Muslim politics - Ahmadiyya Muslims and Motamar Alislami Motamar AlAlam AlIslami, Ahmadiyya Muslims and the World

Muslim Congress. http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2011/02/muslim-politics-ahmadiyya-muslim s-and.html An effort was made to connect Motamar AlAlam AlIslami and the World Muslim Congr ess. The response from Motamar was your organization has Qadianis too and Qadiani s are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be an alliance with your organ ization - Sorry . I understand the politics involved in bringing Muslims togethe r. When the Quraan burning incident in Florida was announced, we took a pro-active r ole and wrote the following: Quraan Burning, an appeal to Muslims http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/09/quraan-burning-appeal-to-muslims.ht ml A prominent group of Muslims liked this piece and asked me to reduce it to 600 w ords to run it as an ad in New York Times and get translated in at least 5 langu ages and publish in the local papers. The idea was to mitigate Muslims reaction around the world. We got the work done and had an endorsement from Muslims of a ll Shades including Ahmadiyya. The inclusion of Ahmadiyya endorsement turned the Men from going forward. It was disappointing to the core, an appeal they consider ed will bring positive changes was sacked because of their prejudice towards Ahm adiyya. Does anyone has a gut to stand up? My role Models are Prophet Muhammad, Jesus Christ, Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Lut her King. What I learned from them was a simple fact; If you do something right , meaning something that does not benefit you but benefits others, people will q uestion you and the men in power will oppose you, never think for a moment that you are alone, God is with you when you care about his creation. The thoughts of compromising surfaced many a times and were even encouraged; dum p the Ahmadiyya vocabulary from my work and I will have a ton of support and fun ding to go forward. You can call whatever you want, I chose not to compromise, I will do my share of the work to build cohesive societies without discriminatio n towards any one of Gods creation. I consider the greatest sin on earth is discriminating others because of how eac h one of the 7 billion of us looks, works or talks. As God told Prophet Muhamma d (pbuh) to just do his work and it is up to others to receive it. With all my flaws, Alhamdu Lillah, I am committed to do my share of work. I hope someday, at least in America, our future generation will see the value in coming together a s Muslims regardless of our hues, as humans regardless of our religion for doing good and knowing each other (Q49:13). Its amazing how people are brainwashed, the Pakistan Government declares them to be non-Muslims and many (but not all) Muslims instantly change their heart, as i f they dont have their own mind and keep building on it. The virus has reached th e free Indonesian people as well, even Bangalore, my home town is not free from this divisive politics. Is your religiosity anchored in denying others their rel igiosity? Americans are no exception, whatever the Bush Government put out, many a America ns believed in it, when Reagan called the Russians an evil empire, a lot of Amer icans believed in it and looked at the Russians in that manner. Again, no nation or people are free from this bias, Jesus had said the eternal truth, that no on e can cast the first stone. We have to be truly free people and be independent o f what the Government or the Media bombards us with. The world has indeed become a global community. Everyone is a neighbor to everyo ne else; we aspire to nurture the concept of good neighborliness in the world. O ur advisory board will be represented by individuals from every faith. It is tim e for us to be equal citizens of one world, our home. This is a major paradigm s hift in how the religious organizations would be conducting their business in th e coming years. Our Mission is to work for a world of co-existence through inclu siveness and participation. (http://www.foundationforpluralism.com/WorldMuslimC ongress/Articles/Mission-Statement.asp ) I hear the words of Mahatma Gandhi, keep working.

Mike Ghouse committed to building cohesive societies and is available to speak o n Pluralism, Islam, Cohesive Societies, Peace and Justice. His work is listed in 3 Websites and 22 blogs at http://www.mikeghouse.net/ # # # REFERENCES You are welcome to review over 1000 articles on Islam and co-existence on the bl ogs, but a few related to Ahmadiyya Muslims are enclosed here: Appeal to Indonesia about Ahmadiyya Muslims http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2010/09/appeal-to-indonesia-about-ahmadi .html Muslims condemn murdering fellow Ahmadiyya Muslimshttp://theghousediary.blogspot .com/2011/02/muslims-condemn-murdering-ahmadiyya.html One Islam for Ahamdiyya, Bohra, Isamilia, Shia, Sunni and othershttp://worldmusl imcongress.blogspot.com/2010/04/there-is-only-one-islam.html Ahmadiyya Muslims Among Muslimhttp://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2010/03/ah madiyya-muslims-among-muslims.html Ahmadiyya Muslims, what next?http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2008/04/ahm adiyya-muslims-what-next.html You are welcome to join the discussion group by sending an email to : WorldMuslimCongress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Posted by Mike Ghouse at 3:30 PM Labels: Ahmadiyya Muslims, IslamTogetherfoundation, Motamar Alalam AlIslami, Mus limsTogether, WorldMuslimCongress 88 comments: Haji M Hanif said... Mike Ghouse - First ever meeting of World Muslim Congress and other meetings are held in Mecca where Qadanis do not want to go, t hat may be reason of their exclusion. Cannot do any more. - Almighty is the Judg e of the day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PE ACE (Islam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck - God bless Saturday, February 19, 2011 3:47:00 PM Tariq said... It would be a great service if you could examine the aqeedah of Ahmadiyya moveme nt. It is very likely that they (Ahmadis) have to either clarify or correct thei r aqeedah pertaining to the finality of prophet-hood after Muhammad (PBUH). This in result can facilitate their integration into Muslim mainstream. I hate calling non-Muslims to those who claim to be the Muslim but since I am no t a qualified scholar/jurist I cannot certify them in either way. I have many fr iends who are Ahmadis and my 30 years plus association with them reveals that in general they are decent people but their beliefs have never been convincing to me. I have personally read some of Mirza Sahib s books but did not feel any divi nity. Yet I never treated them as outcast. There declering as non-Muslims in Pakistan was not done by a f pen but through a lenghty religeous and legislative debate I see merit in declaring their beliefs as un-Islamic, I feel ere treated un-Islamically afterward by our Muslim brethern. st fight that I can pick on Ahmadis behalf. dictator s stroke o and process. While ashamed that they w This is the only ju

I am not as eloquent as you are yet I hope I have explained my position to you. God bless you for tolerating me every now and then :)) Tariq Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:07:00 PM HajI M hanif said... Tariq said, well said, this explains true situation. Almighty is the Judge of th e day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PEACE (Is

lam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck - God bless - Haji M Hanif http://wmctrust.blogspot.com/ 1 773 255 9860 1 847 922 4010 hajih12@gmail.com Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:39:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Tariq, I am so happy you touched on three most critical elements: This in result can facilitate their integration into Muslim mainstream. I hate calling non-Muslims to those who claim to be the Muslim This is the only just fight that I can pick on Ahmadis behalf. This paves the way to find solutions, I am speaking in their national conference and will bring this up for discussion. We all need to work on understanding the real differences. Thanks for the note, it is encouraging to hear from a man of your stature. Please be assured that what transpires between you and I will remain as such, we have to find ways to build bridges and keep individuals off from the discussion s. Thanks Mike Ghouse Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:52:00 PM HajI M hanif said... Mike Ghouse - Thanks for understanding to pick conman ground World Muslim Congress: Alternative To Caliphate? - There is no kingship in Islam , Kingdoms in Muslim world is problem. -: http://on.fb.me/eRxXnz We cannot force people to go to Mecca. Haji M Hanif Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:28:00 PM Yoshua Budin said... Thank you, Mike. I must admit that my knowledge of Ahmadiyya is superficial. But I m learning :) I ll spend this sunday afternoon collecting and reading more de tailed information. However it is clear that their human rights are under threat.... And human right s violations are always unacceptable. Whatever the objections mainstream muslims may have against Ahmadiyya, they can never justify violence. Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:58:00 AM Shoket Gulam said... Just like we have the Shia, Shia Imami, Sunni sects getting divided into Wahabis ,etc, I do not see anything wrong with the Ahmadiyaa sect. They have never cause d any problems, I believe, within the Islamic or Religious gatherings. Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:58:00 AM Mike Ghouse said... Yoshua, the contentious issue is that the Ahamdiyya consdier their leader Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as the Messiah and some say he brought in addititional revel ation to improve the human kind. The other Muslims see it as de...valuing their tradtion, which says Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet and no more reveleati ons were to come and that Hazrat Ghulam Mirza is not a messiah. Had Government o f Zia Haq (dictator of Pakistan) not declared Ahamidiyyas to be non-Muslims, the

few sheephish Muslims of Paksitan would not have had that problem, now their re ligion is based on denying others their religion. It is suprising to see how man y, still less, Pakistani people are sheepish to believe in this. Shoket, they live their own lives like every one else. However, they are denied to call their place of worship a Masjid, and they cannot greet another Muslim Sa laam. I am taking this up, because it is a shameful part of Muslim culture (not Islam, as it is anti-Islami) and I will do my part. It is certainly not to suppo rt ahmadiyyas, but to strip the evil from Islam. Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:59:00 AM Shoket Gulam said... Mike Sahib, I agree with you and your sentiments to uplift true Islamism is comm endable. Islam is a religion of peace love and unity and the Holy Quran does pro ve that but the mullahs have caused much unrest by misquotations. Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:04:00 AM Mike Ghouse said... Shoket, it is not just a Muslim Phenomen, it is there with all humanity no matte r what religion they wear. Many of the branches of Christianity do not consider Mormons as Christians, they were indeed persecuted and killed once, even Catholi cs were harassed and persecuted in America. Thank God the laws of our country pr event American Mullahs like Robertson, Falwell and Hagee from imposing their bra nd of religion on others. What we need in Paksitan, Indonesia and Bangladesh (Where Ahmadies are persecute d) is to have the rule of law prevail, one law fro all, then things will get bet ter. Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:05:00 AM Ghulam Yusuf said... Dear Din Shahed With due apology you are committing the same sin as the person to whom you are r eplying and also the Moulvis who have issued the Fatwa against your Jamahat as K afirs. They called you as Kafirs and reciprocally you are calling them Kafirs to o. They based their Fatwa on the premise that you believe in a prophet which the y do not believe. Why all of you cannot live and let live. Let anyone believe in a stone, which he can see, or in an entity for which there is no criterion exce pt blind faith. Let us stop worrying about faith and start doing something good to ameliorate th e miseries of humanity. Religions have created enough and havoc in the world. Le t humanity prevail. And please shorten your replies. Just limit yourself to the email instead of pre aching on this forum, I request. Ghulam Yusuf Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:10:00 AM Mahmood Tahir said... As Salaam to you all, A simple question must be asked of all Muslim s, in that have ahlimah of "There is no god but Allah", which is requested of in the Glorious Qur an. Now if all Muslim s have recited this , then whom but Allah Subhanahu wa ta ala can say whom is not interpretation of what Islam is or not.

