@ColinTGraham Hello everyone and welcome to today's #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:31:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283168990740481 - #2

@stefras @ColinTGraham Hello Colin. Glad to be here. #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:31:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283266789310464
7528 - #3

@ColinTGraham As always, if it's your first time, try not to keep up with everyone, it can
sometimes move fast!
ast! Don't forget the hashtag --> #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:32:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283367611990016 - #4

@ColinTGraham If your tweets are protected, you may want to unprotect them so they
appear in the #mathchat stream.
Mon May 30 19:33:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283710961909760 - #5

@ColinTGraham Today's topic is "Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

student
curriculum in mathematics?" #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:33:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283794533425152 - #6

@stefras @KTVee Hi. Thank you for RTing the #mathchat today. It is on right now! Come
join.
Mon May 30 19:34:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283862242066433 - #7

@ColinTGraham @stefras @tj007 Hi, Shawn and Tim, glad you could join us!#mathchat
us!
Mon May 30 19:34:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75283932039479296 - #8

@ColinTGraham We were a little undecided last time about how far the students should
be driving the curriculum... #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:35:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284140727078912 - #9

@stefras @ColinTGraham I think we were a little undecided on what student-driven

student
meant. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:36:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284372286210048 - #10

@ColinTGraham One view that seemed to emerge was that it may be more easily
achieved in primary environments but teacher needs to 'direct' #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:36:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284377868845058
7528437 - #11

@magicalmaths Hello to everyone in #mathchat , looking to network with like minded

maths teachers.
Mon May 30 19:37:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284646065209344 - #13

@stefras @ColinTGraham Perhaps this is because we try to fit so many topics into the
HS curriculum that we on't spend time exploring math. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:37:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284662976659457 - #14

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @ColinTGraham @stefras Agreed, and we also seemed unsure whether we were talking
about a prescribed
cribed content or something completely 'free-form'
'free #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:37:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284718123352064 - #15

@ColinTGraham @magicalmaths Hi glad you could join us. #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:38:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284856145321984
7528 - #16

@KTVee Does student driven mean kids move at their own pace & apply skills in real
world situations? #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:38:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75284887963316224 - #17

@stefras @KTVee I think we meant students get to decide what they want to learn and
how, within the curriculum bounds. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:38:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285059665530880 - #18

@ColinTGraham @KTVee That was basically the nub of the discussion, and we didn't
really pin anything
ng down last time... #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:38:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285085410164737 - #19

@reallara @ColinTGraham Always been a 'core of skills & knowledge' maths girl.
Although lots of use of pupil choice in activities #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:39:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285171703779330 - #20

@cherrylkd @ColinTGraham #mathchat how can students drive it if they don't know what
they need to learn. I'm confused by this.
Mon May 30 19:39:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285274762035200 - #21

@stefras @cherrylkd I was stuck on that last Friday too. #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:40:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285419096424448 - #22

@ColinTGraham @cherrylkd One suggestion

suggest was that students brought in problems or
puzzles to work on and you just 'go with the flow' #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:40:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285444589404161 - #23

@delta_dc I'm not sure students know what they need to know. Teachers need to provide
direction but students can drive the exploration. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:40:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285453774921728 - #24

@MrHonner I think independent research projects

projects are a good place for math to be
"student-driven". #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:40:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285504249180160 - #25

@stefras RT @MrHonner: I think independent research projects are a good place for
math to be "student-driven". #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:40:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285540110483456 - #26

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @peterflom @ktvee Student driven means teachers teachers act like sherpas, kids climb the
mountain. Joy of participatory learning http://ow.ly/5675e #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:41:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285623673597952 - #27

@MrHonner But research projects are difficult to manage themselves, much less in a
class of 30+,
0+, with too many topics to cover already. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:41:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285709895901184 - #29

@stefras @peterflom Nice analogy. #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:41:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285724483694592 - #30

@ColinTGraham @cherrylkd My view is that when a student/group/class appears to show

an interest in something, it would be good to be flexible
fl #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:41:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285740854059008 - #31

@cherrylkd @ColinTGraham #mathchat I see. Teacher picks topic as usual? I like it

Mon May 30 19:41:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285805391822848 - #32

@reallara @ColinTGraham That's a good idea as far as engaging but not sure you would
cover everything that way and difficult to plan for #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:42:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285863449370624 - #33

@ColinTGraham @peterflom @ktvee We decided decide that mathematical tour guide was
another good description for the teacher's role in this scenario #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:42:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75285933703962624 - #34

@stefras @cherrylkd Or a list of topics, stations, curriculum upfront,

upfront, students decide how
they want to learn. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:42:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286016533082112 - #35

@peterflom @colintgraham Cool. And the Kaplans (featured in link in last tweet) are tour
guides par excellence #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:43:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286213782798336 - #37

@ColinTGraham @MrHonner @reallara One suggestion I made was w to have list of, say,
100 items & you say prove/show/explain by the end of term #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:43:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286268774322177 - #38

@KTVee well, u cant teach student-driven

student driven math when kids are tethered to a text book and
worksheets #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:43:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286273186729984 - #39

@delta_dc @reallara @ColinTGraham

@ColinTGraham Do we need to cover everything? Is it enough to
help learners to develop skills so they can explore? #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:43:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286291964628992 - #40

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @stefras @reallara Planning is the big problem. I also have a problem with subs. The kids
know what they have to do! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:44:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286442997334016 - #41

@KTVee @MrHonner collaborative projectd make it easier to manage #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:44:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286504078983168 - #42

@delta_dc @ColinTGraham @peterflom @ktvee I like math ambassador - introducing

new learners into the culture of mathematics. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:44:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286527021821952 - #43

@peterflom @delta_dc
delta_dc You can't POSSIBLY cover everything! So, better show kids HOW
to explore #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:44:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286565752012800 - #44

@ColinTGraham @cherrylkd There's also no reason why the students couldn't pick the
topic... provided the teacher can see the maths in it! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:44:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286588329955328 - #45

@cherrylkd @ColinTGraham #mathchat agree. I've been known 2 carry into a literacy
lesson if its worthwhile. Maths can b hard, don't stop the learning
Mon May 30 19:45:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286615987208193 - #46

@reallara @delta_dc Exploration is very important but I feel there needs to be a core
entitlement of knowledge/skills too #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:45:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286710413570048 - #47

@stefras @delta_dc This would be a good idea. Teach the Math underlying the content.
But then there is the curriculum.... #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:45:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286747893862401 - #48

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham @reallara This would be great if there were a clear reason
why the class needed to learn/prove these 100 things. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:45:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286754822852608 - #49

@peterflom @colintgraham There is one reason kids should not pick topic: They don't
know what the choices are #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:45:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286805238386688 - #50

@delta_dc Is this the

he student driven part? >> MT @peterflom: You can't POSSIBLY cover
everything! So, better show kids HOW to explore #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:45:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286838260137985 - #51

@ColinTGraham @KTVee That's the idea, abandon the textbook as the 'primary' focus of
direction, just use as one of many resources... #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:46:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75286903485767680 - #52

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @MrHonner @KTVee Sometimes collaborative projects are harder to manage than
individual ones! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:46:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287077159305216
752 - #53

@delta_dc @reallara Is it possible to cover the core content? Can we do it through

engaging activities? #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:47:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287112450183168 - #54

