuine ones!
Om Kiran yes truly said Kora.....it is this that i have been constantly
referring to.......this tendency to cut the wings of the albatross....it baffles
me......references aimed at enlightening are true light-bearers, indeed i
treasure them the utmost ....but an attempt to compact and
constrict....?.doesn’t that betray an underlying sense of insecurity?....for the
light fears not darkness, ..it rather cuts through it, and thus dispels it.....it is
this very Light that seeks to glow through all of the Sacred texts.....do we not
unwittingly try to extinguish it , by trying to constrict it and restrict it...?....
".....Two birds, inseparable companions cling to the same tree.

One of them eats the sweet fruit, the other looks on without eating.
...On a similar tree, the subservient-self sits grieving, absorbed, deluded by
its own impotence.
But when it sees the Other Ruling-Self, in all Its glory, then its grief passes
away.
Mundaka Upanishad......"
Thanks Kora Prabhuji for getting this reminded to me which in fact was
learned in my childhood days. Humble wishes.
Mrityunjayanand Jee
@Rajan Sood, "... the matter is simply of knowing and seeing. Thanks it
was a good session today...."
It's universal truth Rajan ji. And we will always have good sessions.
...
Happy Deepawali!
Kora Koos You said it all so clearly Omji! Constriction and contraction
come from this deep-seated sense of insecurity inherent in the mind because
it feels separate, fragmented - cut off from the whole and it constantly seeks
and worships security and any object/person/image promising it security,
23
pleasure and power for its safe survival and continuity. Look at any one
being fearful: how they contract and react through flight, fight or freeze.
Kora Koos @Jee. You are most welcome Prabhuji! To care, to share, giving
and forgiving-these values make life worth living.
Mrityunjayanand Jee I am and will always remain at service Kora Prabhu ji.
Rajan Sood Mjee, first on the point of real and unreal. What is real and
unreal, there is a feeling that this understanding has to be absolutely clear
before one proceeds with the profound subject of BG.--------------------------.
That one which changes, that one which modifies and that one which is
covered by time is UNREAL.-----------. And that which is changeless and
timeless is REAL.----------. Now the 8 elements of God's lower nature are
subject to changes and modifications whereas the pure consciousness which
is the higher nature is CHANGELESS and TIMELESS and so REAL.
Rajan Sood MJee, i have a frank question for you. How will you explain
yourself as to who are you? Perhaps the answer to this will put us together
on this platform.
Kora Koos Hi RajanJi. Welcome back with a refreshed mind. can Kora share
the following regarding the real and unreal and the Truth underlying both.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=143346605710477&set=a.14036
7242675080.25143.100001054155607
Tsimi James "If you fill your heart with gratitude for the many blessings
God has given you, you won't have room left for any complaints about the
things you think He hasn't blessed you with." We occasionally need to shed
off old habits & items that burden us and add no value to our lives. There are
no shortcuts to any place worth going.
".......I have a frank question for you. How will you explain yourself as to
who are you? Perhaps the answer to this will put us together on this
platform...."
Thanks Rajan ji for your question, the reply of which is really not known to
me. Though one can find lot of discussions going on this topic on FB....with
24
so many findings....but honestly speaking.....even those are not helping me
much. Let this be disclosed to me by my beloved at the rippen time and even
at that stage...am not sure, will be in position to reply you. I beg pardon for
this great inability of mine.
And we are already on one platform.....simply some concepts are clashing

some where, some how and mode of presentation may be.
I feel,Bhagavad Gita is a very delicate scripture to handle and deal with. And
not only Bhagavad Gita.... most probably all the scriptures which have come
out through enlightened ones.
Normally we discuss one half or one fourth line of a single verse at a time
from any desired chapter with out referencing it's rhythm and connectivity
with other verses and try to conclude the Yogic terms with half hearted
attitude. Geeta verses have been misinterpreted since long unfortunately
because of this attitude which has caused for a serious misleading to entire
mankind. How the Yogic terms get transformed and transplanted properly
from one understanding of initial level to concluding understanding of final
level is skipped and a wrong message gets conveyed.
Any one who is not well versed with all the seven hundred verses of
Bhagavad Gita, thus gets confused what is what at what stage? For them,
who have a total concept does not matter much.
Language is another barrier to find the exact substitute in other language.

Like I do not find the exact substitute of Guru, Karm, Dharm, Yog, Yagya,
Sanskar...and so many in Enlish. Approximate English equivalents may be
used but not necessary that the same may reflect the real understandings as
what exactly it is as per Bhagavad Gita.
Now clashes are simply because what ever is conveyed, should have a
proper projection with exact reflection using best substituted words to define
the Yogic terms with proper supports. Whole world is here and trying to
grasp some thing positive from our discussions. What's the use,...beg pardon
to every one,.....if simply discussions are here with out any solutions and
way outs as per the spiritual norms and lineage of enlightened sages already
defined in scriptures.
I feel it is enough for me to submit my views and to add much is of no use
25
though many diversions are there. My main view is that our sharing should
be thoughtful, well balanced, excellently calculated with lot of love and
feelings for each other.
Humble wishes.
@Rajan Sood,
"........first on the point of real and unreal. What is real and unreal, there is a
feeling that this understanding has to be absolutely clear before one proceeds
with the profound subject of BG......."
Please refer to your post:".....why do you forget that Krishna concluded the
BG similarly by telling Arjun to surrender his mind totally unto him in the
very last verse of BG i.e. 66 of chapter 18. This is not my or Koraji's
conclusion. This is Krishna's conclusion in BG......."
Just below this post, In reply to Kora ji,it is already hinted:...."Truth is never
extinct, at any time-past, present or future and the unreal has never any
being. God is the only reality, eternal and immutable."
I know this by the way Rajan ji.
But I always try to speak in language of enlightened sages as it is. They have
very wisely used the words calculating it's full impact. Where is my
language? What I have explored yet? Nothing.......why should I use my
language and interpretations? That is the reason, I normally mention: "Sri
Krishn says:...."
I will say "mind" unreal if Sri Krishn uses the same word for "mind" any
where while referencing Bhagavad Gita and for which a request of mine is
already with you. Please let me know if you have yet found any where? This
is because "mind" should be understood in Yogic terms.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=143346605710477&set=a.14036
7242675080.25143.100001054155607
Great gift from Adhiyagnya Kora ji. He also moves according to time, space
and changing taste of devotees from time to time.
26
Mrityunjayanand Jee
Rajan Sood,
".....Dwarkaji, humility is the trait of Satav Gun of Prakriti bringing out such
actions from the mind...."
Which is real or unreal Rajan ji? Mind being unreal...what this may be?
...Humble wishes.
Narinder Bhandari
.AUM Perhaps the true study of the Bhagvada Geetha can begin .......only
after the Great Happening which we call "Samadhi"....the Death of mind .
And, then it is not a Doing any more ....... words now arise from the Source
that is both the... self as well as the not-self, impart their meaning and keep
dissolving into the source
The meaning of the sharing , all sharing , is only , somehow, to persuade the
Mind’s acquiescence to its Death .
The Knowers ( the Enlightened ), who have a deep ‘apperception’ (intuitive