Let us take the Sunnah of Salat as seen by all Muslim s. There is the fard part

they recited the K all believers with to become Muslim s a Muslim by their

of Salat required by Allah Subhanahu wa ta ala but whom will say what extra Sala t undertaken is accepted or not. If we do it because the Prophet (pbuh) did it, then is from our heart or from our mind as an action just because he did it, or do we do it for our Lords sake in love of Him and Him alone? I undertake extra S alat in service of Him and not just because the Prophet (pbuh) did it and it cer tainly comes from my heart and love of Him. Any one who labels himself as anything other than just being a Muslim has wander ed away from the path of truth, for in their very actions they have set up a div ision between themselves and all other Brothers and Sisters in faith. If they ha ve set themselves a label stating that we alone have the truth and all the other s are being mislead, then it is them who are misleading themselves. We are but M uslim s plain and simple, so get used to the truth as defined by Allah Subhanahu wa ta ala. Wa Salaam Mahmood Tahir Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:11:00 AM Shah Abdul Hannan said... What Mr Yusuf has written is just looking at a serious matter in a simple way. H e does not know what havoc the Ahmadis have done to the Muslim Ummah through fal se propaganda. Mr Yusuf has unnecessarily demeaned the role of religion .We know what secularis m and materialism have done in the last two hundred years in terms of corruption , exploitation of poor people and nations ,spreading of vices and immorality. Th ese are no solutions, these are diseases. The solution is moral behavior and lif e which only religion can bring if applied properly. Please read the attached article, if you like. Shah Abdul Hannan Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:12:00 AM Mike Ghouse said... Shah, The Wahhabi and Taliban ideology (not Muslim or Islam) is doing more damage to t he idea of Islam, idea of peace and justice and they are causing the right winge rs in other groups to hurl insults against Islam. On the other hand the Ahmadiyya Muslims are doing to uplift the image of Islam b y doing good things in the neighborhoods they live. The question is are you free from government influence? Are a few Muslims free t o think independently? Just because the dictator signed the law to declare Ahmad iyya not to be Muslims, many a Muslims have come to believe in it. Had it not ha ppened, none of this would have come about. I urge those Muslims to free themsel ves from shackles of igorance and set the example of caring for life, respecting for life that God says in so many ways in Quraan. Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:25:00 AM Mike Ghouse said... I am speaking a conference about issues facing the minor denominations within re ligion and will learn how they have handle it. Sunday, February 20, 2011 Ridwan Young said... I m Muslim. I m living in . I myself feel so sad to ir own point of view. All 11:44:00 AM Indonesia. I m really so sad for what s happening here know that we, the people, try to rule others using the of us, both Islam or Ahmadiyah worship the same God. D

...iscriminating others is an awful crime. We don t have any right of Judging. I t s all God s. God is always be with those who believe in Him. God never teaches us about killing, harms, etc. It s written in Quran that God only be with those who makes no harms to others. My religion is mine. Yours is yours. As long as, we do good things, I do respect all religions. And I prefer to respect an Atheis t than a man who believes in God but still makes harms to others. Peace begins f rom each of us Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:33:00 PM Yoshua Budin said... Mike, indeed Ahmadiyya relates to Islam as Mormons relates to Christians. Good c omparison! They are not the same, but they are closely related. One reason why such related religions often clash is proselytizing. I had all so rts of missionari...es at my door, in an attempt to convert me. I don t hate the m for it, but it can be annoying if someone gives you the feeling that you are a lost soul that has to be saved... :) Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:34:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Yoshua, I can see the prosleytizing aspect within Christianity, indeed, about 15 of us from different religions meet once a month for lunch and we rotate the ch urch. Invariably the Mormon Rep says, none of us will be involved in proselyti.. .zing... interesting now that you made the point. However, I am not sure if the Ahmadiyyas make an effort to convert the other Mus lims? I know they don t but have to verify it. But certainly the representatives of Christianity and Islam are aggressive proselytizers, as if that is all their purpose in life is. Neither Christ nor Muhammad said to convert people, they sa id to guide people to the righteous path. Indeed, the Prophet shared God s word that you need not worry about the religion you follow, and its specific - Jews and Christians and others need not worry ab out God, God knows what is in ones heart. Religion was secondary here, but bein g a good human was primary. Prophet Muhammad appealed to his own uncle to conver t and he did not, God tells the Prophet, your role is to share what you know and it is upto others free will to choose. In reality there is no need for any one to proselytize, but we all need to work together to create a better society, where we respect the god given uniqueness o f the other and that is religion to me, and that is Islam to me. Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:34:00 PM Mrs. M. A. S. said... I was born to parents who are members of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat. I always thoug ht I was a Muslim but after reading all this it looks like some people don t thi nk I am one. Throughout my life I have tried my best to follow all requirements of Islam (fro m Holy Quran, Hadith, and Sunnah). What should I do to be accepted? Kind Regards, Mrs. S Can I recite Shahada? La ilaha illallah, Muhammad ur Rasulullah". Am I a Muslim now? Or do I have to go and kill an Ahmadi child or burn their property? Is that what the Holy Prophet Muhammad would do? I know someone who steals, drinks, and has committed adultery but everyone consi ders him a Muslim. If that were Islam then I would rather be a non-Muslim :(

Kind Regards Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:36:00 PM Irshad Alam said... Look! Lets use our brains! Is there any reason why Muslims dont want the Qadiani /ahmadiyyas to call themselves Muslim in public? Some may be guided by intoleran ce only. But to many the reason is that they want to protect the Muslium communi ...ty from conversion based of false advertisement. If they honestly claimed, "Y es! according to our beliefs, we re indeed Muslims but except us, all the Muslim s consider us to be out of Islam" then there would not be a problem--- only Musl ims who want to leave Islam would go to them. But the problem is fraud and decep tion--- they fraudulently convert Muslims into their religion or sect or whateve r u may call it. even in USA, its illegal for Scientologists outside the mainstream church to cal l themsleves scientologists. did u know it? They enforce the law as the name Sci entologist is trademarked/copyrighted to their Church. also in UK, it is the Chief Rabbi who decides if someone is Jewish. If he can do so, why cant the parliament of Pakistan or the governments of other countries? There was a brouhaha in Bangladesh and the Qadianis, US govt and many others cla imed that Qadianis r being persecuted. Well they were not being persecuted in th e practice of their own religion--- they were being forbidden by the "agitators" only from publicly claiming that they r Muslims and converts others through tha t fraud and decept ion. also they were being forbidden tro call their houses of worships mosques and mis lead the public. How is their religion being harmed if they call their house of worship "Ahmadiya house of worship"? In Islam there is no strictute that u must call a house of worship a mosque/masjid. there r many other synonyms: jami (ie a ssembly hall), in bengali (juma-ghar) and many others--- so they wont lose their religion if they call it "ahmadiyya house of worship" or something else Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:24:00 PM Haji Hanif said... Please reefer your remarks I understand the politics involved in bringing Musl ims together in response to my comments your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as suc h there cannot be... an alliance with your organization - Sorry As explained fir st and subsequent meetings are healed mostly in Mecca and for the people who den ies to go to mecca, how you can force them to come and join Motamar AlAlam AlIsl ami (World Muslim congress) meetings. It is in no way politics, it is their choi ce not to be in mecca for attending meetings. Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:25:00 PM Irshad Alam said... also they were being forbidden tro call their houses of worships mosques and mis lead the public. How is their religion being harmed if they call their house of worship "Ahmadiya house of worship"? In Islam there is no strictute that u must call a house of worship a mosque/masjid. there r many other synonyms: jami (ie a ssembly hall), in bengali (juma-ghar) and many others--- so they wont lose their religion if they call it "ahmadiyya house of worship" or something else Chief Rabbi of UK is not just a rabbi, He s a UK govt officer so if the govt of pakistan creates a Muslim BOard and they declare the Qadianis non-Muslim, will that be OK to u, yoshua? the UK govt uses the Chief Rabbis classification to determine who is a Jews IN O

RDER TO give govt services to the Jews eg preferential admission to a govt-funde d Jewish school remember that the UK govt uses the Chief Rabbis classification to determine who is a Jews IN ORDER TO give govt services to the Jews eg preferential admission t o a govt-funded Jewish school. Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:28:00 PM Yoshua Budin said... A chief rabbi, or a Muslim board, Roman-Catholic bishops, the counsil of churche s, etc... they all exist in most countries. But they are *not* part of the gover nment. They are *recognized* by the government as a medium between the ...religi ous community and the government. They have no legal authority. They cannot make a government favor one religion o ver the other. They cannot make the government impose "religious laws". There are countries where religious authorities are intertwined with the governm ent, but right now the prospect for these governments don t look very good... (r efering to Algeria, Morroco, Libya, Jordan, Yemen, Iran...) Politics and religio n should not mix. Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:29:00 PM Haji M Hanif said... I am a Muslim - Prophet Muhammad PBUH is Muslim There is no reason to add denominations. Simple way is to follow the leader Prop het Muhammad PBUH. There is no place for politics in following Islam. Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:29:00 PM Yoshua Budin said... I look into that. I can imagine that there are holes in the system. And I m also aware that clever people will exploit these shortcomings for their own benefit. Such things should however not be possible. Constitution and law must be indepe ndent from religions. I found it very fast. Indeed it seems that the UK allowed this school to give pr eference to Jewish applicants -- by law! :-O Shocking. In most European countries such a school would never get 1 cent from t he government... But then the Britis...h stull use pence and pounds instead of c ents and euros. They were always an odd bunch... Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:31:00 PM Haji M Hanif said... Quran / God / Allah s audience is mankind Denial of the commandments is personal action to be answered to God, We the peop le does not have any authority to make judgments. Ahmadiyis have chosen to be out of main stream, that is their choice, your attempt to bring them in main stream will be resented by them. Civility, Islam, national and International laws prohibits interfering into other business or to create disturbance in others lif e. Ahmadiyis attempt to convert us to Ahmadiyya religion is a violation of Civil ity, Islam, national and Intern...ational laws, that has to stop. Christens and Ahmadiyis push very hard to convert us by saying that we will go in the hell if we don not convert, that is insane, unless that stops, others will act likewise resulting in unnecessary conflicting situa tion.

Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:32:00 PM Yoshua Budin said... Haji, that is something that intrigues me: is there evidence that Ahmadiyya has an *aggresive* conversion policy? I don t know. That is why I already brought up the issue of proselytizing (see some post higher up) :) Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:34:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Irshad, Yoshua and Haji, Yohsua, I know the Ahmadiyya community fairly well and I have visited their mosq ues thrice, had broken the fast with them in Ramadan as a part of visiting all t he mosques... and have spoken to two interfaith gathe...rings...they do not agre ssively proselytize at least with the Muslims as some of the Muslims are bellige rent towards them. Irshad, thanks for sharing about the story of chief Rabbi of UK, I am amazed tha t it happens in a democracy. That does not make it right, the Israel lobby can m ake anything happen, if not the representatives congressman and senators will pa y for it and will be harassed. The world condemns occupation in Israel, the US a nd UK do not have the guts to do the same. We have to go beyond and find what is righteous. By the way I am one of the supporters of Israel and defenders of Jew s and Judaism but have spoken against the wrong things they do as individuals an d Israeli Government. However, in Islam the central authority is God, no one but him/her/it judges in the matters of faith. He alone judges who is worthy of his grace or not, what ap pears sinful to us may not be to him in the overall scheme of things. Even Proph et Muhammad will not come to your rescuce if you you have wronged. There are say ings of prophet to back this up as well. As a society you can judge the rapist, theif, adulterer etc and punish them, but not one s faith in God. Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:36:00 PM Rashid Makhdoom said... Mik: As regards Ahmedis, I think the right approach would be to talk to one of their learned person or invite him to join this discussion group. I have an Ahmedi liv ing in our neighborhood. He tells me that Ahmedis believe in, and recite, the sa me Quran that was revealed on Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), they do not have any other or different Quran. He recited the Qalima for me that was exactly the same Qalima as we recite and according to him they do their salat exactly the way we do. The only difference probably is in the interpretation of some Ay ahs of Quran where they say a prophet (without a revealed book), subordinate to Prphet Muhammad, can come to propagate the deen of Prophet Muhammad. The way I u nderstand him is that the only difference is in the status of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed . They say he was a prophet of Allah whereas we do not. Rashid. Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:51:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Rashid, Indeed, I picked up a copy of the Quraan from the Ahmadiyya Masjid, and it is th e same as in any one of the mosques; shia or sunni. You are right again, a few v erses are interpreted differently. That is the case with every one, while 99.99% of Muslims interpret the verses as respect for humanity - a few, i.e.,less than 1/1000th of 1% interpret in radical terms, guess what media reports? There are thousands of Christians, Jews and Hindus that say and write beautiful things, gu ess what the media picks - the bad guys among them.

They read the same Kalima and pray exactly the same way as the Sunnis do.. I hav e prayed with them at least three times. This is a political ploy by a few who wants to have a weak enemy that they can h arass. If they have the guts take it up with the Talibans or the Wahhabis...We a ll have to work for this, at least remove the belligerency towards Ahmadiyya, it is not a healthy thing. The Ahmadiyyas on the other hand are uplifting Islam. I will invite the Ahmadiyyas to join the discussion as more and more Muslims are taking an inhterest in this Sunday, February 20, 2011 5:02:00 PM Haji M Hanif said... In a hurry (In Karachi) I went in one mosque to pray, many people approached me to say this is Qadani Mosque and asked me wil l I still like to pray their, I replied yes as the land belongs to Allah not to any one else and I ...prayed their by myself. My son have one friend, he is Qadani, My son and him are friends for over 35 yea rs, he use to pray with my son in our Mosque, they never had a problem. In my world wide Business life (Steel, Ship Breaking & ered by Qudanis - However on facebook they taught that of my non denominational Muslim Beliefs, they bothered th no choice but to delete every one who was bothering e my religion. Trading) I was never both I am easy target because me a lot which left me wi me, by asking me to chang

I suggested you to join hands with Motamar AlAlam AlIslami and (World Muslim Con gress) but fact remains Qadanis refuse to go Mecca and want us to change our rel igion from Muslim to Qadani, that is against all laws, thats why I had to drop the Idea. As far as human rights are considered all are equal and no one should be harasse d including me because of my beliefs as a Staunch Muslim and Muslim alone with n o denomination - For a person like me who have represented all the Muslims of th e world, does not suit to be denominational, I want to remain Muslim only MUSLIM following my only leader Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Leave me alone - I am answerable to Almighty no one else. Sunday, February 20, 2011 5:56:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Alhamdu Lillah Haji, You expressed my words, I am a Muslijm and just muslim with no denominations pre fixed or suffixed. The only Islam I know is the one taught by prophet Muhammad. Division was likely to happen and indeed it happened as prophesized by the proph et. The big umbrella for Islam with the widest meaning is belief in one God (one rea lly means onness of humanity, universe, people and life) to function cohesively with the God given diversity.. I will have to verify about the proselytization, first of all it is political ra ther than spiritual. We all have the responsibility to make better humans out of us, that was the real purpose of religion. Then again if all the Ahamdiyya do t hat, it will be wrong, but if a few did because of your openmindedness, we have to discount that, as it is statistically insignificant. Sunday, February 20, 2011 5:56:00 PM

Akber Choudhry said... We specialise in countering the anti-Islam propaganda of the Qadiani Ahmadiyya i n the West, especially in the UK and the US. The Lahori Ahmadiyya share most of the same isolationist ideology, but are not confrontational or anti-Islam and do not believe Mirza GA to be a prophet. While we fully support their human rights and harbour no hatred towards them, we consider them to be the Mormons of Islam. Just like the Mormons believe in Jesu s in some form because Joseph Smith asked them to, similarly Qadiani Ahmadiyya b elieve (in their own way) in Muhammad(saw) and the Quran. This is also very similar to Sikhs when they chose to be legally separated from Hinduism in 1919 and Bahaism that started off from Islam and became an independe nt religion. It is the unanimous opinion of the Muslim Ummah that Qadiani Ahmadiyya are not M uslim and they attempt to counter and dilute the Muslim Identity. However, we wi sh them well and hope they realise that having a new binding teacher and prophe t , they are much better off as a separate religion. Sunday, February 20, 2011 9:48:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Akber Choudhry - Thank you Akber Choudhry for becoming voice of Muslims.

we fully support their human rights and harbour no hatred towards them

However, we wish them well and hope they realise that having a new binding te acher and prophet , they are much better off as a separate religion as per the ir choice Qadiani Ahmadiyya Religion. Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:33:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Akber, I am committed to bringing Muslims together on the basis that Islam is about mit igating conflicts and nurturing goodwill to achieve peace and salaamat for the h umanity. Among that humanity is a group called Muslims and part of the Muslims i s Ahmadiyya group. For those who like to put Muslims in pigeon holes, I am a Sun ni but in reality I am non-denominational Muslim, just the religion prophet taug ht. Where did you get the idea that Ahmadiyya Muslim carry on an anti-Islam propagan da? It is a statement with no basis as I have been around them and I see no trut h in the statement. Joseph Smith did not place Jesus some form of Jesus, I am fairly close with all the communities and Jesus is a central figure to Mormons. I absolutely disagree with your note about Sikhs separating from Hinduism, it is a different religion altogether and is nearly 400 years old. By the way 1919 wa s the Jalianwala Bagh incident. Bahaism is not a part of Islam, it is its own religion and they were persecuted b y the fanatics among Muslims. It is not a unanimous opinion that Ahmadiyya are not Muslims, in Pakistan there is a substantial percentage, and that prejudice and arrogance is creeping into I

There religion is Qadiani Ahmadiyya We Muslims have no problem with their choice of religion as Qadiani ya -

Ahmadiy -

ndonesia and Bangladesh and is hitting India too. We need to grow up and embrace everyone who is recites the Kalama. Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:35:00 PM sarmadahmad said... It is wrong to think or say that Ahmadi-Muslims do not believe in the Finality o f prophet-hood. The Fact is that we (Ahmadi-Muslims) Believe Muhammad (saw) to b e the final Prophet of Allah & Holy Quran to be Last & final Book of Shariya. Ah madi-Muslims believes in each & every word of Quran to be unchangeable & applica ble till the day of Judgment. Unlike many other sects, we do not believe in Abro gation Phenomenon of Quranic Verses & yet are not considered as Muslim - it is r eally sad. The ONLY difference between Ahmadi-Muslims & other sects is regarding the coming of Imam Mahdi & Promised Messiah. Based on Quran, we believe that Jesus/Issa (a s) survived crucifixion & later died like all other human Prophets. Thus we beli eve that the one who was Promised to come after the name of Jesus/Issa (as) was to be from the Ummah itself. Whereas other sects believe that Issa/Jesus (as) wa s PHYSICALLY ascended to Allah where he is still alive & he will Physically desc end from Heaven. Today, these are Ahmadi-Muslims who are tortured & persecuted for reciting & offering 5 times daily prayers. It is too sad that Religious clerics & even Mu slim Governments are erasing from our mosques & are even Justifying this cruel act in live TV shows. For one of such Proof watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XynKJMo9MIE Monday, February 21, 2011 4:15:00 AM Irshad Alam said... could u pls clarify what do these qadianis/ahmadis want:? 1. is it that they just want to be left alone to practice their religion? Then t he Muslim leaders could discuss the framework in which they could do so. For exa mple, they could ...call their house of worship "Qadiani House of worship" inste ad of Masjids, so that simple-minded Muslims r not mislead into believing that t hey r Muslims and become victims of fraudulent proselytism. 2. Or they want to compel the Muslims to accept them as fellow Muslims, so that they can proselyte them? Monday, February 21, 2011 10:20:00 AM Mike Ghouse said... -Irshad; What do they want? I can share what every human wants - to live a life they choo se to and not be harassed. If you followed the case in Malaysia where the fantic binge among Muslims were denying Sikhs and Christians to call God" A...llah" as if they owned Alalh. Ahmadiyas cannot call their house of worship a Masjid? Now do the binge owns Urdu/Arabic Language? The word Temple is used for Hindu, Baha i, Buddhist, Jewish and other religions, thank God they are not figting over it. I am appalled at the idea that Muslims leaders could discusss the framework in w hich they could do so. Sounds liks fascism to me! Where is the free will of Isla m gone for these folks? the christians in INdia use traditionally Hindu names of God to sell their missionizing - the Hindus have not objected to it. Should the y? What do you call the Arab Christians if the called God, Allah and call their pla ce of worship a Masjid, a Christian Masjid?