@KTVee it is better to learn math in solving REAL problems, than because Bill and Sally
ate 3 ice cream scoops each on page 12. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:47:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287119454679040 - #55

@peterflom @delta_dc Well, it's ALL student driven. But maybe the math teacher is a
travel
ravel agent more than a tour guide...... #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:47:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287170188980224 - #56

@ColinTGraham @peterflom There is mathematics in most things though... maybe at first

teacher provides a number of topics, but by JHS...? #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:47:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287202724188160 - #57

@stefras @MrHonner I think the curriculum

curriculum upfront lets the kids know what they need to
master, then 100 questions, projects, etc. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:47:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287203663716352 - #58

@peterflom @delta_dc teacher/tour guide points out many great places to go, kids decide,
then teacher books a flight :-) #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:48:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287366847315968 - #59

@delta_dc @stefras Are you saying the curriculum and the content are different?
#Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:48:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287369812688896 - #60

@MrHonner Ideally students wouldn't pick a "topic"; they'd define a problem they wanted
to solve, then develop the math needed to solve it. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:48:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287413009817600 - #61

@ColinTGraham @reallara @delta_dc The key is making sure that students are aware of
what forms the core, or the functional numeracy if you like #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:48:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287449965830144 - #62

@stefras RT @peterflom: @delta_dc teacher/tour guide points out many great places
p to
go, kids decide, then teacher books a flight :-)
: #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:49:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287618585231360 - #63

@KTVee @MrHonner thats funny, i find independent overwhelming, guess its all what
works for particular group of kids #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 19:49:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287685572460544 - #64

@MrHonner @stefras @ColinTGraham Are the curriculum goals 'meaningful' to the

students? I'm not sure they're meaningful to me! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:49:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287689955512320 - #65

@peterflom @colintgraham I was thinking of more "pure" math topics. Kids in JHS don't
know group theory and number theory EXIST #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:49:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287731604963328 - #66

@reallara @delta_dc I'm sure it is, but not sure how easy to do that if student driven.
Need a balance #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:49:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287773409579008 - #67

@delta_dc @peterflom I don't know. Learners need models - how does that fit the guide
idea? #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:49:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287796377595904 - #68

@ColinTGraham @KTVee There also has to be space for some mathematics, as

mathematics. Sometimes the 'real' bit is part of mathematics itself. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:49:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287802585161728
7 - #69

@stefras @delta_dc N. I am sying that the curriculum provides a cover story for teaching
patterns and processes,
rocesses, Math rather than math. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:50:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75287871120093185 - #70

@peterflom @delta_dc Models are a tiny part of what learners need. Like learning art or
music. Most is exploration #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:50:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288087596515328 - #71

@delta_dc @reallara I agree. Balance is key. But too often we put

put covering content
before doing math. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:50:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288105703325696 - #72

@MrHonner @KTVee Ind. can be overwhelming--reqs

overwhelming reqs a lot of modeling and practice. But
it can be so hard to enforce accountability in groups! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:50:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288105292283904 - #73

@stefras @MrHonner They're meaningful

meaningf to the government. #curriculumgoals And they
pay us. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:51:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288217049513984 - #74

@cherrylkd @ColinTGraham #mathchat so just abandon the curriculum at certain times?

Mon May 30 19:51:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288234665590784 - #75

@ColinTGraham @KTVee @MrHonner There seems to be some evidence from creative

arts that a certain amount of structure helps with 'freedom' #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 19:51:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288270174560256 - #76

@ekendriss Hi! My students driving process now. Chose from 20 or so topics; present to
each other on Wed. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:51:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288284665876480 - #77

@delta_dc @peterflom I like an apprenticeship model myself. This can still be learner
driven. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:52:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288427553239040
752884275 - #78

@bucharesttutor Good Night Twitterville wherever you are :) very exhausted otherwise
would have joined you all in #mathchat :) Have a nice evening
Mon May 30 19:52:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288454572945408 - #79

@ColinTGraham @MrHonner @stefras There's the whole question of how curriculum

content is 'decided' too, and by whom, and why... #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:52:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288494515290112 - #80

@stefras @delta_dc Teachers provide models of good math, bad

bad math, math they do not
have an answer for. Students explore. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:52:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288502547390464 - #81

@reallara @delta_dc Important for children to discover that its about patterns, problems
and exploration, rather than finding right answers #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:52:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288527058907136 - #82

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham @KTVee I totally agree. Gotta learn the rules before you
can break them! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:52:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288541231452160 - #83

@downrightdave All about balance, you need inquiry, practice, and be willing to adapt
and change mid lesson if needed. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:53:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288630691758080 - #84

@delta_dc @ColinTGraham @reallara Modeling the content and processes so that they
can use them to extend their own understanding. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:53:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288697704153088
752886 - #85

@peterflom Is math an art or a craft? #MathChat

Mon May 30 19:53:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288729668943872 - #86

@ekendriss data collection, game playing, art projects,

projects, learn new software, traditional
research...many possibilities for projects #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:53:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288795267858432 - #87

@stefras Why not? So long as the curriculum is covered. RT @cherrylkd:

@ColinTGraham #mathchat so just abandon the curriculum at certain times?
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 19:54:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288874393411585 - #88

@ColinTGraham @ekendriss Hi Kay. It's great you have that sort of freedom/flexibility.
What age group are you working with? #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:54:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288883151118336
752 - #89

@delta_dc @reallara That's important for a lot of adults as well. Including some math
teachers :-( #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:54:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288966882009088 - #90

@peterflom @mrhonner @colintgraham @ktvee I wouldn't have believed this was false
until I saw it http://ow.ly/567tx #MathChat
#MathC
Mon May 30 19:54:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75288999480147968 - #91

@ColinTGraham @bucharesttutor Hi Vijay! Bye Vijay! ;-)

; #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:54:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289008967647232 - #92

@delta_dc @stefras Yes. An authentic apprentice experience. #Mathchat

Mon May 30 19:54:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289080639922176 - #93

@ColinTGraham @reallara @delta_dc A big part is also the idea of how answers
are/could be found and communicating ideas/results with others too #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:55:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289231899099137 - #94

@delta_dc Both, and more >> @peterflom: Is math an art or a craft? #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:55:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289290015383552 - #95

@reallara @delta_dc Yes, sadly so true #mathchat

Mon May 30 19:55:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289294289371136 - #96

@stefras I think it is both. Don't most arts turn into craft with expertise. It is also science.
scie
RT @peterflom: Is math an art or a craft? #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:56:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289460505448449 - #97

@downrightdave @stefras Math is also a language, and needs to be learned just like any
other language. #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:56:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289548640358400 - #98

@ColinTGraham @downrightdave Sometimes the willingness to change chan or adapt mid-

lesson is there, but lacks long-term
term support. More of a "one-off"
"one #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:56:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289567003021312 - #99

@ekendriss coolest thing ever--video

ever video by Geoffrey West this weekend that ties many of
the topics together. trying to decide how to use it. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:56:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289583306289152 - #100

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @ColinTGraham Yes... ;--)) RT @peterflom: Is math an art or a craft? #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:57:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289668656177152 - #101

@peterflom @delta_dc I agree, actually. But the inspiration to learn the craft comes from
the beauty of the art. We work ass-backwards
ass .... #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:57:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289690126819329 - #102

