CAnthony-rough.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 2 vs. CASEY ANTHONY, ZENAIDA GONZALEZ,

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA

Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant, CASE NO.: 08-CA-24573

Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff. -----------------------------------------------------ROUGH DRAFT ** ROUGH DRAFT ** ROUGH DRAFT The videotaped deposition of CINDY ANTHONY taken pursuant to Notice on behalf of the Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant on Thursday, April 9, 2009, beginning at 1:25 p.m., at the law firm of Morgan & Morgan, 20 North Orange Avenue, 16th Floor, Orlando, Florida, before Laura J. Landerman, R.M.R., C.R.R., F.P.R., and Notary Public, State of Florida at Large.

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A P P E A R A N C E S: KEITH R. MITNIK, ESQUIRE JOHN B. MORGAN, ESQUIRE JOHN W. DILL, ESQUIRE Morgan & Morgan, P.A. Page 1

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CAnthony-rough.txt 20 North Orange Avenue -- 16th Floor Orlando, Florida 32801 For the Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant,

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 3 ALSO PRESENT: Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez George Anthony No appearance on behalf of the Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff, BRADLEY A. CONWAY, ESQUIRE 390 North Orange Avenue -- Suite 1630 Orlando, Florida 32801 For the Deponent, George Anthony. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Lee Fouraker of Ron Fleming Video Productions

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I N D E X TESTIMONY OF CINDY ANTHONY Direct Examination by Mr. Dill Examination by Mr. Morgan Examination by Mr. Mitnik CERTIFICATE OF OATH CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER WORD INDEX E X H I B I T S Page 2

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CAnthony-rough.txt (None marked.)

- - - - S T I P U L A T I O N S It is hereby stipulated and agreed between counsel for the respective parties and the witness that the reading and signing of the deposition be reserved.

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THE VIDEOGRAPHER: is April 9, 2009.

Good afternoon.

The date

This is the deposition of Cindy

Anthony, being taken in the matter of Zenaida Gonzalez versus Casey Anthony. p.m. We're on record. Counsel, please introduce yourselves. MR. DILL: John Dill, along with John Morgan The time is 1:26

and Keith Mitnik representing the plaintiff. MR. CONWAY: Anthony. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: in the witness. CINDY ANTHONY Page 3 Court reporter please wear I'm Brad Conway for Cindy

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CAnthony-rough.txt having been first duly sworn testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DILL: Q A Q Please state your name, ma'am. Cynthia Marie Anthony. You have a daughter named Casey Marie Anthony;

is that correct? A Q A Q Yes. And had a granddaughter Caylee as well? Correct. I'm going to ask you some questions about the

25 time period before and leading up to your granddaughter's Rough Draft - 5

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disappearance and then we're going to go through some other questions. Okay?

So right now I'm going to ask some questions particularly about the household and the setup of the household, who lived there during the time period, let's say, about March or April of last year. A Okay?

Explain to me the relevance of the question

regarding the civil lawsuit with Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez, please. Q Ma'am, the attorney may have told you we're He's the one who

going to ask questions in this case. objects.

I need you to answer the questions because We've subpoenaed you. So if

we've noticed this case.

you can do your best to answer me, but I will say if I don't understand -A I'm not understanding what you're asking for, Okay? I am -Page 4

the relevance. Q

Ma'am.

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CAnthony-rough.txt I'm just asking a question. MR. CONWAY: Let him do the questioning.

We'll try to make this quick if you can answer If you don't understand what I ask

what I do ask you.

you, not why I ask you something, but if you don't understand what I've asked you, let me know I'll be sure

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A Q

Okay.

Please repeat the question. Let

I'll get to that and ask you in a second. I might talk If you don't

me tell you a couple other things.

confusing a little bit, maybe too fast.

understand me, let me know and I'll reask it.

If you do

answer one of my questions, I'm going to assume you that did understand it; is that fair? A Q That's fair. Let's go on back to about March of last year.

What house did you live at? A Q A Q the house? A Q A Q We have four bedrooms. And did Caylee Marie have her own bedroom? Yes, she did. During that time period, was it your 4937 Hopespring Drive. And who lived there with you? Casey, George and myself, and Caylee Marie. Tell me a little bit. How many bedrooms was

understanding -- and this is in the beginning of last year -- was it your understanding that your daughter Casey had a job? A Yes, it was. Page 5

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CAnthony-rough.txt Where was she working, to your knowledge, at

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A Rock Caf. Q

To my knowledge, Universal Studios and Hard

And that was something that she told you

during that time period? A Q Yes. Did you ever learn from any other source

during that time period that she was working there; in other words, somebody from the Hard Rock Caf ever call her for work? the house? A Q Not that I'm aware of. So the only source of information would have Did somebody from Universal ever contact

been from your daughter; is that fair to say, from Casey? A Q Yes. And you also knew some of your daughter's

friends is my understanding? A Q A Some of them, yes. Amy -- well. Amy Huizenga were friends? I didn't

I never met Amy Huizenga in March.

know Amy Huizenga until July the 15th of 2008. Q Thanks for clarifying that. So of Casey's

friends during, lit's say, the early time period of last year, of Casey's friends, did you ever hear from them anybody mention where, in fact, she worked? A I didn't talk to Casey's friends.

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So it's -- I apologize.

So my understanding

is what you're telling me is Casey's the one who told you Page 6

CAnthony-rough.txt 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2005. A I have never -- I had never had a reason to she had a job back during that time period; is that correct? A That is correct. I actually was with her when

she met her first boss back in June of 2004. Q All right. Now, but I'm talking about in

believe she did not still have her job which I did have knowledge of that she did have a job. Q A And that first boss was who? You know, I can't remember his name right now. I'll probably remember

It's not on the tip of my tongue. it before this is over, though. Q A I'm sorry.

What year was that? It was

2004, I believe, I when she started.

the year before Caylee was born. Q Now, do you or your husband claim Casey, your

daughter, as a dependent on your taxes? A years old. Q So it's fair to say she paid her own taxes or No. I haven't claimed Casey since she was 18

should have paid her own taxes? A Yes.

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Did you ever see any documents coming in like

a W-2 to the house? A Q Yes, I have seen a W-2 form. Another thing I should have told you earlier I'm going to ask a question. You

and I apologize.

probably know what I'm asking you, but because we want to make this clear, let me finish -- I appreciate what Page 7

CAnthony-rough.txt 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 you're doing, but let me finish my question and then we'll go from there. So back during the 2004 time period, are you saying you saw a W-2 come in? A Q A Q Yes, I did. How about in 2005? I don't recall. Don't recall seeing it. And how about going

forward from there 2006, 2007? A Q A No. And then 2008? The only reason is because that was her first I did not

W-2 and I actually helped her with her taxes.

need to help her do that after that year, so that's why I would not have had a reason to look at her. Q But on that point, after 2005, did you ever

see her doing her taxes? A No.

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Q A Q

Do you know if she ever received a tax refund? All I've seen was an H&R Block card from her. All right. So as far as -- let's go back now

to the period when -- she was taking care of Caylee and there were issues about baby-sitters. focus in on it. I just want to

Your understanding was she had a job

that was the same job of the boss that you had met back in 2004? A Q A Yes, similar. Similar. Was it at the same company?

Not really because she never worked for She work at Universal Studios. Page 8 These

Universal Studios.

CAnthony-rough.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 were companies that were contracted by Universal Studios. Q Have you subsequently come to learn about when

the last time was she actually did, in fact, have a job? A Q I can't remember the exact date. Is it fair to say, though, that you've come

now at this point in time to find out that she did not actually hold a job at Universal Studios back in about a year ago or so back in March of April of last year? A Q She never worked for Universal Studios. Did she have any job you're aware of now in

March or April of last year where she received a paycheck? A Yes.

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Q A Q A Q A

Where was that? Through my -- where my son works. And what's that? Click and Park. I'm sorry? Game Day, Click and Park. I'm not sure of the

exact name, but I know that she did receive a paycheck because she did help him. Q A Q A How much did she receive; do you know? I have no idea. And what was her position? She just helped him with some of his work on

the Super Bowl last year, a year ago. Q So Super Bowl a year ago would have been in, Other than

obviously, end of January, early February.

helping your son, Lee Anthony, are you aware of any other payments or source of income that she would have been Page 9

CAnthony-rough.txt 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 12 receiving last year? A Q Not -- no, not to my knowledge. So is it fair to say your understanding is

that she did not have a source of income certainly from Universal or any of those other entities associated within Universal back in 2008? A Q That's correct. Okay. Now, your husband has testified and

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we've heard from him about who watched your granddaughter, and it's my understanding that she lived in your house, of course. And did you help contribute

for feeding her and clothing her, all that type of stuff? A Q A Yes, I did. Paid medical bills, I assume? No, I never paid -- I think I only paid one

medical bill for Caylee, and that was right after Caylee was born. Q Is it fair to say that you were involved

actively in raising her? A Q time? A Q 2008? A Q A Q A Genteva Home Care. What was your position? I'm a nurse manager. And do you have a certain shift that you work? I work day term. Page 10 Yes. And where was it you were working back in Yes. And of -- my understanding is you work full

CAnthony-rough.txt 23 24 Q A Is that 7:00 to 7:00 or -My -- you know, I could go in at 7:30. I could be there at 7:00. I It just

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depends on what time I wanted to be there.

But usually

there at least by 8:30, and then till 5:00, 5:30, 6:00 or whatever. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Is that a Monday through Friday? Monday through Friday. Home health nurse is what you are? Nurse manager in a home healthcare company. There's night shifts and then there's day? Not in my company. So just day shift? Not for what I do. And your husband was also working back in

2008; is that correct? A Q Yes. And what was his job, let's say, starting with

January through December 2008? A You know, I can't remember. George has had a

couple jobs in 2008. Q

I can't remember what he had.

There were periods of time, though, that both

of you were working; is that correct? A Q Yes. Now, at the times that George wasn't working,

would George be actively involved in the watching of your granddaughter? A George was actively involved with Caylee when

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CAnthony-rough.txt he was working or when he wasn't. We both were. Q I want to be clear on my question so let me

clarify it again, and I apologize. A Q I thought you were finished. That's okay. I apologize.

What I'm saying is when he

wasn't at the office or wherever he was working and he was at home, would he be the one that was in charge of watching her and babysitting for her, taking care of her? A Q If Casey wasn't there, yes. Now, if Casey wasn't working during this time

period and your husband was taking care of your granddaughter, do you know where Casey would have been going if she wasn't working or do you have any information on that? A Q I -- I have no idea. Aside from you watching your granddaughter and

George watching your granddaughter and then, of course, Casey, of the three of you watching her, what would you say the percentage was? Do you think that you and your

husband watched her more than Casey back in, let's say, before 2008, the 2007 time period? A No. I think Casey watched Caylee more than

any of us did. Q Okay. So a statement that 99 percent of the

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watched her more often? A Casey watched her more often. I was --

Casey -- when I would come home from work, I would be there. Q Right. Page 12

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CAnthony-rough.txt And I would not necessarily watch Casey, I

mean, Caylee, but Caylee was in the same house. Q A I understand. So unless Caylee, you know, unless Casey was

gone from the house, then I didn't have to, quote, unquote, baby-sit her -Q A I understand that. -- and on the weekends. So if I'm working

Monday through Friday 40 to 50 hours a week -Q Now, and if your understanding is that Casey

doesn't have a full-time job during this time period, if she wasn't watching her and your husband wasn't watching her and you weren't watching her, did you all have any other baby-sitter during this time period? A Caylee. Q Let's kind of go back on that. Would one of There was different people that baby-sat

those people be Lauren Gibbs? A Q Yes. And what --

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A Q

But not in 2008. I appreciate you clarifying. Lauren Gibbs would -Let's go back.

A Q A

Lauren Gibbs. Lauren Gibbs would have babysit her when? Right after Casey went back to work, which was

three months after Caylee was born. Q So do you know how long a time period it was

that Lauren Gibbs watched her? A Lauren Gibbs watched her probably until about Page 13

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January, roughly. Q A Q

CAnthony-rough.txt I can't say for sure on the dates.

January what year would that be? 2006. And do you know if she was ever compensated or

paid for watching her? A I don't believe so. Lauren did that as a

favor because she was Casey's best friend. Q And as far as other people in that same

category, people who did it because they were friends with either you or your husband or the family, who else would be in the category of let's call them baby-sitters? Who else would there be? A I know her fiance at that time, Jesse Grund, He watched her either at his parents' I know his father, Richard Grund,

watched Caylee.

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and his father or his mother, Deborah Grund, watched Caylee for Casey while Casey would work. Christina Chester watched Caylee. Caylee. Q Let me just stop you there. So we have Lauren I know that

Holly Gognon watched

Gibbs, Jesse Grund -- and Jesse Grund, obviously, knew the family and knew you; is that right? A Q Uh-huh. You have to answer out loud because she's

taking it down. A Q Yes. And Richard and Deborah Grund, you knew them

and they also knew the family? A Q Yes. Holly >Gagne? Page 14

CAnthony-rough.txt 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 18 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q >Gogne. Holly >Gogne, you know her as well? Yes. And the family knows her? Yes. And Christina what was her name? Chester. Gesture? Chester, C. You know her and the family knows her as well?

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I did not meet Christina Chester till -- you

know, I met Christina Chester briefly when Casey was pregnant. I met her at a like Babies r Us, and that was I didn't

the only really time that I had met her before. really know her that well. Casey's. Q Fair. Somebody who knew Casey and you

She was a schoolmate of

actually had laid eyes on and talked to; is that right? A Uh-huh, actually because I ran into her one

day when Casey and I were shopping for Caylee's things. Q It's your understanding, correct me if I'm

wrong, that Holly >Gogne, Grund family and also Christina Chester, they did it, again, because they were friends with the family and they weren't compensated; is that right? A Q A Q either? Page 15 As far as I know. Well, you certainly never paid them? No, I didn't. And you don't believe your husband paid them

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CAnthony-rough.txt No, I didn't. Wouldn't have been our

responsibility to do that. Q On that point, though, did Casey ever say to

you that she paid any of these people to watch your

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A Q A issue. Q

We never discussed that. So no knowledge if she did or not? Never discussed it with her. It wasn't an

Now, all these people -- again, we're talking

about the time period when your granddaughter was from an infant through being a toddler, of all these people, though, they were all people that you could reach out to and get ahold of if necessary; is that fair to say? If

something happened and something happened to either you or your husband -A No, that's not true. I never had Jesse

Grund's cell phone number. cell phone number.

I never had Richard Grund's I

I do not know where they lived.

never went to their house.

So, no, that's not correct. Lauren was the

I never had Christina's phone number.

only one that I had a phone number for and I knew where she lived. Q Let me go back, though. But you knew that

Richard's first name and last name, Richard Grund and Deborah Grund, Jesse's first name and last name, and you had actually met them? A Q Yes, I'm sorry. You actually met them and they were people

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them; is that right? A Q A Yes, correct. Now, have we covered all the people? No. There was other friends of Casey's that

watched Caylee. Q Now, the people that you know and that you've

met and all the people you listed for me are people that you know and you've met. A Q I met you. A Q I could identify them. I met you and you could identify me and I I wouldn't so I know them. I understand. When I say know, I mean it like

could identify you. A I probably wouldn't be able to pick out

Christina again except we got close after Caylee went missing. I would know her now, but prior to that, I

wouldn't be able to pick her out of a line up. Q All right. Now, did you -- at some point in Was anybody in this

time -- these were baby-sitters.

group, were they ever referred to as a nanny? A Q No. And your understanding is a nanny is somebody

that's compensated or paid for their services? A You're assuming that's my understanding of a

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nanny.

I really have never thought of what a nanny is.

A nanny is someone that helps watch a child. Q All right. Well, in your experience, a nanny

generally, correct me if I'm wrong -Page 17

CAnthony-rough.txt 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Jesse is the one, excuse me, that started Okay? Casey called her the

calling Zanny the nanny. baby-sitter. Q

So the nanny came from the Grunds. And we're going to get -- I I know you're fast-forwarding

Fair enough.

haven't gotten there yet. to that. A Q

I just don't see the relevance. I understand, ma'am, and we're going to get

there in a moment. So of all these people, though, it's fair to say that baby-sitters that you've listed for me are baby-sitters that you knew and if push came to shove, you could get ahold of them somehow. Something happened to

you, your husband or Casey, you could get ahold of these people? A I'm not sure at the time if I could have You

gotten ahold of the Grunds without contacting Casey. know, there was other people. Hopkins.

I saw pictures of Jeffrey

The other gentleman that Zenaida watched, Zanny

watched, her son Zachary, I saw a picture of Zachary and I could pick them out because I saw pictures of

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them. Q A Q A Have you ever seen a picture of Zanny? No, I haven't. Now, I wanted to clarify -But I have a picture in my head from

descriptions from the last two and a half years. Q But unlike the people that you listed to me

because you've never met Zanny, I assume, you can't -you can't tell me what she looks like from your own Page 18

CAnthony-rough.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 personal observations; is that right? A Q That's correct. So this isn't somebody that if something had

happened to either yourself or your husband that you had a method of reaching out and get ahold of this -A Actually, I had phone numbers for Zanny at

different times and I had addresses at different times. Q A Q A Q A Why don't you tell me the phone number. I don't have it now. Where is it? I -- I don't have it now. Where would it have been? Would have been in an address book, something

that Casey had or I had. Q So when you say you had -- let me get this You had addresses and phone numbers of Zanny,

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and Zanny is -- your understanding -- when you're saying Zanny, I want to make sure, Zanny is the person that you were saying was watching -A Q Casey always gave me a phone number, yes. And these phone numbers, you're saying they

are in existence and you've written them down somewhere in an address book and they're out there somewhere to be found; is that right? A Q that? A Q I gave it all to the sheriff's department. That will include the address of Zanny, of Page 19 I gave all that to the sheriff's department. So then the sheriff's department will have all

this person?