What will these owners of Allah, Muhammad, Islam and Muslims do if the Jews, Chr istians, Bahai and HIndus adopt Quraan reading as part of their curricullum? Den y them that right? Who are we do that? Allah is the master creator and no one ow ns him. Please explain to on what basis are you denying the Ahmadiyyas to call themselve s Muslims? Why don t they deny the Talibans and Wahhabis the right to be called Muslims? Fear of getting beat up? while the minority Ahmadiyya can be harassaed? The new generation will be more accepting and more tolerant of God given differ ences. Monday, February 21, 2011 10:21:00 AM HajI M hanif said... @Mike Ghouse - We are living in free world you are free to do what you want, it is up to others what they want or believe, Almighty is the Judge of Day of Judgment. 1 - Choice of name & religion is a right cannot be denied. 2 - Interfering / Pressurizing in others business is uncivil. 3 - I want to know one single person who is called Muslim by all 1.57 Billion (M uslims). NONE YES NONE. 4 - Every sect is calling other sect as non Muslim. 5 - Mind your Business is the best policy. 6 - Accepting Mohammed PBUH is the last Profit and then accepting Mirza Gulam Muhammad as new Prophet and second coming of Jesu s has created a confusion / contradiction. 7 - Trying to convert others to Ahamadia / Qadani religion is the bone of conten tion, stoppage of this practice can bring calm. 8 - Ahamadia / Qadani insistence / pressuring to be called as Muslims is their c hoice and refusal by other to call them Muslims is their choice, it is a free world. 9 - Almighty bless our seven billion family with ultimate PEACE inside out - Amen (you are all knowing, we are not) 10- I wish Good luck to our seven billion family Haji M Hanif Executive Presiedent Motamar AlAlam AlIslami (Bait ul Ummah Trust) World Muslim Congress. http://wmctrust.blogspot.com/ 1 773 255 9860 1 847 922 4010 hajih12@gmail.com Monday, February 21, 2011 1:26:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Irshad Alam @Mike Ghouse - Mirza Gulam Ahmed is not a profit of Muslims, he is Profit of Qadanis, Ahemadiya. Mirza Gulam Ahmed is not Second coming of Jesus as per Muslims , he is second coming of JESUS in the shap e of Mirza Gulam Ahmed to Qadanis, Ahemadiya, that is main difference between Mu slims and Mirza Gulam Ahmed followers Qadanis, Ahemadiya. No sooner they disown Mirza Gulam Ahmed as a profit (Jesus) then they can be called Muslims, not Qadanis, Ahemadiya. It is their choice to be called Qadanis, Ahemadiya not Muslims choice. Haji M Hanif Monday, February 21, 2011 1:53:00 PM Irshad Alam said...

so what is coming out is finally 1. Those qadianis/ahmadiyas has the right to practice their own religion except the right to call their house of worship masjid in public, etc. 2. it is the right to call their house of worship Masjid is what ...they r fight ing for, not the right to practice their religion ---------------i call the qadianis kafir based on: 1. No recognized Muslim alim calls the Qadianis or Bahais Muslim. Its consensus of opinion (ijma). 2. No alim ie muslim scholar denies that Wahhabis or Taliban r Muslims, They may be sinner Muslims, they may be deviant Muslims but they r indeed Muslims. By th e way, Im a follower of ahl alsunna wal jamaah scholars and consider the wahhsab is deviant (bidati). but every scholar admits that they re Muslim pls dont beat around the bush: 1. Arab christians already call God Allah (ive heard that the Copts call God Rab b though). 2. arab christians dont their church masjid, but if they did, it would not creat e confusion. because the religions r very different. No one will be deceived. the real issue is false advertising, fraud and deception 2. All educated bengalis know that the 1st person to translate the quran into be ngali was a hindu named girish chandra sen. there has been many christian schola rs of quran. none is bothered. Actually if a qadiani reads the quran--- there wi ll be no problem (just as there has never been any problem with Jews or christia ns reading the quran) Again I repeat the real issue is false advertising, fraud and deception --pls dont beat around the bush Its the fraudulent proselytizing by the qadianis --- thats what the mainstream M uslims oppose. Monday, February 21, 2011 3:24:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Mike Ghouse Irshad and Hanif; I hope you believe in the Day of Judgment, and I also hope you believe that no o ne but God is the master of that day. Regardless of what the Ahmadiyya are fighting for; you, me and fellow Muslims do not have the right to s...tart making judgments in the matters of faith God is the sole authority on that day, unless, you have taken over his role; which no h uman can, particularly Muslims. There is quite a lot of information in the article and the conversation at the b eginning; I hope you get to read it. As a human and certainly as a Muslim, I will stand up for their right to practic e what they believe. A few right wingers have called Islam all kinds of names, b ut the good people in Christianity and other traditions have stood up against fa lse information, although they may not agree with Islam. I hope Muslims drop their bias towards the Ahmadiyyas and live their own life an d stop harassing them. Remember, if you harass a minority, you are justifying an d authorizing your majority to harass you, there is no end to it. Monday, February 21, 2011 3:25:00 PM HajI M hanif said...

@Mike Ghouse - Ahaymydis / Qadanis are harassing me I am not harassing them - Th ey want me to believe in Mirza as Prophet and second coming of Jesus now you hav e resorted to harass me by saying I hope you believe in the Day of Judgment, a nd I also hope you believe that no one but God is the master of that day - It is belief of all the Muslims, without which one cannot be a Muslim. You have used our one to one conversation to make it public by presenting it out of the context. It was my proposal to help you join hands with Motamar AlAlam AlIslami, At that point I didn t knew about your beliefs that you are a follower of Mirza Gulam Ahmed. I consider your attempt as a black mailing tactics on your part. And now you are saying to me, it is not my cup of tea. Yes of course I cannot be bullied by Ahamadis / Qadanis. Stop harassing me now Monday, February 21, 2011 6:11:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Mike Ghouse - I know you have no courage to post my last comments or to Delete all my posts including our one to one conversations / communication which you ha ve used with out my permission. I know you will not opt either of the options th at is usual practice of Ahamadis / Qadanis, followers of Mirza Gulam Ahmed and p ractice of black mailers, of course you will do what you know best. God luck Mik e Ghouse Monday, February 21, 2011 7:43:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Hanif, Please have your kids or grand kids read the whole thread; Just as this note is addressing you, the previous note addressed you. Where did you get the idea that I am an Ahmadi and I am harassing you? That does not make any sense, any one of your kids can read and tell you that. You write and I write, that is the most democratic system taht there is. You del eted comments from the face book that is you choice, but every thing you have wr itten here is posted. I don t delete any. Hanif, if you cannot aruge head on, don t get into the arguement and run away gi ving poor excuses. You are always welcome, you can call me names I still welcome you. that is just me committed to building cohesive societies, nurturing goodwi ll and mitigating conflicts. Jazak Allah Khair Monday, February 21, 2011 10:10:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Haji, In my original story I did not mention you anywhere, its your own comments that you have shared your efforts to bring us together. I appreciate that. We need to carry on a genuine discussion and it takes a lot of courage to face t hings squarely. You are welcome to face it at world Muslim congress every one is

welcome; we have people from every faith as I have mentioned in the write up. Monday, February 21, 2011 10:16:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Mike Ghouse - You have broken the trust by posting my initial comments in your opening column without my permission that was, one to communication and you drag ged me into public, that is sher black mailing. your post suggest that you made efforts, that is not true, I suggest you and then I was told you are Qadani / Ah amedia or agent of Qadani / Ahamedia. I am sick of Qadani / Ahamedia and their a gents who have been trying to change my beliefs. I have deleted you from my facebook as per my practice, for the people bothering me. Your non acceptance of the guilt, of using my privileged communication, you have committed clearly a criminal black mailing activity. You are using the name World Muslim Congress to harass people like me. It is not World Muslim congress it is one man show, bl ack mailers usual practice. I Will appreciate if you could stop using my words / my name to black mail me any further. I have no desire to be in contact with you / Black mailers Good luck @Mike Ghouse Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:41:00 AM Zahid Aziz said... I am posting this comment as a member and author of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movemen t (www.aaiil.org and www.ahmadiyya.org), which holds that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ah mad did not claim to be a prophet, but a Mujaddid. Our leader Maulana Muhammad A li (d. 1951) is recognised by other Muslims as having made invaluable contributi ons to Islamic literature in English. One of our leading figures, Khwaja Kamal-u d-Din, established a Muslim Mission in England in 1913, which served other Weste rn countries as well. This mission was supported by other Muslims and was the ma in Islamic organisation in UK till the mid-1960s (visit: www.wokingmuslim.org). Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was praised by many of his contemporary Muslim leaders in India for his service of defending Islam against attacks by other religions. He was opposed only by the professional clerics of the Muslims. Many times he w orked jointly with other Muslims in the cause of Islam. Today Mutimar Alam Islami shuns you because you don t reject Ahmadis. Now read thi s. The same organisation held a meeting in Karachi, Pakistan in February 1951 (s ixty years ago). After it finished, several of its delegates came to Lahore and called upon Maulana Muhammad Ali. The leader of the Turkish delegation wrote an article in English about his meeting with the Maulana. For details, visit www.ah madiyya.org/books/m-kabir/mjk3-8.htm and scroll to the heading "Meeting delegate s to the World Muslim Conference". The Lahore Ahmadiyya leaders worked jointly with other Muslim leaders and organi sations in pre-partition India (and in other countries) on common Muslim causes, a prominent example being in the movement for the creation of Pakistan. Till 1974, the opposition to Ahmadis was not official but was confined to the fu ndmentalist clerics and their parties. Ahmadis (of our group as well as the "Qad iani" group) held high government posts in Pakistan. In 1974 Ahmadis were declar ed non-Muslim in Pakistan by the socialist, irreligious Mr Z.A. Bhutto s governm