@stefras Neat! RT @delta_dc: @stefras Yes. An authentic apprentice

experience.#Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:57:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289689287958528 - #103

@delta_dc Some of this depends on what we think it means to do math. I often start out
with the following survey: http://t.co/PKaj9St #Mathchat
Mon May 30 19:57:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289761203499008 - #104

@ekendriss Hi Colin. I've got high school seniors, primarily. Now that they are done with
their AP exam, I have them do something different. #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:57:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289816853520384 - #105

@peterflom @delta_dc ..... we teach craft, and kids are supposed to get art on their own.
Or we ignore art altogether. #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:57:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289848826691584 - #106

@cherrylkd @downrightdave #mathchat Agree. I changed mid ofsted lesson & was
praised
raised for doing so. If it's not right it's got to be changed or ch fail
Mon May 30 19:58:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289936152117248 - #107

@KTVee there is math in everything we do, patterns, relationships, prob.

solving#mathchat
Mon May 30 19:58:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75289944150638593 - #108

@ColinTGraham @ekendriss Ah... post-examination!

post examination! I suspect they wouldn't respond so
well if they had a big test coming up! #mathchat
Mon May 30 19:58:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290055744290816 - #109

@peterflom @downrightdave I disagree about math being a language. If it's a language,

let's hear the Gettysburg Address. Or "I love you" #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:59:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290218034511873 - #110

@ColinTGraham @delta_dc We've covered the idea of what mathematics is in a few

#Mathchat sessions too!
Mon May 30 19:59:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290330118897664 - #111

@stefras @peterflom So how would we fix that - teach art then craft. And fit that into what
we must cover in curriculum. #MathChat
Mon May 30 19:59:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290348900990976 - #112

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @KTVee @cherrylkd @ColinTGraham I like to think of it as "expanding" the curriculum
#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:00:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290392991510528 - #113

@MrHonner @peterflom @delta_dc The inspiration to learn the craft is often practical in
nature. But it is certainly an art, as well. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:00:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290395675852800 - #114

@cherrylkd @stefras @ColinTGraham #mathchat fabulous idea. As long as its covered in

a year it doesn't matter when
Mon May 30 20:00:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290416261509120 - #115

@mathonthemind RT @colintgraham: Yes... ;-)

; ) RT @peterflom: Is #math an art or a
craft? Or is it a #language? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:00:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290435098132480 - #116

@delta_dc @ColinTGraham What was decided and how does it relate to the student-
student
driven curriculum? #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:00:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290573375934464 - #117

@stefras @peterflom Math is a language and like all languages it reflects

refl a culture. This
goes to teaching art vs craft. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:01:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290655504613376 - #118

@ColinTGraham @peterflom @downrightdave Mathematics has a number of ways of

'looking at things', notation, syntax which are very language-like
language #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:01:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290685477093376 - #120

@ekendriss tried self-direction

direction last year prior 2 AP exam. many were uncomfortable with
it. worked well for some. discontinued toward end #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:01:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290683451256832
752906834 - #122

@peterflom "Math isn't a language, it's an adventure" Paul Lockhart in "A Mathematician's
Lament" Best math ed book http://ow.ly/567Ei #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:01:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290775386193921 - #123

@ColinTGraham @delta_dc You'll have to go back to the #Mathchat archives for those
Dave! But play, exploration, communication of ideas, concepts...
Mon May 30 20:02:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75290995478114304 - #124

@MrHonner We have constructed a language to model, interpret, and communicate math,

but that it something different than math itself. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:03:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291230703067136 - #125

@ColinTGraham @ekendriss Maybe one option is to have a mixture... with some taught
sessions for those
se who want them and freedom for the others #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 20:03:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291233748123650 - #126

@peterflom @stefras I think that Bob and Ellen Kaplan have the right idea ....
participatory learning. http://ow.ly/567Hw #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:03:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291234683469825 - #127

@delta_dc @ColinTGraham Thanks for the brief synopsis. Promise I'll be caught up on
my #mathchat topics in the future. ;-)
;
Mon May 30 20:03:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291328610713600
7529132861071360 - #128

@stefras @ekendriss @ColinTGraham #mathchat There here is a learning curve to student-

student
driven as well. Many students reluctant to take control. Confused.
Mon May 30 20:03:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291353260630016 - #129

@ColinTGraham @stefras @ekendriss There is certainly likely to be more success the

longer the students have been in a self-directed
self environment #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:04:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291552259375104 - #130

@stefras @peterflom What is the differnce between

between participatory learning and student-
student
driven learning? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:04:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291616738414593 - #131

@oldak @ekendriss Self--direction

direction takes a while to adapt to if kids are used to standard
authoritarian teaching. All-or-nothing...
nothing... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:05:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291700297347073 - #132

@delta_dc @stefras @ekendriss

@ekendriss @ColinTGraham True. They do not know what to do
when they first take the wheel - learned helplessness. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:05:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291819503661056 - #133

@downrightdave @ColinTGraham in 5th grade my teacher handed me a pre-algebra

pre
book and had me sit in the back and teach myself,
myse good teaching? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:05:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75291876768485376 - #134

@ColinTGraham @cherrylkd @stefras I think in this idea of 'coverage' we need to provide

opportunities for reusing skills learned in other areas #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:06:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292020041723904 - #135

@stefras @delta_dc But that is part of the process.

process. After all do we want to "create"
creative leaders or passive followers even in math? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:06:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292029508263937 - #136

@KTVee @stefras @ekendriss @ColinTGraham do u think its better to ease kids into
student-driven
driven math? where 2 begin? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:06:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292053734559745 - #137

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @ekendriss agree! MT @delta_dc: @stefras @ekendriss @ColinTGraham True. Don't
know what 2 do when they first take the wheel - #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:06:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292078250270720
752920782 - #138

@delta_dc @oldak @ekendriss We need to help student consumers to become creative

learners. This requires support,
rt, choice, and modeling. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:06:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292134571393025 - #139

@peterflom @stefras I am not sure exactly what people mean by 'student-driven'

'student learning
#MathChat
Mon May 30 20:07:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292155467411456 - #140

@ColinTGraham @cherrylkd @stefras We'd also need to make sure that lots of
connections were made too. Maybe the core is the "concepts" #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:07:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292230776143872 - #141

@stefras @ColinTGraham It is all about connections. ie. reusing skills in different areas.
#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:07:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292249990250496 - #142

@delta_dc @ekendriss @stefras @colintgraham We are back to the need for an

apprenticeship model. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292431775576065 - #143

@ekendriss @ktvee just do it. jump in! try it & tweak it. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292443330871297 - #144

@frogphilp @peterflom 'Student-driven'

'Student driven' is a bit strong in my book. It's best when teacher
and student negotiate the learning goals together.
toge #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292450767372288 - #145

@ColinTGraham @downrightdave Could be good teaching if you were ahead and knew
you could ask for help whenever needed... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292463706808320 - #146

@stefras @KTVee Ease in yes. Start with an intriguing problem to solve and let them at it
with lots of guidance. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292490634244096 - #147

@ColinTGraham @downrightdave Rather than 'good teaching' though, I would ask if it

was 'good learning'? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292583517102080 - #148