CAnthony-rough.txt 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A department. Q The phone numbers, do you remember the area Anything I had I gave to the sheriff's

code of them? A Q No. How about the address, for instance, of the

part of the town where the address was? A From my knowledge, Casey told me there was

like four different addresses over the course of three years, that she moved quite frequently. Q And these four -- the addresses, then, and the

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phone numbers, they all came from Casey? A Q Yes. Did Zenaida or Zanny, the person that you

believed was watching Caylee, did she in any way provide to you a phone number or an address? A Q A Q No, never needed to talk to her. Did she -I never needed to talk to her. If the need arose that you needed to talk to

her, get ahold of her, would you have had to go to these addresses and phone numbers that Casey gave you; is that right? A Q person? A Q things. No, I have not. And let me -- I just want to clarify some We have some things that I need to ask about Yes, correct. Did you ever dial or call or talk to this

this, and I just want to clarify so we're clear on a Page 20

CAnthony-rough.txt 20 21 22 23 24 couple of different things. (Whereupon, a video is being played for the witness not reported by the court reporter. ) Q Let me ask that question. The statement that

you made there about this is a person who's been in

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Caylee's birth; is that accurate? A No, that was a misstatement. And that was a

week after my granddaughter went missing. Q A I understand. The reason I made --

That was like three days after Caylee went That was -- that was just

missing and, do you know what? a misstatement. Q And that's fine.

We're clarifying.

That

statement there that this is somebody whose name you had heard. A Q And probably no sleep for, you know. That statement, just to be clear on the record

that this is somebody whose name has been in normal conversation around your house for three years prior to Caylee's birth, that's inaccurate? A Q A Q That's inaccurate. Right. From about 2006, to clarify that. So you're sitting here as we sit here today,

again, this is at a different circumstance than that -are you saying that her Zanny's identity was conversed around your house from when until when? A Zanny's name came up back around when Jesse

and Casey were engaged, and that was in 2006. Page 21

CAnthony-rough.txt 25 Rough Draft - 26 Q So in 2006, you first heard the name Zanny.

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Did you ever hear Jesse talk about Zanny? A Q A Q A Yes. Did jesse Grund talk about Zanny? Yes. What did Jesse Grund say as far as who -I can't remember. I just know the name came

up while he was -Q When I say talk about Zanny, I want to be a Did Jesse Grund ever

little bit more clear about that.

tell you that he had met or seen Zanny? A Q No. So where the name came up, it may have been in

conversation as you said, but it wasn't like I just came from Zanny, and -A Q A Q No. -- Zanny was watching Caylee; is that right? No, correct. Let me expand that question out a little bit.

Is there any other person besides your daughter that has told you that they have met or seen Zanny? A Q A Q A No, but Caylee talked about Zanny's dog. We'll get to that in a second. She's another person. I appreciate that. I just want to be clear?

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If there's a dog that belongs to Zanny, then

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there must be a Zanny. Q Fair enough. Besides your daughter and Caylee Page 22

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CAnthony-rough.txt saying that about the dog, okay, is there any other adult that has said to you I have met Zanny or I know who she is? A Q pointed. Not that I'm aware of. I'm just going to hit this briefly on this You said Caylee talked about the dog. Describe

for me what time period we're talking about that was. A 2008. Q A Q dog? A Q A Q She talked about her dog. Okay. Caylee loved dogs. So I assume there is a statement about the dog March and May -May have been even before that. Anything else besides the statement about the Probably sometime between March and May of

and that would be the extent of it? A Q Uh-huh. So sort of backing up then, as far as whether

Zanny was somebody that any adult saw, you don't have any knowledge that this Zanny person who was watching Caylee

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A Q

I wouldn't know if anybody saw her, you know. That's kind of what I'm getting at. You

wouldn't know -A How would I know if you saw somebody. I

wouldn't know if she saw me.

I'm not in someone else's That's kind

head, so I have no idea if anybody saw it. of a question I couldn't answer. Page 23

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Q Zanny. A

Okay.

CAnthony-rough.txt Did anybody say to you, hey, I met

She's a nice girl? No, I never -- Zanny never came up in

conversation with anybody other than Casey typically. Q So where you're saying here on Greta

Vansustren, and we got the dates wrong but you're saying in normal conversation around your house, that normal conversation you're talking about is from Casey and you; is that right? A Q Right, or my husband George. And it's your understanding that he had never

seen Zanny either; is that right? A Q That's correct. And once again, as far as the phone number and

how to get ahold of her or address, that would have been all information that had been given to you by Casey and you say you've turned all that over? A Right. Casey would give me a new phone number

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for Zanny probably every three months because she said the girl changed her phone number almost like she changed her address. Q A Q Did Casey tell you that she was paying Zanny? I never asked her. Okay. What was your understanding of whether

Zanny was doing it for free or whether she was getting compensated? A My understanding was Jeffrey Hopkins was

paying Zanny, who was his ex-girlfriend, to watch his little boy Zachary when Casey first met Zanny, and Jeffrey was compensating for both children. Page 24

CAnthony-rough.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q A Q Okay. And then later on -Let me stop you there, and we'll get to that

in just a second. A Q I'm answering your question. You are, ma'am, and I appreciate that. Your

understanding is that Jeffrey Hopkins was the ex-boyfriend of Zanny? A Q Yes. And how did you gain that understanding or

that knowledge? A Because that's what Casey told me. When she

25 first met Jeff, she was working for -- I believe she was Rough Draft - 30

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

still working for Colorvision or Kodak, one of them, I don't know when they changed hands, and Jeffrey was a IT tech at Universal. Q A Okay. And that's when I saw his picture and

Zachary's picture. Q A Q Now, where is Jeffrey Hopkins today? I have no idea. Now, the information that Zanny was the

ex-girlfriend or girlfriend of Jeffrey Hopkins came you to by Jeffrey Hopkins? A Q A Q No, I never met him. How did you get that information -From Casey. I'll finish the question and we'll get it.

You know what I'm asking and I appreciate it. The information about Jeffrey Hopkins being Page 25

18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt the boyfriend of Zanny -MR. CONWAY: THE WITNESS: It's all right. He just asked me a question how

I got it and I answered it. Q A I'll reask it. I appreciate that.

Raise your hand when you're finished and I'll

know that you're done. Q I think you'll know when I'm finished, ma'am.

25 Rough Draft - 31

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

A Q

I thought I did.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Jeffrey Hopkins and this relationship between

him and Zanny and this being the boyfriend and also the part about him compensating Zanny, that information came from Casey? A Q Yes, it did. You've never spoken to Jeffrey Hopkins about

this relationship between Zanny and him? A Q A Q No. Have you ever spoken to Jeffrey Hopkins? No, I haven't. So the only information that you have, and if The only information you have

there's more, tell me.

about Jeffrey Hopkins having a girlfriend named Zanny who was watching the kids came from your daughter Casey? A Q A Q Correct. And there's no other source out there? Correct. All right. So it's your understanding based

upon what Casey told you that Jeffrey Hopkins was paying for Zanny to watch both children. How long a time period Is that from Casey?

was that and how did you learn that? Page 26

23 24

A of 2007. Q

CAnthony-rough.txt From Casey. I think that was until December

25 Rough Draft - 32

How about after December 2007?

Obviously, you

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

had an understanding that she was being paid by Jeffrey Hopkins. Did you come to an understanding as to who now

was paying Zanny after Jeffrey Hopkins was no longer paying her? A Q I didn't ask. Wasn't an issue.

Did you have an assumption in your head that

Zanny is something who charges for her services? A Q Again, the -- it never came up. Little different question, though. Did you

have an assumption in your head that Zanny was somebody who charges for childcare? A By that time Casey and Zanny had been friends,

so a lot of Casey's friends volunteered to watch Caylee. Caylee was a delightful young child -Q A Yes, ma'am. -- that everybody liked to watch, so you asked What I'm telling you is And I'm

me a question, let me finish it.

it never came up and I didn't think about it. answering your question. Q Just so I'm clear.

You had an understanding

in your mind that at one point in time Zanny was being compensated by Jeffrey Hopkins; is that correct? A Q That's correct. And as you said that ended around the end of

25 2007; is that correct? Rough Draft - 33

From my understanding. Page 27

CAnthony-rough.txt 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q And after that, do you have an understanding

in your mind as to who, if anybody, was compensating Zanny for her childcare services? A No, because I was never -- I never spoke to So, again, Casey told me that she was When Jeffrey moved, I

Casey about that.

being compensated by Jeffrey.

didn't ask who was compensating Zanny, so I have no understanding. I do not know. Again, Zanny was a friend

of Casey's, so she could very well have volunteered. That did not come up. Q Did Casey say to you that Zanny, my friend, is

volunteering to watch my daughter? A Q The subject did not come up. So when you're saying it could have happened,

that's not something you know either -A Q I can't speculate. Ma'am, I appreciate that. Let me finish my

question, if you don't mind.

When you're saying it could

have happened, that isn't something you know by a affected that you've learned from anybody; is that right? A Q No. So as far as whether she was volunteering,

this Zanny person, or whether she was being compensated

25 from 2007 on, you really don't know? Rough Draft - 34

1 2 3 4 5 6

No, and I don't know if Casey ever paid Lauren

or anybody else either because I never asked them. Q A I appreciate that. Again, that didn't come up. So I never -- I

never interviewed any of her baby-sitters to find out if they were getting paid or not. It wasn't my position to Page 28

CAnthony-rough.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 35 back. do that. Q I understand that, ma'am. That wasn't really

my question, ma'am. A I'm trying to clarify the question when you

ask me specifically about Zanny, so I'm clarifying it wasn't just Zanny that I didn't have that knowledge of. I didn't have the knowledge for any of them. several people to watch. not. She asked

I don't know if they paid or But, again, Casey

I assume they didn't get paid.

was working then, so it's irrelevant to C. Zenaida Gonzalez. Q I'm sorry. You said two things, but let me just go on During this time period, you have no specific

knowledge if Zanny was doing it for free or whether she was being paid; is that correct? MR. CONWAY: Mr. Dill, she's answered the

question over and over again. MR. DILL: Sir, you can make your objection.

You know you can make your objection.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

BY MR. DILL: Q I just want to clarify. You have no specific

knowledge that Zanny was doing it for free or being paid from 2007 on; is that correct? A Q As I stated, I have no particular knowledge. Now, when you said Casey was working after

2007, is this based on the information you told me before about her working at Universal or is it based on some other fact that we haven't talked about? A Casey never worked at Universal Studios, for Page 29

Universal Studios.

CAnthony-rough.txt 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q I misunderstood when you said that before.

Anybody affiliated with Universal Studios or Hard Rock Caf, which you told me about earlier. Do you have any

understanding or information that Casey was working for any entity after 2007 when Jeff Hopkins was out of the picture going forward? A At this -- at that point, I was under the I do not have any proof

impression that she was working. that she was working. Q

And you've come to learn that she was not

working; is that correct? A Q That's correct. So when you said before that Casey was working

25 then, it's your understanding now that Casey was not Rough Draft - 36

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

working then; is that right? A My understanding now is that she wasn't

working at those particular places. Q A Q Or anywhere else? I don't know that. So you don't have any information that she was

working anywhere else? A Q I don't know that. All right. I can't answer that.

So you told me before you never Did you ever talk to Casey

talked to Zanny on the phone.

when she was with Zanny or said she was with Zanny? A Q A possible. Q All right. Now -Page 30 Possibly. Don't have a recollection specifically? I don't have a specific date. That's

CAnthony-rough.txt 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q apartment? A Q A Because she told me she was at the hospital. Which apartment was that? Again, I can't tell you. I'd have to have a I know she called me from Zanny's apartments. Because she told you she was at Zanny's

specific date to tell you what end of town she lived on that particular time. Q Let's go general to make it easier. At what

25 Rough Draft - 37

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

point in time was it that you were called from Zanny's apartment knowing anywhere in town or any of the counties around here, including Osceola and Sanford, that she was calling from somewhere? A Q Zanny only lived in Orange County. She only lived in Orange County, and how do

you know that? A Q A Because Casey told me. All right. And when did Casey tell you that?

Over the years that we talked about Zanny,

that she lived -- the places that she described, the areas of town that she described, was only in Orange County. Q So when she called from the apartment, did

Zanny ever have a house or was it always an apartment? A It was always an apartment, to my knowledge, It

except her mom had a house, I believe, was a house. could have been an apartment. Q from Casey? A Casey, of course. Page 31

You're getting that information about her mom

CAnthony-rough.txt 22 23 24 Q And so all the information you have about All the information you have

Zanny -- ma'am, if I may.

about Zanny comes from Casey? A Of course, because Caylee's too little to tell

25 Rough Draft - 38

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

me about it. Q So when you're saying that she called from an

apartment, that would have been Casey telling you I'm calling from Zanny's and it's wherever it is? A tonight. Q How many times did Casey stay out of the house I mean, we're talking about Right. She'd say I'm going to stay at Zanny's

with Zanny and with Caylee? before -A Q What time frame?

Let me narrow it down.

How many times was it

before June 15th that Casey stayed out of the house with Zanny and with Caylee? A Q Maybe on an average once or twice a month. And during this time period, you're saying

that Caylee was able to speak and talk about where she had been or where she had gone? A Well, Caylee's been speaking since she was 18 Unless I specifically

months in phrases, but she's two.

asked her questions, her point of reference is what's right in front of her. Q So she would never volunteer about other than

the dog as you told me, never volunteer about, let's say, where she was or anything like that? A Right. Page 32

25 Rough Draft - 39

CAnthony-rough.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Now, so during this time period -- and we're

going to go on forward a little bit here in the March time period because we're already into 2008, March through May of 2008, it's your understanding that Zanny is a baby-sitter for Caylee; is that correct, or a nanny, baby-sitter, whatever you want to use? A Q Yes. And that's all, again, based upon what Casey

has told you, essentially, that she's the one watching her; is that right? A Q A Q A Right. All right. And that wouldn't be very often. How often would it be? You know, just -- most of the time Casey was

gone in the evenings so I would watch Caylee. Q So when you said that there were times where

she would stay over at Zanny's house, that would be how many times would you estimate? A Q I said once or twice a month. Once or twice a month, so we're starting at

what time period of once or twice a month she stayed over there? A It would have had to have been when -- she had

25 to have gone when I was at work because if I had been Rough Draft - 40

1 2 3 4

home, she wouldn't have needed to take her. Q How about with the staying over part because

you would be home every night, wouldn't you? A Right, but if she was already gone and I was Page 33

CAnthony-rough.txt 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 at work -Q A Q Zanny -A Most of the time, Caylee -- Casey brought So once or two times a month? Yes. Okay. And it's your understanding that the

Caylee up to my office and dropped her off and then I took her home. Q Couple other questions here on the dog issue. Was it ever described? I don't

What kind of dog was it? A

You know, it was a little white dog.

remember if it was a Pomeranian mix or what it was. Q And when she's saying she liked playing with

the dog, how did she describe the dog? A Q A months ago. Q She talked about the new puppy, then how did She just called it her -- the new puppy. So -I can't remember the name. It was several

you get in your mind about Zanny and the new puppy? A Because I asked her if it was Zanny's puppy.

25 Rough Draft - 41

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Q A Q

And she responded yes? Yes. So there is no other description besides the

new puppy in all that? A Q A Correct. What time period was this that that was said? I believe I told you somewhere between March

and May, and it could have been earlier than that. Q So when she stayed out of the house, let's say Page 34

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt during the March and May time period, if it's a couple times or once or twice a month, that would have been in March or May. A Q A Q A Q A Q From March going forward to May?

It was all the time. All the time? Uh-huh, once or twice a month. Going back to when? Probably December. December 2 -January or December. January, December 2007, so you're saying once

or twice a month from January to December -A Q Yeah, January 2008, December 2007. Till May. Again, you never picked up either

your daughter or Caylee at this apartment or location

25 where this was? Rough Draft - 42

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

A Q A Q

Never had to. And it never actually physically -The need never arose. I understand. You never physically went there

to this apartment? A Q Correct. And you never physically saw a dog or anything

that your granddaughter had been talking about? A Q No. Was there ever a time that you told law

enforcement about Caylee talking about Zanny's dog? A Q I believe so. Do you know if you were asked that by law

enforcement? Page 35

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt I don't know if law enforcement knew to ask me

about a dog. Q A Well -Oh, actually, I do remember speaking to law

enforcement about it because there was a tip that came in from Texas in July, and the person fit Zenaida's description, and she had the same type of dog. And the

little girl at the pool said her name was Caylee, and she fit the description of my granddaughter, so I did speak to them about it. Q And this -- that was in response to the tip

25 Rough Draft - 43

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

later on? A Q A Q Yes, and that was probably in July. Okay. Or August. But when you told me -- you told me a few

minutes ago that Caylee would talk about Zanny's dog, did you ever volunteer that to law enforcement? A Q A You know, I don't know. I don't know.

No recollection if you did or not? No, no. I volunteered a lot of stuff to law I gave

enforcement.

I gave them Zanny's curling iron.

them some movies that came from Zanny's apartment that Casey had brought home, you know, different items. Q We're going to get to the curling iron and Was it at law enforcement that you

movies in a second.

talked to about the dog; do you recall? A It had to be someone from missing persons and

probably either John Allen or Gary Mellich because they were on the case or could have been Nick Savage from FBI Page 36

20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt because I spoke to them with tips. Q And every one of those -- you had interviews

with them that were recorded; is that right? A Q A I know that now. Okay. No one told me that when we were having them.