grasp) of the essence of 700 shlokas ...... keep commenting on the individual
shlokas with the overall essence always imparting to their words the
Intuitive aspect ..................
THAT is the true Import of the scriptures declaring “ Bin Guru gati Nahe”
.... Liberation is NOT possible without worshipping and serving the Guru .
BUT.......................
The aspirant, the seeker , can grasp only what his Intellect is ready for at that
point of Time ... and no more .......... TILL, one day, some day, the Mind
witnesses its own Death....... and then, it is, that words begin to speak to the
seeker. His Consciousness shares its awareness from that height, from where
a much larger ground is available for view .......
Higher and higher keeps rising the Consciousness ...... deeper and deeper the
becomes the expression of the Sharing ...... more and more powerful in its
ability to open the ‘knots’ of the mind.
27
AUM
One day the Paradox, which hitherto ruled the Intellect, dissolves never to
raise its head again.
The Self now knows the self . The words of the Vedas are its waves, arising,
singing, and dissolving in it.
Words can NEVER ever reveal THAT, which is the source of the words.......
the Nothingness, the being, the self.
What more to say, and how ........ round and round , in circles, we keep
dancing , making all to dance , ....... the Play goes on. The self remains the
self that it always was. The Ego keeps rejoicing as the self ........ feeling very
grand and ecstatic in the self ............. and yet the one thing NOT realising
...... that it is not yet Dead.
And it is Right that it should be so. There is nothing to despair. So the

Scriptures declare.
Walk the Path.... dear seekers....... walk the Path................. the Final Proof of
your Death that is Resurrection...... IS your conduct ... the Conduct that is
now the “word of the Veda ... in action.”
Narinder Bhandari The Enlightened is the mouthpiece of Krishna ...... till the
False is willing ... and chooses to, die to its falseness ...... till it 'surrenders' to
the LIGHT that manifests in the guru........ till it bows to a Guru ... till it
worshps the Guru ............... how will it 'surrender' to its conceptual image of
Krishna... whatever it be in words ....... AH !
Rajan Sood Mjee, humility being a trait of mind is Unreal and will change
into something else sooner or later.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Thanks Rajan ji.
Rajan Sood Mjee, should we make another attempt to come on together at

the platform of BG?
28
Kora Koos There are moments where Silence is the best way of
communicating, for words contaminate everything, especially the beauty and
clarity of the NOW!
Mrityunjayanand Jee We are already Rajan ji.
Rajan Sood Mjee, if i may ask, who are you--------, body, mind, intellect,
ego or soul?
Mrityunjayanand Jee I have already submitted you about my inability.

Please refer my post above.
Rajan Sood Sir, to go on the profound journey of BG, the answer to this
question is a must. If one is unable to find answer to this fundamental
question, then a revisit to BG or a guru who knows BG is required.
Narinder Bhandari " The King is Dead.... Long Live the King "(smile with a
wink)....So the Game must go on and on and on ........ AUM
Kora Koos The word is never the thing! They are mere pointers, having
different denotations and connotations for different persons in different
situations. Seeing clearly the limitations of words, one is released from their
grips and learns to look without the lens of contaminating words. This
approach is so refreshing for kora.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Thanks for support Rajan ji. So nice of you!
Kora Koos @Rajanji! Sir, let us please refrain from giving our opinions
about somebody's status. Let us instead proceed to inquire about the mind,
the intellect, the ego, the body so that we can see clearly and directly what
these words point to. Can we do that sir?
Mrityunjayanand Jee And the game is going on...on....and on. Hope, Kora
ji...it will be so refreshing certainly.
Narinder Bhandari the self is the self is the self ..... no narinder, nor kora
(smile )...... and yet ...... narinder is narinder , kora is kora ..... and ...... ( what
more is left to say or not to say ........ and HOW .....so helpless, so impotent,
so frustratingly unabled) ...................AUM
29
Rajan Sood Koraji, what you are pointing to is perfectly alright, but the
situation sometimes force these things to happen.
Mrityunjayanand Jee Let it happen Kora ji what so ever is happening. In the

mean time, I will get time to refresh Geeta pages. And may approach to my
Guru also for necessary assistance and to inform about his inability as
well....
Kora Koos Agreed sir! But reactions only constrict our attention and
obstruct clarity and empathy. Let us not impose our worldviews or spiritual
views on anyone or anything! Let us try to learn with a fresh, learning mind
that holds on to nothing already gone, let us stick to the now and flow with it
to unlearn, inquire and learn together. We are One operating in different
forms and mental configurations. let us appreciate the difference while not
losing sight of the underlying Unity.
Narinder Bhandari Buddha smiled .....and said >......." YES. NO. ...... (Yes
and No) BOTH ....... (Yes and No) Neither ."............AUM
Rajan Sood Koraji but to proceed on delicate subject of enquiry we must

have awareness of our present position.
Kora Koos MJee & Rajanji! Peace, open-mindedness, affection and