ent (incidentally, he modelled himself on Chairman Mao of China), because he wan ted to take for himself the popularity of the clerics among the masses by accedi ng to their demands. Since then the propaganda has been instilled in Muslims minds that Ahmadis are actually non-Muslims following a different religion from Islam. The masses belie ve what their religious leaders tell them. The educated Muslims, within Pakistan , and in Muslim communities in the West, are afraid to oppose the clerics becaus e they have issued rulings that an "Ahmadi sympathiser" is as bad as an Ahmadi. Today Muslims are like passengers in an aircraft being held hostage, in this cas e by their clerics and mullahs. I apologise for the length of this comment, but there are many other points that can be made. Lastly, I refer you to a civil court case in Cape Town in South Af rica, 25 years ago, when our movement filed a suit against the council of the Ul ama for calling us kafir, and won an injunction that it is defamation. See www.a hmadiyya.org/sa-case/intro.htm for details of this case, its history, the eviden ce presented and the judgment. Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:30:00 AM HajI M hanif said... @Mike Ghouse - Read your lies - You wrote in opening para An effort was made t o connect Motamar AlAlam AlIslami and the World Muslim Congress Not true, I su ggested, not you. you wrote The response from Motamar was your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be an alliance with your organization - Sorry . I understand the politics involved in bringing Muslims together not true, it was my personal communication through m y facebook account not from Motamar AlAlam AlIslami (World Muslim Congress) Your page (world Muslim congress) is only in your computer, it has noting to do with Muslims of the world, it is not world wide organisation, It is a page only. It is your choice of faking Good luck mike Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:17:00 AM HajI M hanif said... @Zahid Aziz - Sine you are from Pakistan, take up your case with supreme court t o reverse court orders and parliament / Government decision, be brave and honest with free Supreme Court, a last hope for the future of Pakistan and Go for Hajj . I personally never had never a problem from Ahamadis / Qadanis in Pakistan. On facebook they have chased me to convert me, that has irritated me and now mik e lied portraying my personal message as Motamr s message to get cheap publicity using the name WORLD MUSLIM CONGRESS. He is faker, it is his bread and butter. I will be surprised if my is message li ke some of others appears here. Good luck mike with your faking business Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:38:00 AM iftikhar sheikh said... I am posting my comments as an Muslim Ahmady,believer in Allah,His Angels,His bo oks and His all Prophets and day of Judgement. My faith is between myself and my

Creator,Allah.I don t have to take any Fatwas from any Mulla or from any Assemb ly to be a Muslim.If all the Assemblies of the world and all the so called Musli ms declare me a Kafir, I don t become a Kafir, until my Allah declares so.If Pak istani Assembly declared Ahmadys as non-Muslims, it was according to the law and constitution of Pakistan .It was not according to the laws of Qur an and Sharia h.If a case is presented in the national assembly of Iran today about the Sunni /Wahabis/Ahle Hadit/Brailwis ,what do you think the assembly will declare about their religion;of course non-Muslims.What about the faith of the Shias according to the so called Alims of Sunnis. All of the Sunnis declare them Kafir.So do al l Shias become Kafirs too.And what about all the Wahabis? Don t all the Brailwis call them Kafir.Pakistani Mullahs are Kafir makng machines.Have they left any b ody out of this. I would request Haji Hanif to find out whether he is still a Mu slim according to other sects or a Pukka Kafir.Now a for the Ahmady Muslims,we b elieve in the Mehdi and messiah of the age as per the injuctions of our prophet Muhammad,PBUH.You have not believed him,so how come we become non-Muslims and yo u stay Muslims????We Ahmady Muslims believe in the holy Qur an totally ,in each word of it, but most of the Sunny Muslims believe that many of the Surahs of the Qur an are abrogated.Now who is the true Muslims just considering this fact onl y!!!!!On finality of the prophet Muhammad PBUH,we believe that he was the last l aw bearing prophet and Shariah brought by him is the last Shariah .Most of the S unnis and other sects believe in the coming of the prophet Issa ASW, after the d emise of prophet Muhammad,PBUH. Now who is believing in prophet Muhammad as the last law bearing prophet??? Of course the answer is Ahmady Muslims.So Mr.Haji, c onsider these points and hope Allah will guide you to right path.You have the ri ght to believe or not to believe, but you cannot stop anybody from preaching rea l Islam to you. Iftikhar Sheikh Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:03:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... PART I OF III HAJI, SALAAM I earnestly request you to read the following in the sequence it is written; I c are about you and your buzurgi. Please dont loose your buzurgi for momentary issu es. 1. This was the original An effort was made to connect Motamar AlAlam AlIslami an d the World Muslim Congress. The response from Motamar was your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be an alliance with your organization - Sorry . I understand the politics involved in b ringing Muslims together. The conversation between you and I remained private, you were not mentioned in t he above. I was cajoling and challenging other Muslim organizations to step up t o the plate and match their talk of bringing Muslims Umma together with their ac tions. By the way, just Google world Muslim Congress there are thousands of entries that will lead you to the World Muslim Congress.org, net, and .com, all the sites man aged by the World Muslim Congress based in Dallas. Indeed, you made the effort to connect the two organizations and I appreciate th at, an effort worth appreciating. 2. Once the article was posted you wrote this comment on the face book. First ever meeting of World Muslim Congress and other meetings are held in Mecca where Qadanis do not want to go, that may be reason of their exclusion. Cannot

do any more. - Almighty is the Judge of the day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PEACE (Islam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck God bless . 3. There was another posting to which you responded. And in note which I have co pied word for word, you tell every one who you were, you wrote your full name, b log, phone numbers etc. Tariq said, well said, this explains true situation. Almighty is the Judge of th e day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PEACE (Is lam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck - God bless - Haji M Hanif http://wmctrust.blogspot.com/ 1 773 255 9860 1 847 922 4010 hajih12@gmail.com 4. I wrote a comment, then you did not wait and jumped to write another comment, Mike Ghouse - Thanks for understanding to pick conman ground World Muslim Congress: Alternative To Caliphate? - There is no kingship in Islam , Kingdoms in Muslim world is problem. -: http://on.fb.me/eRxXnz We cannot force people to go to Mecca. Haji M Hanif Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:40:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... PART II OF III . You come back and write again, I did not, you wrote this Please reefer your remarks I understand the politics involved in bringing Musl ims together in response to my comments your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be... an alliance with your organization - Sorry As explained first and subsequent meetings are healed mostly in Mecca and for the people who denies to go to mecca, how you can force them to come and join Motamar AlAlam AlIslami (World Muslim congress) meetings. It is in no way politics, it is their choice not to be in mecca for attending me etings. .. several comments later You deleted your comments. You did not understand the rules of conversation you write, I write, and Your wr ite and it continues you did not like what I wrote in response to you and you del eted your own comments and ran away, to which I wrote, it is not your cup of tea . If you have to stand up for some thing, you stand firmly and not dilly dally o r run away deleting. You did not like my comments and started saying you are harassing me you are an Ahmadiyya Read back your own statements, it is all here Hanif Bhai, if you dont understand anything, please ask for clarification instead of accusing and blaming others. The proof of all the conversation is right here . Please read it again.

You, me and every one is here to find solutions I have published all your rantin gs and accusations because I have the God Given Guts, and yet you write in the l ast three comments that I will not publish. What you wrote was unproductive, yet I have accommodated you because you were hurt and out of respect for you. Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:40:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... PART III OF III THIS IS IMPORTANT Hanif Bhai, please let me know who harassed you to convert to Ahmadiyya, I will take your case personally and stop them, if this is not true, you owe an apology for spreading things that are not true. ============================================================= By the way YOU will not find many GUTSY Muslims, thank God I am one of the few, I am blessed that Allah has removed all the fears from my heart. . Many a Muslim Organization do not have the guts to speak the truth, they are afraid of what t he few fanatics will do to them, they are afraid of the Fatwas and they are afra id of stoppage to the funding. Thank Allah, No one can push me to say a thing, or appease any one, neither any one writes my paycheck, nor one does favors to me Allah is the only one I fear. I have nothing to gain from any one, nothing to gain but hear crap. I expect that , that is model all my mentors have given; from Prophet Muhammad down to some of my friends have endured abuses and have gone it alone. Insha Allah, I will too. I hope to end our conversation at this point. Please continue to write, if it is productive, I will publish, if not please do not. Thank you. Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:41:00 PM HajI M hanif said... iftikhar sheikh I seek his guidance only, as Muslim, I do not believe in any sect as all sects a re saying each other Kafir, I do not want to be part of this game. I have no aut hority to declare anyone Kafir. I am not the head of Pakistan or Motamar and I have no power to change the minds of peoples of the world. I Consider it offensive for any one to preach me, I haven t even peached to my J ew wife to convert I left it to her to Embrace PEACE (ISLAM) by demonstrating wa king Islam not talking Islam, she is my biggest fan in the world, telling all th e world how great Muslims are. Now you started preaching me, leave me alone, I am non denominational Muslim and I denounce all sects spreading hate making every one on earth kafir. Denounce all sects Embrace PEACE and Shun wars, our seven billion family need PEACE (Islam)non denominational For your concerns approach concerned authority, to readdress / corrections. Some one sent me this link, http://www.holesinholy.c om/ talk to them direct - Your fight is in between you and them, I am not the party, Mike used my communique which I got from Motamr Authorities, those are not my wo rds at all,

Mike broke was meant e tried to ndkid will e will not

the trust to post the outcome of my effort with Motamr, my communique for him only not for the public consumption. Instead of thanking me h reducible me, that is a childes act, that kind of act my youngest gra not do. Civility demands his public apology right hear to me, which h as a faker and a black mailer.