@oldak @delta_dc @ekendriss We're talking about the framework in which mechanisms
mecha
for support, choice, modelling are different,aren't we? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:08:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292605226819584 - #149

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @stefras @peterflom Neither do the rest of us. What IS student-driven
student driven learning?
#MathChat
Mon May 30 20:09:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292670486003712 - #150

@peterflom @delta_dc Of course "apprentice" requires a "master". Many

Man math teachers,
esp. in elem. school, are not close to that #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:09:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292862845157376 - #151

@ColinTGraham @delta_dc @stefras @ekendriss The 'learned helplessness' is an

attribute which can be addressed through guided learning, though #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:09:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292863688216576 - #152

@stefras RT @ColinTGraham: @downrightdave Rather than 'good teaching' though, I

would ask if it was 'good learning'? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:10:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292940502695936 - #153

@delta_dc @oldak Tell me more... I think a student-driven

student driven curriculum requires all of those
things. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:10:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292950816489472 - #154

@KTVee this is also about good ol' Blooms - kids evaluate & analyze problems rather than
just collecting knowledge, they actually use it #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:10:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75292988678479873 - #155

@ekendriss @delta_dc yes, but now students can apprentice w/ variety of people. mine
might skype with artist whose work--their
work inspiration. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:10:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293058899521536 - #156

@ColinTGraham @ekendriss @delta_dc @stefras The idea of "taking the wheel" is an

apt metaphor... remember learning to drive a car, if you did? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:11:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293211509264384 - #157

@peterflom @stefras Hehe. Hehe. I do know what I mean by "participatory learning" that's what
the linked article is about. http://ow.ly/567Tc #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:11:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293271672369152 - #158

@delta_dc @peterflom See @ekendriss point. I'd add that we need to consider
conside ways to
mentor elem teachers in math as well as kids. #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:11:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293313187577856 - #159

@oldak @delta_dc Right, I agree. Problem is that students take a long time to adapt to
student-driven, if used to teacher-driven.
driven. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:11:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293366551715840 - #160

@ekendriss @peterflom @delta_dc

@delta_dc all teachers, whatever level, should be master
learners. #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 20:12:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293418204577792 - #161

@frogphilp @peterflom Agree with elem teachers problem - but not so in some countries.
Hungarian maths teachers are well qualified for elem. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:12:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293478111821824 - #162

@stefras @delta_dc @oldak I agree. Plus more: student interest, engaging problems or
projects, plenty of support. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:12:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293485422489600 - #163

@downrightdave @frogphilp Some of us elementary teachers are trying ;) #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:12:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293564506083329 - #164

@delta_dc @oldak Not sure it takes that long - especially if it is done explicitly.#mathchat
explicitly.
Mon May 30 20:12:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293592079437824 - #165

@peterflom Learn math the way you learn to draw, sing or play the piano. By doing it
badly. With teacher to help #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:12:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293631715610624 - #166

@frogphilp Interesting formative maths teaching

teac from Hungary: http://bit.ly/jatzsC
#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:12:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293645426802688 - #167

@ColinTGraham @KTVee Yes, and the cognitive ability to analyse, evaluate, create, etc.
needs a basis of knowledge/comprehension to build on #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:13:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293798577618946 - #168

@frogphilp @downrightdave I meant no offense. I'm elementary too. UK-based

UK though -
we call it Primary... :-) #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:13:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293809302437889
752 - #169

@stefras @peterflom Yes, but during this chat we do not have time to read the article.
Capsulize it please. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:13:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293861366337536 - #170

@frogphilp RT @peterflom: Learn math the way you learn to draw, sing or play the piano.
By doing it badly. With teacher to help #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:13:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293880223936512 - #171

@delta_dc Sorry #Mathchat - got to run and pick up the 'puppy' from the kennel. Solve
this problem for me while I'm gone. I'd appreciate it ;-)
;
Mon May 30 20:13:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293878307143680 - #172

@reallara @delta_dc Moving away from 'learned helplessness' in all situations is essential.
So frustrating #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:13:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293898494312448 - #173

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @peterflom @downrightdave That's why I didn't say
s "all". :-) #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:14:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293930320703488 - #174

@downrightdave @frogphilp None taken at all, just saying it takes all of us, and I'm
attempting to do my part. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:14:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75293952869285888 - #175

@ColinTGraham @oldak @delta_dc You may also be fighting against societal pressures
and
d expectations about how mathematics "should be taught" #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:14:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294128149245952 - #176

@stefras Agreed. RT @peterflom: Learn math the way you learn to draw, sing or play the
piano. By doing it badly. With teacher to help #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:15:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294164350287873 - #177

@earlsamuelson RT @peterflom
eterflom Learn math the way you learn to draw, sing or play the
piano. By doing it badly. With teacher to help #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:15:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294172311072768 - #178

@SusanDElia check out how QuantumCamp connects the dots with "conceptual
stringing" of hands-on
on math + science => brilliant
brillian http://ow.ly/567Xu #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:15:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294206712745985 - #179

@delta_dc @reallara Yes but possible. I did this #TEDx about it http://t.co/18Q9mXFNow
http://t.co/18Q9mXF
I'm gone! #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:15:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294247116476416 - #180

@oldak @delta_dc If motivated group of kids, easy enough. But if they are a group of kids
who have learnt to oppose & defy, harder. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:15:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294274232651776 - #181

@earlsamuelson ........and learn

lea from mistakes @peterflom #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:15:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294314145648642 - #182

@stefras @peterflom I had a teach who called that "let them drown" then teach them to
paddle the canoe. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:15:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294325004709888 - #183

@peterflom @stefras OK, learn math the way you learn to draw or play the piano,
piano or play
basketball. By doing it badly, with teacher to help #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:15:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294337436626944 - #184

@ColinTGraham @frogphilp @peterflom The Finnish system also requires Masters level
education from primary teachers, not 'just a certificate'... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:15:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294352812941312 - #185

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @ColinTGraham @delta_dc We'll do world peace while we're at it too, Dave! #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:16:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294516369829888 - #186

@frogphilp Youngest children require the highest pedagogical skill for best results. That's
unless it's just a 'baby-sitting
sitting service' #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:17:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294704719237120 - #187

@peterflom @stefras Hehe. Well, drowning a bit much. But ever hear a beginning
violinist? It ain't pleasant! :-) #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:17:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294720682758144 - #188

@ColinTGraham @reallara @delta_dc Sugata Mitra's "Hole in the Wall" showed how a
'free' lesson could work with just a few questions
ques to stimulate #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:17:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294857018613761 - #189

@oldak @ColinTGraham @delta_dc IMO, "mathphobia" related to being forced to sit still
& undertake cognitively-demanding
demanding abstract thinking #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:17:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75294868469071872 - #190

@peterflom MT @frogphilp: Youngest children require the

the highest pedagogical skill for
best results. unless it's just 'baby-sitting'
sitting' #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:18:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295031493275648 - #191

@stefras @frogphilp I think older children need pedagogical control as well. I hate when
programs for elem is dropped for JHS, SHS. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:18:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295160212271105 - #192

@ColinTGraham If the teacher works well for you, not all do... @peterflom Learn math the
way you learn to draw, etc... With teacher to help #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:19:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295291749838849 - #194

@peterflom @colintgraham Good for the Finns! #MathChat (Finland has VERY low rate
of illeteracy, BTW).
Mon May 30 20:19:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295317377024000 - #195