innocence are essential for the flow of learning and sharing to occur.
INNOCENCE is primordial: It means not causing hurt and not being hurt.
Let us proceed in our mutual sharing with love and innocence.
Rajan Sood But i do not know if there is hurting happening to anybody. We

are having frank discussion only.
Kora Koos Rajanji! Let us start from the position of not-knowing but willing
to learn from oneself and from our relationship with others. Without
relationship, who are we? What are? Relationship is the mirror through
which we can learn to know ourselves better. This is kora's feeling. It may
be right or wrong. But we can always investigate that as well. But
investigate we should not cease...
Mrityunjayanand Jee I am at my Guru's place Kora ji and trying to learn

from zero level. I will certainly join when our levels are the same.
30
Dwarka Kalantry Jee: The way I understand is that real and unreal are
philosophical terms. Real = permanent and unreal= that which is changing.
In philosophical terms everything is unreal and except one which is real.
Shankara says "Brahm satyam jagan mithya....." Bhagwan says " na sato
vidyate bhavo na bhavo vidyate satah.... 2:16". Dr. Radhakrishnan quotes
Shankar as follows: Real (sat) as that in regard to which our consciosness
never fails and unreal (asat) as that in regard to which our consciousness
fails. Our consciousness of objects varies but not that of existence. The
unreal which is the passing show of the world veils the unchanging reality
which is forever manifest. He quotes Ramanuj as saying the unreal is the
body and the real is the soul. He quotes Madhavacharya as saying vidyate-
bahvah means duality, there is no destruction of the unmanifest (avyakta)
prakriti. Sat of course is indestructible. The way I understand is that words
can hint towards the Brahm but they cannot take us there. We do not know
what Bhagwan had in his mind, we do not know what Vyas had in his mind
when he compiled Gita, we do not know what others have in their mind
when they are interpreting this shastra. There is a story about soup of a soup
of a soup of a soup and ultimately the soup becoming water. Thanks for you
guidance. Best regards.
Narinder Bhandari to every word in this BEAUTIFUL DISCUSSION...... to

each Mahatma, who here commented ..... narinder reverently bows . _/\_
AUM
Kora Koos New interesting elements shared by Dwarkaji! Thank you sir!
Rajan Sood Koraji, we are all one Nameless and Formless operating under
many names and forms. We are all at the level of body, mind, intellect and
ego. Rajan and Mjee and Koraji are all covered under names and forms and
therefore are UNREAL.
Kora Koos So can we unreal folks have an unreal inquiry into the unreal
dimensions of body, mind, intellect and ego on this unreal thread?
Rajan Sood Koraji, Krishna's telling Arjun ( alongwith Rajan. Mjee, Koraji
and all body-minds ) , not to stick to the Unreal but instead surrender it after
explaining him the facts.
31
Rajan Sood Krishna says all of our miseries is only because of our
identification with body and mind. We have all gone wrong for trying to
control that which we are not and so cannot control.
Om Kiran that which is Transitory is Unreal , in that at some point in Time it

will dissolve into nothingness......the body, the mind, the intellect, the
ego......these can be assets to the Energy that lies entrapped within them, or
they can be liabilities......they r a Reality in as far as they control the course
of this Energy......this Energy which is a miniscule atom of that Infinite
Force that they have sprung from....is what we refer to as the
Self.......Liberation is the state when the Self is free from the impact of all
that is Transitory.....that is when it rests in the Reality of the
Infinite...leaving nothing more to be Realized......
Rajan Sood All of our attempts to become enlightened are at the level of
body mind only which will lead us to nowhere. Surrender of identification
with body-mind is the only way out. Krishna is asking for your HEAD
straight. This is possible only after the GYAN of real and unreal.
Kora Koos Can we say that unreal means transitory and perishable? If body-
mind-intellect-ego are transitory and unreal, can we, the result of these
unreal aspects, ever touch the Real, the Source, the Ground? Is Liberation
from the unreal the death of what we unreally are?..........If any attempts at
body-mind level is futile, on the basis of what can we posit that surrender of
identification, which obviously is an attempt, is different? Let us meditate on
that....
Om Kiran firstly Rajanji....one does not Become enlightened...enlightenment

dawns with the evolving of the Self...that is when the Self recognizes the
Self...True..Surrender of identification with body -mind is the only way
out......from darkness to Light.....if by Head, the reference is to this
Identification, then again, yes.......coz it is this identification with the
transitory that binds us to the Unreal, holding us back from Realizing that
which is Real......
Rajan Sood Koraji, Surrender happens after the Knowledge of what is what.
You do not have to do anything, including meditation, for that.
Rajan Sood Ignorance is our only Enemy, says Ramana Maharishi.
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Om Kiran When the Self too says this.....one is well on his way.....
Rajan Sood Omkiranji. enlightenment is a happening and definitely not the