25 Rough Draft - 44

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

So is it fair to say when you were -- when you

were talking and you're being open and honest with them, clearly? A Right. It wasn't during those taped

interviews, though, that you guys have seen on TV. Q A It's another interview you're saying -It's when I used go down to the sheriff's

department three times a week and go over tips with them. Q A And it still -They didn't pull me into a room where they had

video, so I'm sure that was not part of the video. Q So you don't know right now as you're sitting

here who it was from law enforcement that you spoke with? A No. I'm sure it was someone from missing

persons because that's who I would, you know, go over tips with. It was either Cary Roddick or Awilda and, I'm

sorry, I can't remember her last name right now. Q And there was -- was that one occasion or more

than one occasion or just in response to that tip? A occasions. I talked to them about these tips on several Sometimes the same tip on several occasions

so I can't tell you how many times. Q Now, when Casey would stay over at the

baby-sitter's over at Zanny's, would they pack a bag for Page 37

CAnthony-rough.txt 25 Caylee? Rough Draft - 45

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 46 days.

A Q

Casey always packed a bag for Caylee. So she had a understanding or knowledge when

she was going to be staying over and she would take clothes from the house? A Casey always had a bag for Caylee no matter Caylee and I went to the store, we

where she went.

always had a bag for Caylee with extra clothes and diapers and things in it. Q in the bag? A Probably two, as a normal thing. I used to do How many days worth of clothes would have been

that for my kids.

Even if I just went to my mom for the

day, I'd pack two outfits because you never know what kids are going to get into. Q Was there ever an extended period of time,

more than, say, two days, that Casey was outside of the house with Caylee -- I'm sorry -- that Casey and Caylee were outside of the house with Zanny prior to the disappearance? A Casey was never. It was never consecutive two

It was only one day at a time before June. Q So it was never a period of two, three, four,

five -A Q Nope. I'm saying one to two times a month.

So there was never an extended period of

1 2 3

time -A Q No. -- as we go along that she's out of the house Page 38

CAnthony-rough.txt 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 47 for a week of time? A Q No, not prior to June 16. Zanny's curling iron and movies, where did

those come from and who gave them to you? A I remember about a year ago Casey -- actually, It was a hair straightener I saw it. I asked her

it wasn't a curling iron.

that Casey had at the house. where did you get that.

She said Zanny gave it to me.

And same thing about a year or so ago Casey had some videos and she said that Zanny didn't want the videos anymore so we had some videos at the house so I gave them to John Allen and Cary rod Rick from missing persons because I thought that there might be fingerprints on them. I also gave them Caylee's airbag at that time that Casey bought specifically for Zanny's apartment if she ever had to stay overnight there. Q A needed it. Q A And where was -- where was the airbag? The airbag's with the sheriff's department. She would bring the airbag with her? Casey had the airbag in her car so if she ever

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

So how about the time period when she was gone

and supposedly he had given Zanny the child, where was the airbag then? A question. Q Okay. Well, we're going to get to in a second What do you mean supposedly? Clarify that

but there came a point 234 time where your daughter was supposedly, according to her, gave Caylee to the Page 39

CAnthony-rough.txt 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 16. Q I'm sorry, ma'am. June 6th, moving forward, baby-sitter. A Q A Q The baby-sitter had the child?

What specific date are you talking about? June 15th moving forward. All right. So at that point in time, the airbag that

you're telling me about -A Casey, from my understanding, never gave

Caylee to Zanny. Q A Q A Okay. I think you understand what I'm asking. .

(Shakes head.)

When she went missing on June 15 -She didn't go missing on June 15. It was June

was this airbag, this air mattress that you're telling me about, was that in Casey's possession or your possession? A That was at the house at that time.

25 Rough Draft - 48

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

Q A Q

The house meaning your house? Yes. Okay. So this wasn't a trip where, as you

said before, that there would be times where she slept over and that the air mattress would have gone with her. This wasn't one of them; is that right? A No. From my understanding, on June 16th,

Casey was going to pick Caylee back up at 4:00 in the afternoon or whatever time it was. Q Okay. Well, you were aware of the presence of

the air mattress in your house; was that right? A I didn't know it was in the house until I

started going through things. Page 40

CAnthony-rough.txt 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q A When was that? Actually, I didn't even think about the air

mattress until -- till the day they gave it to John Allen, and I can't remember the specific date, but it was the day after they did their first search of the house. Q So the date they first searched your house

would have been after the 911 calls; is that right? A Q house? A That's what I'm just saying. I can't remember Yes. When was the date of the first search of the

25 the date of the first search of the house, but it was the Rough Draft - 49

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

very next day because of what they were looking for in the house is when I started thinking that next morning and I was cleaning, and when I saw the hair straightener, I said, oh, my gosh, because they were looking for evidence at that time. It was the first time they were

actually looking in my house for evidence, so I thought something that may have fingerprints or hairs on it, so I went through closets. I went through things to see if

anything would trigger in my head something that they could use. So I also gave them her favorite movies like bam by and different things so that they could take fingerprints off. Q A you. Q This air mattresses you're telling me about, We're getting far -You asked me a question and I'm explaining to

this is something that Casey used to take with her to Page 41

CAnthony-rough.txt 19 20 21 22 23 24 Zanny so her child could sleep on; is that right? A Q If she thought that she might be staying late. So it wasn't until after there was a search

through the house that you actually thought about whether the air mattress had been taken to Zanny's house or not? A Like I said, I happened to stumble across the

25 air mattress and I had more gotten about the air Rough Draft - 50

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

mattress.

I didn't realize that it was here.

For all I You

know, it could have been in someone's apartment.

know, Casey -- she could have left it at Zanny's house. I hadn't seen it until I started looking for it. in a spare closet. Q Did you ever tell investigators that she used It was

take this air mattress over to have her daughter Caylee sleep at Zanny's? A Yes, I did. When I gave it to John Allen that

was the reason I handed it to John Allen. Q Prior to the time you handed it to John Allen,

there were other times you talked to investigators? A Again, I forgot about the air mattress until I

rank across it when I was looking specifically after they searched the house on the first time so I wouldn't have had a reason to think about it. Q So during the 31 day time period when Caylee

in your mind was missing, that you -A mind. Q There came a point by July 3rd at least you 31 day period Caylee was not missing in my

that thought she was missing? A No, I did not believe that Caylee Marie was Page 42

CAnthony-rough.txt 24 missing until July 15th. If I would have thought that

25 Caylee Marie was missing before July 15th, I would have Rough Draft - 51

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

called 911 before July 15th. Q Okay. Let me -- we'll get back to the air You had a Myspace account, did

mattress in just a bit. you not? A Q A

Yes, I opened a Myspace account. And you actually would post on Myspace, right? I posted it for my daughter -- for Casey's

benefit only because I didn't have any friends on Myspace, and I did it -Q Let me hand you -- we'll go ahead and mark And that's -- you recognize that,

this as an exhibit. don't you.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was marked.) A Q Yeah, I know it. I wrote it.

You wrote it and this is something you put on

Myspace, correct? A Right, for Casey. And I tried to get her to

be my friend so she could read that. Q posting? A Q July the 3rd. All right. And you say, what? What is the All right. So what is the date of that

title of the posting? A Q My Caylee is missing. All right. So is it fair to say that when you

25 Rough Draft - 52

wrote this, your mind was that Caylee, in fact, was Page 43

CAnthony-rough.txt 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 53 missing? A Q No. So that doesn't mean -- my Caylee's missing

doesn't mean what it says? A Q No. Okay. So on July 3rd did you ever think to go

look for this air mattress or find out if, in fact, the air mattress had been taken over to Zanny's house? A Q No. So this wasn't until sometime later that you

thought of it and you didn't -A I didn't think of it until I ran across it

when I was looking for things in the house that could potentially help the sheriff's department. Q Okay. Now, you told me a few moments ago that

there was a time period, I guess, where she would stay over at Zanny's house. Did you ever have any notation In other

anywhere of when those times could have been?

words, some people keep a diary, calendar while it's going on? Can you direct me specifically from this May

or March time period on through to June what days would it have been? A Q I have no idea. You have no idea and there's no way --

1 2 3 4 5 6

A Q A Q

I have no idea. There is nothing we can look at to tell us? Absolutely not. Let me clarify a couple other things here. If

any, maybe one and the only time Casey -(Video being played.) Page 44

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt Was they were crashing at Zanny's.

So the

crashing at Zanny's, I want to talk about that is that what you're describing to me that she would say to you she was crashing over at Zanny's? A Q Uh-huh. And those times she was crashing over at

Zanny's it's your recollection that she would bring the air mattress with her? A No. When Casey knew that she may work late or

what she had told me when she would work late, she would take the air mattress and have it in her car. Okay? And

if she felt that it was too late to come home and to disrupt Caylee, she would stay at Zanny's and stay overnight and then she'd be home the next morning. Q A And say she was crashing? She was crashing at Zanny's. That way she

could sleep on the couch or wherever next to Caylee in the air mattress and then pick her up -- and then bring

25 her home the next day. Rough Draft - 54

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

So there would be times -- you physically saw

her taking the air mattress with her when she left with her daughter? A Q A No, not really. Did you ever see your daughter case -Because I wasn't there when she would leave to

take Caylee. Q So all this with whether she had the air

mattress or not, again, that's coming from Casey; is that correct? A From my understanding, I believe, I saw the Page 45

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt air mattress in Casey's car quite a bit. Q A Okay. But it wasn't in Casey's car when we got the

car on July 15. Q I understand that and we're going to get to

that but I want to focus back on this time period where she's staying over at Zanny's house, you're saying that when she would work late, she would take the air mattress with her; is that right? A No. What I'm saying is if she thought there

was a possibility -- if Zanny would watch her in the evenings, she may have the air mattress with her. If she

watched her during the day, she may not have the air

25 mattress with her. Rough Draft - 55

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Q A

This was, again, from March to May of 2008? No. Actually, I stated before it was probably

from January. Q January to May 2008, because I think, maybe

I'm wrong, we've already established as of now know that she did not have a job and so she would not have been working late between January and May of 2008? A Q That's my understanding. All right. Now, how do you reconcile your

understanding that she didn't have a job so she wouldn't be working late and then she would be crashing at Zanny's as you said -- ma'am, if I may -- crashing at Zanny's as you told the investigators, how do you reconcile in your mind those two things? A Q You mean now? Yes, ma'am. Page 46

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 56

A Q A

I don't.

CAnthony-rough.txt I don't reconcile with it.

And one -Reconciling with it means that you've come to I haven't come to terms with it.

terms with it. Q

Well, let me use a different word as opposed There are two different things because if

to reconcile.

she doesn't have a job, she's not working late, correct? A Q (Witness shrugs.) Is that right?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

I don't know.

I have -- you know, I don't I don't know. I mean, you're

know if she worked or not. asking me. I don't know.

No one has found pay stubs. I don't know.

No one has found anything. Q

And you, obviously, have been extremely

involved in this case, more than anybody as far as a lot of the facts and what happened because you were looking for her. A Q A Do you have any information -Because this is my granddaughter. I understand, ma'am. Yes, I'm extremely involved in this case.

This is tearing me up every single day because I don't have my granddaughter. Q Let me direct you so we can go ahead and talk

about what -A Can we actually get to the reason we're here

today is to clear Mr. Morgan's client's name, that she's not Zanny. Q A Q We're getting there in just a moment. Okay, please. Let me go back here because I want to focus. Page 47 Okay?

22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt There are two different opposite things.

One is that

she's working and she's staying out and she has to crash over at Zanny see as you told the police officers. And

25 the other thing is that she wasn't working. Rough Draft - 57

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 time.

I don't know if she was staying out.

You're

speculating and I'm not going to speculate.

She could

have just been staying with a friend and her and Caylee and the friend could have had just a nice night. no idea and I'm not going to speculate on where my daughter was. I'm not going to speculate. And you I have

shouldn't either. Q

You don't have a crystal ball.

I thought you told the police officers, again,

we just looked at the clip, that she would have been crashing at Zanny's so that would have been your understanding based -A That's on -- that's my understand at that And searches then I found out that Casey wasn't

working and I found out a lot of stuff since then. Q A All right. But unfortunately, you know, you're asking me I don't know where Casey was at,

something I don't know.

and I don't know the circumstances. Q Is it fair to say, then, if you don't know

where Casey was at, it's very possible that your granddaughter was never with Zanny? A I can't speculate. She could very well have

been with Zanny. Q But you really don't have any information and

25 you also know now that she wasn't working during this Rough Draft - 58 Page 48

CAnthony-rough.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 59 Q A time period that she said she was? A Do you know what? MR. CONWAY: Are you cross examining her.

Can you answer her? I'm not on trial here. MR. CONWAY: MR. DILL: Bottom line is --

If you ask a question. Hold on. If you have an objection,

the rules of civil procedure are objection to the form. If there is some sort of privilege that I'm

impinging on between attorney-client, then you can get involved in this but I don't want to have you interrupting and coaching this witness because I'm doing an examination. MR. CONWAY: MR. DILL: I'm not coaching, Mr. Dill. If you have an objection, go ahead

and make the objection but I'm entitled to do my examination. I intend to go forward with my

examination and that's what we're going to do. MR. CONWAY: examining. My objection is you're cross

Ask a question and let her answer it.

That's what she's trying to do for you, listen, bottom line is I shouldn't be answering any questions that is not relevant to Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez that is a civil lawsuit against Casey Marie Anthony. And I am graciously answering

1 2 3 4 5

these ridiculous questions that have nothing to do with Mr. Morgan's client that is the Zenaida Gonzalez. BY MR. DILL: Q I understand you want -- if I may, Ms. Page 49 Okay.

CAnthony-rough.txt 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Anthony, I appreciate it and I have a job to do here and I understand that you want to short circuit the process. A I'm not trying to short circuit anything. MR. CONWAY: characterization. A You're accusing of me -- I'm giving Mr. Morgan He wants a friggin TV show. We're This is why I object to that back

what he wants. getting it.

You know, this is all he wants.

we're here today. Q Ma'am, if you can answer my questions -- if

you can answer my questions, if you do the best to answer them. A I think I've tried up to this point to answer

your questions. Q I don't want to argue with you and I don't

want to argue with you. MR. CONWAY: Let's take the next question. So between -- during this

Let's go forward.

time period up to May when shy said she was crashing at

25 Zanny's, you've come to learn now that it wouldn't be Rough Draft - 60

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

because she was working late because she did not have a job; is that right? A Q That's what I'm understanding. Okay. So but your daughter told you she was

working late and working, right? A Q Yes. And is it fair to say then that your daughter

was not being truthful with you? A Q That's correct. And that wouldn't have been the only time she Page 50

CAnthony-rough.txt 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 was untruthful with you; is that right? A Q Kids are untruthful all the time. This -- her being untruthful about this,

though, is particularly important because it has to do with your granddaughter, though. She was untruthful with

you about the location of your granddaughter certainly from this time period when she said when she was working late she was crashing at Zanny's; is that correct? A I don't know that because she could have been You're having me speculate that You're telling me that I know

crashing at Zanny's.

Casey was not at Zanny's.

for a fact that there is no Zanny. Q Okay. Let's go forward here. I want to ask

you another question on that point. (Played from a videotaped) >.

25 Rough Draft - 61

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Any came Caylee's main primary baby-sitter from what Casey said probably from October -- probably around right after Caylee's first birthday until present time, you know what I'm saying? So this person wasn't

made up just a month ago or whatever, but when I'm thinking I think that Zanny at this point was a real person in the beginning, but I think Zanny is now whoever is watching Caylee. responsibility? The name, yes. So I think she refers to -- I In my mind man man transferred the

believe -- man man do you think we're spinning our wheels looking for a Zanny. I'm not sure, but my -- I have two theories and I'll share that with you. I think Zanny could either

be Amy or Jesse at this point. Page 51

CAnthony-rough.txt 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BY MR. DILL: Q All right. So, again, we're talking here, and

this is today and this interview with the police was taken some time ago, obviously, I think it was in August of last year? A Q I think it was like August 1st. We've been talking about Zanny and her

watching the child and you just told me that you don't know that she wasn't over at Zanny's, yet you told the

25 police that you're not even sure if Zanny was a person -Rough Draft - 62

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

a real person moving forward from the beginning? A Again -MR. CONWAY: Object to the form of the

question because that's not what she said. Q Let me go back. I'll rephrase it. Okay?

You've told me for the last I guess hour and a half we're talking about Zanny -- we're talking about Zanny, but you've told police that it was in your mind there's a thought that Zanny while she may have been a real person at one point in time had evolved into anybody that was watching Caylee? A Q That was my feeling on August 1st. Now, here we are, whatever today is, April

9th, you're saying what you told the police officers on August 1st was not accurate? A No, I'm not saying that. And on August 1st I

believe that Zanny could have been -- because Casey at one point told me that one of the pictures that Caylee was taken at was Zanny's apartment when it was Ricardo Morales' apartment. Page 52

CAnthony-rough.txt 21 22 23 24 Q I understand the one with the drums. But

let's go back to this. A There are several. There are several. There

is one with Caylee with her blanket.

There are several

25 pictures of Caylee -Rough Draft - 63

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Let me do this because we've got to change

tape and we'll take a second. When you say in this clip and you're talking to investigators you that think Zanny may have been a real person at first but then later it was somebody who was watching -- ma'am, if I may -- whoever was watching her, that is what you said back there in August and again -A Q A That's why said could be a possibility. -- you were telling the police officers? Yes. At that point we were looking at all

possibilities, sir. MR. DILL: Let's go ahead and switch tapes. Time is 2:24. We'll go off

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: the record.