@frogphilp @stefras Agree, but at the moment maths graduates who teach all head into
JHS, SHS rather than elementary. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:20:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295569861550080 - #196

@reflectivemaths @stefras @peterflom Agreed too. There's still work to be done in

convincing
g ppl that maths doesn't = arithmetic #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:20:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295574387204097 - #197

@ColinTGraham @frogphilp And they also need to have been exposed to the
fundamental concepts of mathematics by age 7 or so... to stand a chance! #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:21:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295774698782722 - #198

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @peterflom RT @reflectivemaths:
@reflectivemaths: Agreed too. There's still work to be done in convincing
ppl that maths doesn't = arithmetic #mathchat /Amen!
Mon May 30 20:21:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295875479502849 - #199

@stefras @ColinTGraham In Western Canada we are adopting a new curriculum that

emphasizes problem solving; basics reinforce along the way. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:22:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75295962578427904 - #200

@peterflom @reflectivemaths Arithmetic is to math what spelling is to creative

writing.#MathChat
Mon May 30 20:22:27 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296030517772288
752960305177 - #201

@stefras @ColinTGraham The problem with that is that in English teaching grammar
through writing does not produce good results. So leary. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:22:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296150185459712 - #202

@SusanDElia Kills the spirit too RT @oldak mathphobia related to being forced to sit still
& undertake cognitively-demanding
demanding abstract thinking #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:23:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296201611804674 - #203

@reflectivemaths @ColinTGraham @frogphilp @peterflom I'm taking an MEd. Doubt it'll

make me a better teacher #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:23:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296241608704000 - #204

@peterflom @colintgraham What ARE the "fundamental concepts of mathematics"?

#MathChat.
Mon May 30 20:23:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296274169077760 - #205

@ColinTGraham @stefras It's easy for a lot of less confident teachers

teachers in the UK to use
the Natnl curriculum as a crutch, rather than a guide. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:23:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296382814134272 - #206

@peterflom @reflectivemaths I think an MA in math would help more #MathChat

Mon May 30 20:24:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296462245871616 - #207

@oldak What about hidden direction in the learning of math? Computer

Compute games which
covertly teach. Still teacher-driven,
driven, but coercively so. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:24:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296465358032896 - #208

@stefras @reflectivemaths I took a Dipl. Ed. It did make me a better teacher all round.
B.Ed. did nothing to teach me how to teach. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:24:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296553811705856 - #209

@SusanDElia +1 RT @peterflom: @reflectivemaths Arithmetic is to math what spelling is

to creative writing. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:24:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296582957924353 - #210

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @reflectivemaths @peterflom I like that. CREATIVE writing. You can always use spell
check (aka calculator) #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:24:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296608757096448 - #211

@ColinTGraham @peterflom We covered some of those in the #MathChat about the

"progression of big ideas in mathematics"
Mon May 30 20:25:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75296771177328641 - #212

@reflectivemaths @peterflom I suspect a Phd in maths would give me a good

understanding of what doing maths actually is #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:26:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297013054455809 - #213

@stefras @reflectivemaths BUt kids don't know how to do arithmetic. I refuse to let kids
use calculators unless trig, stats, other table... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:26:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297047011540992 - #214

@ColinTGraham @oldak Why is the computer game necessarily teacher-driven?

teacher Going
up a level is basically a response to improved student skill... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:26:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297076577181697 - #215

@ColinTGraham @reflectivemaths @frogphilp @peterflom But you ought to be a better-

better
informed teacher after the MEd... I'd hope ;-)
; #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:27:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297338280779776 - #216

@stefras @ColinTGraham
nTGraham But someone (a "teacher") wrote the computer game. So not
student-driven. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:27:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297367200497664 - #217

@stefras @ColinTGraham So I agree with @oldak. COmputer games are covertly

teacher-, programmer-driven. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:28:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297654480965632 - #218

@ColinTGraham @stefras The game would be one choice amongst many that the
student could use to explore a topic, though... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:29:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297682058510336 - #219

@oldak @ColinTGraham A computer game for learning math is still teacher-driven

teacher
because it entails a course/structure defined by a teacher
teac #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:29:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297689729908736 - #220

@frogphilp The book all primary / elementary teachers should read. #mathchat
http://post.ly/27tsr
Mon May 30 20:29:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297805182308352 - #221

@frogphilp @reflectivemaths I'm doing the MaST course, which counts as

a 1/3 of a
Masters and it's already made me a better teacher. #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 20:29:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297818104963072 - #222

@peterflom @stefras Why do kids need to learn arithmetic when they have calculators?
#MathChat
Mon May 30 20:29:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297875977973760 - #223

@frogphilp @reflectivemaths Maybe I wasn't that good to begin with

w though... ;-)
#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:29:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297901399646208 - #224

@ColinTGraham @oldak Yes, in that sense, if it is a pedagogical game. Aren't all games
driven by their rules though? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:29:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297919430963201 - #225

@SusanDElia To be meaningful and to master, math needs to be hands-on hands and

contextual
ontextual to life itself (art, science, architecture, history...) #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:29:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297919946850305 - #226

@stefras @ColinTGraham BUt is given the student a choice between teacher-driven

teacher
projects/stations student-driven? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:30:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75297978570637313 - #227

@ColinTGraham @SusanDElia Exactly.Exactly. You have to get behind the wheel of a car and
steer it and push the pedals to learn to drive it.... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:30:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298103825154049 - #228

@stefras @peterflom Batteries. #MathChat

Mon May 30 20:30:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298132522577920 - #229

@oldak @ColinTGraham I was thinking of a math course that was game-based.

game Diff
between linear & sandbox video game :) #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:31:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298244439187456 - #230

@frogphilp Here's the maths 1/3 Masters thing I'm doing at Edge Hill University:
http://bit.ly/juRjwc #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:31:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298276282347521 - #231

@peterflom @stefras :-) #MathChat

Mon May 30 20:31:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298334214078464 - #232

@ColinTGraham @stefras Yes, if the student is the one who decides which particular
resource or approach they choose. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:31:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298362026504192 - #233

@ekendriss I'm enjoying the discussion about games and whether they should be
considered teacher-driven
driven or student-driven...#mathchat
student
Mon May 30 20:32:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298467530014720 - #234

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @SusanDElia @ColinTGraham exactly! Why is this so difficult for institutionalized
education to understand? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:32:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298625873391617 - #235

@ColinTGraham @ekendriss Games and puzzles are a very important part of building
mathematical skills, I think. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:32:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298665924800512 - #236

@stefras @oldak Game based math course sounds great. Also games whose gates and
rules are math based. Can't advance if can't master math. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:33:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298701609934848 - #237

@ColinTGraham @SusanDElia
@SusanDElia What's worse is that institutionalized Education thinks
you can learn mathematics by watching videos.... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:33:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298891054055424 - #238

@reflectivemaths @ColinTGraham @stefras How can a student choose approaches they

don't know about? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:34:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298970796175360 - #239

@stefras Happened to some people I knew in University. Batteries die. Can't do. Oops!
RT @peterflom: @stefras :-) #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:34:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75298997664890880 - #240

@g4r37h @SusanDElia some of you might be surprised at the apathy we've had from
some teachers towards our GBL resource www.learnalot.com
www. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:34:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299094301642752 - #241