Iftikhar Sheikh / Mike Good luck I wish you well PEACE - Do not preach me Quran Prophet Muhammad is my Guide Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:02:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Salaam Haji, My friend, my buzurg, together we can find solutions. First, let s face the tough things and then solutions. I am merely responding to you. You don t write any more and I wont respond any more. Fair? You claimed those were not your words and deleted all your messages on the faceb ook, and also deleted that particular messages to me that there cannot be allian ce with your organization. I just looked for that message, it is deleted. That i s not nice of you. But yet, you kept writing note upon note and when you did not like my response o n your later notes you went into denial mode. One more item before we go the solutions. In the preceding comment you wrote you are not head of the Motamar, that was fin e, but several comments before you wrote you were the Executive President of Mot amar. You were volunteering that information un-asked. SOLUTION What happened has happened, let s find solutions. I like your take and stand tha t you are a Muslim with no denomination and I share that with you. I will stand by you and every one who is harassed. I am willing to reach out to the entire Ahmadiyya community in America and Canada to stop harassing any one i ncluding you. If you were not harassed, thank God, we will move on with our live s. By the way for your information, I take pride in standing up for every one who i s pushed around or harassed. That is what a Muslim to me is, to stand up against oppression and to speak out for the oppressed no matter who they are as humanly as I can and it will be never 100%. Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:09:00 PM Anonymous said... Jazakallah Mike, It is so great to read this article and comments. I am an Ahmad i Muslim, I believe in One GOD, God of Muhammad (SAW), God of Musa, God of Abrah am, God of Jesus, God of Krishna, God of the whole universe and whole humanity, I believe in all the prophets of Allah, I believe that all of them came with div ine guidance to uplift humanity, I believe in the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as the Last Prophet, on whom the last Book of Holy Quran was revealed, which i recite every day, infact I am teaching my kids living in US, to learn and understand an d act on the Quran, Alhamdolillah my 2 kids have finished the Holy Book x2 and 3 rd one who is 5 year old trying to finish the Quran, I believe that there can be no new law can come after Quran. I also read and act on the ahadith of the Holy Prophet and act on his sunnah, I also acted on his Hadith in which he said when

messiah should come, you should give my salam to him even if you have to go ove r the ice slabs, So my grandfather did. All i did is in accordance with the sayi ngs of the Holy Prophet. I say DAROOD on the Holy prophet every day. I being an Ahmadi Muslim am law abiding citizen of a country as I was told to be in the Hol y Quran, I feel the pain of humanity just like they are a part of me. I say the kalima, I say the 5 daily prayers, i Observe fasting, I will be going to Hajj in shallah after my parents grant me permission, I pay zakat and charity for the po or. By doiing all this I thought I am a Muslim. But Alas, I am a muslim in a non muslim country, but when i travel to a muslim country i am forced to be a nonmus lim, rather I am told by law that you are a Qadiani, or mirzai or what not, now If I go to Indonesia I will be called by something else which they have not prop osed any name to it. Does it sound familiar to you. When Holy Prophet ( SAW) bro ught Islam as a new religion, the meccans told the muslims, do not call yourself muslim but call your self as "sabi". Then the muslims 1400 years ago were burne d, their houses were burned, they were brutally killed, women were sheared in ha lf by tying them to two camels and then making them run in opposite directions, pregnant women were killed, Bilal was put on hot sand in summers of Arabia, They were mobbed, they were put in social boycott for 3 years in Sha ab-e-abitalib. All these are happening to us these days in Pakistan/indonesia/bangladesh. I tho ught Islam came to uplift humanity and bring the human race to a new level of de cency, but what happened to us, where are we going. If I go back to these countr ies I will be killed/ looted/ threatened and so on. A governor is killed and his killar is being called a Ghazi.Alas, there may be some people like MIKE to tell them it is all wrong, let us live and let live others. Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:24:00 PM Kazi Azizul Huq said... Personally I have not studied about the Faith and Theology presented by Late Mir za Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani the founder of Ahmadia Jamat. I am a Sunni Hafafi Musli m and I do not believe that Late Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani was the promised Ma ...hdi Alaihissalm (i.e. the Messiah before the End Time). I have heard from our clergies who have studied the theology and practice of the Ahmadia Jamat that t he Quadianis (i.e. the Ahmadia Jamat) believe that all those who do not accept L ate Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani as the "Mahdi" are "Kafir" (i.e. not-Muslim). Ki ndly impartially study their real faith and inform me your findings. Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:36:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Kazi, I will have to find this out, those who are doing it are as swrong as thos e who are caliling them non-Muslims. I hope, when we call some one an alim, they are scrutinized thouroughly - theiir writings and their speeches. Any none-sens e like that must be a reason to strip the title. Wednesday, February 23, Susanto Das said... Brother Mike : Allah is ion , you are not alone ran states there are as 2011 11:36:00 PM with you ,you have shown true humanity logic and compass keep up the good work , your words are truth , as the Qu many rds to the Devine as there are breaths ;-)!!!

To me ...a Muslim is one who has submitted his will to God , the rest is all jus t brands and labels , so in essence any follower of any religion sects etc that has surrendered to the god consciousness of his heart is a Muslim , the rest is just religious bigotry and fascism ;-)!!! God / Allah / krsna or whatever name f or the Devine has unlimited eternal names bless u and protect u always !!! People are forgetting that the veryessence of religion is insaniyaat / humanity , which is the biggest crime against God all mighty !!! Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:37:00 PM Susanto Das said...

The whole world is a mosque according to the quran so why shouldn t a qadiani be allowed to call his place of worship a mosque ???? What s the difference betwee n the words masjid , temple , church , synagog ??? To me nothing but the same in ... different languages of the world !!! How far have we blinded ourselves with so called knowledge that only makes us behave like a frog in a well ;-)!!! The prophet was an illiterate , it then surprises me how his religion has become one of so called knowledge and discrimination , when in fact it started of in t he cave of hira as a religion of meditation contemplation surrender and devotion ;-)!!!! May God have mercy on us all from ourselves and the knowledge we assume to have !!! Amen /Amin /Aum :-)!!!!See More Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:37:00 PM iftikhar sheikh said... Dear Kazi Azizul Haq sahib and Mike Ghouse sahib. You have heard from your clerg y that Hazrat Mirza sahib declared those who don t believe in him as Kafir,is ab solutely absurd. The problem with Muslim Clergy is that in order to prove Ahmady Muslims as Kafir,they have to invent lies like that so that innocent Muslims do n t go near Ahmadis and find out that real Islam is what Ahmadis are preaching. The fact is that for many a years after Hazrat Mirza sahib declared himself to b e a Mehdi and Messiah and that Hazrat Issa ASW has died like other prophets, Mus lim clergy of his time brought Fatwas upon Fatwas against him and Jama at-e Ahma diyya as Kafirs. To which HAzrat Mirza sahib declared that I don t consider any Muslim to be a Kafir who doesn t believe in me, but according to the Hadith of o ur Master Prophet Muhammad SAW,anybody who calls a Muslim a Kafir becomes a Kafi r himself. I would humbly request you to read any book of Hazrat Mirza sahib and see for yo urselves what he had been preaching.Now a days its very easy because all his boo ks are available on internet.You can go to www.alislam.org and read his books as well as the books of all Khulafa-e-Ahmadiyyat and other scholars. Iftikhar Sheikh. Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:56:00 PM Iftikhar Sheikh said... Dear Haji Hanif sahib: You don t believe in any sect;fair enough.What would you say to the hadith of Hazrat Muhammad saw,regarding the Ummat splitting in 73 sec ts.All the sect would be Naari but one Jama at.Assembly of Pakistan put a stamp on the truthfulness of the hadith of prophet Muhammad Saw,when they declared una nimously that all the 72 sects are together except for Ahmadiyya sect.What other proof do you need,Haji sahib.. I hope you believe in Prophet Muhammad and his a hadith. Iftikhar Sheikh Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:05:00 PM Anonymous said... Brother Haji Hanif has said somewhere that he is a Muslim and prophet Muhammad S aw ,was a Muslim.Just believe in prophet Muhammad.True, but how you believe in p rophet Muhammad is by believing what he asked us(prophesied) to believe in latte r days. To believe in Messiah and Mehdi of the age. Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:31:00 PM Iftikhar Sheikh said... Respectfull I disagree with Susanto Das that prophet Muhammad was an illiterate. The right word is unlettered.Illiterate means a person who has no knowledge or w ho is ignorant. Whereas prophet Muhammad taught thousands the true meaning of lo ve of God ,Qur an and Hikmat and cleansed them of their ills.I know Mr.Das didn t use this word in a derogatory way. I just wanted to clarify it. Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:38:00 PM Mike Ghouse said...