(A 5 minute recess was had.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: back on record. BY MR. DILL: Q You were saying some things before concerning And, again, you've said volunteered a Time is 2:29 p.m. We're

Zenaida Gonzalez.

few times that you don't believe that this person, Zenaida Gonzalez, was the one who was watching at any time Caylee? A Absolutely not. Page 53

CAnthony-rough.txt Rough Draft - 64

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

And as you sit here today, you don't have any

information that she had anything to do with watching Caylee or the disappearance or anything else; is that correct? A Correct. I mean, on the same assumption that,

you know, Casey gave me information regarding Zenaida Gonzalez. She told me her name was Zenaida She told me she was 25 years old. It's in the

Fernandez-Gonzalez.

She also told the sheriff's department.

discovery, page 29, her description of Zenaida Gonzalez. That was her handwritten statement taken on July 16th at 10500 a.m. Q Let me focus in on that and this is an That description you're talking about,

important point.

you know that your daughter gave information to the police; is that right? A Yes, I was there when she wrote the statement. I was there when

I was there when she told Jerry Melich. she told the other detectives. Q

It's also your understanding that squint to

when she was incarcerated, when she first was put in jail, that she actually had been interviewed by the police about this person, about this Zenaida Gonzalez; is that right? A Yes. My understanding is also what I've read

25 Rough Draft - 65

1 2 3

and I've seen on the discovery page 4 of the narrative from John Allen that he pulled your Zenaida out of the David file. He went down and spoke to her, and then he Page 54

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt showed Casey a picture of her, and Casey did not recognize her. John Allen also told me that there was

only two Zenaida Gonzalezs in Orlando. Q Let me go to that first point because that

obviously is an point important because you understand that there was a photo line up and that your daughter identified -- if I may -- your daughter identified her -didn't identify her. Said I've never have seen her.

That's your understanding; is that right and that's what police told you? A That's what they told me and that's what I

read in the discovery, the narrative. MR. CONWAY: Can we stop it for a minute.

You're making it awfully hard on the court reporter. You're stepping on her. Could we go to a question

and let her answer it for you. Q I appreicate that on this point that we're

talking about, though, you have an understanding that there was -- your daughter had been shown the photograph. I'm focusing on that now. You visited with your daughter Do you remember that?

in jail right around July 25th. A That's correct.

25 Rough Draft - 66

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 play.

Let's take a look at that visitation.

Video

Did anybody ask you to describe her and they did a Not once and when they went

composite drawing of her.

and interviewed that girl down in Kissimmee they never showed me a picture of her. They never search -- they

told us that you couldn't pull her out of a line up. They're full of shit. find a sketch artist. I had told them multiple times Show me pictures, show me Page 55

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

something. A Q

CAnthony-rough.txt I could point her out to you. That's correct. So -- just so I'm understanding that you were

asking her about whether they ever showed her a photo and she's saying no. A Didn't you just tell me -What I'm telling you is based

That's correct.

on what John Allen told me and what I read in discovery is my understanding of what happened that they showed her a picture. Q So based on what -- based on what John Allen,

you read, it was your understanding -A Q do you? A Q No, I don't believe think John Allen's lying. If John Allen's being truthful then, in fact, That's what John Allen personally told me. You don't believe John Allen's lying to you,

25 he showed your daughter a picture of this Zenaida Rough Draft - 67

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

Gonzalez and she said she didn't recognize her; is that right, based on your understanding? A Q That's my understanding. But we just saw your daughter say that they

never showed her anything and that girl that they interviewed down in Kissimmee, this girl here that was interviewed down in Kissimmee, they never showed her picture of that? A Q A That's what she states, yes. Do you believe that to be true or not? I have no idea. I was not in the vehicle when

Casey when John Allen showed her. Q You just told me a moment ago you that believe Page 56

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt John Allen when he said that he showed a picture of Zenaida Gonzalez -A You asked me if John Allen would have a reason

to lie and I said, no, I don't think John Allen would have a reason to lie. Q So assume for he hypothetically John Allen's

being truthful and the questions you were asking her were in fact truthful that you had been told or it was your understanding there had been a photo line up. Well, your

daughter's saying something quite different there, isn't she's? A Yes.

25 Rough Draft - 68

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 that.

And what she's saying based on your knowledge

what happened in the investigation, what she's saying is, again, inaccurate? A Well, again, you know what? I wasn't in the car with Casey. I don't know She could be I have no

telling the truth. idea. Q

John Allen could be lying.

I don't know why he would. At that point in time, then, who did you think

was telling the truth, John Allen or your daughter? A At that point in time, I really didn't know

what to believe because at that point in time I wasn't trusting the sheriff's department. Q But you had an understanding, though, because

you talked about it, that this person down in Kissimmee had in fact been interviewed? A Q Correct. Okay. As you sit here this person down in You knew that, right?

Kissimmee we're talking about you know that we're talking Page 57

19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt about Zenaida Gonzalez that is sitting here; is that right? A channel 6. Q I didn't ask why. I just need to know. When I only know that because she interviewed with

your see talking about -A You asked me a question.

25 Rough Draft - 69

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

MR. CONWAY:

Let her answer a question.

If

you ask her too broad of a question, she's going to give the answer -A Ask me a yes or no question and I'll answer

yes or no, but if you ask me an open ended question I'm going to answer the question. Q Fair enough. Let's go back to this statement

by your daughter.

At that point in time when your

daughter said -- you didn't know fit was true or you didn't know it was false, right, correct. Q And you -- when you went in there you were

going on information from John Al rent that you think to be -- thought to be true at the time? A At the time John Allen told me that. At the

time I did not read the discovery. Q discovery? A Q A Yes. And you believe the discovery to be true? Actually, I don't believe half of the As we sit here now, though, you've read the

discovery because -- I don't -Q A I understand? Because there is a lot of typographical errors Page 58

24

in the discovery.

CAnthony-rough.txt In fact, if you look at page 145 and

25 49, there is typographical errors on the card that she Rough Draft - 70

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

filled out at Sawgrass Apartments. Q I'm sure there is and we're going to get to

that from a moment, ma'am. A It's not a because somebody added a name to

her Z after it was picked up from the sheriff's department. Q I'm not talking about typographicallers. I

didn't say anything about hype? A Gonzale and Gonzalez is two different names,

so -- you're asking me a question if I believe everything that I read in the discovery, I'm answering that question because I'm telling you exactly why I don't believe it. Q I'm sorry. I didn't ask the question and if I

did ask it that way -A Q Yeah, did you. If I asked it this way, I apologize. The

statement made by the police officer John Allen that he in fact showed her a picture of Zenaida Gonzalez and she said she didn't know who it was, you believe that statement to be true? A Q He told me he pulled up on the David. I don't know what a David it. I don't know if

it's a computer or a picture? MR. MORGAN: A It's a yes or no question. You're questioning/j me E

25 Rough Draft - 71

A picture is this.

1 2

a question yes or no, clarify for me. know. Page 59

A picture I don't

CAnthony-rough.txt 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 72 Q A Q Sure, I'll declare fight it? I don't know. You at this point in time as we sit here I'm trying to ask

today -- ma'am, if I may, please. these questions. Q A Q

Don't be condescending.

I'm trying not to do that? Yeah, you are. As you sit here today, you've read the

discovery and you read the part of the discovery and this is what I'm focusing on is whether that he, John Allen, or somebody from the police department showed your daughter a picture of this Zenaida Gonzalez. understand that. understanding? A He told me -- yes. He said that he showed Is that yes or no? You

Do you have that

something with her picture on it. Q And you believe that statement that he told

you, you believe that to be true? A Q At the time I believed it to be true. Okay. At the time when he told you that you

believed it to be true? A Q Correct. Was that before you spoke to her?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

A Q

Yes. So you knew something that you believed to be

true at that point in time was that this police officer had shown her photograph of our client, Mr. Morgan's client, and that she had exonerated said, no, that's not the right person? A Correct. Page 60

CAnthony-rough.txt 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q A Q That was in your mind that that was true? That's correct. When you asked your daughter these questions,

it was also in your mind that that was true; is that correct? A Q Correct. So when your daughter tells you she was never

shown a photo line up on this exact point, do you believe your daughter at that point or do you believe Mr -detective Allen? A At that point I can't remember what I believe.

At this point, I still don't know what I believe. Q Well, what is the truth and what isn't true,

then, as far as that statement, that's all I'm talking about, this statement here that your daughter was shown a photograph of Zenaida Gonzalez, my client, what do you believe to be true? A Do you think that happened or not?

25 Rough Draft - 73

My belief has nothing to do with it because I

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

wasn't there. Q I understand you weren't there. Do you

believe that happened or not? A I have no idea. I really don't know what I

believe and that's the honest to God's truth. Q During this time period here in July, though,

when you were speaking with your daughter, she was -- you were asking her to relay messages to you so you could relay messages through the media because you were talking to the media at this pointed; is that right? A Yes. I was talking to the media quite a bit

to get Caylee's picture out there. Page 61

CAnthony-rough.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q I understand that, and obviously, we saw one

picture already from Gretta Vansustren and there were other news organizations too, but it's fair to say like we had today there were cameras around you; is that right. A Q A On which particular day. Any time. If you wanted to talk to media --

I couldn't sneeze without a camera being

around me, sir. Q That's what I'm getting at. So when you were

talking to Caylee in jail there earlier in the day I think you asked her if she had any messages for Zanny.

25 Do you remember that, and -Rough Draft - 74

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

I remember at some point.

Whether or not that

was that particular one, I don't know. Q So it's fair to say that she was giving you

the authority to speak for her bypassing along messages and stuff? A Q Correct. So when you were talking to the media, you

were talking on your daughter's behalf for the idea to try to find Caylee? A Q A Q Correct. You're speaking for her? Correct. So you're saying that on this particular day, You Did

that statement you don't know if it was true or not. don't know what to believe. Let's go forward here.

you also talk to the media on the 28th? *(Played from video) Are they lying to us when Page 62

CAnthony-rough.txt 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 75 they told us there's only one in Central Florida and she's in Kissimmee and because, you know, my daughter said that she didn't recognize her. they never showed her picture. That's what they told me. look at any lineups. A Q That's true. I don't have a question pending so we'll go She said she didn't My daughter said

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

ahead and focus it.

You've gone and you've had this She's now empowered you

conversation from your daughter.

to go ahead and basically broadcast or publish what her thoughts are, her statements. A Q (Nods head.) And as we see here you've gone and you've Brad

cast her statement about this particular Zenaida Gonzalez really to the world; is that right? A Q I broadcast her? No, no, the statement, I just heard it, about

that -- whether she was shown a photo line up, that type of thing, that was now published to anybody who wants to watch; is that right? A Q Okay. And obviously this case as we all the know has

a great deal of public interest, right? A Q A Q (Witness shrugs). Is that -Of course. So the statement that the police officers have

made that your daughter has denied that this Zenaida Gonzalez is the actual Zenaida Gonzalez, that now has Page 63

CAnthony-rough.txt 23 24 been undone by this statement you've made because your daughter has told you and you've broadcast to the world

25 that she never was shown a photograph? Rough Draft - 76

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 77 here?

No, it's not undone because Casey's Her

handwritten statement does not describe her. birthday is not September 1 the. She's not five foot seven. doesn't have black hair. She's not a ten. you're not a ten. Q

She not 25 years old. She

She's not 140 pounds.

She doesn't have perfect teeth. You're cute but

I'm sorry, ma'am.

Did you say all those things to the press

A Q

I didn't need to. Did you say it when the cam was was there?

Did you say anything about how you just described Ms. Gonzalez for me on -A Not on that day. Ask me a question if I ever

talked to the press about that young lady. Q at a time? A Then I'll answer it. MR. MORGAN: follow up. Right now the question and then I'm going's oh we're going to go one question

Brad has the right -- later Ms. Anthony

to ask his own questions for you to clarify. THE WITNESS: He just asked me if I ever

talked to the media about it, yeah, I did. MR. MORGAN: Hold on. We're entitled to ask

our questions and I know there's questions you may

Page 64

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 78

CAnthony-rough.txt want us to ask and then later Brad will have that opportunity for you to be -- for you to clarify. BY MR. DILL: Q So on this date when this statement was

made -- I'm talking about this statement here, if I may. The statement to the media that your daughter has authorized you to make, again, that is something that you're talking about the photo lineup and whether a photograph has been shown to the police about my client. That's what you were talking about on this date, correct? A Q A I believe so. All right. But that's only part of the interview. You

never see the whole interview on TV, so I can't tell you if I didn't say more on that day. MR. CONWAY: She's entitled to answer. You're

asking me a question. MR. MORGAN: Listen, Brad. Your -- she's

entitled to answer and then you're entitled later to come back as you well know and ask her your own set of questions to clarify. MR. CONWAY: All I'm asking is that she fully That's I'm asking.

answer the question. MR. MORGAN: anything you want.

She will because you'll ask

1 2 3 4 5

THE WITNESS:

He's shaking is head when I'm That's exactly what the They

answering a question.

sheriffi's department did to my daughter. never let her speak. thing to me. Page 65

You guys are doing the same

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 79 may.

CAnthony-rough.txt When you said that to the media and when I say

that to the media, I'm focusing now just about this statement that you said in front of the cameras on July 28th referring to what your daughter had told you in the jail. When you said that to the media, when you were out

there, you had questions in your mind as to whether the statement you were making was truthful or not; is that fair to say? A I don't get what you're asking. You're asking

me if I thought that sheriff's office statement was not true or Casey's statement was not true? Q Either or both. You had questions in -- if I

I'll rephrase it since you don't understand. You had a question in your mind when you said

that about your daughter told you and your daughter wasn't shown a photograph, you had a question in your mind as to whether your daughter was telling you the truth or not; is that right? A No, I didn't have a question. MR. CONWAY: Yes or no.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

A Q

No. No question in your mind. You believe when

they said to you they didn't show me a photo line up, you believe that to be the truth? A I didn't have a question whether or not she

was telling me the truth. Q A question. Q What did you have a question about? I didn't. You're asking me if I had a

I didn't have a question about any of it. So now about she said to you and you told me Page 66

11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt before you didn't know what truth was.

When she said to

you they didn't show me a photo, you believe that to be true and the police to be inaccurate; is that what you're saying? A No. What I'm saying is the sheriff's office At the time when they told me, I

told me certain things. believed them. believe. Q

As time goes on, I'm not sure what I

Same thing with Casey. So when you talked to the media on this date, Thinks the only clip I'm talking about

just this clip.

now, you weren't resolved in your mind as to what the truth was and what was not the truth about this statement about the photo lineup of Zenaida Gonzalez; is that fair to say? MR. CONWAY: Yes or no.

25 Rough Draft - 80

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Whether or not Casey was shown a picture, I'm

not sure if Casey was shown a picture at that date. Q And whether -- how about whether Casey was Were you sure or not

being truthful with you or not? sure or you don't know? A I don't know.

She had no reason to lie at

that point about her. Q Casey your daughter had no listen to lie at

that pointed? A She had no reason to lie about the picture It would have made no --

that they would have shown her.

it would have made no sense for her to say it's not her or she didn't see the picture -- why would she lie about that. Q Your daughter -- is it fair to say your Page 67

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt daughter's lied to you about many things? A It's fair to say that the sheriff's department

lied to me about many things. Q We'll get to the sheriff department lying to

you in a minute but I want to ask you about your daughter. Is it fair prior to this time you that made

this statement to the media that your daughter has lied to you about many things? A Q Correct. And so when you're saying you don't know if

25 Rough Draft - 81

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

she had a reason to lie or not, other than the fact that there was some suspicion of your daughter's involvement in her daughter's disappearance, do you think that she was more truthful because she told you or do you think she's more -- let me reask it. I apologize.

At this point in time, you're saying you're not sure if your daughter's telling the truth or not about the picture or do you know? A I believe Casey may not have been shown a

picture of this particular Zenaida. Q that now? A Q A I believe that now. Okay. That there's a possibility that she may not And you say you believe that. You believe

have been shown that picture. Q All right. Now, if the flip -- now we've

heard through -- you were saying it before about the description and the police showing her. Are you saying

that the police are being untruthful about that they Page 68

21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt showed your daughter a picture of my client? A What I'm saying is that the sheriff's

department has stated many things that have been not truthful. Q Okay. But I want to go specifically to this

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

issue because it's an important issue, ma'am, obviously. Do you believe the sheriff's department was lying to you and not only lying to you lying in official documents about whether they showed your daughter a photograph of my client Zenaida Gonzalez? A Well, the reason I believe it's a possibility

that they were telling me not the truth about it is because they also told me in the same breath that there was only two Zenaidas that they were able to pull up, and I was able to pull up on the same day eleven myself. that's when the doubt came to my mind before I went to see my daughter there. So, yes. Q A Q So but as -The doubt is there. But as we sit here today, we're not talking So

about whether there's a doubt or not, do you believe that the police department, the sheriff's office that was charged with finding your granddaughter, do you believe that they misled the public and misled you and misled everybody else about that they showed Casey a photograph of my client. A could have. Q And that's based upon the fact about the Page 69 Is that what you believe? There's a possibility that they

I don't know.

25 Rough Draft - 83

CAnthony-rough.txt

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Zenaida Gonzalezs you're talking about? A It's because of the fact that they told me on

the same breath that he told me he showed her a picture that there was only two, and that's why he singled her out. Q A her. It was John Allen that picked her, not Casey. The John Allen picked her and not Casey? John Allen told me he's the one that went to Casey never told him to go to Kissimmee. Casey

never said the person lived in Kissimmee. went to Kissimmee. Read his report.