doing.
Om Kiran right ......but this is not to fall into the fallacy of shifting the focus
from the doer absolutely and throwing it entirely upon an outside
force....some effort from the Self is definitely required.....here is where the
body, mind, and intellect could be valuable assets, rather than become
liabilities......
John Wilson As I try to tell my friends, "you are already enlightened, you
just haven't accepted the responsibility/possibility of that yet."
Rajan Sood Wondorful John. But this awakening establishes a little later
when the EGO dies totally of starvation. You see ego can only die of
starvation if not fed with any doing whatsoever.
Om Kiran i say this becoz, if one belies the doer-ship entirely, it would
follow that the reverse of enlightenment......that is allowing oneself to sink
lower into darkness would also mean that one is not responsible for any of
one's conduct.......base...r natures would manifest themselves, throwing full
blame on the outside force, taking no responsibility whatsoever for the do-
er-ship.....the forces at the disposal of the Self..the mind, the intellect, the
ego could cause havoc to the surrounding, and accept no responsibility
whatsoever.....while one cannot deny the influence of the rajo gun, or the
tamo gun....the Self has to make an effort in the direction of letting the
Satwa gun triumph..
Kora Koos What if, body, mind, intellect, ego are natural instruments of
experience and experience processing and are the creators of reality as we
experience it through these?
Rajan Sood Omkiranji, Krishna is advising Arjun to fight the battle and do
not worry for any bad conduct. He even supports the evil while killing
Dronacharya and Karan. He tells Arjun: you with your tiny intellect cannot
decide what is right and wrong.
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Kora Koos What if reality is a living actuality just like our body, mind,
intellect, ego. So the instruments create reality and are part of the experience
of reality at the same time.
Rajan Sood Koraji, body-mind-intellect and ego are unreal and can
experience all which is unreal i.e. world and matter. These instruments
cannot experience the REAL.
Kora Koos Rajanji! Please let us move very slowly by observing now the
facts as we apprehend them freshly and not as per any previously held
conclusion. Kora is saying this also to himself so that a fresh discovery can
be made about this very delicate issue. Direct immediate seeing is the best
way to learn, would you agree with this sir?
Om Kiran Krishna advised Arjun not to let the physical aspect of his
relationships to cloud his heart n mind, when fighting evil.....
Rajan Sood Sure sir.
Rajan Sood Budha says, "events happen, deeds are done but there is no doer
thereof ". Do we agree to this with experience and not intellectually. Let us
start with this.
Narinder Bhandari ah, Rajan Bhai...... is this effort to begin a new discussion
........ is it a Doing or an Happening ??? (smile)
Umesh Davda It all leads to developing ones faith and devotion towards
him, its just that we are shown different paths to get there, depending on our
own state of mind and intellect
Kora Koos So let us consider what we understand by reality. Is there any

reality for us without the instruments of experience processing? It would
seem that these naturally endowed instruments of experience create reality,
which is made up of objects, events, sensations, thoughts, feelings, impulses,
living entities in the biosphere. These instruments of experience producing
reality at individual level are also objects of experience. Let us stop here and
look actually whether this is so.
Rajan Sood Narinderji, please consider everything as a happening only.
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Om Kiran it’s a happening in so far we choose to allow it to happen..
Tsimi James smiles; as he listens to this interesting array of words coming

from nothingness...I prefer zero and go from here...silence is AUM
Rajan Sood Koraji, i think others are bored with our never ending
discussion. We can stop for now and later on discuss via e-mail.
Om Kiran ha ha Rajan ji....
Umesh Davda total surrender is to leave it all to Krishna to chart ones life
ahead we just do our Karmas according to His teachings ,just take sant
Surdas Example, total devotion, total surrerder .
Kora Koos Sir, knowledge is always bored with the livingness of actual
reality, which is uncertain, unconclusive, just like the ordinary movements
of the universe. It is so and we should accept and respect that, too.
John Wilson KK, It appears that "reality" differs from person to person,
depending upon how they identify thems(or S)elves. It becomes a matter of
which "instruments of experience" one chooses to utilize. Thus, having no
Absolute reality, we can better understand and interact with "relative
reality".
Kora Koos Everything and everyone in this existence provide us with an

opportunity to learn about ourselves first, boring people. Thanks John Sir,
you are always there to shed new light and help us move forward in an
inquiry undertaken for actual learning and discovering.
Kora Koos So moving further in the true spirit of learning, one could ask
whether the naturally endowed instruments of experience, which create
relative reality, are to be considered as unreal, when they form part of reality
as we experience them actually? This point was pertinently raised by M.Jee
earlier on.
Om Kiran Narinder ji....Silence born out of Realization is the

Ultimate.......but Silence pregnant with conflict?.....the conflict needs to be
addressed Narinderji......till it resolves itself into that Ultimate Silence.....
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Tsimi James ~ "if nothing changes, nothing will change"
~ "If I always do what I've always done, I'll always get what I've always got"
~ "I've created my reality"
John Wilson To do so would be to deny the divinity.
Narinder Bhandari yes, yes, yes ......................of course YES !!! That verily
is the Truth ! AUM KIRAN Jee .................(smile)
Kora Koos Thank you Tsimiji for being what you feel you are and for
sharing that with us.
John Wilson One need not create dualism and deny aspects of Creation.
Thus, be aware of things as they are. Be aware of the gods living and
breathing through you; be aware of people in need; be aware of your own
humanity and divinity.
Kora Koos John sir! Received with an open heart!
John Wilson Thus, one does one's duty as Krishna counsels. Thus, one
remembers that one is not the "doer" and creates neither attachment nor
aversion within one's emotional body.
Kora Koos Received sir!
Rajan Sood Koraji, i am not sthitpragya as yet. I was always there on this
thread and can surely continue.
Kora Koos So if the instruments of experience processing are part of our

reality, they are real in this sense, as testifiable by our instruments
themselves, although transient.
Kora Koos So if we see them as real and tangible now, though temporary,
what is unreal then? Can we inquire into this if we are clear about the reality
of our instruments of experience? Let us digest this part first and then move
forward at a future time, if you agree, sir.
Rajan Sood The unreal can only see unreal. We know that REAL is one
which is changeless and timeless.
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Rajan Sood Any attempt to understand REAL with Unreal is going to fail
miserably.
Kora Koos Rajanji! You have taken a quantum leap and left poor kora alone
in this inquiry. Please, sir, bear with kora's snail-like pace.
Tsimi James A man may conquer a million men in battle but one who
conquers himself is, indeed, the greatest of conquerors. The Buddha
Kora Koos kora will be back soon! Thank you all for contributing in our
inquiry, though imperfect and clumsy. Genuine thanks and respect.
Rajan Sood Koraji, you are quite an advanced body-mind with great
discriminatory power.
Tsimi James My mind is a terrible master but a wonderful servant. I choose