@ColinTGraham @SusanDElia So, why no Khan Academy video for learning to drive a
car...? Get your 'Gold Star' & you can go on the roads... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:34:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299181593493504 - #242

@frogphilp It's not solely maths based, but here's what @oliverquinlan
@oliverquinlan writes on
negotiated scaffolding at his school: http://bit.ly/ihOpCr #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:35:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299230817845248
7 - #243

@oldak @stefras Analogy: "Typing of the Dead" by Saga. Arcade-

Arcade-style zombie game
designed to teach touchtyping.
htyping. Can't advance w/o learning #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:35:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299288741187584 - #244

@stefras @ColinTGraham Games and puzzles are math. Actually any problem which
requires deliberate systematic solving or posing is math. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:35:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299295959584768 - #245

@ekendriss @colintgraham agree. sad is the math student who hasn't been exposed to
games & puzzles in their math classroom. #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 20:35:27 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299304243335168 - #246

@peterflom @colintgraham That's like learning the piano by watching others play Won't
work #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:35:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299351618011136 - #247

@reflectivemaths @stefras These days

days I'm less convinced it's vital that kids need to
know arithmetic #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:35:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299382798467072 - #248

@g4r37h not all teachers see value in #gbl despite the evidence of its effectiveness
(increased test
st results, student enthusiasm for math) #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:35:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299403170189313 - #249

@ColinTGraham @reflectivemaths @stefras That would be part of the teacher's role. List
possible approaches and/or challenge students to find out #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:36:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299473223462912 - #250

@frogphilp @g4r37h what's

what' #gbl? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:36:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299557470240768 - #251

@stefras @reflectivemaths That is why the teacher needs to lay out the objectives or
outcomes out at the beginning. Then comes the fun. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:36:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299596775071744 - #252

@reflectivemaths @stefras @ColinTGraham Do we count snakes and ladders as maths?

#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:36:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299671190409216 - #253

@peterflom Grandmother: What should I bring you from Europe? Grandchild "What do
they have in Europe?": #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:36:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299683001581568 - #254

@g4r37h @frogphilp #gbl = game based learning http://bit.ly/kxHA39 #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:37:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299719311654912 - #255

@ColinTGraham @stefras Wouldn't necessarily go that far! Would agree that it is one
mathematical approach if you reason deductively, though. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:37:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299767248355328 - #256

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @reflectivemaths @frogphilp @peterflom I found study def

made me more reflective - sorry missed most of #mathchat this eve
Mon May 30 20:37:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299832897617920 - #257

@oldak Have ave we discussed different personality styles? Some kids might need close
support/direction, while others thrive w/ more self-dir
self #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:38:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299957430693888
75 - #258

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @ColinTGraham @reflectivemaths @stefras Yes, if you make the snakes and ladders
moveable as a "what-if"...
... (Chutes & Ladders in US ;-)
; ) #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:38:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75299980914601984 - #259

@stefras @reflectivemaths You wouldn't believe how many kids can't do trig, algebra,
calculus because they can't do arithmetic. GCF? LCM? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:39:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300226063269888 - #260

@ColinTGraham One issue we are skirting

skirting around is whether this would be whole-class
whole
or individual students doing the curriculum driving... #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:39:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300298003976192 - #261

@g4r37h many students work out concepts themselves when presented with a problem
that they want to solve #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:39:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300418355343360 - #262

@stefras @reflectivemaths Fractions are a big problem in Canada. Why? Kids lack the
ability to factor, GCF, LCM, multiply, divide, add, sub #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:40:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300516254584832 - #263

@ColinTGraham @oldak Learning styles and personal dynamics are very important. As
is a relation to
o individual cognitive development too. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:40:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300611431727106 - #264

@reflectivemaths @Janshs I think I'm already reflective. MEd possibly just recognition of
that. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:40:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300614686523392 - #265

@g4r37h 1 reason the UK continues to fall behind middle and far east is because
be
students here are spoon-fed
fed and unable to problem-solve
problem #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:40:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300622819262464 - #266

@frogphilp Mary Briggs at Warwick University ahs written some good stuff on creativity
and #gbl in maths http://bit.ly/kmVc5j #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:40:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300632386469888 - #267

@SusanDElia @ColinTGraham KahnAcademy is doing gr8 things to flip the classroom,

but now to take down the walls + experience real world math #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:41:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300718927560704 - #268

@stefras @ColinTGraham I like the idea in some cases to challenge students to find out
what the purpose or goal of a "lesson" is. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:41:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300784069279745 - #269

@oldak @ColinTGraham Whole class(i.e. mob)-direction

mob) direction could result in disproportionate
input amongst students.
tudents. Some directed by others. #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 20:41:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300798434775040 - #270

@g4r37h if maths was about regurgitating facts they'd be fine, but it isn't - it's about
problem-solving. #gbl promotes problem-solving
problem #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:41:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300831628500992 - #271

@reflectivemaths @stefras In what way are fractions a big problem in Canada?

#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:41:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75300829841719296 - #272

@stefras @reflectivemaths Chance! Mazes are math. But the key is to systematically
solve or pose, not to run through. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:42:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301026642661376 - #273

@frogphilp @g4r37h They're spoon fed because of league tables. #mathchat There's no
league table for just problem solving.
Mon May 30 20:42:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301027439587328
75301027 - #274

@ColinTGraham @stefras @reflectivemaths But are fractions an important part of life....

we always seem to end up discussing them on #mathchat... ;-P
Mon May 30 20:42:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301053872095232 - #275

@peterflom OK, but if we want kids to learn arithmetic, first show them WHY. E.g "How
much pie is in that slice?" #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:42:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301136915103744 - #276

@stefras @ColinTGraham How about reasoning inductively? #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:43:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301214828494848 - #277

@nancyrubin Math Curriculum Makeover - Dan Meyer discussing makeover of the math
curriculum in TedxNYED session. http://t.co/cvJ7T2g #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:43:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301270990237697 - #278

@ColinTGraham @g4r37h Or they notice an underlying strategy or pattern, even if they

can't identify the concept as a thing in its own right. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:43:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301284189712385 - #279

@g4r37h @frogphilp that's not the only reason i've seen for that tbh. the problem exists in
wales too - no league tables there #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:43:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301290476965889 - #280

@peterflom @colintgraham I sometimes need to take half of something. #MathChat

Mon May 30 20:43:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301448728068096 - #281

@g4r37h @frogphilp league tables shouldn't be made a scapegoat for other, more
ingrained failures #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:44:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301465131991040 - #282

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @stefras @g4r37h Dave Hewitt
He 1999 #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:44:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301529623592960 - #283

@SusanDElia Life skills like sharing begin with fractions ;-)

; ) RT @peterflom: OK, but if we
want kids to learn arithmetic, first show them WHY. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:44:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301641003343872 - #284

@peterflom @nancyrubin As the father of a 3rd grader in NYC,

NYC, I can say the math
curriculum here is AWFUL. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:44:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301655788265472 - #285

@republicofmath Advantage of counting/arithmetic is it's abstract portability. No need to

take 60 people to venue to see if they fit, eg #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:44:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301671445598208 - #286