John Allen

He said she went to

Kissimmee and interviewed her. the discovery's wrong. Q

Read the discovery unless

I guess that's where we're getting at.

Besides the fact about the number of Zenaida Gonzalezs that you just said to me, I just want to make sure are you saying here now today under oath that it's your belief that the police are lying? A Q No. That the police are lying about that statement

in the discovery? A lying. Q Where did you pull up the Zenaida -- the What computer would that No. I'm not saying that I believe they're

multiple Zenaida Gonzalezs?

25 have been? Rough Draft - 84

1 2 3 4

A Q

What do you mean what computer? Said you pulled it up. I assume you pulled it

up on a computer? A You're asking me what computer or what site I Page 70

CAnthony-rough.txt 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 pulled it up on? Q A Both. No, you didn't. Now you're asking both. But now because I

That's what I was trying to clarify. went there -Q A I appreciate that.

But see your questions aren't specific and

that's why -Q specific. A Q Okay, please. You said you pulled up and to me that means That's my fault. I'll make them more

pulled up means ran a search on the Internet. A Q A Q A Q Correct. Was that on a computer? Yes. What computer was that? It was my desktop. The desktop that the -- the Hewlitt Packard

desktop from your house? A Yes.

25 Rough Draft - 85

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Q A

St one that's been seized? Actually, it was after because they only took They took it July 17 and I got it back

it for four days. on July 27th. Q

So the searches you're talking about when you

got it back, are you saying that they wouldn't be there because you ran the search on July 27th? A It was actually August the 16th when I ran I

some searches on her because I have some print outs. Page 71

CAnthony-rough.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 86 probably ran it before then but I have print outs that are printed out with the date -Q This statement here was made on July 28th that So at that point in time, you didn't

you made, right?

have any information about -A What I just said, if you listen to my

statement, I said I have some that I printed out on July -- I mean, on August the 6th, but I know I ran some searches prior to that. Q A Okay. When you say you ran searches --

But my computer was back in my home on July 22

acknowledged and you're saying I made that statement on July the 28th. So, yes, I could have ran searches after

they had my computer, and that's where you're getting at. Q A Okay. I'm going to to -Isn't that what you're getting at?

Correct?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

You wanted to see the time frame? Q My question was a little bit more specific and You're talking about a search that you Are you saying

simple than that.

ran about the multiple Zenaida Gonzalezs.

here -- again, we're under oath -- are you saying here that prior to the time you made this statement to the media, you made multiple searches for Zenaida Gonzalezs? A Q Correct. So that's what you're saying. That is your

recollection? A I started -- I started on the 16th of July

looking up Zenaida Gonzalez on Myspace and searches. Q up? Page 72 Okay. And there was 21 something that came

CAnthony-rough.txt 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q There was eleven just in Orange County. Well, the searches that you ran, then, would

have been on July 16th as you said, those would have been showing up on the history for the desktop, right? A Q Possibly. And we could get the sites there from that.

Do you recall what the sites were? A Q A No. No recollection? Probably Myspace. I think I went on Myspace

25 first. Rough Draft - 87

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

When you're searching on Myspace, that's not a You're searching Myspace? It's a search engine.

search 17 gin. A Q A

I'm searching Myspace.

Well, maybe I'm confusing -And then I did a people search later on and a I've

did a My Orange Clerk -- My Orange County Clerk. done several. Q A July 17th. Q And let me ask this. All that's later on after the fact?

Yeah, because I different have a computer on

Going back -- we're Going

going to move forward from this statement here.

back, then, as you sit here today, and this isn't what you were thinking then, this is what you're thinking now, are you saying that you think the police are being untruthful about whether they showed your daughter a photo of my client? A What I'd -MR. CONWAY: The question has been asked and Page 73

CAnthony-rough.txt 20 21 22 23 24 A answered about four different times. Q I just want to know today. MR. CONWAY: She said she doesn't know.

I stated I'm not sure if they did or not. I am not sure. Okay.

That's even today. Q

25 Rough Draft - 88

You're not sure.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 you?

You were telling me before about addresses,

that Casey had given you about the addresses about Zanny. I'm sorry. The computer search, the computer search that you did that you pulled off the computer about all the 21 odd or different people. A Q I never said 21. You've said 21.

Whatever number it was that you said to me

before that cast doubt as to whether the police were being honest with you, whatever number of searches and all the searches and the print ups and things you talked about, did you give those to Dominic Casey, the investigator? A Q A Q No, I did not. Why not? Because he wasn't working for me at that time. Was there ever a time that he was working for

A Q A Q

Not early on. Was there ever a time he was working for you? Yes. He still is.

And when -- during the time he was working

with you before the December time frame, during that time period when your granddaughter's missing, did you ever Page 74

CAnthony-rough.txt 25 give those addresses to Dominic Casey, the Zenaida Rough Draft - 89

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Gonzalez information? A Q A them. Q And is it your understanding that Jos Baez -No, I didn't. Why not? Because I gave them to Jos Baez when I had

do you know what he did with them? A I have no idea. And I know Dominic was

working for him when I gave them to him. Q I'm going to go through some of the time line

a little bit about -- around the June period, so we're going to focus on that right now. It's my understanding

that around the first week of June of last year, you took a vacation. A Q You had Caylee most of that week? That's correct. Was there -- there's some talk in some of the

interviews about -- when I say interviews, I mean police interviews -- that Casey had been telling Amy Huizenga that you and Mr. Anthony were splitting up and moving out, moving to Mt. Dora, moving out of the house, and that Casey would be moving into the house with a me. A Q I do not know what Casey told Amy Huizenga. Well, is there any truth to that, though, that

you and George were going to be moving up to Mt. Dora or Is there any

25 leaving the house somehow to Casey? Rough Draft - 90

1 2

accuracy or truth to that? A No. Page 75

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt So there came a point in time, though, later

on where you did talk to Amy later on? A the 15th. Q Okay. July 15th, and that's the day you The only time I ever talked to Amy was July

actually found your daughter over at was it Tony Lazzaro's apartment? A Q That's correct. Amy took me there.

Now, during this -- I'm going to focus you in.

During the time after your birthday -- your birthday was June 5th? A Q Correct. During that time period, was Casey saying --

during that time period there, what the source of her income was there? at that point? A We didn't talk about her source of income Did she ever mention it specifically

during that time frame. Q And did you ever come to know that both Casey

and Casey were in fact staying over at Ricardo Morales' house? A Casey and Caylee did not stay at Ricardo

25 Morales' house on June 5th. Rough Draft - 91

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Q A

I'm not talking about June 1st. Then what are you asking? You just asked me

about that time frame, so go back. Q No problem. Let's say June 7th, around there, Did you ever learn that Casey

around that time period.

and Caylee were in fact staying over at Ricardo's house? A I learned it, yes. Page 76

8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Q A Q

CAnthony-rough.txt And you learned that later? After the fact, yes. That was something that was inconsistent, from

what your daughter was telling you she was doing with her daughter; is that right? A Q A On June 7th, I wasn't home. Well -If that was -- she didn't tell me where she I had no idea.

was at because I wasn't home. Q Did she ever tell you, mom, Caylee and I

stayed over at Ricardo's house? A Q No. And it's fair to say that would have been

probably something you would have disapproved of because Caylee really should have been home in her own bed? A Q I would have to know the circumstances. Can you think of a circumstance around the

25 June time period where it would have been something you Rough Draft - 92

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

approved of having Caylee and Casey sleep over at Ricardo's house without you knowing about it? A Q I don't know what the circumstance would be. So if, in fact, Caylee and Casey were staying

at Ricardo's house on June 7th -A It's not my decision where Casey stays. She's

an adult and Caylee's her daughter.

It's not up to me to

stay where Caylee stays to clarify that question. Q And June 7th, that would be something you'd

want to know about, though? A Q No. It's none of my business.

But did you ever hear from Casey or Caylee Page 77

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt during that time period that they had stayed over at Ricardo's house? A No. I -- on the 7th of June I was staying at

my mom's house that night because my dad was very ill. Q A Q And your dad up in the nursing home? Yes. And that's in Lake County is my understanding;

is that right? A Q It's not relevant to this. Well, it's in all the documents that it's up I just want to

in late county so I just -- hold on. understand -A

25 Rough Draft - 93

My dad is irrelevant to this.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

I'm not asking about your dad's condition or

anything else. A No. Do you know what? My parents don't need

people going up there with cameras so my point is leave them out of it. I'm not going to answer any questions

about my father or my mother. Q Well, your mother did in fact speak with

investigators, did she not? A Q A To my knowledge -Right. -- you know, only that I've heard or seen,

yes, but I wasn't there. Q A Q A Q I understand that. Okay? You heard it -I wasn't physically there. You've read -Page 78

18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt I haven't seen video things and I haven't seen I haven't read all the discovery. It's

the depositions.

very hard for me -Q A I understand, ma'am. -- to read such. I just -- we just had

Caylee's memorial two months ago. Q Let me cut through this because I'm not asking

25 about all that. Rough Draft - 94

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

Well, you're asking me if I know for a fact.

All I know is what I hear. Q Okay. You have heard and you have an

understanding that your mom was interviewed -A Q A Yes. -- by the investigator? Several times you also know and have an

understanding that your daughter had taken money from your mother; is that right? A Q A Correct. And when was that and how much was that? I believe there was a 27 dollar or 47

something one time and 200 and some dollars one time. Q And that she actually took money from your

grandmother -- I'm sorry -- from your mother, her grandmother, by writing a bad check. understanding? A Q Correct. And it had something to do with the Publix and Is that your

also Casey's birthday party, second birthday party; is that right? A That was the same one, the Publix was Caylee's Page 79

23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt second birthday party. Q When did you become aware of that affected

25 that your mother had been -- had money taken from her by Rough Draft - 95

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

your daughter? A Q A My mother told me. When did she tell you? Shortly thereafter she found out about it --

same day she found out about it. Q Now, did you ever confront Casey and ask why

would it be that Casey, who you thought had I job, would be stealing money from your mother? A Q A Q A Q A Q Yes, I did. And what did Casey tell you? That's irrelevant to the case. What did Casey tell you? It's irrelevant to this case. Ma'am, I believe it's relevant. No, it isn't relevant. Respectfully it's not for you to decide what's What did Casey tell you It isn't --

relevant and what isn't. about -A

I can't remember the exact words.

It's

irrelevant to this case. MR. CONWAY: Q Just let him ask the question.

Generally -- well -MR. CONWAY: I want to hear the question.

My question is what did Casey say to you about

25 this allegation that she had taken money from your Rough Draft - 96

mother? Page 80

CAnthony-rough.txt 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A That's not the question you asked me. Well, answer the question that I did ask you. Okay. What you just asked me is what did She told me she was sorry. You asked

Casey say to me.

me a question earlier about why she took it, so ask the same question because she wasn't working. Q I don't believe I said that, ma'am, and if I

did a apologize? A You asked me why she would take it if she was

working and you wanted me to figure that out. Q A Q Let me ask you that question now. Wasn't that correct? Is it your understanding or did you ask Casey

why was it -- let me reask it. Did you ask Casey why was it that she had taken money from your mother if in fact she was working? A I can't remember if I asked her that. What I

made her do is talk to my mom and I had her and my mom work it out. It was not between me and Casey. It was

between my mother and Casey. Q Did it cause you some concern, though, knowing

that this had taken place and that Casey may have been hiring a baby-sitter from money that she had coming in Did that cause you any concern in your mind?

25 from a job? Rough Draft - 97

1 2 3 4 5 6 time.

I did not put the two and two together at that

Was that only time she'd stolen something from

your family members? A Casey is only ever taken something from her Page 81

grandmother.

CAnthony-rough.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 98 you? Q How about from you? Did she ever use your

credit cards without your permission? A Q It's not relevant to this case. Not my question. Did she ever take and use

your credit cards without your permission? A It's not relevant to the cases. MR. CONWAY: Can we get -Q Time out. It's an ongoing investigation of It's an ongoing investigation.

Are you being investigated in that? MR. CONWAY: We don't know. We don't know the

answer to that, Mr. Dill. Q I'm going to ask the question then. Okay? The

question is pretty specific.

As far as your

interactions with your daughter, did Casey ever take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission? A Q It's not relevant to this case. That's not -- that isn't really for you to

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

decide? A Q I'm answering the question. I want to make sure and you can discuss this

with your attorney as far as your refusal -- again, ma'am, I'm going to tell what you Mr. Morgan told your attorney earlier that this isn't a situation where, you know, this is treated lightly by the rules. If somebody

refuses to answer a valid question, we might have to come back -A It's not valid to this young lady that's Mr. Morgan went on TV and said that the Page 82

sitting here.

CAnthony-rough.txt 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 reason he's doing this is because he wants his client cleared, so the reason I'm here is to clear his client. It has nothing to do with my daughter's and my relationship. Q A I appreciate that. So let's move on to Ms. Gonzalez so that Mr.

Morgan can go home and I can go home because I'm very tired. Q It's been a long day. I understand you're tired but lit's go back to

my question. A Q advise you. I'm not answering it. I want to make sure maybe your attorney can In Florida we have certain rules about not If there is a privilege that

25 answering questions. Rough Draft - 99

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

applies, in other words, in you're under investigation for something, then it's knock to the answer but here's what's going to happen. We're going to go to the judge

and we're going to explain it to the judge and the judge gets to say we come back and answer this question and this whole thing is going over one more time. don't want that. I know you

I know Mr. Conway doesn't want that and Before you don't want to answer

none of us want that.

the question, maybe you want to confer -A You might want to go to the judge and explain

why Zenaida has Fernandez-Gonzalez on the complaint when Fernandez is not her name. MR. DILL: or not? THE WITNESS: It's the same thing so if you Do you want to advise your client

guys want to per -- do perjury, then go for it. Page 83

CAnthony-rough.txt 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 100 I'll take my chances with the judge. MR. DILL: Mr. Conway, is that your position

too as her attorney that she's not answering this question that I'm asking? MR. CONWAY: We don't know whether there is an

investigation or not so let's move on. MR. MORGAN: MR. CONWAY: MR. MORGAN: Are you taking the Fifth. Let's move on. You have to state.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

MR. DILL: MR. MORGAN: Amendment here? MR. CONWAY: to my client.

I need to know the basis. Are you taking the Fifth

I want to take a break and talk

That's what I want to do. She's over here typing away. I

MR. CONWAY:

can't get an objection in.

You can't get a question

in and my client can't answer the question fully. If we could just let each other -- and you're going fast, John, so if you could just -MR. DILL: MR. CONWAY: That's fair. Slow it down because you're

getting three questions into one and it's impossible. THE WITNESS: question. MR. DILL: Being cognizant of the court And you keep changing the

reporter, I will endeavor to do that. MR. CONWAY: I don't care if you watch 20

questions, if you could just do it one at a time, it makes it easier for me, her and you and we could get Page 84

CAnthony-rough.txt 22 23 24 through this a lot quicker. back on? THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Time is 3:11. We're back You guys ready to go

25 on the record. Rough Draft - 101

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

BY MR. DILL: Q My question was was there a point in time when

your daughter had used your credit cards without your permission? MR. CONWAY: My client's position on that is

that she doesn't want to answer that question right now, that the purpose of this deposition has gone way far afield. That the question giving the

current pending criminal charges prevent her daughter from getting a fair trial, and so she doesn't want to answer that question. MR. DILL: the rules, Brad. I understand, but you understand You're an experienced attorney.

She may not want to answer the question right now but I want to know from a legal standpoint is what basis legally are you asserting for her not to answer the question? MR. CONWAY: That the question is entirely I

relevant; that it will not lead to evidence that would be admissible in any way, shape or form in the civil trial. MR. DILL: Just for your edification because I

don't want to come back here and I will tell you this, the relevance of it is if in fact there's a

25 financial issue concerning her daughter, that tends Rough Draft - 102 Page 85

CAnthony-rough.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to that her daughter was not hiring a baby-sitter or in fact a Nancy and also if your daughter wasn't working and having to steel money from family members and other people, for instance, Amy Huizenga and the other people who were stolen from by Casey, that would also tend to she wasn't hiring or paying for a nanny, Zanny the nanny person. relevance and that's why I'm asking. I'm not asking to impede any criminal case. I'm not interested and we're not interested in depriving of of her right to fair trial but I am interested in getting answers to my trial. As we That's the

say we want to clear this person, Zenaida Gonzalez, in this lawsuit, and that's what I'm here to do. That's what we've been doing this morning. the reason for the question. MR. CONWAY: We're here to help you do that, That is

Mr. Dill, and in terms of payment, she's already established that she doesn't know whether Zanny the nanny was paid or not so -MR. DILL: about the case. I'm not going to argue with you We're trying to get everybody out

of here as you know so I just want to understand. The legal basis you were asserting before we go back

25 in front of judge Rodriguez is that she doesn't want Rough Draft - 103

1 2 3 4

to answer it.

Is there another reason. My client does not want to answer

MR. CONWAY:

that because it's going to affect her daughter's ability to get a fair trial on pending criminal Page 86

CAnthony-rough.txt 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q charges. MR. DILL: Okay. I assume you've advised her

of the implications of that. MR. CONWAY: BY MR. DILL: Q Ma'am, just so I'll clear and I want -- if you These questions I'm asking you We have discussed it.

can just -- I understand.

about your daughter and the credit card, you're refusing to answer those questions? A Q It's not relevant. Are you refusing to answer the questions? Just answer --

MR. CONWAY: Yes.