to direct my mind and not to allow it to govern who I am.
Tsimi James ~Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot
change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.~
ღ "Bright Blessings
Kora Koos @Tsimi. U R a mastermind sir. Chapeau!!!
Kora Koos So there are the instruments of experience and reality processing:
body with its organs of experience and action; mind capturing and
integrating experiencing and reacting to it through memory, needs, impulses;
intellect making sense of the mental rendering and reacting and also reacting
upon the experience on the basis of rationality or its absence, morality or its
absence, reflective thinking on the basis of accumulated templates and
beliefs; and ego identifying with the body-mind-intellect complex and
everything tied to it and separating it from the flowing movement of
existence and experiencing by continuous self-talking, by breaking the
different aspects and components of experience processing and making them
talk or think in an automatic and focused manner. This natural activity of the
ego narrows down the space and energy of attention, restricting it to its own
circle of occupations and preoccupations...Can we see that actually taking
place in us and share on this?
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Kora Koos Memory connecting to the space and energy of mind becomes
the flow of images of past occurrings together with the talking (it's an audio-
visual flow in consciousness). Needs connecting to mind become desires to
acquire and/or become for a sense of fulfilment and the mind talks these
desires out to itself. Impulses connecting to the mind become feelings,
emotions, reactions, demands that contract the attention of the mind in an
exclusive manner. Mind activated by memory, impulses and needs operates
on the principle of seeking pleasure and power and avoiding/escaping pain
and impotency. Mind keeps itself busy through such connections and
principles. It continuously weaves stories and scenarios in an attempt to
survive, expand and enjoy. It keeps telling itself tales in an automatic
manner.
Rajan Sood Koraji, it looks this is the way things are happening at our level
which is unreal. You see the unreal means that it modifies itself with
innumerable variables. But on the whole this is how mind, intellect and ego
are perceiving the reality.
John Wilson It is by knowing that you are not mind, ego, intellect, by deeply
experiencing the Self, that you can keep these instruments in proper tune and
perspective, so that they work harmoniously for the Self and soul (rather
than creating their own needs/desires/aversions). That is why one meditates
and sets such aside regularly.
Rajan Sood John i will go with your way of understanding only. First know
what is real and unreal. Then automatically the unreal gets surrendered and
the Real shines. But who meditates?
John Wilson The divine pure Consciousness is always in meditation; it is a

matter of your faculties becoming aware of that Real Self.
Rajan Sood Sir, my point is the unreal can never be aware of the real. And
the moment unreal falls on natural surrender, the Real shines. Peace and
harmony are the outcomes when the Real shines.
John Wilson I can only comment from my own personal experience. Mind
and body do learn to recognize meditative awareness (and their need for it). I
do not consider mind and body and senses to be unreal, merely much less
than the whole picture. They are not antithetical to spiritual experience; it is
38
just that it takes patient, loving awareness to integrate them into spiritual
life.
Rajan Sood All right sir.
Narinder Bhandari Light needs an object to express itself ................... the

Atma (Nothingnes, the being) needs a body to express itself ....... and an ego-
mind to create the universe of sentient drama.(smile) AUM
Kora Koos Intellect is the storehouse of learned and acquired principles,

standards, values, ideals, cultural norms, rationality, logic, cause and effect
linking, inquiry, beliefs, philosophies, worldviews, that influence our
choices in life, guide our decisions and direct our actions, impulses,
emotions, conscious thoughts. It is a dominant part of the mind space and
energy and pulls attention towards itself when active.
Kora Koos Habitually, the space and energy of the intellect are focused on
background information already stored and valued in memory. These
information are either first-handed experiences or borrowed principles,
values, information that are learned, internalised and incorporated in the
space for referencing and support. Just like mind, intellect talks to itself and
to the other parts of the mind and this talking produces thoughts. Intellect
has also the capacity of fresh, unbiased inquiry when it detaches from the
background information. Its space and energy is then pure, fresh and more
lively; this renders clear learning, understanding and communicating
possible. This becomes possible when the intellect sees the limitations of
habitual ratiocination and sets it aside. So intellect is both an asset and a
liability.
Kora Koos Ego is a sense of being a distinctive unit of consciousness,

separate from the rest of existence. It is thought identifying with a particular
body-breath-brain-mind-intellect configuration and setting the latter against
other configurations in an immense and ever-changing world of experience.
It is a mental image of what the mind-intellect think, believe, perceive and
feel they are on the basis of existing information acquired, assimilated and
incorporated. It is a factor of identification and separation in consciousness.
Being separative, segregative, it is rooted in insecurity and fear. This causes
a constant contraction of awareness or attention when ego is active. Ego may
at one point in time identify with impulses and fight against intellect; it may
identify with memories and move away from mental attention in the now; it
39
may focus on the satisfaction of pleasant desires and neglect any other
business that the present situation requires. Thus, we have multiple egos:
mental egos, intellectual egos, impulsive egos, memory egos, moral egos,
rational/irrational egos, emotional egos, etc.
Kora Koos The egoic mind with restricted awareness always has selective
perceptions/attention; the egoic intellect has selective rationality/morality;
the egoic impulse is always running after personal pleasure, power, profit,
privilege, progress and deploys all forms of defense and attack mechanisms
in case of difficulties; egoic emotions are selective and tainted expressions
of feelings and reactions; egoic memory indulges in selective recalling and
narrating. The ego, what we think, feel, believe and perceive, as an image of
ourselves is thus restrictive, compact, defensive, self-centred and paints a
tainted and narrow image of life, reality, self, others, past, present and
future.
Being rooted in insecurity, ego seeks security. Rooted in uncertainty, it seeks

certainty; rooted in fragmentation, it seeks wholeness; rooted in ignorance or
immaturity, it seeks enlightenment. Rooted in thinking, it seeks silence;
rooted in activity, it seeks rest and poise; rooted in its self-created stories and
myths, it seeks truth; rooted in belief, it seeks faith; rooted in bondage, it
seeks freedom or liberation. This is the inherent duality or contradiction of
the ego. The ego has also a functional, operative aspect closely associated
with the rational intellect that allows it to communicate and relate with other
ego-forms through symbols: images, words and meanings.
Kora Koos So this living body-mind-intellect-ego makes our consciousness,