Iftekhar, This is to unlump Mike Ghouse from the sahib and Mike Ghouse sahib. You have sahib declared those who don t believe clude me from this commnet, it was not Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:52:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Iftikhar Sheikh@Anonymou I believe in each and every word of our leader, Being only a Muslim is not a negation of his words / Ahadith. Muslims / Christens / Jews all waiting for second tomming of Jesus, he is compin g all will see. There are people who believes Jesus walked to Kashmir and died there. There are people Quoting following from the books supposed to be written by Mirz a Gulam Ahmad are questionable? (Kashti-e-Nooh. P.47. Roohani Khazain V.19. P.50) THE PREGNANCY OF PROMISED CHRIST OF THE QADIYANIS About his pregnancy Mirza writes down in his book that, Like Maryam, Christs spirit was infused into me and metaphorically I was conceived . At last after several months, not more than ten months, through revelation tha t I have stated in the part four page. 556 of Braheen-e-Ahmedia, I was made Chri st from Mary. In this way I am Ibn e Maryam (son of Mary). (Kashti-e-Nooh. P.47. Roohani Khazain V.19. P.50) . CLAIM OF INTERCOURSE WITH GOD No one has ever alleged God with so much a shameful allegation. The suppression of virility would have been made by Satan in the guise of spiritual being. The Promised Christ once stated his condition that under the feeling of revelati on he felt as if he were a woman and God had intercourse with him. (Islami Qurbani Tract No.34, by Qazi Yar Muhammad Qadiyani) THE CLAIM OF BEING GOD Mirza Qadiyani writes in his book (May God Forbid) I dreamt that I my self am God. I believed that I was God. (Aina-e-Kamalat Islam. P.564, Roohani Khazain V.5 . P.564) In a revelation I saw that I was God and I believed that I was so. (Kitab-el-Biria P.85, Roohani Khazain V.3.P.103) CLAIM OF BEING MARY And God named me Mary in the book Braheen-e-Ahmedia. (Tazkara. P. 40) . CLAIM OF BEING HAJR E ASWAD (A STONE) A man kissed my foot I said I am the Black Stone (Hajra-e-Aswad). (Tazkara P. 36) . WORLD CHAMPION OF ABUSIVE LANGUAGE More than 450 abuses are written in the books of Mirza Qadiyani. No other leader of any other religion, true or false can compete Mirza Qadiyani in using abusiv e language. Even politicians find it difficult to match his abilities and admit his command on the subject. statement you made, "Dear Kazi Azizul Haq heard from your clergy that Hazrat Mirza in him as Kafir,is absolutely absurd." Ex my comment.

CLAIM OF BEING KRISHNA I am the very Krishna. (Tazkara P.381)" Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:57:00 PM HajI M hanif said... Can Muslims change Qalama? No Read Qalama written On Ahamadia Center Africa, it says Ahmed instead of Muhammed . http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=397142&id=100000521382785&comments&alert " Read more http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/Ruhani-Khazain-Vol-11.pdf PAGE 325-326 http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/Ruhani-Khazain-Vol-19.pdf PAGE 102 Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:26:00 PM Fatima Thompson said... And in response to your article... You have created a position for yourself and have set out to do a certain sort of work which embodies inclusion of all who wo uld identify themselves as Muslim. Those people and organizations know that this is the case when they read your writings. Just ignore their rants and postulati ons that you must change the wording of your statements. To do so would be to co mpromise the position you have taken. You don t need the people who are unwilling to change or even consider your posi tion. You need the people who are open-minded and who need the type of work you are do ing. Allah s Grace in all you do. Fatima Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:17:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Iftikhar Sheikh@Anonymou Qadiani belligerents attacked the students of Nishter Medical College, Multan, w hen they came back from an excursion trip and passed through Rabwah on 29th May 1974. Events that led to the Constitutional Amendments declaring Qadianis to be non-Muslim Minorities started from The Rabwah Incident In a bid to show their muscles to their opponents, Qadiani belligerents attacked the students of Nishter Medical College, Multan, when they came back from an ex cursion trip and passed through Rabwah on 29th May 1974. Qadianis carried sticks and light arms. Fifty students were badly injured with 13 in critical condition s. (Daily Jasarat, Karachi, 31st May 1974). It was a pre-planned affair and Mirz a Nasir and Mirza Tahir were behind the game. Qadiani Goondaism unleashed violent reaction all over Pakistan. Although Hanif R amay, the Chief Minister of Punjab, issued stern warnings to law breakers yet th e demonstrators paid no heed to it. Mr. Justice K A Samdani, a High Court Judge was appointed to hold an inquiry into the Rabwah incident. In the Punjab Assembl y the leaders of the opposition moved adjournment motion but the speaker disallo

wed it on the ground that the matter was subjudice. (Pakistan Times, Rawalpindi, 3 May 1974) Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:19:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Fatima Thompson Poor Mike Ghouse alone cannot do any thing alone. The disease can only be revers ed the way it came in like a cancer. Explain Ahamadia position to the Supreme co urt of Pakistan, If all said is true that Ahamadia believes in Prophet Muhammad PBUH as the last Prophet and Mirza is mujadid not a prophet. The hostility probl em started from the beating of peaceful Students. A Qualified truthful apology c an reverse hostilities. Using Ahamadia religion to get Asylums in Europe and America is the benefit whic h Ahamadia and non Ahamadia is using for economic reasons, That has to stop. Onl y truth can heel wounds, nothing else. Good luck Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:39:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Fatima Thompson Be civil and use you civil rights, do not send Mike in harms way, help him with civility approach Pakistani supreme court or American, European Courts, Challeng ing Pakistan s court decisions by giving proof that Ahamadis believe in Prophet Muhammad as the last of the Prophet and Mirza Ahmed is Mujadid not a prophet. Pl us a Quantified apology towords the students who were beaten in Rabwa, which sta rted all subsequent events. Pakistani Constitutional Amendments of 1974 Declaring Qadianis as a non-Muslim Minority by Dr. Syed Rashid Ali Events that led to the Constitutional Amendments declaring Qadianis to be non-Muslim Minorities Bhutto becomes the Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto became the elected Prime Minister of Pakistan in the electio n of 1970 and Qadianis hoped to get a good reward for their unflinching support to the Pakistan Peoples Party in this election and for their loyalty to Bhutto. Following elections many PPP MNAs and MPAs visited Rabwah and got good reception at the Qasr-e-Khilafat. Khuddamul Ahmadiyya organised parties and contributed f unds for the PPP public meetings. Qadiani students joined PPP led student federa tions to check the activities of Jamiat-e-Tulaba, the student wing of Jamaat-e-I slami. A powerful group among the bureaucracy and the military extended support to Rabwah to win its favours for future promotions (many high ranking army offic ers and civil servants belonged to the Jamaat). The leading anti-Qadiani groups and organisations operating in the country were suppressed and their activities curbed to appease Qadianis. Mirza Nasir (3rd Khalifa) was happy over his politic al bargain. He declared that majority of Muslims had accepted Qadiani point of v iew over the vital religious issues. In Saeed House Abbottabad, he declared that majority of people had accepted our interpretation on the belief of the death o f Jesus Christ and Khatme Nabuwwat (AlFazl Rabwah, 30th June 1972) After an year he claimed that 70-80% people especially the young generation of Pakistan had c ome to believe that Ahmadis were not non-believers in Khatme Nabuwwat. Like the

issue of Jesus death, the issue of Khatam-i-Nabuwwat would finish in the next f ive or seven years, he predicted. (AlFazl Rabwah, 28th July 1973) Oil crisis hit badly the Western world in late 1973 and it was deemed necessary to check any move meant to forge a common front against western powers. In Febru ary 1974, Bhutto announced the convening of Islamic Summit in Pakistan. It baffl ed Rabwah. The leading role of Saudi Arabia in the summit was a red rag to the Q adiani bull. Mirza Tahir says that Saudi King Faisal aspired to be the Khalifa o f the Muslim world. Thus the fate of Faisal was sealed. He was murdered by his A mericanised nephew. However an Anti Ahmadiyya movement was launched on the eve o f Islamic Summit and lot of literature was distributed among the Muslim delegate s. These events created an atmosphere of mistrust between PPP and Rabwah. However t hey still enjoyed the support of several key figures of the ruling party. Mirza nasir continued to recieve PPP stalwarts in his palace in Rabwah and firmly beli eved that no harm can ever come to his community. From time to time, he ordered heads of different Ahmadiyya organisations to put up stiff resistance against th e attacks of his opponents and preach Ahmadiyya creed in a fearless way. "How co uld you celebrate the centenary of Ahmadiyyat in a befitting manner if you did n ot prove your worth," he once advised his followers in a private meeting. All th is contributed to the aggressive mood of the community. (Ahmadiyya Movement - Br itish-Jewish Connection by Bashir Ahmad p.405) Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:57:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Fatima Thompson We are 1.57 Billion Muslims / Faithful s / slaves of Allah ready to obey his ord ers as Muslim s, nothing else for our PEACE inside out. God bless PEACE (Islam) - Amen BISMILLAH There is only one Islam, we cannot be divided into sects by way of religion,gend er or ethnicticity,Islam is one way and one way only.......Later, innovaters in the Din lead to differences between sects,madhabs etc......No where in the Quran however does it mention to break off into a branch such as a sunni,shia,sufi et c.....the Quran is the book of guidance for all mankind,we aint allowed to break into sects like the christians..........these are all shameful artificial divis ions which have not one thing to do with what ALLAH has revealed, we are one bro therhood.... The prophet (SAWS), in his final speech to the whole Ummah, said that between Mu slims, there are no races or tribes. We have split the Ummah which our Rasul (SA WS) tried so hard to keep one. Allah warns us, in verse 105:3 not to allow ourse lves to dissociate..... :"And be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputa tions after receiving clear signs: for them is a dreadful punishment in store". 3:103 And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for yo u), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s fav our on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by Hi s Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided. 3:164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a n apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sancti

fying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, th ey had been in manifest error. 6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tel l them the truth of all that they did. Just follow the Quran and Saheeh Hadiths.....its haram to divide yourself betwee n your brothers and sisters,Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had told us that the Ummah w ould be divided,..... Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said "S urely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they wi ll resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, al l of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked, Who are they O Messenger of Allah, Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions." Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was just a muslim,thats what we should be just muslims.. ..One who is a slave to ALLAH and a follower of Rasul (PBUH) is just a muslim, A LHAMDULILLAH......Just because we are suppose to follow the way of the Sunnah do sent mean we should be labeled Sunnis, because remember my brothers and sisters this is ALLAH s religion not Prophet Muhammad s (SAW) though he was a great Prop het Masha Allah , he was still just a slave to ALLAH........ALLAH had sent down the Quran to make us unite as one and to worship HIM and HIM alone submitting ou r will to HIM as one brotherhood.............. Friday, February 25, 2011 1:32:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Hanif, In the light of your note preceeding this, I ask you to consider making the foll owing statement. " We are all Muslims, not Wahhabi, not Shia, not Sunni, not Ismaili, not Bohra a nd not Ahmadiyya but just Muslims. As long as one believes in God and Prophet Mu hammad, he or she is a Muslim, period. Furthermore, Allah is the master of the day of Judgment and he alone will make t hat call who is and who isn t a Muslim; and no individual is responsible for the acts of other, nor any oneelse would be held responsible for one s action on th e day of Judgment." We need a few brave souls to start the movement and Haji, affirm the statement a nd make a committment to build a cohesive Muslim Community. Mike Ghouse World Muslim Congress Friday, February 25, 2011 2:01:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Mike If you wish you can make any statement what ever you want. Your statement would be your statement and not on behalf of all the Muslims of the world. I have no authority to reverse Pakistan court and Ummah s decision it has to be taken up with relevant authorities for redressal, which aggrieved party can only