Now, were there ever any conversations between

you and your daughter Casey, concerning taking money from family members, including yourself or anybody else, around the June time period? A Q A Around June? Yes, ma'am. Be specific on the area around June. Right.

25 Q Rough Draft - 104

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

MR. CONWAY: THE WITNESS: around.

Just yes or no. I want to know what he means by

Are we talking two month? Yes or no and let them clarify

MR. CONWAY: their question. Q A Q

Did you ever have a discussion -Nothing in June, no in June. On June 15 was there ever a discussion between

you and your daughter over stealing 400 dollars from your Page 87

CAnthony-rough.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A A Q A don't know. Q Give me a ballpark. MR. CONWAY: Yes. Was it around the time period leading up to Was it in the year 2008? account? A Q A Q No. Did that ever take place? I'm not even sure we're talking 400 dollars. Was there ever discussion with you and your

daughter about your daughter taking money from your account? MR. CONWAY: Yes. When was that? I don't know. You're asking me dates. I Yes or no.

Yes or no.

25 Q Rough Draft - 105

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

the last time you saw your granddaughter prior to June 15th? A Q What time frame leading up to? Prior to June 15th, in the year 2008, let's

say in the time period -A Q I already answered that question. Let me get more specific. In May was there a

discussion about or an argument or any type of discussion about your daughter taking money from your account and you not being happy about that? A Q Possibly in May. Okay. And so it's fair to say that that was

a -- a sore subject or a point of conflict between you and your daughter right around this time period? Page 88

CAnthony-rough.txt 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A Q A Q No. So it was -- there wasn't conflict over that? No. And -There was no argument. Was it something you gave her permission to do

was to take money from your account? A Q Again, I'm not answering those questions. I just want to be clear. You said there was Was it something

no argument, so you're answering that.

25 you gave her permission to do to take money from your Rough Draft - 106

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

account? A I already stated that -- I already answered

that question. Q A Q I don't think you did, ma'am? Yes, I did. Did you -- let me ask it again. THE WITNESS: Q It's okay. Go back. We don't need to have it reread.

Did you give your daughter permission to take money from your account during this time period? MR. CONWAY: A Q Same --

I already answered that question. We're talking about credit cards before. I'm Did

talking about the account now, something different. you give your daughter permission -A cards. Q A I'll ask that again too in a second. That's the one I said I wasn't going to Page 89 I never answered a question about credit

CAnthony-rough.txt 20 21 22 23 24 answer. Q Gotcha. On credit cards or accounted? Just

so I'm clear. A

I don't want to confuse you --

You're confusing me because you keep changing

your question. Okay. That's my fault.

25 Q Rough Draft - 107

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

It is your fault and you expect me -- I know

I've already answered these questions. Q And if I ask it, I apologize, but let me ask

it a little bit differently. Did your daughter have permission to take money from your account, not talking credit cards, I'm talking an account? A Q I answered the question already. Okay. Tell me the answer. Did she have her

permission or not? A Q of you? A Q No. So did she, you and her have a conversation, No. Was that a point of conflict between the two

and everything was fine about her taking money -A Q A Q Yes. -- from your account? Yes. She had taken money from your accounted,

though, right? A Q A Yes. How much was it? I don't know the exact amount. Page 90

25 Q Rough Draft - 108

CAnthony-rough.txt Was it more than 200?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

A Q

Somewhere around there, two, 300. Two, 300. And it's fair to say from my

understanding of reading through this that that was not probably money that you could afford to give to her at that point? A Q A I gave Casey money all the time. I'm talking about this specific one. I can't tell you if that specific one, you

know, mattered any different than any other sometime. Q Did she ever talk about moving out around this

time period? A Q A Q No. Never discussed that with you? No. Now, before the disappearance, before June

15th, what friends did Casey have at Sawgrass Apartments? A Q That I knew then or that I know now? Either one, ma'am, but let's break it down.

That you knew then, what friends did she have at the Sawgrass Apartments? A Q I had no idea at that time. Currently, what friends that you've learned

that Casey had at the Sawgrass Apartments who were her friends there? I know at some point Annie lived there. I

25 A Rough Draft - 109

1 2 3

know at some point Ricardo, JP lived there and I think -Q A Annie being Annie who? Dowling. Page 91

CAnthony-rough.txt 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 else? A Q A Q where? A Q A Q A From her friends. Being who? From those people. They told you or -They told me. Okay. Do you know if she, your daughter, knew JP's his roommate. Do you know his last name? Chat. And you've learned all this information from Q Because there's another Annie is my I apologize. Amy Dowling lived

understanding or Amy. there. A Q A Q

Would that be Ricardo Moralisa? Morales. Who was her boyfriend at one point in time? Which I know now. Do you know when it was that more her

boyfriend lived at the Sawgrass Apartments? A Q No. Who else was it, Annie and Ricardo and who

25 Q Rough Draft - 110

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

anybody who work at Sawgrass? A Q A Q No. You don't know? I don't know. So these people, Ricardo Morales and Andy

Dowling, you've come to learn that there was a time that in fact they lived at Sawgrass? A Correct. Page 92

CAnthony-rough.txt 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q And they lived there prior to the

disappearance is your understanding? A Q Correct. No, let's go ahead to the June 15th. It's my

understanding -- thinks Father's Day weekend; is that right? A Q Yes. You had gone to -- you had gone up to visit

your father? A Q Correct. All right. And in fact there's a photograph

and that's we know was June 15 because it was Father's Day weekend; is that right? A Q wasn't he? Yes. Correct. Your husband was working at that time period,

25 A Rough Draft - 111

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 home.

And on June 15th, when you got home, was your

husband at home that night when you got home? A When I got home in the evening, no one was

Did there come a point -- and where had Casey

been during the day? A she was at. my dad. Q I see. There came a point in time, though, I don't know if she was with friends or where I just had taken Caylee for the day to see

that Casey came home and you were at home and Casey's at home and Caylee's at home? A Correct. Page 93

CAnthony-rough.txt 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Was there ever any type of -- strike that what

time was it you that got home? A I want to say somewhere around 4:00 whatever

because -- just because I remember I fed Caylee dinner when I got home and then we went swimming. Q A came home. Q A Did Casey get in the pool? She started to and realized -- I told her it Swimming and obviously -In the pool. We were in the pool when Casey

would be too told for her because the sun was starting to We were getting a little bit chilled and I told

25 go down. Rough Draft - 112

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

her I was about ready to take Caylee out. Q Was there any type of disagreement or

discussion between you and your daughter Casey that night? A Q Absolutely not, no. So statements about somebody overhearing a

loud argument at the house -- if I may, the statements in the police reports about people overhearing a loud argument at the house, you're saying that there was no loud argument at the house? A Q Correct. There was no -- we've seen in some reports no

altercation between you two? A Q Correct. Do you know why it would be, then, that the

next morning Casey would have left with her daughter and not returned? A I have no idea why Casey and Caylee did not Page 94

CAnthony-rough.txt 19 20 21 22 23 24 come back. I mean, I know why Casey didn't come back

now, but I don't know why Caylee didn't come back. Q And during -- I'm just going to go through

this quickly. During the time period when they leave on June 15th, this would be something out of the ordinary -They left on June 16th.

25 A Rough Draft - 113

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

I'm sorry, morning of June 16 and actually

George was the one that fed Caylee breakfast that morning, if you know. A I don't know. I have no idea who fed Caylee I was at work.

breakfast that morning. Q A Q

You had already gone to work? Yes. But we do know that none of the clothes that

were Casey's or rather Caylee's clothes, none of those clothes to your knowledge were taken for a five, ten, 15 day trip? A Q No. And once again, we know that the air mattress

that you told me about, we know that was in your house because later on we found it at the house? A I don't know when the air mattress was -- you

know, I don't know when the air mattress came back to the house or whatever. I just know the day that I found it,

I gave it to the sheriff's department. Q That's fair, but it certainly was in your

house and at the time -A I have -- I don't have knowledge to that

whether it was in the house on the 16th or not. Page 95

CAnthony-rough.txt 24 Q Okay. Well --

25 A Rough Draft - 114

I wasn't looking for it then.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Q A

Certainly -Casey was in and out of the house in June. I

have no idea. Q Did you see Casey -- you say Casey was in and

out of the house, but to your knowledge, I know your husband saw her at one point in time, after June 15, you didn't see her until when? A Q A Q Casey? Yes, ma'am. July the 15th. Okay. And so to your knowledge during that

time period, did she ever say to you, hey, I took the air mattress? A Q A Q No. Never said that? No. Now, again, this would be out of the ordinary

for her to be out of the house for more than two days in a row with Caylee. A Q Correct. Is that correct? All right. And you were

calling Casey from your home phone? A phone. And from -- and the records actually have you I called Casey from my home phone and my cell

25 Q Rough Draft - 115

calling herself different times during this time period; Page 96

CAnthony-rough.txt 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 is that right? A Q Correct. Now, did you ever talk to your granddaughter,

Caylee, after June 16th -- I'm talking on the telephone, did you ever speak to her or talk to her? A Q A Q No. Did you ever hear her in the background? No. And during this time period -- during this

time period, what was your understanding of what Casey was doing? A Q Casey was with friends and she was working. And I'm asking you now, though, as you know

that she was not working because she did not have a job, what was your understanding as we sit here today now of what Casey was doing? A Q A She was with her friends. And what friends were those? From what my understanding is she was with She spent time with Jesse Grund. She

Tony Lazzaro.

spent time with Amy. Q A Right.

She spent time with Ricardo.

And there's several people that she saw during

25 that time. Rough Draft - 116

1 2 3 4 5 6

And I've seen that from the records.

None of

those people saw your granddaughter during that time period, though; is that right? A Q A I don't know if they did or not. To your knowledge? I have no idea. You'd have to ask those I have no --

Page 97

CAnthony-rough.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 people. Q Well, you have read certain parts of the That would be important piece of

police report.

information for not only the police to know but for you to know as to when somebody last saw your granddaughter; is that right? A Q A Q Correct. So as far as -If they're telling the truth. You, however, were talking to your daughter, I

think you said every day. A Q Correct, just about every day. And she would tell you that the child was with

her or the child was with the nanny? A Q A something. Sleeping or something meaning -Not necessarily. What would she tell you? She would tell me that she was sleeping or

25 Q Rough Draft - 117

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

A Q A whatever. Q went on? A

Yeah. Meaning that the child was sleeping where? I didn't ask her. Taking a nap, you know, or

Did it cause you concern, though, as the time

Yeah, I missed my granddaughter.

I had never

gone more than 24 hours without seeing Caylee. Q Let me ask you, though, what in your mind was

the reason why now on June 15th now we've got an extended period of time where you're not seeing Caylee? Page 98 What in

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt your mind was the reason for that? A In my mind at that time was everything that

Casey told me that she was doing. Q A Meaning that she said she was working? She said she was working. She said she was

spending time with friends. time with Caylee. Q

She said she was spending

And that was totally out of the ordinary,

though, from anything that had happened prior? A It was out of the ordinary but long overdue

because Casey had never taken a vacation since Caylee was born. Casey barely would see her friends. She'd go

months without seeing friends. Well -- okay. If she wanted to take a

25 Q Rough Draft - 118

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

vacation, though, couldn't you and your husband have watched Caylee? A But she wanted to take a vacation with Caylee

is what she told me. Q She said that. She said she wants to take a

vacation with Caylee? A Q A Yes. And she told you that on the phone? At some point, they said they were spending

some time together. Q Did she say she was taking a vacation with

Caylee or she's spending time together? A Q She said she's spending sometime with her. So she said the purpose of her taking the That's

vacations was in fact to spend time with Caylee? what she told you? Page 99

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 119

A Q A Q

CAnthony-rough.txt In essence, yes. Okay. But -Why then would she need a nanny if she wanted Now --

to take a vacation with her daughter? MR. CONWAY: speculative answer. Q I just want to know -MR. CONWAY: Ask her a specific question. You know, you're asking for

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

MR. DILL: objection. A

Make an objection.

Maybe an

I'll answer his question.

Bottom line is what

you -- what you asked me is why would she need a Nancy during that time she's taking a vacation. She wouldn't

need a nanny during that time she took a vacation, but some of the people that she was with were supposed to have been Zanny during that time. Q When you say some of the people she was with What do you mean by

were supposed to have been Zanny? that?

Are you tacking what you're talking about here

with Amy? A Several weeks -- several weeks she told me she

was with Zanny. Q A Q A Q That she was with Zanny herself? Yes. Casey was? Casey and Caylee were with Zanny. So as part of her vacation she was going on

vacation with Caylee and Zanny but Casey with her? A Yes. Page 100

22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt So she told you there were times that Casey That would have

and Caylee and Zanny were all together. been after June 15th, right? Correct.

25 A Rough Draft - 120

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Okay.

So was there a time later on that you

heard that a first version of events that she had dropped off her daughter, Caylee, at the Sawgrass Apartments? Did you hear that? A Q Yes. And that was -- you heard that actually around

June 15th, right? A Q No. I heard that on July 15th. July 15th. So when

I'm sorry, you're right.

she was saying that she was talking to you on the phone and saying that she was with Zanny and her daughter, during that time did you ever talk to your daughter -- I mean, your granddaughter? A Q A Q I already -- I already said that. So you did not? Correct. So during that time when she had been telling

you that she was with -- that Casey was with Zanny and your grandchild, based on what you learned on July 15th, that was not accurate? A Q A Q Correct. Why would she lie to you about that, ma'am? I don't know. And how do you reconcile your belief that

25 there was a Zanny person watching this child with the Rough Draft - 121 Page 101

CAnthony-rough.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A fact you can't answer that question as to why she would lie to you about that? A I don't know that Casey -MR. CONWAY: Just answer the question.

What she told me and what I found out was two I don't know Casey's reasons for She told me she

different things.

telling me except that what she told me.

was protecting Caylee because she's protecting the family. And until this day, I still believe that she's

protecting Caylee and the family. Q Okay. But during the time period when you

were making many calls, and I think you said you spoke to her every day, your daughter was not telling you the truth about where she was in relation to her daughter Caylee; is that fair to say? A Q Correct. Because she was telling you that Zanny was

together but that wasn't accurate or true? A Q A Correct. So -But I don't know when that stopped. I don't

know what day. Q There came a point in time that you and your

husband, I'm sure, got more concerned about it and in

25 fact there was a time that your husband basically saw Rough Draft - 122

1 2 3 4 5

Casey and kind of chased after her -- saw her in the car kind of chased after her. A Did you understand that?

Yeah, and he was wrong on the dates of that.

That was actually in April or May because Caylee was with me when George went after Casey that day so George was -Page 102

CAnthony-rough.txt 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 George was wrong on his dates. Q Was it your understanding that he saw her

during this time period or not? A Q A He saw Casey during the time period. Right. But he never followed Casey. The statement

that he made that he followed Casey on the expressway and when we went through E-PASS it wasn't there. I told him

if you recall the night you that followed Casey, Caylee was with me in the living room because we were sitting coloring when he took off. Q How about the statement that she tried to Was that an

prevent him from getting into the trunk? accurate statement, to your knowledge? A Q I have no idea.

I wasn't there, sir. In

So in April -- let me follow up on that.

April when he saw her and was following her, what was that all about? A You'd have to ask my husband. I mean, you've said to me that that was in

25 Q Rough Draft - 123

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

April so you became aware that it was in April.

What

were the circumstances, to your understanding, as to why he was doing that? MR. CONWAY: I'm going to object to that. It

calls for information that's privilege, marital privilege. Q was made? A What statement? MR. CONWAY: What statement? He's going to have Was anybody else present when the statement

I don't know. Page 103

CAnthony-rough.txt 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 So -Q A Found out -I found out about him going after Casey. What was your understanding why he was going to ask the question. Q Let me ask it this way. Was there any

conflict going on that would have caused your husband to chase around Casey back in April? A Q A Q You'd have to ask George. Are you aware of any? Not that I'm aware of. So does that strike you as odd that George was

chasing Casey in April as opposed to this time period when you were out kind of looking for her? A I found out about that after the fact. Okay?

25 Q Rough Draft - 124

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

after her? MR. CONWAY: A Same objection.

Again, I have no idea. MR. CONWAY: Same objection. But does it strike you as

You have no idea.

odd, then, that he would have been chasing after her if you're not aware of any conflicted? A Q You'd have to ask my husband. All right. Now, as far as the -- Casey trying

to keep him from getting in the trunk of the car, I think you told me that you don't have any information as to whether that happened or not? A I -- I was not present. I never heard that

she kept him -MR. CONWAY: Just yes or no. Page 104

CAnthony-rough.txt 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q No. I have no knowledge of that.

You've seen your husband in the statement,

though, haven't you? A Q A Q No, I haven't read his statement. You haven't read over his statement? No, I haven't. So when he told the police officers about that

and he told the FBI about that, you're not reviewed that or aware of that? No, there is a lot of stuff that I haven't

25 A Rough Draft - 125

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

reviewed. Q So there comes a point in time -- is it fair

to say because we've got the phone records here that there were many, many calls where there were attempts from the Anthony home, from your house, to call Casey during this time period? A Q Correct. And it's also fair to say you're getting more

concerned about Caylee because you haven't seen her in a long period of time? A Q Correct. Now, do you think, in fact, that it's possible

that Casey was fabricating the story about Zanny because she was wanting to stay over at some boy's house or a guy's house? MR. CONWAY: of the question. Q I'm going to object to the form Calls for speculation.