being conscious of something. All four are instruments as well as objects of
experience and consciousness. They project reality and are part of the
projected phenomenal reality, the relative world. What comes first is the
living body with its organs of experience and action. As the organs become
operative and functional, awareness manifests, through awareness conscious
experience takes place, which then becomes consciousness as captured,
processed and stored by the instruments of the living organism.
Kora Koos Let us take the example of a newly born baby. It experiences
itself first as living awareness, which is uncentred, unbounded,
undifferentiated, as it's mind integrates every experience in awareness
without identification, segregation or differentiation. Besides the sensations
animating the awareness and being registered, it also experiences needs as
40
ripples in this ocean of awareness such as hunger or thirst and this need-
ripple immediately triggers off survival impulses that are embedded in the
mind, acquired from anterior generations of experiences and transmitted
through the genetic build-up. It also registers responses and reactions from
the immediate surrounding. All these are recorded in memory bank and
recalled from memory and become the reference points and conditionings
that gradually build competing chambers in the open space of attention or
awareness. This constriction in consciousness leads to the birth of the
individual, the indivisible one becoming two or more. This finally results in
partial attention in the primordial awareness during wakeful state of
consciousness.
Kora Koos The deep sleep is conscious and subconscious attention departing
with the possibility of coming back. At this level, consciousness shuts itself
off and severs all conscious and subconscious contacts with body, mind,
intellect and ego. It is called unconscious state as there is no consciousness,
no reality, no instrument, nothing. This state is essential for the organism to
passively recharge and heal itself. It is a state where life operates without
conscious or subconscious assistance. The intelligent indivisible life
animating the organism and the universe then takes charge of everything.
This unhindered and free flowing of the energy of life replenishes the system
and facilitates healing. Breath goes on automatically, so do sweating, heart-
beating, digestion, digestion, circulation, etc. The real owner of the house is
then alone, doing its work in the organism within the established scheme of
nature.
Narinder Bhandari KK .... narinder would just like to know ...... whether
these thoughts expressed above ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are from , essay, writings or a
Book ............ IF SO, please give its reference so that... it could be read and
gained from...... IF not so...... and these are words written by you ... then
,that is really a great Gift of God, and it is time that you began compiling
and writing these in the Form of a Book and publishing the same. .......Thank
you KK .............AUM
Kora Koos @ Narinderji! Sir, these thoughts are just flowing freely and
spontaneously through the meditative mind and you know its origin. It just
sings the song, afresh, without any motive or desire. It is like the bird
singing completely indifferent to the onlooker, who may be attentive or
inattentive. It just flows naturally and kora just attends and enjoys.
41
Narinder Bhandari narinder feels blessed in knowing it...... and blessed is the
KK self ....... what a magnificent flow from Silence ..... AUM
Kora Koos For sure this is not kora's own making. It is being imparted now
to kora who is just sharing it playfully. U know well the NATKHAT:
playful, virtuous and compassionate.
Narinder Bhandari yes...............AUM
Kora Koos So the indivisible one Life animating, sustaining and allowing
existence to be existence flows also through this organism and is the real
ruler, owner, disposer. This organism is but the universe or existence in a
given conscious form undergoing conscious, subconscious and unconscious
experiences. It is the geosphere taking a conscious form. It is also the whole
biosphere of living entities taking a form through the process of evolution. It
is also human consciousness incarnating in particular body-mind
configurations through the process of procreation. This conscious human
organism is the only living form through which LIFE can experience
ITSELF not through the conditioned instruments of experience but through
the primordial awareness, inherited at birth. This primordial, undifferentiated
awareness, is but LIFE's connection with the conscious mind. Attention is
the key to realisation. Constricted attention, fragmented and segregative,
generates the shadow of LIFE, the ego consciousness. When constricted
attention stops, then the proper conditions for SELF REALISATION takes
place. In the state of total attention in awareness, here and now, the
Enlightening One shines Its Light and there is fulfilment immediately. The
stories, tales and myths disappear leaving space for truth to shine.
Kora Koos So Truth, Life, underlies and sustains reality, which is made up
of real and unreal aspects. Truth shines in the domain beyond both the real
and unreal. It is the cosmic immanent, the absolute transcendent, yet also
embodied individual. Hari Om Tat Sat.
Ramaswamy Sathyanarayanan @KKji, That is why perhaps Lord Krishna,