@ColinTGraham @stefras List

List of 100 items could have: "find three different ways to show
or prove Pythagoras' Theorem" Concept= more than 1 way #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:45:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301710251298816
7530171025129 - #287

@oldak @ColinTGraham @g4r37h We touched on the idea of teaching math through

programming a few weeks ago. Good approach
app to learning? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:45:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301898927882240 - #288

@stefras @g4r37h Ah. The idea of spoon feeding. So is teacher-driven

teacher driven destructive?
Would student-driven
driven fix? What about curriculum-driven???
curriculum #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:45:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75301922604720128 - #289

@reflectivemaths @ColinTGraham @stefras That was my next point. If fractions were

important, kids would be able to do them #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:46:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302142101032960 - #290

@stefras @oldak I think individual project with same outcome goals. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:46:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302160132349952 - #291

@ColinTGraham @oldak @g4r37h It's one approach. We need to avoid the danger
d of
"gamifying" the current curriculum, though, without expansion #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:46:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302194320130048 - #292

@stefras @reflectivemaths I have no idea. I think we teach adding and subtracting of

fractions before multiplying and dividing. Dislike den #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:47:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302388180852736 - #293

@Janshs @reflectivemaths I think you are too :-)

: ) I wonder if there is a link between
reflective ppl & further study anyway? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:47:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302436679589888
7530243 - #294

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @g4r37h @ColinTGraham of course. i don't think anyone claimed #gbl is a silver bullet,
but it's a very powerful string to add to your bow #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:48:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302542183108608 - #295

@stefras @frogphilp What are league tables? #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:48:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302565964812288 - #296

@ColinTGraham @republicofmath And ways of arranging 60 people is to do

d with
groupings and factors etc... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:48:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302591155802112 - #297

@republicofmath Absolutely false, IMO @reflectivemaths @ColinTGraham @stefras If

fractions were important, kids would be able to do them #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:48:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302648370311169 - #298

@peterflom When's the last time you had to add 1/2 and 2/3 and get exact answer?
#MathChat
Mon May 30 20:48:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302676014964736 - #301

@nancyrubin A look at Project-based

Project based Learning: What it is and What it isn't!
http://t.co/mGrEjD4 #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:49:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302719052718080 - #302

@reflectivemaths @stefras I doubt very much that many ppl find probabilities when
playing S+L: or would benefit if they did #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:49:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302750996545536 - #303

@frogphilp @reflectivemaths I like it! Creativity in Maths http://bit.ly/mmaCgD #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:49:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302798098563072 - #304

@republicofmath Kids can do fractions. In my experience it's teachers who can't

#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:49:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302873763807232 - #305

@g4r37h @reflectivemaths there are more games in the world than snakes and
a ladders
#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:49:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302906651353088 - #306

@stefras @ColinTGraham They are an important part of the curriculum. Also, you are
going to hate me, are other forms of math life important #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:50:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302987769188352 - #307

@ColinTGraham @reflectivemaths @stefras You could equally say

say "If numbers were
important, kids would be able to do number theory" ... #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:50:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75302996212334592 - #308

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @g4r37h @republicofmath +1 #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:50:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303003002904576
7530300 - #309

@peterflom As for dividing fractions, we teach that "flip and multiply" rule, but do we show
WHY? My teacherss didn't Not sure they KNEW. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:50:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303006761005056 - #310

@frogphilp @stefras All schools in UK put in order by the results they achieve with
children in national tests at the age of 11 and 16. #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:50:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303024163164160 - #311

@ekendriss thanks--it's
it's been fun. iIve got to go study for my national boards assessment
tomorrow. wish me luck! #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:50:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303080526229504 - #312

@republicofmath Apologies for multiple tweets: Something to do with Firefox #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:50:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303140467023872 - #313

@peterflom I remember teaching myself some probability to figure out

ou StratoMatic
baseball game #GBL #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:51:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303286135193600 - #314

@g4r37h @frogphilp @stefras not all of UK. wales abolished league tables which IMHO
means some schools have become complacent there #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:51:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303366951043073 - #315

@stefras @peterflom @colintgraham Also pizza! I mean come on. One definitely needs
fractions for pizza! #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:51:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303417324634112
753034 - #316

@ColinTGraham @peterflom We have discussed fractions lots! I am going to ban further

mention for the moment!! (Moderator-driven
(Moderator ;-) ) #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:51:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303439193739264 - #317

@SusanDElia Thx for sharing resource RT @frogphilp: @reflectivemaths I like it!

Creativity in Maths http://bit.ly/mmaCgD #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:52:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303511830700033 - #318

@Janshs aha we are back on fractions #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:52:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303530805735424 - #319

@ColinTGraham @ekendriss Yes, fingers crossed Kay! #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:52:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303533154537472 - #320

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @earlsamuelson @peterflom ......working with fractions IS important for later on
though...... #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:52:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303575982583808 - #321

@peterflom We shouldn't
dn't teach math because it's IMPORTANT. We should teach math
because it's BEAUTIFUL #MathChat.
#MathChat
Mon May 30 20:52:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303599864946688 - #322

@antitheistangie RT @peterflom: We shouldn't teach math because it's IMPORTANT.

We should teach math because it's BEAUTIFUL #MathChat.
Mon May 30 20:52:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303623889915905 - #323

@republicofmath http://wp.me/p1mk0j-b
http://wp.me/p1mk0j b @peterflom As for dividing fractions, we teach
that "flip and multiply" rule, but do we show WHY? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:52:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303671142940672 - #324

@frogphilp Sorry. Got to go #mathchat Got a #kidsmeet event to plan...

Mon May 30 20:52:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303675429527553 - #325

@nancyrubin Start With the Pyramid: Real-World

Real World Issues Motivate Students
http://t.co/lkkSTpn via@edutopia #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:53:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303729213083648 - #326

@antitheistangie @peterflom I "see" numbers colliding into each other when I do math in
my head. It's very pretty. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:53:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303766785654784 - #327

@republicofmath Only half the time @Janshs aha we are back on fractions #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:53:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303782711431168 - #328

@reflectivemaths @g4r37h True but I think it's a bit much to state All games are maths
#mathchat
Mon May 30 20:53:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303798234554368 - #329

@ColinTGraham OK, back to our MAIN topic... "Is it possible to have a completely
student-driven curriculum?"... #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:53:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303820082683904 - #330

@peterflom @earlsamuelson It is? How is it important to know how to add fractions? If no

calculator, then yes. But w/calculator? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:53:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303886189113344
75303886189 - #331

@nancyrubin RT @ColinTGraham: OK, back to our MAIN topic... "Is it possible to have a
completely student-driven curriculum?"... #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:53:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303895898927104 - #332

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @g4r37h @reflectivemaths i dont think anyone did say all games are maths - that's why
there's such a thing as "game based learning" or GBL #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:53:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75303954707251201 - #333

@ColinTGraham General consensus from both discussions seems seems to be "Maybe" but
students will need to learn how to be drivers (by doing) #Mathchat
Mon May 30 20:54:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304110668267522 - #334

@peterflom Will "learning fractions" become like "memorizing log tables" used to be? OK,
we need to know what a log IS ... but beyond that? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:54:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304140401688576 - #335

@stefras Again, Pizza! RT @peterflom: When's the last time you had to add 1/2 and 2/3
and get exact answer? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:54:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304194986352640
75304194986352 - #336