do. Motamar Main body accepts all court decisions. Motamar has representation from all over the world, delegates meets in world Gen eral assemblies every five year to elect new president / office bearers and for adopting new resolutions. It is slow process. It is not one man show. Motamar ac ts like UN and in fact it is UN of all the Muslims of the world. Friday, February 25, 2011 7:34:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Hanif, Changes are intiated by individuals, the first such example for Muslims was Prop het Muhammad (pbuh) he went against the establishment to do the right thing. Most Muslims organizations are incapable of initiating changes, they rather foll ow the dictums of the funders than speak up the right thing. Can you, me and each one of us reading this can make a personal statement, do we believe in in this? and If we do, can we state our personal opinion. It does no t matter whether an organization agrees or not, but it does matter, to you, me o r the ones that read. " We are all Muslims, not Wahhabi, not Shia, not Sunni, not Ismaili, not Bohra a nd not Ahmadiyya but just Muslims. As long as one believes in God and Prophet Mu hammad, he or she is a Muslim, period. Furthermore, Allah is the master of the day of Judgment and he alone will make t hat call who is and who isn t a Muslim; and no individual is responsible for the acts of other, nor any one else would be held responsible for one s action on t he day of Judgment." We need a few brave souls to start the movement and Haji, affirm the statement a nd make a committment to build a cohesive Muslim Community. Jazak Allah Khair Mike Ghouse Friday, February 25, 2011 8:11:00 PM HajI M hanif said... @Mike Ghouse I made it simple and official One who declares him or her as a Muslim believing in Quran as last Divine Guidel ine to be followed and Prophet Muhammad PBUH as last messenger / our leader is a Muslim. May Allah unite & bless 1.57 Billion Muslims with PEACE (Islam)- Amen http://wmctrust.blogspot.com/ Friday, February 25, 2011 9:58:00 PM HajI M hanif said...

Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:08:00 AM HajI M hanif said... .. ..

.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..

.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..

Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:14:00 AM Mike Ghouse said... MESSAGES THAT HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL MESSAGE AND ADDS TO THE TOPIC ARE WELCOME. Sunday, February 27, 2011 3:40:00 PM Iftikhar Sheikh said... Haji Hanif: Your dirt came out and I knew it would.You have balatantly used fals e orpaganda against the only tue Muslim sect,Ahmadiyya in a fashion of Mullahs a bout whom Prophet of Allah,Muhammad Rasulullah saw had said that they will bethe worst creature under the sky.I don t know if you belong to the same catagory ,I hope not.But you have sounded like them ,so I was a little apprehensive.As for the Kalima,you have tried and failed miserably that Kalima recited by Ahmadiyya Jammat is not Muhammad ur Rasulullah ,but (Allah forbid) Ahmad rasulullah. If th at would have been the case, why on earth the Mullahs in Pakistan don t let us u se the Kalima with Muhammad ur rasulallah.They say that sincethis is a Muslim Ka lima so we wouldn t allow Ahmadis to use it.If you had a little sense you wouldn t say wha tyou tried to prove .Our Kalima is La Ila ha Illullaho Muhammad Ur Ra sulullah and no power on earth can take it away from us.We would rather die at t he hands of the Mullahs and their cronies,than leave this Kalima.You have quoted some Qazi Yar Muhammad Qadiani as saying some filthy language.Ahmadiyya Jamaat has nothing to do with such person or such writings.If you had read a single pag e of any book of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam ahmad sahib Qadiani, the Mehdi and Messiah of the age, a true lover and subordinate prophet to the master prophet,Muhammad saw,you would have not said things like that.You have also quoted that Ahmadi st udents clashed with some studets from Faislabad medical college.Yes there was a little fighting between the sudents instigated by the Mullahs and their cronies with the suppoert of agencies to unleash terror and murder and burning and looti ngs against innocent Ahmadis of other cities.Inthat clash how many ahmadis were martyred,houses burnt and businesses looted of Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis. I expect ed a little fairness rom you ,but I guess I was thinking wrong.You have also quo ted prophet Muhammad saying that Muslims of his Ummah will become like Jews,ditt o!!!. Haven t Muslims in general become like Jews. What Jews used to do was not believe in the Prophets and torture him and his followers.Haven t the Muslims pr oved by turning against the Mehdi and Messiah of the age and use the same tactic s as used by the opponents of the prophets. You believe that only one sect is th e true believer and rest of the 72 sect are Hell bound.So who is that sect.It is very easy to see in thelight of the Hadith of our prophet,Hazrat Muammad Saw.Wh o are the ones who are not allowed to preach? Who are the who are denied Haj? Wh o are the one not allowed to say Kalima? Who are the one who are not allowed to say their Masjid a Masjid. Only Ahmady Muslims,my dear only Ahmady Muslims, the true and sincere believers of Prophet Mughammad,saw.No body else on this face of earth. So if you don t believe in Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a Mehdi and Mess iah,why don t you believe in the words of prophet Muhammad????If you do, then yo u will be Ahmady and nothing else.If you call yourselves a Muslim then you are s upposed to follow prophet MuhammadSaw, otherwise either you are lying that you a re follower or don t understand Islam. Iftikhar Sheikh Wednesday, March 02, 2011 4:13:00 PM

Iftikhar Sheikh said... Haji Hanif: If you believe in the coming of prophet Issa asw, after the death of Hazrat Muhammad saw, then according to your belief, Hazrat Issa will be the las t prophet,not prophet Muhammad saw. Because last is the one who dies last. May Allah give you the insight of real Islam,Ahmadiyyat. Iftikhar Sheikh Wednesday, March 02, 2011 4:18:00 PM Mike Ghouse said... Iftekhar, Glad you clarified the Kalima, there are a lot of myths created about Ahmadiyya Muslims, and I urge fellow Muslims to verfiy before holding a negative opionion. There will always be disagreement about the Mahdi AS, and we have to let that ha ng out, as it is a belief. You cannot change one s belief. Neither the Ahmadiyya belief about Hazrat Mirza nor the other other muslims belief about Mahdi will c hange and there is no need to even attempt to prove or disprove. To each is thei r belief. As far as the other basics, all Muslims from Ahmadiyya to Wahhabit hold dear sim ilar basics. We need to focus on all the things we have in common and not hone o n Mahdi. There is no room for bias in Islam, even this statement, "You have also quoted p rophet Muhammad saying that Muslims of his Ummah will become like Jews,ditto!!!. Haven t Muslims in general become like Jews." - There is nothing wrong being a Jew, what is wrong is if one does not follow the guidelines, it is those people the prophet had addressed not all the Jews. NOTE TO HAJI Your last few posts were verses from Quraan, they are good, but not relevant in the disucssion. I have 4 more of yours on hold, it won t serve any purpose. Please post what is relevant. Thanks Wednesday, March 02, 2011 4:40:00 PM iftikhar sheikh said... Dear Mike: I agree with you 100%.We have to agree on common things and that is e xactly what Qur an tells us .Allah tells Muhammad saw to tell Christians and Jew s to let us get together on common things.This is the basics of the peace in the world,otherwise there are lot of differences between all nations,all religions, all cultures and even same religions.Of course there will be a difference regard ing Mehdi and Messiah.Ahmadys have no problem with that.There is no compulsion i n the religion.We can adopt whatever we like.No person has any right to judge so mebody whether he /she is a Muslim/Momin or Kafir.This is Allah s domain,which M ullahs have tried to take over.We Ahmadys tell them to remain human being.Don t become Allah. There is nothing wrong being Jews/Christians or whatever religion.we have to res pect all and should help all God s children.I was only referring to a Hadith of our prophet Muhammad SAW.I agree 100% that there is no room for bias in Islam.Th ats the reason Allah sends His prophets to remove bias between people. Iftikhar Sheikh. Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:31:00 PM iftikhar sheikh said...

Haji hanif said"meeting of World Muslim Congress and other meetings are held in Mecca where Qadanis do not want to go, t hat may be reason of their exclusion. Cannot do any more. ". What a big lie.Ahmady Muslims love to go to Mecca and Medina,the cities of our p rophet Muhammad saw.Its the Saudi Government who puts Ahmadis in prison,if they go for Haj or Umra.If Haji has a little bit of shame ,then he will apologize for such blatant lie. Iftikhar Sheikh Friday, March 04, 2011 12:25:00 PM HajI M Hanif said... @Devil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mz30QgDROc Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:21:00 AM Iftikhar Sheikh said... Haji Hanif: Its not devil,its the truth.Don t be Summun Bukmun! Allah may open y our heart and eyes.The Messiah and Mahdi has come.How long you are going to wait for Hazrat Eisa to descend from Heavens. No body has ever descended from Skies. Jesus PBUH has died like prophet Muhammad and Ibrahim and Hazrat Musa ASW.Qur an is the witness for that,Suhaba of Hazrat Muhammad SAW are the witness to that.B ut whether you believe it or not,we are all human beings and we need to traet ea ch other with respect without any prejudices. Iftikhar Sheikh Thursday, April 07, 2011 11:47:00 AM HajI M Hanif said... @Iftikhar Sheikh Every Child is Born Muslim. My views are Exactly as of Ghamidi on Ahmadiyya / Ahmadiyyat. The Word Devil is not used for Ghamidi - Devil divides. My views are to unite wi thout interfering into personal beliefs. I hope Mike will post my views to defuse misunderstandings to defeat Devil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mz30QgDROc Sunday, June 12, 2011 3:35:00 PM