says Jagat itself is Mithya, though it appears to be SATYAM. As regards
attention being key, my guru puts it in a different form. One should know
"What the Problem Is", "What is it's Extent" and "What is not the Problem".
He would insist that these should close to your heart for a solution. That is
the only way one can develop attention.
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Rajan Sood KKji, your detailed analysis points to the important
understanding that," Consciousness is all there is ". Consciousness makes
both the real as well as unreal. Sticking with unreal means up/down because
of instability and sticking with real is peace borne out of stability.
Ramaswamy Sathyanarayanan
Udharedatmanatmanam Natmana Mava Sadayet
Atmaiva Hiatmano Bandhu Rathmaiva Ripuratmanah ll 6 – 5 ll
It is now clear thanks to your elaborate and powerful explanation for
Attention being key, it does not sense for one to try to focus on his negatives
to remove the ills that confront one, rather concentrate on the positives. One
needs to develop more positives, perform his duties as laid down in his
Varna Ashrama. The catch is negatives (Vasanaas), it should move away
from one and not the other way round.
Kora Koos The key is attention, which is meditation: attending to any arising
in consciousness and any occurrence in existence as captured by the
instruments of experience without any conscious reaction or avoiding of the
actuality of what is. The door is awareness, integrated attention in awareness
and the vision through the open door is truth, underlying, sustaining,
allowing everything. Vasudevam sarvam iti, purusha evedam sarvam,
sarvam khalu idam brahma--Oneness, Nondual, Experiencing.
Kora Koos @Rajanji! Dear this is not just analysis. It is seeing what is, here
and now as it is revealed in awareness without a seer, knowing without a
knower....
Kora Koos So what is false? False is all the egoic stories, tales, unverified
beliefs, hasty conclusions, shortcut explanations, mythologies that are
concocted through limited attention and held as true and real. One has to see
the false as false for the false to disappear. The seeing itself is the doing,
without a doer.
Steve Kane Well Kora - i have started apparently from that state and only
read the Gita properly (having owned an almost unread copy for 20yrs) in
the last few months. Most of my comments on Mji's status posts were sight
unseen - yet he reacted as if i had long studied it. Either we have all read it
before or else as i said at the time "it is as if there is a city that i have lived in
and explored for many years (lifetimes?) and suddenly come upon a map of
that city, accurate to the last detail. That map is the Gita.
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Kora Koos Rajanji! The should is a contraction of attention, a movement
away from the actuality, from the fact. This is not philosophical
understanding; it is immediate, direct seeing, which has an action of its own-
an action ungraspable by mind, intellect, ego. This seeing is intelligence,
right action and compassion. See it, sir, not intellectually, not
philosophically, but actually, meditatively, relaxingly, with full attention.
Kora Koos @Steve. Sir, this is not just about Gita; it's about life, reality and
us as we inquire and learn with a fresh and curious mind, ready to err and
restart.
Steve Kane .... and perhaps the blessing of many lifetimes of growth and in
my case in this lifetime - just enough glances through the window into past
lives to own their lessons and avoid their pitfalls "been there - done that".
Kora Koos Rajanji! Pause and look directly, immediately at the mind,
beyond concepts about what the mind is. Then direct seeing has an
immediate enlightening action, which comes through the attentive mind but
which is not of the mind. It is really difficult to convey through words. The
confusion is apparent only to the mind that sees through some lens. With due
respect sir!
Steve Kane Yes K i could say that too - but you could also say what i say -
like i say
Kora Koos @Steve. Two guruless learners on the same pathless journey,
enjoying the panorama and sometimes smiling, singing, dancing or doing
just nothing. Or wash the dishes, sing with our beloved wife as we see the
clouds passing through the blue sky while enjoy the universing and
experiencing.
Steve Kane Yes K - but i like to share with you - and with fb i think that
sharing is to see each other teach - and still to be taught as we teach.
Kora Koos Guru is one: Kshetragnya, Adhiyagnya, ever and ever. The Light
behind the veil, the Enlightening One, ever and ever.
Kora Koos Tathastu!!! Visarjanam (Leaving). Hari Om Tat Sat.
Miriam Strauss We should empty our cups. Thank you
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Ramaswamy Sathyanarayanan @KKji, "Key is Meditation". Meditation is
not that easy. Assuming that it is easy, will it be able to burn away the
results of your karma? In fact Meditation is so difficult, that VIVEKA
CHUDAMANI, it is told, the first step towards mediation is "Silencing the
tongue" How does one explain this?
Rajan Sood Koraji, thanks for acknowledging my participation in this post

of yours. I was busy today so could not read your comments properly which
will be doing now.
Om Kiran @Kora Koos.......i really would like to see this Question

answered......for me what came from deep within me has been the
Gita.....there is an Arjun inside me..and there is a Krishna whose flute seems
to sing to me, when the Arjun finds himself on the Kurukshetra......and
something tells me, that We are the temples in whom resides the Supreme
force, the Force manifests itself within us and around us.....in evry atom of
Creation, is its Being felt....we cannot confine its presence to a mere
Murthy....or a temple.....
Kora Koos @Kiran. You said it clearly dear! Embodied, immanent &
transcendent. Vasudevam sarvam iti. Where is IT not? It underlies, sustains,
animates, allows, absorbs, enlightens, covers, encompasses, and IS
everything, anything, something and nothing. This can never be approached
intellectually or verbally. It is felt when the Enlightening Light of
Undifferentiated Awareness shines in the sensitive, alert, receptive and
attentive mind, that is not engaged in some attention constricting activity.
Kora Koos @Ramaswamyji! Sir let us forget everything others have said
about meditation. It is their own personal views and difficulties. Let us start
with where and what we are. Meditation is being aware of any arising in
consciousness, just paying attention to our inattention or lack of attention
without any form of judgment or reaction. If we judge and react, even that
should be attended to. We should never seek to create silence; this is a form
of egoic contraction trying to impose its own petty conditions on what is
actually happening. This letting-go and allowing of what is happening in
consciousness triggers a flame, that consumes the conditions and factors
constricting attention. This is the strangest of miracles, by doing nothing,
things begin to change. Have you ever heard of Ikshana Kriya, whereby
chaos becomes total order by the very compassionate looking of Narayana?
If before we begin anything we hold views that it is difficult, then it becomes
45
a self-fulfilling prophecy. The key to silencing the tongue or talking, which
is a constriction of attention, is meditation: giving full, undivided and
unjudgmental attention to whatever is happening and whatever is being done
by the different aspects of consciousness in the process. Let us try it and see
for ourselves; we might be surprised by the immediate results!
Rajan Sood Very good Koraji. This is total acceptance leading to surrender
of ego to our own mighty consciousness.
Kora Koos @rajanji! If we look very closely, when there is total acceptance
or attention to what is actually happening both with and without personal
interference, there is no contraction of attention, thus no ego, no need to do
anything, not even surrender, there is Being, Knowing, Loving,
Experiencing, Universing without a centre or focus. This is Samadhi or
samatvam.
Samatvam yoga uchyate-Gita 2.48.
Tasmad yogaya yujyasva, yogah karmasu kaushalam-2.50.
Rajan Sood Now since we are living in duality and having glimpses of
unicity, this merging of small i into the I AM is not total. This gives the
glimpses of home and not the entry in the home. The final entry whenever
that happens is totally on the Grace.
Rajan Sood Koraji what i want to submit is that with the Unreal instruments
you cannot experience Real. How can shadow know its source. Any attempt
is going to fail miserably. ----------. At the best what we can do is accept the
happenings and know for sure that if the Grace is there then the Surrender of
mind will happen.
Kora Koos Summary as requested by a friend. We have observed and