@mrsdenyer @peterflom for dividing fractions, we teach that "flip and multiply" rule (Kfc),
but also about reciprocals :-) #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:54:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304218239578114 - #337

@earlsamuelson @peterflom well........I suppose if understanding integration by partial

fractions isn't important, you have a point #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:55:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304287131025408 - #338

@Not2Fear @peterflom i would really like a mathematician's POV on the diff between
what is taught && the natural human capacity. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:55:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304346992132096 - #339

@oldak @reflectivemaths @g4r37h Chess, e.g., is well-described

well described by mathematics.
Unsure if this amounts to "being mathematics". #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:55:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304403963363329 - #340

@nancyrubin Are You Using Wikis in Math Classes: An Online Technology to Support
Student Learning and Understanding | http://t.co/2ERkn0R #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:56:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304530287394817 - #341

@earlsamuelson @peterflom my son happens to want to understand all things

thing with pencil
and paper prior to relying on tech #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:56:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304557332271104 - #342

@ColinTGraham So, in the last five minutes, avoiding any further reference to the f-word...
f
How do the students learn to drive the curriculum? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:56:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304557940441088 - #343

@stefras @reflectivemaths
vemaths But I don't think S+L is a mathemtical game . Other than the
concept of chance or luck. (if .... what). #mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 20:56:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304596603543552 - #344

@g4r37h @oldak sure, and so are lots of other games. not all games though, which was
my point, but the ones at http://bit.ly/ddOwP1 are! #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:56:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304627721084928 - #345

@Janshs @republicofmath it's rational at least .... #mathchat

Mon May 30 20:56:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304656577896448 - #346

@stefras Ha ha ha! How true of most topics. RT @republicofmath: Kids can do fractions.
In my experience it's teachers who can't #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:56:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304698747432961 - #347

@peterflom @stefras Hmmm. I always just think of pizza in slices! If there are 6, then
thirds come in. 8, then quarters. But both? #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:57:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304771610886144 - #348

@ColinTGraham @nancyrubin Wikis were mentioned

mentioned last time, Nancy, and received a
'thumbs up' as a possible approach #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:57:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304803923791872 - #349

@peterflom @stefras and since I like anchovies, I often don't have to share :-)
: #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:57:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304899612655617 - #350

@reflectivemaths @trreed @republicofmath @stefras Just not sure

sure why we always get
hung up on fractions. Why not matrix transformation? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:58:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75304981221220352 - #351

@republicofmath By saying what - in life - truly interests them @ColinTGraham How do

the students learn to drive the curriculum? #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:58:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305085168652289 - #352

@stefras @peterflom I teach why divided fractions need to be flipped and multiplied.
Always, And in several ways. #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:58:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305148167102464 - #353

@reallara Teach them what maths is really about and then encourage them to find real
maths questions/problems/patterns to investigate
inv #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:58:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305227212963840 - #354

@stefras @peterflom If I can't explain why, I don't teach it. It is ridiculous for me to teach
what I can't explain. Explaining is my job! #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:59:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305336499732480 - #355

@ColinTGraham Which part of not talking about fractions did you

you not understand? ...
GRRR... ;-P #MathChat
Mon May 30 20:59:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305387301142529 - #356

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)
 @oldak @ColinTGraham Also, teachers need learn to cede control/teach using a non-
non
pedagogical style. For dynamic to change,both sides must #mathchat
Mon May 30 20:59:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305413544919040 - #357

@peterflom @stefras Oh, if only all teachers

te were like you! #MathChat
Mon May 30 21:00:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305561750634496 - #358

@stefras @frogphilp Student ordering = ____ tables? We do that in Canada. We have

levels of math, science, other core courses. Same grade. #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:00:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305685482614784 - #359

@ColinTGraham @oldak I think that is a good point.

point. Many teachers seem to view the
curriculum as a way to 'control' or dictate what is done when #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:01:00 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305732421066752 - #360

@stefras @ekendriss Good luck. #mathchat

Mon May 30 21:01:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305753438732288 - #361

@reflectivemaths RT @oldak: @reflectivemaths @g4r37h Chess, e.g., is well-described

well
by mathematics. Unsure if this amounts to "being mathematics". #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:01:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75305838176251904 - #362

@ColinTGraham OK, everyone. That's it for another session. Thank you all for your
contributions! Follow new tweeps and @mathchat for updates #MathChat
Mon May 30 21:02:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306052740071424 - #363

@reflectivemaths @g4r37h By making them think they're not doing maths? #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:02:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306082427342848 - #364

@stefras @peterflom We should teach math because it is important AND beautiful.

#MathChat
Mon May 30 21:02:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306172462280704 - #365

@reallara @ColinTGraham Thanks. Great first #mathchat

Mon May 30 21:02:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306230511448064 - #366

@oldak @ColinTGraham The teacher must believe in a student-driven

student driven learning. If
teachers
achers are made to adopt this style, wouldn't succeed. #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:03:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306273377226752 - #368

@peterflom Excellent #MathChat

Mon May 30 21:03:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306316767309824 - #370

@stefras @ColinTGraham No. It is not possible to have a COMPLETELY student-driven

student
curriculum. Students do not know what is out there. #Mathchat
Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven
driven curriculum? (Follow up)
Mon May 30 21:04:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306532203532289 - #372

@Janshs #mathchat stdts driving curric? hmm wd want to avoid 'utility' only stuff - how to
develop a passion for maths? more difficult perhaps ...
Mon May 30 21:04:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306553732902912 - #373

@ColinTGraham We will alternate "How do I..." discussions with a more specific

specif topic for
the next few weeks (get some practical advice in!) #MathChat
Mon May 30 21:04:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306663355236353 - #374

@stefras @ColinTGraham Students also don't know what they are required to do. Once
you tell them, it is NOT completely student-driven.
student #Mathchat
Mon May 30 21:04:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306697886941185 - #375

@daveinstpaul I think we sometimes have to teach math topics that we can't fully explain,
e.g. fundamental thm of algebra. #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:05:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306774835630080 - #376

@ColinTGraham Add your ideas for future discussions to http://bit.ly/jXxS8T

http://bit.ly/jXxS (and
Fractions is already there!) #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:05:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75306908340338688 - #377

@ColinTGraham I'll leave the archiving for about 10 minutes or so, if you want some time
to finish off conversations! Catch you next time! #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:06:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75307194609963009 - #378

@stefras @ColinTGraham I think we need to inrigue them. Get them hooked into
problems. In the course of solving these, they learn curr. #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:08:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75307546751148032 - #379

@stefras RT @reallara: Teach them what math really about & encourage them to find real
maths questions/problems/patterns to investigate #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:09:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75307777223958528 - #381

@stefras @ColinTGraham Some of us are a bit behind in the column. I finally caught up.
#MathChat
Mon May 30 21:09:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75307923718414336 - #382

@stefras @ColinTGraham Thanks Colin. I am not sure we made much headway from last
session. Still stuck on definition. #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:11:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75308435524165632 - #383

@ColinTGraham @stefras It's always the way: we

we end up with more questions than we
answered! Help with the reflection ... ;-)
; #mathchat
Mon May 30 21:12:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 75308625572282368 - #384

Monday, 30th May 2011 Is it possible to have a completely student-driven

driven curriculum? (Follow up)