Do you believe that she was fabricating the

story during that time period because her motivation was not to let you know that she was staying with a guy -- at Page 105

CAnthony-rough.txt 21 22 23 24 some guy's house? A No, I think she fabricated the stories because

she didn't have Caylee with her and she knew if she came home without Caylee, there would be a red flag. And that red flag would mean that something

25 Q Rough Draft - 126

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

was probably wrong? A Q Something happened, right. You think that's what her reasoning was for

fabricating the story; is that right? A Correct. >Video is played. So that she would justify

to me why I couldn't talk to Caylee because she knew that if it wasn't a reasonable thing, then I would say where the hell are you? something's wrong? A That's what I just said. You didn't need to I'm coming to pick Caylee up because

make me live through that again.

Thank you very much.

That was a painful time in my life. Q A injury. Ma'am, what I want -No. What you're trying to do is add insult to

You know, I don't need to sit again when I find That was a cruel thing in

out that I've been videotaped.

my life that they did to me, okay, to tape me on a day that I go in there and, you know, and I'm distraught over my granddaughter and everything and it's cruel for you to sit there and make me watch it again. Q Let me ask some questions about it and we Was it your belief when you

won't talk about the video.

made this statement that she was fabricating where she was for some reason? Page 106

CAnthony-rough.txt Rough Draft - 127

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 128

A Q A

I already answered this question. And you believe she was fabricating? I already answered the question. I'm not

answering it again. Q At the time you made that statement though to

the police, you had already heard or already had an understanding that Casey told you that Zenaida other Zanny was threatening your family; is that right? MR. CONWAY: Can you repeat that question?

I'm not even sure what you asked. Q It's not very clear. Do you need a moment? When you made that

As far as -- let me ask this.

statement there about fabrication, you already knew from Casey that Casey told you she was protecting the family because of Zenaida or Zanny, do you remember that? MR. CONWAY: there, Mr. Dill. MR. DILL: That's not what she said on That's not what she said. Make your objection, Brad. Make

your objection and we'll move on. MR. CONWAY: My objection is you're not asking

a question that's relevant to what you just showed her so ask a relevant question. MR. DILL: didn't show her. MR. CONWAY: Ask her a question then. I can ask a question to something I

1 2 3

MR. DILL: BY MR. DILL: Q

Let me just move on.

When you made the statement that you thought Page 107

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt she was fabricating because of the motivation that the red flag and all the stuff you just told me about, you knew at that point in time from your daughter that your daughter was protecting the family and that's why she'd been lying to you; is that right? MR. CONWAY: A Q Yes. So did you believe what your daughter was Yes or no.

telling when you she said that she was lying to you to protect the family or did you believe what you said to the police officers about the fab indication and the reason for that? A Q It's both. It's true. Both things is true.

So she was lying to protect you and also lying

so you wouldn't be upset or find out? A her. Exactly because she knew that I would look for That's exactly what I said. It doesn't change.

It's the same thing. Q you? A I never went looking for Casey until the 15th And you went looking for her, though, didn't

25 of July is the first time I went looking for Casey. Rough Draft - 129

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Okay.

Well, how about on July 3rd, did you

ever go to universal to attempt to pick up Caylee? A Q A I went to Universal. Why -Not. MR. CONWAY: A Q Yes. Why did you go to Universal? Page 108 Yes or no.

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

A Q

CAnthony-rough.txt To go pick up Caylee. Okay. And what was it that motivated you to

go pick up Caylee at Universal? A Q Because Casey told me Caylee was there. And did you come to find out that, obviously,

Casey and Caylee weren't at Universal? A Q A Q A Q A Q Yes. Did that cause you concern? Yes. Did you call the police at that point? No. Why not? Because I still believe my daughter. But did you will find out while you were at

Universal she didn't work there? A No, I did not. How did you go about trying to find her 1234

25 Q Rough Draft - 130

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

did you go -A When I got there I called her and she told me

she was not there so I went home. Q Did she also tell you that she was in

Jacksonville around July 4th? A Q A Q A Q you that? A Yes. If I thought that Caylee was in danger Page 109 Yes. And that turned out to not be true? Correct. So and the reason why in your mind is that -It would have been a red flag. A red flag you to and others if she had told

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt at any point, I would have gone -Q A department. And I understand. -- and called 911 or gone to the sheriff's I already stated that, so you just asked me

a question why I didn't go to the police that day. Q Well, okay. So you didn't think that there

was anything wrong about -- I just want to ask about it? A Caylee. Q That's because Casey was telling you I didn't think there was anything wrong with

everything was fine? Yes.

25 A Rough Draft - 131

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Q A Q

Now, let's go to July 15th. Because Casey didn't want me to worry. Let me fast forward, ma'am, probably in a

different subject to get away from this subject matter right here. There came a point in time -- and we're into the December time period now that police executed a search warrant on your house. certain materials. A They came looking for

Do you remember that in December?

There's two search warrants in December, so

which one we talking about? Q One or both. I just want to direct you to the

December time period to get your mind and memory there. The police came and they executed -- they were looking for certain materials and I don't know what but they came and they executed the search warrant. Did you ever tell one of the police officers who executed the search warrant that you had sent someone Page 110

19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt to look in the woods around Suburban Drive -A Q No, I did not. -- back in -- let me get the question out

because I know you want to answer this. Did you ever tell one of the investigators that you had sent someone to look in the woods around

25 Suburban Drive back in November? Rough Draft - 132

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

A Q A Q

No, I did not. That did not happen? That did not happen. So if that's somewhere in one of the police

report, would you have issue with that? A Q A Q I would have huge issue with that. And you would say that would be a falsity? That would be a bold faced lie. Now, just so I understand, Dominic Casey

during this time period, to your knowledge, was he working for you around November -- working -A Q Dominic Casey's been working for us. Who paid Dominic -- do you know who paid

Dominic Casey? A Q A Q A of it. Q A Q Are you the only two parties to the contract? George is on there too. You and George and Dominic. Page 111 And when was that (Shakes head.) To work for you? Dominic Casey and I have a contract. Okay. And who has that contract? Dominic Casey has a copy Paid Dominic Casey for what?

I have a copy of it.

CAnthony-rough.txt 24 signed? It was signed probably in October but we had a 25 A Rough Draft - 133

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

verbal contract prior to that. Q I understand. Anybody else -- did anybody

else sign the contract? A Q A it too? Q A Q it? A I already stated dom anything has a copy and I Yes. Who? We have Sherry Millstead and did Dennis sign I don't know. I can't ask him.

Who is Sherry Milstead and Dennis? From Kid Finders. It was notarized.

This notarized contract, who has possession of

have a copy. Q A Q A Q He was being retained in your mind to do what? Dominic did whatever we asked him to do. Okay. And what were you asking him to do?

Look for Caylee. Do you know if he was ever given any

information about Zanny or Zenaida Gonzalez? A Q A the time. Q You talked about all the time, but did he ever Yes. When was that? Him and I talked about Zenaida Gonzalez all

25 report to you what his efforts to find Zenaida Gonzalez Rough Draft - 134

1 2

or Zanny were? A There were several, yes, on several occasions. Page 112

CAnthony-rough.txt 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A Q Q And when were those and did he give them to

you in writing? A Q A I don't have anything in writing. What did he tell you? He told me several things. We have a Zenaida

Fernandez-Gonzalez Rivera in Puerto Rico that he had been watching, still watching. Q I see. Okay. So of all of that during that

time -- during this time period when you're talking about Zenaida Gonzalez, did he ever report to you what the leads were he was following up or anything like that? MR. CONWAY: Yes. He did report. Yes. -- report to you? MR. CONWAY: product, privilege. MR. DILL: Clarify so we're here we have a I'm going to object to work What did he -Yes or no.

contract between a private entity, private individual and kid finders and these -A Kid finders, they were just witnesses to the

25 contract. Rough Draft - 135

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Q A

I appreciate -You asked me who else signed the contract.

They're witnesses. Q Thanks for clarifying. That makes it easy.

This is directly between -THE WITNESS: got it wrong. Page 113 I answered his question but he

CAnthony-rough.txt 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Ms. Anthony, I got it fine. MR. DILL: I want to make sure for your

objection, these private citizens have retained a private attorney to work for them and you're -MR. MITNIK: Private investigator dial Dill

private investigator and you're taking the position that there is a privilege that applies that makes it not discoverable in a civil lawsuit about the substance of any conversations or anything else? MR. CONWAY: correct. MR. DILL: MR. CONWAY: MR. DILL: to -- hold on. What is the basis for that. Product, work product. You understand -- I'm not trying I'm not trying to argue here but I Work product means that there is The conversations between them,

want to be clear.

something in pending litigation that's made in

25 anticipation of -- in existing or pending Rough Draft - 136

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

litigation.

Is there existing or pending litigation

against these individuals, the Anthonys that I'm not aware of? MR. CONWAY: MR. DILL: MR. CONWAY: There may be. I want to know or not. You guys are on a fishing

expedition, and a lot of your questions go to what she said and whether she republished defamation so, yes, sir, there is. Not only that. This is an

ongoing investigation and it affects the criminal trial as well as the civil trial. MR. DILL: I understand. Page 114 You're claiming work

CAnthony-rough.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 am. MR. DILL: MR. CONWAY: We'll deal with that later. And to clarify one more thing, product on these conversations -MR. CONWAY: MR. DILL: MR. CONWAY: Yes, yes. -- between the Anthonys. On behalf of my client, yes, I

Shirley Milstead is a witness not a party to the contract. MR. DILL: BY MR. DILL: Q When you said they signed the contract, they It was just between George and I understand that.

25 signed it as witnesses. Rough Draft - 137

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

Cindy and Mr. Casey? A Q They are not parties to the contract. Let me clarify that. There's -- our lawsuit

was filed sometime later.

Was the contract and these

conversations about Zenaida Gonzalez, was that prior to our lawsuit being filed; do you know? A We had a verbal contract. MR. CONWAY: A Q A Q Yes. That was prior to the lawsuit? Yes. How about the written contract. That's before Yes or no.

the lawsuit. filed? A

The conversations before the lawsuit's

We had two written contracts and I can't tell

you the first conversation. Q The conversation, though, when were those? Page 115

CAnthony-rough.txt 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 138 Those were before the lawsuit was filed? A Yes. MR. DILL: privilege? MR. CONWAY: When was the lawsuit filed? I Are you still asserting the

don't know the answer to that. MR. DILL: MR. CONWAY: Let's look back to that. If we can just do time frames, it

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

will make it a lot easier. MR. DILL: BY MR. DILL: Q I'm not going to go through the nine win win We'll come back to it.

call with you, I have it here but I don't want to ask specifically. There were three calls to the police on

the 15th; is that correct? A Q Correct. You had found your daughter Casey at Tony

Lazzaro's apartment? A Q Correct. You had talked to Amy Huizenga and she had

given you the location? A Q Amy took me to the location. She took you to the location. You went in and

there was Casey; is that right? A Q A Q A Q I did not go into the apartment. Did Casey come out at some point? Yes. And did you ask her where Caylee was? Yes. And what did she tell you? Page 116

CAnthony-rough.txt 23 24 A Q With Zanny. And did you say where's Zanny? Yes.

25 A Rough Draft - 139

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 was? okay.

Q A

And what did she tell you? She said she was at her apartment, and I said We're going to go get her.

Q go get her? A Q A Q

And so -- well, did you go to the apartment to

No. Where'd you go? I took her to the police station. Okay. So you took her -- you took her to the Why was it you took her to the police

police station. station? A

Because she didn't take me to the apartment

and I didn't know where she lived. Q And that gave you a concern. Were you driving

the car or was she? A Q I was. And she wouldn't tell you where the department

A Q A Q station? A

Correct. And that caused you concern? Correct. And because of that you took her to the police

Correct. And you told the police officer and called, I

25 Q Rough Draft - 140

Page 117

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt guess, Pershing first -A closed. Q And you called in and you said I have someone I was sitting at Pershing and they were

that needs to be arrested? A Q A take her. Q And then you made another call the second 911 Correct. And -Because I wanted to scare her to having me

call which -A Q Was from the house. -- from the house, and you said that at that You just What was the

point that your daughter had been missing. found her. You need to get a grand threat.

grand threat? A The car is still registered in my name even

though essentially the car was her's, just like when we bought the car, you know, for Lee back in 2000 or whatever when we bought the car. Q So you thought it was grabbed threat because

you had taken the car? A I wanted them to come out and help me so I

said whatever I said to have them come out and help me I was hoping I could go in and talk to a

25 talk to Casey. Rough Draft - 141

1 2 3 4 5

police officer without calling 911, so you wanted my reasoning, I'm telling you. question. Q Okay. That's fair? It was served September 26, 08. Page 118 That's not a yes or no

MR. MITNIK:

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt MR. DILL: September 26, 08. this and we'll go back to that. BY MR. DILL: Q

Let me finish

There's a third call, though, okay, and this

is about after the officers are already on their way, and you say in the call -- I'm sure you remember it. play it but I don't have O -A Q ask you. You don't have to tell me what's in the call. We're not going to do that but I am going to You said my daughter finally admitted to me I could

that somebody took her or Zanny took her. A Q Correct. Tell me the circumstance between that first

call and the second call because there's a time period in between it. What happened? What did she tell you?

Where were you?

How did the conversation -- because I'm Tell me what happened.

sure you remember that. A Q

I can't get into that conversation. Why not? I can't.

25 A Rough Draft - 142

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Q A

And the reason why is what? Number one is I can't remember exactly the Essentially, I asked He asked her.

conversation verbatim what it was.

her -- my son was there when we got home.

She told me she'd take me there the next day, and that wasn't good enough for me. Q A Casey. Right. What --

So finally I I left Lee alone and he talked to And when I was coming back in because the

sheriff's office on the second phone call made it sound Page 119

11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt like they could be -Q A Right. And it took a while? It could be two hours. It was a

Any time.

nonemergency phone call per them. call got more urgent. Q A Q

That's why every phone

So when -- but there's three. When I walked back in -I want to ask about that. In between the time

of the first call when you think they're coming over shortly and the second call, are you saying that Lee talked to her? A Q Yes. And were you present in that room for that

conversation? Not during the whole conversation because I

25 A Rough Draft - 143

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

kept walking outside. garage door open.

I kept hearing a door.

I had the

I kept hearing a car door and every

time I went out there I'd think it was the sheriff's office. Q A Q A Lee. Q A What did she say? I can't remember exactly the words, but I So Lee came in and she told you what? Lee didn't tell me anything. Did Casey tell you something? No. I walked in and overheard Casey telling

heard her saying that it had been 31 days or something that she had seen Caylee. Q point? Page 120 And that caused you again to call back at that

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt Yes, that was -- that was the reason for the

third phone call. Q Right. But when you say she finally admitted,

does that mean after all this time she's admitting now in your mind -A Q A Q That Caylee was missing. That Zanny had taken her? That Zanny had taken her. Now, as you sit here today and everything

25 you've learned and everything you see, do you believe Rough Draft - 144

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

that to be true? A I have no -- I don't -- I have no idea who

had -- who took Caylee. Q But there's one thing we are sure of and that

is that this person, Zenaida Gonzalez, despite what your daughter had said, you don't believe at all that this person had anything to do with it? A Casey never said that this person right here

(indicating). Q A I'm asking you, though, at this point? I never said that that person had anything to

do with Caylee. Q anything -A I never did, no. The first time I saw her So you don't believe this person has

even when her face was blotted out I called Channel 6 news and spoke to Henry Muldanado said, I said what the hell are you doing putting this poor woman on the stand because she's been through enough. You know, the police

department's the one that finger her not Casey and they Page 121

21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt said she came willing down there to talk to her. You know, it would have just -- it would have just all blown away for her if she wouldn't have gone and had her little Channel 6 and then Mr. Morgan parading her

25 all around. Rough Draft - 145

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 not?

Q A Q

I appreciate you want to say all that ma'am -I'm telling you the truth. I'm not asking you those questions, I'm really

I know you're not.

That's okay.

That's okay.

I'm giving you the answer. was her to the point that -Q A

You asked me if I thought it

I didn't say that.

I didn't say that.

You asked me if I thought it was her and if

Casey thought it was her. Q A Q No, I didn't, but -Yes, you did. Let me just clarify. Do you know what? The

good news -- the good news? A You asked me T I thought it was her and Casey

thought it was her and I said no to the point they called the news station and said what are you doing putting her on so I'm going you -- or answering your question. Q Good. Let me ask another question then

because you're answering a question I'm not asking you. A Q argue. A Read back the transcript. Watch it later. But you did ask the question. I don't want to argue. I really don't want to

25 That's why you've got it on video. Rough Draft - 146 Page 122

CAnthony-rough.txt

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q

MR. MORGAN: control?

Brad, Brad, could you get

Brad, please. Get control of him, Mr. Morgan.

THE WITNESS:

This is my question and I'm going to try to In your mind, as you sit here -- as you In your mind,

make it simple.

said before you wanted to clear her name.

this Zenaida Gonzalez has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to your granddaughter? A Q Correct. Okay. And we've already gone through what you

said to the press and what was said earlier back in -back during that time period about your daughter. We

already went through all that, but something you said here -A I never thought she was from today back to

when you filed the frivolous lawsuit to when she went in front of the news to whatever. Q The good news is Ms. Anthony we're almost done

and I promise you that so if you want to talk to the press again and say all these things that's fine but I'm going to ask my questions and we're going to wrap this thing up. Okay? So there came a pointed in time that when Casey came home that she changed the version of event

25 that you understood about Sawgrass Apartments -Rough Draft - 147

1 2 3 4

THE WITNESS: the question.

I'm done.

I've already answered I'm done.

She's not the one.