examined the 4 instruments of experience processing-body, mind, intellect,
ego- seen as creators of reality as experienced from and by a given body-
mind configuration. Each instrument was actually observed in its mode of
functioning. It was seen that the space and energy of the mind, which is
attention, is affected by impulses, needs, emotions, reactions, thoughts,
reflections, memories and narrations. We have seen that the actuality of
reality is what is happening now.
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Kora Koos Through fresh inquiry using the intellect, the capacity of
observing and reflecting, unburdened by previously held borrowed beliefs,
conclusions, philosophies, stories about self, world, reality, etc, it has been
seen that the space and energy of the mind's attention gets contracted when
there is focus on particular aspects using a focused lens. The space and
energy also gets expanded through detached observation, wordless
witnessing and relaxation. Seeing actually the factors constricting attention,
the unburdened mind-intellect or consciousness undergoes a qualitative and
subtle change. Instead of being instruments of egoic constricted experiences,
they start to act as instruments of awareness through keener and relaxed
attention to what is actually happening now in consciousness.
Kora Koos This detached relaxed observation with attention open to

awareness is meditation, where already the space and energy of
consciousness is surrendered to awareness. As there is no contraction of
attention and an allowing of what is happening to happen, there is no
holding back to anything, no focus, no centre, no sense of separative
identity, segregating actual experiencing as it flows. There is the Light of
undifferentiated awareness enlightening every movement in experiencing,
every arising in consciousness. So there is Awareness enlightening the
movements of consciousness in its multiple forms and states. This
enlightening, though never ceasing at any moment, is nonetheless reflected
in consciousness only when attention of the mind is unfocused, relaxed, still
and unbounded.
Kora Koos Movements of intellect, impulse, need, memory, senses, arising

in conscious attention or consciousness, are immediately enlightened.
Words, feelings, thoughts, memories, conversations... arise and flow in
consciousness and are enlightened as they are and for what they are by the
Wordless Immutable Witnessing Allowing Pervading, Sustaining Boundless
Light. There is no sense of doership or experiencership for these are only
linguistic and grammatical constructs developed for communication purpose
and have no real substance or existence. Consciousness is involved in doing,
behaving, feeling, reacting, responding, etc and Awareness naturally
enlightens consciousness. Consciousness is seen as ever-changing while
Awareness reveals itself as immutable, ineffable Light.
Kora Koos The sense of I or Me is a thought built around biographical

information and is thus born well after the birth of the organism as shown in
the newborn baby's case. It has no real substance. It is but a grammatical and
47
intellectual construct that makes communication and exchange possible. If
one looks with an unburdened intellect and attentive mind for the sense of I
or Me, one finds none but the thought saying I. In clear actual seeing, the I is
not. There is only Awareness, natural, ever-present, original, primordial
enlightening consciousness and experiencing in all their forms and states,
whether wakeful , dreamful, sleepful, and especially meditative state.
Koosraj KORA VENCIAH

koosradha@gmail.com
Mauritius
48

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FB DISCUSSION ON LEARNING & NOT-KNOWING

Kora Koos 2.11.2010

Kusum Padma it is possible if we agree to become an empty glass while we

Kora Koos Kusumji proposes three conditions: consent to become empty,

Kusum Padma all these 3 can be achieved.....coz i am personally

Kusum Padma we can if we stop the interference of our thoughts...through

Kusum Padma anybody can become an Arjuna...it is a state which can be

Umesh Davda many thanks Kora ji

Let us go to Chapter eighteen of Bhagavad Gita. Sri Krishn asks:

"Have you, O Parth, listened intently to my words and, O Dhananjay, is your

And then says Arjun:

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtirlabdhā tvatprasādānmayā’cyuta

Mark here the used word..."smritirlabdhā".....recovered

"Achyuth ! Because of Your grace, my passion is destroyed, I have......

So make the discussion more interesting keeping these into considerations in

Kora Koos Nashto (destroyed) mohah (delusion) smriti (memory or

Expressing in words , perhaps, becomes the the limitation........... OR ..........

Personally, though, all the evolution of Interpretations, newer and newer

SO …….. what do words matter ! LOL

Yeah.That's true. After a certain... stage, even physical communication with

Guru catches the impulses whether righteous or unrighteous of every

What an amazing experience...? Which can not be shared or shown to others

Narinder Bhandari Ah, KK ……….“When the spiritual flame is ablaze in

Narinder Bhandari Becoming The Buddha ... narinder's present experience

Kora Koos Dwarkaji!Chap3.V43: O mighty armed! Thus realising That

Kora Koos Vasudevam sarvam iti............

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Kora Koos

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Kora Koos,

Nice coverage of a very interesting footage.

Sri Krishn says in Bhagavad Gita:

Knowing the Soul-subtle and in every respect mighty and meritorious, we

Possessed of knowledge of the unmanifest and yet mighty Soul that is

May I never forget the brahman,

Absorbed in the brahman, may I realize the dharma,

Om, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.

PS please notice the emphasis on Brahman NOT forgetting the self .

Rajan Sood There is no learning required only unlearning. There is no doing

Kora Koos Rajanji! Impressive! Learning means accumulation and

Mrityunjayanand Jee I was not part of discussion. Hence it should be got

Rajan Sood We concluded that mind is unreal and so stands abandoned.

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Rajan Sood,

".....We concluded that mind is unreal and so stands abandoned...."

cancalam hi manah krsna pramāthi balavad dirham

So Arjun is apprehensive that trying to restrain it is going to prove as futile

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Kora Koos,

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Rajan Sood,

"....Why do you forget that Krishna concluded the BG similarly by telling

I remember each words of Bhagavad Gita and every thing am trying my

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Kora Koos,

Mrityunjayanand Jee Yeah..and that should be also. I agree. And that is we

That is in my regular practice,...nothing new and I try to intervene only when

"....Through this process of fresh, open, unburdened, free inquiry, real

Mrityunjayanand Jee Rajan ji,

Rajan Sood Wait a minute Koraji.

Kora Koos ok sir

On a similar tree, the subservient-self sits grieving, absorbed, deluded by its

Om Kiran yes..the starting at the level of Arjuna is important, to comprehend

Om Kiran this thread of yours fascinates me, Kora....it gives expression to

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Rajan Sood,

And then he says:

If God is real....how HIS lower nature may be called "Unreal"? Is God's

Kindly guide me if I am misleaded some where in presenting my views.

Kora Koos Moreover, Adhiyagnya is always seated as the Enlightening