MR. MORGAN:

Let me just say this for the

record, hold on, Brad. Let me -- let me say this. Page 123

CAnthony-rough.txt 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A THE WITNESS: I'm tired of getting beat up.

He asked me a question and he won't let me finish it. He's just like everybody else. They want to

cut you off when they don't want to hear the answer. MR. CONWAY: MR. MORGAN: All right. Brad, if she's going to walk out,

we're going to move to find her in contempt of court. We've going to be seeking sanctions,

attorneys fees. THE WITNESS: MR. MORGAN: MR. CONWAY: Morgan. MR. MORGAN: We need to mic up. I never agreed Ask me the last question. Ma'am -We're not walking out, Mr.

I don't need to mic anything.

to have a mic on. MR. MORGAN: THE WITNESS: Ma'am. I'm not micking up. Someone

touches me, I'm going to file harassment charges that someone's touching me. I'm not mic'ing up.

25 I'll talk loud enough that your friggin cameras -Rough Draft - 148

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

MR. CONWAY:

Could we take a break, please? Time is 3:53. We'll go off

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: the record.

(A 6-minute recess was had.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: please. Time is 3:59. Stand by one moment, We're back on record.

- - - - EXAMINATION BY MR. MORGAN: Page 124

CAnthony-rough.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q Cindy, there came a time where your private

investigator, Dominic Casey, summoned one of your security people, Mr. Hoover, to his office at 8:00 on a Saturday morning before -- about a month before the body was found. A When did you become aware of that meeting? In Mr. Conway's office. It was -- what day No, the

did we go into your office? 13th or something. Q A Of what month? December. MR. CONWAY:

Was it the 17th?

Approximately, roughly.

It was after we got -- it was the day we got

fingerprinted at Brad's office. Q A And Mr. Casey was with you, then? Yes, and Mr. Hoover. That's the first time they told you that they

25 Q Rough Draft - 149

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

had gone in to the woods? A Q Yeah, Mr. Hoover's the one that told me. And they told you that they'd gone into the

woods based on a tip -A Q A Q A Q A it's Lucas. Q A And who is Jeanette Lucas? She's psychic or medium, whatever she is. Page 125 She Yes. -- that had been received by Mr. Casey? Correct. Did Mr. Casey tell you who gave him that tip? Yes. And who did he say gave him that tip? I'm not sure Jeanette's last name. I think

CAnthony-rough.txt 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rough Draft - 150 had some kind of ability that she sees things and like, you know, visions or whatever. works. Q office? A They -- he told me -- he told me about the And he told you that that day in Brad's I'm not sure how it

time that they went out there, yes, in Brad's office. Q And did they actually tell you they'd been out

there three times? A I -MR. CONWAY: If you could clarify. You keep

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

saying they -Q Dominic Casey and Mr. Hoover, sorry. MR. CONWAY: A Thank you.

I really didn't realize he was out there three

times until I heard it all on the news. Q But the whole time he'd worked for you up

until the day at Brad's office, they had never told you about this tip or about going out on any day? A Q Correct. And when you finally learned about it that day

in Brad's office, what did he tell you? A Q A something. Mr. Hoover is the one, I believe -Mr. Hoover. Is the one I believe brought it up and said I can't recall. That day, you know, I can't That was very emotional

recall exactly what was said. day. Q A Of course.

Because it was two days after we found out Page 126

CAnthony-rough.txt 20 21 22 23 24 that it could possibly be Caylee, and it was the first day it was actually able to go back into my home after we'd been away and found the house ran sacked just before we got there. So it was very emotional. I can't

remember exactly what the words were, but I know they

25 talked -- James told me about a snake that he had seen Rough Draft - 151

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

and -Q A Q A Q A James being? Hoover, Mr. Hoover. Did Mr. Hoover tell you that day -And Mr. Hoover was never employed by us. He was like a volunteer security? He volunteered. He -- I thought he was a

stalker at first. Q from? A Q A Q A Q No. Mr. Hoover never did. Did Mr. Hoover tell you where the tip came

But Mr. Casey told you? Correct. Did Mr. Hoover hear Mr. Casey tell you that? You know, I can't remember. Whoever is telling you about the medium, did

they tell you what the medium had said to Mr. Casey? A Q No. Did you ever hear or understand that the

medium or psychic in conversation with Mr. Casey told Mr. Casey the approximate area where she believed the body was located? A Q I found that out, you know, watching the news. Okay. And did you also find out watching the Page 127

CAnthony-rough.txt 25 news that the medium had said when you walk into the Rough Draft - 152

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

woods here, there will be pavers that -A Q correct? A Q your home? A Our pavers are not the same pavers that they We have Those Correct. Where do you -- who worked with the pavers at I remember pavers. Now, you all have pavers at your home,

found there that were shown in the photographs. peach colored pavers. were 12 by 12. Those pavers were white.

Ours are 16 by 16 and 14 by whatever.

Our pavers are like a peach color. Q A Q So it's your understanding -We've never had white pavers at all. So it's your understanding that the location

that Mr. Casey went to on multiple times did, in fact, turn out to be the area where Caylee was ultimately found? A My understanding, I don't know exactly where

Mr. Okay see went in relation because you can't tell by his pictures with the way it looks now -Q A Q But there on that -- what road did you say? Suburban. But he went to Suburban Road on his visits

25 into the woods, correct? Rough Draft - 153

1 2

A Q

That's what he says. And he did that solely based on his Page 128

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt conversation with this psychic? A Q Correct. Okay. Now, if the psychic didn't tell him If the tip didn't

this, someone else would have, true? come from the psychic, the tip -A

I think the sheriff's department already

established it was the psychic through her phone records and his phone records and she's also come to the sheriff's department and told hem or smoke en with them. So my understanding it is Jeanette because she's already given her records and Dominic's his records voluntarily to Sergeant Allen and Nick Savage to verify that indeed it matches the time on the time stamp of the video that Mr. Hoover took. Q A Q Where does Jeanette live? I think Virginia. Okay. And is it fair to say if it was not the

psychic, that the only other person it could have been would have been someone who had firsthand knowledge of how -A You know, I don't know what to say to that

because from my understanding is they've already

25 confirmed that it was her who he spoke, and he was Rough Draft - 154

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

speaking to her while he was there so that's already been established. Q A So I could not speculate on anything else.

But if that is not in fact the case -I have no idea. I would not want to speculate

on that, sir. Q A Okay. That would be an ongoing investigation. Page 129

8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Q A

CAnthony-rough.txt But just a hypothetical then -I don't do hypotheticals, sir. You can ask me

a question that I can actually answer and I'll answer. Q A The question is if it wasn't the psychic -He didn't find Caylee that day so obviously,

you though -Q A He never found Caylee? No, he didn't, and neither the psychic had a Now, we did work

premonition prior to her being found.

with the psychic before that up until November believed that Caylee was indeed alive. Q Wasn't there a time -- was it the same psychic

or different psychic? A Q It was the same psychic. Okay. So the psychic and you were having

conversations -A I never spoke to the psychic. In fact, I

25 never knew her last name or anything until after the Rough Draft - 155

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

video came out. Q psychic? A Q Dominic was having conversations. And Dominic was telling the psychic what was So Dominic was having conversations with the

going on in the investigation? A No. Dominic -- from my understanding, she

would seek him out when she had a vision. Q Okay. And the questions then is if it was not

the psychic -A There is no question in my mind that it isn't

the psychic because of Dominic's phone records, who he Page 130

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt was speaking with at the time, and his statements to the sheriff's department and his phone records and her phone records coincide with the video. speculation. her. Q Okay. I understand that, but there is -So there is no

There is nothing in my mind that is not

Dominic was speaking to a lot of people? A I'm not aware of that. His phone records

don't show that.

His phone records show that he spoke to

his daughter and to her. Q You're aware that Mr. Hoover believes that the

tip didn't come from the psychic because he didn't

25 believe -Rough Draft - 156

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

Mr. Hoover -- Mr. Hoover can believe what he

wants but if you check Lee's phone records and Dominic, they didn't even speak that day so Mr. Hoover, it's like Mr. Hoover. Mr. Hoover wants to make money off of this I don't believe anything Mr.

like a lot of people. Hoover says.

Mr. Hoover was video taping us getting

fingerprinted and we had no idea in Brad's office and John Allen found out about it because it was on Mr. Whoever's camera when Sergeant Allen confiscated his camera. So I don't believe a dang gone thing that Mr.

Hoover states. Q There was a time where Casey was saying from I feel like

jail or at home I feel like she's close. Caylee is close to home. A Q A

Do you remember that?

I remember what she said. It turned out she was right, wasn't she? Well, people heard that. Page 131

18 19 20 21 22 23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt That's a yes or no? MR. CONWAY: Yes or no.

It turns out that Casey was right when she

said I feel like -A Q A Yes. -- Caylee is close? Yes, and someone probably heard that and put

25 Caylee's body there after the fact. Rough Draft - 157

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

Q A

What does that mean? What does that mean?

Say that again? She wasn 't there when

Dominic was there in November so someone had to put her there. Q A How would Casey know that she was close? She felt -- what she meant by that is what she

explained to me is that she felt that Zanny was still in the area because Zanny told her she'd bring her back to her in 50 days, which was Caylee's birthday. So don't

take stuff out of context and think just because it's said that, you know, that it means anything. Q Well, I think that's part of the problem here

that what is said is -A Part of the problem is number one, again, this

person, this case and why I'm here today and why this lawsuit is here and why I'm here is to state that this person had nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance. Q A Let me focus -You said on TV if I said and if Casey said

that she had nothing to do with it, that's all you wanted. You said that on -- you said that on November

17th with your channel 9 interview that you had here. Page 132

23 24

CAnthony-rough.txt I do want to come mend you.

You know your

dates and page numbers better than anybody? I did my homework before I came here today,

25 A Rough Draft - 158

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

sir. Q had. A

I got prepared for this. You're the most prepared witness I've ever

You know what, sir?

This is -- this is

important to me because this affects -Q A Q A Of course? -- my grand daughter. This affects me. Okay?

What all did you do to prepare for this today? Why did to prepare for this was I watched your I pulled the -- you

interview and I pulled three things. asked for it.

I pulled the Sawgrass Apartments where

someone signed C. Zenaida Gonzale. Q A Where did you get that from? From the discovery. It's page 45. Do you

want a copy of it? Q Are you aware of the day that she filled out

that form at Sawgrass? A Q June the 17th. Isn't that right after the Casey had a fight

with her family -A Q A It is. -- and left the home. She didn't have a fight with me. Go there.

Go there, Mr. Morgan.

She didn't fight with me, sir.

25 No, no, let it go. Rough Draft - 159

Let him look like an ass on the

thing.

Go ahead. Page 133

CAnthony-rough.txt 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A question. Q You said you have prepped to get ready today Q Isn't that the time that Zenaida Gonzalez --

you are aware that this Zenaida Gonzalez was at Sawgrass Apartments, are you not? A Whether or not she was or not, what I'm aware

of is that her signature. Q A You just said -Is that her signature? Did she sign it C --

answer the question. Q A sign that. Whoa. Hold on. You're asking me did she

Answer the question. All right.

You're asking me a question and I

want to verify it. Zenaida Gonzalez? Q A

Did she sign that Sawgrass thing C. She just shook her head yes.

Let me ask you a question. So was your client there -MR. CONWAY: Let him ask the question. Ask the

-- and she, in fact, signed that?

because this is important day for you? A Q Yes. And you said that one of the things that you

did in the preparation was you examined the signature

25 from C. Zenaida Gonzale at Sawgrass Apartments? Rough Draft - 160

1 2 3 4 5 6

A Q

Right, from the discovery. From the discovery. And you said you're here

to clear this Zenaida Gonzalez's name. A Q Correct. Isn't it true, ma'am, that the date that you

examined that signature was on June 17th? Page 134

CAnthony-rough.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A A No. MR. CONWAY: Yes or no.

The date that I examined that signature -The date that she was there? -- was two days ago. You just asked me the

other question. Q document -A Q Yes. -- didn't you find that Zenaida Gonzalez was, When you examined -- when you examined that

in fact, at that Sawgrass apartment on June 17th, 2008? Yes or no? A Q A And I know that's the way you look it. I would not know -I know that's the way you like it. If that's her signature. If that's her If it's not her Is that fair

signature, then the answer is yes.

signature, then the answer is I don't know. to say that? It's more than fair.

25 Q Rough Draft - 161

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

A Q

Okay.

Is that her signature?

And finally, isn't it true that two days

before Zenaida Gonzalez signed that at Sawgrass, that Casey Anthony, your daughter, had had a fight with the family and left the family and didn't return for 30 days and was hanging out at Sawgrass Apartments and would have had a time to see this person at Sawgrass Apartments and would have had a time to talk to people about her visit to Sawgrass Apartments? A No, because we did not have an argument. MR. CONWAY: Yes or no. Page 135

CAnthony-rough.txt 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q No. We did not have an argument on June -Isn't it a fact that

Take the argument out.

even if there's no argument, as you say, and Casey left the home, that during those last -- those two days, that she had the opportunity to go where her friends lived at Sawgrass to hang out at Sawgrass, to sleep at Sawgrass and to see this person pull in and to get information about Zenaida Gonzalez being at the Sawgrass Apartments? A Q A Then she -- then she would have -Yes or no? -- told the sheriff department it was C.

Zenaida Gonzale -Q Yes or no? -- and not Fernandez.

25 A Rough Draft - 162

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Q A Q A Q A

Yes or no? No, no. Okay.

You like it this way.

It's not fair to say.

It's not fair to say. And why is that? Because you're asking me why is that? Because

if you're saying that Casey's accusing her, then on her statement on July 16th, she would have said the nanny was C. Zenaida Gonzale without a Z. on it. Fernandez come in? Q A Casey gave that. Where's the

Let me say this to you. So there you go, Mr. Morgan. Where did she Why

get the Fernandez?

Where did you get the Fernandez?

don't you tell the camera and all the viewers out there where Fernandez came from? It's not on her DMV record.

That's part of our homework too. Page 136

CAnthony-rough.txt 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Q Casey, your daughter -THE WITNESS: 10/1/1968? MR. MORGAN: outrageous. A It's not outrageous. MR. DILL: This is a court proceeding. This is going to Brad, for God's sake. This is What's your date of birth,

This is a court proceeding.

25 be played at a trial at some date. Rough Draft - 163

For your own good,

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

please stop. THE WITNESS: pounding. It hurts. I got it out. Yeah, my chest is

I let it out because he's got Thank you. I'm

to prove it now.

He opened the door. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Morgan. done. Q

Go ahead.

You're going to be thanking me for something

else here in a minute. A Thanking because you opened the door. You

said she signed it that day so now you've got to prove. Q Apartments? A Q I don't know. She had friends at Sawgrass Apartments who Casey, your daughter, was at Sawgrass

lived there, didn't she? A I don't know if they lived there on the 16th

or not or the 17th. Q A Q Okay. Or the 15th?

I don't know. And you don't know if she was visiting friends

there on the 17th, do you? Page 137

CAnthony-rough.txt 22 23 24 A Q No. And so if she was, you wouldn't know one way

or the other? That's correct.

25 A Rough Draft - 164

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Q A Q

So you've come here to clear this woman. Correct. We go all the way back to the beginning.

You've been told that -- by the police officers that your daughter had identified in a lineup or had cleared this woman in a lineup and that she did not -- that this was not the Zenaida Gonzalez. A Q The police told you, correct?

The police told me that, correct. And then you went and met with Casey and she

told you that she had never seen a lineup and she'd never said that wasn't the person, correct? A Q Correct. And then, ma'am, and this is what you're going

to thank me for, and then despite that fact and despite that lie that you knew, you went on TV and you said that this is the person -A Q A Q No, I did not. Ma'am. I did not say that this is the person. We have played -- you went on television

instead of clearing this person's name about you had the opportunity on television to clear this person's name, even though that the police had told you that Casey had told you that this Zenaida Gonzalez was not the person

25 she picked out, you went on TV and did not clear her name Rough Draft - 165 Page 138

CAnthony-rough.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that night, did you? A Q No, because I didn't -Yes or no the way you like it. Yes or no the

way you like it. A No, because I didn't know her name was C.

Zenaida Gonzale or I would have cleared her name. Q A Let's don't play games. I said Zanny. I didn't say C. Zenaida.

What's C. stand for? name. Q

Zenaida is probably her middle

You knew when you went on TV that night that

this woman was not the Zenaida Gonzalez and you did not clear her name, did you? A Q A Q No. Thank you. No. And then, ma'am, in fact, you published the Yes or no? If you dare?

defamation and you slandered this woman yourself in that publication; isn't that true. A No. MR. MORGAN: THE WITNESS: MR. CONWAY: THE WITNESS: That's all I have. Nope. Stop. You've purgered yourself with You slandered me on TV. Yes or no?

25 this because she's not Fernandez. Rough Draft - 166

1 2 3 4

MR. DILL:

Let's go off the video record. There you go. You want to fight

THE WITNESS: it, go for it.

To us, she's Zenaida

Fernandez-Gonzalez. Page 139

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 least.

CAnthony-rough.txt THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Time is 4:17. the record. THE WITNESS: MR. MORGAN: MR. CONWAY: Prove it. I have. I have.

We'll go off

Do you know something?

This is

completely out of hand. THE WITNESS: Because if we were in a

courtroom, the judge wouldn't have let you talk to me that way either. MR. MORGAN: Well, you've told the truth at

THE WITNESS: Morgan.

I always told the truth, Mr.

I went on TV a while ago and said that it

wasn't her. MR. DILL: Off the record.

Page 140